TRIGGERnometry - Steven Woolfe：＂Immigration is Out of Control

00:00:00.640 There's no control of migration on this border at all.

00:00:03.920 We've got more people coming in.

00:00:06.080 So this year's 200,000.

00:00:08.280 Huge numbers.

00:00:09.840 And it costs around £40,000 for each individual in the first year.

00:00:15.080 That's about £8 billion.

00:00:22.420 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry.

00:00:25.140 I'm Francis Foster.

00:00:26.420 I'm Constantine Kissing.

00:00:27.540 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:00:33.020 Our brilliant guest today is the founder for the Centre for Migration and Economic Prosperity,

00:00:37.080 Stephen Wolfe.

00:00:37.560 Welcome to Trigonometry.

00:00:38.420 Thank you very much, guys.

00:00:39.480 I really appreciate you bringing me on.

00:00:40.840 It's really great to have you on the show.

00:00:42.440 Before we get into the conversation, I'll tell everybody a little bit about who are you,

00:00:46.480 how are you, where you are, what is the journey that brings you to be sitting here talking

00:00:49.580 to us?

00:00:50.340 Well, I'm a Manc.

00:00:51.120 So from your colleague over here, we've already had the kind of Manchester-Liverpool argument.

00:00:55.300 I was born in Manchester and I grew up in a couple of council estates.

00:01:00.680 One Moss Side, which most people recognise as being from the riots of the 80s, a pretty

00:01:06.440 rough area.

00:01:08.000 And then growing up in Withington near a park where I used to do breakdancing and football.

00:01:13.240 So that was a brilliant thing.

00:01:14.740 I was lucky enough to have a family, Irish grandmother, English grandfather, black American

00:01:22.580 grandfather and a Jewish grandmother, who kind of, even though we lived on a council estate,

00:01:29.400 believed that the way forward to get on was by education and just keep pushing, never allowing

00:01:35.940 people to define you by who you are and just keep climbing that ladder.

00:01:40.200 But being decent along the way, trying not to be nasty to others, it's not always the

00:01:45.100 way that the world works.

00:01:46.320 And so we read a lot.

00:01:47.760 And I won a scholarship to a, what was then a grammar school, became a private school,

00:01:51.660 St. Bede's.

00:01:52.460 From there, university, studied law in Aberystwyth, went on, became a barrister, won a number

00:01:57.960 of international awards across the globe for debating, went to the world championships,

00:02:03.240 you know, got to the quarterfinals where Gove was actually judging.

00:02:07.080 So, you know, met a number of people with those.

00:02:09.700 And that was always a fascinating part.

00:02:12.780 After being a barrister for a number of years, I then moved into the city of London.

00:02:17.720 So not really very far from here, worked in Canary Wharf, worked over the city, and I

00:02:22.540 moved into hedge funds, regulatory law, became general counsel.

00:02:26.620 So by the time I decided to move into the heady world of Brexit politics and leaving the European

00:02:33.480 Union and joining UKIP, which for many was, you know, it's a kind of, well, what's this

00:02:38.900 kind of mixed race working class boy joining this racist UKIP party about, as it all was

00:02:43.540 around 2010-ish.

00:02:47.140 It was very strange for me to have been working in this environment in the city and doing some

00:02:53.980 really big transactions.

00:02:55.560 I mean, I worked on one of the deals when guys had got fined, Barclays Bank had got fined

00:03:00.920 about, I think it was about 500 million by the US authorities, and I had to do their global

00:03:05.780 market conduct policy.

00:03:07.420 That was big, big issues there through the crash.

00:03:11.240 And then I went into politics, and I campaigned for Brexit, joined UKIP, obviously at one stage

00:03:19.640 looking at the leadership from there, and, you know, many people look online and see what

00:03:23.660 happened when I left and became independent, spent five years, which was fascinating, really

00:03:29.180 interesting seeing how global politics interacted with European politics and UK politics.

00:03:35.820 I loved campaign, just meeting ordinary people during that campaign from 2010 right through

00:03:44.120 14 elections, right through 15 and then the 16 referendum, where ordinary people felt that

00:03:51.520 they were empowered, that they had a voice, that they generally were going to be listened

00:03:56.620 to.

00:03:56.920 And this time the elites had a chance to have a kick in and hopefully change their minds

00:04:01.300 about how they viewed them.

00:04:02.900 That was one of the most exhilarating parts of my life, seeing freedom in action and real,

00:04:10.160 real freedom within people's spirits and hearts.

00:04:13.320 And, but we are where we are now.

00:04:16.460 I then lost my businesses that I saved for a rainy day through COVID and then decided, well,

00:04:25.740 I have an eight-year-old, I should be nine soon.

00:04:28.680 As a father, you just can't allow your children to see you give up.

00:04:33.660 And I don't think it's easy in this country to give up, because if you do, then it's an easy

00:04:38.900 slide into absolutely nothing.

00:04:40.960 I came from nothing, I could go back to nothing, but I don't really want to.

00:04:46.180 So I decided to try and rebuild through one of the issues which I think will not go away,

00:04:53.060 which is immigration, and through where voices of people are still being ignored, certainly

00:04:58.580 with the channel migrant crisis that we have at the moment.

00:05:02.020 And I established the Center for Migration and Economic Prosperity.

00:05:05.360 So I think that's probably tried to put 54 years into, you know, less, more than 54

00:05:10.620 seconds, I'm afraid.

00:05:11.740 Yeah, well, you've done very well to do that.

00:05:13.520 And we want to talk to you about class and immigration particularly.

00:05:17.100 But it's just occurred to me that one of the things that you obviously would have an interesting

00:05:21.740 perspective on, given your background and your heritage, what do you make of the way we

00:05:28.060 talk about race in our society at the moment?

00:05:30.100 You know, divisive, absolutely.

00:05:32.620 And it is very much us and them.

00:05:35.560 It's either that you are a pro-migrationist open door and therefore you're kind and you're

00:05:40.800 warm and you're generous.

00:05:42.660 And if you support any form of controlled migration, whether it's through border controls,

00:05:48.480 through visas, through the Immigration Act that's going through, then you are a racist,

00:05:54.160 or as a xenophobe, and you're anti-human being.

00:05:57.120 And you should therefore be pushed aside.

00:05:59.860 I think there's also a huge amount of class involved in that if you're well off, if you're

00:06:04.220 university educated with an opportunity of life to be able to benefit here in the UK or

00:06:10.180 be able to move around the global networks, as I have fortunately been able to work in

00:06:15.580 the US, work in Hong Kong.

00:06:17.660 If you're able to do that too, then you're part of a global elite which relies seriously

00:06:23.400 heavily on the low income and wages of migrants coming in, filling the jobs that you like, 1.00

00:06:28.960 getting into the coffee shop as you turn up at the airport, you know, getting your taxi

00:06:32.440 that's taken you there.

00:06:33.780 All of these are what's regarded as low income jobs that you wouldn't deem to do yourself.

00:06:39.360 But you will insult the home people of that country, and here in the UK might predominantly 0.94

00:06:46.440 be regarded as white working class individuals, as gammons or whatever, will insult you because

00:06:52.680 you won't do those jobs, rather than considering why don't they do their jobs, isn't it because

00:06:58.480 perhaps the incomes of those jobs are not sufficient for them to have a family and a house in the

00:07:03.720 area that they want to live in.

00:07:05.640 So I think that divisive element that is clearly there as part of an elitist strategy to divide

00:07:15.020 particular political parties, Labour does it more.

00:07:18.920 I think the Liberal Democrats and the Greens do it to consolidate their intellectual base

00:07:24.760 as they do so.

00:07:26.180 But I think it's also been used, and we might come on to that with like Black Lives Matter and

00:07:30.940 all the rest of it, as a very violent vehicle now for division in this country, to try and

00:07:37.020 manipulate the minds of individuals, that those who don't have this kind of global elitist

00:07:42.980 idea, and I do believe it's organised by large corporates who benefit the most, and those in

00:07:48.900 large international organisations who benefit from the billions that are being put into migration

00:07:54.220 issues, they're the ones who benefit the most, and we need to create now an intellectual

00:07:58.940 divide between people.

00:08:01.020 Stephen, why is it that these elites, let's call them that, why is it they don't understand

00:08:07.320 this?

00:08:07.600 Why is it that they don't get it?

00:08:08.900 Because to me, it's a fairly simple concept.

00:08:12.500 Yeah, but if you live on the lap of luxury, if you're just going to get up in the morning,

00:08:17.260 get on, and let's just take it as you, part of what Orwell said in 1984, the 13% of the

00:08:22.920 outer rink or the outer level. If you're going off in the morning and you get your train and

00:08:28.140 you hit into the city of London and you're a banker or a hedge fund lawyer, or you're

00:08:32.680 an accountant there or one of the IT guys who are doing really, really well, then for

00:08:37.420 you, it's not something that you will see on a day-to-day basis. I mean, you're getting

00:08:42.600 a reasonable bonus and a good salary to be able to buy a house in a nice area which doesn't

00:08:46.940 have the impact that you see in mass migration. So if you take my street where I lived in

00:08:53.740 Manchester, in kind of Withington at the end, but even if you take it right back to Moss

00:08:59.540 Side, in Moss Side, it was predominantly those who'd come from the West Indies who were living

00:09:04.680 in there. And that has changed somewhat over time. You know, you get Somalians have come 1.00

00:09:09.220 in, certain parts of Hume. But if you look at down Withington, that was predominantly white

00:09:15.400 working class and Irish working class. And the immigrants there were those who'd come

00:09:19.840 over, or like my grandmother at the age of 14, to work for the nuns. And all those whose

00:09:26.280 families were first or second generation. Similar types of culture, you know, Christian

00:09:30.760 Judeo basis. You might say, okay, they're all white. Fair enough. But so was like 98% of 0.97

00:09:36.040 the population till roughly just after the 60s. That's what England was based upon. Now, if

00:09:41.780 you go down to the same streets, it is, if I'm right, in terms of the demographics, it's

00:09:47.840 more Pakistani based community now that is stretched across from the Levin Schumann Long

00:09:53.720 Side coming down. Now, many of them have lived there for a long time, they've got successful

00:09:58.020 businesses, they're working in jobs, nothing to say they don't do the same level of hard

00:10:02.400 work. But the communities are different. They have a different religion. So that might clash,

00:10:07.520 people might say, I don't like that religion. Some might say, I love it. The idea is that

00:10:11.760 community is no longer the same. Now, that change there, which impacts the working class,

00:10:18.800 and even the lower middle class more than the upper classes, is that when I leave university,

00:10:26.320 I might have had a boyfriend or a girlfriend who is from Bangladesh, or from Abu Dhabi, or from China.

00:10:33.100 And they're going off to be a banker in New York. Well, that's fine. We've had the same

00:10:38.780 intellectual levels, and we're interested in the same things. Let's get in a big house.

00:10:42.280 Let's get in the great bonuses. Let's be able to go off to the Hamptons on the weekends, fine,

00:10:46.600 our jets to Dubai and have our five-star holidays. It doesn't really matter to them,

00:10:52.180 because the poverty levels at the bottom, they never see. They don't have to go into those areas.

00:10:58.360 They don't even have to get drugs in those areas now, because they can probably get, 0.78

00:11:02.100 you know, a drone or Uber to be able to, sorry, you know, there have been one or two cases where

00:11:06.840 people like that. But you know, I mean, it's on the internet, and people can send it. They called

00:11:11.380 it. Anyway, let's not go down there just in case it's picked up as being something that,

00:11:16.900 but you know the point. So they're up there. They don't need to. And if they want their drugs or

00:11:20.840 their, you know, whatever it is, they put a call in and someone flies in in a pretty nice car

00:11:25.880 and whatever, it's delivered to them. So they're separate.

00:11:29.260 They're insulated from the consequences of the rags.

00:11:31.900 Absolutely. Of course they are. And they're insulated by their own wealth and ease of life

00:11:38.560 that comes with having that division. And then it comes to something I think is intellectually

00:11:44.960 there for them. I've been trying to ponder an aspect about it when you read, I think it's in

00:11:50.720 England by England by George Orwell, where he talks about, even, you know, in the 1900s,

00:11:57.320 how the middle class of England would rather be more comfortable talking to a foreigner than someone 0.74

00:12:02.340 from the working class estates of their own. And they have more of an affinity of that.

00:12:09.080 And I generally think that there are two aspects about that. One is class and snobbery.

00:12:14.300 So racism is something that is a cultural aspect about Britain. We can go right back to

00:12:20.740 beyond the Romans to see evidence of that. But so is snobbery. Snobbery is the second pillar

00:12:27.280 of our cultural heritage. And it is something that firmly fits into the class system that we have

00:12:33.680 developed over years. So you can quite easily sit at a conversational table and say those Brits don't

00:12:40.320 want to do the work. They just don't want to do the work. They're too lazy. They're too thick.

00:12:45.040 They're too stupid. The same arguments that floated through Brexit. And I think for them, 1.00

00:12:51.400 it's an easy thing to divide. Look at me. Haven't I done well? Didn't I start my business on my own

00:12:57.780 and now look at my house and, you know, I've got my second home down in Devon. It's wonderful.

00:13:02.980 Not like that. Scum over there. You know, won't get up in the morning and do a job. So it's that 0.99

00:13:08.360 snobbery element to protect themselves, insulate themselves. And therefore, that permeates

00:13:15.760 downwards from the very elites who have real wealth, where they really benefit from mass

00:13:20.620 migration, to those in the next tier down who think, well, we need to follow along those lines.

00:13:25.840 But it's always because they are, as you say, hidden from the consequences at the bottom level

00:13:31.760 of housing, hospitals, schools, wages. All of those are impacted at the lower levels, never at the top.

00:13:40.600 Hey, Francis, have you decided what to get your dad for Father's Day?

00:13:43.960 Same thing as always. A couple of pints down the dog and duck. Plus, a new Brexit means Brexit car

00:13:50.920 sticker to replace the one I got him last year.

00:13:53.820 Mate, Brexit was in 2016. Do you not think he might want something a bit more up to date,

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00:14:13.280 Great idea. He can also put his Brexit sticker on it, which means the problematic older ladies are 1.00

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00:15:08.140 And the problem is, because they're impacted, what happens is it just seems to be this chasm

00:15:15.760 that means that they just can't empathise. And we saw it with COVID. I remember talking

00:15:21.940 to a friend of mine who, you know, works at a very, very well-to-to public school, you

00:15:26.840 know, very in favour of lockdowns, very in favour that, you know, this was a good thing

00:15:31.500 and a positive thing. He just couldn't get his head around the fact that this was crippling

00:15:35.800 ordinary people and ordinary people's businesses. Just couldn't get his head around it.

00:15:39.940 Yeah. And they just don't seem to understand now because the divisive element in our society,

00:15:46.440 even look at the economics of it. I think I look at how fortunate I am in the sense that

00:15:54.660 born in 1967, we still had a grammar school system that enabled large numbers of working

00:16:02.900 class men, predominantly men, I say at the time, but certainly women were coming through at those

00:16:07.320 stages through the 60s and 70s to start getting into the educational levels. Now, I went through

00:16:12.540 law, but you'll see that there's some great actors that followed similar routes to be able

00:16:16.960 to do that. You saw them coming into the civil service. You also have the second element that

00:16:21.780 was the, what I regard, the transitory unification of Britain that was caused by the First and Second

00:16:29.620 World War, where if everybody looks at duty of the Queen, there were huge numbers of people

00:16:36.180 who had duty of the crown and the country at their heart because they'd risked their lives

00:16:41.400 for it in the Second World War. They'd literally watched people die next to them. I mean, I talk

00:16:47.540 about my grandfather sitting in a pub on his own in the Green End in Manchester, which is gone now

00:16:53.480 for housing due to large-scale migration. Let's get rid of it and just build more houses, which are going 0.99

00:16:59.180 to see huge amounts more in the country now. And he would sit there and become silent when he,

00:17:07.500 and you knew, everyone said, leave Jim alone when he'd do that with his brandy and whatever,

00:17:11.180 because he was memorising, remembering the death and destruction. But that unification also came

00:17:17.500 through with the grammar school system in the 60s and 70s, where this was a supportive element for the

00:17:22.240 nation as a whole. And more and more people like myself got through. And I don't see that now. Yes,

00:17:29.720 more people are going into university, but what we've seen is that income division has, instead of

00:17:36.200 what we saw in the 60s and 70s, becoming more spread, the total income and capital of the country

00:17:43.000 being spread out more, it's now contracted. Anyone will tell you that the rich have definitely become

00:17:47.420 richer over the past 10, 15 years, maybe even 20. And certainly, the middle classes have become

00:17:54.180 squeezed, not just here, but in the United States, more visibly, perhaps in Australia. But it's

00:18:00.000 happening all across the Commonwealth in those countries. And why is that happening? It's happening

00:18:05.780 predominantly because we've got large-scale mass migration, which is increasing the numbers of

00:18:11.420 lower-income individuals. And we've had the use of stock markets and capital growth in housing that

00:18:18.720 is protecting those who already have those assets. So they don't need to see us. They're quite happy

00:18:25.520 to be separated from us. And I'm trying to, and your audience will pick up on a movie. There was a movie

00:18:33.120 where literally the wealthy lived in space, and they just took the assets from those down on Earth.

00:18:41.420 And the chasm there was actually space. And I think that was a metaphor for expressing where

00:18:49.520 they are now. The chasm is that they're sitting, whether it's in their park lane houses or sitting

00:18:58.040 in their big flats in New York overlooking the parks there, they've got their space between them

00:19:03.320 and us. And they might turn around and say, oh, look, I'm going to have a wonderful ball or a party.

00:19:10.040 You know, for the charity events. But that's just really solving their souls, solving their

00:19:15.900 consciences, and actually also making themselves look good. And the politicians that go along with

00:19:21.440 that from the political parties, whether it's the Labour Party or Democrats in the United States,

00:19:26.300 they're actually also working and conniving with those who really just don't care.

00:19:31.520 Stephen, you talk about mass immigration. I think before we carry on, we should maybe explain to

00:19:39.000 people what is actually going on. Because for a lot of people, they'll have a particular view of it,

00:19:45.480 but it will be local to them, or it will be based on the headline that they've read.

00:19:49.860 Now, I came to this country from Russia in 1995. At that point, I think the level of immigration was

00:19:55.540 about 60,000 a year, 70,000 a year, something like that. And at that time, 3% of the British public

00:20:01.140 thought that immigration was a major issue. In other words, people felt fairly comfortable with

00:20:05.800 what was happening. They didn't feel particularly disrupted. Their lives were not being damaged by

00:20:11.040 people only coming. What have we seen in the last 25, 30 years?

00:20:17.280 Well, the level of net migration that's come in is consistently over 200,000 to 250,000 now for 10 years or more.

00:20:25.280 So you're adding an extra 250,000 that's coming into the country. Now, some of them are coming for students,

00:20:31.580 some of them are coming for work, others are family reunions, but the numbers are huge. So what that's doing

00:20:37.980 is increasing the population. Then that's what we might call the legal migration levels.

00:20:45.120 Then you've got what some will call illegal immigration stroke asylum on there. And it's

00:20:52.040 the argument that they're illegal until they make an application for asylum. I don't really want to

00:20:55.920 make that distinction as such. What I will say is that there is certainly illegal immigration into

00:21:00.380 the country, but there's also genuine asylum seekers. And we must, always must make that clear

00:21:05.460 distinction between them. Do we know approximately what sort of numbers we're talking about, which is

00:21:11.120 not people who are genuine people fleeing terror and war and whatever, but people who are

00:21:16.480 capitalizing, let's say, on opportunity that I don't blame them for, right? They're trying to make a

00:21:20.720 better life for themselves. I don't think any of us can make that argument. You want to do the same

00:21:25.100 if you could. Exactly. So, but what kind of numbers are we talking about on an annual basis with just the

00:21:31.940 purely illegal immigration that we don't think is genuine asylum seekers? Oh, right. Okay. Well,

00:21:36.660 I think what we have to try and work backwards if we can, because the UK's statistical bodies

00:21:44.500 cannot make any assessment of what is illegal migration. In fact, they just published a report

00:21:50.200 on the 24th of February, which almost at the top is saying, we cannot tell you what illegal migration

00:21:55.840 is into this country. What they will tell you is that migration flows from people coming on boats,

00:22:02.120 which is popular at the moment, but they've been coming in backs of lorries,

00:22:05.380 trains and planes for decades now. So, and some of those will be asylum seekers. Some of those will 1.00

00:22:12.240 be illegal. There'll be overstayers who will come over on a visa for education and disappear 0.84

00:22:17.740 into the ether. They're illegal. And what we will then have is other levels in between that. So,

00:22:25.560 they're trying to say you can't fix the numbers. The statistical bodies are trying to formulate a way in

00:22:31.800 which they can assess that. But we do have research from the US, from the UK, from Holland,

00:22:37.860 that has been reported, even to an extent, I think it was about 15 years ago, we had reports

00:22:43.900 that I've been looking at recently, that would indicate that we have between 600,000 and 1.2 million

00:22:50.340 illegal migrants in this country. Those are huge numbers. And when you look at what's coming over 1.00

00:22:56.820 on the boats at the moment, so we start just on the boats, 891 in 2019, 8,000 odd in 2020, 18,000

00:23:06.920 in 2021. This year, they're estimating that we might have 60 to 100,000 coming on that boat route.

00:23:12.820 Wow. Okay. You add then that we've had about 25,000 coming through legal routes from Syria,

00:23:20.680 and we're setting up with Afghanistan. So, generally, one could argue that we get around 100,000 a year

00:23:28.640 that are coming in through all the various routes to add on to the net migration levels. Many of those

00:23:35.780 people will then move into the asylum process, of which about 98% of them make the application.

00:23:42.820 About 60% of them are successful. But then, we don't remove those who are unsuccessful.

00:23:50.620 So, you can have cataclysmic issues by those who are not removed, as we saw with the attempted bomber

00:23:57.260 in Liverpool. So, we do know that there are hundreds of thousands of people out there who are not being

00:24:04.120 removed, who failed not only the asylum application, but we're not removing them. Now, you can ask why.

00:24:10.620 People will argue that, look, actually, we've only got really, on average, around 35,000 to 40,000 a year

00:24:17.080 in terms of asylum applications. That's the same as came over through the boats, sorry, in the lorries 0.95

00:24:23.980 and the vans over the past decades or so. To an extent, that is true. But that hides the overall picture of

00:24:30.640 those who get here, overstay and hide, etc. And I think what we're going to see now is bigger numbers.

00:24:35.680 So, if we take Afghanistan, for example, Afghanistan is wholly different to Syria. Population is twice as

00:24:45.840 much. In Afghanistan, we'd spent trillions each year building up a middle class or a class that we

00:24:53.460 thought we could work with. So, these people have gone from the time of when the Taliban were in charge

00:24:58.360 of 98% poverty level with just that 2%. We've actually added an extra 10 to half a million people

00:25:04.760 there who have now got used to having televisions, going to the malls, having restaurants, all funded

00:25:10.080 from our taxpayers' money, effectively, because their economy doesn't create enough to feed them 0.86

00:25:15.280 and create that lifestyle for them. They'll want to leave now. The Taliban are making it clear

00:25:20.780 that they can leave. In Syria, there is border controls. In Afghanistan, there's not. We have 0.96

00:25:27.360 drone footage that shows 1,500 vehicles leaving in a day with 10, 20 people on the backs of lorries,

00:25:33.100 paying $10 to the Taliban border guards to get out, then paying $5,000 to get them over into Turkey,

00:25:41.660 $5,000 again to get them over, sorry, $1,500, $5,000 to get them over to Calais, and then €5,000

00:25:49.900 to get them into the UK, about average £12,000. Some of them can pay for that because they've had

00:25:55.420 savings or they sell their watches or jewellery. Others can't. But why we're expecting large numbers

00:26:02.840 to flow is because they're all still the same numbers coming from Iran and Iraq, about 84% of

00:26:10.740 everybody that comes over on the boats are from those two countries. And those routes are now

00:26:16.080 well-trodden. The people traffickers, who are a separate body mainly to the drug traffickers,

00:26:22.340 are interlinked at certain stages for protection elements where they pay a tithe to do so,

00:26:28.080 they can now allow those numbers to come through. So if you expect this year the conservative estimates

00:26:34.380 are 60,000, the median estimates to 100,000. I don't think that's unsubstantiated. Plus,

00:26:41.480 we're going to have to take large numbers of Ukrainians in as well. And the numbers there are

00:26:45.880 estimated between, you know, 50,000 to 100,000. So this year is 200,000. Huge numbers. And it costs

00:26:53.540 around £40,000 for each individual in the first year. That's about 8 billion if we take all those

00:27:00.840 numbers in one year. So there's costs, there's housing, where are we going to look after them,

00:27:05.060 where are we going to feed them? So it's really significant things that government has to have

00:27:09.400 policies for. Stephen, I think one of the things that a lot of people watching and listening to

00:27:13.380 this will struggle to reconcile is, I think most of us do, and I certainly do, is on the one hand,

00:27:19.220 everyone in this room is a descendant of immigrants. I am a first-generation immigrant.

00:27:24.140 Francis, mum's an immigrant. You talked about your background, our staff, the same.

00:27:29.740 How do we reconcile the desire to protect people who are fleeing difficult situations, war, conflict,

00:27:37.000 murder, torture, all of that horrible stuff that happens elsewhere in the world? And our desire to

00:27:42.560 be compassionate, because we are incredibly privileged and extraordinarily fortunate to be

00:27:47.460 living in the UK, in the West more broadly. We are rich, we are safe, our countries are stable,

00:27:53.520 they're, you know, democratic, you might argue, right? Like, we enjoy tremendous privilege. And it

00:27:59.780 is a natural human thing, I think, to feel compassion and empathy for people who don't have

00:28:04.560 that and who want to have it. I would love every person in the world to be as wealthy and as

00:28:09.300 comfortable as we are. I would. And I think most people would. How do we reconcile that with the

00:28:15.540 practical reality of what happens to a country when there is this level of churn and rapid change

00:28:20.960 and the security issues that come with immigration from certain parts of the world, etc, etc? How do we

00:28:26.420 how do we square that circle in our heads? It's not going to be an easy thing to square because you have

00:28:32.200 to look at your heart and your head in terms of this. So let's try and break it down if I if I can. I do

00:28:40.220 believe that we've got to have legislation in place. And of course, we've got the international agreements

00:28:45.320 through the UN refugees, regulations and laws that enable people as we're seeing now, a genuine asylum

00:28:53.240 issue happening in Ukraine that deals with that. And I think that's perfectly fair. Every country who

00:28:59.480 signs up to that has to have a responsibility in order to treat people fairly and look after them.

00:29:04.600 And we then need to assess the global net global issues. So the UN are estimating we've got something

00:29:12.940 around 66 million people moving around in terms of this migrant flow, illegal or asylum, but generally

00:29:21.220 moving to get out of their homes. The issues that we have to face is a recognition of modernity of our

00:29:29.660 life and the ease of travel and technology. Technology has been sending messages to people

00:29:36.240 in small parts of Africa that never had televisions to say, look at London, the streets are paved to gold. 0.94

00:29:43.260 For those in Guatemala, where whole villages have left to cross over the borders into Texas,

00:29:48.780 the US place of land of honey and gold again, sort of thing. So their lives are distinctly better

00:29:56.680 when they get here in the sense that they're not struggling in the way for food and daily living.

00:30:04.180 So that's an economic migrant issue. So the question we have to ask ourselves is,

00:30:11.460 are we going to accept everybody, genuine refugees and economic migrants, and just allow everyone to

00:30:18.940 move? Because if you do that, you've got good examples of what happens. In Germany, when Merkel said,

00:30:24.620 I will open the borders, they've now had over 2.5 million people since 2014. It's an extra cost of

00:30:30.160 between 10 and 15 billion a year to that nation. And you could see the economic changes. You say we're

00:30:38.100 wealthy nations, but we're not really. Look at the average salaries of some of the people in the north

00:30:43.500 of England. I keep pointing this out, the difference between living in London, where people's average

00:30:49.120 salaries seem to be around 40,000, 50,000 a year, compared to 20,000. You can still buy houses for

00:30:56.460 80,000 in the north of England, where that wouldn't even get you a front door, I think, somewhere in

00:31:03.180 London, you know. So the poverty levels up there, and I don't see people going into the really poor

00:31:08.880 areas of England. They kind of ignore it. It just doesn't exist to them. And so we are creating

00:31:15.600 huge poverty gaps here in the UK by importing those people who are incredibly poor from elsewhere.

00:31:21.360 So is the solution to say, let's just open the doors? Well, in that case, you're only going to

00:31:26.980 get about 20-odd countries in the world that are going to be able to take the numbers. Look at the

00:31:32.020 populations of the world, billions. If we said, let's open the door, those billions will want to move.

00:31:37.820 And what happens to our economies then? Do we stay wealthy? I don't think so. We're already

00:31:43.560 becoming the most dense country in Europe. I think there was, over the past few months,

00:31:48.780 we're still balancing between Holland and ourselves, as England is the most dense place.

00:31:53.340 When they come here, they concentrate into certain areas, London, Birmingham, the cities primarily.

00:32:00.920 But if you look at places like Winchester, where I've come from, we're building huge numbers of

00:32:05.640 housing, 4,000, 5,000, 6,000 houses. We've got an estimate for building another 57,000 houses.

00:32:12.320 Over the past few years, we're on average building around 165,000 houses a year. And yet house prices

00:32:20.000 aren't falling. And we still have people living on the streets. We still have a quarter of a million

00:32:24.560 people living in homeless shelters and one-bedroom flats and bedsits. We can't build enough houses

00:32:31.380 to accommodate those already living here and expect to be able to do that when coming through.

00:32:37.760 So there are no easy solutions. Let's get this right. No one should say just closing the border

00:32:46.240 will solve the problem overnight, because then we are disregarding our responsibilities to those

00:32:51.440 in other parts of the world. For a start, we shouldn't be developing war-like situations with

00:32:56.340 other countries. We shouldn't be interfering in nations to do regime change, as we've done in how

00:33:02.440 many countries over the past 10 years. Someone estimated that at one stage the CIA are involved

00:33:07.640 in 130 countries where they're operating to try and do regime change or get their particular people

00:33:15.460 in power. Well, maybe China's doing the same. Maybe other countries are involved in that. But every time

00:33:20.980 you do that, you create conflict. You get armed war. You get murder. You get death. And when that happens,

00:33:27.540 people want to flee. So our responsibility as a nation should actually, as the United Nations,

00:33:34.460 not be just trying to dole out cash to salvage your conscience for the problems that you're creating.

00:33:40.360 You should be looking at how we can create peace and stability in those countries first and foremost

00:33:45.040 by stop saying we're backing the big corporates to we want them to take over your country.

00:33:50.040 We want all your assets. And actually leave it to the people in charge,

00:33:54.220 and then help them create economies in their countries that grow

00:33:57.700 and then support their nations. And those people want to stay.

00:34:03.020 Now, that's where I say it's not going to be easy.

00:34:05.720 Because we cannot, as a small nation, absorb the world's mass migration 1.00

00:34:10.260 from conflict to economic migration.

00:34:13.700 And if they're right, maybe environmental issues as well.

00:34:16.540 Now, we can't do that without creating an even bigger gap between those at the bottom

00:34:22.160 and those at the top. We must start looking at how we can try and create a peaceful environment

00:34:28.080 and invest in nations to develop their own economies.

00:34:32.920 If we can do that, then we go some way to try and solve those issues.

00:34:36.820 Because it's a bit hypocritical of us saying to Syrian refugees,

00:34:39.880 you're not allowed in when you look at what's happened to their homeland,

00:34:43.320 you know, which we have played a part in.

00:34:45.140 Absolutely. I mean, you've talked about it.

00:34:48.240 I mean, in terms of the Ukraine and Syria, but Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Iran,

00:34:56.060 there is a game that's being played by guys and women, you know, 1.00

00:35:00.200 and it's equally the same. I saw it in the United States when I'm over there.

00:35:03.480 People call them the neocons. Some will call them World Economic Forum.

00:35:07.260 Others will call them the military-industrial complex.

00:35:09.660 Yeah, I'm sure they're all connected in some ways.

00:35:11.300 They all go to the same parties. They, like, go skiing in the same parts of Aspen.

00:35:14.520 You know, they send their kids to the same universities and schools.

00:35:17.860 They know where they are. They date each other. That's what they do.

00:35:21.520 But as they, at the end of the day, have pressed the button to murder someone in the country

00:35:26.160 thousands of miles away that they won't see, and they get into their big car,

00:35:30.760 and they go to their house party in the Hamptons at the end of the day,

00:35:34.220 they're responsible for the transformations.

00:35:37.360 And they may sit there thinking with their glass of, you know, big cup of JD

00:35:41.500 and think it's wonderful. What a great day I've had.

00:35:44.240 I'm protecting our environment. You're not.

00:35:46.960 What you're doing is protecting your environment, your personal space,

00:35:50.820 your personal bank account, this big frame of a house that you're living in.

00:35:55.380 You really don't give a doubt about the people that have died in those countries,

00:35:59.320 those who are having to move across and pay gangsters,

00:36:02.000 to be able to get them out of those, all the people living in estates that I grew up in

00:36:06.860 who have to suffer the consequences.

00:36:10.280 That's the big issues that we have.

00:36:12.160 That's why I got involved in politics. That's why I'm still knocking around.

00:36:16.460 But that subject is a very taboo one.

00:36:20.040 The fact that we're having this conversation,

00:36:22.260 you wouldn't see it being had in a lot of other places with this frankness.

00:36:26.460 Why is that?

00:36:27.880 Because they have, they, someone's just opened my eyes to something called the Overton window.

00:36:33.200 I mean, I've got to study it a little bit more to try and get a full grip about it,

00:36:36.840 because I don't like to just take a theory without trying to understand the full background about it.

00:36:42.140 But what to an extent that I get from that is that it's OK for us to have a little bit of discontent with the elites.

00:36:48.740 It allows a little bit of freedom and movement to do so.

00:36:51.540 And if you move up the ladder too much, then they'll cut you off at the knees.

00:36:56.060 You know, one can argue that you saw that with the rapprochement between Martin Luther King and Malcolm X during the 60s,

00:37:06.180 representing two wings of the black freedom movement, one which was the middle class,

00:37:12.120 and one was very much a working class environment.

00:37:14.160 And when both of them started to come together, it is argued that they moved on from saying it's just white versus black,

00:37:22.100 which fitted into a really nice scenario for the FBI and the elites to dissect them and diversify them.

00:37:29.360 But when they started talking about the economics of what the people lived in,

00:37:32.960 and how we should be changing the economics of the United States soon after they were killed.

00:37:37.100 Now, one could argue that was coincidence.

00:37:40.660 One could argue that was planned.

00:37:43.260 But what we get with scenario in our country is that whether you've got those threats at the top,

00:37:48.880 when people start talking about the economics and combining all this together,

00:37:52.900 the window of opportunity to express it in our modern window,

00:37:56.820 whether this is the Overton window or not, is reduced.

00:37:59.740 So when I would go on to TV on the BBC, it'd often be like three people pro-mass migration 0.59

00:38:07.060 and calling me a racist, xenophobe and not caring against myself.

00:38:11.840 No, I could handle it.

00:38:12.920 I mean, I don't mind.

00:38:13.820 I've got, you know, kind of broad shoulders.

00:38:15.640 I mean, when you come off the estate, you know, you've had a lot worse coming at you

00:38:19.240 than someone who's been educated at, you know, Oxbridge and shouting a few nasty words.

00:38:24.700 Sticks and stones can break my bones.

00:38:26.400 Not a word that comes from someone from St. Hilbert's, you know.

00:38:29.220 And so that is why they don't like the frankness.

00:38:35.020 They don't like the frankness because it challenges them

00:38:37.460 to try and move out of their comfortable environments.

00:38:41.260 The task for most of us, whether it's in politics we talk about this,

00:38:45.500 is to try and bring out the reality of the overall impacts

00:38:49.820 to the communities in their home state

00:38:51.680 and then separate it from those who are benefiting from this.

00:38:56.860 And I'm now starting to get a bit of funding from people to start to do the research

00:39:02.940 on what I call the immigration industry.

00:39:05.860 There's a huge number of people benefit from this.

00:39:07.960 So far, I can see just on easy money, very easily identifiable money,

00:39:14.420 that we've got £250 million to £500 million a year being handed out

00:39:19.760 to organisations that help asylum applicants and immigrants in this country.

00:39:24.740 So those are just the NGOs, these charities, as they call themselves, that come out.

00:39:31.980 So that's a lot of people getting a lot of money from that.

00:39:35.580 Then there are universities that get funding for research projects.

00:39:41.460 And those research projects often come out and say,

00:39:43.780 look, mass migration creates huge amounts of GDP for us.

00:39:48.000 There's no GMP difficulties.

00:39:49.560 But they're the ones getting the funding.

00:39:50.560 Organisations like myself, which I would need two or three people

00:39:54.320 to be able to help research at the same level the universities have,

00:39:57.480 don't get anything near that.

00:39:59.800 So then they've got the material that they can serve for the research

00:40:03.420 that they can use through the polls that they do.

00:40:08.040 And then that gets into the press with their friendly journalists,

00:40:12.280 who many of them might have gone to university with,

00:40:14.220 who then print what they've got.

00:40:15.840 So they perpetuate that industry.

00:40:17.720 Of course, you've got the lawyers that are making money out of it through legal aid.

00:40:22.100 Get a divorce, try and get your child back from your wife 1.00

00:40:24.880 or your child back from your husband.

00:40:26.680 No legal aid there for you.

00:40:28.360 But you do get it if you're an asylum applicant.

00:40:31.780 So there are some genuine costs going out to people

00:40:34.560 who are making a lot of money out of this.

00:40:37.260 And if you look at corporates,

00:40:38.400 I mean, it's Mare, Serco and Clearspring Houses Limited

00:40:44.240 signed a contract for £10 billion with the government

00:40:48.060 to house those in initial accommodation

00:40:51.380 and then long-term accommodation.

00:40:53.360 £10 billion.

00:40:54.700 But that was before we've had the latest mass influx.

00:40:57.780 And now we're spending £4.7 million a day

00:41:01.240 housing in hotels and bedsits.

00:41:03.400 And I'll give you an example of someone who pointed out to me,

00:41:06.240 said, look, I'm in a poor area of the north.

00:41:09.540 A guy came up and bought three houses,

00:41:11.560 which might only be like two or three bedroom houses,

00:41:13.740 and they've just housed them

00:41:15.420 with those people coming from asylum applicants.

00:41:19.500 And they're getting double or triple for that house

00:41:22.340 than they would do for someone paying on the local estate.

00:41:24.700 Hey, Constantine, do you love Trigonometry?

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00:42:27.160 Stephen, the running theme through what you're talking about

00:42:30.400 is an elite that is uninterested

00:42:33.820 or perhaps even actively disinterested

00:42:36.420 in the needs and views of the rest of society.

00:42:39.820 And I suppose I would argue

00:42:43.780 that a certain stratification of society

00:42:46.560 is always going to be the case,

00:42:47.740 and it's inevitable.

00:42:48.380 It's human nature, hierarchy, et cetera.

00:42:50.920 But it seems to me that we have come to a point

00:42:53.620 where even a colossal shock like Brexit,

00:42:56.660 Francis and I both voted Remain in that referendum.

00:42:59.000 We weren't politically particularly switched on

00:43:00.940 at that point, I would say.

00:43:03.200 But that could have been a wake-up call

00:43:05.540 to the elites on this issue.

00:43:08.320 I'm not sure how much...

00:43:09.580 I mean, it might have been a wake-up call,

00:43:10.980 but we've very quickly moved on to other things,

00:43:12.860 and we've just channeled those same bitterness

00:43:14.920 and division and everything into COVID

00:43:16.860 and now Ukraine,

00:43:17.940 and there'll be next things to come.

00:43:20.260 But fundamentally, I see it all the time.

00:43:23.260 I remember talking to a friend of mine

00:43:25.620 who I knew through my previous work.

00:43:27.600 I think she was French,

00:43:29.100 and we were talking about Brexit.

00:43:30.180 And she was saying,

00:43:31.160 well, I don't know why...

00:43:32.560 Why can't...

00:43:33.280 Like in France, we just...

00:43:34.540 You know, the people voted,

00:43:35.720 and we went, no, we don't want this,

00:43:37.040 so we just cancelled it.

00:43:38.360 And why can't they do that here?

00:43:41.780 And, you know...

00:43:43.880 And she's not a bad person.

00:43:45.980 She's a good girl.

00:43:47.440 You know, there's nothing wrong with her. 1.00

00:43:48.580 But I just...

00:43:51.500 It makes...

00:43:52.160 I find it difficult to understand

00:43:54.200 how people can be so self-obsessed 0.94

00:43:57.120 and so ignorant to the...

00:43:58.520 Because you can be self-obsessed in the short term, 0.99

00:44:00.680 but in the long term,

00:44:01.440 if you keep alienating your own voters

00:44:04.620 and the people who actually run the country

00:44:07.040 by working and, you know, doing everything,

00:44:10.200 that's not a recipe for a good society down the line.

00:44:12.500 And that's why you have to have gated communities,

00:44:14.240 because you're terrified of the poor people

00:44:16.140 that live around you.

00:44:17.180 Yes, and of course, what happens now,

00:44:18.940 and you'll see that whether it's gated communities,

00:44:20.880 whether it's the fact that on the streets of...

00:44:23.480 Almost everywhere in the UK now,

00:44:25.000 you're seeing video cameras

00:44:26.320 and technology being used to identify who we are.

00:44:29.980 You know, you're following us on our phones.

00:44:31.600 We're using big high-tech companies

00:44:33.060 to put it into our phones and our laptops.

00:44:34.840 We're seeing social media

00:44:35.960 as a way of actually knowing what we do

00:44:38.260 and what we say.

00:44:39.600 Monitoring is a really important part

00:44:41.320 of keeping control

00:44:42.520 when you've got bigger, bigger populations.

00:44:45.460 It's not that we haven't had this similar...

00:44:49.120 Sorry, the kind of differences

00:44:51.060 between the poor and the rich

00:44:53.340 create huge issues in this country

00:44:56.360 or any other country in the past.

00:44:58.900 One could argue,

00:44:59.980 when you look at the French Revolution,

00:45:01.400 that was a classic example

00:45:02.600 of where the elites had just really gone too far.

00:45:05.840 One could even step back

00:45:07.280 into the ways of the end of the Roman era,

00:45:09.680 where you look at Inera and others

00:45:11.280 were just expanded their empire too much,

00:45:14.040 but just were enjoying the spoils

00:45:15.660 of their empires in Rome

00:45:18.020 by having a ball all the time.

00:45:19.480 You know, we know what was going on

00:45:21.060 in their kind of hedonistic end days.

00:45:24.160 Great parties, mate.

00:45:26.760 I'm not sure I'd want to get involved

00:45:28.240 in some of them

00:45:29.020 when the animals were involved.

00:45:31.060 You know, that'd keep me...

00:45:32.080 I might be a wolf,

00:45:32.800 but keep me well out of that,

00:45:34.220 to be honest.

00:45:35.320 But even here in Britain as a whole,

00:45:39.480 we've gone through our riots.

00:45:41.220 Whether it's the simple thing

00:45:42.120 as saying the gin riots,

00:45:44.380 because we've now decided

00:45:45.800 that we don't want everyone

00:45:47.040 getting drunk on homemade gin

00:45:48.600 and we're losing revenue,

00:45:50.100 so we created pub laws

00:45:51.660 and licensing laws

00:45:52.700 to bring it back into pubs.

00:45:54.660 You know, that was a small element.

00:45:56.300 But we've had challenges

00:45:57.660 in this country.

00:45:58.680 The corn laws created riots.

00:46:01.140 We've had, you know,

00:46:02.420 from the levellers and the diggers, 0.99

00:46:04.540 the Pentridge martyrs,

00:46:06.040 to when we go down

00:46:07.760 to Merthyr Tidville,

00:46:08.820 we had people killed

00:46:09.880 in Merthyr Tidville

00:46:10.800 simply for fighting

00:46:11.760 for the right to vote.

00:46:13.100 You know, we've had people

00:46:15.440 challenging up in Peterloo,

00:46:17.360 my home time,

00:46:18.680 simply for asking for the vote.

00:46:21.640 We lost the lives of women, 1.00

00:46:23.820 you know, in times of the,

00:46:26.020 you know, putting themselves

00:46:27.220 under the horse.

00:46:28.160 One of them put through themselves

00:46:29.500 in front of a horse

00:46:30.200 simply for the right to vote for women. 0.99

00:46:32.200 So we've had riots in this country.

00:46:34.840 And even if you look at

00:46:36.420 when in the 1980s,

00:46:38.220 when we had the Moss Tide riots,

00:46:39.540 the St. Paul's riots,

00:46:41.340 the riots coming down in Brixton,

00:46:42.740 all going up at the same time

00:46:44.380 with Heseltine coming up

00:46:45.660 into Liverpool.

00:46:46.880 I understand the people,

00:46:48.860 I really do.

00:46:49.760 Yeah, you certainly do

00:46:51.360 when you put your contracts

00:46:52.260 into arms companies

00:46:53.340 and helicopter companies,

00:46:54.560 didn't you?

00:46:55.000 That meant often killed

00:46:55.840 and burned people 0.96

00:46:56.980 in the same time.

00:46:58.660 They are, we had riots

00:47:00.100 between those who said

00:47:01.880 we've had enough.

00:47:03.480 Now, I don't think

00:47:05.040 we're going to get

00:47:05.500 that many riots anymore.

00:47:07.100 Because if you've seen

00:47:07.740 the way that our police

00:47:08.600 are now virtually paramilitary

00:47:09.920 dressed as though

00:47:11.240 they're out of some

00:47:11.800 Stormtrooper movie

00:47:12.700 with an Arnold Schwarzenegger,

00:47:14.340 you know, or Star Wars.

00:47:15.420 And you can see the way

00:47:16.340 that the army in France

00:47:18.120 just recently

00:47:19.440 for COVID demonstrations

00:47:22.760 put 55 armed tanks.

00:47:26.020 And there were,

00:47:26.580 I mean, people were seeing that.

00:47:28.080 55 armed tanks

00:47:29.140 on the streets of Paris.

00:47:30.060 Not a city of love,

00:47:30.880 but a city of war.

00:47:32.440 We know what they've got behind us

00:47:34.160 and the training that they do

00:47:35.640 to be able to disarm us

00:47:37.480 when we've got,

00:47:38.160 this is, if we complain about it,

00:47:40.140 it's not going to be like

00:47:40.640 the poll tax riots

00:47:41.540 where a few horses

00:47:42.220 running over us.

00:47:43.300 This is literally

00:47:44.140 a militarized force now

00:47:45.480 that will be used

00:47:46.140 against the people.

00:47:47.300 And they've practiced about it.

00:47:48.840 They have training sessions

00:47:49.760 about it.

00:47:50.580 They're quite happy

00:47:51.260 to use guns

00:47:52.640 on us if they want to.

00:47:54.440 So I don't think

00:47:55.140 we're going to have riots.

00:47:57.320 And secondly,

00:47:58.220 there is still

00:47:58.800 a genuine belief in Britain

00:47:59.920 that we can transform

00:48:00.920 our nation

00:48:01.540 through the ballot box.

00:48:02.460 And Brexit was

00:48:03.740 that opportunity

00:48:04.700 for them to say,

00:48:06.040 OK, let's step back.

00:48:07.580 Let's go back

00:48:08.460 from what we saw

00:48:09.780 with politics of the past

00:48:11.660 where we realized

00:48:12.440 we've gone too far

00:48:13.080 and we can naturally

00:48:13.720 step out.

00:48:14.300 Because our country

00:48:15.080 has had

00:48:15.920 that time,

00:48:17.300 as I said,

00:48:18.420 you know,

00:48:18.820 from

00:48:19.200 the removal

00:48:22.260 of Charles I

00:48:23.480 and our own civil war.

00:48:25.640 We've had these points

00:48:26.800 upon our time

00:48:27.420 when we gradually

00:48:28.380 got little bits

00:48:29.400 of freedom.

00:48:30.880 It was only,

00:48:31.580 what,

00:48:32.720 1930s when we got

00:48:34.380 votes for the women

00:48:35.540 as an equal stage

00:48:37.380 at the age of 18

00:48:38.240 and then we handed it

00:48:38.980 over to the EU

00:48:39.760 to, in my argument,

00:48:41.160 to remove some

00:48:42.120 of those rights.

00:48:43.140 It took us hundreds

00:48:43.920 of years

00:48:44.400 to get universal

00:48:45.860 suffrage

00:48:46.320 at the age of 18.

00:48:48.200 So we have had

00:48:49.380 to fight

00:48:49.840 to get there.

00:48:52.260 Brexit gave us 0.97

00:48:53.080 an opportunity

00:48:53.660 for them to sit back

00:48:55.120 and say,

00:48:55.980 OK,

00:48:56.880 maybe we should

00:48:57.960 allow this to happen

00:48:59.040 and we move

00:49:00.200 on again

00:49:00.640 and we start

00:49:01.300 to transform.

00:49:02.260 But they haven't.

00:49:03.260 You could argue

00:49:03.780 that COVID's come in.

00:49:04.820 You could argue

00:49:05.400 that what's happening

00:49:06.460 in Ukraine

00:49:07.020 or you could argue

00:49:08.020 that all of these

00:49:08.800 are just great opportunities

00:49:09.800 for us to suppress that

00:49:10.980 and let's go back

00:49:11.580 to the plan

00:49:12.480 that we had.

00:49:13.460 And I think

00:49:13.800 that's what they're doing.

00:49:15.180 Do you think

00:49:15.820 Brexit,

00:49:17.300 I don't want to use

00:49:18.440 the word betrayed

00:49:19.140 because it's the wrong word,

00:49:20.200 but you get

00:49:21.040 where I'm going

00:49:21.880 with this.

00:49:22.900 With the initial promise,

00:49:24.780 what was promised

00:49:26.120 to people,

00:49:26.880 which was a control

00:49:27.940 of immigration.

00:49:29.040 I would say,

00:49:30.380 you know,

00:49:30.960 in America

00:49:31.440 they use the word

00:49:32.420 rhino

00:49:32.900 for a Republican

00:49:33.940 in name only.

00:49:34.860 We vote bino, 0.94

00:49:36.160 Brexit in name only.

00:49:37.380 Just because we left

00:49:38.120 the European Parliament

00:49:39.000 and there's no MEPs there.

00:49:40.680 How much real

00:49:41.420 transformational change

00:49:42.600 have we had?

00:49:43.840 Vast numbers

00:49:44.400 of our regulations

00:49:45.140 still aligned

00:49:45.920 with the EU.

00:49:47.320 Most of the trade agreements

00:49:48.420 we have are based

00:49:49.300 similarly along the lines

00:49:50.920 of the trade agreements

00:49:51.640 that we had

00:49:52.100 with the EU.

00:49:53.120 And on immigration

00:49:53.880 and some of the big issues,

00:49:55.360 certainly

00:49:55.880 no major transformation.

00:49:57.780 and where instead

00:49:59.340 of using it

00:50:00.280 as a real massive

00:50:01.620 energetic opportunity

00:50:03.600 to enthuse

00:50:05.320 the British population

00:50:06.300 and get ourselves

00:50:08.040 out there

00:50:08.560 to being a transformative

00:50:10.040 bright Britain,

00:50:11.980 I think we just

00:50:12.740 contracted on ourselves

00:50:13.980 and the bitterness

00:50:14.580 that came straight

00:50:15.480 after that.

00:50:16.700 The kind of

00:50:17.680 attack on those

00:50:19.780 who got Brexit

00:50:20.840 from those

00:50:21.400 who were just

00:50:21.920 a continuity remain,

00:50:23.520 some people call them.

00:50:24.420 And that's unfortunately

00:50:26.180 just fed into

00:50:26.920 where we are.

00:50:28.300 In immigration,

00:50:29.440 absolutely no movement

00:50:31.560 whatsoever.

00:50:33.260 Goodness no.

00:50:34.940 There's no control

00:50:35.900 of migration

00:50:36.380 on this border at all.

00:50:38.220 We've got more people

00:50:39.260 coming in

00:50:39.820 and all we did

00:50:41.220 was say

00:50:41.760 that European Union

00:50:43.060 citizens

00:50:43.620 have a slight restriction

00:50:45.320 in being able

00:50:46.200 to get here.

00:50:47.120 Those who were

00:50:47.800 already here,

00:50:48.760 we ended up finding out

00:50:49.700 that we had

00:50:50.140 more European Union

00:50:51.660 citizens

00:50:52.200 actually registered

00:50:53.560 in the UK

00:50:54.100 who've been given

00:50:54.760 permanent rights

00:50:55.380 to remain.

00:50:56.600 So it's not like

00:50:57.260 we've removed them

00:50:58.120 and tossed them

00:50:59.180 over the border

00:50:59.780 as was concerned about

00:51:01.600 and yes,

00:51:02.360 we're going to kick 0.98

00:51:02.800 them all out 0.98

00:51:03.460 if you remember

00:51:04.400 some of the arguments

00:51:05.180 through that.

00:51:05.780 We were never going

00:51:06.260 to do that.

00:51:07.520 And it wasn't sensible

00:51:08.480 to do that either.

00:51:10.020 That's not the sort

00:51:10.980 of nation that we are.

00:51:12.680 It's about moving together,

00:51:14.460 working together

00:51:15.200 and recognising

00:51:16.420 where we are

00:51:17.380 in the difficulties

00:51:18.200 that we had

00:51:18.900 and then saying,

00:51:19.480 okay, time to sit back.

00:51:21.320 Let's assess

00:51:21.920 where we are.

00:51:22.820 We've got a housing

00:51:23.460 needs.

00:51:23.820 We've got hospital

00:51:24.320 needs.

00:51:25.200 We've got transport

00:51:25.800 needs.

00:51:26.760 We've got to feed

00:51:27.180 the population.

00:51:28.400 Now we know

00:51:28.900 where we are.

00:51:29.380 Let's try and manage

00:51:30.080 the migration levels.

00:51:31.720 Let's work out

00:51:32.440 how we can create

00:51:33.720 an economy

00:51:34.680 that can be vibrant

00:51:36.000 enough.

00:51:36.620 Let's see

00:51:37.160 if we can utilise

00:51:38.300 those people

00:51:38.940 who are already here

00:51:39.820 who are first

00:51:41.580 and second

00:51:42.120 and third generation

00:51:43.000 Indians

00:51:43.380 to help us

00:51:44.060 with the trade deals

00:51:45.180 and trade with India.

00:51:46.320 Let's look at those

00:51:47.480 like yourself,

00:51:48.920 you know,

00:51:49.080 to be able to do

00:51:49.680 trade deals

00:51:50.280 with Russia

00:51:51.100 and open up

00:51:51.640 cross businesses.

00:51:52.260 Trust me,

00:51:52.720 I would not be

00:51:53.320 very good on that.

00:51:54.240 I'm not that popular

00:51:54.980 there,

00:51:55.200 but I see what you're saying.

00:51:56.040 The point is

00:51:57.000 we have an indigenous

00:51:57.900 community here

00:51:58.960 of people

00:51:59.500 that embedded in here

00:52:01.760 we should have been

00:52:02.480 giving them the tools

00:52:03.320 and the opportunities

00:52:04.120 through government

00:52:05.160 to go out

00:52:05.880 and do that.

00:52:06.400 Stephen,

00:52:07.180 how much of this

00:52:07.800 is about guilt?

00:52:09.920 Because there is

00:52:11.000 a narrative in Britain

00:52:12.020 that's,

00:52:13.040 I don't know

00:52:13.460 if it's always been

00:52:14.180 the case,

00:52:14.980 it wasn't,

00:52:15.920 it certainly wasn't

00:52:17.160 noticeable to me

00:52:17.980 when I first came here

00:52:18.920 as a kid,

00:52:20.100 which is that 0.96

00:52:21.560 Britain is bad. 0.98

00:52:23.480 It's a bad country. 1.00

00:52:24.820 It colonised,

00:52:26.140 it invaded,

00:52:27.040 it enslaved,

00:52:28.040 it profited from

00:52:29.080 the misery,

00:52:29.860 it went all around

00:52:31.160 the world

00:52:31.660 and oppressed people,

00:52:33.240 it brought them

00:52:34.060 over here

00:52:34.800 in terrible conditions

00:52:36.140 and they were treated

00:52:37.000 very badly

00:52:37.580 when people came,

00:52:38.640 you know,

00:52:38.940 no blacks, 0.98

00:52:39.620 no Irish, 0.99

00:52:40.120 no dogs,

00:52:40.600 whatever the slogans were,

00:52:41.980 all of that.

00:52:43.780 We are guilty,

00:52:45.500 we've done wrong

00:52:46.420 and now

00:52:47.120 the most important thing

00:52:48.880 is that we atone

00:52:49.640 for our sins

00:52:50.240 and frankly

00:52:50.920 if we can self-flagellate

00:52:52.200 and punish ourselves

00:52:53.120 even better,

00:52:54.620 even better.

00:52:56.280 Well yes,

00:52:56.820 absolutely

00:52:57.180 and I think

00:52:57.980 there is

00:52:58.960 guilt

00:53:00.180 in terms of

00:53:01.020 our historical context

00:53:02.140 of Britain

00:53:02.600 in terms of

00:53:03.340 the way

00:53:03.800 that we went out

00:53:04.620 and struck an empire

00:53:05.460 but name me

00:53:06.840 many western countries

00:53:08.100 that didn't do the same.

00:53:09.220 Look at Belgium, 0.99

00:53:09.840 the way that they

00:53:10.400 absolutely massacred people

00:53:12.220 in the Congo.

00:53:13.800 You know,

00:53:14.000 you have Italy

00:53:14.880 who's done the same,

00:53:16.040 Portugal and Spain

00:53:17.060 in South America.

00:53:18.800 It's not just western countries

00:53:19.780 by the way.

00:53:20.160 It's not just western countries.

00:53:20.740 The Muslim world

00:53:21.400 was a colonising world,

00:53:22.420 the Russian empire

00:53:23.140 was a colonising world.

00:53:23.820 The Muslim world

00:53:24.520 had the control

00:53:26.400 of the slave trade

00:53:27.380 and you also look

00:53:28.720 at parts of Africa.

00:53:30.500 I think,

00:53:31.000 I might be wrong here

00:53:31.860 and I'll get wrong

00:53:32.380 but someone said

00:53:33.060 that the Ashantis

00:53:33.760 grew wealthy

00:53:34.900 on the trade

00:53:36.080 of slaves

00:53:36.720 being able

00:53:37.460 to enable them

00:53:38.320 to be able

00:53:38.880 to be transported out.

00:53:40.220 So,

00:53:40.640 I think,

00:53:41.520 you know,

00:53:41.740 when you're looking

00:53:42.360 at the slave community

00:53:44.160 as being

00:53:44.780 a commodity

00:53:46.060 just like coffee

00:53:47.820 or tea

00:53:48.500 and people

00:53:49.480 were making money

00:53:50.180 out of it,

00:53:50.700 it goes back

00:53:51.400 to the commercialisation

00:53:52.500 of them.

00:53:53.560 But should I

00:53:54.240 then go to my house

00:53:55.660 and then get a whip 0.99

00:53:56.400 and whip myself 0.69

00:53:57.460 at the back

00:53:58.300 for something

00:53:58.780 that someone

00:53:59.380 did hundreds

00:54:00.520 of years ago?

00:54:01.520 Depends if you're

00:54:02.120 Catholic or not.

00:54:05.200 Let's not go down

00:54:06.160 there.

00:54:06.800 Or if you just

00:54:07.680 enjoy that kind

00:54:08.500 of thing.

00:54:08.980 That's the other option.

00:54:09.740 Yeah,

00:54:10.220 I heard there's

00:54:11.140 certain parties

00:54:11.640 in London

00:54:11.960 that get on

00:54:12.360 with that.

00:54:13.060 But at the end

00:54:13.960 of the day,

00:54:15.000 the communities

00:54:15.520 today shouldn't

00:54:16.540 be responsible

00:54:17.260 and feel

00:54:19.160 that kind of guilt

00:54:20.500 for what happened

00:54:21.440 a hundred years ago.

00:54:22.180 Otherwise,

00:54:23.400 I,

00:54:24.160 as a Northerner,

00:54:25.460 want to go

00:54:25.980 and find the Normans

00:54:26.760 for harrying the North

00:54:27.780 and creating

00:54:28.440 the first genocide

00:54:29.240 in this country

00:54:30.060 because that's

00:54:31.380 what those,

00:54:32.100 which is modern

00:54:32.720 day France,

00:54:33.540 did.

00:54:34.140 They wanted

00:54:34.740 to wipe out

00:54:35.740 those who were

00:54:36.480 opposing them.

00:54:37.660 Do we go to

00:54:38.660 Bath

00:54:39.460 and level Bath 0.99

00:54:40.720 now

00:54:41.040 for all the sins

00:54:42.660 of slavery

00:54:43.500 and rape 0.99

00:54:44.200 and pillaging 1.00

00:54:44.820 that the Italian

00:54:46.280 Romans did 0.99

00:54:47.080 in our country?

00:54:47.980 Do we dig up

00:54:48.520 all our roads

00:54:49.220 and say,

00:54:49.860 we don't want

00:54:50.340 those roads

00:54:50.900 because that's

00:54:51.780 what guilt is.

00:54:54.020 And those who

00:54:54.500 start pulling down

00:54:55.520 the statutes

00:54:56.520 are only referencing

00:54:57.380 to one country

00:54:58.260 because it's

00:54:59.500 about hatred

00:55:00.340 of this country.

00:55:02.300 It's not about

00:55:03.180 hatred of the other

00:55:04.040 countries for doing it.

00:55:06.240 And so I think

00:55:07.300 guilt is very,

00:55:08.400 very bad.

00:55:09.340 But guilt is something

00:55:10.360 that is really

00:55:11.520 part and parcel

00:55:12.280 of our education

00:55:13.040 system at the moment.

00:55:14.940 I think,

00:55:15.940 clearly,

00:55:16.940 there are those

00:55:17.660 who feel guilty

00:55:18.520 in the academic circles

00:55:20.500 and they're educated

00:55:21.340 to do that

00:55:21.960 and when they come out

00:55:22.720 it's all now

00:55:23.280 filtering through.

00:55:24.440 I mean,

00:55:24.900 I certainly had

00:55:25.500 my own daughter

00:55:26.920 talking about

00:55:27.800 the Vikings

00:55:28.580 and the Normans

00:55:29.860 and she's starting

00:55:30.740 to talk about that

00:55:31.540 now at the age

00:55:32.080 of eight and nine

00:55:32.580 and I can see

00:55:33.160 through it.

00:55:34.400 So what I do

00:55:35.140 is I have other books

00:55:37.180 that I start reading

00:55:38.700 to her about

00:55:39.220 the history of England

00:55:40.320 that I've collected

00:55:41.480 and she sees

00:55:43.120 a different angle,

00:55:44.020 not from those

00:55:44.600 that are in the

00:55:45.080 academic tombs

00:55:45.960 that are being

00:55:47.340 pushed upon

00:55:48.160 our people of today.

00:55:49.340 we should not forget

00:55:52.640 and that's,

00:55:54.400 we shouldn't forget

00:55:55.000 what happened

00:55:55.600 because we forget

00:55:56.820 what's happened,

00:55:57.520 we can't use it today

00:55:58.680 to look forward

00:56:00.200 about how we

00:56:00.720 improve our world.

00:56:03.040 I'm trying to think

00:56:04.040 of the Labour leader

00:56:06.060 in the 80s

00:56:07.860 who was pilloried

00:56:08.640 for his bad dress

00:56:10.020 and style.

00:56:11.260 Kinnock?

00:56:11.860 No,

00:56:12.360 before Kinnock

00:56:14.360 and he used to say

00:56:15.720 if you don't know

00:56:16.120 about history

00:56:16.700 you don't know

00:56:17.740 about our future

00:56:18.380 and I think

00:56:19.520 we have to look

00:56:20.160 at that

00:56:20.440 and analyse it

00:56:21.360 and say yes

00:56:22.240 what we did

00:56:22.940 was bad

00:56:23.520 but it doesn't mean

00:56:24.760 we start dipping

00:56:25.420 our hands

00:56:25.900 into our pockets

00:56:26.580 now and taking

00:56:27.300 out the billions

00:56:27.900 that should be

00:56:28.340 helping our own

00:56:28.920 country

00:56:29.280 in compensation

00:56:30.680 to those other

00:56:31.860 countries

00:56:32.240 because it won't

00:56:33.380 benefit them.

00:56:34.740 We know that

00:56:35.240 every amount of money

00:56:35.980 that we're handing

00:56:36.540 over to those

00:56:37.160 countries is being

00:56:37.820 used badly anyway.

00:56:39.680 Isn't it better

00:56:40.440 to try and do

00:56:41.460 what I said

00:56:41.820 at the beginning

00:56:42.320 which is try and

00:56:43.580 find mechanisms

00:56:44.320 globally

00:56:44.840 in which we can

00:56:45.880 try and improve

00:56:46.760 the profitability

00:56:47.720 of those countries

00:56:48.840 not just by dumping

00:56:50.560 cash into them

00:56:51.320 but working for them

00:56:52.220 to build their

00:56:53.280 environments

00:56:53.780 build their economies.

00:56:56.180 Dumping cash

00:56:56.680 in compensation

00:56:57.280 isn't going to help

00:56:58.440 because it'll just

00:56:59.320 help the elites

00:57:00.060 in smaller countries

00:57:01.040 there to pocket

00:57:02.100 it for themselves.

00:57:02.900 Stephen, I'm listening

00:57:05.020 to a lot of your

00:57:05.680 arguments and they

00:57:06.600 strike me as quite

00:57:07.840 classically old

00:57:09.220 school left wing

00:57:10.120 arguments

00:57:10.740 but a lot of them

00:57:12.700 I can imagine

00:57:13.760 Barbara Castle

00:57:15.920 Tony Benn

00:57:17.320 even dare I say

00:57:18.680 Jeremy Corbyn

00:57:20.040 apart from the

00:57:20.740 mass immigration

00:57:21.340 thing

00:57:21.620 talking about the

00:57:22.960 very same things

00:57:23.700 that you're talking

00:57:24.420 about and yet

00:57:25.680 you were this 0.70

00:57:26.640 evil man who 0.99

00:57:27.820 wanted to be 0.90

00:57:28.440 leader of UKIP

00:57:29.340 what's gone wrong

00:57:31.920 with the left

00:57:32.880 and politics

00:57:33.700 in general?

00:57:34.960 Well I think

00:57:35.240 in terms of the left

00:57:36.260 driven by this

00:57:37.860 desire under

00:57:39.040 Blair Mandelson

00:57:40.760 that they wanted

00:57:42.340 to, they recognised

00:57:43.680 that they were

00:57:44.780 beginning to lose

00:57:45.400 the vote of the

00:57:46.620 working class male

00:57:47.660 in particular

00:57:48.180 and the families

00:57:48.760 of the north

00:57:49.320 why?

00:57:50.060 Because there were

00:57:51.100 no longer any

00:57:51.680 culpits and we're

00:57:52.600 killing the steel

00:57:53.720 industry and the

00:57:54.500 fishing industry

00:57:55.100 was dying

00:57:55.680 so they had to

00:57:57.060 make a political

00:57:58.400 decision of where

00:57:59.360 they're going to

00:57:59.700 get the votes for

00:58:00.380 in the future

00:58:00.920 so the votes

00:58:02.140 they felt was

00:58:02.720 easy pickings

00:58:03.720 was by manipulating

00:58:05.540 university students

00:58:06.620 into voting for them

00:58:07.920 the young people

00:58:08.580 are always more

00:58:09.400 aggressively

00:58:10.460 pro-progressive

00:58:12.220 like the rest of us

00:58:13.040 they want to just

00:58:13.740 help the world

00:58:14.320 which we do

00:58:15.300 but they think

00:58:16.420 more with our heart

00:58:17.160 and they never

00:58:17.560 think with our heads

00:58:18.260 that was their

00:58:18.760 analogies

00:58:19.280 and then mass

00:58:20.580 migration

00:58:21.120 was another way

00:58:22.500 we're going to

00:58:22.860 rub the right's face

00:58:23.860 in this

00:58:24.680 was one of the

00:58:25.240 comments that's

00:58:25.680 often used

00:58:26.240 and we saw

00:58:26.820 mass migration

00:58:27.560 because statistically

00:58:28.880 here in the UK

00:58:29.660 and in the US

00:58:30.800 and in Canada

00:58:31.920 is that migrants 0.84

00:58:33.720 who come here

00:58:34.340 first tend to

00:58:35.200 vote Labour

00:58:35.580 or tend to vote

00:58:37.060 the left organisation

00:58:38.220 so for them

00:58:39.100 that was a

00:58:40.560 political turning

00:58:41.560 point away from

00:58:42.700 those of my

00:58:44.540 estates

00:58:45.320 who would say

00:58:46.520 that some of the

00:58:47.060 issues that we've

00:58:47.700 talked about

00:58:48.200 the economic issues

00:58:49.180 that impact those

00:58:50.520 on the lowest incomes

00:58:51.440 and the middle

00:58:52.180 classes and the

00:58:52.900 ability to move

00:58:54.100 up the ladder

00:58:54.700 were no longer

00:58:55.980 as important

00:58:56.640 anymore

00:58:57.020 the way that

00:58:57.460 we'll salve that

00:58:58.340 is just give them

00:58:59.480 benefits

00:58:59.920 keep them away

00:59:01.460 push them away

00:59:02.300 with benefits

00:59:02.880 the lazy way

00:59:03.820 out of doing it

00:59:04.680 we won't deal

00:59:05.320 with the proper

00:59:05.940 issues

00:59:06.340 just throw them

00:59:07.400 cash

00:59:07.720 and then we

00:59:08.040 can look good

00:59:08.560 again

00:59:08.860 that was Labour

00:59:10.020 and that's

00:59:10.300 modern Labour

00:59:10.740 today

00:59:11.240 Tony Benn's

00:59:12.880 Arguments of

00:59:13.400 Socialism was

00:59:14.100 the first

00:59:14.460 political book

00:59:15.260 that I ever

00:59:16.440 had

00:59:16.780 and I still

00:59:17.900 have it

00:59:18.340 it's a bit

00:59:19.100 worn torn

00:59:19.720 and all the rest

00:59:20.340 of it

00:59:20.500 and if you

00:59:20.780 looked at that

00:59:21.420 the Labour

00:59:22.100 of then

00:59:22.600 were a Labour

00:59:24.260 of looking

00:59:25.220 after people

00:59:25.940 globally

00:59:27.060 and internationally

00:59:27.640 one could argue

00:59:28.320 that I don't

00:59:28.800 want wars 0.94

00:59:29.320 and I see

00:59:30.080 the global

00:59:30.640 elites

00:59:30.940 I might be

00:59:31.320 a John Pilger

00:59:32.400 type style

00:59:33.420 viewpoints

00:59:34.820 on some of

00:59:35.320 that

00:59:35.620 yes

00:59:36.300 where is

00:59:36.800 this weird

00:59:37.300 lefty

00:59:37.680 coming into

00:59:38.160 me

00:59:38.360 but on

00:59:39.160 some issues

00:59:39.600 social

00:59:40.180 contract

00:59:40.800 issues

00:59:41.260 the family

00:59:42.680 the faith

00:59:43.580 the flag

00:59:44.420 that I saw

00:59:44.960 from my

00:59:45.280 grandfather

00:59:45.760 my grandmother

00:59:46.460 coming

00:59:47.200 the integration

00:59:48.060 into our

00:59:48.520 country

00:59:48.840 those are

00:59:49.580 parts that

00:59:49.900 have been

00:59:50.120 pilloried

00:59:50.700 by the

00:59:51.040 left

00:59:51.340 they hate

00:59:52.340 us for

00:59:52.640 that

00:59:52.820 they genuinely

00:59:53.780 hate us

00:59:54.240 and despise

00:59:54.860 us

00:59:55.060 we talk

00:59:55.820 about

00:59:56.160 a Catholic

00:59:57.860 or a Christian 0.93

00:59:58.680 religion

00:59:59.220 in the UK

00:59:59.840 if they talk

01:00:01.380 about flag

01:00:01.980 waving

01:00:02.420 I mean

01:00:03.180 what's it

01:00:04.080 in the

01:00:04.340 Rochester

01:00:05.220 by-election

01:00:06.040 there's an

01:00:06.920 England flag

01:00:07.740 look at that 0.74

01:00:08.340 how disgusting

01:00:09.080 is that

01:00:09.940 you know

01:00:10.900 they really

01:00:11.780 don't like

01:00:12.280 it

01:00:12.480 because for

01:00:13.960 them

01:00:14.180 the socialist

01:00:15.540 internationalism

01:00:16.500 is not about

01:00:17.320 anything that

01:00:17.920 could be

01:00:18.200 positive

01:00:18.560 patriotism

01:00:19.300 at all

01:00:20.660 and positive

01:00:21.260 patriotism

01:00:22.040 can be a

01:00:22.760 really beneficial

01:00:23.480 thing

01:00:23.960 if you're

01:00:24.640 looking at

01:00:25.000 how to

01:00:25.280 improve

01:00:25.600 our nation

01:00:26.040 the way

01:00:27.360 that we

01:00:27.600 put our

01:00:27.940 hands in

01:00:28.340 our pockets

01:00:28.780 for charities

01:00:29.380 the way

01:00:29.740 that Red 0.65

01:00:30.360 Nose Day

01:00:30.820 we've come

01:00:31.300 together

01:00:31.740 all of those

01:00:32.820 are part of

01:00:33.220 the historical

01:00:33.700 aspects of

01:00:34.320 who we are

01:00:34.720 as Brits

01:00:35.100 but for the

01:00:35.820 Labour Party

01:00:36.320 and the left

01:00:36.760 yes I have

01:00:38.400 that social

01:00:39.020 contract

01:00:39.480 maybe that's

01:00:40.300 what was

01:00:40.580 slightly dangerous

01:00:41.220 to some of

01:00:41.680 those people

01:00:42.080 who didn't

01:00:42.480 want me

01:00:42.940 in charge

01:00:43.960 of the

01:00:44.220 political

01:00:44.520 party

01:00:44.980 at the

01:00:45.240 time

01:00:45.500 but there

01:00:46.360 was also

01:00:46.820 an element

01:00:47.240 that has

01:00:47.580 been captured

01:00:48.060 by the

01:00:48.320 right

01:00:48.440 and I

01:00:48.640 think

01:00:48.760 that's

01:00:48.940 the

01:00:49.080 zeitgeist

01:00:49.660 that was

01:00:50.660 there in

01:00:50.980 the middle

01:00:51.220 and that's

01:00:52.120 what we've

01:00:52.520 seen

01:00:52.860 in the

01:00:53.880 kind of

01:00:54.260 separation

01:00:54.980 between

01:00:56.100 modern left

01:00:56.880 modern democracy

01:00:57.680 democratic

01:00:58.760 parties

01:00:59.400 sorry

01:00:59.700 and those

01:01:00.200 in Europe

01:01:00.680 where we

01:01:02.000 now

01:01:02.300 their main

01:01:03.840 supporters

01:01:04.920 immigrants

01:01:06.140 first generation

01:01:06.920 and second

01:01:07.340 generation

01:01:07.860 university

01:01:08.660 and the

01:01:09.320 intellectual

01:01:09.720 elite

01:01:10.080 what I call

01:01:10.840 Fabian

01:01:11.580 socialists

01:01:12.240 and the

01:01:13.960 traditional

01:01:14.460 trade union

01:01:15.100 socialists

01:01:15.820 are not

01:01:16.820 there

01:01:17.120 there are

01:01:18.020 still

01:01:18.200 some

01:01:18.700 who

01:01:19.060 might

01:01:19.220 believe

01:01:19.460 in it

01:01:19.720 but I

01:01:20.320 think

01:01:20.440 some

01:01:20.600 of the

01:01:20.780 traditional

01:01:21.140 trade unionists

01:01:22.140 have been

01:01:22.420 bought off

01:01:22.960 by the

01:01:23.280 way that

01:01:23.680 they can

01:01:24.060 get huge

01:01:25.000 amounts of

01:01:25.460 money

01:01:25.680 and have a

01:01:26.260 reasonable

01:01:26.500 lifestyle

01:01:26.960 as well

01:01:27.500 or just

01:01:28.440 forced out

01:01:29.020 like Paul

01:01:29.580 Embry

01:01:29.880 where we've

01:01:30.240 had on the

01:01:30.680 show

01:01:30.820 many times

01:01:31.420 you know

01:01:31.760 absolutely

01:01:32.280 Stephen it's

01:01:33.040 been a great

01:01:33.480 conversation

01:01:34.100 before we

01:01:35.000 ask you

01:01:35.700 questions from

01:01:36.520 our supporters

01:01:37.180 first of all

01:01:38.580 tell everybody

01:01:39.120 where they can

01:01:39.620 follow your

01:01:40.160 latest work

01:01:40.960 yes

01:01:41.460 and we'll

01:01:43.020 ask you our

01:01:43.580 final question

01:01:44.120 as well

01:01:44.400 yes so

01:01:44.880 if you go

01:01:45.860 to the

01:01:46.800 Centre for

01:01:47.240 Migration and

01:01:47.800 Economics

01:01:48.180 Prosperity

01:01:48.760 website

01:01:49.120 which is

01:01:49.640 www.cmep.co.uk

01:01:53.940 that's where

01:01:54.720 most of the

01:01:55.140 work will start

01:01:55.720 to come

01:01:56.040 and from there

01:01:56.480 you'll feed

01:01:56.920 off

01:01:57.140 into the

01:01:58.260 other works

01:01:58.660 that I do

01:01:59.060 around that

01:01:59.620 as well

01:01:59.940 fantastic

01:02:00.560 so we've

01:02:01.020 got one

01:02:01.300 more question

01:02:01.700 for you

01:02:02.000 as always

01:02:02.360 which is

01:02:03.220 what's the

01:02:03.540 one thing

01:02:03.860 we're not

01:02:04.140 talking about

01:02:04.820 but we

01:02:05.280 really should

01:02:05.740 be

01:02:05.960 well I

01:02:08.560 think it's

01:02:09.340 the way

01:02:09.820 that we're

01:02:10.660 manipulating

01:02:11.460 our young

01:02:12.040 people out

01:02:13.200 of the

01:02:13.460 concept of

01:02:14.300 freedom

01:02:14.600 that we

01:02:15.880 are watching

01:02:16.520 our young

01:02:17.100 people becoming

01:02:17.820 more and more

01:02:18.520 intolerant

01:02:19.340 and accepting

01:02:20.720 of that

01:02:21.700 intolerance

01:02:22.420 way that they

01:02:23.780 can have

01:02:24.340 people at

01:02:24.960 universities

01:02:25.400 saying you

01:02:25.860 can't speak

01:02:26.820 on a platform

01:02:28.340 the way that

01:02:29.900 we attack

01:02:30.420 individuals

01:02:30.960 if we're

01:02:31.420 not in

01:02:34.380 agreement with

01:02:35.020 your view

01:02:35.560 I mean

01:02:35.900 you look at

01:02:36.580 those in

01:02:36.920 the LGBT

01:02:37.380 movement

01:02:38.020 who really

01:02:39.020 championed it

01:02:39.920 who are now

01:02:40.980 being banned

01:02:41.640 from actually

01:02:42.160 being

01:02:42.420 you know

01:02:43.340 standing up

01:02:44.020 and talking

01:02:44.420 about the

01:02:44.840 transgender issues

01:02:45.800 for example

01:02:46.360 so there's

01:02:47.800 something going

01:02:48.320 on there

01:02:48.860 where we're

01:02:49.800 feeling it's

01:02:50.500 quite easy

01:02:51.620 to manipulate

01:02:52.640 young people

01:02:53.360 into this

01:02:54.000 kind of

01:02:54.340 ideology

01:02:55.080 that they

01:02:55.720 all agree

01:02:57.040 with

01:02:57.240 the Greta

01:02:57.740 Thunberg

01:02:58.460 chanting

01:02:59.440 brigade

01:03:00.020 whether this

01:03:01.880 was started

01:03:02.460 by Tony

01:03:03.080 Blair

01:03:03.320 and that

01:03:04.160 kind of

01:03:04.500 movement

01:03:04.940 whether we

01:03:05.820 see that

01:03:06.280 kind of

01:03:06.600 progressive

01:03:06.940 elements

01:03:07.400 that was

01:03:07.760 there in

01:03:08.160 Trudeau's

01:03:08.620 way that

01:03:08.980 he wanted

01:03:09.260 to manage

01:03:09.860 the truckers

01:03:11.900 it's this

01:03:13.280 attempt to

01:03:14.160 dissolve

01:03:14.720 freedom

01:03:15.220 into us

01:03:16.500 and them

01:03:16.900 and you're

01:03:17.700 our pack

01:03:18.220 but it's

01:03:19.000 done now

01:03:19.460 at a younger

01:03:19.880 age

01:03:20.300 and what

01:03:21.760 we're seeing

01:03:22.280 is a way

01:03:22.740 that we

01:03:23.000 put masks

01:03:23.680 on children

01:03:24.320 weaponising

01:03:25.500 children

01:03:25.960 weaponising

01:03:26.940 our young

01:03:27.360 people over

01:03:27.860 the arguments

01:03:28.360 of transgenderism

01:03:29.180 why is it

01:03:30.540 that we feel

01:03:31.680 that you can

01:03:32.500 take the

01:03:32.920 Jesuit idea

01:03:33.660 of getting

01:03:34.060 when they're

01:03:34.460 young

01:03:34.740 now being

01:03:35.260 accepted

01:03:35.820 in politics

01:03:36.620 instead of

01:03:37.620 allowing them

01:03:38.280 to live

01:03:38.900 their lives

01:03:39.380 freely

01:03:39.700 without

01:03:39.960 politics

01:03:40.560 without

01:03:41.420 any of

01:03:42.080 our adult

01:03:43.360 views

01:03:43.960 as children

01:03:44.720 and then

01:03:46.280 at university

01:03:47.140 and school

01:03:47.620 being given

01:03:48.140 a wider

01:03:48.920 berth of

01:03:49.400 opportunities

01:03:49.960 that's

01:03:52.240 what's

01:03:52.460 a concerning

01:03:52.880 element

01:03:53.180 to me

01:03:53.480 because

01:03:53.720 once you're

01:03:54.240 changing

01:03:54.620 where we

01:03:54.980 are seeing

01:03:55.280 now

01:03:55.580 the generation 0.55

01:03:56.460 that we're

01:03:56.920 in

01:03:57.060 which was

01:03:57.560 enabled

01:03:58.040 to have

01:03:58.560 deeper

01:03:59.660 conversations

01:04:00.320 will become

01:04:01.260 narrower

01:04:01.680 and more

01:04:02.460 intolerant

01:04:03.260 Stephen Wolf

01:04:04.480 fantastic

01:04:04.980 we're going to

01:04:05.420 ask you a

01:04:05.940 couple of

01:04:06.280 questions

01:04:06.600 from our

01:04:07.040 local

01:04:07.360 supporters

01:04:07.960 but for now

01:04:08.700 thank you

01:04:09.160 very much

01:04:09.560 for coming

01:04:09.860 on the show

01:04:10.200 it's been

01:04:10.720 a pleasure

01:04:11.020 thank you

01:04:11.720 for having

01:04:12.020 me

01:04:12.140 I've really

01:04:12.420 enjoyed it

01:04:12.940 thank you

01:04:13.520 thank you

01:04:14.920 for watching

01:04:15.360 and listening

01:04:15.760 we'll see

01:04:16.180 you very

01:04:16.560 soon

01:04:16.840 with another

01:04:17.220 brilliant

01:04:17.600 episode

01:04:18.000 like this

01:04:18.420 one

01:04:18.600 or our

01:04:19.400 show

01:04:19.620 all of them

01:04:20.140 go out

01:04:20.400 7pm

01:04:20.800 UK time

01:04:21.360 and for

01:04:21.920 those of

01:04:22.280 you who

01:04:22.740 like your

01:04:23.020 trigonometry

01:04:23.520 on the go

01:04:24.100 it's also

01:04:24.920 available as a

01:04:25.660 podcast

01:04:26.160 take care

01:04:27.140 and see you

01:04:27.960 soon guys

01:04:28.620 in your opinion

01:04:31.780 do you

01:04:32.600 ultimately believe

01:04:33.900 that you

01:04:34.380 dodged a

01:04:34.820 bullet by

01:04:35.400 not becoming

01:04:35.900 leader of

01:04:36.360 UKIP

01:04:36.720 you

01:04:39.260 you

01:04:40.300 you

01:04:41.860 you

01:04:44.400 you

01:04:44.660 you

01:04:45.420 you

01:04:45.960 you

TRIGGERnometry - May 23, 2022

Steven Woolfe：＂Immigration is Out of Control

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

TRIGGERnometry - May 23, 2022

Steven Woolfe： ＂Immigration is Out of Control

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Steven Woolfe：＂Immigration is Out of Control