TRIGGERnometry - August 29, 2025


Responding to Netanyahu Interview Critics


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 18 minutes

Words per minute

174.58719

Word count

13,692

Sentence count

969

Harmful content

Misogyny

7

sentences flagged

Toxicity

110

sentences flagged

Hate speech

75

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

It's been a week since our controversial interview with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and we're here to talk about it. We're joined by comedian Jordan Peterson to discuss the reaction to the interview, and whether or not it was actually a good or bad thing.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.720 They positioned our interview, which they haven't watched.
00:00:04.060 Yeah, because that's the best way to do research, mate, I think.
00:00:07.340 How are you called crystal ball and you have no knowledge or insight?
00:00:10.760 How did that happen?
00:00:12.240 The question no one ever asked is,
00:00:13.980 why is it that so many civilians are being killed in Gaza
00:00:16.540 and not that many civilians are being killed in Ukraine?
00:00:19.440 Why is it?
00:00:20.880 Did you hear what she just...
00:00:22.100 Did you hear what she just said?
00:00:24.420 Yeah, yeah.
00:00:25.560 When you have some sort of peace plan,
00:00:27.660 then you can come together like we did with Germany and Japan.
00:00:35.740 You dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan and you flattened Germany 0.99
00:00:40.180 and now you're presenting that as the way to approach Gaza
00:00:44.620 where you're criticizing Netanyahu for what he's doing.
00:00:47.800 I went in the comments expecting people to obviously go, 1.00
00:00:50.080 this is so stupid. 1.00
00:00:51.100 They'll all agree with her. 1.00
00:00:52.720 Help me.
00:00:54.960 Help me.
00:00:57.660 Relax, relax.
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00:01:37.080 Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything.
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00:01:58.260 All right, Francis.
00:02:01.620 So, it's been about a week since our interview with Prime Minister Netanyahu.
00:02:06.020 It's fair to say that got a little bit of a response online.
00:02:09.660 Yep, yep.
00:02:10.640 It did.
00:02:11.680 It did.
00:02:12.140 God, it was so funny, the response that it got.
00:02:15.480 To the point where I was like,
00:02:17.140 did you actually watch or listen to the interview? 1.00
00:02:20.920 Well, you know, a lot of online stuff is always morons 0.96
00:02:24.860 who are just responding to the fact that you've interviewed someone without watching it. 0.99
00:02:28.260 Which is fine.
00:02:29.320 What surprised me was there were actually people who like purport to be serious journalists
00:02:34.260 who acted in that same way.
00:02:36.920 We'll talk about breaking points in particular because they did a super,
00:02:40.600 I don't want to use the word,
00:02:42.680 but I can't think of another better word to describe,
00:02:45.260 a super retarded video about that interview, 0.86
00:02:47.980 which we'll talk about in a minute.
00:02:50.000 But actually, you know what?
00:02:51.320 I have to say,
00:02:52.880 I think it's partly because you are still connected with the comedy industry,
00:02:57.000 which I've forgotten all about,
00:02:58.780 that you've had a lot of pushback.
00:03:00.940 Most of the messages I've got have been incredibly supportive and positive.
00:03:04.220 Yeah.
00:03:04.560 I mean, I had one former friend message me and tell me that I'd made a forced pact.
00:03:10.200 A what?
00:03:11.100 A forced pact.
00:03:11.900 I was like, it's a forced impact, you know?
00:03:14.400 But I've had a lot of people who seem to think that because we interviewed Netanyahu,
00:03:20.620 that means we've given a PR opportunity to Benjamin Netanyahu.
00:03:25.360 Whereas if Channel 4 interviewed him, that would be deemed to be acceptable.
00:03:29.940 It's so interesting how people now look at the new media space
00:03:33.540 and think that if you platform someone to quote them,
00:03:37.140 that automatically means that you agree with them.
00:03:39.920 Whereas if old media or legacy media interview someone
00:03:43.660 and notice the difference I'm using in words,
00:03:46.200 interview as opposed to platform, that it seemed to be acceptable.
00:03:49.800 It's so interesting the way that we now look at both old and legacy
00:03:54.520 and new media and seem to hold it to very, very different standards.
00:03:59.720 I will say, though, I have to agree with that perspective quite a bit
00:04:04.300 for reasons that we can get into, which I think is that historically speaking,
00:04:09.900 in recent years at least, legacy media became entirely adversarial.
00:04:16.660 So if they had someone on who was a politician or in charge of a company
00:04:23.080 or Jordan Peterson with Kathy Newman, right,
00:04:26.720 they would do this fake confrontational nonsense
00:04:30.740 where they essentially would only talk as if this person 1.00
00:04:34.980 was some kind of combination of like a hypocrite and a pedophile 0.99
00:04:38.060 and they would treat them like that, right? 0.99
00:04:41.640 And then the response to that in the new media space,
00:04:44.440 I've just written an article about this on my Substack, actually,
00:04:46.820 which we'll put out as a monologue here as well.
00:04:50.080 Then the response from the new media was effectively,
00:04:53.080 if you look at almost every podcast that's out there,
00:04:58.060 you actually very rarely see people disagreeing.
00:05:01.280 It's very, very rare.
00:05:02.840 And so in the new media space, outside of one or two channels,
00:05:06.160 and I would include ours in that as well,
00:05:07.800 because we frequently have people on with whom we disagree
00:05:10.040 and we explore those disagreements in a respectful way.
00:05:13.840 Actually, most of the time, if someone has someone on,
00:05:17.800 it's only because they agree.
00:05:19.980 And I wouldn't just hold a podcaster responsible for that.
00:05:23.140 For example, like Joe Rogan, right?
00:05:25.100 He had Trump and Vance on before the last election,
00:05:27.300 but he did also want to have Kamala on.
00:05:29.740 And it was because she didn't make that happen
00:05:31.880 that it didn't happen.
00:05:33.040 So it's a combination of two things.
00:05:35.020 You and I discussed in the last conversation we had about this,
00:05:38.680 that we try very hard to get people
00:05:40.720 from a different perspective to ours on the show,
00:05:42.640 but very often they don't want to come on.
00:05:44.660 A, because they don't want to be seen
00:05:46.520 to align themselves with us,
00:05:48.400 but B, also because they're afraid of the disagreement
00:05:50.980 and the challenge, right?
00:05:52.660 So I do understand why instinctively people take that perspective,
00:05:56.480 because in the new media,
00:05:58.160 it generally is the case that if you have someone on your show,
00:06:01.220 it is because you agree with them.
00:06:03.020 Absolutely.
00:06:03.840 So again, that's fair.
00:06:05.660 But when people were criticizing us about the BB interview,
00:06:09.940 and the thing that I didn't understand is,
00:06:12.200 they would say,
00:06:13.240 oh, you know, you've had Tommy Robinson on,
00:06:15.200 you've had Nigel Farage on,
00:06:16.360 you go, yeah, but we've had Stephen Fry,
00:06:19.580 we had Deborah Francis White from the Guilty Feminist podcast.
00:06:22.900 Mark Steele.
00:06:23.580 Mark Steele.
00:06:24.380 We, and not only that,
00:06:26.800 we go out of our way,
00:06:28.620 75%, and I mentioned it before,
00:06:31.180 of our bookers' energy
00:06:32.340 goes into getting left-wing guests.
00:06:34.700 We've had Breonna Wu,
00:06:35.880 a trans woman who works for the Democrat Party in America.
00:06:39.760 So you go, look,
00:06:42.180 this is quite clearly not what we do.
00:06:44.920 The modus operandi of the show
00:06:46.440 has never been to get people on
00:06:49.060 that we agree with
00:06:49.940 so that we can nod our heads.
00:06:51.700 Number one,
00:06:52.220 because it's not who we are as people.
00:06:53.860 But number two,
00:06:54.980 it's on a purely practical level,
00:06:57.140 I don't think that business model
00:06:58.700 is going to be working in the long term.
00:07:01.160 It works for some people,
00:07:02.040 but I don't think it's about the business model.
00:07:03.880 I just don't think we find that very interesting.
00:07:05.840 Yeah.
00:07:05.960 And that's always been the approach.
00:07:07.820 You know what I think sums the distinction best for me?
00:07:12.440 We get, obviously, lots of pushback
00:07:14.680 about having people like Tommy Robinson on
00:07:17.040 or others or whatever.
00:07:19.340 We had a man called Roger Hallam on our show,
00:07:22.420 who is the co-founder of Extinction Rebellion,
00:07:25.100 who is currently in prison,
00:07:27.280 not just for committing crimes,
00:07:28.720 but I think he's in prison
00:07:30.000 for orchestrating the commission of crimes by other people.
00:07:33.740 Terrorism, I think it is.
00:07:34.820 I don't think it's terrorism.
00:07:36.100 It might be.
00:07:36.720 Well, we should probably look it up.
00:07:38.060 Yeah.
00:07:38.260 We should probably look it up.
00:07:40.340 Let's just take that back and say,
00:07:41.820 we don't know exactly,
00:07:42.940 but the point is,
00:07:43.760 he is in prison
00:07:44.580 for what he would call climate activism
00:07:48.560 that was so destructive,
00:07:50.500 he was sent to prison for many years,
00:07:52.240 along with several other people.
00:07:53.600 Yeah.
00:07:53.760 Right?
00:07:54.360 Have you ever had anyone come up to you
00:07:55.920 and go,
00:07:56.280 you platform extremists,
00:07:57.980 and you go,
00:07:58.440 which ones?
00:07:58.920 And they go,
00:07:59.320 Roger Hallam.
00:08:00.520 No.
00:08:00.860 No.
00:08:01.080 So why is it
00:08:02.900 that if you get someone on
00:08:04.320 who has the wrong opinion,
00:08:06.360 that's platforming extremism.
00:08:10.760 But if you get someone
00:08:11.660 who is literally in jail right now,
00:08:13.860 no one cares.
00:08:15.960 No.
00:08:17.040 And you go,
00:08:17.820 that's interesting.
00:08:19.240 There is something going on there.
00:08:21.640 Of course.
00:08:22.300 Because take this,
00:08:23.360 let's say,
00:08:24.200 and this is a dream guest for us,
00:08:25.760 Tony Blair agrees to come on the show.
00:08:27.780 And I would love Tony to come on.
00:08:29.660 And Tony,
00:08:30.400 I know you're a massive fan of Trigg, mate.
00:08:32.000 You're always welcome.
00:08:33.240 But let's say we get Tony Blair on.
00:08:35.200 We book him in.
00:08:36.780 I bet he wouldn't even get
00:08:38.980 one quarter,
00:08:40.140 one quarter of the pushback
00:08:42.260 or the condemnation
00:08:44.180 that Tommy Robinson would get,
00:08:46.760 even though Blair
00:08:48.340 was one of the architects
00:08:49.520 of the Iraq war,
00:08:50.680 which resulted in the deaths
00:08:52.320 of a million people.
00:08:54.340 I bet we wouldn't.
00:08:55.600 I would actually find it
00:08:56.820 highly interesting.
00:08:58.460 We would get some pushback.
00:08:59.860 I'm sure of that.
00:09:01.140 But I bet we wouldn't get
00:09:02.800 even a quarter of the pushback
00:09:04.200 that we had for Tommy.
00:09:05.720 It's so interesting to me.
00:09:07.540 And it just shows you
00:09:08.460 how much of this is just,
00:09:10.020 I don't like this person.
00:09:11.580 I like this person.
00:09:12.600 And that's what it's about.
00:09:13.720 And also there's a status thing as well.
00:09:15.500 High status, low status.
00:09:16.680 Tommy Robinson is considered low status.
00:09:18.500 And Tony Blair is considered high status.
00:09:20.600 It's not about the death count.
00:09:22.380 As far as I know,
00:09:22.940 Tony Robinson has never killed anyone, right?
00:09:25.000 Tony Blair, with his decisions,
00:09:26.440 did kill lots of people.
00:09:27.880 But that's fine.
00:09:29.600 Absolutely.
00:09:30.320 And it's not even,
00:09:31.420 it's what it's,
00:09:33.040 going through the trigonometry journey
00:09:35.140 has actually exposed me
00:09:36.460 one key thing.
00:09:37.800 Is that the majority of people,
00:09:39.580 and I include myself in this,
00:09:40.760 by the way,
00:09:41.300 I was guilty of this.
00:09:43.400 Most people think emotion.
00:09:44.900 Most people don't think logically
00:09:46.620 or rationally.
00:09:47.300 Most people don't actually investigate
00:09:49.520 what it is that they think
00:09:50.980 and why that they think it.
00:09:52.540 And actually,
00:09:53.120 do they have any basis
00:09:54.380 for their thoughts
00:09:55.480 and their arguments?
00:09:56.520 Are they actually based
00:09:57.620 on some kind of objective truth?
00:09:59.700 Do they follow a logical pattern?
00:10:01.560 Or are they just simply
00:10:02.840 emotional vomiting?
00:10:04.920 And what these interviews expose
00:10:07.640 with Tommy
00:10:08.260 and then with Benjamin Netanyahu
00:10:10.120 is most people don't.
00:10:12.460 Like, they'll go to us
00:10:13.460 when we talk about
00:10:14.580 Benjamin Netanyahu.
00:10:15.520 Oh, you didn't talk
00:10:16.720 about genocide.
00:10:17.960 You got his response
00:10:19.740 on genocide
00:10:20.440 in that interview
00:10:21.800 where he said,
00:10:22.540 if we wanted to commit genocide,
00:10:24.000 we would do it
00:10:24.800 in an afternoon.
00:10:26.280 What more
00:10:27.140 do you want us to say?
00:10:28.960 Well, they don't want us
00:10:29.880 to say anything.
00:10:30.620 What they want us
00:10:31.520 is to project
00:10:32.700 their worldview
00:10:33.480 onto him
00:10:34.420 and do
00:10:36.300 a Kathy Newman
00:10:37.560 style interview
00:10:39.260 in this one instance.
00:10:40.420 Normally,
00:10:40.700 they don't like Kathy Newman.
00:10:41.760 But in this one instance,
00:10:42.780 they would like us
00:10:43.640 to do that
00:10:44.080 because they really
00:10:44.980 don't like him
00:10:45.880 and they hold him
00:10:46.700 responsible for what's
00:10:47.680 happening in Gaza
00:10:48.400 and whatever.
00:10:49.100 By the way,
00:10:49.700 we should just say,
00:10:50.500 and I think this is
00:10:51.140 an objective statement
00:10:52.100 as far as I'm aware,
00:10:53.860 we did the most challenging
00:10:55.860 interview with Benjamin Netanyahu
00:10:57.460 since the war started
00:10:59.500 of anyone.
00:11:01.360 Show me an interview
00:11:02.300 where he's actually challenged
00:11:03.860 and asked probing questions
00:11:05.180 prior to ours
00:11:06.380 that's been done.
00:11:07.480 I haven't seen one.
00:11:08.540 Have you?
00:11:08.980 No.
00:11:09.180 So this is one
00:11:11.440 of the funniest things
00:11:12.280 that I found,
00:11:12.840 including, by the way,
00:11:13.760 from the kind of
00:11:14.740 online far right
00:11:15.740 as well,
00:11:17.060 which is basically like,
00:11:19.040 oh, you've got this guy
00:11:20.100 on his...
00:11:20.680 Okay,
00:11:22.000 these are the same people
00:11:23.460 that were gargling 0.99
00:11:25.440 Tucker Carlson's balls 1.00
00:11:26.580 when he interviewed 0.99
00:11:27.320 Vladimir Putin
00:11:28.140 while gargling 0.99
00:11:29.560 Vladimir Putin's balls. 1.00
00:11:31.420 See, 0.99
00:11:31.940 you remember
00:11:32.360 we had a conversation
00:11:33.420 on our show
00:11:34.420 about Tucker Carlson
00:11:36.000 interviewing Vladimir Putin
00:11:37.220 in which neither of us
00:11:40.120 said he should not
00:11:41.080 speak to Vladimir Putin.
00:11:42.380 No.
00:11:42.700 What we said is
00:11:43.540 if you're going to
00:11:44.640 interview a world leader
00:11:45.620 who's currently in charge
00:11:46.740 of a war,
00:11:48.000 you might want to ask him
00:11:49.080 some probing questions,
00:11:50.420 which Tucker did not
00:11:51.420 do remotely,
00:11:52.500 right?
00:11:53.640 The same with when he
00:11:54.540 interviewed...
00:11:55.320 All these other people,
00:11:56.480 world leaders that he's
00:11:57.220 interviewed,
00:11:57.900 there's never any
00:11:58.560 pushback at all,
00:11:59.560 right?
00:12:00.000 And that is
00:12:00.740 illegitimate criticism.
00:12:02.480 What we did is...
00:12:03.980 There used to be a word
00:12:04.920 for this
00:12:05.360 that's now
00:12:06.300 somewhat debased
00:12:07.280 by the actions
00:12:07.860 of the people
00:12:08.380 who apply that word
00:12:09.580 to themselves.
00:12:10.020 It's called journalism.
00:12:11.240 That's what we did.
00:12:13.160 Of course.
00:12:14.060 Of course,
00:12:14.500 that's what we did.
00:12:15.140 And going through it,
00:12:16.800 it was just...
00:12:17.800 And the other thing
00:12:18.440 that people don't seem
00:12:19.500 to realize is
00:12:20.500 we had half an hour.
00:12:22.640 You are not going
00:12:23.540 to cover
00:12:24.040 every single subject
00:12:25.980 in the depth
00:12:27.500 that you would like
00:12:28.700 because
00:12:29.620 you only have
00:12:30.980 half an hour.
00:12:32.260 And to the people going,
00:12:33.220 oh, well,
00:12:33.480 why didn't you do
00:12:34.020 a Rogan-style interview?
00:12:35.440 We would have loved
00:12:36.000 to have done
00:12:36.380 a Rogan-style interview,
00:12:37.620 but you get the time
00:12:38.940 that you're allotted.
00:12:39.880 Kind of a busy guy.
00:12:40.800 He's a busy guy.
00:12:41.940 So you get the time
00:12:42.880 that you're allotted
00:12:43.640 and then
00:12:44.640 as journalists
00:12:46.360 or podcasters
00:12:47.440 or whatever you want
00:12:48.040 to call us,
00:12:49.020 it is our job
00:12:50.740 to then go,
00:12:51.480 how can we maximize
00:12:52.520 the time?
00:12:53.380 What can we talk
00:12:54.440 about in that time
00:12:55.600 to expose
00:12:56.920 not only
00:12:58.160 who the man is,
00:12:59.320 but what he thinks
00:13:00.580 and how he thinks.
00:13:01.800 And that is
00:13:02.880 what I'm really proud
00:13:04.060 of about that interview
00:13:05.000 because you come away
00:13:06.240 from that interview
00:13:07.020 knowing a lot more
00:13:08.860 about Benjamin Netanyahu
00:13:10.220 than you did
00:13:11.040 before you listened.
00:13:12.720 And I think
00:13:13.340 that is the job
00:13:14.220 to expose,
00:13:15.140 not to expose
00:13:16.060 in the Kathy Newman sense
00:13:17.280 that someone's a fascist
00:13:18.380 or, you know, 0.63
00:13:19.360 a hateful person
00:13:20.640 or bigoted person.
00:13:21.980 No.
00:13:22.960 You expose
00:13:24.180 who that person
00:13:25.260 is in front of you.
00:13:26.400 That is your job
00:13:27.400 as an interviewer
00:13:28.140 and then it is
00:13:28.900 the audience's job
00:13:30.060 to make their own mind up.
00:13:32.120 And it is really
00:13:33.000 quite that simple.
00:13:34.340 And anything else,
00:13:35.760 if you want us
00:13:36.600 to sit there
00:13:37.180 and go,
00:13:37.540 well, you know,
00:13:38.440 harangue someone consistently.
00:13:40.120 And by the way,
00:13:40.600 we did push back
00:13:41.400 and we pushed back
00:13:42.340 more than I've ever seen
00:13:44.300 on anybody else.
00:13:45.280 But if you think
00:13:46.720 that that is journalism
00:13:47.880 to harangue someone,
00:13:49.060 then I'm very sorry,
00:13:50.000 that is not journalism.
00:13:51.240 That is virtue signaling
00:13:52.540 to the crowd.
00:13:53.200 But like you said,
00:13:54.880 most people
00:13:55.720 don't want journalism.
00:13:57.840 They want their worldview
00:13:59.160 to be pushed
00:14:00.960 by all means necessary.
00:14:03.320 And you talked about
00:14:04.920 people having
00:14:05.560 an emotional reaction
00:14:06.540 to things
00:14:07.020 instead of thinking logically.
00:14:08.960 I just think
00:14:09.500 I have not seen,
00:14:12.040 I was going to say,
00:14:13.880 I'm just going to
00:14:15.340 check in my mind
00:14:16.280 before I say this out loud.
00:14:18.140 I think Israel 0.98
00:14:19.060 in recent years
00:14:20.080 is the issue
00:14:22.380 on which that's true
00:14:23.960 to the greatest extent.
00:14:25.660 I have not seen people
00:14:27.040 be otherwise sensible people
00:14:28.940 be so deranged
00:14:29.760 about any other issue.
00:14:31.920 I was thinking
00:14:32.800 maybe BLM,
00:14:33.680 but no,
00:14:34.020 Israel more than BLM. 0.77
00:14:35.000 Israel more than BLM. 0.77
00:14:36.160 Yeah.
00:14:36.460 Because the sorts of things
00:14:37.820 that otherwise
00:14:38.620 very sensible people
00:14:39.960 say,
00:14:41.880 like,
00:14:42.380 in the time
00:14:43.700 since our interview
00:14:44.840 with Netanyahu
00:14:45.340 has come out,
00:14:46.260 the IDF
00:14:47.240 accidentally
00:14:48.800 struck a hospital.
00:14:50.700 Twice, yeah.
00:14:51.380 Twice.
00:14:51.680 It sounds funny,
00:14:54.560 accidentally struck
00:14:55.340 a hospital twice,
00:14:56.100 but we don't know
00:14:57.120 exactly what's happened.
00:14:58.000 There might be
00:14:58.400 a targeting issue.
00:14:59.720 And I see people online,
00:15:01.200 I mean,
00:15:01.380 Pierce is a good example,
00:15:02.480 like quote tweeting
00:15:03.340 Benjamin Netanyahu
00:15:04.300 saying this was a terrible
00:15:05.420 mishap or something like that,
00:15:07.180 going,
00:15:07.900 no,
00:15:08.120 this was deliberate.
00:15:09.520 What?
00:15:10.600 How do you know? 1.00
00:15:12.320 How the fuck do you know? 0.99
00:15:14.800 I mean, 0.99
00:15:15.240 I remember growing up
00:15:16.800 watching Americans
00:15:18.620 hitting a hospital.
00:15:20.040 I remember when there was
00:15:21.300 a war in Yugoslavia,
00:15:23.240 Serbia,
00:15:23.580 wherever it was,
00:15:24.340 right?
00:15:24.520 They hit a hospital then.
00:15:26.040 It was during the war
00:15:27.140 in Iraq and Afghanistan,
00:15:28.520 the American armed forces
00:15:29.760 were hitting hospitals
00:15:30.760 left,
00:15:31.100 right and center.
00:15:32.060 I mean,
00:15:32.400 to the point where,
00:15:33.360 you know,
00:15:33.880 every hack comedian
00:15:35.360 had a joke about,
00:15:36.900 you know,
00:15:37.340 a wedding in Pakistan.
00:15:38.540 Do you remember?
00:15:38.960 Yes.
00:15:39.260 Drone strike,
00:15:39.860 wedding pact.
00:15:40.300 It was like a thing
00:15:41.240 that you'd hear
00:15:41.700 every gig for a period of time.
00:15:44.320 And because in war,
00:15:45.900 these things do tend to happen
00:15:47.340 and it's tragic that they do
00:15:48.840 and sometimes mistakes happen
00:15:50.120 or sometimes we don't know.
00:15:51.840 I mean,
00:15:52.040 I have heard reports
00:15:52.880 that at this hospital
00:15:53.700 there were militants
00:15:54.560 who were hiding
00:15:55.120 and using it as a staging base,
00:15:56.700 which is why,
00:15:57.380 anyway,
00:15:57.840 we don't know what happened.
00:15:59.420 But it's like the people
00:16:01.260 who are pro-Israel
00:16:02.520 immediately go,
00:16:03.140 no,
00:16:03.340 this is what happened.
00:16:04.100 And the people who are anti-Israel
00:16:05.080 go,
00:16:05.300 no,
00:16:05.480 this is what happened.
00:16:06.400 And we don't know.
00:16:07.980 We don't know.
00:16:09.780 And because everyone
00:16:11.120 is in a rush
00:16:11.900 to give their take on it,
00:16:14.220 logic and factual information
00:16:16.180 just goes completely
00:16:17.000 out of the window.
00:16:17.560 Of course,
00:16:18.560 because what we want
00:16:19.700 in life
00:16:20.280 and what we push back on
00:16:22.240 so much in the show,
00:16:23.860 and I think it's one of the
00:16:24.760 central themes of the show,
00:16:26.000 is black and white thinking.
00:16:27.480 When the reality is,
00:16:29.280 unfortunately,
00:16:30.080 We don't like autistic people. 1.00
00:16:32.620 Unfortunately,
00:16:33.420 that's about 80%
00:16:34.200 of our fan base
00:16:34.880 down the drain, mate.
00:16:35.760 No,
00:16:35.980 but unfortunately in life,
00:16:38.100 it's not black and white.
00:16:40.220 It's nuanced.
00:16:41.280 It's nuanced.
00:16:42.020 And things happen
00:16:43.360 and mistakes are made
00:16:44.600 and tragic events occur.
00:16:48.320 It's complicated.
00:16:49.800 And people don't want that.
00:16:51.380 They don't want to accept that
00:16:52.800 because what that means,
00:16:54.020 if life is nuanced,
00:16:55.400 it means that you have to think
00:16:56.640 deeply about the issues.
00:16:57.860 It means that you actually
00:16:59.080 have to investigate them
00:17:00.240 for yourselves,
00:17:01.420 weigh up one argument,
00:17:03.140 another argument,
00:17:04.220 investigate the merits
00:17:05.500 of argument A,
00:17:06.540 investigate the merits
00:17:07.340 of argument B,
00:17:08.120 see where they have strengths,
00:17:11.300 see what their weaknesses are,
00:17:12.900 and then come to your own
00:17:14.540 opinion and conclusion.
00:17:16.140 And the danger with that is,
00:17:17.540 is number one,
00:17:18.700 you have to think for yourself,
00:17:19.900 which is always dangerous.
00:17:21.140 If you look at history,
00:17:22.540 people who think they're
00:17:23.220 for themselves
00:17:24.180 never tends to end well.
00:17:26.280 And number two,
00:17:27.360 what it also does
00:17:28.520 is it alienates you
00:17:30.240 from people in argument A
00:17:31.840 and people in argument B.
00:17:33.160 And a large part of the reason
00:17:35.900 that people go into
00:17:37.000 these two camps
00:17:37.840 is we are fundamentally
00:17:39.140 tribal by nature.
00:17:40.720 And the moment you start
00:17:42.380 to think to yourself,
00:17:43.600 the reason that it's dangerous
00:17:44.900 is because you're going,
00:17:46.100 I reject the tribes, 1.00
00:17:47.420 I'm going to be an individual.
00:17:48.960 And from an evolutionary
00:17:49.880 biological point of view,
00:17:51.440 that is a very dangerous
00:17:52.660 place to put yourself.
00:17:53.620 Well, it's death.
00:17:54.640 Yeah.
00:17:54.780 If you are ostracized
00:17:55.940 from your village,
00:17:56.760 that's death.
00:17:58.080 And it's not just death,
00:17:59.540 you know,
00:17:59.740 dying fighting for your tribe
00:18:01.560 in a war
00:18:02.080 is a lot more satisfying
00:18:03.520 than being cast out
00:18:04.460 into the desert
00:18:05.100 and starving to death.
00:18:06.500 Yeah.
00:18:06.800 Right.
00:18:07.020 So that ostracism
00:18:09.040 that people fear
00:18:09.960 evolutionarily
00:18:11.960 is terrifying to people.
00:18:14.060 It's,
00:18:15.020 I've often thought that,
00:18:16.660 you know,
00:18:17.200 the overwhelming majority
00:18:18.520 of people have some sort
00:18:19.820 of fear of public speaking.
00:18:21.360 I actually had a fear
00:18:22.280 of public speaking
00:18:22.920 at one point.
00:18:23.560 I think it's very,
00:18:24.600 I think we are hardwired
00:18:25.840 to be fearful
00:18:27.140 of that situation
00:18:28.320 because if you think
00:18:29.620 about it,
00:18:30.360 in the ancestral environment,
00:18:32.680 you're living in your village,
00:18:33.720 150 people or so,
00:18:35.760 if you find yourself
00:18:36.720 in a position
00:18:37.420 where you are
00:18:38.680 in front of people
00:18:39.700 and they're staring
00:18:41.140 at you silently,
00:18:43.360 that would not have been
00:18:44.260 a good circumstance
00:18:45.100 as 99% of the time.
00:18:47.140 So,
00:18:48.060 that is a barrier
00:18:49.440 that many,
00:18:50.020 many people have
00:18:50.620 to overcome.
00:18:51.500 And people think,
00:18:52.160 oh,
00:18:52.260 it's because you got sent
00:18:53.180 up to the blackboard
00:18:53.980 at school.
00:18:54.340 No,
00:18:54.980 no,
00:18:55.280 no.
00:18:55.440 It's hardwired into you.
00:18:56.760 So,
00:18:56.860 that fear of ostracism
00:18:57.860 is part of it.
00:18:58.900 But I think
00:18:59.500 with the war in Gaza,
00:19:00.620 we're also facing
00:19:01.620 something else entirely,
00:19:03.160 which is the visual medium,
00:19:05.860 the visual channel
00:19:06.740 in human brains
00:19:07.880 is so powerful.
00:19:10.160 It's so much more powerful
00:19:11.740 than anything else.
00:19:13.040 It is overwhelmingly powerful.
00:19:15.100 And when you see images
00:19:16.300 of true horror,
00:19:17.480 which you will see
00:19:18.340 in every conflict zone,
00:19:20.760 it completely overwhelms
00:19:22.360 your logical reasoning
00:19:23.620 and faculties
00:19:24.420 by necessity.
00:19:26.700 It's just how it is.
00:19:28.120 And I think
00:19:28.500 with one of the reasons
00:19:29.360 that you see this
00:19:30.240 with Gaza
00:19:30.700 is people are just 1.00
00:19:31.940 seeing horrific shit 0.99
00:19:32.920 day in, 1.00
00:19:33.400 day out.
00:19:33.800 And it shuts down
00:19:35.020 their ability
00:19:35.480 to think critically.
00:19:36.280 I'll give you one example,
00:19:37.560 which I just think
00:19:38.320 sums it up.
00:19:39.300 There's a meme
00:19:39.840 that I keep seeing
00:19:40.980 popping up.
00:19:41.620 And this is in my feed,
00:19:42.840 so you know
00:19:43.320 it's doing well elsewhere,
00:19:45.300 right?
00:19:45.920 Which is,
00:19:46.980 X number of children
00:19:48.560 have been killed
00:19:49.220 in Ukraine
00:19:49.780 and, you know,
00:19:51.580 a hundred times more,
00:19:52.680 however many more
00:19:53.380 children killed in Gaza.
00:19:55.360 That's the difference
00:19:56.880 between war and genocide.
00:19:58.840 Right?
00:19:59.300 Okay.
00:20:00.700 Now,
00:20:01.320 if you know anything
00:20:02.040 about these two conflicts,
00:20:03.840 you go, 1.00
00:20:04.480 that is the most stupid thing 1.00
00:20:06.040 that anyone's ever said. 1.00
00:20:07.220 Because what they're trying
00:20:08.280 to say is,
00:20:09.480 look,
00:20:09.700 Israel is committing genocide, 0.99
00:20:11.500 Russia, 0.91
00:20:12.040 even though it's bad
00:20:12.800 and wrong to invade,
00:20:13.700 is not,
00:20:14.080 right?
00:20:15.160 Why is it?
00:20:16.460 But the question
00:20:17.040 no one ever asked is,
00:20:18.200 why is it
00:20:18.920 that so many civilians
00:20:19.900 are being killed in Gaza
00:20:20.900 and not that many civilians
00:20:22.480 are being killed in Ukraine?
00:20:23.780 Why is it?
00:20:24.740 Well,
00:20:24.980 I know because I have family
00:20:26.220 in Ukraine.
00:20:27.260 And you know what they do
00:20:28.300 when the air raid sirens
00:20:30.860 go off?
00:20:32.720 They go down
00:20:33.800 into the tube
00:20:34.720 in Kiev.
00:20:35.860 They go down
00:20:36.780 into the tunnels,
00:20:37.800 which the government
00:20:38.680 has made available
00:20:39.580 for them
00:20:40.020 and encouraged them
00:20:40.880 to use.
00:20:42.120 In other words,
00:20:43.940 Ukraine
00:20:44.460 has done everything
00:20:45.460 possible
00:20:46.020 to make use
00:20:47.560 of all the facilities
00:20:48.780 it has
00:20:49.380 to allow the civilians
00:20:51.000 to be safe
00:20:51.880 from Russian attacks.
00:20:54.020 But in Gaza,
00:20:55.300 they have a tunnel network
00:20:56.740 that is bigger
00:20:57.540 than the London tube
00:20:58.720 and not one civilian
00:21:00.420 has been allowed in.
00:21:02.000 The point being,
00:21:03.160 the reason that civilians
00:21:04.400 are dying in Gaza
00:21:05.560 is that their government,
00:21:07.260 Hamas, 1.00
00:21:07.800 wants them to be killed 1.00
00:21:09.200 and is doing 1.00
00:21:10.540 everything possible
00:21:11.540 to prevent them
00:21:12.820 from surviving.
00:21:13.920 It's not using
00:21:15.200 the facilities it has
00:21:16.580 to save them.
00:21:17.800 it's deliberately
00:21:20.200 putting them
00:21:20.980 in harm's way.
00:21:21.980 That's why it's happening.
00:21:23.560 But if all you see
00:21:24.720 are these horrific images
00:21:25.820 of war
00:21:26.320 and you don't think
00:21:27.360 beyond that,
00:21:28.140 a meme that is 1.00
00:21:29.120 as stupid as that 1.00
00:21:31.060 sounds convincing. 1.00
00:21:32.400 The world is changing fast
00:21:34.160 and it's not enough
00:21:35.100 to just know
00:21:35.900 what the news is.
00:21:36.940 You have to know
00:21:37.660 how it's being reported
00:21:39.040 because the truth
00:21:40.000 often depends
00:21:40.780 on where you're standing.
00:21:42.020 That's why
00:21:42.560 I use Ground News.
00:21:44.120 It's the only website
00:21:45.480 and app
00:21:45.900 that gathers
00:21:46.520 and compares news
00:21:47.480 from over 50,000 sources
00:21:49.160 around the world.
00:21:50.140 It doesn't just show you
00:21:51.040 the headlines,
00:21:51.740 it also breaks down
00:21:52.820 the political bias
00:21:53.840 and who owns
00:21:54.960 the media outlet
00:21:55.820 you're reading or watching.
00:21:57.020 When you know
00:21:57.460 where the money is coming from,
00:21:58.940 you start to understand
00:22:00.080 how power and influence
00:22:01.360 shape the stories we see.
00:22:02.860 Their blind spot feed
00:22:03.840 is my favorite feature.
00:22:05.040 It shows you
00:22:05.640 which stories
00:22:06.220 are being ignored
00:22:06.940 by either the left
00:22:07.960 or the right
00:22:08.620 so you can actually
00:22:09.860 spot media bias
00:22:10.980 as it's happening
00:22:11.700 and stay ahead
00:22:12.820 of the narrative.
00:22:13.400 They surface
00:22:14.060 around 20 of these
00:22:15.220 a day
00:22:15.600 and some of them
00:22:16.420 are pretty eye-opening.
00:22:17.860 This story
00:22:18.320 on the UK
00:22:18.940 developing a predictive
00:22:20.120 tool to determine
00:22:21.120 if someone will
00:22:21.760 become a killer
00:22:22.420 barely showed up
00:22:23.660 in left-leaning outlets.
00:22:24.960 It's a major story
00:22:25.800 when you think about
00:22:26.520 how far governments
00:22:27.420 might go with AI
00:22:28.260 and surveillance.
00:22:29.240 And on the other side,
00:22:30.400 this story
00:22:31.120 about how more than
00:22:32.140 60% of CEOs
00:22:33.900 expect a recession
00:22:35.000 in the next six months
00:22:35.940 currently has no coverage
00:22:37.460 in right-leaning media
00:22:38.560 at all.
00:22:39.280 That's a pretty big
00:22:40.020 blind spot
00:22:40.520 when you're trying
00:22:41.080 to understand
00:22:41.700 where the economy
00:22:42.400 might be headed.
00:22:43.180 If you're someone
00:22:43.680 who values nuance
00:22:44.700 over noise,
00:22:45.500 Ground News is essential.
00:22:46.940 It's no wonder
00:22:47.600 they have over
00:22:48.180 10,000 five-star reviews.
00:22:50.180 Right now,
00:22:50.780 Trigonometry viewers
00:22:51.620 can subscribe
00:22:52.380 and get 40%
00:22:53.620 off their vantage plan.
00:22:55.040 That's the same one I use.
00:22:56.300 Click the link
00:22:56.880 in the description
00:22:57.600 and visit
00:22:58.240 ground.news
00:22:59.380 slash trigonometry.
00:23:00.740 Start thinking for yourself
00:23:01.960 and subscribe
00:23:02.620 at ground.news
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00:23:35.180 Terms apply.
00:23:36.540 Look,
00:23:36.960 I completely agree.
00:23:37.620 and I also think
00:23:38.460 as well,
00:23:39.540 in a world
00:23:40.260 which is as sanitized
00:23:41.680 as ours,
00:23:42.280 which is as safe
00:23:43.540 as ours,
00:23:44.120 where we talk
00:23:45.360 about things
00:23:45.960 like safe spaces,
00:23:47.000 microaggressions,
00:23:48.080 ad nauseum,
00:23:48.640 I think people
00:23:51.000 are desperate
00:23:51.500 to feel something
00:23:52.420 and one of the
00:23:53.780 easiest ways
00:23:54.680 to feel something
00:23:55.480 is to go online
00:23:56.380 and to see something
00:23:57.380 horrific
00:23:57.760 and there's a part
00:24:00.220 of,
00:24:00.460 just as you can
00:24:01.360 get addicted
00:24:02.080 to things
00:24:03.600 like hardcore
00:24:04.240 pornography
00:24:04.740 or any other
00:24:06.020 type of images,
00:24:07.740 so you can get
00:24:08.760 addicted to a
00:24:09.800 kind of outrage
00:24:10.680 loop where you
00:24:11.580 see a horrendous
00:24:13.460 image or video
00:24:14.480 from war,
00:24:15.100 which are not
00:24:15.660 difficult to find
00:24:16.760 and so you get
00:24:18.080 that mainlined
00:24:18.940 into your brain
00:24:19.840 and then you
00:24:20.920 feel outrage.
00:24:21.900 Of course you feel
00:24:22.600 outrage.
00:24:23.140 It's natural.
00:24:24.260 If you see
00:24:25.000 the corpse
00:24:26.260 of a child
00:24:27.060 being uncovered
00:24:28.220 from rubble,
00:24:29.340 what human being
00:24:30.220 wouldn't be
00:24:30.800 outraged about that?
00:24:32.020 What human being
00:24:32.720 wouldn't feel angry?
00:24:34.400 What human being
00:24:35.300 wouldn't feel despair?
00:24:37.400 But you're not
00:24:38.180 really going to
00:24:38.860 get those emotions,
00:24:40.220 those visceral
00:24:41.060 feelings from
00:24:42.260 your everyday life.
00:24:44.440 So I think
00:24:45.260 people as well,
00:24:46.220 they get hooked
00:24:47.000 on that and then
00:24:48.240 they feel that
00:24:49.160 they are on this
00:24:49.940 part of this
00:24:50.440 moral crusade
00:24:51.520 so then they can
00:24:52.760 talk about what's
00:24:53.960 happening and then
00:24:55.100 they can vent
00:24:55.860 and then they can
00:24:56.460 get angry.
00:24:57.820 And it gives,
00:24:58.720 I suppose it gives
00:24:59.740 them a sense of
00:25:00.340 meaning and purpose.
00:25:01.140 You know,
00:25:01.280 if you just go to
00:25:01.920 your nine-to-five
00:25:02.760 and life is kind
00:25:03.520 of boring and
00:25:04.260 blah, blah, blah,
00:25:04.920 you don't feel
00:25:06.140 alive.
00:25:07.240 Yeah.
00:25:07.800 What if you're
00:25:08.620 on a mission
00:25:11.560 together with
00:25:12.440 other people
00:25:13.040 on some kind
00:25:13.560 of moral crusade?
00:25:15.100 And, you know,
00:25:15.860 one of the things
00:25:16.520 that, you know,
00:25:17.080 it's interesting,
00:25:17.880 after our interview
00:25:19.100 came out,
00:25:19.540 we actually went
00:25:19.980 away for a few
00:25:20.520 days for holiday
00:25:21.300 and we had a chance
00:25:22.660 to meet a few
00:25:23.180 people there.
00:25:23.720 one of them
00:25:24.640 is a former
00:25:26.240 lecturer at one
00:25:28.480 of America's
00:25:29.040 most prestigious
00:25:29.620 universities.
00:25:30.400 And one of the
00:25:30.740 things he said
00:25:31.260 that shocked me
00:25:32.460 but also didn't
00:25:33.140 shock me is he
00:25:33.740 talked about the
00:25:34.340 fact that in his
00:25:36.640 department,
00:25:37.260 which was in the
00:25:38.240 humanities,
00:25:39.560 and this was a
00:25:40.760 relevant test for
00:25:41.500 them to give their
00:25:42.060 students,
00:25:42.880 when they got a new
00:25:43.840 intake of students,
00:25:44.820 they would give
00:25:45.240 them a test,
00:25:46.220 just an induction
00:25:47.080 test, just to find
00:25:47.920 out where they were
00:25:48.440 at, and what
00:25:49.200 they would do
00:25:49.700 is they would
00:25:50.140 ask them to
00:25:51.660 place countries
00:25:52.900 in Europe on
00:25:54.720 a map.
00:25:55.220 They would give
00:25:55.580 them labels,
00:25:56.260 they would give
00:25:56.600 them a blank
00:25:57.000 map and labels
00:25:58.280 to put on.
00:25:58.920 And he said
00:25:59.300 that a third
00:25:59.760 of students,
00:26:01.100 people are going
00:26:01.740 to think a third
00:26:02.180 of students
00:26:02.540 couldn't put the
00:26:03.080 right countries,
00:26:03.640 didn't know where
00:26:04.100 Belgium was.
00:26:04.980 No, a third
00:26:05.860 of students put
00:26:06.960 the labels on
00:26:07.860 the Mediterranean
00:26:08.440 Sea.
00:26:09.140 They could not
00:26:09.840 tell the difference
00:26:10.600 between the sea
00:26:12.040 and the land,
00:26:14.160 right?
00:26:14.640 That's a third
00:26:15.200 of students at
00:26:15.880 one of America's
00:26:16.560 most prestigious
00:26:17.160 universities.
00:26:17.860 The world's
00:26:18.620 one and the
00:26:18.980 world's most
00:26:19.460 prestigious.
00:26:20.620 Yes.
00:26:22.540 And the other
00:26:23.520 thing he said
00:26:24.080 is they don't
00:26:24.860 have the concept
00:26:25.720 of when things
00:26:26.960 happened in time
00:26:27.820 very often.
00:26:28.960 In other words,
00:26:30.380 to them,
00:26:31.980 ancient Greece
00:26:32.760 and the American
00:26:33.680 War of Independence
00:26:34.620 might have
00:26:35.720 happened a hundred
00:26:36.560 years apart.
00:26:38.740 Literally,
00:26:39.400 this is what he
00:26:39.960 said, right?
00:26:40.660 So if you have
00:26:41.620 people whose
00:26:42.220 thinking is
00:26:42.900 disjointed in
00:26:44.040 time and also
00:26:45.060 in space,
00:26:46.020 it means that
00:26:46.900 there are certain
00:26:47.400 things that
00:26:47.840 they're simply
00:26:48.360 not able to
00:26:49.060 understand.
00:26:49.520 We will see
00:26:49.880 this when we
00:26:50.360 analyze the
00:26:50.880 breaking points
00:26:51.420 video because
00:26:52.020 it just stands
00:26:53.000 out that people
00:26:53.820 that accomplished
00:26:54.920 and with such
00:26:55.880 a big audience
00:26:56.580 don't understand
00:26:57.620 basic things.
00:26:59.560 But if you're
00:27:00.940 dislocated in
00:27:01.860 time and space,
00:27:02.700 it means that
00:27:03.300 you have no
00:27:03.900 ability to
00:27:04.640 analyze and
00:27:05.460 assess the
00:27:06.400 thing you're
00:27:06.900 currently seeing
00:27:07.760 in its true
00:27:08.900 context.
00:27:09.960 Because history
00:27:11.020 is context.
00:27:13.300 That's the
00:27:14.360 point.
00:27:14.740 You can't
00:27:15.220 analyze whether
00:27:16.140 what human
00:27:16.660 beings are
00:27:17.100 doing today
00:27:17.800 is right
00:27:18.920 or wrong
00:27:19.380 or good
00:27:19.760 or bad
00:27:20.100 without
00:27:20.280 understanding
00:27:20.980 what human
00:27:21.500 beings have
00:27:21.900 always done.
00:27:22.620 Thomas Sowell is
00:27:23.180 one of the
00:27:23.480 things he always
00:27:23.840 talks about.
00:27:24.580 Their best way
00:27:25.340 to predict
00:27:26.440 human behavior
00:27:27.120 in the future
00:27:27.680 is to notice
00:27:28.880 human behavior
00:27:29.560 in the past.
00:27:30.120 So if you're
00:27:32.760 dislocated in
00:27:33.480 this way,
00:27:33.800 then you can't
00:27:34.600 even ask the
00:27:35.180 question of,
00:27:36.600 yes, these
00:27:37.080 things are
00:27:37.420 happening.
00:27:38.060 Why are they
00:27:39.020 happening?
00:27:40.180 If civilians
00:27:41.100 are dying in
00:27:41.760 Gaza, why is 0.52
00:27:42.980 that?
00:27:44.720 But if you
00:27:45.860 just see the
00:27:46.540 images and you
00:27:46.980 go, oh, that's
00:27:47.440 terrible, then
00:27:48.640 all of that
00:27:49.140 context goes
00:27:49.720 away entirely.
00:27:51.040 Of course.
00:27:51.620 And it's also
00:27:52.180 as well, but it
00:27:53.260 also comes down
00:27:54.060 to something else,
00:27:54.840 Konstantin.
00:27:55.300 And it's
00:27:56.020 something that
00:27:56.660 I have a
00:27:57.760 constant battle
00:27:58.380 with, and I
00:27:58.800 think everybody
00:27:59.400 has a constant
00:28:00.020 battle with,
00:28:00.600 which is ego,
00:28:01.780 which is you've
00:28:03.080 got to have the
00:28:04.080 humility to
00:28:05.340 realize there
00:28:06.220 are things that
00:28:06.820 you do not
00:28:07.480 understand in
00:28:08.220 this world.
00:28:09.220 I do not
00:28:10.240 comment on
00:28:11.400 whether Israel
00:28:13.180 should stop the
00:28:14.080 war or have
00:28:16.040 they gone too
00:28:16.780 far, because the
00:28:17.740 answer is I
00:28:18.380 don't know.
00:28:19.760 Thank God I've
00:28:20.900 never been in a
00:28:21.500 battlefield.
00:28:22.420 Thank God I've
00:28:23.000 never had to
00:28:23.500 join an army.
00:28:24.420 I am not a
00:28:25.280 military person,
00:28:26.140 I'm not a
00:28:26.620 military expert,
00:28:27.460 I'm not a
00:28:27.860 geopolitical expert.
00:28:29.360 I do not know
00:28:30.440 enough.
00:28:31.720 My job is to
00:28:32.820 investigate these
00:28:33.740 things like you
00:28:34.580 do and to
00:28:35.380 talk to people
00:28:36.960 far more
00:28:37.740 learned than
00:28:38.360 ourselves about
00:28:39.020 particular subjects.
00:28:40.260 As a result of
00:28:41.040 that, I think I've
00:28:41.660 got more
00:28:42.000 information than
00:28:42.680 your average
00:28:43.100 layman, but I
00:28:44.380 don't presume to
00:28:45.900 understand what
00:28:47.260 we should do when
00:28:48.620 it comes to
00:28:49.620 this war and
00:28:50.680 what the
00:28:51.020 ramifications are
00:28:52.020 going to be
00:28:52.540 afterwards.
00:28:53.240 Because UK,
00:28:53.940 okay, stop the
00:28:54.720 war.
00:28:55.280 Right?
00:28:55.840 And then
00:28:56.320 what?
00:28:57.720 And then
00:28:58.260 what?
00:28:58.820 What are we
00:28:59.320 going to do?
00:28:59.720 What's going to
00:29:00.120 happen with
00:29:00.540 Hamas? 0.90
00:29:01.300 What's going to
00:29:01.740 happen with
00:29:02.140 Fatah?
00:29:02.860 What's going to
00:29:03.380 happen with
00:29:03.760 I don't know.
00:29:05.280 I genuinely
00:29:06.040 don't know.
00:29:07.140 Well, if you
00:29:07.760 think about it,
00:29:09.060 nobody does.
00:29:10.520 That's why this
00:29:11.020 conflict's been
00:29:11.580 going on for as
00:29:12.460 long as it
00:29:12.840 has.
00:29:13.800 If someone had
00:29:15.200 a solution to
00:29:16.140 the Middle
00:29:16.520 East, we
00:29:18.420 would have had
00:29:19.280 it by now.
00:29:20.440 This is the
00:29:21.040 point.
00:29:21.420 It's very,
00:29:22.020 very difficult.
00:29:24.260 This is why
00:29:25.620 I think we
00:29:27.180 inevitably find
00:29:28.140 ourselves at
00:29:28.800 the point where
00:29:29.580 we need to
00:29:29.980 discuss the
00:29:30.460 breaking points
00:29:30.980 video.
00:29:31.860 This is why
00:29:32.640 as people will
00:29:34.620 see, they
00:29:35.340 position our
00:29:37.160 interview, which
00:29:37.760 they haven't
00:29:38.100 watched.
00:29:38.800 Yeah, because
00:29:39.800 that's the best
00:29:40.280 way to do
00:29:40.720 research, mate,
00:29:41.340 I think.
00:29:42.360 I always, you
00:29:43.080 know what, when
00:29:43.740 I'm researching
00:29:44.360 for a guest,
00:29:45.800 what I like to
00:29:46.980 do is go, is
00:29:48.120 just not do any
00:29:49.080 interview, is not
00:29:49.760 do any for
00:29:50.160 research.
00:29:51.040 It's kind of
00:29:51.520 meta.
00:29:52.480 I am laughing,
00:29:54.900 but it is sad.
00:29:55.980 Anyway, they
00:29:56.500 position our
00:29:57.060 interview, which
00:29:57.460 they haven't
00:29:57.820 watched, as us
00:29:59.720 trying to make
00:30:00.440 Netanyahu look
00:30:01.720 reasonable, when
00:30:03.180 in the last
00:30:04.040 question of the
00:30:04.820 interview, I
00:30:05.420 say to him,
00:30:06.420 how are you
00:30:06.960 actually going to
00:30:07.700 achieve peace?
00:30:08.840 Now, that seems
00:30:09.480 to me like a 0.99
00:30:10.040 pretty fucking 0.97
00:30:10.520 important question 0.99
00:30:11.340 to ask a person
00:30:12.480 who's involved in
00:30:13.220 a conflict.
00:30:13.620 What is your
00:30:14.560 peace process
00:30:15.900 that you have
00:30:16.820 in your head,
00:30:17.800 given the
00:30:18.340 realities on
00:30:19.040 the ground?
00:30:20.360 And they
00:30:21.020 present that as
00:30:22.160 us making him
00:30:23.120 look moderate.
00:30:23.960 Anyway, let's
00:30:24.420 watch the video
00:30:24.980 and we'll talk
00:30:25.700 about it, because
00:30:26.160 this is
00:30:26.420 incredible.
00:30:33.580 Fresh off his
00:30:34.820 blockbuster
00:30:35.460 appearance with
00:30:36.140 the NELC boys,
00:30:37.220 Benjamin Netanyahu
00:30:38.040 has now joined
00:30:38.960 the gentleman of
00:30:39.840 Triggernometry 0.94
00:30:40.460 for an appearance.
00:30:42.740 Admittedly, I
00:30:43.460 haven't had a
00:30:43.880 chance, this
00:30:44.240 came out last
00:30:44.720 night, so I
00:30:45.000 haven't had a
00:30:45.300 chance to watch
00:30:45.720 the whole thing.
00:30:46.280 Producer Griffin.
00:30:48.200 It doesn't
00:30:48.580 burn.
00:30:52.920 Do you know
00:30:53.420 what?
00:30:53.700 Maybe people have
00:30:54.380 got a point about
00:30:55.040 new media.
00:30:55.820 I take it back.
00:30:57.200 Right, they do.
00:30:58.220 By the way, I
00:30:58.940 should say, the
00:31:00.060 moment I saw this
00:31:00.920 video, now, you
00:31:01.660 know me, you will
00:31:02.480 confirm this, I
00:31:03.360 never ever get
00:31:04.400 annoyed about people
00:31:05.280 criticizing us, ever.
00:31:07.420 Right?
00:31:07.760 Because I'm like,
00:31:08.820 you want to put your
00:31:09.500 opinion out in public,
00:31:10.420 or you want to be a
00:31:11.120 public figure, or you
00:31:11.940 want to do things in
00:31:12.720 public, people are
00:31:13.600 going to have an
00:31:14.020 opinion.
00:31:14.500 I always give this
00:31:15.360 example, do you know
00:31:16.960 who Steph Curry is?
00:31:18.000 Yes.
00:31:18.600 So, Steph Curry, for
00:31:19.520 people who don't
00:31:20.020 know, is an amazing
00:31:21.700 basketball player in
00:31:22.920 the NBA, to the
00:31:23.720 point where he's not
00:31:24.800 just amazing, he's
00:31:26.340 like one of those
00:31:27.060 once-in-a-generation
00:31:28.020 people who actually
00:31:29.040 changed the game.
00:31:29.920 Yeah.
00:31:30.440 And by all accounts,
00:31:31.360 he's a great guy, a
00:31:32.800 great family man, a
00:31:34.380 brilliant player, a
00:31:35.220 brilliant teammate, and 0.99
00:31:35.940 I fucking hate him. 0.99
00:31:37.420 And I do, because he 1.00
00:31:39.100 changed the game in a
00:31:40.240 way that I don't like.
00:31:41.320 I grew up in the
00:31:42.580 Michael Jordan era,
00:31:43.860 where people basically
00:31:45.000 hardly ever shot three
00:31:46.240 points.
00:31:47.600 Steph Curry can shoot
00:31:48.580 them from a halfway 0.91
00:31:49.260 line, and it's changed
00:31:50.200 the game entirely, and
00:31:51.440 because of that, I think
00:31:52.560 it's kind of boring.
00:31:53.480 I don't like it as
00:31:54.300 much.
00:31:54.680 I hate this guy, who's 0.96
00:31:55.600 in it, by all accounts, 0.90
00:31:56.460 a great guy.
00:31:57.180 Yeah.
00:31:57.360 My point being, the
00:31:58.480 moment you are in the
00:31:59.320 public eye, people are
00:32:00.520 going to have their
00:32:01.020 opinions about you,
00:32:01.960 they're going to like to
00:32:02.780 hate you.
00:32:03.440 I totally understand, and
00:32:04.920 I have no problem with
00:32:05.740 it.
00:32:05.880 When I watched this
00:32:07.760 video, I literally, I 0.99
00:32:10.340 fucking exploded. 0.99
00:32:11.740 I was like, how can you 1.00
00:32:12.880 be so stupid? 1.00
00:32:13.940 Their channel has the 1.00
00:32:14.800 same number of
00:32:15.360 subscribers as ours.
00:32:16.200 They've got a big
00:32:16.940 YouTube channel, and
00:32:17.980 look at them.
00:32:19.240 Look at the way they
00:32:19.860 presented it.
00:32:20.360 They purport to be
00:32:21.260 journalists, right?
00:32:23.100 And this is how they
00:32:24.020 start this video.
00:32:26.280 Admittedly, I haven't
00:32:27.240 watched it, but my
00:32:28.500 producer has picked out
00:32:29.700 a clip that totally
00:32:30.460 misrepresents the
00:32:31.400 interview.
00:32:32.420 Let's talk about it.
00:32:33.320 I know, I know, and
00:32:35.220 this, the thing that I
00:32:37.880 found, it's almost a
00:32:40.540 satirical parody of new
00:32:42.300 media.
00:32:43.100 There's a comedian who
00:32:44.140 I actually want to have
00:32:44.860 on the show called
00:32:45.460 Mark Maron, who is
00:32:46.240 highly critical of new
00:32:47.700 media, and to be fair,
00:32:49.340 I think he makes a
00:32:49.960 number of good points,
00:32:50.580 and he's very funny
00:32:51.180 about it.
00:32:52.620 But this is like
00:32:53.600 something, this is like
00:32:55.180 a sketch Mark would
00:32:56.320 write.
00:32:57.100 If the SNL did a
00:32:58.540 sketch, this is the
00:33:00.360 opening line.
00:33:01.180 Now, I haven't seen
00:33:01.960 this thing.
00:33:02.520 I haven't seen this
00:33:03.680 interview, but listen
00:33:04.720 to me make a half an
00:33:05.700 hour video about it
00:33:06.640 where I commented
00:33:07.320 about it in depth.
00:33:08.640 Do you know, there's a
00:33:09.160 very famous Soviet joke 0.97
00:33:10.980 about this, where there
00:33:11.760 was a poet called
00:33:12.640 Brodsky, who was, he
00:33:13.980 was being prosecuted in
00:33:16.060 Russia, in Soviet
00:33:17.640 Russia, for basically
00:33:19.420 having the wrong
00:33:19.980 opinion.
00:33:21.080 And at his trial, one
00:33:22.740 of the people said, I
00:33:23.580 haven't listened to his
00:33:24.460 poetry, but I'd just
00:33:25.380 like to say.
00:33:27.420 This is like, how
00:33:28.800 are you?
00:33:29.140 Anyway, let's see what
00:33:32.660 opinions she has, having
00:33:33.880 not watched the
00:33:34.440 interview.
00:33:36.900 Producer Griffin pulled
00:33:38.000 a couple clips that he
00:33:38.920 thought were
00:33:39.620 interesting.
00:33:40.500 Let's go ahead and
00:33:41.020 take a listen to this
00:33:41.880 first one.
00:33:42.340 This is Konstantin
00:33:43.300 saying basically, listen,
00:33:44.500 I don't think there's
00:33:45.120 any peace possible with
00:33:46.680 these people in Gaza
00:33:47.700 because they are
00:33:48.560 quote-unquote Jew 0.97
00:33:49.480 haters.
00:33:50.080 Let's take a listen.
00:33:52.080 I didn't say no peace
00:33:53.520 is possible.
00:33:54.200 I'm saying how are you
00:33:55.360 going to get to peace?
00:33:56.360 As I said before, that's
00:33:57.840 what a journalist is
00:33:58.620 supposed to ask the
00:33:59.680 Prime Minister of
00:34:00.460 Israel.
00:34:01.400 How are you planning to
00:34:02.540 get peace when this is
00:34:03.700 a reality on the
00:34:04.480 ground?
00:34:04.820 By the way, forgive me
00:34:05.860 for calling the people
00:34:08.060 who support Hamas 0.73
00:34:08.980 overwhelmingly Jew 0.99
00:34:09.900 haters.
00:34:11.400 I mean, is that a
00:34:13.120 contested claim?
00:34:15.660 I don't...
00:34:16.940 I don't understand what
00:34:18.380 she's saying.
00:34:18.800 Is she saying they're
00:34:19.320 not Jew haters?
00:34:20.040 Yeah.
00:34:20.820 Yeah, I think if you
00:34:22.600 want the river to the 0.98
00:34:24.140 sea, Palestine to be 0.90
00:34:26.020 free, which is the
00:34:26.780 obliteration of the
00:34:27.640 Israeli state, you are 0.97
00:34:29.380 a Jew.
00:34:30.240 Has she not seen
00:34:31.020 clips of the education
00:34:32.380 system in Gaza and
00:34:33.520 videos on TV where
00:34:34.500 they're literally teaching
00:34:35.960 their children that Jews 1.00
00:34:37.340 are like rats? 1.00
00:34:38.520 Yeah.
00:34:39.020 And I wouldn't say...
00:34:39.640 Yeah.
00:34:40.000 And let's take the word
00:34:41.180 teaching and put
00:34:41.960 indoctrinate in there.
00:34:43.460 Has she not seen that?
00:34:44.300 Has she not seen the
00:34:44.860 polling from Gaza?
00:34:46.300 Yeah.
00:34:46.500 Does she not know what
00:34:47.720 Hamas actually stands for?
00:34:49.480 But this is the thing.
00:34:50.480 This is people who
00:34:51.520 comment about the
00:34:52.300 Middle East, who know 0.61
00:34:53.540 nothing about the
00:34:54.840 Middle East.
00:34:55.360 It's why, you know,
00:34:56.660 and Douglas Murray got
00:34:57.620 in trouble for this when
00:34:58.500 he said the immortal
00:34:59.260 words, you've never
00:35:00.020 been.
00:35:00.700 But as somebody who
00:35:01.660 has Lebanese heritage
00:35:03.500 and talks to their
00:35:05.520 Lebanese family, people
00:35:08.060 don't understand that the
00:35:09.340 way people think in that
00:35:10.500 part of the world and the
00:35:11.480 attitudes they have are
00:35:13.060 very, very, very
00:35:14.760 different from the
00:35:15.960 attitudes people hold
00:35:17.000 in the West.
00:35:17.780 But you can think that
00:35:19.000 what Israel is doing is 0.94
00:35:20.300 evil and wrong and
00:35:21.600 terrible in every way and
00:35:22.980 blah, blah, blah.
00:35:23.580 But you can't deny that
00:35:25.600 people in Gaza
00:35:26.580 overwhelmingly hate
00:35:27.960 Israel and Jews. 0.79
00:35:29.680 Yes.
00:35:31.080 That's not a contestable
00:35:33.500 claim.
00:35:33.860 That's just a statement of
00:35:34.760 fact.
00:35:35.640 Absolutely.
00:35:36.380 Absolutely.
00:35:36.960 But again, it goes back
00:35:38.960 to, and we've got this
00:35:40.520 interview coming out with
00:35:41.380 Tom Holland, which is
00:35:42.300 absolutely brilliant, where
00:35:44.060 Tom talks about the fact
00:35:45.400 that even if you're an
00:35:46.340 atheist, even if you have
00:35:48.240 met, you think to
00:35:49.100 yourself that you are not
00:35:49.980 Christian in any way, you
00:35:51.700 have been raised into a
00:35:54.120 society with Christian 0.90
00:35:55.680 morals and values and a
00:35:57.320 Christian outlook.
00:35:58.500 That is the waters that
00:36:00.520 you swim in.
00:36:01.940 And so naturally, in our
00:36:03.560 culture and our society, we
00:36:05.240 think that everybody else is
00:36:07.080 raised with Christian values
00:36:08.240 and morals.
00:36:08.860 And that is quite simply not
00:36:10.720 the case.
00:36:11.740 Right.
00:36:12.500 And people don't seem to
00:36:13.660 understand that.
00:36:14.720 They seem to think, and
00:36:16.220 this is the reason why we
00:36:17.780 thought we could bring
00:36:18.500 democracy to the Middle
00:36:20.040 East, why we could go out
00:36:21.600 and that people would all
00:36:23.220 of a sudden want democracy
00:36:24.540 and Western values.
00:36:26.360 But that is a form of
00:36:28.080 arrogance because we
00:36:29.600 believe everyone thinks
00:36:30.560 like us, but they don't
00:36:32.380 because they've been raised
00:36:33.360 with a different value, a
00:36:34.680 different culture and a
00:36:35.800 different religion. 0.89
00:36:37.240 They hate you. 0.99
00:36:38.480 They hate Israel and they 1.00
00:36:39.900 hate Jews. 0.98
00:36:40.580 How are you going to have a 0.99
00:36:42.960 peaceful coexistence with
00:36:44.700 those people, particularly
00:36:45.820 successful progress of
00:36:47.880 de-radicalization in some
00:36:50.180 of the Gulf states, which
00:36:52.160 are actually proving to be
00:36:54.400 to break the, you know,
00:36:57.000 this prototype of Arab
00:36:58.200 societies that cannot seize
00:36:59.600 the future?
00:37:00.200 I'm not saying they're model
00:37:01.100 democracies, mind you.
00:37:02.580 They're not.
00:37:03.520 But they're certainly, they
00:37:04.800 certainly want to seize
00:37:06.300 modernity and not go back
00:37:07.900 to the savage and early
00:37:10.520 medievalism.
00:37:11.980 Please tell me how
00:37:13.440 Constantine is making
00:37:15.160 Netanyahu sound more
00:37:16.240 moderate than him.
00:37:17.060 And like, yeah, just the
00:37:18.960 idea that, okay, you know,
00:37:20.520 these people hate you.
00:37:21.340 Yeah, gee, I wonder why.
00:37:22.720 Maybe it's because they've
00:37:23.620 been like occupied and
00:37:25.040 being starved and bombed to
00:37:26.680 pieces for, you know, and
00:37:28.720 not even just post-October
00:37:29.940 7th.
00:37:30.360 But also, Sagar, you can
00:37:31.580 speak to this.
00:37:33.940 Do you think she's read the
00:37:35.100 Quran? 0.78
00:37:36.180 No.
00:37:36.380 Do you think she understands
00:37:37.980 the history of how
00:37:40.980 Christians and Jews have
00:37:42.180 always been treated in the
00:37:43.740 Muslim world? 0.98
00:37:44.660 No.
00:37:45.200 Christians and Jews are 0.98
00:37:46.420 by definition second-class 0.91
00:37:48.440 citizens.
00:37:48.980 Doesn't mean they were
00:37:49.640 killed necessarily or
00:37:51.280 whatever, but people of
00:37:52.780 the book, Christians and
00:37:53.840 Jews in Muslim society
00:37:55.040 throughout history, were
00:37:56.360 by definition second-class
00:37:57.960 citizens.
00:37:59.140 By definition, looked down
00:38:00.580 upon.
00:38:00.920 By definition, having to
00:38:02.040 pay a different tax, use a
00:38:03.520 different, you know, like
00:38:05.200 ride a donkey instead of a
00:38:07.020 horse, all of this other
00:38:07.780 stuff.
00:38:08.040 She thinks that many Muslims 0.98
00:38:13.940 hate Jews because of Gaza. 0.88
00:38:20.320 It's somebody, and again, we 0.70
00:38:22.160 go back to this, who's got no
00:38:23.840 understanding of the Middle
00:38:24.800 East.
00:38:25.660 My family, my grandfather's
00:38:27.280 family, are from Lebanon.
00:38:30.140 They are, if you look at South
00:38:32.980 America, in particular, Colombia
00:38:34.600 and Venezuela, it has hundreds
00:38:38.640 of thousands of Lebanese,
00:38:41.260 Syrian, and Middle Eastern
00:38:42.460 Christians. 0.51
00:38:43.580 Why is that?
00:38:44.900 Did they just go there because
00:38:46.040 they fancied a nice little
00:38:47.060 beach holiday?
00:38:48.240 You know, they liked, you
00:38:49.060 know, dancing along with the
00:38:50.120 maracas.
00:38:50.540 I know that's Mexican, but you 1.00
00:38:51.520 get my point.
00:38:52.640 They liked a little bit of
00:38:53.780 samba and a carnival.
00:38:54.920 No.
00:38:55.560 They fled for their lives
00:38:56.960 because they knew what would
00:38:58.340 happen.
00:38:58.900 Was Israel attacking them?
00:39:00.720 Might well have been, mate.
00:39:01.480 But that's the sort of thing
00:39:03.940 that she probably thinks.
00:39:04.900 Yeah.
00:39:05.720 She probably thinks the
00:39:06.860 entire Middle East, which was
00:39:08.000 completely Christian, completely 0.98
00:39:10.180 Christian, and now isn't, is 1.00
00:39:12.460 because of Israel.
00:39:13.920 Yeah.
00:39:14.600 And it's a complete historical
00:39:16.900 illiteracy.
00:39:18.260 It's a not understanding of the
00:39:20.140 Middle East and its history,
00:39:21.820 which is complicated and tragic
00:39:24.240 and bloodsourced.
00:39:25.080 The people who are the
00:39:26.000 precursors to Hamas, the Muslim
00:39:27.620 Brotherhood, right, they joined
00:39:29.620 forces with Hitler before Israel
00:39:31.220 even existed.
00:39:32.400 Yeah.
00:39:33.380 Like, what is she talking
00:39:35.060 about?
00:39:36.600 But you see, this goes back to
00:39:39.020 what I was talking about, which
00:39:40.220 has been with argument A and
00:39:41.760 argument B.
00:39:42.840 And if you want to be with
00:39:44.200 argument A, let's just call it
00:39:45.840 that's the side that breaking
00:39:47.120 points are on, the anti-war, the
00:39:48.760 stop the war, the whatever else.
00:39:50.900 Then what you have to do is you
00:39:54.580 have to be blind to the history
00:39:56.800 and to what has happened. 0.99
00:39:59.600 She's making me fucking 0.99
00:40:00.460 appreciate Dave Smith. 0.98
00:40:02.080 At least she's read something.
00:40:04.000 Yeah.
00:40:05.020 Like, how is she?
00:40:07.200 It's so frustrating because, look,
00:40:08.900 like I said, people are allowed to
00:40:10.240 criticize, they're allowed to have
00:40:11.140 their own opinion.
00:40:11.680 But if you're going to comment on
00:40:14.040 something like this and you don't
00:40:16.280 know anything, how are you called
00:40:17.780 crystal ball and you have no
00:40:19.180 knowledge or insight?
00:40:20.340 How did that happen?
00:40:21.840 And by the way, if it sounds like
00:40:23.120 we're slagging them off, right, the
00:40:24.960 moment we saw this video released, we
00:40:26.820 had our team reach out to them and
00:40:28.180 say, I would be very happy to come
00:40:29.540 on and discuss this.
00:40:30.560 They read our email and guess what?
00:40:32.040 No response.
00:40:32.760 Yeah.
00:40:33.100 Right.
00:40:33.560 Anyway, this is making me angry.
00:40:35.040 Keep watching.
00:40:36.440 It's October 7th.
00:40:37.340 But also, Sagar, you can speak to
00:40:38.840 this.
00:40:39.300 How many times throughout history have
00:40:40.460 we seen bitter enemies who hate
00:40:42.380 each other?
00:40:43.140 And guess what?
00:40:43.780 When you're able to come up with
00:40:45.120 some sort of a peace deal and have
00:40:47.360 a coexistence, you know, that fades
00:40:49.360 over.
00:40:49.660 So we can see it with our own
00:40:50.500 country.
00:40:51.080 You know, we were bitter enemies,
00:40:52.500 obviously went to war with Germany and
00:40:53.800 Japan.
00:40:54.040 And now these are some of our
00:40:55.020 closest allies.
00:40:55.820 We can see it inside of our own
00:40:56.860 country.
00:41:00.980 Did you hear what she just said?
00:41:03.500 Did you hear what she just said?
00:41:04.680 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:41:05.900 When you have some sort of peace
00:41:07.520 plan, then you can come together
00:41:10.260 like we did with Germany and Japan.
00:41:13.160 You dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan 0.63
00:41:17.980 and you flattened Germany. 0.68
00:41:21.040 And arguably, the bombing was worse.
00:41:24.520 It was way worse.
00:41:26.340 And now you're presenting that as the
00:41:28.660 way to approach Gaza, where you're
00:41:31.380 criticizing Netanyahu for what he's
00:41:33.080 doing.
00:41:35.020 What?
00:41:36.700 I don't think anyone's ever seen me
00:41:39.100 this as aspirated.
00:41:40.300 I am not regularly confronted with this
00:41:42.080 level of retardation. 0.98
00:41:43.160 What is she talking about?
00:41:47.120 But look, again, it goes back to a
00:41:49.860 historical illiteracy, because if you
00:41:51.860 knew about the Second World War, if you
00:41:54.700 knew...
00:41:55.560 That's what I asked Netanyahu about.
00:41:57.460 That's why I was saying to him, what is
00:41:59.020 your approach to peace, given that you've
00:42:01.140 got a radicalized population like you had
00:42:03.520 in Nazi Germany and like you had in Japan?
00:42:06.200 It's almost like they didn't watch the
00:42:07.260 video, mate.
00:42:07.740 In Germany, after the war, if you wanted to
00:42:12.600 get a food parcel as a German, you had to go 1.00
00:42:14.920 and watch a movie about the Holocaust to
00:42:17.260 get it.
00:42:17.860 Yeah.
00:42:18.160 That was the level of de-radicalization that
00:42:20.440 had to happen.
00:42:21.440 Yeah.
00:42:21.560 Help me, Francis.
00:42:27.100 How is this possible?
00:42:29.220 How are these people talking on YouTube?
00:42:31.760 How...
00:42:32.160 And I went in the...
00:42:32.860 I confess.
00:42:33.940 I don't usually read the comments.
00:42:35.400 I went in the comments expecting people to 1.00
00:42:37.300 obviously go, this is so stupid. 1.00
00:42:38.680 They all agree with her. 1.00
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00:44:53.920 Look, this is, and again, to me, this is the issue
00:45:02.480 with new media and this is the issue with the internet
00:45:04.400 in that you can have these views and opinions,
00:45:07.060 but if you don't have people to challenge them,
00:45:09.560 if you don't have people for the opposite side,
00:45:11.980 then what happens is you get these views and opinions
00:45:15.620 and they're nonsensical, but because they're not
00:45:19.160 robustly challenged, people don't point out
00:45:21.900 and the flaws with your argument.
00:45:23.320 That seemed to happen to Ann Coulter in this very
00:45:25.980 review, if you remember.
00:45:27.180 Yeah.
00:45:27.440 But Saga knows history.
00:45:28.860 Yeah.
00:45:29.220 Right?
00:45:29.820 And he just sits there and nods along.
00:45:31.580 Yeah.
00:45:33.500 What's going on?
00:45:39.720 Our own country, north and south.
00:45:41.220 Yeah, it's true.
00:45:41.500 Took a long time to shake out.
00:45:42.920 Yeah, that's exactly right.
00:45:43.560 I mean, that is the Israeli line, which drives me more insane 1.00
00:45:47.900 than any other, is we can't be expected to live next to
00:45:51.200 these people.
00:45:51.620 No, actually, you can.
00:45:53.060 If India has to live next to Pakistan, you can do it too. 1.00
00:45:56.000 All right?
00:45:56.380 Yeah, they both have nuclear weapons and mutually assured
00:45:59.060 destruction.
00:45:59.720 If Iran has to live next to Saudi Arabia, then so can you. 0.98
00:46:03.040 I could go on forever.
00:46:03.720 Northern Ireland and Ireland.
00:46:05.160 Yeah, absolutely.
00:46:05.560 I mean, how many of these have we now lived through?
00:46:08.920 They're like, they actually, Israeli exception is that they 0.99
00:46:12.440 want to be the only nation in the history of the world that
00:46:15.620 actually is not required to live next to the people.
00:46:19.620 What, again, that speaks to you.
00:46:21.160 So you're talking about Ireland and Northern Ireland.
00:46:23.740 You know, that, Ireland was a civil war, but that is very
00:46:26.660 different.
00:46:27.780 And by the way, Irish family, Irish heritage, all the rest of
00:46:32.320 it, I know a little bit about the history of Ireland.
00:46:34.540 Ireland, that is very, very different.
00:46:37.140 I find it actually really frustrating when people compare
00:46:40.260 Northern Ireland to what is happening.
00:46:42.580 Now, of course, there was hatred.
00:46:43.820 Of course, people were dying.
00:46:45.200 Of course, there were murders.
00:46:46.300 There were bombs.
00:46:46.900 There were terrorism.
00:46:47.540 It was tragic, awful.
00:46:48.880 The history of Ireland is particularly blood-soaked and
00:46:51.500 brutal, but it does not compare to the Middle East.
00:46:55.400 It's a completely different thing.
00:46:57.440 You have one religion in Ireland split into two factions,
00:47:01.620 Protestantism, Catholicism.
00:47:03.940 In the Middle East, you have Islam and Judaism. 0.75
00:47:08.200 You don't only have Islam, you have Islamism. 0.99
00:47:11.860 You cannot compare, in my view, Christian extremism, which is what you 1.00
00:47:16.760 have, and Islamism.
00:47:19.020 Islamism, which is what Hamas is, is a type of religious ideology that
00:47:27.780 celebrates the death of their own children in order to achieve a political outcome.
00:47:34.840 You get extremists in Northern Ireland, you get people like Bobby Sands who will go and
00:47:41.060 hang a strike and will die and will not eat for his political cause. 0.58
00:47:45.300 I doubt Bobby Sands would have wanted his own children to die of starvation and to see
00:47:49.980 them suffer.
00:47:51.580 Hamas and Islamists see that as a noble outcome and something to be celebrated. 0.83
00:47:58.880 That is highly different.
00:48:01.460 And also, I wasn't advocating in my question to Netanyahu that they shouldn't live next to 0.88
00:48:08.680 people in Gaza, nor was that what Netanyahu was saying.
00:48:11.520 He was saying we need a program of deradicalization so these people don't want to kill us all the
00:48:16.700 time.
00:48:17.100 Then we can live in peace.
00:48:18.300 That's his mission, as he believes it to be.
00:48:22.100 So no one is saying, at least they're not saying, Netanyahu's not saying and we're not
00:48:27.000 saying, that they can't.
00:48:28.640 That wasn't what was said in that interview.
00:48:30.400 No.
00:48:30.960 I don't know what they're talking about.
00:48:32.740 No.
00:48:33.620 No.
00:48:34.000 And again, it goes back to what are you doing is taking clips from an interview without
00:48:39.600 context.
00:48:40.520 You haven't done the work.
00:48:41.960 You don't have the background understanding.
00:48:44.560 If you take something and go, look, this is a clip from the interview.
00:48:48.300 Just for the audience, you have to know that this was discussed, this was discussed, this
00:48:52.240 was discussed.
00:48:52.920 They did the same thing with me where they took...
00:48:55.120 Well, we'll get to it.
00:48:55.740 Yeah, yeah, we'll get to it.
00:48:56.920 And so you just go, actually, you don't know what you're talking about.
00:49:01.240 They don't.
00:49:02.000 It's like...
00:49:02.840 It's like...
00:49:03.860 And by the way, we should say, they're intelligent people.
00:49:07.140 Yeah.
00:49:08.440 I assume.
00:49:09.440 Yeah.
00:49:09.780 No, they are.
00:49:10.300 They are, right? 0.63
00:49:12.080 But I guess ignorance combined with intelligence is actually the worst outcome.
00:49:17.680 Absolutely. 0.99
00:49:18.120 Because if you're smart and you're ignorant, then what you can do is you can logically argue 0.91
00:49:23.580 your way into any position, which is what we've seen with a lot of the kind of the progressive 0.94
00:49:28.340 hyper-liberal movements and what we've seen with the woke right, where you're smart so
00:49:34.000 you can go, oh, you know, diversity of our strength is bad.
00:49:37.720 Therefore, hey, let's all support white people. 0.94
00:49:41.900 Nothing wrong with supporting white people, but we don't want identity politics for any group, 0.75
00:49:46.020 really.
00:49:46.220 Yeah, exactly.
00:49:47.380 Yeah.
00:49:47.780 I don't mean supporting white people. 0.84
00:49:49.260 I mean, let's now get revenge, which is what it is. 0.90
00:49:52.360 That's what you're saying.
00:49:53.100 Yeah.
00:49:53.420 Okay.
00:49:54.400 Better question is how, you know, Palestinians after this genocide of them could be expected 1.00
00:50:00.020 to live next to the Israelis.
00:50:01.720 But...
00:50:01.920 But that's something we should expect of them, too. 0.99
00:50:03.420 We're like, listen, you got a shit deal, but you have to live here. 0.99
00:50:06.060 That's exactly right. 0.99
00:50:06.980 I mean, that's the nature of, you know, of humanity.
00:50:10.500 That's the nature of being able to have some sort of an agreement.
00:50:14.400 And yes, over time, not to say that there won't be continued to be tensions as there
00:50:18.820 are, you know, in Ireland and Northern Ireland, like there continue to be tensions.
00:50:22.520 But the idea that, oh, no, you couldn't possibly live next to these is just preposterous and
00:50:27.740 historically illiterate.
00:50:28.780 But there was another interesting section where the other host, Francis, is pressing Netanyahu
00:50:33.760 a bit on some of the comments of, you know, the Smotrichs and the Ben Gavirs.
00:50:38.120 Let's go ahead and take a listen to how that went down.
00:50:40.740 There are critics of yours, Prime Minister, who will say, well, part of the reason that
00:50:46.440 Israel is losing the propaganda war is when you have ministers like Smotrich making incendiary
00:50:53.420 or inflammatory comments, and there doesn't seem to be any particular pushback from your
00:50:58.660 government to this.
00:50:59.980 They go, well, what does what does a prime minister really believe?
00:51:05.100 Well, what I believe I say in a parliamentary system, people are free to say.
00:51:09.320 Sometimes they say things they don't quite mean.
00:51:11.520 It happens all the time.
00:51:12.820 You have a very active fringe.
00:51:15.400 Prime Minister, forgive me, but these aren't parliamentarians.
00:51:17.680 These are people who are part of your government and they remain part of your government after
00:51:21.680 they say these things that to many people, even your friends, sound a little bit like
00:51:26.200 ethnic cleansing is being discussed.
00:51:28.200 Well, we're not discussing ethnic cleansing.
00:51:30.240 And to the extent that we have these conversations around the cabinet, the security cabinet, that
00:51:34.580 is actually not being discussed by these people.
00:51:37.380 But Prime Minister, may I just interrupt?
00:51:39.080 When you have your finance minister making a speech and talking about occupying Gaza and
00:51:44.660 there doesn't seem to be any pushback within the government, people quite rightly, in my opinion,
00:51:49.860 would say, well, surely aren't you condoning that type of rhetoric?
00:51:53.660 No.
00:51:54.000 And that is exacerbating Israel's PR problem.
00:51:57.320 I disagree completely.
00:51:58.520 When somebody says that and I'm asked, is that your policy?
00:52:01.320 And I say, no, it's not my policy.
00:52:03.280 I don't intend to build the settlements or communities in Gaza and not Israeli ones. 0.88
00:52:07.740 I want a non-Israeli civilian governance after that is committed to living in peace with us. 0.91
00:52:13.840 It is so unbelievably dishonest at this point to still pretend like that's not your policy
00:52:19.420 and like you condemn it and you have nothing to do with it.
00:52:22.100 But you also got to give me credit because I called that this would be exactly how he
00:52:25.200 would answer it.
00:52:25.220 Because I asked Crystal yesterday.
00:52:26.300 It's a democracy.
00:52:27.200 Yes, we have a fringe, inflammatory rhetoric, blah, blah, blah.
00:52:30.920 I was like, how is he going to square that?
00:52:32.600 Because it's true.
00:52:33.340 But I had not.
00:52:34.480 I didn't put myself in the mind of Bibi to be like, yes, we have free speech. 0.62
00:52:38.460 We have a vibrant society where we allow such things.
00:52:41.220 But I mean, to Francis's credit, he was like, no, it would be like somebody else.
00:52:47.440 You want me to pause it because they gave you credit?
00:52:49.060 Yeah, exactly.
00:52:49.940 You know what, mate?
00:52:50.540 I take it back.
00:52:51.180 He's all right.
00:52:53.460 Crystal fair enough, mate. 0.98
00:52:54.760 Saga, if you're watching this, we'll go for a beer.
00:52:57.480 Non-alcoholic, probably.
00:52:59.960 It would be like somebody else using Ilhan Omar's statements.
00:53:03.540 I mean, yeah, you could say that.
00:53:04.540 Be like, look, we have 435 members of Congress. 0.99
00:53:06.860 One of them, Marjorie Taylor Greene or Ilhan, they say some crazy shit sometimes, whatever. 0.94
00:53:10.620 But that is not the same whenever those people are actually in power, members of the government. 0.96
00:53:16.640 Members who—
00:53:17.340 And when the government policy reflects their desire.
00:53:20.320 And then government policy reflects their desire to the point where they're handing out weapons in the West Bank and or U.S. dollars,
00:53:28.880 which they then use to prop up their expansionist regime.
00:53:33.320 Yeah.
00:53:33.540 That's very different than, oh, we have free speech.
00:53:37.220 Yeah.
00:53:37.560 This is the thing about Bibi. 1.00
00:53:38.680 He's the master.
00:53:39.880 It's not like he has always, in his perfect Philadelphia-born English, you know, he understands which parts are distasteful, you know, to the U.S. public.
00:53:50.100 And so in English, he does not endorse any of this stuff.
00:53:52.580 But again, Google—in the age of Google Translate and AI, if I will, you can easily dub the stuff he says in Hebrew, and it's the same stuff.
00:54:02.040 That's right.
00:54:02.460 That's the stuff that drives me crazy, too.
00:54:04.380 Yeah, and that's part of what I think the framing of the question—I have all kinds of issues with the framing of the question.
00:54:09.940 First of all, the idea that Israel just has a PR problem is just disgusting, in my opinion, genocide.
00:54:15.680 We're going to get to that with Meghan.
00:54:17.060 She said that, too. 0.78
00:54:17.800 She's like, the Palestinians are masters of propaganda. 1.00
00:54:20.660 And that, you know, oh, the problem is just this incendiary rhetoric.
00:54:25.440 And why don't you do more to condemn this incendiary rhetoric?
00:54:29.020 Well, because he supports it.
00:54:30.920 Because he is the one implementing and pushing forward the policy that they want to see.
00:54:36.420 I mean, we're talking right now as Gaza City is—
00:54:39.240 Was there more you want to—
00:54:40.600 No, no, no.
00:54:41.340 Is that it?
00:54:42.020 You're happy to leave it there?
00:54:43.140 Yeah, that's pretty much it.
00:54:45.300 Apart from when she says that I'm one level above the Nelk boys, that we're one level above the Nelk boys.
00:54:52.140 Well, the Nelk boys have a bigger audience, so what are you going to do? 1.00
00:54:55.380 But I found that very interesting because her criticisms of me and for us is the framing of the question.
00:55:00.460 The framing of the question refers to a comment that Benjamin Netanyahu said and was talking about literally before that.
00:55:08.680 That's why we framed the question.
00:55:10.880 Yeah, but she hasn't seen the interview, so how could she know that?
00:55:14.200 So you're just going—you're making criticisms about the way that we're presenting the interview
00:55:19.080 and the questions that we are putting forward for an interview that you haven't watched.
00:55:24.840 So how can you possibly criticize?
00:55:27.060 But again, what it goes back to is the lack of journalistic rigor, number one.
00:55:34.980 But also—and this is a problem with journalism.
00:55:37.920 And it reminds me of comedians when they only played to the comedians at the back of the room
00:55:44.420 and they didn't care about the audience.
00:55:48.000 And you're going, you want us to behave in a way so that I look for your approval.
00:55:55.280 I look for the approval of the people who despise and hate Israel or Benjamin Netanyahu or condemn his actions,
00:56:05.120 which, fair enough, you are more than welcome to that.
00:56:08.940 But here's the thing.
00:56:10.620 I am not, and we are not going to conduct an interview, seeking your approval.
00:56:15.340 I don't care about your approval.
00:56:17.420 It doesn't interest me, actually, one way or another.
00:56:21.260 However, what we care about here is going after the truth and exposing the person sitting in front of us.
00:56:29.180 And again, not exposing him to be a far-right big or whatever else,
00:56:32.780 to expose the way he thinks, how he thinks, and why he thinks the way that he does.
00:56:37.300 And treating the audience like adults for them to make their own mind up.
00:56:41.960 You know, and it speaks to a comment that a very good friend of mine who will remain nameless
00:56:46.280 because I think he'd probably prefer to still have a career.
00:56:49.660 He messaged me.
00:56:50.720 He called me afterwards when the interview came out.
00:56:52.840 And he said, you know something, I've understood something that I hadn't quite thought of before,
00:56:57.220 which is the entire Western world, particularly people like this,
00:57:01.760 because we're kind of like doing queers for Palestine at scale.
00:57:11.760 In other words, we are people who are sitting in comfort and safety
00:57:16.700 and having all of these very clever, sophisticated opinions about a country
00:57:24.060 that actually is fighting for its survival.
00:57:26.780 That's what's happening.
00:57:27.860 And if something like October 7th had happened on Crystal's doorstep,
00:57:37.380 I don't imagine she'd be taking the position that she's taking.
00:57:41.600 No.
00:57:42.580 And this is, when we talk to Netanyahu, this is one of the things that I go,
00:57:45.880 and people can like or dislike it, but it's a fact.
00:57:48.440 I think he sees himself as the leader of his people at a time when he has a choice
00:57:54.740 between allowing their destruction or ensuring their survival.
00:57:59.380 That's what's happened.
00:58:00.880 And you can agree with that.
00:58:02.700 You can disagree with that.
00:58:03.960 But that is where he's coming at it from.
00:58:05.920 And you've got to understand his history.
00:58:07.220 I mean, I think he was in the Special Forces.
00:58:09.360 His brother died in an anti-terrorist hostage rescue mission.
00:58:14.760 He himself served.
00:58:15.800 So this isn't a guy who did PPE at Oxford and then went into politics.
00:58:23.180 This is a guy who's been fighting for Israel his entire life.
00:58:28.340 And, you know, I tried to get out of him in our interview,
00:58:31.840 but you can see it wasn't going anywhere, which is like,
00:58:33.800 how did you feel when October...
00:58:35.340 There was no feeling there at all.
00:58:36.620 You got the decision.
00:58:38.040 You know, it's so interesting.
00:58:45.300 I spoke to a number of people who are not remotely political
00:58:48.240 who watched that interview, and they all said the same thing.
00:58:51.540 Do you know what they said?
00:58:52.340 It's weird.
00:58:53.400 It's weird.
00:58:53.960 And this will be unpleasant to a lot of people to hear
00:58:56.100 who don't agree with what Israel is doing.
00:58:57.720 They all said the same thing.
00:58:59.160 This is what a prime minister looks like.
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00:59:18.460 But from January the 21st through July 21st,
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00:59:25.480 President Trump loves Bitcoin, so it must have performed well, right?
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01:00:40.260 And the truth is, man, and this is the truth.
01:00:45.720 If our country, this country, was in danger in the way that Israel was, 0.95
01:00:51.880 do you want Keir Starmer in charge?
01:00:55.100 Or do you want Benjamin Netanyahu?
01:00:56.720 I know which one I'm picking.
01:00:59.200 You know what I mean?
01:01:00.220 And so I just think a lot of this is people, as I've said many, many times before,
01:01:05.360 in air-conditioned studios having opinions about things that they demonstrably don't understand
01:01:10.480 from this excessive empathy and an inability to contextualize things in history.
01:01:17.860 And also to actually, you know,
01:01:19.480 empathy is partly about putting yourselves in the shoes of other people.
01:01:22.480 Well, put yourselves in the shoes of people who have to live next door to the people who committed
01:01:27.380 October the 7th.
01:01:29.020 How might you be thinking?
01:01:30.460 What might you be demanding on the airwaves on your big YouTube channel?
01:01:33.280 What might you be asking for?
01:01:35.000 We saw it with 9-11.
01:01:36.500 I don't remember a measured response.
01:01:38.360 No.
01:01:39.000 I don't remember people being all that concerned about innocent Iraqis,
01:01:42.820 and especially in America.
01:01:43.560 In Britain, we really pushed back against them as much as we could.
01:01:46.640 And Tony Blair was bullied into it, I believe, and went along with it.
01:01:50.000 In America, there was no such reticence.
01:01:55.500 They attacked us. 0.99
01:01:56.560 We're going to go and destroy the people who did. 0.98
01:01:58.420 Now, I don't think they handled it very well. 0.99
01:02:00.840 But I also am not a hypocrite enough to sit here and be like,
01:02:05.760 well, Israel can't go and destroy the government and organization that did this.
01:02:11.000 And if those people are putting their own civilians in harm's way to win the PR war,
01:02:15.620 that's not Israel's fault.
01:02:16.780 Well, this is, to me, and this is Rob Henderson's idea,
01:02:22.300 and we've had him on the show many times, and it's a luxury belief.
01:02:26.580 It's a luxury belief.
01:02:28.280 If you had, if America had Hezbollah firing rockets from Mexico... 0.74
01:02:34.240 There would be no Mexico. 0.99
01:02:35.060 Yeah.
01:02:35.620 It would just be a glass sheet.
01:02:38.080 Yeah.
01:02:38.840 There would be no Mexico. 0.99
01:02:40.040 Yeah.
01:02:40.220 And what's very interesting, and people may not know this, is so Hezbollah,
01:02:45.900 they're a terrorist, but they're also a drug-running organization.
01:02:50.460 There, in Venezuela, Venezuela has very close links with Iran.
01:02:54.400 It has very close links with Russia, with China, but particularly with Iran.
01:02:58.800 There is a little island off the coast of Venezuela,
01:03:02.060 which is part of Venezuelan territory, called the Island of Margarita.
01:03:05.320 At the moment, there is a Hezbollah training camp in Margarita.
01:03:10.080 That is just open knowledge.
01:03:11.460 Everybody knows that in Venezuela.
01:03:14.160 Trump is going to come down very hard on Venezuela in the next few months and years,
01:03:20.460 and they're talking about it openly and honestly.
01:03:22.620 Now, why is that?
01:03:23.660 Is it because they hate Venezuelans or the Venezuelan people,
01:03:26.140 or is it because they know that there is a direct security risk
01:03:29.260 having a Hezbollah training camp about a three-and-a-half-hour flight
01:03:33.340 away from Florida and Miami?
01:03:35.720 It's very simple.
01:03:37.700 And this idea that, and this is why, and I understand with America,
01:03:41.520 because if you live in a nation as powerful and as geographically isolated
01:03:45.120 as the United States, it gives you a certain,
01:03:48.480 well, why should I care?
01:03:50.020 Why should we get involved?
01:03:51.480 You know, this is awful.
01:03:52.540 And I get that, and I understand that.
01:03:54.340 It's one of the things that makes America so great,
01:03:56.400 is they don't have to worry about being invaded.
01:03:58.180 They don't have to worry about their land being taken over by enemies
01:04:02.140 and their people being destroyed.
01:04:04.100 They don't have to worry about that.
01:04:05.760 Most other countries in the world have to worry about it.
01:04:08.240 Absolutely.
01:04:09.340 But if you live in a country where you have another nation as powerful as Iran
01:04:15.480 using openly genocidal language, wiping off the face of the earth,
01:04:21.280 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, funding terrorist organizations
01:04:25.260 that fire rockets into your country, 0.95
01:04:28.180 that also fund Hamas,
01:04:32.140 and who then commit the atrocities that was October the 7th,
01:04:38.700 Iran directly funds Hamas.
01:04:41.760 You can make a very good, strong argument
01:04:44.480 that essentially Iran indirectly or directly,
01:04:48.100 actually directly funded October 7th.
01:04:50.240 By all accounts, by the way, just while we're on that,
01:04:54.380 just to be clear, by all accounts, what we know, I think so far,
01:04:57.940 is they did not know that it was specifically going to happen,
01:05:02.280 but they were aware of a general plan.
01:05:04.520 Absolutely.
01:05:05.180 And if you give money to an organization that openly advocates
01:05:09.240 for wiping Israel off the map, 0.52
01:05:11.560 I doubt you'd wake up the next day,
01:05:13.580 so October the 7th, and I'm like,
01:05:14.880 oh, that was a bit of an overreaction.
01:05:18.240 And it's just so obvious.
01:05:22.200 Like, the suffering in Gaza...
01:05:23.700 So people, what people tend to do is they go,
01:05:25.300 look at the suffering in Gaza,
01:05:27.120 therefore, and then they make a bunch of
01:05:29.180 completely unconnected statements.
01:05:30.980 The suffering in Gaza is awful.
01:05:32.620 It's awful.
01:05:34.000 It's terrible.
01:05:35.460 I'm a...
01:05:36.040 You know, people...
01:05:36.900 I never used to understand why people would say this
01:05:38.700 before I became a parent.
01:05:40.300 When you become a parent,
01:05:42.100 you experience a kind of very...
01:05:45.980 I was going to say very powerful.
01:05:47.460 It's not very powerful.
01:05:49.960 Overwhelming, debilitating vulnerability.
01:05:52.320 And when...
01:05:54.440 This is why when you see politicians go to the scene
01:05:56.960 of a mass shooting,
01:05:57.880 as we've tragically just had in America,
01:05:59.580 as we're recording this, or whatever,
01:06:00.680 and they always say,
01:06:01.760 I'm a parent to the parents.
01:06:03.560 And what they're trying to communicate is,
01:06:05.520 I understand your pain.
01:06:07.520 Because I can imagine,
01:06:09.060 because it's every parent's worst nightmare.
01:06:11.440 Of course.
01:06:13.620 I can't understand,
01:06:16.660 but I can just about imagine what it's like 0.98
01:06:19.120 to have your family killed. 0.86
01:06:20.380 And I know people in Ukraine 0.62
01:06:21.880 who've had that happen.
01:06:23.040 It's awful.
01:06:24.420 But the question you have to ask is,
01:06:26.800 why is this continuing?
01:06:29.320 Why is it still going on?
01:06:31.420 This could have ended.
01:06:32.640 This could have ended on October the 8th,
01:06:34.280 for God's sake.
01:06:35.180 All Hamas had to do 0.98
01:06:36.520 was return the hostages that they stole,
01:06:39.540 the people they stole from Israel, 0.70
01:06:41.940 many of whom have died,
01:06:43.800 and the remaining ones of whom
01:06:45.400 are being held in horrific conditions
01:06:46.960 and being forced to dig their own graves,
01:06:48.480 for God's sake,
01:06:49.600 and surrender the terrorists who took them.
01:06:51.880 That's all they had to do.
01:06:53.500 And they haven't.
01:06:54.660 And they still don't.
01:06:55.800 They could end this war tomorrow, 0.60
01:06:57.580 and they don't.
01:06:59.180 Why is that?
01:07:00.580 That's the question you have to ask.
01:07:01.880 Why do the people who have the ability
01:07:04.120 to end this war today
01:07:06.040 refuse to do so,
01:07:08.100 even though it means
01:07:09.000 tens of thousands of their fellow citizens
01:07:11.320 being killed?
01:07:12.640 Is it possible that they care more
01:07:14.220 about their political goals
01:07:15.380 than they do care about those civilians?
01:07:18.200 Absolutely.
01:07:19.120 And this is what the people,
01:07:20.680 this is what people refuse to talk about
01:07:22.840 when they talk about this.
01:07:24.000 It's why I find myself getting so frustrated
01:07:26.620 when,
01:07:27.700 and they also compare,
01:07:30.700 because there are extremists
01:07:31.940 on the Israeli side.
01:07:32.920 Let's just be honest about it.
01:07:33.960 Of course.
01:07:34.480 There's extremists on the Israeli side.
01:07:36.620 You know,
01:07:36.940 I've been reading about the settlers.
01:07:38.440 That is something
01:07:39.140 I am not very comfortable with.
01:07:40.620 Me neither.
01:07:41.160 At all.
01:07:41.680 And I don't think you are,
01:07:42.720 and there's a lot of people
01:07:43.620 who are pro-Israel
01:07:44.360 who think that,
01:07:45.600 actually,
01:07:46.140 the behavior by the settlers
01:07:47.220 is not good.
01:07:50.000 It's not good.
01:07:50.880 You look at some of the language
01:07:52.000 used by Smotrich and Ben-Gavir.
01:07:54.040 I condemn that language.
01:07:55.600 I condemn that language.
01:07:56.900 Absolutely.
01:07:57.980 No uncertain terms.
01:07:59.080 Which is why
01:08:00.020 we made the decision
01:08:01.020 to challenge.
01:08:03.480 Challenge Benjamin Netanyahu about it.
01:08:05.260 And we felt that was important.
01:08:07.800 But you can't tell me
01:08:09.480 the extremism is the same
01:08:11.680 on both sides.
01:08:12.560 You cannot tell me
01:08:14.160 that the extremism of the settlers
01:08:16.200 is equal to the extremism
01:08:18.780 of October 7th.
01:08:20.440 It's not.
01:08:21.060 You can't tell me that.
01:08:22.220 It's not.
01:08:23.620 It's not.
01:08:24.920 It's not.
01:08:25.300 I mean,
01:08:25.700 these people fundamentally
01:08:27.060 don't understand Islamism.
01:08:29.520 They just don't.
01:08:30.280 And they don't care to.
01:08:31.500 They much prefer to live
01:08:32.860 in a world where all cultures,
01:08:34.200 it's the same moral relativism
01:08:35.520 that we saw from the progressives.
01:08:36.880 this entire time.
01:08:38.300 All cultures are the same. 0.72
01:08:39.300 All cultures are equal. 0.99
01:08:40.000 No, they're fucking not. 0.98
01:08:40.940 No. 0.99
01:08:41.340 They're just not.
01:08:42.800 And if you want to understand
01:08:44.260 how they're not,
01:08:44.940 look at Europe.
01:08:46.980 What happens
01:08:47.780 as the demographics
01:08:48.560 of Europe change the world?
01:08:49.500 Guess what?
01:08:49.960 Sexual assault goes up.
01:08:51.100 I wonder why that is.
01:08:52.580 Is it possible
01:08:53.120 that importing lots of people
01:08:54.360 from cultures
01:08:54.940 that think women 1.00
01:08:55.860 are basically cattle,
01:08:57.660 is it possible
01:08:59.400 that that might increase
01:09:00.900 bad treatment of women 1.00
01:09:03.600 in our country?
01:09:04.220 And people are
01:09:06.220 very uncomfortable
01:09:06.800 about this.
01:09:07.560 I remember I was on a date.
01:09:08.600 I can see you've got
01:09:09.300 some kind of joke.
01:09:09.880 No, no,
01:09:10.420 because it's a true story.
01:09:11.600 It's funny
01:09:11.980 because I was saying,
01:09:13.120 you know,
01:09:13.400 we were talking,
01:09:14.160 I went on a date
01:09:14.800 with this girl
01:09:15.320 and she was like,
01:09:16.640 you know,
01:09:16.980 the,
01:09:17.820 you know,
01:09:18.280 I think it's disgusting
01:09:19.560 how people say
01:09:20.600 old cultures,
01:09:21.640 you know,
01:09:22.060 some cultures
01:09:22.780 are better than others.
01:09:23.500 I'm like,
01:09:24.140 well,
01:09:24.240 where would you rather live?
01:09:25.760 Here,
01:09:26.480 when we're going
01:09:26.900 for a nice
01:09:27.480 Japanese meal
01:09:28.640 in shortage
01:09:29.080 or under Taliban rule?
01:09:31.660 In Afghanistan.
01:09:32.500 In Afghanistan.
01:09:33.360 And that was the end
01:09:34.000 of the day.
01:09:35.960 The day never recovered.
01:09:37.620 It never recovered.
01:09:39.040 But.
01:09:40.000 But that's how people think.
01:09:41.560 They refuse to see this.
01:09:43.300 That's why we've had
01:09:44.700 mass waves
01:09:46.500 of illegal immigration
01:09:47.500 from cultures
01:09:48.220 that we don't want here.
01:09:49.460 Because that's how people think.
01:09:50.960 They think.
01:09:52.140 See,
01:09:52.580 this is the problem,
01:09:53.480 right?
01:09:55.240 This is the central myth
01:09:57.060 that I think
01:09:58.960 liberalism has created.
01:10:01.120 And I'm a big fan
01:10:01.840 of liberalism,
01:10:02.400 but I think this is
01:10:03.060 one of its big flaws.
01:10:04.900 That whole thing
01:10:05.880 about all men
01:10:06.640 are created equal
01:10:07.520 in the U.S. Constitution.
01:10:11.140 What I think
01:10:11.900 it was meant to mean
01:10:12.800 was that all people
01:10:14.120 should be
01:10:14.740 given equal opportunity.
01:10:17.240 Absolutely.
01:10:18.120 Right.
01:10:19.540 But people aren't equal.
01:10:21.640 Oh.
01:10:21.760 And your culture,
01:10:23.420 I mean,
01:10:23.700 it's one of the reasons
01:10:24.360 you want your child
01:10:25.200 to get a good education
01:10:26.280 and you want them
01:10:26.960 to be raised
01:10:27.500 and you want to raise
01:10:28.480 them well,
01:10:28.980 et cetera,
01:10:29.260 because you recognize
01:10:30.520 that a failure
01:10:31.300 to educate them properly
01:10:32.460 and a failure
01:10:32.960 to bring them up properly
01:10:34.820 will make them
01:10:35.760 into a worse person.
01:10:37.640 Right?
01:10:38.100 Now,
01:10:38.420 what if you have
01:10:38.840 a whole culture
01:10:39.580 that's teaching children
01:10:41.420 to be a worse person
01:10:42.660 or a better person?
01:10:44.140 that's what we mean
01:10:45.520 when we say
01:10:46.100 not all cultures are equal 0.99
01:10:47.240 and that's just
01:10:47.920 an observable fact.
01:10:50.020 Yeah.
01:10:50.560 It's just a reality
01:10:51.920 that you can see
01:10:52.660 before you.
01:10:55.000 And this is what people
01:10:56.760 don't want to engage with
01:10:58.240 and the reason
01:10:58.740 they don't want to engage
01:10:59.820 with it
01:11:00.120 is because it's
01:11:00.780 desperately uncomfortable.
01:11:02.160 It's a central myth,
01:11:03.180 like I say.
01:11:03.900 Yeah,
01:11:04.120 it's desperately uncomfortable.
01:11:05.540 It's not particularly pleasant
01:11:06.780 where you have to go.
01:11:09.040 These values
01:11:09.900 are incompatible
01:11:11.300 with our civilization
01:11:12.540 and they are.
01:11:14.460 They just are.
01:11:16.100 If you import
01:11:17.440 a culture,
01:11:18.160 people from a culture
01:11:19.080 who believe
01:11:20.140 that homosexuality 1.00
01:11:21.380 is a sin 0.93
01:11:21.960 and these people 1.00
01:11:23.000 should be executed, 1.00
01:11:24.360 I don't know 1.00
01:11:25.400 how you can have
01:11:26.480 that 0.51
01:11:27.540 and a gay pride parade.
01:11:30.160 I don't know
01:11:30.960 how you have
01:11:31.460 those two things together.
01:11:32.780 Well,
01:11:33.100 you don't.
01:11:34.140 And you can't.
01:11:35.800 And people don't
01:11:36.860 want to admit that.
01:11:38.040 I mean,
01:11:38.660 the gay pride parades
01:11:39.500 are not a massive
01:11:40.520 concern for me.
01:11:41.300 But there's some...
01:11:44.620 Okay,
01:11:44.740 but you know what I mean.
01:11:45.600 I know exactly
01:11:46.080 what you mean,
01:11:46.600 which is if,
01:11:47.740 like,
01:11:48.500 this is the irony,
01:11:49.800 right?
01:11:50.040 It's like,
01:11:50.920 the people that we're
01:11:51.920 talking about
01:11:52.520 would want Crystal Ball 0.98
01:11:53.760 never to show her face
01:11:55.040 in public
01:11:55.460 and never to speak.
01:11:58.300 That's what they want.
01:12:00.080 And yet she's acting
01:12:01.340 like we're the same.
01:12:02.980 We're just not.
01:12:04.480 We just don't.
01:12:05.500 We don't view the world
01:12:06.740 in the same way.
01:12:08.220 We don't.
01:12:08.580 And this comes back
01:12:09.840 to,
01:12:10.740 again,
01:12:11.860 my grandfather
01:12:12.680 was originally
01:12:13.320 a Lebanese heritage.
01:12:14.620 I don't think
01:12:15.820 people in the West
01:12:16.940 understand
01:12:17.800 how deep
01:12:18.820 anti-Semitism
01:12:19.760 runs through
01:12:20.960 the Middle East.
01:12:22.200 And by the way,
01:12:23.260 my grandfather
01:12:23.840 was a Lebanese Christian.
01:12:25.580 A Lebanese Christian.
01:12:26.900 But he was
01:12:27.820 anti-Semitic
01:12:28.780 and hated Israel.
01:12:30.240 Now,
01:12:30.520 if you think
01:12:31.140 that comes from
01:12:31.880 a Lebanese Christian,
01:12:33.880 can you imagine
01:12:34.580 what it comes from?
01:12:35.500 The depths of hatred
01:12:37.740 in other countries
01:12:39.580 with people
01:12:40.820 who are Islamists,
01:12:42.300 they will stop
01:12:43.360 at nothing
01:12:44.000 in order to see
01:12:45.500 Israel wiped off the map. 0.93
01:12:46.840 And you know
01:12:47.160 what's funny about this?
01:12:48.180 I mean,
01:12:48.400 this is the great irony
01:12:49.380 of this whole thing.
01:12:52.680 Muslims understand this.
01:12:54.240 Yeah.
01:12:55.280 Muslims know all this. 0.71
01:12:57.080 That's why
01:12:57.820 the UAE
01:12:58.900 and Saudi Arabia
01:13:00.000 and many,
01:13:01.000 many
01:13:01.220 former Soviet
01:13:02.600 Muslim countries
01:13:03.440 are doing everything
01:13:04.780 within their power
01:13:05.760 to crack down
01:13:06.560 on Islamism.
01:13:07.940 I mean,
01:13:08.140 the UAE
01:13:08.500 and Saudi Arabia
01:13:09.200 are working
01:13:10.080 incredibly hard
01:13:11.280 because they don't have
01:13:12.660 this political correctness 1.00
01:13:13.740 bullshit. 1.00
01:13:14.220 So they're like, 1.00
01:13:14.820 of course,
01:13:15.300 these are the extremists. 1.00
01:13:16.840 These are crazy people, 1.00
01:13:18.100 right? 1.00
01:13:18.580 They're crazy 1.00
01:13:19.240 religious ideologues 1.00
01:13:20.420 who want to take
01:13:20.980 a literal interpretation
01:13:22.060 of the Quran
01:13:22.500 and destroy 0.82
01:13:23.120 our entire society
01:13:24.140 and turn this
01:13:25.060 into a caliphate
01:13:25.900 because that's what
01:13:26.740 they see as
01:13:27.520 the Quran saying,
01:13:28.880 right?
01:13:29.980 And they know this,
01:13:31.120 so they fight it.
01:13:32.680 They resist it.
01:13:34.440 But Western people
01:13:36.380 are the ones
01:13:37.220 that are pretending
01:13:37.940 it's not.
01:13:38.320 It's amazing.
01:13:38.960 I follow all these
01:13:39.920 Muslim influencers
01:13:40.960 on Twitter
01:13:41.460 that I speak to
01:13:42.320 who are working
01:13:43.660 extremely hard
01:13:44.820 to get their societies
01:13:46.460 to actually,
01:13:48.260 I was going to use
01:13:48.900 the word progressive,
01:13:49.820 tainted by recent
01:13:51.040 political movements,
01:13:51.980 but like,
01:13:52.720 that are actually moving
01:13:53.820 towards a much more
01:13:55.360 sensible direction
01:13:57.340 in places like the UAE
01:13:59.740 and places like Saudi Arabia,
01:14:01.340 in places like Uzbekistan
01:14:02.560 and others,
01:14:03.180 right?
01:14:03.800 And they're not doing so
01:14:04.820 because they believe
01:14:05.820 in democracy.
01:14:06.500 They don't believe
01:14:07.440 in democracy.
01:14:08.640 These are authoritarian
01:14:09.440 countries,
01:14:10.280 but they're doing it
01:14:11.420 because they know,
01:14:12.940 they know that Islamism
01:14:14.920 is not compatible
01:14:15.900 with Muslim countries
01:14:17.140 ruled in a kind
01:14:18.600 of normal way
01:14:19.380 because it just doesn't work
01:14:20.920 because these people
01:14:21.660 want a theocratic,
01:14:23.160 fascist state
01:14:24.280 covering the entire
01:14:25.340 Middle East
01:14:25.780 and as much of the rest
01:14:26.740 of the world
01:14:27.060 as they possibly can
01:14:27.940 and they will stop
01:14:29.080 at nothing to achieve it.
01:14:30.100 That's not compatible
01:14:32.220 with anything.
01:14:33.040 It's not even compatible
01:14:33.820 with a Muslim country.
01:14:35.260 No.
01:14:35.480 That's why they're fighting it
01:14:36.420 and yet you have these people
01:14:37.800 pretending
01:14:38.440 that that's not the case.
01:14:40.900 And that's why,
01:14:41.980 another reason why they fight it
01:14:43.620 is because more Muslims 0.83
01:14:44.480 die at the hands 1.00
01:14:46.720 of Islamic fundamentalists 0.99
01:14:47.860 than anybody else.
01:14:48.660 Right, of course.
01:14:49.760 Because there is a civil war
01:14:51.000 happening within the Muslim world 1.00
01:14:52.360 between the extremists
01:14:53.880 and the rest.
01:14:54.640 the people who believe
01:14:56.500 in nation states,
01:14:57.860 you know,
01:14:58.080 authoritarially ruled
01:14:59.120 by monarchies mostly
01:15:00.060 but nonetheless,
01:15:01.280 right,
01:15:02.220 and the extremists.
01:15:03.360 You've got these two sides
01:15:04.460 and no one in the Muslim world 0.60
01:15:05.940 is pretending
01:15:06.640 that this isn't happening.
01:15:08.460 Yeah.
01:15:08.720 Because you have to have 0.98
01:15:09.540 no brain 0.96
01:15:10.180 to pretend it.
01:15:11.840 But if you have no knowledge
01:15:13.060 of this entire situation
01:15:14.280 you just go,
01:15:14.760 oh, it's the same
01:15:15.640 and blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:15:17.000 I'd push back on that.
01:15:18.260 I don't think it's because 0.98
01:15:19.060 they have no brain. 0.98
01:15:20.000 I think it's because 1.00
01:15:20.800 they have imbibed an ideology
01:15:22.240 and a worldview
01:15:23.020 which means that
01:15:24.460 they simply cannot understand
01:15:26.460 and see.
01:15:28.100 They are blind
01:15:28.840 to the nuances.
01:15:30.180 What's the difference
01:15:30.760 between that
01:15:31.160 and what I said?
01:15:33.600 Because I think it's worse.
01:15:37.380 I genuinely do.
01:15:39.240 I think it's worse
01:15:40.560 because if somebody
01:15:41.580 doesn't have the intellectual capacity
01:15:43.000 to understand something
01:15:44.120 I think that's forgivable.
01:15:45.660 Yeah, that's true.
01:15:46.540 Whereas I think
01:15:47.280 if someone is willingly blind
01:15:49.180 and doesn't want to
01:15:51.520 or ignores it
01:15:52.860 I think that's willful
01:15:54.400 and that's far worse.
01:15:56.540 Yeah, I think the truth is
01:15:58.280 though that myth
01:15:58.880 is breaking down very quickly
01:16:00.300 and I think
01:16:00.940 we're not going to be
01:16:01.500 we're not going to be able
01:16:02.780 to pretend that everyone
01:16:03.720 is the same for much longer
01:16:04.820 just because it doesn't work.
01:16:06.480 No.
01:16:07.000 It doesn't work in practice
01:16:08.100 and I think that's what
01:16:08.780 we're seeing in Britain.
01:16:09.640 I think that's what
01:16:10.100 we're seeing across Europe.
01:16:12.360 We're seeing it everywhere now.
01:16:14.420 People are,
01:16:15.400 you know,
01:16:15.920 I think it was again
01:16:17.500 a brilliant Thomas Sow line
01:16:19.280 which is you can ignore
01:16:20.220 reality.
01:16:21.120 you can't ignore
01:16:22.280 the consequences
01:16:22.960 of ignoring reality
01:16:23.980 and that's where we are.
01:16:25.660 That's exactly where we are
01:16:26.680 and I actually think
01:16:27.740 with some of the,
01:16:29.380 you know,
01:16:29.660 like I've had a couple
01:16:30.780 of gigs cancelled
01:16:31.620 and I've had people
01:16:32.800 really push back.
01:16:33.660 I've had people send me
01:16:34.420 actually quite
01:16:35.520 unpleasant messages
01:16:37.560 saying horrible things to me
01:16:39.980 but I think
01:16:41.300 now what this conversation
01:16:43.040 has actually showed me
01:16:44.120 is that
01:16:45.300 I think the reason
01:16:46.800 the pushback
01:16:47.460 is so vehement
01:16:48.240 is because deep down
01:16:49.840 that they know it.
01:16:51.480 You wouldn't get this angry
01:16:53.260 if you didn't realise
01:16:54.840 that something was amiss
01:16:56.260 with your line of argument.
01:16:57.880 You wouldn't get this furious,
01:16:59.780 you wouldn't get this censorious
01:17:01.140 if you didn't
01:17:02.380 at some
01:17:03.060 deep emotional level
01:17:05.320 understand
01:17:06.000 that your argument
01:17:07.300 was deeply flawed
01:17:08.380 and it was being exposed
01:17:10.120 day in and day out.
01:17:11.220 you can't keep
01:17:13.040 going down this path
01:17:14.220 and you can't keep
01:17:15.840 advocating these positions
01:17:17.140 without being aware
01:17:18.320 that actually
01:17:19.600 what is really going on
01:17:21.300 is you effectively
01:17:22.300 signing
01:17:22.780 your own civilisation's
01:17:24.260 death warrant
01:17:24.680 which is what I think
01:17:25.720 we're going to be saying.
01:17:28.700 That was a nice
01:17:29.500 positive point
01:17:30.140 to end on, mate.
01:17:31.240 It is what it is.
01:17:33.420 I was arrested
01:17:34.420 for holding
01:17:35.460 one of the most
01:17:36.080 basic fundamental truths
01:17:37.640 that we've known forever.
01:17:38.780 children are not born
01:17:40.440 in the wrong body.
01:17:41.940 Their immediate instinct
01:17:43.040 was to call us fascists
01:17:44.540 and Chris asked
01:17:45.320 well what about
01:17:45.780 our free speech
01:17:46.440 we have a right
01:17:46.920 to freedom of speech
01:17:47.500 here, don't we?
01:17:48.500 And the police said
01:17:49.040 it doesn't work
01:17:49.500 like that here.
01:17:50.340 And we were arrested
01:17:51.020 strip searched
01:17:52.500 put in cells
01:17:54.720 for a few hours
01:17:55.520 and then we were
01:17:55.860 Why were you strip searched?
01:17:57.680 If I get criminal charges
01:17:58.760 it will change my life
01:18:00.520 quite substantially
01:18:01.540 it's quite a high cost
01:18:02.500 for free speech.
01:18:03.820 It's not good.
01:18:04.680 It's not.
01:18:05.460 It's not good at all.
01:18:08.780 It's not.
01:18:10.260 It's not.
01:18:11.840 It's not.
01:18:12.700 It's not.
01:18:13.340 It's not.
01:18:17.620 It's not.
01:18:24.460 It's not.
01:18:24.880 It's not.