Neal Brennan - Lapsed Liberal
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 7 minutes
Words per Minute
168.0711
Summary
This week, we're joined by comedian and writer Neil Gaffigan to discuss his new show 'The Disaffected Liberal' and why he's a 'disaffected liberal'. We also discuss why he doesn't have a lot of friends on the left, and why it's a good thing.
Transcript
00:00:00.640
You're a disaffected liberal, is that fair to say?
00:00:10.320
We both look liberal and we both look visibly disaffected.
00:00:16.480
There are decisions that I think every human being makes or comes to
00:00:22.240
that are in my internal supreme court a five to four decision.
00:00:27.280
I think that's the thing that people won't acknowledge.
00:00:36.800
And for us to keep doing the incredible work that you all love, we need your support.
00:00:42.720
That's the only way we're going to stay independent and create content
00:00:48.480
There is no other podcast where you'll hear interviews with Nigel Farage one week
00:00:53.120
and the next week you've got Aaron Bastani, the founder of left-wing
00:01:01.280
You know they've been caught lying again and again.
00:01:06.720
The only way to change that is to make a stand and support independent content creators
00:01:12.640
like Trigonometry to produce better and more honest content.
00:01:16.400
We have big plans and we'll shortly be announcing exciting new shows and more
00:01:25.040
When you support us, you also get incredible extra content such as extended interviews
00:01:32.000
with none of those irritating adverts and they'll be released 24 hours early just for you.
00:01:38.560
We'll have exclusive bonus interviews that only you get to hear.
00:01:42.000
Click the link on the podcast description or find the link on your podcast listening app to join us.
00:01:48.640
Support us and help change the way we have conversations and make the world saner.
00:01:53.360
Neil, we interviewed Bill Maher a couple of days ago and one of the things we were saying to him is how
00:01:59.040
much we respect the fact that he sticks to the ethos that we always thought was the ethos of comedy,
00:02:07.280
You don't go, oh, those guys over there that we hate, let's just bang on about how evil they are endlessly.
00:02:14.960
But you actually make fun of both sides and blocks your later special does that incredibly well.
00:02:19.680
Is that something you were conscious of when you were doing that?
00:02:22.080
Is that something that is kind of a thing that you think about or is it just something that comes naturally?
00:02:26.240
I think the jokes come involuntarily and then I don't go, well, I'm going to be losing.
00:02:40.320
I don't want to lose because I've realized something.
00:02:43.680
The older I get, the more I realize like you never have the group anyway, especially liberals.
00:02:49.920
There's no, the goalposts keep moving. So you're, the purity test gets purer and purer.
00:02:56.320
So there's no point in courting them because there's no loyalty.
00:03:02.640
Having said that, I think there is more loyalty on the right, but I don't believe a lot.
00:03:07.280
Like I just don't agree with the, I'm, I'm like, I'm, I'm oriented to the left.
00:03:15.360
You're a disaffected liberal. Is that fair to say?
00:03:17.440
I think that's very extremely fair to say. Uh, yeah.
00:03:29.760
I think the, the, as I stated, there's not a ton of loyalty. There's, it's the,
00:03:35.920
it's all the old arguments, the circular firing squad, the, uh, the,
00:03:41.520
they, they'd rather attack, you know, an impure liberal than, than a, a, just a super far right
00:03:51.280
person. Um, and there's blind spots that on both sides. And I think knowing more liberals than,
00:04:03.680
than conservatives, they just blind to them, you know?
00:04:06.560
Yeah. That's the thing that I find frustrating. And as someone who would call themselves a
00:04:11.440
disaffected liberal as well, that's the thing that I struggle with.
00:04:14.240
You know what's great about you and I, we both look liberal and we both look visibly disaffected.
00:04:23.680
You, well, the blazer's not doing you a ton of.
00:04:27.840
That is true. That is true. It's the centrist blazer. It drags me to the middle.
00:04:34.080
We look like we're waiting for the blur concert to start.
00:04:36.720
Yeah, we do. We do. We just, we, you know, this is, I think this is, you know,
00:04:40.880
what part of it is, Neil, I've got Irish heritage and I've got Latino heritage. And when you've got
00:04:45.280
Irish, you get pale, you get sad. It doesn't matter what you mix it with.
00:04:54.320
But it's interesting what you were saying, because it's the blind spots that I find frustrating.
00:04:59.680
Not that you believe a certain thing, because if you believe a certain thing,
00:05:02.400
then great, believe a certain thing, whatever it is. But it's the blind spots. I'm like,
00:05:08.560
Yeah, it just, it's, defensiveness isn't attractive on anybody and, and especially ideological defensiveness.
00:05:17.760
And, uh, and, and so it's just this, it became, I think in the age of social media,
00:05:23.440
as well, it became more people became more and more intractable in their points of view.
00:05:31.360
And then it became, if they could dunk on you, then it was settled. And it's like, no,
00:05:37.520
this is a fixed fight. This is a fixed fight. It's a, I have a term for it, which is a, uh,
00:05:43.200
Putin karate tournament. You ever see Putin do karate? Seems fixed.
00:05:48.320
Doesn't it? Where he's just flipping people over and just like, so there, the most of the internet
00:05:54.880
is a, is a Putin's karate tournament. And, and, uh, and, but, and then everybody gets in their,
00:06:01.920
their silos and it's just, it, and then it's just a pure diet of, of, of confirmation bias. And
00:06:09.120
it, it's, it's, it's, I feel like it's kind of stopped a little bit, but it was, it was heading
00:06:18.800
hard in one direction for 13 years, probably. Yeah. In my estimation. And I think one of the
00:06:24.960
reasons that I, I'm certainly disaffected is when I was, I don't know how old you are. I'm 40.
00:06:29.520
I don't talk about it. I wouldn't. Um, when I was growing up, it was the religious right
00:06:38.000
who all the comedians that I respected, Carl and Hicks, were making fun of. Yep. And the reason was,
00:06:43.440
those were the people who were saying, can't say that, can't do this, can't have this opinion.
00:06:47.680
Don't, don't use that word. You know, Hicks's last Letterman monologue was censored. It was not
00:06:54.640
published for over a decade, I think, because he made fun of religious people, right? So they
00:06:59.360
were quote unquote, the bad guys for comedians, for people who believe that expression is important
00:07:04.800
for people who believe in their ability to joke and take the piss, as we say, et cetera.
00:07:09.040
And so the reason I'm disaffected is like, then it flipped. And now the people going,
00:07:13.600
you can't say this, you can't do that are like our team. If you, I still think it's,
00:07:17.680
I think, still think it's, I think it's still the religious right. And now the left also,
00:07:22.080
the religious, I don't even think it's, yes, precisely. I have a Hicks observation.
00:07:27.840
I, he, you'll meet no bigger Hicks fan than me. Saw him live, introduced Dave Chappelle to Bill
00:07:34.000
Hicks. Dave said, he's never seen me more nervous. It was like 1992 or three. Um,
00:07:40.960
that joke about, uh, American gladiators, where he says, watch these pituary retards,
00:07:47.840
pituary is not a word. He meant pituitary. And it's a fucking tragedy that he said that in public.
00:07:54.800
He just was misusing a word publicly. One of the smartest communities ever, um,
00:08:00.800
neither here nor there. Uh, the, it is now it's, it's the thing where now, uh, you know,
00:08:08.880
the left is advocating, um, not saying misgendering or you can't misgender people. That's just one
00:08:17.360
example. And then the right's still trying to ban books. So it's both sides, uh, to me that are both
00:08:23.440
still doing, um, all of the things that are easy to make fun of. Hmm. And they are just banning
00:08:31.440
different books. They're both banning different books. You know, when you say banning books,
00:08:36.560
what do you mean? Cause I'm not like the, like the, on the right wanting to not, uh, in Florida,
00:08:42.960
getting rid of all the DEI curriculum and whatever you can call it banning books or you can call it,
00:08:48.160
uh, they don't want that type of stuff published or taught.
00:08:55.200
Well, taught and published are very different things, right? Like banning something for, you know,
00:08:59.920
not reading Mein Kampf to five-year-olds is not banning the book. It's, it's how you decide what
00:09:05.680
the education system teaches people, right? Yeah. So I, I, that's what I always sort of,
00:09:10.400
I'm not sure that they are banning books exactly, but I know what you mean. You know what I mean?
00:09:14.080
There is a, there's a desire for restriction and censorship on, on every side, particularly
00:09:19.520
towards the extremes. Yes. Yeah. I see what you're saying. But, and the thing that also that I find
00:09:25.200
frustrating and worrying actually is a much better word is we've kind of, things have kind of settled
00:09:30.720
down. They've kind of, we, we hit a peak during the Trump years and now they're starting to settle,
00:09:37.440
to settle. People are starting to become less entrenched. People are, there's a modicum of
00:09:41.600
common sense being injected into the discourse. It's less insane. But then I look over the horizon
00:09:48.400
and I see 2024 and I'm going, holy fuck, it's going to get bad again. Heat up your hot takes,
00:09:57.520
because we're going to need them. Uh, I think it will be insane. I think it will be
00:10:04.960
less insane than it's been. Cause I think people thought that there was going to be some promise
00:10:12.720
land of, of, uh, like, we'll just settle these arguments and I'll expend a ton of energy on this,
00:10:20.800
on arguing online and all this stuff. And then we'll all figure it out and we can go back to life
00:10:26.560
as we knew it. And what they realized is the arguments were not settled. And all you can kind of
00:10:31.840
do is like divest yourself a little bit of the intensity. And like, I just got to go on Twitter
00:10:39.200
less or just coming to like personal decisions of like, I, I, you know, people now are saying it,
00:10:46.800
when they say I got into an argument on Twitter, it's with a sense of shame now or a sense of
00:10:52.560
exhaustion. And like, I can't fucking believe it. I did it again. Whereas before it was like,
00:10:57.840
I got into an argument, can I show you? And it was, it was more proud and righteous. And now it's,
00:11:03.840
it seems a little bit more exhausted because we're starting, I think more and more we're
00:11:07.840
starting to understand, Neil, that actually social media isn't good for us. Whereas before,
00:11:12.080
because it was so brand new, I'm holding out hope. Oh, I want it. No. Yeah. Of course it was brand
00:11:16.720
new. We thought there was some bounty awaiting us. If we won that argument, like it would be settled.
00:11:24.320
And it's just not, never going to be. It's like all technology. It has, I mean,
00:11:28.480
social media is fucking brilliant and it's fucking terrible. Yes. That's what it is. And so like
00:11:33.120
many things, you know, we interviewed Tom Bilyeu from Impact Theory yesterday. I don't know if you're
00:11:37.680
familiar with him, but he, he said something that really, first of all, he explained why we started
00:11:42.880
the show, but also just gave a frame for how to think about these things. He was saying, I believe we
00:11:48.160
need a creative tension between different sides on many issues, left and right and whatever else it might be.
00:11:53.840
Yeah. And that's why, you know, talking about the centrist blazer, like that's what I always
00:11:58.320
thought. The left has some good ideas. The right has some good ideas. Uh, they both have some terrible
00:12:03.280
ideas, particularly the extremes. How do we kind of synthesize from different sides? But we have been
00:12:10.080
pushed apart and that center ground where the good stuff happens, that is less and less populated.
00:12:16.720
Now, do you, would you, I, the, the thing that I'm coming here, I was thinking about like,
00:12:23.520
not like I'm like, Neil, you need to decide who you are. This is a once and for all.
00:12:29.200
There are decisions that I think every human being makes or comes to that are
00:12:38.560
in my internal Supreme Court, a five to four decision. There are no unanimous decisions. There
00:12:45.920
are things where I am 53% for 47% against, but I have to vote in favor of, of the 53. And, and I think
00:12:58.640
that's the thing that people won't acknowledge like that, that we are living, especially now
00:13:07.120
society is so transparent. Our lives are so transparent. It was easier before when we just
00:13:13.200
didn't know anything. I'm doing a joke where I'm like, it was better before documentaries. Cause we
00:13:18.800
could say stuff like, yeah, the whale wants to be at sea world. And then you go, then all these
00:13:24.240
documentaries, there's footage of everything. Everyone's trackable. So now we know everyone's
00:13:33.360
hypocrisies, including ourselves. So, and you guys probably know firsthand the more aware you are,
00:13:40.560
or if you grew up in the church or whatever, in Catholic church, like I did, like the more aware
00:13:46.240
people are of their own hypocrisies, the more they'll cover it up and no, no, no, no, no, no,
00:13:49.920
and shove it down. And so I'm kind of comfortable now just saying like, I'm a hypocrite, you know,
00:13:57.920
hypocrite in a lot of ways and I'm happy to make fun of them. And you know, even the, if you get
00:14:06.160
down, like take abortion, for instance, if you get down to the core argument, it's like, when does life
00:14:12.080
begin? That's a pretty fucking big question, huh? So that's like the heartbeat. Okay. How'd you come
00:14:19.520
to that? How does it, once you start asking follow-ups, so many arguments fall apart. And I think
00:14:27.440
prior to social media, uh, and the, and a transparent, basically a transparent society,
00:14:34.000
we were more comfortable just accepting like, yep, I'm pro-choice or I'm pro-life or whatever.
00:14:39.440
And then you get into the specifics of anything and it's, it's, you just go, yeah, I'm, I'm barely,
00:14:46.320
I'm this, but not by a ton. And that's such a great point because I think that's one of the
00:14:52.720
problems of our age is the death of nuance. Like people wanting to pretend very complex,
00:14:58.240
very serious issues are relatively simple. And you're like, come on, man, if it was relatively
00:15:03.360
simple, wouldn't we have solved this? Wouldn't we have gone, oh, we just need to do this and then
00:15:07.280
move on to the next thing? Yeah. I, and, and even, and, and I also, as a comedian,
00:15:13.840
I, I know people with wildly divergent opinions, uh, and always have. And it's, are you funny?
00:15:25.840
Are you nice? Great. It's like, it's, I've been friends with Joe Rogan for 30 years.
00:15:31.760
And, and, and sometimes people on the left would be like, how? And I'm like, cause he's
00:15:37.200
fucking funny and nice and, and like has helped, like did, was nice to me when I was a doorman
00:15:45.440
at a comedy club, had no reason to be other than just like, I like this guy. He likes him, whatever.
00:15:50.320
He was, he did Chappelle's show before it was popular. He, he's had me on his podcast a dozen
00:15:54.720
times. Like I don't, I'm not, I'm, I'm less, uh, apt to want to sort of dismiss or, or, or throw people
00:16:04.720
away because I know that everyone's opinion isn't, maybe he's got a 55, 45 opinion that we disagree.
00:16:14.240
I, it's not a blowout. It's like, that's what, that's where he ended up. And, and I can accept it
00:16:20.640
as a human being who has his own process to accept that other people ran their process.
00:16:27.680
And that's the decision they came to. And also as well, if you're going to be one of those people
00:16:31.760
who ditches people, which is a lovely way of putting it out. I would like to say I have ditched
00:16:35.120
people. I don't want to say like, I've never, I have, and I kind of regret it. Yeah. Why did you,
00:16:41.600
sorry, Francis, I think that's a good follow up. Why did you ditch people and why do you regret it?
00:16:45.480
Because when things are fevered during an election or during a big, you know, a big, uh,
00:16:53.560
Supreme court decision or January six or whatever, you start to feel like these are, uh,
00:17:00.760
like primal life and death existential. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, and you've started to go like,
00:17:07.640
I must, there was also this thing of, of, it felt like, or, or COVID where we had to,
00:17:12.440
to, if you believe this, then you believe all these other things that I can't countenance.
00:17:20.360
I cannot accept that in you. And it's just, it's, I, so I would make decisions again, not a ton.
00:17:28.200
And I can't even think of any specifics, but, but I know I have, so I don't, I want to cover myself.
00:17:32.520
Um, and, and that you, you feel like it's the noble thing to do. You know, it's the noble for my ethics.
00:17:42.120
Meanwhile, my ethics are fucking papers. And why do you regret it?
00:17:48.360
Because it's childish. It's childish. It's just a childish way to, to, to, uh, approach,
00:17:55.640
you know, nothing. Well, not nothing is that important, but, but it's, it's, it's a, it speaks
00:18:04.920
to a lack of maturity on my part. And what it also doesn't acknowledge is how precious friendship is.
00:18:13.240
Yeah. That's a big one. I mean, that's another big one where it's like, like I said about Joe,
00:18:17.000
Joe's not even a, yeah, it's like, cause they're not like,
00:18:21.240
like, it's interesting in this sort of, sort of scarlet letter time of like, ah, you know,
00:18:30.920
the thing that, that people, a value that totally got lost was loyalty. Yeah. The value of
00:18:44.920
like, no, I like this person. They've been kind to me. They've helped me. I can't now just
00:18:50.600
immediately turn my back. Cause, cause, uh, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever small infraction
00:18:57.960
it is. Um, and, and there's also that thing with the, with the me too stuff where it's hard to know
00:19:07.560
how to you, you risk if you defend somebody, uh, or even defend their right to like a fair
00:19:16.760
hearing, right. Then you're anti the other side, you know, whether you're like, I believe this woman,
00:19:26.280
well, are you saying that it's a rush to judgment on about the guy? Okay. And if you say, I stand with
00:19:31.320
the guy's right to, uh, then you're, you're, you're, you hate all women.
00:19:36.360
I mean, we had this with in, um, with the Vax. When he got me too. Yeah, exactly. And I came out
00:19:43.960
and we quashed it. Not guilty. Yes, exactly. I mean, that's not exactly what they say. No,
00:19:48.760
no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, no. The lack of evidence, but, um, but, and also as well,
00:19:55.560
just talking about how precious friendship is, we live in a world now where we're on online more and
00:20:00.920
more and more friendship, especially in real life, just seems to be receding. And what happened to,
00:20:09.480
yeah, I mean, he could look, he's a bit of a dick about this, but he's a great guy.
00:20:13.640
I think computers, meaning I don't think that there's
00:20:20.600
much, who needs friends? It's, it's, I think it was an onion article or somebody where it was,
00:20:26.280
it was, uh, people can't have three minute phone conversations, but can listen to two hour
00:20:34.600
podcasts. That's somehow, no, that's easy, you know, but like just getting on the, when someone
00:20:41.720
calls you there and you're like, what, you know, whereas, and you guys release a podcast,
00:20:46.200
we all know, and we're all waiting, just, we're hitting refresh. Um, but, but seriously,
00:20:50.600
like there, there is less of a in-person, it's not a product people want anymore. Uh, like an
00:20:58.440
in-person relationship is less necessary in the age of, I can get my exact order delivered to my exact
00:21:09.160
location and I don't get challenged in any way. I don't get, uh, I don't get sort of a pre you don't
00:21:19.080
get any human interaction, but one of them, the main ones is I don't get challenged. I don't get
00:21:22.680
inconvenience. I don't have to shower. I don't have to do all the stuff that's a bit of a,
00:21:28.200
a bit of an inconvenience. I think our brains make it like a huge inconvenience. You just imagine it
00:21:32.600
is way worse than it is. So I think the, the, it is, there is a weird thing where it's a lack of,
00:21:42.440
we feel like there's lack of a necessity for friendship.
00:21:44.840
It's interesting you say that because I know that I think podcasts show that the opposite
00:21:51.000
is also true and, but two things can be true at once, right? Uh, we have a mutual friend.
00:21:57.080
We have a mutual friend where like, I disagree with them a lot more than you do probably.
00:22:03.880
And we have such a great time because the, that's interesting to me talking to interesting
00:22:09.640
people who think about things in a complex way who don't agree with me. And we talk for hours
00:22:15.000
and likewise with lots of other people. And I think the reason people enjoy podcasts is,
00:22:19.080
you know, we have, uh, people who watch our show who are like, we watched that episode and then I
00:22:23.320
sat down with my husband and we talked about it for two hours.
00:22:25.640
Yeah. You know, there is something to be said for, uh, I believe a guy named Jonathan Solomon,
00:22:32.120
a comedian in the eighties and nineties to the joke about, uh, Cosmo magazine being the playbook
00:22:39.000
of the enemy. And, and it was just like a good, it's like a good observation. Like women's magazines,
00:22:44.200
like the, what are these, what are these crazy people thinking? Right. Um, there is something to be said
00:22:49.000
for what is the other side thing. It's also fun having a friend that is on the other side,
00:22:58.920
so to speak. And you guys talk shit about your own side with each other and you're like, oh yeah,
00:23:04.520
you're totally right about it. I was like, right. I'm like, what does that person think? So that's
00:23:08.760
enjoyable. And also it can be entertained. It's entertaining. Like, it's just, if somebody's got
00:23:16.760
a, if somebody thinks that Hillary Clinton is a vampire or whatever, and they can show me a good
00:23:23.480
joke about it, I don't think Hillary Clinton's a vampire, but I, if you do, I can see why that's
00:23:29.640
funny. And therefore I can kind of get in. I think it's funny now because I, part of it is,
00:23:34.120
I think your point of view is ridiculous, but this is a good illustration of it. Like I love the Babylon
00:23:38.600
Bee. I don't agree with them politically, but like committee I've done their pocket, like comedically
00:23:43.800
those guys, I send those articles as much, I send those links as much as any other comedy
00:23:51.800
other than The Onion. It's like one and one A in terms of like, it's fucking, look at this joke.
00:23:56.600
This is a fucking good joke. There is, there is something really delicious about
00:24:02.280
someone trashing your side or your beliefs. So I really enjoy like when I was watching blocks
00:24:07.880
as a disaffected liberal, the joke about, you know, you're a conservative, welcome. You go to a group
00:24:13.480
of liberals. We'll see. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. That's the, the, maybe the worst telling of that joke.
00:24:19.320
I know. I was going to say you fucking butchered it. Please, please cut to a clip. I'm begging.
00:24:25.240
I'll clear it with Netflix. I'll call Ted Sarandos myself. A conservative goes to a group of
00:24:31.560
conservatives. They say, welcome. A liberal goes to a group of liberals. They say, we'll see.
00:24:37.240
Yes. And yes. And I've, I also butchered it because I fucked. We'll insert the clip.
00:24:43.080
Now I'm afraid. I'm not even going to tell it because I'm afraid I'll
00:24:45.400
fuck it up. Like it's going to be continuously. You're going to be, you're getting us.
00:24:50.680
Yeah, I know. Neil's comedy is brilliant. It's much better than we've been.
00:24:55.960
The problem with being liberal is there's no amount of liberal that's ever liberal enough.
00:24:59.640
Like if there's a bunch of Republicans standing around and someone comes up and goes,
00:25:02.200
Hey, I'm Republican. They go like, come on in. There's a bunch of liberals standing
00:25:05.480
around and a liberal comes up and goes, Hey, I'm liberal. They're like, we'll see.
00:25:11.000
Yeah, it, there is no, I, I understand, uh, Gavin Newsom joke. Like I get what, if I was not liberal,
00:25:21.480
I would understand how loathsome people find Gavin Newsom or, or Nancy Pelosi or, or, uh, well,
00:25:29.480
who was the corpse? The corpse who finally, no, that's the other corpse.
00:25:33.880
Um, the, uh, yeah, I've been doing a joke that we're either going to get,
00:25:38.360
we're either going to be led by Trump from jail or Biden from hospice.
00:25:43.560
And that's just where we are as a country. Um, yeah. Like I, like admitting that Biden's
00:25:48.600
fucking incredibly, wildly old, you know what I mean? Like admitting that Barbara, is that?
00:25:55.240
No, it wasn't, but who was the lady who just died like a month ago?
00:25:57.560
Oh, fine. Fine. Fine. Yeah. She wouldn't give it up. So, so admitting like I, and not pretending
00:26:04.360
it's in any way, uh, cool. I think you just go, yeah, Biden's a corpse, but I'm going to vote for
00:26:12.120
him. Cause I, I don't care what the president looks like or even how he walks. I need the votes.
00:26:20.200
That's my point of view on it. Hmm. I don't see it as like a leadership position. It's like
00:26:24.600
the optics. I just don't, that just doesn't speak to me. And what does that say now about American
00:26:30.920
society? Because you look at America, you go, you've got all these great thinkers. You've got
00:26:35.560
some of the best colleges in the world. You've got all these amazing people here and you go,
00:26:39.960
that's the best you can give me. Um, yeah, it's, it's funny. Cause I think of like a young,
00:26:49.880
someone under 55 couldn't win cause they have too much shit in public. You know what I mean? Like
00:26:57.440
it's going to have to take that generation, like people over 60 to die. And then it'll be a bunch of
00:27:04.440
candidates with, with dick pics and, uh, controversial old tweets. And it, it'll just
00:27:13.800
have to be like a mutually assured destruction thing where, where it was kind of like when
00:27:17.800
everyone knew Bush did Coke, but there was even with the media that were kind of like,
00:27:23.680
what I think it's going to get to that point. I hope, or, or I don't even, if I hope, I don't
00:27:30.160
know if it's better. I'd say that's where we're going. But we just got to run out of old people
00:27:34.920
first. Kind of. Yeah. Or like people that believe in that, those sort of, or even Obama said he did
00:27:41.400
like, so it just became this thing of like, what's permissible, um, for a candidate. And what does this
00:27:49.020
whole environment do for comedy? Is this like a really good time? Do you feel, I think it's a good
00:27:54.080
time. I don't look all, even all my friends who have gotten canceled are doing arenas. So, so I'm
00:28:02.760
not, I wouldn't cry for Chappelle or Rogan or Tom or any of these, like, or any of these guys are,
00:28:10.560
all these guys are doing incredibly well. And the tension is fun to me. To me, it's fun. It's fun.
00:28:21.240
It's like the, there's more lasers and you kind of have to, you know, get around them in a
00:28:28.100
cleverer way, you know, than, than, uh, just kind of, or, or not, or you can just say whatever you
00:28:37.120
want and deal with the deal there. The backlash seems to be, I think the backlashers realize like,
00:28:43.760
this is useless and they're creating popularity for the people. They're making stars. I suppose the
00:28:50.200
one question I always think about is that's definitely true for you. And if someone wants
00:28:54.640
to try and cancel us, it will be true for us. Is that true for a new comic who's sort of making
00:29:00.640
their way up? I mean, I think Shane Gillis, uh, is a good example of, uh, somebody who used the,
00:29:08.740
uh, cancel his cancellation as a jujitsu. Um, and it's a springboard like, Oh, you never heard of
00:29:19.360
me. And I'm now the guy who did, uh, Chinese, uh, offensive Chinese accent that, that every single
00:29:26.380
human being alive has done. And then Chinese people have done a different accent. Chinese people have
00:29:31.940
done Indian and then everyone has their accent that they secretly do. Um, so, so I don't, I see it
00:29:41.780
as like, I don't worry about the young, the next generation. Cause I don't think that there's much
00:29:46.560
of a, there, I don't think it worked. I just don't think it was like a, I don't, I think it, I don't
00:29:53.740
know if it totally backfired, but it's just, you're just creating, you just was a form of like,
00:30:01.080
you know, star search or something. Well, this is what I say, you know, in terms of cancel culture,
00:30:06.800
what are the way to defeat it is to go, Oh, you try to cancel somebody. Well, they're bigger now,
00:30:11.360
you know? And then eventually, I mean, these people are quite slow, but eventually they'll work
00:30:15.860
out. This isn't what you do. Yeah. I think, well, it hasn't happened in, it hasn't happened since Dave
00:30:21.780
Chappelle with the trans stuff. So I think, and they, they kind of, I don't know if they would,
00:30:29.080
anyone would consider that a success. No, no, I don't think Dave probably does.
00:30:35.340
Right. You go for it. Yeah. I was going to say actually, so could you make the Chappelle show
00:30:41.580
now on TV? By the way, Chappelle show is your, used to be a teacher. Yeah.
00:30:47.880
You really do watch trigonometry. It's going to come up. Do you know he's from Venezuela?
00:30:54.700
Uh, I don't know what the fuck that has to do with it. He says it every other episode.
00:31:00.720
Yeah. I only have two talking points. He's not as big a fan as we thought.
00:31:09.560
We'll be right back. Um, uh, uh, I don't know. It's one of those things where,
00:31:16.940
uh, I don't want to say like we couldn't do it today. Um, I think it would be a bigger pain in the
00:31:28.820
ass because for all of the, as much as I say, like cancel culture doesn't work, I would say it's taxing
00:31:38.700
on a person's spirit. Um, whether you're Dave or Joe or, or, or, or, you know, Shane Ellis or whatever
00:31:47.760
it, it, you get through it, but it is like, fuck, I think it's a bit of like a, um, and that would
00:31:55.640
have been, there was not much of a, the only barometer for like, should we do this was personal.
00:32:03.940
It wasn't, we, there was no worry about so-and-so is going to come down and it was more just like,
00:32:11.420
yeah, do you want to, is that a thing that's worth, is that an idea that's worth promoting?
00:32:17.840
Yeah. You know, you know, there are some comics who say actually they like those lasers now being in
00:32:23.700
place. I agree. That's what I mean. I, I would say I'm one of those comics cause it, it certainly
00:32:28.340
like, you know, uh, separates, I was going to say men from the boys. It feels like you can't say that
00:32:35.520
anymore. And I don't even know why. I don't know why you can't say that anymore, but I don't think
00:32:43.240
you can. I just, it feels bad. Yeah. It's cause we're sitting in LA. Yeah. There you go. That's
00:32:48.700
why, that's why. Do you ever feel like there's, I know you get the sense of lasers and that was so
00:32:53.280
beautiful about blocks is that it felt like a comedian who was at the top of their game,
00:32:56.840
tap dancing around the lasers. But do you ever, cause we've spoken to people about this in
00:33:02.580
liberal comics as well, who say that it kind of influences their writing somewhat. Like they
00:33:09.440
find themselves sensitive, self-censoring as opposed to a more overt, like you can't say that from
00:33:16.600
person over there. I, yeah, it, that's what I mean. It ends up being you, you, even the cancel culture,
00:33:24.780
it does, the specter of it exists. I don't, it's not a ton of stuff that I'm like dying to say.
00:33:34.680
There are some words that are not very acceptable anymore that I, I'm going to be honest with you,
00:33:40.300
I miss. Uh, it wasn't. Like retard. Yeah. We all miss it, man. It's a great word. It's a great word.
00:33:46.460
It's a great, Rogan has a great bit about this, how like people have lost, and this is something I
00:33:50.600
wanted to talk to you about, which is people have lost their ability. Retards. Retards have lost
00:33:57.120
their ability to understand context. And his point is when you've got somebody saying that to a five
00:34:02.760
year old mentally handicapped kid, that's fucking unacceptable. But if you're saying it about a guy
00:34:07.940
in his forties who thinks the earth is flat, it's perfect. Yeah. I, yeah, I would agree with that.
00:34:13.640
Um, so, and that's part of it. That's why I missed it. That's why I miss it. Um, is it's just an
00:34:20.960
effective tool. Yeah. You know, and it's, so you just go, you're, oh, look at this neurodivergent
00:34:27.840
motherfucker. You just have to like, it's Doug, Doug Stanum used to do a bit about where it just moves
00:34:33.600
on because at one point retard was the clean word. It was like the substitute word and they just pie it.
00:34:41.300
They just evolve. Um, and, and so, so I don't, I, I miss it. But again, it's like, all right,
00:34:47.860
I'll get another tool. Yeah. I'll say neurodivergent motherfucker and everyone will hear
00:34:51.540
retard. Do you think the lasers make you better, make you more skilled? Now you're having to kind
00:34:57.860
of bob and weave a little bit? I don't know. I, maybe it's, uh, I will say tension helps comedy. So I,
00:35:06.360
let's say it does make it more, more, it makes it, it, there, there's more tension. So if you can hit
00:35:13.620
it, right. Um, that was the great thing. The jokes and blocks that I liked doing was like,
00:35:19.220
most of my crowd is liberal. So like making fun of abortion and guns and, and the purity tests and
00:35:26.540
all that stuff was, and hearing them laugh was, it was like, okay, so you're, I'm not alone in,
00:35:32.960
in, in recognizing this. So I think the tension does, is useful overall in common. And it also
00:35:41.020
brings, I have a theory that a few people have stolen, but, but there were these pillars of,
00:35:50.700
of, um, of, of wisdom or pillars of just kind of moral or societal pillars. Government.
00:36:00.660
But again, I'm talking about a hundred years ago or six years ago, government, um, clergy and
00:36:15.000
media. And you get to even throw like business in there. And then they all got exposed through
00:36:25.000
various means and fell. And then it became like, you know, who's pretty wise is that George Carlin
00:36:33.460
or that Jon Stewart or that, or, or Dave, or even like Michael Moore at a point or Chris Rock or
00:36:40.800
guys that are, and women that were in Wanda and Sarah and like people that were, that are smart.
00:36:47.560
And so then comedians become the kind of pillars of, uh, they, they're de facto because everybody else
00:36:57.600
fell. So, but, and our job is just to be funny. And like, I don't think Carlin was trying to be wise.
00:37:04.040
He just kind of was, but, but we became the sort of de facto weirdly kind of pillars of wisdom and
00:37:16.560
morality. And I don't think I'm wrong. It's absurd, but I don't, it's absurd, but I think it's also
00:37:23.540
maybe true. Yeah. And that's, that's kind of worrying as well. That is worrying. Cause look,
00:37:29.580
I love comedy, biggest comedy fan. I'm a comedian. I don't know if I want a comedian
00:37:35.820
to have that role in society. Yeah. It's like, I was Greg Fitzsimmons, a buddy of mine comedian.
00:37:43.620
And he's, he's, he started with Joe and he's, so we just talk about like when the white house is
00:37:49.480
getting mad at Joe or CNN is talking about Joe Fitzsimmons helped Joe steal his car stereo back
00:37:56.220
from his ex-girlfriend. Like just, we all have these stories of like Dave Chappelle's a moral
00:38:01.740
leader. And I'm like, I've got stories, but they're all personal story. It's just this weird
00:38:07.660
thing of like them. Okay. It's, it speaks to the same thing about like, what does it say about
00:38:13.960
American politics that, that I'm willing to vote for a corpse? Um, but it's, it, I now having said
00:38:22.120
that, I don't think Joe and Dave are immoral or not, but I don't think they're, yeah, they're human.
00:38:28.120
And I think there is like, uh, there's a learning curve where I remember when, when Jon Stewart was
00:38:34.300
being held up as, uh, like a lot of people were getting the news from him and he was like, I'm on
00:38:40.020
after fucking robots fighting each other. Like, I don't want to be in like puppets making crank phone
00:38:46.520
calls. I don't want to be the arbiter of information and morality, but nobody else stepping
00:38:54.800
up, you know? And I would argue that perhaps in some ways you could argue it's gone too far and
00:39:00.040
certain, like Trevor Noah, for example, he, he does like lectures, right? He, he, what do you mean?
00:39:05.340
In like in the world or in, on the show? On the show. Yes. He will do a whole segment about a very
00:39:10.620
contentious issue that people will see from different sides, depending where they are. There's not much
00:39:15.080
humor in it quite often. And it's kind of like him giving, it's like a political sort
00:39:19.740
of speech. And, and I, I don't necessarily blame him for that. I think there's a demand
00:39:24.380
for that. Yeah. That's kind of, that's what you're saying. We've kind of got to a position
00:39:27.840
where comedians were like thrust into this space. Yeah. It's funny when there's a tragedy,
00:39:34.160
uh, shooting 9-11. I think people remember Letterman's 9-11, post 9-11 monologue and,
00:39:45.080
and John's post 9-11 monologue more than Bush, you know, more, it's like, why am I looking
00:39:54.080
to Seth Meyers and Trevor for leadership? Again, these are guys that I know very well. And I'm
00:40:00.840
like, I don't have like, again, I've got stories and I don't mean that with David and Joey. It's just
00:40:05.140
like, they're very human and they didn't move to New York or LA to like, I'm going to do some
00:40:13.140
moral leadership. Right. Ma, pack my back. You know, it's like, it's just a weird,
00:40:18.740
you know, abdication on the part of all these other institutions.
00:40:25.320
And look, I understand these people are your friends and whatever. So this isn't me trying
00:40:29.620
to get you. No, I don't think you are. No, I'm not. But I've got another question,
00:40:32.560
which is, um, a lot of people, particularly there's a lot of people in the center center
00:40:41.100
right who would look at Trevor and go, Oh, he's not funny. I'm like, I used to watch his
00:40:44.460
standup. He's fucking amazing. Trevor's fucking amazing. Again, like Trevor's really fucking
00:40:48.880
funny. However, if I mainly watch the moral lectures that I see retweeted on Twitter,
00:40:53.920
I would think he's not funny. Sure. And what I wanted to ask you is, and you know,
00:41:00.480
feel free to answer any way you want. I'm not trying to lead you anywhere. I'm just curious
00:41:03.780
as an outside observer watching these late night shows, it feels to me, disagree if you
00:41:10.140
want, that they've lost teeth and they've lost humor. They're not as funny and they're
00:41:17.060
not as biting and they're not as interesting to me. Am I wrong?
00:41:21.180
Yeah. I know what you mean about there. You kind of know what the, uh, what they're going
00:41:27.980
to, the area that they're going to talk about, what they're going to say. It's fairly prescribed.
00:41:33.480
Um, I think it's a, a, a market decision in that it's, it's the type of people who come
00:41:43.720
to the taping. You have to do well. If I'm, if I'm, I would do the daily show sometimes.
00:41:50.740
I wouldn't do that well because they weren't really my people, so to speak. Um, they, so
00:41:58.420
you've got the type of people who wanted to come to set say any, literally any build Mars
00:42:05.120
tapings. Um, like they, they, they come to hear a certain type of thing. Right.
00:42:12.420
Well, here's sorry to interrupt. I want to hear the rest, but here's where I might disagree
00:42:16.120
with what you're about to say, which is, I think Bill, what he's done is he's actually shown
00:42:19.520
leadership. I, what's funny about Bill is he would bomb sometimes. And I saw it as a, uh,
00:42:27.800
a good thing. Meaning like that means you're doing something right. Right.
00:42:32.760
He changed his audience over time. That's what he did. Because he was like, I have principles.
00:42:37.320
I don't like what's happening with COVID. Eventually I don't like this woke shit.
00:42:41.680
Yeah. I'm going to take the audience with me and I'm going to lose some on the way.
00:42:46.320
Yeah. Right. But you're saying in these other shows that that is more difficult.
00:42:50.660
Well, I was going to say Bill would complain if he would get ooze sometimes. So it's like,
00:42:55.340
I always saw it as good that he was getting ooze. I always thought like, dude, that's good that
00:42:59.060
you're not, but that's the thing. Like as comedians, you want to kill. Right. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Of
00:43:03.360
course. Um, some of us can't though. Um, so, uh, so, so I, so it becomes this thing of how am I
00:43:13.940
going to do well on tape? Right. So then you're almost working backward from like, I tried this point
00:43:21.060
of view yesterday. It got like nothing. Right. So then even, or if you do a rehearsal, doesn't go
00:43:27.120
well, then you're like, I can't, I don't want to say this cause I'm just going to eat shit.
00:43:31.400
Right. Um, so you've got to feed that. And then you just get in this feedback loop of you say that
00:43:38.200
it goes viral, feels good. And then you just get into that thing. Now, having said that,
00:43:43.580
knowing all these people, none of them are changing their point of view to get likes or get, um,
00:43:52.740
virality. Like I can tell you, I've known Seth from before he hosted update. I've known Trevor
00:43:58.460
from before he hosted the daily show. Like they're not that they Trevor's very naturally
00:44:05.960
reconciliatory. Um, like it's just his natural. I always did a joke with him. He's like half black,
00:44:12.320
half white, half man, half fish. Like he's just at half, like he is walking reconciliation. So
00:44:18.360
I can understand why that it's frustrating or sort of, eh, kind of makes you roll your eyes a little
00:44:27.020
bit, but I know where they're coming from. It's like Seth, I wrote for Seth on the correspondence
00:44:32.600
dinner. It wasn't, we made fun of, I don't, the tone hasn't changed very much. You know, he was,
00:44:40.680
we were one of the, again, one of the early making fun of Trump's, but, um, so I don't,
00:44:46.140
I don't think the tone, I don't think anyone's gotten the job and changed their tone very much.
00:44:50.080
It's interesting. Yeah. And because you do see all of these guys. And again, as someone who is a
00:44:56.640
disaffected liberal, I go, I would just like someone on the right as well to be on a show
00:45:02.540
and have a little bit more teeth as well. And I'd like someone on the left to be like,
00:45:07.460
you know what? You are nuts. And but talking about their own side, it would just be so refreshing.
00:45:13.480
And actually it would also make the shows more popular and it would, it would give them more
00:45:19.740
relevancy because I think that's what's happening now. The, the more popular thing I can't speak to.
00:45:25.060
Like, I don't, I truly have no idea. I think what makes these shows popular is charisma and then
00:45:30.740
celebrities, but, um, but the, I think Marr does it really well. And I, I watch Marr as religiously
00:45:40.080
as any of these other shows, but, and then Greg Gutfeld has the Fox show. That's apparently very
00:45:46.580
popular and more popular than Colbert and all these other shows. So, so yeah, I don't know what
00:45:54.700
they, none of them are lying. And that's how I feel about Joe. Whenever someone talks about Rogan,
00:46:00.200
I'm like, he is not doing this for attention. He's not, he literally is like, oh, it's the,
00:46:08.740
it's I'm curious. Or he really is just a guy talking, a guy experiencing the world and broadcasting it.
00:46:16.600
And as someone who used to do it in his garage, it's the same thing. You guys said it last week.
00:46:23.700
It's the same thing. There's just more security. He's a lot more that I completely agree with you.
00:46:30.820
You know, we did a three and a half hour conversation this time with Joe. And then we went to see him at
00:46:35.680
the club later that night, hang out in the green room. I mean, what he's talking about on stage is
00:46:40.080
exactly the same stuff he was talking with us in the green room. And it's exactly the same thing that
00:46:44.840
we talked about on the show. It's very authentic to, but people try to read a lot into it. And I,
00:46:51.720
I certainly wasn't saying that I think people are pretending to have opinions that they don't have.
00:46:56.660
It just feels to me, maybe it's the disaffected. Maybe I've got older and become less liberal. I
00:47:02.600
don't know, but it just kind of feels a little bit lacking teeth for me. I, I agree. They also have the,
00:47:09.960
the, the, the, um, the advertiser thing. And again, none of them I've never seen or spoken
00:47:17.500
any of them about. I need to worry about Procter and Gamble, but there is, they are kind of there
00:47:24.080
to get a rating that's, that's, they have to get, or they will lose the job. Um, so, so I now,
00:47:32.860
but having said that, I don't think any of them are, um, steering the wheel toward liberal
00:47:42.700
hegemony. We'll be back with our guests in a minute, but first, do you remember the Canadian
00:47:49.340
trucker protest in 2022 where thousands of Canadians came out to protest COVID restrictions
00:47:54.840
and vaccine mandates? Now, these protests lasted for weeks and the people out on the streets needed
00:48:01.040
funds as any grassroots protest would. So people set up online crowdfunding campaigns,
00:48:07.300
which raised millions of dollars. Incredible. But once the Canadian authorities had started
00:48:13.180
to criticize the crowdfunding platforms, ramping up pressure to close the campaigns, it didn't
00:48:18.820
take long for the biggest crowdfunding platform, the one we've all heard of to completely capitulate
00:48:24.580
and shut the campaigns down. Now, this is where our partners give send go come in. They stepped
00:48:30.620
in when the other platforms backed off and raised millions of dollars for the truckers. When they
00:48:36.080
were criticized and dragged through the Canadian courts, give send go said it respected diverse
00:48:40.880
views and believed hope and freedom are values worth fighting for. This is why we're proud to
00:48:46.820
partner with give send go. So if you need to crowdfund for whatever means the most to you,
00:48:52.460
then don't go to the big tech platforms. We recommend you do it on give send go.
00:48:57.880
Starting a campaign on give send go is easy and intuitive. Go to give send go.com today. That's
00:49:05.160
give send go.com to start raising money for whatever is important to you. And now back to the interview.
00:49:16.140
Yeah, you don't look good. I've never seen you look excited. Are you excited creatively? Because
00:49:23.840
it is a good time for people like you who to play with the tension that comedians always play with.
00:49:29.940
What are you looking to create? Obviously, stand up specials. What things are you thinking about?
00:49:35.600
The only things that I the only thing I'm looking to create is just more material that I my own the
00:49:41.180
only my only like prayer creatively is is is a rich harvest. I just want ideas and I want jokes, but I don't I having done
00:49:53.180
worked on Chappelle show for three years. It's so hard that I don't and I help Trevor out on the Daily Show every
00:50:01.360
once in a while. And it's just I don't like the lifestyle. It's like very much like an office job. So
00:50:11.760
Yeah, like I don't I don't I don't want I also think
00:50:15.380
that stand up is the coolest thing a person can do.
00:50:20.620
I just do like I and that's having done a great TV show. I still
00:50:27.040
that Chappelle show was good because it was so stand up to me.
00:50:33.620
But the idea of having to go to an office 40 weeks a year and like backpack and
00:50:41.120
the job of going and talking is so cool and having no editor other than yourself and the audience
00:51:00.560
hashtag bless no it is it's just an incredibly cool job. It's I think the thing which stand up
00:51:08.420
gives you and you see with a lot of these guys it's a freedom
00:51:11.600
it's you're not answerable to anyone you just go out there you've got your audience
00:51:15.920
you do your material that you believe in that you've worked on and that you will present and then it will
00:51:21.060
it will it will rise or it will fall on its own merits. Yeah and and it's it's uh
00:51:26.800
if it's good it lasts a long time you know there are
00:51:31.800
Bill Burr said to Seinfeld on Comedians in Cars he was like you've ruined so many things
00:51:38.300
for me meaning if like Jerry for instance or Burr is another good example or Patrice O'Neill are guys
00:51:43.480
that like once you hear something a certain way it changes your perception of that thing
00:51:50.040
forever you know um like Patrice O'Neill has a bunch of sexual harassment jokes that are that are like
00:51:57.980
definitive and it changed it changed my mind for I mean or or it certainly locked my mind in or
00:52:05.640
or Burr has a bunch of those or like or Dave or Chris or just there are people that have
00:52:10.100
can be can make definitive things I just like it better myself I watch pretty much every stand-up
00:52:18.620
special and I watch no sitcoms and I just never really have I just don't enjoy them that much I
00:52:24.240
like sketch shows I like late night and stand-up. Why don't you why don't you like sitcoms you find
00:52:29.600
it contrived? I just find it and I said this to Jerry on Comedians in Cars like it just they just
00:52:34.960
seemed to be like every time I turned on they were worried about a jacket like where's the jacket
00:52:40.760
it was always just like what they're worried about and we got to go over here just it just it doesn't
00:52:45.600
appeal to me yeah you know I don't know it just doesn't like that genre doesn't work very well
00:52:52.100
have you seen Peep Show? No I'm guessing you have yes
00:52:56.740
uh no I Seth Meyers told me about Peep Show for 20 he's been telling me for 20 years about Peep Show
00:53:03.800
genuine I've heard no I believe it British sitcoms are good yes when I see clips I'm like that's
00:53:09.900
fucking funny yeah but I don't I don't like the I like bite-sized things yeah okay which which is
00:53:17.640
absolutely fair enough so who are the comedians for you that influence you Neil that you
00:53:21.540
looked at and when you were coming up you were like oh my god I would if I could be half as good
00:53:28.000
as them Hicks obviously as as mentioned um Dave Attell Dave Chappelle Chris Rock Brian Regan
00:53:40.280
doesn't get enough credit he's an amazing American comedian um uh and then Burr Patrice
00:53:48.920
I'd say currently like Mulaney I think is excellent um
00:53:54.380
Wanda I think Sarah Sarah Silverman's like been under I like because I kind of grew I met her when
00:54:03.040
I was 15 or something so I never really and then a couple years ago I was like she's fucking really
00:54:07.140
good um and then like Rodney kind of like the one-liner like Rodney Joan Rivers that's sort of like
00:54:15.020
did you guys see the Joan Rivers documentary no there's a documentary about her where you watch
00:54:19.300
it and you go oh I will never say a bet like has index card like libraries full of jokes that she's
00:54:29.460
collected and written for 50 years like people that work hard uh are like that's a different category but
00:54:36.900
it's still it's it's a big uh it means you know it's like it's a hard job like you have to you have
00:54:43.860
to really grind at it so and I'm sure I'm forgetting 15 people but of course you are you always are when
00:54:48.860
you talk about the grids hey watch your tone um and what was Hicks like by the way to work with him
00:54:57.260
I didn't I just met him once so I he was just kind of like after a show the interesting thing about it is
00:55:03.100
I it was at a club in New York and it was uh he was there for the weekend Thursday through Sunday
00:55:07.920
and I went to the Sunday show and it was like two-thirds empty and this is six months before
00:55:15.000
he dies so this thing he was big in the UK but he was still like largely unknown in the states yeah
00:55:22.120
you can't be a prophet in your own homeland as they correct as they say as they say yeah the new
00:55:28.240
it's been a pleasure great we're gonna go totally painless well you know what before we go uh to
00:55:34.420
look inflict some pain yeah why do you watch trigonometry
00:55:38.120
um or listen to it do you watch or listen it's hard to watch
00:55:44.300
um I because I like the I like heterodox ideology um
00:55:57.060
I like hearing the opposite argument for a thing that I've just eaten up
00:56:05.680
like I enjoyed like Douglas Murray books I like seeing somebody I like watching
00:56:14.720
McWhorter bomb it's fun it's meaning I respect it he McWhorter's not but I mean generally Douglas
00:56:23.880
Murray and John the water uh go to the go to a place where they don't bomb but but they're they're
00:56:29.500
not doing themselves any favors um by they're not uh towing the company line and it it feels
00:56:40.000
more honest like a podcast like this it is truly like you're willing to um discuss things that it's
00:56:50.640
you know someone's like that's a controversial topic life's controversial the whole thing is
00:56:57.600
controversial so the fact that I'm supposed to pick a side and never question it or talk about it is
00:57:05.020
insulting so I I enjoy um hearing even in the opposite points I just like that you guys are
00:57:16.940
willing to talk about it and and have people talk about stuff and not and you are disaffected
00:57:22.720
liberals like you are um it's one of you more than the other but but like I I can relate to that
00:57:31.320
point and and I don't mind it's the I don't know who it is Aristotle or somebody like that uh it's the
00:57:38.700
side of a advanced mind that you can entertain two ideas at once I'm I'm butchering it like you guys
00:57:43.960
but um but at least he's dead um so he doesn't have to be here to watch it um uh but uh but I
00:57:54.840
mean we did butchering it yeah the thing is I thought I was going to help out but I actually
00:57:59.580
realized as I was saying that I made the same mistake I I my mistake was slightly smaller yes but
00:58:06.040
the fact that I also made a mistake made it much worse I mean this that's basically the show as well
00:58:11.000
is that I fuck it up he tries to help and then it's just as bad just as bad in a different way
00:58:15.580
yeah um so so I like uh you're I basically feel like you said like do you think we're pretty
00:58:23.000
why why do you watch our podcast because I like hearing opposite points of view and it
00:58:28.800
it feels like a way of thumbing my nose up at uh more entrenched liberals you know I didn't ask
00:58:38.580
you that question although it's going to make a fucking great clip to promote trigonometry yeah
00:58:42.260
right obviously but I asked you that question because I think you are exactly the sort of person
00:58:49.060
that we're trying to reach when we do what we do which is somebody who understands that the world is
00:58:54.460
complex and we're not it's not just about reaching people like you because you're there without us
00:58:58.800
really but there are lots of people who who maybe they just their feed whatever is they're being fed
00:59:05.420
isn't feeding them a nuanced conversation it's feeding them you know bumper stickers right and
00:59:12.500
all we're trying to do is take the bumper sticker and get some interesting people and go why don't
00:59:18.060
we just zoom zoom out a little bit and go what else what else is there why why is this thing
00:59:23.400
controversial why are people disagreeing about us what because by definition controversial issues are
00:59:29.140
issues on which many people have a different opinion and that's because people's psychology is
00:59:33.840
different their genetics are different their life experiences are different um all sorts of things
00:59:38.680
their cultures are different and that's why they need to be talked about in a sensible way so
00:59:43.220
it you know genuinely gratifying to me to hear you answer that yeah and I don't it's funny me and
00:59:48.860
jimmy carr would send each other maybe like a uh douglas murray clip or or like a jordan peterson clip
00:59:56.700
again jordan peterson i'm still trying to find the controversy i'm like what i still don't understand
01:00:02.120
the problem look at his twitter well yeah i've heard he's got but but uh but uh but um no i agree
01:00:09.860
you know what i mean he's making very good and very important points and um and like yeah how dare
01:00:15.800
he tell boys to make their bed um the uh the but like we would send each other clips and it felt like
01:00:23.420
we were sending each other like red fox records or something or like dirty filthy blue comedy it's like
01:00:31.080
uh it's like blue ideology and it's just a little bit heterodox like i don't know maybe also this
01:00:38.460
it's also i've also accepted a long time ago that like if this many people are conservative there must
01:00:44.940
be something to it like again i can see where i can't just go they're all out of their minds i'm
01:00:53.240
assuming that it comes from a genuine place i love those studies where they'll they'll show
01:00:59.320
like uh they're more psychological studies where like conservative people are more averse to watching
01:01:06.820
people vomit have you seen those things where it's like these weird psychological links between
01:01:11.500
conservatives and liberals and like i do think it's that deep i really do like yeah it is and it's
01:01:17.560
and it's you can't even i think you they'll be able to tell like in utero who's going to be
01:01:22.440
conservative oh i mean you're this one of the interesting things about uh this idea that your
01:01:27.880
political opinions determine whether you are a moral person or not right i mean obviously at the
01:01:33.240
extremes that is true to some extent but it's like 50 percent of your political views are predetermined by
01:01:38.360
your genetics yeah so so going oh you think like this that's because you've chosen to be about
01:01:44.200
no yeah also like you're not we're not choosing almost any of this stuff no yeah it's like you
01:01:50.700
know as as what's uh sam harris doesn't believe like we're we don't make any decisions yeah yeah i
01:01:57.500
mean i have i have some issues i do do but i'm just saying it's like okay i get i see how you came to
01:02:03.080
that yeah no but you're right i mean conservatives they crave order uh they have a much lower disgust
01:02:08.420
threshold the disgust thing drives them a lot more it's why they find certain things they can be much
01:02:14.020
more hard line about things because of that because it's like like that yeah and liberals they crave
01:02:18.740
you know openness and freedom compassion and much of what we're seeing i feel is like compassion but
01:02:25.300
there's been weaponized and it's just gone out of control people and it's also i always see it as
01:02:30.160
like compassion without limits and it's like you know there's gotta be some we need a whenever people
01:02:38.280
bring up immigration i go how many people should we let in what's your number and they never no one
01:02:44.660
ever asked that you just go no no what's the number what's the right amount what to you is the right
01:02:48.920
amount and there's dishonesty on both sides where it's like we can't have any and it's like well then
01:02:53.160
the fucking economy is going to dry up if we don't have any or we have as many all you can eat
01:02:58.600
um which are they're both they're both bad policies yeah so but i don't i will say there's
01:03:07.940
i don't think there's very many of me so don't get your hopes up in terms of people that are
01:03:13.280
i'm a pain in the ass like i've been a pain in the ass that's why we like it right no but i'm saying
01:03:18.500
that makes me a good comedian but i don't think there's a lot of people that are um uh like when
01:03:25.040
you guys like you're hoping to get people like me i don't know that there are many again i could
01:03:29.420
be wrong but i i think that there are more people that are hopefully and maybe there will be maybe
01:03:37.420
there won't be but more people willing to question things they're like what is the what why what is
01:03:45.160
like let me watch some jordan peterson and see if there's an issue here and then you watch him and go
01:03:51.300
i don't see an issue whatever so i but i don't think most people are willing to uh and they don't
01:03:59.860
have the time because i don't have a wife or kids so i got fucking endless time um but you know it's
01:04:06.620
people have people are busy and they are more willing to just go what's the what opinion am i
01:04:10.940
supposed to have fine i'll just put that name tag on and not question it because i don't have my wife's
01:04:16.200
gonna yell at me but if i watch so many videos i mean it's very true neil what a pleasure final
01:04:21.740
question as always what's the one thing we're not talking about that we really should be bed bugs
01:04:27.080
no i'm kidding um um i it's the i would say it's the the decision making process that we all
01:04:39.600
are going through which is like these are we can have split decisions or have uh mild majorities
01:04:50.400
there i have mild majorities about pretty much everything and i wish people would stop pretending
01:04:56.660
that it's a everything is a hundred percent held belief i just think it's dishonest you're gonna have
01:05:05.480
to leave la in order to get that oh well then i'm then i'm gonna have to live with it because i
01:05:10.180
love i love this city um no yeah i i'm with you but but i think there's it doesn't require a ton of
01:05:18.820
bravery it's just a matter of like yeah or just assume it about most people instead of it it also
01:05:24.660
makes arguing with people more um humane and you're it you don't you don't sort of brand them
01:05:35.240
immediately as like a zealot like i'm not a zealot about too much i can be persuaded to believe
01:05:42.700
anything i kind of believe that though like i i'm not i'm not um i think assuming zealotry from other
01:05:51.700
people is uh and i i you hate to bring up israel but it's a good example of like whoever the last
01:06:00.220
person to talk to me is i believe i'm on their side you know what i mean it was like okay i then i
01:06:05.200
yes it was an occupation uh nope that was wrong and like just going back and forth and and not
01:06:10.040
knowing i don't i have no i don't know for most issues i the more you investigate it the more can
01:06:21.240
the more confused the less convinced you are yeah finally you've gotten my material uh yeah the more
01:06:28.880
the more you investigating the more you investigate something the more confused you become yeah there's a
01:06:34.460
great paul weller lyric which goes the more i know the less i understand we you go i kind of nailed
01:06:40.600
it on that neil you know what i i always say this because it's my job but i really do mean it it's
01:06:47.020
been an absolute pleasure of a conversation yeah i look forward to hearing what our fans want to ask
01:06:51.140
of you on locals which is where we're going to go next so head on over there and we'll continue the