TRIGGERnometry - Our Thoughts on Tommy Interview, Migrant Protests and Haters

00:00:00.000 what did you make of it overall our conversation with tommy you know it's very interesting because

00:00:07.840 when i was talking to him and i was listening to him he changed my mind on him as a person

00:00:12.880 deal with this problem because if you don't you're making the inevitable inevitable all credit to him

00:00:19.080 he went away had a think he did a public apology and i actually respected jimmy for this but they

00:00:24.580 never want to put themselves in the firing line if you start speaking to people about it if you go

00:00:31.040 to bradford and you talk to people who have been affected by this issue but they don't they do not

00:00:36.880 want their worldview to be shattered and it would be if they actually reckoned with what they were

00:00:42.300 being told i'm really past it with these people and my message to them is go yourself you went to

00:00:48.500 a migrant hotel a couple of days ago you went it was in canary wharf what were your experiences of it

00:00:54.000 i think the key divide that i would say is relax relax this isn't an ad did you know that you

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00:01:59.380 online so francis we did one of these conversations between you and i a month ago and we don't tend to do

00:02:08.820 them this frequently but after our interview with tommy robinson the most requested thing on our

00:02:14.940 substack community was that we talk about our thoughts on that interview but a bunch of other

00:02:20.200 things have also happened in the meantime uh as well so we just thought we'd take an hour and discuss

00:02:25.900 a bunch of the things that our audience really cares about absolutely so i think the first thing to do

00:02:30.700 is you went to a migrant hotel a couple of days ago you went it was in canary wharf it's a great video

00:02:37.040 if people haven't seen it i really urge them to go and watch it what were your experiences of it

00:02:42.480 well so i went along to the protest and it wasn't just a protest for or against it was actually two

00:02:48.220 groups of people so there was a protest uh by quote-unquote anti-racism protesters uh at five

00:02:55.440 and then at six that very same day on a friday uh there was a anti-migrant hotel protest and and so

00:03:02.360 you can't and then eventually it was just both of them at the same time um and canary wharf is an

00:03:07.580 interesting area because we actually people won't know this but there was a period in the show's

00:03:11.880 history when we used to rent a big apartment in that area uh and we filmed in the living room of

00:03:17.640 that and the three of us me you and our producer then producer anton we we used to live there most

00:03:22.180 of the time um so we know the area well and it was kind of fascinating first and foremost because

00:03:27.620 there's some debate by the way in that video i said that the hotel is about 470 pounds a night

00:03:32.620 that is what it says on google and uh various other kind of booking places but maybe it's not

00:03:40.200 that all rooms are that price some rooms are maybe cheaper but nonetheless as you people will know the

00:03:45.580 reason i'm talking about canary wharf is as most people will know who know london it's a very expensive

00:03:50.440 area absolutely basically where there's a big financial center there and the only residential

00:03:55.640 apartments there are for the people that work in these places mostly in big skyscrapers right

00:04:01.260 so it's a very expensive area a hotel in this area is not going to be cheap by definition uh so

00:04:07.720 why is that happening why are people being put in these hotels one of the reasons is as i talked

00:04:13.840 about in the video is last year everyone will remember the riots the riots were in very deprived

00:04:19.360 areas they were in very poor areas and that and that's because if you want to save taxpayers

00:04:24.700 money when you're housing tens of thousands of illegal immigrants you're going to put them in cheap

00:04:29.700 areas that did not work out very well because if you have areas where people don't have a lot of

00:04:36.160 jobs don't have many opportunities and at the same time you're having this happen in their community

00:04:41.500 where people who are really struggling are watching somebody be put up at taxpayers expense be given

00:04:47.420 spending money all sorts of other benefits access to the nhs all of these things that is a mixture

00:04:53.820 that is just a recipe for disaster particularly when the country is in the state that it's in anyway

00:04:58.020 right so then they've started putting them in more wealthy areas well areas where maybe there's a

00:05:04.380 less rooted community where people are less likely to kick off although to be fair it is on the border

00:05:10.140 of the docklands which is like the millwall supporters area as we saw in the video because a bunch of them

00:05:14.460 did turn up right um but i was i was interested to go for that reason to see you know how the government

00:05:19.960 is effectively trying to avoid the scrutiny that they would get otherwise um the protest itself

00:05:25.600 not massive i'd say probably a hundred people on each side of the line would talk to people on both

00:05:30.900 sides had a lot of difficulty and people will see that in the video getting the the anti-racism

00:05:37.060 protesters to talk because they seem very organized i don't know why exactly and that's something we

00:05:43.460 should perhaps look into but all their all their uh placards are professionally made they look very

00:05:49.900 organized i think there's an organization called stand up to racism that effectively organizes all of

00:05:54.880 the stuff and a lot of the people there they almost seem to me now i'm not making any judgment in the

00:06:01.920 sense of i'm not saying they are paid protesters i don't i'm not claiming that i have no evidence for

00:06:07.120 that but what they do seem i was going to use the term career protesters in the sense that they seem to

00:06:14.080 be people who go along to protest after protest after protest in different areas they get these

00:06:19.800 professional emulate placards there's a professional organizer they have a media strategy which is they

00:06:24.920 don't what they said to me uh directly is we don't talk to incels in their bedrooms i mean

00:06:30.560 they they needed me to have an official journalist card to talk to me so they they bet what i'm saying is

00:06:39.640 they've been briefed effectively on how to behave right i was later able to talk to some uh perfectly

00:06:45.600 nice people uh who who who were not of that type they were just clearly people who'd come along

00:06:50.460 and join that side but the ones that were there at the beginning and the bulk of that group

00:06:55.700 they were people who who clearly it's it's it's not if it's not their job it's only the occupation

00:07:02.140 it's what they do right they go along to this protest um and a point as well is that when i did um

00:07:09.300 i went to a palestine protest at ucla i had the exact same experience with a pro-palestine

00:07:15.880 protest they refused to engage and they refused to speak yeah so it's it seems to be a tactic not

00:07:22.020 only over here yeah not but also over there and for a variety of different issues as well and one of

00:07:28.300 the things we didn't include in the video as well is at the beginning when i was trying to speak to

00:07:31.780 people i did start speaking to a woman who was a local resident and the difficulty i had particularly

00:07:37.160 that it might not be as interesting to other people as it is to me because i'm always obsessed

00:07:41.380 about language but um there's a there's obviously a a debate about how to frame this issue right and

00:07:50.800 there there's different ways that you might describe people who have entered this country

00:07:55.800 without having permission to do so right most i think people who don't know too much about this issue

00:08:02.660 who are not partisan on it will say that they're illegal immigrants right there's legal immigrants

00:08:07.840 which is people who came here by the proper process and then there's people who entered this

00:08:11.920 country without having permission to do so right which is illegal you would think but uh on the other

00:08:18.980 side of that discussion they they the term that they use either refugees or asylum seekers and there are

00:08:24.600 reasons for this um for example i think under the 1951 convention if you enter a how you enter a

00:08:31.460 country it doesn't matter if you apply for asylum you are an asylum seeker or you're a refugee you're

00:08:36.480 not an illegal immigrant until i think a a bill came in uh under soella braverman who actually made it

00:08:42.600 illegal to enter a country without permission so the moment i started talking to this woman this isn't in

00:08:48.600 our video and i said the words illegal immigrant she immediately went oh you're one of them you you belong

00:08:54.460 with the far right go over there because language is partly how how all of this is negotiated so you in the

00:09:01.680 video i'm using all three terms interchangeably because i'm trying desperately to get everyone's

00:09:07.420 perspective and i think most people who are reasonably minded will see i am genuinely curious about why

00:09:12.560 people think what they think i'm not trying to show them to be bad or nefarious or whatever um and another

00:09:18.620 woman i talked to again this isn't on camera because there was a lot of shouting whatever

00:09:22.200 i uh i started one of the things i found as well with the so-called anti-racism protesters

00:09:28.220 is they are extremely skeptical of anyone asking them like um follow-up questions so if if they say

00:09:38.880 you know the far right are here to blah blah blah and you say when you say the far right who do you mean

00:09:44.220 they immediately say well you're the far right then go over there literally uh to the point and

00:09:49.400 one time you see it in the video uh they say that i was being uh forceful when i'm just asking them to

00:09:56.100 talk to me and another time there was a journalist from a turkish tv channel called trt i've actually been

00:10:01.960 on it who interfered in an interview that i was doing and said you're being provocative when i said to the

00:10:09.060 to the woman that i was talking to so when you said the far right like who do you mean on and she

00:10:13.700 started saying you're being provocative and i was like what do you mean and she's like maybe you

00:10:17.620 don't understand because you're a man all of this other stuff tell me what brings you here today

00:10:21.880 um i live locally i live in poplar um i've lived here since the early 80s i lived here before any of

00:10:27.920 this was built um i used to be a counselor here many years ago when um the fascist bmp council was

00:10:35.660 elected uh we booted him off the isle of dogs um and now we're going to get these people off the

00:10:40.820 island dogs which people because the only people i see are the anti uh racist protest anti-far right

00:10:46.940 protest so who are you who would you like to get out of here um i think all the really ugly thugs that

00:10:51.500 are just over there you know if that's a master race you can keep it which one sorry

00:10:56.420 what about the bloke who's just here well that guy was annoying but i think he's filming but who are

00:11:02.160 you talking about do you know him look are you okay are you okay with this conversation i'm not

00:11:11.740 sure actually i'm wondering where you're coming from i i just which people are you talking about

00:11:16.840 because i walked past some guys and i asked them if they're here for the protest he had like masks on

00:11:20.420 and stuff and they said they're just here for the football and now they've disappeared so i don't

00:11:24.200 see them well there's several people around particularly that bloke there so you know

00:11:28.660 maybe if you go back and have a look again okay you'll see some very unsavory characters and

00:11:33.300 they're the danger not the refugees uh-huh and uh what are your i'm sorry are you from a media

00:11:40.720 organization i'm just telling i'm just speaking to somebody and that's all right but why are you

00:11:45.440 interfering in my interview just telling her if she's comfortable with this then she's an adult

00:11:50.200 she's perfectly capable i asked her would you mind just stepping away while i'm doing this interview

00:11:55.000 how what do you mean how do i belong on the other side of the road like what was that about what

00:12:04.020 i'm being aggressive by asking which people she means so if someone says there are people on the

00:12:13.600 other side of the street who are the problem and i say which people are they could you explain how

00:12:19.520 i can't answer that question you just said i'm being provocative in what way i thought you

00:12:25.040 thank you you're asking each other i'm just asking what you mean when you say i was being

00:12:31.220 provocative no you don't but you said i'm being provocative so i'm wondering what you mean

00:12:35.860 if you don't if you don't have the social awareness skills to know what's provocative or not i really

00:12:40.560 can't help you i really can't she said that there are because you're a man and i'm a woman you

00:12:45.080 were also speaking to another one you wouldn't quite understand the nuances of that but i was

00:12:48.440 uncomfortable i said you were uncomfortable as well okay so there's a lot of this like control

00:12:54.260 going on and therefore it does not feel very organic to me you see what i mean because it's all

00:13:00.840 tightly controlled on that side uh so that's that's what i would say about the kind of

00:13:06.620 quote-unquote anti-racism side on the other side um you know you you have a mix of people there

00:13:12.320 are some very reasonable concerned local residents you had a bunch of mill wall type of

00:13:18.200 but i and i think they fact in fact they said it to me that they were mill wall supporters and

00:13:22.500 whenever i tried to talk to them they the bunch of them had masks on um and they would say

00:13:27.380 oh we're just here for the football mate you know and that was it they wouldn't talk to to you about

00:13:32.140 anything and just for clarification for our overseas viewers mill wall football club is a

00:13:36.960 football club that was uh it's been notorious because it's association with violence and

00:13:42.180 hooliganism yeah and is it fair to say racism as well yes yeah yeah we can say that yeah i don't think

00:13:47.460 they were they were known for their progressing so no no i'm not saying those specific people that

00:13:52.960 were there were all of those things but i wouldn't want to be on the sharp end of a

00:13:57.940 confrontation with them let's put it that way that was my impression right uh and there was one guy

00:14:02.780 who turned up who who clearly was off his nut on something he was shouting bomb them bomb them

00:14:07.360 into the camera we've got them on camera i think yeah yeah uh though you know as always there's a few

00:14:13.360 kind of conspiracy people to the great reset and all this other stuff you interviewed one of them

00:14:18.020 yeah i did and she made a lot of good points and then talked about the great reset all in one so

00:14:23.520 you know what do you know but i think the key divide that i would say is um well first of all both

00:14:31.120 sides are very angry very very angry uh and that makes sense because if you're going to go to

00:14:38.320 a protest you probably are going to have to be quite angry most people have especially when the

00:14:43.160 summer is nice it's our three days of sunshine a year in england you know most people aren't going

00:14:48.160 to be spending their friday afternoon early evening doing that um but the main divide i would say is

00:14:54.340 the central divide that i was able to discern is the people who are effectively there to say oh you

00:15:01.440 know illegal immigration asylum refugees whatever we we need to be welcoming whatever their world

00:15:07.780 worldview is everyone is the same and they are it's the it's the beatles imagine there's no border

00:15:15.600 borders it's easy if you try it's that worldview and the people on the other side

00:15:21.600 recognize what i think is true and we know this from the statistics that not all people not all cultures

00:15:30.300 not all ethnic groups behave in the same ways you can say that they have the same dignity as a human

00:15:36.080 being and should be having should have access to the same human rights and all of that but that does

00:15:40.920 not mean that they behave in the same ways and we know statistically speaking that there are groups

00:15:45.400 that are way more likely to commit certain crimes sexual assault for example right which is skyrocketing

00:15:50.920 in britain at the moment um and i think the protesters who are against housing asylum seekers

00:15:57.320 illegal immigrants in these hotels recognize that reality while the people on the other side are

00:16:02.620 often they've got a very nice and a very kind approach but it doesn't necessarily grapple with

00:16:09.580 the reality of this issue which is when you have a bunch of young men come in from cultures where

00:16:14.800 let's be honest they don't respect women especially women who are not of their tribe of their religion

00:16:20.920 whatever you're going to get problems um and we are sitting here today recording this on the day

00:16:29.660 when 50 000 illegal immigrants have come into this country since the last election now the last election

00:16:36.320 was last summer so in a year 50 000 people have come now what what does that mean what are those

00:16:41.800 statistics right when i came to this country 1996 is when i moved permanently to this country

00:16:48.180 55 000 people a year came into this country legally we now have that same number of people coming

00:16:57.960 illegally every year that that is extreme and when you do extreme things you have to expect an

00:17:07.260 extreme reaction which is why i think there's so much tension about this issue now and also as well

00:17:13.360 you have to factor in the economic situation in this country we have a cost of living crisis i know

00:17:18.140 everything is a crisis in this country but for the average person in this country making it to the

00:17:24.660 end of the month is a real struggle so if you've done you if you do your job you're nine to five

00:17:31.060 whatever it may be and you put food on the table for your kids you pay your rent your mortgage your

00:17:35.720 bills which have skyrocketed because of our delusions with them for net zero and all the rest of it

00:17:40.960 and you make it to the end of the month that for most people in this country is a win

00:17:45.460 that's how most people live now if you see people coming over and getting housed in like a hotel like

00:17:52.840 the britannia hotel which is a luxury hotel and they get everything paid for that quite naturally

00:17:59.980 arouses anger and frustration particularly if you're from a community which is deprived which is

00:18:06.060 struggling which you can see that there's homelessness there's problems with drug addiction

00:18:10.160 services are being cut and you're going well hang on why is it that the money that goes should go to

00:18:17.540 british people everything's being cut there is no money we're consistently being told that we're

00:18:23.520 bankrupt yeah we're housing migrants in you know in luxury hotels and they're getting given everything

00:18:30.300 and yet i can't get a gp and i've been a taxpayer for 30 40 50 years where's the fairness so that is an

00:18:38.360 added layer to it is that people are really angry and frustrated and quite rightly so and then what

00:18:44.360 they see and they perceive is this i mean not a two-tier system but certainly certainly there's an

00:18:52.340 injustice happening there and they see it as preferential and they're angry and they've got

00:18:56.540 every right to be so that is also a real there's a real injustice there and and british people

00:19:04.620 people always go oh there's no two thing is british culture which is obviously rubbish one of the

00:19:09.140 central facets of british culture is the importance of fairness it's the importance of fairness you know

00:19:15.320 that it's fair that you don't cheat that it's you know that's you know be a good sport the news moves

00:19:21.600 fast and it's not just about keeping up it's about seeing clearly in a world where headlines are

00:19:27.220 constantly shifting and narratives change by the hour understanding how a story is being reported

00:19:32.540 is just as important as what the story is that's why i use ground news it shows you how coverage of

00:19:39.320 any story differs across the political spectrum helping you break out of echo chambers and actually

00:19:44.880 see the full picture take the recent landmark uk supreme court ruling on the legal definition of

00:19:50.140 woman using ground news we can see that cnn which leans left ran with uk supreme court says legal

00:19:56.900 definition of woman excludes trans women the spectator which leans right led with the supreme

00:20:02.360 court ruling is a victory for women same story two completely different takes ground news makes

00:20:08.560 these contrasts easy to spot by letting you compare headlines at a glance it also shows you ownership

00:20:14.160 information like the ownership status of both cnn and the spectator my favorite feature is the blind

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00:20:25.480 realize you're missing so you can stay informed without being trapped in a single world view

00:20:30.080 click the link in the description or head to ground.news slash trigonometry for 40 percent off their

00:20:36.360 unlimited vantage plan the same one we use more than a million people have already downloaded the ground

00:20:41.960 news app if you care about seeing every side of the story join them today and you know you and i've

00:20:48.300 talked about this before but and it are your family immigrant background and my background as well

00:20:54.060 helps to know this it's not like this everywhere at all and this idea that you know the high trust

00:21:01.980 society the britain let's be honest used to be yes right i remember how shocked my parents were when

00:21:07.460 they could come they could come to britain and they could deposit money in a bank with just a signature

00:21:12.360 or withdraw money from a bank with just a signature or do lots of things with just oh just sign here

00:21:16.480 yeah that that's how it was in the 90s right i remember that now look technology has changed and blah blah

00:21:20.760 blah but my point is in russia you'd need to get like five documents with a stamp and a seal and a

00:21:26.180 this and a that to get anything done because otherwise people would take advantage of it of

00:21:33.320 course because because you said you talked about this before you know in venezuela you were saying

00:21:37.260 if i can screw you over and you let me well that's my job to screw you over right yeah that is how it

00:21:44.740 works and what's more you're the idiot because you let yourself be screwed over yeah so you're stupid

00:21:50.460 and i'm the smart one do you know it reminds me of an experience i had once when i used to work as

00:21:54.920 a translator i once translated uh a contract that was being negotiated as it was being negotiated in

00:22:01.420 the room and i remember after like a full hard days of negotiating between some russian guys and some

00:22:07.540 british guys uh the russian guy at the end they went through they signed everything and at the end there

00:22:12.420 were like empty spaces at the bottom of the page uh on a couple of pages and the russian guy went

00:22:17.900 through and like crossed them out so they couldn't be filled in any any way yeah and the other guy

00:22:22.940 the british guy looked at it and joked and he went well i can see this is a relationship based on trust

00:22:28.200 and the other guy looked at him and went the last time i didn't do this it cost me five million dollars

00:22:33.760 yeah because that's how it is right so when we talk about britishness including fairness and by the

00:22:40.800 way we joke about queuing right but queuing is in an incredibly important tiny little expression of

00:22:48.220 civilization yeah which is we all agree to play by the system and rules so that it's no longer about

00:22:55.900 who's got the sharpest elbows that's what civilization actually looks yes now if you think

00:23:00.960 about what illegal immigration is it's fundamentally people queue barging yeah it's queue barging and on top

00:23:08.460 of that they're getting into a place into which they're not supposed to be getting into exactly

00:23:13.040 it's like we're all queuing to use the analogy of getting into a nightclub the one in one out the

00:23:17.940 policy that we will talk about and these people aren't even queuing up they're not even jumping

00:23:23.580 through they're just literally going through barging past the bouncer going to the bar getting getting a

00:23:29.720 couple of free drinks and grabbing the waitress's ass yeah and then going and sitting down and then

00:23:34.120 everybody else is going well right hang on a minute is that and the our politicians are going well

00:23:40.900 that's fine it's their human rights it's a human rights and more to the point if you get upset about

00:23:47.660 it there's certain people now thankfully they're decreasing in number because the problem is now

00:23:52.640 become so undeniable that they can't actually push back against it anymore but there was a point where

00:23:58.800 like why are you getting upset with the people barging into the nightclub why are you getting upset you

00:24:03.980 must be racist is that it is it because they're brown or they're muslim and you're like well no

00:24:08.340 because i don't like people barging in because it is not fair and for a system to work but any system

00:24:16.960 to work there needs to be rules and the rules need to be applied and enforced and by the way you know i

00:24:23.340 heard a talking point from one of the the people on the protest she didn't say to me she said to someone

00:24:28.000 else and she said well of course these people are racist look they didn't have a problem with

00:24:32.440 ukrainians coming here as refugees right but that isn't how ukrainians came here no ukrainians applied

00:24:39.300 to come here i know this because i have ukrainian friends who've come to britain as refugees they

00:24:44.880 applied through the proper process and those of them that didn't get approved didn't come they didn't

00:24:50.540 travel to france they didn't go to calais they didn't sleep in a tent or in the forest and they

00:24:55.200 didn't get on a boat and then they didn't barge into this country illegally and they weren't brought

00:24:59.640 here by people smugglers right and so this is kind of the thing that people need to understand is

00:25:04.020 the british people and i think this is worth restating again even now even now even when the

00:25:10.840 country is at fever pitch even when people are becoming very concerned about this issue the

00:25:15.600 british people are incredibly welcoming and tolerant of people from other countries they are incredibly

00:25:21.080 incredibly willing to help and support those in need and you can see it with the fact that we have

00:25:27.280 welcomed hundreds of thousands of people from hong kong from ukraine and from other parts of the

00:25:31.520 world recently where we're like well the country is at war of course we're going to help out right

00:25:36.820 but we what we do not appreciate is people taking the piss and what we don't appreciate as well let's be

00:25:43.120 honest a lot of these people are not refugees yeah they're just not they're not refugees they're not

00:25:49.800 coming from countries that are at war they're coming from poor countries they're coming from countries

00:25:53.440 that are not great places to live i don't blame them for wanting a better life right but the fact

00:25:59.220 is the reason we have a visa system and an immigration system and the reason we have rules

00:26:04.840 is because we do not want everyone who would like to come here to come here that's just that's the way

00:26:10.260 a country works right that's the point of the rules exactly so people cannot be breaking them they

00:26:16.760 just can't and this is what people don't understand so everybody can drink so when i was when i was

00:26:22.540 teaching i taught in very deprived areas very very deprived areas and i taught kids who francis you

00:26:27.960 know you've said that so many times but i don't think we've ever delved into it and i think a lot

00:26:32.820 of people don't actually know what that means can you paint us a picture of what when you say a

00:26:37.640 deprived area a lot of people have not taught in those schools they have not lived in those

00:26:41.080 communities what do you mean so what i mean is is that you will go every day into a school which is

00:26:47.120 minority white where a lot of the kids more the vast majority will be on free school meals

00:26:53.060 a lot of them will be first generation immigrant background not necessarily from different not

00:27:00.240 necessarily non-european there will be europeans there but quite a lot of the kids will be from

00:27:04.620 a refugee background so i taught iraqi refugees i taught syrian refugees i taught afghanistan refugees

00:27:10.540 from afghanistan little children as well as a whole plethora of other children when a child comes

00:27:16.460 from a different part of the world that is non-english speaking it costs a lot of money

00:27:21.520 to support that child you need to get specialist teachers who are english who are trained to teach

00:27:28.680 english as an additional language eal is what it's called now if you don't have that if you don't put

00:27:36.480 that in place then what you are effectively doing is dooming a child to failure because you were just

00:27:42.080 dropping him into a classroom with 30 other children a lot of them who've got a lot of needs

00:27:47.300 because this is the poorest of the poor so there'll be kids there who are autistic and are not sometimes

00:27:53.720 non-verbal so you've got those types of kids you've got kids who have got dyslexia you've got

00:28:00.120 kids who have got really serious comes from deprived backgrounds what you're talking about is a lot of them

00:28:05.920 don't have dads around a lot of them have experienced violence in the home addiction in the home addiction

00:28:10.640 in the home so you've got all of these different and it's 30 of them in a class and it's 30 of them

00:28:16.560 in a class and you've got to teach them and you've got to ensure that they all make progress and you've

00:28:22.520 got kids who have potentially have the ability to go to university as well as kids who intellectually

00:28:28.160 are very very very low ability and need additional support yeah the only reason i was asking is i think

00:28:35.040 it's important for people to understand what you're talking about you do a really great job

00:28:38.980 of talking about this in your upcoming book yeah describing all of that stuff in a funny way

00:28:43.180 um but you were saying you know you having taught in these deprived areas it gives you a perspective

00:28:48.880 on this issue it gives you a perspective because what you effectively see is then they bring in these

00:28:54.480 children and these children don't have english as a first or second as a first language or even a

00:29:00.760 second language maybe some of them they don't even speak english now some of them haven't even been

00:29:06.400 to school for a number of years because they've been refugees so they've been maybe they lived in syria

00:29:13.000 and then they've then they've been into a variety of other countries before making their way to britain

00:29:18.480 so education they're two three or even five years behind and then you drop that child into a classroom

00:29:25.560 and you're going oh they're going to be able to perform and access the curriculum like everyone

00:29:30.580 else well look the reality is my view on that is actually you know to the extent that britain

00:29:37.600 democratically speaking wants to have some refugees come absolutely right uh then we could we could deal

00:29:45.220 with that we we could get the right support in place but not when the numbers are like this like if we

00:29:50.480 took a thousand syrians over five years and we made sure that they were from a background that was

00:29:55.980 compatible maybe they were christians fleeing persecution in syria uh etc then you could put some resources

00:30:02.760 in place to get extra english or whatever it is you need but when when when it's like this when you

00:30:09.460 you're basically being swamped when the number of people coming illegally is the same number that were coming

00:30:15.140 legally 20 years ago at that point 30 years ago actually i'm older than i think in my head right 30 years ago

00:30:23.000 then at that point the entire system becomes overwhelmed and then by the way it's not just those children

00:30:28.080 that suffer i bet you you had some working class british kids yeah who were probably the worst off of the law

00:30:34.960 in those classrooms yeah absolutely right and they're getting screwed as well and they're getting

00:30:39.160 screwed because you only have a finite amount of resources so what eventually happens is that

00:30:45.220 everything gets spread so thinly that the the final result is everybody loses because the system simply

00:30:52.220 can't cope so you can have this utopian worldview in which you say let's filling over open our borders

00:30:58.260 and let's accept everybody okay fine but who's going to pay for it because it costs a lot of money to be

00:31:04.820 able to integrate these children and i agree we should accept refugees but what we need to do

00:31:09.620 is have a very honest and direct conversation even a challenging conversation i'd say and go look

00:31:17.300 what are the numbers is it 20 000 is it 50 000 but let's be honest francis it's not just about the

00:31:23.480 numbers and this is where we come to our interview with tommy robinson because i thought that we'll talk

00:31:27.880 about a lot there's a lot to discuss in that interview but i think the most profound point he made is

00:31:33.920 actually in the sub stack portion of the conversation which people can go and watch if they want to

00:31:37.660 triggerpod.co.uk when we were talking and he basically said you know angela merkel david cameron

00:31:43.500 they all say multiculturalism's failed everyone says multiculturalism's failed and he's like no it hasn't

00:31:49.420 it's not multiculturalism that's failed what and and and you know i i have been saying this in a

00:31:55.160 more diplomatic way for a long time but let's do it like this right you you co-host with me a youtube

00:32:02.780 channel that has focused on the immigration issue quite a bit right off the top of your head what

00:32:07.980 would you say are the top three issues that you would associate with ukrainian immigration in this

00:32:14.000 country the problems they've caused it sounds like a joke the only thing i can is is that woman who

00:32:21.800 moved in with that bloke and then he he saw his wife saw the young attractive ukrainian refugee and then

00:32:28.140 went mate eastern european women are brilliant what can i say but yeah do you see my point right

00:32:34.460 what about hong kongers tens of thousands of hong kongers have moved to britain they're probably

00:32:38.840 very concentrated in london have they caused what are the problems that we are there hong khanese

00:32:43.960 grooming gangs that we're aware of no other hong khanese crime syndicates right do you know

00:32:49.440 there's a place called new malden near where i grew up in south london 97 percent of the korean

00:32:55.480 population of the uk live in new malden right they cause they cause one problem the driving is

00:33:01.920 fucking dreadful it sounds like a racist joke but it actually is but apart from that i've taught and

00:33:08.540 i taught in schools in that area the kids are well behaved the parents are all engaged two parent

00:33:13.840 families they care passionately about education a large portion of the kids want to go on and then go

00:33:19.640 to university and you go to new malden it's clean it's nice you know right and you also get a great

00:33:27.000 korean so exactly now that's the most important thing for you obviously and we could we could go

00:33:32.140 down the list but i think everybody understands the point that i'm making right it is not immigration

00:33:37.720 look mass immigration is a problem because when you have these large numbers coming so quickly it's

00:33:42.140 difficult but broadly speaking it's not people coming from other countries it's people who are

00:33:49.540 coming and bringing things with them that we do not want in this country right people who are as a

00:33:56.260 friend of in richard minita is a former guest of ours by the way that episode has just hit a million

00:34:00.120 views every single one of those is fully deserved yeah uh he messaged me saying the distinction is

00:34:05.520 between people who are fleeing oppression who are bringing oppression and that's that's really what

00:34:10.040 we're talking about right is it's problems with very specific communities and i'm not saying that

00:34:16.320 i know exactly how to slice and divide it you know tommy's view is the problem is islam i i think that's

00:34:22.560 maybe a little bit i think that's probably too generalizing because the point i made to him is like

00:34:29.340 omani yeah people from oman in britain or from saudi arabia or from lots of parts of the middle east

00:34:37.060 are not causing problems in this country so when you say the problem is islam what maybe what he

00:34:42.480 means is the doctrine of islam and we talked a lot about that in the interview in the last part which

00:34:47.480 i thought was the best part of it um but my point is when we just talk about immigration generally

00:34:53.680 outside illegal immigration which is just wrong and shouldn't be happening

00:34:56.560 i think he's onto something very much when he talks about the fact that the problem is is not

00:35:03.520 universal to immigration the problem is within very particular ways of behaving that do seem to come

00:35:09.820 from very particular groups of people and the thing that i find very interesting is you see these

00:35:14.440 left-wing people or very less not left-wing but these progressives who talk about this issue in the

00:35:22.680 manner that they talk about through this i would call it a utopian lens it's a utopian lens let's open

00:35:28.320 up the borders it's easy if you try all of this world view have they been to bradford have they

00:35:36.740 been to a lot of these deprived communities up north they haven't been they haven't been they

00:35:42.420 haven't experienced it they haven't been to a lot of these you know telford they haven't been to

00:35:48.900 these places so they haven't seen the reality but and it's far easier to be utopian if you haven't

00:35:55.380 seen the brutal reality of what these policies entail but don't they think that all people are the

00:36:00.980 same therefore the fact that these communities that you're talking about are essentially no longer

00:36:05.400 england they they the fact that i've just said this out loud to them would be horrific no but yes

00:36:11.780 i agree but i think there comes a point where you can have an idea in your head but if you go

00:36:18.080 somewhere and you're confronted with the reality that utterly obliterates your fantasy but what is

00:36:27.620 what what but what i'm saying to you is what is it that obliterates their fantasy in bradford

00:36:32.520 what is it the grooming gangs but but the grooming gangs you know it's like they they all say well

00:36:39.320 white people commit rape but if you it's are you saying there's something wrong with women walking

00:36:46.160 around in the book are you saying there's something wrong with the population of a major

00:36:49.720 town in britain being majority muslim is that what you're saying because to these people those are

00:36:54.700 things that they wouldn't even consider as problems out loud anyway but if you look if you investigate

00:37:02.320 into this issue if you look into it if you start speaking to people about it if you go to bradford

00:37:09.100 and you talk to people who have been affected by this issue but they don't and this is my don't they

00:37:14.960 don't on purpose yeah and this is my point then you cannot deny the brutal reality of what these

00:37:21.860 policies have created you can't and this is why you and i have been on a journey because this is the

00:37:26.680 thing i remember emily made list when they had rupert lowe on um on news agents i don't know maybe she

00:37:32.800 has interviewed uh grooming gang victims i don't know but i i think it's quite difficult to maintain the

00:37:38.320 sort of pretenses that these people do once you've sat across as you and i have done a number of young

00:37:45.460 women who've had just the most horrific experiences that you would not wish on your worst enemy and to

00:37:53.600 listen to them talk about the fact that they were targeted because they were white that's what happened

00:37:59.060 yeah they were targeted because they were seen as the other in their own country

00:38:06.020 and once you once you have had that experience of talking to somebody like that and you've sat across

00:38:13.460 from them and you have heard their story i it never leaves you no and it changes how you see this issue

00:38:20.520 it just does which is why all these people avoid doing it yeah and it makes me so angry i i i'm getting

00:38:26.840 emotional which is rare for me but those experiences those interviews we've done with victims of grooming

00:38:32.140 gangs are some of i i'll be honest with you i do not look forward to them no i do not because it's

00:38:37.860 horrific and it's not like i'm the victim in that situation exactly but i'm just saying that could be

00:38:43.860 why they avoid doing that but i think another part of the reason they avoid doing that is they do not

00:38:48.320 want their worldview to be shattered and it would be if they actually reckoned with what they were being

00:38:54.020 told yeah because i remember last the last interview we did with maggie oliver and jade uh i had a meeting

00:39:02.760 with my director uh for my stand-up and we were sitting down and we write together and so i finished

00:39:09.660 the interview i went to london we went to a coffee shop i ordered some food got a coffee and we sat down

00:39:16.420 to write and i i just couldn't i just couldn't write i couldn't i was trying and i was trying to

00:39:23.020 be funny and she was going to me what's up what's happened and i went i i've just interviewed a a woman

00:39:31.300 who's a grooming gang victim who told me about how she got gang raped by 10 men when she was 14 years

00:39:38.980 old they pried her with drink and then they gang raped her in a toilet at mcdonald's and she went

00:39:44.540 francis i don't think now is the time to try and write comedy and i then went and did a comedy show

00:39:54.040 in the evening and it it wasn't good i mean like because another victim of on the real victim mate

00:40:01.640 no but it's because you don't realize like when you listen to these stories just the profound impact

00:40:09.620 not that it has on you because you're watching a fellow human being suffer and it's very easy to have

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00:42:00.160 i thought that was probably the most powerful thing about our conversation with tommy

00:42:04.420 is that and he mentioned this to you he said you know that and when you were talking about

00:42:07.760 sir david ames and he said you know that emotion you're feeling i can see it now imagine what it's

00:42:12.880 like for people where in our towns a lot of this has been happening and we know the people

00:42:18.120 they are friends they're our neighbors whatever you know um because to a lot of people and look

00:42:23.720 this was us as well before we we like seven years ago before we knew anything about it you read about

00:42:28.920 something in the paper and then you go to work and oh you know grooming guys okay cool oh oh donald

00:42:34.060 trump's done this oh this and you just skip over these realities uh but i think one of the things

00:42:41.280 tommy is very good at is bringing these stories to life and i'm very glad we had him on and um i know

00:42:49.180 you've had people from the comedy industry messaging you saying you're evil and whatever for us having

00:42:53.760 that conversation i i the only messages i've had this is from people like i told you in the like i

00:43:01.340 told tommy in the main interview in the media in politics uh in comedy in entertainment mainstream

00:43:08.500 people the people you turn on your tv tomorrow you see these people they all said it was the best

00:43:14.260 interview we've ever done yeah and one of the things that a lot of people said which i really

00:43:19.080 think is true even though it it's praise but i do think it's true is that very often when people

00:43:25.740 have conversations with tommy it's either he's the devil or he's jesus yeah he's the savior whereas i

00:43:32.740 thought we just talked to him like we would to anyone else which is like you know i totally agree

00:43:36.280 with this but what about that and we were fair yeah and that's it i found it very interesting

00:43:41.940 the pushback i got from some people in the comedy community because they use this word with me that

00:43:46.420 has been used against you very recently which is the word grifter and i interpret that word i've read

00:43:53.580 a bit about that word i interpret that word to mean somebody who takes positions or uh has opinions

00:43:59.460 that they don't believe in purely for notoriety or financial gain and i find it very interesting

00:44:06.580 because to me what it shows from the progressive mindset this person who's you use that word against

00:44:11.840 me is that they can't believe that they are so morally pure and correct that they can't believe

00:44:19.960 that somebody would disagree and if you disagree it's not because it's not because you think differently

00:44:28.140 it's because you were cynical and that is a very interesting worldview in that everybody believes this

00:44:36.260 deep down because we know it's true so if you disagree that means that you are immoral and you

00:44:43.000 know the truth but you deny it it's very similar to this opinion that the whole world is exactly like us

00:44:50.220 which we talked about in our interview with tom holland this kind of christian worldview

00:44:54.960 but the whole world ain't christian my friend

00:44:58.500 and uh you know what uh i'm really past it with these people and my message to them is go fuck

00:45:06.060 yourself honestly i'm serious go fuck yourself because if you don't want to engage with these

00:45:10.960 conversations i respect that but when you judge people without knowing what motivates them without

00:45:15.680 having sat in their shoes walked in their shoes sat in their chair had the conversations that we've had

00:45:21.140 i don't give a fuck what they think i'm tired of this shit and you know you mentioned jimmy the giant

00:45:26.820 who i brought on to have he did a whole video calling me and a bunch of other people grifters

00:45:31.480 and that is actually a feel-good story because the reason i brought him on our channel

00:45:35.660 was you know i i believe in educating the next generation so to speak and um i i've had it i've i've

00:45:45.440 had it you know we've been doing it for seven years for the last five years we've had to take a lot

00:45:49.480 of criticism from a lot of people and people are entitled to criticize us as we are entitled to

00:45:54.680 criticize other people but what i won't stand for is people uh intuiting our motives in an unfair way

00:46:00.840 and lying right so i brought him on and you know he had a bit of a meltdown let's be honest um

00:46:06.440 and which i didn't expect i brought him on to basically say look you you've said these things

00:46:11.500 that aren't true how about you take it back or we have a respectful conversation whatever he didn't

00:46:15.640 take it well but all credit to him he went away had a think well he did another video having a go

00:46:22.920 of me but he went away had a think i think he got a lot of pushback from his own audience among other

00:46:27.480 things which is you know i respect them for that uh he went away had a think um and then he took it

00:46:33.020 down and he apologized he did a public apology which is why i was like you know what great let's

00:46:37.160 take down uh that interview that doesn't make him look good yeah uh he's learned his lesson i think

00:46:41.460 that interview is still there if he starts having to go loads of other people unfairly that interview

00:46:45.540 can always go back up but i think you know i had a chat with him privately i reassured him there was

00:46:50.000 no uh ill feeling or anything like that but my my broader point is uh i just think i'm past the point

00:46:56.920 of like caring what all these people think if you want to lie about us uh or about me or about you

00:47:04.120 come and make your case yeah come and make your case and if you can't well you're going to look like

00:47:08.920 an idiot yeah and the thing that i always i always come back to is that they never and i actually

00:47:18.540 respected jimmy for this but they never want to put themselves in the firing line it's why people who

00:47:23.560 criticize us they always say you're a right-wing channel you only interview right-wing people and

00:47:28.420 it's like well we work so hard yep our the guy who i would say 75 percent of our bookers energy is

00:47:38.680 spent on trying to book left-wing guests yeah and every time we have a booking meeting we go to him

00:47:43.260 billy how about some left-wingers and he's like i've tried yeah i've emailed i emailed them every month

00:47:50.900 and then you can go through the list of progressives owen jones zara sultana jeremy corbyn akala i can't

00:47:57.680 even we've i look if akala was a woman there would be a police person at our door arresting us for

00:48:04.660 harassment that's how many times we've asked well to the point and we've wanted to have him on for

00:48:09.360 years we've we've we've invited him on hundreds of times at this point probably and to the point

00:48:14.800 where actually one of his people he's doing some kind of documentary about race in britain

00:48:19.800 they asked me to participate and i said great and they were like okay he'll come to your studio i was

00:48:23.980 like great in that case let's do an episode of trigonometry dead dead and uh owen jones ash sarka

00:48:31.940 they both have said in the past they would come on the show not anymore uh gary stevenson uh we have

00:48:38.100 to hold our hands up our previous booker fucked it up uh he was gary did actually turn up for an

00:48:42.840 interview and we were in america at this point because a mistake was made i actually saw gary at the

00:48:47.420 protests in london and i apologized to him but you know if he if he if he doesn't come on because of

00:48:52.900 that you you can understand it although i do think he makes good points and i'd love to have him on

00:48:57.000 the point being we tried to engage with everybody and in the past we have had the cofang of extinction

00:49:02.600 rebellion on we've had a shit ton of lefties a mark steel on lefty lefty uh died in the world

00:49:08.220 lefty comedian loads of people we could rattle off a list we're interested in talking to everybody

00:49:13.860 um but there is this you know six degrees of white supremacy i call it on the left which is like

00:49:21.820 if you've ever talked to anyone who's sat next to someone whose dogs went for a walk with the other

00:49:26.520 dog's person then you're beyond the pale and we don't talk to you but i think i have to say this

00:49:32.640 and this is not self-aggrandizement but i think in the wake of our interview with deborah francis

00:49:38.520 white in the wake of our interview with jimmy or my conversation with jimmy the giant and one or two

00:49:43.380 other things we've done a lot of people are worried that if they come on here and they're

00:49:48.220 talking bullshit they're gonna get found out and by the way they should be yeah because that's what

00:49:52.980 we're gonna do and not just with the left we're just we're we've just released an episode with

00:49:56.780 ann coulter in which i don't think she comes out of that well either because she's talking shit

00:50:01.520 yeah and that is our job that is our job and i've i've i've always said this and that is our job

00:50:09.340 to be is when it the moment a guest is sitting across from us we have to look at the arguments

00:50:16.020 that they're put that they are putting forward and we challenge the argument if we feel that if there

00:50:21.620 is something awry or amiss or even as simple as we just want a point clarified and that is our job

00:50:27.600 and to me as the channel grows and it becomes more prominent because it will become more prominent

00:50:33.100 because eventually this channel will be the place where you come if you have a point of view

00:50:40.120 to come and sit and put forward your opinions or your views of the world whatever and whatever is

00:50:47.280 your speciality this is going to be the place it already is but it's going to become even more so

00:50:51.600 and i think it's going to start to reflect worse and worse on those people who actually duck the

00:50:59.520 challenge and i'm using those words intentionally they duck it because the reality is they don't

00:51:05.540 want their opinions and their arguments to be challenged well the thing is you make it sound

00:51:10.760 like it's combative but that's not really how we do it like uh for example deborah francis white we gave

00:51:16.340 her like loads of time and it's only when she started going after me and acting like like a dick

00:51:21.980 basically that i was like well you know what if you're gonna play this game yeah well i can play this

00:51:26.320 game yeah and i'll probably play a lot better than you yeah if that's what you want to do yeah

00:51:29.760 but if if she wanted to have a reasonable and respectful conversation that's what we wanted

00:51:35.440 yes that's what we've always wanted it's why when jimmy the giant behave in the way that he did

00:51:40.580 okay you know you want to play that game you're going to make you're going to look like a cunt here

00:51:44.640 right but if you want to be reasonable and apologize and take back what you said i'm not i'm not

00:51:50.840 trying to hold grudges against people yeah you know uh and i and that's our approach is always

00:51:55.520 respectful but if we if you say something that i don't agree with we'll push back on it like in

00:52:00.820 the tommy interview yeah when he said oh i don't want to be fighting i'm like yeah come on tommy

00:52:05.160 right uh and uh we had and by the way i have to say to his credit anytime we push back on him he

00:52:11.900 he he almost surprised me with how receptive he was yeah disagreement yeah he was he would actually

00:52:18.620 stop and then just go okay and then you would talk about it so when he said you know countries like

00:52:23.380 qatar and saudi arabia and i was like tommy those are of all due respect those are two very different

00:52:27.460 countries and he was like yeah you're right yeah that's the thing i found very and i think um you

00:52:33.640 know he's obviously been at this for a very long time yeah um but i just it just felt like you're

00:52:38.620 talking to somebody who's reasonable right now you might not agree with all of their opinions

00:52:43.400 yeah but they're still they the way they behave is reasonable right you see what i mean there's

00:52:48.860 there's there's a difference between those two things what did you make of it overall our

00:52:52.780 conversation with tommy you know it's very interesting because when i was talking to him

00:52:58.020 and i was listening to him he changed my mind on him as a person he i thought what was actually very

00:53:05.000 good about him is that he acknowledged that looking back when he was talking about the edl years

00:53:09.640 he was saying look to be put it bluntly it wasn't a good look you know to you know a group of young

00:53:16.880 men turning up demonstration that can look the optics of that are antagonistic they just are

00:53:23.040 so i was very i actually respected how he said look you know looking back on it we didn't handle

00:53:30.240 these things well but also i think a lot of the reason he got the flack he did as well is because

00:53:37.200 he told the truth and he told the truth before it was fashionable and the moment you tell the truth

00:53:42.820 before it's fashionable or it's before it's deemed to be politically correct or within the overton

00:53:47.760 window or however you want to describe it people aren't going to want to engage with it because they

00:53:53.580 know that fundamentally you're right and if they know that you're right and then they can't engage

00:53:57.980 with it that means that they become frustrated frustration leads to anger and anger leads to a

00:54:02.520 backlash so what do they do they slam you and they smear you but he was right about the grooming

00:54:08.340 gangs and he's right when he talks about extremist islam and he's right when he talks about there is

00:54:13.420 a problem with radicalization there are 40 000 muslims in this country on a terrorist watch list

00:54:19.400 that's unacceptable it just is you can dress it up any way you want and you can say oh it's a

00:54:25.280 religion but the the point is why aren't there 40 000 sikhs why aren't there 40 000 hindus

00:54:31.580 why aren't there 40 000 buddhists why aren't there 40 000 white british people on the watch they're the

00:54:36.040 majority yeah right but they're not on a terrorist watch list why is that yeah why is that because

00:54:41.780 there is a very real problem within islam with this radicalization and until we actually sit down

00:54:49.280 and just admit that and just say look there is an issue how are we going to tackle this issue

00:54:55.600 and i don't care call me islamophobic call me racist call me whatever you want it doesn't matter

00:55:01.060 because all you're trying to do is silence me and sidetrack from me from having an actual

00:55:06.980 discussion which is discussion we need to have and you know what's interesting is watching that

00:55:10.900 jeremy paxman interview from all those years back jeremy paxman is a very intelligent man yeah and you

00:55:16.660 can see that the the way he tries to derail what tommy's saying now at the time i probably wouldn't

00:55:24.380 have noticed it but now when i'm i've been on the other end and know what the media can be like

00:55:28.860 when they're trying to misrepresent i'm going wait he's talking about there's a problem within this

00:55:33.640 community that's specific to that community and jeremy paxman is using these like 12 year old

00:55:38.500 counter arguments like like a 12 year old like a teenager doesn't know what they're talking about

00:55:43.300 yeah like uh yeah but you're saying why people don't no no that's not that that's just stupid like

00:55:50.460 that that is very very stupid and when we sat with tommy i just thought that on a lot of these issues

00:55:59.180 he has been very badly misrepresented um that i as i made clear in the interview i don't think he's an

00:56:05.260 angel i don't think he himself claims and in fact you could see that towards the end of the interview

00:56:09.380 he actually conceded my point he said you know as you said i don't mind a punch-up we all had a laugh

00:56:14.420 yeah because that is his background i don't think he's the same man today as he was 20 years ago no

00:56:21.020 do i think it's wise for him to be walking around in central london without security or just a few

00:56:27.200 friends with him probably not do i think there's probably situations where he could extricate

00:56:32.820 himself a little bit more but he wants to stand up and be strong because he's probably got fucking

00:56:38.140 ptsd and he spent shit times a ton in tons of time in isolation and in prison solitary confinement

00:56:43.940 you know like you can see how his experiences have made him into that person doesn't mean that

00:56:50.040 being that person is necessarily the very possible best way to be but that doesn't mean that he's

00:56:56.100 evil or he is wrong about the the main thrust of his argument and this is really the thing that

00:57:01.220 fundamentally matters about anyone in my opinion when we have them on the show is the main thrust of

00:57:07.960 what they're saying true valid and important right and with him it is now if you want to go

00:57:15.000 and pick little things or big things that he's done wrong that you don't agree with that's fine and you

00:57:19.920 can discredit anyone you can discredit me you can discredit you you can discredit anyone you want

00:57:24.540 anyone anyone you want right look the big the big podcasters there's hit pieces on all of us right

00:57:30.700 the joe rogans of the world have been attacked a thousand times he's racist he's this he's anti-semitage

00:57:36.360 all of these things right happens to everybody but the main point is is the central message and

00:57:42.380 the central thrust of what they're saying true with tommy it is yeah it is right and so and you

00:57:50.340 can see by the way you know one of the gratifying things for us is that interview as we sit here

00:57:56.200 today is on 1.2 million views on youtube a shit ton of audio downloads as well and tommy's done every

00:58:02.780 podcast under the sun in the last few weeks and they're not getting those numbers now though you

00:58:07.200 know we've got a bigger channel than most people who are having those conversations and it's no

00:58:10.660 disrespect to them they all do great work but i think a lot of people wanted to watch us have that

00:58:16.020 conversation because they know that we're coming at it from actually a balanced reasonable place

00:58:21.520 where we will offer fair pushback and we will not pick fights for no reason to try and look good at

00:58:27.900 his expense and that's why the title of it an honest conversation with tommy robinson is what it

00:58:33.180 was i'm very proud of it yeah so am i so am i and i stand by it all right people it's trivia time

00:58:39.280 financial trivia to be exact do you know what retirement asset grew the most in the first six

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00:58:54.980 through july 21st the doubt jones grew less than one percent what about bitcoin president trump loves

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01:00:14.820 partner i think that is the best conversation with tommy robinson that you're going to see

01:00:19.560 because like like we've said you get two main approaches you get the mainstream media approach

01:00:26.780 which is to paint him as a second coming of hitler or you've got the new media approach which is what a

01:00:32.320 lot of people have done which eulogize him and say that he's a saint when he's neither of those two

01:00:36.460 things he's a you know he's a human being with his flaws he's made mistakes he's far from perfect

01:00:42.820 tommy admits that himself and we have a conversation but i think the thing that i took away from it and

01:00:48.860 i remember like you know i don't i never i always forget and we've spoken about this you know the

01:00:56.600 impact that our conversations have and i remember the after we finished the conversation i remember

01:01:02.880 going home and i i've spent a lot of time in just thinking about that thinking about the conversation

01:01:10.040 thinking about what happened who he is all the and it came back to me it came back to the central point

01:01:17.160 is that what he was saying is true and actually everything else is kind of irrelevant is it true

01:01:26.680 what he's saying if it's false if it's wrong then that's what we should be focusing on well i i think

01:01:34.980 we could maybe inject a little nuance into that beyond that which is i think in his diagnostic yeah

01:01:42.100 analysis of where what the problems are yeah he's right we can then talk about well what are the

01:01:49.220 solutions and when we talk to him you know it's it's vague yeah right and and but tommy's not a

01:01:55.420 politician it's not his job to do that right um so when he says well you know 23 percent of muslims

01:02:00.620 want sharia law they need to go that's kind of to convert that into policy at government level

01:02:06.380 that's impossible is a challenge yeah to put it mildly right we don't know what that means or what

01:02:11.540 that looks like but in terms of his analysis of the situation where it is the diagnosis what he's

01:02:17.600 saying about the problems he's 100 right and people can pretend he's not whatever they want right but

01:02:23.040 he's right so then it's up to people whose job it is to do policy to get elected and then take some

01:02:29.840 of the things that he's highlighting which they're aware of now thanks to him and lots of other people

01:02:35.320 as well and to convert them into actionable policy that's going to make this country safer

01:02:40.980 more cohesive uh to make sure that these things aren't happening anymore right that's so in terms

01:02:47.660 of him doing his job of telling people what has been going on i've got no issue with it and the

01:02:52.520 reality is is look they have been they have managed to silence this issue for far and far too long

01:02:58.540 they have smeared they have shut people up people have lost their jobs

01:03:05.340 you can't do that anymore the problem now has become so it's become undeniable and now that

01:03:13.140 it has become undeniable the government is now faced with a challenge and the authorities are faced

01:03:18.400 with a challenge are you going to tackle it or are you not and that's where we are that's where we

01:03:24.520 are because i'm sure kia sama will get a sword yeah mate he smashed the illegal he smashed the

01:03:29.280 gangs smashed the gangs the gangs are super smashed the gangs are super smashed so where are we going

01:03:34.380 to be because if you look at the temperature of our country at the moment the bloke said it in in

01:03:43.600 in when you um sorry when you went to the protest it's like a volcano and it is like a volcano and we

01:03:49.800 all know it's like a volcano it feels as if it could go off at any second at any moment it only

01:03:56.020 needs one thing to trigger it and the whole thing is going to blow and that is not sustainable no well

01:04:01.740 i certainly hope that doesn't happen but the only way that won't happen is if the government and the

01:04:08.220 people in charge and the police and the immigration authorities actually address the problems because i i saw

01:04:15.240 somebody on twitter i think it was danny finkelstein a times writer who was saying loads of people and

01:04:20.180 seem to be really keen on us to have a civil war i don't remember the exact language but it was

01:04:25.420 something but he was basically saying loads of people want this to happen no no danny nobody wants

01:04:30.840 this to happen nobody wants violence on the streets nobody wants uh anti-immigration protests to get

01:04:38.340 violent there's never a good thing it's not going to end well it's not going to end as tommy said

01:04:42.820 it's not going to end well for the people that participate it's not going to end well for

01:04:46.660 immigrants it's not going to end well for our country it's not going to end well for anybody

01:04:50.680 we do not want it to happen and i i but that is why we are calling on the government and the

01:04:57.400 authorities to actually do your fucking job deal with this problem because if you don't you're making

01:05:03.980 the inevitable inevitable and just on that point i certainly know of course you i don't want that to

01:05:11.700 happen in fact i'm going to be i think if something that if there's if there isn't some kind of

01:05:17.120 intervention by the government if things don't change i'm worried that it might be inevitable

01:05:22.400 and i'm not i'm going to change the word worried i'm going to say terrified i've seen what happens

01:05:27.020 when law breaks down i was in venezuela many times where the government where the military had to come

01:05:33.240 onto the streets that is not a place that you want to be that is not a country that you want to live

01:05:38.740 in that is not a society that you want to participate in because what that is is a society

01:05:44.400 that is sick potentially terminally ill and you do not want to get to that place and my worry is is

01:05:52.140 that we're on a trajectory to that place and that's what i'm terrified of and people need to stop

01:05:57.520 confusing these things on purpose we're not saying that this is and i think no one is saying this is

01:06:03.320 what we want to happen we're just saying if you don't address the real concerns that people have

01:06:08.480 this is what will happen or could happen and we'd like that not to happen it's not that complicated

01:06:14.140 it's not that complicated but again it's far easier to then target what somebody like us is saying or

01:06:20.520 somebody else in the media and going oh you want this to happen so then you don't have to engage with

01:06:25.300 the issues because that's the easy thing to do it's the coward's way to approach it yeah and and this is

01:06:31.480 where a lot of this stuff comes in i think the independent i think had an article over the

01:06:35.360 weekend uh in which uh they basically talked about the fact that uh most people misunderstand the

01:06:42.440 realities of immigration uh so uh they basically showed that a lot of people overestimate the amount

01:06:48.440 of legal immigration and they think it's it's the number is bigger than legal immigration and this is

01:06:53.120 this kind of this this sort of islington uh oh look at these plebs they're so thick thing well

01:07:00.520 actually the general public including people who live in islington massively misunderstand lots of

01:07:04.980 statistics but the question again is are they wrong on the main thrust of what they're saying

01:07:11.040 yes they may overestimate the amount of legal immigration okay fine are they wrong that there

01:07:16.760 is way too much illegal immigration no they're not wrong so if you if you want to do what these people

01:07:24.160 did during brexit and i remind people they can have another drink this is something for a catchphrase we

01:07:29.080 haven't used for about five years we both voted remain right but we got angrier and angrier watching

01:07:35.340 these same people do this over brexit oh everyone who voted for brexit is thick how did that work out

01:07:40.400 is did that work for you did did just go oh these people are stupid half my country's stupid we're just

01:07:47.240 going to point our finger at them when they express their concerns about what's happening to their

01:07:51.560 country you want to just do that again you were happy with the results last time

01:07:55.880 and look we've also seen sadiq khan i think came out recently and was talking about how crime in

01:08:02.800 london has gone down the city is safer than it's ever been yeah yeah yeah i went to and i live uh i live

01:08:10.420 in a very kind of she-she part of north london you know but everybody's there and everybody's well oh my

01:08:15.780 god you know there's no black people but everybody has a blm flag that type of place i went to uh the off

01:08:22.200 license very nice off license i had to buzz in i had to buzz in and wait i was like why do i have

01:08:29.860 to buzz in and wait so i walked in and i said why do i have to buzz in he went because otherwise people

01:08:36.360 just come in and they just take stuff and they walk out he's probably just been reading too many

01:08:39.660 right-wing news yeah but this is this is the narrative this is the narrative from these people

01:08:44.300 we we lived during the pandemic we lived in central if it was effectively central london it is

01:08:50.380 yeah uh what uh it was zone one it was ec1 ec1 right and in in the one year one year we lived in this

01:08:59.040 place right you were mugged nearly mugged yeah by a guy with a giant knife who when you challenged him

01:09:04.880 he pulled out this knife and threatened you yeah right our producer was attacked outside of a shop

01:09:09.980 yeah right my i remember my pregnant wife walking along some guy basically came up to him was i'm a

01:09:14.540 nice clean boy come with me yeah right and one time i turned up to record an interview and there was a

01:09:19.400 guy with a machete outside just chopping at a tree while a bunch of people were just screaming at him

01:09:24.460 to calm down we all had a bad day that's within one year yeah your parents were the house burgled

01:09:31.380 yeah i had my car broken into what the fuck are these people talking about yeah what are they talking

01:09:35.800 about yeah and then they talk about you know this fun tests are up tube crime is up like crazy

01:09:41.620 and there's they say things oh yeah car stereos haven't been nicked today they're down you're

01:09:45.900 going well no one's got a car stereo anymore yeah everyone plays it via their spot and a lot of people

01:09:51.000 no longer bother to report crime because there's no fucking point yeah there's no point why would if

01:09:57.440 unless you were trying to get an insurance reference number i mean we saw it in our interview with dr

01:10:03.040 lawrence newport right when he's basically he put a bike outside scotland yard with a tracker on it

01:10:08.900 it got nicked he tracked it to the place where it was being stored and the police wouldn't do anything

01:10:14.900 my car which was broken into was under a cctv camera they just gave me a crime reference number

01:10:20.520 in an email i had to email the police right of course no one in that type of society is going to

01:10:25.940 report crime what's the point of course and they want to tell us it's fine it is not

01:10:31.360 and what the public feel and quite rightly in my opinion is that they're being gaslit they are being

01:10:37.700 gaslit and what happens with that is you can only gaslit people so many times before there is anger

01:10:45.720 and there's resentment and that is bubbling and that will and that will remain bubbling and then it will

01:10:50.920 get it will get higher and higher and higher just like you know the the pot until it boils over when

01:10:57.820 they can't take it anymore the pressure becomes too much and again i am i do not want this to happen

01:11:05.400 and i'm actually terrified because i'm starting to think it might be inevitable if i'm being honest

01:11:10.420 i'm starting to think that as as as i walk around my city and i talk to people and people come up and

01:11:16.800 talk to me and i think unless the government actually intervene and do start to implement policies

01:11:26.140 that are going to make a real significant change with things like law and order with things like

01:11:31.460 immigration with things like housing unless they start to do that and they start to do it pronto

01:11:36.740 we are on a track to a very very dark place and i don't i don't want to go to live in america i

01:11:45.060 don't want to leave this country i don't and and as in somebody who is english and is very very

01:11:52.820 grateful to have been brought here to have lived here to be born here because i've seen the

01:11:58.600 alternatives i don't want this to become venezuela i really don't and i'm seeing it's like an illness

01:12:08.200 some of the symptoms i saw in venezuela i'm now starting to see here and that that's worrying

01:12:14.640 or at least you're gonna have nice weather and attractive

01:12:17.740 yeah well global warming mate actually i hate the heat global warming is brilliant i made this

01:12:24.580 point last time it's not mate i'm gonna join extinction rebellion i'm gonna stick myself to

01:12:28.820 something all right on that happy note thanks for watching uh if you want to subscribe i remember

01:12:33.300 triggerpod.co.uk if you want to watch all our interviews ad free with bonus content we'll see

01:12:38.820 you very soon with another interview i'm fine if people are anti-war i'm not fine if people are

01:12:45.460 anti-fact nobody's ever built 300 miles of tunnels underneath their civilians for the sole

01:12:52.240 purpose of using their civilians as a shield and as a sacrifice every individual in gaza could fit in

01:12:59.420 hamas's tunnels with ease why is it that israel is held to not one double standard but a whole list

01:13:06.820 of double standards in war that no other nation in history has ever been held to what is the goal

01:13:14.020 now by pursuing this conflict in this way alienates a whole generation of future western decision makers

01:13:20.460 and that is a reality that israeli politicians have to reckon with surely

TRIGGERnometry - August 15, 2025

Our Thoughts on Tommy Interview, Migrant Protests and Haters

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