TRIGGERnometry - The Masculinity Crisis and How To Solve It

00:00:00.000 Never before in human history have we had an entire culturally shaped, like almost every

00:00:07.960 single major culturally shaping institution telling young men they were crap. The more that

00:00:14.240 the feminization of our educational systems, our churches, everything else, the more that

00:00:18.900 has taken place, the less happy everyone is. There's a kind of idea that you're never ever

00:00:25.200 supposed to just like bottle up your feelings for a bit and just get on with it, because

00:00:30.960 that's bad, right? What do you think about that? It's crap. Yes, it is appropriate for men

00:00:38.100 to cry at times. It is not appropriate for you to cry in the midst of crisis. The thing

00:00:43.380 that never should have entered into this conversation is, and now you're a victim. That's a core

00:00:47.720 component of your identity. There are people that have made their entire careers both professionally

00:00:51.920 and politically off of convincing people, that there's no possible way they can do anything.

00:00:56.600 It's destructive for the individual. It's incredibly beneficial for the political

00:01:00.600 structures that benefit from them.

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00:02:06.980 Nick Freitas, welcome back to the show.

00:02:08.640 Great to be back.

00:02:09.880 It's awesome to have you on. We were sitting here about a year ago, I think, or something

00:02:13.740 like that in this exact same room. And as it turns out, actually, in the exact same clothes,

00:02:17.200 at least somehow. We had an amazing conversation about your life, military service, combat,

00:02:24.480 the war in Gaza, obviously. And then we did our usual question, what's the one thing you're

00:02:29.780 not talking about? And paraphrasing, you basically said, if you keep demonizing young men and,

00:02:34.300 you know, behaving towards them in ways that are unconstructive, good men, I hope that includes

00:02:39.660 the three of us, are not actually going to be able to control what comes after that.

00:02:45.500 I think you were kind of right.

00:02:47.140 Yeah. Yeah, no, I think, if I remember right, it was like, yeah, young men are going to revolt,

00:02:51.740 and that doesn't mean they're going to revolt in the way you want them to.

00:02:55.480 It's not going to be woke, because I don't know, I think some elements of the left have finally

00:03:01.400 figured out that you probably are not going to win the revolution or seize the means of production

00:03:05.640 with a bunch of mentally ill people who prioritize, you know, their mental health issues as their

00:03:11.060 primary identity. And you're certainly not going to do that if you have to fight a whole generation

00:03:16.120 of young men that you have systematically alienated for two decades. But again, the hope is, is that

00:03:21.960 good men or that young men revolt in a direction that says, I'm going to reject this aspect of

00:03:27.440 toxic masculinity. I'm going to reject the feminization of men. I'm going to reject all these

00:03:31.000 other things. And then I'm going to choose to be a good, strong, competent, masculine man who is

00:03:36.840 also noble and honorable and fighting for things that are not just within my own interest, but that

00:03:41.420 are true. But that's not the only option. There's other options. The other options are, I'm just going

00:03:47.900 to punish everyone that decided to treat me this way. And so I'm going to be strong, capable, and

00:03:52.120 competent so I can get what I want and screw those people. And those, those are the two paths before

00:03:58.040 young men right now. And again, we're still not sure which one is going to actually get a critical

00:04:01.960 mass. But I'm a lot more encouraged now that I see a lot more people fighting for, for what I think

00:04:07.200 is the right path. And of course, I think one of the reasons that the reaction to the horrific

00:04:13.780 assassination of Charlie Kirk was so strong was that he was doing that for young people. He was leading

00:04:20.840 them towards God, towards family, towards children, towards service. He's going to be a huge loss

00:04:29.080 going forward. He is. The thing that I'm very grateful for with Charlie is Charlie wasn't the

00:04:34.360 sort of guy to just advocate for these things. Charlie was the sort of guy to create other people

00:04:38.360 that would come in his footsteps or behind him. And so he did develop a network in order to do that.

00:04:44.840 And it's amazing the amount of young men and not just young men too, like families that were saying,

00:04:49.240 hey, I'm going to the church for the first time. I bought a Bible for the first time.

00:04:52.120 So Charlie really did do a good job of not just pointing to the political philosophy,

00:04:56.760 but actually pointing to the transcendent, which I think is essential. I have a hard time believing

00:05:01.320 that any sort of political philosophy is going to be ultimately successful, completely removed from

00:05:08.520 any sort of transcendent principles of objective truth and morality. You know, unfortunately,

00:05:14.600 we're already seeing, though, without Charlie's presence, we're already starting to see fractures

00:05:22.920 within the right on that. And that's unfortunate because I felt like we had this moment in time,

00:05:30.440 and we haven't lost it yet. I want to be clear on that. It's not like it's a lost opportunity.

00:05:35.640 But I don't think we should be shocked by the fact that whenever you see unity around something,

00:05:41.800 there's always going to be a lot of money to be made and a lot of strategy to be had and dividing

00:05:46.760 it up. And one of the things that when we talk about this conversation, I don't think we focus

00:05:53.400 enough on is positive male role models, but also fathers. I think one of the major reasons why we see

00:06:00.840 these young lads and young boys in crisis, because that's what it is, is a complete absence of father

00:06:07.160 figures or positive male role models. I mean, look, this was being talked about in the 1960s

00:06:13.720 in the United States. And every single demographic within the United States has had an increase in

00:06:18.840 fatherlessness. It's been the least prominent within Asian communities. But every single one of

00:06:26.440 them has seen a significant increase. And the bottom line is, is that men, boys are looking for

00:06:34.200 structure. They're looking for hierarchy. They're looking for someone to train them up and what they

00:06:38.600 should do and to find their role and place within society. And they're going to get it from somewhere.

00:06:43.000 And if they're not going to get it from a father figure who presumably loves them and has some sort

00:06:47.560 of interest in them growing up to be good men, well, then they'll find it in a gang or they'll find it

00:06:52.120 in social media or wherever else they might. There's also been, again, over the last couple of

00:06:59.160 decades, this big push to where the idea was is that masculinity is bad. That's the source of all

00:07:04.680 of our ills. And so all of the instincts that you have as a young man to want to be strong, to want

00:07:10.280 to compete, to want to fight aggression, like all of those things, those are the problems. And so we

00:07:16.760 have to train and educate those out of you. And so look, not to be flippant, but I think it's interesting

00:07:24.440 that the more that the feminization of our educational systems, our churches, everything

00:07:29.880 else, the more that has taken place, the less happy everyone is. Not to mention liberal women

00:07:35.480 who are constantly going on TikTok, complaining about how they can't find masculine men. Oh, no

00:07:39.320 kidding. Okay. And it just goes, it just goes to the old saying that it's like, okay, well, we have

00:07:44.120 more boys being raised in single parent homes, predominantly by mothers. And then they go into

00:07:50.360 a school system, which is predominantly female teachers. 77%. So if maybe masculinity is not

00:07:57.240 the problem, maybe a lack of it or an absence of it is the problem. Now, I instantly know what

00:08:03.080 people watching is going to say, well, you know, these women didn't ask to be single. I get it.

00:08:07.800 I was predominantly raised by a single mother. Now, thank God, my father, good man, still involved

00:08:12.280 in my life, but I got to see him three to four months out of the year, right? So predominantly raised

00:08:15.880 by a single mother. I understand that the vast majority of them didn't sign up for that,

00:08:19.560 but I also think we need to recognize that there is something going on in this country

00:08:22.840 when the vast majority of young women don't list family or having kids or getting married as

00:08:29.400 like anywhere near their top priorities. You know, that's socially engineered. That's not natural.

00:08:36.600 It's interesting you say socially engineered, and maybe there is partly that, but isn't it also,

00:08:42.280 Nick, the fact that, look, it is impossible to have a man who goes to work, practically impossible,

00:08:50.200 I should say, a woman that stays at home, raises her kids. The reality is because of the way economics

00:08:55.320 works now, how expensive everything is, housing, all the rest of it, there needs to be two people

00:09:01.160 in the workplace. And that puts a strain on marriages and relationships.

00:09:04.600 It absolutely does. And there's no question. And again, I'll be happy to sit here for an hour and talk

00:09:09.480 about the evils of inflationary monetary policy and how it seems to be at the root of most of our

00:09:14.040 problems and why those problems really exist. The other thing that I will say, though, is part of it,

00:09:19.960 too, is this idea of what do we teach people to prioritize? And my wife and I got married at 19 and

00:09:26.600 20. Both of us came from broken homes. I was in the military. I don't know if you know this,

00:09:30.440 but being a private in the United States Army is not exactly a pathway to riches, right?

00:09:34.440 So when we had kids at that point, we had our first child. I had just become a staff sergeant.

00:09:41.320 Again, I'm a non-commissioned officer. I'm not raking in the dough, right?

00:09:46.440 My wife and I had laid out a plan when we were 19, when we were 18 and talking about getting married,

00:09:52.680 and we set out what are our expectations. And I remember telling her, I'm like, I see myself as

00:09:57.400 I'm supposed to be the primary breadwinner. I feel like my goal is to make enough money to where when we

00:10:02.200 start having kids, if you don't want to work, you don't have to. And she goes, good, that is what

00:10:06.360 I would like as well. I said, okay, but I need it to be understood. If we have two incomes and we

00:10:11.240 switch to one so that you can see them with the kids, the lifestyle changes are going to take place

00:10:15.800 as a result. And her attitude was like, well, yeah, of course. A lot of people don't have those

00:10:20.440 conversations. There's these expectations that, well, we're never going to make sacrifices in an economic

00:10:25.320 environment in order to prioritize other things. And so a lot of this, it is amazing at how much

00:10:31.800 you can actually accomplish when both of you are on the same sheet of music, both of you have the

00:10:36.120 same priorities and expectations. So yeah, did we make as much money, have as nice a house,

00:10:42.920 have as nice clothes, furniture, car? Nope. But I have an outstanding relationship with all three of

00:10:47.960 my kids, and they're now 22, 20, and 17, and I like being around all of them. As I like to say,

00:10:53.000 they love Jesus and they can't stand Karl Marx. I want us to have a conversation about something

00:11:01.640 that I don't think it gets talked about, and, you know, for the reasons that you somewhat alluded to,

00:11:07.960 which is that men, women will not be able to teach men to be men as well as men. I know,

00:11:18.280 the internet is going to explode now, this crazy idea, but I sort of think that's probably true.

00:11:22.680 No, it's absolutely 100% true. Can we just say something in the reverse?

00:11:29.400 Sure.

00:11:30.520 We need women to actually help raise daughters, right? Like, I can't, I hope I was a very good

00:11:35.960 father to my daughters based off my relationship. They seem, the feedback they have given me seems

00:11:39.880 to suggest that I was a good dad, but none of them will tell you, oh yeah, dad was all I needed,

00:11:45.320 right? Yeah, they needed mom too. Right.

00:11:47.000 And boys are the same. Boys need both. But what I'm saying is,

00:11:53.080 like, I see it, we have a three-year-old, so you've been through this, you probably

00:11:56.680 got way more on this than I do. My wife is amazing with him, right? But there's just one or two things

00:12:04.040 that as a woman, not everybody, there are women who are brilliant at doing this, but as a woman,

00:12:09.000 generally speaking, it's harder for them to deal with the fact that a boy is aggressive, he might

00:12:14.200 start hitting, and that has to be channeled. You're remembering that, you know, there's just

00:12:20.520 a few things that as a guy you just understand because it sort of exists in the realm of guys

00:12:26.520 and women are not necessarily even privy to. Like, I know for a fact that there are certain ways that

00:12:31.160 I can behave that will cause you to punch me in the face. And so I know that I have to modulate

00:12:36.440 my behavior to make sure that doesn't happen because that wouldn't end well for me, right?

00:12:41.160 So the presence of the potential of violence is always at some level in our minds, and therefore,

00:12:46.200 we have to act accordingly. And that is something I think is very, very difficult for a woman to

00:12:51.960 understand and to teach her sons. Oh, no, it absolutely is. I remember having this conversation

00:12:57.240 with my wife the first time my son got into an altercation and her inclination, because he was

00:13:02.040 still pretty young, but he was old enough. And that's important, right? I allow my children to

00:13:07.560 take age-appropriate risks and age-appropriate challenges. And she's like, oh, well, I'm going to

00:13:13.560 call him. I'm like, no, you're not. He said, what do you mean? I'm like, he's got to handle that.

00:13:18.200 Why? I said, baby, your son doesn't want the bully to be afraid of you. He wants the bully to be afraid

00:13:23.320 of him. And I don't know how this is going to go. He's not going to get so hurt. The other thing I

00:13:28.920 always try to say is I try to protect my kids from scars, but bruises are just a part of life.

00:13:34.680 So I'm trying to protect them from things that are going to have life-altering impacts on them that could

00:13:40.280 seriously hurt them spiritually, physically, emotionally. But when it comes to getting

00:13:44.600 knocked on your ass, welcome to life, son. And if I don't teach you how to properly deal with that

00:13:51.800 in a relatively safe environment, then you're not going to be ready for it when it happens out in

00:13:56.280 the real world and the consequences there could be significant. And it's not as if women don't

00:14:03.720 understand the nature of those threats outside of the home. They just have different mechanisms of

00:14:07.800 dealing with it. And I need to teach my son to be the sort of man that his wife, that his children,

00:14:14.360 that his friends can reasonably count on him in a dangerous situation to be able to handle it.

00:14:20.280 And the bottom line is my wife respects those qualities in me. To be honest, they don't just

00:14:27.000 respect him. Women find it highly attractive in a man. It's like, okay, do you want me to convey

00:14:31.800 those capabilities to your son? Yes. Then you need to trust me. Just like there's times where I've looked,

00:14:37.480 there's times where I've wanted to engage with someone with one of my daughters and my wife has

00:14:41.240 been like, baby, come here for a second. Let me, let me fill you in on what's going on. Oh,

00:14:45.160 thank you. Right. That's the other thing. Right. When you have mutual respect for the idea that

00:14:50.440 my wife and I are not competing on raising our children, we are cooperating in raising our

00:14:55.880 children. And she has special insights and experiences. And I have special insights and

00:14:59.800 experiences. And we're going to utilize these because we both know that we love each other and we love

00:15:04.040 our children. And so when you, when you support one another in that process, it's amazing what you

00:15:08.440 produce. But again, my, my, I was very blessed to have a wife that understood that I needed to train

00:15:14.680 a son that was one day going to be responsible for providing and protecting his family.

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00:17:06.720 And the other thing as well, I think, and by the way, your point about how men and women can teach,

00:17:10.640 like, I mean, when my son was a baby, I was just standing there observing and like making notes,

00:17:16.320 like, oh, she did that, okay. And by her example, she showed me all the stuff that you're supposed to do

00:17:21.000 in that time. So we learn from each other. But when we're talking about young boys, and you know,

00:17:25.480 you talked about fatherlessness, lack of male role models, I think this is where some of these things

00:17:30.760 are coming from. Because the other thing is, men are just fundamentally, I think, much more comfortable

00:17:35.960 with aggression.

00:17:36.600 Yeah.

00:17:37.800 We just know it's part of life. Whereas for a woman, it's a very unpleasant thing to even deal with

00:17:42.220 particularly male aggression. I saw this great clip of a friend of mine called Paul Otea, Peter's

00:17:47.240 brother. And he talked about the fact that his boys were in some kind of fight. It got very intense.

00:17:52.640 And he basically helped them see that aggression is great when you're defending a brother from a wild

00:17:58.600 animal or whatever. And that's, I think, another thing that has perhaps been suppressed where you now see

00:18:05.480 it come out in unpleasant ways, where it's like, you haven't been taught that aggression is useful

00:18:10.760 and good. Just, it's got to be channeled right. Because sometimes I feel the female reaction is

00:18:16.220 just, let's shut this down. You know?

00:18:19.140 Yeah. Well, and the problem is, is that you can't totally shut it down. You can't extinguish it.

00:18:23.960 No.

00:18:24.560 And you don't want to, because no civilization in history has ever been protected by docile,

00:18:30.880 weak men that were afraid of conflict. That's just not how that happens.

00:18:33.500 So I think it's important to understand that while aggression, all of us are prone to want

00:18:40.380 to avoid discomfort on some level. We typically don't prefer it, right? And that's, that's

00:18:45.400 understandable. But it is a reality. And the real question is the discernment that's supposed

00:18:50.680 to, again, in determining is what sort of, what level of aggression is appropriate for

00:18:54.640 this situation? Why am I utilizing this level of aggression? To what extent do I plan to use

00:19:00.480 that aggression, right? Is it until he stops moving? Or, you know, what is it? Or is it

00:19:03.840 just to where he's restrained, whatever it is? That all takes a great deal of training

00:19:07.720 and discipline. And in order to train and discipline on those areas, you have to put

00:19:11.600 yourself into those environments. Not unregulated environments, but training for those purposes

00:19:17.160 and developing the appropriate intellectual, physical, and emotional practices and disciplines

00:19:24.480 is very important. And, and, and again, it's, it's one of those things where a woman is naturally

00:19:31.640 going to be inclined to let's maintain the peace. She is able to do that and to be in an environment

00:19:38.080 where she feels so much more secure when she knows her husband has it. When, when she knows

00:19:43.260 that her husband has control of the situation, um, she feels safe and secure. Again, I have to

00:19:49.020 convey that to my son, which means you're going to have to watch your son go through difficult

00:19:52.180 things that you never had to watch me go through. Um, but this is part of the process. And again,

00:19:57.820 a lot, a lot of that is just, a lot of that comes from talking between husband and wife beforehand.

00:20:02.860 Um, but I, I'll use this as an example. I was speaking at a, uh, it was a young men's luncheon.

00:20:08.940 It was run by a young America's foundation. So conservative group, and they hadn't done any men's,

00:20:14.580 they didn't, they had done a young woman's luncheon for the last 10 years. They hadn't done a young

00:20:17.740 men's one for 10 years. And so they decided they were going to, they would bring it up. And, uh,

00:20:22.380 they asked me if I would speak at it. And so typically when someone reads off my bio, one of

00:20:26.120 these things, there's three things mentioned. Nick was a former green beret combat veteran. Nick has

00:20:30.580 served 10 years in the Virginia general assembly and Nick has a, you know, sizable social media

00:20:35.480 following. Now in this group of young men, the vast majority of them either are involved in politics

00:20:41.660 or want to be involved in politics professionally on some level. They want to be on staff. They want to run

00:20:47.060 for office, whatever it is, work for a think tank. And then some of them also are interested in

00:20:52.380 joining the military, but out of a room of 300 young men, I would say maybe 10% were interested

00:20:56.800 in the military. All of them were interested in politics on one way level. And so I said,

00:21:01.040 all right, gentlemen, when those three things get read off in my bio, which are you most impressed

00:21:05.840 with? And all of them almost in unison, green beret combat veteran. I said, isn't that fascinating?

00:21:11.220 The vast majority of you in here are not going to join the military. You respect the military,

00:21:15.560 but you're not interested in serving in that capacity. And even if you are, you're not

00:21:20.100 necessarily interested in doing what I did within the military. And yet every young man in this room

00:21:25.180 thinks that's the most impressive thing. Why? Because that's the credential that is listed off

00:21:30.580 about me that suggests to you that if someone violent were to come through that door right now,

00:21:34.480 I would know what to do about it and probably come out on top. Right? If that is the instinct

00:21:41.460 that I believe God has written into all of us, well, then maybe we should take some cues from

00:21:46.600 that. Not because we've all got to be soldiers or, you know, UFC fighters or whatnot, because we're

00:21:52.940 not, we're not all supposed to do that. We're not all called to do that. But maybe we should all

00:21:56.220 recognize that there's something in you that wants to be able to have some capability and capacity for

00:22:01.340 this. And so you should start asking yourself, what do I need to do in order to properly develop and

00:22:06.400 train that? Because it isn't all just physical. If you're, if you are physically strong, you're able

00:22:11.680 to shoot, you're able to fight, but you're a freaking idiot. Um, you're going to lose more

00:22:16.740 than you win. If you don't have any control of your emotions, you're a monster. You're now a terror

00:22:22.180 for your, for your family, for your community, for your country. But if you line up all these things,

00:22:27.640 like if you have, like, if you have a strong spiritual bearing, which says, I know why I have

00:22:32.380 these, I know why God gave me these, these desires. I have the intellectual capacity to be able to read

00:22:37.020 a situation and know when to use them. I have the emotional maturity to understand when to be,

00:22:42.280 when to restrain myself and when to utilize what I need to. And I have the physical capability and

00:22:46.400 capacity to actually execute it. You are now the sort of person that can be dangerous on behalf of

00:22:51.420 the things you love, but never to the things you love. But it takes all of that. And regardless of

00:22:57.100 what you do, I always think there's something beneficial about young men embracing that part of their

00:23:02.060 personality, embracing that part of their masculinity and developing it to, you know,

00:23:06.080 an appropriate level for what they want to do in their life. And it's so interesting. You talked

00:23:09.880 about the physical aspects of men, because one of the things that I noticed, so everybody knows this,

00:23:15.520 but I'll repeat it. So I used to teach and particularly. Whoa. Yeah, I know. I know.

00:23:21.220 Look, this is a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. But in one part of East London, in a place called Newham,

00:23:28.880 where majority of my kids didn't have a dad. And I used to see my kids come in. I used to teach

00:23:36.240 year six, year six with 10 and 11 year olds. I used to see them come in at 10 and mom used to be

00:23:42.160 able to control them. But 11 and 12 is when the gang started to circulate because the boys went,

00:23:49.480 started to go through puberty. Mom couldn't control them anymore. Physically, dad wasn't there.

00:23:55.200 They are craving male camaraderie, approval. And if mom can't control them, then the boys are going

00:24:03.220 to leave. So this this male dominance and people may be uncomfortable or squeamish about it. It's

00:24:08.940 really important, particularly from an older male. You know, this part is I think growing up in an

00:24:16.260 environment where I'm 46. So I grew up in an environment where we still revered traditional

00:24:24.080 masculinity on some level. But you definitely had, you know, the feminist waves coming in and whatnot.

00:24:30.040 And there was kind of these notions about humanity and human nature and what we could train and what

00:24:35.880 we could engineer through the right programs and education. And I think we're getting back to a

00:24:41.240 point where people are starting to recognize that, yes, nurture matters, but so does nature.

00:24:48.000 So does nature. And instead of us arrogantly presuming that we've just reached this level

00:24:55.060 of either enlightenment or scientific knowledge that we can just negate all of that and run people

00:25:00.740 through the appropriate programs and get the results we want. OK, we're several decades into

00:25:06.000 this experiment. How's it working out for us? Maybe, maybe the thousands of years of human

00:25:12.700 history that came before us have something to teach us about human nature. Not that we have to adopt

00:25:17.480 everything that came before us. But as C.S. Lewis likes to point out, the chronological snobbery

00:25:22.760 of the moderns who think that, well, we would never behave that way because we're just so much more

00:25:28.460 enlightened. Like, OK, yeah, go ahead and what is it, nine meals? You're nine meals away from chaos.

00:25:34.340 So I think it's I think we need to appreciate the fact that this seems to be a common phenomenon

00:25:42.440 among the males of the population across space and time and culture. And the real question we have

00:25:49.580 to ask ourselves is, OK, again, maybe God put it there for a reason. Maybe there's some positive

00:25:55.380 manifestations of this. And maybe our job as parents, as fathers, as mothers, as a society

00:26:01.320 is to help direct things in those positive manifestations. You know, one of the most

00:26:07.340 bizarre things about this whole concept of toxic masculinity. All right. Let's see if I can get

00:26:13.400 canceled here real quick. There's a point to it. The point to it is I'm going to look at these

00:26:18.960 masculine traits. And I'm going to ask myself, are there negative manifestations of those masculine

00:26:24.860 traits? Yes, of course. Of course there is. OK, good. Do I want to avoid the negative manifestations

00:26:32.300 of that? Yes, of course. But don't don't make the trait itself the problem. The trait itself is not

00:26:39.100 toxic. It's the way it's manifesting. Right. Because I could just as easily say the same thing about

00:26:43.800 femininity. Yes, there are things that we generally associate with feminine traits. Are there negative and

00:26:48.080 positive manifestations of those? No. Yeah, of course there are. Of course there are. All of us,

00:26:54.580 all of us know and are sometimes represented by insufferable women. Right. But the point is,

00:27:00.360 is that just like masculinity is not toxic for the traits that it contains, neither is femininity

00:27:05.340 toxic for the trait it contains. But like anything else, aggression is a good thing when I'm using it

00:27:11.460 to protect innocent people from those that would cause harm in them. It is a bad thing when I'm using

00:27:15.200 it to exploit and hurt people, hurt innocent people in order to get what I want. And that used to be

00:27:20.880 something that we just kind of understood. And it's such a profound point because these traits

00:27:28.760 are inherent within men. They flow through all of us. You can use them for positive or you can use

00:27:34.060 them for negative. But if as a society you demonize those traits and you effectively drive them

00:27:40.360 underground, you're not going to get rid of them. And what these traits are actually going to do is

00:27:45.320 they're going to end up mutated. They're going to be like a bone that doesn't grow properly.

00:27:51.340 And as a result of that, what is going to come out is not pretty. So if you think about aggression,

00:27:57.660 male dominance, pride, desire for success, I mean, all of those traits can be used to describe Andrew

00:28:04.640 Taylor. And maybe Andrew is a result of a society that has demonized men and the instincts that we have

00:28:13.680 to such a point where they naturally gravitate towards a character like that.

00:28:18.060 Well, I think, so first of all, I think it's absolutely true that when you, it is one thing

00:28:24.380 to not teach, to not teach a young man the way to develop those traits. It is another thing to

00:28:29.740 demonize those traits, right? When you fail to teach them, they might go to a gang or they might

00:28:34.200 do something else, you know, who knows? When you demonize them as society, you actually pervert this

00:28:38.680 entire process in a way that is far more dangerous. It's almost like this, you read the stories of

00:28:45.020 some of the most ruthless, brutal serial killers. And what do you find? You typically find people

00:28:51.400 with no, not always, typically people that really, really weird, strange, bad, domineering relationships

00:28:57.400 with their mother, either absent fathers or kind of like really, really weak, docile fathers.

00:29:03.840 And oh, so that manifests that. So now that you've put them in a completely feminized environment,

00:29:07.660 that created a positive result. No, they have this incredibly perverse way that they look at women.

00:29:13.900 It's not at all healthy. It ends up being brutal and even murderous at times.

00:29:18.300 And so I, again, I think it's important to understand that it is one thing to ignore those

00:29:22.200 traits. It is another thing to demonize them. And both of them are bad, but the demonization of

00:29:26.400 those traits is even worse. Because like you said, you don't get rid of them. They're just left to

00:29:30.520 fester and manifest in other ways. When it comes to things like, you know, Andrew Tate,

00:29:36.700 one of the things I always warn pastors about is I'll say, look, if anybody that looks at what I

00:29:45.140 say and what I believe and what I advocate for on what I call biblical masculinity, but just

00:29:49.880 traditional masculinity, nobody could look at what I'm saying and come to any, be confused that I

00:29:57.140 disagree with a lot of things that Andrew Tate says. But if you want to know why so many young men

00:30:01.920 flock to Andrew Tate, it's not simply because the man can fight, the man's financially successful,

00:30:07.260 the man is surrounded by beautiful women, right? These are all superficial things that also have

00:30:11.780 meaning, but superficial things that all men are kind of drawn to. It's also because Andrew Tate was

00:30:18.360 one of the few people sticking up for those young men when nobody else would. And so as much as I

00:30:24.580 disagree with a lot of the things that Andrew pushes for, not everything, because he does push

00:30:30.800 for some things that you should be strong, you should be competent. The question is why and for

00:30:33.920 what purpose? But, and obviously as a father, especially as a father of daughters, I abhor some

00:30:39.600 of the things that he did in the realm of pornography and everything else. But I think it's really important

00:30:47.640 for what we might call more conservative men to understand that you dropped the ball. You dropped

00:30:55.460 the ball and you didn't present strong role models for people to follow. And in fact, you go into your

00:31:01.540 churches and you treated Jesus like he was the fourth member of a boy band, right? You didn't talk

00:31:07.500 about what it meant to be strong and noble and competent and capable. You didn't lift up masculine

00:31:14.880 virtues as something to be applauded by society. No, instead, everything was, oh, women are so

00:31:21.400 perfect and wonderful and men, you really need to step up. Do men need to step up? Yes, of course we

00:31:25.880 do. Stepping up is something that we have to, in fact, when you hear the phrase, be a man, every single

00:31:31.300 one of us automatically got a picture in our head of what that means is that I will get the job done.

00:31:36.520 I will keep my word. I will do what needs to be done regardless of pain, of discomfort, of danger.

00:31:41.780 That's what being a man is, right? Well, last time I checked, real hard to maintain civilization

00:31:48.820 if you're not actually living in a civilization which elevates those characteristics as something

00:31:54.600 to be truly admired within society. And yet we did the opposite. We treated it as if it was just, well,

00:32:00.420 yeah, of course you're supposed to do that stuff. And then we didn't reward it. And now we're shocked

00:32:05.840 by the results. And now you're shocked by young men that are finding other men that are a little

00:32:11.600 bit farther down the path than they are, who have experienced some level of success, who have

00:32:16.020 experienced some level of discipline and aspects of our lives that they find meaningful. And they

00:32:20.620 were sticking up for them and you weren't. So don't be shocked. And before you go heavy on

00:32:25.740 trashing that, you better be able to provide an alternative. What are they fighting for? Have you

00:32:30.960 provided an alternative worth following? Or are you just trashing that guy? Because I can tell you

00:32:37.760 real quick what young men who have been starved for mentorship are going to choose. And so I'm very

00:32:44.120 encouraged though, because I do see a world where you got guys like John Lovell, you know, former Ranger

00:32:49.120 Regiment, Warrior Poets Society. There's no question that that man knows how to handle himself in a gunfight.

00:32:54.140 But he also knows how to handle himself in a marriage and with raising kids. You know, Chad

00:33:00.860 Robichaud. Nobody's going to say, nobody's going to talk smack about Chad Robichaud. That guy was not

00:33:05.860 only Marine Special Operations and doing, you know, operations, facilitating things for SEAL Team 6 in

00:33:10.480 Afghanistan and like two-man teams, but then got back and went 18-1 fighting as a professional MMA

00:33:17.320 fighter, right? Nobody's going to say that guy is, you know, well, you just don't get it. You're weak.

00:33:20.920 No, no, no. Victor Marks, right? Like all of these guys have established themselves.

00:33:26.720 And this is important for me too, because one of the things I tell people, again, I tell pastors

00:33:31.420 a lot when I'm asked to speak to them is, I was always raised in the faith, but it wasn't very

00:33:38.020 active in my life when I was a young man, because I associated with a lot of other men that I thought

00:33:42.300 were weak. And when I went into the military, I wanted to be an operator. I wanted to be a warrior.

00:33:46.440 I wanted to be a Green Beret, right? I wanted to do these things. And it wasn't

00:33:50.880 until I found other men that really impressed me as capable operators could handle themselves

00:33:55.900 in a fight, do all these other things that it became very, very clear to me that, oh,

00:33:59.620 you know, these things are not mutually exclusive. In fact, one makes you better at the other.

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00:35:50.220 I'm glad we've talked about that because I think it's also time to flip the conversation. And of course,

00:35:54.480 not only are you seeing the kind of angry response of Andrew Tay, but there's also a more kind of

00:36:01.920 vengeful and trolly response to all of this, which is to like check out of life and just become cynical

00:36:07.580 and bitter and resentful. And, you know, Jordan, of course, was first to really talk about what happens

00:36:14.060 when you do that. But actually, I think it's time for us to have a conversation about what it is that

00:36:19.140 now that we've stopped the demonizing, or some of us are at least saying we're going to stop other

00:36:25.240 people from doing the demonizing, we just should, I think, talk more about what it is that a man is

00:36:30.680 supposed to do. And you talk about being a man or, you know, the phrase man up. And that's one of the

00:36:36.360 things where I think there's been a lot of confusion. Maybe you can help us out with that,

00:36:40.240 which is there's a kind of idea that you're never, ever, ever supposed to just like bottle up your

00:36:47.820 feelings for a bit and just get on with it, because that's bad, right? What do you think

00:36:52.720 about that? I think it's crap. I was, I was talking to, I was actually talking about a high

00:36:58.360 school group a while back. It was a big conference they were having, and they wanted me to talk about

00:37:02.560 masculinity. And I asked the question, is it okay for men to cry? And everybody, oh, yes, yes, of

00:37:08.580 course, absolutely. I'm like, is it though? Like all the time, right? I said, now listen, because I can

00:37:15.960 already see the comments on this, right? Like, of course men can cry. How dare you? That's toxic

00:37:19.660 masculinity. Yes, it is appropriate for men to cry at times. It is not appropriate for you to cry in

00:37:26.580 the midst of crisis. That's when you're supposed to compartmentalize. We keep hearing about how well,

00:37:31.780 how good men are at compartmentalizing. That's part of it. Part of our emotional maturity is when

00:37:36.440 there's a dangerous situation, when there's a crisis, when you have to be there for other people,

00:37:40.040 you keep your emotions under control. You can call that bottling up. And yeah, if you keep them

00:37:45.460 bottling up forever, that's bad. That's not emotionally mature. But in the midst of a

00:37:50.100 dangerous situation and a crisis or whatnot where everyone else is looking and depending on you for

00:37:54.020 leadership and security, yeah, you don't need to be over there having a good cry, right? And then I'll

00:37:59.720 ask the ladies in the room. I'll be like, ladies, okay, we all know that the proper answer is I want

00:38:06.460 a man that's in touch with his feminine side. Do you? Do you? Do you want a guy that's all weepy all the

00:38:12.240 time? No, you don't. Maybe there's something to that. Maybe like just how we've identified certain

00:38:18.960 traits within men that need to be developed positively. There are certain indicators in

00:38:24.040 the way that women respond to masculinity. And if a guy's walking around like a weepy little punk all

00:38:29.160 the time, you're not interested. Why? Well, because he's probably not the sort of person that can defend

00:38:33.720 you or your children one day, right? So let's just admit something. Yes, it's okay for men to cry

00:38:40.540 in certain elements, certain times and whatnot. It's also incredibly essential that men develop

00:38:46.320 the sort of emotional maturity that allows them to keep themselves under control, under dangerous

00:38:51.680 and trying circumstances so that they can take care and protect the people that they love.

00:38:55.860 And instead of demonizing that as just bottling it all up, maybe we should once again recognize that,

00:39:00.800 no, when that's done properly, that requires a great deal of discipline and sacrifice on behalf of

00:39:05.920 man. And guess what? We love to be that guy. We love to be that. You show me the one male role model

00:39:11.920 in any sort of movie where the guy's weeping and crying all the time and dangerous. No, it's the guy

00:39:16.700 that got his crap together in the midst of chaos. Now, do we have to have a conversation on what

00:39:22.700 happens when, okay, now I'm out of the crisis and there has to be... Yes, this is exactly it.

00:39:26.900 That's such a good point. By the way, I love the way you broke that down because that's exactly right.

00:39:30.800 But I think the piece that historically has been missing, and I think there is a conversation to

00:39:35.140 be had, is... I'm going to, you know, people get offended by this, but like when I was at school,

00:39:41.420 if you showed your feelings, you were gay. Like, that was... What, you've got feelings? Gay?

00:39:46.640 Yeah. Right? That's how it was, right? Good times.

00:39:49.940 Right, yeah. And there's nothing wrong with being gay, obviously, but you know what I mean, right?

00:39:53.580 And that's maybe a bit... Well, I do actually feel we have made progress, which is it... Men have been

00:40:02.020 encouraged to have a conversation, maybe with other men, and go, you know, I was really struggling

00:40:07.240 there for a while, or I've been through this terrible thing, and to share that. What's a healthy

00:40:11.280 way to process that stuff once the crisis is over? I think there's two elements to this. One is,

00:40:16.600 like, I always talk about, like, men or women, but I specifically address this to men a lot. There's

00:40:20.800 five categories of your life, right? There's the spiritual, the physical, the emotional,

00:40:24.540 the intellectual, and the professional, right? No matter who you are, what you do, and you're

00:40:27.820 always going to be developing these aspects of your life. They're always going to have an impact.

00:40:30.840 The reason why I think the spiritual is important is because I get, like, I get my identity in Christ.

00:40:36.420 Okay, what does that mean, right? Because we've all heard the Sunday School version of this,

00:40:39.560 but what does that actually mean? Well, it actually means I have a transcendent source for my identity,

00:40:44.880 my meaning, my purpose that never goes away, right? So was I proud of

00:40:50.740 being a Green Beret? Yes, I'm not a Green Beret anymore. What happens to my identity if everything

00:40:55.960 is just encapsulated by that? You see, okay, I served 10 years in the Virginia General Assembly.

00:41:02.320 I'm proud of that. Look, I've met people that their entire identity is wrapped up in being a

00:41:07.420 politician, and they're typically the people you don't want to be in power. So the reason why having

00:41:12.700 something rooted in something that provides objective truth, objective morality, transcendent meaning,

00:41:17.420 and purpose, the reason why that's so important is because it actually gives me an intellectually

00:41:22.160 consistent way to explain suffering. I'm not confused by it. I'm not surprised by it.

00:41:29.000 I wasn't promised to know suffering in life. I was promised quite the opposite. And so when it happens,

00:41:34.600 it's like, okay, how do I deal with it? Right? I don't automatically look at it as, oh, this is some

00:41:39.180 source of great cosmic injustice, and something must be done. No, it's part of life. I got to deal with it.

00:41:45.900 How do I deal with it effectively? And how do I deal with it in such a way where I can also protect

00:41:49.600 the people that I love? So right off the bat, when you have that sense of identity, meaning,

00:41:53.640 and purpose, then no matter what you go through, your core is there. And that's critical. It's

00:41:59.440 absolutely critical. I watched so many guys that were just incredibly good operators,

00:42:03.640 incredible soldiers. They get home, their marriage breaks apart, their relationship with

00:42:10.240 their kids breaks apart, you know, their career suffers as a result. And now everything that they got

00:42:15.500 any sort of identity or meaning from is gone. And it's a really easy step from there to a whole

00:42:22.320 lot of self-medication and self-destructive behavior. So that's the first one. It's important.

00:42:28.220 And the reason I say that is because I have so many people like, I love everything you say,

00:42:30.880 just leave God out of it. No. Right? The second part is fostering strong, good relationships with

00:42:39.220 other friendships with other men. I think a lot of times that helps too when you have other men that,

00:42:45.000 again, they don't have to have all the same experiences that you do. And I think this needs

00:42:50.280 to go, I think there's three components to this. You need mentors, you need peers, and you need mentees.

00:42:57.840 So obviously when you're younger in life, you have more of those mentors and peers. And as you get older,

00:43:01.920 you start to get more of the mentees. The way you're now sharing your experience and one and helping

00:43:05.860 them navigate these problems. And the reason why that third component is important is because one,

00:43:09.800 that's what provides the next generation with the capabilities to be able to do what they need to do.

00:43:14.140 And we keep this whole civilization thing going in the right direction. But it's also one of those

00:43:20.020 things when you're thinking about, when you're getting mentorship from someone that you know that

00:43:23.880 you trust, when you have other peers that rely on you and you can rely on them. And so you have that

00:43:29.900 shared experience. And then when you have other people that you know you're going to be responsible

00:43:33.200 for bringing up, again, as a father, this was critical. I recognize that my son is replacing

00:43:39.500 me in this world. And I better conduct myself in such a way as to be worthy of his admiration,

00:43:47.660 as to be worthy of him following the path that I've laid out and then making one his own.

00:43:52.900 And so I think when we develop those kind of relationships where we can sit down and we can

00:43:57.940 talk with somebody that, again, I think the shared faith really, really does matter. I really do

00:44:02.140 think. I think it provides a commonplace, a common reference point that goes beyond either of you

00:44:07.400 and your experience. I think that's really important. But being able to sit down with

00:44:11.900 someone like that and be like, dude, I just need to talk. You're not going to have a ton of friends

00:44:17.460 that you do that with. I'm a little bit skeptical. And by a little bit, I mean incredibly skeptical of

00:44:24.000 modern therapy. And it's not because I don't think there can be benefits to therapy. I absolutely do.

00:44:29.300 But I think you've got to be real careful with who you trust going into that environment. We had a

00:44:33.960 lot of operators that went into traditional therapy and it was like they were getting therapy for

00:44:39.400 women. And they were treating guys that had served overseas in difficult situations as if they were

00:44:44.300 broken toys or, you know, oh, you're broken. We're going to fix you. Screw you. You know, one of the

00:44:51.240 most effective ways that I saw with a lot of men was this program, this program they had done where

00:44:57.160 they were trying to teach, you know, highly trained operators how to deal with all the stress and

00:45:03.700 whatnot that was coming in and impacting their marriage and impacting them as a father and

00:45:07.060 everything else. And they found that when they front loaded it and do this is going to make

00:45:10.980 you a better father, it was emotional. It was gay. It was gay. A 90s kid, right? Yeah.

00:45:16.500 But when they said, hey, look, we're going to run you through, we're going to run you through these

00:45:22.480 stress exercises. And the reason why we're going to run you through and give you these techniques in

00:45:25.660 order to deal with the stress is because look what just happened to your shot group. So they're going

00:45:29.940 through the shoot house. Their shot group goes to crap and they're like, how do I fix this? Oh,

00:45:34.820 you fix it by doing this, this, and this. This is what happens to happen with your heart rate.

00:45:37.460 This is what your mind's doing. This is what the various chemicals in your body are doing,

00:45:40.820 et cetera. And so all of a sudden they got them in a position where they could focus them in on

00:45:46.300 what their body, how their body was responding to stressful situations, prolonged stressful

00:45:49.740 situations, how they can deal with it to be a better operator. Oh, by the way, these are the

00:45:55.860 same things that are going to impact you. And you don't just have an obligation to be a good operator.

00:45:59.360 You have an obligation to be a good man, a good husband, a good father. And the same thing that's

00:46:03.620 going to help you in this environment is going to help you in that environment. So I think a part of it

00:46:07.980 is, is properly explaining these, this is part of the responsibility of men. This is where John

00:46:12.420 Lovell, I think does a really good job of saying, we're not just supposed to be warriors. We're

00:46:15.620 supposed to be romantic. We're supposed to be tender with our families. And I think when we look

00:46:20.280 at it as this is a part of your training of being a good and complete man is very important. And then

00:46:25.780 finding other men that are on that same journey that have had, again, mentors, peers, and mentees.

00:46:30.660 I think the whole idea of having a skillset in order to deal with difficult problems,

00:46:36.580 difficult situations is so important for men. Because one of the things that I didn't have

00:46:42.920 when I was young is I'd be put in a situation. I didn't know how to deal with it. I didn't have

00:46:48.240 the skillset to deal with it. I'd feel overwhelmed. And then before you know it, you start becoming

00:46:52.940 emotional. And that's when everything goes wrong, because you start making decisions based on emotion

00:46:58.600 instead of rationale or logic.

00:47:01.140 Emotions should inform our decisions, they shouldn't direct them. Because when you have a visceral reaction

00:47:07.980 to something, there's a reason for that. Your body or mind is telling you something about this

00:47:11.440 particular situation. It's an invitation to thought. By the same token, I think when a lot of times men will

00:47:21.020 get accused of bottling up their emotions, when in reality, what they're doing is they're transferring

00:47:24.900 the emotions they feel over into the two emotions that they don't mind showing you, which is usually

00:47:28.740 sarcasm or rage.

00:47:31.280 So this is why my father was a homicide detective. My mom was a nurse, too. So I grew up around a lot

00:47:38.460 of gallows humor. But it was one of these things where the reason why, if I'm feeling insecure or

00:47:47.060 afraid or unsure of myself or whatnot, I go straight to sarcasm or humor or anger. Because sarcasm and

00:47:58.700 anger seldom get confused for weakness. And these ones constantly get confused for weakness. And so I

00:48:06.140 think it's important to understand. And again, this is something, too, where this is something where, again,

00:48:10.860 a woman who's interested can actually play a really, really important role in the development of a man

00:48:16.800 because, let's face it, a lot of the crap that we do, we do for them. We can't. You find a woman

00:48:22.240 that you're absolutely in love with, you will slay dragons and be thankful for it just to get to come

00:48:27.280 home to her. And so one of the things that, again, I try to explain is, okay, guys, because we

00:48:32.240 converted this is because we don't want to appear weak. That's not a negative impulse, by the way.

00:48:36.580 We shouldn't appear weak. But we have to understand when we're dealing with certain things and it

00:48:40.840 manifests in this way, we haven't bottled up our emotions. We've just transferred them.

00:48:43.960 I think it's also important for, again, wives that are interested in what's going on in their

00:48:50.000 husband's mind to appreciate that and appreciate he doesn't want to appear weak. He really doesn't

00:48:54.280 want to appear weak in front of you. So if you want to be able to talk to things or if you want him

00:48:59.020 to be able to open up to you, I would recommend that you do two things. One, you make sure that man

00:49:03.920 knows you respect him and you're on his side. I explain this to wives all the time. Men associate

00:49:10.540 love with loyalty. Every guy I know, myself included, has that one friend that is not good

00:49:18.220 for you. It's that one buddy where you're, all the women in your life is like, why do you even

00:49:23.900 spend, why? Guaranteed because at some moment, at some time, that guy was there for you. And because

00:49:30.620 you know that if you called him up at two o'clock in the morning and said he needs to show up with a

00:49:34.000 shovel, some lime and no questions asked, he'd be there. We associate loyalty with love. When a wife

00:49:40.360 makes her husband feel respected and he knows he has her loyalty, he is more willing to open up on

00:49:46.520 what's going on. The other thing she needs to understand is that there are some burdens that

00:49:52.200 men are just supposed to bear and we don't share it with our wives. We just don't. It's not that

00:49:58.340 there's something wrong within the marriage or the relationship. It's just that some of the

00:50:02.000 burdens are ours and you can't carry them for us. What you can do is create the sort of environment

00:50:08.640 where we don't mind carrying them. And I think when that's recognized in the way that men deal

00:50:14.060 with these issues and the way we express emotion, the way we deal through problems, we now, it allows

00:50:19.340 us to develop the sort of emotional maturity we have that is not only beneficial for us, but then is

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00:51:53.600 of your financial future today. I think that's so important. And one of the things that I get really

00:52:01.280 worried about, Nick, is when we associate our emotions with who we are and also we turn them

00:52:08.720 into identities. And you see this with social media and someone's got bipolar. And bipolar, by the way,

00:52:16.060 it's a very serious illness. I don't mean to trivialize it. If you've got bipolar one or two,

00:52:20.820 it is awful and it's a real cross to bear. But that's not your identity. Your identity isn't

00:52:26.540 bipolar. Your identity isn't the fact that maybe you've got some type of anger disorder.

00:52:31.840 Yeah. Well, this is another problem I have within the larger philosophical realm of what they call

00:52:36.980 intersectional politics. So the generous definition of intersectional politics is the understanding

00:52:44.700 that there have been historical injustices, oppressions, and depending on what sort of

00:52:50.860 groups that you fit into, then theoretically you could have been subject to more of those oppressions

00:52:55.600 or more of those, you know, systematic racism or sexism or whatever else. And the idea is, is that,

00:53:01.480 okay, if you're a woman, okay, well, then there were certain, you know, injustices. And again, we can

00:53:08.400 debate on what they are to what extent, but just for argument's sake. If you're a woman, okay, there were

00:53:12.600 certain injustices that you were subject to. But if you're a black woman, you actually had more injustices

00:53:16.600 that you were subject to. And so goes the intersectional pyramid. It is one thing to use that as an

00:53:22.200 analytical tool throughout history to say like, okay, how have things impacted and, and how do we

00:53:27.400 process this? It is another thing to make those things your entire identity, right? The injustices,

00:53:33.720 real or perceived, the entire identity, and to create a whole reward structure based off of it

00:53:38.600 to where now, well, if I want to go to the top of the intersectional period, well, that's fine. I just

00:53:43.380 identify as a queer, non-binary, trans cat. Poof, I'm there. I'm at the top of the intersectional

00:53:51.760 pyramid. Nobody's more oppressed than that. And, and so we, we have done this thing where we've

00:53:56.960 taken, Allie Beth Stuckey refers to it as toxic empathy. It's this idea where we have, we have

00:54:02.140 taken, we have taken things that we struggle with. Oftentimes we add, I think, diagnoses that I'm not

00:54:10.140 quite sure. There's a lot of self-diagnosis, a lot of TikTok diagnosis going on out there.

00:54:15.120 But we have things that in some cases are, are unique and we've made them our identity. So if someone

00:54:21.520 has been, if someone, look, if you were a black person growing up in the era of Jim Crow, there

00:54:25.120 is no question that the government was being utilized against you. Now, the question that we

00:54:32.200 should ask is, okay, having acknowledged this, what do we do about it now? Well, step one, don't do

00:54:37.860 those things to the government anymore. Like get rid of Jim Crow. Step two is, okay, well then to the

00:54:42.920 degree that recompense is, is necessary. How do we do that? But the thing that never, never should have

00:54:50.000 entered into this conversation is, and now you're a victim. That's a core component of

00:54:53.620 your identity. You can't get ahead without some sort of outside structure doing it. You have no

00:54:58.240 control over your, your future. That has been determined for you based off of the circumstances

00:55:03.640 that you found yourself in. It's just some of the most destructive, uh, it's destructive for the

00:55:11.620 individual. It's incredibly beneficial for the political structures to benefit from them.

00:55:15.880 Um, there, there are people that have made their entire careers, both professionally and

00:55:20.340 politically off of convincing people that there's no possible way they could do anything.

00:55:25.240 Um, one of the people that did that just got elected to mayor of New York city, but, um, but

00:55:30.720 yeah, it's, it's an incredibly destructive mindset and it, it, it seeks to rob people of their own

00:55:36.820 agency so that they'll transfer all responsibility over to somebody else. And yeah, it's corrosive.

00:55:43.900 And it's designed to make men miserable. Yes. Because if you feel that you have a look,

00:55:49.860 I can't speak for woman. I'm not a woman. It, but as a man, if you feel that you have no agency,

00:55:55.200 if you feel that you have no control over your life, that's a moment you enter very, very dangerous

00:56:01.700 places as a man, particularly as a young man. Yeah. Eric Hoffer talks about this in his book,

00:56:06.980 the true believer, uh, where he talks about the, uh, the nature of mass movements. And one of the

00:56:12.000 things he talks about there is when you can convince a group of people that essentially they,

00:56:15.620 they don't have any agency in and of themselves. There's no way that they can actually fix their

00:56:19.900 problems. They have to operate as part of the group. Well, once they've realized, well, I have

00:56:24.800 no agency. Well, if I have no agency, I have no responsibility, but I'm a victim, which means I'm a

00:56:30.320 victim of injustice. And now I get to go meet out whatever violence or actions need to against my

00:56:37.520 oppressors. And, and how do I just, how do I justify now doing horrible and egregious things to other

00:56:43.220 people? Well, it's not me. I'm doing it on behalf of the group. The group ends up getting their own

00:56:48.080 morality and then their own realm of, of justification for various actions. And now I can

00:56:52.360 go do these things as part of this group because the group now provides my identity. The group's my

00:56:57.680 source of strength, the group's, and it's not hard to see how we go from otherwise, otherwise reasonable

00:57:05.800 or rational people to justify the most evil of things as the worst manifestation of that. The, the kind

00:57:12.780 of, um, the other manifestation of it is just the absolute sense of helplessness. And in an age where

00:57:18.980 there's endless dopamine hits from everything, from, you know, games to porn to everything else,

00:57:24.780 you're, you're never going to really get a sense of meaning or fulfillment or purpose, but you can kind

00:57:29.380 of push yourself along day to day with, again, these little stimulus. The end result though,

00:57:35.900 is that eventually that just leads to, again, a really dark place of depression. And then at that

00:57:39.680 point, you see a lot of people either choosing to, you know, rebel in very, very dangerous and

00:57:44.400 destructive ways, or they, they choose other ways to end their suffering. So if you're a young man

00:57:51.440 listening to this, you're going to these three old blokes, because, you know, when you're 20, you think

00:57:54.900 anyone who's 40 is a granddad basically. Um, but, but you are facing real challenges in the world.

00:58:02.320 Um, you know, um, and this is one of the difficulties with men because, you know, we talked before we

00:58:08.660 started about the politics of all of this, the kind of woke left, what I call the woke right,

00:58:12.360 the different forms of basically the same thing, in my opinion, right? Particularly when it comes to

00:58:16.040 men. Um, but you are facing in the same way you talk about black people under Jim Crow,

00:58:21.940 definitely did face oppression. In that same way, if you're a young man today, you have not been

00:58:26.780 dealt the hand that the three of us were dealt with the world that we grew up in. So you're going to

00:58:31.680 have to overcome things that maybe the three of us didn't have to do. What is your advice to young

00:58:37.500 men now? You know, they've got all the porn in the world on their phone. They've got a society that's

00:58:43.600 been telling them they're a piece of shit for the last, for their entire lives, right? Because this is

00:58:47.800 something that Francis and I talked about when all of this, like the future is female men are trash

00:58:52.280 crap came along. Yeah. I talked to my wife about it and she was like, this is ridiculous. Like,

00:58:57.040 of course, no sane woman believes any of this crap, right? But if you're a 15 year old boy,

00:59:01.540 you haven't got anyone to tell you that you think that's what society thinks. So how do young men now

00:59:08.060 deal with the world that they're dealing with today? Be powerful, be productive, be constructive,

00:59:13.920 and make a positive impact on themselves, their families, and the world.

00:59:18.400 There's two messages here. And one is for those young men and one is for men more our age. Because

00:59:24.560 I got in a fight with my co-host, who's one of my best friends. He's 31. And I was talking about

00:59:30.040 masculinity and I was very much going for the, you know, hey, you got to pull yourself up by your

00:59:33.740 bootstraps. You got to like push ahead. You got to do forward, be a man. And clicked off the camera.

00:59:39.300 He goes, I'm so sick of hearing that crap. And I said, what? He goes, I'm so sick of hearing it

00:59:44.480 from you. And now I'm going to like, oh, I'm sorry. His life's just so damn hard for you.

00:59:51.980 Oh, I'm sorry. Where were you at 25? Because I was sitting behind a 50 cal machine gun in Iraq.

00:59:57.620 You want to bitch to me about how tough life is? Let's talk about it. And he goes, you know what,

01:00:02.320 Nick? You're right. You're right. You were over there fighting a war. And you know what? They loved you for

01:00:07.740 it. They loved you. You were a man. You were a warrior. You had a beautiful wife waiting at home.

01:00:12.840 You had kids that couldn't wait to see you again. And he goes, I don't pretend for one second. I know

01:00:17.460 what it's like to fight a war the way you did, but you don't get to pretend that you know what it's

01:00:21.500 like to be told your entire life, that every single instinct you applied on that battlefield,

01:00:26.120 every sort of instinct that was rewarded by a wife and a child and a grateful nation.

01:00:31.480 I don't know what any of that is. That's what I'm going through.

01:00:35.860 And I had to apologize because I'm going to tell you right now, war sucks.

01:00:46.780 But that sucks worse. That sucks worse. And so we started really talking about that. Like,

01:00:55.920 okay, what was this like? What was this like going through elementary school, middle school,

01:00:59.880 high school, college? What was it like just being inundated with this?

01:01:03.040 And what's interesting is we came to the conclusion at the end of it that it has to be

01:01:12.280 acknowledged that young men and specifically, let's really piss everybody off, specifically

01:01:17.280 young white men and young Christian men and young Christian men, you were responsible for all the

01:01:23.240 world's ills, right? Everything about you is wrong. And the only thing that you have to look forward in

01:01:28.180 your life is to sit down, shut up, and now do as you're told as penance for things that happened

01:01:32.980 before you were ever born. That is unjust as hell. That is not just wrong on practical levels.

01:01:43.220 That is one of the most destructive things you could do to the human spirit.

01:01:46.540 So what do we do about it? So I would say for men my age, we need to understand that the unique

01:01:56.140 trials that we went through are unique trials. And our fathers went through different ones,

01:02:00.600 and our grandfathers went through different ones. But the one that they're going through

01:02:05.360 is actually really, really unique. I would argue that never before in human history have we had an

01:02:10.740 entire culturally, like almost every single major culturally shaping institution telling young men

01:02:18.300 they were crap. That's unique. And so respect what they're going through is very, very difficult in

01:02:23.920 that sense. And yeah, they might have more creature comforts. They might have more technology. They might

01:02:27.920 have things that appear to make life easier that we never dreamt of when we were their age. But would

01:02:33.780 you trade any of that for a real sense of meaning and purpose? I sure as hell wouldn't.

01:02:38.400 And so that's what they're looking for. That's what they're looking for. And they want the

01:02:45.300 challenges. There's a reason why young men are going back into the church in numbers that we

01:02:50.020 haven't seen. The church attendance has been on the decline, especially among men since the 70s.

01:02:55.580 It has now started to reverse for the first time in close to six decades. Why? They're looking for

01:03:01.800 meaning. They're looking for purpose. They want the truth. They want something worth fighting for.

01:03:05.660 But they got to have they got to come alongside people that actually understand what they've

01:03:09.620 just gone through and what they're rebelling against so that it can be moved in the right

01:03:12.880 direction. The other thing I would tell young men and this again, this sucks because young men

01:03:17.900 are polling more conservative than they've ever been. Young women are polling more liberal than

01:03:23.180 they've ever been. They did a NBC poll. They asked four different groups. They were all young men and

01:03:29.580 women, but it was young men and women that voted for Harris, young men and women that voted for Trump.

01:03:35.120 And it was 13 priorities. The number 12th priority for women that voted for Harris was having kids.

01:03:41.000 It was the ninth priority for men that voted for Harris. It was the sixth priority for women that

01:03:44.400 voted for Trump. It was the number one priority for men that voted for Trump. Having kids, having a

01:03:49.520 legacy, having a family, having something to fight for. Now, the good news about this is that

01:03:55.220 these men are insisting upon this, regardless of what culture tells them. And thank God,

01:04:00.720 because that is what has been needed this entire time. We need young men to see themselves as the

01:04:07.620 leaders that we need them to be. We're all familiar with that circle of strong men create good times,

01:04:14.360 good times create weak men, weak men create hard times, hard times create good men. Hard times do not

01:04:19.820 create good men. Good men are appreciated for what they do in hard times in ways that they are not

01:04:26.580 during the good times. And the sucky part is for young men is the only way through this is if you

01:04:34.760 choose to be the good men that the times require, that's it. If you're going to wait for anybody to

01:04:41.260 reward you for it, if you're going to wait for feminism to end, I understand every single instinct

01:04:47.140 that's got to be jumping out of you going, fine. You don't want the sort of men that actually make

01:04:50.880 all of this work. You don't get it then. And we'll see how long you last. I understand that

01:04:57.180 inclination. But I will tell you this, if we go back to that NBC poll and we check it again in about

01:05:03.360 five years, I promise you the conservative women will be placing family and getting married higher

01:05:10.400 up in their list of priorities. Why? Because when good men lead the way I believe that we were designed

01:05:16.520 and created to do it, when we actually display the sort of attributes, the sort of honor, the sort

01:05:21.340 of strength, the sort of integrity, women are attracted to it. And there's nothing that the

01:05:27.340 university can ultimately do about that. There's nothing the politics can eventually do. They can

01:05:30.660 fight it tooth and nail. They've created those conditions. Let's be very honest about it. They've

01:05:34.760 created these conditions. But the way to fight it is to essentially ignore it and do what you know to be

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01:07:06.700 Code trigonometry for 40% off at sheath.com. It's such a profound point because you look at

01:07:15.760 both sexes and you look at the men who are angry, disaffected, vengeful in many cases,

01:07:24.760 and you understand and you have an empathy for them. And you look at women who are distrustful

01:07:29.180 of men, angry, resentful, and vengeful as well. And you go, if we both continue down these paths,

01:07:36.400 what that will ultimately lead to is a destruction of civilization. We cannot go on like this. So we

01:07:42.820 really need to find a way to bridge the gap between men and women and not just conservative men,

01:07:48.500 but also liberal women. Because I'm sure if you sat down with the majority of them and you go,

01:07:52.560 look, you want the career in all of this, but what do you really want? And they're like, no,

01:07:57.160 no, no, no. What do you really want? Deep down. I'm sure that for the vast majority, they'd go,

01:08:03.100 I want to get married and I want to have kids. Yeah. And what they need to understand,

01:08:09.000 and this has been the other part, is I feel like on the more conservative side, on the Christian side,

01:08:15.000 it's almost like we've felt apologetic in the way that we explained what we believed and why we thought

01:08:21.620 it was necessary and why we thought it was important. I don't do that anymore. I don't

01:08:25.620 do that anymore. Like no more caveats. I believe this is correct. I believe it is true. I believe

01:08:30.240 it produces positive results when it is faithfully applied. And I believe that maybe, because one of

01:08:36.940 the most depressing statistics, shifting to women here for a second, we live in the most feminist,

01:08:43.500 futurist female empowering point in world history for women and the women who are most miserable

01:08:53.320 as judged by those that have been diagnosed with significant mental health issues are liberal women

01:08:58.740 between the ages of 18 and 29. It's over 50%. Over half of the women that you think would be celebrating

01:09:05.420 all of the victories that have been achieved. Nope. It's the women that have embraced this philosophy

01:09:10.520 the most completely that are the most miserable with the results of it. So maybe at some point,

01:09:15.680 it's time to just say, you know what? I don't care how many studies you throw at me. I don't care how

01:09:19.880 many experts, right, within the gender studies department tells me I'm supposed to feel this

01:09:24.360 way. I don't. It's not working. And yet, when I look at that couple over there that seem to be strong

01:09:32.380 in their faith, strong in their relationship, they're not competing with one another as husband and wife

01:09:36.800 or man and woman. They're cooperating with one another. They're respectful of each other's

01:09:40.640 roles. Not to say that all the roles have to be the exact same way, but no. My wife likes to joke

01:09:48.100 that if you go read the Proverbs 31 woman, that's the most intimidating woman she's ever heard of in

01:09:53.180 her life. So no, it's not this idea. It's not an aesthetic or a fetish where we talked like the trad

01:09:59.360 wife or the traditional. It's not that. It's the idea of if you're willing to entertain the possibility

01:10:06.000 that maybe, just maybe, we were created for very specific and important roles that are not supposed

01:10:12.720 to be competitive. They're supposed to be cooperative. And when we embrace them, instead

01:10:16.520 of doing everything within our power to rage against them because our professor told us to,

01:10:21.820 when we actually embrace them, we're all happier. We all feel a greater sense of meaning and purpose.

01:10:28.700 It doesn't mean that everything ends up perfect. I love my wife. I love my marriage. I love my kids.

01:10:33.520 It doesn't mean we faithfully executed everything that I just talked about here without any flaws.

01:10:38.100 No, we have screwed it up. But I think one of God's greatest gifts

01:10:42.260 is an imperfect but faithful attempt to apply these principles is blessed way beyond the value

01:10:51.420 of your individual effort. And I think if we can convince people of that, not just in the arguments

01:10:56.840 that we make, but in the way that we actually live our life, we're going to be able to show a lot of

01:11:01.200 young people away out of a darkness that they've been feeling for a long time right now.

01:11:05.200 And I think there's reason to be hopeful, not least because, as you said, the experiment's been

01:11:09.520 run for long enough now. And no one wants to talk about this because you're going to get,

01:11:15.320 you know, hay and whatever. But I can tell you, just from speaking to people, that if you talk to

01:11:21.460 women our age and a little bit younger who didn't have a family, who didn't have kids,

01:11:26.480 who were at the very forefront of the, you know, strong, confident, whatever the language is,

01:11:33.800 right? It's a tragedy, but a lot of them actually, if you speak to them in a trusting environment

01:11:41.940 and they are honest, they're not happy with the choices they've made. And that's the thing that

01:11:48.960 people don't like to talk about because particularly for women, it's obviously a very sensitive subject.

01:11:52.780 And once you've made a certain choice, it's very unpleasant to have to acknowledge that reality.

01:11:59.460 But I believe, you know, I believe we're going to see people like that on our show over time

01:12:03.260 who say, actually, I made the wrong choice and I was brainwashed into doing it. And I'm not for any

01:12:09.620 moment saying that every woman has to make the choice that the three of us approve of.

01:12:14.100 No, no.

01:12:14.800 But I'm just saying, I'm hearing a lot more of that than I've ever heard before.

01:12:20.880 The way I've tried to explain it, because you're right, when you have made your political

01:12:26.860 philosophy your identity, asking someone to give it up feels like a part of you is dying.

01:12:34.040 Right.

01:12:34.120 And the way I try to explain this for anybody that at least is willing to give me a good

01:12:42.040 faith audience, I am not trying to beat them in an argument. Like no part of me wants to

01:12:49.920 gloat over this and say, see, I told you so. That could not be farther from my intention

01:12:55.820 or desire. I honestly believe that there's something to all of this. And just as if I

01:13:03.120 would try to warn someone from running, just as if I would try to earnestly warn someone

01:13:07.020 from running into a burning building. That's what this is. I don't want, I want you to avoid

01:13:12.820 the burning building. Not so I can say, see, I told you so, but because it sucks. And this

01:13:19.000 is perhaps even more important. It's not just about avoiding things that are going to cause

01:13:23.100 you pain. It's about truly getting to appreciate the beauty and wonder of what it is to build

01:13:28.920 a life with another person, to have kids, to watch them grow. Like I am, I am at a, I'm

01:13:33.920 at a phase of my life now where all my kids are graduated from high school. I've walked a

01:13:39.840 daughter down the aisle. My son is now in the military. I'm watching them go through these

01:13:45.000 milestones in life and I'm watching them be confident in their faith, what they believe,

01:13:49.960 what they want, their values. And it is so incredibly rewarding. It's just that I am

01:13:59.780 now, I'm now looking forward to being a grandfather here probably in the next couple of years.

01:14:05.780 And it's, it's one of those things where I am getting to watch, I am getting to watch a

01:14:12.140 legacy being built in real time. And man, man, if you want something that just worth fighting

01:14:20.960 for, um, that's, that's what I'm trying to convince people of. Not that I'm right,

01:14:27.080 but that this is worth it.

01:14:28.860 Well, Nick, we appreciate you, man. You're a great voice in the space, responsible, principled,

01:14:34.080 dignified. You've thought a lot of these things through and you speak from, from the heart. So

01:14:38.600 we appreciate you, man. Thanks for coming on. We're going to ask you some questions from our

01:14:42.620 supporters. Uh, but before we do, you have another opportunity to absolutely nail the next year

01:14:49.060 and predict what, what the next biggest problem is going to be. What's the one thing we're not

01:14:52.800 talking about that we should be? Before Nick answers a final question at the end of the interview,

01:14:57.280 make sure to head over to our sub stack. The link is in the description where you'll be able to see

01:15:02.160 this. What is the most important thing I should teach my son? From the perspective of someone

01:15:08.180 with experience in the military, what is your opinion of the ongoing tensions with China?

01:15:12.760 What's the one thing we're not talking about that we should be? Um, we are reaching a point in the

01:15:18.140 West. And, and I, I, I do not relish saying this at all. I'm not advocating for this. I'm just observing

01:15:24.920 it. Um, we're reaching the point in the West where it is going to become very, very difficult to

01:15:30.840 peacefully reconcile our differences. Um, the worldviews that are battling it out right now.

01:15:37.060 And, and again, I, I'm always very, very, I'm always trying to be very specific in saying this.

01:15:40.980 I don't see other people as my enemy, but I do see other ideologies that I despise and hate and think

01:15:47.860 are evil and that we can't peacefully coexist with. So my job is not to defeat people that believe

01:15:55.120 those things. My job is to hopefully convince people to stop believing in those things. But we

01:15:59.980 are, we're coming to a point where there is either going, either one side's going to win or there's

01:16:05.320 going to be some sort of forced separation because I will not live under the things that they are

01:16:14.280 trying to impose. I won't. Um, I will, I will use every single peaceful measure I possibly can through

01:16:23.360 voting and through elections and through argumentation, but I've seen what they want

01:16:29.620 and I've seen what they're willing to do to get it. And there is a point where I'm not going to comply.

01:16:35.980 Can you be more specific if you're going to create legal conditions where I no longer feel

01:16:47.660 I have the ability to provide for my family, protect my family, or raise my children in the

01:16:53.680 way that I want them to go. If you're going to insist on constantly intervening in that process

01:17:00.060 to disarm me, to make it impossible for me to be able to provide unless I comply with

01:17:05.600 whatever new restrictions or regulations that you've put on to specifically target me because

01:17:10.040 you don't like me. If you take away my ability to be the primary educator within my, in my child's

01:17:16.560 life, I'm not living under that yoke. And so there's a, there's a point where, again, I don't

01:17:23.960 think we're at it yet. I don't think we're at it yet. And in the United States, we used to take

01:17:28.220 great, great pride in federalism as a way that we allowed California to be California while other

01:17:34.200 places could be other places. And what we found is that's not good enough for them. And so if

01:17:39.240 they're not willing to afford us an opportunity, a space where we can live and let live, then they're

01:17:46.240 the ones forcing us into a situation where one side has to win or leave. And I think we're getting

01:17:52.300 closer to that point. And again, I don't, there are a lot of people that say that because they just feel

01:17:56.260 like they can't wait to get into a shooting war. I've been in a shooting war. I don't want my kids

01:18:02.480 around a shooting war. I don't want the destruction of my country. I don't want the destruction of

01:18:06.660 Western civilization, but I see it happening in real time. And, and I see political forces, which are

01:18:14.460 not only welcoming it, but celebrating it. Well, I'm sorry. I'm not, I'm not going to tolerate that.

01:18:22.020 So. Nick Freitas, thanks for coming on. Head on over to triggerpot.co.uk where we're going to ask

01:18:28.540 Nick your questions. How does a Green Beret or any serviceman deal with the possibility they are not

01:18:36.020 fighting for a just cause? Ooh, that's a good one. How do you now view the USA's involvement in Iraq?

01:18:41.780 Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything like packing a spare stick. I like to be

01:19:05.660 prepared. That's why I remember 988 Canada's Suicide Crisis Helpline. It's good to know just

01:19:11.660 in case. Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a trained responder

01:19:16.460 anytime. 988 Suicide Crisis Helpline is funded by the government of Canada.

TRIGGERnometry - December 03, 2025

The Masculinity Crisis and How To Solve It - Nick Freitas

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