TRIGGERnometry - PSYCHIATRIST： How the Transgender Movement Happened

00:00:00.240 Gender is the term that was first introduced by John Money, psychologist John Money.

00:00:08.620 His proof of concept failed miserably.

00:00:12.860 It could not have failed more.

00:00:14.820 John Money was sexually abusing those kids, and he was showing them pornography,

00:00:20.040 and he was also for incest.

00:00:22.200 He was publicly pro-incest.

00:00:24.140 So this is a wicked guy.

00:00:25.920 When I have looked at some of these theories, when I have looked at the people who have put forward these theories,

00:00:33.580 who have created these theories, there seems to be a link between these types of theories and pedophilia.

00:00:41.920 Am I wrong in making that assertion?

00:00:45.600 People like John Money, they want to promote the idea that we are all sexual from cradle to grave.

00:00:51.880 So if children are sexual, well then, why are we preventing them from engaging in sexual behavior with adults?

00:00:59.840 I mean, adults who love them, what's wrong with that?

00:01:03.220 There is a link. There is a real link.

00:01:05.440 Hello, and welcome to Trigonometry.

00:01:18.320 I'm Francis Foster.

00:01:19.800 I'm Constantine Kissin.

00:01:20.840 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:01:26.160 Our terrific guest today is a child and adolescent psychiatrist.

00:01:30.460 She's author of many books, the latest of which is called Lost in Transnation.

00:01:34.080 And you may have seen her very important contributions to What is a Woman, the documentary that we've covered on here.

00:01:39.880 Dr. Miriam Grossman, welcome to Trigonometry.

00:01:42.440 Well, thank you so much for having me.

00:01:45.100 I'm looking forward to this conversation.

00:01:47.580 Oh, it's going to be great.

00:01:48.720 Before we go into the conversation itself, tell everybody a little bit about your background.

00:01:54.020 How are you, where you are?

00:01:55.060 What has been the journey through life that leads you to be sitting here talking to us across the Atlantic?

00:01:59.340 Well, as you said, I'm a child, an adolescent, an adult psychiatrist, a medical doctor.

00:02:09.060 Let's see, how did I get to be sitting in this chair right now and talking to you?

00:02:13.520 I guess the short answer would be, I always had an interest in female biology.

00:02:20.120 I was always fascinated by the female menstrual cycle and pregnancy and maternal child bonding.

00:02:31.020 And that's always been my first love in science.

00:02:34.720 Now, I have been seeing children and adolescents and families for many decades in my office.

00:02:45.680 And most recently, I've been seeing kids who express some distress over being boys or girls and their parents.

00:02:55.820 Now, I have done a lot of research into this field of, let's call it gender ideology, or in my book, I call it a belief system.

00:03:10.100 And I have concluded that it is a utterly unscientific, without medical basis, system of beliefs that is being thrust on us, foisted on us by a movement, a social, political movement, turbocharged movement.

00:03:33.880 And the victims here, primarily, are the children and their families.

00:03:42.040 There are other victims as well.

00:03:43.720 I believe that all of society are victims.

00:03:46.940 But I'm focused, since I am a psychiatrist, I'm focused on what's happening with the children, with their parents.

00:03:55.640 And I am deeply alarmed and angry about what I've been seeing for the past few years in my office.

00:04:07.180 And I felt that a book is necessary to help these parents.

00:04:12.500 They tell me that when the announcement was made in their home, mom, dad, I'm not your son, I'm your daughter, when that kind of announcement is made, they were blindsided.

00:04:23.580 They were shocked, they never expected it, they didn't know how to respond, and they then took their child to a gender-affirming clinic or a gender-affirming therapist, and that ended up being the worst mistake they could ever have made.

00:04:40.380 So, I felt that a book is necessary, not only to help the parents that are currently going through this crisis at home, but in order to help parents prevent such a crisis.

00:04:56.120 And, so to speak, to inoculate their children and their families from this dangerous belief system entering and gaining a hold with one of their kids.

00:05:09.700 Once that happens, it can be very difficult to get the child out.

00:05:14.880 So, my book is called Lost in Transnation, a child psychiatrist's guide out of the madness.

00:05:26.260 And I put my heart and soul into that book.

00:05:29.680 I've written other books, I wrote four other books.

00:05:33.080 I never put so much heart and soul into any book as I have this book.

00:05:38.360 And that is because I have seen such suffering and shattered lives that I decided I'm really going to devote, I mean, I'm at the end of my career, but I am going to devote the years that I have left to fighting this.

00:05:59.640 And so, that's how I got to be sitting in this chair in front of you right now.

00:06:04.260 That makes perfect sense, Miriam.

00:06:05.860 And it's a real pleasure to have you on the show.

00:06:07.880 And I can't wait to talk about your book, particularly, I became a parent recently.

00:06:12.020 And so, I know that this is kind of something that a lot of parents are having to now think about, unfortunately.

00:06:17.840 But before we get to that, one of the things I wanted to speak with you about, we've had all sorts of people on the show to talk about, you know, whistleblowers from transgender clinics and physicians.

00:06:28.940 And parents and parents and so on.

00:06:31.260 But one thing I wanted to delve deeply into with you first is just some very basic questions that are still being debated in our society.

00:06:41.700 Is there such a thing as gender?

00:06:45.400 Okay, well, let's see.

00:06:50.380 What am I going to do with that particular question?

00:06:52.860 So, that can be, we can go in different directions here.

00:06:56.140 Okay.

00:06:56.360 We can talk about language and how a certain lexicon that has been created by this social movement and this vocabulary has been forced upon us.

00:07:11.220 That's one direction.

00:07:12.780 The other direction we could go in is to talk about biology.

00:07:16.180 So, let me first go to the biology.

00:07:18.480 Let's just get certain things straight, you know, from the get-go.

00:07:26.020 So, we are mammals.

00:07:28.700 Mammals are dimorphic in terms of their sex.

00:07:34.400 There's two sexes.

00:07:36.020 Sex is male and female.

00:07:38.400 And the way that that is determined, whether a person is male or female, is you look at their reproductive systems and you see whether that reproductive system is organized around creating sperm or eggs.

00:07:54.420 Now, it's one or the other.

00:07:57.420 That doesn't mean that every single human being is fertile.

00:08:01.160 There are people that are infertile.

00:08:03.700 But that's besides the point.

00:08:06.240 Whether they are not fertile is not the point.

00:08:08.540 The point is whether their reproductive system is fundamentally designed around the possibility of creating eggs or sperm.

00:08:20.100 And every single human being would fall into one of those categories.

00:08:27.120 Well, okay.

00:08:28.300 Wait.

00:08:28.660 Wait.

00:08:29.240 I'm just going to – just let me say something here.

00:08:31.380 And by the way, I almost chopped my finger off yesterday in the kitchen, so your audience should just understand that's why I have this bandage.

00:08:39.720 I'm fine.

00:08:40.700 No worries.

00:08:42.640 There are extremely rare individuals.

00:08:48.340 These individuals at one time were called hermaphrodites and they are now called intersex.

00:08:54.580 And some of those intersex people, you know, a minority of them, they may have both male and female elements in their reproductive system.

00:09:09.560 And I have had a patient like that who had both testicles that were undeveloped and an undeveloped uterus.

00:09:27.680 So, you know, and chromosomally also was an anomaly.

00:09:32.380 So, that person, you could argue, is truly an intersex, you know, unclear how to identify this person.

00:09:46.660 But the numbers of babies being born that fit into that category are extraordinarily rare.

00:09:54.400 And what this belief system of this transgender belief system is foisting on us and on children is the belief that we all fall within some sort of a spectrum of male and female,

00:10:10.540 with male and female only being the two extremes at each end.

00:10:15.640 But then there's an infinite number of points in between those two extremes.

00:10:22.040 And we have to validate all these possible identities and that nothing is pathology, nothing is abnormal.

00:10:33.480 These are all variations of human expression.

00:10:37.020 Now, to get back to your question, what is gender?

00:10:39.680 Gender is the term that was first introduced in the 50s by John Money, psychologist John Money, at Johns Hopkins University.

00:10:57.660 He was a famous sexologist and psychologist whose main area of study were these individuals that I just described,

00:11:11.380 intersex individuals, babies, then called hermaphrodites.

00:11:16.980 And his main interest was in how is that assignment made?

00:11:24.480 Now, there's the word assignment, okay?

00:11:26.420 That's a big word, right?

00:11:28.460 Assignment, big, big word.

00:11:31.000 I'll get to that in a minute.

00:11:33.880 How are those kids assigned male or female when they're born?

00:11:41.020 Okay, this is the 50s, the 60s.

00:11:44.260 You got to wrap the baby immediately in either a pink or blue blanket.

00:11:50.420 We don't have those pink.

00:11:51.640 Right now, we have, you know, for a long time, those blankets that the newborns are wrapped in for decades now are striped blue and pink, at least in the U.S.

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00:12:37.160 No, I don't think we have a specific color, but I'm sure it'll be rainbow colors before we know it.

00:12:43.780 So, it used to be, I mean, when I was doing my training and working in the delivery room, there were pink or blue blankets.

00:12:53.200 And, obviously, that's a very big deal.

00:12:57.000 What is the very, what is the first thing, if you haven't had an ultrasound and you don't know ahead of time,

00:13:02.960 what is the first thing that the doctor or midwife is going to say,

00:13:07.040 congratulations, it's a boy, congratulations, it's a girl.

00:13:12.060 What happens if a baby is born and they're not sure if it's a boy or a girl?

00:13:19.000 So, these were the cases that John Money was fascinated with and he proposed that we, there's, he introduced the word gender and gender identity

00:13:35.060 to refer to our sex as separate from our genitals.

00:13:42.000 So, he invented this idea that we have a psychological sex, not just a biological sex, but a psychological sex in our mind

00:13:54.380 and that we are born gender neutral.

00:13:58.760 So, that when we're born, even a normal child, he proposed, is born without any propensity or, you know, masculine or feminine qualities.

00:14:16.300 Yes, there were certain physical characteristics, obviously, that were different.

00:14:21.180 And John Money would say things like, well, females, they lactate, they menstruate, and they gestate.

00:14:32.320 Okay, meaning they, you know, have their periods, their breasts produce milk, and they get pregnant and carry a child and deliver a child.

00:14:44.020 But aside from those areas, everything else is imposed by society, a social construct.

00:14:53.580 So, all the sort of so-called feminine qualities of being nurturing and, you know, preferring to play with dolls instead of, instead of trucks,

00:15:08.220 and interest in the more nurturing professions, and being more, maybe, verbal and articulate.

00:15:22.120 I mean, all these kind of stereotypical things.

00:15:27.660 So, John Money proposed that this is all imposed by society, a social construct.

00:15:35.460 But in addition, he came up with this revolutionary theory that because that's the case, and we are all born gender neutral,

00:15:45.400 that therefore, a boy could be successfully raised as a girl, and a girl as a boy.

00:15:51.600 It all depended on environment.

00:15:54.000 So, this was at a time in society when there was a great debate going on, nurture versus nature.

00:16:00.220 Okay, nurture being our families, and our parents, and siblings, and teachers, and all of the messages that we get from our environment,

00:16:12.200 versus nature, what is inborn, what are the role of our chromosomes, the role of our biology, our hormones.

00:16:25.360 Okay? Nature versus nurture.

00:16:28.480 So, that was a big debate at the time.

00:16:31.600 Now, John Money's theory that we are born gender neutral,

00:16:36.820 and that it was going to be society that's going to determine if a boy feels like a boy, and acts like a boy,

00:16:47.900 and it was not his biology, he proposed that in order for this to happen, to raise a boy as a girl, a girl as a boy,

00:16:57.640 it had to happen before the age of two and a half or three.

00:17:02.220 So, that was his big theory.

00:17:04.860 Now, I'll just throw in here, and I explain this in depth in the book.

00:17:08.880 And I ask the question, when you have someone that devotes their life to a particular cause,

00:17:17.080 to promoting a certain theory, an idea, and he really did devote his life to this idea that I just described,

00:17:26.200 we have to ask why.

00:17:28.840 Why is that particular idea so, so important to them?

00:17:32.420 I'm a psychiatrist, right? I'm a shrink.

00:17:34.080 So, that's what I do.

00:17:36.520 I try to figure people out.

00:17:39.900 So, I tried to figure out John Money.

00:17:43.800 Why was this theory so important to him?

00:17:47.320 And as you will learn, he actually, when he did his research, this experiment on this theory,

00:17:55.760 and the results were negative,

00:17:59.540 he refused to acknowledge those results.

00:18:04.080 That's how much, how important it was to him

00:18:09.000 that his theory be proven correct.

00:18:13.080 And when it was proven incorrect, big time,

00:18:16.740 he did not announce that, he did not acknowledge that.

00:18:21.280 So, why?

00:18:22.800 Why was this so important to John Money

00:18:25.420 that a person has not only a physical sex,

00:18:30.080 but a psychological sex, which is their gender?

00:18:33.040 And that they don't have to match.

00:18:36.660 Well, if you look at his writings,

00:18:39.280 and he wrote a lot, he was prolific.

00:18:43.240 You find that John Money had a very difficult childhood.

00:18:47.660 He was raised in New Zealand on a farm,

00:18:52.000 and his father was an alcoholic who had outbursts of rage and violence.

00:19:04.240 And his behavior was completely unpredictable,

00:19:08.700 as most alcoholics are.

00:19:12.060 And little John grew up in a home in which he was beaten by his father,

00:19:16.720 and he witnessed his mother being beaten by his father as well.

00:19:20.700 Now, John was a boy who was a small stature,

00:19:28.940 and he was a thoughtful child,

00:19:31.760 and he was not a stereotypical boy who was out there getting into fights

00:19:38.020 and being aggressive.

00:19:40.160 And he wrote about his childhood that he realized that it might be better for women

00:19:53.780 if not only animals, but men, were gelded.

00:20:00.040 Gelded, of course, meaning castrated.

00:20:03.660 Again, he grew up on a farm.

00:20:05.920 He saw animals being gelded, I would imagine.

00:20:09.100 I don't know for a fact.

00:20:11.060 But he knew about gelding male animals.

00:20:14.400 And he wrote that it might be better for women

00:20:17.620 and better for the world if men were gelded.

00:20:20.880 A true feminist.

00:20:21.880 Now, he also wrote, and this is most telling,

00:20:30.280 John Money wrote,

00:20:32.320 I bear the evidence of man's vile masculinity.

00:20:40.100 I don't know if I got every word there.

00:20:42.300 I think that's right.

00:20:44.040 Something about bearing the mark

00:20:46.360 or bearing the evidence of man's, you know, of vile masculinity.

00:20:51.880 In other words, his genitals.

00:20:55.180 So if we were to diagnose John Money today,

00:20:59.180 we would say he could have had what we call gender dysphoria,

00:21:04.280 which is an aversion, a feeling of discomfort,

00:21:10.100 severe discomfort with your genitals

00:21:12.900 and with your biological sex.

00:21:16.420 So I'm proposing that John Money had gender dysphoria.

00:21:21.880 So gender is a concept invented by this very troubled guy

00:21:27.120 in the 50s and 60s.

00:21:29.060 And yet the idea that gender exists is everywhere now.

00:21:34.480 Am I hearing you correctly, if we summarize that,

00:21:37.680 that it's actually BS?

00:21:39.640 There's no such thing as gender in humans or in animals.

00:21:42.220 No, I wouldn't say that.

00:21:45.640 Because there are many, many people

00:21:48.220 that do experience this kind of psychological sex called gender.

00:21:53.440 What I would say is the problem here

00:21:56.860 is not that gender doesn't exist.

00:21:59.680 It's saying that gender or gender identity

00:22:02.680 is primary, is more important than your physical identity.

00:22:07.720 And that everyone has to, you know,

00:22:11.180 bow down and gesticulate to their own

00:22:15.080 or others' perception, their own, you know,

00:22:18.620 perception of their gender identity,

00:22:20.660 that that is primary.

00:22:22.400 And even if a child is five years old,

00:22:25.460 that if the moment that that boy says,

00:22:29.080 I'm a girl, we're supposed to all say,

00:22:31.600 okay, you're a girl.

00:22:33.180 Well, what name do we use?

00:22:35.440 What do you want to wear?

00:22:37.280 Let's grow your hair out.

00:22:40.260 And imagining that they are not going to pay a price for that,

00:22:46.360 for denying their biological sex.

00:22:49.460 That is my argument.

00:22:52.680 So what I am saying is that this idea,

00:22:56.020 and it is simply an idea,

00:22:57.820 it's not hard science.

00:22:59.080 It's not something we can measure.

00:23:01.780 Okay, biological sex,

00:23:04.020 we can see it.

00:23:05.080 We see it under the microscope.

00:23:06.840 Okay, you see the chromosomes.

00:23:09.300 You see the egg.

00:23:10.660 You see the sperm.

00:23:11.920 You can measure it.

00:23:12.960 You can take pictures of it.

00:23:14.540 You can study it using the scientific method.

00:23:18.600 Gender is not something that we have,

00:23:21.580 we can measure.

00:23:22.560 We can at least not measure it in a way

00:23:25.160 that's consistent with the scientific method.

00:23:27.660 So gender would fall into the area of soft science,

00:23:32.580 not hard science.

00:23:34.680 And that's important to point out as well.

00:23:37.380 Soft science being,

00:23:39.280 well, hard science being areas,

00:23:42.900 the study of the real physical world,

00:23:45.840 biology, chemistry, physics.

00:23:48.660 So I just want to stop you there

00:23:52.100 because what you're saying is incredibly interesting.

00:23:54.400 My question is,

00:23:56.260 if this man has been discredited,

00:23:59.340 if his research was found to have,

00:24:02.840 to not have any scientific value,

00:24:05.860 then why is it that these ideas

00:24:09.040 are still being propagated today?

00:24:12.860 Bingo.

00:24:15.560 And my book explains why.

00:24:19.620 And the short answer is

00:24:22.340 that, number one,

00:24:25.280 he publicized his fraudulent data

00:24:30.640 and we didn't get into the experiment

00:24:34.960 that he did on these twins

00:24:36.360 and we don't need to,

00:24:37.880 but your audience should learn about

00:24:39.740 he had one experiment.

00:24:43.000 He did one,

00:24:44.260 his proof of concept

00:24:45.880 of his theory of gender identity

00:24:48.660 being,

00:24:51.220 that we're born gender neutral

00:24:54.460 and that it's all about society

00:24:57.040 and that it's all about gender identity

00:24:59.040 and that it's flu,

00:24:59.940 all that stuff

00:25:00.940 was,

00:25:02.560 his proof of concept

00:25:04.280 failed miserably.

00:25:06.720 It could not have failed more,

00:25:08.860 but

00:25:09.380 it only became known

00:25:11.660 known

00:25:12.360 that it had failed

00:25:14.100 after about

00:25:15.440 25, 30 years

00:25:17.840 after he began saying

00:25:19.640 that it was a success.

00:25:22.160 So there was a long delay

00:25:24.800 in

00:25:25.920 the discovery

00:25:27.680 that the individuals

00:25:29.420 that he had experimented on,

00:25:31.260 the boy

00:25:32.460 that was raised

00:25:33.480 as a girl

00:25:34.420 because he had

00:25:35.420 had his penis

00:25:36.560 burnt off

00:25:37.320 during a circumcision

00:25:38.420 and his parents

00:25:39.940 took him to Johns Hopkins

00:25:41.280 to see Dr. Money.

00:25:43.160 Dr. Money said,

00:25:44.600 raise this boy

00:25:45.720 as a girl

00:25:46.600 and he will be fine.

00:25:48.360 We'll castrate him,

00:25:50.100 we'll do some surgery,

00:25:51.660 we'll give him some hormones

00:25:52.900 at the right time,

00:25:54.340 he'll be absolutely fine.

00:25:56.220 They listened to him,

00:25:57.480 they tried it,

00:25:58.660 it was a disaster,

00:26:00.120 he ended up

00:26:00.680 killing himself.

00:26:02.100 He never felt like a girl,

00:26:04.060 he never acted like a girl

00:26:05.700 and his biology

00:26:07.460 was coming through

00:26:08.620 loud and clear.

00:26:11.220 That Y chromosome,

00:26:13.280 that tiny little Y chromosome

00:26:15.140 makes a big difference.

00:26:18.440 Now,

00:26:19.240 by the time

00:26:21.100 that David Reamer,

00:26:22.760 this boy

00:26:23.300 that was raised

00:26:23.880 as a girl,

00:26:24.500 came out publicly

00:26:26.440 and said,

00:26:28.260 my life

00:26:28.820 was a disaster

00:26:30.080 because of John Money.

00:26:32.360 I

00:26:33.040 was exploited

00:26:34.480 by the medical field

00:26:36.080 and not only that,

00:26:38.840 but

00:26:39.060 John Money's

00:26:40.820 results,

00:26:42.460 when

00:26:42.780 John Money

00:26:43.560 went and said

00:26:44.360 that I,

00:26:45.560 speaking in other words,

00:26:46.520 David speaking now,

00:26:48.040 that I was a success

00:26:49.560 and that I actually

00:26:51.200 felt like a girl,

00:26:52.500 this,

00:26:54.820 you know,

00:26:55.280 you have to understand,

00:26:56.500 I mean,

00:26:56.760 it's impossible to believe here,

00:26:58.740 isn't it?

00:26:59.720 You see,

00:27:00.260 David Reamer

00:27:01.100 was the perfect,

00:27:03.700 perfect

00:27:04.440 subject

00:27:06.900 for John Money.

00:27:08.880 He was a twin.

00:27:10.520 He had an identical twin.

00:27:13.260 So he,

00:27:13.760 and they were,

00:27:14.760 of course,

00:27:15.140 raised in the same environment,

00:27:16.540 the same family.

00:27:17.940 This was the perfect setup.

00:27:19.640 It was the answer

00:27:21.000 to John Money's

00:27:22.280 prayers.

00:27:24.440 And so

00:27:25.380 they do this experiment

00:27:26.680 and this little boy

00:27:28.580 is told

00:27:29.980 from the age

00:27:31.160 of about

00:27:31.640 18 months

00:27:32.880 that he's a girl.

00:27:35.340 Okay,

00:27:35.940 he's still in diapers

00:27:37.100 and

00:27:38.760 he's told

00:27:39.640 he's a girl.

00:27:40.500 He's given the name

00:27:41.560 Brenda.

00:27:42.220 He's put in dresses.

00:27:44.260 The whole world,

00:27:45.600 all his relatives,

00:27:46.880 this is the perfect

00:27:48.200 social,

00:27:49.740 we would call it

00:27:50.880 socially transitioning

00:27:52.000 right now.

00:27:53.060 Except that the kid himself

00:27:54.940 didn't know

00:27:55.740 that he was being

00:27:56.480 socially transitioned.

00:27:58.740 So what could be

00:27:59.800 more perfect than that?

00:28:02.020 And it was

00:28:03.160 a complete failure.

00:28:04.920 But,

00:28:05.340 Baron,

00:28:05.840 so that being the case,

00:28:07.780 why is it,

00:28:08.760 Miriam,

00:28:09.140 that we've now seen,

00:28:10.880 we'll fast forward

00:28:11.760 to 2023

00:28:12.900 and it feels

00:28:14.640 that this ideology

00:28:15.940 is everywhere.

00:28:17.280 It's exploded

00:28:18.360 in popularity.

00:28:19.600 It's now being

00:28:20.460 regurgitated

00:28:21.460 as fact.

00:28:22.980 Why is that?

00:28:25.720 Well,

00:28:26.580 the ideologues

00:28:28.160 on the left

00:28:29.240 took hold

00:28:31.540 of what

00:28:32.500 Dr. Money

00:28:33.060 was saying.

00:28:34.980 We're talking

00:28:36.040 about

00:28:36.580 the 70s,

00:28:38.380 the 80s,

00:28:39.480 the 90s.

00:28:40.520 before David

00:28:42.140 Riemer

00:28:42.460 came out,

00:28:44.140 the book

00:28:44.660 that really

00:28:45.300 publicized,

00:28:46.420 well,

00:28:46.580 there was a BBC

00:28:47.240 documentary about him

00:28:48.560 as well,

00:28:49.480 but this all

00:28:50.520 happened in the

00:28:51.240 late 90s.

00:28:52.580 The book

00:28:53.400 that came out

00:28:54.300 published

00:28:54.860 telling his story

00:28:55.940 is called

00:28:57.420 As Nature Made Him

00:28:58.880 by John Colapinto,

00:29:00.340 came out in 1999.

00:29:02.460 It was before

00:29:03.680 John Money died.

00:29:05.820 John Money,

00:29:06.520 his whole life,

00:29:07.360 never made

00:29:08.240 any public

00:29:08.940 statements

00:29:09.640 regarding what

00:29:10.900 happened.

00:29:11.980 In other words,

00:29:13.060 public statements

00:29:13.900 acknowledging the

00:29:15.100 disaster of his

00:29:16.120 experiment.

00:29:17.480 You're asking

00:29:18.560 the question

00:29:19.840 that I've been

00:29:20.380 asking for 15

00:29:21.520 years.

00:29:22.840 Why is it

00:29:23.800 that now that

00:29:24.820 we know

00:29:25.520 what happened

00:29:26.260 to those twins,

00:29:28.300 and did I say

00:29:29.800 they both

00:29:30.220 committed suicide

00:29:30.940 or did I just

00:29:31.680 say David?

00:29:32.300 No,

00:29:32.540 you just said David.

00:29:33.960 They both

00:29:34.500 committed.

00:29:35.140 Well,

00:29:35.400 the other,

00:29:35.900 his identical

00:29:36.800 twin died

00:29:38.260 of an overdose.

00:29:41.720 So,

00:29:42.540 he destroyed

00:29:43.320 a family,

00:29:44.040 John Money,

00:29:44.640 and he was,

00:29:45.640 every time

00:29:46.220 the kids were

00:29:46.780 taken down

00:29:47.460 to see him,

00:29:48.760 because they

00:29:49.120 lived in Canada,

00:29:51.160 and the parents

00:29:51.780 would take them

00:29:52.360 down once a year

00:29:53.320 to see John Money,

00:29:54.660 John Money was

00:29:55.360 sexually abusing

00:29:56.760 those kids,

00:29:57.780 and he was

00:29:58.620 showing them

00:29:59.160 pornography.

00:30:01.360 He,

00:30:01.660 in his mind,

00:30:02.760 well,

00:30:03.280 he was pro-pornography.

00:30:04.680 He felt that

00:30:05.940 kids needed

00:30:07.180 to see,

00:30:08.420 in order to

00:30:09.180 develop normally

00:30:10.640 in terms of

00:30:11.860 their sexuality,

00:30:13.360 he believed

00:30:14.260 that all

00:30:15.740 children needed

00:30:17.000 to be exposed

00:30:18.320 to graphic

00:30:19.340 sexual images.

00:30:21.320 And he was

00:30:21.760 also,

00:30:22.460 for incest,

00:30:23.400 he was publicly

00:30:24.300 pro-incest.

00:30:25.380 So,

00:30:25.840 this is a wicked

00:30:26.720 guy.

00:30:28.020 We're talking

00:30:28.360 about a wicked

00:30:29.160 person.

00:30:30.360 That's fair

00:30:31.100 to say.

00:30:31.580 I think that's

00:30:32.800 fair to say.

00:30:33.660 It is fair.

00:30:34.580 So,

00:30:34.960 I think the

00:30:35.620 thing that

00:30:36.000 Francis is

00:30:36.540 trying to

00:30:36.880 get at is,

00:30:37.960 how does

00:30:38.580 this person

00:30:39.400 remain in

00:30:40.560 all our lives

00:30:41.660 to this day

00:30:42.560 with his

00:30:43.080 crazy theories

00:30:44.180 that are now

00:30:45.520 being taught

00:30:46.220 in school,

00:30:47.140 that are now

00:30:47.780 creating clinics?

00:30:49.760 I mean,

00:30:50.220 why is this

00:30:50.840 continuing?

00:30:51.600 And your

00:30:52.100 profession,

00:30:52.740 you are,

00:30:54.040 to my

00:30:54.680 understanding at

00:30:55.480 least,

00:30:55.940 a bit of an

00:30:56.540 outlier.

00:30:56.960 many people

00:30:57.620 in your

00:30:57.980 profession

00:30:58.400 believe that

00:30:59.180 children who

00:31:00.400 say that

00:31:01.000 they're the

00:31:01.300 opposite sex

00:31:01.880 must be

00:31:02.240 affirmed.

00:31:03.440 Oh,

00:31:03.580 of course.

00:31:04.260 Well,

00:31:04.440 that's what

00:31:05.120 I'm,

00:31:05.500 of course,

00:31:06.000 that's what

00:31:06.380 my association

00:31:07.300 tells me to do

00:31:08.760 as well,

00:31:09.220 my professional

00:31:09.980 association,

00:31:10.880 obviously.

00:31:11.520 So,

00:31:11.720 do they not

00:31:12.140 know about

00:31:12.860 John Money's

00:31:13.460 failed experiment?

00:31:14.380 Do they not

00:31:14.800 care?

00:31:15.220 I mean,

00:31:15.440 how are we

00:31:16.020 here?

00:31:18.800 I would say

00:31:19.660 they don't

00:31:20.080 know.

00:31:21.240 I would say

00:31:22.460 that this

00:31:23.300 is already

00:31:23.840 so ingrained,

00:31:25.320 this whole

00:31:25.840 hoax has

00:31:28.100 become so

00:31:29.220 ingrained and

00:31:30.500 baked into

00:31:31.880 so many

00:31:33.340 institutions

00:31:34.260 that it's

00:31:37.200 really

00:31:37.540 difficult to

00:31:40.420 make any

00:31:41.120 sort of

00:31:41.600 headway and

00:31:43.360 make a

00:31:44.400 U-turn and

00:31:45.780 look at

00:31:46.320 this.

00:31:46.540 And I'll

00:31:46.760 tell you

00:31:47.040 something also

00:31:47.720 that's very

00:31:48.240 fascinating.

00:31:49.700 The book

00:31:50.640 that I am

00:31:51.120 telling you,

00:31:51.720 the book

00:31:52.340 from which

00:31:52.780 I learned

00:31:53.240 all this,

00:31:54.600 John Colapinto's

00:31:55.780 As Nature

00:31:56.760 Made Him,

00:31:58.500 that book

00:31:59.700 got an

00:32:00.680 award from

00:32:03.360 an LGBT

00:32:04.360 literary

00:32:06.120 association.

00:32:09.420 Like,

00:32:10.200 what?

00:32:12.040 Why?

00:32:12.940 Why?

00:32:13.780 Let me

00:32:14.240 explain.

00:32:16.220 You see,

00:32:17.140 the way that

00:32:17.720 they see

00:32:18.260 this case

00:32:19.100 of the

00:32:19.580 twins

00:32:19.980 is that

00:32:21.960 this is

00:32:22.700 how it's

00:32:23.260 they spin

00:32:23.840 it.

00:32:24.680 They say,

00:32:25.840 well,

00:32:26.760 David Reamer's

00:32:28.120 gender identity

00:32:29.840 was male.

00:32:32.980 And it

00:32:34.960 was put

00:32:35.520 upon him

00:32:36.460 that he

00:32:37.720 should be

00:32:38.180 female.

00:32:39.340 And so

00:32:40.520 that's an

00:32:41.000 example of

00:32:43.100 how gender

00:32:43.840 identity

00:32:44.360 is primary.

00:32:46.340 so they

00:32:48.040 don't say

00:32:48.540 biology.

00:32:49.780 They say

00:32:50.640 it's his

00:32:51.140 gender

00:32:51.660 identity

00:32:52.280 and the

00:32:53.320 poor boy

00:32:54.260 his parents

00:32:55.740 and everybody

00:32:56.420 was trying

00:32:57.080 to tell him

00:32:57.780 that he's a

00:32:58.680 girl,

00:32:59.000 but he

00:32:59.500 knew

00:32:59.980 his

00:33:01.000 psychological

00:33:02.080 sex

00:33:03.020 was that

00:33:04.040 he was

00:33:04.320 a boy.

00:33:04.760 And

00:33:07.380 Miriam,

00:33:08.780 we've

00:33:09.180 now,

00:33:09.800 like I

00:33:10.180 said,

00:33:10.500 fast forwarded

00:33:11.140 to 2023.

00:33:12.240 This thing

00:33:12.620 has exploded.

00:33:14.680 More and

00:33:15.420 more children

00:33:16.480 are identifying

00:33:17.360 as the

00:33:18.140 opposite sex.

00:33:19.580 In your

00:33:20.400 opinion,

00:33:21.540 how have we

00:33:22.320 got to this

00:33:23.100 point?

00:33:24.000 It's

00:33:24.380 spreading a

00:33:25.480 theory,

00:33:25.860 but there's

00:33:26.200 something far

00:33:27.140 deeper going

00:33:27.840 on societally,

00:33:28.680 isn't there?

00:33:29.880 Well,

00:33:30.220 of course,

00:33:30.840 and I do

00:33:31.320 explain just

00:33:32.200 as a

00:33:32.520 continuation of

00:33:33.420 your last

00:33:33.880 question of

00:33:34.600 how did

00:33:34.900 this happen

00:33:35.520 once we

00:33:36.060 knew about

00:33:36.620 David Reamer

00:33:37.360 and about

00:33:37.980 John Money's

00:33:38.680 fraudulent

00:33:39.280 research.

00:33:41.340 You see,

00:33:42.620 I explain

00:33:44.100 in my book

00:33:44.800 how slowly

00:33:45.580 through the

00:33:46.200 years,

00:33:47.340 this idea

00:33:48.120 of gender

00:33:48.780 identity

00:33:49.320 being primary,

00:33:52.000 more important

00:33:52.680 than biology,

00:33:54.760 that sex

00:33:55.820 is on a

00:33:56.380 spectrum,

00:33:57.180 that gender

00:33:58.420 and sex

00:33:59.000 started to

00:33:59.600 be used

00:34:00.180 as synonyms.

00:34:01.200 That was a

00:34:01.600 very important

00:34:02.280 thing that

00:34:02.760 happened.

00:34:03.980 But I

00:34:04.980 focus especially

00:34:06.400 on what

00:34:07.320 happened in

00:34:07.900 psychiatry.

00:34:09.700 Okay,

00:34:09.900 because really,

00:34:11.180 I mean,

00:34:11.580 we're the

00:34:11.860 ones that

00:34:13.280 come out

00:34:13.660 and say

00:34:13.940 what's a

00:34:14.320 disorder

00:34:14.720 and what

00:34:15.080 is not.

00:34:16.540 And we're

00:34:17.240 the ones

00:34:17.760 that every

00:34:18.440 10 or 15

00:34:19.320 years comes

00:34:20.080 out with a

00:34:20.600 new manual,

00:34:22.520 you know,

00:34:22.800 the DSM.

00:34:24.200 We're now

00:34:25.000 up to DSM-5,

00:34:26.540 which was

00:34:27.080 written in

00:34:27.860 2013.

00:34:29.700 And so it's

00:34:30.640 on our

00:34:31.260 shoulders,

00:34:31.840 right?

00:34:32.880 Psychiatrists

00:34:33.400 and psychologists

00:34:34.360 get together,

00:34:36.460 talk,

00:34:37.180 look at the

00:34:37.640 research,

00:34:38.440 well,

00:34:38.660 they're supposed

00:34:38.980 to look at

00:34:39.400 the research,

00:34:39.980 and make a

00:34:41.020 decision about

00:34:41.800 what's going to

00:34:42.300 be a disorder

00:34:42.960 and what

00:34:43.320 isn't.

00:34:44.460 So what

00:34:45.060 happened regarding

00:34:45.960 this particular

00:34:46.860 situation is

00:34:49.260 that we knew

00:34:50.860 in psychiatry

00:34:51.900 for a long,

00:34:52.820 long time

00:34:53.340 that there

00:34:54.380 were extremely

00:34:55.400 rare individuals

00:34:56.460 that had

00:34:57.180 gender dysphoria,

00:34:58.440 which is

00:34:58.820 an intense

00:34:59.800 discomfort with

00:35:01.340 your sex.

00:35:03.420 And we knew

00:35:04.480 that they

00:35:04.840 basically fell

00:35:05.720 into two

00:35:06.420 categories.

00:35:07.520 I'm oversimplifying,

00:35:09.120 but let's say

00:35:10.120 two categories.

00:35:11.500 One were

00:35:12.240 little boys

00:35:13.140 who,

00:35:14.200 at the age

00:35:14.720 of two or

00:35:15.380 three or

00:35:15.820 four,

00:35:17.660 would come to

00:35:18.220 their parents

00:35:18.860 and say,

00:35:19.480 I'm not a

00:35:19.920 boy,

00:35:20.280 I'm a girl,

00:35:21.680 you know,

00:35:21.940 I desperately,

00:35:23.340 you know,

00:35:23.560 I want to grow

00:35:24.380 a penis,

00:35:25.120 things like

00:35:25.560 that.

00:35:26.320 And we know

00:35:26.920 that those

00:35:27.420 kids,

00:35:28.420 if they are

00:35:29.140 watched carefully

00:35:30.280 and given

00:35:30.920 support,

00:35:31.920 the vast

00:35:32.440 majority of

00:35:33.260 them,

00:35:33.900 if they go

00:35:34.560 through

00:35:34.880 puberty,

00:35:35.780 normal puberty,

00:35:37.200 not synthetic

00:35:37.900 puberty,

00:35:38.720 will outgrow

00:35:39.720 their gender

00:35:40.260 dysphoria.

00:35:41.200 The other

00:35:41.820 group of

00:35:42.340 people that

00:35:42.800 we always

00:35:43.240 knew about

00:35:43.840 were middle-aged

00:35:45.500 heterosexual

00:35:46.300 men who

00:35:47.560 enjoyed cross-dressing

00:35:49.160 and after

00:35:50.600 having families

00:35:51.600 would sometimes

00:35:53.400 make the

00:35:53.920 decision to

00:35:55.340 live the

00:35:56.520 rest of

00:35:56.880 their lives

00:35:57.540 as a

00:35:58.420 female and

00:35:59.120 perhaps get

00:35:59.880 the medical

00:36:00.620 treatment.

00:36:01.240 So those

00:36:01.560 were the

00:36:01.840 two groups.

00:36:03.360 Now,

00:36:04.080 very rare,

00:36:05.660 again.

00:36:06.640 So what

00:36:07.380 happened is

00:36:08.240 that when

00:36:09.920 it came

00:36:10.300 time,

00:36:11.340 okay,

00:36:11.800 so there

00:36:12.240 was a

00:36:12.660 diagnosis

00:36:13.220 in the

00:36:13.800 DSM

00:36:14.440 called

00:36:14.880 gender

00:36:15.480 identity

00:36:16.300 disorder.

00:36:17.940 And what

00:36:18.440 I just

00:36:18.800 described to

00:36:19.540 you about

00:36:20.100 those two

00:36:20.600 groups,

00:36:21.780 they had

00:36:22.560 gender

00:36:23.040 identity

00:36:23.720 disorder

00:36:24.860 with the

00:36:25.500 emphasis on

00:36:26.200 disorder.

00:36:27.780 Now,

00:36:28.500 society was

00:36:29.720 changing,

00:36:30.380 culture was

00:36:30.980 changing,

00:36:31.820 and there

00:36:32.600 were,

00:36:33.120 you know,

00:36:33.420 in the

00:36:33.920 universities

00:36:34.580 and in

00:36:35.540 sex education,

00:36:36.620 big,

00:36:37.180 big thing.

00:36:37.900 I'm not

00:36:38.740 going to have

00:36:39.020 time to talk

00:36:39.560 to you about

00:36:39.920 sex education,

00:36:40.980 but this

00:36:41.820 was a

00:36:42.320 major,

00:36:43.080 major influence

00:36:44.560 and pipeline

00:36:45.520 into these

00:36:47.000 kids'

00:36:47.360 minds.

00:36:48.780 So all

00:36:50.380 these changes

00:36:51.120 were happening

00:36:51.800 and essentially

00:36:52.640 they were,

00:36:54.240 you know,

00:36:54.780 without psychiatry

00:36:56.980 even putting

00:36:57.900 their stamp

00:36:58.500 of approval

00:36:59.100 on the

00:36:59.760 idea that

00:37:01.140 gender identity

00:37:02.760 is more

00:37:03.400 important than

00:37:04.080 biology and

00:37:05.440 that you can

00:37:05.920 have an

00:37:06.540 identity separate

00:37:08.120 from your

00:37:08.580 biology at

00:37:09.520 odds with

00:37:10.400 your biology

00:37:11.060 and that

00:37:11.540 that is not

00:37:12.380 pathology.

00:37:13.560 That does not

00:37:14.540 represent

00:37:15.160 psychopathology.

00:37:16.100 that idea

00:37:17.120 was already

00:37:18.180 swirling around

00:37:19.340 and was

00:37:19.760 actually accepted.

00:37:21.380 I went to

00:37:22.100 a lecture,

00:37:23.120 I think it

00:37:23.480 was in

00:37:23.800 2006,

00:37:26.260 and a

00:37:26.960 psychiatrist,

00:37:28.700 was it a

00:37:30.020 psychiatrist?

00:37:30.540 It was a

00:37:30.900 medical doctor

00:37:31.640 stood up

00:37:32.280 and gave

00:37:34.460 a lecture

00:37:34.960 on if

00:37:36.080 you have

00:37:36.800 someone that

00:37:37.480 comes to

00:37:37.900 your office

00:37:38.500 and wants

00:37:39.540 to go on

00:37:40.280 hormones and

00:37:41.960 get surgeries

00:37:43.220 in order to

00:37:44.220 live as the

00:37:44.840 opposite sex,

00:37:46.100 our job as

00:37:47.100 doctors is to

00:37:48.100 give it to

00:37:48.520 them.

00:37:49.520 Our job as

00:37:50.540 doctors is not

00:37:51.400 to examine or

00:37:53.920 do what they

00:37:54.520 call gatekeeping,

00:37:56.440 send the person

00:37:58.100 for psychotherapy.

00:38:00.060 Our job is to

00:38:01.680 accept what

00:38:02.420 they're saying

00:38:03.060 and to

00:38:04.040 rubber stamp

00:38:04.900 their diagnosis

00:38:06.120 and do what

00:38:07.280 they wish.

00:38:08.220 Now, that was

00:38:08.680 back in 2006,

00:38:11.180 and I explain

00:38:12.180 all this in the

00:38:12.820 book.

00:38:13.060 So this was

00:38:13.860 already happening,

00:38:14.740 and there were

00:38:15.720 a lot of

00:38:16.360 people in

00:38:17.060 psychiatry and

00:38:17.860 in psychology

00:38:18.680 who believed

00:38:19.960 that we should

00:38:20.920 simply be

00:38:22.620 rubber stamping

00:38:24.180 and what they

00:38:26.280 wouldn't call it

00:38:26.820 rubber stamping.

00:38:27.580 They would say

00:38:28.040 that it's the

00:38:29.020 person's civil

00:38:30.160 right and that

00:38:31.000 this is respecting

00:38:32.160 them and

00:38:32.780 respecting their

00:38:33.620 identity.

00:38:34.080 And so by

00:38:35.560 the time that

00:38:36.940 it came to

00:38:37.600 be for

00:38:38.700 psychiatrists and

00:38:40.620 psychologists to

00:38:41.600 write a new

00:38:42.860 DSM, the

00:38:44.240 pressure was

00:38:45.120 very, very

00:38:45.820 high, not

00:38:47.120 only to

00:38:47.800 eliminate this

00:38:48.640 diagnosis as

00:38:49.580 a disorder, but

00:38:50.520 to take it out

00:38:51.320 altogether.

00:38:52.640 So it

00:38:53.420 shouldn't even

00:38:54.400 be part of

00:38:55.440 this manual

00:38:57.100 of psychiatric

00:38:59.040 disorders or

00:39:00.420 conditions.

00:39:01.880 Miriam, this

00:39:02.400 is why I asked

00:39:03.260 you right at

00:39:04.260 the beginning

00:39:04.720 about the

00:39:05.340 concept of

00:39:05.980 gender itself

00:39:06.740 because, and

00:39:07.640 I'm not a

00:39:08.200 psychiatrist as

00:39:09.020 you can imagine,

00:39:09.820 so correct me

00:39:10.820 on everything I'm

00:39:11.500 saying, but it

00:39:12.760 seems to me as

00:39:13.640 we've looked at

00:39:14.320 this issue and

00:39:14.920 talked to

00:39:15.280 different people

00:39:15.900 that a lot of

00:39:17.320 the conversation

00:39:18.280 we're having

00:39:19.000 stems from the

00:39:19.940 invention of this

00:39:21.100 concept of

00:39:21.780 gender.

00:39:22.640 And if we

00:39:23.180 were to say,

00:39:24.620 yes, some

00:39:25.640 people feel a

00:39:26.420 discomfort with

00:39:27.200 the biological

00:39:27.800 sex that they

00:39:28.780 are, and

00:39:29.800 yes, that is

00:39:30.780 something that

00:39:31.740 causes them

00:39:33.140 distress, that

00:39:35.040 is something that

00:39:35.980 they can seek

00:39:36.760 psychiatric help

00:39:37.800 for, and

00:39:38.360 maybe for some

00:39:39.240 of those people

00:39:39.920 living as the

00:39:41.260 opposite sex may

00:39:42.280 be the right

00:39:42.820 solution.

00:39:43.600 But that does

00:39:44.340 not mean that

00:39:45.460 this mythical

00:39:46.180 concept of

00:39:47.100 gender identity

00:39:48.260 exists.

00:39:50.240 Why can't we

00:39:51.240 say that?

00:39:51.620 Because you

00:39:51.980 said to me you

00:39:52.540 don't agree with

00:39:53.220 that earlier.

00:39:54.060 Why can't we

00:39:54.700 say that?

00:39:55.480 Is it

00:39:55.840 incorrect?

00:39:56.200 Well, listen,

00:39:59.400 the questions

00:40:00.240 can't even be

00:40:01.360 asked because

00:40:02.280 there is a

00:40:02.980 tyranny in the

00:40:04.980 organizations now.

00:40:07.420 But I'm asking

00:40:08.380 you.

00:40:09.080 I'm asking you.

00:40:10.040 Oh.

00:40:11.120 Well, of course

00:40:11.820 that is the,

00:40:12.860 of course what

00:40:13.960 you just said

00:40:14.600 is correct,

00:40:16.380 that we have to

00:40:17.060 acknowledge that

00:40:17.940 there are rare

00:40:18.780 people, they

00:40:19.500 used to be rare,

00:40:21.060 that do have

00:40:22.220 this disorder,

00:40:23.060 and they deserve

00:40:23.880 our compassion,

00:40:24.980 and they deserve

00:40:25.540 our understanding,

00:40:27.360 and yes, some

00:40:28.080 of them, yes,

00:40:29.000 some of them do

00:40:30.120 require these

00:40:31.580 interventions.

00:40:32.780 Absolutely they

00:40:33.660 do.

00:40:33.900 I'm not denying

00:40:35.100 that.

00:40:36.320 What I am saying

00:40:37.320 is that what we

00:40:38.860 are now doing is

00:40:40.100 that teaching

00:40:41.340 preschoolers,

00:40:42.720 three-year-olds,

00:40:44.460 that they may

00:40:45.320 have been born

00:40:45.920 in the wrong

00:40:46.420 body, and that

00:40:47.280 that's perfectly

00:40:47.960 normal, and

00:40:48.840 that if they,

00:40:49.900 you know, and

00:40:51.360 that if they

00:40:51.920 wish to

00:40:53.100 live as the

00:40:55.520 opposite sex,

00:40:56.440 and they wish

00:40:56.880 they would

00:40:57.780 rather be

00:40:59.160 boys, you

00:41:00.220 get to pick,

00:41:02.020 and whatever

00:41:02.480 you pick, we're

00:41:03.460 going with it,

00:41:04.160 all the adults

00:41:04.800 are going, I

00:41:05.320 mean, you

00:41:06.100 know, this is

00:41:06.740 just, you

00:41:07.820 know, it's

00:41:09.020 just appalling,

00:41:09.840 it's astonishing,

00:41:10.940 it's, I don't

00:41:12.320 know that I

00:41:13.080 have the right

00:41:13.660 words to

00:41:14.360 express how

00:41:15.060 destructive this

00:41:16.160 is, and

00:41:17.220 destabilizing to

00:41:18.700 a little child

00:41:19.700 to introduce

00:41:20.900 in their minds

00:41:22.060 the idea that

00:41:23.420 they may be

00:41:23.940 in the wrong

00:41:24.500 body, that is

00:41:25.640 destabilizing, that

00:41:27.040 is destructive, we

00:41:28.660 don't want any

00:41:29.620 child to feel

00:41:31.600 disembodied, to

00:41:33.520 feel like

00:41:34.520 something's wrong

00:41:36.020 about how they

00:41:36.660 were made, this

00:41:37.540 is destabilizing,

00:41:39.120 this is awful,

00:41:40.420 this is not what

00:41:41.240 we should be doing

00:41:42.000 for our children,

00:41:43.360 but let me just

00:41:44.100 add, I'm sorry, I

00:41:45.180 didn't finish with

00:41:45.900 the DSM, so

00:41:47.440 there were people

00:41:48.100 that felt it

00:41:48.920 needed to be

00:41:49.560 completely removed,

00:41:50.620 removed, so

00:41:51.220 why did it, why

00:41:51.920 was it kept

00:41:52.500 in, and I'll

00:41:53.140 explain why it

00:41:54.360 was kept in, it

00:41:56.300 was for two

00:41:57.020 reasons, it

00:41:58.520 was kept in

00:41:59.340 because the

00:42:00.300 doctors who

00:42:01.680 were involved

00:42:02.560 were compassionate,

00:42:07.280 and they felt

00:42:08.420 badly, they felt

00:42:12.000 empathy for their

00:42:13.380 patients and for

00:42:14.460 these individuals

00:42:15.260 who have

00:42:15.760 difficult lives,

00:42:17.260 and there is

00:42:18.500 stigma against

00:42:19.440 them, and

00:42:20.440 they felt that

00:42:21.700 by making

00:42:22.340 this, taking

00:42:23.700 out the

00:42:24.300 disorder category,

00:42:26.320 and no longer

00:42:27.180 calling it a

00:42:27.920 disorder, but

00:42:29.340 emphasizing instead

00:42:30.600 of the identity

00:42:31.360 part of it, the

00:42:32.880 incongruence of the

00:42:34.000 identity, they are

00:42:35.560 emphasizing the

00:42:36.960 distress that they

00:42:38.240 feel, so they

00:42:39.860 shifted the focus.

00:42:41.540 Absolutely, and

00:42:43.680 on the one

00:42:46.000 hand, I'm

00:42:46.600 listening to

00:42:47.080 this, and I'm

00:42:47.620 going, that is

00:42:48.600 compassion and

00:42:49.360 empathetic, on

00:42:51.140 the other hand,

00:42:52.100 that is a

00:42:52.660 fundamental denial

00:42:53.680 of reality and

00:42:54.560 biology, and at

00:42:56.640 some point, the

00:42:58.760 medical industry, the

00:42:59.820 psychiatric industry,

00:43:01.400 they're going to face

00:43:02.200 a day of reckoning,

00:43:03.100 aren't they, Miriam?

00:43:03.840 Because, to be

00:43:04.680 brutally honest,

00:43:06.140 there's a lot of

00:43:07.180 young people and

00:43:08.100 children who have

00:43:09.580 had medical

00:43:10.120 interventions that

00:43:12.820 are irreversible and

00:43:14.180 highly damaging, and

00:43:15.360 which they shouldn't

00:43:16.140 have had.

00:43:17.300 Well, that day of

00:43:18.500 reckoning, it, you

00:43:20.500 know, the lawsuits

00:43:21.460 have started, you

00:43:24.300 had the Cass

00:43:25.240 report, and the

00:43:28.120 closing, the

00:43:29.540 imminent closing

00:43:30.380 of Tavistock, the

00:43:32.120 GID service, so

00:43:33.240 the day of

00:43:34.200 reckoning in the

00:43:35.700 US is certainly

00:43:36.880 coming, and I

00:43:39.000 have to say, I

00:43:39.560 look forward to

00:43:40.460 it, I've been

00:43:41.460 waiting for it for

00:43:42.260 a long time, I

00:43:43.560 want to add one

00:43:44.320 thing, just because I

00:43:45.100 want to be thorough.

00:43:46.380 The other reason

00:43:47.600 that the diagnosis

00:43:48.700 was kept in the

00:43:49.880 DSM was in order

00:43:51.780 for it to have a

00:43:53.100 code for insurance

00:43:54.860 purposes, because

00:43:56.380 these individuals, of

00:43:57.700 course, need

00:43:58.780 psychiatric help and

00:44:01.320 psychological help,

00:44:02.500 and some of them are

00:44:03.340 going to go for the

00:44:04.020 medical interventions,

00:44:04.920 you need to have a

00:44:06.720 code for the

00:44:08.420 insurance to

00:44:09.260 reimburse you.

00:44:11.020 So, Miriam, what

00:44:12.540 we've done is we've

00:44:13.600 identified the two

00:44:15.040 groups that

00:44:16.360 historically

00:44:17.260 transitioned, which

00:44:18.840 is the young

00:44:19.620 children, and we're

00:44:20.980 talking about the

00:44:22.080 adult males, adult

00:44:23.040 heterosexual males.

00:44:24.380 What we haven't

00:44:25.460 addressed is the

00:44:26.940 young girls, which

00:44:28.240 now seems to be

00:44:30.620 almost the majority

00:44:31.860 of people.

00:44:33.020 In your opinion, what

00:44:34.800 is happening there

00:44:36.060 and why?

00:44:38.040 So, we have a new

00:44:39.340 group, a new

00:44:40.340 demographic, as you

00:44:41.540 mentioned, mostly

00:44:43.080 girls, still a lot of

00:44:44.620 boys.

00:44:45.340 It's not like it's

00:44:46.340 90-10.

00:44:47.360 It's more like maybe

00:44:48.580 60-40.

00:44:49.780 There's still an awful

00:44:50.600 lot of boys.

00:44:51.360 So, this new

00:44:55.980 group, you know, was

00:44:57.200 only recently

00:44:58.040 identified in

00:44:59.240 2018.

00:44:59.920 We had Lisa

00:45:01.000 Littman do the

00:45:02.720 research and

00:45:03.660 coin the term

00:45:05.840 rapid onset

00:45:07.740 gender dysphoria.

00:45:09.800 And it turned

00:45:11.400 into a

00:45:11.900 controversial term,

00:45:13.200 and there was,

00:45:13.780 you know, a lot

00:45:14.780 of, you know,

00:45:16.980 it's just

00:45:17.520 unbelievable

00:45:18.360 what's going on,

00:45:19.360 the resistance

00:45:20.560 on the left

00:45:22.140 to fight

00:45:23.380 any shred

00:45:25.700 of evidence

00:45:26.660 that their

00:45:27.240 theories and

00:45:28.160 their beliefs

00:45:29.920 about how to

00:45:31.380 treat these

00:45:32.140 kids is wrong.

00:45:33.960 But anyway, to

00:45:34.780 answer your

00:45:35.220 question, this is

00:45:36.140 a group of a

00:45:37.180 majority being

00:45:39.260 young girls

00:45:40.900 who never

00:45:43.660 before expressed

00:45:45.120 any discomfort

00:45:46.060 with being a

00:45:46.820 girl, and

00:45:48.860 who, over a

00:45:50.260 short period

00:45:50.980 of time, and

00:45:52.520 following

00:45:53.120 immersion in

00:45:54.840 the internet

00:45:56.400 and social

00:45:57.940 media, and

00:45:59.960 most of them

00:46:01.300 also have

00:46:02.920 a lot of

00:46:04.540 at least one

00:46:05.860 or multiple

00:46:06.880 pre-existing

00:46:08.400 psychiatric

00:46:09.320 problems.

00:46:10.940 So, by that I

00:46:11.740 mean a lot of

00:46:12.800 them are on the

00:46:13.440 autism spectrum.

00:46:15.060 They have

00:46:15.760 anxiety disorders.

00:46:16.960 they have

00:46:17.920 social phobia,

00:46:19.880 depression.

00:46:20.980 They may have

00:46:21.900 self-injury.

00:46:23.220 They may be

00:46:23.680 cutting themselves.

00:46:25.220 They may

00:46:25.860 have undergone

00:46:28.040 or gone

00:46:28.800 through some

00:46:29.400 trauma in

00:46:30.220 their life.

00:46:31.860 And so,

00:46:32.740 these are

00:46:33.160 girls, and

00:46:34.280 I'm not going

00:46:35.040 to say just

00:46:35.540 girls, because

00:46:36.140 there's a lot

00:46:37.160 of people

00:46:37.560 actually dismiss

00:46:38.820 the boys, and

00:46:39.480 I'm not going

00:46:39.980 to do that.

00:46:40.920 I've seen too

00:46:41.580 many boys in

00:46:42.200 my office and

00:46:42.880 talked to too

00:46:43.480 many parents of

00:46:44.240 boys to do

00:46:44.840 that.

00:46:45.920 There's a ton

00:46:46.740 of boys that

00:46:47.360 are in this

00:46:47.860 also.

00:46:49.060 So, they are

00:46:51.080 led to believe

00:46:52.040 that if they

00:46:56.000 don't feel

00:46:56.480 comfortable with

00:46:57.300 themselves, if

00:46:58.600 they don't like

00:46:59.240 getting their

00:46:59.680 periods, they

00:47:00.440 don't fit in

00:47:01.000 with their

00:47:01.360 friends, they're

00:47:02.100 not stereotypical

00:47:03.240 girls, perhaps

00:47:05.260 they're attracted

00:47:06.180 romantically to

00:47:07.300 other girls,

00:47:07.920 there's many

00:47:08.440 different things

00:47:09.080 that could be

00:47:09.520 going on here.

00:47:10.300 well then, you

00:47:12.180 might be a

00:47:13.220 boy.

00:47:14.620 And, of

00:47:15.260 course, you

00:47:15.860 get a lot

00:47:16.480 of points,

00:47:18.920 your status is

00:47:20.100 elevated when

00:47:21.180 you come out

00:47:21.900 as non-male

00:47:23.740 or female.

00:47:24.840 I don't use

00:47:25.520 the word

00:47:25.880 cisgender, because

00:47:26.920 that's part of

00:47:27.660 the lexicon that

00:47:28.620 I refuse to

00:47:29.460 use.

00:47:31.140 If you come

00:47:32.100 out to your

00:47:32.800 friends as

00:47:34.560 being neither

00:47:35.220 male or

00:47:35.760 female, you're

00:47:38.080 kind of an

00:47:38.600 elevated status,

00:47:39.600 and not only

00:47:40.260 that, but

00:47:41.320 you are no

00:47:41.980 longer, you

00:47:42.840 see, if you

00:47:44.000 are a white

00:47:45.000 heterosexual

00:47:46.040 middle class or

00:47:47.980 upper class

00:47:48.880 student, you're

00:47:52.200 an oppressor.

00:47:53.760 I mean, this is

00:47:54.580 a whole other

00:47:55.100 subject, right?

00:47:56.960 One with which

00:47:57.800 we're quite

00:47:58.200 familiar, Miriam,

00:47:59.100 believe me.

00:48:00.320 Okay.

00:48:01.240 So, you don't

00:48:02.180 want to be an

00:48:02.700 oppressor.

00:48:03.880 Yeah.

00:48:04.580 You want to be

00:48:05.200 oppressed.

00:48:06.300 You don't want

00:48:06.780 to be an

00:48:07.100 oppressor.

00:48:07.500 So, if you

00:48:09.540 are a member

00:48:10.300 of a sexual

00:48:11.080 minority, and

00:48:12.780 you know, or

00:48:14.160 another minority,

00:48:15.440 you can't change

00:48:16.260 your race.

00:48:17.300 You can't change

00:48:18.360 your socioeconomic

00:48:19.480 status.

00:48:20.880 You can't change,

00:48:23.240 you know, you're

00:48:23.680 not going to come

00:48:24.680 out and say you're

00:48:25.420 gay or lesbian if

00:48:27.220 you're not.

00:48:28.380 But to say that

00:48:29.800 you're neither male

00:48:30.680 or female, okay.

00:48:32.960 I mean, after all,

00:48:33.900 you know, we're all

00:48:34.600 mosaics.

00:48:35.920 This is me

00:48:36.540 speaking now.

00:48:37.480 This is the truth.

00:48:38.480 I'm not saying that

00:48:39.420 this is what these

00:48:40.180 kids say.

00:48:41.820 You know, I could

00:48:43.220 wake up one day and

00:48:44.540 be feeling more, I

00:48:46.360 don't know, ambitious

00:48:47.360 and aggressive and

00:48:49.220 like, I'm going to

00:48:49.760 go and do this.

00:48:50.960 And I could say,

00:48:52.500 oh, I'm feeling

00:48:53.500 masculine today.

00:48:55.840 Maybe I'm

00:48:56.580 non-binary.

00:48:58.700 I mean, that is

00:49:02.780 why that was my

00:49:03.560 first thought when

00:49:04.300 you joined the

00:49:04.820 call, Miriam.

00:49:05.620 But listen, I want

00:49:07.280 to ask you about

00:49:08.820 obviously what you're

00:49:10.660 saying makes a lot

00:49:11.960 of sense to us.

00:49:14.760 How have your views

00:49:16.240 been received by

00:49:17.860 your colleagues and

00:49:19.600 how have you found

00:49:21.100 speaking about these

00:49:22.360 issues, which you

00:49:24.140 did actually much

00:49:25.040 earlier than most

00:49:25.600 people from 2009

00:49:26.840 onwards?

00:49:27.860 What impact has

00:49:28.660 that had?

00:49:29.200 How easy has it

00:49:29.860 been to publish

00:49:30.440 your books, etc.?

00:49:32.160 It's not been

00:49:36.080 hard to publish my

00:49:37.180 books, but I do

00:49:38.980 have to go to

00:49:39.720 those publishers

00:49:40.460 that believe in

00:49:43.220 free speech.

00:49:46.040 So you've got a

00:49:46.800 choice of two.

00:49:47.400 And the book

00:49:50.740 You're Teaching My

00:49:51.720 Child What?

00:49:52.560 that warned

00:49:53.760 parents about

00:49:54.740 sex education.

00:49:56.640 And I just want

00:49:57.620 to emphasize, you

00:49:58.320 know, I write

00:49:58.880 these books as a

00:49:59.860 medical professional.

00:50:01.520 So my books

00:50:03.200 provide science.

00:50:05.640 They provide

00:50:06.200 medical information.

00:50:08.240 This isn't, you

00:50:09.320 know, my beliefs

00:50:11.220 as a religious

00:50:13.340 person, which I

00:50:14.640 am.

00:50:15.080 These are

00:50:16.700 medical facts.

00:50:19.580 And so you're

00:50:21.760 asking about the

00:50:22.600 response.

00:50:24.100 Well, my 2009

00:50:27.200 book was

00:50:30.140 considered, of

00:50:31.320 course, politically

00:50:32.080 incorrect.

00:50:33.440 And so it was

00:50:34.460 only picked

00:50:36.640 up by

00:50:37.900 organizations that

00:50:40.000 are conservative,

00:50:43.080 you know,

00:50:43.620 religious

00:50:45.700 organizations,

00:50:48.080 and so on.

00:50:50.040 So, I mean, I

00:50:51.220 did have some

00:50:52.600 success, not

00:50:53.820 anywhere near as

00:50:54.980 what I still

00:50:57.000 believe it

00:50:57.780 deserved.

00:50:58.680 The book is

00:50:59.400 coming out again,

00:51:00.340 actually, it's

00:51:01.220 very interesting

00:51:01.820 that now that I

00:51:02.480 have this book

00:51:03.060 coming out, and

00:51:03.760 now that sex

00:51:05.060 education, finally,

00:51:07.240 finally, people

00:51:08.600 are realizing that

00:51:10.240 what their kids

00:51:10.840 are being told is

00:51:12.520 just, it's

00:51:15.860 wicked.

00:51:16.380 Again, we get

00:51:17.280 that word back

00:51:18.040 again.

00:51:19.280 I mean, what we're

00:51:20.000 exposing kids to at

00:51:21.220 a young age, and

00:51:22.760 the lies that we are

00:51:23.920 telling them, not

00:51:24.740 only about gender,

00:51:25.540 about other

00:51:25.940 things, but

00:51:26.600 finally, people are

00:51:28.700 waking up, and

00:51:29.480 parents are waking

00:51:30.400 up.

00:51:31.140 I hope in the, I

00:51:32.220 know in the U.S., I

00:51:34.000 don't know about the

00:51:34.720 U.K.

00:51:35.080 Oh, by the way, did

00:51:37.700 you know that I

00:51:38.240 spoke in the House

00:51:39.060 of Lords 11, 12

00:51:40.480 years ago?

00:51:41.560 We didn't?

00:51:42.160 No, we didn't.

00:51:43.260 There you go.

00:51:43.940 How would you

00:51:44.480 know?

00:51:45.440 Yeah.

00:51:46.180 There's a reason why

00:51:47.320 the leftists like you,

00:51:48.440 Miriam.

00:51:49.720 Right.

00:51:50.780 So, I spoke there

00:51:52.100 about sex education,

00:51:53.420 and oh boy, at that

00:51:54.460 time, your sex

00:51:56.220 education in the U.K.,

00:51:57.680 it was even worse

00:51:58.620 than ours.

00:52:00.700 When I say worse

00:52:02.100 than ours, if I

00:52:04.100 recall correctly, you

00:52:05.760 had websites, I'm

00:52:07.600 getting off topic a

00:52:08.580 little bit, but I

00:52:10.020 remember doing

00:52:10.700 research into your

00:52:11.880 sexuality education

00:52:13.080 there, and going

00:52:14.920 on to government

00:52:16.180 websites, you know,

00:52:18.480 or NGOs, you know,

00:52:20.260 NGO organizations

00:52:21.760 that are funded by

00:52:23.080 your government, and

00:52:24.660 there would be links

00:52:25.860 provided to the kids

00:52:28.100 that were on that

00:52:28.860 site of where to

00:52:30.540 go, like bars, where

00:52:32.060 to go for gay sex.

00:52:34.100 It just took, yeah.

00:52:37.720 I just, yeah, I mean,

00:52:40.100 whenever we touch upon

00:52:41.440 this subject, I find

00:52:43.620 it horrifying,

00:52:44.340 particularly as I, you

00:52:45.620 know, I used to be a

00:52:46.680 teacher and in

00:52:47.160 education.

00:52:48.940 I guess the question,

00:52:50.660 and the reason I

00:52:51.300 stopped you there is

00:52:52.140 because I'm going to

00:52:52.840 ask a question, which

00:52:54.180 it's an uncomfortable

00:52:56.100 one, but it's-

00:52:57.140 I know, but I didn't

00:52:57.760 answer.

00:52:58.440 Wait, do you want to

00:52:59.100 answer?

00:52:59.260 No, because it

00:53:01.720 provides a link into

00:53:03.000 the question that I'm

00:53:03.940 going to ask, which I

00:53:04.760 really, which I think

00:53:05.720 goes to the heart of

00:53:06.580 some of this stuff.

00:53:07.960 When I have looked at

00:53:09.780 some of these theories,

00:53:10.740 when I have looked at

00:53:11.840 the people who have

00:53:14.360 put forward these

00:53:15.300 theories, who have

00:53:15.860 created these theories,

00:53:17.600 there always seems to

00:53:19.020 be a link, and if I'm

00:53:19.980 wrong, please push back

00:53:21.120 on me.

00:53:21.540 I'm not putting words in

00:53:22.440 your mouth.

00:53:23.400 There seems to be a

00:53:24.340 link between these

00:53:26.160 types of theories and

00:53:28.060 pedophilia.

00:53:32.020 Am I wrong in making

00:53:34.100 that assertion, or is

00:53:36.660 it truth to what I'm

00:53:37.940 saying, and why is it

00:53:39.640 that we are not

00:53:40.440 actually shouting about

00:53:41.840 this from the rooftops

00:53:42.960 because it is a child

00:53:44.220 protection issue?

00:53:46.080 Some people are

00:53:47.240 shouting from the

00:53:48.160 rooftops.

00:53:49.000 As usual, they're

00:53:50.300 being silenced and not

00:53:52.280 given the microphone.

00:53:56.840 I would say that I

00:53:59.240 call what's going on

00:54:00.980 with kids grooming.

00:54:03.320 Okay, so let's define

00:54:05.020 what grooming is.

00:54:06.740 Grooming is the

00:54:08.100 emotional and

00:54:09.360 psychological manipulation

00:54:10.740 of a vulnerable

00:54:12.580 person with the goal

00:54:14.920 of exploiting them in

00:54:17.580 some way in the

00:54:18.560 future.

00:54:19.620 There is sexual

00:54:20.740 grooming.

00:54:21.320 There is

00:54:22.360 financial grooming.

00:54:24.100 And there is

00:54:25.000 ideological grooming.

00:54:27.160 Now, I believe that

00:54:29.000 with all of our

00:54:30.280 sexuality education

00:54:31.980 and gender education,

00:54:33.360 there is no doubt in

00:54:35.280 my mind that there is

00:54:37.080 sexual and

00:54:38.280 ideological grooming

00:54:40.140 that's going on.

00:54:41.460 And I'll explain a very

00:54:42.840 simple thing to you.

00:54:43.820 You see, if you have a

00:54:47.740 four or five-year-old

00:54:49.760 and they're in a

00:54:52.400 preschool group

00:54:53.400 and the teacher

00:54:56.440 begins to discuss

00:54:58.700 anatomically correct

00:55:03.280 names for the body.

00:55:05.380 And this is a huge thing,

00:55:08.840 you know, in sex education

00:55:10.540 that these little kids

00:55:11.920 need to know

00:55:12.920 penis and vulva

00:55:15.720 and clitoris

00:55:16.900 and testicles.

00:55:17.980 They all need to know

00:55:19.060 they shouldn't be using

00:55:20.760 childish names for those

00:55:22.400 parts of their bodies.

00:55:23.500 Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

00:55:24.840 That's a bad thing.

00:55:26.520 They need to know the terms,

00:55:28.240 the actual terms.

00:55:29.160 But you see,

00:55:30.920 when that begins,

00:55:32.780 what happens?

00:55:34.740 The message that the

00:55:35.880 child is given,

00:55:37.200 A,

00:55:38.080 is that

00:55:39.160 we can talk about

00:55:42.620 these very private

00:55:43.660 things

00:55:44.300 at school.

00:55:48.120 We should not feel

00:55:49.840 a sense of embarrassment.

00:55:51.440 If we feel

00:55:52.620 a drop of embarrassment,

00:55:54.240 we need to

00:55:55.380 deny that.

00:55:56.800 The teacher's talking

00:55:58.120 about these things,

00:55:59.160 she or he feels

00:56:01.200 very comfortable

00:56:02.120 talking about

00:56:03.020 a penis

00:56:04.020 and a vulva

00:56:04.840 and a clitoris.

00:56:06.120 I should also

00:56:07.440 be comfortable

00:56:08.220 with all my

00:56:09.700 classmates around me,

00:56:11.300 boys,

00:56:12.180 girls,

00:56:12.960 with this teacher

00:56:14.140 that I may have

00:56:15.060 just met

00:56:15.640 two weeks ago.

00:56:17.220 I'm supposed

00:56:18.200 to feel comfortable.

00:56:19.860 So that's called

00:56:20.860 desensitization.

00:56:23.500 And that is

00:56:24.980 the beginning

00:56:26.400 of grooming.

00:56:27.280 because

00:56:28.960 in order to

00:56:30.160 groom somebody,

00:56:31.240 that person

00:56:32.380 has to feel

00:56:33.140 comfortable with you

00:56:34.360 and has to

00:56:35.360 trust you.

00:56:37.500 So

00:56:38.140 when

00:56:39.120 our sex

00:56:40.100 educators

00:56:40.620 are telling us,

00:56:41.580 as they have

00:56:42.180 been for so long,

00:56:43.740 that these little

00:56:44.840 kids need

00:56:45.860 to learn

00:56:46.520 their anatomically

00:56:47.980 correct words

00:56:49.060 for their bodies,

00:56:50.740 and that's only

00:56:51.500 the beginning.

00:56:52.240 I mean,

00:56:52.440 they're telling

00:56:52.820 them about

00:56:53.440 anal sex

00:56:56.140 by the time

00:56:56.760 they're 10 years

00:56:57.580 old,

00:56:57.960 but let's put

00:56:58.580 that aside.

00:57:00.460 So it's a

00:57:01.480 form of

00:57:02.120 grooming.

00:57:04.640 It's a form

00:57:05.460 of,

00:57:06.580 at such a

00:57:07.380 young age,

00:57:08.120 the child

00:57:08.660 is supposed

00:57:09.240 to deny

00:57:10.200 their inborn

00:57:11.840 sense of

00:57:12.960 shame

00:57:14.500 or,

00:57:15.340 let's say,

00:57:15.980 embarrassment.

00:57:16.980 That's a normal

00:57:18.180 sense of

00:57:18.940 embarrassment.

00:57:19.420 That should be

00:57:20.420 there.

00:57:21.260 That's what

00:57:21.880 I'm arguing.

00:57:22.920 We want

00:57:23.940 our kids

00:57:24.460 to have

00:57:24.920 that.

00:57:26.060 And the

00:57:26.740 other message

00:57:27.500 that the

00:57:27.900 kids get

00:57:28.520 from the

00:57:29.780 teacher,

00:57:30.380 from that

00:57:30.820 whole thing

00:57:31.460 of learning

00:57:33.340 those words

00:57:34.220 and talking

00:57:34.700 about genitals,

00:57:36.180 is they get

00:57:37.400 the message

00:57:38.020 that it's

00:57:39.280 not at home

00:57:40.140 that I'm

00:57:40.560 going to learn

00:57:40.980 about these

00:57:41.520 things.

00:57:42.360 It's not

00:57:43.080 my parents

00:57:43.760 that are

00:57:44.060 the experts

00:57:44.820 that I need

00:57:45.880 to go to

00:57:46.560 for my

00:57:47.000 questions.

00:57:48.040 It's my

00:57:48.740 school.

00:57:49.260 It's my

00:57:49.560 teacher.

00:57:49.880 It's

00:57:50.860 people

00:57:51.200 outside.

00:57:53.200 And it's

00:57:53.660 a good

00:57:54.160 point,

00:57:54.580 and I

00:57:54.800 take your

00:57:55.260 point.

00:57:56.200 But let's

00:57:57.520 just go back

00:57:58.060 to my

00:57:58.440 initial

00:57:58.860 question

00:57:59.680 about

00:58:00.240 the,

00:58:01.500 you know,

00:58:02.100 we've brought

00:58:02.560 up John

00:58:02.960 Money.

00:58:03.780 I've read

00:58:04.500 and I've

00:58:04.800 heard about

00:58:05.240 other people

00:58:05.940 who have

00:58:06.200 propagated

00:58:06.740 these theories.

00:58:08.000 And again,

00:58:08.700 there was

00:58:09.300 the issue

00:58:10.000 of...

00:58:10.620 Oh,

00:58:10.920 I'll tie it

00:58:11.500 in.

00:58:12.140 Wait,

00:58:12.460 I'm going to

00:58:12.760 tie it in.

00:58:13.740 Okay,

00:58:14.120 go for it.

00:58:14.500 when a

00:58:15.600 child

00:58:16.240 has

00:58:17.600 internalized

00:58:19.620 that message

00:58:20.500 of I

00:58:21.800 can trust

00:58:22.400 this person,

00:58:23.320 this adult,

00:58:25.500 it's not

00:58:26.340 at home

00:58:26.920 that we

00:58:27.340 discuss

00:58:27.760 these issues.

00:58:29.400 I have

00:58:29.880 to deny

00:58:32.760 my internal

00:58:34.000 discomfort.

00:58:35.220 That is

00:58:36.580 making that

00:58:38.000 child more

00:58:38.840 available for

00:58:40.160 inappropriate

00:58:40.740 sexual behavior.

00:58:41.940 that's

00:58:44.880 how I'm

00:58:45.200 tying this

00:58:45.760 into the

00:58:46.200 pedophilia.

00:58:47.180 Does that

00:58:47.800 work for

00:58:48.180 you?

00:58:49.100 Yes,

00:58:49.640 but it

00:58:51.000 does,

00:58:51.480 and I get

00:58:51.980 what you're

00:58:52.300 saying,

00:58:52.780 and it's

00:58:53.100 a very

00:58:53.340 good point,

00:58:54.020 but I

00:58:54.780 was looking

00:58:55.300 at it

00:58:55.680 almost in

00:58:56.420 the case

00:58:56.900 of,

00:58:57.560 if we

00:58:57.920 look back

00:58:58.380 at it

00:58:58.620 historically,

00:58:59.340 a lot of

00:58:59.700 people who

00:59:00.240 have propagated

00:59:01.460 and created

00:59:02.360 these theories,

00:59:03.980 there is a

00:59:04.660 link,

00:59:05.060 is there

00:59:05.400 not,

00:59:05.900 or am I

00:59:07.600 misrepresenting

00:59:08.880 or simply

00:59:09.780 incorrect?

00:59:10.160 Yes,

00:59:10.320 there is a

00:59:11.340 link,

00:59:11.640 and the

00:59:12.680 link is

00:59:13.700 to destroy

00:59:16.120 any remnant

00:59:18.000 of any

00:59:18.480 Judeo-Christian

00:59:19.380 morality in

00:59:20.660 our society,

00:59:21.700 and that's

00:59:22.680 a part of

00:59:23.180 it,

00:59:23.940 you know,

00:59:25.000 the sexual

00:59:25.580 morality part

00:59:26.860 of it,

00:59:27.380 and again,

00:59:29.160 people like

00:59:29.740 John Money,

00:59:31.360 Alfred Kinsey,

00:59:32.520 who we didn't

00:59:33.200 discuss,

00:59:34.280 they promoted

00:59:35.260 also a

00:59:36.200 pedophile,

00:59:37.260 they want to

00:59:37.960 promote the

00:59:38.480 idea that we

00:59:39.460 are all

00:59:39.960 sexual from

00:59:40.760 cradle to

00:59:41.420 grave.

00:59:42.400 So if

00:59:42.900 children are

00:59:43.640 sexual,

00:59:44.380 well then,

00:59:44.940 why are we

00:59:45.780 preventing them

00:59:47.020 from engaging

00:59:47.720 in sexual

00:59:48.400 behavior with

00:59:49.220 adults?

00:59:49.780 I mean,

00:59:50.000 adults who

00:59:51.340 love them,

00:59:51.960 what's wrong

00:59:52.400 with that?

00:59:53.400 So it's all

00:59:54.200 part of

00:59:54.720 destroying the

00:59:55.840 morality that,

00:59:57.200 so yes,

00:59:57.960 I agree with

00:59:58.680 you,

00:59:59.300 there is a

00:59:59.960 link,

01:00:00.320 there is a

01:00:00.820 real link.

01:00:02.540 Miriam,

01:00:03.060 we're running

01:00:03.620 out of time,

01:00:04.540 I know that

01:00:05.320 one of the

01:00:05.740 things you're

01:00:06.360 keen to get

01:00:07.020 across in your

01:00:07.700 latest book is,

01:00:09.580 and we've

01:00:10.040 had people

01:00:10.580 who detransitioned

01:00:12.180 and people

01:00:12.540 who nearly

01:00:13.120 transitioned and

01:00:13.960 parents who

01:00:14.640 socially transitioned

01:00:15.480 their children on

01:00:16.280 the show,

01:00:17.040 but one of the

01:00:17.600 things you really

01:00:18.220 wanted to talk

01:00:18.960 about is,

01:00:20.560 and briefly,

01:00:21.920 is the impact

01:00:23.660 that gender

01:00:25.420 ideology and

01:00:26.640 its consequences

01:00:27.460 has on the

01:00:28.520 entire family

01:00:29.300 unit, not just

01:00:30.240 the individual

01:00:30.820 young person who

01:00:31.680 goes through

01:00:32.120 this.

01:00:32.440 Correct.

01:00:32.620 So tell us

01:00:33.260 in a couple

01:00:33.980 of minutes

01:00:34.580 what's going

01:00:36.100 on there.

01:00:36.540 Okay, okay.

01:00:37.540 I mean, I'll

01:00:38.300 just emphasize

01:00:39.060 that my book,

01:00:40.620 Lost in Transnation,

01:00:42.000 is a book for

01:00:42.780 families, for

01:00:43.600 parents.

01:00:44.120 It is not for

01:00:44.780 professionals.

01:00:46.040 It's for moms

01:00:46.800 and dads to be

01:00:48.780 able to inoculate

01:00:49.920 their families

01:00:50.720 against these

01:00:51.580 dangerous ideas

01:00:52.560 before they

01:00:53.820 have a problem,

01:00:55.160 before one of

01:00:56.180 their children

01:00:56.640 comes home and

01:00:57.400 says, Mom, Dad,

01:00:58.260 I'm not your

01:00:58.700 son, I'm your

01:00:59.200 daughter.

01:01:00.140 So it's very

01:01:01.160 practical advice.

01:01:02.640 I have

01:01:03.540 model conversations

01:01:05.780 that you can

01:01:06.360 have with your

01:01:06.900 child, a

01:01:08.020 model conversation

01:01:08.940 you can have

01:01:09.540 with a therapist

01:01:10.220 or the principal

01:01:11.060 of your school.

01:01:12.720 Now, the

01:01:13.180 impact, what

01:01:14.040 you just asked

01:01:14.760 me, the

01:01:15.380 impact on

01:01:16.020 families, you

01:01:18.840 know, we're

01:01:19.100 all focused on

01:01:20.060 the young

01:01:20.440 people, of

01:01:21.160 course we

01:01:21.880 are, of

01:01:22.620 course we're

01:01:23.060 focused on

01:01:23.620 them, they

01:01:24.100 are the

01:01:24.440 primary, that's

01:01:25.480 ground zero.

01:01:27.180 But we have

01:01:28.160 to also

01:01:28.640 acknowledge, and

01:01:29.560 what I've

01:01:29.920 seen over

01:01:31.280 these years

01:01:31.940 talking to

01:01:32.540 hundreds of

01:01:33.080 parents, is

01:01:35.120 this is, this

01:01:37.260 for many

01:01:38.180 parents, I

01:01:39.880 would say

01:01:40.980 maybe all

01:01:41.820 parents that

01:01:42.460 go through

01:01:42.860 this, it

01:01:44.180 is the most

01:01:45.020 difficult and

01:01:46.000 devastating

01:01:46.780 experience they've

01:01:47.820 had in their

01:01:48.260 lives.

01:01:49.140 I'm talking

01:01:49.860 about parents

01:01:50.580 who may have

01:01:51.000 gone through

01:01:51.500 cancer, financial

01:01:53.300 ruin, divorce,

01:01:56.060 9-11, what

01:01:57.900 have you,

01:01:58.580 COVID, and

01:02:00.160 yet seeing

01:02:01.040 their child

01:02:02.320 be recruited

01:02:06.260 by these, by

01:02:08.820 this ideology, by

01:02:09.960 this belief

01:02:10.540 system, and to

01:02:12.080 watch what it

01:02:12.940 does to their

01:02:13.640 child as their

01:02:15.380 child changes

01:02:16.380 before their

01:02:17.280 very eyes, even

01:02:18.540 prior to any

01:02:20.280 medicalization, they

01:02:21.340 see their child

01:02:22.220 changing before

01:02:23.080 their eyes, because

01:02:24.020 these children

01:02:24.600 change, and they

01:02:26.920 come under the

01:02:27.680 influence of

01:02:28.680 strangers, and

01:02:30.880 they, those

01:02:31.860 strangers place a

01:02:33.540 wedge between the

01:02:35.860 child and their

01:02:37.800 loving and devoted

01:02:38.900 parents, these are

01:02:40.420 not parents who

01:02:42.260 need to be reported

01:02:43.720 to Child

01:02:44.240 Protective

01:02:44.640 Services, and

01:02:45.880 trust me, as a

01:02:46.820 child psychiatrist, I

01:02:48.080 myself have

01:02:49.460 reported families to

01:02:50.720 Child Protective

01:02:51.300 Services in the

01:02:52.040 past, so I know

01:02:52.700 all about that, and

01:02:54.220 I know all about

01:02:55.080 families that cannot

01:02:56.920 raise a child, and

01:02:59.660 the child has to be

01:03:00.760 removed for safety

01:03:01.840 purposes, I know

01:03:03.080 about that, these

01:03:05.060 are loving and

01:03:06.020 devoted families, and

01:03:08.260 the child needs

01:03:09.320 their parents, and

01:03:10.660 their parents have

01:03:11.920 the right, the

01:03:12.760 constitutional right,

01:03:14.340 to direct their

01:03:16.920 child's upbringing,

01:03:19.100 their education, and

01:03:20.220 their medical care,

01:03:21.540 now, these

01:03:22.660 ideologues, these

01:03:24.480 people, at

01:03:25.940 school, pediatricians,

01:03:30.240 Child Protective

01:03:30.800 Services, you

01:03:33.620 know, like you

01:03:34.120 said, it's

01:03:34.540 everywhere, a

01:03:36.260 wedge is placed

01:03:37.780 in that

01:03:38.620 relationship, and

01:03:40.140 sometimes it's, the

01:03:41.460 wedge becomes too

01:03:42.580 big, and the

01:03:44.000 child is actually

01:03:45.000 estranged from the

01:03:46.260 family, but even

01:03:47.820 if the child is not

01:03:49.000 estranged, the

01:03:50.580 impact on the

01:03:51.940 parents, I just

01:03:53.620 spoke to a

01:03:54.580 woman who is

01:03:57.260 going through

01:03:57.960 this, with

01:03:58.880 their, her

01:04:00.160 daughter is

01:04:00.900 identifying as a

01:04:01.900 boy, this

01:04:04.120 woman, a few

01:04:04.980 decades ago, in

01:04:06.520 her native

01:04:06.980 country, went

01:04:07.780 through a

01:04:08.180 genocide, she

01:04:10.040 lived in a

01:04:10.740 country that a

01:04:11.380 few decades

01:04:11.920 ago, had a

01:04:13.880 genocide, she

01:04:15.440 lost her

01:04:16.840 family, and a

01:04:19.260 limb, one of

01:04:21.540 her limbs, this

01:04:23.760 woman told me

01:04:24.720 that going

01:04:25.980 through what

01:04:26.780 she's going

01:04:27.280 through with

01:04:27.780 her daughter,

01:04:29.000 identifying as

01:04:29.840 a boy, and

01:04:31.040 wanting to go

01:04:31.720 on testosterone,

01:04:32.840 has shattered

01:04:34.420 her life

01:04:35.400 more than the

01:04:39.840 genocide did.

01:04:40.640 so this is

01:04:45.680 affecting, this

01:04:47.480 has a ripple

01:04:48.220 effect, not

01:04:49.140 just parents,

01:04:50.360 siblings,

01:04:51.540 grandparents,

01:04:52.960 cousins, and

01:04:55.160 we didn't even

01:04:55.660 speak about the

01:04:57.080 other students in

01:04:59.760 the classroom,

01:05:00.520 what's the

01:05:00.880 effect on other

01:05:01.680 students in the

01:05:02.460 classroom when

01:05:03.240 suddenly they

01:05:04.460 come back from

01:05:05.200 their summer

01:05:05.680 vacation, and

01:05:07.120 someone that

01:05:09.180 they always saw

01:05:10.560 as a boy, is

01:05:12.080 now they're

01:05:12.680 supposed to, in

01:05:13.440 their minds, think

01:05:14.420 of as a girl, so

01:05:15.800 we don't have

01:05:16.280 time for that, but

01:05:17.580 let me just

01:05:18.160 remind your

01:05:18.880 audience that I

01:05:20.460 am providing, this

01:05:21.320 is the first book

01:05:22.520 in existence

01:05:23.440 written by a

01:05:24.980 medical doctor

01:05:25.760 that is

01:05:27.080 providing parents

01:05:29.480 with the

01:05:30.400 information that

01:05:31.220 they must have

01:05:32.260 to understand

01:05:33.360 this, and

01:05:34.620 to prevent, to

01:05:38.540 do what they

01:05:39.120 can, to give

01:05:39.960 them the tools

01:05:40.880 to prevent

01:05:42.020 this terrible,

01:05:43.760 devastating

01:05:44.300 damage from

01:05:46.160 affecting their

01:05:47.040 families.

01:05:48.800 Miriam, we are

01:05:49.920 going to continue

01:05:50.740 the conversation

01:05:51.540 with questions

01:05:52.340 from our

01:05:52.820 supporters and a

01:05:53.600 few more from

01:05:54.160 us on our

01:05:55.160 locals, but for

01:05:56.960 this section of

01:05:57.700 the interview, we

01:05:58.600 always end with

01:05:59.280 the same question,

01:06:00.120 which is, what's

01:06:01.140 the one thing

01:06:01.700 that you think

01:06:02.260 we're not talking

01:06:03.080 about as a

01:06:03.960 society that we

01:06:05.040 really should be,

01:06:05.620 and it doesn't

01:06:06.000 have to be related

01:06:06.780 to this, although

01:06:07.380 I imagine it

01:06:08.020 might be.

01:06:11.860 We're not

01:06:12.480 talking about how

01:06:13.360 evil really does

01:06:14.300 exist.

01:06:16.400 We have to face

01:06:17.460 it.

01:06:17.960 If we don't face

01:06:19.020 it, you know,

01:06:19.660 we're going to

01:06:20.040 have, we are

01:06:21.140 having this

01:06:23.240 devastation that

01:06:24.280 can happen.

01:06:24.620 We have to

01:06:25.000 acknowledge that

01:06:26.320 there are evil

01:06:26.920 ideas and that

01:06:28.620 there are evil

01:06:29.480 individuals, and

01:06:32.800 if we don't

01:06:35.580 recognize it, how

01:06:36.640 are we going to

01:06:37.040 fight it?

01:06:39.080 Well, thank you

01:06:39.820 for that, and we

01:06:41.020 invite you all to

01:06:41.800 join us over on

01:06:42.500 Locals, where we

01:06:43.120 continue the

01:06:43.640 conversation.

01:06:45.980 Is the

01:06:46.580 psychiatric sanity

01:06:47.880 pendulum swinging

01:06:48.820 back, or will it

01:06:50.600 get worse before it

01:06:52.240 gets better?

TRIGGERnometry - August 23, 2023

PSYCHIATRIST： How the Transgender Movement Happened - Miriam Grossman MD

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