TRIGGERnometry - The Dems Need a Civil War

00:00:00.800 We need to have a democratic civil war within the Democratic Party and not violently, not physically, politically and rhetorically.

00:00:07.540 It's not the voters' fault, you morons. You ran the election. It's your fault.

00:00:11.840 The term fascist is very, very loaded.

00:00:14.500 No, it's accurate.

00:00:15.920 Okay, why do you think he's a fascist?

00:00:18.300 Since he didn't relinquish power last time.

00:00:21.000 Well, ultimately he did, but...

00:00:22.800 Oh, come on, guys.

00:00:24.660 A guy who said, let's terminate the Constitution, consider martial law, and had a fake elector plot to steal an election.

00:00:30.320 Might he try to stay in power?

00:00:31.560 Of course! Of course he tried to do it once.

00:00:34.200 So you fear that at the end of this four-year period, he will not vacate the White House?

00:00:39.120 That is one of my concerns, absolutely, and that alone is a deal-breaker.

00:00:45.080 Cenk, welcome to Trigonometry.

00:00:47.020 Thank you, brother. Appreciate it.

00:00:48.300 No, thanks for being here. It's great to have you on, and especially at this moment.

00:00:51.500 There's a lot to talk about, obviously.

00:00:53.980 First of all, let's have your diagnosis. What happened?

00:00:57.200 Trump won. Democrats lost. I figured it out.

00:01:00.740 This is why we brought him on, by the way, this sophisticated analysis.

00:01:05.080 Okay, no, in all seriousness, I think what happened is relatively obvious, but it's not obvious to anyone on television.

00:01:11.860 It's not obvious to anyone in the Democratic Party.

00:01:14.000 The populists won, and the populists wins almost every time.

00:01:17.500 So, in my opinion, and anybody who's online knows that I don't have kind words for Donald Trump, right?

00:01:24.560 And so I think he's a fake populist.

00:01:26.340 But nevertheless, he at least had the smarts, and it bothers me to say that, but it's true, to at least pretend to be a populist,

00:01:35.020 because that is the correct strategy.

00:01:36.900 Whereas the Democrats are like, we will be establishment Democrats.

00:01:39.940 People love the establishment, and Kamala Harris got 90 corporate CEOs to sign a letter saying that they like her,

00:01:48.700 which also means that she will serve them.

00:01:50.420 And she went and told everybody on cable news, the corporate CEOs are on my side.

00:01:55.860 I'm like, what are you doing?

00:01:56.780 Are you trying to lose the election?

00:01:57.960 This is insanity.

00:01:59.140 And then she went and said, oh, my God, you'll never believe it.

00:02:01.980 Liz and Dick Cheney are on my side.

00:02:04.260 I'm like, are you trying to lose the election?

00:02:07.360 Because Dick Cheney, when he left office, had an approval rating of 13%.

00:02:10.680 Even if you're not anti-war, which almost the entire country is anti-war, 13% is not complicated.

00:02:17.740 But they have this great, brilliant strategy, which they always do, and I'll tell you why they do,

00:02:22.300 of, no, we're going to get the Republicans in the suburbs.

00:02:26.940 We don't need any progressive voters that hate war.

00:02:29.480 We don't need any populist voters that hate the corruption of the system.

00:02:34.260 No, we're going to be even more corrupt.

00:02:36.100 We're going to surround ourselves in elitism, and then because we're going to get the Republicans

00:02:40.980 in the suburbs.

00:02:41.640 I'm like, first of all, all the Republicans are in favor of Donald Trump.

00:02:44.780 I don't know when you're going to get this through your thick, thick, idiotic establishment

00:02:49.340 head, okay?

00:02:50.960 Hillary Clinton only got 7% of the vote after they demonized Donald Trump 1,000%.

00:02:55.200 And then I think they were right to demonize Donald Trump in 2020, but Biden got less.

00:03:00.100 He only got 6% of the Republican vote.

00:03:01.700 I'm like, there's no Republican votes to get, you idiots.

00:03:05.360 And this time around, Kamala Harris, with this brilliant strategy of the Cheney's, got 5%

00:03:09.940 of the Republican vote, even less.

00:03:11.980 It was an utter failure.

00:03:14.360 So the thing is, guys, I don't think there's really any dispute about what happened because,

00:03:19.080 look, they have their own crazy, lunatic ideas about, oh, it's Latino men's fault.

00:03:24.600 They're all sexist.

00:03:25.880 It's the white women's fault.

00:03:27.560 It's Christian's fault.

00:03:28.640 It's this fault.

00:03:29.340 It's that fault.

00:03:30.360 It's not the voters' fault, you morons.

00:03:32.080 You ran the election.

00:03:32.920 It's your fault.

00:03:34.260 Take some personal responsibility.

00:03:36.760 But the reason that I know I'm right, empirically, is when she started her campaign, she actually

00:03:42.020 started out very populist, if you remember.

00:03:44.120 I'm going to prevent price gouging.

00:03:46.260 Now, a lot of people don't like that.

00:03:47.420 They're like, what do you mean?

00:03:48.560 Are you going to set prices?

00:03:50.740 And Trump fell into that trap immediately.

00:03:53.560 It was a perfect trap.

00:03:54.540 I don't know who came up with it, but that's the guy who should run the next campaign.

00:03:58.100 And all the Republicans were like, don't.

00:04:00.140 We're going to protect the companies from you.

00:04:02.660 Oh, that's a disastrous thing to do for the Republicans, right?

00:04:06.040 So she starts going up.

00:04:07.360 And she says, I want to protect housing prices.

00:04:10.240 Perfect.

00:04:11.140 Excellent.

00:04:11.960 And I'm going to protect them.

00:04:13.000 She mentioned this a little bit, not really too much.

00:04:15.420 Like, private equity is actually buying up all the houses and driving up the prices.

00:04:18.920 But they're the donors to both the Republicans and Democrats and to Donald Trump, right?

00:04:22.880 So nobody ever talks about it.

00:04:24.800 So she was, and then she picks Tim Walz, the most populous of all the Democratic candidates.

00:04:28.960 It's perfect.

00:04:30.140 And Biden was down by eight.

00:04:31.600 She goes up by seven, naturally.

00:04:33.560 She's got to, I literally said on the Young Turks, we should have the election today.

00:04:37.100 If we had the election today, we'd win.

00:04:39.060 But I don't know what she's going to do the rest of the time.

00:04:41.540 She might blow it.

00:04:42.480 And that's exactly when she turns around and blows it by being corporate elitist establishment.

00:04:47.420 So the way that you think the Democrats could have succeeded in this election is by having who and doing what?

00:04:59.020 So first of all, 14 months ago, I started a petition on the Young Turks.

00:05:03.020 And the Young Turks audience should get a lot of credit because, you know, some people were like, well, I'll tell you what the petition is and I'll tell you the reaction.

00:05:10.260 Petition was, please drop out.

00:05:12.160 Mr. President, you're done.

00:05:15.840 I'm sorry.

00:05:16.740 We're trying to be as polite as possible, but you can't go on.

00:05:20.000 This is crazy.

00:05:22.060 Because, and the clips online, September of 2023, because it was already patently obvious.

00:05:28.100 Why was it obvious?

00:05:29.240 He would make a speech and then he would wander off and go shake someone's hand that wasn't there.

00:05:34.200 I'm like, when you're shaking an invisible man's hand, it's over.

00:05:38.800 O-V-A-H, as Spike Lee would say.

00:05:41.940 O-V-A, okay?

00:05:43.540 And so it would pile on and pile on.

00:05:45.520 By the end, he was talking about how his uncle was eaten by cannibals.

00:05:50.440 And mainstream media, that's literal, by the way.

00:05:52.360 He literally said that.

00:05:53.640 And mainstream media is like, no, he's young and dynamic.

00:05:55.540 We don't see the problem at all.

00:05:56.740 If Donald Trump said his uncle was eaten by cannibals, they would have torn him to pieces.

00:06:02.080 And all they did was a protection racket for Joe Biden.

00:06:05.260 And so our audience, some of them, by the way, their reaction was, no, you're going to help Trump win.

00:06:10.540 No, we have to just please Joe Biden and the Democratic Party.

00:06:15.980 And if you're nice enough to him and if you say enough pleasant things, then you do enough propaganda, then we'll win.

00:06:21.660 Oh, my God, you're not doing propaganda for the Democrats.

00:06:24.080 No, no, we're going to lose.

00:06:25.300 So some people left.

00:06:26.460 And it hurt us.

00:06:27.200 I knew it would.

00:06:27.900 And we lost some paying subscribers.

00:06:29.560 We lost revenue, et cetera.

00:06:31.080 But the people who said we're like, hell, yeah, we do accountability.

00:06:35.360 We pay you as our as your subscribers to be honest with us, not to sugarcoat things, not to give us BS.

00:06:42.360 Right.

00:06:43.100 And you're right.

00:06:44.140 We got to get a better candidate.

00:06:45.520 Remember, we really want to beat Trump.

00:06:47.120 So if we really, really, really want to beat Trump, you're not going to beat him with Joe Biden.

00:06:50.560 And now they admit afterwards the, you know, the Pod Save America guys are pretending that they knew all along when they were cheerleading Joe Biden the entire time.

00:06:58.580 And by the way, all those shows said Cenk is being terrible, disgraceful.

00:07:03.100 He's trying to help Trump, et cetera.

00:07:04.480 We should stick with this crappiest candidate we have.

00:07:07.580 Now they turn around after the election and go, oh, his staff says he would have lost.

00:07:13.720 Trump would have gotten 400 electoral college points like they knew they were going to get slaughtered.

00:07:21.220 Exactly what I said 14 months ago.

00:07:23.820 Then I ran against him in a primary because I was so desperate.

00:07:26.540 I'm like, isn't anybody going to enter this race?

00:07:30.320 I mean, I hate Gavin Newsom, but at least he could put together a sentence.

00:07:34.960 I'm not even looking for progressive anymore.

00:07:37.360 I'm just looking for a person whose brain is not going to fall out.

00:07:42.240 And then, but I couldn't get him to, I'm like, if I do well or Dean Phillips does well, maybe it'll animate Gretchen Whitmer or Tim Walz or Shapiro to come in.

00:07:50.780 I was a big believer in Shapiro.

00:07:51.960 I thought Shapiro could have won, but if I had my druthers, so put all that aside.

00:07:57.500 That's what happened, and that was the dynamic of it.

00:07:59.840 We can get back into more of the details.

00:08:02.200 But if you said to me, out of the people that exist now who would run it, my first choice would be Jon Stewart.

00:08:09.580 Give me Jon Stewart in a Democratic primary, and I will rout anyone against us in that primary and in the general election, and we'll win easily.

00:08:18.800 It'll be a landslide.

00:08:20.140 If I can't have someone like Jon Stewart, and I have to go with someone, a politics adjacent, then I would pick either Sean Fine or Sean O'Brien, the head of the Teamsters Union.

00:08:33.640 Sean O'Brien spoke at the Republican Convention.

00:08:35.240 What am I picking him for, for a Democratic primary?

00:08:37.400 Because I'm a populist, and Sean O'Brien is a populist.

00:08:40.540 And he gave the best speech out of all the speeches of the RNC or DNC, if you go back and watch that, and he told rich people to their face, the donors in the Republican Party, I'm coming for you.

00:08:50.860 That's the guy I like, okay?

00:08:52.560 If I can't have one of those guys, and you make me pick a politician, and then this is where I'm going to lose a lot of Republicans.

00:08:58.640 They say, no way, man.

00:08:59.780 And they have all this propaganda that they did against them.

00:09:02.300 But actually, the most populist of our politicians is Tim Walz.

00:09:05.400 So he paid family leave, get moms 12 weeks off, because they deserve it after they have a baby, right?

00:09:12.840 Having them go back to the assembly lines is monstrous.

00:09:15.620 These are super popular economic positions, and he got them passed.

00:09:19.300 And he speaks like a normal human being and not a corporate robot.

00:09:22.660 So you've got problems with where he was in China, blah, blah, blah.

00:09:25.600 We ran a campaign.

00:09:26.620 People do this propaganda, right?

00:09:28.300 But overall, I'll take Tim Walz over any of the other corporate robots.

00:09:31.520 I guess the reason I'm asking you who and how is that I think the big discussion is, is it a personnel issue or is it a structural issue?

00:09:41.860 Oh, it's definitely structural.

00:09:42.760 And that's what I'm getting at, because I don't think we're changing the captain of the Titanic avoids if two minutes before the iceberg hits is really going to change anything.

00:09:53.300 And it felt to me, if you're talking about the importance of a populist approach, the problem with the Democrat Party is it's not a party that's on the side of the ordinary person.

00:10:03.440 So it's definitely a structural problem.

00:10:05.640 And so that's why, look, Young Turks is the longest running show in Internet history.

00:10:12.480 We're the first partner for YouTube.

00:10:14.180 So that makes me the original YouTuber.

00:10:18.000 So that's kind of fun, right?

00:10:19.760 And so I want to see how long we can keep it going.

00:10:23.120 But we started basically at the beginning of online video.

00:10:25.600 And here we are, right?

00:10:26.760 And we got there by telling the truth and being honest and being populist and not serving the rich but serving the average person, right?

00:10:35.220 And so when you look at the Democratic Party, we have tried so many different things throughout the years.

00:10:41.880 When I say we, me and the Young Turks host an audience, okay?

00:10:46.540 We did petitions.

00:10:47.720 We did campaigns.

00:10:49.300 Bernie Sanders came on the show in 2016, got 6 million views.

00:10:52.540 Well, no one was noticing.

00:10:53.880 Bigger than any TV interview he ever did.

00:10:56.600 And the next time he came on in the middle of Labor Day, nobody was watching anything, et cetera, 4 million views.

00:11:02.720 Okay?

00:11:03.260 Then I started Justice Democrats.

00:11:05.300 That's AOC and the squad, et cetera.

00:11:07.660 We can have an ideological conversation about whether that's the right way to go or not.

00:11:12.300 And half of it is and half of it went wrong.

00:11:14.140 I could tell you about that.

00:11:15.680 But our audience raised $2.5 million for them.

00:11:18.420 And then we pull off a couple of miracles.

00:11:20.500 So we're constantly trying things, right?

00:11:23.100 Now we have a populist plank on our website, tyt.com.

00:11:26.760 I hope people go sign it.

00:11:28.180 I'm saying right-wing populists, left-wing populists.

00:11:30.200 Here's six super popular things.

00:11:32.080 Anti-war, money out of politics, et cetera.

00:11:33.920 Let's go pass them together and let's demand our politicians do it no matter which side they're on.

00:11:38.980 So in the midst of all this, we have tried to convince the Democrats a thousand times over.

00:11:44.180 We're like, look, you lost.

00:11:46.200 You said Donald Trump was a maniacal clown.

00:11:49.080 And I agree.

00:11:49.900 We can get into that debate.

00:11:51.880 And then you lost to him.

00:11:53.480 So what does that make you?

00:11:55.560 I mean, it's just simple logic, right?

00:11:57.600 And it's indisputable.

00:11:58.720 So Hillary Clinton and the entire establishment of the Democratic Party said that they were geniuses and it was going to be a cakewalk.

00:12:07.340 And she had a 98% chance of winning.

00:12:09.140 I'm sitting there screaming on the Young Turks, no, she doesn't.

00:12:12.040 No, she doesn't.

00:12:13.100 She's going to lose.

00:12:14.580 And so I went on ABCs this week after the convention where Hillary Clinton had a 10-point lead at that point.

00:12:20.100 They asked us to predict who's going to win.

00:12:21.920 Everybody on the panel, of course, says Hillary Clinton by a landslide.

00:12:24.540 I say Donald Trump's going to win.

00:12:26.100 They literally laugh out loud.

00:12:27.300 And I said the same thing I'm telling you guys today.

00:12:30.420 Country's in a populist mood.

00:12:32.080 They're running the most establishment candidate I've ever seen.

00:12:34.480 It's a massive mistake.

00:12:36.180 So after she loses, they go, oh, we're going to learn our lessons.

00:12:38.360 And their lessons were blame the voters, blame progressives.

00:12:40.680 It was Bernie's fault.

00:12:41.600 It was Russia's fault.

00:12:42.540 It was the weather's fault.

00:12:43.400 It was my dog's fault.

00:12:44.840 The dog ate my vote, right?

00:12:46.800 And so they learned no lesson because, guys, and this is the critical thing.

00:12:50.800 They're never going to learn a lesson because they are hooked on the donor money.

00:12:56.160 The entire structure, and this is, and I don't want people to get it wrong.

00:13:00.200 This is not just the Democratic Party.

00:13:01.640 This is almost the entirety of the Democratic and Republican parties.

00:13:05.700 That's why people call it the unit party.

00:13:07.620 They are all hooked on donor cash.

00:13:09.740 They all serve the donors.

00:13:11.640 It is absolutely indisputable.

00:13:13.480 And they can never get off that crack.

00:13:15.500 You must defeat them.

00:13:17.020 And to be fair to Trump, as Trump did, Trump defeated them.

00:13:20.320 He didn't negotiate with them.

00:13:21.820 He didn't appease them.

00:13:22.880 He didn't debate them.

00:13:24.380 He just defeated them.

00:13:25.580 So as much as I have gigantic problems with Trump, I respect that.

00:13:30.460 And the other thing I respect that Trump does is when he breaks people.

00:13:34.280 And then so on my side, we got the civility police.

00:13:37.000 So like, oh, breaking people.

00:13:38.640 Oh, my God, that's so wrong.

00:13:40.300 How could you?

00:13:41.060 Right.

00:13:41.540 I ran for Congress in 22, and again, because I was so frustrated.

00:13:45.180 Like, because we sent the Justice Democrats in, AOC, Rashida Tlaib, et cetera, and they

00:13:50.940 were supposed to, they had a mission.

00:13:53.220 I guess maybe they didn't know the mission, or they didn't understand the mission, or they

00:13:56.920 decided to jettison the mission.

00:13:58.440 The mission was challenge the establishment.

00:14:02.480 Don't be the establishment.

00:14:04.480 Don't negotiate with the establishment.

00:14:06.600 Fight the establishment.

00:14:08.240 And unfortunately, they barely did that, right?

00:14:10.280 So that's my great frustration.

00:14:11.980 So I was like, okay, then Nina Turner.

00:14:13.920 And then she couldn't win.

00:14:15.900 So I'm like, all right, I'll try it.

00:14:18.100 Oh, God.

00:14:18.620 I don't want to be a politician, right?

00:14:20.300 But I tried it.

00:14:21.280 And when I did, the LA Times has an endorsement meeting, right?

00:14:24.860 So I go, and we talk for, it's supposed to be 30 minutes.

00:14:28.260 We went nearly an hour, okay?

00:14:30.300 Because we couldn't stop talking about the issues.

00:14:32.100 As you could tell, I'm animated.

00:14:33.640 I studied this stuff inside and out.

00:14:36.300 We have a fantastic conversation.

00:14:39.040 And I come out, and my campaign manager says, how'd it go?

00:14:42.540 What do you think?

00:14:42.940 I said, look, I went in thinking there was a 0% chance, because the mainstream media is

00:14:46.740 never going to endorse a populist candidate, right?

00:14:48.800 I come out thinking, 12% chance, because it couldn't have gotten any better.

00:14:53.660 And I said to them as I was leaving, the corporate Democrat in the race is Christy Smith.

00:14:57.760 I said, please ask Christy the same questions.

00:14:59.800 If you ask her the same questions, and she has better answers than me, then endorse her,

00:15:04.380 okay?

00:15:05.020 So what happened instead?

00:15:06.660 They talked to her for 15 minutes over the phone.

00:15:08.880 She didn't answer any policy questions.

00:15:10.420 She said that she was for the firefighters and the teachers.

00:15:15.500 Whoa, how bold.

00:15:17.420 You're for the firefighters and the teachers.

00:15:19.800 What a policy position.

00:15:21.220 Are you also for little puppies and kittens?

00:15:23.420 So, of course, they endorsed her.

00:15:25.660 And so when they did, but here's the interesting part.

00:15:27.520 When they got to me, they said, while we agree with Uyghur's stance on money and politics and other

00:15:35.420 issues, we find him too pugilistic, and we prefer civility and guidance.

00:15:41.600 That is saying, we don't want you to fight for your voters.

00:15:46.620 We want you to be civil.

00:15:48.080 Why?

00:15:49.060 Because civility protects the status quo.

00:15:51.260 And if you're already at the top, you don't want any of the status quo changed.

00:15:56.800 You hate the populace more than life itself.

00:16:00.020 That's part of why they hate.

00:16:01.920 That's not part of why they hate Bernie.

00:16:03.420 It's all of why they hate Bernie, and it's half of why they hate Trump.

00:16:07.180 So that's why you can't talk them into it.

00:16:10.260 On our side, we finally have to gather up the courage to say, no, the Democratic leaders that

00:16:16.700 Morning Joe and The View want you to worship are morons.

00:16:20.640 They're corrupt.

00:16:21.940 They never win.

00:16:23.580 Even Biden only won by 43,000 votes in the swing states.

00:16:28.380 Only 43,000 votes.

00:16:29.960 And the whole time you're telling us that Trump is a civility clown, and you lost to him twice

00:16:35.080 and almost three times.

00:16:36.800 What does that make you?

00:16:38.660 The only reason they exist is that they're propped up by mainstream media, which is nothing

00:16:43.180 but a giant propaganda machine.

00:16:45.560 So you give me one populace, and I will rip through the Democratic Party.

00:16:49.260 I will not be civil.

00:16:50.840 Our side should not be civil.

00:16:52.640 We've been civil to these idiot, corrupt forces for way too long.

00:16:57.200 Let's go beat them.

00:16:58.640 And then we could have a candidate that can kick a Republican's ass.

00:17:03.100 There's an interesting point you made about the civility issue that I'd like to push back

00:17:07.020 on, Cenk, because I don't think a lot of Democrats are civil.

00:17:11.020 I don't think Joe Biden calling Republican voters garbage is civil.

00:17:17.220 I don't think Kamala Harris calling Trump a fascist is civil.

00:17:23.540 And to me, that's not even politics.

00:17:27.920 That's just name calling.

00:17:29.200 Those are the things that you do when you don't actually have any ideas, and you've lost

00:17:33.460 the argument.

00:17:34.460 Yeah, I totally disagree with you.

00:17:36.560 So look, guys, both sides are in their bubble.

00:17:40.880 So part of the reason people like our show and in TYT Network overall is that we try really

00:17:46.020 hard not to be in a bubble.

00:17:47.320 So I've gotten into a fight with leftists.

00:17:49.440 And in fact, there's one raging right now, OK, because that last Trump ad that they put

00:17:54.480 40 million into about the trans detainees getting gender reassignment surgery for free.

00:17:59.460 I'm like, you guys know that that hurt us.

00:18:01.880 It's not the number one issue, as we just talked about.

00:18:04.160 The number one issue is corporate donors, elitism, et cetera.

00:18:06.580 But it hurt us.

00:18:07.620 And they pulled through the roof for them.

00:18:09.180 That's why they spent 40 million.

00:18:10.900 And there are other Young Terse hosts, and I love them.

00:18:12.800 And it's OK to have disagreement in conversation.

00:18:15.340 They're like, no, we don't see it.

00:18:16.600 No, it didn't hurt Kamala Harris.

00:18:18.480 I'm like, they spent $40 million on it.

00:18:21.280 Their polling was unspectacular on that ad.

00:18:24.060 You think it didn't cost us?

00:18:26.160 I mean, that's just delusional.

00:18:28.380 And so everybody's in their bubbles.

00:18:30.140 In the Republican bubble, or in the Trump MAGA bubble, you guys think that the Democrats

00:18:34.680 are vicious.

00:18:35.940 I mean, in a sense, they are.

00:18:37.200 They are to Bernie Sanders.

00:18:38.500 They are to their own base.

00:18:40.200 They are to people like me who run against them.

00:18:43.280 New York Times, when I ran, said I was anti-Muslim.

00:18:45.560 I'm Muslim.

00:18:46.100 Never clarified it, OK?

00:18:47.760 And based on a joke, et cetera.

00:18:50.000 I mean, they were vicious.

00:18:50.780 But that is vicious.

00:18:52.620 Because what they're saying is that you're a bigot.

00:18:54.980 Yeah.

00:18:55.140 And you're a racist, that is a smear on your character, which is completely baseless.

00:19:01.500 That's reputation destruction, Cenk.

00:19:03.420 Let's be honest about that.

00:19:04.220 No, I know.

00:19:04.800 I explain this on the show all the time.

00:19:06.360 In the old days, the system would do literal assassinations, right?

00:19:09.600 You'd cause too much trouble.

00:19:10.860 Fred Hampton, Martin Luther King, maybe the Kennedys, et cetera.

00:19:13.460 And they're going to do a literal assassination.

00:19:15.360 These days, they don't need to.

00:19:16.620 They came up with a much better idea.

00:19:18.340 Character assassination, OK?

00:19:20.420 When you assassinate someone literally, it makes them a martyr.

00:19:26.040 It makes their cause stronger, not weaker.

00:19:28.260 When you assassinate their character, it drags down their cause with them.

00:19:33.120 So character assassination keeps your hands clean and does bigger damage to the cause.

00:19:38.100 So the machine turned and does character assassinations.

00:19:41.220 So in that way, I agree with you, brother.

00:19:42.760 It is vicious in that way.

00:19:43.900 And if you read that New York Times article, they imply that bestiality is part of my legislative agenda.

00:19:48.940 What?

00:19:50.220 Insanity.

00:19:50.860 I mean, the degree to which they lied about me was unreal to the point where there was a section

00:19:55.000 when they said that I brought on David Duke, the Grand Wizard of the KKK, and I agreed with him that he wasn't racist.

00:20:02.560 If you watch the interview, I call him a racist, an anti-Semite, a bigot, an idiot, et cetera, right?

00:20:07.340 You see, I'm not shy, right?

00:20:08.760 But aren't you just making Francis' point for him?

00:20:10.940 I am.

00:20:11.340 I'm saying this is the part that I agree with.

00:20:13.020 Okay.

00:20:13.340 Right?

00:20:13.900 But the part I don't agree with is when it comes to Republicans, historically, they have

00:20:17.740 been pudding soft.

00:20:19.260 Why?

00:20:19.900 Because they secretly agree with them.

00:20:21.740 Mitch McConnell and Joe Biden has made every dirty deal in this country for the last 40 years.

00:20:26.140 He loves Mitch McConnell more than he loves any Democrat.

00:20:28.460 Okay?

00:20:28.860 So they're used to and culturally gotten used to civility, civility, status quo, status quo

00:20:33.620 is great.

00:20:34.260 Keep the powerful what it is, et cetera.

00:20:36.500 They began to change with Trump.

00:20:38.580 One, they did the character assassination.

00:20:40.240 That's fair.

00:20:40.820 Okay?

00:20:41.020 But the problem is that Trump makes it so easy for them, right?

00:20:45.740 The garbage comment is mainly him being senile.

00:20:48.420 Like, so I call him out when he does dumb things.

00:20:50.380 But that one was just, he's like, Puerto Rico, garbage, right?

00:20:54.440 Like, that's why his brain's falling out.

00:20:56.380 You can't, so that's not, and guys though, now let me bring it back to you.

00:21:00.900 You, the Republican side, cannot possibly.

00:21:03.240 Wait, wait, you can't, it's not you.

00:21:05.460 Sorry, sorry.

00:21:06.180 So just to get this clear for anyone who's watching who's not familiar with our show,

00:21:10.120 we are neither MAGA nor left.

00:21:13.320 We are disaffected people who were on the left in the UK.

00:21:16.720 In this election, given the choice available, I think we probably would have voted for Trump

00:21:21.440 if we were American citizens, which we are not, right?

00:21:23.880 But really, we're interested in people from both sides and exploring their perspectives.

00:21:28.300 Okay.

00:21:28.720 So this isn't a Republican's arguing with a Democrat conversation.

00:21:31.720 No, no, I'm totally with you.

00:21:32.980 And that's great.

00:21:34.220 So when I say you in this case, I mean, let's say Trump supporters.

00:21:37.280 Yeah.

00:21:37.400 Okay.

00:21:38.160 So they say, oh, can you believe the Democrats are being on civil those?

00:21:41.740 Oh, come on, guys.

00:21:42.880 Trump has said every terrible thing in the world.

00:21:44.820 I mean, Trump has called Kamala Harris fascist, all Democrats fascist, and socialist, and Marxist,

00:21:50.840 and communist, and comrade, and scum, and poisoning the blood of our country, and every terrible thing in the world.

00:21:57.800 And like I told you, I don't mind that much, right?

00:22:00.760 Especially when he breaks Republicans on his own side to get things done, right?

00:22:04.760 So I'm not that guy.

00:22:06.440 But don't, if you're a Trump supporter, you are not allowed to catch feelings about bad words.

00:22:11.880 Like, because that hypocrisy breaks all hypocrisy records.

00:22:15.300 And if you can't see that, you're in a bubble.

00:22:17.060 If you think Donald Trump's a fluffy, nice guy who deserves civility, you're not on this planet.

00:22:23.380 I think, look, I think what you're saying is in part true, but I also think your criticisms of somebody have to be accurate.

00:22:30.680 The term fascist is very, very loaded.

00:22:33.480 No, it's accurate.

00:22:34.420 And, okay, why do you think he's a fascist?

00:22:37.000 So what's your definition of fascism?

00:22:38.960 Let's do that first.

00:22:39.840 So, look, guys, all of these words suck, and they get loaded up with what people, their own beliefs and what they mean, right?

00:22:48.060 And they've lost all meaning.

00:22:49.480 So communism has a meaning.

00:22:51.320 Communism is no private property, state runs everything, central planning, et cetera.

00:22:55.560 Capitalism has a meaning, free markets, et cetera, right?

00:22:58.800 Socialism and fascism have almost no meaning.

00:23:01.300 Socialism ranges from the Swedish system, which is perfectly lovely, creates IKEA and Swedish meatballs and takes care of its own citizens, and the people are very happy.

00:23:11.020 Two, sometimes North Korea is called socialist.

00:23:14.660 Well, North Korea and Norway couldn't be more different.

00:23:18.080 They can't both be socialist.

00:23:20.140 So that one gets loaded up with if you're on the right, you're just saying everything evil is socialist.

00:23:24.860 It's nonsense, right?

00:23:25.940 So, okay, finally we get to, and by the way, the most important word is the one that almost never gets used, which is corporates, corporatists.

00:23:33.300 So the great majority of the American political system is corporatists, and they serve corporate donors.

00:23:39.200 And by the way, that is not capitalism.

00:23:41.200 It destroys free markets.

00:23:42.800 Agreed.

00:23:43.140 So now, when you get to fascists, why do I call Trump that?

00:23:47.040 Because, not because, oh, I don't like him and he's mean.

00:23:51.520 When he lost the election, and he most definitely lost the election, he then decided, I don't give a damn.

00:23:59.140 I don't care about democracy.

00:24:00.600 I don't care about the Constitution.

00:24:01.940 I care about me, me, me, me, me.

00:24:04.200 So he'd been saying all along, oh, I love these dictators, Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-un, you know, Vladimir Putin's not technically a dictator, but close enough, Viktor Orban, et cetera.

00:24:13.500 And so, oh, I love these strong men, oh, when they get into the room, everybody has to applaud, everyone has to agree, oh, I love it.

00:24:20.300 I'm like, no, yeah, everyone has to applaud, because they're dictators, and they'll be murdered if they don't applaud.

00:24:24.660 What part of that is unclear to you, brother, right?

00:24:27.140 So you say, okay, well, that's dangerous tendencies, but he didn't do it, right?

00:24:30.820 But after he lost, he did do it.

00:24:33.220 So he did a fake elector plot.

00:24:34.900 Again, this is not talked about enough.

00:24:36.860 January 6th, when those guys bum-rushed the Capitol, I'm going to blow your mind here and say something from the left that nobody ever says.

00:24:43.660 You know how on the left they say when, you know, black folks, you know, protest, but then a riot breaks out, you know, 2020, George Floyd, all that stuff.

00:24:51.480 They say that's the voice of the unheard, right?

00:24:54.360 And Martin Luther King said that.

00:24:55.660 It's a powerful quote.

00:24:56.600 And there's a lot of truth to that, because they're tired of getting their asses handed to them by the cops.

00:25:01.820 They're tired of getting shot, et cetera.

00:25:03.640 But January 6th was also a bit of the voice of the unheard, because those were right-wingers.

00:25:10.340 Yeah, they got riled up by Trump, and they thought that democracy was stolen when it wasn't.

00:25:14.680 One, I tell the left, what would you do if you thought democracy was stolen?

00:25:17.880 What if Trump actually did the fake elector plot and succeeded, right?

00:25:22.620 And took, what would we do?

00:25:24.100 Would we just go, oh, let's be civil.

00:25:25.860 Oh, he stole the government.

00:25:28.720 He stole the country.

00:25:29.440 He stole democracy.

00:25:30.420 He tore up the Constitution.

00:25:31.500 Let's be civil, right?

00:25:32.420 So for those right-wingers, mainstream media and the power establishment had not been hearing them for decades.

00:25:39.620 So they were so mad.

00:25:42.380 And that riot was the voice of the unheard.

00:25:44.740 Now, that doesn't make it right.

00:25:46.080 They should be arrested for trespassing, et cetera, all the terrible things they did.

00:25:50.140 And so, but notice, none of the organizers were arrested.

00:25:55.040 I don't mean the Proud Boys and the three percenters, et cetera.

00:25:58.000 No, Eastman, the lawyer for Donald Trump, Navarro wrote a whole book about it, Bannon, Trump, et cetera.

00:26:05.600 They're largely left alone, but the common man immediately thrown in jail because the elites are untouchable.

00:26:10.920 So you do a fake elector plot to destroy democracy because you lost an election.

00:26:16.080 And then he said, this is, again, the most under-quoted, most important quote of Donald Trump.

00:26:22.000 Afterwards, he said, we should terminate the Constitution.

00:26:25.040 All rules, regulations, and articles in the Constitution, he wrote it on True Social, not out of context.

00:26:31.440 You can go look it up yourself.

00:26:33.240 Somebody who says terminate the Constitution, I'm done with them.

00:26:35.860 If that's not a fascist, I don't know what fascist means.

00:26:39.820 So just to reinforce what I said earlier about us not being party political,

00:26:46.040 we were very critical of the riots that happened in 2020, both in this country and in our house.

00:26:52.240 We were also very critical of what happened on January the 6th, right?

00:26:56.000 So nobody's here in this conversation is pro either of those things.

00:27:00.960 You can argue about whether it's the voice of the unheard or the fact that in large groups,

00:27:05.180 there's always going to be someone who likes rioting and likes burning things.

00:27:08.000 That's also true, yeah.

00:27:09.320 And I think that's a fair point.

00:27:10.500 However, even if we were to accept what you say, there's a lot to discuss there,

00:27:18.820 and I can't be bothered to relitigate to the 2020 election other than to say both parties refused to accept the results of the election.

00:27:27.660 I think that was a bad thing for both of them to have done.

00:27:30.120 However, in this election, Francis and I went along to the Trump rally in Madison Square Garden to see it as journalists coming over from the UK.

00:27:42.640 We were told that it's a Nazi rally and that Donald Trump is Hitler, right?

00:27:48.180 So let's understand what that means.

00:27:50.640 Adolf Hitler launched a series of genocidal wars and caused the deaths of over 50 million people,

00:27:58.540 including the deliberate extermination of millions of people in concentration camps.

00:28:04.600 And that, the Nazi party, was his vehicle for doing that.

00:28:10.520 I did not see that when I went to Madison Square Garden, but that is what was said about him.

00:28:16.360 So when we talk about civility, I don't really see that as civility, to make that level of ridiculous allegation.

00:28:23.520 Yeah, so look, sometimes people say the distinctions that I make is splitting hairs,

00:28:27.980 but I don't think so.

00:28:28.780 I think words matter.

00:28:29.640 So I've never called him a Nazi and I've never called him Hitler.

00:28:31.880 I'm not having to go at you.

00:28:32.860 I'm challenging the idea that then being civil.

00:28:35.800 So, but let me get to that.

00:28:38.340 Okay.

00:28:38.520 So, and in fact, a Democratic congressman was on our show on election night and called him Hitler.

00:28:44.980 And I said, don't do that.

00:28:46.000 That's not right.

00:28:46.800 Okay.

00:28:47.620 So now, Madison Square Garden rally.

00:28:50.420 You could say, hey, that's not right to call him a Hitler Nazi.

00:28:52.700 I agree with you.

00:28:53.360 Okay.

00:28:53.700 Yeah.

00:28:53.880 On the other hand, you look at the speeches and it's horrific.

00:28:57.620 So, okay, you got the comic.

00:28:59.540 First of all, I wouldn't bring up a roast comic and not have him roast MAGA, by the way,

00:29:03.600 and not have him roast Trump and not have him roast white people,

00:29:06.040 but roast all the different groups that the crowd might or might not hate.

00:29:10.380 Now, as it turned out, the crowd did not like it.

00:29:12.800 They groaned.

00:29:13.480 Again, we pointed out on the Young Turks is super important.

00:29:16.080 If the crowd loved it, that's a different thing because the comic's not important.

00:29:20.060 The crowd's important, right?

00:29:21.320 And Trump's important.

00:29:22.260 But Trump's teams thought that that guy was a brilliant idea to put up and they knew his

00:29:26.240 script ahead of time.

00:29:27.220 So that's a terrible mistake.

00:29:28.860 That's saying, I'm okay with it, right?

00:29:30.380 It was a bad booking.

00:29:31.240 Yeah.

00:29:31.540 Okay.

00:29:31.820 But that's not all.

00:29:33.140 If that was all, I'd say, hey, come on, guys.

00:29:35.060 One comic, right?

00:29:36.320 But Rudy Giuliani gets up and gives a speech about how two-year-old Palestinians are terrorists

00:29:40.700 and that we need to kill them and et cetera, et cetera.

00:29:44.280 Rudy's speech was 10,000 times worse than the comics and nobody even cared.

00:29:48.540 I did go to the toilet halfway through.

00:29:50.280 But I don't remember saying that.

00:29:52.420 You can find it.

00:29:52.780 It's no problem.

00:29:53.360 You can find the video.

00:29:54.260 Iran is not there for us.

00:29:55.820 They want to kill us.

00:29:57.300 And the Palestinians are taught to kill us at two years old.

00:30:03.000 So he started going, oh, they start learning in two years old.

00:30:05.680 They start two years.

00:30:06.440 He said two years old twice.

00:30:08.200 It's justifying the murder of children.

00:30:10.360 Okay.

00:30:10.720 And then he commanded the audience, you are pro-Israel.

00:30:13.960 Well, first of all, you don't speak for them, brother.

00:30:15.460 Then he just over and over again, and I've lived this my whole life, and it gets back

00:30:21.360 to Trump too.

00:30:22.740 Everyone, oh, well, I don't know.

00:30:24.300 You can't say that about Puerto Ricans.

00:30:25.580 You can't say that about black people, Jewish people, white women, whatever it is.

00:30:29.160 Okay.

00:30:29.760 You get to Muslims, you say any goddamn thing you like.

00:30:31.980 Okay.

00:30:32.420 And I'm tired of it.

00:30:33.560 And Trump, by the way, another reason to call him a fascist in 2016, and people will

00:30:37.760 make excuses for this, but there is no excuse.

00:30:39.720 He said, I want a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the country.

00:30:44.700 That is by definition racist, or bigoted, take your word, and it is by definition fascist.

00:30:50.900 Here's a group of people that I despise.

00:30:52.740 I don't want to know the content of their character.

00:30:54.800 I don't want to know what their individuality is.

00:30:57.620 I don't care if they were an interpreter that risked their life to save our soldiers.

00:31:02.120 I don't care.

00:31:03.160 They're Muslim.

00:31:03.800 They're evil.

00:31:04.500 I hate them.

00:31:05.420 We should ban them entirely.

00:31:06.620 I know the ban then was challenged in the courts and became something else, but you

00:31:11.360 cannot argue he didn't say it in 2016.

00:31:13.320 He did.

00:31:14.200 And MAGA, they say, hey, why don't you guys come over and agree with us?

00:31:17.700 Well, if you say that I should be banned, how do you expect me to agree with you?

00:31:22.800 Is that a reasonable ask?

00:31:24.160 Well, I don't think he was saying you should be banned.

00:31:25.920 I think he was saying that immigration from certain countries should be banned.

00:31:29.420 Now, there's a debate-

00:31:30.280 No, he said all Muslims.

00:31:31.140 Let's be honest.

00:31:32.020 What?

00:31:32.280 As in you who live in this country should be banned?

00:31:34.020 No, no.

00:31:34.380 But he's saying that now, by the way.

00:31:35.860 Well, you should be banned.

00:31:37.120 He said, okay, so two things about that.

00:31:38.820 Number one, let's acknowledge that he said for Muslims coming into the country, I'm going

00:31:43.060 to ban them all based on their religion.

00:31:44.860 Not them all.

00:31:45.220 We're going to ban people coming from-

00:31:46.780 No, no, no, no, no, no.

00:31:47.780 From specific countries.

00:31:48.840 No, in the-

00:31:49.660 Now, you're talking about what happened in the administration because of the courts

00:31:52.440 and the pushback, et cetera.

00:31:54.000 But during the campaign, he said, I want a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering

00:31:59.520 the country.

00:32:00.440 Okay?

00:32:01.100 So that is a bona fide, bigoted, fascist thing to say.

00:32:04.640 If he had said, I want a total and complete shutdown of these goddamn Jews entering the

00:32:08.040 country, we'd all agree, fascists, right?

00:32:10.780 I don't know about fasc- I don't- I don't know how that's fascist.

00:32:13.520 Okay, well, all right.

00:32:14.740 What it takes- whichever word you like.

00:32:16.380 No, no, no, no, but this matters because fascists were actually allied with some Muslims during

00:32:20.940 World War II.

00:32:21.640 No, no, nonsense.

00:32:23.240 In fact, it's not about Muslims, Jews, Christians, et cetera.

00:32:25.680 Fascists pick one minority or several minorities and they direct all the hatred and fear towards

00:32:31.740 those minorities so they can accumulate more power.

00:32:34.500 So it doesn't matter if it was Jews or Muslims that they do it to.

00:32:38.100 It doesn't have to be Jews.

00:32:39.280 It doesn't have to be Muslim.

00:32:40.600 But then, okay, so let's talk about now.

00:32:42.220 He's running this campaign.

00:32:43.180 And so, first of all, on Palestinians, he calls- he used the word Palestinian as an insult.

00:32:52.800 He said, oh, Schumer turned into a Palestinian.

00:32:55.060 It's all on tape, guys.

00:32:56.400 So he's done it over and over again.

00:32:58.400 Okay, so you are just- so you're obviously blatantly racist against Palestinians.

00:33:02.800 Now, a lot of people might say, I don't care.

00:33:04.620 I don't care.

00:33:05.400 I don't care about Palestinians.

00:33:06.720 They're not Americans.

00:33:07.640 Okay, but at least be honest about it, okay?

00:33:10.160 So that's just the tip of the iceberg for him.

00:33:12.880 He said- Mr. Anti-war said, oh, Israel should hit their nuclear facilities, which would create a much larger war.

00:33:20.220 This is all problematic.

00:33:21.640 But Trump is an interesting guy because he speaks out of both sides of his mouth, which is actually smart politics.

00:33:26.240 Because when he won on election night, he said, we're for everyone.

00:33:29.480 And he even mentioned Muslims and Arabs.

00:33:31.400 So give him credit for that.

00:33:32.480 I give him credit for everything he deserves credit for, and I give discredit for everything he has discredit for.

00:33:38.000 Guys, the thing I'm most worried about, when you say about me, okay, I'm already here.

00:33:41.300 I'm already an American citizen, right?

00:33:42.880 And by the way, we came to this country because we love this country.

00:33:46.320 So sometimes people on the left will be like, oh, America's bad or the flag.

00:33:49.720 I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.

00:33:51.000 Don't give up the flag to them.

00:33:52.400 Are you nuts?

00:33:52.980 That's our flag.

00:33:53.780 We love this flag, okay?

00:33:55.160 So his potential attorney general, I think his name is Mike Davis, said that Mehdi Hassan should be arrested, denaturalized for the tens of millions of naturalized citizens in America.

00:34:11.780 That is the scariest word there is.

00:34:14.560 Why was that?

00:34:15.880 Because that says, oh, we told you you were 100% American citizen, but we were lying.

00:34:19.940 No, no, no.

00:34:20.400 Sorry, Cenk.

00:34:20.940 I'm saying why did they say he should be denaturalized?

00:34:23.460 What did Mehdi say or do?

00:34:25.240 First of all, his brother is a hardcore MAGA.

00:34:27.980 He doesn't care what Mehdi.

00:34:28.840 My guess is he was opposed to Mehdi for opposing Israel.

00:34:32.100 But I don't know what their particular beef is.

00:34:34.300 And does it matter?

00:34:35.220 Does it matter?

00:34:36.580 Denaturalize a thing that doesn't even exist and then deport.

00:34:39.460 And Trump also said, if you dare protest Israel, I will arrest and deport you.

00:34:44.740 So what kind of populist is this guy?

00:34:47.360 So maybe he'll prove me wrong.

00:34:48.760 I'm super open-minded.

00:34:49.860 I just wrote on X this morning, I said, he's got a chance to be a populist hero or a fascist

00:34:55.260 thief.

00:34:55.720 It's not me.

00:34:56.700 It's him.

00:34:57.200 Hold on a second.

00:34:58.660 Look, you're very good at putting your arguments forward, which I appreciate.

00:35:01.960 But we started this portion of the conversation by me asking you about the Madison Square Garden

00:35:07.200 rally, Nazism and Hitler, right?

00:35:11.260 And this whole branch of our discussion comes back to you were saying the left is civil and

00:35:18.100 it needs to not be civil and France is saying to you, when you call people Hitler and when

00:35:22.680 you call people Nazis, that isn't civility.

00:35:25.220 That's where this whole branch of the conversation goes.

00:35:27.280 So you don't call Trump Hitler and you don't call the Republicans Nazis.

00:35:32.980 But when you say the word fascist, as you say, the meaning of that word has been eroded.

00:35:37.800 That's where most people's minds is going to go, right?

00:35:40.340 So what do you, so you guys tell me, what should I call his obvious dictatorial tendencies?

00:35:45.500 Well, actually, this is a really great question because what I'd love for you to do is, and

00:35:52.120 this is a genuine question.

00:35:53.260 I'm not trying to catch you out or anything like that.

00:35:55.380 I genuinely am interested.

00:35:56.420 I have heard a lot of rhetoric from people about Donald Trump and the concerns that they

00:36:03.580 have about the next four years.

00:36:06.100 And, you know, people use words like fascist, dictatorial, et cetera.

00:36:10.980 What do you fear over the next four years he is going to do that makes you say in the present

00:36:18.580 moment that he's dictatorial, fascist?

00:36:21.000 What is he going to do, do you think?

00:36:22.360 Yeah, so again, I don't know that he's going to do it because there's countervailing forces.

00:36:28.060 What do you fear?

00:36:28.640 And I think the countervailing forces are super interesting and we should talk about that.

00:36:32.100 And I'm really interested to see which way the right wing goes in this country under

00:36:35.940 Trump.

00:36:36.960 But the worst case scenario is he gets frazzled and feels challenged and he falls back on

00:36:44.400 what he always does, which is protect his ego.

00:36:46.700 And so he, and he starts pilfering and pilfering and that's very much in his nature.

00:36:50.880 Grab, take, take, because now there's no accountability.

00:36:54.080 What are you going to do, impeach him?

00:36:55.060 What are you going to do, arrest him?

00:36:56.100 No accountability.

00:36:56.860 There's no brakes in the car.

00:36:58.040 So we're all at his mercy.

00:36:59.500 Sorry to interrupt, but this is important for clarity.

00:37:01.720 What do you mean by pilfering?

00:37:02.940 He's going to be pilfering and pilfering.

00:37:04.420 Okay, so easy examples, but there's a million of these.

00:37:08.260 He puts Jared Kushner in charge of the Middle East last time around and Saudi Arabia.

00:37:13.820 Jared Kushner at some point goes to Saudi Arabia, talks to Mohammed bin Salman.

00:37:16.740 And right afterwards, Mohammed bin Salman arrests a whole bunch of people.

00:37:20.340 Okay.

00:37:20.720 I don't want to get into too much into what happened in that meeting and what the results

00:37:24.220 were, but whatever it was, Mohammed bin Salman was super pleased because right after the election,

00:37:28.700 he gives Jared Kushner $2 billion to manage, but that gets two and 20 on that.

00:37:35.260 So if you know private equity and, and how that works, what that means is he's going to

00:37:39.060 make hundreds of millions of dollars.

00:37:41.040 So if Hunter Biden got a $2 billion deal from the Saudis after Joe Biden left office, I,

00:37:47.760 and I did, I was like, Hunter Biden's not a Ukrainian gas expert.

00:37:51.420 That's nuts.

00:37:52.240 Okay.

00:37:52.380 And that was 5 million.

00:37:53.300 So your fear number one is that his family will benefit financially from his president

00:37:59.160 and him will benefit financially.

00:38:00.980 And his donors, most of all, his donors.

00:38:02.720 And his donors.

00:38:03.200 What else?

00:38:03.920 Okay.

00:38:04.480 So, so that's, but to be fair to Trump, like the reason, part of the reason the establishment

00:38:08.580 hates him is because he's systemically and personally corrupt, whereas they're just largely

00:38:14.300 systemically corrupt.

00:38:15.680 Look, I'm accepting all this for the sake of argument without challenging, because I just

00:38:19.200 want you to get to like the real fascism that he's going to do that you worry about.

00:38:22.940 So the reason I'm saying that is because since most of the politicians are systemically corrupt

00:38:26.600 anyway, that's not the fascism I'm referring to.

00:38:28.720 Yeah.

00:38:29.420 So where's the fascism?

00:38:30.480 So he says, I'm going to deport all the undocumented immigrants.

00:38:33.300 So some people might say, yeah, good.

00:38:35.160 Rip them out of their homes.

00:38:36.300 13, 15 million people, whatever it is.

00:38:38.460 Oh, they're running a diner.

00:38:39.500 They're beloved in their neighborhood.

00:38:40.920 They married an American citizen.

00:38:42.580 Whatever they did.

00:38:43.600 I don't care.

00:38:44.860 And oh, their kids are American citizens.

00:38:47.320 Rip them away from their babies and send them the goddamn back home.

00:38:50.840 Now, that's a debatable point as to whether that's fascism.

00:38:53.720 My guess is that once he starts, if he starts doing it and you start seeing people ripped

00:38:59.000 out of their homes, that people are going to go, oh, that don't look good.

00:39:02.480 I don't think he's going to do that.

00:39:03.940 Yeah.

00:39:04.480 Okay.

00:39:04.800 We're going to find out.

00:39:05.440 He might not.

00:39:06.300 We're going to find out.

00:39:06.920 But if he was to, let's say, you know, I think the more likely scenario, I don't know

00:39:10.720 if you agree with Jeng, but I think it's possible that this is the more likely scenario is he

00:39:15.400 deports all the people who've committed a crime in this country who are illegal immigrants,

00:39:20.180 right?

00:39:20.320 People not only came here legally, but have committed a crime, and people who don't have

00:39:25.280 American family and don't have dependents here.

00:39:27.620 Let's say he was to deport all those people.

00:39:29.760 Would that be fascism in your view?

00:39:31.600 I don't even know if he deported all the undocumented immigrants, it would be fascism.

00:39:35.260 I'm not even stipulating for that.

00:39:36.800 Let's get to the fascism, though, because this is what I want to get to.

00:39:39.380 Right?

00:39:39.620 And by the way, people who committed crimes should obviously be deported.

00:39:42.300 Right.

00:39:42.460 So then the thing that I'm concerned about is both him and the potential attorney general

00:39:49.940 saying, if you're on a campus and you're protesting, you're protesting Trump, you're protesting

00:39:54.340 Israel, you're protesting the oil companies, you're protesting something we don't like.

00:39:58.020 Arrest and deport you.

00:39:59.100 Wait, what happened to cancel culture?

00:40:00.760 I mean, arresting someone for protesting or voicing their speech is the most both cancel

00:40:07.960 culture you could do.

00:40:08.800 I mean, you're taking the guy's freedom away, right?

00:40:10.840 I agree.

00:40:11.120 But deporting people that are American citizens, what the hell are you talking about?

00:40:15.200 Yeah, you can't do that.

00:40:15.840 But did he do any of that in his first term?

00:40:18.160 So he didn't.

00:40:19.340 He didn't do that.

00:40:20.520 Okay.

00:40:20.840 Okay.

00:40:21.260 But so and that's why I say, guys, before when he's running, he threatens to do total,

00:40:26.880 complete shutdown of Muslims.

00:40:28.100 He threatens to arrest and deport people, et cetera.

00:40:30.380 But he doesn't.

00:40:31.240 He didn't necessarily do it.

00:40:32.960 So, for example, they said, lock her up, lock her up.

00:40:35.520 And then he got into office and he said, no, I'm not locking Hillary Clinton up.

00:40:38.360 So I have an open mind.

00:40:39.880 I have an open mind.

00:40:40.560 But what are the fascism?

00:40:41.940 So when he threatens those type of things, I go, I am deeply, deeply concerned.

00:40:45.780 Now, here's other things.

00:40:46.840 Okay.

00:40:47.300 So they had a three hour meeting after he lost the election where Michael Flynn and I

00:40:51.680 believe Sidney Powell, don't quote me on that.

00:40:54.300 I don't want to get sued.

00:40:55.120 Okay.

00:40:55.320 But definitely Michael Flynn said, let's use martial law.

00:40:59.180 Let's roll out the tanks.

00:41:00.340 And we won this election and we're going to correct the fraud and let's go grab the actual

00:41:07.560 ballot machines.

00:41:09.040 Okay.

00:41:10.140 And Trump was like, okay, now I'm listening.

00:41:12.360 Now we're having a conversation.

00:41:13.560 And that's why it lasted three hours.

00:41:14.980 So you...

00:41:15.600 At the end, hold on.

00:41:16.280 No, no, hold on.

00:41:16.940 You're talking about something that already happened.

00:41:18.680 I'm asking you about the future.

00:41:19.680 Let's just stick with that.

00:41:20.460 No, but that's totally relevant.

00:41:21.840 Well, I'm sure, which is why I'm asking you the question to follow up.

00:41:25.000 So do you fear that at the end of this four year period, he's not going to relinquish power?

00:41:31.360 Is that what you're saying?

00:41:32.220 So since he didn't try, since he didn't relinquish power last time, yes.

00:41:37.060 Well, ultimately he did, but you fear...

00:41:38.920 Come on, guys.

00:41:40.300 Fine.

00:41:40.460 Let's accept that for the sake of argument again.

00:41:43.020 So you fear that at the end of this four year period, when he can no longer run for election

00:41:47.800 again, you fear that he will not hand over the presidency.

00:41:51.020 A guy who said, let's terminate the constitution, consider martial law, and I had a fake elector

00:41:54.880 plot to steal an election.

00:41:56.320 Might he try to stay in power?

00:41:57.580 Of course.

00:41:58.420 Of course.

00:41:58.960 He tried to do it once.

00:41:59.880 Well, that's good.

00:42:00.360 So we got to...

00:42:00.980 So you fear that at the end of this four year period, he will not vacate the White House.

00:42:05.880 That is one of my concerns, absolutely.

00:42:08.100 And that alone is a deal breaker.

00:42:09.840 Well, it'd be a deal breaker for anyone, left and right.

00:42:12.460 No question.

00:42:13.360 Except it wasn't, because he already tried to do it.

00:42:15.580 And the right was like, ah, no big deal.

00:42:16.820 No big deal.

00:42:17.320 I don't think that's quite...

00:42:18.220 It was a giant deal.

00:42:19.040 Yeah, I don't think that's quite true.

00:42:20.140 But anyway, so that's your big concern.

00:42:22.780 So that's number one.

00:42:24.420 Number two is, the reason I was telling you about martial law is because he's also said,

00:42:29.000 let's use the military to shoot the protesters in the legs.

00:42:31.280 Let's use the National Guard to arrest citizens, et cetera.

00:42:34.640 When you're talking about arresting or shooting U.S. citizens and you're using the military

00:42:39.060 to do that because you don't like their protests, and you could be livid about their protests.

00:42:43.860 It doesn't matter.

00:42:44.860 Sure, it's on America.

00:42:45.340 We have a right to protest.

00:42:46.360 Of course.

00:42:46.920 And when he says that, and he has definitively said that and set it on the record, if you go

00:42:50.960 and do that now that there are no breaks in the guard and there is no General Milley and

00:42:54.140 there is no General Kelly and they're not going to be able to stop him.

00:42:56.760 If he does that, do you guys agree that would be fascist?

00:42:59.120 Of course.

00:42:59.840 Yeah.

00:43:00.040 So your great concerns are just...

00:43:02.520 So to replay it for people and then I'll hand over to Francis are, number one, at the

00:43:07.040 end of the four-year term that he currently has, he's not going to hand over the presidency,

00:43:11.400 number one.

00:43:12.060 And number two, he is going to be deeply un-American about the way he handles free speech and the

00:43:18.260 right to protest and the right to free assembly.

00:43:20.140 In other words, he will take protesters and strip them of citizenship.

00:43:24.420 He will have the army shoot them.

00:43:26.340 He will imprison people for turning up on a college campus and burning an American flag,

00:43:30.480 let's say.

00:43:31.300 Those are your two main kind of like, this is the fascism that might happen.

00:43:35.000 Have I got you right?

00:43:36.040 That's right.

00:43:36.660 And I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen.

00:43:38.340 But that's your concern.

00:43:39.080 He has said those things and it makes me concerned that he will do those things.

00:43:43.420 Okay.

00:43:43.780 Well, I'm glad we got that out.

00:43:44.920 Yeah.

00:43:45.520 So, Cenk, I think the left have got a real opportunity now.

00:43:49.480 If we look at it, if you look at the Democrat Party, they've been absolutely decimated.

00:43:55.440 And this is a prime moment for the left to actually put some new ideas, some new policies

00:44:01.980 in place.

00:44:03.220 What does the left need to do, in your opinion, to be able to challenge the right?

00:44:07.940 Because what is very interesting about this MAGA party is that RFK Jr., former Dem, Tulsi

00:44:16.980 Gabbard, former Dem, Elon Musk, former financial donor to the Dems.

00:44:23.960 What do they need to do now in order to challenge and maybe get some of the more populist elements

00:44:29.560 of the Democrat Party like Tulsi back in the fold?

00:44:32.340 We need to have a democratic civil war within the Democratic Party.

00:44:36.220 And not violently, not physically, obviously.

00:44:38.200 I just told you how deeply concerned I am about that.

00:44:40.380 Of course.

00:44:40.740 Politically and rhetorically.

00:44:42.340 And so this brings us back to what went wrong with the Justice Democrats.

00:44:45.560 So I founded it, I named it, and we had one of the greatest political upsets in American

00:44:54.320 history, AOC beating Joe Crowley when he was the number four Democrat.

00:44:57.920 It was a miracle, right?

00:44:59.080 And we put 11 Justice Democrats in Congress when everybody expected zero, right?

00:45:05.080 So we started a whole wing of the Democratic Party that was supposed to be populist and

00:45:09.060 progressive.

00:45:09.420 Okay, so, but, and half of it worked because we set the rule, no corporate PAC money, okay?

00:45:15.880 So anyone who, watch this, guys, and I'll tell you, Republicans to look out for, okay?

00:45:20.560 Anyone who rejects corporate PAC money instantly becomes more honest.

00:45:23.880 And that includes Matt Gaetz and Josh Hawley.

00:45:27.180 They started actually rejecting corporate PAC money and instantly they started proposing bills

00:45:31.560 with Ro Khanna on AOC to end corruption, end the stock market trading that the Congress

00:45:36.420 people do, et cetera.

00:45:37.480 I love those bills.

00:45:39.260 Hate Matt Gaetz, love that bill, okay?

00:45:42.140 So the half where they went wrong is they were supposed to challenge their colleagues.

00:45:48.040 And, but when you get there, it's so hard.

00:45:50.340 To be fair to them, there is this culture of, oh my God, the most sacrosanct thing in the

00:45:56.300 world is being nice to your colleagues.

00:45:58.480 And if you challenge them and you call them corrupt because they're taking corporate donations,

00:46:02.620 you are the meanest person on earth.

00:46:06.040 And what progressives and liberals don't want to be is mean, right?

00:46:09.540 So they're like, oh no, no, no, I'm not mean.

00:46:11.000 I'm not mean.

00:46:11.660 I love my colleagues.

00:46:12.800 I won't challenge them on corruption.

00:46:14.560 Can I push back on that?

00:46:15.940 Because I would disagree with you there because what I think one of the problems of the left

00:46:20.520 is, and it's not just the left in this country, it's the left everywhere, is they're too scared

00:46:25.000 of their own.

00:46:25.980 The left are far more scared about their colleagues than they are about the opposition because

00:46:30.440 their colleagues have got the power to cancel them and ruin their careers and their lives.

00:46:36.520 So that is entirely true.

00:46:38.520 And so it's both, right?

00:46:40.000 So one, they use these cultural tricks like you're going to be mean and you're a bad person

00:46:44.060 and you're a weirdo radical.

00:46:45.660 You don't want to be a weirdo radical, do you?

00:46:47.700 I mean, by the way, if you play ball, you get to go on the cover of Vogue and you get

00:46:51.140 to go to the Met and you get to be the belle of the ball, right?

00:46:54.040 And so those things work in tandem.

00:46:57.300 But now remember, if you don't play ball, look at what we did at Jank, right?

00:47:02.120 We could, all these different smears and claim to use anti-Semitic.

00:47:06.260 We made it up.

00:47:07.020 By the way, the New York Times had to issue a correction for how many lies that they told

00:47:10.460 about me, et cetera.

00:47:11.340 But we'll ruin you.

00:47:12.960 You know, that is an implicit thread that always hangs over their heads.

00:47:16.200 So I get it.

00:47:18.100 I get it.

00:47:18.640 It's too much pressure.

00:47:20.020 But sorry, guys, we've got to start that fight.

00:47:23.700 If you don't start that fight, you're never going to win.

00:47:27.260 You're not going to convince Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi to

00:47:32.080 go, oh, donors?

00:47:33.520 Oh, forget the billions we're getting from donor money.

00:47:36.140 You convinced me in a debate.

00:47:38.260 There's no convincing.

00:47:39.680 There's no debates.

00:47:40.900 It's pure corruption.

00:47:42.840 So the day after the election, Bernie came out with a scathing letter saying, this Democratic

00:47:48.840 Party has lost its soul.

00:47:50.500 We have to go back there representing the average man.

00:47:52.360 And I said, oh, thank God, Bernie's back.

00:47:55.760 So because for four years, they put him in a cave somewhere.

00:47:59.560 And the progressives, literally the head of the progressive caucus, Pramila Jayapal,

00:48:04.000 who I have huge issues with, and her strategy through the four years was trust Biden.

00:48:09.180 That was literally what it was called, trust Biden.

00:48:11.120 Like, that is the worst political strategy in human history because you're giving away

00:48:15.640 all of your leverage, you know.

00:48:17.680 Besides which, you're trusting your enemy.

00:48:20.940 Corporate Democrats are not your allies.

00:48:23.960 They are your opponents.

00:48:25.040 Corporate Democrats and corporate Republicans are on the same team.

00:48:28.620 They're just doing good cop, bad cop.

00:48:30.260 Fox News and MSNBC are on the same team.

00:48:32.980 They're just doing good cop, bad cop, okay?

00:48:35.300 The whole idea is the establishment drives status quo, corporate donations, etc.

00:48:40.180 So we have to fight.

00:48:42.380 So for Democrats who have been trained by NPR, you whisper, you whisper, you don't fight,

00:48:47.740 you're civil.

00:48:48.700 They're training you into obedience.

00:48:51.380 Don't do it.

00:48:52.200 Get up and fight.

00:48:54.000 Joe Biden, Hakeem Jeffries, etc. are not your friends.

00:48:57.340 They're not your allies or colleagues.

00:48:59.320 They are your political opponents.

00:49:01.640 You must defeat them in a primary in order to get to the right place.

00:49:05.080 Okay, so here's a pushback.

00:49:07.020 Bernie Sanders, we all know, was the rightful presidential candidate in 2016.

00:49:12.020 That's indisputable.

00:49:13.480 He did everything right.

00:49:15.580 He had the popular vote within the Democratic Party.

00:49:20.320 I personally think nobody will never know, sadly, that he stood a much better chance of

00:49:28.060 defeating Trump than Hillary.

00:49:29.920 He did everything right, Cenk, and they didn't let him win.

00:49:34.780 Oh, I know.

00:49:35.940 So look, I went through it this time around.

00:49:38.640 So how did the Democrats rig primaries?

00:49:42.800 So it's a little bit different than Trump, but actually in one part in the last primary,

00:49:46.180 a little bit similar.

00:49:46.760 So they don't do it through the votes.

00:49:50.500 Nobody's playing with the Dominions.

00:49:52.560 There's no evidence to that effect at all.

00:49:54.140 There was no evidence for Trump.

00:49:55.500 There's no evidence for Bernie.

00:49:56.620 Okay.

00:49:57.240 But they rigged it by, in 2016, they did only six debates where the Republicans did over 20.

00:50:03.000 They buried the debates on nights where there was football, so they'd get less viewership.

00:50:07.780 So these are like little subtle things that they do.

00:50:10.100 And then Donald Brazil fed Hillary Clinton the questions in a debate.

00:50:14.040 By the way, who broke that story?

00:50:15.160 Young Turks broke that story, okay?

00:50:17.120 And so when we did, the establishment called us radicals and lunatics, conspiracy theory.

00:50:22.020 There's no way Donna Brazil gave the questions to Hillary Clinton, but we were right.

00:50:25.180 She did, okay?

00:50:26.500 By the way, CNN, did you ever come back and apologize to us for being right about that story?

00:50:31.000 No.

00:50:31.460 So that's another way that they rigged it.

00:50:32.860 The third way they rigged it is they put money from the state parties and funneled to Hillary Clinton,

00:50:37.780 which they should have never done.

00:50:39.400 That's money laundering from one of the candidates against another while they're pretending to be neutral.

00:50:43.160 In the 2020 primary that barely existed, we had people in the race.

00:50:48.380 We had me.

00:50:48.920 We had Marianne Williamson.

00:50:49.880 We had Dean Phillips.

00:50:51.120 You could have had a real primary.

00:50:52.640 In the beginning, we had RFK Jr., and he was actually polling really well.

00:50:55.360 So you should have kept all those people in the primary, and you should have had debates.

00:50:59.600 Of course, they were never going to have debates.

00:51:01.060 You can't challenge the powerful in a Democratic primary.

00:51:03.500 And then they started canceling elections.

00:51:06.220 The party that was in favor of democracy canceled the Florida election in the primary.

00:51:10.720 Like, that's not a thing.

00:51:12.260 You can't cancel an election in a primary.

00:51:14.480 What are you guys doing?

00:51:15.720 So I know all of this, brother.

00:51:17.420 I know it, okay?

00:51:18.360 I've lived it, and it's happened to me, right?

00:51:20.960 But we don't have a choice.

00:51:22.060 So what we have to do is when we, but there's a new dynamic that's going to help us, and

00:51:26.780 I think it's critical.

00:51:28.160 So when we go, when that happens again in 2028 in the primaries, and will the mainstream

00:51:32.660 media smear the populist candidates, smear them eight ways to Sunday, when Bernie nearly

00:51:37.500 won in 2020, he won the first three states, Chris Matthews came on air and said, oh, he's

00:51:41.500 going to do executions in Central Park.

00:51:43.940 He's like, if people like Bernie Sanders wins, people like me will be executed in Central

00:51:48.420 Park.

00:51:48.780 Chuck Todd said that his supporters were brown shirts.

00:51:52.480 Bernie Sanders is Jewish.

00:51:53.780 They started calling his supporters Nazis.

00:51:55.820 Where have I heard that before?

00:51:56.980 So I get character assassination shit.

00:51:58.960 And what I tell progressives and populists is, brothers, expect it.

00:52:03.240 Don't be surprised.

00:52:04.140 Like, oh my God, mainstream media is not on our side.

00:52:06.620 Let's go fight the sons of bitches.

00:52:08.280 And when they do, and when they do all those tricks, the Democrats and the mainstream media,

00:52:12.280 the good news is, now there's online media.

00:52:14.960 Our show is larger than their show.

00:52:17.840 Rogan exists.

00:52:18.780 Et cetera, et cetera.

00:52:19.440 Now, maybe a lot of those guys are right wing.

00:52:21.320 Couldn't have mentioned trigonometry.

00:52:24.160 Trigonometry.

00:52:24.520 Come on, Max.

00:52:25.220 Here we are.

00:52:26.100 No, but that's exactly right, though.

00:52:27.340 Yeah.

00:52:27.700 And Lex Friedman exists.

00:52:28.840 And so many others exist, right?

00:52:30.600 And maybe some of them are not on our side.

00:52:32.560 And maybe they'll say, oh, I don't like those socialists.

00:52:34.460 I don't like those guys.

00:52:35.400 I'm not going to help them.

00:52:36.720 But maybe they'll go, wait a minute.

00:52:38.880 They're right.

00:52:39.540 Mainstream media is lying about them.

00:52:41.200 Wait a minute.

00:52:41.500 Why is the Democratic Party money laundering for one of the candidates but not the other, right?

00:52:46.120 And so I think mainstream media loses power every single day.

00:52:49.620 Online media gains power every day.

00:52:51.380 Mainstream media is, by definition, corporatists run by multibillion-dollar corporations.

00:52:55.580 Advertisers are all multibillion-dollar corporations.

00:52:57.900 Online media, by definition, is populist.

00:52:59.880 The way they got popular is by appealing to the people.

00:53:02.820 They didn't have a choice.

00:53:04.200 You have to earn those viewers online.

00:53:06.680 They don't get handed to, okay?

00:53:08.560 So that online media can help a populist win in the Democratic or Republican Party.

00:53:14.420 And in the Republican Party, it already happened.

00:53:15.980 I just haven't think it's a fake populist.

00:53:17.740 But I like that they went in a populist direction because Mitch McConnell isn't ever going to help anyone.

00:53:22.040 Yeah, and I guess the question that I'm going to ask is, can the Democrat Party be saved?

00:53:29.220 Because what you have said to me is that it's structural.

00:53:33.260 And is it too rotten now for it to ever be fit for purpose?

00:53:39.240 Is it always going to be corporatists?

00:53:41.160 Is it always going to be funded by the elites?

00:53:43.880 So there's a great model for us.

00:53:46.360 It's called Trump.

00:53:47.400 Now, that's the title of the episode, everybody.

00:53:51.340 Okay.

00:53:51.780 And so I don't mean to do all the negative things he does.

00:53:56.340 We don't have to threaten to not listen when we lose.

00:54:00.080 We don't have to threaten to terminate the Constitution and other ethnicities, etc.

00:54:05.860 But he took on the powerful.

00:54:08.120 You know, I called Trump winning the Republican primary in 2016 in October, four months before they started voting.

00:54:15.640 Why did I do that?

00:54:16.660 When everybody thought I was crazy, Trump, that clown showman, you think he's going to win?

00:54:22.320 Every friend of mine thought I was the craziest person they ever met for two reasons.

00:54:25.860 Number one, the polling showed it.

00:54:27.260 And they're like, oh, we don't believe the people.

00:54:28.680 No.

00:54:29.200 Mainstream media will change their minds and have them support.

00:54:31.820 They implicitly think that, right?

00:54:33.940 But the second reason was more important.

00:54:35.680 When he got up on that debate stage and said, all these guys are corrupt.

00:54:39.500 I gave them money and they did whatever I wanted.

00:54:42.720 I was like, oh, that's it.

00:54:43.520 He's going to win.

00:54:44.400 Okay.

00:54:44.920 Because that's true.

00:54:45.880 And so we just, and why didn't Bernie ultimately, why wasn't he able to overcome and win in the primaries in 2016, 2020?

00:54:55.420 Number one, all the factors we talked about, mainstream media smeared them to no end.

00:54:59.760 They supported Biden.

00:55:01.120 My book, Justice is Coming.

00:55:02.480 I explain all of it and how they cheated, rigged, etc.

00:55:06.720 In their framing, in their conversations there.

00:55:09.080 So, yeah, he had that, but he still could have overcome it.

00:55:12.180 At the end of the day, Bernie's number one problem and why I wouldn't support him again.

00:55:15.580 And I support him as a politician and in policies, etc.

00:55:18.620 He's a wonderfully honest guy.

00:55:20.160 But he's not, he's too civil.

00:55:25.740 He doesn't have it in his DNA to fight the sons of bitches.

00:55:29.140 Okay.

00:55:29.840 He should have said, they asked him if Hillary Clinton changed any of her votes in the 2016 debate in Brooklyn.

00:55:36.920 That was the pivotal moment.

00:55:38.800 He should have said, of course she did.

00:55:40.200 She got money from the bankers, record amount of money, both in campaign contributions and direct payments through speeches.

00:55:45.980 And then she changed her position on the bankruptcy bill.

00:55:48.940 Period.

00:55:49.740 Period.

00:55:50.380 Is she corrupt?

00:55:51.140 You're goddamn right she's corrupt.

00:55:53.240 And when a politician, when a populist in a primary, in a Democratic primary debate, which they must have next time.

00:55:59.740 If they get up and say, these guys are all corrupt and here's how I can prove it to you.

00:56:04.420 Here's the money they took.

00:56:05.520 Here's the bills that they voted on.

00:56:07.380 That guy wins in a landslide, wins easy, wins running away.

00:56:12.040 But they have to have the courage to say it.

00:56:15.320 Cenk, there's one other thing I really want to explore with you in terms of this result that we've seen in the last few weeks.

00:56:21.100 This will go out after a couple of weeks from when we're recording it.

00:56:25.320 Which is the, what people call wokeness, let's say.

00:56:30.440 Which is the cultural dimension of these conversations.

00:56:33.960 And you alluded to the transgender ad the Republicans ran that was highly effective.

00:56:39.340 I think you're totally right about that.

00:56:41.260 This broader sense that, you know, transgender education in schools, gender affirming care where people who are minors are allowed and sometimes even encouraged to chop healthy parts of their bodies.

00:56:55.020 Because it aligns more with their self-perception in this moment.

00:56:58.180 You know, the future is female.

00:57:01.480 Extra money for this racial group or that racial group as a promise in the election.

00:57:06.860 You know, these things, while they're considered kind of trivial by some people, I think they're very, they've become very unpopular with a lot of people, you know, calling, you know, Latinos latinx and all of this other stuff.

00:57:20.300 How much do you think that contributed to this outcome?

00:57:24.180 And how much does that need to change over the next four years if the Democrats are to have any success?

00:57:29.060 So, it's much smaller than the corporate issues, right?

00:57:33.440 But Bernie 2016 was better than Bernie 2020.

00:57:37.020 Because Bernie 2020 adopted some of those policy planks.

00:57:40.760 He kind of got bullied into it.

00:57:42.280 And I thought it was a bad idea and it did prove to be a bad idea.

00:57:45.760 So, but woke is another one of those words like fascism and socialism where people put meaning into it.

00:57:51.400 That's why I explained what I meant, right?

00:57:53.040 Like obsession with trans, obsession with dividing men and women, obsession with identity, all of that.

00:57:58.960 So, half of what people refer to as woke is perfectly fine.

00:58:02.780 There's nothing wrong with it.

00:58:03.580 In fact, I think it's positive.

00:58:04.900 Half of what they refer to as woke is disastrous, okay?

00:58:08.360 So, the half that's like Trump says total complete shutdown of Muslims and people go, well, we shouldn't do that.

00:58:15.200 But they go, oh, you're woke.

00:58:16.060 No, no, no.

00:58:16.500 But that's why I explained what I meant here.

00:58:18.860 That's why I explained what I meant, right?

00:58:20.220 Right.

00:58:20.500 I did explain what I meant.

00:58:21.500 Yeah.

00:58:21.780 So, let's just deal with that.

00:58:22.320 But even in that, I can give you plenty of examples where we disagree.

00:58:25.160 Okay.

00:58:25.380 But on the ones that we do agree on.

00:58:27.740 So, we're in such a weird spot at TYT and at Young Turks because we're against the corporate wing, which is the majority wing of the Democratic Party.

00:58:36.160 So, we're already in the minority.

00:58:37.680 But we're also against the extreme left wing.

00:58:39.620 So, that gets us into a situation where we're squeezed in here and it seems like it should be a smaller audience, right?

00:58:48.060 But no, two-thirds of the country agrees with us.

00:58:50.460 That's why we're the largest show on the left by far, right?

00:58:53.920 And so, that's why I say focus on our super popular economic proposals.

00:58:58.220 What is unpopular on the extreme left?

00:59:00.480 And they get so mad when I say the extreme left or leftist.

00:59:03.120 But you give me a word and I'll use it.

00:59:05.160 I don't mind, right?

00:59:06.000 I don't like the word woke.

00:59:07.360 I think it's too loaded, right?

00:59:09.540 So, but these guys, they say, okay, let's fight for trans rights.

00:59:13.440 I say, I totally agree.

00:59:14.400 They should have 100% of the same rights as any other American citizen.

00:59:16.860 No question about it.

00:59:18.080 Do not discriminate at work and employment, housing, et cetera.

00:59:21.220 And the great majority of American people agree.

00:59:23.180 And in fact, Republicans tried that.

00:59:25.120 It didn't work.

00:59:25.980 Then they said, okay, let's ban.

00:59:27.100 Trump tried to ban them from the military.

00:59:28.940 People are like, they're risking their lives for this country.

00:59:31.520 We love that.

00:59:32.180 We don't dislike that.

00:59:33.660 That didn't work.

00:59:34.300 They tried to ban them from bathrooms.

00:59:36.020 And we're like, guys, really?

00:59:37.120 I mean, sexual assault in the bathrooms.

00:59:38.980 Then we're going to have to go after straight males.

00:59:40.980 They do it the most.

00:59:41.880 It just didn't work.

00:59:42.780 None of these worked and they're all wrong.

00:59:44.460 Okay.

00:59:44.940 But when they got dug and dug and finally got to an unpopular position, which is trans

00:59:50.000 women in women's sports, right?

00:59:53.160 The great majority of Americans don't think it should happen.

00:59:56.040 So at that point, I turned to the left and I go, guys, we're at the water's edge here.

01:00:00.880 Okay.

01:00:01.160 This is an unpopular position.

01:00:03.480 And by the way, at the professional level, I think on the high school level, leave the

01:00:06.700 kids alone.

01:00:07.680 If your daughter came in second instead of first, you'll live.

01:00:11.300 Don't take it.

01:00:11.760 Hold on a second.

01:00:12.980 Sorry to interrupt.

01:00:13.880 And I hope you feel that we're having this respectful disagreement, right?

01:00:18.840 You can't say that, especially in this country where your outcomes in college, whether

01:00:23.760 you get a scholarship, whether you get to have a career in that sport, depends on your ability.

01:00:28.760 There are young women who've been locked out of the opportunity to compete fairly and to

01:00:34.660 succeed because somebody has come in and said, I identify as a woman, still got a penis, by

01:00:41.440 the way, right?

01:00:42.720 Still got testicles, still got testosterone, still got male bone structure, still got male

01:00:47.080 everything.

01:00:48.820 You're saying that doesn't matter?

01:00:50.340 So what I'm saying is, so let's distinguish a couple of things.

01:00:53.160 Yeah.

01:00:53.600 So at the professional level and the Olympic level, first I say to my leftist friends,

01:00:58.200 guys, leagues get to decide.

01:01:01.760 You don't have a right to be in the WNBA.

01:01:03.760 I don't have a right to be in the NBA.

01:01:05.200 Yeah.

01:01:05.360 They get to decide.

01:01:06.780 And if you say they don't have an advantage, not only does a great majority of Americans

01:01:10.440 not agree with you, I don't agree with you.

01:01:12.040 It's faction and crime.

01:01:12.840 Right.

01:01:13.440 A trans woman entered a weightlifting contest in her 40s and instantly lifted 200 pounds

01:01:19.600 more than the biological woman.

01:01:21.420 Yeah.

01:01:21.940 Although there's a meta study that studied seven people and it was inconclusive.

01:01:25.940 I read the studies.

01:01:27.340 Nonsense.

01:01:28.320 Nonsense.

01:01:29.180 Now, why do I have a different position at the high school level?

01:01:31.420 Because it's a balancing act.

01:01:32.640 So you're balancing, hey, there's, by the way, this is the tiniest issue in America.

01:01:37.280 It's called a wedge issue for a reason, because they don't want you to notice the great American

01:01:42.220 robbery, which is the corporate robbery that's going on.

01:01:44.680 So they try to drive a wedge between us.

01:01:46.920 We talked about that for 40 minutes, to be fair.

01:01:49.160 Okay.

01:01:49.540 So we haven't ignored that.

01:01:50.940 Yeah.

01:01:51.220 So let's just deal with this.

01:01:53.000 So here they've got, it's tiny.

01:01:56.500 What is it?

01:01:56.860 13 kids, 130 kids out of a country of 330 million people.

01:02:00.540 So when I look at the balancing interest there, I go, I understand what you're saying.

01:02:04.820 I understand that it might be unfair, right?

01:02:07.000 Okay.

01:02:07.400 On the other hand, now we're going to have to check the genitalia of kids.

01:02:10.680 I don't want to do that.

01:02:12.000 That's too much.

01:02:12.940 And you're going to tell a young trans kid, we're going to otherize you.

01:02:17.100 We're going to ostracize you.

01:02:18.620 You're not really a woman.

01:02:19.840 You're not really a girl.

01:02:20.740 But they're not a woman.

01:02:21.460 Okay.

01:02:22.060 All right.

01:02:22.480 But they're not.

01:02:23.320 But, but brother.

01:02:24.320 But they're not.

01:02:24.480 So if you've got a penis and you've got male testosterone and male bone structure, you're

01:02:29.160 not a woman.

01:02:30.040 So when you become an adult, we can have that debate.

01:02:33.040 But when you're a kid, I'm going to protect you.

01:02:34.840 And I'm going to say, go ahead and run in the race.

01:02:37.020 And if you beat my daughter and it costs her this much out of the 13 cases in the country,

01:02:41.420 and it costs her a little bit because she wanted to get into Yale, but she got into Dartmouth,

01:02:45.180 I'll live with it.

01:02:45.920 Because I'm not checking your genitalia and I'm not traumatizing you when you're a kid.

01:02:49.640 I would rather have my daughter come in second, third, or eighth, okay, than traumatize those

01:02:55.300 kids.

01:02:55.800 So we can agree to disagree on that, but that's my position on it.

01:02:59.000 So it's a balancing act and that's where I come out on the balance.

01:03:01.980 But it is a damaging issue, especially at the professional level.

01:03:05.360 So how did the extreme left react to me?

01:03:07.520 Nazi.

01:03:09.180 Okay.

01:03:10.040 So, well, when you do that, guys, that's why they call you woke.

01:03:13.480 That's why they say you're radical.

01:03:14.760 That's why they say you're extreme.

01:03:16.340 I mean, look at the microscopic difference I have with them.

01:03:18.620 I mean, it's, what is that?

01:03:20.500 2% disagreement on trans rights, right?

01:03:22.860 And it's not a right to play in a professional league.

01:03:25.020 It's not even, it's we 100% agree on rights.

01:03:28.140 Now you're having a, and then Latinx.

01:03:30.360 So I have a thousand examples.

01:03:32.120 When Latinx came out, we're the home of progressives.

01:03:35.280 Everybody's like, okay, so you're going to switch to Latinx?

01:03:36.920 I'm like, no, I'm not.

01:03:38.020 That's not a word I've ever seen a Latino or Latino use in my entire life.

01:03:41.880 You guys made that up at Oberlin and it's a bunch of white people that made it up and

01:03:45.980 it's trying to put it onto Latinos who never asked for it in the first place.

01:03:49.000 They're like, how dare you?

01:03:50.320 We're going to cancel you.

01:03:51.760 You're against Latinos.

01:03:53.320 They did a poll.

01:03:54.220 96% of Latinos don't want it.

01:03:56.060 Right.

01:03:56.440 Right.

01:03:56.800 So facts matter.

01:03:59.240 So these, they're going to extremes.

01:04:01.160 The Republicans are taking advantage of it to try to paint all of the Democrats as woke

01:04:05.660 when they're not at all.

01:04:06.640 Well, this is what we agree on.

01:04:07.360 I'll give you one more example.

01:04:08.540 If we just pause there, I think this is kind of why I asked you the original question because

01:04:12.400 it seems like, you know, the transition, we have very strong differences in how we view

01:04:16.940 that, but it doesn't matter.

01:04:17.860 My broader question to you is, as long as these people exist, as long as they're going

01:04:23.040 after people like you and people like us who are just in the center and going like,

01:04:27.320 guys, this is crazy.

01:04:28.200 Like, you can't say this.

01:04:29.300 This is insane.

01:04:30.080 Right.

01:04:30.260 I don't see how the Democrats come back.

01:04:34.840 I understand your issues about corporate power, but as long as these are the voice of

01:04:39.480 the left, which I don't agree.

01:04:40.940 I agree with you they're not, but they have been allowed to be the mouthpiece of the left

01:04:44.920 by the cowardice of the center left.

01:04:46.800 Would you agree with that?

01:04:47.480 Yeah, I would.

01:04:48.160 And that's why we don't do that cowardice on the young tourists.

01:04:50.680 But this is, I'm not having a go at you.

01:04:53.600 I'm saying for the Democrats to succeed, they have to ostracize that part of the left.

01:04:59.160 Right, but they have to do it in a way that isn't BS.

01:05:01.260 So let me explain how you do it.

01:05:02.320 Sure.

01:05:02.580 That's what I'm asking.

01:05:03.520 Yeah.

01:05:04.120 So first of all, so let's real quick establish who, what Democratic voters actually think.

01:05:11.140 So the far left told us, no, crime is imaginary and Democratic voters love the idea of crime

01:05:16.700 rising.

01:05:17.180 It's no big deal.

01:05:18.860 Right?

01:05:19.820 And plus, it doesn't even exist.

01:05:21.900 So we're arguing over nothing because it's a moron.

01:05:23.820 There is no crime, but if there is, it's good.

01:05:25.300 Yeah.

01:05:25.540 Okay.

01:05:26.120 Yeah.

01:05:26.260 And then we're trying to protect brown and black and brown communities by protecting the

01:05:29.600 criminals.

01:05:29.980 I'm like, do you have any idea how racist you sound?

01:05:31.880 Yeah.

01:05:32.220 Okay.

01:05:32.620 The real way that you protect black and brown communities and working class people is by

01:05:36.540 putting criminals in jail.

01:05:37.620 Okay.

01:05:38.120 So they, in California, they took felonies and moved into misdemeanors and didn't even

01:05:43.060 tell us.

01:05:43.780 I'm like, I never voted on that.

01:05:45.660 You never told me that's what we were voting on.

01:05:47.600 I never signed up for pro crime.

01:05:49.800 And so who was right and who was wrong between the leftist and me?

01:05:52.740 Right?

01:05:52.960 So they said, no, no, we represent democratic voters.

01:05:56.520 Well, good news.

01:05:57.340 We had a vote just now, Prop 36 in California, to increase penalties and bring those misdemeanors

01:06:02.400 back to felonies.

01:06:03.400 You made crime, crime again.

01:06:04.720 You made crime, crime again.

01:06:06.140 And guess what?

01:06:06.740 I was right and they were wrong.

01:06:08.060 Even in California, it passed with 70% of the vote.

01:06:12.580 Right?

01:06:12.880 So they do not represent democratic voters.

01:06:15.740 Every time they pretend to represent the left, they are actively lying.

01:06:19.540 Okay?

01:06:19.780 So that's now been firmly established.

01:06:22.480 They can be delusional.

01:06:23.520 They want, but at the national level on that trans ad, it was the most successful out of

01:06:27.180 the entire campaign.

01:06:28.280 They were wrong.

01:06:28.860 We were right.

01:06:29.460 Okay?

01:06:29.960 So how do you get past that?

01:06:31.800 Courage.

01:06:32.260 That's it.

01:06:32.840 Period.

01:06:33.480 So when you're on that debate stage and they say, hey, shouldn't the left deserve all the

01:06:38.140 blame, et cetera, you go, whoa, whoa, whoa, what do you mean left?

01:06:40.760 Okay?

01:06:41.520 The establishment Democrat, like that candidate over there, Gavin Newsom, he's the one that

01:06:46.220 deserves blame for the donor class, et cetera.

01:06:48.220 And if there's a person who's a woke, et cetera, or whatever you guys call woke and I call extreme

01:06:53.220 left, that's on that electorate.

01:06:55.180 And you go, no, no, no.

01:06:56.080 You don't speak for the Democratic Party.

01:06:57.980 We just have these votes.

01:06:59.800 The voters agree with me and not you here.

01:07:02.220 And I could prove it.

01:07:03.620 Now, look, if you're clear like that, then like right now, would anybody say, oh, yeah,

01:07:09.720 Jenk's an extreme leftist and I'm unclear as to what his position is.

01:07:13.900 They might disagree with me on some issues and say, oh, in my view of the world, you're

01:07:17.420 extreme left because of the high school issue, et cetera, right?

01:07:19.860 But they're not going to be unclear about my position.

01:07:22.100 No, they're not.

01:07:22.900 Full respect to you for that.

01:07:24.260 What I would say is I think the challenge to your position is the opposite, which is if

01:07:30.300 you're on that debate stage and I am one of the other people, I'm going to go, oh,

01:07:33.760 Jenk's transphobic.

01:07:34.880 He doesn't think trans women are real women because they're allowed.

01:07:39.060 He doesn't want them to be in the Olympics, but they're real women.

01:07:41.720 Don't you think the trans women are real women, Jenk?

01:07:43.860 Oh, they're going to have a point against me.

01:07:47.220 Ooh.

01:07:48.620 Well, give me your answer.

01:07:51.100 Oh, that's super easy.

01:07:52.300 I just gave you.

01:07:53.820 I'm 100% in favor of trans rights.

01:07:55.460 I think they should have the same exact rights, same constitutional rights.

01:07:58.480 And if you come for trans women, you're going to have to come through me, okay?

01:08:01.520 And I'm not going to let you ban them from the military.

01:08:03.520 I'm not going to let you take a single right of theirs away.

01:08:05.880 And I'm going to protect those young girls and boys in high school.

01:08:09.340 But if you say, oh, LeBron James being in the WNBA is necessary if he turns into a woman

01:08:15.300 or whatever, and that makes you transphobic, then that's your argument.

01:08:18.580 Own it.

01:08:19.200 Great.

01:08:19.700 Because that's going to make it easier for me to beat you because no one agrees with

01:08:22.920 you.

01:08:23.300 So everyone who thinks that LeBron James should, and then they'll get so mad at this analogy.

01:08:27.240 They will.

01:08:27.840 They'll be furious about this analogy.

01:08:29.700 You could load up LeBron James with every hormone on the planet.

01:08:32.680 He would score 200 points every night in the WNBA.

01:08:35.500 So if you want to say he won't, great, then let's have that debate.

01:08:38.860 And then we'll vote in the primary and see what the Democratic voters actually think.

01:08:43.440 I think that they'll agree with me and not you.

01:08:45.740 That's why we do a primary, right?

01:08:47.940 So if I have a candidate, whether it's Jon Stewart or Tim Walz or Sean O'Brien or Sean

01:08:52.980 Fenton, whoever it is, or a guy we don't even know right now, or Nina Turner,

01:08:56.880 by the way, who was an awesome, strong, progressive populist, give me that candidate and we don't

01:09:02.420 need anything else.

01:09:03.560 We just need basically escape velocity.

01:09:08.100 If we get to the same thing that Trump had, why did Trump have escape velocity?

01:09:12.320 Because he was a celebrity.

01:09:13.720 And so they said, oh, it's a celebrity.

01:09:15.340 We have to cover it.

01:09:15.900 That's why Jon Stewart's so appealing.

01:09:18.100 Okay.

01:09:18.400 Very popular, very sensible.

01:09:20.060 Like, and guys, there's a left-right spectrum and a populist establishment spectrum.

01:09:25.800 Jon is in the same, is exact right place in the left-right spectrum, in my opinion, center-left.

01:09:31.340 Not extreme left, center-left.

01:09:32.740 And on the populist establishment spectrum, perfect position, very populist, right?

01:09:37.380 So whoever matches that description, okay, that goes this way on those spectrums, and

01:09:43.540 they're strong in a debate, they're going to win.

01:09:45.540 They're going to win the election.

01:09:46.900 Then no one can say they don't represent the Democratic voters.

01:09:49.640 But do you see that jettisoning of the far left, of which we're both, it seems to me,

01:09:54.120 critical?

01:09:54.660 Do you see that happening?

01:09:55.660 Because I don't see that happening at the moment, as we're watching.

01:09:59.060 Well, if the candidate doesn't have the courage to do it, then they're not the right candidate.

01:10:02.920 Okay, you have to be able to draw a line.

01:10:04.840 If they say, hey, go out there like a schmuck and call all Latinos Latinx.

01:10:08.880 If the candidate goes, oh, okay, 96% of Latinos hate it.

01:10:12.380 Hey, everybody, I am in favor of Latinx.

01:10:14.500 Well, that's not the right guy.

01:10:15.500 That brother that can't win.

01:10:16.540 He doesn't have the courage to win.

01:10:18.420 Okay, if they said defund the police, I said no.

01:10:21.240 They called me a racist, right?

01:10:23.160 And I'm so mad at the cops.

01:10:25.100 And in fact, I wavered at one point.

01:10:27.500 Because God, stop shooting them.

01:10:29.600 You're driving me crazy.

01:10:30.780 Stop shooting them.

01:10:32.120 Okay?

01:10:32.700 And by the way, it's not just black people.

01:10:34.160 We showed a video of a white guy crawling on a hotel hallway.

01:10:37.860 That was actually the worst of the shootings.

01:10:39.980 And they shot that poor guy when he was surrendering.

01:10:42.780 How much more can he surrender?

01:10:44.660 But if you say defund the police, wait, wait, wait, wait.

01:10:47.180 We wanted to reform the police.

01:10:48.680 We didn't want to take the police away.

01:10:50.120 If your position is take the police away, you're nuts.

01:10:52.960 And you'll get slaundered in a Democratic primary, let alone a general election.

01:10:58.560 And by the way, all those Justice Democrats, the core ones that are already famous, are kind of untouchable.

01:11:05.460 Jamal Bowman and Cori Bush lost, but they weren't famous enough.

01:11:07.780 That's a longer story, bigger conversation.

01:11:10.020 But the AOCs, et cetera.

01:11:11.500 But Ilhan Omar almost lost, and not because she was too far left, and not because she was anti-Israel, not because of any of that.

01:11:18.220 Not this time around.

01:11:19.040 Last time around.

01:11:20.280 She almost lost because she was in favor of a defund the police bill in Minnesota.

01:11:24.600 And 78% of African Americans in her district were against that bill.

01:11:30.360 And it almost cost her the election.

01:11:32.440 And if you notice, all of a sudden, she's not defund the police anymore.

01:11:35.320 So that is an unpopular position in the Democratic Party with African Americans, with Latinos, et cetera.

01:11:42.380 Have the courage to run a campaign that the American people love, and you will win.

01:11:47.000 Let's see if they listen.

01:11:48.220 Cenk, we're going to head on over to Substack, where people can ask you their questions.

01:11:51.620 But before we do, the question we always wrap up with is, what's the one thing we're not talking about that we should be?

01:11:56.980 Before Cenk answers the final question, at the end of the interview, make sure to head over to our Substack.

01:12:03.040 The link is in the description.

01:12:04.940 You'll see this.

01:12:06.260 Someone says, what should Israel have done on October 8th?

01:12:09.220 How long can the old media last when they're getting found out?

01:12:12.820 Why is it that Hezbollah somehow doesn't get coded by progressives as right-wing?

01:12:18.340 So, RFK Jr. has had a lot of different policy proposals, and half of them I totally disagree with, the half that he'll wind up doing.

01:12:27.800 But a couple of them were fantastic that nobody's talking about.

01:12:31.500 One was, on housing, he's the one who originally said, ban private equity from buying residential homes.

01:12:38.180 It's driving up the prices, and he's absolutely right.

01:12:41.760 They'll buy up all the homes.

01:12:43.040 It makes economic sense.

01:12:44.600 That's how capitalism works.

01:12:46.300 The government must stop them on behalf of the American people, because they've made a logical decision.

01:12:51.020 Hey, this is the greatest wealth creation for the middle class.

01:12:53.740 Why don't we take it?

01:12:55.240 So it's our wealth creation.

01:12:56.960 And then they become our renters, and we own them.

01:12:59.520 We turn the American people into indentured servants.

01:13:01.420 So if you do, if RFK Jr. was put in charge of HUD instead of health, I would love it, right?

01:13:08.560 So that's not being talked about enough.

01:13:10.560 And my guess is, if I'm right, Trump is not a populist.

01:13:14.520 He will do everything his donors want.

01:13:16.620 They're not going to talk about that.

01:13:17.960 The private equity guys are back.

01:13:19.680 Goldman Sachs guys are back in the Trump circle, et cetera.

01:13:23.080 That's a proposal that should definitely be done.

01:13:25.120 By the way, RFK's anti-corruption plank was also excellent.

01:13:29.500 A convention where the states called a convention in the Constitution to propose an amendment,

01:13:35.200 an amendment to get big money out of politics.

01:13:37.960 Everybody talks about draining the swamp and anti-corruption, and no one ever does anything about it.

01:13:43.420 You put together that convention, supported by the right wing and the left wing,

01:13:47.660 and you actually propose an amendment to get money out of politics, that is the one amendment that can pass.

01:13:52.900 Three-quarters of the states have to say yes, they can and they will, especially if Trump bullies them.

01:13:57.960 Trump is excellent at bullying, and it could be used for political advantage.

01:14:02.760 If Trump does that, he'll be a demigod.

01:14:05.520 He will walk out of office as the most popular politician we have ever had.

01:14:11.120 But everyone around him, in my opinion, is corrupt.

01:14:14.140 And they'll tell him, no, no, no, don't do the money in politics.

01:14:16.100 Don't do an amendment.

01:14:17.180 Don't go have a convention.

01:14:18.720 Don't go to the states.

01:14:20.080 Don't do any of that because they're pigs of the trough.

01:14:22.520 If Trump is smart enough to find one person, maybe it's RFK Jr., where he brings him in and goes,

01:14:28.940 oh, my God, imagine we got money out of politics and we train the swamp.

01:14:33.060 He would be a hero of heroes.

01:14:35.660 So somebody get him that message.

01:14:38.600 Cenk, it's been an absolute pleasure.

01:14:41.440 Head on over to our substack where you get to ask your questions.

01:14:44.640 How can the left reach the deniers?

TRIGGERnometry - November 20, 2024

The Dems Need a Civil War - Cenk Uygur

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