TRIGGERnometry - ＂Stop Medicalising Kids＂

00:00:00.000 You know how superheroes always show up right when you need them?

00:00:03.140 That's what the Connecticut Children's Doctors are like at the Cohen Pediatric Emergency Center at Norwalk Hospital.

00:00:08.540 They're from the only health system in the state that's 100% for kids.

00:00:12.780 The rooms here are bright, there's a giant turtle on the wall, and you might even see a child life specialist too.

00:00:18.580 They're the ones who help kids feel calm.

00:00:20.720 So yeah, let's hope you'll never have to visit, but if you do, they'll be ready.

00:00:25.720 Norwalk Hospital is joining Northwell for a new era in your care.

00:00:30.000 hello and welcome to trigonometry i'm francis foster i'm constantin kitchen and this is a

00:00:40.180 show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people we've got all kinds of

00:00:45.920 fascinating guests for you today he's an adult film producer performer and our first transsexual

00:00:52.200 man on the show buck angel welcome to trigonometry right on thank you for having me i'm the first

00:00:57.380 wow first transsexual man we've had lots of trans women on the show but not so much on the other

00:01:03.580 way and i think that would be one of the things that would be interesting to talk to you about

00:01:07.500 before we do though just tell everybody your story who are you how are you where you are

00:01:12.960 what is the journey that brings you here to be talking to us because your story is really really

00:01:16.680 interesting well thank you first off thanks really for uh having me on i appreciate giving

00:01:21.620 me the space so i'm a transsexual man which means i was uh born female so and transitioned to live

00:01:29.020 as a man uh 26 years ago so biologically i'm female i never felt that way whatever that means

00:01:35.660 it's a difficult space to kind of tell people because it's like i don't feel like a woman i

00:01:40.560 felt like a man so i had to change to fit my space and i walked the world as a man i got into

00:01:45.360 pornography I created the genre of trans male pornography 21 years ago from there my voice

00:01:51.620 just got into the universe and I became a public speaker and I travel the world now talking about

00:01:55.860 my transition 26 years ago which was a whole other level of transition than it is today and

00:02:02.240 I also identify as a transsexual man so hopefully we can have that discussion along the way well

00:02:07.280 let's let's talk about that first of all because I don't even know what what's the difference

00:02:11.980 between a trans person and a transsexual person sure so so what what for me this is how i actually

00:02:19.440 explain it now people are going to argue with it whatever but this is my identity and my story so

00:02:24.040 yeah it's the internet people are going to argue whatever you say they're going to tell me my story

00:02:28.180 is wrong that's the best part about it so so that being said for a transsexual person is a medical

00:02:34.360 ized space so it's so for example i'm going to use myself i never felt like a woman i always felt

00:02:39.540 like a dude. I wanted to transition to live in the space of binary male. So I wanted to go from

00:02:47.300 living as a woman to living as a man. I use medical intervention. I have my breasts removed.

00:02:51.840 I take testosterone for the rest of my life. And I masculinize myself. As you see, I look like a man

00:02:57.940 and people think I'm a man. So that's really where transsexual people live. We live in a space where

00:03:03.200 we want to go from one binary to the other. And we don't want people to know our background. We

00:03:07.120 just want to live as men and women. Transgender is now an umbrella term that encompasses every

00:03:13.200 variation of gender. So it can be somebody who's non-binary, even somebody like myself,

00:03:18.180 if they choose to be in the transgender space. So the difference for me is that transsexual is

00:03:23.640 more of a medicalized space where somebody wants to live in the binary and a transgender is an

00:03:28.400 identity space. So these people are choosing the identity of transgender. I'm not, I'm not,

00:03:33.180 mine is not an identity choice mine is a medical space if that makes sense so it's a really lovely

00:03:39.980 explanation buck thank you why do you think it is that it's more contentious it seems to me anyway

00:03:47.100 for male to female transition than for female to male yeah that's a great question and so again

00:03:53.480 you know not being a trans woman i don't have the same experiences then but as a trans man i'm

00:03:58.160 looking at the whole space. It's just much harder for men to transition to women. It could be a

00:04:05.600 physical thing, right? There's some things. For a person like myself who transitioned from a woman

00:04:10.400 to a man, it was just about taking testosterone, growing a beard, right? Going to the gym and

00:04:15.560 putting on muscles and wearing a sweatshirt. I look like a dude. I think on some level,

00:04:21.260 sometimes it's harder to transition from male to female physically, especially if you're doing it

00:04:26.680 later in life you have male characteristics that you have people in the world see visually right

00:04:32.220 so there's a visual space that we as trans people live in and that space can be difficult if you're

00:04:37.400 not pat what we use as the word passing and so i think the reason you see more uh male to females

00:04:44.460 voices out there is i think that they come from a socialized male space and men are different than

00:04:50.880 women when it comes to everything in the world so men are taught to be more boisterous men are

00:04:55.680 taught to put themselves in spaces where women are taught to be much more meek and taught so i

00:05:00.300 come from a socialized female space where we're not supposed to be putting our voice in there

00:05:04.980 we're not so i for me when i'm looking at everything and i see such a wider space of of

00:05:10.500 male to females in the voice space i think it's really socialization and they come from a space

00:05:16.660 where they have been taught to be boisterous if that makes sense is there not also another part

00:05:21.420 of this book, which is you are no danger to men in their experience, right? If I saw you in a

00:05:28.620 bathroom, I'd be like, well, it's another dude in the bathroom. We're both having a piss. Great.

00:05:33.680 Right. But for women, the experience of someone who's a lot bigger, a lot stronger and all of

00:05:39.280 that, they experience that as a threat. And, you know, we have a lot of female fans whose

00:05:44.000 major concern around all of this stuff is the safety of women, the safety of girls,

00:05:49.820 you know women's sports all of that sort of stuff that's a big part of it as well isn't it

00:05:54.940 oh sure it's a huge big part and no one wants to have the conversation on both sides right we have

00:06:00.380 to ease into this this isn't an easy space to go into now i'm not part of that conversation as a

00:06:05.500 trans person i'm part of that conversation as somebody who lived as a female for half of my

00:06:10.500 life i was in sports i was everything i was a very butch woman i lived as a butch woman and i lived

00:06:16.220 in that space of female. And it is a hundred percent true that women are still on the bottom

00:06:22.120 of the barrel. It's a real thing. And so that being said, I think that there's no discussion

00:06:27.960 between trans women and biological women, where how can we start to have the conversation where

00:06:33.340 we can move into spaces together? We need to hear both sides. You can't just hear trans people.

00:06:38.680 We have to hear women and biological women as well. We need to say, well, why are biological

00:06:43.160 women acting this way and saying they're so scared of trans women and where trans women saying well

00:06:48.480 that's transphobic and you're a turf if you do that no one's no one's coming to a space where

00:06:53.180 we're like listening to each other and listening to fears because everyone's fears are valid

00:06:57.940 everyone's but we need to understand why are they and why are why is this side having a fear and why

00:07:03.120 is this side having a fear because there's valid reasons why they are i hear your approach and it

00:07:08.740 sounds great. It does sound great. But I'll tell you what, the problem that I think we have here

00:07:15.400 is it's not just about people not willing to listen. It's also about the fact that particularly

00:07:21.940 when you talk about something like sport, but also, you know, female prisons, right? There are

00:07:27.380 some things that just irreconcilable differences where, you know, let's say safety has to take

00:07:34.020 priority over you know feelings of comfort and being accepted and whatever do you think

00:07:40.100 i mean there are some areas like that surely aren't there a hundred percent there is and

00:07:44.480 there's a hundred percent of people using trans as a way to get into another prison there is no

00:07:50.160 doubt about that i and anyone who denies that especially in the trans community is not helping

00:07:55.000 the trans community because there are people who are latching on that possibly are not trans who

00:08:00.160 possibly are using it to use the system. Now, I don't know. I can't tell you the percentage of

00:08:05.220 people that are doing that, but a hundred percent. And also, yeah, there are people that we just need

00:08:10.680 to have some kind of conversation about this because people are freaking out and people are

00:08:15.600 saying, wait a minute here. There are people who are not trans, but pretending to be trans or

00:08:19.660 saying, and here's the deal. If you can just self ID as a woman, that's like insane. So any of you

00:08:27.960 two guys sitting there could self-id as a woman right now say i'm a woman not make any attempt

00:08:33.880 to look like a woman i could be a butch woman though you're totally good

00:08:39.300 you open that door dude

00:08:44.120 to be honest with you buck that door has been open for him by thousands and thousands of youtube

00:08:51.640 comments over the years yeah i love it i take your point it's a good point anyone can just

00:08:56.580 if anyone can self-ID, that opens the door to some, a very small minority, but some people

00:09:02.280 who want to use it for sinister purposes, right? That's right. And I'm going to say it right here

00:09:06.500 and everyone can be mad at me, but that's like the real, here's, you know, I'm so frustrated,

00:09:10.920 you guys. I'm so frustrated because I have opinions or I want to talk about things and

00:09:16.420 they might not sound like so great or perfect or whatever people need me to say. I'm saying things

00:09:22.580 because i want to have conversation about it you guys are bringing it up with me because now we can

00:09:27.660 start to bridge a gap we need to bridge a gap there the gap of conversation it could conversation

00:09:33.660 hurts people's feelings and people don't want to have their feelings hurt anymore which is a very

00:09:37.600 weird place to be right i mean we need to we need to get down to understanding why people don't like

00:09:44.200 trans people why people are pushing back on us or why people think certain things about us and if

00:09:49.000 we have conversation and hopefully people will start to see there there is nuanced in this

00:09:53.620 conversation it's not being heard um buck aren't you ever surprised with just how toxic this debate

00:09:59.780 is i remember when i first got into the we first got into doing the show people said this is the

00:10:05.480 most toxic debate you can be involved in and i was shocked i'm shocked too and it's actually

00:10:10.940 depressing for me to be you know 26 years i transitioned 20 plus years i've been in really

00:10:16.660 advocating for trans stuff. You know, I put myself out there all over the world naked. I've been

00:10:21.900 everywhere and doing everything to sort of like just bridge this gap or at least just be accepted.

00:10:27.880 You know, I have been accepted in the world. People like me. There's, you know, even though

00:10:31.640 I did pornography or I do pornography, people still like me because I'm willing to have

00:10:36.240 conversation. And so I don't understand how we've gotten to this. And it's not just about trans

00:10:40.920 issues. You guys know that. I don't understand how we've come into this space where everyone's

00:10:45.140 triggered everyone's upset no one can have a conversation we're going to cancel you

00:10:49.040 where do we live and what world are we building we're building a very scary world

00:10:53.800 we are building a very very scary world does this politicization of the issue help trans people

00:11:01.580 no 100 i'm going to tell you no because now look where are we we're having me and you are having

00:11:07.500 these conversations when i can tell you two or three years ago i was having conversations with

00:11:12.320 guys like you about my work and porn about how you know great just different conference how cool

00:11:17.860 it was that i transitioned everyone would always be like that it's so cool how you transition

00:11:22.220 now it's like people are becoming anti-transitioning because they're seeing things in my community

00:11:27.500 that i don't even like there are things in the community i don't even like and i'm pushing back

00:11:32.460 on my community because i can't imagine what the rest of the world sees and if i'm pushing back on

00:11:37.460 my on parts of my community what the rest of the world sees might be insane and you say parts of

00:11:43.720 you're pushing back on things in your community that you don't like what are these things buck

00:11:47.940 well the most important thing for me are the kids and it is this makes me emotional i'll be honest

00:11:54.200 with you it does because i was one of those kids i was a trans kid right but we didn't call it that

00:12:00.780 back in the day but that being said i know where these kids are hurting i understand what's going

00:12:05.240 on. But the thing that I do not understand in my community is medicalizing children. I do not

00:12:11.160 believe in it. I do not think it is smart. I do not think it will alleviate until I see lots of

00:12:16.880 studies on that. Why are we messing with kids medically? You know, kids grow out of stuff.

00:12:22.000 I'm not saying they're all going to grow out of it. But I'm going to tell you, once you medicalize

00:12:25.520 a child, that child is medicalized for the rest of their life. And why would we do that just to

00:12:31.120 make them trans or to alleviate things we don't even know we have no research on how this is going

00:12:37.020 to help the future of children we do not and we're lying when we say we do because i look for it

00:12:42.660 nobody can give it to me it's not there we have we have research on on the blockers and how they

00:12:49.200 can be destructive on long term physically oh buck this is such an important issue that you

00:12:56.420 bring up and i'm glad you're the one that brought it up because you know my intuitive sense of

00:13:01.100 I was born in the Soviet Union and later lived in Russia and now living in the West, I have an

00:13:06.560 intuitive sense of just how decent and welcoming and open-minded people in the West are in general.

00:13:12.720 And I think that also will apply to the trans issue too. But when you start talking, we covered

00:13:19.600 a story on the show a few days ago about a two-year-old whose parents were on television

00:13:25.100 and they were being praised and celebrated

00:13:27.880 for encouraging and supporting their trans two-year-old.

00:13:32.500 Two-year-old didn't even have a concept of gender, right?

00:13:35.360 But when the general public in Britain here

00:13:39.020 and in America where you are see that,

00:13:41.200 I think that's what's pushing a lot of people

00:13:43.540 into the sort of like, there's something wrong here.

00:13:46.520 Whereas in the past, they would have just gone,

00:13:48.000 oh, Buck, you're transitioning.

00:13:49.200 Great, you know, you are an adult, you do you.

00:13:51.340 That's right.

00:13:52.160 That's right.

00:13:52.700 No, you hit it right on the head, my friend.

00:13:54.100 And that's why I talk about it. Look, I don't want any kid to suffer. And shame on anyone who

00:13:58.860 thinks that about me. That's not why I've done the work I've done or put myself out there in

00:14:02.980 the world naked. I did not do that. I've been beat up for 20 something years, my friends,

00:14:07.260 and I have grown a thick skin because of it. But that being said, because my ultimate goal was to

00:14:11.880 teach the world that it's not what you think it is. And the man walking down the street might not

00:14:16.560 be the man you think he is. And so what by opening myself up like that, I'm really doing a lot of

00:14:21.580 work to sort of expose us. Now I feel like we're going backwards. When you bring kids,

00:14:27.280 when you bring kids into an equation and medicalizing kids at such a fast rate with not

00:14:33.580 giving the rest of the world time to catch up, of course, everyone's going to say, wait a minute

00:14:37.960 here. And we should be. Kids are the future. And when you start to mess with kids, medically mess

00:14:44.940 with kids, how are those kids going to be as adults? Do we even know? Are they actually going

00:14:49.420 to be okay what what's this thing called detransitioners where are detransitioners coming

00:14:54.300 from do you know that i've never in the in the 26 years of my transition i never saw detransitioners

00:15:02.020 before all of a sudden in the last five even the last two years they're popping out like mad they

00:15:06.700 have organizations they have that says to me something's wrong with the system and what do

00:15:12.720 you think it is because we obviously in the uk you'll be i'm sure familiar with the case of kira

00:15:17.160 Bell. Of course, yes. We've had Marcus Evans from the Tavistock Clinic, which he was a bit of a

00:15:22.900 whistleblower there and his wife as well. And essentially what we're talking, what you're

00:15:27.660 hinting at, I think, is, am I correct to say that you think people have been encouraged to transition

00:15:33.480 who were maybe not supposed to? Of course, I'm saying that 100% because we're teaching. Look,

00:15:40.340 I'm not scared to say anything. I just want you guys to know. I am scared. That's why I want you

00:15:44.120 to say because you you should be you'll get nailed i get nailed too but what are they gonna do

00:15:51.080 i'm a trans i'm a transsexual person who's been in this community for 26 years you go ahead and

00:15:57.300 try to cancel me i'll get more pissed and i'll make sure that i'm on more fucking news stations

00:16:02.400 and more spaces like this and get my voice more powerful don't come after me people have a

00:16:07.380 conversation with me i do not play and i will not play when it comes to children i am disgusted that

00:16:13.120 our community is pushing this forward as if it's just something that we should all just lay down

00:16:17.620 and be I want to question it and if I want to question it you guys should question it and that

00:16:22.540 makes me say you care okay you care about my community I'm going to cry because again how are

00:16:28.200 we talking about children how are we even having this discussion and everyone's acting as a well

00:16:34.280 buck that's not that's not right these kids will kill themselves do you know that you're giving

00:16:39.000 them that language. When you give kids the language, I'm going to kill myself. What do they

00:16:43.200 do? Oh, I'm going to kill myself if I don't transition. They never had that language before.

00:16:48.540 When we start to put this stuff out there, it's taking away from the reality of what this did for

00:16:54.660 me, which is to save my life. And it's not a joke. And it's not something we should just be forcing

00:17:00.420 on everybody. We should find out what's going on with this person, figure out if they are trans,

00:17:05.780 that's great if they're not that's great too and then we can move forward but we're not doing that

00:17:09.740 i feel like we're just pushing and when children come into the equation i'm not shutting up i

00:17:14.220 refuse and i don't care because i see the future of those kids in a way that i want them to be like

00:17:19.500 me i don't want them to be screwed up kira bell got screwed up for a reason and because nobody's

00:17:26.040 having the conversation hey constantin how are you feeling good and your mental health i'm from

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00:19:03.420 And it's true, we're not having the conversation.

00:19:05.980 Do you think part of the problem as well, Buck, is that when people think of transition,

00:19:10.280 they tend to think, oh, it's a little click of the fingers.

00:19:12.620 That's right.

00:19:12.940 And then you've transitioned.

00:19:14.060 but what they don't realize is like you've been talking about you're going to take testosterone

00:19:18.740 for the rest of your life that's right i am medicalized for the rest of my i hate it you

00:19:24.140 guys you think i like being a trans dude i hate it but i fucking figured it out i figured it out

00:19:30.600 i walked the world i am a happy person don't get me wrong i'm so happy i have the most beautiful

00:19:35.260 amazing life i can't even imagine i'm still here but that being said why would i want somebody to

00:19:40.960 be like this when maybe they're not like this and maybe they can just find space that that they just

00:19:46.140 can figure it out and not have to be medicalized i mean to medicalize an eight-year-old a seven-year-old

00:19:53.320 we're starting at that age why why i don't understand to me that says wait a minute here

00:19:58.900 where that's an agenda because why wouldn't you want to just have a little mental health care for

00:20:03.820 a couple years you know i was socially transitioned if you know when you social transition it means

00:20:09.180 you dress differently. You get to dress like a boy. My parents dressed me like a boy. Let me

00:20:13.480 be a boy. I was socially transitioned. That was an amazing space for me to be in. And so, yeah,

00:20:19.600 I suffered during a second part of my life, but I did not suffer as a child because my parents

00:20:24.240 just let me be back. I'm totally all about social transitioning. Then what if the kid decides they're

00:20:29.940 not trans, right? Then it's just like, okay, we'll just change it back to a dress. We don't

00:20:34.680 have to fix like everything we just screwed up with medication. Well, that's an interesting part

00:20:40.340 of your story because we kind of got into the political side of this very quickly, but your

00:20:44.600 parent, and you would do because it's so politicized now, but actually, as you say,

00:20:49.800 there are more interesting conversations to be had, I think. And I think your case is particularly

00:20:53.500 interesting because for particularly, you know, you're in your fifties now, you grew up at a time

00:20:59.260 where acceptance of this type of thing was even less than it is now, but your parents were quite

00:21:04.520 supportive right you you were not growing up with sort of parents who were punishing you or being

00:21:10.420 and and still your life was quite hard and you had some family turmoil over it and alcohol and

00:21:16.280 other sort of problems right yep all of it i was a drug addict addiction all cutter i was a cutter

00:21:21.820 i was all of those things remember i grew up in the 60s and 70s that's a whole other i i even

00:21:28.440 transitioned in the time of no social media which i say thank god thank the universe for that

00:21:34.080 seriously because i think that's a lot of the problems that are happening in my community is

00:21:38.260 social media and this attachment that now they can connect with each other worldwide and start to

00:21:43.840 create some kind of rhetoric or some space where they're i think they're pulling people into this

00:21:48.860 idea that and the kids can't think straight because they're all being told how to think

00:21:53.660 and they're all and i was never told that i always got to find my own path on my own terms

00:21:58.800 it must be really difficult buck because we've spoken to douglas murray about this where you

00:22:06.220 know people becoming being gay is no longer a sexuality it's almost a political identity same

00:22:13.660 with trans that's right that must be very very difficult walking to room and everyone goes oh

00:22:18.060 they're trans i therefore know everything about the way they think that's right it's weird it's

00:22:22.900 weird that's what i told you why there's a difference between a transsexual person and a

00:22:27.160 transgender person transsexual people never wanted to be anything other than a man or woman you know

00:22:33.540 we just wanted to look this way go back into the world and we want to be a part of the world that's

00:22:39.020 what i keep telling i want to be a part of the world i want to hang out with you guys i want to

00:22:42.840 be i don't want to be this trans guy that i'm just part i want to be a man a part of the world

00:22:47.540 and that's where i actually built my space everyone looks at me as a man they don't now

00:22:52.100 this trans thing is so huge they're attaching that to me and it's like that was never my intention

00:22:57.540 was to be a trans man my intention was to be man so you see the political sizing of it it has made

00:23:02.860 it into a space that is now something different than where i come from it is now an identity

00:23:07.680 choice it's a whole other space and i don't i don't understand how we've been put into this

00:23:13.140 space now and now how big our voice is in the politics side it's i you know what that's not

00:23:19.000 what trans is about it's about finding your space and living life and and and moving forward because

00:23:24.920 that's what transition means it's from one to the other it's not you're not stuck in this space so

00:23:30.360 i you know it makes me sad that we're here because people never have acted this way towards us

00:23:36.040 that that's really interesting and uh and i by the way i i i accept your you you didn't say it

00:23:43.960 this way but it is a kind of criticism that's quite legitimate where we're having you on and

00:23:48.240 i introduce you as the first transsexual man we've had on the show where really you're a human being

00:23:53.740 that we could talk to other about other stuff that might be more interesting so i kind of accept your

00:23:59.060 criticism but at the same time we're sort of in this paradigm now where this does have to be

00:24:04.240 ventilated and people like you have to be heard to be speaking you by your experience so it's it's a

00:24:10.440 kind of it's a conundrum for all of us i think to work out no and i want you to know that that's why

00:24:15.220 I'm here. I'm here because of that. But before I used to go on shows because, you know, because I

00:24:20.580 was a transsexual man, but other, you know, other things and they're talking about my stuff and my,

00:24:25.400 but you understand what I'm saying now? It just becomes like, oh my God, it's like the number

00:24:29.680 one topic on every news day. I don't think it's doing us any good. I do not think it's doing us

00:24:35.680 any good. But let me ask you this because you've hinted at it already. I take it. You're not a fan

00:24:40.760 of the whole non-binary phenomenon well no i'm okay so yeah that's a great question because i

00:24:46.380 get nailed all the time in the community you're anti-non-binary you're here's what happened and

00:24:51.840 you know here's the other thing if you say something wrong 20 years ago they pull it out

00:24:56.120 they go digging through the internet and find something i said 20 i'm like i'm like that's 20

00:25:01.320 years ago find something relevant like maybe in the last year that i said that so so anyway that

00:25:07.460 being said yeah um uh what was i'm sorry what was i said about non-binary what's not binary

00:25:12.600 because that's like a huge thing i got so i am not anti-non-binary what i said was non-binary

00:25:19.060 people are not trans but that was before trans became an umbrella term now it's an umbrella term

00:25:26.220 so trans encompasses anything and anybody that has a variation of gender so non-binary to me is

00:25:31.960 an identity choice remember what i said earlier mine is not an identity choice my so for me

00:25:38.560 non-binary exists if that's what you want to be and you're in some kind of space you go right ahead

00:25:42.820 but for me it doesn't equate to where i'm at so i don't want to be put in the same space as

00:25:48.340 non-binary does that make sense i don't live under the same umbrella as non-binary that is not my

00:25:53.800 kind of trans that is that's different it's getting a little bit confusing here so let me

00:25:58.400 ask you this in a more simple way yeah how many genders are there great question dude

00:26:06.800 fuck if i know i don't have a clue and this day and age there's like five million as far as

00:26:13.660 but you know the reality of it's sex let's talk about biological sex i believe in biological sex

00:26:19.780 is the reason i'm transsexual i was born i was not assigned i was born a female 110 the doctor

00:26:27.700 saw it the doctor did it that you know so i was born a female and the other thing is i don't like

00:26:33.640 people putting words in my mouth for my story i was not assigned a female i was born a female

00:26:38.040 i wasn't comfortable with it and i transitioned to live male but i will always be a biological

00:26:43.060 female forever forever and ever and ever you cannot change biology that this is because i

00:26:48.580 look like a man does not make me biologically a man and why is it that that is such a contentious

00:26:56.020 thing to say you know like you've you've heard people getting in trouble people getting fired

00:27:01.020 from joe etc etc etc i see me laughing because i don't know it's funny this is such good comedy

00:27:09.300 stuff for you guys but you'll get nailed yeah yeah if i want to get shot yeah yeah and that

00:27:15.020 bums me out you know what i love comedy i make fun of clearly i'm like i'm like the man with

00:27:19.800 the vagina right i'm like it's funny it's hilarious like i love to laugh at myself i

00:27:24.820 love to laugh at my transition I know it's not funny funny but it's my transition and here's

00:27:29.920 the deal like if we don't make fun of ourselves on some level and we become so gross and it's just

00:27:34.700 so hard and no one no one can have conversation with us so it's just like I don't you know

00:27:40.260 taking ourselves too seriously on some level is not the way to live life you can't live life that

00:27:45.480 way but it seems that we are and that we do I guess one of the questions that I really wanted

00:27:52.000 to ask, Buck, is do you think now we've gone too far with this identity, this obsession with

00:27:58.880 identity? And if we have, what is a way to come back from it? Here's what I don't understand is

00:28:06.540 why are we having such this, you know, staunch idea of what gender is? And why are we having

00:28:15.060 this idea that biology doesn't exist? And why are we trying, we, not me, I'm not part of that,

00:28:20.480 but why is there a faction okay it's not all the trans i need also everybody out there to understand

00:28:24.880 this is not the whole trans community there are a lot of trans people who do not like what's going

00:28:29.080 on either so i need for you to know that there are a lot of people like me who are not happy

00:28:32.820 but that being said i feel as if they're trying to overrun like like the world and like telling

00:28:39.740 and redefining for the whole world what it means to be a man and a woman and i don't understand

00:28:45.460 why they would even that's so arrogant that is so arrogant and narcissistic i can't even believe

00:28:50.860 that you think you know better than what the rest of the rest of 99.9 of the world is binary and by

00:28:58.120 and believes in biology do you know the trans community is like 000.3 of the population or

00:29:04.680 something and here we are with such power to actually override other people forcing people

00:29:11.020 to use pronouns forcing people to say that you know if you don't do this you're transphobic how

00:29:16.620 how is i'm telling i'm actually asking this question out loud too because i don't understand

00:29:21.460 where the power is coming from and why we think that we are so much more superior than you

00:29:28.500 but this is an issue we've explored a lot on this show and you'll be as familiar with it as we are

00:29:35.260 but do you not think that a large part of this of the problems that you're talking about is simply

00:29:40.520 a product of the fact that we now live in a society where the more of a victim you are the

00:29:46.620 more power you have kind of and so and and the trans community is right at the top of that list

00:29:53.580 and therefore you've got power if you want you don't use it but if you wanted to you could be

00:30:00.660 like oh constantine said this thing in the course of our interview cancel him that's right and people

00:30:06.840 would do it they would in a heartbeat i mean people try to cancel me on a daily basis and

00:30:11.560 people get on board with it for a while and then they stop doing it it's just ridiculous but that

00:30:16.200 being said yeah you're right that's why any that's why these conversations are so difficult

00:30:21.000 that because nobody will talk about it i'm willing to talk about it because i don't think that

00:30:26.020 everything will get taken care of if we don't have the conversation i i like to say i like to build

00:30:31.200 bridges i like to be that guy between you and my and that community of that i don't even like to

00:30:35.860 call my community anymore because it's such a mess. And there's so many factions of it that I

00:30:40.080 don't agree with. And I don't want to be connected to that. I want to be connected to creating a

00:30:44.380 better world. That's the reason I'm here. I want to create a better world for all of us. Not

00:30:48.360 everyone's going to like trans people. That's just a reality. I've lived with it my whole life. I

00:30:52.880 lived with it as a gay woman. I've been beat up. Somehow now you can't be beat up or that's like,

00:30:58.180 you know what I mean? And by beat up, I mean, you can't have any opposing views. So this idea that

00:31:03.020 we're so sensitive around trans people is ridiculous and i don't understand honestly i

00:31:07.800 can't even answer any of your questions because i don't as a 58 year old trans guy i don't

00:31:12.640 understand it let me put the counter argument to you i mean you mentioned you know forcing people

00:31:17.000 to use pronouns yeah look you've chosen to to identify as a man right and when talking about

00:31:23.340 you i would say buck angel he right but some people might say well you forced me to do that

00:31:29.320 but if i said buck angel she that would be disrespectful and rude well yeah but here's

00:31:36.160 what's happened i'm mature and so what happens with maturity is you laugh it off and you're

00:31:41.200 like that dude is just doing that to be that way because look at me i mean it's clear that i'm a

00:31:46.280 man now but if you want to be a jerk you're gonna say she here's what that's what i know and i'm

00:31:50.760 trying to teach the kids that i'm trying to keep i don't care if you put she he there or whatever

00:31:55.720 you're putting there. People are going to see what they see. And sometimes people are going to

00:31:59.600 mess up your pronouns. People do still say she to me. They're like, you're a biological woman.

00:32:04.200 You're still a she. Whatever, dude. I don't care. I'm not living my life for you. We are teaching

00:32:10.020 bad behavior when we teach people to get so upset because somebody mispronowned you or whatever the

00:32:17.600 hell's going on. That's not the real world. Forever you will be misgendered. Forever. I get misgendered

00:32:23.720 now and i look like this so i don't like the way we're teaching this sensitivity level that's so

00:32:29.140 sensitive like it's just insanely sensitive that we that's not going to do any of us any good

00:32:34.600 you guys are angry and we're angry and now we're fighting each other um buck do you think part of

00:32:41.820 the problem is because i think society was has been made aware and is aware that the issue of

00:32:48.700 gay rights was handled disgracefully for a long period of times you know the gay gay people the

00:32:54.000 gay community suffered a lot and it's only until recently that they were able to get married etc

00:32:59.060 etc and people are looking at trans and thinking oh shit we don't want to make the same mistake

00:33:03.560 again and we let's go all the way with this do you think that's part of the problem you know

00:33:09.920 here's the deal i've been fighting for gay rights for 30 plus years it's my community where i have

00:33:15.340 been. And so I've seen a lot. I lost a lot of friends during the AIDS crisis. Like it was insane

00:33:19.640 what I've seen and what I've gone through with this community. It's resilient beyond belief.

00:33:24.080 And so we still don't have the gay rights you're talking about. Yeah, we can get married and you

00:33:28.040 have those things, but people are still majorly homophobic. You know that as well as I do.

00:33:32.260 That's not something that will ever change. I do not believe it. So I use that same analogy when

00:33:37.420 it comes to the trans community. People are not forever going to accept us and trans is just going

00:33:42.520 to be this normalized thing. It's not. It's also not a normalized thing. This is an actual condition

00:33:47.780 I have. It's called gender dysphoria. It's not just some, so that's why I'm telling you there's

00:33:52.300 a difference here between where I'm at. It's a medical condition that I would have killed myself

00:33:58.440 if this didn't happen. And I'm not saying that my story is the end all be all, but now we have

00:34:03.780 identity choices where kids are saying they don't even have dysphoria and they're trans. So I'm like,

00:34:09.340 what why would you ever want to be trans you know it's like saying i'm gay but i'm not gay

00:34:14.880 because i want to be gay like what so i was just going to say but because you you've alluded to

00:34:23.200 you know why would you want to be trans i think this is really important what it what is the life

00:34:28.660 of a trans person like particularly when it comes to the medication the day-to-day because i think

00:34:34.380 it's really important that people listen to us from the from the mouth of a trans person and

00:34:39.400 they actually understand it for themselves that's right it's like i work with a lot of parents here

00:34:44.420 in los angeles and their kids and one of the things i try to really help them about is let

00:34:48.700 your kid be your kid if your kid wants to wear a dress let them who cares let them wear pants let

00:34:54.480 them do that it's like we're not it just i don't know i'm frustrated as you can see i really am

00:35:00.700 because I don't understand why you would push a child into a space that can actually make them

00:35:08.160 be in this space for the rest of their lives. It is not fun. This hashtag trans is beautiful.

00:35:14.200 It's not a beautiful space to be in. It's a space that you get to and hopefully that it gets to put

00:35:19.920 you in a space like me where I'm a very functioning person and I get to have this great space. But

00:35:25.540 I'll say it again. I wished I wasn't born this way and I wished I was born as a man. So that being

00:35:31.240 said, why would anyone want to be trans? I don't understand that. And so when I say that, I say

00:35:36.680 that's why it's turned into an identity choice. And so these kids don't have to have dysphoria

00:35:41.880 and these kids don't have to take medication, but they can just be called trans. That's the

00:35:46.900 crack in the system right there that ruined the whole community. Because I remember when it

00:35:51.340 happened, all these kids started claiming trans and they're like, we don't have dysphoria and we

00:35:55.140 don't need to have dysphoria and then I was like what's happening here where all these kids becoming

00:36:00.060 trans without any dysphoria said something to me that oh wow this has become an identity this has

00:36:07.600 become this place where kids just want to be trans and so I can't answer the I don't know why

00:36:13.400 it got to that space and I find it to be quite dangerous to be honest with you

00:36:17.640 it sounds like you're kind of your thinking is very much where we're at because you know the

00:36:23.400 place we started from was people said to us oh you need to discuss the transition we're like why

00:36:29.960 it's an issue that affects a tiny minority of people it makes no difference to the vast majority

00:36:35.000 of people's lives but then i think and tell me what you think about this bug because this is how

00:36:41.160 i've been thinking about it you know most normal liberal-minded people are like look you're an

00:36:47.460 adult. Do whatever you want. Get on with your life, right? But when you start asking me to believe

00:36:55.380 things that are patently untrue, that's where I'm like, well, I'll call you she or he or whatever,

00:37:02.740 but I'm not going to pretend that a biological man who has some reassignment or maybe doesn't

00:37:09.500 is the same as a woman, as a female. I'm not going to pretend that they should be fighting

00:37:14.940 in a cage together or competing in sports or doing any of those like or should be in the same prison

00:37:20.480 so I want to be welcoming I want to be understanding I want to be compassionate but on the other hand

00:37:27.600 I'm confronted with let's just be honest lies I'm being confronted with lies and I don't want to end

00:37:34.580 up in the bigot camp but you're but these people are pushing me in there by forcing me to accept

00:37:39.680 all these lies which i'm not gonna do and that makes me upset for you as as a transsexual man

00:37:45.860 i don't want you to be put in that space and i as a transsexual man would never put you in that

00:37:50.220 space i just wouldn't because as you see what did i say earlier i'm a biological woman when i when i

00:37:56.640 say that and i put it into the universe what do you say well buck's totally living in reality

00:38:01.380 and i will respect buck and buck is a he i can't imagine that you guys would ever call me she

00:38:07.040 You probably would never do that because it would be coming from a disrespectful space because I don't disrespect you and you don't disrespect me.

00:38:15.320 I said to you, the reality of my transition, who I am, what I'm doing, you're like, fuck, that's cool, dude.

00:38:20.260 Right on.

00:38:21.020 That's our connection.

00:38:22.960 And you see that's the way the world reacts to me because I'm living in a reality.

00:38:27.540 Now we're putting on the table biology isn't real.

00:38:30.360 Anyone can have a sex chain.

00:38:32.140 You don't have to have dysphoria.

00:38:33.240 We're putting all this nonsense out there that is making you go, wait a minute here.

00:38:37.680 The trans space is not real.

00:38:40.160 And you're pushing against everything me and many of the trans elders before me fought for, which is to find our space and have the world just say, hey, man, if that's the thing that's going to make you better.

00:38:50.460 Look, let me give you the example of my father, the most macho ex-football player.

00:38:55.140 Imagine, you know, America, like he's like, he's just that dude, right?

00:38:58.880 You're my daughter.

00:38:59.960 You'll always be my daughter.

00:39:01.160 There's no way you're always going to be a Laura Jane.

00:39:04.180 He would call me Laura looking like this.

00:39:06.500 I'm like, dad, people are going to think you're nuts.

00:39:09.200 We're like out at a restaurant.

00:39:10.880 But anyway, finally, he just said to me the other day, he's like, look, I respect where you're at.

00:39:16.560 And I was like, what?

00:39:17.740 He goes, I get it.

00:39:18.600 All this trans stuff on the TV that I'm seeing now I get where you're at.

00:39:22.920 And I don't understand what they're doing to these children.

00:39:25.220 My dad said that.

00:39:26.240 He said, if that would have been the opportunity for me to do that to you when you were a child, because I wouldn't have done it.

00:39:31.160 He said he would not have done it. And he doesn't believe in that. But he now respects me as a man because he sees what I have done to create that space. And he knows that I respect myself and he respects me back. So I don't think we're giving respect to the world when we're pushing. And we're saying you got to change all of your beliefs for us. And if you don't change all your beliefs for us, you're a TERF, you're transphobic. That's not change, my friends. That's an ideology. That's pushing people into belief system that they will not.

00:40:00.500 I don't expect you ever to believe that I'm a man.

00:40:02.940 And if you don't want to, that's your choice.

00:40:04.500 I find my other space in the world.

00:40:06.380 That's why I walk the world free.

00:40:08.960 It's a really great point that you've expressed there.

00:40:11.660 And it's so important because it just feels that we're being driven apart.

00:40:16.360 And to me, I feel sad because it feels like trans people have become a pawn in this giant game.

00:40:21.540 That's right.

00:40:22.300 That's why I say it all the time.

00:40:23.840 We're now being used.

00:40:25.280 We're being used in that system to change something.

00:40:27.980 Is it money related?

00:40:29.160 Well, you know, I do a little of my research. And when I start seeing stock market money watch tell us to invest in trans surgeries, I'm like, hey, there it is. Follow the money, my friends. I start seeing weird stuff. And then I'm like, wait a minute. Am I am I being paranoid? Am I you know, so I start even thinking to myself, like, are they just trying to help all these trans people or is pharmaceutical jumping in on it? Is surgeons jumping on?

00:40:53.680 why has it grown in the last year or two so fast i can't even believe it they're handing out

00:41:00.140 hormones like candy you don't even need to go to mental health care anymore you can just walk

00:41:04.200 into a clinic say i'm trans within an hour you're taking testosterone uh-uh no not cool not cool

00:41:10.840 and this holy shit yeah this is a question and the reason i'm asking i'm asking this question

00:41:18.480 buck is because i i feel that you know that there's a connection between us

00:41:22.700 yeah what is it like to take testosterone and what effect does it have on your body because

00:41:29.320 people just say i take hormones and they just like you know like you take a vitamin pill

00:41:34.260 that's what i said earlier i have to inject testosterone in my body every week i hate it

00:41:41.280 i've been doing it for 26 years i still get like a little i gotta put that needle in my butt like

00:41:46.440 let's see. It's a thing. It reminds you every week. It reminds me that I'm not a biological man

00:41:52.140 every week. It reminds me that I am not a normal person every week. It reminds me that this is the

00:41:58.280 place of my life and I just have to deal with it. It's like having, you know, any other kinds of

00:42:03.380 things that you're not normalized. So, so that being said, that's what I'm trying to say. It's

00:42:09.340 like when we start to put people in a medicalized space, that's a whole other level. There's no

00:42:15.460 turning back. I can't turn back. Look at me. I can't say I changed my mind. I'm, I'm actually

00:42:21.540 a woman that would be insane and so wrong. So why are we not adding a cushion? When I transitioned,

00:42:28.180 there was a cushion. We had an actual system. I had to go to a therapist for two years. I had to

00:42:33.540 live as a man for a couple of years. Then I had to get a note from my therapist to go to see my

00:42:37.800 endocrinologist who never, ever worked with him. You know, I was the first here in Los Angeles

00:42:43.060 when this man he had never worked with a trans man he only worked with men becoming women and

00:42:48.040 he said to me you will be my guinea pig he actually called me his guinea pig and i didn't have a

00:42:52.560 choice and that was the space i was in but i don't want other people to be in that space and it's

00:42:57.280 like take your time and think about it why are we rushing why are we rushing kit why are we rushing

00:43:02.520 to get everybody medicalized and on hormones i don't that's the part that scares me what about

00:43:08.380 of the counter argument that i can think to there we had india willoughby who is a trans uh gender

00:43:14.620 present tv presenter on our show okay and when i said said to her well if you could have transitioned

00:43:19.400 at the age of five would you she was like absolutely so is that maybe why people are

00:43:25.100 rushing they're like well you know if someone's life is going to be ruined by having to go through

00:43:30.220 male puberty etc why don't we get in there early and save them and help them out prove it prove it

00:43:37.360 prove it to me right now that that child and now that's one story that's one story that's not five

00:43:42.740 million stories prove it that her one space is going to change the whole thing that's her story

00:43:49.080 that's not my story i had remember what i said earlier i had a happy childhood i don't know if

00:43:54.000 i would have transitioned because i lived as a boy my parents that's social transitioning so i

00:43:59.380 have a counter argument to that and i do believe that we should social transition children and i

00:44:04.720 think what i was saying earlier is i have some kids here and parents that i'm working at they're

00:44:07.700 social transitioning their children their children are happy they're playing with the other kids no

00:44:12.360 one says anything the kid changed his name to billy or whatever and everyone calls him billy

00:44:16.680 and they're all in third grade their graders don't know shit right they're just like playing

00:44:20.140 with each other we're we are pathologizing third graders and like two-year-olds like are you

00:44:29.200 kidding me like come on man i'm gonna push back on that a two-year-old might say i'm

00:44:34.700 a boy big deal let him just dress like a boy who cares but why are you so and why are people

00:44:40.160 celebrating their trans kids as if it's this thing i would hate it if my parents did that

00:44:46.780 celebrating my what if the child grows out of it and if by 15 they're no longer trans then what

00:44:51.980 do you think that kid's going to be pissed that their parents put them on display

00:44:55.380 when they were two i would be so would i i want to move on because you know as i said about your

00:45:03.000 absolutely correct criticism that we focus on.

00:45:06.880 What strikes me whenever we've spoken to people,

00:45:10.360 particularly like you who transition quite late in life,

00:45:13.100 is you have a unique experience,

00:45:15.360 which is you've lived both as a man and a woman.

00:45:18.840 That's right.

00:45:19.640 Talk to me about what you notice

00:45:23.220 about the process of being treated as a man

00:45:27.560 and being treated as a woman.

00:45:29.120 What is the difference?

00:45:30.620 you know sometimes a lot often women will talk to us guys and say well you know it's being a

00:45:36.380 woman's like this and you guys have no idea what it's like and everyone's like well is it true is

00:45:41.020 it not true you actually sort of know the answer i imagine right that's what i always say who knows

00:45:45.820 women better than a man who used to be a woman so there's a lot my friend first off let me just

00:45:52.280 tell you yeah i i love being a man it's just a whole other space it's fucking great isn't it

00:45:58.120 I love it. Are you kidding me? I love it. I have so many dude friends like you guys,

00:46:04.360 just regular dudes who just hang out with. And I think on some level that made me enjoy the world

00:46:10.380 because I was accepted in the world, if that makes sense. Right. So, so, so that being said,

00:46:15.600 the question was again, the question was like living as a woman and living as a man.

00:46:20.740 Yeah. What do you, what have, what have you noticed about your life about, I don't know

00:46:26.480 about applying for jobs but like the normal day-to-day stuff that people talk about women

00:46:31.020 often talk about you know there's a different vibe in a in a women's space as a man's space

00:46:36.120 well there is right there is there's a hundred percent is what i told you earlier i was i was

00:46:41.720 socialized as a woman and even though i was a butch woman i was still a woman and you get

00:46:46.600 treated different oh gosh so here's an example i used to own a 1955 ford truck that i you know

00:46:51.800 and i was a chick i was a totally butch chick and i would work on my truck you know i was trying to

00:46:55.720 hyper masculinized, you know, I wanted to be a dude. So I was as dude as you could be. And

00:46:59.460 that's pretty duty working on your truck. And I would go to the auto parts store and they would

00:47:04.520 literally dudes would walk in front of me. They would push me out of the way. They would never

00:47:09.000 help me. I would stand in that line for hours until finally somebody would be like, Hey, what

00:47:13.640 do you need? So there is a, and now if I walk into the auto parts store, it's like, I could be the

00:47:17.840 first dude in line. They're like, Hey dude, what do you need? It's a night and day. The way I walk

00:47:22.520 the world is night and day. You get treated differently as a woman. And that's what I keep

00:47:26.060 saying. The world is misogynist. People don't like women on some level and people look at women in a

00:47:32.220 down way as if they're lesser than. And there's so many levels of it. It could be a whole other show

00:47:37.820 of me and I could show you the difference of that and that. But that being said, there is a

00:47:43.000 difference. There's 100% a difference how you walk the world, how the way people see you, the way

00:47:46.960 you're treated i mean it's just night and day for me and and so by seeing and living as a woman

00:47:53.180 i have a lot of compassion for women and i have a lot of compassion for where they're at and i

00:47:58.900 always say that women's rights are still way the fuck back there they're nowhere so now we're

00:48:03.840 putting the trans thing into it and it's making it even more cracked i'm like no trans women are

00:48:09.580 not women trans women are women are trans women are trans women so even you're confused now i know

00:48:16.400 i'm like what are they because it's been inundated it's been put in my brain right trans women are

00:48:20.140 women trans see what they do they do that that's like very like weird culty shit when you start

00:48:25.460 putting stuff in and the people just see it they immediately just start saying it but i i disagree

00:48:30.220 with that trans women are not women trans women are trans women trans men are trans men and if

00:48:35.060 we take that equation out of there we're actually doing ourselves a disservice i don't go to the

00:48:39.520 same doctor you go to i i don't get to have a prostate exam i have to go to the gynecologist

00:48:44.500 and that's a whole other space so you know what i mean we don't have the same needs i'm not the

00:48:50.020 same man as you so why do we take out that trans label i don't understand that and buck here's a

00:48:56.500 question so when you transition what was your favorite thing about being a man that as a woman

00:49:03.500 you just didn't have access to or was a complete struggle for you so no when i started becoming a

00:49:10.420 man like I just felt this relief and you know it was like people saw me I can tell you the number

00:49:17.380 one thing for me was people seeing me as a man because if you see my pictures before you know

00:49:23.020 I was butch but I still was a female characteristics and even though I would tell people I'm a he

00:49:28.540 they would always call me she so I understand the misgender thing it's hurtful but at the same time

00:49:33.660 as I started transitioning and started oh my it was magic it was magic and then when I got my top

00:49:39.380 surgery and I didn't have any more breasts. And I could, the number one thing for me was to go

00:49:43.920 around without my shirt on and to go into the gym and to take my clothes off with the other guys

00:49:49.220 and to look like other men. And that really, I'm telling you, my physical part of my transition

00:49:54.820 was so important. As you can see, I think it was so important to me. It was important to me to

00:49:59.460 physically look and feel masculine. And so today we get pushed back on that in the trans community.

00:50:05.500 it's called passing and now they look down upon it as if you're not supposed to do this you're

00:50:11.920 supposed to just identify as trans and not i don't know it's all over the place and do you

00:50:17.800 think that's part of the problem this term community when people say you know the gay

00:50:21.520 community well look but you know there's tens of thousands of gay people in the uk they you know

00:50:26.740 they're different they have different political opinions views of the world just because you have

00:50:31.680 a sexuality or you're trans doesn't really mean necessarily that you have anything in common with

00:50:37.280 another trans or gay person oh my god thank you for saying that my friend that's just like

00:50:41.860 oh my god a mature conversation i don't understand that either i don't have a lot of trans friends

00:50:49.360 like i said earlier i have friends from every walk of life all kinds of people i don't hang

00:50:54.020 out in the trans community i think that's dangerous any community if you're just you

00:50:58.440 know stuck in one space all you're hearing is that right so you're living in that bubble and

00:51:03.620 that's that's why there's angry that's why there's a lot of angry trans people because they're living

00:51:08.640 in that one space and i keep encouraging them to get out into the world what's the whole point of

00:51:14.460 transitioning if you're living in that same space aren't you supposed to be transitioning to go live

00:51:18.660 your life trans is that part of you of this it's not even i don't even think about it anymore on

00:51:23.880 some level it's like i'm part of the world now i do so many different things that was my goal

00:51:28.420 to transition to be a part of the world i don't feel like they're transitioning to be a part of

00:51:32.440 the world i feel they're transitioning to be trans which then keeps you locked into this space and

00:51:37.800 you're not participating in life it's a really interesting point and it resonates with me quite

00:51:42.760 a lot oddly enough because when i came to britain from russia as a kid i i was having a hard time i

00:51:48.800 didn't really speak the language and i naturally clung to other russian people at my school and

00:51:54.140 My parents were always saying to me, we didn't send you to England to talk to other Russians.

00:51:59.300 You need to learn the language, learn the culture.

00:52:02.200 You need to understand.

00:52:03.360 You need to integrate.

00:52:04.220 And I have Russian friends, but not a lot of them.

00:52:06.720 And I've certainly never clung to that community.

00:52:09.360 And I guess what really strikes me about our conversation with you, Buck, is you are comfortable in your own skin.

00:52:15.620 And that's where your ability to be OK with reality comes in.

00:52:19.960 whereas i think if you had been uncomfortable with who you are that's when people start to

00:52:26.240 have to try and change the world around them to fit their agenda do you think that's true

00:52:31.320 no that's an excellent excellent point my friend and yeah looking at it i can see that because

00:52:36.060 before my transition i was an angry person i did act out i did all kinds of crazy stuff man if i

00:52:41.920 thought it was just insane i can't even believe my mind was homeless i was a prostitute i was a

00:52:45.420 crackhead. I could go on and on. I hated myself. I wanted to die. It was like so insane. But that

00:52:51.520 being said, I worked through it and got it. And that was such a long time ago. People don't have

00:52:55.960 to go through that. But there's a lot of anger in the community, a lot. And I don't know what

00:53:01.240 these people are angry about because the opportunities to transition are literally

00:53:05.420 at your fingertips. I didn't have that. I had to seek and seek and seek and seek. And so again,

00:53:11.920 not to say my story is more tragic than anybody else's, but all I'm trying to say is I don't

00:53:16.280 know what the anger is about. And I'm wondering if they're being told to be angry, you know what

00:53:20.920 I mean? And push back, but that doesn't create change. Look at you guys. You don't even want

00:53:25.200 to change. You don't even want to have a conversation with that. You're, you're disgusted

00:53:28.260 with it, which I don't blame you on some level, but that being said, that's not creating change.

00:53:32.560 That's creating pushback. You see what I mean? And so I keep telling my community,

00:53:36.600 why are we pushing an agenda on people that clearly don't necessarily believe in it?

00:53:41.100 How can we figure out a way to meet them in the middle and say, hey, wait a minute, we respect your opinion and I respect my opinion and let's move forward.

00:53:48.960 That's how you create change, by respecting other people's opinions or thoughts and saying, how do we work together to make it a better world?

00:53:56.120 But we're not doing that.

00:53:58.040 And it's it's a really, really, really good point.

00:54:00.740 But and it's a really lovely place also to end the interview.

00:54:04.840 It's been absolutely brilliant.

00:54:06.740 But thank you so much for coming on the show.

00:54:08.780 the last question we always end our show with is what's the one thing we're not talking about

00:54:13.960 as a society but we really should be oh compassion compassion empathy love those are my favorite

00:54:21.220 words we're not talking about how to be compassionate instead of hateful and that

00:54:25.660 comes from and that goes out to everyone in the world how are you participating in the world are

00:54:30.540 you putting out hate are you putting out compassion because hate will not change anything compassion

00:54:35.240 will. It's interesting that you say that, Buck. We'll just explore it a touch. We've got a couple

00:54:40.080 more minutes. I'm all down for being compassionate. And I think, you know, the way we've had this

00:54:45.740 conversation, I think you get that from me, right? Yes, yes. But what strikes me as odd is the very

00:54:51.200 people who claim that they are compassionate nowadays are the ones that are doing a lot of

00:54:58.440 the hating. That's right. That was my message to them right there. You're exactly 100%. I keep

00:55:04.580 saying it. My community is angry, but what are they angry about? They're not saying what they're

00:55:09.820 angry about. They're just calling people names. They call me transphobic, TERF, all of those

00:55:14.860 things. Can you imagine I'm called transphobic? I'm like, wait a minute. Oh, you have internalized

00:55:19.980 transphobia. I'm thinking, wow, they're like totally going deep with this stuff.

00:55:25.640 So that's not creating change. That's creating hate. Do you see what I mean? And I understand

00:55:30.320 why you can't have compassion. When you're getting hate thrown at you, you turn around and have hate

00:55:35.120 back. That's a real thing. It's what you put out in the world, you should get back. And it's why

00:55:39.220 I try to put out more compassion and love and try to listen. Nobody's listening. Everybody's so

00:55:44.040 angry. And so that's, I think, the crux of what the conversation is here for me is that we need

00:55:49.680 to get away from the anger and we need to start having some dialogue because if we don't, both

00:55:54.780 sides are going to just not work together. And what's going to happen can be a very disastrous

00:55:59.260 thing for me as well this this this actually affects my transition this whole thing and you

00:56:05.700 know there's a little bucks there's a lot of little bucks out there and those little bucks don't need

00:56:09.560 to be caught into this bullshit political conversation they need just to be getting

00:56:13.420 taken care of so they can move on in the world and become a better person that's a really great

00:56:18.480 point listen thank you so much for coming on if people want to follow you and find out more about

00:56:23.640 what you talk about uh where where do they go to to follow you you can find me everywhere just go

00:56:29.100 to twitter buck oh watch out for twitter kids twitter instagram buck angel facebook uh official

00:56:35.480 buck angel youtube as well oh youtube too i always forget my official buck angel and i have some good

00:56:41.280 stuff i think coming up on youtube so check it out fantastic buck thank you so much for coming on and

00:56:46.580 thank you all for watching and listening we will see you very soon with another brilliant episode

00:56:51.280 like this one or Raw Show.

00:56:53.020 All of them go out at 7pm UK time.

00:56:55.160 Take care and see you soon, guys.

TRIGGERnometry - May 30, 2021

＂Stop Medicalising Kids＂ - Buck Angel

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