TRIGGERnometry - Lauren Southern： The Internet Breeds Dangerous Ideologies

00:00:00.800 This is something I haven't talked about at all publicly yet, but I've been meaning to for a while.

00:00:05.520 A lot of the internet narratives about how people ought to live their lives,

00:00:09.520 you kind of embodied some of those ideas in your own life and it went spectacularly wrong.

00:00:14.480 It's the reality pill, not the red pill, not the blue pill, not any of these things.

00:00:19.280 Towards the end of our marriage, I found a list in my husband's office of every single media

00:00:25.840 figure that had ever written a negative article about me, both right wing and left wing.

00:00:30.320 And I was told that this was a contingency list of people he would contact to hurt my

00:00:34.080 reputation if I disobeyed in the marriage.

00:00:37.280 That is arsehole behavior. That's abusive behavior 101.

00:00:41.920 This idea that you have in the red pill community that no matter what the man does,

00:00:45.920 the woman is supposed to, that's not how it's supposed to be.

00:00:50.480 Lauren Southern, welcome to Trigonometry.

00:00:52.240 Thanks for having me.

00:00:53.120 It's great to have you on.

00:00:54.720 Before we started, you were saying that you have some things to get off your chest,

00:00:57.600 some things you want to say,

00:00:59.040 and you were looking for a right space that was kind of sensible and reasonable.

00:01:03.840 Here you are. This is that space, despite what people may say.

00:01:08.240 Yeah, I mean...

00:01:09.520 Tell us your story.

00:01:10.960 Depending on who you ask, I'm a very far-right Nazi that's killed a lot of immigrants in the

00:01:15.360 Mediterranean, or I'm a far-left, traitor, feminist. So I figured this is a space where I can

00:01:21.680 actually just be a complex, nuanced human talking to you guys.

00:01:24.560 Awesome.

00:01:24.720 You have a variety of personalities on.

00:01:26.880 But my story, you want to start from the very beginning? That's a long story.

00:01:30.800 Well, I guess to shorten it a little bit, there was a period in which you genuinely,

00:01:34.800 I would argue, were far-right. You were campaigning and you were trying to stop the

00:01:38.240 boats in the Mediterranean. And people would see that, I think, as being on the fringes of the

00:01:42.400 right. Was that a fair characterization, would you say?

00:01:44.240 I would say that I was definitely associated with the farther right side of the spectrum,

00:01:49.920 for sure. But I also think that there's a bit of a memora side around what the 2015-2016

00:01:56.320 political space was and where politics is today. There's been a massive Overton window shift. So

00:02:02.640 myself talking about things like the death of the West is occurring, or West is best,

00:02:07.040 was one of my tours in Australia, got me banned from the country, got me put on watch lists,

00:02:12.400 got massive riots in the streets. And now today, I think you may have just done a speech on the

00:02:17.120 West being the best or the death of the West as well. I don't think there's the same riots today

00:02:21.360 that there were before. It's really disappointing. My audience is so much bigger.

00:02:27.120 So there was even conversations like the Great Replacement, which I know I have gotten a lot of

00:02:32.960 heat for, a lot of flack. Media accused me of causing shootings with just discussing the topic,

00:02:39.840 not even saying this is absolutely happening. Now I'm looking today and I see Tucker Carlson

00:02:44.880 talking about the Great Replacement on Fox News while he was still there, or Ava Vlar doing a speech

00:02:50.640 at CPAC Hungary when just four or five years ago, I was being removed from the docket of CPAC for saying

00:02:57.280 those things. So I think, yes, there were things that I expressed or did in the past that I look and

00:03:04.240 I'm like, that is not how I would have done it today. That is not how I would have said it today.

00:03:08.080 And there are more, there's more nuance to those issues. But I also think that there's a bit of an

00:03:12.960 unfair retrospect going on here where at that time it was way more controversial to say the

00:03:20.240 things that I was saying than it is now. And if I had waited five years, I don't think I would have

00:03:25.040 had the reputation that I have today whatsoever. Do you feel that to some extent, the first man through

00:03:30.480 the breach always takes all the arrows and that you were one of the people who were maybe, as you say,

00:03:36.320 not in the perfect way, but you were trying to raise awareness of certain issues, which at that

00:03:41.040 time were, as you say, very controversial. And we can talk about the Great Replacement because I think

00:03:45.280 different people mean different things by it. And that's where you get into difficulty sometimes.

00:03:50.080 But ultimately, you were talking about mass immigration, you were talking about the self-destruction

00:03:55.280 and the destruction of the West, etc. And those issues are now kind of, they're now being talked about

00:04:01.040 much more openly. But people like you, you feel were punished for raising them at a time when no

00:04:06.800 one else was. Is that kind of what you're saying? Yeah, there's an interesting, a friend of mine

00:04:10.960 always says, it's better to be wrong too late than right too early when you're in media. And that seems

00:04:16.000 to consistently be the case. I'm sure you guys saw the story about mass graves in Canada. Came out a few

00:04:21.840 years ago, Trudeau did tours of all these graves, said the Catholic Church were literally shooting kids and

00:04:27.760 putting them in these graves with thousands of people and bodies were going to be found all

00:04:30.640 over the country. I was a little skeptical of that. I came out, did some stories about,

00:04:35.120 I don't think these bodies actually exist. I don't think we have enough evidence to whip people into

00:04:39.280 a frenzy that's causing dozens, I think 70 churches to be attacked across Canada, some burnt to the

00:04:46.000 ground. Horrific stuff. We should maybe wait a bit. I had local news networks like CTV saying that I was

00:04:53.360 this far right fascist. I was canceled from speaking at my local university, University of

00:04:58.480 British Columbia, told I was basically the equivalent of a Holocaust denier. I had people

00:05:04.160 all over that lived in my community saying I deserve to be scalped, all these things.

00:05:07.840 Two years later, no bodies have been found. They spent $8 million of our tax, tax bucks,

00:05:15.920 digging holes in the ground to find absolutely nothing. And I don't get to clean my reputation from

00:05:22.640 two years ago. Those news hits will still be out. That cancellation still happened.

00:05:26.960 But that's another one of those examples of it's better to be wrong too late than right too early.

00:05:31.520 And so you were on the path and you were very much on the right. So what happened?

00:05:39.680 You know, life is more complex than just right wing or left wing narratives. And a lot of the work that

00:05:46.480 I did throughout my early twenties, I did on the ground. That was kind of what I had. I couldn't be any

00:05:51.840 sort of intellectual because I'm too young to say I've read every book out there. You know,

00:05:56.320 I'm too young to say I have all of the experience, but I could take people on a journey with me

00:06:00.880 on the ground in these places. Okay. What's going on in Morocco? What's going on in Turkey and Europe?

00:06:05.600 My film borderless, I think was one of my first that was

00:06:09.440 criticized by the more far right factions of the internet because the conclusion of it was a

00:06:15.120 borderless Europe isn't good for anyone. I don't think it's good for Europeans, but I also don't think

00:06:19.920 it's good for the migrants because we went on the ground and we talked to these people and I discovered,

00:06:23.920 you know, not every single one of them is an invader saying, let's take Europe. There are

00:06:27.520 people there that genuinely have given up their life savings to human traffickers who promised them

00:06:32.880 these Europeans want you there. Look at their governments. They're saying refugees welcome.

00:06:36.400 They're going to give you a house. They're going to give you a car, a fantastic job. You're going to

00:06:40.560 create a beautiful life for your children. These people throw out their passports, get on these boats,

00:06:45.200 show up in Europe and end up sleeping under bridges, unable to get a job, unable to get

00:06:50.080 citizenship, their lives destroyed. And they're being just as misled by these governments and media

00:06:56.240 propaganda campaigns as Europeans are being hurt by having a bunch of very upset jobless migrants in

00:07:02.160 their streets who quite frankly have nothing else they can do but partake in crime sometimes because

00:07:06.560 they have no way of participating in proper society when they can't speak the language or even get an ID.

00:07:11.040 It's just setting everyone up for failure. But, you know, that's that's a lot more nuanced

00:07:14.880 conversation than just saying, you know, invaders versus Europeans.

00:07:19.840 That is very, very true. But what people seem to want, particularly nowadays, is they want the

00:07:25.520 binary. They don't want the nuance because what the nuance is, is a reality that life is complicated.

00:07:32.000 And you're going to and if you want to understand this topic, you're going to have to do the reading.

00:07:36.800 You're going to have to take the time. It's not as easy just to say from the river to the sea

00:07:41.520 or let's nuke Gaza, which is what you get from, you know, the extremes of the spectrum.

00:07:46.720 And even if you do the reading, as I've learned in my own life, sometimes you actually have to do the

00:07:51.360 living to really learn. It's the reality pill, not the red pill, not the blue pill, not any of these

00:07:57.840 things. It's real life is significantly more complex than any sort of listicle.

00:08:02.720 And well, one of the things that Mary Harrington, she she did a piece with you in Unheard, which

00:08:07.200 was one of the reasons we wanted to talk to you. And one of the things that she was highlighting is

00:08:11.200 effectively that a lot of the Internet narratives about how people ought to live their lives.

00:08:16.720 You know, you have the red pill for men. This is how you should treat women or the right wing type of

00:08:21.440 stuff. And then there's equivalent from sort of radical feminists and whatever. And you from the

00:08:27.280 way she tells it, at least you kind of embodied some of those ideas in your own life. And it went

00:08:32.800 spectacularly wrong. I think it's fair to say. Yes, that is fair to say. Now, there have been

00:08:39.600 criticisms out there that Lauren, you weren't the perfect trad wife. You, you know, you were a boss

00:08:44.640 babe out there working. You didn't get married to someone who lived near you. You didn't you didn't trad

00:08:50.720 perfectly well. And therefore, you aren't the best example to show that these binaries don't work.

00:08:55.680 These binaries do work. You just did it wrong. That's the main criticism I've seen of that Mary

00:08:59.680 Harrington article, which, you know, was was quite emotional for me to do. I was I couldn't have

00:09:06.880 written it myself. I couldn't have published that myself. It would have been too difficult for me to

00:09:10.080 talk about. But I let her do with the information what she will. And one thing I would say to that is,

00:09:16.960 I have thought about this so much. What if I just didn't work at all? What if I married a local boy

00:09:21.840 in my community? What if I didn't date anyone before I dated my husband? What if I followed

00:09:25.920 that trad listicle? Perfect. Would my fate have been any different? Would I not have ended up a

00:09:31.200 single mother? Would I not have ended up divorced or in a bad relationship? And ironically enough,

00:09:36.640 while I was doing that article with Mary, I had a friend over who was staying at my house because

00:09:42.560 she was going through a really bad breakdown and dissolution of her marriage. And 10 years ago,

00:09:47.760 we went to Bible study together as teenagers. And it was kind of like this, the two separate paths.

00:09:54.640 I went on to have a career and travel the world. And she married the nice, handsome boy from Bible

00:09:59.440 study and had a ton of kids and wore sundresses and made sourdough and did everything perfect.

00:10:05.120 And 10 years later, we found ourselves both on a couch talking to Mary Harrington about how we were

00:10:09.280 both divorced and her husband's had left us. So I find, and her husband cheated on her and left

00:10:15.040 her with $100 in her bank account. She doesn't know what she's going to do right now with her life.

00:10:19.520 She did everything perfect, everything based on the manual and the instructions on the internet,

00:10:24.800 right? And what is the manual? What does the manual say you're supposed to do as a traveler?

00:10:28.000 You marry young. You want to marry young, right? Because you want to still be beautiful and have lots

00:10:32.080 and lots of children. You don't sleep with anyone except the one person you marry and they do the same.

00:10:36.720 You likely be a Christian and have faith, which she literally met this man at Bible study, right?

00:10:42.880 You have lots of kids. You don't work as a woman, or if you do, it's just kind of a hobby job. You

00:10:47.680 support your husband's career and you, yeah, just try to be beautiful, loving, supportive,

00:10:54.480 do the chores, build the home. And she did all that. That's what she did. So we went on these two

00:10:58.560 different paths and we found ourselves in the same place afterwards. And I looked at her and I

00:11:05.760 looked at my own situation and the only thing I could come to a conclusion about was that

00:11:13.120 life is very complicated and there is no one size fits all solution for marriage or relationships.

00:11:21.440 And selling it that way can actually make people dig their heels further into bad relationships the way

00:11:28.800 I did. It's, well, I must not be tradding hard enough. I must not be following the listicle hard

00:11:35.040 enough. I must be doing something wrong. And yeah, I'm not a perfect person. I made stupid decisions.

00:11:41.840 That's the one thing I would kind of critique Mary's article for. I think that, you know, I have some

00:11:48.160 blame in making bad decisions myself as well than just being a victim of the internet and the bad advice

00:11:54.320 on the internet as well, but it doesn't help. I'll tell you that much. The bad advice on the internet

00:11:59.360 doesn't help. And what, you know what, when you talk about this, it makes me realize the power of

00:12:05.280 narratives, you know, and we believe these narratives, but that's all they are. It's a narrative.

00:12:11.600 Yeah. You know, and people who say, oh, you've got to be like this.

00:12:15.280 You're no different to the people on the progressive left, the people on the right. You're no different to

00:12:21.680 a religious extremist who goes, if you follow this path, everything will be okay.

00:12:26.480 How do you know that? Oh, absolutely. Exactly. And what's ironic as well is with my girlfriend,

00:12:31.520 I'll call her Ella. She, she was okay with doing the interview, but Mary didn't include it.

00:12:36.720 I think she thought the narratives would be too confusing doing multiple people, but

00:12:42.080 Ella, ironically, despite doing things far more perfect than myself, ended up in a worse position

00:12:48.560 than me because I at least had a career experience work that I could fall back on. I had built up my

00:12:55.600 life outside of that world of just being that support role in my husband's life. So ironically,

00:13:01.440 almost veering off the perfect instruction booklet for how to have a successful marriage put me in a

00:13:07.840 better position than my friends who followed it perfectly. And I need to clarify, I love marriage.

00:13:13.520 I think it's a beautiful thing. I know happy, happy families. I, I am ecstatic when I see people

00:13:19.840 in love and I want that more for the world. But the way we get that is not with these ridiculous binary

00:13:26.160 narratives. It's by being truthful. If you're honest with people about who marriages can go really

00:13:31.680 sideways, even when you do everything right, that helps them prepare for reality that helps them prepare

00:13:37.840 for, you know, making decisions off real information, not TikTok videos of people making sourdough bread.

00:13:45.520 It's absurd.

00:13:46.080 What, why, why did you find this narrative so attractive? Because for me, I mean, one of,

00:13:52.000 one of my, let's call it, you know, the shadow is I'm quite a cynical person and I have to constantly

00:13:57.920 work against that and just fight against it, the negativity, whatever else. So when I'm presented

00:14:03.360 with a narrative, I guess I look at it and go, yeah, that's bollocks. I'm, I was born in 1995. I am

00:14:10.960 a child of the internet. Literally, since I was like three years old, I've been playing computer games,

00:14:16.560 going online from RuneScape to Neopets to Tumblr to Myspace, all of it. And with our parents' generation,

00:14:23.920 they got a lot of their information from real life, their friends' experiences, family's experiences,

00:14:29.600 or at the very least, television shows that everyone was watching so they could all compare

00:14:34.480 the same notes. The internet has created such a fractured existence for my generation. We're

00:14:42.640 all growing up getting most of our information about reality from the web. And then on top of that,

00:14:48.480 we all have a thousand different forums where you can go deeper and deeper and deeper into

00:14:53.760 a thousand different choose your own adventure for ideologies. And this was just,

00:14:58.160 it didn't exist before. This is new. This is a new phenomenon, the amount of fractured information

00:15:03.200 and ideologies and forums that people can go down. And I certainly found myself,

00:15:09.360 given that I grew up in a very more left-wing country, I grew up in a high immigrant area in

00:15:16.720 Vancouver. I found, and I grew up in a family that was more conservative. I found myself naturally

00:15:21.840 attracted to more conservative right-wing spaces on the internet. And this is at a time where

00:15:27.040 when YouTube and all these sites were getting increasingly realizing that having more binary

00:15:34.960 solutions to problems got you far more views than these complex, nuanced three-hour videos explaining

00:15:41.120 the reality of the complexity of life. That just, that doesn't, we all know. We all know that doesn't

00:15:44.960 do well on YouTube. We all know that the most nuanced, most thoughtful conversations,

00:15:50.240 they should do well. They should do more well than they do. But the TikTok video with that hard

00:15:55.920 base dubstep in the background and all the money falling from the screen, you know, all the captions

00:16:00.720 and the guys screaming that's chopped up, that's going to get 6 million views on TikTok compared to

00:16:05.360 the nuanced conversation. It's interesting. I was thinking of what you just said on the way over here

00:16:10.960 because, and I understand why Francis asked the question. I understand exactly why you answered it the

00:16:15.840 way you did because we are like geriatric millennials. We just caught the very end of the millennium.

00:16:21.520 Less of the geriatric.

00:16:22.800 Mate, 42, what can I say? Anyway. And when I see stuff on the internet, when I see people on Twitter

00:16:31.600 saying stuff about relationships, I've been married 20 plus years at this point, right?

00:16:37.840 I just go, well, no one can possibly believe this crap, right? That's what I think when I see stuff

00:16:46.240 on the internet. When I see various influencers talking about how to have a marriage and I just

00:16:53.360 look at it, I just go, no, no, this is insane. No one can possibly believe this and I'll swipe to the

00:16:58.080 next thing. But what I increasingly realized, this may sound like a really stupid thing to say, but

00:17:02.480 increasingly talking to young guys that work with us and all the rest of it is like your generation,

00:17:08.800 that's your reality. You don't have anything to compare it to quite often, unless you have

00:17:14.160 some personal experiences, seeing your parents and stuff like that. People are taking this stuff

00:17:20.000 literally. Oh, absolutely. They are. And I think also the easy solutions come from a generation of

00:17:28.240 young people who did grow up in broken homes in a lot of cases. And they want to think in their head,

00:17:34.960 there is an easy solution to this. This shouldn't be happening. I shouldn't have grown up in a broken

00:17:39.520 home. There should be steps I can take to prevent myself from experiencing this. Or they'll get so

00:17:45.040 bitter about it. They'll say, actually, there are no steps you can take. It is just all women bad,

00:17:51.360 all men bad, marriage shouldn't exist. It's a lot of pain, a lot of pain people have that is coming

00:17:58.800 out in these extraordinarily binary positions. That's a very, very good point. That's a very

00:18:04.000 good point. And I think it's interesting when you were, when you gave your manual for how to be a trad

00:18:08.880 wife, it's not entirely what my wife did because we didn't have kids young, but everything else you

00:18:14.240 said, basically, we got married, she pursued a career that wasn't necessarily that like the center of

00:18:20.080 everything, you know, and she was very supportive with my career. Now we have a son, etc. But the one

00:18:27.360 thing that you didn't mention that was in the article was this idea that the woman is supposed

00:18:31.680 to be submissive. Yes. And I think that's where a lot of this stuff is going wrong because get married

00:18:39.120 young. I think that's great if you found the right person, you know, work hard to be together, all of

00:18:44.400 this other stuff. That can work for a lot of people. Support your husband's career. Traditionally,

00:18:48.880 that has worked, right? If people are staying together and they're working together. But this idea

00:18:54.320 that you're supposed to be submissive to your husband, I think that's maybe where this stuff gets

00:18:59.680 a bit off the rails because a marriage is people working together towards a common goal. It's not one

00:19:05.760 submitting to the other. Yeah, it's definitely not a situation of... I agree with the idea that women and

00:19:12.960 men perhaps have different roles in a relationship. A man cannot give birth to a child or breastfeed.

00:19:18.560 That is controversial. I know, I know. Thanks for demonetizing our video, Laura.

00:19:24.160 And you know, someone walks in the house with a baseball bat, probably going to want the man to

00:19:28.320 go deal with that, right? But those are both equally valuable roles. And if a woman says,

00:19:34.400 for example, in my relationship, I really needed to be near my family when I just gave birth to a baby,

00:19:39.120 I needed that support. It psychologically deeply affects you. You know, you're going to lose your

00:19:45.200 mind and your marriage potentially if you don't have those support systems around you when you

00:19:48.480 just give birth. What within that hardcore trad binary, when my husband said, no, no matter what,

00:19:56.240 we're moving to Australia or I'm going to divorce you, I have to submit at the detriment of probably

00:20:03.360 my own child's well-being, my well-being and our marriage's well-being. That doesn't make sense.

00:20:07.840 That should be a conversation. I perhaps have more knowledge of what myself and the child need in

00:20:12.400 that time that I can contribute than my husband at that time. And he would have had more knowledge

00:20:18.240 in certain areas than me, right? But takes that conversation in equal respect, not just submission.

00:20:24.720 It's interesting that we talk about the submissive aspect of it, because that's a real problem I have

00:20:30.080 with this part of the right which says, everything is bad now. We need to go back to X year. And I

00:20:36.560 just go, that's a cop-out. That's a cop-out. Because what that's actually saying is, I don't have any

00:20:42.160 new ideas. Let's all go back to this time when everything was great. And you're going, everything

00:20:47.120 wasn't great then. And it's not going to happen either. I mean, people are, it's the whole like

00:20:53.600 repeal the 19th crowd right now are the right-wing equivalent of defund the police left.

00:20:58.880 Yeah.

00:20:59.280 It is extraordinarily freakish looking to normal residents of the world. And it's

00:21:04.880 never going to happen. So you look insane and absurd. And like, how is this helping your

00:21:12.320 political cause in any which way when it's just having these delusional conversations on Twitter

00:21:17.200 that make normal people log in and go, well, never want to be associated with those freaks.

00:21:21.600 Like, I don't know what the, I don't know what the approach is there, but.

00:21:25.760 No, it's a very good point because I, when we started this show, it was the left who had gone

00:21:33.200 nutso. And as both of us coming from the left, in particular with me, I just saw the way that this

00:21:41.840 kind of, it just seemed to morph and metastasize into something weird and deeply toxic.

00:21:47.280 And then, although I was never from the right, I used to go, oh, well, at least there was logic to

00:21:53.440 these arguments, even though some of them I didn't agree with. But they were like, come in, welcome,

00:21:58.160 let's talk. And now you just see them go through the same process. It's bizarre. And do you think it's

00:22:05.360 what happens when you isolate yourself? Or is there something else going on here?

00:22:09.680 I think there's a massive audience capture going on within the political sphere, both the right and

00:22:14.400 left. It's interesting because the right wing, I always liked them because they portrayed themselves

00:22:18.560 as an alternative to the media who constantly had money, big money interests, social acceptability,

00:22:25.200 government pressure. We need something outside of that. That's not pressured to have certain opinions.

00:22:30.000 But now a lot of right wing influencers or just influencers on the internet in general,

00:22:35.920 they have no hope of getting a normal job in some cases, particularly if you're on the very far

00:22:41.040 fringes of the right. You couldn't even get a job at a McDonald's. And that's, I don't think society

00:22:44.720 should be that way. I don't like cancel culture, you know, but that's the truth. And I do know people

00:22:49.120 who operate in those spaces who actually don't agree with their audiences at all, but they are stuck.

00:22:53.920 They are trapped because that is the only job they have to do anymore. So they have to keep feeding in

00:22:58.880 the exact same narratives that their audience want to hear. And when their audience say they

00:23:02.800 want to hear something or criticize them or say, I'm going to stop following you because you've

00:23:06.080 shifted your opinion, they adjust. And they are actually just a feedback loop to the audiences they

00:23:11.440 have rather than any sort of original or genuine opinion or thought. And I've even noticed this in

00:23:16.080 the marriage conversation. Like it took me, it took me two years to even say I was divorced publicly.

00:23:22.160 I kept wearing my ring. I know people that are doing this right now that are public figures that

00:23:26.400 haven't been married for years that are socially pretending they are married because it is such a hit

00:23:32.480 to their reputation with the current audience that is inhabiting the right wing space online

00:23:37.600 to say that you failed at marriage, even though talking about that failure, talking about what has

00:23:42.000 happened in the real world will help people. It will help them navigate reality. But instead,

00:23:47.040 we all have these kind of pretend reputations. And this can also be used to hold people hostage.

00:23:51.840 Like I, I had people threatening to expose me for being divorced, you know, to try to ruin me,

00:23:59.680 to try to take me down. And it's crazy how captured people can be by audience opinions.

00:24:04.720 And nothing was more freeing than finally coming out.

00:24:07.760 It's the only way to live. You can't be held hostage to other people's opinions.

00:24:11.840 Yeah. And it's much better to have a smaller YouTube channel, but be true to yourself.

00:24:16.160 Yeah.

00:24:16.720 Than, than to be, I can't, I can't imagine waking up in the morning and going, I hate what I'm about

00:24:21.920 to say. Yeah.

00:24:22.800 That must be awful. That must be absolutely awful. So, uh, but it pains me to hear that because

00:24:29.120 to be honest with you, people accuse a lot of people of audience capture. And sometimes I,

00:24:34.000 I don't know that it's true. Sometimes I think people change their opinion. You know,

00:24:37.920 people change their opinion over time. They listen to certain perspectives and maybe

00:24:41.600 mostly those perspectives or something in some cases, only those perspectives. And they start to

00:24:46.160 kind of, uh, push the boundaries a little bit. But if there are people walking around with wedding

00:24:50.880 rings on that don't represent an actual marriage, that sounds kind of, that sounds horrible.

00:24:55.680 Yeah. Um, and you know what, it, it doesn't even, this is something I haven't talked about

00:25:00.960 at all publicly yet, but I've been meaning to for awhile. It's very,

00:25:04.960 it can be used to control you in more aspects than just the government or just the, um, sorry,

00:25:10.640 it's like really hard for me to talk about. It's more than just the audience stuff. Like part of my

00:25:16.480 marriage that was, it's hard for me to even say abusive. I don't like using the word abusive

00:25:22.000 because it's hard for me to even conceptualize it that way myself, because I very much still,

00:25:26.880 even though horrible things happen, I still care for my husband. Doing that Mary article

00:25:30.480 was very difficult, but there are reasons that I kind of had to talk about it honestly for my own sake.

00:25:35.440 Um, towards the end of our marriage, I found a list in my husband's office while I was cleaning

00:25:43.440 of every single media figure that had ever written a negative article about me,

00:25:48.000 both right wing and left wing. And I was told that this was a contingency list of people he

00:25:53.040 would contact to hurt my reputation if I disobeyed in the marriage. So if I left, if I, any of that,

00:26:00.640 he would contact them and start spreading rumors about me saying that I was a failed trad wife,

00:26:04.960 all of these sorts of things. So, you know, this control mechanism of public reputation can be used

00:26:10.480 in a lot more ways than just this horrific audience capture. I think it's used by governments. I think

00:26:15.280 it's used by abusive spouses. I think it's used, um, as blackmail, corporations, all this kind of

00:26:22.000 stuff. And it's the, the cancel culture of both sides is absolutely ruining our ability to have

00:26:26.800 honest conversations and real relationships. And a lot of people think they ask, why did Lauren do

00:26:32.320 that Mary article? Why would she talk about her marriage so publicly? She could have kept it private.

00:26:36.480 That's private matter. Yeah, I actually thought so for a long time too. It was actually my husband that

00:26:42.000 started messaging influencers, both left-wing and right-wing saying, Lauren's divorced. She's, uh,

00:26:48.880 she's this terrible person before I had even spoken about it publicly. So my hand was kind of forced by

00:26:54.800 this false narrative being spread and being emailed to people behind the scenes a ton for the purpose of

00:27:00.640 destroying me so that I would come back to the relationship. Um, yeah, sorry. And I don't know if

00:27:06.480 that any of that makes sense. It makes perfect sense. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah.

00:27:10.240 And look, this is your ex-husband and I understand how you feel towards him, but that is arsehole

00:27:15.040 behavior. That's like, that's abusive behavior 101 that, you know, using, I mean, I can't describe it

00:27:23.680 any other way and I'm, I'm sorry that I am. No, no, it's okay. But, but, but that's, that's not a way.

00:27:29.600 So the trad life, it comes with two parts, not one part. It's not just about what the woman does.

00:27:33.760 It's also about the way the man behaves and part of the, the male female dynamic is a man

00:27:39.520 is stronger. A man is usually bigger. A man is usually to inflict more damage and

00:27:45.520 civilizing the man and the man's, you know, being responsible with that strength is the number one

00:27:52.160 thing that he's supposed to do. So to, to violate that is a betrayal. It's a betrayal. And I think

00:28:00.960 people need to know that like this idea that you have in the red pill community that, you know,

00:28:06.000 no matter what the man does, the woman is supposed to just, that's not how it's supposed to be.

00:28:10.320 Yeah. Well, that was, what was so interesting to me is I basically, he, he left me and

00:28:17.840 I think when he realized a year later that I was actually moving on, he was very upset by that and

00:28:22.960 started calling me hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times. And when I was like, listen,

00:28:27.760 I'm done, we can go to mediation, have shared, you know, co-parenting, all this stuff, as long

00:28:32.560 as we're going through a proper mediator to do it. Um, I think his, his hope was he could kind of

00:28:38.080 destroy my reputation within mainstream circles. So he started sending a lot of emails to more mainstream

00:28:45.120 kind of left-wing people. She's all right. She's a fake trad wife. She cheated on me. She alienated

00:28:51.840 our child for me. Of course, none of this actually occurred. Um, but a lot of the left-wing, I think

00:28:58.320 more mainstream people didn't bite. In fact, one of the creators that received these emails was

00:29:03.920 Destiny. I think you interviewed him recently. And, uh, instead of his email that he got was you

00:29:09.440 should confront Lauren during one of your live stream debates and drop on her that she's actually

00:29:14.800 a divorced single mother who failed in her marriage and who stole her child and was cheating on her

00:29:20.960 husband. And he reached out to me and was like, this is really like unhinged behavior. Are you okay?

00:29:25.840 Like, how can I, like, can you take this to court? Is there anything you can do about this? And that's

00:29:30.880 how I kind of started to find out about the emails. And when he wouldn't confront me on stream,

00:29:36.480 he kind of gave up on the more mainstream left people and started emailing a ton of right-wing

00:29:41.280 influencers and red pill influencers. And, you know, Lauren stole her child. Lauren cheated on

00:29:47.280 her husband. Lauren did this all from kind of fake accounts. I'm a friend of a friend of his,

00:29:52.800 sometimes from himself. And during this time where I was trying to rebuild my life,

00:29:57.280 figure out how I'm going to talk about the fact that my husband left me. I had all of these people

00:30:02.880 that previously in some cases were friends of me publishing, Lauren's cheated on her husband,

00:30:07.520 Lauren's, you know, alienated her son. So I have people like Pearl Davis tweeting all day about

00:30:12.560 how I've stolen my child and all this kind of stuff, all made up, all invented.

00:30:20.320 If Pearl Davis is having a go at you, you're probably on the right side of things.

00:30:23.600 But for the sole purpose of psychologically tormenting me while I'm the sole carer of my child. And it's

00:30:28.720 incredible. I think that was like a big wake up call for me, seeing these people who,

00:30:32.320 when like left-wingers had a little more critical thinking to say, wow, this is like really weird,

00:30:39.040 unhinged behavior. Whereas these red pill people who purport to understand relationship dynamics,

00:30:44.080 who purport to understand like how males and females act, just man must be correct. Woman must

00:30:51.440 be wrong. Do I need any evidence? No. And a lot of people think I just said all this with no evidence.

00:30:55.760 I have evidence. I have court documents. I have protective orders that judges have gone over and said,

00:31:00.320 this is insane. Like you need a protective order against this person. So like, I don't know the

00:31:06.080 people who are out here criticizing and saying stuff like that. It's really been a shocking wake

00:31:12.080 up call for, I don't think I want anything to do with this space or these people.

00:31:15.680 Do you think part of it is as well, Lauren? Look, the male female thing I accept is a massive part of it.

00:31:21.360 But isn't part of it as well that you're kind of an apostate of the right?

00:31:24.720 How do you mean? So I see a lot of these people as having religious like tendencies,

00:31:32.400 whereby you are part of our tribe. You must believe every part of it, every aspect of it,

00:31:38.080 like hardcore religious people. But the moment you start to not adhere to everything that they say,

00:31:45.360 or perhaps your marriage not going the way that you wanted, all of a sudden, you're not one of us

00:31:52.720 anymore. And therefore, you need to be shunned. You are disgusting, blah, blah, blah. Do you think

00:31:58.240 that is part of it as well?

00:31:59.440 Oh, absolutely. And it's, you know, I think it was extra painful, that betrayal,

00:32:05.040 because I've, you know, these were my own decisions. So I have to, you know, accept the

00:32:11.600 consequences of my own decisions, of course. But I've been banned from multiple countries for

00:32:16.800 upholding the right-wing view. I've, you know, had my name destroyed internationally. I have to use a

00:32:23.200 fake name when I go into places in public a lot of the time. I've been arrested countless times,

00:32:29.600 almost went to jail. In fact, once again, another thing I haven't spoken about publicly when I,

00:32:35.040 part of the reason that I found my husband very attractive is when I was in Turkey, I was facing

00:32:41.120 five years in jail. We got arrested while filming Borderless by the military. And they had put the

00:32:48.480 sheets on our desk. We were going to court the next day. You are facing five years in jail. And

00:32:55.120 I would have been just getting out like now, my life gone. My husband, he, he actually, obviously,

00:33:03.680 there's been talk about him being a fed and having connections with that world. I didn't fully

00:33:07.280 understand it then. And I wasn't dating him at this time. But I, he had done some work for me at

00:33:12.000 that time. And him and another individual that were working on the Borderless film as security and fixers,

00:33:18.720 I didn't realize that they had connections with intelligence agencies, one of them American,

00:33:22.640 the other one Australian, who was my husband, and they were able to get me out of jail, get me out of

00:33:27.600 that situation in Turkey. I don't know exactly the details or how it happened. But the only reason that

00:33:33.200 I'm not just getting out of Turkish jail is because my husband was able to protect me

00:33:36.720 and his friend from that, that situation. So I went up against the entire security apparatus of

00:33:43.680 the Western and non-Western world to say these opinions, then met someone who could protect me

00:33:48.960 from that apparatus and potentially having my life destroyed, ending up in jail. I was banned from the

00:33:54.880 US for two years. And I, yes, I should have prioritized wisdom and patience over that desire for love and

00:34:03.760 security. But we all make stupid gambles in our life. And I chose that, you know, it was amazing

00:34:10.720 that someone was willing to risk their career for me to help me. It was amazing that someone could

00:34:14.320 protect me from this international security apparatus that is literally trying to put me

00:34:18.720 behind bars for these opinions. And then when I'm left and have nothing left, no career, no husband,

00:34:28.080 nothing, the right kicks me while I'm down, or at least the far right factions, you know? So it's

00:34:34.160 like this double betrayal of, did you ever think like maybe a 22 year old girl that was facing years

00:34:40.480 of years in jail, getting arrested and questioned by every Western government for opinions might make

00:34:45.120 some silly decisions and then fail a bit in life because that's pretty psychologically challenging?

00:34:51.200 No, they don't care. You know, you're not, you're worthless to us now because you're a single

00:34:55.280 mother. And I don't want to advocate that kind of ideology, that kind of treachery against anyone.

00:35:00.320 That's because I agree all of those things, but to them, you're not a human being. You're an avatar.

00:35:07.600 You're an avatar. Exactly, exactly. But that's what we all are. That's, that's sadly,

00:35:13.040 it's part of the package. And by the way, this is not to sound lacking compassion. I think

00:35:18.480 what you're experiencing from other people is an extraordinary lack of empathy. And actually,

00:35:22.800 I hear it even in the way that you talk about it, if you don't mind me saying, you're like,

00:35:25.680 my marriage, I failed in my marriage. You didn't fail in your marriage. You're not the first person

00:35:29.520 to marry an arsehole in the history of the world. And I'm serious, right? So like, the idea that

00:35:36.400 the trad life means that you get married to the same person and you stay together no matter what

00:35:42.480 happens is not the reality of what marriage is. Marriage is two people get together in the hope

00:35:48.720 that they can build a life together. And usually, if both sides work hard enough, both sides work

00:35:54.240 hard enough, most things can be resolved within that. But when a marriage gets to the point where

00:35:59.680 a guy is preemptively making lists of people he's going to use to shame you for leaving him,

00:36:05.280 at that point, you're absolutely right to leave. You're absolutely right to leave. So you are

00:36:12.080 experiencing what I think is a lack of empathy. And the reason is, sadly, none of us is human.

00:36:18.320 None of us is human to the people watching this. We're just an avatar on the screen. And people,

00:36:24.880 like Francis said, people want their particular narrative. And I'll give you an example where

00:36:28.640 we did this, right? During COVID, we were very skeptical about, not about COVID itself,

00:36:34.320 we thought it was a serious disease, not least because we had it quite early on. And we were

00:36:40.320 very skeptical of some of the things the governments were pushing, right? And then we got COVID the

00:36:44.880 second time, and it was fucking brutal. It was so bad. And we did a video on our channel in which we

00:36:52.800 talked about how bad it was. And there were a load of people who were very upset with us

00:36:58.080 for talking about the reality of how COVID affected us.

00:37:01.120 Yeah, you have all these people that say, we want reality, we want the truth. But they don't. They

00:37:06.080 want the truth that makes them feel good. They want to be spoon-fed things while someone's yelling,

00:37:10.240 this is the truth that the government's hiding from us. And it's just exactly what you want to hear.

00:37:14.640 Exactly. So part of what you're going through is just the natural reality of being a public figure,

00:37:22.160 to some extent. People don't actually care about you. They care about what you represent to them.

00:37:27.360 But part of it is this very, very dumb, one-dimensional, black and white way of looking

00:37:32.800 at everything. And like Francis was saying, it happens on the left. It's increasingly happening

00:37:38.320 on the right. There's a kind of snowflakery as well. If you don't agree with us, you're going

00:37:42.080 to get cancelled. We're not going to talk to you. You can't come on our show. And I hear this

00:37:46.640 more and more as well. And yeah, I think the way the internet is going, it's kind of worrying,

00:37:54.080 particularly as I increasingly realize what I said earlier, which is like your generation

00:37:58.000 doesn't have anything else. That's scary. And you know what is also very interesting

00:38:04.000 that I'm seeing is when you portray these political ideas as these binaries, and you

00:38:08.960 know, you even pointed it out there, like my mind is even having trouble getting out of it.

00:38:12.320 You're like, you didn't fail in marriage. I'm still repeating those narratives of what life is

00:38:18.080 that I've learned from the internet. And I got to let go of that. But what happens is then when

00:38:22.320 people fail to live up to the ideal, where do you go from there? And most people will. And this is

00:38:26.560 what I'm finding is the main problem with the right is it's like, no forgiveness. You do only fans,

00:38:30.640 you do this, you do that. You are garbage, can never be forgiven. Well, we live in a broken world.

00:38:36.400 And I don't know if you guys are Christian or not, but I think the only political ideology, sorry?

00:38:41.440 I just said we're Muslim actually.

00:38:43.760 Well, it doesn't quite fit with this, but yeah. Can't be Muslim for this, Christian.

00:38:49.440 No, your point is the idea of Christianity, which a lot of people on the right

00:38:54.560 advocate for is that we're all imperfect and we're all due forgiveness.

00:38:58.720 Well, you have to have it. If there isn't a path back to what one deems an acceptable way of life,

00:39:07.440 if there isn't a way to be forgiven, well, then we're all doomed. And that means even the only fans,

00:39:12.960 girls, they have to have a path back because guess what? The whole world is headed into

00:39:17.040 certainly what the right call this degeneracy, this lack of morals, all of that. And when you try to

00:39:22.320 live up to it and you fail and you know that this sect of the internet or the sect of politics is

00:39:27.440 never going to see you the same, never see you as an ally. The only choice you actually have is to go

00:39:32.640 to the left. That's your only choice. That's the only path you have. And I've been fighting against

00:39:36.800 that and fighting to just remain nuanced. Like if it's mass grave stuff, I'm going to call it out.

00:39:41.120 If it's ridiculous red pill ideas, I'm going to call it out. But then, of course, you end up a

00:39:45.760 little politically homeless as I find you guys know well. Yeah, but you've got to be, see, you've

00:39:51.680 got to be comfortable with that, Lauren. Yeah. You've got to be comfortable with being politically

00:39:55.120 homeless. Believe me. They've made it far more uncomfortable to be in a political home than it is

00:40:01.520 to be politically homeless. But it's in our space, it's where anyone

00:40:06.720 who's thinking rationally about these things ends up, right? It's like some of the things that the

00:40:12.000 left has got away with for years are absolutely atrocious and they have to be criticized and they

00:40:16.640 have to be called out. That doesn't mean that the right response is to massively overreact the other

00:40:21.040 way. And if you are smart and sensible as you are, you're going to end up in the middle with everyone

00:40:25.200 hating you, that's just what it is. Welcome. Thank you, thank you. But I've also learned it's

00:40:30.800 much, like, if this had happened five years ago and, you know, I've got accounts that are tweeting

00:40:35.440 out Mary's headline and it's got 10,000 likes, like this dumb whore and whatever, hasn't bothered me

00:40:42.080 almost at all. Yeah, good.

00:40:43.520 The accounts, like, correcting the record on things that I'm like, okay, this is just inaccurate and I

00:40:47.440 think maybe some smart people might have gotten this inaccurate as well. I don't mind doing that,

00:40:51.040 but that kind of stuff, it just, like, these are truly just stupid people. Like,

00:40:57.360 I don't even think it's a left versus right war anymore. It's just stupid versus critically thinking

00:41:02.960 war. And also the reality aspect. If you are basing your life off of internet talking points,

00:41:08.880 you are going to have a bad time in reality. And the amount of people I have met that are massive

00:41:14.000 figures on the internet, you know, showing themselves living at large with the happy family,

00:41:18.880 this and that, that you meet in person and it's like, whoa, what you're portraying online and your

00:41:24.000 reality do not match. I would much rather have people thinking I'm miserable on the internet and

00:41:28.320 be spending my days, you know, swimming in the ocean with my son, having barbecues with my church,

00:41:32.480 you know, having tons of fun, which is what I do spend my days doing, which is why

00:41:36.480 I can shut off my phone, shut off my notifications and go enjoy reality, which is much better,

00:41:42.160 much sweeter than when people thought I had this happy, perfect marriage and I was posting the

00:41:46.960 Instagram photos of, oh, look at me. I won the trad life. Miserable. It was a hell on earth. It was.

00:41:53.520 And it's just about this schism we're having in the world where it's, you got to pick. Are you going

00:41:59.360 to live in reality? Are you going to make your decisions based off of the complexities of the

00:42:03.760 real world? Or are you going to base, are you going to join the matrix, which is the internet? That's

00:42:10.800 what it is. It's all fake. It's all nonsense, which is so funny because you have people that call it

00:42:14.400 the matrix falling, sorry, getting into, but like, there's a lot of false realities being portrayed

00:42:21.440 as waking up online right now. Of course. You know, one of the really interesting things

00:42:25.920 that I found about your journey is, I can't remember where I read this, where you said that

00:42:31.680 you were happier being in a, I think it was in a trailer park, in a very poor community, just you and

00:42:39.840 your, sorry, and your son than you were portraying this happy life where you were together because

00:42:47.520 you had community. Yeah. It's, it's been the strangest thing getting all of these messages

00:42:52.560 from people. My condolences, my condolences, Lauren. I get it. I get the impulse because they read the

00:42:56.560 article and they're like, wow, that was really hard. I wouldn't take back a thing that has happened in

00:43:01.760 my life. I don't know if I would have been able to break myself out of the cognitive dissonance of

00:43:07.840 believing in this kind of hardcore dogmatic red pill stuff if I didn't live it firsthand.

00:43:13.760 And that information that I'm going to be able to pass on to people I love, to my son,

00:43:18.160 that I have used to get, you know, just a more depth and empathy and understanding of humanity,

00:43:23.200 invaluable, invaluable. And then of course the trailer, everyone says I lived in a, I didn't live

00:43:28.320 in a trailer, but it was a trailer park. I lived, I lived in a cabin. It was a nice cabin, but

00:43:33.920 my neighbors did live in trailers. One of them lived in a shed, the coolest people, like so much

00:43:39.280 fun. We would have fires by the river every night. I, you feel lonely. You know, I get out of my

00:43:44.720 cabin and I see, oh, they're having a community fire. I'll bring down my little one. He'll play

00:43:48.320 in the river. We'll all cook smokies together, have some beers, laugh. I had never experienced

00:43:54.640 anything like that in my life. At the top of my career, I was living in this white box in Toronto,

00:43:59.760 you know, living the life or whatever. Spending most of my nights, just typing away on Twitter

00:44:05.440 alone. That wasn't very fun. Yeah. It was, yeah, I did have a lot of fun when I was on tours and going

00:44:10.800 out and getting in trouble. But for the most part, life is what happens in between the big events

00:44:16.320 online. And what are most of these content creators doing in the in-between time that they're not

00:44:20.960 live streaming, that they're not publishing videos or do they have families? I've noticed my big,

00:44:26.800 biggest critics of my marriage and all that. Typically, they either have never had a family

00:44:32.000 in their life, so they don't know how difficult it is and how amazing it is as well to make that

00:44:37.040 happen. Or they're divorced themselves and probably haven't talked about it, or I know haven't talked

00:44:41.360 about it publicly or just glaze over that because they feel they can get away with it. So,

00:44:46.640 no, the reality people are actually living and what is being portrayed online, this should be the most

00:44:52.480 basic point in the world. But it still seems like people don't get it. I think your audience

00:44:57.280 probably get it a little more. But yeah, no, it was a beautiful, wonderful time. And I've left that

00:45:02.480 space. You know, I'm in a much better position materially than I was before. But my spiritual

00:45:10.400 condition today and then was still beautiful, fantastic. It was just about getting into reality.

00:45:17.680 And when was the moment, Lauren? When can you pinpoint that actual moment where you were like,

00:45:23.280 hang on a second?

00:45:26.720 Oh my goodness. Wow. Cognitive dissonance is a difficult thing to do, especially when you've

00:45:33.200 got circular ideology that you've prescribed to. Once again, you have to remember, I destroyed my

00:45:38.880 reputation within the public normal sphere promoting this right-wing stuff. And they're like,

00:45:44.080 farmlands, borderless. I still support it. I think a lot of, I would have, I think if I had

00:45:47.920 portrayed it differently or even waited five years, it would have gone over better. But either way,

00:45:52.560 I definitely had this cognitive dissonance that this whole space, everything they're saying must

00:45:57.920 be correct. I have dedicated my whole life to it. Okay, what am I doing wrong? Women are always the

00:46:03.120 one that's, that lead relationships. They're always the one that are the problem. So I must not be

00:46:08.240 tradding hard enough. I need to trad harder. I need to trad harder. And you just,

00:46:11.680 anytime something bad happens, you have to go in a circular motion. Um, it was a long,

00:46:17.200 it was like little bits of it. My husband leaving me and me begging him to do counseling, begging him

00:46:24.160 to do co-parenting and him saying, no, no interest in that. I need to go start a replacement family.

00:46:29.520 I was like, wait, this isn't what I've heard on the internet. This isn't what is supposed to happen.

00:46:34.400 Men don't do this to women. Right. And then I think going,

00:46:40.720 going to my lawyer and trying to figure out how to rebuild my life from scratch and realizing that

00:46:49.440 I'm going to have to do all of the paperwork in order to move on. Like he wouldn't do any of

00:46:54.000 the paperwork. So I was getting punished on my taxes. I wasn't able to get any money back for having a

00:46:59.360 kid. I was literally getting fined because I couldn't get divorced. He wasn't paying child

00:47:04.640 support or anything. So even though he left me, my lawyer's like, yeah, you have to apply for divorce

00:47:10.800 if you want to move on with your life. Well, that certainly got the wheels going of,

00:47:16.240 wait, do 70% of women initiate divorces or are a lot of women left with the paperwork because a

00:47:22.880 man has to prove that he's paying child support in order to file for divorce when he's left. And I'm

00:47:28.240 like, whoa, a lot of these stats, even the stats, like we got the numbers. They don't really check

00:47:33.440 out when you look at the nuance of what it plays out in the real world as. And it was a long process.

00:47:39.600 And then I think the last nail in the coffin was my friend, Ella, um, her marriage falling apart and

00:47:46.640 a few other of my friends that were kind of living in this life because I still had the cognitive

00:47:50.160 dissonance of you didn't do it right enough. If you had not worked, if you had married a guy

00:47:54.160 locally, if you had all of the critiques that I get online about this, that I swear people think

00:47:59.840 I even thought about this. I've thought about it more than one can possibly imagine. And seeing that,

00:48:04.640 wow, it didn't work out for them either. And they did all of these things, right? I,

00:48:09.760 maybe I was wrong. Maybe I was wrong. And, but it was also very freeing because I'm like,

00:48:16.160 maybe I don't need to blame myself.

00:48:17.680 I, you know, I can, I take responsibility for making poor decisions, but that's also just life.

00:48:24.640 It's complicated. And all you can do is move forward and make better decisions with the

00:48:27.840 information you've got. And it doesn't mean you're a waste of a human being or, you know,

00:48:31.440 I'm a, I'm a single mother. Okay. So what? Like, so effing what? I'm divorced. So what? What now?

00:48:40.160 Okay. I'm nothing to the right. All right. I'll move on and I'll make great films on my own

00:48:43.920 about something I care about. It's not for, I'm not looking to appease anyone who thinks I'm

00:48:50.960 inherently worthless because life is complicated. And also this will pass. People move on from stuff

00:48:59.280 and this will pass for you too. The question I wanted to ask you is to what extent is the appeal

00:49:05.440 of that kind of red pill type of way of looking at relationships, a product of the fact that we've

00:49:11.280 been spoon fed the exact opposite stupidity from feminists for the last 20, 30, 40 years where

00:49:18.720 you're going, that's what you think? What? Like, and so I, I think almost the, the, the stupid

00:49:26.400 reaction is kind of somewhat understandable given the stupid impetus you had in the first place.

00:49:31.360 Yeah. There was a part of me I've had to work on being like, okay, I'm in control of my own

00:49:35.760 decisions. I can't blame everyone else. I, these are, these are factors that I want to talk about because

00:49:40.720 they're real, but I had a lot of bitterness towards feminists for a while because I looked at it and I

00:49:47.840 was like, if only they had done something better than what I witnessed when I was a teenager, if only

00:49:55.840 they weren't running around saying, kill all men. I hate men protesting against rape by running around

00:50:00.960 naked in the street with duct tape on their boobs. Maybe I would have listened to some of their arguments

00:50:04.640 and realized, you know, they're not right about everything, but there are some aspect aspects of

00:50:09.200 marriage that are complex. There are situations where abuse does take place from a man towards

00:50:14.320 a woman. And here are the red flags you can look for here. I wish that they were having a more honest,

00:50:19.440 real conversation when I was younger, or at the very least that the people running the media that

00:50:23.760 were promoting this stuff weren't promoting the most insane incantations of it because it really does

00:50:29.680 hurt people. It hurts people when, you know, the, because I'm looking at my dad, I'm looking at the men

00:50:35.840 I grew up with and I'm like, these are wonderful, great men, wonderful men, not rapists, not trying

00:50:42.480 to kill women or oppress women. So what are these people talking about? Well, if they didn't talk in

00:50:48.800 terms of all men, if they didn't talk in terms of, you know, pussy hat and whatever these like

00:50:54.880 ridiculous protests they did are, and it was a little more intellectual and they actually reached out and

00:50:59.280 tried to talk to the right. Cause that was another thing that didn't happen in 2015, 2016 is the more

00:51:04.960 feminist spheres of the internet. They were simply unwilling to reach out and meet, you know, right

00:51:12.080 wingers where they were at and have proper debates, respectful debates. They wouldn't do it at all.

00:51:15.920 They just discounted them all as idiots, fascists, this, that, and the other. I don't know. I think

00:51:21.600 people discount the idea of winning over the other side totally, and they give up on it, and then they

00:51:27.120 fall into their own dogma and they actually lose a lot of the people that would have been their best

00:51:31.040 audience members that would have been helped the most by hearing some nuance. Well, yeah, when I was

00:51:35.600 on Chris Williamson's show a while back and we were talking about men and women, I said, you know,

00:51:39.120 I remember saying to him that any ideology that wants to push men and women apart, whether that's

00:51:46.560 red pill or incel stuff or whatever, or these forms of feminism, there's different types of feminism as

00:51:53.600 we know. But there are forms of feminism that are just about hating men, the ones that you were

00:51:57.760 talking about. All of this is toxic shit. Yeah. And in the middle is the fact that men and women have

00:52:04.400 had to work together to survive since the very beginning of humanity, and maybe that's what we

00:52:10.240 ought to be focusing on. Yeah. And every man or woman I meet in real life, you know, there's a little

00:52:16.400 meme I saw. It's like, I like the 3am version of people. I like the version of people that at a bar

00:52:21.840 at three in the morning are crying and telling you what they really feel about the world and

00:52:25.120 what they really think. And every single man or woman I've met, no matter how radical they are

00:52:29.680 in either direction, are like, yeah, I just wish I had someone who cared about me. They don't hate

00:52:34.560 women. They actually desperately want a relationship with them and feel that's out of reach. They feel

00:52:39.360 that's impossible. Or they don't hate men, but they feel that that's out of reach. That's impossible.

00:52:43.840 I think a lot of the progressive ideology comes from this as well. They've actually, they look at the

00:52:49.680 trad life stuff and they say, I know that's BS. And in a lot of cases they're right because it's

00:52:54.560 this fake version of what a relationship and marriage is. And they say, I know that's BS.

00:52:58.240 So that's impossible. And I'm not even going to try. I'm going to join OnlyFans. I'm going to,

00:53:02.560 you know, not even believe in traditional marriage or relationship structures whatsoever.

00:53:07.360 And that's what happens when you create these absurdist versions of what reality should be is

00:53:14.480 skeptical people won't believe you and they'll reject it altogether. Whereas if we just approached it

00:53:19.440 and said, yeah, it's complicated, some people fail, it's okay if you do. You pick yourself up,

00:53:23.760 you try to do better, you learn from your mistakes, you realize it's hard, you might need counseling,

00:53:28.800 you might need a community around you, whatever it is. Just real conversations around reality.

00:53:35.440 Do you think part of it, I know this isn't the case for you because you talk

00:53:39.520 going in terms about your father, but do you think part of the problems as well is the

00:53:43.440 fatherlessness in society where normally you would have that male who'd be, you know, a role model,

00:53:49.200 a guiding influence, somebody who stabilizes you when things are going wrong. A lot of people,

00:53:56.320 both women and men, don't have that. So as a result, they get pulled towards this nonsense,

00:54:02.480 whether it's nonsense by the progressive left or it's nonsense by the red pill right.

00:54:07.120 Yeah, absolutely. It's been very interesting for me to experience it firsthand. You know,

00:54:12.400 I think about this a lot with my son and I've worked very hard to get positive male role models

00:54:17.280 in his life from my church and local community. My father is with him right now. They're probably

00:54:22.560 playing water guns in the backyard at the moment. It's so important. But it's very interesting and I

00:54:29.840 think very unhelpful that you have people in the more right wing spheres characterizing this as a

00:54:36.080 single mother problem. It's usually characterized that way. Single mothers are destroying the West,

00:54:40.480 destroying society. It's like, no, they're holding it together by a thread. They're the parent that is

00:54:46.080 staying, at least the ones who, you know, I don't think this whole parental alienation thing is as common

00:54:53.120 as we pretend it is. I think it's a very convenient narrative for some men like my husband who genuinely

00:54:59.040 have rejected co-parenting and tell that to their friends so they don't have to live with the

00:55:03.280 responsibility of what they have done. And if you look at the actual data, once again,

00:55:08.960 90% of cases where men pursue custody, they get it. And in most cases, it's men who don't pursue

00:55:15.760 custody, who aren't interested in it, that this is happening. And it was very shocking for me to

00:55:19.200 learn all these statistics. And there are cases, let me be clear. I have a man that I know that I

00:55:24.480 grew up with, I did classes with, much like my friend Ella, left with three kids and a farm,

00:55:30.080 wife cheated on him, you know, left the kids. Those cases are real, and they are horrific.

00:55:34.240 And my heart goes out, single fathers, just as powerful, amazing as single mothers and holding

00:55:39.360 that society together. But we need to have a conversation of accountability for anyone who

00:55:44.480 is involved in abandoning a child. It's, there needs, there's so much social pressure on women and

00:55:51.520 this, like, you're useless, you're worthless, if you're a single mother, pathetic, you know,

00:55:56.240 used goods, all these different things. I just don't see the same amount of social pressure

00:56:02.400 against men that abandon their kids, especially because they didn't.

00:56:05.760 There's nothing to show for it, you walk out and the amount of girls I found that are like

00:56:09.440 dating a guy and then halfway through dating him find out he has kids that he's left, but he's never

00:56:13.600 mentioned it. There's just not the same kind of social pressure. And I don't even know if social

00:56:18.000 pressure is the answer, because usually shame and that, I don't think it helps that much. I don't,

00:56:22.320 maybe you guys, you guys are men, maybe you have a better answer than I do for why this is occurring,

00:56:26.640 why there isn't this, you know. Shame is definitely the answer.

00:56:31.200 I'm serious. You think so? I'm serious. You had a child, you, how are you abandoning your kids? I don't

00:56:37.840 care what happened in your relationship, you should be there to contribute to the raising that child.

00:56:43.600 Hmm. Whose responsibility is it? We hear all these points from, from the red pill, you know,

00:56:49.600 man is supposed to take responsibility. Okay, take your fucking responsibility then. That's what you

00:56:53.840 signed up for. When you decided to have a child, that's what you signed up for. And if you didn't,

00:56:59.760 you should be shamed. I have no problem shaming people like that. Sorry.

00:57:03.600 End of interview.

00:57:06.080 Yeah. Well, since you asked, yeah. Yeah, no, I wish there, I, I, I don't know all the answers. I don't.

00:57:12.640 This is something I'm still exploring and trying to figure out myself. And, you know, I'm, I'm just

00:57:16.720 in this phase of shift of looking at the data and being like, ooh, this may have been deeply

00:57:21.360 misrepresented in the right wing movement. And I think partially because a lot of the audience

00:57:25.760 are male. And this is, see, I already know everyone's going to think this is like an anti-man rant.

00:57:31.440 It's not, it's a financial incentives rant. It's, there is a financial incentive to appease

00:57:36.320 an audience. If you write for feminist frequency, if you write for Jezebel,

00:57:41.040 your incentive is not going to be writing an article that says, ladies, here's why you're at

00:57:46.480 fault for your relationship failures. Even if there are some things that women need to hear,

00:57:50.160 just like if you are kind of in the red pill spaces, there is absolutely no incentive to tell

00:57:53.920 your audience, man up, you know, take responsibility, stop being a loser. Don't like,

00:58:00.240 women aren't at fault for anything. There's no financial incentive for that. It's this feedback

00:58:03.760 loop of people like to feel good. They want to stagnate where they are. Actual growth,

00:58:08.480 actual growth is hard. It's been very hard for me, taking me years to admit things that I've been

00:58:14.240 wrong about in the past or misunderstood. But there's such a financial incentive to keep feeding

00:58:20.640 people misery. I think it also as well, and let's be, let's be blunt about it.

00:58:24.560 It's a challenge. It's the thing that I have to work on every day as well, because I'm not perfect,

00:58:30.320 sadly, is a lot of people don't want to be adults. Yeah, that's it. You know, we, you know,

00:58:37.920 that we want, we treat kids as adults and adults as kids. That's what we do now. And everybody's so,

00:58:44.880 you know, nobody wants to feel discomfort. Nobody wants to feel challenged. Everybody needs to be

00:58:50.880 made to feel that everything's okay all of the time. That's not how life works. There are going

00:58:57.200 to be times where you're not okay. There are going to be times where you're profoundly uncomfortable.

00:59:02.880 And in fact, the only way to grow is to embrace discomfort. Yeah. And that's just life. I'm sorry.

00:59:10.640 And I just think a lot of people don't want to admit that. And if, and they will do anything

00:59:16.080 to avoid it as well. Yeah. We've all done it. Yeah. Like, like,

00:59:22.640 and that's the biggest temptation of all in life is to blame other people and to say, well,

00:59:27.120 she did this, he did that and whatever. Ultimately, we're all responsible for decisions we make,

00:59:31.920 you know, you, you made decisions, you married this guy, you're responsible for that. Then you left,

00:59:36.160 you're responsible for that too. Like, and he's responsible for the things that he's doing and not

00:59:40.800 doing and ultimately pretending that like, oh, it's okay to leave. No, it's not okay to leave your

00:59:46.480 kids. It's not okay. There's nothing that's okay about that. Uh, whether, whatever, you know,

00:59:51.840 the relationship is the relationship. People don't, adults don't get on. It's not the child's fault. The

00:59:55.840 child didn't have anything to do with it. And as a man, you're supposed to be there. That's what you

01:00:00.080 signed up for. That's what you're supposed to do. Whatever else is going on. Um, is shame the only

01:00:05.920 thing that works? Probably not. A good beating as well. A good beating as well. So you guys really

01:00:11.840 do want to go. You guys are Islamists. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. As long as we get

01:00:17.600 to be a joint caliph. Yeah. And I just can't grow a beard. So that's the reason this, I look like this.

01:00:24.160 No, I could grow a great beard. Anyway, let's not get into this. This is off, off, off, off the, off,

01:00:29.440 off the subject of what we're talking about. Um, but yeah, I just think, um, it's great that we're

01:00:35.120 having this conversation because, uh, I think people need to be honest about stuff and not

01:00:41.200 enough people are. And I, I think it's great that you're here. And I think it's great that you, uh,

01:00:45.600 that you've come out the other side and you're building a new life. And I want to tell you,

01:00:49.200 Lauren, something like with the best advice that anyone's ever, well, there's two bits, but the,

01:00:54.080 the, the second best I would say is this too shall pass all of this stuff. It's, it feels as raw as it

01:01:01.680 does in the moment. And eventually you'll process it. You'll, you'll, you'll have a great life going

01:01:06.960 forward. You'll make great content. Uh, and by the way, you're, you've been humbled.

01:01:11.920 All of us get humbled at points when we, we think, Oh, and it's coming for me. It's coming

01:01:16.400 for Francis coming for all of us. And the great thing about that is you are now a much more nuanced

01:01:21.120 person. The stuff you're going to put out into the world is going to be much more closer to the

01:01:25.360 reality of stuff. And you will, there's an audience out there for that. It may not be the same as,

01:01:30.080 you know, talking about how women ain't shit, but, but, but then it's, it's going to be you

01:01:35.280 though. Yeah. And that's what you really want. Yeah. And I know it's, well, I think this,

01:01:41.520 this has mostly passed. I think this is part of the passing. I'm, I'm very, very grateful for

01:01:46.160 the life I'm living. I'll tell you right now when I don't think people even talk about

01:01:49.920 the physiological effects of lying. And, you know, I know it's not, it's lying by omission,

01:01:55.360 like me not talking about my marriage and continuing to wear my wedding ring. I literally was going

01:01:59.360 gray. You must be lying a lot here. I had two gray streaks going on either side of my head.

01:02:04.800 I couldn't sleep at all, nothing. And it wasn't until I published my long tweet and video saying,

01:02:09.920 you know what, here's the truth. This is the life I'm actually living that I was able to start

01:02:14.000 healing. I stopped graying. I was able to sleep better. My body like incredible, incredible.

01:02:19.600 I actually think it kills you lying. Gabor Mate, I'm sure you've read his book, but yeah,

01:02:24.400 yeah, constantly suppressing truth actually kills you. It actually has a physiognomy effect,

01:02:30.240 so to speak. Well, you know, you were asking me about the tour with Jordan, um, before we started,

01:02:35.520 and this is, this is what he talks about. It's very interesting because he basically talks,

01:02:40.560 whenever anyone asks him about heaven or hell, he always talks about heaven on hell on earth. He

01:02:45.760 doesn't talk about the afterlife. I don't even know if he believes in the afterlife. And what he says is,

01:02:50.800 every time you do things that you know are the wrong thing to do, and lying would be right at the

01:02:56.640 top of the list, especially for Jordan, I think, um, you get closer to your personal hell on earth.

01:03:02.000 Yes. And every time you tell the truth and you act in accordance with your principles and with your

01:03:05.840 values, you get closer to heaven on earth. And so every step, and you know, it's funny,

01:03:11.280 we've been talking about this all week with the guys as well. It's like every single thing that you

01:03:15.600 can do that you know is in line with who you are and who you're supposed to be takes you that little

01:03:20.960 tiny step closer to being in a good place. And it's, it works the other way too. And you stack

01:03:26.400 up those lies long enough, you're going to be in hell. Yeah, no, absolutely. And likewise,

01:03:31.600 the truth. And I think people, you know, it's very interesting. Christians talk a lot about spiritual

01:03:36.480 warfare. And have you ever read Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis? No, no.

01:03:39.600 C.S. Lewis. He's my favorite author. I love C.S. Lewis. But it's a conversation between, you know,

01:03:44.960 demons about how they're going to manipulate a human being. And you look on Twitter and some

01:03:51.520 of the conversation that's going on, and these people literally sound like the demons from Screwtape

01:03:55.440 Letters and the way that they talk and try to manipulate you. Even like the repetitive barking

01:03:59.840 of, you whore, you this, you like talking to anyone, you know, kill yourself. And sometimes I'll click

01:04:05.760 on their accounts and I'll scroll through and I'll be like, what, what is the kind of person that

01:04:09.680 tweets like this? And I found one a few weeks ago. Most of his tweets are just like using every

01:04:16.240 possible slur towards every influencer you could imagine. And then I found a tweet where it was a

01:04:20.320 long rant and he was talking about, I have never felt further from God in my entire life. I feel

01:04:25.600 nothing but hate. I feel nothing but disgust towards everyone. I want everyone around me to suffer.

01:04:30.960 My life is nothing but pain. And like going deep into this man, literally saying, I just want to

01:04:37.200 fully embrace the demon. And whether you believe in, you know, the spiritual, I do, or you don't,

01:04:43.920 there is clearly a psychological poison that people can dip their soul into and be

01:04:51.200 almost entirely lost in. And these people have full access to your brain on the internet. They have full

01:04:56.240 access to try to manipulate you and psychologically move you, which I think brings it into the audience

01:05:00.720 capture. In some cases, when you don't block these people, when you leave them having access to your

01:05:06.400 energy and your psyche, I think it's literally demonic influence. You have just thousands and

01:05:12.720 thousands of these people screeching the most useless, unhelpful lies in your ears. And some

01:05:17.760 people have the audacity to say, haha, you blocked me. I win. I wouldn't let a crackhead scream at me on

01:05:24.320 the street. I'd cross the street and say bye bye. Why would I let a bunch of people on the internet that

01:05:28.000 are acting like crackheads and demons do that? It affects people. Whether you admit it or not,

01:05:33.120 it does. If you admit darkness, then that's what you're going to get in return. And if you admit

01:05:38.160 light, that's what you're going to get. You have to make that choice. What is it that you want to do?

01:05:43.600 We all know that person who walks into a room and they just seem to suck everybody's energy.

01:05:48.640 You don't need it. But you know, it's true. And whether you want to believe in spirituality or

01:05:58.000 not, we all feel it. We're like, ugh, get away from them. Yeah. And I find it very interesting that

01:06:03.040 when you go on and you see a lot of these accounts that are doing this, at least on the right,

01:06:06.000 obviously the left have their own little demons that are, and they kind of portray the same thing,

01:06:09.600 though. You have a lot of the people on the right that put like the Christian cross in their

01:06:13.920 profile and they're like, die, whore. You'll never be forgiven for your sins. I mean, to be fair,

01:06:18.720 like, you know, that was Christianity a few centuries ago. Well, I don't think that was

01:06:23.600 Christianity. Let's not open up a whole... I don't think that's what Christ would have

01:06:29.360 liked very much. Well, you talk about OnlyFans. I mean, Jesus hung out with basically girls who did

01:06:34.960 OnlyFans. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then you have like the left-wing demons that have like,

01:06:39.760 peace, love, unity, and then you're like, kill yourself. Yeah. And these people are, yeah, very,

01:06:45.200 very deeply dark. And you'll never see them in a profile photo. You'll always see fake profile

01:06:51.520 photos because I think, like you said, when you have these people who are energy sucks,

01:06:55.440 who are clearly not taking care of themselves, who hate their lives, when they walk into a room,

01:06:59.600 you can feel it, you can see it. And I think most of the people who behave in this way,

01:07:04.880 it just wouldn't be possible if it wasn't for the shield of the internet. So,

01:07:08.400 much like any sort of great invention, it can be used for great good or great evil depending

01:07:13.120 on the state of humanity. And I think it's really exposing a spiraling humanity psychologically.

01:07:21.360 That wouldn't, it wouldn't be possible to spiral to this level if we had the accountability of

01:07:25.360 actually seeing how people were treating themselves eye to eye, face to face, how people were received in

01:07:30.640 their communities. I know for a fact none of these people could talk like this to my face. None of these

01:07:34.960 people could survive in a community or in real life if they, you know, went out in public.

01:07:39.040 Well, that's why on the internet saying dumb shit, because they don't have that.

01:07:42.480 Listen, it's great to have you on. I think you have a unique opportunity now actually, having

01:07:48.640 been through all of this to start, because see, we talked about this earlier with your generation,

01:07:56.240 like being the first ones to really experience the full glare of the internet without any reality

01:08:02.400 attached. But your story is a good example of how this starts to get balanced out. People like you

01:08:10.160 coming forward and going like, this is what happened, and this is what I thought, and now I think this,

01:08:14.160 and this is why, and blah, blah, blah. You have a unique opportunity now to reach lots of people

01:08:18.560 and kind of get them to realize, you know, you need to go and touch grass every now and again.

01:08:22.080 So, even if that's all you do, it's been, you have an opportunity to do that is what I'm saying.

01:08:28.320 And I hope you take it. Thank you. Yeah, I hope so, too. And I would definitely tell anyone who

01:08:32.880 is watching this, if you're in this limbo right now of, oh, I want to live up to the expectations

01:08:38.480 of this ideology or this group that I've attached myself on the internet, don't. Don't live up to

01:08:45.520 the expectations of what you truly want in the real world, what's going to make you happy, what's going

01:08:51.520 to make your family happy, what's going to build and create and, you know, just bring joy into your

01:08:58.160 life daily and goodness. And none of that has anything to do with what people you've never met

01:09:02.800 say on the internet or ideas that aren't applicable in real life. So, choose the reality pill.

01:09:08.480 And also, one of the things that I find very odd is why anyone would ever take advice from people

01:09:15.600 that aren't successful at the thing that they're advising you about. Like, I wouldn't take marriage

01:09:21.360 advice from a guy who has, I don't know, seven girlfriends or whatever. Like, I'm not, that's,

01:09:26.400 he has nothing to teach me. You know what I mean? So, there are lots of people in your life,

01:09:31.040 I hope, I don't mean you specifically, but just in a person's life where you go, well, you know,

01:09:35.680 uncle, this has a great relationship. Can I go and talk to him about how to do this? Or this guy knows

01:09:41.200 how to use a hammer and I need to hammer something. Like, you wouldn't ask people for advice.

01:09:45.440 Do you know what I mean? You're giving me, I wish I didn't lose this memory by getting so

01:09:50.800 caught up in the internet stuff, but the best man I ever met in my life, one of them,

01:09:55.040 my grandfather. My mother had four sisters and single mother, she was, my grandmother was an orphan

01:10:02.720 from the war and, you know, came to Canada at 16 years old with absolutely nothing and nobody and

01:10:08.320 ended up with four daughters without the fathers involved for the most part. And they were like,

01:10:13.520 literally dumpster diving in trash cans to get food. And my grandfather was a traveling clothing

01:10:19.920 salesman, met them, took all the girls in, was always, I always saw him as grandpa, he was their father,

01:10:27.280 took care of them, absolutely adored my grandmother, Jenny. They got married, you know,

01:10:33.760 adored each other to the very end. And when he died, I remember being, I think I was, I can't

01:10:39.520 remember exactly how old I was, but I was still young, maybe young teenager being in the backyard

01:10:44.400 there and all of the sisters holding hands and my grandma and myself and the grandchildren

01:10:50.240 planting a tree and just being like, we loved and adored this man. And he was the happiest man I ever

01:10:55.520 met, loved music, loved all the, you know, daughters he had. And on the internet, they would have called

01:11:01.280 in like, oh, look at this cock. Like, you know, like what? Look at this guy, he's taking this single

01:11:07.200 mother with four kids, like what? Three daughters, whatever. And no, like the happiest man you would

01:11:13.360 have ever met, the most beautiful, and healing. He actually did something very different than what

01:11:17.360 this modern kind of ridiculous red pill ideology does. He actually healed a family. He taught my mother

01:11:23.120 what love should look like, what a marriage should look like. And in turn, when she got married,

01:11:28.960 she's still with my father. They're happy. You know, he healed a broken chain of family destruction.

01:11:36.240 Can anyone that's advocating all of this, you know, red pill stuff, say that they would have

01:11:41.440 the balls to do that? No, they'd be too scared about their public reputation to actually heal the

01:11:45.600 world and build a family that would love them and be there for them till the day they died. My grandma

01:11:49.040 never forgot him. And she started getting Alzheimer's and she just spoke about him every day, just adored

01:11:55.440 him real love. But no, she would have been, like all the names they would have called her and him.

01:12:00.400 But no, they were truly, truly happy people and healing the world. Kindest people you'd ever met.

01:12:06.160 That's a beautiful, that's a beautiful place to end the interview. Thank you so much for coming on

01:12:10.720 the show, Lauren. The final question is, what's the one thing we're not talking about that we really

01:12:14.880 should be? Before Lauren answers the last question, when the interview is over, make sure you head on

01:12:20.480 over to Locals by clicking the link in the description to see this. How do you deal with

01:12:26.080 the difference of opinion within your sphere? Like for instance, a battle between Ben Shapiro and Candace

01:12:30.800 Owens, your differences with Tim Pool, etc. I technically work at Tenet Media with Dave Rubin.

01:12:36.880 Dave Rubin tweeted out the other day, Hamas wouldn't even rape these cows to a picture of kind of more

01:12:42.240 obese women. And I was, I just put a bunch of question marks below and I'm like, yeah, we do

01:12:45.920 stuff on the same channel, but what the hell is this? Right now I think the main thing that we need

01:12:51.600 to be talking about within the political space is the catastrophe that is audience capture. We need

01:12:57.600 to free the minds that are currently, you know, leading discourse to speak in a way that they actually

01:13:04.080 mean. To tell the truth about their own lives, about reality, and no longer feed into an audience.

01:13:09.360 As you guys said, you like to cull the crazies in your audience every once in a while.

01:13:13.680 Yeah, we said this before we started the interview, but you say we. I don't think it's we. I think the

01:13:18.640 people you're talking about need to recognize that they would much rather live a life that's truthful

01:13:24.080 than make more money. And we've done that from day one. We deliberately piss chunks of our audience

01:13:30.080 off regularly because we're like, you probably don't belong here. And there's great content out there for

01:13:35.520 you talking about how women are shit or men are shit or whatever. You just know what we're going

01:13:39.520 to do. So the people you are talking about to the extent that they're listening to this, man up,

01:13:45.440 strap on a pair. Absolutely. And I can tell you guys are more comfortable having just saying what

01:13:51.120 you think, having an honest conversation. I can feel it when I'm in a room and someone is like,

01:13:54.720 okay, what's the talking point? What's the talking point? Very stressful energy, very

01:13:59.200 got to appease, got to appease, no way to live. But yes, definitely audience capture needs to be

01:14:03.360 talked about. All right. Well, head on over to Locals where we ask Lauren your questions

01:14:07.440 and it's going to be tailored specifically to you exactly how you like it. Yeah. Men are trash,

01:14:11.760 so are women. Everyone's trash. Everyone's trash. I love men. I love women. They're both great. Thanks, guys.

01:14:19.680 Canberra Boy asks, would you tour again with Stefan Molyneux?

TRIGGERnometry - July 10, 2024

Lauren Southern： The Internet Breeds Dangerous Ideologies

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