TRIGGERnometry - Mark Normand：＂Stop Taking Comedy Seriously!＂

00:00:00.000 I had a woman once after a show she goes I liked your set but I can't tell if you're right or left

00:00:04.400 and I was like good that's a good thing I'm just being funny I don't know if I want to take this

00:00:10.660 mantle of like truth-saying comedian you're a prophet you got to get out there and say the

00:00:15.820 truth for the people I'm like oh I got like dick jokes that's the other thing that's annoying it's

00:00:20.380 like not only should this stop it should cease to exist yeah you're like well that's a little

00:00:24.000 Trumpy that's a little uh fascist-y or whatever it doesn't feel like it's really about justice

00:00:31.440 as much as it is about the joy of ruining and taking down somebody that's what was the most

00:00:38.660 sinister part of it that's the other ironic thing it's like defund the police but this they're very

00:00:43.000 police-like you know hey don't say this don't do that you got out of line we got to hit you over

00:00:47.360 the head it's very police-like we cater to that one queef who was upset about the wheelchair joke

00:00:53.800 and like I've seen stuff where they're like no fat jokes and a guy's like I'm 400 pounds my whole

00:00:59.320 act is fat jokes you're trying to be progressive and a good guy but you're telling me what I can't

00:01:04.680 say what makes me feel better how I get over my pain this is how I relieve you know I feel better

00:01:10.360 with with the jokes and they're like yeah it's no good and it's like so you're like a dictator

00:01:23.800 hey francis do you like locals i live in london mate so obviously not the only pleasure i get from

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00:01:37.480 door that is good but i wasn't talking about the locals i was talking about our community on locals

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00:02:55.800 go to trigonometry.locals.com and support the show hello and welcome to trigonometry

00:03:04.760 on the road from the usa i'm francis foster i'm constantin kitchen and this is a show for

00:03:10.840 you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people our brilliant guest today

00:03:16.280 from the new york leg of the trip is a fantastic comedian mark normand he's looking around for him

00:03:21.800 welcome to trigonometry brother hey good to be here i said before it looks like the game of clue

00:03:25.800 this is so nice and the chair is great i mean this is a sweet pad yeah well thank you to our anonymous

00:03:32.200 supporter who let us stay here yes and use this space we're big big fans of his he knows who he is

00:03:37.960 jeffrey epstein exactly back from the dead uh but listen man it's good to have you on the show

00:03:45.160 uh you're crushing it at the moment uh you're a brilliant comic for those people in our audience

00:03:49.880 who are not familiar with you who are you how are you where you are what's been your journey through life

00:03:54.120 sure i'm a stand-up comedian out of new york city i've been doing it for 16 years or so i've been

00:04:00.840 on multiple shows and whatnot and uh currently on the road like crazy trying to get an hour together

00:04:07.560 multiple podcasts you've seen me on the rogans the tonight shows you name it netflix and uh it's nice

00:04:13.720 to be here with you chaps this is great i want to have sex with you this place is so uh well

00:04:19.560 francis you take on that it's been a while mark so come on jump on board brother i'll pop that hymen

00:04:27.960 but this place just gets you uh horned up you know i want to get a model in here and do coke

00:04:33.240 off her ass anyway that's enough about our producer it's good man it's good it's lovely to have you on

00:04:39.800 mark so how is it like what what's what's the comedy scene like at the moment how has it been

00:04:45.880 after the craziness of the past few years has it returned to normal i think so yeah i think we're

00:04:51.480 back i think people need comedy i think it's uh it's actually helped comedy because let's be honest

00:04:57.800 you know a lot of shit got weird with the pandemic political and this and that and i think there's a big

00:05:03.880 divide in what the media and news is saying or like when biden comes out and says a thing

00:05:10.120 versus what everyone's actually feeling and i think comedy slid right into that gap and fisted

00:05:16.840 it you know i think a lot of that's why comedy's so popular right now podcasts are so popular yeah

00:05:22.360 because everybody's like this i get you know like listening but when biden's like hey check it out gas

00:05:28.680 prices drop this and that and then you go check and they haven't dropped so you're like well that's

00:05:33.160 weird then a comic goes out there and he's like hey these gas prices are higher than hunter biden

00:05:37.080 it's like yeah yeah that's true and uh i think that's where comedy and podcast slid in and that's

00:05:42.920 why they're so popular yeah yeah and and look there's a lot of people talking about this particularly

00:05:48.600 in the uk there's a problem like you know with freedom in speech and comedy you can say this but

00:05:53.880 you can't say this if you make this joke you're going to be cancelled yeah you know you're someone

00:05:57.880 like who's doing phenomenally well what's your take on all this well i think it's uh a little bit

00:06:03.720 of a bummer you know because there's two there's two camps one like an andrew schultz you know funny

00:06:10.760 guy comedian he's like this all this outrage is great because then we get to say crazy shit

00:06:16.920 and everybody loves it and it's hugely popular and you make a bunch of money which is true but

00:06:23.320 when it gets scary is when we have this society set up where nowadays bigot being called a bigot is

00:06:30.760 like the worst thing you'd be called and you could lose your job or or some kind of whatever

00:06:35.480 ostracize from society be labeled and then you become radioactive so i hate when they go hey you

00:06:42.040 can say whatever you want i get to say whatever i want that's free speech i'm like yeah i get it but

00:06:46.760 i was making a joke about gay people or whatever and from no place of hate just whatever and then you

00:06:53.400 call me a homophobe but you don't know me so i was making a joke you're directly attacking me and

00:07:00.920 casting these uh you know bigoted things onto me that i'm not so it's not really the same so you're

00:07:08.520 kind of trying to ruin my life where i was making a joke and then you're the hero you're the good guy

00:07:13.800 at the end of this like this dude or lady comedian is like losing their job and

00:07:17.880 you get homophobic and you're like but that's just what you assumed and you don't even know me

00:07:25.160 so that part is where i get pissed yeah and it's there's this remarkable thing that's happened in

00:07:30.920 the last few years where people take jokes and take them as literal statements of fact it's crazy

00:07:37.480 morgan murphy funny comedian she tweeted once before twitter i didn't know my jokes had answers

00:07:42.120 and that sums it all up you know you're like yeah yeah and then bill burr has that great moment he's

00:07:47.880 on a morning show and they saw his show last night and they're questioning i'm like yeah i gotta say

00:07:52.840 didn't you think the uh catholic joke pedophile jokes were uh a little far and he goes don't

00:07:58.440 you think the priest went a little too far it's like you're attacking the guy making the joke not

00:08:02.040 the guy diddling right and that's where we're at yeah well we've sort of bought into this idea that

00:08:07.720 words are like really important yes yes and actions you know actually like if you're if you're

00:08:13.960 attacking people and trying to end their careers because they said some words you're the fucking

00:08:18.520 good guy right hey right well it's very easy to attack through your computer and i actually have

00:08:23.640 to do anything yeah and it's like uh it's like the wnba it's so unfair it's sexist and you're like

00:08:29.320 well then go to the games go support them but you'd rather bitch and moan about how everybody's evil

00:08:35.400 uh except for you so uh yeah i think you made an interesting point before we started though which

00:08:40.520 was you actually feel completely free to say what you think on stage with a microphone yeah it's once

00:08:46.520 you get on social media yes that actually your freedom is restricted yeah yeah because you know

00:08:52.120 they some guy or gal owns instagram so it's up to them it's a private thing which also gets murky

00:08:59.400 because they're like hey uh trump or marjorie taylor green you're off twitter you're you're causing

00:09:04.920 whatever your your opinions are damaging or mean so you're off twitter and everybody goes well that's

00:09:10.280 fucked up what happened to free speech and they go well it's a private company they can do whatever

00:09:13.720 they want like we'll tell that to the bakery that wouldn't sell a gay cake how come they can't do what

00:09:18.760 they want you know and i'm not saying you shouldn't sell a gay cake but i'm saying you got mad at them

00:09:23.640 and so now they're mad at you basically you're both the same and you don't even realize that you're

00:09:28.120 mirroring each other and you're fucking extremists and uh you know it's i think it's a big cause of

00:09:34.680 modernity we we have so much now you know like we used to be scared we used to have raids in uh

00:09:41.080 classrooms where they'd play this noise and then you all got onto your desk because the russians might

00:09:45.560 be bombing when that's going on you're not worried about pronouns you know you're like

00:09:50.120 shit we could be bombed right now and now we have shooters and we're still like can you believe that

00:09:55.960 he said retard in 1978 we just it's just we got it pretty good now we got uber eats yeah just sit

00:10:03.240 at home and get food delivered and shoved in our fat faces and so we're like hmm i i need something i

00:10:09.080 need to like get my blood pumping hey this guy uh is in blackface in the 40s you know sorry i'm rambling

00:10:16.040 no the rambling is good okay yeah no it's i i think there's there's a lot to be said for that

00:10:22.520 the fact that you know people get upset by jokes yeah like well before the pandemic i was doing

00:10:30.040 you know gigging six nights a week on the london circuit doing all these big clubs and i remember

00:10:35.400 like i started to get curious about all of this stuff and i remember asking all the club owners

00:10:40.840 in london going have complaints gone up every single one of them said yes by a huge amount that's

00:10:47.960 interesting you know what has happened that people listen to a joke and suddenly go not only do i not

00:10:55.160 like it which is your right it's your right not to laugh absolutely it is but it's also their right

00:11:01.640 to go and demand that that person not be booked again at a club or not have or just not say that

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00:11:35.800 wells theater get tickets at mirvish.com right right yeah that's the other thing that's annoying

00:11:42.600 it's like not only should this stop it should cease to exist yeah and you're like well that's a little

00:11:46.520 trumpy that's a little uh fascist-y or whatever like you're this dictator hey get rid of it it's it's

00:11:53.800 offensive but like to who and then then we do this thing where i'll do like a black room and it kills

00:11:59.320 the jokes killed and i'll do a white room and they're like that's offensive to black people i'm like

00:12:02.600 well tell the uh 200 people the black people laughing man that is exactly what i found like

00:12:07.480 i used to have a bunch of jokes about me having dark skin and and people thinking i'm from pakistan

00:12:13.640 and all of that shit and it was always ethnic minority rooms where that went down really well

00:12:18.440 yeah and it was always the guilty white people they'd be like oh you know exactly every time so

00:12:24.760 isn't that a little fucked up you're speaking for them it's this weird soft racism hey they can't

00:12:29.000 handle that that's a little over the line whatever and you're like they've been through so much and

00:12:33.480 you're worried about this joke about not being able to swim you know what are we doing here yeah

00:12:39.800 so there's a lot of uh a lot of weird soft bigotry of like we'll handle this they're brown yeah let us

00:12:48.120 do it and you're like well how come that's not offensive yeah but then making the joke was and i think

00:12:52.520 the joke thing to your point is just i think it's a young a generational thing i think younger people

00:12:58.120 maybe they're they're they grew up with this online outrage and like we got to stop this we got to stop

00:13:04.200 that and so then they see it in real life and they weren't ready for it they're like whoa i can't believe

00:13:09.640 it we should do something you know because everybody's living on a pillow right now you know and so when you

00:13:15.400 go out into the real world and hear a joke about fucked up shit it's hot it's heavy it's like whoa i

00:13:21.880 didn't see that coming and you can't pick what a comic says everything else in life is catered now

00:13:26.520 tinder it's like up that ugly fat tall gay whatever even your meal i don't want uh gluten dairy whatever

00:13:33.480 but then you go to a comedy show and it's all fresh and you're like whoa i didn't i didn't pick this

00:13:39.240 but and you don't have control you don't have control they like control these people complain they

00:13:44.120 like control and we've always had these people sure but it definitely has upped but we've never

00:13:49.000 given them a megaphone before that's right that too yeah and not only do we they not have a megaphone

00:13:54.040 but now we listen yeah we cater to that one quiff yeah who was upset about the wheelchair joke

00:14:00.360 and like i've seen stuff where they're like no fat jokes and a guy's like i'm 400 pounds my whole act

00:14:05.560 is fat jokes and they're like yeah but he's like so now you're trying to be progressive and a good guy

00:14:12.680 but you're telling me what i can't say what makes me feel better how i get over my pain this is how

00:14:18.280 i relieve you know i feel better with with the jokes and they're like yeah it's no good and he's like

00:14:23.560 so you're like a dictator like i can't do my own fat this is my act that's crazy yeah and then what

00:14:29.560 these people don't seem to understand is that it's by joking about these things it's cathartic yes it

00:14:37.000 actually brings us together yeah absolutely like you the the people who've got the darkest sense

00:14:42.040 of humor are always the people yeah who work like you know if you've ever been out with medics

00:14:47.080 those people's sense of humor is fucked up i'm like i'm look that's too dark for me yes yeah teachers

00:14:52.600 yeah hr people you hang out with an hr person you're doing heroin i mean they go all in they were in

00:14:57.720 clan hood at home and all kinds of stuff so like it always look at cosby that's the inverse of that you

00:15:03.800 know i'm the america's dead you know sweater and family man pull your pants up meanwhile off hours

00:15:11.720 it's a spike drink pants down yeah you know you get it but the thing is it's so true the thing is

00:15:20.760 that really pisses me off right and we're on ryan long's podcast and and we made the same point which

00:15:26.840 is when did comics start censoring other comics yeah that hurts that hurts because you know what we're

00:15:32.840 doing you know shane gillis for example he got in trouble for saying a asian racial slur in a

00:15:38.520 podcast as a joke and they went hard on him and you're like in the it's so sad to see the comics

00:15:45.080 tweeting because you're like you know what he's trying to do yeah he's not a bad guy he's not a

00:15:49.160 racist like that really i get the soccer mom or the the religious weirdo and you're like all right

00:15:55.160 you you know you you guys but the the comics that that's when i was like oh things are different now

00:16:01.320 yeah man that that was the thing that totally shocked me realizing that actually certainly in

00:16:07.720 the uk a lot of comedians are on board with this i know and you actually find a lot of them at the

00:16:14.760 forefront they're actually fucking they're at the front with the flag yeah that hurts yeah i thought

00:16:20.520 we were a group right i thought we were like there was some camaraderie here but uh once that happens

00:16:25.560 that's when i got scared i was like oh geez i've said crazy shit to comedians because i thought

00:16:29.160 that's what we did you know the holocaust that wasn't real you know and then now you do that

00:16:33.800 to the wrong guy and you're like he goes out and he goes so mark norman doesn't think the whole and

00:16:37.880 you're like wait what yeah that's the that's why it's a joke because it's so crazy but yeah but this

00:16:42.200 is what you this is what happens in green rooms right is everybody's just trying to outdo each

00:16:46.120 other ridiculous outrageous shit ever and that was supposed to be the thing that that's kind of the

00:16:51.480 bond right in many ways like the comedy club is such a beautiful space to be that's one of the

00:16:58.280 the things i really liked about stand-up is you've got people from every background and there's

00:17:02.280 something they've got in common that overrides anything yes which is we've all been on stage

00:17:07.320 we've all we've all done this thing right right and part of it is the dark sense of humor that

00:17:12.120 comedians tend to share backstage of course of course and then to have someone backstage who could be

00:17:17.640 a bad guy you're like well this is scary again like now i feel like i'm in i'm hanging out in the

00:17:22.840 teacher's lounge right you know where we used to all just be you fuck up student you know

00:17:28.520 play around people and now it's like can i say this around him is he gonna take it too so

00:17:33.720 it's a bummer it's a bummer and those people are rarely funny you know so it almost seems like there's

00:17:39.800 some weird way for them to like win again like i'll take you down funny guy and i'll be up and you're

00:17:47.320 like all right do you think we exaggerate this at some point like are you restricted in doing comedy

00:17:52.520 yourself do you feel that you are having to not say certain things and not make certain jokes

00:17:57.880 uh a little uh but i've i've luckily been doing this long enough that i've kind of cultivated my

00:18:03.560 own people like when i do shows i have random openers and they'll be like dude your crowd is

00:18:08.600 awesome i can't do this over here right i'm like yeah yeah it took a while but i got my people by

00:18:13.480 putting out on my page and my youtube and all that so i used to for sure when you're the new guy you

00:18:20.520 gotta play ball you gotta kind of get in line and find your people and kill but not offend anybody

00:18:27.240 and then eventually you graduate to i mean look at like a bill burr or ricky gervais yeah or chapelle

00:18:32.280 can say whatever they want and sure people don't like it but just don't go see him yeah that's what

00:18:36.440 i don't get like i do think there are people who go oh comedy it's this place i can say the n-word and

00:18:42.280 scream it out and i'll be safe because it's protected by the rules of comedy and free speech and you're like

00:18:48.760 yeah yeah but you're still being a dick and just saying crazy shit to say crazy i still think it

00:18:53.640 has to be funny and i still think if you do say fucked up shit you won't have a career right

00:18:59.000 you might get some weirdo you know fans that are like psychos they're like that's my guy he says

00:19:04.520 what i'm thinking and you could have them so i think they punish themselves because a lot of

00:19:09.400 people are worried like if you give out free speech and protect these comedians they'll just say

00:19:14.920 like white supremacy shit which you know could happen but that person is going to have that

00:19:20.280 they're never going to be no how many comedians is the white supremacist community produced

00:19:26.360 not a lot right well it depends who you're asking yeah that's true

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00:21:05.320 I guess what I'm saying as well is this is your point that you made so well is comedy is very

00:21:12.040 self-regulating yes it's an ecosystem a comedian even some deluded weirdo that went on stage and

00:21:18.280 said the n-word they would very quickly find out yes that is not what the audience is there for

00:21:23.400 exactly in our society now that's the thing that's why I don't understand a lot of these like ideas

00:21:28.200 about we've got to restrict comedy because otherwise everyone's going to be out there dropping the n-bomb

00:21:32.360 because they ain't they ain't because it'll police itself right that's what happens stop laughing the

00:21:37.640 crowd won't laugh the bookers won't book you it's just that's how that works exactly but but you what

00:21:43.640 you're saying is also very true which is the people who are super successful you don't have to like

00:21:48.840 that's why people go well there's no problem with free speech and comedy look at ricky gervais look

00:21:53.560 yeah there is a free speech if you're ricky gervais yeah yeah yeah you gotta get there but you gotta get

00:21:58.760 there and so as you were the new guy you felt you had to you know make sure you didn't cross too

00:22:04.200 many lines sure sure i would go this happened to me with a black guy i'll change to a white guy

00:22:08.760 you know just to get by you know and uh even now i'll have a joke about a black guy my car got stolen

00:22:15.320 and i caught the guy black guy whatever so i bring that up in the joke you're like that's

00:22:18.440 fucked up and i'm like that's what happened get mad at reality or get mad at that guy stealing my car

00:22:24.120 like right i'm just painting a picture with the joke and people say why does he have to be black

00:22:28.120 i'm like well i can use this later for a joke setup you know it's it's comedy i'm trying to set something

00:22:34.200 up here yeah and you need all the details for the joke to work so it's just like that like i have

00:22:38.680 school shooting jokes and people like what do you promote school shootings and i'm like no they happen

00:22:42.760 so i write about them that's it they stop trying to read into this evil shit and that's what really

00:22:48.040 bugs me about the canceling or whatever you want to call it is it doesn't feel like it's really about

00:22:53.160 justice as much as it is about the joy of ruining and taking down somebody that's what

00:23:00.280 was the most sinister part of it it's not really about it's like we got one yeah it's not about it

00:23:06.840 feels like like sport hunting right you're like if you shoot this buck and eat it i get it but if

00:23:11.240 you just shoot this buck and walk away that's pretty fucked up and that feels like what the cancel

00:23:16.120 shit sometimes is like we got this guy we got this guy and you're like but what did that do

00:23:20.600 yeah it did you just ruined it and you feel better because your life is sad and you're bankrupt of any

00:23:26.040 joy so you ruined someone else and maybe it gave you a jolt of happiness for a second but

00:23:32.840 you're not the good guy you're you're you're mean as shit that's so scary and and gross and yet they

00:23:39.240 like to present themselves as being incredibly virtuous i know whilst whilst literally ruining

00:23:45.080 people's lives and careers i know they they hold up the the dead animal they go look this was me

00:23:49.800 i got it and i think eventually it comes out in the wash like i know a lot of people who've been that

00:23:54.840 guy who called out whatever people and now their lives of a couple years go by and you realize you

00:24:00.760 have nothing to offer you're just talentless and everything fizzled away once you know shit simmered

00:24:09.080 down a little bit so there is that but i don't know like the name in the name of good is like

00:24:15.880 look it's good we got the harveys the cosby's the epstein these guys are all horrific and whatever

00:24:20.520 monsters but like these little ones like you hear i have a friend he's like a ceo of some company

00:24:26.120 not comedy and he was at a meeting with all his employees and he goes how are the numbers on that

00:24:33.320 whatever sale vicky and she goes great we got the sale and he goes that a baby yeah all right we

00:24:39.960 got it whatever two days later hr goes vicky's got a problem she's she's upset uh he's like wow

00:24:47.320 what happened he goes you called her baby and he's like well i'm saying like that a baby yeah you know

00:24:52.200 like an expression and they're like yeah you said baby and he's like this is my company what the hell

00:24:57.240 is going on and then you're like should i fire her well she might sue me and then she might write

00:25:02.440 an article you know you're like what are we doing the company's going great and we got to deal

00:25:06.920 with this fucking shit it's like it's not even reality anymore yeah and then you tell people about

00:25:12.120 and they roll their eyes but then you're like well tell that to the internet when she posts the

00:25:16.200 whatever and then here we are yeah and i get it women go through hell and there's sexual harassment

00:25:21.560 and all that that stuff does exist but it's like we gotta be uh realistic here we gotta live in

00:25:27.240 some sort of normal world where you can't just take this baby i don't know it's just uh

00:25:35.080 it's just sad that that's how we're living like we have to sidestep over these retards who are like

00:25:39.480 oh you said this you're like i know but shut the fuck up and that's where they we need that russian

00:25:44.200 bomb raid to come in you know like oh you called me baby boom the bomb comes down you're like that's

00:25:49.480 what you were worried about you ever seen that old meme where the guy's laying in bed and he's like i wish

00:25:53.720 i had tweeted more and then he dies and you're like what are we doing we got one life we're

00:25:59.000 wasting it on this horse shit yeah do you know what it is like you saying we don't live in the

00:26:03.960 real world anymore and that's such a profound point because with the internet yeah no one lives in the

00:26:08.280 real world anymore right right but the problem is the internet can have repercussions into the real

00:26:12.600 world yeah exactly you know exactly so it starts to feed back and now what the culture that was

00:26:18.200 created on the internet is now right affecting people in the real world yeah right do you find

00:26:24.040 that this is it the upside i suppose is it gives you something to push back against it with your

00:26:30.120 comedy do you talk about it or you just try and just be funny i try to talk about it on the same

00:26:35.560 level that it actually affects real people right because i go all over the country poor middle america

00:26:41.560 whatever you want to call it yeah south north and these people have a lot less to do with the

00:26:47.560 the internet that we're reading and looking at you know we're pretty consumed with this because

00:26:51.720 we have to be we're in this world podcasting comedy yeah whatever they're not they're raising

00:26:56.840 their kids they're mowing the lawn they're going to work they hate their boss their mom is sick

00:27:01.320 you know all this shit and soccer practice whatever it is and uh i don't think they're reading

00:27:07.240 about every little thing and every canceling and all this so like i only do it i just skim the

00:27:13.320 surface of it just so they'll understand because they're not as deep into it as we are

00:27:16.920 and sometimes i think we do let this shit affect us and we absorb it too much and yeah definitely

00:27:22.040 makes us all sad and crazier and angrier but uh i only tap into it the part that affects them

00:27:29.880 yeah i think that's very wise because like you said we're marinating in this whole culture yes

00:27:35.000 and particularly comedians you know we i don't know why we're well i've got a few theories what we

00:27:40.280 seem to be at the cold face of this crap right right you know because we've all seen our industry

00:27:46.440 change yeah right the way from when we started to where we are now we've seen it sort of slowly seep

00:27:52.200 in so i think we we're affected by it more than anything more than most people but here's the thing

00:27:58.120 do you think we're more affected by it because of the industry that we're in or do you think we're

00:28:04.440 the canary in the coal mine like what's gonna happen with our industry is gonna seep into all

00:28:09.880 the others ah interesting well the people keep telling me like ah it's changing i can feel it

00:28:16.680 changing like netflix not getting rid of chapelle spotify not getting rid of rogan like these are all

00:28:22.600 good signs you know but to me what blows my mind and that's a great question and uh here's my answer

00:28:29.400 i don't know if i want to be the canary like i just want to be a funny guy i got 12 minutes on

00:28:33.240 farting you know like i don't know if i want to take this mantle of like truth saying comedian

00:28:40.120 you're a prophet you got to get out there and say the truth for the people i'm like oh i got like

00:28:44.680 dick jokes you know i'm not like this uh save the world guy because if i do that then i'm just as bad

00:28:51.320 as these psychos in my own in my version i'm like i don't want to they're they're trying to save the

00:28:56.040 world by taking down comedy specials and racism and all this and you're like that's great go go march go

00:29:01.720 protest but i just don't want to i just want to do my work and be left alone yeah that's my thing so

00:29:08.440 maybe we are the canary in the coal mines but i don't know if i want to be that guy and not in a

00:29:12.280 selfish way i just never was i grew up watching ellen seinfeld chris rock and you just told funny

00:29:19.720 jokes so then you got famous and rich and you had a good life and that's all that's what i was hoping

00:29:23.560 for i don't want to like change the world or whatever and look at my hat if things happen to

00:29:30.200 change because of comics and whatever that's great but i don't know if we want that responsibility

00:29:36.360 because that's a dangerous road to go down if you do burr made such a good point about this he said

00:29:41.720 if comedy could change the world and change generally change the way that people thought

00:29:45.880 about the world they would have banned it they wouldn't allow it well yeah and it would have happened by

00:29:51.320 now yeah there's been comedy this whole time and shit's still fucked up yeah see where i disagree

00:29:56.120 with that is in russia where i'm from that is exactly what they did they banned comedy wow so they

00:30:02.040 obviously think it works yeah whoa i think of us of comedians as more as icebreakers yeah you know

00:30:07.880 like when there's a fight at the dinner party the little kid goes like my diaper is soiled and everybody

00:30:13.640 goes ah that's funny because it's just so out of left field but uh i think of us as icebreakers we we

00:30:19.400 we might tap into it and say something crazy that we're all thinking and say the truth and everybody

00:30:24.760 laughs and then people mistake that for like aha he's a he's a soothsayer this guy's nostradamus he

00:30:33.880 sees things that we're all seeing but we he pinpointed it and i'm like i don't know about that i was just

00:30:39.560 trying to cut the tension yeah you know yeah it's it's really interesting because the role of the

00:30:45.560 comedian i think has changed a lot yeah you know whereas before you know we just used to go and

00:30:50.840 watch comedy and the comedy that you used to watch was a comedy you used to watch right but now

00:30:56.760 everything has become political because of that internet culture so yeah everything has become

00:31:02.920 political even comedy and it's like if a comedian isn't political it's starting to look a bit weird

00:31:10.120 do you know what i mean i guess but i'm not political yeah but they still try to put you in

00:31:15.320 a box they go what is i had a woman once after a show she goes i liked your set but i can't tell if

00:31:19.960 you're right or left and i was like good that's a good thing i'm just being funny yeah and why are you

00:31:25.960 sitting there trying to pinpoint it just enjoy the fucking show you crazy coos yeah what are we doing

00:31:30.840 here yeah this isn't a uh a debate or anything like what are we oh where is he at like just watch watch the

00:31:38.280 fucking show but that's the problem the internet has made everything political right every art form

00:31:44.040 political everything is woke anti-woke not work or whatever else that we just get infected we get

00:31:50.200 infected and if you pick a side you tend to do better this is what we always say because we talk

00:31:56.440 about these issues a lot um and in the current climate it's the it's the woke left trying to

00:32:02.520 cancel people on the right and it's the work left shutting down free speech so people then go oh well

00:32:07.240 you must be on the right and that would be the best thing for us to do financially yes to go we

00:32:13.800 are conservative we're not right but we could do that and we'd have a shit ton more fans and a shit

00:32:19.320 ton more money because then we'd be playing to a team yes whereas we're much more interested in doing

00:32:24.760 what you're talking about which is going like i don't want to pick a team yeah i didn't i'm i never

00:32:31.160 wanted to be on a team no no i want to be a team comedy right well it's exactly so that's when it

00:32:37.880 started and now that we're doing the show that for me that's the primary thing i don't want the show to

00:32:42.120 be on a team either right because both teams are going to be in power at one point and they both need

00:32:48.920 challenging they both need questioning right that that to me is the role of people in our space whether

00:32:53.960 it's comedy whether it's podcasting yeah but it's as you say it's much easier to pick a team yeah yeah

00:33:00.680 and it's tempting obviously because you the money rolls in and the fans roll in but it's i think you

00:33:05.880 got to stay the course and have some integrity and be the thing you are at when you first started you

00:33:12.280 know like just be that guy all the way and if you tend to gravitate and skew from certain groups so

00:33:18.760 be it but you don't change yeah i i'm my friend joe list is a he's a pretty political guy and he's

00:33:24.920 he always says he's a 90s liberal because he's like i don't understand what's happening with the left

00:33:29.880 and he's like i'm still a liberal but i'm like old school i like free speech i like uh you know

00:33:36.760 gay marriage and weed and a little less government and a little more help the people and whatever and

00:33:41.960 i'm like yeah that's what i am but it's almost become an insult to be like oh you're one of these

00:33:46.680 right-wing guys like it's kind of like we do with racists you know like oh you're a racist like

00:33:50.760 wait what what are you crazy like back in the the 90s you call somebody a racist it was like what he

00:33:55.800 oh did he kill a black guy what happened is he like this or that and now it's like ah racist let

00:34:00.520 me read the article you know completely taking the teeth out of that word and that's an important word

00:34:05.720 so it's it's and look at what they tried to do to rogan as well it's like he he has some

00:34:10.920 conversations with people he wants to know about the vaccine whatever he's anti-vax he's far right

00:34:15.960 yeah and it's like and then he's like i voted for bernie sanders i'm this and that they're like

00:34:21.080 yeah whatever you're far right you're like well if we're not gonna listen this is scary yeah you

00:34:25.800 know like bill i keep bringing up bill burr but i'm a fan but he did a a grammy award show and he

00:34:31.560 introduced a latin artist and the name was all super latiny and he it up and he's

00:34:37.160 not a good reader i can't say this name not only natalie what all right uh and the winner uh

00:34:46.840 the grammy goes to natalia la focadie

00:34:56.600 dude you oh i will look oh sorry i will accept on behalf of her if i butchered her name i'm sorry

00:35:01.560 and they're like he's a really white man with the races uh mispronouncing the name and

00:35:07.080 and one guy goes he's not a racist and they go fuck he was racist he goes well you know his wife's

00:35:11.320 black and the guy wrote back like well some people did marry black women for a fetish and that's and

00:35:17.480 his wife eventually wrote back and wrote shut up bitch this black woman had to be like shut the

00:35:23.080 fuck up what are you doing and that's what we've gotten we can't even we no one can go ah good point you

00:35:29.320 got me there that's out so if discussion is out we're really doomed and i think that's what's

00:35:34.920 happening it's just about win win win you know that point you made about him not being a good

00:35:38.680 reader is such a good point because uh i have a foreign name right constantin kissin it's difficult

00:35:43.880 for people who need to pronounce and a lot of these idiots who run around saying well if you can't

00:35:47.480 pronounce someone's name you're racist right what happened one time one of these guys uh

00:35:54.520 they'd just been making that argument on the show and then they brought up an article that i'd

00:35:58.600 written and he'd completely butchered my name there you go and you could have used that you

00:36:04.600 could have gone hey hey this is my chance yeah and i just want you you got my name wrong it's okay it

00:36:09.640 happens right but but these tools these standards of like perfection now it's like this is the thing

00:36:16.600 that always bothered me with comedy is like part of the process of discovering what an offensive joke

00:36:21.880 has to be like is going too far and then pulling back right yes you try it out it maybe goes a bit far

00:36:27.240 you rephrase it you reword it but if every time now yeah that joke gets recorded and put on the

00:36:33.160 internet that changes the way that the whole thing happens right of course and and isn't that the most

00:36:39.080 polite way to do it let me go to a comedy club see where the line is and then i will now course correct

00:36:45.640 and not go there again or go over it again yeah and then now i have the bit down now i got it but you're

00:36:51.000 just getting mad at the at the part where you went over to to figure out where it's at and now you're

00:36:57.560 mad at me for trying to do the right thing in a weird way yeah so chris rock made that point um

00:37:04.200 a few years ago where he was talking about when he created you know when he was fine-tuning the

00:37:09.560 routine you know black people versus the m-word and he said when i first started doing it it was just

00:37:15.560 outright racist almost and then it took me six months before i could make that bit funny but

00:37:22.920 just imagine we're in a place let's call it 2022 yeah where you do that routine someone records it

00:37:29.400 puts it out on the internet and goes you know chris rock is you know punching down

00:37:34.920 yeah exactly we never get to see that bit and that bit you could argue legitimately changed comedy

00:37:41.800 it's an amazing it's an iconic bit i think about that joke twice a day i like the n-word

00:37:47.480 but yeah that's an amazing bit and thank god he worked it out and thank god it was in the 90s

00:37:52.360 yeah yeah how other so we talked it well we talked about this stuff a lot other than that i mean you've

00:37:58.920 been going a long time 16 years like how what else has changed in the comedy world what do you notice

00:38:04.280 well one thing i noticed uh was in new york new york was like this bastion okay it was like a thriving

00:38:10.280 comedy scene and when i moved here the alt scene as we call it i don't know if you guys have heard

00:38:14.040 of this was big it was like this kind of bring your notepad up get out of the clubs that's hacky

00:38:20.200 or you call a guy in the front row gay where'd you get that shirt i'll talk slower new jersey you know

00:38:25.000 a lot of that and so they made this alternative scene which was funny a little less mean uh whatever

00:38:30.920 a little wackier a little strange more abstract and it was great it was a lot of funny people

00:38:35.000 zach galifianakis and all these guys came out of there todd berry and they could all do clubs but

00:38:40.760 this was just becoming this kind of movement it got very popular now the tv shows are picking it

00:38:45.720 up fly to the concourse was pretty ulty you know stuff like that and that was great because that was

00:38:51.880 a new comic you could show up and they were a little more welcoming you know and it wasn't like

00:38:56.440 what is this a straight white male it was just he was just a comic and ironically as we get more

00:39:01.400 inclusive those shows started to go away because they started making these rules hey you can't say

00:39:06.040 this can't say now there's like two of them they used to be like 50 and it's just kind of a microcosm

00:39:11.720 of society like hey you got to look like this you got to be that way we have rules now you can't do

00:39:17.000 that and it just they all just started going away one by one and it was like this booming great way to

00:39:22.920 be a comic like these rooms would fill up and they were it was like the cool thing to do with these

00:39:26.920 rooms and now they're all gone basically wow and that's it should be very telling and nobody gives

00:39:32.920 a fuck because everyone's like well i'm not starting one and that's just how it goes and that's that's

00:39:38.040 what kills me it's like chappelle love or hate him he puts out that special the closer a lot of trans

00:39:43.240 material he's he's all on the trans thing now and this woman at netflix big transitioned dude to woman

00:39:51.720 black guy lady was like fuck him he's a transphobe then people found her tweets and it was like

00:39:57.720 fuck these trannies and these asian people i'll kill an asian motherfucker f word f word whatever

00:40:04.600 and then you're like okay well now attack her and they didn't and you're like well why is he bad and

00:40:10.680 she's not she's saying worse than him and on twitter but they don't attack her and that's when i get

00:40:16.120 annoyed because i'm like if you really believe this shit you should be mad at her too yeah but they think

00:40:21.160 they think comedians are powerful this is this is what they think i guess so they think that

00:40:25.960 because you are on netflix or because you're on a podcast or because you're on twitter or whatever

00:40:31.640 you have power this is the idea that because people hear more people hear what you have to say that

00:40:37.320 means you're you know you've got to be responsible now it's like comedians like no one who's met

00:40:42.360 comedians thinks comedians should be role models for anyone no we're idiots we're man boys you know

00:40:49.160 we can barely wipe our own ass uh but yeah it's it's it's crazy you're right i guess but

00:40:55.480 schultz said this like comedy is supposed to be wrong like i just said i love the n-word yeah i

00:41:01.000 don't love the n-word but that's funny because it's such a ridiculous thing yeah i'm supposed to

00:41:05.320 say the wrong thing and then people go he said he said he loves the n-word and you're like what are

00:41:09.640 you doing yeah are you nuts and it's like that old thing are you lying or are you stupid which one is

00:41:15.800 it yeah and i think they're lying yeah do you see good things about what's happening with comedy is

00:41:20.120 there anything you're excited about well there's a lot of good comics nowadays yeah comedy's very

00:41:24.040 popular and it's uh moving tickets i mean i've been doing this a while and it's we're in a boom

00:41:30.040 yeah sure really oh yeah oh yeah yeah and uh you can make your own way you have youtube as much as we

00:41:36.680 bitch yeah we're doing something you guys are making your own stuff i made my own special i put it on

00:41:42.040 youtube and until youtube starts going hey we got to get rid of this guy we got to get rid of that

00:41:46.440 gal then i think we're in a good place so it sucks all the shitty stuff sucks but like my friend

00:41:52.040 just made a movie with a cancelled comedian and the movie's doing great and i'm like so how's the

00:41:57.480 backlash you're getting like he's like we're getting a ton of it but we just ignore it yeah

00:42:00.600 and i think sadly that's the key yeah and i hate that because i try to be a nice guy i don't

00:42:05.560 want to be the offensive guy sure i mean to anybody anything is offensive you do a joke about a buzzsaw well

00:42:11.640 my wife was killed by a buzzsaw it's like i didn't know that sorry i wasn't trying to hurt you

00:42:15.960 so that's gonna happen it's inevitable but i don't want to be that guy like you know these

00:42:20.920 comments like i walked half the room because i keep it real and you're like oh yeah what are you

00:42:24.760 crazy i'd like to make people laugh and all that so i try to cater my act and keep it somewhat

00:42:30.600 neutral and somewhat polite i have trans jokes i have gay jokes i have black jokes but they're all

00:42:35.800 just jokes about something it's not like mean yeah i can get mean sure but i try to keep it

00:42:43.720 very on the level and then when people still attack you you're like what makes you just want to quit

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00:43:25.480 do is spend shed loads of cash on an advert that's going to be promoted on a dying medium like tv then

00:43:31.640 simply sit back and watch all your hard-earned money disappear down the toilet what about advertising

00:43:37.480 with trigonometry why would i do that when i can advertise on itv3 for the measly sum of 20 grand

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00:44:27.160 cancelled i think that part of the thing is man and obviously as comics we're hypersensitive to it

00:44:34.040 we're very sensitive right we are but also it's like nowadays if you're like i i meet people i was

00:44:40.760 doing tv once and i met this woman uh she she runs a charity for children and she raises money for kids

00:44:47.560 okay and she gets shit on the internet for what she what for man grooming i i i no no not grooming

00:44:57.960 that's a that's socially approved and sanctioned in the uk yeah especially by the bbc yeah exactly

00:45:03.560 but you know what i'm saying like yeah yeah you can't get shit it doesn't matter anything you do

00:45:08.840 now yeah someone someone somewhere someone somewhere is going to be doing that well yeah somebody had a

00:45:14.120 funny joke i can't remember who but it was like i get all these comments online they're so mean then

00:45:18.520 i looked up beethoven's fifth symphony and it's like this sucks fuck this guy he's a douche what

00:45:24.200 a fag or whatever you're like all right you can't win but here's what really kills me all we preach

00:45:29.800 is like hey you got to get these people's pronouns it's insensitive these people have feelings and you're

00:45:35.160 like yeah i get it okay so i'll try to i'll try to adapt i'll try to keep up with your ever-changing

00:45:41.080 system and i try to play ball but you calling me horrible shit why isn't that insensitive so they've

00:45:48.840 built this system where you're you have carte blanche to be insanely cruel if we deem you

00:45:54.200 inappropriate but it's like you deemed me you gotta let everyone deem me that and that's what's

00:45:59.800 fucked up like all you preach is insensitivity but who's more insensitive than you calling someone a

00:46:05.160 bigot that's insanely like that hurts my feelings you call me a racist i'm not that's you're basically

00:46:11.160 calling me as ignorant stupid person what's more incentive i got your pronoun wrong on accident i'm

00:46:15.880 a fucking monster you're a monster you're saying fuck you know i have my mom like somebody tweeted

00:46:22.280 that you're a pedophile i'm like jesus christ sorry mom and she's like what the hell's going on

00:46:26.840 i'm like that's the internet she's like this is crazy i'm like it's fun seeing it from an outsider

00:46:31.320 yeah who's not involved in all this shit and i'm like yeah i know it's it's horrible but i'm

00:46:36.360 and she's like you're not bothered by this i'm like i'm used to it yeah which is even sadder yeah

00:46:40.600 yeah so that fucking sucks like i don't think these people realize how much damage they do to people's

00:46:46.440 psyche and you know just the country yeah have you had friends who've kind of gone through that yes

00:46:52.920 yes and you know you you apologize i'm so sorry it's it's i don't know what to do and like should

00:46:59.720 i defend you don't defend me then you don't get you and they'll be mean to you and you're like all

00:47:04.280 right all right so it's just sad it's like you don't realize what you're doing but you were racist

00:47:10.120 i made a joke what are you crazy i mean what gillis went through is traumatic yeah dramatic and they go

00:47:16.360 he's fine i'm like how do you know he's fine he's selling tickets it's not about the tickets it's about

00:47:21.800 what you did to the guy's life he had two years of his life he was like having night terrors depressed

00:47:26.440 and where's the where's the sensitivity i keep hearing about you know but you deemed him inappropriate

00:47:31.560 so therefore carte blanche but but this is it you know it's like the end of the play the crucible

00:47:37.720 you know where he's being where they're gonna execute him and they says and he says

00:47:43.960 don't touch my name leave my name out of this you know don't tarnish my name my name is the only

00:47:50.920 thing that i have john proctor's speech at the end and it's so powerful because it's true because

00:47:55.880 really all that we have in many ways is our reputation our reputation as a human being and

00:48:00.760 when someone says the word racist or bigot they're tarnishing your reputation yeah yeah that's the

00:48:06.680 plan you know and it's to discredit you and ultimately it's dehumanizing and these people don't

00:48:12.360 seem to understand that i know because they're in their bubble they're they're a hero and it's so sad

00:48:18.120 because you're like you're not and you don't get it and you can shake their shoulders and they'll

00:48:22.200 they'll never understand you know and they have that agenda but also they don't seem to understand

00:48:28.760 or maybe they do that when you do this to one person it has an effect on everybody else around

00:48:34.520 them sure sure no but i think that's the entire point isn't it yeah the entire point is to control

00:48:39.480 how people speak what people joke about it yes yeah they're trying to shut down a lot it's just trendy

00:48:44.920 at this point too yeah even if it's not about control which maybe it is but it's just like

00:48:49.240 this is the cool way to be i'm i'm an activist or whatever the hell they tell themselves and you're

00:48:54.120 like but you're you're cruel yeah but you could say hey police are cruel when they beat up a guy who

00:49:00.440 who murdered somebody but they got to do it that's the other ironic thing it's like defund the police

00:49:04.920 but this they're very police-like you know hey don't say this don't do that you got out of line

00:49:09.240 we got to hit you over the head it's very police-like but that being the case

00:49:15.480 i actually think it's important particularly with comedians particularly when you know that

00:49:19.320 they haven't done anything wrong that if when people come after them or people say

00:49:24.040 shit we've got to all stand up man right we've all got to go look fuck off yeah because the more you

00:49:30.680 push back against it the less they're going to want to do it maybe even ignoring is even more powerful

00:49:36.280 maybe it is i don't know i've just i'm vengeful i get it i get it you know what i mean yeah it's to

00:49:45.240 me they they're no different than the playground bully they're not gonna do it to someone really

00:49:51.400 who they know that they can really hurt yeah because they can try but they're gonna go after

00:49:57.080 and really try and hurt the people who they know can't fight right right and and here's the saddest

00:50:02.840 part is we're in a nice place talking about this a million people are watching this going maybe not

00:50:09.400 a million let's be realistic people are watching this going three white guys sitting around talking

00:50:16.040 about cancel what the fuck do they know about that and you're like you're doing it again you can't

00:50:21.240 help yourself they're doing it right now they're going three white guys here we go we got to listen

00:50:24.840 to this shit again and you're like first of all maybe maybe listen maybe absorb something and take

00:50:30.120 it in and second of all it's a it's a problem it's a thing like people are losing jobs

00:50:35.960 there's people in cubicles who are like oh shit i said this on uh on a whatever and now i can't

00:50:42.040 have a job as a production assistant and whatever the hell job it's like this happens all over and

00:50:47.400 you're like stop focusing on our race too like three white men straight away it's like that it's just so

00:50:54.280 exhausting and you're like just listen to me i'm a human being all we talk about is like inclusive and

00:50:58.840 and open-mindedness and that's the opposite of that there's but it's also so superficial because we

00:51:03.560 we've talked about this a gazillion times but france's mother dark brown skinned woman from

00:51:08.360 venezuela okay latino right but he happens to look white therefore he's a white man right very way

00:51:14.200 i'm a first generation russian jewish immigrant with like greek and whatever blood right to a lot of

00:51:20.040 people i'm not white in the uk i wasn't considered white in russia when i was really no no right so

00:51:27.480 you you you've you've decided you know what my race is you've decided he's a white man do you

00:51:35.000 see what i'm saying of course of course because they do that with gender right yeah that wouldn't

00:51:38.840 lie you decide what my job i tell you what my gender you should do that with uh with your race right

00:51:43.960 so but but but the whole idea that what whether what people are saying is valuable or not depends

00:51:49.080 on what skin color they have to me that seems seems quite like quite a backward idea mark completely

00:51:54.360 backwards and complete regression and i it's it has to topple over on itself because i saw a woman

00:52:00.840 once with a she was shouting there's no such thing as gender it's a construct it's a contract but she

00:52:05.720 had a shirt on said the future is female and i'm like ah the irony what are you doing by the way future

00:52:13.240 is female not very inclusive yeah wiping out uh and i look i know i'm i'm reading into it too

00:52:18.840 literally but i'm a comedian yeah but uh yeah it's just like it can't last there's always these ways

00:52:25.160 where it just keeps contradicting yeah and when it does fall over it might be in 10 years i'm gonna

00:52:31.960 remember every cum guzzler piece of who is on the other side yeah it's like they say the future is

00:52:37.800 female but none of them can define woman ah yeah see that's another one you're like yeah what what the

00:52:43.480 fuck yeah all right man well we've done a lot of bitching in this podcast yeah no no no we're the

00:52:48.840 ones that have been making it happen yeah um what are you excited about what are you looking forward

00:52:53.320 to with comedy with what you're working on uh well i got a i got a fun hour in the in the hopper it's

00:52:59.960 like getting there i give give it another six months this will be really cooking and clubs are full

00:53:06.200 people are coming out there's a hunger for comedy my media social media is going up my youtube is going

00:53:11.160 up so like people are finding the funny people which is what it should be it should be a meritocracy

00:53:16.120 where the funny wins i don't care what skin color gender whatever funny should win and i think we're

00:53:22.200 going in that direction the cream seems to rise and uh i'm excited about that i think it's good i i hope

00:53:29.960 the country i know you guys aren't americans but i i hope it can figure itself out and it seems like

00:53:35.800 the people are talking and you read every comment on shit and it's like oh i agree with that i agree

00:53:41.080 with that i agree with that so i i feel like i'm in the majority right every green room i go to we

00:53:46.360 have this conversation so really oh yeah oh yeah so the comics are all talking about this not all of

00:53:51.960 them but the ones in green rooms the ones working they're talking about it and uh and again i don't

00:53:59.000 want to be one of these like hey we gotta stand up and fight this woke shit like i i don't want to be

00:54:05.320 that guy but it's like hey if you keep fucking with people's shit it's gonna happen it's gonna come up

00:54:10.440 we never wanted to be those guys either we just like saw what was happening in our industry and

00:54:15.400 you've got to remember in the uk it's a little bit different because there's one industry like here

00:54:20.040 let's say you get i don't know you you whatever people get annoyed with you in new york you can go

00:54:24.840 to la you can go to another scene right in the uk it's not like that right you've got one scene and

00:54:30.600 if the fucking four gatekeepers that control everything don't like you or don't like the political

00:54:35.400 side you take or don't like the joke whatever that's it right yeah so uh what about youtube

00:54:41.880 can you go to that well now so that's the only way yeah right but most people see this is what

00:54:47.400 most people don't understand though is in order to have like a successful podcast or a youtube show

00:54:53.320 it takes quite a lot of work and most comics don't want to do a lot of work of course of course you

00:54:58.600 know we were taught in this business you'd be funny they'll scoop you up they'll put you on tv

00:55:02.680 bright lights there you go yeah yeah they do all the care we comics now learning how to edit

00:55:07.240 learning how to shoot what cameras are good how do i uh mike the guy like that's new yeah you know

00:55:13.240 we could barely drive yeah well exactly and you and you have to put in the work and the effort to

00:55:19.000 build it up and look it if you start a podcast now it's a hell of a lot harder than it was five

00:55:23.720 years ago there's so many now now it's it's competitive it's difficult uh you know you like

00:55:30.040 when we started trigonometry we had like a borrowed camera and like a phone in like in

00:55:35.960 in like a it looked like a seance just like a black curtain with one light and we weren't even facing

00:55:43.720 the right way and it was crap like you can't do that now like if you're starting something now you've

00:55:47.720 got to you've got to you've got to have a good straight away it's got to look good it's got to sound

00:55:51.560 right yeah you know so but this is the thing is like everyone has the not put on opportunity now

00:55:57.480 but you have to put in the work and like you say that's not how comedians get trained we think

00:56:02.600 you know you do the clubs you get picked up by an agent you get on tv you know and then and then

00:56:08.280 you're then you're you're going to be fine that that that isn't going to be the model for almost

00:56:13.160 anyone anymore right it just isn't no you're right but i think dark times lead to entrepreneurship

00:56:20.200 yeah i mean that's always been the case with human history like the great depression all this

00:56:23.800 shit came out of it you know all these inventions and whatnot and world war two yeah yeah yeah

00:56:28.120 exactly so yeah it sucks and we gotta we gotta do all this shit and learn stuff but i think it's for

00:56:35.000 the best i think it's gonna it's a hump to get over and it is a bitch but once you do it you'll be able

00:56:40.600 to control everything you do you'll be able to put out everything and not censor and all that and i think

00:56:45.320 it is for the best and next you guys have a lot of great equipment but i think next is an air

00:56:49.240 conditioning unit it is very hot in here yeah yeah uh but mark listen it's been uh did you want

00:56:57.880 to add something no no no why didn't you touch me the first time we did together but no like

00:57:06.680 i completely agree with everything you say hey the thing that i noticed i remember when i first started

00:57:12.040 the podcast this is way back in like 26 16 2017 and i noticed it was very interesting it was the

00:57:19.000 white comics who were very shy about saying that they were on a podcast they were like oh i don't

00:57:24.440 know what you know i'm worried about what people think about yeah maybe you don't get this in america

00:57:28.680 every time we had a black guest on they're like yes i'm gonna put it on all my fucking socials i'm

00:57:33.000 gonna put it out there because and i was thinking i was thinking why is that and it was like oh because

00:57:37.720 it comes from hip-hop culture because at that time when hip-hop started you know black people

00:57:42.200 were ostracized they were excluded they were facing a great deal of racism prejudice society

00:57:47.400 so they thought to ourselves if you're not going to give us the opportunities we're going to create

00:57:51.560 ourselves which is how hip-hop started right right yes so it was coming from that and i remember

00:57:56.680 looking at them going yeah that's what you need to do you've got to accept that this ain't working

00:58:02.520 anymore yes this model that we were all led to believe was going to be our the way to do it when

00:58:08.120 we started in the mid to late noughties or even earlier we've now got to think more like independent

00:58:13.480 entrepreneurs hell yeah and just make the stuff that we want to make and then put it out there

00:58:18.280 you're completely right and look at hip-hop when that came out especially like gangster rap ice cube

00:58:22.840 and nwa all that shit you know they were burning records nancy reagan don't listen to this parental

00:58:27.640 advisory burning records and cds and you know they're saying fucked up shit they're saying shoot

00:58:34.040 a cop fuck a bitch i'll jizz in your eye whatever the hell they're saying and it was all the stuff

00:58:38.760 that all your jokes basically yeah yeah exactly all the classics but it was taboo and all that but like

00:58:45.960 how corny do those people look now rap has flourished so much and we've got great artists and

00:58:51.640 the weird thing is like now when people want to stomp out comedy or something you're like

00:58:55.400 like you want to be in the annals of history you want to be the the burning ice cube records guy

00:59:03.240 you know like can't you see that this is the path you're on and this i you get to be ice cube yeah

00:59:10.120 which is so much better you're an artist you're a cool guy you're a talent and then they go hey this

00:59:16.280 is offensive and inappropriate you're like that's the side you want to be on when elvis is shaking his

00:59:21.480 hips you want to be the and they they just use different words they go well you're offensive

00:59:25.320 you're a racist you're a bigot with the ice cube you're a thug you're a you know a criminal or

00:59:31.480 whatever and you're like it's just a different version of the same fucking thing with lenny bruce

00:59:37.320 whatever rock and roll you know elvis it just keeps going and you're like can't you see you're on the

00:59:42.920 fucking bad side and this is it because when i was watching the nwa film i can't remember what it's

00:59:50.600 called oh it's a great talk yeah and it's a it's a brilliant movie and when they were trying to shut

00:59:56.200 them down they came out and said this is my right yeah as an american it went to the supreme court

01:00:03.960 this is my first amendment right yes for free speech to say what i think and what i believe and

01:00:10.680 you're like fuck yes yeah that's how it should be of course and look at history like you're you're

01:00:17.800 gonna be the dork yeah if you fight against that as time goes on like people are like gay marriage

01:00:23.000 is wrong now we have gay marriage you want to be that guy who's holding down artists that's crazy

01:00:29.240 yeah and and you know and the thing that i really enjoyed from this conversation is is this sense of

01:00:35.960 optimism because i think particularly in the uk where we're less optimistic we we have less of

01:00:41.800 that kind of entrepreneurial spirit it doesn't come as easily to us there there's more of a kind

01:00:47.320 of like oh what are we gonna do yeah it's all finished there is that it's also because we have

01:00:54.280 laws that prevent you from making offensive jokes yeah yeah yeah that's that too yeah that's terrifying

01:01:00.200 yeah but with america what do you think of that like from an american perspective so we have laws for

01:01:05.000 example that say that if you're grossly offensive you can be you can the police can call you up uh

01:01:10.920 and arrest you they can ask you like we had one guy who tweeted something offensive the police called

01:01:15.640 them and said we need to check your thinking make sure oh and we had a comic recently called joe lyser

01:01:21.000 uh who he was he was on tour very popular comic in the uk very mainstream as well very mainstream he's not

01:01:27.400 like a guy that's going out there going on this you know offensive whatever and uh he had a visit

01:01:33.480 from the police or a call from the police to explain his joke because an audience member like

01:01:37.800 what do you make of that in america i think that's wild i think it's i hope we never get there i think

01:01:43.400 that's insane i think it's scary i think i know in germany it's illegal to make a holocaust joke

01:01:48.920 which is funny because whenever a german comes to new to new york and they go to the comedy cellar

01:01:53.960 where are you from germany oh if i could not see out here and we do it immediately yeah it not only is it

01:01:59.160 allowed it's the first thing we say and i they're like whoa i don't think they're mad we're calling

01:02:05.320 him a nazi they're like wow you went there and that's what's great about american comedy it's like

01:02:10.040 we're going all in immediately and saying the worst fucking thing and breaking the ice back to breaking

01:02:15.560 the ice and i think that's a good thing this guy can finally laugh at this fucked up shit yeah for the

01:02:22.280 first time in how many decades and that's fucking awesome and look i'm calling him a nazi which is

01:02:27.640 shitty but he he knows i'm joking you know he's at a comedy club sitting next to a black lady you

01:02:32.600 know like we all know what it is and that's a beautiful thing and why would you want to take

01:02:37.160 that joy away and what a perfect way to end the show thank you so much for coming on the show mark

01:02:43.000 heil hitler yeah see that's the wrong thing so mark last question we always ask is uh it's a complete

01:02:50.600 free hit what's the one thing we're not talking about that we really should be

01:02:53.880 oh well i think when a lady is blowing you work the balls no uh i feel like the balls get neglected

01:03:01.560 one thing that i think is very strange is my friend is a funny comedian she's a lesbian

01:03:06.360 and everybody now is like you know i'm bi maybe i'm gay you know i'm i think i find women hot maybe

01:03:13.320 i'm bi and she's so mad about these people using this as like some kind of prop and like uh jump up a

01:03:21.960 level in a career thing because now i'm interesting i'm bi and she's like you're not bi you're a liar

01:03:27.640 you're using my shit that i went through hell she's a little older she's using my shit to like prop

01:03:32.680 yourself up and i went through hell as a gay woman who's in her late 40s early 50s like she's pissed

01:03:40.200 and i don't think anybody's bringing that up because we're too scared to approach anything in that

01:03:45.640 world lesbian lives matter exactly yes scissor yeah exactly like you know you get people go like

01:03:53.000 i'm queer like like blokes or whatever else you go unless you've sucked the dick yeah do you know

01:03:58.520 what i mean of course of course then shut the fuck up basically shut the fuck up and uh stop using my

01:04:04.760 shit to elevate your success yeah there you go this episode's ended well uh can i blow you right

01:04:11.720 now of course man that's the only reason i got you on the show mark we're gonna ask you a couple of

01:04:17.240 questions from our supporters only but thanks for coming on where should people go and see you where

01:04:21.880 they should where should they find your podcast etc tell everybody where you're at you got it all

01:04:25.960 right my website is mark norman comedy.com i'm all over the road in america uh tons of tour dates i

01:04:32.120 have two podcasts we might be drunk and tuesdays with stories and uh yeah say hello follow me on

01:04:39.400 the internets and whatnot and just try to be nice that's all i want is to be nice and get along and

01:04:45.400 tell a joke and have people laugh and not hate me fantastic thank you so much for coming on and

01:04:52.600 thank you for watching guys we've got fantastic episodes that always come out wednesdays and sundays

01:04:58.360 7pm uk time uh our raw shows are again at 7pm uk time and for those of you who like your trigonometry

01:05:05.640 on the go it's also available as a podcast we're going to ask some mark some questions for our locals

01:05:11.160 that only our locals supporters are able to do take care and see you soon who is the most annoying

01:05:18.840 celebrity you have worked with and why is it james corden

TRIGGERnometry - October 13, 2022

Mark Normand：＂Stop Taking Comedy Seriously!＂

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