TRIGGERnometry - PC Culture, Comedy & Our Trans Marriage - Jim & Nikki Norton

00:00:00.880 Guys that preach politics, comics, shut the fuck up. 1.00

00:00:04.460 They use the word platform. 1.00

00:00:06.080 It's just, Tina, shut your face. 0.96

00:00:08.800 I just don't care about the pronoun thing. 0.73

00:00:11.240 If you're not going to call me a she on automatic,

00:00:13.640 then my mission has failed.

00:00:15.660 So, yeah.

00:00:18.100 I think part of the reason people say,

00:00:19.820 what's your preferred pronoun? 0.97

00:00:20.840 How do you want to be referred to so I don't get fucking fired? 0.98

00:00:23.720 I thought I was going to have the surgery, 0.98

00:00:25.700 and me now would never say that.

00:00:27.380 Which I'm so happy that I live in a day and age where I'm not castrated.

00:00:31.640 Me too.

00:00:32.800 Give it some time.

00:00:33.920 That's really what I can tell these trans people.

00:00:35.720 You should give it extra time.

00:00:37.280 Give it 10 years.

00:00:39.500 So, thank you for coming on the show, guys.

00:00:41.780 People say that this is the golden era of comedy.

00:00:45.720 Now, obviously, Nikki, you're a lot younger than Jim.

00:00:48.640 But, Jim, do you agree with that?

00:00:50.060 Is this the golden era of comedy that we're in?

00:00:52.160 I don't know.

00:00:52.680 Everyone thinks that they're in the golden era.

00:00:54.460 Like, everyone thinks this is the time.

00:00:56.840 There's a lot of bad comedy now, too.

00:00:58.920 Like, there's a lot of great comedy and a lot of operas. 0.99

00:01:00.580 But there's also a lot of shit comedy. 0.95

00:01:02.160 So, I don't know if it's any more the golden era than the 70s 0.99

00:01:04.540 with Pryor and Carlin.

00:01:07.120 So, I don't know.

00:01:08.120 Maybe.

00:01:08.900 I'm not a comedian, but I think it's past us.

00:01:11.300 Because now you have to be more careful when you make jokes.

00:01:14.360 Yeah.

00:01:14.860 That's interesting.

00:01:15.880 So, you think that you have to be more careful.

00:01:18.100 Yes.

00:01:18.220 Do you feel that as a trans woman?

00:01:20.680 Yes.

00:01:20.740 Do you feel that?

00:01:21.800 Really?

00:01:22.400 You feel that you have to be more careful?

00:01:24.380 I thought, because being trans, you'd be like, 1.00

00:01:27.520 oh, you know what?

00:01:28.120 You can say, I can say anything.

00:01:29.660 He can't, because he's a straight white man.

00:01:31.620 Yes.

00:01:35.200 Questionable.

00:01:36.360 I feel like I can say the...

00:01:37.860 I don't see gender.

00:01:39.500 Yes.

00:01:39.960 I feel like I can say the F word.

00:01:43.000 You can see...

00:01:43.540 So, you can say the F word, but you can't...

00:01:46.900 I'm trying to work out which F word at this point.

00:01:49.100 The one she calls me.

00:01:50.560 But in terms of comedic jokes,

00:01:53.080 I think you have to be a lot more careful

00:01:54.860 to not come off as, you know, I don't know,

00:01:57.240 like, cancelled, racist.

00:01:59.360 I don't know.

00:02:00.160 Things like that.

00:02:01.520 Do you think that's making comedy better or worse?

00:02:05.080 Well, I think when you mute the language,

00:02:08.400 I think automatically, for me, it gets worse.

00:02:10.760 Because then it's like, I don't know,

00:02:12.560 it's just not as real.

00:02:13.620 And you're kind of watching.

00:02:14.920 It's like watching news.

00:02:16.700 I feel like you're watching everyone be careful.

00:02:19.440 And I don't enjoy that.

00:02:21.060 It's so interesting you mention that,

00:02:22.440 because we talk about...

00:02:23.700 On this show, we talked about that a hell of a lot.

00:02:26.160 Because it's less the case, I think, here in the US.

00:02:28.760 Like, every time we come here, I go to a club.

00:02:30.360 I'm like, if you did that in the UK,

00:02:31.760 you'd probably be arrested, right?

00:02:33.400 But still, there is a culture of sensitivity.

00:02:36.820 And it is quite frustrating

00:02:38.280 to watch people kind of muzzle themselves.

00:02:40.240 It's not real.

00:02:40.960 I mean, the people aren't really sensitive.

00:02:42.100 They're just pretending.

00:02:43.080 It's just watching people act on a play.

00:02:45.260 That's become, like, the new way to get attention.

00:02:48.180 So people are just looking for attention.

00:02:49.240 And also, being Norwegian from Norway,

00:02:51.180 I feel like we don't take things as serious there,

00:02:54.060 at least not as much as America.

00:02:55.940 So when I first came here, I was like,

00:02:57.760 oh, I better watch what I say here.

00:02:59.600 Because people can get really offended.

00:03:02.320 And I feel like it's a little different in Norway,

00:03:04.740 but the whole world is kind of leeching off of the US anyway.

00:03:07.640 So I feel gradually it's probably.

00:03:09.720 Well, I always say, like,

00:03:10.740 whatever America flushes down the toilet, 1.00

00:03:12.640 we get served for breakfast in Europe the next day.

00:03:15.000 So it's starting to feel like that a little bit.

00:03:16.760 It's true.

00:03:18.000 But it's interesting that you say that.

00:03:19.540 So you think Norway is more free

00:03:22.020 when it comes to speech than it is in the UK, than the US?

00:03:25.020 Yes, a little bit, a little bit.

00:03:27.400 But I do also feel like it's getting worse, like it is everywhere.

00:03:30.400 I feel like it's getting worse in Norway.

00:03:32.020 I feel like everyone is, like, watching a play.

00:03:34.800 I watched news and I watched, oh, you're so careful.

00:03:38.060 It's like I can see through it.

00:03:39.820 And it's just not reality to me.

00:03:41.420 It's like you're doing your job and you're just, you know, that's it.

00:03:45.060 Like someone makes a joke and then, okay, now you'll do your job,

00:03:48.060 which is to get angry about it and tweet about it.

00:03:50.180 And now you're doing your part in this whole thing.

00:03:52.380 It's all a charade.

00:03:53.220 It's a charade, yeah.

00:03:54.060 It's none of that, but it hasn't been real forever.

00:03:57.460 It's just more people now.

00:03:58.460 You can see how pretend everybody is.

00:04:00.180 And also in Norway, there have been, like, jokes with blackface

00:04:04.020 and even saying the N-word on PBS without it being, like, banned.

00:04:07.700 So I just think the history is very different,

00:04:10.220 at least in Norway, than what it would be here.

00:04:12.540 I mean, your rap belonged to a song and they have the N-word in it.

00:04:16.200 Being a Norwegian, you wouldn't even think about that. 0.95

00:04:18.820 But here it's like they would kill you and cancel you for that.

00:04:22.800 Well, in the UK, there was a girl whose friend was killed in a car accident.

00:04:28.080 Chelsea Russell is her name.

00:04:29.760 And she shared the lyrics of his favorite song,

00:04:33.840 which happened to be a rap song on her Instagram, had the N-word in it.

00:04:37.200 She was prosecuted and convicted.

00:04:39.540 It's crazy.

00:04:40.280 For what?

00:04:41.020 For hate speech.

00:04:42.040 It's crazy.

00:04:42.720 And then that was eventually overturned on appeal.

00:04:45.100 But that was like, imagine that girl's life.

00:04:46.840 She's, like, 18 years old or something at the time.

00:04:48.420 It's crazy.

00:04:48.820 It's crazy.

00:04:49.360 But the guy who wrote it was not prosecuted.

00:04:51.280 The guy who wrote the song was fined.

00:04:53.400 The radio stations that play it are not prosecuted.

00:04:54.980 It's like with the trans women, too. 0.86

00:04:56.600 They're like, oh, he called me a man.

00:04:58.660 And, like, they can go to court with that as a hate speech crime. 0.93

00:05:01.840 And I'm like, I think that's ridiculous. 0.80

00:05:04.060 I watched his trans girl and he's like, she's deliberately calling me a man. 0.99

00:05:07.380 That is a crime. 1.00

00:05:08.420 And I'm like, hmm, wow, who gives a shit? 1.00

00:05:11.560 I mean, you're trans. 1.00

00:05:12.480 You are what you want to be.

00:05:13.900 Isn't that it?

00:05:15.240 Like, isn't that what we rooted for this whole time?

00:05:17.400 And now we have it.

00:05:18.540 We can legally change whatever we want in the Western world, at least.

00:05:21.360 Yeah, every discourtesy and every act of rudeness doesn't have to be legislated by the government. 1.00

00:05:25.760 And there doesn't have to be a court appearance because somebody is an asshole. 1.00

00:05:28.940 Sometimes people are just assholes and we have to accept the fact that people are assholes. 1.00

00:05:32.300 Do you know, we seem, I think, I guess it's the power of the Internet now where people feel like because words travel further. 0.99

00:05:39.660 Like in the past, a guy in the bar calling you a man, you know, whatever.

00:05:42.800 Now it sort of feels like they're calling you a man to hundreds of thousands of people.

00:05:47.620 Yes.

00:05:47.780 And whether it's true or not, you know, is a side issue. 0.99

00:05:50.060 Like because it's offensive, therefore now we have to legislate being an asshole out of existence. 1.00

00:05:54.940 It's ridiculous. 1.00

00:05:55.960 I mean, they're going to bring this in the court. 0.97

00:05:57.600 I mean, for what?

00:05:58.420 It's so unimportant to me if a random stranger were to call me a man.

00:06:03.680 I mean, I don't know why these girls care or the female to males. 1.00

00:06:11.620 But because the narrative, Nikki, is that you come from an oppressed minority, you know, every.

00:06:19.180 Norwegians.

00:06:19.520 Norwegians, exactly. 1.00

00:06:21.060 When the reality is you raped my ancestors and I want a fucking apology. 1.00

00:06:25.180 Yeah. 1.00

00:06:25.540 You know, but let's move on from that.

00:06:28.740 Now this episode is not demonetized.

00:06:30.580 Yeah, exactly.

00:06:31.440 Even though it's history.

00:06:32.220 But so the narrative is that you need to be protected.

00:06:37.020 You're vulnerable.

00:06:38.080 You're a minority. 0.98

00:06:39.040 Let's protect you.

00:06:40.160 Why do you disagree with that?

00:06:42.040 Just because I feel like 10 years ago when I was a boy and I was starting to find out what it would be like to transition.

00:06:49.300 There was zero information on this.

00:06:51.560 None.

00:06:52.060 I could only find the ladyboys in Thailand online. 0.52

00:06:54.800 So for me to just live this in existence, 10 years, which is a relatively short time, in real life and be married and have a husband, that's really all that matters to me.

00:07:05.960 And I think that's kind of why I don't care about these, like the legislation. 0.76

00:07:10.040 I just think it's ridiculous. 0.65

00:07:11.860 And we're not there yet. 0.82

00:07:13.080 I don't think you should ever be fined for calling anyone a him.

00:07:17.160 And the person who's saying like, yeah, you're an oppressed minority, I have to. 0.98

00:07:22.720 The person doing that is putting themselves normally in a position of being better than or above.

00:07:27.900 It's just kind of condescension.

00:07:30.960 And it's really paternal.

00:07:32.660 And it's something people do.

00:07:34.460 They pretend to check their privilege.

00:07:36.260 But it's a really sneaky way a lot of times people want to hold on to what they have.

00:07:39.840 So they throw breadcrumbs and they act like, we'll scold you for saying this, but nothing is really going to change.

00:07:45.280 It's all fake.

00:07:46.200 It is all fake.

00:07:47.620 And the thing that I find frustrating is it's one thing if people from the particular group of minority go, hey, listen, that's not cool.

00:07:56.060 And let me explain why I think it's not cool.

00:07:59.280 And then you go, OK, I'll listen. 1.00

00:08:01.500 But if it's like an outraged white woman going, hey, you shouldn't say this, you're like, fuck off. 1.00

00:08:06.940 It's nothing to do with you. 0.99

00:08:07.980 I also legally couldn't change my name or gender until 2013, which is not that long ago.

00:08:13.940 So I feel like the world as a whole with this trans stuff has just exploded and it's through the roof. 1.00

00:08:19.060 I feel like all these complaints, I don't care.

00:08:21.900 You're all living your life.

00:08:23.060 You all change your gender. 1.00

00:08:24.340 You're all under the hormones.

00:08:25.640 You can do whatever you want.

00:08:27.320 The rest is unimportant to me.

00:08:28.940 I couldn't care less.

00:08:30.120 That's so true because I think with the trans debate, there's a lot of legitimate conversations about women's sports and other things where I think there's genuine reasons for people to be concerned. 0.98

00:08:39.040 But I've always said this, like most normal trans people just want to be left the fuck alone, just like the rest of them. 1.00

00:08:46.960 Yes. 0.98

00:08:47.500 I've never met one trans person who is, and I know comics, not one who is as sensitive as people are on Twitter.

00:08:53.780 Not one who is a comic.

00:08:55.200 Not one who is just a non-comic.

00:08:57.160 And I've met a lot of trans people.

00:08:58.740 And none of them have been that hypersensitive or lack a sense of humor or been so breakable and fragile as people are on Twitter.

00:09:06.540 And all these comments are like, it's a he, it's a boy.

00:09:09.580 And it's like, it's just noise.

00:09:11.240 It's just, who cares?

00:09:12.820 I find it irritating if they come on our page and do that, but it's not, oh God, don't you? 1.00

00:09:17.120 It's like, fuck you. 1.00

00:09:17.960 I don't care. 1.00

00:09:18.400 You're just being a dick. 0.99

00:09:19.020 You know, you're like going on someone's YouTube channel and just making a statement because your pretend character online is you're the guy who tells it like it is. 0.99

00:09:27.900 But you're not the guy who tells it like it is.

00:09:29.380 You're the guy who has the profile with no real photo who pretends to be the guy who tells it like it is and then goes back to living his life.

00:09:35.280 Do you feel like it made you gay? 0.68

00:09:36.780 What? 0.81

00:09:36.940 Marrying me?

00:09:38.960 Marrying me in the out and open.

00:09:42.240 What were you doing before?

00:09:44.500 I would just ask guys, could you put a dress on, sir?

00:09:46.640 Make me feel less guilty.

00:09:49.480 No, it's not.

00:09:50.980 I'm not gay, but definitely it's not straight. 1.00

00:09:53.640 I mean, there's no way you have a dick in your face and you're straight. 0.99

00:09:55.960 As a guy, if you tell yourself that, I think you're just playing into the 1950s notion that heterosexual is the only right answer. 1.00

00:10:02.060 And every single man who's been with me, it's eventually led to the cock. 1.00

00:10:06.720 So I do believe that's also, I can't be straight if, yes, you have a cock in your mouth. 0.99

00:10:11.900 I don't understand the obsession guys have. 0.99

00:10:14.180 Maybe there's some cases where it is, I just don't understand the obsession people have with making it a hetero activity. 0.99

00:10:20.120 If you're a man and there's a dick in your face, stop it. 0.99

00:10:23.440 Like, what do you need to tell yourself to feel okay about what you're doing? 0.99

00:10:27.460 Why is that, why is the word hetero and straight so important to people? 0.97

00:10:30.700 It's silly.

00:10:31.100 But it also took you a long time, I think, to be out in this public.

00:10:35.200 Only because it took you a while to get in the country.

00:10:36.960 Like, I was comfortable.

00:10:37.920 I've been talking about this stuff, you know, for 20 years on the radio and in stand-up and joking about it.

00:10:42.980 But telling people for 20 years.

00:10:45.080 I mean, uh...

00:10:45.740 What were you saying?

00:10:47.040 Just joking about, you know, at first it started where, like, in 2003, where I would pretend I didn't know.

00:10:52.740 Like, that's, you know, like, oh, I didn't know. 0.99

00:10:54.720 And then I was fuckier and I saw the dick. 1.00

00:10:56.120 I knew. 1.00

00:10:56.580 I mean, of course I knew.

00:10:58.220 But that's your way of just talking about something that doesn't get talked about in 2003.

00:11:02.760 And then as time goes on, you just start to say, like, yeah, I like this girl.

00:11:06.420 She's hot and she's trans. 1.00

00:11:07.700 And all the trans porn stars that would come in to the radio show. 0.98

00:11:10.620 And there were some that I had hooked up with and I would admit hooking up with them. 0.79

00:11:13.860 So it was like anything else.

00:11:14.840 You talk about it more and more and you get more comfortable talking about it as the, you know, as the culture gets more comfortable with it, I guess.

00:11:22.200 I think the issue comes in is when you start to mix sexuality with politics, when things start to be politicized, when people start seeing who they are as the most important thing about them.

00:11:36.580 And then they start to see everything through that lens. 0.97

00:11:39.180 When the reality is, if you're gay and that is the most interesting thing about you or you're black and that's the most interesting thing about you, then you're a boring person. 1.00

00:11:48.440 Like, yeah, if that's the one thing you hang your hat on, is that like, you know, I'm trans or I'm this or I'm that. 0.99

00:11:54.200 But it's like, it doesn't really, as long as we can live our lives the way we want to, I don't, I don't, people can say what the fuck they want. 0.85

00:12:00.620 It doesn't matter.

00:12:01.280 Like, I'm not obsessed with people liking us or accepting.

00:12:04.000 I don't care if people accept it or not.

00:12:05.180 I have to say, though, as far as America punishes people with what you say sometimes, I feel like it's the best place to be trans right now, especially being from Norway.

00:12:15.280 And maybe it's because I feel more exposed being Norwegian in Norway.

00:12:18.960 But I feel like people are much more conservative there.

00:12:22.080 And I've been to like 10 countries.

00:12:23.760 I really feel like America is the most accepting and the most non-caring when it comes to me being me.

00:12:30.360 Well, maybe not in like Alabama.

00:12:31.380 That's what I was going to interject there, Nikki, because I think, I don't know if it's the most accepting.

00:12:36.000 I think it's the most we don't care country.

00:12:38.840 It's like, live your life the way you want.

00:12:40.740 And I think that that's kind of the base basis of this country is how it was built, really.

00:12:45.500 Yes. 0.99

00:12:45.820 So, in the spirit of not giving a fuck, let me ask you, Jim, did you marry a trans woman just so no one would talk about the age gap? 0.99

00:12:54.300 You know, no, because I said I would not marry anybody who was trans if they were closer than 25 years. 1.00

00:12:59.880 That was on the application.

00:13:02.140 If there was any, anybody born before 97 was not even considered. 1.00

00:13:06.440 If you knew who Black Sabbath was, I wouldn't fuck you. 0.99

00:13:09.320 Jim is older than my dad. 1.00

00:13:10.740 I'm 29 years older.

00:13:12.640 It's a huge difference.

00:13:13.880 Yeah.

00:13:14.160 But that, and that at times will be the thing in our relationship that causes us to fight.

00:13:18.320 Her being transgender is never an issue.

00:13:19.880 Like, that's, it's like with most couples who there's a big age difference, life experience and what I want and what her generation thinks, that will sometimes cause an argument.

00:13:28.140 So what, not to start an argument here on set, but like, I'm curious what that generational gap, how does that manifest itself?

00:13:36.460 You know, a lot of times in musical taste, in what we want to do, in the things that we find interesting.

00:13:41.600 Such as, I was saving up with my own money, because I'm doing cameos now, and I was saving up, and he got mad at me because I wanted to save up for a gaming computer. 0.97

00:13:51.060 And I mean, unnecessarily mad, scolding mad, like, you're so stupid, you want to waste that money on a gaming computer? 0.94

00:13:58.560 And I'm like, yeah, I want a gaming computer. 1.00

00:14:01.160 I have one.

00:14:02.160 Yeah. 1.00

00:14:02.360 I didn't say you're so stupid. 1.00

00:14:03.800 Well, I just wasn't happy. 1.00

00:14:05.360 I was like, why aren't you thinking about, like, a sofa?

00:14:07.960 It was almost like, why are you thinking about a computer and not getting a sofa, even though I wouldn't let you pay for it anyway?

00:14:12.840 I wanted that computer.

00:14:13.700 Yeah, it's interesting, but that, I think, goes to the very core of this, which is a generational gap, actually, is far more relevant than a gap than talking about sexuality or gender or race, because that has far more of an impact in our lives, thankfully, than race, gender, and sexuality, because there are people from previous generations who fought, and some of them given their lives, so we can enjoy this. 0.74

00:14:41.800 Yeah, I mean, she's actually an old solo, like, Nikki is not typical of somebody who's 26, you know, like, she likes quiet restaurants, like, I like old man shit, like, a steakhouse that has no vibe at all, just quiet. 0.75

00:14:55.380 I don't like the hot spot, I hate hot spots, I want it to be old, gentle man. 0.94

00:15:01.480 Yeah, like, that we have in common.

00:15:04.180 Yes, really, I'm dating an old man, which is my dream, yes. 0.91

00:15:09.240 Yes, so that being, so that being the case, Jim, how long did it take you to actually come to terms with this?

00:15:16.580 Because we grew up, so I'm 42, how old are you, Jim?

00:15:19.700 55.

00:15:20.360 55, so you grew up, so you're firmly in the Gen X bracket.

00:15:23.840 How long did it take you to kind of accept that you were different when it came to your sexuality?

00:15:29.020 I mean, since I was a kid, I mean, you know, since I was very, very small, I've been doing things with boys and girls, so I knew early, early on, accept is different, you know, as most comics don't like ourselves, or we have some kind of a weird feeling, so I don't know how long it took to accept it, but to acknowledge it and go, well, this is real, I mean, I mean, literally from second or third grade, I was there.

00:15:52.000 And how did your audience react when you first started talking about it?

00:15:55.080 They laughed, I think they knew I was being, because I don't typically appeal to what would be considered now a woke audience, or back then, a PC audience, like, I think I appeal to more, like, you know, kind of, you ever see, like, January 6th?

00:16:08.800 Like, that's a crowd that would probably enjoy me.

00:16:12.940 But they were way more accepting than you think, and they were way more genuine than a lot of my liberal friends, as far as, like, yeah, all right, man, I was, like, they were very, uh, it was a little hard for some fans and some friends of mine, especially once Nicky and I were public, but I think, um, because I wasn't apologizing for it, people realized this is who this person is, and if you don't like it, I truly don't care if people like it, and when you present something like that,

00:16:38.920 there's not much for them to push back on. 0.66

00:16:40.880 Well, it's interesting that you mentioned the woke, not woke reaction, because it, I, look, I, I hate woke shit, I really, truly do, I think that we both do, and part of the reason is, is how much of it is performative fake shit, instead of people saying what they really, I'd rather someone was really, like, saying to me, I don't like what you stand for, but they were genuine about it, than pretend shit because it's the right thing to say, you know what I mean? 0.92

00:17:05.360 I mean, so, can you delve into that a little bit more, like, what, what are the liberal friends that you have saying about it? 0.96

00:17:10.900 Not much, um, and again, and that, and that's fine, I think because we don't come down on that, I can't even say I'm a conservative, I'm absolutely not, because the people I, you detest the most are, are, are Republican, um, like, guys like Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbott, um, but I'm certainly not liberal either, like, so I think because we don't stand 100%, uh, the conservative people I know are much more comfortable with, uh, kind of ambiguity in the politics, as opposed to fucking, the liberal people who know that, I interviewed Trump,

00:17:40.840 and I wasn't a dick to him, and I had a great 40 minute talk about fighting, um, and I didn't sit there and, and, and, and, and virtue signal to him, uh, I just had a great chat, it was a fighting podcast, and they don't like that, that's what, you know what I mean?

00:17:53.360 Like, the fact that I wouldn't have reacted how they think they would react in that situation, um, and I've embraced a lot of the conservative, like, I go on Fox, why?

00:18:02.880 Because Fox has been great to me, they invite me on, they've never once asked me to change my opinion, or try to skew my take on things, CNN wants to have me on, they're more than welcome, but they don't, so you know what I mean?

00:18:13.080 Probably because you did Fox.

00:18:14.380 Maybe, yeah, yeah.

00:18:15.480 Once. 1.00

00:18:16.360 If you do that shit, then a lot of times, I've noticed that liberals are much more likely to be uncomfortable around you than conservatives are, if I do CNN, MSNBC, they don't give a fuck at all. 1.00

00:18:25.980 Oh, yeah, we, we have the same thing, it's like, oh, you interviewed this, yeah, we talk to people, we talk to progressives, we talk to people on the right, you know, that's what human beings do, isn't it? 1.00

00:18:35.400 It's like I was watching The View, or The Talk, or whatever it's called, where Sharon Osbourne got booted, and I, it was just on the TV, and I was just like, ugh, turn off.

00:18:44.040 Yeah.

00:18:44.200 Just can't with these people. 0.88

00:18:45.700 Yeah, it's sickening. 0.86

00:18:46.880 Pretend, pretend, pretend.

00:18:48.760 Yeah, she made this, she committed this sin of defending Piers Morgan, uh, for not liking, you know what I mean? 0.86

00:18:53.820 And it's, it's fucking crazy how it really does just tidal wave on you, and people are so afraid of getting crushed under it, they just go, yeah, yeah, you're right, she's terrible.

00:19:02.760 They're just scared, it's not real.

00:19:04.660 Yeah, they're terrified of their own side, you know?

00:19:07.420 Yes.

00:19:07.880 And it's one thing that I noticed, because we came from the comedy industry, which is hyper-liberal, and particularly in the UK, and one of the things that I noticed when talking to people on the right was a lack of judgment.

00:19:19.540 Was, when I'm talking even to my own friends, I found that I was self-censoring.

00:19:23.820 I can't say that, or I've got to put this in this way, or, and I didn't have that with people on the right.

00:19:28.500 I was, I disagreed, and they went, okay, that's fair.

00:19:31.060 I went, what?

00:19:32.340 I've not had one friend who's on that side of the, that's, that's asked me to go, whoa, hey.

00:19:38.160 I have not been scolded one time by any of my friends or any of the people I know who are, like, I mean, even far-right guys that I'm friendly with.

00:19:47.800 Not one of them has scolded me or said anything shitty about my relationship.

00:19:51.340 Yes.

00:19:51.660 They're all like, oh, it's great, man, you're happy.

00:19:53.220 Like, it's a far more accepting group than, and I hate to break it to liberals, because I know you think you're, like, the compassionate ones, but you've just gotten tremendously ugly.

00:20:01.860 And I want to agree with you.

00:20:02.860 I want to agree with liberals, because they're much more likely to not make us illegal.

00:20:06.320 Yeah.

00:20:07.600 Yes.

00:20:08.260 Well, I was just going to say that I don't, I feel like the liberals are a little bit more pretend than the conservatives.

00:20:14.580 I do feel that way.

00:20:16.600 Yeah.

00:20:17.060 So I was going to say, because I think you guys are where we are, which is, we.

00:20:23.000 Well, let's not go too far.

00:20:26.540 I don't think we're quite there.

00:20:28.620 Just, just for the record.

00:20:30.160 Listen, I look far more like I might transition.

00:20:32.500 Well, you're not wearing a miniskirt.

00:20:33.920 You don't look like that, man.

00:20:34.920 That's what I'm saying.

00:20:35.520 I don't look that good, you know.

00:20:37.060 You might look like a good woman.

00:20:39.240 There you go.

00:20:40.180 I don't know if that's praise or not, but I'll take it.

00:20:42.800 It's the cheap bones.

00:20:44.440 But it's, you know, because I think politically, let's just say that, we are kind of similar in that we, I don't see myself as being on the right.

00:20:54.400 There's things on the right that I agree with and there's things on the left that I agree with.

00:20:58.760 But I look at people on the left and I just feel isolated from them, even though I agree with certain things.

00:21:08.040 And you see, you end up in kind of this middle spot, which I don't know if it's a good or a bad thing, let's talk about it, where you don't see yourself as being with either side.

00:21:16.720 And people make the mistake, I think, of saying that if you're in the middle spot, that it's because you're afraid to take a stand.

00:21:23.520 But it's a lie.

00:21:24.600 It's, they're trying to convince themselves they're brave.

00:21:27.260 And what they're doing is even more cowardly because they're only saying things that will get the applause from people who agree with them already. 0.99

00:21:33.640 Like, they act like they're taking these tough fucking stances. 0.98

00:21:36.820 But it's like, if you're a conservative, it's really easy to always attack liberals and vice versa. 0.99

00:21:41.560 You take zero risk.

00:21:42.780 You're not upsetting the people who are in your group.

00:21:46.100 And more younger people, too, are starting to become political.

00:21:48.660 Like, when I was 15, 16, what happened to being punk and being cool?

00:21:53.920 Now you have to be an activist.

00:21:55.540 And that really is the new punk.

00:21:57.860 That makes me very scared.

00:21:59.340 It's so boring.

00:22:00.600 It's so boring. 1.00

00:22:01.360 Guys that preach politics, comics, shut the fuck up. 1.00

00:22:04.880 Like, you can make a point. 1.00

00:22:06.320 But guys that want to sit up there and teach a lesson, if they use the word platform, it's just, shut your face.

00:22:12.940 It's not, it's, my job is not to educate anybody.

00:22:16.260 If I tell my jokes and I talk about my life and there's something you relate to, that's great.

00:22:20.740 That's what I hope for.

00:22:21.860 That's how I hope.

00:22:22.560 But I get emails from people going, hey, I'm glad you talked about liking transsexuals or having, blowing, whatever it is. 1.00

00:22:28.500 And they say, hey, I'm so glad you talked about that because I related to it and no one talks about it.

00:22:32.240 That makes me feel good.

00:22:33.540 But my job is not to go up there and teach a lesson. 1.00

00:22:35.720 And any comic that thinks it is, you're a fucking idiot. 1.00

00:22:37.740 Well, yeah, you've got to keep those things separate. 1.00

00:22:39.280 So I, for example, stopped doing stand-up precisely when I started giving my opinion about shit because I was like, this doesn't work. 0.95

00:22:45.280 You either do this or you do this. 0.96

00:22:47.300 And if you want to give serious commentary, you can, if people take you seriously.

00:22:51.040 But then you can't also be on stage doing that.

00:22:53.680 That's not the same job.

00:22:55.000 No, but you can do both. 0.99

00:22:56.760 Like Carlin would do interviews and say really smart shit. 1.00

00:22:59.200 Yeah. 0.99

00:22:59.320 But on stage, and he did get a little preachy at the end.

00:23:01.860 But I think by that point, he was such a brilliant guy and his brain was so interesting.

00:23:06.340 Well, like, I don't care.

00:23:06.860 I just want to hear what you think.

00:23:07.880 Yeah.

00:23:08.140 That's why I like to be on.

00:23:09.320 Well, it's kind of like, it's with Trump too, who's Republican.

00:23:13.040 But I watch him.

00:23:14.420 He had a Miss Universe contest once.

00:23:17.320 And this is like 10 years ago, I think.

00:23:19.220 But there was a transgender girl who won and people on their board were trying to get her off.

00:23:23.980 Like, she shouldn't be a winner.

00:23:24.960 She's trans.

00:23:25.580 But Donald Trump actually said, no, she should win.

00:23:28.780 She's a legitimate winner. 1.00

00:23:29.980 And that, at least for me, being transgender made me change at least a little bit of how I saw Trump.

00:23:37.360 Absolutely.

00:23:37.760 So I really enjoy that, to see that from Trump.

00:23:40.980 He would govern in a conservative way, though.

00:23:43.040 But I don't think he personally cares either way.

00:23:44.700 Like, he governed against abortion.

00:23:46.520 But are you going to tell me he's never thrown a model into a limo? 1.00

00:23:49.020 Fucking, come on. 1.00

00:23:50.120 I mean, stop. 1.00

00:23:53.900 Yeah.

00:23:54.340 Yeah, it's because I don't mind, you know, people criticizing Trump.

00:23:58.880 Because let's be honest, there's plenty to criticize.

00:24:01.160 There's a lot to criticize.

00:24:02.620 Yep.

00:24:03.260 I just really don't like it when people make up stuff about him and put forward false criticisms.

00:24:09.620 Because then I go, well, that's not true.

00:24:11.900 And then they go, oh, you're pro-Trump.

00:24:13.200 You're going, no, you're just not being honest.

00:24:16.480 All that's an error.

00:24:18.500 Yeah.

00:24:18.620 Or they have no sense of their own identity.

00:24:20.820 Or they're just obsessed with Trump.

00:24:22.380 They're obsessed with Trump.

00:24:23.440 Like, I won't. 1.00

00:24:24.100 Sometimes I think what he does is ridiculous and stupid and he sucks. 1.00

00:24:26.780 Other times I think, yeah, it was a smart thing. 1.00

00:24:28.520 But if you have a balanced look at it, people are like, how the fuck could you? 1.00

00:24:31.380 And it's like, shut up. 1.00

00:24:32.620 Your identity is boring. 1.00

00:24:34.120 If your whole identity is you're anti-Trump, you're a bore. 1.00

00:24:36.920 You're a boring person. 1.00

00:24:37.760 If your whole identity is based on your politics, you're fucking boring. 1.00

00:24:40.620 It's like, I'm not interested. 1.00

00:24:41.760 I'm not impressed.

00:24:42.660 I don't think it's smart. 0.99

00:24:43.980 I don't think like, fuck, there's a lesson teacher. 1.00

00:24:46.020 It's like, shut your mouth. 1.00

00:24:47.340 Just, we all bat about 500. 0.92

00:24:50.120 I'm right half the time and I'm wrong half the time.

00:24:52.360 Yeah.

00:24:52.780 And it's, you know, when I look at American comedy, that's what I always loved.

00:24:57.220 It was this kind of the, you know, the profane, the outrageous, kind of like Trump.

00:25:03.480 Yeah.

00:25:03.660 Trump is really funny.

00:25:05.560 He's very America.

00:25:06.840 Yeah, he is.

00:25:07.900 Well, he used to say this about him, right?

00:25:09.900 He's what every guy wanted to be and what every woman wanted to be with in America, which

00:25:16.000 says a lot about America.

00:25:17.540 But also, I remember, I think I've told the story on the show before.

00:25:22.220 I remember watching, I think the original Die Hard.

00:25:26.180 Is it the original?

00:25:26.840 Yeah, it is the original Die Hard.

00:25:27.580 The original Die Hard.

00:25:28.480 And this, my wife and I were watching it as a Christmas movie long after Trump had been

00:25:33.080 elected. 0.98

00:25:33.760 By this point, he was evil, racist, you know, all this stuff. 0.62

00:25:36.820 And we're watching this thing and there's a point in the movie where a guy has to come 0.71

00:25:44.040 into like a telephone connection place and say to the woman who's running it, we're going

00:25:48.900 to have to route all the calls for the city of New York through this one exchange.

00:25:53.200 And this is a black woman, which is relevant to the conversation, because she goes, 0.98

00:25:56.720 And I'm going to marry Donald Trump.

00:26:00.000 Like, people forget he was an aspirational figure.

00:26:03.940 He was the reference point for handsome, rich, eligible bachelor.

00:26:07.300 Right.

00:26:07.580 And then he ran for politics and suddenly he became, like, they just changed his persona

00:26:12.680 overnight.

00:26:13.620 Yeah.

00:26:14.120 I wish he texted me, not Jim.

00:26:16.260 So do I.

00:26:18.560 Good Trump is a bite in the pillow.

00:26:20.040 It just speaks to the power, I think, of, like, media narratives about people.

00:26:30.060 They can just make you into whatever they want.

00:26:32.340 That's, exactly. 1.00

00:26:33.320 And that's why anybody, anybody who is a complete, on one side, I just think is a stupid person. 1.00

00:26:39.740 I don't care how smart they sound. 1.00

00:26:41.300 I think it's a fake.

00:26:41.460 How is it in the UK?

00:26:42.640 Is it as split as it is here?

00:26:44.440 So I'm going to give you an example of what's happening in the UK when it comes to what's

00:26:49.940 going on.

00:26:50.980 So in Scotland, they introduced hate speech laws, which criminalizes public performance.

00:26:57.240 And the Edinburgh Festival is the largest arts and comedy festival in the world.

00:27:01.440 So this piece of legislation says that if you perform something which is deemed to be

00:27:07.820 hateful, then you can be prosecuted.

00:27:10.780 And so, and their definition of what is hateful is something that a reasonable person might

00:27:16.780 find to be hateful.

00:27:17.840 I mean, it's crazy.

00:27:19.300 Trey, up for interpretation, what is a reasonable person?

00:27:22.240 And a reasonable person in one part of Scotland is a lot different than a reasonable person

00:27:25.800 in another part of Scotland.

00:27:27.100 A reasonable person in Alabama feels a lot differently about abortion than a reasonable

00:27:30.840 person in Maine.

00:27:31.720 Right. 0.99

00:27:31.960 So what the fuck is a reasonable person? 0.99

00:27:33.620 Yeah. 0.99

00:27:34.060 It's entirely insane because we all have our touch points about some things.

00:27:39.400 Like, there are some subjects you can make every joke about.

00:27:42.580 You're like, I don't care.

00:27:43.920 But you touch another subject.

00:27:45.300 You go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:27:46.860 My dog got run over. 1.00

00:27:48.400 Fuck you. 1.00

00:27:49.180 Yeah. 1.00

00:27:49.620 Like, we all, it's times change.

00:27:51.200 Like, I had to stop devils advocating for Hitler's speeches. 0.92

00:27:54.240 I mean, all of a sudden.

00:27:56.580 There's certain things that are just obvious.

00:27:58.080 No, mate, you should carry on.

00:27:59.080 You'd sell out college campuses.

00:28:00.540 No problem.

00:28:01.400 Yeah.

00:28:02.180 Go down to Columbia, mate.

00:28:03.640 You get 12 rounds of applause.

00:28:04.960 Isn't it hilarious? 1.00

00:28:05.440 It's just a fucking, what a disaster. 0.99

00:28:07.460 I love it. 1.00

00:28:08.440 I love it because it's like they're fucking up their own graduation and it's like they're 0.88

00:28:12.920 missing their own classes. 0.97

00:28:14.140 Go ahead.

00:28:14.880 I just don't care.

00:28:16.220 It doesn't affect me.

00:28:18.760 I'm not obsessed with it.

00:28:20.060 I just don't want to pay for it.

00:28:20.940 That's why I don't want to pay for people's college education.

00:28:22.820 Right.

00:28:23.080 Yeah.

00:28:23.360 That's why I don't want to pay for it.

00:28:24.180 Right off their student debt with your taxes.

00:28:25.800 I just, that kind of is irritating.

00:28:27.400 Yeah.

00:28:27.680 Yeah.

00:28:27.880 Yeah.

00:28:28.460 It's, do you ever feel that we've entered, like the term clown world is something that I

00:28:33.200 don't really like.

00:28:34.600 I like it because it's accurate.

00:28:35.840 Yeah. 0.78

00:28:36.620 But we are in a clown world, aren't we? 0.62

00:28:39.100 There are times where you just read about something like, I read, you told me yesterday.

00:28:43.840 So we were walking down, walking down the road in New York.

00:28:46.980 I'd had half an edible.

00:28:48.280 I was feeling really nice.

00:28:50.160 It was, we'd had a really great day.

00:28:51.660 We just had a nice dinner.

00:28:52.940 And then you went to me.

00:28:53.900 Oh, by the way, mate, there's a group of people who are storming the Met Gallery and

00:28:58.680 they've broken.

00:28:59.460 The Met Gala.

00:28:59.880 In the Gala.

00:29:00.440 And they've broken through the barriers whilst chanting for an intifada.

00:29:04.540 I'm like, what's going on?

00:29:06.580 Oh, the kids.

00:29:08.360 That's cute.

00:29:09.180 The kids are not all right.

00:29:10.440 They don't know what they're doing.

00:29:11.580 Yeah.

00:29:11.780 They just, they know the word.

00:29:13.160 They have no idea what they're, what it actually, what it would mean or just, they don't understand

00:29:17.580 that a lot of people you think that you're rooting for. 1.00

00:29:20.380 And by that, I mean the political groups that would hate your fucking guts. 1.00

00:29:22.960 They hate your fucking guts. 1.00

00:29:24.240 I don't understand gay people who are really like looking, almost rooting for, rooting 1.00

00:29:29.380 for civilians to not be killed is a lot different than rooting for Hamas or anything like that. 0.96

00:29:34.000 If you're gay or if you're, you know, it's like your life is illegal there. 0.97

00:29:36.620 What are you doing? 0.94

00:29:37.420 Yeah.

00:29:37.700 Well, I, the, the, the whole queers for Palestine phenomenon, it's like they will throw you 1.00

00:29:41.920 off a fucking roof. 1.00

00:29:43.260 Yeah. 1.00

00:29:43.500 Totally agree.

00:29:44.600 It's insane.

00:29:45.160 I had a friend who escaped his, his country in the Middle East and he was still in Islam 1.00

00:29:51.560 and doing this thing.

00:29:52.280 Meanwhile, his whole family abandoned him.

00:29:55.700 And I couldn't comprehend that as being this Norwegian non-religious. 1.00

00:29:59.840 For me, it was weird to see that you're still as religious in your home base. 0.58

00:30:03.260 Meanwhile, you had to go through, through the UN and flee a country and get a new citizenship 0.97

00:30:07.660 just because you're gay. 0.99

00:30:09.900 That's crazy to me. 0.99

00:30:11.360 Yeah.

00:30:11.560 I haven't read my Quran cover to cover, but I'm not sure it's pro-trans.

00:30:15.240 Probably not.

00:30:16.260 Although, did they even address that stuff?

00:30:17.840 They probably didn't in religious texts because it wasn't a thing then.

00:30:20.580 But you know what?

00:30:21.340 I will never, ever travel to a Middle Eastern country. 0.96

00:30:24.640 I won't do it.

00:30:25.360 I mean, for what reason?

00:30:26.860 Dubai, I see many trans girls there, but why would I go when they can legally put me in 1.00

00:30:31.440 jail if they wanted to?

00:30:32.680 I don't want to support that with any pennies that I might have.

00:30:35.960 Yeah. 0.98

00:30:36.160 It sucks too. 0.66

00:30:36.700 Because I always wanted to go see the Burge Tower or any of these things. 0.84

00:30:39.520 But if I can't go there with her, then it's like, I don't want to support it either.

00:30:43.060 I don't want to go to a place where the people disgrace me.

00:30:45.640 I would just rather, you know, it's not.

00:30:47.920 I found it really touching, actually, you on Rogue and Jim talking about how when the

00:30:52.740 COVID restrictions hit, you literally packed your bag in an hour and went to Canada because

00:30:57.420 Nikki couldn't get in the country. 0.98

00:30:58.580 Tell us a little bit about that.

00:31:00.320 Well, I had just gotten, my producer at the time was at the house and he just goes, he

00:31:05.480 goes, hey, they're going to close the Canadian border.

00:31:07.260 It was a Wednesday.

00:31:08.600 And I was like, what do you mean?

00:31:09.420 And he goes, yeah, for the COVID.

00:31:10.820 So I assumed it would be a few weeks, but I just, I couldn't picture not seeing her every

00:31:15.020 other weekend.

00:31:15.440 So I wound up just packing a suitcase and I really was on the road in an hour talking

00:31:20.640 to my manager the whole way up who was calling border patrol saying, hey, I know someone who

00:31:25.540 might be coming through and they're like, send them home.

00:31:27.240 We're not letting anybody in.

00:31:28.380 We're not letting anybody in.

00:31:30.480 But I wound up getting to the border and the woman was, I knew she didn't want it to turn

00:31:35.700 me away, but I'm like, ah, my fiance is up there.

00:31:38.320 She's having a panic attack.

00:31:39.620 And I told her I'll be up there for a couple of weeks.

00:31:41.520 And then she let me through.

00:31:42.800 And I was there for 15 months.

00:31:44.180 It was crazy.

00:31:44.680 I can't believe how long I was out of the States.

00:31:46.860 And you did just show up there.

00:31:48.400 Every morning.

00:31:49.180 Yeah.

00:31:49.320 I would broadcast.

00:31:50.200 But Sirius wasn't allowing people in the office.

00:31:53.000 So we were all at home at that point.

00:31:55.160 But I'm glad we did it.

00:31:56.080 We got to live together for a year and see if it worked under the worst circumstances.

00:32:00.700 I never wanted to live in Canada, but I did for three years.

00:32:04.960 Three years.

00:32:05.740 Yeah.

00:32:05.900 She went to school.

00:32:07.840 Yeah.

00:32:08.280 It was, it's crazy that it worked, but it became a real relationship.

00:32:11.280 Like you can't go through that. 0.99

00:32:12.780 You can survive fucking COVID. 1.00

00:32:14.960 I never lived with a woman before. 1.00

00:32:16.080 In a small apartment.

00:32:16.620 Yeah.

00:32:16.900 One bedroom, small.

00:32:17.780 With this manic old man.

00:32:19.200 Yeah.

00:32:19.540 No, it was, it was, it was, I, I, yeah, we were in limbo.

00:32:24.220 Because I just wanted to be in the States and live our real lives.

00:32:26.820 So being in Canada, you know, waiting to come apart, overcome a pot charge.

00:32:32.440 Yeah.

00:32:32.660 The not knowing if she'd ever get in.

00:32:35.560 I really believed she wouldn't.

00:32:37.540 And then I'm like, what do I do?

00:32:38.540 Like, I can't, I'll hate the United States.

00:32:40.040 I'll have to leave.

00:32:41.180 I couldn't imagine what I would do with my life if she didn't get in.

00:32:43.460 Just because it took me five years to get in for a $100 pot charge.

00:32:48.180 Basically just smoking weed once.

00:32:50.140 Yeah.

00:32:50.320 Oh, really?

00:32:51.100 And where was it?

00:32:52.580 In Norway when I was 18.

00:32:54.360 And so they were that strict.

00:32:55.840 You should have just come through the southern border.

00:32:57.460 I know.

00:32:57.500 Yes.

00:32:58.060 You would have been fine.

00:32:59.100 They just sent a summons by mail when I was a police thing.

00:33:02.820 And my mom just paid it. 0.97

00:33:04.380 And $100 came on my record.

00:33:06.240 And the guy goes, you need a waiver.

00:33:07.640 And that's a nightmare.

00:33:08.760 It was a nightmare.

00:33:09.120 Because you have to go with federal drug conviction.

00:33:11.020 And now in many states in the US, you can buy weed legally.

00:33:13.860 Yeah.

00:33:14.160 Here?

00:33:14.320 It's not federally legal.

00:33:15.420 So it still affects immigration.

00:33:16.620 Right.

00:33:16.940 If it's federally legal.

00:33:18.340 But right now, even if you're here, like legally, totally, be careful about saying if you 0.98

00:33:23.220 smoke pot, because they can still fuck you with it, because federally, it's still a problem. 0.98

00:33:26.260 Yeah, we don't smoke pot. 1.00

00:33:27.720 No, no, no.

00:33:28.340 Nobody I know does either.

00:33:31.500 So when the COVID came, and obviously you went to Canada, there were a lot of people.

00:33:36.760 You saw this shift from comedians in California and New York, and the other blue states as

00:33:43.280 well, but mainly from New York and California, wake up and go, I need to get out.

00:33:48.300 If you think about Segura, Rogan, et cetera, et cetera.

00:33:51.160 How come you didn't want to do that?

00:33:54.160 I don't have the same tax concerns that Rogan and Segura have.

00:33:58.320 I think that Austin, for them, besides the fact that there's a lot more freedom there,

00:34:01.920 also gives great, it's a much different tax because there's no state tax.

00:34:06.940 So you keep a lot more of your money there.

00:34:09.220 And I think that they were probably just both sick and tired.

00:34:12.040 Joe's a gun guy.

00:34:13.000 He likes to go hunting and stuff.

00:34:14.580 I imagine there's a lot of things that just got to him there.

00:34:18.240 The crime was going up.

00:34:19.700 You know what I mean?

00:34:20.280 I do, but I have to say, Jim, from speaking to Joe, we've been on his show a few times,

00:34:24.700 and you've been on it loads as well.

00:34:26.080 I think the COVID restrictions really pissed me off.

00:34:29.000 Maybe that was the final straw.

00:34:30.020 You really pissed him off.

00:34:31.020 Yeah, yeah, I'm sure.

00:34:31.840 Were you as concerned about it with the stuff that was happening here, or was it more of

00:34:36.160 just like you wanted to?

00:34:36.820 I only cared about her getting it.

00:34:38.020 I was in such a rage that we couldn't do anything, that the embassies were closed.

00:34:42.520 Well, in Canada, it was crazy.

00:34:43.800 It was crazy. 0.85

00:34:44.620 Canada was insane.

00:34:45.840 Everything was completely shut down.

00:34:46.500 You couldn't even go to a restaurant.

00:34:47.680 You needed to get the vaccine.

00:34:49.400 I mean, you were not even arrested, almost, if you didn't get vaccinated.

00:34:53.000 Eight o'clock curfews.

00:34:54.680 Eight o'clock curfews.

00:34:55.480 Eight o'clock, yeah.

00:34:55.600 Eight o'clock.

00:34:56.140 Yeah.

00:34:56.360 So we live right behind the bell center.

00:34:58.420 Whereabouts in Canada was this?

00:34:59.600 We were in Montreal, and the building was called Rocket Bell.

00:35:01.780 It was right by the bell center.

00:35:03.120 And these people all speak French.

00:35:04.760 Even the guy in my lobby, but he knows that I don't speak French.

00:35:07.860 And he's like, bonjour. 1.00

00:35:09.080 And I'm like, oh, fuck you. 1.00

00:35:10.340 I hate French. 1.00

00:35:11.800 I can't stand it.

00:35:13.420 And I know they speak English well.

00:35:15.920 You should come to England. 0.99

00:35:16.940 You would be accepted.

00:35:17.880 I hope so.

00:35:18.680 Bonjour. 1.00

00:35:19.260 Fuck you. 1.00

00:35:19.700 I still remember his face. 1.00

00:35:21.420 I hate him.

00:35:23.120 I'm curious as well.

00:35:24.240 We were talking, obviously, about liberal and conservative.

00:35:26.540 What I found really annoying about the whole COVID situation is the most liberal places

00:35:32.020 became the most like, you will wear the mask.

00:35:34.680 Do you know what I mean?

00:35:35.280 Like, it was a complete flip.

00:35:38.220 Yeah, it was.

00:35:39.360 And it became the most restrict.

00:35:40.940 I wanted people to get vaccinated, but I just wanted everything to be over.

00:35:44.600 I didn't care.

00:35:45.940 It wasn't for me a statement or politics.

00:35:47.980 I just wanted this whole thing to be over so she and I could continue and she could get 0.99

00:35:52.420 in the fucking country. 0.99

00:35:53.360 Like, you know what I mean? 1.00

00:35:53.900 The whole COVID thing was-

00:35:55.120 Oh, yeah, because it backed up the embassies too.

00:35:56.180 Like, by years.

00:35:57.800 It would be crazy.

00:35:58.480 They're slow as it is.

00:35:59.760 And we knew we had to go through Homeland Security.

00:36:01.880 And they only used to post office.

00:36:03.400 They're the worst.

00:36:04.100 The US government literally operates like it's 1947.

00:36:07.740 The way they- everything is slow.

00:36:09.580 Everything is a hard copy through.

00:36:11.180 There's no just-

00:36:11.880 You should come to the UK, mate. 0.84

00:36:13.260 You're going to find out this is pretty-

00:36:15.800 I think I would love Scotland.

00:36:17.640 It's very similar to Norway.

00:36:19.780 Yeah, until you make a joke and then you get put in prison.

00:36:22.560 Oh, no.

00:36:22.940 And also, you haven't seen the weather.

00:36:24.380 Yeah.

00:36:24.980 It's rainy, right?

00:36:25.800 Yeah, it's diabolical.

00:36:29.040 But to me, that was one of the things that really changed the way that I viewed the world.

00:36:34.980 Because when the restrictions came in, and when I saw friends that I would classify as liberal,

00:36:39.900 for want of a better way of putting it, and they were like, yeah, let's shut more down.

00:36:44.420 Let's introduce more curfews. 1.00

00:36:45.980 Yeah. 0.99

00:36:46.200 If you don't take the vaccine, maybe we should castrate you. 1.00

00:36:48.820 And you're just going, what the hell is going on? 0.99

00:36:51.580 And actually, if you had told me a few years ago that I was going to want to move to Texas and to do the show from Texas, 0.99

00:37:00.800 I'd look at you like you were mental. 0.84

00:37:03.060 But now I'm like, well-

00:37:04.480 Well, in the middle of the pandemic, we literally sat down with our producer and we were like,

00:37:08.000 if they do this next thing, we have to leave.

00:37:11.620 You know, that's how bad it was getting.

00:37:13.240 Yeah, it's crazy.

00:37:14.740 And I wish I didn't hate Greg Abbott and Ron DeSantis.

00:37:18.160 I wish I didn't hate these governors for their social stuff so much, for their obsession with trans people and sexuality.

00:37:25.380 You know, I just, I wish I didn't hate them so much because I like that about those states. 0.99

00:37:29.000 But they are just as crazy, though. 0.89

00:37:30.420 I mean, I'm against having drag queens in school. 1.00

00:37:32.920 So I do, there's crazies from both sides, too.

00:37:35.760 I don't care about that as long as they're not sexual.

00:37:37.640 I do.

00:37:38.100 If it's some campy drag queens society. 1.00

00:37:40.200 Let Nikki talk a little bit. 1.00

00:37:41.460 I just think it's completely unnecessary.

00:37:44.020 I mean, if you're going to have even laughs in school, why does it have to be from a drag queen? 1.00

00:37:48.800 I don't get it.

00:37:49.460 And why would you push to have this drag queen? 1.00

00:37:50.760 And a lot of them are sexualized, by the way.

00:37:53.160 That's a problem.

00:37:53.760 Most of them are, in my opinion.

00:37:55.560 I mean, you're caked up with makeup in a thong underneath. 1.00

00:37:59.720 I don't need to see all that.

00:38:01.520 Well, I'll give you an example.

00:38:03.300 Let's say you walked in to teach a class looking the way you do.

00:38:06.660 Oh.

00:38:07.080 That would be inappropriate, right?

00:38:08.200 We'd all agree with that.

00:38:08.980 In this dress?

00:38:10.140 Yeah.

00:38:10.360 A hundred and ten percent.

00:38:11.860 I disagree.

00:38:12.920 It would be because everybody would pay attention.

00:38:15.320 It would be terrible.

00:38:18.140 And I don't think that these drag queens should be in school. 1.00

00:38:22.140 I don't get it.

00:38:22.960 Why?

00:38:23.480 If they're dressed really sexually or anything like that, yeah, of course.

00:38:27.260 But that's any person. 0.57

00:38:28.720 But as far as just being a drag queen and being campy and silly, I don't think there's anything 1.00

00:38:34.040 wrong with somebody who is being over the top campy as long as they're not being sexual. 0.95

00:38:39.220 So I just connect them to nightclub mentality.

00:38:41.220 I don't care if you're just a summer drag queen or whatever out in a parade. 1.00

00:38:46.440 I just, I don't think they should be in school at all.

00:38:48.760 I don't get that.

00:38:49.540 That's just me.

00:38:50.400 I don't get it.

00:38:50.900 I have to say I side with you on that argument.

00:38:53.020 Yeah, I don't get it at all.

00:38:53.780 Generally, and it's good to hear you say it because when I say it, I sound like a bigot

00:38:57.300 whereas you can get away with it.

00:38:58.840 No, but I mean, it makes perfect sense.

00:39:00.800 I never had drag queens in my Norwegian lecture teaching history. 1.00

00:39:04.860 I mean, there was no drag queens. 1.00

00:39:06.820 But if they have it where, like, instead of saying drag queens shouldn't be there, how

00:39:10.500 about any person who's behaving or dressed in a sexual manner?

00:39:13.800 There's a big difference between a campy drag queen. 1.00

00:39:16.620 But why do you need a drag queen? 1.00

00:39:18.820 You don't, but I'm saying why do you need a Boy Scout master? 0.86

00:39:21.880 Why do you need a clown?

00:39:22.720 Why do you need any other person?

00:39:24.740 Why do you need a fireman?

00:39:26.880 Why do you need any person to come in?

00:39:28.520 I was raised with no costumes, no clowns. 0.99

00:39:30.720 We just had fucking school. 1.00

00:39:32.360 Norwegians are very stiff. 1.00

00:39:33.460 I don't understand what's going on with these costumes and tiger ears.

00:39:38.840 What?

00:39:39.220 No.

00:39:39.660 No, but see, Vicky, I totally agree with you.

00:39:41.900 And also, you know, I'm keen to explore why DeSantis and Abbott, what your issues with

00:39:46.520 them specifically are.

00:39:47.360 Because we have had people on the show to talk about some, people say they're banning

00:39:52.580 books, right?

00:39:53.560 They're not banning books.

00:39:54.580 They're removing books from schools.

00:39:56.660 It's not the same as banning a book, which are very heavily sexualized as well.

00:40:01.440 I don't have a problem with that, personally.

00:40:04.660 Do you see what I'm saying?

00:40:05.720 Yes.

00:40:06.320 Some of the, didn't some of the books, and I don't know all the time, didn't some,

00:40:09.440 weren't there some ones that got caught?

00:40:11.380 I mean, liberals wanted to take off Huck Finn because, the N-words, you know, so every 0.98

00:40:15.860 group is, again, they're all the same people.

00:40:18.120 They've had plenty of things that they wanted to remove.

00:40:20.120 And they want to take down 200-year-old statues.

00:40:22.580 I just, I don't care about anything.

00:40:23.620 You know what?

00:40:24.300 I don't mind that. 1.00

00:40:25.020 Fuck statues. 1.00

00:40:25.660 I'm sick and tired. 1.00

00:40:27.400 What's your problem with statues?

00:40:28.380 I don't care about them either way.

00:40:30.040 They're not relevant to me. 0.99

00:40:31.240 I don't care about some Civil War asshole who is fighting for slavery. 0.98

00:40:35.340 It's not that the statue offends me, but I don't care about it. 1.00

00:40:38.280 It doesn't mean anything to me, and anyone whose identity is tied into a statue is a fucking idiot. 1.00

00:40:44.080 I just don't care if the statue is 200 years old. 1.00

00:40:46.900 You're just finding something to complain about.

00:40:49.520 I just really don't care.

00:40:51.000 It's like we have Nazi bunkers in Norway.

00:40:53.060 What, are you going to bomb those?

00:40:54.700 No, people go and look at them and stand inside.

00:40:58.700 Yes.

00:41:00.800 Practice shooting.

00:41:02.620 Wear the cap.

00:41:04.000 You know, what's wrong with that?

00:41:05.000 Close your eyes.

00:41:06.000 Think of a better world, you know.

00:41:08.280 But it's interesting that you say that because, again, this is one of the things that we do.

00:41:16.160 We go, oh, this person is trans.

00:41:18.160 They think this way. 0.93

00:41:19.020 This person is black. 0.95

00:41:20.100 They think this way. 0.55

00:41:20.840 And you go, well, maybe everybody's an individual, and they all think their own way.

00:41:25.580 Yes.

00:41:26.200 Meanwhile, I say what I say about drag queens in school, and I'm the conservative.

00:41:29.160 I'm not a conservative.

00:41:30.140 It's crazy.

00:41:30.740 You just don't want sexualized things in school. 0.85

00:41:34.380 I think it's a pretty reasonable position.

00:41:35.520 Or drag queens in school, period. 0.93

00:41:36.120 I don't get it.

00:41:37.620 I don't agree with that, but I do think that anything sexualized shouldn't be.

00:41:40.600 Of course.

00:41:41.160 I mean, anything sexualized shouldn't be.

00:41:42.280 And a lot of trans or gay people will probably resent me for saying that, but my Nordic mind

00:41:48.000 doesn't get it.

00:41:49.200 I don't get it.

00:41:49.620 Yeah.

00:41:50.180 And it's also as well, you know, some things are just not appropriate for school.

00:41:55.960 Yeah.

00:41:56.320 When did this become a controversial thing to say?

00:41:58.000 Francis used to be a teacher.

00:41:59.300 Yeah, exactly.

00:42:00.260 You know.

00:42:00.520 It's a recurring thing.

00:42:01.600 He brings it up every episode.

00:42:02.760 I do.

00:42:03.480 I do.

00:42:03.800 I've still got PTSD from him.

00:42:05.220 And if they're just going to sit there and read a book, can it just be a person?

00:42:08.980 I mean, why?

00:42:09.560 The makeup and the wig doesn't do anything for me.

00:42:13.060 And guys like DeSantis, the reason I don't like him, and there's a lot that he does that

00:42:16.300 I love. 0.99

00:42:16.820 I love that he cracked down on those shit squatters. 1.00

00:42:19.460 There's a lot of things DeSantis has done that I think are fucking great, but I hate 1.00

00:42:23.600 him because like the whole obsession with sexuality and like if you mention homosexuality 0.99

00:42:29.300 or trans people to a kid, there's a way to talk about it where you're not telling anybody

00:42:34.520 you have to be this way.

00:42:35.960 But it also, people say, what good does it do to tell that to a third grader?

00:42:39.020 Because if the kid's gay and he's a third grader and he's being beaten up by people who 1.00

00:42:42.760 hear the word faggot at home, well, maybe now if in school they say, hey, you're human 0.99

00:42:46.600 and it's okay to be this way, A, the kid won't get treated as badly, and B, maybe the 0.99

00:42:51.580 kid knows, hey, I'm not broken because I feel this way.

00:42:53.960 So there is a way to talk about it where you're not convincing people of anything sexual.

00:42:58.440 Yes.

00:42:58.800 And I think that just wiping that off the table is terrible.

00:43:01.800 May I also say that the other side too is pushing for very young people to do sexual

00:43:07.240 reassignment surgeries and these are the gay groups that do these, these actual funded

00:43:13.820 by government, gay, right groups, they will go on about as a group and support that nine

00:43:20.520 and 10 and 11 year olds can get that surgery with their parents' signature.

00:43:26.100 And listening to that, I'm like, what? 0.99

00:43:28.380 Like, that's fucking insane. 0.95

00:43:30.560 That's way different. 1.00

00:43:31.800 Insane.

00:43:32.720 That's different than talking.

00:43:33.760 I think that's why people like Ron DeSantis probably says these things.

00:43:38.080 No, it's not.

00:43:38.860 Okay, well.

00:43:39.580 Ron DeSantis doesn't.

00:43:40.760 I think that's where the anger comes from, though, when it's both from the both sides.

00:43:44.880 No, I will tell you.

00:43:45.900 It's like ping pong.

00:43:46.180 Look at the, sorry, look what the Republicans said. 0.85

00:43:49.940 If you look at the Republican charter in Texas, they don't like gays either.

00:43:53.260 Like, that doesn't come from just a modern, common sense, 10-year-old transition discussion.

00:43:59.660 This comes from a deep down dislike of the entire subject.

00:44:03.140 That's very true.

00:44:04.180 I think what you guys are having the argument about is actually a microcosm of what's happening

00:44:08.760 in broader society.

00:44:10.060 I think your point, Jim, is entirely correct, which is there are some people who've had to

00:44:15.020 kind of keep it quiet for a while where they just don't like sexual minorities.

00:44:20.040 They think it's wrong.

00:44:20.920 They think it's immoral.

00:44:22.280 They don't want anyone to be able to get married if they're not a man and a woman. 0.95

00:44:25.480 And those people have had to keep it quiet for a while because it became unsayable, right?

00:44:31.520 And so now, the other side, Nikki, that you're talking about is this is 100% happening.

00:44:37.760 We have had endless people on the show, like, covering this stuff about sexualization of

00:44:43.000 children. 1.00

00:44:43.420 Like, they're literally showing them porn about anal sex in school. 1.00

00:44:46.780 It's not porn. 0.99

00:44:47.600 It's a book, but it's basically the subject, right?

00:44:49.820 How else are they going to learn?

00:44:50.840 So you've got that going on.

00:44:56.540 You've got, as you say, Nikki, I don't know if they're gay groups, but there are various

00:45:00.780 LGB whatever groups pushing this stuff onto young people.

00:45:05.140 And that's where normal people like us and like you are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is

00:45:08.940 too far.

00:45:09.520 By the way, I don't like it.

00:45:10.100 I'm the only one who's not normal in this group.

00:45:11.820 Well, mate, let's accept you're not normal, given everything.

00:45:14.300 So you've got these two sides on the extremes.

00:45:17.500 And then the overwhelming majority of people in the middle who are like, we're absolutely

00:45:21.720 fine with gay people.

00:45:23.120 We're absolutely fine with trans people being trans. 1.00

00:45:26.380 And we're not for people being drag queen story hour for six year olds, putting fucking 1.00

00:45:32.260 dollar bills in their G strings. 0.99

00:45:34.740 Sure.

00:45:35.200 Right.

00:45:35.540 And we're not in favor of porn in schools and all this other stuff.

00:45:39.200 That's where I would say like 95% of the people are.

00:45:41.800 And then you've got these two retard sides fighting over it, basically. 0.99

00:45:45.420 Yeah, that's true. 0.88

00:45:45.940 Like the Ontario woodshop teacher.

00:45:51.180 That was funny. 0.99

00:45:52.060 Who had the greatest tits I've ever seen. 0.99

00:45:54.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:45:54.720 Magnificent. 1.00

00:45:55.320 But that fucking asshole. 1.00

00:45:57.400 That asshole. 1.00

00:45:58.500 And again, the Canadians had to, they had to do it through the court system because everything 1.00

00:46:03.160 is litigated now.

00:46:04.880 But to, oh no, they're just, it's a glandular condition.

00:46:08.280 The fact that that person got a second chance is like insane to me. 0.99

00:46:14.900 I mean, if you're in front of kids with these H, double H size tits with the nipples showing 1.00

00:46:22.520 through the shirt. 0.99

00:46:23.380 Big nipples. 0.99

00:46:24.060 Yeah. 1.00

00:46:24.400 Then I know, I can't comprehend how the Canadian board gave this maniac a second chance. 1.00

00:46:31.040 Yeah, because it felt like pure fetish shit. 0.99

00:46:34.040 Like, and again, that's all great. 1.00

00:46:35.620 But if you walk into school with giant tits and a miniskirt and you're not, you're not 1.00

00:46:38.880 transgender. 0.99

00:46:39.540 You're just, there's something about doing that in front of, that's, that's different. 1.00

00:46:43.320 That's shit crazy. 0.99

00:46:44.320 Yeah, it's crazy. 1.00

00:46:45.020 And then all of a sudden to go, we thought it was a glandular condition.

00:46:47.440 So you lied.

00:46:48.480 That guy shouldn't get rehired just because he lied about what was going on with him.

00:46:52.260 I just don't care about the pronoun thing.

00:46:54.340 I mean, when I was in Canada and I was applying for a job, they asked me my pronouns.

00:46:57.920 I just, I don't care about that.

00:46:59.260 I mean, I get that they're trying to better it for people like me, but it doesn't make

00:47:03.340 me feel better as much.

00:47:04.660 It makes me feel more dysphoric.

00:47:07.060 How come?

00:47:08.100 Just because then I feel like I have to think about it and I have to prove it to these people.

00:47:12.620 Like, hey, make sure you call me a she or it's going to, it's like in the air. 1.00

00:47:17.220 I hate that.

00:47:18.320 I hate when I have to re-clarify to people, better call me a she. 1.00

00:47:22.940 I think they're doing it.

00:47:23.420 So how do we resolve that?

00:47:24.540 Sorry, Jim, I'm just curious because it's interesting you say that.

00:47:28.100 If I was talking to Jim and I was saying, well, what a Nikki he, like, how would that

00:47:33.220 go down though?

00:47:34.060 Well, I mean, like I could guess I could say that.

00:47:36.300 He probably wouldn't be happy.

00:47:37.220 Please call me a she, but I'm not going to do that.

00:47:39.360 If you're not going to call me a she on automatic, then my mission has failed.

00:47:43.940 So, yeah.

00:47:45.560 I would get annoyed if I felt it was on purpose.

00:47:49.140 There's a difference between making an honest mistake and somebody who's making a statement

00:47:54.300 by misgendering.

00:47:55.940 Like, somebody who's going, so he, and it's like, you know, as a stand-up, you kind of

00:47:59.460 know, you read people, you know what they're doing.

00:48:01.560 But that's where my point came from with the hate crime, where someone said they are deliberately

00:48:05.140 calling me he, although they know I refer myself to a she, and they took them to court,

00:48:09.760 and, you know, I'm just like, no, no.

00:48:11.920 And the pronoun thing just being integrated in society, I don't know.

00:48:15.660 I just think it's kind of shallow.

00:48:17.180 I don't know why, but I do.

00:48:18.880 I think people ask about it also so they don't get in trouble.

00:48:22.100 I think part of the reason people say, what's your preferred pronoun, is because if they

00:48:25.500 make a mistake, we've taught that you're going to get punished now. 0.96

00:48:28.340 So they want to know, how do you want to be referred to so I don't get fucking fired? 0.96

00:48:31.920 I don't like it, but I get it. 0.94

00:48:33.180 Yeah, but I mean, I think that's why they're doing it.

00:48:34.400 Do you not think that the best way to resolve those mistakes, though, is just, like, personal

00:48:38.660 conversation?

00:48:39.420 Oh, yeah?

00:48:39.660 Well, actually, I prefer if you call me...

00:48:41.020 And, by the way, like, some people may say, well, I don't want to do that, because I have

00:48:44.400 certain beliefs about that, so I'm just going to call you Nikki.

00:48:46.800 Yes.

00:48:47.240 That's okay to you, isn't it?

00:48:48.540 Yes, by name.

00:48:49.580 Absolutely.

00:48:50.900 I'm not going to say that word.

00:48:52.140 But, yeah.

00:48:54.000 It does get where some people are just dug in, and they are just doing it. 1.00

00:48:57.680 Like, somebody who works for the state and refused, like, that fucking asshole who refused 1.00

00:49:01.360 to issue gay marriage licenses, and people said she was exercising religious freedom, 1.00

00:49:05.580 even though her religion...

00:49:06.400 Which one?

00:49:06.440 I'm not familiar with this case.

00:49:07.000 I forget her name.

00:49:07.780 She was in Alabama, I think, or Arkansas.

00:49:10.980 That makes sense.

00:49:11.500 I forget.

00:49:12.040 Yeah.

00:49:12.760 And I remember Mike Huckabee went to bat for her, because they thought she was defending

00:49:16.680 a religion, but it's like your religion is interfering with your ability to do your job, so quit 0.97

00:49:21.580 your job, and God will pay your bills.

00:49:23.260 I mean, if you can't do your job because of a religious belief, then you shouldn't be in that

00:49:27.320 job.

00:49:27.960 Yeah, agreed.

00:49:29.120 Nikki, we spoke a little bit about this, where we were talking about child transition,

00:49:33.740 and this is something that I find really interesting, because in the UK, we've had the CAS report,

00:49:40.200 where it's a lot of gender clinics. 1.00

00:49:43.680 It has been shown that they've not been giving kids the required support, and it's actually

00:49:49.840 something that I agree with, said that you shouldn't be giving puberty blockers to kids

00:49:54.500 who are prepubescent and young kids.

00:49:56.980 Where do you stand on this?

00:49:58.780 So I started when I was like 14, 15, and even back then, for me personally, being a teenager

00:50:05.780 at that time, I felt the clock ticking.

00:50:08.240 I'm like, if I get this beard, dysphoria was real to me.

00:50:12.520 I felt it in my heart that the clock was ticking, and I wanted to be on these hormones ASAP.

00:50:18.660 In Norway, however, though, you can't just go to a doctor and get hormones.

00:50:21.680 You've got to be referred by a psychiatrist to the national hospital, and then they have

00:50:26.860 to evaluate you.

00:50:28.120 The most interesting part, you have to live and show it to them one year as the opposite 0.98

00:50:33.480 gender in order for them to even consider you as a valid trans person.

00:50:38.720 I think it's right.

00:50:40.120 I kind of love that they did that.

00:50:41.760 So, I don't know.

00:50:44.400 You've got to have a team of people to evaluate you, I think, an endocrinologist.

00:50:48.900 I don't think you can just be 12 years old and start on hormones by some doctor.

00:50:53.960 I think there should be a team.

00:50:55.780 You don't think a male prisoner should be able to say, I'm a woman now, and get sent

00:50:58.340 to a woman's prison? 1.00

00:50:59.440 No, I've heard that happen.

00:51:00.960 It does.

00:51:01.380 That's really difficult, isn't it?

00:51:03.280 Because we had this case in the UK, we had several cases in the UK, where actually rapists

00:51:08.600 said, well, I'm a woman now.

00:51:10.420 Yeah.

00:51:11.100 And they were put in a women's prison. 1.00

00:51:13.300 Crazy. 0.97

00:51:13.960 But then, and the issue is always difficult because, well, obviously, they shouldn't be 0.98

00:51:18.400 in a women's prison. 1.00

00:51:19.700 But I'm not saying this won't happen to you, but if you were to be convicted of a crime,

00:51:26.100 where should you go?

00:51:27.780 Well, I look at it this way.

00:51:29.080 I have a mental illness diagnosis given to me by the government of Norway.

00:51:36.500 So I believe that it's called transgenderism F.64 or something. 0.99

00:51:42.660 It's an actual mental illness. 0.97

00:51:44.220 And I believe all trans people should have that diagnosis. 0.79

00:51:47.480 I sincerely mean that. 0.96

00:51:48.920 So you think that being transgender is a mental illness? 0.98

00:51:54.180 Yes. 0.99

00:51:55.640 Interesting.

00:51:56.400 Interesting.

00:51:56.920 You're not the first person to have said that, including several trans people on our

00:52:00.540 show.

00:52:01.000 I wouldn't say yes five years ago, being young and whatever, but 110%.

00:52:08.020 So what's changed their mind?

00:52:09.700 Just because you realize that if depression can be a mental illness and classified as that,

00:52:15.400 then how the hell is this not?

00:52:16.780 How is the dysphoria that I felt in my heart at 14 so real to me? 0.91

00:52:22.940 How is that not a mental illness? 0.87

00:52:26.120 How is that not something going on in the brain and in my system?

00:52:29.300 It's 110% something physical.

00:52:31.880 So when you say dysphoria, can you explain?

00:52:34.260 Because there's a lot of people who thankfully have never suffered gender dysphoria.

00:52:38.840 We both know people who have, and it sounds awful.

00:52:42.260 What is that like to have gender dysphoria?

00:52:44.620 Like if your skin feels like a man's skin, if you feel stubble, if the hair is short.

00:52:50.780 Yeah, that would give me real dysphoria.

00:52:53.620 And what does that mean to give you real dysphoria?

00:52:56.300 Because if I, well, I can just tell you I'd rather be dead than live life as a man.

00:53:00.860 I really sincerely mean that.

00:53:02.680 If I was just a man, I would hate that.

00:53:05.220 I don't know how I would operate.

00:53:06.380 I don't know how I would be a man.

00:53:07.860 Yes.

00:53:09.700 Only in Jim's mouth.

00:53:13.000 I don't know.

00:53:14.540 I think that it would be terrible if I lived life as a man. 0.64

00:53:18.540 And ever since I was this young, I walked like this, you know, the gay hand. 0.89

00:53:21.920 Could you say that I was just gay? 0.58

00:53:23.700 Yeah.

00:53:24.160 But then when the dysphoria hit me, it's just, I don't know. 0.96

00:53:27.580 I've been wearing heels since I was five, six.

00:53:29.640 It's definitely something there.

00:53:31.060 And it's not just me.

00:53:32.380 All these other trans people, it's the same thing.

00:53:34.360 So I don't really think I believe that the world really understands it.

00:53:38.780 Even the National Hospital in Norway, I don't think they perfected what this is yet.

00:53:43.400 But as far as their work on me or whatever, I think it's the most reasonable to get evaluated.

00:53:50.060 Well, it's clearly worked with you.

00:53:51.480 And this is kind of one of the issues with this issue being so politicized.

00:53:55.360 Because what's happened is there are people like you for whom it's exactly the right way

00:54:00.320 to go and it works out.

00:54:03.260 But there are also people who kind of get sucked into it because they have some other kind of mental issues.

00:54:08.880 And then they get the surgeries.

00:54:10.260 Right.

00:54:10.520 The bottom surgery.

00:54:11.860 Oh, my God.

00:54:12.500 It's crazy.

00:54:13.140 And it's one of the reasons why I didn't even get top surgery.

00:54:16.200 Just because I feel like, well, that for me wouldn't be very natural.

00:54:19.520 Now I'm putting on this caricature of this person, this woman. 1.00

00:54:23.840 I just, I want to try to do it my way and be who I, give it some time.

00:54:28.040 That's really what I can tell these trans people.

00:54:29.820 You should give it extra time.

00:54:31.620 And I thought I had no time in the world when I transitioned.

00:54:35.000 Yeah, because there's plenty of people who think they're transgender and aren't.

00:54:37.780 Gotta give it time.

00:54:38.160 There's people who think they're something and then it turns out, oh, I'm not back.

00:54:40.820 And 10 years ago at the National Hospital, if I'm not mistaken, would castrate you if you

00:54:45.840 wanted to transition.

00:54:47.500 Which I'm so happy that I live in a day and age where I'm not castrated.

00:54:51.520 Me too. 1.00

00:54:52.100 But there's also a weird thing with being trans because I love my dick. 1.00

00:54:56.700 Does that make me trans? 1.00

00:54:58.300 Some people can say no.

00:55:00.280 Trans people do.

00:55:01.280 Because there's so different levels.

00:55:03.480 Or does it just make me a female?

00:55:05.940 I thought I was going to have the surgery and me now would never say that.

00:55:09.740 And I think that's the core of it, which is that young people are being pushed into having

00:55:16.880 these surgeries, into having these.

00:55:18.880 Because it's the norm.

00:55:20.160 Yes. 1.00

00:55:20.560 So I thought I was going to get the facial feminization surgery and the pussy. 1.00

00:55:24.820 I am so fucking happy I didn't get that pussy. 1.00

00:55:29.360 Imagine if you had told me you were going to. 1.00

00:55:30.800 No, I'm just hearing this for the first time.

00:55:32.420 What?

00:55:32.740 Yeah, but I gave that time. 0.99

00:55:36.400 And if I didn't, maybe I wouldn't be sitting here with a botched up vagina that I would 1.00

00:55:40.320 feel terrible about. 0.99

00:55:41.560 It's not real.

00:55:42.460 It's just not real to me.

00:55:43.720 I'm sorry.

00:55:44.200 I just can't comprehend it.

00:55:45.660 It's not.

00:55:46.240 I just think it just shows you that whenever anything becomes ideological, then all these

00:55:50.860 little nuances of people's individuality in their lives and the fact that it's the right

00:55:55.420 decision for one person, it's not the right decision for another, it all just gets thrown

00:55:59.120 out of the window and you end up with this broad narrative of either, you know, everyone

00:56:03.420 should be trans or like trans people shouldn't be allowed to live their lives. 1.00

00:56:08.040 And it's not like that.

00:56:09.340 My thing that he's right, like it's not, I don't think they know 100%.

00:56:13.240 Everyone, like anyone who thinks they 100% understand exactly what it is, I don't think

00:56:17.780 they know yet.

00:56:18.360 I think they're working on it.

00:56:19.400 I think like, is there something in the brain?

00:56:22.840 Will they find a chemical someday that makes a person transgender that we don't know exists 0.99

00:56:27.540 now?

00:56:27.760 Is there something in the brain chemistry or in the body that they'll find 10 years from

00:56:32.460 now?

00:56:32.720 Because it's definitely different than me just being gay.

00:56:35.780 I mean, then I wouldn't be a man.

00:56:36.740 I just couldn't do that.

00:56:37.800 It's definitely something else.

00:56:39.400 And the mind, it's like Nikki and I have fought enough times for me to know it's a woman's 0.95

00:56:43.680 argument.

00:56:44.160 Like, I'm not arguing with a man.

00:56:45.860 That is the most offensive set on this show so far.

00:56:48.320 But it's, you know what I mean?

00:56:49.600 Like, I've argued with every girlfriend I've had and it's exactly the same.

00:56:54.380 It's the same, and not even the hormones, it's the same thought process.

00:56:57.320 I don't mean irrational emotions.

00:56:58.220 And a lot of guys, ever since I became public, they're like, well, aren't you just a cross-dresser 0.98

00:57:02.020 if you don't have the boobs? 1.00

00:57:03.320 And I'm like, why would I get the boobs just so you can nut all over? 1.00

00:57:06.000 Like, no. 1.00

00:57:07.200 I'm not going to get the tits. 1.00

00:57:09.240 It's not, yeah. 0.68

00:57:10.420 I'm sorry to hear that.

00:57:11.520 Yeah, you and me both. 0.99

00:57:13.520 No, I wouldn't like fake tits. 1.00

00:57:15.520 I love my boobs. 0.99

00:57:16.540 I don't want you to change anything. 0.86

00:57:19.620 If she wanted to, fine, but it's like, make sure the right reasons.

00:57:23.200 For trans people, time really is your best friend.

00:57:25.640 The hourglass.

00:57:26.720 Take the time.

00:57:27.480 Take your time.

00:57:29.440 Extra time.

00:57:30.320 I mean, I'm talking years.

00:57:31.300 I've been on hormones for 10 years now.

00:57:33.100 More than that.

00:57:33.780 I feel great.

00:57:34.600 I wouldn't want.

00:57:35.920 So happy I didn't do anything permanent.

00:57:38.300 Yeah, and it's, I think that's really important.

00:57:41.260 So if somebody is gender dysphoric and they're thinking, oh, I need to go on this path, what

00:57:46.940 would your advice be?

00:57:48.120 Give it 10 years.

00:57:51.840 And that's exactly the opposite of what we're being told.

00:57:55.260 Because we're being told, no, if you don't transition this kid now, they're going to commit suicide.

00:58:00.280 They're going to self-harm.

00:58:02.320 I do understand young people's mind, though, when it comes to hormones, because I was one

00:58:06.560 of them.

00:58:06.900 I do understand what it's like to be 15.

00:58:08.680 I do think you can start some sort of hormone replacement therapy from 14, 15 up.

00:58:14.160 I do believe that, but under supervision.

00:58:16.880 I started at 15 on hormones.

00:58:19.340 I'm still in the exact same dosage.

00:58:21.880 Feel great.

00:58:22.700 And I'm followed up by an endocrinologist.

00:58:24.520 These trans people, you need an endocrinologist. 1.00

00:58:28.220 Very important.

00:58:29.040 And my friend, she's Norwegian.

00:58:30.880 She went to the hospital, too.

00:58:32.700 They pay for the surgeries.

00:58:34.640 So she got the bottom surgery. 0.99

00:58:36.720 It's a complete complication.

00:58:39.240 She had necrosis on her thigh.

00:58:41.520 This much of her thigh they had to remove. 0.99

00:58:44.000 Just black skin. 0.99

00:58:45.860 So it's a real procedure.

00:58:48.100 I think she's happy now, though.

00:58:49.300 Bless her. 0.97

00:58:50.040 But I think people massively underestimate and misrepresent a lot of this stuff.

00:58:55.900 Because it's a crazy thing to do in order to put on a bikini or jeans, which I think a

00:59:00.500 lot of these girls is why they're getting the surgery, too. 1.00

00:59:03.080 And I've talked to a lot of trans girls about it, like just who said they wanted to get

00:59:08.000 surgery.

00:59:08.860 And some have said exactly that, like, I want to be able to go to the beach.

00:59:11.980 And to me, that becomes a very, very visual thing for other people. 0.95

00:59:15.960 And then I've heard some girls just go, I fucking hate the way it feels. 1.00

00:59:19.120 I don't like it. 0.99

00:59:20.060 It doesn't belong.

00:59:21.400 I've heard different answers from different people.

00:59:23.200 So probably different levels of dysphoria. 0.99

00:59:24.480 I don't look down at my cock and scream in agony. 0.99

00:59:27.320 Some people probably do. 1.00

00:59:29.020 Yeah.

00:59:29.760 And it's...

00:59:30.920 I was blessed.

00:59:31.580 Jim does.

00:59:35.360 But I tell you one issue that I have with part of this discussion, and it's actually

00:59:43.220 the use of language.

00:59:44.400 So for instance, when people talk about top surgery, when they say female to male, that

00:59:50.100 really upsets me because I had someone who was very close to me who had a double mastectomy,

00:59:57.100 and I had to help care for her.

00:59:59.520 Is that a top?

01:00:00.460 Yeah.

01:00:00.880 Yeah.

01:00:02.220 Back to the language issue.

01:00:03.720 Back to the language.

01:00:04.620 And they go, it's top surgery.

01:00:05.840 And I go, no, it's not.

01:00:07.000 It's a double mastectomy. 0.94

01:00:08.420 This is a very, very serious operation, which has very real chances of complication.

01:00:13.880 And if complication does set in, you can die.

01:00:16.960 This is...

01:00:17.460 And the same with bottom surgery.

01:00:19.620 I'm like, this isn't...

01:00:20.620 Can we please talk about this honestly?

01:00:22.460 Oh, you don't like the euphemisms?

01:00:23.760 Yeah, I don't like the euphemisms.

01:00:25.080 Well, euphemisms are designed to hide reality.

01:00:27.680 That's what they're for, right?

01:00:29.120 So when you say what Francis is saying, when you say top surgery, you make it sound easy,

01:00:33.540 you make it sound convenient, you make it sound like it's, oh, you know, I just had top

01:00:37.760 surgery and I had a cup of coffee.

01:00:39.200 It's not like that.

01:00:39.860 The girls I've talked...

01:00:40.860 I've actually had girls say bottom surgery. 1.00

01:00:43.080 And I think the impression I got from them was that it's just such a personal thing to

01:00:48.100 discuss, that it's an easy way to discuss a personal thing, as opposed to hiding the 1.00

01:00:54.020 fact that it's, you know, your dick being reconstructed into a vagina. 1.00

01:00:58.260 I think some of them had said bottom surgery because it's a very personal thing. 1.00

01:01:01.780 And it's just...

01:01:02.220 It's a more pleasant way to discuss such personal stuff.

01:01:05.880 That was the impression I got from the girls I talked to.

01:01:07.580 I just think it's two very big operations and surgeries.

01:01:11.380 Yeah.

01:01:12.140 Try to use the most medical term as possible.

01:01:14.640 Scare these people.

01:01:16.160 Don't get that. 0.94

01:01:17.340 Breasts, mastectomy. 0.94

01:01:19.260 Yeah.

01:01:19.440 Well, anyway, we got to wrap up, guys.

01:01:21.260 It's been absolutely great talking to you.

01:01:23.540 What are you...

01:01:23.940 Before we go to our fans' questions and ask you the usual question we end with, what

01:01:29.260 are you guys up to?

01:01:30.000 You've just...

01:01:30.680 I see you've done...

01:01:31.520 You've started a podcast.

01:01:32.800 How's that going?

01:01:33.660 It's good.

01:01:34.060 It's...

01:01:34.700 The YouTube channel is Nicky and Jim NYC.

01:01:38.300 We do a podcast, but I'm not allowed to do audio because I have a radio contract.

01:01:41.860 So it's only on YouTube.

01:01:44.340 It's the only thing I'm allowed to do.

01:01:45.540 Yes.

01:01:45.720 And we have like vlogs showing little bits of our lives.

01:01:49.340 And it's great.

01:01:50.220 It's something I've wanted to do for a long time.

01:01:51.660 It's fun.

01:01:51.980 He works a lot.

01:01:52.500 Yeah.

01:01:52.780 I do laundry and clean and go shopping.

01:01:56.740 On brand.

01:01:57.740 Yes.

01:02:00.280 Fantastic stuff.

01:02:01.180 The last question we always end with is always the same.

01:02:03.480 What's the one thing we're not talking about that we really should be?

01:02:09.320 Good question.

01:02:10.200 You can have your own answer each.

01:02:12.320 Yeah.

01:02:12.460 What do you think?

01:02:13.000 What do you think?

01:02:13.820 Trans people.

01:02:14.780 No, I'm kidding.

01:02:15.740 We...

01:02:16.140 I think we're talking about...

01:02:16.860 Everyone's obsessed.

01:02:19.820 People...

01:02:20.340 What I would say this.

01:02:21.080 What I wish people would discuss more is this obsession people have with not having just

01:02:25.700 who they are be their identity, meaning aligning their identity with politics or outside issues.

01:02:31.480 Like the problem is not liberals or conservatives.

01:02:34.000 It's people's need to marry themselves to something bigger to feel like they matter.

01:02:39.680 People's need to marry themselves to a larger cause to feel like they're important instead

01:02:45.020 of just kind of living and dying in their own opinions.

01:02:48.840 I feel like we should spend more time to appreciate the Freemasons because they try their whole

01:02:54.180 life to become better until the day you die.

01:02:57.480 Better posture, better eating, better living, better humor.

01:03:01.260 Everything has to just be better and better.

01:03:03.520 So I'm going to try to live by the code of the Freemasons. 0.95

01:03:06.540 I did not expect that.

01:03:08.040 I did neither.

01:03:09.100 Are you a Freemason?

01:03:10.780 No, I don't think they like me.

01:03:12.420 They don't like women, I think. 0.94

01:03:15.020 Freemasonry for trans people. 0.99

01:03:16.540 I'm going to make that.

01:03:18.320 And I'll be the first lady.

01:03:20.060 So you like that code?

01:03:21.320 Yeah.

01:03:21.880 Yes.

01:03:22.340 But they won't let you in?

01:03:23.220 Why wouldn't you become a better person of yourself every day?

01:03:26.460 Well, that I agree with completely.

01:03:27.820 I'm not sure you have to be a Freemason to do that.

01:03:30.420 Plus you do the handshake.

01:03:31.500 Don't you do a little tickle on the handshake?

01:03:33.060 Is it the little finger tickle?

01:03:34.120 Yes.

01:03:35.440 You like that as well?

01:03:36.600 Yes.

01:03:37.320 Well, there we go.

01:03:38.040 Classy.

01:03:38.940 Francis is going to get one after the show.

01:03:40.760 Yes.

01:03:41.500 All right, guys.

01:03:42.260 Well, listen, it's been great chatting to you.

01:03:43.660 Thank you.

01:03:44.080 And head on over to Locals where we ask Nikki and Jim your questions.

01:03:47.180 Here's a possibly too personal but hopefully not too contentious question for Jim.

01:03:53.240 What is your attraction spectrum?

01:03:54.940 I've theorized that men attracted to trans women either have a specific attraction to trans

01:03:59.140 or possibly a wider bisexual spectrum to be attracted to.

01:04:02.400 旋ирus.com

01:04:07.840 prior to life.

01:04:09.060 End of time.

01:04:09.940 Yup.

01:04:10.260 Leave it. 0.95

01:04:11.980 Have adjust.

01:04:12.280 Bye.

01:04:13.400 Save it.

01:04:15.420 Save it.

01:04:17.300 Save it.

01:04:17.700 achi.

01:04:21.220 If you've heard

01:04:22.120 of me on the mark

01:04:23.540 speak

01:04:24.100 of the lack

01:04:26.480 of storytelling

01:04:27.560 in the background

TRIGGERnometry - August 28, 2024

PC Culture, Comedy & Our Trans Marriage - Jim & Nikki Norton

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Transcript