TRIGGERnometry - My Life as a Mafia Boss - Michael Franzese

00:00:00.560 You make a mistake, your best friend walks you into a room, you don't walk out again.

00:00:04.360 This guy was so afraid that that was going to happen to him, he goes into a phone booth,

00:00:08.400 calls his wife, tells her he loves her, and then blows his brains out.

00:00:12.480 I have to pray every day not to hate Joe Biden.

00:00:16.440 They stamped out organized crime.

00:00:18.480 They killed my former life.

00:00:20.500 So if you can do it to that powerful an organization, then you can do it with the drugs that are

00:00:25.040 coming into this country, but you're not doing it. 0.95

00:00:27.520 We used to work with Democrats.

00:00:29.480 They were a lot easier to corrupt.

00:00:31.720 That's the truth.

00:00:33.520 They were true. 0.54

00:00:34.860 Republicans, law and order, Democrats, corruptible.

00:00:39.020 Compliance moves fast, and Moody's can help organizations move even faster.

00:00:42.860 Leveraging AI to help you gain quicker insights and reduce bottlenecks.

00:00:46.360 Let Moody's help your organization navigate change with confidence.

00:00:49.480 Visit moody's.com slash kyc slash ai dash study to discover how.

00:00:54.620 Michael Francis, welcome to Trigonometry.

00:00:56.620 Pleasure to be here.

00:00:57.720 Tell us your story.

00:00:59.380 I know you probably have told it a thousand times to most people.

00:01:03.020 For our audience, it's quite new.

00:01:04.800 You're probably the first person from an organized crime background that we've had.

00:01:09.700 You've had a long life, and you've gone out the other end now, and you do work kind of to counter many of the things that you used to be involved in.

00:01:15.480 But tell us, how are you here?

00:01:18.140 Well, it goes back to my days in Brooklyn.

00:01:20.780 My father, Sonny Francis, was the underboss of the Colombo family, one of the five New Yorkers and Oyster families, mafia families, and very prominent figure, very high profile, always under investigation, major target of law enforcement. 0.74

00:01:34.660 And I describe him as kind of the John Gotti of his day, you know?

00:01:38.400 So I grew up with my dad constantly being arrested, constantly, you know, going on trial.

00:01:43.580 We had law enforcement around us all the time, you know, surveilling the family 24 hours a day, seven days a week for years.

00:01:50.380 So I grew up hating law enforcement, hated the government, you know, hated them, you know, because I loved my dad.

00:01:55.580 He was my idol back then.

00:01:57.520 And initially, he didn't want that life for me.

00:01:59.840 He wanted me to go to school, wanted me to be a doctor, actually.

00:02:02.540 And I was on that road until he got in some real trouble in the 60s, indicted three times in the state of New York, twice for grand larceny, once for murder.

00:02:11.380 And that spanned over a couple of years while I'm a student.

00:02:15.240 He beat all of those cases, acquitted at trial.

00:02:18.100 But then he gets indicted in federal court for masterminding a nationwide string of bank robberies.

00:02:23.700 Goes to a lengthy trial, gets convicted.

00:02:25.900 They sentence him to 50 years in prison.

00:02:28.200 Longest sentence for a bank robbery conspiracy case ever given up to that point.

00:02:33.120 1970, loses all his appeals, shipped off to Leavenworth Penitentiary, Kansas, to do his time.

00:02:38.800 I'm a pre-med student at the time, and I'm devastated when dad went in.

00:02:42.940 He was 50.

00:02:44.080 If he had 50 on top of that, he dies in jail, right?

00:02:46.360 But Joe Colombo, the boss of our family, he kind of takes me under his wing, very close with him and his family.

00:02:52.800 Starting to meet a lot of my dad's friends.

00:02:54.560 Mike, what are you doing?

00:02:55.400 Going to school?

00:02:56.200 If you don't help your father out, he's going to die in prison.

00:02:58.760 I lose interest in school.

00:03:00.140 Go see my dad in Leavenworth.

00:03:01.540 He was in a penitentiary.

00:03:03.500 Dad, I'm not going to school.

00:03:04.620 If I don't help you out, he's going to die in here.

00:03:06.300 So we kind of argued a little bit, because initially he didn't want that for me, but he knew my mind was made up.

00:03:11.820 And it was during that meeting that he proposed me for membership in the life.

00:03:16.340 Because he said, if you're going to be on the street to help me, I want you to do it the right way.

00:03:20.560 His mind the right way is to become a member.

00:03:22.380 So he proposes me for membership.

00:03:23.900 And I'm in kind of, I meet with the boss.

00:03:27.560 And Joe Colombo had been shot, seriously wounded.

00:03:30.000 I was actually there the day he got shot.

00:03:32.260 He eventually died from wounds.

00:03:33.700 A new boss took over, Tom DiBella.

00:03:35.540 He's dead now.

00:03:37.020 And I sat with Tom.

00:03:38.420 Mike, I hear you want to become a member of our life.

00:03:41.100 Your father has proposed to you.

00:03:42.320 Yes.

00:03:43.340 Here's the deal.

00:03:44.620 24 hours a day, seven days a week, you're on call to serve this family, the Colombo family.

00:03:49.540 That means if your mother is sick and dying, you're at her bedside.

00:03:52.860 We call you to service.

00:03:53.900 If you leave your mother, you come and serve us. 1.00

00:03:55.980 From now on, we're number one in your life before anything and everything.

00:03:59.480 When and if we feel you deserve this privilege and this honor to become a member, we'll let you know.

00:04:03.760 So people understand, mob is not a business.

00:04:06.440 It's a whole way of life.

00:04:07.740 It's a subculture from everything else that exists.

00:04:10.480 So I'm now a recruit for two and a half years.

00:04:13.840 Mike, can I just interrupt you briefly there?

00:04:15.940 So you're getting, you're sitting there with the boss of this crime family that your father was a part of.

00:04:21.220 Do you, how do you feel when that's happening?

00:04:22.800 Do you feel, oh, I'm about to enter something really cool?

00:04:25.580 As a young man, I imagine that's kind of how you feel?

00:04:27.900 You know, I felt I'm entering something that is special because it's part of what my father's part of.

00:04:35.560 So we're going to have another bond between the two of us.

00:04:38.600 Because like I said, he was my idol.

00:04:39.800 I really loved my dad.

00:04:41.380 So, and I just looked at it.

00:04:42.840 It wasn't, I didn't aspire to be a mob guy all my life.

00:04:45.600 You know, I was going to school, whatever.

00:04:47.140 My dad didn't want me in a life.

00:04:48.480 But now I took it very seriously.

00:04:51.020 This is an organization that, yeah, I'm going to have, I'm going to be proud to be part of.

00:04:55.260 I was, you know, I felt that way about it.

00:04:57.940 So, and for the next two and a half years, I'm a recruit.

00:05:02.920 Had to do anything and everything I was told to do to prove myself worthy.

00:05:06.200 And, you know, I get asked the question all the time.

00:05:08.080 Look, could have been something very menial.

00:05:10.500 A lot of discipline in that life.

00:05:12.020 A lot of authority.

00:05:13.340 You had a meeting at eight o'clock.

00:05:14.700 You weren't there at 730.

00:05:16.340 You're in trouble.

00:05:16.980 You can never be late in that life.

00:05:18.560 I don't care if there's an earthquake.

00:05:20.020 Figure it out.

00:05:20.760 You got to be there, right?

00:05:22.760 Drive the boss to a meeting.

00:05:24.140 Sit in a car three, four, five hours.

00:05:26.600 He comes out.

00:05:27.380 You're not there.

00:05:27.960 You go get a newspaper, the restroom.

00:05:29.840 You're in trouble.

00:05:30.620 A lot of stuff like that.

00:05:32.340 You know, so a lot of things like that.

00:05:35.200 And look, I'm going to be honest.

00:05:36.720 Get it out of the way.

00:05:38.140 The life at times is very violent.

00:05:40.160 You're part of the life.

00:05:41.120 You're part of the violence.

00:05:42.020 It's part of proving your worth in that life.

00:05:44.560 So even in this initial two and a half year period, you're being asked to beat people up,

00:05:49.640 rough people up?

00:05:50.760 Not so much rough people up, but if serious work had to be done, you're called upon to

00:05:55.080 do it.

00:05:55.360 You can't say no.

00:05:56.320 Let's put it that way.

00:05:57.220 And I think you know what I mean.

00:05:58.300 Yeah.

00:05:59.080 And so after two and a half years, proved myself worthy.

00:06:03.020 Halloween night, 1975, I get called into a room with five other gentlemen.

00:06:08.340 And that night we all took an oath and became made members.

00:06:11.000 That's the expression of the Colombo family, gozenostra. 0.86

00:06:15.200 And we went into the room individually.

00:06:17.160 It was a very solemn ceremony, dimly lit room late at night.

00:06:21.280 They didn't want you to, they wanted you to understand the seriousness of what you were

00:06:24.920 getting involved in.

00:06:26.500 And I walked down.

00:06:28.140 It was kind of like a horseshoe configuration.

00:06:30.480 The boss was in the middle, underboss, consulieri to his left and right, two official positions.

00:06:35.340 And then all the Kappa regimes are captains alongside of them. 0.99

00:06:38.600 I think we had about 15 in our family at that point.

00:06:41.780 Walked down the aisle, stood in front of the boss, held out my hand, took a knife right

00:06:45.120 here, cut my finger. 0.64

00:06:46.200 Some blood dropped on the floor.

00:06:47.480 It's a blood oath.

00:06:48.800 I cupped my hands.

00:06:49.820 He took a picture of a saint, Catholic altar card, put it on my hands, lit it aflame.

00:06:53.880 Didn't hurt it, bark quickly.

00:06:55.040 It was symbolic.

00:06:55.820 And he said, tonight, Michael Francis, you are born again into a new life, into Cosa Nostra.

00:07:02.220 Violate what you know about this life.

00:07:03.920 Betray your brothers. 1.00

00:07:04.920 You will die burning hell like this saint is burning in your hands. 1.00

00:07:08.300 Do you accept? 1.00

00:07:09.340 Yes, I do.

00:07:10.620 The other five guys went in.

00:07:11.920 They all took the oath.

00:07:13.060 That's how it starts.

00:07:14.520 And I started out, you're a soldier when you start out.

00:07:17.080 That's an official position.

00:07:19.120 And I was motivated to do two things.

00:07:22.040 One, get my dad out of prison.

00:07:23.460 I did get him out after 10 years on parole.

00:07:26.600 Problem is, he kept going back.

00:07:28.420 He violated five times and ended up doing 40 years on the 50.

00:07:32.800 All on violations.

00:07:34.600 Michael, can I just, when you were taking that blood oath, was there not a part of you

00:07:40.380 thinking to yourself, I'm going to be part of something right now that I'm going to have

00:07:45.820 no control over.

00:07:46.920 I'm going to be stepping into a life of violence, of crime, where my life is at risk every single

00:07:54.800 day.

00:07:55.460 Was there not a part of you that was worried about that?

00:08:00.080 I don't think the word is worry.

00:08:01.860 I think for some crazy reason, I had, it was exhilarating.

00:08:06.400 It was like, you know, I had gone through this two and a half years of sometimes drudgery,

00:08:11.680 sometimes hard stuff, whatever, you know, and now I finally made it, you know, this is it.

00:08:17.880 So it was more exhilarating than anything else.

00:08:20.960 I didn't, you know, it's a crazy thing.

00:08:24.740 You don't look at, well, I may get arrested.

00:08:26.620 I may go to jail. 0.97

00:08:27.420 I might get killed.

00:08:28.220 You don't, I don't know, that night I didn't look at it, even though I experienced a lot

00:08:33.400 along the way, you know, and throughout my life, because I still would help my dad.

00:08:37.800 But it was just more exhilaration that night, quite honestly.

00:08:42.140 Do you think that's a major attraction to that life, particularly for young men who, you

00:08:47.400 know, enjoy the adrenaline, enjoy the risk-taking?

00:08:50.760 That life is a life where you're going to be living on your wits.

00:08:54.760 You know, there's big rewards, but also if things go wrong, there's the ultimate penalty.

00:09:01.540 That gives you like a sense of purpose and excitement, doesn't it?

00:09:04.920 No question.

00:09:05.760 No question.

00:09:06.800 It's interesting that you say that because I speak to a lot of young people now and I go

00:09:12.200 into prisons.

00:09:12.940 I speak to a lot of these juveniles, a lot of gangbangers, and they're so infatuated with

00:09:17.800 the life.

00:09:18.260 You know, oh, Michael, you had the money, you had the cars, you had the women, you had 0.95

00:09:22.580 power, prestige, and they'll point out Goodfellas and Donnie Brasco.

00:09:27.540 And I said, yeah, but did you stay to see the end of the movie?

00:09:31.480 Who got killed?

00:09:32.580 Who went to jail?

00:09:33.480 Who lost everything?

00:09:34.780 They don't see that.

00:09:35.700 Young people don't see that because they think, oh, I can handle that. 0.99

00:09:39.180 It's not going to happen to me.

00:09:41.060 And that's a problem because, yeah, when you're from the outside looking in, it's an attractive

00:09:45.580 life.

00:09:46.420 There's no question.

00:09:47.140 And do you think that also as well, because young men, they want to be part of something.

00:09:52.760 We all want to be part of something, but particularly for young men, they want to be part of a group.

00:09:57.040 They want to be part of a gang.

00:09:58.240 And that sense of brotherhood, you went, you took the oath, you said you are now part of

00:10:02.860 us.

00:10:03.120 That must also be a huge thing for you.

00:10:05.020 Absolutely huge.

00:10:05.900 You know, when I get into the life, Michael, wherever you go in the world, somebody will

00:10:09.860 have your back.

00:10:10.540 We're everywhere.

00:10:11.640 Don't ever worry about your wife, your mother, your sister, your daughter.

00:10:14.240 Nobody will ever hurt them.

00:10:15.960 They have brothers now to protect them.

00:10:18.360 You know, we have your back.

00:10:19.820 Very powerful words.

00:10:22.060 You know, and people said to me, Michael, what do you miss about that life?

00:10:25.780 And it's not the money and the power.

00:10:27.520 I mean, I'm not complaining my life now, but it's that camaraderie among the guys.

00:10:32.240 We were very tight.

00:10:33.240 And aside from marriage, you know, you have, you know, a companion for life, there's nothing

00:10:39.780 more powerful than this bond or this brotherhood among men.

00:10:42.960 It's powerful.

00:10:44.240 And so, yeah, I miss that, you know, in a way, because I was tight with my crew, tight

00:10:49.280 with the guys.

00:10:51.160 But, you know, there's always a downside.

00:10:54.060 Yeah.

00:10:54.520 Do you ever think it's, I mean, I'm going to ask the question and push back.

00:10:58.400 Do you ever think it's almost like an addiction, Michael, in which, you know, you get put into

00:11:03.840 a situation which is literally life or death.

00:11:06.040 You make your way out of it.

00:11:07.440 You almost get a high from that.

00:11:09.400 You get a high off the adrenaline that you wouldn't get if you were very successful selling

00:11:14.380 insurance, for example.

00:11:15.660 I think that's accurate.

00:11:17.440 Yes.

00:11:18.400 Yeah.

00:11:18.600 There is a certain high that you get at certain times.

00:11:21.860 Yeah.

00:11:22.020 So you're a made man now, and this is the point at which I'm guessing your status, your

00:11:28.840 power, your income, all of these things start to rise.

00:11:31.960 Is that fair?

00:11:32.680 Yeah.

00:11:33.380 I was fortunate.

00:11:36.260 Number one, I had a head for business, and I knew how to use that life to benefit me in

00:11:40.680 business.

00:11:41.060 If you use the life effectively to earn, it's a plus in that regard.

00:11:47.820 And I was very aggressive on the street because I was motivated.

00:11:50.120 I wanted two things, get my dad out of prison, make money.

00:11:53.580 My dad said, in this life, not unlike the real world, money is power.

00:11:57.560 You make money, you rise in the ranks.

00:11:58.980 Same as the real world.

00:12:00.480 So I was very aggressive in that regard, and I brought some new things into the family that

00:12:04.860 I hadn't done before and went on to make a tremendous amount of money.

00:12:08.500 In 1980, as a result of that, the boss of my family at the time, Carmine Persigal, Mike,

00:12:13.620 you're doing a great job, and he made me a Capito regime captain.

00:12:16.780 And that's a powerful decision.

00:12:17.960 How much money were you making?

00:12:20.120 You know, combined, I had created a scheme along with a friend or business associate

00:12:27.120 where we were defrauding the government out of tax on every gallon of gasoline.

00:12:31.040 It's an operation I ran for almost eight years.

00:12:34.100 The Russian mob guys were involved with me.

00:12:35.860 I pulled them into the organization.

00:12:39.120 And at the heart of our operation, out of 350 gas stations, I either operated or controlled.

00:12:43.640 I had 18 companies that were licensed to collect the tax on every gallon of gasoline.

00:12:49.420 The height of our operation was selling a half a billion gallons of gas a month, taking down 30,

00:12:53.980 40 cents a gallon.

00:12:54.940 We were bringing in 7, 8, 9, 10 million a week.

00:12:57.820 It's a lot of money.

00:12:59.420 And I had my own jet plane.

00:13:01.560 I had a helicopter.

00:13:02.500 I had a house in Florida, a house in New York, a house in California.

00:13:05.080 And I had about 300 guys under me, really ready to do anything I'd tell them to do.

00:13:09.680 So I had a lot of power in that regard.

00:13:12.600 I also became a major target of law enforcement.

00:13:14.960 I was arrested 18 times.

00:13:16.520 I was indicted seven times.

00:13:18.600 I had two federal racketeering cases, one state racketeering case, and then four other cases.

00:13:23.820 I went to trial five times, and I beat every case.

00:13:26.340 I was either acquitted or dismissed at the end of my trials.

00:13:30.780 So I had a good record in that regard.

00:13:33.320 So I'm doing pretty good, rising in the ranks.

00:13:36.940 And quite honestly, my dad was grooming me to take over the family at some point.

00:13:42.540 And the boss had a son my age.

00:13:45.000 We came in at the same time.

00:13:46.680 He baptized my son.

00:13:48.120 We were tight.

00:13:48.680 So they were grooming us to maybe one day take over the family.

00:13:51.380 That's how it was headed.

00:13:53.180 And so that's what it was all about for me at that point.

00:13:56.700 It's so interesting what you're talking about, because on the one hand, you've got this

00:14:03.260 incredible life where people are seeing you from the outside, and they're like, what more

00:14:08.700 could you want?

00:14:09.720 The money, the power, the cars, the houses, whatever you want, you've got it.

00:14:14.860 But on the other hand, and this surely must have eaten away at you, that knowledge that

00:14:20.400 not only have you made enemies on the street, you've also made enemies within the government.

00:14:27.260 So you must have always been aware that you could never truly relax, because the moment

00:14:32.800 you let your guard down in any shape or form, that's the moment that someone can swoop in

00:14:37.520 and take everything from you, including your life. 0.57

00:14:39.900 Well, let me tell you this, Francis.

00:14:41.780 In my case, the surveillance and law enforcement started when I was five, six years old, all

00:14:51.020 through my dad's history with that, right?

00:14:52.940 I, as soon as I got involved in the life, I had a bullseye on my back because of my name.

00:15:00.020 And what I found out, I had a number of undercover investigations against me.

00:15:05.120 I was, they always sending people to try to get me.

00:15:08.060 What I found out is that they had a 14 agency task force that was combined of the FBI, the

00:15:14.980 IRS, Queen Detective, Brooklyn DA, you name it.

00:15:17.720 And they were meeting in the courthouse in Uniondale, Long Island, twice a month.

00:15:24.620 And their sole focus was to bring me down and put me away for life.

00:15:29.560 So I lived with this.

00:15:31.200 There was never a time in my life when I didn't live with constant knowledge that people were

00:15:35.900 after me.

00:15:36.340 And then, of course, on the street, I was a younger guy.

00:15:40.500 And you always have to face resentment from the older guys.

00:15:43.140 You know, it's part of the life.

00:15:45.020 And especially when you're doing well.

00:15:47.020 So you got to deal with that on the street.

00:15:49.000 You got to know how to navigate that.

00:15:50.600 And then, of course, everybody I spoke to, is that a potential cop?

00:15:53.960 Is that an informant?

00:15:54.800 Is this and that?

00:15:55.700 So it was constantly on my mind.

00:15:58.300 So I was able to deal with it.

00:16:00.420 I wasn't paranoid.

00:16:01.660 I was just very aware.

00:16:03.600 I think that's the way to put it.

00:16:04.860 And I still was determined to live my life.

00:16:07.820 You know, Michael, you got to play low-key.

00:16:09.740 Hey, I got money.

00:16:10.540 I'm buying a plane.

00:16:11.980 That's it.

00:16:12.580 I'm buying a helicopter.

00:16:13.580 I want to travel that way.

00:16:15.980 And so I did it.

00:16:16.940 But I also had legitimate income, so I was able to cover things.

00:16:19.760 But, you know, it was just a way of life for me.

00:16:23.680 You know, it became unnatural when that stopped.

00:16:27.860 I mean, nobody's looking at me.

00:16:29.140 You know, I still think people are looking at me.

00:16:30.800 Probably not.

00:16:31.520 They watch your YouTube channel now.

00:16:33.300 They're all looking at you.

00:16:33.980 I mean, you know, so it was just a way of life.

00:16:36.500 It was natural to me.

00:16:37.620 Yeah.

00:16:38.000 But it was constant.

00:16:39.200 Do you think in some ways, Michael, you see, like, for instance, a family of athletes.

00:16:44.480 You know, you get, you know, the dad's played football.

00:16:47.340 Then the son plays football.

00:16:48.620 And then the grandson plays football.

00:16:51.040 Do you think there was a part of you in a way that was kind of bred for that life?

00:16:54.980 You were almost built for that in certain ways.

00:16:58.560 The temperament, seeing the way your dad handled himself, the way your dad moved through the world.

00:17:03.460 No question.

00:17:04.380 I mean, I, you know, I wasn't, this wasn't what I wanted to do or what I was determined to do.

00:17:10.260 But I was bred for it.

00:17:12.340 There's no question.

00:17:13.120 Because I wouldn't have lasted the way I did.

00:17:16.020 You know, I wouldn't have been able to navigate it the way I did if it wasn't in me.

00:17:20.640 You know, for instance, I had two brothers.

00:17:22.980 My younger brother, unfortunately, had a severe drug problem.

00:17:25.620 He was a street kid.

00:17:26.700 But he could have never handled life.

00:17:28.540 He just, it wasn't part of him.

00:17:31.840 My older brother, he never even got a traffic ticket.

00:17:34.920 He didn't want nothing to do with nothing.

00:17:36.440 He didn't police or anything else.

00:17:38.040 No, not knocking him.

00:17:39.280 It's just, it wasn't for him.

00:17:41.420 You know, so that kind of got my father upset.

00:17:44.680 You know, it was your older brother.

00:17:45.820 I said, Dad, you don't want to do it.

00:17:46.900 What do you want me to do?

00:17:47.760 You know?

00:17:47.860 Yeah.

00:17:50.220 So, yeah, it must have been in me all the time.

00:17:52.620 And I didn't even know it.

00:17:54.160 And Michael, one of the things I found very interesting listening to you talk about this

00:17:57.540 elsewhere is the idea that you are now entering a brotherhood and everyone's going to look

00:18:02.140 after you only really lasts so long.

00:18:04.800 Because it is, from what I understand, your brothers that are going to be there when you're

00:18:09.600 getting put away in one way or another.

00:18:11.840 If bad things are going to happen to you, they're going to be the ones in the room.

00:18:15.140 Yeah.

00:18:15.340 Yeah, unfortunately, you know, there's a lot of disloyalty in that life.

00:18:22.300 And the disloyalty, I always say it's this, you know, you know the movie The Bronx Tale?

00:18:27.480 Indeed, yeah.

00:18:28.040 Yeah, great movie.

00:18:28.800 Chas Parmentary, great movie.

00:18:30.080 He's a good friend of mine.

00:18:31.160 There's a line in the movie when Cologgio asks him, is it better to be loved or be feared?

00:18:35.980 And he says, well, in my case, it's better to be feared because I keep people in line.

00:18:40.680 And when I spoke to Chas, I said, Chas, you're wrong about that.

00:18:43.780 And he said, what do you mean?

00:18:45.120 I says, in our life, fear did keep people in line.

00:18:48.500 No question about it.

00:18:49.860 You know, we knew if we broke the rules, we could pay severe consequences.

00:18:53.920 But what happened on the street, in our life especially, is that when the racketeering

00:18:58.420 statute came out and the government got so sophisticated and the laws that they created

00:19:02.540 to get us, the fear of the mob was transferred to the fear of the government.

00:19:07.780 Because now under the RICO statute, you get one count, you go down for 20 years, and there's

00:19:12.180 no parole.

00:19:12.920 You're doing 17 and a half.

00:19:14.620 Well, you never get one count.

00:19:15.860 You usually get 5, 6, 10, 15.

00:19:17.660 You're going away forever.

00:19:19.280 So they put a guy in a room and say, hey, you cooperate with us.

00:19:24.240 We're going to indict you on this.

00:19:25.460 We're going to convict you.

00:19:26.160 And you're going away for the rest of your life.

00:19:27.960 We'll put you in a witness protection program.

00:19:29.820 We'll give you some money, change your identity.

00:19:31.380 That guy's going to jail forever.

00:19:33.080 You'll have a life. 0.84

00:19:33.940 He's dead.

00:19:35.000 But what happened?

00:19:35.940 Well, they got fearful, and so many guys became informants.

00:19:40.000 So you're right.

00:19:40.960 It was the guys that you broke bread with every day that ended up putting you in jail forever.

00:19:45.460 That's what happened to the life.

00:19:47.140 A lot of people blame John Gotti.

00:19:49.020 John was so outspoken.

00:19:50.140 John did not destroy that life.

00:19:52.580 He didn't help himself, for sure, because he was so outspoken.

00:19:56.420 But it was the RICO statute and the government, with all these new laws that they put into place,

00:20:01.180 the Bail Reform Act.

00:20:02.720 You get locked up, no bail.

00:20:04.320 Danger to community or flight risk, no bail.

00:20:07.140 Very hard to defend yourself from inside prison when you're fighting a major case.

00:20:12.000 You know, forfeiture statute.

00:20:14.800 They prove you put $1 into buying your house that costs $5 million.

00:20:18.660 They take your house. 1.00

00:20:20.300 It's that simple.

00:20:21.940 So they destroyed the life in that regard, and people started to turn, and that's what

00:20:26.700 brought it down.

00:20:27.800 That's very interesting.

00:20:28.780 So it's a case of the government and the law enforcement actually doing their job.

00:20:32.480 No question.

00:20:33.240 That's incredible.

00:20:34.600 Unusual nowadays.

00:20:36.100 Well, against us, it's not unusual.

00:20:38.580 Let me tell you.

00:20:39.360 Crime in the street, and you can't even believe what's going on there.

00:20:42.640 You wouldn't believe it if I told you, you'd say, come on, Michael, this is a script for

00:20:45.420 a movie.

00:20:45.800 It's true.

00:20:46.200 Now, we were telling you, we go to America regularly.

00:20:48.820 It has to be seen to be believed, but it is happening.

00:20:51.800 So you know in Los Angeles, you can go into a store and steal under $1,000 and walk right

00:20:57.160 out of the store.

00:20:57.920 Nothing happens to you.

00:20:59.240 Nothing.

00:21:00.000 If you want to get toothpaste now, they've got a lock and key.

00:21:02.660 You've got to go call the attendant to it, because they've got to lock everything up.

00:21:05.540 Everything's been stolen, and nothing happens.

00:21:08.940 But if you're an organized crime, forget it.

00:21:11.680 You're illegal gambling.

00:21:14.540 You're a bookmaker.

00:21:15.160 You go to jail for 20 years.

00:21:17.000 It's crazy.

00:21:18.200 Was it part of the organized crime families who actually controlled the streets in that

00:21:27.920 they wouldn't let those things happen to the area that they looked after or they commanded?

00:21:34.520 Do you see what I mean?

00:21:35.140 You wouldn't let people go in and rob stores like that.

00:21:38.640 The safest communities were our communities.

00:21:41.120 There's no crime in my neighborhood.

00:21:42.940 There's no crime in John Gotti's neighborhood.

00:21:45.160 We wouldn't allow it.

00:21:46.420 If there's any crime, it was us.

00:21:48.000 But we wouldn't prey on our own people that way.

00:21:51.460 No.

00:21:51.740 It was very, very safe.

00:21:53.740 Drugs.

00:21:54.420 You didn't come to our neighborhood with drugs, because we were not allowed to deal with

00:21:57.760 the drugs.

00:21:58.360 If we dealt with drugs, we'd die.

00:22:00.380 Period.

00:22:01.160 With some guys doing it on a sneak here and there and there.

00:22:03.760 But we were not major drug dealers.

00:22:05.580 You could not get involved in it.

00:22:06.900 So we kept our neighborhoods crime-free.

00:22:11.360 Wouldn't happen.

00:22:12.780 You know, today it's just, it's out of control.

00:22:16.300 And on the drugs thing, I mean, obviously part of the plot of The Godfather is there

00:22:20.400 is a fight over whether they should sell drugs or not that leads to all sorts of repercussions.

00:22:26.440 Given how much money there is to be made in drugs now, do you think if the mob was around

00:22:32.640 now in the way that it was then, they would have to be dealing in drugs now?

00:22:36.000 I think they are dealing in drugs to a degree now.

00:22:39.980 And this is based on some information that I have, but a lot of speculation too.

00:22:45.880 But you can't compare them to the cartels in Mexico.

00:22:48.480 You can't compare them to what's happening in Italy, you know, with drug dealing in Italy.

00:22:54.880 There's major drug dealers there in mafia. 0.79

00:22:58.260 And the same with Mexico. 0.62

00:22:59.680 It's not anywhere near that in the States among our guys.

00:23:03.580 We're not sophisticated in that regard, you know?

00:23:06.880 We're not doing it.

00:23:08.180 And we didn't do it then.

00:23:09.320 You know, in my era, we were told straight out, you deal with drugs, you die.

00:23:13.860 It was dirty business.

00:23:15.220 What you saw in The Godfather, you know, the cops won't forgive us.

00:23:17.880 It's true.

00:23:18.920 That's the mentality we had.

00:23:20.880 So we couldn't deal with it.

00:23:21.960 And I knew guys that got killed for dealing with it.

00:23:24.400 So, Michael, because you were at your peak of your career in the 80s, that was also the

00:23:30.540 crack cocaine epidemic in New York.

00:23:33.180 That was when Pablo Escobar in Colombia was so powerful in the cartel.

00:23:38.400 How did you negotiate with people like that?

00:23:43.100 Was it an uneasy truce?

00:23:44.540 Did you sit down, have a meeting with them going, look, you don't get involved in this.

00:23:48.160 You can do this.

00:23:49.140 Just don't come into what we do.

00:23:51.220 Yeah, absolutely.

00:23:52.100 You know, you stay away from us.

00:23:54.220 We're not dealing with it.

00:23:55.140 We're not involved in any way.

00:23:57.260 Look, cartels are powerful in Mexico.

00:24:00.040 They don't have power in New York.

00:24:02.220 You know, we would have chased them out of there if they tried.

00:24:04.500 But it was that arrangement.

00:24:07.280 We don't do it.

00:24:08.240 And so you can't do it anywhere around us or near us.

00:24:11.060 Just stay away from us.

00:24:12.180 And we didn't bother them.

00:24:13.920 But you saw the impact that, for instance, crack cocaine must have had on your communities.

00:24:19.620 And that must have angered the people within, you know, the family.

00:24:24.380 Because drugs affect everyone.

00:24:26.740 Soon it will come and addiction will hit people that you know and love.

00:24:31.360 Was there not a part of that family who must have been like, you know what, let's just wipe

00:24:35.820 them off the face of this earth?

00:24:37.600 For instance, I'll confess this to you.

00:24:39.580 My sister died of an overdose of drugs.

00:24:41.640 You know, she was an addict. 0.97

00:24:43.300 My brother was an addict 25 years.

00:24:46.060 I had to work to keep him alive.

00:24:49.220 If it wasn't for me and my father, he would have been dead, I don't know how many times,

00:24:52.860 you know, for the stuff that he got involved in.

00:24:55.100 My sister, it's hard for me to even say it.

00:24:59.060 Look, I lived 20 years in that life and I saw a lot of bad things.

00:25:02.040 My worst things that I got involved in was hurting people because of what they did to

00:25:08.720 my sister.

00:25:09.780 I'd walk, I'd look, be looking for her.

00:25:11.580 I see her in a bar in Queens with some bust out drug addicts in there, you know, putting 1.00

00:25:16.320 a needle in her arm or between her toes. 0.97

00:25:18.400 One day I walked in, I was, and I lose it. 0.99

00:25:21.260 You know, you want to, you want to kill everybody in a place when they're doing that.

00:25:24.460 You know, and unfortunately that was a, I hated anything to do with drugs and don't 0.72

00:25:30.440 do drugs around me because you would have paid a price.

00:25:32.660 And a lot of guys felt that way.

00:25:34.880 Believe me.

00:25:35.780 So it was, it was a bad thing for us.

00:25:38.340 Now, again, I get criticized.

00:25:40.300 Oh, Michael, the Vito Genovese was a big drug dealer.

00:25:43.020 Yes, that's true.

00:25:44.760 During my era, you weren't allowed to do it.

00:25:47.100 Maybe because of Vito Genovese and because of some of the things you did that the other families

00:25:51.140 didn't approve of, we stopped it.

00:25:53.000 You know, so, hey, I had a good friend of mine.

00:25:56.680 He was a made guy for 25 years, stand up guy all the way.

00:26:00.940 He was with my father, then with me.

00:26:03.080 I'm at a funeral and he pulls me on the side and he says to me, I'm in trouble, chief.

00:26:07.740 And I said, what happened?

00:26:08.520 He was under me.

00:26:09.840 He said, I got caught in a little drug deal with an undercover agent.

00:26:13.680 I said, I got mad.

00:26:14.600 I said, what are you doing?

00:26:15.580 You know, and he says, I'm in trouble.

00:26:21.020 I know what's going to happen.

00:26:22.000 I said, don't worry about it.

00:26:23.720 I'm going to straighten it out.

00:26:24.860 You know, you've been around a long time.

00:26:26.480 You're a stand up guy.

00:26:27.540 I'll straighten it out.

00:26:28.640 I was heading to Florida.

00:26:30.040 I was doing something down here.

00:26:31.560 So after the funeral, I get on my plane.

00:26:33.720 I leave, right?

00:26:34.760 Now, one of the horrors of that life, you walk into it.

00:26:38.420 You make a mistake.

00:26:39.720 Your best friend walks you into a room.

00:26:41.320 You don't walk out again.

00:26:42.480 Obviously, I've seen that in my life.

00:26:44.280 This guy was so afraid that that was going to happen to him.

00:26:48.280 You know, he's an old timer. 0.92

00:26:49.680 He goes into a phone booth, calls his wife, tells her he loves her, and then blows his brains out.

00:26:55.700 Because of a small little drug deal that he was involved.

00:26:58.040 It was nothing.

00:26:59.340 No big deal.

00:27:00.040 But that's how much fear we had of that business.

00:27:03.720 Well, that's how much we didn't want it around us.

00:27:07.760 And it was just bad.

00:27:10.760 Drugs are bad.

00:27:12.000 Michael, do you think when you look at your sister's addiction and also the effect that it's had, not only on your family, but on other people's family,

00:27:21.040 that is also maybe partly the stress of living, of having family members, mothers, fathers, well, maybe not mothers, but certainly fathers living that life.

00:27:32.400 Because it must impact the children and the wives when you have somebody in the family. 0.54

00:27:39.760 Let me tell you this.

00:27:41.120 I call that life now an evil lifestyle.

00:27:46.160 And I'm not calling the guys evil.

00:27:47.900 I was one of them.

00:27:48.680 I just happened to be very fortunate.

00:27:51.040 But I don't know any family of any member of that life that hasn't been totally destroyed.

00:27:55.640 I 100% attribute the troubles in my family to my dad's involvement in that life.

00:28:01.100 My sister, if you talk, my brother's now has been clean for a lot of years, right?

00:28:06.760 But his life is, I mean, he lives alone.

00:28:10.100 He still has to go to AA meetings every night.

00:28:13.020 He can't miss an AA meeting.

00:28:14.440 And he actually works in a rehab center, you know, helping other people.

00:28:17.860 But I was angry with him because he actually got himself in trouble, went into the witness protection program, cooperated with the government, and testified against my father.

00:28:28.920 A son testifying against his father.

00:28:30.960 And I attribute that to his drug addiction and to some of the resentment he had for my father.

00:28:35.660 I was angry with him.

00:28:37.540 I hadn't seen him for 10 years or so, right?

00:28:39.760 I had a 70th birthday party.

00:28:41.500 My wife invites him.

00:28:42.820 And we finally unite.

00:28:44.680 And my wife had more of a heart and understanding than I did for what he did.

00:28:48.640 But I love my brother.

00:28:49.540 Don't get me wrong.

00:28:50.040 I love my brother.

00:28:50.540 But when he started to talk about, I guess I didn't, I guess I navigated it differently.

00:28:57.780 But the pressure and the turbulence in our life, because my mother was very difficult to get along with.

00:29:05.000 She was a tough woman.

00:29:06.160 She was my father's match in many ways.

00:29:08.520 But the kids, it was mental torture.

00:29:10.740 And it was just so abusive in a way.

00:29:14.320 And when my brother started to describe some of his emotion to me, and I started to even think back of some of the things my sister went through.

00:29:22.060 I mean, I walk in the house one day, you know, my sister and my mother were on the floor fighting.

00:29:26.500 I had to pull them apart, you know, because it was just torture for these kids.

00:29:30.700 And my youngest sister, 41, was never mentally stable.

00:29:33.340 She dies at 41.

00:29:35.000 Family wiped out.

00:29:36.760 You know, my mother, 33 years without a husband.

00:29:38.980 Of course, the way she handled the kids wasn't always right.

00:29:42.180 Somehow I got through it.

00:29:43.460 I don't know what happened.

00:29:45.280 But when my brother started to make me realize, I said, wow, I never realized the emotional stress that you guys went through.

00:29:54.240 And that maybe I went through.

00:29:56.140 How does it come out in me?

00:29:57.440 If my wife will tell you, as a matter of fact, I didn't even believe her until two days ago.

00:30:02.520 She takes a video of me in my sleep, because I'm fighting in my sleep all the time.

00:30:07.160 And when she took this video, it was like a horror movie.

00:30:10.220 I'm looking at it and I'm saying, is that me?

00:30:12.480 And I'm actually fighting and talking.

00:30:14.700 It was eerie.

00:30:15.580 She showed me.

00:30:16.160 So maybe that's when it comes out in me.

00:30:17.940 I don't know.

00:30:19.120 But to answer your question, that was a long form.

00:30:21.280 To answer your question, yeah, it destroys the family.

00:30:25.280 If you can't deal with it or not built in a certain way, it's going to have a tough impact on you.

00:30:32.680 And it's also the people who go into that life, you could say, well, it's their choice.

00:30:38.120 But a lot of the time, they're built for it.

00:30:40.620 They're making the choice.

00:30:41.680 They know what they're getting into.

00:30:42.860 But a kid who's maybe more sensitive, who's maybe more fragile, if you want to use that word, they can't cope with it.

00:30:51.180 No question.

00:30:52.200 My younger sister, she couldn't cope with it.

00:30:54.820 She didn't want to know about it.

00:30:57.260 And she didn't like my father.

00:30:59.400 He was away most of her life, but she didn't like him.

00:31:03.100 My sister, Gia, who died, she was always in a battle between my father and my mother and the drugs and everything else.

00:31:11.360 I hate marijuana.

00:31:12.900 I don't care what anybody said.

00:31:14.300 It can be a gateway drug because it was a gateway drug with my sister and my brother.

00:31:19.540 I know it.

00:31:20.380 They didn't even want to admit it, but I know for a fact it was.

00:31:23.580 So I'm not saying in every case, no, I'm not saying that, even though studies are coming out now and how harmful it can be to your brain and to your system.

00:31:34.060 But I hate anything having to do with drugs.

00:31:37.380 I've never smoked a joint.

00:31:39.380 And I took one time in my life, I was 19 or 20 years old with some girl, and she gave me half a Quaalude.

00:31:46.680 And that got me crazy.

00:31:48.500 I said, so I'm done.

00:31:49.920 I don't want to take a drug.

00:31:50.620 I won't come near it.

00:31:51.800 Prescription of, you know, obviously you're sick, you take a drug.

00:31:54.760 But I hate anything to do with drugs.

00:31:57.480 Michael, what do we do then?

00:32:00.020 Because obviously you're in organized crime.

00:32:02.420 We had prohibition.

00:32:03.960 Al Capone.

00:32:05.160 I mean, that didn't work.

00:32:06.120 That was a colossal failure.

00:32:07.260 When you see the war on drugs and...

00:32:10.980 Sorry, Michael, you wince there.

00:32:12.220 Why did you wince?

00:32:13.160 Well, I'm trying to understand what you were saying.

00:32:16.060 When you say it didn't work.

00:32:17.900 Oh, prohibition?

00:32:19.100 Prohibition.

00:32:19.680 I said prohibition didn't work.

00:32:21.260 And we could argue that the war on drugs hasn't worked.

00:32:24.440 Not working.

00:32:24.860 So, do you have any ideas about what you would do in order to minimize gangs' involvement within drugs?

00:32:35.340 Well, I would be, this could get me in trouble on the street, but I would be extremely hard on drug dealers.

00:32:43.160 I would.

00:32:44.400 Extremely hard.

00:32:45.080 I would set an example where they, because they're destroying, they're destroying our youth.

00:32:52.040 I mean, I am, I want to say this now politically, I don't care.

00:32:56.960 I have to pray every day not to hate Joe Biden.

00:33:01.680 And the reason for that, forget the politics, forget what I think of him as a president, but the fact that our southern border is so porous, and I know this firsthand having spoken to 850 border patrol agents from the state of Texas.

00:33:20.100 I did a seminar with them, and I was a speaker.

00:33:22.140 And they confided in me that they're not even getting 10%, not even 10% of the illicit drugs that are coming across the country, right, into our country.

00:33:30.500 We have 100,000 people a year are dying from opioid and fentanyl, not only addiction, but poisoning.

00:33:37.780 Because fentanyl, one little speck, like a speck of salt in an Adderall, and you drop dead.

00:33:43.680 When you know this is happening, you understand that this is killing people in America.

00:33:49.760 Mob guys in the street wouldn't do that.

00:33:51.300 We would not do that.

00:33:53.620 How can you do that?

00:33:54.980 How can you allow it to happen when you have the authority right now, say, I'm shutting this border until I rid this country of drugs, and really do it, and put the DEA and the drug enforcement people, you can do it.

00:34:07.100 It can be done.

00:34:08.120 They stamped out organized crime.

00:34:10.580 They killed my former life.

00:34:12.940 It's a shadow of what it once was.

00:34:14.900 So if you can do it to that powerful an organization, we practically ran the country for a long time, okay, then you can do it with the drugs that are coming into this country, but you're not doing it.

00:34:26.420 Okay, so I have a real, because I hate drugs, because of that, I have a real resentment towards this guy.

00:34:32.820 So the way to do it is enforcement and education.

00:34:37.760 Prohibition, it's two ways, and if they put their efforts into that, you can severely, severely reduce the amount of drug addiction and overdoses that you have in the country.

00:34:50.840 It's different in prohibition.

00:34:52.260 You can't put drugs and alcohol in the same place.

00:34:55.560 You cannot.

00:34:56.520 Listen, I don't know if you know this.

00:34:58.440 You know who made the mafia strong in America?

00:35:01.640 The government.

00:35:03.420 We were a bunch of street gangs until Prohibition, and Capone and all these guys realized, wait a minute, these people want this.

00:35:11.080 It's a festive thing.

00:35:13.240 You drink, you know what I mean?

00:35:14.840 Yes, you can get it addicted to alcohol, but it's not the same as drugs.

00:35:17.840 I don't care what anybody says.

00:35:19.020 It's not, okay?

00:35:20.360 People want it.

00:35:22.520 They're going to do it.

00:35:23.120 You had, in New York alone, during Prohibition, in New York State alone, you had 36,000 speakeasies.

00:35:30.140 Did you know that?

00:35:31.280 So when you have this amount of places that are serving alcohol to people, you're not going to stop them.

00:35:36.600 They're going to drink it.

00:35:37.820 That's it.

00:35:39.120 Drugs is a bad thing, and it should be stopped, and they could do it.

00:35:43.340 And they know the difference between drugs and alcohol.

00:35:45.540 They know the difference.

00:35:47.020 You know, a lot of people, oh, come on.

00:35:48.800 Alcohol is the same as drugs.

00:35:50.040 No, it's not.

00:35:51.320 It's not.

00:35:51.960 It's different.

00:35:52.860 Drugs kill you, and they can kill you immediately.

00:35:55.860 And I'll say this last thing, another thing.

00:35:58.660 I had my youngest daughter, her fiance, who's going to be her fiance, 24-year-old kid, wonderful kid, was my videographer, did all my video work, right?

00:36:10.260 Amazing kid, good-looking, strong athlete, whatever.

00:36:13.160 He's living in my house, in my guest house, because he was working for me, and he had lived in Michigan, so he comes out to California.

00:36:19.840 I'm speaking to him that night.

00:36:22.700 He had to do a video that morning.

00:36:24.920 I was in Chicago.

00:36:27.080 He takes an Adderall at 12 o'clock.

00:36:29.020 These kids take Adderalls.

00:36:31.020 In college, they take it.

00:36:32.420 Why?

00:36:32.560 To stay up so they can study.

00:36:34.980 It's a harmless drug in that regard.

00:36:37.340 Well, this one happened to be laced with fentanyl.

00:36:39.920 He got it from a friend on the street.

00:36:42.120 Within 10 minutes, he drops dead on the floor of my bathroom.

00:36:44.940 If you're a decent human being, how do you continue to allow this to happen when you know this is coming into our country?

00:36:54.160 Drugs need to be stamped out, and it needs to be enforced in the toughest way possible, because it's devastating.

00:37:03.640 You mentioned the border.

00:37:04.740 It used to be, within living memory, that left, right, Obama, Bush, everyone agreed countries need borders.

00:37:14.980 Everyone agreed about border security.

00:37:17.320 What happened?

00:37:18.720 Very simple.

00:37:20.200 There's no other way to understand or to figure out why is he doing this.

00:37:25.360 Why?

00:37:25.820 It's only one reason, okay?

00:37:27.820 And I don't care what anybody says.

00:37:30.120 They want to turn every state blue.

00:37:32.120 They want to bring these illegal immigrants in. 1.00

00:37:35.320 Now, I don't know if you know this.

00:37:37.080 You don't need any ID.

00:37:38.320 If you're an illegal, remember the word, illegal immigrant, you don't need ID now to get on an airplane. 0.84

00:37:44.400 Do you know that?

00:37:45.160 In America.

00:37:45.980 You don't need an ID.

00:37:47.360 They just passed.

00:37:47.980 You don't have to have an ID.

00:37:49.220 You don't have to have a license or anything else, because you don't have one.

00:37:51.740 And they'll let you on board the plane, where we have to go through so much scrutiny.

00:37:56.180 They're making it everything.

00:37:57.680 Eventually, they're going to give them the ability to vote.

00:37:59.740 And they're going to say, hey, if you vote Republican, they're sending you back.

00:38:04.920 If you vote Democrat, we're going to keep you here.

00:38:07.660 They're padding the bill.

00:38:08.800 They don't ever want to get out of power.

00:38:11.180 There's no other reason.

00:38:12.540 If you can think of another reason that makes sense, tell me.

00:38:17.200 I'm telling you that's what it is.

00:38:18.660 They want to flood the country with illegals that eventually get them to vote. 1.00

00:38:22.460 And they want to pad the voting registration.

00:38:25.120 And that'll be the end of it.

00:38:26.320 There's no other.

00:38:27.440 Nothing else makes sense.

00:38:29.680 Because all they want to do is stay in power.

00:38:32.540 I guess if there were another reason, and by the way, I don't, your argument's persuasive.

00:38:38.460 It would be, you know, you know this progressive ideology, be kind, be nice.

00:38:43.660 You know, there's no such, no one's, no human is illegal.

00:38:46.940 All of this stuff.

00:38:48.600 Do you think maybe it's just that? 1.00

00:38:49.720 Maybe they're just so well-intentioned that they do stupid stuff? 1.00

00:38:53.240 So well-intentioned. 1.00

00:38:54.140 And then the illegal immigrants that are living on the street, why don't they take them into 1.00

00:38:57.520 their neighborhoods and then a house?

00:38:59.520 Do you know when they went into some of the affluent neighborhoods, okay, in Massachusetts

00:39:04.820 and ever, that they revolted?

00:39:07.400 They had a busload, I think, of 100 people, and they were in panic.

00:39:10.780 They had to move them out of their town.

00:39:12.580 There's no humanity in, but they're not humane at all.

00:39:15.040 Joe Biden couldn't care less.

00:39:17.060 You put them under his doorstep, he'll be moving them out faster than anybody else.

00:39:20.580 Yes, this is a scheme on their part, I'm telling you.

00:39:24.000 There's no other reason that makes sense.

00:39:26.400 This has nothing.

00:39:27.440 If they were humane, I don't think you really know what's going on in the United States.

00:39:31.580 These people are living like animals, half of them.

00:39:35.020 Because what are they going to do with them?

00:39:36.980 They don't have a place to house them or anything else.

00:39:39.300 It's costing billions.

00:39:40.760 Even now, the blue state mayors are revolting against this because they have no place to

00:39:46.140 put them.

00:39:47.400 I just wanted to put that argument to you to see what you said.

00:39:50.100 And obviously, America is about to have another election.

00:39:54.520 What do you make of what's coming and how this conversation goes?

00:39:58.180 Because the stakes seems higher than ever.

00:40:00.360 Listen, it is.

00:40:02.280 The stakes, another four years of what we have now, America, you won't even want to visit

00:40:07.340 there anymore.

00:40:08.120 It's getting that bad.

00:40:09.800 We can't go through this.

00:40:11.760 Listen, it's Trump and Biden.

00:40:14.180 I know that.

00:40:14.720 I wish there were two other candidates.

00:40:17.020 I think a lot of people do.

00:40:20.100 Because the chaos that we're going to, and it's just starting now.

00:40:23.880 You know, here it goes.

00:40:25.520 I mean, for the next couple of months, right up until the election, who knows what's going

00:40:29.200 to happen?

00:40:29.540 I don't know.

00:40:30.540 Who knows what's going to happen in the world?

00:40:32.000 I'm telling you what I believe.

00:40:33.520 I believe our president and our administration is so weak that the rest of the world is going

00:40:37.700 to take more advantage.

00:40:39.140 I think China may go into Taiwan before Biden goes out of office.

00:40:42.460 I think Iran may pull something because now they got money.

00:40:45.580 Biden gave them everything.

00:40:46.560 You know, who knows what they're going to do?

00:40:48.120 We don't know what's going to happen in the world as a result of the weak.

00:40:51.360 The United States cannot be weak.

00:40:54.060 And right now we're perceived as weak.

00:40:56.440 And that's bad for the entire world.

00:40:58.560 So who knows foreign and domestic, you know, what's going to happen.

00:41:02.380 But I know this election cycle is going to be crazy, you know.

00:41:07.020 And look, say what you want about Trump.

00:41:10.600 I don't like his personality.

00:41:12.340 He tweets too much.

00:41:13.580 You know, he was bad with women way back when, all of that. 0.72

00:41:17.240 OK, you can have all of that.

00:41:19.340 But he was a good president.

00:41:20.940 His policies for the United States were good during that time.

00:41:24.820 There's no question.

00:41:26.300 You know, we had a secure border.

00:41:28.140 The rest of the world was at peace because they knew, don't mess with him.

00:41:32.220 OK, we had money.

00:41:34.340 Inflation now is through the roof.

00:41:35.720 I experienced it myself.

00:41:37.660 Thanksgiving dinner, I had less people at my house and spent $200 more than I spent the year before.

00:41:42.580 And I don't notice these things until I go.

00:41:44.880 Why is it so much money?

00:41:46.160 You know, it's every gas prices through the roof.

00:41:50.260 Crime in the streets.

00:41:51.420 Forget it.

00:41:51.960 I just bought my wife and daughters guns.

00:41:56.680 You can carry these guns.

00:41:58.360 I can't.

00:41:59.760 Excuse me.

00:42:00.440 I don't have a gun in my house.

00:42:01.860 I want to make sure.

00:42:02.660 I'm a fellow and I'm not allowed to have.

00:42:04.060 But you're allowed to carry.

00:42:05.080 You've got female bodyguards as well. 1.00

00:42:06.900 Yeah, so they can put you down.

00:42:08.580 Yeah, yeah.

00:42:09.900 Because, you know, when they're on the street, I want them to be protected.

00:42:13.380 Yeah.

00:42:13.580 And where I live, they're robbing people in affluent neighborhoods now.

00:42:17.540 And they're getting away with it.

00:42:18.800 Nothing's going down.

00:42:19.960 It's insanity.

00:42:21.400 So we can't stand another four years of that.

00:42:24.260 I don't know what our country will look like.

00:42:25.580 So whether it be Trump or anybody but Biden, you know, I don't care.

00:42:30.960 Get Biden out of there.

00:42:32.020 You mentioned Trump and you mentioned earlier that the mob used to basically run the country.

00:42:36.860 There has been a lot of talk that it was kind of hard to build any buildings in New York without dealing with your boys.

00:42:43.440 Does Donald Trump have mob connections from his past?

00:42:48.740 Well, it wasn't hard.

00:42:49.620 It was impossible.

00:42:50.540 Right.

00:42:50.900 I was being British and diplomatic about it.

00:42:53.380 Yeah.

00:42:53.640 No, you had to deal with the unions and you had to deal with us because we control the unions.

00:42:57.720 Whether you're Donald Trump, the Helmsleys, the Guttermans, you had to deal with us.

00:43:02.720 Did Donald?

00:43:03.880 See, if people look at that as, well, he's involved with organized crime.

00:43:07.780 No, he wasn't.

00:43:09.080 Now, I met Donald once through Roy Cohen.

00:43:11.360 Roy Cohen was, you know, who he was attorney and he represented Donald.

00:43:15.060 And he represented Tony Salerno, boss of the Genovese family, tried to represent me on a case.

00:43:20.420 So we had ties, but he wasn't controlled by organized crime.

00:43:25.380 He didn't owe them anything in that regard.

00:43:27.960 But, yeah, did he pay, you know, somebody to get a sweetheart deal with the union?

00:43:32.780 That was the way of doing business in New York.

00:43:35.360 You had to.

00:43:36.300 You weren't going to get a building.

00:43:37.280 I mean, I had to deal with the boss of the Jersey family where every window that went into every building in Manhattan, you had to pay us a fee. 0.97

00:43:44.840 Sounds profitable.

00:43:46.120 Yeah, it was.

00:43:47.760 You know, cost of doing business.

00:43:49.540 That was it.

00:43:50.940 But, you know, we didn't control Donald Trump at all.

00:43:54.800 No, or Helmsley or any of these people.

00:43:57.180 It's not true.

00:43:57.940 Michael, did you ever control people in the higher echelons of government?

00:44:02.220 And maybe somebody who was sitting in the Senate would just go, you know, maybe you need to bring this up.

00:44:09.100 Well, maybe you don't want to do this.

00:44:10.880 Absolutely.

00:44:11.480 I had I had 18 licenses for Panamanian companies that I had to collect tax on every gallon of gasoline.

00:44:20.700 I had a political connection with the strongest politician in all of New York.

00:44:26.440 He was the head of the Democratic Party.

00:44:29.900 We used to work with Democrats.

00:44:32.180 They were a lot easier to corrupt.

00:44:34.240 That's the truth.

00:44:35.940 They were true.

00:44:37.660 Republicans, law and order. 0.96

00:44:39.460 Democrats, corruptible.

00:44:40.840 No problem. 0.93

00:44:41.540 OK, so.

00:44:43.480 So you voted Democrat whenever you voted.

00:44:45.280 Absolutely.

00:44:45.960 We stormed Democrat.

00:44:46.940 Yeah, we didn't like Donald Trump.

00:44:48.340 Back then we would have voted against him.

00:44:50.080 We didn't want law and order.

00:44:51.200 But in that regard.

00:44:52.880 But yeah, I mean, we had.

00:44:54.740 Look, I attended many fundraisers and, you know, we helped him.

00:44:59.680 He helped us.

00:45:00.460 There's no question.

00:45:01.400 And that was one of many.

00:45:03.100 So when you look at the Senate and you look at these people coming out and they're talking about America and, you know, the American dream or whatever it may be.

00:45:14.720 How cynical are you of these politicians?

00:45:17.260 Are you there going, yeah, I know your game?

00:45:19.500 Extremely cynical.

00:45:21.840 Listen, I understand the game.

00:45:24.460 I really do.

00:45:25.440 And I get it.

00:45:26.080 And I don't begrudge anybody.

00:45:27.440 I understand that these politicians come in as blue collar people and they go out as multimillionaires.

00:45:33.860 Nancy Pelosi.

00:45:34.920 OK, multimillionaire.

00:45:36.060 She's the best stock trader in the whole world.

00:45:38.540 Why is that?

00:45:39.420 Maybe she has some inside information that you and I would go to jail for if we had it inside of trading. 0.72

00:45:44.160 I get it.

00:45:45.300 You know, they use their position to make themselves set up in life.

00:45:49.420 I can almost understand that.

00:45:51.500 But when you do that, OK, and you do that and you're hurting the people that put you in office, that I don't like.

00:46:00.200 I don't like the fact that they lie.

00:46:03.320 They just lie.

00:46:05.100 It's so blatant now.

00:46:06.560 There was a time during my life where the politicians liked to have some integrity, you know, to show that they were above board.

00:46:13.400 Now, because everything is on video, everything, you can see it a minute.

00:46:16.560 They just lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie. 0.97

00:46:19.800 The hypocrisy is... 0.97

00:46:22.560 I just went on Rumble.

00:46:24.640 And the reason I went on Rumble is because I can't talk as freely on YouTube.

00:46:28.080 You know that platform.

00:46:29.060 You get shadow banned and all of that.

00:46:30.400 But on Rumble, you can talk because I need an outlet for what I believe in because I love my country.

00:46:36.800 And I tell people, listen, I got seven kids and seven grandchildren.

00:46:40.660 And America is going down a very bad road.

00:46:43.540 And I'm very concerned for them.

00:46:45.740 I really am.

00:46:46.980 And there's just a...

00:46:48.600 People don't have any honor anymore.

00:46:50.460 You know, public office used to be something of honor, I think, and integrity.

00:46:54.680 And I don't see it.

00:46:55.600 Not everybody.

00:46:56.580 Now, you know, I hate to say this like I'm painting, you know, the canvas with one broad.

00:47:00.220 I'm not.

00:47:01.080 There's a lot of people that mean well and do well.

00:47:03.580 But a good percentage of them are just not in that category.

00:47:07.220 And Michael, we're talking about your background.

00:47:09.920 And I sense two things at the same time.

00:47:12.200 Like, on the one hand, you call it an evil life that you say destroyed your family.

00:47:16.220 But there's also like, there's a pride to it as well, it seems to me, or a code or a bond with the people that you were with.

00:47:24.640 Am I right about that?

00:47:26.380 I think so.

00:47:27.280 Yeah.

00:47:27.700 You know, look, there's a lot of guys there that I had good feelings for, that I really liked, you know.

00:47:35.520 They were, listen, I'm going to be straight out.

00:47:38.420 I mean, there might have been killers because in that life, you make a mistake and your best friend may kill you.

00:47:44.660 And that's just the way it is.

00:47:47.100 And I'm not saying that's right or wrong or whatever.

00:47:50.160 The way we justified that, hey, we all took the oath.

00:47:53.740 We all know what the consequences are.

00:47:55.440 We have to stay in line.

00:47:56.480 So we looked at it like that.

00:47:58.240 I'm not saying that's right, but that's how we viewed it at the time.

00:48:01.200 But there were also guys that were good guys.

00:48:04.240 You know, why do good people do bad things?

00:48:07.600 That's an age-old question.

00:48:08.900 Who knows?

00:48:09.260 But I had pride in the life because during my era, I think we were a force to be reckoned with.

00:48:18.940 And it wasn't only, you know, when you take that oath, people think it was an oath to lie, steal, cheat, kill, murder.

00:48:25.240 That's not the oath.

00:48:26.680 The oath of omerta means silence.

00:48:28.800 You're never supposed to even admit that the organization exists.

00:48:32.300 That's what the oath is.

00:48:33.300 Now, other things happen, you know, as part of that life, obviously.

00:48:38.620 But, you know, you talk about murder.

00:48:40.880 There's some guys on YouTube now, you would think that every day their assignment was go kill somebody. 0.99

00:48:45.680 Go kill this guy. 1.00

00:48:46.680 Go hit this guy with a baseball bat. 1.00

00:48:48.460 Go do this. 1.00

00:48:49.420 It's insanity.

00:48:50.620 There's a guy there that says, you know, he baseball batted 100 people.

00:48:53.400 He killed 50 people.

00:48:55.080 If you're in Vietnam, you're not going to kill 50 people. 0.83

00:48:57.980 Where are you going to find 50 people on the street to kill? 0.98

00:49:00.200 One guy. 0.99

00:49:00.700 You know, they just say these things.

00:49:03.400 It's crazy.

00:49:04.620 That's not what our life was about.

00:49:07.120 Yes, if you made a mistake and it was severe enough, you may pay for it with your life.

00:49:12.340 That's just the way it is.

00:49:13.640 But we didn't go around every day trying to do that.

00:49:16.680 The last thing we wanted to do is violence because it's not good.

00:49:21.280 It brings heat and it's problems.

00:49:23.820 You know, and in our life, murder was taken very seriously. 0.89

00:49:26.940 It wasn't like, OK, go kill this guy.

00:49:28.920 No, wait a minute. 0.97

00:49:29.420 You know, there was discussion about it.

00:49:31.940 The boss was the only one that could approve it.

00:49:34.120 It had to come from him.

00:49:35.420 You just couldn't go around and kill people in that life.

00:49:38.340 And so I guess I get a little upset at times when they look at everybody. 0.77

00:49:44.700 All you guys did was murder and kill and steal every day of your life. 0.81

00:49:48.080 Not true. 0.99

00:49:48.740 Because you had to be smart as well.

00:49:52.780 You had to be really smart because if you think about it, you were running a business.

00:49:56.580 But not only was it a business, it was an illegal business.

00:49:59.580 So you had to make money.

00:50:01.440 You had to ensure everybody got paid.

00:50:02.960 And you had to hide what you were doing from the government so that they couldn't prosecute you.

00:50:08.260 Business is business.

00:50:09.300 Whether you're doing it illegally or legally, you've still got to manage your business.

00:50:14.300 And, you know, my whole gas operation was very sophisticated because, yeah, we were laundering money.

00:50:19.860 We were hiding money.

00:50:20.800 We didn't want to get caught because we were defrauding the government.

00:50:22.940 So it was a sophisticated system to do all of that.

00:50:26.060 And it took management and putting the right people in place to get it done.

00:50:30.380 So and then obviously you have your legal business.

00:50:33.500 But it's business.

00:50:35.340 But, you know, there is.

00:50:38.040 Listen, there were guys there.

00:50:39.520 I'm telling you that if they weren't the mobsters, they'd be very successful.

00:50:43.020 You seem like one of them.

00:50:44.260 Well, maybe.

00:50:45.180 Yeah.

00:50:45.560 I'm serious.

00:50:46.420 Thank you for that.

00:50:47.180 Yeah.

00:50:47.600 Thank you.

00:50:48.620 They would have been very successful.

00:50:50.440 No question.

00:50:51.300 They were smart guys.

00:50:52.100 Hey, Frank Costello.

00:50:54.260 You know who he was.

00:50:55.320 Boss of the Genovese family.

00:50:56.720 Brilliant guy.

00:50:57.680 If I had to look up to a mob guy, he would be my guy.

00:51:01.200 They called him the prime minister.

00:51:02.660 Right.

00:51:03.220 Politically connected very well.

00:51:05.000 Had his major gambling operation.

00:51:06.900 You know, he had around the country.

00:51:08.920 Extremely wealthy guy.

00:51:10.020 Strong business guy.

00:51:11.280 And he didn't like the violence.

00:51:13.480 Hey, if we got to do it, we got to do it.

00:51:15.680 But that's not what we want to do.

00:51:17.700 You know, and and that's the way you approach the life.

00:51:21.360 You know.

00:51:22.100 But I'm telling you, get me in trouble.

00:51:24.460 Some of these politicians, man.

00:51:27.220 Jeffrey Epstein.

00:51:28.780 If you believe that that guy committed suicide, you believe in Santa Claus.

00:51:32.480 I was on the same block that he was on.

00:51:35.320 There's no way you're going to be committing suicide, especially a guy that high profile.

00:51:39.580 Forget it.

00:51:40.140 They're watching him 24 hours.

00:51:41.500 Just so happens.

00:51:42.360 All the cameras went out and the guards went to sleep at the same time.

00:51:45.240 Come on.

00:51:45.640 Where did that come from?

00:51:48.920 It wasn't us.

00:51:50.000 Right.

00:51:50.780 And you mentioned politics.

00:51:53.080 It just particularly when you were talking about the world.

00:51:56.680 You just I had the sense that, you know, somewhat politically correct.

00:52:01.460 Well, there's certain things that we don't understand.

00:52:03.420 But what you were saying about Trump in particular, something I've been saying for a long time, which is if America's weak, people are going to take advantage.

00:52:09.600 And I bet you there are lots of things you learn in that life that are actually quite useful for understanding how the world works and moving through the world.

00:52:18.160 So you go around speaking to people now, young people, you speak in prisons.

00:52:22.240 What did you learn?

00:52:23.500 What what do you have to say to people about, you know, how to conduct yourself, how to behave, how to do this, how to do that, how to avoid the life that you were part of and, you know, stay on the straight and narrow?

00:52:34.440 Well, you know, one of the things just going back to what you said, Ronald Reagan, you know, he coined the phrase peace through strength was the same way on the street.

00:52:43.300 You wanted peace, but people had to know that don't mess with us.

00:52:47.400 OK, and that's what Donald Trump and some other president showed about America.

00:52:51.940 We have to be strong.

00:52:53.260 You have to.

00:52:54.280 America cannot be weak.

00:52:55.400 We have too many enemies.

00:52:56.300 Too many people want to take advantage of that.

00:52:58.300 But, you know, number one, I dissuade these young people from the gang life, the mob life, the street life. 0.98

00:53:04.940 It's a dead end street at some point.

00:53:06.580 There's no question about it.

00:53:08.180 And, you know, I speak to a lot of gang bangers, went into a lot of prisons throughout my lifetime, a lot of juvenile halls.

00:53:14.380 And it's very sad to see the condition of young men today.

00:53:17.260 And I believe I believe this all has to do with the breakup of the family.

00:53:21.200 That's the root cause, because these young boys and girls, they don't have mentors in their life.

00:53:27.580 You know, they don't.

00:53:28.520 And it's very hard to navigate life without people teaching you.

00:53:32.220 My mentor was my dad.

00:53:34.140 Now, he may have been a criminal organized crime, but in the house, he taught me a lot of things.

00:53:39.160 Son, be a good listener.

00:53:40.920 He said, don't run your mouth.

00:53:42.180 Listen to people first.

00:53:43.220 Let them talk before you answer. 0.71

00:53:44.660 And when you answer, make sure it's intelligent or shut up.

00:53:47.940 Tell me straight out, right?

00:53:49.280 Be the last one to judge somebody, because one day your time is going to come, and people are going to judge you the way you judge them.

00:53:56.120 If you're the last one, you got a shot.

00:53:57.960 If you got a first one, you're in trouble.

00:54:00.080 In my life, that was very important.

00:54:02.400 You were the first one to judge.

00:54:03.760 The guys that I knew that were most violent, they were the first ones to go, to lose their lives.

00:54:09.100 You know, so, you know, he used to tell me, be kind to the little people.

00:54:13.000 Be respectful to them.

00:54:14.320 When he said little people, he wasn't meaning in a demeaning way.

00:54:17.460 It was just his way of talking.

00:54:18.640 But he said, you know, the valet parker, the waitress, you know, the person that takes your coat, be kind to them, respectful to them, treat them right.

00:54:26.300 They're the people that make you strong.

00:54:28.340 It's not the people on top.

00:54:29.540 The people on top are looking at a gun for you.

00:54:31.700 And I lived through these principles throughout my life, and it was very effective.

00:54:35.220 He told me, too, you go to prison, you're going to go one day.

00:54:38.140 He said, remember three words.

00:54:40.540 Please, thank you, and excuse me.

00:54:43.100 He said, because everybody in jail, so many of them never got respect on the street.

00:54:47.120 Now in jail, they want to throw their chest out and show that they're respectful guys.

00:54:50.480 So you bunk into somebody.

00:54:52.160 Excuse me.

00:54:52.820 Didn't mean that.

00:54:53.840 You want to cut in the line.

00:54:56.500 Please, do you mind if I get in?

00:54:57.760 It's my friend over here.

00:54:59.100 Somebody hand you something.

00:55:00.140 Thank you.

00:55:00.920 You get those three words.

00:55:02.660 You don't have no trouble in prison.

00:55:04.220 I never had a problem in prison.

00:55:05.580 John Gotti got beat up in prison.

00:55:07.660 You're throwing your weight around in prison with guys that are doing life.

00:55:10.500 They don't care who you are. 1.00

00:55:11.860 Oh, kill me. 1.00

00:55:12.400 What do I got to lose? 1.00

00:55:13.320 I'm going to be in this cell for the rest of my life.

00:55:15.260 They don't care.

00:55:16.400 I know a number of guys that were tough on the street, didn't get handled well in prison.

00:55:20.580 You can't do that, you know?

00:55:22.460 So things that I learned from my mentor, my dad, served me very well throughout my life,

00:55:30.440 whether I was on the street or afterwards.

00:55:32.260 You know, and I tell these young kids the same thing, you know?

00:55:35.960 Look, you know, people say to you, Michael, you know, who are you?

00:55:39.400 I was asked this morning, you know, who did you fear the most in that life?

00:55:43.420 There's a guy by the name of Roy DeMeo.

00:55:45.000 I don't know if you ever heard of him.

00:55:46.120 You know, Roy was kind of a serial killer in that life.

00:55:49.380 You know, if you look him up, he was just a tough one.

00:55:51.400 Did you ever fear Roy?

00:55:52.560 I said, no.

00:55:53.580 I had no reason to fear Roy.

00:55:55.280 Well, you know, he was just a tough guy.

00:55:56.800 I said, hey, any one of us could put a gun in our hand and do what we had to do.

00:56:00.100 I had no reason to fear Roy DeMeo.

00:56:03.300 I feared my boss because he had the power of life and death over me.

00:56:07.200 If I were to make a mistake, I know that this guy can pull the trigger on me, you know?

00:56:11.200 The other guys can't, and I can defend myself.

00:56:13.560 I can't defend myself against him.

00:56:15.320 So, you know, you learn a lot of these things that are very, very helpful, you know?

00:56:21.980 You know, I got put in a situation one time where I was walked into a room.

00:56:27.040 I didn't know if I was going to walk out.

00:56:29.120 I was very scared.

00:56:30.560 I don't mind telling you that's a scary situation of being in.

00:56:33.660 But it showed me that I could face death because I faced it.

00:56:37.760 I was scared, but I faced it.

00:56:40.040 Prepared me for walking away from that life when I knew I was going to be in trouble.

00:56:43.840 So a lot of things that I learned on the street, I took to heart that helped me later on.

00:56:49.520 Michael, it's been an absolutely fascinating conversation.

00:56:54.720 Thank you so much.

00:56:55.460 We're also going to ask questions from our locals.

00:56:57.660 They're our supporters.

00:56:58.660 All that content will go behind the paywall.

00:57:01.280 But we always end our interviews with the same question, which is,

00:57:04.440 what's the one thing we're not talking about as a society that we really should be?

00:57:09.040 Well, I think, again, and this is a product of me having children and grandchildren,

00:57:14.900 one of the things that's really gotten me that I don't think there's enough conversation about

00:57:19.440 hopefully it's happening, is this gender-affirming surgery among minor children.

00:57:27.080 It's horrific.

00:57:28.500 It's mutilation.

00:57:29.820 I did my research, spoke to doctors, read enough articles on it.

00:57:33.680 And the fact that we're allowing it to happen is just criminal.

00:57:39.920 It's criminal.

00:57:40.680 There's no other way to put it.

00:57:42.180 And again, I have to say it again, you know, another thing I have with Joe Biden,

00:57:47.040 Joe Biden made a statement, and I think he's just pandering to people to do this.

00:57:50.520 And it's horrible to pander.

00:57:52.200 To give up your integrity like this to the detriment of people is horrible.

00:57:58.140 He said that banning, banning gender-affirming surgery among minors is both immoral and outrageous.

00:58:06.960 And I was stunned when I heard that from a father, a grandfather.

00:58:12.000 How do you say this?

00:58:13.080 I mean, I don't get it.

00:58:14.680 There's not enough conversation about stopping this because now finally it's coming out that

00:58:21.680 young people that have undergone that terrible surgery or have had puberty blockers or things

00:58:26.980 like that, that happens to be reversible.

00:58:29.160 And they took it at a time when they weren't, they're just not mentally able to understand

00:58:35.140 what's going on with them.

00:58:36.640 So rather than getting therapy and guidance and proper care, they just went right to the

00:58:41.940 surgery.

00:58:42.700 And it's, it's been horrible situation.

00:58:46.400 I don't think we're talking enough about that.

00:58:48.360 I think that has to be a major conversation.

00:58:51.420 I don't know how it is in the UK.

00:58:52.780 We talk about it a lot.

00:58:54.060 We've covered it on the show extensively.

00:58:56.040 And there's been some pushback.

00:58:57.620 Yeah, I applaud you for that.

00:58:58.840 No, but you're right to bring it up.

00:59:00.040 I think it's, we agree with you.

00:59:02.900 Put it that way.

00:59:03.840 Michael, join us over on Locals where we ask your questions and continue the conversation.

00:59:10.560 Since you became a Christian, how have you changed and what differences do you see in

00:59:14.980 yourself now compared to who you were in the Mafia?

00:59:18.220 Your full Great Outdoors Comedy Festival lineup is here on September 11th through 13th at

00:59:30.200 Arendale Park.

00:59:31.360 Three nights, five shows, huge laughs.

00:59:34.540 September 11th through 13th.

00:59:36.160 Buy tickets now at greatoutdoorscomedyfestival.com.

00:59:39.720 We'll see you next time.

TRIGGERnometry - March 13, 2024

My Life as a Mafia Boss - Michael Franzese

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