TRIGGERnometry - NBA Champion： Players Hide Their True Feelings About Social Justice - Andrew Bogut

00:00:00.480 I was sort of thinking, why has Andrew been so outspoken on a few recent issues?

00:00:06.040 And then right at the beginning of the interview, he went,

00:00:08.000 oh, son of Croatian parents who left communist Yugoslavia.

00:00:12.200 Yeah, OK, I see that now.

00:00:14.260 I know what they say in the locker room is a 180 to what they're saying publicly.

00:00:20.400 Especially when it comes to public mantra and stuff that the mainstream is pushing,

00:00:25.880 you can't disagree with that.

00:00:27.080 I got put through a critical race theory seminar while I was an NBA player.

00:00:31.980 Wow. Shit. 1.00

00:00:33.640 I was that guy asking questions during it, which was not very well received. 0.99

00:00:39.060 I lose out on marketing just because of this.

00:00:40.880 I lose out on making a bit more cash on marketing and promos and speaking gigs.

00:00:46.040 People like that.

00:00:46.940 We just don't touch it just in case someone protests us or gets mad at us or whatever. 0.97

00:00:51.240 So I'm going to continue to speak out on stuff that's just utterly ridiculous.

00:00:57.080 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry.

00:01:07.780 I'm Francis Foster.

00:01:09.060 I'm Constantine Kishin.

00:01:10.040 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:01:14.820 Our brilliant guest today is an NBA champion all the way over from Australia, Andrew Boga.

00:01:19.440 Welcome to Trigonometry.

00:01:21.080 Thanks for having me.

00:01:21.740 I'm actually an avid listener.

00:01:22.880 I've listened to a lot of a few of your shows.

00:01:24.720 So I appreciate you having me on.

00:01:25.820 Well, brother, right back at you.

00:01:27.680 I was a huge fan of the Golden State Warriors when you were winning the championship there

00:01:32.480 and playing with some of the greatest players in the world.

00:01:34.920 And before we get into it, we want to talk to you about both politics and culture and sport as well.

00:01:42.260 We wanted to touch on the sport side.

00:01:44.260 So for people who are not basketball fans, briefly tell everybody who are you, how are you, where you are,

00:01:49.560 what has been your journey through life that leads you to be sitting here talking to us?

00:01:54.540 Yeah, I'm born and raised in Australia, Croatian immigrant family that migrated, left communist Yugoslavia many, many years ago.

00:02:03.400 So similar story to yourself and went over to the U.S. in the collegiate system as a young fellow, got a scholarship to the University of Utah, went there for a few years, got drafted as the first number one draft pick, number all overall pick from Australia ever.

00:02:21.600 So that was a really cool thing for our country and we weren't really a basketball nation to see where we are now and then played in the NBA for 14 years, played in Australia for two years towards the end of my career and played for the national team.

00:02:33.740 And that's kind of what I'm primarily known for was sport and basketball.

00:02:38.580 Yeah, absolutely. And you sort of you touched on being the first number one draft pick.

00:02:46.840 Sorry, I haven't had enough coffee this morning.

00:02:49.220 You touched on you kind of glossed over the fact that you were the number one pick.

00:02:53.980 That is a huge achievement.

00:02:56.160 I mean, the players who have been the number one draft pick, even Michael Jordan was in the first number picked first.

00:03:02.500 That's the kind of level of honor that it was.

00:03:04.580 And you said the first one from Australia.

00:03:06.460 But one thing that occurs to me, Andrew, as an Australian, you being an Australian, is Australia massively outperforms, punches above its weight in so many sports compared to the size of population.

00:03:18.760 So if you think of the NBA, for example, there's so many Aussie players there compared to Britain, which has a much bigger population.

00:03:25.460 You guys are crushing it. Why do you think that is?

00:03:28.960 Yeah, I mean, we do rule out 25 million odd people.

00:03:32.020 I think we have nine or ten NBA players from Australia right now, which is just, you know, per capita is amazing.

00:03:38.920 But we, thinking it was the 80s, 70s, 60s, 70s era, we didn't do too well at the Olympics.

00:03:44.540 And the government had implemented this kind of a precinct, which was called the AIS, Australian Institute of Sport.

00:03:52.340 And they threw a lot of tax money at, hey, we're going to the Olympics, we don't want to come back empty-handed.

00:03:58.120 And they invested in sport.

00:04:00.160 They built a world-class facility in Canberra, which is the nation's capital where all politicians live.

00:04:04.500 And, you know, I ended up going there for a year and a half and it was sensational.

00:04:07.600 It was a 16, 70-year-old.

00:04:09.040 I went there, taught you everything about food, diet, sleep, weight room, all that kind of stuff that you need to do outside of your primary training.

00:04:16.540 And they invested a lot of that.

00:04:18.240 So there was swimmers, there was water polo, there was volleyball.

00:04:20.860 And then, to no surprise, we started doing well at the Olympics.

00:04:24.340 Now we're on the other side of that.

00:04:26.140 Now we're on the other side of, you know, they're starting to dry up a lot of that funding now just because it's, you know, topical for politicians to do that.

00:04:34.600 All these gritty sports stars, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:04:38.120 And at times, I've seen a bit of a dwindling performance.

00:04:40.600 So it'll be interesting to see what happens in this next couple of years.

00:04:43.100 We've got the Olympics, of course, in 2032 in Brisbane.

00:04:46.440 So hopefully we're going to have a good performance.

00:04:47.880 But that would be the biggest change for the Australian sporting landscape as to why I think we punch above our weight.

00:04:54.700 It's a really interesting point that you've made and about the investment.

00:04:58.300 It's so important, the investment in sport and in young people.

00:05:02.500 Andrew, you were very young when you got traded into the NBA.

00:05:06.140 You started your career in the NBA.

00:05:08.100 You didn't even finish college at that point.

00:05:10.820 What was that like as a young lad?

00:05:13.100 Yeah, I went to the University of Utah first, did a North Seoul in the USA, landed on the plane and just knew who my coach was because he had the logo on his jacket.

00:05:23.580 And then when I got drafted to the NBA two years later, I wasn't even of legal drinking age in the U.S.

00:05:28.640 So I was on a $6 million contract at the time in the U.S.

00:05:33.220 And I couldn't go to the bar and have a drink.

00:05:35.600 So my teammates snuck me into a few places before I turned.

00:05:39.660 And then halfway through the season, I finally turned 21.

00:05:42.460 So look, it was eye-opening.

00:05:44.260 I mean, my journey, I was a real late developer.

00:05:46.360 I was not that kid that was picked first.

00:05:48.820 I was not that kid that was the man all throughout junior basketball.

00:05:51.520 Like, you know, 11, 12, 13, 14, I had a kind of a tough journey.

00:05:56.380 A lot of people said I meant to make it, all that kind of stuff, which fueled me, which was great.

00:05:59.840 I looked back at it.

00:06:00.440 I wouldn't change it for the world.

00:06:02.020 And then within like a three-year period, I went from nobody to the number one peak, literally.

00:06:06.300 I'm not exaggerating.

00:06:07.120 I went, you know, about six months before college.

00:06:10.020 I put my name on the world map, kind of, at the World Junior Championships and then two years in college.

00:06:14.420 And then I was drafted.

00:06:15.200 So it just happened so quickly that, to be honest with you, I didn't know what to expect because I was just sort of the next thing, the next thing, the next thing.

00:06:22.740 But once you get to the NBA, all the distractions of being a pro off the court are probably the hardest adjustments, you know, finances, money, agents, women at times, all that kind of stuff.

00:06:34.160 You got a kind of, you know, business dealings, shady people, you know, fraud attempts, theft attempts, all that kind of stuff.

00:06:42.260 There's a lot that goes on that people don't understand or realize.

00:06:44.960 And you kind of have to have your head on a swivel.

00:06:46.400 I grew up in like a lower socioeconomic area for the most part.

00:06:51.100 And that was huge for me, kind of navigating.

00:06:54.560 I knew where not to go.

00:06:55.660 I knew which people to avoid.

00:06:57.000 I'm on the public bus.

00:06:58.340 That guy looks like he's high on something.

00:07:00.020 I'm going to go sit over here.

00:07:00.840 So I felt like that helped me on my later journey once I got finances to try and make sure that, you know, my family could have wealth for at least the rest of the time while I'm alive.

00:07:10.420 And hopefully their kids are their grandkids.

00:07:13.040 Andrew, and look, comparing it.

00:07:15.600 So I really enjoy basketball.

00:07:17.840 Constantine and I and the rest of the guys went to a Miami Heat playoff game.

00:07:21.920 It was so much fun.

00:07:22.840 We loved it.

00:07:23.420 But my main sport is football, soccer.

00:07:27.240 And a lot of the time you see these young lads and they come from the same kind of, you know, area as you.

00:07:33.940 They sign their big money contract in the Premier League and they go absolutely nuts.

00:07:39.480 And you can't blame them.

00:07:41.000 So how did you not go insane or did you go insane and you had a very good agent to keep it under wraps?

00:07:47.040 Because I listened and I read statistics and I knew that, you know, over 80% of professional athletes go broke within five years of retirement.

00:07:56.280 I knew that from the start.

00:07:57.860 I was like, I'm not going to be that guy.

00:07:59.080 I've worked too hard to get to this point.

00:08:01.480 And I knew how hard it was.

00:08:02.680 Like our family, you know, was between middle class and lower class.

00:08:06.360 My father had his own business.

00:08:07.560 So it depended on how the economy was going was how we went.

00:08:11.180 He had his own business.

00:08:11.880 And there were times where I remember, you know, we were eating the same meal in a big pot for five straight days, you know, like reheating it, reheating it, reheating it.

00:08:20.620 And then there were times where we were eating out and having pizza, like we had good and bad.

00:08:24.180 So I experienced both ends of it.

00:08:25.420 And I just knew how hard my family worked or parents worked to put food on the table.

00:08:30.100 I was like, I don't want to lose that and squander that.

00:08:32.600 So I always made sure that I was thinking about, you know, investing in the right thing, bettering myself financially.

00:08:37.880 You know, I took a class while I was in the NBA, a personal wealth management class at a university online.

00:08:43.840 So just stuff like that, trying to better myself and just being in those meetings.

00:08:48.160 You know, I remember going to my first finance meeting with my financial advisor my rookie year and I had no idea what the hell he was talking about.

00:08:53.940 I was using abbreviations.

00:08:55.160 I was using this and yield and this.

00:08:57.140 I have no idea what you're talking about.

00:08:58.580 Like I just said, all I know is if my money's not there, there's a plane load of friends coming over from Australia, they're going to find where it is.

00:09:04.900 That's kind of what I said.

00:09:05.800 What I said to him and it bothered me.

00:09:09.300 I was like, man, I can't really participate in these meetings with these smart people.

00:09:13.860 So I've bettered myself and I've done pretty well.

00:09:16.700 Like I'm doing okay and I've retired and I can not have to work another day in my life and I'll be fine.

00:09:21.800 Well, that's amazing, man.

00:09:22.920 And one of the things you mentioned earlier was the fact that there were a lot of people doubting you and saying you're not going to make it.

00:09:30.040 Why was that?

00:09:32.900 Look, there was a mix of things.

00:09:34.020 I was, you know, a non-Anglo name.

00:09:38.400 By that I mean Bogut's not a very Australian name.

00:09:41.660 It's a smithler or a dine.

00:09:42.640 So our family didn't fit in with the in crowds and junior sport, all that kind of stuff.

00:09:47.480 My father had a lot of issues growing up.

00:09:49.860 English wasn't his first language.

00:09:51.080 Didn't know a word of it when he came over from Croatia at 16.

00:09:53.100 So our family had a chip on our shoulder as it is and we're passionate people.

00:09:56.820 The bulk of it is generally a very passionate people.

00:10:00.280 You can say that again.

00:10:01.640 Yeah.

00:10:02.720 In Australian culture sometimes.

00:10:04.380 But that was a part of it.

00:10:05.960 And I just, I was always kind of mustered my own drama.

00:10:09.060 I kind of didn't really, I kind of was stuck on loving sport and playing sport.

00:10:13.660 And I was passionate, man.

00:10:15.980 So poor 30-year-old, if we're teammates and you're not playing the right way as a 30-year-old,

00:10:21.660 I was going to go at you as my teammate.

00:10:23.500 Like, hey, pass the ball, dude.

00:10:24.660 Like, your teammate was open.

00:10:25.800 Pass the ball.

00:10:26.440 And other parents would sit down and be like, oh, that kid's got an attitude problem.

00:10:29.500 Oh, look at him.

00:10:30.460 Look how badly behaved he is.

00:10:31.800 And it was from a point of, I want to play the game the right way.

00:10:35.160 It really leaves me off.

00:10:37.060 You're not playing the game the right way.

00:10:38.320 Oh, well, you know, don't be rude about it.

00:10:39.960 No, no, play the right way.

00:10:41.100 So I got labeled as a kid with attitude problem, you know, and I look back at that time and

00:10:45.780 I'm like, I coach kids now today and I like kids that have an attitude problem.

00:10:51.180 I like kids that have a bit of oomph because I'm like, you know, every two or three weeks,

00:10:56.020 you might need to pick them up and put them back on the track because they fly off the

00:10:58.460 radar once every now and then.

00:11:00.460 I'll take that every day of the week because I know I don't have to motivate that kid every

00:11:03.900 day, right?

00:11:04.880 I'd rather do that than every day I have to come like, come on, Jimmy, let's go.

00:11:08.360 Let's work hard, man.

00:11:09.080 Come on, run a bit faster.

00:11:09.920 Whereas a kid that's been the attitude, you know, once every now and then they blew up

00:11:13.880 and I always look back and like, it's a coach's job to figure that out, to figure out the

00:11:18.160 psychology of different players.

00:11:19.320 And no one really figured that out of me or even attempted to, which was really disappointing.

00:11:22.960 But anyway, I progressed on and used it as fuel.

00:11:26.540 And like I said, I wouldn't change the world.

00:11:28.760 If I didn't have that journey of not fitting in and maxing all the best teams as a young

00:11:33.740 fella, I wouldn't be talking to you today.

00:11:35.320 Oh, yeah, absolutely.

00:11:37.720 And that story, actually, I think is the story of many professional sports players that ended

00:11:42.440 up making it.

00:11:43.280 They had that drive and passion from a young age, not always recognized.

00:11:47.640 Do you think that attitude is partly what made you as successful as you eventually became?

00:11:53.240 Yeah, there's no doubt.

00:11:55.640 No doubt about it.

00:11:57.440 I just put a chip on my shoulder and I literally felt like the whole adage of me against the

00:12:02.340 world, you hear that from everyone, but I felt like that.

00:12:05.640 I really felt like the world was against me and I probably used it even more.

00:12:09.900 I try to be, I'm not going to be a victim, but I'm going to mentally, I'm going to say

00:12:15.220 I am a victim.

00:12:16.040 So I can fight even harder.

00:12:16.980 But really, every day was about that.

00:12:20.820 I had a chip on my shoulder every day, like ready to go, ready to fight, ready to amped

00:12:24.040 up, even just basic training sessions, I'm ready to go.

00:12:27.200 And I think that's kind of the attitude you have to have.

00:12:29.340 I think all the kids that were household names at 11, 12, 13, they all fizzle out because

00:12:35.880 they don't have to continue to work as hard.

00:12:39.320 They can kind of just coast through and still be the best.

00:12:41.380 You know, your early developers and childhoods are usually those kids that just don't make

00:12:44.620 it well and ever really make it professional.

00:12:47.640 It's usually kids that are, you know, beat it up by all those kids and then eventually

00:12:51.520 they put more and more effort and time in and then all of a sudden that curve intersects

00:12:55.520 and then it just goes like that, right?

00:12:56.920 And then you're just absolutely dominating the talented kids and that was kind of my story.

00:13:01.200 And Andrew, what percentage of your success is down to natural talent, your physique, and

00:13:09.660 how much of it is down to mindset?

00:13:11.740 And what percentage do you think is luck as well?

00:13:15.500 Look, I think I'm obviously very lucky to have the size being seven foot tall and long

00:13:20.400 and athletic, but I will say this, there's a lot of seven footers out there that can't

00:13:24.640 even walk in a straight line, right?

00:13:25.960 So I still had to work.

00:13:27.160 I still had to put a lot of work in for, I was growing at a rapid rate and now every

00:13:31.280 time I grew as a young fellow, I lost coordination.

00:13:33.560 You know, all of a sudden I'm like, why am I tripping over my own feet?

00:13:35.780 Or why is this not feel right?

00:13:37.620 Because I just grew three inches in a month or two inches in a month, right?

00:13:40.620 So that was messing me up through adolescence and puberty.

00:13:43.500 I was a super late developer.

00:13:44.760 So I think a lot of it was work.

00:13:47.480 People will say, oh, well, you're seven foot, but I can point you to a lot of seven footers

00:13:51.040 that don't play basketball, 6'11 guys all around the world, former college teammates that

00:13:54.620 just didn't make it to the pros.

00:13:56.320 So I put a lot of time in, a lot of effort, and I just loved the game.

00:13:59.780 I really, I didn't play basketball because I was tall.

00:14:02.540 I played basketball first and foremost because I loved it.

00:14:04.700 I was tall as a young fellow, 9, 10, 11, 12, stopped growing.

00:14:10.060 Everyone passed me. 0.99

00:14:10.920 I'm like, well, shit, this isn't good for a basketball future. 1.00

00:14:14.260 It passed me. 0.99

00:14:15.580 Then I had a massive spurt, like 14 to 16, I grew six and a half, seven inches.

00:14:20.960 But I just loved the game.

00:14:22.080 I'd watch it on TV whenever it was on.

00:14:23.680 I'd study it.

00:14:24.340 I'd print the stat sheets back in the day off NBA.com.

00:14:27.220 I'd just take them home from school.

00:14:28.580 I'd use all the school printers, and I just loved the game.

00:14:31.060 I'd be in English class drawing basketball for my paper, even in high school.

00:14:35.280 That's all I did.

00:14:35.920 I just loved it.

00:14:37.000 I just hated Mondays because I knew Friday was far away.

00:14:41.260 Then once you've got Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, oh, I've got a basketball game tonight,

00:14:44.420 and then I'm playing all weekend.

00:14:45.800 I was in heaven.

00:14:46.500 So I really, truly love the game.

00:14:48.980 And what is the difference, Andrew, between a good player in the NBA?

00:14:53.760 Because let's be honest, to get to the NBA, I mean, you're an anomaly.

00:14:57.480 Most people never get to that elite level of sport, even the most talented,

00:15:02.780 as we've just acknowledged, for whatever reason.

00:15:05.380 But you get players who are good players at that elite level.

00:15:09.520 But then there's that level above.

00:15:12.820 The Steph Currys, you know, the Kyrie Irvings, Michael Jordans, Shaquille O'Neal,

00:15:17.740 all of these people.

00:15:18.680 What separates them?

00:15:19.920 Is it a physical thing, or is there something else on top of that?

00:15:22.860 I mean, Steph's a mix of, Steph just, Steph Curry just has it.

00:15:28.140 Like, he just, he's one of those guys that, you know, I can, let's try to throw this pen

00:15:33.860 in that cup over there, and he'll just, two or three shots, and then, got it.

00:15:38.540 He's one of those guys, and then it gets, even just random dumb stuff that he's never

00:15:41.820 done before.

00:15:42.900 But he also has a work ethic match with that, right?

00:15:45.280 So, ever rarely these days you see natural talent be that dominant.

00:15:49.960 It's not going to be, it's going to be, you're going to have it, but you also need

00:15:53.340 to mix it in.

00:15:54.060 And you see, LeBron's a little bit different, just because he's a physical specimen.

00:15:57.460 Like, he's athletically and physically and stronger than everyone, faster than everyone.

00:16:00.940 Steph's just, he's one, he's a game changer.

00:16:04.480 He's a generational player that's actually changed the game.

00:16:07.340 He has Steph Myers.

00:16:09.000 He's physique, what he does.

00:16:11.280 And he's just a great guy as well.

00:16:14.020 You know, really good.

00:16:15.400 The Warriors just lucked out.

00:16:16.500 I mean, they've got Steph and Klay Thompson are just both nonchalant superstars.

00:16:21.220 Like, they're just, they still eat with their teammates, which is rare for superstars these

00:16:25.600 days.

00:16:25.960 They're still hanging out with their teammates, you know.

00:16:27.880 And to have that is unbelievable.

00:16:29.600 But those guys are just, you know, and Kyrie's the same.

00:16:33.120 Kyrie's just got the ball on a string and just things that he can do.

00:16:35.860 He's a magician.

00:16:36.540 So, it's fun watching those guys up close and trying to scheme and stop them.

00:16:39.880 And how do you stop them?

00:16:41.040 And I'm usually the last line of defense once they've got through half the team.

00:16:44.520 I'm the last guy standing so they don't try to block their shoulder and make a tough shot.

00:16:49.340 But what you learn in that business is you can play perfect defense.

00:16:52.740 Sometimes there's just better offense.

00:16:54.900 That's right.

00:16:55.660 That's right.

00:16:56.480 And Andrew, I want to ask you a couple more sporting questions before we move on to sort

00:16:59.740 of politics and culture.

00:17:01.000 But you mentioned there that often the superstars now would be sort of separate from the rest

00:17:06.820 of the teammates and stuff like that.

00:17:08.300 I actually didn't know that.

00:17:09.440 But it's sort of, not that it makes sense.

00:17:12.000 I mean, it sort of feels weird, but for people who don't know, that you might have somebody

00:17:16.120 who's making $30 million a year on a team playing with someone who's making less than

00:17:21.420 a million dollars a year, let's say.

00:17:24.140 And how does that work now?

00:17:26.860 How does that feel?

00:17:27.760 What's it like?

00:17:28.600 How do you manage a team of people with that level of disparity in terms of status and

00:17:33.500 wealth and so on?

00:17:34.980 Yeah, and disparity continues to grow.

00:17:36.420 So it's probably your max guys that are out of making $50 to $60 a year.

00:17:40.600 Oh, wow.

00:17:41.700 The rookie deal is under a mil, right?

00:17:44.540 So for some guys, anyone who drafted.

00:17:47.060 So disparity is growing.

00:17:49.540 But that's the challenge.

00:17:51.280 The NBA and professional sports, I mean, back in the 70s and 80s and 90s, a head coach's

00:17:56.700 main priority was schemes.

00:17:59.680 What offense are you running?

00:18:00.800 What defense are you running?

00:18:01.900 Can you draw plays up quickly, late game?

00:18:03.700 That was probably 80% of it, I would say.

00:18:06.860 20% was people management, man management.

00:18:09.420 I think it's flipped now.

00:18:10.940 I think there's not a lot of schemes that are secrets these days.

00:18:14.100 The copycat league, whoever wins the championship teams, will try to retool like they did and

00:18:18.060 then copy what they're doing.

00:18:19.860 So you're not really running anything that's super innovative.

00:18:22.900 Like, wow, look at that play.

00:18:24.160 I've never seen that before.

00:18:25.340 We're past that.

00:18:26.880 So it's flipped now where I've seen coaches that are Hall of Fame, X's and O's coaches,

00:18:31.480 X's and O's meaning drawn up plays, style of offense, style of defense, but they could

00:18:36.960 not communicate with their players or they were hard-headed about the way they went about

00:18:41.480 things that don't last.

00:18:42.840 Whereas you can get away with being average at that stuff, but if you've got a real good

00:18:47.900 rapport with your players, if you can kind of relate to them, if you're not too disciplined,

00:18:52.820 but you've got to have a good balance of all that, you know, you take player feedback

00:18:56.160 as well, you're engaging, you'll have a job forever.

00:18:59.560 So it's kind of flipped.

00:19:00.420 I think it's probably gone too much to the player side of things.

00:19:03.340 I think it's too player protective now.

00:19:05.500 Players, no, I'm earning $60 million as a player, let's say.

00:19:08.060 I'm a max guy, I'm earning $60 million and we just signed a new coach, but I don't like

00:19:12.260 him and he's earning $5 million.

00:19:13.420 Who do you think they're going to get rid of first?

00:19:15.620 Like, it's common sense, right?

00:19:17.080 They're going to move the cheaper commodity to keep the big star happy. 1.00

00:19:21.840 And that's what we see a lot in the NBA.

00:19:24.140 Andrew, when I look at football and I look at other professional sports, now we're about

00:19:29.920 the same age.

00:19:30.900 When we grew up in the 90s, if you look at, you know, soccer and if you look at basketball,

00:19:36.000 you had the talented maverick, the guy who was a little bit out there at times, but he

00:19:42.460 was brilliant.

00:19:43.060 He didn't play by the rules, but he was so talented that it didn't really matter.

00:19:49.560 And he was kind of magnetic.

00:19:51.220 I really enjoy Allen Iverson, for example.

00:19:54.760 Allen, to me, was one of those guys.

00:19:57.020 Do you think professional sport has kind of got rid of that type of guy because it's

00:20:01.300 now so professional and there's no room for it?

00:20:04.920 Or is there still room for that type of person?

00:20:08.220 Oh, the media love those guys because they're not as common as they once were.

00:20:13.040 Listen, as soon as you get someone that's not going to get into their box and they're

00:20:17.400 not PR prepped about what they need to say on things.

00:20:20.080 I love those guys because I'm like, at least that's them.

00:20:23.380 You know it's them, right?

00:20:25.000 But yeah, they are.

00:20:25.820 They are much rarer because marketing money's at stake.

00:20:29.880 Sponsorships are at stake.

00:20:31.640 You know, good press makes you more money long term.

00:20:35.100 You know, say the right thing, do the right thing.

00:20:36.820 There's a lot of players that just say and do the complete opposite of what their ideals

00:20:41.140 and morals are.

00:20:43.060 And I know that for a fact because I've been around many of them and that's our

00:20:46.360 fortune reality.

00:20:47.120 But I agree with you.

00:20:48.000 I love those heart on your sleeve.

00:20:50.180 Look, everyone can make a mistake.

00:20:52.240 Make the same mistake over and over.

00:20:53.680 It's hard to forgive you.

00:20:54.460 But everyone makes a mistake and we forgive and we move on, right?

00:20:57.660 That's your ability depending on what you've done, obviously.

00:21:00.440 But yeah, sports started to become very watered down and robotic.

00:21:05.960 We always laugh here in the Australian Rules Football League whenever they interview.

00:21:09.880 They do an interview after a game.

00:21:12.620 You know, how do you think things went to that?

00:21:14.260 Yeah, you know, the boys did it.

00:21:16.060 The boys did well.

00:21:16.900 We did it for the boys.

00:21:17.580 It was all about a team.

00:21:18.880 Everyone says the same thing.

00:21:19.900 You're just like, might as well just play the same sound clip after every game.

00:21:25.180 You know, whereas there's a few rare ones left that'll actually give some personality

00:21:29.820 and some cheek and some humor.

00:21:31.200 But then the media said, oh, what they said was sexist or what they said was this or what

00:21:35.360 they said was that or they shouldn't have said that or that's inappropriate.

00:21:37.860 And then athletes kind of don't want to do it.

00:21:39.660 So you can't blame them on the other hand, right?

00:21:41.780 Because they get reprimanded by their clubs and the media for having any ounce of personality.

00:21:48.580 Andrew, final basketball question.

00:21:50.420 And this is very much about your own game.

00:21:53.980 You were what I would say an old school center.

00:21:56.640 You play close to the basket, get the rebounds, get the tap-ins, you know, all of that put

00:22:01.800 backs, et cetera.

00:22:02.980 But the game has changed now.

00:22:04.120 You talk about the way Steph changed the game by taking the three-point shot, being able

00:22:08.080 to shoot from further away, being able to shoot threes off the dribble, stuff that people

00:22:12.240 didn't really used to do.

00:22:13.820 But the center game has changed now, too, where you've got, you know, these young kids coming

00:22:18.720 through who are taller than you and they can shoot the three.

00:22:22.100 They can shoot off the dribble.

00:22:23.480 They can, you know, it's incredible.

00:22:26.300 Are you excited by that?

00:22:28.380 Or are you one of those guys that's like, no, they're ruining the beautiful game of, you

00:22:32.320 know, back to the basket from six foot away?

00:22:35.900 Yeah, look, I think as an individual, you want to have as much of a skill set in different

00:22:41.420 facets of the game as you can because you become a more modern commodity.

00:22:44.920 If you're one-dimensional, you're easier to guard and you're just going to crack rotations

00:22:48.360 minute-wise as much.

00:22:49.320 I still think there's a place for big burly centers that rebound and block shots.

00:22:53.480 We saw that in the playoffs.

00:22:54.920 I mean, Jokic, he has the three ball, but he's not a three-hungry big man.

00:23:00.120 Like, he's not going to just sit out on a three and shoot threes all game.

00:23:02.700 That's the danger.

00:23:03.480 When you become a big, you should play a living in the paint.

00:23:06.520 But it's nice to go out every now and then.

00:23:08.140 But we're seeing the opposite now.

00:23:09.520 A lot of these taller guys with nice shooting touches, end up just living on the three-point

00:23:12.700 line.

00:23:12.940 I find the game a little bit boring in the NBA just because everyone runs the same stuff

00:23:19.700 and has the same scheme.

00:23:20.860 So it's basically a game of who could hoist up the most threes and whoever has the better

00:23:24.840 three-point shooting percentage wins.

00:23:26.600 Really, that's what the analytics say.

00:23:28.840 The more threes you hoist up, you've got a better chance of winning a game long-term or

00:23:33.320 game-by-game over the course of the season.

00:23:36.160 I find that boring.

00:23:37.180 I really liked, you know, Phil Jackson's triangle versus the Knicks' bruising physical

00:23:44.760 foul, you know, hard all the Pistons versus the Lakers.

00:23:47.460 I like different stuff.

00:23:48.880 I also hoist up in a week.

00:23:50.520 This team likes to run up and down.

00:23:52.280 This team likes to hold on grab.

00:23:53.540 We don't really see that as much anymore in the NBA game.

00:23:56.500 In the international game, we do.

00:23:57.840 I think our national league here in the NBL, which is FIBA, the FIBA league, the Euro

00:24:02.760 league, you still see that.

00:24:03.920 And I think that's what makes the battles fun because you've got a coach with one wacky

00:24:07.940 wild system and another one.

00:24:09.480 And you're like, okay, David, you know, David, you know, David, who's going to win?

00:24:12.740 Whereas the NBA, it's kind of pretty predictable for the most part.

00:24:17.020 And it's also just from a player perspective, I imagine it's much more enjoyable playing

00:24:21.900 in a team where the ball moves as opposed to just get it to a guy who can shoot the three

00:24:27.540 very well.

00:24:28.000 But anyway, moving on, I was sort of thinking, why has Andrew been so outspoken on a few recent

00:24:36.680 issues?

00:24:37.120 And then right at the beginning of the interview, you went, oh, son of Croatian parents who left

00:24:41.460 communist Yugoslavia.

00:24:43.260 Yeah.

00:24:43.640 Okay.

00:24:44.020 I see that now.

00:24:45.060 Is that basically what it's about?

00:24:47.080 You just see a lot of the stuff that we talk about on the show being from that background,

00:24:51.720 then you're just like, no, this is too far now.

00:24:53.980 Yeah, I think it's exactly that.

00:24:58.600 I listen.

00:24:59.180 I listen to my grandparents who were, you know, my grandmother passed away a few years

00:25:03.440 ago now and grandfather a few years before that.

00:25:06.380 And they migrated from that.

00:25:08.040 And I talk to them a lot at times about what they experienced.

00:25:11.500 They didn't even tell me 95% of what they experienced because they thought it would traumatize

00:25:15.920 me, you know.

00:25:16.420 And they had some stuff they had to deal with.

00:25:19.000 They had your neighbors taken by, they called them the Utbar police, which was the communist

00:25:24.800 police for as much as just singing a Croatian song, for as much as just, you know, engaging

00:25:30.440 in Croatian nationalism because you weren't allowed to say you were Croatian back then.

00:25:35.020 So I heard and experienced that pain from them throughout their childhood.

00:25:42.080 They were constantly trying to move and find employment.

00:25:44.660 They went to Germany.

00:25:45.780 They went here, they went there.

00:25:46.700 And they ended up settling in Australia and it was a godsend.

00:25:49.260 It's a beautiful place to live and it gave our family a new life.

00:25:52.320 But that is why we're, you know, our family in general and Croatians in general are stubborn 1.00

00:25:58.720 fighting type people.

00:26:00.600 But then they'll have a drink with you after you're both battered and bruised with that

00:26:03.780 kind of people, right?

00:26:04.700 You know, you throw some punches and then you'll have some beers.

00:26:07.420 That's kind of the mentality that I kind of have.

00:26:09.260 Yeah, I listened to, you know, what my grandmother spoke about.

00:26:15.000 And then she was alive during most of this COVID stuff, which we'll get into shortly, I'm

00:26:21.280 sure.

00:26:21.820 And she was, you know, she was having PTSD with some of this stuff.

00:26:24.680 And she's like, this is what I left, this kind of stuff.

00:26:29.280 You know, she was in a nursing home at the time.

00:26:31.820 You had to visit her through a bloody glass window.

00:26:34.480 You couldn't, it was like caught at the love window.

00:26:36.540 You couldn't go in the nursing home to touch a few of your loved ones.

00:26:40.080 Let's go through a bloody window, you know.

00:26:42.000 And so, yeah, talking to her about it, she had some real, real unique experiences linking

00:26:48.020 those, the COVID era and the era of her childhood.

00:26:52.360 Tell us more about that, Andrew, because I think most people in Western countries won't

00:26:56.780 have any idea what you're really talking about.

00:26:58.680 When you say she was having PTSD and saying she'd seen it before, what did she mean?

00:27:04.720 Well, to the extent of neighbors telling on neighbors, neighbors telling, you know, in

00:27:07.860 Australia, we had neighbors telling on neighbors that they put in, in Victoria, at least, they

00:27:11.400 put in a, you would do one hour of exercise a day outside your house, right?

00:27:15.800 And I had a friend in Victoria, his neighbor came out and was like, you've already done your

00:27:20.080 one hour exercise today, you can't go out again.

00:27:22.120 He's like, call the police, I don't care, I'm going to do another, because he had a dog,

00:27:26.480 walks a dog, and then he wanted to take his baby in the stroller.

00:27:29.100 But that kind of stuff, coming to visit your grandmother through a love window, you know,

00:27:34.640 not being able to eat together in the nursing home with everyone you've eaten with for

00:27:39.000 the last, you know, however long you've been there, can't eat together anymore, got to

00:27:42.380 eat by yourself in solitary confinement.

00:27:44.400 Hang on, I remember this.

00:27:46.420 You know, can't go out at certain times, can't go out there.

00:27:49.200 Oh, you can go out just to get food, rations, go get your rations, make sure you go back

00:27:53.260 home.

00:27:53.620 So you link all that, and people think you're crazy.

00:27:56.180 Like, I mean, you know, I was getting called conspiracy theorists and all that kind of 1.00

00:27:58.680 stuff, you're an idiot, you're a fan, and it's like, I'm speaking to someone who had 1.00

00:28:02.480 lived in that era that's saying it, not me. 1.00

00:28:04.800 I'm relaying the message, but people didn't want to hear that at the time.

00:28:07.520 But there's a lot of links, you can just go on and on and on and on, curfews and this

00:28:12.500 and that, and government's always right.

00:28:14.780 The government's got your best interest in, well, we care for your health, we have your

00:28:19.420 best interest in mind, we would never do you wrong, you know.

00:28:23.040 And she heard that whole spiel, albeit in a different language, and probably strategically

00:28:28.120 told her a different way, but it all ends up sounding the same when you've been through

00:28:31.340 it.

00:28:31.500 Look, Andrew, everybody here at Trigonometry is a massive fan of your glorious leader,

00:28:37.040 Dan Andrews.

00:28:38.380 Good guy and very moderate policy.

00:28:40.820 Right, before everyone gets triggered, he's being sarcastic.

00:28:43.320 Right.

00:28:44.200 Well, I looked at what was happening in Australia, particularly in Victoria.

00:28:51.340 I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

00:28:53.720 Why did you go so demented?

00:28:57.840 I have no idea.

00:28:58.900 I mean, look, there's numerous different theories.

00:29:03.020 One is, we've been having a real conflict in Australia, where our government's caused issues

00:29:09.900 for the people to be, you know, for the people to always be kind of wary, like, oh, trust the

00:29:15.240 government, but not all the way.

00:29:17.620 Yeah, people are like, yeah, the government's always got our best interest in mind, you know,

00:29:21.060 and there was no reason not to think that.

00:29:23.600 And we're a very kind of by-the-book nation, like, you know, the example I'd give you is

00:29:31.120 you could be in the middle of a desert and not see anyone in sight.

00:29:34.960 And if there's a pedestrian crossing, most people here will push the button and wait for

00:29:38.180 the light to go green.

00:29:39.980 Because there's a sign on the side of the road said you got to push and wait for it to

00:29:43.860 go green.

00:29:44.580 That's, we have arrows and things everywhere.

00:29:46.840 Don't park here.

00:29:47.580 You can't stand there.

00:29:48.420 You can't do this.

00:29:49.000 And people have been conditioned to that, you know, and another example I give is, you

00:29:54.480 know, our news has just bombarded us with this without us even knowing it.

00:29:58.220 And we grew up, you know, my father worked, you know, seven till five by 36.

00:30:05.260 And I remember my father would come home from work just before six, dinner would be on the

00:30:09.560 table.

00:30:10.000 We watched the six o'clock news in the background while we ate as a family generally.

00:30:14.440 And we'd ingest whatever was thrown at us, right?

00:30:16.860 And then you think now, and you look back, you're like, man, you could have told us anything.

00:30:21.540 You could have told us the sky is turning green.

00:30:23.580 And you said it.

00:30:24.520 It's true.

00:30:25.120 And the example I give is we had, you know, we had water restrictions in Victoria when I

00:30:30.860 was a young fella.

00:30:32.140 We had a bit of a drought.

00:30:33.340 The government put all these mandates on.

00:30:34.940 You can't wash your car in your driveway.

00:30:36.440 You can only water your garden at certain times and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:30:40.800 And I remember my mom, the neighbor was watering their garden outside of a lot of time

00:30:45.140 zone and my mom's like, what's the neighbor doing?

00:30:48.440 She shouldn't be, you know, watering your garden.

00:30:50.620 And I'm going to call, you know, and I'm just like, listen to yourself.

00:30:53.600 Like, no.

00:30:54.380 Like, why?

00:30:55.580 What does it matter?

00:30:56.060 Who cares?

00:30:56.700 They want to water their garden.

00:30:57.560 Let them water their garden. 0.64

00:30:58.380 But that's, I don't blame my mother for that.

00:31:00.720 It was ingrained.

00:31:01.620 It was ingrained from the TV.

00:31:03.180 Don't be a neighbor in if they're doing something that's illegal by the garden, you know?

00:31:07.920 Can't water your garden outside at between eight and 10 in the morning.

00:31:10.520 It's 10.30 or I'll call the council and get a fine.

00:31:14.060 And that's a long-winded reason why we were so extreme with COVID, you know?

00:31:20.360 And they scared so much people to the misery, you know, like, you got to catch it and you

00:31:25.740 got to do this and you got to do that.

00:31:27.000 And, you know, we had all kinds of crazy stuff going on here.

00:31:30.200 Like, you know, I couldn't, like, tell my neighbors, you know, there was a state that

00:31:36.880 was basically saying if you're out in public, even in your car by yourself, you got to

00:31:39.700 wear a mile.

00:31:40.340 Like, it was just, it was insane.

00:31:42.260 It was absolutely insane.

00:31:43.820 And I was thankfully in a place, I moved up to the place called the Gold Coast during

00:31:48.240 it, or I was up here for most of it.

00:31:51.260 And it's a coastal city, small kind of regional city.

00:31:54.540 And people here, there was at least a bit of a balance of, like, no, I'm not doing that.

00:31:59.780 Sorry, I'm not doing it.

00:32:00.740 Like, and, you know, the beaches were full and they had a few lockdowns and I'll put a

00:32:05.140 smile on my face.

00:32:05.920 People were like, I'm still going to the beach.

00:32:07.220 Like, there were surfers that were like, you want to arrest me?

00:32:09.840 Like, jump in the water and come and take me off my surfboard.

00:32:12.360 You know, like, but then I went to Melbourne a few times, Stuart, when there was like a

00:32:16.920 green pass where borders were open within our own country.

00:32:20.320 It was like every state then basically had borders that you couldn't get in and out of

00:32:25.080 during whatever color code they used.

00:32:27.620 I'm sure you used a similar color code.

00:32:29.080 Red was extreme.

00:32:29.980 Yellow was okay.

00:32:30.860 And green was open.

00:32:31.640 And, and I got stuck in Melbourne during one of the lockdowns and I couldn't believe

00:32:35.320 it.

00:32:35.460 It was, it was, it was insane, insanity.

00:32:38.680 Like I went to the grocery store to get, uh, I went and ordered some takeaway chicken

00:32:43.420 schnitzel and I wasn't living in Melbourne at times.

00:32:46.600 So I didn't have tomato sauce or ketchup in the fridge.

00:32:48.620 So I'm like, oh, I need some tomato sauce and ketchup.

00:32:50.280 So I thought I'd just stop at the grocery store on the way.

00:32:52.860 I didn't have a mask on me.

00:32:53.960 I literally walked in for like 30 seconds and got abused.

00:32:56.500 Like, dude, I'm a big dude, right?

00:32:58.500 Straight away.

00:32:59.640 Like actual abuse.

00:33:00.940 Like you're putting us all at risk.

00:33:02.000 And I was just like, wow.

00:33:04.700 This was like, this was like, you know, eight 30, nine o'clock at night, empty grocery store,

00:33:08.360 maybe 15 people in there max. 0.92

00:33:10.500 You can still kill people mate with that. 0.99

00:33:13.260 Yeah, I'm sure you can. 0.90

00:33:14.120 But I'm not a, I'm not a close people person.

00:33:17.420 I don't like people.

00:33:18.880 I kind of keep my distance.

00:33:20.320 Even without COVID, I was always a, screw the 1.5. 0.51

00:33:24.200 I'm a five meter guy.

00:33:25.120 Like I'm always kind of distance because I just like my personal space and whatever.

00:33:29.700 And just growing up where I grew up, I just like keeping my space.

00:33:32.720 I couldn't believe it.

00:33:33.460 And that was just a small, you know, little example of what I experienced.

00:33:36.940 I was just like people and talking to family and friends and how scared they were.

00:33:40.880 And oh my God, we can't do this.

00:33:42.220 We can't do that.

00:33:42.800 We're not planning a holiday because the government, this, we can't plan this.

00:33:45.920 We can't do this.

00:33:47.220 Close kids' playgrounds.

00:33:48.660 Outdoor, outdoor kids' playgrounds got closed.

00:33:51.060 And whenever I saw, they actually got the police type tape and taped up kids' playgrounds.

00:33:59.860 So when I went for a walk with my kids, I'll rip it all down.

00:34:03.320 I'm on record.

00:34:03.900 I don't care.

00:34:04.580 I was ripping down.

00:34:05.900 Whenever I saw those things, they were covering park benches at parks.

00:34:10.020 Park benches.

00:34:11.180 I sit here because of COVID.

00:34:12.220 I rip it off and throw it in the bin.

00:34:13.420 I'm like, are you kidding me?

00:34:15.360 And that was every day here.

00:34:17.660 Press conferences from the premier, Dan Andrews and a bunch of the premiers here were like,

00:34:23.660 everyone was tuning in to hear the numbers because they knew that would correlate to a lockdown.

00:34:27.900 Can we get to zero?

00:34:28.840 Please, sir, let's get to zero so I can go outside and see some sun for more than an hour.

00:34:34.020 And it was crazy.

00:34:35.900 It was a crazy time looking back.

00:34:37.500 Like, absolutely crazy time.

00:34:39.260 It was.

00:34:39.960 It was crazy here.

00:34:41.340 Perhaps not as much as it was certainly in Victoria.

00:34:43.560 You know, I get a very strong anti-authoritarian vibe from you, Andrew, which I really like.

00:34:48.440 I mean, I think we've got the same attitude here.

00:34:51.800 But I suppose what I'm hearing out of you more than that is, look, being anti-authoritarian

00:34:57.000 is one thing, but so much of what we were being told and what we were being told to do

00:35:02.260 just didn't make logical sense.

00:35:04.500 That's, I think, what you were talking about there.

00:35:07.340 I'm curious, you as a professional athlete, did you just think that the whole attitude we

00:35:11.980 have to this notion of health is completely wrong?

00:35:15.360 So it's like, we've got a disease that kills people who are obese.

00:35:20.160 So let's keep everybody in their homes.

00:35:22.280 Did that make sense to you?

00:35:24.480 No, no.

00:35:25.380 I mean, they're closed gyms.

00:35:27.320 You know, they're closed gyms.

00:35:29.140 You know, sunlight, vitamin D, could only go outside in Melbourne for one, you know, an

00:35:33.440 hour a day or go exercise one hour a day.

00:35:35.660 Like, when I was in Melbourne, I noticed a few things. 0.90

00:35:39.300 I'm kind of a stupidly observant person where I'm just about done stuff.

00:35:44.160 But so whenever they would announce a lockdown, so say it'd be tonight, you know, it's eight 0.99

00:35:48.580 o'clock here, they'd have their stupid little press conference. 0.99

00:35:51.160 We're locking down tomorrow at 9 a.m., blah, blah, blah, blah. 0.99

00:35:53.940 Whenever they announced a lockdown, I noticed I'd go out to the grocery store to get food

00:35:57.800 or whatever.

00:35:58.940 Do you know what was the most busiest thing when they announced a lockdown?

00:36:04.300 Alcohol?

00:36:05.660 That's one, yes.

00:36:07.100 But no, fast food drive-thrus.

00:36:09.460 Right.

00:36:09.720 So right around the corner from where we were staying in Melbourne, there's a KFC.

00:36:14.540 And generally, this KFC may be as three to four cars in the drive-thru at any given time.

00:36:21.440 Even in peak hours, maybe it's eight or ten.

00:36:23.340 Like, it's not crazy.

00:36:24.800 Whenever there was a lockdown announced, this drive-thru was to the highway.

00:36:29.440 It was to the highway.

00:36:30.520 Like, you couldn't get in there.

00:36:31.500 You're waiting.

00:36:32.080 Wow, wait.

00:36:33.000 Get a minute for food.

00:36:33.640 And I started to notice this.

00:36:34.860 And I'm just like, that can't be good for your health.

00:36:37.900 Like, when people are stressed, they're probably like, I'm not going to cook.

00:36:39.980 I don't want to go to a grocery store because either I'm scared there's people there.

00:36:43.740 I don't have to get my car in a drive-thru.

00:36:45.200 So I'm just going to feed my family and two kids a bucket of chicken and fries.

00:36:50.460 Like, hello.

00:36:52.160 You know, so that's what I noticed.

00:36:54.760 But there was just no incentive for anything health-related.

00:36:58.220 It was the only thing that was going to be healthy for you was to get a needle.

00:37:01.920 That was it.

00:37:02.540 Get the needle and you'll be healthy and you'll be fine.

00:37:04.800 Nothing about anything else.

00:37:05.900 And then the whole conversation around, so you're telling me if I'm severely out of shape, I drink alcohol every day, I eat my diets, fast food, I'm X amount of pounds or kilos overweight.

00:37:17.820 You're telling me the vaccine is going to save my life.

00:37:21.140 But it's a guy or a girl that's severely in shape, eats right.

00:37:25.680 They're not, they're going to be, they have to get the vaccine to live.

00:37:29.540 Like, I just, it didn't make sense to me.

00:37:30.880 I'm like, hang on a second.

00:37:31.700 Like, this doesn't make sense to me.

00:37:32.760 So I kind of spoke out about it a little bit and asked some questions and then bang, you know, media was all over me with anti-vax.

00:37:40.920 I never once stated anything against the vax.

00:37:43.400 My whole thing was like, can we ask questions? 0.97

00:37:46.360 I severely disagree with the green ass about being able to operate in everyday life by showing your papers everywhere you have to go. 0.99

00:37:54.540 Hey, look, I had the needle. 0.99

00:37:56.500 Can I have my coffee now?

00:37:59.040 Strongly disagree with that.

00:38:00.160 So then obviously you got labeled as anti-vax and I'm just like, okay, if that's what you want to label me, I'm not going to, I'm not going to push back.

00:38:05.840 And the fact that I didn't push back against the labels, because I was like, if you're going to label me, you've lost the argument.

00:38:10.700 That really bothers some people and still bothers them to this day.

00:38:13.360 Even with everything we know today, there's people that still will not admit that they were wrong.

00:38:18.480 The Bam Drews was on certain things.

00:38:20.920 You made, before we started this interview, you made a very interesting observation where obviously you lived in California.

00:38:28.820 California and you were comparing California to Melbourne and you were saying about, you know, the hyper progressives who their attitude is very similar in Melbourne as it is in California.

00:38:46.600 And that led to certain things happening.

00:38:49.080 Let's talk about that.

00:38:50.540 What did you notice?

00:38:51.540 I just noticed, I lived in both places.

00:38:54.380 I've said many times, Victoria is the California of Australia without the sun.

00:38:59.200 Yeah, Victoria is the most part without the sun.

00:39:01.760 That's the only difference.

00:39:02.560 The policies are very similar, very socialistic, very, you know, the greater good and, you know, Victoria is a very pro rainbow and trans ideology and all that kind of stuff.

00:39:14.460 Very, very big in Victoria.

00:39:15.600 Very, very big, and I don't know if it's because the further north you go in Australia, it gets sunnier, people are outdoors more, streaming this and that.

00:39:23.860 Melbourne's a bit more of a colder city, so you're indoors more, you're on Netflix, the TV, the internet.

00:39:29.220 Don't know if it's that, but it's very, very similar to California in that aspect.

00:39:33.700 And I just started to notice it.

00:39:34.680 I've been in both places and it was very, very similar to me.

00:39:37.620 So, yeah, just a head scratcher.

00:39:40.840 I mean, I was, I'm born, bred in Melbourne, Victoria, was going to retire there and build a beautiful home and lay my roots there and I ended up getting out because of it.

00:39:50.020 I just didn't want to deal with that.

00:39:51.680 Even COVID aside, I started to notice these things that it was just very, very, there's a group of, you know, progressive fringe there that dictate what the state does really through the government.

00:40:02.700 And I just wasn't a fan of it, didn't want to raise my kids in that environment.

00:40:06.880 And Andrew, you've obviously, you are someone who's retired now, but you've been talking about cultural and political issues.

00:40:15.520 You've been expressing your opinion and I love to see it.

00:40:17.940 I think it's really important for people like you to speak up and say what you think and take the flag that you've had to take.

00:40:24.080 But I'm curious about the principle of it.

00:40:26.200 You're clearly a very, very smart guy.

00:40:27.920 And there is a debate going on, particularly with regards to the NBA, where on the one hand, someone like Enes Kanter, he expresses his political opinions and his freedom.

00:40:37.120 We've had him on the show about what's happening to the Uyghurs in China and speaking up against President Erdogan, etc.

00:40:44.100 And he was essentially forced out of the NBA as a result.

00:40:47.900 And people say, you know, quite reasonably, some people will say, well, look, let's keep politics out of sport.

00:40:52.220 Except when BLM happens, then it's obviously a massive wave that goes through the NBA.

00:40:57.920 And it just seems like there's a lack of consistency.

00:41:01.120 What do you make?

00:41:01.880 Do you think athletes like yourself while you're playing should be getting involved in these cultural and political discussions?

00:41:08.780 I mean, Kyrie Irving, another one of your colleagues, he got into trouble because he wasn't vaccinated and he had his views on that.

00:41:16.940 Like, should athletes get involved in these discussions or should they just play the game?

00:41:22.220 Here's where I stand on it.

00:41:23.320 I stand on with sport.

00:41:25.780 If you're in the game and you're coming off the field or the court and you're getting interviewed, I think keep it a sport.

00:41:32.300 So, how do you think you played?

00:41:34.580 I'm not going to go legal rant after I'm asked that question.

00:41:38.480 In your personal time, in your personal forums, by all means, go for your life.

00:41:42.540 That's for you to do whatever you want, whatever you're passionate about.

00:41:45.220 But I think in that two hours, we all as a society are so ingrained in politics and what's going on here, your local, your state, your federal world politics, Russia, Ukraine.

00:41:55.860 We're all so ingrained in every single moment of the day, social media.

00:41:58.880 I think the beauty of sport has always been it's a two to three hour release to get away from that.

00:42:04.480 Now we're bombarded in every commercial break and jerseys and, you know, people not standing for the anthem and all that kind of stuff.

00:42:11.180 I think it's too much.

00:42:12.060 That's my opinion on it.

00:42:13.040 But I think, you know, if Kyrie or even Angela Bogan wants to be political, once you're outside of that little bubble and you want to go on your social forums and you want to do, you know, podcasts like this, by all means, I'm all for it.

00:42:25.220 But the biggest thing with the NBA and the NFL and sporting leagues all around the world is if it's the right kind of politics, we'll help you promote it.

00:42:33.840 So, Ray, that's a release and, you know, if it's the LM or if it's this or if it's that, all for it.

00:42:39.580 But if there's someone that's got a different view and has legitimate reasons for it, you know, Ennis Tanner, I knew as soon as he wore those shoes, he was in some trouble.

00:42:50.000 You know, he was obviously getting older.

00:42:53.480 Is he a superstar player?

00:42:54.800 No.

00:42:55.500 But should he still be a vet min guy for another three or four years?

00:42:58.240 Of course he should.

00:42:59.020 But the team looks at it like, hey, this is going to be a guy who's paid him two to three, four or five million a year and he's probably going to be a bit of a distraction.

00:43:05.900 We'll just move on, right?

00:43:08.000 That's the way a team would look at it.

00:43:10.320 Whether the NBA tapped those teams on the shoulders, probably so, who knows?

00:43:14.420 But it's just, it just, it has always bothered me that it was, you know, if you're a mainstream, you know, agenda that's being pushed, yes, we'll hold you up.

00:43:23.920 But as soon as you go against that, ooh, you must be some sort of S or East or whatever it is, right? 0.91

00:43:29.120 And that really bothered me.

00:43:30.940 And on top of that, just to finish that, on top of that, I know, like, this isn't something I'm guessing. 0.99

00:43:38.200 There's a lot of players in the NBA that don't believe the shit they're promoting, period. 0.98

00:43:42.240 And I've been with them locker to locker, played with them, against them, with them, whatever. 0.99

00:43:48.160 I know what they say in the locker room is a 180 to what they're saying publicly.

00:43:54.060 Like, I had teammates that were super religious, really conservative Christian religious, right?

00:43:59.080 And they're out there, you know, saying some things that are completely opposite to what they are in the locker room with their families.

00:44:06.640 Do you blame them?

00:44:08.440 Who knows?

00:44:09.160 I mean, there's money to be made.

00:44:10.700 They're trying to feed their family as that all goes.

00:44:13.960 But I draw the line on, you know, when you're preaching to the masses, you better be living the life that you're preaching.

00:44:20.060 And I know for a lot of guys, that's not the case.

00:44:24.460 It's really interesting you make that point because I know it's a different sport.

00:44:28.740 But you're an Aussie, so you'll know this guy.

00:44:30.560 It's the case of Israel Folau, who is a devout Christian.

00:44:34.740 And he came out and was honest about what devout Christians think about gay people.

00:44:41.060 And that wasn't accepted.

00:44:44.900 Yeah, you've got to go play overseas in Vegas.

00:44:48.060 And yes, if we're going to allow freedom of speech and freedom to be whoever you are, well, if that's his point of view, look, as long as he's not condoning violence or saying that, you know, they should be shuddered or stoned or shunned from society, you know, that's not right at all.

00:45:05.080 And that's where we draw the line.

00:45:07.040 But it wasn't that.

00:45:07.660 My beliefs are, America's for a man and a woman, you have to respect those beliefs.

00:45:12.100 You know, they're his beliefs and he has a right to those beliefs.

00:45:15.100 You don't have to disagree or disagree with him.

00:45:17.560 But I, you know, I'm all for having different points of view.

00:45:21.040 There's many people that I greatly respect that I disagree with.

00:45:24.280 But that's fine.

00:45:25.020 That's what you're supposed to, when you become a teen, a child to a teen, to an adult, that's supposed to be an attribute that you have as an adult.

00:45:33.380 Someone disagreed with me.

00:45:35.580 That's fine.

00:45:36.660 Take a deep breath.

00:45:38.100 We have a discussion about it.

00:45:39.380 And you might learn something new and vice versa, but you can, it's okay to disagree.

00:45:43.640 Today's society, it's not.

00:45:45.120 Especially when it comes to public mantra and stuff that the mainstream is pushing, you can't disagree with that.

00:45:51.880 And I've been a big part of that here in Australia, even with the trans ideology.

00:45:55.080 And there's a big issue here in Australia with men infiltrating women's sport and women's spaces.

00:46:00.660 And I'll be the advocate for that, for young girls in sport.

00:46:02.980 Because I have people reaching out to me, like, that are like, I don't have a voice.

00:46:07.080 I'm scared to say anything.

00:46:08.300 But, you know, my daughter just got knocked out by a guy in the under-16s rugby who's playing in the women's league.

00:46:13.740 What can I do about it?

00:46:14.600 I'm trying to help these people.

00:46:15.760 And I feel really bad.

00:46:17.160 And people are thinking, I'm doing this to some side hustle or gain or whatever.

00:46:23.480 Where it's like, well, let me give those people some news.

00:46:26.260 I'll lose out on marketing just because of this.

00:46:28.200 I'll lose out on making a bit more cash on marketing and promos and speaking gigs.

00:46:33.460 People are like, we just don't touch it just in case someone protests us or gets mad at us or whatever. 0.91

00:46:38.500 So I'm going to continue to speak out on stuff that's just utterly ridiculous.

00:46:43.240 And would you have been as vocal, Andrew, if you were still in the NBA?

00:46:47.060 Or were you more kind of, you know, career focused at that point where you were like,

00:46:51.680 I just need to do and I need to be on the court and everything else is secondary to that?

00:46:58.980 That's a great question.

00:47:00.060 I can't be a hypocrite and say that if I was in the midst of my career and I had that decision to make,

00:47:05.060 I don't know what decision I would have made.

00:47:06.620 I'll definitely not going to tell you that, yeah, I would have been all in.

00:47:09.780 Screw the system or establishment. 0.98

00:47:11.600 I can't be a hypocrite and say that. 0.88

00:47:12.920 But early on in my career, I didn't follow politics at all.

00:47:17.680 I didn't follow social issues till probably year nine or 10.

00:47:20.980 So I had no idea what was going on in the world.

00:47:22.420 And that was, I wish I could go back to that time where I was that ignorant in the world. 0.77

00:47:28.640 Yeah.

00:47:29.820 It felt like a bit, I envy those people, by the way.

00:47:32.160 We all.

00:47:32.480 You know, you bring up issues that are like pretty, pretty big issues socially.

00:47:37.360 You bring it up to someone and they have no idea.

00:47:38.940 I envy those people now.

00:47:39.880 I really envy those people, but I don't know.

00:47:43.380 It's a very good question.

00:47:44.900 I'm in a position where I can do it now because I don't need anything or need or want anything from anyone.

00:47:51.800 I could still be silent and get my net worth to 2, 3x by being silent and just playing the game.

00:47:56.520 But I don't, I've got enough right now, right?

00:47:58.340 So in the midst of my career, it'd be a tough decision.

00:48:02.200 It'd be a tough decision either way.

00:48:03.340 But I was outspoken throughout my latest stage of my career,

00:48:06.620 even when I was still making big money on certain issues.

00:48:09.960 And you can look at, people can look it up online on different things and right, wrong sometimes, whatever.

00:48:15.440 But I was outspoken against the grain probably, probably about 2, 3x into my career,

00:48:20.020 especially while social media started getting a bit more out there.

00:48:22.180 I could actually get my views out there on certain things.

00:48:24.120 And that wasn't as well appreciated by some and it was appreciated by others.

00:48:29.080 And that's just kind of the way things go.

00:48:31.780 Well, Andrew, and that's really the thing, isn't it?

00:48:33.360 Because I think we were similar age.

00:48:35.080 You're a couple of years younger than us.

00:48:36.480 But, you know, we all grew up in a world where it was like, you're allowed your opinion.

00:48:41.600 I'm allowed my opinion. 0.99

00:48:42.820 You can think I'm a dick. 1.00

00:48:44.140 I can think you're a dick for having that particular opinion. 1.00

00:48:46.760 We can still be mates. 0.99

00:48:47.860 We can still go and have a drink together.

00:48:50.100 We can agree to disagree.

00:48:51.720 But weaving the sort of anti-authoritarian theme into this as well,

00:48:56.340 it sort of feels like almost everywhere you go now,

00:48:59.940 you have to, you are constantly forced to engage with political ideology of some form.

00:49:06.280 So you mentioned in the NBA, they will enforce a certain worldview,

00:49:10.560 a certain set of principles.

00:49:12.680 You watch a movie, it's infused with all of this stuff.

00:49:16.360 You're being lectured to constantly.

00:49:18.120 And if you don't accept the lecture, then you are the toxic one.

00:49:22.800 You are the problematic one.

00:49:24.140 You are the conspiracy theorist.

00:49:25.760 You are the anti-vaxxer, whatever it is.

00:49:27.980 It just sort of feels like from every angle now, the freedom of the individual to be who they are,

00:49:34.500 even if other people don't like it, is just getting constantly constrained.

00:49:39.340 And we're less free to be ourselves.

00:49:41.340 Would you agree with that?

00:49:42.920 There's no doubt.

00:49:43.600 And that's what I'm trying to instill in my children.

00:49:45.300 I've got two children, five or six, and I'm just trying to instill in them.

00:49:48.120 Like, if you want to go that way and the whole group's gone that way,

00:49:51.860 but you're passionate about going that way or you like that route, go that route.

00:49:55.680 You know what I mean?

00:49:56.180 You don't have to follow.

00:49:57.300 I'm big on not following the crowd, especially at a young age.

00:50:00.140 You know, kids are generally what I fit in and all that.

00:50:02.420 I think I've got one of them going the right way and kind of like you can float off a butterfly if he has to it.

00:50:07.220 But it's tough.

00:50:09.300 I mean, going back to your other point about, you know, following the doctrine.

00:50:13.100 I mean, I was with a team.

00:50:15.020 I got pulled through a critical race theory seminar while I was an NBA player.

00:50:19.420 Wow. 1.00

00:50:20.380 Shit. 1.00

00:50:21.200 Really? 1.00

00:50:22.520 I was that guy asking questions during it, which was not very well received.

00:50:26.360 You know, locker room with NBA players, I can tell you that.

00:50:29.640 Imagine the color of your skin didn't help, mate. 1.00

00:50:31.820 I was like, I'm not taking this shit. 1.00

00:50:36.260 You're not telling me I'm racist just because I was born. 1.00

00:50:39.220 And not only that, it was like, you don't even know my story.

00:50:43.680 I'm an immigrant that came from a migrant family to Australia that faced rape.

00:50:47.580 My father faced heavy racism.

00:50:49.020 I got expelled from his high school for punching out his PD teacher and his principal for calling him racist epithets in Australian school as a 15-year-old.

00:50:57.600 He was out as a 16-year-old working in factories.

00:50:59.840 I dealt, like, our family dealt with it, right?

00:51:03.280 So you're not going to sit there and tell me that I'm racist because of my skin color.

00:51:05.980 So I was pushing back on all that stuff and people were looking at me like I'm crazy and it kind of ended all funny.

00:51:10.340 I couldn't believe it.

00:51:12.080 This was before critical race theory kind of became a thing.

00:51:16.160 This was in 16.

00:51:17.300 So it kind of really started rearing about 17.

00:51:19.640 Wow.

00:51:20.080 That's early, man.

00:51:21.500 Yeah.

00:51:21.820 Yeah, exactly.

00:51:22.540 And I was like, nah, I'm not.

00:51:23.680 I'm not.

00:51:24.220 No, I'm not.

00:51:24.760 I'm not.

00:51:25.400 I disagree with this.

00:51:26.660 The whole video they played, trying to explain all that, you know, you can be racist without even knowing it.

00:51:33.460 Like, I was like, nah, nah, I'm not buying it.

00:51:36.000 Like, I think if you're a good person, if you're good to me, I don't care what you look like, who you are, what sexuality you are.

00:51:42.040 If you're nice, I'm nice.

00:51:43.240 You say good morning to me, I say good morning, man.

00:51:44.960 That's how I treat people.

00:51:46.160 I'm not going to ask you.

00:51:47.440 I'm not going to say good morning to you.

00:51:48.740 Tell me your sexuality first or your race or this or that, right? 1.00

00:51:51.280 And, yeah, I pushed back on that and I still remember it to this day.

00:51:54.120 It was a very interesting time.

00:51:56.840 Well, I was going to ask you about that, Andrew, because, you know, this isn't a stereotype.

00:52:01.280 It's a factual observation.

00:52:02.900 The NBA is full of black dudes, right? 0.99

00:52:04.700 I think we can say that.

00:52:06.140 So, how did that go down with your teammates and sort of did you start to get a bit of a bad rep as a result?

00:52:13.660 Because you had a successful career after 2016.

00:52:16.020 You won your championship 2019, I think.

00:52:17.740 And, yeah, I mean, there's some people that thought I was racist or I was this or I was that.

00:52:24.740 I got to a point in my career where I didn't care. 0.99

00:52:26.780 If you're going to label me something without knowing me or talking to me, you're the ignorant. 0.96

00:52:31.400 All my best friends still to this day and teammates are people from not only other countries but African-Americans. 0.97

00:52:40.620 I still talk to you on a regular basis.

00:52:42.480 And I've had some of my deepest conversations about these issues with Harrison Barnes.

00:52:46.840 So, Harrison Barnes, he made a lot of state warriors.

00:52:49.640 And we could actually have these conversations about different things.

00:52:53.700 And I learned some things from him.

00:52:54.980 You know, I learned, like, we had a conversation about, hey, like, Harrison, like, you know, I faced some racism growing up as well.

00:53:00.720 I'm sure that he laid, hey, but the difference is you kind of have to talk until they know you're from somewhere else.

00:53:07.860 Mine's just visual.

00:53:08.740 And I was like, wow, that's actually a pretty lightning point.

00:53:11.240 You don't have to say a word and people can be racist too.

00:53:13.320 So that, you know, I'm learning, right?

00:53:15.220 So we had those conversations and that's what we should be, you know, that's what society should be about, right?

00:53:20.800 We had great conversations. 0.96

00:53:22.300 And, yeah, but, I mean, there's obviously people that are ignorant. 0.84

00:53:25.120 And, you know, if you're disagreeing with, like, once again, the state-sponsored mantra or whatever's in an NBA locker room,

00:53:32.080 I was always, for the most part, I'd go with logic, common sense.

00:53:36.080 And I don't agree with that.

00:53:37.320 It's how the guys do.

00:53:38.400 That's okay.

00:53:38.800 You know, I had a coach that was a little bit religious, the Golden State Warriors.

00:53:43.500 He was a pastor at a church in L.A.

00:53:47.340 And whenever we went to L.A., 90-some percent of the team would go to his church.

00:53:51.700 I was a guy that didn't because I was like, I'm not going to your church just because I kind of have to.

00:53:58.140 If I want to go, I'll go.

00:53:59.660 But I'm not going to go because I feel guilty about playing time or fitting into the group.

00:54:03.140 I'm not going to go.

00:54:03.660 I was one of those guys that went my own way and did my own teeth.

00:54:07.580 Andrew, very quickly moving on, I want to talk to you about mindset because to achieve that everything that you've achieved is remarkable.

00:54:18.980 What made you successful when there are other people who were more physically talented than you, more gifted than you?

00:54:26.760 What separated you from peers who didn't get as far as you did?

00:54:33.660 I think that a love for what you're doing is very important.

00:54:37.520 I think if you truly love what you're doing, I see kids pushing to sports because their parents want them to do it or pushing to things because don't do that job because it's going to make you money.

00:54:47.440 But they don't have a love for it.

00:54:49.160 It's just different.

00:54:50.180 It's much more clunky and hard.

00:54:52.100 So I think love is the first thing.

00:54:53.940 I think just being routine-based.

00:54:56.040 I'm very routine.

00:54:57.120 I'm OCD on things.

00:54:58.360 I like my organization sit out like this. 0.96

00:55:00.700 I have cleaners come clean the house and I'll move shit and I'm losing my mind. 0.98

00:55:04.700 Hang on a second. 0.99

00:55:05.580 I know this because I'm one of those guys.

00:55:07.660 Not OCD where it has to be perfect, but I've got an order about things in my brain.

00:55:12.800 So I think being organized and having a routine is really important.

00:55:16.440 I had that as a young fella.

00:55:18.840 Before school, I train, go to school.

00:55:21.420 After school, I train, come back at home, shoot in the backyard.

00:55:24.600 I just have a routine that I was just getting used to.

00:55:27.740 So once you become professional, it's kind of easy.

00:55:30.200 So they're probably the two biggest things.

00:55:31.380 You need a lot of routine.

00:55:32.540 You've got to put the work in.

00:55:33.660 Everyone says, oh, it's all about hard work.

00:55:35.400 But it really is.

00:55:37.440 10,000 hours, I think, to master a craft.

00:55:39.640 Is that it?

00:55:40.520 Pretty sure that's the number.

00:55:42.360 It's 10,000 hours to master a craft of whatever you're doing.

00:55:47.400 So if you're a young kid and you're 14, do the math.

00:55:50.940 How much are you spending a day?

00:55:52.140 Time's out by how many days in the year.

00:55:54.040 You want to become a professional, you've got to be hitting that 10,000 mark closer to your 20s, right?

00:55:58.820 So that's what it's all about.

00:56:00.960 And I think put time.

00:56:03.320 And also, the other thing in our society, I think, that is taboo is failure.

00:56:08.500 I think failure is a huge, huge key ingredient to success.

00:56:12.780 Most people don't know exactly your previous business journeys or how you came to what you're doing today.

00:56:18.080 But, like, you have to fail.

00:56:20.440 Fail is the most honest, brutal way to figure out what you've done wrong.

00:56:25.460 You know, your friends and family aren't going to tell you.

00:56:27.240 Like, so if you do something wrong, then they're going to tell you a politically correct way or they're scared to hurt your feelings.

00:56:32.060 When you fail and business goes under, you don't make a team, you get cut from a team, you fail a diploma, that's it.

00:56:38.160 It's brutal.

00:56:38.740 Like, there's no be-all and end-all.

00:56:40.860 The smart people won't pout about that for three years and feel sorry for themselves and become a victim.

00:56:45.800 And have a week where you might have a few too many drinks and you're mad at the world and get out a whiteboard and be like,

00:56:52.340 okay, this is what I did and what do I need to do better to fix that?

00:56:55.360 And all the good, a lot of the successful people in life have failed, right?

00:56:58.660 I think we should really embrace fail.

00:57:01.060 Now, there's a difference.

00:57:02.160 If you're failing, doing it again, failing, doing it again, there's an issue there.

00:57:06.460 Like, you're doing the same thing over and over and get the same result.

00:57:09.120 There's obviously a big underlying issue.

00:57:10.860 But I think on the general consensus, like, that failure is taboo.

00:57:14.580 I think we need to embrace that a little bit more just because it's a really, really brutal learning curve for people.

00:57:20.220 And I think that's so important and it's such an important lesson for kids and why sport is so important for kids.

00:57:26.400 Because it's a safe place for them to fail.

00:57:28.940 You know, you play your team, you do your best, you lose.

00:57:31.780 All right, well, what do I learn from this?

00:57:33.200 How can I improve next time?

00:57:36.220 Yeah, and I'm going through it with my son.

00:57:37.900 He's playing soccer at the moment.

00:57:39.140 And I'm not worried about goals scored.

00:57:42.600 All I care about is effort.

00:57:44.100 And, you know, kids look at goals scored.

00:57:45.520 If they've played well, they're going to release.

00:57:47.240 I've played well, I've scored goals, right?

00:57:48.780 So he's playing soccer and he's a bigger kid.

00:57:50.880 So it took him a while to catch up to the speed and the footwork of the smaller, more stockier kids, which is great.

00:57:57.220 But I put him in that for that very reason.

00:57:59.920 And, you know, there's a few games where he wasn't getting the ball passed to him.

00:58:03.180 You know, kids are a little selfish at that age, which is normal.

00:58:05.280 Well, they lose and, you know, he's tearing up.

00:58:08.100 And one game, he basically, you know, somewhat quit.

00:58:10.460 You know, he struggled for the last 15 minutes of the game and didn't want to be out there.

00:58:14.500 And I didn't let him play the next weekend, just let him train.

00:58:19.120 I didn't let him play in a big carnival that he was looking forward to.

00:58:21.700 Unfortunately, it was the hardest thing I did as a parent.

00:58:23.460 I said, you're not playing in the carnival.

00:58:25.280 You need to fix this.

00:58:26.040 And then we came back to training and doing a one-on-one drill and he kicked the goal and it hit the training drill.

00:58:33.960 It hit the left post and the right post.

00:58:37.500 The VAR would have let it be a goal, but the coach was like, no goal.

00:58:42.040 And I could see him, you know, getting teary-eyed and about to shut down.

00:58:47.100 And I just yelled, you're up.

00:58:48.540 And to be it up, he came out of the drill.

00:58:49.980 And then by the time he got to the front of the line again, he calmed himself.

00:58:55.120 And that was the proudest thing I've ever done.

00:58:57.060 I didn't care about the goal.

00:58:58.040 I didn't care about everything else.

00:58:59.240 He self-regulated himself as a six-year-old, got back in the drill and actually scored a goal.

00:59:03.760 So, like, I was like, man, like, that's, that is, I was so happy with that more than anything else because I think it's very important.

00:59:10.980 And he's used that failure, you know, the carnival and all that kind of stuff and figured out, okay, I've had a bad minute.

00:59:17.480 I'm not going to let this turn into a bad five minutes, into a bad day, into two weeks, three weeks, four weeks.

00:59:22.620 So, I'm going to constantly battle with that with my kids.

00:59:24.600 And I think it's a very important lesson.

00:59:26.340 They have to learn, no, they have to learn failure.

00:59:28.980 They have to learn missing.

00:59:29.980 They have to learn being sucked out.

00:59:31.560 They have to learn a coach not liking them.

00:59:33.300 They have to learn how a teacher doesn't like them sometimes.

00:59:35.420 That's life.

00:59:35.960 You're going to, you have to deal with that.

00:59:37.340 So, if you can get that to them in an early age, Data White, I don't know if you saw his interview from a little while ago.

00:59:43.680 He said the kids that are brought up in that sense to be a little bit tougher and gritty, they're going to absolutely own the next generation once they're adults because there's going to be very many of those kids.

00:59:54.440 Well, it's funny you say that because you will know who it was, but I remember reading about an NBA coach who said you never draft a player from a house with a two-car garage.

01:00:03.520 And that's sort of like that grit and determination and drive and the willingness to keep going even though things are difficult.

01:00:11.960 I think that's really what separates, I'm sure in sport, but also in life generally, it separates people who make it from people who don't because that's what it takes.

01:00:21.960 Andrew, it's been such a great interview.

01:00:23.600 It's so good to have you.

01:00:24.580 You're such a talented guy.

01:00:26.420 I'm really looking forward to seeing what other stuff you're going to do with your life.

01:00:29.680 You must have other projects you're working on now and things that you're looking to build.

01:00:35.320 Yeah, I play a lot of poker.

01:00:37.220 I'm a big poker player, so I spend a lot of time playing poker.

01:00:41.200 I really enjoy it, just a lot of the mental battle of it, and it's a game that I get lost in with any of the Oscar in my life.

01:00:48.000 Even when I was playing basketball, you get to a poker table and you forget about it, so it's a perfect hobby for me.

01:00:54.220 So I do a lot of that.

01:00:54.920 I've got my own podcast called Rogue Vogue.

01:00:57.340 We're in the process of actually ramping it up and going to video, just finished the studio, so getting that all cabled up, similar to what you boys out there, so hopefully we can outdo you a little bit.

01:01:06.380 So doing that, I'm also invested in a pro basketball team here in Australia, the Sydney Kings, two-time champions right now, going for a street beat this coming season, so a minority owner in that club.

01:01:19.080 And then I dabble in a bunch of startups, kind of venture capitalist type stuff, so I dabble in all walks of life.

01:01:26.320 I'm in health tech, healthcare, fintech, all kinds of stuff, and I kind of enjoy just being able to take some educator gambles on different things.

01:01:35.020 And one just last week, thankfully, so I did a nice return on one, so I'm pretty pumped about that, that a friend of mine, Phil Hellmuth, actually, poker pro, called me into with himself.

01:01:44.900 So doing a bit of that stuff and just doing a little bit of everything.

01:01:48.540 Strategically, didn't want to have a 9-to-5 or have something that takes my day-to-day grind because I want to – look, I've dropped my kids off to school.

01:01:56.260 My wife and I alternate. 0.98

01:01:57.640 I pick them up from school.

01:01:58.880 I drive them to sport.

01:02:00.040 I try to be around as much as I can because, you know, my parents didn't have that opportunity to be able to do that because they were working so much, so I want to make sure I'm there as much as I can.

01:02:08.060 And I have that luxury to be able to do that and still be able to, you know, live a very comfortable life financially.

01:02:14.280 Well, that's awesome, man.

01:02:15.420 I'm really excited for you, and we'd love to have you back on the show at some point.

01:02:19.400 We're going to head over to Locals for questions from our supporters.

01:02:22.760 Before we do, we always wrap up with the same question, as you know, which is, what's the one thing we're not talking about that we really should be as a society?

01:02:31.860 The one thing we're not talking about is that we're not talking.

01:02:36.080 I think having open, honest conversations and views that are not aligned.

01:02:42.880 I would love – you know, I've reached out to people from my podcast that have different views to me, that are anti-views of mine, and I always get a rejection for the most part.

01:02:50.200 It's funny, it's usually one side of politics that won't come on and talk to me, but that's what we need to do.

01:02:55.580 We need to be able to go back to having a conversation without getting our knickers in a twist and getting all offended and triggered and all that kind of stuff.

01:03:04.060 So I think – and that goes for both sides, not just left or right or – it's all walks of life.

01:03:08.840 You know, I think having conversations and learning from each other, that's how human beings have evolved for however long you want to think of being alive.

01:03:16.280 So let's get back to that.

01:03:18.880 Agreed.

01:03:19.500 And head on over to Locals, guys, where we continue the conversation.

01:03:23.980 What's the one thing you think about the NBA or playing in an NBA that most people don't know but is actually really interesting?

TRIGGERnometry - September 10, 2023

NBA Champion： Players Hide Their True Feelings About Social Justice - Andrew Bogut

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