Neal Brennan - Lapsed Liberal
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 7 minutes
Words per minute
168.0711
Harmful content
Misogyny
5
sentences flagged
Toxicity
47
sentences flagged
Hate speech
22
sentences flagged
Summary
This week, we're joined by comedian and writer Neil Gaffigan to discuss his new show 'The Disaffected Liberal' and why he's a 'disaffected liberal'. We also discuss why he doesn't have a lot of friends on the left, and why it's a good thing.
Transcript
00:00:00.640
You're a disaffected liberal, is that fair to say?
00:00:10.320
We both look liberal and we both look visibly disaffected.
00:00:16.480
There are decisions that I think every human being makes or comes to
00:00:22.240
that are in my internal supreme court a five to four decision.
00:00:27.280
I think that's the thing that people won't acknowledge.
00:00:36.800
And for us to keep doing the incredible work that you all love, we need your support.
00:00:42.720
That's the only way we're going to stay independent and create content
00:00:48.480
There is no other podcast where you'll hear interviews with Nigel Farage one week
00:00:53.120
and the next week you've got Aaron Bastani, the founder of left-wing
00:01:01.280
You know they've been caught lying again and again.
00:01:06.720
The only way to change that is to make a stand and support independent content creators
00:01:12.640
like Trigonometry to produce better and more honest content.
00:01:16.400
We have big plans and we'll shortly be announcing exciting new shows and more
00:01:25.040
When you support us, you also get incredible extra content such as extended interviews
00:01:32.000
with none of those irritating adverts and they'll be released 24 hours early just for you.
00:01:38.560
We'll have exclusive bonus interviews that only you get to hear.
00:01:42.000
Click the link on the podcast description or find the link on your podcast listening app to join us.
00:01:48.640
Support us and help change the way we have conversations and make the world saner.
00:01:53.360
Neil, we interviewed Bill Maher a couple of days ago and one of the things we were saying to him is how
00:01:59.040
much we respect the fact that he sticks to the ethos that we always thought was the ethos of comedy,
00:02:07.280
You don't go, oh, those guys over there that we hate, let's just bang on about how evil they are endlessly.
00:02:14.960
But you actually make fun of both sides and blocks your later special does that incredibly well.
00:02:19.680
Is that something you were conscious of when you were doing that?
00:02:22.080
Is that something that is kind of a thing that you think about or is it just something that comes naturally?
00:02:26.240
I think the jokes come involuntarily and then I don't go, well, I'm going to be losing.
00:02:40.320
I don't want to lose because I've realized something.
00:02:43.680
The older I get, the more I realize like you never have the group anyway, especially liberals.
00:02:49.920
There's no, the goalposts keep moving. So you're, the purity test gets purer and purer.
00:02:56.320
So there's no point in courting them because there's no loyalty.
00:03:02.640
Having said that, I think there is more loyalty on the right, but I don't believe a lot.
00:03:07.280
Like I just don't agree with the, I'm, I'm like, I'm, I'm oriented to the left.
00:03:15.360
You're a disaffected liberal. Is that fair to say?
00:03:17.440
I think that's very extremely fair to say. Uh, yeah.
00:03:29.760
I think the, the, as I stated, there's not a ton of loyalty. There's, it's the,
00:03:35.920
it's all the old arguments, the circular firing squad, the, uh, the,
00:03:41.520
they, they'd rather attack, you know, an impure liberal than, than a, a, just a super far right
00:03:51.280
person. Um, and there's blind spots that on both sides. And I think knowing more liberals than,
00:04:03.680
than conservatives, they just blind to them, you know?
00:04:06.560
Yeah. That's the thing that I find frustrating. And as someone who would call themselves a
00:04:11.440
disaffected liberal as well, that's the thing that I struggle with.
00:04:14.240
You know what's great about you and I, we both look liberal and we both look visibly disaffected.
00:04:23.680
You, well, the blazer's not doing you a ton of.
00:04:27.840
That is true. That is true. It's the centrist blazer. It drags me to the middle.
00:04:34.080
We look like we're waiting for the blur concert to start.
00:04:36.720
Yeah, we do. We do. We just, we, you know, this is, I think this is, you know,
00:04:40.880
what part of it is, Neil, I've got Irish heritage and I've got Latino heritage. And when you've got
00:04:45.280
Irish, you get pale, you get sad. It doesn't matter what you mix it with.
1.00
00:04:54.320
But it's interesting what you were saying, because it's the blind spots that I find frustrating.
00:04:59.680
Not that you believe a certain thing, because if you believe a certain thing,
00:05:02.400
then great, believe a certain thing, whatever it is. But it's the blind spots. I'm like,
00:05:08.560
Yeah, it just, it's, defensiveness isn't attractive on anybody and, and especially ideological defensiveness.
00:05:17.760
And, uh, and, and so it's just this, it became, I think in the age of social media,
00:05:23.440
as well, it became more people became more and more intractable in their points of view.
00:05:31.360
And then it became, if they could dunk on you, then it was settled. And it's like, no,
00:05:37.520
this is a fixed fight. This is a fixed fight. It's a, I have a term for it, which is a, uh,
00:05:43.200
Putin karate tournament. You ever see Putin do karate? Seems fixed.
00:05:48.320
Doesn't it? Where he's just flipping people over and just like, so there, the most of the internet
00:05:54.880
is a, is a Putin's karate tournament. And, and, uh, and, but, and then everybody gets in their,
00:06:01.920
their silos and it's just, it, and then it's just a pure diet of, of, of confirmation bias. And
00:06:09.120
it, it's, it's, it's, I feel like it's kind of stopped a little bit, but it was, it was heading
00:06:18.800
hard in one direction for 13 years, probably. Yeah. In my estimation. And I think one of the
00:06:24.960
reasons that I, I'm certainly disaffected is when I was, I don't know how old you are. I'm 40.
00:06:29.520
I don't talk about it. I wouldn't. Um, when I was growing up, it was the religious right
00:06:38.000
who all the comedians that I respected, Carl and Hicks, were making fun of. Yep. And the reason was,
00:06:43.440
those were the people who were saying, can't say that, can't do this, can't have this opinion.
00:06:47.680
Don't, don't use that word. You know, Hicks's last Letterman monologue was censored. It was not
00:06:54.640
published for over a decade, I think, because he made fun of religious people, right? So they
1.00
00:06:59.360
were quote unquote, the bad guys for comedians, for people who believe that expression is important
00:07:04.800
for people who believe in their ability to joke and take the piss, as we say, et cetera.
00:07:09.040
And so the reason I'm disaffected is like, then it flipped. And now the people going,
00:07:13.600
you can't say this, you can't do that are like our team. If you, I still think it's,
00:07:17.680
I think, still think it's, I think it's still the religious right. And now the left also,
00:07:22.080
the religious, I don't even think it's, yes, precisely. I have a Hicks observation.
00:07:27.840
I, he, you'll meet no bigger Hicks fan than me. Saw him live, introduced Dave Chappelle to Bill
00:07:34.000
Hicks. Dave said, he's never seen me more nervous. It was like 1992 or three. Um,
00:07:40.960
that joke about, uh, American gladiators, where he says, watch these pituary retards,
1.00
00:07:47.840
pituary is not a word. He meant pituitary. And it's a fucking tragedy that he said that in public.
00:07:54.800
He just was misusing a word publicly. One of the smartest communities ever, um,
0.99
00:08:00.800
neither here nor there. Uh, the, it is now it's, it's the thing where now, uh, you know,
00:08:08.880
the left is advocating, um, not saying misgendering or you can't misgender people. That's just one
0.99
00:08:17.360
example. And then the right's still trying to ban books. So it's both sides, uh, to me that are both
00:08:23.440
still doing, um, all of the things that are easy to make fun of. Hmm. And they are just banning
00:08:31.440
different books. They're both banning different books. You know, when you say banning books,
00:08:36.560
what do you mean? Cause I'm not like the, like the, on the right wanting to not, uh, in Florida,
00:08:42.960
getting rid of all the DEI curriculum and whatever you can call it banning books or you can call it,
00:08:48.160
uh, they don't want that type of stuff published or taught.
00:08:55.200
Well, taught and published are very different things, right? Like banning something for, you know,
00:08:59.920
not reading Mein Kampf to five-year-olds is not banning the book. It's, it's how you decide what
00:09:05.680
the education system teaches people, right? Yeah. So I, I, that's what I always sort of,
00:09:10.400
I'm not sure that they are banning books exactly, but I know what you mean. You know what I mean?
00:09:14.080
There is a, there's a desire for restriction and censorship on, on every side, particularly
00:09:19.520
towards the extremes. Yes. Yeah. I see what you're saying. But, and the thing that also that I find
00:09:25.200
frustrating and worrying actually is a much better word is we've kind of, things have kind of settled
00:09:30.720
down. They've kind of, we, we hit a peak during the Trump years and now they're starting to settle,
00:09:37.440
to settle. People are starting to become less entrenched. People are, there's a modicum of
00:09:41.600
common sense being injected into the discourse. It's less insane. But then I look over the horizon
00:09:48.400
and I see 2024 and I'm going, holy fuck, it's going to get bad again. Heat up your hot takes,
0.99
00:09:57.520
because we're going to need them. Uh, I think it will be insane. I think it will be
00:10:04.960
less insane than it's been. Cause I think people thought that there was going to be some promise
00:10:12.720
land of, of, uh, like, we'll just settle these arguments and I'll expend a ton of energy on this,
00:10:20.800
on arguing online and all this stuff. And then we'll all figure it out and we can go back to life
00:10:26.560
as we knew it. And what they realized is the arguments were not settled. And all you can kind of
00:10:31.840
do is like divest yourself a little bit of the intensity. And like, I just got to go on Twitter
00:10:39.200
less or just coming to like personal decisions of like, I, I, you know, people now are saying it,
00:10:46.800
when they say I got into an argument on Twitter, it's with a sense of shame now or a sense of
00:10:52.560
exhaustion. And like, I can't fucking believe it. I did it again. Whereas before it was like,
0.97
00:10:57.840
I got into an argument, can I show you? And it was, it was more proud and righteous. And now it's,
00:11:03.840
it seems a little bit more exhausted because we're starting, I think more and more we're
00:11:07.840
starting to understand, Neil, that actually social media isn't good for us. Whereas before,
00:11:12.080
because it was so brand new, I'm holding out hope. Oh, I want it. No. Yeah. Of course it was brand
00:11:16.720
new. We thought there was some bounty awaiting us. If we won that argument, like it would be settled.
00:11:24.320
And it's just not, never going to be. It's like all technology. It has, I mean,
00:11:28.480
social media is fucking brilliant and it's fucking terrible. Yes. That's what it is. And so like
0.99
00:11:33.120
many things, you know, we interviewed Tom Bilyeu from Impact Theory yesterday. I don't know if you're
00:11:37.680
familiar with him, but he, he said something that really, first of all, he explained why we started
00:11:42.880
the show, but also just gave a frame for how to think about these things. He was saying, I believe we
00:11:48.160
need a creative tension between different sides on many issues, left and right and whatever else it might be.
00:11:53.840
Yeah. And that's why, you know, talking about the centrist blazer, like that's what I always
00:11:58.320
thought. The left has some good ideas. The right has some good ideas. Uh, they both have some terrible
00:12:03.280
ideas, particularly the extremes. How do we kind of synthesize from different sides? But we have been
00:12:10.080
pushed apart and that center ground where the good stuff happens, that is less and less populated.
00:12:16.720
Now, do you, would you, I, the, the thing that I'm coming here, I was thinking about like,
00:12:23.520
not like I'm like, Neil, you need to decide who you are. This is a once and for all.
00:12:29.200
There are decisions that I think every human being makes or comes to that are
00:12:38.560
in my internal Supreme Court, a five to four decision. There are no unanimous decisions. There
00:12:45.920
are things where I am 53% for 47% against, but I have to vote in favor of, of the 53. And, and I think
00:12:58.640
that's the thing that people won't acknowledge like that, that we are living, especially now
00:13:07.120
society is so transparent. Our lives are so transparent. It was easier before when we just
00:13:13.200
didn't know anything. I'm doing a joke where I'm like, it was better before documentaries. Cause we
00:13:18.800
could say stuff like, yeah, the whale wants to be at sea world. And then you go, then all these
00:13:24.240
documentaries, there's footage of everything. Everyone's trackable. So now we know everyone's
00:13:33.360
hypocrisies, including ourselves. So, and you guys probably know firsthand the more aware you are,
00:13:40.560
or if you grew up in the church or whatever, in Catholic church, like I did, like the more aware
00:13:46.240
people are of their own hypocrisies, the more they'll cover it up and no, no, no, no, no, no,
00:13:49.920
and shove it down. And so I'm kind of comfortable now just saying like, I'm a hypocrite, you know,
0.98
00:13:57.920
hypocrite in a lot of ways and I'm happy to make fun of them. And you know, even the, if you get
0.96
00:14:06.160
down, like take abortion, for instance, if you get down to the core argument, it's like, when does life
00:14:12.080
begin? That's a pretty fucking big question, huh? So that's like the heartbeat. Okay. How'd you come
0.96
00:14:19.520
to that? How does it, once you start asking follow-ups, so many arguments fall apart. And I think
00:14:27.440
prior to social media, uh, and the, and a transparent, basically a transparent society,
00:14:34.000
we were more comfortable just accepting like, yep, I'm pro-choice or I'm pro-life or whatever.
00:14:39.440
And then you get into the specifics of anything and it's, it's, you just go, yeah, I'm, I'm barely,
00:14:46.320
I'm this, but not by a ton. And that's such a great point because I think that's one of the
00:14:52.720
problems of our age is the death of nuance. Like people wanting to pretend very complex,
00:14:58.240
very serious issues are relatively simple. And you're like, come on, man, if it was relatively
00:15:03.360
simple, wouldn't we have solved this? Wouldn't we have gone, oh, we just need to do this and then
00:15:07.280
move on to the next thing? Yeah. I, and, and even, and, and I also, as a comedian,
00:15:13.840
I, I know people with wildly divergent opinions, uh, and always have. And it's, are you funny?
00:15:25.840
Are you nice? Great. It's like, it's, I've been friends with Joe Rogan for 30 years.
00:15:31.760
And, and, and sometimes people on the left would be like, how? And I'm like, cause he's
00:15:37.200
fucking funny and nice and, and like has helped, like did, was nice to me when I was a doorman
0.94
00:15:45.440
at a comedy club, had no reason to be other than just like, I like this guy. He likes him, whatever.
0.96
00:15:50.320
He was, he did Chappelle's show before it was popular. He, he's had me on his podcast a dozen
00:15:54.720
times. Like I don't, I'm not, I'm, I'm less, uh, apt to want to sort of dismiss or, or, or throw people
00:16:04.720
away because I know that everyone's opinion isn't, maybe he's got a 55, 45 opinion that we disagree.
00:16:14.240
I, it's not a blowout. It's like, that's what, that's where he ended up. And, and I can accept it
00:16:20.640
as a human being who has his own process to accept that other people ran their process.
00:16:27.680
And that's the decision they came to. And also as well, if you're going to be one of those people
00:16:31.760
who ditches people, which is a lovely way of putting it out. I would like to say I have ditched
00:16:35.120
people. I don't want to say like, I've never, I have, and I kind of regret it. Yeah. Why did you,
00:16:41.600
sorry, Francis, I think that's a good follow up. Why did you ditch people and why do you regret it?
00:16:45.480
Because when things are fevered during an election or during a big, you know, a big, uh,
00:16:53.560
Supreme court decision or January six or whatever, you start to feel like these are, uh,
00:17:00.760
like primal life and death existential. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, and you've started to go like,
00:17:07.640
I must, there was also this thing of, of, it felt like, or, or COVID where we had to,
00:17:12.440
to, if you believe this, then you believe all these other things that I can't countenance.
00:17:20.360
I cannot accept that in you. And it's just, it's, I, so I would make decisions again, not a ton.
00:17:28.200
And I can't even think of any specifics, but, but I know I have, so I don't, I want to cover myself.
00:17:32.520
Um, and, and that you, you feel like it's the noble thing to do. You know, it's the noble for my ethics.
00:17:42.120
Meanwhile, my ethics are fucking papers. And why do you regret it?
0.99
00:17:48.360
Because it's childish. It's childish. It's just a childish way to, to, to, uh, approach,
00:17:55.640
you know, nothing. Well, not nothing is that important, but, but it's, it's, it's a, it speaks
00:18:04.920
to a lack of maturity on my part. And what it also doesn't acknowledge is how precious friendship is.
00:18:13.240
Yeah. That's a big one. I mean, that's another big one where it's like, like I said about Joe,
00:18:17.000
Joe's not even a, yeah, it's like, cause they're not like,
00:18:21.240
like, it's interesting in this sort of, sort of scarlet letter time of like, ah, you know,
00:18:30.920
the thing that, that people, a value that totally got lost was loyalty. Yeah. The value of
00:18:44.920
like, no, I like this person. They've been kind to me. They've helped me. I can't now just
00:18:50.600
immediately turn my back. Cause, cause, uh, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever small infraction
00:18:57.960
it is. Um, and, and there's also that thing with the, with the me too stuff where it's hard to know
00:19:07.560
how to you, you risk if you defend somebody, uh, or even defend their right to like a fair
00:19:16.760
hearing, right. Then you're anti the other side, you know, whether you're like, I believe this woman,
00:19:26.280
well, are you saying that it's a rush to judgment on about the guy? Okay. And if you say, I stand with
00:19:31.320
the guy's right to, uh, then you're, you're, you're, you hate all women.
00:19:36.360
I mean, we had this with in, um, with the Vax. When he got me too. Yeah, exactly. And I came out
00:19:43.960
and we quashed it. Not guilty. Yes, exactly. I mean, that's not exactly what they say. No,
00:19:48.760
no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, no. The lack of evidence, but, um, but, and also as well,
00:19:55.560
just talking about how precious friendship is, we live in a world now where we're on online more and
00:20:00.920
more and more friendship, especially in real life, just seems to be receding. And what happened to,
00:20:09.480
yeah, I mean, he could look, he's a bit of a dick about this, but he's a great guy.
00:20:13.640
I think computers, meaning I don't think that there's
00:20:20.600
much, who needs friends? It's, it's, I think it was an onion article or somebody where it was,
00:20:26.280
it was, uh, people can't have three minute phone conversations, but can listen to two hour
00:20:34.600
podcasts. That's somehow, no, that's easy, you know, but like just getting on the, when someone
00:20:41.720
calls you there and you're like, what, you know, whereas, and you guys release a podcast,
00:20:46.200
we all know, and we're all waiting, just, we're hitting refresh. Um, but, but seriously,
00:20:50.600
like there, there is less of a in-person, it's not a product people want anymore. Uh, like an
00:20:58.440
in-person relationship is less necessary in the age of, I can get my exact order delivered to my exact
00:21:09.160
location and I don't get challenged in any way. I don't get, uh, I don't get sort of a pre you don't
00:21:19.080
get any human interaction, but one of them, the main ones is I don't get challenged. I don't get
00:21:22.680
inconvenience. I don't have to shower. I don't have to do all the stuff that's a bit of a,
00:21:28.200
a bit of an inconvenience. I think our brains make it like a huge inconvenience. You just imagine it
00:21:32.600
is way worse than it is. So I think the, the, it is, there is a weird thing where it's a lack of,
00:21:42.440
we feel like there's lack of a necessity for friendship.
00:21:44.840
It's interesting you say that because I know that I think podcasts show that the opposite
00:21:51.000
is also true and, but two things can be true at once, right? Uh, we have a mutual friend.
00:21:57.080
We have a mutual friend where like, I disagree with them a lot more than you do probably.
00:22:03.880
And we have such a great time because the, that's interesting to me talking to interesting
00:22:09.640
people who think about things in a complex way who don't agree with me. And we talk for hours
00:22:15.000
and likewise with lots of other people. And I think the reason people enjoy podcasts is,
00:22:19.080
you know, we have, uh, people who watch our show who are like, we watched that episode and then I
00:22:23.320
sat down with my husband and we talked about it for two hours.
00:22:25.640
Yeah. You know, there is something to be said for, uh, I believe a guy named Jonathan Solomon,
00:22:32.120
a comedian in the eighties and nineties to the joke about, uh, Cosmo magazine being the playbook
00:22:39.000
of the enemy. And, and it was just like a good, it's like a good observation. Like women's magazines,
00:22:44.200
like the, what are these, what are these crazy people thinking? Right. Um, there is something to be said
00:22:49.000
for what is the other side thing. It's also fun having a friend that is on the other side,
00:22:58.920
so to speak. And you guys talk shit about your own side with each other and you're like, oh yeah,
0.96
00:23:04.520
you're totally right about it. I was like, right. I'm like, what does that person think? So that's
0.99
00:23:08.760
enjoyable. And also it can be entertained. It's entertaining. Like, it's just, if somebody's got
00:23:16.760
a, if somebody thinks that Hillary Clinton is a vampire or whatever, and they can show me a good
00:23:23.480
joke about it, I don't think Hillary Clinton's a vampire, but I, if you do, I can see why that's
0.99
00:23:29.640
funny. And therefore I can kind of get in. I think it's funny now because I, part of it is,
00:23:34.120
I think your point of view is ridiculous, but this is a good illustration of it. Like I love the Babylon
0.76
00:23:38.600
Bee. I don't agree with them politically, but like committee I've done their pocket, like comedically
00:23:43.800
those guys, I send those articles as much, I send those links as much as any other comedy
00:23:51.800
other than The Onion. It's like one and one A in terms of like, it's fucking, look at this joke.
0.97
00:23:56.600
This is a fucking good joke. There is, there is something really delicious about
0.99
00:24:02.280
someone trashing your side or your beliefs. So I really enjoy like when I was watching blocks
00:24:07.880
as a disaffected liberal, the joke about, you know, you're a conservative, welcome. You go to a group
00:24:13.480
of liberals. We'll see. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. That's the, the, maybe the worst telling of that joke.
00:24:19.320
I know. I was going to say you fucking butchered it. Please, please cut to a clip. I'm begging.
0.99
00:24:25.240
I'll clear it with Netflix. I'll call Ted Sarandos myself. A conservative goes to a group of
00:24:31.560
conservatives. They say, welcome. A liberal goes to a group of liberals. They say, we'll see.
00:24:37.240
Yes. And yes. And I've, I also butchered it because I fucked. We'll insert the clip.
00:24:43.080
Now I'm afraid. I'm not even going to tell it because I'm afraid I'll
00:24:45.400
fuck it up. Like it's going to be continuously. You're going to be, you're getting us.
0.80
00:24:50.680
Yeah, I know. Neil's comedy is brilliant. It's much better than we've been.
00:24:55.960
The problem with being liberal is there's no amount of liberal that's ever liberal enough.
00:24:59.640
Like if there's a bunch of Republicans standing around and someone comes up and goes,
00:25:02.200
Hey, I'm Republican. They go like, come on in. There's a bunch of liberals standing
00:25:05.480
around and a liberal comes up and goes, Hey, I'm liberal. They're like, we'll see.
00:25:11.000
Yeah, it, there is no, I, I understand, uh, Gavin Newsom joke. Like I get what, if I was not liberal,
00:25:21.480
I would understand how loathsome people find Gavin Newsom or, or Nancy Pelosi or, or, uh, well,
00:25:29.480
who was the corpse? The corpse who finally, no, that's the other corpse.
00:25:33.880
Um, the, uh, yeah, I've been doing a joke that we're either going to get,
00:25:38.360
we're either going to be led by Trump from jail or Biden from hospice.
00:25:43.560
And that's just where we are as a country. Um, yeah. Like I, like admitting that Biden's
00:25:48.600
fucking incredibly, wildly old, you know what I mean? Like admitting that Barbara, is that?
0.99
00:25:55.240
No, it wasn't, but who was the lady who just died like a month ago?
0.76
00:25:57.560
Oh, fine. Fine. Fine. Yeah. She wouldn't give it up. So, so admitting like I, and not pretending
00:26:04.360
it's in any way, uh, cool. I think you just go, yeah, Biden's a corpse, but I'm going to vote for
00:26:12.120
him. Cause I, I don't care what the president looks like or even how he walks. I need the votes.
00:26:20.200
That's my point of view on it. Hmm. I don't see it as like a leadership position. It's like
00:26:24.600
the optics. I just don't, that just doesn't speak to me. And what does that say now about American
00:26:30.920
society? Because you look at America, you go, you've got all these great thinkers. You've got
00:26:35.560
some of the best colleges in the world. You've got all these amazing people here and you go,
00:26:39.960
that's the best you can give me. Um, yeah, it's, it's funny. Cause I think of like a young,
00:26:49.880
someone under 55 couldn't win cause they have too much shit in public. You know what I mean? Like
1.00
00:26:57.440
it's going to have to take that generation, like people over 60 to die. And then it'll be a bunch of
0.99
00:27:04.440
candidates with, with dick pics and, uh, controversial old tweets. And it, it'll just
0.99
00:27:13.800
have to be like a mutually assured destruction thing where, where it was kind of like when
00:27:17.800
everyone knew Bush did Coke, but there was even with the media that were kind of like,
00:27:23.680
what I think it's going to get to that point. I hope, or, or I don't even, if I hope, I don't
00:27:30.160
know if it's better. I'd say that's where we're going. But we just got to run out of old people
1.00
00:27:34.920
first. Kind of. Yeah. Or like people that believe in that, those sort of, or even Obama said he did
00:27:41.400
like, so it just became this thing of like, what's permissible, um, for a candidate. And what does this
00:27:49.020
whole environment do for comedy? Is this like a really good time? Do you feel, I think it's a good
00:27:54.080
time. I don't look all, even all my friends who have gotten canceled are doing arenas. So, so I'm
00:28:02.760
not, I wouldn't cry for Chappelle or Rogan or Tom or any of these, like, or any of these guys are,
00:28:10.560
all these guys are doing incredibly well. And the tension is fun to me. To me, it's fun. It's fun.
00:28:21.240
It's like the, there's more lasers and you kind of have to, you know, get around them in a
00:28:28.100
cleverer way, you know, than, than, uh, just kind of, or, or not, or you can just say whatever you
00:28:37.120
want and deal with the deal there. The backlash seems to be, I think the backlashers realize like,
00:28:43.760
this is useless and they're creating popularity for the people. They're making stars. I suppose the
00:28:50.200
one question I always think about is that's definitely true for you. And if someone wants
00:28:54.640
to try and cancel us, it will be true for us. Is that true for a new comic who's sort of making
00:29:00.640
their way up? I mean, I think Shane Gillis, uh, is a good example of, uh, somebody who used the,
00:29:08.740
uh, cancel his cancellation as a jujitsu. Um, and it's a springboard like, Oh, you never heard of
00:29:19.360
me. And I'm now the guy who did, uh, Chinese, uh, offensive Chinese accent that, that every single
1.00
00:29:26.380
human being alive has done. And then Chinese people have done a different accent. Chinese people have
0.98
00:29:31.940
done Indian and then everyone has their accent that they secretly do. Um, so, so I don't, I see it
1.00
00:29:41.780
as like, I don't worry about the young, the next generation. Cause I don't think that there's much
00:29:46.560
of a, there, I don't think it worked. I just don't think it was like a, I don't, I think it, I don't
00:29:53.740
know if it totally backfired, but it's just, you're just creating, you just was a form of like,
00:30:01.080
you know, star search or something. Well, this is what I say, you know, in terms of cancel culture,
00:30:06.800
what are the way to defeat it is to go, Oh, you try to cancel somebody. Well, they're bigger now,
00:30:11.360
you know? And then eventually, I mean, these people are quite slow, but eventually they'll work
00:30:15.860
out. This isn't what you do. Yeah. I think, well, it hasn't happened in, it hasn't happened since Dave
00:30:21.780
Chappelle with the trans stuff. So I think, and they, they kind of, I don't know if they would,
1.00
00:30:29.080
anyone would consider that a success. No, no, I don't think Dave probably does.
00:30:35.340
Right. You go for it. Yeah. I was going to say actually, so could you make the Chappelle show
00:30:41.580
now on TV? By the way, Chappelle show is your, used to be a teacher. Yeah.
00:30:47.880
You really do watch trigonometry. It's going to come up. Do you know he's from Venezuela?
00:30:54.700
Uh, I don't know what the fuck that has to do with it. He says it every other episode.
0.99
00:31:00.720
Yeah. I only have two talking points. He's not as big a fan as we thought.
00:31:09.560
We'll be right back. Um, uh, uh, I don't know. It's one of those things where,
00:31:16.940
uh, I don't want to say like we couldn't do it today. Um, I think it would be a bigger pain in the
00:31:28.820
ass because for all of the, as much as I say, like cancel culture doesn't work, I would say it's taxing
0.98
00:31:38.700
on a person's spirit. Um, whether you're Dave or Joe or, or, or, or, you know, Shane Ellis or whatever
00:31:47.760
it, it, you get through it, but it is like, fuck, I think it's a bit of like a, um, and that would
0.96
00:31:55.640
have been, there was not much of a, the only barometer for like, should we do this was personal.
0.96
00:32:03.940
It wasn't, we, there was no worry about so-and-so is going to come down and it was more just like,
00:32:11.420
yeah, do you want to, is that a thing that's worth, is that an idea that's worth promoting?
00:32:17.840
Yeah. You know, you know, there are some comics who say actually they like those lasers now being in
00:32:23.700
place. I agree. That's what I mean. I, I would say I'm one of those comics cause it, it certainly
00:32:28.340
like, you know, uh, separates, I was going to say men from the boys. It feels like you can't say that
00:32:35.520
anymore. And I don't even know why. I don't know why you can't say that anymore, but I don't think
00:32:43.240
you can. I just, it feels bad. Yeah. It's cause we're sitting in LA. Yeah. There you go. That's
00:32:48.700
why, that's why. Do you ever feel like there's, I know you get the sense of lasers and that was so
00:32:53.280
beautiful about blocks is that it felt like a comedian who was at the top of their game,
00:32:56.840
tap dancing around the lasers. But do you ever, cause we've spoken to people about this in
00:33:02.580
liberal comics as well, who say that it kind of influences their writing somewhat. Like they
00:33:09.440
find themselves sensitive, self-censoring as opposed to a more overt, like you can't say that from
00:33:16.600
person over there. I, yeah, it, that's what I mean. It ends up being you, you, even the cancel culture,
00:33:24.780
it does, the specter of it exists. I don't, it's not a ton of stuff that I'm like dying to say.
00:33:34.680
There are some words that are not very acceptable anymore that I, I'm going to be honest with you,
00:33:40.300
I miss. Uh, it wasn't. Like retard. Yeah. We all miss it, man. It's a great word. It's a great word.
1.00
00:33:46.460
It's a great, Rogan has a great bit about this, how like people have lost, and this is something I
00:33:50.600
wanted to talk to you about, which is people have lost their ability. Retards. Retards have lost
1.00
00:33:57.120
their ability to understand context. And his point is when you've got somebody saying that to a five
00:34:02.760
year old mentally handicapped kid, that's fucking unacceptable. But if you're saying it about a guy
1.00
00:34:07.940
in his forties who thinks the earth is flat, it's perfect. Yeah. I, yeah, I would agree with that.
00:34:13.640
Um, so, and that's part of it. That's why I missed it. That's why I miss it. Um, is it's just an
00:34:20.960
effective tool. Yeah. You know, and it's, so you just go, you're, oh, look at this neurodivergent
00:34:27.840
motherfucker. You just have to like, it's Doug, Doug Stanum used to do a bit about where it just moves
0.99
00:34:33.600
on because at one point retard was the clean word. It was like the substitute word and they just pie it.
0.95
00:34:41.300
They just evolve. Um, and, and so, so I don't, I, I miss it. But again, it's like, all right,
00:34:47.860
I'll get another tool. Yeah. I'll say neurodivergent motherfucker and everyone will hear
00:34:51.540
retard. Do you think the lasers make you better, make you more skilled? Now you're having to kind
1.00
00:34:57.860
of bob and weave a little bit? I don't know. I, maybe it's, uh, I will say tension helps comedy. So I,
00:35:06.360
let's say it does make it more, more, it makes it, it, there, there's more tension. So if you can hit
00:35:13.620
it, right. Um, that was the great thing. The jokes and blocks that I liked doing was like,
00:35:19.220
most of my crowd is liberal. So like making fun of abortion and guns and, and the purity tests and
00:35:26.540
all that stuff was, and hearing them laugh was, it was like, okay, so you're, I'm not alone in,
00:35:32.960
in, in recognizing this. So I think the tension does, is useful overall in common. And it also
00:35:41.020
brings, I have a theory that a few people have stolen, but, but there were these pillars of,
00:35:50.700
of, um, of, of wisdom or pillars of just kind of moral or societal pillars. Government.
00:36:00.660
But again, I'm talking about a hundred years ago or six years ago, government, um, clergy and
00:36:15.000
media. And you get to even throw like business in there. And then they all got exposed through
00:36:25.000
various means and fell. And then it became like, you know, who's pretty wise is that George Carlin
00:36:33.460
or that Jon Stewart or that, or, or Dave, or even like Michael Moore at a point or Chris Rock or
00:36:40.800
guys that are, and women that were in Wanda and Sarah and like people that were, that are smart.
00:36:47.560
And so then comedians become the kind of pillars of, uh, they, they're de facto because everybody else
00:36:57.600
fell. So, but, and our job is just to be funny. And like, I don't think Carlin was trying to be wise.
00:37:04.040
He just kind of was, but, but we became the sort of de facto weirdly kind of pillars of wisdom and
00:37:16.560
morality. And I don't think I'm wrong. It's absurd, but I don't, it's absurd, but I think it's also
00:37:23.540
maybe true. Yeah. And that's, that's kind of worrying as well. That is worrying. Cause look,
00:37:29.580
I love comedy, biggest comedy fan. I'm a comedian. I don't know if I want a comedian
00:37:35.820
to have that role in society. Yeah. It's like, I was Greg Fitzsimmons, a buddy of mine comedian.
00:37:43.620
And he's, he's, he started with Joe and he's, so we just talk about like when the white house is
00:37:49.480
getting mad at Joe or CNN is talking about Joe Fitzsimmons helped Joe steal his car stereo back
00:37:56.220
from his ex-girlfriend. Like just, we all have these stories of like Dave Chappelle's a moral
00:38:01.740
leader. And I'm like, I've got stories, but they're all personal story. It's just this weird
00:38:07.660
thing of like them. Okay. It's, it speaks to the same thing about like, what does it say about
00:38:13.960
American politics that, that I'm willing to vote for a corpse? Um, but it's, it, I now having said
00:38:22.120
that, I don't think Joe and Dave are immoral or not, but I don't think they're, yeah, they're human.
00:38:28.120
And I think there is like, uh, there's a learning curve where I remember when, when Jon Stewart was
00:38:34.300
being held up as, uh, like a lot of people were getting the news from him and he was like, I'm on
0.71
00:38:40.020
after fucking robots fighting each other. Like, I don't want to be in like puppets making crank phone
0.96
00:38:46.520
calls. I don't want to be the arbiter of information and morality, but nobody else stepping
00:38:54.800
up, you know? And I would argue that perhaps in some ways you could argue it's gone too far and
00:39:00.040
certain, like Trevor Noah, for example, he, he does like lectures, right? He, he, what do you mean?
00:39:05.340
In like in the world or in, on the show? On the show. Yes. He will do a whole segment about a very
00:39:10.620
contentious issue that people will see from different sides, depending where they are. There's not much
00:39:15.080
humor in it quite often. And it's kind of like him giving, it's like a political sort
00:39:19.740
of speech. And, and I, I don't necessarily blame him for that. I think there's a demand
00:39:24.380
for that. Yeah. That's kind of, that's what you're saying. We've kind of got to a position
00:39:27.840
where comedians were like thrust into this space. Yeah. It's funny when there's a tragedy,
00:39:34.160
uh, shooting 9-11. I think people remember Letterman's 9-11, post 9-11 monologue and,
00:39:45.080
and John's post 9-11 monologue more than Bush, you know, more, it's like, why am I looking
00:39:54.080
to Seth Meyers and Trevor for leadership? Again, these are guys that I know very well. And I'm
00:40:00.840
like, I don't have like, again, I've got stories and I don't mean that with David and Joey. It's just
00:40:05.140
like, they're very human and they didn't move to New York or LA to like, I'm going to do some
00:40:13.140
moral leadership. Right. Ma, pack my back. You know, it's like, it's just a weird,
00:40:18.740
you know, abdication on the part of all these other institutions.
00:40:25.320
And look, I understand these people are your friends and whatever. So this isn't me trying
00:40:29.620
to get you. No, I don't think you are. No, I'm not. But I've got another question,
00:40:32.560
which is, um, a lot of people, particularly there's a lot of people in the center center
00:40:41.100
right who would look at Trevor and go, Oh, he's not funny. I'm like, I used to watch his
00:40:44.460
standup. He's fucking amazing. Trevor's fucking amazing. Again, like Trevor's really fucking
0.99
00:40:48.880
funny. However, if I mainly watch the moral lectures that I see retweeted on Twitter,
0.96
00:40:53.920
I would think he's not funny. Sure. And what I wanted to ask you is, and you know,
00:41:00.480
feel free to answer any way you want. I'm not trying to lead you anywhere. I'm just curious
00:41:03.780
as an outside observer watching these late night shows, it feels to me, disagree if you
00:41:10.140
want, that they've lost teeth and they've lost humor. They're not as funny and they're
00:41:17.060
not as biting and they're not as interesting to me. Am I wrong?
00:41:21.180
Yeah. I know what you mean about there. You kind of know what the, uh, what they're going
00:41:27.980
to, the area that they're going to talk about, what they're going to say. It's fairly prescribed.
00:41:33.480
Um, I think it's a, a, a market decision in that it's, it's the type of people who come
00:41:43.720
to the taping. You have to do well. If I'm, if I'm, I would do the daily show sometimes.
00:41:50.740
I wouldn't do that well because they weren't really my people, so to speak. Um, they, so
1.00
00:41:58.420
you've got the type of people who wanted to come to set say any, literally any build Mars
00:42:05.120
tapings. Um, like they, they, they come to hear a certain type of thing. Right.
00:42:12.420
Well, here's sorry to interrupt. I want to hear the rest, but here's where I might disagree
00:42:16.120
with what you're about to say, which is, I think Bill, what he's done is he's actually shown
00:42:19.520
leadership. I, what's funny about Bill is he would bomb sometimes. And I saw it as a, uh,
00:42:27.800
a good thing. Meaning like that means you're doing something right. Right.
00:42:32.760
He changed his audience over time. That's what he did. Because he was like, I have principles.
00:42:37.320
I don't like what's happening with COVID. Eventually I don't like this woke shit.
1.00
00:42:41.680
Yeah. I'm going to take the audience with me and I'm going to lose some on the way.
0.99
00:42:46.320
Yeah. Right. But you're saying in these other shows that that is more difficult.
00:42:50.660
Well, I was going to say Bill would complain if he would get ooze sometimes. So it's like,
00:42:55.340
I always saw it as good that he was getting ooze. I always thought like, dude, that's good that
00:42:59.060
you're not, but that's the thing. Like as comedians, you want to kill. Right. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Of
0.98
00:43:03.360
course. Um, some of us can't though. Um, so, uh, so, so I, so it becomes this thing of how am I
00:43:13.940
going to do well on tape? Right. So then you're almost working backward from like, I tried this point
00:43:21.060
of view yesterday. It got like nothing. Right. So then even, or if you do a rehearsal, doesn't go
00:43:27.120
well, then you're like, I can't, I don't want to say this cause I'm just going to eat shit.
0.99
00:43:31.400
Right. Um, so you've got to feed that. And then you just get in this feedback loop of you say that
0.99
00:43:38.200
it goes viral, feels good. And then you just get into that thing. Now, having said that,
00:43:43.580
knowing all these people, none of them are changing their point of view to get likes or get, um,
00:43:52.740
virality. Like I can tell you, I've known Seth from before he hosted update. I've known Trevor
00:43:58.460
from before he hosted the daily show. Like they're not that they Trevor's very naturally
00:44:05.960
reconciliatory. Um, like it's just his natural. I always did a joke with him. He's like half black,
1.00
00:44:12.320
half white, half man, half fish. Like he's just at half, like he is walking reconciliation. So
00:44:18.360
I can understand why that it's frustrating or sort of, eh, kind of makes you roll your eyes a little
00:44:27.020
bit, but I know where they're coming from. It's like Seth, I wrote for Seth on the correspondence
00:44:32.600
dinner. It wasn't, we made fun of, I don't, the tone hasn't changed very much. You know, he was,
00:44:40.680
we were one of the, again, one of the early making fun of Trump's, but, um, so I don't,
00:44:46.140
I don't think the tone, I don't think anyone's gotten the job and changed their tone very much.
00:44:50.080
It's interesting. Yeah. And because you do see all of these guys. And again, as someone who is a
00:44:56.640
disaffected liberal, I go, I would just like someone on the right as well to be on a show
00:45:02.540
and have a little bit more teeth as well. And I'd like someone on the left to be like,
00:45:07.460
you know what? You are nuts. And but talking about their own side, it would just be so refreshing.
1.00
00:45:13.480
And actually it would also make the shows more popular and it would, it would give them more
00:45:19.740
relevancy because I think that's what's happening now. The, the more popular thing I can't speak to.
00:45:25.060
Like, I don't, I truly have no idea. I think what makes these shows popular is charisma and then
00:45:30.740
celebrities, but, um, but the, I think Marr does it really well. And I, I watch Marr as religiously
00:45:40.080
as any of these other shows, but, and then Greg Gutfeld has the Fox show. That's apparently very
00:45:46.580
popular and more popular than Colbert and all these other shows. So, so yeah, I don't know what
00:45:54.700
they, none of them are lying. And that's how I feel about Joe. Whenever someone talks about Rogan,
00:46:00.200
I'm like, he is not doing this for attention. He's not, he literally is like, oh, it's the,
00:46:08.740
it's I'm curious. Or he really is just a guy talking, a guy experiencing the world and broadcasting it.
00:46:16.600
And as someone who used to do it in his garage, it's the same thing. You guys said it last week.
00:46:23.700
It's the same thing. There's just more security. He's a lot more that I completely agree with you.
00:46:30.820
You know, we did a three and a half hour conversation this time with Joe. And then we went to see him at
00:46:35.680
the club later that night, hang out in the green room. I mean, what he's talking about on stage is
00:46:40.080
exactly the same stuff he was talking with us in the green room. And it's exactly the same thing that
00:46:44.840
we talked about on the show. It's very authentic to, but people try to read a lot into it. And I,
00:46:51.720
I certainly wasn't saying that I think people are pretending to have opinions that they don't have.
00:46:56.660
It just feels to me, maybe it's the disaffected. Maybe I've got older and become less liberal. I
00:47:02.600
don't know, but it just kind of feels a little bit lacking teeth for me. I, I agree. They also have the,
00:47:09.960
the, the, the, um, the advertiser thing. And again, none of them I've never seen or spoken
00:47:17.500
any of them about. I need to worry about Procter and Gamble, but there is, they are kind of there
00:47:24.080
to get a rating that's, that's, they have to get, or they will lose the job. Um, so, so I now,
00:47:32.860
but having said that, I don't think any of them are, um, steering the wheel toward liberal
00:47:42.700
hegemony. We'll be back with our guests in a minute, but first, do you remember the Canadian
00:47:49.340
trucker protest in 2022 where thousands of Canadians came out to protest COVID restrictions
00:47:54.840
and vaccine mandates? Now, these protests lasted for weeks and the people out on the streets needed
00:48:01.040
funds as any grassroots protest would. So people set up online crowdfunding campaigns,
00:48:07.300
which raised millions of dollars. Incredible. But once the Canadian authorities had started
00:48:13.180
to criticize the crowdfunding platforms, ramping up pressure to close the campaigns, it didn't
00:48:18.820
take long for the biggest crowdfunding platform, the one we've all heard of to completely capitulate
00:48:24.580
and shut the campaigns down. Now, this is where our partners give send go come in. They stepped
00:48:30.620
in when the other platforms backed off and raised millions of dollars for the truckers. When they
00:48:36.080
were criticized and dragged through the Canadian courts, give send go said it respected diverse
00:48:40.880
views and believed hope and freedom are values worth fighting for. This is why we're proud to
00:48:46.820
partner with give send go. So if you need to crowdfund for whatever means the most to you,
00:48:52.460
then don't go to the big tech platforms. We recommend you do it on give send go.
00:48:57.880
Starting a campaign on give send go is easy and intuitive. Go to give send go.com today. That's
00:49:05.160
give send go.com to start raising money for whatever is important to you. And now back to the interview.
00:49:16.140
Yeah, you don't look good. I've never seen you look excited. Are you excited creatively? Because
00:49:23.840
it is a good time for people like you who to play with the tension that comedians always play with.
00:49:29.940
What are you looking to create? Obviously, stand up specials. What things are you thinking about?
00:49:35.600
The only things that I the only thing I'm looking to create is just more material that I my own the
00:49:41.180
only my only like prayer creatively is is is a rich harvest. I just want ideas and I want jokes, but I don't I having done
00:49:53.180
worked on Chappelle show for three years. It's so hard that I don't and I help Trevor out on the Daily Show every
00:50:01.360
once in a while. And it's just I don't like the lifestyle. It's like very much like an office job. So
00:50:11.760
Yeah, like I don't I don't I don't want I also think
00:50:15.380
that stand up is the coolest thing a person can do.
00:50:20.620
I just do like I and that's having done a great TV show. I still
00:50:27.040
that Chappelle show was good because it was so stand up to me.
00:50:33.620
But the idea of having to go to an office 40 weeks a year and like backpack and
00:50:41.120
the job of going and talking is so cool and having no editor other than yourself and the audience
00:51:00.560
hashtag bless no it is it's just an incredibly cool job. It's I think the thing which stand up
00:51:08.420
gives you and you see with a lot of these guys it's a freedom
00:51:11.600
it's you're not answerable to anyone you just go out there you've got your audience
00:51:15.920
you do your material that you believe in that you've worked on and that you will present and then it will
00:51:21.060
it will it will rise or it will fall on its own merits. Yeah and and it's it's uh
00:51:26.800
if it's good it lasts a long time you know there are
00:51:31.800
Bill Burr said to Seinfeld on Comedians in Cars he was like you've ruined so many things
00:51:38.300
for me meaning if like Jerry for instance or Burr is another good example or Patrice O'Neill are guys
0.86
00:51:43.480
that like once you hear something a certain way it changes your perception of that thing
00:51:50.040
forever you know um like Patrice O'Neill has a bunch of sexual harassment jokes that are that are like
00:51:57.980
definitive and it changed it changed my mind for I mean or or it certainly locked my mind in or
00:52:05.640
or Burr has a bunch of those or like or Dave or Chris or just there are people that have
00:52:10.100
can be can make definitive things I just like it better myself I watch pretty much every stand-up
00:52:18.620
special and I watch no sitcoms and I just never really have I just don't enjoy them that much I
00:52:24.240
like sketch shows I like late night and stand-up. Why don't you why don't you like sitcoms you find
00:52:29.600
it contrived? I just find it and I said this to Jerry on Comedians in Cars like it just they just
00:52:34.960
seemed to be like every time I turned on they were worried about a jacket like where's the jacket
00:52:40.760
it was always just like what they're worried about and we got to go over here just it just it doesn't
00:52:45.600
appeal to me yeah you know I don't know it just doesn't like that genre doesn't work very well
00:52:52.100
have you seen Peep Show? No I'm guessing you have yes
00:52:56.740
uh no I Seth Meyers told me about Peep Show for 20 he's been telling me for 20 years about Peep Show
00:53:03.800
genuine I've heard no I believe it British sitcoms are good yes when I see clips I'm like that's
00:53:09.900
fucking funny yeah but I don't I don't like the I like bite-sized things yeah okay which which is
00:53:17.640
absolutely fair enough so who are the comedians for you that influence you Neil that you
0.92
00:53:21.540
looked at and when you were coming up you were like oh my god I would if I could be half as good
00:53:28.000
as them Hicks obviously as as mentioned um Dave Attell Dave Chappelle Chris Rock Brian Regan
00:53:40.280
doesn't get enough credit he's an amazing American comedian um uh and then Burr Patrice
00:53:48.920
I'd say currently like Mulaney I think is excellent um
00:53:54.380
Wanda I think Sarah Sarah Silverman's like been under I like because I kind of grew I met her when
0.96
00:54:03.040
I was 15 or something so I never really and then a couple years ago I was like she's fucking really
00:54:07.140
good um and then like Rodney kind of like the one-liner like Rodney Joan Rivers that's sort of like
0.77
00:54:15.020
did you guys see the Joan Rivers documentary no there's a documentary about her where you watch
00:54:19.300
it and you go oh I will never say a bet like has index card like libraries full of jokes that she's
1.00
00:54:29.460
collected and written for 50 years like people that work hard uh are like that's a different category but
00:54:36.900
it's still it's it's a big uh it means you know it's like it's a hard job like you have to you have
00:54:43.860
to really grind at it so and I'm sure I'm forgetting 15 people but of course you are you always are when
00:54:48.860
you talk about the grids hey watch your tone um and what was Hicks like by the way to work with him
00:54:57.260
I didn't I just met him once so I he was just kind of like after a show the interesting thing about it is
00:55:03.100
I it was at a club in New York and it was uh he was there for the weekend Thursday through Sunday
00:55:07.920
and I went to the Sunday show and it was like two-thirds empty and this is six months before
00:55:15.000
he dies so this thing he was big in the UK but he was still like largely unknown in the states yeah
00:55:22.120
you can't be a prophet in your own homeland as they correct as they say as they say yeah the new
00:55:28.240
it's been a pleasure great we're gonna go totally painless well you know what before we go uh to
00:55:34.420
look inflict some pain yeah why do you watch trigonometry
00:55:38.120
um or listen to it do you watch or listen it's hard to watch
00:55:44.300
um I because I like the I like heterodox ideology um
00:55:57.060
I like hearing the opposite argument for a thing that I've just eaten up
00:56:05.680
like I enjoyed like Douglas Murray books I like seeing somebody I like watching
00:56:14.720
McWhorter bomb it's fun it's meaning I respect it he McWhorter's not but I mean generally Douglas
00:56:23.880
Murray and John the water uh go to the go to a place where they don't bomb but but they're they're
00:56:29.500
not doing themselves any favors um by they're not uh towing the company line and it it feels
00:56:40.000
more honest like a podcast like this it is truly like you're willing to um discuss things that it's
00:56:50.640
you know someone's like that's a controversial topic life's controversial the whole thing is
00:56:57.600
controversial so the fact that I'm supposed to pick a side and never question it or talk about it is
00:57:05.020
insulting so I I enjoy um hearing even in the opposite points I just like that you guys are
00:57:16.940
willing to talk about it and and have people talk about stuff and not and you are disaffected
00:57:22.720
liberals like you are um it's one of you more than the other but but like I I can relate to that
00:57:31.320
point and and I don't mind it's the I don't know who it is Aristotle or somebody like that uh it's the
00:57:38.700
side of a advanced mind that you can entertain two ideas at once I'm I'm butchering it like you guys
00:57:43.960
but um but at least he's dead um so he doesn't have to be here to watch it um uh but uh but I
00:57:54.840
mean we did butchering it yeah the thing is I thought I was going to help out but I actually
00:57:59.580
realized as I was saying that I made the same mistake I I my mistake was slightly smaller yes but
00:58:06.040
the fact that I also made a mistake made it much worse I mean this that's basically the show as well
00:58:11.000
is that I fuck it up he tries to help and then it's just as bad just as bad in a different way
00:58:15.580
yeah um so so I like uh you're I basically feel like you said like do you think we're pretty
00:58:23.000
why why do you watch our podcast because I like hearing opposite points of view and it
00:58:28.800
it feels like a way of thumbing my nose up at uh more entrenched liberals you know I didn't ask
00:58:38.580
you that question although it's going to make a fucking great clip to promote trigonometry yeah
0.68
00:58:42.260
right obviously but I asked you that question because I think you are exactly the sort of person
00:58:49.060
that we're trying to reach when we do what we do which is somebody who understands that the world is
00:58:54.460
complex and we're not it's not just about reaching people like you because you're there without us
00:58:58.800
really but there are lots of people who who maybe they just their feed whatever is they're being fed
00:59:05.420
isn't feeding them a nuanced conversation it's feeding them you know bumper stickers right and
00:59:12.500
all we're trying to do is take the bumper sticker and get some interesting people and go why don't
00:59:18.060
we just zoom zoom out a little bit and go what else what else is there why why is this thing
00:59:23.400
controversial why are people disagreeing about us what because by definition controversial issues are
00:59:29.140
issues on which many people have a different opinion and that's because people's psychology is
00:59:33.840
different their genetics are different their life experiences are different um all sorts of things
00:59:38.680
their cultures are different and that's why they need to be talked about in a sensible way so
00:59:43.220
it you know genuinely gratifying to me to hear you answer that yeah and I don't it's funny me and
00:59:48.860
jimmy carr would send each other maybe like a uh douglas murray clip or or like a jordan peterson clip
00:59:56.700
again jordan peterson i'm still trying to find the controversy i'm like what i still don't understand
01:00:02.120
the problem look at his twitter well yeah i've heard he's got but but uh but uh but um no i agree
01:00:09.860
you know what i mean he's making very good and very important points and um and like yeah how dare
01:00:15.800
he tell boys to make their bed um the uh the but like we would send each other clips and it felt like
01:00:23.420
we were sending each other like red fox records or something or like dirty filthy blue comedy it's like
01:00:31.080
uh it's like blue ideology and it's just a little bit heterodox like i don't know maybe also this
01:00:38.460
it's also i've also accepted a long time ago that like if this many people are conservative there must
01:00:44.940
be something to it like again i can see where i can't just go they're all out of their minds i'm
01:00:53.240
assuming that it comes from a genuine place i love those studies where they'll they'll show
01:00:59.320
like uh they're more psychological studies where like conservative people are more averse to watching
01:01:06.820
people vomit have you seen those things where it's like these weird psychological links between
01:01:11.500
conservatives and liberals and like i do think it's that deep i really do like yeah it is and it's
01:01:17.560
and it's you can't even i think you they'll be able to tell like in utero who's going to be
01:01:22.440
conservative oh i mean you're this one of the interesting things about uh this idea that your
01:01:27.880
political opinions determine whether you are a moral person or not right i mean obviously at the
01:01:33.240
extremes that is true to some extent but it's like 50 percent of your political views are predetermined by
01:01:38.360
your genetics yeah so so going oh you think like this that's because you've chosen to be about
01:01:44.200
no yeah also like you're not we're not choosing almost any of this stuff no yeah it's like you
01:01:50.700
know as as what's uh sam harris doesn't believe like we're we don't make any decisions yeah yeah i
01:01:57.500
mean i have i have some issues i do do but i'm just saying it's like okay i get i see how you came to
01:02:03.080
that yeah no but you're right i mean conservatives they crave order uh they have a much lower disgust
01:02:08.420
threshold the disgust thing drives them a lot more it's why they find certain things they can be much
01:02:14.020
more hard line about things because of that because it's like like that yeah and liberals they crave
01:02:18.740
you know openness and freedom compassion and much of what we're seeing i feel is like compassion but
01:02:25.300
there's been weaponized and it's just gone out of control people and it's also i always see it as
01:02:30.160
like compassion without limits and it's like you know there's gotta be some we need a whenever people
01:02:38.280
bring up immigration i go how many people should we let in what's your number and they never no one
01:02:44.660
ever asked that you just go no no what's the number what's the right amount what to you is the right
01:02:48.920
amount and there's dishonesty on both sides where it's like we can't have any and it's like well then
0.70
01:02:53.160
the fucking economy is going to dry up if we don't have any or we have as many all you can eat
01:02:58.600
um which are they're both they're both bad policies yeah so but i don't i will say there's
0.98
01:03:07.940
i don't think there's very many of me so don't get your hopes up in terms of people that are
0.97
01:03:13.280
i'm a pain in the ass like i've been a pain in the ass that's why we like it right no but i'm saying
0.96
01:03:18.500
that makes me a good comedian but i don't think there's a lot of people that are um uh like when
0.98
01:03:25.040
you guys like you're hoping to get people like me i don't know that there are many again i could
01:03:29.420
be wrong but i i think that there are more people that are hopefully and maybe there will be maybe
01:03:37.420
there won't be but more people willing to question things they're like what is the what why what is
01:03:45.160
like let me watch some jordan peterson and see if there's an issue here and then you watch him and go
01:03:51.300
i don't see an issue whatever so i but i don't think most people are willing to uh and they don't
01:03:59.860
have the time because i don't have a wife or kids so i got fucking endless time um but you know it's
0.94
01:04:06.620
people have people are busy and they are more willing to just go what's the what opinion am i
01:04:10.940
supposed to have fine i'll just put that name tag on and not question it because i don't have my wife's
1.00
01:04:16.200
gonna yell at me but if i watch so many videos i mean it's very true neil what a pleasure final
01:04:21.740
question as always what's the one thing we're not talking about that we really should be bed bugs
01:04:27.080
no i'm kidding um um i it's the i would say it's the the decision making process that we all
01:04:39.600
are going through which is like these are we can have split decisions or have uh mild majorities
01:04:50.400
there i have mild majorities about pretty much everything and i wish people would stop pretending
01:04:56.660
that it's a everything is a hundred percent held belief i just think it's dishonest you're gonna have
01:05:05.480
to leave la in order to get that oh well then i'm then i'm gonna have to live with it because i
01:05:10.180
love i love this city um no yeah i i'm with you but but i think there's it doesn't require a ton of
01:05:18.820
bravery it's just a matter of like yeah or just assume it about most people instead of it it also
01:05:24.660
makes arguing with people more um humane and you're it you don't you don't sort of brand them
01:05:35.240
immediately as like a zealot like i'm not a zealot about too much i can be persuaded to believe
01:05:42.700
anything i kind of believe that though like i i'm not i'm not um i think assuming zealotry from other
01:05:51.700
people is uh and i i you hate to bring up israel but it's a good example of like whoever the last
01:06:00.220
person to talk to me is i believe i'm on their side you know what i mean it was like okay i then i
01:06:05.200
yes it was an occupation uh nope that was wrong and like just going back and forth and and not
01:06:10.040
knowing i don't i have no i don't know for most issues i the more you investigate it the more can
01:06:21.240
the more confused the less convinced you are yeah finally you've gotten my material uh yeah the more
01:06:28.880
the more you investigating the more you investigate something the more confused you become yeah there's a
01:06:34.460
great paul weller lyric which goes the more i know the less i understand we you go i kind of nailed
01:06:40.600
it on that neil you know what i i always say this because it's my job but i really do mean it it's
01:06:47.020
been an absolute pleasure of a conversation yeah i look forward to hearing what our fans want to ask
01:06:51.140
of you on locals which is where we're going to go next so head on over there and we'll continue the