Libs of TikTok's founder and former co-host of the controversial show "Covid" joins Trigga on the show to talk about how he started the account, why he started it, and what it's all about.
00:01:46.940There was a point where I was out of work and I was kind of stuck at home, trapped.
00:01:52.900And that's when I really started paying attention to what was going on.
00:01:57.160And I had never really followed politics or cared much for it.
00:02:02.380Or, you know, I never did journalism or media or anything like that.
00:02:06.080So, you know, then I started, I'm like realizing there's these people who are making all these decisions for me, keeping me trapped in my home.
00:02:15.700So I started paying attention and I discovered TikTok.
00:02:19.180And it's hard to imagine now, but back then, this was three years ago, no one really knew what it was.
00:04:25.260And I was just like, I thought it was funny.
00:04:27.460And there was no plan to, for it to become this.
00:04:30.880I was just sharing things that I thought were interesting.
00:04:33.000And obviously COVID did end and all, and then all this other content I, I noticed, and I thought I had to share it.
00:04:42.100But when I started sharing that, I, I, I was realizing how important this topic was because so many people felt like I was like speaking for them in a way.
00:05:05.820And they were shocked at what they were seeing.
00:05:08.340And then I come and I'm sharing this content and it kind of, um, like it made them realize that they're not the only ones this is happening to, and that there might be something bigger going on here.
00:05:21.000Um, and it validated their, their feelings, I think.
00:05:23.840So I think that made it also much more popular and people really, really felt connected to, to the content.
00:05:31.500Was there a moment when you were looking through all this content where you were thinking to yourself, this is really wrong, particularly with the gender stuff and education.
00:05:42.680There must've been a moment where you were like, it's almost too much, isn't it?
00:08:54.940A parent got up at a school board meeting to read it.
00:08:57.200And this scenario has played itself out so many times.
00:09:00.000But in this specific school, and I believe it was actually in Florida, this one stuck out to me because he started reading it.
00:09:07.780And then the lawyer for the school board goes, wait, you need to stop because it might be against the law to be reading this out loud because kids are listening to it.
00:09:17.140And it's, like, really graphic and lewd content.
00:09:22.000And, like, they say this, like, unironically.
00:09:24.400Like, so it's okay in the kid's classroom.
00:11:01.440In a lot of schools, it's in the library, and it's available for children to check out.
00:11:06.180But there have been many stories where it was actually an assignment.
00:11:09.420Like, read this book and, you know, write about whatever.
00:11:12.560Or the teacher would read it to the kids in the classroom.
00:11:15.020For the younger grades, there's a lot of books surrounding gender ideology and questioning your identity and trans toddlers and, you know, four-year-olds changing their names and being told that they were assigned the wrong gender at birth.
00:11:41.780Let's talk about how you can, you know, maybe the doctor made a mistake when you were born and you need to go chop off your body parts and use the other bathroom now.
00:12:10.020Yeah, and that's why, I think that's why Libs of TikTok became so popular because every single parent was thinking exactly what you're thinking.
00:12:18.460And they're like, why is nobody talking about this?
00:12:21.720So, and then, like, I come along and, like, here I am and I'm exposing all the stuff that these parents have been seeing.
00:12:27.580And not just that, now people really feel like they can come to me and I can help them share their story.
00:12:32.840Like, I view Libs of TikTok as, like, a platform for the average person who doesn't have a platform and wants to share their story.
00:12:40.140So, I get messages from parents all the time.
00:12:42.840And, again, I can't even post most of it just because there's so much.
00:12:46.600But it's like, I found this book in my kid's classroom.
00:13:16.720So, I always say, like, homeschool your kids.
00:13:21.400Because, so, unfortunately, it is in the private schools also.
00:13:25.260And I've posted so many examples of that.
00:13:27.140I think it's less, but it's still there.
00:13:29.720And I think that, obviously, not everybody could homeschool.
00:13:33.400And if you can't homeschool your kids, you need to stay on top of everything that is happening in that building while your kid is there, even if it's a private school.
00:13:46.020Because the stuff, it's really everywhere.
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00:19:05.720But I think that with enough pressure and with enough parents speaking out about it, then there is change.
00:19:15.460I don't know about prosecutions, but a lot of these teachers are being removed.
00:19:20.600And a lot of the books are being removed.
00:19:23.120I know in Dallas, I helped remove a bunch of really pornographic books.
00:19:29.880I've helped remove books from a lot of states.
00:19:33.500There was one in Georgia recently, in Colorado.
00:19:37.020So I think with enough exposure and enough pressure, then there is action being taken.
00:19:43.920It's a really, really interesting point that you make.
00:19:46.800I guess my concern is that we don't go too far over the other way, where I think it was in Florida that they took away Romeo and Juliet, for instance.
00:19:56.080It was Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, because it featured sex between, I think Juliet is 13 in the play and Romeo is 14.
00:20:04.840And you go, we need to strike a balance here, whereby you get rid of books that are pornographic, but plays like Romeo and Juliet, which are classics that we keep.
00:20:13.580Yeah, I think they, I think there is a balance.
00:20:34.940I guess it's also quite hard to make laws that kind of deal with all this pornographic stuff without sometimes just going, you know, you can misword a law or just be a little bit too broad.
00:20:46.120And then suddenly it can be, it can be used in a way that wasn't intended, I think as well.
00:20:50.700It's also, for instance, as we've seen that more and more with books is where people are saying, well, we need to make these books more safe.
00:20:59.680We need to make sure that they're not, and take out aspects of the book, which are really important.
00:21:05.240So for instance, people say with Roald Dahl books, Roald Dahl was my favourite author when I was a kid.
00:23:02.400And sometimes some of these things aren't pleasant.
00:23:06.180Yeah, I mean, I don't know if anyone's saying not to talk to kids about history.
00:23:10.260I know that was, here in Florida, there was, they were trying to say that DeSantis was trying to, like, ban the teaching of African-American history.
00:23:20.320And it's just not, it's just not true.
00:23:22.280I think, I think a lot of the, a lot of the left's narratives are like, you know, we're trying to restrict information and we're trying to ban books.
00:23:32.960And we're trying to, to, we're not allowing kids to learn accurate history.
00:23:55.400Well, one of the narratives that I find very strange, and I remember having actually quite a robust debate with a progressive friend of mine.
00:24:03.420And she was saying, well, they're banning books.
00:24:05.100And I was like, well, removing something from a school is not the same as banning a book.
00:24:10.220It's like saying, if you don't serve alcohol in school, now you're in favor of prohibition.
00:24:51.940I mean, giving kids porn in school, chopping off kids' body parts because they're confused about their identity, having grown men dress half naked as women and dance provocatively in front of children.
00:25:01.760I mean, these are things that were not controversial a few years ago, and I'm sharing their own views and their own words, and it suddenly became super controversial, and they can't handle seeing it because they know that it's indefensible.
00:25:22.200When you get to that end of the spectrum, it is indefensible, and you're going, this is an absolute lack of common sense.
00:25:28.800But then when we talk about things like sex education, so I used to work in a school in a very deprived part of East London, and I'll tell you a story.
00:25:39.360So we taught sex ed from the age of four, and what that actually meant is going, this is your private parts.
00:25:47.600People shouldn't be able, shouldn't be touching this, for example.
00:25:50.780And the reason we do that is there's a lot of kids who grow up, and they become abused, and they don't know what is happening to them.
00:26:01.120So by, people think sex education means, I'm talking about in a UK context, that you're talking to them about sex, but a large part of it is teaching kids actually how to protect themselves.
00:26:12.060And so I think that's important as well.
00:26:14.780I think that it's important that, you know, we don't sexualize kids, but we also teach kids how to protect themselves and be able to identify when there is abuse happening.
00:26:24.980So I have a controversial view on sex ed.
00:27:19.340I think you're both making good points, actually, because I think what Francis is saying is true, especially for people who are growing up in, you know, single parent households or where they're not getting a huge amount of adult attention from responsible adults.
00:27:31.780On the other hand, I hear what you're saying.
00:27:34.220I mean, if they're teaching them this stuff in school, do you really want this crazy person with blue hair and fake boobs or whatever teaching your kid about, you know, how to?
00:27:42.960And this is why it's a tragedy, because they've really undermined something that's very important, I think.
00:27:47.960So, I guess the question with how controversial you've become that I find interesting is, like, why do you think posting, I just, I don't know why, but I find this really weird, that posting other people's stuff that they themselves posted because they wanted attention on the internet makes you controversial.
00:28:20.720Like, just let me post these TikToks in peace.
00:28:25.420Yeah, I don't, I think, I don't know if it's something about me.
00:28:31.460I'd love to have, I'd love to think that I have a special superpower that just triggers lives.
00:28:36.440Like, and it feels like it's become that.
00:28:38.560Like, I don't even have to post TikToks anymore for them to be triggered.
00:28:41.540I literally just have to say good morning and they lose their minds.
00:28:45.320And do you think it is, I, obviously, you know, there's a, there's a satirical element to the way you called it, lives a tick.
00:28:50.720Do you think it really is anyone on the left?
00:28:53.360Or have you found, I imagine, I'm guessing here, but I imagine there are a lot of parents, just normal people on the center left, who, who may believe in higher taxes than you do.
00:29:03.520And the bigger government than you do, and whatever, they may not be in favor, they may be pro, you know, pro choice or whatever, who still don't want their kids to be taught that they can change their gender at six, right?
00:29:16.120I'm guessing it's not just the libs at this point.
00:29:18.740I imagine this stuff is, you could say, radicalizing a lot of people left and right.
00:29:23.500Oh, yeah. I mean, if my messages are any kind of, like, hint at this movement, then, yeah, I get tons of messages from people.
00:29:33.020They say things like, I always vote a Democrat and I can't do it anymore because this is what they stand for.
00:29:38.620Or, like, I'm a liberal, but I, you know, everything you're doing is amazing. Keep it up.
00:29:44.600I got messages like, I can't follow you or like your stuff because I could get in trouble for my friends.
00:29:48.860But, like, I'm supporting you from behind. Like, I think, and as I said before, this stuff was not controversial a few years ago.
00:29:55.340They went so far to the left and they are losing their own base. They're pushing them to our side.
00:30:02.200It's remarkable, isn't it, that we've gone so far to the extreme.
00:30:08.760Do you think part of it is just simply people are afraid of pushing back on this stuff?
00:30:12.420Because, look, I'm someone from the left, center left, I believe, in socialized healthcare, for example.
00:30:18.860I was a teacher for a long time, you know, in deprived schools.
00:35:56.440I think that's a good point you both make, actually, because in the UK, I think France is 100% right that the reason we've made more progress in the UK is we haven't politicized it in the same way.
00:36:06.420But it's also, your point is good, too, because the left-wing politicians in the UK, they were cowardly, and they would go, yeah, I don't know what a woman is.
00:36:15.080But they didn't push it in the same way that left-wing politicians in this country are pushing it.
00:36:23.700One of the things that also happened with you, which I found interesting, is there's a journalist who's been really going after you, in particular, Taylor Lorenz.
00:36:31.120And she's very determined, and you had a sit-down with her, and you did this thing.
00:36:35.460Like, what do you make of the fact that mainstream journalists are going after you and the way that they're doing it?
00:36:49.900I think at the end of the day, they're doing it for clicks, because the mainstream media is completely dying.
00:36:55.760I mean, even before Elon bought Twitter and really revolutionized journalism, it was already dying, because that's what happens when, for years, you just print lies and bias lies, and you're just totally untrustworthy.
00:37:08.840And then, like, Elon buying Twitter just really escalated that, because now there's, you know, no censorship, and anyone could be a journalist, pretty much, and we could expose their lies in real time, which is amazing.
00:37:22.280So, mainstream media has been going downhill for a long time, and I think they're using me for clicks at this point.
00:37:27.780And that's why I never share their articles, only screenshots.
00:37:59.560I should ask Media Matters, because they're keeping track of everything.
00:38:01.960But their latest numbers, somewhere in, like, I think we're in the 80s already.
00:38:08.860That's how many bomb threats they blamed on me.
00:38:10.880But they're creating this whole narrative that me simply exposing them in their own words is somehow, that somehow makes me responsible for some fake bomb threat that someone might call in.
00:38:26.940And, therefore, I should not be able to post anything.
00:38:29.740And I should just shut down and not expose the child predators, not expose groomers, not expose these really bad actors.
00:38:38.500Because someone based in Indonesia, who is probably hired by the left, might call in a bomb threat.
00:38:46.260Well, and I'm guessing you're not pro-bomb threats, right?