TRIGGERnometry - ＂PayPal Banned Me for Stating Basic Biology＂ - Colin Wright

00:00:00.000 You know, I was kind of just happily in my lab, working with my spiders and wasps and ants,

00:00:06.200 and I didn't want to have to, like, sit up from my workbench, but I did.

00:00:10.240 So I was actually okay with it destroying my career, because I wanted to be able to speak the truth.

00:00:17.260 They sent me a message through the PayPal system saying that if I want to find out why my account was turned off,

00:00:23.320 I have an attorney submit a subpoena, a legal subpoena, to find out.

00:00:26.660 They recently also shut down Moms for Liberty account, their PayPal account.

00:00:30.500 So this is sort of a pattern that they have of people that they disagree with politically on this.

00:00:35.740 I can no longer use Etsy. I'm permanently banned from Etsy. I'm pretty benign.

00:00:40.160 And so for that to happen to me, for them to, like, think that I'm sort of beyond the pale,

00:00:44.620 to be treated on par with, like, a domestic terrorist and to shut down his ways he can get income,

00:00:50.220 yeah, it's completely insane. I don't know how he got here.

00:00:53.280 There's so many biologists who've reached out saying that they won't even, they don't even want to like a tweet.

00:00:58.340 They'll send me a DM saying, I liked your tweet, but I couldn't like your tweet.

00:01:02.680 Hold on. What you're telling me is that there are biologists at prominent institutions

00:01:08.120 who don't believe that there is more than two sexes, but they will denounce someone like you who says it

00:01:13.840 because they're terrified of the repercussions for their career. Is that what you're telling me?

00:01:17.620 100%, yeah.

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00:03:00.960 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry on the Road from the USA.

00:03:07.140 I'm Francis Foster.

00:03:08.460 I'm Constantin Kissin.

00:03:09.640 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:03:15.640 Our brilliant and returning guest today is an evolutionary biologist

00:03:19.020 who's paying quite a heavy price at the moment for saying some very obvious things.

00:03:22.620 Colin Wright, welcome back to Trigonometry.

00:03:24.420 Thanks for having me on. Thanks for coming to my place.

00:03:27.100 Thanks for having us. We really appreciate it.

00:03:29.860 Look, man, let's quickly remind everybody who you are.

00:03:32.460 Last time we spoke to you is in the middle of the lockdowns and it was all going a bit crazy.

00:03:36.940 Who are you? How are you where you are?

00:03:38.680 What's been your journey through life that leads you to be sitting here telling us this?

00:03:41.520 So much has happened just since we last chatted, so I'll try to maybe jump off from then a little more in the back.

00:03:50.200 So I'm an evolutionary biologist. I was working at Penn State for quite a while.

00:03:55.120 I studied the behavioral evolution ecology of social insects.

00:04:00.080 I had a lot of colleagues at the time and a lot of friends who were also both at my university

00:04:04.980 and just sort of in PhD programs generally.

00:04:07.520 They started saying a bunch of weird stuff about the nature of biological sex.

00:04:12.520 You know, things like there's five sexes or sex is a spectrum or male and female are just social constructs.

00:04:18.620 They're not even real. We just, you know, sort of decide what we call a male and female, but it's really pretty arbitrary.

00:04:25.340 So I initially saw this as just, you know, I had a history of sort of debunking a lot of pseudoscience.

00:04:31.140 I used to debunk things like creationism, intelligent design.

00:04:34.300 And so I just saw this as another instance of like, oh, these people are just wrong about really obvious biology,

00:04:39.560 which is shocking because a lot of them have PhDs in biology.

00:04:42.300 But nevertheless, I'm going to go ahead and criticize these ideas the same way I would have criticized anyone making false claims about biology.

00:04:49.260 Well, I thought I would be met with, you know, scientific arguments and here's some evidence of why sex isn't real.

00:04:56.880 This should be sort of a Nobel Prize winning discovery of sex all of a sudden male and female.

00:05:01.940 You know, these aren't real categories. That would have been really shocking to me.

00:05:05.800 But instead of them coming at me with, you know, here's the evidence, here's why these are social constructs.

00:05:11.940 It was you're a bigot, you're a transphobe, etc.

00:05:15.420 So I thought about not even going that direction anymore and just removing myself from the debate completely because it was getting really heated and I was on the market to, you know, applying for professor jobs and things like that at the time.

00:05:28.600 But it really just sort of annoyed me that I had made it all this way into academia.

00:05:35.080 I was about to start applying for jobs as assistant professors.

00:05:38.640 You know, these are at major research universities and I'm self-censoring on one of, like, the most low-hanging fruit questions of biology.

00:05:47.240 Are male and female real? 0.94

00:05:48.600 And so I sort of asked myself what would Christopher Hitchens do and I just decided to write some more articles on this, just debunking this hardcore.

00:05:59.360 So that's what I did.

00:06:01.220 There was a big swarm cancellation attempt to get me banned on Twitter to ruin my reputation so I can never get hired.

00:06:09.260 I thought they were probably successful in that so I ended up leaving academia.

00:06:12.580 I worked for Quillette for a while as their managing editor.

00:06:16.900 I since left that, I founded my own substat called Reality's Last Stand where I now basically full-time go and debunk a lot of these arguments of people denying basic biology.

00:06:29.060 And then I've expanded a little bit to criticizing the sort of gender ideology in queer theory that's sort of producing all of this insanity in the realm of biological sex. 0.94

00:06:37.960 And I also publish articles from other people, too, so it's sort of like a magazine substack of mostly my content, but anyone can publish there, too.

00:06:45.740 Also publishing a lot of case studies going into these Facebook groups with parents, which is this area where, you know, parents still have a kid who comes out as trans.

00:06:55.880 Maybe they're four years old, maybe they're 12 years old.

00:06:57.880 And we look at how these Facebook groups are really just sort of these gender ideology cults that take a mom who's really nervous and questioning what the hell's going on with my son or daughter.

00:07:12.080 And these Facebook groups basically just railroad these parents down the road to transitioning their child, you know, getting double mastectomies, having their testicles removed, everything.

00:07:23.420 So we're exposing this type of stuff. It's pretty serious. It's not for the faint of heart.

00:07:28.820 And Colin, when you were saying that you thought, what would Christopher Hitchens do?

00:07:33.440 Number one, I like the fact that you've got a bottle of booze.

00:07:35.660 He would do this.

00:07:36.380 Yeah, he would absolutely do this. But number two, didn't you worry that what you were doing was committing professional suicide?

00:07:44.760 Were you not concerned about that?

00:07:46.840 Well, that was the reason that I sort of withdrew for a while.

00:07:50.140 I had maybe a hundred applications out. I actually turned my Twitter. I locked it down for maybe six months while I was applying for jobs.

00:07:59.000 And when I was writing this one essay, the first one I wrote for Quillette called The New Evolution Deniers, one thing I did, I sent it to my advisor at the time, some of my mentors.

00:08:07.760 And they both came back and they said, this is a fantastic essay. I agree with everything. It's completely right.

00:08:13.780 But, but, you cannot publish this. This will ruin your career. If you do publish it, don't put your name on it.

00:08:21.900 And, you know, to me, when the first thing they said was, oh, this is fantastic and it's true, then to me, everything after the but, well, if I would have not went ahead and published it, that would have just been, you know, every reason that I wanted to get into science in the first place, and to be a scientist, to pursue truth, to pursue what's real about biology and the natural world.

00:08:43.900 So, well, all of a sudden it seemed like academia really wasn't what I wanted it to be.

00:08:49.440 Like, do I want to work in an environment that is not going to allow me to say completely obviously true things as the male and female exist?

00:08:57.900 So, really, I no longer even wanted to have that job anymore given how much it's changed since I had gotten into it, you know, 12 years ago now at this point.

00:09:06.540 So, yeah. So, I was actually okay with it destroying my career because I wanted to be able to speak the truth.

00:09:14.840 Well, Colin, one of the reasons we wanted to speak with you again, obviously we had a great conversation the first time, and I feel like we bang on about this trans issue so much now.

00:09:25.560 I almost don't want to talk about it quite as much as we do, but on the other hand, I think it's kind of like the coalface of the whole battle with this progressive mindset.

00:09:37.480 And there are people like you who are now increasingly paying a price, as I alluded to in the introduction, and you've just recently had a situation where not only have you been pushed out of your career path,

00:09:50.620 you're not doing science anymore, you're doing something else, but actually you are now being prevented from being paid for the work that you do by the payment systems that are supposed to just be the lubricant of the market.

00:10:04.400 Tell us about that.

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00:10:36.600 Yeah, it's been pretty nuts.

00:10:39.180 So I left, I was working at a place called Fair, and I left that job because I wanted to go full-time on my substack to tackle the gender, sex denials and stuff,

00:10:50.620 because to me that's just, it's like the eye of the storm.

00:10:53.120 It's the craziest stuff, that's where I want to focus all my attention.

00:10:57.260 But then that's kind of a scary thing because then I'm completely reliant on payment processors.

00:11:03.820 Substack uses Stripe.

00:11:05.460 They're pretty good.

00:11:06.160 They've kind of routinely come out pro-free speech and things like that.

00:11:11.440 But I was also using PayPal to solicit donations of people.

00:11:16.660 If they didn't want to just subscribe to my substack but they wanted to give me donations directly, monthly one-time donations or whatever,

00:11:22.620 they could do so through PayPal.

00:11:24.600 So I had received an email from PayPal just out of the blue just saying you can no longer use PayPal.

00:11:30.680 I think that was the subject line.

00:11:33.440 And I thought this had to be completely, oh, maybe my credit card is not working or I need to update something.

00:11:40.620 And then going through, you know, trying to turn it back on, well, everywhere I went led to like a dead end.

00:11:47.160 So I called like the help desk just to, something's clearly amiss here.

00:11:54.020 And they said that, you know, they would put me in touch with somebody who'd be able to tell me what's going on, expect an email.

00:11:59.300 Well, I never got an email.

00:12:00.620 They sent me a message through the PayPal system saying that if I want to find out why my account was turned off,

00:12:06.860 that I would need to submit, have an attorney submit a subpoena, a legal subpoena to find out.

00:12:12.220 So, yeah, that's all I know.

00:12:15.240 They didn't say any reason why my account was shut down in the first place.

00:12:19.560 So we can only imagine.

00:12:20.920 They've done the same thing to Ian Miles Chong.

00:12:23.440 They recently also shut down Moms for Liberty account, their PayPal account.

00:12:26.940 So this is sort of a pattern that they have of people that they disagree with politically on this.

00:12:32.400 And it puts me in a precarious position because I'm completely reliant on these systems.

00:12:36.920 I don't work for a company.

00:12:38.420 I work for myself.

00:12:39.320 And so I need to have a way where people can pay me, you know, directly or through some sort of system.

00:12:45.620 So it's really kind of a scary thing where just some intern at PayPal or maybe at Stripe now,

00:12:51.120 I hope they're as robust as I'm hoping they are.

00:12:55.200 But, you know, just a single click and they can just turn off my entire income.

00:12:58.960 And have you been able to appeal or challenge in any way?

00:13:02.180 Are you considering following the legal route?

00:13:04.300 I'm considering going and actually just making them give me the reason.

00:13:08.720 So doing the subpoena route.

00:13:10.620 So that's sort of in the works.

00:13:12.400 But we're not quite there yet.

00:13:15.240 And then also, so it wasn't just PayPal, but I also had an Etsy store.

00:13:20.180 You know, it wasn't like a big part of my income, but every once in a while I'd sell a lot of t-shirts.

00:13:23.920 Etsy, excuse me.

00:13:24.360 Oh, yeah.

00:13:25.260 So Etsy is like this online store that people can set up their little shops.

00:13:30.600 It was originally known for people selling like homemade goods, like knitting or something,

00:13:35.360 or they'd make earrings with rocks or something like that.

00:13:38.180 Sounds like it should be banned anyway.

00:13:40.480 Exactly.

00:13:41.640 And then it sort of expanded more and now you can just host, you can sell anything you want to.

00:13:45.920 Shirts, mugs, a lot of people use it for that.

00:13:47.600 Just because it's got like low fees for people who are hosting their stuff.

00:13:51.740 And then they sent me an email saying that I can no longer use Etsy.

00:13:55.740 I'm permanently banned from Etsy.

00:13:57.480 Now, they did give me a reason.

00:13:58.940 They said that my merchandise was, I think the wording was,

00:14:03.180 supporting and glorifying hatred against protected groups.

00:14:06.740 But if you actually saw the merchandise that I had on there,

00:14:10.420 it was, I literally only sold three things.

00:14:12.420 I had, so my, my sub stack is called Reality's Last Stand.

00:14:15.640 So I had some mugs that just had the words Reality's Last Stand

00:14:19.040 and they had a male and a female symbol.

00:14:20.900 I had another logo that said Defender of Reality

00:14:25.100 and it had male and female symbol.

00:14:27.240 Boo.

00:14:27.800 I guess these are hate symbols now.

00:14:29.080 Yeah.

00:14:29.920 And then I had my political cartoon.

00:14:31.940 The poster I gave you of the one Elon Musk tweeted out

00:14:34.480 that just showed, you know, how, from my perception,

00:14:37.580 sort of the left had gone really left

00:14:39.460 and the center had moved past me

00:14:41.160 and now I'm perceived as being on the right.

00:14:43.280 So that's, there's nothing hateful there.

00:14:45.200 But apparently this was, was considered glorifying violence against minorities.

00:14:50.080 I did try to appeal and they said,

00:14:52.220 nope, we stand by our decision. 0.68

00:14:55.140 Meanwhile, they do sell things that say like, you know, kill TERFs.

00:14:58.520 They have things that are like TERF stoppers.

00:15:00.300 And a TERF is someone who like criticizes gender ideology.

00:15:03.120 It stands for trans-exclusionary radical feminist.

00:15:05.880 And they have things that are clearly glorifying violence

00:15:08.520 against those types of people.

00:15:11.520 But I can't sell just like a mug that has the name of my,

00:15:14.200 my sub stack on it, apparently.

00:15:16.600 And Colin, what do you say to the argument that

00:15:19.800 these are private companies?

00:15:22.220 They can do whatever they want.

00:15:23.960 If PayPal doesn't want to work with you,

00:15:26.080 why should PayPal be forced to?

00:15:27.480 Same with Etsy.

00:15:28.740 They have no legal obligation to do so.

00:15:32.400 What are you complaining about?

00:15:34.000 So there's, there's actually like some nuance to

00:15:36.580 my criticisms for both of them.

00:15:38.940 So Etsy, you know, it's annoying.

00:15:41.560 I have to move my, my merchandise to some other place,

00:15:44.980 but I can do it.

00:15:45.540 I'm setting up one at Square right now.

00:15:47.020 So it's just an annoying process.

00:15:48.980 I don't have merchandise like in my closet or anything like that.

00:15:51.920 It's sort of print on demand.

00:15:53.340 So it's not like I have to lug stuff to a new warehouse

00:15:55.960 or anything like that.

00:15:57.240 But it is a little more sinister when it's payment processors

00:16:00.940 because they portray themselves as these apolitical things.

00:16:04.280 We're just, you know, letting people send money to you.

00:16:08.000 And so it's, it's a little more intimate than, than just,

00:16:11.160 you know, I got to sell my mug somewhere else.

00:16:13.200 So that is, I think, a conversation needs to be had about that,

00:16:19.980 especially because, you know, I'm fortunate.

00:16:22.860 I didn't have a whole lot of people sending donations

00:16:24.840 through a place like PayPal or through PayPal.

00:16:29.040 But what they did, you know, it takes a while.

00:16:30.960 You get people that will give you recurring donations over time.

00:16:34.020 And if they cut that off,

00:16:36.540 I can't just start charging those people somewhere else.

00:16:39.040 They have to sign up again somewhere else.

00:16:41.440 And fortunately, it was shut down early on

00:16:43.800 when I didn't have, you know,

00:16:44.800 I wasn't relying on a lot of this income

00:16:46.760 from donations directly.

00:16:48.440 But what if they shut it down three years,

00:16:51.200 five years in the future where it had grown

00:16:53.520 and I'm relying on that as a certain, you know,

00:16:56.260 component of my income.

00:16:57.180 For them to just be able to cancel it completely,

00:17:00.520 you know, that's, you know,

00:17:01.720 right now they're allowed to do it as a private company.

00:17:04.040 But they do serve the role of sort of like

00:17:08.260 what a bank would normally be doing

00:17:09.800 and how you're getting payments.

00:17:11.000 So I do think they should be considered

00:17:13.180 sort of like a public service.

00:17:15.800 And the moment that politics gets involved

00:17:18.100 in payment processors,

00:17:19.260 that's just, it's going to turn the heat up

00:17:21.160 of the culture war to 11.

00:17:22.900 I just, it's really, really bad.

00:17:24.840 Well, this is why I wanted to speak with you, Colin,

00:17:27.300 because I hope you're going to be okay.

00:17:29.860 I think you will be for the moment.

00:17:31.780 But the precedent that this sets

00:17:35.120 is actually very serious

00:17:39.900 because, I mean, I don't even know

00:17:43.240 that if you go to prison for a crime,

00:17:45.160 you get your bank account shut down.

00:17:47.220 And you've committed no crime

00:17:49.040 and these companies are unilaterally

00:17:50.760 shutting down your account

00:17:52.040 in order to disincentivize and discourage

00:17:54.360 you from speaking about something

00:17:56.240 that you feel strongly about.

00:17:58.580 And if we, as you say, go down that path,

00:18:01.780 we're very quickly going to find

00:18:03.080 that people are having their electricity switched off

00:18:05.060 because they tweeted something

00:18:07.020 that the electricity company doesn't approve of,

00:18:09.840 which is one of the reasons I was so keen

00:18:11.400 that we come out here and speak with you

00:18:12.820 to raise awareness of this issue.

00:18:14.500 So, I suppose, I guess my question is,

00:18:19.600 how do you see this continuing?

00:18:21.660 Because if we go down this route,

00:18:23.660 like I say, we're going to be, you know,

00:18:24.960 shutting off each other's electricity before long.

00:18:27.840 Yeah.

00:18:28.160 I mean, I think we've seen some of that

00:18:29.440 with the whole things in Canada

00:18:32.400 with, like, the trucker protest.

00:18:33.840 And, you know, they were shutting down

00:18:35.420 people's bank accounts

00:18:36.400 for just being at some of these trucker protests.

00:18:39.280 So, you know, it's a really scary time.

00:18:43.080 I don't know where it's going to go,

00:18:44.940 but I think we need to do everything we can

00:18:46.380 to sort of lower the temperature on this stuff

00:18:48.100 because, I mean, this is people's livelihoods.

00:18:50.800 This is, I mean, a lot of people are doing this now.

00:18:52.920 There's sort of this new economy,

00:18:54.140 especially during COVID,

00:18:54.920 everyone switched to being online.

00:18:56.980 We're relying more on things like Stripe and PayPal

00:18:59.320 and any other of these payment processors.

00:19:02.600 We know that, you know, Patreon,

00:19:04.420 they had a big fiasco,

00:19:05.620 I think it was in 2018,

00:19:07.400 where they originally came out.

00:19:08.320 They even went on Dave Rubin's show,

00:19:10.280 the CEO did,

00:19:11.360 saying that, you know,

00:19:12.360 you're completely fine.

00:19:13.760 We're never going to shut you down.

00:19:15.620 Our policy only happens to apply

00:19:17.540 to things that occur on Patreon.

00:19:20.240 And then, you know,

00:19:21.260 what is it, a year later or something,

00:19:23.160 he kicked off some people

00:19:24.260 because of stuff they did off Patreon.

00:19:26.340 So while I feel relatively comfortable with Stripe,

00:19:29.880 that's what powers Substack,

00:19:32.200 who knows?

00:19:33.120 You know, what if they get a change of management?

00:19:34.780 What if all of a sudden

00:19:35.480 they decide that they want to switch their policy up?

00:19:37.680 I mean, these are just personnel decisions

00:19:39.580 at the end of the day.

00:19:40.300 Like, who's there?

00:19:41.020 It matters the composition

00:19:42.340 of who's running these companies.

00:19:43.660 And that can change really dramatically.

00:19:46.080 So, you know,

00:19:47.500 if we don't really try to classify these things

00:19:50.320 as sort of just a general service provider,

00:19:53.280 like a telephone company or something,

00:19:55.740 yeah, it's sort of a weird,

00:19:59.620 I guess,

00:20:00.260 I don't want to go and call it terrorism,

00:20:03.060 but it is a way

00:20:03.960 to really just chill speech

00:20:06.400 on so many levels

00:20:08.540 because, yeah, it's...

00:20:10.000 And designed to do so, by the way.

00:20:12.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:20:12.440 It's designed to stop you

00:20:13.900 from speaking your mind.

00:20:15.120 With a click, exactly.

00:20:17.840 Well, look,

00:20:18.580 it's not for me to say

00:20:19.560 because I appreciate

00:20:20.260 that it's not an easy thing to do,

00:20:21.480 but I do hope

00:20:22.280 that you do pursue

00:20:23.180 the legal subpoena route.

00:20:25.440 And I'm sure people

00:20:26.040 would be willing to help

00:20:26.940 if you were to go down that route

00:20:28.100 because as we will probably go on

00:20:30.260 to talk about

00:20:30.800 what some of the things

00:20:31.480 that are happening in the UK now

00:20:32.740 around the trans issue,

00:20:33.680 we've seen that

00:20:34.820 when legal challenges are made

00:20:36.480 to some of these decisions,

00:20:37.620 they're actually found unlawful

00:20:39.020 and people, you know,

00:20:41.900 establish a precedent.

00:20:43.140 Do you have plans to do that

00:20:44.600 in terms of the subpoena

00:20:46.160 and kind of going down that route?

00:20:47.940 Yeah, yeah.

00:20:48.320 I'd like to pursue that avenue.

00:20:50.580 I've been speaking

00:20:51.220 to a few lawyers about it,

00:20:52.280 but we're sort of just talking

00:20:54.840 at this point.

00:20:55.340 Well, I hope you do.

00:20:56.140 Yeah.

00:20:57.220 Hey, Francis,

00:20:58.260 do you want to protect your privacy?

00:21:00.480 Of course I do.

00:21:01.420 Now that I'm

00:21:02.440 an international celebrity

00:21:03.920 who's appeared on hit shows

00:21:06.160 like the Joe Rogan Experience,

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00:22:43.600 She took everything! 1.00

00:22:45.680 Do you know what

00:22:46.540 I find baffling

00:22:47.340 about this entire issue

00:22:48.580 is, number one,

00:22:50.080 we all know

00:22:50.540 what the truth is.

00:22:52.560 Number two,

00:22:53.320 Trans women are women. 0.90

00:22:54.340 Exactly.

00:22:55.200 And trans men are, 0.95

00:22:56.260 no, men.

00:22:57.420 But why is it so toxic?

00:23:00.900 Yeah, I mean,

00:23:01.860 it was really shocking

00:23:03.820 to me because

00:23:04.560 I think as far as

00:23:06.680 extremists on Twitter goes,

00:23:08.740 like, I'm pretty low

00:23:09.740 on my extremism.

00:23:11.620 Yeah.

00:23:12.240 You're pretty chill.

00:23:13.360 Yeah.

00:23:13.860 Like, I'm much more

00:23:14.800 extreme than you, I think.

00:23:15.960 Yeah, I mean,

00:23:16.640 I'm not like a provocateur.

00:23:18.160 I'm not like

00:23:18.600 dunking on people.

00:23:20.020 I'm not telling people

00:23:21.480 they're groomers.

00:23:22.700 Like, I think you should

00:23:24.000 be allowed to say that,

00:23:24.840 but, you know,

00:23:25.520 I'm not there

00:23:26.160 for the clicks, really.

00:23:27.140 I'm there to try

00:23:28.300 to just say, like,

00:23:29.100 here's what biological sex is.

00:23:30.700 Here's why this argument's wrong.

00:23:32.280 I'm pretty benign.

00:23:33.320 And so for that

00:23:34.560 to happen to me,

00:23:35.780 for them to, like,

00:23:36.400 think that I'm sort of

00:23:37.220 beyond the pale,

00:23:38.160 to be treated on par

00:23:39.240 with, like,

00:23:39.540 a domestic terrorist

00:23:40.280 and to shut down

00:23:41.000 his ways he can get income,

00:23:43.760 yeah, it's completely insane.

00:23:45.860 I don't know how he got here.

00:23:47.060 Why do you think

00:23:47.460 they're doing it to you?

00:23:49.680 You know,

00:23:50.180 I'd like to think

00:23:50.860 it's just because

00:23:51.280 I'm really effective,

00:23:52.580 possibly,

00:23:53.100 because I'm kind of hard

00:23:54.240 to villainize in many ways,

00:23:56.400 because I'm not

00:23:57.420 this stereotypical, like,

00:23:59.280 right-wing pundit-type person.

00:24:00.880 And, you know,

00:24:01.620 I was kind of just happily

00:24:02.820 in my lab

00:24:04.120 working with my spiders

00:24:05.940 and wasps and ants,

00:24:07.100 and I didn't want to have to,

00:24:08.420 like, sit up from my workbench,

00:24:10.380 but I did.

00:24:11.700 And so,

00:24:12.860 and now I'm devoting, like,

00:24:14.680 all my time

00:24:15.340 to this one topic.

00:24:17.020 And so I'm really not

00:24:18.140 the type of person

00:24:19.200 you'd expect

00:24:19.800 to be involved

00:24:21.520 in these sort of

00:24:22.920 culture war issues,

00:24:24.100 if you can call it.

00:24:24.600 To me, it's not even,

00:24:25.700 I'm not even a culture warrior.

00:24:26.660 I'm just someone

00:24:27.300 talking about biology,

00:24:29.220 and that's what I try to do.

00:24:30.080 So, I don't know,

00:24:30.720 maybe that's being

00:24:31.420 really effective.

00:24:32.220 Maybe that's the type of voice

00:24:34.220 they want to shut down,

00:24:35.020 because I'm sort of

00:24:35.820 the gateway to people

00:24:36.760 who are pretty reasonable

00:24:38.120 on the left,

00:24:39.140 who want someone

00:24:40.160 who's clearly not just,

00:24:41.460 you know,

00:24:42.120 wearing a MAGA hat

00:24:43.000 trying to tell them,

00:24:44.380 you know,

00:24:45.760 what male and female

00:24:46.480 are or something.

00:24:47.980 And, Colin,

00:24:49.180 was there a specific moment

00:24:50.460 where you thought to yourself,

00:24:51.780 hang on,

00:24:52.340 this is genuinely mental now?

00:24:55.380 It was mental

00:24:56.460 from the beginning,

00:24:58.860 you know,

00:24:59.420 when people were saying

00:25:00.240 there's five sexes. 0.97

00:25:01.260 I mean, that's mental.

00:25:02.140 And when was this, Colin?

00:25:03.340 This was,

00:25:04.140 I was probably seeing this

00:25:05.460 in like 2016, 17.

00:25:08.420 Wow.

00:25:08.860 And then,

00:25:09.500 it wasn't in 2018

00:25:10.680 until I actually wrote about it.

00:25:12.840 You know,

00:25:12.980 I just wanted to stay under the radar,

00:25:14.320 because every time I

00:25:14.920 tried to touch it,

00:25:16.240 it just,

00:25:16.760 it was an electric fence.

00:25:17.740 But really,

00:25:19.820 my criticisms early on

00:25:21.600 about how just crazy

00:25:23.380 these arguments were,

00:25:24.260 it was just a scientific disagreement.

00:25:26.340 It was like,

00:25:26.800 these people are just wrong

00:25:27.580 about what makes a male

00:25:29.600 and a female. 0.98

00:25:30.980 And then,

00:25:31.400 so my first articles

00:25:32.340 really show that.

00:25:33.020 They were just like,

00:25:33.840 here's what a male is,

00:25:35.060 here's what a female is. 1.00

00:25:37.360 And it wasn't until later

00:25:38.580 that I said,

00:25:39.220 well, let me look at

00:25:39.820 where this is coming from.

00:25:40.900 I mean, like,

00:25:41.220 so I looked at the queer theory, 0.82

00:25:42.420 I looked at the gender ideology 0.71

00:25:43.680 that's producing this,

00:25:44.640 and that's just when

00:25:46.080 it got really bonkers.

00:25:48.040 It's just like,

00:25:49.180 this is just

00:25:49.920 completely detached from reality.

00:25:53.500 And it's,

00:25:54.520 you know,

00:25:54.760 when you're denying

00:25:55.380 such a fundamental aspect

00:25:56.660 of what it means

00:25:57.660 to be a homo sapiens,

00:25:59.520 a human being,

00:26:00.540 such as that we're

00:26:01.620 a species that has two sexes,

00:26:04.700 like every other mammal,

00:26:06.300 you know,

00:26:07.020 you can't just get away

00:26:08.300 with denying that

00:26:10.160 and not have insane things crop up.

00:26:12.720 Like, this matters for,

00:26:14.020 you know,

00:26:14.240 males now competing

00:26:15.420 in female sports, 1.00

00:26:16.800 males being transferred

00:26:17.580 to women's prisons 1.00

00:26:18.360 because they just identify

00:26:19.480 as a woman, 1.00

00:26:20.580 and then raping women 1.00

00:26:21.920 who are in those prisons 1.00

00:26:22.660 are impregnating them, 0.96

00:26:23.760 and now we've got to

00:26:24.580 move them out

00:26:25.120 and shuffle them around.

00:26:26.020 It's like,

00:26:26.860 these are the kinds of things

00:26:27.840 that happen

00:26:28.520 when you're denying

00:26:29.800 just these fundamental aspects

00:26:31.260 of human biology.

00:26:33.120 And then,

00:26:33.800 as I mentioned,

00:26:34.600 I think before the show,

00:26:35.880 I've been talking about

00:26:36.800 going on these

00:26:37.540 Facebook groups

00:26:39.680 with these parents

00:26:40.760 who are having their kids

00:26:41.960 go through gender medicine. 0.81

00:26:44.460 You know,

00:26:44.680 kids,

00:26:45.000 sometimes we had a mom 0.99

00:26:46.180 talk about her

00:26:46.980 four-month-old

00:26:48.260 being trans

00:26:49.360 because when she says

00:26:50.460 the word boy

00:26:51.140 to her daughter,

00:26:52.980 a boy kind of makes a,

00:26:54.620 or the daughter

00:26:55.080 sort of makes a weird

00:26:56.200 frowny face.

00:26:57.220 And so now they're talking

00:26:58.060 about, you know,

00:26:58.700 transitioning this kid.

00:27:00.240 Parents talking about

00:27:01.140 getting their

00:27:01.640 11-year-olds

00:27:02.800 on puberty blockers,

00:27:03.800 trying to rush them

00:27:04.440 to get double mastectomies 0.99

00:27:05.820 or to have their testicles 0.96

00:27:07.020 removed. 1.00

00:27:08.940 I mean,

00:27:09.560 it's been,

00:27:10.760 it was insane to begin with

00:27:12.120 and at every step

00:27:13.480 along the line

00:27:14.060 it's just gotten more insane.

00:27:16.180 So, yeah,

00:27:17.480 it's all crazy.

00:27:18.760 It's all crazy.

00:27:19.640 So you use these terms

00:27:21.060 like queer theory, 0.59

00:27:22.720 gender theory,

00:27:23.660 and all of this.

00:27:25.040 Can you explain

00:27:26.080 what queer theory is?

00:27:27.320 Because I don't have

00:27:28.440 the first idea.

00:27:29.400 I've heard of it.

00:27:30.820 It doesn't seem to me

00:27:32.400 like any type of,

00:27:34.540 I don't know,

00:27:34.920 serious investigative subject.

00:27:37.360 I don't know if those

00:27:38.000 are the right words to use.

00:27:39.700 So explain to us

00:27:40.640 what this actually means.

00:27:42.040 So someone like

00:27:43.020 James Lindsay

00:27:44.520 or Helen Pluckrose, 0.99

00:27:45.340 they could give you

00:27:45.980 the full,

00:27:47.100 like,

00:27:47.640 underneath where everything

00:27:48.800 and the intellectual history

00:27:50.640 of this,

00:27:51.060 I'll just sort of

00:27:51.600 boil it down,

00:27:52.860 I guess,

00:27:53.620 to what,

00:27:54.240 how this,

00:27:54.800 how it manifests

00:27:55.820 in the real world here.

00:27:58.040 It's basically

00:27:58.920 just this idea

00:28:00.320 that people

00:28:01.880 are creating

00:28:02.760 binaries

00:28:03.620 in the universe.

00:28:04.920 male or female,

00:28:06.340 gay or straight,

00:28:07.240 things like this.

00:28:08.400 And that these actually

00:28:09.600 aren't realities.

00:28:11.460 That people

00:28:12.580 reify

00:28:13.440 these realities

00:28:14.600 through language

00:28:15.440 in order to maintain

00:28:17.780 and preserve

00:28:18.820 their own power

00:28:19.700 in a certain situation.

00:28:20.740 So they'll say

00:28:21.220 something like,

00:28:22.620 you know,

00:28:22.900 white colonialists

00:28:24.060 invented the idea

00:28:25.960 of biological sex

00:28:27.120 because they wanted

00:28:28.340 to oppress women. 0.64

00:28:29.500 and this was,

00:28:31.380 and they'll even

00:28:32.380 include racism

00:28:33.120 in this thing too

00:28:33.960 and how,

00:28:36.080 you know,

00:28:36.420 they've masculinized 0.92

00:28:37.540 black women 1.00

00:28:38.420 or things like that. 0.77

00:28:39.600 So it's,

00:28:40.220 it's completely insane.

00:28:41.320 It's just,

00:28:41.820 it's all using

00:28:42.680 sort of this

00:28:43.320 Foucault

00:28:44.500 who's,

00:28:45.660 you know,

00:28:46.020 sort of postmodern

00:28:46.660 philosopher

00:28:47.120 who thinks that

00:28:48.000 power dynamics

00:28:48.780 are fueling

00:28:49.460 basically everything

00:28:50.500 we know about reality

00:28:51.400 and the way

00:28:53.140 we use language

00:28:53.680 structures reality.

00:28:55.020 So they'll take

00:28:55.480 something like

00:28:55.960 biological sex

00:28:56.880 that we know

00:28:58.260 is defined by

00:28:59.260 like your

00:28:59.560 reproductive anatomy

00:29:00.380 and they'll say,

00:29:02.020 well,

00:29:02.360 here's an example

00:29:03.440 of a person

00:29:03.940 who's got some

00:29:04.640 sort of ambiguous

00:29:05.280 sexual anatomy.

00:29:06.820 Well,

00:29:07.020 this calls into

00:29:07.560 question the entire

00:29:08.540 premise that

00:29:09.700 there's only two sexes. 1.00

00:29:11.620 They basically just

00:29:12.540 try to like blur

00:29:13.240 every single line

00:29:14.280 that they can

00:29:14.700 possibly find

00:29:15.560 in order to,

00:29:17.180 you know,

00:29:17.320 and if they can find

00:29:18.100 one way to blur

00:29:18.980 something a little bit,

00:29:20.280 they'll just extend

00:29:21.120 that blur

00:29:21.680 to the entire picture

00:29:22.800 and say,

00:29:23.560 we have no idea

00:29:24.060 what we're talking about.

00:29:24.740 We're just drawing

00:29:25.320 these lines arbitrarily

00:29:26.380 everywhere.

00:29:27.220 But the fact that

00:29:27.900 they even know

00:29:28.480 to think,

00:29:29.100 to go to the

00:29:30.000 intersex people, 0.99

00:29:31.260 to use them 0.96

00:29:32.100 as an example

00:29:32.620 shows that,

00:29:33.420 well,

00:29:33.520 they actually know

00:29:34.140 where that line is

00:29:35.360 because otherwise

00:29:36.680 they wouldn't know

00:29:37.400 to go to that line.

00:29:39.020 So the fact that

00:29:40.320 they know where to go

00:29:41.540 to try to like

00:29:42.660 blow up these categories

00:29:44.280 shows that the categories

00:29:45.540 themselves are pretty robust

00:29:46.680 because they know

00:29:48.280 exactly where the line is

00:29:49.480 and that's where they

00:29:50.100 try to drill in

00:29:51.400 their ideology too.

00:29:52.280 And we were speaking

00:29:54.520 to a supporter of ours

00:29:55.900 earlier in this trip

00:29:56.900 about,

00:29:58.080 and he actually said

00:29:59.060 that this postmodernist

00:30:00.700 stuff came to the

00:30:01.780 hard sciences first.

00:30:04.000 I don't know

00:30:04.720 whether that's accurate.

00:30:05.600 You're nodding.

00:30:06.220 Is that accurate?

00:30:07.280 So,

00:30:08.100 yes.

00:30:08.960 So there was like

00:30:09.940 the,

00:30:10.760 Alan Sokol,

00:30:12.620 he was,

00:30:13.460 I think,

00:30:13.840 a physicist

00:30:14.320 and there were a lot

00:30:15.880 of these like

00:30:16.260 postmodern journals

00:30:17.520 that would,

00:30:18.240 you know,

00:30:18.540 using these new age

00:30:19.540 jargon,

00:30:20.220 postmodern type,

00:30:22.160 you know,

00:30:22.360 they were completely

00:30:23.080 nonsensical.

00:30:23.960 I can't even like

00:30:24.800 come up with them.

00:30:25.540 There's online generators

00:30:26.820 where you can just like

00:30:27.540 generate titles

00:30:29.720 for postmodern papers

00:30:30.740 like this

00:30:31.220 and you can't tell

00:30:32.720 the difference.

00:30:33.240 It's like,

00:30:33.580 here's a real one,

00:30:34.360 here's a generated one.

00:30:35.880 You can't tell.

00:30:37.640 And so he ended up

00:30:39.120 submitting a paper

00:30:40.000 that was completely made up,

00:30:42.520 just a bunch of jargon words

00:30:43.660 and he was able

00:30:44.480 to get it published

00:30:45.060 in I think a pretty

00:30:45.800 substantial,

00:30:46.560 well,

00:30:47.300 postmodern journal

00:30:48.000 at the time.

00:30:48.460 And so that was

00:30:49.260 the first like

00:30:49.840 Sokal hoax 0.99

00:30:50.720 of he punked

00:30:52.340 these postmodern journals

00:30:53.660 and showed that

00:30:54.140 they're actually

00:30:54.660 completely devoid

00:30:56.100 of all intellectual

00:30:57.020 rigor whatsoever.

00:30:58.900 So that was

00:31:00.240 a big blow up

00:31:00.880 and he's kind of,

00:31:01.960 they kind of,

00:31:02.440 the postmodernism

00:31:03.040 went away.

00:31:04.140 It was laughed

00:31:04.940 out of the room

00:31:05.420 basically.

00:31:06.420 And then it kind of

00:31:07.140 came back in recently.

00:31:09.600 Well,

00:31:10.100 it's been in the universities

00:31:11.280 but it's been in like

00:31:11.900 these humanities departments

00:31:12.880 but it's crept its way

00:31:14.240 into biology

00:31:15.000 and a lot of other places

00:31:16.140 by sort of

00:31:17.600 cloaking themselves

00:31:18.700 in rainbow flags

00:31:19.760 where before it was

00:31:21.840 just sort of like

00:31:22.500 this crazy ideology

00:31:23.520 you could criticize it

00:31:24.520 and there was no

00:31:25.040 social repercussions

00:31:25.840 for criticizing it.

00:31:26.760 It's just,

00:31:27.400 this is crazy jargon,

00:31:28.540 haha.

00:31:29.400 But now it's like

00:31:30.440 when you criticize the jargon

00:31:32.620 in the sense it's like

00:31:33.240 wreathed in a rainbow flag

00:31:34.520 and it's being used

00:31:35.920 as sort of this LGBT, 0.58

00:31:38.380 you know,

00:31:38.840 infused in all of their

00:31:39.920 new ideologies.

00:31:41.220 Is that how it happens,

00:31:42.780 Colin?

00:31:43.000 Because look,

00:31:43.680 I imagine most biologists

00:31:45.320 didn't go into biology

00:31:48.120 to pretend that there

00:31:50.820 is a million genders. 0.98

00:31:52.080 I mean,

00:31:52.440 they would have all been taught,

00:31:53.900 I imagine,

00:31:54.540 at school,

00:31:55.080 as we were,

00:31:56.180 about the basic

00:31:57.120 biological nature of humans

00:31:58.800 and other mammals,

00:32:00.020 as you say.

00:32:00.920 So how have we got

00:32:02.200 to a point where

00:32:03.740 someone like you

00:32:04.880 who continues to believe that

00:32:07.180 and advocate for that view

00:32:08.640 is pushed out?

00:32:10.500 Is it cowardice?

00:32:11.860 Do some of these people,

00:32:13.000 are they actual converts

00:32:14.220 in these departments

00:32:16.000 and universities?

00:32:17.440 Why have we got

00:32:18.640 an ideology

00:32:19.340 that doesn't make much sense

00:32:21.340 in terms of the science

00:32:22.940 taking over

00:32:24.340 the hard sciences

00:32:25.780 that we've all

00:32:26.580 been learning

00:32:27.420 for hundreds of years?

00:32:29.900 I think a lot of people

00:32:31.020 don't believe it.

00:32:31.880 I mean,

00:32:32.020 I'm thinking,

00:32:33.060 specifically,

00:32:33.820 I had some colleagues

00:32:34.600 who I was very close with

00:32:36.020 who I know

00:32:37.220 don't believe any of this stuff,

00:32:39.400 or at least they didn't

00:32:40.180 beforehand.

00:32:41.660 I have,

00:32:42.360 you know,

00:32:42.660 in just our private communications,

00:32:44.160 we used to make fun

00:32:44.720 of the same type of stuff.

00:32:46.980 Some of them got jobs

00:32:48.380 at universities

00:32:49.060 and two weeks later,

00:32:50.300 pronouns showed up

00:32:51.000 on their bios.

00:32:52.360 And then I had

00:32:53.060 even some of them,

00:32:54.140 one in particular,

00:32:54.900 I'm thinking of,

00:32:55.860 send me a text one day

00:32:56.940 knowing that,

00:32:58.020 because I was sort of

00:32:58.760 getting more popular

00:33:00.080 on Twitter,

00:33:00.620 talking about,

00:33:01.360 you know,

00:33:01.920 the sex and debunking

00:33:03.300 the sex spectrum,

00:33:04.060 things like that.

00:33:05.000 And he just told me

00:33:05.920 that I have a lot of colleagues

00:33:06.880 that are reaching out to me

00:33:07.920 seeing that we had

00:33:08.680 co-authored papers together

00:33:09.940 on spiders and wasps

00:33:11.260 and ants and things like that.

00:33:13.200 And they're questioning me

00:33:14.760 about,

00:33:15.240 you know,

00:33:15.480 our relationship.

00:33:16.760 And I was like,

00:33:17.080 oh,

00:33:17.180 well,

00:33:17.300 I mean,

00:33:17.700 you can just tell them

00:33:18.600 I don't agree with Colin

00:33:20.700 on these things,

00:33:21.300 but we did good work

00:33:22.300 on ants and wasps

00:33:23.320 and that seems like

00:33:24.060 it should be

00:33:24.360 a pretty easy conversation

00:33:25.280 I have.

00:33:26.220 But no,

00:33:26.660 he's like,

00:33:26.920 no,

00:33:27.020 I need to denounce you

00:33:28.380 on Twitter

00:33:29.460 and social media.

00:33:31.240 It's like,

00:33:31.500 okay,

00:33:31.760 I mean,

00:33:31.940 I'm fine people

00:33:32.400 criticizing my ideas,

00:33:33.740 but,

00:33:34.300 you know,

00:33:34.980 this public denunciation

00:33:36.400 process really shows

00:33:38.300 the mutual policing

00:33:39.280 that's going on.

00:33:39.900 Colin,

00:33:40.120 so hold on,

00:33:40.780 we're talking about

00:33:42.200 all this stuff

00:33:42.700 like it's like normal.

00:33:44.780 What you're telling me,

00:33:45.760 hold on,

00:33:46.880 what you're telling me

00:33:47.820 is that there are

00:33:48.740 biologists

00:33:49.580 at prominent institutions

00:33:51.840 in the center

00:33:53.260 of learning

00:33:53.860 of the Western world,

00:33:54.800 the United States,

00:33:56.520 who don't believe

00:33:57.660 that there is more

00:33:58.660 than two sexes, 0.51

00:33:59.520 but they will denounce

00:34:00.380 someone like you

00:34:01.100 who says it

00:34:01.800 because they're terrified

00:34:03.240 of the repercussions

00:34:04.240 for their career.

00:34:04.880 Is that what you're telling me?

00:34:05.940 100%,

00:34:06.300 yeah.

00:34:06.900 I know a lot of people

00:34:08.400 reach out,

00:34:08.900 and you should see my DMs.

00:34:10.460 There's so many biologists

00:34:11.600 who reach out

00:34:12.160 saying that they won't even,

00:34:13.420 they don't even want

00:34:14.100 to like a tweet.

00:34:15.440 They'll send me a DM

00:34:16.520 saying,

00:34:16.900 I liked your tweet,

00:34:17.520 but I couldn't

00:34:18.020 like your tweet.

00:34:19.580 Because,

00:34:21.440 I mean,

00:34:21.780 the social,

00:34:22.240 the mutual,

00:34:23.040 you know,

00:34:23.340 social policing

00:34:24.040 that's going on,

00:34:25.220 they can't say these things.

00:34:26.340 So,

00:34:26.720 I mean,

00:34:27.960 isn't biology quite important?

00:34:29.600 Like,

00:34:29.780 I'm not just talking

00:34:30.400 about the trans issue.

00:34:31.460 I mean,

00:34:32.000 biology seems to me

00:34:33.020 like quite an important

00:34:33.820 discipline for understanding

00:34:35.120 medicine and,

00:34:36.900 you know,

00:34:37.220 helping us move forward

00:34:38.200 in all sorts of ways.

00:34:39.700 So,

00:34:39.900 if we've got people

00:34:40.820 who are pretending

00:34:41.740 there's more than two sexes 0.99

00:34:44.120 and denouncing

00:34:45.900 other colleagues in public,

00:34:48.020 how,

00:34:48.620 what will impact

00:34:49.420 is this going to have

00:34:50.160 on human progress?

00:34:51.840 Well,

00:34:52.000 the impacts are massive.

00:34:53.380 As I said,

00:34:53.700 this is a fundamental aspect

00:34:54.740 of our biology.

00:34:56.180 We've seen places

00:34:57.640 like the New England

00:34:58.440 Journal of Medicine,

00:34:59.440 probably the most prestigious

00:35:00.380 medical journal in the world,

00:35:02.440 publish papers about

00:35:03.180 how we shouldn't even put

00:35:04.700 sex on birth certificates

00:35:05.680 anymore because this is

00:35:06.540 irrelevant information.

00:35:07.840 What?

00:35:08.060 Despite the fact that

00:35:08.940 there's just these reviews

00:35:10.400 that are only from

00:35:10.960 a couple years ago

00:35:11.800 and in the past

00:35:13.420 talking about all the

00:35:14.340 sex differences

00:35:15.080 and how heart attacks

00:35:16.760 and how cancer

00:35:17.400 and, you know,

00:35:18.280 the list goes on

00:35:19.240 and they conclude

00:35:19.880 how sex needs to be

00:35:21.740 one of the first variables

00:35:23.060 that you know about somebody

00:35:24.700 when you want to talk about

00:35:25.900 how to give them

00:35:27.240 proper medical care.

00:35:28.340 This is all being erased

00:35:29.620 now in certain areas,

00:35:30.960 mostly Canada,

00:35:31.680 but US big time as well,

00:35:33.720 replacing biological sex

00:35:35.180 with your self-proclaimed

00:35:36.460 gender identity.

00:35:37.780 But,

00:35:38.800 see,

00:35:39.080 this is the thing.

00:35:40.500 All right, mate.

00:35:41.500 Easy.

00:35:42.580 Easy.

00:35:43.100 Breathe.

00:35:43.420 We've been on the road

00:35:44.560 a long time.

00:35:45.100 We go for dinner in a bit.

00:35:45.700 Yeah,

00:35:45.960 we've been on the road

00:35:46.660 a long time.

00:35:47.440 Look,

00:35:48.080 but this is science,

00:35:50.900 Colin.

00:35:52.360 These are scientists.

00:35:54.800 That's why I'm no longer there,

00:35:56.160 yeah.

00:35:56.620 But,

00:35:57.000 but you can't say

00:35:58.380 there's five genders 0.80

00:35:59.420 if it's not true.

00:36:00.880 It's like saying

00:36:01.660 a man can turn into a fish 0.98

00:36:03.320 if he just identifies

00:36:04.420 as a fish.

00:36:06.740 I,

00:36:07.220 I completely agree.

00:36:08.760 It's,

00:36:09.160 it's,

00:36:09.200 it's so bonkers.

00:36:10.440 I mean,

00:36:10.560 I talk about it

00:36:11.400 really casually

00:36:12.000 just because it's

00:36:12.680 what I do now,

00:36:14.000 but I'm fully aware

00:36:15.340 that it is just

00:36:16.440 completely like

00:36:17.700 weapons-grade insanity.

00:36:18.880 It's,

00:36:19.000 it's,

00:36:19.300 it's completely bonkers.

00:36:21.340 And what does that mean

00:36:22.760 for science as a whole

00:36:24.080 and for society?

00:36:25.820 And for society?

00:36:27.260 I mean,

00:36:27.520 one of the things

00:36:28.500 that pissed me off most

00:36:29.500 was,

00:36:30.500 you know,

00:36:30.740 I not only wanted

00:36:32.260 to do research

00:36:33.060 at like the frontier

00:36:33.740 of knowledge

00:36:34.420 and push, 1.00

00:36:35.200 you know,

00:36:35.480 push knowledge outward,

00:36:37.100 but I wanted,

00:36:38.220 I was inspired

00:36:38.780 to be a scientist

00:36:39.420 by really great

00:36:41.060 science communicators

00:36:41.900 like Richard Dawkins

00:36:42.780 and Carl Sagan,

00:36:44.260 people like these

00:36:44.800 who are just

00:36:45.300 amazing science communicators.

00:36:47.980 So I wanted to,

00:36:48.820 I wanted to be that person.

00:36:49.740 I wanted,

00:36:50.200 you know,

00:36:50.420 in public trust in science,

00:36:51.800 you need to have

00:36:52.240 these really great educators

00:36:53.200 to do this.

00:36:54.400 But then we have

00:36:55.540 the same people

00:36:56.280 who are saying that,

00:36:57.400 you know,

00:36:58.780 sex is a social construct,

00:37:00.320 something that children know

00:37:01.860 is a false statement.

00:37:03.640 They know what males 1.00

00:37:04.460 and females are.

00:37:05.760 The same people

00:37:06.520 who are saying that,

00:37:07.440 you know,

00:37:07.720 who are missing,

00:37:08.940 whiffing the bat

00:37:10.920 with the balls

00:37:11.640 right there on the tee.

00:37:12.900 They're just whiffing on that.

00:37:14.520 And then these are

00:37:15.040 the same people

00:37:15.580 who are saying,

00:37:16.720 you know,

00:37:16.880 who are doing something like,

00:37:18.540 you know,

00:37:19.140 disease epidemiology

00:37:21.200 or they're doing climate models

00:37:22.800 that are just

00:37:23.360 orders of magnitude

00:37:24.800 more complex

00:37:25.600 than males and females

00:37:27.280 are real.

00:37:28.940 And we expect to believe

00:37:30.500 these people

00:37:30.940 what they say about this.

00:37:31.920 Now,

00:37:32.080 I'm not gonna,

00:37:32.940 I don't want to say like,

00:37:33.820 we shouldn't believe anyone.

00:37:34.980 I'm just saying that

00:37:35.820 if the public can see

00:37:37.680 that they're getting

00:37:38.320 this question wrong,

00:37:40.040 what is a male?

00:37:41.080 What is a female? 1.00

00:37:42.520 They're just being lied to

00:37:43.920 in their face.

00:37:45.040 How can you expect them

00:37:46.020 to look into

00:37:47.720 these same people's faces

00:37:49.120 when they tell you

00:37:50.000 anything about vaccines

00:37:51.560 or anything about

00:37:52.420 a virus that is spreading

00:37:55.220 across society,

00:37:56.600 what policies are the best thing,

00:37:58.040 anything about climate change?

00:37:59.580 You can't trust anybody.

00:38:01.740 And I think just

00:38:02.960 what the biological sex debate

00:38:04.860 is doing is it's,

00:38:05.820 it is making people

00:38:07.040 just throw up their hands

00:38:08.480 and say,

00:38:08.760 we can't trust

00:38:09.260 any of these people.

00:38:10.160 And I don't blame them.

00:38:11.340 And that's why I just,

00:38:12.820 I'm trying to get people

00:38:13.720 back to the basics

00:38:14.580 on what science is.

00:38:15.620 You know,

00:38:15.720 I didn't want to be

00:38:16.740 in the sciences anymore

00:38:17.620 talking about things

00:38:18.960 on the frontier of,

00:38:20.360 you know,

00:38:20.960 social insect behavior,

00:38:22.980 knowing that

00:38:23.620 half of my classes

00:38:25.120 maybe thinks

00:38:26.500 that there's five sexes.

00:38:27.980 And Colin,

00:38:29.140 I know this is not

00:38:30.500 strictly speaking

00:38:31.520 your discipline.

00:38:32.580 So if you don't

00:38:33.560 want to answer,

00:38:34.120 don't.

00:38:34.360 But what is your view

00:38:35.720 of the idea

00:38:36.620 of the existence

00:38:37.860 of gender identity?

00:38:39.360 Do you believe

00:38:39.920 there is such a thing?

00:38:42.940 No,

00:38:43.460 not in the way

00:38:43.880 that it's usually defined

00:38:44.820 by like a lot

00:38:45.640 of the gender activists.

00:38:46.120 Okay,

00:38:46.300 well let's break it down.

00:38:47.140 Right,

00:38:47.320 so the idea of gender identity

00:38:48.700 is basically

00:38:49.420 there's sex,

00:38:50.300 your body is male 0.94

00:38:51.900 and my body is male

00:38:52.920 and your girlfriend's

00:38:53.900 body is female 0.93

00:38:54.540 but she can feel

00:38:57.360 like a man

00:38:58.740 and I can feel

00:39:00.220 like a woman 0.99

00:39:00.920 and then that's

00:39:02.280 what makes her a man

00:39:03.440 and that's what makes

00:39:04.220 me a woman

00:39:04.760 if that's what I feel.

00:39:06.700 That's how I would

00:39:07.640 describe it.

00:39:08.980 Yeah.

00:39:09.300 Is that simple,

00:39:10.180 is that accurate?

00:39:12.100 So I've heard people

00:39:12.960 tell me that they

00:39:14.060 definitely have this feeling

00:39:15.440 that they would call

00:39:17.580 a gender identity.

00:39:18.360 I don't know

00:39:18.740 if they're just like

00:39:19.420 identifying with

00:39:20.500 their femininity

00:39:21.760 or masculinity. 0.68

00:39:22.960 I don't know

00:39:23.600 what that means.

00:39:24.480 Like,

00:39:25.240 to me,

00:39:25.920 like I don't identify

00:39:26.880 as a man.

00:39:28.280 I guess that makes me

00:39:29.060 non-binary

00:39:30.520 by that definition.

00:39:32.100 Like,

00:39:32.360 I'm just,

00:39:33.220 I'm a biological male

00:39:34.200 and I define a man

00:39:35.560 as an adult human male.

00:39:36.880 Right.

00:39:37.120 So that,

00:39:37.580 then that label

00:39:38.180 applies to me.

00:39:38.960 I don't know

00:39:39.200 what it means

00:39:39.500 to identify as it.

00:39:40.980 Just like I don't

00:39:41.680 identify as straight

00:39:42.880 even though

00:39:43.480 like the label applies

00:39:44.460 because I'm not

00:39:44.920 attracted to men,

00:39:45.680 I'm attracted to women. 1.00

00:39:46.900 It's not an identity,

00:39:47.840 it's just a

00:39:48.660 descriptor

00:39:49.720 of my preferences.

00:39:52.540 You know,

00:39:53.080 I'm a man,

00:39:53.960 it's a descriptor

00:39:54.900 of the fact

00:39:55.500 that I'm an adult

00:39:56.040 human male.

00:39:56.960 So based on that,

00:39:57.740 there is no such thing

00:39:58.460 as gender identity.

00:39:59.100 Yeah,

00:39:59.460 well,

00:39:59.700 there's some trans people

00:40:00.740 that they have

00:40:02.060 gender dysphoria.

00:40:02.880 Yes,

00:40:03.160 that's what I was

00:40:03.520 going to ask you about.

00:40:04.120 But that's just like,

00:40:04.740 that's separate though.

00:40:05.920 That's a whole,

00:40:06.460 that's,

00:40:07.240 they have a condition

00:40:08.220 where they feel

00:40:09.980 that there is

00:40:10.420 this incongruity.

00:40:11.500 Yes.

00:40:11.720 It doesn't mean

00:40:12.180 that you and me

00:40:14.180 who don't feel

00:40:14.920 it incongruity

00:40:15.780 have a gender identity.

00:40:17.460 The only reason

00:40:18.180 that we don't

00:40:19.260 call ourselves trans

00:40:20.100 is because,

00:40:20.720 or we don't feel dysphoria

00:40:21.700 is because our identity

00:40:23.140 and our bodies matches.

00:40:24.600 Like,

00:40:24.720 they have an actual

00:40:25.480 psychological condition

00:40:26.820 that's making them feel

00:40:28.580 like when they look

00:40:29.140 in the mirror

00:40:29.560 there's this

00:40:30.720 sort of disconnect there.

00:40:32.740 And this is the same

00:40:33.360 regions in the brain

00:40:34.100 that light up

00:40:35.000 when people are like

00:40:36.220 anorexic for instance

00:40:37.260 and they look in the mirror

00:40:38.420 and they're real thin

00:40:39.260 but they think they're fat.

00:40:40.740 You know,

00:40:40.880 the same regions

00:40:41.660 in the brain

00:40:42.220 light up for those people

00:40:43.860 as for people

00:40:44.840 who,

00:40:45.300 you know,

00:40:45.680 identify as trans.

00:40:46.700 So it's a condition

00:40:47.500 in the same way

00:40:48.300 if we said,

00:40:49.880 you know,

00:40:50.100 there are people

00:40:50.640 who believe

00:40:51.220 that they have an arm

00:40:52.300 that they don't need

00:40:53.160 for example.

00:40:53.680 Yeah, yeah.

00:40:54.120 That does not mean

00:40:54.920 that we have like

00:40:55.620 a body integrity identity.

00:40:57.560 It just means

00:40:58.180 this person

00:40:58.660 has a particular condition

00:41:00.260 that makes them

00:41:00.820 feel this way.

00:41:01.780 Yeah.

00:41:02.480 Okay.

00:41:02.880 So some people

00:41:03.680 might have

00:41:04.260 what they consider

00:41:05.080 to be a gender identity

00:41:06.140 but I think

00:41:06.640 most people

00:41:07.100 probably don't.

00:41:07.760 They just,

00:41:08.940 they're a man

00:41:10.100 because they're

00:41:10.540 an adult human male

00:41:11.220 and they recognize

00:41:12.400 that fact.

00:41:13.820 You know,

00:41:14.680 the thing that worries

00:41:15.440 me as well,

00:41:16.060 Colin,

00:41:16.400 is just how powerful

00:41:18.720 this ideology is.

00:41:20.380 And it just seems

00:41:21.120 that all these

00:41:21.800 corporations,

00:41:22.800 they use it,

00:41:23.840 you know,

00:41:24.320 in academic institutions,

00:41:26.500 it seems now

00:41:27.160 everybody has got

00:41:28.380 pronouns in their bio

00:41:29.720 even if they're,

00:41:31.640 you know,

00:41:31.900 a retired MMA

00:41:32.840 fighter with a beard,

00:41:34.100 they've got pronouns

00:41:34.880 he, him.

00:41:36.420 Why is it so powerful

00:41:37.820 this ideology?

00:41:39.940 I think a lot of it

00:41:41.060 is sort of

00:41:41.500 what I mentioned earlier

00:41:42.280 how it's cloaked itself

00:41:43.940 in the rainbow flag.

00:41:46.660 It,

00:41:47.220 it's a lot of just

00:41:49.020 like this social

00:41:49.820 mutual policing

00:41:50.820 as well

00:41:51.460 that's going on.

00:41:53.200 You know,

00:41:53.440 the pronouns,

00:41:55.120 I wrote a piece

00:41:55.780 about this

00:41:56.160 for the Wall Street Journal

00:41:56.860 about you should

00:41:57.460 and why you shouldn't

00:41:58.720 participate in these

00:41:59.600 pronoun rituals

00:42:00.360 that I call them

00:42:01.080 because it really

00:42:02.560 is sort of like

00:42:03.200 a wedge

00:42:03.740 for gender ideology

00:42:04.960 to get in there

00:42:05.500 because what it

00:42:06.860 tells you,

00:42:07.600 what people are saying

00:42:08.340 when they want to

00:42:08.920 ask your pronouns

00:42:09.740 is they're saying

00:42:10.400 that there's

00:42:11.860 something different.

00:42:12.580 There's a gender identity

00:42:13.520 and then there's

00:42:14.080 your sex. 0.99

00:42:15.080 So when you ask

00:42:15.720 somebody,

00:42:16.320 you know,

00:42:16.560 what are your pronouns,

00:42:17.800 I can clearly

00:42:18.740 identify that you're

00:42:19.880 males.

00:42:20.740 So if I'm asking you

00:42:21.600 what are your pronouns,

00:42:22.660 that's saying that

00:42:23.180 there's,

00:42:23.640 there could be

00:42:24.000 some other,

00:42:24.540 your brain might be

00:42:25.220 different in some way.

00:42:26.400 You might identify

00:42:27.140 as a woman

00:42:28.400 or something.

00:42:28.960 And so what that does

00:42:31.640 is it sort of

00:42:32.340 greases the wheels

00:42:33.020 for gender ideology.

00:42:34.220 So if you were to say

00:42:35.160 that,

00:42:35.780 you know,

00:42:36.040 if I might respond

00:42:37.080 that,

00:42:37.540 well,

00:42:37.640 my pronouns are

00:42:38.540 he,

00:42:38.740 him,

00:42:39.180 I'm just saying that

00:42:40.300 because I'm an adult

00:42:41.660 human male.

00:42:42.360 That's what I think.

00:42:43.420 I'm using sex-based 0.99

00:42:44.480 pronouns.

00:42:45.500 But since the gender 0.98

00:42:46.380 ideologues,

00:42:47.320 the way they define

00:42:48.280 males and females

00:42:48.960 is according to

00:42:49.580 like these social

00:42:50.300 rules and expectations

00:42:51.320 based on your sex.

00:42:53.420 So,

00:42:53.700 you know,

00:42:53.880 I'm responding

00:42:54.640 based on what my sex is.

00:42:56.400 What they hear is

00:42:57.100 that I identify

00:42:57.820 with these stereotypes

00:42:58.820 of masculinity,

00:42:59.900 et cetera.

00:43:00.780 And so,

00:43:01.420 that's not what I'm saying.

00:43:04.660 And that ideology

00:43:06.260 actually reifies

00:43:07.620 these sexist notions

00:43:08.720 that you can't be

00:43:10.600 a man

00:43:11.500 unless you're masculine 0.59

00:43:12.420 and you can't be a female 0.99

00:43:13.520 or woman

00:43:14.060 unless you're feminine. 1.00

00:43:15.380 This is something that,

00:43:16.620 you know,

00:43:16.980 I think a lot of the

00:43:18.100 feminist movement

00:43:18.820 had worked tirelessly

00:43:20.800 to dissociate

00:43:22.120 these notions

00:43:23.040 of womanhood

00:43:23.820 and manhood

00:43:24.300 from these stereotypes

00:43:25.600 of masculinity

00:43:26.420 and femininity. 1.00

00:43:27.100 And the gender ideology 0.98

00:43:28.460 comes in

00:43:29.040 and just fuses them

00:43:30.680 back together again

00:43:31.640 and pronouns

00:43:32.620 is one way

00:43:33.240 that they're doing that.

00:43:34.020 That's one way

00:43:35.820 that they get their foot

00:43:36.500 in the door

00:43:36.860 to sort of normalize

00:43:38.020 this disconnect

00:43:38.980 between your sex 1.00

00:43:39.800 and your gender identity

00:43:40.760 across society.

00:43:42.020 Most people are even

00:43:42.780 asking you

00:43:43.400 what your pronouns are

00:43:44.400 at like a university

00:43:45.880 or at a corporation.

00:43:48.540 They probably don't even

00:43:49.120 know what they're doing.

00:43:50.220 They're just told

00:43:50.680 this is an inclusive

00:43:51.440 language to use.

00:43:52.700 But it should be resisted

00:43:54.920 because that is

00:43:55.460 normalizing

00:43:56.180 this gender ideology 1.00

00:43:57.360 and that sex and gender

00:43:58.600 are these wildly

00:43:59.900 different things

00:44:00.520 and that,

00:44:01.620 you know,

00:44:02.120 you can be a male

00:44:02.820 but you can really

00:44:03.540 be a woman.

00:44:04.040 Hey Francis,

00:44:06.800 do you believe in

00:44:07.600 diversity and inclusion?

00:44:09.300 Of course I do.

00:44:10.480 My dating history

00:44:11.740 is filled with

00:44:12.940 diversity and inclusion.

00:44:14.940 I am nothing

00:44:15.740 if not

00:44:16.560 an equal opportunities employer.

00:44:18.720 All your previous partners

00:44:19.920 do seem to be

00:44:20.580 of the same sex.

00:44:21.680 I'm not that inclusive.

00:44:23.460 But if you are worried

00:44:24.480 about the polarizing effect

00:44:26.080 of diversity and inclusion

00:44:27.540 in workplaces,

00:44:28.860 then you have to attend

00:44:29.820 the Counterweight conference

00:44:31.020 on liberal approaches

00:44:32.240 to diversity and inclusion.

00:44:34.260 We've had people

00:44:34.980 from Counterweight

00:44:35.780 on this very show

00:44:37.280 to talk about

00:44:38.520 how this can be achieved.

00:44:40.440 They're great people

00:44:41.360 who want to improve society.

00:44:43.520 Counterweight believe

00:44:44.380 that there is a need

00:44:45.220 for diversity and inclusion

00:44:46.460 that aims to eliminate

00:44:48.060 workplace racism

00:44:49.120 and discrimination

00:44:49.940 through a liberal

00:44:50.960 and unifying lens.

00:44:52.720 The current way

00:44:53.400 isn't working

00:44:54.140 and we need

00:44:55.000 a less divisive approach.

00:44:56.780 The speakers are also

00:44:57.780 former guests of ours

00:44:58.980 including Eric Kaufman.

00:45:00.680 They're also giving

00:45:01.400 free access

00:45:02.200 for a very limited time

00:45:03.760 to a huge variety

00:45:05.360 of resources

00:45:06.100 showing how diversity

00:45:07.540 and inclusion

00:45:08.500 can be done properly

00:45:10.120 without all the

00:45:11.380 reactory nonsense

00:45:12.480 peddled by those 0.64

00:45:13.780 who shall not be named.

00:45:15.100 So if you're interested

00:45:16.040 in making your workplace

00:45:17.140 better for everyone,

00:45:18.700 then you have to check out

00:45:19.600 the Counterweight conference

00:45:20.680 on liberal approaches

00:45:21.860 to diversity and inclusion.

00:45:23.880 We promise

00:45:24.480 there won't be

00:45:25.100 any lectures

00:45:25.840 with titles like

00:45:26.940 why painting your bathroom,

00:45:28.400 why is a microaggression.

00:45:30.100 It's an online conference

00:45:32.040 on the 22nd

00:45:33.600 to the 25th of September.

00:45:35.920 Go to

00:45:36.500 cw.heyseysummit.com

00:45:43.340 and use our code

00:45:44.780 TriggerPod20

00:45:46.000 at checkout

00:45:47.000 for 20% off

00:45:48.880 an all-access pass.

00:45:50.400 Go to

00:45:51.020 cw.heyseysummit.com

00:45:53.500 and use our code

00:45:54.380 TriggerPod20

00:45:55.280 at checkout

00:45:55.920 for 20% off

00:45:57.340 an all-access pass.

00:45:59.920 Where are we

00:46:01.040 in the attempt

00:46:03.140 to challenge

00:46:04.000 some of this?

00:46:04.900 In the time

00:46:05.720 that Francis and I

00:46:06.600 have been travelling

00:46:07.280 around the US

00:46:08.160 the last couple of weeks,

00:46:09.540 we've seen

00:46:10.140 in the UK

00:46:10.800 quite a bit of progress

00:46:12.360 being made.

00:46:13.200 We've seen

00:46:13.680 the shutting down

00:46:14.680 of the Tavistock Clinic.

00:46:15.800 We had Marcus Evans,

00:46:16.960 a whistleblower

00:46:17.600 from that clinic

00:46:18.480 on the show.

00:46:19.940 And that was

00:46:20.420 shut down

00:46:20.880 because there

00:46:22.280 were concerns

00:46:22.900 that children

00:46:23.340 were being railroaded

00:46:24.680 down the path

00:46:25.200 of transition

00:46:25.740 when it wasn't

00:46:26.660 the right answer

00:46:27.560 for their particular

00:46:28.440 problems.

00:46:29.120 We've seen

00:46:29.760 the Maya 4 starter

00:46:30.740 case recently

00:46:31.700 in the UK,

00:46:32.440 the Alison Bailey

00:46:33.160 case,

00:46:34.160 and on and on

00:46:35.320 and on we go.

00:46:36.780 It seems to me

00:46:37.920 that we are

00:46:38.800 making some progress

00:46:40.140 in the UK,

00:46:41.020 thank God.

00:46:42.540 Where are you

00:46:43.200 in the US?

00:46:44.860 Nowhere near

00:46:45.620 where the UK is.

00:46:47.080 You know,

00:46:47.220 the UK is really

00:46:47.800 inspirational and

00:46:48.620 we're hoping

00:46:49.220 that we can

00:46:50.240 point to the UK

00:46:51.800 and a lot of

00:46:52.420 other European

00:46:53.980 countries because

00:46:54.720 a lot of,

00:46:55.180 you know,

00:46:55.400 Finland and Sweden

00:46:56.080 they've changed

00:46:56.540 some of their

00:46:56.880 gender policies,

00:46:58.320 backed away from

00:46:58.940 this affirm-only

00:46:59.880 approach and,

00:47:00.640 you know,

00:47:00.900 therapy first

00:47:01.660 and that type

00:47:02.220 of thing.

00:47:03.320 Because a lot

00:47:03.880 of people on

00:47:04.660 the left in the

00:47:05.080 US like to

00:47:05.500 point to European

00:47:06.340 countries and be

00:47:06.980 like, oh,

00:47:07.220 how progressive

00:47:07.700 they are.

00:47:08.580 And so if

00:47:08.860 they're changing

00:47:09.320 their policies,

00:47:10.440 maybe that'll

00:47:11.040 make them think

00:47:11.780 like maybe we

00:47:12.300 should put

00:47:13.100 on the brakes

00:47:13.480 a little bit.

00:47:14.140 Well,

00:47:14.260 we are progressive

00:47:14.980 by comparison to

00:47:16.480 the US,

00:47:16.780 which is not insane.

00:47:17.500 Yeah,

00:47:17.940 exactly.

00:47:19.080 The US,

00:47:20.020 we're making

00:47:20.380 some progress

00:47:21.520 on the sports

00:47:22.920 front.

00:47:23.400 Like there's

00:47:23.700 been some

00:47:24.180 organizations that

00:47:25.640 have come out

00:47:26.200 and updated

00:47:27.420 their policies

00:47:28.080 on, you know,

00:47:29.660 how males can

00:47:31.000 compete in

00:47:31.380 female sports. 1.00

00:47:33.160 But really,

00:47:34.080 past that,

00:47:35.300 not much.

00:47:38.260 There's some

00:47:39.480 lawsuits that are

00:47:40.360 being done right

00:47:40.980 now in California

00:47:41.880 about males

00:47:44.100 being transferred

00:47:44.620 to female prisons. 1.00

00:47:46.280 But everything

00:47:46.800 is still very

00:47:47.900 much moving

00:47:48.460 towards the

00:47:49.140 affirm only.

00:47:50.400 You know,

00:47:50.560 we have

00:47:50.980 Biden administration,

00:47:52.660 Biden come out

00:47:53.140 there,

00:47:53.320 the best thing

00:47:54.080 you can do

00:47:54.520 is affirm

00:47:54.980 your transgender

00:47:55.560 child.

00:47:56.860 Rachel Levine,

00:47:58.140 the transgender

00:47:58.820 admiral health

00:48:00.540 person,

00:48:01.520 saying the same

00:48:02.100 thing.

00:48:02.680 You know,

00:48:02.900 this is just

00:48:03.640 wildly incongruent

00:48:04.880 with some of

00:48:05.980 the review studies

00:48:07.400 that have been

00:48:07.700 taking place

00:48:08.240 in the UK

00:48:09.960 and Finland

00:48:10.740 and Sweden.

00:48:11.980 And the only

00:48:12.320 place in the US

00:48:13.020 that has done

00:48:13.540 a similar

00:48:14.000 nonpartisan review

00:48:16.580 had been Florida.

00:48:18.180 And they've also

00:48:19.160 concluded that

00:48:19.980 this affirm-only

00:48:21.280 approach needs

00:48:21.920 to be backed

00:48:22.380 away from

00:48:22.820 and they need

00:48:23.980 to sort of

00:48:24.380 do more

00:48:24.660 explorative therapy

00:48:25.480 before we put

00:48:26.980 kids down

00:48:27.380 this pathway

00:48:27.900 to irreversible

00:48:30.140 surgeries.

00:48:31.260 In the UK,

00:48:32.280 we've got heroes

00:48:33.360 like Kira Bell,

00:48:34.520 who I'm sure

00:48:35.120 you know of

00:48:35.760 who went

00:48:36.720 quite a lot

00:48:37.780 of the way

00:48:38.220 through her

00:48:39.680 transition

00:48:40.260 before realising

00:48:42.020 that it was

00:48:42.500 desperately wrong

00:48:43.440 and being left

00:48:44.360 unfortunately

00:48:46.260 really severely

00:48:47.660 harmed by

00:48:48.440 these drugs.

00:48:49.640 Do you think

00:48:50.340 that the real

00:48:51.480 pushback will

00:48:52.220 happen when we

00:48:53.060 get a wave

00:48:53.680 of detransitioners 1.00

00:48:54.840 in the US

00:48:55.720 suing these

00:48:57.040 clinics,

00:48:57.920 suing these

00:48:58.800 surgeons,

00:48:59.900 etc.?

00:49:00.540 That's the

00:49:01.360 moment when

00:49:01.880 people are

00:49:02.260 going to wake

00:49:02.680 up,

00:49:02.880 when it's

00:49:03.180 actually going

00:49:03.580 to hit 0.99

00:49:03.780 them in 0.99

00:49:04.020 their pocket.

00:49:04.480 As soon as

00:49:05.860 the lawyers

00:49:06.600 start swarming,

00:49:07.440 there needs

00:49:07.700 to be a

00:49:08.120 precedent-setting

00:49:09.200 lawsuit that

00:49:10.460 goes through.

00:49:11.440 The UK has

00:49:12.100 that with

00:49:12.380 Kira Bell.

00:49:13.300 We don't have

00:49:13.680 anything like

00:49:14.120 that in the

00:49:14.480 US at the

00:49:14.980 moment.

00:49:16.260 I don't know

00:49:16.480 if you've

00:49:16.680 been driving

00:49:17.580 a lot in

00:49:17.920 the US,

00:49:18.260 you probably

00:49:18.560 see a lot

00:49:18.940 of these

00:49:19.140 signs,

00:49:20.180 have you

00:49:20.640 been injured

00:49:21.080 at work?

00:49:21.660 Call me,

00:49:22.640 I'll get

00:49:22.880 you your

00:49:23.140 money.

00:49:24.360 We're a

00:49:24.860 really litigious 0.98

00:49:25.380 society in

00:49:26.420 the US.

00:49:27.920 I've been

00:49:28.440 talking to

00:49:28.900 some lawyers

00:49:29.380 who are

00:49:30.120 really pivoting

00:49:31.160 because they

00:49:31.400 think this

00:49:31.780 is going to

00:49:32.080 be a big

00:49:33.020 area,

00:49:33.480 the gender

00:49:34.140 medicine,

00:49:34.980 people being

00:49:35.560 damaged in

00:49:36.200 the next

00:49:36.460 couple of

00:49:36.740 years and

00:49:37.120 coming out

00:49:37.620 and saying

00:49:37.900 why was I

00:49:39.360 allowed to

00:49:39.860 chop my 1.00

00:49:40.600 breasts off 1.00

00:49:41.060 at 13?

00:49:43.440 I can

00:49:45.360 imagine

00:49:45.820 billboards

00:49:47.120 that are

00:49:47.380 going to

00:49:47.580 be,

00:49:47.960 were you

00:49:48.380 transitioned

00:49:48.900 at a

00:49:49.740 young age?

00:49:50.440 Were you

00:49:50.600 put on

00:49:50.960 blockers?

00:49:51.540 Were you

00:49:51.740 given a

00:49:52.040 mastectomy

00:49:52.500 when you

00:49:52.800 were a

00:49:53.080 child?

00:49:54.320 Once that

00:49:54.920 happens,

00:49:55.320 once the

00:49:55.640 lawyers start

00:49:56.180 swarming,

00:49:57.240 I think it's

00:49:57.900 going to be

00:49:58.180 game over

00:49:58.600 for that.

00:50:01.060 Colin,

00:50:02.180 I don't know

00:50:03.020 about you,

00:50:03.480 you know

00:50:04.740 what really

00:50:05.240 worries me

00:50:05.660 about this?

00:50:06.100 Obviously it's

00:50:07.520 the children,

00:50:08.360 it's the women 1.00

00:50:08.900 who are being 0.64

00:50:09.400 raped in 0.93

00:50:09.840 prison,

00:50:10.420 it's all

00:50:10.900 of that.

00:50:11.540 And that's

00:50:11.940 terrible,

00:50:12.400 it's awful,

00:50:12.880 it really is.

00:50:14.360 And also,

00:50:15.140 on top of

00:50:15.700 that,

00:50:16.000 I'll be honest

00:50:18.740 with you,

00:50:19.000 I'm just being

00:50:19.680 very honest

00:50:20.120 with you,

00:50:20.460 it kind of

00:50:21.640 undermines my

00:50:23.120 faith in

00:50:23.580 humanity quite

00:50:24.340 a bit because

00:50:24.920 I go,

00:50:25.840 if a significant

00:50:27.020 number of

00:50:27.560 people are

00:50:27.940 prepared to go

00:50:28.580 along with

00:50:29.000 this,

00:50:30.580 what else

00:50:32.380 can we be

00:50:33.300 persuaded to

00:50:34.080 go along

00:50:34.500 with in the

00:50:35.000 name of

00:50:35.360 ideology or

00:50:36.180 just to

00:50:36.620 avoid being

00:50:37.460 fired from

00:50:38.380 our universities

00:50:39.260 or whatever?

00:50:40.680 Do you

00:50:41.620 sometimes feel

00:50:42.320 like this is

00:50:42.960 kind of a

00:50:43.400 sign of just

00:50:44.020 like a

00:50:44.720 society that's

00:50:45.420 gone a bit

00:50:45.820 mad?

00:50:46.140 Yeah,

00:50:47.660 I mean,

00:50:47.860 I've been

00:50:48.220 really,

00:50:49.400 I guess,

00:50:52.440 saddened,

00:50:53.440 I guess,

00:50:53.800 by the fact

00:50:54.700 that so

00:50:55.140 many people

00:50:55.780 can listen

00:50:56.960 to these

00:50:57.920 obvious

00:50:59.140 falsehoods

00:51:00.340 about

00:51:00.740 biological

00:51:01.520 sex, 0.67

00:51:01.940 things like

00:51:02.240 that,

00:51:03.000 and just

00:51:03.480 take it

00:51:04.920 and just

00:51:05.220 swallow it

00:51:05.940 and parrot

00:51:06.820 it without

00:51:07.600 even thinking.

00:51:08.360 Like,

00:51:08.480 it's one of

00:51:09.660 the most

00:51:09.880 insane things

00:51:10.540 I can imagine

00:51:11.080 someone actually

00:51:11.640 believing and

00:51:12.240 then throwing

00:51:13.400 back out there

00:51:14.020 and then also

00:51:14.560 not even just

00:51:15.120 to be,

00:51:15.680 you know,

00:51:15.800 it would be

00:51:15.920 one thing

00:51:16.220 if it was

00:51:16.560 just people

00:51:16.960 online saying

00:51:17.540 this stuff

00:51:17.920 but to have

00:51:18.520 institution after

00:51:19.680 institution

00:51:20.160 being completely

00:51:21.760 captured by

00:51:22.460 this.

00:51:23.640 I mean,

00:51:24.040 I have an

00:51:24.600 article I'm

00:51:25.000 working on

00:51:25.520 that looks

00:51:27.220 at sort of

00:51:27.980 the main

00:51:28.880 scientific

00:51:29.460 institutions

00:51:30.340 that we have

00:51:30.920 and also

00:51:31.220 the human

00:51:31.540 rights

00:51:31.820 institutions

00:51:32.420 and how

00:51:33.240 they're

00:51:33.440 defining

00:51:33.800 what it

00:51:34.100 means to

00:51:34.420 be

00:51:34.560 transgender

00:51:34.920 now

00:51:35.380 and how

00:51:36.140 in the

00:51:37.220 literal

00:51:37.440 definitions

00:51:37.960 of the

00:51:38.980 Planned

00:51:39.700 Parenthood

00:51:40.180 human rights

00:51:41.080 campaign

00:51:41.540 they talk

00:51:42.980 about how

00:51:43.580 you're

00:51:43.880 transgender 0.85

00:51:44.320 if your

00:51:45.340 gender identity

00:51:46.120 doesn't conform

00:51:47.420 with your

00:51:47.920 sex assigned

00:51:48.700 at birth

00:51:49.020 but then

00:51:49.280 they also

00:51:49.560 say

00:51:49.820 or your

00:51:50.280 gender

00:51:50.500 expression

00:51:51.040 so

00:51:52.460 gender

00:51:53.020 nonconformity

00:51:53.880 basically

00:51:54.480 is how

00:51:54.800 they're

00:51:54.960 defining

00:51:55.300 being

00:51:55.700 trans

00:51:56.060 now

00:51:56.340 and then

00:51:57.040 you go

00:51:57.280 to the

00:51:57.500 places

00:51:57.740 like

00:51:58.060 the

00:51:58.380 CDC

00:51:59.140 Center

00:51:59.680 for

00:51:59.900 Disease

00:52:00.640 Control

00:52:01.020 in the

00:52:01.220 US

00:52:01.480 to the

00:52:03.220 endocrine

00:52:03.940 society

00:52:04.480 to the

00:52:05.200 American

00:52:05.520 Psychiatric

00:52:06.620 society

00:52:07.100 society

00:52:07.120 they are

00:52:07.880 all

00:52:08.120 defining

00:52:08.520 transgenderism

00:52:09.260 according

00:52:09.640 to gender

00:52:11.040 nonconformity

00:52:11.840 now

00:52:11.980 if you

00:52:12.160 just don't

00:52:12.500 define

00:52:12.800 what the

00:52:13.240 roles and

00:52:14.180 expectations

00:52:14.720 that society

00:52:15.560 assigns you

00:52:16.520 based on

00:52:16.940 your sex 0.99

00:52:17.840 this is how

00:52:18.620 they're defining

00:52:19.000 it in all

00:52:19.860 these institutions

00:52:20.740 right now

00:52:21.280 so they've

00:52:22.140 been captured

00:52:22.720 and it makes

00:52:24.140 people like me

00:52:25.120 sound like

00:52:25.640 this Alex Jones

00:52:26.540 tin hat

00:52:27.160 because parents

00:52:28.760 say what do I

00:52:29.240 do and I

00:52:29.720 can't say

00:52:30.220 talk to your

00:52:31.360 doctor

00:52:31.720 look up

00:52:33.140 go to the

00:52:33.660 CDC website

00:52:34.380 go to the

00:52:35.260 American

00:52:35.860 psychiatric

00:52:36.760 website

00:52:37.500 because they've

00:52:38.540 all been

00:52:38.800 captured

00:52:39.160 and I

00:52:39.740 sound like

00:52:40.260 I've got

00:52:41.020 this twirler

00:52:41.820 on my

00:52:42.160 head

00:52:42.400 but you

00:52:44.140 can't

00:52:44.540 because they

00:52:44.940 have been

00:52:45.520 captured by

00:52:46.220 this ideology

00:52:46.920 and so I

00:52:48.860 don't know

00:52:49.120 people just

00:52:49.740 have to think

00:52:50.160 for themselves

00:52:50.540 now

00:52:50.840 and that's

00:52:51.080 kind of

00:52:51.300 frightening

00:52:51.540 to be

00:52:51.920 completely

00:52:52.500 abandoned

00:52:52.920 by all

00:52:53.960 the institutions

00:52:54.480 that we're

00:52:54.900 supposed to

00:52:55.400 trust

00:52:56.080 and that

00:52:58.180 means

00:52:59.160 society

00:53:00.100 is in a

00:53:00.960 very

00:53:01.420 dangerous

00:53:01.940 place

00:53:02.460 I mean

00:53:03.800 this is

00:53:04.420 like

00:53:04.620 collapse

00:53:05.700 level

00:53:05.980 I don't

00:53:06.580 see how

00:53:07.060 it can

00:53:07.340 be

00:53:07.640 stopped

00:53:09.220 really

00:53:10.140 because

00:53:10.880 they're

00:53:11.100 captured

00:53:11.540 you can't

00:53:11.920 even get

00:53:12.180 a foot

00:53:12.560 in the

00:53:12.900 door

00:53:13.100 because

00:53:13.300 you just

00:53:13.540 get 0.91

00:53:13.760 kicked

00:53:14.880 out

00:53:15.120 well

00:53:15.400 the UK

00:53:15.880 hopefully

00:53:16.440 is setting

00:53:17.020 some

00:53:17.920 examples

00:53:18.420 that can

00:53:18.860 be used

00:53:19.460 that can

00:53:20.100 give cover

00:53:20.640 perhaps

00:53:21.160 that can

00:53:21.980 encourage

00:53:22.560 certain states

00:53:23.780 at least

00:53:24.300 to start

00:53:24.940 to look

00:53:25.400 at some

00:53:25.680 of these

00:53:25.900 studies

00:53:26.200 you're not

00:53:27.400 persuaded

00:53:28.100 that's

00:53:28.380 going to

00:53:28.580 happen

00:53:28.820 I don't

00:53:30.300 know

00:53:30.520 I mean

00:53:31.000 I've heard

00:53:31.540 people say

00:53:32.120 that the US

00:53:32.940 is particularly 0.99

00:53:33.820 crazy

00:53:34.280 because they

00:53:34.980 have sort

00:53:35.480 of this

00:53:35.800 financial

00:53:36.840 incentives

00:53:37.320 like the

00:53:37.780 healthcare

00:53:38.380 is sort

00:53:38.720 of a

00:53:38.880 free-for-all

00:53:39.480 you know

00:53:40.680 that makes

00:53:41.020 sense

00:53:41.420 of you know

00:53:42.440 if you have

00:53:42.820 a centralized

00:53:43.340 health agency

00:53:44.320 like the

00:53:44.740 in the UK

00:53:45.400 they can

00:53:47.240 be more

00:53:49.100 equipped to

00:53:49.640 sort of

00:53:49.980 push back

00:53:51.080 against these

00:53:51.520 things

00:53:51.840 because they

00:53:52.180 don't have

00:53:52.440 like these

00:53:52.780 independent

00:53:53.460 companies

00:53:53.960 that are

00:53:54.180 competing

00:53:54.460 for this

00:53:54.780 stuff

00:53:55.040 but then

00:53:55.840 you look

00:53:56.100 over at

00:53:56.420 Canada

00:53:56.720 and they

00:53:57.020 have public

00:53:57.540 health

00:53:57.860 too

00:53:58.540 but

00:53:58.800 they're

00:53:59.680 all

00:54:00.040 completely

00:54:00.400 captured

00:54:00.740 because

00:54:01.120 you know

00:54:01.720 their

00:54:02.040 far right

00:54:03.000 is still

00:54:03.360 like to

00:54:04.480 the left

00:54:04.860 in the US

00:54:05.660 so it

00:54:07.140 can go

00:54:07.400 either way

00:54:07.920 you know

00:54:08.280 if your

00:54:08.560 society

00:54:09.680 is like

00:54:10.200 super far

00:54:11.140 left on

00:54:11.440 everything

00:54:11.720 and you

00:54:12.080 have a

00:54:12.380 nationalized

00:54:12.940 health care

00:54:13.380 then you're

00:54:14.960 in bad luck

00:54:15.740 if you have

00:54:17.000 a system

00:54:17.460 like in the UK

00:54:18.140 where it's

00:54:18.600 nationalized

00:54:19.260 but they're

00:54:20.180 just a little

00:54:20.600 more I guess

00:54:21.460 reasonable on

00:54:22.380 certain things

00:54:22.860 or there's a

00:54:23.300 little more

00:54:23.600 bipartisan

00:54:24.040 going in there

00:54:24.760 that can

00:54:26.200 work out

00:54:26.540 well

00:54:26.840 the US

00:54:27.840 it could go

00:54:28.300 either way

00:54:28.640 depending on

00:54:29.140 where the

00:54:29.380 money is

00:54:29.780 so

00:54:30.060 yeah

00:54:31.620 it could also

00:54:32.560 be

00:54:32.920 Colin

00:54:33.300 like in the

00:54:33.900 US

00:54:34.120 you just

00:54:34.500 need some

00:54:34.860 angry 1.00

00:54:35.100 lesbians 0.99

00:54:35.560 on it

00:54:35.880 yeah

00:54:36.620 I mean

00:54:37.220 those

00:54:37.520 they've been

00:54:38.300 doing a lot

00:54:39.180 of stuff

00:54:39.500 in the UK

00:54:39.880 they're

00:54:40.500 incredibly

00:54:41.220 organized

00:54:41.760 in turf

00:54:42.400 islands

00:54:42.720 sorry

00:54:43.040 that was

00:54:43.480 a cheap

00:54:44.360 joke

00:54:44.680 but

00:54:45.020 we're being

00:54:47.420 flippant

00:54:47.840 but it's

00:54:48.200 true

00:54:48.520 a lot

00:54:49.460 of lesbians

00:54:50.060 have been

00:54:50.380 at the

00:54:50.660 forefront

00:54:51.020 of this

00:54:51.420 pushing back

00:54:52.140 because they

00:54:52.680 know that

00:54:53.200 they would

00:54:53.520 have been

00:54:53.820 that kid

00:54:54.380 who was

00:54:55.140 probably

00:54:55.900 very tomboyish

00:54:56.860 as a girl

00:54:57.800 they would

00:54:58.900 have been

00:54:59.280 targeted by

00:55:00.040 gender ideology

00:55:00.820 from a very

00:55:02.040 young age

00:55:02.580 and told that

00:55:03.300 they were

00:55:03.560 probably a boy

00:55:04.200 because of

00:55:04.680 their more

00:55:05.080 masculine

00:55:05.560 preferences

00:55:07.040 and behaviors

00:55:07.740 and Colin

00:55:08.500 how much of

00:55:09.220 this do you

00:55:09.640 think is about

00:55:10.120 technology

00:55:10.720 you know

00:55:11.040 we were just

00:55:11.500 on Joe Rogan

00:55:12.160 show and this

00:55:12.580 is one of the

00:55:13.020 things we were

00:55:13.460 discussing

00:55:13.840 because I

00:55:14.420 have a feeling

00:55:15.180 that of course

00:55:16.220 ideology is

00:55:16.920 important

00:55:17.400 and a very

00:55:18.140 powerful tool

00:55:19.020 but how

00:55:20.820 much of

00:55:21.200 this is to

00:55:21.700 do with

00:55:22.080 the fact

00:55:22.520 that we

00:55:22.840 are now

00:55:23.220 approaching

00:55:23.780 the stage

00:55:24.940 where we

00:55:25.280 have drugs

00:55:25.940 that sort

00:55:26.540 of can

00:55:27.080 sort of

00:55:27.900 block

00:55:28.260 puberty

00:55:28.780 and we

00:55:29.320 have surgeries

00:55:30.520 that we

00:55:30.940 can now

00:55:31.300 do that

00:55:31.700 can sort

00:55:32.200 of imitate

00:55:32.840 the genitals 0.88

00:55:33.640 of the 0.83

00:55:33.960 opposite

00:55:34.260 sex

00:55:34.680 how much 0.93

00:55:35.520 do you

00:55:35.700 think this

00:55:36.060 has been

00:55:36.400 enabled by

00:55:37.160 the creation

00:55:37.780 of new

00:55:38.360 technology

00:55:38.820 yeah I

00:55:40.640 mean those

00:55:41.020 are those

00:55:41.740 are things

00:55:42.220 that I

00:55:43.660 mean they're

00:55:43.920 big innovations

00:55:46.080 I suppose

00:55:46.820 if you want

00:55:47.300 to call them

00:55:47.680 that

00:55:47.860 I think

00:55:49.980 you know

00:55:51.160 I'm all for

00:55:52.020 people to

00:55:53.100 choose whatever

00:55:54.260 pathway if you

00:55:55.060 want to have

00:55:55.720 a vaginoplasty

00:55:57.800 and have it

00:55:58.520 make look or

00:55:59.180 I guess they

00:55:59.660 would call that

00:56:00.000 a phalloplasty

00:56:00.640 and have it

00:56:01.060 make it look 0.99

00:56:01.480 like a penis 0.99

00:56:02.100 you know if 1.00

00:56:03.920 you're over

00:56:04.920 18 and this

00:56:05.760 is something

00:56:06.140 you want to

00:56:06.580 do I mean

00:56:07.460 maybe even

00:56:07.840 not then

00:56:08.220 because you

00:56:08.660 you know you

00:56:09.020 still should

00:56:09.380 have doctors

00:56:09.920 that are

00:56:10.380 not just

00:56:11.160 saying like

00:56:11.660 whatever you

00:56:12.140 want to do

00:56:12.540 but if we

00:56:12.900 want to

00:56:13.140 treat it

00:56:13.500 the same

00:56:13.920 way we

00:56:14.180 treat like

00:56:14.560 breast implants

00:56:15.380 or something

00:56:15.800 where you

00:56:16.660 know you

00:56:16.820 can do

00:56:17.220 these elective

00:56:17.840 surgeries

00:56:18.280 I think

00:56:19.200 maybe some

00:56:19.600 people should

00:56:20.000 be allowed

00:56:20.280 to do that

00:56:20.820 really it

00:56:22.980 comes down

00:56:23.400 to whether

00:56:24.700 children can

00:56:25.320 consent to

00:56:25.780 those

00:56:25.960 yes

00:56:26.320 and you

00:56:27.140 know they'll

00:56:27.400 say something

00:56:28.000 like you

00:56:29.200 know well

00:56:29.480 some kids

00:56:30.160 would benefit

00:56:30.680 from having

00:56:31.460 their puberty

00:56:31.940 blocked

00:56:32.340 because you

00:56:33.420 know people

00:56:33.820 like you

00:56:34.840 know there's

00:56:35.200 a lot of

00:56:35.460 trans women

00:56:35.900 who've went

00:56:36.760 through male

00:56:37.080 puberty

00:56:37.420 and I'm sure

00:56:37.840 that they

00:56:38.280 would have

00:56:38.560 appreciated

00:56:39.080 not having

00:56:40.240 these secondary

00:56:40.880 sexual

00:56:41.540 characteristics

00:56:42.080 that are

00:56:42.360 hard to

00:56:42.700 reverse

00:56:43.080 so they

00:56:43.920 would pass

00:56:45.400 better

00:56:45.700 like yeah

00:56:46.380 they would

00:56:46.660 probably be

00:56:47.420 happier

00:56:47.760 but the

00:56:48.020 thing is

00:56:48.460 how can

00:56:49.780 you tell

00:56:50.240 which kid

00:56:51.320 is gonna

00:56:52.540 grow up

00:56:53.000 and be

00:56:54.300 grow up

00:56:54.880 to still

00:56:55.160 be trans

00:56:55.680 and how

00:56:56.500 many kids

00:56:56.900 are we

00:56:57.120 willing to

00:56:57.980 incorrectly

00:56:58.600 put on

00:56:59.080 puberty

00:56:59.340 blockers

00:56:59.840 and transition

00:57:00.420 you know

00:57:01.640 what's the

00:57:02.020 sort of the

00:57:02.440 type one

00:57:02.960 error

00:57:03.520 the false

00:57:04.000 positive rate

00:57:05.480 that we're

00:57:05.720 willing to

00:57:06.120 deal with

00:57:06.520 I think

00:57:07.420 just because

00:57:07.940 some kids

00:57:08.500 might theoretically

00:57:09.480 be happier

00:57:10.740 when they

00:57:11.560 grow up

00:57:11.880 I mean

00:57:13.120 some kids

00:57:13.840 who have

00:57:14.200 body dysmorphia

00:57:14.960 might be

00:57:15.360 happier if you 0.95

00:57:15.940 chopped a leg

00:57:16.460 off you know

00:57:17.000 maybe there's a

00:57:18.220 kid out there

00:57:18.640 who would think

00:57:19.000 that

00:57:19.240 do I think

00:57:19.840 that means

00:57:20.180 we need to

00:57:20.560 like find

00:57:21.420 that kid

00:57:21.900 who would be

00:57:22.260 really happy

00:57:22.840 with their legs 0.96

00:57:23.520 chopped off 0.98

00:57:24.060 and then

00:57:24.760 how many kids

00:57:25.320 are we gonna

00:57:25.680 be happy

00:57:26.620 with you know

00:57:27.520 chopping their 0.99

00:57:28.000 legs off 0.91

00:57:28.360 to save

00:57:28.740 those kids

00:57:29.640 who would have

00:57:30.040 been happy

00:57:30.480 as adults

00:57:30.940 being legless

00:57:31.640 you know

00:57:32.220 I think

00:57:32.440 we can

00:57:32.720 step back

00:57:33.340 and say

00:57:33.720 you know

00:57:35.060 some kids

00:57:35.840 are gonna

00:57:36.640 probably just

00:57:37.160 have to be

00:57:37.900 unhappy

00:57:38.400 as adults

00:57:39.560 and wish

00:57:39.920 that they

00:57:40.200 had gotten

00:57:40.540 these things

00:57:40.900 I don't think

00:57:41.340 that is

00:57:41.740 necessarily

00:57:42.740 means we

00:57:43.180 need to do

00:57:43.580 everything we

00:57:43.960 can to find

00:57:44.500 those people

00:57:44.920 if it means

00:57:45.420 that there's

00:57:46.140 gonna be

00:57:46.380 some bycatch

00:57:47.080 where other

00:57:47.580 kids are

00:57:47.920 gonna be

00:57:48.300 incorrectly

00:57:49.340 transitioned

00:57:50.300 and it's

00:57:51.880 such a good

00:57:52.320 point Colin

00:57:52.900 because it

00:57:53.740 just seems

00:57:54.300 that more

00:57:54.840 and more

00:57:55.140 young girls

00:57:55.900 are identifying

00:57:56.820 with this

00:57:58.220 particular

00:57:58.700 ideology

00:57:59.360 whereas when

00:58:00.000 I was a

00:58:00.600 teacher

00:58:00.920 when I was

00:58:02.780 teaching secondary

00:58:03.460 school 10

00:58:04.020 years ago

00:58:04.560 unfortunately

00:58:05.780 the mental 0.53

00:58:06.240 illness for

00:58:07.100 girls at

00:58:07.580 that time

00:58:08.120 teenage girls

00:58:09.460 was anorexia

00:58:10.560 bulimia

00:58:11.100 but now it

00:58:11.980 seems to have

00:58:12.480 gone to

00:58:13.000 they identify

00:58:14.140 as trans

00:58:14.820 yeah

00:58:15.220 that's

00:58:16.460 I mean

00:58:16.800 largely I think

00:58:17.420 that's because

00:58:18.080 well we've

00:58:19.760 changed the

00:58:20.120 definition of

00:58:20.560 what it means

00:58:20.840 to be trans

00:58:21.400 to encompass

00:58:21.960 just common

00:58:22.560 gender

00:58:22.860 nonconformity

00:58:23.660 when you look

00:58:25.100 at the rates

00:58:26.260 of gender

00:58:26.660 nonconformity

00:58:27.360 in males

00:58:27.700 versus females 0.99

00:58:28.440 females 0.96

00:58:29.620 are more

00:58:30.760 gender

00:58:31.040 nonconforming

00:58:31.560 on average

00:58:32.000 than males

00:58:32.480 are

00:58:32.760 so we talk

00:58:33.600 about this

00:58:34.320 dramatic rise

00:58:35.840 in the number

00:58:36.400 of kids

00:58:36.780 who are

00:58:37.000 identifying

00:58:37.360 as trans

00:58:37.880 and we also

00:58:38.840 talk about

00:58:39.400 oh the sex 0.96

00:58:39.900 ratio is also

00:58:40.720 flipped

00:58:40.960 it used to

00:58:41.420 be more

00:58:42.340 boys

00:58:42.720 now it's

00:58:43.120 more females 0.95

00:58:43.700 and people

00:58:44.140 think this is

00:58:44.700 a big mystery

00:58:45.180 well why is it

00:58:45.960 well if you

00:58:46.720 change the

00:58:47.060 definition

00:58:47.400 to gender

00:58:48.020 nonconformity

00:58:48.740 you have more

00:58:49.900 females who are 1.00

00:58:50.480 more likely to be

00:58:51.000 gender

00:58:51.180 nonconforming

00:58:51.740 well that explains

00:58:53.020 the dramatic rise

00:58:54.460 and the sex 0.65

00:58:55.020 ratio flip

00:58:55.700 right there

00:58:57.080 and there we

00:58:57.640 are

00:58:57.880 colin

00:58:58.800 i'm gonna be

00:59:00.440 honest with you

00:59:00.900 man like we

00:59:01.580 have talked this

00:59:02.320 issue to death

00:59:03.360 we really really

00:59:04.560 have but i think

00:59:05.820 the point that we

00:59:06.920 were kind of

00:59:07.980 exploring with you

00:59:08.760 about what this

00:59:09.960 means for science

00:59:10.860 is actually the

00:59:11.940 one you know

00:59:12.980 the kids and the

00:59:14.380 people who are

00:59:14.800 going to be

00:59:15.060 affected by this

00:59:15.720 that's tragic

00:59:16.480 but the consequence

00:59:18.240 for society more

00:59:19.600 broadly is just

00:59:20.920 terrifying to me

00:59:21.740 so and of course

00:59:23.380 then there's the

00:59:23.900 financial stuff

00:59:24.580 that we talked

00:59:25.060 about earlier

00:59:25.540 as well

00:59:25.880 so first of

00:59:26.880 all i hope you

00:59:27.600 continue to do

00:59:28.240 the work that

00:59:28.660 you're doing

00:59:29.060 and everybody

00:59:31.020 should check out

00:59:31.660 your sub stack

00:59:32.240 and support you

00:59:33.220 if they can

00:59:33.680 but i also do

00:59:34.580 hope you pursue

00:59:35.280 the subpoena route

00:59:36.380 and you get a

00:59:37.320 legal situation

00:59:38.280 there because

00:59:39.660 this is this is

00:59:40.700 how it's happened

00:59:41.200 in the uk

00:59:41.660 and it's a lot

00:59:42.840 to put on your

00:59:43.560 shoulders i'm not

00:59:44.140 saying you have

00:59:44.620 to be the guy

00:59:45.080 that does it

00:59:45.620 but that's the

00:59:47.120 way we've seen

00:59:47.780 it happen in

00:59:49.560 the in the uk

00:59:50.280 so i hope there

00:59:51.340 are people who are

00:59:51.920 watching this or

00:59:52.460 perhaps in your

00:59:52.960 position as well

00:59:53.620 who either want

00:59:54.760 to help you

00:59:55.220 or want to

00:59:55.900 pursue that

00:59:56.620 because that is

00:59:57.480 the way that i

00:59:58.360 think this is

00:59:59.280 likely to end

01:00:00.520 anyway thank you

01:00:02.140 for giving us

01:00:02.720 your time

01:00:03.080 thanks for coming

01:00:04.240 on the show

01:00:04.740 as always what

01:00:06.600 is the one thing

01:00:07.340 that we're not

01:00:07.840 talking about

01:00:08.260 because we are

01:00:08.720 talking about

01:00:09.240 this now let's

01:00:09.760 be honest

01:00:10.100 the trans issue

01:00:10.780 we are talking

01:00:11.400 about

01:00:11.720 everybody's

01:00:12.500 talking about

01:00:13.040 it

01:00:13.200 everybody's

01:00:14.040 talking about

01:00:14.500 it what is

01:00:14.940 the one thing

01:00:15.500 we're not

01:00:16.020 talking about

01:00:16.660 as a society

01:00:17.400 that you think

01:00:18.120 we really should

01:00:18.680 be

01:00:18.900 so this is

01:00:20.120 something that

01:00:20.560 some people are

01:00:21.140 talking about

01:00:21.840 but i think it's

01:00:24.240 really an important

01:00:24.940 thing about

01:00:25.560 how we kind of

01:00:27.340 are able to be

01:00:28.060 in the moment

01:00:28.380 we're in right

01:00:29.060 now with

01:00:29.480 regarding trans

01:00:30.160 issues like

01:00:30.640 how did

01:00:31.060 this just blow 0.56

01:00:32.620 up where

01:00:33.140 trans issues

01:00:33.840 were nothing

01:00:34.420 now all of a

01:00:35.560 sudden it's this

01:00:36.360 multi-billion dollar

01:00:37.120 industry how does

01:00:37.780 this occur

01:00:38.360 i think it

01:00:39.820 needs we need to

01:00:40.940 sort of step back

01:00:41.580 and take a look

01:00:42.140 at how how

01:00:42.940 non-profits are

01:00:43.760 structured i mean

01:00:44.340 you look at

01:00:44.860 these places

01:00:45.380 like the human

01:00:45.920 rights campaign

01:00:46.680 like the aclu

01:00:47.900 you can see

01:00:49.260 their messaging

01:00:49.760 when they're

01:00:50.300 when they were

01:00:51.280 trying to fight

01:00:51.780 back against

01:00:52.860 largely conservatives

01:00:54.220 who were against

01:00:54.840 gay marriage

01:00:55.440 gay marriage was 0.80

01:00:56.500 an extremely

01:00:56.920 popular thing

01:00:58.320 i'm very pro

01:00:59.640 gay marriage

01:01:00.180 and so they

01:01:01.680 got tons of

01:01:02.540 funding billions

01:01:03.100 of dollars in

01:01:03.820 these organizations

01:01:04.520 to combat gay 1.00

01:01:05.820 marriage and

01:01:07.160 then what

01:01:07.400 happened

01:01:07.740 2015 i think

01:01:09.500 is what it

01:01:09.820 was it became

01:01:10.880 law of the land

01:01:11.600 they won

01:01:12.500 well what do

01:01:13.880 you do

01:01:14.220 you know

01:01:14.700 most of their

01:01:15.340 money was in

01:01:16.260 these issues

01:01:16.880 and you can

01:01:17.840 look at like

01:01:18.340 just the next

01:01:18.840 year of these

01:01:19.760 organizations

01:01:20.340 of you know

01:01:21.780 how much they

01:01:22.580 were paying for

01:01:23.340 gay rights stuff

01:01:24.260 how much did

01:01:24.880 they use the

01:01:25.400 word gay in 0.61

01:01:26.120 their messaging 0.64

01:01:26.680 and you can

01:01:27.740 see just

01:01:28.200 overnight it

01:01:29.160 flipped where

01:01:30.100 all these

01:01:30.460 billions of

01:01:30.900 dollars because

01:01:31.340 you know they're

01:01:31.600 not just going

01:01:31.980 to shutter their

01:01:32.480 doors you

01:01:33.500 know we won

01:01:34.660 okay you know

01:01:36.220 they have

01:01:36.600 payrolls they

01:01:37.420 have people are

01:01:38.340 making a lot of

01:01:38.780 money off this

01:01:39.260 it's a non-profit

01:01:40.080 maybe at the

01:01:40.680 level of the

01:01:41.940 organization or

01:01:42.680 whatever but

01:01:43.080 people are still

01:01:43.760 making money

01:01:44.180 doing this

01:01:44.660 stuff and so

01:01:46.300 they just shunt

01:01:47.320 all their money

01:01:47.880 into the next

01:01:48.520 issue they have

01:01:49.120 to find they

01:01:50.880 have to create

01:01:51.620 a big issue

01:01:52.680 even if there's

01:01:54.220 none that exist

01:01:55.160 at the time and

01:01:56.240 the issue they

01:01:56.720 have to make they

01:01:57.380 have to justify

01:01:58.680 it being worth all

01:02:00.720 the billions of

01:02:01.300 dollars that they 0.98

01:02:01.800 got for gay 1.00

01:02:02.380 mares or needs 0.99

01:02:02.800 to be just as

01:02:03.460 important as that

01:02:04.260 so that has all

01:02:05.640 been shifted to

01:02:06.420 the whole trans 0.52

01:02:07.400 issue which is

01:02:07.900 why we have this

01:02:08.720 enormous apparatus

01:02:10.920 this organized

01:02:11.620 system that

01:02:13.440 everyone is just

01:02:14.300 scrambling now

01:02:15.340 to recover from

01:02:16.740 I think this is

01:02:18.480 just sort of a

01:02:19.000 natural pathway

01:02:19.800 that a lot of

01:02:20.420 these non-profits

01:02:21.040 take when

01:02:21.660 society is

01:02:22.960 actually improving

01:02:23.940 you know the

01:02:25.000 big wins that

01:02:25.700 you have these

01:02:26.200 cathartic releases

01:02:27.220 that you have

01:02:28.020 are getting

01:02:29.000 smaller and

01:02:29.600 smaller because

01:02:30.160 you sort of

01:02:31.120 asymptotically

01:02:31.900 approach an

01:02:33.040 ideal state

01:02:34.520 and so then

01:02:35.780 it becomes

01:02:36.220 enticing to do

01:02:37.120 like just the

01:02:37.720 opposite

01:02:38.080 well what's

01:02:38.920 the new best

01:02:39.560 idea what's

01:02:40.660 going to give

01:02:40.940 you that

01:02:41.160 cathartic release

01:02:41.920 well let's

01:02:42.960 maybe go back

01:02:43.840 a few notches

01:02:44.440 now and say

01:02:45.080 that you know

01:02:45.860 just the opposite

01:02:46.480 is true 0.89

01:02:46.940 sex is not 0.97

01:02:47.680 real these 0.51

01:02:48.820 are social

01:02:49.180 constructs

01:02:50.020 actually focusing

01:02:50.980 more on race

01:02:51.820 is better than

01:02:53.360 color blindness

01:02:54.460 you know all

01:02:55.420 of a sudden

01:02:55.700 just the opposite

01:02:56.460 of progress

01:02:57.060 becomes enticing

01:02:58.880 and is what

01:02:59.720 these organizations

01:03:00.400 do because you

01:03:01.600 know they need

01:03:02.020 to find something

01:03:02.800 huge to push

01:03:03.500 back on

01:03:03.980 I don't know

01:03:04.800 how we solve

01:03:05.380 it but it

01:03:06.460 is seems like

01:03:07.100 the natural

01:03:07.480 course that a

01:03:08.020 lot of these

01:03:08.300 non-profits

01:03:08.760 take where

01:03:09.240 they just

01:03:09.620 they have to

01:03:10.520 survive somehow

01:03:11.440 they have to

01:03:12.940 find a way to

01:03:13.460 justify these

01:03:15.000 billions of

01:03:15.380 dollars that

01:03:15.780 they're getting

01:03:16.140 and it really

01:03:17.540 just wreaks

01:03:18.340 havoc on society 1.00

01:03:19.520 when they have

01:03:20.480 nothing else to

01:03:21.060 do so they

01:03:21.460 need to make

01:03:21.900 something up

01:03:22.800 it's what they

01:03:23.320 call St

01:03:23.720 Georgian

01:03:24.100 retirement

01:03:24.560 syndrome

01:03:25.060 where he

01:03:25.600 goes around

01:03:26.060 killing snakes

01:03:26.760 instead of

01:03:27.220 having defeated

01:03:27.920 the great

01:03:28.420 dragon

01:03:28.720 anyway

01:03:29.100 Colin thank you

01:03:30.040 so much for

01:03:30.460 coming on

01:03:30.900 I remind

01:03:31.420 everybody where

01:03:32.060 they can follow

01:03:32.580 you and follow

01:03:33.240 your work

01:03:33.720 so you can

01:03:34.740 follow me on

01:03:35.280 Twitter at

01:03:36.020 swipe right

01:03:36.780 that's swipe

01:03:37.440 w-r-i-g-h-t 1.00

01:03:38.960 my sub stack

01:03:40.600 is where I

01:03:41.240 sort of debunk

01:03:41.880 a lot of the

01:03:42.320 sex and gender

01:03:42.940 arguments

01:03:43.460 it's

01:03:44.160 realitieslaststand.com

01:03:46.520 that's pretty much

01:03:48.500 where you can find me

01:03:49.600 alright

01:03:49.820 thanks for

01:03:50.440 hosting us

01:03:51.960 and letting us

01:03:52.840 use the space

01:03:53.320 to record this

01:03:54.100 interview with you

01:03:54.680 and thank you guys

01:03:56.040 for watching and

01:03:56.700 listening

01:03:56.920 we'll see you

01:03:57.400 very soon

01:03:57.900 with another

01:03:58.640 interview like

01:03:59.260 this one

01:03:59.680 or our show

01:04:00.480 all of them

01:04:01.240 go out at

01:04:01.760 7pm UK time

01:04:02.700 and we have

01:04:03.560 also got

01:04:04.400 questions for

01:04:05.200 our locals

01:04:05.900 so come and

01:04:06.640 support us

01:04:07.060 on Locals

01:04:07.600 and you'll be

01:04:08.280 able to ask

01:04:09.020 questions to

01:04:09.640 all our

01:04:10.160 fantastic guests

01:04:11.060 and Colin

01:04:12.160 on our Locals

01:04:14.720 and for those

01:04:15.460 of you who like

01:04:15.740 your trigonometry

01:04:16.320 on the go

01:04:16.940 it's also available

01:04:17.960 as a podcast

01:04:18.800 take care

01:04:19.880 and see you

01:04:20.620 soon guys

01:04:21.260 are other

01:04:23.820 evolutionary

01:04:24.240 biologists

01:04:24.720 like Jerry

01:04:25.420 Coyne

01:04:25.920 PZ Myers

01:04:27.240 and Richard

01:04:27.880 Dawkins

01:04:28.320 coming to

01:04:28.800 your defence

01:04:29.380 or reaching

01:04:29.900 out to you

01:04:30.640 or are you

01:04:31.400 on your own

01:04:32.040 when you're

01:04:32.380 speaking out

01:04:32.860 about this

01:04:33.280 issue

TRIGGERnometry - September 15, 2022

＂PayPal Banned Me for Stating Basic Biology＂ - Colin Wright

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