00:05:33.360If you try and express what you want to say, however reasonable or unreasonable it is, there is a group of people who will shut you down immediately.
00:05:42.680And that made me slightly terrified because, you know, stuff like reason and I don't know what, you know, again, these terribly racist things like the Enlightenment values, you know, are being cast aside and thrown away.
00:05:56.880And then I'm a dad, so, you know, my kids come and shovel it at me sometimes as well.
00:06:01.820And I'm sort of going, OK, I need to document this, how I feel about it and bringing together the thought of presenting quite a negative position, which is, you know, the world's fucked, which is how it feels a bit at the moment.
00:06:15.760But also saying that you can get through that if you if you find somebody or other people that, you know, you can do it together with, I think is what I was trying to do.
00:06:24.520And you said that you feel like you're the only one, a sense, in your industry.
00:06:29.240But don't you think a lot of people probably in your industry feel the same way?
00:06:33.040It's just they're just worried that if they come out and say these things,
00:06:36.140their commercial opportunities, their chance to progress is going to be curtailed.
00:06:40.200Yeah, I mean, I think it's very difficult, isn't it, in our industry.
00:06:46.120Well, we're all, you know, actors especially, and comedians as well,
00:06:50.000and any artist feel that they are quite important in some way, don't they?
00:06:55.580But with this sort of death of religion and all of those things
00:06:59.300and people becoming kind of a religion of one,
00:07:02.880it's like what I think and my feelings and my compassion are so important
00:07:06.200that if you don't agree with me, then my God smites you
00:10:32.520And it reminded me of history class at school and communists, you know, and that which apparently they don't teach at school anymore.
00:10:38.700You mentioned left and right. And I wonder how how much that applies anymore, because, you know, Francis and I, he's old school left.
00:10:46.220I'm very much in the center. I know lots of people on the left who are as concerned about some of this stuff.
00:10:51.800I think left and right is more a conversation about your economic views, about economic policy.
00:10:56.820What I think unites people like us and a lot of the people who watch the show isn't where they're coming at from.
00:11:01.900Do they vote Labour or do they vote Tory or Democrats or Republicans?
00:11:05.620It's much more about are you on board with this woke shit or are you not?
00:11:10.820And I think that's probably where I'm what I'm feeling from you is you are fed up of having that ran down your throat.
00:11:18.600Yeah, I am fed up of it because I think you must express your thoughts to other people and they must be free to express them back.
00:11:25.240And that's how you have, who was it was saying, you know, the way democracy works is that the loser has to accept that it was Rod Little, wasn't it? The loser has to accept that the winner won. And we're now living in this, it is a religion and a sort of cult. I find it terrifying. I think it's really wrong to not allow people to express themselves freely, because it's the beginning of the end if you don't do that.
00:11:49.760What about this idea that it's hate speech and it's inciting violence?
00:11:53.840And if we talk about, you know, diversity or any of these kind of things that are part of this new religion and we say the wrong thing, well, that makes people feel unsafe and uncomfortable and all.
00:15:02.280But when you talk about demonizing groups of people, I think that's really what I feel that we're talking about now is like we seem to live in a society that is, according to these people and this ideology, has never been worse.
00:17:21.940I think Hollywood probably has been sort of run by the kind of, you know, there is a, but America's a largely white country, right?
00:17:28.580You know, so you're making a product for the, for the consumer.
00:17:32.160And as that changes, as the demographic changes, then you get different sorts of films.
00:17:37.700But I think just racially aware is, can be a very difficult thing to cope with because you suddenly are doing that old thing about going, well, where are you from?
00:20:50.160But actually, we were raised with this constant idea of the fact that there was repentance and there was forgiveness.
00:20:56.180But that was done, you know, through prayer and these things.
00:20:59.680And actually, I mean, I don't know where I sit in my faith nowadays.
00:21:02.420But I certainly believe that, at the very least, that's 40,000, 50,000 years' worth of stories being passed generation to generation about what is going to keep a society cohesive and stop people massacring each other.
00:21:20.240And Douglas Murray, again, is right when he says, you know, you're going around in these circles of theology, but there's no out.
00:21:26.520So you can't get out through forgiveness.
00:21:28.660So what happens is the judgment and all of that just escalates and escalates and escalates.
00:21:32.480It's awful and people are terrified of doing anything.
00:21:35.000So now, you know, you've got your you end up with this vast hypocrisy that we all have to put up with from, you know, Prince Harry to, you know, that guy on the top of the train at Canning Town, you know, lecturing someone in his sort of weird middle class way, lecturing a bunch of people that want to get to work on an electric train and feeling justified to do it.
00:21:57.960And, you know, your everyday person sits there and goes,
00:22:01.500I'm not going to engage with this shit because it's crazy.
00:22:05.000Well, as if London transport needed to be made any worse for people.
00:22:09.960And the place to do it as well is not Canning Town.
00:22:13.340I mean, if you want to fight, that's a great place to do it.
00:22:16.160But you can tell the person who decided to do that had never been to Canning Town before.
00:22:20.020And probably didn't like the guy they got to volunteer for it.
00:30:11.760Well, this is a kind of sins of the father bullshit, really, isn't it?
00:30:14.940And the thing that I think the reason we do the show is that both of us have an experience of life outside the comfortable, privileged West.
00:30:25.480France has spent quite a lot of time in Venezuela.
00:30:27.440Once you've seen a bit more of the world, you kind of get a sense that, number one, this is quite an unusual thing that we have here.
00:30:35.260But the other thing about it is, well, you think that if this country hadn't done so well historically, you think the people that we beat in that competition, in that race for success, you think they would have done things differently?
00:30:47.780You think that, let's say, the Muslim world, if it hadn't retreated back to its borders and it continued to expand throughout medieval Europe, you think they wouldn't have had slaves?
00:30:58.740You think they wouldn't have done that?
00:31:00.000I mean, it's just the fact that we were successful.
00:31:03.580Western civilization triumphed in the battle of civilizations.
00:31:07.600Why should you feel guilty about something that people seven generations behind you did?
00:31:13.840There is that concept of when someone does something wrong,
00:31:17.820you know, say someone attacks my brother in the street and scars his face or whatever,
00:31:22.860then, you know, it's just and right that myself and the rest of my family should be upset and angry about it.
00:31:30.000But five generations on, it's just spiteful, isn't it?
00:31:34.220If my great-great-great-grandson is still really pissed off that my brother got attacked, it's just spiteful.
00:31:39.740Forgiveness is a cycle of time as well.
00:31:41.900So this kind of sudden deliverance of all of our history in one fell swoop.
00:31:46.880You know, and you've got kids protesting, well, young students trying to take down statues and Cecil Rhodes and all that stuff.
00:31:54.080It's like, why is that your job to do that?
00:31:57.320because, you know, if you're not careful, in a few generations they'll be putting him back up
00:32:02.420and stringing you a lot up. It's intolerant and it's vile, I think.
00:32:07.600And do you not think as well activism is part of the fact that they want to achieve these small goals
00:32:12.280because, in a sense, again, it's achievable, whereas big things, like, for instance, a housing crisis or whatever else,
00:32:19.760for young people there's a sense of hopelessness around it.
00:32:22.580Well, isn't there a Jewish story about the guy who goes to the rabbi and says, I want to change the world, and he goes, good luck and all that, and he can't change the world, and he goes back and says, well, try and change the town, and then it all goes back to try and change yourself, or try and at least work on yourself.
00:32:38.000But that's a personal responsibility thing, and we're not encouraged in personal responsibility.
00:32:42.640We're told now that we live in a vile, horrible, patriarchal system run by oppressive white men, and we need to overload the whole thing in five minutes.
00:32:51.400and I'm like, okay, this might not end well.
00:55:31.360But actually, I think meaning is exactly where social justice comes in, because we talked about it being a religion.
00:55:38.320And, you know, you and I were talking before we started the interview.
00:55:41.040Human beings, whatever you say, seem to have this void inside of ourselves that can only be filled by devoting yourself to something that is greater than you.
00:55:52.340And as you say, the moment you take religion out of it, something else is going to come and fill that.
00:55:57.900Well, the human. So at least God is something that you can relate to directly yourself that's outside of you.
00:56:06.380Whereas if there is no God in your God, it's dangerous.
00:56:09.960I mean, we just history is littered with people that have done that and it really doesn't turn out well.
00:56:16.660So, you know, given the choice and given the option, I will pray with my kids at night and I will believe beyond myself because it stops me thinking,
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00:57:01.680What I'm grateful for, for the listeners, is that Lawrence looked at France.
00:57:06.460You're not going to do it to a Russian, are you?
00:57:08.460Because the boys are going to come round.
01:01:57.720Yeah. It's a dodgy system, the family court system, because it's private and it's totally anonymous, so you can say whatever you want.
01:02:06.920And I think men within the family court system and the way that we're supported and the fact that we need to look at family breakups as a 50-50 thing,
01:02:18.820where we start together at 50-50 in the best interest of the children, I'd say.
01:02:22.920That's, for me, the important one. Because people don't talk about it.