TRIGGERnometry - Politics, Religion & Cancel Culture - Jimmy Carr

00:00:01.000 You want to hear my big idea for American politics?

00:00:03.000 Go on.

00:00:04.000 There'll never be reparations.

00:00:05.000 OK, I've got some great news.

00:00:07.000 There's still 40 million slaves in the world.

00:00:09.000 I'll tell you why it's great news.

00:00:10.000 It gives American rights.

00:00:13.000 So I can't joke about anyone with a disability

00:00:16.000 because they're below me.

00:00:17.000 Oh, that's a great way to see the world.

00:00:19.000 And you're above them, are you?

00:00:21.000 So you wouldn't joke about them

00:00:22.000 because you're better than them, are you?

00:00:24.000 Michael Gove recently came out and was going...

00:00:27.000 Did he?

00:00:29.000 Well, that's an exclusive, isn't it?

00:00:31.000 I think we all knew.

00:00:33.000 Pay up.

00:00:34.000 You're watching this for free.

00:00:35.000 Get the locals.

00:00:36.000 It's worth getting it.

00:00:38.000 When the prime minister of the country that you live in

00:00:40.000 breaks off from the G20 summit to do a press conference

00:00:42.000 about your personal tax affairs,

00:00:44.000 that's going to be a problem.

00:00:45.000 When is Jimmy going to apologise for his take on vaccines?

00:00:52.000 No wonder they're not going to take the vaccine. 0.99

00:00:54.000 They can't even take a fucking joke. 1.00

00:00:56.000 Anyone in the Illuminati gets it first. 1.00

00:00:59.000 That's the viral bit, right?

00:01:03.000 Well, first things first.

00:01:04.000 Why do you want this job?

00:01:06.000 It feels like that, doesn't it, guys?

00:01:08.000 Yeah.

00:01:09.000 It does.

00:01:10.000 It feels like I'm applying for a job in an investment bank.

00:01:12.000 Exactly.

00:01:13.000 Yeah.

00:01:14.000 Well, you are the sharpest dress guest that we've probably ever had.

00:01:18.000 You know, I come correct.

00:01:19.000 Look, how you do anything is how you do everything.

00:01:22.000 So, you know, stick a tie on.

00:01:24.000 Make an effort.

00:01:25.000 It's a podcast.

00:01:26.000 He's talking to you, man.

00:01:27.000 At least I've got a jacket.

00:01:28.000 Yeah.

00:01:29.000 Anyway, listen, Jimmy, welcome.

00:01:30.000 Thank you.

00:01:31.000 It's great to have you on.

00:01:32.000 We've been in touch for a while.

00:01:33.000 But one of the things that we wanted to talk to you about, we want to talk to you about comedy and mindset and all sorts of stuff.

00:01:39.000 Sure.

00:01:40.000 But the stuff that we often talk about, as you know, because you watch the show, is culture war and politics and all of this stuff.

00:01:45.000 And it sort of feels like it's not something you've been commenting on much, but you are starting to take an interest in this stuff.

00:01:52.000 I was taking interest.

00:01:54.000 I have, I can't, lots of my degree was politics and sociology and kind of, you know, studying Foucault and Marcuse and Adorno and Lyotard and all those kind of guys.

00:02:05.000 Right kind of, you know, in the 90s when that stuff was really taken off.

00:02:08.000 It seems to have escaped the lab.

00:02:10.000 Yeah.

00:02:11.000 The kind of cultural Marxist thing. And I don't know, it's a very strange world now where sort of Marxism and the left have left, they've left economics behind.

00:02:20.000 And it strikes me that the most important factor is money in the modern world in terms of, you know, the equality of opportunity.

00:02:27.000 I mean, the idea that there'll be equality of outcome just seems like a nonsense to me.

00:02:32.000 It's just never going to happen because we're not, you know, equality of effort doesn't exist and we're all given different gifts.

00:02:38.000 You know, I think we, so much of it is, is, is, is nature.

00:02:42.000 You know, and so much of nurture is nature.

00:02:44.000 So much of it is just, it's our factory settings.

00:02:47.000 This is how we come out.

00:02:48.000 I mean, what you want to do is, is give people agency.

00:02:51.000 That seems to be the, the, the, the great sort of freeing factor.

00:02:54.000 So I don't know about, you know, politics I never really comment on, but it strikes me that the great, the saddest thing in my life was when universities started charging.

00:03:02.000 That for me was the, was just the, the, the end in terms of going, that was the, that was the ability to move from class to class.

00:03:11.000 Yeah.

00:03:12.000 You know, I'm, I'm a, I don't read as this at all.

00:03:15.000 So you sort of have to say it, but I'm sort of first generation immigrant, Irish parents moved over in the early seventies.

00:03:20.000 So economic migrants, and we did very well.

00:03:24.000 And I think that's, I think there's something about migrants that we don't talk about enough. 0.93

00:03:29.000 They're incredible high agency people.

00:03:31.000 We're all from elsewhere a generation ago.

00:03:34.000 And, and you, you go, what's great about London?

00:03:36.000 Why is it the greatest city in the world?

00:03:38.000 Well, migration, it's, it's, it's amazing sort of melting pot of energy and, and people with kind of hopes and dreams and aspirations.

00:03:46.000 It's fantastic.

00:03:47.000 We should be encouraging more of it.

00:03:49.000 Hmm.

00:03:50.000 It's, it's interesting that you say that because there's the way that you present and the way that you appear are two very different things.

00:03:59.000 Well, I think you have to be aware in the world about, um, it's character and reputation, isn't it?

00:04:03.000 Yeah.

00:04:04.000 So you have your character, what you know about yourself, and then you have your reputation.

00:04:07.000 You have to be aware how you're perceived in the world, right?

00:04:10.000 You can't just sort of just assume, well, everyone, everyone will know.

00:04:14.000 I'm aware how I sound and I sound like Silver Spoon.

00:04:17.000 I sound like I probably went to public school.

00:04:19.000 I went to the local grammar school.

00:04:21.000 So I'm a big advocate for the grammar school system.

00:04:23.000 Yeah.

00:04:24.000 Because it was fantastic for me.

00:04:25.000 You know, the idea of going, well, everyone's got sort of different abilities.

00:04:28.000 You know, some people are very academic and some people aren't.

00:04:30.000 And it's, it's, in our society, it's like, it's painted like there's better and worse.

00:04:34.000 Well, it isn't.

00:04:35.000 I much prefer sort of the German system where a lot of people just are very good at doing practical things and they do very well.

00:04:41.000 Because I think that's the thing that we kind of, we do in this country.

00:04:47.000 In that we look at somebody and we go, oh, you must belong to this class.

00:04:51.000 Therefore, you have this opinion. Therefore, you've had this background.

00:04:55.000 When the reality is, it's actually more complex than that.

00:04:59.000 Well, I think that, but there's a lot of, you know, non-player characters.

00:05:03.000 Is that what they call them?

00:05:04.000 Yes.

00:05:05.000 NPCs.

00:05:06.000 NPCs.

00:05:07.000 So you go, there's a lot of NPCs out there.

00:05:08.000 Single data point human beings.

00:05:10.000 So what's your view on whatever it is, whatever the issue, what's your view on the environment?

00:05:15.000 And you go, oh, I know what you think about everything from that one data point.

00:05:19.000 And I'm not interested.

00:05:21.000 I like to be surprised.

00:05:22.000 Yeah.

00:05:23.000 I like to, and it's also that thing of like, you go, well, politics.

00:05:25.000 I think I'm, I'm very wary of people that are into a political party.

00:05:29.000 Because it strikes me, it's like the set menu.

00:05:32.000 Like if you know nothing about Chinese food, nothing the matter with a set menu.

00:05:35.000 But if you've been a couple of times, you know what you like, you know what you don't like.

00:05:38.000 And you have different opinions on different things.

00:05:40.000 You know, Chris Rock has got this amazing routine about left wing, right wing.

00:05:44.000 You know, are you Republican?

00:05:45.000 Are you Democrat?

00:05:46.000 Well, what's the issue?

00:05:47.000 Because if it's about theft, I'm a Republican.

00:05:50.000 And if it's about prostitution, I'm a Democrat.

00:05:53.000 You know, you move left and right depending on what the issue is.

00:05:56.000 Yeah.

00:05:57.000 Well, that's something interesting that I, as you might know, I call myself politically non-binary.

00:06:01.000 And people always ask me about this.

00:06:03.000 Because my thing is like, you've got to think for yourself about different issues.

00:06:07.000 And you might end up being right on this and left on that.

00:06:11.000 And that's kind of normal.

00:06:13.000 Well, isn't that an awful thing with politicians now where we talk about hypocrisy?

00:06:18.000 And we talk, well, you said this five years ago.

00:06:20.000 Yeah.

00:06:21.000 The facts changed.

00:06:22.000 The facts keep on changing.

00:06:23.000 People forget Obama ran on an anti-gay marriage ticket.

00:06:26.000 Right?

00:06:27.000 And I think we all agree he's a pretty good guy.

00:06:28.000 Yeah.

00:06:29.000 But that was, he was of his time.

00:06:31.000 And things have changed and more for the better.

00:06:33.000 And there is kind of progress.

00:06:34.000 I don't agree it was a bigger mate.

00:06:37.000 Isn't that like a weird thing where you go, it's all seen as left and right.

00:06:41.000 Yeah.

00:06:42.000 And I don't see it like that.

00:06:43.000 I see it like it's authoritarian or sort of libertarian.

00:06:47.000 You know, there's more liberty and freedom or there's more authority.

00:06:50.000 And it doesn't matter whether it's left or right.

00:06:52.000 It strikes me in the last hundred years, we've only really learned one lesson.

00:06:56.000 We've learned that fascism is wrong.

00:06:58.000 It's a great lesson.

00:06:59.000 It's a valuable lesson, but it's only half the story.

00:07:01.000 Because communism's also wrong and toxic and awful.

00:07:05.000 And, you know, the people in, I know you're from Venezuela, the people in South America still know it.

00:07:09.000 Yeah.

00:07:10.000 And the people in Eastern Europe still know it.

00:07:12.000 But we seem to, there's people walking around in Chairman Mao t-shirts, like venerating these pricks.

00:07:20.000 It's insane.

00:07:21.000 And it is that authoritarian thing.

00:07:23.000 It sort of comes around in a circle.

00:07:24.000 It's about that kind of authority from above.

00:07:26.000 And do you think part of this is, Jimmy, that we've, in the West particularly, we've just got so comfortable that a lot of these crazy ideas now just, they're quite tempting because we've sort of got nothing better to think about.

00:07:37.000 I think, I mean, I think gratitude is the mother of all virtues.

00:07:41.000 And I think the more gratitude you have, the better your life is.

00:07:45.000 But from a political standpoint, I think the thing about gratitude is we can't even see the freedoms that we've had.

00:07:52.000 We don't even conceive of, it's kind of the Chesterton's fence.

00:07:56.000 The idea that we don't know what the U.S. Navy is for because we've so taken it for granted the last 70 years.

00:08:03.000 And really, it's only when, I mean, if you look at kind of the sweep of what's going on in the world today, I'm sure your listeners and viewers are very aware, but the idea that really since the fall of the Berlin Wall, America has become more isolationist with every single president, right?

00:08:19.000 So they're pulling back and they're spending less on their navy.

00:08:21.000 And I'm sure lots of people would go, well, good, good.

00:08:24.000 What do we need?

00:08:25.000 America is the policeman of the world.

00:08:26.000 Well, we do need that because that's what globalization is.

00:08:29.000 And it isn't for America to make money.

00:08:31.000 They did it for ideological reasons.

00:08:33.000 They did it to bring down communism.

00:08:35.000 And it worked.

00:08:36.000 They guaranteed free trade.

00:08:38.000 They're net exporters of fuel and food.

00:08:41.000 They don't need us.

00:08:42.000 We need them.

00:08:43.000 And they protected everything for the longest time.

00:08:47.000 And now we see that kind of recede slightly and things start to get very fractious.

00:08:52.000 I mean, I think getting America more involved and engaged in the world would be a fantastic thing.

00:08:57.000 It would be good for everyone.

00:08:58.000 Totally.

00:08:59.000 The danger that we're currently facing is what you've alluded to, where people think that this is life.

00:09:07.000 This is how it's always going to be.

00:09:09.000 And this is how it always was.

00:09:11.000 And the bad times, yeah, they were the bad times.

00:09:13.000 But now this is always how it is.

00:09:15.000 It's the end of history.

00:09:16.000 When the reality is, this is just the moment.

00:09:18.000 Well, that was the era, is it Fukuyama?

00:09:22.000 Yeah.

00:09:23.000 That was the era I was at university for, where it was really liberal democracy was kind of being exported around the world.

00:09:29.000 And, you know, the Berlin Wall had just come down and it was a victory and there was an extraordinary sort of time. 0.89

00:09:37.000 It was a very peaceful time.

00:09:38.000 Hopeful time as well.

00:09:39.000 But then America kind of receded.

00:09:40.000 They pulled back.

00:09:41.000 And actually, you know, there's kind of this chaos going on as a result of that.

00:09:45.000 I'd like to get them more engaged in the world.

00:09:47.000 You want to hear my big idea for American politics?

00:09:49.000 Go on.

00:09:50.000 All right.

00:09:51.000 It's a big idea.

00:09:52.000 Right.

00:09:53.000 So there'll never be reparations, right?

00:09:54.000 There should be.

00:09:55.000 The slavery was terrible and reparations is a good idea. 0.99

00:09:57.000 But they'll never.

00:09:58.000 It's too complicated.

00:09:59.000 It's to unpick that.

00:10:00.000 It's going to be, okay, I've got some great news.

00:10:02.000 There's still 40 million slaves in the world.

00:10:05.000 I'll tell you why it's great news.

00:10:06.000 It gives America a lot.

00:10:08.000 No, it gives America. 0.56

00:10:10.000 People.

00:10:11.000 That's making the trailer.

00:10:13.000 Part of the episode.

00:10:15.000 People don't do well without purpose.

00:10:17.000 And nations don't do well without purpose.

00:10:19.000 And America doesn't really have a purpose at the moment.

00:10:21.000 I think that would be a great foreign policy for America.

00:10:24.000 We're going to stop slavery.

00:10:26.000 We're going to stop slavery around the world.

00:10:28.000 Okay, you've got six weeks.

00:10:29.000 If you've got slaves, you've got to free them.

00:10:31.000 Anywhere in the world.

00:10:32.000 And otherwise, we're cleaning house.

00:10:34.000 They've got the resource to do it.

00:10:36.000 They've got the reason to do it if they want to correct that.

00:10:39.000 They've got a blot on their history, right?

00:10:41.000 And, you know, Britain did it.

00:10:44.000 Britain did it after they, you know, were the first to abolish slavery.

00:10:46.000 And then we spent about, you know, 100 years, 150 years patrolling the seas with our navy.

00:10:50.000 Well, that's no longer our role in the world.

00:10:52.000 We've got a different role now.

00:10:54.000 You know, what's our purpose?

00:10:55.000 We'll come on to that.

00:10:56.000 But the idea of, like, America ending slavery globally, I could get behind that.

00:11:01.000 I think that's, like, not a terrible idea.

00:11:03.000 And what's the British purpose, Jimmy?

00:11:05.000 Well, I think Britain could serve as an example.

00:11:08.000 That's really the best we could hope for now.

00:11:10.000 We're not running the show anymore.

00:11:12.000 But we've left an incredible sort of gift to the world in our language and in our culture.

00:11:19.000 And I think we could, I mean, broadly speaking, I think we should have bitten America's arm off when they offered us a trade deal post-Brexit.

00:11:27.000 Japan went for that deal.

00:11:29.000 We turned our noses up.

00:11:31.000 We went over there and we had a look at it and we went, oh, no, that's not right for us.

00:11:35.000 We should have bitten their arm off. 0.99

00:11:36.000 They're going to have the most incredible 20 years.

00:11:38.000 The next 20 years for America, they can afford to have a terrible political system because the gifts that they have geographically and demographically, they are just in the sweet spot, the absolute sweet spot.

00:11:52.000 So they've got Canada above, Mexico below. 0.97

00:11:55.000 They're going to double their manufacturing base over the next 20 years, right?

00:11:58.000 That's clearly going to happen.

00:11:59.000 They're going to take all the stuff that was made in China. 0.89

00:12:01.000 They can say, look, we can't trust these supply lines.

00:12:03.000 We have to make it all at home.

00:12:05.000 It's going to be a boom time for the states.

00:12:07.000 I think we should, you know, pin ourselves to that.

00:12:11.000 You're not worried about the states because we get loads of people coming on who are saying, you know, this is the end time for the United States, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, et cetera, et cetera.

00:12:19.000 But you're not worried at all.

00:12:20.000 What?

00:12:21.000 Who's worried about America?

00:12:24.000 Why would you worry about America?

00:12:25.000 It's never been objectively better.

00:12:27.000 I'll give you, it's never been subjectively worse.

00:12:30.000 Right?

00:12:31.000 People think it's like you go over there.

00:12:32.000 I travel around a lot in America.

00:12:33.000 I do a lot of tours.

00:12:34.000 And I'm lucky enough that I don't just do the big cities.

00:12:37.000 I also get to do kind of the B cities.

00:12:39.000 Incredible places.

00:12:40.000 Wonderful places to live.

00:12:41.000 The land of milk and honey.

00:12:43.000 But again, there's maybe a lack of gratitude because they can't see how fabulous this is.

00:12:48.000 Yeah.

00:12:49.000 People will cross oceans to get to America because the gift they gave the world was their, you know, classic liberalism.

00:12:57.000 Right?

00:12:58.000 The idea that the document, the idea that, and that's why they kind of run the world still is the Declaration of Independence.

00:13:07.000 It's a fantastic document.

00:13:09.000 Really, when you think about kind of classic liberalism and what's that about, what do we all sort of agree on?

00:13:15.000 We're not gods.

00:13:16.000 We have no God-given right to rule over people.

00:13:20.000 Well, you start with that and you very quickly get to the rights of man.

00:13:24.000 And the idea that, you know, we can rule, but it has to be by consensus and it has to be just.

00:13:29.000 And when people need rights and they need the right to free speech and they need the right to protest is very important and the right to petition.

00:13:35.000 All of these things come from that sort of initial premise.

00:13:38.000 And that document is just, it's genius.

00:13:40.000 And yeah, America's got its problems, but they're all fixable.

00:13:44.000 Well, this is the thing that I think people are concerned about in terms of America.

00:13:48.000 So, levels of political polarization.

00:13:51.000 It's not the first time America has been politically polarized if you read history.

00:13:54.000 I do remember there being a civil war.

00:13:56.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:13:57.000 I mean, the thing, I kind of think that thing about the certain, there's a certain sort of, certain people that are just so shocked by the state of the world.

00:14:05.000 You go, have you never read any history?

00:14:07.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:14:08.000 Like, spatially and temporally, they're ignorant of the world. 0.93

00:14:11.000 So, everything, I can, it must be such a shock. 0.92

00:14:14.000 Yeah.

00:14:15.000 Like, you know, there's a war and they go, oh my God, this is awful.

00:14:17.000 Have you read about the second world war?

00:14:19.000 It was awful.

00:14:20.000 You know, it's that, that, I think I picked up the fact from the show actually, the, the idea that we did, we did a Hiroshima every six weeks in Europe.

00:14:29.000 Yeah, that was something I talked about.

00:14:30.000 Throughout the last two years of the war.

00:14:32.000 And no one really talks about that.

00:14:34.000 And the, the, the idea that the, that wasn't an easy thing to do.

00:14:38.000 That wasn't, it wasn't simple, but it was a, a terrible war.

00:14:41.000 It was a just war, but wars are awful.

00:14:43.000 Of course they are.

00:14:44.000 And the more you know about history, the more you think, well actually this is, these are, these are the best times.

00:14:48.000 I don't want to sound like Steven Pinker.

00:14:49.000 I know Steven Pinker gets given a hard time for this, but the world's pretty great at the moment.

00:14:53.000 No, but let me give you some more things that people talk about in terms of America.

00:14:57.000 Because I agree, like Francis and I travel to the US regularly now.

00:15:00.000 We absolutely love it.

00:15:01.000 I think it's, it's incredible.

00:15:03.000 It's the most incredible place.

00:15:04.000 I think I, I think the gun laws, right?

00:15:06.000 Okay.

00:15:07.000 So that's the thing that comes up over here and we can't understand because it's not part of our, our psyche.

00:15:10.000 Okay.

00:15:11.000 So, so it's, you know, we've got other stuff that we worry about hunting bands or whatever.

00:15:14.000 We've got our, our things, every nation's got a thing.

00:15:17.000 I think the secret to the, the gun thing might be gun clubs.

00:15:22.000 So collective responsibility.

00:15:24.000 You say you can have a gun, but you have to be a member of a club.

00:15:27.000 You have to find a thousand other people to be in a gun club and you all support each other.

00:15:32.000 And then there's a level of collective responsibility.

00:15:35.000 So if one of those guns is used in a crime, you don't go to jail, but there's a fine for everyone.

00:15:40.000 Because you let one of your guys get out of hand and you didn't check on their mental health.

00:15:45.000 And so you go, you come together and you form you.

00:15:48.000 The thing I worry about is a lone guy on his own, an individual with a gun.

00:15:53.000 I don't worry about groups, groups of, you know, groups of people.

00:15:56.000 There's, there's something, there's something great about that.

00:15:59.000 You know, but that's our superpower as human beings.

00:16:01.000 You know, you put one guy in the jungle, you fed the animals, you put a hundred guys down.

00:16:05.000 You've got a new apex predator.

00:16:07.000 I'm not worried about groups.

00:16:08.000 So you go, we'll put those groups together.

00:16:10.000 The genius of this, of course, if you don't agree and you don't want this to happen in America,

00:16:15.000 you're going to get together with your mates that own guns and protest against it.

00:16:19.000 Well, you've already formed a club.

00:16:20.000 I'm already having it.

00:16:22.000 Fantastic.

00:16:23.000 I think that's the thing though.

00:16:24.000 The collective, the group, the tribe, is that's what's kind of missing a little bit.

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00:16:58.000 The community, which is what a lot of people talk about being lost.

00:17:01.000 Well, the worship of the individual above all else.

00:17:04.000 It's like the dose is the problem.

00:17:05.000 Yes, we're individuals and we have individual rights, but there's also, there's something above that,

00:17:09.000 which is kind of the group and the tribe and people are searching, you know,

00:17:13.000 there's a God-shaped hole in all of us and we're searching for things.

00:17:17.000 And for some people it's politics.

00:17:19.000 You know, sometimes I listen to this show and people are sort of talking about politics like it's going to offer nirvana.

00:17:25.000 You go, no, no, we should avoid catastrophe with politics and then search for your own personal peace elsewhere.

00:17:33.000 Are you a believer, Jimmy?

00:17:35.000 No, no, I'm not. 1.00

00:17:36.000 Although, I think there's two types of idiots. 1.00

00:17:38.000 There's people that believe literally in fairy stories and then there's people that think there's no purpose in religion. 1.00

00:17:45.000 And they're both idiots. 1.00

00:17:48.000 Pete, uh, Pete Holmes. 1.00

00:17:51.000 You know the American comedy?

00:17:52.000 Yeah, I know.

00:17:53.000 Really good guy.

00:17:54.000 He had the Great Lightning special and it's a quote from ACDC's Roddy about religion.

00:18:01.000 Okay.

00:18:02.000 He says, God is the name we give the blanket, we throw over the mystery to give it shape.

00:18:07.000 Wow.

00:18:08.000 I love that.

00:18:09.000 Yeah.

00:18:10.000 Because it encompasses everyone, right?

00:18:12.000 We all know there's a mystery.

00:18:14.000 We all know we don't know.

00:18:16.000 And we throw something over that mystery and give it shape.

00:18:20.000 For some of it's, for me it would be, it's science and technology and progress and the idea that we are incredible.

00:18:30.000 Human beings are incredible.

00:18:32.000 Yeah.

00:18:33.000 And I lost my religion when I was in my mid-twenties.

00:18:36.000 I kind of miss it.

00:18:37.000 I miss it.

00:18:38.000 There's a certain melancholy that, you know, when you pass a big church, you kind of go, well, yeah, it's a nice...

00:18:45.000 You know, I think church works not because God's pleased by the ritual, but because the people came together.

00:18:52.000 Yeah.

00:18:53.000 And I feel that sometimes at comedy shows.

00:18:55.000 I feel sometimes like, why are people obsessed by going to comedy shows or going to Glastonbury and feeling part of this big thing and they all want to be part of a group.

00:19:02.000 I saw a couple of bands recently play live.

00:19:04.000 I saw the Peche Mode in Paris last week and it was genuinely religious.

00:19:07.000 It was like this incredible experience of like being part of a group and all sort of singing together.

00:19:11.000 It was joyful, beautiful.

00:19:13.000 We've kind of lost a little bit of that.

00:19:14.000 And that's why, you know, when I don't watch as much football as I used to, but when people go, oh, I don't understand why people are football fans. 1.00

00:19:22.000 It's so stupid. 0.99

00:19:23.000 And you look at the group together. 1.00

00:19:26.000 That's one of the few times that a community can come together.

00:19:29.000 They can sing.

00:19:30.000 They can be a group and they can mobilize.

00:19:33.000 And look, some people's lives aren't great and they follow a team and the team wins.

00:19:38.000 And that's a win for them.

00:19:39.000 Do you think that's not important? 1.00

00:19:41.000 You're a fool. 1.00

00:19:42.000 You're an idiot. 1.00

00:19:43.000 Some people need that. 1.00

00:19:44.000 And that's a beautiful thing.

00:19:46.000 It's a beautiful thing to watch.

00:19:48.000 I think the issue is really nations need a purpose beyond sports.

00:19:52.000 I think we maybe put too much on it and it becomes like it can become a little bit toxic.

00:19:56.000 But, you know, it's great.

00:19:58.000 Do you think sometimes a mistake that we make when talking about things like politics and left versus right,

00:20:04.000 if people make the mistake that equality of opportunity is the same as equality of outcome?

00:20:10.000 Well, that seems to be, it seems like a very obvious thing to sort of say, well, equality of outcome isn't really doable.

00:20:21.000 As soon as you get to that, you're three moves away from Stalin.

00:20:24.000 Because how are you going to do that?

00:20:26.000 You're going to have to enforce it.

00:20:28.000 But the level of, you know, is the problem poverty or is the problem inequality?

00:20:35.000 Let's be honest about it, right?

00:20:36.000 What's the problem?

00:20:37.000 What do you perceive the problem as?

00:20:39.000 Because I perceive the problem as poverty, not inequality.

00:20:43.000 It's because when you get to inequality, it's about mimetic desires, right?

00:20:46.000 It's the Rene Girard thing about the idea that, well, your happiness is your standard of living minus envy.

00:20:53.000 There's nothing I can do about that.

00:20:56.000 Comparison is the thief of joy.

00:20:57.000 Someone else's life, someone else is on Instagram on a yacht with 15 models doing a ton of cocaine.

00:21:03.000 Okay, great, that's their thing, lovely.

00:21:06.000 I've got my thing.

00:21:07.000 You could spend your life looking elsewhere and trying to, you know, you want people to get to a level though.

00:21:12.000 You want people to have a fair chance in life.

00:21:15.000 For me, education.

00:21:16.000 Education should be free.

00:21:18.000 It should be difficult to get into university.

00:21:20.000 It should be free.

00:21:21.000 I think we could start with STEM as a nation, just go, well, STEM is free.

00:21:25.000 It's hard to get into.

00:21:26.000 These are the standards.

00:21:27.000 If you get there, we pay for you and we pay for your life for three years to study.

00:21:32.000 Great.

00:21:33.000 And anyone with a STEM degree, by the way, anywhere in the world that comes with a British passport, come.

00:21:38.000 Jimmy-

00:21:39.000 How would that be a downside?

00:21:41.000 No, it's interesting that you say that because you're someone, first generation immigrant,

00:21:46.000 could say white working class.

00:21:48.000 You've got to the very top of your profession.

00:21:50.000 A profession-

00:21:51.000 Not the very top.

00:21:52.000 No, but-

00:21:53.000 I can see the top from where I'm standing.

00:21:55.000 We'll talk about this because that's one of the things about you-

00:21:57.000 No one's at the top.

00:21:58.000 No one's ever at the top.

00:21:59.000 There's always, the grass is always-

00:22:01.000 But in terms of the UK-

00:22:04.000 You've done all right, mate.

00:22:05.000 You've done all right.

00:22:06.000 Jesus, I've come a long way on one tank of gas.

00:22:09.000 Greta Thunberg would be proud of me.

00:22:11.000 Very environmentally friendly.

00:22:12.000 I've seen your latest special, mate.

00:22:14.000 I don't think she'd like some of those jokes.

00:22:18.000 Having said that, you have got, you've come, as you said, very far on one tank of gas.

00:22:24.000 What do you attribute your success to?

00:22:26.000 Because there's a lot of people who make the criticism that the UK comedy industry is very class-based.

00:22:31.000 We live in a very class-based society, yet you've done incredibly well.

00:22:36.000 So what do you attribute your success to?

00:22:38.000 Well, I suppose the perception of my class is very different to my class.

00:22:41.000 So that's, there's something going on there as well.

00:22:44.000 Like I did turn up suited and booted when I came on the comedy scene.

00:22:49.000 And I think that thing about the people's-

00:22:51.000 It's a visual medium and the idea that you turn up in a suit in time.

00:22:54.000 He looks like a TV host.

00:22:56.000 He should do a game show.

00:22:57.000 Yeah.

00:22:58.000 I'll do that.

00:22:59.000 That was always a side hustle.

00:23:00.000 The, I would attribute my, any success I've had in life to stoicism.

00:23:07.000 So do less better.

00:23:09.000 I do jokes.

00:23:10.000 The world ordered a stand-up comedian and I honored that.

00:23:13.000 So I didn't get as distracted.

00:23:15.000 I got a little bit distracted, but I didn't get as distracted by other things.

00:23:18.000 But you know, there's, there's kind of that thing of you get offered your first bit of TV.

00:23:22.000 And I know a lot of people that got offered their first bit of TV and then they didn't talk for two years.

00:23:27.000 Who doesn't talk for two years?

00:23:28.000 It's your job.

00:23:29.000 Yeah.

00:23:30.000 Your job is being a stand-up comedian.

00:23:31.000 You should be working five nights a week minimum and possibly more.

00:23:36.000 I mean, I now do two shows a night.

00:23:38.000 It's a joy.

00:23:39.000 One at seven, one at 9.30.

00:23:40.000 Have a drinking dinner before, have a drink, they like it.

00:23:43.000 Have a drinking dinner afterwards.

00:23:44.000 Great.

00:23:45.000 It's, it's like that thing of like, there's, there's no substitute for reps.

00:23:49.000 You need time in the gym.

00:23:50.000 You need to be a comic.

00:23:52.000 You need to be writing new stuff every single time.

00:23:54.000 You need to be trying new stuff at every single show.

00:23:56.000 That's why, like new comics, sometimes you see a new comic and they're working on 20 and they're doing the same 26 months later.

00:24:03.000 Okay.

00:24:04.000 I don't know what you want to do for, what do you think you're, the, the jokes, the set isn't anything.

00:24:10.000 They're the bullets, you're the gun.

00:24:11.000 And you've got to keep on feeding that joke eating monster. 0.98

00:24:14.000 You've got to keep on writing.

00:24:16.000 And that's the joyful thing.

00:24:18.000 You get, it's, it's because you rise, you don't rise to your goals, you fall to your systems.

00:24:24.000 And if you have good systems and you go, right, this is what I'm going to focus on.

00:24:27.000 This is, this is my thing.

00:24:28.000 This is my little gift.

00:24:29.000 This is what I offer the world.

00:24:31.000 It's, it's easy.

00:24:33.000 And the idea that we're telling people now to have a portfolio approach to life and to have lots of different things going on and different side hustles. 0.99

00:24:40.000 Generalists suck. 1.00

00:24:43.000 Do you really think 25% of effort being a standup comedian is going to, is going to compete with 100% of my effort? 0.99

00:24:51.000 Good luck.

00:24:52.000 I think maybe you're being slightly arrogant.

00:24:54.000 Jimmy, where did you get this attitude?

00:24:56.000 Because I'm guessing you weren't born with it.

00:24:58.000 Did you learn this?

00:24:59.000 What?

00:25:00.000 The?

00:25:01.000 Well, look, you probably don't realize it, but your attitude is very, very rare.

00:25:05.000 Most, especially in this country.

00:25:07.000 In America, much more common.

00:25:08.000 Go for it.

00:25:09.000 Do this, do that.

00:25:10.000 In the UK, a lot of people are kind of encouraged to be mediocre or don't, don't reach too far.

00:25:16.000 Don't work too hard.

00:25:17.000 You wouldn't want to fail.

00:25:18.000 You know, all of this kind of stuff.

00:25:20.000 Were you always like this?

00:25:21.000 I think comedy has given me a lot.

00:25:23.000 I really do.

00:25:24.000 I think my work ethic came from comedy.

00:25:25.000 It's something when you're in the right stream, you know, what, what feels like play?

00:25:28.000 It looks like work to everyone else and it feels like play to you.

00:25:31.000 And no one can compete with you because you're just, you know, whatever.

00:25:33.000 It's 12 hours a day.

00:25:34.000 Who cares?

00:25:35.000 Two shows a night.

00:25:36.000 Who cares?

00:25:37.000 I love it.

00:25:38.000 I just want more of it.

00:25:39.000 I don't think it's that unusual an attitude.

00:25:40.000 I think comedy though, the great gift of comedy is failure.

00:25:44.000 You make friends with failure.

00:25:46.000 And really it's, it's the myth is we only ever, people see the results, right?

00:25:51.000 And they don't, people are jealous of what you got.

00:25:54.000 They're not jealous of how you got it.

00:25:55.000 That's right.

00:25:56.000 So that thing of like going, we've got lies, big lies in our society.

00:26:00.000 We've got lies about genius.

00:26:03.000 The guy's a genius.

00:26:05.000 It's just a genius.

00:26:06.000 Of course, Michael Jordan, he's a genius or Bill Gates.

00:26:09.000 Oh my God.

00:26:10.000 He works so hard.

00:26:11.000 He works so hard.

00:26:12.000 Works really hard. 1.00

00:26:13.000 Total bullshit. 1.00

00:26:14.000 Both of them. 1.00

00:26:15.000 It's always a mix of the two.

00:26:16.000 It's all.

00:26:17.000 And Michael Jordan, if he hadn't turned up to training is literally no one.

00:26:20.000 Right.

00:26:21.000 And Bill Gates, same, same.

00:26:23.000 Like the, the, the genius is, I mean, there's.

00:26:25.000 There's, there's different types of genius, obviously.

00:26:28.000 There's sheer innate genius.

00:26:29.000 There's, you know, there's Bach and von Neumann.

00:26:32.000 But there's also hyper accelerated rationality.

00:26:36.000 And you're saying that it's comedy, but you've got dyslexia, which.

00:26:41.000 Yeah.

00:26:42.000 And you made it to Cambridge, which is.

00:26:45.000 I'm a dummy. 1.00

00:26:47.000 What they used to call a fucking idiot. 1.00

00:26:49.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:26:50.000 They're very dyslexic.

00:26:51.000 So I can't write that well.

00:26:52.000 I didn't learn to read till I was about 11.

00:26:54.000 I've got like very, very bad penmanship.

00:26:56.000 I'd be very embarrassed.

00:26:57.000 Like even now, if someone sort of sees my notes or handwriting, I'm, I'm embarrassed by it.

00:27:02.000 I, you know, it's very, uh, childlike and, uh, it's, it's difficult for me.

00:27:05.000 I don't really think in what I sort of do a letter at a time.

00:27:08.000 Uh, but that's, I suppose that thing of like getting into Cambridge was a big deal for me because I didn't want to be a dummy.

00:27:15.000 I, I, I sort of, I'm very aware you are a story you tell yourself.

00:27:19.000 And so I changed schools when I was 16 and I would really recommend this if you have kids or if you're listening to this and you're young and you have a narrative that you don't like.

00:27:29.000 Oh, I'm the guy that messes around and I'm a loose cannon and I'm badly behaved.

00:27:34.000 Just put yourself in a new environment and reinvent yourself.

00:27:37.000 It's why people love traveling.

00:27:39.000 Because when you travel on your own, you get to, you kind of arrive and you can kind of go, well, I could tell any story I want.

00:27:44.000 And it's not bullshit. You're just kind of, you're just changing it slightly and going, well, I could, I could be this now.

00:27:49.000 And I remember changing schools and you know, it's often, it's often the way my, uh, a guy called Mr. Clay and a guy called Mr. File, first name, not pedo.

00:27:58.000 Very good guy. Sort of saw us on the first day at this new school.

00:28:02.000 And I sort of went, oh, I'd quite like to go to Cambridge.

00:28:04.000 And he went, yeah, okay. You seem bright enough. Very good at writing, but we'll get around that.

00:28:10.000 And then that was about pattern recognition, which is really one of the gifts of standup comedy.

00:28:15.000 What are standups good at? What are jokes? It's pattern recognition.

00:28:17.000 A lot of it's pattern recognition. So it's that thing of like going, you don't copy someone's essay, but you read a couple of A grade essays and you figure out, okay, well, that's how they look.

00:28:25.000 I could do that. You figure out how jokes work and then different types of jokes and you figure out how to reverse engineer.

00:28:32.000 I think comedians, I think our minds are quite, quite similar to detectives in that most people are thinking about what's next.

00:28:39.000 And we're thinking about, well, this is what's going on. What just happened?

00:28:42.000 It's quite an interesting way of thinking.

00:28:44.000 But that way of thinking can sometimes lead you to being distracted and unfocused because you're going, well, this is going on, but what's over there?

00:28:53.000 And that makes for a good joke with that kind of tangential thinking, but also as well, it can lead to a kind of unfocusedness when it comes to...

00:29:02.000 I don't know, maybe I got lucky as well in the timing.

00:29:05.000 You know, I came to comedy in my mid twenties and it felt like Indiana Jones getting his hat back.

00:29:10.000 It felt like I had one shot at this for a life less ordinary.

00:29:14.000 And I was very all in very quickly.

00:29:17.000 So I went from working for a big oil company to going, well, yo ho ho, a pirate's life for me.

00:29:22.000 I'm off doing this thing. And the people that I met, I found it incredibly inspiring, the world of standup comedy,

00:29:27.000 because it's a great community out for ourselves, but in it together.

00:29:32.000 You know, we're all kind of, you know, lone wolves, but we all sort of come together and it's a great community.

00:29:39.000 So one of the things that everyone I've spoken to who knew you in your early days in standup says is that you were just a level above everybody in terms of professionalism.

00:29:49.000 You'd turn up and you'd say, here's my business card. What's your phone number? You'd write it all down.

00:29:53.000 You'd write it all down. This might be the faintest praise there's ever been.

00:29:57.000 The most professional comedian is like being the tallest dwarf. 0.97

00:29:59.000 Well, right. It's the best looking guy in the burns unit, right?

00:30:02.000 It's like, yeah, yeah, okay. But, but that thing of like going, taking it very seriously from the jump and being,

00:30:08.000 I mean, my first Edinburgh show was called Barefaced Ambition, because I knew I'd entered this world.

00:30:12.000 I went, I want this. This is amazing. And really, I walked into a graveyard.

00:30:16.000 There was nothing going on in comedy 25 years ago. It was not a career. Now I think it's a career.

00:30:21.000 Really? So even 25 years ago, it wasn't a career.

00:30:23.000 There was not much going on. There was no one really touring when I started touring.

00:30:27.000 I remember us kind of booking the rooms and it was like, it was very old school comics would be maybe playing that room or someone had played it a few years before, but there weren't.

00:30:34.000 I mean, now you get any theatre in the UK and we're blessed with this incredible number of theatres around the country.

00:30:40.000 And you look at them and four nights a week, there's a comedy show. It's amazing. It's amazing how many people are out there touring now.

00:30:46.000 It's become, the industry has grown hugely during the time I've been in it.

00:30:52.000 And I've kind of ridden that wave. I think it's been, it's been like a, comedy's very new.

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00:31:28.000 If you think about it, really, you could sort of trace it back, I mean, you can trace it back to ancient times, obviously.

00:31:33.000 There's always been trickster guards and all of that, but really, George Carlin and Richard Pryor, Billy Connolly over here,

00:31:42.000 the idea of these guys in the early 70s being on stage for an hour or more, talking, and people paying to see them.

00:31:49.000 And there being a couple of amps, that's it. That's really quite new.

00:31:54.000 And really, when you think about what that means for guys like me, it feels like you get to be the Beatles.

00:32:01.000 You get, you know, George Carlin and Billy Connolly, they're kind of John the Baptist, and you kind of created this thing,

00:32:06.000 and then there's more and more people getting into it. I think comedy should be taught in our schools.

00:32:09.000 I'm a huge advocate for this, because you think about, like, learning music.

00:32:13.000 Music's nonverbal communication, and there's a huge value in teaching kids music.

00:32:17.000 But how much practical application is there for grade three piano in life? I'd argue not much.

00:32:23.000 But comedy, what does it teach you? Well, I suppose it teaches you how to write down and order your thoughts,

00:32:29.000 and it teaches you how to sort of discover your own voice, and it teaches you how to communicate,

00:32:34.000 and it teaches you some public speaking. They're all pretty useful things in pretty much any life.

00:32:39.000 I mean, the great tragedy is most people live and die, and they never get to hear their own voice.

00:32:45.000 And really, just doing a short stand-up course, it will kind of, it teaches you kind of, you become who you are.

00:32:51.000 And there's something great about finding your voice in comedy, because you kind of don't know.

00:32:57.000 I mean, I used to love, I love storytelling comedians. I mean, I love all different types of comedy,

00:33:01.000 but storytellers I adore, and I'm not one. I sort of don't, I'm trying to work on that.

00:33:07.000 I've got a fastball, and I'm trying to work on my knuckleball, and especially in the new special,

00:33:11.000 I'm trying to do some different things. But it's really interesting that you go, you come out kind of fully formed.

00:33:15.000 You go, oh, I'm a one-liner guy. I wouldn't have necessarily predicted that when I got into comedy,

00:33:19.000 that one-liners would be my love language.

00:33:22.000 Because when you started, you used to do musical comedy, didn't you?

00:33:25.000 I did a couple of things with guitars and songs early on, just kind of trying some different stuff,

00:33:31.000 and telling some stories, and doing other stuff. It was interesting.

00:33:34.000 But then I pretty quickly, I suppose it's that thing of the feedback loop of comedy is so valuable.

00:33:39.000 It's so, it's such an easy job, really, compared to music. People, musicians, go away for 18 months,

00:33:44.000 and they make a record, and they release it, and I wonder, will people like it?

00:33:47.000 Whereas me, I wrote some jokes yesterday, I was on stage in Cardiff last night,

00:33:51.000 I read them off a piece of paper, but laugh, laugh, no laugh, no laugh, laugh, laugh.

00:33:56.000 Great. They tell me. The audience is a genius. It's a wonderful thing.

00:34:00.000 It is a wonderful thing. And we're looking at comedy.

00:34:03.000 So I started comedy in 2009, and 2009 was kind of the apex of pretty much the Frankie Boyle era of stand-up comedy,

00:34:12.000 where he was on Mock the Week. And the more offensive you could be, the better.

00:34:17.000 But if you didn't tell a rape joke on stage, you were kind of this sort of left-wing cuck figure, 0.94

00:34:22.000 that everyone would kind of look down on you, particularly in the open mic.

00:34:26.000 And now, we went through a period where it felt like it was very restrictive.

00:34:31.000 Do you think we're still in that period now? Or are you going to disagree with my analysis?

00:34:36.000 Which you're more than welcome to. I think I would disagree with your analysis.

00:34:38.000 Yeah.

00:34:39.000 I think I've been working throughout that whole period. And I've been doing my thing.

00:34:43.000 And, you know, I would say no complaints. Few complaints.

00:34:47.000 Yeah.

00:34:48.000 But it's, you know, if you think about, I don't know who the, I don't know, I'm doing all right.

00:34:52.000 And Ricky's doing all right. And we do our thing. And Hannah Gatsby's doing okay. And Nish Kumar's doing okay.

00:35:02.000 It's a broad church comedy, right? There's a lot, like politically, and in terms of your artistic kind of bent,

00:35:11.000 there's this huge variety in stand-up comedy. It'd be like saying, if you were in a metal band,

00:35:16.000 oh yeah, I was in a metal band, and then some people were playing some chamber music. And off.

00:35:21.000 But you live together. You live in the same world. It's fine. The venues can accommodate both.

00:35:26.000 And I think that's kind of the magnificent thing about comedy. You go to somewhere like the Edinburgh Festival.

00:35:31.000 It's an incredible kind of melting pot. And the thing about a sense of humour is it chooses you,

00:35:38.000 it betrays you, your sense of humour. So people come and see the show. And my favourite thing at comedy shows

00:35:42.000 is that kind of cognitive dissonance, where people go, we shouldn't be laughing at that, but we are laughing at that.

00:35:47.000 And in a world where, I don't think there's any problem with censorship from above, but there is a little bit of self-censoring going on.

00:35:53.000 Not in comedy, but in our world, right? And then there's people that don't self-censor.

00:35:58.000 There's people that just say whatever they think is funny. And people come and see me on stage, and there's a catharsis in that.

00:36:05.000 Because you come and you see it and you go, oh, and then you have a very free and easy conversation after the show.

00:36:10.000 Because you feel loose. Because you, oh yeah, this guy, this guy doesn't give a fuck. God, he's using all kinds of language. 0.99

00:36:16.000 He's saying all kinds of things. You forget as a comedian, a lot of people don't swear in their everyday life.

00:36:20.000 Never mind talk about some of these terrible things. And I feel sorry for the people that get offended.

00:36:26.000 I genuinely do. Because when tough times happen in life, people are going to die in your life.

00:36:32.000 People are going to get sick. Awful things are going to happen. You're going to lose your job. You're going to lose money.

00:36:37.000 Tough shit's going to happen. At least if you have a dark sense of humor, you can laugh on those roughest of days. 0.99

00:36:44.000 There's a little bit of humanity in it. And the people that are easily offended, fuck me, they've just got to white knuckle it. 1.00

00:36:51.000 Poor loves. I agree with you. Can I push back on your idea about not... 1.00

00:36:56.000 I think all comedians self-censor, if I'm being honest with you, Jimmy.

00:36:59.000 So, I would watch your latest special. I loved it. Really, it was great.

00:37:03.000 Correct. That's the correct answer.

00:37:06.000 You have a beautiful way of pushing back on someone who might say how brilliant that latest special was, mate.

00:37:11.000 Exactly, exactly. I am the modern-day Paxman. Similar notes.

00:37:16.000 Anyway, but you did a joke where you were talking about Christianity.

00:37:21.000 And it was very funny all the way through.

00:37:23.000 And then you went, well, I'm... And people go to me, oh, and I'm going to paraphrase it and it's going to be terrible.

00:37:28.000 But why don't you make a joke about Islam? And you go, because I'm not fucking mental. 0.98

00:37:32.000 But then I go on to make a joke about Islam. 1.00

00:37:34.000 Yeah.

00:37:35.000 Immediately.

00:37:36.000 But...

00:37:37.000 It's a...

00:37:38.000 I did make a joke about Islam directly after that. 0.99

00:37:41.000 Yeah, yes.

00:37:42.000 But in the way that...

00:37:44.000 How can I put the...

00:37:46.000 In...

00:37:47.000 Not in...

00:37:48.000 I'm loving Jimmy's face throughout this.

00:37:50.000 Yeah.

00:37:51.000 In a way that I kind of...

00:37:53.000 I felt it...

00:37:54.000 How...

00:37:55.000 When you...

00:37:56.000 When we tackle jokes about Islam, I feel that we tiptoe around it more than...

00:38:01.000 Not this guy.

00:38:02.000 No, I've got loads of stuff about Islam.

00:38:04.000 And actually a lot of...

00:38:06.000 I mean, I just played Istanbul.

00:38:08.000 Yeah.

00:38:09.000 I played a Muslim country.

00:38:10.000 Did those...

00:38:11.000 Did the bit about...

00:38:12.000 You know, the...

00:38:13.000 The bit in the special that I think you're alluding to is the...

00:38:15.000 Yeah.

00:38:16.000 Is the thing where I go, you know, I'm a bit short for time.

00:38:18.000 I can't do...

00:38:19.000 I've done jokes about Christianity, but I can't do jokes about Islam. 1.00

00:38:22.000 Um...

00:38:23.000 And the crowd kind of go, hmm...

00:38:25.000 Can't you? 1.00

00:38:26.000 And I go, well, fun fact, I'm not a fucking idiot. 1.00

00:38:29.000 So if you're sat there thinking, well, that's not fair. 1.00

00:38:31.000 You'll joke about Christianity all day long, but you won't make the same sort of joke about Muslims. 0.95

00:38:34.000 Well, then maybe, as a Christian, you should think about blowing something up. 1.00

00:38:39.000 Yeah. 0.84

00:38:40.000 Yeah.

00:38:41.000 It's fun.

00:38:42.000 I don't think anyone gets particularly offended by that because it's the...

00:38:45.000 I mean, we all know Muslim people.

00:38:46.000 They're fine.

00:38:47.000 Yeah.

00:38:48.000 Exactly the same as everyone else.

00:38:49.000 Yeah.

00:38:50.000 It's...

00:38:51.000 There's no sacred cows in my show.

00:38:52.000 There's nothing that I'm like pulling punches or going, well, I won't...

00:38:55.000 I don't want to stray too close to that.

00:38:56.000 It's about what's the funniest thing I can possibly say.

00:38:58.000 Let me try a different pushback on a different thing, which I think I disagree with you on,

00:39:02.000 because I think it's absolutely true that for people who've already made it,

00:39:06.000 you, Ricky, Dave Chappelle, Joe Rogan, Bill Burr, whoever,

00:39:11.000 the ability to go on stage and make whatever joke you want is totally there.

00:39:15.000 And even if people come after you as they did about the gypsy joke or whatever,

00:39:19.000 like, you're going to be fine.

00:39:21.000 You're going to be fine.

00:39:22.000 No one's going to be pulling your shows, et cetera.

00:39:24.000 But there have been, including at the Edinburgh Festival, people whose shows have been cancelled.

00:39:29.000 Yeah.

00:39:30.000 The...

00:39:31.000 Jerry Sadowitz.

00:39:32.000 Jerry Sadowitz is a very good example of this.

00:39:34.000 Brilliant comedian.

00:39:35.000 Incredibly offensive, but brilliant comedian.

00:39:38.000 And, you know, there will be other examples of people like that as well, where...

00:39:42.000 I do think I'm in a privileged position of I'm kind of grandfathered in.

00:39:47.000 Yeah.

00:39:48.000 Yeah.

00:39:49.000 Like, it's that thing of, you know, whenever I get dragged, it's like people always go,

00:39:51.000 yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:39:52.000 And also, you've got to right size it.

00:39:53.000 Like, you know, I told a joke and some people didn't like it.

00:39:56.000 Yeah.

00:39:57.000 It's not the biggest deal in the world.

00:39:58.000 I think it's probably tougher in the clubs where people are like, you know, sort of saying,

00:40:02.000 well, you can't say that, you can say that, and it's, you know, I feel like...

00:40:05.000 But saying something is too terrible to joke about is like saying a disease is too awful to cure.

00:40:11.000 We can't use medicine on that.

00:40:12.000 It's gross.

00:40:13.000 Mm.

00:40:14.000 But you go, well, the joke about it is, it helps.

00:40:16.000 It's a cathartic thing.

00:40:17.000 What about this idea that particularly in more kind of progressive leaning comedy circles,

00:40:23.000 the idea of punching down, where you're using your privilege to make fun of people who don't have as much power as you,

00:40:29.000 and therefore this is wrong, offensive, evil, etc.

00:40:32.000 Okay.

00:40:33.000 I don't know what they want.

00:40:35.000 I don't really get it.

00:40:38.000 I don't get the idea that a joke is a punch.

00:40:40.000 I don't kind of agree with the premise.

00:40:42.000 So never mind getting into the weeds of it.

00:40:44.000 But you go, what, sorry, there's people you can joke about.

00:40:47.000 So I can't joke about anyone with a disability because they're below me. 1.00

00:40:51.000 Sorry?

00:40:52.000 I'm punching down at them because they're below me.

00:40:55.000 Oh, oh, right.

00:40:56.000 Okay.

00:40:57.000 Interesting.

00:40:58.000 Oh, that group is below me.

00:41:00.000 Oh, that's a great way to see the world.

00:41:02.000 And you're above them, are you?

00:41:04.000 So you wouldn't joke about them because you're better than them, are you?

00:41:07.000 Okay.

00:41:08.000 I mean, I think you've only got to step back from that one second and go, the arrogance of that is unbelievable.

00:41:13.000 The idea of being an equal opportunities offender and going, well, we can all take a joke.

00:41:18.000 That seems a much more reasonable point of view to me.

00:41:21.000 And the idea of saying that, you know, whoever it is in your audience is, oh, they wouldn't be able to take it.

00:41:27.000 They are a sacred cow.

00:41:29.000 We can't make jokes about that one thing.

00:41:31.000 Well, you're on a very slippery slope because who's making the rules?

00:41:34.000 Who's deciding what is and what isn't acceptable?

00:41:36.000 I'd like the audience to decide.

00:41:38.000 If they laugh and, you know, there could be a sharp intake of breath, but as long as the laughter is the first thing, great.

00:41:45.000 You said that very well.

00:41:46.000 And one of the people you mentioned, Jimmy, is George Carlin.

00:41:49.000 He was an absolute hero of mine for a whole host of reasons.

00:41:52.000 And one of them was...

00:41:53.000 The cocaine abuse.

00:41:55.000 The level of cocaine abuse.

00:41:56.000 I mean, obviously.

00:41:57.000 Yeah.

00:41:58.000 But apart from that, he was someone who really was incredibly fearless, completely unafraid, 0.98

00:42:03.000 really, really principled in calling out bullshit, irrespective of which side of the political spectrum was promoting the bullshit. 0.98

00:42:10.000 And he made a lot of fun about Christianity at the time. 0.97

00:42:15.000 A lot of jokes like Bill Hicks, who was another hero of mine, because those were the restrictive forces of the day.

00:42:21.000 Well, the basket of things that you can't talk about changes through time.

00:42:26.000 And comedians are sort of the canary in the mind.

00:42:29.000 We kind of...

00:42:30.000 We push...

00:42:31.000 So what's really the role of edgy comedy? 0.95

00:42:32.000 I always think, like, the only defense of edgy comedy is to be fucking hilarious telling edgy jokes. 0.85

00:42:36.000 Right? 0.97

00:42:37.000 So...

00:42:38.000 Tick.

00:42:39.000 The other thing, you know, what does it do?

00:42:42.000 What is it for?

00:42:43.000 Well, there's an Overton window in politics, right?

00:42:45.000 We talk about what is and what is an acceptable policy, and that moves through time.

00:42:49.000 There's also an Overton window in society, where what's acceptable to talk about and what isn't acceptable to talk about in society.

00:42:55.000 And I think comedy plays a big part in that.

00:42:57.000 So both on the edgy stuff, the super edgy, well, we can talk about these political things, because the comedian started the conversation.

00:43:05.000 So when Dave Chappelle talks about stuff, and it becomes a huge issue, well, that's culturally very relevant.

00:43:10.000 But also, when, you know, someone at Edinburgh might start talking about mental health, and then the paper do a big article about this young guy talking about his mental health struggles.

00:43:18.000 And you go, oh, that's very interesting.

00:43:19.000 And it opens that Overton window of conversation.

00:43:22.000 That's a very, very healthy, good thing for society, in my view.

00:43:26.000 And that's, that's really, and I think comedy's got that ability to kind of, it sugars the pill.

00:43:31.000 You can talk about these incredibly difficult things.

00:43:34.000 I mean, there's a whole bit at the end of the new special, The Natural Born Killer, where I have the talk with a young man.

00:43:41.000 And basically school him on consent, and sex, and what you should do, and what you should ask for, and what's okay, and what's not okay. 0.98

00:43:48.000 And it's fucking hilarious, and super rude, like crazy rude. 0.96

00:43:52.000 But I'm not wrong about anything, innit? 0.97

00:43:54.000 And it's, it feels like it's a really valuable thing, because they might just listen to me.

00:43:58.000 Whereas, you know, I don't know how else they're, what, no one else is doing that messaging.

00:44:03.000 People are far too keen on going, oh, well, that's obvious, we don't need to talk about that. 0.96

00:44:07.000 Yeah, we fucking do. 0.52

00:44:08.000 Do you see yourself almost as kind of a release valve? 0.98

00:44:11.000 So people who, maybe in their own personal lives, they can't talk about certain things, or they feel constrained at work, yet they come to watch you.

00:44:19.000 The lights go down, it's a darkened room, you make jokes about all these different topics, and that's a cathartic experience.

00:44:27.000 Yeah, I think there's a, I think there's a real truth to that.

00:44:29.000 I think it's a very, I mean, it's interesting, actually, the, you talk about Christianity, doing that stuff in America felt much edgier than doing it here. 0.93

00:44:35.000 Yeah.

00:44:36.000 And actually, as you travel around, you sort of notice, oh, wow, that was much edgier in South Africa than it was in the UK.

00:44:42.000 Because, you know, it's, it's, religion's much bigger.

00:44:47.000 Yeah, well, they're actually religious in America, and that's what I was going to ask you, because my sense is that the conversation we started earlier,

00:44:54.000 which was about God and belief, and the lack of purpose and the lack of meaning that increasingly in our societies people experience,

00:45:01.000 is pretty, like, Jordan Peterson is on tour now, and I'm going to be joining him because he wants to have a conversation about his last book,

00:45:08.000 his latest book is called We Who Struggle With God.

00:45:11.000 And my sense is, this is going to become a big talking, not a talking point, it's a wrong phrase, but like, this is a big thing that people are going to be talking about,

00:45:20.000 and comedians stop making fun of Christianity, really, in the way that they did during the Carlin and Hicks era.

00:45:26.000 Have you, have you seen the new special?

00:45:28.000 Yes.

00:45:29.000 I, I'm not saying...

00:45:30.000 What do you mean?

00:45:31.000 Yeah.

00:45:32.000 There's a genuine blasphemy in there.

00:45:34.000 Yeah.

00:45:35.000 Well, I'm excited, I, look, I'm excited for you, mate.

00:45:37.000 I'm excited to see how you, I'm excited to see how your show does in Alabama.

00:45:42.000 But my point is something else, which is, I think, I don't know if you agree with me on this, but I sense that there is a God conversation coming.

00:45:51.000 Um, as you mentioned, the God-shaped hole in everybody.

00:45:54.000 Um, and it just feels like this is the moment when we're going to have a different take on it going forward.

00:45:59.000 Do you see what I'm talking about, or does this make no sense to you?

00:46:01.000 No, I think, I think so.

00:46:02.000 I think there's, there's, um, listen, there's, there's, there's always going to be, there's a, there's a movement and then there's a counter movement.

00:46:07.000 Yeah.

00:46:08.000 And the, the new atheist movement sort of came along, and now there's kind of a counter movement against it going, well, don't throw it all away.

00:46:14.000 But I don't think that's about saying, well, necessarily subscribe to this religion.

00:46:18.000 Yes.

00:46:19.000 We're sort of going, well, what's going to be the thing that brings people together?

00:46:22.000 And that's right.

00:46:23.000 I think like politics isn't the right thing to replace religion.

00:46:26.000 No.

00:46:27.000 It's because, because really, if you think about it, it's, it's about what is God, right?

00:46:31.000 What's, what's God a proxy for?

00:46:32.000 The future.

00:46:33.000 Right.

00:46:34.000 It's, it's like live well now.

00:46:35.000 It's very self-help religion.

00:46:36.000 Yeah.

00:46:37.000 Because it's, it's all self-help is prioritized later.

00:46:39.000 Every self-help book, that's the core prioritized later.

00:46:42.000 And God is, well, do, do this now for a better life later.

00:46:47.000 And the issue is they're promising heaven.

00:46:49.000 So when you're promising heaven, well, by any means necessary, because it's heaven we're talking about here, it's perfection.

00:46:56.000 And I think there's something about Marxism, which is very similar because Marxism promises, albeit in a, in a very secular way, they promise perfection.

00:47:05.000 So they go, it's perfection.

00:47:06.000 So communism, by any means necessary, it's worth it because we're getting to this Valhalla.

00:47:12.000 And I think that's very, it's very dangerous to put your sort of belief in that.

00:47:16.000 So I'm, I'm, I mean, I am, I'm still an atheist.

00:47:19.000 I don't believe, but I can see such purpose and worth in, in being part of a community.

00:47:25.000 So what community are you, are you part of?

00:47:27.000 You know, you can't, you can't care about everything.

00:47:30.000 That, well, that's what I was going to ask.

00:47:32.000 So if it's not politics, which it isn't, I think we can all agree, what is it that modern society has to offer people to replace?

00:47:42.000 Well, in a sense, it's been, it's been the environmental movement for young people.

00:47:47.000 Yeah.

00:47:48.000 But that's, it's absolutely valid, right?

00:47:50.000 So it's the idea of going with something bigger than me, and I want to give myself purpose in life and a mission, and saving the planet.

00:47:56.000 What could be, what could be more beautiful?

00:47:59.000 It's a, it's a lovely thing.

00:48:00.000 I think I absolutely agree on the problem.

00:48:02.000 And I do not agree on the solution.

00:48:04.000 I think the, I cannot imagine a world in 50 years time.

00:48:07.000 And, and by the way, there will be a 50 years time.

00:48:10.000 The, the, the, the sky's not falling in. 1.00

00:48:12.000 If you think the world is ending in the next 20 years, you're in a fucking cult. 0.99

00:48:16.000 Right? 0.99

00:48:17.000 So, but someone gluing themselves to the pavement, isn't going to make the difference.

00:48:20.000 If you want to change it, go and get the STEM degree and do the work on something that will make a difference.

00:48:25.000 You want to hear my environmental plan?

00:48:27.000 I've got an environmental plan.

00:48:28.000 You know I have.

00:48:29.000 Right.

00:48:30.000 Here's what we do.

00:48:31.000 All of the COP 23 aims, all of the stuff, all of the, we're going to bring down CO2, all of the, we're going to, we're going to decrease the amount of fuel that we use at the expense of poor people.

00:48:42.000 Line through it.

00:48:43.000 We're not doing any of that.

00:48:44.000 We're not doing any of that.

00:48:45.000 Nuclear submarines.

00:48:46.000 Nuclear submarines.

00:48:47.000 They've been running for 70 years.

00:48:48.000 Right?

00:48:49.000 No one got sick.

00:48:50.000 They're safe.

00:48:51.000 We put a nuclear sub reactor in every town in Great Britain.

00:48:54.000 Every single town gets a nuclear sub. 0.57

00:48:56.000 So there's no NIMBY.

00:48:57.000 There's no, not in my backyard. 0.99

00:48:58.000 It's in everyone's fucking backyard. 1.00

00:49:00.000 Nothing you can do about it. 1.00

00:49:01.000 There's one in every town.

00:49:02.000 Right?

00:49:03.000 And if it blows up, if a terrorist gets to it, it's, it's a problem.

00:49:06.000 Not a huge problem.

00:49:07.000 Not a big deal.

00:49:08.000 But if it blows up, Fukushima, no one died.

00:49:10.000 Let's, lest we forget, no one died.

00:49:12.000 Okay?

00:49:13.000 So you put that in every town and you go, well, we're not going to, we're going to burn fossil fuels until we get this all sorted.

00:49:18.000 It's going to take 15, 20 years.

00:49:20.000 15 years time, fuel bills go to zero.

00:49:23.000 So you, you paid for it all.

00:49:26.000 Fuel bills go to zero.

00:49:27.000 And then electricity becomes free in Great Britain.

00:49:31.000 And we say to all the big companies in the world, you want to come set up a company in Great Britain?

00:49:36.000 It's quite expensive to employ people.

00:49:38.000 Oh, energy's free.

00:49:39.000 Your business involve energy?

00:49:41.000 Yeah.

00:49:42.000 And then when we're not using it, we're just, at nighttime, we just mine for Bitcoins.

00:49:46.000 Sounds great.

00:49:47.000 But although I don't think you'll be able to mine for Bitcoins 20 years from now, because the cap will be reached.

00:49:51.000 But what else would you do if you were king of the world, Jimmy?

00:49:54.000 I mean, you seem like a man with a plan.

00:49:57.000 That's not a bad idea.

00:49:58.000 Well, I'm all for nuclear.

00:49:59.000 I'm not sure about one in every town, but we can argue about that.

00:50:02.000 Well, I think that thing about, I mean, we obviously we need fossil fuels as well.

00:50:05.000 Yeah.

00:50:06.000 The people that go, we've got to get rid of oil and gas, you go, no, fertiliser. 0.89

00:50:10.000 Don't forget food.

00:50:12.000 Remember food, the stuff you eat three times a day.

00:50:14.000 You need fertiliser. 0.95

00:50:15.000 Where do you think that comes from? 1.00

00:50:17.000 Good luck getting out of a fucking wind turbine. 1.00

00:50:19.000 I don't care how high it is. 1.00

00:50:21.000 It's not going to work.

00:50:22.000 So it's that thing, you need a little bit of that.

00:50:24.000 There's no solutions, only trade-offs.

00:50:26.000 But I think what Britain could do is set an example to the rest of the world.

00:50:29.000 Us doing that doesn't make any difference, by the way, to overall CO2 in the world.

00:50:33.000 We're not big enough.

00:50:34.000 Doesn't make a difference.

00:50:35.000 Yeah.

00:50:36.000 It's an example we could set where then in 20 years' time, what we need is statesmen,

00:50:40.000 not politicians, because everything's about incentives, right?

00:50:44.000 And we incentivise politicians in the wrong way.

00:50:47.000 They're all about the next election and what happens later this year.

00:50:50.000 And no one is thinking, well, what's going to happen in 15 years' time?

00:50:53.000 We're definitely going to need more power.

00:50:55.000 And the idea that the environmental movement at the moment says, well, we need to cut back.

00:50:59.000 Well, I don't buy into that.

00:51:02.000 It's not going to happen.

00:51:03.000 Well, also, you go, well, try convincing genuinely poor people in Africa and India and China 0.95

00:51:09.000 that they need to cut back, because we used it all.

00:51:12.000 So if you were king of the world, in charge of everything, what would you do?

00:51:17.000 All right.

00:51:18.000 What other ideas have you got?

00:51:19.000 Well, it's often that thing of like, I love that William Gibson quote,

00:51:22.000 the future is here, but it's not evenly distributed.

00:51:25.000 Yeah.

00:51:26.000 It's kind of a wonderful idea of like, well, actually there's great stuff around the world,

00:51:30.000 and we should just take best practice from all over.

00:51:32.000 So I'm not a huge fan of the, this will come as a shock to you,

00:51:36.000 I'm not a huge fan of Hungary's president.

00:51:39.000 But they have an idea in Hungary that I think might be the most progressive idea I've heard in European politics in 20 years,

00:51:45.000 which is if you have, if you're a woman and you have a baby in Hungary, you get 25% off your income tax for life.

00:51:51.000 You have two babies, you get 50% off.

00:51:54.000 If you have three babies, 75%, four babies, ding, ding, ding, no income tax ever again.

00:52:00.000 Right?

00:52:01.000 Now that to me, someone should be running on that in Westminster in this election,

00:52:05.000 because you automatically get 50% of the vote, right?

00:52:08.000 Because it's, it's incredibly progressive.

00:52:10.000 It handles the gender pay gap, right? 1.00

00:52:12.000 And there is, there is a disparity in incomes between women. 1.00

00:52:15.000 And basically when you take yourself out of the workforce to have a baby, and it's harder for women than it is to men to have a baby.

00:52:20.000 It just is.

00:52:21.000 So you go, well, hang on.

00:52:23.000 If we can give women back that money down the line for having a baby, 1.00

00:52:28.000 and we can close the gender pay gap, and we can encourage mums to go back to work,

00:52:33.000 which is a great example to give you kids.

00:52:35.000 It's a great thing to do if you want to do that.

00:52:36.000 Wonderful.

00:52:37.000 And we'll incentivize you. 0.99

00:52:38.000 It strikes me as, it's, why are we not doing that?

00:52:42.000 And someone's going to go, well, we haven't costed it.

00:52:45.000 It's going to...

00:52:46.000 I don't care what the costing is.

00:52:49.000 Because demographics is destiny. 0.98

00:52:51.000 And if we encourage more people to have kids, and we make it easier for people,

00:52:55.000 then a better world.

00:52:57.000 A better world.

00:52:58.000 More of us.

00:52:59.000 Great.

00:53:00.000 More of us is a good thing.

00:53:01.000 You know, that's the other thing I don't like about the incredibly left-wing environmental people

00:53:04.000 that seem to think we're a scourge on the planet. 1.00

00:53:06.000 Fuck all the way off. 1.00

00:53:08.000 That's right. 1.00

00:53:09.000 Too many people.

00:53:10.000 All right.

00:53:11.000 Why don't we start with you? 0.66

00:53:12.000 It's genocidal. 0.94

00:53:13.000 It's crazy.

00:53:14.000 But the idea of like going, I think we should be encouraging people to have kids and make

00:53:18.000 it easier.

00:53:19.000 Because really, when you think about where's the best places to live in the world, it's

00:53:22.000 places that industrialized relatively slowly.

00:53:25.000 Ex-colonial.

00:53:26.000 It's like Australia, like Sydney, Melbourne, Toronto, Vancouver.

00:53:29.000 The best place in the world.

00:53:30.000 Places that...

00:53:31.000 Because kids went from being an asset when we were on the farms, right?

00:53:34.000 There was free labor.

00:53:35.000 Great.

00:53:36.000 Have as many kids as you can.

00:53:37.000 There's a lot of people to being a liability in the cities.

00:53:39.000 And really great suburban areas is what we need more of.

00:53:42.000 So it's that thing of like people are always planning new towns.

00:53:44.000 No, you need new suburbia is what you need.

00:53:46.000 Because you need places where people can afford to live with a house and a garden and a standard

00:53:51.000 of living.

00:53:52.000 You don't need more flats for single people. 1.00

00:53:54.000 That's not what we need.

00:53:56.000 We need more suburban spread areas where people can live and have a community and, you know,

00:54:03.000 a nice place.

00:54:04.000 Yeah.

00:54:05.000 And that's one of the things that I've found so frustrating about this government is Michael

00:54:09.000 Gove recently came out and was going...

00:54:11.000 Did he?

00:54:12.000 Yeah.

00:54:13.000 Well, that's an exclusive, isn't it?

00:54:16.000 I think we all knew, but that's...

00:54:18.000 Sorry, sorry.

00:54:19.000 Did you not finish the sentence?

00:54:20.000 No, no, no.

00:54:21.000 Well, I'm sorry.

00:54:22.000 Well, that's just a mix-up.

00:54:23.000 Please continue.

00:54:24.000 Yeah.

00:54:25.000 There's going to be all the Americans Googling Michael Gove and going, I understand that

00:54:34.000 joke.

00:54:35.000 But he recently came out and he was saying, well, you know, unless...

00:54:38.000 You can't say it again.

00:54:39.000 Don't double down.

00:54:40.000 Don't double down.

00:54:41.000 I'm going to triple down.

00:54:42.000 He recently said...

00:54:43.000 Yeah.

00:54:44.000 He recently said that unless young people can get access to property and the housing ladder,

00:54:51.000 they're going to reject democracy.

00:54:52.000 Thanks for quoting my ARC speech, Michael.

00:54:54.000 Yeah.

00:54:55.000 And then you go, well, that's great, mate.

00:54:57.000 What a great point.

00:54:58.000 Should we talk to the housing minister about it?

00:55:00.000 Oh, hang on a second.

00:55:01.000 You are the housing minister.

00:55:03.000 Yeah.

00:55:04.000 It strikes me we need a bit more housing.

00:55:07.000 Yeah.

00:55:08.000 I mean, we definitely do.

00:55:09.000 People need places to live.

00:55:10.000 It's...

00:55:11.000 Yeah.

00:55:12.000 And that doesn't strike me as a complex idea.

00:55:14.000 I'm trying to think of other things I would do, other things that are great around the

00:55:17.000 world.

00:55:18.000 Like, I like Portugal.

00:55:19.000 I like the Portuguese drug laws.

00:55:20.000 I like what they've done in Lisbon.

00:55:21.000 Like, Lisbon was like one of the roughest towns in Europe.

00:55:23.000 Yeah.

00:55:24.000 And it's now an absolute joy to wander around.

00:55:26.000 And really, they've taken away petty crime, because 90% of petty crime is drug-related.

00:55:30.000 Yeah.

00:55:31.000 And they legalized all drugs.

00:55:33.000 And it's fantastic.

00:55:35.000 Now, I would say the supervisor on my drug policy, which not everyone will love.

00:55:39.000 All drugs are legal.

00:55:40.000 Right?

00:55:41.000 Weed is legal.

00:55:42.000 Of course, weed is legal.

00:55:43.000 The legal age for weed, though, is 45.

00:55:46.000 You've got to...

00:55:48.000 Because it's a performance-inhibiting drug.

00:55:50.000 That's what weed is.

00:55:51.000 It's performance-inhibiting.

00:55:52.000 Like, men in their 40s that are working too hard and... 0.99

00:55:56.000 You just need to fucking chill out, mate. 0.98

00:55:58.000 There's more to life than this. 0.98

00:56:00.000 Yeah.

00:56:01.000 Enough already.

00:56:02.000 Marijuana.

00:56:03.000 Young people just starting out, I think, prohibition.

00:56:07.000 You think...

00:56:08.000 Well, I did a personal prohibition when I started comedy.

00:56:11.000 I didn't drink for 12 years.

00:56:13.000 Really?

00:56:14.000 Yeah.

00:56:15.000 Smart on the comedy sector, because you're constantly surrounded by drunk people.

00:56:17.000 You're surrounded by it.

00:56:18.000 There's a lot of it.

00:56:19.000 And I saw people...

00:56:20.000 There's people that I started with that were so funny.

00:56:22.000 So funny.

00:56:23.000 And they got...

00:56:24.000 They had a brilliant time.

00:56:26.000 Oh, my God.

00:56:27.000 They had fun.

00:56:28.000 And you don't know their names.

00:56:30.000 Yeah.

00:56:31.000 And I think that's really sad.

00:56:33.000 And they just didn't...

00:56:34.000 They didn't manage to...

00:56:35.000 It wasn't the appropriate time.

00:56:37.000 You know, there's a season for these things.

00:56:39.000 And I think, actually, for young people, it's about where...

00:56:43.000 You've got time and you've got focus.

00:56:46.000 Where are you going to apply that?

00:56:48.000 And that's your life.

00:56:50.000 So it's, you know, there's a crisis for young men.

00:56:53.000 I mean, Jesus knows life isn't easy for young women in this society.

00:56:56.000 But for young men, there's a very clear issue, which is that...

00:57:02.000 George Orwell wasn't right.

00:57:04.000 Aldous Huxley was right.

00:57:06.000 Our power will not be taken by some force from above.

00:57:09.000 It will be given away for cheap dopamine.

00:57:12.000 So guys are playing video games 100 hours a week, right?

00:57:15.000 Their video games are a proxy for a career.

00:57:18.000 Very clearly, right?

00:57:19.000 You look at the levels and you...

00:57:21.000 The big boss at the end.

00:57:22.000 I mean, it's so clearly a proxy for career, right? 0.99

00:57:25.000 And porn is a proxy for sex.

00:57:28.000 You know, there's no risk involved in either of those.

00:57:32.000 And what you want is young men to take more risks.

00:57:34.000 You want them to...

00:57:35.000 You know, so the message shouldn't be,

00:57:37.000 play less video games and look at less porn.

00:57:40.000 It should be, go out there and have an adventure.

00:57:42.000 It should be...

00:57:43.000 You know, the message needs to be more enticing than,

00:57:45.000 don't look at porn online. 1.00

00:57:47.000 It should be, get your dick wet. 1.00

00:57:50.000 More of a message. 1.00

00:57:51.000 And it's more exciting.

00:57:52.000 Solve the population problem as well, Jimmy.

00:57:54.000 Yeah.

00:57:55.000 Two in one.

00:57:56.000 Yeah, it's not a bad, you know.

00:57:57.000 Jimmy, it strikes me that you're a combination of both creativity and pragmatism.

00:58:01.000 And those two normally don't go together.

00:58:03.000 You tend to either get the pragmatic or the creative.

00:58:06.000 Particularly...

00:58:07.000 This again, I mean, it comes back to gratitude.

00:58:10.000 It just comes back to luck.

00:58:11.000 I got very lucky.

00:58:13.000 I think, like...

00:58:14.000 We only see luck in certain fields.

00:58:17.000 Like, we can see, like, Barbie Oppenheimer.

00:58:21.000 Good example, right?

00:58:22.000 Yeah.

00:58:23.000 So we can all see, oh, Margot Robbie.

00:58:24.000 Oh my God, she's so beautiful.

00:58:25.000 She was just born like that.

00:58:26.000 But no one looks at Oppenheimer and goes,

00:58:28.000 ah, he was born with an IQ of 170.

00:58:31.000 And a work ethic, which is also heritable.

00:58:34.000 So you don't see the luck in everything.

00:58:37.000 There's one side that we're very dismissive of, the luck.

00:58:39.000 And then the other side we don't look at.

00:58:41.000 And it seems very unfair.

00:58:43.000 Like, life is kind of unfair.

00:58:45.000 We come out with our gifts, with our factory settings.

00:58:48.000 And the trick of life is to know what you are.

00:58:51.000 To accept what you are early on and lean into that.

00:58:54.000 And how do you get there?

00:58:55.000 How do you accept what you are?

00:58:57.000 Because there's a lot of people who spend their entire life

00:58:59.000 fighting against what they are.

00:59:01.000 There's a lot of people with curly hair and straighteners.

00:59:07.000 Yeah, okay.

00:59:08.000 There's a lot of people going on sunbeds.

00:59:12.000 Okay.

00:59:13.000 You're the colour you're meant to be.

00:59:15.000 You're meant to look like that.

00:59:16.000 You're great as you are.

00:59:18.000 Thanks, man.

00:59:19.000 Lean into it.

00:59:20.000 But you know that thing of, like, just going,

00:59:21.000 acceptance is, it's great.

00:59:22.000 Because then you've got the starting point

00:59:24.000 and then you can kind of build on that.

00:59:25.000 And I think in my life, I would say to any young comic,

00:59:30.000 I'd say to pretty much anyone, avoid competition through authenticity.

00:59:36.000 No one can beat you at being you.

00:59:38.000 Don't be the best.

00:59:39.000 Be the only.

00:59:40.000 No one does what I do.

00:59:42.000 I mean, you know, people do a similar job, like a stand-up comedian or whatever.

00:59:45.000 Okay, you can categorize it like that and go, well, there's lots of stand-up comedians

00:59:48.000 and some are doing better than you and some are doing worse than you.

00:59:50.000 But no one does what I do.

00:59:52.000 I deliver a very specific product.

00:59:55.000 You know, I make something people want.

00:59:57.000 I make them happy.

00:59:58.000 And Jimmy, when Francis said you were at the top,

01:00:01.000 and this is something we talked privately about once as well,

01:00:04.000 you were like, well, I'm not at the very top.

01:00:07.000 And you just have an ambitiousness that is, A, quite unusual,

01:00:12.000 and B, very infectious about your goals for your career,

01:00:16.000 for things that you want to achieve, that you are quite relentless about.

01:00:20.000 A lot of people in your position might say, well, look, I've made a lot of money.

01:00:23.000 I'm super successful.

01:00:25.000 I can just have, I can just chill.

01:00:27.000 I can just, you know, you've got a family.

01:00:29.000 You've got, you know, the opportunity to lie on the beach 51 weeks a year

01:00:33.000 or 52 weeks a year if you want.

01:00:35.000 But you're just cringing, as I say all of this,

01:00:37.000 because you are super driven to be the very best.

01:00:41.000 Listen, I want to be everything I can be.

01:00:44.000 Yeah.

01:00:45.000 But that's not the very best.

01:00:47.000 I want to, what's the best thing I could do, right?

01:00:49.000 I think I've found the thing that I'm best at.

01:00:51.000 Am I the best in the world? No.

01:00:53.000 But I can, I've got a shot, right?

01:00:55.000 I've got a shot at being, be everything that you can be within that.

01:00:57.000 And really, I think the thing about having, you know, kids and family is,

01:01:01.000 those kids are not going to listen to what I say.

01:01:03.000 They're going to watch and imitate.

01:01:05.000 And if they see someone with a work ethic, well, that's, you know,

01:01:09.000 they might pick up on that and copy it.

01:01:12.000 That wouldn't be such a bad thing.

01:01:13.000 And I think also the work ethic thing is, the downside of success,

01:01:19.000 is it fosters envy and jealousy.

01:01:22.000 And really, I think letting people know how hard you work gets rid of 90% of that.

01:01:30.000 Because people know, people know, that people in our industry know how much I work.

01:01:35.000 They know how much I do.

01:01:37.000 And it's, so it's difficult to be resentful.

01:01:40.000 You know, and I think resentment's a, it's a, it's the opposite of gratitude.

01:01:44.000 It's a poisonous thing.

01:01:46.000 I really love the Friedrich Nietzsche quote on resentment.

01:01:49.000 If you think someone's ruined your life, you're right.

01:01:52.000 It's you.

01:01:53.000 Yeah.

01:01:54.000 Yeah.

01:01:55.000 It's a mic drop of a line.

01:01:56.000 Yeah.

01:01:57.000 And I completely agree with this.

01:01:58.000 Actually, I'm working on a book about gratitude.

01:02:00.000 But the thing is, I have to say, that is a lot easier to feel and think about when you're

01:02:07.000 already successful.

01:02:08.000 When you were working your way up, and I don't know what your career would have been like

01:02:13.000 early on, but everyone has setbacks. 0.99

01:02:15.000 Everyone has, you know, you drive for four hours to some shit gig. 0.99

01:02:18.000 You just crushed it from day one. 0.99

01:02:21.000 What?

01:02:22.000 You had setbacks?

01:02:23.000 Oh, bless him.

01:02:24.000 No, but my success started way before you think it started.

01:02:29.000 It's character versus reputation, right?

01:02:32.000 Yeah.

01:02:33.000 Reputation is what the world thinks about you, right?

01:02:35.000 Yeah.

01:02:36.000 When did the world think I got successful?

01:02:37.000 Well, I don't know.

01:02:38.000 Maybe they don't think I'm successful now.

01:02:40.000 Whatever.

01:02:41.000 I'm selling big venues, and I got Netflix specials, and great.

01:02:44.000 All of that stuff, okay?

01:02:46.000 Well, the locus of control is outside of me.

01:02:49.000 So that's not interesting to me.

01:02:51.000 My character is what I know about myself.

01:02:53.000 Well, when I started getting paid to do stand-up at the Comedy Store in London, 0.98

01:02:56.000 which is a place I used to pay to get into to watch funny people say funny shit. 0.80

01:03:00.000 And then I'm getting paid in cash to do 20 minutes twice a night. 0.97

01:03:05.000 What?

01:03:06.000 Sorry?

01:03:07.000 And I can live my life on there's enough money to live on.

01:03:10.000 That's it.

01:03:11.000 That's success.

01:03:12.000 Now, the amounts of money have increased, and the size of rooms have increased, and all of the other stuff that comes with it.

01:03:18.000 That's all gravy.

01:03:20.000 But from that first time you get paid to be a stand-up comic, that's success.

01:03:26.000 And people have career dysmorphia.

01:03:30.000 People are working as stand-up comedians, telling jokes for money, going to the Edinburgh Festival every year, and thinking,

01:03:36.000 Oh, I'm not successful enough.

01:03:39.000 What are you talking about?

01:03:41.000 You've got the best job in the world, and you're doing it, and you're getting paid to do it.

01:03:46.000 What?

01:03:47.000 How could you complain?

01:03:49.000 I guess what they would say, Jimmy, is that they want to be able to perform to more people.

01:03:55.000 They want more people to see what they do.

01:03:58.000 They believe in what they do in their art, and they feel frustrated that they're only performing to this size of audience.

01:04:05.000 Well, I don't think they'll be able to get this then.

01:04:07.000 But having stuff isn't fun.

01:04:10.000 Getting stuff is fun.

01:04:12.000 It's not the pursuit of happiness.

01:04:14.000 It's the happiness of the pursuit.

01:04:16.000 The happiest years.

01:04:17.000 I mean, I'm having a great time touring at the moment.

01:04:19.000 But those early years in Edinburgh, my God.

01:04:22.000 Those trenches that when you're out there doing it with your friends, you've got your little gang, and the best times.

01:04:29.000 The best times in the world.

01:04:31.000 It's unbelievable.

01:04:32.000 Because you're just starting out, and you're kind of finding your feet, and you're kind of machete through the jungle, trying to find your way.

01:04:39.000 Amazing fun, right?

01:04:41.000 It's the self-help thing.

01:04:44.000 It's not the destination or the journey.

01:04:47.000 It's who you become on the journey.

01:04:49.000 That's the thing.

01:04:50.000 And, you know, saying, well, this level of material wealth is success in comedy.

01:04:57.000 Well, go and work in a city.

01:04:59.000 If you think this is a money game, you're in the wrong competition.

01:05:05.000 Your ladder is leaning against the wrong wall.

01:05:08.000 This isn't.

01:05:09.000 This is about being funny.

01:05:11.000 The telus of comedy is laughter.

01:05:13.000 You want to bring as much laughter as you can to people.

01:05:15.000 You want people to have an incredible experience with you every night.

01:05:20.000 Everyone's got to serve someone, right?

01:05:23.000 Who do you serve?

01:05:25.000 You know, I think there's different things.

01:05:28.000 In my work life, it's the audience.

01:05:30.000 You absolutely, you're in service of the audience.

01:05:33.000 You have their life, right?

01:05:35.000 They've come here.

01:05:36.000 They've paid money, right?

01:05:37.000 They've bought a ticket.

01:05:38.000 Really, when you think about comedy shows, I mean, my shows are not expensive.

01:05:42.000 But they're not cheap either, right?

01:05:43.000 If you work in a regular job, right?

01:05:45.000 And after, you know, chatting to people in the audience, you see what they do.

01:05:47.000 And you think about, my God, right?

01:05:49.000 He's come with a wife and two kids to my show.

01:05:52.000 That's cost him 150 quid with parking and dinner and drinks.

01:05:55.000 That's expensive, right?

01:05:57.000 You've got to deliver for that guy.

01:05:59.000 It's great to be in service of someone.

01:06:02.000 And then in life, I would say in my lesson, I talk to Chris Williamson about this a lot.

01:06:06.000 And George Matt.

01:06:07.000 Do you know those guys?

01:06:08.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:06:09.000 We're very good friends with Chris, yeah.

01:06:10.000 Anyway, we chatted about this idea of like, 24 hours ahead, right?

01:06:14.000 How to live your life.

01:06:15.000 How to live your life successfully.

01:06:17.000 Well, what would you tomorrow be grateful that you today did?

01:06:21.000 That's a great way to live your life.

01:06:24.000 Just to be in service of you tomorrow.

01:06:26.000 To be in service of your potential rather than you right now.

01:06:29.000 Because bad habits pay off immediately in the moment.

01:06:32.000 And good habits pay off later.

01:06:34.000 It's the only difference, right?

01:06:36.000 And you go, well, if I eat right and I go to the gym and I write a couple of jokes today

01:06:41.000 and spend time with family, I'll be glad I did that tomorrow.

01:06:45.000 And repeat.

01:06:47.000 You know, that's the algorithm for life.

01:06:50.000 Whatever works, repeat.

01:06:52.000 You mentioned self-help a lot.

01:06:53.000 And I did read that you studied various things like NLP and whatever when you were younger.

01:06:58.000 This is why I was asking you about, A, how you deal with difficulties.

01:07:01.000 Because look, of course, you're absolutely right.

01:07:03.000 Once you start getting paid to do comedy, do the thing that you love.

01:07:06.000 But nonetheless, everyone has challenges in life.

01:07:09.000 Things happen.

01:07:10.000 And there are difficulties that occur.

01:07:12.000 What are some of the most useful strategies that you've discovered in addition to the one you were just talking about for being effective and being happy and being successful in life?

01:07:22.000 It's agency.

01:07:23.000 Put yourself in charge.

01:07:24.000 But if you put yourself in charge, it's much easier, right?

01:07:27.000 It's harder in the short term, but ultimately it's easier, right?

01:07:30.000 What's the difference between ambition and entitlement?

01:07:36.000 Okay, so where you are now and where you want to be, if you want to do something about it, that's ambition.

01:07:42.000 Great.

01:07:43.000 Where you are now, where you want to be, if you think it's someone else's problem, that's entitlement.

01:07:49.000 And entitlement can come in different ways.

01:07:51.000 You know, it's like it's not necessarily a trust fund kid going, I want daddy to do this for me.

01:07:55.000 But we've all got friends that have got, you know, they're blaming their career on their management

01:07:59.000 or somehow they didn't get the right meeting or the tape didn't arrive on time or something.

01:08:05.000 But they're not putting the locus of control within themselves.

01:08:09.000 If it's within you, I remember like hearing a story about David Tell, the great David Tell,

01:08:14.000 backstage in a place in a couple of comics, whinging about their management or whatever,

01:08:19.000 their representation or their lawyer or something, and where their career was at.

01:08:24.000 And David Tell just went, be funnier.

01:08:27.000 There you go.

01:08:29.000 Really simple.

01:08:30.000 Like, what's the first principles of comedy?

01:08:33.000 Be funnier.

01:08:34.000 For any comic that's having a problem with their career, write 20 incredible one-liners.

01:08:38.000 You really stand out.

01:08:41.000 And we've mentioned David Tell and I love David Tell.

01:08:44.000 I think he's very funny.

01:08:45.000 Very dark, very funny.

01:08:46.000 He might be, he might be, I mean, he's certainly one of the most influential comics

01:08:50.000 that people don't necessarily know.

01:08:53.000 Yeah.

01:08:54.000 Because, I mean, I'd really, it's worth people looking at, I think you'll probably get it on Spotify.

01:08:58.000 Shanks for the Memories is a sort of perfect hour of stand-up comedy.

01:09:03.000 And he did a special called Bumping Mites with Jeff Ross, where they're just kind of rinsing each other on stage.

01:09:09.000 It's really worth checking out.

01:09:11.000 Like, if you're a comedy, because his voice, you might hear it and go, oh, that sounds like quite a lot of comics.

01:09:15.000 Yeah.

01:09:16.000 He started that.

01:09:17.000 Yeah.

01:09:18.000 He's like, he's New York.

01:09:19.000 He goes up very late at the Comedy Cellar and he just, he destroys.

01:09:23.000 And who are the comics that you love, that you really enjoy watching?

01:09:27.000 I mean, my favourite of all time is Chris Rock.

01:09:30.000 I think Chris Rock is a generational talent.

01:09:33.000 He has an incredible ability to generate material that is meaningful and philosophical and hilarious.

01:09:42.000 He's, I've had the pleasure of working with him and know him a little bit.

01:09:44.000 He's just exceptional.

01:09:46.000 I love him.

01:09:47.000 I love Chappelle.

01:09:49.000 I love, I love people that do sort of a similar thing to me.

01:09:53.000 So, you know, Gervais does a similar thing.

01:09:55.000 Jessel Nick does a similar thing.

01:09:56.000 We're kind of in it.

01:09:57.000 You know, there's a, there's, there's, there's almost like a, I love Jim Jefferies.

01:10:01.000 We're digging.

01:10:02.000 We're doing some arenas in Canada later in the year together.

01:10:04.000 We're doing like a double header.

01:10:05.000 It'd be really fun.

01:10:06.000 But that thing of like, I like my, my voice.

01:10:08.000 And then I love, I love Roisin Conaty.

01:10:11.000 I think it's got one of the most original infectious comedy voices.

01:10:15.000 She's incredible.

01:10:16.000 I wish she would do more standup. 1.00

01:10:17.000 I love, you know, Catherine Ryan.

01:10:19.000 I love Beth Stelling.

01:10:22.000 I think it's got an incredible special on Netflix.

01:10:24.000 Extraordinary talent.

01:10:25.000 I mean, it's that thing.

01:10:26.000 I could, I could witter on all day.

01:10:29.000 Neil Brennan's special.

01:10:30.000 I think blocks and three mics are some of the finest.

01:10:33.000 And he's new one.

01:10:34.000 He's brilliant.

01:10:35.000 I've seen it.

01:10:36.000 Crazy good.

01:10:37.000 Yeah.

01:10:38.000 We had Neil on the show when we were in America last time.

01:10:40.000 He's just wonderful.

01:10:42.000 It's so, and then there's the, the elder statesman.

01:10:45.000 There's your, you know, your, your Ron Whites. 0.81

01:10:48.000 And you know, there's, there's, there's older guys that are, you know, Dave Attal, that have been doing it a long time.

01:10:54.000 And they're just perfect.

01:10:56.000 And they're still doing it.

01:10:58.000 That's the great day.

01:10:59.000 They're generating new material and out there on the, on the road.

01:11:01.000 You know, no one's putting their feet up.

01:11:03.000 Jimmy.

01:11:04.000 I'm sorry.

01:11:05.000 No, I was going to say the interesting thing with Chris Rock is, is that Chris Rock is actually very controversial, but he's not controversial in a way because of the topics he tackles, but rather in the way he tackles them.

01:11:17.000 That he's, he doesn't, when people think of what Chris Rock is going to say, a lot of the time they can't predict it.

01:11:25.000 And when he actually talks about a subject, you actually find yourself thinking, I've never actually thought of it like that.

01:11:32.000 I think he's, he's very classically dialectical because he'll set up a thing.

01:11:37.000 He'll say his premise will be, and he'll get the whole audience will boo the premise.

01:11:41.000 Yeah. 0.96

01:11:42.000 And then 10 minutes later that this fucking guy, it's, I mean, he's incredible, but it's that thing where you go to be in that industry, to be, to be able to be on the same bill as someone like that. 0.98

01:11:59.000 It's, I mean, pressure is a privilege. 0.99

01:12:02.000 I really believe it.

01:12:04.000 Like that thing I did.

01:12:05.000 We did gigs in Amsterdam last year.

01:12:07.000 So it was like, who was it?

01:12:09.000 It was Chappelle, Chris Rock and me.

01:12:11.000 That's it.

01:12:12.000 In, in an arena in, in, in Amsterdam.

01:12:16.000 I mean, it was, David just took the roof off.

01:12:19.000 It was just amazing.

01:12:20.000 Just amazing.

01:12:21.000 To be in that room, to be in that company, it's like, it's, it's, you're breathing kind of rarefied air and every day is a school day.

01:12:28.000 You know, it's a great thing with comedy where you go, and sometimes it's the greats.

01:12:32.000 And sometimes you're with kind of relatively new people and, you know, at a festival, whatever, you're watching someone and get something out of that too.

01:12:38.000 You know, it's like, the great thing about comedy is anyone can come up with something fantastic.

01:12:43.000 And people have got great jokes.

01:12:45.000 Yeah.

01:12:46.000 I love that what you said there, the pressure is a privilege.

01:12:49.000 And it's so true, because when you feel pressure, that's a moment where you're in those defining periods of your life, where you know that...

01:12:58.000 Here's the truth of it.

01:12:59.000 Go.

01:13:00.000 You can't have an easy life and a great character.

01:13:07.000 Show me a trust fund kid. 0.96

01:13:10.000 I'll show you someone miserable. 0.98

01:13:13.000 You need a bit of pressure. 0.92

01:13:15.000 You need tough times.

01:13:17.000 You need to, and the problem with life is it's self-assignment.

01:13:21.000 You've got to give yourself that challenge.

01:13:23.000 That's a tough thing.

01:13:25.000 That's kind of tough love, isn't it?

01:13:26.000 That, you know, you need to go and find that adventure for yourself.

01:13:29.000 And the adventure can't be easy.

01:13:30.000 It's not an adventure.

01:13:32.000 It's the teacups.

01:13:33.000 And we all want the roller coaster.

01:13:35.000 It's such a good point.

01:13:36.000 And I think it's one of the reasons that Jordan Peterson became as big as he did, because he was telling people, go out and slay the dragon effectively, which is basically what you're saying.

01:13:44.000 And I'm curious, with your attitude about agency, which I completely agree with, it's interesting that we do seem to live in an age where a lot of people are being counseled to go in the opposite direction and see themselves as a victim of circumstance, victim of the political system, victim of this, victim of that.

01:14:02.000 What do you make of that?

01:14:03.000 Well, I mean, I would defer to Chris Rock on this, who made an exceptional point the night he was slapped by Will Smith.

01:14:12.000 He said there's two, the biggest addiction, the biggest addiction in America is not fentanyl, it's attention.

01:14:21.000 And there's three ways to get attention.

01:14:24.000 You can be excellent at something, you can be notorious, or you can be a victim.

01:14:31.000 And those incentives, it's tough to be excellent.

01:14:36.000 And it's easier to be a victim.

01:14:38.000 And that thing of going, that mentality.

01:14:40.000 I just, you know, it's not that people aren't victims.

01:14:42.000 Some people are victims.

01:14:43.000 But is it going to define the rest of your life?

01:14:45.000 Is it, you know, that thing that JK Rowling said, this brilliant thing about childhood.

01:14:51.000 Some people have very, very tough childhoods.

01:14:54.000 Right?

01:14:55.000 Incredibly tough.

01:14:56.000 What's the statute of limitations on that?

01:14:58.000 Because I think if a 16 year old said to me, oh my God, I've come up through the system, it's been really tough.

01:15:04.000 You've got nothing but empathy, right?

01:15:06.000 Yeah.

01:15:07.000 But if a 40 year old says that, you go, ah, the thing is though, eh?

01:15:14.000 And at what point, where do you draw the line?

01:15:17.000 Well, the answer is somewhere.

01:15:19.000 Somewhere along there, you draw the line.

01:15:21.000 You go, well, you need to, you need to take a stand.

01:15:24.000 So it's that thing of, I don't know how we do this.

01:15:27.000 I mean, it's a very big problem.

01:15:29.000 But you go, how do you, you know, give a man a fish? 0.81

01:15:32.000 Teach him how to fish.

01:15:34.000 How do you give people agency?

01:15:37.000 Because the sympathy and compassion is, it's no good because no one cares enough about your life.

01:15:42.000 No one cares enough to live it for you.

01:15:45.000 That's right.

01:15:46.000 And interesting, you mentioned childhood.

01:15:49.000 What was your childhood like?

01:15:51.000 Um, I had a wonderful mother, an incredibly funny, larger than life character.

01:15:58.000 If ever you have a comedian on this show, I'll give you the cheat sheet.

01:16:01.000 Here's the question you should ask.

01:16:02.000 Which of your parents were sick?

01:16:05.000 Pretty much every comic I know had a sick parent, either physically or mentally.

01:16:09.000 My mother was, uh, suffered with depression.

01:16:11.000 And so being able to change the mood and to make her happy and make her laugh was something that, so I became the thermostat mood-wise in the house.

01:16:22.000 I was able to do that, to make people laugh, to make things okay.

01:16:26.000 And that then becomes a pathology.

01:16:30.000 That's kind of how you get into it, I guess.

01:16:33.000 Which is very funny, but also, yeah, very...

01:16:35.000 And then, you know, your childhood, it's normalized.

01:16:38.000 Whatever was normal for you, you think is the same for everyone.

01:16:43.000 Jimmy, it's been an absolute pleasure.

01:16:46.000 I can't believe your luck.

01:16:49.000 It's great.

01:16:50.000 I'm such a fan of the show.

01:16:51.000 I think it's really, you know, important what you guys are doing.

01:16:53.000 Why?

01:16:54.000 I think it's that thing if you go, the...

01:16:56.000 What's lacking in the world is conversation.

01:16:59.000 Yeah.

01:17:00.000 And feeling like you're in a conversation.

01:17:02.000 And actually, I spend a lot of my life on my own.

01:17:05.000 I like my own company.

01:17:06.000 And I like listening.

01:17:07.000 And I like that thing of going, and it just sort of, you go off in different directions.

01:17:12.000 You go off in different tangents.

01:17:13.000 And you have very interesting conversations.

01:17:15.000 I love the breadth of guests that you have on the show.

01:17:19.000 I love the fact that, you know, it's very open.

01:17:22.000 It's a very safe space for people to chat.

01:17:25.000 I think it's really adding value.

01:17:27.000 And in a world where increasingly the, you know, traditional media outlets aren't trusted,

01:17:33.000 what we need is like longer form.

01:17:35.000 Because actually, over a two-hour interview, there's nowhere to hide.

01:17:39.000 You know, it's all very well doing publicity on, you know...

01:17:42.000 I mean, I'll be on the one show next week, I'm sure.

01:17:44.000 Yeah.

01:17:45.000 And it's great. It's fun.

01:17:46.000 But it's three minutes of going, hey, I've got a new special.

01:17:48.000 You should watch it. It's great.

01:17:49.000 Yeah.

01:17:50.000 It's like, it's an authentic conversation.

01:17:51.000 It's like, it's a chance for me to kind of show who, oh, well, look.

01:17:55.000 That could be funny.

01:17:56.000 Watch the special. Great.

01:17:57.000 But also, this is who I am, if you're interested.

01:18:00.000 And it's lovely to be able to share that.

01:18:03.000 And it is because in a world, if you think about the media landscape 10, 20 years ago,

01:18:09.000 you didn't really have that much of a say about how you were presented.

01:18:13.000 There could be times where you were misrepresented, and you're like, well, that wasn't what I said,

01:18:18.000 or that's not what I think.

01:18:19.000 But it's tough.

01:18:20.000 The story's out there.

01:18:21.000 Whereas now, you actually have the opportunity to present who you are.

01:18:25.000 Yeah.

01:18:26.000 Yeah.

01:18:27.000 No, the gatekeepers are kind of gone.

01:18:28.000 Mm.

01:18:29.000 Yeah.

01:18:30.000 It's great.

01:18:31.000 I think it's really valuable what you're doing.

01:18:32.000 More power to you.

01:18:33.000 It's so exciting, man.

01:18:34.000 And we really appreciate you having on the show.

01:18:35.000 And I will say you've been very supportive of us, you know, behind the scenes as well.

01:18:38.000 Yeah, of course.

01:18:39.000 So it's a great privilege to have you on.

01:18:41.000 We're going to move to locals where we're going to ask some questions from our audience.

01:18:44.000 Ooh.

01:18:45.000 But before we do, and actually, before.

01:18:47.000 Pay up.

01:18:48.000 Yeah.

01:18:49.000 You're watching this for free.

01:18:50.000 Get the locals thing.

01:18:51.000 It's worth getting it.

01:18:52.000 Also, you're supporting new media.

01:18:54.000 Yeah.

01:18:55.000 This boy's got to eat.

01:18:56.000 Well said, Jimmy.

01:18:57.000 Yeah, thank you.

01:18:58.000 And our last question, always the same.

01:19:00.000 What's the one thing we're not talking about that we really shouldn't be?

01:19:04.000 Natural Born Killer, my new special on Netflix, currently streaming.

01:19:07.000 We just talked about it for two hours, mate.

01:19:09.000 They're not talking about it enough.

01:19:10.000 Yeah.

01:19:11.000 Actually, we didn't either.

01:19:12.000 We didn't even mention it.

01:19:13.000 So, fair point.

01:19:14.000 Go watch your special.

01:19:15.000 It is great.

01:19:16.000 Yeah, it is.

01:19:17.000 Thanks for having us on.

01:19:18.000 All right.

01:19:19.000 Head on over to locals.

01:19:20.000 Pay up.

01:19:21.000 Yeah.

01:19:22.000 Get the locals thing.

01:19:23.000 I'm just getting it.

01:19:24.000 When the prime minister of the country that you live in breaks off from the G20 summit

01:19:27.000 to do a press conference about your personal tax affairs, that's going to be a problem.

01:19:31.000 When is Jimmy going to apologize for his take on the vaccines?

01:19:36.000 No wonder they're not going to take the vaccine. 1.00

01:19:39.000 They can't even take a fucking joke. 1.00

01:19:42.000 Anyone in the Illuminati gets it first. 1.00

01:19:44.000 .

01:19:45.000 That's the virus, right?

01:19:46.000 That's the virus, right?

01:19:47.000 .

01:19:48.000 .

01:19:49.000 .

TRIGGERnometry - April 17, 2024

Politics, Religion & Cancel Culture - Jimmy Carr

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