TRIGGERnometry - Piers Morgan - “Israel Has Gone Too Far”

00:00:00.720 I'm afraid the cynic in me would suggest that Netanyahu has seen a poll boost from warfare.

00:00:08.700 Do you think there's been any proportionality now in Israel's response?

00:00:11.920 Well, what I'm asking you...

00:00:12.580 I mean, 1,200 people got killed over the 7th.

00:00:14.980 We're now up to maybe as many as 100,000 people.

00:00:17.680 But, Piers, with all respect, that's a terrible argument.

00:00:19.940 Is it?

00:00:20.280 Yeah, because way more Germans were killed at the end of World War II

00:00:23.380 than British people were killed, and yet we bombed Germany into the ground.

00:00:26.320 70% of Gaza has been flat.

00:00:28.560 Yes.

00:00:28.760 In what way would you not think that suggests a degree of indiscriminate bombing?

00:00:35.740 Why doesn't Netanyahu want journalists in Gaza to verify all these stories?

00:00:40.560 There's no other war zone where you've had a complete blanket back.

00:00:43.800 In Ukraine, you can't go on the front line if you're a journalist.

00:00:46.000 It's front line.

00:00:46.820 And all of Gaza is a front line.

00:00:48.480 Well...

00:00:48.900 It is.

00:00:49.400 It's not.

00:00:49.920 It is.

00:00:50.400 Of course it isn't.

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00:01:23.620 Piers Morgan, welcome back to Trigonology.

00:01:25.320 I said I never could be back with you.

00:01:27.780 Like Al Pacino and Godfather 3, you sucked me back in.

00:01:30.620 We sucked you back in.

00:01:31.520 And look, there's a lot to talk about.

00:01:33.460 We want to talk about Israel and Gaza in a second

00:01:37.040 because it's important.

00:01:37.840 You've been doing a lot of coverage hosting,

00:01:39.540 a lot of discussions.

00:01:40.920 You're one of the biggest platforms

00:01:42.440 that is really giving that issue a lot of attention in the Western media.

00:01:45.860 But first, there's something happening in the UK.

00:01:47.860 I don't know if you feel this.

00:01:48.900 As we're sitting here, this might not go out for a week or so,

00:01:51.540 so we might all be proven out to be wrong.

00:01:53.780 But one after another, we're seeing protests in Britain,

00:01:57.540 small at the moment, outside of migrant hotels,

00:02:00.480 often because one of the people in those hotels

00:02:04.400 has committed some kind of sexual abuse of a local girl, child often.

00:02:09.460 Yesterday, and this shocked me,

00:02:10.740 there was a protest outside a hotel in Canary Wharf.

00:02:14.820 For people who don't know what Canary Wharf is,

00:02:16.640 the only people who live there are basically bankers

00:02:19.380 and foreign students.

00:02:20.800 And the Daily Mirror.

00:02:21.960 Right.

00:02:22.860 And I'm not sure the Daily Mirror is outside

00:02:25.300 a migrant hotel protesting.

00:02:26.960 It, and Angela Rayner now, it's been, I think, leaked or revealed,

00:02:31.920 said in a cabinet meeting, if we don't address people's concerns,

00:02:34.780 we're going to have real problems.

00:02:36.460 And I think a lot of people are thinking about what happened last summer.

00:02:39.040 Are you concerned that the UK may be on its way to more riots this summer?

00:02:43.580 Yeah, I am.

00:02:44.840 And look, I absolutely believe in people's right to protest

00:02:49.040 if they protest without violence.

00:02:51.580 So let's just put that on the table.

00:02:54.440 But it does feel to me like this government's come in,

00:02:57.960 they've had many years to think about what they would do

00:03:00.180 about this particular issue,

00:03:02.180 particularly the small boats coming over from France.

00:03:05.640 Keir Starmer was big on, we're going to smash the gangs.

00:03:08.420 Here we are a year later, no gangs have been smashed.

00:03:11.500 The numbers of people coming in on the small boats has increased.

00:03:14.420 And a lot of them are being put up when they get here

00:03:17.780 in these rather nice hotels with their costs being paid for

00:03:22.720 at a time when many people in Britain are suffering

00:03:24.860 from acute financial difficulties.

00:03:27.420 That's obviously going to cause resentment.

00:03:30.120 You know, this whole issue of immigration,

00:03:32.680 I look at what's happened with Trump in America.

00:03:35.440 He campaigned very loudly, a bit like Keir Starmer did

00:03:39.400 with smash the gangs on,

00:03:41.300 I'm going to shut the problem down at the southern border.

00:03:44.420 Nearly 10, maybe 12 million people came on illegally

00:03:47.120 in the four years of the Biden administration.

00:03:49.640 Absolutely shocking numbers.

00:03:51.420 Trump's got it down to, I think, 6,000 a month now.

00:03:53.960 Almost like there's no one coming in.

00:03:56.240 So it can be done.

00:03:57.580 You know, I keep asking myself,

00:03:58.600 what would Trump do about the small boats?

00:04:00.140 He'd probably say to Macron,

00:04:01.520 OK, 1,000% tariffs on all French imports until you stop this.

00:04:05.800 Because it can only stop at the French end.

00:04:07.520 Once they're at sea, as we can see,

00:04:10.500 it's incredibly difficult to stop it.

00:04:12.160 So there's a lot of resentments been building up about this

00:04:14.580 because people in Britain,

00:04:16.120 a lot of them are suffering acute financial difficulty

00:04:18.620 and they're seeing what they perceive to be,

00:04:21.340 for better or worse,

00:04:22.880 people coming in illegally into the country,

00:04:24.620 being put up in asylum hotels,

00:04:27.020 whatever you want to call them,

00:04:27.840 migrant hotels,

00:04:29.160 being treated very well,

00:04:30.900 having a lifestyle that may be significantly better,

00:04:33.940 actually,

00:04:34.500 than a lot of English people

00:04:36.160 who are here completely legally

00:04:37.640 because they're citizens,

00:04:40.000 it's going to cause resentment.

00:04:41.260 And, you know,

00:04:41.700 this, I think,

00:04:42.640 will be way beyond the stage

00:04:43.860 where if you raise concerns about this,

00:04:45.880 you should be worried about being called a racist.

00:04:48.420 It's nothing to do with that.

00:04:49.760 It's just everything to do with managing a border.

00:04:52.320 You know,

00:04:52.460 Ronald Reagan,

00:04:53.200 as he once said,

00:04:54.300 if you don't have a secure border,

00:04:56.200 you don't have a country.

00:04:57.680 And we don't have one.

00:04:58.760 And then you add the ridiculously huge number of people

00:05:02.580 we've allowed to come in legally,

00:05:04.960 you know,

00:05:05.140 escalating to nearly a million people

00:05:07.080 a couple of years ago in one year,

00:05:08.960 net migration,

00:05:10.480 to a country which is already seeing

00:05:12.560 incredible infrastructure problems

00:05:14.960 with the NHS,

00:05:16.440 with education and so on.

00:05:18.180 It is not surprising

00:05:19.520 that people are getting angry.

00:05:21.720 The question is,

00:05:22.440 what do we do about that?

00:05:23.840 How do you stop rioting?

00:05:25.760 How do you stop protests getting out of hand?

00:05:27.700 And the answer is,

00:05:29.100 the government has to get a grip of this problem.

00:05:31.420 They have to secure our border

00:05:33.060 and they have to have a better immigration system,

00:05:36.900 which means we get people coming in

00:05:38.680 in a more regulated manner

00:05:39.960 and we're not putting enormous extra pressure

00:05:42.620 onto our public services,

00:05:44.780 which they cannot currently sustain.

00:05:47.180 And I think you make a good point

00:05:48.880 about the economic realities,

00:05:50.300 which is the economy is basically stagnated

00:05:52.280 since the financial crisis on a per capita basis.

00:05:55.060 Things are not getting better for people.

00:05:56.340 But I think we're beyond that now, Piers,

00:05:59.100 because my sense of it is,

00:06:01.380 it's not just the sense of,

00:06:03.220 you know, the government's giving people

00:06:04.720 who have come here illegally

00:06:07.100 a better deal than us.

00:06:08.820 They're getting paid for that.

00:06:09.700 That's obviously frustrating.

00:06:11.640 There's also a safety issue now

00:06:13.360 that's rising increasingly.

00:06:14.860 People feel that their children

00:06:16.480 are not safe in their own community.

00:06:18.300 And when that happens,

00:06:19.400 we saw at one of these protests,

00:06:20.720 a woman who was holding up a sign saying,

00:06:22.320 I'm not far right.

00:06:23.120 I just care about my children

00:06:24.300 or something along those lines.

00:06:26.700 And that's why I'm really,

00:06:28.540 really concerned about the direction of travel,

00:06:30.640 because I don't think it's people

00:06:32.180 who care about illegal immigration anymore

00:06:34.560 who are protesting.

00:06:35.820 It's the ordinary person.

00:06:37.780 Yeah, well,

00:06:38.140 crime has been a massive rising problem

00:06:41.600 in Britain now for a number of years.

00:06:44.020 London feels increasingly lawless.

00:06:45.960 The number of friends of mine

00:06:47.220 who've known people

00:06:48.680 who've been sitting in cafes,

00:06:50.440 literally a friend of mine,

00:06:51.320 and her sister was in a cafe back from Dubai

00:06:53.520 for three hours,

00:06:55.300 sitting in a cafe in central London.

00:06:57.100 And one of these bike thieves

00:06:58.600 just rampaged through,

00:07:01.060 got off the bike,

00:07:01.880 ran in,

00:07:02.480 grabbed her phone off in the cafe

00:07:04.500 and took it off, right?

00:07:06.140 Now, anyone who tried to report

00:07:07.680 a phone theft to the police

00:07:08.940 knows nothing happens,

00:07:10.620 even when you have the tracker on it

00:07:12.200 and you can tell them

00:07:13.080 exactly where your phone is.

00:07:14.600 The police do not have the resource

00:07:16.760 or the inclination

00:07:17.960 to go and do anything about that.

00:07:19.580 And it reminds me of when Rudy Giuliani

00:07:21.260 became mayor of New York,

00:07:22.900 probably went a bit bonkers,

00:07:24.520 but he had the broken windows policy,

00:07:26.580 which was a very good policy.

00:07:28.060 It means if there's a broken window,

00:07:29.440 you fix it because you sent a message,

00:07:31.220 we care about the little stuff

00:07:32.540 when it comes to crime.

00:07:34.120 I think we've lost that

00:07:35.660 in many parts of the country

00:07:37.780 and in particular in London.

00:07:39.720 It just feels dangerous.

00:07:41.580 You know,

00:07:41.800 I walk around a lot of other cities.

00:07:43.080 I was in Riyadh.

00:07:44.380 I was in Qatar.

00:07:46.020 I was in Dubai.

00:07:47.300 I've been in even New York.

00:07:48.780 You know,

00:07:49.420 I would say that it feels here,

00:07:51.380 it feels more to me unsafe

00:07:53.920 than it does even in New York City.

00:07:55.300 I don't know how that's happened,

00:07:57.140 but we have to get a grip of this.

00:07:59.340 And Keir Starmer talks a big game about crime,

00:08:02.480 talks a big game about the games.

00:08:04.980 But, you know,

00:08:05.500 we're seeing pictures of these boats

00:08:07.280 where maybe 30, 40 people are on board.

00:08:11.960 And the bleeding heart liberals,

00:08:14.500 the sort of woke left,

00:08:15.760 will say,

00:08:16.380 well, they're all mothers and children.

00:08:17.660 And you look at the pictures

00:08:19.000 and actually 98% tend to be men

00:08:23.100 aged between about 18 and 35

00:08:25.620 who are clearly coming here

00:08:27.700 in the main as economic migrants.

00:08:30.500 Now, I have nothing wrong

00:08:31.640 with economic migrants,

00:08:33.320 but you should come in legally.

00:08:34.900 When I go to America,

00:08:36.120 where I have a home,

00:08:37.200 I had to go through a process

00:08:38.760 of getting a visa

00:08:39.580 to live and work in America.

00:08:41.540 It's hard.

00:08:42.520 They make it deliberately difficult, right?

00:08:44.060 So I resent the fact

00:08:45.460 that under Biden,

00:08:46.260 10 million people just wandered in

00:08:47.880 illegally over the border

00:08:49.720 without doing any of that.

00:08:50.920 And we should have a tougher system here.

00:08:52.980 But yeah, no,

00:08:53.640 I think it is a number of things

00:08:55.140 that are concerning people.

00:08:57.240 One is they think like

00:08:58.740 the asylum seekers, migrants,

00:09:00.900 and I think most of them

00:09:01.880 are economic migrants,

00:09:02.780 I have to be honest.

00:09:03.860 I don't think many of them now

00:09:05.100 are asylum seekers.

00:09:06.680 Some are,

00:09:07.580 and this country was built

00:09:08.740 on a very proud policy

00:09:10.020 of taking care

00:09:10.840 of genuine asylum seekers,

00:09:12.840 particularly in my view

00:09:13.780 in the last 30 years

00:09:14.680 from war zones

00:09:15.660 where we may have started

00:09:16.720 illegal wars,

00:09:17.680 like Iraq, for example,

00:09:18.880 which I oppose as

00:09:19.700 Editors of the Mirror.

00:09:20.780 So I'm completely in favour

00:09:22.200 of a well-regulated asylum system.

00:09:24.300 But it's so snail-paced slow, right?

00:09:28.360 If you want to have

00:09:29.440 an asylum system

00:09:30.740 which the public will accept

00:09:32.740 and respect,

00:09:34.040 you've got to speed all this up.

00:09:36.060 You can't just leave people

00:09:37.140 in very nice hotels

00:09:38.860 for months,

00:09:40.240 maybe years on end

00:09:41.300 without processing

00:09:42.180 their application

00:09:43.380 when you've got

00:09:44.580 so many people

00:09:45.500 who can barely afford

00:09:46.560 to feed their kids.

00:09:47.560 It's obviously going

00:09:48.380 to create resentment.

00:09:49.540 And then if some of them

00:09:50.260 then commit crimes,

00:09:51.760 then you have the element

00:09:52.580 that you're talking about

00:09:53.540 which is people then

00:09:54.720 start to feel like

00:09:55.540 their kids aren't safe

00:09:56.540 if they live near these hotels.

00:09:58.340 And some of that

00:09:59.000 may be unfair.

00:10:00.140 Some of it,

00:10:00.700 as we know before

00:10:01.540 from the Stockport riots,

00:10:02.960 a lot of misinformation

00:10:03.900 swirling around.

00:10:05.500 This is an illegal immigrant

00:10:07.580 coming over on a boat.

00:10:08.740 None of that was true.

00:10:10.540 But the damage was done

00:10:11.820 in a flash.

00:10:13.020 That's a separate issue

00:10:13.900 about social media

00:10:14.860 promoting that kind of stuff.

00:10:17.480 But yeah,

00:10:17.940 look,

00:10:18.220 they've got to get a grip of this.

00:10:19.680 You can't talk about

00:10:20.780 we're going to smash the gangs

00:10:22.020 and then actually see

00:10:23.520 the numbers rise.

00:10:24.780 Well,

00:10:24.940 and this speaks to another point,

00:10:26.440 which I think is another thing

00:10:28.260 that has been fanning

00:10:29.120 these flames.

00:10:29.700 And we did see,

00:10:30.520 in my opinion,

00:10:31.120 a lot of this last year

00:10:32.080 where there is the perception

00:10:33.480 at the very least

00:10:34.540 of the fact that

00:10:36.180 a lot of these things

00:10:37.400 are not being properly policed.

00:10:38.740 They're being policed

00:10:39.360 in a very dodgy way.

00:10:40.240 So we saw it in Epping

00:10:41.040 most recently.

00:10:42.300 The police have now admitted

00:10:43.260 that they escorted

00:10:45.120 people who were

00:10:47.320 counter-protesters,

00:10:48.840 some of them masked,

00:10:49.860 to this protest,

00:10:50.840 which then, of course,

00:10:51.560 became violent.

00:10:52.260 And then, of course,

00:10:52.800 who did they arrest?

00:10:53.940 The people who were there

00:10:54.780 protesting originally.

00:10:56.260 So I think there's

00:10:57.180 another risk here.

00:10:57.880 And by the way,

00:10:58.600 the third element of this,

00:11:00.020 which we're not mentioning,

00:11:01.240 but needs to be recorded,

00:11:02.100 what does this do

00:11:03.320 with the far right,

00:11:04.580 the genuine far right?

00:11:05.980 It's going to enable them,

00:11:06.800 obviously.

00:11:07.000 It's going to not only enable them,

00:11:08.360 it will encourage them.

00:11:09.720 And it will probably

00:11:10.880 encourage support for them.

00:11:12.520 You know,

00:11:12.700 I watch someone like

00:11:13.320 Tommy Robinson,

00:11:13.920 he's out there

00:11:14.640 absolutely lapping

00:11:15.720 all this up,

00:11:16.580 this kind of chaos,

00:11:17.620 because it plays

00:11:18.360 right into his narrative

00:11:19.340 that the country

00:11:19.960 is being overtaken

00:11:21.140 in his view

00:11:21.760 by Muslims

00:11:22.800 and will do something

00:11:23.940 about this

00:11:24.420 and by asylum seekers

00:11:25.580 and by illegal immigrants.

00:11:27.180 And I don't like

00:11:28.280 that part of this story either,

00:11:30.340 where people like him

00:11:31.320 get increasing support

00:11:32.860 because people feel

00:11:34.000 that the authorities,

00:11:35.500 the government,

00:11:36.120 the police,

00:11:36.600 and others who are charged

00:11:38.280 by the electorate

00:11:39.540 with sorting these things out

00:11:40.680 in the case of the politicians

00:11:41.620 and with the police

00:11:42.760 they're paid to do a job

00:11:43.780 to protect us

00:11:44.540 are failing in their job.

00:11:46.280 What's your issue

00:11:46.760 with Tommy Robinson, Pierce?

00:11:47.820 Because obviously

00:11:48.620 he's not well liked

00:11:49.800 in the media ecosystem

00:11:51.700 of London.

00:11:54.100 And he's a controversial figure

00:11:55.680 for, you know,

00:11:56.220 he's been involved

00:11:57.140 in street violence

00:11:58.020 and lots of other things.

00:11:59.560 But a lot of people

00:12:00.420 are now saying,

00:12:01.140 and I don't hesitate

00:12:02.500 to say this anymore,

00:12:04.020 a lot of people

00:12:04.540 are now saying

00:12:05.000 he's been proven right

00:12:05.780 about a hell of a lot

00:12:06.440 of things, Pierce.

00:12:07.200 Well, he's certainly

00:12:07.780 not been proven wrong

00:12:09.020 about the grooming gangs.

00:12:10.280 I mean, he was one

00:12:11.300 of the more vocal people

00:12:12.420 about that.

00:12:13.080 There's no question.

00:12:14.640 He's not, as he puts it,

00:12:16.040 the only one

00:12:16.580 that was doing it.

00:12:17.380 There was a very courageous

00:12:18.620 journalist at the Times,

00:12:19.800 who recently died, sadly,

00:12:21.020 who led the way

00:12:22.180 with the mainstream media.

00:12:23.120 So it's not true

00:12:23.620 the mainstream media

00:12:24.460 ignored that story,

00:12:25.760 but there was

00:12:26.300 a collective failure

00:12:27.420 of government,

00:12:28.760 of police,

00:12:29.740 and a lot of the media

00:12:30.880 to actually properly

00:12:32.920 go after that scandal.

00:12:34.400 One of the worst

00:12:35.020 scandals of modern times.

00:12:36.480 So that is clear.

00:12:37.800 And Robinson

00:12:38.220 was right about that.

00:12:39.100 I'm not saying

00:12:39.620 he's wrong about everything.

00:12:41.220 But this guy

00:12:41.920 is not the little

00:12:43.140 Mother Teresa

00:12:44.200 walking around

00:12:45.460 in bobble boots

00:12:46.140 if you'd like everyone

00:12:46.900 in America to believe.

00:12:48.100 And so many of them

00:12:49.120 have fallen

00:12:49.780 for this mythology

00:12:50.620 about Tommy Robinson.

00:12:52.420 A, his name

00:12:53.020 isn't Tommy Robinson.

00:12:53.980 Probably should send

00:12:55.200 the first alarm bell.

00:12:56.460 But he's a convicted

00:12:57.280 football hooligan,

00:12:58.500 convicted fraudster.

00:13:00.360 He's been in jail

00:13:01.940 recently,

00:13:02.560 not because he was

00:13:03.800 being silenced

00:13:04.720 from telling the truth

00:13:06.280 about anything,

00:13:07.020 but because he continued

00:13:08.620 to promote

00:13:09.280 and propagate lies

00:13:10.980 about a young

00:13:12.180 Syrian boy.

00:13:13.420 Right?

00:13:13.960 And so I watch

00:13:15.560 the way he gets

00:13:16.680 lauded in America

00:13:17.740 and I think,

00:13:18.320 this is ridiculous.

00:13:20.000 I've challenged him

00:13:20.840 to come on

00:13:21.240 uncensored again.

00:13:21.980 We had a fiery debate

00:13:22.860 on Good Morning Britain

00:13:23.700 many years ago

00:13:24.900 in which he came on

00:13:25.840 and waved the Quran,

00:13:27.260 which I thought

00:13:27.820 was pathetic

00:13:28.560 and told him so

00:13:29.660 to his face.

00:13:30.640 So far,

00:13:31.220 he's ducked me.

00:13:32.240 And I think it's because

00:13:33.000 he knows I see through

00:13:33.900 a lot of it.

00:13:34.800 And if he wants to come on

00:13:36.020 and he wants to have

00:13:37.140 a proper sit down

00:13:38.000 with me,

00:13:38.700 then we can get into

00:13:39.520 exactly why he's

00:13:40.460 just been in prison.

00:13:41.560 Because it's got nothing

00:13:42.420 to do with what he says

00:13:43.460 he's been a victim of,

00:13:46.500 which is the establishment

00:13:47.380 trying to silence him.

00:13:48.360 No,

00:13:49.320 you lied.

00:13:50.420 You got caught lying.

00:13:51.620 You were told

00:13:52.020 if you lied again,

00:13:52.760 you'd go to prison

00:13:53.340 for contempt of court.

00:13:54.420 You lied again.

00:13:55.640 You made a film.

00:13:56.800 You promoted it.

00:13:57.820 You came over

00:13:58.340 and promoted it.

00:13:59.380 And you therefore

00:14:00.600 were found guilty

00:14:01.240 of contempt of court,

00:14:02.200 my sunshine.

00:14:03.000 So that's what

00:14:03.760 actually happened.

00:14:05.100 I can see you

00:14:06.000 trying to wind them up

00:14:06.820 to come on here.

00:14:07.540 So if Tommy Robinson

00:14:08.840 has the guts,

00:14:10.180 or Stephen Yaxley

00:14:12.380 as I prefer to call him,

00:14:13.480 because that was a name

00:14:14.060 he actually was given

00:14:15.060 when he was born,

00:14:16.240 then okay,

00:14:17.120 let's sit over

00:14:18.000 to each other.

00:14:18.460 Tommy,

00:14:18.800 me and you,

00:14:19.500 you're not Tommy,

00:14:20.260 but Tommy,

00:14:20.900 me and you,

00:14:21.880 and we can have

00:14:22.200 a proper frank debate

00:14:23.020 because I would actually

00:14:24.160 be quite happy

00:14:24.820 to say to him,

00:14:25.620 on this I think you're right,

00:14:27.080 on that you're right,

00:14:28.100 and on this you're wholly wrong.

00:14:29.840 And I do think

00:14:30.640 that a lot of his view

00:14:31.920 of the Muslim population

00:14:33.380 in this country

00:14:33.940 is driven

00:14:34.960 by genuine Islamophobia.

00:14:37.140 I think he hates Muslims.

00:14:38.440 If he wants to come on

00:14:39.280 and persuade me he doesn't,

00:14:40.500 absolutely no problem.

00:14:41.680 But I'll remind him

00:14:42.460 of all the things

00:14:43.000 he's said and done.

00:14:44.260 He's coming on the show shortly.

00:14:45.860 On yours?

00:14:46.380 Yes.

00:14:46.680 Your little bottle job.

00:14:48.180 So that's about

00:14:48.920 interview number six

00:14:50.740 Tommy Robinson you've done

00:14:52.460 since you've said,

00:14:53.380 yeah,

00:14:53.580 let's do it,

00:14:54.220 Piers.

00:14:54.460 Yeah,

00:14:54.640 I'm waiting.

00:14:55.620 I'm still waiting,

00:14:56.460 sir.

00:14:56.540 Not to rub it in,

00:14:57.140 but I know.

00:14:57.380 Still waiting.

00:14:57.980 Okay.

00:14:58.980 Look,

00:14:59.580 when we're talking

00:15:00.200 about the migrant hotels,

00:15:01.520 there's one question

00:15:03.280 that repeatedly comes to my mind.

00:15:05.120 This is a lightning rod issue

00:15:06.620 and the reason

00:15:07.000 it's a lightning rod issue

00:15:08.020 is because it sums up

00:15:09.220 a lot of people's

00:15:10.460 anger and frustration

00:15:11.260 with the country

00:15:12.180 and the way the country

00:15:12.960 is run.

00:15:13.960 So here's the question.

00:15:15.800 Why hasn't it been sorted out?

00:15:18.100 Well,

00:15:18.580 government.

00:15:19.560 All roads lead to government.

00:15:21.600 You know,

00:15:21.780 I remember when

00:15:22.400 Tony Blair's government

00:15:23.260 swept into power

00:15:24.040 in 97

00:15:25.540 and they said

00:15:26.960 things can only get better

00:15:28.340 and they did.

00:15:30.040 Right?

00:15:30.280 I mean,

00:15:30.420 for the first term

00:15:31.160 it was incredibly successful.

00:15:33.000 Tony Blair and Gordon Brown

00:15:34.300 and a very competent cabinet

00:15:35.600 actually

00:15:36.040 really did hit the ground running.

00:15:37.780 They had many years

00:15:38.560 in the wilderness

00:15:39.000 to prepare for it

00:15:39.900 and they had many plans

00:15:41.320 and they hit the ground running.

00:15:42.400 Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

00:15:44.160 Things got better.

00:15:45.140 It's why Tony Blair

00:15:45.860 got re-elected two more times.

00:15:47.960 Keir Starmer

00:15:48.640 got into power

00:15:50.200 after, again,

00:15:50.820 a long period

00:15:51.360 in the wilderness for Labour

00:15:52.280 and rather than tell us

00:15:54.060 things are going to get better

00:15:54.920 he actually said

00:15:56.040 things are going to get worse.

00:15:57.280 Now, I personally...

00:15:58.080 He was right.

00:15:59.660 You can't blame him

00:16:00.580 for accuracy

00:16:01.100 but it was hardly

00:16:02.260 the most encouraging message

00:16:03.460 to give the people

00:16:04.300 which is

00:16:04.700 we know it's been really rough

00:16:06.560 for a long time

00:16:07.520 under the Tories.

00:16:08.280 14 years of hell

00:16:09.480 blah, blah, blah.

00:16:10.320 So the good news is

00:16:11.260 we're going to make it worse

00:16:12.440 before it gets any better.

00:16:13.980 Terrible messaging.

00:16:15.340 Then you had all the things

00:16:16.460 which I think

00:16:17.060 smack of politics

00:16:17.980 of envy, right?

00:16:19.260 Putting VAT

00:16:19.980 on private schools

00:16:21.560 with the assumption

00:16:22.660 that everyone

00:16:23.240 that sends their kid

00:16:24.060 to a private school

00:16:24.760 is rich.

00:16:25.620 I went to a prep school

00:16:26.900 until I was 13

00:16:27.680 and then my parents

00:16:28.880 only had enough money

00:16:30.140 really at any time

00:16:31.360 to send two of the four kids

00:16:32.800 to private system

00:16:34.160 and the other times

00:16:36.520 we had to do

00:16:37.620 state system.

00:16:38.980 So we all did both, right?

00:16:41.660 And what that showed me

00:16:43.900 was that

00:16:44.320 there are a lot of people

00:16:45.540 like my parents

00:16:46.220 who scrimped and stayed.

00:16:47.140 They work seven days a week

00:16:48.120 running a country pub

00:16:48.960 and put all their spare money

00:16:50.740 into giving their kids

00:16:51.700 the best education

00:16:52.560 that they could afford.

00:16:54.180 And I applaud them for that

00:16:55.620 and I applaud all parents

00:16:56.620 like that.

00:16:57.020 This idea that everyone

00:16:58.020 who sends their kids

00:16:58.700 to a prep school

00:16:59.340 or a public school

00:17:00.200 is stinking rich

00:17:01.120 is bullshit.

00:17:02.780 And that creates

00:17:03.340 what I could

00:17:03.940 it's the politics of envy

00:17:05.060 and it would create

00:17:05.760 it creates a lot of resentment.

00:17:07.560 It also

00:17:07.940 as Greece discovered

00:17:09.260 when they tried to do this

00:17:10.520 after about six months

00:17:12.300 they did a complete reversal

00:17:13.360 because two things happened.

00:17:14.700 One

00:17:15.020 a lot of the

00:17:15.720 private schools shut down

00:17:17.040 because they simply

00:17:18.320 couldn't afford

00:17:18.880 the extra burden

00:17:20.320 of this taxation

00:17:21.300 and the parents

00:17:22.460 were putting their kids out

00:17:23.280 and all the kids

00:17:24.200 were then put into

00:17:25.020 the state system

00:17:25.660 which swapped the state system.

00:17:27.080 So on every level

00:17:28.000 it failed.

00:17:28.660 That will happen here.

00:17:29.540 We're already seeing

00:17:30.400 private schools shut down.

00:17:31.980 We're already seeing

00:17:32.880 some of the state schools

00:17:33.660 getting swamped

00:17:34.440 by people who

00:17:35.260 no longer have

00:17:35.940 their ability

00:17:36.860 or funds

00:17:37.440 to get a private school.

00:17:38.480 So I hate that stuff.

00:17:39.980 I also hate the U-turns

00:17:41.540 and the constant pledges

00:17:43.000 which never get met.

00:17:44.600 Right?

00:17:45.280 To make so many U-turns

00:17:47.280 in your first year

00:17:48.080 almost unprecedented

00:17:49.440 for this government

00:17:50.200 what does that send?

00:17:51.520 It sends a message

00:17:52.260 of a ship

00:17:54.280 where the captain

00:17:54.960 isn't sure

00:17:55.600 where he's sailing.

00:17:57.480 Right?

00:17:57.660 So if you say

00:17:58.940 that's our course

00:18:00.120 the leaders

00:18:01.600 I most admire

00:18:02.420 in history

00:18:03.000 here, America

00:18:04.020 wherever

00:18:04.320 they set their course

00:18:05.600 they thought about it

00:18:07.020 they set their course

00:18:08.380 they stick to their course

00:18:09.840 even through choppy waters.

00:18:11.420 Maggie Thatcher

00:18:11.920 was a good example

00:18:12.700 of that.

00:18:13.960 But with Keir Starmer

00:18:14.880 again

00:18:15.460 I like him personally

00:18:16.760 I think he's a smart guy

00:18:18.020 you know

00:18:18.640 he's risen to the top

00:18:19.700 of two incredible professions

00:18:21.420 both in

00:18:22.120 Director of Public Prosecutions

00:18:23.760 and Prime Minister.

00:18:24.780 Amazing from

00:18:25.580 where he came

00:18:26.400 such humble background

00:18:27.360 to get what he's done.

00:18:28.460 Amazing achievements.

00:18:29.720 But I saw him

00:18:30.320 at a party recently

00:18:31.040 I just said

00:18:31.480 you know

00:18:31.640 you've got to stop the U-turns.

00:18:33.260 You've got to work out

00:18:34.280 what you're going to do

00:18:35.000 and you've got to stick with it.

00:18:36.380 And you can't be

00:18:37.040 brushed off

00:18:37.880 by media criticism

00:18:40.840 or anything else

00:18:41.520 or by the hard left

00:18:42.860 in your party

00:18:43.660 holding you to ransom.

00:18:45.280 And I said

00:18:45.700 and stop the pledges.

00:18:47.540 I mean there are

00:18:48.280 about 13 pledges now

00:18:49.820 Labour

00:18:50.240 most of which

00:18:50.960 are either

00:18:51.500 so ridiculously easy

00:18:53.340 that obviously

00:18:54.040 they're going to be

00:18:54.700 able to achieve them

00:18:55.440 or they're obviously

00:18:56.540 not going to be able

00:18:57.220 to achieve them

00:18:57.620 in most cases.

00:18:58.680 Does anyone think

00:18:59.420 Labour are going to

00:19:00.040 actually build

00:19:00.640 one and a half

00:19:01.320 million new homes

00:19:02.640 in this term?

00:19:04.280 No.

00:19:05.020 They don't believe that.

00:19:06.600 It's bullshit.

00:19:07.620 And I told them

00:19:08.180 I called them out

00:19:08.820 on question time

00:19:09.800 when they first said it.

00:19:11.080 I said to West Trading

00:19:11.720 I'll bet you now

00:19:12.820 a thousand quid

00:19:13.460 to charity

00:19:13.920 or ten thousand

00:19:14.760 whatever you want to do.

00:19:16.080 I said you're not

00:19:16.640 going to achieve that

00:19:17.240 so why pledge it?

00:19:18.720 So I think that

00:19:19.500 when you have a government

00:19:20.740 that comes in

00:19:21.820 with a massive majority

00:19:23.700 and all they do

00:19:25.520 in their first year

00:19:26.240 is U-turns

00:19:27.180 and make pledges

00:19:28.640 we know they can't keep

00:19:29.740 that does not

00:19:30.560 do anything

00:19:31.520 but reduce confidence

00:19:33.040 and when you have

00:19:33.660 reduced confidence

00:19:34.480 everything flows

00:19:35.920 from that

00:19:36.400 in a negative way.

00:19:37.660 I quite agree with you

00:19:38.520 and it's also

00:19:39.340 you look at the way

00:19:40.300 that they've been

00:19:40.800 dealing with the French

00:19:41.740 it's

00:19:42.160 we give them

00:19:42.720 over half a billion

00:19:43.620 quid a year

00:19:44.180 to sort this problem out

00:19:45.340 I don't see the French

00:19:46.560 doing a great deal

00:19:47.460 if I'm being honest.

00:19:48.020 They're doing

00:19:48.500 the square root

00:19:49.940 of fuck all.

00:19:51.480 Right?

00:19:52.160 Let's be clear

00:19:52.820 this small boats

00:19:53.980 problem

00:19:54.400 can be fixed

00:19:55.600 by the French

00:19:56.300 it can only be

00:19:57.440 fixed by the French

00:19:58.260 there are all sorts

00:19:59.320 of maritime laws

00:20:00.300 and once these boats

00:20:01.660 get into the sea

00:20:02.580 it's incredibly

00:20:03.560 difficult then

00:20:04.360 but at the French side

00:20:06.260 that's where

00:20:06.680 they're getting on them

00:20:07.440 that's where

00:20:07.940 the gangs are

00:20:08.840 so you've got

00:20:10.100 to get tough

00:20:10.700 with Macron

00:20:11.120 way tougher

00:20:11.880 than we'll be

00:20:12.460 you've got to say

00:20:13.560 to him

00:20:13.860 I mean

00:20:14.220 again

00:20:14.860 what would Trump do?

00:20:15.780 He would tariff

00:20:16.500 the hell out of them

00:20:17.100 until they sorted it

00:20:18.540 and they would sort it

00:20:19.500 Yeah

00:20:20.520 You've got to treat him

00:20:21.660 like projectors

00:20:22.440 Yeah

00:20:23.100 Give him a good slap

00:20:24.280 There's something powerful

00:20:26.640 about going back

00:20:27.560 to first principles

00:20:28.600 especially when it comes

00:20:30.100 to thinking about

00:20:30.760 politics and liberty

00:20:31.780 The Federalist Papers

00:20:33.320 do just that

00:20:34.360 They lay out

00:20:35.260 the original arguments

00:20:36.420 behind the US Constitution

00:20:37.780 written by people

00:20:38.980 who had just won

00:20:39.800 a revolution

00:20:40.380 and were trying

00:20:41.360 to build something better

00:20:42.900 Hillsdale College's

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00:20:51.480 and Jay

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00:20:54.060 and freedom

00:20:54.680 and why their ideas

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00:22:46.100 now

00:22:46.700 What's been very

00:22:48.860 interesting

00:22:49.240 watching your

00:22:50.040 journey

00:22:50.440 Piers

00:22:50.720 as we move

00:22:51.200 on to talk

00:22:51.640 about Israel

00:22:52.160 is

00:22:52.560 when October

00:22:54.260 7th happened

00:22:55.000 you were a

00:22:55.880 defender of

00:22:56.400 Israel's rights

00:22:57.000 to defend

00:22:58.540 itself

00:22:59.040 and the war

00:22:59.960 in Gaza

00:23:00.400 and your

00:23:01.080 position has

00:23:01.960 changed

00:23:02.500 the longer

00:23:03.060 the war

00:23:03.660 has been

00:23:04.000 conducted

00:23:04.480 Why is that?

00:23:06.040 Because I think

00:23:06.460 what's going on

00:23:07.080 now in Gaza

00:23:07.660 is utterly

00:23:08.360 unconscionable

00:23:09.160 I think it

00:23:10.080 has nothing

00:23:10.580 to do with

00:23:11.100 the original

00:23:11.580 war aims

00:23:12.520 that they stated

00:23:13.380 which were to

00:23:14.320 get the hostages

00:23:14.980 back and to

00:23:15.960 eliminate Hamas

00:23:16.900 Neither of those

00:23:17.880 things have happened

00:23:18.660 Neither of those

00:23:19.540 things are looking

00:23:20.320 likely to happen

00:23:21.220 What is happening?

00:23:22.960 Gaza is being

00:23:23.620 completely destroyed

00:23:24.800 I mean 70%

00:23:26.040 has already been

00:23:26.620 destroyed

00:23:27.020 The population

00:23:28.500 has been crammed

00:23:29.360 into various

00:23:30.060 small areas now

00:23:31.020 and even as they

00:23:32.360 queue for food

00:23:33.220 on a daily basis

00:23:34.820 they're getting

00:23:35.420 shot dead

00:23:36.040 and the IDF

00:23:37.480 every time

00:23:38.040 is 20, 30, 40

00:23:39.200 people

00:23:39.720 queuing desperately

00:23:40.800 for food

00:23:41.460 All they say is

00:23:42.940 A we're giving

00:23:43.600 them loads of food

00:23:44.380 so why are

00:23:45.100 thousands of people

00:23:45.780 stampeding for food

00:23:47.360 if they're so

00:23:48.080 overfed

00:23:48.720 and secondly

00:23:49.920 they say

00:23:51.080 well

00:23:51.620 we just fired

00:23:53.100 warning shots

00:23:53.880 well we had a

00:23:55.800 couple of people

00:23:56.340 threaten us

00:23:56.960 we've launched

00:23:57.980 an inquiry

00:23:58.600 we're doing

00:23:59.360 an investigation

00:24:00.080 it's a familiar

00:24:01.060 pattern

00:24:01.360 I got all the

00:24:02.800 answers to all

00:24:03.660 of these incidents

00:24:04.400 at the aid

00:24:05.340 queues

00:24:06.020 and it was

00:24:07.440 very damning

00:24:08.680 when I read it

00:24:09.180 out to one of

00:24:09.760 the pro

00:24:10.140 Israeli guests

00:24:11.100 I had

00:24:11.500 so I think

00:24:13.120 that you should

00:24:13.940 believe people

00:24:14.540 when they say

00:24:15.100 what their

00:24:15.500 intent is

00:24:16.120 Smodrich

00:24:17.120 in the Israeli

00:24:17.940 government

00:24:18.320 incredibly far

00:24:19.360 right

00:24:19.620 along with

00:24:20.960 Ben Givir

00:24:21.520 and I think

00:24:22.160 Ned and Yahu

00:24:22.660 has gone this

00:24:23.140 way too

00:24:23.500 he's been

00:24:23.780 influenced by

00:24:24.300 them in a

00:24:25.020 very very

00:24:25.640 damaging way

00:24:26.860 I think that

00:24:28.000 he said about

00:24:28.620 three weeks

00:24:29.120 ago that the

00:24:30.160 plan was to

00:24:30.940 cleanse Gaza

00:24:31.840 of all

00:24:32.400 Palestinians

00:24:32.920 right

00:24:33.920 that's clearly

00:24:34.500 what they're

00:24:34.960 trying to do

00:24:35.460 now

00:24:35.700 that's a war

00:24:36.740 crime

00:24:37.080 that's ethnic

00:24:37.800 cleansing

00:24:38.200 so yeah

00:24:39.060 I absolutely

00:24:39.940 support Israel

00:24:41.240 at the start

00:24:42.100 of this

00:24:42.460 with their

00:24:43.240 not just

00:24:44.020 right but

00:24:44.540 their duty

00:24:45.160 to defend

00:24:46.200 Israelis from

00:24:46.980 any further

00:24:47.540 attacks by

00:24:48.120 Hamas

00:24:48.440 unquestionably

00:24:49.660 what happened

00:24:50.480 on October

00:24:50.760 is one of

00:24:51.180 the worst

00:24:51.540 things I've

00:24:52.480 ever had to

00:24:53.580 report on in

00:24:54.340 my life as a

00:24:55.120 journalist

00:24:55.420 but that does

00:24:56.700 not give them

00:24:57.440 the license

00:24:58.660 now where we

00:25:00.320 are right now

00:25:01.180 to just continue

00:25:02.460 slaughtering so

00:25:03.620 many children

00:25:04.240 in particular

00:25:04.820 on a daily

00:25:06.420 basis as they

00:25:08.040 go after

00:25:08.640 I don't know

00:25:10.320 how many

00:25:10.620 Hamas are

00:25:11.040 left I mean

00:25:11.340 the American

00:25:11.840 intelligence says

00:25:12.600 for every one

00:25:13.380 they're killing

00:25:13.780 there are five

00:25:14.360 more coming

00:25:15.340 through with the

00:25:15.920 same ideology

00:25:16.640 how could it

00:25:17.580 not be that

00:25:18.240 I mean given

00:25:19.380 the scale of

00:25:20.580 carnage in

00:25:22.080 Gaza right now

00:25:23.040 how do they

00:25:24.060 think Israel

00:25:25.020 the government

00:25:25.680 the government

00:25:26.220 not the people

00:25:26.940 but how does

00:25:28.320 the Israeli

00:25:28.720 government think

00:25:29.400 this is going

00:25:29.860 to make anything

00:25:30.740 safer for Israelis

00:25:31.740 it's not

00:25:32.700 is it going to

00:25:33.460 make life safer

00:25:34.180 for Jews around

00:25:34.900 the world

00:25:35.280 it's not

00:25:36.160 it's going to

00:25:36.720 make it more

00:25:37.220 dangerous

00:25:38.040 have they got

00:25:38.680 the hostages

00:25:39.220 out no

00:25:39.800 is the

00:25:40.480 indiscriminate

00:25:41.260 bombing that's

00:25:42.220 going on day

00:25:42.920 after day

00:25:43.460 after day

00:25:43.980 after day

00:25:44.600 is that likely

00:25:45.740 to end up

00:25:46.420 with other

00:25:46.840 hostages of

00:25:47.800 the remaining

00:25:48.400 hostages who

00:25:49.320 are alive

00:25:49.680 and of course

00:25:50.040 they should be

00:25:50.420 released

00:25:50.780 but we're dealing

00:25:51.380 with a terrorist

00:25:51.900 group

00:25:52.240 but are they

00:25:53.160 going to be

00:25:53.660 more at risk

00:25:54.640 from this

00:25:55.280 relentless bombing

00:25:56.520 that's going

00:25:57.300 on or not

00:25:58.180 I would say

00:25:58.700 they are

00:25:59.140 so I just

00:26:00.680 put it all

00:26:01.120 together

00:26:01.380 and I can't

00:26:01.900 defend this

00:26:02.440 and I've

00:26:03.820 noticed

00:26:04.200 we're having

00:26:05.400 more and more

00:26:05.960 trouble getting

00:26:06.660 pro-Israeli

00:26:07.940 voices on

00:26:09.280 who are

00:26:09.940 prepared to

00:26:10.500 actually

00:26:10.980 unreservedly

00:26:13.240 defend this

00:26:13.860 there are some

00:26:14.820 but a lot of

00:26:15.720 the ones that

00:26:16.220 were very vocal

00:26:16.860 to start with

00:26:17.540 no longer want

00:26:18.320 to do it

00:26:18.780 and I just

00:26:19.920 wonder what

00:26:20.600 the average

00:26:21.280 Israeli

00:26:21.860 thinks about

00:26:22.880 what is

00:26:23.220 happening in

00:26:23.700 their name

00:26:24.180 because if

00:26:25.600 this was

00:26:25.880 happening here

00:26:26.560 I can assure

00:26:27.560 you the

00:26:28.340 British people

00:26:28.960 would not put

00:26:29.600 up with it

00:26:30.040 they just

00:26:30.880 would not

00:26:31.300 accept this

00:26:31.740 being done

00:26:32.100 in their

00:26:32.360 name

00:26:32.620 it is

00:26:33.280 unconscionable

00:26:34.020 the scale

00:26:34.640 of what's

00:26:34.980 going on

00:26:35.360 there

00:26:35.520 they are

00:26:36.140 destroying

00:26:36.780 the whole

00:26:37.660 of Gaza

00:26:38.140 and they

00:26:38.940 want to

00:26:39.360 displace

00:26:39.820 every

00:26:40.220 Palestinian

00:26:40.740 into

00:26:41.440 neighbouring

00:26:41.900 Arab

00:26:42.120 countries

00:26:42.600 I mean

00:26:43.900 I don't

00:26:44.380 know what

00:26:44.640 you two

00:26:44.920 think of

00:26:45.300 that

00:26:45.500 but are

00:26:45.880 you

00:26:46.080 comfortable

00:26:46.720 with them

00:26:47.180 doing that

00:26:47.580 well

00:26:48.560 I'm not

00:26:49.960 comfortable

00:26:50.340 with the

00:26:51.140 scale of

00:26:51.840 the casualties

00:26:53.500 that are

00:26:54.060 happening

00:26:54.380 I don't

00:26:54.880 think anybody

00:26:55.360 is comfortable

00:26:55.860 with that

00:26:56.280 it's obviously

00:26:57.240 awful

00:26:58.300 I guess

00:26:59.140 the question

00:26:59.580 my question

00:27:00.260 to you

00:27:00.540 is

00:27:00.700 what should

00:27:01.400 Israel

00:27:01.700 do

00:27:02.100 in this

00:27:03.100 instance

00:27:03.480 because you

00:27:04.000 have Hamas

00:27:04.720 who are a

00:27:05.560 terrorist

00:27:05.840 organisation

00:27:06.680 who are

00:27:07.460 fundamentalist

00:27:08.240 in their

00:27:08.540 nature

00:27:08.880 who will

00:27:09.540 not

00:27:09.840 capitulate

00:27:10.480 who will

00:27:10.880 not

00:27:11.180 surrender

00:27:11.620 who are

00:27:12.240 very happy

00:27:12.960 and delighted

00:27:13.820 let's be

00:27:14.260 honest

00:27:14.540 to put

00:27:15.280 their own

00:27:15.880 civilians

00:27:16.600 and their

00:27:17.620 own family

00:27:18.200 members in

00:27:18.700 fact in

00:27:19.080 the way

00:27:19.360 of fire

00:27:19.860 so you

00:27:20.560 have an

00:27:21.000 enemy

00:27:21.260 that will

00:27:21.940 not surrender

00:27:22.520 at any

00:27:22.900 point

00:27:23.300 who will

00:27:24.200 always remain

00:27:24.940 a direct

00:27:25.400 threat to

00:27:25.920 you

00:27:26.120 so what

00:27:26.960 should Israel

00:27:27.520 do in

00:27:27.920 that instance

00:27:28.540 look at what

00:27:29.500 they did

00:27:29.720 with Hezbollah

00:27:30.280 very similar

00:27:31.780 ideology to

00:27:32.560 Hamas

00:27:32.960 what do they

00:27:33.980 do with

00:27:34.200 Hezbollah

00:27:34.540 they planned

00:27:35.200 meticulously

00:27:35.940 one of the

00:27:36.880 most brilliant

00:27:37.640 strategic military

00:27:38.660 campaigns against

00:27:40.040 a terror group

00:27:40.580 ever seen

00:27:41.120 where for many

00:27:42.520 years they

00:27:43.360 formulated a plan

00:27:44.240 to get pages

00:27:45.920 into their

00:27:46.500 hands and other

00:27:47.180 devices which

00:27:48.040 exploded at a

00:27:49.020 signal and

00:27:49.940 they took out

00:27:51.060 3,000 of them

00:27:52.180 unbelievably

00:27:52.880 surgical in

00:27:54.380 its precision

00:27:55.660 look at what

00:27:56.760 they did

00:27:57.000 with Iran

00:27:57.460 they didn't

00:27:58.280 just indiscriminately

00:27:59.120 start bombing

00:27:59.840 Tehran

00:28:00.640 they again

00:28:01.900 had a very

00:28:02.680 well planned

00:28:03.580 out campaign

00:28:05.040 short in

00:28:06.380 Iran against

00:28:07.860 the nuclear

00:28:08.600 scientists

00:28:09.060 against the

00:28:09.520 nuclear program

00:28:10.680 against nuclear

00:28:11.380 science

00:28:11.880 they persuaded

00:28:12.900 the Americans

00:28:13.420 to come in

00:28:14.060 it was all

00:28:14.860 over in 10

00:28:15.340 days

00:28:15.600 everyone was

00:28:16.120 presuming it

00:28:16.640 would be like

00:28:16.980 apocalyptic

00:28:17.540 world war 3

00:28:18.260 never happened

00:28:19.100 so Israel

00:28:20.240 has unbelievable

00:28:21.700 resources

00:28:22.460 militarily

00:28:23.340 intelligence

00:28:24.260 through Mossad

00:28:25.040 and others

00:28:25.440 no one can

00:28:26.620 tell me

00:28:27.220 that any of

00:28:28.820 this makes

00:28:29.260 sense

00:28:29.580 and I'll go

00:28:30.120 back further

00:28:30.860 to the start

00:28:32.140 of all this

00:28:32.520 2005-6

00:28:33.900 when Hamas

00:28:34.440 are given

00:28:34.920 power in

00:28:36.880 Gaza

00:28:38.040 and Israel

00:28:38.960 pulls out

00:28:39.580 from that

00:28:41.240 moment on

00:28:41.920 Israel

00:28:43.100 through Netanyahu

00:28:44.400 funneled

00:28:45.760 billions of

00:28:46.560 dollars to

00:28:47.060 Hamas

00:28:47.500 they used

00:28:49.620 most of that

00:28:50.040 money to

00:28:50.460 build a

00:28:51.180 very sophisticated

00:28:52.460 underground

00:28:53.360 tunnel system

00:28:54.600 for 20

00:28:55.480 years

00:28:55.780 then 3,000

00:28:58.060 of them

00:28:58.600 on October

00:28:59.260 7th

00:28:59.880 pour over

00:29:00.560 the border

00:29:00.960 in three

00:29:01.520 waves

00:29:02.060 over a

00:29:02.880 number of

00:29:03.320 hours

00:29:03.640 they kill

00:29:05.240 1,200

00:29:05.860 they wound

00:29:07.240 nearly 7,000

00:29:08.340 they kidnap

00:29:09.020 over 250

00:29:10.160 how did Mossad

00:29:12.140 not know

00:29:12.600 this was going

00:29:13.160 to happen

00:29:13.480 these are the

00:29:14.580 people that

00:29:15.040 can put

00:29:15.480 3,000 pages

00:29:16.540 into Hezbollah

00:29:17.240 hands

00:29:17.640 these are the

00:29:18.440 people that

00:29:18.760 can be so

00:29:19.280 precise in

00:29:19.880 Iran

00:29:20.180 so no

00:29:21.640 one can

00:29:22.000 tell me

00:29:22.460 that this

00:29:23.060 makes any

00:29:23.900 sense

00:29:24.420 so

00:29:25.260 what are

00:29:25.880 you

00:29:26.000 implying

00:29:26.500 what I'm

00:29:27.300 implying

00:29:27.640 is I

00:29:28.400 think what

00:29:28.840 you're

00:29:29.020 seeing in

00:29:29.480 Gaza

00:29:29.800 is a

00:29:31.440 rage

00:29:32.420 fueled

00:29:33.140 revenge

00:29:34.120 for October

00:29:35.380 the 7th

00:29:36.140 and I think

00:29:36.860 that's exactly

00:29:37.580 what Hamas

00:29:38.260 wanted Israel

00:29:39.200 to do

00:29:39.680 I think

00:29:40.480 they lured

00:29:41.140 Israel's

00:29:41.900 government

00:29:42.240 knowing there

00:29:43.140 were a bunch

00:29:43.520 of very

00:29:44.060 far right

00:29:44.720 hotheads

00:29:45.280 on that

00:29:45.600 government

00:29:46.000 Ben Gavir

00:29:46.920 Smodrich

00:29:47.440 and others

00:29:47.860 I think

00:29:48.520 they deliberately

00:29:49.400 lured them

00:29:50.360 into a trap

00:29:51.280 knowing that

00:29:52.240 their own

00:29:52.740 fighters could

00:29:53.780 hide in the

00:29:54.260 tunnels

00:29:54.540 quite happy

00:29:55.960 as you said

00:29:56.500 despicable terror

00:29:57.280 group

00:29:57.560 to let the

00:29:58.340 civilians get

00:29:59.000 killed in the

00:29:59.720 slaughter

00:30:00.040 which they knew

00:30:00.780 would bring

00:30:01.240 global opprobrium

00:30:02.700 against Israel's

00:30:03.740 government

00:30:04.060 but they lured

00:30:05.160 them in

00:30:05.600 with the scale

00:30:06.340 of what they

00:30:06.740 did

00:30:07.000 and Israel

00:30:08.400 to me

00:30:09.160 this Israeli

00:30:10.140 government

00:30:10.560 has fallen

00:30:11.360 absolutely

00:30:12.040 into the

00:30:12.560 trap

00:30:12.940 of responding

00:30:14.140 in an

00:30:15.180 over emotional

00:30:16.180 rage

00:30:16.800 fueled manner

00:30:17.500 which has

00:30:18.400 now led

00:30:18.880 to indiscriminate

00:30:20.040 endless

00:30:20.560 ongoing

00:30:21.160 carnage

00:30:21.980 which is

00:30:22.580 making Israel

00:30:23.500 more and more

00:30:24.460 hated around

00:30:25.080 the world

00:30:25.540 none of this

00:30:26.580 to me

00:30:27.260 makes any

00:30:28.140 strategic sense

00:30:29.280 in terms of

00:30:30.600 how they could

00:30:31.340 have responded

00:30:31.920 to October the

00:30:32.600 7th

00:30:32.980 and should have

00:30:33.660 responded

00:30:34.100 now I don't

00:30:34.980 have all the

00:30:35.400 answers

00:30:35.860 I've had lots

00:30:37.040 of other people

00:30:37.560 who floated

00:30:38.120 solutions and

00:30:38.880 answers

00:30:39.240 but I do

00:30:40.120 know that

00:30:40.780 there's a lot

00:30:42.480 of will on the

00:30:43.160 part of countries

00:30:43.820 like Saudi Arabia

00:30:44.520 who want to do

00:30:45.480 you know

00:30:46.240 normalization

00:30:46.780 of relations

00:30:47.380 with the

00:30:47.600 Abrahamic

00:30:48.000 cause

00:30:48.200 with countries

00:30:48.860 like Israel

00:30:49.980 but they can't

00:30:50.500 do it when

00:30:50.840 this is going

00:30:51.240 on

00:30:51.500 this is putting

00:30:52.520 back everything

00:30:53.300 and for what

00:30:54.800 what are they

00:30:55.760 actually trying

00:30:56.400 to achieve

00:30:56.880 and then it

00:30:57.300 comes down

00:30:57.740 to are they

00:30:58.680 actually trying

00:30:59.500 to achieve

00:30:59.960 the original

00:31:00.460 aims they set

00:31:01.200 out

00:31:01.420 I would argue

00:31:02.440 as I have

00:31:02.860 done

00:31:03.140 that that's

00:31:03.800 no longer

00:31:04.360 a plausible

00:31:05.380 argument

00:31:06.200 and I think

00:31:07.140 we should

00:31:07.440 take them

00:31:07.860 at what

00:31:08.480 they're saying

00:31:08.980 Smodrich

00:31:09.860 is a finance

00:31:10.820 minister

00:31:11.200 he's not

00:31:11.740 some insignificant

00:31:12.480 member of the

00:31:13.120 government

00:31:13.400 he's a leading

00:31:14.400 driving force

00:31:15.380 he was on

00:31:16.280 camera

00:31:16.660 three weeks

00:31:17.500 ago

00:31:17.740 we want to

00:31:18.400 cleanse

00:31:18.700 Gaza

00:31:19.040 of all

00:31:19.320 Palestinians

00:31:19.800 and if that

00:31:21.260 happens it will

00:31:21.980 be one of the

00:31:22.920 most grotesquable

00:31:23.740 crimes of modern

00:31:24.600 times

00:31:24.940 so the question

00:31:26.380 for all of us

00:31:27.040 is what do we do

00:31:28.180 about this

00:31:28.740 do you stay silent

00:31:30.180 and watch this

00:31:30.780 happen

00:31:31.140 and literally

00:31:32.260 watch

00:31:32.820 Palestinians

00:31:34.120 two million

00:31:34.740 of them

00:31:35.160 expelled

00:31:35.800 from Gaza

00:31:37.340 never to come

00:31:38.720 back

00:31:39.000 once you're

00:31:39.680 gone

00:31:39.880 you're never

00:31:40.240 coming back

00:31:40.860 and Israel

00:31:41.800 to then take

00:31:42.400 over that

00:31:42.840 land

00:31:43.120 is anybody

00:31:43.900 happy with

00:31:44.560 that

00:31:44.780 I'm not

00:31:45.820 the reason

00:31:47.780 I ask you

00:31:48.100 what you're

00:31:48.460 implying

00:31:48.900 is I don't

00:31:49.800 understand

00:31:50.260 the point

00:31:50.740 you're making

00:31:51.140 I've heard

00:31:51.880 a lot of

00:31:52.260 people say

00:31:52.720 this but I

00:31:53.060 don't understand

00:31:53.460 what you mean

00:31:54.360 when you say

00:31:54.980 how come the

00:31:56.080 Mossad

00:31:56.460 didn't know

00:31:57.280 how did they

00:31:57.740 not know

00:31:58.140 but what are

00:31:58.620 you saying

00:31:58.980 I don't

00:31:59.220 understand

00:31:59.480 I'm just

00:31:59.620 asking the

00:32:00.000 question

00:32:00.360 how could

00:32:01.360 the most

00:32:01.680 sophisticated

00:32:02.180 intelligence

00:32:03.100 operation

00:32:03.760 in the

00:32:04.460 world

00:32:04.940 reputedly

00:32:06.200 and I

00:32:07.100 think that's

00:32:07.640 as we've

00:32:08.480 seen from

00:32:08.840 Iran and

00:32:09.460 Hezbollah

00:32:09.880 clearly

00:32:10.880 those are

00:32:12.720 proactive

00:32:13.200 things

00:32:14.000 actually

00:32:14.800 they're

00:32:15.480 very

00:32:15.820 pre-planned

00:32:17.300 things

00:32:17.780 that's fair

00:32:19.160 I'm just

00:32:19.660 trying to

00:32:19.920 understand

00:32:20.160 what you're

00:32:20.380 saying

00:32:20.480 I'm not

00:32:20.840 saying

00:32:21.040 anything

00:32:21.260 I'm just

00:32:21.640 asking

00:32:22.020 a question

00:32:22.560 I'm not

00:32:23.300 saying

00:32:23.840 that they

00:32:24.520 knew

00:32:24.720 anything

00:32:25.160 I'm actually

00:32:26.100 saying

00:32:26.480 that for

00:32:27.320 some

00:32:27.660 inexplicable

00:32:29.020 reason

00:32:29.500 they miss

00:32:30.700 this

00:32:31.100 and one

00:32:31.940 of the

00:32:32.160 reasons

00:32:32.480 that Netanyahu

00:32:33.240 is continuing

00:32:33.960 to prosecute

00:32:34.780 this war

00:32:35.220 in my

00:32:35.560 opinion

00:32:35.880 is because

00:32:36.700 he knows

00:32:37.200 the day

00:32:37.500 of reckoning

00:32:37.940 for him

00:32:38.460 is coming

00:32:39.200 when it's

00:32:39.840 over

00:32:40.160 not just

00:32:41.140 for allowing

00:32:42.180 this to

00:32:42.520 happen on

00:32:43.040 his watch

00:32:43.600 but also

00:32:44.640 for him

00:32:45.120 personally

00:32:45.580 with the

00:32:45.920 corruption

00:32:46.260 charges

00:32:47.280 he's facing

00:32:47.920 in a criminal

00:32:48.520 courtroom

00:32:49.020 so there

00:32:49.700 is no

00:32:50.020 incentive

00:32:50.480 for Netanyahu

00:32:51.160 to end

00:32:51.600 this

00:32:51.860 if anything

00:32:52.680 his popularity

00:32:53.320 with a lot

00:32:54.500 of right

00:32:55.800 wing Israelis

00:32:56.380 his popularity

00:32:58.160 has risen

00:32:58.820 with sections

00:32:59.840 of Israeli

00:33:00.280 community

00:33:00.700 because of

00:33:01.280 the constant

00:33:01.740 warfare

00:33:02.180 but that

00:33:03.160 in itself

00:33:03.580 is an

00:33:03.900 extremely

00:33:04.280 unhealthy

00:33:04.780 drug

00:33:05.240 so I'm

00:33:07.020 not saying

00:33:07.560 for a moment

00:33:08.360 as some

00:33:08.860 conspiracy

00:33:09.300 theories

00:33:09.640 do

00:33:09.800 or Mossad

00:33:10.420 knew

00:33:10.720 anything

00:33:11.040 I'm not

00:33:11.480 saying that

00:33:11.700 for a moment

00:33:12.060 but what a

00:33:13.120 spectacular

00:33:14.160 dropping of

00:33:14.860 the ball

00:33:15.180 right on

00:33:15.940 their doorstep

00:33:16.660 and it's

00:33:17.900 inexplicable

00:33:18.700 they have

00:33:19.600 to explain

00:33:20.160 how they

00:33:20.520 didn't know

00:33:21.020 anything

00:33:21.700 about the

00:33:22.220 tunnel

00:33:22.460 systems

00:33:23.000 or if

00:33:23.600 they did

00:33:24.020 why they

00:33:24.380 didn't

00:33:24.640 realise

00:33:25.040 what the

00:33:25.720 plan

00:33:26.040 was

00:33:26.480 you know

00:33:27.020 there are

00:33:27.340 literally

00:33:27.720 people

00:33:28.120 it's a bit

00:33:28.420 like when

00:33:28.700 9-11

00:33:29.100 happened

00:33:29.480 there were

00:33:30.240 people

00:33:30.540 working at

00:33:31.060 the

00:33:31.180 Pentagon

00:33:31.460 who had

00:33:31.860 one job

00:33:32.500 to think

00:33:33.200 the unthinkable

00:33:33.940 about terror

00:33:34.800 attacks

00:33:35.260 all they had

00:33:35.940 to do

00:33:36.240 right

00:33:37.120 was it

00:33:38.000 that unthinkable

00:33:38.960 that if you

00:33:40.220 knew Hamas

00:33:40.880 were building

00:33:41.440 tunnels

00:33:42.200 they must have

00:33:42.720 done

00:33:42.900 20 years

00:33:43.620 they were

00:33:43.780 building

00:33:44.040 hundreds of

00:33:44.920 miles of

00:33:45.240 tunnels

00:33:45.500 if you knew

00:33:46.360 they were

00:33:46.660 building tunnels

00:33:47.460 that nobody

00:33:48.680 thought

00:33:49.160 well I wonder

00:33:49.880 what they're

00:33:50.240 planning

00:33:50.540 and tried

00:33:51.840 to find

00:33:52.200 out

00:33:52.460 because that's

00:33:52.960 what Mossad

00:33:53.560 are supposed

00:33:54.300 to do

00:33:54.740 so I

00:33:55.960 simply asked

00:33:56.620 the question

00:33:57.100 how did

00:33:57.920 you not

00:33:58.360 know

00:33:58.640 no I

00:33:59.260 think it's

00:33:59.520 a very

00:33:59.880 important

00:34:00.220 question

00:34:00.640 obviously

00:34:01.000 and I'm

00:34:01.360 sure it'll

00:34:01.680 be asked

00:34:02.000 in Israel

00:34:02.360 when the

00:34:02.720 war is

00:34:02.980 over

00:34:03.180 and I

00:34:03.460 you know

00:34:04.020 I think

00:34:04.340 we just

00:34:04.660 had Andrew

00:34:05.060 Fox in

00:34:05.440 here

00:34:05.680 who's a

00:34:06.600 pro-Israel

00:34:07.140 guy saying

00:34:07.800 this war

00:34:08.340 should have

00:34:08.620 ended

00:34:08.900 a few

00:34:09.560 months

00:34:09.800 ago

00:34:09.980 I think

00:34:10.220 there's

00:34:10.400 a growing

00:34:10.840 sentiment

00:34:11.500 I agree

00:34:12.260 with you

00:34:12.600 I agree

00:34:13.020 that there's

00:34:13.420 a growing

00:34:13.680 sentiment

00:34:14.080 but I

00:34:15.360 also think

00:34:15.900 that your

00:34:16.180 point about

00:34:16.600 9-11

00:34:17.080 kind of

00:34:17.500 makes the

00:34:17.840 point that

00:34:18.280 the intelligence

00:34:19.100 operations

00:34:20.280 they only have

00:34:20.780 to be wrong

00:34:21.220 once and

00:34:21.700 then a great

00:34:22.140 disaster happens

00:34:22.900 and we've

00:34:23.320 seen them

00:34:23.660 happen all

00:34:24.120 over the

00:34:24.440 place

00:34:24.700 and they

00:34:24.940 do happen

00:34:25.500 so I

00:34:26.260 don't think

00:34:26.660 it's as

00:34:26.960 unimaginable

00:34:27.940 as you're

00:34:28.640 saying

00:34:28.960 the other

00:34:29.520 thing I

00:34:29.760 wanted to

00:34:30.120 ask you

00:34:30.480 is

00:34:30.600 and I'm

00:34:31.240 it's

00:34:32.480 just

00:34:32.760 we're

00:34:33.200 exploring

00:34:33.540 the arguments

00:34:34.160 why

00:34:34.980 you've

00:34:35.360 used the

00:34:35.700 phrase

00:34:35.900 indiscriminate

00:34:36.920 bombing

00:34:37.300 repeatedly

00:34:38.000 why do

00:34:38.460 you say

00:34:38.720 it's

00:34:38.880 indiscriminate

00:34:39.660 I'll

00:34:39.840 give an

00:34:40.100 example

00:34:40.500 say they

00:34:41.640 get

00:34:44.080 terrorist

00:34:44.480 I saw

00:34:45.440 Dave Smith

00:34:45.960 use this

00:34:46.420 analogy

00:34:46.780 so let

00:34:47.140 me give

00:34:47.380 him

00:34:47.560 the credit

00:34:48.200 for it

00:34:48.720 if somebody

00:34:49.600 murdered one

00:34:50.940 of your

00:34:51.200 family

00:34:51.600 horrible

00:34:53.280 hypothetical

00:34:54.160 let's assume

00:34:54.840 this has

00:34:55.180 happened

00:34:55.480 and you

00:34:56.660 get told

00:34:57.180 that one

00:34:57.480 of the

00:34:57.660 people

00:34:57.960 who was

00:34:58.740 responsible

00:34:59.260 is living

00:35:00.420 in a

00:35:00.840 tower

00:35:01.140 block

00:35:01.540 with 150

00:35:03.020 people in

00:35:03.660 it

00:35:03.840 do you

00:35:05.200 think it's

00:35:05.580 justified

00:35:06.000 to go and

00:35:06.620 blow up

00:35:06.900 the whole

00:35:07.160 tower

00:35:07.400 block

00:35:07.700 and kill

00:35:08.400 149

00:35:09.700 innocent

00:35:10.060 people

00:35:10.500 as you

00:35:11.300 kill

00:35:11.560 one person

00:35:12.600 who is

00:35:12.900 responsible

00:35:13.360 for the

00:35:14.060 loss

00:35:14.300 you

00:35:14.420 suffered

00:35:14.800 there's

00:35:15.600 a

00:35:15.700 calculation

00:35:16.100 in the

00:35:16.660 laws

00:35:16.880 of war

00:35:17.320 where

00:35:17.620 there

00:35:17.900 has

00:35:18.080 got

00:35:18.280 to be

00:35:18.560 some

00:35:18.760 proportionality

00:35:19.740 there's

00:35:20.040 got to be

00:35:20.380 some

00:35:20.560 taking of

00:35:21.040 account

00:35:21.360 do you

00:35:21.640 think

00:35:21.800 there's

00:35:22.440 been

00:35:22.620 any

00:35:22.900 proportionality

00:35:23.660 now

00:35:23.960 in Israel's

00:35:24.540 response

00:35:24.980 1200

00:35:25.960 people

00:35:26.560 got killed

00:35:27.020 we're now

00:35:28.520 up to

00:35:28.980 maybe as

00:35:29.760 many as

00:35:30.060 100,000

00:35:30.880 but with all

00:35:31.600 respect that's

00:35:32.060 a terrible

00:35:32.500 argument

00:35:32.980 that's a

00:35:34.620 terrible

00:35:34.860 argument

00:35:35.080 I don't

00:35:35.300 think it

00:35:35.560 is

00:35:35.700 because way

00:35:36.780 more Germans

00:35:37.340 were killed

00:35:37.800 at the end

00:35:38.140 of World

00:35:38.440 War II

00:35:38.760 than British

00:35:39.140 people were

00:35:39.580 killed

00:35:39.780 and yet

00:35:40.080 we bombed

00:35:40.580 Germany

00:35:40.900 into the

00:35:41.280 ground

00:35:41.540 because we

00:35:42.280 were

00:35:42.520 defeating

00:35:42.960 them

00:35:43.180 I think

00:35:43.800 that is

00:35:44.200 a terrible

00:35:44.560 argument

00:35:44.880 but I'm

00:35:45.380 trying to

00:35:45.660 find out

00:35:46.060 why you

00:35:46.680 say it's

00:35:47.080 indiscriminate

00:35:48.440 indiscriminate

00:35:49.220 means they

00:35:50.000 don't care

00:35:50.760 if they're

00:35:51.600 just bombing

00:35:51.980 a civilian

00:35:52.460 building

00:35:52.800 they're just

00:35:53.120 trying to

00:35:53.400 flatten

00:35:53.680 Gaza

00:35:54.060 that's

00:35:54.720 what you

00:35:54.940 think

00:35:55.080 is

00:35:55.200 happening

00:35:55.540 70%

00:35:56.220 of Gaza

00:35:56.600 has been

00:35:57.140 flattened

00:35:57.900 in what

00:35:58.560 way would

00:35:59.560 you not

00:35:59.920 think that

00:36:00.460 suggests

00:36:01.480 a degree

00:36:02.460 of

00:36:03.860 indiscriminate

00:36:04.700 bombing

00:36:05.020 the reason

00:36:05.900 that people

00:36:06.620 would challenge

00:36:07.420 the idea

00:36:07.840 of it being

00:36:08.240 indiscriminate

00:36:08.760 for example

00:36:09.240 Andrew Fox

00:36:09.840 as I

00:36:10.080 mentioned

00:36:10.580 who has a

00:36:11.220 very nuanced

00:36:11.700 view of

00:36:12.080 this as we

00:36:12.780 found out

00:36:13.280 he was

00:36:13.920 saying that

00:36:14.400 when he

00:36:14.780 was in

00:36:15.280 Gaza

00:36:15.540 what he

00:36:15.980 saw

00:36:16.380 was that

00:36:17.240 Hamas

00:36:17.880 adapted

00:36:18.300 their tactics

00:36:18.940 as the

00:36:19.320 war went

00:36:19.640 on and

00:36:19.920 when they

00:36:20.160 realized

00:36:20.580 that the

00:36:20.900 Israeli

00:36:21.240 IDF

00:36:21.780 was going

00:36:22.220 house to

00:36:22.720 house

00:36:23.020 they then

00:36:23.840 did the

00:36:24.480 evacuation

00:36:25.040 themselves

00:36:25.600 they pulled

00:36:26.060 the civilians

00:36:26.500 out and

00:36:27.140 then booby

00:36:27.600 trapped

00:36:27.880 every single

00:36:28.420 building

00:36:28.760 so the

00:36:29.720 destruction

00:36:30.140 of a lot

00:36:30.600 of buildings

00:36:31.240 is evidence

00:36:32.060 of the fact

00:36:32.620 that a lot

00:36:33.100 of them

00:36:33.300 are booby

00:36:33.660 trapped

00:36:33.960 and that's

00:36:34.460 why they're

00:36:34.780 being destroyed

00:36:35.420 I'm sure

00:36:35.700 some of

00:36:36.060 them were

00:36:36.340 he made

00:36:36.740 the point

00:36:40.580 who have

00:36:40.760 been killed

00:36:41.160 in Gaza

00:36:41.620 which kind

00:36:42.120 of tells

00:36:42.500 you that

00:36:42.800 it's his

00:36:44.040 argument

00:36:44.440 not indiscriminate

00:36:45.740 so that's

00:36:46.080 the only reason

00:36:46.540 I'm asking

00:36:46.980 I've read

00:36:48.740 some of the

00:36:49.200 five six

00:36:49.860 times as

00:36:50.320 many bombs

00:36:51.780 have been

00:36:52.140 dropped in

00:36:52.580 totality

00:36:53.100 than the

00:36:53.680 total power

00:36:54.380 of the

00:36:54.620 two nuclear

00:36:55.120 bombs

00:36:55.400 dropped in

00:36:55.880 Japan

00:36:56.200 what is

00:36:58.140 indiscriminate

00:36:59.060 to me

00:36:59.880 you can argue

00:37:01.140 that indiscriminate

00:37:01.980 means you

00:37:03.060 don't care

00:37:03.560 at all

00:37:04.000 I wouldn't

00:37:04.980 go as far

00:37:05.480 as that

00:37:05.860 but I

00:37:07.060 would say

00:37:07.720 that the

00:37:08.360 way they

00:37:08.920 have gone

00:37:09.300 about targeting

00:37:10.220 sometimes

00:37:10.940 individual

00:37:11.700 members of

00:37:12.420 Hamas

00:37:12.820 that they

00:37:13.120 believe

00:37:13.500 are in

00:37:13.920 a cafe

00:37:14.760 and they

00:37:15.540 just blow

00:37:16.380 the whole

00:37:16.800 cafe to

00:37:17.380 pieces

00:37:17.740 that shows

00:37:18.940 a in my

00:37:19.800 opinion

00:37:20.200 a reckless

00:37:21.360 disregard

00:37:21.940 for civilian

00:37:23.080 life that

00:37:24.080 is around

00:37:24.480 that one

00:37:24.920 person

00:37:25.360 and again

00:37:25.780 I come

00:37:26.080 back to

00:37:26.540 the Hezbollah

00:37:27.320 thing

00:37:27.660 why is it

00:37:28.660 that they

00:37:29.060 can target

00:37:30.160 Hezbollah

00:37:30.660 and dismantle

00:37:31.720 Hezbollah

00:37:32.440 in such a

00:37:33.680 brilliantly

00:37:34.180 sophisticated

00:37:35.120 surgical

00:37:36.380 strike manner

00:37:37.300 which does

00:37:38.100 not involve

00:37:38.920 destroying

00:37:40.580 Lebanon

00:37:41.060 or wiping

00:37:43.140 out 100,000

00:37:44.240 Lebanese

00:37:45.120 people

00:37:45.740 killing 20,000

00:37:47.540 Lebanese

00:37:48.040 children

00:37:48.520 why is it

00:37:49.520 they're capable

00:37:50.060 of that

00:37:50.520 there

00:37:50.960 but they're

00:37:51.740 completely

00:37:52.180 incapable of

00:37:53.120 any other

00:37:53.740 war strategy

00:37:54.480 here

00:37:55.640 when most

00:37:56.400 people believe

00:37:57.300 who know

00:37:57.800 Hamas

00:37:58.280 that this

00:37:59.240 was all

00:37:59.860 part of

00:38:00.260 Hamas's

00:38:00.760 plan

00:38:01.100 that they

00:38:01.680 knew when

00:38:02.180 they did

00:38:02.540 what they

00:38:02.920 did

00:38:03.220 this is

00:38:04.040 what would

00:38:04.380 happen

00:38:04.760 being

00:38:06.460 sleep deprived

00:38:07.280 messes

00:38:07.820 with everything

00:38:08.480 reaction time

00:38:09.520 memory

00:38:09.980 decision making

00:38:10.980 even your

00:38:11.620 emotions

00:38:12.100 it's like

00:38:12.980 walking around

00:38:13.900 legally drunk

00:38:14.860 and the

00:38:15.400 long-term

00:38:15.800 effects

00:38:16.400 just as bad

00:38:17.360 as smoking

00:38:17.920 most people

00:38:19.120 reach for

00:38:19.680 melatonin

00:38:20.340 but here's

00:38:20.980 the problem

00:38:21.500 melatonin

00:38:22.680 is a hormone

00:38:23.480 and most

00:38:24.280 supplements

00:38:24.680 give you

00:38:25.140 doses

00:38:25.520 10 to

00:38:26.140 50 times

00:38:27.080 higher

00:38:27.380 than your

00:38:27.800 body

00:38:28.220 naturally

00:38:28.740 produces

00:38:29.360 that's why

00:38:30.160 you wake

00:38:30.540 up groggy

00:38:31.140 your sleep

00:38:31.920 gets worse

00:38:32.480 over time

00:38:33.100 and your

00:38:33.760 body stops

00:38:34.400 making

00:38:34.780 melatonin

00:38:35.440 on its

00:38:35.840 own

00:38:36.220 that's

00:38:36.940 why

00:38:37.180 I use

00:38:37.960 evening

00:38:38.660 being

00:38:39.120 by

00:38:39.400 verso

00:38:39.780 it's

00:38:40.380 melatonin

00:38:40.940 free

00:38:41.200 using

00:38:41.560 clinically

00:38:42.160 studied

00:38:42.720 ingredients

00:38:43.240 to help

00:38:43.500 you fall

00:38:43.900 asleep

00:38:44.260 faster

00:38:44.840 stay

00:38:45.480 asleep

00:38:45.860 longer

00:38:46.320 and get

00:38:47.240 more

00:38:47.480 deep

00:38:47.840 and REM

00:38:48.560 sleep

00:38:48.960 without

00:38:49.520 messing

00:38:50.180 with your

00:38:50.880 hormones

00:38:51.520 I've been

00:38:52.400 taking it

00:38:52.920 myself

00:38:53.340 and honestly

00:38:54.140 I'm falling

00:38:54.840 asleep

00:38:55.180 faster

00:38:55.680 and my

00:38:56.100 mind

00:38:56.440 actually

00:38:56.940 switches

00:38:57.380 off at

00:38:57.820 night

00:38:58.140 which used

00:38:58.880 to be

00:38:59.140 a battle

00:38:59.640 shut it

00:39:00.540 of course

00:39:01.020 it did

00:39:01.460 head to

00:39:02.260 ver.so

00:39:05.200 and use

00:39:06.200 code

00:39:06.520 trigger

00:39:06.880 to get

00:39:07.280 15%

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00:39:08.600 first order

00:39:09.340 or click

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00:39:10.500 in the

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00:39:11.300 that's

00:39:12.120 ver.so

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00:39:15.340 trigger

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00:40:19.580 and 98%

00:40:21.160 of those

00:40:21.620 that stick

00:40:22.060 with it

00:40:22.380 for a year

00:40:22.940 become customers

00:40:24.220 for life

00:40:25.020 so go to

00:40:25.740 ShipStation.com

00:40:26.940 and use code

00:40:27.740 trigger to

00:40:28.380 sign up

00:40:28.900 for your

00:40:29.200 free trial

00:40:29.980 no credit

00:40:30.860 card

00:40:31.180 no contract

00:40:32.060 that's

00:40:32.820 ShipStation.com

00:40:34.560 code trigger

00:40:35.660 because the

00:40:38.240 argument would

00:40:38.860 be and by

00:40:39.420 the way

00:40:39.680 I have family

00:40:40.200 who come

00:40:40.700 from Lebanon

00:40:41.160 is that

00:40:41.660 Hezbollah

00:40:42.860 are concentrated

00:40:43.640 in one

00:40:44.180 particular part

00:40:45.240 of Lebanon

00:40:46.520 they're not

00:40:47.240 concentrated

00:40:47.720 Israel didn't

00:40:48.320 blow it up

00:40:48.920 but if you

00:40:50.700 look at

00:40:51.200 Gaza

00:40:52.040 it's very

00:40:52.680 very densely

00:40:53.300 populated

00:40:53.860 and Hamas

00:40:55.060 are physically

00:40:55.700 embedded

00:40:56.160 within that

00:40:56.780 they have

00:40:57.300 consciously

00:40:57.780 embedded

00:40:58.340 themselves

00:40:58.740 as we

00:40:59.400 all know

00:41:00.300 within the

00:41:00.740 civilians

00:41:01.100 so it's

00:41:02.080 almost

00:41:02.760 impossible

00:41:03.560 to be able

00:41:04.160 to target

00:41:04.820 them

00:41:05.100 but if

00:41:05.400 Hamas

00:41:05.660 is showing

00:41:06.660 such a

00:41:07.440 spectacular

00:41:08.140 disregard

00:41:08.700 for its

00:41:09.260 own

00:41:09.620 civilian

00:41:10.220 life

00:41:10.760 then I

00:41:11.880 would argue

00:41:12.380 that you

00:41:13.300 should always

00:41:14.000 if you're

00:41:14.460 in Israel's

00:41:15.740 position as

00:41:16.380 the only

00:41:16.960 democracy

00:41:17.580 in the

00:41:17.940 region

00:41:18.260 and you've

00:41:19.580 got the

00:41:19.880 biggest

00:41:20.100 military

00:41:20.560 in the

00:41:21.160 region

00:41:21.500 it's even

00:41:22.220 more incumbent

00:41:22.860 on you

00:41:23.320 not to be

00:41:23.880 as reckless

00:41:24.320 for civilian

00:41:24.860 life

00:41:25.260 as the

00:41:25.820 people

00:41:26.120 that you're

00:41:26.440 going after

00:41:27.060 right

00:41:27.740 and no

00:41:28.940 one can

00:41:29.380 say to

00:41:30.040 me

00:41:30.380 that this

00:41:31.260 has been

00:41:31.500 a successful

00:41:32.040 strategy

00:41:32.580 it's made

00:41:33.320 Israel

00:41:33.800 more and

00:41:34.320 more hated

00:41:34.820 right

00:41:35.680 this is

00:41:36.200 indisputable

00:41:37.000 I don't

00:41:39.820 hate Israel

00:41:40.460 and I

00:41:40.940 certainly

00:41:41.220 don't hate

00:41:41.680 Israeli

00:41:42.040 people

00:41:42.480 and I

00:41:43.020 certainly

00:41:43.240 don't hate

00:41:43.800 Jewish

00:41:44.160 people

00:41:44.420 one of the

00:41:44.820 problems

00:41:45.060 with this

00:41:45.320 whole

00:41:45.520 debate

00:41:46.000 is every

00:41:46.620 time you

00:41:47.040 criticise

00:41:47.540 the Israeli

00:41:47.900 government

00:41:48.340 which is

00:41:49.100 probably the

00:41:49.520 most far

00:41:50.500 right government

00:41:51.180 in totality

00:41:52.020 in Israel's

00:41:53.180 history

00:41:53.660 by the way

00:41:54.420 is that

00:41:55.120 somehow

00:41:55.440 that makes

00:41:55.900 you anti-Semitic

00:41:56.720 people really

00:41:57.300 need to stop

00:41:57.760 doing that

00:41:58.260 it's so stupid

00:41:59.220 it's really

00:42:01.100 counterproductive

00:42:01.940 and very unwise

00:42:02.840 it really is

00:42:03.920 and actually

00:42:04.280 it's completely

00:42:05.000 self-defeating

00:42:05.740 because no one

00:42:06.200 now believes

00:42:06.600 it anyway

00:42:07.060 so I guess

00:42:08.020 you've got to

00:42:08.520 have grown up

00:42:09.400 discussions

00:42:09.780 about this

00:42:10.440 and like I

00:42:11.100 say

00:42:11.240 as you know

00:42:12.660 for a long

00:42:13.340 long time

00:42:13.800 I was getting

00:42:14.260 attacked by the

00:42:14.980 pro-Palestinian

00:42:15.820 side

00:42:16.060 for supporting

00:42:17.260 Israel's right

00:42:18.140 to defend

00:42:18.580 itself

00:42:19.020 I make no

00:42:19.760 apology for that

00:42:20.600 and I've been

00:42:21.520 attacked by

00:42:22.040 extremists on

00:42:22.660 both sides

00:42:23.100 relentlessly

00:42:23.780 but I can't

00:42:24.720 be both

00:42:25.300 things that

00:42:26.000 they say

00:42:26.480 I can't be

00:42:27.740 a Zionist

00:42:28.560 genocidal

00:42:29.600 supporting

00:42:30.420 monster

00:42:31.100 and at the

00:42:32.480 same time

00:42:33.240 be an

00:42:33.980 anti-Semitic

00:42:35.260 Jew-hater

00:42:36.480 welcome to the

00:42:37.320 internet

00:42:37.620 but yeah

00:42:40.740 look

00:42:41.100 we're in

00:42:42.520 agreement

00:42:42.820 over that

00:42:43.420 look

00:42:43.740 one of the

00:42:44.380 things that I

00:42:44.780 find really

00:42:45.180 interesting

00:42:45.620 is you

00:42:46.360 using the

00:42:46.880 term

00:42:47.080 far right

00:42:47.780 to describe

00:42:48.660 the Israeli

00:42:49.300 government

00:42:49.740 why do

00:42:50.620 you use

00:42:51.040 that term

00:42:51.440 because

00:42:51.640 even people

00:42:52.380 that I

00:42:52.800 think are

00:42:53.520 pretty right

00:42:54.620 wing

00:42:54.940 who come

00:42:55.640 on my

00:42:55.960 show now

00:42:56.520 distance

00:42:57.120 themselves

00:42:57.740 from

00:42:57.960 Smodrich

00:42:58.400 and Ben

00:42:58.760 Gevere

00:42:59.000 they're

00:42:59.940 too right

00:43:00.440 wing

00:43:00.680 even for

00:43:01.280 the right

00:43:01.660 wingers

00:43:02.100 who come

00:43:02.740 on who

00:43:03.020 I think

00:43:03.400 are pretty

00:43:03.700 right

00:43:03.980 wing

00:43:04.260 and that's

00:43:05.260 the honest

00:43:05.600 truth

00:43:05.960 and when

00:43:06.700 that happens

00:43:07.400 there are

00:43:08.120 very few

00:43:08.640 Israelis

00:43:09.060 now who

00:43:09.500 will say

00:43:09.900 they support

00:43:10.560 Ben

00:43:11.360 Gevere

00:43:11.560 and Smodrich

00:43:12.240 what they

00:43:13.480 try and

00:43:13.880 do

00:43:14.000 they try

00:43:14.380 and diminish

00:43:14.960 their

00:43:15.820 involvement

00:43:17.420 they say

00:43:18.300 they're not

00:43:18.580 part of

00:43:18.920 the war

00:43:19.340 cabinet

00:43:19.800 it's

00:43:20.740 meaningless

00:43:21.380 they're

00:43:22.280 senior

00:43:22.680 members

00:43:23.120 of this

00:43:23.400 government

00:43:23.680 the only

00:43:24.300 reason

00:43:24.740 Netanyahu

00:43:25.380 is prime

00:43:25.940 minister

00:43:26.280 this time

00:43:27.240 round

00:43:27.700 the only

00:43:28.320 way he

00:43:28.700 got power

00:43:29.260 back

00:43:29.700 was to

00:43:30.340 get into

00:43:30.720 bed

00:43:31.040 with people

00:43:31.620 which

00:43:31.920 ideologically

00:43:33.020 and politically

00:43:33.760 he had

00:43:34.680 never been

00:43:35.200 in bed

00:43:35.540 with before

00:43:36.060 real

00:43:37.060 hard

00:43:37.860 right

00:43:38.400 extremist

00:43:39.520 headbangers

00:43:40.400 let's

00:43:40.900 not

00:43:41.360 the issue

00:43:42.360 there is

00:43:42.840 even if

00:43:43.460 it's true

00:43:44.380 what people

00:43:44.780 say

00:43:45.000 and I

00:43:45.160 think it

00:43:45.400 is true

00:43:45.720 that they're

00:43:46.040 not involved

00:43:46.500 in the

00:43:46.820 day-to-day

00:43:47.320 decision making

00:43:48.120 of how the

00:43:48.740 war goes

00:43:49.200 the problem

00:43:49.680 is

00:43:49.980 if Netanyahu

00:43:50.980 doesn't get

00:43:51.500 rid of them

00:43:52.040 that shows

00:43:52.700 a tacit

00:43:53.360 acceptance

00:43:54.440 of their

00:43:55.180 statements

00:43:56.000 and it's

00:43:56.780 very worrying

00:43:57.400 even for

00:43:57.880 people who

00:43:58.220 are very

00:43:58.560 pro-Israel

00:43:59.060 of course

00:43:59.520 listen

00:43:59.820 most Israelis

00:44:01.040 now distance

00:44:01.600 themselves

00:44:02.060 from that

00:44:02.440 but these

00:44:02.720 two senior

00:44:03.520 members

00:44:03.820 of the

00:44:03.980 cabinet

00:44:04.220 it would

00:44:04.980 be like

00:44:05.300 saying

00:44:05.620 if we

00:44:05.940 were at

00:44:06.200 war

00:44:06.500 it would

00:44:07.180 be like

00:44:07.420 we can't

00:44:08.920 listen to

00:44:09.240 what the

00:44:10.000 chancellor

00:44:10.380 Rachel Reeves

00:44:11.080 says

00:44:11.460 because she's

00:44:12.380 only the

00:44:12.860 chancellor

00:44:13.340 she's not

00:44:13.880 in the

00:44:14.140 war cabinet

00:44:14.700 nonsense

00:44:15.720 yeah

00:44:16.340 it's

00:44:18.820 interesting

00:44:19.200 because

00:44:19.640 as you

00:44:20.280 know

00:44:20.420 I'm

00:44:20.620 someone

00:44:20.840 who's

00:44:21.080 always

00:44:21.280 been

00:44:21.640 look

00:44:23.240 I've

00:44:23.680 never

00:44:23.840 even

00:44:24.040 described

00:44:24.360 myself

00:44:24.620 as

00:44:24.760 pro-Israel

00:44:25.060 I just

00:44:26.860 generally

00:44:27.240 think

00:44:27.500 you know

00:44:27.720 you said

00:44:28.040 earlier

00:44:28.360 we in

00:44:29.160 Britain

00:44:29.360 wouldn't

00:44:29.720 tolerate

00:44:30.040 this

00:44:30.300 I don't

00:44:31.080 know

00:44:31.260 about

00:44:31.480 that

00:44:31.680 Piers

00:44:31.920 I wonder

00:44:32.560 if we'd

00:44:33.200 been

00:44:33.360 attacked

00:44:33.680 the way

00:44:33.940 Israel

00:44:34.160 attacked

00:44:34.480 what would

00:44:34.880 you be

00:44:35.100 going

00:44:35.300 on TV

00:44:35.740 and saying

00:44:36.260 would

00:44:36.660 you be

00:44:36.920 calling

00:44:37.180 for us

00:44:37.640 to bomb

00:44:40.000 and I

00:44:42.180 might be

00:44:42.520 too

00:44:42.780 let's go

00:44:43.460 back to

00:44:43.760 the illegal

00:44:44.080 invasion

00:44:44.480 of Iraq

00:44:44.920 that's

00:44:45.280 different

00:44:45.580 we were

00:44:45.900 not

00:44:46.060 attacked

00:44:46.380 our

00:44:47.820 allies

00:44:48.160 were

00:44:48.380 and our

00:44:49.640 main

00:44:49.840 ally

00:44:50.180 not by

00:44:50.760 Iraq

00:44:51.180 no

00:44:52.240 that's

00:44:52.680 the point

00:44:53.040 I was

00:44:53.740 editor of

00:44:54.080 the Daily

00:44:54.300 Mirror

00:44:54.540 I led

00:44:55.480 the media

00:44:55.940 campaign

00:44:56.400 against

00:44:57.220 the Iraq

00:44:57.820 war

00:44:58.060 I did

00:44:58.880 not

00:44:59.120 think

00:44:59.360 they

00:44:59.500 produced

00:44:59.960 the

00:45:00.140 evidence

00:45:00.520 of weapons

00:45:01.000 of mass

00:45:01.320 destruction

00:45:01.600 I did

00:45:02.420 not

00:45:02.640 think

00:45:02.920 Saddam

00:45:03.260 Hussein

00:45:03.580 was

00:45:03.740 responsible

00:45:04.160 for

00:45:04.400 9-11

00:45:04.780 it was

00:45:05.120 obviously

00:45:05.540 Al-Qaeda

00:45:06.140 which

00:45:06.680 originated

00:45:07.240 from

00:45:07.960 Bin Laden

00:45:08.500 in

00:45:08.740 Saudi

00:45:08.980 and so

00:45:10.000 I wasn't

00:45:10.400 buying

00:45:10.620 any

00:45:10.820 of it

00:45:11.280 and I

00:45:11.560 turned

00:45:12.120 out

00:45:12.260 I was

00:45:12.460 completely

00:45:12.780 right

00:45:13.140 I'm not

00:45:13.460 trying to

00:45:13.700 win awards

00:45:14.240 for prescience

00:45:15.100 I'm just

00:45:15.480 saying

00:45:15.700 we were

00:45:16.760 against the

00:45:17.140 war

00:45:17.200 before

00:45:17.660 during that

00:45:18.420 I

00:45:18.680 campaigned

00:45:19.500 very hard

00:45:20.080 against it

00:45:20.500 even though

00:45:20.760 my own

00:45:21.100 brother

00:45:21.320 was

00:45:21.520 fighting

00:45:21.880 in the

00:45:22.140 war

00:45:22.340 for the

00:45:23.120 British

00:45:23.320 army

00:45:23.560 it was

00:45:23.800 complicated

00:45:24.420 for my

00:45:25.240 family

00:45:25.500 to put it

00:45:25.920 mildly

00:45:26.380 and I

00:45:27.300 felt very

00:45:27.700 aggrieved

00:45:28.060 for my

00:45:28.360 brother

00:45:28.600 that ultimately

00:45:29.360 the reasons

00:45:30.400 he thought

00:45:30.760 he was

00:45:30.980 fighting

00:45:31.240 it turned

00:45:31.600 out to

00:45:31.840 be

00:45:32.020 bullshit

00:45:32.560 but the

00:45:34.280 reason I

00:45:34.660 think there

00:45:34.900 are parallels

00:45:35.400 there

00:45:35.700 is

00:45:37.000 you have

00:45:37.980 the British

00:45:39.540 people

00:45:40.000 marched

00:45:40.540 through

00:45:40.880 central

00:45:41.360 London

00:45:41.620 right out

00:45:42.060 here

00:45:42.260 1.7

00:45:43.320 million

00:45:43.600 of them

00:45:43.880 the reason

00:45:44.120 I know

00:45:44.460 that

00:45:44.780 number

00:45:45.340 is because

00:45:46.040 many of

00:45:46.380 them are

00:45:46.560 carrying

00:45:46.780 daily

00:45:47.080 mirror

00:45:47.740 no war

00:45:48.300 placards

00:45:48.880 it was

00:45:49.780 the biggest

00:45:50.440 peacetime

00:45:52.000 march

00:45:53.000 ever

00:45:53.480 against this

00:45:54.680 war

00:45:54.940 and the

00:45:55.300 British

00:45:55.500 government

00:45:55.800 went against

00:45:56.340 it

00:45:56.560 and Tony

00:45:57.680 Blair's

00:45:58.000 legacy

00:45:58.280 never

00:45:58.540 recovered

00:45:58.980 from that

00:45:59.760 decision

00:46:00.160 but we

00:46:01.300 did that

00:46:01.840 because the

00:46:02.400 people here

00:46:03.060 recognised

00:46:03.840 in large

00:46:05.300 numbers

00:46:05.740 that the

00:46:06.480 government

00:46:06.760 was not

00:46:07.220 being honest

00:46:08.180 with them

00:46:08.460 about why

00:46:09.120 we were

00:46:09.380 doing this

00:46:09.880 on behalf

00:46:10.380 of America

00:46:10.880 and we

00:46:12.260 ended up

00:46:12.680 attacking

00:46:13.080 and invading

00:46:13.980 a sovereign

00:46:14.840 democratic

00:46:15.300 country

00:46:15.900 a sovereign

00:46:20.020 country

00:46:20.460 not democratic

00:46:21.100 a sovereign

00:46:22.280 Middle Eastern

00:46:22.840 country

00:46:23.300 and the

00:46:25.260 repercussions

00:46:25.900 reverberated

00:46:26.880 ever since

00:46:27.600 with the

00:46:28.120 ISIS

00:46:28.760 and everything

00:46:29.800 else that

00:46:30.120 followed

00:46:30.300 so I

00:46:31.400 think that

00:46:32.080 you say

00:46:32.720 the British

00:46:33.020 people

00:46:33.300 wouldn't

00:46:34.300 I'm saying

00:46:35.120 something

00:46:35.340 completely

00:46:35.840 different

00:46:36.080 let me

00:46:37.100 paint a

00:46:37.780 picture

00:46:38.000 and then

00:46:38.340 you tell

00:46:38.600 me

00:46:38.800 okay

00:46:39.320 fine

00:46:39.760 IRA

00:46:42.120 let's

00:46:44.080 say

00:46:44.340 there is

00:46:44.760 why not

00:46:45.300 the IRA

00:46:45.640 because

00:46:46.200 it's

00:46:46.520 different

00:46:46.860 why

00:46:47.220 because

00:46:47.560 the IRA

00:46:48.000 were not

00:46:48.500 invading

00:46:49.080 in their

00:46:49.440 thousands

00:46:49.820 they were

00:46:50.260 indiscriminately

00:46:50.860 killing civilians

00:46:51.680 yes they

00:46:52.320 were

00:46:52.580 but

00:46:52.800 we didn't

00:46:53.920 go and

00:46:54.200 bomb

00:46:54.380 our

00:46:54.580 did

00:46:54.980 we

00:46:55.160 we

00:46:56.040 I agree

00:46:57.980 with you

00:46:58.260 I think

00:46:58.780 a terrorist

00:46:59.240 attack

00:46:59.600 where a pub

00:47:00.180 gets blown up

00:47:00.820 and lots

00:47:01.160 of people

00:47:01.440 tragically

00:47:01.880 get killed

00:47:02.360 is very

00:47:02.980 different

00:47:03.360 to what

00:47:04.060 happened

00:47:04.400 in Israel

00:47:04.760 on October

00:47:05.200 the 7th

00:47:05.680 and the

00:47:05.900 point I'm

00:47:06.180 trying to

00:47:06.420 make to

00:47:06.720 you is

00:47:07.000 if bands

00:47:08.020 of foreign

00:47:09.040 terrorists

00:47:09.740 from an

00:47:10.480 identifiable

00:47:11.460 nearby location

00:47:12.540 had invaded

00:47:13.560 our country

00:47:14.240 killed over

00:47:15.360 a thousand

00:47:15.800 people

00:47:16.280 wounded over

00:47:17.300 seven thousand

00:47:18.100 had dragged

00:47:18.960 off women

00:47:19.680 and grandparents

00:47:20.700 and babies

00:47:21.360 and held

00:47:22.240 them in

00:47:22.580 cages

00:47:23.000 over the

00:47:24.340 border

00:47:24.720 would you

00:47:25.660 not be

00:47:26.100 demanding

00:47:26.560 that

00:47:27.180 Keir Starmer

00:47:27.920 or whoever

00:47:28.480 is the

00:47:28.900 prime minister

00:47:29.400 at that

00:47:29.780 time

00:47:30.080 do

00:47:30.540 everything

00:47:31.160 possible

00:47:31.760 to get

00:47:32.420 those

00:47:32.640 people

00:47:32.900 back

00:47:33.300 to

00:47:33.660 destroy

00:47:34.080 the

00:47:34.260 people

00:47:34.500 who

00:47:34.680 did

00:47:34.880 this

00:47:35.100 wouldn't

00:47:35.560 you

00:47:35.720 sure

00:47:36.080 and then

00:47:36.600 when

00:47:37.060 you know

00:47:37.600 two years

00:47:38.040 later

00:47:38.500 nearly

00:47:39.480 they hadn't

00:47:40.960 got the

00:47:41.460 hostages

00:47:41.860 back

00:47:42.280 they had

00:47:43.140 killed

00:47:43.520 up to

00:47:44.160 a hundred

00:47:44.540 thousand

00:47:44.980 people

00:47:45.380 including

00:47:45.780 two-thirds

00:47:46.380 of those

00:47:46.740 at least

00:47:47.080 being

00:47:47.400 civilians

00:47:48.160 20,000

00:47:49.500 plus

00:47:49.900 children

00:47:50.720 and

00:47:51.820 we had

00:47:52.680 destroyed

00:47:53.080 70%

00:47:53.920 of the

00:47:54.760 country

00:47:55.460 where these

00:47:55.920 terrorists

00:47:56.280 came from

00:47:56.960 right

00:47:57.860 what do you

00:47:58.320 think the

00:47:58.620 British people

00:47:59.080 would have

00:47:59.320 responded with

00:47:59.920 I don't

00:48:00.240 know

00:48:00.360 remember

00:48:00.640 we attacked

00:48:01.200 Afghanistan

00:48:01.700 we know

00:48:02.200 how the

00:48:02.400 British people

00:48:02.800 responded

00:48:03.160 they didn't

00:48:03.480 like it

00:48:03.920 they didn't

00:48:04.720 like Iraq

00:48:05.480 right

00:48:05.840 the British

00:48:06.520 people do

00:48:07.100 not respond

00:48:07.800 to what they

00:48:08.240 think is

00:48:08.620 unfairness

00:48:09.400 Americans

00:48:09.840 liked

00:48:10.220 Afghanistan

00:48:10.580 they did

00:48:11.940 not so much

00:48:12.480 anymore

00:48:12.780 of course

00:48:13.700 20 years

00:48:14.200 later

00:48:14.460 my point

00:48:15.280 is

00:48:15.520 when you

00:48:16.280 are in

00:48:16.560 that

00:48:16.720 situation

00:48:17.040 you can

00:48:17.500 whip your

00:48:17.900 people into

00:48:18.480 thinking

00:48:18.820 anything

00:48:19.160 well I

00:48:19.920 don't

00:48:20.080 think

00:48:20.280 Afghanistan

00:48:20.900 people

00:48:21.360 I don't

00:48:22.200 necessarily

00:48:22.580 think it

00:48:22.840 was the

00:48:23.020 right

00:48:23.200 it was

00:48:23.760 done in

00:48:24.060 the right

00:48:24.320 way

00:48:24.500 I'm

00:48:24.700 just

00:48:24.860 saying

00:48:25.200 when you

00:48:26.300 are

00:48:26.460 attacked

00:48:26.860 in the

00:48:27.200 way

00:48:27.380 that

00:48:27.580 America

00:48:27.960 was

00:48:28.160 attacked

00:48:28.440 on

00:48:28.640 9-11

00:48:29.040 it's a

00:48:29.340 perfectly

00:48:29.560 reasonable

00:48:29.900 question

00:48:30.320 I just

00:48:30.920 I think

00:48:31.600 we would

00:48:32.420 have been

00:48:32.800 okay

00:48:33.180 I don't

00:48:33.600 think

00:48:33.780 two years

00:48:34.200 later

00:48:34.460 the British

00:48:34.820 public

00:48:35.080 would be

00:48:35.420 remotely

00:48:35.860 happy

00:48:36.240 with what

00:48:36.540 is

00:48:36.640 happening

00:48:36.940 I really

00:48:37.520 don't

00:48:37.760 I do

00:48:39.840 buy into

00:48:40.860 the

00:48:41.200 explanation

00:48:42.180 that some

00:48:42.740 Israelis

00:48:43.500 have put

00:48:43.820 to me

00:48:44.060 that the

00:48:44.440 country is

00:48:45.080 still in

00:48:45.640 trauma

00:48:45.980 and that

00:48:47.340 when people

00:48:47.860 are feeling

00:48:48.820 traumatized

00:48:49.740 they can

00:48:50.340 often react

00:48:51.140 in an

00:48:51.540 irrational

00:48:51.900 way

00:48:52.680 to how

00:48:52.960 they would

00:48:53.180 normally

00:48:53.340 I do

00:48:54.580 think

00:48:54.780 what you're

00:48:55.120 seeing

00:48:55.380 is a

00:48:55.740 massively

00:48:56.200 over

00:48:57.520 how would

00:48:59.880 you best

00:49:00.280 categorize

00:49:00.920 it

00:49:01.060 I don't

00:49:01.680 want to

00:49:01.980 offend

00:49:02.440 people's

00:49:03.040 sensibilities

00:49:03.620 about the

00:49:04.520 way I

00:49:04.800 term this

00:49:05.340 I just

00:49:05.740 think the

00:49:06.160 reaction is

00:49:06.900 massively

00:49:07.300 disproportionate

00:49:08.220 and it's

00:49:08.860 fueled by

00:49:09.460 rage and

00:49:10.280 revenge

00:49:10.880 and I

00:49:11.640 think that

00:49:12.060 that has

00:49:12.560 played into

00:49:13.260 the deliberate

00:49:14.560 Hamas trap

00:49:15.560 which is

00:49:16.180 this is what

00:49:16.660 they wanted

00:49:17.120 Israel to

00:49:17.660 do

00:49:17.920 I think

00:49:19.560 ultimately

00:49:20.200 it's been

00:49:20.520 counterproductive

00:49:21.240 whether you

00:49:22.080 support the

00:49:22.680 right to

00:49:23.100 do it

00:49:23.480 the right to

00:49:24.360 continue

00:49:24.740 doing it

00:49:25.060 or not

00:49:25.280 no one

00:49:25.780 can argue

00:49:26.100 that it's

00:49:26.360 worked

00:49:26.780 so if

00:49:28.160 it hasn't

00:49:28.600 worked

00:49:28.960 at some

00:49:29.320 point you

00:49:29.580 have to

00:49:29.840 stop

00:49:30.260 otherwise you

00:49:31.280 just carry

00:49:31.820 on just

00:49:32.940 killing people

00:49:33.720 and making

00:49:34.800 your country

00:49:35.500 more and

00:49:35.980 more isolated

00:49:37.240 and loathed

00:49:38.260 and I don't

00:49:39.080 want that for

00:49:39.640 the Israeli

00:49:40.000 people

00:49:40.540 would you

00:49:42.560 describe this

00:49:43.220 as being a

00:49:43.620 genocide now

00:49:44.280 what I've

00:49:46.700 said on that

00:49:47.200 is certainly

00:49:48.460 a lot of

00:49:49.400 people like

00:49:49.880 Smodrich talk

00:49:50.580 in genocidal

00:49:51.240 language

00:49:51.720 certainly

00:49:53.080 an unbelievable

00:49:54.520 number of

00:49:55.300 innocent people

00:49:56.160 have been

00:49:56.600 killed as

00:49:57.140 they've gone

00:49:57.420 after Hamas

00:49:58.120 is it a

00:50:00.100 genocide

00:50:00.380 we can't be

00:50:01.220 sure until

00:50:02.060 the international

00:50:02.680 media are

00:50:03.420 allowed in

00:50:04.080 to see what's

00:50:05.200 actually happened

00:50:06.000 is my argument

00:50:07.040 I'm not prepared

00:50:08.500 to declare

00:50:09.140 something a

00:50:09.620 genocide based

00:50:10.260 on what I

00:50:10.600 see on

00:50:10.860 TikTok

00:50:11.140 it is

00:50:12.320 scandalous

00:50:13.320 that the

00:50:13.900 Israeli

00:50:14.180 government

00:50:14.640 continues to

00:50:15.800 ban

00:50:16.120 western

00:50:17.140 international

00:50:17.940 journalists

00:50:18.360 from going

00:50:18.740 in

00:50:18.960 it's

00:50:19.440 scandalous

00:50:19.800 it's

00:50:19.980 unprecedented

00:50:20.400 we've

00:50:21.040 never

00:50:21.220 seen

00:50:21.480 this

00:50:21.780 and what

00:50:22.500 happened

00:50:22.780 immediately

00:50:23.120 after October

00:50:23.620 the 7th

00:50:24.600 the Israeli

00:50:24.980 government

00:50:25.280 invited the

00:50:26.000 world's media

00:50:26.580 to the

00:50:27.220 kibbutzes

00:50:27.640 to see the

00:50:28.180 mayhem

00:50:28.580 but there is

00:50:29.260 a slight

00:50:29.620 difference

00:50:30.060 because

00:50:30.400 when you

00:50:32.360 invite people

00:50:32.960 into the

00:50:33.360 kibbutz

00:50:33.720 you're not

00:50:34.200 putting

00:50:34.520 journalists

00:50:35.060 in physical

00:50:35.880 danger

00:50:36.240 they don't

00:50:36.660 care about

00:50:37.100 journalists

00:50:37.560 safety

00:50:38.300 they've

00:50:38.580 already

00:50:38.760 killed

00:50:39.000 250

00:50:39.720 plus

00:50:40.080 Palestinian

00:50:40.540 journalists

00:50:40.940 in Gaza

00:50:41.320 there's

00:50:42.360 no way

00:50:42.720 anyone can

00:50:43.120 argue to

00:50:43.480 me that

00:50:43.860 the Israeli

00:50:44.760 government

00:50:45.100 cares about

00:50:45.720 the health

00:50:46.160 and safety

00:50:46.560 they don't

00:50:47.880 care about

00:50:48.240 the health

00:50:48.520 and safety

00:50:48.840 they don't

00:50:49.300 want to be

00:50:49.980 blamed for

00:50:50.520 them being

00:50:50.900 killed

00:50:51.120 they don't

00:50:51.420 care about

00:50:52.980 being blamed

00:50:53.460 for killing

00:50:53.800 250 Palestinian

00:50:54.760 journalists

00:50:55.080 there's no

00:50:57.640 other war

00:50:58.140 zone where

00:50:58.540 you've had

00:50:59.040 a complete

00:50:59.620 blanket

00:51:00.080 back

00:51:00.460 in

00:51:00.640 Ukraine

00:51:00.980 you can't

00:51:01.440 go on

00:51:01.660 the front

00:51:01.960 line

00:51:02.180 and all

00:51:03.920 of Gaza

00:51:04.260 is a

00:51:04.500 front

00:51:04.700 line

00:51:04.900 it is

00:51:06.080 it is

00:51:07.040 what do

00:51:08.020 you mean

00:51:08.580 all of Gaza

00:51:09.340 is not a

00:51:09.880 front line

00:51:10.440 unless you

00:51:11.940 pretend it's

00:51:12.520 a front

00:51:12.800 line

00:51:13.280 tell me

00:51:14.260 more

00:51:14.400 maybe I'm

00:51:14.800 misinformed

00:51:15.220 but I

00:51:17.000 think that

00:51:17.440 all the

00:51:18.720 war

00:51:18.900 correspondents

00:51:19.600 I've

00:51:19.820 talked to

00:51:20.200 say this

00:51:20.640 is

00:51:20.800 unprecedented

00:51:21.340 they all

00:51:22.960 say that

00:51:24.100 there's only

00:51:24.860 one reason

00:51:25.720 the Israeli

00:51:26.620 government

00:51:27.020 doesn't want

00:51:27.700 journalists

00:51:28.400 into Gaza

00:51:29.380 because it

00:51:30.780 doesn't want

00:51:31.300 the world

00:51:31.600 to see

00:51:31.900 what it's

00:51:32.200 been

00:51:32.340 doing

00:51:32.640 hold on

00:51:35.720 Piers

00:51:35.920 but the

00:51:36.620 world is

00:51:37.000 seeing what's

00:51:37.420 happening

00:51:37.660 in Gaza

00:51:38.080 isn't exactly

00:51:39.200 the way

00:51:39.440 you said

00:51:39.760 everyone's

00:51:40.060 got a

00:51:40.280 camera phone

00:51:40.860 now

00:51:41.120 they have

00:51:41.920 but that

00:51:42.360 to me

00:51:42.800 is not

00:51:43.340 easily

00:51:44.000 verified

00:51:44.400 every day

00:51:44.840 if you

00:51:45.360 want to

00:51:45.740 know

00:51:45.860 what's

00:51:46.100 happening

00:51:46.380 in Gaza

00:51:46.780 there's no

00:51:47.200 shortage

00:51:47.540 of

00:51:47.740 videos

00:51:47.920 you can

00:51:48.320 see what

00:51:48.780 people are

00:51:49.280 claiming is

00:51:49.840 happening

00:51:50.180 you can't

00:51:50.620 be sure

00:51:51.000 about the

00:51:51.360 veracity of

00:51:51.860 this stuff

00:51:52.160 so you need

00:51:53.380 proper

00:51:53.900 international

00:51:55.100 journalists

00:51:55.680 with great

00:51:56.220 experience of

00:51:56.920 war zones

00:51:57.400 to go in

00:51:58.240 and do

00:51:58.940 their jobs

00:51:59.500 it will be

00:51:59.840 the job

00:52:00.240 of their

00:52:00.620 own employers

00:52:01.280 to decide

00:52:02.340 about the

00:52:03.240 risk assessment

00:52:03.940 they'll go

00:52:04.540 with their

00:52:04.780 own security

00:52:05.340 teams

00:52:05.680 the idea

00:52:06.480 the only

00:52:06.980 journalists

00:52:07.400 allowed in

00:52:08.000 are pro-Israeli

00:52:09.280 government

00:52:09.660 journalists

00:52:10.120 who go in

00:52:10.660 bed with the

00:52:11.140 IDF

00:52:11.520 for a few

00:52:12.180 hours

00:52:12.500 and say

00:52:12.800 nothing to

00:52:13.460 see here

00:52:13.860 is ridiculous

00:52:14.980 if you've

00:52:16.020 nothing to

00:52:16.440 hide

00:52:16.760 let them

00:52:17.660 in

00:52:17.900 let them

00:52:18.580 do their

00:52:18.940 job

00:52:19.160 do you

00:52:19.320 not think

00:52:19.760 that they

00:52:20.260 are terrified

00:52:21.060 of the

00:52:21.460 idea that

00:52:22.220 you know

00:52:22.640 a member

00:52:23.000 of CNN

00:52:23.460 gets killed

00:52:24.140 and then

00:52:24.660 I don't think

00:52:25.300 they give a

00:52:25.860 rat's shit

00:52:27.240 I don't think

00:52:27.900 they care about

00:52:28.580 the journalists

00:52:29.060 necessarily

00:52:29.660 I think they

00:52:30.160 care about

00:52:30.680 the PR

00:52:31.120 more journalists

00:52:31.540 have been

00:52:31.820 killed

00:52:32.180 than any

00:52:34.860 other war

00:52:35.400 in modern

00:52:36.020 times

00:52:36.600 I hear

00:52:37.460 you

00:52:37.640 but those

00:52:38.260 are

00:52:38.360 Palestinian

00:52:38.780 people

00:52:39.080 who are

00:52:39.300 already

00:52:39.600 there

00:52:39.880 they're

00:52:40.080 not

00:52:40.200 going

00:52:40.360 to

00:52:40.440 be

00:52:40.540 journalists

00:52:41.080 right

00:52:41.360 you're

00:52:42.460 not

00:52:42.560 hearing

00:52:42.780 me

00:52:43.000 just

00:52:43.280 answer

00:52:43.640 my

00:52:43.820 I'm not

00:52:44.780 trying to

00:52:45.080 argue

00:52:45.260 with you

00:52:45.500 for the sake

00:52:45.840 of arguing

00:52:46.140 I'm genuinely

00:52:46.640 interested in

00:52:47.140 your perspective

00:52:47.660 do you not

00:52:48.620 think that what

00:52:49.080 Israel really

00:52:49.640 cares about

00:52:50.260 is the

00:52:51.080 potential

00:52:51.560 PR

00:52:52.040 disaster

00:52:52.820 that happens

00:52:54.180 a if a

00:52:55.780 member of

00:52:56.340 CNN or the

00:52:57.060 Daily Mirror

00:52:57.560 gets killed

00:52:59.080 in an

00:52:59.460 airstrike

00:53:00.200 because they

00:53:00.720 happen to be

00:53:01.260 standing next to

00:53:02.020 something

00:53:02.340 or as

00:53:03.640 is also

00:53:04.020 I think

00:53:04.280 you'd agree

00:53:04.620 likely

00:53:05.100 Hamas orchestrates

00:53:06.480 some kind

00:53:06.860 of event

00:53:07.240 where that

00:53:07.700 journalist

00:53:08.040 is killed

00:53:08.500 and that

00:53:09.120 is a

00:53:09.480 PR disaster

00:53:10.200 for Israel

00:53:10.660 and that's

00:53:11.420 why they

00:53:11.740 don't want

00:53:12.080 journalists

00:53:12.380 no I

00:53:12.800 don't

00:53:13.040 why not

00:53:13.740 I just

00:53:14.240 don't think

00:53:14.520 that's

00:53:14.740 a rational

00:53:15.940 explanation

00:53:16.500 no for the

00:53:17.140 simple reason

00:53:17.620 they've already

00:53:18.020 killed 250

00:53:18.860 Palestinian

00:53:19.460 journalists

00:53:19.840 they don't

00:53:20.080 care about

00:53:20.480 journalists

00:53:20.920 they just

00:53:21.840 don't want

00:53:22.240 journalists

00:53:22.520 they don't

00:53:23.600 want the

00:53:24.000 journalists

00:53:24.420 to see

00:53:24.860 what they're

00:53:25.260 doing

00:53:25.560 so the

00:53:26.360 big question

00:53:26.840 then becomes

00:53:27.420 why

00:53:27.940 why doesn't

00:53:29.100 Netanyahu

00:53:29.600 want journalists

00:53:30.440 in Gaza

00:53:31.100 to verify

00:53:32.040 all these

00:53:32.800 stories of

00:53:33.500 starving

00:53:34.740 Palestinians

00:53:35.600 stampeding

00:53:36.780 for

00:53:37.180 fragments

00:53:38.080 of food

00:53:38.720 and getting

00:53:39.380 shot dead

00:53:40.140 on a

00:53:41.160 daily basis

00:53:42.000 a thousand

00:53:42.820 plus now

00:53:43.680 according to

00:53:44.820 almost every

00:53:46.320 official body

00:53:47.140 have been killed

00:53:48.040 in these food

00:53:48.720 lines

00:53:49.160 right

00:53:49.880 and the belief

00:53:51.160 is it's the

00:53:51.700 IDF killing

00:53:52.480 them

00:53:52.740 well there's

00:53:53.580 one way to

00:53:54.180 verify this

00:53:54.920 let the

00:53:55.460 journalists

00:53:55.780 go and

00:53:56.060 investigate

00:53:56.440 and do

00:53:57.140 their job

00:53:57.660 I think

00:53:58.260 we're going

00:53:58.540 to uncover

00:53:59.000 and answer

00:53:59.320 to your

00:53:59.680 point

00:53:59.920 I think

00:54:00.720 we're going

00:54:00.940 to uncover

00:54:01.440 a lot

00:54:01.900 of war

00:54:02.260 crimes

00:54:02.620 at the

00:54:02.900 end of

00:54:03.160 this

00:54:03.400 which will

00:54:04.360 be a

00:54:05.180 stain

00:54:05.520 that Israel

00:54:06.160 because of

00:54:07.340 its government's

00:54:07.960 actions may

00:54:08.520 find extremely

00:54:09.340 hard to

00:54:10.360 ever wash

00:54:10.920 away

00:54:11.260 and I think

00:54:12.000 that's a tragedy

00:54:12.680 for Israel

00:54:13.400 who had

00:54:14.120 everyone's

00:54:14.760 support

00:54:15.000 not everyone's

00:54:15.980 support

00:54:16.260 let me

00:54:16.620 clarify

00:54:17.080 that

00:54:17.420 who had

00:54:18.160 broad support

00:54:19.300 internationally

00:54:20.020 after October

00:54:20.680 the 7th

00:54:21.340 with you know

00:54:22.500 unfortunately

00:54:23.180 a lot of

00:54:23.860 appalling

00:54:24.320 I mean I

00:54:24.600 remember walking

00:54:25.140 down Kensington

00:54:25.720 High Street

00:54:26.200 near the Israeli

00:54:28.080 embassy

00:54:28.460 a day

00:54:28.920 after

00:54:29.660 and there

00:54:30.540 were large

00:54:31.240 numbers of

00:54:31.700 people

00:54:32.040 in the

00:54:32.920 street

00:54:33.240 you know

00:54:33.980 cheering

00:54:35.460 and all

00:54:35.920 was it

00:54:36.180 celebrating

00:54:36.820 they were

00:54:37.580 celebrating

00:54:38.140 it was

00:54:38.520 sickening

00:54:39.160 right

00:54:39.400 so it

00:54:40.880 brought out

00:54:41.460 a lot

00:54:41.820 of

00:54:41.980 anti-Semitism

00:54:42.660 which was

00:54:43.720 disgusting

00:54:44.320 it made

00:54:45.060 Jewish people's

00:54:45.820 lives less

00:54:46.420 safe

00:54:46.780 which was

00:54:47.420 disgusting

00:54:47.900 but I

00:54:48.920 would argue

00:54:49.400 now that

00:54:50.100 the actions

00:54:50.700 of the

00:54:50.980 Israeli

00:54:51.260 government

00:54:51.680 the longer

00:54:52.020 this goes

00:54:52.440 on are

00:54:52.780 having the

00:54:53.140 same effect

00:54:53.760 I think

00:54:54.480 they are

00:54:54.740 leading to

00:54:55.320 a rise

00:54:55.920 in anti-Semitism

00:54:56.740 and they

00:54:57.560 are leading

00:54:57.940 to a rise

00:54:58.900 in less

00:54:59.960 safety for

00:55:00.480 Jewish people

00:55:00.960 around the

00:55:01.280 world

00:55:01.520 so again

00:55:03.360 I think

00:55:03.940 they have

00:55:04.140 played into

00:55:04.620 Hamas's

00:55:05.140 trap

00:55:05.460 and I

00:55:06.520 think that's

00:55:07.080 a great

00:55:07.740 shame

00:55:08.160 and they

00:55:09.520 should stop

00:55:09.940 it

00:55:10.080 this war

00:55:10.540 should just

00:55:10.900 be stopped

00:55:11.520 and they

00:55:12.360 should just

00:55:13.120 politically

00:55:14.160 end this

00:55:14.940 no one

00:55:15.680 thinks Hamas

00:55:16.300 can come

00:55:16.700 back

00:55:16.920 I mean

00:55:17.180 no Palestinian

00:55:17.900 guest

00:55:18.220 I've had

00:55:18.900 thinks Hamas

00:55:19.820 will ever

00:55:20.200 govern again

00:55:20.880 in any way

00:55:21.880 so that's

00:55:22.900 all been

00:55:23.140 agreed by

00:55:23.680 the Arab

00:55:23.980 countries

00:55:24.460 so for

00:55:25.400 God's sake

00:55:26.000 stop the

00:55:26.580 killing

00:55:26.880 get everyone

00:55:28.040 together

00:55:28.640 get Arab

00:55:29.600 pressure now

00:55:30.360 to help

00:55:31.400 sort this

00:55:32.320 but this

00:55:32.920 idea that

00:55:33.520 Israel can

00:55:34.120 simply kick

00:55:34.740 every

00:55:35.000 Palestinian

00:55:35.500 out of

00:55:35.820 Gaza

00:55:36.080 and take

00:55:36.760 it over

00:55:37.160 that should

00:55:38.480 send a

00:55:38.960 shudder down

00:55:39.660 everyone's spine

00:55:40.520 well I

00:55:41.120 can't imagine

00:55:41.800 the international

00:55:42.380 community

00:55:42.880 would allow

00:55:43.320 that to

00:55:43.720 happen

00:55:44.000 Piers

00:55:44.380 it's not

00:55:45.160 doing a lot

00:55:45.580 to stop

00:55:45.980 it

00:55:46.260 so

00:55:47.820 so where

00:55:50.040 we are

00:55:50.440 now

00:55:50.840 I

00:55:51.700 there will

00:55:52.520 be a lot

00:55:52.940 of people

00:55:53.340 who say

00:55:53.780 Piers

00:55:54.200 and maybe

00:55:55.360 I got this

00:55:55.840 wrong

00:55:56.020 but the

00:55:56.320 last ceasefire

00:55:57.100 was broken

00:55:58.240 by Hamas

00:55:58.800 was it not

00:55:59.420 according

00:56:00.480 to Israel

00:56:01.080 and the

00:56:02.380 last offer

00:56:02.900 of a

00:56:03.160 ceasefire

00:56:03.560 was not

00:56:03.940 accepted

00:56:04.300 by

00:56:04.500 I don't

00:56:04.860 really

00:56:05.100 believe

00:56:05.620 much

00:56:06.060 that either

00:56:06.640 Hamas

00:56:07.160 or the

00:56:07.560 Israeli

00:56:07.880 government

00:56:08.300 now say

00:56:08.920 if I'm

00:56:10.080 honest

00:56:10.380 they all

00:56:11.140 blame each

00:56:11.540 other all

00:56:11.980 the time

00:56:12.340 for absolutely

00:56:12.880 everything

00:56:13.280 the IDF

00:56:14.280 says every

00:56:14.860 single atrocity

00:56:15.720 that happens

00:56:16.260 is Hamas's

00:56:17.700 fault

00:56:17.960 Hamas say

00:56:18.880 that everything

00:56:19.400 that happens

00:56:19.940 is bad

00:56:20.420 is the IDF's

00:56:21.580 fault

00:56:21.780 so again

00:56:22.660 there is a

00:56:23.820 way to get

00:56:24.260 through this

00:56:24.840 let independent

00:56:26.340 journalists come

00:56:27.000 in and find

00:56:28.040 out

00:56:28.300 that's the way

00:56:29.360 that you get

00:56:29.840 through the

00:56:30.600 lies and the

00:56:31.140 bullshit on

00:56:31.620 both sides

00:56:32.200 but what about

00:56:33.600 the ceasefire

00:56:34.180 though

00:56:34.460 because people

00:56:35.460 are trying to

00:56:36.100 get a ceasefire

00:56:36.780 together

00:56:37.140 Hamas is not

00:56:38.080 accepting it

00:56:38.700 by the force

00:56:39.480 of those

00:56:39.840 people

00:56:40.100 says the

00:56:40.580 Israeli

00:56:40.920 government

00:56:41.260 no it

00:56:41.520 says the

00:56:42.160 American

00:56:42.520 well there

00:56:42.920 was a report

00:56:43.400 recently that

00:56:44.040 Smodrich last

00:56:44.900 year a year

00:56:45.640 ago made it

00:56:46.920 clear to Netanyahu

00:56:47.840 if he did the

00:56:48.740 ceasefire deal

00:56:49.600 then that was on

00:56:50.380 the on the table

00:56:51.440 which is a big

00:56:52.060 significant one

00:56:52.840 with a view to

00:56:53.580 ending the war

00:56:54.160 then he would

00:56:55.260 resign and bring

00:56:55.820 down the government

00:56:56.420 so they didn't

00:56:57.000 do it

00:56:57.660 now that was

00:56:58.400 well sourced

00:56:59.160 if that's what

00:57:00.080 happened

00:57:00.480 it's disgraceful

00:57:01.500 right

00:57:02.420 these guys

00:57:03.880 Smodrich and

00:57:04.500 Ben Gavir

00:57:04.920 don't want this

00:57:05.420 war over

00:57:05.880 they want to

00:57:06.900 cleanse Gaza

00:57:07.640 do you think

00:57:09.060 Netanyahu

00:57:09.540 wants it to

00:57:10.060 be over

00:57:10.400 no I

00:57:12.480 don't

00:57:12.780 have you

00:57:13.000 tried to

00:57:13.500 invite him

00:57:13.980 on your

00:57:14.200 show

00:57:14.360 yeah

00:57:14.560 yeah I

00:57:15.820 interviewed him

00:57:16.360 a few months

00:57:17.660 before October

00:57:18.540 the 7th when

00:57:19.380 he came to

00:57:19.860 London and

00:57:21.640 it was when he

00:57:22.340 was taking on the

00:57:23.080 Supreme Court and

00:57:23.860 trying to reduce

00:57:25.060 their power in

00:57:25.980 Israel and

00:57:26.900 there were mass

00:57:27.380 protests from

00:57:28.080 Israeli people

00:57:28.820 then he was

00:57:29.260 very unpopular

00:57:30.000 and I did

00:57:30.840 about a 30-40

00:57:31.880 minute interview

00:57:32.420 with him

00:57:32.740 one of his

00:57:33.140 ministers resigned

00:57:33.780 while we were

00:57:34.200 doing it

00:57:34.720 so he was

00:57:35.680 in big

00:57:36.000 political

00:57:36.640 trouble

00:57:36.980 and I'm

00:57:38.760 afraid the

00:57:39.220 cynic in

00:57:39.680 me would

00:57:40.860 suggest that

00:57:41.600 Netanyahu

00:57:42.300 has seen

00:57:43.080 a poll boost

00:57:44.660 from warfare

00:57:45.500 whether it's

00:57:47.120 against Hezbollah

00:57:47.860 against Iran

00:57:48.800 whether it's

00:57:50.120 been against

00:57:50.620 Hamas

00:57:51.120 I think he's

00:57:52.480 become a

00:57:53.020 war-mongering

00:57:54.880 prime minister

00:57:55.680 who thinks

00:57:57.100 that there's

00:57:57.800 no real

00:57:58.440 upside to him

00:57:59.300 in ending

00:57:59.660 this anytime

00:58:00.220 soon because

00:58:00.800 when he does

00:58:01.340 he will be

00:58:02.180 held accountable

00:58:02.780 for October

00:58:03.580 the 7th

00:58:04.120 and he will

00:58:04.980 end up in

00:58:05.820 a criminal

00:58:06.140 court for

00:58:06.620 corruption

00:58:07.020 none of that

00:58:07.980 is good if

00:58:08.380 you're Benjamin

00:58:08.800 Netanyahu

00:58:09.360 there's no

00:58:10.220 obvious incentive

00:58:11.020 to end this

00:58:11.600 war

00:58:11.880 there is going

00:58:12.860 to be war

00:58:13.380 fatigue

00:58:13.720 there is going

00:58:14.400 to be a time

00:58:15.020 when the Israeli

00:58:15.800 people go no

00:58:16.680 more

00:58:16.980 there's no

00:58:17.780 actual sign of

00:58:18.760 that and that's

00:58:19.600 what's really

00:58:20.120 baffling and

00:58:20.780 concerning to me

00:58:21.560 and I do

00:58:22.220 wonder about

00:58:22.980 said this on

00:58:23.640 my show last

00:58:24.140 night

00:58:24.320 what media do

00:58:25.840 they watch in

00:58:26.560 Israel

00:58:26.940 because Israelis

00:58:29.000 I meet here

00:58:29.880 are pretty

00:58:30.740 horrified by

00:58:31.400 what's happening

00:58:31.920 and even the

00:58:32.960 ones who were

00:58:33.540 very supportive

00:58:34.220 to start with

00:58:34.740 have moved

00:58:35.220 I don't really

00:58:36.220 meet many

00:58:36.820 Israelis outside

00:58:37.800 of Israel

00:58:38.420 I'm going to

00:58:39.540 New York

00:58:39.980 end of this

00:58:40.720 week

00:58:40.820 it'd be

00:58:40.960 interesting

00:58:41.220 there

00:58:41.520 obviously

00:58:41.980 more Jews

00:58:42.940 in New York

00:58:43.480 than any

00:58:44.260 other place

00:58:45.320 than Tel Aviv

00:58:46.060 right

00:58:46.480 it'd be

00:58:47.480 interesting

00:58:47.780 there

00:58:48.180 what the

00:58:49.340 feeling is

00:58:49.780 on the

00:58:50.020 streets

00:58:50.280 there

00:58:50.540 but again

00:58:51.300 I'm hearing

00:58:51.660 from Jewish

00:58:52.140 friends in

00:58:52.560 New York

00:58:52.760 they don't

00:58:53.360 like this

00:58:53.900 they just

00:58:55.060 don't see

00:58:55.500 an end to

00:58:55.960 it

00:58:56.120 or what

00:58:56.500 the point

00:58:56.940 of all

00:58:57.220 this

00:58:57.400 is

00:58:57.520 anymore

00:58:57.800 that's

00:58:58.180 really

00:58:58.360 the issue

00:58:58.820 is

00:58:59.060 it's

00:58:59.420 becoming

00:58:59.780 quite

00:59:00.580 difficult

00:59:01.020 to see

00:59:01.500 what the

00:59:01.860 point

00:59:02.460 is

00:59:02.920 at this

00:59:03.420 point

00:59:03.720 unless

00:59:04.180 it is

00:59:04.620 what

00:59:04.840 Smodric

00:59:05.200 says

00:59:05.500 it is

00:59:05.900 or unless

00:59:07.400 it's

00:59:07.600 what you

00:59:07.880 say

00:59:08.100 about

00:59:08.400 the

00:59:08.600 leadership

00:59:08.920 which

00:59:09.260 is

00:59:09.400 them

00:59:09.580 wanting

00:59:09.900 to

00:59:10.400 prolong

00:59:11.200 this

00:59:11.480 as far

00:59:11.820 as

00:59:11.980 possible

00:59:12.160 particularly

00:59:12.800 see

00:59:13.700 the argument

00:59:15.120 always

00:59:15.460 was

00:59:15.780 that

00:59:16.140 Iran

00:59:17.320 is

00:59:17.500 behind

00:59:17.800 all

00:59:18.040 of

00:59:18.160 this

00:59:18.440 and

00:59:19.400 until

00:59:19.740 Iran

00:59:20.000 is

00:59:20.120 dealt

00:59:20.320 with

00:59:20.600 then

00:59:21.340 this

00:59:22.320 is

00:59:22.460 all

00:59:22.600 going

00:59:22.740 to

00:59:22.820 go

00:59:22.940 on

00:59:23.100 well

00:59:23.280 Iran

00:59:23.520 as

00:59:24.400 much

00:59:24.620 as

00:59:24.780 possible

00:59:25.100 has

00:59:25.360 been

00:59:25.540 dealt

00:59:25.780 with

00:59:26.100 so

00:59:26.580 it

00:59:26.860 just

00:59:27.420 doesn't

00:59:27.880 feel

00:59:28.220 particularly

00:59:28.800 productive

00:59:29.260 to keep

00:59:29.720 going

00:59:30.000 and it

00:59:30.220 was

00:59:30.340 very

00:59:30.660 eye

00:59:31.000 opening

00:59:31.240 for us

00:59:31.680 having

00:59:31.920 Andrew

00:59:32.200 Fox

00:59:32.460 in your

00:59:32.760 chair

00:59:33.060 who's

00:59:33.600 otherwise

00:59:33.900 very

00:59:34.180 pro-Israel

00:59:34.640 saying

00:59:35.060 this should

00:59:35.660 have ended

00:59:35.960 a few

00:59:36.240 months

00:59:36.440 ago

00:59:36.620 because

00:59:36.780 they're

00:59:36.920 not

00:59:37.160 actually

00:59:37.540 achieving

00:59:37.940 their

00:59:38.140 objectives

00:59:38.520 you've

00:59:39.500 interviewed

00:59:39.800 a lot

00:59:40.320 of

00:59:40.440 people

00:59:40.620 and

00:59:40.800 hosted

00:59:41.180 a lot

00:59:41.500 of

00:59:41.620 debates

00:59:42.040 on

00:59:42.260 this

00:59:42.420 obviously

00:59:42.880 have

00:59:44.160 you

00:59:44.340 heard

00:59:44.760 a

00:59:45.040 credible

00:59:45.540 solution

00:59:46.100 to

00:59:46.340 all

00:59:46.500 of

00:59:46.620 this

00:59:46.920 only

00:59:47.760 political

00:59:48.220 which

00:59:48.820 is

00:59:48.960 the

00:59:49.080 way

00:59:49.240 all

00:59:49.420 these

00:59:49.600 things

00:59:49.760 get

00:59:49.920 resolved

00:59:50.260 in the

00:59:50.520 end

00:59:50.700 such

00:59:51.520 as

00:59:51.820 well

00:59:52.140 let me

00:59:52.320 give

00:59:52.440 an

00:59:52.540 example

00:59:52.900 it's

00:59:53.480 not

00:59:53.640 an

00:59:53.780 exact

00:59:54.000 parallel

00:59:54.400 but

00:59:54.740 in

00:59:55.020 Northern

00:59:55.400 Ireland

00:59:55.680 for

00:59:55.920 seven

00:59:56.220 decades

00:59:56.680 they

00:59:57.020 had

00:59:57.240 the

00:59:57.440 Northern

00:59:57.800 Irish

00:59:58.460 troubles

00:59:58.900 you know

01:00:00.500 I'd

01:00:01.520 found me

01:00:01.880 do

01:00:02.080 tools

01:00:02.400 in

01:00:02.520 Northern

01:00:02.720 Ireland

01:00:02.980 the

01:00:03.200 loyalists

01:00:03.600 were

01:00:03.820 often

01:00:04.420 just

01:00:04.680 as

01:00:04.860 bad

01:00:05.120 as

01:00:05.320 the

01:00:05.600 IRA

01:00:05.880 right

01:00:06.200 and

01:00:08.000 you

01:00:08.220 had

01:00:08.440 endless

01:00:09.000 terrorism

01:00:09.800 on both

01:00:10.940 sides

01:00:11.220 from

01:00:11.400 extremists

01:00:11.920 for a

01:00:12.480 long

01:00:12.640 period

01:00:12.840 of

01:00:13.000 time

01:00:13.240 and

01:00:13.920 then

01:00:14.080 in

01:00:14.220 the

01:00:14.340 90s

01:00:14.920 you

01:00:15.580 finally

01:00:16.000 had

01:00:16.260 new

01:00:16.480 leadership

01:00:16.840 you

01:00:17.120 had

01:00:17.260 Bill

01:00:17.460 Clinton

01:00:17.740 in

01:00:17.940 America

01:00:18.280 take

01:00:18.680 over

01:00:18.840 as

01:00:18.980 president

01:00:19.300 you

01:00:19.920 had

01:00:20.120 Tony

01:00:20.400 Blair

01:00:20.600 take

01:00:20.880 over

01:00:21.060 as

01:00:21.180 president

01:00:21.400 here

01:00:21.620 but

01:00:21.760 actually

01:00:21.980 John

01:00:22.220 Major

01:00:22.500 to his

01:00:22.760 credit

01:00:23.020 just before

01:00:23.820 that had been

01:00:24.200 instrumental in this too

01:00:25.140 you had Senator George Mitchell

01:00:26.260 who was brilliant at the same time

01:00:28.320 so you know a whole new set of fresh eyes

01:00:30.380 look at this problem

01:00:31.540 and they managed to barrel their way somehow through

01:00:36.020 to peace

01:00:37.400 and they ended up bringing in people like Martin McGuinness

01:00:40.500 former chief of the staff of the IRA

01:00:41.860 to become credible politicians with Sinn Féin

01:00:45.160 who are now the number one political party in the country

01:00:48.420 right

01:00:48.980 and they've got it and they have relative peace here now

01:00:51.680 in Northern Ireland

01:00:52.660 you know like they've never experienced in the whole time of the

01:00:55.580 trouble

01:00:55.800 so it can be done

01:00:57.300 and there you had you know it's not massively dissimilar

01:00:59.640 you've got you know not a massive land area and you've got

01:01:02.720 warring factions of similar people

01:01:05.500 you know people forget there's over a million Arab Israelis

01:01:08.560 right

01:01:09.680 so it can be done

01:01:11.160 I remember getting a

01:01:11.980 my first trip to Jerusalem

01:01:14.340 to interview Netanyahu for CNN

01:01:15.680 back in 2011-12

01:01:17.560 and I went with my Jewish producer

01:01:19.880 and he deliberately stopped me at a cafe

01:01:22.440 on route from the airport to Jerusalem

01:01:24.480 and I looked around

01:01:26.200 I thought it's a bit weird

01:01:27.260 and I said

01:01:27.620 am I missing something

01:01:30.460 he said what

01:01:31.000 he was laughing

01:01:31.640 I said

01:01:32.160 not half the people in here are Arabs

01:01:34.320 and half Jewish

01:01:35.060 he went

01:01:35.460 yeah

01:01:36.080 I said it isn't like three miles away

01:01:38.680 just like this would be completely unthinkable

01:01:40.960 he went yeah

01:01:41.460 it was very like eye opening

01:01:44.600 you haven't been

01:01:45.700 it was that eye opening

01:01:47.460 it's like wow

01:01:48.500 okay so why can't this get resolved

01:01:50.620 so I think it can get resolved

01:01:52.140 but never while Netanyahu is leading Israel

01:01:55.820 and never

01:01:57.460 you've got to remember how far back it goes with him

01:01:59.580 I've been in his office when he pointed to a picture of his brother

01:02:02.740 who died in the raid on Entebbe

01:02:04.660 he was a captain in the Israeli special forces

01:02:07.260 and he teared up looking at that

01:02:10.960 right

01:02:11.480 his dad was a massive hardliner

01:02:13.260 it's in his blood

01:02:14.640 it's in his family

01:02:15.440 they've all suffered a lot of loss

01:02:17.100 as did a lot of people in Northern Ireland

01:02:18.540 but I do think the parallel with Northern Ireland

01:02:21.200 is that fresh eyes came in

01:02:23.300 fresh determination

01:02:24.320 fresh will

01:02:25.420 this only gets resolved when there's a two-state solution

01:02:28.220 and does anyone seriously think Netanyahu will ever allow that?

01:02:32.220 no

01:02:32.820 does anyone think

01:02:33.760 there is no one who believes in a two-state solution anymore

01:02:36.580 okay

01:02:36.880 genuinely

01:02:37.280 alright but there were periods when nobody thought

01:02:38.980 you could ever get peace in Northern Ireland

01:02:40.160 that's fair

01:02:40.640 and I just think that it needs new leadership

01:02:43.060 on the Palestinian side

01:02:44.760 new government in Israel

01:02:46.280 and you have to have a new collective will

01:02:48.640 helped by other Arab countries

01:02:50.320 who I think many of them

01:02:51.340 have been putting their fingers in their ears

01:02:54.420 head in the sand

01:02:55.420 hoping this all goes away

01:02:56.600 that has to stop too

01:02:58.060 you've got to have a different way of looking at this

01:03:00.560 but ultimately

01:03:01.400 as I say to all my Israeli guests

01:03:04.020 give me one good reason

01:03:06.140 why a Palestinian

01:03:07.020 should have less human rights than you

01:03:09.080 just give me one

01:03:10.480 give me one good reason

01:03:11.580 why it's right

01:03:12.540 that Israel

01:03:13.340 whether you want to call yourselves

01:03:15.120 occupiers or not

01:03:16.460 had the ability

01:03:17.640 the moment this war started

01:03:19.120 to turn off the

01:03:20.500 electricity supplies

01:03:22.240 the water supplies

01:03:23.260 the food supplies

01:03:24.120 because you do

01:03:25.480 in a way

01:03:26.260 occupy

01:03:26.880 Gaza

01:03:27.700 you may not want to admit you do

01:03:29.780 but you do

01:03:30.760 because you have the levers of power

01:03:32.500 over everything

01:03:33.720 and again

01:03:35.160 why is that right

01:03:36.060 would we put up with that in England

01:03:37.300 if the French had that power

01:03:39.080 over us

01:03:39.840 talking about your

01:03:40.760 bringing it home here

01:03:42.100 or something like that happened here

01:03:43.100 would we accept that here

01:03:44.720 would we accept another country

01:03:46.500 except an open border mate

01:03:47.840 well we do

01:03:48.440 but we don't accept another country

01:03:49.980 having to leave as a power

01:03:51.020 over basic essentials

01:03:52.580 it's more complicated

01:03:53.480 well

01:03:54.060 I'll give you an example

01:03:55.000 yeah

01:03:55.220 give you an example

01:03:55.640 so Ukraine controls the supply of water

01:03:58.540 to the Crimea

01:03:59.540 to the Crimean Peninsula

01:04:00.760 which they cut off immediately

01:04:01.900 when the war started

01:04:02.780 right

01:04:03.040 but I take your point

01:04:04.740 I take your point

01:04:05.560 and

01:04:05.780 I guess I'm just curious

01:04:08.440 whether you've heard

01:04:09.640 see

01:04:09.880 the Northern Ireland example

01:04:11.300 I think is a very apt one

01:04:12.340 and I really think you're right

01:04:13.800 about

01:04:14.200 the power of new leadership

01:04:15.820 and a different perspective

01:04:16.860 to approach things

01:04:18.960 in a new way

01:04:19.560 and you saw that

01:04:20.240 with Abraham Accords

01:04:20.980 by the way

01:04:21.380 Jared Kushner

01:04:21.960 went around the Middle East

01:04:22.960 approached things

01:04:24.200 from the ground up

01:04:25.600 he did great

01:04:26.140 and did a great job

01:04:27.180 right

01:04:27.440 but have you heard

01:04:29.620 forget the historical analogies

01:04:32.200 have you heard

01:04:33.300 a proposal

01:04:34.380 of how to deal

01:04:35.340 with this current situation

01:04:36.660 that you are persuaded by

01:04:38.680 well

01:04:38.960 I've heard a proposal

01:04:39.920 that the Americans

01:04:41.400 would lead the rebuilding

01:04:42.580 of Gaza

01:04:43.160 that you would have

01:04:44.740 a new Palestinian

01:04:46.400 election at some point

01:04:48.300 but that Hamas

01:04:49.000 would not be

01:04:49.720 able to field

01:04:50.980 anyone

01:04:51.240 right

01:04:52.600 so they're done

01:04:53.160 politically

01:04:53.680 so they can have no political power

01:04:55.000 or governmental power

01:04:56.000 they're not going to vote

01:04:56.540 for Lib Dems

01:04:57.160 I imagine

01:04:57.640 they're not

01:04:58.600 but the Palestinian people

01:04:59.940 ultimately need to lead

01:05:01.100 the Palestinian

01:05:01.720 led by Palestinians

01:05:03.000 we can all agree on that

01:05:03.940 right

01:05:04.180 so

01:05:04.860 I think

01:05:06.000 we haven't even touched

01:05:06.980 on what's happened

01:05:07.900 on the West Bank

01:05:08.480 with the extremist settlers

01:05:09.940 just grabbing any land

01:05:11.380 they can

01:05:11.680 which is disgusting

01:05:12.400 these are war crimes

01:05:13.860 right

01:05:14.080 so I see war crimes

01:05:15.740 on both sides

01:05:16.480 here

01:05:16.980 and so ultimately

01:05:18.600 how do you resolve this

01:05:19.860 a lot of the extremists

01:05:21.700 on both sides

01:05:22.260 believe they have

01:05:22.800 a God-given right

01:05:23.740 to the land they're on

01:05:25.000 right

01:05:25.540 so you're dealing

01:05:26.040 with a fundamentalist view

01:05:27.580 on both sides

01:05:28.360 you know

01:05:29.060 I don't see any real

01:05:29.900 ideological difference

01:05:30.940 about

01:05:31.220 if one side or the other

01:05:32.960 sees this as their

01:05:33.680 God-given land

01:05:34.760 okay

01:05:35.620 so that's what

01:05:36.280 you're dealing with

01:05:36.920 it makes it a much more

01:05:38.440 much deeper problem

01:05:40.120 than you could just

01:05:41.180 solve in the normal

01:05:41.960 kind of geographic

01:05:42.940 political

01:05:43.540 territorial manner

01:05:44.780 if you like

01:05:45.220 you know

01:05:45.580 I think

01:05:45.800 Ukraine-Russia

01:05:46.800 thing

01:05:47.060 is a much easier

01:05:48.200 thing

01:05:48.580 to resolve

01:05:49.540 ultimately

01:05:50.000 than this

01:05:50.700 because it's not

01:05:51.760 based on a holy war

01:05:52.900 which makes things

01:05:53.960 as we know

01:05:55.060 historically

01:05:55.660 immeasurably

01:05:56.520 more complicated

01:05:57.300 so look

01:05:58.620 what's the answer

01:05:59.400 ultimately you need

01:06:00.620 new Palestinian

01:06:01.400 leadership

01:06:02.100 that genuinely

01:06:03.800 is determined

01:06:05.060 to not allow

01:06:06.860 the extremists

01:06:08.100 like Hamas

01:06:08.760 to rise again

01:06:09.800 not easy

01:06:11.020 easier said than done

01:06:12.280 particularly when

01:06:13.520 you've just had Israel

01:06:14.740 killing 70 to 100,000

01:06:16.620 people

01:06:17.040 that will cause

01:06:18.700 a lot of rage

01:06:19.420 I'm sure

01:06:19.920 which I believe

01:06:21.040 will come back

01:06:21.600 and haunt them

01:06:22.060 I hope I'm wrong

01:06:23.060 you need the Arab

01:06:25.040 leaders

01:06:25.780 around

01:06:26.520 particularly in Saudi Arabia

01:06:27.680 Qatar

01:06:28.540 Dubai

01:06:29.920 and others

01:06:30.560 Egypt

01:06:31.160 Jordan

01:06:31.560 you need them all

01:06:32.780 to get involved

01:06:34.580 and to work out

01:06:37.180 a way

01:06:37.600 that you can create

01:06:38.700 a two-state solution

01:06:40.180 where the

01:06:41.520 Israelis do not feel

01:06:43.720 like their lives

01:06:44.960 are constantly

01:06:45.420 in peril

01:06:46.060 and where the

01:06:47.440 Palestinians feel

01:06:48.340 that they

01:06:48.880 have the same

01:06:49.760 human rights

01:06:50.340 as their neighbours

01:06:50.980 and I don't think

01:06:52.640 that's unachievable

01:06:53.540 but what it needs

01:06:54.640 is really strong

01:06:55.760 leadership

01:06:56.460 I mean let's

01:06:57.080 take the other

01:06:57.520 parallel of Nelson Mandela

01:06:58.580 when he came out of prison

01:06:59.420 he could have gone

01:07:00.280 one of two ways

01:07:01.020 right

01:07:01.760 27 years living

01:07:03.320 in a 6x6 cell

01:07:04.300 he could have come out

01:07:05.340 and led the mother

01:07:06.320 of all revenges

01:07:07.280 couldn't he

01:07:08.080 but he went the other way

01:07:09.180 he chose a much

01:07:11.140 different route

01:07:12.020 than the one

01:07:12.980 that a lot of

01:07:13.680 black South Africans

01:07:14.520 wanted him to do

01:07:15.300 they wanted him

01:07:16.460 to go and kill

01:07:17.020 all the white oppressors

01:07:19.000 and he went

01:07:19.660 no I'm not doing that

01:07:20.580 we're going to

01:07:21.460 unify the country

01:07:22.340 right

01:07:23.360 there's a spirit

01:07:24.560 there which should

01:07:25.200 be adopted too

01:07:25.980 you know

01:07:27.080 if Israel had played

01:07:28.160 this differently

01:07:28.780 from the start

01:07:30.560 I think things

01:07:31.260 could have been

01:07:31.620 extremely different

01:07:32.680 and their reputation

01:07:34.120 around the world

01:07:34.680 would have been

01:07:35.020 extremely different now

01:07:36.100 I think they have

01:07:36.980 massively

01:07:37.680 massively overreacted

01:07:39.780 in such a shockingly

01:07:41.140 disproportionate manner

01:07:42.140 that is ongoing

01:07:43.200 that they're losing

01:07:44.200 all their friends

01:07:44.880 they're losing

01:07:45.560 all their support

01:07:46.300 when even

01:07:48.760 when even

01:07:49.680 the

01:07:50.280 American ambassador

01:07:51.920 to

01:07:53.720 Israel

01:07:54.740 who is about

01:07:56.240 as pro-Israeli

01:07:57.200 as you could

01:07:57.520 possibly get

01:07:58.460 when even

01:07:59.260 he is condemning

01:08:00.120 them for

01:08:01.140 criminal acts

01:08:02.020 and attacking

01:08:02.540 the Catholic Church

01:08:04.100 there where

01:08:04.620 Pope Francis

01:08:05.360 used to call

01:08:05.940 every night

01:08:06.500 famously

01:08:07.440 and for attacking

01:08:08.640 Christians

01:08:09.100 and killing

01:08:09.960 Americans

01:08:10.560 you know

01:08:11.400 when even

01:08:11.720 that's happening

01:08:12.400 right

01:08:13.020 there's a wind

01:08:13.860 of change

01:08:14.320 here

01:08:14.580 I think

01:08:15.880 one of the

01:08:16.220 things

01:08:16.480 I take

01:08:18.220 your point

01:08:18.600 what you're

01:08:18.960 saying

01:08:19.340 and the

01:08:20.120 historical

01:08:20.520 precedence

01:08:21.080 and the

01:08:21.340 example

01:08:21.600 that's fair

01:08:22.000 enough

01:08:22.280 but also

01:08:23.000 we need

01:08:23.460 to acknowledge

01:08:23.920 as well

01:08:24.240 the Islamic

01:08:24.740 fundamentalism

01:08:25.600 that lies

01:08:26.160 at the heart

01:08:26.700 of all

01:08:27.000 of this

01:08:27.340 that is

01:08:28.460 a cancer

01:08:28.940 that is

01:08:29.320 going to be

01:08:29.720 very very

01:08:30.380 difficult

01:08:30.760 to get rid

01:08:31.340 of

01:08:31.500 particularly

01:08:32.220 the more

01:08:32.700 this war

01:08:33.400 goes on

01:08:34.000 the more

01:08:34.960 people become

01:08:35.560 radicalized

01:08:36.400 how do you

01:08:37.520 get rid of

01:08:38.260 that type

01:08:38.800 of ideology

01:08:39.260 listen to

01:08:39.720 what you

01:08:39.940 just said

01:08:40.420 you're

01:08:44.540 actually

01:08:45.060 agreeing

01:08:45.420 with my

01:08:45.880 pretext

01:08:46.360 France's

01:08:46.980 point is

01:08:47.500 there's a

01:08:47.840 difference

01:08:48.180 between

01:08:48.680 Northern

01:08:49.180 Ireland

01:08:49.500 and this

01:08:50.080 because

01:08:50.620 in Northern

01:08:51.080 Ireland

01:08:51.380 people were

01:08:51.920 not putting

01:08:52.360 their own

01:08:52.700 children

01:08:52.960 in front

01:08:53.340 of bombs

01:08:53.720 because

01:08:53.920 they thought

01:08:54.280 they were

01:08:54.500 all going

01:08:54.760 to go

01:08:54.900 to paradise

01:08:55.080 yes

01:08:56.560 but they

01:08:56.880 weren't

01:08:57.060 putting

01:08:57.240 their own

01:08:57.620 children

01:08:57.880 in front

01:08:58.200 of bombs

01:08:58.500 because

01:08:58.720 they thought

01:08:59.040 they were

01:08:59.220 going to

01:08:59.540 paradise

01:08:59.640 I understand

01:09:00.420 that's a big

01:09:01.280 difference

01:09:01.620 it's why

01:09:01.960 I've always

01:09:02.400 been absolutely

01:09:03.700 certain

01:09:04.140 Putin

01:09:04.620 would never

01:09:04.920 use nuclear

01:09:05.360 weapons

01:09:05.700 because he's

01:09:06.580 a materialistic

01:09:07.440 dictator

01:09:07.900 who has

01:09:08.780 built one

01:09:09.300 of the richest

01:09:09.640 fortunes

01:09:10.180 in the

01:09:10.400 world

01:09:10.740 and enjoys

01:09:11.900 the spoils

01:09:12.900 of material

01:09:13.580 goods

01:09:14.140 he's not

01:09:14.880 going to

01:09:15.580 kill himself

01:09:16.300 I just think

01:09:17.560 his logic

01:09:18.440 says he's

01:09:18.840 not going

01:09:19.020 to do

01:09:19.240 that

01:09:19.480 which he

01:09:20.020 knows he

01:09:20.320 would do

01:09:20.600 if he

01:09:20.800 pressed a

01:09:21.140 button

01:09:21.320 so you're

01:09:22.360 dealing with

01:09:22.720 a different

01:09:23.020 ideology

01:09:23.520 I agree

01:09:23.880 although

01:09:24.140 when it

01:09:24.800 comes to

01:09:25.180 fundamentalist

01:09:26.420 extremism

01:09:27.080 I see a lot

01:09:28.100 of that

01:09:28.400 on the

01:09:29.280 really

01:09:30.120 hardcore

01:09:30.900 right side

01:09:32.520 of Israel

01:09:33.420 now

01:09:33.740 right

01:09:34.340 they sound

01:09:35.040 like

01:09:35.380 extremist

01:09:35.940 fundamentalists

01:09:36.700 you know

01:09:37.520 I interviewed

01:09:37.840 one last

01:09:38.380 week

01:09:38.620 absolute

01:09:39.160 crazy

01:09:40.380 woman

01:09:40.820 right

01:09:41.460 who just

01:09:41.860 I kept

01:09:42.700 trying to

01:09:43.000 say to her

01:09:43.240 do you feel

01:09:43.520 any empathy

01:09:44.240 for all the

01:09:45.420 children who

01:09:45.880 died in

01:09:46.240 Palestine

01:09:46.540 nothing

01:09:46.980 there's nothing

01:09:47.880 there at all

01:09:48.440 not a semblance

01:09:49.560 of humanity

01:09:50.160 wants them all

01:09:51.180 out all gone

01:09:52.040 doesn't care

01:09:52.600 I was unashamed

01:09:53.740 about it

01:09:54.580 unashamed about

01:09:55.200 it

01:09:55.360 that's a form

01:09:56.180 of extremism

01:09:57.200 I agree

01:09:57.720 but I also

01:09:58.620 think that the

01:09:59.340 Islamic

01:09:59.660 fundamentalism

01:10:00.740 is a heightened

01:10:01.580 form of even

01:10:02.500 that type of

01:10:03.280 extremism

01:10:03.860 look to be

01:10:04.960 clear

01:10:05.120 I don't

01:10:05.340 like any

01:10:05.780 fundamentals

01:10:06.220 I'll be

01:10:06.740 saying that

01:10:07.080 you do

01:10:07.340 but my

01:10:07.860 point is

01:10:08.600 is if

01:10:09.480 you were

01:10:09.800 willing to

01:10:10.780 put your

01:10:11.220 own children

01:10:12.200 and family

01:10:13.560 in the way

01:10:14.460 of bullets

01:10:15.220 purely for

01:10:16.680 your own

01:10:17.020 ideology

01:10:17.640 then that

01:10:19.820 is something

01:10:20.420 that we

01:10:21.100 really haven't

01:10:21.980 seen that

01:10:22.400 many times

01:10:22.900 before

01:10:23.280 and how

01:10:23.860 do you

01:10:24.200 deal with

01:10:24.640 that

01:10:24.760 well we

01:10:25.200 saw it

01:10:25.560 with

01:10:25.820 ISIS

01:10:26.160 and they

01:10:27.040 got pretty

01:10:27.520 well dismantled

01:10:28.240 we saw it

01:10:28.580 with Al-Qaeda

01:10:29.180 they got

01:10:30.080 pretty well

01:10:30.600 dismantled

01:10:31.220 you know

01:10:32.000 it's not

01:10:33.100 like the

01:10:33.340 world is

01:10:33.800 short of

01:10:34.660 ideas of

01:10:35.120 how to

01:10:35.320 go after

01:10:35.640 terror

01:10:35.900 groups

01:10:36.220 right

01:10:36.860 there's

01:10:37.040 plenty

01:10:37.240 of history

01:10:37.780 to suggest

01:10:38.580 there are

01:10:38.900 ways to

01:10:39.220 do it

01:10:39.540 right

01:10:40.080 but

01:10:40.420 I just

01:10:41.880 don't know

01:10:42.220 what Israel's

01:10:42.860 government

01:10:43.080 thinks it's

01:10:43.600 now achieving

01:10:44.240 that really

01:10:45.180 is the

01:10:45.480 fundamental

01:10:45.900 question

01:10:46.400 what are

01:10:47.320 they achieving

01:10:48.000 other than

01:10:48.620 making Israel

01:10:49.600 a more

01:10:51.020 unpopular

01:10:51.520 country

01:10:52.180 globally

01:10:52.920 and making

01:10:53.700 its people

01:10:54.360 more

01:10:55.440 unsafe

01:10:56.900 those are

01:10:58.080 the two

01:10:58.340 things I

01:10:58.700 think are

01:10:59.000 happening

01:10:59.300 now

01:10:59.600 on an

01:11:00.260 increasing

01:11:00.720 rate

01:11:01.300 on a

01:11:02.000 daily

01:11:02.180 basis

01:11:02.560 so I

01:11:03.200 simply

01:11:03.480 say to

01:11:03.840 Netanyahu

01:11:04.280 how does

01:11:05.160 that work

01:11:05.680 how does

01:11:06.880 that work

01:11:07.300 for you

01:11:07.700 right

01:11:08.420 and if

01:11:09.040 your actual

01:11:09.600 plan

01:11:10.040 is to get

01:11:11.140 all Palestinians

01:11:11.960 out of Gaza

01:11:12.540 say it

01:11:13.160 and be judged

01:11:14.000 accordingly

01:11:14.460 and then the

01:11:15.500 world can wake

01:11:16.040 up to what I

01:11:16.580 think is the

01:11:17.100 plan

01:11:17.360 which is the

01:11:18.100 one that

01:11:18.380 Smodrich has

01:11:18.920 been openly

01:11:19.600 talking about

01:11:20.260 which is they

01:11:21.240 want to

01:11:21.460 cleanse

01:11:21.820 Palestine

01:11:22.440 and Gazas

01:11:23.020 that's

01:11:23.960 ethnic

01:11:24.320 cleansing

01:11:24.720 on a scale

01:11:26.420 we haven't

01:11:26.840 seen in

01:11:27.200 modern times

01:11:27.840 Piers

01:11:28.760 we're going

01:11:29.160 to ask you

01:11:29.520 some spicy

01:11:30.040 questions from

01:11:30.680 our audience

01:11:31.140 on Substack

01:11:31.740 in a second

01:11:32.200 they've sent

01:11:32.660 in a bunch

01:11:33.120 before we do

01:11:34.140 as you know

01:11:34.540 we always end

01:11:35.020 with the same

01:11:35.440 one in the

01:11:36.240 main interview

01:11:36.680 itself which is

01:11:37.280 what's the one

01:11:37.740 thing we're not

01:11:38.260 talking about

01:11:38.860 that we should

01:11:39.280 be

01:11:39.480 before Piers

01:11:40.760 answers the

01:11:41.440 final question

01:11:42.140 at the end

01:11:42.760 of the interview

01:11:43.260 make sure to

01:11:43.900 head over

01:11:44.160 to our

01:11:44.440 Substack

01:11:45.000 the link

01:11:45.720 is in the

01:11:46.100 description

01:11:46.540 where you'll

01:11:47.400 be able

01:11:47.720 to see

01:11:48.160 this

01:11:48.700 does Piers

01:11:49.720 ever find it

01:11:50.560 a challenge

01:11:50.980 to balance

01:11:51.460 entertainment

01:11:52.060 clickbait

01:11:52.740 value

01:11:53.160 versus

01:11:53.680 expertise

01:11:54.460 insight

01:11:55.020 and civility

01:11:55.640 there were

01:11:56.360 many many

01:11:56.920 questions about

01:11:57.980 Natasha

01:11:58.400 House

01:11:58.740 or

01:11:58.960 people feel

01:11:59.840 that you

01:12:00.140 were

01:12:00.320 disrespectful

01:12:01.020 you often

01:12:01.880 make the

01:12:02.280 claim that

01:12:02.760 Israel doesn't

01:12:03.420 allow western

01:12:04.080 journalists into

01:12:04.720 Gaza as they

01:12:05.460 are hiding

01:12:05.840 the truth

01:12:06.340 yet he says

01:12:07.600 journalists can

01:12:08.300 enter Syria

01:12:08.920 and report on

01:12:09.580 the slaughter

01:12:10.000 of the Druze

01:12:10.660 yet they choose

01:12:11.540 not to

01:12:12.020 why is that

01:12:12.720 what's the one

01:12:13.640 thing we're not

01:12:14.160 talking about

01:12:14.780 that we should

01:12:15.180 be

01:12:15.420 well

01:12:16.400 Arsenal's new

01:12:17.020 striker

01:12:17.480 obviously

01:12:18.240 big

01:12:18.960 to go

01:12:19.260 I'm amazed

01:12:20.460 you ever

01:12:22.840 raised this

01:12:23.360 earlier

01:12:23.660 the thing is

01:12:25.600 I go through

01:12:26.680 a lot of

01:12:27.060 stress in my

01:12:27.860 day job

01:12:28.300 like you guys

01:12:28.920 do

01:12:29.160 but ultimately

01:12:30.200 you talk about

01:12:31.000 fundamentalism

01:12:31.920 I am a

01:12:32.980 Arsenal

01:12:33.420 fundamentalist

01:12:34.240 and we have

01:12:35.220 not had a

01:12:36.360 proper striker

01:12:37.440 for years

01:12:38.160 and it now

01:12:38.940 looks like

01:12:39.540 we're going to

01:12:40.440 get Victor

01:12:41.060 Jacarez

01:12:41.780 who is the

01:12:42.340 highest scorer

01:12:43.180 in European

01:12:44.180 football

01:12:44.740 in the last

01:12:45.620 in the Portuguese

01:12:46.320 league

01:12:46.840 and let's

01:12:47.580 be fair

01:12:49.080 a lot of

01:12:49.620 strikers

01:12:50.020 from the

01:12:50.320 Portuguese

01:12:50.680 league

01:12:51.140 have come

01:12:51.580 and failed

01:12:52.020 he scored

01:12:52.420 a hat-trick

01:12:52.860 against

01:12:53.120 Manchester

01:12:53.480 City

01:12:53.780 and he's

01:12:54.040 been banging

01:12:54.520 them in

01:12:54.820 the Champions

01:12:55.260 League

01:12:55.480 this is

01:12:56.760 the pathway

01:12:57.500 to glory

01:12:58.620 Arsenal

01:12:59.360 will now

01:13:00.020 win

01:13:00.260 trophies

01:13:00.720 this season

01:13:01.260 make you sound

01:13:01.820 like a fucking

01:13:02.420 fundamentalist

01:13:03.260 I'm telling you

01:13:03.940 I did say that

01:13:05.220 to start with

01:13:05.780 but that's what

01:13:06.740 we're not talking

01:13:07.280 about

01:13:07.540 which I'm

01:13:07.900 just surprised

01:13:08.400 about

01:13:08.760 as Bill Shankly

01:13:12.400 once said

01:13:12.900 football is not

01:13:14.060 a matter of

01:13:14.820 life or death

01:13:15.420 it's way more

01:13:16.120 important than that

01:13:16.920 there we go

01:13:17.980 head on over

01:13:18.520 to Substack

01:13:19.120 where we ask

01:13:19.740 peers your

01:13:20.520 questions

01:13:21.020 after your

01:13:23.520 experience of

01:13:24.180 what turned out

01:13:24.780 to be fake

01:13:25.320 news of UK

01:13:26.000 soldiers abusing

01:13:26.840 Iraqis

01:13:27.420 why are you so

01:13:28.460 quick to repeat

01:13:29.140 news on Gaza

01:13:29.920 and criticize Israel

01:13:30.980 when the info

01:13:31.820 comes from Hamas

01:13:32.780 and Hamas

01:13:33.260 sympathizers

01:13:34.000 you

01:13:34.700 you

01:13:34.740 you

01:13:34.760 you

01:13:35.660 you

01:13:55.940 you

TRIGGERnometry - August 03, 2025

Piers Morgan - “Israel Has Gone Too Far”

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