TRIGGERnometry - October 02, 2024


The Rise of WEAK Politicians - James Whale


Episode Stats


Length

52 minutes

Words per minute

175.65158

Word count

9,260

Sentence count

779

Harmful content

Misogyny

17

sentences flagged

Toxicity

42

sentences flagged

Hate speech

14

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

James Copley has been a broadcaster for over 40 years and has seen a lot in the UK over that time. He's seen the country change over the years, from the rise and fall of the Thatcher years to the rise of the Labour Party and the current political class. He talks about the current state of the country and what he would like to see in the future.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.880 I mean, politicians at the moment, there's some really good ones, but not many, and they're all a bit weak.
00:00:06.500 I even spent a night with Margaret Thatcher at Stringfellow's Club.
00:00:10.640 That's probably a story for another time.
00:00:12.680 I'm not sure it is.
00:00:13.420 I'm not sure it is. You can't dangle that one.
00:00:16.320 And that's something I'm not going to forget.
00:00:17.920 We have Margaret Thatcher in the strip club. Yeah, I imagine you win. 1.00
00:00:22.580 Back when in the times of Bernard Manning, and the reason I bring him up is you kind of remind me of his personality.
00:00:29.180 You know, but probably not.
00:00:32.140 Mate, are you optimistic about the path that this country is on?
00:00:37.520 Well, if they get it sorted out, yeah, but if they carry on the way that they are at the moment, no.
00:00:44.160 So, James, you are a legend of broadcasting. Yeah, you are, mate.
00:00:48.380 You've been broadcasting for X amount of years.
00:00:52.960 You can tell he's British, by the way.
00:00:54.280 Yeah, exactly. I'm trying to...
00:00:56.320 No, you can tell he's British, because in America, if you said you're a legend of broadcasting,
00:01:00.120 the guy would be sitting there, like, soaking it in.
00:01:02.420 Really?
00:01:02.840 Oh, absolutely. Of course I am. Yeah, I'm a legend of broadcasting.
00:01:05.220 It means I'm very old, and at the end of my time, and I can look back.
00:01:10.500 Well...
00:01:10.780 But, yeah, okay.
00:01:12.560 Well, there goes that compliment.
00:01:13.660 Strong start, there goes that compliment.
00:01:16.340 But it must be very interesting, because you have seen Britain from when you started broadcasting
00:01:21.880 to where we are now.
00:01:23.260 Yeah.
00:01:24.160 What are the changes that have happened?
00:01:26.700 And not only that, what are the trends that you've seen in your time?
00:01:32.060 Well, what a good question to start with.
00:01:33.780 That's, yeah. I've seen a lot, and it does go and comes back.
00:01:38.960 You know, in the 70s, we had race problems.
00:01:43.320 In the 80s, we had work problems.
00:01:46.240 In the 90s, we had...
00:01:47.380 You know, then we had the COVID problems, and now we've got the riots.
00:01:52.580 The 90s were pretty decent, though, weren't they?
00:01:54.300 The 90s weren't bad, actually.
00:01:55.880 The 90s were quite chilled and laid back,
00:01:58.460 which, for doing the sort of shows that you guys do and I do, isn't very good.
00:02:04.280 You need to wind it up a bit.
00:02:06.060 So it didn't work.
00:02:08.540 But I think the problems are that we've reached a stage
00:02:14.780 where a lot of people are being exceptionally nice.
00:02:18.020 You know, the so-called Wokies are being very nice to each other,
00:02:21.320 must always use the right gender and all that bollocks. 1.00
00:02:25.360 Oh, sorry, can I...
00:02:26.300 Yeah, bollocks away.
00:02:27.520 OK, but the majority of people aren't like that.
00:02:31.960 And so you now get this sort of level of people in politics
00:02:36.020 and management and stuff who are trying to be so diverse
00:02:39.040 and so popular and everything else,
00:02:41.120 and it leaves a lot of people pretty cold,
00:02:43.600 and they don't seem to realise that.
00:02:45.560 So that's why I think we've got a lot of tension at the moment.
00:02:48.560 Because it's a good point, which what you're talking about
00:02:51.860 is that disconnect between, for want of a better term,
00:02:54.600 the political elite and ordinary people.
00:02:57.540 Wasn't it always just like that?
00:02:59.240 Because let's think, let's be honest, people, you know,
00:03:03.280 it's very rare that you get working class people
00:03:05.940 ascend to the top of politics.
00:03:07.860 Social media has changed everything.
00:03:09.720 And so that now people, all of us, I don't understand the class system really,
00:03:16.280 because people sort of would call me middle class, a bit like you.
00:03:20.400 Yeah.
00:03:20.860 Born in a similar place.
00:03:22.040 But I don't consider, I went to a really bad school and, you know,
00:03:28.340 left without any qualifications because they didn't really do that stuff there.
00:03:32.900 Just wanted to keep you quiet until you left.
00:03:34.860 And it wasn't until later that I realised that you can actually achieve whatever you really
00:03:42.260 set your heart on, if you try, if you want to do it.
00:03:44.520 And I think we have got to a situation now where everybody can see into the lives of anyone
00:03:51.440 they want on social media.
00:03:52.900 And therefore people think, well, I want that.
00:03:55.940 And quite often a lot of people want stuff without having to work for it.
00:04:00.780 You know, you don't see many people of whatever they're earning
00:04:05.060 without the trendiest clothes they can find.
00:04:10.400 Sorry, I'm just in a ordinary show.
00:04:13.120 Well, you know, it's interesting you say that because that's actually so true. 0.73
00:04:17.360 And I've done that in certain situations where I've wanted something I've seen.
00:04:22.660 But then when I've actually attempted to get it, I've suddenly realised,
00:04:26.180 oh, this is actually like a lot of work to do.
00:04:28.340 Yeah.
00:04:28.560 And I don't want to do the work that it takes to get this.
00:04:31.140 And somebody said this to, I think it was to Francis,
00:04:33.980 another comedian that we used to know from the circuit.
00:04:36.580 He was like, oh, I'd love to do what you do.
00:04:39.040 And Francis was like, no, you wouldn't.
00:04:41.400 No, you wouldn't.
00:04:42.440 You know.
00:04:43.240 He doesn't want any competition.
00:04:44.660 Well, apart from that, but, you know, it took us a long time,
00:04:49.560 we were talking before we started, to get to where we got to.
00:04:53.140 So you think because we now have a window into the lives of almost everybody,
00:04:57.100 everybody's kind of in the position where they can aspire to things
00:05:01.140 without actually necessarily being cognizant of what it takes to get there.
00:05:04.500 So you see a politician or a celebrity or whatever,
00:05:09.180 and you can see their lives are, well, I can do that.
00:05:12.220 I could be that.
00:05:13.180 Why shouldn't I have a go?
00:05:14.160 And that's the thing.
00:05:15.620 If everybody knew that, then more people would be doing it.
00:05:19.160 More people would be trying to do it.
00:05:20.660 We seem to still have this rather, I don't know.
00:05:24.640 I mean, politicians at the moment, there's some really good ones,
00:05:27.000 but not many.
00:05:28.600 They're all a bit weak.
00:05:30.580 And I think that's why we are where we are.
00:05:32.900 I mean, I had the pleasure of meeting Margaret Teague a few times,
00:05:39.860 and I even spent a night with Margaret Thatcher at Stringfellows Club.
00:05:45.320 That's probably a story for another time.
00:05:47.540 I'm not sure it is.
00:05:48.160 I'm not sure it is.
00:05:49.120 You can't dangle that one and then not.
00:05:51.580 Well, but you know Stringfellows.
00:05:53.620 You've heard of it, obviously.
00:05:55.220 Yeah, I thought so.
00:05:57.760 So anyway, Peter rang me one night and said,
00:06:02.800 we're having a do at Stringfellows.
00:06:05.960 It's not like it normally is.
00:06:07.640 I wondered if you'd come down and look after a table,
00:06:10.900 a lady called Maggie. 0.98
00:06:13.060 I said, Maggie who?
00:06:14.680 He said, well, who do you think?
00:06:16.120 So I said, well, yeah, okay.
00:06:18.280 What's she doing at Stringfellows? 0.98
00:06:20.120 He said, we're going to have a – because he was quite,
00:06:22.620 quite a conservative supporter who was having a fundraising evening.
00:06:27.480 And so Margaret was the host of the evening.
00:06:31.720 And I arrived and we got chatting.
00:06:36.140 A little old lady sitting next to her that I realised was her PA said, 0.96
00:06:40.500 oh, and who are you, dear?
00:06:42.240 And Margaret chipped in and said to me, oh, this is James.
00:06:46.060 He's a rude man on the radio.
00:06:47.420 He's very funny and a good friend of my daughter's,
00:06:51.120 which at the time I was.
00:06:52.800 You know, she appeared on – she was quite high profile at the time.
00:06:56.740 But it was the funniest thing I've ever seen.
00:06:58.680 She was such a natural, ordinary person.
00:07:02.800 And Peter came home and said, everything okay?
00:07:04.820 She said, oh, yes, dear.
00:07:05.940 And he said, are you ready to sort of work the clubs,
00:07:09.680 get a few donations?
00:07:10.860 And she said, just point me in the right direction.
00:07:13.760 And off she went.
00:07:15.460 Wow.
00:07:16.020 And, you know, you remember certain things in your life
00:07:19.540 and that's something I'm not going to forget.
00:07:21.140 Well, yeah, Margaret Thatcher in the Strip Club. 0.95
00:07:22.760 Yeah, I imagine you wouldn't.
00:07:23.700 That's not the most forgettable experience.
00:07:28.600 Just before you try saying anything, she didn't.
00:07:31.960 Thank God.
00:07:33.280 She left the polls alone.
00:07:35.160 Yeah, it sounds like Jeremy Corbyn's worst nightmare, mate.
00:07:37.760 Oh, God.
00:07:38.640 Well, if he's watching, Jeremy, if you want to go to Stringfellows,
00:07:42.460 just give me a nod.
00:07:44.780 There we go.
00:07:46.040 I mean, we talk about Margaret Thatcher.
00:07:48.080 And, look, Constance and I talk about this all the time.
00:07:50.420 We talk about the calibre of politicians.
00:07:53.200 Maybe it's the fact that we're into our 40s now.
00:07:57.080 No, I thought you were in your 20s.
00:07:59.320 Thank you.
00:07:59.860 Great.
00:08:00.440 Welcome back any time you want.
00:08:03.000 And I'm thinking, is it because I'm getting older
00:08:05.960 that I eulogise these figures from my youth and my childhood?
00:08:10.640 Or was the calibre of politicians better back then?
00:08:13.760 I think it has got to do with time changes, your opinion on what happened before.
00:08:21.340 But I do think politicians felt that they were in charge in those days.
00:08:28.180 Politicians that we vote in to be in charge now want to be your best mate. 0.91
00:08:33.100 Yeah.
00:08:33.620 Don't want to offend you.
00:08:34.660 Really don't want to sort of do anything that might suddenly,
00:08:38.440 if I called you specky four, I'd get, you know, 1.00
00:08:41.640 and in an interview that would be considered appalling.
00:08:45.180 Well, absolutely appalling.
00:08:47.040 And you wouldn't see anything like that in the mainstream media, would you?
00:08:50.960 No.
00:08:51.260 Everybody wants to be.
00:08:52.400 Now, this is interesting.
00:08:53.320 Everybody wants to be nice and pleasant.
00:08:55.500 And we've got the worst crime rates,
00:08:57.580 the worst knife crime rates going for years.
00:09:01.560 Even in the time of the Mods and Rockers, I don't remember the Teddy Boys,
00:09:05.720 but the Mods and Rockers, they were fighting on the beaches
00:09:08.500 with flick knives and everything else.
00:09:10.480 And it didn't seem anywhere near as violent as it is now.
00:09:14.840 And you're talking, the Teddy Boys were the 50s 0.55
00:09:17.340 and Mods and Rockers were obviously the 1960s.
00:09:20.260 And that's where...
00:09:21.220 Sorry, that's history, isn't it?
00:09:22.480 Yeah.
00:09:23.280 Yeah.
00:09:23.840 I mean, so there's a period of time that actually interests me a great deal.
00:09:27.260 But it's interesting now because it is that contrast
00:09:32.560 where everybody's like, no, we can't say this
00:09:36.320 because it mustn't offend people.
00:09:38.480 And on the other hand, you're looking at what's happening
00:09:41.220 to this country at this very moment.
00:09:43.160 Yeah.
00:09:43.420 I mean, we're descending into chaos, aren't we, really?
00:09:46.180 You're both comedians, were, was, are.
00:09:50.500 What do you think of comedy from back then?
00:09:53.640 From back when?
00:09:54.580 Back when in the times of Bernard Manning and, I don't know,
00:09:59.660 lots of top comedians, he's the only name I can think of
00:10:02.860 at the moment, but lots of comedians on TV.
00:10:06.400 Bernard got thrown off quite early on because he was,
00:10:08.600 I knew Bernard quite well and you would have got on with him very well.
00:10:12.320 One of the fun, the reason I bring him up is you kind of,
00:10:15.260 you kind of remind me of his personality.
00:10:18.060 Do you know?
00:10:19.020 Probably not what you're saying.
00:10:21.560 The reason we're laughing is Bernard Manning in the modern comedy industry
00:10:26.300 is a bit of a hate figure.
00:10:27.760 Yeah.
00:10:28.200 He's sort of in the wokey, and he's seen as a massive racist.
00:10:33.180 So the entire comedy industry, which hates us anyway,
00:10:36.280 is now watching this going, we told you, Francis is Bernard Manning.
00:10:41.520 And in fact, Francis, he's been on TV a lot since,
00:10:45.020 but the first major appearance he ever had on a TV show was a BBC documentary
00:10:49.460 they did about a fence and comedy.
00:10:52.160 And we sat down for like a good hour with the woman who was doing it. 0.77
00:10:57.380 And the only clip of Francis they used was him defending Bernard Manning.
00:11:01.460 Good man.
00:11:02.540 Good man.
00:11:03.840 Can I tell you?
00:11:04.640 This was a great moment in the history.
00:11:06.880 Can I tell you why?
00:11:08.020 Let me tell you a little bit about Bernard.
00:11:09.660 Yeah.
00:11:10.680 In the year 2000, I originally contracted cancer.
00:11:16.860 And luckily, I went on for quite a bit after that.
00:11:21.240 So Bernard would ring my wife at the time, and every day,
00:11:26.820 and he'd go, I was allowed to do all right.
00:11:29.860 It's not a very good Bernard accent, but that sort of thing.
00:11:31.720 It's a bit West Country, but we'll stick with it.
00:11:33.440 Yeah.
00:11:34.280 Who's that other comedian from the West Country?
00:11:36.100 I like him.
00:11:37.160 One word name.
00:11:38.420 Oh, Jethro.
00:11:39.140 Jethro, yeah.
00:11:40.840 You know, it might be a bit of him too.
00:11:42.900 No, but Bernard, the thing about Bernard,
00:11:45.140 his next-door neighbour was an Indian doctor.
00:11:49.540 And he, you probably know this, he and Bernard were best mates.
00:11:53.340 And Bernard would be rude about everybody, not just, you know,
00:11:56.220 he had a club called the Embassy Club in Manchester,
00:12:00.140 and it burnt down, strangely enough.
00:12:02.640 And the first night it came back,
00:12:03.940 we decided we would do my late-night TV show from his club.
00:12:08.900 And I don't know if I can tell this story.
00:12:10.800 I'm just thinking about it here.
00:12:12.300 Anyway, basically, he walks on stage.
00:12:16.500 Nothing used to be scripted with Bernard as well.
00:12:18.860 He walked on stage with a fire extinguisher under his arm. 0.99
00:12:22.280 That fucking Colonel Gaddafi got the wrong fucking embassy. 1.00
00:12:29.520 You know, the whole place. 1.00
00:12:31.160 And there were people of all colours and all in that club,
00:12:35.380 laughing at everything he said.
00:12:36.780 And he would pick on various people.
00:12:38.600 And it was just very funny.
00:12:40.480 But it was offensive.
00:12:42.340 Yeah.
00:12:42.580 Now, if you were offensive as a comedian, you would be cancelled.
00:12:48.460 You're not having you appear here.
00:12:49.980 Is that why you gave it all up and you're doing this?
00:12:52.460 No.
00:12:53.400 No, not at all.
00:12:54.760 Not at all.
00:12:56.060 Part of the reason that we're doing this is because I did feel that things were,
00:13:00.780 well, I think it's undeniable that things in comedy became more and more restricted.
00:13:06.240 People were getting cancelled.
00:13:07.860 Yeah.
00:13:07.940 You could see jokes that worked six months ago.
00:13:11.320 Suddenly, the audience became really tight and tense around it.
00:13:14.060 You're going, what's going on here?
00:13:15.060 Yeah.
00:13:15.840 You know, people who were liberal becoming more illiberal.
00:13:18.620 Look, we've covered this a lot.
00:13:19.780 So that's partly the reason why.
00:13:21.480 Well, yeah.
00:13:21.980 And the sensitivity that people often think about it in terms of like cancellation.
00:13:26.500 But I remember the first joke I ever wrote, the very, very first joke was,
00:13:31.380 this was in 2014.
00:13:32.880 I don't remember.
00:13:33.560 But that was when Russia had just taken Crimea from Ukraine.
00:13:37.700 I do.
00:13:38.360 And the first joke I wrote is, I'm Russian.
00:13:40.840 My wife is Ukrainian.
00:13:42.140 She likes her independence.
00:13:43.680 That was the first joke I wrote.
00:13:44.900 You used to get a massive laugh.
00:13:47.240 But then over the course of a few years, it became completely, you know,
00:13:50.940 it just stopped being something that you could joke about
00:13:54.420 because everyone takes everything seriously.
00:13:56.240 It's a shame because it is actually making life more tense.
00:14:00.180 Because if you laugh at something, take the mick out of something,
00:14:03.800 then it gets easier to handle.
00:14:05.740 Yeah.
00:14:05.820 Well, that's my view.
00:14:07.340 No.
00:14:07.860 And so what's interesting is we were talking about America before we started.
00:14:12.300 In America, this is totally not the case.
00:14:14.040 Yeah.
00:14:14.280 So in America, all the comedians that are now successful are the super offensive ones.
00:14:18.780 Yeah.
00:14:18.920 You know, we've had a bunch of them on the show.
00:14:21.840 You know, Tony Hinchcliffe, who would be other good examples?
00:14:25.480 Andrew Schultz.
00:14:26.400 Bill Burr.
00:14:26.940 Bill Burr.
00:14:27.520 Shane Gillis.
00:14:28.640 Joe Rogan.
00:14:29.600 A bunch of them.
00:14:30.160 He's very funny.
00:14:30.960 Yeah.
00:14:31.480 He is.
00:14:31.780 And so all of these guys, they're making waves now, and they just don't seem to have that super restrictive culture that we have in this country.
00:14:42.180 Do you have any insight on why that is, that Britain is a little bit more touchy-feely about stuff like that?
00:14:48.740 We got ourselves into that woke situation when things were a bit rough and a little bit uncomfortable, and people thought, well, we should be nicer to everybody.
00:14:58.060 And then they tried to enforce it.
00:14:59.680 And I think it was during the time of the Blair government when things began to get into this situation, because it just got that you couldn't be rude about it. 0.98
00:15:10.320 You can't say you're a fat git. 1.00
00:15:12.480 You can't say you're a bull bastard. 1.00
00:15:14.460 Both of those. 0.99
00:15:16.340 You know, it gets to a situation where everybody takes everything so seriously, and what's going to happen and what seems to be happening now is it's just going to explode.
00:15:27.140 Yeah.
00:15:27.640 And this is, I think, the point that people don't make enough, actually, when it comes to comedy.
00:15:32.140 It is a pressure valve.
00:15:33.360 Yeah.
00:15:33.880 It is.
00:15:34.400 You know, you make a few jokes.
00:15:36.080 It's that classic thing.
00:15:37.140 It's why firefighters, doctors, teachers, they tend to have the darkest.
00:15:42.560 The military as well.
00:15:43.020 Yeah, the military.
00:15:43.540 You tend to have the darkest sense of humor.
00:15:45.660 Yeah.
00:15:45.960 Because when you're confronted by the brutal facts of life, completely unvarnished, the only way you can cope with it, well, there's a couple of ways.
00:15:54.960 You either hit the source, you get on something a little bit harder, or you have a joke and a laugh about it.
00:16:00.280 Yeah.
00:16:00.940 I mean, you know, I do a program.
00:16:04.620 I've always done a program.
00:16:05.740 I suddenly found, when I was in my 20s, on my first radio station in the Northeast, and, you know, I got onto radio by, not by accident, by really just thinking in the way I thought, I'd like to do that.
00:16:21.700 Couldn't do much else.
00:16:22.820 I'd been to drama school for a little bit.
00:16:24.660 That didn't really do me much good.
00:16:26.060 They said, your voice doesn't sound like you look.
00:16:29.160 You've got a leading man's voice, and you've got the villain's face.
00:16:34.680 I said, all right.
00:16:35.580 So change one or the other.
00:16:36.980 So I thought radio is the place to go, and I found everybody was so, everybody who's on the radio, hi, it's really nice to have you, and you, of course, are the most important people, you listeners, and it's really great, and I'm so happy, and I'm sure you're happy.
00:16:57.100 And it was all this pleasantness.
00:16:59.180 And I was doing an interview with the late Dame Edna, and he said, I listened to you a bit.
00:17:07.860 He said, can I give you a word of advice?
00:17:10.280 I'm not doing the Australian accent.
00:17:12.340 I said, yeah.
00:17:12.980 He said, just be a little more cutty.
00:17:16.880 I said, all right.
00:17:18.260 He said, everybody in this country seems in the media to want to be nice.
00:17:21.560 And as you know, as Dame Edna, he was quite rude.
00:17:23.380 And so sort of I decided phone calls on air, the machinery had just come in, and everybody was excited.
00:17:32.120 You can actually do this and plug it on air and take a phone call, and people can hear it.
00:17:37.200 So I was on the late night show anyway, so I said to him, he said, I don't really care what you do.
00:17:41.920 He said, nobody listens after six o'clock.
00:17:44.860 Six till six was the programming format at the time.
00:17:48.540 And I ended up having a few calls. 1.00
00:17:51.160 It was very nice, a couple of days, and then somebody rang in and said something stupid I thought was stupid. 1.00
00:17:56.480 I said, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. 1.00
00:17:58.980 I've had enough of you. 0.98
00:17:59.840 Goodbye.
00:18:00.260 Bang.
00:18:01.200 And phone calls lit up.
00:18:04.160 Absolutely like a, and even now, a little controversy or confrontation on the air.
00:18:11.500 People want to, they want something that's, as long as you're doing it in a funny way.
00:18:15.340 I mean, a lot of mine is tongue in cheek, even though some of the people that I'll have a go at don't realise it.
00:18:22.280 Particularly the bloke who came in, said he could prove there were aliens.
00:18:25.740 And in the end, I held up this picture, and he said, this is my life's work.
00:18:30.140 You're ridiculing my life's work.
00:18:32.300 I said, this is a picture, and you say it proves there are aliens.
00:18:34.940 How?
00:18:35.400 I'm telling you there are aliens.
00:18:37.440 And we have this argument.
00:18:38.580 I said, I think you better leave.
00:18:39.480 And he said, I'm bloody going, and got on, stormed off the show.
00:18:42.860 Great ratings.
00:18:45.100 I'm trying not to do it too often, but sometimes it's difficult.
00:18:48.220 You get onto a roll.
00:18:49.580 What have you, like, learned?
00:18:51.880 Because one of the, I remember somebody saying to me in, like, a customer service job that I worked in when I was a student,
00:18:58.140 like, when you encounter Joe Public, it changes your perception of reality forever.
00:19:04.600 Like, dealing with people calling into a radio show, you must learn something from that.
00:19:08.980 You must sort of think in a slightly different way about life when you encounter something.
00:19:13.120 Well, I actually think nobody's really that different.
00:19:16.820 You know, we're all pretty similar.
00:19:19.140 We were in the pub.
00:19:20.280 We'd be no different to anybody else in the pub.
00:19:22.220 We're lucky to do a job that I think is really, I've never really had a job.
00:19:27.180 50 years, I've managed to come my way through not having a job and just talking.
00:19:32.380 How can that be a job?
00:19:34.200 You know, people think, oh, you must spend lots of time doing research.
00:19:38.000 I'd much rather, on my TV or radio show, or both now combined, talk to people on the phone and have reactions on the phone
00:19:46.540 than sometimes having some of the most boring people in the studio.
00:19:52.400 And I think people are more entertaining than a lot of those who feel that they are in a superior position.
00:20:02.080 So what I started doing was talking to people who thought they were in a superior position, as if they were just a phone caller.
00:20:10.040 Yeah.
00:20:10.540 Do you know what I mean?
00:20:11.240 No, absolutely.
00:20:12.260 It's a really interesting point.
00:20:14.080 And it speaks to the disconnect between politicians and the elite, for want of a better way of putting it,
00:20:20.040 and Joe Public, whereby they think they're so smart.
00:20:25.000 They think that they, you know, that they're in control.
00:20:28.780 They're in charge.
00:20:30.320 They're not.
00:20:30.700 And they're not.
00:20:31.840 And most of the time, every time they try and trick the public, the public's like, hang on a minute, mate.
00:20:37.960 But you've just said this five minutes ago.
00:20:39.520 So why are you saying this now?
00:20:40.800 Come on.
00:20:41.540 And they get exposed.
00:20:42.640 It's like constantly underestimate the intelligence of the ordinary man or woman.
00:20:46.580 So where does that leave us?
00:20:48.480 In the middle.
00:20:50.180 With them or with them.
00:20:52.360 And that's the conflict.
00:20:53.280 You know, the fact that now having an opinion different to the government at this moment makes you a right-wing extremist. 0.98
00:21:04.320 And we're conflicting, you know, people with one view with these thugs and yobbs and scumbags who are, you know, hurling bricks, burning cars, beating people up. 0.99
00:21:18.280 They're actually mentally incapable, in my view. 1.00
00:21:22.040 Probably need some sort of help. 0.58
00:21:24.240 But if somebody says, well, I'm concerned about migration.
00:21:29.840 That seems to be the big story. 0.97
00:21:31.960 Then you are a right-wing thug. 0.97
00:21:34.980 I mean. 0.95
00:21:35.220 And that's not going to go down well, is it?
00:21:37.940 No, it's not.
00:21:39.220 It's not.
00:21:39.740 And you just think they've got all these advisors.
00:21:44.120 They've been to the best universities.
00:21:45.960 They're educated.
00:21:47.040 They're intelligent.
00:21:48.040 People go, Keir Starmer isn't intelligent.
00:21:49.860 I'm going, come on, you know.
00:21:51.280 But the fact that they, to me, that is an unforgivable gaffe, really.
00:21:56.800 Just because you went to university doesn't mean that you're more intelligent than somebody who didn't.
00:22:02.100 It may mean you are cleverer in a certain field.
00:22:05.920 I didn't find out until I was in my 30s that I am severely dyslexic, which then answered lots of questions about why I couldn't stand school and various other things.
00:22:16.840 But, you know, people are intelligent.
00:22:20.460 And some people use it in one way.
00:22:22.640 Some people use it in another way.
00:22:24.520 But this idea that if you are in maybe even bank manager, lawyer, accountant, you know, these politician, political advisors.
00:22:36.380 Have you noticed how many political advisors there are now?
00:22:40.180 Anybody can be one.
00:22:41.180 So they all assume that they're more intelligent than the others.
00:22:45.060 But that isn't true.
00:22:47.000 No.
00:22:47.460 And it rapidly happens again and again and again.
00:22:51.740 And what it does is it betrays a certain arrogance amongst the political class.
00:22:56.960 Yeah, no, I agree.
00:22:58.040 I totally agree.
00:22:59.040 But, you see, I've got this idea that if you're going to be a politician, you should only be allowed to do two terms.
00:23:04.720 It shouldn't be a career.
00:23:06.160 It should be a calling because you want to do things for the country and for the people.
00:23:10.300 People now talk about politics as a career.
00:23:14.060 And so they go to university.
00:23:15.540 They get a job as a political advisor or a spokesperson or whatever it is.
00:23:21.580 And then they get put forward to stand as a politician.
00:23:25.240 And they, I mean, that's such a great point.
00:23:27.700 I mean, the problem is, is there are some people who are career politicians.
00:23:33.180 Like, take Corbyn, for example.
00:23:34.780 Whatever you think of the man's politics, I speak to a lot of people in his constituency.
00:23:39.040 He's a fantastic constituency MP.
00:23:41.740 I mean, he then got exposed when he went further up the ladder.
00:23:46.480 So I guess there is that balance where there are people who are very good politicians
00:23:50.060 and they care deeply about their community and they're very good at their community.
00:23:54.380 But I do think there are people as well who are naked careerists who have very little interest
00:24:01.860 in serving their communities.
00:24:03.380 I agree.
00:24:04.280 I totally agree.
00:24:05.640 But until people begin to realize that voting does make a difference, you know, so many people
00:24:13.420 in this country didn't vote in the last election.
00:24:15.360 And we're being governed by a party that had, was it 20%?
00:24:19.820 33.8.
00:24:20.860 Yeah.
00:24:21.640 How can that be right?
00:24:23.040 How can that be democratic when obviously the vast majority of people didn't vote for them? 0.99
00:24:28.820 It's ridiculous. 0.98
00:24:30.040 Yeah. 0.90
00:24:31.100 So people feel they're on.
00:24:32.740 You've moved that.
00:24:33.800 You moved that thing so I couldn't keep an eye on myself.
00:24:36.120 So just so people know what he's talking about, we have a screen here so our producer can
00:24:41.160 see all the different shots and angles.
00:24:44.480 And James was in one and he was complaining more than our female guest about the way he
00:24:49.340 looks, which is quite a high bar because they're always whining.
00:24:52.640 I am very in touch with my female side.
00:24:55.180 I very seldom go out without makeup.
00:24:58.020 Really?
00:24:58.300 Oh, yeah.
00:24:58.920 Well, you've got a little blemish there I can see, but, you know, do you not ever think
00:25:03.780 about doing a bit?
00:25:04.620 Have you done makeup?
00:25:05.840 Yeah.
00:25:06.240 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:25:07.640 Yeah.
00:25:08.140 Not to go out, though.
00:25:09.360 Yeah.
00:25:10.040 You wouldn't go out with a bit of makeup?
00:25:11.560 No.
00:25:12.060 And, you know, I hate watching sport on TV.
00:25:14.480 I'm not interested in football or cricket, but I do like going shopping.
00:25:19.340 And I love the odd scatter cushion.
00:25:23.260 Perfume.
00:25:24.440 Does that make me a bad person?
00:25:25.920 I mean, you're a presenter on Talk Sport.
00:25:27.940 How can you?
00:25:29.140 Talk, not sport.
00:25:30.760 Oh, you didn't do Talk Sport.
00:25:31.940 I thought you did Talk Sport.
00:25:32.520 I did do Talk Sport.
00:25:33.760 I was the only non-sports program on the station.
00:25:37.540 Oh, there you go, then.
00:25:38.680 I was a leftover from the original Talk Radio, and then it went to Talk Sport.
00:25:43.280 But we had such a good audience.
00:25:45.920 They said, well, no one's going to want to talk about sport in the evening.
00:25:50.140 And until I had a little fallout at that time with the current, not the current management,
00:25:54.980 but the management that were there and went to LBC, I was the only non-sports program on Talk Sport,
00:26:03.800 which is quite funny, really, when you think about it.
00:26:05.520 Yeah, it is.
00:26:05.920 I consider my program a sport in itself.
00:26:10.800 But I don't think just because I like shopping and don't like sport makes me a bad person.
00:26:16.440 No, nobody said that.
00:26:17.620 No, no, I know.
00:26:18.420 I mean, we insinuated it.
00:26:19.800 Yeah, exactly.
00:26:22.520 We all know it's true.
00:26:24.380 But, James, I wanted to ask you something, and I hope it's not too personal a question,
00:26:27.920 but you mentioned getting cancer in 2000, and obviously you've got it.
00:26:32.260 Now, how does it change your perspective on life when you kind of know that your time is –
00:26:38.100 like, we all know our time is limited, but you know what I mean.
00:26:40.300 Right.
00:26:41.680 My first thought was, God, I can make a load of money as a hitman and not fear any consequences.
00:26:50.720 The fact is you have to come to terms with it.
00:26:54.280 I've been very lucky.
00:26:55.200 Listen, imagine in my – I was in my situation.
00:26:59.060 I have level four cancer.
00:27:01.660 It's terminal.
00:27:02.840 I should have been dead four years ago.
00:27:05.480 So, I don't know.
00:27:06.580 Any – you know, if I've – Evo now, you're just going to have to get somebody to come and take me away.
00:27:14.720 I'm philosophical in the way that everybody's going to die.
00:27:17.380 We're all going to die.
00:27:18.640 I have been waiting for it – or not waiting for it,
00:27:23.180 but knowing that I'm probably not going to see maybe next Christmas.
00:27:27.140 But I've been saying that for the last four years.
00:27:31.060 But I do have quite a lot of tumours.
00:27:33.200 The interesting thing is that a lot of people think, because I don't look ill particularly, 0.86
00:27:38.420 and I don't sound ill, although you saw me come in, I look a bit of a knackered old git, really.
00:27:43.760 Some people think you're putting it on.
00:27:47.820 I couldn't assure you I'm not putting it on.
00:27:50.200 You're putting on the tumours.
00:27:52.020 You know.
00:27:52.980 I'll tell you, listen, I don't really show this very often,
00:27:55.720 but because I'm on all kinds of tablets and things, look what it does, you know, to you.
00:28:02.320 And there really is no way of dealing with this, I find, than talking about it.
00:28:07.800 No better way.
00:28:08.760 And people are embarrassed to talk to you about it.
00:28:11.460 So my wife and I do this podcast called Tales of the Whales,
00:28:14.940 which is just – it's about having cancer and being the person with somebody who has it.
00:28:20.000 And it's difficult, and people get very upset about it.
00:28:23.520 But we are the worst country in the world for talking about death.
00:28:28.280 Other countries talk about it.
00:28:30.140 It's part of their existence.
00:28:32.540 We never want to talk about it, do we?
00:28:34.540 Why do you think that is?
00:28:35.600 I don't know.
00:28:36.720 Frightened?
00:28:38.000 This sort of pseudo-religious Christian view that we're all supposed to have about if we don't –
00:28:45.260 you know, religion – I don't like religion much.
00:28:47.340 I'm sorry, I don't want to offend anyone.
00:28:49.040 But the two main religions, Christianity and Islam,
00:28:51.940 all they seem to want to do is convert you to their way of thinking.
00:28:56.700 And if they don't, then they get very upset with you.
00:28:59.160 I don't have any worry about that.
00:29:01.720 I'm going to die.
00:29:03.000 What's after that?
00:29:04.020 If anything, who knows?
00:29:05.560 Be an experience.
00:29:07.380 But I think you have to – it's all part of life, if you like.
00:29:10.920 I do try and do things I want to do rather than saying,
00:29:13.900 oh, I wouldn't mind doing that next year.
00:29:16.340 So you can get on and do things.
00:29:18.580 And I suggest anybody from the age of 40 upwards,
00:29:21.640 because that's when things start going wrong.
00:29:25.200 Do get –
00:29:25.780 No, I'm sorry.
00:29:26.400 Thanks, mate.
00:29:27.160 You know, do get regular checks.
00:29:29.360 I mean, you're both very fit and very healthy.
00:29:31.800 But I bet you've not had a medical for a while.
00:29:34.040 I have.
00:29:34.700 Have you?
00:29:35.180 Yep.
00:29:35.460 You were even better then.
00:29:36.600 Yeah.
00:29:36.960 Yep.
00:29:37.260 Good.
00:29:37.720 Actually, when we were in America, I met a guy called Peter Tia,
00:29:40.380 who's written a book called Outlive, which is all about
00:29:42.560 how do you extend the part of your life when you're not ill.
00:29:46.740 Because most modern medicine is about you get really ill at the end of your life,
00:29:51.060 and then they make that last.
00:29:52.620 And that's great, because, you know, you're a good example of this.
00:29:55.240 You've had a lot more time than initially you might have thought you would.
00:29:59.080 But in an ideal world, what you want to do is extend the part of your life
00:30:02.280 when you're not seriously ill.
00:30:03.440 You don't want to be in bed with tubes stuck in you and kept alive
00:30:07.460 for as long as they can, which is why I'm a believer in that, you know,
00:30:11.460 when you get to that stage where you can't get out of bed,
00:30:15.060 you can't go to the toilet, you can't do anything on your own,
00:30:18.940 you should be allowed to have a...
00:30:20.360 I wouldn't do that to my dog.
00:30:23.200 And you should be allowed to have an injection and peacefully slip away.
00:30:26.700 Yeah.
00:30:27.740 We have the technology to do it.
00:30:29.400 Yeah.
00:30:29.620 Yeah.
00:30:30.080 And just coming back a little bit, James, you mentioned, you know,
00:30:33.440 having to kind of come to a position when you accept that.
00:30:37.080 Was that the way you always felt?
00:30:38.600 Or has it been your experience that you've had to kind of get to that position?
00:30:43.000 No, I think I've been...
00:30:44.680 People might say I'm a bit blasé.
00:30:47.440 But if I'm on my own for a while,
00:30:50.620 sitting at home and, you know, thinking about things too deeply,
00:30:54.800 you can get a bit depressed about it.
00:30:56.820 Of course.
00:30:57.200 But I've thought, well, it's part of life.
00:31:00.620 It's going to happen.
00:31:01.820 I mean, I don't know if I want to talk...
00:31:04.360 Well, my wife died about five, six years ago.
00:31:09.300 And when she was very ill and I was in my local pub,
00:31:15.740 a lady came up to me and just said, 1.00
00:31:17.840 oh, I just wanted to say that I'm so sorry to hear about your wife,
00:31:23.480 but she's under the same doctor as my husband
00:31:25.920 and he's been doing marvellous things for him.
00:31:28.020 And I said, oh, okay, fine.
00:31:31.180 Cut to some time later, my wife had died.
00:31:34.460 I was in the pub and this lady came up to me and said, 0.64
00:31:37.620 oh, I'm so sorry to hear about your wife. 0.59
00:31:42.520 Here's my card.
00:31:44.360 I'm collecting clothes for the homeless. 1.00
00:31:47.040 I thought, you miserable cow. 1.00
00:31:49.420 My wife's just died in you. 1.00
00:31:51.720 That lady and I are now married.
00:31:54.860 Oh, wow.
00:31:55.200 And the last thing that my...
00:32:00.660 I don't know, how do you...
00:32:01.860 Not my ex-wife, my dead one.
00:32:04.940 Anyway, my wife before said to me,
00:32:09.040 the last thing she said, you must find a mate. 1.00
00:32:12.640 You cannot cope on your own
00:32:14.760 because apparently I'm pretty useless at ordinary stuff.
00:32:18.840 And I had absolutely no intention of finding someone.
00:32:23.200 And this lady walked into my life really spooky. 0.97
00:32:30.800 Yeah.
00:32:31.960 Sorry, I don't want to flatten everything,
00:32:33.960 but for me, it's been great.
00:32:35.640 I mean, you know, she's an amazing lady, 0.88
00:32:37.680 except that her husband died of cancer
00:32:39.600 and now her next husband's got it as well.
00:32:42.860 So I feel a little sorry for her.
00:32:45.180 But, you know, it's a very powerful story, James,
00:32:47.840 because what it's talking about really is the human spirit
00:32:50.540 and the human condition and that death is part of life
00:32:55.220 and it's obviously sad
00:32:56.460 and obviously you're going to mourn
00:32:58.200 and obviously you're going to get upset,
00:33:00.160 but also life carries on.
00:33:02.240 Yeah.
00:33:02.960 And, you know, I think the vast, vast majority of people,
00:33:07.440 when they're gone,
00:33:08.440 they don't want life to stop for their loved ones.
00:33:10.480 They don't want life to stop for their kids,
00:33:13.040 their wife or everywhere else.
00:33:14.000 It's important that we carry on
00:33:15.420 and that we continue to live.
00:33:17.280 And, you know, you've got to the middle age stage.
00:33:19.960 So you've got now,
00:33:21.080 you can look back on what you've done,
00:33:22.960 what you've achieved and enjoy it.
00:33:24.680 But you've also got that time
00:33:26.140 that you've got to continue to,
00:33:28.160 I've got to the interesting bit now,
00:33:30.960 you know, in a few years,
00:33:32.880 I'm going to be 80.
00:33:34.060 Well, I never thought I'd live that long
00:33:35.560 for any time.
00:33:37.000 Did you not?
00:33:37.740 No.
00:33:38.220 Why not?
00:33:38.600 I never thought about it, to be honest.
00:33:40.400 Never.
00:33:41.000 I thought when I started off on the age of 20,
00:33:44.580 you guys your age were old.
00:33:47.100 And...
00:33:47.740 Guys our age are old.
00:33:48.880 Yeah.
00:33:49.980 No, you're not.
00:33:51.040 And it just, it suddenly changed.
00:33:54.020 And I suddenly, when I first got cancer,
00:33:57.680 I was 49.
00:33:59.040 Don't want to worry you, but in my 40s.
00:34:01.500 And that was a, you know,
00:34:04.600 I had a huge operation, took one kidney out.
00:34:07.240 They said, we don't know how long you're going to live.
00:34:09.520 It could be two years, maybe.
00:34:11.420 Could be 20.
00:34:12.180 And from that time on,
00:34:14.540 I always made the most of everything I was doing.
00:34:18.560 Was that a big, sorry, Francis,
00:34:19.700 was that a big shift?
00:34:21.040 Like, before that,
00:34:22.240 did you kind of go through life the way many people do,
00:34:24.860 which is sort of thing,
00:34:25.860 oh, I'll do that later.
00:34:26.880 I've got time.
00:34:27.680 I've got this.
00:34:28.240 And then when you got the cancer,
00:34:29.440 you were like, okay, actually,
00:34:31.240 my time is limited.
00:34:32.140 I'm going to go for it.
00:34:33.160 Absolutely.
00:34:34.040 So I've had 20 great years
00:34:35.700 until my last wife died, obviously.
00:34:37.660 But then this other amazing and beautiful lady 1.00
00:34:40.080 came into my life.
00:34:41.820 And, you know,
00:34:43.060 I didn't think things like that could happen.
00:34:46.080 James, it's going to ask a bit of a silly question,
00:34:49.280 but I really think that there's a lot in this.
00:34:52.780 You said, make the most of it.
00:34:54.780 And it's one of those sayings
00:34:56.320 that we often use in conversation.
00:34:58.660 What do you mean by make the most of it?
00:35:00.900 Well, I could be sitting at home
00:35:02.620 watching Homes Under the Hammer
00:35:05.380 at this particular moment in time,
00:35:07.840 or I could be sitting here doing this,
00:35:10.520 which is far more entertaining and interesting.
00:35:12.800 And believe you me,
00:35:14.080 it took a lot to get me motivated
00:35:16.880 to get up and do it
00:35:18.200 because you're not paying.
00:35:20.560 So that's what I mean by make the most of it.
00:35:25.600 It's so easy when you're not feeling well
00:35:27.520 or you're not too good just to sit back,
00:35:30.260 cuddle the dog, you know,
00:35:33.000 ring the wife at work, annoy her. 1.00
00:35:35.920 But if you get up and do stuff,
00:35:39.860 I mean, I've been under some really, really,
00:35:42.280 I don't know, I wasn't going to talk about this,
00:35:43.680 but really tough chemo.
00:35:46.860 I couldn't walk.
00:35:48.280 I'm just getting my walking back.
00:35:49.540 My feet were like somebody
00:35:50.840 was holding a cigarette lighter underneath them.
00:35:54.180 Tips of my fingers, all funny,
00:35:57.520 sore, my whole mouth full of blisters,
00:36:01.200 and it was just doing me in.
00:36:05.220 So I made the decision for the moment anyway
00:36:07.160 until I see my doctor next week.
00:36:10.120 I've taken myself off the chemo
00:36:12.280 and I'm feeling a lot better today
00:36:14.720 than I did yesterday.
00:36:16.720 And the effects do go fairly quickly,
00:36:20.200 but I've got to decide,
00:36:22.980 do I want to stay on this
00:36:24.400 that makes me feel really bad?
00:36:26.320 And, you know,
00:36:27.040 it's keeping the tumours at bay.
00:36:29.620 Shrunk a few of the tumours.
00:36:32.460 But do I want to live in this way
00:36:35.200 where everything is a strain
00:36:37.040 or just say, no,
00:36:39.640 I'll just see how it goes?
00:36:40.820 Yeah, it's, you know,
00:36:43.980 it puts a lot of the problems
00:36:46.520 that we all have
00:36:47.920 in very, very sharp focus
00:36:50.760 because, you know,
00:36:53.180 you think the problems
00:36:54.740 that you deal with,
00:36:55.460 maybe with career
00:36:56.380 or friendships or relationships,
00:36:58.700 you know,
00:36:59.360 the normal stresses
00:37:00.160 and strains of life,
00:37:01.160 you tend to blow them up.
00:37:03.100 I certainly do.
00:37:04.280 But then when you look at things
00:37:06.300 when it comes to your health,
00:37:07.700 you realise that's actually
00:37:09.780 what's important.
00:37:10.820 And what we fail to realise
00:37:13.420 is how much we take our health
00:37:16.800 for granted.
00:37:17.480 But don't feel sorry for me.
00:37:18.980 Feel sorry for children
00:37:20.140 who are born with cancer.
00:37:22.460 Feel sorry for the young 20-year-olds
00:37:24.520 who one of the parents
00:37:27.280 of young children
00:37:28.120 suddenly finds they've got cancer
00:37:30.140 and they're not going to live very long.
00:37:32.760 I mean, I'm lucky.
00:37:34.280 I've had a good life.
00:37:35.880 I've made it 70, over 70,
00:37:38.300 heading to 80.
00:37:39.880 I mean, but just think of those people.
00:37:42.540 You guys, if you, you know,
00:37:44.360 I don't know whether you're married or not
00:37:45.760 or with each other.
00:37:47.160 I don't really care.
00:37:48.880 But imagine if one of you gets it
00:37:51.160 and you've got responsibility
00:37:52.860 of looking after other people
00:37:54.460 at a reasonably young age.
00:37:58.660 So I'm, in many ways,
00:38:01.160 I think I'm really thankful about this.
00:38:02.680 I've made old age.
00:38:03.840 And loads of people don't.
00:38:07.220 And what people don't understand,
00:38:08.940 all this rioting in the streets 1.00
00:38:10.500 and kicking off about stupid things, 1.00
00:38:12.780 guys, you're all going to die. 1.00
00:38:15.860 So rather than complaining that way
00:38:18.720 that doesn't really achieve anything,
00:38:21.780 it'll quieten down
00:38:22.760 and then we'll probably still go on
00:38:23.960 for another 10 years
00:38:24.700 and then flare up again.
00:38:26.380 Think of better ways
00:38:28.300 of sorting out our problems.
00:38:29.540 We've never done that
00:38:31.920 as a race, have we?
00:38:34.660 You know, we've always
00:38:35.720 resorted to violence
00:38:37.740 when we get to a certain stage
00:38:41.280 and it doesn't work.
00:38:43.120 It never has done, anyway.
00:38:45.180 Yeah, and you mentioned
00:38:45.880 that you'd seen
00:38:47.300 these types of problems
00:38:48.680 before in the 70s.
00:38:50.420 What was that like?
00:38:52.100 Well, it was, you know,
00:38:52.840 we had three-day weeks
00:38:53.700 and no electricity
00:38:55.860 and we had,
00:38:58.920 what was his name,
00:39:01.200 as the Prime Minister?
00:39:02.460 Callaghan.
00:39:03.180 No, before him
00:39:04.260 or after him. 0.99
00:39:07.920 The gay guy. 0.98
00:39:10.260 I shouldn't say that. 0.99
00:39:10.460 We've had a gay Prime Minister. 0.97
00:39:11.980 We have, yeah. 0.97
00:39:12.940 Well, allegedly.
00:39:14.400 Edward Heath.
00:39:15.120 Edward Heath, yeah.
00:39:15.960 There we go.
00:39:16.600 Allegedly, okay.
00:39:19.340 There you go, learn something. 1.00
00:39:20.520 The gay one. 1.00
00:39:25.720 And they, 0.97
00:39:27.240 those guys,
00:39:28.480 Callaghan as well,
00:39:29.540 they didn't really
00:39:31.020 have any contact
00:39:33.200 with the people.
00:39:35.000 That was when they,
00:39:35.740 you know,
00:39:36.080 didn't realise.
00:39:37.540 And before social media,
00:39:38.720 when a fax machine
00:39:40.100 was state of the art.
00:39:42.200 When I started out,
00:39:43.440 there were no mobile phones.
00:39:46.360 God.
00:39:47.420 You could do all sorts of things.
00:39:49.040 Nobody could find you.
00:39:50.060 Yeah.
00:39:50.900 Right.
00:39:51.320 So how,
00:39:51.980 so you've got all these problems
00:39:54.560 in society back then
00:39:55.600 and you mentioned also
00:39:56.440 that there was a racial tension
00:39:57.900 going on at the time.
00:40:01.580 Do you see what's happening now
00:40:03.400 as just another flare-up of that
00:40:05.540 or do you think things
00:40:06.360 have changed significantly?
00:40:07.940 I think,
00:40:08.520 I think things have changed.
00:40:10.040 I don't see it as a flare-up.
00:40:11.660 I see it that people
00:40:12.880 have been unhappy
00:40:15.220 for quite some time.
00:40:16.740 You know,
00:40:17.580 we have suddenly heard
00:40:19.460 that pensioners 1.00
00:40:20.620 like me
00:40:21.720 are not going to have
00:40:22.940 their winter fuel alliance
00:40:24.420 anymore.
00:40:27.120 It doesn't matter so much for me
00:40:28.740 but for a lot of people
00:40:29.700 it does.
00:40:30.740 Actually,
00:40:31.120 it does for me too
00:40:31.800 when I think about it.
00:40:32.660 You know,
00:40:32.900 it's all worthwhile.
00:40:34.700 I forget how much money
00:40:35.740 I've wasted in my life
00:40:36.760 and I think
00:40:40.920 when people,
00:40:42.420 now just ordinary people
00:40:43.520 see it's okay
00:40:45.080 to spend billions
00:40:46.080 to send to another country
00:40:47.800 to do this,
00:40:49.020 to do that
00:40:49.440 when we are
00:40:50.260 in a financial pit.
00:40:53.080 We are not,
00:40:54.000 you know,
00:40:54.240 we've got no money.
00:40:55.420 We've got to put the tax up
00:40:56.920 so pensioners 0.69
00:40:58.560 are probably going to have
00:40:59.340 to start paying
00:41:00.600 their national insurance again
00:41:02.620 because you get to
00:41:03.300 pensional age
00:41:03.880 you don't have to pay it.
00:41:05.760 Are you optimistic
00:41:07.760 about the path
00:41:09.420 that this country is on?
00:41:11.280 Well,
00:41:11.560 if they get it sorted out,
00:41:12.780 yeah,
00:41:13.080 but if they carry on
00:41:14.100 the way that they are
00:41:15.480 at the moment,
00:41:16.840 no,
00:41:17.740 because what they're doing
00:41:18.680 at the moment
00:41:19.200 is that they are
00:41:20.520 actually separating
00:41:21.700 different people
00:41:23.660 you know,
00:41:24.580 they're going with one side
00:41:26.000 and not the other,
00:41:26.740 not trying to be
00:41:28.000 the government
00:41:28.520 of all the people.
00:41:29.620 The last government
00:41:30.500 were just too wet
00:41:31.700 and too weak
00:41:32.300 and too wrapped up
00:41:33.860 in themselves
00:41:34.440 to be doing any good either.
00:41:37.060 So,
00:41:37.780 you said something
00:41:38.700 very interesting
00:41:39.520 which was
00:41:40.060 if they sort things out,
00:41:42.020 what do you mean
00:41:42.580 by that,
00:41:43.040 James?
00:41:43.680 Well,
00:41:43.900 they've got to sort out
00:41:45.100 what the public feel.
00:41:47.380 Now,
00:41:47.540 if I say this,
00:41:49.020 we're going to be written off
00:41:50.140 or I am as a
00:41:51.400 right-wing extremist.
00:41:53.120 I mean,
00:41:53.340 isn't everyone nowadays?
00:41:54.400 Yeah,
00:41:54.780 but people want,
00:41:55.860 you know,
00:41:56.120 we're paying billions of pounds
00:41:58.100 to put people
00:41:58.960 who've come here illegally,
00:42:00.140 I'm not talking about people
00:42:01.020 who come here legally
00:42:01.800 and want to contribute
00:42:03.100 and want to live
00:42:03.820 because they want to be
00:42:05.560 part of Britain
00:42:06.360 and they want to live like Britain.
00:42:07.380 I'm talking about
00:42:08.140 A,
00:42:08.720 people who come here
00:42:09.680 and want to live
00:42:10.280 as if they were in the country
00:42:11.380 they left
00:42:12.020 and not integrate
00:42:13.320 and that's our fault
00:42:14.220 in many ways.
00:42:15.400 We should be more
00:42:16.260 acceptable
00:42:18.100 of trying to help people integrate.
00:42:19.580 We must do that
00:42:20.380 and then we spend
00:42:22.100 all this money
00:42:22.680 and putting people in hotels
00:42:23.820 and there are lots of people
00:42:24.980 living on the street.
00:42:26.180 There's an enormous housing problem
00:42:27.780 in this country
00:42:28.580 where people are
00:42:30.000 living in accommodation
00:42:31.500 that's really not fit
00:42:32.880 or habitable
00:42:33.680 and the rents
00:42:35.120 are going sky high
00:42:36.320 and then
00:42:37.740 they,
00:42:39.200 you know,
00:42:39.420 it's not being racist,
00:42:40.740 it's being practical.
00:42:42.460 The people who've been here
00:42:43.960 who've never gone anywhere else,
00:42:45.320 who find life tough
00:42:46.700 and a struggle
00:42:47.280 and get caught in that area
00:42:48.740 of I've got no hope
00:42:50.960 and nothing to look forward to
00:42:52.500 and everything else
00:42:53.200 and the government
00:42:54.400 don't seem to understand it.
00:42:56.940 You know,
00:42:57.200 they talk about,
00:42:58.280 well,
00:42:58.440 the more population
00:42:59.660 we can grow,
00:43:00.520 the better it is
00:43:01.240 for our financial situation.
00:43:02.860 Well,
00:43:02.960 it doesn't seem to be,
00:43:03.860 does it?
00:43:04.780 I mean,
00:43:05.080 we're having to borrow trillions.
00:43:08.080 We're never going to get that back
00:43:09.640 and we've been invaded,
00:43:11.840 if you like,
00:43:12.320 that really upsets people
00:43:13.460 when I say that,
00:43:14.040 but we've been invaded
00:43:15.180 by people in little boats
00:43:16.980 coming here illegally,
00:43:18.880 which if it was a land border
00:43:20.940 with a fence,
00:43:22.400 we'd be far more aggressive
00:43:24.140 about keeping people
00:43:25.720 who wanted to come here
00:43:26.760 illegally out,
00:43:27.460 wouldn't we?
00:43:29.140 Yet,
00:43:29.740 we're just saying,
00:43:30.700 oh,
00:43:30.840 sympathising,
00:43:31.480 oh,
00:43:31.580 poor people come here. 1.00
00:43:32.720 All these are guys,
00:43:33.700 young guys in their 20s,
00:43:35.100 30s,
00:43:35.880 not really.
00:43:38.640 Maybe they should be
00:43:39.620 in their countries
00:43:40.300 helping sort that out
00:43:41.440 rather than coming here.
00:43:43.580 And why do you think
00:43:44.800 both a Labour
00:43:46.060 and a Conservative government
00:43:47.480 would allow that to happen?
00:43:49.420 Because I think they think
00:43:50.560 that the more people
00:43:51.380 they can draw in,
00:43:52.620 the more people
00:43:53.460 they can make money out of.
00:43:55.540 And I'm not really sure
00:43:56.460 how that's going to work.
00:43:58.640 I mean,
00:43:58.940 an economist might tell you,
00:44:00.220 but they seem to feel
00:44:01.100 that the bigger the population,
00:44:03.120 the bigger the growth.
00:44:04.700 But we are spending now.
00:44:06.440 It's like you and I
00:44:07.260 going out and spending
00:44:08.360 what we have got in the bank
00:44:11.240 and then borrowing some more
00:44:12.740 and going and spending
00:44:13.520 that as well.
00:44:15.460 I think it's a dangerous position
00:44:17.100 that they don't realise
00:44:18.580 that a lot of people
00:44:19.920 are very worried
00:44:20.600 when they see somebody
00:44:21.600 who's just come
00:44:22.580 to this country illegally,
00:44:24.660 put into a nice home.
00:44:25.960 They're now talking about
00:44:26.940 putting people
00:44:28.300 who've come here illegally
00:44:29.340 into houses
00:44:30.940 that are empty.
00:44:32.400 What about all the people
00:44:33.340 on the waiting list?
00:44:35.000 I mean,
00:44:35.200 how many young people,
00:44:36.520 I imagine you guys
00:44:38.100 lucky enough
00:44:38.980 to get your own places
00:44:40.080 and, you know,
00:44:41.480 could you do that today?
00:44:43.520 If we were in our 20s today,
00:44:45.280 could we do it?
00:44:45.980 People of our generation
00:44:47.360 really struggle
00:44:48.060 to get on the housing ladder
00:44:49.640 and we're in our 40s.
00:44:51.480 Yeah.
00:44:52.320 So what it's like
00:44:53.660 for young people,
00:44:54.300 I dread to imagine.
00:44:55.560 Well, it's almost impossible.
00:44:57.240 You know,
00:44:58.060 it's almost impossible.
00:44:59.920 I know from my own family
00:45:01.640 and members of my own family
00:45:03.760 absolutely find it impossible
00:45:05.600 to save enough money
00:45:07.500 to have a deposit
00:45:08.600 to put on a house.
00:45:09.860 And they can say,
00:45:10.560 well, we're building loads
00:45:11.700 but they might be building
00:45:13.440 but they're not building houses
00:45:14.700 that are affordable.
00:45:17.120 Yeah.
00:45:17.480 But they're also not building loads.
00:45:19.280 They're not building
00:45:19.820 anywhere near enough.
00:45:20.680 No.
00:45:21.060 No.
00:45:21.620 There's an enormous amount
00:45:22.440 of greenery around here.
00:45:23.900 Yeah.
00:45:24.660 That's why we're out here.
00:45:27.360 Well, I think it's nicer
00:45:28.440 than being in the city
00:45:29.340 but it actually is not funny,
00:45:32.980 is it,
00:45:33.200 when you think about it?
00:45:34.140 When I grew up
00:45:36.020 in the 70s,
00:45:38.560 it was quite easy
00:45:39.640 to buy a house.
00:45:41.420 You know,
00:45:41.960 my first house
00:45:42.940 cost six grand.
00:45:45.300 What?
00:45:47.700 It's not that funny.
00:45:49.380 I don't know.
00:45:50.400 I think it's pretty funny.
00:45:51.540 Put it this way.
00:45:52.280 Six grand.
00:45:53.120 Six grand.
00:45:53.740 But I earned
00:45:54.700 50 pounds a week
00:45:56.700 and that was quite a lot of money.
00:45:58.540 My first radio contract
00:45:59.800 was 2,500 pounds a year.
00:46:03.720 A year.
00:46:04.260 Yeah, but still,
00:46:06.660 that's three annual salaries
00:46:09.820 bought you a house.
00:46:10.740 That is not remotely the case
00:46:12.600 for most people nowadays.
00:46:13.860 Yeah.
00:46:14.420 Right.
00:46:14.920 And the mortgage I had
00:46:15.880 at the time,
00:46:16.500 I mean,
00:46:16.820 was sort of half
00:46:18.300 the money I earned.
00:46:19.420 So it was,
00:46:20.200 you know,
00:46:20.580 it did seem difficult.
00:46:23.340 But,
00:46:24.040 and,
00:46:24.640 you know,
00:46:25.800 there is no way
00:46:26.760 you could buy a house
00:46:27.960 on an average wage
00:46:29.120 three times
00:46:30.240 an average wage
00:46:31.760 you wouldn't get a house for.
00:46:33.140 Yeah.
00:46:33.300 And that is
00:46:35.660 such a huge problem.
00:46:37.580 It's such a cause
00:46:38.740 of so much
00:46:40.740 of what we're seeing now.
00:46:42.300 You know,
00:46:42.780 there's a lot of people
00:46:43.840 who come on this show
00:46:44.780 and I do it as well
00:46:45.940 and,
00:46:46.700 you know,
00:46:47.520 make complaints
00:46:48.260 about the younger generation
00:46:49.400 or criticisms.
00:46:50.700 And look,
00:46:50.960 there's things they complain about
00:46:52.000 and there's things
00:46:52.420 to criticise them about.
00:46:54.660 But when they turn around...
00:46:55.120 I just want them
00:46:55.720 to pick a gender.
00:46:57.120 Just one.
00:46:58.000 Yeah, they do.
00:46:58.360 I don't care which one it is.
00:46:59.800 They do.
00:47:00.300 And then tomorrow
00:47:00.800 it's different.
00:47:01.540 Yeah.
00:47:01.780 Yeah.
00:47:02.180 It's fine.
00:47:02.860 It's great.
00:47:04.080 But when they turn around
00:47:05.220 and they go,
00:47:05.620 you know what, 0.98
00:47:06.100 we've been screwed. 0.99
00:47:07.280 You go, 0.99
00:47:08.720 you can't really argue
00:47:10.200 against that,
00:47:10.780 can you?
00:47:11.080 No.
00:47:11.800 No.
00:47:12.380 And it's because
00:47:13.060 the people
00:47:13.660 in the political class
00:47:15.440 have come from a...
00:47:17.580 not all.
00:47:18.980 I mean,
00:47:19.240 this is,
00:47:19.740 you know,
00:47:20.420 but a large proportion
00:47:21.900 of them
00:47:22.340 have come from
00:47:23.340 a place
00:47:24.580 where they've never
00:47:25.700 had to struggle.
00:47:27.060 Yeah.
00:47:27.200 They've never had
00:47:27.960 to work out
00:47:28.980 how can I get enough
00:47:30.200 money to do this.
00:47:31.800 I'm not saying
00:47:32.400 they're all wealthy
00:47:33.020 or anything like that,
00:47:34.060 but most of them
00:47:35.520 would have come
00:47:35.960 from families
00:47:36.660 that managed okay.
00:47:39.940 James,
00:47:40.500 well,
00:47:40.700 it's been great
00:47:41.240 to chat to you.
00:47:41.940 Thank you for giving us
00:47:42.620 the time.
00:47:43.020 We're going to ask you
00:47:43.700 some questions
00:47:44.180 from our supporters
00:47:44.940 in a second.
00:47:45.600 you said
00:47:48.560 it's what you like,
00:47:49.220 hearing from the people,
00:47:50.120 what you're going
00:47:50.480 to hear from the people.
00:47:51.280 Yeah,
00:47:51.300 you broke character
00:47:52.020 there,
00:47:52.380 mate.
00:47:52.500 Yeah,
00:47:52.700 exactly.
00:47:53.380 The plebs, 0.99
00:47:54.740 no.
00:47:55.180 I thought it was
00:47:55.820 you were going
00:47:56.240 to ask the questions.
00:47:57.140 No,
00:47:57.400 no,
00:47:57.500 we are going
00:47:58.020 to ask the questions
00:47:58.740 that they've submitted.
00:47:59.720 And we've asked
00:48:00.220 you some as well.
00:48:00.900 Yeah,
00:48:01.120 but also,
00:48:01.940 the last question
00:48:03.000 we ask in this
00:48:03.760 section of the interview
00:48:04.620 is what's the one
00:48:05.760 thing we're not
00:48:06.440 talking about
00:48:07.160 as a society
00:48:08.060 that you think
00:48:08.640 we should be?
00:48:10.440 Integration.
00:48:13.400 Tell us more.
00:48:14.480 No,
00:48:14.720 I think we're not
00:48:15.280 just integration.
00:48:17.360 No,
00:48:17.560 no,
00:48:17.840 we are,
00:48:19.560 this country,
00:48:20.320 I've grown up
00:48:21.060 and I've seen
00:48:21.460 it change dramatically.
00:48:23.500 And I've seen
00:48:24.380 it go from,
00:48:25.540 you know,
00:48:26.160 when I was a kid
00:48:27.200 from people
00:48:28.160 having signs up
00:48:29.160 on houses
00:48:29.700 saying no,
00:48:30.660 no,
00:48:31.720 well,
00:48:32.000 I won't say
00:48:32.400 the words
00:48:32.860 they could use
00:48:33.600 you,
00:48:33.840 I really couldn't
00:48:34.380 use them now,
00:48:35.400 to being integrated.
00:48:37.220 and then I've
00:48:39.420 seen it go back
00:48:40.100 the other way
00:48:40.900 where people
00:48:41.460 have come
00:48:41.980 to this country
00:48:42.740 who've not
00:48:43.720 really wanted
00:48:44.180 to come here
00:48:44.840 and who've
00:48:45.320 tried to start
00:48:46.060 their own
00:48:46.740 cliques.
00:48:48.260 Now,
00:48:49.500 British people
00:48:50.240 go abroad
00:48:50.840 to Spain
00:48:51.380 and do the
00:48:51.760 same thing.
00:48:52.680 So,
00:48:52.900 but then they're
00:48:53.540 going there
00:48:53.880 as retirees
00:48:55.480 or holiday,
00:48:56.140 but to want
00:48:57.180 to change it.
00:48:57.660 And I think
00:48:58.040 that is what
00:48:59.240 we haven't done.
00:49:00.260 We haven't tried
00:49:01.240 to integrate
00:49:01.860 people enough.
00:49:03.520 Yet,
00:49:04.520 one of the most
00:49:05.240 favourite foods
00:49:06.420 in this country,
00:49:08.500 it's a curry,
00:49:09.100 isn't it?
00:49:09.780 I love it.
00:49:11.500 One of my
00:49:12.260 greatest pleasures
00:49:13.640 was going to
00:49:14.360 the curry awards
00:49:15.380 when they had them.
00:49:17.020 I used to love it.
00:49:18.200 I absolutely love it.
00:49:19.600 And who are the people
00:49:21.280 who put Christmas
00:49:22.060 decorations up
00:49:23.000 before anybody else?
00:49:24.340 Your local
00:49:24.820 Indian restaurant.
00:49:25.960 And so,
00:49:26.720 some people
00:49:27.180 are trying to integrate,
00:49:28.300 but there are others
00:49:28.880 who don't want to.
00:49:30.600 And it's our
00:49:31.460 fault.
00:49:32.500 When I say our,
00:49:33.520 I hate the term
00:49:34.400 indigenous because,
00:49:35.400 you know,
00:49:35.640 what is indigenous
00:49:36.400 was sort of Germans,
00:49:39.080 Scandinavians,
00:49:40.580 French.
00:49:41.500 We're all mixed up.
00:49:43.360 So,
00:49:43.860 you know,
00:49:44.580 I've got friends
00:49:45.600 from all over the world.
00:49:47.740 And people
00:49:49.320 in certain areas
00:49:50.360 find it very difficult
00:49:52.280 to mix with people
00:49:54.200 that don't come
00:49:55.920 from the same
00:49:56.440 background as themselves.
00:49:57.720 And for some reason
00:49:59.580 that's kicking off again
00:50:00.900 and we have to try
00:50:01.940 and make it
00:50:03.000 better.
00:50:04.280 You know,
00:50:04.800 if you're born
00:50:05.980 and bred in this country,
00:50:07.180 you could be of any color.
00:50:08.460 It doesn't make
00:50:08.940 any difference.
00:50:10.700 And the color
00:50:11.860 of your skin
00:50:12.440 shouldn't be any kind
00:50:13.500 of problem at all.
00:50:14.920 And then I get back
00:50:16.020 when I'm feeling
00:50:16.620 very sort of
00:50:17.420 deep and philosophical.
00:50:20.040 I go back
00:50:21.420 to the religion.
00:50:23.280 You know,
00:50:24.180 I'm called a Christian.
00:50:25.120 I'm not a Christian.
00:50:25.860 I've never been to church.
00:50:27.340 Although I was mutilated
00:50:28.700 as a baby,
00:50:30.260 had the end 1.00
00:50:30.660 of my dick cut off 1.00
00:50:31.560 or whatever they call it. 1.00
00:50:34.020 And,
00:50:34.580 you know,
00:50:35.300 some people
00:50:35.960 in their religions
00:50:36.860 refuse
00:50:38.420 to move,
00:50:40.160 to integrate.
00:50:42.420 And it happens
00:50:43.120 on both sides
00:50:43.860 of those big religions.
00:50:46.180 And I don't know
00:50:46.780 how we get over that.
00:50:48.220 I don't,
00:50:48.880 I don't understand
00:50:50.600 how people can believe
00:50:52.400 in what seems to me
00:50:53.660 to be a fairy story.
00:50:55.280 How people can actually
00:50:56.440 seriously,
00:50:57.540 sensibly believe
00:50:58.900 that there is
00:51:00.040 some character
00:51:00.720 coming back
00:51:01.480 to the planet
00:51:02.400 to decide
00:51:03.820 where we go
00:51:04.520 and what we do later.
00:51:06.780 And if you look
00:51:07.320 right back
00:51:07.840 thousands of years ago
00:51:08.900 when religions were,
00:51:10.040 they were there
00:51:10.540 totally to control
00:51:11.900 the populations
00:51:13.860 that they were
00:51:14.600 in charge of.
00:51:15.380 And none of us,
00:51:16.740 if we look back
00:51:17.280 at our religions
00:51:18.380 and our countries,
00:51:19.440 when we look back
00:51:19.960 at the Crusades,
00:51:20.640 I would love England
00:51:21.500 to change their flag
00:51:23.140 because Crusades
00:51:25.280 were not a great
00:51:25.940 part of history.
00:51:27.880 And I think
00:51:28.700 those two religions
00:51:29.600 are still
00:51:30.220 very much
00:51:31.460 in control
00:51:32.260 in the background.
00:51:33.820 That's a bit deep,
00:51:34.860 isn't it?
00:51:35.360 I'm now obviously
00:51:36.360 going to be
00:51:36.720 an extreme right winger,
00:51:38.340 but I would just
00:51:39.100 like everybody
00:51:39.580 to get on,
00:51:40.820 enjoy a curry,
00:51:42.780 you know,
00:51:43.180 or Chinese 0.86
00:51:45.560 or Japan
00:51:47.340 or whatever,
00:51:47.980 food from out,
00:51:48.560 food is a great
00:51:49.540 leveller.
00:51:51.800 Agreed.
00:51:53.460 Oh dear,
00:51:54.200 that's not good,
00:51:54.880 isn't it?
00:51:55.680 The reason I'm laughing
00:51:57.140 is Francis,
00:51:58.040 everybody in the studio
00:51:59.160 is laughing
00:51:59.640 because everyone
00:52:00.380 knows Francis
00:52:01.140 is obsessed
00:52:02.220 with food.
00:52:03.120 So when he said
00:52:03.920 agreed,
00:52:04.500 I was like,
00:52:05.020 this is the perfect moment.
00:52:05.940 So what did you
00:52:06.500 fancy to eat now?
00:52:08.160 Everything.
00:52:08.740 Oh, everything, mate.
00:52:09.720 I love it all.
00:52:10.900 That's why I have to,
00:52:12.500 like,
00:52:12.700 you wouldn't believe it.
00:52:13.600 In order to quote
00:52:14.300 Louis C.K.,
00:52:15.240 I work out really hard
00:52:16.700 to have a body like this.
00:52:19.440 Right?
00:52:19.980 Because I just
00:52:21.160 love my food.
00:52:23.440 So yeah.
00:52:23.900 On that happy note,
00:52:24.800 we're going to ask you
00:52:25.500 questions from our supporters.
00:52:26.980 James,
00:52:27.280 thank you so much
00:52:27.820 for your time.
00:52:28.240 Good.
00:52:28.420 Cheers.
00:52:28.640 I'd just like to thank
00:52:31.620 Mr. Well
00:52:32.120 for standing up
00:52:32.860 for Israel
00:52:33.420 and Jews in general.
00:52:35.140 But the question is,
00:52:36.260 why protect a country
00:52:37.460 and a people
00:52:38.060 that are historically
00:52:38.760 so hated and demonized?
00:52:40.340 Isn't the stress
00:52:41.260 an enormous health risk
00:52:42.720 for you?