PC Culture, Comedy & Our Trans Marriage - Jim & Nikki Norton
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 4 minutes
Words per Minute
208.57355
Summary
In this episode, we have a special guest on the show, a trans woman who has been in comedy for a long time. She is a stand-up comic from the UK, but she also happens to be a transgender woman living in the US. In this episode we talk about what it's like being trans in comedy, and what it means to be sensitive in the modern world.
Transcript
00:00:00.880
Guys that preach politics, comics, shut the fuck up.
00:00:11.240
If you're not going to call me a she on automatic,
00:00:20.840
How do you want to be referred to so I don't get fucking fired?
00:00:27.380
Which I'm so happy that I live in a day and age where I'm not castrated.
00:00:33.920
That's really what I can tell these trans people.
00:00:41.780
People say that this is the golden era of comedy.
00:00:45.720
Now, obviously, Nikki, you're a lot younger than Jim.
00:00:50.060
Is this the golden era of comedy that we're in?
00:00:52.680
Everyone thinks that they're in the golden era.
00:00:58.920
Like, there's a lot of great comedy and a lot of operas.
00:01:02.160
So, I don't know if it's any more the golden era than the 70s
00:01:11.300
Because now you have to be more careful when you make jokes.
00:01:15.880
So, you think that you have to be more careful.
00:01:46.900
I'm trying to work out which F word at this point.
00:02:01.520
Do you think that's making comedy better or worse?
00:02:16.700
I feel like you're watching everyone be careful.
00:02:23.700
On this show, we talked about that a hell of a lot.
00:02:26.160
Because it's less the case, I think, here in the US.
00:02:45.260
That's become, like, the new way to get attention.
00:02:51.180
I feel like we don't take things as serious there,
00:03:02.320
And I feel like it's a little different in Norway,
00:03:04.740
but the whole world is kind of leeching off of the US anyway.
00:03:12.640
we get served for breakfast in Europe the next day.
00:03:15.000
So it's starting to feel like that a little bit.
00:03:22.020
when it comes to speech than it is in the UK, than the US?
00:03:27.400
But I do also feel like it's getting worse, like it is everywhere.
00:03:32.020
I feel like everyone is, like, watching a play.
00:03:34.800
I watched news and I watched, oh, you're so careful.
00:03:41.420
It's like you're doing your job and you're just, you know, that's it.
00:03:45.060
Like someone makes a joke and then, okay, now you'll do your job,
00:03:48.060
which is to get angry about it and tweet about it.
00:03:50.180
And now you're doing your part in this whole thing.
00:03:54.060
It's none of that, but it hasn't been real forever.
00:04:00.180
And also in Norway, there have been, like, jokes with blackface
00:04:04.020
and even saying the N-word on PBS without it being, like, banned.
00:04:10.220
at least in Norway, than what it would be here.
00:04:12.540
I mean, your rap belonged to a song and they have the N-word in it.
00:04:16.200
Being a Norwegian, you wouldn't even think about that.
00:04:18.820
But here it's like they would kill you and cancel you for that.
00:04:22.800
Well, in the UK, there was a girl whose friend was killed in a car accident.
00:04:29.760
And she shared the lyrics of his favorite song,
00:04:33.840
which happened to be a rap song on her Instagram, had the N-word in it.
00:04:42.720
And then that was eventually overturned on appeal.
00:04:46.840
She's, like, 18 years old or something at the time.
00:04:53.400
The radio stations that play it are not prosecuted.
00:04:58.660
And, like, they can go to court with that as a hate speech crime.
00:05:04.060
I watched his trans girl and he's like, she's deliberately calling me a man.
00:05:15.240
Like, isn't that what we rooted for this whole time?
00:05:18.540
We can legally change whatever we want in the Western world, at least.
00:05:21.360
Yeah, every discourtesy and every act of rudeness doesn't have to be legislated by the government.
00:05:25.760
And there doesn't have to be a court appearance because somebody is an asshole.
00:05:28.940
Sometimes people are just assholes and we have to accept the fact that people are assholes.
00:05:32.300
Do you know, we seem, I think, I guess it's the power of the Internet now where people feel like because words travel further.
00:05:39.660
Like in the past, a guy in the bar calling you a man, you know, whatever.
00:05:42.800
Now it sort of feels like they're calling you a man to hundreds of thousands of people.
00:05:47.780
And whether it's true or not, you know, is a side issue.
00:05:50.060
Like because it's offensive, therefore now we have to legislate being an asshole out of existence.
00:05:55.960
I mean, they're going to bring this in the court.
00:05:58.420
It's so unimportant to me if a random stranger were to call me a man.
00:06:03.680
I mean, I don't know why these girls care or the female to males.
00:06:11.620
But because the narrative, Nikki, is that you come from an oppressed minority, you know, every.
00:06:21.060
When the reality is you raped my ancestors and I want a fucking apology.
00:06:32.220
But so the narrative is that you need to be protected.
00:06:42.040
Just because I feel like 10 years ago when I was a boy and I was starting to find out what it would be like to transition.
00:06:52.060
I could only find the ladyboys in Thailand online.
00:06:54.800
So for me to just live this in existence, 10 years, which is a relatively short time, in real life and be married and have a husband, that's really all that matters to me.
00:07:05.960
And I think that's kind of why I don't care about these, like the legislation.
00:07:13.080
I don't think you should ever be fined for calling anyone a him.
00:07:17.160
And the person who's saying like, yeah, you're an oppressed minority, I have to.
00:07:22.720
The person doing that is putting themselves normally in a position of being better than or above.
00:07:36.260
But it's a really sneaky way a lot of times people want to hold on to what they have.
00:07:39.840
So they throw breadcrumbs and they act like, we'll scold you for saying this, but nothing is really going to change.
00:07:47.620
And the thing that I find frustrating is it's one thing if people from the particular group of minority go, hey, listen, that's not cool.
00:08:01.500
But if it's like an outraged white woman going, hey, you shouldn't say this, you're like, fuck off.
00:08:07.980
I also legally couldn't change my name or gender until 2013, which is not that long ago.
00:08:13.940
So I feel like the world as a whole with this trans stuff has just exploded and it's through the roof.
00:08:19.060
I feel like all these complaints, I don't care.
00:08:30.120
That's so true because I think with the trans debate, there's a lot of legitimate conversations about women's sports and other things where I think there's genuine reasons for people to be concerned.
00:08:39.040
But I've always said this, like most normal trans people just want to be left the fuck alone, just like the rest of them.
00:08:47.500
I've never met one trans person who is, and I know comics, not one who is as sensitive as people are on Twitter.
00:08:58.740
And none of them have been that hypersensitive or lack a sense of humor or been so breakable and fragile as people are on Twitter.
00:09:06.540
And all these comments are like, it's a he, it's a boy.
00:09:12.820
I find it irritating if they come on our page and do that, but it's not, oh God, don't you?
00:09:19.020
You know, you're like going on someone's YouTube channel and just making a statement because your pretend character online is you're the guy who tells it like it is.
00:09:27.900
But you're not the guy who tells it like it is.
00:09:29.380
You're the guy who has the profile with no real photo who pretends to be the guy who tells it like it is and then goes back to living his life.
00:09:44.500
I would just ask guys, could you put a dress on, sir?
00:09:53.640
I mean, there's no way you have a dick in your face and you're straight.
00:09:55.960
As a guy, if you tell yourself that, I think you're just playing into the 1950s notion that heterosexual is the only right answer.
00:10:02.060
And every single man who's been with me, it's eventually led to the cock.
00:10:06.720
So I do believe that's also, I can't be straight if, yes, you have a cock in your mouth.
00:10:14.180
Maybe there's some cases where it is, I just don't understand the obsession people have with making it a hetero activity.
00:10:20.120
If you're a man and there's a dick in your face, stop it.
00:10:23.440
Like, what do you need to tell yourself to feel okay about what you're doing?
00:10:27.460
Why is that, why is the word hetero and straight so important to people?
00:10:31.100
But it also took you a long time, I think, to be out in this public.
00:10:35.200
Only because it took you a while to get in the country.
00:10:37.920
I've been talking about this stuff, you know, for 20 years on the radio and in stand-up and joking about it.
00:10:47.040
Just joking about, you know, at first it started where, like, in 2003, where I would pretend I didn't know.
00:10:52.740
Like, that's, you know, like, oh, I didn't know.
00:10:58.220
But that's your way of just talking about something that doesn't get talked about in 2003.
00:11:02.760
And then as time goes on, you just start to say, like, yeah, I like this girl.
00:11:07.700
And all the trans porn stars that would come in to the radio show.
00:11:10.620
And there were some that I had hooked up with and I would admit hooking up with them.
00:11:14.840
You talk about it more and more and you get more comfortable talking about it as the, you know, as the culture gets more comfortable with it, I guess.
00:11:22.200
I think the issue comes in is when you start to mix sexuality with politics, when things start to be politicized, when people start seeing who they are as the most important thing about them.
00:11:36.580
And then they start to see everything through that lens.
00:11:39.180
When the reality is, if you're gay and that is the most interesting thing about you or you're black and that's the most interesting thing about you, then you're a boring person.
00:11:48.440
Like, yeah, if that's the one thing you hang your hat on, is that like, you know, I'm trans or I'm this or I'm that.
00:11:54.200
But it's like, it doesn't really, as long as we can live our lives the way we want to, I don't, I don't, people can say what the fuck they want.
00:12:01.280
Like, I'm not obsessed with people liking us or accepting.
00:12:05.180
I have to say, though, as far as America punishes people with what you say sometimes, I feel like it's the best place to be trans right now, especially being from Norway.
00:12:15.280
And maybe it's because I feel more exposed being Norwegian in Norway.
00:12:18.960
But I feel like people are much more conservative there.
00:12:23.760
I really feel like America is the most accepting and the most non-caring when it comes to me being me.
00:12:31.380
That's what I was going to interject there, Nikki, because I think, I don't know if it's the most accepting.
00:12:40.740
And I think that that's kind of the base basis of this country is how it was built, really.
00:12:45.820
So, in the spirit of not giving a fuck, let me ask you, Jim, did you marry a trans woman just so no one would talk about the age gap?
00:12:54.300
You know, no, because I said I would not marry anybody who was trans if they were closer than 25 years.
00:13:02.140
If there was any, anybody born before 97 was not even considered.
00:13:06.440
If you knew who Black Sabbath was, I wouldn't fuck you.
00:13:14.160
But that, and that at times will be the thing in our relationship that causes us to fight.
00:13:19.880
Like, that's, it's like with most couples who there's a big age difference, life experience and what I want and what her generation thinks, that will sometimes cause an argument.
00:13:28.140
So what, not to start an argument here on set, but like, I'm curious what that generational gap, how does that manifest itself?
00:13:36.460
You know, a lot of times in musical taste, in what we want to do, in the things that we find interesting.
00:13:41.600
Such as, I was saving up with my own money, because I'm doing cameos now, and I was saving up, and he got mad at me because I wanted to save up for a gaming computer.
00:13:51.060
And I mean, unnecessarily mad, scolding mad, like, you're so stupid, you want to waste that money on a gaming computer?
00:14:05.360
I was like, why aren't you thinking about, like, a sofa?
00:14:07.960
It was almost like, why are you thinking about a computer and not getting a sofa, even though I wouldn't let you pay for it anyway?
00:14:13.700
Yeah, it's interesting, but that, I think, goes to the very core of this, which is a generational gap, actually, is far more relevant than a gap than talking about sexuality or gender or race, because that has far more of an impact in our lives, thankfully, than race, gender, and sexuality, because there are people from previous generations who fought, and some of them given their lives, so we can enjoy this.
00:14:41.800
Yeah, I mean, she's actually an old solo, like, Nikki is not typical of somebody who's 26, you know, like, she likes quiet restaurants, like, I like old man shit, like, a steakhouse that has no vibe at all, just quiet.
00:14:55.380
I don't like the hot spot, I hate hot spots, I want it to be old, gentle man.
00:15:04.180
Yes, really, I'm dating an old man, which is my dream, yes.
00:15:09.240
Yes, so that being, so that being the case, Jim, how long did it take you to actually come to terms with this?
00:15:16.580
Because we grew up, so I'm 42, how old are you, Jim?
00:15:20.360
55, so you grew up, so you're firmly in the Gen X bracket.
00:15:23.840
How long did it take you to kind of accept that you were different when it came to your sexuality?
00:15:29.020
I mean, since I was a kid, I mean, you know, since I was very, very small, I've been doing things with boys and girls, so I knew early, early on, accept is different, you know, as most comics don't like ourselves, or we have some kind of a weird feeling, so I don't know how long it took to accept it, but to acknowledge it and go, well, this is real, I mean, I mean, literally from second or third grade, I was there.
00:15:52.000
And how did your audience react when you first started talking about it?
00:15:55.080
They laughed, I think they knew I was being, because I don't typically appeal to what would be considered now a woke audience, or back then, a PC audience, like, I think I appeal to more, like, you know, kind of, you ever see, like, January 6th?
00:16:08.800
Like, that's a crowd that would probably enjoy me.
00:16:12.940
But they were way more accepting than you think, and they were way more genuine than a lot of my liberal friends, as far as, like, yeah, all right, man, I was, like, they were very, uh, it was a little hard for some fans and some friends of mine, especially once Nicky and I were public, but I think, um, because I wasn't apologizing for it, people realized this is who this person is, and if you don't like it, I truly don't care if people like it, and when you present something like that,
00:16:40.880
Well, it's interesting that you mentioned the woke, not woke reaction, because it, I, look, I, I hate woke shit, I really, truly do, I think that we both do, and part of the reason is, is how much of it is performative fake shit, instead of people saying what they really, I'd rather someone was really, like, saying to me, I don't like what you stand for, but they were genuine about it, than pretend shit because it's the right thing to say, you know what I mean?
00:17:05.360
I mean, so, can you delve into that a little bit more, like, what, what are the liberal friends that you have saying about it?
00:17:10.900
Not much, um, and again, and that, and that's fine, I think because we don't come down on that, I can't even say I'm a conservative, I'm absolutely not, because the people I, you detest the most are, are, are Republican, um, like, guys like Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbott, um, but I'm certainly not liberal either, like, so I think because we don't stand 100%, uh, the conservative people I know are much more comfortable with, uh, kind of ambiguity in the politics, as opposed to fucking, the liberal people who know that, I interviewed Trump,
00:17:40.840
and I wasn't a dick to him, and I had a great 40 minute talk about fighting, um, and I didn't sit there and, and, and, and, and virtue signal to him, uh, I just had a great chat, it was a fighting podcast, and they don't like that, that's what, you know what I mean?
00:17:53.360
Like, the fact that I wouldn't have reacted how they think they would react in that situation, um, and I've embraced a lot of the conservative, like, I go on Fox, why?
00:18:02.880
Because Fox has been great to me, they invite me on, they've never once asked me to change my opinion, or try to skew my take on things, CNN wants to have me on, they're more than welcome, but they don't, so you know what I mean?
00:18:16.360
If you do that shit, then a lot of times, I've noticed that liberals are much more likely to be uncomfortable around you than conservatives are, if I do CNN, MSNBC, they don't give a fuck at all.
00:18:25.980
Oh, yeah, we, we have the same thing, it's like, oh, you interviewed this, yeah, we talk to people, we talk to progressives, we talk to people on the right, you know, that's what human beings do, isn't it?
00:18:35.400
It's like I was watching The View, or The Talk, or whatever it's called, where Sharon Osbourne got booted, and I, it was just on the TV, and I was just like, ugh, turn off.
00:18:48.760
Yeah, she made this, she committed this sin of defending Piers Morgan, uh, for not liking, you know what I mean?
00:18:53.820
And it's, it's fucking crazy how it really does just tidal wave on you, and people are so afraid of getting crushed under it, they just go, yeah, yeah, you're right, she's terrible.
00:19:04.660
Yeah, they're terrified of their own side, you know?
00:19:07.880
And it's one thing that I noticed, because we came from the comedy industry, which is hyper-liberal, and particularly in the UK, and one of the things that I noticed when talking to people on the right was a lack of judgment.
00:19:19.540
Was, when I'm talking even to my own friends, I found that I was self-censoring.
00:19:23.820
I can't say that, or I've got to put this in this way, or, and I didn't have that with people on the right.
00:19:28.500
I was, I disagreed, and they went, okay, that's fair.
00:19:32.340
I've not had one friend who's on that side of the, that's, that's asked me to go, whoa, hey.
00:19:38.160
I have not been scolded one time by any of my friends or any of the people I know who are, like, I mean, even far-right guys that I'm friendly with.
00:19:47.800
Not one of them has scolded me or said anything shitty about my relationship.
00:19:51.660
They're all like, oh, it's great, man, you're happy.
00:19:53.220
Like, it's a far more accepting group than, and I hate to break it to liberals, because I know you think you're, like, the compassionate ones, but you've just gotten tremendously ugly.
00:20:02.860
I want to agree with liberals, because they're much more likely to not make us illegal.
00:20:08.260
Well, I was just going to say that I don't, I feel like the liberals are a little bit more pretend than the conservatives.
00:20:17.060
So I was going to say, because I think you guys are where we are, which is, we.
00:20:30.160
Listen, I look far more like I might transition.
00:20:40.180
I don't know if that's praise or not, but I'll take it.
00:20:44.440
But it's, you know, because I think politically, let's just say that, we are kind of similar in that we, I don't see myself as being on the right.
00:20:54.400
There's things on the right that I agree with and there's things on the left that I agree with.
00:20:58.760
But I look at people on the left and I just feel isolated from them, even though I agree with certain things.
00:21:08.040
And you see, you end up in kind of this middle spot, which I don't know if it's a good or a bad thing, let's talk about it, where you don't see yourself as being with either side.
00:21:16.720
And people make the mistake, I think, of saying that if you're in the middle spot, that it's because you're afraid to take a stand.
00:21:24.600
It's, they're trying to convince themselves they're brave.
00:21:27.260
And what they're doing is even more cowardly because they're only saying things that will get the applause from people who agree with them already.
00:21:33.640
Like, they act like they're taking these tough fucking stances.
00:21:36.820
But it's like, if you're a conservative, it's really easy to always attack liberals and vice versa.
00:21:42.780
You're not upsetting the people who are in your group.
00:21:46.100
And more younger people, too, are starting to become political.
00:21:48.660
Like, when I was 15, 16, what happened to being punk and being cool?
00:22:01.360
Guys that preach politics, comics, shut the fuck up.
00:22:06.320
But guys that want to sit up there and teach a lesson, if they use the word platform, it's just, shut your face.
00:22:12.940
It's not, it's, my job is not to educate anybody.
00:22:16.260
If I tell my jokes and I talk about my life and there's something you relate to, that's great.
00:22:22.560
But I get emails from people going, hey, I'm glad you talked about liking transsexuals or having, blowing, whatever it is.
00:22:28.500
And they say, hey, I'm so glad you talked about that because I related to it and no one talks about it.
00:22:33.540
But my job is not to go up there and teach a lesson.
00:22:35.720
And any comic that thinks it is, you're a fucking idiot.
00:22:37.740
Well, yeah, you've got to keep those things separate.
00:22:39.280
So I, for example, stopped doing stand-up precisely when I started giving my opinion about shit because I was like, this doesn't work.
00:22:47.300
And if you want to give serious commentary, you can, if people take you seriously.
00:22:51.040
But then you can't also be on stage doing that.
00:22:56.760
Like Carlin would do interviews and say really smart shit.
00:22:59.320
But on stage, and he did get a little preachy at the end.
00:23:01.860
But I think by that point, he was such a brilliant guy and his brain was so interesting.
00:23:09.320
Well, it's kind of like, it's with Trump too, who's Republican.
00:23:19.220
But there was a transgender girl who won and people on their board were trying to get her off.
00:23:25.580
But Donald Trump actually said, no, she should win.
00:23:29.980
And that, at least for me, being transgender made me change at least a little bit of how I saw Trump.
00:23:37.760
So I really enjoy that, to see that from Trump.
00:23:43.040
But I don't think he personally cares either way.
00:23:46.520
But are you going to tell me he's never thrown a model into a limo?
00:23:54.340
Yeah, it's because I don't mind, you know, people criticizing Trump.
00:23:58.880
Because let's be honest, there's plenty to criticize.
00:24:03.260
I just really don't like it when people make up stuff about him and put forward false criticisms.
00:24:13.200
You're going, no, you're just not being honest.
00:24:24.100
Sometimes I think what he does is ridiculous and stupid and he sucks.
00:24:26.780
Other times I think, yeah, it was a smart thing.
00:24:28.520
But if you have a balanced look at it, people are like, how the fuck could you?
00:24:34.120
If your whole identity is you're anti-Trump, you're a bore.
00:24:37.760
If your whole identity is based on your politics, you're fucking boring.
00:24:43.980
I don't think like, fuck, there's a lesson teacher.
00:24:50.120
I'm right half the time and I'm wrong half the time.
00:24:52.780
And it's, you know, when I look at American comedy, that's what I always loved.
00:24:57.220
It was this kind of the, you know, the profane, the outrageous, kind of like Trump.
00:25:09.900
He's what every guy wanted to be and what every woman wanted to be with in America, which
00:25:17.540
But also, I remember, I think I've told the story on the show before.
00:25:22.220
I remember watching, I think the original Die Hard.
00:25:28.480
And this, my wife and I were watching it as a Christmas movie long after Trump had been
00:25:33.760
By this point, he was evil, racist, you know, all this stuff.
00:25:36.820
And we're watching this thing and there's a point in the movie where a guy has to come
00:25:44.040
into like a telephone connection place and say to the woman who's running it, we're going
00:25:48.900
to have to route all the calls for the city of New York through this one exchange.
00:25:53.200
And this is a black woman, which is relevant to the conversation, because she goes,
00:26:00.000
Like, people forget he was an aspirational figure.
00:26:03.940
He was the reference point for handsome, rich, eligible bachelor.
00:26:07.580
And then he ran for politics and suddenly he became, like, they just changed his persona
00:26:20.040
It just speaks to the power, I think, of, like, media narratives about people.
00:26:30.060
They can just make you into whatever they want.
00:26:33.320
And that's why anybody, anybody who is a complete, on one side, I just think is a stupid person.
00:26:44.440
So I'm going to give you an example of what's happening in the UK when it comes to what's
00:26:50.980
So in Scotland, they introduced hate speech laws, which criminalizes public performance.
00:26:57.240
And the Edinburgh Festival is the largest arts and comedy festival in the world.
00:27:01.440
So this piece of legislation says that if you perform something which is deemed to be
00:27:10.780
And so, and their definition of what is hateful is something that a reasonable person might
00:27:19.300
Trey, up for interpretation, what is a reasonable person?
00:27:22.240
And a reasonable person in one part of Scotland is a lot different than a reasonable person
00:27:27.100
A reasonable person in Alabama feels a lot differently about abortion than a reasonable
00:27:34.060
It's entirely insane because we all have our touch points about some things.
00:27:39.400
Like, there are some subjects you can make every joke about.
00:27:51.200
Like, I had to stop devils advocating for Hitler's speeches.
00:28:08.440
I love it because it's like they're fucking up their own graduation and it's like they're
00:28:20.940
That's why I don't want to pay for people's college education.
00:28:28.460
It's, do you ever feel that we've entered, like the term clown world is something that I
00:28:39.100
There are times where you just read about something like, I read, you told me yesterday.
00:28:43.840
So we were walking down, walking down the road in New York.
00:28:53.900
Oh, by the way, mate, there's a group of people who are storming the Met Gallery and
00:29:00.440
And they've broken through the barriers whilst chanting for an intifada.
00:29:13.160
They have no idea what they're, what it actually, what it would mean or just, they don't understand
00:29:17.580
that a lot of people you think that you're rooting for.
00:29:20.380
And by that, I mean the political groups that would hate your fucking guts.
00:29:24.240
I don't understand gay people who are really like looking, almost rooting for, rooting
00:29:29.380
for civilians to not be killed is a lot different than rooting for Hamas or anything like that.
00:29:34.000
If you're gay or if you're, you know, it's like your life is illegal there.
00:29:37.700
Well, I, the, the, the whole queers for Palestine phenomenon, it's like they will throw you
00:29:45.160
I had a friend who escaped his, his country in the Middle East and he was still in Islam
00:29:55.700
And I couldn't comprehend that as being this Norwegian non-religious.
00:29:59.840
For me, it was weird to see that you're still as religious in your home base.
00:30:03.260
Meanwhile, you had to go through, through the UN and flee a country and get a new citizenship
00:30:11.560
I haven't read my Quran cover to cover, but I'm not sure it's pro-trans.
00:30:17.840
They probably didn't in religious texts because it wasn't a thing then.
00:30:21.340
I will never, ever travel to a Middle Eastern country.
00:30:26.860
Dubai, I see many trans girls there, but why would I go when they can legally put me in
00:30:32.680
I don't want to support that with any pennies that I might have.
00:30:36.700
Because I always wanted to go see the Burge Tower or any of these things.
00:30:39.520
But if I can't go there with her, then it's like, I don't want to support it either.
00:30:43.060
I don't want to go to a place where the people disgrace me.
00:30:47.920
I found it really touching, actually, you on Rogue and Jim talking about how when the
00:30:52.740
COVID restrictions hit, you literally packed your bag in an hour and went to Canada because
00:31:00.320
Well, I had just gotten, my producer at the time was at the house and he just goes, he
00:31:05.480
goes, hey, they're going to close the Canadian border.
00:31:10.820
So I assumed it would be a few weeks, but I just, I couldn't picture not seeing her every
00:31:15.440
So I wound up just packing a suitcase and I really was on the road in an hour talking
00:31:20.640
to my manager the whole way up who was calling border patrol saying, hey, I know someone who
00:31:25.540
might be coming through and they're like, send them home.
00:31:30.480
But I wound up getting to the border and the woman was, I knew she didn't want it to turn
00:31:35.700
me away, but I'm like, ah, my fiance is up there.
00:31:39.620
And I told her I'll be up there for a couple of weeks.
00:31:44.680
I can't believe how long I was out of the States.
00:31:50.200
But Sirius wasn't allowing people in the office.
00:31:56.080
We got to live together for a year and see if it worked under the worst circumstances.
00:32:00.700
I never wanted to live in Canada, but I did for three years.
00:32:08.280
It was, it's crazy that it worked, but it became a real relationship.
00:32:19.540
No, it was, it was, it was, I, I, yeah, we were in limbo.
00:32:24.220
Because I just wanted to be in the States and live our real lives.
00:32:26.820
So being in Canada, you know, waiting to come apart, overcome a pot charge.
00:32:41.180
I couldn't imagine what I would do with my life if she didn't get in.
00:32:43.460
Just because it took me five years to get in for a $100 pot charge.
00:32:55.840
You should have just come through the southern border.
00:32:59.100
They just sent a summons by mail when I was a police thing.
00:33:09.120
Because you have to go with federal drug conviction.
00:33:11.020
And now in many states in the US, you can buy weed legally.
00:33:18.340
But right now, even if you're here, like legally, totally, be careful about saying if you
00:33:23.220
smoke pot, because they can still fuck you with it, because federally, it's still a problem.
00:33:31.500
So when the COVID came, and obviously you went to Canada, there were a lot of people.
00:33:36.760
You saw this shift from comedians in California and New York, and the other blue states as
00:33:43.280
well, but mainly from New York and California, wake up and go, I need to get out.
00:33:48.300
If you think about Segura, Rogan, et cetera, et cetera.
00:33:54.160
I don't have the same tax concerns that Rogan and Segura have.
00:33:58.320
I think that Austin, for them, besides the fact that there's a lot more freedom there,
00:34:01.920
also gives great, it's a much different tax because there's no state tax.
00:34:09.220
And I think that they were probably just both sick and tired.
00:34:14.580
I imagine there's a lot of things that just got to him there.
00:34:20.280
I do, but I have to say, Jim, from speaking to Joe, we've been on his show a few times,
00:34:26.080
I think the COVID restrictions really pissed me off.
00:34:31.840
Were you as concerned about it with the stuff that was happening here, or was it more of
00:34:38.020
I was in such a rage that we couldn't do anything, that the embassies were closed.
00:34:49.400
I mean, you were not even arrested, almost, if you didn't get vaccinated.
00:34:59.600
We were in Montreal, and the building was called Rocket Bell.
00:35:04.760
Even the guy in my lobby, but he knows that I don't speak French.
00:35:24.240
We were talking, obviously, about liberal and conservative.
00:35:26.540
What I found really annoying about the whole COVID situation is the most liberal places
00:35:40.940
I wanted people to get vaccinated, but I just wanted everything to be over.
00:35:47.980
I just wanted this whole thing to be over so she and I could continue and she could get
00:35:55.120
Oh, yeah, because it backed up the embassies too.
00:35:59.760
And we knew we had to go through Homeland Security.
00:36:04.100
The US government literally operates like it's 1947.
00:36:19.780
Yeah, until you make a joke and then you get put in prison.
00:36:29.040
But to me, that was one of the things that really changed the way that I viewed the world.
00:36:34.980
Because when the restrictions came in, and when I saw friends that I would classify as liberal,
00:36:39.900
for want of a better way of putting it, and they were like, yeah, let's shut more down.
00:36:46.200
If you don't take the vaccine, maybe we should castrate you.
00:36:48.820
And you're just going, what the hell is going on?
00:36:51.580
And actually, if you had told me a few years ago that I was going to want to move to Texas and to do the show from Texas,
00:37:04.480
Well, in the middle of the pandemic, we literally sat down with our producer and we were like,
00:37:14.740
And I wish I didn't hate Greg Abbott and Ron DeSantis.
00:37:18.160
I wish I didn't hate these governors for their social stuff so much, for their obsession with trans people and sexuality.
00:37:25.380
You know, I just, I wish I didn't hate them so much because I like that about those states.
00:37:30.420
I mean, I'm against having drag queens in school.
00:37:35.760
I don't care about that as long as they're not sexual.
00:37:44.020
I mean, if you're going to have even laughs in school, why does it have to be from a drag queen?
00:37:49.460
And why would you push to have this drag queen?
00:37:55.560
I mean, you're caked up with makeup in a thong underneath.
00:38:03.300
Let's say you walked in to teach a class looking the way you do.
00:38:12.920
It would be because everybody would pay attention.
00:38:18.140
And I don't think that these drag queens should be in school.
00:38:23.480
If they're dressed really sexually or anything like that, yeah, of course.
00:38:28.720
But as far as just being a drag queen and being campy and silly, I don't think there's anything
00:38:34.040
wrong with somebody who is being over the top campy as long as they're not being sexual.
00:38:41.220
I don't care if you're just a summer drag queen or whatever out in a parade.
00:38:46.440
I just, I don't think they should be in school at all.
00:38:50.900
I have to say I side with you on that argument.
00:38:53.780
Generally, and it's good to hear you say it because when I say it, I sound like a bigot
00:39:00.800
I never had drag queens in my Norwegian lecture teaching history.
00:39:06.820
But if they have it where, like, instead of saying drag queens shouldn't be there, how
00:39:10.500
about any person who's behaving or dressed in a sexual manner?
00:39:13.800
There's a big difference between a campy drag queen.
00:39:18.820
You don't, but I'm saying why do you need a Boy Scout master?
00:39:33.460
I don't understand what's going on with these costumes and tiger ears.
00:39:41.900
And also, you know, I'm keen to explore why DeSantis and Abbott, what your issues with
00:39:47.360
Because we have had people on the show to talk about some, people say they're banning
00:39:56.660
It's not the same as banning a book, which are very heavily sexualized as well.
00:40:06.320
Some of the, didn't some of the books, and I don't know all the time, didn't some,
00:40:11.380
I mean, liberals wanted to take off Huck Finn because, the N-words, you know, so every
00:40:18.120
They've had plenty of things that they wanted to remove.
00:40:20.120
And they want to take down 200-year-old statues.
00:40:31.240
I don't care about some Civil War asshole who is fighting for slavery.
00:40:35.340
It's not that the statue offends me, but I don't care about it.
00:40:38.280
It doesn't mean anything to me, and anyone whose identity is tied into a statue is a fucking idiot.
00:40:44.080
I just don't care if the statue is 200 years old.
00:40:46.900
You're just finding something to complain about.
00:40:54.700
No, people go and look at them and stand inside.
00:41:08.280
But it's interesting that you say that because, again, this is one of the things that we do.
00:41:20.840
And you go, well, maybe everybody's an individual, and they all think their own way.
00:41:26.200
Meanwhile, I say what I say about drag queens in school, and I'm the conservative.
00:41:30.740
You just don't want sexualized things in school.
00:41:37.620
I don't agree with that, but I do think that anything sexualized shouldn't be.
00:41:42.280
And a lot of trans or gay people will probably resent me for saying that, but my Nordic mind
00:41:50.180
And it's also as well, you know, some things are just not appropriate for school.
00:41:56.320
When did this become a controversial thing to say?
00:42:05.220
And if they're just going to sit there and read a book, can it just be a person?
00:42:09.560
The makeup and the wig doesn't do anything for me.
00:42:13.060
And guys like DeSantis, the reason I don't like him, and there's a lot that he does that
00:42:16.820
I love that he cracked down on those shit squatters.
00:42:19.460
There's a lot of things DeSantis has done that I think are fucking great, but I hate
00:42:23.600
him because like the whole obsession with sexuality and like if you mention homosexuality
00:42:29.300
or trans people to a kid, there's a way to talk about it where you're not telling anybody
00:42:35.960
But it also, people say, what good does it do to tell that to a third grader?
00:42:39.020
Because if the kid's gay and he's a third grader and he's being beaten up by people who
00:42:42.760
hear the word faggot at home, well, maybe now if in school they say, hey, you're human
00:42:46.600
and it's okay to be this way, A, the kid won't get treated as badly, and B, maybe the
00:42:51.580
kid knows, hey, I'm not broken because I feel this way.
00:42:53.960
So there is a way to talk about it where you're not convincing people of anything sexual.
00:42:58.800
And I think that just wiping that off the table is terrible.
00:43:01.800
May I also say that the other side too is pushing for very young people to do sexual
00:43:07.240
reassignment surgeries and these are the gay groups that do these, these actual funded
00:43:13.820
by government, gay, right groups, they will go on about as a group and support that nine
00:43:20.520
and 10 and 11 year olds can get that surgery with their parents' signature.
00:43:33.760
I think that's why people like Ron DeSantis probably says these things.
00:43:40.760
I think that's where the anger comes from, though, when it's both from the both sides.
00:43:46.180
Look at the, sorry, look what the Republicans said.
00:43:49.940
If you look at the Republican charter in Texas, they don't like gays either.
00:43:53.260
Like, that doesn't come from just a modern, common sense, 10-year-old transition discussion.
00:43:59.660
This comes from a deep down dislike of the entire subject.
00:44:04.180
I think what you guys are having the argument about is actually a microcosm of what's happening
00:44:10.060
I think your point, Jim, is entirely correct, which is there are some people who've had to
00:44:15.020
kind of keep it quiet for a while where they just don't like sexual minorities.
00:44:22.280
They don't want anyone to be able to get married if they're not a man and a woman.
00:44:25.480
And those people have had to keep it quiet for a while because it became unsayable, right?
00:44:31.520
And so now, the other side, Nikki, that you're talking about is this is 100% happening.
00:44:37.760
We have had endless people on the show, like, covering this stuff about sexualization of
00:44:43.420
Like, they're literally showing them porn about anal sex in school.
00:44:47.600
It's a book, but it's basically the subject, right?
00:44:56.540
You've got, as you say, Nikki, I don't know if they're gay groups, but there are various
00:45:00.780
LGB whatever groups pushing this stuff onto young people.
00:45:05.140
And that's where normal people like us and like you are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is
00:45:10.100
I'm the only one who's not normal in this group.
00:45:11.820
Well, mate, let's accept you're not normal, given everything.
00:45:17.500
And then the overwhelming majority of people in the middle who are like, we're absolutely
00:45:23.120
We're absolutely fine with trans people being trans.
00:45:26.380
And we're not for people being drag queen story hour for six year olds, putting fucking
00:45:35.540
And we're not in favor of porn in schools and all this other stuff.
00:45:39.200
That's where I would say like 95% of the people are.
00:45:41.800
And then you've got these two retard sides fighting over it, basically.
00:45:58.500
And again, the Canadians had to, they had to do it through the court system because everything
00:46:04.880
But to, oh no, they're just, it's a glandular condition.
00:46:08.280
The fact that that person got a second chance is like insane to me.
00:46:14.900
I mean, if you're in front of kids with these H, double H size tits with the nipples showing
00:46:24.400
Then I know, I can't comprehend how the Canadian board gave this maniac a second chance.
00:46:35.620
But if you walk into school with giant tits and a miniskirt and you're not, you're not
00:46:39.540
You're just, there's something about doing that in front of, that's, that's different.
00:46:45.020
And then all of a sudden to go, we thought it was a glandular condition.
00:46:48.480
That guy shouldn't get rehired just because he lied about what was going on with him.
00:46:54.340
I mean, when I was in Canada and I was applying for a job, they asked me my pronouns.
00:46:59.260
I mean, I get that they're trying to better it for people like me, but it doesn't make
00:47:08.100
Just because then I feel like I have to think about it and I have to prove it to these people.
00:47:12.620
Like, hey, make sure you call me a she or it's going to, it's like in the air.
00:47:18.320
I hate when I have to re-clarify to people, better call me a she.
00:47:24.540
Sorry, Jim, I'm just curious because it's interesting you say that.
00:47:28.100
If I was talking to Jim and I was saying, well, what a Nikki he, like, how would that
00:47:34.060
Well, I mean, like I could guess I could say that.
00:47:37.220
Please call me a she, but I'm not going to do that.
00:47:39.360
If you're not going to call me a she on automatic, then my mission has failed.
00:47:45.560
I would get annoyed if I felt it was on purpose.
00:47:49.140
There's a difference between making an honest mistake and somebody who's making a statement
00:47:55.940
Like, somebody who's going, so he, and it's like, you know, as a stand-up, you kind of
00:47:59.460
know, you read people, you know what they're doing.
00:48:01.560
But that's where my point came from with the hate crime, where someone said they are deliberately
00:48:05.140
calling me he, although they know I refer myself to a she, and they took them to court,
00:48:11.920
And the pronoun thing just being integrated in society, I don't know.
00:48:18.880
I think people ask about it also so they don't get in trouble.
00:48:22.100
I think part of the reason people say, what's your preferred pronoun, is because if they
00:48:25.500
make a mistake, we've taught that you're going to get punished now.
00:48:28.340
So they want to know, how do you want to be referred to so I don't get fucking fired?
00:48:33.180
Yeah, but I mean, I think that's why they're doing it.
00:48:34.400
Do you not think that the best way to resolve those mistakes, though, is just, like, personal
00:48:41.020
And, by the way, like, some people may say, well, I don't want to do that, because I have
00:48:44.400
certain beliefs about that, so I'm just going to call you Nikki.
00:48:54.000
It does get where some people are just dug in, and they are just doing it.
00:48:57.680
Like, somebody who works for the state and refused, like, that fucking asshole who refused
00:49:01.360
to issue gay marriage licenses, and people said she was exercising religious freedom,
00:49:12.760
And I remember Mike Huckabee went to bat for her, because they thought she was defending
00:49:16.680
a religion, but it's like your religion is interfering with your ability to do your job, so quit
00:49:23.260
I mean, if you can't do your job because of a religious belief, then you shouldn't be in that
00:49:29.120
Nikki, we spoke a little bit about this, where we were talking about child transition,
00:49:33.740
and this is something that I find really interesting, because in the UK, we've had the CAS report,
00:49:43.680
It has been shown that they've not been giving kids the required support, and it's actually
00:49:49.840
something that I agree with, said that you shouldn't be giving puberty blockers to kids
00:49:58.780
So I started when I was like 14, 15, and even back then, for me personally, being a teenager
00:50:08.240
I'm like, if I get this beard, dysphoria was real to me.
00:50:12.520
I felt it in my heart that the clock was ticking, and I wanted to be on these hormones ASAP.
00:50:18.660
In Norway, however, though, you can't just go to a doctor and get hormones.
00:50:21.680
You've got to be referred by a psychiatrist to the national hospital, and then they have
00:50:28.120
The most interesting part, you have to live and show it to them one year as the opposite
00:50:33.480
gender in order for them to even consider you as a valid trans person.
00:50:44.400
You've got to have a team of people to evaluate you, I think, an endocrinologist.
00:50:48.900
I don't think you can just be 12 years old and start on hormones by some doctor.
00:50:55.780
You don't think a male prisoner should be able to say, I'm a woman now, and get sent
00:51:03.280
Because we had this case in the UK, we had several cases in the UK, where actually rapists
00:51:13.960
But then, and the issue is always difficult because, well, obviously, they shouldn't be
00:51:19.700
But I'm not saying this won't happen to you, but if you were to be convicted of a crime,
00:51:29.080
I have a mental illness diagnosis given to me by the government of Norway.
00:51:36.500
So I believe that it's called transgenderism F.64 or something.
00:51:44.220
And I believe all trans people should have that diagnosis.
00:51:48.920
So you think that being transgender is a mental illness?
00:51:56.920
You're not the first person to have said that, including several trans people on our
00:52:01.000
I wouldn't say yes five years ago, being young and whatever, but 110%.
00:52:09.700
Just because you realize that if depression can be a mental illness and classified as that,
00:52:16.780
How is the dysphoria that I felt in my heart at 14 so real to me?
00:52:26.120
How is that not something going on in the brain and in my system?
00:52:34.260
Because there's a lot of people who thankfully have never suffered gender dysphoria.
00:52:38.840
We both know people who have, and it sounds awful.
00:52:44.620
Like if your skin feels like a man's skin, if you feel stubble, if the hair is short.
00:52:53.620
And what does that mean to give you real dysphoria?
00:52:56.300
Because if I, well, I can just tell you I'd rather be dead than live life as a man.
00:53:14.540
I think that it would be terrible if I lived life as a man.
00:53:18.540
And ever since I was this young, I walked like this, you know, the gay hand.
00:53:24.160
But then when the dysphoria hit me, it's just, I don't know.
00:53:32.380
All these other trans people, it's the same thing.
00:53:34.360
So I don't really think I believe that the world really understands it.
00:53:38.780
Even the National Hospital in Norway, I don't think they perfected what this is yet.
00:53:43.400
But as far as their work on me or whatever, I think it's the most reasonable to get evaluated.
00:53:51.480
And this is kind of one of the issues with this issue being so politicized.
00:53:55.360
Because what's happened is there are people like you for whom it's exactly the right way
00:54:03.260
But there are also people who kind of get sucked into it because they have some other kind of mental issues.
00:54:13.140
And it's one of the reasons why I didn't even get top surgery.
00:54:16.200
Just because I feel like, well, that for me wouldn't be very natural.
00:54:19.520
Now I'm putting on this caricature of this person, this woman.
00:54:23.840
I just, I want to try to do it my way and be who I, give it some time.
00:54:28.040
That's really what I can tell these trans people.
00:54:31.620
And I thought I had no time in the world when I transitioned.
00:54:35.000
Yeah, because there's plenty of people who think they're transgender and aren't.
00:54:38.160
There's people who think they're something and then it turns out, oh, I'm not back.
00:54:40.820
And 10 years ago at the National Hospital, if I'm not mistaken, would castrate you if you
00:54:47.500
Which I'm so happy that I live in a day and age where I'm not castrated.
00:54:52.100
But there's also a weird thing with being trans because I love my dick.
00:55:05.940
I thought I was going to have the surgery and me now would never say that.
00:55:09.740
And I think that's the core of it, which is that young people are being pushed into having
00:55:20.560
So I thought I was going to get the facial feminization surgery and the pussy.
00:55:36.400
And if I didn't, maybe I wouldn't be sitting here with a botched up vagina that I would
00:55:46.240
I just think it just shows you that whenever anything becomes ideological, then all these
00:55:50.860
little nuances of people's individuality in their lives and the fact that it's the right
00:55:55.420
decision for one person, it's not the right decision for another, it all just gets thrown
00:55:59.120
out of the window and you end up with this broad narrative of either, you know, everyone
00:56:03.420
should be trans or like trans people shouldn't be allowed to live their lives.
00:56:09.340
My thing that he's right, like it's not, I don't think they know 100%.
00:56:13.240
Everyone, like anyone who thinks they 100% understand exactly what it is, I don't think
00:56:22.840
Will they find a chemical someday that makes a person transgender that we don't know exists
00:56:27.760
Is there something in the brain chemistry or in the body that they'll find 10 years from
00:56:32.720
Because it's definitely different than me just being gay.
00:56:39.400
And the mind, it's like Nikki and I have fought enough times for me to know it's a woman's
00:56:45.860
That is the most offensive set on this show so far.
00:56:49.600
Like, I've argued with every girlfriend I've had and it's exactly the same.
00:56:54.380
It's the same, and not even the hormones, it's the same thought process.
00:56:58.220
And a lot of guys, ever since I became public, they're like, well, aren't you just a cross-dresser
00:57:03.320
And I'm like, why would I get the boobs just so you can nut all over?
00:57:19.620
If she wanted to, fine, but it's like, make sure the right reasons.
00:57:23.200
For trans people, time really is your best friend.
00:57:38.300
Yeah, and it's, I think that's really important.
00:57:41.260
So if somebody is gender dysphoric and they're thinking, oh, I need to go on this path, what
00:57:51.840
And that's exactly the opposite of what we're being told.
00:57:55.260
Because we're being told, no, if you don't transition this kid now, they're going to commit suicide.
00:58:02.320
I do understand young people's mind, though, when it comes to hormones, because I was one
00:58:08.680
I do think you can start some sort of hormone replacement therapy from 14, 15 up.
00:58:24.520
These trans people, you need an endocrinologist.
00:58:50.040
But I think people massively underestimate and misrepresent a lot of this stuff.
00:58:55.900
Because it's a crazy thing to do in order to put on a bikini or jeans, which I think a
00:59:00.500
lot of these girls is why they're getting the surgery, too.
00:59:03.080
And I've talked to a lot of trans girls about it, like just who said they wanted to get
00:59:08.860
And some have said exactly that, like, I want to be able to go to the beach.
00:59:11.980
And to me, that becomes a very, very visual thing for other people.
00:59:15.960
And then I've heard some girls just go, I fucking hate the way it feels.
00:59:21.400
I've heard different answers from different people.
00:59:24.480
I don't look down at my cock and scream in agony.
00:59:35.360
But I tell you one issue that I have with part of this discussion, and it's actually
00:59:44.400
So for instance, when people talk about top surgery, when they say female to male, that
00:59:50.100
really upsets me because I had someone who was very close to me who had a double mastectomy,
01:00:08.420
This is a very, very serious operation, which has very real chances of complication.
01:00:29.120
So when you say what Francis is saying, when you say top surgery, you make it sound easy,
01:00:33.540
you make it sound convenient, you make it sound like it's, oh, you know, I just had top
01:00:43.080
And I think the impression I got from them was that it's just such a personal thing to
01:00:48.100
discuss, that it's an easy way to discuss a personal thing, as opposed to hiding the
01:00:54.020
fact that it's, you know, your dick being reconstructed into a vagina.
01:00:58.260
I think some of them had said bottom surgery because it's a very personal thing.
01:01:02.220
It's a more pleasant way to discuss such personal stuff.
01:01:05.880
That was the impression I got from the girls I talked to.
01:01:07.580
I just think it's two very big operations and surgeries.
01:01:23.940
Before we go to our fans' questions and ask you the usual question we end with, what
01:01:38.300
We do a podcast, but I'm not allowed to do audio because I have a radio contract.
01:01:45.720
And we have like vlogs showing little bits of our lives.
01:01:50.220
It's something I've wanted to do for a long time.
01:02:01.180
The last question we always end with is always the same.
01:02:03.480
What's the one thing we're not talking about that we really should be?
01:02:21.080
What I wish people would discuss more is this obsession people have with not having just
01:02:25.700
who they are be their identity, meaning aligning their identity with politics or outside issues.
01:02:31.480
Like the problem is not liberals or conservatives.
01:02:34.000
It's people's need to marry themselves to something bigger to feel like they matter.
01:02:39.680
People's need to marry themselves to a larger cause to feel like they're important instead
01:02:45.020
of just kind of living and dying in their own opinions.
01:02:48.840
I feel like we should spend more time to appreciate the Freemasons because they try their whole
01:02:57.480
Better posture, better eating, better living, better humor.
01:03:03.520
So I'm going to try to live by the code of the Freemasons.
01:03:23.220
Why wouldn't you become a better person of yourself every day?
01:03:27.820
I'm not sure you have to be a Freemason to do that.
01:03:44.080
And head on over to Locals where we ask Nikki and Jim your questions.
01:03:47.180
Here's a possibly too personal but hopefully not too contentious question for Jim.
01:03:54.940
I've theorized that men attracted to trans women either have a specific attraction to trans
01:03:59.140
or possibly a wider bisexual spectrum to be attracted to.