TRIGGERnometry - Posie Parker：＂Women's Safety is More Important Than Men's Feelings＂

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00:00:30.780 If you identify and dress and behave and whatever as a trans woman and you end up in a male prison,

00:00:38.020 you would be at more danger. There's no question about that.

00:00:41.520 I think most of them are autogynophiles, right? So I think it's a sexual fetish.

00:00:45.800 I don't think that makes someone vulnerable.

00:00:48.100 It's not true what you said, which is these people just want to be validated as women.

00:00:52.520 There are trans people, many of them we've had on the show, who don't want that.

00:00:55.860 They just want to live their life.

00:00:57.260 I don't think that's true, Constantine. If you have fake breasts and long hair and call yourself by a female name,

00:01:05.440 do you think they don't want to be seen as women?

00:01:08.280 I think they do, but that doesn't mean they're willing to invade your space.

00:01:12.100 They will literally slice the breasts of a 13-year-old girl. They will do it.

00:01:18.280 There's nullification surgery.

00:01:20.560 Sorry, clarify, what is that, Rosie?

00:01:22.840 What, nullification surgery?

00:01:24.040 From the chin down, you get rid of your nipples, you get rid of your belly button, you get rid of any external genitalia,

00:01:32.220 like male or female, and you just have it smoothed except for your pipework.

00:01:37.840 Like, they literally will dehumanise your torso.

00:01:41.860 So, I was even going to go to Portland, which we had to cancel because there were credible death threats.

00:01:48.020 Wow.

00:01:48.740 Do you know who you're from or what organisations?

00:01:51.780 Well, it was all Antifa.

00:01:53.360 There's a man who's actually a famous model with his top down, with his fake breasts,

00:01:59.900 shaking them at women, shouting, saying,

00:02:02.680 These hands don't discriminate. I will F you up.

00:02:07.660 I ain't dancing to anybody's tune. I just won't do it.

00:02:21.680 Hey, Francis, do you like entrepreneurs?

00:02:24.640 Not really.

00:02:25.720 What do you mean? What do you think we'd do at Trigonometry?

00:02:27.760 Annoy people on the internet, cause meltdowns on Twitter, and destroy people with logic and facts.

00:02:35.080 Right, stop stealing my catchphrases. It's facts and logic.

00:02:38.980 I'm just saying, being an entrepreneur is against my culture.

00:02:43.260 Why would I work hard when I could just lie on the beach in a sombrero shouting,

00:02:49.160 Hey, hey, hey.

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00:04:00.980 Ay, ay, ay.

00:04:02.620 I give up.

00:04:04.620 Hello, and welcome to Trigonometry.

00:04:07.680 I'm Francis Foster.

00:04:08.920 I'm Constantine Kissin.

00:04:09.960 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:04:15.780 Well, it doesn't get any more fascinating than the guest we have returning for you today

00:04:19.840 for the third time.

00:04:20.800 She holds the record for our most viewed interview ever.

00:04:24.140 Kelly J. Keene, welcome back to Trigonometry.

00:04:25.980 Oh, thank you so very much.

00:04:27.660 It's good to have you back.

00:04:28.820 As you can see, we're building our new studio at the moment,

00:04:31.380 and you've been traveling in the US.

00:04:33.760 We haven't really had a chance to pay too much attention to what's been going on.

00:04:37.680 Yeah, unbelievable from us.

00:04:39.960 How are you?

00:04:41.440 I'm really good.

00:04:42.960 Yeah, really, really good.

00:04:44.780 So what mischief have you got up to in the US then?

00:04:48.800 So I decided to do a tour, and it started in LA,

00:04:54.380 went up to San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, Austin, and then East Coast.

00:05:02.080 And it was called Let Women Speak, and it really is just creating a space

00:05:06.440 in which women feel that they can speak about what's happening in America,

00:05:10.600 which is insane.

00:05:12.460 That doesn't sound controversial at all, Kelly.

00:05:15.080 It's, I knew I had to do it, because it's the belly of the beast, right?

00:05:23.260 So I was even going to go to Portland, which we had to cancel,

00:05:28.100 because there were credible death threats.

00:05:29.820 Wow.

00:05:30.080 Do you know who you're from, or what organizations?

00:05:33.440 Well, it was all Antifa, but this particular guy was raising money to buy some weapons.

00:05:41.240 Yeah, and we, I mean, at other parts of our events,

00:05:45.780 we had people that you could see had reinforced gloves on.

00:05:52.760 Long story, like a woman got her fingers crushed and broken.

00:05:55.860 They, it was just, yeah, anyway, going back to the story,

00:06:01.340 it's about the numerous women, and we're making a documentary,

00:06:06.940 so the idea is to record the dissent,

00:06:10.400 because the most known documentary against this stuff

00:06:14.240 is by a man who, I'm grateful that he's done it,

00:06:18.380 but it is embedded in part of his other kind of agenda.

00:06:22.300 And I want this to be a women's story,

00:06:25.980 because it's our language that's being erased, it's our bodies.

00:06:29.500 And I know the children is a huge issue,

00:06:32.400 but I don't want another episode in human history

00:06:36.120 to pass us by when it's the story of women.

00:06:40.860 Well, you're an optimist.

00:06:45.440 Damn you.

00:06:47.380 But tell us more about it.

00:06:49.580 So, for people joining us who are less familiar with you than we are,

00:06:53.540 you're a women's rights campaigner.

00:06:55.120 We had you on the show, I think, back in 2019,

00:06:57.860 or 2020, probably 2019,

00:07:00.200 when you sort of very articulately talked us out

00:07:05.880 of some of the, let's say, sort of inherited views

00:07:10.400 that many people have about the issue of transgender rights

00:07:14.100 and the conflict between that and women's rights

00:07:16.540 and the safety of children.

00:07:17.940 So, you go to America to talk, basically,

00:07:22.900 about this issue.

00:07:24.100 Yes.

00:07:24.540 And what happens?

00:07:27.040 So, it's a jump off from the Speaker's Corner events I do

00:07:32.840 every month, the last Sunday of every month,

00:07:34.600 and we started to do them around the UK,

00:07:36.280 and America's massive.

00:07:37.900 So, what happens is, I say I'm going to be somewhere,

00:07:40.500 I work with an organising team, local organising team of women.

00:07:45.840 They get permits if they need them.

00:07:48.220 Sometimes we just do guerrilla talks,

00:07:49.780 which means we just turn up and hope we don't get moved.

00:07:52.060 And women who feel that they can come out do come out.

00:07:57.600 It's not huge in number.

00:07:59.100 But then, I've got my documentary guy with me,

00:08:04.780 and you're just giving the microphone and you talk.

00:08:08.980 There is no political affiliation.

00:08:11.420 There's nothing that you can't say,

00:08:13.200 besides whatever is illegal in the location that you're at.

00:08:17.260 So, you know, that brings with it certain other risks.

00:08:23.140 But it really is genuine free speech,

00:08:27.020 tested genuine free speech.

00:08:30.560 And we don't seem to have that tradition as much

00:08:33.300 in this country, do we?

00:08:35.120 No, although Speaker's Corner's good,

00:08:36.700 but now it's just populated by people talking about God

00:08:38.940 of different varieties.

00:08:41.720 So, we do...

00:08:43.260 I did it because I recognised that women

00:08:46.880 in the modern public square, which is social media,

00:08:49.380 were censored all the time.

00:08:51.420 We just can't talk.

00:08:53.340 I'm sure I've mentioned it before.

00:08:54.720 I'm banned from Mumsnet, Twitter.

00:08:57.160 I can't advertise on Facebook.

00:08:59.020 I can't advertise on Instagram.

00:09:00.940 My Posey Parker account got banned from Facebook.

00:09:03.560 My Eventbrite events have been taken off

00:09:06.580 because they're hateful.

00:09:07.520 I can't sign a change.org petition.

00:09:11.400 You know, I'm censored from everywhere.

00:09:13.080 Kelly, if I am a random person watching this conversation,

00:09:16.660 I haven't come across you before,

00:09:18.240 I maybe haven't come across trigonometry before.

00:09:20.460 What are these hateful things that you're saying exactly?

00:09:24.980 That women don't have penises,

00:09:27.120 that men don't have vaginas,

00:09:28.760 no man gives birth,

00:09:30.520 that women's anatomy is to be named properly.

00:09:35.140 And I don't want euphemisms.

00:09:37.160 We're not menstruators.

00:09:38.620 We're women.

00:09:39.740 It's protecting the language around women

00:09:42.020 and not using any of that language for men.

00:09:45.600 So there's no such thing as a trans woman.

00:09:47.520 There's just a man.

00:09:49.520 There's no such thing as non-binary.

00:09:51.640 It's just a very special person.

00:09:53.220 And so it's that sort of stuff.

00:09:56.440 It's saying that we shouldn't transition to children.

00:09:58.140 So everything that's...

00:10:00.300 Every part of our language and narrative

00:10:02.500 that's being co-opted by this transgender ideology

00:10:05.640 is something that I want to take back.

00:10:07.680 I see.

00:10:08.280 And remember when we did our first ever interview,

00:10:10.800 one of the...

00:10:11.560 We had a lot of back and forth.

00:10:13.600 And I think it's fair to say both Francis and I

00:10:15.740 have come much closer to your position since then,

00:10:17.740 which is to your credit.

00:10:18.680 But also, the one issue that I still feel that

00:10:21.860 every time you talk about it is...

00:10:24.680 Is it not...

00:10:28.780 Look, it's a conflict between the rights of different groups.

00:10:31.800 Is that what's going on here?

00:10:34.280 Broadway's smash hit,

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00:10:45.280 including America,

00:10:46.560 Forever in Blue Jeans,

00:10:47.600 and Sweet Caroline.

00:10:49.280 Like Jersey Boys and Beautiful,

00:10:51.080 the next musical mega hit is here.

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00:10:54.940 A Beautiful Noise.

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00:11:04.940 Right?

00:11:05.720 Yeah.

00:11:07.040 You're not comfortable saying it like that?

00:11:09.000 Well, let me...

00:11:09.560 Yeah, let's leave it.

00:11:12.660 Yes, okay.

00:11:13.440 For the...

00:11:14.260 Yeah.

00:11:15.240 Why the hesitation around that?

00:11:17.040 Well, because I feel it's...

00:11:18.860 A conflict sort of imagines

00:11:21.480 that there are two positions

00:11:23.800 of equal value.

00:11:26.120 No, not necessarily equal value,

00:11:27.480 but just two different positions.

00:11:28.880 And there are some people

00:11:29.880 who hold this position

00:11:30.760 and some people hold this position.

00:11:32.020 Yes.

00:11:32.420 And this group has certain rights

00:11:33.940 that it wants to have,

00:11:34.920 and this group has certain rights

00:11:36.080 that it wants to have,

00:11:36.820 and they're in conflict with each other.

00:11:38.320 So, to make it very simple,

00:11:40.000 if I am a trans man,

00:11:42.160 trans woman, right,

00:11:43.520 used to be a man, transitioned,

00:11:45.260 and I want to go into a women's toilet,

00:11:47.800 there are women in there

00:11:48.580 who may not want me in there.

00:11:49.820 Right?

00:11:50.020 That's the conflict.

00:11:51.120 Yeah.

00:11:51.540 Right?

00:11:52.480 But what I never understood

00:11:54.120 about your position,

00:11:55.200 I still don't understand,

00:11:56.480 is would it not just be a lot easier

00:11:58.880 to say a trans woman is not a woman,

00:12:03.900 which I agree with,

00:12:05.420 but why do we have to be so insistent

00:12:07.960 that they're men,

00:12:09.160 as opposed to just going,

00:12:11.040 it's a trans woman,

00:12:12.540 and it's a different category,

00:12:14.160 and we can talk about

00:12:15.080 what rights they have and don't have.

00:12:17.740 Can we not make that accommodation?

00:12:19.900 Let me walk you down

00:12:20.880 this very friendly path.

00:12:23.620 So, when you use female language for men,

00:12:26.920 even when you put trans woman in front of it,

00:12:29.180 you put that man as a category of woman,

00:12:32.540 and he loses the identifiable kind of

00:12:36.200 everything that comes with being a man, right?

00:12:39.480 And so, that's why we're here,

00:12:43.220 having this discussion in the first place.

00:12:45.360 That's why I just got stopped at the train station

00:12:48.160 by someone talking about her trans women friends.

00:12:52.320 It's because we've confused people

00:12:55.060 by pretending that they're not men

00:12:57.360 and that they are something else.

00:12:59.840 Well, then, they're categorically men.

00:13:03.780 For everything that's important and essential,

00:13:06.440 whether it's their mortality,

00:13:08.840 whether it's their DNA,

00:13:11.580 whether it's their behaviour,

00:13:13.180 their propensity to commit crime,

00:13:15.500 the way they make women feel,

00:13:18.140 they are men.

00:13:19.600 That's why.

00:13:21.280 And what would you say to those people

00:13:23.340 who are saying that this category are vulnerable,

00:13:26.840 this trans women category that are vulnerable,

00:13:30.140 therefore there needs to be

00:13:31.480 some kind of special dispensation?

00:13:33.400 You know, it doesn't,

00:13:35.160 maybe not entering women's spaces,

00:13:37.280 which is, I agree with you on that,

00:13:38.920 but also as well,

00:13:40.680 can we really treat them as men

00:13:43.860 and put them into, for instance,

00:13:45.380 a male prison?

00:13:46.400 Isn't that dangerous for them?

00:13:47.820 See, now we get to a point

00:13:51.260 where I think I don't know

00:13:52.640 if I care too much

00:13:54.380 and I don't know if I agree

00:13:55.640 with the argument

00:13:56.260 that they are vulnerable.

00:13:57.420 I think if you're a man

00:14:00.480 and to go outside of your house,

00:14:03.200 you stick on a dress and a bag wig,

00:14:04.980 I just don't see where you're vulnerable.

00:14:07.520 Let's pretend that I think...

00:14:08.660 You would be vulnerable

00:14:09.860 in a man's prison.

00:14:11.640 You would be.

00:14:12.300 But why would you do it?

00:14:13.720 Do what?

00:14:14.620 But if you have a choice,

00:14:15.900 why would you do it?

00:14:16.720 Well, the argument would be

00:14:18.380 that these people,

00:14:19.220 that's how they feel, right?

00:14:20.660 So they don't have a choice.

00:14:21.740 That's how they are.

00:14:22.620 Well, I'm a woman.

00:14:23.460 I genuinely feel like a woman

00:14:24.780 and yet I'm wearing trousers

00:14:26.060 and a t-shirt.

00:14:28.160 No, but that's not the argument.

00:14:29.340 The argument is

00:14:29.840 if you identify and dress

00:14:32.680 and behave and whatever

00:14:33.780 as a trans woman

00:14:35.320 and you end up in a male prison,

00:14:37.340 you would be at more danger.

00:14:39.540 There's no question about that.

00:14:40.580 Would you be in more danger

00:14:42.480 than maybe an autistic man

00:14:44.400 in a man's prison?

00:14:45.480 Probably, yes.

00:14:46.280 I don't think you would.

00:14:48.140 I genuinely don't think you would.

00:14:49.600 I think there's many vulnerable people

00:14:51.340 in male prison populations.

00:14:52.540 Well, that I'd agree with, yeah.

00:14:54.060 Which is why the suicide rate is so high

00:14:56.060 and the rates of violence is so high.

00:14:58.660 And I don't think that those men

00:15:00.200 are any more vulnerable

00:15:00.980 or in need of consideration.

00:15:03.160 And certainly not putting them

00:15:04.280 into a woman's prison.

00:15:05.740 There is not a point at which...

00:15:08.220 I wasn't suggesting that.

00:15:09.260 No, neither was I.

00:15:10.360 Okay.

00:15:11.580 The argument then.

00:15:12.720 But you mentioned women's prisons

00:15:15.300 or not putting them in male prisons.

00:15:17.000 Is that right?

00:15:17.420 But I didn't say put them

00:15:20.280 in women's prisons.

00:15:22.000 So my argument,

00:15:23.760 and I think it's Constantine's as well,

00:15:25.300 is that this is a very small

00:15:27.440 subcategory of people

00:15:29.100 who maybe they shouldn't have access

00:15:32.040 to female spaces,

00:15:33.140 but maybe they need their own spaces,

00:15:35.420 if you see what I mean.

00:15:36.340 Yeah.

00:15:36.940 That's where I would come as it from.

00:15:38.780 Okay.

00:15:39.300 So you say that, for instance,

00:15:40.700 there are some people

00:15:41.440 who just put on a wig

00:15:42.220 and a badly fitting dress,

00:15:43.180 but there's also men who take,

00:15:45.300 you know,

00:15:45.800 who have transitioned surgically.

00:15:48.400 They've taken hormones.

00:15:50.040 They're not...

00:15:51.320 Are they completely men?

00:15:53.540 Yes.

00:15:54.800 If I bring my cat in now

00:15:56.580 and I cut all her legs off

00:15:57.780 and her ears and her tail,

00:15:59.120 she's still a cat.

00:16:01.120 I agree biologically.

00:16:02.540 She'd probably be more vulnerable,

00:16:03.980 though.

00:16:04.300 Wouldn't you agree with that?

00:16:05.620 Yeah.

00:16:05.800 I think that's a fair point.

00:16:06.760 Well, if I try to throw her

00:16:07.860 out of a small window, yeah.

00:16:10.080 Okay.

00:16:11.600 Let's go along with your idea

00:16:13.220 that these men are vulnerable.

00:16:14.480 I really don't know if I agree.

00:16:16.760 And let's say that

00:16:17.500 I think most of them

00:16:18.700 are autogynophiles, right?

00:16:20.000 So I think it's a sexual fetish.

00:16:22.140 I don't think that makes

00:16:23.040 someone vulnerable.

00:16:24.380 But even if I decided

00:16:26.820 that some of them

00:16:27.760 had gender dysphoria,

00:16:30.020 whatever that might be,

00:16:31.180 do I think we should campaign?

00:16:35.000 Well, I certainly won't

00:16:36.100 waste any time doing it,

00:16:37.100 but do I think there should be campaigns

00:16:38.840 that offer a solution

00:16:41.360 beyond chuck them in with women

00:16:43.760 and let them use women's spaces?

00:16:45.720 Absolutely.

00:16:47.140 Is that what any of them want?

00:16:49.060 Definitely not.

00:16:50.100 What they want

00:16:50.880 is to be validated as women.

00:16:53.160 So part of their whole kind of

00:16:55.100 the rights that I need

00:16:58.040 is to force everybody else to lie

00:17:00.320 and see myself as I see myself.

00:17:02.340 But Kelly, you're talking

00:17:03.240 in generalizations there.

00:17:04.380 I mean, Debbie Hayton,

00:17:05.180 who we've had on the show,

00:17:06.080 who is a trans woman.

00:17:07.160 Yes.

00:17:07.620 She made the point

00:17:08.600 that you're making actually,

00:17:09.900 which is I shouldn't be

00:17:11.460 in a women's space

00:17:12.460 because women would be

00:17:13.960 uncomfortable with me there.

00:17:15.080 What the government needs to do

00:17:16.240 is maybe in this very specific instance

00:17:17.980 provide some kind of special facility

00:17:20.820 where people like me can go

00:17:22.640 because I'd be scary to women

00:17:25.740 in a women's prison

00:17:26.620 and I probably would be

00:17:27.720 quite vulnerable

00:17:28.240 in a male's prison, right?

00:17:29.880 And you know how much I like you,

00:17:32.200 don't you?

00:17:33.160 But I think this is where

00:17:34.900 sometimes people think,

00:17:37.020 and we've talked about this off camera,

00:17:38.480 people think you're angry

00:17:40.160 when I don't think you are

00:17:41.080 or hateful when I actually

00:17:42.400 don't think you are.

00:17:43.800 But when you say,

00:17:45.660 well, I won't waste any time

00:17:46.920 or I don't care about these people

00:17:48.380 or whatever,

00:17:48.980 and you talk in these

00:17:50.420 quite broad brushstrokes

00:17:52.200 and you put a lot of people

00:17:53.780 into the same category

00:17:54.700 and actually,

00:17:55.600 just like in any other group of people,

00:17:57.500 whether it's women or men

00:17:58.780 or trans or whatever,

00:18:00.340 there are people

00:18:00.940 who see things differently, right?

00:18:03.460 So, I'm just urging you

00:18:06.260 to have a little bit more nuance,

00:18:08.180 if you will.

00:18:09.340 Okay.

00:18:10.100 So, Debbie Hayton

00:18:10.940 that you happily mentioned

00:18:12.620 has written about him

00:18:13.720 being an autogynophile.

00:18:15.720 So, he's written that.

00:18:17.960 He also wrote guidance

00:18:20.060 that put boys into girls' spaces

00:18:21.980 in schools.

00:18:23.420 So, and you can find it.

00:18:26.080 I was...

00:18:26.300 No, but let's talk about the argument

00:18:27.680 rather than attacking the person.

00:18:29.720 So, my argument is

00:18:30.640 not everybody wants to,

00:18:32.780 not everybody who's trans

00:18:34.040 is desperate to get

00:18:35.040 into a woman's prison.

00:18:35.980 I mean, most people aren't desperate

00:18:37.020 to get into any prison.

00:18:38.720 Right.

00:18:39.820 So, it's not true what you said,

00:18:42.060 which is these people

00:18:42.800 just want to be validated as women.

00:18:44.860 There are trans people,

00:18:45.860 many of them we've had on the show,

00:18:47.080 who don't want that.

00:18:48.280 They just want to live their life.

00:18:49.720 I don't think that's true, Constantine.

00:18:51.660 If you have fake breasts

00:18:53.640 and long hair

00:18:54.840 and call yourself by a female name,

00:18:57.860 do you think they don't want

00:18:59.140 to be seen as women?

00:19:00.760 I think they do,

00:19:02.160 but that doesn't mean

00:19:02.660 they're willing to invade

00:19:03.780 your space in some way.

00:19:05.560 No, but the person

00:19:07.020 that you mentioned

00:19:07.860 and probably everybody else

00:19:10.700 you might have had on the show

00:19:11.800 who calls himself a woman

00:19:12.820 who isn't,

00:19:13.960 definitely has used women's spaces.

00:19:17.160 100%.

00:19:17.640 And so,

00:19:20.320 I can bypass

00:19:24.360 some of the maybe happy,

00:19:26.180 soft-feeling humanity

00:19:27.720 of some of these people

00:19:30.560 because my goal

00:19:32.440 is to just keep them

00:19:33.980 all out of women's spaces.

00:19:36.100 And I don't know

00:19:36.860 if I care about their intentions.

00:19:38.720 I don't think that's

00:19:39.400 any of my business.

00:19:40.340 I don't care if it's nefarious

00:19:41.680 or just jolly

00:19:42.920 or they don't want

00:19:44.500 to invade women's spaces.

00:19:46.260 Fine.

00:19:47.320 Five years ago,

00:19:48.320 we weren't talking about this

00:19:49.680 because there wasn't anybody

00:19:51.220 habitually

00:19:52.900 using women's spaces.

00:19:55.380 It wasn't an issue for me

00:19:57.060 before, what, 2015?

00:19:58.680 I had no idea

00:19:59.980 that this was happening.

00:20:02.000 But once I'd heard

00:20:03.080 it was happening

00:20:03.700 and getting so much worse

00:20:05.840 and I've just come back

00:20:07.340 from a country

00:20:08.720 where

00:20:10.140 women were trying to talk,

00:20:13.440 I couldn't even get

00:20:14.320 to my own event.

00:20:15.480 The police would not

00:20:16.460 help me get there safely.

00:20:18.440 I was late to it

00:20:19.460 because there were 60,

00:20:20.840 at least,

00:20:21.280 police officers

00:20:21.820 in New York City.

00:20:23.560 There's women penned,

00:20:24.740 caged in,

00:20:25.360 trying to speak.

00:20:26.620 There's an assault live

00:20:28.160 on air

00:20:28.820 where a woman

00:20:29.480 gets her hair pulled

00:20:30.400 by a man

00:20:31.000 calling himself a woman.

00:20:32.880 There's a man

00:20:34.160 who's actually

00:20:34.820 a famous model

00:20:35.720 with his top down,

00:20:38.000 with his fake breasts,

00:20:39.940 shaking them at women,

00:20:41.720 shouting,

00:20:42.300 saying,

00:20:43.300 these hands don't

00:20:45.560 discriminate.

00:20:47.880 I will F you up

00:20:49.500 to women.

00:20:50.160 mine.

00:20:50.720 I'm going to beat

00:20:51.880 your ass.

00:20:53.320 I'm going to beat

00:20:54.300 your ass.

00:20:55.520 I'm going to beat

00:20:56.440 your ass.

00:20:57.840 Yes, I will.

00:21:00.040 I will.

00:21:00.760 These hands do not

00:21:01.880 discriminate.

00:21:03.060 These hands do not

00:21:04.180 discriminate.

00:21:05.320 I will fuck you up.

00:21:06.960 I will fuck you up.

00:21:08.580 These cities are more

00:21:09.620 real than you would

00:21:10.380 ever be, bitch.

00:21:12.020 I got bodies.

00:21:13.920 No man wants you.

00:21:15.660 No man wants you.

00:21:17.340 It's a very ladylike

00:21:20.840 behaviour,

00:21:21.460 like getting your tits

00:21:22.580 out and threatening

00:21:23.280 people.

00:21:24.060 It does sound like

00:21:24.940 Croydon on a Saturday

00:21:26.020 night.

00:21:26.540 I have actually seen

00:21:27.780 that.

00:21:28.860 It's kind of the MO

00:21:30.280 of many a female.

00:21:31.960 But, so,

00:21:34.020 I have to focus on

00:21:35.620 those men.

00:21:38.340 I can't be thinking,

00:21:40.220 there's no nuance

00:21:41.380 to societal rules

00:21:43.100 when it comes to

00:21:43.860 these specific

00:21:44.800 safeguarding safety things.

00:21:46.400 We've made our minds

00:21:47.400 up.

00:21:48.220 We know that some

00:21:49.180 of you men are lovely,

00:21:50.460 but we don't want you

00:21:51.560 in our space and we

00:21:52.520 don't care how you

00:21:53.460 feel about that.

00:21:55.500 It's a done deal.

00:21:57.360 I mean,

00:21:58.220 when it's put like

00:21:59.300 that, I think that's

00:21:59.940 fair enough.

00:22:01.320 I suppose the

00:22:02.200 circle I'm,

00:22:03.320 or the square I'm

00:22:03.940 trying to circle,

00:22:04.600 the circle I'm

00:22:05.120 trying to square is,

00:22:06.520 whatever we may think

00:22:08.000 about it,

00:22:09.020 the fact is that

00:22:10.060 there are trans

00:22:10.800 people, right?

00:22:12.300 And we're going to

00:22:13.360 have to reckon with

00:22:14.080 that one way or

00:22:14.780 another.

00:22:15.020 So, I perfectly

00:22:17.960 understand the point

00:22:18.940 you make.

00:22:19.740 I'm just wondering

00:22:20.840 if given that that

00:22:22.340 is a reality that

00:22:23.220 we have to deal

00:22:23.820 with, if there's

00:22:24.480 another way,

00:22:26.180 a better way

00:22:26.860 perhaps, to rise

00:22:28.300 slightly, to look

00:22:29.720 at a slightly

00:22:30.220 bigger picture and

00:22:31.180 go, what would be

00:22:32.300 the constructive

00:22:32.940 way of dealing

00:22:33.540 with this?

00:22:34.680 You know, because

00:22:35.740 you're, I

00:22:36.680 understand, I'm

00:22:38.980 someone myself who

00:22:39.940 feels strongly about

00:22:40.760 certain principles and

00:22:41.640 sticking up for them,

00:22:42.280 as you know.

00:22:42.700 And when you're

00:22:44.640 sticking up for a

00:22:45.380 principle, it's always

00:22:46.720 very natural to be

00:22:48.420 like, this is the

00:22:49.860 way it is.

00:22:50.720 No, not one step

00:22:52.280 back, in the words of

00:22:53.240 the great hero,

00:22:53.940 Joseph Stalin, right?

00:22:55.940 But.

00:22:58.640 What's my step back

00:22:59.860 that doesn't cost

00:23:00.560 women and girls?

00:23:01.620 I'm not saying that

00:23:02.540 there is.

00:23:03.020 I'm saying maybe

00:23:04.640 there is a step up

00:23:05.760 where we just look at

00:23:06.660 a bigger picture,

00:23:07.820 like the third

00:23:08.980 prison suggestion,

00:23:09.660 for example,

00:23:10.340 right?

00:23:10.960 That's a way of

00:23:11.760 recognising, look,

00:23:13.600 you want to call

00:23:14.220 them men, fine.

00:23:15.020 They want to call

00:23:15.540 themselves trans

00:23:16.160 women, fine.

00:23:17.060 We have a special

00:23:17.760 place where you go

00:23:18.760 if you've committed

00:23:19.320 a crime.

00:23:20.220 Do you know what I

00:23:20.620 mean?

00:23:20.980 And that's a way of

00:23:21.780 not affecting your

00:23:22.800 rights.

00:23:23.640 It's also a way of

00:23:24.500 not affecting their

00:23:25.540 rights.

00:23:25.880 And everybody is

00:23:26.860 unhappy.

00:23:27.940 Yeah.

00:23:28.800 That isn't what any

00:23:30.680 of these people are

00:23:31.340 looking for.

00:23:32.180 I mean, you know,

00:23:32.900 maybe not the

00:23:34.700 campaigners and the

00:23:35.460 activists and the

00:23:36.580 advocates, like the

00:23:38.080 individual, the

00:23:39.360 individual rapist

00:23:40.460 that goes to a

00:23:41.260 prison, maybe he's

00:23:42.660 looking for a third

00:23:43.360 space.

00:23:44.520 But I mean, that's

00:23:45.320 what we're talking

00:23:45.800 about.

00:23:46.100 We're talking about

00:23:46.940 especially prisons.

00:23:48.940 We're talking about

00:23:49.900 people in a small

00:23:51.800 environment, caged

00:23:54.480 in.

00:23:54.800 In America, we had a

00:23:56.000 woman in Hollywood.

00:23:58.420 She called from an

00:24:00.060 LA prison, from the

00:24:01.720 inside, and talked

00:24:04.000 about what it was

00:24:04.520 like.

00:24:05.480 And these men are in

00:24:06.640 their cells with

00:24:08.860 them.

00:24:10.200 And American

00:24:10.940 prisons are pretty

00:24:12.540 tough anyway.

00:24:13.900 You have to do, as

00:24:15.040 a woman, if you have

00:24:16.160 to go to court a lot

00:24:16.900 or you're in

00:24:17.320 isolation or whatever,

00:24:18.880 you basically have to

00:24:19.680 do cavity, they have

00:24:20.660 to do cavity

00:24:21.280 searches, where

00:24:22.700 there's like 50 women

00:24:23.840 at a time, and you

00:24:24.820 have to pull yourself

00:24:26.660 apart, and you have

00:24:27.440 to cough, and all

00:24:29.020 this stuff.

00:24:29.580 So it's, put a man

00:24:31.880 into that.

00:24:32.480 I mean, it's

00:24:33.100 degrading, humiliating,

00:24:34.640 vile.

00:24:34.960 And then, on top

00:24:36.880 of that, you've got

00:24:38.720 a man who will

00:24:40.060 then rape you as

00:24:42.380 an inmate.

00:24:43.140 And this particular

00:24:44.140 girl thought, because

00:24:45.060 she'd annoyed one of

00:24:47.060 the staff, that's why

00:24:49.100 she got a man in

00:24:50.280 her cell.

00:24:51.560 That's awful.

00:24:52.980 Obviously.

00:24:54.140 So, third

00:24:55.060 spaces, yeah, if

00:24:56.900 people want to

00:24:57.480 campaign for it and

00:24:58.140 there's money, go

00:24:59.220 for your life.

00:25:00.580 Just not women's

00:25:01.940 spaces.

00:25:02.560 That's fair.

00:25:03.860 Yeah.

00:25:04.020 That's fair.

00:25:04.880 So, look, one of

00:25:06.660 the things we talked

00:25:07.300 about before, you're

00:25:09.560 giving me the smile, but

00:25:10.860 we always have this

00:25:11.640 debate, and I think

00:25:12.700 people should, particularly

00:25:13.760 people who like and

00:25:14.620 respect each other, because

00:25:15.540 otherwise it's all kind

00:25:17.040 of, you know, there's

00:25:17.940 the TERFs, and then

00:25:20.240 there's the TRAs, and

00:25:21.460 they're all talking just

00:25:22.260 to themselves, and

00:25:22.940 there's no genuine

00:25:23.660 discussion, right?

00:25:25.340 I think it's important

00:25:26.460 to have this discussion.

00:25:28.440 One of the things that, when

00:25:32.260 we went to America, one

00:25:33.380 of the things we came

00:25:34.140 away with was the sense

00:25:35.620 that, on some issues, the

00:25:38.100 United States is doing a

00:25:39.100 lot better than we are, and

00:25:40.600 I think free speech is

00:25:41.760 genuinely one of them.

00:25:42.700 Like, in comedy, for

00:25:43.580 example, the situation is

00:25:45.420 not as bad over there as it

00:25:46.760 is over here, in our

00:25:47.800 experience.

00:25:49.200 People, you know, we went

00:25:50.240 to Rogan's Club in

00:25:51.180 Austin, like, the jokes they

00:25:52.460 were making there, you

00:25:54.220 wouldn't be able to do that

00:25:55.180 in the UK, right?

00:25:56.300 So that's fine.

00:25:57.200 I'm so jealous.

00:25:58.160 But on this issue, I

00:26:00.960 think they're way behind

00:26:02.100 the UK.

00:26:02.620 I mean, we're known as

00:26:03.440 Turf Island here, right?

00:26:05.140 Have you found that?

00:26:06.120 Was that your impression?

00:26:08.060 It's so bad.

00:26:09.520 It's so bad.

00:26:12.440 They will literally slice

00:26:14.380 the breasts of a 13-year-old

00:26:15.840 girl.

00:26:16.220 They will do it.

00:26:17.360 They will do it in Oregon

00:26:18.460 without parents' consent

00:26:19.600 at the age of 15.

00:26:21.320 There are girls at 18 who've

00:26:22.940 had hysterectomies.

00:26:23.940 There's, it's horrifying.

00:26:26.300 There's nullification

00:26:27.040 surgery.

00:26:28.500 Sorry, clarify, what is

00:26:30.180 that, Posey?

00:26:30.800 What, nullification

00:26:31.540 surgery?

00:26:32.680 That means from here to

00:26:35.460 For the listeners, from

00:26:36.800 the chin down.

00:26:37.700 From the chin down, you

00:26:39.520 get rid of your nipples,

00:26:40.620 you get rid of your belly

00:26:41.840 button, you get rid of

00:26:43.400 any external genitalia,

00:26:45.660 male or female, and you

00:26:47.520 just have it smoothed

00:26:48.600 except for your pipework.

00:26:51.240 Like, they literally will

00:26:52.720 dehumanise your torso.

00:26:55.960 But, why?

00:26:58.580 It's progress, mate.

00:26:59.540 Relax.

00:27:00.880 Because they can.

00:27:02.680 I know, I know that's the

00:27:04.100 answer, but I mean, why?

00:27:05.280 What's the ideology behind

00:27:07.080 it?

00:27:07.300 What does that signify?

00:27:08.540 That to me isn't a sex change.

00:27:09.880 That's something completely

00:27:11.100 other.

00:27:12.000 I think it's like an avatar.

00:27:15.060 I think you become an avatar.

00:27:16.400 I think transhumanism is a

00:27:19.260 something that sounded too

00:27:20.860 bonkers a few years ago,

00:27:22.520 and I think it's really real

00:27:23.640 that people are trying to

00:27:25.360 get rid of the human from

00:27:27.960 their bodies.

00:27:29.160 Is that a kind of non-binary

00:27:31.060 thing where you just say,

00:27:32.320 well, I'm neither male nor

00:27:33.240 female.

00:27:33.720 I am this separate category,

00:27:35.320 so therefore I am going to

00:27:36.660 remove everything.

00:27:37.460 Is that what it is?

00:27:38.220 I suspect it is.

00:27:39.600 I mean, non-binary surgeries,

00:27:41.120 especially, well, for girls

00:27:42.100 all the time, they have their

00:27:43.600 breasts removed.

00:27:44.220 I mean, there's such a war on

00:27:45.300 breasts, and they'll just

00:27:46.720 have one scar, like no

00:27:48.580 nipples, just one big fat

00:27:50.820 scar from one side to the

00:27:52.200 other.

00:27:52.620 It's just, when you mix

00:27:56.680 godlike surgeons with obscene

00:28:03.560 amounts of money and a

00:28:06.040 population that, let's face it,

00:28:08.220 it's gone through the opioid

00:28:09.440 crisis.

00:28:10.140 It's not a population that is

00:28:11.640 particularly...

00:28:15.800 Averse to medical treatment.

00:28:17.480 Thanks so much.

00:28:18.200 I couldn't think of the word

00:28:18.920 averse.

00:28:20.120 But they love it.

00:28:22.300 They put their kids in

00:28:23.360 counselling, like at age 10.

00:28:26.280 They are infantile when it

00:28:29.600 comes to parenting.

00:28:31.320 They're losing so many of their

00:28:32.560 parent rights.

00:28:33.300 It's, I went to a rally of a

00:28:36.340 woman that went viral for

00:28:38.200 speaking, speaking at a

00:28:40.880 parent's rights, speaking

00:28:42.820 about parents' rights in a

00:28:43.880 school board.

00:28:45.180 And you had some, I did stand

00:28:47.580 in front of all these American

00:28:48.620 flags.

00:28:49.100 I looked like I was about to

00:28:50.480 announce my presidency.

00:28:53.280 But I went and talked to her.

00:28:54.320 She was great, very religious.

00:28:56.460 But you had her.

00:28:57.580 And then over there you had

00:28:58.660 teachers just talking about

00:28:59.980 their right to have more money,

00:29:01.740 which I know is important.

00:29:03.380 Teaching is great.

00:29:04.800 But it was just very

00:29:05.820 interesting.

00:29:06.380 They're talking about

00:29:07.060 safeguarding their kids and

00:29:09.200 how they want schools to teach

00:29:11.680 their children properly.

00:29:12.840 And the teachers just going,

00:29:14.040 oh, we would just like some

00:29:15.020 more money.

00:29:15.400 It was just, it was

00:29:17.420 interesting.

00:29:18.240 But yeah, the, there is

00:29:20.020 something about the American

00:29:23.980 completely, especially the

00:29:26.520 Democrat, who doesn't seem to

00:29:29.360 be very grown up.

00:29:31.460 You know, they don't even have

00:29:32.640 good holiday for their, when

00:29:34.860 they work.

00:29:36.200 It's, it's a very interesting

00:29:38.360 kind of powerless situation

00:29:40.880 where people feel this weird

00:29:42.920 sense of power with guns and

00:29:45.620 free speech and so on.

00:29:47.960 But for me, it felt a lot

00:29:50.680 less powerful as an

00:29:52.220 individual than it does here.

00:29:54.320 Kelly, do you think in many

00:29:55.460 ways it's kind of the dark

00:29:56.980 side of the American dream?

00:29:58.420 I mean, if you can be

00:29:59.220 anything that you want to be,

00:30:01.220 I mean, that is the

00:30:01.900 American dream.

00:30:02.600 You go to America, you live

00:30:03.880 in America, you, you have

00:30:05.560 this chance, you have the

00:30:06.800 dream.

00:30:07.460 Then surely.

00:30:09.680 Maybe it is.

00:30:10.740 Maybe it says you can be

00:30:11.740 anything.

00:30:12.920 Including, like, something

00:30:15.200 catastrophic.

00:30:16.520 Like, maybe that is the

00:30:17.600 freedom that they've asked

00:30:18.620 for, but the trouble is

00:30:20.740 when, when it's just the

00:30:22.980 money and it's just kids in

00:30:24.740 medicine, like, I don't even

00:30:26.440 agree that surgeons should

00:30:27.620 be, it should be ethically

00:30:29.500 acceptable for surgeons to

00:30:31.460 make women's breasts, like,

00:30:34.180 skin-stretchingly massive.

00:30:36.620 Um, or that you can make

00:30:39.340 someone's arse, like, so they

00:30:41.220 can't fit in trousers.

00:30:42.260 I think those things are

00:30:43.140 quite, um, unethical, but

00:30:45.360 it's kids, it's like, and

00:30:48.560 it's so many kids in

00:30:50.500 hospitals up and down the

00:30:51.920 country, they are slicing the

00:30:53.960 breasts off of these girls and

00:30:55.760 it's, um, it's just butchery and

00:31:00.760 barbarism and insanity.

00:31:02.640 The thing that always baffles me

00:31:05.320 about this is it goes against

00:31:06.860 every parental instinct.

00:31:09.660 Literally, the primary parental

00:31:11.640 instinct that everybody has is

00:31:13.460 protect the kids.

00:31:14.760 I'm going to protect my kids from

00:31:16.100 physical danger.

00:31:17.500 So the fact that they then put

00:31:18.760 them into this system where they

00:31:20.460 become medicalised at such a

00:31:22.380 young age, they get operated

00:31:24.040 upon, non-necessary operations,

00:31:26.160 very serious plastic surgery.

00:31:29.420 You go, this doesn't make sense.

00:31:32.060 This is a kind of lunacy.

00:31:33.700 And these people will have

00:31:34.640 organic food in their cupboard,

00:31:36.920 right?

00:31:37.300 And then they'll rush down to do

00:31:38.980 the fifth COVID vaccine or

00:31:41.240 they'll put them on puberty

00:31:43.080 blockers.

00:31:44.040 Nothing wrong with COVID

00:31:44.880 vaccines, YouTube.

00:31:45.760 Just make that clear.

00:31:47.600 Sorry, carry on.

00:31:48.680 But I think it's, I think it's,

00:31:54.020 it almost has to be on purpose,

00:31:56.660 this kind of cognitive dissonance.

00:32:00.580 Just, there's, I don't know,

00:32:02.960 there's, I don't know how to

00:32:05.580 express it, but there is a feel

00:32:07.920 of, I guess it's the coddling

00:32:12.240 of the American mind, right?

00:32:13.740 There is a, there is a feel of

00:32:15.300 that in many places and the

00:32:18.460 people that don't feel like

00:32:19.640 that are called stupid and

00:32:21.700 xenophobic, racist, ignorant

00:32:23.920 Americans and everybody else

00:32:25.940 is a little bit on board.

00:32:28.960 So I've got a cameraman who

00:32:33.840 didn't really know much about

00:32:34.860 it and he saw Blue's Clues.

00:32:39.640 So Blue's Clues is a kids

00:32:41.280 cartoon of animals and it's

00:32:45.500 terrible, but it's a dog

00:32:47.080 called Blue, I think, and he

00:32:48.520 sort of helps the kids.

00:32:49.700 And there was a cartoon of a

00:32:51.880 pride parade for, you know,

00:32:53.280 preschoolers, because that's

00:32:55.040 what we want for our kids,

00:32:56.340 headed up by a drag queen.

00:32:57.940 And on one of the pride parade

00:33:00.380 floats was a child beaver.

00:33:04.220 I don't think this is a mistake.

00:33:06.320 With a double mastectomy.

00:33:08.200 Two scars, four kids.

00:33:10.060 A beaver.

00:33:11.540 A little beaver.

00:33:12.520 Like, so there might be pandas

00:33:14.380 and bears and whatever,

00:33:15.620 all the characters in this

00:33:16.680 cartoon.

00:33:17.560 With a mastectomy.

00:33:18.880 A beaver.

00:33:21.620 Why does a beaver need a

00:33:23.020 mastectomy?

00:33:23.580 Because they're a trans kid

00:33:25.460 in the pride parade.

00:33:26.560 They're a trans beaver.

00:33:27.880 A trans beaver.

00:33:29.380 Right.

00:33:30.040 I thought it was an interesting

00:33:31.080 choice of character to do that

00:33:33.040 to, to be honest.

00:33:34.800 But yeah, this trans beaver

00:33:36.060 and I sort of showed him

00:33:36.800 he was like, what?

00:33:38.380 What?

00:33:38.820 And then about two minutes

00:33:40.200 later he goes,

00:33:40.840 I checked on Snopes, it's real.

00:33:42.020 I was like, I just showed you.

00:33:44.100 I just showed you.

00:33:45.280 Of course it's real.

00:33:47.160 Like it's, yeah.

00:33:48.420 So they're, they're,

00:33:49.100 they're grooming these kids

00:33:50.720 into this.

00:33:51.540 I don't even know

00:33:52.320 who ultimately benefits

00:33:53.520 or whether it's like,

00:33:56.860 Jennifer Bielek has written

00:33:58.080 a very well-researched article

00:34:00.820 about where the money's

00:34:01.960 coming from and who makes it.

00:34:04.000 Well, there's money in,

00:34:04.980 in doing the surgeries

00:34:06.060 and giving the drugs

00:34:07.480 and everything.

00:34:07.960 And then there's ideology.

00:34:10.000 And then there'll also be

00:34:11.820 parents who, you know,

00:34:13.060 Francis talks about how well

00:34:14.700 this goes against every instinct.

00:34:16.120 But I think the hammer

00:34:17.360 they clobber them with,

00:34:18.340 well, if you don't do this,

00:34:19.220 your kid's going to commit suicide,

00:34:21.060 I think that,

00:34:21.700 and that's how they get you.

00:34:22.740 And actually,

00:34:24.240 even if you know

00:34:25.500 that isn't true,

00:34:28.100 your friends might not

00:34:29.140 talk to you anymore.

00:34:29.960 Yeah.

00:34:30.400 The school might not talk,

00:34:31.980 might do it behind your back

00:34:34.180 and change your kid's pronouns.

00:34:36.900 The counsellors, doctors,

00:34:38.940 everyone,

00:34:39.460 everywhere you look for help,

00:34:41.120 they basically tell you

00:34:42.440 you're wrong.

00:34:43.760 And so,

00:34:44.620 and you can even get

00:34:45.360 your kids taken away.

00:34:46.400 Yeah.

00:34:46.940 And are you pleased with,

00:34:48.040 therefore,

00:34:48.360 with the progress,

00:34:49.080 relatively speaking,

00:34:49.880 that we're making

00:34:50.360 in the UK,

00:34:51.220 you know,

00:34:51.400 the changes to the

00:34:52.200 Gender Recognition Act,

00:34:54.320 the shutting down

00:34:55.420 of the Tavistock

00:34:56.300 and the fact that

00:34:57.140 people are suing them

00:34:58.260 for malpractice and so on.

00:34:59.880 Yeah.

00:35:00.180 We've had a few wins

00:35:01.440 in the UK on this issue.

00:35:03.520 Yeah, I'm happy to say

00:35:04.300 that I've had a little bit

00:35:05.400 to do with some of them.

00:35:07.960 The Tavistock,

00:35:09.260 we put some people

00:35:10.880 in the House of Lords

00:35:11.780 who then started working

00:35:13.020 with other people.

00:35:17.020 That's about as much

00:35:17.840 as I can say.

00:35:18.480 So, yeah,

00:35:20.500 there's some significant

00:35:22.600 momentum,

00:35:23.280 but that's because

00:35:24.040 we didn't let it go

00:35:26.120 that far to begin with.

00:35:28.360 And that's because

00:35:29.080 you had women

00:35:29.780 on all different sides

00:35:31.140 of the political aisle

00:35:32.080 who are willing

00:35:33.520 to speak up.

00:35:34.420 Obviously,

00:35:34.820 the women on the left

00:35:35.480 aren't willing to work

00:35:36.380 with anyone else,

00:35:37.100 but they are still

00:35:37.880 willing to speak.

00:35:40.420 So, yeah.

00:35:41.320 Kelly, on that point,

00:35:42.520 actually,

00:35:43.160 since I am playing

00:35:44.060 bad cop again,

00:35:44.880 one of the things

00:35:46.480 that happened

00:35:46.880 during your US trip

00:35:47.800 is quite a lot

00:35:48.760 of left-wing women

00:35:49.680 who would agree

00:35:51.100 with you, I think,

00:35:51.720 on some of the underlying issues

00:35:53.660 were critical of you

00:35:57.020 for they were suggesting

00:35:59.260 that you were associating

00:36:00.260 with the wrong people

00:36:00.960 and they didn't even mean us.

00:36:02.240 They were people worse than us.

00:36:05.240 So, there was some suggestion

00:36:06.840 that there were proud boys

00:36:08.480 at your events

00:36:09.480 and all of this.

00:36:10.200 What say you to that?

00:36:11.120 Well, I was relatively proud myself.

00:36:12.900 It was great.

00:36:13.840 Proud girl.

00:36:14.920 Yeah.

00:36:16.580 I think there was

00:36:17.620 an ex-Pride Boy

00:36:18.760 at one or two

00:36:19.840 of the events,

00:36:20.600 but it's a free speech event.

00:36:23.280 Anyone is invited.

00:36:25.740 The trouble is

00:36:26.620 that what they want

00:36:27.380 is they basically

00:36:28.280 want me to take the knee.

00:36:29.720 They want me

00:36:30.100 to disavow people.

00:36:31.160 They want me to comment

00:36:32.140 on what women say

00:36:33.240 and I'm just not doing it.

00:36:35.760 I'm not going

00:36:36.540 to disavow them.

00:36:37.800 It's none of my business.

00:36:39.280 They're not anything

00:36:39.920 to do with me.

00:36:40.780 I'm not associated

00:36:41.780 with them.

00:36:42.300 It's a free speech event.

00:36:44.400 I'm not going

00:36:45.100 to start playing

00:36:45.980 the disavow,

00:36:47.220 disassociate nonsense game

00:36:49.180 because then what happens

00:36:50.600 is what if I don't

00:36:52.000 disavow someone?

00:36:52.800 Then I'm immediately assumed

00:36:54.400 to have a proper association.

00:36:56.880 So, I'm just not going

00:36:57.860 to do it.

00:36:58.320 They can basically

00:36:59.360 whistle for it,

00:37:00.260 which they have been

00:37:01.040 for about four years.

00:37:02.840 The most merciless,

00:37:04.400 relentless,

00:37:05.280 vile,

00:37:07.000 consistent attacks

00:37:07.940 have been from women

00:37:08.820 on the left.

00:37:10.200 It's just,

00:37:11.660 I just feel like going,

00:37:12.780 just get a hobby, love.

00:37:14.700 Like, just,

00:37:16.300 if you want to

00:37:17.340 make me irrelevant

00:37:18.300 and you want to

00:37:19.840 make people

00:37:20.560 stop listening to me,

00:37:21.600 do something better.

00:37:22.780 I dare you.

00:37:24.360 Because then

00:37:25.100 I become

00:37:26.160 nothing.

00:37:27.900 But they know,

00:37:29.220 I think they know

00:37:30.520 that can't be done.

00:37:31.460 and that makes me

00:37:33.800 probably sound

00:37:34.620 as arrogant

00:37:35.300 as they loathe me for

00:37:36.700 because I've worked

00:37:38.440 very hard

00:37:39.300 to make sure

00:37:41.000 that what

00:37:41.580 I offer

00:37:43.260 with my events

00:37:44.180 is a genuine

00:37:45.440 space

00:37:46.200 for any woman

00:37:47.760 to speak

00:37:48.560 and men,

00:37:49.880 but mostly women.

00:37:51.620 And I don't think

00:37:53.380 that there's

00:37:54.020 anything more powerful

00:37:55.220 than people

00:37:56.600 just being able

00:37:57.520 to scream

00:37:58.780 into the ether

00:38:00.340 about the,

00:38:01.440 like,

00:38:02.820 insane amount

00:38:03.740 of silence

00:38:04.260 they've had to endure

00:38:05.160 because they can't speak.

00:38:07.240 And what do you mean

00:38:08.060 that they can't speak?

00:38:09.540 Where can't they speak?

00:38:11.000 At their jobs.

00:38:12.000 Sometimes in their own homes.

00:38:13.160 I met women in America

00:38:14.260 who said,

00:38:15.740 how do your kids

00:38:16.880 get on with it?

00:38:17.380 I can't,

00:38:17.840 I can't talk about this

00:38:18.900 in front of my daughter.

00:38:20.360 Like, I'm really worried

00:38:21.760 she knows I'm here.

00:38:24.140 I was like,

00:38:24.440 how old is she?

00:38:25.040 She's like 14.

00:38:25.680 And I was like,

00:38:26.460 you're scared

00:38:27.080 of your 14-year-old daughter?

00:38:30.240 I met loads of women

00:38:31.380 like that.

00:38:31.840 It's not unusual.

00:38:33.000 And in this country.

00:38:34.580 I mean,

00:38:35.280 teenagers can be vicious.

00:38:38.540 But isn't that

00:38:39.580 part of the problem,

00:38:40.560 what you've just said

00:38:41.360 right there?

00:38:41.920 Is that people

00:38:42.640 are intimidated

00:38:43.460 by their children.

00:38:44.800 Yes.

00:38:45.600 And that is,

00:38:46.480 and that is a real

00:38:47.780 part of the problem

00:38:48.780 whereby essentially

00:38:50.040 a child can railroad

00:38:51.520 an adult

00:38:52.160 into making

00:38:53.140 a disastrous decision

00:38:54.680 that is going

00:38:55.180 to negatively

00:38:55.880 impact them

00:38:56.600 both emotionally,

00:38:58.160 psychologically,

00:38:59.680 biologically

00:39:00.280 for the rest

00:39:00.920 of their life.

00:39:02.300 100%,

00:39:02.740 I couldn't agree

00:39:03.260 with you more.

00:39:04.800 I sort of figure

00:39:05.900 my role

00:39:06.640 as a parent

00:39:07.440 is to

00:39:09.940 raise my children

00:39:11.660 to a place

00:39:13.200 in adulthood

00:39:13.900 where they can

00:39:14.620 live on their own.

00:39:16.140 And when they're little

00:39:17.140 you think,

00:39:17.720 I never want them

00:39:18.400 to move out.

00:39:18.900 But when they're teenagers

00:39:19.720 you think,

00:39:20.200 I love you

00:39:22.460 very much.

00:39:24.520 You're really

00:39:25.240 building up

00:39:25.800 to be

00:39:26.440 someone who

00:39:27.440 should leave.

00:39:29.580 And you want

00:39:30.680 that for them

00:39:31.180 because life

00:39:32.100 is amazing

00:39:33.040 when it's

00:39:34.120 your life

00:39:34.800 and you make

00:39:35.820 your decisions.

00:39:36.900 So that's my job

00:39:37.840 as their parent.

00:39:39.160 I don't care

00:39:39.940 if they like me.

00:39:41.420 I don't care

00:39:41.880 if they like me

00:39:42.380 at all.

00:39:42.700 I don't need them

00:39:44.000 to think

00:39:44.380 that I'm

00:39:44.940 anything other

00:39:45.700 than someone

00:39:46.660 who will be there

00:39:48.300 when they need it

00:39:49.360 and will not

00:39:50.600 take any crap.

00:39:53.080 You know,

00:39:53.420 and loves them

00:39:54.360 properly,

00:39:55.720 like any parent

00:39:57.680 I know

00:39:58.140 would,

00:39:58.840 we die for our kids.

00:40:00.640 So,

00:40:01.660 and everything I do

00:40:02.640 I see through

00:40:03.180 the lens

00:40:03.880 of how I love

00:40:04.720 my children.

00:40:05.600 Like that's

00:40:05.960 my whole,

00:40:07.200 that's everything

00:40:07.760 that I do.

00:40:09.120 But,

00:40:10.460 frightened of them?

00:40:11.940 No.

00:40:12.700 Not in a second.

00:40:14.320 No.

00:40:14.660 And the other part

00:40:15.600 of the problem

00:40:16.060 and I'd be interested

00:40:16.700 to get your opinion

00:40:17.440 on this is,

00:40:18.820 isn't it also as well

00:40:20.140 and you used to see

00:40:21.760 it with teachers

00:40:22.320 all the time,

00:40:23.300 they want to be

00:40:23.920 their kids' friends.

00:40:25.300 Yeah.

00:40:26.040 And you're like,

00:40:27.400 that ain't your mate.

00:40:28.360 I know,

00:40:28.720 one of my teachers

00:40:29.320 asked me out

00:40:29.820 for a drink.

00:40:31.560 I think it was

00:40:32.180 probably something else.

00:40:33.260 Yeah,

00:40:33.440 I'm not sure

00:40:34.160 his friendship

00:40:34.800 he was after.

00:40:36.160 I was about 17

00:40:37.300 and he was like,

00:40:37.840 why don't you

00:40:38.140 come to the pub?

00:40:38.760 I was like,

00:40:39.140 ooh,

00:40:39.540 no.

00:40:40.020 I don't know.

00:40:41.920 Yes,

00:40:42.640 well,

00:40:43.320 yeah,

00:40:44.400 I think teachers,

00:40:45.620 maybe if you're

00:40:46.220 in the profession

00:40:46.740 too long

00:40:47.280 and that's the only

00:40:47.880 thing that you've done,

00:40:48.720 maybe you forget

00:40:49.600 that you're

00:40:50.340 20 years older

00:40:51.640 or even 10

00:40:52.940 or the adult

00:40:53.560 in the room.

00:40:54.000 But I also,

00:40:54.940 I mean parents

00:40:55.580 as well.

00:40:56.120 Parents who want

00:40:56.980 to be friends

00:40:57.720 with their kids,

00:40:58.560 they dress up

00:40:59.700 like the exact

00:41:00.560 same way

00:41:01.100 and then they

00:41:01.480 go out together

00:41:02.440 on a night out

00:41:03.760 and you think,

00:41:04.820 isn't that part

00:41:05.600 of the problem

00:41:06.120 as well?

00:41:06.460 That nobody

00:41:06.920 wants to be

00:41:07.540 the adult

00:41:07.920 in the room

00:41:08.340 because being

00:41:08.860 the adult

00:41:09.240 is unpopular

00:41:10.340 because you have

00:41:11.360 to make

00:41:11.740 difficult decisions.

00:41:12.940 Well,

00:41:13.100 and when you

00:41:13.460 say parents,

00:41:14.360 when you say

00:41:15.020 parents,

00:41:15.300 I think you're

00:41:15.600 being very kind

00:41:16.200 because I think

00:41:16.600 it's mothers.

00:41:17.600 Yeah.

00:41:19.180 That's who I think

00:41:20.080 are more likely

00:41:20.800 want to be mates.

00:41:21.600 I think dads

00:41:22.640 can be irresponsible

00:41:23.700 children with

00:41:25.380 their children

00:41:26.080 and often want

00:41:27.420 to be fun

00:41:28.360 but I think

00:41:29.640 it's mothers

00:41:31.080 more than fathers

00:41:32.220 who are going

00:41:33.500 along with this

00:41:34.100 stuff and don't

00:41:34.920 want to be disliked

00:41:35.820 and I'm telling you

00:41:36.860 there's pretty much

00:41:37.860 nothing you can do

00:41:38.920 as a mother

00:41:40.380 if you've got

00:41:41.720 teenagers

00:41:42.460 to make them

00:41:45.120 like you.

00:41:46.100 I think the more

00:41:46.620 you try,

00:41:47.560 the more it fails

00:41:48.760 and those kids

00:41:49.780 need those boundaries.

00:41:50.900 We feel safe

00:41:51.520 with boundaries.

00:41:52.540 My daughter,

00:41:53.240 if I say to my daughter,

00:41:54.680 when you're rude to me,

00:41:56.060 it really doesn't

00:41:56.700 make me feel very nice.

00:41:58.260 She'll go,

00:41:58.980 oh,

00:41:59.420 it's all about you,

00:42:00.900 isn't it?

00:42:02.680 And I'm like,

00:42:03.420 in so many ways

00:42:04.120 I respect that.

00:42:06.300 So Kelly,

00:42:07.220 coming back to this idea

00:42:08.580 of disavow,

00:42:09.400 it's always interesting

00:42:10.380 to me because

00:42:11.020 I always do feel

00:42:12.440 that I cringe

00:42:15.560 when people

00:42:16.200 associate themselves

00:42:17.320 with me

00:42:18.140 or with our brand

00:42:19.440 or what we're doing

00:42:20.260 who I don't like

00:42:21.540 and whose views

00:42:22.160 I think are abhorrent,

00:42:23.180 for example.

00:42:24.180 And I have been

00:42:25.440 quite careful

00:42:26.240 about making that clear

00:42:27.880 to my detriment.

00:42:30.020 It means I've

00:42:30.760 not got relationships

00:42:32.180 with people

00:42:32.740 or I've pissed people off

00:42:34.280 or whatever.

00:42:35.280 And I was,

00:42:36.360 to me,

00:42:37.020 that trade-off

00:42:37.500 is worth it.

00:42:38.960 Why are you

00:42:40.440 adamant

00:42:41.780 that you don't want

00:42:42.960 to say,

00:42:43.340 or at least say,

00:42:44.120 well, look,

00:42:44.440 you've said this thing,

00:42:45.440 that's your free speech,

00:42:46.340 but actually

00:42:46.880 I don't agree

00:42:48.140 with you

00:42:48.400 and I'd rather

00:42:49.080 you weren't here.

00:42:51.400 Because

00:42:51.800 if somebody stood up

00:42:53.560 on my platform

00:42:54.440 and said something

00:42:55.260 that I didn't agree with,

00:42:57.020 then at that moment

00:42:58.380 I might do it.

00:42:59.200 Okay.

00:43:00.860 If somebody says something

00:43:02.280 who's been on my platform

00:43:03.740 as a free speech thing

00:43:05.180 and then they say

00:43:05.760 something else,

00:43:06.820 I don't want to undermine

00:43:07.920 everything they've said.

00:43:09.060 A, I probably don't want

00:43:09.900 to draw attention to it.

00:43:10.800 I don't see how that

00:43:11.580 is valuable

00:43:12.380 for the message

00:43:13.160 that we're trying

00:43:13.640 to get out.

00:43:15.400 But I just,

00:43:17.120 I won't stand

00:43:17.980 against these women

00:43:18.980 who have decided

00:43:21.200 that they are going

00:43:22.860 to speak up

00:43:23.960 because there's so many

00:43:25.360 that don't

00:43:25.940 and maybe they're

00:43:26.760 perfect women

00:43:27.420 but they ain't

00:43:28.040 standing up and speaking.

00:43:29.500 So they're not

00:43:31.260 moving this forward

00:43:32.960 to a point

00:43:33.600 where our children

00:43:34.400 are safe

00:43:34.960 and women are safe

00:43:35.840 in their own spaces.

00:43:37.840 But also,

00:43:38.920 I ain't dancing

00:43:39.740 to anybody's tune.

00:43:41.900 I just won't do it.

00:43:43.640 And the more

00:43:44.400 somebody demands

00:43:45.420 that I do it,

00:43:47.000 I'm just not doing it.

00:43:48.620 I just think,

00:43:49.320 who are you

00:43:50.060 to tell me

00:43:51.200 that I should do this?

00:43:52.020 Oh, she hasn't done this.

00:43:53.140 If she could just stand up

00:43:54.460 and disavow this person

00:43:56.220 or if I can just take

00:43:58.640 that one comment

00:44:00.220 that that woman made

00:44:00.960 on your live stream

00:44:01.720 and I can flip it up

00:44:02.900 and I can take it

00:44:03.980 out of context

00:44:04.560 and make you look

00:44:05.340 really bad,

00:44:05.900 will you disavow it?

00:44:07.100 No, I won't.

00:44:08.400 No.

00:44:09.080 It's not going to happen.

00:44:09.800 It's interesting

00:44:10.260 because that was

00:44:10.980 what a lot of people

00:44:11.740 were demanding from us

00:44:12.760 when we had Sam Harris on.

00:44:15.160 You know,

00:44:15.900 go out and slam him

00:44:17.200 for saying the stuff that,

00:44:18.320 I mean,

00:44:18.600 we didn't agree with it

00:44:19.500 and it was quite clear

00:44:20.220 from the interview,

00:44:20.780 why do we have to then

00:44:21.780 go out and,

00:44:24.100 you know,

00:44:24.780 go,

00:44:25.120 yeah, yeah,

00:44:25.560 Sam's an idiot.

00:44:26.460 I mean,

00:44:26.940 we did an interview,

00:44:27.960 make up your own mind.

00:44:28.880 Do we want people

00:44:29.600 to speak or not?

00:44:30.520 Yeah.

00:44:31.180 And if we do,

00:44:32.280 do we then want

00:44:33.180 to chastise them

00:44:34.020 for everything

00:44:34.480 they've ever said?

00:44:35.900 I mean,

00:44:36.140 I just get it

00:44:36.620 all the time.

00:44:38.440 There are some women

00:44:39.480 that are rabidly

00:44:40.480 obsessed with me.

00:44:43.440 It's,

00:44:44.040 I mean,

00:44:44.480 it's quite entertaining.

00:44:45.280 It's a good problem to have.

00:44:45.680 Yeah, it is.

00:44:47.320 I mean,

00:44:47.960 look,

00:44:48.240 there's plenty of men.

00:44:50.600 But,

00:44:51.160 you know,

00:44:51.660 just really

00:44:52.500 obsessively weird.

00:44:54.380 There was,

00:44:55.100 there was,

00:44:55.260 there was a woman

00:44:56.940 on Mumsnet

00:44:57.460 and it's been said

00:44:58.100 elsewhere

00:44:58.440 that I went

00:44:59.200 to an elite boarding school

00:45:00.400 in Hong Kong

00:45:00.980 played for by

00:45:01.740 my grandparents

00:45:02.500 where I met my husband

00:45:04.360 who was married

00:45:05.120 and stole him

00:45:05.980 from his wife.

00:45:08.800 None of that's true.

00:45:11.120 Just,

00:45:11.780 just really bonkers

00:45:13.400 stuff said about me.

00:45:15.940 And it's by the same people

00:45:17.520 that start these rumor mills.

00:45:18.900 Like,

00:45:19.380 let's say we did

00:45:20.060 have a Pride Boy.

00:45:21.040 So what?

00:45:21.860 How do I know

00:45:22.580 what I know

00:45:23.040 about Pride Boys

00:45:23.860 is even true?

00:45:25.720 How do I know,

00:45:26.380 how do I know

00:45:27.000 anything is true?

00:45:28.480 According to

00:45:29.620 even the New York Times,

00:45:31.740 I'm a racist,

00:45:33.280 a bigot,

00:45:34.140 David Duke fan.

00:45:36.440 I've,

00:45:36.840 I've married

00:45:37.740 Richard Spencer

00:45:38.620 in another life.

00:45:39.780 You know,

00:45:40.000 just all these things

00:45:41.940 are said about me

00:45:42.500 and I know

00:45:42.860 they're not true.

00:45:43.480 How on earth

00:45:44.060 could I possibly

00:45:45.140 rely on

00:45:46.080 information

00:45:47.460 about other people?

00:45:49.360 I'm just,

00:45:50.280 and I'm not

00:45:51.180 going to fall into that.

00:45:52.360 And let's say

00:45:53.580 all of those things

00:45:54.440 were true

00:45:54.860 and that Pride Boy

00:45:55.740 came to that thing

00:45:56.740 and listened to me speak.

00:45:58.320 what harm

00:46:00.000 is that to me?

00:46:01.320 Let's say

00:46:01.800 he's got a daughter

00:46:02.360 who comes home

00:46:03.000 at 13

00:46:03.680 and says she's trans.

00:46:05.440 Maybe

00:46:05.920 all the goodness

00:46:07.500 in that exchange

00:46:08.600 comes from me

00:46:10.180 into

00:46:10.920 him

00:46:12.240 and

00:46:12.800 his life

00:46:14.080 is better for it.

00:46:15.040 I'm not changed

00:46:15.800 because he's heard me speak.

00:46:17.140 You know how superheroes

00:46:18.160 always show up

00:46:19.040 right when you need them?

00:46:20.140 That's what the

00:46:20.700 Connecticut Children's Doctors

00:46:21.900 are like at the

00:46:22.640 Cohen Pediatric

00:46:23.480 Emergency Center

00:46:24.360 at Norwalk Hospital.

00:46:25.360 They're from the only

00:46:26.460 health system in the state

00:46:27.580 that's 100% for kids.

00:46:29.740 The rooms here are bright,

00:46:31.420 there's a giant turtle

00:46:32.300 on the wall,

00:46:33.000 and you might even see

00:46:34.080 a child life specialist too.

00:46:35.620 They're the ones

00:46:36.240 who help kids feel calm.

00:46:37.760 So yeah,

00:46:38.380 let's hope you'll never

00:46:39.260 have to visit,

00:46:40.120 but if you do,

00:46:41.120 they'll be ready.

00:46:42.820 Norwalk Hospital

00:46:43.560 is joining Northwell

00:46:44.720 for a new era

00:46:45.560 in your care.

00:46:49.180 Kelly,

00:46:50.160 let's look at it

00:46:51.300 broader,

00:46:52.140 societally.

00:46:53.460 What do you think

00:46:54.460 this craze says

00:46:55.660 about us as a society,

00:46:57.420 about the Western world,

00:46:58.780 the way that we live?

00:47:01.260 Well,

00:47:01.800 I don't want to say it,

00:47:02.760 but maybe we need a war.

00:47:06.340 Maybe we've just got...

00:47:07.320 Be careful what you always thought.

00:47:08.080 Yeah.

00:47:08.780 Well,

00:47:09.020 maybe we've got too much.

00:47:10.780 Maybe we've...

00:47:12.640 There's a part of me

00:47:13.560 that thinks the collective

00:47:14.740 kind of forward

00:47:16.560 belief of religion

00:47:19.020 and faith

00:47:20.420 and community.

00:47:23.800 Maybe it means

00:47:24.480 the void is filled

00:47:25.340 by something.

00:47:26.120 Maybe we are human.

00:47:28.680 The fact that there are

00:47:29.660 so many religions

00:47:30.400 and creation stories

00:47:32.180 in every single part

00:47:33.200 of the world

00:47:33.660 tells me that

00:47:34.380 it is a human necessity

00:47:35.720 to create answers

00:47:37.240 that we don't know

00:47:38.340 the...

00:47:39.160 that we don't know

00:47:41.980 the answers to.

00:47:43.080 Answers?

00:47:43.680 Answers to the questions.

00:47:44.360 To answer questions, yeah.

00:47:45.500 Thanks so much.

00:47:46.220 I'm very tired.

00:47:47.180 Sorry.

00:47:47.840 I feel like I'm over-helping.

00:47:49.860 No, no, no.

00:47:50.500 It's great.

00:47:51.520 I'll take that help.

00:47:53.380 But maybe that's what we need

00:47:56.020 in order to function.

00:47:58.080 And we've had

00:47:58.820 collective belief before,

00:48:00.140 so there's something in that.

00:48:02.520 Well,

00:48:02.940 those things are disappearing.

00:48:04.460 I mean,

00:48:04.940 I'm wondering if

00:48:05.680 at the end of all of this

00:48:06.680 chaos will come Islam.

00:48:09.300 I'm wondering if that

00:48:10.340 will be a prescriptive religion

00:48:11.640 that people will be looking

00:48:12.660 for something really tight

00:48:14.240 on boundaries

00:48:14.820 because we've lost them.

00:48:17.040 So I think that's

00:48:18.580 one thread of it.

00:48:20.660 And the other is luxury

00:48:22.180 because if you're not worried,

00:48:25.980 you know,

00:48:26.160 a guy doing scaffolding,

00:48:28.200 let's say,

00:48:29.640 he's not worried about,

00:48:31.800 you know,

00:48:32.000 in his moments of like

00:48:33.200 climbing up

00:48:33.920 and screwing stuff

00:48:35.320 and whatever,

00:48:36.260 he's not worried

00:48:37.100 about how he identifies.

00:48:38.340 and so,

00:48:41.700 I don't know,

00:48:43.740 maybe people feel like

00:48:45.600 they need some sort of

00:48:46.480 civil rights movement

00:48:47.520 to be validated.

00:48:48.900 But like Jordan says,

00:48:51.000 tidy your room.

00:48:52.380 Sort your own life out

00:48:53.540 rather than displacing

00:48:55.260 what you need to sort out

00:48:57.380 with some bigger picture stuff

00:48:59.440 that isn't even a thing.

00:49:01.940 And one thing

00:49:03.060 that some other people

00:49:04.120 have suggested

00:49:04.760 as maybe a third thing to add,

00:49:06.340 and I'd be curious

00:49:06.860 to hear your opinion about it

00:49:07.940 because I think you're very sound

00:49:09.080 actually on this issue,

00:49:10.800 is,

00:49:12.260 I mean,

00:49:12.640 even hormonally speaking,

00:49:15.400 society is becoming

00:49:16.360 less masculine over time,

00:49:18.100 right?

00:49:18.500 Men's testosterone is going down,

00:49:20.620 women are much more vocal

00:49:22.120 and present in public life.

00:49:24.720 Now, obviously,

00:49:25.140 we don't approve of that,

00:49:26.060 but, you know.

00:49:27.280 Sorry.

00:49:28.780 But you know what I mean, right?

00:49:30.180 Society is becoming

00:49:31.080 more feminized

00:49:31.780 and you can think

00:49:32.740 that's a good thing

00:49:33.420 or you can think

00:49:33.960 that's a bad thing

00:49:34.520 or you can be neutral about it,

00:49:35.680 but it is happening.

00:49:36.740 Would you agree?

00:49:38.420 I do worry about men.

00:49:43.220 And I don't spend

00:49:44.320 a lot of time on that,

00:49:45.120 but yes.

00:49:45.860 Yeah.

00:49:46.540 And some of the values

00:49:49.760 that drive

00:49:50.840 some of these social movements,

00:49:52.680 they are quite obviously

00:49:54.000 stereotypically more feminine

00:49:55.700 than they are masculine

00:49:56.640 because they're based

00:49:57.860 on things like empathy

00:49:59.500 and compassion

00:50:00.460 and, you know,

00:50:01.580 all of that

00:50:02.220 taken to an extreme

00:50:03.420 where they become

00:50:04.080 quite damaging, actually.

00:50:05.900 And I just wonder

00:50:07.020 whether to some extent

00:50:08.180 the fact that we

00:50:10.080 so prized

00:50:12.020 compassion and empathy

00:50:13.380 to an extreme

00:50:14.860 that's dangerous

00:50:15.740 is maybe a product

00:50:16.740 of the fact

00:50:17.300 that society

00:50:18.140 is readjusting

00:50:19.180 to a new dynamic

00:50:20.660 between men and women.

00:50:22.680 And, I mean,

00:50:23.640 you said it yourself,

00:50:24.340 it's mothers

00:50:24.780 that often behave

00:50:26.360 in this way, right?

00:50:28.100 Are there just

00:50:28.680 too many women around?

00:50:29.720 Yeah.

00:50:30.140 And are they talking

00:50:30.780 too much?

00:50:31.440 have they got

00:50:33.700 too much power?

00:50:34.660 I mean,

00:50:35.620 do you see what I'm saying?

00:50:36.560 Or am I being...

00:50:37.740 I do.

00:50:39.120 It's really difficult

00:50:40.240 as a woman

00:50:41.640 knowing

00:50:42.220 how I

00:50:44.140 go about this world

00:50:45.900 and being a specific

00:50:47.080 sort of woman.

00:50:49.260 Amazing.

00:50:50.020 Legend.

00:50:51.180 But it's very difficult

00:50:52.940 to then talk about

00:50:54.080 the impact on men.

00:50:56.280 I think

00:50:57.080 a big danger factor

00:50:59.540 for men

00:51:00.320 is porn.

00:51:01.400 I think that's a big

00:51:02.080 danger thing

00:51:02.600 for society in general.

00:51:04.100 Let me just get that

00:51:04.940 out of the way.

00:51:07.120 I think

00:51:08.340 it's very difficult

00:51:09.300 to talk about

00:51:10.160 male violence

00:51:11.640 and accept

00:51:13.780 that most men

00:51:14.620 are not going to

00:51:15.560 beat you up

00:51:16.120 in your own home,

00:51:17.200 right?

00:51:17.600 Most men are not

00:51:18.360 going to rape you

00:51:18.900 on a night out

00:51:19.540 if they can.

00:51:21.940 And so

00:51:22.640 these themes

00:51:23.700 that we talk about,

00:51:25.120 it's a minority

00:51:26.160 of men.

00:51:29.180 I've got three sons.

00:51:32.000 I want my sons

00:51:33.260 to be men.

00:51:35.720 And I've got

00:51:36.300 a very wise person

00:51:38.240 I know

00:51:38.640 is a man called Brian.

00:51:40.180 And he talks about

00:51:41.360 masculinity

00:51:42.040 is your sword

00:51:43.480 in your sheath.

00:51:44.660 It's having all the power,

00:51:46.880 knowing that you can use it

00:51:48.100 but not having to,

00:51:49.520 but it being very,

00:51:50.700 very super aware

00:51:52.460 to everybody

00:51:53.000 that you've got it.

00:51:53.840 that's the masculinity

00:51:57.120 that I'm really

00:51:58.060 attracted to.

00:51:59.680 I'll have a door

00:52:00.600 open for me

00:52:01.520 actually every day

00:52:02.380 of the week

00:52:02.780 and heavy things carried

00:52:04.640 because I'm five foot one.

00:52:06.100 I offered to carry her back.

00:52:08.100 It wasn't that heavy though.

00:52:10.060 That's why I offered.

00:52:11.000 I was like,

00:52:11.680 oh.

00:52:12.980 He's like,

00:52:13.740 sure.

00:52:15.520 But

00:52:15.960 I do worry,

00:52:18.500 I don't know

00:52:19.240 if I think

00:52:19.960 that this particular theme

00:52:21.980 is all about

00:52:22.740 men being emasculated

00:52:25.940 because I think

00:52:26.540 it's the height of,

00:52:28.500 I don't even like

00:52:29.500 toxic masculinity.

00:52:30.620 I think it's

00:52:31.420 mostly bull.

00:52:33.700 But I do feel

00:52:34.420 there is an element

00:52:35.040 of real toxic

00:52:35.960 kind of at the peak

00:52:36.900 of masculinity

00:52:37.560 is then like

00:52:38.240 the ultimate

00:52:38.800 woman-hating thing

00:52:39.640 you could do

00:52:40.280 is pretend

00:52:41.160 that you are one.

00:52:44.980 Yeah.

00:52:45.700 I'm just,

00:52:46.200 I'm concerned.

00:52:48.380 I'm a,

00:52:49.120 I'm somebody

00:52:49.920 that doesn't cry

00:52:50.580 very much.

00:52:51.460 Right?

00:52:51.900 I'm relatively stoic.

00:52:53.740 Some,

00:52:54.120 some horrible things

00:52:56.060 have happened to me

00:52:56.560 in my life

00:52:56.980 and I'm,

00:52:57.620 it doesn't break me

00:52:58.460 at all.

00:53:00.180 If I,

00:53:00.560 I think I've

00:53:01.560 mentioned this before.

00:53:02.400 If I had a husband

00:53:02.980 that broke under,

00:53:04.460 I wouldn't like that.

00:53:05.840 No.

00:53:06.180 But then I'm not

00:53:06.780 going to break.

00:53:07.360 No.

00:53:08.020 I get,

00:53:08.960 what I'm getting at

00:53:10.380 is,

00:53:11.620 it's a difficult

00:53:13.420 one to discuss

00:53:14.120 and it's difficult

00:53:14.740 for you

00:53:15.080 because you're

00:53:15.820 a woman's rights

00:53:16.620 campaigner.

00:53:17.240 That's your focus.

00:53:18.540 I guess what I'm saying

00:53:19.720 is,

00:53:20.020 and again,

00:53:20.440 Jordan Peterson

00:53:21.000 mentioned this,

00:53:22.000 is if you think

00:53:23.220 strong men are dangerous,

00:53:24.680 just wait until

00:53:25.360 you see weak men.

00:53:26.220 Oh,

00:53:26.720 I agree with you.

00:53:27.720 You know what I mean?

00:53:28.320 I just don't know

00:53:28.520 what a strong man,

00:53:29.760 it's very,

00:53:30.480 it's a difficult thing

00:53:32.660 to describe

00:53:33.400 what does a strong man

00:53:35.500 look like.

00:53:36.140 I think a strong man

00:53:36.920 takes his responsibilities

00:53:37.980 as a father

00:53:38.680 very seriously.

00:53:39.680 Yes.

00:53:39.920 I think a strong man

00:53:41.520 wants to protect

00:53:42.220 the mother of his children

00:53:43.680 as well as his children,

00:53:44.880 right?

00:53:45.140 And then my role

00:53:45.840 is to protect my children

00:53:46.840 and maybe look after

00:53:47.920 my husband.

00:53:48.940 My role as a wife

00:53:49.960 is to serve him

00:53:50.780 and his role as a husband

00:53:51.780 is to serve me.

00:53:53.020 And that will,

00:53:53.940 of course,

00:53:54.360 make a difference

00:53:55.460 in the way

00:53:56.340 that we do that

00:53:57.260 because I had babies.

00:54:00.000 My role,

00:54:00.620 my reproductive role

00:54:01.860 is to have the babies.

00:54:03.880 I can't possibly think

00:54:05.520 that something

00:54:06.280 so important

00:54:07.200 wouldn't have an impact

00:54:08.220 on the rest

00:54:09.040 of my personality

00:54:09.900 and life.

00:54:10.940 And I mean even

00:54:11.660 childless women.

00:54:12.960 I think we have

00:54:14.160 instinct,

00:54:16.500 which I like to call

00:54:18.080 like legacy memory,

00:54:19.260 which is we,

00:54:20.600 we bring the experience

00:54:22.840 of our ancestors,

00:54:25.120 not in a kind of like

00:54:26.360 kumbaya spiritual way,

00:54:28.460 but just I believe

00:54:29.460 that if you can have

00:54:30.420 instinct that is informed

00:54:32.120 in your genes

00:54:32.900 and you know how to do it,

00:54:33.860 then why wouldn't you

00:54:34.580 carry anything else

00:54:35.620 from previous generations?

00:54:38.340 Why wouldn't it be

00:54:39.000 sort of in your blood

00:54:39.820 and your bones?

00:54:41.420 So I do get you

00:54:44.280 and I think you're right.

00:54:46.520 I just wonder if

00:54:48.360 some of the things

00:54:49.920 that we had to change

00:54:51.160 for women to be

00:54:53.300 considered equal

00:54:54.720 because our society

00:54:56.160 is set up on the structure

00:54:57.240 of success and finance.

00:54:59.360 So in order to have autonomy,

00:55:02.560 you have to have money.

00:55:04.000 But in order to have a baby,

00:55:05.940 you have to rely on,

00:55:07.120 as a woman,

00:55:07.820 you have to rely on somebody

00:55:09.100 to provide that money.

00:55:11.480 And I've got women

00:55:12.060 who are like,

00:55:12.360 I wouldn't rely on my husband.

00:55:14.400 I was like,

00:55:14.700 well, the state then?

00:55:15.800 Is that different?

00:55:16.660 Is the state

00:55:17.300 not the patriarchy

00:55:19.160 if you're saying

00:55:20.120 that your husband is?

00:55:21.480 I mean,

00:55:21.820 I'm all up for relying

00:55:22.980 on my husband for cash.

00:55:25.260 It suits me fine.

00:55:27.220 So we had to get through

00:55:31.480 some of the things

00:55:32.840 that genuinely did

00:55:34.140 subjugate women.

00:55:35.320 Yes.

00:55:35.780 We had to get through it

00:55:36.800 and we found

00:55:37.540 these particular solutions

00:55:38.640 and they're not perfect

00:55:39.700 by any stretch

00:55:40.600 and maybe this is

00:55:41.840 the consequences.

00:55:43.380 Yeah, well,

00:55:43.940 this is what I'm getting at,

00:55:45.560 right?

00:55:45.780 Because the progress,

00:55:48.720 inverted commas,

00:55:49.460 that we've made

00:55:49.960 over the last 60 years,

00:55:51.100 there's been some good things

00:55:52.180 about that.

00:55:53.160 But like,

00:55:53.860 when you start

00:55:54.560 pulling on the sweater,

00:55:55.780 you don't know

00:55:56.460 which lines

00:55:57.840 are going to come out of it.

00:55:59.420 And it just seems to me

00:56:00.940 that what you're talking about

00:56:02.660 there is considered

00:56:03.760 trad nowadays,

00:56:05.160 which is the idea

00:56:06.100 that a man and woman

00:56:07.020 get together

00:56:07.580 and have children

00:56:08.220 and look after each other

00:56:09.180 in different ways.

00:56:11.760 And, you know,

00:56:12.460 Louise Perry,

00:56:13.000 I don't know if you're familiar

00:56:14.180 with her work.

00:56:14.680 I am.

00:56:15.280 She wrote a lovely article

00:56:16.380 about me in The Spectator.

00:56:17.540 Yeah.

00:56:18.240 Is that sarcasm?

00:56:19.440 No.

00:56:19.780 No, no, yeah.

00:56:20.720 Well, it's really nice.

00:56:21.560 Yeah.

00:56:22.180 And her book is very good.

00:56:23.800 And I think her book

00:56:24.640 is basically making this point.

00:56:26.120 It's like,

00:56:26.680 the sexual revolution

00:56:27.620 had its benefits,

00:56:29.800 but look at this.

00:56:31.140 Not great, though.

00:56:32.740 I mean,

00:56:33.800 I don't know too many women

00:56:36.660 who have a good time

00:56:37.680 in a short relationship.

00:56:39.820 Quite.

00:56:40.300 Yeah.

00:56:41.080 Quite.

00:56:41.840 But that is now

00:56:42.780 the standard

00:56:43.380 for young women.

00:56:45.240 Yeah, I mean,

00:56:45.780 they're just,

00:56:46.300 they've been,

00:56:47.500 both men and women

00:56:48.620 have been coerced

00:56:49.620 into thinking

00:56:50.160 that there is fulfillment

00:56:51.080 in numbers.

00:56:53.620 By the way,

00:56:54.060 you know what a lot

00:56:54.640 of women don't understand,

00:56:55.740 I think,

00:56:56.580 is that it's not good

00:56:57.520 for men either.

00:56:58.440 No.

00:56:59.080 It's really not.

00:57:00.480 It's really not.

00:57:01.180 It doesn't make men happy.

00:57:02.980 There's a small minority

00:57:04.120 of men

00:57:04.600 who are happy

00:57:05.360 with it for a while,

00:57:06.300 and then eventually

00:57:07.160 they have kids

00:57:07.840 and settle down

00:57:08.480 with somebody.

00:57:09.760 But for most men,

00:57:10.740 it's not good either.

00:57:12.220 No,

00:57:12.580 I don't think we think

00:57:13.360 about this.

00:57:13.780 I mean,

00:57:14.160 I just think about

00:57:14.820 the physiological

00:57:15.700 kind of exchange

00:57:16.920 that happens,

00:57:17.580 if you like.

00:57:18.660 And I do feel

00:57:20.340 women are short-changed.

00:57:24.740 That is beautifully put.

00:57:26.620 But society

00:57:27.700 is telling them

00:57:28.740 that actually

00:57:29.800 this is empowering.

00:57:31.260 It's so nuts,

00:57:32.180 though, isn't it?

00:57:33.180 It's,

00:57:33.740 yeah,

00:57:35.500 I just,

00:57:36.380 I sort of think

00:57:37.640 maybe I'm just

00:57:39.560 very special,

00:57:40.940 but maybe it's

00:57:43.460 I've got

00:57:43.720 a good strong ego,

00:57:45.840 and maybe that's

00:57:46.480 for a multitude

00:57:47.500 of reasons.

00:57:49.400 But I've always

00:57:51.120 been of the opinion

00:57:51.860 that I get to

00:57:53.860 be happy.

00:57:56.860 I get to do things

00:57:57.820 that I want.

00:57:58.720 I don't have to fit in

00:57:59.800 with other people.

00:58:01.460 I can trust my instincts,

00:58:03.080 and I really do.

00:58:03.960 I have a very heightened

00:58:05.180 sense of

00:58:06.780 instinctively

00:58:09.100 like what is right.

00:58:10.360 Now, I'm not saying

00:58:10.940 I get it right

00:58:11.700 in every single time,

00:58:14.560 but

00:58:14.840 if something

00:58:16.320 doesn't feel right

00:58:17.000 to me,

00:58:17.300 I'll just go with it.

00:58:18.240 I'll just trust

00:58:18.940 that my instincts

00:58:20.820 know better

00:58:21.280 than my rational brain.

00:58:23.400 And loads of people

00:58:24.140 don't.

00:58:25.100 There's Gavin DeBeck,

00:58:26.300 I think it is,

00:58:26.820 who does The Gift of Fear.

00:58:28.740 He'd be a great guest.

00:58:30.460 A great guest.

00:58:31.620 And he does

00:58:32.060 This Gift of Fear

00:58:32.820 where he talks about

00:58:33.860 a lot of

00:58:35.360 nasty kind of

00:58:37.240 people who want

00:58:38.140 to harm you.

00:58:39.040 They will rely

00:58:39.840 on your sort of

00:58:40.560 sense of politeness

00:58:41.640 to justify to yourself

00:58:43.520 why,

00:58:44.400 oh, it's all right

00:58:44.960 if I let him

00:58:45.620 follow me in

00:58:46.200 through the,

00:58:46.700 you know,

00:58:47.440 the shared door

00:58:48.380 at the bottom

00:58:48.820 of the entrance.

00:58:49.640 Oh, I won't ask.

00:58:51.900 So it's,

00:58:53.120 he talks about

00:58:53.740 The Gift of Fear

00:58:54.260 as something that,

00:58:55.240 you know,

00:58:55.440 you don't see a mouse

00:58:56.340 on a,

00:58:57.100 you don't see a mouse

00:58:57.760 go,

00:58:58.300 a mouse,

00:58:58.980 when a cat comes along,

00:59:00.760 think,

00:59:01.360 oh, maybe they're friendly.

00:59:03.180 They just,

00:59:03.840 they just trust

00:59:04.500 their instincts,

00:59:04.980 and I think

00:59:05.460 we've lost that

00:59:06.280 somewhat.

00:59:06.680 Sort of ties into your,

00:59:08.260 well,

00:59:08.500 the entire thing

00:59:09.440 of your work,

00:59:10.180 really,

00:59:10.640 which is,

00:59:11.400 you're like,

00:59:12.040 do this,

00:59:13.020 you know,

00:59:13.260 we could be polite,

00:59:14.080 but actually,

00:59:15.140 we need to protect

00:59:16.120 this.

00:59:16.920 Is that where

00:59:17.420 you're coming from,

00:59:18.040 on it?

00:59:18.720 Yeah,

00:59:19.240 pretty much.

00:59:20.280 I think,

00:59:21.080 I talk about this

00:59:22.660 on my channel,

00:59:24.180 most women

00:59:25.420 you will meet

00:59:26.340 have had an episode,

00:59:28.060 an experience,

00:59:29.200 in which they're

00:59:29.820 in a toilet

00:59:31.200 or a changing room,

00:59:33.340 female only,

00:59:34.600 and then they hear

00:59:35.140 a man's voice.

00:59:36.680 And it happened to me

00:59:37.600 when I'd flown back

00:59:38.800 from the States

00:59:39.820 a couple of years ago,

00:59:41.520 and a guy came in,

00:59:43.280 he wasn't speaking English,

00:59:44.860 he went in the toilet

00:59:46.040 next to me,

00:59:46.660 he was really loud,

00:59:47.420 I don't know

00:59:47.680 whether he was talking

00:59:48.100 on the phone

00:59:48.540 or whatever,

00:59:49.020 but I instinctively

00:59:50.660 just did this.

00:59:53.740 And I didn't,

00:59:55.600 and then I'm waiting,

00:59:56.760 and it's quite a long time,

00:59:58.240 and I'm just waiting,

00:59:59.280 and then when I do

01:00:00.040 start breathing,

01:00:00.640 I'm like,

01:00:02.340 just trying to breathe

01:00:03.580 quite,

01:00:03.840 until that door shuts

01:00:04.940 and he's gone,

01:00:05.480 and I can hear his

01:00:06.100 footsteps walking away.

01:00:08.680 You can't,

01:00:09.680 you can't pretend,

01:00:11.900 nobody can tell me

01:00:13.180 that that changes

01:00:14.840 if that male voice

01:00:16.480 is accompanied

01:00:17.020 with stilettos.

01:00:18.480 It's just not true.

01:00:20.220 Probably makes it worse

01:00:21.000 in some ways.

01:00:23.660 What do you think,

01:00:25.220 we don't try to focus

01:00:26.400 on personalities

01:00:27.080 on the show generally,

01:00:28.240 but we have somebody

01:00:29.300 running to be an MP

01:00:30.600 in this country,

01:00:32.240 Eddie Izzard,

01:00:34.080 who I think said

01:00:37.100 that we just don't,

01:00:38.160 I can't remember

01:00:38.780 the exact words,

01:00:39.800 but it was something

01:00:40.420 along the lines of

01:00:41.280 it's the 21st century,

01:00:42.480 you just,

01:00:43.560 what was it exactly,

01:00:44.680 does anyone remember?

01:00:45.420 No, I can't remember

01:00:46.100 what Eddie said.

01:00:46.720 It was something

01:00:47.320 along the lines of

01:00:48.300 we just all need to

01:00:49.540 get with,

01:00:50.440 not get with the program,

01:00:51.560 but it was language

01:00:52.300 of that type.

01:00:54.000 Do we need to get

01:00:54.740 with the program?

01:00:55.480 No, I think Eddie

01:00:56.160 needs to stop copying

01:00:57.020 my look.

01:00:59.940 I'm going to run

01:01:00.640 against him.

01:01:01.180 So if he runs,

01:01:03.720 I'm going to run

01:01:04.760 as an independent

01:01:05.380 against him.

01:01:06.220 Yeah.

01:01:07.000 And maybe I'll have

01:01:07.860 prosthetic limbs.

01:01:11.360 Do we need to get

01:01:12.160 with the program?

01:01:13.100 No, I think Eddie Izzard

01:01:14.180 is definitely

01:01:16.300 is an AGP.

01:01:17.300 He's talked about it.

01:01:18.580 I used to feel

01:01:19.880 quite sorry for him

01:01:20.500 because he does

01:01:22.540 talk about this,

01:01:23.320 so I mean,

01:01:23.980 you might have to

01:01:24.700 fact check it,

01:01:25.400 but he was in

01:01:27.220 a documentary

01:01:27.760 where he talked

01:01:28.820 about his mother

01:01:29.300 dying when he was

01:01:29.840 quite young

01:01:30.280 and he looks for her

01:01:31.120 everywhere and I do

01:01:33.040 believe that is

01:01:33.820 the instigation

01:01:35.680 and the start

01:01:36.720 of this particular

01:01:38.320 fetish.

01:01:42.260 But no,

01:01:44.040 it's so offensive

01:01:45.940 wearing fake breasts

01:01:48.360 and then calling

01:01:49.940 yourself a woman.

01:01:50.880 It's so offensive.

01:01:53.240 I mean,

01:01:53.540 it's years ago

01:01:54.920 that would just be

01:01:55.680 like a comedy sketch,

01:01:57.140 right?

01:01:57.380 A man wearing fake breasts

01:01:58.760 and now he's running

01:02:00.100 for parliament

01:02:01.480 and bloody

01:02:03.260 Russell Crowe

01:02:03.940 is tweeting about it

01:02:04.980 or you make a great

01:02:05.800 MP.

01:02:06.700 Yeah, come on then.

01:02:08.020 Let's have that.

01:02:08.900 Let Eddie bring

01:02:09.980 the conversation

01:02:10.580 because the beautiful

01:02:12.080 thing about so many

01:02:13.640 of these narcissistic

01:02:14.960 men is that

01:02:16.440 they have no idea

01:02:17.720 that when they speak

01:02:18.640 they reveal

01:02:19.320 everything that

01:02:20.720 I can't possibly

01:02:21.820 tell people.

01:02:22.520 but if I just

01:02:23.960 show them

01:02:24.340 Eddie Izzard

01:02:24.760 talking and

01:02:25.480 wearing fake breasts

01:02:26.480 that tells

01:02:27.540 that tells people

01:02:28.860 mostly

01:02:29.720 all they need

01:02:31.580 to know.

01:02:33.080 I'd be interested

01:02:33.820 to see that

01:02:34.600 that debate.

01:02:36.100 I mean,

01:02:36.680 it would make

01:02:37.180 for great content.

01:02:40.440 We'll happily

01:02:41.120 have you both

01:02:41.640 on to talk about it.

01:02:42.440 Yeah, we'd love that.

01:02:42.900 If you both stand

01:02:43.900 we would

01:02:44.280 and we would be fair

01:02:45.200 to both of you.

01:02:45.820 Yeah, exactly.

01:02:46.320 She's still up

01:02:46.760 and for Eddie on tour.

01:02:47.800 Yeah.

01:02:48.400 Oh, he was so funny.

01:02:50.460 Brilliant comedian.

01:02:50.960 Just so gutted.

01:02:53.540 One of the greatest

01:02:54.460 comedians this country

01:02:55.260 has ever produced

01:02:55.920 undeniably.

01:02:56.820 When he talked about

01:02:57.480 himself being a male

01:02:58.440 lesbian and no,

01:02:59.280 they're not a woman's

01:03:00.400 clothes, they're my

01:03:00.980 clothes and all that

01:03:02.300 stuff and like,

01:03:03.440 like come on,

01:03:04.120 it's on tape, man.

01:03:05.900 He used to call himself

01:03:06.640 an all-action transvestite.

01:03:07.940 I know.

01:03:09.120 I could,

01:03:09.860 I used to,

01:03:10.960 like I could repeat

01:03:12.360 his stand-up

01:03:13.460 because I absolutely

01:03:14.980 loved him

01:03:15.520 and I just think

01:03:16.180 it's like the

01:03:17.480 Douglas Murray analogy

01:03:18.540 that he got,

01:03:19.900 the train got in the

01:03:20.760 station and he just

01:03:21.460 crashed all the way

01:03:22.360 through.

01:03:22.860 Just ruined it.

01:03:24.160 You're like,

01:03:24.440 no, just back there

01:03:25.600 but I,

01:03:26.380 not to talk about

01:03:27.480 him personally

01:03:28.260 because I wouldn't

01:03:29.540 want to be unfair

01:03:30.180 but often what

01:03:31.400 happens with these men

01:03:32.340 is the AGP element

01:03:34.000 of their fetish

01:03:34.940 just gets overwhelming

01:03:36.580 in the end

01:03:37.320 and where they could

01:03:38.780 sort of keep a check

01:03:39.720 on it,

01:03:40.480 it does become

01:03:41.580 like a huge compulsion.

01:03:44.380 Well,

01:03:45.360 if you both stand,

01:03:46.340 we would love

01:03:47.220 to have you both

01:03:47.900 on for a genuine

01:03:49.040 discussion,

01:03:49.740 not a bitch fest

01:03:51.080 or anything

01:03:51.560 but an actual

01:03:52.340 conversation

01:03:52.940 between two people

01:03:54.100 who clearly feel

01:03:54.820 very differently

01:03:55.340 about it.

01:03:56.040 I wonder if he would

01:03:56.980 actually because

01:03:57.740 out of all the people

01:03:58.580 I wonder if,

01:03:59.500 because he's intelligent,

01:04:00.900 erudite,

01:04:01.520 I'm sure he could

01:04:02.500 construct.

01:04:03.560 He doesn't shirk

01:04:04.240 a challenge.

01:04:05.000 No.

01:04:05.400 He really doesn't.

01:04:06.280 So Eddie,

01:04:07.160 if you're watching,

01:04:07.980 fair debate,

01:04:08.620 the opportunity is there.

01:04:09.720 You can come

01:04:11.060 and talk about it.

01:04:13.080 Kelly Jekin,

01:04:14.220 absolute pleasure

01:04:14.880 to have you back.

01:04:16.920 Before we go

01:04:18.420 to our last question,

01:04:19.200 actually,

01:04:19.600 I suppose the question

01:04:20.640 for me is,

01:04:21.840 what is the end goal

01:04:23.260 of your work?

01:04:23.940 What does it look like?

01:04:25.740 Is it a set of laws?

01:04:27.160 Is it public policies?

01:04:29.640 What do you want?

01:04:31.840 I want no more children

01:04:33.760 to transition.

01:04:35.200 In fact,

01:04:35.500 I would like for there

01:04:37.180 to be prevention

01:04:38.460 on anyone being able

01:04:40.040 to transition

01:04:40.660 without at least

01:04:42.040 three years

01:04:42.660 of intense therapy

01:04:43.800 post-18,

01:04:45.020 so they couldn't

01:04:45.520 transition until

01:04:46.220 they were at least

01:04:46.860 21,

01:04:48.640 preferably 28

01:04:49.980 because that's when

01:04:50.580 your brain is fully developed.

01:04:52.420 I want the GRA

01:04:53.420 to be totally scrapped.

01:04:54.800 I don't want any such thing

01:04:56.060 as a man calling himself

01:04:58.120 a woman-in-law

01:04:58.840 or vice versa.

01:05:00.880 I would,

01:05:02.240 I've got quite a list.

01:05:03.500 I would like no more

01:05:11.140 female language

01:05:11.820 used for men

01:05:12.480 at all.

01:05:13.920 Like,

01:05:14.140 if you want to do that

01:05:15.100 in your private conversations,

01:05:16.280 that's fine,

01:05:16.760 but no government,

01:05:18.140 no school,

01:05:19.840 no government,

01:05:20.580 no NHS,

01:05:21.320 no nothing,

01:05:21.940 no official place

01:05:23.400 in which we erase

01:05:24.820 women's language

01:05:25.580 or replace men's language

01:05:27.600 with women's.

01:05:30.240 Aside from that,

01:05:31.260 I don't know,

01:05:31.760 a knighthood.

01:05:33.500 But yeah,

01:05:34.780 it's just,

01:05:35.360 I want us to return

01:05:37.120 to truth

01:05:38.480 and not my truth

01:05:40.460 or your truth,

01:05:41.200 just the truth.

01:05:42.620 That's what I'm interested in.

01:05:44.680 Lady Posey of Turfdom.

01:05:47.200 And we always finish

01:05:48.760 our interviews

01:05:49.780 with the same question,

01:05:50.680 which is,

01:05:51.020 what's the one thing

01:05:51.500 we're not talking about

01:05:52.440 that we really should be

01:05:53.800 as a society?

01:05:54.840 And we'll do some

01:05:55.460 locals questions

01:05:56.200 in a second as well.

01:05:57.260 Sorry, Kelly.

01:05:57.720 Well,

01:05:59.020 I think I said

01:05:59.580 paedophilia last time.

01:06:00.920 I think that still

01:06:01.820 needs to be talked about,

01:06:02.760 but I will introduce

01:06:04.020 the concept of

01:06:05.500 parental rights

01:06:07.320 and parents understanding

01:06:08.960 what their rights are

01:06:09.840 and responsibilities,

01:06:11.060 which are first and foremost

01:06:12.460 to their children

01:06:13.600 and not to be sidetracked

01:06:15.680 by what experts

01:06:17.720 or the state tells you

01:06:19.040 is good for your kids.

01:06:20.780 It's a very good point.

01:06:22.900 We're going to do

01:06:23.720 a few of your questions

01:06:25.260 for locals

01:06:26.040 that you've asked on there

01:06:26.980 that only you will get to see.

01:06:28.420 So join us there.

01:06:29.180 But for now,

01:06:29.680 Kelly J. Keen,

01:06:30.220 thank you so much

01:06:30.720 for joining us

01:06:31.300 and we'll see you

01:06:32.080 very soon

01:06:32.500 with another brilliant episode

01:06:33.580 like this one

01:06:34.660 or also.

01:06:35.580 All of them go out

01:06:36.420 at 7pm UK time.

01:06:38.000 And for those of you

01:06:38.800 who like your trigonometry

01:06:39.700 on the go,

01:06:40.640 it's also available

01:06:41.600 as a podcast.

01:06:42.760 Take care

01:06:43.240 and see you soon, guys.

01:06:44.440 I'm a teacher.

01:06:48.200 Teenagers.

01:06:49.040 She teaches teenagers

01:06:50.140 and have some trans students.

01:06:52.560 Trans is inverted commas.

01:06:54.460 How would you address

01:06:55.660 these girls who are minors

01:06:57.100 if you were in my position?

01:06:59.120 Broadway's smash hit

01:07:12.560 The Neil Diamond Musical

01:07:13.860 A Beautiful Noise

01:07:15.220 is coming to Toronto.

01:07:16.980 The true story

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01:07:18.820 destined for something more

01:07:20.340 featuring all the songs you love

01:07:22.120 including America,

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01:07:38.040 Get tickets at

01:07:38.780 murvish.com

TRIGGERnometry - November 24, 2022

Posie Parker：＂Women's Safety is More Important Than Men's Feelings＂

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