TRIGGERnometry - Responding to Netanyahu Interview Critics

00:00:00.720 They positioned our interview, which they haven't watched.

00:00:04.060 Yeah, because that's the best way to do research, mate, I think.

00:00:07.340 How are you called crystal ball and you have no knowledge or insight?

00:00:10.760 How did that happen?

00:00:12.240 The question no one ever asked is,

00:00:13.980 why is it that so many civilians are being killed in Gaza

00:00:16.540 and not that many civilians are being killed in Ukraine?

00:00:19.440 Why is it?

00:00:20.880 Did you hear what she just...

00:00:22.100 Did you hear what she just said?

00:00:24.420 Yeah, yeah.

00:00:25.560 When you have some sort of peace plan,

00:00:27.660 then you can come together like we did with Germany and Japan.

00:00:35.740 You dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan and you flattened Germany 0.99

00:00:40.180 and now you're presenting that as the way to approach Gaza

00:00:44.620 where you're criticizing Netanyahu for what he's doing.

00:00:47.800 I went in the comments expecting people to obviously go, 1.00

00:00:50.080 this is so stupid. 1.00

00:00:51.100 They'll all agree with her. 1.00

00:00:52.720 Help me.

00:00:54.960 Help me.

00:00:57.660 Relax, relax.

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00:01:58.260 All right, Francis.

00:02:01.620 So, it's been about a week since our interview with Prime Minister Netanyahu.

00:02:06.020 It's fair to say that got a little bit of a response online.

00:02:09.660 Yep, yep.

00:02:10.640 It did.

00:02:11.680 It did.

00:02:12.140 God, it was so funny, the response that it got.

00:02:15.480 To the point where I was like,

00:02:17.140 did you actually watch or listen to the interview? 1.00

00:02:20.920 Well, you know, a lot of online stuff is always morons 0.96

00:02:24.860 who are just responding to the fact that you've interviewed someone without watching it. 0.99

00:02:28.260 Which is fine.

00:02:29.320 What surprised me was there were actually people who like purport to be serious journalists

00:02:34.260 who acted in that same way.

00:02:36.920 We'll talk about breaking points in particular because they did a super,

00:02:40.600 I don't want to use the word,

00:02:42.680 but I can't think of another better word to describe,

00:02:45.260 a super retarded video about that interview, 0.86

00:02:47.980 which we'll talk about in a minute.

00:02:50.000 But actually, you know what?

00:02:51.320 I have to say,

00:02:52.880 I think it's partly because you are still connected with the comedy industry,

00:02:57.000 which I've forgotten all about,

00:02:58.780 that you've had a lot of pushback.

00:03:00.940 Most of the messages I've got have been incredibly supportive and positive.

00:03:04.220 Yeah.

00:03:04.560 I mean, I had one former friend message me and tell me that I'd made a forced pact.

00:03:10.200 A what?

00:03:11.100 A forced pact.

00:03:11.900 I was like, it's a forced impact, you know?

00:03:14.400 But I've had a lot of people who seem to think that because we interviewed Netanyahu,

00:03:20.620 that means we've given a PR opportunity to Benjamin Netanyahu.

00:03:25.360 Whereas if Channel 4 interviewed him, that would be deemed to be acceptable.

00:03:29.940 It's so interesting how people now look at the new media space

00:03:33.540 and think that if you platform someone to quote them,

00:03:37.140 that automatically means that you agree with them.

00:03:39.920 Whereas if old media or legacy media interview someone

00:03:43.660 and notice the difference I'm using in words,

00:03:46.200 interview as opposed to platform, that it seemed to be acceptable.

00:03:49.800 It's so interesting the way that we now look at both old and legacy

00:03:54.520 and new media and seem to hold it to very, very different standards.

00:03:59.720 I will say, though, I have to agree with that perspective quite a bit

00:04:04.300 for reasons that we can get into, which I think is that historically speaking,

00:04:09.900 in recent years at least, legacy media became entirely adversarial.

00:04:16.660 So if they had someone on who was a politician or in charge of a company

00:04:23.080 or Jordan Peterson with Kathy Newman, right,

00:04:26.720 they would do this fake confrontational nonsense

00:04:30.740 where they essentially would only talk as if this person 1.00

00:04:34.980 was some kind of combination of like a hypocrite and a pedophile 0.99

00:04:38.060 and they would treat them like that, right? 0.99

00:04:41.640 And then the response to that in the new media space,

00:04:44.440 I've just written an article about this on my Substack, actually,

00:04:46.820 which we'll put out as a monologue here as well.

00:04:50.080 Then the response from the new media was effectively,

00:04:53.080 if you look at almost every podcast that's out there,

00:04:58.060 you actually very rarely see people disagreeing.

00:05:01.280 It's very, very rare.

00:05:02.840 And so in the new media space, outside of one or two channels,

00:05:06.160 and I would include ours in that as well,

00:05:07.800 because we frequently have people on with whom we disagree

00:05:10.040 and we explore those disagreements in a respectful way.

00:05:13.840 Actually, most of the time, if someone has someone on,

00:05:17.800 it's only because they agree.

00:05:19.980 And I wouldn't just hold a podcaster responsible for that.

00:05:23.140 For example, like Joe Rogan, right?

00:05:25.100 He had Trump and Vance on before the last election,

00:05:27.300 but he did also want to have Kamala on.

00:05:29.740 And it was because she didn't make that happen

00:05:31.880 that it didn't happen.

00:05:33.040 So it's a combination of two things.

00:05:35.020 You and I discussed in the last conversation we had about this,

00:05:38.680 that we try very hard to get people

00:05:40.720 from a different perspective to ours on the show,

00:05:42.640 but very often they don't want to come on.

00:05:44.660 A, because they don't want to be seen

00:05:46.520 to align themselves with us,

00:05:48.400 but B, also because they're afraid of the disagreement

00:05:50.980 and the challenge, right?

00:05:52.660 So I do understand why instinctively people take that perspective,

00:05:56.480 because in the new media,

00:05:58.160 it generally is the case that if you have someone on your show,

00:06:01.220 it is because you agree with them.

00:06:03.020 Absolutely.

00:06:03.840 So again, that's fair.

00:06:05.660 But when people were criticizing us about the BB interview,

00:06:09.940 and the thing that I didn't understand is,

00:06:12.200 they would say,

00:06:13.240 oh, you know, you've had Tommy Robinson on,

00:06:15.200 you've had Nigel Farage on,

00:06:16.360 you go, yeah, but we've had Stephen Fry,

00:06:19.580 we had Deborah Francis White from the Guilty Feminist podcast.

00:06:22.900 Mark Steele.

00:06:23.580 Mark Steele.

00:06:24.380 We, and not only that,

00:06:26.800 we go out of our way,

00:06:28.620 75%, and I mentioned it before,

00:06:31.180 of our bookers' energy

00:06:32.340 goes into getting left-wing guests.

00:06:34.700 We've had Breonna Wu,

00:06:35.880 a trans woman who works for the Democrat Party in America.

00:06:39.760 So you go, look,

00:06:42.180 this is quite clearly not what we do.

00:06:44.920 The modus operandi of the show

00:06:46.440 has never been to get people on

00:06:49.060 that we agree with

00:06:49.940 so that we can nod our heads.

00:06:51.700 Number one,

00:06:52.220 because it's not who we are as people.

00:06:53.860 But number two,

00:06:54.980 it's on a purely practical level,

00:06:57.140 I don't think that business model

00:06:58.700 is going to be working in the long term.

00:07:01.160 It works for some people,

00:07:02.040 but I don't think it's about the business model.

00:07:03.880 I just don't think we find that very interesting.

00:07:05.840 Yeah.

00:07:05.960 And that's always been the approach.

00:07:07.820 You know what I think sums the distinction best for me?

00:07:12.440 We get, obviously, lots of pushback

00:07:14.680 about having people like Tommy Robinson on

00:07:17.040 or others or whatever.

00:07:19.340 We had a man called Roger Hallam on our show,

00:07:22.420 who is the co-founder of Extinction Rebellion,

00:07:25.100 who is currently in prison,

00:07:27.280 not just for committing crimes,

00:07:28.720 but I think he's in prison

00:07:30.000 for orchestrating the commission of crimes by other people.

00:07:33.740 Terrorism, I think it is.

00:07:34.820 I don't think it's terrorism.

00:07:36.100 It might be.

00:07:36.720 Well, we should probably look it up.

00:07:38.060 Yeah.

00:07:38.260 We should probably look it up.

00:07:40.340 Let's just take that back and say,

00:07:41.820 we don't know exactly,

00:07:42.940 but the point is,

00:07:43.760 he is in prison

00:07:44.580 for what he would call climate activism

00:07:48.560 that was so destructive,

00:07:50.500 he was sent to prison for many years,

00:07:52.240 along with several other people.

00:07:53.600 Yeah.

00:07:53.760 Right?

00:07:54.360 Have you ever had anyone come up to you

00:07:55.920 and go,

00:07:56.280 you platform extremists,

00:07:57.980 and you go,

00:07:58.440 which ones?

00:07:58.920 And they go,

00:07:59.320 Roger Hallam.

00:08:00.520 No.

00:08:00.860 No.

00:08:01.080 So why is it

00:08:02.900 that if you get someone on

00:08:04.320 who has the wrong opinion,

00:08:06.360 that's platforming extremism.

00:08:10.760 But if you get someone

00:08:11.660 who is literally in jail right now,

00:08:13.860 no one cares.

00:08:15.960 No.

00:08:17.040 And you go,

00:08:17.820 that's interesting.

00:08:19.240 There is something going on there.

00:08:21.640 Of course.

00:08:22.300 Because take this,

00:08:23.360 let's say,

00:08:24.200 and this is a dream guest for us,

00:08:25.760 Tony Blair agrees to come on the show.

00:08:27.780 And I would love Tony to come on.

00:08:29.660 And Tony,

00:08:30.400 I know you're a massive fan of Trigg, mate.

00:08:32.000 You're always welcome.

00:08:33.240 But let's say we get Tony Blair on.

00:08:35.200 We book him in.

00:08:36.780 I bet he wouldn't even get

00:08:38.980 one quarter,

00:08:40.140 one quarter of the pushback

00:08:42.260 or the condemnation

00:08:44.180 that Tommy Robinson would get,

00:08:46.760 even though Blair

00:08:48.340 was one of the architects

00:08:49.520 of the Iraq war,

00:08:50.680 which resulted in the deaths

00:08:52.320 of a million people.

00:08:54.340 I bet we wouldn't.

00:08:55.600 I would actually find it

00:08:56.820 highly interesting.

00:08:58.460 We would get some pushback.

00:08:59.860 I'm sure of that.

00:09:01.140 But I bet we wouldn't get

00:09:02.800 even a quarter of the pushback

00:09:04.200 that we had for Tommy.

00:09:05.720 It's so interesting to me.

00:09:07.540 And it just shows you

00:09:08.460 how much of this is just,

00:09:10.020 I don't like this person.

00:09:11.580 I like this person.

00:09:12.600 And that's what it's about.

00:09:13.720 And also there's a status thing as well.

00:09:15.500 High status, low status.

00:09:16.680 Tommy Robinson is considered low status.

00:09:18.500 And Tony Blair is considered high status.

00:09:20.600 It's not about the death count.

00:09:22.380 As far as I know,

00:09:22.940 Tony Robinson has never killed anyone, right?

00:09:25.000 Tony Blair, with his decisions,

00:09:26.440 did kill lots of people.

00:09:27.880 But that's fine.

00:09:29.600 Absolutely.

00:09:30.320 And it's not even,

00:09:31.420 it's what it's,

00:09:33.040 going through the trigonometry journey

00:09:35.140 has actually exposed me

00:09:36.460 one key thing.

00:09:37.800 Is that the majority of people,

00:09:39.580 and I include myself in this,

00:09:40.760 by the way,

00:09:41.300 I was guilty of this.

00:09:43.400 Most people think emotion.

00:09:44.900 Most people don't think logically

00:09:46.620 or rationally.

00:09:47.300 Most people don't actually investigate

00:09:49.520 what it is that they think

00:09:50.980 and why that they think it.

00:09:52.540 And actually,

00:09:53.120 do they have any basis

00:09:54.380 for their thoughts

00:09:55.480 and their arguments?

00:09:56.520 Are they actually based

00:09:57.620 on some kind of objective truth?

00:09:59.700 Do they follow a logical pattern?

00:10:01.560 Or are they just simply

00:10:02.840 emotional vomiting?

00:10:04.920 And what these interviews expose

00:10:07.640 with Tommy

00:10:08.260 and then with Benjamin Netanyahu

00:10:10.120 is most people don't.

00:10:12.460 Like, they'll go to us

00:10:13.460 when we talk about

00:10:14.580 Benjamin Netanyahu.

00:10:15.520 Oh, you didn't talk

00:10:16.720 about genocide.

00:10:17.960 You got his response

00:10:19.740 on genocide

00:10:20.440 in that interview

00:10:21.800 where he said,

00:10:22.540 if we wanted to commit genocide,

00:10:24.000 we would do it

00:10:24.800 in an afternoon.

00:10:26.280 What more

00:10:27.140 do you want us to say?

00:10:28.960 Well, they don't want us

00:10:29.880 to say anything.

00:10:30.620 What they want us

00:10:31.520 is to project

00:10:32.700 their worldview

00:10:33.480 onto him

00:10:34.420 and do

00:10:36.300 a Kathy Newman

00:10:37.560 style interview

00:10:39.260 in this one instance.

00:10:40.420 Normally,

00:10:40.700 they don't like Kathy Newman.

00:10:41.760 But in this one instance,

00:10:42.780 they would like us

00:10:43.640 to do that

00:10:44.080 because they really

00:10:44.980 don't like him

00:10:45.880 and they hold him

00:10:46.700 responsible for what's

00:10:47.680 happening in Gaza

00:10:48.400 and whatever.

00:10:49.100 By the way,

00:10:49.700 we should just say,

00:10:50.500 and I think this is

00:10:51.140 an objective statement

00:10:52.100 as far as I'm aware,

00:10:53.860 we did the most challenging

00:10:55.860 interview with Benjamin Netanyahu

00:10:57.460 since the war started

00:10:59.500 of anyone.

00:11:01.360 Show me an interview

00:11:02.300 where he's actually challenged

00:11:03.860 and asked probing questions

00:11:05.180 prior to ours

00:11:06.380 that's been done.

00:11:07.480 I haven't seen one.

00:11:08.540 Have you?

00:11:08.980 No.

00:11:09.180 So this is one

00:11:11.440 of the funniest things

00:11:12.280 that I found,

00:11:12.840 including, by the way,

00:11:13.760 from the kind of

00:11:14.740 online far right

00:11:15.740 as well,

00:11:17.060 which is basically like,

00:11:19.040 oh, you've got this guy

00:11:20.100 on his...

00:11:20.680 Okay,

00:11:22.000 these are the same people

00:11:23.460 that were gargling 0.99

00:11:25.440 Tucker Carlson's balls 1.00

00:11:26.580 when he interviewed 0.99

00:11:27.320 Vladimir Putin

00:11:28.140 while gargling 0.99

00:11:29.560 Vladimir Putin's balls. 1.00

00:11:31.420 See, 0.99

00:11:31.940 you remember

00:11:32.360 we had a conversation

00:11:33.420 on our show

00:11:34.420 about Tucker Carlson

00:11:36.000 interviewing Vladimir Putin

00:11:37.220 in which neither of us

00:11:40.120 said he should not

00:11:41.080 speak to Vladimir Putin.

00:11:42.380 No.

00:11:42.700 What we said is

00:11:43.540 if you're going to

00:11:44.640 interview a world leader

00:11:45.620 who's currently in charge

00:11:46.740 of a war,

00:11:48.000 you might want to ask him

00:11:49.080 some probing questions,

00:11:50.420 which Tucker did not

00:11:51.420 do remotely,

00:11:52.500 right?

00:11:53.640 The same with when he

00:11:54.540 interviewed...

00:11:55.320 All these other people,

00:11:56.480 world leaders that he's

00:11:57.220 interviewed,

00:11:57.900 there's never any

00:11:58.560 pushback at all,

00:11:59.560 right?

00:12:00.000 And that is

00:12:00.740 illegitimate criticism.

00:12:02.480 What we did is...

00:12:03.980 There used to be a word

00:12:04.920 for this

00:12:05.360 that's now

00:12:06.300 somewhat debased

00:12:07.280 by the actions

00:12:07.860 of the people

00:12:08.380 who apply that word

00:12:09.580 to themselves.

00:12:10.020 It's called journalism.

00:12:11.240 That's what we did.

00:12:13.160 Of course.

00:12:14.060 Of course,

00:12:14.500 that's what we did.

00:12:15.140 And going through it,

00:12:16.800 it was just...

00:12:17.800 And the other thing

00:12:18.440 that people don't seem

00:12:19.500 to realize is

00:12:20.500 we had half an hour.

00:12:22.640 You are not going

00:12:23.540 to cover

00:12:24.040 every single subject

00:12:25.980 in the depth

00:12:27.500 that you would like

00:12:28.700 because

00:12:29.620 you only have

00:12:30.980 half an hour.

00:12:32.260 And to the people going,

00:12:33.220 oh, well,

00:12:33.480 why didn't you do

00:12:34.020 a Rogan-style interview?

00:12:35.440 We would have loved

00:12:36.000 to have done

00:12:36.380 a Rogan-style interview,

00:12:37.620 but you get the time

00:12:38.940 that you're allotted.

00:12:39.880 Kind of a busy guy.

00:12:40.800 He's a busy guy.

00:12:41.940 So you get the time

00:12:42.880 that you're allotted

00:12:43.640 and then

00:12:44.640 as journalists

00:12:46.360 or podcasters

00:12:47.440 or whatever you want

00:12:48.040 to call us,

00:12:49.020 it is our job

00:12:50.740 to then go,

00:12:51.480 how can we maximize

00:12:52.520 the time?

00:12:53.380 What can we talk

00:12:54.440 about in that time

00:12:55.600 to expose

00:12:56.920 not only

00:12:58.160 who the man is,

00:12:59.320 but what he thinks

00:13:00.580 and how he thinks.

00:13:01.800 And that is

00:13:02.880 what I'm really proud

00:13:04.060 of about that interview

00:13:05.000 because you come away

00:13:06.240 from that interview

00:13:07.020 knowing a lot more

00:13:08.860 about Benjamin Netanyahu

00:13:10.220 than you did

00:13:11.040 before you listened.

00:13:12.720 And I think

00:13:13.340 that is the job

00:13:14.220 to expose,

00:13:15.140 not to expose

00:13:16.060 in the Kathy Newman sense

00:13:17.280 that someone's a fascist

00:13:18.380 or, you know, 0.63

00:13:19.360 a hateful person

00:13:20.640 or bigoted person.

00:13:21.980 No.

00:13:22.960 You expose

00:13:24.180 who that person

00:13:25.260 is in front of you.

00:13:26.400 That is your job

00:13:27.400 as an interviewer

00:13:28.140 and then it is

00:13:28.900 the audience's job

00:13:30.060 to make their own mind up.

00:13:32.120 And it is really

00:13:33.000 quite that simple.

00:13:34.340 And anything else,

00:13:35.760 if you want us

00:13:36.600 to sit there

00:13:37.180 and go,

00:13:37.540 well, you know,

00:13:38.440 harangue someone consistently.

00:13:40.120 And by the way,

00:13:40.600 we did push back

00:13:41.400 and we pushed back

00:13:42.340 more than I've ever seen

00:13:44.300 on anybody else.

00:13:45.280 But if you think

00:13:46.720 that that is journalism

00:13:47.880 to harangue someone,

00:13:49.060 then I'm very sorry,

00:13:50.000 that is not journalism.

00:13:51.240 That is virtue signaling

00:13:52.540 to the crowd.

00:13:53.200 But like you said,

00:13:54.880 most people

00:13:55.720 don't want journalism.

00:13:57.840 They want their worldview

00:13:59.160 to be pushed

00:14:00.960 by all means necessary.

00:14:03.320 And you talked about

00:14:04.920 people having

00:14:05.560 an emotional reaction

00:14:06.540 to things

00:14:07.020 instead of thinking logically.

00:14:08.960 I just think

00:14:09.500 I have not seen,

00:14:12.040 I was going to say,

00:14:13.880 I'm just going to

00:14:15.340 check in my mind

00:14:16.280 before I say this out loud.

00:14:18.140 I think Israel 0.98

00:14:19.060 in recent years

00:14:20.080 is the issue

00:14:22.380 on which that's true

00:14:23.960 to the greatest extent.

00:14:25.660 I have not seen people

00:14:27.040 be otherwise sensible people

00:14:28.940 be so deranged

00:14:29.760 about any other issue.

00:14:31.920 I was thinking

00:14:32.800 maybe BLM,

00:14:33.680 but no,

00:14:34.020 Israel more than BLM. 0.77

00:14:35.000 Israel more than BLM. 0.77

00:14:36.160 Yeah.

00:14:36.460 Because the sorts of things

00:14:37.820 that otherwise

00:14:38.620 very sensible people

00:14:39.960 say,

00:14:41.880 like,

00:14:42.380 in the time

00:14:43.700 since our interview

00:14:44.840 with Netanyahu

00:14:45.340 has come out,

00:14:46.260 the IDF

00:14:47.240 accidentally

00:14:48.800 struck a hospital.

00:14:50.700 Twice, yeah.

00:14:51.380 Twice.

00:14:51.680 It sounds funny,

00:14:54.560 accidentally struck

00:14:55.340 a hospital twice,

00:14:56.100 but we don't know

00:14:57.120 exactly what's happened.

00:14:58.000 There might be

00:14:58.400 a targeting issue.

00:14:59.720 And I see people online,

00:15:01.200 I mean,

00:15:01.380 Pierce is a good example,

00:15:02.480 like quote tweeting

00:15:03.340 Benjamin Netanyahu

00:15:04.300 saying this was a terrible

00:15:05.420 mishap or something like that,

00:15:07.180 going,

00:15:07.900 no,

00:15:08.120 this was deliberate.

00:15:09.520 What?

00:15:10.600 How do you know? 1.00

00:15:12.320 How the fuck do you know? 0.99

00:15:14.800 I mean, 0.99

00:15:15.240 I remember growing up

00:15:16.800 watching Americans

00:15:18.620 hitting a hospital.

00:15:20.040 I remember when there was

00:15:21.300 a war in Yugoslavia,

00:15:23.240 Serbia,

00:15:23.580 wherever it was,

00:15:24.340 right?

00:15:24.520 They hit a hospital then.

00:15:26.040 It was during the war

00:15:27.140 in Iraq and Afghanistan,

00:15:28.520 the American armed forces

00:15:29.760 were hitting hospitals

00:15:30.760 left,

00:15:31.100 right and center.

00:15:32.060 I mean,

00:15:32.400 to the point where,

00:15:33.360 you know,

00:15:33.880 every hack comedian

00:15:35.360 had a joke about,

00:15:36.900 you know,

00:15:37.340 a wedding in Pakistan.

00:15:38.540 Do you remember?

00:15:38.960 Yes.

00:15:39.260 Drone strike,

00:15:39.860 wedding pact.

00:15:40.300 It was like a thing

00:15:41.240 that you'd hear

00:15:41.700 every gig for a period of time.

00:15:44.320 And because in war,

00:15:45.900 these things do tend to happen

00:15:47.340 and it's tragic that they do

00:15:48.840 and sometimes mistakes happen

00:15:50.120 or sometimes we don't know.

00:15:51.840 I mean,

00:15:52.040 I have heard reports

00:15:52.880 that at this hospital

00:15:53.700 there were militants

00:15:54.560 who were hiding

00:15:55.120 and using it as a staging base,

00:15:56.700 which is why,

00:15:57.380 anyway,

00:15:57.840 we don't know what happened.

00:15:59.420 But it's like the people

00:16:01.260 who are pro-Israel

00:16:02.520 immediately go,

00:16:03.140 no,

00:16:03.340 this is what happened.

00:16:04.100 And the people who are anti-Israel

00:16:05.080 go,

00:16:05.300 no,

00:16:05.480 this is what happened.

00:16:06.400 And we don't know.

00:16:07.980 We don't know.

00:16:09.780 And because everyone

00:16:11.120 is in a rush

00:16:11.900 to give their take on it,

00:16:14.220 logic and factual information

00:16:16.180 just goes completely

00:16:17.000 out of the window.

00:16:17.560 Of course,

00:16:18.560 because what we want

00:16:19.700 in life

00:16:20.280 and what we push back on

00:16:22.240 so much in the show,

00:16:23.860 and I think it's one of the

00:16:24.760 central themes of the show,

00:16:26.000 is black and white thinking.

00:16:27.480 When the reality is,

00:16:29.280 unfortunately,

00:16:30.080 We don't like autistic people. 1.00

00:16:32.620 Unfortunately,

00:16:33.420 that's about 80%

00:16:34.200 of our fan base

00:16:34.880 down the drain, mate.

00:16:35.760 No,

00:16:35.980 but unfortunately in life,

00:16:38.100 it's not black and white.

00:16:40.220 It's nuanced.

00:16:41.280 It's nuanced.

00:16:42.020 And things happen

00:16:43.360 and mistakes are made

00:16:44.600 and tragic events occur.

00:16:48.320 It's complicated.

00:16:49.800 And people don't want that.

00:16:51.380 They don't want to accept that

00:16:52.800 because what that means,

00:16:54.020 if life is nuanced,

00:16:55.400 it means that you have to think

00:16:56.640 deeply about the issues.

00:16:57.860 It means that you actually

00:16:59.080 have to investigate them

00:17:00.240 for yourselves,

00:17:01.420 weigh up one argument,

00:17:03.140 another argument,

00:17:04.220 investigate the merits

00:17:05.500 of argument A,

00:17:06.540 investigate the merits

00:17:07.340 of argument B,

00:17:08.120 see where they have strengths,

00:17:11.300 see what their weaknesses are,

00:17:12.900 and then come to your own

00:17:14.540 opinion and conclusion.

00:17:16.140 And the danger with that is,

00:17:17.540 is number one,

00:17:18.700 you have to think for yourself,

00:17:19.900 which is always dangerous.

00:17:21.140 If you look at history,

00:17:22.540 people who think they're

00:17:23.220 for themselves

00:17:24.180 never tends to end well.

00:17:26.280 And number two,

00:17:27.360 what it also does

00:17:28.520 is it alienates you

00:17:30.240 from people in argument A

00:17:31.840 and people in argument B.

00:17:33.160 And a large part of the reason

00:17:35.900 that people go into

00:17:37.000 these two camps

00:17:37.840 is we are fundamentally

00:17:39.140 tribal by nature.

00:17:40.720 And the moment you start

00:17:42.380 to think to yourself,

00:17:43.600 the reason that it's dangerous

00:17:44.900 is because you're going,

00:17:46.100 I reject the tribes, 1.00

00:17:47.420 I'm going to be an individual.

00:17:48.960 And from an evolutionary

00:17:49.880 biological point of view,

00:17:51.440 that is a very dangerous

00:17:52.660 place to put yourself.

00:17:53.620 Well, it's death.

00:17:54.640 Yeah.

00:17:54.780 If you are ostracized

00:17:55.940 from your village,

00:17:56.760 that's death.

00:17:58.080 And it's not just death,

00:17:59.540 you know,

00:17:59.740 dying fighting for your tribe

00:18:01.560 in a war

00:18:02.080 is a lot more satisfying

00:18:03.520 than being cast out

00:18:04.460 into the desert

00:18:05.100 and starving to death.

00:18:06.500 Yeah.

00:18:06.800 Right.

00:18:07.020 So that ostracism

00:18:09.040 that people fear

00:18:09.960 evolutionarily

00:18:11.960 is terrifying to people.

00:18:14.060 It's,

00:18:15.020 I've often thought that,

00:18:16.660 you know,

00:18:17.200 the overwhelming majority

00:18:18.520 of people have some sort

00:18:19.820 of fear of public speaking.

00:18:21.360 I actually had a fear

00:18:22.280 of public speaking

00:18:22.920 at one point.

00:18:23.560 I think it's very,

00:18:24.600 I think we are hardwired

00:18:25.840 to be fearful

00:18:27.140 of that situation

00:18:28.320 because if you think

00:18:29.620 about it,

00:18:30.360 in the ancestral environment,

00:18:32.680 you're living in your village,

00:18:33.720 150 people or so,

00:18:35.760 if you find yourself

00:18:36.720 in a position

00:18:37.420 where you are

00:18:38.680 in front of people

00:18:39.700 and they're staring

00:18:41.140 at you silently,

00:18:43.360 that would not have been

00:18:44.260 a good circumstance

00:18:45.100 as 99% of the time.

00:18:47.140 So,

00:18:48.060 that is a barrier

00:18:49.440 that many,

00:18:50.020 many people have

00:18:50.620 to overcome.

00:18:51.500 And people think,

00:18:52.160 oh,

00:18:52.260 it's because you got sent

00:18:53.180 up to the blackboard

00:18:53.980 at school.

00:18:54.340 No,

00:18:54.980 no,

00:18:55.280 no.

00:18:55.440 It's hardwired into you.

00:18:56.760 So,

00:18:56.860 that fear of ostracism

00:18:57.860 is part of it.

00:18:58.900 But I think

00:18:59.500 with the war in Gaza,

00:19:00.620 we're also facing

00:19:01.620 something else entirely,

00:19:03.160 which is the visual medium,

00:19:05.860 the visual channel

00:19:06.740 in human brains

00:19:07.880 is so powerful.

00:19:10.160 It's so much more powerful

00:19:11.740 than anything else.

00:19:13.040 It is overwhelmingly powerful.

00:19:15.100 And when you see images

00:19:16.300 of true horror,

00:19:17.480 which you will see

00:19:18.340 in every conflict zone,

00:19:20.760 it completely overwhelms

00:19:22.360 your logical reasoning

00:19:23.620 and faculties

00:19:24.420 by necessity.

00:19:26.700 It's just how it is.

00:19:28.120 And I think

00:19:28.500 with one of the reasons

00:19:29.360 that you see this

00:19:30.240 with Gaza

00:19:30.700 is people are just 1.00

00:19:31.940 seeing horrific shit 0.99

00:19:32.920 day in, 1.00

00:19:33.400 day out.

00:19:33.800 And it shuts down

00:19:35.020 their ability

00:19:35.480 to think critically.

00:19:36.280 I'll give you one example,

00:19:37.560 which I just think

00:19:38.320 sums it up.

00:19:39.300 There's a meme

00:19:39.840 that I keep seeing

00:19:40.980 popping up.

00:19:41.620 And this is in my feed,

00:19:42.840 so you know

00:19:43.320 it's doing well elsewhere,

00:19:45.300 right?

00:19:45.920 Which is,

00:19:46.980 X number of children

00:19:48.560 have been killed

00:19:49.220 in Ukraine

00:19:49.780 and, you know,

00:19:51.580 a hundred times more,

00:19:52.680 however many more

00:19:53.380 children killed in Gaza.

00:19:55.360 That's the difference

00:19:56.880 between war and genocide.

00:19:58.840 Right?

00:19:59.300 Okay.

00:20:00.700 Now,

00:20:01.320 if you know anything

00:20:02.040 about these two conflicts,

00:20:03.840 you go, 1.00

00:20:04.480 that is the most stupid thing 1.00

00:20:06.040 that anyone's ever said. 1.00

00:20:07.220 Because what they're trying

00:20:08.280 to say is,

00:20:09.480 look,

00:20:09.700 Israel is committing genocide, 0.99

00:20:11.500 Russia, 0.91

00:20:12.040 even though it's bad

00:20:12.800 and wrong to invade,

00:20:13.700 is not,

00:20:14.080 right?

00:20:15.160 Why is it?

00:20:16.460 But the question

00:20:17.040 no one ever asked is,

00:20:18.200 why is it

00:20:18.920 that so many civilians

00:20:19.900 are being killed in Gaza

00:20:20.900 and not that many civilians

00:20:22.480 are being killed in Ukraine?

00:20:23.780 Why is it?

00:20:24.740 Well,

00:20:24.980 I know because I have family

00:20:26.220 in Ukraine.

00:20:27.260 And you know what they do

00:20:28.300 when the air raid sirens

00:20:30.860 go off?

00:20:32.720 They go down

00:20:33.800 into the tube

00:20:34.720 in Kiev.

00:20:35.860 They go down

00:20:36.780 into the tunnels,

00:20:37.800 which the government

00:20:38.680 has made available

00:20:39.580 for them

00:20:40.020 and encouraged them

00:20:40.880 to use.

00:20:42.120 In other words,

00:20:43.940 Ukraine

00:20:44.460 has done everything

00:20:45.460 possible

00:20:46.020 to make use

00:20:47.560 of all the facilities

00:20:48.780 it has

00:20:49.380 to allow the civilians

00:20:51.000 to be safe

00:20:51.880 from Russian attacks.

00:20:54.020 But in Gaza,

00:20:55.300 they have a tunnel network

00:20:56.740 that is bigger

00:20:57.540 than the London tube

00:20:58.720 and not one civilian

00:21:00.420 has been allowed in.

00:21:02.000 The point being,

00:21:03.160 the reason that civilians

00:21:04.400 are dying in Gaza

00:21:05.560 is that their government,

00:21:07.260 Hamas, 1.00

00:21:07.800 wants them to be killed 1.00

00:21:09.200 and is doing 1.00

00:21:10.540 everything possible

00:21:11.540 to prevent them

00:21:12.820 from surviving.

00:21:13.920 It's not using

00:21:15.200 the facilities it has

00:21:16.580 to save them.

00:21:17.800 it's deliberately

00:21:20.200 putting them

00:21:20.980 in harm's way.

00:21:21.980 That's why it's happening.

00:21:23.560 But if all you see

00:21:24.720 are these horrific images

00:21:25.820 of war

00:21:26.320 and you don't think

00:21:27.360 beyond that,

00:21:28.140 a meme that is 1.00

00:21:29.120 as stupid as that 1.00

00:21:31.060 sounds convincing. 1.00

00:21:32.400 The world is changing fast

00:21:34.160 and it's not enough

00:21:35.100 to just know

00:21:35.900 what the news is.

00:21:36.940 You have to know

00:21:37.660 how it's being reported

00:21:39.040 because the truth

00:21:40.000 often depends

00:21:40.780 on where you're standing.

00:21:42.020 That's why

00:21:42.560 I use Ground News.

00:21:44.120 It's the only website

00:21:45.480 and app

00:21:45.900 that gathers

00:21:46.520 and compares news

00:21:47.480 from over 50,000 sources

00:21:49.160 around the world.

00:21:50.140 It doesn't just show you

00:21:51.040 the headlines,

00:21:51.740 it also breaks down

00:21:52.820 the political bias

00:21:53.840 and who owns

00:21:54.960 the media outlet

00:21:55.820 you're reading or watching.

00:21:57.020 When you know

00:21:57.460 where the money is coming from,

00:21:58.940 you start to understand

00:22:00.080 how power and influence

00:22:01.360 shape the stories we see.

00:22:02.860 Their blind spot feed

00:22:03.840 is my favorite feature.

00:22:05.040 It shows you

00:22:05.640 which stories

00:22:06.220 are being ignored

00:22:06.940 by either the left

00:22:07.960 or the right

00:22:08.620 so you can actually

00:22:09.860 spot media bias

00:22:10.980 as it's happening

00:22:11.700 and stay ahead

00:22:12.820 of the narrative.

00:22:13.400 They surface

00:22:14.060 around 20 of these

00:22:15.220 a day

00:22:15.600 and some of them

00:22:16.420 are pretty eye-opening.

00:22:17.860 This story

00:22:18.320 on the UK

00:22:18.940 developing a predictive

00:22:20.120 tool to determine

00:22:21.120 if someone will

00:22:21.760 become a killer

00:22:22.420 barely showed up

00:22:23.660 in left-leaning outlets.

00:22:24.960 It's a major story

00:22:25.800 when you think about

00:22:26.520 how far governments

00:22:27.420 might go with AI

00:22:28.260 and surveillance.

00:22:29.240 And on the other side,

00:22:30.400 this story

00:22:31.120 about how more than

00:22:32.140 60% of CEOs

00:22:33.900 expect a recession

00:22:35.000 in the next six months

00:22:35.940 currently has no coverage

00:22:37.460 in right-leaning media

00:22:38.560 at all.

00:22:39.280 That's a pretty big

00:22:40.020 blind spot

00:22:40.520 when you're trying

00:22:41.080 to understand

00:22:41.700 where the economy

00:22:42.400 might be headed.

00:22:43.180 If you're someone

00:22:43.680 who values nuance

00:22:44.700 over noise,

00:22:45.500 Ground News is essential.

00:22:46.940 It's no wonder

00:22:47.600 they have over

00:22:48.180 10,000 five-star reviews.

00:22:50.180 Right now,

00:22:50.780 Trigonometry viewers

00:22:51.620 can subscribe

00:22:52.380 and get 40%

00:22:53.620 off their vantage plan.

00:22:55.040 That's the same one I use.

00:22:56.300 Click the link

00:22:56.880 in the description

00:22:57.600 and visit

00:22:58.240 ground.news

00:22:59.380 slash trigonometry.

00:23:00.740 Start thinking for yourself

00:23:01.960 and subscribe

00:23:02.620 at ground.news

00:23:03.940 slash trigonometry.

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00:23:35.180 Terms apply.

00:23:36.540 Look,

00:23:36.960 I completely agree.

00:23:37.620 and I also think

00:23:38.460 as well,

00:23:39.540 in a world

00:23:40.260 which is as sanitized

00:23:41.680 as ours,

00:23:42.280 which is as safe

00:23:43.540 as ours,

00:23:44.120 where we talk

00:23:45.360 about things

00:23:45.960 like safe spaces,

00:23:47.000 microaggressions,

00:23:48.080 ad nauseum,

00:23:48.640 I think people

00:23:51.000 are desperate

00:23:51.500 to feel something

00:23:52.420 and one of the

00:23:53.780 easiest ways

00:23:54.680 to feel something

00:23:55.480 is to go online

00:23:56.380 and to see something

00:23:57.380 horrific

00:23:57.760 and there's a part

00:24:00.220 of,

00:24:00.460 just as you can

00:24:01.360 get addicted

00:24:02.080 to things

00:24:03.600 like hardcore

00:24:04.240 pornography

00:24:04.740 or any other

00:24:06.020 type of images,

00:24:07.740 so you can get

00:24:08.760 addicted to a

00:24:09.800 kind of outrage

00:24:10.680 loop where you

00:24:11.580 see a horrendous

00:24:13.460 image or video

00:24:14.480 from war,

00:24:15.100 which are not

00:24:15.660 difficult to find

00:24:16.760 and so you get

00:24:18.080 that mainlined

00:24:18.940 into your brain

00:24:19.840 and then you

00:24:20.920 feel outrage.

00:24:21.900 Of course you feel

00:24:22.600 outrage.

00:24:23.140 It's natural.

00:24:24.260 If you see

00:24:25.000 the corpse

00:24:26.260 of a child

00:24:27.060 being uncovered

00:24:28.220 from rubble,

00:24:29.340 what human being

00:24:30.220 wouldn't be

00:24:30.800 outraged about that?

00:24:32.020 What human being

00:24:32.720 wouldn't feel angry?

00:24:34.400 What human being

00:24:35.300 wouldn't feel despair?

00:24:37.400 But you're not

00:24:38.180 really going to

00:24:38.860 get those emotions,

00:24:40.220 those visceral

00:24:41.060 feelings from

00:24:42.260 your everyday life.

00:24:44.440 So I think

00:24:45.260 people as well,

00:24:46.220 they get hooked

00:24:47.000 on that and then

00:24:48.240 they feel that

00:24:49.160 they are on this

00:24:49.940 part of this

00:24:50.440 moral crusade

00:24:51.520 so then they can

00:24:52.760 talk about what's

00:24:53.960 happening and then

00:24:55.100 they can vent

00:24:55.860 and then they can

00:24:56.460 get angry.

00:24:57.820 And it gives,

00:24:58.720 I suppose it gives

00:24:59.740 them a sense of

00:25:00.340 meaning and purpose.

00:25:01.140 You know,

00:25:01.280 if you just go to

00:25:01.920 your nine-to-five

00:25:02.760 and life is kind

00:25:03.520 of boring and

00:25:04.260 blah, blah, blah,

00:25:04.920 you don't feel

00:25:06.140 alive.

00:25:07.240 Yeah.

00:25:07.800 What if you're

00:25:08.620 on a mission

00:25:11.560 together with

00:25:12.440 other people

00:25:13.040 on some kind

00:25:13.560 of moral crusade?

00:25:15.100 And, you know,

00:25:15.860 one of the things

00:25:16.520 that, you know,

00:25:17.080 it's interesting,

00:25:17.880 after our interview

00:25:19.100 came out,

00:25:19.540 we actually went

00:25:19.980 away for a few

00:25:20.520 days for holiday

00:25:21.300 and we had a chance

00:25:22.660 to meet a few

00:25:23.180 people there.

00:25:23.720 one of them

00:25:24.640 is a former

00:25:26.240 lecturer at one

00:25:28.480 of America's

00:25:29.040 most prestigious

00:25:29.620 universities.

00:25:30.400 And one of the

00:25:30.740 things he said

00:25:31.260 that shocked me

00:25:32.460 but also didn't

00:25:33.140 shock me is he

00:25:33.740 talked about the

00:25:34.340 fact that in his

00:25:36.640 department,

00:25:37.260 which was in the

00:25:38.240 humanities,

00:25:39.560 and this was a

00:25:40.760 relevant test for

00:25:41.500 them to give their

00:25:42.060 students,

00:25:42.880 when they got a new

00:25:43.840 intake of students,

00:25:44.820 they would give

00:25:45.240 them a test,

00:25:46.220 just an induction

00:25:47.080 test, just to find

00:25:47.920 out where they were

00:25:48.440 at, and what

00:25:49.200 they would do

00:25:49.700 is they would

00:25:50.140 ask them to

00:25:51.660 place countries

00:25:52.900 in Europe on

00:25:54.720 a map.

00:25:55.220 They would give

00:25:55.580 them labels,

00:25:56.260 they would give

00:25:56.600 them a blank

00:25:57.000 map and labels

00:25:58.280 to put on.

00:25:58.920 And he said

00:25:59.300 that a third

00:25:59.760 of students,

00:26:01.100 people are going

00:26:01.740 to think a third

00:26:02.180 of students

00:26:02.540 couldn't put the

00:26:03.080 right countries,

00:26:03.640 didn't know where

00:26:04.100 Belgium was.

00:26:04.980 No, a third

00:26:05.860 of students put

00:26:06.960 the labels on

00:26:07.860 the Mediterranean

00:26:08.440 Sea.

00:26:09.140 They could not

00:26:09.840 tell the difference

00:26:10.600 between the sea

00:26:12.040 and the land,

00:26:14.160 right?

00:26:14.640 That's a third

00:26:15.200 of students at

00:26:15.880 one of America's

00:26:16.560 most prestigious

00:26:17.160 universities.

00:26:17.860 The world's

00:26:18.620 one and the

00:26:18.980 world's most

00:26:19.460 prestigious.

00:26:20.620 Yes.

00:26:22.540 And the other

00:26:23.520 thing he said

00:26:24.080 is they don't

00:26:24.860 have the concept

00:26:25.720 of when things

00:26:26.960 happened in time

00:26:27.820 very often.

00:26:28.960 In other words,

00:26:30.380 to them,

00:26:31.980 ancient Greece

00:26:32.760 and the American

00:26:33.680 War of Independence

00:26:34.620 might have

00:26:35.720 happened a hundred

00:26:36.560 years apart.

00:26:38.740 Literally,

00:26:39.400 this is what he

00:26:39.960 said, right?

00:26:40.660 So if you have

00:26:41.620 people whose

00:26:42.220 thinking is

00:26:42.900 disjointed in

00:26:44.040 time and also

00:26:45.060 in space,

00:26:46.020 it means that

00:26:46.900 there are certain

00:26:47.400 things that

00:26:47.840 they're simply

00:26:48.360 not able to

00:26:49.060 understand.

00:26:49.520 We will see

00:26:49.880 this when we

00:26:50.360 analyze the

00:26:50.880 breaking points

00:26:51.420 video because

00:26:52.020 it just stands

00:26:53.000 out that people

00:26:53.820 that accomplished

00:26:54.920 and with such

00:26:55.880 a big audience

00:26:56.580 don't understand

00:26:57.620 basic things.

00:26:59.560 But if you're

00:27:00.940 dislocated in

00:27:01.860 time and space,

00:27:02.700 it means that

00:27:03.300 you have no

00:27:03.900 ability to

00:27:04.640 analyze and

00:27:05.460 assess the

00:27:06.400 thing you're

00:27:06.900 currently seeing

00:27:07.760 in its true

00:27:08.900 context.

00:27:09.960 Because history

00:27:11.020 is context.

00:27:13.300 That's the

00:27:14.360 point.

00:27:14.740 You can't

00:27:15.220 analyze whether

00:27:16.140 what human

00:27:16.660 beings are

00:27:17.100 doing today

00:27:17.800 is right

00:27:18.920 or wrong

00:27:19.380 or good

00:27:19.760 or bad

00:27:20.100 without

00:27:20.280 understanding

00:27:20.980 what human

00:27:21.500 beings have

00:27:21.900 always done.

00:27:22.620 Thomas Sowell is

00:27:23.180 one of the

00:27:23.480 things he always

00:27:23.840 talks about.

00:27:24.580 Their best way

00:27:25.340 to predict

00:27:26.440 human behavior

00:27:27.120 in the future

00:27:27.680 is to notice

00:27:28.880 human behavior

00:27:29.560 in the past.

00:27:30.120 So if you're

00:27:32.760 dislocated in

00:27:33.480 this way,

00:27:33.800 then you can't

00:27:34.600 even ask the

00:27:35.180 question of,

00:27:36.600 yes, these

00:27:37.080 things are

00:27:37.420 happening.

00:27:38.060 Why are they

00:27:39.020 happening?

00:27:40.180 If civilians

00:27:41.100 are dying in

00:27:41.760 Gaza, why is 0.52

00:27:42.980 that?

00:27:44.720 But if you

00:27:45.860 just see the

00:27:46.540 images and you

00:27:46.980 go, oh, that's

00:27:47.440 terrible, then

00:27:48.640 all of that

00:27:49.140 context goes

00:27:49.720 away entirely.

00:27:51.040 Of course.

00:27:51.620 And it's also

00:27:52.180 as well, but it

00:27:53.260 also comes down

00:27:54.060 to something else,

00:27:54.840 Konstantin.

00:27:55.300 And it's

00:27:56.020 something that

00:27:56.660 I have a

00:27:57.760 constant battle

00:27:58.380 with, and I

00:27:58.800 think everybody

00:27:59.400 has a constant

00:28:00.020 battle with,

00:28:00.600 which is ego,

00:28:01.780 which is you've

00:28:03.080 got to have the

00:28:04.080 humility to

00:28:05.340 realize there

00:28:06.220 are things that

00:28:06.820 you do not

00:28:07.480 understand in

00:28:08.220 this world.

00:28:09.220 I do not

00:28:10.240 comment on

00:28:11.400 whether Israel

00:28:13.180 should stop the

00:28:14.080 war or have

00:28:16.040 they gone too

00:28:16.780 far, because the

00:28:17.740 answer is I

00:28:18.380 don't know.

00:28:19.760 Thank God I've

00:28:20.900 never been in a

00:28:21.500 battlefield.

00:28:22.420 Thank God I've

00:28:23.000 never had to

00:28:23.500 join an army.

00:28:24.420 I am not a

00:28:25.280 military person,

00:28:26.140 I'm not a

00:28:26.620 military expert,

00:28:27.460 I'm not a

00:28:27.860 geopolitical expert.

00:28:29.360 I do not know

00:28:30.440 enough.

00:28:31.720 My job is to

00:28:32.820 investigate these

00:28:33.740 things like you

00:28:34.580 do and to

00:28:35.380 talk to people

00:28:36.960 far more

00:28:37.740 learned than

00:28:38.360 ourselves about

00:28:39.020 particular subjects.

00:28:40.260 As a result of

00:28:41.040 that, I think I've

00:28:41.660 got more

00:28:42.000 information than

00:28:42.680 your average

00:28:43.100 layman, but I

00:28:44.380 don't presume to

00:28:45.900 understand what

00:28:47.260 we should do when

00:28:48.620 it comes to

00:28:49.620 this war and

00:28:50.680 what the

00:28:51.020 ramifications are

00:28:52.020 going to be

00:28:52.540 afterwards.

00:28:53.240 Because UK,

00:28:53.940 okay, stop the

00:28:54.720 war.

00:28:55.280 Right?

00:28:55.840 And then

00:28:56.320 what?

00:28:57.720 And then

00:28:58.260 what?

00:28:58.820 What are we

00:28:59.320 going to do?

00:28:59.720 What's going to

00:29:00.120 happen with

00:29:00.540 Hamas? 0.90

00:29:01.300 What's going to

00:29:01.740 happen with

00:29:02.140 Fatah?

00:29:02.860 What's going to

00:29:03.380 happen with

00:29:03.760 I don't know.

00:29:05.280 I genuinely

00:29:06.040 don't know.

00:29:07.140 Well, if you

00:29:07.760 think about it,

00:29:09.060 nobody does.

00:29:10.520 That's why this

00:29:11.020 conflict's been

00:29:11.580 going on for as

00:29:12.460 long as it

00:29:12.840 has.

00:29:13.800 If someone had

00:29:15.200 a solution to

00:29:16.140 the Middle

00:29:16.520 East, we

00:29:18.420 would have had

00:29:19.280 it by now.

00:29:20.440 This is the

00:29:21.040 point.

00:29:21.420 It's very,

00:29:22.020 very difficult.

00:29:24.260 This is why

00:29:25.620 I think we

00:29:27.180 inevitably find

00:29:28.140 ourselves at

00:29:28.800 the point where

00:29:29.580 we need to

00:29:29.980 discuss the

00:29:30.460 breaking points

00:29:30.980 video.

00:29:31.860 This is why

00:29:32.640 as people will

00:29:34.620 see, they

00:29:35.340 position our

00:29:37.160 interview, which

00:29:37.760 they haven't

00:29:38.100 watched.

00:29:38.800 Yeah, because

00:29:39.800 that's the best

00:29:40.280 way to do

00:29:40.720 research, mate,

00:29:41.340 I think.

00:29:42.360 I always, you

00:29:43.080 know what, when

00:29:43.740 I'm researching

00:29:44.360 for a guest,

00:29:45.800 what I like to

00:29:46.980 do is go, is

00:29:48.120 just not do any

00:29:49.080 interview, is not

00:29:49.760 do any for

00:29:50.160 research.

00:29:51.040 It's kind of

00:29:51.520 meta.

00:29:52.480 I am laughing,

00:29:54.900 but it is sad.

00:29:55.980 Anyway, they

00:29:56.500 position our

00:29:57.060 interview, which

00:29:57.460 they haven't

00:29:57.820 watched, as us

00:29:59.720 trying to make

00:30:00.440 Netanyahu look

00:30:01.720 reasonable, when

00:30:03.180 in the last

00:30:04.040 question of the

00:30:04.820 interview, I

00:30:05.420 say to him,

00:30:06.420 how are you

00:30:06.960 actually going to

00:30:07.700 achieve peace?

00:30:08.840 Now, that seems

00:30:09.480 to me like a 0.99

00:30:10.040 pretty fucking 0.97

00:30:10.520 important question 0.99

00:30:11.340 to ask a person

00:30:12.480 who's involved in

00:30:13.220 a conflict.

00:30:13.620 What is your

00:30:14.560 peace process

00:30:15.900 that you have

00:30:16.820 in your head,

00:30:17.800 given the

00:30:18.340 realities on

00:30:19.040 the ground?

00:30:20.360 And they

00:30:21.020 present that as

00:30:22.160 us making him

00:30:23.120 look moderate.

00:30:23.960 Anyway, let's

00:30:24.420 watch the video

00:30:24.980 and we'll talk

00:30:25.700 about it, because

00:30:26.160 this is

00:30:26.420 incredible.

00:30:33.580 Fresh off his

00:30:34.820 blockbuster

00:30:35.460 appearance with

00:30:36.140 the NELC boys,

00:30:37.220 Benjamin Netanyahu

00:30:38.040 has now joined

00:30:38.960 the gentleman of

00:30:39.840 Triggernometry 0.94

00:30:40.460 for an appearance.

00:30:42.740 Admittedly, I

00:30:43.460 haven't had a

00:30:43.880 chance, this

00:30:44.240 came out last

00:30:44.720 night, so I

00:30:45.000 haven't had a

00:30:45.300 chance to watch

00:30:45.720 the whole thing.

00:30:46.280 Producer Griffin.

00:30:48.200 It doesn't

00:30:48.580 burn.

00:30:52.920 Do you know

00:30:53.420 what?

00:30:53.700 Maybe people have

00:30:54.380 got a point about

00:30:55.040 new media.

00:30:55.820 I take it back.

00:30:57.200 Right, they do.

00:30:58.220 By the way, I

00:30:58.940 should say, the

00:31:00.060 moment I saw this

00:31:00.920 video, now, you

00:31:01.660 know me, you will

00:31:02.480 confirm this, I

00:31:03.360 never ever get

00:31:04.400 annoyed about people

00:31:05.280 criticizing us, ever.

00:31:07.420 Right?

00:31:07.760 Because I'm like,

00:31:08.820 you want to put your

00:31:09.500 opinion out in public,

00:31:10.420 or you want to be a

00:31:11.120 public figure, or you

00:31:11.940 want to do things in

00:31:12.720 public, people are

00:31:13.600 going to have an

00:31:14.020 opinion.

00:31:14.500 I always give this

00:31:15.360 example, do you know

00:31:16.960 who Steph Curry is?

00:31:18.000 Yes.

00:31:18.600 So, Steph Curry, for

00:31:19.520 people who don't

00:31:20.020 know, is an amazing

00:31:21.700 basketball player in

00:31:22.920 the NBA, to the

00:31:23.720 point where he's not

00:31:24.800 just amazing, he's

00:31:26.340 like one of those

00:31:27.060 once-in-a-generation

00:31:28.020 people who actually

00:31:29.040 changed the game.

00:31:29.920 Yeah.

00:31:30.440 And by all accounts,

00:31:31.360 he's a great guy, a

00:31:32.800 great family man, a

00:31:34.380 brilliant player, a

00:31:35.220 brilliant teammate, and 0.99

00:31:35.940 I fucking hate him. 0.99

00:31:37.420 And I do, because he 1.00

00:31:39.100 changed the game in a

00:31:40.240 way that I don't like.

00:31:41.320 I grew up in the

00:31:42.580 Michael Jordan era,

00:31:43.860 where people basically

00:31:45.000 hardly ever shot three

00:31:46.240 points.

00:31:47.600 Steph Curry can shoot

00:31:48.580 them from a halfway 0.91

00:31:49.260 line, and it's changed

00:31:50.200 the game entirely, and

00:31:51.440 because of that, I think

00:31:52.560 it's kind of boring.

00:31:53.480 I don't like it as

00:31:54.300 much.

00:31:54.680 I hate this guy, who's 0.96

00:31:55.600 in it, by all accounts, 0.90

00:31:56.460 a great guy.

00:31:57.180 Yeah.

00:31:57.360 My point being, the

00:31:58.480 moment you are in the

00:31:59.320 public eye, people are

00:32:00.520 going to have their

00:32:01.020 opinions about you,

00:32:01.960 they're going to like to

00:32:02.780 hate you.

00:32:03.440 I totally understand, and

00:32:04.920 I have no problem with

00:32:05.740 it.

00:32:05.880 When I watched this

00:32:07.760 video, I literally, I 0.99

00:32:10.340 fucking exploded. 0.99

00:32:11.740 I was like, how can you 1.00

00:32:12.880 be so stupid? 1.00

00:32:13.940 Their channel has the 1.00

00:32:14.800 same number of

00:32:15.360 subscribers as ours.

00:32:16.200 They've got a big

00:32:16.940 YouTube channel, and

00:32:17.980 look at them.

00:32:19.240 Look at the way they

00:32:19.860 presented it.

00:32:20.360 They purport to be

00:32:21.260 journalists, right?

00:32:23.100 And this is how they

00:32:24.020 start this video.

00:32:26.280 Admittedly, I haven't

00:32:27.240 watched it, but my

00:32:28.500 producer has picked out

00:32:29.700 a clip that totally

00:32:30.460 misrepresents the

00:32:31.400 interview.

00:32:32.420 Let's talk about it.

00:32:33.320 I know, I know, and

00:32:35.220 this, the thing that I

00:32:37.880 found, it's almost a

00:32:40.540 satirical parody of new

00:32:42.300 media.

00:32:43.100 There's a comedian who

00:32:44.140 I actually want to have

00:32:44.860 on the show called

00:32:45.460 Mark Maron, who is

00:32:46.240 highly critical of new

00:32:47.700 media, and to be fair,

00:32:49.340 I think he makes a

00:32:49.960 number of good points,

00:32:50.580 and he's very funny

00:32:51.180 about it.

00:32:52.620 But this is like

00:32:53.600 something, this is like

00:32:55.180 a sketch Mark would

00:32:56.320 write.

00:32:57.100 If the SNL did a

00:32:58.540 sketch, this is the

00:33:00.360 opening line.

00:33:01.180 Now, I haven't seen

00:33:01.960 this thing.

00:33:02.520 I haven't seen this

00:33:03.680 interview, but listen

00:33:04.720 to me make a half an

00:33:05.700 hour video about it

00:33:06.640 where I commented

00:33:07.320 about it in depth.

00:33:08.640 Do you know, there's a

00:33:09.160 very famous Soviet joke 0.97

00:33:10.980 about this, where there

00:33:11.760 was a poet called

00:33:12.640 Brodsky, who was, he

00:33:13.980 was being prosecuted in

00:33:16.060 Russia, in Soviet

00:33:17.640 Russia, for basically

00:33:19.420 having the wrong

00:33:19.980 opinion.

00:33:21.080 And at his trial, one

00:33:22.740 of the people said, I

00:33:23.580 haven't listened to his

00:33:24.460 poetry, but I'd just

00:33:25.380 like to say.

00:33:27.420 This is like, how

00:33:28.800 are you?

00:33:29.140 Anyway, let's see what

00:33:32.660 opinions she has, having

00:33:33.880 not watched the

00:33:34.440 interview.

00:33:36.900 Producer Griffin pulled

00:33:38.000 a couple clips that he

00:33:38.920 thought were

00:33:39.620 interesting.

00:33:40.500 Let's go ahead and

00:33:41.020 take a listen to this

00:33:41.880 first one.

00:33:42.340 This is Konstantin

00:33:43.300 saying basically, listen,

00:33:44.500 I don't think there's

00:33:45.120 any peace possible with

00:33:46.680 these people in Gaza

00:33:47.700 because they are

00:33:48.560 quote-unquote Jew 0.97

00:33:49.480 haters.

00:33:50.080 Let's take a listen.

00:33:52.080 I didn't say no peace

00:33:53.520 is possible.

00:33:54.200 I'm saying how are you

00:33:55.360 going to get to peace?

00:33:56.360 As I said before, that's

00:33:57.840 what a journalist is

00:33:58.620 supposed to ask the

00:33:59.680 Prime Minister of

00:34:00.460 Israel.

00:34:01.400 How are you planning to

00:34:02.540 get peace when this is

00:34:03.700 a reality on the

00:34:04.480 ground?

00:34:04.820 By the way, forgive me

00:34:05.860 for calling the people

00:34:08.060 who support Hamas 0.73

00:34:08.980 overwhelmingly Jew 0.99

00:34:09.900 haters.

00:34:11.400 I mean, is that a

00:34:13.120 contested claim?

00:34:15.660 I don't...

00:34:16.940 I don't understand what

00:34:18.380 she's saying.

00:34:18.800 Is she saying they're

00:34:19.320 not Jew haters?

00:34:20.040 Yeah.

00:34:20.820 Yeah, I think if you

00:34:22.600 want the river to the 0.98

00:34:24.140 sea, Palestine to be 0.90

00:34:26.020 free, which is the

00:34:26.780 obliteration of the

00:34:27.640 Israeli state, you are 0.97

00:34:29.380 a Jew.

00:34:30.240 Has she not seen

00:34:31.020 clips of the education

00:34:32.380 system in Gaza and

00:34:33.520 videos on TV where

00:34:34.500 they're literally teaching

00:34:35.960 their children that Jews 1.00

00:34:37.340 are like rats? 1.00

00:34:38.520 Yeah.

00:34:39.020 And I wouldn't say...

00:34:39.640 Yeah.

00:34:40.000 And let's take the word

00:34:41.180 teaching and put

00:34:41.960 indoctrinate in there.

00:34:43.460 Has she not seen that?

00:34:44.300 Has she not seen the

00:34:44.860 polling from Gaza?

00:34:46.300 Yeah.

00:34:46.500 Does she not know what

00:34:47.720 Hamas actually stands for?

00:34:49.480 But this is the thing.

00:34:50.480 This is people who

00:34:51.520 comment about the

00:34:52.300 Middle East, who know 0.61

00:34:53.540 nothing about the

00:34:54.840 Middle East.

00:34:55.360 It's why, you know,

00:34:56.660 and Douglas Murray got

00:34:57.620 in trouble for this when

00:34:58.500 he said the immortal

00:34:59.260 words, you've never

00:35:00.020 been.

00:35:00.700 But as somebody who

00:35:01.660 has Lebanese heritage

00:35:03.500 and talks to their

00:35:05.520 Lebanese family, people

00:35:08.060 don't understand that the

00:35:09.340 way people think in that

00:35:10.500 part of the world and the

00:35:11.480 attitudes they have are

00:35:13.060 very, very, very

00:35:14.760 different from the

00:35:15.960 attitudes people hold

00:35:17.000 in the West.

00:35:17.780 But you can think that

00:35:19.000 what Israel is doing is 0.94

00:35:20.300 evil and wrong and

00:35:21.600 terrible in every way and

00:35:22.980 blah, blah, blah.

00:35:23.580 But you can't deny that

00:35:25.600 people in Gaza

00:35:26.580 overwhelmingly hate

00:35:27.960 Israel and Jews. 0.79

00:35:29.680 Yes.

00:35:31.080 That's not a contestable

00:35:33.500 claim.

00:35:33.860 That's just a statement of

00:35:34.760 fact.

00:35:35.640 Absolutely.

00:35:36.380 Absolutely.

00:35:36.960 But again, it goes back

00:35:38.960 to, and we've got this

00:35:40.520 interview coming out with

00:35:41.380 Tom Holland, which is

00:35:42.300 absolutely brilliant, where

00:35:44.060 Tom talks about the fact

00:35:45.400 that even if you're an

00:35:46.340 atheist, even if you have

00:35:48.240 met, you think to

00:35:49.100 yourself that you are not

00:35:49.980 Christian in any way, you

00:35:51.700 have been raised into a

00:35:54.120 society with Christian 0.90

00:35:55.680 morals and values and a

00:35:57.320 Christian outlook.

00:35:58.500 That is the waters that

00:36:00.520 you swim in.

00:36:01.940 And so naturally, in our

00:36:03.560 culture and our society, we

00:36:05.240 think that everybody else is

00:36:07.080 raised with Christian values

00:36:08.240 and morals.

00:36:08.860 And that is quite simply not

00:36:10.720 the case.

00:36:11.740 Right.

00:36:12.500 And people don't seem to

00:36:13.660 understand that.

00:36:14.720 They seem to think, and

00:36:16.220 this is the reason why we

00:36:17.780 thought we could bring

00:36:18.500 democracy to the Middle

00:36:20.040 East, why we could go out

00:36:21.600 and that people would all

00:36:23.220 of a sudden want democracy

00:36:24.540 and Western values.

00:36:26.360 But that is a form of

00:36:28.080 arrogance because we

00:36:29.600 believe everyone thinks

00:36:30.560 like us, but they don't

00:36:32.380 because they've been raised

00:36:33.360 with a different value, a

00:36:34.680 different culture and a

00:36:35.800 different religion. 0.89

00:36:37.240 They hate you. 0.99

00:36:38.480 They hate Israel and they 1.00

00:36:39.900 hate Jews. 0.98

00:36:40.580 How are you going to have a 0.99

00:36:42.960 peaceful coexistence with

00:36:44.700 those people, particularly

00:36:45.820 successful progress of

00:36:47.880 de-radicalization in some

00:36:50.180 of the Gulf states, which

00:36:52.160 are actually proving to be

00:36:54.400 to break the, you know,

00:36:57.000 this prototype of Arab

00:36:58.200 societies that cannot seize

00:36:59.600 the future?

00:37:00.200 I'm not saying they're model

00:37:01.100 democracies, mind you.

00:37:02.580 They're not.

00:37:03.520 But they're certainly, they

00:37:04.800 certainly want to seize

00:37:06.300 modernity and not go back

00:37:07.900 to the savage and early

00:37:10.520 medievalism.

00:37:11.980 Please tell me how

00:37:13.440 Constantine is making

00:37:15.160 Netanyahu sound more

00:37:16.240 moderate than him.

00:37:17.060 And like, yeah, just the

00:37:18.960 idea that, okay, you know,

00:37:20.520 these people hate you.

00:37:21.340 Yeah, gee, I wonder why.

00:37:22.720 Maybe it's because they've

00:37:23.620 been like occupied and

00:37:25.040 being starved and bombed to

00:37:26.680 pieces for, you know, and

00:37:28.720 not even just post-October

00:37:29.940 7th.

00:37:30.360 But also, Sagar, you can

00:37:31.580 speak to this.

00:37:33.940 Do you think she's read the

00:37:35.100 Quran? 0.78

00:37:36.180 No.

00:37:36.380 Do you think she understands

00:37:37.980 the history of how

00:37:40.980 Christians and Jews have

00:37:42.180 always been treated in the

00:37:43.740 Muslim world? 0.98

00:37:44.660 No.

00:37:45.200 Christians and Jews are 0.98

00:37:46.420 by definition second-class 0.91

00:37:48.440 citizens.

00:37:48.980 Doesn't mean they were

00:37:49.640 killed necessarily or

00:37:51.280 whatever, but people of

00:37:52.780 the book, Christians and

00:37:53.840 Jews in Muslim society

00:37:55.040 throughout history, were

00:37:56.360 by definition second-class

00:37:57.960 citizens.

00:37:59.140 By definition, looked down

00:38:00.580 upon.

00:38:00.920 By definition, having to

00:38:02.040 pay a different tax, use a

00:38:03.520 different, you know, like

00:38:05.200 ride a donkey instead of a

00:38:07.020 horse, all of this other

00:38:07.780 stuff.

00:38:08.040 She thinks that many Muslims 0.98

00:38:13.940 hate Jews because of Gaza. 0.88

00:38:20.320 It's somebody, and again, we 0.70

00:38:22.160 go back to this, who's got no

00:38:23.840 understanding of the Middle

00:38:24.800 East.

00:38:25.660 My family, my grandfather's

00:38:27.280 family, are from Lebanon.

00:38:30.140 They are, if you look at South

00:38:32.980 America, in particular, Colombia

00:38:34.600 and Venezuela, it has hundreds

00:38:38.640 of thousands of Lebanese,

00:38:41.260 Syrian, and Middle Eastern

00:38:42.460 Christians. 0.51

00:38:43.580 Why is that?

00:38:44.900 Did they just go there because

00:38:46.040 they fancied a nice little

00:38:47.060 beach holiday?

00:38:48.240 You know, they liked, you

00:38:49.060 know, dancing along with the

00:38:50.120 maracas.

00:38:50.540 I know that's Mexican, but you 1.00

00:38:51.520 get my point.

00:38:52.640 They liked a little bit of

00:38:53.780 samba and a carnival.

00:38:54.920 No.

00:38:55.560 They fled for their lives

00:38:56.960 because they knew what would

00:38:58.340 happen.

00:38:58.900 Was Israel attacking them?

00:39:00.720 Might well have been, mate.

00:39:01.480 But that's the sort of thing

00:39:03.940 that she probably thinks.

00:39:04.900 Yeah.

00:39:05.720 She probably thinks the

00:39:06.860 entire Middle East, which was

00:39:08.000 completely Christian, completely 0.98

00:39:10.180 Christian, and now isn't, is 1.00

00:39:12.460 because of Israel.

00:39:13.920 Yeah.

00:39:14.600 And it's a complete historical

00:39:16.900 illiteracy.

00:39:18.260 It's a not understanding of the

00:39:20.140 Middle East and its history,

00:39:21.820 which is complicated and tragic

00:39:24.240 and bloodsourced.

00:39:25.080 The people who are the

00:39:26.000 precursors to Hamas, the Muslim

00:39:27.620 Brotherhood, right, they joined

00:39:29.620 forces with Hitler before Israel

00:39:31.220 even existed.

00:39:32.400 Yeah.

00:39:33.380 Like, what is she talking

00:39:35.060 about?

00:39:36.600 But you see, this goes back to

00:39:39.020 what I was talking about, which

00:39:40.220 has been with argument A and

00:39:41.760 argument B.

00:39:42.840 And if you want to be with

00:39:44.200 argument A, let's just call it

00:39:45.840 that's the side that breaking

00:39:47.120 points are on, the anti-war, the

00:39:48.760 stop the war, the whatever else.

00:39:50.900 Then what you have to do is you

00:39:54.580 have to be blind to the history

00:39:56.800 and to what has happened. 0.99

00:39:59.600 She's making me fucking 0.99

00:40:00.460 appreciate Dave Smith. 0.98

00:40:02.080 At least she's read something.

00:40:04.000 Yeah.

00:40:05.020 Like, how is she?

00:40:07.200 It's so frustrating because, look,

00:40:08.900 like I said, people are allowed to

00:40:10.240 criticize, they're allowed to have

00:40:11.140 their own opinion.

00:40:11.680 But if you're going to comment on

00:40:14.040 something like this and you don't

00:40:16.280 know anything, how are you called

00:40:17.780 crystal ball and you have no

00:40:19.180 knowledge or insight?

00:40:20.340 How did that happen?

00:40:21.840 And by the way, if it sounds like

00:40:23.120 we're slagging them off, right, the

00:40:24.960 moment we saw this video released, we

00:40:26.820 had our team reach out to them and

00:40:28.180 say, I would be very happy to come

00:40:29.540 on and discuss this.

00:40:30.560 They read our email and guess what?

00:40:32.040 No response.

00:40:32.760 Yeah.

00:40:33.100 Right.

00:40:33.560 Anyway, this is making me angry.

00:40:35.040 Keep watching.

00:40:36.440 It's October 7th.

00:40:37.340 But also, Sagar, you can speak to

00:40:38.840 this.

00:40:39.300 How many times throughout history have

00:40:40.460 we seen bitter enemies who hate

00:40:42.380 each other?

00:40:43.140 And guess what?

00:40:43.780 When you're able to come up with

00:40:45.120 some sort of a peace deal and have

00:40:47.360 a coexistence, you know, that fades

00:40:49.360 over.

00:40:49.660 So we can see it with our own

00:40:50.500 country.

00:40:51.080 You know, we were bitter enemies,

00:40:52.500 obviously went to war with Germany and

00:40:53.800 Japan.

00:40:54.040 And now these are some of our

00:40:55.020 closest allies.

00:40:55.820 We can see it inside of our own

00:40:56.860 country.

00:41:00.980 Did you hear what she just said?

00:41:03.500 Did you hear what she just said?

00:41:04.680 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:05.900 When you have some sort of peace

00:41:07.520 plan, then you can come together

00:41:10.260 like we did with Germany and Japan.

00:41:13.160 You dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan 0.63

00:41:17.980 and you flattened Germany. 0.68

00:41:21.040 And arguably, the bombing was worse.

00:41:24.520 It was way worse.

00:41:26.340 And now you're presenting that as the

00:41:28.660 way to approach Gaza, where you're

00:41:31.380 criticizing Netanyahu for what he's

00:41:33.080 doing.

00:41:35.020 What?

00:41:36.700 I don't think anyone's ever seen me

00:41:39.100 this as aspirated.

00:41:40.300 I am not regularly confronted with this

00:41:42.080 level of retardation. 0.98

00:41:43.160 What is she talking about?

00:41:47.120 But look, again, it goes back to a

00:41:49.860 historical illiteracy, because if you

00:41:51.860 knew about the Second World War, if you

00:41:54.700 knew...

00:41:55.560 That's what I asked Netanyahu about.

00:41:57.460 That's why I was saying to him, what is

00:41:59.020 your approach to peace, given that you've

00:42:01.140 got a radicalized population like you had

00:42:03.520 in Nazi Germany and like you had in Japan?

00:42:06.200 It's almost like they didn't watch the

00:42:07.260 video, mate.

00:42:07.740 In Germany, after the war, if you wanted to

00:42:12.600 get a food parcel as a German, you had to go 1.00

00:42:14.920 and watch a movie about the Holocaust to

00:42:17.260 get it.

00:42:17.860 Yeah.

00:42:18.160 That was the level of de-radicalization that

00:42:20.440 had to happen.

00:42:21.440 Yeah.

00:42:21.560 Help me, Francis.

00:42:27.100 How is this possible?

00:42:29.220 How are these people talking on YouTube?

00:42:31.760 How...

00:42:32.160 And I went in the...

00:42:32.860 I confess.

00:42:33.940 I don't usually read the comments.

00:42:35.400 I went in the comments expecting people to 1.00

00:42:37.300 obviously go, this is so stupid. 1.00

00:42:38.680 They all agree with her. 1.00

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00:44:53.920 Look, this is, and again, to me, this is the issue

00:45:02.480 with new media and this is the issue with the internet

00:45:04.400 in that you can have these views and opinions,

00:45:07.060 but if you don't have people to challenge them,

00:45:09.560 if you don't have people for the opposite side,

00:45:11.980 then what happens is you get these views and opinions

00:45:15.620 and they're nonsensical, but because they're not

00:45:19.160 robustly challenged, people don't point out

00:45:21.900 and the flaws with your argument.

00:45:23.320 That seemed to happen to Ann Coulter in this very

00:45:25.980 review, if you remember.

00:45:27.180 Yeah.

00:45:27.440 But Saga knows history.

00:45:28.860 Yeah.

00:45:29.220 Right?

00:45:29.820 And he just sits there and nods along.

00:45:31.580 Yeah.

00:45:33.500 What's going on?

00:45:39.720 Our own country, north and south.

00:45:41.220 Yeah, it's true.

00:45:41.500 Took a long time to shake out.

00:45:42.920 Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:45:43.560 I mean, that is the Israeli line, which drives me more insane 1.00

00:45:47.900 than any other, is we can't be expected to live next to

00:45:51.200 these people.

00:45:51.620 No, actually, you can.

00:45:53.060 If India has to live next to Pakistan, you can do it too. 1.00

00:45:56.000 All right?

00:45:56.380 Yeah, they both have nuclear weapons and mutually assured

00:45:59.060 destruction.

00:45:59.720 If Iran has to live next to Saudi Arabia, then so can you. 0.98

00:46:03.040 I could go on forever.

00:46:03.720 Northern Ireland and Ireland.

00:46:05.160 Yeah, absolutely.

00:46:05.560 I mean, how many of these have we now lived through?

00:46:08.920 They're like, they actually, Israeli exception is that they 0.99

00:46:12.440 want to be the only nation in the history of the world that

00:46:15.620 actually is not required to live next to the people.

00:46:19.620 What, again, that speaks to you.

00:46:21.160 So you're talking about Ireland and Northern Ireland.

00:46:23.740 You know, that, Ireland was a civil war, but that is very

00:46:26.660 different.

00:46:27.780 And by the way, Irish family, Irish heritage, all the rest of

00:46:32.320 it, I know a little bit about the history of Ireland.

00:46:34.540 Ireland, that is very, very different.

00:46:37.140 I find it actually really frustrating when people compare

00:46:40.260 Northern Ireland to what is happening.

00:46:42.580 Now, of course, there was hatred.

00:46:43.820 Of course, people were dying.

00:46:45.200 Of course, there were murders.

00:46:46.300 There were bombs.

00:46:46.900 There were terrorism.

00:46:47.540 It was tragic, awful.

00:46:48.880 The history of Ireland is particularly blood-soaked and

00:46:51.500 brutal, but it does not compare to the Middle East.

00:46:55.400 It's a completely different thing.

00:46:57.440 You have one religion in Ireland split into two factions,

00:47:01.620 Protestantism, Catholicism.

00:47:03.940 In the Middle East, you have Islam and Judaism. 0.75

00:47:08.200 You don't only have Islam, you have Islamism. 0.99

00:47:11.860 You cannot compare, in my view, Christian extremism, which is what you 1.00

00:47:16.760 have, and Islamism.

00:47:19.020 Islamism, which is what Hamas is, is a type of religious ideology that

00:47:27.780 celebrates the death of their own children in order to achieve a political outcome.

00:47:34.840 You get extremists in Northern Ireland, you get people like Bobby Sands who will go and

00:47:41.060 hang a strike and will die and will not eat for his political cause. 0.58

00:47:45.300 I doubt Bobby Sands would have wanted his own children to die of starvation and to see

00:47:49.980 them suffer.

00:47:51.580 Hamas and Islamists see that as a noble outcome and something to be celebrated. 0.83

00:47:58.880 That is highly different.

00:48:01.460 And also, I wasn't advocating in my question to Netanyahu that they shouldn't live next to 0.88

00:48:08.680 people in Gaza, nor was that what Netanyahu was saying.

00:48:11.520 He was saying we need a program of deradicalization so these people don't want to kill us all the

00:48:16.700 time.

00:48:17.100 Then we can live in peace.

00:48:18.300 That's his mission, as he believes it to be.

00:48:22.100 So no one is saying, at least they're not saying, Netanyahu's not saying and we're not

00:48:27.000 saying, that they can't.

00:48:28.640 That wasn't what was said in that interview.

00:48:30.400 No.

00:48:30.960 I don't know what they're talking about.

00:48:32.740 No.

00:48:33.620 No.

00:48:34.000 And again, it goes back to what are you doing is taking clips from an interview without

00:48:39.600 context.

00:48:40.520 You haven't done the work.

00:48:41.960 You don't have the background understanding.

00:48:44.560 If you take something and go, look, this is a clip from the interview.

00:48:48.300 Just for the audience, you have to know that this was discussed, this was discussed, this

00:48:52.240 was discussed.

00:48:52.920 They did the same thing with me where they took...

00:48:55.120 Well, we'll get to it.

00:48:55.740 Yeah, yeah, we'll get to it.

00:48:56.920 And so you just go, actually, you don't know what you're talking about.

00:49:01.240 They don't.

00:49:02.000 It's like...

00:49:02.840 It's like...

00:49:03.860 And by the way, we should say, they're intelligent people.

00:49:07.140 Yeah.

00:49:08.440 I assume.

00:49:09.440 Yeah.

00:49:09.780 No, they are.

00:49:10.300 They are, right? 0.63

00:49:12.080 But I guess ignorance combined with intelligence is actually the worst outcome.

00:49:17.680 Absolutely. 0.99

00:49:18.120 Because if you're smart and you're ignorant, then what you can do is you can logically argue 0.91

00:49:23.580 your way into any position, which is what we've seen with a lot of the kind of the progressive 0.94

00:49:28.340 hyper-liberal movements and what we've seen with the woke right, where you're smart so

00:49:34.000 you can go, oh, you know, diversity of our strength is bad.

00:49:37.720 Therefore, hey, let's all support white people. 0.94

00:49:41.900 Nothing wrong with supporting white people, but we don't want identity politics for any group, 0.75

00:49:46.020 really.

00:49:46.220 Yeah, exactly.

00:49:47.380 Yeah.

00:49:47.780 I don't mean supporting white people. 0.84

00:49:49.260 I mean, let's now get revenge, which is what it is. 0.90

00:49:52.360 That's what you're saying.

00:49:53.100 Yeah.

00:49:53.420 Okay.

00:49:54.400 Better question is how, you know, Palestinians after this genocide of them could be expected 1.00

00:50:00.020 to live next to the Israelis.

00:50:01.720 But...

00:50:01.920 But that's something we should expect of them, too. 0.99

00:50:03.420 We're like, listen, you got a shit deal, but you have to live here. 0.99

00:50:06.060 That's exactly right. 0.99

00:50:06.980 I mean, that's the nature of, you know, of humanity.

00:50:10.500 That's the nature of being able to have some sort of an agreement.

00:50:14.400 And yes, over time, not to say that there won't be continued to be tensions as there

00:50:18.820 are, you know, in Ireland and Northern Ireland, like there continue to be tensions.

00:50:22.520 But the idea that, oh, no, you couldn't possibly live next to these is just preposterous and

00:50:27.740 historically illiterate.

00:50:28.780 But there was another interesting section where the other host, Francis, is pressing Netanyahu

00:50:33.760 a bit on some of the comments of, you know, the Smotrichs and the Ben Gavirs.

00:50:38.120 Let's go ahead and take a listen to how that went down.

00:50:40.740 There are critics of yours, Prime Minister, who will say, well, part of the reason that

00:50:46.440 Israel is losing the propaganda war is when you have ministers like Smotrich making incendiary

00:50:53.420 or inflammatory comments, and there doesn't seem to be any particular pushback from your

00:50:58.660 government to this.

00:50:59.980 They go, well, what does what does a prime minister really believe?

00:51:05.100 Well, what I believe I say in a parliamentary system, people are free to say.

00:51:09.320 Sometimes they say things they don't quite mean.

00:51:11.520 It happens all the time.

00:51:12.820 You have a very active fringe.

00:51:15.400 Prime Minister, forgive me, but these aren't parliamentarians.

00:51:17.680 These are people who are part of your government and they remain part of your government after

00:51:21.680 they say these things that to many people, even your friends, sound a little bit like

00:51:26.200 ethnic cleansing is being discussed.

00:51:28.200 Well, we're not discussing ethnic cleansing.

00:51:30.240 And to the extent that we have these conversations around the cabinet, the security cabinet, that

00:51:34.580 is actually not being discussed by these people.

00:51:37.380 But Prime Minister, may I just interrupt?

00:51:39.080 When you have your finance minister making a speech and talking about occupying Gaza and

00:51:44.660 there doesn't seem to be any pushback within the government, people quite rightly, in my opinion,

00:51:49.860 would say, well, surely aren't you condoning that type of rhetoric?

00:51:53.660 No.

00:51:54.000 And that is exacerbating Israel's PR problem.

00:51:57.320 I disagree completely.

00:51:58.520 When somebody says that and I'm asked, is that your policy?

00:52:01.320 And I say, no, it's not my policy.

00:52:03.280 I don't intend to build the settlements or communities in Gaza and not Israeli ones. 0.88

00:52:07.740 I want a non-Israeli civilian governance after that is committed to living in peace with us. 0.91

00:52:13.840 It is so unbelievably dishonest at this point to still pretend like that's not your policy

00:52:19.420 and like you condemn it and you have nothing to do with it.

00:52:22.100 But you also got to give me credit because I called that this would be exactly how he

00:52:25.200 would answer it.

00:52:25.220 Because I asked Crystal yesterday.

00:52:26.300 It's a democracy.

00:52:27.200 Yes, we have a fringe, inflammatory rhetoric, blah, blah, blah.

00:52:30.920 I was like, how is he going to square that?

00:52:32.600 Because it's true.

00:52:33.340 But I had not.

00:52:34.480 I didn't put myself in the mind of Bibi to be like, yes, we have free speech. 0.62

00:52:38.460 We have a vibrant society where we allow such things.

00:52:41.220 But I mean, to Francis's credit, he was like, no, it would be like somebody else.

00:52:47.440 You want me to pause it because they gave you credit?

00:52:49.060 Yeah, exactly.

00:52:49.940 You know what, mate?

00:52:50.540 I take it back.

00:52:51.180 He's all right.

00:52:53.460 Crystal fair enough, mate. 0.98

00:52:54.760 Saga, if you're watching this, we'll go for a beer.

00:52:57.480 Non-alcoholic, probably.

00:52:59.960 It would be like somebody else using Ilhan Omar's statements.

00:53:03.540 I mean, yeah, you could say that.

00:53:04.540 Be like, look, we have 435 members of Congress. 0.99

00:53:06.860 One of them, Marjorie Taylor Greene or Ilhan, they say some crazy shit sometimes, whatever. 0.94

00:53:10.620 But that is not the same whenever those people are actually in power, members of the government. 0.96

00:53:16.640 Members who—

00:53:17.340 And when the government policy reflects their desire.

00:53:20.320 And then government policy reflects their desire to the point where they're handing out weapons in the West Bank and or U.S. dollars,

00:53:28.880 which they then use to prop up their expansionist regime.

00:53:33.320 Yeah.

00:53:33.540 That's very different than, oh, we have free speech.

00:53:37.220 Yeah.

00:53:37.560 This is the thing about Bibi. 1.00

00:53:38.680 He's the master.

00:53:39.880 It's not like he has always, in his perfect Philadelphia-born English, you know, he understands which parts are distasteful, you know, to the U.S. public.

00:53:50.100 And so in English, he does not endorse any of this stuff.

00:53:52.580 But again, Google—in the age of Google Translate and AI, if I will, you can easily dub the stuff he says in Hebrew, and it's the same stuff.

00:54:02.040 That's right.

00:54:02.460 That's the stuff that drives me crazy, too.

00:54:04.380 Yeah, and that's part of what I think the framing of the question—I have all kinds of issues with the framing of the question.

00:54:09.940 First of all, the idea that Israel just has a PR problem is just disgusting, in my opinion, genocide.

00:54:15.680 We're going to get to that with Meghan.

00:54:17.060 She said that, too. 0.78

00:54:17.800 She's like, the Palestinians are masters of propaganda. 1.00

00:54:20.660 And that, you know, oh, the problem is just this incendiary rhetoric.

00:54:25.440 And why don't you do more to condemn this incendiary rhetoric?

00:54:29.020 Well, because he supports it.

00:54:30.920 Because he is the one implementing and pushing forward the policy that they want to see.

00:54:36.420 I mean, we're talking right now as Gaza City is—

00:54:39.240 Was there more you want to—

00:54:40.600 No, no, no.

00:54:41.340 Is that it?

00:54:42.020 You're happy to leave it there?

00:54:43.140 Yeah, that's pretty much it.

00:54:45.300 Apart from when she says that I'm one level above the Nelk boys, that we're one level above the Nelk boys.

00:54:52.140 Well, the Nelk boys have a bigger audience, so what are you going to do? 1.00

00:54:55.380 But I found that very interesting because her criticisms of me and for us is the framing of the question.

00:55:00.460 The framing of the question refers to a comment that Benjamin Netanyahu said and was talking about literally before that.

00:55:08.680 That's why we framed the question.

00:55:10.880 Yeah, but she hasn't seen the interview, so how could she know that?

00:55:14.200 So you're just going—you're making criticisms about the way that we're presenting the interview

00:55:19.080 and the questions that we are putting forward for an interview that you haven't watched.

00:55:24.840 So how can you possibly criticize?

00:55:27.060 But again, what it goes back to is the lack of journalistic rigor, number one.

00:55:34.980 But also—and this is a problem with journalism.

00:55:37.920 And it reminds me of comedians when they only played to the comedians at the back of the room

00:55:44.420 and they didn't care about the audience.

00:55:48.000 And you're going, you want us to behave in a way so that I look for your approval.

00:55:55.280 I look for the approval of the people who despise and hate Israel or Benjamin Netanyahu or condemn his actions,

00:56:05.120 which, fair enough, you are more than welcome to that.

00:56:08.940 But here's the thing.

00:56:10.620 I am not, and we are not going to conduct an interview, seeking your approval.

00:56:15.340 I don't care about your approval.

00:56:17.420 It doesn't interest me, actually, one way or another.

00:56:21.260 However, what we care about here is going after the truth and exposing the person sitting in front of us.

00:56:29.180 And again, not exposing him to be a far-right big or whatever else,

00:56:32.780 to expose the way he thinks, how he thinks, and why he thinks the way that he does.

00:56:37.300 And treating the audience like adults for them to make their own mind up.

00:56:41.960 You know, and it speaks to a comment that a very good friend of mine who will remain nameless

00:56:46.280 because I think he'd probably prefer to still have a career.

00:56:49.660 He messaged me.

00:56:50.720 He called me afterwards when the interview came out.

00:56:52.840 And he said, you know something, I've understood something that I hadn't quite thought of before,

00:56:57.220 which is the entire Western world, particularly people like this,

00:57:01.760 because we're kind of like doing queers for Palestine at scale.

00:57:11.760 In other words, we are people who are sitting in comfort and safety

00:57:16.700 and having all of these very clever, sophisticated opinions about a country

00:57:24.060 that actually is fighting for its survival.

00:57:26.780 That's what's happening.

00:57:27.860 And if something like October 7th had happened on Crystal's doorstep,

00:57:37.380 I don't imagine she'd be taking the position that she's taking.

00:57:41.600 No.

00:57:42.580 And this is, when we talk to Netanyahu, this is one of the things that I go,

00:57:45.880 and people can like or dislike it, but it's a fact.

00:57:48.440 I think he sees himself as the leader of his people at a time when he has a choice

00:57:54.740 between allowing their destruction or ensuring their survival.

00:57:59.380 That's what's happened.

00:58:00.880 And you can agree with that.

00:58:02.700 You can disagree with that.

00:58:03.960 But that is where he's coming at it from.

00:58:05.920 And you've got to understand his history.

00:58:07.220 I mean, I think he was in the Special Forces.

00:58:09.360 His brother died in an anti-terrorist hostage rescue mission.

00:58:14.760 He himself served.

00:58:15.800 So this isn't a guy who did PPE at Oxford and then went into politics.

00:58:23.180 This is a guy who's been fighting for Israel his entire life.

00:58:28.340 And, you know, I tried to get out of him in our interview,

00:58:31.840 but you can see it wasn't going anywhere, which is like,

00:58:33.800 how did you feel when October...

00:58:35.340 There was no feeling there at all.

00:58:36.620 You got the decision.

00:58:38.040 You know, it's so interesting.

00:58:45.300 I spoke to a number of people who are not remotely political

00:58:48.240 who watched that interview, and they all said the same thing.

00:58:51.540 Do you know what they said?

00:58:52.340 It's weird.

00:58:53.400 It's weird.

00:58:53.960 And this will be unpleasant to a lot of people to hear

00:58:56.100 who don't agree with what Israel is doing.

00:58:57.720 They all said the same thing.

00:58:59.160 This is what a prime minister looks like.

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00:59:18.460 But from January the 21st through July 21st,

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00:59:23.860 What about Bitcoin?

00:59:25.480 President Trump loves Bitcoin, so it must have performed well, right?

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01:00:40.260 And the truth is, man, and this is the truth.

01:00:45.720 If our country, this country, was in danger in the way that Israel was, 0.95

01:00:51.880 do you want Keir Starmer in charge?

01:00:55.100 Or do you want Benjamin Netanyahu?

01:00:56.720 I know which one I'm picking.

01:00:59.200 You know what I mean?

01:01:00.220 And so I just think a lot of this is people, as I've said many, many times before,

01:01:05.360 in air-conditioned studios having opinions about things that they demonstrably don't understand

01:01:10.480 from this excessive empathy and an inability to contextualize things in history.

01:01:17.860 And also to actually, you know,

01:01:19.480 empathy is partly about putting yourselves in the shoes of other people.

01:01:22.480 Well, put yourselves in the shoes of people who have to live next door to the people who committed

01:01:27.380 October the 7th.

01:01:29.020 How might you be thinking?

01:01:30.460 What might you be demanding on the airwaves on your big YouTube channel?

01:01:33.280 What might you be asking for?

01:01:35.000 We saw it with 9-11.

01:01:36.500 I don't remember a measured response.

01:01:38.360 No.

01:01:39.000 I don't remember people being all that concerned about innocent Iraqis,

01:01:42.820 and especially in America.

01:01:43.560 In Britain, we really pushed back against them as much as we could.

01:01:46.640 And Tony Blair was bullied into it, I believe, and went along with it.

01:01:50.000 In America, there was no such reticence.

01:01:55.500 They attacked us. 0.99

01:01:56.560 We're going to go and destroy the people who did. 0.98

01:01:58.420 Now, I don't think they handled it very well. 0.99

01:02:00.840 But I also am not a hypocrite enough to sit here and be like,

01:02:05.760 well, Israel can't go and destroy the government and organization that did this.

01:02:11.000 And if those people are putting their own civilians in harm's way to win the PR war,

01:02:15.620 that's not Israel's fault.

01:02:16.780 Well, this is, to me, and this is Rob Henderson's idea,

01:02:22.300 and we've had him on the show many times, and it's a luxury belief.

01:02:26.580 It's a luxury belief.

01:02:28.280 If you had, if America had Hezbollah firing rockets from Mexico... 0.74

01:02:34.240 There would be no Mexico. 0.99

01:02:35.060 Yeah.

01:02:35.620 It would just be a glass sheet.

01:02:38.080 Yeah.

01:02:38.840 There would be no Mexico. 0.99

01:02:40.040 Yeah.

01:02:40.220 And what's very interesting, and people may not know this, is so Hezbollah,

01:02:45.900 they're a terrorist, but they're also a drug-running organization.

01:02:50.460 There, in Venezuela, Venezuela has very close links with Iran.

01:02:54.400 It has very close links with Russia, with China, but particularly with Iran.

01:02:58.800 There is a little island off the coast of Venezuela,

01:03:02.060 which is part of Venezuelan territory, called the Island of Margarita.

01:03:05.320 At the moment, there is a Hezbollah training camp in Margarita.

01:03:10.080 That is just open knowledge.

01:03:11.460 Everybody knows that in Venezuela.

01:03:14.160 Trump is going to come down very hard on Venezuela in the next few months and years,

01:03:20.460 and they're talking about it openly and honestly.

01:03:22.620 Now, why is that?

01:03:23.660 Is it because they hate Venezuelans or the Venezuelan people,

01:03:26.140 or is it because they know that there is a direct security risk

01:03:29.260 having a Hezbollah training camp about a three-and-a-half-hour flight

01:03:33.340 away from Florida and Miami?

01:03:35.720 It's very simple.

01:03:37.700 And this idea that, and this is why, and I understand with America,

01:03:41.520 because if you live in a nation as powerful and as geographically isolated

01:03:45.120 as the United States, it gives you a certain,

01:03:48.480 well, why should I care?

01:03:50.020 Why should we get involved?

01:03:51.480 You know, this is awful.

01:03:52.540 And I get that, and I understand that.

01:03:54.340 It's one of the things that makes America so great,

01:03:56.400 is they don't have to worry about being invaded.

01:03:58.180 They don't have to worry about their land being taken over by enemies

01:04:02.140 and their people being destroyed.

01:04:04.100 They don't have to worry about that.

01:04:05.760 Most other countries in the world have to worry about it.

01:04:08.240 Absolutely.

01:04:09.340 But if you live in a country where you have another nation as powerful as Iran

01:04:15.480 using openly genocidal language, wiping off the face of the earth,

01:04:21.280 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, funding terrorist organizations

01:04:25.260 that fire rockets into your country, 0.95

01:04:28.180 that also fund Hamas,

01:04:32.140 and who then commit the atrocities that was October the 7th,

01:04:38.700 Iran directly funds Hamas.

01:04:41.760 You can make a very good, strong argument

01:04:44.480 that essentially Iran indirectly or directly,

01:04:48.100 actually directly funded October 7th.

01:04:50.240 By all accounts, by the way, just while we're on that,

01:04:54.380 just to be clear, by all accounts, what we know, I think so far,

01:04:57.940 is they did not know that it was specifically going to happen,

01:05:02.280 but they were aware of a general plan.

01:05:04.520 Absolutely.

01:05:05.180 And if you give money to an organization that openly advocates

01:05:09.240 for wiping Israel off the map, 0.52

01:05:11.560 I doubt you'd wake up the next day,

01:05:13.580 so October the 7th, and I'm like,

01:05:14.880 oh, that was a bit of an overreaction.

01:05:18.240 And it's just so obvious.

01:05:22.200 Like, the suffering in Gaza...

01:05:23.700 So people, what people tend to do is they go,

01:05:25.300 look at the suffering in Gaza,

01:05:27.120 therefore, and then they make a bunch of

01:05:29.180 completely unconnected statements.

01:05:30.980 The suffering in Gaza is awful.

01:05:32.620 It's awful.

01:05:34.000 It's terrible.

01:05:35.460 I'm a...

01:05:36.040 You know, people...

01:05:36.900 I never used to understand why people would say this

01:05:38.700 before I became a parent.

01:05:40.300 When you become a parent,

01:05:42.100 you experience a kind of very...

01:05:45.980 I was going to say very powerful.

01:05:47.460 It's not very powerful.

01:05:49.960 Overwhelming, debilitating vulnerability.

01:05:52.320 And when...

01:05:54.440 This is why when you see politicians go to the scene

01:05:56.960 of a mass shooting,

01:05:57.880 as we've tragically just had in America,

01:05:59.580 as we're recording this, or whatever,

01:06:00.680 and they always say,

01:06:01.760 I'm a parent to the parents.

01:06:03.560 And what they're trying to communicate is,

01:06:05.520 I understand your pain.

01:06:07.520 Because I can imagine,

01:06:09.060 because it's every parent's worst nightmare.

01:06:11.440 Of course.

01:06:13.620 I can't understand,

01:06:16.660 but I can just about imagine what it's like 0.98

01:06:19.120 to have your family killed. 0.86

01:06:20.380 And I know people in Ukraine 0.62

01:06:21.880 who've had that happen.

01:06:23.040 It's awful.

01:06:24.420 But the question you have to ask is,

01:06:26.800 why is this continuing?

01:06:29.320 Why is it still going on?

01:06:31.420 This could have ended.

01:06:32.640 This could have ended on October the 8th,

01:06:34.280 for God's sake.

01:06:35.180 All Hamas had to do 0.98

01:06:36.520 was return the hostages that they stole,

01:06:39.540 the people they stole from Israel, 0.70

01:06:41.940 many of whom have died,

01:06:43.800 and the remaining ones of whom

01:06:45.400 are being held in horrific conditions

01:06:46.960 and being forced to dig their own graves,

01:06:48.480 for God's sake,

01:06:49.600 and surrender the terrorists who took them.

01:06:51.880 That's all they had to do.

01:06:53.500 And they haven't.

01:06:54.660 And they still don't.

01:06:55.800 They could end this war tomorrow, 0.60

01:06:57.580 and they don't.

01:06:59.180 Why is that?

01:07:00.580 That's the question you have to ask.

01:07:01.880 Why do the people who have the ability

01:07:04.120 to end this war today

01:07:06.040 refuse to do so,

01:07:08.100 even though it means

01:07:09.000 tens of thousands of their fellow citizens

01:07:11.320 being killed?

01:07:12.640 Is it possible that they care more

01:07:14.220 about their political goals

01:07:15.380 than they do care about those civilians?

01:07:18.200 Absolutely.

01:07:19.120 And this is what the people,

01:07:20.680 this is what people refuse to talk about

01:07:22.840 when they talk about this.

01:07:24.000 It's why I find myself getting so frustrated

01:07:26.620 when,

01:07:27.700 and they also compare,

01:07:30.700 because there are extremists

01:07:31.940 on the Israeli side.

01:07:32.920 Let's just be honest about it.

01:07:33.960 Of course.

01:07:34.480 There's extremists on the Israeli side.

01:07:36.620 You know,

01:07:36.940 I've been reading about the settlers.

01:07:38.440 That is something

01:07:39.140 I am not very comfortable with.

01:07:40.620 Me neither.

01:07:41.160 At all.

01:07:41.680 And I don't think you are,

01:07:42.720 and there's a lot of people

01:07:43.620 who are pro-Israel

01:07:44.360 who think that,

01:07:45.600 actually,

01:07:46.140 the behavior by the settlers

01:07:47.220 is not good.

01:07:50.000 It's not good.

01:07:50.880 You look at some of the language

01:07:52.000 used by Smotrich and Ben-Gavir.

01:07:54.040 I condemn that language.

01:07:55.600 I condemn that language.

01:07:56.900 Absolutely.

01:07:57.980 No uncertain terms.

01:07:59.080 Which is why

01:08:00.020 we made the decision

01:08:01.020 to challenge.

01:08:03.480 Challenge Benjamin Netanyahu about it.

01:08:05.260 And we felt that was important.

01:08:07.800 But you can't tell me

01:08:09.480 the extremism is the same

01:08:11.680 on both sides.

01:08:12.560 You cannot tell me

01:08:14.160 that the extremism of the settlers

01:08:16.200 is equal to the extremism

01:08:18.780 of October 7th.

01:08:20.440 It's not.

01:08:21.060 You can't tell me that.

01:08:22.220 It's not.

01:08:23.620 It's not.

01:08:24.920 It's not.

01:08:25.300 I mean,

01:08:25.700 these people fundamentally

01:08:27.060 don't understand Islamism.

01:08:29.520 They just don't.

01:08:30.280 And they don't care to.

01:08:31.500 They much prefer to live

01:08:32.860 in a world where all cultures,

01:08:34.200 it's the same moral relativism

01:08:35.520 that we saw from the progressives.

01:08:36.880 this entire time.

01:08:38.300 All cultures are the same. 0.72

01:08:39.300 All cultures are equal. 0.99

01:08:40.000 No, they're fucking not. 0.98

01:08:40.940 No. 0.99

01:08:41.340 They're just not.

01:08:42.800 And if you want to understand

01:08:44.260 how they're not,

01:08:44.940 look at Europe.

01:08:46.980 What happens

01:08:47.780 as the demographics

01:08:48.560 of Europe change the world?

01:08:49.500 Guess what?

01:08:49.960 Sexual assault goes up.

01:08:51.100 I wonder why that is.

01:08:52.580 Is it possible

01:08:53.120 that importing lots of people

01:08:54.360 from cultures

01:08:54.940 that think women 1.00

01:08:55.860 are basically cattle,

01:08:57.660 is it possible

01:08:59.400 that that might increase

01:09:00.900 bad treatment of women 1.00

01:09:03.600 in our country?

01:09:04.220 And people are

01:09:06.220 very uncomfortable

01:09:06.800 about this.

01:09:07.560 I remember I was on a date.

01:09:08.600 I can see you've got

01:09:09.300 some kind of joke.

01:09:09.880 No, no,

01:09:10.420 because it's a true story.

01:09:11.600 It's funny

01:09:11.980 because I was saying,

01:09:13.120 you know,

01:09:13.400 we were talking,

01:09:14.160 I went on a date

01:09:14.800 with this girl

01:09:15.320 and she was like,

01:09:16.640 you know,

01:09:16.980 the,

01:09:17.820 you know,

01:09:18.280 I think it's disgusting

01:09:19.560 how people say

01:09:20.600 old cultures,

01:09:21.640 you know,

01:09:22.060 some cultures

01:09:22.780 are better than others.

01:09:23.500 I'm like,

01:09:24.140 well,

01:09:24.240 where would you rather live?

01:09:25.760 Here,

01:09:26.480 when we're going

01:09:26.900 for a nice

01:09:27.480 Japanese meal

01:09:28.640 in shortage

01:09:29.080 or under Taliban rule?

01:09:31.660 In Afghanistan.

01:09:32.500 In Afghanistan.

01:09:33.360 And that was the end

01:09:34.000 of the day.

01:09:35.960 The day never recovered.

01:09:37.620 It never recovered.

01:09:39.040 But.

01:09:40.000 But that's how people think.

01:09:41.560 They refuse to see this.

01:09:43.300 That's why we've had

01:09:44.700 mass waves

01:09:46.500 of illegal immigration

01:09:47.500 from cultures

01:09:48.220 that we don't want here.

01:09:49.460 Because that's how people think.

01:09:50.960 They think.

01:09:52.140 See,

01:09:52.580 this is the problem,

01:09:53.480 right?

01:09:55.240 This is the central myth

01:09:57.060 that I think

01:09:58.960 liberalism has created.

01:10:01.120 And I'm a big fan

01:10:01.840 of liberalism,

01:10:02.400 but I think this is

01:10:03.060 one of its big flaws.

01:10:04.900 That whole thing

01:10:05.880 about all men

01:10:06.640 are created equal

01:10:07.520 in the U.S. Constitution.

01:10:11.140 What I think

01:10:11.900 it was meant to mean

01:10:12.800 was that all people

01:10:14.120 should be

01:10:14.740 given equal opportunity.

01:10:17.240 Absolutely.

01:10:18.120 Right.

01:10:19.540 But people aren't equal.

01:10:21.640 Oh.

01:10:21.760 And your culture,

01:10:23.420 I mean,

01:10:23.700 it's one of the reasons

01:10:24.360 you want your child

01:10:25.200 to get a good education

01:10:26.280 and you want them

01:10:26.960 to be raised

01:10:27.500 and you want to raise

01:10:28.480 them well,

01:10:28.980 et cetera,

01:10:29.260 because you recognize

01:10:30.520 that a failure

01:10:31.300 to educate them properly

01:10:32.460 and a failure

01:10:32.960 to bring them up properly

01:10:34.820 will make them

01:10:35.760 into a worse person.

01:10:37.640 Right?

01:10:38.100 Now,

01:10:38.420 what if you have

01:10:38.840 a whole culture

01:10:39.580 that's teaching children

01:10:41.420 to be a worse person

01:10:42.660 or a better person?

01:10:44.140 that's what we mean

01:10:45.520 when we say

01:10:46.100 not all cultures are equal 0.99

01:10:47.240 and that's just

01:10:47.920 an observable fact.

01:10:50.020 Yeah.

01:10:50.560 It's just a reality

01:10:51.920 that you can see

01:10:52.660 before you.

01:10:55.000 And this is what people

01:10:56.760 don't want to engage with

01:10:58.240 and the reason

01:10:58.740 they don't want to engage

01:10:59.820 with it

01:11:00.120 is because it's

01:11:00.780 desperately uncomfortable.

01:11:02.160 It's a central myth,

01:11:03.180 like I say.

01:11:03.900 Yeah,

01:11:04.120 it's desperately uncomfortable.

01:11:05.540 It's not particularly pleasant

01:11:06.780 where you have to go.

01:11:09.040 These values

01:11:09.900 are incompatible

01:11:11.300 with our civilization

01:11:12.540 and they are.

01:11:14.460 They just are.

01:11:16.100 If you import

01:11:17.440 a culture,

01:11:18.160 people from a culture

01:11:19.080 who believe

01:11:20.140 that homosexuality 1.00

01:11:21.380 is a sin 0.93

01:11:21.960 and these people 1.00

01:11:23.000 should be executed, 1.00

01:11:24.360 I don't know 1.00

01:11:25.400 how you can have

01:11:26.480 that 0.51

01:11:27.540 and a gay pride parade.

01:11:30.160 I don't know

01:11:30.960 how you have

01:11:31.460 those two things together.

01:11:32.780 Well,

01:11:33.100 you don't.

01:11:34.140 And you can't.

01:11:35.800 And people don't

01:11:36.860 want to admit that.

01:11:38.040 I mean,

01:11:38.660 the gay pride parades

01:11:39.500 are not a massive

01:11:40.520 concern for me.

01:11:41.300 But there's some...

01:11:44.620 Okay,

01:11:44.740 but you know what I mean.

01:11:45.600 I know exactly

01:11:46.080 what you mean,

01:11:46.600 which is if,

01:11:47.740 like,

01:11:48.500 this is the irony,

01:11:49.800 right?

01:11:50.040 It's like,

01:11:50.920 the people that we're

01:11:51.920 talking about

01:11:52.520 would want Crystal Ball 0.98

01:11:53.760 never to show her face

01:11:55.040 in public

01:11:55.460 and never to speak.

01:11:58.300 That's what they want.

01:12:00.080 And yet she's acting

01:12:01.340 like we're the same.

01:12:02.980 We're just not.

01:12:04.480 We just don't.

01:12:05.500 We don't view the world

01:12:06.740 in the same way.

01:12:08.220 We don't.

01:12:08.580 And this comes back

01:12:09.840 to,

01:12:10.740 again,

01:12:11.860 my grandfather

01:12:12.680 was originally

01:12:13.320 a Lebanese heritage.

01:12:14.620 I don't think

01:12:15.820 people in the West

01:12:16.940 understand

01:12:17.800 how deep

01:12:18.820 anti-Semitism

01:12:19.760 runs through

01:12:20.960 the Middle East.

01:12:22.200 And by the way,

01:12:23.260 my grandfather

01:12:23.840 was a Lebanese Christian.

01:12:25.580 A Lebanese Christian.

01:12:26.900 But he was

01:12:27.820 anti-Semitic

01:12:28.780 and hated Israel.

01:12:30.240 Now,

01:12:30.520 if you think

01:12:31.140 that comes from

01:12:31.880 a Lebanese Christian,

01:12:33.880 can you imagine

01:12:34.580 what it comes from?

01:12:35.500 The depths of hatred

01:12:37.740 in other countries

01:12:39.580 with people

01:12:40.820 who are Islamists,

01:12:42.300 they will stop

01:12:43.360 at nothing

01:12:44.000 in order to see

01:12:45.500 Israel wiped off the map. 0.93

01:12:46.840 And you know

01:12:47.160 what's funny about this?

01:12:48.180 I mean,

01:12:48.400 this is the great irony

01:12:49.380 of this whole thing.

01:12:52.680 Muslims understand this.

01:12:54.240 Yeah.

01:12:55.280 Muslims know all this. 0.71

01:12:57.080 That's why

01:12:57.820 the UAE

01:12:58.900 and Saudi Arabia

01:13:00.000 and many,

01:13:01.000 many

01:13:01.220 former Soviet

01:13:02.600 Muslim countries

01:13:03.440 are doing everything

01:13:04.780 within their power

01:13:05.760 to crack down

01:13:06.560 on Islamism.

01:13:07.940 I mean,

01:13:08.140 the UAE

01:13:08.500 and Saudi Arabia

01:13:09.200 are working

01:13:10.080 incredibly hard

01:13:11.280 because they don't have

01:13:12.660 this political correctness 1.00

01:13:13.740 bullshit. 1.00

01:13:14.220 So they're like, 1.00

01:13:14.820 of course,

01:13:15.300 these are the extremists. 1.00

01:13:16.840 These are crazy people, 1.00

01:13:18.100 right? 1.00

01:13:18.580 They're crazy 1.00

01:13:19.240 religious ideologues 1.00

01:13:20.420 who want to take

01:13:20.980 a literal interpretation

01:13:22.060 of the Quran

01:13:22.500 and destroy 0.82

01:13:23.120 our entire society

01:13:24.140 and turn this

01:13:25.060 into a caliphate

01:13:25.900 because that's what

01:13:26.740 they see as

01:13:27.520 the Quran saying,

01:13:28.880 right?

01:13:29.980 And they know this,

01:13:31.120 so they fight it.

01:13:32.680 They resist it.

01:13:34.440 But Western people

01:13:36.380 are the ones

01:13:37.220 that are pretending

01:13:37.940 it's not.

01:13:38.320 It's amazing.

01:13:38.960 I follow all these

01:13:39.920 Muslim influencers

01:13:40.960 on Twitter

01:13:41.460 that I speak to

01:13:42.320 who are working

01:13:43.660 extremely hard

01:13:44.820 to get their societies

01:13:46.460 to actually,

01:13:48.260 I was going to use

01:13:48.900 the word progressive,

01:13:49.820 tainted by recent

01:13:51.040 political movements,

01:13:51.980 but like,

01:13:52.720 that are actually moving

01:13:53.820 towards a much more

01:13:55.360 sensible direction

01:13:57.340 in places like the UAE

01:13:59.740 and places like Saudi Arabia,

01:14:01.340 in places like Uzbekistan

01:14:02.560 and others,

01:14:03.180 right?

01:14:03.800 And they're not doing so

01:14:04.820 because they believe

01:14:05.820 in democracy.

01:14:06.500 They don't believe

01:14:07.440 in democracy.

01:14:08.640 These are authoritarian

01:14:09.440 countries,

01:14:10.280 but they're doing it

01:14:11.420 because they know,

01:14:12.940 they know that Islamism

01:14:14.920 is not compatible

01:14:15.900 with Muslim countries

01:14:17.140 ruled in a kind

01:14:18.600 of normal way

01:14:19.380 because it just doesn't work

01:14:20.920 because these people

01:14:21.660 want a theocratic,

01:14:23.160 fascist state

01:14:24.280 covering the entire

01:14:25.340 Middle East

01:14:25.780 and as much of the rest

01:14:26.740 of the world

01:14:27.060 as they possibly can

01:14:27.940 and they will stop

01:14:29.080 at nothing to achieve it.

01:14:30.100 That's not compatible

01:14:32.220 with anything.

01:14:33.040 It's not even compatible

01:14:33.820 with a Muslim country.

01:14:35.260 No.

01:14:35.480 That's why they're fighting it

01:14:36.420 and yet you have these people

01:14:37.800 pretending

01:14:38.440 that that's not the case.

01:14:40.900 And that's why,

01:14:41.980 another reason why they fight it

01:14:43.620 is because more Muslims 0.83

01:14:44.480 die at the hands 1.00

01:14:46.720 of Islamic fundamentalists 0.99

01:14:47.860 than anybody else.

01:14:48.660 Right, of course.

01:14:49.760 Because there is a civil war

01:14:51.000 happening within the Muslim world 1.00

01:14:52.360 between the extremists

01:14:53.880 and the rest.

01:14:54.640 the people who believe

01:14:56.500 in nation states,

01:14:57.860 you know,

01:14:58.080 authoritarially ruled

01:14:59.120 by monarchies mostly

01:15:00.060 but nonetheless,

01:15:01.280 right,

01:15:02.220 and the extremists.

01:15:03.360 You've got these two sides

01:15:04.460 and no one in the Muslim world 0.60

01:15:05.940 is pretending

01:15:06.640 that this isn't happening.

01:15:08.460 Yeah.

01:15:08.720 Because you have to have 0.98

01:15:09.540 no brain 0.96

01:15:10.180 to pretend it.

01:15:11.840 But if you have no knowledge

01:15:13.060 of this entire situation

01:15:14.280 you just go,

01:15:14.760 oh, it's the same

01:15:15.640 and blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:15:17.000 I'd push back on that.

01:15:18.260 I don't think it's because 0.98

01:15:19.060 they have no brain. 0.98

01:15:20.000 I think it's because 1.00

01:15:20.800 they have imbibed an ideology

01:15:22.240 and a worldview

01:15:23.020 which means that

01:15:24.460 they simply cannot understand

01:15:26.460 and see.

01:15:28.100 They are blind

01:15:28.840 to the nuances.

01:15:30.180 What's the difference

01:15:30.760 between that

01:15:31.160 and what I said?

01:15:33.600 Because I think it's worse.

01:15:37.380 I genuinely do.

01:15:39.240 I think it's worse

01:15:40.560 because if somebody

01:15:41.580 doesn't have the intellectual capacity

01:15:43.000 to understand something

01:15:44.120 I think that's forgivable.

01:15:45.660 Yeah, that's true.

01:15:46.540 Whereas I think

01:15:47.280 if someone is willingly blind

01:15:49.180 and doesn't want to

01:15:51.520 or ignores it

01:15:52.860 I think that's willful

01:15:54.400 and that's far worse.

01:15:56.540 Yeah, I think the truth is

01:15:58.280 though that myth

01:15:58.880 is breaking down very quickly

01:16:00.300 and I think

01:16:00.940 we're not going to be

01:16:01.500 we're not going to be able

01:16:02.780 to pretend that everyone

01:16:03.720 is the same for much longer

01:16:04.820 just because it doesn't work.

01:16:06.480 No.

01:16:07.000 It doesn't work in practice

01:16:08.100 and I think that's what

01:16:08.780 we're seeing in Britain.

01:16:09.640 I think that's what

01:16:10.100 we're seeing across Europe.

01:16:12.360 We're seeing it everywhere now.

01:16:14.420 People are,

01:16:15.400 you know,

01:16:15.920 I think it was again

01:16:17.500 a brilliant Thomas Sow line

01:16:19.280 which is you can ignore

01:16:20.220 reality.

01:16:21.120 you can't ignore

01:16:22.280 the consequences

01:16:22.960 of ignoring reality

01:16:23.980 and that's where we are.

01:16:25.660 That's exactly where we are

01:16:26.680 and I actually think

01:16:27.740 with some of the,

01:16:29.380 you know,

01:16:29.660 like I've had a couple

01:16:30.780 of gigs cancelled

01:16:31.620 and I've had people

01:16:32.800 really push back.

01:16:33.660 I've had people send me

01:16:34.420 actually quite

01:16:35.520 unpleasant messages

01:16:37.560 saying horrible things to me

01:16:39.980 but I think

01:16:41.300 now what this conversation

01:16:43.040 has actually showed me

01:16:44.120 is that

01:16:45.300 I think the reason

01:16:46.800 the pushback

01:16:47.460 is so vehement

01:16:48.240 is because deep down

01:16:49.840 that they know it.

01:16:51.480 You wouldn't get this angry

01:16:53.260 if you didn't realise

01:16:54.840 that something was amiss

01:16:56.260 with your line of argument.

01:16:57.880 You wouldn't get this furious,

01:16:59.780 you wouldn't get this censorious

01:17:01.140 if you didn't

01:17:02.380 at some

01:17:03.060 deep emotional level

01:17:05.320 understand

01:17:06.000 that your argument

01:17:07.300 was deeply flawed

01:17:08.380 and it was being exposed

01:17:10.120 day in and day out.

01:17:11.220 you can't keep

01:17:13.040 going down this path

01:17:14.220 and you can't keep

01:17:15.840 advocating these positions

01:17:17.140 without being aware

01:17:18.320 that actually

01:17:19.600 what is really going on

01:17:21.300 is you effectively

01:17:22.300 signing

01:17:22.780 your own civilisation's

01:17:24.260 death warrant

01:17:24.680 which is what I think

01:17:25.720 we're going to be saying.

01:17:28.700 That was a nice

01:17:29.500 positive point

01:17:30.140 to end on, mate.

01:17:31.240 It is what it is.

01:17:33.420 I was arrested

01:17:34.420 for holding

01:17:35.460 one of the most

01:17:36.080 basic fundamental truths

01:17:37.640 that we've known forever.

01:17:38.780 children are not born

01:17:40.440 in the wrong body.

01:17:41.940 Their immediate instinct

01:17:43.040 was to call us fascists

01:17:44.540 and Chris asked

01:17:45.320 well what about

01:17:45.780 our free speech

01:17:46.440 we have a right

01:17:46.920 to freedom of speech

01:17:47.500 here, don't we?

01:17:48.500 And the police said

01:17:49.040 it doesn't work

01:17:49.500 like that here.

01:17:50.340 And we were arrested

01:17:51.020 strip searched

01:17:52.500 put in cells

01:17:54.720 for a few hours

01:17:55.520 and then we were

01:17:55.860 Why were you strip searched?

01:17:57.680 If I get criminal charges

01:17:58.760 it will change my life

01:18:00.520 quite substantially

01:18:01.540 it's quite a high cost

01:18:02.500 for free speech.

01:18:03.820 It's not good.

01:18:04.680 It's not.

01:18:05.460 It's not good at all.

01:18:08.780 It's not.

01:18:10.260 It's not.

01:18:11.840 It's not.

01:18:12.700 It's not.

01:18:13.340 It's not.

01:18:17.620 It's not.

01:18:24.460 It's not.

01:18:24.880 It's not.

TRIGGERnometry - August 29, 2025

Responding to Netanyahu Interview Critics

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript