TRIGGERnometry - ＂The Left Used to Believe in Winning People Over＂

00:00:00.680 You should be excited as a lefty that Labour are going to get back in.

00:00:04.600 Surely we've had a Conservative government for nine, what, 13, 14 years?

00:00:08.760 This should be a galvanising moment.

00:00:10.620 Yeah, I don't feel it.

00:00:12.140 Starler's great genius is he says nothing and then a week later goes back on it.

00:00:18.740 The Corbyn Project's attitude towards the media, for example, I do not think was helpful.

00:00:25.840 I think you have to try and win people round.

00:00:28.240 I think if someone's Oswald Mosley or Hitler, there's no point in trying to win them round.

00:00:34.320 But most people aren't that.

00:00:37.140 Try to sort of engage with people and look for the positive, not just go,

00:00:41.280 Ah, fucking dare you! You're a fucking good partner!

00:00:43.740 And just try to just shut the argument down and see everybody who says something

00:00:50.440 that might possibly be interpreted as bigoted as they shouldn't be allowed to say that.

00:00:57.120 I think that that doesn't help.

00:01:09.240 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry.

00:01:11.900 I'm Francis Foster.

00:01:13.100 I'm Constantine Kissin.

00:01:14.140 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:01:19.020 Our brilliant guest today is a well-known British comedian, Mark Steele.

00:01:22.100 Welcome to Trigonometry.

00:01:23.180 Hello. God, I hope I can be fascinating.

00:01:25.220 We'll find out. We'll find out. We'll see if you are.

00:01:27.620 Because when you're introduced as a comic, you think,

00:01:31.540 Oh, as long as me jokes work, I'm all right.

00:01:33.420 But fascinating.

00:01:36.200 That, by the way, is the most British comedian thing to say.

00:01:39.300 A lot of Americans are thinking, why has he got low self-esteem?

00:01:43.080 It's just what you're supposed to say if you're a British comedian.

00:01:46.080 Yes, if I was American.

00:01:47.800 Hey, too right, I'm fascinating.

00:01:49.240 Exactly. And that is what you are.

00:01:51.560 So welcome to the show. Tell us why you're fascinating.

00:01:54.120 How are you here? What has been your journey through life, Mark?

00:01:56.400 How did you get into stand-up? What's been your career since, etc.?

00:02:00.660 Wow.

00:02:01.600 I started as a stand-up in the 1980s.

00:02:05.340 The route into it was very dull.

00:02:08.560 I just looked, I just fancied doing it.

00:02:11.520 There wasn't really anything else I could do.

00:02:13.760 I tried working in an office.

00:02:14.980 I tried being a milkman.

00:02:17.280 I loved being a milkman.

00:02:20.420 Not that far from where we sit here, there was a village.

00:02:23.720 There is a village called Orton Kirby.

00:02:26.400 And I was responsible for delivering their milk every day.

00:02:29.780 And I was sacked because I was the most useless milkman in history.

00:02:35.700 But when they sacked me, the manager said,

00:02:38.440 they all like you, Mark.

00:02:39.620 They just say he's bloody useless at delivering milk.

00:02:42.360 And I was so happy.

00:02:45.220 I thought that was the greatest review.

00:02:46.940 And I was useless.

00:02:49.220 Sometimes you would, some of the milkman would get back and go,

00:02:53.040 oh, Christ, I forgot the number 21.

00:02:55.780 I would forget whole streets.

00:02:58.380 I'd get back two hours early and think, I've got all my milk.

00:03:03.420 Oh, shit.

00:03:04.220 Because my mind's just gone.

00:03:05.700 I've just drifted off.

00:03:07.800 And I would forget to deliver someone's bread

00:03:11.040 and just leave it in the back of the truck

00:03:12.920 and give it to them a week later.

00:03:14.480 And they rang up and said, the bread's green.

00:03:18.420 It's just gone rotten.

00:03:20.140 And they, oh, I had a bloody work.

00:03:21.860 It's hard not to get this done by the environmental health.

00:03:24.040 And it was just, I crashed the milk flow because I wasn't concentrating.

00:03:27.300 Anyway, I did various things like that and couldn't do any of them.

00:03:30.920 But all the while I thought, I really fancy the idea of being on stage.

00:03:35.600 And so I just sort of rang up lots of the clubs that was like, you know,

00:03:40.820 there's nothing very interesting.

00:03:41.720 I often make things up.

00:03:45.480 I did that by accident.

00:03:48.660 I did it saying I was going to make a story up once.

00:03:52.140 And I was on midweek with Libby Purvis, bless her.

00:03:58.300 And the researcher rang the day before the show.

00:04:01.040 And she said, Mark, can you sort of tell us how it is that you got started in stand-up?

00:04:05.960 You know, this young researcher will be excited.

00:04:07.380 Libby really wants to know.

00:04:08.740 And I said, but it just won't be very interesting.

00:04:10.520 She said, well, just, you know, just make, you know, if you can embellish it a bit.

00:04:14.000 I said, well, I can embellish it to the point where I'll just make it up.

00:04:17.020 So I said, well, I'll tell you what.

00:04:18.400 All right, then.

00:04:18.920 And my dad, my dad was a Polish diplomat.

00:04:23.660 And every year I used to go with him to Poland and he had to make a speech.

00:04:28.640 And it's the tradition out there that their son has to make a speech as well at Christmas.

00:04:32.680 And the only Polish I knew was these jokes.

00:04:35.080 And the jokes went down so well that I was booked up to do a regular spot

00:04:39.160 at the lunch interval in a nearby vodka factory.

00:04:42.960 And I just made that.

00:04:45.020 So the next day, live, live on Radio 4, Libby Purvis is going,

00:04:50.520 my next guest is Mark Steele.

00:04:52.680 And, well, he had rather an extraordinary introduction into the world of comedy,

00:04:57.560 didn't you, Mark?

00:04:58.240 I said, Mark's being rather modest.

00:05:03.920 His father was a Polish diplomat.

00:05:08.000 She went through and read it all out.

00:05:10.480 And so at various points, you know, years later, people go, that's amazing.

00:05:15.020 About your dad and the vodka factory.

00:05:17.540 So the sad truth is you tried lots of other jobs,

00:05:20.480 weren't very good at any of them, so you thought you'd give stand-up a go.

00:05:23.340 I think I tried every other job.

00:05:26.940 No, I could have tried every other job.

00:05:29.340 It would have been the same result.

00:05:30.760 Mining, airline pilot, hot air balloon repairman.

00:05:35.920 Oh, shit, I've let it go.

00:05:39.880 And so you start stand-up in the 80s.

00:05:42.380 What was it like back then?

00:05:43.760 Was it an exciting time to be getting into stand-up?

00:05:46.200 Did it feel like you're part of something fresh and new?

00:05:50.300 That's a brilliant question.

00:05:52.340 What did it feel like?

00:05:53.960 It's hard to say because if you look back on it,

00:05:56.420 it was quite an important little cultural moment.

00:05:59.640 Stand-up as we knew it.

00:06:00.760 Before that, stand-up was club comics.

00:06:04.720 It was people who told jokes.

00:06:07.680 I think most of them were great, actually.

00:06:11.360 We can come on to sort of some of the problems with them and so on.

00:06:14.820 But I love – in fact, right, this probably isn't very special.

00:06:19.340 I'm going to do – this is – I've been doing –

00:06:20.860 there's no better way of doing this, I don't think.

00:06:22.920 There's a bit in my show that I've been doing.

00:06:25.540 Because they – stand-ups of those times would do jokes

00:06:29.640 and then they would finish on a song.

00:06:32.600 And that was the rule.

00:06:34.340 And I've been doing an impression of it in my show.

00:06:37.120 They go – so they'd come on the telly, they'd do their jokes

00:06:40.740 and then they'd go,

00:06:41.720 Fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars.

00:06:45.400 I fell and go to the doctors.

00:06:46.360 He said, I've got a lettuce stuck up my arse.

00:06:47.900 The doctor has a feel about it.

00:06:48.880 He said, I've got bad news.

00:06:49.700 It's only the tip of the iceberg.

00:06:51.300 Let me know what spring is like in Jupiter and Mars.

00:06:55.400 And so I thought, this looks great.

00:07:01.920 And then stand-up changed and you had this sort of very, very –

00:07:07.560 quite a big cultural shift really in stand-up being something

00:07:12.040 that was different.

00:07:12.860 It was people writing their own material,

00:07:15.560 not just telling standard jokes about two Jews in a pub or whatever,

00:07:20.320 but their own stuff and their own experiences or doing characters.

00:07:25.560 And it was like Rick Mayle and Alexi Tale.

00:07:28.040 And if you did the clubs, there'd be – in those days,

00:07:31.520 there'd be these crazy acts.

00:07:34.340 There was a bloke who melted ice.

00:07:36.640 The Iceman.

00:07:37.760 The Iceman.

00:07:40.460 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:07:41.340 He was a legend on the circuit, but carry on.

00:07:43.300 No, I just remember that.

00:07:44.620 Someone telling me, I was like, oh, you're the Iceman.

00:07:46.160 Now, the thing is, there is a myth that is told so often

00:07:53.480 about the comedy circuit of those days,

00:07:55.760 which is that what drove it was politics

00:07:58.760 and a sort of it was part of the anti-Thatcher world.

00:08:02.680 Now, it did sort of dovetail with that a bit

00:08:07.240 and part of it was a rejection of a lot of the sort of racist jokes

00:08:13.300 and so on of the 70s.

00:08:16.220 But that wasn't what drove it.

00:08:17.800 What drove it was that it was this different sort of cabaret-type act.

00:08:23.080 And so there might be one act that did something political

00:08:26.580 out of four in a night in 1984 in Camden or something,

00:08:30.980 but that would literally be all it was.

00:08:33.020 Or there'd be a poet, but they'd just be bonkers.

00:08:36.480 They'd just do some crazy bonkers thing

00:08:38.960 or someone would come in and start throwing lettuces at people

00:08:41.160 or something, it was just bonkers and exciting.

00:08:46.120 And, of course, now the question, was it exciting at the time?

00:08:50.120 Of course, you didn't, we didn't know we were at the middle of something

00:08:54.680 that you would look back on and go, oh, that was a brilliant cultural shift.

00:08:58.580 I don't know, did Beethoven, was Beethoven aware

00:09:01.480 that he was at the beginning of a massive cultural shift

00:09:05.420 of romantic music is against the sort of royal court minuets or whatever.

00:09:10.800 Was he aware of it?

00:09:12.060 He probably was.

00:09:12.980 But I bet there were probably loads of people that weren't, you know,

00:09:16.860 at the time or any musical.

00:09:18.540 Maybe, I suppose, in the early days of hip-hop or something

00:09:21.860 or any, you know, maybe, maybe were people aware of it.

00:09:27.400 It's only when you look back on it and go, wow, that,

00:09:32.560 oh, that was great to be at the start of that.

00:09:37.260 I hope that it's, I hope the history of it's written accurately

00:09:41.340 at some point because it was one of the, my favourite acts of the time.

00:09:46.760 And when comics of my vintage get together,

00:09:49.660 we'd always talk about these people.

00:09:51.220 There was a guy, you know, this is why it's so frustrating

00:09:53.280 when you sort of see, oh, it was all about being about

00:09:56.380 anti-Thatcher and anti-Tibbit.

00:09:58.620 One of the greatest acts on the circuit was a guy called

00:10:01.320 Randolph the Remarkable, right?

00:10:03.840 And he was this very camp man.

00:10:06.660 And his whole act, just with sheer charisma,

00:10:10.080 he would take 20 minutes to do this.

00:10:12.520 He would take off his shirt, revealing quite a girth.

00:10:15.400 And he would get a washing up bowl and put it on the floor

00:10:18.980 and he would announce that he was going to pick up

00:10:22.360 the washing up bowl with his stomach.

00:10:25.080 And then the great sort of finale was that he would bend over to do this.

00:10:30.420 And the thing that I always remember was that, of course,

00:10:32.860 people would be tittering and he'd stand up and say,

00:10:36.080 stop it.

00:10:38.160 I cannot achieve maximum suction without total silence.

00:10:45.400 And it was fucking mad, but wonderful.

00:10:50.060 And probably not that different from something you might have seen

00:10:54.520 in the musical, I guess, in the 30s or the 50s, I guess.

00:10:58.260 But it was just in these little pubs and clubs.

00:11:02.100 And then the store, the comedy store, which I think was a really important,

00:11:07.140 culturally a pretty important little place, you know,

00:11:09.880 a bit of the equivalent of CBGBs in the punk, you know,

00:11:13.040 in New York or whatever.

00:11:15.040 It was a really, really important little place.

00:11:17.620 So it was really, really looking.

00:11:20.320 It's more exciting looking back on it than maybe at the time.

00:11:23.900 And, of course, at the time,

00:11:26.040 of course, what you're thinking most of the time is I'm bloody skinked

00:11:28.840 and I was living in a squat and then a council flat.

00:11:32.860 And it was, and you just think,

00:11:35.280 I wish I could earn a bit of money, really,

00:11:38.340 rather than thinking, oh, I am at the heart

00:11:41.880 of an innovative cultural movement.

00:11:45.120 I wasn't thinking that any more than Mozart might have been

00:11:49.220 as he was carking it before he was chucked in a rotten old grave.

00:11:55.160 But, yeah, it was, so, but looking back on it,

00:11:58.440 yeah, it was really, really exciting, yeah.

00:12:01.140 We have a tendency to do that, don't we?

00:12:03.160 We've all cultural moments, Mark, whether it's the punks,

00:12:05.820 whether it's, you know, the new romantics,

00:12:08.540 you know, all of these musical moments, Elvis, rock and roll,

00:12:13.120 where we go, but where we look back at it,

00:12:14.840 and particularly if we haven't lived through it,

00:12:16.240 we go, that must have been so exciting.

00:12:19.220 Well, it must have been, mustn't it?

00:12:20.680 Amazing.

00:12:21.380 I mean, yeah, imagine being at one of Little Richard's first gigs

00:12:25.020 or something, the excitement of that.

00:12:27.260 I mean, I remember on the downside of it,

00:12:29.840 this is one moment I remember, and I, was this fun?

00:12:35.200 So I remember going to Newcastle,

00:12:37.580 and there's two blokes around this club,

00:12:44.320 and one of them goes,

00:12:45.880 you'll be steering with me tonight, Leek.

00:12:47.520 I said, all right, and then on the way back,

00:12:51.400 walking around there, I can't remember where it was,

00:12:52.940 in Newcastle, him and his mate went,

00:12:56.160 I suppose, I have to tell you before we get round there, Leek,

00:12:59.260 there's that, Leek, my girlfriend, Leek,

00:13:02.640 she's just left me, and she's took all the stuff,

00:13:05.320 and there's, Leek, nothing there.

00:13:07.980 I said, I don't want much.

00:13:09.520 He said, well, there's just nothing, Leek,

00:13:10.820 she's out of the furniture with hoes,

00:13:12.180 and she's just taking it, ah, Leek,

00:13:14.000 and I was just, all right.

00:13:17.440 And we got in there, and it was just a bear,

00:13:20.680 there was no furniture, nothing,

00:13:23.040 and it was freezing, absolutely freezing.

00:13:26.640 And he said, ah, Leek, if you've got a court or something,

00:13:30.800 I didn't need help, Leek,

00:13:31.740 and I was just supposed to sleep in the corner

00:13:33.800 in this bare room,

00:13:35.200 and then he went and got some wood

00:13:39.420 from out in this backyard and brought it in,

00:13:43.360 and I said, what are you doing?

00:13:44.260 He said, well, I thought, Leek,

00:13:45.960 I mean, sort of fear.

00:13:48.320 And I went, what, indoors?

00:13:51.040 You fucking madman,

00:13:52.600 are you going to start a fire?

00:13:53.840 Well, that's fucking freezing, Leek.

00:13:56.740 And I thought, this is just mental.

00:13:58.660 And I just walked around Newcastle all night

00:14:03.560 until the first train come at, like, six in the morning,

00:14:06.720 which was, you know,

00:14:07.920 because I thought there was many ways

00:14:10.840 I might die in this house.

00:14:13.600 Burnt to death, freezing to death.

00:14:16.380 And I don't know,

00:14:18.520 it seems funny looking back on it,

00:14:20.300 but I wasn't.

00:14:23.200 No, I don't.

00:14:24.920 No, it's not good to be in that.

00:14:26.680 I didn't enjoy that at the time.

00:14:29.300 No, I can't imagine you did, Mark.

00:14:30.840 But whenever anyone mentions your name,

00:14:32.740 they always say, obviously, comedian,

00:14:34.680 but it's prefaced with two words,

00:14:36.800 which is left-wing comedian.

00:14:38.640 You're identified very much by your politics,

00:14:41.020 like you're a left-wing comedian,

00:14:42.780 you're a member of the Socialist Workers' Party.

00:14:45.660 Yeah, that probably didn't help, did it?

00:14:47.140 Before we go, before we delve further into that,

00:14:52.980 do you still identify as being left-wing

00:14:55.220 and what does that mean to you now?

00:14:58.080 I've never really been a big fan of the phrase,

00:15:02.600 the left, because it makes it,

00:15:04.980 to me, it makes it sound like a club.

00:15:07.180 And it makes it sound as like

00:15:12.440 it's something you're either part of or you're not.

00:15:15.360 And I think that that goes against the very notion

00:15:19.520 of what anyone who would be part of the left,

00:15:25.420 if it exists, should want to do,

00:15:27.400 which is to find ways of communicating with

00:15:30.780 and engaging with and winning over

00:15:33.180 people who aren't in the left.

00:15:37.680 And I think when I became,

00:15:40.620 I would definitely still say I'm a socialist,

00:15:42.240 I wouldn't hesitate to say that,

00:15:43.680 but I think that when I'd first become a socialist,

00:15:47.380 and there were lots of, you know,

00:15:48.940 it would be very, very easy to be very disdainful

00:15:54.320 towards the far left and their, you know,

00:15:58.200 some of their less, some of their more eccentric ways.

00:16:06.340 But when I first sort of engaged with them,

00:16:11.240 it was in the late 1970s,

00:16:13.680 what I loved about them,

00:16:15.340 there was a sense of humour about them,

00:16:17.820 there was a sense of wanting to engage

00:16:20.820 with everybody about them.

00:16:22.380 And I still, I think I still retain that.

00:16:27.320 But so when someone,

00:16:30.540 because a lot of the people in the socialist works part,

00:16:34.320 when I met them,

00:16:35.200 they were people who were from

00:16:37.100 very, very working class backgrounds,

00:16:39.260 and they were members of the trade union movement.

00:16:41.420 Quite a lot of them would be teachers

00:16:42.820 and people like that,

00:16:44.240 which I would say is very much a working class job.

00:16:48.260 But quite a lot of them were van drivers

00:16:50.740 and worked in factories and bus drivers

00:16:52.680 and stuff like that,

00:16:53.320 worked in hospitals and so on.

00:16:54.440 And they would talk all the time

00:16:56.540 about how they would try to win people over,

00:16:59.060 not in a manipulative way,

00:17:00.420 but, and they'd have mates

00:17:01.740 and they'd go out in all the sort of social events

00:17:05.620 and so on.

00:17:06.300 And they'd be like,

00:17:07.000 they'd say, you've got to be liked,

00:17:08.280 you've got to be,

00:17:09.000 you've got to do your job well.

00:17:10.400 I remember learning that.

00:17:11.520 It's one of the people,

00:17:12.080 if you want to be,

00:17:13.240 if you want to have any influence with your workmates,

00:17:15.280 you've got to do your job well.

00:17:16.620 It's no good turning up late

00:17:17.920 and people have to cover for you

00:17:19.380 and all that sort of thing.

00:17:20.320 And then start telling them about the Spanish Civil War.

00:17:24.040 They'll just think,

00:17:24.940 well, you, you wanker,

00:17:25.820 you can't even,

00:17:26.380 I'm not listening to you about the bloody Darutty column.

00:17:28.580 You can't even bloody turn up to fucking work on time.

00:17:31.160 So there was a whole,

00:17:33.900 I sort of learned that early on,

00:17:35.820 that you've got to try and win people over, really.

00:17:39.000 And that means you've got to be pleasant.

00:17:40.520 You've got to listen to people.

00:17:42.040 That, for example,

00:17:43.220 when it comes to dealing with racism, right?

00:17:48.340 So this is something that lots of people

00:17:50.600 would talk to me about who are older and so on.

00:17:53.000 And they go in a workplace,

00:17:54.600 you've got to,

00:17:55.220 you've got to, in your mind,

00:17:57.060 think, who is the hardline racist?

00:18:00.560 And there aren't many of those.

00:18:02.420 You know, the people,

00:18:03.160 in those days,

00:18:04.000 it would be NF supporters,

00:18:05.760 National Front supporters,

00:18:06.900 who were fascists,

00:18:07.860 who were run by people

00:18:10.280 who celebrated Hitler's birthday.

00:18:12.340 Literally those people.

00:18:14.940 Now, the number of,

00:18:16.100 in a normal workplace,

00:18:18.180 there might be one or two of them.

00:18:20.020 There's not going to be many.

00:18:21.000 And then you'll have other people

00:18:22.120 who had ideas that you could say were racist.

00:18:24.720 Or they go,

00:18:25.180 oh yeah, no, I'll tell you what,

00:18:26.240 they do do most of the muggings

00:18:28.260 or something like that.

00:18:29.380 But those are people

00:18:30.320 you take a different attitude to.

00:18:31.800 You go, they're not bad people.

00:18:33.780 You understand where they're coming from,

00:18:35.740 why they're thinking that,

00:18:37.200 what makes them angry in the first place.

00:18:39.280 Just try to put the facts to them

00:18:42.160 that they're blaming the wrong people

00:18:44.520 and so on.

00:18:46.020 Some of the nonsense

00:18:47.840 and ridiculous claims that are made

00:18:50.220 about how immigrants take all the jobs

00:18:52.320 or so on.

00:18:53.380 Just gently talk to people

00:18:56.160 and get on with them.

00:18:57.020 And I think that a great many people

00:19:01.900 who consider themselves the left now,

00:19:05.620 they don't seem to follow

00:19:08.660 that same sort of method.

00:19:12.160 I think part of it is social media

00:19:14.240 because it's much, much easier

00:19:16.360 on social media

00:19:17.620 to just call someone an arse,

00:19:19.960 oh, wanker,

00:19:20.680 you said the wrong thing about this,

00:19:22.440 that, that.

00:19:22.900 And rather than trying to also,

00:19:25.260 similarly,

00:19:26.960 or probably a slightly different point,

00:19:28.880 but sort of coming from the same place,

00:19:31.540 you would try and find

00:19:32.860 where you have a connection with someone.

00:19:35.360 So that's what I would try and do.

00:19:37.200 Failed miserably,

00:19:37.960 I was actually useless.

00:19:38.760 But you try to find a connection with someone.

00:19:42.120 So you meet someone,

00:19:43.480 they might be back,

00:19:44.560 you know,

00:19:44.740 say this is in 1982,

00:19:46.840 they might be someone who,

00:19:48.980 as a,

00:19:50.040 well, for example,

00:19:51.020 they might be someone

00:19:51.740 who is very anti-racist,

00:19:53.420 but they might be,

00:19:55.000 they might be very anti-gay,

00:19:57.300 for example.

00:19:57.660 That would be quite common

00:19:58.980 to find someone like that.

00:20:00.240 So you go, right, okay,

00:20:01.280 well, we'll take,

00:20:02.320 we'll start from the positive

00:20:03.420 and then you would try

00:20:05.160 and find a way of saying,

00:20:07.020 well, wait, mate,

00:20:07.740 you know, you're saying this

00:20:08.860 about gay people,

00:20:10.120 but you're believing

00:20:10.940 the same newspapers

00:20:12.060 that would say that

00:20:13.040 about black people.

00:20:15.240 So you would try to sort of

00:20:16.480 engage with people

00:20:17.500 and look for the positive,

00:20:18.740 not just go,

00:20:19.780 ah, fucking damn you,

00:20:21.060 you're a fucking good boss,

00:20:22.220 and just try to just

00:20:23.940 shut the argument down

00:20:26.420 and see everybody

00:20:27.980 who says something

00:20:28.920 that might possibly be interpreted

00:20:31.120 as bigoted

00:20:32.360 as they shouldn't be allowed

00:20:35.020 to say that.

00:20:35.660 I think that that

00:20:36.800 doesn't help.

00:20:38.100 Anyway, that's a very long,

00:20:40.400 last time we were talking,

00:20:42.540 Francis,

00:20:43.040 we were talking about ADHD

00:20:44.140 and I've never been diagnosed

00:20:46.320 with ADHD,

00:20:47.020 but sometimes I wonder.

00:20:48.480 I hear my diagnosis

00:20:50.200 with ADHD, Mark.

00:20:52.520 I'm not a professional.

00:20:54.060 What was the question?

00:20:54.960 The question was,

00:20:56.260 could you pass me the salt?

00:20:58.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:00.140 Anyway,

00:21:00.340 although it would be

00:21:04.480 very,

00:21:05.060 very,

00:21:05.420 very easy,

00:21:06.920 and I have done this

00:21:08.020 to take the piss out of people

00:21:09.240 who consider themselves

00:21:10.300 the left,

00:21:11.060 especially the far left,

00:21:12.560 I think that there were

00:21:13.820 lots of things

00:21:14.820 at the time

00:21:15.520 in the people

00:21:16.740 that I came across

00:21:17.780 who were,

00:21:19.060 who I think

00:21:21.080 I learnt a lot from

00:21:22.400 in terms of just being able

00:21:23.540 to engage with people.

00:21:25.160 And certainly as a comic,

00:21:26.400 I mean,

00:21:26.580 if you sort of go out there

00:21:27.680 and just call everyone

00:21:28.920 an arsehole

00:21:29.580 who doesn't agree with you,

00:21:30.680 then you're limiting

00:21:32.720 your audience,

00:21:33.580 aren't you?

00:21:34.220 And one other thing

00:21:36.100 on that

00:21:36.940 is

00:21:38.340 that the Socialist Workers' Party,

00:21:41.280 and like I say,

00:21:42.460 you know,

00:21:43.100 I can and would

00:21:44.740 happily go through

00:21:46.140 much of the madness,

00:21:48.360 but

00:21:48.860 one thing that was brilliant

00:21:50.720 that they did

00:21:51.800 was that they had,

00:21:53.900 their starting point

00:21:55.520 was that

00:21:56.960 this mattered

00:21:59.020 so much at the time

00:22:00.340 that

00:22:01.220 the Soviet Union

00:22:02.680 is not in any way

00:22:04.340 a socialist country.

00:22:06.100 Now,

00:22:06.320 if you're sort of 30 now,

00:22:07.900 you might think,

00:22:08.700 why would you get obsessed

00:22:09.860 with a question like that?

00:22:11.900 What does it matter?

00:22:12.620 But at the time,

00:22:14.380 to me,

00:22:14.980 that was absolutely central

00:22:16.800 because

00:22:17.540 I thought

00:22:18.800 I like the idea

00:22:20.400 of a sort of

00:22:21.160 fairer,

00:22:21.780 more equal society,

00:22:23.700 but

00:22:24.180 there is a place

00:22:25.320 that calls itself

00:22:26.200 socialist

00:22:26.700 and it is clearly

00:22:28.520 the most barbaric,

00:22:30.260 appalling,

00:22:31.080 despicable tyranny.

00:22:33.240 And that,

00:22:34.020 that's just a,

00:22:35.900 that's quite a barrier.

00:22:37.580 And so...

00:22:38.520 But there's a lot

00:22:39.220 of lefties, Mark,

00:22:40.120 who at that time

00:22:41.220 would be pro-Soviet Union.

00:22:42.800 Oh,

00:22:43.180 mostly they would be.

00:22:44.700 Mostly.

00:22:45.520 I mean,

00:22:45.880 yeah,

00:22:46.680 the Socialist Workers' Party

00:22:47.540 was in a minority

00:22:48.340 in many ways,

00:22:49.220 but particularly

00:22:49.760 on that issue

00:22:51.000 because

00:22:51.480 you would,

00:22:52.680 I mean,

00:22:52.880 I remember going to

00:22:53.660 the Labour Club,

00:22:54.600 you know,

00:22:54.840 I used to go to

00:22:55.460 in Croydon

00:22:56.120 and a load of them

00:22:57.300 went,

00:22:57.780 and bless them,

00:22:58.440 they were,

00:22:58.680 I think they were

00:22:59.240 sweet,

00:22:59.780 well-meaning people,

00:23:00.520 but,

00:23:00.900 and they went on a,

00:23:01.920 a tour of,

00:23:04.060 uh,

00:23:04.700 Eastern,

00:23:06.240 East Germany.

00:23:07.360 I remember them

00:23:08.240 coming back

00:23:08.980 and they were so excited

00:23:10.740 and they were going,

00:23:11.300 the workers are treated

00:23:12.540 so well,

00:23:13.320 we got,

00:23:13.820 give them a tour

00:23:14.520 of the town hall,

00:23:15.740 you should see

00:23:16.580 the beautiful building.

00:23:18.300 And I go,

00:23:18.760 well,

00:23:18.840 you could go to

00:23:19.360 the town hall

00:23:20.000 in,

00:23:20.300 even Croydon,

00:23:21.480 which is not a place

00:23:22.380 over,

00:23:23.840 in which beautiful

00:23:24.880 buildings are in abundance.

00:23:26.300 Even the town hall,

00:23:27.360 no,

00:23:27.560 that's Tabernard House,

00:23:28.320 that was shit.

00:23:29.100 But you could go

00:23:30.020 anywhere,

00:23:30.660 couldn't you,

00:23:31.120 and go,

00:23:31.740 Nottingham,

00:23:32.660 you know,

00:23:33.000 look at the beautiful

00:23:33.940 buildings,

00:23:34.500 therefore Nottingham

00:23:35.140 is so,

00:23:35.520 they're just bollocks.

00:23:36.420 But if you're

00:23:37.260 in that mindset,

00:23:38.980 but the workers

00:23:40.000 are treated so well,

00:23:41.060 we were shown,

00:23:41.660 of course you were,

00:23:42.780 they showed you

00:23:43.920 the fucking,

00:23:45.460 but oh look,

00:23:46.040 they're all in the canteen,

00:23:47.300 happy.

00:23:48.640 It's because the first time

00:23:49.660 in a week

00:23:50.040 they were getting some food,

00:23:51.320 yeah.

00:23:52.140 Yeah,

00:23:52.480 yeah,

00:23:52.540 of course,

00:23:53.200 of course.

00:23:54.080 And I used to do,

00:23:55.860 oh God,

00:23:56.360 see if I can remember it.

00:23:57.660 It was a joke that,

00:23:59.600 how did it go?

00:24:00.500 It went,

00:24:01.460 yeah,

00:24:02.300 it puzzled me

00:24:03.720 that if,

00:24:06.320 if,

00:24:07.000 it was such a wonderful

00:24:09.800 society,

00:24:11.180 why did they have

00:24:13.280 to build

00:24:14.000 a 200 foot

00:24:16.740 high wall

00:24:17.540 covered in barbed wire

00:24:19.080 with snipers

00:24:20.860 stationed across it

00:24:21.900 to keep people in?

00:24:23.380 If you had a party

00:24:24.980 one night

00:24:25.600 and the only way

00:24:26.460 you could keep people there

00:24:28.100 was to build

00:24:28.900 a 200 foot wall

00:24:30.240 around it

00:24:30.860 with barbed wire

00:24:31.940 and snipers across it,

00:24:33.220 and even then

00:24:34.260 some people

00:24:34.880 at the party

00:24:35.460 tried to escape

00:24:36.480 in a hot air balloon,

00:24:38.160 you wouldn't go,

00:24:38.780 well that was

00:24:39.340 a successful evening.

00:24:41.280 So that was,

00:24:42.660 I was,

00:24:43.860 and that

00:24:44.540 I haven't changed

00:24:46.160 my mind on

00:24:46.960 at all.

00:24:48.260 I think

00:24:48.600 the Soviet Union

00:24:49.600 and all those

00:24:50.360 other countries,

00:24:52.080 East Germany,

00:24:52.960 Hungary,

00:24:53.300 whatever,

00:24:55.680 were,

00:24:57.920 they weren't

00:24:58.580 socialists

00:24:59.240 but they were

00:25:00.460 appalling tyrannies

00:25:01.860 that deserved

00:25:02.360 to be dismantled

00:25:04.260 completely.

00:25:07.000 And Mark,

00:25:07.720 so your interest

00:25:08.640 in the left

00:25:09.760 sounds to me

00:25:10.540 like came through

00:25:11.440 a concern

00:25:12.640 for the ordinary person.

00:25:14.000 Was that fair to say?

00:25:15.320 The work,

00:25:16.640 et cetera.

00:25:17.360 Was that your

00:25:18.700 kind of intellectual

00:25:19.480 entry into it

00:25:20.360 or was it something else?

00:25:21.480 Yeah, I think it was

00:25:21.780 as simple as that.

00:25:22.440 Yeah, I think it was.

00:25:24.000 I think it was just

00:25:25.040 it's not,

00:25:26.200 it's not fair.

00:25:28.740 Yeah, I mean my,

00:25:30.500 yeah, I think that,

00:25:32.180 I think that anything

00:25:33.320 that's,

00:25:35.180 any sort of political

00:25:36.480 philosophy that you,

00:25:39.140 that you,

00:25:39.760 you adopt

00:25:40.580 that doesn't come

00:25:42.420 from something

00:25:43.120 in the gut,

00:25:45.400 I think I wouldn't

00:25:46.680 trust.

00:25:47.800 You know,

00:25:48.040 because I think you,

00:25:49.040 it's absolutely,

00:25:49.900 absolutely intellectualise it,

00:25:51.740 absolutely go away

00:25:52.820 and get fascinated

00:25:53.660 and read a load

00:25:55.040 of books.

00:25:55.460 For example,

00:25:56.380 I found,

00:25:57.000 you know,

00:25:57.180 I remember,

00:25:57.560 I remember

00:25:58.560 for the first time

00:25:59.600 hearing that

00:26:00.760 the British

00:26:01.700 had done terrible

00:26:02.640 things in Ireland

00:26:03.520 and thinking,

00:26:04.940 wow,

00:26:05.380 I didn't know this.

00:26:07.400 Oh,

00:26:07.920 and so I just got

00:26:09.140 obsessed with reading

00:26:10.200 loads of books

00:26:10.780 about Ireland

00:26:11.420 and become all a bit

00:26:12.320 stupid and crazy

00:26:13.720 and listening to silly

00:26:14.740 Irish songs and things.

00:26:16.280 But,

00:26:17.160 I do one in my show

00:26:18.760 actually,

00:26:19.500 yeah,

00:26:20.000 a Republican song,

00:26:21.400 anyway,

00:26:21.640 mad,

00:26:22.060 you know,

00:26:22.320 all that.

00:26:22.580 But,

00:26:23.120 you get,

00:26:23.560 you know,

00:26:23.720 I was 18

00:26:24.400 in my defence

00:26:25.080 and it was all very,

00:26:29.040 but it came from a sort

00:26:31.320 of feeling in me gut

00:26:33.120 and then you intellect,

00:26:34.180 you want to,

00:26:34.900 you want to go and read

00:26:36.360 the books,

00:26:37.040 I suppose,

00:26:37.740 that back up your instinct.

00:26:39.120 I suppose that's what you do,

00:26:40.600 isn't it?

00:26:42.140 And I wouldn't trust anything

00:26:44.880 that came,

00:26:46.100 I don't think anyone's become

00:26:47.700 a socialist,

00:26:48.440 but I don't think anyone's

00:26:49.260 become any sort of political,

00:26:51.580 adopted any sort of

00:26:52.880 political philosophy,

00:26:53.860 have they,

00:26:54.120 because they've read

00:26:55.420 a series of books

00:26:56.340 and gone,

00:26:56.780 I wonder which one

00:26:58.280 is the one that

00:27:00.360 seems to make the most sense.

00:27:02.480 I think you,

00:27:03.300 you read the book that,

00:27:05.800 reading a book can make

00:27:07.480 an enormous amount of sense

00:27:08.620 but because it,

00:27:09.640 but because it connects

00:27:11.180 with a feeling

00:27:12.180 that you have

00:27:13.420 anyway.

00:27:15.700 Hmm,

00:27:16.200 I know exactly what you mean.

00:27:17.800 I don't think those two things

00:27:19.200 are incompatible though.

00:27:20.220 So for example,

00:27:21.400 there is my favorite

00:27:23.080 sort of philosopher

00:27:24.040 and he's an economist

00:27:25.320 in many things,

00:27:25.960 there's a guy called

00:27:26.360 Thomas Sowell.

00:27:27.560 Now,

00:27:27.900 he's probably,

00:27:28.680 he's an American,

00:27:30.620 still alive,

00:27:31.440 he's quite old now

00:27:32.460 and he wrote

00:27:35.200 a series of books

00:27:36.440 that he was able

00:27:38.680 to write

00:27:39.200 to some extent,

00:27:41.260 he wasn't able

00:27:42.300 to write them

00:27:42.780 because he's black

00:27:43.540 but they were able

00:27:45.240 to get the level

00:27:46.160 of attention

00:27:46.680 that they got

00:27:47.460 because he was able

00:27:49.040 to say it

00:27:49.680 and not be accused

00:27:50.620 of being racist

00:27:51.580 or discriminatory

00:27:52.520 or whatever.

00:27:53.060 They got more resonance

00:27:54.100 and when I read

00:27:55.100 his stuff,

00:27:56.240 even when I sort of

00:27:57.560 in my old,

00:27:58.360 in my days

00:27:58.980 where I probably

00:27:59.580 would have considered

00:28:00.280 myself somewhere

00:28:01.000 on the left,

00:28:02.040 reading things like that

00:28:03.100 where I was like,

00:28:03.620 wait,

00:28:03.860 this makes way more sense

00:28:05.120 than the stuff

00:28:05.560 I've been told to date.

00:28:07.080 Right.

00:28:08.500 That's where you start

00:28:09.540 to change your mind.

00:28:10.500 When you're given

00:28:11.500 an explanation

00:28:12.260 for what you observe

00:28:13.220 in the world

00:28:13.920 that seems to be

00:28:15.600 more accurate

00:28:16.160 than the one

00:28:16.680 you had prior

00:28:17.180 to that.

00:28:17.860 Do you see

00:28:18.080 what I mean?

00:28:18.540 Yeah,

00:28:18.720 yeah,

00:28:18.860 yeah,

00:28:19.060 yeah,

00:28:19.280 yes,

00:28:19.840 absolutely.

00:28:20.620 But it has to connect

00:28:21.520 with something

00:28:22.120 that's,

00:28:22.660 so I think

00:28:23.360 if you've got

00:28:23.820 a sense of unease,

00:28:25.500 I suppose especially

00:28:26.480 if you've got

00:28:26.940 a sense of unease

00:28:27.960 about the ideas

00:28:29.980 that are the dominant

00:28:30.900 ideas in a society

00:28:32.980 and then you read

00:28:35.160 something,

00:28:36.400 wow,

00:28:36.780 you know,

00:28:36.960 like the impact

00:28:37.720 that say early

00:28:38.760 feminist writing

00:28:39.620 would have had,

00:28:40.500 well not early

00:28:41.080 feminist writing

00:28:41.500 because that goes

00:28:41.800 back to the 1790s

00:28:43.560 but say in the 60s

00:28:45.720 and the first time

00:28:46.940 you had largely

00:28:47.900 middle class women

00:28:48.780 but writing about

00:28:49.920 the plight of being

00:28:52.400 a woman in America,

00:28:55.100 say,

00:28:55.700 and if you were

00:28:56.720 a woman reading

00:28:57.980 that for the first time

00:28:59.200 then the impact

00:29:00.680 must have been enormous.

00:29:01.600 Wow,

00:29:02.600 yes,

00:29:02.860 I do feel that.

00:29:03.980 I do feel

00:29:04.600 completely misunderstood.

00:29:06.960 I do feel

00:29:07.540 as if my life

00:29:08.260 is just a pointless

00:29:09.300 series of drudgery

00:29:11.000 or whatever,

00:29:12.160 you know,

00:29:12.400 whatever,

00:29:12.720 I don't know what they,

00:29:13.440 not up to me

00:29:14.040 to say what they felt

00:29:14.640 but that,

00:29:15.020 but that.

00:29:16.100 And as you did,

00:29:19.600 I think it connects

00:29:21.620 with something

00:29:22.300 that is in your gut

00:29:24.040 at the time.

00:29:25.020 I had a sort of

00:29:25.820 deep sense of injustice.

00:29:28.060 I don't know,

00:29:29.760 I was very angry,

00:29:31.080 I was very,

00:29:31.900 very angry

00:29:32.380 and I suppose

00:29:33.160 at the time

00:29:35.800 if someone had said,

00:29:36.700 oh,

00:29:36.840 well,

00:29:36.980 you're probably

00:29:37.520 a very angry person

00:29:38.660 because you've got

00:29:39.320 a load of anger issues

00:29:40.380 deep down,

00:29:41.120 blah,

00:29:41.340 blah,

00:29:41.560 blah,

00:29:41.940 I'd have gone,

00:29:42.680 fuck off,

00:29:43.500 no I'm not,

00:29:44.400 right,

00:29:44.860 because I'm fucking out there

00:29:46.240 and you say that,

00:29:47.020 I'm fucking angry

00:29:47.840 because there are

00:29:48.340 a fucking million

00:29:48.980 to people in Africa

00:29:49.740 starving when there's

00:29:50.620 enough food in the world

00:29:51.440 to fucking feed them

00:29:52.240 but the capitalist system

00:29:53.140 doesn't feed them.

00:29:54.020 But now I think,

00:29:55.220 no,

00:29:55.400 but I probably was,

00:29:56.340 that's true,

00:29:57.040 but I probably was

00:29:58.180 angry as well

00:29:59.400 because I was 16

00:30:01.200 and not allowed

00:30:01.800 to go in the pub

00:30:02.580 and that gave me

00:30:03.280 a huge sense of injustice.

00:30:05.240 Yeah,

00:30:05.720 and how much

00:30:06.460 of your political

00:30:07.240 leanings,

00:30:09.320 the way that you see

00:30:09.980 the world

00:30:10.300 was informed

00:30:11.000 by how you grew up,

00:30:12.920 where you grew up,

00:30:13.620 the fact that you grew up

00:30:14.540 under the shadow

00:30:15.120 of Thatcher

00:30:15.700 and you know,

00:30:16.580 there'll be lots of people

00:30:17.440 who say

00:30:17.780 what Thatcher did

00:30:19.700 for this country

00:30:20.360 was necessary,

00:30:21.600 it had to be done

00:30:22.460 but there was also

00:30:23.080 a lot of people

00:30:23.760 who suffered

00:30:24.380 under her policies.

00:30:26.360 So where do you stand

00:30:27.220 on all of that, Mark?

00:30:28.100 And was that

00:30:29.180 like a really important

00:30:30.960 part in your...

00:30:31.780 Well,

00:30:32.200 I'm a little bit

00:30:33.740 older than that

00:30:34.660 so I was,

00:30:37.540 well,

00:30:37.820 whatever brought up means,

00:30:39.160 I don't know what age

00:30:39.920 you're brought up

00:30:40.700 but when I was young,

00:30:43.180 when I was 10,

00:30:44.180 I was 10 in 1970

00:30:45.460 and one of the things

00:30:47.360 that I think

00:30:48.000 must have landed

00:30:48.860 in my head

00:30:49.620 without us realised

00:30:50.520 because we grow up

00:30:51.300 thinking that we're

00:30:52.180 we're just completely

00:30:53.620 in control

00:30:54.400 of our philosophy,

00:30:56.480 don't we?

00:30:56.840 But we're not,

00:30:57.660 we're all created

00:30:59.820 by the times

00:31:01.620 in which we live.

00:31:04.340 You know,

00:31:04.740 you don't realise it

00:31:06.300 at the time,

00:31:06.980 you know,

00:31:07.200 there were no atheists

00:31:08.200 as we know it

00:31:10.060 in 1300

00:31:10.940 because it wasn't

00:31:11.940 really possible

00:31:12.840 to think in that way

00:31:14.160 or what have you

00:31:15.140 and so,

00:31:16.140 and in the early 1970s,

00:31:20.800 everything around you

00:31:23.340 told you

00:31:24.200 that working class people

00:31:26.100 had a little bit

00:31:29.060 of power,

00:31:30.880 collective power.

00:31:33.560 You know,

00:31:34.020 now,

00:31:34.360 the most obviously,

00:31:35.640 the miners went

00:31:36.320 on strike in 1972

00:31:37.620 and the,

00:31:41.760 and they won

00:31:43.320 and so there was

00:31:44.580 a sense of like

00:31:45.500 the miners

00:31:46.440 and there was

00:31:46.820 an enormous amount

00:31:47.900 of miners

00:31:48.380 even at the start

00:31:49.160 of the 1984 strike

00:31:50.180 there was 180,000 miners,

00:31:51.660 a million miners

00:31:52.540 in 1920,

00:31:55.880 I think,

00:31:56.280 in this country

00:31:56.780 because the population

00:31:57.520 was 40 million,

00:31:58.940 a million miners.

00:32:00.400 You think if you had

00:32:01.140 all the families

00:32:01.860 and so on

00:32:02.460 and so,

00:32:03.760 it was much less

00:32:04.540 than that in 1972

00:32:05.440 but there was a sense

00:32:06.920 that working class people,

00:32:08.180 the docks,

00:32:08.920 the car factories

00:32:10.420 and so on,

00:32:11.400 there was a sense

00:32:12.220 that people had

00:32:13.080 a sense of power

00:32:14.400 and take a programme

00:32:16.760 like On the Buses,

00:32:17.900 I mean,

00:32:19.740 I don't know

00:32:20.080 if you've ever

00:32:20.660 watched On the Buses,

00:32:21.980 oh my God,

00:32:22.880 what a magnificent

00:32:24.160 little snapshot

00:32:25.960 of early 1970s Britain

00:32:28.640 it was.

00:32:29.540 I looked at one

00:32:30.560 when it come on

00:32:31.040 some UK gold thing

00:32:32.440 and I thought,

00:32:33.660 oh,

00:32:33.740 this should be interesting

00:32:34.580 and it is so,

00:32:36.780 so terrible.

00:32:38.980 I mean,

00:32:39.380 I'm not even thinking,

00:32:40.720 I mean,

00:32:41.020 it's just,

00:32:41.860 the one I saw,

00:32:43.060 Stan,

00:32:43.400 so it's two blokes

00:32:45.260 who are played by actors,

00:32:46.880 the actors are 50

00:32:48.080 and they're pretending

00:32:48.720 to be 25

00:32:49.600 and it's all about

00:32:50.860 the birds,

00:32:51.760 the birds on the bus,

00:32:53.020 all that

00:32:54.220 and it's so bad.

00:32:56.080 Sounds right up

00:32:56.640 my street,

00:32:57.220 Mark.

00:32:57.320 Oh God,

00:32:57.940 no,

00:32:58.300 it's entertaining.

00:32:59.460 You're bringing back

00:33:00.220 a classic,

00:33:00.900 mate,

00:33:01.140 a classic genre.

00:33:01.780 That's what I'm doing

00:33:02.640 right here.

00:33:03.280 I'm a fan of loads

00:33:05.660 of that stuff

00:33:06.880 and I forgive it loads

00:33:08.360 but anyway,

00:33:08.960 but the whole,

00:33:10.940 the central premise

00:33:12.000 of On the Buses

00:33:13.740 was there was

00:33:15.200 an inspector

00:33:16.680 called Blakey

00:33:17.580 who used to talk like that

00:33:18.880 and he used to get

00:33:19.720 so fed up

00:33:20.420 because the bus drivers,

00:33:22.940 they wouldn't turn up

00:33:23.720 for work,

00:33:24.620 they would do

00:33:25.500 what they wanted,

00:33:26.800 they would drive

00:33:27.720 the bus the wrong way

00:33:29.740 and crash through a gate

00:33:30.860 or something

00:33:31.360 and,

00:33:32.540 oh,

00:33:32.880 come here,

00:33:33.440 he'd be going,

00:33:33.720 oh,

00:33:33.880 come here,

00:33:34.320 I'll get you for this

00:33:35.240 and it just,

00:33:37.060 if that had been made

00:33:37.880 10 years ago,

00:33:38.700 it just wouldn't

00:33:39.320 have made sense

00:33:40.060 because this was a time

00:33:41.800 it reflected,

00:33:44.380 I mean,

00:33:44.840 obviously it wasn't real,

00:33:45.760 you couldn't really do that

00:33:46.920 if you were a bus driver

00:33:47.660 but it reflected a time

00:33:49.040 when working class people

00:33:51.600 had a sense of like,

00:33:53.820 we've got a bit

00:33:54.540 of collective strength,

00:33:56.060 it was a time

00:33:56.600 of strong trade unions

00:33:57.800 so regardless of

00:33:59.800 whether you say

00:34:00.760 that went too far

00:34:02.100 or not,

00:34:02.640 leaving that aside,

00:34:04.540 I was brought up

00:34:05.880 in a world

00:34:06.640 where,

00:34:07.800 yeah,

00:34:08.080 if you were,

00:34:09.700 if you were a working

00:34:10.540 class person

00:34:11.300 you could,

00:34:11.920 and you would,

00:34:12.520 you could win.

00:34:14.060 Now,

00:34:15.080 a few,

00:34:15.780 by the time of

00:34:16.800 the Thatcher years,

00:34:19.140 if you,

00:34:19.560 if I was a few years older

00:34:20.780 I'd have been brought up

00:34:21.720 with a sense

00:34:22.260 that if you were

00:34:22.860 a working class person

00:34:24.200 and you were campaigning

00:34:25.640 for something,

00:34:27.460 you couldn't win,

00:34:28.280 the best you could do

00:34:29.060 is make a song

00:34:30.260 and dance

00:34:30.760 and march up

00:34:32.080 and down

00:34:32.500 and then lose.

00:34:33.300 Hang on,

00:34:33.700 Mark,

00:34:33.980 isn't that a little bit

00:34:35.200 unfair?

00:34:35.680 Because you've got

00:34:36.100 Mondeo,

00:34:36.860 man,

00:34:37.100 you've got like

00:34:37.580 the Essex boy

00:34:38.380 wheeler dealer,

00:34:39.300 loads of money,

00:34:40.180 do you know what I mean?

00:34:40.920 Like the working class kids.

00:34:42.260 Yeah,

00:34:42.280 you could win,

00:34:43.120 you could win individually.

00:34:45.000 Yes,

00:34:45.440 I should,

00:34:45.820 I should,

00:34:46.460 collect that.

00:34:47.700 But you couldn't win

00:34:48.540 if you were a miner

00:34:49.320 and get together

00:34:50.400 with a bunch of other miners

00:34:51.460 and get your agenda.

00:34:52.320 You couldn't win collectively.

00:34:53.720 You couldn't win

00:34:54.880 by forming a trade union

00:34:56.240 and going,

00:34:56.880 we're going to demand

00:34:58.000 this,

00:34:58.340 this and this

00:34:58.880 and that,

00:34:59.600 you know,

00:35:01.400 that was broken.

00:35:03.680 Yeah,

00:35:03.940 that was certainly broken

00:35:05.040 by,

00:35:06.120 through the Margaret Thatcher years.

00:35:09.140 Yeah,

00:35:09.320 it definitely was

00:35:09.840 and particularly

00:35:10.340 through the miners strike

00:35:12.480 in 1984

00:35:13.020 that they went off

00:35:14.260 strike for a year

00:35:14.900 and they lost

00:35:15.420 and the pits were shut

00:35:16.320 and so on.

00:35:17.220 And so that,

00:35:19.280 yeah,

00:35:19.840 you wouldn't,

00:35:20.500 you just wouldn't

00:35:22.980 grow up

00:35:23.620 with the same

00:35:24.260 sense of

00:35:25.480 bravado

00:35:27.080 and confidence

00:35:27.860 that you must have,

00:35:29.400 that someone might have had,

00:35:31.020 you know,

00:35:31.260 in the 1970s.

00:35:32.700 And what do you make

00:35:33.440 of the situation now,

00:35:34.520 Mark?

00:35:34.660 Because,

00:35:35.000 I mean,

00:35:35.140 one of the things

00:35:35.780 that has happened,

00:35:36.480 obviously,

00:35:37.480 with your perspective,

00:35:38.540 I mean,

00:35:38.780 in that whole period of time

00:35:40.100 to the present day

00:35:41.060 is you've got far fewer

00:35:42.820 working class jobs

00:35:44.460 in that conventional sense.

00:35:46.080 The country's been

00:35:46.680 de-industrialized.

00:35:48.200 I mean,

00:35:48.420 what is a working class job

00:35:49.720 maybe working on a train

00:35:51.280 or,

00:35:51.700 you know,

00:35:52.000 there's obviously

00:35:52.620 driving a van,

00:35:53.640 right?

00:35:53.820 But there's not really

00:35:55.200 any institutions

00:35:57.120 that employ

00:35:57.960 hundreds of thousands

00:35:58.980 of people

00:35:59.600 other than the NHS,

00:36:00.960 maybe,

00:36:01.760 where there's even

00:36:02.600 the opportunity

00:36:03.300 for something like that.

00:36:04.520 I mean,

00:36:04.740 okay,

00:36:05.000 you get the teachers union,

00:36:06.140 but that's not the same

00:36:06.860 as going down the pit

00:36:07.820 either.

00:36:09.520 Now,

00:36:09.980 what does that mean

00:36:11.140 for,

00:36:12.140 is that why the left

00:36:13.160 is kind of on this weird journey?

00:36:14.800 Because

00:36:15.220 there's not really

00:36:16.700 that sense

00:36:17.580 of working class

00:36:18.660 solidarity

00:36:19.860 that's at the bottom of it

00:36:21.280 because there's not really

00:36:21.960 that much of a working class

00:36:23.260 left,

00:36:23.720 identifiably.

00:36:24.740 I think there is a working class

00:36:26.160 as much as there was,

00:36:27.580 but it's so much

00:36:29.940 more fragmented.

00:36:31.240 I mean,

00:36:31.380 one thing I would say

00:36:32.140 is that those mining unions,

00:36:35.400 engineering unions

00:36:36.220 and so on,

00:36:37.140 they didn't,

00:36:37.940 when engineering started,

00:36:39.540 it didn't start

00:36:40.380 with mass trade unions.

00:36:42.180 they had to be built

00:36:43.800 through massive battles

00:36:45.300 in the 1880s

00:36:46.560 or sometimes

00:36:47.120 little ones before that

00:36:48.300 and then before

00:36:49.200 the First World War

00:36:50.020 and so on.

00:36:50.480 They didn't come out

00:36:51.320 of nowhere.

00:36:56.220 But I don't know

00:36:57.460 how many people

00:36:58.120 work in supermarkets

00:36:59.460 in this country,

00:37:00.160 how many people

00:37:00.580 work in call centres.

00:37:01.980 I think that they are

00:37:03.000 the sort of mines

00:37:03.980 and docks of our day,

00:37:06.140 if you like.

00:37:07.020 But,

00:37:07.340 of course,

00:37:07.760 it's very,

00:37:08.300 very difficult to,

00:37:09.640 you know,

00:37:09.840 I guess that at some point,

00:37:11.620 there will be,

00:37:14.320 there will be a movement,

00:37:17.060 there already is

00:37:18.020 a movement to you

00:37:18.800 to form trade unions

00:37:20.660 in places like that

00:37:22.180 and bring about

00:37:22.780 some sort of

00:37:23.320 collective strength

00:37:23.980 but it's,

00:37:24.600 yeah,

00:37:25.080 it's not,

00:37:25.740 it's not going to be

00:37:27.560 anything like

00:37:28.280 it was in the shipyards.

00:37:30.540 Well,

00:37:30.880 because they're not

00:37:31.380 really careers,

00:37:32.340 are they?

00:37:32.680 Most people who work

00:37:33.740 in a supermarket

00:37:34.540 aren't going to start out

00:37:35.920 as a junior shelf stocker

00:37:37.720 and move up to

00:37:38.560 senior shelf stocker

00:37:39.780 and then,

00:37:40.600 you know,

00:37:40.880 this and,

00:37:41.300 progress through it

00:37:42.460 and still be there

00:37:43.580 30 years from now.

00:37:44.360 Most people now

00:37:45.140 are there for a few years,

00:37:46.560 they get another job,

00:37:47.400 they work in a call centre.

00:37:48.840 There's not that sense

00:37:49.680 of continuity

00:37:50.360 and then,

00:37:50.860 so the solidarity

00:37:51.580 then becomes

00:37:52.340 much more difficult

00:37:53.500 as well as a result,

00:37:54.580 I think.

00:37:54.740 Yeah,

00:37:54.880 yeah,

00:37:54.980 yeah,

00:37:55.140 no,

00:37:55.340 that's,

00:37:55.720 no,

00:37:55.920 I think that's,

00:37:56.560 I think that's

00:37:57.400 absolutely right

00:37:58.180 and it is certainly

00:37:59.660 a people who would

00:38:00.400 call themselves

00:38:01.160 socialist.

00:38:02.020 So,

00:38:02.220 I think when I,

00:38:03.160 in the 1970s,

00:38:04.520 if you called yourself

00:38:05.660 a socialist,

00:38:06.580 you would automatically

00:38:07.880 look to

00:38:08.800 being part of

00:38:10.100 the working class,

00:38:10.880 what was known

00:38:11.540 as the working class movement,

00:38:12.460 the trade union movement

00:38:13.340 or whatever.

00:38:14.000 Now,

00:38:14.900 that's,

00:38:15.640 that's not the case.

00:38:17.360 Now,

00:38:17.680 you would,

00:38:18.580 I don't know,

00:38:19.800 you would,

00:38:20.200 I mean,

00:38:21.380 I think there still

00:38:22.060 are enormous numbers

00:38:23.140 of people

00:38:23.500 who would call

00:38:24.020 themselves socialists

00:38:25.120 but I,

00:38:27.100 I'm not sure

00:38:28.480 what,

00:38:30.280 they don't,

00:38:31.680 they're much less likely

00:38:32.860 to join any,

00:38:34.020 any organisation

00:38:35.360 in any,

00:38:36.300 in any mass way,

00:38:38.520 I guess.

00:38:39.200 I don't think

00:38:39.680 the feelings

00:38:40.440 necessarily changed

00:38:42.540 or potentially

00:38:45.160 as,

00:38:45.700 I don't know.

00:38:46.420 I don't know,

00:38:46.840 the reason I ask you

00:38:47.600 this question

00:38:48.060 is it feels to me like,

00:38:49.200 and please challenge me

00:38:50.260 if you disagree,

00:38:51.500 is in having lost

00:38:54.100 that solidarity

00:38:55.420 that you talk about

00:38:56.560 and that sense

00:38:57.160 that there's a big group

00:38:59.360 of people

00:38:59.840 who have similar interests,

00:39:01.100 who work in similar industries,

00:39:02.420 who can get together

00:39:03.720 and achieve some kind

00:39:04.480 of outcome,

00:39:05.560 there's been a move

00:39:06.660 on the left

00:39:07.260 having realised

00:39:08.620 that's not available

00:39:09.460 to look at things

00:39:10.740 from a more

00:39:11.820 sort of privileged,

00:39:14.120 underprivileged,

00:39:15.540 race,

00:39:16.860 ethnicity,

00:39:18.320 sex,

00:39:18.620 sexuality,

00:39:19.740 sort of creating

00:39:20.400 a coalition of people.

00:39:22.400 You know,

00:39:22.640 the working people

00:39:23.440 might have argued

00:39:24.480 in the 70s

00:39:25.400 that,

00:39:25.760 you know,

00:39:26.080 they are disadvantaged

00:39:27.140 by being working class

00:39:28.480 or they need to get together

00:39:29.500 and advocate

00:39:30.060 for their interests

00:39:30.860 and now there seems

00:39:32.140 to be an attempt

00:39:33.140 to kind of unite people

00:39:34.440 around a shared disadvantage

00:39:37.260 that comes from

00:39:38.520 various forms of

00:39:39.600 discrimination

00:39:40.600 and so on.

00:39:41.580 Yeah, yeah,

00:39:41.860 no,

00:39:42.000 that's absolutely the case

00:39:43.880 and I think

00:39:44.960 that it's

00:39:45.700 so complex

00:39:47.820 this

00:39:48.120 and of course

00:39:48.680 we're sort of

00:39:49.320 forever looking

00:39:49.880 for simple solutions

00:39:51.660 and simple solutions

00:39:53.240 in 280 characters

00:39:54.940 on Twitter

00:39:55.600 that is just,

00:39:57.040 I just

00:39:58.200 don't engage

00:39:59.840 with it at all

00:40:00.560 because

00:40:00.900 it just,

00:40:01.940 no good is going

00:40:02.780 to come of it.

00:40:03.520 I've seen you engage

00:40:04.420 sometimes, Mark.

00:40:05.620 Have I?

00:40:06.120 Yeah,

00:40:06.500 when I did,

00:40:08.620 I'd say what I did

00:40:09.660 once.

00:40:13.060 Never again

00:40:13.900 so that,

00:40:14.340 this will be a good story.

00:40:14.980 We don't do gotchas

00:40:15.840 on the show

00:40:16.400 but go on.

00:40:17.500 I,

00:40:18.040 do I?

00:40:19.080 No, no,

00:40:19.680 I remember

00:40:20.340 there was a little one,

00:40:21.340 there was a little one

00:40:22.160 where you just

00:40:22.620 had a little bite back.

00:40:24.600 Was it when,

00:40:26.540 it,

00:40:27.680 well there was,

00:40:28.360 the time that I did

00:40:29.960 was when

00:40:31.100 Shappie mentioned

00:40:32.160 something

00:40:32.860 about

00:40:33.620 Eddie Izzard

00:40:34.640 and she,

00:40:36.220 it was something

00:40:37.360 so innocent

00:40:38.460 it was like

00:40:39.180 good luck

00:40:39.620 to Eddie Izzard

00:40:40.480 or something

00:40:41.720 and then

00:40:42.960 a lot of people

00:40:44.180 who were very

00:40:45.080 anti the idea

00:40:46.060 that you could be

00:40:46.880 bona fide

00:40:48.140 in trance

00:40:48.760 then piled in

00:40:50.620 and she,

00:40:51.200 and she was getting

00:40:51.900 all this abuse

00:40:52.800 and then

00:40:54.520 a few of them

00:40:55.300 were going

00:40:55.760 I bet Mark

00:40:56.820 wouldn't agree

00:40:57.400 with this

00:40:57.960 and that,

00:40:59.480 and then I thought

00:41:00.320 oh no,

00:41:02.300 well I'm going to have

00:41:02.900 to sort of say

00:41:03.620 what I do here

00:41:04.620 aren't I?

00:41:05.520 Because otherwise

00:41:05.980 it looks like

00:41:06.620 I'm not going

00:41:07.360 to back

00:41:08.340 random,

00:41:10.860 complete random

00:41:11.940 person,

00:41:12.780 angry,

00:41:13.660 angry person

00:41:14.700 from Romford

00:41:15.400 23816

00:41:16.560 on Twitter

00:41:17.500 against me

00:41:18.520 own partner

00:41:19.320 and I'd sort of,

00:41:20.780 similarly,

00:41:21.880 you know,

00:41:22.140 with my son,

00:41:23.320 we were just

00:41:23.960 talking about this

00:41:24.440 before,

00:41:24.940 my son put a,

00:41:26.500 your son's also

00:41:27.320 standing up

00:41:27.780 and he,

00:41:29.360 he sometimes

00:41:30.720 puts things on there

00:41:31.800 that end up

00:41:32.340 causing controversy,

00:41:33.240 he's got a very

00:41:34.180 funny joke

00:41:35.060 where I thought

00:41:36.240 it was like

00:41:36.980 cyclists

00:41:38.460 say they've,

00:41:39.980 say they've got,

00:41:41.000 we've got the law

00:41:41.740 of the highway code

00:41:42.840 and that's true

00:41:43.620 but the thing is

00:41:44.880 a truck driver

00:41:45.640 also has a law

00:41:46.620 on his side

00:41:47.280 which is Newton's

00:41:48.060 third law of motion

00:41:49.100 that says

00:41:49.600 if the truck

00:41:50.320 hits the cyclist

00:41:51.180 the truck will win.

00:41:52.560 Now that's a good joke,

00:41:53.680 right?

00:41:54.100 That's a good joke

00:41:54.620 but of course

00:41:55.360 and I,

00:41:56.160 you know,

00:41:56.420 I'm a cyclist,

00:41:57.400 I cycled here today

00:41:58.340 well except I went

00:41:59.100 to the wrong place

00:41:59.640 and you had to come

00:42:00.040 pick me up

00:42:00.440 but it's funny,

00:42:04.200 that's funny

00:42:04.880 but of course

00:42:05.360 how dare you

00:42:06.460 I've had fun

00:42:07.520 about all the people

00:42:08.300 who were killed

00:42:08.840 I think that's fine

00:42:09.680 oh fuck off

00:42:11.240 you bloody,

00:42:12.180 that's a joke

00:42:13.260 it's,

00:42:13.680 don't take things

00:42:14.580 literally

00:42:15.240 and so then

00:42:17.660 again I got

00:42:18.680 a load of abuse

00:42:19.620 you know

00:42:20.020 from people

00:42:21.020 saying your son's

00:42:22.560 been saying

00:42:22.900 do you honestly

00:42:24.560 think that in an

00:42:25.980 argument

00:42:26.400 between you

00:42:28.660 or I don't know

00:42:29.340 who the fuck

00:42:30.120 you are

00:42:30.740 who sent an

00:42:32.040 angry message

00:42:33.080 in Twitter

00:42:33.640 and you've got

00:42:34.120 a little fucking

00:42:34.840 St George's flag

00:42:35.920 and your little

00:42:36.380 thing behind

00:42:37.120 and my own son

00:42:39.960 I'm going to go

00:42:40.860 no sorry son

00:42:41.780 I'm with him

00:42:42.400 I'm with Terry

00:42:43.840 of course not

00:42:46.940 anyway

00:42:47.360 well the reason

00:42:48.640 I,

00:42:49.020 so we came on

00:42:50.360 to that

00:42:50.540 but it's a curious

00:42:51.200 thing that you

00:42:51.700 make the point of

00:42:52.340 and we talked

00:42:52.940 about it

00:42:53.300 before we started

00:42:54.060 do you think

00:42:55.220 what's happening

00:42:55.880 there

00:42:56.140 because there's

00:42:56.660 an argument

00:42:57.100 about free speech

00:42:58.780 and comedy

00:42:59.440 and whatever

00:42:59.960 and every

00:43:00.800 political side

00:43:01.800 wants to sort

00:43:02.740 of position

00:43:03.260 that as a left

00:43:04.120 versus right

00:43:04.820 thing

00:43:05.120 but what's

00:43:05.820 actually happening

00:43:06.620 there is

00:43:07.660 a lot of people

00:43:08.700 don't understand

00:43:09.460 jokes

00:43:09.900 they don't

00:43:10.680 understand comedy

00:43:11.520 and what social

00:43:12.260 media has done

00:43:13.120 is it has given

00:43:14.320 those people

00:43:15.160 a window

00:43:16.020 into what comedy

00:43:16.900 actually looks like

00:43:17.640 and they have

00:43:17.980 no fucking idea

00:43:18.700 what's going on

00:43:19.400 and so they're

00:43:20.200 like oh

00:43:20.820 this was meant

00:43:21.820 do you know

00:43:23.540 what I mean

00:43:23.920 yeah yeah yeah

00:43:24.540 do you think

00:43:25.060 that's what's

00:43:25.540 happening

00:43:25.820 yes

00:43:26.200 but I think

00:43:26.960 there's some

00:43:27.400 I think that

00:43:28.260 the question

00:43:28.880 you were raising

00:43:29.600 is a more

00:43:31.880 fundamental one

00:43:32.820 okay

00:43:33.120 and I think

00:43:33.780 it is one

00:43:34.780 that people

00:43:36.960 who are trying

00:43:37.800 to sort of

00:43:38.880 campaign in such

00:43:40.000 way to you know

00:43:40.920 to make the world

00:43:41.640 a fairer place

00:43:42.360 or so on

00:43:42.940 have to try

00:43:43.640 and get to grips

00:43:44.500 with it

00:43:44.800 so this is

00:43:45.580 I've

00:43:46.160 now I would

00:43:47.160 generally

00:43:47.680 when

00:43:48.460 when I hear

00:43:50.360 there are certain

00:43:51.140 people who when

00:43:51.740 I hear them

00:43:52.420 attack the woke

00:43:53.980 woke arguments

00:43:57.380 oh it's all

00:43:58.240 woke these days

00:43:59.260 I think

00:44:01.220 right

00:44:01.440 well hang on

00:44:02.120 first of all

00:44:02.680 get this in

00:44:03.240 perspective

00:44:03.760 the woke

00:44:04.780 are not running

00:44:05.580 the world

00:44:06.260 we've had

00:44:07.480 Donald Trump

00:44:08.060 as president

00:44:08.740 who boasted

00:44:11.040 he grabbed

00:44:12.060 women by the

00:44:12.720 pussy

00:44:13.060 and it was

00:44:13.620 hardly

00:44:14.380 you've really

00:44:15.820 got to stretch

00:44:16.400 woke quite a

00:44:17.140 distance to

00:44:17.700 include Donald

00:44:18.280 Trump

00:44:18.660 Boris Johnson

00:44:20.260 with all the

00:44:20.960 statements and

00:44:21.740 so on that

00:44:22.200 he's made

00:44:23.140 that we

00:44:23.580 know what

00:44:24.200 they are

00:44:24.620 and so on

00:44:25.060 so

00:44:25.380 the world

00:44:27.640 is not

00:44:28.080 run by

00:44:28.640 the woke

00:44:30.020 little bits

00:44:31.060 of institutions

00:44:32.300 are or maybe

00:44:33.220 the odd

00:44:33.620 comedy place

00:44:34.660 you're not

00:44:35.420 but even

00:44:36.340 there

00:44:37.020 do you

00:44:37.400 really

00:44:37.880 I don't

00:44:38.500 you know

00:44:38.980 I don't

00:44:39.440 know

00:44:39.720 well hold on

00:44:40.460 Mark

00:44:40.640 just to

00:44:41.280 counter that

00:44:41.920 I'm keen

00:44:42.580 to hear

00:44:42.820 your argument

00:44:43.320 however

00:44:43.740 in 2018

00:44:44.660 Nika Burns

00:44:45.500 who's the

00:44:46.300 director of

00:44:46.920 the Edinburgh

00:44:47.260 Comedy Awards

00:44:48.160 said that

00:44:48.900 she looks

00:44:49.360 forward to

00:44:49.860 a new

00:44:50.260 woke future

00:44:51.520 in comedy

00:44:52.080 when comedians

00:44:53.300 decide what

00:44:53.980 isn't

00:44:54.260 isn't acceptable

00:44:55.040 and people

00:44:55.860 would argue

00:44:56.240 I'm just

00:44:56.460 putting the

00:44:56.740 counter argument

00:44:57.220 people would

00:44:57.740 argue that

00:44:58.240 the education

00:44:58.960 system is

00:44:59.600 largely run

00:45:00.440 by people

00:45:01.240 who lean

00:45:01.800 in that

00:45:02.440 direction

00:45:02.840 and there's

00:45:03.140 quite a lot

00:45:03.540 of evidence

00:45:03.960 for that

00:45:04.340 right

00:45:04.580 you could

00:45:05.240 talk about

00:45:05.740 mainstream

00:45:06.140 media

00:45:06.420 now there's

00:45:07.060 very different

00:45:07.740 types of

00:45:08.200 mainstream

00:45:08.480 media

00:45:08.800 there's

00:45:09.080 Fox News

00:45:09.620 and there's

00:45:10.400 the Daily

00:45:10.760 Telegraph

00:45:11.360 and whatever

00:45:11.800 but there's

00:45:12.360 also the

00:45:12.740 Guardian

00:45:13.040 and the BBC

00:45:13.740 which increasingly

00:45:14.600 lean in that

00:45:15.200 direction

00:45:15.560 so

00:45:15.860 I think

00:45:17.660 one of the

00:45:18.180 reasons

00:45:18.400 this is a

00:45:19.380 different issue

00:45:19.980 but one of the

00:45:20.860 reasons people

00:45:21.380 increasingly

00:45:21.980 are sort of

00:45:23.120 not interested

00:45:23.700 in party

00:45:24.220 politics in

00:45:24.860 general

00:45:25.260 is there's

00:45:26.560 a sense

00:45:26.960 in which

00:45:27.460 our lives

00:45:28.380 are not

00:45:28.680 really run

00:45:29.220 by the

00:45:29.560 people we

00:45:29.920 elect anyway

00:45:30.620 do you know

00:45:31.520 what I mean

00:45:31.760 and that's

00:45:32.960 because a lot

00:45:33.600 of the

00:45:33.880 institutions

00:45:34.520 that inform

00:45:35.980 us and

00:45:36.680 persuade us

00:45:37.480 and show

00:45:37.980 us things

00:45:38.500 and whatever

00:45:38.920 are run

00:45:40.220 by a

00:45:41.380 certain

00:45:41.780 group of

00:45:42.780 people who

00:45:43.180 have a

00:45:43.440 certain

00:45:43.660 vision

00:45:44.060 and that

00:45:44.920 vision isn't

00:45:45.660 you know

00:45:45.920 top down

00:45:46.540 it's just

00:45:46.900 kind of

00:45:47.260 coalesced

00:45:47.820 around

00:45:48.080 certain

00:45:48.500 ideas

00:45:49.040 and so

00:45:50.880 I think

00:45:51.280 some people

00:45:52.040 would argue

00:45:52.540 that

00:45:52.880 just because

00:45:54.600 our elected

00:45:55.160 politicians

00:45:55.700 aren't woke

00:45:56.380 does not mean

00:45:57.100 a lot of

00:45:57.480 our institutions

00:45:58.140 aren't

00:45:58.920 but anyway

00:46:00.160 yeah yeah

00:46:00.640 I accept

00:46:02.820 that yeah

00:46:03.380 and there

00:46:03.720 are places

00:46:04.180 where

00:46:04.480 and again

00:46:05.520 it would be

00:46:06.120 so easy

00:46:06.880 to it's so

00:46:08.000 easy to take

00:46:08.640 I don't want

00:46:09.100 you to slam

00:46:09.680 woke people

00:46:10.180 it's not what

00:46:10.580 this is about

00:46:11.120 at all

00:46:11.520 I mean you can

00:46:12.640 if you want

00:46:13.060 no no

00:46:13.380 I'm curious

00:46:13.900 to hear your

00:46:14.400 point about

00:46:15.120 jokes

00:46:15.960 and freedom

00:46:16.980 of expression

00:46:17.480 that's what

00:46:18.000 you were

00:46:18.300 talking about

00:46:18.800 right

00:46:20.840 well I

00:46:21.580 would start

00:46:23.440 with this

00:46:24.160 which is

00:46:25.260 I'm very

00:46:26.660 glad you

00:46:27.100 asked

00:46:27.240 by making

00:46:29.800 these two

00:46:30.300 points

00:46:30.620 I think

00:46:31.080 what the

00:46:31.380 British people

00:46:31.960 really want

00:46:32.700 right now

00:46:33.280 is to

00:46:34.000 I was with

00:46:36.420 Matt Ford

00:46:36.920 the other

00:46:37.240 day

00:46:37.540 and he's

00:46:38.020 got

00:46:38.240 he does

00:46:39.040 he's

00:46:39.340 I can't

00:46:40.120 I haven't

00:46:40.440 got it

00:46:40.700 but he does

00:46:41.200 it

00:46:41.380 you know

00:46:41.660 he's impressive

00:46:42.240 he's a very

00:46:42.640 good political

00:46:43.300 impression

00:46:43.700 he's got

00:46:44.940 the Starmer

00:46:46.020 voice

00:46:46.700 absolutely

00:46:47.440 and he does

00:46:48.320 the hands

00:46:48.940 and I can't

00:46:49.580 I'm very

00:46:51.240 jealous of it

00:46:51.900 as I can't

00:46:52.500 I haven't

00:46:52.980 got it at

00:46:53.380 all yet

00:46:53.780 but

00:46:55.300 I think

00:46:58.460 that

00:46:59.680 there is

00:47:00.200 I'm going

00:47:00.980 to come

00:47:01.260 on to

00:47:01.620 say

00:47:01.980 that I

00:47:02.400 think

00:47:02.660 that there

00:47:03.200 is a

00:47:04.180 that there

00:47:05.520 is a

00:47:05.800 problem

00:47:06.200 really

00:47:06.980 with seeing

00:47:08.000 arguments

00:47:09.220 that might

00:47:09.960 be described

00:47:10.600 as woke

00:47:11.640 as being

00:47:12.640 what the

00:47:14.560 main argument

00:47:15.320 of the

00:47:15.720 left

00:47:16.060 I think

00:47:17.580 that that

00:47:18.220 given

00:47:19.380 that you

00:47:19.960 know I

00:47:20.280 find that

00:47:20.720 even the

00:47:21.060 term the

00:47:21.520 left

00:47:21.740 problematic

00:47:22.180 in the

00:47:22.620 first place

00:47:23.120 so I'm

00:47:23.980 in a

00:47:24.420 sort of

00:47:24.740 spiral

00:47:25.200 of

00:47:25.400 difficulties

00:47:25.880 with

00:47:26.720 this

00:47:27.120 I

00:47:28.000 think

00:47:28.520 that

00:47:29.380 the

00:47:30.220 main

00:47:30.800 argument

00:47:31.300 of

00:47:31.760 the

00:47:32.120 left

00:47:32.580 should

00:47:32.880 we

00:47:33.020 say

00:47:33.300 should

00:47:33.680 be

00:47:34.000 that

00:47:34.560 for

00:47:35.180 example

00:47:35.680 the

00:47:35.920 water

00:47:36.240 companies

00:47:36.700 and the

00:47:36.980 rail

00:47:37.200 companies

00:47:37.660 should be

00:47:38.000 taken

00:47:38.300 away

00:47:38.560 from

00:47:38.740 the

00:47:38.860 people

00:47:39.120 who

00:47:39.280 are

00:47:39.460 the

00:47:40.280 utter

00:47:40.820 criminality

00:47:42.100 of

00:47:42.760 these

00:47:43.380 people

00:47:43.720 who

00:47:43.940 are

00:47:44.520 barbaric

00:47:45.180 people

00:47:45.460 who

00:47:45.900 clearly

00:47:46.760 don't

00:47:46.980 know

00:47:47.120 how to

00:47:47.360 run

00:47:47.520 the

00:47:47.660 place

00:47:47.940 at all

00:47:48.340 other

00:47:48.940 than

00:47:49.140 to

00:47:49.340 pay

00:47:50.060 their

00:47:50.240 shareholders

00:47:50.660 and so

00:47:51.000 on

00:47:51.120 so

00:47:51.820 that

00:47:52.260 sort

00:47:52.720 of

00:47:52.960 argument

00:47:53.880 that

00:47:54.640 there

00:47:54.840 should

00:47:55.020 be

00:47:55.200 something

00:47:55.760 that

00:47:56.700 there

00:47:56.860 are

00:47:56.960 all

00:47:57.240 manner

00:47:57.520 of

00:47:57.720 things

00:47:58.020 that

00:47:58.240 could

00:47:58.480 be

00:47:58.700 done

00:47:59.040 about

00:47:59.940 rents

00:48:01.960 being

00:48:02.420 so

00:48:02.800 high

00:48:03.260 that

00:48:03.980 it

00:48:04.660 causes

00:48:05.060 such

00:48:05.620 an

00:48:06.240 enormous

00:48:06.680 sort

00:48:06.940 of

00:48:07.040 dislocation

00:48:07.740 for

00:48:08.120 younger

00:48:09.020 people

00:48:09.500 with

00:48:10.000 housing

00:48:10.460 for

00:48:11.080 example

00:48:11.540 that

00:48:12.080 those

00:48:12.420 issues

00:48:12.800 that

00:48:12.980 doesn't

00:48:13.360 mean

00:48:13.580 that

00:48:13.740 I

00:48:13.960 would

00:48:14.260 therefore

00:48:14.660 say

00:48:14.980 that

00:48:15.220 arguments

00:48:15.960 about

00:48:16.240 racism

00:48:16.720 sexism

00:48:17.400 are

00:48:18.100 irrelevant

00:48:19.280 absolutely

00:48:20.200 not

00:48:20.840 I

00:48:21.080 think

00:48:21.320 that

00:48:21.480 for

00:48:21.840 example

00:48:22.380 I

00:48:22.920 think

00:48:23.020 one of

00:48:23.240 the

00:48:23.340 great

00:48:23.640 successes

00:48:24.280 of

00:48:24.920 I

00:48:25.340 won't

00:48:25.480 say

00:48:25.660 the

00:48:25.820 left

00:48:26.140 but

00:48:26.360 of

00:48:26.580 people

00:48:27.180 who

00:48:27.460 have

00:48:27.780 fought

00:48:29.140 against

00:48:29.560 the

00:48:29.780 prevailing

00:48:30.240 ideas

00:48:30.920 when

00:48:31.840 back

00:48:32.600 in

00:48:32.840 those

00:48:33.120 sort

00:48:33.320 of

00:48:33.440 late

00:48:33.680 70s

00:48:34.160 early

00:48:34.400 80s

00:48:34.860 times

00:48:35.300 if

00:48:36.680 you

00:48:37.380 were

00:48:38.240 in

00:48:39.360 favour

00:48:39.880 of

00:48:40.380 gay

00:48:40.800 marriage

00:48:41.560 you

00:48:42.100 were

00:48:42.380 an

00:48:42.560 extremist

00:48:43.520 now

00:48:44.660 you are

00:48:45.180 an

00:48:45.320 extremist

00:48:46.100 if

00:48:46.460 you are

00:48:46.700 against

00:48:47.120 it

00:48:47.420 because

00:48:48.260 the

00:48:49.620 ideas

00:48:50.240 have

00:48:50.820 largely

00:48:51.440 won

00:48:51.860 it

00:48:52.200 doesn't

00:48:52.400 mean

00:48:52.540 it's

00:48:52.780 all

00:48:53.180 won

00:48:53.520 but

00:48:54.320 if

00:48:54.960 you

00:48:55.120 are

00:48:55.320 gay

00:48:55.600 in

00:48:55.800 2023

00:48:56.540 in

00:48:57.080 Britain

00:48:57.360 life

00:48:58.200 is

00:48:58.540 incomparably

00:48:59.760 easier

00:49:00.220 than it

00:49:00.540 was

00:49:00.740 if you

00:49:00.980 were

00:49:01.120 gay

00:49:01.320 in

00:49:01.500 1979

00:49:02.200 in

00:49:03.380 Britain

00:49:04.180 now

00:49:05.200 it's

00:49:05.520 the

00:49:05.800 virgin

00:49:06.620 trains

00:49:07.140 have a

00:49:07.500 pride

00:49:07.960 rainbow

00:49:09.160 thing

00:49:09.540 on the

00:49:09.780 front

00:49:09.960 of

00:49:10.060 I'm

00:49:10.520 not

00:49:10.640 saying

00:49:10.840 that's

00:49:11.100 a

00:49:11.240 good

00:49:11.700 or

00:49:11.860 bad

00:49:12.140 thing

00:49:12.400 but

00:49:12.720 just

00:49:12.920 as

00:49:13.080 an

00:49:13.320 example

00:49:13.880 there

00:49:14.100 are

00:49:14.220 gay

00:49:14.540 politicians

00:49:15.880 no one

00:49:17.520 was

00:49:17.700 out

00:49:17.940 gay

00:49:18.300 when

00:49:18.540 I

00:49:18.680 was

00:49:18.920 in

00:49:19.600 1978

00:49:20.220 no

00:49:21.100 one

00:49:21.500 and

00:49:22.200 it

00:49:22.660 was

00:49:22.960 so

00:49:24.020 that

00:49:24.300 is

00:49:24.520 if

00:49:24.720 you

00:49:24.840 could

00:49:25.000 jump

00:49:26.820 from

00:49:27.040 1978

00:49:27.540 to

00:49:28.020 now

00:49:28.420 and

00:49:29.360 just

00:49:30.060 look

00:49:30.400 at

00:49:30.520 the

00:49:30.640 attitudes

00:49:31.040 towards

00:49:31.660 homosexuality

00:49:33.300 that

00:49:34.240 would

00:49:34.500 be

00:49:34.740 tremendously

00:49:35.520 exciting

00:49:36.200 I think

00:49:36.660 the fact

00:49:37.040 that

00:49:37.220 has

00:49:37.660 changed

00:49:38.660 as much

00:49:39.280 as it

00:49:39.500 has

00:49:39.760 I

00:49:39.960 don't

00:49:40.220 think

00:49:40.400 that's

00:49:40.620 irrelevant

00:49:40.900 and

00:49:41.100 I

00:49:41.240 think

00:49:41.460 also

00:49:41.740 more

00:49:42.080 complex

00:49:42.700 but

00:49:42.900 attitudes

00:49:43.340 towards

00:49:43.720 women

00:49:44.020 it's

00:49:44.860 so

00:49:45.220 so

00:49:45.520 so

00:49:45.800 much

00:49:46.240 different

00:49:47.060 as a

00:49:47.380 sports

00:49:47.740 fanatic

00:49:48.160 the fact

00:49:48.560 that

00:49:48.740 now

00:49:49.440 you've

00:49:49.760 really

00:49:50.060 got to

00:49:50.360 be on

00:49:50.580 the

00:49:50.760 margins

00:49:51.240 to go

00:49:51.720 women's

00:49:52.140 football

00:49:52.420 women's

00:49:52.900 cricket

00:49:53.160 that's

00:49:53.440 not

00:49:53.580 proper

00:49:53.820 sport

00:49:54.240 that's

00:49:54.820 that's

00:49:55.420 one

00:49:55.660 now

00:49:55.900 you're on

00:49:56.140 the margins

00:49:56.520 mate

00:49:56.860 thanks mate

00:50:01.540 is that

00:50:02.940 a boss

00:50:03.320 there you

00:50:03.660 go

00:50:03.900 I'm a

00:50:06.940 fanatic

00:50:07.520 cricket

00:50:08.620 fanatic

00:50:08.960 all of

00:50:10.520 that

00:50:10.720 but

00:50:12.740 I think

00:50:14.520 that

00:50:15.140 for

00:50:16.500 for this

00:50:16.820 to be

00:50:17.100 the

00:50:17.300 central

00:50:18.000 argument

00:50:18.680 of

00:50:19.860 our

00:50:20.100 time

00:50:20.560 does

00:50:21.120 not

00:50:21.600 help

00:50:22.200 people

00:50:22.660 who

00:50:22.900 are

00:50:23.040 trying

00:50:23.320 to

00:50:23.520 make

00:50:23.720 society

00:50:24.240 more

00:50:24.640 equal

00:50:25.180 it

00:50:25.780 does

00:50:26.080 not

00:50:26.480 I

00:50:27.080 would

00:50:28.000 on

00:50:28.980 the

00:50:29.160 side

00:50:29.720 generally

00:50:30.400 of

00:50:31.020 people

00:50:31.520 who

00:50:32.660 I

00:50:33.180 think

00:50:33.400 if

00:50:33.540 someone

00:50:33.800 wants

00:50:34.100 to

00:50:34.260 be

00:50:34.500 trans

00:50:35.140 let them

00:50:35.380 be

00:50:35.500 trans

00:50:35.920 I

00:50:36.140 think

00:50:36.360 that's

00:50:36.580 fine

00:50:37.000 if

00:50:37.240 I'm

00:50:37.660 completely

00:50:38.080 on the

00:50:38.400 side

00:50:38.680 of

00:50:38.840 people

00:50:39.100 who

00:50:39.260 are

00:50:39.860 combating

00:50:40.700 racism

00:50:41.180 and so

00:50:41.600 on

00:50:41.740 what I

00:50:42.300 really

00:50:43.720 really

00:50:44.440 do

00:50:44.840 find

00:50:45.480 myself

00:50:45.880 frustrated

00:50:46.500 with

00:50:46.960 is

00:50:47.300 someone

00:50:47.720 who

00:50:48.300 will

00:50:48.660 say

00:50:49.160 that

00:50:50.200 a

00:50:51.520 writer

00:50:52.060 should

00:50:52.820 be

00:50:53.220 a

00:50:54.860 writer

00:50:55.200 should

00:50:55.620 for

00:50:56.240 example

00:50:56.820 be

00:50:57.500 I

00:50:58.640 don't

00:50:58.900 I don't

00:50:59.780 I think

00:51:00.140 cancelled

00:51:00.540 is the

00:51:00.880 wrong word

00:51:01.380 because I

00:51:01.660 don't think

00:51:02.000 that's

00:51:02.340 in reality

00:51:03.080 what happens

00:51:03.660 but I

00:51:04.020 think

00:51:04.300 for

00:51:04.700 them to

00:51:05.760 be

00:51:05.980 harangued

00:51:07.020 in the

00:51:07.460 way that

00:51:08.000 does

00:51:08.400 happen

00:51:08.980 sometimes

00:51:09.860 because of

00:51:11.500 something that

00:51:12.160 they've

00:51:12.460 written

00:51:12.860 that

00:51:13.220 could

00:51:13.940 be

00:51:14.120 interpreted

00:51:14.560 as

00:51:14.780 racist

00:51:15.180 I

00:51:15.500 think

00:51:15.840 is

00:51:16.240 not

00:51:16.940 right

00:51:17.340 I

00:51:17.560 think

00:51:17.720 it's

00:51:17.840 morally

00:51:18.100 not

00:51:18.320 right

00:51:18.540 but also

00:51:19.040 I

00:51:19.280 don't

00:51:19.580 think

00:51:19.800 it

00:51:19.940 helps

00:51:20.280 win

00:51:20.940 the

00:51:21.160 argument

00:51:21.580 because

00:51:22.160 I

00:51:22.400 think

00:51:22.680 that

00:51:22.900 there

00:51:23.120 are

00:51:23.300 people

00:51:23.720 who

00:51:24.280 you

00:51:24.420 might

00:51:24.640 disagree

00:51:25.060 with

00:51:25.580 and

00:51:25.920 you

00:51:26.100 go

00:51:26.380 I

00:51:26.800 disagree

00:51:27.160 with

00:51:27.520 you

00:51:27.660 I

00:51:27.840 don't

00:51:27.980 think

00:51:28.100 you

00:51:28.200 should

00:51:28.400 have

00:51:28.520 written

00:51:28.740 that

00:51:29.100 I

00:51:29.640 don't

00:51:30.060 think

00:51:30.240 that

00:51:30.400 means

00:51:30.620 you

00:51:30.780 shouldn't

00:51:31.200 be

00:51:31.320 allowed

00:51:31.580 to

00:51:31.760 turn

00:51:32.000 up

00:51:32.160 at

00:51:32.260 a

00:51:32.380 university

00:51:32.900 and

00:51:33.280 make

00:51:33.500 a

00:51:33.680 speech

00:51:42.860 it

00:51:43.080 impossible

00:51:43.640 for

00:51:44.340 people

00:51:44.660 so

00:51:44.960 therefore

00:51:45.480 it

00:51:46.260 makes

00:51:46.680 it

00:51:46.880 it

00:51:47.080 just

00:51:47.280 angers

00:51:47.860 people

00:51:48.260 and

00:51:48.940 you

00:51:50.200 can't

00:51:50.500 say

00:51:50.700 nothing

00:51:50.980 anymore

00:51:51.400 these

00:51:51.700 days

00:51:52.080 I

00:51:52.340 don't

00:51:52.580 think

00:51:52.740 that's

00:51:53.000 true

00:51:53.360 but

00:51:53.740 I

00:51:53.900 think

00:51:54.180 that

00:51:54.380 I'm

00:51:55.480 probably

00:51:55.680 not

00:51:55.840 arguing

00:51:56.120 this

00:51:56.300 very

00:51:56.520 well

00:51:56.820 I

00:51:57.360 think

00:51:57.600 partly

00:51:58.080 it's

00:51:58.300 affected

00:51:58.660 by

00:51:58.980 my

00:51:59.260 age

00:51:59.700 because

00:52:00.440 I

00:52:01.540 was

00:52:01.720 brought

00:52:01.900 up

00:52:02.040 in

00:52:02.140 a

00:52:02.280 town

00:52:02.580 Swanley

00:52:03.780 not

00:52:04.160 all

00:52:04.440 that

00:52:04.640 far

00:52:04.860 from

00:52:05.040 it

00:52:05.160 as

00:52:05.280 I

00:52:05.360 said

00:52:05.660 and

00:52:06.760 it

00:52:07.620 was

00:52:07.860 brutal

00:52:08.940 the

00:52:09.220 racism

00:52:09.780 was

00:52:10.080 brutal

00:52:11.040 it

00:52:11.820 was

00:52:12.040 not

00:52:12.440 it

00:52:13.720 was

00:52:13.960 just

00:52:14.720 foul

00:52:15.740 you

00:52:16.260 know

00:52:16.400 the

00:52:16.640 n-word

00:52:17.360 said

00:52:18.120 a hundred

00:52:19.260 times

00:52:19.840 in a

00:52:20.120 night

00:52:20.360 in a

00:52:20.720 pub

00:52:21.060 you

00:52:21.520 know

00:52:21.660 when

00:52:22.360 I

00:52:22.640 was

00:52:22.820 a

00:52:22.960 milkman

00:52:23.420 I

00:52:23.860 have

00:52:24.040 this

00:52:24.200 really

00:52:24.620 clear

00:52:24.940 this

00:52:25.200 is

00:52:25.360 not

00:52:26.200 it

00:52:26.320 doesn't

00:52:26.500 even

00:52:26.680 stand

00:52:27.100 out

00:52:27.320 that

00:52:27.480 much

00:52:27.680 but

00:52:27.800 I'll

00:52:27.920 just

00:52:28.040 say

00:52:28.240 it

00:52:28.320 as

00:52:28.420 an

00:52:28.520 example

00:52:29.020 there

00:52:29.880 were

00:52:30.180 two

00:52:30.800 black

00:52:31.440 lads

00:52:31.740 sent

00:52:32.020 down

00:52:32.320 by

00:52:32.680 express

00:52:33.480 dairies

00:52:34.060 to

00:52:34.480 hose

00:52:34.980 down

00:52:35.260 the

00:52:35.480 yard

00:52:36.400 the

00:52:37.060 manager

00:52:37.540 I

00:52:37.820 just

00:52:38.120 happened

00:52:38.320 to be

00:52:38.580 in

00:52:38.680 the

00:52:45.560 office

00:52:47.780 slammed

00:52:48.420 something

00:52:48.740 down

00:52:48.980 on the

00:52:49.220 table

00:52:49.580 I

00:52:50.260 said

00:52:50.520 I

00:52:50.680 wanted

00:52:50.940 them

00:52:51.140 to

00:52:51.340 send

00:52:51.620 someone

00:52:51.960 down

00:52:52.400 to

00:52:52.900 clean

00:52:53.220 a

00:52:53.380 yard

00:52:53.740 a

00:52:54.300 couple

00:52:54.800 of

00:52:54.960 monkeys

00:52:55.840 I

00:52:57.360 remember

00:52:58.140 that

00:52:58.400 really

00:52:58.860 clearly

00:52:59.400 but

00:53:00.380 most

00:53:00.940 clearly

00:53:02.860 because

00:53:03.460 it

00:53:04.280 wasn't

00:53:04.860 that

00:53:05.100 out

00:53:05.420 of

00:53:05.680 the

00:53:06.140 ordinary

00:53:06.540 and

00:53:07.720 it

00:53:08.520 was

00:53:08.760 foul

00:53:09.820 and

00:53:10.520 I

00:53:11.040 think

00:53:11.420 that

00:53:11.680 a lot

00:53:12.300 of

00:53:12.460 what

00:53:12.600 we

00:53:12.740 would

00:53:12.900 consider

00:53:13.360 woke

00:53:13.980 right

00:53:14.680 we're

00:53:14.980 not

00:53:15.220 going

00:53:15.640 to

00:53:15.840 accept

00:53:16.360 that

00:53:16.640 sort

00:53:16.940 of

00:53:17.100 language

00:53:17.480 anymore

00:53:17.980 has

00:53:18.860 been

00:53:19.580 what

00:53:19.960 has

00:53:20.180 turned

00:53:20.640 that

00:53:21.200 around

00:53:22.220 but

00:53:23.860 it's

00:53:25.200 also

00:53:25.660 required

00:53:26.320 an

00:53:26.520 enormous

00:53:26.920 amount

00:53:27.220 of

00:53:27.440 patience

00:53:28.180 arguing

00:53:29.220 with

00:53:29.480 people

00:53:29.900 sitting

00:53:30.940 and

00:53:31.220 talking

00:53:31.520 to

00:53:31.740 people

00:53:32.040 who

00:53:32.240 tell

00:53:32.460 racist

00:53:32.920 jokes

00:53:33.340 and

00:53:33.500 going

00:53:33.740 mate

00:53:34.640 you

00:53:34.960 know

00:53:35.320 finding

00:53:36.360 ways

00:53:36.960 of

00:53:37.240 finding

00:53:38.220 ways

00:53:38.560 of

00:53:38.720 combating

00:53:39.300 it

00:53:39.520 without

00:53:39.780 just

00:53:40.140 calling

00:53:40.440 them

00:53:40.580 arseholes

00:53:41.220 I

00:53:42.320 think

00:53:42.600 you

00:53:42.740 have

00:53:42.880 to

00:53:43.000 try

00:53:43.260 and

00:53:43.400 win

00:53:43.560 people

00:53:44.020 round

00:53:44.560 I

00:53:44.820 think

00:53:45.060 if

00:53:45.220 someone's

00:53:46.140 Oswald

00:53:46.620 Mosley

00:53:47.240 or

00:53:47.700 Hitler

00:53:48.180 there's

00:53:48.640 no

00:53:48.800 point

00:53:49.040 in

00:53:49.180 trying

00:53:49.300 to

00:53:49.400 win

00:53:49.560 them

00:53:49.680 round

00:53:50.020 but

00:53:50.840 most

00:53:51.840 people

00:53:52.160 aren't

00:53:52.540 that

00:53:52.920 and

00:53:54.100 that's

00:53:54.400 that's

00:53:54.940 a real

00:53:55.200 problem

00:53:55.560 that I

00:53:56.000 have

00:53:56.320 with

00:53:56.520 the

00:53:56.680 left

00:53:57.040 is

00:53:57.660 I

00:53:57.860 agree

00:53:58.220 with

00:53:58.480 a lot

00:53:58.760 of

00:53:58.900 the

00:53:59.020 ideas

00:53:59.580 of

00:53:59.740 the

00:53:59.860 left

00:54:00.120 but

00:54:00.520 then

00:54:00.680 I

00:54:00.840 see

00:54:01.100 some

00:54:01.360 of

00:54:01.500 the

00:54:01.620 behaviour

00:54:02.100 of

00:54:02.280 the

00:54:02.420 people

00:54:02.840 on

00:54:03.720 the

00:54:03.900 left

00:54:04.120 and

00:54:04.240 who

00:54:04.360 identify

00:54:04.820 as

00:54:05.280 left

00:54:05.480 and

00:54:05.600 I

00:54:05.720 think

00:54:05.900 to

00:54:06.040 myself

00:54:06.360 bloody

00:54:07.000 hell

00:54:07.340 I

00:54:07.480 don't

00:54:07.620 want

00:54:07.760 anything

00:54:08.000 to do

00:54:08.420 with

00:54:08.620 you

00:54:08.780 your

00:54:09.440 behaviour

00:54:09.880 is

00:54:10.120 terrible

00:54:10.600 well

00:54:11.040 they

00:54:11.200 hate

00:54:11.380 me

00:54:11.640 some

00:54:11.860 of

00:54:11.960 them

00:54:12.100 people

00:54:12.520 but

00:54:14.920 that's

00:54:15.280 they'll

00:54:16.840 probably

00:54:17.800 slag me

00:54:18.540 off

00:54:18.700 more

00:54:18.900 than

00:54:19.100 you

00:54:20.180 don't

00:54:20.760 think

00:54:20.940 so

00:54:21.120 do

00:54:23.400 you

00:54:23.440 know

00:54:23.620 what

00:54:23.840 I

00:54:24.120 don't

00:54:24.480 know

00:54:24.720 I

00:54:25.080 get

00:54:25.740 there

00:54:29.080 are

00:54:29.260 sort

00:54:29.460 of

00:54:29.580 there's

00:54:29.820 people

00:54:30.680 for

00:54:30.880 example

00:54:31.440 that

00:54:31.840 on

00:54:32.720 social

00:54:33.140 media

00:54:33.620 that

00:54:33.900 will

00:54:34.040 call

00:54:34.220 themselves

00:54:34.740 you

00:54:35.340 know

00:54:35.520 we

00:54:36.040 back

00:54:36.960 bring

00:54:37.960 back

00:54:38.280 Corbyn

00:54:38.780 or

00:54:38.960 something

00:54:39.660 yeah

00:54:40.180 and they

00:54:40.780 I've

00:54:43.060 never

00:54:43.240 said

00:54:43.520 anything

00:54:43.800 publicly

00:54:44.500 you know

00:54:45.020 I think

00:54:45.340 there were

00:54:45.640 clearly

00:54:46.380 until

00:54:47.320 today

00:54:47.900 clearly

00:54:50.720 right

00:54:51.340 I don't

00:54:51.680 think this

00:54:51.980 is that

00:54:52.300 controversial

00:54:52.920 clearly

00:54:53.920 there were

00:54:54.500 a number

00:54:54.860 of problems

00:54:55.540 with the

00:54:56.240 Corbyn

00:54:56.640 project

00:54:57.000 it

00:54:58.020 didn't

00:54:58.540 go as

00:54:59.040 well

00:54:59.360 as it

00:55:00.020 might

00:55:00.300 have

00:55:00.520 been

00:55:00.960 hoped

00:55:01.640 and

00:55:02.060 that

00:55:02.260 was

00:55:02.460 all

00:55:02.860 a

00:55:03.020 Jewish

00:55:03.240 conspiracy

00:55:03.840 Mark

00:55:04.300 this

00:55:05.980 is

00:55:06.120 the

00:55:06.300 point

00:55:06.560 I

00:55:06.760 was

00:55:06.920 trying

00:55:07.100 to

00:55:07.200 make

00:55:07.520 and

00:55:09.920 you

00:55:11.100 know

00:55:11.260 so

00:55:11.600 but

00:55:11.920 you're

00:55:15.840 not

00:55:15.980 allowed

00:55:16.220 to

00:55:16.420 say

00:55:16.760 that

00:55:17.020 to

00:55:17.180 these

00:55:17.380 people

00:55:17.580 but

00:55:17.980 I

00:55:18.460 would

00:55:18.860 just

00:55:19.720 get

00:55:20.420 it

00:55:20.580 in

00:55:20.740 perspective

00:55:21.300 that

00:55:21.600 this

00:55:21.800 is

00:55:22.100 I

00:55:22.600 don't

00:55:24.140 know

00:55:24.300 how many

00:55:24.700 people

00:55:25.060 there are

00:55:25.460 like that

00:55:25.940 going angry

00:55:26.500 angry

00:55:26.800 angry

00:55:27.100 angry

00:55:27.400 on Twitter

00:55:27.840 I'll be

00:55:28.140 joking me

00:55:28.900 actor

00:55:29.140 I say

00:55:29.600 there was

00:55:30.140 no collection

00:55:30.880 of words

00:55:31.480 you could

00:55:31.740 put on

00:55:32.060 Twitter

00:55:32.320 that

00:55:32.500 wouldn't

00:55:32.780 annoy

00:55:33.520 someone

00:55:34.040 you could

00:55:34.760 say

00:55:35.060 I'm

00:55:35.540 enjoying

00:55:35.840 a delightful

00:55:36.300 sunset

00:55:36.800 across

00:55:37.180 Dorset

00:55:37.700 this

00:55:37.920 evening

00:55:38.240 and

00:55:38.780 someone

00:55:39.020 had

00:55:39.180 put

00:55:39.360 not

00:55:39.840 so

00:55:40.080 delightful

00:55:40.560 if

00:55:40.760 you

00:55:40.880 suffer

00:55:41.100 from

00:55:41.300 sunset

00:55:41.820 aversion

00:55:42.320 Dorset

00:55:43.100 syndrome

00:55:43.660 actually

00:55:44.520 bark

00:55:45.220 have a

00:55:46.540 thought

00:55:46.720 for

00:55:46.920 sad

00:55:47.380 sufferers

00:55:47.920 in

00:55:48.080 future

00:55:48.420 I

00:55:48.580 thought

00:55:48.700 you

00:55:48.800 were

00:55:48.920 better

00:55:49.180 than

00:55:49.420 that

00:55:49.940 that

00:55:51.520 very

00:55:51.920 accurate

00:55:52.380 this

00:55:53.500 is

00:55:53.700 true

00:55:54.080 but

00:55:54.940 I

00:55:55.680 mentioned

00:55:56.140 Donald

00:55:56.820 Trump

00:55:57.260 I

00:55:57.500 referred

00:55:57.740 to

00:55:57.900 Donald

00:55:58.120 Trump

00:55:58.380 as

00:55:58.540 a

00:55:58.720 psychopath

00:55:59.200 it

00:55:59.620 was

00:55:59.660 in

00:55:59.900 passing

00:56:00.260 it

00:56:00.460 wasn't

00:56:00.660 and

00:56:01.000 four

00:56:01.540 people

00:56:01.920 sent

00:56:02.220 me

00:56:02.380 messages

00:56:02.740 saying

00:56:03.220 don't

00:56:04.000 add

00:56:04.220 to

00:56:04.360 the

00:56:04.520 stigma

00:56:04.860 against

00:56:05.220 psychopaths

00:56:06.660 there's

00:56:10.680 meant to

00:56:11.080 be a

00:56:11.400 stigma

00:56:11.700 against

00:56:12.140 psychopaths

00:56:13.660 they're

00:56:14.360 fucking

00:56:14.740 psychopaths

00:56:16.580 well it

00:56:16.980 is

00:56:17.260 but

00:56:18.180 this

00:56:18.840 you see

00:56:21.500 this is

00:56:22.600 a problem

00:56:23.200 it's

00:56:23.840 you know

00:56:24.340 the left

00:56:24.740 go

00:56:25.060 why don't

00:56:25.860 we win

00:56:26.380 I'm going

00:56:26.780 because you

00:56:27.360 behave like

00:56:28.140 dicks

00:56:28.660 if you

00:56:29.440 were nice

00:56:30.160 about it

00:56:30.560 not all

00:56:31.120 of the

00:56:31.360 left

00:56:31.580 I know

00:56:31.920 but there

00:56:32.260 is

00:56:32.460 an

00:56:32.960 absolute

00:56:33.680 fringe

00:56:34.220 of them

00:56:34.600 but what

00:56:35.220 is the

00:56:35.580 left

00:56:35.880 though

00:56:36.120 this is

00:56:36.540 what

00:56:36.800 I think

00:56:39.220 it

00:56:39.620 comes

00:56:40.180 down

00:56:40.440 to

00:56:40.560 almost

00:56:42.840 anything

00:56:43.560 once you

00:56:44.980 break it

00:56:45.440 down

00:56:45.860 you could

00:56:46.360 go

00:56:46.560 what

00:56:47.120 is

00:56:48.960 that

00:56:49.240 what

00:56:49.460 is

00:56:49.660 that

00:56:49.860 political

00:56:51.360 philosophy

00:56:52.020 what

00:56:52.360 is

00:56:52.540 that

00:56:52.800 race

00:56:53.780 how do

00:56:55.400 you define

00:56:55.900 someone

00:56:56.260 who is

00:56:56.680 Jewish

00:56:57.120 or is

00:56:57.680 an

00:56:57.800 Arab

00:56:58.060 it's

00:56:58.320 not

00:56:58.520 an

00:56:59.640 easy

00:56:59.900 thing

00:57:00.280 to

00:57:01.120 do

00:57:01.480 there's

00:57:04.380 a

00:57:04.460 brilliant

00:57:04.660 thing

00:57:04.940 isn't

00:57:05.140 the

00:57:05.300 Sartre

00:57:05.780 wrote a

00:57:06.180 book

00:57:06.340 about

00:57:06.640 that

00:57:06.940 and

00:57:07.680 of course

00:57:08.060 every

00:57:08.640 definition

00:57:09.180 you would

00:57:09.600 give

00:57:10.020 actually

00:57:10.700 breaks

00:57:11.300 down

00:57:11.780 except

00:57:13.440 for one

00:57:14.060 which is

00:57:14.600 that

00:57:14.860 Jewishness

00:57:15.380 is defined

00:57:16.060 by the

00:57:16.800 anti-Semite

00:57:17.520 so

00:57:18.780 obviously

00:57:19.760 the Third

00:57:20.740 Reich

00:57:21.180 had very

00:57:21.820 clear ideas

00:57:22.600 of what

00:57:22.880 was a

00:57:23.160 Jew

00:57:23.360 they needed

00:57:24.020 to define

00:57:24.640 it

00:57:24.860 and categorise

00:57:25.620 it

00:57:25.860 because

00:57:26.500 they wanted

00:57:27.340 to

00:57:27.720 know

00:57:28.420 who to

00:57:29.060 cut

00:57:29.440 away

00:57:29.860 but

00:57:30.960 it was

00:57:33.780 a great

00:57:34.080 detour

00:57:34.600 just

00:57:36.440 park it

00:57:37.080 there

00:57:37.460 the thing

00:57:39.220 about the

00:57:39.760 Jews

00:57:40.080 we went

00:57:41.780 from

00:57:42.000 Corbyn

00:57:42.480 to

00:57:42.640 Hitler

00:57:42.980 in the

00:57:43.380 space

00:57:43.660 of a

00:57:43.980 few

00:57:44.220 seconds

00:57:44.580 Corbyn

00:57:50.760 yeah

00:57:51.000 clearly

00:57:51.840 there were

00:57:52.220 clearly

00:57:52.680 there were

00:57:53.140 muster

00:57:53.480 I don't

00:57:53.920 I don't

00:57:54.460 right

00:57:54.880 things that

00:57:55.780 you could

00:57:56.060 say

00:57:56.400 that are

00:57:57.000 clearly

00:57:57.860 that should

00:57:58.520 not be

00:57:59.060 controversial

00:57:59.700 the Corbyn

00:58:00.900 project's

00:58:01.700 attitude

00:58:02.080 towards

00:58:03.000 the media

00:58:03.980 for example

00:58:04.880 I do not

00:58:05.620 think was

00:58:06.040 helpful

00:58:06.480 I think

00:58:07.320 that to

00:58:08.020 sort of

00:58:08.520 say

00:58:09.020 well the

00:58:10.360 media

00:58:10.800 the mainstream

00:58:11.500 media

00:58:12.020 is basically

00:58:12.980 not something

00:58:13.700 that we

00:58:14.200 want to

00:58:14.620 engage

00:58:15.140 around

00:58:15.560 because

00:58:16.040 that's

00:58:17.060 just

00:58:17.280 the media

00:58:17.780 and you

00:58:18.120 know

00:58:18.300 what

00:58:18.540 they're

00:58:18.820 like

00:58:19.160 and I

00:58:19.440 know

00:58:19.640 I've

00:58:19.860 come

00:58:19.980 across

00:58:20.200 people

00:58:20.500 who

00:58:20.680 would

00:58:20.840 call

00:58:21.040 themselves

00:58:21.260 on

00:58:21.440 the

00:58:21.560 left

00:58:21.800 who

00:58:21.980 would

00:58:22.200 very

00:58:22.880 much

00:58:23.120 have

00:58:23.300 that

00:58:23.480 attitude

00:58:23.920 dismissive

00:58:25.260 towards

00:58:25.600 the media

00:58:25.880 I think

00:58:26.320 that that's

00:58:26.780 not

00:58:27.040 I don't

00:58:27.540 think

00:58:27.660 that's

00:58:27.920 Marxist

00:58:28.540 for a

00:58:28.840 start

00:58:29.100 the media

00:58:29.700 isn't

00:58:30.520 a group

00:58:31.360 of

00:58:31.540 it isn't

00:58:32.300 just

00:58:32.480 Rupert

00:58:32.940 Murdoch

00:58:33.420 and Dacre

00:58:34.020 sitting there

00:58:35.120 like sort

00:58:35.700 of dictators

00:58:36.360 of some

00:58:36.860 planet

00:58:37.380 that you

00:58:37.720 might get

00:58:38.040 in Star

00:58:38.500 Trek

00:58:38.780 that just

00:58:39.160 run

00:58:39.440 everything

00:58:39.760 the media

00:58:40.700 is made

00:58:41.240 up of

00:58:41.720 it's a

00:58:43.000 huge

00:58:43.520 industry

00:58:44.120 the media

00:58:44.960 is someone

00:58:45.520 who you

00:58:45.820 might meet

00:58:46.380 from I

00:58:46.720 don't

00:58:46.860 know

00:58:47.000 from the

00:58:47.360 bright and

00:58:47.860 bloody

00:58:48.160 Argus

00:58:48.740 go and

00:58:49.540 talk to

00:58:50.000 them

00:58:50.180 establish a

00:58:50.940 relationship

00:58:51.420 with them

00:58:51.900 learn from

00:58:52.940 them

00:58:53.120 talk to

00:58:53.640 them

00:58:53.820 what are

00:58:54.140 the issues

00:58:54.620 in the

00:58:55.000 area

00:58:55.360 and so

00:58:55.840 on

00:58:56.020 meet up

00:58:56.480 with people

00:58:56.980 from the

00:58:57.840 media

00:58:58.280 you know

00:58:58.760 we will

00:58:59.340 work in

00:58:59.780 the media

00:59:00.140 I work with

00:59:00.820 people all

00:59:01.280 the time

00:59:01.740 in radio

00:59:02.500 they're

00:59:02.860 mainstream

00:59:03.260 media

00:59:03.820 most of

00:59:04.580 them are

00:59:04.760 wonderful

00:59:05.280 brilliant

00:59:05.700 people

00:59:06.240 and they

00:59:06.560 talk to

00:59:07.220 you about

00:59:07.540 ideas

00:59:08.140 and you

00:59:08.340 think

00:59:08.460 oh I

00:59:08.740 hadn't

00:59:08.880 thought of

00:59:09.300 that

00:59:09.500 and listen

00:59:09.920 and learn

00:59:10.280 to them

00:59:10.540 don't just

00:59:11.120 go I'm

00:59:11.420 not going

00:59:11.740 to go

00:59:12.880 on I

00:59:14.000 don't know

00:59:14.420 radio

00:59:14.840 five

00:59:15.420 Sunday

00:59:15.800 morning

00:59:16.080 politics

00:59:16.580 show

00:59:16.980 because it's

00:59:17.500 the BBC

00:59:18.360 and why

00:59:19.160 should I

00:59:19.460 go on

00:59:19.760 that

00:59:19.880 that's

00:59:20.180 an awful

00:59:20.900 attitude

00:59:21.340 and so

00:59:21.980 you know

00:59:22.600 that I

00:59:22.900 think that

00:59:23.480 there was

00:59:23.820 certainly

00:59:24.400 there was

00:59:25.020 certainly

00:59:25.480 that

00:59:25.960 there was

00:59:27.820 certainly

00:59:28.120 that from

00:59:28.700 from the

00:59:29.240 Corbyn

00:59:29.600 project

00:59:29.940 and I

00:59:30.500 think that

00:59:30.900 that didn't

00:59:31.420 do any

00:59:32.320 good at

00:59:32.840 all

00:59:33.060 I think

00:59:33.380 it's much

00:59:33.820 better to

00:59:34.240 go on

00:59:34.640 and John

00:59:35.380 McDonnell

00:59:35.820 for example

00:59:36.360 did go on

00:59:37.000 things and

00:59:37.360 come over

00:59:37.680 very well

00:59:38.120 was very

00:59:38.400 popular I

00:59:38.900 think

00:59:39.140 anyway

00:59:39.840 I don't

00:59:40.220 know

00:59:40.460 well Mark

00:59:41.040 that's

00:59:41.760 enough

00:59:42.160 that what

00:59:42.680 I've just

00:59:43.000 said is

00:59:43.340 enough

00:59:43.580 I mean

00:59:47.500 anyone who's

00:59:48.180 watching this

00:59:48.700 is used to

00:59:49.220 Corbyn

00:59:49.520 getting slagged

00:59:50.100 off I

00:59:50.380 promise you

00:59:50.920 but I'm

00:59:52.480 curious what

00:59:53.320 you think

00:59:53.800 from your

00:59:54.500 position

00:59:54.900 what I

00:59:55.400 hear out

00:59:56.140 of you

00:59:56.400 is you're

00:59:56.840 an old

00:59:57.120 school

00:59:57.320 lefty

00:59:57.800 right

00:59:58.280 you care

00:59:59.000 about

00:59:59.360 equality

01:00:00.200 you care

01:00:00.820 about

01:00:01.300 wages

01:00:02.020 you care

01:00:02.640 about

01:00:03.200 ownership

01:00:03.980 of

01:00:04.480 infrastructure

01:00:05.560 not being

01:00:06.340 in the

01:00:06.600 hands

01:00:06.880 of

01:00:07.580 people

01:00:08.800 who are

01:00:09.040 not

01:00:09.160 running

01:00:09.460 well

01:00:09.740 etc

01:00:10.080 the

01:00:12.120 question

01:00:12.500 obviously

01:00:13.160 there is

01:00:13.760 there's

01:00:14.420 almost

01:00:14.680 certainly

01:00:15.040 going to

01:00:15.300 be an

01:00:15.540 incoming

01:00:15.860 Labour

01:00:16.340 government

01:00:16.720 under

01:00:17.100 Keir

01:00:17.300 Starmer

01:00:17.700 by the

01:00:18.220 looks

01:00:18.400 of

01:00:18.540 the

01:00:18.700 politics

01:00:19.120 today

01:00:19.740 as it

01:00:20.060 is

01:00:20.280 are you

01:00:21.100 excited

01:00:21.640 from your

01:00:22.520 perspective

01:00:23.060 where you

01:00:24.020 sit on

01:00:24.420 the left

01:00:24.740 about that

01:00:25.500 prospect

01:00:25.880 no

01:00:27.440 this is

01:00:28.940 what I

01:00:29.160 meant

01:00:29.300 earlier

01:00:29.560 when I

01:00:29.840 said

01:00:30.000 there's

01:00:30.280 no one

01:00:30.560 you can

01:00:30.820 vote

01:00:31.000 for

01:00:31.160 that's

01:00:31.340 really

01:00:31.520 going

01:00:31.680 to

01:00:31.780 change

01:00:32.020 anything

01:00:32.280 but

01:00:32.500 please

01:00:32.800 tell me

01:00:33.100 more

01:00:33.380 well

01:00:35.400 this

01:00:35.600 I'll

01:00:36.080 repeat

01:00:36.340 a

01:00:36.560 discussion

01:00:37.000 I had

01:00:37.440 with

01:00:37.640 Matt

01:00:37.920 Ford

01:00:38.240 the

01:00:38.420 other

01:00:38.560 day

01:00:38.840 and

01:00:38.980 bearing

01:00:39.180 in

01:00:39.320 mind

01:00:39.440 Matt

01:00:39.680 Ford

01:00:39.920 is

01:00:40.080 very

01:00:40.320 much

01:00:40.760 someone

01:00:41.200 his

01:00:41.480 hero

01:00:42.040 is

01:00:42.280 Tony

01:00:42.560 Blair

01:00:42.840 I don't

01:00:43.080 think

01:00:43.180 that's

01:00:43.400 being

01:00:43.900 unkind

01:00:45.300 to him

01:00:45.700 to say

01:00:46.340 that

01:00:46.660 and

01:00:47.660 a

01:00:47.800 lovely

01:00:48.820 fellow

01:00:49.820 I really

01:00:50.100 like him

01:00:50.560 and

01:00:51.480 I like

01:00:52.620 most people

01:00:53.300 really

01:00:53.780 you're a nice guy

01:00:55.840 right

01:00:57.400 so

01:00:57.840 the

01:00:59.860 discussion

01:01:00.300 we were

01:01:00.520 having

01:01:00.700 I said

01:01:01.120 Matt

01:01:01.620 here's

01:01:01.940 something

01:01:02.180 that I

01:01:02.520 think

01:01:02.720 is

01:01:02.880 very

01:01:03.120 different

01:01:03.580 between

01:01:04.820 the

01:01:05.040 situation

01:01:05.520 we're

01:01:05.780 in

01:01:06.000 now

01:01:06.560 and

01:01:06.960 the

01:01:07.180 equivalent

01:01:07.640 situation

01:01:08.420 you might

01:01:09.380 say

01:01:09.760 in the

01:01:11.240 summer

01:01:11.460 of

01:01:11.640 1996

01:01:12.340 you know

01:01:13.120 a year

01:01:13.480 before

01:01:13.800 an

01:01:13.960 election

01:01:14.280 maybe

01:01:14.620 a little

01:01:14.860 bit

01:01:15.000 more

01:01:15.200 than

01:01:15.340 a year

01:01:15.640 before

01:01:15.820 an

01:01:15.940 election

01:01:16.240 now

01:01:16.660 Blair

01:01:17.900 people

01:01:18.260 remember

01:01:18.580 obviously

01:01:18.840 Iraq

01:01:19.340 and

01:01:20.140 he's

01:01:20.600 also

01:01:20.820 in

01:01:21.020 New

01:01:21.320 Labour

01:01:21.680 and

01:01:22.020 all

01:01:22.360 the

01:01:22.680 tearing

01:01:23.700 up

01:01:23.940 the

01:01:24.080 left

01:01:24.280 and

01:01:24.440 so

01:01:24.640 on

01:01:24.820 but

01:01:25.360 Blair

01:01:26.860 by

01:01:29.520 this

01:01:30.020 time

01:01:30.380 was

01:01:30.620 very

01:01:30.840 much

01:01:31.060 associated

01:01:31.700 with

01:01:32.160 bringing

01:01:32.820 in

01:01:33.020 the

01:01:33.140 minimum

01:01:33.380 wage

01:01:33.980 which

01:01:34.460 now

01:01:34.740 everybody

01:01:35.180 accepts

01:01:35.680 that

01:01:35.900 but

01:01:36.080 that

01:01:36.520 the

01:01:37.000 conservatives

01:01:37.520 were

01:01:37.860 going

01:01:38.080 this

01:01:38.420 will

01:01:38.540 cost

01:01:38.760 a

01:01:38.900 million

01:01:39.100 jobs

01:01:39.520 and

01:01:39.680 so

01:01:39.880 on

01:01:40.080 they

01:01:40.600 were

01:01:40.720 going

01:01:41.000 to

01:01:41.400 bring

01:01:41.880 in

01:01:42.020 a

01:01:42.140 windfall

01:01:42.580 tax

01:01:42.940 on

01:01:43.040 the

01:01:43.140 mobile

01:01:43.400 phone

01:01:43.740 companies

01:01:44.220 of

01:01:44.460 billions

01:01:44.860 of

01:01:45.060 pounds

01:01:45.320 and

01:01:45.480 use

01:01:45.720 that

01:01:45.920 for

01:01:46.100 sure

01:01:46.340 start

01:01:46.780 and

01:01:46.980 various

01:01:47.360 projects

01:01:47.820 NHS

01:01:48.220 and so

01:01:48.560 on

01:01:48.640 which

01:01:48.740 did

01:01:48.940 happen

01:01:49.260 there

01:01:50.660 was

01:01:50.880 devolution

01:01:51.460 for

01:01:51.720 Scotland

01:01:52.100 the

01:01:52.320 good

01:01:52.500 Friday

01:01:52.900 agreement

01:01:53.480 was

01:01:53.920 Blair

01:01:55.260 was

01:01:55.520 quite

01:01:56.180 central

01:01:56.660 to

01:01:56.880 wasn't

01:01:57.080 he

01:01:57.160 I

01:01:57.220 know

01:01:57.340 John

01:01:57.540 Major

01:01:57.780 was

01:01:57.940 as

01:01:58.080 well

01:01:58.360 there

01:01:59.760 the

01:02:00.080 gay

01:02:00.420 civil

01:02:00.740 marriage

01:02:01.300 and

01:02:02.860 abolishing

01:02:03.660 fox

01:02:04.420 hunting

01:02:04.820 right

01:02:05.360 which

01:02:05.620 is

01:02:05.780 easy

01:02:06.000 to

01:02:06.200 dismiss

01:02:06.500 but

01:02:06.820 at

01:02:06.960 the

01:02:07.100 time

01:02:07.480 a

01:02:07.680 combination

01:02:08.080 of

01:02:08.420 all

01:02:08.580 those

01:02:08.880 things

01:02:09.320 plus

01:02:09.960 the

01:02:10.160 fact

01:02:10.440 it

01:02:10.580 was

01:02:10.760 sort

01:02:11.000 of

01:02:11.180 there

01:02:11.540 was

01:02:11.680 so

01:02:11.900 many

01:02:12.120 there

01:02:12.700 were

01:02:12.860 openly

01:02:13.440 gay

01:02:13.860 people

01:02:14.340 and

01:02:14.560 lots

01:02:16.060 of

01:02:16.260 women

01:02:16.540 and so

01:02:16.900 on

01:02:16.980 it

01:02:17.040 just

01:02:17.300 looked

01:02:17.860 the

01:02:18.400 whole

01:02:18.780 sense

01:02:19.240 of

01:02:19.400 it

01:02:19.540 felt

01:02:20.000 like

01:02:20.680 there

01:02:21.680 was

01:02:21.840 a

01:02:22.020 radicalism

01:02:23.100 to

01:02:23.460 it

01:02:23.640 felt

01:02:23.980 like

01:02:24.140 there

01:02:24.360 was

01:02:24.500 a

01:02:24.660 radicalism

01:02:25.400 to

01:02:26.120 I

01:02:27.000 was

01:02:27.200 never

01:02:27.400 a

01:02:27.580 fan

01:02:27.740 of

01:02:27.880 Tony

01:02:28.100 Blair

01:02:28.300 even

01:02:28.580 in

01:02:28.740 those

01:02:28.980 days

01:02:29.220 but

01:02:29.680 it

01:02:30.400 felt

01:02:30.920 like

01:02:31.180 there

01:02:31.300 was

01:02:31.400 a

01:02:31.540 sense

01:02:31.760 of

01:02:31.880 excitement

01:02:32.420 it

01:02:32.720 felt

01:02:33.020 like

01:02:33.260 something

01:02:33.660 was

01:02:33.900 going

01:02:34.080 to

01:02:34.280 change

01:02:34.740 if

01:02:35.220 you

01:02:35.380 ask

01:02:35.660 someone

01:02:36.200 what

01:02:37.200 will

01:02:37.520 change

01:02:38.120 if

01:02:39.080 Tony

01:02:39.360 Blair

01:02:39.540 becomes

01:02:39.920 Prime

01:02:40.200 Minister

01:02:40.520 most

01:02:41.320 people

01:02:41.740 could

01:02:42.040 reel

01:02:42.320 three

01:02:42.740 or

01:02:42.900 four

01:02:43.120 of

01:02:43.300 those

01:02:43.580 things

01:02:43.880 now

01:02:47.400 is

01:02:47.760 that

01:02:48.020 true

01:02:48.440 with

01:02:49.080 Starmer

01:02:49.640 I've

01:02:50.320 got

01:02:50.460 a

01:02:50.740 line

01:02:51.380 I've

01:02:51.500 been

01:02:51.620 saying

01:02:51.840 about

01:02:52.060 Starler's

01:02:52.600 great

01:02:53.140 genius

01:02:53.640 is

01:02:54.380 he

01:02:54.520 says

01:02:54.820 nothing

01:02:55.200 and

01:02:55.580 then

01:02:55.700 a

01:02:55.820 week

01:02:55.960 later

01:02:56.200 goes

01:02:56.460 back

01:02:56.760 on

01:02:56.920 it

01:02:57.320 about

01:02:59.560 a

01:03:02.000 year

01:03:02.300 ago

01:03:02.700 I

01:03:03.000 started

01:03:03.440 to be

01:03:03.660 excited

01:03:04.040 when

01:03:04.240 he

01:03:04.380 was

01:03:04.560 made

01:03:04.820 it

01:03:05.000 we're

01:03:05.400 definitely

01:03:05.760 going

01:03:05.980 to

01:03:06.240 bring

01:03:06.900 the

01:03:07.180 railways

01:03:07.720 back

01:03:07.940 into

01:03:08.180 public

01:03:08.680 ownership

01:03:09.120 now

01:03:10.820 I

01:03:11.000 don't

01:03:11.120 think

01:03:11.240 he

01:03:11.380 doesn't

01:03:11.920 mention

01:03:12.360 that

01:03:12.640 the

01:03:12.840 water

01:03:13.180 he's

01:03:13.360 not

01:03:13.500 I

01:03:14.020 don't

01:03:14.240 know

01:03:14.380 what

01:03:14.600 he's

01:03:14.780 going

01:03:14.920 to

01:03:15.020 do

01:03:15.320 do

01:03:15.900 you

01:03:16.080 know

01:03:16.280 I

01:03:16.460 don't

01:03:16.740 know

01:03:17.100 I

01:03:17.580 follow

01:03:18.240 these

01:03:18.480 things

01:03:18.680 more

01:03:18.860 than

01:03:18.980 most

01:03:19.180 people

01:03:19.380 I

01:03:19.560 don't

01:03:19.700 know

01:03:19.820 what

01:03:20.000 he's

01:03:20.160 planning

01:03:20.400 to do

01:03:20.740 it's

01:03:21.000 just

01:03:21.260 Britain

01:03:22.500 can't

01:03:22.920 do

01:03:23.100 better

01:03:23.580 can't

01:03:24.520 do

01:03:24.660 it

01:03:24.960 Mark

01:03:26.180 do you

01:03:26.440 think

01:03:26.560 the

01:03:26.700 problem

01:03:26.980 is

01:03:27.360 is

01:03:27.640 that

01:03:27.820 the

01:03:28.100 conservatives

01:03:28.940 have been

01:03:29.440 so

01:03:29.840 appallingly

01:03:30.920 useless

01:03:31.560 that he

01:03:32.720 doesn't

01:03:33.060 really need

01:03:33.600 to offer

01:03:33.960 an

01:03:34.100 opposition

01:03:34.520 all he

01:03:35.040 needs

01:03:35.240 to do

01:03:35.600 is

01:03:35.840 basically

01:03:36.240 stand

01:03:36.660 back

01:03:37.020 watch

01:03:37.780 conservatives

01:03:38.560 implode

01:03:39.300 and he

01:03:39.740 knows

01:03:39.960 he's

01:03:40.160 going

01:03:40.280 to

01:03:40.360 win

01:03:40.500 anyway

01:03:40.800 so

01:03:41.040 why

01:03:41.360 would

01:03:41.580 he

01:03:41.800 make

01:03:42.920 policy

01:03:43.540 pronouncements

01:03:44.500 when

01:03:45.140 he

01:03:45.520 doesn't

01:03:45.760 have

01:03:45.980 to

01:03:46.080 I

01:03:46.200 suppose

01:03:46.500 that's

01:03:46.760 his

01:03:46.900 thinking

01:03:47.240 isn't

01:03:47.560 it

01:03:47.780 I

01:03:48.600 suppose

01:03:48.920 that's

01:03:49.160 his

01:03:49.280 thinking

01:03:49.500 but

01:03:49.840 I

01:03:51.220 don't

01:03:52.220 know

01:03:52.540 what do

01:03:54.080 I know

01:03:54.460 I stood

01:03:55.300 for election

01:03:55.760 once I was

01:03:56.320 fucking

01:03:56.640 useless

01:03:57.100 and

01:03:58.960 so

01:04:00.140 I can't

01:04:01.920 I know

01:04:02.940 what you

01:04:03.220 mean

01:04:03.420 but do

01:04:04.040 you

01:04:04.200 not

01:04:04.480 because

01:04:05.420 you should

01:04:06.060 be excited

01:04:06.760 as a

01:04:07.120 lefty

01:04:07.440 that Labour

01:04:07.880 are going

01:04:08.120 to get

01:04:08.520 back in

01:04:09.020 surely

01:04:09.340 we've

01:04:09.560 had a

01:04:09.740 conservative

01:04:10.160 government

01:04:10.660 for

01:04:10.980 13

01:04:12.200 14

01:04:12.740 years

01:04:13.160 this

01:04:13.440 should

01:04:13.640 be

01:04:13.780 a

01:04:13.960 galvanising

01:04:14.620 moment

01:04:15.100 I don't

01:04:15.480 feel

01:04:15.820 excited

01:04:16.240 I felt

01:04:16.580 more

01:04:16.820 excited

01:04:17.200 I mean

01:04:17.420 when

01:04:18.260 Blair

01:04:18.640 the night

01:04:19.020 Blair

01:04:19.260 got in

01:04:19.700 I had

01:04:20.220 a

01:04:20.440 wonderful

01:04:21.340 time

01:04:21.720 and I

01:04:21.940 wasn't

01:04:22.160 a fan

01:04:22.480 of

01:04:22.740 Blair's

01:04:23.340 at all

01:04:23.940 I was

01:04:24.120 at the

01:04:24.340 Croydon

01:04:24.660 Labour

01:04:24.960 Club

01:04:25.300 fantastic

01:04:26.460 night

01:04:26.940 it was

01:04:27.160 just

01:04:27.380 brilliant

01:04:27.740 all these

01:04:28.220 people

01:04:28.660 who had

01:04:28.960 seen

01:04:29.100 and there

01:04:29.380 and I'd

01:04:30.420 been in

01:04:30.640 the same

01:04:31.160 room

01:04:31.500 in 1992

01:04:32.140 and everyone

01:04:32.940 was awful

01:04:34.460 and people

01:04:34.880 started

01:04:35.140 scrapping

01:04:36.080 and arguing

01:04:36.560 with each

01:04:36.940 other

01:04:37.160 and stuff

01:04:37.500 it doesn't

01:04:38.040 sound like

01:04:38.260 the left

01:04:38.600 mark

01:04:38.820 no

01:04:39.280 no

01:04:39.580 no

01:04:39.780 exactly

01:04:41.380 exactly

01:04:42.940 I was

01:04:45.180 trying to

01:04:45.420 think of

01:04:45.680 a joke

01:04:46.060 I had

01:04:46.460 I used

01:04:46.740 to do

01:04:46.960 left wing

01:04:47.740 benefits

01:04:48.280 was about

01:04:48.760 when the

01:04:49.920 police

01:04:50.300 would go

01:04:50.640 there was

01:04:50.900 an organised

01:04:51.820 left

01:04:53.620 on the

01:04:53.960 demonstration

01:04:54.620 that's how

01:04:55.320 you know

01:04:55.700 they were

01:04:56.000 lying

01:04:56.320 the left

01:04:57.220 is never

01:04:57.820 organised

01:04:58.480 how did

01:04:59.180 it go

01:04:59.540 if the

01:05:00.940 police

01:05:01.320 had the

01:05:01.740 same

01:05:01.960 level of

01:05:02.300 organisation

01:05:02.800 on

01:05:03.940 demonstrations

01:05:04.580 as the

01:05:05.320 left

01:05:05.700 they'd

01:05:06.880 just be

01:05:07.220 going

01:05:07.520 oh shit

01:05:08.500 we've

01:05:08.740 locked

01:05:08.880 the

01:05:09.040 truncheons

01:05:09.480 in the

01:05:09.760 pan

01:05:09.960 that's

01:05:11.540 basically

01:05:11.920 where they've

01:05:12.340 got to

01:05:12.740 by the

01:05:13.460 looks of

01:05:13.800 things

01:05:14.080 at this

01:05:14.740 point

01:05:15.040 Mark

01:05:16.060 we're

01:05:16.860 running

01:05:17.100 out of

01:05:17.420 time

01:05:17.640 oh no

01:05:18.340 I'm

01:05:18.760 just

01:05:19.300 getting

01:05:19.500 going

01:05:19.840 it's

01:05:21.220 been a

01:05:21.620 real

01:05:21.880 pleasure

01:05:22.140 talking

01:05:22.460 to you

01:05:22.740 before

01:05:22.920 we

01:05:23.100 go

01:05:23.220 to

01:05:23.440 our

01:05:23.940 last

01:05:24.160 question

01:05:24.500 I

01:05:25.020 wanted

01:05:25.300 to

01:05:25.560 ask

01:05:25.840 you

01:05:26.020 you've

01:05:26.460 had

01:05:26.580 a

01:05:26.780 long

01:05:27.140 stand-up

01:05:27.940 career

01:05:28.240 and

01:05:29.040 it's

01:05:29.420 always

01:05:30.120 an

01:05:30.340 evolution

01:05:30.760 right

01:05:31.320 creatively

01:05:31.900 it's

01:05:32.180 an

01:05:32.280 evolution

01:05:32.680 in

01:05:33.000 terms

01:05:33.220 of

01:05:33.360 your

01:05:33.480 views

01:05:33.840 it's

01:05:34.080 an

01:05:34.180 evolution

01:05:34.580 you

01:05:35.260 were

01:05:35.440 telling

01:05:35.660 me

01:05:35.860 on the

01:05:36.360 way

01:05:36.500 here

01:05:36.680 how much

01:05:37.040 you're

01:05:37.260 enjoying

01:05:37.860 performing

01:05:38.520 in a

01:05:39.520 way

01:05:39.660 that you

01:05:39.980 might have

01:05:40.380 been more

01:05:40.800 apprehensive

01:05:41.320 in the

01:05:41.620 past

01:05:41.980 or worrying

01:05:42.500 about

01:05:42.980 this gig

01:05:44.460 didn't quite

01:05:44.960 go as well

01:05:45.420 as that

01:05:45.740 gig

01:05:46.000 like

01:05:46.500 what have

01:05:46.920 you learned

01:05:47.420 learned over

01:05:47.720 a whole

01:05:48.000 career

01:05:48.340 as a

01:05:48.660 creator

01:05:49.120 as a

01:05:49.480 performer

01:05:49.960 something

01:05:51.500 for people

01:05:52.040 watching this

01:05:52.620 who are

01:05:52.800 maybe up

01:05:53.180 and coming

01:05:53.600 I think

01:05:54.600 you've

01:05:54.840 got to

01:05:55.340 it sounds

01:05:57.500 like such

01:05:57.860 a trite

01:05:58.560 thing

01:05:58.800 but I

01:05:59.080 think

01:05:59.260 you've

01:05:59.480 got to

01:05:59.980 sort

01:06:00.460 of

01:06:00.640 find a

01:06:01.020 way

01:06:01.180 of

01:06:01.360 really

01:06:01.800 enjoying

01:06:02.380 it

01:06:02.700 and the

01:06:03.440 audience

01:06:03.860 will

01:06:04.360 know

01:06:06.000 that

01:06:06.480 and all

01:06:07.560 the little

01:06:07.900 details

01:06:08.140 something

01:06:08.640 I'm only

01:06:09.000 really

01:06:09.360 just

01:06:09.600 learning

01:06:09.840 all the

01:06:10.340 little

01:06:10.600 details

01:06:11.500 and stuff

01:06:12.260 that you

01:06:12.520 do

01:06:12.740 if you're

01:06:13.040 an

01:06:13.160 actor

01:06:13.600 you know

01:06:14.360 and you're

01:06:15.000 in the

01:06:15.480 six weeks

01:06:16.040 before a

01:06:16.580 play starts

01:06:17.260 a director

01:06:17.900 will say

01:06:18.460 try it

01:06:19.240 like this

01:06:19.740 move over

01:06:20.380 there

01:06:20.720 be physical

01:06:21.840 in a

01:06:22.160 different

01:06:22.400 way

01:06:22.800 and as

01:06:23.420 comics

01:06:23.780 we sort

01:06:24.300 of don't

01:06:24.740 really

01:06:25.100 we don't

01:06:26.120 really apply

01:06:26.680 that same

01:06:27.160 discipline

01:06:27.580 and it's

01:06:28.140 and I've

01:06:28.720 been trying

01:06:29.040 to do

01:06:29.300 that

01:06:29.580 lately

01:06:29.940 and I've

01:06:30.280 been trying

01:06:30.560 to go

01:06:30.780 through every

01:06:31.120 little bit

01:06:31.640 and think

01:06:32.040 if I'm

01:06:32.700 doing an

01:06:33.040 impression

01:06:33.580 just spend

01:06:34.700 an hour

01:06:35.060 getting it

01:06:35.620 right

01:06:36.100 and it

01:06:36.420 goes

01:06:36.700 better

01:06:37.060 it's

01:06:37.300 better

01:06:37.580 it's

01:06:37.720 more fun

01:06:38.300 you know

01:06:38.600 move in

01:06:39.500 a certain

01:06:39.920 way

01:06:40.260 do something

01:06:40.860 just enjoy

01:06:42.140 doing things

01:06:42.960 a little

01:06:43.280 bit better

01:06:44.480 really

01:06:44.900 and don't

01:06:48.320 forget

01:06:49.460 to while

01:06:50.100 you're on

01:06:50.460 stage

01:06:50.960 to have

01:06:51.340 a moment

01:06:51.760 where you

01:06:52.180 think

01:06:52.500 I'm enjoying

01:06:53.780 this

01:06:54.200 this is

01:06:54.500 special

01:06:54.780 I'm lucky

01:06:55.800 you know

01:06:56.100 I'm in

01:06:56.300 these beautiful

01:06:56.920 theatres

01:06:57.600 and stuff

01:06:58.140 not always

01:06:59.880 sometimes in

01:07:01.380 Croydon

01:07:02.240 for example

01:07:02.740 the Fairfield

01:07:03.440 always very

01:07:04.080 much Soviet

01:07:05.440 Union

01:07:05.820 1952

01:07:06.740 but it's

01:07:08.060 no I've

01:07:10.460 really

01:07:10.800 what changed

01:07:11.760 for you

01:07:12.100 how did

01:07:12.560 you go

01:07:12.940 from

01:07:13.420 the state

01:07:14.380 that most

01:07:14.900 stand-up

01:07:15.660 siren

01:07:15.980 which is

01:07:16.620 oh

01:07:17.180 didn't quite

01:07:17.900 get a big

01:07:18.440 enough laugh

01:07:18.960 there

01:07:19.160 this didn't

01:07:19.640 happen

01:07:19.900 that

01:07:20.120 to the

01:07:20.820 point

01:07:21.000 you're

01:07:21.240 talking

01:07:21.420 I'm still

01:07:21.640 a neurotic

01:07:22.460 mess

01:07:23.140 I'm still

01:07:24.040 the same

01:07:24.680 fruit bat

01:07:25.780 so how did

01:07:26.440 you become

01:07:26.820 slightly less

01:07:27.620 fruit bat

01:07:28.040 is where I'm

01:07:28.460 getting at

01:07:28.800 no I don't

01:07:29.140 think I am

01:07:29.540 less fruit bat

01:07:30.160 I think I've

01:07:30.640 just accepted

01:07:31.380 that I'm

01:07:31.900 less fruit bat

01:07:32.460 I think

01:07:32.820 I think a

01:07:33.560 big thing

01:07:34.120 for me

01:07:34.720 was

01:07:35.320 obviously

01:07:36.540 if people

01:07:38.120 know me

01:07:38.480 they know me

01:07:38.880 mostly through

01:07:39.520 a radio

01:07:39.900 series called

01:07:40.720 Mark Steeles

01:07:41.200 in town

01:07:41.660 where I go

01:07:42.020 around the

01:07:42.880 towns of

01:07:44.100 Britain

01:07:44.420 me and the

01:07:45.500 producer pick

01:07:46.160 six a year

01:07:46.940 and we go

01:07:47.800 and have to

01:07:48.200 write a whole

01:07:49.000 show about

01:07:49.840 the town

01:07:50.400 and do it

01:07:50.940 in front of

01:07:51.380 people in

01:07:51.720 the town

01:07:52.140 and be as

01:07:53.860 rude as

01:07:54.540 possible

01:07:54.880 and get

01:07:55.440 away with

01:07:55.900 it

01:07:56.060 it's why

01:07:57.000 the people

01:07:57.980 who get

01:07:58.460 obsessed

01:07:59.100 with how

01:08:00.120 dare you

01:08:00.780 say that

01:08:01.640 those sorts

01:08:03.140 of people

01:08:03.580 that's the

01:08:04.080 mistake

01:08:04.600 they make

01:08:05.300 left and

01:08:06.060 right do

01:08:06.600 this

01:08:06.980 they both

01:08:07.580 do it

01:08:07.960 they'll go

01:08:08.700 the right

01:08:10.580 might go

01:08:11.000 Frankie Boyle

01:08:11.920 said this

01:08:12.720 how dare they

01:08:13.720 and the

01:08:14.720 left might

01:08:15.700 go

01:08:16.080 someone else

01:08:18.360 someone that

01:08:18.980 we don't like

01:08:19.820 said this

01:08:20.420 how dare they

01:08:21.120 and what

01:08:22.280 if you just

01:08:23.540 transcribe the

01:08:24.340 words on a

01:08:24.880 page you

01:08:25.340 don't see

01:08:25.880 the twinkle

01:08:26.860 in the eye

01:08:27.480 and that's

01:08:28.520 everything

01:08:29.120 and so

01:08:30.900 in the

01:08:31.360 Mark Steeles

01:08:31.820 in town

01:08:32.260 series

01:08:32.680 I have to

01:08:34.000 like the

01:08:35.020 place

01:08:35.360 I have to

01:08:36.160 and I do

01:08:36.960 I go to

01:08:37.660 these places

01:08:38.160 every single

01:08:39.220 one

01:08:39.380 I've done

01:08:39.660 60 of

01:08:40.300 these

01:08:40.440 programs

01:08:40.860 now

01:08:41.160 every single

01:08:42.240 one of

01:08:42.660 them

01:08:43.060 I get

01:08:43.800 there

01:08:44.180 and within

01:08:44.980 a couple

01:08:45.400 of days

01:08:45.820 I've met

01:08:46.140 a load

01:08:46.660 of people

01:08:47.080 who are

01:08:47.360 just

01:08:47.520 brilliant

01:08:48.340 and they're

01:08:48.800 passionate

01:08:49.220 and they

01:08:49.560 love the

01:08:50.020 place

01:08:50.400 and they

01:08:51.040 love the

01:08:51.700 fact that

01:08:52.040 there's a

01:08:52.320 barman

01:08:53.460 who everybody

01:08:54.460 knows in

01:08:55.120 that pub

01:08:55.820 who's just

01:08:56.580 horrible

01:08:57.200 and it's

01:08:57.820 funny

01:08:58.340 or there

01:08:58.900 was a

01:08:59.140 bloke in

01:08:59.580 Shrewsbury

01:09:00.140 there was a

01:09:00.940 bloke who

01:09:02.420 ran the

01:09:02.820 park

01:09:03.280 and he was

01:09:03.900 horrible to

01:09:04.760 everybody

01:09:05.300 and I

01:09:06.080 spent half

01:09:07.300 an hour

01:09:07.580 with him

01:09:07.880 and watched

01:09:08.180 him just

01:09:08.500 shout at

01:09:08.980 everybody

01:09:09.320 and did a

01:09:09.680 little impression

01:09:10.240 of him

01:09:10.500 in the

01:09:10.760 show

01:09:11.040 and you

01:09:11.560 just do

01:09:12.020 enough

01:09:12.480 you learn

01:09:13.400 enough

01:09:13.700 about the

01:09:14.160 place

01:09:14.580 that you

01:09:15.220 can be

01:09:15.800 horrible

01:09:16.680 about it

01:09:17.400 in a way

01:09:18.060 that shows

01:09:18.560 you love

01:09:19.020 it

01:09:19.280 in a way

01:09:20.260 that you

01:09:20.520 will with

01:09:20.840 a mate

01:09:21.240 you know

01:09:21.560 like if

01:09:21.900 you've got

01:09:22.200 a really

01:09:22.680 good mate

01:09:23.300 you can

01:09:23.940 go what's

01:09:24.240 the fucking

01:09:24.920 matter with

01:09:25.360 you

01:09:25.580 you fucking

01:09:26.420 useless

01:09:26.860 swat

01:09:27.260 if you were

01:09:27.820 just to

01:09:28.100 write that

01:09:28.460 on a

01:09:28.740 page

01:09:29.140 how dare

01:09:30.120 you

01:09:30.400 but it's

01:09:31.080 said with

01:09:31.520 such

01:09:31.940 love

01:09:33.220 you know

01:09:35.300 saying it

01:09:35.800 to someone

01:09:36.260 at random

01:09:36.860 and I

01:09:37.840 think

01:09:38.260 that

01:09:38.940 doing that

01:09:40.320 the last

01:09:40.720 12-13

01:09:41.520 years

01:09:41.880 I've done

01:09:42.220 that show

01:09:43.120 first of all

01:09:43.940 one very

01:09:44.500 quick example

01:09:45.380 two very

01:09:45.880 quick examples

01:09:46.440 last year

01:09:47.540 I did

01:09:47.920 Newport

01:09:48.580 and

01:09:49.540 as I was

01:09:50.580 about to

01:09:50.920 do it

01:09:51.100 I thought

01:09:51.260 I can't

01:09:51.640 do this

01:09:51.880 this was

01:09:52.180 Newport

01:09:52.540 a very

01:09:53.060 industrial

01:09:53.460 town

01:09:53.980 and one

01:09:54.620 of the

01:09:54.740 opening

01:09:55.240 lines

01:09:55.660 was this

01:09:56.000 is a

01:09:56.280 town

01:09:56.540 built

01:09:56.860 on the

01:09:57.280 mines

01:09:57.820 and the

01:09:58.740 docks

01:09:59.560 and grime

01:10:00.900 and squalor

01:10:02.220 and now

01:10:03.620 I don't know

01:10:04.100 how you've

01:10:04.580 done this

01:10:05.040 the mines

01:10:05.720 and docks

01:10:06.280 have gone

01:10:06.720 but the

01:10:07.300 grime

01:10:07.640 and squalor

01:10:08.240 I don't know

01:10:09.560 how you've

01:10:09.900 managed that

01:10:10.520 and I was

01:10:11.120 always doing

01:10:11.460 I thought

01:10:11.720 I can't

01:10:12.380 say this

01:10:12.660 and they

01:10:13.000 go nuts

01:10:13.720 and cheer

01:10:14.240 or in

01:10:15.440 Gibraltar

01:10:16.160 when we

01:10:16.640 were doing

01:10:17.160 it in

01:10:17.380 Gibraltar

01:10:17.940 I said

01:10:18.300 to the

01:10:18.460 people

01:10:18.580 there's

01:10:18.700 only one

01:10:19.140 possible

01:10:19.640 opening

01:10:19.980 line

01:10:20.360 I'm so

01:10:21.380 pleased

01:10:21.760 at last

01:10:22.160 to be

01:10:22.340 able to

01:10:22.480 do

01:10:22.600 this

01:10:22.820 show

01:10:23.040 in

01:10:23.200 Spain

01:10:23.620 that's

01:10:24.180 the

01:10:24.280 only

01:10:24.520 possible

01:10:25.040 line

01:10:25.380 we

01:10:25.540 can

01:10:25.700 start

01:10:26.020 with

01:10:26.280 and

01:10:26.760 people

01:10:27.060 going

01:10:27.340 you

01:10:27.700 can't

01:10:28.120 start

01:10:28.400 with

01:10:28.560 that

01:10:28.760 but

01:10:29.060 you

01:10:29.200 can

01:10:29.620 because

01:10:30.320 they

01:10:31.320 know

01:10:31.660 I'm

01:10:31.980 doing

01:10:32.200 it

01:10:32.360 on

01:10:32.520 purpose

01:10:33.120 they

01:10:33.720 know

01:10:34.140 it's

01:10:34.400 deliberate

01:10:34.780 you

01:10:35.280 could

01:10:35.560 do

01:10:35.820 it

01:10:36.080 if

01:10:36.460 you

01:10:36.580 went

01:10:36.760 yeah

01:10:37.380 I'm

01:10:37.780 in

01:10:37.880 Spain

01:10:38.360 they go

01:10:38.860 fuck

01:10:39.200 off

01:10:39.440 or if

01:10:40.260 you

01:10:40.340 did

01:10:40.480 it

01:10:40.580 out

01:10:40.740 of

01:10:40.860 ignorance

01:10:41.300 but

01:10:41.660 if

01:10:41.820 you

01:10:41.920 do

01:10:42.060 it

01:10:42.160 like

01:10:42.460 you

01:10:43.860 can't

01:10:45.000 fake

01:10:45.480 that

01:10:45.780 and I

01:10:46.400 spent

01:10:46.860 a week

01:10:47.320 there

01:10:47.660 and I

01:10:48.060 loved

01:10:48.420 the

01:10:48.560 people

01:10:48.780 there

01:10:48.960 it

01:10:49.120 was

01:10:49.260 just

01:10:49.420 a

01:10:49.600 brilliant

01:10:49.900 I

01:10:50.080 think

01:10:50.200 all

01:10:50.420 the

01:10:50.600 sort

01:10:52.040 of

01:10:52.260 characterisation

01:10:53.400 of

01:10:53.600 Gibraltar

01:10:54.080 being

01:10:54.400 this

01:10:59.060 they

01:11:08.200 think

01:11:08.480 I've

01:11:08.720 learned

01:11:08.980 from

01:11:09.180 that

01:11:09.520 you

01:11:10.140 really

01:11:11.240 got to

01:11:11.620 like

01:11:12.120 people

01:11:12.720 you

01:11:13.280 really

01:11:13.600 got to

01:11:13.900 want

01:11:14.040 to

01:11:14.160 see

01:11:14.400 people

01:11:14.760 at

01:11:14.920 their

01:11:15.100 best

01:11:15.680 and

01:11:16.260 I

01:11:16.400 think

01:11:16.600 if

01:11:16.740 you're

01:11:16.880 trying

01:11:17.020 to

01:11:17.140 change

01:11:17.440 the

01:11:17.580 world

01:11:17.720 and

01:11:17.840 make

01:11:18.020 it

01:11:18.140 more

01:11:18.460 equal

01:11:19.280 and

01:11:19.600 make

01:11:19.860 it

01:11:20.000 less

01:11:20.300 racist

01:11:21.060 and

01:11:21.280 make

01:11:21.540 it

01:11:21.760 so

01:11:23.040 that

01:11:23.220 it

01:11:23.400 serves

01:11:23.840 more

01:11:24.080 people

01:11:24.480 you've

01:11:25.120 got

01:11:25.320 to

01:11:25.560 start

01:11:26.180 from

01:11:26.460 that

01:11:26.740 point

01:11:27.140 of

01:11:27.280 view

01:11:27.340 I

01:11:27.460 think

01:11:27.620 there's

01:11:27.800 so

01:11:28.020 many

01:11:28.160 people

01:11:28.420 are

01:11:28.560 left

01:11:28.820 as

01:11:29.380 well

01:11:29.580 as

01:11:29.720 the

01:11:29.880 right

01:11:30.120 who

01:11:30.340 really

01:11:30.660 basically

01:11:31.180 don't

01:11:31.500 really

01:11:31.820 like

01:11:32.780 people

01:11:33.340 and

01:11:34.420 I

01:11:34.620 think

01:11:35.120 if

01:11:35.300 you're

01:11:35.460 going

01:11:35.560 to

01:11:35.640 be

01:11:35.800 a

01:11:36.120 stand

01:11:36.580 up

01:11:36.780 you've

01:11:37.140 got

01:11:37.340 to

01:11:37.460 do

01:11:37.620 that

01:11:37.960 you're

01:11:38.360 trying

01:11:39.300 to

01:11:39.400 make

01:11:39.560 them

01:11:39.680 laugh

01:11:40.120 you've

01:11:40.940 got

01:11:41.040 to

01:11:41.180 like

01:11:41.520 them

01:11:41.880 such

01:11:42.700 a

01:11:42.860 profound

01:11:43.260 point

01:11:43.620 Mark

01:11:43.840 thank

01:11:44.080 you

01:11:44.320 it's

01:11:44.680 been

01:11:44.860 an

01:11:45.080 absolute

01:11:45.740 pleasure

01:11:46.140 to

01:11:46.340 have

01:11:46.500 you

01:11:46.620 on

01:11:46.740 the

01:11:46.880 show

01:11:47.040 the

01:11:47.200 question

01:11:47.480 we

01:11:47.620 always

01:11:47.840 finish

01:11:48.080 is

01:11:48.240 what's

01:11:48.440 the

01:11:48.520 one

01:11:48.640 thing

01:11:48.780 we're

01:11:48.900 not

01:11:49.060 talking

01:11:49.380 about

01:11:49.680 as

01:11:50.280 a

01:11:50.420 society

01:11:50.880 that

01:11:51.160 we

01:11:51.340 really

01:11:51.720 should

01:11:51.940 be

01:11:52.240 oh

01:11:54.200 god

01:11:54.420 I

01:11:54.520 so

01:11:54.820 much

01:11:55.400 want

01:11:55.560 to

01:11:55.680 say

01:11:55.860 something

01:11:56.120 earlier

01:11:56.540 comic

01:11:57.020 go on

01:11:58.220 say it

01:11:59.060 say it

01:11:59.540 rights

01:12:00.440 for

01:12:00.660 serial

01:12:01.160 killers

01:12:01.720 what's

01:12:07.700 the

01:12:08.320 question

01:12:08.580 again

01:12:08.840 what's

01:12:09.800 the

01:12:09.880 one

01:12:10.020 thing

01:12:10.220 we're

01:12:10.380 not

01:12:10.520 talking

01:12:10.880 about

01:12:11.140 as

01:12:11.400 a

01:12:11.540 society

01:12:12.020 that

01:12:12.420 we

01:12:12.520 really

01:12:12.720 should

01:12:12.960 be

01:12:13.200 this

01:12:16.980 was

01:12:17.200 an

01:12:17.340 issue

01:12:17.540 when I

01:12:17.820 got

01:12:17.980 here

01:12:18.240 cushions

01:12:19.240 yeah

01:12:19.880 I

01:12:20.200 fucking

01:12:20.680 hate

01:12:20.960 them

01:12:21.300 can't

01:12:23.600 be

01:12:23.720 doing

01:12:23.920 with

01:12:24.100 them

01:12:24.200 women

01:12:24.380 love

01:12:24.660 cushions

01:12:25.140 do

01:12:26.600 they

01:12:26.820 yeah

01:12:27.140 they

01:12:27.380 do

01:12:27.880 whenever

01:12:28.160 I'm

01:12:28.960 going

01:12:29.160 wrong

01:12:29.500 yeah

01:12:29.940 that

01:12:31.220 explains

01:12:31.780 30

01:12:32.220 years

01:12:32.620 I

01:12:35.900 mean

01:12:36.000 that's

01:12:36.260 not

01:12:36.380 the

01:12:36.520 only

01:12:36.720 thing

01:12:36.940 they

01:12:37.100 require

01:12:37.580 but

01:12:37.860 yeah

01:12:38.380 they

01:12:39.020 love

01:12:39.700 a

01:12:39.840 cushion

01:12:40.100 mate

01:12:40.380 Mark

01:12:40.960 you're

01:12:41.180 on

01:12:41.320 tour

01:12:41.500 at

01:12:41.620 the

01:12:41.720 moment

01:12:41.980 yeah

01:12:43.040 I'll

01:12:43.260 be

01:12:43.360 back

01:12:43.560 doing

01:12:43.740 the

01:12:43.860 show

01:12:44.040 called

01:12:44.180 an

01:12:44.300 evening

01:12:44.560 and part

01:12:44.980 of

01:12:45.120 the

01:12:45.280 next

01:12:45.860 morning

01:12:46.220 with

01:12:46.420 Mark

01:12:46.680 still

01:12:46.900 because

01:12:47.080 I

01:12:47.200 go

01:12:47.360 on

01:12:47.500 too

01:12:47.680 long

01:12:47.920 well

01:12:48.480 make

01:12:48.780 sure

01:12:49.000 you

01:12:49.220 check

01:12:49.460 that

01:12:49.660 out

01:12:49.920 and

01:12:50.220 he's

01:12:52.020 playing

01:12:52.660 the

01:12:52.820 piano

01:12:53.080 in

01:12:53.300 as well

01:12:53.600 so

01:12:53.740 do

01:12:53.960 make

01:12:54.160 sure

01:12:54.340 you

01:12:54.480 check

01:12:54.680 that

01:12:54.840 out

01:12:55.020 and

01:12:55.360 of

01:12:55.500 course

01:12:55.680 follow

01:12:56.000 us

01:12:56.300 over

01:12:56.620 onto

01:12:56.940 Locals

01:12:57.320 where

01:12:57.500 we

01:12:57.640 will

01:12:57.800 ask

01:12:58.100 your

01:12:58.280 questions

01:12:58.680 to

01:12:58.880 Mark

01:12:59.120 we'll

01:12:59.500 see

01:12:59.640 you

01:12:59.700 there

01:12:59.840 just

01:13:01.580 how

01:13:01.920 far

01:13:02.460 would

01:13:02.700 the

01:13:02.860 Labour

01:13:03.080 Party

01:13:03.440 have

01:13:03.700 to

01:13:03.840 go

01:13:04.000 before

01:13:04.280 you

01:13:04.540 decide

01:13:04.940 you

01:13:05.140 couldn't

01:13:05.420 vote

01:13:05.620 for

01:13:05.760 them

01:13:05.900 anymore

01:13:06.260 he

01:13:06.820 says

01:13:07.000 the

01:13:07.160 true

01:13:07.400 right

01:13:07.640 no

01:13:07.820 longer

01:13:08.040 supports

01:13:08.480 the

01:13:08.680 Tories

01:13:09.120 how

01:13:09.640 long

01:13:09.860 until

01:13:10.120 the

01:13:10.280 true

01:13:10.460 left

01:13:10.720 likewise

01:13:11.180 abandons

01:13:11.700 Labour

TRIGGERnometry - August 06, 2023

＂The Left Used to Believe in Winning People Over＂ - Mark Steel

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