TRIGGERnometry - Ryan Long： Comedy vs. Culture Wars

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster.

00:00:07.800 I'm Constantine Kishin.

00:00:09.000 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:00:14.540 I'm delighted to say our brilliant guest today is the comedian Ryan Long.

00:00:17.660 Ryan, welcome to Trigonometry.

00:00:19.260 Thank you for having me, guys.

00:00:21.020 Listen, man, it's great to have you on.

00:00:22.560 A lot of our audience have been clamoring for us to talk to you

00:00:25.560 because you've been putting out some great stuff during the last year,

00:00:29.060 the pandemic, etc. Before we dive into all of that, talk about comedy and more. Tell everybody

00:00:34.220 a little bit about who are you? How are you where you are? What has been your journey through life

00:00:38.420 that leads you here? Cool. So when I was pretty young, I was in like a pretty successful band in

00:00:45.860 Canada. And then I kind of was doing all these DVDs, jackass kind of style stuff. And Tom Green

00:00:50.960 was huge for me. And then I ended up doing a TV show in Canada kind of based on that stuff. And

00:00:57.680 I was doing all these DVDs with the band and stuff.

00:01:00.240 In that time, I started doing comedy.

00:01:02.000 So that would have been like 11 or 12 years ago.

00:01:03.800 I started doing stand-up and I was doing TV shows and sketch comedy.

00:01:07.320 And I did a series at the CBC.

00:01:09.680 I built up the video department for the thing, a website called The Hard Times.

00:01:13.880 Then I moved to America about a year and a half ago,

00:01:16.960 kind of right before the pandemic and started doing my own stuff here.

00:01:19.480 And then now I'm just kind of doing my own YouTube channel

00:01:21.820 and touring and stuff as a comic.

00:01:23.920 And you're crushing it.

00:01:25.080 And one of the things I found really interesting is a lot of your stuff at the moment is people would say is political.

00:01:30.860 You talk about woke culture, some of the flaws with that way of thinking.

00:01:35.400 You've talked about the restrictions around lockdowns and the pandemic.

00:01:38.980 But actually, you say you're someone who's not political in the sense you don't care who the president is, etc.

00:01:43.540 Is that broadly accurate?

00:01:45.840 Yeah, I think, I mean, there's a lot of people that are probably in a similar position in that I talk about culture.

00:01:54.660 And that's what I talk about. And I think most importantly, I talk about people and the psychology of people and, you know, stuff like that. And politics has infiltrated every single facet of the world. Right. I mean, especially during the Trump years, there wasn't anyone that wasn't talking about all that stuff. Right. So it's impossible to separate the two.

00:02:13.800 So it's not that I'm completely, you know, it's impossible to ignore.

00:02:20.660 And I went through when I was in university, I went to school for economics and I went

00:02:24.000 through my phase where I was in, you know, very and all that stuff.

00:02:27.720 And I had my perspective or whatever.

00:02:29.760 And then it kind of it came back around now.

00:02:33.360 But I think a lot of times there's there's there are some people that really are part

00:02:40.340 of, you know, we want our side to win.

00:02:42.280 And I think that I'm usually talking about that stuff, but more importantly, I'm talking

00:02:45.780 about the psychology of the people that are like that.

00:02:48.680 So even in my videos, like when you talk, if you, you mentioned that I mentioned, I

00:02:51.960 talk about, you know, cancel culture, woke stuff or whatever, let's say that's one of

00:02:55.200 the things, right.

00:02:56.120 I'm generally talking about the type of person that does that, you know, and, and the psychology

00:03:00.820 behind them and what they do.

00:03:02.140 And I think that's kind of generally what I'm poking fun of.

00:03:05.160 One of the things that you just to kind of elaborate on that or whatever, but one of

00:03:08.460 the things i think i was thinking about a lot this week is and this is why it's gotten like this is

00:03:16.580 because there's probably i don't know if you saw this but glenn danzig who's like the the misfits

00:03:22.060 guy he's like a big punk guy he kind of came out and he said that you know his songs wouldn't be

00:03:26.520 able to be made but right now or punk wouldn't have happened because of you know woke bullshit

00:03:29.780 is what he said and obviously the the punk community flipped out and everyone you know

00:03:34.420 he's just old he don't get it whatever it is right and it's kind of and by the way the lyrics of it

00:03:39.960 were you know i'm gonna rape your mom and stuff like that so it was i don't even know why it would

00:03:44.200 be you know they don't like the way he said that but it's pretty obvious that yes for sure that

00:03:48.160 couldn't have happened right now like none of them would have been for it but all those a lot

00:03:51.860 of those people like that band and i think that once you control people's identity you kind of

00:03:56.940 control everything about them so let's say i go i'm a punk or i'm a i'm a this and then all once

00:04:02.360 people think that then all you have to say is well guess what people who are that think this

00:04:07.480 and I think that's kind of you know I've even said you know like guys like Brad Weinstein and

00:04:12.600 stuff like that how they're always having that conversation you know I'm actually a liberal but

00:04:17.240 you know the word liberal has changed a lot and these words always change right so I think that's

00:04:22.700 why I never really attach myself to I'm this or I'm that because they change every two years

00:04:26.740 and you know realistically who you are is you know going to change at a slow pace but things

00:04:34.340 can change rapidly and if the words that define you are how you see yourself the most important

00:04:39.080 thing then you're just beholden to other people's definitions of who you are and I think that's

00:04:43.660 where a lot of people are at right now. It's a very interesting point you make Ryan now let's

00:04:49.320 be honest in the comedy industry most people would describe themselves as liberal you know

00:04:55.100 in inverted commas as it were do you think that's where the industry is now and how do you see

00:05:01.800 yourself in the industry well so even to go back to my original point you said most people in

00:05:06.640 entertainment or comedy whatever describe themselves as liberal like so is that because

00:05:11.360 most people that are liberal get into entertainment or was it because once you get into entertainment

00:05:15.280 that's a requirement is that you're this they go well if you're if you're an artist you're obviously

00:05:19.320 this so people go okay because they didn't want to lose the identity that they're an artist so if

00:05:24.880 you said hey I want to be in a punk band and you go well all punks think this you go okay well I'm

00:05:29.240 that now you know so that became like a secondary term that got attached to people that want the

00:05:34.300 first you know want to be able to attach the first identity to themselves do you think it's become

00:05:40.060 more intolerant though because before like when I started comedy disclosure in 2009 and it was a

00:05:46.640 very very different landscape back then back then it was you know more to do everybody wanted to be

00:05:52.820 sort of like a shock jock comedian yeah the edgy era yeah yeah say the most outrageous not your

00:06:00.000 grandmother's comedy let me tell you i'm sorry exactly whereas now it seems we've got we flipped

00:06:10.080 over completely on the in the other side yeah i think that there's probably a good um it's probably

00:06:18.300 worth making the definition between mainstream comedy and comedy. So, I mean, yeah, if you're

00:06:24.100 talking about like Hollywood and movies and TV shows that are made by the, you know, corporate

00:06:29.020 comedy industry, yeah, they've got a very specific perspective. But then there's also a counterculture

00:06:34.160 that, you know, is kind of against that, which, you know, you guys would be part of. You have an

00:06:37.780 audience. I'm doing very well. So there's always a counterculture. And a lot of times things were

00:06:42.680 originally a counterculture. And you can even see what we're talking about. Okay, so

00:06:46.560 perfect example that was sort of like a hipster counterculture at one point being

00:06:53.020 you know uh against america it was almost like a mix between libertarian and you know kind of edgy

00:06:59.640 liberals right where we're against the government and we're you know against racism whatever like

00:07:05.040 you know all that kind of stuff right and then now you saw you still kind of see this counterculture

00:07:11.280 and you probably say the biggest person in that field would be like joe rogan you know i would say

00:07:15.280 that's the the biggest person in that whole field and he's made a lot of careers or whatever

00:07:19.660 so if you now look at that you'll see fox news and places like that kind of attaching themselves

00:07:25.600 to that counterculture right so and then you know they're trying to say it's a right left thing but

00:07:29.840 it's not it's always a kind of freedom worth authoritarian thing right and you'll see other

00:07:34.320 people the same way that they attach them like the whatever mainstream corporate america attached

00:07:39.540 themselves to that and you see the same reason you see that you know axe body sprays got ads

00:07:44.280 about racism or whatever it is right when you know what were they they were literally the

00:07:48.740 you know company three years ago that was like you know have sex at a frat you know that was

00:07:53.220 their motto basically right so it all it changes and you'll see that other people that sort of take

00:08:00.120 what movements are and it happened and then uh chew them up and spit them out and it happened

00:08:05.040 it's it happens most purely in music but in comedy it probably happens more pronounced because

00:08:11.440 in comedy the the your opinions are the product a lot of times right so what your opinions are

00:08:18.140 are the product so once they kind of co-op that then they then they own everything and all they

00:08:22.580 have to be is like what were all those kids saying that it's been going popular oh yeah we're that

00:08:26.700 now well i i really think it's funny to to watch because um you know sometimes you'll say that uh

00:08:35.320 let's say i'm i assume you guys are always a you know a lot against the people that are clamping

00:08:41.000 down on freedoms, especially in speech and all that stuff. And, you know, as am I. And so I did

00:08:47.600 like a Fox thing. Right. And these people, they're very like, you can't say anything anymore. Right.

00:08:53.600 They're kind of saying, you know, what the chewed up and spit out version of what probably people

00:08:58.080 like you were saying, they go, you know, you're not allowed to say anything anymore. I go, first

00:09:01.300 of all, I'm not allowed to swear on this very interview. And I go, go watch a Bill O'Reilly

00:09:05.500 clip from six years ago. It's him interviewing, you know, the insane clown posse being like,

00:09:10.040 but aren't your words hurtful?

00:09:11.700 Like this should not be, you know, exact same thing.

00:09:14.080 It's just repackaged because, you know,

00:09:16.520 they have less power in censorship probably right now.

00:09:21.340 I think you're so right about that.

00:09:23.340 I think there is a lot of sort of jumping on bandwagons

00:09:26.480 from both sides.

00:09:27.780 And that's what I always found quite frustrating.

00:09:29.820 I don't know if people try to do this to you,

00:09:31.960 but I found the moment you start speaking out

00:09:34.560 and going, actually, maybe it is important

00:09:36.460 that people should be able to say what they think

00:09:38.920 or make the jokes of day one,

00:09:40.900 suddenly everyone's like, you're right wing.

00:09:42.760 And I'm like, whoa, how did that happen?

00:09:46.420 When did being for freedom become a right wing thing?

00:09:49.040 Do people-

00:09:49.920 Well, it became when they polarized everything,

00:09:51.620 when they decided that, you know,

00:09:53.040 if you're a liberal, here are the 12 things you think.

00:09:54.920 And if you're a conservative,

00:09:55.800 here are the 12 things you think.

00:09:57.460 And most people aren't like that.

00:09:58.940 Like everyone has their group of friends

00:10:00.580 and maybe this guy's a little this on this issue

00:10:02.820 and everyone sort of talks about things.

00:10:04.480 So the idea that if you're part of this identity,

00:10:07.900 here's the 12 things you think and they do it with race they do it with gender they do it with

00:10:11.340 jobs you know if you're you know the old you know even with people who are against the cops

00:10:16.360 there's this code among cops of like you don't say this to this person and that's kind of how

00:10:21.040 they operate but more importantly it kind of becomes uh with so when you're doing it the

00:10:25.840 other way like what you're talking about when they're trying to shut it down that's that idea

00:10:29.760 that let's make a thing that you're not you don't that it's not acceptable to be and then once we've

00:10:36.460 got on board with that let's put everyone in that group so but they don't update like you know it's

00:10:41.900 the thing they go everyone's conservative that's what they're saying anyone I disagree with is

00:10:45.200 conservative and they kind of know that in their little faction of the world they don't have to

00:10:49.340 tell you why they're wrong all they have to tell you is this and then they already know it's wrong

00:10:52.920 so it's sort of like a cheap way to argue about people with people as you just tell them they're

00:10:56.920 this group that you don't like you know what I mean if imagine you were talking about sports in

00:11:00.520 a bar and I don't know we probably know different teams because I'm you know I'm from Canada and

00:11:05.220 i live in america and you guys are from but the you know if you were team a and you're arguing

00:11:10.260 with the players and you go dude he's a freaking leafs fan he he's not gonna you don't care what

00:11:15.260 he says that's all you would have to say is he's a leafs he's a leafs fan or manchester fan and

00:11:20.060 then his opinion's no longer valid right and then he might be like no i'm not i change it doesn't

00:11:24.140 matter they just so they put you in that box and then the other way is when they're doing it on

00:11:29.660 your side and i think john stewart actually was set a pretty good version of this back in the day

00:11:34.000 that I always kind of think probably summed it up best.

00:11:36.420 He goes, people are always going to weaponize you.

00:11:39.520 So, you know, you'll see the same people

00:11:42.140 get weaponized both ways, like a Bill Maher type.

00:11:44.620 You'll see every now and then liberals being like,

00:11:46.880 look, this is, you know, this is, ah, in your face.

00:11:49.660 And then you'll see the conservatives being like, ah,

00:11:51.640 and he kind of switches back and forth,

00:11:54.460 but everyone likes to use him.

00:11:56.360 And I think for a while, comedians specifically

00:11:59.280 were sort of looked at as an impartial source.

00:12:02.740 so so it can be sort of like if you're trying to make some political point and then you can be

00:12:07.680 look at this comedian even gets it and they're they know that you're wrong whereas i think that's

00:12:12.160 now comedians are probably just as divided as anywhere else and i think that has lost its

00:12:16.580 charm a little bit and do you think we're we're at quite a perilous point for comedy ryan where

00:12:22.060 you see comedians getting canceled people making jokes people having to apologize for things that

00:12:27.380 they said three years ago etc etc so i'm i i think that's probably a example of something that i think

00:12:35.600 a lot of people want me to think that but i i don't like i don't feel like i'm a victim in this

00:12:40.780 scenario i think that listen i was in canada and it's a very small place and it didn't really have

00:12:46.620 enough room for a counterculture i saw a really cool one going on here that i was a part with

00:12:51.060 aligned with what i thought and i thought that it was the stuff i wanted to make i was at places

00:12:55.060 like CBC, which you have the BBC. I wanted to make this kind of stuff and they wouldn't let,

00:12:59.640 you know, it was, I squeaked some through, I made like a libertarian sketch with government money,

00:13:04.180 which I thought was kind of funny. But when I came here, I think comedy is great. And I've been able

00:13:10.400 to create my own platform and all these people. And I think that there's, because there was so

00:13:15.080 many people probably like you or me that maybe 10 years ago, you would have entered the industry

00:13:20.220 system. And you probably would have been more handcuffed than you are now. So I think a better

00:13:25.360 way to describe it is that Hollywood's failing and they're missing this whole thing. And they're,

00:13:30.940 you know, they, they're trying to, they have this big distribution, but they think they can pick

00:13:35.920 people, but they can't, they go, you know, Oh, this guy's the hot comedian or woman's the hot

00:13:39.940 comedian. And anyone has a eyes and a brain is like, what are you talking about? This is a real

00:13:45.580 thing. It's like, you know, it's like if you were running a basketball team and you go,

00:13:49.680 this guy is going to be the star. And then you go, I mean, we can see that they scored no points.

00:13:56.200 Do you know what I mean? I mean, you're things connecting with people because

00:13:59.020 it's probably good. Do you know what I mean? Well, I agree with you, Ryan, but see, this is

00:14:02.900 where I am totally on your side. I found myself on countless TV shows going, no, no, you can still

00:14:09.320 do jokes. Like it's possible, right? The mob of people in a comedy club aren't jumping on stage

00:14:15.040 and dragging you out and beating you with their pink hair or whatever.

00:14:18.840 I'm not, definitely not saying that, right?

00:14:21.120 I mean, it has happened to you.

00:14:23.300 No, but it hasn't. This is the thing, right?

00:14:25.420 So on the one hand, but on the other hand, I also think about this,

00:14:28.640 like you are successful, you've got a platform,

00:14:31.100 we've had some success with this.

00:14:32.540 I mean, it has cost us largely our mainstream comedy career in this country,

00:14:35.800 but who gives a shit, right?

00:14:36.820 Because as you say, it's mostly not very good anyway.

00:14:39.520 But a newer comedian coming through now

00:14:42.740 who's trying to make the bones in the clubs,

00:14:45.460 who's trying to go through.

00:14:47.340 You talk about Canada.

00:14:48.460 In the UK, it's also quite a small market.

00:14:50.700 Everyone knows each other.

00:14:51.800 And if you become known as the comedian

00:14:53.520 that, quote, says the wrong thing

00:14:55.040 or votes the wrong way or has the wrong opinions,

00:14:57.840 that does tend to be quite restrictive.

00:15:00.040 And that's where I've always sort of tried

00:15:02.140 to draw a line between,

00:15:03.860 yeah, if you're Ricky Gervais or whoever,

00:15:06.060 you can do any joke you want

00:15:07.400 because you've got your own audience.

00:15:08.760 You've got your own platform.

00:15:10.220 For a younger, newer comic coming through,

00:15:12.620 I think the climate is very restrictive.

00:15:14.720 Would you agree with me there?

00:15:15.720 Okay, so I've said a version of what you just said as well.

00:15:18.780 And I know what you're saying.

00:15:20.560 It's, for example, you'll see some of these really big comedians

00:15:23.960 kind of say, you can say anything.

00:15:25.380 And you'll, well, you can because you're in a legacy position.

00:15:28.940 And they're sort of somewhat immune to that.

00:15:32.640 But there's pros and cons to both of this

00:15:36.280 is sort of more what I'm saying.

00:15:37.420 Because I'm not negating the fact that, you know,

00:15:40.120 it's very not it's very stressful having all these people come after you you know it's uh it's very

00:15:45.740 difficult you're right uh you're constantly at battle with um how your reputation is perceived

00:15:52.260 with what you actually say and then how people want to say that you are and you're like i'm not

00:15:56.160 that so you're so i think that for one yeah comedy's really hard and all and it always has

00:16:03.160 been so this idea that if you go to back to the what you said about this person that's two years

00:16:07.600 in and they go, well, they can't say anything. And you go, the truth is my advice to those people

00:16:11.880 is you're probably not ready to talk about these topics anyway. So it is very clumsy and there is

00:16:16.840 places you can do. There's always going to be a little scene of edgy boys or whatever. Right.

00:16:20.600 But yeah, it is difficult and it's, it's, it's a different ecosystem to navigate. And I mean,

00:16:27.440 if you go back to Lenny Bruce, he was going to jail for this stuff. And I know that, you know,

00:16:31.380 you have people in, in the UK that have, you know, actually been to jail and there's other,

00:16:36.820 you know people that have been fined like mike ward in canada who's been fined and

00:16:40.520 there is similarities and this is a up and down thing and especially in the trump years it became

00:16:46.300 exceedingly the consequences are high and the rewards can also be high i mean that's why

00:16:52.760 jordan peterson's the biggest intellectual figure of probably our generation right um and then and

00:16:58.980 the rewards on that path also involve freedom which i don't think there was the the biggest

00:17:04.320 version of that seven years ago. So it always depends who you are. So I think a lot of people

00:17:09.480 who value safety and to go back to that freedom safety conversation, like a lot of people who

00:17:13.440 value safety, you're right. This comedy sucks way more than it would before. But if you were someone

00:17:19.300 who kind of considers himself like a, you know, let's say a rebel or counterculture or a troublemaker,

00:17:24.780 I think wherever you went, you'd probably find yourself kind of causing trouble. And so

00:17:30.340 you might maybe it's more attractive to you i don't know so it's just it changed and it's

00:17:36.700 different and probably whether it's better or worse depends on who you are i mean what i i've

00:17:41.820 see both of it because to be honest i am a little bit uh polite i don't know maybe i'm not polite

00:17:47.660 to the right word but like you're canadian ron i'm canadian yeah but i really do see it in a way

00:17:52.980 that i'm i've inserted myself into all these fights and i'm constantly at battle and i'm you

00:17:57.780 know i'm i'm releasing a video every monday sometimes every wednesday too that is causing

00:18:03.140 like a shit storm you know what i mean and you know a part of me um i think there's the americans

00:18:10.920 that's their their culture is way more confrontational like someone bumps into you you go

00:18:15.080 what are you doing what are you looking at like that kind of thing right where i'm a little more

00:18:18.440 so i am sort of you know navigating how to uh make my personality fit with the my propensity to

00:18:26.800 you know, poke the bear and that's all difficult. But at the same time, I'm, you know, going out on

00:18:31.460 weekends and selling out shows. And you said that you pointed out something that for the newer

00:18:35.320 comedian, you know, I wasn't, when I moved to America, I was, I didn't have this. I was part

00:18:40.520 of the legacy system. So I was doing my CBC shows. So my, I don't know, whatever you want,

00:18:45.340 whatever I have right now happened during this. Like I got popular in America in the last year.

00:18:50.720 Do you know what I mean? So that, and it was because of this stuff, you know, because I was

00:18:54.960 standing up to this and so yeah there is only certain people that have the ability to do that

00:18:59.720 and it takes a certain type of character and a certain type of uh resilience and i think a lot

00:19:04.200 of times it does help to have been doing this for a long time because you're really you understand

00:19:08.360 your beliefs and you can defend them from first principles and you're confident what you think and

00:19:12.200 i know how i make videos because you have everyone yelling at you you start to be like

00:19:15.460 am i wrong do i suck you know so i think it it helps to really spend the time to get great at

00:19:22.560 this and it helps to really spend the time to like understand what you think and that's what

00:19:27.660 I'm trying to like continue to do but I think the probably the best answer is that there's pros and

00:19:32.160 cons and that depends on who you are where you are in your career and what your what your like

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00:21:24.280 And Ryan, you said that, you know, you're on CBC

00:21:30.460 You had this mainstream career

00:21:32.320 Why did you step out in that case and do what you're doing?

00:21:37.920 Did you have a road to Damascus moment or was it a gradual thing?

00:21:41.160 well you know you know some of my friends in Canada they're comics you said and

00:21:46.060 obviously they all moved there from it's it's almost like not an option I'm sure you

00:21:50.620 because UK is sort of the other the second place probably after America in terms of you know

00:21:54.980 whatever cultural significance in the English world or whatever right so I mean I'm sure you

00:21:59.660 guys know people from Australia and New Zealand whatever it is that moved to UK it's like it's

00:22:04.460 almost just what you do so I there was and then part of it was because I was doing such aggressive

00:22:10.720 stuff and because of what i was doing there was just no room for that in cbc and i was in places

00:22:16.120 like that and i was just fighting this uphill battle and i knew that i knew that there was

00:22:20.040 something that i wanted to be a part of in america for a long time it just i thought i was ready and

00:22:24.260 it took me two years to get my green card and immigration stuff and all that kind of stuff like

00:22:28.120 that's why they all come to uk because you can immigrate to uk without going through the whole

00:22:31.920 process and immigrating we have we need to build a wall yeah i know a snow wall a snow wall they

00:22:38.240 call that but no you have to there was but i like it better i mean i'm a guy that likes freedom you

00:22:44.320 know i'm sure there's people in canada that have their comfortable you know essentially government

00:22:47.820 subsidized comedy jobs and they like that i didn't want that i wanted to you know kind of be in these

00:22:53.720 more uncharted waters and i liked the renaissance against the like i like watching hollywood burn

00:22:59.240 you know watching hollywood's new shows come out and they suck and you know me and my friends are

00:23:04.920 making stuff that everyone likes and is resonating with them. And I, I think I like the competition

00:23:10.320 element of that. And I, so I think it's cool. And I always, I always knew that I would move here.

00:23:14.640 It was just a matter of when is the right time. And I picked the perfect time right before the

00:23:18.480 country shuts down indefinitely. Yeah. And it's interesting to me, you're talking about it

00:23:22.180 because we feel very similar about our careers. Like we took some risks and we were reaping the

00:23:28.740 rewards. Right. And it's kind of the same with you, but, but the traditional model risk, it is

00:23:33.820 a big risk right you potentially ruin your life like you know what i mean right especially if you

00:23:38.940 know they take the wrong 14 second sound bite i mean like i said i mean you know some people come

00:23:44.260 out of it some people don't i mean i know people in canada that were that have had things happen

00:23:49.100 to them that they didn't do like i know for a fact they didn't do the person eventually admitted

00:23:53.400 they didn't do it and they got so ostracized they got kicked out of their agency they got kicked out

00:23:59.860 of their uh uh manager and the comedy clubs like stopped booking them they got fired from the

00:24:06.500 comedy agency which is the main one that runs all the clubs they essentially like walked into the

00:24:11.620 ocean and just never came back like everyone's like are they gonna commit suicide like it was

00:24:15.900 very sad and you feel bad for those people but that being said if that was someone else they

00:24:20.480 might have been like f you guys like that no you know and someone they might have fought and it

00:24:25.680 just and maybe that would have ended up different for them and they would have developed a different

00:24:29.300 type of audience but depends who you are and depends who your propensity is well this is what

00:24:33.620 i was going to say is uh did you always feel this way because i think it's very easy to feel this

00:24:38.620 way when you are being successful when you have a show that's working when you're putting out

00:24:43.260 videos they're getting hundreds of thousands of views did you feel was there no part of you that

00:24:48.280 you're like at the cbc going well why can't i do countercultural stuff in the mainstream media

00:24:54.220 because 10 15 20 years ago there were people who were doing that in the uk for example right

00:24:58.720 correct yeah was there a part of you that's like well why the fuck why why is this being restricted

00:25:02.320 why do i have to move to another country why can't i do this yeah i think i've probably like

00:25:07.340 you guys went through a bunch of different versions of being mad than not mad yeah i am

00:25:12.280 yeah i think i did go through a lot of those especially near the beginning where you know

00:25:17.860 you start to you go what the why is everyone against me right now you know what i mean i'm

00:25:22.240 doing a show it's the number one thing on your network and i'm being treated like i'm the worst

00:25:27.580 Like, you know, I would have these early on digital anyway, but I was having these all of those things. But in terms of did I always feel like this? I mean, I was the guy that was, you know, kicked out of school and then kicked out of my residence when I went to university and spent most of my high school years in the office and police stations. And do you know what I mean? And then I formed a band and we were the ones that were getting kicked off. I was just I've been a nuisance my entire life probably.

00:25:53.540 is. So if anything, this is probably the most productive nuisance that I've been when I,

00:25:59.180 I essentially, instead of, you know, wrecking my personal life and being a problem in schools and

00:26:05.540 stuff, I think that I've found a way to channel my propensity to be a troublemaker into probably

00:26:12.080 something that's kind of productive and actually makes people feel good. And a lot of people,

00:26:15.980 I think I make them happier. So I think that that's probably a positive move forward in my

00:26:21.900 life but it wasn't a switch I think I was this person since I was four and we're talking about

00:26:28.580 your comedy why do you think it's it's resonated as it has it gets you know it's very very funny

00:26:34.540 it gets hundreds and thousands of views why do you think people latch on to it and share it and

00:26:40.820 enjoy it so much I think that it's a combination of things I liked uh you know Scott Adams you

00:26:49.280 know you guys know scott yeah yeah he's cool right he always kind of talks about this thing where

00:26:53.940 you know you don't have it's not about being the best at things but if you're the best at three

00:26:58.320 things you're sort of the you know the inventing of a new category and i and tim ferris i mean i

00:27:02.700 like those guys like tim ferris in that whole world that kind of was the first people that

00:27:06.560 introduced me to sort of a different way of uh thinking of problem solving i think if that makes

00:27:11.860 sense but with me I think that one if so I'm I was a really good stand-up comic and then I was a

00:27:20.860 really good musician and I spent you know 20 years getting good at making videos right and one of the

00:27:27.880 reasons I was really good at making videos is because I was sort of editing music editing these

00:27:32.740 two three minute sketches like they're little music videos and even the way that I kind of

00:27:37.160 looked at the voice versus the what part of it's the drums and the way that I kind of structure

00:27:42.980 them all like songs. So I kind of invented my own little way to do it. And then on top of that,

00:27:48.020 I think that the comic part where I really spent 11 years honing the ability to sort of like point

00:27:54.500 out one thing, you know, when you're making fun of something like what's the what's really the

00:28:00.060 thing that's wrong with this at its core? You know what I mean? So I think that when I that

00:28:05.960 was the ability to kind of go viral was I was really able to like isolate what's the issue with,

00:28:12.220 with, um, you know, an ideology or a group of people or, uh, or, uh, um, you know, a cultural

00:28:18.720 phenomenon, what's lame about it or what's wrong with it, what's inconsistent about it. And I think

00:28:23.180 so the mix of that versus kind of inventing my own way to make videos, um, and then editing and

00:28:31.000 those that like kind of combination. And then on top of that, sort of being having views that

00:28:36.400 aligned with sort of the cultural renaissance, I think it was the combination of all those things

00:28:42.260 that kind of made my videos unique. It was like, maybe there was people that understand, you know,

00:28:48.360 this cultural stuff a little better than me, but not ones that are anywhere near as good as I am

00:28:52.860 at making videos. And maybe there's people that are good at making videos that aren't as good at

00:28:56.440 really understanding these cultural elements and the comedy element. So I think maybe the reason

00:29:00.920 why my stuff kind of maybe is connecting as a combination of those three things. And at the

00:29:06.880 axis of all those graphs, I might be the best for that little niche anyway.

00:29:12.920 Yeah. Well, that makes sense. You talked a lot about how your videos are causing a bit of a

00:29:17.900 stir or a shitstorm, depending on which one it is. Who is it that's coming after you or having

00:29:23.940 a go at you or unhappy with the videos that you're making? I mean, literally every one.

00:29:30.920 dude people i mean comics a lot of comics is funny when they they get mad at you you know

00:29:36.180 what i mean does that not piss you off because i'm i that always frustrates me like comedians

00:29:41.720 having to go other comedians do you find that frustrating or is it like finally i've made it

00:29:45.800 i've done it now i'm really doing good work i think it would be a third thing where i i really

00:29:51.080 try to be honest about what people think and what their motivations are so i think that even

00:29:58.000 when you're you're doing comedy I think one of the reasons why comedy was getting weird in the

00:30:02.760 mainstream is they were like being dishonest they would make even say like you're making fun of

00:30:06.960 Trump but just be like I'm a stupid idiot you know and it was kind of that's not really what's

00:30:11.820 happening so it was caricatures as opposed to like understanding what so I'd usually try to like

00:30:16.380 understand people's motivations and I mean if I was someone that had some legacy position

00:30:21.800 and then these this group of people come around that are doing something i can't do and it's you

00:30:29.400 know because i can't make that stuff well you know uh basically being part of this club so i can't

00:30:35.540 make that and then it's doing better i think the propensity would be to be like well this shouldn't

00:30:39.980 be happening because how would how else would you be i don't know so i think that a lot of people

00:30:46.060 deal it differently i mean there's a million people that message me and they go you know they

00:30:49.520 love it. Right. A million, a million comics that you'll see some comics kind of get mad. And then

00:30:54.040 I'm like, you're four of your friends like messaged me, you know, and they're, and I know

00:30:58.580 they're lying. I have people that went online and they go, Ryan's videos suck this and that. And I

00:31:03.800 go, my last messages from them was when I was doing the hard times video being like, this is

00:31:08.080 brilliant. You know what I mean? I'm like, I have a message from you three years ago, you saying that

00:31:12.360 I'm like a brilliant filmmaker essentially. And then now, because the topic's something that you

00:31:17.000 disagree with all of a sudden i'm a man that sucks that in three years i went from brilliant

00:31:21.280 i can barely do it so i i think a lot of times if you actually look deeper you kind of it's like

00:31:27.200 when a couple's fighting and it's never about the issue there's always kind of more to it

00:31:30.920 so i think maybe i don't know what do you what do you guys think that is going on with comics do you

00:31:35.620 think that they're actually so wrapped up that they're in the cult or do you think that there

00:31:39.220 is a self-preservation mechanism or a combination or how do you see it i see it as from and look a

00:31:45.580 large part of this stuff is that you know you're projecting all the rest of it I just think they're

00:31:50.360 cunts oh no let's just cut to the chase anyway you mean like they're bitter I I think I think

00:32:03.700 genuinely I think that comedy especially in the UK it encourages a group think it encourages

00:32:10.940 a system or mentality whereby you have to do certain things in order to become successful

00:32:17.040 you get your your five then you get a 10 then you do your comedy watch yeah exactly and then

00:32:23.560 you progress through the clubs and then you do an edinburgh show and then you get divorced yeah

00:32:27.240 all the rest of it and then and part of that is having the right opinions it's being left it's

00:32:32.920 being liberal it's being all the rest of it and then you become weaponized yeah you're just a

00:32:36.720 weapon. Yeah. And then all of a sudden you see somebody who doesn't do that or goes against the

00:32:42.280 grain and becomes successful. It makes you upset and angry because they're doing it and they haven't

00:32:49.260 done it the way you've done it. They haven't done it in inverted commas the right way. Yeah. They

00:32:54.060 haven't followed the methodology that you're supposed to follow. I'll give you an example

00:32:57.800 that you might find this interesting. So my journey really on this sort of thing started

00:33:02.420 at the end of 2018.

00:33:04.760 I was booked to perform at a charity night

00:33:08.140 for a college.

00:33:10.480 And they sent me a contract

00:33:12.060 which said that they had a zero tolerance policy

00:33:15.160 on about 23 different things

00:33:16.980 like racism, sexism, classism, ageism, ableism, homophobia.

00:33:20.600 Ageism is so funny.

00:33:22.260 Yeah, like a whole bunch of them.

00:33:25.560 And when I turned it down,

00:33:27.620 it just randomly became a big news story.

00:33:30.540 Nice, yeah.

00:33:31.040 you're like get out of here with this yeah but and see i thought i'm like i'm sort of like standing

00:33:37.040 up for the for the art form i'm like protecting comedy and comedians from these uh lunatics who

00:33:43.020 want to put rules on everything and they did not see it like ah no yeah they're working for the

00:33:48.960 rule makers right well they're essentially the the the laugh arm of like a political party

00:33:55.460 and that's exactly it you know and it's you know you can make if you want to do politics you can

00:34:01.940 make jokes absolutely you can but they have to be from this particular viewpoint about these topics

00:34:07.640 yeah i mean yeah here color inside the lines yeah to go back to what we're saying i go okay

00:34:14.500 you know when you were probably a kid that you probably saw certain bands or comics and whatever

00:34:19.380 you're into where you're like oh i want to be them you know what i mean i don't when i even

00:34:24.780 when I was in Canada, what I saw was younger comics being like, Oh, you know, I want to be

00:34:29.080 Tim Dillon or Andrew Schultz or Joe, you know, I saw a lot of that. And I I'm doing shows every

00:34:34.260 night and I were selling out and I'm seeing 19 year old kids being like, you know, you're my

00:34:38.680 favorite comic. That's what I want to do. You know, I don't see a ton of, you know, young people

00:34:43.580 right now, or even like, you know, I don't know if you guys like don't know the Nelk boys and all

00:34:47.040 that kind of movement or whatever. I see a lot of kids being like, that's what I want to be.

00:34:49.860 i don't see a lot of kids being like you know oh i want to be one of the on snl like i don't i just

00:34:57.280 don't i just don't see it the same way right now unless you were you know specifically going

00:35:01.180 through groundlings and whatever obviously that's the the dream or whatever but so i think a lot of

00:35:06.020 the the cool kids in my opinion so to speak that's who matt that's who i care about like who's the

00:35:11.660 you know kid that is sort of the tastemaker and he's 18 like what does he think does he who does

00:35:16.180 he like you know that's kind of the one that i want that's who i want to think i'm funny

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00:36:22.060 about technology privacy and censorship no absolutely and look when i started in the open

00:36:30.460 mic it's you know very ramshackle there was just a lot of the times just a mic in the corner of a

00:36:35.420 pub and you know you went and did your jokes and sometimes horrendous sometimes it was awful

00:36:39.800 but the thing that I loved I loved the most about it was a sense of freedom to me it was the closest

00:36:45.540 thing to punk rock that I've ever experienced and do you not sometimes think now both of them are

00:36:51.920 weird yeah exactly both of them are weird but do you sometimes think that this particular movement

00:36:57.200 that we're involved in is sort of a punk rock it's a sort of backlash against people saying you

00:37:02.740 can't say this you can't do this and whatever else yeah it is for sure and but the the counterculture

00:37:10.140 of it definitely is but it goes through phases right and and you know what how there's that

00:37:14.280 thing with companies where it always kind of falls apart a little bit on the you know second or third

00:37:19.940 generation of a family or whatever I mean when you talk about punk everyone there that is part

00:37:26.700 of that movement wasn't part of making it right so if you talk about comedy no one here was the

00:37:32.420 founders this part of it right so it's kind of the same reason why it's easier to tear stuff down

00:37:38.760 than it is to build it right and there's always a specific set of circumstances and energy and

00:37:43.260 things you're pushing back against and then eventually everyone sort of gets in and no one

00:37:50.000 really knows why those things are you just know that you fight it you know what i mean they go

00:37:54.280 what we just know that we hate this side and you go well why did they hate it at then and it doesn't

00:37:59.800 matter if it flipped it doesn't none of this matters i just know this is what i think so i

00:38:04.060 think that um there's always a punk rock element but every industry has its punk rock faction i

00:38:11.440 mean silicon valley has its you know kind of cowboys of silicon valley who are doing things

00:38:15.660 differently that i'm sure that if you were in the the university world has its cowboys who are sort

00:38:21.180 of not go on with the agenda. So I think that every industry has its rebels and freethinkers

00:38:27.720 and comedy. Because Hollywood controlled the purse strings, they sort of then started to

00:38:35.280 control the thought. And then I think that now that's leaving, it's becoming kind of more punk

00:38:39.880 rock again. Do you think that's going to stay as an internet phenomenon, Ryan? Or do you think it's

00:38:45.600 going to bleed more and more into the mainstream? As my girlfriend always says to me, whenever I

00:38:50.320 moan about this stuff about you know the mainstream not being interested she always says the words

00:38:54.280 capitalism always wins and what does she mean by that and she means that eventually you know the

00:39:00.520 mainstream is going to realize that the that the money is in the counterculture therefore they're

00:39:05.260 going to bring people from the counterculture into yeah and a lot of them already have but

00:39:08.460 the problem is the system's already changing i mean in the last six years we used to um you know

00:39:15.860 people used to watch cable and now you have watched two different two or three different

00:39:19.380 streaming services. And that's what the thing is. Right. So it's already changing. I mean,

00:39:22.880 the biggest people are YouTubers. So the problem is, and this is what happened with rap music back

00:39:27.120 in the day. I mean, the labels didn't want anything to do with it. We're, we're rock

00:39:31.260 stations. We don't touch this. Right. And then now there's, you know, seven or eight rap billionaires

00:39:36.200 and that's why. And I mean, Joe Rogan, everyone for a million years was like, oh, we know, we

00:39:41.200 don't, this is some beneath us thing. And then yeah, some company wanted to get involved with

00:39:45.920 it and what they have to do drop off a bag of money at his house so you know it's kind of you

00:39:50.860 have to think of it like silicon valley seed rounds where yeah you can go invest in amazon

00:39:55.440 right now but it's it's a hundred times more expensive than if you got in at the beginning

00:40:01.740 so yeah i think that you know you look at some of these people i have lots of friends and i'm

00:40:06.240 doing really well i have friends that you know the industry's coming to them like offering them

00:40:09.920 the same thing and they're like dude i'm rich like i don't know what like i'm rich and i'm

00:40:14.420 selling out like big, huge places. Like you think you're going to offer me the, I just showed up

00:40:19.240 deal. So yeah, they can kind of get involved by offering huge amounts of money and they also have

00:40:24.700 less influence. And I think that's, you know, even with like Louis CK, when he got the deal,

00:40:28.680 he goes, I'm not going to make changes. I'm like, you know, so the power, they're, they're just

00:40:32.400 bleeding power. So yeah, anyone can buy their way back into things, but it's just going to cost them

00:40:37.480 a lot. And the, the game's going to be shifted by then. You sound quite optimistic, Ryan. So I guess

00:40:43.800 if we follow the historical trajectory like 20, 30 years ago, it was the religious right that was

00:40:49.000 like, you can't say that. Now it's sort of the newly religious left. Do you reckon 10 years from

00:40:55.000 now, the right are going to make a comeback and they're going to be like, you know what,

00:40:58.420 you mustn't blaspheme and whatever else? It's a tough one because, yeah, I think I

00:41:03.680 am optimistic partially because it's a better way to be. I mean, you can choose which of those two

00:41:09.200 you are and neither is you know uh sure to be right but i do understand that there's so much

00:41:17.160 you know there these are real problems just because it you know just because you're optimistic

00:41:21.140 doesn't mean i don't understand the onslaught that's happening on citizens in terms of

00:41:26.460 lying to them and the control and the power grabs and the the thought you know control

00:41:32.240 like i do see it all and i do think it's a problem but i do think that probably it would be

00:41:38.640 I think it would be less of it goes the other way.

00:41:41.420 And my hope would be more that this leads to further decentralization.

00:41:46.160 I think that's probably a good thing.

00:41:48.000 I don't know if we see comedians become megastars the way that, you know, Ricky Gervais does again.

00:41:53.560 I think that I think that the fraction of fractionalization maybe is a positive thing.

00:41:58.820 So I see that the more decentralized it becomes, probably the better.

00:42:03.660 And maybe people do own their little corner of the Internet.

00:42:06.400 And I don't necessarily see that as a negative or a positive.

00:42:10.860 It's just a reordering, a reorganizing.

00:42:13.780 And I think that's what's happening in a lot of industries, including comedy, that there's

00:42:16.640 sort of a reorganizing of what exactly this is going to happen.

00:42:19.540 I mean, we were talking about the other day that in, you know, like NFTs and all that

00:42:23.920 sort of stuff, right?

00:42:24.980 You know, they're talking about the idea of, and they already have it, but the idea of

00:42:28.500 attaching like trigonometry would be attached to an NFT where you're essentially a stock

00:42:32.260 and people can invest in you, you know, as a, as a company.

00:42:35.000 and i'm sure you've seen someone come on the comedy scene before where you go oh that guy

00:42:39.700 that guy's got something you know i'd like to invest in that and then you could put money into

00:42:44.440 it but you know we have patreons and everyone has that sort of thing but the way that you could bet

00:42:48.500 bet on you know the the future of an artist the way you could on a on on a company and i think

00:42:54.480 that in music especially there's there's no way to make money in the music industry sort of fell

00:43:00.100 apart for that i mean you know when you were a kid i'm sure you could name 50 bands that you

00:43:04.240 you know, who was the biggest band to come out in the next 10 years? Like essentially

00:43:07.880 that is over, you know, on a lot of, for all intensive purposes. So I think that some of the,

00:43:14.780 there's just so many, there's so many people that are working so hard. And I mean, you know,

00:43:18.040 I'm talking to you guys, I meet so many people that I'm very impressed with, you know, the way

00:43:22.920 their brains work and their understanding of the world and their understanding for like problem

00:43:26.960 solving and solutions and trying. And I think there's a lot of people trying right now. So I

00:43:30.940 think that there's going to be a lot of cool solutions coming out of it. And I already see

00:43:34.880 some of them and I already see, that's what America is cool for too. And I don't know UK

00:43:39.420 that well, but I have so many friends that are just like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do

00:43:42.640 this. I mean, you know, like I'm going to get a studio. What if I ran my own studio? I'll have

00:43:46.440 five employees. Like I'll do this. What if we tour and every, everyone's like move makers.

00:43:50.000 And I think, you know, I just got a new studio. So I got my house, I got my studio and then

00:43:53.760 I'm running my little, uh, you know, my podcast business and I'm running my thing and I'm

00:43:59.920 touring every week. And if we're all kind of running our own little businesses and I see a

00:44:03.220 lot of people with ideas, then you kind of look, you go, maybe I'll do that. And then you, you know,

00:44:07.060 so I think that I'm a little bit, uh, positive with, I'm, I'm impressed with, you know, people's

00:44:13.940 ability to persevere a little bit. So that's, that's the part where I, I still see stuff that

00:44:19.280 people make and I go, Oh, or, or talk to people and hear the ideas they have for the future. And

00:44:22.920 I go, Oh, cool. You know? So I think that that that's why, where I see a reorganizing could be

00:44:29.220 positive and it's going to come up with, it might come out the other end with some new ways of doing

00:44:32.840 things. And I think it already has. I like, you know, instead of five big companies deciding who's

00:44:37.200 popular, everyone can kind of run their own business. I think it's making better stuff.

00:44:40.560 And I think it's people have a better place to listen to news and better place to find comedy

00:44:44.980 and whatever they want. So I think that might continue to get better. Or option two is it's

00:44:50.820 completely cracked down. It becomes, and we all become communist countries and that's a wrap on

00:44:57.100 the Western world. So I don't know. We'll see. Well, one thing I take away from this is we

00:45:01.540 desperately need to Google NFTs, mate. Yeah, exactly. I've got no idea. I'm not an expert at

00:45:06.240 that. The only thing that I really understand about it is why couldn't, what if I invested in

00:45:11.660 you? And then, so let's say, you know, let's say someone invested in me when I first moved to New

00:45:15.540 York, right? And then now you'd say, oh, Ryan's coin, his stock is worth this much. So even if

00:45:21.260 you didn't like me, you could have bought, you know, stock in me. And then now it would have,

00:45:24.880 you know be worth whatever amount so you can invest in someone that you don't even necessarily

00:45:29.480 because you like them just because you believe in their growth so i think that that's like potential

00:45:33.600 a positive of the future and brian we we've seen covid obviously we've seen all this you know you

00:45:41.740 know this nonsense happening or you know online trying to shut people down whatever else do you

00:45:46.780 think that there is still an appetite after covid for live comedy live performance or do you think

00:45:52.360 more and more people are just going to think to themselves why would i go to a gig when i can just

00:45:56.980 stay in and watch netflix or consume my content online i'm still well i'm selling out a lot of

00:46:03.020 my shows right now in new york comedy is back and it's pretty full but i think one of the things

00:46:08.000 that when people uh talk about that question they forget is like comedy is just a date you know what

00:46:16.560 i mean so i think a lot of people especially if you're in you know london or new york or something

00:46:20.500 you would go okay we're gonna go i'm gonna take out you know me and my girl are gonna go do you

00:46:25.360 want to go to dinner we could i don't know i guess we could go see a show or we could go to comedy

00:46:28.820 it's it's like i i think it's those things sort of just work their way into you know especially

00:46:34.060 people that are kind of 20 to 35 i think it just becomes a thing that people do so i there is

00:46:40.940 comedy fans and they'll always go to comedy but in terms of normal people i don't think that

00:46:45.620 if you're super scared you might be like for another two years i'm not doing anything i'm

00:46:50.140 one of those and I'm, you know, not going to leave my garage without a mask on. And even then I have

00:46:54.040 four masks on. But I think that the comedy where it's like, I'm just going to go see a show because

00:47:00.700 there's a date. I think that'll always happen. And, and people that are watching, you know,

00:47:04.700 people online and stuff, if anything, it's easier for them to get to their shows because they

00:47:08.800 actually kind of follow them. Remember before, like think about like 20 years ago, if you had

00:47:13.000 like an album and it was kind of, you know, successful, you know, and you had a little

00:47:17.520 following and people and you go how would they even know that you have shows like this is before

00:47:22.040 even mailing lists like how do they even know they just have to see a flyer that you're playing

00:47:25.780 how do you even communicate whereas you guys talk to all your fans once a week and you say hey we're

00:47:30.460 gonna be here so i don't know i think that it's probably better i have a question for you guys

00:47:35.580 do you guys agree okay so a lot of canadians come to america and they do pretty well right

00:47:41.080 that's a that's sort of a known thing that there's a hot like a very high percentage of canadians

00:47:45.300 that are successful in America.

00:47:46.460 And my thoughts is,

00:47:48.700 is because Canada is the mix

00:47:51.120 between UK comedy and American comedy.

00:47:54.500 So American comedy is very like

00:47:56.220 almost taking a small premise

00:47:58.100 or taking a small punchline

00:47:59.800 and almost making it bigger.

00:48:01.060 Like you almost oversell.

00:48:02.560 And British is you sort of try to take big punchlines

00:48:05.000 and like undersell them,

00:48:06.000 almost throw them away,

00:48:06.900 even though they're big jokes.

00:48:08.240 And I think we're sort of the in-between

00:48:09.800 where we're a little more flashy,

00:48:13.020 but we're kind of still the,

00:48:14.860 you know the small with the punchlines and sarcasm right could it just be that the shit

00:48:20.100 canadians stay in canada oh 100 but even but even then the percentage is still high way higher even

00:48:29.880 it's not i'm not saying the percentage of canadians that come here is higher like yeah

00:48:33.080 obviously i have that conversation all the time where people are you know oh canadians are all

00:48:37.200 great and you go oh there's plenty of bad comedians they're just not here yeah well you guys are so

00:48:42.660 you're like yeah the five of us that you know got green cards to immigrate here so you are right

00:48:46.900 but even then there's a higher percentage of even uh the per population it's way higher

00:48:53.920 i i think it's because canadians are likable you know what i mean yeah maybe there's something

00:48:59.160 there too yeah you know there's sometimes like you see an american comedian and it's very

00:49:03.320 interesting they come over like i i introduced this one guy to the stage i'm not gonna say his

00:49:09.140 name right okay and i was emceeing a gig and he was like dude i want you to tell him all about my

00:49:13.880 hbo series i want you to tell him about my special i want him to tell me all about this how i crush

00:49:19.940 this how i crush that that's an american accent by the way what was the name of the special that

00:49:24.660 he told you to tell him i can't remember i'll tell you afterwards right okay tell me who it is

00:49:29.960 and then yeah i'll tell you who it is afterwards and then i went are you sure you want me to do

00:49:35.400 this he was like absolutely he walked out on so I said everything that he did right and then as he

00:49:41.220 walked out on stage you saw the 120 English people go all right then dickhead make us laugh yeah and

00:49:48.580 he played to silence for about 20 minutes he came off sweating he was like dude man that was a tough

00:49:53.940 crowd he's like dude you screwed up my intro but I just think it's part of that you've got sort of

00:50:00.440 american confidence but as well like there's this sort of british almost european self-deprecation

00:50:06.500 i see a lot of canadians doing self-deprecating humor that i don't think as much americans do

00:50:12.160 in my experience yeah americans have a little more ego probably in general right even when

00:50:17.260 they're the self-depreciating uh you know i'm depressed comedians it's it's still you know

00:50:24.080 comes with a ton of ego really it's still all based around that but you are right as you said

00:50:28.600 that i never even did that but there are a lot of comedians where their jokes are so funny you're

00:50:32.800 just like in america you're just like man this guy's unlikable well it's it's a different style

00:50:40.520 isn't it it's a different style uh right so what's next for you because you know you seem hopeful

00:50:45.740 that all of this stuff is gonna gradually uh move on uh no i you know i yeah i'm putting words in

00:50:53.500 your mouth yeah yeah go well i just don't want to be the guy that's like oh this isn't a big deal

00:50:57.340 it's nothing it's all gonna sort itself out but it it could you know it could and i think that

00:51:03.520 you should probably operate towards that instead of towards uh it's over you know it's i always say

00:51:11.880 it's you know for example i think it's just the playing the victim it's like you can't play it

00:51:16.240 the other way too right it's there's so many people that are like let's say they work at a

00:51:20.280 job and there's some 20 year old dude and they go they're only promoting other people and they're

00:51:24.620 against me it's like yes stop working there do you know what i mean like you know in canada i

00:51:30.320 was part of this system and it was oppressive and whatever it's like yeah move if you live in new

00:51:35.020 york and you don't like the way it is like yeah you can move to texas and if you're in an industry

00:51:39.440 that's not working towards you move and do something else i mean there's so i just i'm

00:51:44.480 i'm a proponent of people there's always an opportunity and there's always um a way for

00:51:51.660 you to win even if you think the thing's getting worse so i think that it's important to no i get

00:51:57.420 it no i agree with you completely that's our attitude no it makes perfect sense and it's

00:52:01.580 always been our attitude on trigonometry like as i say we've paid a price for doing the show

00:52:07.320 but we've got the rewards that come with that and that's cool but we also do interview a lot

00:52:13.220 of people people who are you know a guy in his 50s who who started a charity for kids in the

00:52:18.680 in the city he made a criticism of blm and then got kicked out of his own charity now that guy

00:52:24.340 isn't gonna move to texas do you know what i mean like i mean you know he obviously is doing a press

00:52:30.560 tour about it you know he's on your i mean you could that that literally describes what happened

00:52:35.300 to jordan peterson who's now the biggest you know cultural figure of our generation or brett

00:52:39.580 weinstein or any of those guys you know what i mean what you described is legitimately essential

00:52:43.840 like kind of what happened to them and i mean again it doesn't always work out but i mean

00:52:48.800 for when we talk about you know there's someone okay so if we talk about right now that there's

00:52:54.160 someone that there's someone that invested in dodge coin or someone that put all their money

00:52:58.600 in some stock and now they're you know worth 100 million dollars and there's also a guy that put

00:53:04.400 all his money into a stock and his family's bankrupt and he's living in a van right now

00:53:08.340 and he doesn't have custody of his kids and so it's just the idea i think it kind of comes

00:53:14.700 you know when you guys are talking about like there's a system and you you know then you work

00:53:20.260 at this club and then you feature and then you work your way up to headliner and then you get

00:53:23.380 a writing job here and eventually you know that's the system for that it's like yeah this is

00:53:28.300 uncharted territory and it is like the wild west a lot of ways and sometimes in the wild west you

00:53:33.820 get shot and of course i'm against that like i'm not like yeah whatever he got shot that sucks i'm

00:53:39.140 like yeah this is crazy but you are right like if if you that's why i say to people a lot of times

00:53:45.600 people go to me like comics and they're like i want to say this stuff you know i want to do the

00:53:50.180 stuff you're doing but i don't have i'm afraid of the thing and i go most of the time i if i know

00:53:55.360 these people maybe i don't say this but a lot of the times i know them i go yeah you know you're

00:53:59.000 right you're not cut out for this like you know what i mean so be honest with yourself like if

00:54:02.980 you're the type of guy that you're 60 and you aren't cut out for you know sort of fighting

00:54:09.320 then yeah don't tweet online your opinions about blm like honestly it's so it is yeah there these

00:54:15.920 are like risks and it doesn't make it right it doesn't make it right that someone's you know

00:54:20.800 like uh out in the you know out at a saloon and then just get shot because they bumped into the

00:54:25.120 wrong guy but you've got to be honest about what the the situation is in the world right now and

00:54:29.860 what what risk reward you want to put yourself into well that's what i was going to ask you

00:54:35.280 about because let's be honest all three of our careers to some extent actually benefit from this

00:54:40.560 craziness being in existence right yeah but maybe you would have been super successful before too

00:54:45.020 right yeah i definitely would have been but yeah honestly you know i like how i've been successful

00:54:49.860 like two other times doing other things like you know the the a lot of times the i'm like

00:54:55.240 the whatever factor that both of them have is you, you know what I mean? So you, is it that

00:55:02.500 you benefited from it, but it's also you've flourished in whatever the environment was,

00:55:07.280 is probably a better way, you know, more positive way to put it about you.

00:55:10.860 But I guess what I'm getting at is, would you prefer to be talking about other stuff than,

00:55:16.720 than this? Or are you happy to just satirize or mock whatever is happening in society? You're

00:55:21.400 not really that attached i think that when it started i did feel a little um the way that

00:55:31.600 you're talking about in that you almost i think my friend put it in an interesting way there's

00:55:36.920 like a culture war that you got drafted to do you know what i mean because they basically say here's

00:55:41.840 the things you have to think and you have to say them and i go no i'm not going to say that and

00:55:45.320 they go well then you're on the other team and so there was a bit of that but i think that it's not

00:55:50.820 so much that the stuff in a lot of ways is irrelevant to me. I'm going to talk about

00:55:57.700 where the energy is. So let's say that, you know, 9-11 happened, right? And you could say,

00:56:05.400 you know, well, I don't want to talk about that. But if it's the number one issue in America right

00:56:11.100 now, that isn't a choice you're making. You know what I mean? So you can, I think that it's almost

00:56:19.100 like arrogant to pretend that what's important to me is independent of this. Like I'm really

00:56:24.380 into this thing and that's what it is. It's like, you know, there's the culture and there's an

00:56:28.560 energy. And so you're in some ways reaction to that. And if you're a comedian, you want to be,

00:56:35.100 you know, uh, talking about where the world is, where you disagree. You go, what's something that

00:56:41.560 I really think that I feel like everyone's wrong about. And maybe what that is, is irrelevant.

00:56:46.380 and i think one of the in some of it's both right like i always was really into the differences

00:56:50.680 between men and women as much as that's like you would say that's all you know the hack version of

00:56:54.660 women are from mars but it's controversial now ryan well that but that's what i mean so that

00:56:59.160 was something i was always re like you know me and my friends talking for hours about this is why

00:57:04.200 girls do this you know just that's something that's always been very very interesting me

00:57:07.580 like psychologically and i maybe didn't even notice that that me and my friends just have

00:57:11.720 always trying to get to the bottom of something you know what i mean about why girls are the way

00:57:15.240 So that, like you said, so that kind of became like a taboo thing that I happened to already be interested in talking about. I think I, whenever it became the Trump thing, a lot of times I made a few things about Trump, but generally on stage, I wouldn't talk about him. I would always kind of talk about the issues without his presence in my actual bits. Like I don't really say his name.

00:57:38.260 so you can so i tried to get creative with um inserting the things i want to talk about into

00:57:44.920 the cultural conversation and vice versa now and ryan the thing is like you know we are we're all

00:57:51.540 charting our path we're all you know making our own way it's great but there's one thing that

00:57:57.580 we're all at the behest of and we are incredibly vulnerable to which is yes exactly finally someone

00:58:05.100 talking about what francis wants to talk yeah exactly uh no it's uh it's it's basically being

00:58:10.940 cancelled having you know being de-platformed from twitter youtube all the rest of it i deal

00:58:16.280 with that on a daily basis yeah it sucks no it really does suck um and it's it's it's a bad

00:58:24.400 situation for in terms of that i mean i've gotten like a youtube strike and i'm trying you know i

00:58:29.780 try to put myself into a position where i you know try to have a guy there try to look at

00:58:35.040 what the things are and i try to push those lines i mean so i go back and forth on that because

00:58:39.660 for one there is this idea that on one side you go oh you should be able to say anything comedy

00:58:44.720 was never about saying anything i mean you go stand in front of an audience who has a certain

00:58:48.340 level of things they're gonna all have a point where they're that's too much for them find where

00:58:53.300 that point is and really get freaking close to it and then bring them back and you know that to me

00:58:59.140 that's kind of when comedy is at its best or what i like at least right so when you're on the even

00:59:05.620 with structuring when i when i write a script like we're working on a movie one of the things that a

00:59:10.320 lot of people do is they kind of one of your things needs to be grounded right so um if you go

00:59:18.840 let me just make like the wacky crazy show then if your plot and stuff's wacky crazy like then

00:59:24.500 your characters should be grounded or something should be grounded if everything just it's just

00:59:28.220 uncomfortable so there's there's never no boundaries so i guess these platforms are

00:59:33.780 another place where there's boundaries but the problem is not so much that there's boundaries

00:59:38.360 the bound the problem for me is that the boundaries are clearly um lopsided and they

00:59:45.880 change based on like they're they're like hypocritical and they're lying you know what i

00:59:50.820 mean where they're well they'll say oh you can't do this but what they really mean is we're just

00:59:55.680 going to censor are some political candidates we like and which ones we don't like so i think

00:59:59.600 i think that that is a real conversation that a lot of people are having right now and it's

01:00:05.220 probably good that it's at the forefront and a lot of people have i don't know exactly what

01:00:08.980 it's like in uk i know canada is different but in america i probably think that facebook twitter

01:00:16.020 instagram youtube these places essentially have a monopoly on speech and they've become to some

01:00:20.980 degree utilities so there is a point where i would probably think that they should be operating in

01:00:26.900 accordance with the first amendment and i don't know there's it's a tough one because you see all

01:00:30.640 these companies and they love the censorship because they just kind of use it for regulatory

01:00:33.940 capture like mark zuckerberg's like if anything you should make us have more people that fact

01:00:38.560 check you know and so essentially ostensibly no one could ever create a social media site ever again

01:00:43.380 there's a lot of people with different um competing interests and comedy and speech is

01:00:50.560 sort of almost a casualty to some degree in this, you know, politicians want to lobby,

01:00:54.980 the liberal politicians want to lobby the companies to, you know, they say they're not

01:00:58.520 censoring enough. The conservatives say they're censoring too much because they're getting censored

01:01:01.840 more. And then, you know, a lot of these companies probably just don't want to be in the speech game

01:01:06.520 at all, but they're getting, everyone's yelling at them. Like you're letting this on your platform,

01:01:09.840 but you're already allowed to block people on the platform. You're already, there already is,

01:01:13.800 if you are harassing someone, you know, there already is harassment laws that I think you're

01:01:18.780 not immune to because you're on twitter and facebook so i i think that at the end of this

01:01:23.440 conversation that the world's having right now if it got a little closer to that i think that

01:01:27.880 would be positive i think that if it became a situation where there's if it became uh less

01:01:35.780 if it became more centralized i think that would probably be negative so um i i am not sure where

01:01:41.800 that's gonna go what do you guys think no well we've we've been talking about this a hell of a

01:01:46.720 lot man and it's interesting and it's tough yeah yeah it's an unsolvable puzzle in many ways but

01:01:51.820 listen we'll save that for next time we have you back on the show uh we're gonna do a couple of

01:01:56.000 questions for locals in a sec but before we do our last question is always the same

01:02:00.620 francis is desperate to ask i'm desperate what's the one thing we're not talking about but we

01:02:05.680 really should be the one thing that we're not talking about oh is i would say one thing that

01:02:12.180 I've done a decent amount of videos about lately is I think that there is way too many people

01:02:19.620 essentially getting life advice from depressed people. And I think that we need a little bit

01:02:25.860 of a resurgence of the six, the six years ago, kind of tech mentality of, um, you know, that

01:02:33.600 it's important to get advice from people who are successful. So, you know what I mean? There's a

01:02:42.160 lot of people that are depressed their life's a mess but they have the answers for you they're

01:02:46.660 telling you what to do so i think we should talk we should put pride on on being successful having

01:02:54.580 your life together you know being in a state of mental health being you know uh living your life

01:03:00.440 in an optimistic way rather than that be sort of like oh this guy he's got it all figured out

01:03:06.580 I think that there's, there's a, there's like an odd, um, people, people look highly on people

01:03:14.620 that their life's a mess. Like there's some virtue in being a mess and, uh, being, you know,

01:03:21.560 unemployable and depressed and fighting with your girlfriend and, and all that sort of stuff. So I

01:03:26.300 think that, uh, I think that I like people that are unapologetically great. And I think that's,

01:03:33.220 I think there might be a resurgence to that.

01:03:35.780 And I see it with dudes,

01:03:36.640 a lot of dudes kind of looking at guys like that again.

01:03:39.700 I think that that's probably a good way to put it.

01:03:41.420 I think we're not talking about enough

01:03:42.860 about the greatness of dudes

01:03:44.920 that are unapologetically great.

01:03:47.120 Make America great again.

01:03:50.320 No, I don't, yeah, not America.

01:03:52.320 I just think that guys, like,

01:03:54.120 people will be, yeah, you're trying to put me for that on.

01:03:57.860 What you're saying is don't take life advice from comedians.

01:04:00.420 We hear you loud and clear.

01:04:01.360 yeah yeah comedians is a funny one yeah he's comedian you go you got this guy you know he's

01:04:06.960 45 with you know five roommates and he's telling you what you should be spending your time doing

01:04:11.580 like you guys should be doing this and this and this you go you should literally be looking at

01:04:15.420 him and doing the opposite that's what you should be doing that's exactly right listen Ryan thank

01:04:19.940 you very much where can people if they're not already familiar with your work which most of

01:04:23.620 them will be where can people find you online the boys cast with Ryan Long comes out every Friday

01:04:29.720 and patreon.com slash the boys cast an episode comes an extra episode comes out every week

01:04:35.220 and then every monday and that's on youtube um and on my uh youtube.com slash ryan long comedy

01:04:41.740 and all my socials are at ryan long comedy and every monday i release a sketch comedy

01:04:50.280 comedy skit well they are all fantastic i really recommend anyone who's not familiar with them go

01:04:56.880 check them out. Ryan, thanks for coming on

01:04:58.900 and thank you for watching at home.

01:05:00.780 We will see you with another brilliant episode

01:05:02.820 or a Raw show. All of them go

01:05:04.820 out at 7pm UK time. Take care

01:05:06.960 and see you soon, guys.

TRIGGERnometry - May 23, 2021

Ryan Long： Comedy vs. Culture Wars

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