TRIGGERnometry - Megyn Kelly：＂Biden Presidency Won't Heal America＂

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00:00:30.000 hello and welcome to trigonometry i'm francis foster i'm constantin kissin and this is a show

00:00:40.440 for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people our brilliant guest today

00:00:46.300 is one of america's most renowned journalists and broadcasters megan kelly welcome to trigonometry

00:00:51.480 thank you for having me it is such a pleasure to have you on the show listen the reason we were so

00:00:56.620 keen to get you on is, we don't know exactly what's going on with the election, but it looks

00:01:00.920 like Joe Biden will be the president of the United States. And you're one of the journalists,

00:01:06.040 I think we would say, that has been more or less objective on the Trump during the Trump era.

00:01:14.720 You haven't, when you've criticized him, it's been sort of fair. You haven't descended into

00:01:18.540 Trump derangement syndrome equally, even more than usually when he's done something that you

00:01:22.820 thought was good. You've praised him. Do you think the Trump era sort of killed mainstream

00:01:27.140 journalism in a way? Oh, yeah, it's dead. 100%. I said, I think they committed suicide and Trump

00:01:33.400 was their Kevorkian. You know, he's like, he didn't make it happen, but he helped. But they

00:01:38.040 did it to themselves. They surrendered to their own biases. They were fairly open about it. And

00:01:43.940 there's no coming back from that. And there are massive implications to their decision to totally

00:01:48.900 sacrifice their credibility with the American people. There's no coming back from it. And

00:01:53.840 there's no one left to trust now as an institution, you know, who, who that isn't a Democrat

00:01:59.980 or a far left person would trust CNN on anything, right? You'd no Republican in the country would

00:02:06.660 trust them. That didn't used to be the case. When I used to prepare for the Kelly file,

00:02:10.920 when I was hosting on Fox, I would watch CNN. I'd have it. I was boring, but I knew it was

00:02:15.460 facts. And now that's gone, right? And so now we're all tribal, including in our media. And it

00:02:22.520 makes it really hard for American consumers to get the truth. The thing that really bothers me

00:02:27.500 about it, Megan, with this disputed election as such as it is, is I was wondering about this.

00:02:33.180 If, let's say, there were some allegations that were rock solid that came out, which these don't

00:02:39.240 appear to be, but if there were some allegations for either side, the side that is opposite to

00:02:44.980 the side who's making the allegation. Would any of them even believe the media that are telling

00:02:49.680 them that this thing had happened? Right. Everything's fake news if it's bad for you.

00:02:54.880 Right. And that is in part to blame on Trump, but it is mostly to blame on the media. Trump

00:03:01.520 wasn't wrong when he said the media are the enemy of the people. They are the enemy of at least half

00:03:06.780 the people. Like they're not the enemy of the Democrats, but in a way they are because they're

00:03:11.160 undermining trust in this, in the institution of journalism. But they certainly don't want to give

00:03:16.080 Republicans a fair shake. And so he was not wrong to call attention to that. But it really is

00:03:21.740 problematic now, because there's, there used to be a time in this country where you'd pick up the

00:03:26.820 New York Times, and it might lean left, and you read the editorial, and you'd say, all right,

00:03:31.020 I get it. But you'd read the front page, and you would know, maybe the story selection leans left,

00:03:37.420 but the facts I can trust. And now that's no longer the case. And I think probably you're

00:03:43.260 right that when Biden takes office and Republicans start saying bad things about what he's doing,

00:03:49.280 when he's under the microscope, the Democrats are going to take a page out of Trump's book and say,

00:03:53.980 fake news. And do you think part of the problem is, Megan, is the fact is, is that the media

00:04:00.300 simply can't monetize itself anymore. Therefore, they have to go more and more into advocacy,

00:04:05.640 journalism and so on and so forth? That's a good question. I don't think that was it. I think it

00:04:12.060 really was ideological. I think the shift was heartfelt by institutions like The Times and

00:04:19.340 CNN. I mean, MSNBC had already been going left and now it's just fully established over there

00:04:24.180 way on the left. I think Trump brought out the worst in them and they just couldn't see past

00:04:31.460 his rhetoric and his weird tweets and you know there's no question he's thin-skinned and petty

00:04:35.720 and picks up every fight as opposed to just the ones that need fighting um and they turned it into

00:04:41.640 he's a nazi you know like he if you like him you're part of the clan you know that's i think

00:04:47.940 they really see it that way and that's why they felt they were the good guys they had the white

00:04:53.100 hats on and trump and his supporters had the black hats on this is a fight for nobility um

00:04:59.620 And the fact that Trump helped their bottom line didn't lead them to want his re-election.

00:05:06.580 You know, so that's that's sort of evidence that it's truly ideological for them to get rid of him, to hurt him, to demonize his supporters.

00:05:14.520 And looking on into the future now, we see Biden more than likely or probably will be inaugurated.

00:05:21.220 But the thing is, is that the liberal media have very much painted it as a return to the status quo.

00:05:26.700 very much now we're going to see Biden and everything is going to be progressing as it

00:05:31.760 once was. Do you think that's the case? Or do you think because of what's happened with Trump,

00:05:36.120 everything has changed forever? Well, I think most Republicans are saying

00:05:40.100 that's the problem. They don't want to return to the status quo. You know, well, they wanted a

00:05:45.960 chaotic presidency. They wanted somebody to bust all the stuff up. And it hasn't been fully busted.

00:05:51.400 And there are other institutions that could still use, you know, a really good look underneath the

00:05:56.060 that we're not going to get.

00:05:58.280 When I was just doing a pod today with J.D. Vance,

00:06:01.640 you know, the author of Hillbilly Elegy,

00:06:03.560 and I'd been looking into the stats

00:06:04.820 on manufacturing in this country.

00:06:06.480 And, you know, we lost 200,000 manufacturing jobs

00:06:08.940 under President Obama.

00:06:10.500 And President Trump, we gained 500,000.

00:06:13.360 You ask people in the Rust Belt,

00:06:15.140 whether, you know, these white working class folks,

00:06:17.300 whether what they want is a return to the status quo.

00:06:20.180 They don't want that.

00:06:21.440 But the liberals will tell you, but it's the environment.

00:06:23.440 If you're not pro, you know, reforming the environment and protecting the environment, you're an animal. And the white working class guys in the Rust Belt are thinking, but I need to put food on my table and my kids need a place to sleep at night. And I don't feel like an animal for wanting a job. Right.

00:06:40.120 So that that's sort of how it gets painted. And I think in terms of institutional norms, it'll get a little quieter with Biden, for sure.

00:06:48.160 He's not going to he's not going to be calling out, you know, the credibility of the FBI.

00:06:52.420 And he's certainly not going to be attacking the media all the time because he's going to be writing nice things about him.

00:06:56.120 Well, is it at least over now, Megan, this extreme divisiveness, the acceleration of some kind of destructive process, which is what we are seeing over the sea here, just, you know, violence in the streets from both sides, people just going absolutely nuts everywhere.

00:07:15.940 Is it finally over? Can we, you know, Uncle Joe is in there. He's going to look after everybody. He's going to be nice. He's going to ratchet down the, you know, the tempers. Are we in the sunny uplands of peace and loveliness?

00:07:30.520 Hell no.

00:07:33.200 Look, this didn't start under Trump at all.

00:07:36.660 You know, the nation was getting more divided and more polarized.

00:07:39.480 And the eight years under Obama were extremely divisive.

00:07:43.980 People forget President Obama seized control of one-sixth of the U.S. economy and revamped

00:07:52.760 people's health care in a way that did not have majority buy-in here in the United States.

00:07:58.100 there was a whole election and he crammed Obamacare down the throats of the American people

00:08:03.640 without 51% support. And I don't think he's ever been forgiven for that. And I think that led to

00:08:12.300 the rise of the Tea Party. People had to pretend the Tea Party was about race. It wasn't. It was

00:08:16.300 about Obamacare and government spending out of control. Obama weighed in needlessly on numerous

00:08:23.740 cases involving police officers and black defendants where he made race an issue where

00:08:28.940 it wasn't clear it had anything to do with the matter. And people found that divisive. I could

00:08:33.520 go on. But to pretend this is all a Trump thing is nonsense. He was a symptom of our growing divide,

00:08:39.100 not the cause of it. And there's been nothing to stop that. And Sleepy Joe, I mean, I'll tell you,

00:08:45.140 you know, back when I was a kid and my grandparents used to go sleep when I was

00:08:48.300 spending my summers at their boatyard in upstate New York. We go wild. When the grandpa's asleep,

00:08:54.920 you go wild. You don't calm down because he's asleep. I think it's going to happen with Sleepy

00:09:00.240 Joe. And do you not think that he is going to try and help the white working class voters,

00:09:06.560 many of whom voted for him, many of whom supported him? Do you not think they're going to identify

00:09:11.580 that voter base and think, right, in order to help heal America, we need to help these people?

00:09:18.300 There's no reason to believe it, other than his rhetoric about Scranton. There's no reason to believe it yet. He's talking about putting an end to the oil and gas industry. How's that going to help the 30,000 people working and fracking in Pennsylvania? I don't see it.

00:09:34.080 You know, back to the manufacturing in states like Ohio and Illinois and elsewhere.

00:09:39.400 What's his plan for them?

00:09:40.460 Because he's talking about bringing back those environmental regulations that crush their jobs.

00:09:45.680 I don't see any appetite to continue the trade war with China, which hurt some farmers, but really helped manufacturers.

00:09:52.140 So I don't, if he plans on doing that, I'm open-eyed, but I haven't seen it.

00:09:58.040 What about the tone of politics, Megan?

00:09:59.840 Because whether you're on the left or on the right, Francis and I, Francis is very much on the left, I'm sort of in the center.

00:10:05.220 You can't help but notice just how we've descended into some kind of abyss.

00:10:10.520 And is it all Trump's from here on in?

00:10:12.380 I mean, if you look at the far left in America, you've got AOC, who I would say is pretty much Trump on the left, you know, in her rhetoric and the way that she behaves and in some of the way she attacks her own side when she doesn't feel that it's doing the right thing and so on.

00:10:26.960 Is it all Trump's all the way down from here?

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00:10:53.740 2026 the princess of wales theater get tickets at mirvish.com that's hard to say i i wouldn't say

00:11:01.960 so i mean i think trump is a very unique figure and i think aoc wishes she were a trump-like

00:11:07.960 figure in terms of her ability to attract attention yeah she's interesting to me as well

00:11:12.720 she's young she's a whippersnapper she's seems unafraid but you know there's only one trump and

00:11:18.040 he spent a lifetime building up his brand, his personal brand, and this personality,

00:11:23.220 this P.T. Barnum-like, larger-than-life personality. There's no one else like him.

00:11:27.820 You know, for better or for worse, there's no one else like him. So I don't know. I used to say if

00:11:32.300 the Democrats really wanted to beat Trump, they would run like the rock, you know? Somebody who's

00:11:38.380 just beloved kind of universally and might be able to transcend politics. But it's not AOC. I mean,

00:11:46.660 unless the Democratic Party completely abandons what its core principles have been up until the

00:11:52.360 past couple of years, she's not the leader of that party. So I don't know. I think people will

00:12:00.900 settle. I do think there's truth to the reporting that there are a lot of Republicans. Ben Sasse

00:12:05.940 certainly has been mentioned, but even like Rick Scott of Florida was mentioned in a report

00:12:09.360 recently as sort of being a little relieved that the Trump era is over. They can lower their

00:12:14.920 shoulders a little. Not everything is a huge battle where their voter base is being threatened

00:12:19.680 to be taken away from them. Maybe we'll see a little more compromise, but it's going to stay

00:12:26.180 tribal and it's going to stay ugly. It's interesting that you say that. You don't think

00:12:31.000 that there is a figure on the landscape who has that power to bring people together? Because in

00:12:35.840 England, we seem to be having the same problems that you have in America. Or do you think it's

00:12:40.700 just going to get worse and worse? See, I don't see how they do bring us together. You know,

00:12:45.980 I know Biden's out there saying, we're united. I mean, he's using past tense just upon him,

00:12:51.400 you know, declaring victory. United, healed. No, we aren't. We're neither. And we're not going to

00:12:57.140 be. What he means is unite around my agenda. And unless you can get the country to do that,

00:13:02.620 we're going to stay divided. The right half of the country is not going to unite around

00:13:07.240 ending oil and gas, they're not going to unite around a pro-choice agenda, which is, you know,

00:13:12.380 the Republican Party is deeply pro-life. I mean, flip it the other way. What if, what if a President

00:13:16.680 Trump in a second term said, unite around me, you know, come support my pro-life agenda. The

00:13:22.540 Democrats would be like, I don't think so. Right. These are core beliefs and people are in a fighting

00:13:29.460 mood. You know, just look at what's happening to you guys and what, you know, you talk about

00:13:32.920 on your podcast. And what's important to me too, which is this whole crazy cancel culture,

00:13:38.120 you know, woke culture fight. Are you ready to surrender on that? I'm not. If that's what,

00:13:44.060 am I surrendering to people who don't believe in the first amendment and believe people should get

00:13:47.520 their lives ruined and their jobs taken away just for saying something somebody you don't even know

00:13:53.060 has deemed inappropriate? Hell no. I'm perfectly willing to stand up to that, up to those bullies,

00:13:59.720 no matter who's in the white house. And I'm not uniting around anybody who tells me they

00:14:02.900 feel differently. Right. So these are the forces we're both up against right now. Do you think

00:14:07.760 from a cultural point of view, Megan, you mentioned that issue and you can take it further and talk

00:14:12.480 about wokeness and critical race theory and all of this stuff that's being injected into our

00:14:17.320 society. Do you think that maybe I don't think it's going to happen? I don't think you think

00:14:21.500 it's going to happen. But if Joe Biden went, you know what? We're in the White House now.

00:14:26.580 Let's just park that. Let's deal with unemployment. Let's deal with coronavirus. Let's deal with

00:14:32.320 jobs let's okay look i have a different view to trump on china but let's be a little bit more

00:14:36.580 robust than we have been let's tackle the issues that ordinary americans black white latino left

00:14:43.280 right up down the issues that unite us all we want you know to be able to put food on the table for

00:14:48.740 our children to go to school and for it to be good and safe all of those things that used to be the

00:14:53.680 way that you bring people together if you just park that critical race theory wokeness cancel

00:14:59.100 culture stuff to the side which he hasn't shown a lot of affinity for so far personally uh do you

00:15:05.200 think that would be the way to do it no because he has to deal with his party i'm trying to get

00:15:11.140 you to say something positive here megan i just i mean i'd love to be able to i'm an optimist by

00:15:16.180 nature but i don't see it here it's not going to work because his own party is pushing it not the

00:15:21.180 not the vast majority of democrats on the left they don't i don't think they really want cancel

00:15:25.460 culture or that BS. But the faction within the Democratic Party, the established capital left,

00:15:30.900 is loud enough and annoying enough that they're not going to go away just because Joe Biden

00:15:36.300 doesn't push their agenda. Take a look at that leaked phone call that the Democrats had a couple

00:15:41.740 days after the election, where you had a representative from Virginia, a woman, saying,

00:15:46.440 we got to back off of this Black Lives Matter defund the police stuff immediately and back

00:15:53.800 off of aligning with politicians who are for socialism. That's killing us. It's killing more

00:16:00.440 moderate Democrats, which is the bulk of the party. And the response from those so-called squad,

00:16:06.180 Rashida Tlaib and others was, what you're saying is black lives don't matter. What you're saying

00:16:10.580 is you don't want to help black people at all and you want them to shut up. So it's like, okay,

00:16:15.440 those are the two binary choices. Couldn't it be something else? Like they matter, but it's not

00:16:20.220 smart to defund the police which by the way black people don't support um so so let's so number one

00:16:25.700 no he's not going to happen because his own party won't let it but number two i agree with you and

00:16:31.080 i think a lot of people believe that joe biden is like he's more moderate he's not into this crazy

00:16:36.140 stuff he's more of the moderate dem who doesn't support that stuff okay i'm open-minded to that

00:16:41.340 i would love it if it were true what what are two of his first acts uh as presumptive president

00:16:48.280 elect number one he has said he's bringing back critical race theory mandated sessions into our

00:16:53.180 federal government well there's just some good news on the horizon for all of us so there's that

00:16:59.040 so he's already said he's bringing him back so you're going to have to go sit now you're working

00:17:03.140 in the department of treasury you got to be told you're a white supremacist just because you happen

00:17:06.460 to be born with a certain pigmentation and number two awful awful news i think he's bringing back

00:17:14.900 these, the complete elimination of due process for young men accused of sexual assault on college

00:17:21.400 campuses. This is a huge deal, huge here. You know, I practiced law for 10 years and I am very pro

00:17:28.380 woman and very anti harassment and sexual assault as most sane people know about me. But in an effort

00:17:36.220 to overcorrect a system that was biased against those claims, we totally overcorrected and swung

00:17:41.180 the pendulum over here to where it's like you're a man you're guilty and it's bad on college campuses

00:17:48.260 in this country under Obama thanks to an Obama policy if you got accused as a man you would have

00:17:54.440 no right to confront your accuser you can't cross-examine her no right to discovery so if

00:17:59.920 she's got text messages or emails saying he didn't really do anything I'm just having the Sunday

00:18:04.040 morning regrets you'll never know about them no right to bring a lawyer into these crazy kangaroo

00:18:09.880 courts on campuses where you get tried for your name, for your reputation, for your ability to

00:18:15.880 stay as a student by some losers who are usually affiliated with the sexual assault, you know,

00:18:21.740 victims unit. They're not objective observers. And then once you're labeled a sex offender,

00:18:27.360 expelled from the college and with no place else to go, even if you get it reversed at a district

00:18:32.380 court level, the school has the right to say, we're not changing our mind. So Trump, one of

00:18:38.060 the great things he did through betsy devos was to reverse that to say this is crazy that we don't

00:18:42.100 we shouldn't be doing that what one of biden's first announcements is i'm switching it back

00:18:46.980 switching it so i don't believe biden's going to be anti-woke i think either he believes that stuff

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00:20:03.300 And Megan, how has it come to this point? You look at America, you look at everything that

00:20:10.260 America has created. It is a hub of innovation. And you look at these two political candidates.

00:20:15.380 And for my mind, they were both pretty crap, to be honest with you.

00:20:19.800 Why is it we don't have better leaders and politicians in America?

00:20:24.580 Well, I mean, look at what we do to them. It's horrible. I mean, people say to me all the time,

00:20:31.220 Will you run for office? Run for office. I'm like, talk about jumping out of the frying pan

00:20:35.640 and into the fire. No, thanks. I mean, you blow up your life. Look what happened to Brett Kavanaugh.

00:20:43.040 He was nominated. He's a judge minding his own business. He nominated for one of the most

00:20:47.020 prestigious judgeships in the nation on the U.S. Supreme Court. They called him a gang rapist

00:20:52.880 like with no foundation so it's not that attractive a role right and I think most people

00:21:01.600 right now they're afraid to be called a bigot or racist or sexist or what have you just if they

00:21:06.940 like a tweet and so like the thought of actually running for office and being able to say how you

00:21:13.320 feel and taking a stance on some of these issues unless you're the wokest of the woke and no one

00:21:18.020 can ever say anything you know you're an ist of any kind it's not that attractive only psychopaths

00:21:23.740 need apply which is what happens uh megan it's you know what strikes me about our conversation

00:21:29.280 we're sitting here i i think you're is it fair to say you're sort of center right politically

00:21:34.460 right on i would say more things than i am center left on but i got a couple on the center left that

00:21:39.700 i'm on too right and francis is center left i am pretty much slap bang in the center and yet as i

00:21:44.880 playback our conversation so far in my head on the spectrum as it exists today at least on twitter

00:21:51.360 and this is maybe something we'll get into this is coming across as like a super right-wing

00:21:56.260 conversation whereas really all the three of us are talking about is sanity you know having some

00:22:02.240 sanity in our public discourse do you think the spectrum has shifted so far to the left do you

00:22:08.120 think it's the domination of certain types of media and the domination left-thinking people

00:22:13.620 on social media how is it that the three of us are suddenly you know have shifted so far in the

00:22:20.020 direction that none of us recognize i think yeah i know we might we might now be conservative

00:22:24.040 republicans like whoa right like just a few years ago these would have been totally normal accepted

00:22:31.940 positions and now i i don't know he says soon people will be calling us alt-right um i do think

00:22:38.280 that the media has played a major role in it because they are either woke or they get off

00:22:44.120 on being seen as woke or sympathetic to wokeness. And it's a problem because Madge, my imaginary

00:22:51.340 viewer who sits in Iowa and she works all day, she takes care of her kids. She just turns on

00:22:55.760 the news at night just to catch up on things. She's being told she's awful unless she thinks

00:23:00.620 like Don Lemon. Heaven forbid, right? So it's like, that's not good for Madge. That's not good

00:23:07.040 for the country um and so the media i do think pulls people into a reality distortion field

00:23:15.540 and makes them feel like the whole country thinks you know it's it's whatever it's racist unless you

00:23:23.800 willingly subject yourself to white privilege sessions before you walk into your corporate job

00:23:29.000 and if you don't want to do that you're racist and they don't hear as much from the other half

00:23:33.740 of the country, even more than half, it says, huh, what? Because we're afraid. Most people are

00:23:39.760 afraid. So that's, I think, because we're talking right now about cancel culture. To me, it's a

00:23:44.040 First Amendment thing here and sort of fighting a massive battle about process. The cancel culture

00:23:50.700 thing is an argument about process. Are we going to be open-minded to new ideas that the far left

00:23:57.800 in particular wants us to be open to and just swallow them whole without questioning? Or are

00:24:03.560 we allowed to talk about them in ways that may be imperfect and decide for ourselves and to me the

00:24:10.280 process by which we evolve and consider new ideas and sometimes reject them is very important and

00:24:17.560 worth fighting for and you know the old saying like without letting people weigh in you'll get

00:24:21.800 no buy-in it's true who are you going to convince like gender is a social construct without

00:24:28.780 convincing them like well i don't think so i think there are two genders male and female and people

00:24:34.420 who aren't sure or have chosen neither camp but like biology says there are two bigot raise you

00:24:42.120 know whatever transphobe that doesn't help so we have to keep fighting for process and if that

00:24:47.300 makes us right okay then i'm right if it if it makes us left fine i don't really give a damn

00:24:53.000 what label you put on me what label put on you guys we have to stay in the fight but you say

00:24:58.440 we have to stay in the fight. But for most people, if you work at a corporation, if you have a job,

00:25:03.000 I used to be a school teacher, that's a surefire way for you to lose your job. For most people,

00:25:08.400 they can't get into the fight because they've got too much to lose.

00:25:13.760 I don't think we can stay in that place mentally anymore. I think as Douglas Murray has been

00:25:19.240 writing, and I think he's got it. I think he's got it. It's time for people to stand up and say

00:25:25.500 to their employer, their school, their friends, I refuse to let you re-racialize my country,

00:25:37.560 my company, or myself. I believe in the Martin Luther King content of character instead of color

00:25:45.420 of skin approach to life. And I object to your attempt to try to make me look at my Black

00:25:54.620 colleagues as other. Because what's happening right now with the race issue, I'll start with

00:25:59.940 that one, is racist. They're trying to overcorrect for racism against people of color by becoming

00:26:05.960 racist against whites, and then tell us that's not possible. You can't be racist against whites

00:26:10.620 because they're in the power position, the majority position. Well, that's nonsense. You can

00:26:13.960 be. And I think unless people start standing up, and I include Black people in this, Black

00:26:18.340 conservatives feel as we do, you know, and most Black liberals do too. It's only the Black leftists

00:26:23.200 and white leftists who are like, no, talk the way I want. People need to stand up. On the trans

00:26:28.840 issues, farming out cross-sex hormones to 12-year-olds, allowing prepubescent girls to go

00:26:40.100 on drugs, to transition, allowing 16-year-old girls to get double mastectomies in an effort to

00:26:48.140 support them when gender dysmorphia, this belief you're in the wrong body,

00:26:54.940 traditionally, historically, doesn't even affect girls. It affects boys, people who are a born boy

00:27:01.100 and identify as girl. Anyway, we have to be able to talk about it. We must. And so the time has

00:27:07.100 passed for, I'm afraid, because like real harm's being done. We are getting more divided racially

00:27:12.440 Because of these programs, our young people are getting hurt because of these loud mouths who are shaming everybody from speaking up.

00:27:20.900 Like Martina Navarrola did the right thing when she said, I've got concerns about these trans girls competing against cis girls, meaning girls who are born girl and still identify as girl.

00:27:30.500 She got shamed.

00:27:31.700 She should have stuck to her guns.

00:27:33.440 She cowered, right?

00:27:34.960 J.K. Rowling, I admire.

00:27:36.160 I might not agree with everything she said, but I admire her for taking a position, standing by it, trying to start a conversation.

00:27:42.440 I realize she's a billionaire. But there's safety in numbers. So if you can find more numbers in your corporation, in your school, in your community, you'll come to realize you're not alone. And this is a fight that needs fighting.

00:27:53.820 This is one of the reasons we started the show. And we've been talking about these issues, all the issues you mentioned, because we recognize, you know, I grew up in the Soviet Union. I'm from Russia and grew up there.

00:28:04.760 And I increasingly recognize in our modern society in the West the exact feelings and experience that my parents and grandparents told me about when I was growing up, which was everybody's afraid.

00:28:17.420 Everybody knows that they're being forced to swallow propaganda that isn't true.

00:28:21.300 And yet speaking out against it has very direct and very real consequences for you.

00:28:27.020 But, I mean, I just, I don't know what the hell is it, Megan,

00:28:30.800 because you are uncancellable, I think would be fair to say.

00:28:34.960 We are sort of there as well.

00:28:37.100 You know, we know that, but, you know, with the power of big tech,

00:28:40.360 maybe that's not true either.

00:28:41.740 Maybe they'll be able to shut you and us down as well over time.

00:28:45.620 And for ordinary people, as Francis said, you know,

00:28:48.500 their ability to destroy your life is just, it's so overwhelming.

00:28:54.560 I just wonder how enough of us can speak out together at the same time.

00:29:00.300 Well, I think we need to remember that while you guys and I and some others may be vocal about it, we are no way, by no means alone.

00:29:10.340 Those 74 million people who voted for Trump in this country, they're with us.

00:29:14.920 They don't buy into this, at least in America.

00:29:16.820 We're divided right down the middle.

00:29:19.340 And I can say I don't know a single Republican who's bought into this woke nonsense.

00:29:24.020 And a fair amount of my Democrat friends,

00:29:27.120 I'm on the Upper West Side of Manhattan here.

00:29:28.780 This is as liberal as it gets.

00:29:30.360 New York went 87% for Biden.

00:29:32.460 There's a very, very small Republican contingent here.

00:29:35.860 But all my friends who are Democrats,

00:29:38.600 I, virtually none of them,

00:29:40.540 only like one or two are woke.

00:29:42.940 They're all normal Democrats who are like,

00:29:44.980 what is this?

00:29:45.620 What is this nonsense?

00:29:46.560 I don't want this.

00:29:47.880 So they're gettable.

00:29:49.100 They're just afraid.

00:29:50.080 so you just need more and more people to say you know just to borrow a phrase me too I'm against

00:29:57.540 this too I don't like what you're doing and I actually think one of the ways forward maybe

00:30:02.920 what's happening in the schools because I think we'll stand up for our children in a way we won't

00:30:07.780 stand up for ourselves I think we'll take greater risks if it's to protect our kids like you're

00:30:13.300 going to sit and tell my kid that he or she is an oppressor, a bad person, historically awful

00:30:21.460 because pigmentation that he or she was born with and because of generations ago behavior that she

00:30:27.200 has no control over. No, you're not. I'm going to step in. We're going to stop that or we're going

00:30:32.860 to leave. But parents are more willing, I think, to take a stance when they come to realize what

00:30:37.460 the indoctrination happening at that level. And I just like, did you see the woman at Smith

00:30:42.980 jody can't remember her last name you gotta look this woman up there's a woman at smith college

00:30:49.160 far left institution here in the states who um got out a little microphone and started doing

00:30:56.720 little facebook posts you know her yeah she's like i don't like what's being said to me and

00:31:02.160 my colleagues about race i don't like being told i have to look at everyone and assume something

00:31:07.980 about them based on their skin color. I think we should be able to talk about that without fear of

00:31:14.060 getting fired. And I looked up the law and I realized you can't fire me for trying to start

00:31:18.900 this conversation. This conversation is protected. And I would like others to join the conversation.

00:31:24.740 I mean, it's happening. If she can do it at Smith College, but why are the rest of us such wusses?

00:31:30.080 Like man up, woman up, you know, let's get it on because it's time to fight. And if you,

00:31:35.680 have others with you, you can win. If you told me 10 years ago that if you stood up and fought

00:31:43.640 for women's right not to be sexually harassed at the office, I would have said, so good,

00:31:47.680 kiss your job goodbye. But the reason women started doing it and it started working

00:31:53.180 is because there's safety in numbers. We had each other's backs. And I think people who are where

00:32:00.560 we are need to band together and come up with real plans and be prepared to have each other's

00:32:06.080 backs. And I'll just say one more point. Lawyers, lawyers can help because it's not lawful to fire

00:32:12.500 somebody for refusing to racialize themselves. It's not like we have rights to to not be forced

00:32:19.380 into these divisions. And I think more and more lawyers need to sort of raise their hands and say,

00:32:24.440 I'll be the person. I'll help you. I got I understand the law and I understand what they

00:32:28.100 can and cannot do to you to make you feel comfortable before you do go to your company and say

00:32:32.880 do you think the mainstream media are biased yes that's why you watch trigonometry but we all still

00:32:44.540 read the news and the thing you really want to be doing is comparing how different publications

00:32:49.160 cover the same story that's where ground news come in drawing from 40 000 media outlets around

00:32:56.140 the world and over 30,000 news stories per day, they empower you to arrive at the truth yourself.

00:33:03.160 Don't do that. Just watch Trigonometry. Everyone here at Trigonometry loves ground news because

00:33:07.560 they've got so many brilliant features. But there's one feature in particular that we all

00:33:11.800 find incredibly useful. It's the blind spot feature. It is the news blind spot. And what

00:33:16.740 this allows you to see is what your particular media that you're consuming, whether you're right

00:33:21.640 or left is not covering there are certain issues that the right-wing media will never cover and

00:33:26.980 therefore if you only watch the right wing you won't know equally on the left it's the same thing

00:33:31.060 and what the news blind spot allows you to do is to get the information that the people who you're

00:33:36.380 getting your media from are not telling you and they've also got an amazing website which is

00:33:41.260 ground.news for those of us who live in the 21st century unlike frances and have phones

00:33:46.660 just download the app from wherever you get your arms

00:33:51.640 And Megan, what do you think is going to be the end game if people don't stand up?

00:33:56.660 Oh my God, I hesitate to think. I mean, I think Don Lemon is going to be our ruler.

00:34:02.580 Seriously, is it people like that who are just trying to police every word you say and how you say it?

00:34:07.760 And life will be full of dull, non-offensive, totally politically correct talk until people go underground and have their real conversations at dinner parties they're worried are being monitored by the East Germans.

00:34:21.280 It's like, that's where we're heading.

00:34:23.680 You're not really going to stop people from having their views, from having their conversations.

00:34:28.060 You're just going to take it underground.

00:34:30.040 You know, I had a conversation on my pod with Glenn Lowry and Coleman Hughes a week ago.

00:34:33.940 Glenn is this amazing professor at Brown University who's a black man who's very heterodox in his views as a conservative guy.

00:34:41.820 And we started talking about, is it better to have a white friend who says everything perfectly toward you as a black person?

00:34:48.240 or is it better to have a white friend who missteps from time to time or even offends

00:34:52.460 but is trying and both he and coleman said the latter 100 and glenn was saying wouldn't it be

00:34:59.620 interesting because i was saying i try to raise these issues at like dinner parties let's say

00:35:04.380 where they're all white people they're afraid people are looking at me like oh my god it's

00:35:10.040 she's talking about race and i'm like come on let's talk let me talk to you about what glenn

00:35:16.440 is saying, what Coleman is saying, what Shelby Steele is saying, what Thomas Sowell is saying.

00:35:19.580 It's really interesting and it may not be what you've heard. And he was saying it'd be so

00:35:24.420 fascinating for him as a black man to be a fly on the wall watching white people trying to navigate

00:35:32.500 that conversation. What do they say? How do they sound? And so I think like the more real the

00:35:40.400 conversations can be, even if we falter, the better off we are and the less we're able to

00:35:46.040 speak about how we feel the more alienated resentful you know that's how you get like

00:35:52.260 white flight out of a community right and um people saying of course I support all the

00:35:58.000 transgender community but then they're not going to hire one right like they start to feel other

00:36:02.080 eyes they start to feel like I got to go back into my little posse um and I'll say one other

00:36:08.160 thing I see it in the me too movement which began with noble purposes stop making women's advancement

00:36:15.020 at the office dependent on granting sexual favors to a superior, right? And then it morphed into

00:36:21.160 something very different and pernicious, which is more like you make one mistake after a 30-year

00:36:27.800 career and you had a glass of wine at lunch and you put your hand on my shoulder, you're done.

00:36:32.520 Guess what that does for women? Keeps us out of the C-suite level. No male CEO is going to want

00:36:38.920 to advance a woman up to the executive suite when he thinks she can ruin him with one unsupported

00:36:44.560 allegation. That's where it's morphed. That's dangerous. And we can't let that happen with

00:36:49.780 black-white issues, with trans-cis issues, with straight-bi or gay and lesbian issues,

00:36:56.380 because the groups in power need buy-in. So I'm appealing now to the woke. If you want,

00:37:03.300 if you really want to change things, the groups in power still need to be your advocates. I say

00:37:07.620 to my fellow women, we need men to help us. They're still in power. They run all of corporate

00:37:11.520 America, not to mention politics. What good does it do us to totally alienate them? They're not

00:37:16.420 going to want to be around us. I mean, they'll say it openly. They're not actually going to

00:37:20.300 choose our resume over that of a guy if they think we're on the hunt to bring them down after one

00:37:25.920 misstep. And the same is true with these other minority groups. They may not like it, but it's

00:37:30.300 a reality. It's an interesting point you made. And you answered Francis' question earlier with

00:37:35.120 this as well in terms of the end game. And it made me really sad because I remember when I was

00:37:39.860 a kid i was a huge i played basketball all day every day for hours i watched the nba it was

00:37:46.360 it was incredible for me i loved it and my biggest hero growing up was michael jordan

00:37:51.100 and i don't think it occurred to me that he was black until i was like 32 or something

00:37:56.520 because you're a racist well that definitely is true but um you know it's because it never

00:38:02.820 occurred to me because his race was irrelevant what mattered was this was an incredible player

00:38:08.520 first of all, who was an inspirational leader. He demanded the most of himself and of his teammates.

00:38:14.440 He never, you know, he won every single finals that he got to. He was a man that I could look

00:38:19.400 up to. And I know, you know, friends of mine from all over the world, Chinese, Hongkongese, Russian,

00:38:25.960 British, who were inspired by that man without even ever thinking about his race. And yet,

00:38:31.640 if I have children now and they look at the NBA, which they probably wouldn't at this stage,

00:38:35.480 But if they did, they wouldn't be able to have that unadulterated experience.

00:38:41.000 The first thing they would notice about a player was that he was of a different race.

00:38:46.920 I mean, it's terrible, isn't it?

00:38:49.400 I think so.

00:38:50.340 And that's the craziness that I interjected with is directly from Robin DiAngelo, who,

00:38:56.000 you know, wrote White Fragility and her whole theory, which is being accepted now.

00:39:00.760 it's being taught in schools, is that if you don't see color as a white person, that's your

00:39:06.200 racism. And that white people are supposed to walk into every room by saying, I apologize on

00:39:13.960 behalf of my race and myself, and I will devote myself the rest of my life to working to make it

00:39:19.060 up. Like, what? You need to take that off me. I'm English. When I walk into a room, I apologize

00:39:25.260 anyway so good keep it up that's how we like you mate ridiculous and i do think it's it's like i

00:39:33.120 see it in my kids who have their best friends are black but two out of my three kids have best

00:39:39.500 friends who are black and literally they they see it they see color they see skin color in the same

00:39:45.580 way they see eye color and hair color they have no no natural inclination against somebody of a

00:39:51.720 different race at all until the schools sit them down and say, one of you is the oppressed

00:39:56.940 and one of you is the oppressor. And, you know, we're in these private schools. So pretty much

00:40:02.240 everybody in these schools is like a kid of somebody who went to Yale and is on Wall Street

00:40:06.120 and is on, you know, some super powered law firm. And still we're being divided by our skin color

00:40:13.500 and told one of you is somebody who takes advantage and one of you is somebody who's

00:40:18.320 disadvantage. And it's such an undermining message. And it's so reductive of somebody to take them

00:40:25.200 down just to their pigmentation or their lady parts or their sexual orientation. I guess I

00:40:32.360 feel like the people who are in those minority groups, whether it's women, Black people, trans

00:40:38.580 people, gay and lesbian, they need to lead the fight against this. You know, if more folks in

00:40:44.880 the affected groups would stand up like a Glenn Lowry or like a me, like a Guy Benson who's openly

00:40:51.400 gay, he's a Republican, and say, we don't want your help like this. We don't like this. We're

00:40:58.540 trying to make our thing not a thing. We're trying to make, we don't want to be like, I don't want to

00:41:04.320 be judged because I'm a woman. I don't want to be called a female journalist. I'm a journalist. You

00:41:09.480 can assess me based on that. They're trying to switch it all around. And I feel like maybe the

00:41:14.360 answer is to get more of these people in the minority or the targeted groups to stand up and

00:41:18.960 push back against the white liberals here on the Upper West Side who are running this thing.

00:41:25.220 And why do you think it is that, number one, this theory seems to have come up for me out of

00:41:30.740 nowhere? And number two, why is it that all these people who you would think are intelligent,

00:41:35.120 have wonderful degrees and all the rest of it, highly educated, seem to be spouting it without

00:41:40.620 even questioning it well they want most of them are from academia which is incredibly left and

00:41:46.540 incredibly woke and there's really no deviation from that norm i mean the only reason glenn gets

00:41:51.980 away with it is because he is black and he is brilliant and it's really hard to shut somebody

00:42:00.140 like that up it's a beautiful thing to watch because he's fearless but like if you as a white

00:42:04.720 guy started to say those things at brown you'd probably get fired no i paid i paid to watch that

00:42:10.360 Megan. But listen, I know you've got to run. So let us ask you the question we ask all our guests

00:42:17.680 before we let them go, which is what is the one thing that no one is talking about that we really

00:42:22.680 should be? That's a good question. I guess, I mean, like the things that I'm thinking about

00:42:33.060 really are being they are being discussed um i don't i'm in news so all my information comes

00:42:40.220 from publicly available sources but i am worried about for me that the discussion has shifted too

00:42:45.940 much to wokeness and not enough to socioeconomic shifts like that's the divide we need to be

00:42:51.080 talking about that's the thing you know one of the schools here in in new york there's a push to get

00:42:55.840 free tutoring for the black students only no hispanic kids no white kids what about the kids

00:43:02.020 who are of low, lower socioeconomic status, why don't they get it? Why, why should black kids

00:43:08.040 whose parents went to Harvard be getting the tutoring? And like the kid who's, you know,

00:43:14.120 mom has cancer and has no dad in the picture, but happens to have white skin, not get it.

00:43:18.200 I just think we have to be focused a little bit more on this. And we started right after Trump

00:43:22.180 got elected to take a look at sort of the forgotten underclass. And then people just

00:43:27.480 got so mad at Trump and started talking about race, racist, bigot, Nazi, about him and his

00:43:33.460 supporters, we kind of forgot the humanity of that group. And it's not just whites, you know,

00:43:39.120 it's whites, it's blacks, it's Latinos, by the way, who turned out in droves for Trump, I think in

00:43:44.180 large part because of his economic policies. But they're the ones who need our help. We don't need

00:43:48.700 to be divided based on this other stuff, which we cannot control. There is a real divide based on

00:43:54.120 money and advantage when it comes to class. Until we address that, we're not going to make a lot of

00:44:00.820 headway in terms of uniting. That is a very good point. Megan, your podcast is brilliant. So before

00:44:07.220 we let you go, finally, tell everybody where they can check that out and where they should follow

00:44:11.160 you on social media as well. Oh, thank you. Well, it's free and you can get it wherever podcasts

00:44:15.360 are available and just download the Megan Kelly show and then you can subscribe and rate it and

00:44:19.900 give it five stars and all that fun stuff. I'm learning the language, you guys. But I think

00:44:24.120 you'll like it because we're taking a very honest look at all these issues. And, you know, as I say

00:44:29.280 on the pod, we're just sort of unafraid. We're going to go to all the places. And one of the

00:44:35.420 things that is good, one advantage of doing this as me is it gets attention, right? I always say

00:44:42.200 loved, hated, never ignored. That's good. I appreciate that for once because I want attention

00:44:48.920 to these things.

00:44:49.960 I don't want this conversation

00:44:51.620 to be happening in a bubble

00:44:53.000 where nobody hears it.

00:44:54.180 I want more and more thought leaders

00:44:55.400 to hear it and participate in it

00:44:56.900 and be emboldened to do it themselves.

00:45:00.100 Well, it is genuinely brilliant.

00:45:01.500 You've had a number of guests

00:45:02.560 who we've been privileged

00:45:03.520 to have on our show as well.

00:45:04.820 So we thoroughly recommend

00:45:06.620 if you've enjoyed this interview,

00:45:07.860 you go and check out

00:45:08.720 The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:45:09.800 Megyn, thank you so much for your time.

00:45:11.480 Thank you, guys.

00:45:12.220 It's been a pleasure.

00:45:13.000 See you soon.

00:45:13.720 Thanks. Take care.

00:45:14.740 Cheers. Bye-bye.

00:45:18.920 We'll see you next time.

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TRIGGERnometry - November 29, 2020

Megyn Kelly：＂Biden Presidency Won't Heal America＂

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