TRIGGERnometry - Posie Parker：＂Trans Women Aren't Women＂

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00:00:30.000 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantin Kishin. And this is a

00:00:40.000 show for you if you're bored with people arguing on the internet over subjects they know nothing

00:00:45.100 about. At Trigonometry, we don't pretend to be the experts, we ask the experts. Our guest this

00:00:51.400 week is a controversial women's right campaigner, Posi Parker. Welcome to Trigonometry. Thank you

00:00:56.420 very much i added the word controversial to your introduction i think it's merited i think that's

00:01:00.620 fair to say it is controversial yes to assert what i do yeah yeah well uh for anyone who doesn't know

00:01:06.680 what you do tell us a little bit about who you are how are you where you are particularly this

00:01:11.760 chair right now what's been your journey through life that's brought you here okay so about 2015

00:01:16.300 i when the tories were elected i was a firm labor member and had always voted labor in my adult life

00:01:23.640 I'm Jewish, by the way.

00:01:26.640 And the Tories got elected.

00:01:30.560 And I think most people are really shocked after the coalition.

00:01:32.940 I think everybody thought that good old Jeremy was going to get his chance.

00:01:36.920 Thankfully, he didn't.

00:01:39.260 And I joined this massive lefty forum, and it was called Amazing Lefty Women or Awesome Lefty Women.

00:01:45.900 And I joined when I was about 500 members, and it went up to a 20,000 membership.

00:01:50.620 and mainly women very disorganized having no clue just whining about what was going on

00:01:57.960 but then something interesting started happening and that was lots of men who identified as women

00:02:05.060 started joining and I sort of I was a bit skirting around it didn't couldn't really

00:02:11.880 understand what was happening there was lots of sort of she and oh my gosh you're so stunning

00:02:15.640 and brave. Those sort of lots of fawning. And when you say lots of men, how many are you talking

00:02:21.220 when you say lots? Was it a few people? Well, about 20 sort of, you know, and they stuck out

00:02:26.640 a mile. Many of them looked like truckers in a dress. And this one man came in and he told like

00:02:33.820 a Bernard Manning type joke. And the essence of which I think the punchline was a feminist tied

00:02:39.860 to my radiator in the basement after a beating or something, some sort of male violence type thing

00:02:44.600 that generally women don't tell jokes like that.

00:02:48.560 And I was sort of, are you sure you identify as a woman?

00:02:54.080 And I could sort of hear this northern sort of 1970s comic voice

00:02:58.740 every time I sort of read something that he said.

00:03:00.700 It was just really weird.

00:03:03.580 And he went absolutely nuts at me.

00:03:07.740 But that was bad.

00:03:08.680 But all the women joined in saying that I was hateful, disgusting, transphobic.

00:03:14.600 How could I question this man or woman? They would say he knows better than I do how he identifies.

00:03:21.340 And so then I was switched on to actually if I'm not allowed to talk about this and this is obviously very serious and I need to talk about it as much as I possibly can.

00:03:29.980 Found like minded people had sort of secret things online and then we just noticed the language just disappearing.

00:03:36.980 and then I was interviewed by the police for making comments about mermaids

00:03:43.820 saying that I thought transitioning children was abuse

00:03:46.640 and I talked about Susie Green taking her son to Thailand

00:03:50.460 and having castrated for his 16th birthday

00:03:52.680 which I thought was an unusual gift

00:03:54.600 I'm sure my mum fantasised about doing that at times

00:03:59.100 and I just made these comments

00:04:02.860 and then I got interviewed under caution by the police

00:04:05.260 and I think I was one of the first women

00:04:07.100 to be interviewed by the police for this.

00:04:10.120 What was it specifically that you said?

00:04:11.680 Sorry.

00:04:11.920 So it's six tweets.

00:04:13.340 So there's a couple of really sinister things about this.

00:04:16.260 Number one, it was six tweets.

00:04:17.400 It was things like,

00:04:18.200 transitioning children is abuse.

00:04:20.080 I think I'd,

00:04:22.400 so I'm banned from Twitter forever.

00:04:24.040 My IP address is banned.

00:04:25.960 And I'd said they'd had...

00:04:27.900 I can get a Russian maid to sort you out with a new IP.

00:04:30.240 That's no problem.

00:04:30.820 I can't be bothered.

00:04:31.360 It's such a cesspit.

00:04:33.100 I'm quite happy not to be on it.

00:04:34.600 But they'd teamed up with Magnum ice creams.

00:04:40.080 And so I'd sort of said it was a bit like, hey, kids, do you want some sweeties, you know, come.

00:04:45.280 And it was a bit grooming.

00:04:46.500 And I'd make comments about that.

00:04:48.340 And I'd also said that she'd castrated the boy.

00:04:53.800 And the police approached Twitter, who released my contact information.

00:05:00.300 And this was at a time where they couldn't get a jihadis address.

00:05:03.160 but they got my my details released from twitter um which is why i think by the time i was

00:05:10.660 interviewed it was february and i'd made the comments the september before so that was that

00:05:16.100 was quite sinister i thought and what was the police process like was it just one interview

00:05:20.420 was it a series of interviews it's one interview it was about an hour and a half um they text me

00:05:27.300 right so they um they text me and said oh we'd like to get in touch with you and i just ignored

00:05:32.760 it because i had no idea that the police texted people can we interview you and so i thought it

00:05:39.780 was like a prank and somebody had managed to get my number um and they persisted and so i i phoned

00:05:45.900 him back and it was this cheap cheeky chap from yorkshire who was uh well you know we've all had

00:05:51.600 conversations about it around the dinner table he's all lovely and friendly and then i spoke to

00:05:56.880 my sort of online group and they said you should get a solicitor don't go to that interview

00:06:01.860 without someone. So I got a solicitor who is this six foot four, very posh, older gentleman,

00:06:10.180 the sort of guy that was so posh, he could stop in the middle of a sentence and people would just

00:06:14.480 wait until he continued. You know, that sort of that gravitas. And he came along with me and I

00:06:20.660 wrote a pre-prepared, a prepared statement and just that was read out. But she had given the

00:06:29.100 police, a five page account of my tweets. And most of that was her life story with her son

00:06:38.260 and why he transitioned. And that was read out in full in the police interview. And they've

00:06:45.820 sort of said things like, did you know that actually sex reassignment surgery doesn't

00:06:51.320 include castration? Just mind blowing. What did they think that sex reassignment

00:06:58.960 surgery actually was did they honestly think that boy came home with his testicles intact

00:07:03.860 you know it's just it was insane and they called me hateful for calling Janet Mock a man um and at

00:07:11.160 the end of it they sort of asked my solicitor what what he thought they should do uh because I

00:07:16.780 hadn't spoken I just sort of had to sit there defiantly and just say no comment um and obviously

00:07:22.120 I've watched a lot of movies I thought I was quite good at no comment and uh they recommended it to

00:07:27.240 the CPS, they pushed it forward to try and get me prosecuted for malicious communications, hate

00:07:33.680 speech, a conspiracy, because other people had said similar things to me. So it was like there

00:07:39.880 was a conspiracy against Susie Green, not that she's a public figure receiving millions of public

00:07:45.800 money, or certainly half a million of lottery funding to go and spread her odious little

00:07:51.020 message to small children. And what was the result of that prosecution?

00:07:56.160 They didn't.

00:07:56.860 They didn't go forward with it.

00:07:58.260 So the CPS decided there wasn't enough evidence.

00:08:01.320 Surprisingly.

00:08:02.120 Yeah, I would say shocked.

00:08:03.160 Okay.

00:08:03.580 And you're wearing a T-shirt with the definition of a woman.

00:08:08.200 And that is part of a campaign that you then organized.

00:08:11.340 Yes.

00:08:11.740 So tell us about that.

00:08:12.560 So in about July of, there's been a couple of controversies about me by that point by women from my own side.

00:08:21.200 Nasty, defamatory, horrible, typical leftist behavior.

00:08:24.400 and so I was a little bit controversial at that point within my own movement and I wanted to do

00:08:30.840 something that sort of what was the essence of this what was really going on and what it was is

00:08:36.060 we couldn't talk about being women anymore so we couldn't use a word we couldn't use female

00:08:41.200 language and people knew exactly what we meant like women were beginning to be told that we had

00:08:46.380 to put cis in front of our name or that trans women are women and so I wanted to get this word

00:08:51.680 back. And I thought, well, I think if we put something, first I was going to do a Times advert,

00:08:57.260 but I didn't have 40 grand. If we're going to push these people, what basically we need to do

00:09:04.840 is we need to allow these trans activists to speak. Because when they speak, everybody will

00:09:09.920 hear just how insane their demands are. And we knew that if we put something really neutral

00:09:15.340 up on a billboard that said woman, the definition of woman, that they would kick off and they would

00:09:21.420 have a real big problem with that. And they did. And the way I did it is I raised money through

00:09:26.560 selling t-shirts and stickers. And you say they've got insane demands. What are their demands?

00:09:32.500 Well, they sort of say trans rights. And then you say, well, what are those rights? Because as a man

00:09:40.460 or a woman in this country, you're allowed to pretty much do the same sort of things. You know,

00:09:44.740 I have a little bit of right when it comes to maternity, because actually growing a baby inside

00:09:50.700 your body is something I think deserves a little bit of room. But generally speaking, I don't know

00:09:56.980 what rights they don't have except to invade women's spaces. That seems to be the beginning

00:10:02.420 and end of the demand, is the demand. So transgenderism is to pretend to be the opposite

00:10:11.660 sex or to lie about your sex. And transphobia is the refusal to believe that lie.

00:10:17.920 And you say invade women's spaces. So what do you mean by that? Is it changing rooms? Is it

00:10:22.400 toilets? Is it? It's every, it's all of them. It's all of the things that we've carved out of

00:10:27.720 a society that we say, that's for one sex or that's for another. So anytime that a woman goes

00:10:35.160 into a toilet, you know, it's a different experience to a man the majority of the time.

00:10:41.420 For a start, we have more things to remove in order to do it. So we're much more vulnerable

00:10:45.220 because we're in a bigger state of undress most of the time.

00:10:49.380 And we also have other functions in a toilet.

00:10:51.860 So I don't want to share that with a man.

00:10:54.180 And quite frankly, men's toilets and women's toilets are very different spaces.

00:10:59.740 You are a lot more dirty, generally, as a group of people.

00:11:04.900 I'm triggered.

00:11:06.260 It's an undeniable reality.

00:11:08.280 I've gone into both toilets just to make sure.

00:11:11.200 Sorry, Posey, it wasn't a safe space when I was there.

00:11:13.140 And just like you, no charges were brought.

00:11:17.060 Not yet, anyway.

00:11:19.140 But Posey, you use quite a, I would say, a lot of people would say some of the language that you've just used,

00:11:25.660 and you're perfectly entitled, in my opinion, to use it, but a lot of people would consider it inflammatory.

00:11:30.480 So when you talk about people pretending to be the other sex, about lying about those things.

00:11:36.880 You know, both Francis and I, we work with trans people in comedy.

00:11:41.300 We've had a trans guest on the show.

00:11:43.460 I know personally people who are trans.

00:11:46.060 And there is such a thing as gender dysphoria.

00:11:48.920 Would you accept that?

00:11:49.960 I think there is a very rare cases that there may be something that people label gender dysphoria, yes.

00:11:56.600 And the theory currently is scientifically that something happens in utero where the fetus is bombarded with certain…

00:12:04.600 Is there that theory?

00:12:06.420 I believe there is, yeah.

00:12:07.520 Peer-reviewed quality?

00:12:09.620 No, there isn't.

00:12:10.400 There isn't.

00:12:11.080 Okay.

00:12:11.560 Well, let's say there is the assertion then that that is the case.

00:12:14.800 Okay.

00:12:15.540 So there are people, and I know people who are like this, who say, look, from the age

00:12:20.420 of three, I've known I was the opposite sex.

00:12:22.420 That has never wavered.

00:12:23.740 I've been that way.

00:12:24.920 And the earlier I transitioned, the better it would have been for me.

00:12:27.580 I'm 50 years old now.

00:12:28.860 I am the opposite sex to the sex with which I was born, and I could not be happier, and

00:12:33.980 my life is now completely different.

00:12:36.140 I fully transitioned chemically and physically.

00:12:39.520 I've had the surgery I've been reassigned is that someone pretending to be the opposite I mean

00:12:44.840 they've gone to quite a lot of trouble haven't they to pretend? Well that would be a different

00:12:48.040 it it's immaterial whether or not that person is absolutely right in their belief I don't really

00:12:55.100 know how we could explore that to find out if they are right but it's immaterial to me and

00:13:00.460 women's spaces whether or not that person really believes it or just gets aroused you know it

00:13:07.440 doesn't it's what that doesn't matter to me it's still women's spaces and they are not coming in

00:13:12.620 well no but my point is about the language to start with we'll get into the second point but

00:13:17.880 my point is about the language someone who has gone through an extensive expensive painful

00:13:24.500 difficult process to completely alter their body and mind as it turns out which home hormones do

00:13:31.380 right yeah are they really pretending to be the other sex are they lying about the pretending is

00:13:37.440 a is a are they pretending to be the opposite sex well they're not the opposite sex

00:13:42.560 so they can only be pretending because they're not the thing that they say they are

00:13:47.620 um if you look at somebody like juno roche who's written about uh his experience transitioning

00:13:53.860 just the language that they use that many of those people use and india willoughby when he was on

00:14:00.380 big brother. He acted absolutely like a man. He shouted in an 80-year-old woman's face,

00:14:09.620 I am a real woman, and did this and said, you know, let that penetrate, which I thought was

00:14:15.380 a very interesting term for him to use. But he absolutely acted like a man. He massaged his

00:14:23.540 naked, brand new breasts every night on the television. He's a father to a child. And

00:14:32.400 a lot of these men that transition late, it's just, it's so absolutely destructive to their

00:14:38.300 families, to their children. I've spoken to children that there's not a word for children

00:14:44.780 whose parents transition, but they go through a lot of grief and a lot of gaslighting before

00:14:49.800 their parent transitions. And then women are called trans widows. And with these men,

00:14:55.880 and I don't know enough about India to comment and to group him in this category, but I've read

00:15:01.380 so many accounts of autogynephiliac men who talk about selfies, who withdraw from their intimate

00:15:09.320 relationships, who, you know, it's too, even if they go through the full surgery,

00:15:16.880 there is too much evidence that i've read to suggest that the majority of them uh these days

00:15:23.380 the ones that are vocal uh are just it's just a fetish but it's it's beyond like most people's

00:15:30.000 fetish where you take it off again it's the it's embodying a woman's body and falling in love with

00:15:35.220 yourself as a woman we had india willoughby on the show and this is another thing you you you

00:15:41.920 kept calling india he right india said just i'm a woman i'm perfectly happy to call her she as a

00:15:49.980 matter of politeness whatever i may or may not think about it right we had her on she talked

00:15:54.360 about her experience she is the example i was talking about earlier where it's someone that i

00:15:58.760 think i remember asking her um if you could have transitioned at five would you and and india said

00:16:07.240 Absolutely. Right. And throughout talking to her, I mean, I think it's fair to say for both of us that we were persuaded by her experience that this was a genuine case of someone with gender dysphoria.

00:16:20.180 So why are you so militant about calling India he, about insisting that this is a fetish?

00:16:29.340 I think if you listen to someone like that and hear their story, I genuinely can't understand that somebody would go through everything that she's been through just because it's a fetish or a fad or whatever.

00:16:44.660 I got a genuine sense that this is a person who'd been struggling a lot with their identity

00:16:49.040 and came to a position where they're happy now with who they are.

00:16:55.540 Right.

00:16:56.600 Do you know what I'm saying?

00:16:57.720 I do know what you're saying.

00:16:59.040 So why call her he and insist on that?

00:17:01.200 Why is that so important, Posi?

00:17:02.980 Because when you're talking, when you describe men, you have to be able to use language that makes sense,

00:17:09.220 that doesn't cloud what's really going on.

00:17:12.280 So if I decide that I'm going to go down the road of using she, then that's a thin end of the wedge.

00:17:20.080 And the end of the wedge is that when we talk about a man who's raped women, we call him she.

00:17:25.640 Or then when there was someone on a tube attacked in a tube station and it was by four women.

00:17:32.040 And it wasn't by four women.

00:17:33.420 I think they were four men.

00:17:36.120 But we then can't talk about male violence because we're talking about she and woman.

00:17:43.580 So I just absolutely categorically refuse to do it.

00:17:46.960 For a start, I don't see India remotely as a woman.

00:17:50.840 When I look at India, I see a man.

00:17:52.780 When I engage with India, which I did on this morning, I definitely read him as a man.

00:17:59.640 And even if you knew somebody personally and they said to you,

00:18:05.080 I prefer to be referred to as she, you would still insist as referring to them as he?

00:18:10.680 I probably wouldn't refer to them as anything if I like the person.

00:18:14.080 And I do have some friends who are trans.

00:18:18.380 Most of them are very, they see themselves as men now.

00:18:23.400 I think they've come through the other side of it.

00:18:25.880 And some of them question what on earth they've done to themselves.

00:18:29.700 So I probably would avoid pronouns altogether.

00:18:33.580 I'm not going to sort of sit with somebody that I like or respect and try and upset them.

00:18:39.200 When I was on this morning, I think I referred to India as they, but I certainly wouldn't say she.

00:18:45.880 Well, by the way, I know we're pushing back against some of the things you're saying.

00:18:49.360 It's not because we're entirely in disagreement with everything, but that point particularly strikes me as an area where sometimes it's tempting to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

00:18:59.280 I think politeness and, you know, a certain amount of consideration for people's experience is also important.

00:19:06.900 I do think we overdo empathy in our society, absolutely, and it's been weaponized as a weapon against people.

00:19:12.760 And there is a lot of evidence now a lot of people are unhappy to have transitioned.

00:19:17.060 Yeah.

00:19:17.320 That is absolutely the case.

00:19:18.620 So we're fully on board with that.

00:19:21.740 So explain to me the safe spaces thing because trans people have always existed, right?

00:19:27.300 Is that fair to say?

00:19:28.560 Yeah.

00:19:29.000 Okay. So where would those people have peed before someone who dressed as a woman had a

00:19:33.980 male anatomy, hadn't transitioned in any way, but dressed as a woman, tried to look as much

00:19:38.820 as they could as a woman? Would they not have been in women's toilets this whole time?

00:19:42.680 Well, they may have been intimidating women in their own spaces all this time. Yeah.

00:19:47.840 Why is it? And this is, again, we're two men, so we may not get this. We perfectly accept that,

00:19:53.340 which is why we want to have you on the show. But why is it necessarily intimidating? If someone

00:19:58.200 who more or less looks female walks into a female bathroom uses the bathroom in a way that no other

00:20:04.540 woman can see them using right there's no urinals in female toilets walks out washes their hands

00:20:09.980 doesn't say anything to anyone just like most 99 of people do yeah why is that intimidating women

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00:20:47.580 Because a woman's space has a very special place and feel,

00:20:53.440 it's a safe space, and it's such an awful phrase.

00:20:57.540 It's been so terribly, badly used over the years.

00:21:01.640 But it literally is a safe space.

00:21:04.140 It's where we go that we can guarantee that we're away from men.

00:21:07.660 And I don't say that as someone who's like, you know, I've never been a victim of sexual assault.

00:21:13.200 I've got a very happy marriage.

00:21:15.100 I've got three sons and a daughter.

00:21:17.200 And when I think about men in women's toilets, I think about my 13-year-old daughter.

00:21:24.300 And I think about my 13-year-old self.

00:21:26.260 and I think about women that have been sexually assaulted and I think who's more important to me

00:21:32.380 and it's never the man who needs to validate his identity by going in a woman's space it's always

00:21:37.760 going to be the 13 year old who would be terribly embarrassed and feel nervous you know if if you go

00:21:42.860 for a bra fitting in Marks and Spencers and it's your first bra fitting and you don't want to be

00:21:47.620 there anyway because it's highly embarrassing and it's awful and it's you know adolescence is our

00:21:52.640 most sensitive time it's when we feel the most embarrassment if you're in that women's space

00:21:58.540 and then you hear a male voice it's it's not nice and it's it's not because you think they're going

00:22:04.800 to pervert you or they're going to attack you or anything it just changes the very feel of

00:22:10.600 everything that's happening in that place that's why so those men that um and frankly i don't know

00:22:17.600 any I don't I've never seen a trans woman that passes which could be sort of Schroeder's cat as

00:22:23.240 in if I haven't seen them that means they pass Blair White for example would be someone to

00:22:27.140 no he didn't used to though did he before like hundreds of thousands of dollars of surgery

00:22:31.900 but now you look at Blair White he also he also performs he performs bobbling womanhood all the

00:22:39.800 time um i happen to like him but for me i've seen him way before he looked like he does right now

00:22:49.360 but you know there's plenty of women that look like blair if you go to the same surgeon you

00:22:53.540 all look the same i guess what i'm saying is if blair white walks into a toilet where your 13

00:22:57.600 year old daughter is why is that intimidating well then you talk about passing which a lot

00:23:03.920 trans people find really offensive you're not allowed to talk about that it's called trigonometry

00:23:07.900 for reasons. Then you're talking about passing and then who gets to decide? Like we have rules

00:23:14.640 in society. They're not so that every second of every day we can make a thousand decisions

00:23:18.580 whether or not to uphold the rule. These are just the rules. These are the socially acceptable rules

00:23:23.940 that actually, if you're a man, and if you're a man, don't come in women's spaces in toilets.

00:23:31.240 And you talk about, you know, the thin end of the wedge. What is your fear if we don't

00:23:36.700 address the trans issue head on? And if you don't start protecting women's spaces,

00:23:41.440 where do you think it could end up in a few years?

00:23:44.600 That we don't have any women's spaces at all. And then we don't have any privacy. And it's

00:23:50.140 mass gaslighting to sort of say to women that they're not allowed to feel uncomfortable.

00:23:55.240 They have to go override those feelings already happening in schools and places with girls where

00:24:01.100 so during adolescence, you have the embarrassment bit, but you also have the peer bit.

00:24:05.900 So you want, and I think it's an evolutionary process of like pushing away from your parents towards peers so you don't procreate with your parents.

00:24:14.640 That's my very unscientific idea.

00:24:18.200 But so these girls have this thing going on with them where they have to fit in with their friends.

00:24:25.720 They can't be transphobic and unaccepting.

00:24:27.640 But at the same time, they're having to overcome their feelings of absolute embarrassment, which is a kind of a global developmental phenomenon.

00:24:35.520 It happens in all cultures. So it's not just over here. So that's one thing that we don't have spaces. But the real harm is that children are having their bodies mutilated and altered in irreversible ways. And that's happening more and more and more.

00:24:53.600 and it's becoming almost like people have forgotten their brains that people think it's a

00:24:59.980 great idea that parents get complimented when their kids go on pewdie blockers because they're

00:25:05.160 so super brave. Well I mean let's explore this a lot so I'm a former teacher and it wasn't really

00:25:12.580 a thing when I was teaching I only left the profession last year. Right. So tell us a little

00:25:17.460 bit about that what is actually happening in schools now and particularly any examples you

00:25:21.160 can give um well there's a whole bunch of weird stuff happening with sex and schools and what we

00:25:27.640 think it's right for adults to talk about with children in a school setting um for example my

00:25:33.180 11 year old daughter had a slide up when they talked about hygiene and one of the slides is

00:25:38.560 you should wash after sex to a group of 11 11 year olds and when i took that into school with the

00:25:44.500 with the teacher,

00:25:47.660 beliefs and values teacher.

00:25:48.440 Do you have to do that?

00:25:51.000 I would have thought it was before.

00:25:52.240 I wish someone told me

00:25:53.360 when I was 11

00:25:54.040 my sex life would be

00:25:55.500 a lot better now.

00:25:56.720 Well, you are married, mate.

00:25:58.180 But also there's

00:25:59.140 the transphobic thing,

00:26:00.680 so transphobic language.

00:26:02.480 They also teach

00:26:03.380 trans ideology

00:26:05.120 as if that is

00:26:07.460 something that we all know.

00:26:09.100 When you say trans ideology,

00:26:10.440 what is it that they're teaching kids?

00:26:11.760 Well, that some people are trans

00:26:13.060 and that it's possible

00:26:14.260 to change sex so they might sort of talk to kids mermaids do this wonderful this is not this is

00:26:21.020 going to sound like i'm making it up but it's not it's true it goes into schools and it's this long

00:26:25.580 line of jelly baby people and you've got like a stick thing barbie pink at one end and the other

00:26:31.820 end you've got brown gi joe and then the spectrum of colors kids have to pick where they are so if

00:26:37.400 you're a boy and you kind of feel like you're over here then maybe really you're a girl and you're in

00:26:42.620 the wrong body. Or maybe if you like Barbies and trucks, you might be non-binary. And kids have to

00:26:50.480 think about that. Now, as far as I'm concerned, kids should have to think about what they're

00:26:55.580 going to do at playtime, what they're going to learn, what they're going to eat for lunch,

00:27:00.840 and what time school finishes so they can go home and watch TV. That's a beginning and end of what

00:27:08.020 I think children should be concerned with at school. We have absolutely terrible rates of

00:27:13.080 maths and English sort of skill level. And so I don't know if we've got time in the curriculum to

00:27:19.440 pump their primary school heads full of this absolute shit.

00:27:24.020 Is it not a really sexist way of looking at gender or sex in this case? Because

00:27:28.820 you're basically saying that being a man is about playing with trucks,

00:27:32.760 when a lot of men don't necessarily like playing with trucks.

00:27:35.880 I love trucks. Exactly. And equally, there are women who don't like playing with dolls and who

00:27:41.660 who have a you know, there are many women who dress and behave in ways that are very masculine

00:27:46.400 without ceasing to be women. So is one of the reasons that feminists oppose this, this idea

00:27:52.860 that it essentially reinforces gender stereotypes about men and women? Absolutely. Well, it's all

00:27:58.480 about that the way that you behave becomes more important than the body you're born in. I mean,

00:28:04.260 I sit here is clearly very feminine um maybe not in my mannerisms or in my opinions we don't see

00:28:12.380 gender it's just like an orb to us but um of course it's it's uh regressive that we think that

00:28:24.840 if somebody puts enough makeup on and a good enough wig or often very bad um and clothes and

00:28:32.340 fake breasts that suddenly they're more likely to cry at bambi you know it's it's and they're

00:28:38.780 female it's ridiculous and so you're talking about non-binary um i i i i'm gonna admit this

00:28:46.360 what is non-binary i don't know what non-binary is it's ever so special it's basically everybody

00:28:52.280 because none of us fit into very male very female do we i mean my my husband definitely do

00:28:59.220 i'm russian so yeah we have only one gender in russia but it's it's absolutely nonsensical

00:29:07.160 and if you ask a number i think douglas murray talked about this if you ask sam smith what

00:29:10.840 non-binary is he's like i don't know i'm just finding out well yeah makes it doesn't really

00:29:14.580 exist because it's just a made-up thing you know i thought when i was a little girl growing up i

00:29:19.380 was really good at maths my favorite toy was a garage that my dad built us because we were so

00:29:23.540 very poor um and i like i all my friends were boys because i really like playing star wars and

00:29:30.980 picking up um crane flies in there and throwing them at people you know that's how i spent my

00:29:36.040 my childhood so was i non-binary i mean i had corduroy dungarees was i just tasteless

00:29:42.100 you know it's um it's quite insane well you know this uh thing about children i think that

00:29:47.900 is the crux of the issue because open-minded liberal people if you want to be called she

00:29:55.040 i'm not that bothered honestly maybe i there's things i don't understand enough about it

00:29:59.620 that but if someone wants to be called she i'm perfectly happy to do it uh maybe if i was a

00:30:05.040 someone with a beard in a dress i'd struggle to do that and i might avoid it but generally speaking

00:30:10.680 most people i think in the country broadly speaking are going to be like yeah whatever

00:30:15.500 Just, you know, don't go to extremes.

00:30:18.360 But when you get to the kids thing, that I think is where you start to lose people.

00:30:22.260 And I can give you an example from my own family.

00:30:25.300 I have three younger sisters, the middle one of which told me last year that for a year, my mom reminded me of this, for a year she thought she was a boy when she was eight years old.

00:30:36.420 And she is now the most feminine, long-haired, pretty, loves pink, glitter, like in the traditional stereotypical way.

00:30:43.900 the most feminine woman you could meet, right? Now, if you'd said to my mom when my sister was

00:30:50.680 eight, you need to take her, give her hormones, give her gender, I think my mom would have more

00:30:56.520 than words for you. And I think that is where a lot of this issue really comes into a lot of

00:31:02.700 conflict where you start to talk about encouraging the transitioning of children. Well, in America,

00:31:09.440 you can have your breast sliced off at the age of 12 and you can do it at 15 without your parents

00:31:15.380 consent in uh oregon right so and in one hospital in marin county uh of which of course there are

00:31:24.580 thousands of hospitals across america but in one hospital alone they give uh they do double

00:31:29.320 mastectomies on young teens uh four to six a day and by young teens what a particular age are we

00:31:36.040 looking at sort of 14 around that age but isn't it also quite homophobic as well because a lot

00:31:42.700 of people are questioning their gender isn't it a lot of the times that they're finding out their

00:31:47.340 sexuality and realizing they're attracted to the same sex well it's gay conversion therapy isn't

00:31:52.100 it you you get your gender non-conforming lesbian and you transition her into a straight man but

00:32:01.120 there's there's a big take up now of just girls opting out of womanhood not not all of them are

00:32:06.860 lesbian um and they're just opting out of womanhood because i wouldn't want to be a

00:32:11.560 teenage girl now in a porn sort of adult uh society in which we live where you've got

00:32:19.000 trafficked 15 year olds being found on porn hub you know who incidentally porn hub are the um

00:32:25.780 mind geek who uh they uh mind geek own porn hub and they were going to be in charge of protecting

00:32:31.640 children from accessing porn it's very strange that they haven't managed to do it

00:32:37.500 who knew but uh but certainly with effeminate boys i think that is the main impetus for people

00:32:46.100 you know you can you can erase away the gay with a bit of transition and saying he was a girl all

00:32:51.420 along. And transition rates have started to rocket and also do rates of children see themselves as

00:32:57.820 being a different gender? Well, I mean, you can feed a society as well. I'm sure you both know

00:33:05.720 you can feed a society anything if you have the right tools and the narrative. So we've got CBBC

00:33:11.640 covered. I am Leo, which is a girl transitioning. She got a new passport at 16 with the male sex on

00:33:19.340 it. You know, just think, where's that going to go if loads of girls do it? And then say they

00:33:25.200 travel to China or Russia or anywhere. And they say, we want to search you. We think you've got

00:33:32.480 something on you. And then they get this 16 year old girl goes in a room with a load of men because

00:33:37.520 she's male on her passport. It's absolutely bonkers. And once you socially transition

00:33:42.460 these children, then they almost have no choice into the puberty blockers. Because if you're

00:33:48.680 getting this high praise as a parent and a child of oh you're so great oh you're so brave or you

00:33:55.660 must love your son so daughter son so much in order to do this and the child's getting loads

00:34:01.460 of praise and all this focus and attention and you're going to counseling and you're tiptoeing

00:34:06.140 around and the child's managed to make mummy and daddy call them by a different name and use a

00:34:10.740 different pronoun and the school has to do it and you become this king in your own life

00:34:15.060 why are you going to give that up and when are you going to give it up like when are you going

00:34:19.720 to have the the consciousness to be able to say actually this isn't right I really don't feel like

00:34:25.480 a girl anymore I think I'm a boy by that point you know have you taken puberty blockers have you

00:34:31.340 totally disrupted your body um you know it's it's insane and doctors won't talk about it like every

00:34:38.020 place you go to where you think well stop there they're not going to go along with that that's

00:34:43.240 insane. The doctors are going along with it. The GPs are too frightened to speak up. Psychologists,

00:34:48.480 the Tavistock and Portman, which is the sort of gender identity specialists. And everywhere you

00:34:55.920 go, the BBC feed it to kids. There's a story on CBeebies of this definite autogynophile man who

00:35:05.500 transitioned. I can't remember what his name was. Oh, Charlotte or something. It was like

00:35:10.500 my dad, Charlotte, it was a stunning and brave family. And the dad, who must have been about

00:35:16.960 five, 10, runs in the room like giggling and his kids and his wife are sitting on the sofa

00:35:25.360 and he jumps on them like that because obviously that's all how all women behave in their lives.

00:35:31.820 And then we had another one at a local school and he was the only person that walked his

00:35:37.140 daughter to school. She must have been 13 or 14, holding hands. And I felt that was very much part

00:35:43.840 of his whole need to be seen as a mother. So he'd missed out on those years when he held his

00:35:50.220 daughter's hand going to school. So he made her do it and he'd pick her up at lunchtime.

00:35:54.760 I can't imagine how distressing that was for her. But the children thing, I have no idea how anyone

00:36:02.420 with good conscience goes to work and contributes to this idiocy and wholesale abuse of children.

00:36:10.600 Let me try again from maybe, well, it's going to be the same angle pretty much, but

00:36:14.440 there are people, this is my opinion, and you tell me where you're at on it, right?

00:36:21.200 I suspect that there are people who do have gender dysphoria, right? And they may be a

00:36:28.040 percentage of the total number of people who say that they're trans, right? And for those people,

00:36:34.740 they, again, my opinion, reassignment is helpful to them as an individual, right? So isn't it

00:36:43.200 really much more about kind of there's a group of people who need that, and then there's a lot

00:36:48.520 of people who may be kind of being encouraged into that by society that's now obsessed with

00:36:54.160 this stuff. So isn't the challenge here is kind of differentiated between the two rather than

00:37:00.140 taking what I would say is a more extreme position, which is these are all people pretending to be

00:37:04.480 the other sex. Look, we have all types of dysphoria. We have people that don't feel

00:37:10.280 they should have two legs. We have people that think they should be blind. We have people that

00:37:14.300 think that they're fat when they're sort of five and a half stone. We don't go along with those

00:37:19.320 things and say that it'd be good for you to starve to death, or it'd be good for you to become a

00:37:25.040 medical patient, or be blind. And I would say with gender dysphoria, it's kind of that's totally

00:37:34.360 separate to whether or not you should be in women's spaces. But children, A, don't have the

00:37:40.180 capacity to understand the ramifications of what their choices are. So I think, and I think our

00:37:46.100 brain develops to adulthood until we're sort of in our mid-twenties. So I think you should,

00:37:50.540 and then it's up to you. Do you know what? If a man wants to have fake breasts and invert his

00:37:56.540 penis and cut his testicles off and call himself Sheila, it's not really any of my concern as long

00:38:02.080 as he doesn't infringe upon my rights and my spaces. And my rights would be to go into a

00:38:06.560 female-only space and there to only be women in it. So it's not really any of my business. It

00:38:11.220 doesn't affect me. It doesn't particularly offend me. As long as I'm not forced to go along with

00:38:17.020 that belief, it doesn't really matter. So, and the pretending, how are you ever going to know

00:38:23.740 whether somebody who is well-versed or somebody has a fetish or somebody is generally fighting

00:38:29.860 every day to get through it? I don't know if you genuinely know the difference between those two

00:38:34.940 people or even if it matters. It can't be right that at 18, a girl in this country can go to a

00:38:43.060 private surgeon, three months later have a breast chopped off and become a medical patient for the

00:38:47.580 rest of her life and take testosterone, which then causes vaginal atrophy, which is like the

00:38:53.220 menopause. And then they often have to have hysterectomies in their early 20s, which result

00:39:00.200 in higher risk of Alzheimer's, higher risk of cancer, higher risk of osteoporosis, you know,

00:39:05.760 proper serious. We haven't even seen what the outcome of this will be for loads of these people.

00:39:11.900 But there are some people, Posey, that I know personally, right, whose lives are horrible.

00:39:18.060 They don't, you wouldn't wish their lives on anyone. Being born in this way and feeling like

00:39:23.800 you're in the wrong body. And, you know, we know that the suicide rate is crazy for people who are

00:39:30.040 who've got this and a lot of them are depressed. It's a very difficult thing to be dealing with.

00:39:38.360 Surely for some of them who have a genuine case of gender dysphoria, they need all the help they

00:39:44.540 can get, surely? They do. And suicide rates don't change after transition. So that would suggest

00:39:52.940 that these surgeries don't help. Long-term therapy would help. Really getting to the root

00:39:59.860 of what is it about your body that, you know,

00:40:03.620 being born in the wrong body is such a ridiculous concept

00:40:06.560 because your body is the thing that you're born in.

00:40:09.920 You know, that is what makes you, that is you, your body.

00:40:13.460 They can't be separated.

00:40:14.500 Well, unless their argument is that you have a male,

00:40:18.600 there is a male brain and a female brain.

00:40:20.960 And, you know, from scientists that we've spoken to,

00:40:23.260 you know, if you look at someone's brain,

00:40:24.560 you can predict with about 80% accuracy what sex they are

00:40:28.520 just by looking at their brain.

00:40:29.860 Yeah, but that would be on size, and women have a slightly more gray matter.

00:40:33.640 That's what Pinker would argue.

00:40:35.540 Sure.

00:40:36.580 But my point is, there is such a thing as the male brain, broadly speaking.

00:40:40.960 You're looking at me like you don't agree, but let me lay this out, and then you tell me what you think.

00:40:46.220 There's such a thing as the male brain, such a thing as the female brain.

00:40:49.000 Therefore, theoretically, based on that, it's possible for someone to be born in a female body with a male brain,

00:40:54.540 which tells them that their body should be male, right?

00:40:58.260 No, I think that's a crazy idea.

00:41:02.520 Why?

00:41:02.720 Where's the bit that's female?

00:41:06.120 How does that work?

00:41:07.800 That the brain is in the wrong...

00:41:09.580 Like, what, are you talking physically?

00:41:11.520 There's a physical aspect of a brain that makes it female?

00:41:14.540 Well, it's a brain that tells that person that they are male

00:41:18.680 and they happen to have a female body.

00:41:21.580 But there'll be a brain that tells people all sorts of things that aren't true.

00:41:25.980 It doesn't mean that you would go along with it.

00:41:30.400 And can someone really articulate that they are definitely female

00:41:33.980 if they don't have a female body?

00:41:35.440 How would they know?

00:41:36.600 How would they know what it feels like to be a female if they're not one?

00:41:40.480 I suppose what they would say is that it's just a feeling that they've had

00:41:44.320 and that they have always had.

00:41:46.100 And this sense of discomfort of being, of wearing,

00:41:50.160 being and identifying as a man.

00:41:52.160 but then what but what is that like identifying as a all these terms that they're great but they

00:42:01.520 don't mean anything what does identifying as a man mean does that mean that they look at their

00:42:05.000 penis and they think that's definitely not mine yes yeah so that would be a body dysphoria that

00:42:10.240 would be an appendage dysphoria that would be a penis dysphoria that wouldn't necessarily

00:42:14.240 just because you reject a penis or think that you should have a different body it doesn't mean that

00:42:18.560 your brain is right or that there aren't other psychological behavioral reasons as to why that

00:42:26.340 happens. Like autogynophilia can happen, or any fetish rather, can happen with experiences in

00:42:33.400 very small children. They sort of set it. I think Grayson Perry talks about it and he reckons that

00:42:38.980 this generation of children are going to have fetishes about phones because that's all their

00:42:43.640 mothers do is just look at mobile phones so those things can embed in a person more often with men

00:42:50.480 and the whole dysphoria thing is is a misnomer anyway because where are the heterosexual women

00:42:55.420 coming out as men in their 40s the mothers who are coming out as men because there's plenty of

00:43:02.680 men that are coming out apparently as women that have known all their lives and suddenly revise

00:43:07.680 their entire lives to support that narrative but there are no women doing it and i'm that's

00:43:16.220 that's an interesting point yeah that i've not heard before yeah no absolutely and because we

00:43:21.120 don't we talk a lot about male to female transitions but never so much the the debate

00:43:28.240 is never as contentious on the other side why is that is it mainly to do with safe spaces

00:43:33.020 Is it also to do with the sport element as well, where a lot of female athletes, in particular Sharon Davis, are getting incredibly angry?

00:43:40.800 I can't blame them, can you?

00:43:42.680 There's trans men, so women that call themselves men, they are not going to threaten a man in a boxing ring, are they?

00:43:49.440 They're not going to cause, there's a mixed martial arts fighter in America.

00:43:55.800 Alan Fox.

00:43:56.540 Yeah.

00:43:57.240 I mean, that's just, it's insane.

00:44:00.280 We're totally with you on that one.

00:44:01.520 i mean people should trans women should not be competing in female sports i mean if if you if

00:44:11.540 you don't think that you're a fucking idiot no offense to fucking idiots that is a crazy idea

00:44:16.320 the idea that people should be physically in combat or even competing with with natural born

00:44:23.180 women it's insane yeah would you explain why it's insane because i mean there are people out there

00:44:28.880 It's not fucking hard, mate.

00:44:31.020 Men and women are different.

00:44:32.360 Men are bigger, stronger, faster.

00:44:33.800 They've got bigger hearts.

00:44:36.140 They're less likely to be injured.

00:44:38.780 These are basic biological facts, are they not?

00:44:41.620 Well, yeah.

00:44:42.200 This is where the pronoun, thin end of the wedge thing, comes in.

00:44:45.840 Okay.

00:44:46.020 So if we don't use female language for men, if we call trans women men and we said,

00:44:53.780 that man is going to win the cycling race, the women's cycling race, everyone would go, no.

00:44:58.100 But because that man is referred to as a trans woman and then now a woman in the press, then people have to have these conversations, which are ludicrous, because if we just said men and women, he and she, there's none of this confusion.

00:45:14.340 We're all very clear about what we're talking about.

00:45:16.440 Rachel Rees McKinnon calls himself Rachel McKinnon.

00:45:20.040 He's a man, full stop.

00:45:22.640 You know, when people go, why? Well, the lungs, the muscle fibers, the no, because he's a man.

00:45:29.660 It's we sort of get into these cul-de-sacs of like you've used the instance.

00:45:34.020 And I think India is the one that introduced you to the the idea that that happens in utero.

00:45:39.000 This sort of mix up of whatever it is, hormones or hormone washes.

00:45:44.940 I think he said it was absolute nonsense.

00:45:47.920 but that's because we are trying to explain things that are so nonsensical and then we're

00:45:53.860 trying to put sort of intelligent hats on and explain why it's true why it's not true

00:45:58.460 they're just men that's it is there no compromise pose is there no middle ground where we can say

00:46:05.220 okay fine they're not women let's say what they are is trans women and we create a separate

00:46:11.340 category so that those people can get the comfort that they need they can have their own pronouns

00:46:17.500 used, but for the purposes of, let's say, sport and other fields, they're not treated exactly as

00:46:26.800 women in that sense. But broadly speaking, we give them the comfort that they need to feel

00:46:31.660 good about themselves. So in order to compromise, I will have to change my language to something

00:46:37.060 that I know isn't true. But no, I'm not saying you have to say they're a woman. I'm saying you

00:46:42.160 have to say they're trans women for example it's a new category let's say no why i just don't i i

00:46:49.720 think it's it's really bloody offensive to think that you can just stick on some clothes and and

00:46:57.440 demand that i change the way i think because i i don't think that i trans women is a nonsense term

00:47:05.760 woman it doesn't apply to those but you don't think there's a difference between me and me

00:47:12.140 having cut off my penis and replaced it with an artificial vagina and artificial breasts is that

00:47:17.780 not a different person and a different type of person you're probably a troubled human if you

00:47:21.700 do that but i don't think that makes you a different category of human no and what a lot

00:47:28.180 of women uh in particular women that i know who are very close to me get incensed and enraged by

00:47:34.720 the term cis cis woman why is that so contentious amongst women because it's women that have to

00:47:41.580 change all our bloody language. We're uterus havers. I think in Ireland now, you're pregnant

00:47:45.900 people. I mean, Jesus Christ. I'm a woman. That should be enough, right? But it's not enough

00:47:52.760 anymore because we have trans women. And so now apparently we have to have a prefix. This is why

00:47:57.620 all the little tiny kind of placating language, right? All the things that are supposed to be

00:48:03.240 nice and polite and kind, why they're so fucking dangerous? Because it means trans women. And I

00:48:10.180 think the Green Party called us non-trans, called women, I mean, non-trans women. I mean,

00:48:16.300 fuck off. It's, no.

00:48:18.980 And I think what I hear a lot is something Francis and I have talked about and he just

00:48:22.320 brought it up, which is women are angry about this shit.

00:48:25.240 Yeah, we are.

00:48:25.800 Yeah. I wouldn't use the word angry, I'd use vitriolic, when sometimes, you know, you're

00:48:30.520 having, you know, the discussion over dinner and you're, you know, so the trans issue is

00:48:34.940 raised and as a man you sort of blindly stumble obliviously into this minefield and then you see

00:48:41.860 women who from every political viewpoint come out and when they feel it's safe they're not happy

00:48:49.760 no well it it's it's a proper um i used to read the bunty as a little girl a little comic

00:48:55.940 and it was called if you can't beat them join them and i really do feel that's what

00:49:00.380 this whole trans stuff is they've sort of it's they've come into the women's movements and it's

00:49:07.540 very interesting because a lot of these men uh so when the women's equality party started like

00:49:12.820 like that there were trans women in it right and then they can't have a position that tries to

00:49:19.520 protect women's spaces because there's already someone there with a bleeding heart telling them

00:49:24.400 how hard it is for them to pretend to be a woman all day long.

00:49:28.360 Now, I don't think men really get,

00:49:32.800 and I can't blame you because you have another experience,

00:49:34.880 and I don't know what it's really like to be a man.

00:49:36.820 It's brilliant.

00:49:37.400 It's fucking great.

00:49:38.760 Sorry.

00:49:42.920 As a great comedian friend of ours, as a joke,

00:49:47.320 he says, better pay fewer feelings.

00:49:49.660 It's true.

00:49:51.040 But as soon as you hit puberty as a girl,

00:49:53.920 and you know this is global you become kind of public property and i've been gulped at probably

00:50:01.080 not so much these days but i've um you know 40 does that yeah i'd go for you any day but i'll

00:50:06.960 thank but as soon as as soon as you sort of hit a particular age you get male attention

00:50:13.920 and i think that's why that's an interesting thing when men start dressing as women and they

00:50:20.840 get comments that they get so hurt and injured and uh you know rather aghast by all but we've

00:50:28.040 had training in this as women from the very moment that we have breasts basically that's

00:50:33.080 what it comes down you know that's how much of a um that's how i think many that's why men are

00:50:39.100 more fooled by men that dress as women because men just see makeup hair tits and that's a woman

00:50:47.080 whereas i think um i think most men can't spot uh a man dressed as a woman as much as a woman

00:50:55.700 let me ask you this because i agree with a lot of what you're saying not with everything but

00:51:00.000 with a lot of what you're saying and whenever i have this conversation with people i always have

00:51:03.860 this thought in the back of my mind which is would we not have been having the same conversation

00:51:09.060 about gay people 30 years ago it's just in their head what they really need is therapy

00:51:14.760 Are they just thinking it?

00:51:16.220 It's a mental disorder, whatever.

00:51:18.380 You didn't use those words.

00:51:19.580 No.

00:51:19.880 You didn't, and I'm not putting that in your mouth.

00:51:21.720 But it's some kind of thing in their head,

00:51:25.800 and what we need to do is help them to be normal.

00:51:28.660 It's a good argument.

00:51:30.340 Thank you.

00:51:31.760 It's one that the trans activists use a lot.

00:51:35.460 And I think that the way we've dealt with trans activism

00:51:39.000 and transgenderism generally is a backlash

00:51:42.160 to how terribly badly we dealt with homophobia and homosexuality.

00:51:47.980 But we didn't talk to children about being gay

00:51:54.380 before their sexuality happened.

00:51:58.300 And gay men never stood in a room and said,

00:52:01.300 you must call me straight.

00:52:03.540 And that's the difference.

00:52:05.500 The whole trans thing is demanding something of other people

00:52:09.120 that isn't just accept me, it's making demands that goes beyond accept me. It's I demand that

00:52:17.700 you see me the way I see myself. And gay rights never did that. Gay rights was about I want to

00:52:24.560 live my life and I want to operate fully in society without getting the shit kicked out of

00:52:29.320 me when I walked down the road and loads of abuse. And I think if trans activism had done that

00:52:34.940 and said, look, you know, it's we get attacked. We want the same rights as everybody else,

00:52:42.480 which they already have. Then I don't think we'd have this, the wall. And the interesting thing is,

00:52:50.400 it's a lot of lesbians that are speaking up against transgenderism, because they have

00:52:54.900 absolutely their community has been annihilated. Not only are there very young lesbians being

00:53:00.260 transitioned, but also all lesbian spaces are occupied by men. And so they don't really exist.

00:53:07.540 And it's a lot of liberal, left-leaning liberal women that are going, no, we're not going to have

00:53:13.840 this. You're not going to do this. You're not going to make women move over for men in our

00:53:17.960 own space. And, you know, I think there's a chap on Twitter that basically said, do people honestly

00:53:24.300 think that all these liberal live and let live people just suddenly got up one day and was like,

00:53:28.180 actually, I'm going to be a raging bigot.

00:53:29.880 I'm just going to pick one issue

00:53:32.580 and I'm just going to be an absolute arsehole about it.

00:53:35.200 And I've totally switched and now I'm a Nazi.

00:53:37.840 No.

00:53:38.960 And you talk about the thin end of the wedge.

00:53:41.440 I mean, a good example of what you're talking about

00:53:43.560 with the thick end of the wedge

00:53:44.720 is a case of Karen White in prison,

00:53:47.060 which is just an awful case

00:53:49.300 and just shows how, in many ways, we've lost our mind.

00:53:53.120 Well, I think Jeremy Vine was on the radio

00:53:55.980 and he said something like,

00:53:56.920 Karen White

00:53:58.680 raped someone

00:53:59.600 with her penis

00:54:00.740 you know

00:54:01.760 and that goes

00:54:02.260 again

00:54:03.320 it's this pronoun thing

00:54:04.940 and why doesn't

00:54:06.300 if Karen White

00:54:07.420 if it's

00:54:07.920 sorry to interrupt

00:54:08.580 if you could just explain

00:54:10.320 the case of Karen White

00:54:11.280 to people who might not be

00:54:12.380 because we get a lot of

00:54:13.820 America's views

00:54:14.620 all around the world

00:54:15.540 so Karen White

00:54:17.320 was a convicted rapist

00:54:18.460 that then got put

00:54:19.180 in a women's prison

00:54:19.920 and then

00:54:20.800 surprisingly

00:54:21.900 still had a penis

00:54:22.680 and surprisingly

00:54:24.460 then went on

00:54:25.420 to sexually assault women

00:54:26.520 And he's not the only one. And they're overrepresented in sexual offenders, trans. So for a percentage of the population, say it's like 0.1% in prison, they are overrepresented. I think about 40% of prisoners who identify as trans are sexual offenders.

00:54:46.500 Yes. So that's when and, you know, there could be twofold. It could be one that it's a

00:54:52.140 paraphilia, which often you have more than one. So if you've got a fetish about dressing as a

00:54:58.020 woman, you've also got a fetish, maybe paedophilia or other sorts of sexual fetishes.

00:55:05.980 That's well documented by Sheila Jeffries, who's a radical feminist, brilliant writer.

00:55:11.720 I haven't read enough. And then you have, you also have the case of why wouldn't you say that

00:55:18.640 you're a woman? If you're a sexual predator and you go to prison, why wouldn't you say you're a

00:55:23.520 woman? And the police in this country, if you rape someone and you get arrested and you tell them

00:55:29.120 you're a woman, that gets recorded as a crime committed by a woman. I read it in the paper

00:55:33.840 about that today. There was a case going on right now. By the time this interview goes out, it will

00:55:37.680 be a few weeks in the past you mentioned we've got very little time so i'm going to ask you one

00:55:41.940 question and we'll do the last question okay you mentioned radical feminism and this is i i know i

00:55:47.200 feel like i've played the bad cop throughout this interview and this is another question very easily

00:55:51.040 i quite enjoy it actually uh but you've been uh you've been great sport of dealing with it

00:55:57.280 is that i mean i have to say as a man who has been repeatedly told that as a man i'm not allowed

00:56:03.680 to have certain opinions

00:56:04.800 that I don't know

00:56:06.640 what I'm talking about

00:56:07.460 simply because I have a penis.

00:56:09.760 I have a little bit

00:56:10.720 of schadenfreude about this.

00:56:11.880 I really do.

00:56:12.900 Because I look at feminists

00:56:14.080 being told to shut up

00:56:15.180 because they don't know

00:56:16.000 what they're talking about

00:56:16.960 because they haven't had

00:56:17.880 a certain lived experience.

00:56:18.980 And I go,

00:56:19.680 you guys fucking created this.

00:56:21.320 Yeah.

00:56:21.640 And now it's being used against you.

00:56:23.120 Enjoy.

00:56:24.980 Am I right about that?

00:56:26.060 Am I wrong about that?

00:56:26.800 Well, there's loads of MRAs

00:56:27.960 that think the same as you.

00:56:28.840 Whoa, hold on a second.

00:56:30.880 But no, I'm not saying you're one.

00:56:32.400 But there are.

00:56:33.080 There are.

00:56:33.480 But the biggest sort of ha-ha-ha-ha, this is what you deserve.

00:56:38.280 You brought it on yourself.

00:56:39.080 I don't mean it like that.

00:56:40.140 No, I know you don't.

00:56:41.940 He's on an all-carnivore diet.

00:56:45.000 Calm, Jordan.

00:56:46.160 No, no, no, no, no.

00:56:47.340 I eat greens as well then.

00:56:48.500 I love greens.

00:56:49.120 I totally have sympathy with that.

00:56:51.260 I absolutely do.

00:56:52.360 And sometimes I listen.

00:56:53.260 I'm not a feminist anymore because, well...

00:56:55.860 Why don't you believe in women's equality, Posey?

00:56:58.520 I've met far too many fucking women, that's why.

00:57:00.860 in this movement it's uh it's it's awful it's properly awful the the the way women behave

00:57:09.640 in their own movement is shocking uh i don't think men do it i don't know what it is i've

00:57:15.540 thought about it often uh but i but in my life uh the people that have been the most awful to me

00:57:22.160 are women uh and also i've i just i sometimes hear identity politics i don't like lurking at

00:57:30.020 the back of my head when i read some of the stuff when people go as a woman as a feminist as a

00:57:34.820 mother as a and i'm thinking well that's all the stuff we're fighting against so um for me when i

00:57:41.420 when i discovered that i was on the wrong side of the left when it came to this i had like an

00:57:46.440 awakening um and some people make all that a certain sort of pill i'm not going to go along

00:57:52.240 with that but i had a bit of an awakening where you suddenly thought oh okay so i've always thought

00:57:58.380 that why do i think that let me explore why i think that why do i why do i have that point of

00:58:02.840 view is there any truth to it have i really thought about this or is it something i'm supposed to

00:58:06.880 believe and the whole feminist thing um you know all men are potential rapists and you're like

00:58:13.660 and it's i sort of said to someone they think what what or um 90 of women have been a victim

00:58:21.200 of sexual assault or all these ridiculous sort of things and and there's a little bit of me

00:58:27.240 sometimes it thinks, well, we have invited it. We have sort of, you know, we've had this role of,

00:58:33.900 oh, we're so terribly oppressed and victim and victim and victim. And then these men want a

00:58:39.360 piece of it. And that would all be true if it weren't for the fact that it's men doing it.

00:58:47.060 So the invasion of women's spaces, whilst we may have given language, perhaps, it's men that are

00:58:54.020 doing it. So is it a woman's fault if a man then tries to invade a woman's space? No, it's not.

00:59:00.640 Even if we provided the language and opened the door, it's still not our fault if he chooses to

00:59:05.680 walk in. Well, if you've learned anything from this episode, it's that I'm a men's rights activist.

00:59:14.380 Or is this otherwise known? Russian. We've run out of time. So we've got one more question for

00:59:19.940 And the last question is always the same for all our guests,

00:59:23.080 which is what is the one thing that we're not talking about as a society

00:59:26.340 that we really should be talking about?

00:59:28.720 It's a big one.

00:59:31.620 It's paedophilia and the erosion of safeguarding towards children.

00:59:37.640 Glad to end on a soft note.

00:59:39.220 We're not fucking leaving it there.

00:59:41.140 Tell us a little bit of what you actually mean by that.

00:59:44.460 I think there is, along with this trans wave,

00:59:49.260 And I'm not going to conflate the two because that's not remotely what I'm saying.

00:59:53.180 However, if I was a paedophile and I was watching with glee at the severance of family control and autonomy like in the schools in Birmingham and what our children, primary school age children are being taught.

01:00:05.260 The fact that if you're a man, you can go away with the girl guides now and they don't have to tell your parents, the parents of the children.

01:00:10.980 and the sex sort of the way that we talk about sex in schools and then pornography and the way

01:00:19.140 that that's easily accessible for children and it all just it's really uncomfortable i feel like

01:00:24.580 i'm wearing some sort of foil hat and should be on the david ike show instead of this very sensible

01:00:28.640 and reasonable show but it does feel that there's some really uncomfortable things happening with

01:00:34.360 the erosion of boundaries well there you go yeah uh ending on a happy note as we usually do no no

01:00:41.260 it's great but this is why we give our guests that opportunity to say whatever it is that they think

01:00:45.780 um if people want to follow you and what you do do they go to the mumsnet feminist forum

01:00:51.040 no i'm banned from mumsnet are you yeah because i said that i wouldn't use the pronoun they

01:00:55.860 right so i'm banned forever from that you can't find me on twitter because i'm banned from

01:00:59.840 twitter so i'm the i'm posy parker on uh facebook and i run a website called standing for women.com

01:01:07.540 where you can buy t-shirts and the like fantastic uh do that and as always follow us at trigger pod

01:01:13.220 we will see you again in a week's time with another great episode take care see you next week guys

01:01:29.840 We'll be right back.

01:01:59.840 Wells Theater. Get tickets at

TRIGGERnometry - November 17, 2019

Posie Parker：＂Trans Women Aren't Women＂

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