TRIGGERnometry - The Next Mayor of New York？ - Olivia Reingold

00:00:01.000 Who is Zoran Mamdani?

00:00:03.000 The second you ask about him, they're smiling.

00:00:06.000 They love this guy.

00:00:07.000 His signature promises are a rent freeze.

00:00:10.000 If you're noticing a common theme,

00:00:12.000 it's free or subsidized services.

00:00:15.000 The real connective tissue of his politics

00:00:19.000 is Israel and Palestine.

00:00:21.000 I've heard this talking point often

00:00:24.000 from conservative commentators

00:00:26.000 that we hope he's mayor

00:00:28.000 because he's going to make our job easy,

00:00:30.000 because we're going to run on him in 2026 during the midterms.

00:00:34.000 He's going to make our job easy for the presidential race in 2028.

00:00:38.000 I think that's totally misguided.

00:00:40.000 Who he's resonating most with

00:00:43.000 are these people who are really struggling

00:00:46.000 to kind of break into the hallmarks of adulthood.

00:00:51.000 The charisma is next level,

00:00:53.000 and I do think that helps explain

00:00:56.000 so much of the overnight success.

00:00:58.000 How much experience does he have running things?

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00:02:18.000 Olivia, welcome to Trigonometry.

00:02:20.000 Thanks for having me.

00:02:21.000 Oh, it's great to have you on.

00:02:22.000 You have done something that very few people have done,

00:02:25.000 which is you read every single one of Zoran Mamdani's tweets

00:02:28.000 and done a lot of investigation and reading up into him.

00:02:32.000 He's obviously become a huge figure in American,

00:02:36.000 I was going to say politics,

00:02:37.000 but I think he's also a cultural figure in a way as well.

00:02:40.000 So first and foremost, who is Zoran Mamdani?

00:02:43.000 So thank you for acknowledging the fact that I had to read

00:02:46.000 all 16,000 of his tweets when I got to the year 2020.

00:02:50.000 It was a long few days getting through that.

00:02:55.000 But Zoran Mamdani, so where to begin?

00:02:58.000 He is the Democratic nominee to become the next mayor of New York City.

00:03:07.000 And by all measures, he could be the future of the Democratic Party.

00:03:11.000 So he's a real force of nature.

00:03:13.000 Only a year ago, I don't even know if most of his constituents knew his name,

00:03:19.000 but now certainly almost anyone you ask in New York City

00:03:24.000 not only has heard of Zoran Mamdani, but the second you ask about him,

00:03:29.000 they're smiling.

00:03:30.000 They love this guy.

00:03:32.000 His favorability rating is through the roof.

00:03:35.000 And why does he matter?

00:03:37.000 Well, he is a socialist.

00:03:40.000 Now he's walked that back.

00:03:42.000 He's a Democratic socialist.

00:03:44.000 But, you know, I went through all the tweets and I feel safe saying he's a socialist.

00:03:50.000 And he has reformed the Democratic Party in his image in a lot of ways.

00:03:56.000 So what did you find in the tweets?

00:03:59.000 Well, he is no fan of capitalism.

00:04:02.000 In fact, an exact quote is capitalism is theft.

00:04:07.000 A huge pet issue of his was being pro-prostitution.

00:04:13.000 He felt like this was an issue of safety for migrants, for trans New Yorkers.

00:04:23.000 So, you know, the whole...

00:04:26.000 I think the best way to think about who is Zoran Mamdani and what does he support

00:04:30.000 is picture the most fervent Columbia protester.

00:04:35.000 That was the anti-Israel encampment that was at Columbia University, which is an Ivy League.

00:04:42.000 Don't mean to brag, but I spent about a week there.

00:04:45.000 Just joking, that's not bragging at all.

00:04:47.000 It was not that great of a time.

00:04:49.000 But just picture what they believe.

00:04:53.000 That is likely what Zoran believes too.

00:04:55.000 He comes at politics from an extremely academic place.

00:05:00.000 So any of these...

00:05:02.000 Academic or activist?

00:05:04.000 Both.

00:05:05.000 Both.

00:05:06.000 But his father is a professor at Columbia University who specializes in colonization and decolonization studies.

00:05:14.000 And so this is a guy who is seeped in an academic leftist ideology.

00:05:26.000 I mean, look, some of the things you're talking about, there's quite a lot of people in the Democratic Party who think capitalism is theft.

00:05:33.000 There's quite a lot of people in this country who are pro-Palestine or anti-Israel, whichever way you want to frame it.

00:05:39.000 The thing that I saw in an article that you wrote that I think is the most staggering is that he repeatedly said that he wanted to defund the police.

00:05:49.000 Right.

00:05:50.000 And this is not an exaggeration.

00:05:52.000 It's not a stretch statement.

00:05:55.000 He literally said over and over, we need to defund the police.

00:05:58.000 And the reason I bring this up is, as mayor of New York, if you believe in defunding the police or you have said that in the past, now sure, you are going to walk it back because everyone understands New York needs police.

00:06:13.000 But what that means for a city that's already struggling with crime, I don't get it.

00:06:21.000 Right.

00:06:22.000 Well, the crime statistics, it's very confusing.

00:06:26.000 You know, a lot of people, they squint at the data right now and they say, crime is going down.

00:06:31.000 But there's a sense of disorder, lawlessness.

00:06:35.000 I mean, I recently was a victim of package theft.

00:06:39.000 Thank you for your condolences.

00:06:41.000 So, yeah, when you go on the subway, I mean, commonly when I leave my apartment, I'm asked for money, you know, five, seven times.

00:06:52.000 So, but yeah, so regarding the police, he has said over and over again, that's those tweets from 2020 I was talking about, that he wants to defund the police.

00:07:04.000 He called them anti-queer, racist, etc. And now he is trying to undo some of that damage.

00:07:13.000 But the damage has already been done because I spoke to police officers who said that they're just going to retire if Zoran is elected.

00:07:22.000 Because he said things like that he wants to give disciplinary review and authority to this review board, this disciplinary board, instead of the police commissioner.

00:07:39.000 And a lot of officers feel like, well, you know, I'm already always one, one second away from a potential lawsuit because all of these regulations and the body cams and etc., etc.

00:07:54.000 So, officers feel like their job could not only be more dangerous because they feel like Mom Donnie could potentially stoke anti-police sentiment, but that, you know, they really worry, they sincerely worry about ending up in prison because they feel like if Zoran becomes the mayor, he's just not going to have their back.

00:08:21.560 I think it's really important that we've touched on some very interesting things, but one thing that I really want to know is, who is Zoran Mamdani?

00:08:29.440 Like I said, we've touched on it a little bit, but I really want to delve into this.

00:08:32.920 And how has he come to this position of prominence?

00:08:35.380 Like, I follow American politics pretty closely.

00:08:38.500 Right.

00:08:38.980 I wouldn't pretend that I'm an expert or that I live here or any of those things, but I follow it pretty closely.

00:08:44.180 And yet this guy has come from left field.

00:08:46.760 And all of a sudden, everyone went to me, oh, do you know who the next mayor of New York is going to be?

00:08:51.560 And they went, Zoran Mamdani.

00:08:52.740 I'm like, I've never heard of it.

00:08:54.020 What about Eric Adams?

00:08:54.980 What about the, you know, Cuomo who I've heard of?

00:08:56.720 What about the other candidates?

00:08:57.980 So let's talk about that because I think that's very important so that people get an understanding of who this individual is.

00:09:03.340 Absolutely.

00:09:03.680 So it reminds me a lot of 2016, leading up to the primary, Zoran was not, polling said that Cuomo, the former governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo, this is a guy who once was talked about as a presidential, potential presidential candidate.

00:09:22.780 So polling was showing that Andrew Cuomo, he had this in the bag.

00:09:27.120 And yet I really felt like it was going to be Zoran.

00:09:31.420 I mean, I would be on the subway and all, all the cool people, they were, they were carrying hot girls for Zoran bags.

00:09:40.240 It became a huge trend on social media to post his support.

00:09:44.900 He was getting all these endorsements that typically would go to someone like Cuomo.

00:09:52.300 But yeah, a year ago, he was polling at 1% and just had this meteoric rise.

00:09:59.420 So who is Zoran Mamdani?

00:10:01.820 Well, as a person, he comes from a very privileged family, which is ironic because he's become this champion of the working class.

00:10:13.960 But his mother, you might have heard of her.

00:10:16.640 Her name is Mira Nair.

00:10:18.180 She was the director of The Namesake, Monsoon Wedding, I think is what it's called.

00:10:24.900 It's a 2001, these really successful films.

00:10:27.420 And so, yeah, his, his mom is this successful director.

00:10:32.940 The dad is the Columbia University professor.

00:10:35.420 And he's, he was born in Uganda, lived in South Africa for a little bit, moves to New York City.

00:10:42.460 And he, he moves to Queens.

00:10:48.400 He lives there for a little less than two years and decides he's going to run for the state house.

00:10:55.820 And even in that race, he ran against, um, an incumbent who had been on the job for a decade.

00:11:05.740 And, you know, he was the underdog then.

00:11:08.900 That's, that's the main thread of Zoran's entire career is he's always been the underdog and he's always made the impossible happen.

00:11:16.960 And so he won his state house seat by a couple hundred votes.

00:11:22.720 Um, and when he was in the state house, well, there's something we haven't gotten to yet, which is the, the real connective tissue of his politics is, is Israel and, and Palestine.

00:11:34.940 And so his main bill that he, uh, introduced in the state legislature was an act that was intended to penalize nonprofits that might've had connections to settlements in the West Bank.

00:11:50.280 Um, and he has said over and over again in interviews that Palestine is why I got into politics.

00:11:59.380 He, yeah. Okay. Now you're getting interested. Yeah.

00:12:03.160 No, I was interested before, but that is, that is a pretty bold statement because that's not about what's going on in New York.

00:12:10.760 I understand if you've come from a left-wing persuasion, which I have some empathy for, I'll be honest.

00:12:15.820 And you see, you know, poor people struggling. You go, that's why I got into politics. Look, that makes sense.

00:12:20.200 But Palestine is why I got into politics. That's nothing to do. 1.00

00:12:23.140 It is, it is interesting. Um, especially because, you know, he, a talking point that a lot of his supporters say, uh, in response to how much he is pressed on Israel, they say, guys, he's not running to be mayor of Tel Aviv.

00:12:38.400 And yet, when he talks about this issue, there are so many things he could say about the domestic impact. I mean, I think October 7th changed New York City.

00:12:50.860 It just feels different, I think, to a lot of Jewish New Yorkers. And yet, he hardly ever talks about the real implications here.

00:13:00.280 When he releases statements, it's, it's genuinely all about foreign policy.

00:13:04.200 But yeah, so he, when he was in college, he went to a pretty fancy school called Bowdoin.

00:13:09.980 Now it costs nearly $100,000 a year. Um, he co-founded the school's chapter of Students for Justice in Palestine, which is a pretty radical group.

00:13:23.160 Uh, after October 7th, it released a statement that was, was, uh, basically a condemnation of Israel.

00:13:32.460 Uh, so, yeah, this is another topic, uh, in, on which he has attempted to moderate on.

00:13:39.580 But when you go back to his past, he really comes at it from this, this radical academic, uh, history.

00:13:47.500 And so, he was in the statehouse, he got elected, he was an underdog, which, by the way, and I think we need to talk about this as well,

00:13:54.200 whatever we think about him, this marks him out as a very talented politician.

00:13:57.640 Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I, I saw a clip recently. I mean, as, as we've said, I read all of his tweets.

00:14:05.340 I have gone so deep on this man's life. I have a spreadsheet of people whose doors I aspire to knock on in Uganda, where he was born.

00:14:16.620 Uh, and he has made me laugh. He's made me think. Like, I saw an amazing clip of him recently, where there was this heckler who, he literally, it's, I know that guy, too.

00:14:28.920 He goes to every Zoran event and just yells at him. He was yelling at Zoran. He was yelling, communists, you're a communist.

00:14:35.400 Zoran was getting on a city bike, which is, like, the New York City, you know, uh, not free, but it's, it's a, a cheap bike service.

00:14:43.260 And he was getting on a city bike, and this guy's yelling, communists, and Zoran turns, and he's like, it's pronounced cyclists.

00:14:50.340 And, what, yeah, what can you say? The, the charisma is, is next level.

00:14:56.000 And I do think that helps explain so much of the overnight success, is charisma and positivity.

00:15:04.480 It's interesting, because it's, it's kind of, um, an inverse in some ways of Trump, of populism on the right, where he is, Zoran is tapping into this class grievance.

00:15:17.740 Uh, like I said, he champions himself as, uh, for the working class.

00:15:23.600 And yet, a lot of people make comparisons to Obama.

00:15:27.700 A lot of people, when they, when they talk to me about Zoran, they use the word hope.

00:15:31.380 He gives me hope.

00:15:32.580 And so, yeah, I think there's, there's grievance under the surface, but he is always smiling.

00:15:39.460 In, in the last debate that he had with, uh, Andrew Cuomo and the Republican candidate, he smiled through the whole thing.

00:15:48.600 He was obviously really frustrated.

00:15:50.340 So, even when he's frustrated, he's just, he's smiling, always.

00:15:53.920 Does that work?

00:15:54.940 Because, uh, it might be just a British-American thing, but when I see, when I see someone who's being heavily criticized, and they smile through it, that makes me think that person's inauthentic.

00:16:07.220 Right. 0.87

00:16:07.520 Because, if you call me a dick to my face, I'm not going to be like, mm, you know what I mean, right? 0.98

00:16:12.600 Like, I might be serious, or I might take it on, or I might, but, does that work here? 0.97

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00:17:52.740 It's hard to say.

00:17:59.780 I will say, in that debate, it was getting really, it was a smile, but it was getting really intense.

00:18:07.140 So, but I think that cracks are already starting to show.

00:18:10.920 Like, on the topic of Israel, he often uses the talking point that I want to be the mayor of New York City for all New Yorkers,

00:18:23.140 even those who disagree with me on the topic of Israel.

00:18:26.620 But, you know, when he's pressed on it, he kind of can't really answer, well, how are you going to protect Jewish New Yorkers against anti-Semitism

00:18:40.620 if you're convinced that anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism, like, in most, or if not all, instances.

00:18:49.400 So, I think if he is elected mayor, I think the thing about Zoran is he, he's an excellent campaigner.

00:19:01.360 He, and in some ways his primary campaign had way more energy than now the general election campaign has had,

00:19:11.100 because everyone who was helping him organize, they, I think they love this idea of the underdog.

00:19:19.280 And so, we'll see if he's elected, if he is able to, I think, I think he's, the frustration is going to come through,

00:19:31.380 because he's going to have to build a moderate coalition, and already this activist wing that has really supported him,

00:19:40.320 there's this organization, the Democratic Socialists of America, which is becoming an increasingly important force in American politics.

00:19:51.020 I think they're probably going to butt heads eventually.

00:19:55.220 But is this mile working?

00:19:57.880 I think so far, yeah.

00:20:00.040 The reason I ask is culturally, Britain and America are very different.

00:20:03.620 I think that's part of it.

00:20:04.900 So, in terms of policies that actually affect the lives of the overwhelming majority of New Yorkers,

00:20:12.740 what is he, what are his central beliefs and promises?

00:20:18.820 So, he would say his campaign is all about affordability,

00:20:23.020 that his signature promises are a rent freeze,

00:20:26.600 that, you know, asterisk, it's only to rent stabilized units,

00:20:32.180 which is about 40% of, of all rental housing in New York.

00:20:36.840 So, that's the first thing, a rent freeze.

00:20:39.460 Fast and free buses.

00:20:41.180 So, he wants to take the New York City bus system, make it free,

00:20:46.660 and then he says making it free is also going to make it faster.

00:20:50.700 That's, that's what he says with that.

00:20:55.020 Okay, and then the, the, the other signature promise would be free childcare for children under six.

00:21:04.340 So, it's a lot of, if you're noticing a common theme, it's free or subsidized services.

00:21:12.720 And what about, I mean, you say, you know, statistically speaking, crime is down in New York.

00:21:18.700 We keep being told crime is down in London.

00:21:21.100 Crime is not down in London.

00:21:22.240 Yeah.

00:21:22.660 Like, if you walk around, it's not down.

00:21:25.060 People are getting mugged all the time, phone stolen, stuff, take a snapshot out of it, right?

00:21:29.260 Absolutely, yeah.

00:21:29.460 When I go to New York, I don't walk around going,

00:21:31.820 this place feels like it's getting safer every day.

00:21:34.200 No.

00:21:34.700 And we come there a couple of times every year.

00:21:37.300 Yeah.

00:21:37.800 Like, you don't feel safe walking around at night in like,

00:21:40.380 No.

00:21:40.840 Very wealthy parts of New York, right?

00:21:43.080 Right, right.

00:21:43.360 So, I suppose the question is, why is his message of free stuff resonating in a city that's experiencing increasing levels of disorder and lack of safety?

00:21:55.060 Yeah, it's interesting because I've heard interviews where Zoran says, or actually it's really with his team.

00:22:04.000 I've heard his team speak candidly that the polling was showing, when he was considering a run for mayor,

00:22:11.820 polling was showing that the number one issue New Yorkers cared about was safety.

00:22:17.840 That is the message that Cuomo ended up going with.

00:22:23.280 And Zoran had this impulse, no, we really need to focus on affordability.

00:22:27.980 And ultimately, that was totally the right decision.

00:22:31.320 And it's really interesting because the stereotypical Zoran voter is, 0.55

00:22:37.280 they probably make $100,000 to $140,000 a year.

00:22:43.000 They live probably in Brooklyn or gentrifying parts of Queens and have a college degree.

00:22:52.000 And you might ask, why?

00:22:54.540 Yeah.

00:22:54.940 Sorry, the reason I'm going to interrupt you is,

00:22:57.040 that might sound like a caricature from a Mamdani critic

00:23:01.160 who wants to peg him as like a fake voice of the people.

00:23:06.360 He doesn't actually care.

00:23:07.380 Can you put some stats on, do we know how it breaks down?

00:23:10.720 Oh, okay.

00:23:12.240 Yeah, I guess I was trying to talk about the actual caricature,

00:23:15.280 but his, let me think about what do I know about his actual coalition.

00:23:21.240 I don't think we,

00:23:25.120 I don't think I have stats on like, I mean,

00:23:28.640 his coalition includes like Jewish New Yorkers.

00:23:33.280 He and Cuomo are actually kind of breaking even on Jewish New Yorkers regarding,

00:23:40.460 I think he does his best bracket though,

00:23:44.140 is probably,

00:23:45.980 I think the range is like 100,000 to 150,000,

00:23:50.740 is the strongest bracket.

00:23:52.940 But he,

00:23:53.560 he's polling competitively in all,

00:23:57.140 that's,

00:23:57.560 I guess that's why I'm struggling to limit the coalition.

00:24:00.020 That's why I interrupted you because when you say a stereotypical voter,

00:24:03.440 it sort of makes it sound like that's the bulk of his base.

00:24:05.720 Whereas what you're saying is,

00:24:07.160 that is an area he does very well in.

00:24:09.420 It's really.

00:24:10.300 But he does well with pretty much every group in New York.

00:24:13.480 Is that fair?

00:24:14.040 Yeah.

00:24:14.260 The caricature of the Zoran voter, 0.95

00:24:18.580 that caricature of the Zoran voter,

00:24:21.780 of someone who makes,

00:24:22.820 you know,

00:24:23.300 a hundred,

00:24:24.140 whatever,

00:24:24.720 thousand dollars a year,

00:24:25.720 lives in Brooklyn,

00:24:26.580 et cetera.

00:24:27.500 They are,

00:24:29.180 at first,

00:24:30.080 they were kind of his entire coalition.

00:24:33.000 These are people who are members of the Democratic Socialists of America,

00:24:37.900 just like he is.

00:24:38.800 But increasingly his coalition has become really comprehensive where he is,

00:24:45.380 polling is showing that he's starting to crack into Cuomo's base,

00:24:50.480 people that the Cuomo camp is relying on.

00:24:53.280 So we're talking about Black voters,

00:24:55.500 people who live in public housing in New York,

00:24:58.780 Asian voters.

00:24:59.580 I mean,

00:25:00.700 every demographic Cuomo is,

00:25:05.320 or sorry,

00:25:05.940 every demographic Mom Donnie is basically going head to head with Cuomo on. 0.94

00:25:11.520 And it's interesting you talk about affordability.

00:25:14.320 And the reason people become successful is,

00:25:17.380 you know,

00:25:17.660 we can talk about the smile,

00:25:18.960 we can talk about the charisma,

00:25:20.280 and the guy's got charisma to burn.

00:25:22.540 Let's just be honest about that.

00:25:24.200 And he's super likable.

00:25:26.300 The smile leaves,

00:25:27.220 but I'm British,

00:25:27.960 like we said.

00:25:28.460 But one of the things is when people resonate,

00:25:33.700 it's for a very particular reason.

00:25:35.880 And you said affordability.

00:25:37.400 And I'm going to be honest with you,

00:25:38.180 we're doing all right at Trigg.

00:25:39.580 You know,

00:25:39.980 I'm like,

00:25:40.900 I feel like,

00:25:42.440 look at the shirt,

00:25:43.300 look at the buns,

00:25:43.960 exactly.

00:25:45.020 But,

00:25:46.160 you didn't have to do that.

00:25:47.060 But anyway.

00:25:48.340 It was a big talking point before we started.

00:25:50.740 No,

00:25:51.220 I'm joking.

00:25:51.820 But anyway,

00:25:52.540 but I don't feel rich in New York.

00:25:54.760 I think if I lived in New York,

00:25:56.240 I would be like,

00:25:57.440 you know,

00:25:58.080 I look at rents.

00:25:59.120 Rents are dementedly high.

00:26:00.980 It's getting dire.

00:26:01.980 It's getting dire in New York City,

00:26:03.640 where like when someone asked me for a dollar,

00:26:05.360 I'm like,

00:26:05.680 I know this doesn't make any sense to you,

00:26:08.520 but like,

00:26:08.820 I need this dollar,

00:26:10.300 you know?

00:26:10.840 So,

00:26:11.600 yeah,

00:26:11.960 I guess what I was trying to get at with that,

00:26:14.160 that stereotype of a voter,

00:26:15.800 I think something that is confounding to people who maybe live in a city where rent is not $4,000 to $7,000 for a part in my French toll.

00:26:30.180 New York City is one of the only cities in the world where you can make $150,000 a year and you need to get two roommates and like eating or getting a burrito from Chipotle is like a big night out.

00:26:47.400 So it's become insane where to live within Manhattan.

00:26:54.240 And I mean,

00:26:54.820 I need to look for a new apartment soon.

00:26:56.740 So I'm,

00:26:57.140 I'm sharp on these numbers and it's really hard to find.

00:27:02.200 I would say you probably need to pay like five,

00:27:05.240 five,

00:27:06.080 $6,000 for a studio to live in any neighborhood that is considered like cool in New York City.

00:27:12.800 So it's become,

00:27:14.580 um,

00:27:15.660 the,

00:27:15.820 the,

00:27:16.060 the fastest group that is fleeing New York City are white collar workers,

00:27:23.900 people who are making two,

00:27:25.480 $300,000 a year.

00:27:27.300 I mean,

00:27:28.040 which is just insane because if you said to most people,

00:27:32.560 you're going to go to college,

00:27:33.820 you know,

00:27:34.340 you're going to come out,

00:27:34.980 you're going to get a job over a hundred grand a year.

00:27:37.180 You'd be like quids in I've done it,

00:27:38.940 you know,

00:27:39.640 high fives,

00:27:40.300 mom and dad,

00:27:40.760 we've all made it.

00:27:41.880 But the reality is you're kind of above the breadline in New York,

00:27:45.880 which is,

00:27:47.420 he's been very interesting about landlords.

00:27:49.920 Yeah.

00:27:50.180 And I think that's really resonating.

00:27:51.420 I think we should talk about that.

00:27:52.840 Yeah.

00:27:53.360 So I think that this is why the DSA is not just taking off in New York.

00:27:59.780 It's,

00:28:00.300 it's taking off in cities that also have a cost of living crisis,

00:28:04.580 where white collar workers of,

00:28:07.520 yeah,

00:28:07.800 you can pay your rent every month.

00:28:09.660 And okay,

00:28:10.700 maybe you're saving,

00:28:12.440 I don't know,

00:28:13.620 $75 one month.

00:28:15.400 The next month,

00:28:16.400 you're probably more in debt.

00:28:18.060 that is why it's resonating so much with these upwardly people who in a different era,

00:28:26.680 maybe only five,

00:28:28.120 10 years ago,

00:28:28.820 before COVID would have been considered upwardly mobile,

00:28:32.340 arrived in a city like New York and don't see,

00:28:37.120 certainly don't see a path towards homeownership.

00:28:39.580 Well,

00:28:40.060 right.

00:28:40.260 I mean,

00:28:40.440 think about just the numbers.

00:28:41.960 If you earn a hundred grand a year and you rent a studio for five or six grand a year,

00:28:47.760 you're spending,

00:28:48.500 you're spending 72 grand a year just on rent.

00:28:51.380 Right.

00:28:52.080 How,

00:28:52.600 well,

00:28:52.900 it's hard to live because you've got other expenses.

00:28:55.180 Forget about saving anything.

00:28:56.440 Right.

00:28:56.860 And then there's,

00:28:57.580 there's taxes.

00:28:58.280 And,

00:28:58.800 and so I think even if you have roommates,

00:29:04.260 whatever,

00:29:04.640 I think that,

00:29:06.020 so Zoran is a millennial.

00:29:09.640 And I think that who he's resonating most with are these people who are really struggling to kind of break into the hallmarks of adulthood,

00:29:21.100 like home,

00:29:22.480 home ownership,

00:29:23.820 marriage,

00:29:24.960 kids.

00:29:25.380 He's also of course,

00:29:27.200 very popular with Gen Z,

00:29:29.380 but it's these millennial activists within the DSA who have been really crucial in,

00:29:35.080 in getting him over the finish line and in their just immense canvassing door knocking operation.

00:29:43.820 And how,

00:29:44.640 what is he going to do to tackle this rental?

00:29:46.720 Let's call it what it is.

00:29:47.940 It's a rental crisis.

00:29:48.960 It's simple.

00:29:49.660 It's that simple in New York.

00:29:50.960 Right.

00:29:51.460 Right.

00:29:51.560 What is his actual policy?

00:29:52.660 So he is proposing a rent freeze for all rent stabilized units.

00:29:58.480 And in New York,

00:29:59.420 that's 44% of,

00:30:01.520 of all rental housing.

00:30:03.760 And the next question is,

00:30:05.720 well,

00:30:05.960 can he do that?

00:30:07.040 And it,

00:30:09.660 it's unclear.

00:30:10.680 It's unclear because basically how the city institutes rent freezes,

00:30:16.020 which have mayors in the past or other administrations have instituted,

00:30:20.840 it's through a board that the mayor can appoint if there's a vacancy,

00:30:27.420 but it's not a direct,

00:30:29.440 it's not a direct action.

00:30:31.300 If that makes sense,

00:30:32.760 he,

00:30:33.380 the board is responsible for instituting whether or not they institute a rent freeze or how much rent goes up by.

00:30:40.080 So that's really interesting.

00:30:42.140 So it's not completely in his power.

00:30:44.300 No.

00:30:44.600 Because we've talked to former guests about Mamdani and they've said,

00:30:48.140 look,

00:30:48.940 you know,

00:30:49.200 he can say he's going to implement all these policies,

00:30:51.740 but unless the governor of the state releases the funds,

00:30:55.500 then he's kind of tied,

00:30:57.440 isn't he?

00:30:57.940 Really?

00:30:58.640 Yeah.

00:30:59.040 Yeah.

00:30:59.260 So the other policy,

00:31:02.500 another policy he's proposed is a millionaire's tax.

00:31:07.400 There are question marks on a lot of his policies like the childcare or his massive department of community safety that would augment slash replace parts of the police department.

00:31:21.800 You know,

00:31:22.060 how is he going to pay for these things?

00:31:23.540 Well,

00:31:24.180 it might not surprise you that the answer in most instances is an increase in taxes.

00:31:31.740 And you're exactly right.

00:31:33.840 He needs,

00:31:34.680 he needs a collaboration from the state government.

00:31:39.160 He needs collaboration from the state legislature.

00:31:41.760 And then he would need the governor to sign off on that too.

00:31:44.980 And the governor is Kathy Hochul.

00:31:47.780 She's a Democrat,

00:31:48.760 but really more of an establishment Democrat that now is having to navigate this herself,

00:31:55.920 this,

00:31:56.220 this huge populist movement in New York city.

00:31:59.700 So she's up for reelection in 2026 and she's already endorsed Mom Donnie. 0.96

00:32:05.780 Mom Donnie has not endorsed her for her reelection campaign.

00:32:09.840 And,

00:32:10.460 uh,

00:32:10.900 she said she doesn't want to raise taxes.

00:32:13.600 And that's,

00:32:14.580 I mean,

00:32:14.880 that's a huge political liability for her going into 2026. 1.00

00:32:19.640 So long story short,

00:32:21.820 is that a lot of tricky politics.

00:32:24.700 It's very uncertain that he would be able to get that done.

00:32:28.540 Because that puts him in a very precarious position because effectively he might well be writing checks in order to quote Top Gun that his body can't cash.

00:32:36.040 Yeah.

00:32:37.120 Yeah.

00:32:37.580 No,

00:32:37.920 the critique certainly holds that his vision is unrealistic.

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00:34:09.980 Well, one of the things as well is,

00:34:16.120 for the reasons that we just discussed,

00:34:19.440 a millionaire in New York is not necessarily what people think of it as like the super wealthy.

00:34:25.200 I've been to New York.

00:34:26.320 There's a lot of people who are more super wealthy than that.

00:34:28.960 Let's put it that way.

00:34:29.600 But the thing is, those people are so incredibly mobile,

00:34:33.060 particularly within the United States,

00:34:35.320 that the risk is, I suppose,

00:34:37.700 that a lot of them will simply move somewhere else

00:34:39.700 and take their businesses and wealth generation with them.

00:34:43.160 Does he have an answer to that?

00:34:44.800 Or is he like, I'm glad they're leaving?

00:34:47.220 So he doesn't believe that that is going to happen.

00:34:51.060 He says that he really diminishes

00:34:53.240 the amount that the percentage increase in taxes

00:34:59.080 upon millionaires.

00:35:00.180 He's suggesting a 2% increase.

00:35:02.660 He's like, guys, they're not going to leave over 2%.

00:35:05.300 Well, I spoke to not millionaires, but actually billionaires,

00:35:12.320 people whose impact on local tax revenue is far, far more impressive.

00:35:19.220 And these people are already so close to packing up and moving to Florida,

00:35:25.700 moving to places like Texas.

00:35:27.240 And a lot of these guys,

00:35:30.440 they say that they're getting pressure from their employees,

00:35:34.060 their employees who those are the millionaires.

00:35:37.800 So 2%, I mean, I think it's also just a quality of life thing, too,

00:35:43.460 where the parks can be so scary and sketchy,

00:35:49.320 just basic quality of life issues regarding safetiness.

00:35:56.120 People, the incentives to stay in New York have already cracked.

00:36:02.560 And it's, and what it talks about, especially,

00:36:06.380 and the reason I find New York so fascinating,

00:36:08.860 this particular example,

00:36:09.940 is that you have got the most capitalist city in the world.

00:36:14.480 Yeah.

00:36:14.980 In the world.

00:36:15.900 Yeah.

00:36:16.360 The hub of business, finance, banking.

00:36:18.520 You think of finance and banking,

00:36:21.820 you think Wall Street.

00:36:22.900 Right.

00:36:23.560 And then you've got this guy?

00:36:25.380 Yeah.

00:36:25.760 And I think that, I mean, it's almost poetic.

00:36:32.580 Like, there's a huge irony there that you just pointed out.

00:36:37.060 And I think it's because income inequality is so severe in New York City.

00:36:42.460 It's so, it's so severe where, I mean, there's hardly a middle class there.

00:36:51.200 The, the average salary, now I'm like, maybe I should look this up,

00:36:55.460 but I guess I should say to raise a family within New York City.

00:37:00.600 So that includes residential Queens.

00:37:03.700 That includes the Bronx.

00:37:05.340 Anywhere in New York City, you need over $300,000 for a family of four.

00:37:11.460 And, and that's just like, to kind of break even.

00:37:14.940 Yeah.

00:37:15.280 You're not living in luxury.

00:37:16.560 Like a lot of people that listen to this, gone 300 grand.

00:37:18.880 That sounds like a lot.

00:37:19.720 But what you're saying is in New York now for a family of four,

00:37:23.140 you're just about going to get by.

00:37:25.260 Yeah.

00:37:25.760 Yeah.

00:37:26.240 So the middle class in New York is totally hollowed out.

00:37:31.500 You have a situation where the people who are just getting by

00:37:37.280 are white collar workers.

00:37:40.180 And then of course, there are the people who are actually just living in poverty.

00:37:46.540 So yeah, it's, it's very ironic that New York, the center of capitalism has become this,

00:37:54.300 this, the center of this fight.

00:37:57.260 But in some ways, I think that's helps explain why it's become the center of the fight.

00:38:02.300 You know, people like Bill Ackman, who's a billionaire, Dan Loeb, another billionaire who runs a hedge fund.

00:38:13.540 And they have become huge sources of ire for Mom Donnie supporters, where it, you know, a lot of DSA members,

00:38:24.860 they're really familiar with, there are all these names in New York City of just local wealthy families

00:38:30.740 that people really have it out for in New York City.

00:38:34.060 Well, this comes as no surprise when you think about the murder of Brian Thompson by Luigi Mangione.

00:38:39.440 Yeah.

00:38:39.800 Which itself was obviously awful and horrific.

00:38:43.220 But then the celebration that came afterwards and how Mangione was, was turned into a sex symbol by some people.

00:38:50.860 It was grotesque.

00:38:51.800 Yeah. And the, the DSA, this group that has really propelled Mom Donnie, I mean, they have had really radical reactions to all these instances

00:39:05.080 where after Joe Biden was, was diagnosed with cancer, you know, we, I have access to the DSA's internal message board and I read it all the time.

00:39:17.660 And basically anytime there's one of these events, you know, sometimes there are people who are outright celebratory,

00:39:26.260 but at the very least it's people who feel like it's complicated.

00:39:31.020 And, um, obviously that relates back to October 7th too, where Mom Donnie, Jewish New Yorkers are a part of his coalition. 0.62

00:39:41.900 Cuomo is polling better with Jewish voters, but only by a few percentage points.

00:39:48.200 And Mom Donnie has had a lot of Jewish supporters very visibly within his campaign.

00:39:55.300 But when you look at, well, who are these Jewish voters and what do they believe?

00:40:01.580 These are often really radical groups.

00:40:03.900 Like one that shows up to everything he does is Jews for racial and economic justice. 0.87

00:40:10.300 And after October 7th, they released a statement that said that Hamas's terrorist attack was unjustifiable, but not unprovoked.

00:40:21.320 So that kind of sounds like a justification, right?

00:40:24.420 And so there are these, there's this anti-Zionist bend that's really active within Mom Donnie's coalition.

00:40:33.400 But I think you've rightly picked up on this thread of kind of anger and sometimes justification for violence that is active on the far left.

00:40:44.640 And is, it's not, not a part of Mom Donnie's coalition too.

00:40:48.740 And do you think his success is something that will be replicated in other cities in America that will appeal to people beyond New York City where, you know, the housing issue is not as bad in most other places in the U.S., but it is very bad in some places in the U.S.

00:41:07.400 And do you think you're going to start to see things like him in California, perhaps, in D.C., maybe, in other places?

00:41:13.480 Yeah, I think the only uncertain dynamic is just, as we said, Zoran is so charismatic where you really, that's the unknown, is, will there be someone as charismatic in a city like Houston or San Francisco?

00:41:31.960 But you're already starting to see people run in his image.

00:41:36.220 So the DSA is highly organized.

00:41:39.060 They are mapping out school board races in the San Antonio suburbs or water referendums, you know, outside of Pittsburgh.

00:41:49.440 So they are already talking about the midterms, certainly, which are just around the corner, and then even 2028.

00:41:58.040 So the DSA, they have plans to run candidates in major races across the country.

00:42:06.740 And you're already seeing, you know, on Election Day, it's not just Zoran's big day, but there are similar candidates in cities like Minneapolis.

00:42:18.600 Arguably, the mayor of Boston is already kind of in this vein.

00:42:22.700 So, yeah, there are already, his impact is already felt.

00:42:27.160 You know, it's, look, I don't agree, but it's a smart play.

00:42:32.380 It's a smart play, because when I looked at the Democrats, when they embraced identity politics, and then the Labour Party in our country, I was like, this ain't going to fly.

00:42:41.560 This ain't going to fly with white working class people. 0.78

00:42:45.040 It ain't going to fly with people who are more naturally conservative.

00:42:49.540 It ain't going to work.

00:42:51.100 There is, it just isn't.

00:42:52.720 It's not going to appeal to enough people.

00:42:54.180 I look at this, and you talk about the inequality and the gap between rich and poor, and it's growing all the time.

00:43:01.240 And then you're talking about cost of living crisis, inflation, housing crisis, all of this.

00:43:06.900 And you go, for the left, these are very, very rich pickings.

00:43:11.660 Oh, oh, absolutely.

00:43:13.920 And I think that in America, there's so much to gain for whomever deploys economic populism without the identity politics.

00:43:26.380 And Zoran, I think, has had so much success, because for the most part, he really has avoided the identity politics.

00:43:33.400 He, when he talks about his plan for community safety, he's not really talking about an epidemic of black and brown men being shot, you know, language that we heard in 2020.

00:43:46.600 He is trying to do a new brand of kind of post-BLM politics. 0.90

00:43:55.240 But there are still these hints of identity politics, you know, on the debate stage.

00:44:02.600 It came out, his plans to support trans New Yorkers.

00:44:07.380 Immigration is obviously going to continue to be a huge thing, and there could be a potential clash with ICE.

00:44:14.940 And so, yeah, it's unclear to me if he's really moved on from this.

00:44:20.940 How he handles public safety and police will continue to be a big test.

00:44:25.580 But I think you're right.

00:44:26.760 The economic issue of it is huge.

00:44:30.740 There's a huge potential upside there.

00:44:32.960 And it's, look, and there are people on the right, and hopefully there are people in the Republican Party who are watching this as well.

00:44:40.360 Look, you need to be addressing this.

00:44:42.920 Absolutely.

00:44:43.620 You need to be talking about this, because this isn't an issue that has been, you know, created artificially in the corridors of Columbia University.

00:44:52.160 Right.

00:44:52.520 This is something that affects practically every single person in this country.

00:44:56.320 And it's a matter of urgency.

00:44:58.060 Yeah, I've heard this talking point often from conservative commentators that, you know, oh, we hope Zoran is mayor.

00:45:07.960 We hope he's mayor because he's going to make our job easy, because we're going to run on him in 2026 during the midterms.

00:45:15.000 He's going to make our job easy for the presidential race in 2028.

00:45:18.740 I think that's totally misguided.

00:45:20.760 I mean, it could be true if he gets in and then is just completely delinquent as a mayor and just lets the city fall into disrepair.

00:45:29.740 But he is a really serious person.

00:45:33.720 And at least if he manages to please his constituents in New York, I mean, I just think that's totally, totally misguided.

00:45:42.900 It's also how people in 2016 responded to Trump, though.

00:45:46.860 You know, they said, like, yeah, we hope that he's the nominee because or that's why they thought they had it in the bag in 2016.

00:45:56.620 That's why they thought Hillary was was so her win was so certain. 1.00

00:46:00.440 And they obviously came to regret that.

00:46:03.460 And there's just so much overlap in the way that people discount Zoran and the way that they discounted Trump.

00:46:09.200 There's this there's always discussion about the donors, you know, like, oh, well, the donors are never going to get behind Zoran.

00:46:18.920 Well, he hasn't needed them.

00:46:21.180 You know, it really in many ways has been a grassroots campaign.

00:46:25.200 Of course, now he has many super PACs behind him.

00:46:28.480 And increasingly, he does have institutional force behind him.

00:46:32.680 But, yeah, he he it's a populist movement.

00:46:38.460 And so, of course, the establishment doesn't take it seriously and is and is discounting it.

00:46:44.100 But I think to me what this represents, it's not just about the meteoric rise of Zoran Mamdani.

00:46:51.360 I think it's also a story about the death of the establishment, too.

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00:48:22.240 The interesting thing, I think your analysis and comparison with Trump is very apt,

00:48:27.800 given the way that some people are responding.

00:48:29.340 The difference, I think, is, and correct me if I'm wrong, take AOC, for example.

00:48:36.900 Great campaigner, very charismatic, gets elected, but she's not in an executive position. 1.00

00:48:44.140 Mamdani, as mayor, is running one of the biggest cities in the world,

00:48:49.460 and his success or failure will affect the brand quite significantly.

00:48:54.580 So the challenge for someone who is promising people a lot of free stuff

00:49:00.720 is you have to actually then deliver the free stuff.

00:49:05.040 And one aspect of this that's worth probably delving into as well is

00:49:09.580 how much experience does he have running things?

00:49:13.060 Well, just to get that out of the way, not very much.

00:49:18.120 For a time, a lot of his resume was propped up by his parents.

00:49:22.620 After college, he actually had a brief wrapping career that was quite successful.

00:49:29.440 I don't know if you guys knew about this.

00:49:31.500 So, yeah, in terms of managing experience, it's not...

00:49:35.620 What's the biggest thing he's run?

00:49:37.080 I don't think he has run anything.

00:49:40.220 He hasn't run anything.

00:49:41.260 So this is where I think the difficulty comes in,

00:49:44.380 because Trump demonstrably knows how to run big organizations.

00:49:49.440 Right.

00:49:49.700 He has done his entire life.

00:49:51.220 With Mamdani, he clearly is very talented at campaigning,

00:49:56.240 but he's not going into a Bernie Sanders, AOC kind of role.

00:50:00.400 He's going in to run a major city,

00:50:03.620 and that requires a skill set that we don't really know if he has.

00:50:09.280 Right.

00:50:09.600 Right?

00:50:10.200 Yeah.

00:50:11.000 You seem keen to correct me, so please do.

00:50:13.160 Well, I guess because his credentials, he doesn't have typical credentials, but he was a really successful organizer.

00:50:24.160 He helped campaigns in the past and was meticulous about this is the exact block that we need to target.

00:50:33.020 And so he has been a really successful leader in the progressive movement.

00:50:38.620 I'm not trying to disparage him a little bit.

00:50:40.120 No, I know.

00:50:40.600 I'm making a very different point, which is leading a campaign does not really require a huge amount of dealing with the reality of trade-offs.

00:50:50.540 Totally.

00:50:50.580 So, for example, increasing taxes is a thing that comes with a bunch of first, second, third order consequences.

00:50:59.260 And what I'm saying is I understand where some of those conservative commentators you mentioned are coming from

00:51:05.840 because their thinking is, this guy's going to get elected.

00:51:09.560 I'm going to condense it into he doesn't know what he's doing.

00:51:12.940 Yeah.

00:51:13.340 He's going to ruin everything.

00:51:14.980 Yeah.

00:51:15.160 That's going to be great for us as conservatives.

00:51:17.680 Right.

00:51:17.980 Right?

00:51:18.980 Do you think that's likely?

00:51:22.080 I don't.

00:51:24.200 I think that unless his administration, if he were to win, is just a total flop, I just think so much of his success is based on vision.

00:51:35.320 And I think that even if he fails to accomplish his agenda, I think that his supporters are going to blame that on the establishment.

00:51:46.980 I think they're just going to frame it in terms of, I don't know how much of the blame he'll get, I guess, if he does end up failing.

00:51:55.260 But I guess I would also say that I just think that this is the future of the Democratic Party, regardless of what happens with Zoran Mamdani.

00:52:06.620 I say that because in San Francisco, there was that progressive DA, Chesa Boudin, who he was ousted.

00:52:16.220 These ideas, not all of them have died and they just keep bubbling up and bubbling up.

00:52:22.660 But the social justice element, I feel like that chapter has closed.

00:52:27.300 But what hasn't is really what Bernie kicked off like in 2016.

00:52:31.940 That hasn't gone anywhere.

00:52:34.000 Like we had this moderate.

00:52:37.280 I mean, I'm not quite sure how to characterize Joe Biden.

00:52:40.660 But, you know, there was the Biden presidency, which was not like a DSA vibe at all.

00:52:47.280 And yet this, as income inequality just continues to grow and grow and grow, this isn't going anywhere.

00:52:54.700 So, yeah, I don't know that Zoran Mamdani is the future of the Democratic Party.

00:52:59.520 But whoever is, is going to have the same populist energy.

00:53:05.500 And let's talk about the Democratic Socialists of America.

00:53:08.760 Yeah.

00:53:08.880 What is the difference between a Democratic Socialist and a Communist?

00:53:16.540 Whoa.

00:53:17.860 I guess because a Democratic Socialist is slightly less revolutionary in the sense that they believe in making change within a Democratic system.

00:53:31.520 They believe in getting elected.

00:53:32.740 Yeah, exactly.

00:53:33.860 Right.

00:53:34.180 Exactly.

00:53:34.900 Anything else?

00:53:35.600 I think that they, in some instances, they're more comfortable with private ownership.

00:53:44.380 They believe in some measure of private property.

00:53:50.000 As I'm thinking about it now, it's, no, they do want to dismantle capitalism.

00:53:57.900 So what does that mean?

00:53:59.120 What does it mean to dismantle?

00:53:59.940 I would love to ask the DSA that.

00:54:02.480 When you read their platform, it talks a lot about tearing down systems.

00:54:08.220 It's not quite clear to me what they would replace it with.

00:54:12.620 Well, this is what I was getting at when I was talking about Mamdani specifically, is it is one thing to organize a very effective campaign.

00:54:23.500 Right.

00:54:23.700 Which is about defunding, dismantling, giving things, right?

00:54:29.840 But then all of that stuff has another dimension to it, which is once you've dismantled things, you have to build things.

00:54:36.180 Once you've given free stuff to people, you have to find the money somewhere for that thing to be given to people.

00:54:42.640 And you can do that in the short term and do the magic tricks, but over time, you get to a position where it just becomes unsustainable.

00:54:51.200 Yeah.

00:54:51.700 So that's kind of what I'm getting at.

00:54:53.480 No, it's fair.

00:54:54.880 I think if you go back to 2016, maybe the similarities continue where Trump, it was so much vision and not a lot of practicality.

00:55:07.540 And his first administration, I mean, the scandals just couldn't stop coming.

00:55:12.740 It was very disorganized.

00:55:13.880 I think he regrets a lot of the appointments he made.

00:55:18.300 And then the second administration, he really came in and now is accomplishing his agenda.

00:55:25.760 But the vision and the spirit of what he represents didn't go anywhere.

00:55:33.720 So I'm just not convinced.

00:55:35.820 Yeah, I think that there, of course, all signs point to Zoran struggling to accomplish his agenda.

00:55:43.680 But I just think that until income inequality is addressed, I think that the appetite for someone like him only grows as well.

00:55:54.000 It's populism all the way down.

00:55:55.420 Yeah.

00:55:56.160 Yeah.

00:55:56.940 Which is why the policies, the policies don't really matter, I think.

00:56:02.920 Ultimately, I really think it's vibes, the two vibes of class grievance masked with positivity.

00:56:13.100 I think that that is why people are supporting Zoran, because they're very angry about income inequality.

00:56:19.920 And he's almost giving people permission to, it's like as if MAGA wasn't associated with bigotry and tearing people down.

00:56:30.900 That's how people on the left think of MAGA, at least.

00:56:33.720 It's as if he's giving people permission to just be completely angry about income inequality.

00:56:40.880 But they're not bullies, like the way that MAGA is portrayed.

00:56:48.260 It's really a progressive anger.

00:56:51.940 Yeah, it's a righteous anger.

00:56:53.760 Righteous.

00:56:54.220 Yeah, that's a great word for it.

00:56:55.700 Yeah.

00:56:56.080 It's probably how they would frame it.

00:56:57.720 And I think it's important to say this as well.

00:57:00.240 I was in Venezuela in 99 when Chavez came to power.

00:57:03.500 And Chavez won a general election in Venezuela by a landslide, and it was legitimate.

00:57:08.240 Now, he then went on and was absolutely awful and fixed elections and whatever else.

00:57:13.440 But the reason people vote for the Mamdani's of this world is because they feel that they've been failed by the establishment. 0.99

00:57:22.080 And in many cases that they have, and they have no other option but to go for a radical.

00:57:26.340 I think we need to be honest about this.

00:57:28.340 I think so, too.

00:57:30.560 And like I said, I'm not really convinced that Zoran is the future of the Democratic Party.

00:57:38.300 I think in some ways it's because I don't know if his ambition, I don't really think he's someone that would enjoy being president.

00:57:45.680 But whoever is, whether it's AOC, I mean, Bernie, he's getting up there.

00:57:52.100 But I really think that we're on this clash of the establishment against populism.

00:57:58.940 Again, it's literally 2016 all over again, except I think we're finally hitting the tipping point where the populists have more power.

00:58:08.280 Where you're seeing people like Kathy Hochul, the governor of New York, where she is endorsing Zoran because she needs Zoran's support.

00:58:18.240 She has more to gain from endorsing Zoran than Zoran has to gain.

00:58:23.020 And look, one of the things that populism does, and it's very good at, and Nigel Farage in our own country is a maestro of, is pushing issues that were once seen as fringed by the establishment and making them mainstream and making the establishment tackle them.

00:58:38.840 So in a way, if Zoran pushes the idea of wealth inequality and actually makes the left, right, and center have discussions and start to implement policies to tackle it.

00:58:55.100 Yeah, yeah.

00:58:56.420 I mean, you've already seen this since 2016, where now even the Republicans have come to accept a lot of these things that were seen as only being elements of the Democratic Party, like support for Medicare and Medicaid and elements of the social safety net, like Social Security.

00:59:17.120 Now, even Republicans know that to campaign against those things is really a death sentence.

00:59:23.060 So I think that this populist bent is taking over both parties, and the yardstick has really been moved in a lot of ways.

00:59:35.040 I mean, look at the issue of Israel and Palestine.

00:59:38.540 That has already shifted drastically.

00:59:43.100 So it's hard to tell who's driving the ship.

00:59:45.980 Is it people like Zoran who are moving the yardstick, or does he just reflect it?

00:59:50.160 I don't know, but so much has changed in terms of what would actually be, what would be a liability for a politician now, arguably, is a strength.

01:00:03.380 Like these, I feel like it's based on my reporting, based on reading all of his tweets, I think it's fair to characterize his politics as anti-Israel.

01:00:15.080 He's really struggled to answer whether or not he believes that Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state.

01:00:21.880 Actually, he has implied, no, that he has a problem with Israel, just like he has a problem with Saudi Arabia.

01:00:31.000 But this would have been a huge problem for any politician only a few years ago.

01:00:40.480 And now this is actually an asset.

01:00:43.940 You know, Cuomo, when leading up to the primary, there were so many things that he thought were going to help him.

01:00:52.600 Like all these attack ads being, you know, calling Zoran a socialist or saying he's an anti-Semite.

01:01:01.540 You know, that's what a lot of Cuomo supporters did to try and attack Mom Donnie. 0.96

01:01:06.900 And people who saw the attack ads, I just, I think if anything, it informed them about Zoran and then they became Zoran voters.

01:01:17.700 Yeah.

01:01:17.820 The interesting thing about that is socialism, because we're here in Texas.

01:01:27.680 Yeah.

01:01:28.360 We got in an Uber and we met a guy who was driving, who was Spanish.

01:01:32.340 And we asked him, you know, why did he come to America?

01:01:35.140 And you'd never hear this in Europe because people don't talk like this.

01:01:38.600 But he was like, I don't know, man, just socialism isn't for me.

01:01:42.180 Right.

01:01:42.680 And this is, in many ways, the American, historically speaking, at least the American attitude or at least the prevailing attitude towards socialism.

01:01:51.740 But I don't, I think the current Democratic Party has moved in a very different direction, hasn't it?

01:01:56.600 Yeah, there was polling I saw recently from Gallup, only a few months ago, it was done in August, where more Democrats actually have a favorable view of socialism than capitalism.

01:02:12.440 So the number that have a favorable view of capitalism, it's something like 42, 46 percent.

01:02:19.860 And then the percentage that have a favorable view of socialism is 66 percent.

01:02:26.600 And what do you think they mean by socialism?

01:02:29.620 Like, what is it that they support?

01:02:31.260 What is it that they like?

01:02:33.040 With the definitions, yeah, precision is important here.

01:02:36.180 What is it that they like?

01:02:38.200 Well, because, see, if you're from Eastern Europe, when you think of socialism, you think of the Soviet Union.

01:02:43.720 Right.

01:02:44.180 Right.

01:02:44.640 Right.

01:02:45.000 Because it was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republic.

01:02:48.140 Yeah.

01:02:48.560 I don't think American Democrats won the Soviet Union.

01:02:52.240 Right.

01:02:52.400 So what is it that they believe?

01:02:53.560 Well, I guess because socialism has never been executed here, it's really just a vision of a utopia, you know?

01:03:05.080 We don't have the memory, the recent memory of socialism and the failures of it.

01:03:14.200 And so I think when most Americans picture socialism, they're like, I'm going to get to see my same doctor and it's going to be free.

01:03:24.560 Or I'm going to be able to afford a modest house, but the house that I want.

01:03:34.120 But I think they assume that, I guess what I'm describing is really a utopia.

01:03:41.760 Well, I mean, having a house and seeing a doctor doesn't seem that utopian to me.

01:03:47.200 Right, right, right. 0.95

01:03:48.100 So I'm not trying to be a dick. 0.98

01:03:49.240 No, you're right. 0.96

01:03:49.880 You're right.

01:03:50.260 I guess they picture America, but like a fulfillment of the American promise.

01:03:55.320 And free buses and the other, you know, free childcare and all these other things.

01:04:03.100 I think they probably just picture like a more functional economy.

01:04:07.700 Like the way that the American dream is supposed to work, where you, the days when you could be a blue collar worker and you actually could support, you could have two, three kids.

01:04:21.860 You could take an annual vacation.

01:04:24.060 You owned your home.

01:04:25.240 I think that.

01:04:26.000 Your wife could be a homemaker, et cetera, right? 1.00

01:04:28.500 Yeah.

01:04:28.860 I think that that is what the draw.

01:04:30.600 It's not so much maybe a draw towards socialism, but just a sense that capitalism is not working.

01:04:40.580 And so it's people in search of an answer.

01:04:43.480 So, yeah, I think you're right.

01:04:44.760 I'm not convinced that I think Americans, I mean, Americans, I feel like do love to work.

01:04:51.860 I think most would prefer to work if that work could afford them the American dream.

01:04:59.740 So I think that that's more what that data reveals.

01:05:02.740 I don't think it's like people are so lazy, they just want free things.

01:05:07.540 I think that maybe that's where it's gotten because there is so much anger.

01:05:11.160 But, yeah, it's funny.

01:05:12.900 I think you're right that they just want an economy that works.

01:05:19.560 Before Olivia answers the final question at the end of the interview, make sure to head 0.81

01:05:25.420 over to our sub stack.

01:05:26.580 The link is in the description where you'll be able to see this.

01:05:30.240 Do you think it's likely that there will be a significant relocation of particularly

01:05:35.060 financial industry elsewhere?

01:05:37.020 And if so, where are they likely to go?

01:05:38.980 Do you think that the mayoral polls and the probable result in the NYC are a backlash

01:05:43.120 response to the presidential elections?

01:05:47.300 A big city is moving ideology in a different direction than the rest of the country.

01:05:52.000 Or is it in sync?

01:05:53.380 What do you make of the CBS Free Press merger?

01:05:55.600 Oh! 0.60

01:05:59.000 Olivia, great having you on.

01:06:00.460 Thank you for coming.

01:06:01.320 We're going to ask you questions from our supporters in a second.

01:06:04.200 But before we do, what's the one thing we're not talking about that we shouldn't be?

01:06:07.240 Oh, my gosh.

01:06:08.580 Don't say the shirt.

01:06:11.200 What is the one thing?

01:06:12.800 Oh, my gosh.

01:06:13.400 I don't.

01:06:13.920 Okay.

01:06:14.180 Am I allowed to think for a second?

01:06:15.680 Okay.

01:06:16.200 Thank you.

01:06:16.540 You're allowed to think, Olivia.

01:06:18.180 We're not under socialism yet.

01:06:20.240 Okay.

01:06:20.660 I'm going to go.

01:06:21.360 It's a little wonky, but ranked choice voting.

01:06:24.800 Arguably, that is the system of voting in which you rank candidates in order of preference.

01:06:29.920 That's how we got Zoron.

01:06:31.760 So initially, this was a system that New York instituted.

01:06:36.680 New Yorkers actually voted.

01:06:38.300 Uh, to vote that way in primaries.

01:06:41.800 Sorry, now it's getting so nerdy because it's primaries, not the general election.

01:06:46.100 But the idea with that, it was this progressive idea that it's actually going to help elevate

01:06:51.060 moderate voices.

01:06:52.760 And yet, we ended up with Zoron Mamdani.

01:06:56.280 And so New York is not the only place that has ranked choice voting.

01:07:01.560 Burlington, Vermont has ranked choice voting.

01:07:03.880 And you're probably going to see a lot of people advocate for it after they saw that,

01:07:09.620 you know, it was able to elevate Zoron.

01:07:12.920 All right.

01:07:13.540 Thank you so much for coming on.

01:07:15.180 Head on over to triggerpod.co.uk where we continue the conversation with your questions.

01:07:19.740 Are Jews in New York taking precautionary steps to begin hiding their identity as they do 1.00

01:07:25.960 in Paris and London ahead of Mamdani's expected win?

01:07:28.820 We'll see you next time.

TRIGGERnometry - November 02, 2025

The Next Mayor of New York？ - Olivia Reingold

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