TRIGGERnometry - October 04, 2021


Posie Parker: Trans Women Aren't Women - Part 2


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 8 minutes

Words per minute

167.27817

Word count

11,474

Sentence count

435

Harmful content

Misogyny

100

sentences flagged

Toxicity

154

sentences flagged

Hate speech

60

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Posey Parker holds the record for the most number of views of any of our previous interviews with a single person, and she's very happy about it. She's a women's rights campaigner, and the first time we had her on, we were talking about the trans issue.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.320 Hey guys, as some of you know, we have just terminated our advertising contract with Surfshark.
00:00:06.160 Yes, we were made aware that they stopped advertising with the Post Millennial
00:00:09.780 because of some false allegations about their editor and our former guest, Andy Ngo.
00:00:15.080 As you know, as a team, we have made clear our support for free speech
00:00:19.080 and we will never advertise businesses that bow to the mob. It's just not going to happen here.
00:00:24.040 One of the problems with cancel culture is that if we rely on a small number of advertisers
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00:00:36.420 between sticking to our principles and delivering the great content that all of you enjoy.
00:00:41.100 We can't be in that position. We can't. We'll end up self-censoring,
00:00:45.760 not interviewing certain people because we're afraid of the consequences
00:00:48.920 and we'll end up shying away from the really important conversations
00:00:52.400 about difficult subjects that we have here.
00:00:54.520 So we started Trigonometry three and a half years ago with no help from anyone,
00:00:58.900 just two broke comedians who thought someone had to have honest conversations
00:01:03.000 about subjects that mainstream media ignores.
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00:01:53.320 and we'll take you out for a meal, which is always my favourite part.
00:01:56.960 Do you feel vindicated?
00:01:59.600 I feel like a prophet.
00:02:08.060 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry.
00:02:10.900 I'm Francis Foster.
00:02:12.260 I'm Constantine Kissin.
00:02:13.360 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.
00:02:18.360 I think it might be pretty fascinating and honest today because we have a returning guest.
00:02:23.500 It's Kelly J. Keene, formerly known as Posey Parker,
00:02:25.940 who holds the record for the most number of views of any of our previous interviews.
00:02:29.920 She's very happy about it.
00:02:31.040 Kelly, welcome back.
00:02:32.120 Thanks very much.
00:02:33.300 Well, I mentioned our previous interview.
00:02:35.900 You're obviously a women's rights campaigner. 0.91
00:02:37.360 And the first time we had you on, we were talking about the trans issue.
00:02:41.460 This would have been at least two years ago.
00:02:44.260 And just to set the context for everybody, and you won't know this,
00:02:46.920 but I do remember when you walked out,
00:02:49.320 the interview is titled Trans Women Aren't Women.
00:02:53.240 When you walked out, Francis and I looked at each other and went, 0.99
00:02:55.940 okay, and then we sort of, we had to put our testicles back on 0.93
00:03:02.000 to actually put the interview out.
00:03:03.740 Because at the time, for two comedians who were still operating in the comedy industry,
00:03:08.820 very progressive, we were recording it above a comedy club
00:03:12.660 where we were sort of operating on the goodwill of the people there.
00:03:16.120 That was terrifying.
00:03:17.600 It was borderline suicidal.
00:03:19.340 Yeah.
00:03:19.720 That conversation was absolutely terrifying.
00:03:22.400 And I think, I want to get your take on it,
00:03:24.620 but I think that one of the reasons it has done as well as it has
00:03:27.440 is it's two people who are genuinely trying to investigate the issue.
00:03:31.400 They're possibly putting forward arguments,
00:03:33.580 some of which are well thought out and some less so perhaps,
00:03:36.320 just pure ignorance.
00:03:38.600 And someone is pushing back with facts, with arguments, with logic,
00:03:42.460 without being upset, without getting angry.
00:03:44.580 There's a bit of humor involved.
00:03:45.840 Everybody has a good time.
00:03:46.960 That sort of was the vibe of it.
00:03:48.700 What was, first of all, your feeling when you walked out of that conversation?
00:03:54.620 Um, I thought it was good.
00:03:56.900 I quite like the opportunity to answer an argument and have a debate.
00:04:03.140 It's quite, it's not as productive for anybody, I don't think.
00:04:06.600 If everyone goes, oh yeah, I agree, yeah, I agree.
00:04:08.680 Oh, we all agree.
00:04:09.420 Isn't that great?
00:04:10.080 And it's much more entertaining for everybody else, isn't it?
00:04:13.660 But I think in order to really present a good argument,
00:04:18.680 you need somebody that doesn't necessarily agree with you.
00:04:22.820 And so I absolutely loved it.
00:04:24.580 Yeah, it was great, wasn't it?
00:04:26.160 And, you know, one of the reasons that we wanted to get you back now,
00:04:29.540 because we've covered the trans issue, we feel like, to death. 0.77
00:04:32.440 And I think most of our audience, and us included,
00:04:35.620 now kind of know where we stand on it.
00:04:37.700 And that's partly, let's be honest, thanks to you,
00:04:39.840 because you did open our eyes to a lot of stuff.
00:04:42.220 And one of the things that you were saying at the time,
00:04:44.760 I'm not sure how persuaded we were by it at that time,
00:04:47.960 was the slippery slope fallacy isn't always a fallacy.
00:04:51.740 And if you allow certain things to happen,
00:04:54.040 well, guess what?
00:04:55.100 Two years later, you might have a party conference
00:04:57.360 of a major political party in this country,
00:04:59.440 where, you know, Ed Davey, the leader of the Lib Dems,
00:05:02.560 Keir Starmer, the leader of the Labour Party.
00:05:05.380 Now, essentially, they don't...
00:05:07.940 Today, Keir Starmer is saying we need a James Bond to be a woman.
00:05:12.040 But two days earlier, he couldn't even define what a woman was.
00:05:15.440 That's where we are.
00:05:16.920 So do you feel vindicated?
00:05:20.200 I feel like a prophet.
00:05:23.380 Yeah, I do.
00:05:24.660 I did know that if you can't name what a woman is, 1.00
00:05:29.040 you can't really say anything about us,
00:05:31.960 you can't defend our rights,
00:05:33.760 you can't defend our spaces,
00:05:35.620 a female space is no longer a female space 1.00
00:05:37.860 if there's a man in it.
00:05:39.540 So I knew this was coming.
00:05:42.440 I kind of hoped it wasn't.
00:05:44.680 But I think the writings on the wall
00:05:47.560 from everybody I know
00:05:49.540 who's got anything to do with the Labour Party,
00:05:52.020 and let's not forget that the Tories are in charge
00:05:54.060 and they're not doing very great things either.
00:05:56.480 The Liberal Democrats are...
00:05:58.960 I mean, if it wasn't such a serious issue,
00:06:02.680 it's hilarious.
00:06:03.980 I mean, they're just proper way out there.
00:06:07.600 Way out there.
00:06:08.240 And have we come to this point?
00:06:10.060 How have we come to the point
00:06:11.420 where on a major political show,
00:06:14.320 Keir Starmer,
00:06:15.440 when asked what a woman is 0.54
00:06:17.020 and do women have cervixes, 1.00
00:06:19.200 essentially failed a year five biology question?
00:06:23.120 I don't know.
00:06:25.800 There must be such a powerful minority 1.00
00:06:29.800 in the Labour Party
00:06:30.920 that he just can't speak 0.99
00:06:32.680 because it's too ridiculous 0.98
00:06:35.200 to think that there's any rational 0.74
00:06:37.220 kind of lead up to that.
00:06:39.760 Emily Thornberry,
00:06:40.860 she was asked the same question
00:06:42.380 and she said that her nephew is trans
00:06:45.140 and he has a cervix.
00:06:47.100 Now, I don't agree with her at all. 0.99
00:06:48.800 I think that's a ridiculous thing to say. 0.58
00:06:50.600 But at least there is...
00:06:52.620 You can understand if you've got a niece,
00:06:55.560 I would say a niece,
00:06:56.780 who identifies as trans
00:06:58.520 and you might not want to really offend her.
00:07:01.920 So that's a little bit more understandable.
00:07:04.440 But David Lammy thinks that trans women,
00:07:08.140 men, also have a cervix,
00:07:10.500 that when you have SRS,
00:07:12.580 you end up with a cervix.
00:07:15.480 I mean, it's like...
00:07:17.600 All I can think when I see David Lammy
00:07:19.500 is him saying there are no police here
00:07:20.960 with a police officer behind him.
00:07:24.780 It feels like neighbourhood policing has vanished.
00:07:28.220 It's not around you.
00:07:30.140 We haven't seen a police while I've been here
00:07:32.020 and I've been here for a little while now.
00:07:36.240 That's just barmy. 0.99
00:07:38.180 And it must be these very, very powerful activists.
00:07:42.280 But surely they can't have that power
00:07:44.200 or do you think they're just worried
00:07:45.460 about being cancelled, smeared, etc, etc?
00:07:48.980 Well, I think they must have power.
00:07:50.640 I think power is the only thing
00:07:52.200 that could persuade normal, rational humans 0.98
00:07:56.600 to say such ridiculous things. 0.80
00:07:59.820 It can only be power 0.98
00:08:02.220 to force people into newspeak.
00:08:06.080 Like, I don't...
00:08:08.020 It's not rational, is it?
00:08:09.280 There's no truth.
00:08:10.380 It's not factual.
00:08:11.940 So it can only be sort of levers of power.
00:08:15.240 Well, it's become a bit of a purity test.
00:08:17.860 And the first time we were having that conversation,
00:08:20.560 I think the sort of tension that was in the air
00:08:23.520 was because we are two people
00:08:25.440 who are genuinely intellectually curious
00:08:27.280 and try to be honest.
00:08:29.260 But also that pressure from the industry
00:08:31.920 we were operating within at that point of time
00:08:34.660 was coming into conflict.
00:08:36.600 And I think a lot of people find themselves
00:08:38.220 in that position,
00:08:39.740 including in the Labour Party,
00:08:41.060 where on the one hand,
00:08:42.060 you do want to be honest
00:08:43.000 and also you want to be compassionate.
00:08:45.200 That was the other thing
00:08:45.960 that was certainly motivating me
00:08:47.120 and it motivates me to this day.
00:08:48.280 I don't want to upset people
00:08:49.840 who do not have an easy life.
00:08:51.980 They don't, right?
00:08:53.140 For the sake of some kind of argument.
00:08:55.320 But at the same time,
00:08:56.120 I think we're seeing now
00:08:57.820 that when people pretend
00:09:00.280 to not know the things that they know,
00:09:02.380 it has consequences in every area,
00:09:04.360 whether that's, you know,
00:09:05.560 there's a new transgender fighter in MMA 1.00
00:09:08.520 who's choking people out,
00:09:10.040 whether that's Laurel Hubbard
00:09:11.600 competing and taking the place as a woman, 0.89
00:09:13.900 or whether that's detransitioners
00:09:16.140 now coming through.
00:09:16.920 You're seeing lots of young people
00:09:18.200 who are saying,
00:09:18.900 I was basically let down the garden path
00:09:21.040 and now I've chopped bits of my body off
00:09:22.720 without necessarily being fully present
00:09:26.680 to what I was doing.
00:09:27.540 There's consequences to this.
00:09:29.440 There are massive consequences.
00:09:31.060 I sat in the second day
00:09:32.400 of the Keira Bell appeal
00:09:34.540 when the Tavistock said,
00:09:36.500 no, but we do want to give kids 0.77
00:09:38.440 puberty blockers,
00:09:39.760 which was a peculiar thing
00:09:41.640 to sit there thinking,
00:09:43.000 me, the taxpayer,
00:09:44.680 funding the Tavistock
00:09:46.340 to insist upon
00:09:47.880 actually giving kids puberty blockers.
00:09:50.500 And one of their barristers
00:09:51.720 was talking about
00:09:52.540 the autonomy of 10-year-olds
00:09:55.080 and the agency of a 10-year-old
00:09:57.700 to make that decision.
00:10:00.020 Sitting there and Keira Bell's in front
00:10:02.240 and she's brought this whole case
00:10:04.260 and even though she did lose
00:10:06.000 that particular bit of the whole ordeal for her,
00:10:10.780 she's opened conversations globally.
00:10:13.160 So whatever happened in that courtroom,
00:10:16.280 she totally won 0.99
00:10:17.340 and it was incredible.
00:10:19.460 But to listen to,
00:10:21.180 and I watched the three judges
00:10:22.320 and one of them was like the chief justice.
00:10:27.520 There was another master of the robes
00:10:28.880 and there was another one,
00:10:30.360 the female, 0.99
00:10:30.920 who I can't remember what her role was.
00:10:33.320 But she was jolly good.
00:10:35.340 She looked good.
00:10:37.800 Yeah, she looked great.
00:10:40.560 And so there's three of them
00:10:42.340 and at no point,
00:10:44.140 I was expecting at least a flicker of something
00:10:46.840 and an inquiry into,
00:10:49.820 really, these are children.
00:10:51.640 How far is this going to go?
00:10:53.300 And nobody was asking those questions.
00:10:55.780 It was insane.
00:10:57.660 So in answer to your question,
00:11:01.180 I can't remember what the question was.
00:11:02.820 Well, I think it was less of a question.
00:11:04.600 I actually do want to ask you this
00:11:07.660 because we talk about the slippery slope
00:11:10.480 not necessarily being a fallacy.
00:11:12.400 We've seen that with the trans issue.
00:11:13.980 We've seen that with COVID restrictions.
00:11:16.020 You know, people who were saying things a year ago
00:11:18.500 were called conspiracy theorists.
00:11:20.100 Now those very things are happening.
00:11:23.260 What do you think is coming,
00:11:25.020 given what you're seeing?
00:11:26.240 Because you mentioned Labour Party, Lib Dems,
00:11:28.360 but also the Tories
00:11:29.120 not really doing very much on this issue.
00:11:31.260 Where is this going?
00:11:32.100 Well, the Tories have got a few people,
00:11:36.080 I think, who could really turn the tide.
00:11:38.940 It just depends how much of a grip
00:11:41.300 Carrie Simmons has on Boris's... 1.00
00:11:45.100 Yes.
00:11:47.600 ...career.
00:11:50.200 It's not a euphemism.
00:11:52.340 So it just depends how much of a grip
00:11:54.740 the woke have got on the Conservatives.
00:11:57.380 But where is it going?
00:11:59.040 Well, they've just mandated this sort of consent
00:12:01.620 for 12-year-olds with vaccines.
00:12:03.740 So I think it could go to some really,
00:12:08.440 really dark places.
00:12:09.920 I think there's so many little things
00:12:12.180 that have happened, right,
00:12:13.000 to do with parents and children.
00:12:15.000 And I'm a mother of four.
00:12:18.380 And the little things, like,
00:12:20.280 we're not allowed to know
00:12:21.660 what they're doing in sex ed,
00:12:23.540 or you're not allowed to take them out
00:12:24.760 of the bullying lessons,
00:12:27.160 which often include things
00:12:28.380 that I don't necessarily would...
00:12:30.220 You know, I wouldn't have wanted
00:12:31.100 my seven-year-old to be talking about.
00:12:33.780 So there's severance there.
00:12:35.160 There's severance in the relationship
00:12:36.920 between parents and children
00:12:38.120 when it comes to consent for vaccines.
00:12:40.920 In Scotland, the NHS has sent 51 girls,
00:12:46.840 I think, to...
00:12:49.180 They called it something euphemistic,
00:12:51.660 but basically having their breasts removed 0.58
00:12:54.080 under 18, 51 girls.
00:12:56.960 So I don't know.
00:12:59.480 Is it an attack on reality?
00:13:01.380 Is it a severance of family?
00:13:03.300 Are all the people who've been saying
00:13:05.400 that there's some sort of crazy Marxist takeover
00:13:08.000 happening,
00:13:09.540 are they a little bit right?
00:13:13.320 Yes.
00:13:14.660 The thing...
00:13:16.320 There's several things about this issue
00:13:18.080 that I find disturbing,
00:13:19.660 particularly the use of language.
00:13:21.660 Someone very, very, very close to me
00:13:23.440 is looking at how,
00:13:24.480 for medical reasons,
00:13:25.360 having to go through a double mastectomy.
00:13:27.640 And reading up about it,
00:13:29.520 and we've sat down together,
00:13:31.240 and you're looking at the medical literature.
00:13:33.400 This is a very, very problematic,
00:13:37.580 invasive procedure.
00:13:40.300 And then when you hear other people talk about it,
00:13:42.660 these activists,
00:13:43.380 they go,
00:13:43.640 oh, it's just top surgery.
00:13:44.700 And you think,
00:13:45.040 no, it's not top surgery.
00:13:47.060 This is a major medical procedure.
00:13:50.700 Why are we using these frivolous terms?
00:13:54.580 Well, there's loads of frivolous terms out there. 0.98
00:13:56.960 Sex worker for prostitution. 0.93
00:13:58.420 We get away from the harrowing ordeal 0.99
00:14:01.020 of being like a street prostitute 0.99
00:14:03.640 if we call them sex workers. 0.99
00:14:05.800 And I think it's the same with top surgery. 0.54
00:14:08.020 The other thing's called bottom surgery.
00:14:10.740 Then there's...
00:14:12.420 I don't really know what...
00:14:15.280 There's getting breasts. 1.00
00:14:16.460 But yeah, 0.88
00:14:18.960 this need to disguise what's going on.
00:14:22.700 Like, there's non-binary surgeries now.
00:14:25.320 So a non-binary surgery might mean 0.99
00:14:27.320 that you have your testicles inverted 0.99
00:14:30.520 to create a cavity, 1.00
00:14:32.720 but you would keep your penis. 1.00
00:14:35.900 Girls who call themselves non-binary, 1.00
00:14:38.160 because there is just an insane war on breasts, 1.00
00:14:40.780 and I don't really know what this is about,
00:14:42.420 but you'll have a scar from there to there, 0.97
00:14:45.700 and you have your nipples removed, 0.95
00:14:47.900 and you just... 0.98
00:14:48.740 And there's also...
00:14:49.920 I think somebody called it mermaid surgery,
00:14:51.680 where you have quite a lot of things smoothed out, 0.98
00:14:55.680 like your genitals smoothed out, 0.99
00:14:57.100 and you just end up with a urethra. 0.99
00:14:59.700 So there's... 0.93
00:15:01.400 It's so gross
00:15:04.580 that if you talk to somebody
00:15:05.800 who knows nothing about it,
00:15:07.620 they will not believe a word you say,
00:15:09.540 because it's so insane.
00:15:12.240 And it's insane,
00:15:14.080 and we seem to be sacrificing our children.
00:15:17.020 That's the thing that really blows my mind,
00:15:19.660 because surely,
00:15:20.880 isn't it every parent's instinct
00:15:22.520 to protect their child?
00:15:24.480 Well, you would think so, right?
00:15:25.880 Like, if my child had said to me
00:15:27.440 when he was four,
00:15:28.980 I'm a girl,
00:15:30.580 the start and end of that conversation would be,
00:15:33.040 are you?
00:15:34.200 That would be it.
00:15:34.920 No drama,
00:15:36.140 no nothing,
00:15:37.260 that would just...
00:15:38.500 He'd forget about it,
00:15:39.380 I'd forget about it.
00:15:40.220 I read a woman 0.94
00:15:41.200 whose child wanted to wear...
00:15:44.420 So basically,
00:15:45.140 he wanted a towel around his hair
00:15:46.620 after a shower,
00:15:47.440 like she did.
00:15:48.820 And she said,
00:15:49.740 you can't have one,
00:15:50.520 and he said,
00:15:51.020 I'm a girl.
00:15:52.400 And so what she did with that,
00:15:54.240 she thought about that all night long.
00:15:56.460 And then within six months,
00:15:58.560 that kid was transitioning.
00:16:00.220 And it's women, 1.00
00:16:02.240 it's people with vaginas. 1.00
00:16:04.740 Bodies, bodies. 0.98
00:16:05.700 Let's use the correct medical language
00:16:08.040 from the Lancet, 0.98
00:16:08.940 it's bodies with vaginas. 1.00
00:16:10.280 It's bodies with vaginas 1.00
00:16:11.260 that are more likely to do that 0.99
00:16:14.940 to their kids.
00:16:16.040 Right.
00:16:16.920 Now,
00:16:17.260 I've thought about this long and hard.
00:16:18.960 I don't really know what that is about
00:16:20.400 because I find it,
00:16:21.960 that would go against
00:16:22.760 every instinctive fibre in my body
00:16:25.180 to allow something like that
00:16:27.700 to happen to one of my children.
00:16:29.000 But it is,
00:16:30.220 it is women 0.94
00:16:31.960 that are more likely
00:16:33.040 to do it to their kids.
00:16:34.540 Men are more likely 1.00
00:16:35.440 to just bring their autogynophilia
00:16:37.500 into their family home,
00:16:39.280 which is the fetish 0.86
00:16:40.980 of wanting to be a woman. 0.56
00:16:43.000 But no,
00:16:43.580 these,
00:16:43.980 it's women, 1.00
00:16:45.360 it's women doing it 1.00
00:16:46.600 to their kids.
00:16:47.600 I've been saying it for years.
00:16:49.040 No,
00:16:49.920 but
00:16:50.480 I do want to address
00:16:53.380 the other side of this conversation
00:16:54.660 as we did last time,
00:16:55.660 which is
00:16:56.180 none of us here
00:16:59.700 are people
00:17:00.920 who want
00:17:01.560 anyone to be suffering
00:17:03.140 or anyone to be
00:17:04.420 discriminated against
00:17:05.720 or treated badly.
00:17:06.920 And this is an area
00:17:08.240 where
00:17:08.760 the rights of different groups
00:17:10.600 come into conflict.
00:17:12.220 Right?
00:17:12.460 That's why we're having
00:17:13.120 this conversation.
00:17:14.060 Right?
00:17:14.940 So,
00:17:15.360 and I appreciate
00:17:15.960 that you're very strongly
00:17:17.000 on one side of that discussion.
00:17:19.420 But how,
00:17:20.320 how do we not lose
00:17:21.460 our humanity
00:17:22.040 in the process of this
00:17:22.940 and not dehumanise
00:17:24.060 other people
00:17:24.480 when we're talking about it?
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00:17:55.660 Well, uh...
00:17:59.180 Because that is important.
00:17:59.920 Would you agree?
00:18:01.160 Totally.
00:18:02.040 Look, if somebody
00:18:03.760 doesn't bring
00:18:04.440 their identity
00:18:06.940 or whatever
00:18:08.700 into my space,
00:18:09.780 if it doesn't
00:18:10.200 conflict with my rights,
00:18:12.200 do I care?
00:18:13.940 Not very much.
00:18:15.140 It's when that person's
00:18:19.660 identity...
00:18:20.960 Well, it's not even... 0.99
00:18:21.540 It's such a silly 0.92
00:18:22.360 word, identity.
00:18:23.840 It's when that person's
00:18:25.220 wants and desires
00:18:26.160 becomes something
00:18:27.060 that I have to deal with.
00:18:28.880 I don't want to deal with it.
00:18:30.560 I don't think it's
00:18:31.560 any of my business.
00:18:32.460 Don't make it my business.
00:18:34.060 Don't bring it
00:18:34.680 into my kids' schools.
00:18:36.180 Don't bring it
00:18:36.840 into my changing rooms,
00:18:38.080 my female-only space.
00:18:39.840 Now, the dehumanizing element,
00:18:41.940 it depends
00:18:43.740 how far we want to go.
00:18:45.500 I feel it's quite dehumanizing
00:18:47.080 to say that any man
00:18:48.200 can be a woman. 1.00
00:18:49.220 I think that totally
00:18:50.240 devalues and dehumanizes
00:18:51.740 what it is to be a woman.
00:18:54.360 But I don't think
00:18:55.360 people would say
00:18:56.200 that that was dehumanizing.
00:18:57.520 Whereas if I say
00:18:58.260 that person is a man,
00:18:59.920 I should be able to say
00:19:01.000 that person is a man.
00:19:02.400 As a female,
00:19:03.320 I understand that
00:19:04.240 that person poses
00:19:05.220 much more of a threat
00:19:06.100 to me than a female. 0.76
00:19:07.700 Now, that can be
00:19:09.420 from flashing
00:19:10.460 or just looking
00:19:14.100 at somebody.
00:19:15.660 Now, you lovely gents, 0.97
00:19:18.760 you prostate havers, 0.71
00:19:21.200 you probably haven't had
00:19:23.800 those sort of exchanges,
00:19:25.420 which most women have, 1.00
00:19:27.200 since basically 0.63
00:19:28.100 you get breasts. 0.99
00:19:30.480 And so the moment 0.88
00:19:31.280 that you sort of
00:19:31.940 turn into a woman,
00:19:33.520 and sometimes even before,
00:19:34.860 there's a lot of
00:19:36.820 kind of uncomfortable staring,
00:19:38.660 and that informs
00:19:39.980 the way that most women 1.00
00:19:41.340 feel about men.
00:19:43.360 And I don't think
00:19:45.000 that means that
00:19:45.680 every time I encounter
00:19:46.820 a bloke,
00:19:47.720 I think,
00:19:48.060 oh, God, 1.00
00:19:48.640 he's a pervert. 1.00
00:19:50.120 He's probably a rapist. 1.00
00:19:51.780 I don't feel like that at all. 1.00
00:19:53.520 But I can definitely feel
00:19:55.140 creepy men.
00:19:56.720 Yeah.
00:19:57.260 You know?
00:19:58.060 And I think women 1.00
00:19:58.780 feel it much more.
00:20:00.040 Women are vulnerable 0.96
00:20:01.080 to men
00:20:02.160 in certain situations.
00:20:03.660 It's just a fact, right?
00:20:05.180 Yeah.
00:20:06.380 Go on, Francis.
00:20:07.820 One of the things,
00:20:09.320 when people talk about,
00:20:10.900 oh, the toilet issue
00:20:12.500 not being an issue,
00:20:13.360 this is the argument
00:20:14.120 that someone presented to me,
00:20:15.780 and I don't really think
00:20:17.200 there's a counter-argument to it,
00:20:18.880 which is,
00:20:19.400 in a nightclub situation,
00:20:21.160 every woman has experience. 1.00
00:20:22.720 There's a creepy guy
00:20:23.680 who's following her around,
00:20:25.000 who's making her feel uncomfortable.
00:20:26.580 Where's the number one place
00:20:27.580 she heads to in the nightclub 1.00
00:20:29.280 as a method of escape?
00:20:31.380 She goes to the female toilets. 1.00
00:20:32.560 That is a safe space.
00:20:34.880 If that is obliterated,
00:20:37.700 she's got nowhere to go.
00:20:38.780 I know.
00:20:39.700 It's, um,
00:20:40.880 I was lucky enough
00:20:42.820 to go on holiday this year,
00:20:44.000 and I'd just come back,
00:20:45.400 and we went for
00:20:46.720 a McDonald's breakfast
00:20:47.560 because we are classy.
00:20:50.500 And we went into the McDonald's,
00:20:52.220 and I went to the loo,
00:20:54.040 and I'm in the cubicle,
00:20:56.120 and a man comes in, right?
00:20:59.400 Does not speak in English, 1.00
00:21:01.140 seems to be in quite a rush,
00:21:02.600 pushes open the door.
00:21:03.980 I promise,
00:21:05.100 this is what I did.
00:21:06.080 I just went,
00:21:08.140 and just didn't breathe.
00:21:10.680 I didn't kind of,
00:21:11.940 my instant response,
00:21:13.760 it wasn't a rational thing,
00:21:14.940 I just didn't breathe
00:21:15.880 until he'd left.
00:21:17.620 Because him in that space
00:21:19.420 totally changed that space,
00:21:21.920 and I wouldn't have felt like that
00:21:22.900 if it was a woman's voice.
00:21:24.660 And so,
00:21:25.600 for some reason,
00:21:27.300 we're going to,
00:21:27.800 we're having to pretend
00:21:28.840 that that isn't how we feel
00:21:30.400 when we hear a man's voice.
00:21:32.920 And it's not,
00:21:33.880 like I said,
00:21:34.580 it's, you know,
00:21:35.000 I've got,
00:21:35.440 I'm married to a lovely bloke,
00:21:37.060 but no matter how desperate
00:21:38.820 he was for the loo,
00:21:39.640 he's not going in the women's toilets 1.00
00:21:41.500 because he understands
00:21:42.720 how women feel
00:21:44.200 about men in their space.
00:21:45.860 It's why most men 1.00
00:21:47.020 would cross over the road
00:21:48.200 and not walk behind a woman 0.62
00:21:49.500 walking on her own.
00:21:51.460 And do you think
00:21:52.240 most women feel like that, 1.00
00:21:53.520 or do you think it's just
00:21:54.560 the way a certain section
00:21:56.400 of women feel?
00:21:57.340 I think most women 1.00
00:21:58.720 feel like that.
00:21:59.940 There's a book called,
00:22:01.060 by Gavin DeBecker,
00:22:02.100 called The Gift of Fear,
00:22:03.460 and it talks about
00:22:04.580 your body basically knows,
00:22:06.680 will respond to something
00:22:07.700 quicker than you will,
00:22:08.960 and you'll feel it.
00:22:09.720 So that's like
00:22:10.260 my holding my breath.
00:22:12.340 Now what I could have done,
00:22:13.380 which I think now
00:22:14.520 what a lot of women do, 1.00
00:22:16.040 is they would rationalise it
00:22:17.580 and start reasoning
00:22:18.640 with that instant response.
00:22:20.760 And they would rationalise
00:22:21.900 something that should
00:22:22.680 probably make them afraid
00:22:23.880 and will protect them.
00:22:26.080 And I think that is happening
00:22:28.460 really scarily with this
00:22:31.420 younger generation of women,
00:22:33.440 where they're not allowed
00:22:35.060 to trust their emotions
00:22:36.560 at all and their instincts.
00:22:38.100 They're being told
00:22:38.600 that they're mean,
00:22:39.640 they're unkind.
00:22:41.300 And so I think
00:22:42.560 it's really quite dangerous.
00:22:44.580 I don't know a single woman 1.00
00:22:46.080 that wouldn't feel afraid.
00:22:47.240 In a public toilet,
00:22:48.200 for example,
00:22:49.180 if a man came in.
00:22:51.500 Well, that makes perfect sense.
00:22:53.500 So,
00:22:55.020 come back to my compassion point, though.
00:22:57.680 Okay.
00:22:58.320 Yeah?
00:22:58.740 Because I do want to explore that,
00:23:00.220 because of all the questions
00:23:01.540 that I've now answered for myself,
00:23:03.020 that is one I'm still struggling with.
00:23:07.140 You don't strike me
00:23:08.600 as a bigoted person
00:23:09.780 or as a nasty person at all. 0.93
00:23:11.340 A lot of people think you are, though.
00:23:12.660 And I know now why that is,
00:23:15.220 because you'll refuse to bend
00:23:17.740 on things that matter, right?
00:23:20.260 That's why people consider you
00:23:21.920 a nasty person, 0.98
00:23:22.680 because you say it like it is 0.90
00:23:24.700 on a subject that most people
00:23:25.860 are very uncomfortable with, right?
00:23:27.520 That's why.
00:23:29.020 So,
00:23:29.960 but,
00:23:30.720 but I think we all ought to,
00:23:33.180 and I think we all try to,
00:23:34.620 actually,
00:23:35.620 have compassion at the same time.
00:23:37.840 So how do we,
00:23:38.980 the language in the conversation
00:23:40.480 seems extremely polarised.
00:23:43.880 Is there any,
00:23:44.900 is there any way
00:23:46.460 that this conversation
00:23:47.260 can be had in a more healthy way,
00:23:48.560 or do you just feel like
00:23:49.560 it's a war and you have to win?
00:23:53.660 How can I put this?
00:23:54.780 Because in a war,
00:23:55.560 compassion is not a virtue,
00:23:56.980 it's a vice.
00:23:57.320 Yeah.
00:23:57.760 Right?
00:23:58.320 You have to,
00:23:58.940 you have to win.
00:24:00.460 Well, I do,
00:24:01.000 I do feel I do have to win.
00:24:03.560 Yeah.
00:24:03.780 Because what is at stake
00:24:07.180 is phenomenal
00:24:09.180 and just horrific.
00:24:11.980 So, for example,
00:24:13.540 the word woman.
00:24:14.940 I was in a meeting the other day
00:24:16.620 and women who would call themselves 0.99
00:24:18.680 feminists,
00:24:19.520 like proper radical feminists, 1.00
00:24:22.280 use the word,
00:24:23.760 use the words,
00:24:25.320 female people 0.99
00:24:26.100 instead of woman. 1.00
00:24:27.700 Now, I can only imagine
00:24:29.440 the reason she felt
00:24:30.680 she had to use female people 1.00
00:24:32.280 is because the word woman
00:24:33.540 would sound too coarse,
00:24:35.340 too forthright,
00:24:36.680 too exclusionary.
00:24:38.060 And so she didn't use it.
00:24:40.140 Now, the reason we can't talk
00:24:41.940 in terms that you maybe feel
00:24:43.700 it doesn't show any compassion
00:24:45.580 is because we've lost
00:24:47.540 some of the words
00:24:48.500 that we should be able
00:24:49.360 to use for this.
00:24:50.780 Now, do I think a man 0.76
00:24:51.980 that can't go out
00:24:53.400 or just feels that,
00:24:55.320 just feels that he needs
00:24:57.900 to live as something else,
00:24:59.620 whatever that might mean to him,
00:25:01.040 do I feel compassion
00:25:02.940 for any human
00:25:03.820 who I think
00:25:05.440 they're probably wrong
00:25:06.140 that that will end
00:25:06.740 their suffering,
00:25:07.840 but who am I?
00:25:09.540 You know, of course,
00:25:10.560 I feel compassion
00:25:11.280 for everybody,
00:25:12.080 but my compassion
00:25:13.360 is so used up
00:25:14.940 by the women
00:25:17.220 that will lose
00:25:19.140 their rights,
00:25:20.100 lose the ability
00:25:20.900 to be able
00:25:22.120 to say at work,
00:25:23.040 actually I don't really want
00:25:25.020 Janet using the toilets.
00:25:28.080 I felt really uncomfortable
00:25:29.060 or the woman that wants
00:25:30.080 to remove her hijab 0.95
00:25:30.980 at lunchtime
00:25:31.620 and wants to go
00:25:32.760 in the loo to do it
00:25:33.500 and she can't do it anymore
00:25:34.480 because she can't guarantee
00:25:35.560 that's a female-only space 1.00
00:25:36.860 or the teenage girl
00:25:38.580 who goes in a changing room
00:25:40.220 in a toilet,
00:25:41.080 in a communal changing room
00:25:42.160 or where there's communal parts
00:25:43.680 to a female changing room 0.97
00:25:44.920 and there's a guy who,
00:25:46.600 oh, I don't know,
00:25:47.400 I think we used to call it
00:25:48.140 indecent exposure,
00:25:49.420 who's bravely getting 1.00
00:25:50.580 his female penis out 1.00
00:25:52.520 in the changing room. 1.00
00:25:55.460 It's spent.
00:25:56.760 My compassion is fully spent
00:25:58.780 on women and girls.
00:26:02.200 So I'm not inhuman.
00:26:06.460 I do think that all human beings
00:26:08.480 should have equal access
00:26:09.940 to equal rights,
00:26:11.760 but not at my expense.
00:26:15.480 And you say not at your expense.
00:26:19.120 What's going to be the end game?
00:26:20.400 Do you think?
00:26:21.140 If you don't,
00:26:22.740 if you say that the war is lost,
00:26:24.460 if it is a war.
00:26:26.700 Look where we are.
00:26:27.700 We've got rapists 0.86
00:26:28.500 in women's prisons. 1.00
00:26:29.340 Let's look at America.
00:26:30.320 So America is,
00:26:31.740 so I sell merchandise
00:26:33.800 and raise awareness
00:26:35.540 and I've sold merchandise
00:26:36.840 to a quarter of the countries
00:26:38.080 in the known world.
00:26:39.480 So I think it's quite
00:26:40.260 a global issue for women.
00:26:42.760 25% of all my stuff
00:26:44.200 goes to the USA.
00:26:46.960 In America, 0.65
00:26:48.460 in Californian prisons,
00:26:49.640 there are pregnant women
00:26:52.040 who have probably had
00:26:54.080 pretty awful lives
00:26:56.440 in the prison population
00:26:57.460 who are impregnated
00:26:59.060 by other women 0.80
00:27:00.720 that are in the prison population.
00:27:04.300 Those women 0.99
00:27:05.120 aren't allowed to know.
00:27:06.220 So they sleep about
00:27:07.200 eight in a room
00:27:07.960 in American prisons.
00:27:09.240 Those women 0.99
00:27:09.880 aren't allowed to know
00:27:10.640 that there's a man
00:27:11.260 coming into their
00:27:12.540 prison cell.
00:27:15.640 And
00:27:16.080 there's also men
00:27:17.720 going in with HIV
00:27:18.760 into women's prisons. 1.00
00:27:20.160 And that person's
00:27:21.320 human rights
00:27:21.980 to not let anybody
00:27:23.300 know they've got HIV
00:27:24.380 completely supersedes
00:27:26.440 the women's rights
00:27:27.160 to know that somebody
00:27:27.920 is coming in with HIV.
00:27:29.420 So we could be there.
00:27:32.080 We could be where
00:27:32.980 America is
00:27:33.660 where they slice off 1.00
00:27:34.840 the breasts 1.00
00:27:35.320 of like 13-year-old girls. 0.96
00:27:37.380 At 15,
00:27:38.040 you can do it
00:27:38.500 without your parents' 0.61
00:27:39.140 consent in Oregon.
00:27:40.500 We could be like Canada 0.69
00:27:41.900 where they'll take
00:27:42.560 your kids away
00:27:43.180 if you don't affirm
00:27:43.980 their so-called gender.
00:27:45.900 I think Jordan Peterson
00:27:48.500 said about the
00:27:49.480 compassion thing,
00:27:50.860 is it ultimately
00:27:51.640 compassionate to lie?
00:27:53.340 And I don't think it is.
00:27:55.000 I think a really
00:27:56.280 brave,
00:27:57.220 kind thing
00:27:58.040 and
00:27:58.400 you know,
00:27:59.500 like I say,
00:27:59.940 I've got kids.
00:28:00.700 The kindest thing
00:28:01.460 I do for my kids
00:28:02.260 is not necessarily
00:28:03.080 give them what they want.
00:28:05.000 And I still love them
00:28:06.200 and adore them
00:28:06.860 but you know,
00:28:07.600 if my son wanted
00:28:08.680 to get up every day
00:28:09.480 and have like a
00:28:10.200 200-gram bar of chocolate
00:28:11.400 for his breakfast,
00:28:12.940 I'm not going to
00:28:13.700 allow him to do that.
00:28:14.880 And that would be
00:28:16.020 an act of
00:28:17.320 kindness and compassion.
00:28:20.100 Where I've found
00:28:21.100 this ideology
00:28:21.800 starting to encroach
00:28:22.780 more and more,
00:28:23.440 not into our lives
00:28:24.580 because I think
00:28:25.920 we can all agree
00:28:26.760 that we all live
00:28:27.460 pretty weird lives
00:28:29.540 when you consider
00:28:30.280 what we do.
00:28:31.080 But when I talk
00:28:31.760 to my friends
00:28:32.300 who have got
00:28:32.680 regular jobs
00:28:33.480 and all of a sudden
00:28:34.600 now,
00:28:35.260 they've had to
00:28:36.100 tell people
00:28:36.880 what their pronouns are
00:28:38.000 and how they want
00:28:39.680 to be addressed.
00:28:40.840 And you see that
00:28:41.720 in very, very
00:28:42.300 liberal media circles
00:28:43.640 like in the theatre
00:28:44.360 where at the start
00:28:44.980 of the rehearsal
00:28:45.580 everybody has to
00:28:46.820 announce their pronouns.
00:28:49.140 But it's also
00:28:50.200 coming into the
00:28:51.200 corporate world.
00:28:52.580 I can tell that
00:28:53.580 you're not going
00:28:54.060 to agree with this.
00:28:54.820 Why do you disagree
00:28:55.560 with the whole pronoun
00:28:56.420 thing and having
00:28:57.720 to announce it?
00:28:58.500 I think it's quite weird.
00:29:01.920 I think,
00:29:04.640 I mean,
00:29:04.980 what do people want?
00:29:06.120 Like, clearly,
00:29:07.200 this is what,
00:29:08.060 I went to a feminist 1.00
00:29:08.900 meeting a long time ago
00:29:10.000 and I did my first,
00:29:12.780 like, Facebook live.
00:29:16.520 And they sort of
00:29:17.620 wanted pronouns.
00:29:18.620 Now, I look like,
00:29:19.500 I look like this.
00:29:21.120 I'm five foot one.
00:29:22.500 I'm quite clearly
00:29:23.660 a woman.
00:29:25.540 If you don't know
00:29:26.460 what my pronouns might be,
00:29:27.900 then you're a bit 1.00
00:29:28.600 of an idiot. 1.00
00:29:30.380 And I just think 1.00
00:29:31.540 it's asking of people,
00:29:33.240 it's asking people to,
00:29:35.060 it's very sneaky,
00:29:37.180 it's saying,
00:29:38.340 come into this ideology.
00:29:40.420 Nobody really needs to know.
00:29:41.980 I mean,
00:29:42.180 if we're all supposed
00:29:42.860 to be equal,
00:29:44.200 like if we were
00:29:44.840 in a truly progressive place,
00:29:47.140 then would it really matter
00:29:48.520 what anybody's pronouns are
00:29:50.040 or how anybody identifies
00:29:51.500 at work?
00:29:52.700 I mean,
00:29:52.980 does it mean that you
00:29:53.740 can't do John's accounts
00:29:55.060 on a Friday
00:29:55.640 if you're,
00:29:56.660 are they them?
00:29:58.380 I mean,
00:30:00.360 it's just,
00:30:01.400 no.
00:30:03.120 I've got friends
00:30:03.960 who work in places
00:30:04.900 where they have to wear
00:30:05.820 the rainbow lanyard
00:30:06.740 and they hate it.
00:30:08.060 They don't want to.
00:30:09.160 They want to just go to work.
00:30:11.380 You know,
00:30:11.640 not many of them
00:30:12.880 absolutely adore their jobs.
00:30:14.720 They do it
00:30:15.160 because they want
00:30:15.800 to actually have a life
00:30:16.920 and pay for their mortgage.
00:30:18.700 You know,
00:30:18.960 there's not too many people
00:30:19.800 skipping to work
00:30:20.640 and going, 1.00
00:30:21.920 damn, 0.99
00:30:22.360 five o'clock on a Friday. 1.00
00:30:23.740 Damn, 0.98
00:30:24.100 I wish I could just work 0.99
00:30:24.960 the whole weekend.
00:30:26.300 These are our places of work.
00:30:27.720 They're not places
00:30:28.420 to encourage us
00:30:29.740 to be ideologically insane.
00:30:33.680 Do you think
00:30:34.020 this is,
00:30:34.480 this is really where we are
00:30:35.740 and it applies
00:30:36.220 to much more
00:30:37.100 than just the trans issue,
00:30:38.500 which is,
00:30:39.460 we've just,
00:30:40.280 for some reason,
00:30:41.040 I don't really understand
00:30:42.020 why I've decided
00:30:42.840 that the point
00:30:44.060 of all aspects
00:30:45.260 of society
00:30:45.900 is to do social engineering.
00:30:47.620 The police
00:30:48.180 is not about
00:30:49.060 policing crime.
00:30:49.900 It's about social engineering.
00:30:51.680 Civil service
00:30:52.300 is not about
00:30:52.800 running the country.
00:30:53.800 It's about social engineering.
00:30:55.800 Comedy is not about
00:30:56.760 making jokes.
00:30:57.860 It's about social engineering.
00:31:00.100 Every aspect
00:31:00.960 of our society,
00:31:01.880 now,
00:31:02.040 wherever you look,
00:31:03.080 it seems to be
00:31:03.860 that social engineering
00:31:04.860 is the number one priority
00:31:06.060 and the actual function
00:31:07.400 of that organisation
00:31:08.260 seems to be secondary
00:31:09.360 at the very least.
00:31:10.720 If I believed
00:31:11.600 in massive conspiracy theories
00:31:13.040 and I was China,
00:31:14.240 right,
00:31:14.960 I'd love this right now,
00:31:17.160 wouldn't you?
00:31:17.520 You just place
00:31:18.680 all these little things
00:31:19.560 like,
00:31:19.860 oh,
00:31:20.260 let's not help them
00:31:21.280 think about
00:31:21.880 long-term financial solutions
00:31:24.920 that are going to make
00:31:25.680 the poorest in the country
00:31:26.700 more wealthy.
00:31:28.500 Let's not do that.
00:31:29.780 Let's make them all
00:31:30.740 talk about gender. 1.00
00:31:32.660 Let's make them all
00:31:33.600 talk about racism.
00:31:35.900 Let's do that.
00:31:37.540 I just,
00:31:38.760 if they found
00:31:40.140 a troll farm
00:31:41.220 that was more deadly 0.61
00:31:43.000 than COVID,
00:31:43.880 I wouldn't be surprised.
00:31:46.520 I just think
00:31:47.080 that kind of
00:31:48.960 is the only thing
00:31:49.540 that really does make sense
00:31:50.880 that the information war
00:31:53.000 is upon us
00:31:54.040 and loads of these things,
00:31:56.320 they're not real issues,
00:31:57.320 are they?
00:31:57.880 No.
00:31:58.100 A real issue is
00:31:59.380 not being able
00:32:01.060 to buy a house
00:32:01.940 in your, like,
00:32:03.400 mid-twenties
00:32:04.100 or thirties.
00:32:05.800 I just talked
00:32:06.780 to a lovely taxi driver.
00:32:08.580 My parents
00:32:09.060 were both manual workers.
00:32:10.240 They got married
00:32:10.700 as teenagers.
00:32:12.220 Within three years
00:32:13.000 of being married
00:32:13.600 and they had two children
00:32:14.500 by then,
00:32:15.000 living with my grandmother,
00:32:16.140 they could afford a house.
00:32:18.120 And, like,
00:32:19.020 my dad literally
00:32:19.840 sorted sheepskins
00:32:21.280 in a,
00:32:22.240 I mean,
00:32:22.540 they both did very well
00:32:23.460 and they both worked
00:32:24.000 really hard
00:32:24.440 and my mother
00:32:24.900 was a,
00:32:25.500 cleaned offices
00:32:26.300 because she had
00:32:27.500 small children.
00:32:29.120 They could buy a house.
00:32:30.940 When I was a little girl,
00:32:32.200 teachers were well off.
00:32:34.400 They were the people
00:32:35.060 in the nice houses
00:32:36.340 and the brand new estates.
00:32:37.640 They had big houses.
00:32:39.480 Now,
00:32:40.220 I think that's,
00:32:41.320 maybe that's the,
00:32:42.180 the whole replacement thing.
00:32:44.140 That if you think about
00:32:44.980 these kind of ethereal,
00:32:47.000 ideological things,
00:32:48.020 you're not really thinking about,
00:32:49.780 actually,
00:32:50.160 my life's pretty bad.
00:32:51.880 I've got no control.
00:32:53.400 I'm never going to be able
00:32:54.340 to afford to buy a house.
00:32:55.700 I'm never going to be able
00:32:56.700 to leave this job.
00:32:57.700 My rent is so high,
00:32:59.000 which means I can't save
00:33:00.180 for a deposit.
00:33:01.180 All of those things
00:33:02.300 are really,
00:33:02.840 really important.
00:33:03.980 They make a difference.
00:33:05.320 Workers' rights.
00:33:06.600 So,
00:33:06.860 in this country,
00:33:08.320 we've got the Equality Act
00:33:09.400 and I was looking into it
00:33:10.720 to see whether or not
00:33:11.640 we should just totally
00:33:12.720 get rid of it
00:33:13.400 and start again
00:33:14.220 and have separate,
00:33:15.080 like a Disability Rights Act,
00:33:16.980 for example,
00:33:18.120 because I think that really,
00:33:19.480 that really is important.
00:33:21.860 Just to go on a tangent,
00:33:24.260 trains may be emblazoned
00:33:25.480 with pride flags,
00:33:27.220 but most people
00:33:28.740 with disabilities
00:33:30.080 have to plan a journey,
00:33:32.360 like months in advance,
00:33:33.600 to make sure
00:33:34.080 that there's someone
00:33:34.600 to meet them
00:33:35.160 and half the stations
00:33:35.980 don't even have,
00:33:37.180 you can't even get off a train
00:33:38.420 onto a platform.
00:33:39.820 Nobody cares about that.
00:33:40.900 It's much better
00:33:41.380 to talk about
00:33:42.140 the minority rights
00:33:43.860 of LGBT people,
00:33:45.740 which I have no idea
00:33:47.040 what rights those people
00:33:47.960 don't have in this country.
00:33:50.180 And now I've forgotten
00:33:51.180 where I've gone
00:33:52.400 with my tangent.
00:33:53.580 Well, actually,
00:33:54.120 you were making,
00:33:55.160 I think,
00:33:55.400 what is a very profound point,
00:33:56.840 which is all of these distractions
00:33:58.880 and the conversations
00:34:00.560 we have about
00:34:01.580 all of these issues,
00:34:02.720 which are much more
00:34:03.700 intellectual than practical.
00:34:05.280 are a way of giving us
00:34:06.960 all something
00:34:07.520 to chew on mentally 0.70
00:34:09.240 and to try and control
00:34:11.120 in a world
00:34:12.300 in which we increasingly
00:34:13.280 control less and less,
00:34:14.800 have less and less,
00:34:15.880 particularly for young people,
00:34:17.160 opportunities
00:34:17.740 that they see
00:34:18.980 in front of them
00:34:19.600 going forward.
00:34:20.200 So if you can't control
00:34:21.080 your job,
00:34:21.820 you can't control your housing,
00:34:22.820 you can't control your prospect,
00:34:24.160 but you can control
00:34:25.200 your gender.
00:34:26.260 And by the way,
00:34:27.080 if you start talking
00:34:27.920 about it quite a lot,
00:34:29.200 you're going to get attention,
00:34:30.480 you're going to get
00:34:30.940 positive reinforcement.
00:34:31.920 If you do it on social media,
00:34:33.260 you might become
00:34:34.200 a mini celebrity
00:34:35.560 in that world,
00:34:36.380 et cetera.
00:34:37.560 And it's all a distraction,
00:34:39.060 so should we stop
00:34:39.540 talking about it?
00:34:41.940 Well, we could,
00:34:43.000 but the unfortunate thing
00:34:44.020 is it now has
00:34:44.840 practical consequences.
00:34:46.460 And so I think
00:34:48.980 it did start off
00:34:49.900 as something like
00:34:51.200 a few people
00:34:51.700 talking about it online
00:34:52.680 and it blew up.
00:34:54.800 And then the shame
00:34:56.600 of it all,
00:34:57.680 the thing that killed it
00:34:58.840 is when the state
00:34:59.840 got involved.
00:35:00.680 So in 2004,
00:35:01.860 when we made
00:35:02.520 a legal fiction,
00:35:03.400 which was basically
00:35:04.040 to cover up the fact
00:35:04.820 that we were homophobes
00:35:05.780 and we didn't want 0.98
00:35:06.340 gay people to marry,
00:35:07.840 same-sex couples to marry, 0.79
00:35:09.380 then we invented
00:35:11.040 this GRA 0.99
00:35:11.700 and this Gender Recognition Act
00:35:13.360 and the lovely David Lammy
00:35:14.660 was instrumental.
00:35:16.180 And Norman Tebbitt
00:35:17.180 said,
00:35:18.560 are we really creating
00:35:19.700 an act
00:35:21.120 in which women
00:35:22.420 will be,
00:35:23.400 have XY chromosomes
00:35:25.660 and men
00:35:26.240 will have XX?
00:35:27.560 This is a fiction,
00:35:28.460 this is not true.
00:35:30.040 And Anne Woodcombe, 0.79
00:35:31.040 I think she also
00:35:31.640 spoke against it.
00:35:33.280 Conviction politicians,
00:35:34.500 what happened to them?
00:35:36.840 And so
00:35:37.420 it's just,
00:35:40.680 it's,
00:35:41.100 that's the bit
00:35:41.740 that's ruined it.
00:35:43.140 because you can have
00:35:44.500 fringe people
00:35:45.260 that kind of think
00:35:46.080 that gender
00:35:47.320 is something ethereal
00:35:48.500 and we can just do
00:35:49.340 whatever we like
00:35:50.120 and isn't that great
00:35:50.920 and yeah,
00:35:52.000 you know,
00:35:52.900 people have always
00:35:53.440 had crazy ideas.
00:35:54.660 We just didn't have
00:35:55.280 a state that stepped in
00:35:56.180 and gone,
00:35:56.660 oh yeah,
00:35:57.260 that's right,
00:35:58.240 let's teach it in schools.
00:36:00.360 I think the one
00:36:01.880 part of
00:36:03.460 your argument
00:36:04.960 that people would
00:36:05.640 really push back on
00:36:06.680 is the autogynophile
00:36:07.820 element of it.
00:36:09.560 And you've used
00:36:10.580 that word once.
00:36:11.520 Number one,
00:36:13.320 what does that
00:36:14.000 actually mean?
00:36:16.060 Okay,
00:36:16.540 so it's the fetish
00:36:17.680 of embodying, 1.00
00:36:19.760 of having a vagina 1.00
00:36:21.320 and embodying 0.99
00:36:22.500 the body
00:36:23.520 of a woman.
00:36:24.420 So it's about
00:36:25.280 literally
00:36:26.000 wanting to be
00:36:28.560 a woman 0.57
00:36:28.920 or believing
00:36:29.720 that you are.
00:36:30.280 So you have 0.98
00:36:30.920 a sexual fantasy 0.96
00:36:31.740 and you're turned 0.98
00:36:32.460 on by yourself
00:36:33.180 as a woman.
00:36:35.220 Right,
00:36:36.140 okay.
00:36:36.320 You look a bit sick.
00:36:37.200 Or excited,
00:36:39.980 you never know.
00:36:41.060 Depends.
00:36:41.680 I mean,
00:36:41.880 there's new frontiers
00:36:42.820 every day,
00:36:43.440 Posie.
00:36:44.040 So that being
00:36:44.940 the case,
00:36:45.740 right,
00:36:46.160 to what extent
00:36:48.100 do you personally
00:36:49.460 think that
00:36:50.220 people identifying
00:36:52.640 as a woman
00:36:53.580 have this condition
00:36:54.620 and why do you
00:36:55.320 think that?
00:36:56.540 So I think
00:36:58.120 it's probably
00:36:58.500 a really large number.
00:36:59.840 So we used
00:37:00.360 to call people,
00:37:00.960 we used to call
00:37:01.620 them transsexuals 1.00
00:37:02.640 and transvestites. 0.96
00:37:04.180 And I think 0.53
00:37:04.760 we knew 0.72
00:37:05.320 that transvestites 0.99
00:37:06.700 had a fetish 0.95
00:37:09.220 and they didn't
00:37:11.400 often walk around
00:37:12.380 the streets
00:37:13.040 in their get-up.
00:37:14.620 They often
00:37:14.960 sort of kept it
00:37:15.600 at home,
00:37:16.040 you know,
00:37:16.260 like where,
00:37:17.480 I don't know,
00:37:17.980 arguably that's
00:37:18.720 where you should
00:37:19.220 perform your kink.
00:37:22.640 So we knew
00:37:24.420 that this happened.
00:37:25.200 We knew
00:37:25.540 that there were
00:37:26.180 issues with it,
00:37:27.220 but these men
00:37:29.020 used to meet
00:37:29.480 in secret
00:37:29.980 and it was all
00:37:30.400 a bit shameful
00:37:30.960 and taboo,
00:37:31.660 which is also
00:37:32.120 part of the excitement
00:37:33.320 of being an
00:37:34.100 autogynophile.
00:37:35.320 And Grayson Perry
00:37:36.920 will talk about it.
00:37:38.920 Risk is
00:37:39.760 a big aphrodisiac.
00:37:42.720 You know,
00:37:42.960 and I mean,
00:37:43.300 the first time
00:37:43.900 I went out
00:37:44.380 in my mum's
00:37:45.140 clothes was
00:37:46.420 very, very exciting
00:37:47.320 and I became
00:37:48.800 addicted to that.
00:37:50.440 He'll talk about
00:37:51.240 absolutely
00:37:52.160 that sexual 0.62
00:37:53.740 arisal is all 0.78
00:37:54.500 part of his
00:37:55.040 dress-up.
00:37:55.920 That's why he wears
00:37:56.760 quite wide
00:37:57.700 dresses.
00:37:59.240 And he'll talk
00:38:00.120 about that.
00:38:00.520 That's not me
00:38:01.280 saying that
00:38:02.200 that's what he does.
00:38:03.100 But now
00:38:04.660 we have to
00:38:05.120 pretend that
00:38:05.700 that's not
00:38:06.240 right and
00:38:07.000 it's stunning
00:38:07.520 and brave.
00:38:08.700 I think about
00:38:09.440 10% of all
00:38:10.300 porn consumed
00:38:11.480 is,
00:38:12.960 I can't use,
00:38:13.980 they would use
00:38:14.600 the word to
00:38:15.080 describe it, 0.78
00:38:15.760 so transsexual 1.00
00:38:16.840 or men
00:38:18.880 who have 0.98
00:38:19.520 male genitals 0.98
00:38:20.840 but also have 0.99
00:38:22.140 breast implants.
00:38:23.760 That's quite 0.98
00:38:24.540 high in porn.
00:38:25.300 I talked to 0.98
00:38:26.840 a mother
00:38:27.540 and her son
00:38:29.120 had been
00:38:29.480 booted out
00:38:30.440 of a
00:38:31.860 baseball team
00:38:32.620 and she
00:38:34.580 said that
00:38:35.680 he then sort
00:38:36.220 of went in
00:38:36.580 his room
00:38:36.940 for a couple
00:38:37.380 of years.
00:38:38.340 He was
00:38:38.500 absolutely
00:38:38.920 gutted
00:38:39.460 because it
00:38:40.380 was American
00:38:40.900 and obviously
00:38:42.040 in America
00:38:42.440 these things
00:38:42.900 are massive
00:38:43.640 aren't they
00:38:44.040 if you're
00:38:44.340 part of
00:38:44.800 the first
00:38:45.820 team
00:38:46.220 and unlike
00:38:47.260 in Britain
00:38:47.760 where I think
00:38:48.400 if you're not
00:38:48.820 in the first
00:38:49.200 team there's
00:38:49.540 a second
00:38:49.900 or a third.
00:38:51.040 If you're not
00:38:51.320 in the team
00:38:51.660 you're out
00:38:52.140 and he was
00:38:52.940 really depressed
00:38:53.620 and then she
00:38:54.280 said he said
00:38:54.940 that he was
00:38:55.420 a woman 0.57
00:38:56.040 he identified
00:38:56.880 as a girl
00:38:57.420 and it transpired
00:38:59.120 that he identified
00:38:59.820 as a girl
00:39:00.380 because he
00:39:00.860 really enjoyed
00:39:01.600 watching pornography 1.00
00:39:03.140 featuring lesbians 1.00
00:39:04.700 and so he
00:39:05.900 decided he wanted
00:39:06.600 to be a lesbian 0.73
00:39:07.360 and so that
00:39:09.040 would be the
00:39:09.440 beginnings of
00:39:10.000 what we would
00:39:10.480 call autogynephilia.
00:39:14.040 There's all
00:39:14.680 sorts of reasons
00:39:15.360 that people
00:39:15.860 have sexual 0.82
00:39:17.180 fetishes. 0.98
00:39:17.900 There are men
00:39:18.380 that are obsessed
00:39:19.020 with feet.
00:39:20.380 I know one
00:39:21.100 such man that's
00:39:21.840 obsessed with feet
00:39:22.520 and that's because
00:39:23.220 his mother
00:39:24.220 mainly ignored him
00:39:25.020 but her friend
00:39:25.860 used to kick him
00:39:26.680 under the table.
00:39:28.260 You know these
00:39:28.720 I think your 0.99
00:39:29.360 sexual fetish 0.98
00:39:30.200 kind of the
00:39:30.980 mechanics of it
00:39:31.860 can set before
00:39:32.840 you're sort of
00:39:34.080 six, seven years
00:39:34.860 old.
00:39:35.580 Again, Grayson Perry
00:39:36.660 will talk about
00:39:37.380 this.
00:39:38.080 This is not
00:39:38.620 something that
00:39:39.100 I've made up.
00:39:40.780 So I do think
00:39:41.680 there's a high
00:39:42.360 rate of
00:39:43.620 autogynephilia.
00:39:44.620 Debbie Hayton
00:39:45.260 for example
00:39:45.720 that you had on
00:39:46.460 has written about
00:39:47.600 being an
00:39:48.200 autogynophile.
00:39:49.980 And that being
00:39:50.960 the case
00:39:51.500 so where does
00:39:52.280 gender dysphoria
00:39:53.000 come into it
00:39:53.660 then?
00:39:54.820 For them
00:39:55.320 I don't know.
00:39:57.460 I don't know
00:39:57.920 that it does.
00:39:59.080 I think if you
00:39:59.760 had a powerful
00:40:00.460 like women 1.00
00:40:01.640 don't really have
00:40:02.580 fetishes as much
00:40:03.840 as men.
00:40:04.340 I'm not saying
00:40:04.800 none of us do
00:40:05.520 but generally
00:40:07.340 speaking we don't.
00:40:08.740 We also don't
00:40:09.620 have the same
00:40:10.140 relationship with
00:40:10.960 sex as men do. 0.99
00:40:12.640 Many women have 1.00
00:40:13.420 tried to pretend
00:40:13.940 that we're the
00:40:14.480 same as men 0.95
00:40:15.060 but we're really
00:40:15.880 really not.
00:40:16.360 Our bodies are
00:40:16.860 very very
00:40:17.660 different.
00:40:19.880 But the
00:40:21.180 driver of
00:40:22.720 sexual fetish
00:40:24.780 and the 0.57
00:40:25.980 power I think
00:40:26.820 it can have
00:40:27.360 over someone
00:40:28.100 if you look
00:40:29.800 at murder
00:40:30.660 for example
00:40:31.260 that can
00:40:32.500 sometimes be
00:40:33.420 a sexual
00:40:34.060 fetish
00:40:34.580 and so
00:40:35.500 that will
00:40:35.920 go from
00:40:36.620 as shown
00:40:37.720 in Sarah
00:40:38.860 Everard's
00:40:39.380 murder
00:40:39.720 flashing 0.95
00:40:41.160 and it will
00:40:42.280 just go up
00:40:42.960 and it will
00:40:43.840 just increase
00:40:44.800 and it's
00:40:45.320 all to do
00:40:45.900 with a
00:40:46.200 sexual driver
00:40:46.880 often serial 0.99
00:40:47.840 killers are
00:40:48.760 driven by 0.98
00:40:49.200 sexual desires
00:40:50.120 and we know
00:40:52.740 this we know
00:40:53.700 this we know
00:40:54.420 that there
00:40:55.220 there used
00:40:56.200 to be all
00:40:57.560 sorts of
00:40:57.980 different inquiries
00:40:58.800 into behaviour
00:41:00.160 studies as to
00:41:01.120 why people
00:41:01.700 commit these
00:41:02.200 crimes we
00:41:03.380 don't seem to
00:41:03.980 want to look
00:41:04.380 at that anymore
00:41:05.000 I'm going to
00:41:06.620 be honest with you
00:41:07.020 when we started
00:41:07.560 the show three
00:41:08.220 and a half
00:41:08.540 years ago I
00:41:09.080 didn't think
00:41:09.560 we'd be sitting
00:41:10.060 talking about
00:41:10.760 sorry
00:41:13.200 no it's not
00:41:14.400 your fault
00:41:14.860 I'm just
00:41:15.300 I'm like
00:41:16.480 how do we
00:41:16.920 get here
00:41:17.500 this is so
00:41:18.760 weird
00:41:19.340 like if I
00:41:20.720 try and explain
00:41:21.440 this stuff to
00:41:22.160 like my family
00:41:22.900 back
00:41:23.200 like my mum
00:41:25.380 I'm not even
00:41:26.380 sure I can
00:41:26.740 explain to my mum
00:41:27.460 what I do
00:41:27.900 for a living
00:41:28.360 anymore
00:41:28.820 we are through
00:41:30.600 the looking glass 1.00
00:41:31.300 with this shit 1.00
00:41:31.800 I know 1.00
00:41:32.180 and I find it
00:41:33.820 very confusing
00:41:34.500 honestly
00:41:35.480 there's kink
00:41:36.380 clubs at
00:41:37.200 universities
00:41:37.880 official
00:41:38.900 kink
00:41:39.820 clubs 0.98
00:41:40.260 BDSM
00:41:41.600 official
00:41:42.820 university
00:41:43.640 is it
00:41:44.540 discord
00:41:45.080 so it'll
00:41:46.160 be like
00:41:46.500 yeah
00:41:46.900 so BDSM
00:41:49.300 my son was
00:41:50.320 sent out
00:41:50.980 on Instagram
00:41:52.420 there was a
00:41:53.140 post about
00:41:53.700 sex work
00:41:54.540 being a sex 0.87
00:41:55.640 worker as a 0.93
00:41:56.260 student
00:41:56.720 what
00:41:57.580 yeah
00:41:58.200 so I just
00:42:00.020 want this
00:42:00.320 clarified
00:42:00.720 because I'm
00:42:01.360 suddenly feeling
00:42:02.000 very old
00:42:02.560 and very
00:42:02.940 conservative
00:42:03.500 sex work
00:42:04.860 as in
00:42:05.180 prostitution
00:42:05.880 or being 1.00
00:42:06.720 a stripper
00:42:07.220 no as in
00:42:08.300 anything goes
00:42:09.480 anything
00:42:10.040 how to be
00:42:11.060 safe
00:42:11.480 and a sex 0.82
00:42:12.520 worker
00:42:12.900 at uni
00:42:14.860 how to
00:42:15.400 pay your
00:42:15.800 way through
00:42:16.200 uni
00:42:16.540 being a 0.95
00:42:17.400 sex worker
00:42:17.900 do you think
00:42:19.940 the pendulum
00:42:21.000 is just
00:42:21.540 over swung
00:42:22.280 here
00:42:22.640 Kelly
00:42:23.600 you know
00:42:24.620 the society
00:42:26.520 was discriminatory
00:42:27.680 against gay 1.00
00:42:28.600 people 0.97
00:42:29.000 it was
00:42:29.440 discriminatory
00:42:30.100 against women 1.00
00:42:30.700 and in the
00:42:31.920 process of
00:42:32.740 liberating all
00:42:33.640 those groups
00:42:34.120 and making
00:42:34.540 sure they all
00:42:35.180 had the same
00:42:35.680 rights as
00:42:36.040 everybody else
00:42:36.640 we kind of
00:42:37.500 just went
00:42:37.860 you know
00:42:38.120 what
00:42:38.320 let's
00:42:38.660 not have
00:42:39.300 shame
00:42:39.580 about
00:42:39.800 anything
00:42:40.340 let's
00:42:41.040 say that
00:42:41.300 everything
00:42:41.640 is normal
00:42:42.280 everything
00:42:43.280 every human
00:42:44.500 instinct
00:42:45.000 is to be
00:42:46.120 celebrated
00:42:46.880 there's nothing
00:42:48.120 wrong with
00:42:48.940 anything
00:42:49.460 there's no
00:42:49.920 right or
00:42:50.380 wrong
00:42:50.580 that's
00:42:50.980 moralistic
00:42:51.640 judgments
00:42:52.120 and we
00:42:52.740 need to
00:42:53.220 everything
00:42:53.540 is relative
00:42:54.100 and it's
00:42:54.460 all about
00:42:54.920 you know
00:42:55.340 whatever
00:42:55.920 and we've
00:42:57.100 just gone
00:42:57.520 a little
00:42:57.840 bit too
00:42:58.340 far
00:42:58.620 and therefore
00:42:59.420 we're going
00:42:59.800 to have
00:43:00.140 a correction
00:43:00.780 back when
00:43:01.420 the pendulum
00:43:01.940 sort of
00:43:02.400 slows and
00:43:02.980 stops
00:43:03.320 and then
00:43:03.720 swings back
00:43:04.240 what I fear
00:43:05.620 is that we'll
00:43:07.020 go so far
00:43:07.940 into chaos
00:43:08.780 that the only
00:43:10.240 thing that will
00:43:11.380 be able to
00:43:11.800 bring us
00:43:12.260 back is a
00:43:13.060 very prescriptive
00:43:14.280 religion
00:43:14.720 yeah
00:43:15.160 so I do
00:43:16.820 fear that
00:43:17.620 it's like
00:43:19.300 humans at the
00:43:20.100 moment are all
00:43:21.020 running around
00:43:21.800 nobody knows
00:43:22.740 what's morally
00:43:23.420 okay
00:43:23.860 in the 1980s
00:43:26.400 single mothers
00:43:27.060 were demonized 0.89
00:43:27.920 terrible
00:43:28.620 they're the
00:43:29.600 sort of people
00:43:30.180 that were left
00:43:30.580 behind raising
00:43:31.420 children
00:43:31.900 and that
00:43:33.940 was
00:43:34.120 they were
00:43:35.100 supposed to
00:43:35.440 feel a
00:43:35.800 great deal
00:43:36.180 of shame
00:43:36.720 and now
00:43:37.820 you've got
00:43:38.280 women in 0.62
00:43:38.780 pajamas
00:43:39.260 walking their
00:43:40.740 kids to school
00:43:41.460 eating a packet
00:43:42.060 of frazzles
00:43:42.580 for breakfast
00:43:43.200 with no shame
00:43:45.140 whatsoever
00:43:45.560 and if you
00:43:46.040 criticize those
00:43:46.860 women 1.00
00:43:47.120 if you say
00:43:48.260 Jesus
00:43:49.580 like how is
00:43:51.280 that kid
00:43:51.720 gonna have
00:43:52.200 any sort
00:43:52.740 of life
00:43:53.240 or whatever
00:43:54.060 you're like
00:43:54.880 oh well
00:43:55.320 you know
00:43:55.620 that's really
00:43:56.220 shameful
00:43:56.720 and shaming
00:43:57.600 but I bring
00:43:59.340 it back
00:43:59.760 I say
00:44:00.240 bring back
00:44:00.980 shame
00:44:02.060 well this
00:44:02.980 is
00:44:03.280 I mean
00:44:05.000 I said this
00:44:06.600 the other day
00:44:07.020 like the culture
00:44:07.960 was basically
00:44:08.640 turning a lot
00:44:09.340 of normal
00:44:09.720 people into
00:44:10.380 these radical
00:44:12.380 reactionaries
00:44:13.420 simply because
00:44:14.800 quite a lot
00:44:15.640 of us are
00:44:16.000 just going
00:44:16.560 you've gone
00:44:18.080 too far
00:44:18.540 now
00:44:18.840 you know
00:44:19.900 like some
00:44:22.280 things ought
00:44:23.300 not to be
00:44:23.840 encouraged
00:44:24.340 do you know
00:44:25.580 and I mean
00:44:26.300 you gave an
00:44:26.800 example there
00:44:27.480 but you know
00:44:28.160 single parenthood
00:44:29.260 whether it's
00:44:29.820 mothers or fathers
00:44:30.560 to say that
00:44:31.580 it's not
00:44:32.120 going to lead
00:44:32.860 to the best
00:44:33.340 outcome
00:44:33.700 statistically
00:44:34.160 speaking
00:44:34.620 now you're
00:44:35.180 you're shaming
00:44:35.740 whatever 0.98
00:44:36.440 slut shaming 0.94
00:44:37.780 well is it 0.97
00:44:38.420 a good idea
00:44:39.020 for for
00:44:39.820 women to have 1.00
00:44:40.840 sex with hundreds 1.00
00:44:41.540 of men 0.99
00:44:42.000 and to treat
00:44:42.540 sex the way 0.80
00:44:43.280 men do
00:44:43.800 who are
00:44:44.240 designed
00:44:44.720 biologically
00:44:45.320 very differently
00:44:46.020 is it
00:44:46.780 or should
00:44:47.360 should
00:44:47.720 I mean
00:44:48.020 every society
00:44:49.060 prior to us
00:44:49.820 has had some
00:44:50.400 sort of restrictions
00:44:51.180 around that
00:44:51.900 to encourage
00:44:52.920 certain types
00:44:53.520 do we
00:44:54.520 do we throw
00:44:55.360 all past
00:44:56.820 learning out
00:44:58.540 of the window
00:44:58.940 I reckon
00:45:00.860 apparently
00:45:01.960 that's where
00:45:02.600 we're going
00:45:03.140 I think
00:45:04.040 religion left 0.71
00:45:05.060 and the big
00:45:06.680 gaping void
00:45:07.700 that it's left
00:45:08.740 is being filled
00:45:09.540 with narcissistic
00:45:10.960 desires
00:45:11.820 I think that's
00:45:13.440 and I'm an
00:45:13.880 atheist
00:45:14.140 I'm a gold star
00:45:15.120 atheist
00:45:15.420 I've never
00:45:16.120 believed in
00:45:16.860 God at all
00:45:17.960 but I do
00:45:19.200 think I'm
00:45:19.820 very lucky
00:45:20.400 to have been
00:45:21.180 born in a
00:45:21.720 country where
00:45:22.440 the themes
00:45:24.260 of Christian
00:45:25.940 moral thinking
00:45:27.020 were still
00:45:27.520 running through
00:45:28.300 our education
00:45:29.660 system
00:45:30.320 whereas now
00:45:31.400 it's really
00:45:32.300 weird on the
00:45:32.860 left isn't it
00:45:33.420 because
00:45:33.760 they'll really
00:45:35.280 go for
00:45:35.780 Christians
00:45:36.240 but not
00:45:36.960 other religions
00:45:37.540 which I
00:45:37.980 would argue
00:45:38.600 were maybe
00:45:39.540 much more
00:45:40.220 problematic
00:45:40.760 than Christianity 0.99
00:45:42.200 much more
00:45:43.040 prescriptive
00:45:43.740 much more
00:45:44.360 sexist
00:45:45.080 and it's
00:45:46.940 just it's
00:45:47.480 really interesting
00:45:48.240 I made a
00:45:48.700 comment
00:45:48.880 well I
00:45:51.300 made a
00:45:51.620 comment
00:45:51.840 the other
00:45:52.160 night
00:45:52.540 about
00:45:53.100 I think
00:45:54.840 I might
00:45:55.200 have even
00:45:55.440 been talking
00:45:55.900 about
00:45:56.140 Afghanistan
00:45:56.620 and someone
00:45:57.280 said something
00:45:58.260 about
00:45:58.580 they were
00:45:58.880 American
00:45:59.300 they said
00:46:00.140 something
00:46:00.500 about
00:46:00.960 their
00:46:01.900 country
00:46:02.220 was really
00:46:02.580 bad
00:46:02.840 on abortion
00:46:04.080 as if it
00:46:04.840 was comparable
00:46:05.420 I was like
00:46:05.880 well find
00:46:07.040 me a
00:46:07.640 Christian
00:46:08.240 government
00:46:09.120 that is
00:46:10.140 controlling
00:46:11.500 a country
00:46:12.140 and stopping
00:46:13.220 women from
00:46:14.260 being able
00:46:14.780 to have
00:46:15.060 jobs
00:46:15.400 and I'm
00:46:15.760 going to
00:46:15.960 agree with
00:46:16.480 you 100%
00:46:17.380 but
00:46:18.260 America
00:46:19.620 well it's
00:46:20.040 a republic
00:46:20.500 but it's
00:46:20.940 like a
00:46:21.240 democratic
00:46:21.680 republic
00:46:22.160 and they've
00:46:23.100 decided in
00:46:23.780 some places
00:46:24.480 I totally
00:46:25.460 don't agree
00:46:26.100 but they've
00:46:27.420 decided in
00:46:28.140 some places
00:46:28.780 that they
00:46:29.240 don't want
00:46:29.860 people to
00:46:30.320 have access
00:46:30.800 to abortion
00:46:31.400 past a
00:46:31.980 certain point
00:46:32.520 I don't
00:46:33.720 think that
00:46:34.160 is barbarism
00:46:35.040 I think
00:46:35.560 they're
00:46:35.780 totally wrong
00:46:36.620 and I
00:46:37.000 think they
00:46:37.300 need to
00:46:37.660 win the
00:46:38.080 argument
00:46:38.420 properly
00:46:38.920 in those
00:46:40.320 places
00:46:40.760 but that
00:46:41.800 is what
00:46:42.260 democracy
00:46:43.320 is about
00:46:43.840 it's not
00:46:44.200 always about
00:46:44.700 doing the
00:46:45.080 things that
00:46:45.440 are right
00:46:45.860 or that
00:46:46.160 you totally
00:46:46.900 agree with
00:46:47.460 it's about
00:46:47.980 the will
00:46:49.440 of the
00:46:49.680 people
00:46:50.020 to me
00:46:51.840 a large
00:46:52.840 part of
00:46:53.380 the problem
00:46:53.920 comes from
00:46:54.880 feminism
00:46:55.380 itself
00:46:55.980 Anton get
00:46:59.520 the smelling
00:46:59.960 salt
00:47:00.320 we tried to
00:47:03.700 have this
00:47:04.000 conversation last
00:47:04.820 time if you
00:47:05.240 remember
00:47:05.600 yeah
00:47:05.980 because
00:47:06.680 she called
00:47:08.060 me an
00:47:08.280 MRA
00:47:08.640 pretty much
00:47:09.560 that was
00:47:10.720 my jokes
00:47:11.520 but you
00:47:13.860 look at
00:47:14.520 a lot
00:47:15.060 of what
00:47:15.520 feminism
00:47:16.040 should be
00:47:16.580 standing up
00:47:17.120 for
00:47:17.320 is standing
00:47:17.740 up for
00:47:18.060 women 1.00
00:47:18.320 and they
00:47:19.920 don't seem
00:47:20.380 to be
00:47:20.740 like you see
00:47:21.540 what's happening
00:47:22.160 in Afghanistan
00:47:22.860 where are the
00:47:24.800 feminists up in 0.57
00:47:25.480 arms about the
00:47:26.180 treatment of
00:47:26.600 women 1.00
00:47:26.820 where are they
00:47:28.000 commenting
00:47:28.360 you know
00:47:29.120 they will
00:47:30.280 absolutely
00:47:30.860 lambast 0.97
00:47:31.540 and I don't
00:47:32.320 know enough
00:47:32.640 about the
00:47:33.000 issue
00:47:33.220 about what's
00:47:35.360 happening in
00:47:35.820 America
00:47:36.180 America
00:47:36.280 but they
00:47:37.220 won't
00:47:37.660 criticise
00:47:38.180 Islam
00:47:38.540 no I know
00:47:39.840 and you go
00:47:40.660 well hang on
00:47:41.320 a second
00:47:41.760 what is it
00:47:42.720 only white 0.96
00:47:43.380 women that 1.00
00:47:43.900 you care
00:47:44.180 about
00:47:44.380 or western
00:47:44.820 women 1.00
00:47:45.120 oh no
00:47:46.220 there's
00:47:46.460 cultural
00:47:46.860 relativism
00:47:47.540 so if it's
00:47:48.080 happening in
00:47:48.600 another culture
00:47:49.860 then you can't
00:47:51.080 comment so
00:47:51.700 if somebody's
00:47:52.700 getting their 0.99
00:47:53.160 genitals 0.99
00:47:53.580 completely 0.57
00:47:54.140 sliced off
00:47:55.060 in another 0.61
00:47:55.580 country
00:47:56.000 you shouldn't
00:47:56.560 really talk
00:47:56.980 about that
00:47:57.500 somebody
00:47:58.400 I had a
00:47:59.360 discussion
00:47:59.880 with somebody
00:48:00.360 the other
00:48:00.600 day online
00:48:01.160 and she
00:48:03.420 totally lost
00:48:04.020 the argument
00:48:04.400 but it was
00:48:04.840 very funny
00:48:05.440 so I was
00:48:06.640 sort of
00:48:06.920 trying to
00:48:07.280 say look
00:48:07.640 I know
00:48:07.960 you don't
00:48:08.260 agree with
00:48:08.580 me
00:48:08.680 I really
00:48:09.040 respect the
00:48:09.540 fact that
00:48:09.760 you'll talk
00:48:10.180 because I'm
00:48:10.560 trying to
00:48:10.920 understand why
00:48:11.800 anybody would
00:48:12.360 think it's
00:48:12.720 all right for
00:48:13.200 a child age
00:48:13.880 four to
00:48:15.220 call themselves
00:48:15.940 the opposite
00:48:16.340 sex like 0.98
00:48:16.960 where you think
00:48:17.660 that goes
00:48:18.200 what you think
00:48:18.800 the harms
00:48:19.200 are blah blah
00:48:19.680 blah and
00:48:20.580 she said well
00:48:21.040 you know
00:48:21.860 different people
00:48:22.520 make different
00:48:23.020 life choices
00:48:23.640 in some countries
00:48:25.060 there's child
00:48:25.640 marriage but
00:48:26.700 in some countries
00:48:29.060 there's child
00:48:29.680 marriage but
00:48:30.300 you know
00:48:30.900 culturally that's
00:48:32.120 not okay here
00:48:32.900 and I was like
00:48:33.320 have you just
00:48:34.120 said it's all
00:48:34.800 right that
00:48:35.320 there's child
00:48:35.940 marriage and
00:48:37.200 she said well
00:48:38.120 I'm just saying
00:48:38.660 people make
00:48:39.120 different choices
00:48:39.700 I went what
00:48:40.560 child has made
00:48:41.580 that that
00:48:42.480 choice I was
00:48:43.820 like look you've
00:48:44.660 lost the argument
00:48:45.140 let's just move
00:48:45.760 past that bit
00:48:46.380 because I still
00:48:46.820 wouldn't understand
00:48:47.380 but yeah there
00:48:48.700 are there are
00:48:50.320 people that talk
00:48:51.420 in those terms
00:48:52.300 so do do
00:48:54.520 feminists care 1.00
00:48:55.600 well it depends
00:48:56.740 what sort of
00:48:57.160 feminists but do 1.00
00:48:57.980 feminists care about 1.00
00:48:58.880 Afghanistan there
00:49:00.060 have been some
00:49:00.680 radical feminists 0.95
00:49:01.520 about 30 of them
00:49:02.400 who rescued
00:49:02.940 quite a lot
00:49:03.440 of women
00:49:03.840 and so I do
00:49:06.720 think they care
00:49:07.580 it's a bit like
00:49:09.380 Qatar with the 0.94
00:49:10.920 football
00:49:11.200 are they going
00:49:11.720 to take the
00:49:12.080 knee for all
00:49:12.740 the slaves that 0.77
00:49:13.340 died building
00:49:13.960 the stadium 0.83
00:49:15.620 will they take
00:49:16.460 the knee there
00:49:17.040 or is it only
00:49:17.480 historical slavery
00:49:19.420 that we need to
00:49:20.020 care about
00:49:20.580 it's all this
00:49:22.600 nonsense
00:49:23.240 like there's
00:49:24.260 people fishing
00:49:25.320 for prawns
00:49:26.240 in Thailand
00:49:26.820 where what they
00:49:27.980 do is they
00:49:28.500 take a load of
00:49:29.180 people and
00:49:29.540 they'll chuck
00:49:30.040 one person
00:49:30.940 off right at
00:49:32.120 the beginning
00:49:32.480 of the trip
00:49:33.200 so everybody
00:49:33.720 just does
00:49:34.220 exactly as
00:49:34.740 they're told
00:49:35.180 you know
00:49:36.160 there's modern
00:49:36.800 slavery that
00:49:37.720 totally dwarfs
00:49:38.920 historical slavery
00:49:40.340 but we don't
00:49:41.600 nobody's talking
00:49:42.280 about that
00:49:42.900 it's so
00:49:45.220 let's go back
00:49:46.380 to the origins
00:49:47.760 of feminism
00:49:48.460 do I think
00:49:50.160 feminism has a 1.00
00:49:51.100 part to play
00:49:51.900 yes I probably
00:49:53.660 do
00:49:54.040 I think there
00:49:56.680 is something
00:49:57.180 in the notion
00:49:58.480 even with
00:49:59.360 second wave
00:50:00.140 that said
00:50:00.600 men and
00:50:00.940 women are 1.00
00:50:01.220 the same
00:50:01.600 it's just
00:50:02.000 the way
00:50:02.260 we're
00:50:02.400 socialized
00:50:02.960 so I
00:50:04.740 inhabit this
00:50:05.400 body
00:50:05.760 it's female 0.89
00:50:07.240 it's five
00:50:07.980 foot one
00:50:08.460 I'd probably
00:50:09.020 be a different
00:50:09.500 person if I
00:50:10.100 was five
00:50:10.500 foot eight
00:50:10.960 I'd probably
00:50:12.000 be a different
00:50:12.420 person if I
00:50:13.100 had totally
00:50:13.880 different facial
00:50:14.480 features
00:50:15.040 you know
00:50:16.060 I think it's
00:50:17.000 a mistake
00:50:17.780 to try and
00:50:18.880 say that
00:50:19.380 nothing is to
00:50:20.400 do with our
00:50:20.880 biology which
00:50:21.740 then would
00:50:22.180 lead you to
00:50:23.140 the female 1.00
00:50:23.700 brain
00:50:24.200 but also
00:50:26.800 I have this
00:50:27.820 feeling
00:50:28.440 about instinct
00:50:29.260 and it
00:50:30.060 comes back
00:50:30.600 to the
00:50:30.900 fact that
00:50:31.540 I think
00:50:32.840 I'm informed
00:50:33.440 not just
00:50:33.960 by my own
00:50:34.540 experiences
00:50:35.120 but by the
00:50:35.800 experience and
00:50:36.560 legacy of
00:50:37.500 people that
00:50:38.080 have come
00:50:38.340 before me
00:50:38.920 and not in
00:50:39.720 some weird
00:50:40.460 kind of
00:50:41.740 sense
00:50:43.140 not in that
00:50:44.440 past life
00:50:45.340 kind of
00:50:46.100 proper memory
00:50:46.980 but in the
00:50:47.520 way that
00:50:47.880 humans know
00:50:48.740 to clench
00:50:49.900 their fists
00:50:50.600 when they're
00:50:52.300 tiny babies
00:50:52.980 you know if
00:50:53.320 you do that
00:50:53.700 to a baby
00:50:54.140 they'll clench
00:50:54.800 their fist
00:50:55.260 these little
00:50:56.020 puppies I've
00:50:56.540 got at home
00:50:56.920 at the moment
00:50:57.400 they basically
00:50:58.540 swim around
00:50:59.420 and they know
00:51:00.500 how to root
00:51:01.120 to make sure
00:51:01.600 that they can
00:51:02.020 feed
00:51:02.320 and so to
00:51:03.380 say that
00:51:03.780 we're not
00:51:04.160 born with
00:51:04.840 other legacy
00:51:05.720 of behaviours
00:51:06.580 that may be
00:51:07.300 directly correlated
00:51:08.420 with our sex 0.74
00:51:09.280 I don't think
00:51:10.660 that's like the
00:51:11.400 most preposterous
00:51:12.280 idea I've ever
00:51:13.200 had
00:51:13.500 no I don't
00:51:14.320 think it is
00:51:14.860 and I don't
00:51:16.120 want to be in
00:51:16.660 this place
00:51:17.080 I don't want
00:51:17.480 to be this
00:51:17.880 person going
00:51:18.500 yeah we need
00:51:19.020 to go
00:51:19.300 or whatever
00:51:19.940 but here's
00:51:21.720 another question
00:51:22.320 which is difficult
00:51:23.140 for I think
00:51:23.860 for feminism
00:51:24.680 and you're
00:51:25.180 not part
00:51:26.020 of that
00:51:26.320 movement
00:51:26.700 but what
00:51:28.440 about gender
00:51:28.980 stereotypes
00:51:29.660 right
00:51:30.300 because how
00:51:32.980 much of that
00:51:33.560 is biological
00:51:34.260 right
00:51:35.280 how much
00:51:36.080 of that
00:51:36.540 ought to
00:51:37.440 be encouraged
00:51:38.240 to facilitate
00:51:39.340 a normal
00:51:40.500 quote unquote
00:51:41.080 woman or a
00:51:41.900 normal quote
00:51:42.460 unquote man
00:51:43.040 functioning in
00:51:44.080 society
00:51:44.520 because if
00:51:45.840 you encourage
00:51:46.580 men to
00:51:47.100 behave in
00:51:47.680 ways that
00:51:49.560 are suitable
00:51:50.420 for men
00:51:51.180 in the society
00:51:52.060 that you exist
00:51:52.780 you're making
00:51:53.580 their life
00:51:54.000 easier
00:51:54.440 right
00:51:55.200 if you
00:51:55.980 encourage
00:51:56.440 women to 1.00
00:51:57.440 behave in
00:51:57.960 ways that
00:51:59.120 help them
00:52:00.660 navigate the
00:52:01.480 society that
00:52:02.120 we live in
00:52:02.680 well you are
00:52:03.360 indoctrinating them
00:52:04.300 with certain
00:52:04.820 ideas about
00:52:05.540 right and wrong
00:52:06.240 and how do you
00:52:06.760 behave and what
00:52:07.860 you wear sometimes
00:52:08.940 and all of that
00:52:09.600 stuff do we
00:52:11.200 throw all of that
00:52:11.840 out of the window
00:52:12.340 or do we need
00:52:13.000 a bit of that
00:52:13.560 that's the question
00:52:15.300 isn't it
00:52:15.840 well I'm a
00:52:16.440 heterosexual woman
00:52:17.240 so I quite like
00:52:18.320 to be well I
00:52:20.180 don't know if I
00:52:21.060 do that anymore
00:52:21.700 but I quite like
00:52:22.700 to be attracted
00:52:23.260 to the opposite
00:52:23.840 sex and to
00:52:25.420 say there's
00:52:27.640 loads of modern
00:52:28.280 things that people
00:52:29.000 say is a proof
00:52:29.860 that they're men
00:52:30.660 and women and 1.00
00:52:31.320 it's biological
00:52:32.120 but loads of
00:52:33.300 the things that
00:52:33.780 they would use
00:52:34.360 to prove that
00:52:35.000 then they can't
00:52:36.840 be biological
00:52:37.340 because years
00:52:39.040 and years ago
00:52:39.600 those things
00:52:40.460 didn't exist
00:52:41.200 but do I think
00:52:43.460 my husband and
00:52:44.060 I are fundamentally
00:52:44.960 different yes
00:52:46.080 my hypothalamus
00:52:47.880 when I was
00:52:48.880 pregnant with
00:52:49.340 babies and then
00:52:50.040 had a baby
00:52:50.660 if my baby
00:52:52.500 woke up in
00:52:53.040 the middle
00:52:53.220 of the night
00:52:53.660 I woke up
00:52:54.640 before my baby
00:52:55.620 before I could
00:52:56.180 hear my baby
00:52:56.880 I was awake
00:52:57.520 because I'm
00:52:58.140 somehow connected
00:52:58.920 because I don't
00:52:59.800 know I'm a
00:53:00.660 mammal
00:53:01.020 that's supposed
00:53:02.280 to keep their
00:53:02.860 baby alive
00:53:03.520 and my husband's
00:53:04.760 role he always
00:53:05.720 felt was not
00:53:06.860 just to care
00:53:07.320 for our children
00:53:07.800 but to make
00:53:08.260 sure I was
00:53:08.760 all right so
00:53:09.260 I could care
00:53:09.780 for our children
00:53:10.400 which makes
00:53:12.080 me a trad
00:53:12.640 wife
00:53:13.120 in short
00:53:15.860 supply
00:53:16.320 and in high
00:53:16.920 demand
00:53:17.320 I know
00:53:17.980 it's so
00:53:18.400 weird
00:53:18.720 but he also
00:53:20.980 is in it
00:53:21.540 we are in a
00:53:22.300 very fortuitous
00:53:23.140 position that I
00:53:23.840 could stay home
00:53:24.500 and look after
00:53:24.920 my children
00:53:25.400 which is not
00:53:25.960 something that
00:53:26.540 many women
00:53:26.940 can do
00:53:27.380 and I would
00:53:28.200 like to see
00:53:28.780 more women 0.98
00:53:29.600 have a genuine
00:53:30.320 choice to do
00:53:31.080 that if they
00:53:31.600 wish
00:53:31.900 I don't see
00:53:32.700 the reason
00:53:33.060 that we should
00:53:33.540 send a woman 1.00
00:53:34.040 back to Tesco's
00:53:35.040 to sack shelves
00:53:36.200 to pay somebody
00:53:38.020 else crappy wages
00:53:39.140 to look after
00:53:39.720 her child
00:53:40.260 while she earns
00:53:41.240 crappy wages
00:53:42.060 I think the
00:53:42.460 government
00:53:42.660 should pay
00:53:43.020 women 1.00
00:53:43.300 to stay
00:53:44.080 at home
00:53:44.420 or tax
00:53:45.060 breaks
00:53:45.460 somehow
00:53:45.880 something
00:53:46.500 I certainly
00:53:48.060 don't want
00:53:48.420 the state
00:53:48.760 any more
00:53:49.140 involved
00:53:49.460 than it
00:53:49.680 is
00:53:50.360 I'm a little
00:53:53.380 bit different
00:53:54.000 what I'm
00:53:55.140 getting at
00:53:55.800 is
00:53:56.180 if we're
00:53:58.340 talking about
00:53:59.100 sort of like
00:53:59.920 the pendulum
00:54:00.540 not swinging
00:54:01.240 too far
00:54:01.940 I wonder
00:54:03.380 whether
00:54:03.880 an element
00:54:04.940 of gender
00:54:05.580 stereotype
00:54:06.200 teaching children
00:54:07.480 well you're a
00:54:08.180 boy this is
00:54:08.700 what you do
00:54:09.080 you're a girl
00:54:09.600 this is how
00:54:10.020 you behave
00:54:10.520 right
00:54:10.840 I mean
00:54:12.780 is that
00:54:13.340 entirely
00:54:13.900 not
00:54:14.360 wrong
00:54:15.420 and evil 0.99
00:54:15.960 and useless 0.97
00:54:16.600 I mean 0.99
00:54:17.140 give you an
00:54:17.780 example
00:54:18.040 right
00:54:18.300 boys don't 0.99
00:54:19.240 cry
00:54:19.560 right
00:54:20.420 and we
00:54:20.980 now talk
00:54:21.580 about how
00:54:21.980 oh men
00:54:22.540 are all
00:54:22.880 they've got
00:54:23.360 all these
00:54:23.680 feelings
00:54:24.100 that they're
00:54:24.480 not
00:54:24.620 I don't
00:54:25.440 know that
00:54:25.680 it's good
00:54:25.940 for men
00:54:26.240 to be
00:54:26.500 letting out
00:54:26.860 all their
00:54:27.180 feelings
00:54:27.460 I don't
00:54:27.900 know that
00:54:28.160 society
00:54:28.620 responds
00:54:29.220 to men
00:54:29.620 letting out
00:54:30.200 all their
00:54:30.560 feelings
00:54:30.880 in a way
00:54:31.620 that makes
00:54:33.220 it a good
00:54:33.700 idea for
00:54:34.300 men to do
00:54:34.800 that
00:54:35.040 I don't
00:54:35.600 know that
00:54:35.880 men's
00:54:36.160 biology
00:54:36.620 is necessarily
00:54:37.380 geared towards
00:54:38.460 that way
00:54:39.320 of releasing
00:54:39.840 emotion
00:54:40.300 men do
00:54:40.940 different
00:54:41.300 things to
00:54:41.840 deal with
00:54:42.320 and process
00:54:43.180 emotion
00:54:43.720 so the
00:54:45.180 idea that
00:54:45.860 you talked
00:54:46.360 about this
00:54:46.840 we're all
00:54:47.300 the same
00:54:47.860 I don't
00:54:48.620 know that
00:54:49.100 we're all
00:54:49.640 the same
00:54:49.960 even on
00:54:50.340 that level
00:54:50.880 even on
00:54:51.360 the level
00:54:51.760 of cultural
00:54:52.840 teaching
00:54:53.400 of how
00:54:54.420 you behave
00:54:55.160 and how
00:54:55.600 you behave
00:54:56.140 is that
00:54:57.980 you know
00:54:58.400 because as
00:54:59.040 you say
00:54:59.340 there was a
00:55:00.020 point where
00:55:00.340 feminism was 1.00
00:55:00.880 advocating
00:55:01.420 well that's
00:55:02.300 all just
00:55:02.800 wrong and
00:55:03.740 bad and
00:55:04.220 we just
00:55:04.480 need to
00:55:04.860 everyone's a
00:55:05.660 blank slate
00:55:06.280 are we
00:55:07.040 oh god
00:55:08.960 I don't
00:55:09.340 know I
00:55:09.820 like to
00:55:10.280 think that
00:55:11.080 my kids
00:55:12.140 were allowed
00:55:12.680 to play
00:55:14.740 with whatever
00:55:15.240 they wanted
00:55:15.840 my daughter's
00:55:18.960 probably the
00:55:19.360 least likely
00:55:19.880 to have
00:55:20.800 cried up
00:55:21.860 to the age
00:55:22.300 of about
00:55:22.740 seven well
00:55:23.460 even now
00:55:24.080 and I don't
00:55:25.060 cry very much
00:55:25.800 either
00:55:26.300 I don't imagine
00:55:27.140 you do
00:55:27.480 I'm a little
00:55:29.040 bit I do
00:55:29.740 angry
00:55:30.240 but I
00:55:31.820 just don't
00:55:32.440 cry very
00:55:32.840 much and
00:55:33.320 I don't
00:55:35.320 know if
00:55:35.560 anybody should
00:55:36.420 be crying
00:55:37.040 a lot to
00:55:37.500 be honest
00:55:38.000 but I do
00:55:40.600 think that
00:55:41.220 the light
00:55:41.800 and shade
00:55:42.620 of male
00:55:43.700 and female
00:55:44.460 I think it
00:55:46.040 complements
00:55:46.820 you know
00:55:48.220 my husband
00:55:49.040 couldn't fall
00:55:49.660 apart when I
00:55:50.520 just had a
00:55:50.980 baby I
00:55:51.840 probably had
00:55:52.420 to fall
00:55:52.780 apart a
00:55:53.260 little bit
00:55:53.740 when I
00:55:54.620 just had a
00:55:55.040 baby because
00:55:55.540 I was
00:55:55.880 very very
00:55:57.540 very tired
00:55:58.500 and so
00:56:00.580 he needed
00:56:01.060 to be
00:56:01.420 strong
00:56:01.880 there have
00:56:02.500 been times
00:56:03.020 when he's
00:56:03.500 had a
00:56:04.340 couple of
00:56:04.640 issues or
00:56:05.020 whatever but
00:56:05.560 it wouldn't
00:56:08.020 be particularly
00:56:08.680 attractive would
00:56:09.440 it if he sat
00:56:10.460 at the kitchen
00:56:10.940 table crying
00:56:12.440 every day
00:56:12.880 having a
00:56:13.180 breakdown
00:56:13.500 that's my
00:56:14.800 point
00:56:15.120 I'm not
00:56:17.560 supposed to
00:56:18.040 have said
00:56:18.400 that obviously
00:56:19.140 I hate being
00:56:20.060 the guy
00:56:20.660 who's like
00:56:21.400 actually
00:56:22.060 things were
00:56:22.760 I don't want
00:56:23.960 to be in
00:56:24.300 this position
00:56:24.800 but on that
00:56:25.900 hand like I
00:56:26.760 said the
00:56:27.400 entirety of
00:56:28.060 the culture
00:56:28.460 war can be
00:56:29.020 summed up
00:56:29.500 by that
00:56:29.900 meme where
00:56:30.700 you've got
00:56:31.240 like a
00:56:32.420 normal person
00:56:33.180 and one of
00:56:33.620 these like
00:56:34.020 pink haired
00:56:34.600 weirdos and
00:56:35.700 the pink haired 0.98
00:56:36.220 weirdo says
00:56:36.840 to the normal
00:56:37.320 person who
00:56:37.940 radicalised you
00:56:38.860 and the normal
00:56:39.400 person says
00:56:40.080 you
00:56:40.700 right to me
00:56:42.300 that is the
00:56:42.800 entire point
00:56:43.780 there's the
00:56:44.300 entire core
00:56:45.320 of the
00:56:45.660 culture war
00:56:46.160 it's normal
00:56:47.220 people having 1.00
00:56:47.940 this shit 1.00
00:56:48.480 pushed on 1.00
00:56:49.060 them that
00:56:49.920 doesn't make
00:56:50.400 any sense
00:56:50.880 it doesn't
00:56:51.320 work it's
00:56:51.700 not connected
00:56:52.120 to reality
00:56:52.780 it's impractical
00:56:53.640 and it's
00:56:54.220 hurting people
00:56:54.840 the backlash
00:56:55.500 is not going
00:56:56.200 to be nice
00:56:56.660 and that's
00:56:57.140 my worry
00:56:57.620 when do
00:56:59.260 you think
00:56:59.440 that's going
00:56:59.780 to happen
00:57:00.100 and what
00:57:01.800 is it going
00:57:02.140 to look
00:57:02.380 like
00:57:02.700 well I
00:57:03.660 think we
00:57:03.920 saw a little
00:57:04.380 bit in the
00:57:04.880 football stadium
00:57:05.480 didn't we
00:57:05.940 when they
00:57:06.440 started like
00:57:07.780 no we're not
00:57:08.640 going to have
00:57:09.020 you kneeling
00:57:09.660 like we're
00:57:10.300 not racist
00:57:10.800 we've solved
00:57:12.500 we've solved
00:57:12.520 that
00:57:12.960 like you know
00:57:14.580 so I mean
00:57:16.140 maybe there
00:57:16.500 still is racism
00:57:17.260 in football
00:57:17.740 I don't go
00:57:18.240 to football
00:57:18.620 matches
00:57:18.940 I don't
00:57:19.400 know
00:57:19.620 but I
00:57:20.020 can't imagine
00:57:20.700 that too
00:57:21.300 many people
00:57:21.700 have much
00:57:22.180 tolerance
00:57:22.720 for racial
00:57:23.660 abuse
00:57:24.820 in the
00:57:25.800 stands
00:57:26.140 so I think
00:57:27.580 it's coming
00:57:28.080 I think people
00:57:29.160 are really
00:57:29.660 beginning to
00:57:30.220 have enough
00:57:30.720 but I think
00:57:32.180 it's going to
00:57:32.460 get so much
00:57:32.940 worse
00:57:33.420 before that
00:57:34.300 backlash
00:57:34.680 comes
00:57:35.300 and I think
00:57:37.500 people will
00:57:37.940 start joining
00:57:38.760 people will
00:57:39.400 start all the
00:57:40.280 things that
00:57:40.640 we're supposed
00:57:41.040 to fear
00:57:41.460 we're supposed
00:57:41.860 to think
00:57:42.200 the biggest
00:57:42.640 threat in
00:57:43.000 this country
00:57:43.460 is the
00:57:44.220 far right
00:57:44.840 I mean
00:57:45.680 I've yet
00:57:46.180 to really
00:57:46.600 see them
00:57:47.140 for these
00:57:48.000 remarkably
00:57:48.640 visible
00:57:49.200 powerful
00:57:49.820 men
00:57:50.820 that are
00:57:52.540 patrolling
00:57:52.980 our streets
00:57:53.620 I don't
00:57:54.100 think that
00:57:54.660 is the
00:57:55.280 biggest
00:57:55.540 threat
00:57:55.980 to this
00:57:56.740 country
00:57:57.000 I think
00:57:57.240 the biggest
00:57:57.540 threat
00:57:57.780 is lies
00:57:58.600 and dishonesty
00:57:59.880 and a
00:58:00.900 lack of
00:58:01.340 reality
00:58:01.840 or a lack
00:58:02.720 of
00:58:03.000 people basically
00:58:04.180 are throwing
00:58:04.800 water in
00:58:05.260 your face
00:58:05.600 and going
00:58:05.960 you're
00:58:06.740 completely
00:58:07.080 dry
00:58:07.660 what are
00:58:08.340 you talking
00:58:08.680 about
00:58:09.060 wiping
00:58:09.960 water
00:58:12.280 do you
00:58:12.980 think that
00:58:13.380 this is
00:58:13.720 going to
00:58:13.900 be the
00:58:14.140 issue
00:58:14.340 that breaks
00:58:14.820 the whole
00:58:15.080 culture war
00:58:15.740 well the
00:58:16.680 trans stuff 1.00
00:58:17.460 possibly
00:58:18.540 because it
00:58:19.220 is just
00:58:20.720 in your
00:58:21.480 face untrue 0.86
00:58:22.300 like as
00:58:23.960 a as a
00:58:24.700 white person
00:58:25.480 I probably
00:58:28.480 can't speak
00:58:30.300 to what
00:58:32.500 levels of
00:58:33.220 racism
00:58:33.660 really happen
00:58:34.700 on a
00:58:34.980 daily
00:58:35.220 basis
00:58:35.760 because it's
00:58:36.780 very likely
00:58:37.560 that I'm
00:58:38.160 not going
00:58:38.360 to see
00:58:38.620 them
00:58:38.800 and I'm
00:58:39.080 not going
00:58:39.280 to hear
00:58:39.520 them
00:58:39.720 so somebody
00:58:40.360 could have
00:58:41.160 two points
00:58:41.900 of view
00:58:42.300 and they
00:58:43.260 could both
00:58:43.740 be telling
00:58:44.280 exactly what
00:58:45.540 is happening
00:58:46.000 in their
00:58:46.320 lives
00:58:46.760 and they
00:58:47.520 could be
00:58:47.860 polar
00:58:48.260 opposites
00:58:48.840 but both
00:58:49.460 would be
00:58:49.740 true
00:58:50.060 yeah
00:58:50.480 men can be
00:58:53.120 women 1.00
00:58:53.420 women can 1.00
00:58:53.920 be men
00:58:54.380 that's
00:58:55.120 it's either
00:58:55.620 true
00:58:56.060 or it's
00:58:56.780 not true
00:58:57.260 there are
00:58:57.840 no points
00:58:58.360 of view
00:58:58.600 there's no
00:58:59.040 two points
00:58:59.600 of view
00:58:59.920 on that
00:59:00.240 where both
00:59:00.700 people are
00:59:01.580 telling the
00:59:02.000 truth
00:59:02.300 and I
00:59:03.360 think that's
00:59:03.960 the fundamental
00:59:04.620 difference
00:59:05.160 between almost
00:59:06.280 any of the
00:59:06.960 other cancelling
00:59:07.960 culture war
00:59:09.400 stuff going
00:59:09.960 on
00:59:10.200 and where do
00:59:11.060 you stand on
00:59:11.580 this whole idea
00:59:12.160 that sex and
00:59:12.860 gender are
00:59:13.320 separate
00:59:13.700 that sex is 0.96
00:59:14.700 one thing
00:59:15.160 and gender
00:59:15.600 is another
00:59:16.060 altogether
00:59:16.860 well I think
00:59:17.500 gender is a
00:59:18.260 big fat 0.99
00:59:18.820 mistake to
00:59:19.480 even bring
00:59:20.640 it into the
00:59:21.540 world
00:59:21.880 even to give
00:59:23.440 birth to that
00:59:24.080 word is
00:59:25.040 it just is the
00:59:26.620 beginning of
00:59:27.320 such a load 0.96
00:59:28.520 of nonsense 0.96
00:59:29.020 so I
00:59:31.160 think there
00:59:32.200 is biological
00:59:32.920 sex and I
00:59:34.060 think there
00:59:34.420 are stereotypes
00:59:35.060 and I think
00:59:35.820 there are sex
00:59:36.440 roles and I
00:59:37.380 think there
00:59:37.780 are lots of
00:59:38.400 things associated
00:59:39.260 with me being
00:59:39.980 female and
00:59:41.320 you guys being
00:59:42.040 male
00:59:42.420 the idea that
00:59:45.100 gender exists
00:59:46.380 somewhere that
00:59:47.780 isn't dependent
00:59:48.480 on those things 1.00
00:59:49.360 is a stupid 1.00
00:59:51.720 stupid argument 1.00
00:59:53.260 made up by 1.00
00:59:54.320 feminists
00:59:55.100 made up by
00:59:57.080 some people
00:59:58.020 in universities
00:59:59.880 but yeah
01:00:01.680 feminist theory 0.80
01:00:02.540 that sort of
01:00:03.120 started talking
01:00:03.820 about that
01:00:04.320 so you could
01:00:04.840 basically take
01:00:07.920 a person's
01:00:09.620 I don't know
01:00:11.500 what is it
01:00:11.980 I mean it's
01:00:12.480 kind of religious
01:00:13.180 isn't it
01:00:13.780 it's
01:00:14.500 so one of my
01:00:16.620 kids was saying
01:00:17.040 the other day
01:00:17.540 sorry I'm just
01:00:18.460 going
01:00:18.660 one of my
01:00:19.680 kids said
01:00:19.960 the other day
01:00:20.480 about somebody
01:00:22.520 who identified
01:00:23.220 and I said
01:00:23.740 well you either
01:00:24.100 have to believe
01:00:24.600 two things
01:00:25.240 you either have
01:00:26.440 to believe
01:00:26.800 that gender
01:00:27.400 is some
01:00:28.980 unquantifiable
01:00:30.120 metaphysical
01:00:32.520 non-existent
01:00:33.640 can't touch it
01:00:34.660 thing
01:00:35.520 that exists
01:00:36.380 in every human
01:00:37.140 like a soul
01:00:38.400 or you have
01:00:40.120 to believe
01:00:40.540 that the code
01:00:41.200 of DNA
01:00:41.640 did every
01:00:42.460 single bit
01:00:43.120 right
01:00:43.420 that did
01:00:44.380 my female 0.88
01:00:45.360 body right
01:00:46.160 and then when
01:00:46.740 it got to
01:00:47.140 my brain
01:00:47.540 it went
01:00:47.820 oh I think
01:00:49.440 I'm just gonna
01:00:50.300 put a male 1.00
01:00:51.840 one here
01:00:52.800 and then
01:00:53.460 builds the
01:00:53.840 rest of
01:00:54.120 my body
01:00:54.440 around it
01:00:54.980 those two
01:00:56.280 things are
01:00:56.640 the only
01:00:56.960 thing that
01:00:57.320 make gender
01:00:58.020 a remotely
01:00:59.260 possible
01:01:00.200 thing
01:01:00.820 and I think
01:01:01.920 both are
01:01:02.320 nonsense
01:01:02.820 and that's
01:01:04.760 gonna trigger
01:01:05.160 a few people
01:01:05.880 it's such a
01:01:11.420 weird place
01:01:12.420 that we're
01:01:13.160 in
01:01:13.340 I don't
01:01:13.960 really know
01:01:14.380 what to
01:01:14.720 say
01:01:14.860 I just
01:01:15.160 find it
01:01:15.580 all
01:01:15.840 incredibly
01:01:16.660 weird
01:01:17.160 and I
01:01:19.780 see these
01:01:20.460 discussions
01:01:20.980 and Mumsnet
01:01:22.340 love to
01:01:22.780 talk about
01:01:23.420 us
01:01:23.860 and us
01:01:24.680 having these
01:01:25.220 conversations
01:01:25.780 and they
01:01:26.180 get this
01:01:26.680 and they
01:01:26.920 don't get
01:01:27.260 this
01:01:27.520 and are
01:01:27.860 they
01:01:27.980 allies
01:01:28.320 I don't
01:01:29.520 care
01:01:29.840 I care
01:01:30.380 about the
01:01:30.760 truth
01:01:31.120 I care
01:01:32.080 about the
01:01:32.800 truth
01:01:33.100 right
01:01:33.620 and the
01:01:34.320 truth is
01:01:34.880 just because
01:01:35.700 you uttered
01:01:36.320 an incantation
01:01:37.200 that does
01:01:38.300 not change
01:01:39.000 who you are
01:01:39.560 biologically 1.00
01:01:40.180 it fucking 0.99
01:01:41.020 doesn't 0.99
01:01:42.140 it doesn't
01:01:42.900 right
01:01:43.400 and doesn't
01:01:44.100 make me an
01:01:44.540 ally or an
01:01:45.240 enemy or
01:01:45.740 anything
01:01:46.040 and it
01:01:46.440 doesn't
01:01:46.680 mean that
01:01:46.940 I don't
01:01:47.200 care about
01:01:47.820 people
01:01:48.160 and I'm
01:01:48.480 not
01:01:48.620 compassionate
01:01:49.100 towards them
01:01:49.720 and I
01:01:49.940 don't want
01:01:50.260 them to be
01:01:50.720 included
01:01:51.600 in as much
01:01:52.360 as they
01:01:52.660 can be
01:01:53.180 I just
01:01:54.420 don't want
01:01:54.800 to lie
01:01:55.220 I don't
01:01:56.360 want to
01:01:56.720 lie
01:01:56.980 and I
01:01:58.300 think a lot
01:01:58.720 of people
01:01:59.040 are starting
01:01:59.420 to feel
01:01:59.860 that way
01:02:00.280 that increasingly
01:02:01.280 living in
01:02:02.000 society now
01:02:03.000 requires you
01:02:04.340 to lie
01:02:04.960 on a daily
01:02:06.080 basis
01:02:06.520 and to
01:02:07.360 accept things
01:02:08.120 that you
01:02:08.620 shouldn't
01:02:09.620 have to
01:02:10.100 accept
01:02:10.500 you know
01:02:11.340 it's very
01:02:13.480 frustrating
01:02:13.980 because I
01:02:14.760 really don't
01:02:15.640 want to be
01:02:15.960 in this
01:02:16.200 position
01:02:16.560 I like
01:02:18.920 to think
01:02:19.300 of myself
01:02:19.820 as this
01:02:20.280 hey
01:02:20.520 everybody
01:02:20.940 do what
01:02:21.340 you want
01:02:21.720 I'm
01:02:21.960 liberal
01:02:22.380 you know
01:02:22.980 in the
01:02:23.660 actual
01:02:24.260 meaning
01:02:24.700 of the
01:02:25.000 word
01:02:25.140 liberal
01:02:25.460 right
01:02:25.960 well
01:02:26.540 apparently
01:02:26.880 I'm not
01:02:27.200 anymore
01:02:27.500 I'm a bigot
01:02:28.620 just like you
01:02:29.200 well I think
01:02:30.300 you probably
01:02:30.640 are
01:02:31.080 liberal
01:02:32.240 I think
01:02:33.220 they're the
01:02:33.700 bigots
01:02:34.040 aren't they
01:02:34.460 to insist
01:02:35.380 to enforce
01:02:36.300 an ideology
01:02:36.920 on somebody
01:02:37.720 is pretty 0.93
01:02:39.000 crappy
01:02:39.860 I mean
01:02:40.760 like the
01:02:41.620 euphemism
01:02:42.080 goes even
01:02:43.020 through to
01:02:43.920 what is a
01:02:45.620 other
01:02:45.860 now we've
01:02:46.480 got the
01:02:46.740 rise of
01:02:47.180 surrogacy
01:02:47.680 as if
01:02:48.040 that's a 0.95
01:02:48.460 gay human 0.92
01:02:49.160 right
01:02:49.540 and gay
01:02:50.920 men in 0.92
01:02:51.560 surrogacy
01:02:52.040 circles are
01:02:52.620 just called
01:02:53.020 infertile
01:02:53.580 because two
01:02:54.080 men can't 0.98
01:02:55.000 have a baby
01:02:55.480 together
01:02:55.860 so they're
01:02:56.660 now called
01:02:57.160 infertile
01:02:58.060 no
01:02:58.860 they're just
01:03:00.060 men
01:03:00.400 and so
01:03:02.220 surrogacy is
01:03:03.040 massively on the
01:03:03.900 uprise and the
01:03:04.700 changing of
01:03:05.420 language in those
01:03:06.100 laws is
01:03:07.040 frightening as
01:03:07.700 hell
01:03:07.980 where they
01:03:08.760 even in the
01:03:10.100 trans thing
01:03:10.580 they call people
01:03:11.140 young people
01:03:11.680 they don't call
01:03:12.240 them children
01:03:12.820 right
01:03:13.360 and so
01:03:14.140 just that
01:03:14.580 little switcheroo
01:03:15.460 you're a
01:03:15.860 teacher
01:03:16.240 we're a
01:03:17.620 teacher
01:03:17.900 but just
01:03:19.480 even that
01:03:19.920 little switch
01:03:20.600 of talking
01:03:21.140 about young
01:03:21.720 people instead
01:03:22.520 of children
01:03:23.200 I think
01:03:23.740 totally changes
01:03:24.900 the way we
01:03:26.080 can talk
01:03:26.760 about young
01:03:27.900 people
01:03:28.300 children
01:03:29.420 agency
01:03:30.300 you can't
01:03:30.920 say child
01:03:31.660 has agency
01:03:32.560 and autonomy
01:03:33.140 to make
01:03:34.000 these decisions
01:03:34.620 and consent
01:03:35.080 as soon as you
01:03:35.560 say something
01:03:35.960 like a child
01:03:36.760 can consent
01:03:37.560 you're just
01:03:38.540 really on a
01:03:40.000 quick direct
01:03:40.820 line to
01:03:41.520 any of the 0.83
01:03:43.000 famous paedophiles
01:03:43.840 we could think 0.74
01:03:44.300 about
01:03:44.620 right
01:03:45.080 absolutely
01:03:46.400 absolutely
01:03:47.460 it's like
01:03:47.880 if children
01:03:48.400 can consent
01:03:49.100 to taking
01:03:49.820 a vaccine
01:03:50.340 against their
01:03:50.860 parents wishes
01:03:51.460 if they consent
01:03:52.200 to taking
01:03:52.840 puberty blockers
01:03:54.220 what else are
01:03:55.220 they going to be
01:03:55.740 able to consent
01:03:56.360 to very soon
01:03:57.380 all right
01:03:58.560 look we haven't
01:03:59.060 had enough
01:03:59.400 conflict in this
01:04:00.080 one
01:04:00.320 the last thing
01:04:01.420 insult posy 0.90
01:04:02.300 go on
01:04:02.560 yeah
01:04:02.720 no
01:04:03.300 the one
01:04:05.240 I'm a feminist 0.92
01:04:05.860 no
01:04:06.140 the one
01:04:07.520 question 0.61
01:04:07.940 you're the worst 0.52
01:04:08.420 yeah exactly 0.99
01:04:09.380 I was going to say
01:04:10.240 he's going to grab
01:04:10.900 you after this
01:04:11.540 don't do that
01:04:12.460 no
01:04:12.780 no absolutely
01:04:13.600 not
01:04:13.920 I'm not
01:04:14.680 left wing
01:04:15.080 right okay
01:04:15.740 so here's the thing
01:04:17.100 what does that say
01:04:18.600 about that
01:04:19.800 what does that say
01:04:21.300 what does this
01:04:22.240 conversation say
01:04:23.340 about a society
01:04:24.220 as a whole
01:04:25.400 god
01:04:28.060 I think it says
01:04:30.220 that we are
01:04:30.720 divorcing really
01:04:31.940 quickly from reality
01:04:33.300 really quickly
01:04:35.120 and I think
01:04:36.600 it's quite
01:04:37.140 dangerous
01:04:38.020 all the
01:04:38.520 tangible places
01:04:39.440 you could
01:04:39.880 have a nice
01:04:40.940 foothold
01:04:41.620 they're disappearing
01:04:44.080 so biological
01:04:45.360 sex
01:04:46.060 what parentage
01:04:47.780 might be
01:04:48.640 you know
01:04:50.460 it's all this
01:04:52.360 surface level
01:04:53.100 wants and
01:04:53.760 desires
01:04:54.240 have replaced
01:04:55.100 rights
01:04:56.380 and
01:04:57.540 concrete things
01:04:58.880 that we need
01:04:59.540 to sustain
01:05:00.280 you know
01:05:02.300 most people
01:05:02.820 spend a lot
01:05:03.420 of their time
01:05:04.000 on their phones
01:05:04.800 not talking to
01:05:05.980 people in real
01:05:06.540 life
01:05:06.920 I think the
01:05:07.800 pandemic probably
01:05:08.720 exacerbated that
01:05:09.740 somewhat
01:05:10.120 you know
01:05:12.220 I've hardly
01:05:13.200 heard anybody
01:05:13.920 talk about
01:05:14.800 how horrific
01:05:16.320 it must have
01:05:17.040 been for
01:05:17.600 elderly people
01:05:18.640 it's bad enough
01:05:19.720 for anybody
01:05:20.120 being on their
01:05:20.840 own
01:05:21.100 but for some
01:05:22.480 people they
01:05:22.840 might have
01:05:23.200 spent 18
01:05:24.200 months of
01:05:24.660 their last
01:05:25.120 two years
01:05:25.620 on earth
01:05:26.080 barely seeing
01:05:27.560 anybody or
01:05:28.080 having a
01:05:28.380 conversation
01:05:28.800 on a daily
01:05:29.320 basis
01:05:29.820 and I think
01:05:30.600 that is
01:05:31.040 something that
01:05:31.620 is worth
01:05:32.280 talking about
01:05:32.940 rather than
01:05:34.100 someone's
01:05:34.420 identity
01:05:34.900 so I just
01:05:36.140 I don't know
01:05:37.960 we need to
01:05:38.440 get back
01:05:38.960 to real
01:05:40.360 tangible
01:05:41.480 consequence
01:05:43.380 led
01:05:44.160 sort of
01:05:45.340 society
01:05:45.760 where you can
01:05:46.880 genuinely
01:05:47.560 affect change
01:05:48.740 in your own
01:05:49.540 life
01:05:49.860 I think we've
01:05:50.700 got to a
01:05:51.120 point where
01:05:51.660 in order to
01:05:52.540 be someone
01:05:53.300 you just
01:05:54.760 have to say
01:05:55.480 something
01:05:56.120 whereas it
01:05:56.760 used to be
01:05:57.160 that you'd
01:05:57.460 have to do
01:05:58.080 something
01:05:58.500 you'd have
01:05:58.900 to really
01:05:59.520 do something
01:06:00.120 to be
01:06:00.480 someone
01:06:00.860 that's what
01:06:01.600 people wanted
01:06:02.140 to do
01:06:02.500 even if it
01:06:03.640 was to be
01:06:04.060 the best
01:06:04.400 plumber
01:06:04.780 that anybody
01:06:05.900 had ever
01:06:06.420 come across
01:06:07.500 or write a
01:06:08.040 novel
01:06:08.280 or climb a
01:06:08.980 mountain
01:06:09.280 or whatever
01:06:09.960 it is
01:06:10.480 but now
01:06:11.180 you just
01:06:11.600 have to
01:06:12.020 come out
01:06:12.840 oh I'm
01:06:13.760 genderqueer
01:06:14.380 what does
01:06:14.700 that mean
01:06:15.020 it means
01:06:15.340 once I
01:06:16.300 had a
01:06:16.560 blue fringe
01:06:17.340 that's
01:06:18.600 the be
01:06:19.760 all and
01:06:20.040 end all
01:06:20.400 of my
01:06:20.960 identity
01:06:21.520 that's all
01:06:22.080 I've ever
01:06:22.420 done
01:06:22.760 aren't you
01:06:23.600 stunning and
01:06:24.160 brave
01:06:24.460 oh god
01:06:24.820 you're
01:06:24.980 amazing
01:06:25.420 and on
01:06:28.580 that note
01:06:28.980 Percy thank
01:06:29.720 you so much
01:06:30.400 for coming
01:06:30.820 on the show
01:06:31.300 the one
01:06:31.660 question we
01:06:32.200 always finish
01:06:32.840 before we
01:06:33.380 do our
01:06:34.140 questions for
01:06:34.680 locals is
01:06:35.420 what's the
01:06:35.820 one thing
01:06:36.120 we're not
01:06:36.440 talking about
01:06:37.120 but we
01:06:37.720 really should
01:06:38.180 be
01:06:38.420 well I
01:06:39.440 think in
01:06:40.000 the light
01:06:40.740 of the
01:06:41.500 Sarah
01:06:42.180 Everard
01:06:42.880 murder
01:06:44.260 I think we
01:06:45.700 really do
01:06:46.220 need to
01:06:46.600 talk about
01:06:47.220 what police
01:06:49.420 serving police
01:06:50.420 officers
01:06:50.860 actually get
01:06:52.140 away with
01:06:52.720 and why
01:06:53.560 something like
01:06:54.340 indecent
01:06:54.840 exposure
01:06:55.400 which
01:06:56.160 I'm not
01:06:57.740 even going
01:06:58.000 to say his
01:06:58.240 name
01:06:58.420 which the
01:06:58.800 murdering 0.99
01:06:59.280 rapist 1.00
01:06:59.820 evil 1.00
01:07:00.320 crap 1.00
01:07:01.520 man 1.00
01:07:02.000 he committed
01:07:03.860 in 2015
01:07:04.660 and how he
01:07:05.320 managed to
01:07:05.800 keep his
01:07:06.120 job
01:07:06.400 so I
01:07:07.480 think we
01:07:07.780 need to
01:07:08.100 look at
01:07:08.620 low level
01:07:10.100 what's called
01:07:11.240 low level
01:07:11.760 sexual assault
01:07:12.640 and how we
01:07:13.720 used to
01:07:14.300 know that
01:07:15.080 that leads
01:07:15.840 can lead
01:07:16.600 can be the
01:07:17.080 first step
01:07:17.800 in some
01:07:19.120 really serious
01:07:20.020 crimes
01:07:20.580 it's a
01:07:22.460 very important
01:07:22.840 point
01:07:23.220 Kelly J
01:07:24.420 Keane
01:07:24.540 thank you
01:07:24.900 so much
01:07:25.180 for coming
01:07:25.480 back
01:07:25.700 we're going
01:07:25.940 to do a
01:07:26.260 couple of
01:07:26.580 questions for
01:07:27.080 locals before
01:07:27.740 we do
01:07:28.220 where are you
01:07:29.220 not yet banned
01:07:29.900 from online
01:07:30.580 that people can
01:07:31.220 find you
01:07:31.660 so many places
01:07:32.540 I can't even
01:07:34.040 sign a change.org
01:07:36.400 petition
01:07:37.240 I'm banned
01:07:37.800 from that
01:07:38.220 so you can
01:07:40.080 find my
01:07:41.760 YouTube channel
01:07:42.620 Kelly J
01:07:43.300 Keane
01:07:43.900 you can find
01:07:44.700 me at
01:07:44.880 standing for
01:07:45.220 women 1.00
01:07:45.440 and all of
01:07:46.700 our lovely
01:07:47.540 merchandise is on
01:07:48.980 adult human
01:07:49.980 female.store 1.00
01:07:50.980 thanks for
01:07:52.640 coming back
01:07:53.020 and thank you
01:07:53.760 for watching
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