TRIGGERnometry - Nigel Farage：＂We're Heading for a Political Revolution＂

00:00:00.840 Never thought I'd say it, but the moment Jeremy Hunt was announced as the next Chancellor,

00:00:08.180 I said it's a globalist coup.

00:00:09.880 And this is language that previously I'd have looked at and thought,

00:00:13.220 well, I'm not going to touch that, I'm not going to go there.

00:00:14.900 But I literally think that is what happened.

00:00:17.640 What is the point of the Conservative Party, Nigel?

00:00:22.880 I've no idea. I've absolutely no idea.

00:00:24.940 I'm sorry, you've got me. It's the first time he's ever out.

00:00:26.560 They represent nothing. Absolutely nothing.

00:00:30.460 The Conservative Party need to be replaced.

00:00:33.260 The new narrative is the next industrial revolution is going to be green technology, green energy.

00:00:39.360 And of course, it's all for the birds.

00:00:41.420 What has been done in the name of climate change has led to one of the biggest transferences of money

00:00:45.940 from the poor to the rich this country has ever seen in history.

00:00:50.140 Central-backed digital currencies would mean that every payment into our accounts or out of our accounts

00:00:57.280 would be monitored, would be controlled.

00:01:01.100 The state would have total supervision of the entirety of our economic activity.

00:01:07.120 I think everything's broken.

00:01:08.560 I don't think anything works here at all.

00:01:09.820 And I think things are going to get a lot, lot worse.

00:01:14.140 Hey Francis, are you worried about inflation?

00:01:27.540 Absolutely, mate.

00:01:28.920 Every time I eat dairy, it smells me right up.

00:01:33.460 That's bloating, not inflation.

00:01:35.460 What's the difference?

00:01:36.880 Neither is good for you, and they both leave you feeling devalued.

00:01:42.120 Bosh.

00:01:42.860 Absolutely atrocious.

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00:02:39.580 Hello, and welcome to Trigonometry.

00:02:42.320 I'm Francis Foster.

00:02:43.520 I'm Constantine Kissin.

00:02:44.600 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:02:49.840 Our brilliant guest is returning for the third time.

00:02:52.160 He needs no introduction whatsoever.

00:02:53.680 Nigel Farage, welcome back to Trigonometry.

00:02:55.060 Good to be back, and great to see how well you're doing.

00:02:57.500 Thank you so much, Nigel.

00:02:58.500 It's good to have you on.

00:02:59.220 How have you been, first of all?

00:03:00.660 Good.

00:03:01.160 I mean, you know, living life outside of leading minor political parties

00:03:06.320 is far, far more desirable.

00:03:08.940 It's a funny thing.

00:03:09.540 People ask me about it all the time.

00:03:10.760 The funny thing is this.

00:03:11.700 You know, what I do, whether it's with GB News or the business stuff I'm doing,

00:03:15.600 if I get it right, people say, well done. 1.00

00:03:17.480 If I get it wrong, people say, you're an idiot. 1.00

00:03:19.340 That's fine. 1.00

00:03:20.240 I'm directly accountable for what I do.

00:03:22.560 Leading UKIP and the Brexit party, you know,

00:03:24.540 it's the sort of mid-Saturday morning phone call from the mail on Sunday.

00:03:29.220 Did you realise that your membership secretary in Sheffield at three o'clock this morning

00:03:33.640 posted a comment on Twitter, and suddenly you're responsible for everybody else?

00:03:38.100 So at the moment, being a bit more of a loner than I've been for many years,

00:03:42.600 I'm enjoying it.

00:03:43.440 And, you know, obviously I've been there with GB News almost since the beginning.

00:03:47.040 It's quite an exciting thing to try and get a new TV channel off the ground in the UK.

00:03:51.640 So I'm happy myself, but not wildly happy about the state the country is in.

00:03:57.240 Well, quite.

00:03:58.100 And, I mean, I can understand the relief.

00:04:00.460 You no longer have people working for you that you've never met who are saying, 0.79

00:04:04.600 you know, gays cause flooding or whatever. 1.00

00:04:08.100 Which, of course, I mean, that one was classic. 0.99

00:04:12.360 That guy.

00:04:13.720 That guy.

00:04:14.600 I mean, but this shows you what you're up against.

00:04:17.040 Taking on the British establishment.

00:04:18.720 That guy had been a conservative councillor for 22 years.

00:04:23.580 Right.

00:04:24.040 Right?

00:04:24.620 And he was a far and brimstone Methodist minister, you know, on a whole range of subjects.

00:04:30.520 And all the while he was a conservative.

00:04:32.160 I mean, he didn't even make the local paper.

00:04:34.620 As soon as he becomes UKIP, it's a national sensation.

00:04:37.920 And that's kind of what I had to put up with.

00:04:39.840 And you do realise, you know, and you guys are doing it with what you're doing with this podcast.

00:04:45.160 When you take on the perceived wisdom, the consensus view of the day, you know, you are automatically written off as being mad and bad.

00:04:53.580 The hit pieces come out and all the rest of it.

00:04:55.340 But, look, you talk about the state of the country, which is much more important than that.

00:04:59.420 And I want to take you back to ancient history, Nigel.

00:05:03.480 The 44 days of the trust premiership.

00:05:05.980 Because I remember, you know, irrespective of the person, some of the stuff that she was saying, I imagine knowing you a little bit would have had you quite excited.

00:05:14.740 I mean, low taxes, pro-business, fracking.

00:05:18.280 A relaxation of IR35 rules, which are killing, you know, small, self-employed men and women acting as contractors, whether they're driving lorries or doing work in the tech sector.

00:05:31.120 No, a lot of it was good thinking.

00:05:33.320 You know, for example, VAT-free shopping.

00:05:36.300 We're losing this business.

00:05:37.660 We're losing it to Paris.

00:05:38.880 We're losing it to Frankfurt.

00:05:40.320 You know, lots of little things there that actually added up and made an awful lot of sense.

00:05:43.580 The most important thing was a change of direction.

00:05:47.100 Now, what Kuateng's budget did, it proposed a very modest half a percent cut in the size of a state.

00:05:54.660 That's all it was.

00:05:55.980 Half a percent cut in the size of a state.

00:05:59.280 And the globalists went absolutely mad, led by the International Monetary Fund, who acted, I think, in the most extraordinary way.

00:06:07.060 And, of course, we saw later on pylons from the White House, from the German chancellorship.

00:06:11.860 And, yeah, 44 days, it was all over.

00:06:15.740 In fact, she lasted exactly the same time as Brian Clough lasted at least all those years ago.

00:06:23.320 And I look, I mean, I think, here's the funny thing.

00:06:27.320 They said these are unfunded tax cuts.

00:06:30.680 And that's the problem the markets have got.

00:06:32.180 And yet, a cap had been put on energy prices that could have been limitless if the price of natural gas had continued to go up.

00:06:40.580 So, yeah, you know, we are, I sort of never thought I'd say it.

00:06:47.480 But the moment Jeremy Hunt was announced as the next chancellor, I said it's a globalist coup.

00:06:53.860 And this is language that previously I'd have looked at and thought, well, I'm not going to touch that.

00:06:59.100 I'm not going to go there.

00:06:59.860 But I literally think that is what happened.

00:07:02.520 This is what I was going to ask you, Nigel, because I think the globalist part of it we can talk about as well.

00:07:07.840 But also from within the country itself, I'm starting to wonder whether we have dynamism in this country.

00:07:14.640 We believe that, like, we seem to have become a country that's forgotten that we have to make money before we can squabble over who gets what.

00:07:21.620 But, like, do we still have that drive and ambition and the desire to build things in this country?

00:07:27.860 Or have we given up?

00:07:28.760 Look, there are lots of people out there that are entrepreneurial, that are hardworking, that despite the tax regime, despite the regulatory regime, will still go out there and do their best.

00:07:40.080 But there's an awful lot of people who are not doing that because they're not being encouraged to do that.

00:07:45.200 They're not seeing the reward for doing that.

00:07:47.060 And we've kind of got into a situation, the pandemic was a very good example, where both of our political parties are saying, the state will look after you.

00:07:59.540 From the moment of conception until death, the state will look after you.

00:08:05.800 And for a lot of people, that's a very comforting message.

00:08:08.580 You know, you won't, you know, don't worry, we'll put you on furlough.

00:08:11.320 Don't worry, we'll compensate you for this, for that, for the other.

00:08:13.700 But, um, and welfarism, you know, welfarism, I'm afraid, is making millions of people lazy. 0.97

00:08:23.900 You know, I'm too fat, I'm too stupid, I'm too lazy, I don't get out of bed in the morning, I smoke drugs, give me money. 0.98

00:08:33.640 I like the fact that he pointed at me. 1.00

00:08:36.180 He lost a lot of ways.

00:08:37.760 It was generic.

00:08:39.620 But no, and that's what we're saying.

00:08:42.560 I don't need to work.

00:08:44.220 The state's going to provide for me.

00:08:47.020 But this is all running up against a series of deadlines.

00:08:51.360 We just cannot go, we can't afford it.

00:08:53.940 We cannot go out, and you get all this guff from the Conservatives about cussing, cussing debt.

00:08:59.540 You know, all they do is cut the deficit a little bit.

00:09:02.080 The deficit still builds.

00:09:03.680 And it's quite a sobering thought.

00:09:04.980 The debt still builds, yeah.

00:09:06.140 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:09:06.680 And that gets ignored.

00:09:07.560 You know, I listen to, you hear Conservative politicians saying things like, oh, we, the Conservative Party, we don't want to leave debts to future generations.

00:09:17.440 We'll have a think about this.

00:09:18.600 When David Cameron stepped through the door of number 10, our accumulated national debt since the Napoleonic War was about 700 billion.

00:09:26.120 It's now 2.5 trillion.

00:09:28.940 And yes, you know, I get it.

00:09:31.340 We've had pandemics, et cetera.

00:09:35.280 But every single year, the size of a national debt gets bigger.

00:09:38.440 You've now, of course, got a rising interest rate environment, meaning, you know, even the repayments on debt are more than double our current defence budget.

00:09:47.520 We've got a national health service.

00:09:49.160 I mean, amazing to think that we're now putting 12% of our GDP into health.

00:09:54.300 12%.

00:09:54.740 Just a handful of years ago, that was 8%.

00:09:57.280 So a 50% increase in the share of the national cake being put into health and fewer people getting treatment or seeing GPs.

00:10:07.060 So something's gone fundamentally wrong with this model.

00:10:10.160 And I think that Kwarteng fully understood that.

00:10:14.100 And Trust may well have been a late convert to all of this.

00:10:17.320 But hey, that's what she stood up and said. 0.87

00:10:19.800 So no, I welcomed, I welcomed much of the budget.

00:10:23.580 I think if there is a criticism, they try to do too much, too quickly, without prior briefing and explanation.

00:10:31.200 There was an element of big bang about the way in which it was done.

00:10:34.640 But you see, I remember the 81 budget.

00:10:37.020 You know, the 81 budget, Mrs. Thatcher was a deeply unpopular prime minister. 1.00

00:10:41.360 Unemployment was climbing fast.

00:10:42.940 Inflation was climbing fast.

00:10:44.720 Things were very, very tough.

00:10:46.500 And that budget, there were 364 economists wrote to the Times to say, you know, this budget is a disaster.

00:10:53.400 But the difference was Thatcher held, she held her position, you know, the ladies not for turning, that was that year of 81, and the back benches held.

00:11:06.000 And what happened here is the back benches wobbled really quite quickly, because a lot of conservative back benches are basically globalists and listen to those big noises that come from the multinationals, from IMF, etc.

00:11:19.640 And as soon as she sat Quarteng, it was over.

00:11:24.140 Quarteng was out, Hunt was in, it was all over.

00:11:27.100 I would much have preferred for her to hold her nerve. 0.98

00:11:30.480 Hold her nerve, the two of them.

00:11:32.160 Stay together, keep making those arguments, and see if the party dare get rid of them.

00:11:38.540 But that didn't happen.

00:11:40.980 I'm going to ask you a quite unfair question, Nigel.

00:11:44.060 I'm used to that.

00:11:46.420 What is the point of the Conservative Party, Nigel?

00:11:48.900 I told you it was a tough one.

00:11:54.260 I've no idea.

00:11:55.560 I've absolutely no idea.

00:11:56.240 I'm sorry, you've got me.

00:11:57.060 It's the first time it's ever happened.

00:11:58.080 I've no idea.

00:11:59.140 No, I mean, look, you know, they are, even PMQs every week, there are back benches, we need more money for this, the state must do more than that.

00:12:06.800 The constant demand.

00:12:08.440 They represent nothing.

00:12:09.980 Absolutely nothing.

00:12:11.060 I mean, here we are.

00:12:12.380 It's quite, for me, this is fascinating.

00:12:13.720 Ten years ago, from 2011 onwards, it was pretty obvious.

00:12:18.420 We had Call Me Dave in number 10.

00:12:21.680 We had the man who's driven the Facebook share price down by 80% as Deputy Prime Minister.

00:12:26.960 I did say to everybody, once he went there, sell your stock.

00:12:29.780 I've been saying it again and again.

00:12:30.860 And you had Miliband running Labour.

00:12:34.600 There were three versions of social democracy.

00:12:38.980 And social democracy is a soft form of socialism that says the state can do things better than you, as an individual, can do them for yourselves.

00:12:47.600 And at the time, you know, my phrase was you can't put a cigarette paper between them.

00:12:52.480 And everyone thinks that the Brexit insurgency was about Europe and immigration.

00:12:57.640 Actually, it was about a whole raft of issues.

00:13:01.560 And it's why UKIP was winning council seats, you know, district, county, seats on the Welsh Assembly, whatever it was,

00:13:08.480 that we were questioning the whole narrative of where the national debate was.

00:13:12.680 But the point about Brexit, and I think most people miss this, after three years of the establishment doing their best to overturn the result,

00:13:23.640 because that's what they did, when I came back with the Brexit party, which is probably my proudest achievement, actually,

00:13:29.860 to launch that thing, and it took off like a rocket, you know, six weeks, we won the election,

00:13:34.980 Mrs. May resigned before the count.

00:13:36.680 I mean, oh joy.

00:13:38.080 I mean, these were great days.

00:13:39.260 What was interesting about that was, what was the slogan I ran on?

00:13:43.120 Change politics for good.

00:13:45.780 It wasn't even about getting the Brexit deal done.

00:13:48.160 It was change politics for good.

00:13:51.140 And there was a belief and a desire that the Brexit vote this, I mean, it was a modern day peasants revolt

00:13:57.240 against the entirety of the establishment.

00:14:00.060 And a belief that it would lead to a new kind of politics.

00:14:03.880 Hasn't done that.

00:14:04.620 In fact, the Tories have been more of a chumocracy, even than they were under Osborne and Cameron.

00:14:11.040 And frankly, you know, Starmer can talk about the AT on school fees or non-DOM status.

00:14:17.520 But really, really, there's nothing to choose between these parties.

00:14:21.460 And if conservatism does represent enterprise, hard work, reward for success, and a small

00:14:31.720 state, then it's dead.

00:14:33.900 It's dead.

00:14:34.800 And I, I mean, my anger, my anger with Johnson and the Conservatives is all too real, because

00:14:43.880 he wouldn't have even been there without me.

00:14:45.780 She'd have stayed on as prime minister, you know, and she couldn't even be challenged under 0.98

00:14:50.320 the party rules for many, you know, for quite a long time, many, many, many, many more months.

00:14:56.120 And then in the end, you know, in that election of 19, we gave Johnson a free pass on the basis

00:15:02.480 that we just had to get Brexit finished, even if it wasn't going to be perfect.

00:15:05.820 So I'm furious with them.

00:15:08.240 I think a very large number of voters out there are furious with them.

00:15:12.400 I suspect if there was an election tomorrow, despite the postal voting register, we'd see

00:15:18.180 the lowest turnout in modern history.

00:15:21.160 What's the bloody point, you know?

00:15:22.820 So I think that we've reached a point where the Conservative Party need to be replaced.

00:15:33.080 You know, Labour and the Lib Dems can merge, and we know we've got that sort of social

00:15:36.080 Democrat centre-left position.

00:15:38.940 But what's on the centre-right at the moment is very, very difficult.

00:15:41.820 And, you know, Richard Tice is leading reform, you know, which was, I mean, I actually changed

00:15:48.660 the name, from Brexit party to reform, and I do feel that fundamental wholesale reform

00:15:53.940 and change, updating of our institutions, of our methods, our systems is vital.

00:15:58.520 And Richard's made good progress.

00:16:00.680 I mean, recent polls have them on 8%, 9% or whatever it is.

00:16:04.520 But, you know, you're taking on a first-past-the-post electoral system with all the inbuilt advantages

00:16:10.900 that it has.

00:16:13.000 So my sort of belief is this.

00:16:16.400 I think Labour will win the next election pretty comfortably.

00:16:21.760 And then we'll get to 2026.

00:16:24.300 It'll be a couple of years in to Labour.

00:16:27.740 People will start to realise they're not offering any solutions whatsoever.

00:16:33.800 We'll continue to see these disincentives for people to set up on their own.

00:16:38.580 Still some will.

00:16:40.900 We'll also hit a point where the Brexit deal, much of it's up for renegotiation.

00:16:44.740 And if there is going to be a moment when a political revolution can be launched, I'm

00:16:54.780 thinking in my head it's about that time.

00:16:57.020 What do you mean by a political revolution, Nigel?

00:16:59.900 Well, with Brexit, I said I'd cause an earthquake in British politics.

00:17:04.140 I did.

00:17:05.200 And the aftershocks are still being felt.

00:17:07.200 No, I mean, if we're going to replace the Conservative Party, that would be a full-on political revolution.

00:17:14.260 A completely new political party with a new political ethos.

00:17:17.360 Look, I'm not saying that it will happen.

00:17:21.160 But I am saying, in response to your question, that it needs to happen.

00:17:25.040 Don't you think that what we really need to do is change first-past-the-post?

00:17:29.520 Yes, of course.

00:17:30.700 And that's all part of the reform agenda.

00:17:31.960 I mean, look, you know, I won two European elections, two, under PR.

00:17:38.640 And yet my one big go at a general election in 2015, four million votes and one seat.

00:17:44.040 I mean, you know, I can't pretend not to be pretty bruised by that.

00:17:49.400 Nigel, coming back to your point about there not being a cigarette paper between the parties,

00:17:53.040 one of the things that I think, you saw my speech at the Oxford Union,

00:17:56.840 and also when I was on Question Time, that I was quite actually stunned by the way the discussion around net zero happens in this country.

00:18:03.860 Because there is no debate.

00:18:04.880 There is no conversation.

00:18:06.600 This is what we must do.

00:18:08.420 You know, like that tends to be how people approach that issue.

00:18:11.900 Well, look.

00:18:12.460 Even Conservatives.

00:18:13.520 God's gone.

00:18:14.500 There's no God anymore.

00:18:15.720 You've got to believe in something.

00:18:16.560 So climate change and saving the planet has almost become a new religion, you know,

00:18:22.860 added to which there are these terrible stories of hellfire and damnation, unless we do the right thing.

00:18:30.500 Yeah, I was at a dinner the other week with sort of former cabinet ministers and some very big global businesses.

00:18:37.980 And conversation was fascinating about, you know, we must get to net zero more quickly.

00:18:42.900 And the huge economic benefit we're going to get from it.

00:18:46.820 This is the new narrative.

00:18:48.280 The new narrative is the next industrial revolution is going to be green technology, green energy.

00:18:54.320 And of course, it's all for the birds.

00:18:56.700 Why is that?

00:18:57.080 Why do you say that?

00:18:58.100 What's wrong with net zero?

00:18:59.200 Explain to people who've never thought about this issue.

00:19:01.520 What is wrong with net zero?

00:19:03.460 Number one, let's think about the big picture.

00:19:06.400 You know, is carbon dioxide leading to global warming and catastrophe and the Maldives disappearing?

00:19:13.540 Possibly.

00:19:14.080 I've no idea.

00:19:15.120 I've absolutely no idea.

00:19:16.940 Any more than you do or anyone does. 0.99

00:19:19.180 What I do know is that when anybody tells you the science is settled, that is utterly moronic.

00:19:25.760 But one of the reasons it's so difficult to get an open debate on this is when Tony Blair put the Broadcasting Act into law in 2001, which set up Ofcom, the regulator, etc.

00:19:39.000 One of the areas over which national broadcasters do not need to provide due impartiality is the effect of CO2 on the environment and climate change.

00:19:53.560 And that is why Sky News can run a whole climate hour.

00:19:57.280 That is why Radio 4 can have programming all day that talks about the sheer certainty that what we are doing is leading to climate change.

00:20:08.060 So that's why we can't have a debate.

00:20:09.920 All right.

00:20:10.300 And really, once you understand that, you begin to see why.

00:20:13.880 Because Blair said the science is settled.

00:20:15.880 Now, let's go back to that question.

00:20:17.900 Even if CO2 levels are leading to an excessive warming of the planet, you have to ask yourself, what difference do we make?

00:20:31.180 And the more you drill into these figures, the more extraordinary it becomes.

00:20:35.260 Indonesia, for example, has 243 coal-fired power stations.

00:20:39.340 That is how they get their electricity.

00:20:41.680 China last year, or as my friend in America says, China.

00:20:45.540 China, China last year, built 80, brand new, mega coal-fired power stations.

00:20:56.520 India, of course, again. 0.99

00:20:58.400 And here's a stat that knocks them for six.

00:21:02.480 I asked that group around the table the other week, the great and the good, the best in our society.

00:21:08.620 I said, guys, anybody here got a clue how much coal the world will burn in 2023?

00:21:16.140 Of course, they all look at you as if you've come from Mars.

00:21:18.560 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:21:19.820 Boris told us at COP26 it was the end of coal.

00:21:23.180 Remember, the end of coal.

00:21:24.980 You know, coal won't be used in the future.

00:21:26.860 Well, the answer is 8 billion tons.

00:21:31.540 8 billion tons of coal will be burned for electricity generation, steelmaking, etc., in the world in 2023.

00:21:39.820 That is a bigger figure than has ever been burned by mankind on the planet.

00:21:44.920 So, actually, the use of fossil fuels around the rest of the world is going up and up and up.

00:21:49.920 And we produce less than 1% of global CO2.

00:21:54.620 So, even if there is a problem, we make no difference to it.

00:21:59.380 So, why then would we put upon ourselves an unnecessary act of self-harm?

00:22:05.080 What is the logic of closing the Redcar steel plant?

00:22:08.860 Happened in 2015.

00:22:10.060 Redcar, up on the northeast coast.

00:22:13.220 Been a steel town for 150 years.

00:22:16.100 The plant closes.

00:22:17.520 2,000 men and women lose their jobs.

00:22:19.560 Economic devastation for that town.

00:22:22.660 But it's okay, because the company that owned the plant announced the next day

00:22:26.240 the production would be moved to India,

00:22:29.140 where the steel would get produced under lower environmental standards.

00:22:32.520 Oh, and then the goods shipped back to the United Kingdom.

00:22:35.140 So, the net effect on carbon dioxide is actually up.

00:22:40.240 So, we can boast.

00:22:40.780 But we do this so we can pretend to be green.

00:22:42.720 So, we can say we've reduced our CO2 output as a country by 44% since 1990.

00:22:47.820 Hooray! 0.97

00:22:48.440 Aren't we absolutely marvellous?

00:22:50.040 So, we make no...

00:22:50.860 No, no.

00:22:51.240 I'm an environmentalist.

00:22:53.100 I'm an environmentalist.

00:22:54.460 I have been all my life.

00:22:56.820 You know, I genuinely worry what we're doing to the oceans, etc.

00:23:00.240 I am an environmentalist.

00:23:01.620 But this is a needless act of self-harm.

00:23:04.820 You know, I mean, take diesel.

00:23:06.820 Take petrol.

00:23:07.800 I mean, up to 40% of the diesel we put in our cars isn't even refined here.

00:23:12.300 It's refined in Russia.

00:23:14.480 And we import it back in.

00:23:16.740 And all we've done under net zero, we've exported manufacturing jobs.

00:23:20.700 Both aluminium smelters, gone.

00:23:22.620 Most of our chemical production, gone.

00:23:25.060 Most of our refining, gone.

00:23:27.600 You know, steelmaking, gone.

00:23:30.540 This stuff still gets made, but in different parts of the world.

00:23:33.820 And then on energy, where we could be self-sufficient,

00:23:36.620 and we're going to need fossil fuels for the next three decades,

00:23:40.760 at least, in some form.

00:23:43.520 You know, we will need coal, albeit in small quantities,

00:23:46.980 although when the wind doesn't blow,

00:23:48.580 we might start firing up a few coal-fired power stations.

00:23:52.000 So, number one, we make no difference.

00:23:53.560 Number two, we're putting upon ourselves an enormous act of self-harm.

00:23:56.500 Number three, what has been done in the name of climate change

00:23:59.700 has led to one of the biggest transferences of money

00:24:01.980 from the poor to the rich this country has ever seen in history.

00:24:05.920 Tell us more about that. How?

00:24:07.320 What we've done is we've loaded up people's electricity bills with subsidies.

00:24:11.880 Up to 25% of your electricity bill

00:24:13.940 has been for renewable obligation certificates, etc.,

00:24:17.800 which means, basically, we've given billions

00:24:21.380 to large wind farm companies,

00:24:24.240 to Chinese manufacturers of solar panels, of wind turbines.

00:24:29.420 It's ordinary folk and small businesses

00:24:31.040 that have paid the cost for this.

00:24:32.600 It's been going on for over 20 years.

00:24:34.140 There's been an absolute conspiracy of silence in Westminster about it.

00:24:38.040 And now, because of the cost-of-living crisis,

00:24:40.500 people are beginning to ask questions about, you know,

00:24:43.320 what do you mean I need a heat pump?

00:24:45.580 It's going to cost me seven grand

00:24:47.040 to put a heat pump on the side of my house.

00:24:49.880 You know, electric vehicles are very expensive.

00:24:51.760 It's now, of course, more expensive

00:24:53.160 to drive an electric car up the motorway

00:24:55.620 than it is a car on unleaded.

00:24:57.600 So now questions are being asked.

00:25:00.880 Now the new narrative is that, actually,

00:25:03.400 this will all make us so much richer and so much better.

00:25:06.100 There'll be so many more jobs.

00:25:07.160 Well, yeah, there are jobs.

00:25:08.200 There are jobs on the wind farms.

00:25:09.520 There are jobs in green technology.

00:25:11.820 But probably we're losing three to four jobs

00:25:14.980 in traditional manufacturing

00:25:16.660 as opposed to what we're gaining in green.

00:25:19.820 This is an act of self-harm.

00:25:21.760 It's hurting the poor.

00:25:23.000 It's making no difference

00:25:24.360 to the global environment whatsoever.

00:25:26.500 And yet it is pursued with a fanaticism by politicians

00:25:30.360 and a media that don't need to ask the questions.

00:25:34.520 Hey, Francis, do you hate monopolies?

00:25:36.960 Of course I do.

00:25:38.120 Every year, Christmas is ruined because of it.

00:25:41.380 What?

00:25:41.600 Every year, the entire family gets around the table 0.96

00:25:44.460 and we play that ridiculous game 0.82

00:25:46.340 and the entire day is ruined. 0.93

00:25:48.060 I'll never forgive my Uncle Gerald

00:25:49.820 for bankrupting me in Christmas 07.

00:25:52.300 It was a disgrace

00:25:53.400 and he was blatantly stealing from the bank.

00:25:55.780 All my life, people have been taking advantage of me.

00:25:58.600 Francis, I'm talking about monopolies

00:26:01.060 as in companies that have exclusive possession

00:26:03.420 or control of a commodity or service.

00:26:05.880 Internet service providers operate like monopolies

00:26:08.740 in the regions they serve.

00:26:10.160 Even worse, many ISPs log your internet activity

00:26:13.140 and sell that data onto other big companies or advertisers.

00:26:16.680 It was so obvious what he was doing. 0.83

00:26:18.400 The man's always been a snake. 0.52

00:26:20.000 Focus.

00:26:20.400 ExpressVPN is a simple app for your computer or smartphone

00:26:24.460 that encrypts your network data

00:26:26.340 and tunnels it through a secure VPN server

00:26:28.800 so that your provider can't see any of your activity.

00:26:32.340 He's got that look of a man that lives in a tunnel,

00:26:34.960 like weird jelly baby-like skin.

00:26:37.320 We recommend ExpressVPN as the best way

00:26:39.860 to hide your online activity from your ISP.

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00:26:44.540 and you're protected.

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00:26:47.780 to protect ourselves and our data.

00:26:50.340 Nothing could protect me from Uncle Gerald 0.99

00:26:52.380 and his thieving little rat hands. 0.98

00:26:54.300 And ExpressVPN doesn't slow your connection. 0.98

00:26:56.980 That's why ExpressVPN is rated number one

00:26:59.240 by CNET, Wired, TechRadar, and countless others.

00:27:02.060 And he has his smell about him.

00:27:03.600 You never trust anyone who looks like they live in a bin. 1.00

00:27:06.620 Francis, can you please say something about ExpressVPN?

00:27:09.260 This is meant to be an ad, not a therapy session.

00:27:11.640 Oh, yeah.

00:27:12.420 It's genuinely great,

00:27:13.680 and I use it all the time on my phone especially.

00:27:16.080 Super quick and easy to use.

00:27:17.960 Visit expressvpn.com forward slash trigger.

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00:27:23.760 and you'll get three extra months for free.

00:27:26.020 That's expressvpn.com slash trigger to learn more.

00:27:31.820 Nigel, why are we continuing to do this

00:27:34.140 when the fact is, is our economy is in the knackers' yard?

00:27:37.000 Well, according to the IMF,

00:27:38.920 we're the only economy, major economy,

00:27:40.700 that's not going to grow this year.

00:27:42.240 Yeah, I mean, that's a funny one in a sense,

00:27:43.620 because actually we've grown,

00:27:44.840 we've actually grown more

00:27:46.480 than the other G7 countries since Brexit.

00:27:49.020 You won't hear that on the news.

00:27:51.640 The IMF are taking a very bearish view,

00:27:54.340 and I think they're right.

00:27:58.300 I think the tax burden and the former,

00:28:00.600 the forward projections of the tax burden

00:28:06.140 are a massive problem.

00:28:07.900 You just think about this.

00:28:08.820 You know, we're sitting here now in February,

00:28:10.720 having this chat.

00:28:12.780 In eight weeks' time,

00:28:15.320 corporation tax, business tax,

00:28:17.320 is going to rise by 30%.

00:28:19.140 30% increase in corporation tax.

00:28:22.640 Who pays corporation tax?

00:28:24.020 The local laundrette.

00:28:25.380 Small businesses.

00:28:26.100 They didn't just jump multinationals.

00:28:27.380 In fact, most of them managed to avoid paying any at all.

00:28:30.380 So you've got a 30% increase in corporation tax.

00:28:34.800 You've got a 1.25% increase in dividend income,

00:28:38.200 which is how most people that run limited companies

00:28:40.080 pay themselves.

00:28:41.580 A total refusal to revisit these IR35 rules,

00:28:46.160 which basically means, you know,

00:28:48.300 say you're running your own business,

00:28:50.740 you know, and say I'm a part-time driver,

00:28:55.960 and I'm doing work for you.

00:28:59.380 I want to give you a bill,

00:29:01.120 and you will pay that bill to me with VAT,

00:29:03.960 if I'm VAT registered.

00:29:07.180 Against what you pay me,

00:29:08.460 I'm allowed to put the allowable costs

00:29:10.060 of my vehicle against what I'm doing.

00:29:14.080 But the new legislation says,

00:29:15.780 ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:29:19.040 Nigel, you actually earn nearly all of your income

00:29:23.100 from Constantine.

00:29:24.980 Therefore, you should actually be on PAYE.

00:29:27.860 And if it's proven that you weren't

00:29:29.440 generally self-employed,

00:29:30.660 we can come after you for the next seven years.

00:29:33.960 So employers are saying,

00:29:35.600 all we want are people on PAYE.

00:29:39.100 An awful lot of people are saying,

00:29:40.060 you know what, I can't be bothered.

00:29:41.360 I'll retire early.

00:29:42.740 I won't bother.

00:29:43.740 So these are just little examples

00:29:45.080 of the wrong direction we're going in.

00:29:48.580 On direct taxes,

00:29:50.000 what the IMF have picked up on is this.

00:29:51.540 When the 40p top rate was established in 1988,

00:29:55.200 that was top rate tax.

00:29:56.980 1.5 million people in Britain paid top rate tax.

00:30:00.500 With the current proposals,

00:30:01.860 8 million will be paying 40p or more.

00:30:05.380 So what was considered top rate tax

00:30:07.120 is now actually a pretty standard tax

00:30:09.620 for middle income people.

00:30:13.020 So the IMF are right to be pessimistic

00:30:16.680 about the way the UK economy is going.

00:30:18.800 I suspect it won't be quite as bad

00:30:20.820 as they think it is

00:30:22.420 because there is still entrepreneurial flair.

00:30:24.340 But we got the model all wrong.

00:30:26.100 The incentives have completely gone.

00:30:28.680 Hunt is crushing that.

00:30:31.380 And I'm seeing people leaving the country.

00:30:37.320 People are leaving the country.

00:30:40.520 It's quite interesting.

00:30:42.140 I was looking at a global map of this yesterday.

00:30:44.140 Unsurprisingly, people are leaving Ukraine.

00:30:48.040 High net worth individuals are leaving the UK.

00:30:50.960 They're going.

00:30:51.580 Dubai is picking up a huge number of them.

00:30:54.920 And for the smaller, younger entrepreneurs

00:30:56.360 who are not yet high net worth individuals

00:30:58.720 but want to be,

00:31:00.180 they're going to Lisbon.

00:31:01.360 They're going to Milano.

00:31:02.760 There is huge tax competition right across Europe.

00:31:05.840 We have got this completely and utterly wrong.

00:31:09.040 Nigel, the counter-argument to that

00:31:12.880 is you look at the infrastructure in our country

00:31:15.220 and it's crumbling.

00:31:16.620 The NHS, as much as it pains me to say,

00:31:19.740 is no longer fit for purpose.

00:31:21.200 I think we can agree.

00:31:22.720 So what do we do then?

00:31:24.720 Well, we don't stick with the same model

00:31:26.000 and keep pumping in more money

00:31:27.100 because it's clearly not working

00:31:29.400 given the numbers I gave you earlier in this chat.

00:31:32.600 No, we need a fundamental rethink

00:31:33.760 on how we provide public services.

00:31:36.520 I think there is a...

00:31:37.040 But Nigel, rethink is just a word.

00:31:39.380 What do you mean?

00:31:40.260 Well, we have to examine

00:31:41.220 whether going to an insurance-based system

00:31:42.960 might give us a better bang for buck. 0.95

00:31:45.440 This isn't working.

00:31:47.380 This is not working.

00:31:49.620 And, you know, far from penalising people

00:31:54.480 who want to opt for private education

00:31:56.140 or private health,

00:31:58.060 why not encourage it?

00:31:59.820 Why not actively encourage people

00:32:01.440 to opt out of the state system

00:32:03.040 to leave more for everybody else?

00:32:04.940 I don't think the current model

00:32:06.360 of the NHS is going to survive

00:32:07.400 the way that it is.

00:32:08.740 I think there are examples in France,

00:32:12.280 for example, of how they do things,

00:32:14.960 which is much more of an insurance model

00:32:16.780 in terms of how they think.

00:32:18.440 We've got to change it.

00:32:19.700 It isn't working.

00:32:21.120 And with the population crisis that we have,

00:32:24.260 the massive population explosion that we have,

00:32:26.540 it just isn't going to work.

00:32:27.700 So, Nigel, whenever anyone,

00:32:30.200 particularly me,

00:32:31.080 hears the words insurance model,

00:32:34.400 we instantly think of the United States of America,

00:32:36.920 which, to me, isn't a good option either,

00:32:40.160 to be brutally honest.

00:32:41.000 No, I mean, healthcare in America

00:32:42.080 is very, very good.

00:32:43.840 Provided you can afford it.

00:32:45.080 But healthcare, well, even if you can't afford it,

00:32:47.140 you will get looked after in America.

00:32:48.580 You know, you are not left to die on the street,

00:32:50.300 all right?

00:32:51.120 But the problem with healthcare in America, 0.88

00:32:54.000 it's damned expensive. 0.93

00:32:55.740 It's more expensive than it is here. 0.88

00:32:57.420 Why?

00:32:58.420 Well, because it's such a litigious society. 1.00

00:33:01.360 But, you know, any slight misdiagnosis,

00:33:03.660 you can start to sue.

00:33:05.120 So, yeah, I get the point that you're making,

00:33:08.180 but I didn't cite America.

00:33:09.340 I cited France.

00:33:10.780 I cited France.

00:33:12.260 You were getting much...

00:33:13.820 And if you look across the board,

00:33:15.800 you look at, say, cancer, heart attacks, strokes,

00:33:19.340 the big three,

00:33:20.540 if you look at those

00:33:21.800 and look at the French recovery rates

00:33:25.380 and compare them to the UK's,

00:33:26.820 there is no comparison.

00:33:29.060 So we need to learn some lessons.

00:33:30.400 So what does the French model look like? 0.72

00:33:32.740 Well, the French model, of course, 0.98

00:33:34.000 there is some form of payment.

00:33:35.440 You know, you book a GP appointment in France,

00:33:37.300 don't turn up, well, you get fined.

00:33:39.480 There are little things like that that the French do. 1.00

00:33:42.540 But the way the French health providers work

00:33:45.180 with commercial companies,

00:33:47.060 it's a much closer relationship.

00:33:48.600 Now, we have some of that.

00:33:49.580 But the problem here, of course,

00:33:51.000 is as soon as the word privatised comes,

00:33:53.100 you know, everyone throws their hands up in horror.

00:33:57.420 What is interesting,

00:33:59.200 and they may not do anything about it,

00:34:01.240 but what is interesting

00:34:02.560 is to see the way the Labour Party

00:34:05.420 are now positioning themselves.

00:34:07.320 So Rishi says,

00:34:08.000 the NHS has got a few challenges,

00:34:09.960 but it's okay.

00:34:11.520 And we're going to give it more and more money.

00:34:14.780 And Wes Streeting,

00:34:16.160 who's the Labour spokesman,

00:34:17.340 who's I think quite a bright lad,

00:34:19.060 says, no, no, no, no,

00:34:19.980 this isn't working.

00:34:21.660 We need a fundamental rethink.

00:34:23.360 So, you know,

00:34:24.460 whether he delivers on that

00:34:25.780 with genuine radical thinking

00:34:27.560 remains to be seen.

00:34:29.060 But the reversal of positions here

00:34:30.740 we're seeing in politics,

00:34:31.700 I mean, look,

00:34:32.420 they're all the same,

00:34:33.100 as we said earlier,

00:34:33.740 but you've got Labour saying

00:34:36.020 it's broken,

00:34:37.320 it isn't working.

00:34:39.680 You've got Labour

00:34:40.740 arguing that they might cut taxes

00:34:43.160 at some point in the future

00:34:45.240 and be more pro-business.

00:34:47.380 I mean, it's all over the place.

00:34:48.940 It's all over the place.

00:34:49.840 I suspect that a Labour,

00:34:51.640 as I said earlier,

00:34:53.040 I suspect that two years

00:34:54.100 into a Labour government

00:34:54.860 will realise they've got

00:34:55.580 nothing to offer whatsoever.

00:34:57.240 Nigel, am I misremembering

00:34:58.760 or did you briefly mention this

00:35:02.660 during your pro-Brexit campaign?

00:35:05.140 I remember you saying something

00:35:06.980 about an insurance-based model

00:35:08.580 and the backlash you got,

00:35:10.340 I don't remember you ever

00:35:11.280 saying anything about it again.

00:35:13.000 So when you talk about

00:35:14.220 net zero being a religion,

00:35:15.440 I mean, the NHS

00:35:16.140 is literally God himself, isn't it?

00:35:18.360 The NHS was.

00:35:19.120 I think that's changing.

00:35:20.520 I think there's a significant

00:35:21.260 number of people now

00:35:22.320 who are realising,

00:35:23.220 you know,

00:35:23.320 I can't get a GP appointment.

00:35:25.560 You know,

00:35:25.680 that's the most basic level,

00:35:26.860 isn't it,

00:35:27.120 of the NHS.

00:35:28.400 So I think you'll see

00:35:29.480 the opinion polls,

00:35:30.340 there is now a shift.

00:35:31.860 Yeah, I mean,

00:35:32.660 I think it was Nigel Lawson

00:35:33.900 that once said back in the 80s

00:35:35.640 that the NHS

00:35:36.960 was the nearest thing

00:35:37.800 to an official state religion

00:35:38.920 that we had.

00:35:40.160 That is changing.

00:35:41.860 That is changing.

00:35:42.780 Net zero, interestingly,

00:35:43.900 is changing.

00:35:45.000 Because if you poll the country,

00:35:47.360 a significant number of people,

00:35:49.600 some think it's just

00:35:50.200 a load of baloney,

00:35:52.000 but a lot of others

00:35:52.800 who've clicked

00:35:53.540 that actually,

00:35:55.400 you know,

00:35:56.440 this isn't doing them any good,

00:35:57.600 it's going to cost them a fortune.

00:35:59.040 That's why I said earlier

00:35:59.960 that change politics for good,

00:36:02.400 the big hope of the Brexiteers,

00:36:04.240 the opposite has happened.

00:36:05.720 I actually think Westminster

00:36:06.880 is now more disconnected

00:36:08.160 from the country

00:36:08.880 on a wider range of issues

00:36:11.020 than it was in the run-up

00:36:12.640 to the Brexit vote,

00:36:13.560 which is why I hope

00:36:14.380 at some point

00:36:15.600 this political revolution

00:36:16.540 can happen.

00:36:17.680 Nigel, why is that?

00:36:18.580 Why are politicians

00:36:19.440 more disconnected than ever

00:36:20.920 from the electorate?

00:36:21.880 And I agree with you,

00:36:22.600 by the way.

00:36:22.980 The influence is upon them.

00:36:25.820 You know,

00:36:26.020 Westminster is a,

00:36:27.700 just as Brussels was

00:36:28.720 when I was there.

00:36:30.040 These are very small villages.

00:36:34.020 There are huge influences

00:36:36.520 on the individuals.

00:36:39.100 And it happens

00:36:39.800 in all sorts of subtle ways.

00:36:42.000 It's the dinner

00:36:42.780 you're invited to.

00:36:43.960 It's the person you meet

00:36:44.880 at the cocktail party.

00:36:45.920 It's the basic desire

00:36:48.000 of normal human beings

00:36:49.060 to want to be accepted.

00:36:50.960 Want to be accepted.

00:36:52.820 When I went to Brussels

00:36:53.600 in 99,

00:36:56.820 there were quite a lot.

00:36:57.800 Labour lost

00:36:58.860 a shed load of seats.

00:37:01.000 And there were three of us

00:37:01.960 from UKIP.

00:37:02.420 But there were quite a lot

00:37:02.800 of new conservative

00:37:03.740 MEPs elected.

00:37:06.700 Some were newbies.

00:37:08.420 Others had been MPs before

00:37:09.800 and were retreads,

00:37:10.640 as I called them.

00:37:11.500 They never seemed like that,

00:37:12.920 but never mind.

00:37:14.160 And the number of them

00:37:15.080 that turned up

00:37:15.800 saying,

00:37:17.120 you know,

00:37:17.280 I'm going to do this.

00:37:18.320 I'm going to do that.

00:37:19.980 I'm going to fight

00:37:20.720 against the system.

00:37:21.560 And I remember one of them,

00:37:23.980 excuse me,

00:37:25.400 I remember one of them,

00:37:26.240 Neil Parrish.

00:37:27.780 Neil Parrish. 0.99

00:37:28.520 He of tractor porn. 0.95

00:37:33.520 And Parrish on day one 0.97

00:37:35.040 was sounding like me.

00:37:37.520 We're going to fight this

00:37:38.620 and do this

00:37:39.280 and do that.

00:37:41.440 A couple of years in,

00:37:43.020 I saw him as we were

00:37:44.080 walking into the parliament

00:37:44.920 one day.

00:37:46.940 Oh, you've changed the tune,

00:37:47.980 Neil, haven't you?

00:37:49.020 He was a dairy farmer before.

00:37:51.000 I said,

00:37:51.180 I suppose life here

00:37:51.880 is a bit better

00:37:52.280 than getting up at 4am

00:37:53.240 to milk the cows really,

00:37:54.320 isn't it?

00:37:55.180 Oh, no, no, dear boy,

00:37:56.300 I've just become

00:37:56.880 more pragmatic.

00:38:00.720 And the same happens

00:38:01.880 in Westminster.

00:38:03.460 It's about being

00:38:04.300 more pragmatic.

00:38:05.300 It's about wanting

00:38:05.840 to be liked

00:38:06.440 by your fellow group

00:38:07.300 of human beings.

00:38:07.900 Don't underestimate that.

00:38:09.980 Very difficult

00:38:10.680 for people

00:38:11.180 to stand alone.

00:38:13.960 They all thought

00:38:14.640 they'd turn me

00:38:15.320 in Brussels.

00:38:16.440 I mean,

00:38:16.640 they didn't.

00:38:17.580 They didn't

00:38:18.040 because I was there

00:38:18.600 for a reason

00:38:19.140 and I knew

00:38:19.540 exactly what it was.

00:38:21.360 So, yeah,

00:38:22.060 you finish up

00:38:22.640 with everybody

00:38:23.060 agreeing on virtually

00:38:23.860 everything,

00:38:24.600 nobody wanting

00:38:25.060 to cause offence

00:38:25.980 in the modern woke world

00:38:27.280 in which we live,

00:38:29.100 a media that reinforces

00:38:31.420 all of that,

00:38:33.960 a social media,

00:38:36.160 which if you step outside

00:38:37.400 the accepted boundaries

00:38:39.020 of Twitter,

00:38:39.520 maybe Musk will change that,

00:38:40.580 but, you know,

00:38:41.300 gives you a hard time.

00:38:43.320 And I suppose,

00:38:43.800 really, in a word,

00:38:45.500 cavernous.

00:38:46.680 Because most people

00:38:47.620 in politics,

00:38:48.860 they're there

00:38:49.760 for a career

00:38:50.420 more than they're there

00:38:52.660 for what they can

00:38:53.580 actually achieve.

00:38:55.200 And it's, yeah,

00:38:56.360 it's a total

00:38:57.480 and utter disconnect.

00:38:59.000 Whether we can ever

00:38:59.840 break that

00:39:00.420 under the first-past-the-post

00:39:01.680 system

00:39:02.080 remains to be seen.

00:39:04.880 It's such a good point

00:39:06.040 because you look at

00:39:06.880 all the different politicians

00:39:08.320 and they all have

00:39:09.640 the same background.

00:39:10.580 They all have,

00:39:11.440 they all came to it

00:39:12.460 the same way.

00:39:13.480 Yeah, I remember

00:39:14.060 even back in the 90s

00:39:15.300 and the 80s,

00:39:16.260 Labour,

00:39:16.820 ex-trade unions,

00:39:17.900 ex-miners,

00:39:19.200 conservatives,

00:39:19.840 you had people,

00:39:21.160 you know,

00:39:21.380 former city boys,

00:39:22.580 a lot of people

00:39:23.440 were former military.

00:39:25.180 Those people,

00:39:25.980 I mean,

00:39:26.160 you've got James Clovely.

00:39:27.220 Yeah, you've got a couple still.

00:39:28.680 But they're dying out.

00:39:30.880 I mean,

00:39:31.100 the Oxbridge set

00:39:31.880 on both front benches.

00:39:34.620 The Oxbridge set,

00:39:36.260 I mean,

00:39:36.420 nearly all of them

00:39:36.880 do PPE.

00:39:38.000 They nearly all do

00:39:38.520 the same blooming degree. 0.96

00:39:39.660 The Tories are worse

00:39:42.280 than Labour probably

00:39:43.160 on this,

00:39:43.660 but Labour aren't

00:39:44.320 that far behind.

00:39:46.620 Yeah,

00:39:46.800 how much real world

00:39:47.640 experience is there

00:39:48.600 on those front benches?

00:39:50.080 And the answer is

00:39:50.620 not very much.

00:39:51.880 Oh,

00:39:52.020 Rishi Sunak worked

00:39:53.180 in Goldman Sachs.

00:39:54.260 He did the photocopy.

00:39:55.180 There isn't much

00:39:57.980 real world experience there.

00:40:00.500 And the social set

00:40:02.000 that a lot of politicians

00:40:03.980 come from,

00:40:04.560 it is incredibly narrow.

00:40:06.360 Incredibly narrow.

00:40:07.360 I used to joke with,

00:40:08.300 you know,

00:40:08.520 the Cameron set

00:40:09.260 that they all went

00:40:09.800 to the same school,

00:40:10.980 all went to the same university,

00:40:12.520 all did the same degree,

00:40:14.120 all spent the weeks

00:40:14.860 in London,

00:40:15.340 the weekends in Westminster.

00:40:16.560 None of them have any hobbies.

00:40:17.680 No hobbies.

00:40:19.120 No hobbies.

00:40:20.160 No intro.

00:40:20.600 No, no, no.

00:40:21.240 No intro.

00:40:21.920 No,

00:40:22.280 Dennis Healy said

00:40:23.120 politicians need a hinterland. 1.00

00:40:24.980 You know,

00:40:25.180 Ken Clarke had his jazz

00:40:26.560 and his love for sport.

00:40:28.060 You know,

00:40:28.400 these guys have nothing

00:40:29.380 outside their working lives

00:40:31.080 at all.

00:40:31.720 They marry each other's sisters. 0.67

00:40:33.400 I mean,

00:40:33.560 it really is.

00:40:34.380 It really is true.

00:40:36.560 Yeah,

00:40:36.880 extraordinary.

00:40:37.540 No hobbies.

00:40:38.760 I find that really interesting.

00:40:41.020 They have no passions.

00:40:42.200 Quite suspect,

00:40:43.020 really,

00:40:43.260 in a way.

00:40:43.560 Well,

00:40:43.840 I think so,

00:40:44.540 yeah.

00:40:44.720 It's a strange system,

00:40:45.760 isn't it?

00:40:46.040 I've been thinking about this

00:40:47.020 quite a lot because

00:40:47.920 we elect people

00:40:49.920 to run things,

00:40:51.160 to run the country,

00:40:52.600 who've never run anything else.

00:40:54.800 It's quite a strange way

00:40:56.120 of doing it, isn't it?

00:40:56.480 Well, it is.

00:40:56.900 I mean,

00:40:57.160 John Reid,

00:40:57.720 for example,

00:40:58.380 a very capable man

00:40:59.120 in many ways,

00:40:59.660 but John Reid

00:41:00.320 held eight top cabinet positions

00:41:02.880 for Tony Valera

00:41:03.440 in ten years.

00:41:04.900 I mean,

00:41:05.120 you've literally barely got time

00:41:06.400 to get your feet under the table.

00:41:07.440 I mean,

00:41:07.720 hey,

00:41:07.980 we had five education secretaries

00:41:09.480 last year.

00:41:11.120 Five education secretaries.

00:41:13.940 You know,

00:41:14.180 four chancellors.

00:41:16.180 I mean,

00:41:16.520 the whole thing

00:41:17.640 is absolutely not.

00:41:19.000 If you tried to run

00:41:19.720 a company like that,

00:41:20.640 the company would be bankrupt

00:41:21.680 before you know it.

00:41:22.520 You couldn't run it like that.

00:41:23.680 You couldn't run it like that.

00:41:24.520 I mean,

00:41:24.680 the argument is that

00:41:25.760 you could argue

00:41:26.940 that Gordon Brown

00:41:27.600 was thinking this way

00:41:28.420 because he did bring

00:41:28.960 other people in,

00:41:29.920 like Digby Jones,

00:41:30.860 who'd been boss of a CBI,

00:41:32.520 and Brown was thinking

00:41:33.620 about bringing talents in.

00:41:35.180 And in America,

00:41:37.500 you know,

00:41:37.640 Trump did this unashamedly.

00:41:38.840 And it brought people

00:41:40.320 in to run departments

00:41:41.400 who were experts

00:41:42.660 in their fields.

00:41:43.660 And I think maybe

00:41:44.220 a bit more of that.

00:41:44.920 But we kind of think

00:41:46.240 that to be in cabinet,

00:41:48.180 you have to be an elected MP.

00:41:49.500 And I think maybe

00:41:49.920 we need to try.

00:41:50.600 Maybe that thinking

00:41:51.400 needs to change.

00:41:52.820 I think a lot of our thinking

00:41:54.420 needs to change.

00:41:55.680 So do I.

00:41:57.820 Say that again. 0.71

00:41:58.700 Because

00:41:59.060 there needs to be

00:42:02.740 a tipping point, Nigel,

00:42:03.840 for all of these changes

00:42:04.980 that you've just talked about.

00:42:07.020 Well,

00:42:08.020 so,

00:42:10.040 he's retired now

00:42:11.940 from public life.

00:42:12.780 But I remember having

00:42:13.380 a couple of conversations

00:42:14.240 with Lord Tebbitt

00:42:15.000 about all of this.

00:42:17.280 In the 1970s,

00:42:18.420 we were the sick man of Europe. 0.50

00:42:19.900 The country was going down

00:42:20.980 the drain in every regard.

00:42:23.240 It's kind of why

00:42:23.800 we joined the common market.

00:42:25.380 We were doing so badly,

00:42:26.960 we'd lost the confidence

00:42:28.120 that we could do

00:42:28.620 these things for ourselves.

00:42:31.420 And you had half a dozen

00:42:32.540 big trade union leaders

00:42:33.580 that ran the country.

00:42:36.160 You know,

00:42:36.640 the lights went out.

00:42:38.140 The lights went out.

00:42:40.560 Heath

00:42:40.960 called an election

00:42:42.920 on who governs Britain

00:42:43.920 and

00:42:44.280 the people said,

00:42:45.480 not you, mate.

00:42:46.200 The unions.

00:42:46.820 I mean,

00:42:47.120 pretty much.

00:42:50.320 There were also suspicions

00:42:51.760 that

00:42:52.520 leading union figures

00:42:54.280 were

00:42:55.400 pretty much

00:42:56.420 hand in glove

00:42:57.000 with the Kremlin,

00:42:57.960 which subsequently

00:42:59.440 turned out to be true.

00:43:00.800 Doesn't surprise me,

00:43:01.800 believe me.

00:43:02.260 No,

00:43:02.500 turned out to be true.

00:43:03.140 But in 1978-9,

00:43:05.360 the winter of discontent,

00:43:06.300 things got so bad

00:43:07.520 that there was a chance

00:43:09.300 for a new radical agenda

00:43:10.440 to try and reform that

00:43:11.560 to get the relationship right

00:43:12.620 between the employer

00:43:13.400 and the employee.

00:43:15.060 And that,

00:43:16.300 probably more than

00:43:17.040 any other factor,

00:43:19.340 led to the great

00:43:19.940 economic growth

00:43:20.640 and success

00:43:21.180 the country enjoyed

00:43:22.080 from the mid-80s

00:43:23.480 onwards.

00:43:25.660 Things sometimes

00:43:26.460 have to get worse

00:43:27.380 before they can get better.

00:43:29.280 And I,

00:43:30.180 I'm a brokenist.

00:43:31.140 I think everything's broken.

00:43:33.480 I don't think anything

00:43:34.020 works here at all.

00:43:35.880 And I think things

00:43:36.760 are going to get

00:43:37.180 a lot,

00:43:37.840 lot worse

00:43:39.120 in terms of public

00:43:40.600 trust and confidence

00:43:41.580 in the system,

00:43:43.060 in the institutions

00:43:44.100 as they are.

00:43:45.600 So I do,

00:43:46.080 you know,

00:43:46.300 and I've hinted a couple

00:43:46.940 of times

00:43:47.400 today in our conversation.

00:43:49.080 I,

00:43:49.420 you know,

00:43:49.700 I'm looking at a,

00:43:51.040 it could be shorter,

00:43:51.720 it could be longer,

00:43:52.220 but I'm looking at a sort

00:43:53.180 of a three-year

00:43:53.900 framework

00:43:55.260 in which,

00:43:55.780 in which thinking

00:43:56.580 starts to change,

00:43:57.540 you know,

00:43:57.820 really across the board.

00:43:59.080 I've noticed something

00:44:00.000 interesting, Nigel,

00:44:00.780 and it's not just

00:44:01.380 in the UK

00:44:01.800 but more broadly.

00:44:02.720 I think a lot of us

00:44:03.600 who've spent quite a lot

00:44:04.480 of time pushing back

00:44:06.180 or complaining

00:44:07.360 or saying this is wrong

00:44:08.540 or woke people are this

00:44:09.640 or this is going on

00:44:10.600 wrong with our culture,

00:44:11.880 a lot of people

00:44:12.500 are now starting

00:44:13.160 to ask the question

00:44:13.960 of what is our

00:44:14.800 positive vision?

00:44:15.920 Yeah, of course.

00:44:16.180 What is,

00:44:16.860 what are we offering people?

00:44:18.400 You know.

00:44:18.720 Well,

00:44:19.360 you know,

00:44:19.680 I know a lot about this

00:44:20.660 because contrary

00:44:21.800 to popular myth,

00:44:23.180 the UKIP revolt

00:44:24.100 wasn't to protest folk.

00:44:26.440 UKIP was not

00:44:27.360 just angry pensioners. 0.93

00:44:30.060 But that's how,

00:44:31.380 that's how the BBC

00:44:32.260 wanted to portray it.

00:44:33.140 Yeah.

00:44:34.300 Actually,

00:44:34.780 when you polled UKIP voters,

00:44:36.980 they voted UKIP

00:44:37.660 because they agreed

00:44:38.360 with the positive

00:44:38.880 policy solutions.

00:44:40.780 You know,

00:44:41.360 such as leaving

00:44:42.220 the European Union,

00:44:43.220 getting back the ability

00:44:43.980 to make our own laws,

00:44:46.180 run our own country,

00:44:47.280 on borders,

00:44:48.880 you know,

00:44:49.020 not having an open door

00:44:50.200 to parts of Europe

00:44:51.340 but actually having

00:44:51.840 a global approach,

00:44:53.420 you know,

00:44:53.600 with a proper point system.

00:44:54.900 Sadly,

00:44:55.600 what that's meant

00:44:56.180 is they've lowered

00:44:56.720 all the standards

00:44:57.280 so virtually anyone

00:44:58.020 can come now.

00:44:59.960 So,

00:45:00.460 no,

00:45:00.640 you're right.

00:45:01.120 We have to offer

00:45:01.900 positive alternative visions.

00:45:03.480 I mean,

00:45:03.640 number one

00:45:04.160 is how we deal

00:45:05.460 with the disconnect

00:45:06.100 between Westminster

00:45:07.460 and the country

00:45:08.080 and I think a change

00:45:08.680 in the voting system

00:45:09.560 starts to do that.

00:45:10.980 Number two,

00:45:11.820 the House of Lords

00:45:12.400 is an abomination

00:45:13.940 full of absolute 0.95

00:45:15.720 bloomin' nobodies 0.99

00:45:16.600 who sit there

00:45:17.120 for the Liberal Democrats.

00:45:17.980 I mean,

00:45:18.140 God knows why

00:45:18.660 they've got 104 members

00:45:19.880 of the House of Lords

00:45:21.080 and this is the upper chamber.

00:45:23.280 I mean,

00:45:23.420 listen to their debates

00:45:24.540 they're even more

00:45:26.300 out of touch

00:45:26.860 on these issues

00:45:28.440 with the centre of gravity

00:45:29.840 of the country

00:45:30.440 than the House of Commons is.

00:45:32.060 So an updating

00:45:32.780 of our institutions

00:45:33.680 to get different voices heard

00:45:36.020 and a different influence there

00:45:38.480 is at least a beginning

00:45:39.980 of the process.

00:45:41.480 You have to change

00:45:42.020 the national debate,

00:45:43.240 you have to change

00:45:43.640 the national media debate

00:45:44.720 as well with it

00:45:45.660 before you can start

00:45:46.720 to move on.

00:45:47.600 I think that's really,

00:45:48.280 really important.

00:45:50.500 And philosophically,

00:45:52.320 the case for us to make,

00:45:56.540 and this won't be easy,

00:45:59.980 but the case for us to make

00:46:02.360 is that the individual matters.

00:46:05.360 That we're not just all part

00:46:06.540 of some great big collective.

00:46:08.220 That the state somehow owns us.

00:46:10.560 I mean,

00:46:12.280 Boris Johnson telling us,

00:46:13.660 oh, it's okay,

00:46:15.020 this year you can have Christmas

00:46:16.320 with your family.

00:46:17.240 Well,

00:46:17.920 I won't say what I was going to say.

00:46:21.620 How's it his freedom,

00:46:23.440 decision,

00:46:24.500 to decide what I can or can't do?

00:46:27.000 So I think there is something here

00:46:28.180 around the individual.

00:46:29.180 Yes.

00:46:29.500 That we are people.

00:46:31.560 We choose our units,

00:46:33.240 whether it's partners,

00:46:34.480 wives,

00:46:35.100 husbands,

00:46:36.000 families,

00:46:36.860 communities,

00:46:37.960 churches,

00:46:38.440 whatever we choose.

00:46:40.080 But kind of we're being

00:46:41.500 looked upon.

00:46:43.440 It's as if that relationship

00:46:44.800 between the governors

00:46:46.300 and the governed

00:46:46.920 has been reversed.

00:46:48.840 It's the price you pay

00:46:50.160 for welfarism

00:46:50.880 because if I'm paying for you,

00:46:52.340 then I get to tell you

00:46:53.160 what to do.

00:46:53.800 That's exactly right.

00:46:54.880 And that now extends

00:46:56.380 all the way through

00:46:57.920 people may say

00:46:59.780 it doesn't matter,

00:47:00.600 but ANPR,

00:47:02.320 you know,

00:47:02.980 and one that I'm very heavily

00:47:04.160 involved with,

00:47:05.260 and as you know,

00:47:05.880 I do stuff

00:47:07.040 on the financial services

00:47:08.820 side as well,

00:47:10.100 trying to help ordinary folk

00:47:11.120 understand

00:47:11.760 what's going on.

00:47:14.800 Last week,

00:47:15.640 the Treasury

00:47:16.140 were advertising jobs

00:47:18.460 to work in a central bank

00:47:21.060 digital currency department.

00:47:24.060 Do not underestimate this.

00:47:26.420 Tell us more.

00:47:26.900 Tell us more.

00:47:27.340 Because we don't know

00:47:28.780 anything about it.

00:47:29.360 What is it?

00:47:29.960 Why are you concerned about it?

00:47:31.860 We know digital currencies exist.

00:47:33.820 We know you've got

00:47:34.400 Bitcoin, Ethereum

00:47:35.260 and thousands of others

00:47:36.280 and they're incredibly volatile

00:47:38.120 and some people

00:47:38.800 have made millions

00:47:39.380 and some have lost their shirts

00:47:40.540 and we've had big bankruptcies,

00:47:42.680 but these things still exist.

00:47:45.400 A central bank digital currency

00:47:46.740 would mean a cashless society.

00:47:48.700 We would not carry any cash.

00:47:50.660 Now, actually,

00:47:51.560 the pandemic was used

00:47:52.840 to try and stop us using cash.

00:47:55.440 I agree.

00:47:55.920 In many, many cases,

00:47:57.240 unless, of course,

00:47:57.760 you visit a so-called Turkish barber's,

00:47:59.480 but that's another story

00:48:02.220 where it's cash only still.

00:48:06.460 Central bank digital currencies,

00:48:08.280 you know,

00:48:08.540 would mean

00:48:09.120 that every payment

00:48:10.760 into our accounts

00:48:11.860 or out of our accounts

00:48:13.340 would be monitored,

00:48:15.600 would be controlled.

00:48:16.980 The state would have

00:48:17.980 total supervision

00:48:19.540 of the entirety

00:48:21.060 of our economic activity.

00:48:22.760 People will say,

00:48:23.960 isn't that what happens

00:48:24.840 already, though?

00:48:26.060 No, because you can still

00:48:27.320 spend things on cash.

00:48:28.740 I mean,

00:48:29.540 they are not completely

00:48:30.540 in control of our lives.

00:48:31.620 Now, they are far too much.

00:48:33.240 Yes, I'd agree with you.

00:48:35.180 Why should we be,

00:48:36.140 why should I,

00:48:36.780 as a law-abiding citizen,

00:48:37.900 be fearful of government

00:48:38.960 knowing every single

00:48:39.980 financial transaction

00:48:40.820 that I do?

00:48:42.580 Because after all,

00:48:43.760 if I'm law-abiding,

00:48:45.200 I'm nothing to fear.

00:48:47.260 Unless, of course,

00:48:49.140 you live in Canada

00:48:50.080 and you're a trucker

00:48:53.400 and unless you've had

00:48:56.220 about 14 coronavirus jabs,

00:48:58.480 at least one a fortnight.

00:49:01.140 That's what Tony Blair

00:49:01.960 wants for us, by the way.

00:49:03.020 Did you see that the other day?

00:49:03.720 Yes, I did.

00:49:04.520 Yeah, Tony Blair saying

00:49:05.380 all the jabs to come.

00:49:06.800 Well, I mean,

00:49:07.400 I feel like a UKIPA 0.98

00:49:08.900 in caricature.

00:49:14.020 And these people

00:49:14.860 were having their right

00:49:15.540 to work

00:49:16.900 taken away from them

00:49:18.860 for no good medical reason

00:49:20.760 and they staged

00:49:22.000 the truckers' protest

00:49:23.020 in Canada.

00:49:25.520 What happened to them?

00:49:27.220 Government put pressure.

00:49:28.720 Their bank accounts

00:49:29.680 were closed and frozen.

00:49:31.800 Under central bank

00:49:32.440 digital currencies,

00:49:33.320 they could have

00:49:33.600 flipped a switch

00:49:34.200 and done it.

00:49:35.520 You are giving,

00:49:36.160 you are giving government

00:49:37.480 total control

00:49:38.360 over your life.

00:49:39.700 And, you know,

00:49:40.260 we've learnt

00:49:41.080 just this weekend

00:49:42.280 that Brigade 77,

00:49:46.360 counterintelligence

00:49:47.240 army group,

00:49:48.620 weren't even working

00:49:49.740 with the security services,

00:49:51.760 working with the DCMS.

00:49:55.600 I mean,

00:49:55.960 unbelievable 0.60

00:49:56.520 that these muppet 0.93

00:49:58.500 government ministers

00:49:59.460 actually had people

00:50:01.660 spying

00:50:02.400 on journalists,

00:50:05.440 political figures,

00:50:06.640 commentators,

00:50:07.400 who did not accept

00:50:08.740 that lockdown

00:50:09.700 was good for you,

00:50:10.680 who questioned the model

00:50:12.040 that Professor Ferguson,

00:50:14.280 when he wasn't running

00:50:14.880 his girlfriend's flat,

00:50:16.060 you know,

00:50:16.320 was putting out to us.

00:50:18.460 So that's the reason

00:50:19.280 why we should fear.

00:50:20.200 Central bank digital currencies

00:50:21.480 are the ultimate form

00:50:23.020 of very,

00:50:24.020 very big government.

00:50:25.720 And we are beginning

00:50:26.660 to move

00:50:27.260 in that direction.

00:50:29.040 And that is something

00:50:29.880 that needs to be fought

00:50:30.680 and fought very,

00:50:31.360 very hard.

00:50:31.880 And it's why,

00:50:32.840 actually,

00:50:33.780 I believe,

00:50:35.700 and you can read the FT

00:50:36.800 and you can listen

00:50:37.920 to all the establishment

00:50:38.920 media,

00:50:40.720 all of whom will tell you

00:50:41.920 that cryptocurrencies

00:50:43.000 are a scam,

00:50:44.300 a can't,

00:50:44.720 a Ponzi scheme.

00:50:45.740 I promise you one thing,

00:50:46.980 they are here to stay.

00:50:48.180 And if we move

00:50:48.840 towards CBDCs,

00:50:51.280 I'll try and do

00:50:52.200 as much of my transactions,

00:50:54.280 buying and selling cars,

00:50:55.200 whatever it is,

00:50:56.000 I'll try and do it

00:50:56.680 on crypto.

00:50:58.200 So you've,

00:51:00.140 that's,

00:51:01.420 you see,

00:51:02.300 that's the reason

00:51:03.340 we haven't looked

00:51:03.960 into it, Nigel,

00:51:04.780 because we saw

00:51:05.860 the way things shifted

00:51:07.080 during the pandemic.

00:51:07.920 I saw the way

00:51:08.700 they subtly tried

00:51:09.700 to eliminate cash.

00:51:10.780 And then there's now

00:51:12.000 brands like Bretton Manger

00:51:13.620 simply don't accept cash.

00:51:15.860 Do you think,

00:51:17.020 look,

00:51:17.580 and it's going to sound

00:51:18.400 like a conspiracy theorist,

00:51:19.740 do you think that these...

00:51:20.960 There's no conspiracy theory.

00:51:22.340 I'm telling you

00:51:22.840 what's happening.

00:51:25.100 I'm telling you

00:51:25.980 exactly what's happening.

00:51:27.360 A hundred governments

00:51:28.160 around the world

00:51:28.900 have had an open debate

00:51:30.660 about whether CBDCs

00:51:32.220 are the way forward.

00:51:33.140 That's where we're going.

00:51:35.080 And how do you see

00:51:36.120 it being implemented?

00:51:37.300 Do you see it being implemented

00:51:38.460 in five,

00:51:39.400 ten,

00:51:39.800 fifteen years?

00:51:40.900 Oh,

00:51:41.300 it's obviously going to

00:51:41.940 obviously take time

00:51:42.980 to do something like this,

00:51:44.560 but it tells you

00:51:45.400 everything you need to know

00:51:46.820 about our political class,

00:51:48.940 about the media class

00:51:49.960 that backed them up,

00:51:51.120 about the whole

00:51:51.880 philosophical debate

00:51:53.120 that the three of us

00:51:53.860 are having sitting here today.

00:51:55.420 You know,

00:51:55.600 we're saying something's

00:51:56.180 gone wrong with our politics.

00:51:57.600 I think the fact

00:51:58.360 there is no outcry

00:51:59.300 about those Treasury

00:52:00.920 adverts last week,

00:52:02.140 no questions in Parliament,

00:52:03.980 no one debating this,

00:52:05.340 shows you just how badly

00:52:06.460 wrong these things have gone.

00:52:07.540 I do not get involved.

00:52:09.640 I'm a pragmatist.

00:52:11.180 I'm a former businessman

00:52:12.400 that got involved in politics.

00:52:15.460 I haven't got time

00:52:16.660 for ranting conspiracy theories.

00:52:18.820 I do believe in asking questions.

00:52:20.300 But these are the directions

00:52:23.400 that the West is going in.

00:52:25.260 Increased welfarism,

00:52:26.800 increased tax,

00:52:27.940 reduction of choice,

00:52:29.320 infringement on free speech,

00:52:30.420 and ultimately total control

00:52:31.800 of our lives.

00:52:32.320 Well, you mentioned

00:52:33.140 total control, Nigel,

00:52:34.240 and Francis mentions

00:52:35.300 conspiracies,

00:52:36.060 and one of the big things

00:52:37.560 that a lot of people

00:52:38.420 are now talking about

00:52:39.580 is Davos,

00:52:41.540 Klaus Schwab,

00:52:42.860 globalism.

00:52:45.620 And to some people,

00:52:47.780 it's, you know,

00:52:49.600 some kind of cabal 0.98

00:52:50.740 of pedo-lizards, 0.99

00:52:51.880 whatever is the craziest... 0.78

00:52:53.520 Is it?

00:52:53.800 Yeah.

00:52:55.500 I listen to David.

00:52:56.560 No, sorry.

00:52:59.380 And there are other people,

00:53:00.900 much more reasonable,

00:53:01.600 I think,

00:53:02.100 who go,

00:53:02.440 look,

00:53:02.720 this is an assembly

00:53:04.140 of powerful people

00:53:05.200 who have a particular vision

00:53:07.120 and their religion

00:53:08.140 is clearly climate alarmism.

00:53:10.020 That's what they're about.

00:53:11.060 That's the number one thing.

00:53:12.040 Now.

00:53:12.800 For now,

00:53:13.500 that's what they stand for.

00:53:14.440 And of course,

00:53:14.960 it's a global problem

00:53:15.760 which requires

00:53:16.600 global solution.

00:53:18.560 One center of power,

00:53:20.480 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:53:21.260 Forget national sovereignty,

00:53:22.440 et cetera.

00:53:22.940 Yeah.

00:53:24.820 So,

00:53:26.180 and then you see,

00:53:27.260 you mentioned Tony Blair,

00:53:28.460 you know,

00:53:29.260 we need to track

00:53:30.600 everyone's vaccine status.

00:53:31.600 everywhere at all times forever

00:53:33.280 for the rest of eternity.

00:53:35.000 What do you make?

00:53:35.880 Is that who you mean

00:53:36.820 by globalists

00:53:37.640 when you use that term?

00:53:38.740 Is that the people

00:53:39.580 or who are these globalists

00:53:41.020 and what are they up to?

00:53:42.660 It's a mistake

00:53:43.320 to think that Klaus Schwab

00:53:44.340 is the man stroking

00:53:45.100 the white cat,

00:53:45.920 you know, 0.58

00:53:46.120 who is the evil genius.

00:53:47.720 I mean, 0.93

00:53:47.920 he looks like a bloke.

00:53:49.320 He does.

00:53:49.880 He just needs a scar.

00:53:52.880 No,

00:53:53.360 I mean,

00:53:53.580 look,

00:53:54.800 hey,

00:53:55.360 you know,

00:53:55.620 we've had the Bilderberg Group,

00:53:57.100 we've got the WEF.

00:53:59.160 I spent over 20 years

00:54:00.440 working in Brussels,

00:54:01.200 which is the epicenter

00:54:02.460 of the globalist project.

00:54:04.960 And it's that coming together

00:54:08.500 of big government,

00:54:11.940 big business,

00:54:13.900 big banks,

00:54:15.080 and now big tech.

00:54:18.700 It is the common shared interest

00:54:20.900 of all of those people.

00:54:23.140 It is that it is,

00:54:24.300 and you say climate change

00:54:25.480 is their motivation,

00:54:26.300 and their real motivation

00:54:27.120 is money,

00:54:28.220 money and control,

00:54:29.560 power and control.

00:54:32.000 And,

00:54:32.480 you know,

00:54:33.740 the truth of it is,

00:54:35.180 the more you have

00:54:38.080 globalized standards,

00:54:40.660 the less opportunity there is

00:54:43.060 for the individual,

00:54:44.780 and I'm back to that word again

00:54:45.960 because I think it's very important,

00:54:48.080 to design new products,

00:54:51.640 to come into a market,

00:54:52.940 to be a market challenger.

00:54:55.000 You know,

00:54:55.280 it's why you finish up.

00:54:56.280 I mean,

00:54:56.820 frankly,

00:54:57.920 if I'm Deutsche Bank

00:54:59.640 or Goldman Sachs,

00:55:01.540 I want the City of London

00:55:03.180 to be as regulated

00:55:04.720 as possible.

00:55:07.000 I want more and more

00:55:08.240 and more law.

00:55:10.340 And I loved it in Europe

00:55:11.820 because I could just brief

00:55:12.860 the bloke

00:55:13.260 at the European Commission

00:55:14.240 and he'd write the legislation

00:55:15.420 and nobody in the Parliament

00:55:16.180 understood it anyway.

00:55:17.560 And the more regulation there is

00:55:19.220 in a business environment,

00:55:21.040 the more costs there are,

00:55:22.880 legal costs,

00:55:24.080 compliance costs,

00:55:24.900 et cetera,

00:55:26.740 the barriers to entry

00:55:28.240 for new ideas

00:55:30.540 and new participants

00:55:32.000 are such that no one can.

00:55:35.080 And,

00:55:35.800 I mean,

00:55:37.560 America's got this problem. 0.97

00:55:39.700 You can go

00:55:40.360 to shopping malls

00:55:42.220 in any of the states

00:55:44.500 and see exactly the same shops.

00:55:47.200 Yes,

00:55:48.280 absolutely.

00:55:49.040 No challenges,

00:55:50.460 no small businesses.

00:55:52.320 So,

00:55:53.580 some will argue

00:55:54.300 that's the way the world's going,

00:55:55.340 you can't do anything about it.

00:55:57.280 I don't agree with that.

00:55:59.340 I think,

00:56:00.300 of course,

00:56:01.100 we value international trade

00:56:02.760 and global trade

00:56:03.520 and all these things.

00:56:05.120 But I think,

00:56:06.300 for me,

00:56:08.520 one of the opportunities

00:56:09.300 of Brexit,

00:56:10.120 real opportunities

00:56:10.840 of Brexit,

00:56:11.780 was for us

00:56:13.520 to have the opportunity

00:56:14.620 to become so much

00:56:16.140 more entrepreneurial

00:56:16.880 than the rest of Europe.

00:56:19.100 And that means

00:56:19.600 getting rid of

00:56:20.140 some of those barriers.

00:56:21.060 Now,

00:56:21.180 of course,

00:56:21.460 as soon as you try

00:56:21.820 and do that,

00:56:23.120 oh,

00:56:23.520 he wants to change

00:56:24.220 employment legislation,

00:56:25.260 it's a return to slavery.

00:56:26.660 Or,

00:56:26.840 you know,

00:56:27.220 that's how

00:56:30.540 the counter-argument

00:56:31.260 gets put.

00:56:32.900 So,

00:56:33.260 we can't lay it all

00:56:34.420 at the door

00:56:35.540 of Klaus Schwab,

00:56:37.880 although interesting,

00:56:38.460 isn't it,

00:56:38.720 Mr Blair clearly

00:56:39.420 wants that job.

00:56:40.880 I mean,

00:56:41.040 that was a pitch

00:56:41.760 for that job.

00:56:43.120 But that is what

00:56:43.840 we're up against.

00:56:44.720 And,

00:56:44.920 you know,

00:56:45.640 you asked earlier

00:56:46.420 about

00:56:47.660 how Westminster

00:56:49.840 has become so detached

00:56:50.820 because these are

00:56:51.440 the influences on them.

00:56:52.340 And,

00:56:53.640 Nigel,

00:56:54.180 you would know

00:56:55.720 more than anyone

00:56:56.580 about the European Union.

00:56:58.680 And I'm looking

00:56:59.440 at the European Union.

00:57:00.760 I voted remain.

00:57:02.440 But I look at the European Union

00:57:04.160 as a project long-term.

00:57:05.940 And I think it's doomed

00:57:06.920 economically.

00:57:07.720 I think the euro 0.90

00:57:08.360 is a ridiculous idea. 0.96

00:57:10.960 It's a utopian idea. 0.98

00:57:12.280 The whole thing

00:57:12.960 seems to me

00:57:13.440 like a utopian project.

00:57:15.460 All the southern European states

00:57:16.980 seem like zombie nations.

00:57:18.480 They're in perpetual recession 0.98

00:57:19.460 with a brain. 0.76

00:57:19.960 Very sad. 0.99

00:57:20.400 So sad.

00:57:22.220 You know,

00:57:22.600 what's happened

00:57:23.000 to the Greek people,

00:57:24.100 what's happened

00:57:24.720 to the Italian people,

00:57:25.860 it's very sad.

00:57:27.260 So what is the future

00:57:28.280 for the EU?

00:57:28.980 What do you think

00:57:29.600 will happen

00:57:30.140 in five,

00:57:30.900 ten years

00:57:31.360 and long-term as well?

00:57:33.180 Well,

00:57:33.520 I mean,

00:57:33.760 you know,

00:57:34.260 all the EU

00:57:35.460 is really

00:57:36.360 is an updated

00:57:37.580 form of communism

00:57:38.420 that uses big businesses

00:57:40.160 as their friends.

00:57:42.640 You know,

00:57:42.800 they accept the state

00:57:43.600 can't do everything.

00:57:44.320 They need to have

00:57:45.340 commercial actors

00:57:46.780 that operate with them

00:57:47.840 to do this.

00:57:49.940 Look,

00:57:50.640 it will not survive,

00:57:52.140 but it is an enormously

00:57:53.600 powerful institution.

00:57:55.000 It's grip.

00:57:56.920 It's grip

00:57:57.900 over the levers

00:57:59.900 of politics

00:58:01.540 and media

00:58:02.120 of big tech,

00:58:04.080 which we just can't ignore

00:58:04.840 any of this

00:58:05.460 these days.

00:58:07.980 It's huge.

00:58:09.920 And

00:58:10.520 any politician

00:58:13.120 that dares

00:58:14.040 to stand up

00:58:15.360 and say

00:58:15.620 we should leave it

00:58:16.420 is him

00:58:16.860 for a very unhappy life.

00:58:19.560 You know,

00:58:20.100 what do you think

00:58:20.580 no one else does?

00:58:21.420 No.

00:58:22.020 If you look around Europe,

00:58:23.180 Maloney,

00:58:23.940 all the others,

00:58:25.340 they'll talk about

00:58:26.340 changing direction,

00:58:27.400 about slowing down

00:58:28.040 the speed of integration,

00:58:29.000 but no one dares

00:58:30.040 to actually take them on.

00:58:32.980 I did it.

00:58:34.740 God,

00:58:35.260 it must have been bad.

00:58:36.020 No,

00:58:37.500 but look,

00:58:38.280 ultimately,

00:58:38.880 in the end,

00:58:39.160 it isn't going to work.

00:58:40.380 It isn't going to work.

00:58:41.440 In the end,

00:58:42.680 it'll be the economics

00:58:43.500 that unravels it.

00:58:44.680 In the end,

00:58:45.980 it'll be Italy 0.93

00:58:46.600 that just says,

00:58:48.080 you know what?

00:58:48.760 We cannot put up.

00:58:49.900 We're getting poorer

00:58:50.520 and poorer

00:58:51.080 and poorer

00:58:51.620 every year.

00:58:52.380 We cannot go on

00:58:53.520 being stuck

00:58:54.520 in a German-dominated

00:58:55.520 currency.

00:58:57.080 As to when

00:58:58.260 that happens,

00:58:59.860 I can't tell you,

00:59:00.480 but it won't survive.

00:59:01.820 You know,

00:59:02.280 when you were talking

00:59:02.740 about increasing regulation

00:59:04.020 and raising the barriers

00:59:05.040 to entry,

00:59:05.640 one of the things

00:59:06.240 that shows the reverse

00:59:07.740 of that

00:59:08.100 is what's happened

00:59:08.820 with the media.

00:59:09.660 If you think about this,

00:59:11.420 this is the exact,

00:59:12.540 you know,

00:59:13.120 10 years ago,

00:59:13.900 if you wanted to start

00:59:14.980 some kind of media organisation,

00:59:16.460 you needed a million quid.

00:59:17.880 Right now,

00:59:18.300 you need two cameras

00:59:19.080 and a couple of microphones.

00:59:21.160 So,

00:59:21.700 I suppose,

00:59:22.360 as long as big tech

00:59:23.220 can be kept within line,

00:59:24.960 Well,

00:59:25.060 that's all well and good.

00:59:26.140 Yeah.

00:59:26.400 That's all well,

00:59:26.960 and you've had a big recent hit

00:59:28.460 from the Oxford Union,

00:59:29.220 and well done you.

00:59:30.300 That's what I had in 2012.

00:59:31.140 with Herman Van Rumpy Pumpy

00:59:33.540 Rumpoy.

00:59:36.220 But,

00:59:36.940 here's the thing.

00:59:41.600 My political career

00:59:42.880 would never have taken UKIP

00:59:45.360 beyond being,

00:59:46.440 you know,

00:59:47.980 a minor party.

00:59:50.260 I'd never have got

00:59:51.180 beyond minor party status

00:59:52.560 without YouTube.

00:59:54.660 Would never have happened.

00:59:56.580 Never have happened.

00:59:57.760 Not a cat's chance in hell.

00:59:59.380 How could I reach that?

01:00:00.280 If the BBC

01:00:01.420 won't put you on the news,

01:00:03.060 how can you reach

01:00:04.560 that number of people?

01:00:06.280 And what happened with me

01:00:07.260 was,

01:00:08.160 sort of,

01:00:08.480 2008 onwards,

01:00:10.820 YouTube was there.

01:00:11.840 I remember that ghastly man,

01:00:16.840 Guy Verhofstadt,

01:00:17.660 in the European Parliament,

01:00:19.340 standing up one second,

01:00:20.060 Mr Farage,

01:00:20.940 he comes here,

01:00:22.260 he's not speaking to us,

01:00:23.980 he's speaking to a YouTube audience,

01:00:25.820 and said,

01:00:26.060 yep,

01:00:26.360 it's a fair cop,

01:00:26.980 gov.

01:00:29.700 And Trump's the same.

01:00:31.620 For Trump,

01:00:32.820 the tool of choice

01:00:33.780 was Twitter,

01:00:34.840 through which he

01:00:35.740 absolutely dominated

01:00:36.840 the national

01:00:38.780 and international

01:00:39.960 conversation.

01:00:42.240 And so what happened

01:00:42.940 was,

01:00:43.260 mainstream media

01:00:44.060 reflected what I did,

01:00:45.760 or in an even bigger way,

01:00:47.040 reflected what Trump did.

01:00:48.660 That was all well and good,

01:00:50.520 until the creators

01:00:51.260 of this new

01:00:53.200 innovative technology

01:00:54.260 suddenly realised

01:00:55.300 the consequences

01:00:56.020 of what it is

01:00:57.120 that they created,

01:00:58.300 namely,

01:00:59.140 that the peasants

01:01:00.200 could actually have a say

01:01:02.100 against their mates

01:01:03.240 in the capital cities,

01:01:04.080 and that's why we saw

01:01:04.740 that period

01:01:05.260 of people being banned

01:01:09.280 and shadowbanned

01:01:10.840 and counterbanned,

01:01:12.020 and sometimes,

01:01:13.080 by the way,

01:01:13.400 justifiably.

01:01:14.780 You know,

01:01:15.000 there are things

01:01:15.440 that are said

01:01:15.900 that are outright vile

01:01:17.360 or insightful

01:01:19.020 that are not

01:01:20.400 within the realms

01:01:21.920 of what's acceptable

01:01:22.600 as free speech,

01:01:23.380 but an awful lot of stuff

01:01:24.480 that got shadowbanned

01:01:26.020 was perfectly fair

01:01:26.860 and reasonable comment.

01:01:27.820 I mean,

01:01:28.020 Facebook,

01:01:28.680 for me,

01:01:30.080 if people like

01:01:32.960 and try and share

01:01:33.760 my Facebook stuff,

01:01:34.840 they get suspended.

01:01:36.060 It's happened again

01:01:36.800 and again and again.

01:01:38.020 So,

01:01:38.340 my stuff they'll take,

01:01:39.780 just,

01:01:41.180 but anyone tries

01:01:41.760 to propagate my stuff,

01:01:43.320 they'll stop from doing it,

01:01:44.160 you know,

01:01:44.280 suspended for 48 hours

01:01:45.320 or whatever it is.

01:01:47.520 So,

01:01:48.000 we've seen the growth

01:01:49.000 of Getter

01:01:50.640 and one or two other

01:01:51.380 new challenges

01:01:51.980 to the market.

01:01:52.760 We've now got,

01:01:53.360 obviously,

01:01:53.760 Elon Musk

01:01:54.360 that has come in

01:01:54.940 with Twitter,

01:01:56.120 who is playing

01:01:56.960 an heroic role.

01:01:59.120 So,

01:01:59.460 yes,

01:02:00.220 provided,

01:02:01.380 provided there's enough

01:02:03.200 free space

01:02:04.180 in tech,

01:02:05.420 your point holds,

01:02:06.380 but there are dangers.

01:02:07.400 Well,

01:02:07.540 we've got to,

01:02:08.040 it's an opportunity

01:02:08.820 to change the culture

01:02:09.720 and I think that's where

01:02:10.640 all this other revolution

01:02:11.940 that you talk about

01:02:12.860 comes in.

01:02:13.740 Nigel,

01:02:14.140 we've talked,

01:02:14.580 we've mapped out

01:02:15.700 a lot of problems,

01:02:16.540 I think,

01:02:16.880 and also some of the solutions,

01:02:18.500 too,

01:02:18.640 and I think

01:02:19.060 this message about

01:02:20.720 the sanctity of the individual,

01:02:22.420 the importance of,

01:02:23.680 you know,

01:02:23.900 people having the opportunity

01:02:25.020 to start a business

01:02:25.880 and not be taxed massively

01:02:27.280 and whatever,

01:02:27.720 that's all very important,

01:02:28.420 but let's say

01:02:29.820 by some magical transformation

01:02:31.820 the country was different

01:02:32.800 and you were prime minister,

01:02:34.580 what would you do?

01:02:35.520 What would be

01:02:35.960 your top five priorities?

01:02:38.020 We'll have a dream

01:02:38.460 to celebrate.

01:02:40.080 I mean,

01:02:40.660 obviously.

01:02:42.420 Oh,

01:02:42.940 I think we have to try

01:02:43.900 and restore

01:02:45.400 some faith

01:02:47.160 and trust in politics

01:02:48.280 and stop lying to people.

01:02:50.760 Rishi Sunak

01:02:51.360 sent an email out

01:02:52.240 last night

01:02:52.860 to Conservative Party members

01:02:54.740 on the third anniversary

01:02:55.720 of the day

01:02:56.140 we left

01:02:56.520 the European Union

01:02:57.980 saying we've got Brexit done,

01:03:00.100 number one,

01:03:00.680 we've taken back control

01:03:01.600 of our borders.

01:03:02.420 But that is just a lie.

01:03:03.940 Right.

01:03:04.520 I mean,

01:03:04.760 just an outright lie.

01:03:07.860 So,

01:03:08.340 number one,

01:03:08.960 you've got to restore some trust

01:03:10.100 and you can only do that

01:03:12.320 by just being a bit franker

01:03:13.300 with people.

01:03:13.760 So,

01:03:13.920 number one,

01:03:14.260 be a bit more frank with people.

01:03:15.600 You know,

01:03:15.980 we got this right,

01:03:16.960 we got this wrong,

01:03:17.780 hey,

01:03:18.060 you know what,

01:03:18.560 it's life,

01:03:19.340 we're doing our best.

01:03:20.360 I think restoring,

01:03:21.540 trying to restore some faith

01:03:22.800 and that connection,

01:03:24.640 that belief

01:03:25.120 that you're elected

01:03:25.780 on a set of proposals

01:03:27.760 and you're going to do

01:03:28.880 your damnedest

01:03:29.680 to try and keep the promises

01:03:31.120 that you better.

01:03:31.980 That's the first thing

01:03:32.980 you've absolutely got to do.

01:03:35.240 The second thing

01:03:35.980 that you've got to do

01:03:36.960 is you absolutely

01:03:38.840 have to find a way

01:03:40.300 where people can get

01:03:40.860 GP appointments.

01:03:42.380 It's so fundamental.

01:03:44.260 Every age,

01:03:45.500 it's so fundamental.

01:03:47.060 So,

01:03:47.520 you need a very,

01:03:48.100 very rapid

01:03:48.860 thought process

01:03:50.060 as to how we can do that.

01:03:52.600 Now,

01:03:53.020 longer term,

01:03:54.300 obviously,

01:03:54.980 one of the big problems

01:03:55.640 we have is not training

01:03:56.400 enough of our own people

01:03:57.360 and relying on immigrant labor

01:03:59.120 the whole time.

01:04:00.360 Short term,

01:04:01.060 we're doctors,

01:04:01.600 we may need to take more

01:04:03.060 from the rest of the world

01:04:03.960 to try and solve this problem.

01:04:05.940 But that,

01:04:06.540 again,

01:04:06.740 will be part of restoring

01:04:07.840 that trust.

01:04:09.180 Number three,

01:04:10.140 fundamental look

01:04:10.720 the tax system.

01:04:11.600 You know,

01:04:12.080 you go back through

01:04:12.820 the history of mankind,

01:04:14.380 you can find many

01:04:15.160 of the good periods

01:04:15.900 and bad periods.

01:04:17.080 Many of the periods

01:04:17.800 of war

01:04:18.400 and peace

01:04:19.740 have actually been

01:04:21.140 caused by taxes

01:04:22.180 being injudicious

01:04:23.780 or being well thought through.

01:04:25.620 And I think,

01:04:25.920 I think the tax,

01:04:26.740 restoring

01:04:27.480 some form

01:04:28.840 of incentive

01:04:29.740 to people,

01:04:30.320 I think it's really,

01:04:31.460 really important.

01:04:32.420 Reducing the tax burden.

01:04:34.400 The fourth thing

01:04:35.000 is,

01:04:35.820 people won't like this

01:04:37.380 very much,

01:04:37.960 but we can't go on

01:04:40.920 paying you more

01:04:41.480 to sit at home,

01:04:43.400 claiming a whole range

01:04:44.300 of benefits

01:04:44.920 than we can

01:04:46.720 for you to go to work.

01:04:47.780 And I'm afraid

01:04:48.400 that welfare

01:04:50.000 is going to have to be cut.

01:04:52.360 Now that,

01:04:52.800 of course,

01:04:53.360 you know,

01:04:53.560 can you imagine

01:04:54.120 the protests?

01:04:54.800 But I'm afraid

01:04:56.340 we've got to grasp

01:04:57.060 that nettle,

01:04:57.980 that ultimately,

01:04:59.340 welfarism 0.94

01:04:59.920 is making people sicker.

01:05:01.540 It isn't making them better

01:05:02.500 in very,

01:05:03.600 very large numbers.

01:05:05.800 And that's an incredibly

01:05:06.740 hard thing

01:05:07.260 to do.

01:05:08.580 Incredibly hard

01:05:09.280 thing to do.

01:05:10.420 It's as hard

01:05:12.400 as what Thatcher

01:05:13.680 had to face

01:05:14.180 in 79.

01:05:15.980 It's as hard

01:05:16.940 as that.

01:05:18.620 And number five,

01:05:20.000 I mean,

01:05:20.260 you've asked me this

01:05:21.040 off the cuff,

01:05:21.660 but number five,

01:05:23.920 I think in a very

01:05:24.520 uncertain world,

01:05:26.260 I think a really good

01:05:27.320 thing about our

01:05:27.980 military forces.

01:05:29.640 There are some

01:05:30.220 great threats

01:05:30.780 out there in the world.

01:05:32.100 You know,

01:05:32.500 China,

01:05:33.220 Russia,

01:05:33.760 things we don't

01:05:34.200 know about.

01:05:35.480 And I think the extent

01:05:36.320 to which we've run

01:05:36.920 down our national

01:05:37.640 defences in this

01:05:39.160 country over the

01:05:40.000 course of the last

01:05:40.460 12 years is utterly

01:05:42.020 shameful.

01:05:43.300 We live in a very

01:05:43.960 uncertain world.

01:05:45.240 Look at the things

01:05:45.620 that have happened

01:05:45.940 just in the last

01:05:47.000 five years,

01:05:48.280 things that have

01:05:48.720 happened.

01:05:50.120 So there you go.

01:05:51.620 Nigel,

01:05:52.380 as always,

01:05:53.400 an absolute pleasure.

01:05:54.380 Thank you so much.

01:05:55.500 the final question

01:05:56.940 that we always end

01:05:57.680 our interviews with

01:05:58.420 is what's the one

01:05:59.140 thing we're not

01:05:59.560 talking about

01:06:00.160 that we really

01:06:00.880 should be?

01:06:01.500 The brain drain.

01:06:02.400 It's happening.

01:06:03.520 For the first time,

01:06:04.240 since that is 78,

01:06:05.260 79,

01:06:06.540 young,

01:06:07.420 entrepreneurial,

01:06:08.320 good people are

01:06:09.120 leaving the country

01:06:09.860 in large numbers.

01:06:11.240 They're going.

01:06:13.240 The official figures

01:06:15.000 will track how many

01:06:16.320 high net worth

01:06:16.780 individuals,

01:06:17.360 how many billionaires

01:06:18.140 leave. 0.99

01:06:18.820 What you can't

01:06:19.460 measure are the

01:06:20.260 number of 31-year-olds

01:06:21.320 who've got tech

01:06:22.620 businesses

01:06:23.060 who are really

01:06:26.080 worried about the

01:06:27.400 tax and regulatory

01:06:28.060 burden and who say

01:06:30.040 when they pay their

01:06:30.760 tax, look where it's

01:06:31.640 going.

01:06:31.940 It's not helping

01:06:32.420 anybody.

01:06:33.200 They're going to

01:06:33.700 Portugal in big 1.00

01:06:34.720 numbers.

01:06:35.160 They're going to

01:06:35.460 Milan in sizable

01:06:36.840 numbers.

01:06:37.280 They're going to

01:06:37.540 Australia, as they've 0.92

01:06:38.640 always done.

01:06:39.160 We are losing, once

01:06:40.920 again, some of our

01:06:41.600 brightest and best

01:06:42.240 people and nobody

01:06:43.120 wants to acknowledge

01:06:44.120 it or even comment

01:06:44.980 on it.

01:06:45.460 It's happening.

01:06:46.540 It needs to be

01:06:47.320 stopped.

01:06:48.640 Nigel Farage,

01:06:49.260 thank you so much.

01:06:50.000 We've got a couple

01:06:50.640 of questions.

01:06:51.320 That our audience

01:06:51.840 have submitted that

01:06:52.560 only they will get

01:06:53.440 to see in a second.

01:06:54.300 But for now, thank

01:06:54.900 you and thank you

01:06:55.900 for watching and

01:06:56.540 listening.

01:06:56.920 We'll be back very

01:06:57.740 soon with another

01:06:58.300 brilliant episode like

01:06:59.280 this one or also

01:07:00.700 all of them go out

01:07:01.620 at 7pm UK time.

01:07:02.700 And for those of

01:07:03.300 you who like your

01:07:03.800 trigonometry on the

01:07:04.780 go, it's always

01:07:05.820 available as a

01:07:06.440 podcast.

01:07:07.260 Take care and see

01:07:08.220 you soon, guys.

01:07:10.700 Labour government

01:07:11.500 seems inevitable, as

01:07:12.760 you've already alluded

01:07:13.500 to.

01:07:14.360 Where do you think

01:07:15.400 they will take the

01:07:16.220 relationship with the

01:07:17.060 EU?

01:07:17.440 Well, let's go

01:07:19.140 Shall we follow

01:07:19.960 this week?

01:07:20.240 Yeah.

01:07:21.220 Bye.

01:07:22.400 Let's go.

01:07:22.900 We'll be right back.

01:07:23.240 Bye.

01:07:23.560 Bye.

01:07:24.120 Bye.

01:07:31.980 Bye.

01:07:32.120 Bye.

01:07:32.420 Bye.

01:07:32.720 Bye.

01:07:32.940 Bye.

01:07:33.020 Bye.

01:07:34.000 Bye.

01:07:34.820 Bye.

01:07:34.860 Bye.

01:07:35.480 Bye.

01:07:35.760 Bye.

01:07:35.880 Bye.

01:07:36.020 Bye.

01:07:36.160 Bye.

01:07:36.600 Bye.

01:07:36.740 Bye.

01:07:37.080 Bye.

01:07:37.860 Bye.

01:07:38.180 Bye.

01:07:38.500 Bye.

01:07:38.560 Bye.

01:07:38.640 Bye.

01:07:39.400 Bye.

01:07:43.440 Bye.

01:07:44.100 Bye.

01:07:44.460 Bye.

01:07:44.660 Bye.

01:07:45.240 Bye.

01:07:45.400 Bye.

TRIGGERnometry - February 09, 2023

Nigel Farage：＂We're Heading for a Political Revolution＂

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

TRIGGERnometry - February 09, 2023

Nigel Farage： ＂We're Heading for a Political Revolution＂

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Nigel Farage：＂We're Heading for a Political Revolution＂