TRIGGERnometry - Sam Harris Interview That Broke the Internet + Other TRIGGERnometry USA Interview Highlights

00:00:00.000 they should be fucking put to death for what they did there you go there's a hot take that's the 1.00

00:00:11.320 other thing that's annoying it's like not only should this stop it should cease to exist yeah 1.00

00:00:15.100 you're like well that's a little trumpy he goes ah we we hit a snag we really love you

00:00:21.020 we think you're a star but we're not taking white guys and i was just like what the you gave people

00:00:27.840 money limited money because of the race that they happened to be born into and you denied it to

00:00:33.360 others on the basis of race have you ever thought of moving yes

00:00:36.820 left-wing conspiracy to deny the presidency to donald trump absolutely it was absolutely right

00:00:47.440 but i think it was warranted you're saying you are content with the left-wing conspiracy to prevent

00:00:54.160 somebody being democratically re-elected as president more commonly it's called the forced

00:00:58.960 organ harvesting reality in china they basically looked at all these chinese officially published

00:01:05.640 chinese studies in medical journals and they found through looking at protocols very carefully

00:01:11.320 71 instances in the published literature where people had been killed by heart extraction

00:01:17.700 i thought that you know this is something that starts at the age of 18 but no i mean they chopped

00:01:23.520 the breasts off of uh 13 and 14 year old girls even younger sometimes 0.65

00:01:27.900 hey so what's the one thing when not bad not bad 1.00

00:01:31.800 hello oh no way bro no fucking way dog 0.99

00:01:48.280 that's not real what is look we do a formal intro all right let's just get it over with 0.97

00:01:58.600 all right that's how we normally start our interviews let's get it over with right

00:02:02.560 hello and welcome to trigonometry i'm francis foster oh come on dog you got to do better than

00:02:09.580 that i agree with you thank you sorry man i'm not trying to tell you what to do you know what

00:02:13.880 you're doing but you got to try harder bro

00:02:16.800 all right start again all right hello and welcome to trigonometry i'm francis foster

00:02:25.780 i'm constantin kisser and this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating

00:02:31.940 people our brilliant guest today is already taking the piss out of us it's the amazing american

00:02:36.580 comedian theo von welcome to trigonometry you guys have we call it autism

00:02:41.560 mark normand he's looking around for him welcome to trigonometry brother hey good to be here i said

00:02:47.360 before it looks like the game of clue this is so nice and the chair is great i mean this is a sweet

00:02:52.380 pad we have so much now you know like we used to be scared we used to have raids in uh classrooms

00:02:58.940 where they'd play this noise and then you all got onto your desk because the russians might be bombing 0.99

00:03:03.440 when that's going on you're not worried about pronouns you know you're like shit we could be 0.99

00:03:08.440 bombed right now and now we have shooters and we're still like can you believe that he said retard in 0.98

00:03:14.620 1978 we just it's just we got it pretty good now we got uber eats yeah just sit at home and get food 0.75

00:03:21.480 delivered and shoved in our fat faces and so we're like i need something i need to like get my blood

00:03:27.360 pumping hey this guy uh is in blackface in the 40s you know sorry i'm rambling

00:03:33.320 no the rambling is good okay yeah no it's i i think there's there's a lot to be said for that

00:03:39.540 the fact that you know people get upset by jokes yeah like well before the pandemic i was doing

00:03:47.300 you know gigging six nights a week on the london circuit doing all these big clubs and i remember

00:03:52.720 like i started to get curious about all of this stuff and i remember asking all the club owners

00:03:58.000 in london going have complaints gone up every single one of them said yes by a huge amount

00:04:05.100 that's interesting you know what has happened that people listen to a joke and suddenly go

00:04:11.540 not only do i not like it which is your right it's your right not to laugh absolutely it is but

00:04:16.800 it's also their right to go and demand that that person not be booked again at a club or not have

00:04:25.320 or just not say that joke right right yeah that's the other thing that's annoying it's like not only

00:04:30.380 should this stop it should cease to exist yeah and you're like well that's a little trumpy that's a

00:04:35.340 little uh fascist-y or whatever like you're this dictator hey get rid of it it's it's offensive but

00:04:41.360 like to who and then then we do this thing where i'll do like a black room and it kills the jokes 0.96

00:04:46.780 killed and i'll do a white room and they're like that's offensive to black people i'm like well

00:04:49.940 tell the uh 200 people the black people laughing man that is exactly what i found like i used to 0.95

00:04:55.080 have a bunch of jokes about me having dark skin and and people thinking i'm from pakistan and all of 0.96

00:05:01.100 that shit and it was always ethnic minority rooms where that went down really well yeah and it was 0.99

00:05:06.080 always the guilty white people exactly every time so isn't that a little fucked up you're speaking 1.00

00:05:13.400 for them it's this weird soft racism hey they can't handle that that's a little over the line 0.99

00:05:17.760 whatever and you're like they've been through so much and you're worried about this joke about not

00:05:22.700 being able to swim you know what are we doing here yeah so there's a lot of uh a lot of weird soft

00:05:29.900 bigotry of like we'll handle this they're brown yeah let us do it and you're like well how come 0.99

00:05:36.440 that's not offensive yeah but then making the joke was and i think the joke thing to your point is just

00:05:41.240 i think it's a young a generational thing i think younger people maybe they're they're they grew up

00:05:47.800 with this online outrage and like we got to stop this we got to stop that and so then they see it in

00:05:53.340 real life and they weren't ready for it they're like whoa i can't believe it we should do something

00:05:58.060 you know because everybody's living on a pillow right now you know and so when you go out into 0.99

00:06:02.900 the real world and hear a joke about fucked up shit it's hot it's heavy it's like whoa i didn't 0.99

00:06:09.100 see that coming and you can't pick what a comic says everything else in life is catered now tinder 1.00

00:06:13.900 it's like oh not ugly fat tall gay whatever even your meal i don't want uh gluten dairy whatever but 0.98

00:06:20.740 then you go to a comedy show and it's all fresh and you're like whoa i didn't i didn't pick this 0.99

00:06:25.880 but and you don't have control you don't have control they like control these people complain

00:06:30.980 they like control and we've always had these people sure but it definitely has upped yeah but

00:06:35.700 we've never given them a megaphone before that's right that too yeah and not only do they not have

00:06:40.500 a megaphone but now we listen yeah we cater to that one queef who was upset about the wheelchair 0.99

00:06:46.300 joke and like i've seen stuff where they're like no fat jokes and a guy's like i'm 400 pounds my

00:06:52.260 whole act is fat jokes and they're like yeah but he's like so now you're trying to be progressive

00:06:59.060 and a good guy but you're telling me what i can't say what makes me feel better how i get over my pain

00:07:04.540 this is how i relieve you know i feel better with with the jokes and they're like yeah it's no good

00:07:09.320 and he's like so you're like a dictator like i can't do my own fat this is my act

00:07:14.000 i just heard mark norman was just here i can still feel his hey hey hey comedy 0.99

00:07:20.220 what are we doing you're gay you're gay is that why this is the tears all torn up because 0.96

00:07:25.900 what are we doing i love mark yeah mark's great uh but one of the reasons we wanted to have you on 0.95

00:07:32.060 is obviously this situation with you and a potential agent manager um where you were about to

00:07:39.540 get signed they they said they really liked you and then they were like we can't work with you

00:07:44.780 because you're a white guy yeah and they're going to use this clip because it is about 100 degrees in

00:07:49.840 here and i'm sweating yeah so i'm picturing in a year when we're in court they're going to cut to

00:07:53.960 this clip and go look at him he's sweating through it he's probably lying about all of it uh yes yes so

00:07:59.880 what happened so what happened i this has been happening for about 10 years every once in a while

00:08:06.400 a casting director would say hey you know i want to submit you for this job but we're not really

00:08:11.560 doing the white guy thing right now okay that's interesting and it it happened more and more

00:08:17.860 frequently i'd be booked on a podcast get a text hey not the best time to have a white guy on yeah 0.99

00:08:24.760 sorry about that yeah thanks guys yeah you guys weren't even famous yet assholes 0.95

00:08:32.140 anyway back to the story back to the lawsuit right for eight for 10 years you've noticed that 0.96

00:08:39.360 every now and again you apply for something you know and they're like we're not doing the white guy

00:08:43.620 thing at the moment yep constantly one of the biggest jobs i i actually got i won't mention it but

00:08:48.660 uh it was a casting director who i knew personally she was a fan of mine um and she they them those i don't

00:08:57.180 wanna gotta be careful there too uh and she wrote to me she said i probably shouldn't submit white guys

00:09:04.880 for this but i have a feeling you're a perfect fit so i'm gonna sneak you in and again i mean to look

00:09:11.940 at that then i start to feel like well i i don't deserve it why the the job had nothing to do with race

00:09:19.560 or gender or anything and i booked the job and every day i went and i did feel a little bit like

00:09:25.940 am i stealing this from somebody because of the way she presented it um so yeah it just happened

00:09:31.440 more and more and then i had an agent bring me in big agent in new york he goes why aren't you on

00:09:40.060 snl every year around two months before snl people would bring me and go why aren't you on snl why aren't

00:09:45.120 you famous and i'm like well if you know if you want to help me out that'd be great you know i don't

00:09:50.700 have lauren's whatsapp so a few months later radio silence and i i emailed i said what's what's going

00:10:00.080 on no auditions nothing and he wrote back and i quote tough out there for white dudes and then they

00:10:06.320 they removed me from the roster i got an email it said you've been removed so i was i was done

00:10:11.400 are you tired of using bulky old wallets giving you a bulge where you don't want it to be my old

00:10:18.300 wallet was massive so it brought all the ladies to the yard which was a huge distraction and got in 1.00

00:10:24.600 the way of my esteemed work on trigonometry ridge wallets have an incredible solution for you this is

00:10:31.200 mine sleek stylish and with an industrial look to it it can fit 12 cards with cash on the back using a

00:10:37.840 clip like this one or a strap we've got one for the whole team i've got one francis has one even

00:10:43.840 our producer anton has one but he's from liverpool so he flogged his on the black market the great

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00:11:20.140 forward slash trigger that's ridge.com forward slash trigger and use our special code which is of course

00:11:26.400 trigger so then i just stopped pursuing agents and managers for a while started making my own stuff

00:11:32.860 this agent um that i am suing or manager rather reached out and said we love you we want to get

00:11:41.600 you auditions for curb your enthusiasm all this stuff and um said great a few months later they reach out

00:11:50.700 said we want to call we want to get you on the phone so i'm sitting there like all right here we go

00:11:54.580 finally it's all it's all happening and he goes ah we we we hit a snag we really love you we think

00:12:02.140 you're a star but we're not taking white guys and i was just like what the you know been at this for

00:12:09.380 15 years not that i deserve anything you know if i went my whole career without getting booked on

00:12:15.920 something but i at least had the opportunity to audition i'd feel okay about that but what's happening

00:12:21.920 now is they're removing certain races from even having the opportunity to compete and that's what

00:12:28.840 a manager or an agent is they get you the opportunity to compete that you otherwise can't

00:12:34.060 unless you have you know a big youtube show like you guys uh so i'm sitting there and i remembered my

00:12:41.180 therapist uh i was dating a quite mentally unstable woman at the time and he said you need to start

00:12:47.100 recording conversations if anything comes up because you don't want to be accused of the million

00:12:52.380 things you can be accused of and so i hit record i said can you say that one more time you know you

00:13:00.260 like me yeah you think i'm a star yeah but you won't work with me because i'm white and i was like can

00:13:04.640 you say it a little slower a little slower and uh i said is that company policy and he said uh yeah it

00:13:14.180 is and so you know i hung up and i was crushed you know i want to i want to sit here and pretend like i

00:13:21.780 i it didn't bother me but i cried you know it was like this the little kid when their balloon is just

00:13:28.400 you know getting taken away into the sky it's like i saw my career just i tried everything you

00:13:35.080 know i i worked 12 hours a day seven days a week i do all the shows i've been making sketches and i

00:13:40.060 just thought without this gatekeeper i'm not going to make it and so um i didn't just go out and sue

00:13:46.580 them and i mean i worked with my therapist for for months on this and and um decided to to finally

00:13:54.120 pursue it because i thought it'll kill me if i don't yeah i was i was losing my mind francis i

00:13:59.880 know you want to jump in and i just want to finish this one thing real quick and then have at it i

00:14:05.580 actually have to go right we'll just cut it there no but uh the reason i the thing i wanted to say

00:14:11.500 before francis you take over is this when i saw the story that this had happened with you 0.98

00:14:16.040 it kind of made me laugh you know why because you're racist exactly uh i hate white people uh in 0.97

00:14:23.980 the uk that's no longer racist mate yeah that's yeah but in the uk this is going on all the time 0.97

00:14:31.800 yeah i had i remember an incident where i i had someone was not racist to me in the street right

00:14:38.380 and that day i got home and i got an email what was the race was it white or no no it was dark

00:14:43.380 oh because you you're right i can i can go either way this is my point right same day i get home that

00:14:49.820 evening i get an email from a promoter saying i'm sorry we're gonna have to change your dates

00:14:54.120 because there's too many white people on the bill so i've just been you know what i'm saying

00:14:58.220 and francis will tell you as well this is like it would never occur to anyone on the uk comedy scene

00:15:05.480 to sue a manager or an agent who'd said that yeah because it's it's just taken for granted now

00:15:10.660 it's normal it's normal it's beyond normal it's so normal that they're comfortable saying it

00:15:15.800 even with the little laugh you know i believe he had a little giggle you know you know the 0.98

00:15:21.280 pendulum will swing back and i'm going the pendulum is broken out of the fucking clock 0.98

00:15:25.740 and it's just like slamming everyone in the head i don't want to hear the pendulum analogy 0.92

00:15:31.780 you know so we can start with uh the pandemic era aid policies that have been distributed

00:15:40.660 on race so there's the american rescue plan which was a two trillion dollar bailout at the height of

00:15:48.400 the pandemic in 2021 to help americans that were struggling to help businesses you know part of that

00:15:54.080 was 28 billion dollars for restaurants that were going out of business every day and the program was

00:16:02.120 done in such a way that anyone not white was put to the front of the line automatically

00:16:09.600 in so-called priority groups if you're white um it took a lot more work to get into that category

00:16:16.480 um there was four billion dollars of aid for farmers with debt

00:16:23.400 only if you were non-white zero of that money was available to you if you were a white farmer with

00:16:30.560 debt and there was zero money in the bill available to you in general right so it was just a pot of money

00:16:36.480 only for non-white farmers um and again if you are if you're a white restaurant owner or a white

00:16:45.360 struggling farmer that loses their farm in the context of a recession people are losing their

00:16:51.880 businesses every day and your business is your life absolutely you are never going to forgive that

00:16:59.280 you were not treated on the basis of need but you were treated on the basis of race just like black 1.00

00:17:05.660 people in america have not forgotten redlining jim crow um you know convict leasing uh all of these

00:17:15.200 policies that affected black americans have not been forgotten and in many cases have not been forgiven and

00:17:22.160 we should not expect that these kind of things are going to be forgotten or forgiven

00:17:25.660 and uh certainly not going to be excused on the basis of paying for other people's sins

00:17:31.920 the thing that i find completely baffling when you were expect when you were talking about this and

00:17:37.580 when you're talking about it now i just think the people who come up with these ideas do they not

00:17:42.740 realize this really pisses people off quite rightly and there will be a backlash yeah they it's

00:17:49.780 interesting i think i think i think many people are able to um ignore the ignore the backlash in two

00:18:01.220 ways so in in in one way they will just actually not look at it right like a lot of a lot of i think

00:18:09.120 top democrat party operatives would not actually like these policies if they look them in the face it's

00:18:17.740 just they kind of sweep it under the rug they don't report about it they don't watch the tucker

00:18:22.320 carlson segment about it because why would they watch that and they soft pedal it if you bring it up

00:18:28.920 they say oh it wasn't really that it was something softer they use the language the orwellian euphemisms

00:18:35.660 of priority group and historically disadvantaged group um which you know all of which is intended

00:18:43.440 to soften the truth which is that you gave people money limited money because of the race that they

00:18:49.960 happened to be born into and you denied it to others on the basis of race period and so there's that but

00:18:56.500 then there's also um the way this will be reported on is the groups that are part of the backlash well

00:19:03.620 they're maga backed groups right so there's a maga backed lawsuit against the farmer bill right when you

00:19:11.040 read this in the new york times they will make sure to front load for you and therefore prime prime

00:19:18.460 you as a reader so like i'm like i don't like maga i don't like trump i voted against him twice so when

00:19:23.460 i read that it's a maga backed lawsuit that's priming me to say oh well we their anger doesn't count

00:19:30.240 well a bunch of racists being racist they're a bunch of racists being racist exactly whereas if you

00:19:34.860 were to meet one of these people a white restaurant owner struggling um who may have had no you know 0.92

00:19:41.900 you may assume this person had quote-unquote white privilege or whatever but you know nothing about

00:19:46.520 this person's background like he might he might have struggled just as much or more than a black

00:19:51.100 restaurant any given black restaurant owner um and and you meet him and you look in his eyes and you

00:19:59.220 go to his restaurant and and you see that this person was reported on as basically a quote angry

00:20:07.340 white guy and in a way that was intended to to let you dismiss his anger as invalid i mean you know

00:20:16.260 and by the way what was the civil rights movement but a long overdue backlash to jim crow laws that's

00:20:23.680 what it was so the the language of backlash i think is it's intended to make you feel that

00:20:30.340 this is that people are reacting that they're coming from a place of anger that's invalid and i i think

00:20:40.060 it should that anger should be seen as a um like a perfectly predictable consequence of people being

00:20:50.060 discriminated against and the discrimination should stop right well this is what i was going to ask

00:20:55.720 you about because um i i talk about in my book uh about one experience that i had in the uk when i was

00:21:02.820 invited to participate in a in a tv discussion of these similar issues um and afterwards one of the

00:21:11.080 it was a panel of several people and afterwards one of the presenters during the ad break uh looked

00:21:17.000 at me and they went i'm so glad there weren't any white british people here to be involved in this

00:21:21.920 conversation and i was completely stunned by this and it was only when i got home later i was like why

00:21:30.460 would they say that like they know i don't agree with this imagine i recorded that and i put that out

00:21:36.520 or whatever right um and then it was only when i got home later that i realized this is normal to

00:21:43.960 these people this way of thinking is normal now broadway's smash hit the neil diamond musical a

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00:22:09.960 noise april 28th through june 7th 2026 the princess of wales theater get tickets at mirvish.com

00:22:17.420 the homeless situation in this in this state is out of control the last time i was here was 2007

00:22:25.140 and what i've seen just driving about in the short time that i've been here i found genuinely shocking

00:22:30.660 well there's so there's another thing which is sort of the beginning of the end of a civilization which

00:22:39.960 is california has in very intense rules for people who pay taxes and play by the rules i mean insane

00:22:49.700 amount of regulation red tape but conversely if you do not want to pay taxes or you can then

00:23:00.600 construct yourself a shelter on the side of the freeway and you will be left alone so basically 0.97

00:23:06.860 it's this we have some of the most stringent building codes and they're up your ass every step 0.85

00:23:14.440 of the way so if you want to you own a home and you want to build a gazebo in your backyard that's a 0.81

00:23:20.300 two-year permit situation there but if you'd like to not pay taxes or property taxes and just build a

00:23:28.360 plywood home in the park you will be left alone and that's why we have over regulated for those who 0.61

00:23:37.640 are playing by the rules and almost zero regulation for anyone who wants to just slam drugs and live in

00:23:45.500 the street and why is that what's the philosophy behind that from from the powers that be i there's a

00:23:51.940 kind of a weird system which is like you have money you can afford a home you know that that homeless

00:24:00.580 person is sort of noble and needs our help and we're going to punch up we're not going to punch

00:24:05.780 down and leave him alone i i chronicled this in a a book i wrote a few years ago which is i started

00:24:12.980 noticing there's a street it's called force lawn drive it goes by the cemetery and it's three miles from here

00:24:21.480 and so it's a big cemetery there and so on one side of the street you have a lot of poor latino 0.58

00:24:29.700 people who go down to the flower mart latinx please adam they buy latinx and they buy it's the most

00:24:39.340 obnoxious so they buy flowers and then they sell them cheaply to people that are going to visit

00:24:45.700 nana who died four years ago and and so on one side of the street you have and it's a mess like

00:24:53.260 the boxes and the trash and everything on one side of the street and they're just running a bootleg

00:24:58.460 flower shop from the street they're just street vendors you know and street vendors street vendors

00:25:03.560 everywhere here as you guys probably know okay on the other side of the street there's a cop

00:25:09.860 and the cop's on a motorcycle and he's backed up the driveway to the jewish cemetery and he's got

00:25:17.760 his radar gun out he's giving tickets to taxpayers and soccer moms that are going five miles an hour

00:25:26.320 too fast down forest lawn drive the other side of the street is illegal activity going on and first off

00:25:34.480 they're not paying taxes nothing's permitted they don't have a business license they're undercutting

00:25:38.760 the flower store up the street who has to pay insurance and and all the expenses that have

00:25:45.600 occurred with running a business in los angeles those people operate with impunity and our government

00:25:51.940 is handing out tickets to the soccer mom who's driving her kid to school i noticed that about 10

00:25:59.080 years ago and i was like something's broken here you either have to bust both people or you got to let

00:26:05.060 the soccer mom go too and so we start that's the path that's a progressive path i don't know what i

00:26:12.620 don't know what's considered compassionate about letting people just sort of die in the streets or

00:26:19.140 sell their goods in the streets or all cash under the tail it's some compassion we also have a racial

00:26:25.200 thing too because those are hispanic people on that side of the street if you come down on them then

00:26:29.580 that's going to be like a bad optic we're we're a mess we don't know what i i i went out on a boat

00:26:38.200 with a guy who ran the staple center which is now i don't know the crypto center or whatever it is and

00:26:44.200 i said to him i i walked out of a lakers game a couple years ago with my son there's besieged with

00:26:51.860 people with makeshift hot dog carts and propane tanks just selling street food but i said it was all on

00:26:59.120 your property it's all on the staple center it wasn't it was right by right there's the door

00:27:03.700 and why did you walk out of the venue it's like you bang into a guy that he pulled out his phone and

00:27:08.760 he showed me a picture of one of those carts with a giant cockroach cooking on it and he said he said

00:27:15.220 we hate it we hate it what can you do i said what can you do you're you're inside charging 14 bucks for 0.65

00:27:23.640 a hot dog these guys are charging two bucks for a hot dog there's no permit there's no license they're

00:27:28.140 dealing with food there's no health ordinance or something they're on your property they're just

00:27:32.960 selling he said oh yeah they they load them up in vans and they bring them out you know and they're

00:27:37.980 all cooking out front there i said go to the city council you guys were the biggest taxpayers in the

00:27:44.540 you you took downtown and resurrected it by building the staple center you gotta be one of the biggest

00:27:50.240 taxpayers employers in the city go down to the commission the city council tell them clean this 0.92

00:27:55.680 shit up we don't want this stuff out he goes i don't want to get into trouble what that's the way 0.83

00:28:01.460 those exact words to me i don't want to i don't i don't need that kind of trouble what does that mean 0.96

00:28:06.260 adam it just means if he he as the taxpayer who runs the staple center if he goes to the city council

00:28:14.720 and says i want you to get these people off of my whatever they'll go after him that's i mean we did

00:28:21.340 the same with covid it's like that's that's just where we're at that's why people are leaving

00:28:25.340 and this is what i was going to ask you because when we were in austin we we did joe rogan's show

00:28:30.160 and one of the things he's trying to do is get a bunch of people down there sort of like a building

00:28:34.380 new scene have you ever thought of moving yes

00:28:36.860 but you haven't no and that's why i'm a good interviewer

00:28:44.600 we referenced it at the start of the interview one of my our favorite routines of yours is the

00:28:49.920 white privilege routine it's brilliant it's brilliant and and i think the reason it hits

00:28:54.520 it's look it's wonderfully funny let's just say that first of all but i think the reason it hits

00:28:58.600 it's because you're telling the truth yeah so how did step us guide us through how did you how did you

00:29:06.320 make that happen how did you well they didn't like you know sometimes like poor poor white people get 0.89

00:29:12.540 left out of like the the poverty conversation i feel like sometimes maybe it's hard to like 0.98

00:29:20.380 it's kind of shit sometimes you're like if you're white right and i'm polish and nicaraguan right 0.97

00:29:28.360 and but if you are whiter looked at as a white you know whitey honky wiggers whatever they call 0.99

00:29:35.020 them you know um i don't know what they call them in what do you guys call them chavs chavs 0.99

00:29:42.420 yeah a couple fucking you know little chavs right at ar um if you are chavs or just regular white 1.00

00:29:52.020 poor white people then yeah i felt like a lot of times um when people think of like poor they think 0.99

00:29:59.220 of just uh ethnicities first a lot of times you know and so and you always feel bad anyway because

00:30:06.540 white people you're just supposed to have money right so automatically out of the gate you're like 0.64

00:30:10.740 how the fuck do we not have a little bit more money than this right right if you've had a couple 0.99

00:30:17.280 generations and you've shown up in the you know in the correct uniform yeah how would you not have a 0.98

00:30:22.640 bit more of a you know treasure chest you know but but you know that's what you get born into and so

00:30:29.300 that's that and uh and yeah it kind of feels like you don't really get a voice sometimes you know um

00:30:35.700 and then yeah so i think that was part of my thing it was like i'm i ride the same bus as the poor black

00:30:46.680 kids the poor we only had black and white in our town but like you know when people think of um

00:30:54.180 um when people think of yeah helping like sometimes they they would miss us you know it would feel like

00:31:02.900 sometimes and now also maybe that's just a feeling and maybe that's not even the reality but it was my

00:31:09.340 perception sometimes you know i wasn't angry at black people for it i just was like well this is

00:31:14.740 my truth you know right and sometimes it feels like uh they don't know where to put that truth

00:31:23.420 in like a mainstream space right it doesn't fit that if you're not if you're poor and white and not

00:31:31.780 a racist person or you know somebody who's mating with their you know siblings or whatever then

00:31:39.880 you um they don't it's almost like yeah we're yeah like you don't exist but you do and there's a lot

00:31:49.740 of you you know hey francis do you like locals i live in london mate so obviously not the only pleasure

00:31:57.420 i get from the locals is when we share an intimate moment as we watch a japanese tourist get trapped in

00:32:03.980 the tube door that is good but i wasn't talking about the locals i was talking about our community

00:32:11.240 on locals you mean the one where you get phenomenal behind the scenes content when you

00:32:16.480 where you get to ask incredible guests like jordan peterson brett weinstein bill burr sam harris

00:32:27.920 adam carolla heather hying and others your questions not just that you can get supporter

00:32:34.500 only benefits like trigonometry mugs monthly calls with other top supporters and even a regular meal

00:32:40.720 with me and francis you also get phenomenal behind the scenes footage of our trip to america where we

00:32:48.420 met a whole host of incredible guests and gave ourselves terminal indigestion we're also starting to

00:32:55.020 do monthly giveaways for locals only the first one will be signed copies of andrew doyle's new book

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00:33:08.180 conversations and most importantly you get to make new friends you can support us with as little as

00:33:14.780 seven dollars or about five pounds a month or give us more for the higher tier benefits go to

00:33:20.180 trigonometry.locals.com go to trigonometry.locals.com and support the show do you really

00:33:29.080 want to live in a country where you have a digital public square which in my opinion twitter is we can

00:33:34.680 disagree about that if you want but that's my opinion it's a digital public square and you have

00:33:39.540 a company that has clearly one-sided enforcement i i hear what you're saying about delegitimizing the

00:33:46.540 electoral process that trump did right and i was concerned about that i think you can't question

00:33:51.360 the system in that way but when you see that he gets banned and then a story about hunter biden gets

00:33:59.240 banned that under the guise of it being russian disinformation we later learn it wasn't russian

00:34:04.320 disinformation that to a lot of people seems like you know i said when we were talking to joe rogan

00:34:09.400 it's putting your hand on the scales yeah in favor of one side in the digital public square you add

00:34:15.960 that to the banning of trump and lots of other people being banned from one side predominantly

00:34:22.180 right is that is that the world you want to live in where one team gets to just ban people it disagrees

00:34:28.540 with off the platform it gets to pretend that things that are true are not true it gets to shut down the

00:34:34.140 sharing of information with people who want to make their own democratic choice well it's a hard

00:34:40.200 question and there are pieces of the question that are individually hard it's like the hunter biden

00:34:44.840 laptop story is something that i still don't have a full opinion about i actually don't know what we

00:34:54.860 should have done about that i mean so i see the reason i see both sides of it i can argue either side

00:35:00.400 of it that the so let's leave that piece aside the bias on the platform so so either twitter is a

00:35:07.780 company that can do what it wants right it can have its own terms of service it can change its policies it

00:35:14.240 can you can change you know it can decide to you know it can have a point of view or not right or

00:35:20.680 we have to seize it as some kind of you know crucial piece of public infrastructure that has to

00:35:29.540 do you not think that it is a crucial piece of public infrastructure i think i think people who are

00:35:33.700 addicted to twitter feel it is most you know and and i think it's you know i don't think it should

00:35:40.820 should be um and it's it's odd to say that it's just so it's first of all it's just i mean facebook

00:35:48.060 is much much bigger right it's just that we have a lot of smart people journalists uh brands uh political

00:35:55.100 people focus concentrated on twitter so twitter moves the the conversation more than facebook does but

00:36:01.700 it's it's it's it's the scale of it is much smaller um i don't know i just feel like

00:36:08.560 people can start their own companies which they have right so they can start competitors at twitter

00:36:14.680 there are many people who you know twitter is not it's still a failing business right it's like it's

00:36:19.060 not it doesn't work really i mean facebook is is a much better business um there's nothing stopping

00:36:28.100 facebook from becoming stickier for intellectuals and journalists and it's attracting more of the

00:36:36.100 conversation over there um i don't know it's just it's an extreme move to say you you can't

00:36:46.200 you can't be biased right like who's who's going to say that but behind behind the saying of that

00:36:52.500 is a law in the end and there and therefore it's a gun therefore it's it's it's jail time for the

00:36:59.380 person who wants to keep breaking the law right so like just imagine imagine if twitter the twitter

00:37:03.940 board is like what you everyone gets what they want you know everyone who's who's of this opinion

00:37:08.460 gets what they want you just we're gonna we're gonna come in and and and enforce something like

00:37:13.640 um uh zero bias state in twitter insofar as that's possible and if the if the employees and

00:37:22.520 the board just say you know sorry we we have a point of view we want we want to have we we don't

00:37:27.540 like these people and we like these people um what does now you just break up the company you just say

00:37:34.080 you know i mean i i thought what i thought it should have happened with twitter is i thought

00:37:38.200 jack dorsey should have deleted it i mean i literally thought he should would have got the

00:37:42.820 nobel peace prize and he just at a certain point deleted it right um but uh yeah i don't so in any

00:37:52.760 case what should there should they be forced to be impartial i'm very skeptical of that should they

00:37:59.780 be cajoled by unhappy people like yourselves or like you know the um you know the trump fans to um

00:38:09.720 to behave better i'm just putting the counter argument yeah i mean i think so yeah yes i think

00:38:14.100 if they were going to be the first thing to admit is it may be impossible to do this impeccably

00:38:22.140 right it's like it's like the until we have you know perfect artificial intelligence it's just going

00:38:27.380 to be impossible to be truly consistent with your terms of service because you're always going to be

00:38:34.080 able to find the example of the thing that was not appropriately moderated yes but if we all know

00:38:40.580 that if that laptop was donald chuns jr oh yeah this would be treated that's that's all i'm asking oh

00:38:45.580 yeah well so but that's so let's take that piece um i think it was totally appropriate to view trump

00:38:55.040 in a to be existing in a in a domain that was orthogonal to partisan politics i my criticism of

00:39:06.140 trump is totally non-partisan right there is absent there's literally nothing i say about trump that i

00:39:13.780 could say about any other republican right and i think liz cheney is a total hero right so so and i

00:39:19.760 don't agree with her politics at all right like liz cheney is a religious maniac by my lights right and 1.00

00:39:25.760 in in that sense kind of a terrifying political figure like like like that like the the old me

00:39:32.780 who you know was just worried about the christian theocracy in the united states um would have just

00:39:39.020 revolted at everything she would attempt to implement as a politician but at this moment she's

00:39:49.000 you know she has no bigger fan than me because of how she's dealing with the trump phenomenon the

00:39:55.360 trump phenomenon is not a matter of political partisanship he is a he is just a sui generis

00:40:01.060 uh phenomenon and it's again it's it's analogous to having elected alex jones president united states

00:40:09.320 it's it's a it's a it's not a matter of his like i probably agree with half of his policies or more

00:40:16.500 than half of his policies it's not a matter of policy it's a matter of having someone who's

00:40:20.500 totally unfit to have power be given more power than any person in a generation and and he's unfit

00:40:28.760 for in every possible way it's like it's not it's not that he's just got a few screws loose like

00:40:36.440 every screw is loose every screw that you would want totally cranked down is loose or non-existent

00:40:42.560 in him um and so yeah so it's but that that's my argument so i guess so my argument is that

00:40:48.900 it was appropriate for twitter and the heads of big tech and journal and the heads of journalistic

00:40:55.480 organizations to feel that they were in the presence of something like a a once-in-a-lifetime

00:41:03.160 moral emergency right whereas this is not the same thing as not liking george bush you know or not

00:41:10.540 liking john mccain or not liking mit romney for their politics this was here's a guy who

00:41:17.360 is capable of anything right he's not he's not ideological but he's again he's he's a black hole

00:41:26.360 of selfishness right he's he's he's just and so there's no telling what he's going to do

00:41:31.260 um and we cannot afford to have four more years with this guy right and and so um so what what

00:41:42.040 should well-intentioned people do who have a lot of power in these various ways you know you're running

00:41:48.140 the new york times you're running cnn you're running twitter what should they conspire to do

00:41:54.360 admit that it's those conditions admit that trump is their fault and look on someone from the left

00:41:59.820 absolutely that that's well no no that that's the perverse thing it's totally their fault he i mean

00:42:04.620 cnn cnn gave us trump right without no before cnn gave us trump mark burnett gave us trump i mean

00:42:10.680 if there's one person who could have not done what he did and and could have closed the door to this

00:42:17.880 whole phenomenon it was mark burnett um but yeah no by giving him the attention you know but he was he

00:42:27.160 was great ratings you know for a year for the whole run-up to to the 2016 election oh yeah no there no one

00:42:35.300 has clean hands here but at the 11th hour when it's when who knows how this election is going to go

00:42:42.320 who know who knows what the capacity for you know disinformation at the last minute to to tip the

00:42:49.600 balance who is then what do you do with the hunter biden laptop story when we already know we we know

00:42:58.700 how this played out in 2016 with the hillary clinton email you know press conference where comey and in

00:43:05.040 in an abundance of scrupulosity felt like he had to come before the cameras i think 10 days out from

00:43:11.700 the election and say you know we've we're going to open up this this investigation again because

00:43:16.480 we've got anthony weiner's laptop uh we could see i mean again her failure to become president was

00:43:24.140 overdetermined she was a an appallingly bad candidate um but in terms of just tracking the poll numbers 0.96

00:43:31.080 you could like that was that was the killing blow to her candidacy right that that final moment and this

00:43:38.280 was a this was a highly analogous situation this was we're going to open up this laptop from hell

00:43:43.780 and the news cycle for who knows how long is going to be just just conceivably just a nuclear bomb of

00:43:54.960 an october october surprise and we're going to get four more years of trump if we actually give this

00:44:01.140 a fair hearing but sam but you can't do that sam surely you've got to realize that you've got to be

00:44:07.340 fair and number the thing that i want to we're all equal before the law yeah and then we and the

00:44:11.760 other this isn't the law but i know it's not the law but if this is if you accept my my supposition

00:44:16.800 that this is the public square then it is the law it is if it is the public square then it is law now

00:44:22.560 you're arguing it's not the public square which is fair enough yeah right that's fine but why don't

00:44:26.820 we move on because i think we've done enough yeah true yeah he's sucked up a lot of it

00:44:30.160 no but i'll just say just finally i do again it's like a coin toss for me the hunter biden

00:44:39.160 laptop thing because i i do understand how corrosive it is for an institution like the the new york times

00:44:49.400 to show obvious bias and inconsistency and dishonesty in how they it's like they couldn't

00:44:57.160 even frame it honestly it's not like it's not like it's like the way i would frame it is uh

00:45:03.380 listen i don't care what's in hunter biden's i mean hunter biden at that point hunter biden

00:45:08.780 literally could have had the corpses of children in his basement i would not have cared right it's like

00:45:15.480 there's nothing first of all it's hunter biden right it's not it's like it's not joe biden but

00:45:20.760 even if joe like even whatever scope of joe biden's corruption is like if you if we could

00:45:27.420 just go down that rabbit hole endlessly and and understand that he's getting kickbacks from

00:45:31.980 hunter biden's deals in ukraine or wherever else right or china it is infinitesimal compared to the

00:45:40.960 corruption we know trump is involved in it's like it's like it's like a firefly to the sun right

00:45:46.740 i mean like there's just it doesn't even it doesn't even stack up against trump university

00:45:51.800 right trump university as a story is worse than anything that could be in in hunter biden's laptop

00:45:58.400 in my view right now that's not that doesn't answer the people who say it's still completely unfair

00:46:04.060 to not have looked at the laptop in a timely way and to have shut down the you know the new york

00:46:10.140 posts twitter account like that that's a just a conspiracy that's a left-wing conspiracy to deny

00:46:16.040 the presidency to donald trump absolutely it was absolutely right but i think it was warranted

00:46:22.360 right and i'm and again it's a coin toss as to whether or not sam i'm sorry that particular piece

00:46:26.420 i'm really sorry i i was the one that said we should move on but you've just said something i 0.98

00:46:30.180 really struggled with that which is you support the kids in the basement you no no fuck the kids in 0.98

00:46:36.380 the basement i'm interested in democracy you're saying you are content with the left-wing 0.99

00:46:42.680 conspiracy to prevent somebody being democratically re-elected as president well no i'm content well

00:46:48.500 so it's but the thing is it's just not left-wing right so liz cheney is not left-wing right liz 0.99

00:46:53.200 cheney is doing everything in her power to prevent somebody no but it's not no but there's nothing

00:46:58.280 conspiracy it's not it was a conspiracy out in the open it does but it doesn't matter if it was

00:47:02.820 it doesn't matter what part's conspiracy what part's out in the open i mean i think it's like

00:47:07.460 if people get together and talk and talk about what should we do about this phenomenon you know

00:47:12.760 if it's like if there was an asteroid hurtling toward earth and and we got in a room together

00:47:18.980 with all of our friends and had a conversation about what we could do to deflect its course right

00:47:24.360 is that a conspiracy you know like some of that conversation would be in public some of it would

00:47:28.540 be in private we have a massive problem we have an existential threat right politically speaking

00:47:34.720 i consider trump an existential threat to our democracy right now it's not he's not going to

00:47:39.160 destroy the world very likely destroy democracy in the process of protecting democracy but that doesn't

00:47:45.040 destroy no our our i'm not what i'm not suggesting at no point was i suggesting we should stuff ballots

00:47:54.280 no or or or actually break the machinery of democracy but the all political opinion is already

00:48:03.500 being just just completely inundated with misinformation bias takes half truths and outright

00:48:11.460 lies right like and and or just the amplification of of bad or misleading information based on you know

00:48:17.320 the algorithm right um so it's like it's already just an abattoir of opinion right and now the question

00:48:28.980 is you know what can you do with your own biases and your own the the to to get the outcome you think

00:48:37.800 is actually better not just for yourself personally but for the world right so like i have like it is i'm

00:48:43.240 completely unconflicted in in the claim that a that a a first trump term was bad and a second trump term

00:48:53.780 would be bad and it literally doesn't matter what was what what else was on the the menu like literally

00:49:01.860 pick a pick a random american better than trump in the in the oval office like the the likelihood that

00:49:08.980 you're going to get someone who's worse than trump given given what i consider that the is bad about

00:49:14.640 trump is i mean it's it's on the order of one in a million right like you're just not you're not

00:49:20.820 going to get you're not going to get worse than trump if you pick at random and you know hillary

00:49:25.520 clinton for all of her flaws was not worse than trump joe biden for joe biden we could have known joe

00:49:31.200 biden was going to just be comatose in office not worse than trump right um kamala harris not worse

00:49:37.640 like like it's all and and again it's not just a marginal call it's just these are people who are

00:49:44.180 normal politicians who are so much more constrained by predictable machinery right there's there's like

00:49:53.840 there's there's such less of an opportunity there to destroy institutions that we have to rely on

00:50:02.680 right with with any of those people in charge including a random person in charge a random person

00:50:07.560 who's going to be terrified at the responsibility of the office and default to expert opinion you know

00:50:13.480 across the board um no trump is again trump is an alex jones level figure for me and okay and so you

00:50:22.380 know it's it's analogous like a smaller problem is to just for some billionaire to buy the new york times

00:50:27.620 and give it to alex jones to run right that would be an enormous it would be a catastrophic loss

00:50:32.480 and mistake but that's a smaller problem than getting trump re-elected what should we know

00:50:38.400 what should people understand about this regime that we've been doing business with what are some

00:50:43.040 of the things that have been happening that a lot of a lot of outlets in the west are just not covering

00:50:49.460 well okay so the the obvious one is the organ harvesting uh you know i i call it murder for organs

00:50:55.420 industry um uh more commonly it's called the forced organ harvesting reality in china it's the only place

00:51:04.520 in the world where it's state sanctioned uh if not state directed you know there's some debate about

00:51:10.460 that among the people that are studying this um but to make a long story short well actually why don't

00:51:16.300 i'll tell a bit of a story okay i believe it was in 2006 or 2005 or 2006 um and is an israeli

00:51:24.900 transplant doctor named yakub levy um had a patient and israel has this policy where if you need to get

00:51:31.520 a trans life-saving transplant you can go out of country the state pays for that okay um he he his

00:51:37.060 patient tells him i'm going to china i'm going to get this transplant heart transplant i'm going to get it

00:51:41.840 in two weeks and yakub is as a transplant by the way head of the israeli transplant association also

00:51:48.580 he's shocked and stunned and he understands immediately that there's no ethical way that

00:51:53.680 this could happen because see a heart transplant is something that you can't actually schedule

00:51:58.340 because you would have to know when someone's going to be dead and the only way you can really

00:52:03.420 know when someone's going to be dead to give that heart is to make them so okay so you know he's kind

00:52:10.000 of stunned by this the guy goes comes back and basically he's got the transplant later there's

00:52:15.460 complications that's a different story but yakub takes the time and in a couple of years

00:52:20.660 the israeli parliament has adopted a law that says if you go to china to get a transplant

00:52:25.140 we will not pay for it one of the few countries to this day by the way that's adopted such a law

00:52:30.380 it's very very interesting but this is at this point we already knew that something terrible is

00:52:35.860 happening uh two canadian human rights uh two canadian lawyers uh uh david kilgore they call

00:52:42.820 them the two davids david colgar david made us they actually looked at the body of evidence that was

00:52:47.980 available at the time in 2006 they found yes definitely there's an industry in china the murder

00:52:54.340 for organs industry and the most likely people that are being used for it are the falun gong why the

00:52:59.800 falun gong why because they're there's millions of them in the labor camps they're a group that's

00:53:05.720 targeted for eradication so it's easy much easier for people to do things like this right murder for

00:53:12.480 organs and so forth so and i remember i interviewed david kilgore back in 2006 about this he had he had

00:53:18.120 spoken with a guy who had gone to china and got a kidney transplant they had fitted him with eight he

00:53:22.820 had a rare antibody condition they had fitted him with eight separate kidneys on two separate trips

00:53:27.940 the eighth one was the one that took because the basically the antibody situation wasn't an issue for

00:53:33.200 so you can just imagine how many people likely lost their lives along the way to get to that one

00:53:38.820 transplant um more recently okay and this is this is i think what you could call the the the best

00:53:47.480 smoking gun evidence that exists but yak i'll go back to yakub levy him and a and a journalist uh

00:53:53.920 uh matthew robertson they put they basically looked at all these chinese officially published chinese

00:54:00.640 studies in medical journals and they found through looking at protocols very carefully 71 instances in

00:54:07.940 the published literature where people had been killed by heart extraction okay the the cause of

00:54:14.820 death was certainly their heart removal of a heart and they've just they published this in the american

00:54:19.320 journal of transplantation recently so you know it's been this quest so to speak since that time to try to

00:54:25.380 convince people that this is really something that's actually happening for starters and you know

00:54:32.060 it's really only i think this year that i i hear kind of broad acceptance and there's been a lot of

00:54:37.020 hurdles and give everybody a sense of the scale of what's happening how many people do you think

00:54:41.660 are likely to have gone through this i just had a conversation with ethan gutman maybe a couple of

00:54:46.840 weeks ago ethan was i think the premier field researcher on this issue he's lived in falun gong

00:54:55.400 communities and in uighur communities this shifted later by the way into the uighur communities as

00:55:01.620 another extremely vulnerable vulnerable group to be used for this practice but um the the estimate a

00:55:09.620 credible estimate since about 2002 is 60 to 100 000 transplants a year and then if you and then i said

00:55:17.860 well that that would be could be more than a million people and ethan said no no no yan that's an

00:55:22.200 overestimate because the because of ecmo technology so ecmo is a type of machine that allows you to

00:55:28.260 replace the heart and lungs it's often used when people need very complicated surgeries and they you

00:55:33.600 know maybe around those organs or something like this so around 2007 2008 ecmo technology started being

00:55:39.400 used so you could conceivably because this is important to know you can only really transplant

00:55:44.300 from a body that's brain dead and body alive you can't transplant from cadavers so it's it it there's

00:55:50.540 limited time frame right this gives you apparently 24 according to ethan another 24 hours so you could do

00:55:56.120 multiple transplants that match tissue and and and blood and all this all this so ultimately his

00:56:02.740 estimate and i think and he's very conservative in his estimates is about half a million people

00:56:08.060 but the thing that struck me was i was looking at the black you're familiar with the black book of

00:56:13.700 communism right that chronicles the the deaths of various communist regimes this you know is

00:56:20.580 a significant just this organ harvesting regime let's take that million of 500 that's that 0.97

00:56:26.500 number of 500 000 people 500 000 people killed for organs in china is a significant number in the

00:56:35.760 list of the black book i mean alone never mind the great leap forward never mind the cultural

00:56:40.060 revolution never mind you know what happened in the soviet union so broadway's smash hit the neil

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00:57:05.080 beautiful noise now through june 7th 2026 at the princess of wells theater get tickets at mirvish.com

00:57:12.060 yeah it's been it's been pretty nuts uh so i left i was working at a a place called fair and i left

00:57:21.100 that job because i wanted to go full-time on my sub stack to tackle the gender sex denials and stuff

00:57:28.020 because to me that's just it's like the eye of the storm it's like the craziest stuff that's where i want

00:57:32.880 to focus all my attention um but then that that's kind of a scary thing because then i'm completely

00:57:37.880 reliant on payment processors i'm uh sub stack uses stripe they're pretty good um they've they've

00:57:45.280 kind of routinely come out pro free speech and things like that um but i was also using paypal

00:57:51.260 to solicit donations of people if they didn't want to just subscribe to my sub stack but they wanted to

00:57:56.780 give me donations directly monthly one-time donations or whatever they could do so through paypal

00:58:01.320 um so i had received an email from paypal just out of the blue just saying you can no longer use

00:58:07.760 paypal i think that was the the subject line and i thought this was had to be completely oh that maybe

00:58:13.520 my credit card is not working or i need to update something uh and then going through you know trying

00:58:19.920 to to turn it back on well they're every everywhere i went led to like a dead end so i called like the

00:58:26.020 the help desk just to something's clearly uh amiss here and they said that you know they would put me

00:58:33.440 in touch with somebody who'd be able to tell me what's going on expect an email well i never got

00:58:37.300 an email they sent me a message through the paypal system saying that if i want to find out why my

00:58:42.840 account was turned off that i would need to submit have an attorney submit a subpoena a legal subpoena

00:58:48.540 to find out so um yeah that's that's all i know they didn't say any reason why my account was shut

00:58:55.080 down in the first place uh so we can only imagine they've done the same thing to ian miles chong 0.99

00:59:00.400 uh they recently also shut down moms for liberty account their paypal account so this is sort of a

00:59:05.600 pattern that they have of people that they disagree with politically on this um and it puts me in a

00:59:10.800 precarious position because i'm completely reliant on these systems now i don't work for a company

00:59:15.580 i work for myself and so i need to have a way where people can pay me you know directly uh or

00:59:21.100 through through some sort of system so it's really kind of a scary thing where just some some intern

00:59:26.200 at paypal or maybe at stripe now i hope i hope they're as robust as i'm hoping they are um but you

00:59:33.180 know just a single click and they can just turn off my entire income and have you been able to appeal

00:59:37.960 or challenge in any way are you considering following the legal route i'm considering going and actually

00:59:44.080 just making them give me the reason so doing the the subpoena route so that's sort of in the works

00:59:49.660 but um we're not quite there yet uh and then also so it wasn't just paypal but i also had an etsy store

00:59:57.300 you know it wasn't like a big part of my income but every once in a while i'd sell what is it oh yeah

01:00:02.140 so etsy is like this online store that people can set up their little shops it was originally known

01:00:08.860 for people selling like homemade goods like they'd knitting or something or they'd make

01:00:13.380 earrings with rocks or something like that sounds like it should be bad anyway exactly and then it

01:00:19.680 sort of expanded more and now you can just host you can sell anything you want to shirts mugs a lot

01:00:24.340 of people use it for that just because it's it's got like low fees for people who are hosting their

01:00:27.820 stuff um and then they sent me an email saying that i can no longer use etsy i'm permanently banned

01:00:34.080 from etsy now they did give me a reason they said that my merchandise was i think the wording was

01:00:40.080 supporting and glorifying hatred against protected groups but if you actually saw the merchandise that

01:00:47.260 i had on there it was i literally only sold three things i had so my my sub stack is called realities

01:00:52.460 last stand so i had some mugs that just had the words realities last stand and they had a male and a

01:00:57.340 female symbol i had um another logo that said defender of reality and it had male and female symbol

01:01:04.540 i guess these are hate symbols now yeah um and then i had my political cartoon the poster i gave you

01:01:10.520 of the one elon musk tweeted out that just showed you know how from my perception sort of the left had

01:01:16.260 gone really left and the center had moved past me now i'm perceived as being on the right so that's

01:01:21.180 there's nothing hateful there um but apparently this was was considered glorifying violence against

01:01:26.760 minorities i did try to appeal and they said nope we stand by our decision meanwhile they do sell

01:01:33.540 things that say like you know kill turfs they have things that are like turf stoppers and a turf is

01:01:38.360 someone who like criticizes gender ideology it stands for trans exclusionary radical feminist and 1.00

01:01:43.680 they have things that are clearly glorifying violence against those types of people um but i can't sell

01:01:50.000 just like a mug that has the name of my my sub stack on it apparently a hundred years ago

01:01:55.820 how many people were confused about their gender like how many how many men were going around who

01:02:02.680 really thought that they were women i'm sure there were some like very very small number and they 0.76

01:02:06.800 were mentally ill it's a mental illness and uh if we were still a sane society we would treat that with 1.00

01:02:11.940 therapy counseling it's what you do for mentally ill people you treat their minds to the best 0.89

01:02:16.320 of your ability um this astronomical rise though in transgender identification that's obviously not

01:02:26.060 uh just mental illness it's not something people are born with there's something happening

01:02:31.960 in the culture clearly because yeah go ahead and in because in the film like the first half an hour

01:02:39.220 was really funny i was sitting there with the lads and we were you know we were laughing we're going

01:02:44.760 like oh this nutball saying these i wasn't laughing i saw all the trouble coming yeah but i was laughing

01:02:50.740 because i think you you you exposed these elements of it and it was comically humorous but then what

01:02:57.720 was terrifying is when we saw the medical professionals the doctors affirming this did you expect that because

01:03:04.660 i certainly didn't yeah i think well that's one thing i was a little bit worried about actually

01:03:08.980 with the film before it came out is that we knew we were going to have this tonal shift and i don't know

01:03:13.540 is it too abrupt is it's kind of weird and it is abrupt and weird but at the same time i think it's

01:03:17.740 also necessary that like on the surface level this is absurd and so we laugh at absurdity which is an

01:03:25.140 appropriate response um but then you go a little bit under the surface you see there's some really

01:03:28.900 sinister stuff going on and that's when you get into the the doctors who are um encouraging you know

01:03:37.800 who are sort of spreading this plague and doing it in a really intentional way and and doctors who i

01:03:43.840 think certainly know better and you know we talked to one a pediatrician in the film uh four c a who

01:03:49.860 prescribes these drugs chemical castration drugs to children and um what what was so revolting about

01:03:59.500 that aside from just you know the obvious is that when i talked to her like she had no defense of the

01:04:07.320 practice at all she was not able to even begin to defend this and yet she's doing it and so that

01:04:13.000 makes you think well if she can't defend it then she must know that this is wrong that's just my

01:04:18.060 you know that that that's my interpretation is that a lot of these people know what they're doing

01:04:23.920 is wrong and yet they do it anyway why would they do it anyway well one big thing is money there's

01:04:29.300 there's a huge financial incentive we get into that a little bit in the film but you have to keep in

01:04:33.620 mind there's billions of dollars not for one individual but like for these industries there's

01:04:37.780 billions of dollars at stake um and you think about you know you've got a six-year-old kid who's

01:04:43.440 says that you know six-year-old boy says he's confused about his gender and if you were to just say

01:04:48.960 to the six-year-old boy oh no you're a boy and help him to accept himself for who he is then that's

01:04:54.960 great that's the right thing to do but there's no money in that right if on the other hand you encourage

01:05:00.100 him to go delve even deeper into that confusion then that boy is worth thousands if not millions of

01:05:07.540 dollars to big pharma therapists doctors down the line so i think there's a real financial incentive

01:05:14.700 and you know we've interviewed a ton of people about this trans people who don't agree with some

01:05:21.360 elements of this ideology uh other people gender critical feminist etc and yet i was still shocked

01:05:28.700 by the second half of the movie were you shocked by what you found in particularly with doctors and

01:05:34.620 professors i was uh yeah that's the thing even when you encounter something that you already knew about

01:05:41.220 intellectually it's still shocking just to encounter it exactly to i knew that so-called

01:05:47.040 sex change or what they call gender affirmation surgeries now which is if a euphemism if i ever

01:05:51.160 heard one but uh i knew that that was happening and yet to sit across from someone who does this

01:05:56.580 and hear them explain it it's still shocking just to encounter it and i was also shocked there were

01:06:01.520 some things i learned like i before getting into the film making the film and researching it before we

01:06:07.380 filmed it i i i did not realize how young the kids are when they start them on the actual medical

01:06:15.880 transition part of it how young are they matt well i mean as young as uh as young as 10 11 years old

01:06:22.560 when they start them on the on the hormones and you get into puberty blockers the surgery especially

01:06:27.320 i i year and a half ago i didn't realize that they were actually that they really were mutilating

01:06:34.120 kids i thought that you know this is something that starts at the age of 18 but no i mean they

01:06:39.140 chopped the breasts off of uh 13 14 year old girls even younger sometimes i didn't i didn't realize

01:06:45.360 that and it's um i think a lot of people don't don't realize that that's happening and uh hopefully

01:06:52.320 now they do does it worry you bill that people are more divided than ever that we've got this kind

01:06:58.340 of left right divide and the left looks at the right and the right looks at the left and no one

01:07:02.520 seems to really trust each other anymore uh no i just don't think any of that's real it's not real

01:07:09.740 it's just like and the people from england and around you guys always ask these questions like

01:07:14.080 what's it like everybody yelling at each other and walking around with a machine gun and it's just like

01:07:18.880 it's like you know what i mean i'm trying to think of the stereotype of where you guys come from it's

01:07:23.420 just it's just not this it's it's it's kind of you you are what they show and what what everybody

01:07:29.880 shows now is heightened emotions because there's so many places to look at things

01:07:33.980 like crazy gets people to stop and watch but like actual you know people just chilling out

01:07:41.000 no one wants to see that they want to see like fighting and that type of thing so um

01:07:46.320 i know what you're saying but we've been talking to people

01:07:49.480 hey you've been here for a week you got it down man

01:07:51.860 please by all means tell me about my country

01:07:56.380 i'm just asking the question bill that's cool i answered it you're still going back yeah but 0.99

01:08:05.360 according you know i know you guys are going to go back to england oh they're fucking fat 0.99

01:08:09.940 everybody's got a gun in the visor of their car i know what you guys are going to do you know 1.00

01:08:13.920 actually americans are not that fat it's the fat americans who are extra fat most americans are the 0.99

01:08:19.440 same as the british well our food supply is poison yeah it was taken over by one group of people and 0.99

01:08:24.600 they own the rights to the seeds and all of that type of stuff and they forced out all of these farmers

01:08:28.620 if their seeds blew onto their property they could sue them for using their seeds and the media just

01:08:34.400 ignored all of that because they get paid by them that's sort of what is going on globally 0.97

01:08:39.780 is everybody's is just choosing money on the bag as fucking kids say nowadays um that's what the 1.00

01:08:48.920 problem is nobody is uh you know everybody's screaming and yelling about shit that doesn't 0.99

01:08:53.500 matter like stand-up comedians they'll yell about that but they won't talk about literally people uh 1.00

01:08:58.520 poisoning their own countrymen i mean they should be fucking put to death for what they did 0.99

01:09:02.520 there you go there's a hot take i mean i know if i did it if i did it if i fucking went to 1.00

01:09:09.480 one donut shop and put something in a fucking donut that hurt somebody or caused them to have 0.98

01:09:15.040 some sort of medical episode that would be a i would not be sitting here right now but they somehow 0.99

01:09:20.080 you know you know how it is catholic church can do what they do kind of move people around and 0.98

01:09:26.120 everything's all right as long as you're fucking you know you're paying people it's good so that's what 0.96

01:09:32.060 it is you talk a lot about masculinity in your current special why is it that you talk about it so 0.99

01:09:39.240 much now was it because i never talked about masculinity i talked about myself okay right

01:09:43.960 and then you're rebranding it as masculine masculinity okay i'm just glad you didn't say toxic

01:09:48.560 but you know i the reason i guess why i spoke about masculinity is because it's a lot of

01:09:55.920 a lot of things that men connect with you know that feeling you know of anger you know the the

01:10:01.000 relationship with the father not being able to process that having kids being a dad and going

01:10:06.000 oh i don't want to pass this stuff on to my kid right i'm sure my dad thought that i think

01:10:11.660 i mean my kids will think that there's always stuff that you're gonna like

01:10:15.040 you know you're gonna make mistakes um i just think the big thing is apologizing to him

01:10:22.620 and addressing in the moment that you did it that you messed up and that you're really sorry and

01:10:28.980 then i go back to it two or three times um i did that messed up the other day with my daughter and

01:10:35.060 then uh i was saying yeah i can't believe i did that i'm really the third time i apologize i was

01:10:40.220 like uh it makes me sad that i did that and she was like i don't want you to be sad i was just like

01:10:45.280 all right it's good we're good now yeah it was really cute i became a dad a few months ago so i

01:10:50.040 haven't got to that stage yet how has that changed you the experience of being becoming a father

01:10:54.560 and being a father um oh god i actually the thing i learned is like you know you think you know you

01:11:01.900 buy some huge house and they have all the toys and then you're gonna have like this you're gonna

01:11:07.660 raise a good empathetic person it's not how it works it's like you can give them everything in

01:11:12.060 the world the one the biggest thing that they need is your time so if you're busy like everybody in

01:11:18.200 this business is um you have to say no to stuff and you have to like you know like my big thing

01:11:25.720 was i went on you know everything has an app now like my daughter's school has an app so i just looked

01:11:31.400 up when's her fall break when's the christmas break when's february when's april and i just

01:11:35.860 sent that to everybody i'm not working these weeks so um 0.75

01:11:40.540 you know uh yeah she said some like heartbreaking shit to me like kids just kids really get to like 0.93

01:11:49.120 you know i shot a movie earlier this year and she's like dad can you you know can you hang out 0.95

01:11:55.020 with me today and i was like ah you know i go i gotta work today she's like ah and i said no

01:11:58.460 i go i'm i got two more days left in this movie and she goes uh she goes i don't like when you do

01:12:05.760 movies i was like i don't like it i go i don't like it either and then she goes i go but i'm done in

01:12:10.420 two days and she goes good then you can play with me forever and i was like

01:12:14.280 and he just walk out like i am the worst parent but it's just like this is how i 0.98

01:12:20.120 fucking pay for our life so i have to go do this shit so um like those things you have to let those 0.99

01:12:29.080 things land and sit in the pain of them and be like all right i need to make sure i do and it's 0.99

01:12:34.100 like i'm gonna have to go to work so i just have to make sure i don't work i gotta have that balance

01:12:40.120 of you know keeping the lights on and then like like being there but like i am there a lot though

01:12:46.220 that is a great thing about this job is like i kind of work when i want to work um it's just once

01:12:51.360 every two weeks i go away for three days you know on you know some sort of gig or whatever but i don't

01:12:56.200 do anything longer than like three three four days the last question we ask and this is going to sound

01:13:01.160 funny given what you've just said is what's the one thing when not bad not bad been a long day dude

01:13:09.260 you ask him the question yeah okay so theo the last question we always ask is what's the thing

01:13:15.160 is this mirror this is a good mirror yeah it is a good mirror did this chain be out the whole time

01:13:21.760 oh no it's good all right what's the one thing we're not talking about that we really should be

01:13:29.800 i think they

01:13:36.520 oh dude i remember one time i saw these

01:13:42.080 massive birds right they call them in your country yeah massive birds beautiful strong

01:13:49.540 uh i swear bro i went to this i went to this place called newcastle have you heard of this

01:13:57.160 yes yep we've heard of newcastle and this taxi drops me off and there was these it was like a

01:14:04.460 part like a i don't know if it looked like a bachelorette party or something and in this

01:14:09.280 foyer of like a big there was a big room like a big window and they were in there naked 0.99

01:14:15.760 you know what do you call it tits yes yes tits and they were beating each other with pillows in 1.00

01:14:23.740 there bro and i sat out there and watched smoke the cigarette out there right out there and that's 0.96

01:14:29.360 the one thing that was talking about huh that's the one thing i was talking about there was seven of

01:14:34.080 these women in there i can see why you brought it up yeah it's an important point it was serious man

01:14:41.660 oh that's fantastic well it was serious bro see i can't even do it justice because you can't even

01:14:49.520 believe that it could happen could you how who would get seven women naked and have them pillow fight 0.98

01:14:55.960 in front of a big huge picture window someone's thought they wanted to be seen for you i don't know 1.00

01:15:00.780 man that's fucking that's beautiful bro it's good shit man all right so where you guys headed next man 1.00

01:15:07.540 uh we're going to see the comedy show that you're part of oh shit man i forgot 1.00

01:15:12.760 you 0.99

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TRIGGERnometry - November 21, 2022

Sam Harris Interview That Broke the Internet + Other TRIGGERnometry USA Interview Highlights

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Transcript