TRIGGERnometry - Suella Braverman： “We Are Not in Control of Our Border”

00:00:00.880 The simple fact is we are not in control of our southern border.

00:00:05.600 It's now time to leave the European Convention on Human Rights.

00:00:08.560 And why haven't we already?

00:00:09.760 Well, unfortunately, I was a lone voice advocating that around the cabinet table.

00:00:14.080 It just seems that the Conservative Party can't actually implement their policies.

00:00:19.600 You, the government, previous governments have failed to do it. Why?

00:00:23.280 Why is it happening? We keep voting, we keep saying we want to deal with this issue.

00:00:27.680 Nothing happens. Why?

00:00:28.880 Ultimately, there has been a political resistance.

00:00:33.680 The Prime Minister, you know, didn't want to engage in this subject and didn't want to...

00:00:38.960 Why not?

00:00:39.440 ...deliver on it. You'd have to ask him.

00:00:41.440 There was a huge mountain of resistance that I was met with from the Treasury itself.

00:00:48.640 Don't give me a politician's answer, because we both know your party, 0.99

00:00:52.480 to put it very bluntly, is screwed. Do you think you will win the next election? 0.52

00:00:57.600 Well, I have said already, on the evidence before us, we are heading for electoral oblivion.

00:01:03.280 Things can change. There is still time, and that is why it is my constant plea to the Prime Minister to change course.

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00:01:40.800 So, Ella, welcome to the show. You're a recent and former Home Secretary, so the stuff we want to talk to you about was very much the stuff that was in your brief when you were in that job.

00:01:52.400 Before we do, I just thought it would be interesting to find out a little bit about who you are.

00:01:56.000 How did, because you know, the way politics seems to happen nowadays is sort of this person pops up and suddenly the media tells you who they are,

00:02:02.240 and that's the opinion everyone has. Who are you? How did you get here?

00:02:06.720 Well, I'm a mum. First and foremost, I have two young children.

00:02:13.280 I'm someone who has been originally born in London, in Wembley.

00:02:20.320 My parents are from Mauritius and Kenya. They came here in the 1960s with pretty much nothing.

00:02:27.200 And we are proud patriots, very proud and grateful to be part of this great country, this amazing country, what Britain's done for the world.

00:02:37.280 And I grew up in London. I worked as a barrister for a decade, the self-employed bar.

00:02:43.680 And then I was elected to Parliament as a Conservative MP for the wonderful constituency of Fairham in Hampshire.

00:02:50.640 And so it's probably coming up to nine years that I've been a Conservative politician.

00:02:55.840 It's interesting that you say something that we do not hear, not just politicians, but anyone say anymore,

00:03:01.360 which is the wonderful things Britain has done for the world.

00:03:04.640 What are you talking about? So I thought we were just evil and, you know, empire and all of that.

00:03:09.440 What has Britain done for the world?

00:03:10.960 Well, you'd be forgiven for having that view, wouldn't you today?

00:03:13.280 Because it's very unfashionable to talk about the greatness of Britain and Britain's contribution to civilization over the centuries.

00:03:24.960 But reasons why I admire our country, indeed, why my parents, who were children of empire,

00:03:31.360 children of empire, who grew up admiring the mother country and Britain and the British Empire, are manifold.

00:03:39.360 It was Britain that, you know, brought us Magna Carta, the basis of our common law system and civil liberties.

00:03:48.720 It's Britain that is the home of parliamentary democracy.

00:03:51.520 Our houses of parliament is the mother of all parliaments and has emulated the world over for a reason,

00:03:59.280 because of its structure and its constancy.

00:04:01.760 It's Britain that led the Industrial Revolution.

00:04:04.240 It's Britain that fought protectionism.

00:04:06.400 It's Britain that abolished slavery.

00:04:08.240 It's Britain that has led the fight against the Nazis in World War II.

00:04:12.800 It's Britain that has led the new chapter for the West in terms of self-government and supremacy when it comes to Brexit.

00:04:21.440 It's Britain that's led many bold and courageous moves on diplomacy and foreign policy,

00:04:28.720 not least in terms of the fight against Putin and the fight against Islamism around the world. 0.95

00:04:35.120 So I'm incredibly proud of what Britain has represented over the centuries.

00:04:40.640 And I'm very optimistic for our country in the future.

00:04:43.280 And you mentioned your parents coming over as children of empire.

00:04:46.560 We have heard some people who say, well, you know, a lot of people who did come over,

00:04:51.360 and including the Windrush generation, they came over with these grand expectations, 0.56

00:04:55.520 but perhaps were not treated so well when they got here.

00:04:57.920 Was that your parents' experience here?

00:05:00.480 Listen, my parents came here for kind of different reasons.

00:05:05.040 My father was of Asian origin and was born in Nairobi in Kenya.

00:05:11.440 And in the 1960s, he was effectively expelled from East Africa with many of the Asian people.

00:05:20.160 And he didn't want to come to the United Kingdom.

00:05:22.640 He loved Kenya and he loved Africa, actually.

00:05:27.120 But he had no choice.

00:05:28.480 And it was Britain that offered him shelter.

00:05:30.720 It was Britain that offered him opportunity and safety.

00:05:34.640 And so he came here, I think he was 19 years old, with nothing, no money, no family, no friends.

00:05:40.800 And he feels very grateful for the opportunities that Britain gave him.

00:05:46.880 He started from very humble beginnings on the shop floor of a paint factory.

00:05:52.160 And he's made his life here.

00:05:53.840 And, you know, he's never been back to Kenya.

00:05:57.600 He's now an old man.

00:05:58.960 You wouldn't mind me saying that about him, but he's in his 70s.

00:06:01.760 But he feels very proud and grateful for Britain's welcome and the camaraderie of the British people.

00:06:08.160 Of course, there was hostility when he first came.

00:06:12.320 That's well chronicled.

00:06:13.600 But overall, this was a welcoming country for him and has allowed him to lead a very safe and prosperous life.

00:06:20.400 My mother, on the other hand, was actually much more willing to come to the United Kingdom. 0.69

00:06:25.520 She was recruited as an 18-year-old girl by the NHS in Mauritius after the war.

00:06:32.000 And she came here in the 1960s really because she wanted to leave the confines of a small island.

00:06:40.160 And she wanted to better herself.

00:06:42.160 And the NHS was a symbol, a beacon of excellence and opportunity for her.

00:06:46.720 And to be part of Britain was a great honour for her.

00:06:50.320 And she worked for 45 years as a nurse. 0.82

00:06:53.840 She served as a Conservative counsellor for about 16 years.

00:06:58.240 And she too would say that she's incredibly proud of what Britain gave her here as a young adult,

00:07:06.240 but also of what the British Empire did for her country, Mauritius.

00:07:10.320 If you look at what the British did in those countries, they brought the civil service,

00:07:14.800 they brought the ports, the infrastructure, the education system, the legal system,

00:07:19.440 many of the structures that are used today.

00:07:21.280 And, you know, those are wholly good things.

00:07:26.000 And Suala, why are you Conservative?

00:07:28.560 Because there is this narrative, particularly amongst the left, that if you are the product

00:07:34.240 of a second generation immigrant or first generation immigrant, you should actually be on the left.

00:07:40.160 You should be a Labour supporter.

00:07:43.200 Again, that's a really good question, because as you say, there's a perception that if you're

00:07:47.280 from an ethnic minority, you can't possibly be of the right or a member of the Conservative family. 0.99

00:07:54.960 And I'm a Conservative because I believe fundamentally in aspiration.

00:07:59.600 And I believe that it doesn't matter what skin colour you have, where your parents, what your parents

00:08:08.080 do, how rich you are, what school you went to, there's no limit on what you can achieve with an

00:08:14.080 attitude of ingenuity, determination, personal responsibility. I think that's one of the

00:08:19.680 defining aspects that I really relate to when it comes to the Conservative philosophy, personal

00:08:24.960 responsibility, service, community, family, fairness. And I think that those values are what

00:08:31.680 have made our party great over the years, and which can be very inspirational. We have many stories

00:08:37.440 in our Conservative heritage of people overcoming the odds, starting with very little, but through

00:08:44.160 their own efforts and their determination, achieving huge success for the benefit of the greater good.

00:08:50.480 I think that's a wonderfully empowering and inspiring vision that I hold dear to my heart.

00:08:56.800 Look, I quite agree with you. But touching on the Conservative Party, it seems to me,

00:09:02.640 not to put too fine a point of it, but the Conservative Party is in crisis when they actually,

00:09:07.760 with what they say they're going to achieve, and they consistently fail time after time.

00:09:12.960 When you look at issues like immigration, when you look at issues like housing,

00:09:16.800 it just seems that the Conservative Party can't actually implement their policies.

00:09:23.440 Listen, I'm proud to be a Conservative, and I think we've achieved a lot over the last decade.

00:09:29.440 And, but I also agree, we've got to be honest about where we've fallen short. Immigration, I'm afraid, 1.00

00:09:38.240 is one area, but we have to be honest about not just the Conservative governance of it, but also

00:09:45.200 actually previous Labour administrations. Because if you look at migration, and particularly net migration,

00:09:50.640 legal migration, let's park the issue of the small boats aside for a moment, but the issue over which we

00:09:57.200 have control, administration after administration has roundly failed to lower incoming numbers, lower net

00:10:06.000 migration, despite promises being made to the British people, and despite the British people voting time 0.89

00:10:12.080 and time again for lower overall numbers. You know, I voted for Brexit, partially, because I wanted to lower

00:10:19.360 migration. I campaigned for it. It's a very difficult decision for me to take as a new MP. I had to have a conversation with the

00:10:25.120 then Prime Minister David Cameron, who hadn't been an MP for a year at that stage. And, you know,

00:10:31.440 no one wants to go against the boss at that point in your career anyway. And, you know, I had to say to him,

00:10:37.680 Prime Minister, I'm unable to support you, I'm unable to vote to remain in the European Union, because

00:10:43.200 we need to lower the numbers coming into this country. And we'll only be able to do that if 1.00

00:10:49.760 we're outside of the EU. So Brexit was a call by the British people to lower numbers. The 2019

00:10:56.960 general election and our manifesto pledge was a call from the British people to lower numbers. And I'm

00:11:01.680 afraid if you look at the recent numbers, as of November, we have 700,000 net migration coming into

00:11:10.160 this country compared to 240,000 in 2019. So the numbers have more than tripled. And I think that

00:11:18.640 we need to do better on legal migration. So if I were a mainstream journalist,

00:11:23.040 this would be my gotcha moment, an opportunity to go, well, you were the Home Secretary. Why didn't you?

00:11:28.240 Which, by the way, is a fair question to some extent. And we can get into that. I am more interested

00:11:33.040 more broadly about the point you actually made, which is consecutive governments over decades now have

00:11:38.720 absolutely not delivered on the things that they have told and promised the British people.

00:11:42.960 Why is that? I hear various rumors, you know, the civil service ideologically just won't let it happen.

00:11:48.560 You know, the Treasury is more interested in growth than delivering on the promises about

00:11:53.040 we just care about the economy or rather the numbers that we can then sell to the British public

00:11:57.520 so much that this issue goes by the wayside. You've been there, you've been in charge of the

00:12:02.320 department that is there to control this issue. And you, the government, previous governments,

00:12:08.480 have failed to do it. Why? Why is it happening? That's what so many people say to us. Like,

00:12:12.880 we keep voting, we keep saying we want to deal with this issue. Nothing happens. Why?

00:12:19.600 Well, having served as Home Secretary, I think, ultimately, there has been

00:12:25.680 a political resistance to seriously grapple with the challenges posed by unprecedented levels of

00:12:42.640 migration. Sorry to interrupt. What does political resistance mean? Who are you talking about? Is it

00:12:46.800 the civil service? Is it your own party? Is it the media? Who is causing this not to happen?

00:12:52.960 Well, I can speak only from my own experience and what I've observed.

00:12:55.600 Please.

00:12:55.840 You know, I think that, you know, for my part, I've been very eager to deliver on that policy

00:13:06.960 to lower net migration. And technically, it's very easy to do, actually, from a home office or

00:13:13.120 government point of view. You don't need to pass a law. You don't need to worry about human rights or

00:13:19.040 the court in Strasbourg. You don't need to get any new votes on it. You actually just have to take

00:13:25.520 an administrative and executive decision to do it. And I had the hope that I would be able to

00:13:35.680 do that. And unfortunately, I was met with a lot of resistance from around the cabinet table. And

00:13:41.120 the prime minister, you know, didn't want to engage in this subject and didn't want to

00:13:47.680 deliver on it. You'd have to ask him.

00:13:49.680 Why do you think? You say the cabinet table, that means more than one person, right? So we're talking

00:13:55.840 about a conservative party elected on the promise to lower migration in 2010 to the tens of thousands.

00:14:02.880 We are so far off that. And yet you're saying people within the cabinet of that very government

00:14:07.920 are not keen. And I don't think they're bad people. I don't think the people in the Labour

00:14:12.320 government necessarily were bad people. So the question is, why? Is it because we just care more

00:14:17.440 about importing cheap labour to staff, the NHS? And so the other departments are like, well, if you do

00:14:23.040 this, we're not getting enough foreign students, we're not going to have enough of an economic boost.

00:14:26.800 Is that what's happening?

00:14:27.520 That is effectively the wall of the character of the resistance I came up against. So the economic

00:14:35.120 departments, mainly the Treasury would be very resistant to my proposals to cut net migration.

00:14:41.840 So for example, on workers, you know, my proposal for over a year was we needed to raise the salary

00:14:50.160 threshold. It was 20, 25,000. That's below the average salary in the UK. It should have been

00:14:57.360 I put forward 40,000. There was a huge mountain of resistance that I was met with from the Treasury

00:15:05.840 itself. You know, it was reported at the time that I was having to chase the Chancellor of the Exchequer

00:15:12.720 Jeremy Hunt down the corridor in my efforts to persuade him and sit him down to have the discussion.

00:15:20.240 That was true. That did happen. That illustrates that ministers didn't want to talk about this because

00:15:28.400 there was a prevailing Treasury orthodoxy that set out the view that more people coming into the country

00:15:36.640 was necessarily good for the economy. I dispute that view. But that is the view of the OBR, was the view

00:15:43.600 of the OBR traditionally. They might have been softening that view recently. But generally speaking,

00:15:50.000 the economic departments work on the basis that more people, more economic units coming into the

00:15:57.760 country can only be good for growth. But the issue is with that, whether you agree or disagree with that,

00:16:04.080 it's kind of irrelevant, isn't it? Because the people voted to lower immigration.

00:16:10.720 Therefore, that's something that the government should have done, really. Do you see what I mean?

00:16:16.080 I agree with you, because there's a real problem with the levels of migration that we are carrying 1.00

00:16:21.600 at the moment. One, there's no mandate for it. And we're doing categorically what the British people

00:16:28.800 do not want. Secondly, it's imposing undue burden on our public services, whether it's the NHS,

00:16:38.400 whether it's school places, or whether it's on housing supply. Thirdly, it depresses wages.

00:16:45.280 You know, we know that more people coming into this country are taking jobs at lower levels,

00:16:50.880 at lower wages. And really, what we need employers to do is raise wages. So we create that high-skilled,

00:16:56.000 high-wage economy. And lastly, I think the pace of migration is causing real damage to community

00:17:03.680 cohesion and the social fabric of our country. Because people are coming from countries where 1.00

00:17:10.800 their culture is sometimes at odds with British values and British culture. And I think we are

00:17:16.080 seeing that play out in a very worrying way on our streets. But this is only going to get worse in

00:17:22.080 years to come.

00:17:22.320 What do you mean by that, Suella? You've just made that comment. I think I know what you mean,

00:17:27.520 but what do you actually mean by that?

00:17:28.960 I mean that if you take a hard, honest look at our country, we have towns and cities around the

00:17:39.440 United Kingdom where multiculturalism has failed, where communities are living parallel lives, 0.58

00:17:48.320 where people come here and they don't speak the language, where they come here and they don't

00:17:53.200 want to take part in British life. They don't want to integrate. And in fact, they actively loathe 0.66

00:18:00.800 what Britain stands for. And they are in Britain, but not of Britain. And I think that's very,

00:18:08.320 that's something we need to talk about and we need to face up to, because I think that's

00:18:12.160 that's going to pose, it's already posing real issues with community cohesion, unifying our

00:18:18.960 country at a time when we desperately need unity, and actually trying to heal some of the divisions

00:18:26.640 in our country.

00:18:27.440 Because that, I can't believe that that is a taboo topic. Is it that they're just simply worried

00:18:33.760 about being called a racist, a bigot? Is that what's going on here with people refusing to comment

00:18:38.560 on it or address the subject? I think that there is an element of that. I think many politicians

00:18:46.800 don't like talking about cultural challenges. They don't like saying that certain communities

00:18:57.680 are not signing up to the British way of life out of fear of being called racist. And it's that,

00:19:06.080 that, you know, that readiness generally by the left to jump on anyone who might utter something

00:19:14.800 like that and call them a racist, a bigot, a xenophobe has a real chilling effect. And I think that

00:19:21.520 many politicians would rather just avoid the subject.

00:19:24.800 Because you experienced that when you were Home Secretary. Now, people can say the language that

00:19:31.120 you use could have been described as inflammatory when you were talking about illegal immigration.

00:19:36.560 But to compare it to 1930s Germany, as I think Gary Lineker did, is quite frankly,

00:19:43.520 demented as somebody whose mother is an immigrant, first generation immigrant herself.

00:19:49.600 Yes, that's an example of the hysterical reaction that people get when they're raising very reasonable

00:19:58.640 and necessary issues which go to the heart of what it means to be British. And if people are going to react

00:20:06.560 like that every time someone tries to grapple with this subject or be in a sensitive way, we're not going

00:20:12.320 to get very far. And we're not going to solve the problem that is patently there.

00:20:17.200 Okay, let's talk about another aspect of this issue. Because, okay, I hear the argument we need

00:20:22.720 immigrants to come in, do the jobs, therefore the economy. I think that's incredibly dangerous, 1.00

00:20:27.200 by the way, for your party to be doing. Because if you make it clear to the British public that there's

00:20:32.400 no democracy, I can't vote to achieve the result that I want. Why would I support, A, your party,

00:20:38.720 and B, democracy as a principle? I really think that's a serious danger that we're dealing with

00:20:43.360 here. But at least I understand the rationale. If you're the head of a department that needs workers

00:20:49.280 or whatever, you will push for that. I get it. Why on earth are tens of thousands of people coming

00:20:54.800 into this country every year illegally? That can't be beneficial to this country, even economically. 0.95

00:21:00.480 Even on that argument, that doesn't make any sense. Why is that happening?

00:21:04.160 Well, on illegal migration, we have a real problem with controlling our borders,

00:21:10.160 I'm afraid. And the simple fact is we are not in control of our southern border on the south coast,

00:21:17.280 because at the moment it is being exploited by tens of thousands of illegal arrivals every year.

00:21:24.240 That is undermining our public safety. It's undermining our border control. It's undermining our

00:21:29.440 national security as well. Why have we not managed to fix it? The reason we've not managed to fix it

00:21:36.400 is because we've not been able to deliver our policy of deterrence. We've not been able to deliver our

00:21:41.760 policy of deterrence, i.e. Rwanda, because plainly speaking, the interference of a politicized and

00:21:47.840 interventionist court in Strasbourg, namely the European Court of Human Rights, and its application

00:21:54.000 of the European Convention on Human Rights. So the simple answer is we've not been able to control our

00:21:59.760 borders because of an elastic and disproportionate interpretation of human rights laws.

00:22:06.560 But I didn't vote for the court in Strasbourg, and neither did the British people.

00:22:11.600 So why don't we leave? Why don't we leave the convention? Why don't we? I mean, look,

00:22:16.320 maybe I'm not a political expert, but I generally had the idea that democracy meant that the people of

00:22:21.680 this country get to vote for the way that this country is run. I don't know anyone who's in favour of

00:22:27.040 illegal immigration, including many of my friends on the left. Nobody wants this, and somehow we're

00:22:32.640 still clinging to a policy or a court or whatever that makes us do things that none of us want. How

00:22:38.560 is this possible? Well, we are a member. We are a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights.

00:22:44.560 We are a member of the Council of Europe, the institution that governs the convention. And we are

00:22:50.480 subject to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights. We've signed up legally and

00:22:54.560 constitutionally to all of that institutional framework. So at the moment, we have to abide

00:23:01.200 by it. My view is we've reached the point now, particularly because of the impediment that it

00:23:08.400 poses to our controlling of the borders, but also on many other policy areas, actually,

00:23:13.840 it's now time to leave the European Convention on Human Rights.

00:23:16.800 And why haven't we already?

00:23:17.760 Well, unfortunately, I was a lone voice advocating that around the cabinet table. And the reality of

00:23:25.600 working in government is even if you're Home Secretary, you cannot act unilaterally. You do

00:23:30.480 need collective agreement. You do need the support of mainly the Prime Minister and ideally the majority

00:23:36.640 of your cabinet and ministerial colleagues before you do anything. So that is unfortunately why we've not

00:23:42.320 been able to stop the boats. That's also actually why we've not been able to take action soon enough

00:23:48.320 on legal migration. I didn't have collective agreement. I didn't have the support of the Prime Minister.

00:23:52.720 I apologise if I'm asking stupid questions, but what is the rationale for your cabinet colleagues 0.94

00:23:59.840 to not want to do this? I don't understand. 0.96

00:24:02.960 Well, their argument is that it's far too radical. It would put us in the same category as Russia and 0.78

00:24:13.360 Belarus, who have left the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights, and it would be 0.93

00:24:20.880 damaging to our international reputation. Can we not have our own code that makes sure that we are

00:24:25.520 protecting the human rights of people in these situations, but in a way that the British public approve of?

00:24:31.360 Well, that would be my proposal. We leave the European Convention on Human Rights and in doing so

00:24:37.280 complete the job of Brexit. That would enable us to take back control of our laws and our borders.

00:24:44.320 We leave the jurisdiction of the foreign courts, which is politicised and interventionist, and we

00:24:50.960 actually design and deliver our own Bill of Rights here in the United Kingdom by the UK Parliament with a

00:25:00.480 mandate from the UK population and which is applied by UK judges in UK courts. That, I believe, is a much

00:25:10.240 better and legitimate way of protecting people's rights and civil liberties, which I care passionately

00:25:17.280 about, but also enabling democratically elected politicians to be held to account on their decisions.

00:25:26.160 So, Ella, wouldn't you say, and look, push back on this if you will, the average person on the street

00:25:31.200 who voted for Brexit, which obviously the majority of people in this country did, would be like,

00:25:36.320 oh, do we even have Brexit if we can't control our borders because a court in Strasbourg

00:25:43.120 tells us that we can't? Is that Brexit? It doesn't sound like it to me.

00:25:46.960 I think the European Convention on Human Rights was left untouched when we left the European Union.

00:25:58.560 They are two distinct and separate entities. And so a lot of people will have assumed that we left the

00:26:06.720 Convention, that we left the Strasbourg Court when we left the European Union. That was not the case.

00:26:12.480 And actually, that's why I feel very passionate that we do need to now leave the Convention on

00:26:17.120 Human Rights, the European Convention on Human Rights, because it will actually complete the job

00:26:20.880 of Brexit. It will restore supremacy to the UK Parliament. We will be able to control our borders.

00:26:27.360 We will be able to control our laws. And we won't be governed by a foreign court.

00:26:31.280 And those were the arguments behind Brexit. And so, you know, I think there's a very compelling

00:26:38.080 argument for departure from the Convention on Human Rights.

00:26:41.440 Because to me, again, and I'm not a lawyer, I'm not an expert in human rights. But when I see a

00:26:50.240 country that is unable to police and protect its borders, what it says to me is that we're not in

00:26:58.800 charge of our own destiny in any shape or form. Because if you can't even protect something as

00:27:03.040 basic as your own borders, how are you in control of your destiny? And the reality is, for me,

00:27:09.440 I don't think we are.

00:27:11.200 I think there's something in that, because ultimately, the situation we have when it comes

00:27:16.720 to border control is that an asylum seeker can come to the UK illegally, and they can claim human

00:27:25.440 rights protections based on a whole range of things, whether that's, as we saw tragically recently, false

00:27:33.040 claims that they may have converted from Islam to Christianity, claims that they may have a family

00:27:38.720 member in the UK, claims that they might be a political dissident of the Iranian regime and

00:27:46.800 therefore to be returned there would be harmful to their welfare. All of those kinds of claims

00:27:54.960 claims enable them to plead human rights in a way that trumps the human rights of the British 0.91

00:28:02.400 people to live in a country where their borders are secure. All of those kinds of claims allow

00:28:10.640 foreign criminals to claim their human rights in a way that prevails over the human rights of victims 0.99

00:28:18.400 and the British people to live in a safe country. I think that balance is totally out of kilter.

00:28:24.000 And that's why, despite trying to fix the problem within the framework for decades,

00:28:30.000 it's now time to leave the European Convention on Human Rights.

00:28:32.240 Because you just touched on it very briefly there, which is a case of Abdulazidi, somebody who was an

00:28:38.240 illegal immigrant into this country, who then committed a heinous attack against a woman and

00:28:44.480 her children using a corrosive substance. And you, me and everybody else is thinking to themselves,

00:28:52.720 why are you even here? You should have been ejected at the, and he was a sex offender on top of that.

00:28:59.920 And granted asylum after he committed a sex offender. I mean, how does that happen?

00:29:04.880 Really shocking. But what would have happened is that he would have claimed human rights protections,

00:29:12.880 whether that's under the Refugee Convention, which is another international document to which we're

00:29:17.360 subject, or the European Convention on Human Rights. He would have claimed, well, I'm a Christian.

00:29:23.040 I'm a Christian now. And because of my God-fearing, devout Christianity, you cannot send me back to

00:29:33.840 my country of origin because I will be persecuted. Because Christians in my Muslim country of origin

00:29:41.200 are tortured. And he would have claimed that. And he would have done that, you know, pretty easily.

00:29:49.280 It's quite, it's quite easy in this country to claim human rights and for judges to uphold the

00:29:56.480 human rights of foreign criminals, illegal migrants, and people who really shouldn't be here. 0.98

00:30:02.080 So Ella, let me ask you a question. I know that there's a lot of politicking around this going on,

00:30:08.480 but how does this get fixed? It's no secret that I think, you know, you've made a couple of digs at

00:30:14.080 the prime minister. It's no secret that I'm sure you'd like to be leader one day to implement your

00:30:19.600 vision of the direction this country should go in. But if you can't even get a cabinet to agree to

00:30:25.680 deal with this issue, even if you were elected as leader of the Conservative Party at some point,

00:30:30.720 and even if you led a government, how, if your party doesn't support the idea of stopping this

00:30:36.720 by leaving the ETH, how is this going to get fixed? Well, I mean, I think if we take legal

00:30:44.160 migration, for example, you know, whilst in government, I was able to persuade the prime

00:30:50.560 minister to take some measures, some minimal measures on students and the dependence on

00:30:55.680 students. Because a large number of the people coming into this country are not actually workers, 0.70

00:31:00.560 they're actually the dependence of workers or the dependence of students. The foreign students 0.82

00:31:06.960 community has skyrocketed in the last few years alone. And when I left office,

00:31:14.080 the prime minister then did announce another package of measures on workers. So he decided to raise the

00:31:20.240 salary threshold. There's a, there's a few other measures on dependence of workers. And I think that

00:31:27.200 change can be achieved by being vocal about what the British people really want. You know, I found that

00:31:36.320 actually, I can achieve more outside government than within government, because I can speak freely.

00:31:41.600 I was unable to argue the case forcefully with public support from within government. When I was outside

00:31:51.440 government, I was able to make the case much more powerfully in public, with a lot of public support.

00:31:59.360 And on that basis, I think the government had to had to respond. Also, given the numbers of 700,000,

00:32:07.440 which were unprecedented, and extremely high. And by the way, I'll be honest with you, it will sound to

00:32:12.560 people, people who are not familiar with our channel, like we're two remain voters, Francis,

00:32:18.080 second generation immigrant through his mother, I'm a first generation immigrant, you're a descendant

00:32:22.640 of immigrants. I actually don't think the British public are against immigration, it's never been

00:32:26.800 my experience. When I came to this country in 1995, I think 3% of the British public thought that

00:32:32.480 immigration was a major issue, because it was in the tens of thousands, it wasn't that big a deal,

00:32:37.120 it wasn't disruptive to the country. But I tell you now, and I can, from speaking to lots of people,

00:32:42.080 if the government and this country and the people who run it carry on down this path,

00:32:46.480 we will get to a point where people are anti-immigration, if this carries on.

00:32:50.880 That's why it's the job of the Conservative Party, moderate centre-right party, to actually

00:32:55.760 deal with this in a sensible and pragmatic way. If we don't, then it will give rise to more

00:33:01.840 far-right sentiments, and people will take a more hostile view towards immigration. You're absolutely

00:33:06.480 right. I'm not against immigration. My own heritage bears that out. But also,

00:33:13.040 we're a richer country because people come here and they want to contribute to our economy and take 1.00

00:33:18.000 part in our country. But we need to also do it in a way that recognises we have finite resources,

00:33:24.960 and we cannot welcome everybody who wants to come to this country. That is the simple truth. And so we 1.00

00:33:32.320 need a regime that enables some control. And if you just take one aspect, on international students,

00:33:41.040 as I said, the number has exponentially grown in recent years. And it's become a backdoor route

00:33:49.120 into the UK, whereby instead of getting the most talented or the best and the brightest brains from

00:33:55.680 around the globe to come to this country, it's turned into a route for low-grade universities to

00:34:03.120 accept poorly qualified people, largely from developing countries, to come into this country to do 1.00

00:34:10.560 low-grade courses. The most popular course is a short business studies course in a low-ranking

00:34:17.120 university. They'll generally bring their partner, their spouse with them, and they won't bother to attend.

00:34:26.640 No one will enforce their attendance or check whether they're actually studying for this qualification.

00:34:32.400 And they will disappear into the black market, in the delivery market, and work on the black market 0.97

00:34:38.560 illegally. And then they will aim to stay here. Because earning in this country, even on a low-paid job, 0.97

00:34:45.680 can be far higher than many countries pay. And so that's why we've seen a lot of, you know, remittances

00:34:53.360 and money transfer companies expand, because people are sending money back to their countries of origin.

00:35:01.600 The universities, the foreign students issue, I believe, has become a racket, whereby a large number 0.99

00:35:12.160 of universities are selling immigration, not education. And I'm afraid we do need to take 1.00

00:35:18.160 meaningful steps to stop that. And I've put forward proposals, they've not been accepted,

00:35:24.400 but I will still keep arguing for the necessary steps that need to be taken to clamp down on this back

00:35:31.840 route into life in the UK.

00:35:33.840 Isn't that just a form of corruption, to be brutally honest with you? You know that these,

00:35:39.760 not you, but these universities know what is going on. They can see from their enrolments,

00:35:45.040 the people who turn up, they come over, they enrol, and then after one or two classes they drop out,

00:35:50.480 there's a consistent theme right the way through. They know what's going on, don't they?

00:35:55.520 I'm afraid a lot of these universities are complicit in what has become a money-making scheme. And the

00:36:01.520 way it works is that these, you know, universities, which are not very good, will make their money

00:36:08.640 through foreign students. That's their source of revenue. So they will jealously guard this 0.72

00:36:14.480 source of income. They don't really care what happens once people arrive. And, you know,

00:36:21.440 many of the students will not attend, will not complete, and will go off and work. We also know

00:36:26.880 of some universities paying agents to go and recruit overseas to recruit students and offer them

00:36:34.880 false documentation, false qualifications, so that they can meet the entry requirements.

00:36:40.240 We've seen a lot of abuse of the system, and that's why it's necessary to rein it in and take

00:36:46.720 necessary. Take the care worker visa. I'm afraid that's also become a route of abuse in our immigration 0.97

00:36:54.080 system. We've seen countless examples where people will come here to the UK on a care workers visa only

00:37:02.720 for it to be discovered that there's no care home which is actually employing them. They don't have the

00:37:09.520 necessary qualifications to be looking after the vulnerable people who they're supposed to be looking 0.79

00:37:13.920 after. And it's been a sham. And again, it's being exploited as a backdoor into the UK. So tighter

00:37:21.120 enforcement is required. I started this work when I was Home Secretary, but it needs to be amplified

00:37:28.480 considerably if we are to properly get a grip on what's become abuse of our immigration rules.

00:37:35.520 And moving on now, obviously being Home Secretary, one of your remits was the police force.

00:37:40.800 And as somebody who has lived in this city for the majority of their life is a Londoner,

00:37:47.920 it seems to me that law and order in the capital city, but also across the UK,

00:37:55.200 we're in a bad place, aren't we, to put it bluntly? When you look at things like knife crime in particular.

00:38:02.000 Sure. There are many challenges. Having served as Home Secretary, I worked very closely with the police.

00:38:10.080 And even to this day, I am fiercely pro-police. And I hope my track record reflects that. I fought for

00:38:21.280 greater powers for the police to make their jobs easier when it comes to using stop and search or

00:38:27.440 arresting militant protesters. We passed a new law specifically to make their jobs easier.

00:38:34.240 I fought for higher pay. We secured one of the highest pay settlements for the police,

00:38:41.600 even accounting for the difficult fiscal environment. I went in to bat for the police,

00:38:46.720 because I thought that, you know, the police can't strike. The police make huge sacrifice. You know,

00:38:52.080 I've met loads of both rank and file and also senior police officers, retired police officers,

00:38:59.680 new recruits. And I was always blown away by the level of dedication and the bravery,

00:39:06.880 bravery that frankly, you or I would never be able to appreciate. And there are countless stories that I

00:39:14.160 came across of remarkable bravery, remarkable boldness, courage and effectiveness that will never be on

00:39:22.480 the front pages. And most, the vast majority of police officers have that in their blood. They sign up to

00:39:28.960 do this work, which is really hard work because they're brave people and because they want to keep

00:39:33.680 people safe and they want to serve the country. That's all incredibly admirable. So, you know, I think

00:39:42.240 there is a lot of good. There's a lot of good in our police force. I also fought for more police officers.

00:39:47.680 We recruited the highest ever number on record in terms of police officers on my watch. So,

00:39:56.000 there is a lot of good. I'm also proud of our track record over the last decade. You know, we've got a record

00:40:02.160 number of police officers. We've also actually seen a fall in crime overall. I know it might not feel that way,

00:40:08.080 but if you compare on a like-for-like basis over the last decade, crime overall has fallen by about 50%.

00:40:14.320 So, you say it might not feel that way. Why doesn't it feel that way then?

00:40:17.200 So, those are all the good things. And being dispassionate.

00:40:21.280 And by the way, just so you know, we've had police officers on the show. Anytime I meet an officer

00:40:26.080 or someone who serves in armed forces, I always thank them for the service. Difficult job,

00:40:30.320 and they deserve utter respect. But it is also true that the experience of the ordinary person

00:40:36.000 on the ground is your car gets broken into, you get a crime reference number for your insurance.

00:40:41.120 That's about it. Right. So, why doesn't it feel like we are safer?

00:40:46.560 Yeah. So, that was what I really came to grapple with as Home Secretary. That despite those,

00:40:54.000 you know, the good things, people don't feel safer. Public confidence is very low in the police. People

00:41:01.280 feel that there's no point calling the police now. It's actually got to that point. And so,

00:41:07.440 I was very interested in what we needed to do to restore trust and rebuild confidence. And the reason

00:41:17.280 why I believe it's got to that position is because I think there's been a disproportionate focus

00:41:25.200 on higher harm crimes, which is, you know, important and necessary, but to the detriment of,

00:41:34.480 you know, I hesitate with using this term because it's, but lower harm, because there's no such thing

00:41:40.400 as lower harm, but lower harm crimes. So, the antisocial behaviour, the criminal damage,

00:41:46.480 the vandalism, the robberies, I mean, they can be very serious harm, burglary, the kind of everyday

00:41:54.320 crime. I do feel that, to a degree, resource has been diverted away from those kinds of crimes.

00:42:00.480 To what? To what kinds of crimes? To higher harm crimes. Like what?

00:42:03.760 Like serious organised crime, violence against women and girls, rape, serious sexual offences,

00:42:11.600 homicide and other violent kind of crime. My job was, I wanted to try and pivot the police and their

00:42:19.760 resource to focus on that crime, which most people will come into contact with and actually reflects

00:42:26.720 the efficacy of their service. And that's why we set out an antisocial behaviour action plan.

00:42:31.680 That's why I made it easier for them to use stop and search powers. I constantly told the police,

00:42:37.680 I really want you to use stop and search. I want you to say, it's one of the best ways of saving lives

00:42:43.120 on the streets. We increase their resources for this kind of crime. So I think there's an issue on

00:42:51.520 resources and how resources have been used. I think secondly, there has also been in some quarters of the

00:42:58.080 police, you know, an issue with politicisation. And I think that has been one of the reasons why there's

00:43:08.960 been operational resistance to take particular decisions. And we've seen that play out on the

00:43:15.200 ground. And so what you're talking about is police painted rainbow colours, people getting arrested

00:43:20.800 for tweets while burglaries go on uninvestigated. Yeah, that sums it up. That doesn't seem to make

00:43:27.600 much sense to the ordinary person, that sort of approach. Yeah, exactly. But the thing is,

00:43:31.840 what I struggle with is given the type of people that go into policing, I can't imagine there's,

00:43:37.840 you know, a senior police officer who's gone into it to repaint the cars and do all of this

00:43:44.560 arresting people. Like, where's that coming from? So you're right, it's not the rank and file.

00:43:50.080 I don't imagine it is, no. If you talk to the vast majority. Exactly. And that's what I always

00:43:55.040 made a point of. I always wanted to meet lower ranking officers and people who weren't necessarily

00:44:01.360 in the leadership positions. And they were very frank with their views to me. And they really resented

00:44:07.280 some of the positions adopted by police chiefs and those in leadership roles. They said it didn't

00:44:17.360 represent them. It wasn't what they signed up for. And it didn't reflect policing. And so the kind of

00:44:24.480 things I became concerned about were, you know, the police taking the knee during the BLM marches,

00:44:32.240 a total expression of a political stance which was unacceptable. Even when you, particularly when

00:44:40.560 you consider that BLM stands for defunding the police. Getting into debates on transgender

00:44:50.000 rights and gender ideology. Some of that can have very, you know, damaging consequences for the safety

00:44:57.280 of women. For example, that's played out in some policies that the police have rolled out, 1.00

00:45:03.120 now withdrawn actually because there's been an outcry on the ability of trans women police officers

00:45:11.920 being able to strip search biologically female suspects. I think that's totally abhorrent and

00:45:19.040 should not be allowed.

00:45:20.000 Really?

00:45:22.720 And the police's guidance said that was permissible. That's an, that's a consequence.

00:45:27.920 Do you have to pinch yourself, Suella? Do you have to pinch yourself when you, when you,

00:45:32.000 when you hear the leader? I mean, I, and I know this sets you up for an easy, easy way to have

00:45:36.240 a go at Keir Starmer. But, you know, when we've got this kind of situation, when we've got

00:45:40.320 a guy who's potentially the next prime minister saying he doesn't know what a woman, like all of this

00:45:44.240 stuff. Do you ever just go like, look around and go, am I in the Truman Show here?

00:45:49.440 Well, it's just more, um, it's terrifying. I'm actually very, uh, anxious about it when I hear

00:45:58.000 senior politicians, senior professionals coming out with these views, because it's not just,

00:46:03.200 you know, the culture war, which can get dismissed, but I think it's, it's incredibly

00:46:08.320 dangerous for our society because what it is, is it's, um, it, it, it's like, um, you know,

00:46:16.800 it's controlling what people should think and say and believe. People have been arrested for saying

00:46:24.320 a man can't be a woman, for, for stating the basic facts of biology. That then has a chilling effect 0.99

00:46:32.240 on freedom of speech, freedom of belief and freedom of thought, fundamental rights to a

00:46:37.920 democracy and a functioning society. And that is where we're getting into a dystopian Orwellian kind

00:46:45.680 of world where thought speak and the thought police are watching what you're saying and thinking. And I

00:46:54.240 am, you know, this is the tip of the iceberg and this is where it starts. And so I find it very

00:47:00.080 worrying, worrying. And that's why I feel very passionate about speaking up against it. Even

00:47:04.480 if I have to take flack and even if I, uh, get demonized for it, I will keep, keep, keep speaking

00:47:11.440 up for the truth because someone has to, and we have to all be brave. And this is what's so great

00:47:16.800 about your show. You are, you are truth tellers and you are courageous in this fight and we need more

00:47:22.480 people on the media to call out this madness. I'll tell you another damaging effect.

00:47:27.360 Let me, let me ask you something. I'm very happy to hear your criticism, but I think

00:47:31.280 one thing we ought to raise here very much in the spirit of truth seeking media is that

00:47:35.440 I think all of us believe in free speech. And there has been an issue with the pro-Palestine

00:47:40.560 protests or the protests against what's happening in Israel, where we also see people getting

00:47:45.600 increasingly punished for slogans, opinions they express and so on. Is there not a bit of a hypocrisy there

00:47:52.160 from, uh, people like us, people like you in terms of saying, well, you know, you can't express this

00:47:57.680 opinion because it's, you know, whatever, but, but these are opinions that must be protected and

00:48:03.520 people should be allowed to. Where's that line? So Ella, how do you draw that line?

00:48:07.280 Right. Well, I think that if we look at the policing of the protests, I think there has been,

00:48:13.600 um, you know, it's been a very difficult job for the police. There's been hundreds of thousands of people

00:48:18.240 parading on a regular basis. And frankly, the police have been outnumbered and notwithstanding

00:48:23.760 that they have made hundreds of arrests, but ultimately three months on, we have the Jewish 0.78

00:48:29.920 community totally terrified and parts of our big cities have become no-go zones for members of our

00:48:38.400 society, law-abiding members of our society. Which areas are you talking about and which cities? What

00:48:46.000 are the no-go zones? I would say central London. Central London, approximately once a week now,

00:48:51.120 has become a no-go zone for Jewish people because the hateful marches are taking place as a regular

00:48:58.000 fixture in our diary. And, um, we've seen synagogues having to close. We've seen Jewish people intimidated

00:49:05.680 and harassed and attacked merely for being Jewish. Uh, now we've seen a member of parliament being

00:49:12.960 hounded out of office because of anti-Semitism, homophobia and racism.

00:49:20.160 And we all comment, but what is, what's happening here? These are all consequences

00:49:26.080 of the phenomenon of mass extremism on our streets. And that's what I believe these marches represented

00:49:32.160 in October. Um, widespread anti-Semitism, anti-Semitic chanting, hateful chanting, racism,

00:49:40.560 uh, the chanting of jihad, um, with the police standing by and not just not enforcing against

00:49:50.720 it, but actually coming out with a justification for it. That was a low point for me when I was

00:49:55.920 Home Secretary. Um, uh, an extremist actually having been found to be advising the Metropolitan

00:50:02.000 Police on their strategic board. Free! Free! Free! Free! Free! Free! What's going on is global

00:50:10.480 censorship by the Zionists. Global censorship to silence us. From the river to the sea! 1.00

00:50:18.240 Palestine will be free! The police telling the Jewish campaigners not to campaign with their boards, 0.91

00:50:30.160 with the pictures of the hostages, pulling down posters of the hostages. There was a double standard,

00:50:36.320 and I think that this needs to be called out. So when your question is about free speech, of course I will

00:50:43.520 protect the right to freedom of assembly, and to peaceful protest, and the right to free speech.

00:50:50.480 But when that crosses a line into hate speech, when it becomes racist speech, when it becomes incitement

00:50:58.320 or glorification of some of the most atrocious terrorist acts that we've seen in a generation,

00:51:04.880 that is where the criminal threshold is met, I believe, and where the police should have stepped in.

00:51:09.120 I mean, Suela, the police could quite, I think it's not a bad argument actually, to go, look,

00:51:15.760 there's literally thousands of people on this street, and we're having to police this, and there's

00:51:21.680 hundreds of them chanting whatever it is that they're chanting, an anti-Semitic chant. Do you

00:51:26.320 expect me to go and arrest all these hundreds of people? I can't do that. That is simply not practical.

00:51:31.760 And if you want me to do that, we need more police officers and we need more resources to make that happen.

00:51:36.720 Yeah, well, that is, and I would say to that, that is precisely what the police's job is,

00:51:42.160 to take on the mob, to take on the extremists. They are trained, and they are the professionals

00:51:52.160 designed and in place and paid to do that. And if it's about resource, we can fix that. And so I think

00:52:00.400 there's another problem here about police tactics. I think there has been a timidity on the part of the

00:52:06.240 police to take on the mob. You know, I think there's been a slight fear, a reticence, a reluctance

00:52:13.600 definitely to actually jump into the crowd. Yes, a calculation needs to be made. Is that going to

00:52:20.480 potentially cause a riot? But I do think that you need to equip the police with the right equipment,

00:52:27.440 the right tactics, the right resource. Many of these things they have within their possession,

00:52:32.640 and they are able to use these resources to enable better crowd control and to manage

00:52:42.080 hateful extremism on our streets. I think that we have to revisit police tactics of public protest

00:52:48.560 because something's not working. Do you think that failure to deal with the...

00:52:53.440 You know, look, we did a video. I went along to some of these protests recently. I didn't really

00:53:00.480 see anything. I mean, from the river to the sea is a debate we can have. But apart from that,

00:53:05.040 there was no hate. I'm sort of publicly from a Jewish background. Nobody was attacking me.

00:53:10.240 It didn't feel like I was in a hateful place on the recent ones. But we also have seen some terrible

00:53:16.160 things as part of these protests. Do you think the failure to stamp out that extremism right at the

00:53:21.920 beginning, the calls for jihad and all of that, and the police actually, as you say, making excuses,

00:53:27.120 encourage the extremists within those crowd to then come out week after week after week,

00:53:32.320 and they felt emboldened by that failure? Yes, I do. And I think, looking back,

00:53:38.560 a tougher approach should have been taken at the outset. When people were scaling scaffolding,

00:53:45.200 they were scaling war memorials. They were wearing masks. They were attacking other counter-protesters,

00:53:53.520 like Jewish people in the area. They were using flares and fireworks as weapons. There was violence, 0.99

00:54:02.000 and there was aggression. So I think that there's been... I think that reluctance has meant that this

00:54:07.920 has continued far longer than it would have. And there's been more people, and more intimidation,

00:54:14.160 and more anti-Semitism, which has effectively become normalised. And I think had a tougher

00:54:19.680 approach been taken, things might be different today. So for example, on Armistice Day, you know,

00:54:24.880 I believe that march should not have gone ahead on Armistice Day. There'd been many, many marches

00:54:30.800 in the run-up. There were going to be marches subsequently, I think on Armistice Day, a day of

00:54:37.120 deep reverence in Britain reflecting and remembering our war heroes. I think that march should not have

00:54:45.600 gone ahead. And I think there was a risk of violence. There was a risk of serious disruption.

00:54:52.800 I do think the police took the wrong decision on that. I do think there needs to be a change in the

00:54:58.240 law to allow a minister to make a decision like that when there is a disagreement. Because I do think that

00:55:04.560 that was the wrong thing to do. It provoked counter-protest. And there was ensuing disruption

00:55:12.560 on Whitehall. Let me ask you about that, because ultimately you're no longer Home Secretary, partly

00:55:18.720 because you made this very point. And you say it provoked counter-protest. You were accused of

00:55:23.840 provoking the counter-protest by making this point. People said the reason that these people came out,

00:55:28.880 most of them who I think were basically football hooligans who came out to protest against the

00:55:33.760 marches that they had seen previously, they were blamed on you. It was you that inflamed tensions.

00:55:39.280 It was you that incited them to come out. You were this heroine of these people. What do you make of

00:55:46.000 those accusations? Well, I mean, I think that's total nonsense because as Home Secretary, you know, I think

00:55:54.320 you've got a duty to speak up when there's an issue of particular salience relating to policing. And for

00:56:03.440 a Home Secretary to remain silent and not said anything, I think would have been unacceptable,

00:56:11.440 actually, during these marches. So as Home Secretary, I set out to support the police,

00:56:18.960 do everything within my power to make their lives easier and empower them and also speak up for the

00:56:27.520 British people as truthfully as I could. And I felt that there had been a failure overall in terms of

00:56:36.080 the approach that police had taken towards these marches, such that antisemitism has now reached

00:56:40.960 unprecedented levels. We have hundreds of thousands of people marching in a hateful way on a regular basis.

00:56:48.560 Now, I'm not saying that everybody on these marches is violent or a criminal. What I am saying is that

00:56:56.080 these marches have been, have cultivated this environment. And I think there are many people

00:57:04.640 who are involved in these marches, who attend these marches, who are causing a lot of the criminal

00:57:10.480 behaviour, the disruption, the antisemitism, the racism, the extremism. And I think that, you know,

00:57:16.640 we still see, we still see flags being waved, which are supportive of terrorist organisations.

00:57:24.480 We are seeing people glorify some of the events of October the 7th. I think that that is all horrific

00:57:32.240 and odious behaviour. And I do think that there needs to be a more robust approach taken by law enforcement

00:57:38.960 and ministers in terms of keeping, maintaining the peace and keeping public order within our country.

00:57:46.480 So, Ella, we're coming to the end of our interview. Thank you so much. Our final question is always

00:57:51.360 the same. What's the one thing that we should be talking about as a society that we're not?

00:57:55.680 Before Soella answers, make sure that once the interview is over, you head on over to our locals

00:58:01.600 page and the link is in the description to see this. The Labour Party is totally taken over

00:58:07.200 by extremists and Islamists. Do you want to be leader of the Conservative Party? Oh my goodness. 0.99

00:58:13.200 Don't give me a politician's answer, because we both know your party, to put it very bluntly, is screwed.

00:58:19.200 The one thing I think that we're not talking about, I think, is what is happening to the fabric of our

00:58:28.800 country. And I am very interested in demographic change caused by the pace of migration and the rapid

00:58:39.280 alteration of many towns and cities in our country. And why we need to start talking about why we are not

00:58:47.200 able to produce this cohesive society, which can unite behind a set of inspiring British values.

00:58:56.960 Why are we living in a country where there are ghettos? There are people who are not living and 1.00

00:59:05.200 subscribing to British values. Why do we have many people here who loathe our country and want to see

00:59:13.040 the destruction of Western civilisation? Why are the authorities appeasing this sentiment? Why are

00:59:19.840 they turning a blind eye to this kind of behaviour? And how do we empower our authorities, whether that's

00:59:26.160 the police, the universities, the councils, politicians, to be more courageous in standing up to extremism,

00:59:34.960 racism and division in our society?

00:59:36.800 What are British values?

00:59:38.480 British values, I believe, are respect, the rule of law, democratic, a democratic society, fairness.

00:59:47.760 I think those are our monarchy, believing in having a level of patriotism and sense of unity. We're a

00:59:59.120 country, we are a multi-ethnic, a multi-faith country, but we also do need to ensure that minority groups

01:00:07.360 subscribe to a unifying view of what it is to be British and what's made this country great in the

01:00:14.160 past. And I think we need to revisit that and check whether that's working and what can be done to

01:00:21.120 improve it. Suella, thanks for coming on. Follow us over to Locals where we are, Suella, a few of your questions.

01:00:28.560 Quite a lot of people who historically have voted Conservative are simply not going to vote because

01:00:35.760 what's the point? How are you going to get people to vote, let alone vote for you, but a vote?

TRIGGERnometry - February 28, 2024

Suella Braverman： “We Are Not in Control of Our Border”

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