TRIGGERnometry - The State of Britain - Konstantin Kisin & Francis Foster

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00:00:30.000 What worries both of us is that I can't see any real signs of improvement, either culturally, socially, or economically.

00:00:40.180 You know, I don't think people make this point enough, but the people that we're really screwing over this country are the young. 1.00

00:00:46.140 People in this country aren't having enough kids already. You want to make it harder for them? 1.00

00:00:49.380 You want to make it harder for them to get on the housing ladder? 0.98

00:00:51.880 You wouldn't want to be here and be young.

00:00:54.980 What can we learn from America? What are they doing differently? Why are they growing and we're not?

00:00:59.460 I see our country as very much somebody who is an addict. We're addicted to mass immigration. 1.00

00:01:08.460 We're addicted to debt. And we're addicted, like all addicts, to not face up to the truth.

00:01:14.760 Eventually, you're going to hit rock bottom or you die.

00:01:18.300 You've got to stand up for what you believe. Because if you don't, the thing you believe is going to disappear.

00:01:23.120 So, a lot of people in our audience and also our team thought it'd be good for us to have a chat.

00:01:31.960 We did one after our trip to America, reviewing the election and all of that.

00:01:36.200 Obviously, this one will be just as positive.

00:01:38.060 Absolutely. There's so much good stuff to talk about.

00:01:40.880 What is possibly going wrong in the UK at the moment, apart from quite literally everything.

00:01:48.020 It seems at the moment that the UK is in a funk.

00:01:52.120 And that's not actually what worries me. And I know that's not what worries you.

00:01:55.800 What worries both of us is that we're looking at our country, the country where we grew up in,

00:02:02.240 and I can't see any real signs of improvement, either culturally, socially, or economically.

00:02:09.620 And that is a very worrying place to be in, wouldn't you agree?

00:02:14.060 Well, yeah. So, the worrying thing is, obviously, we didn't expect the slave government to be amazing.

00:02:19.540 They're not amazing.

00:02:20.980 The thing that worries me most about it is what they're doing is essentially driving the economy into the floor.

00:02:27.640 And it's inevitable when you raise taxes to such a level that people basically leave or don't start businesses

00:02:33.720 or don't take extra work because it just doesn't make any sense anymore.

00:02:38.140 So, the tax approach that they've taken just seems completely crazy.

00:02:43.320 And then you have to look at the fact that, look, it's early days,

00:02:47.860 but I don't get the sense that the Conservative Party has recovered from its demise of last year.

00:02:55.200 Do you?

00:02:55.840 No, no, not at all.

00:02:58.420 To me, the Tory party are a...

00:03:01.100 I kind of see them, actually, like the Democrat Party in the US.

00:03:06.640 They've betrayed people's trust.

00:03:08.280 They have fundamentally failed.

00:03:09.980 It's actually worse than the Dems.

00:03:11.740 The Dems had four years.

00:03:13.260 This has been 14 years of complete, abject, and total failure.

00:03:19.260 See, I was thinking of doing a joke there about the Tory leader not having dementia,

00:03:23.120 but then I actually had to think who the last Tory leader was because there were so many of them 0.98

00:03:28.700 and they were all equally useless. 0.99

00:03:30.440 Yeah. 0.64

00:03:31.080 I mean, the only thing that we learn from the Tory leaders is that all diversity really gives you 0.99

00:03:38.200 is a bunch of leaders who are all equally crap. 0.99

00:03:40.960 That's it. 1.00

00:03:42.420 Yeah.

00:03:42.700 That's it.

00:03:43.360 And so we just had Kemi Badenoch on the show. 0.99

00:03:45.640 Yeah.

00:03:45.820 And, you know, she's got a very difficult job.

00:03:49.680 I think she's smart.

00:03:51.280 I think Keir Starmer's smart, by the way.

00:03:53.060 People don't like hearing this, but I think the leaders of both parties are pretty smart.

00:03:57.380 I think Kemi's smart.

00:03:58.160 But the job she has of uniting basically the Lib Dems in her party with the reform curious people 0.98

00:04:04.500 in her party just seems very, very difficult.

00:04:07.080 I was talking to a very, very senior member, senior figure in the Conservative Party, and

00:04:15.440 I said to him, we're going to be interviewing Kemi in a week or so.

00:04:20.940 What should I say to her? 1.00

00:04:23.040 He laughed and said the words, she's fucked. 1.00

00:04:28.580 That's what he said. 0.99

00:04:30.360 And for those exact reasons that you've just stated, what you have with the Tory party,

00:04:36.980 and it's a criticism or an observation we've both made about the Labour Party, is you're

00:04:41.860 trying to hold together this broad coalition of people that fundamentally don't belong in

00:04:46.880 the same political party.

00:04:48.640 Well, look, all political parties are coalitions, but it just seems to me that there isn't an

00:04:57.520 understanding on those different wings of the party that if they do not correctly understand

00:05:03.220 why they lost the last election and adjust accordingly, they are also going to lose the

00:05:07.540 next one.

00:05:08.360 And, you know, in the Kemi interview, I told the story about a Tory MP who said to me they

00:05:12.260 lost to the Lib Dems.

00:05:13.820 Well, if that's your attitude, you're just, you're going to get destroyed by reform.

00:05:19.640 That's just a fact.

00:05:20.360 And the other problem is that I'm not, I think that the one thing a lot of politicians haven't

00:05:29.660 caught up to in this country is something that became quite obvious in America, which

00:05:35.560 is the time for hedging your bets and, you know, kind of talking out of both sides of your

00:05:41.880 mouth and having a view that you have privately but not expressing it publicly because you think

00:05:46.540 it's going to offend people or whatever.

00:05:48.100 I just don't think that's the moment we're in.

00:05:50.600 I don't think that's the media environment we're in anymore, really.

00:05:53.580 If, you know, as podcasts like ours become more prominent in the conversation, those same

00:06:00.620 tactics just don't work nearly as well on an hour, two-hour conversation where the presenters

00:06:08.560 are really engaging with you in good faith, but they also expect their questions to be answered.

00:06:13.240 And I don't think, and I think that's true across the political spectrum.

00:06:15.620 I think Nigel Farage is the exception to that.

00:06:18.200 But the reason he's an exception to that is, A, he's not really a politician or hasn't been

00:06:23.060 for a long time, but also because he has the luxury of being an outsider.

00:06:29.760 If he were in the position where he was leading one of the two major parties, he'd be getting

00:06:35.280 asked much more difficult questions as well.

00:06:37.160 And he would either have to take difficult positions.

00:06:40.820 For example, he's never really been properly challenged on his views about the NHS because

00:06:45.780 he knows what most people know, it's not sustainable to have it free at the point of use.

00:06:51.860 He knows that we're going to have to make some kind of adjustment.

00:06:55.120 Has he been pushed enough on that?

00:06:57.360 Well, not so far.

00:06:58.360 But it just seems to me like the moment for political talk is kind of moving into the past.

00:07:08.340 And as conversations move into spaces like this, you're going to have to have politicians

00:07:14.640 who are just prepared to say the truth, even if it's uncomfortable.

00:07:17.540 And if they get criticized for it, they then turn the tables and say, look, I'm just saying

00:07:22.300 what people are thinking.

00:07:23.700 The media has now turned this into some kind of pantomime. 1.00

00:07:27.020 It's very stupid. 1.00

00:07:28.100 Let's ignore them. 1.00

00:07:28.960 Let's just focus on this.

00:07:30.440 But then what you're asking for is politicians to have backbone, integrity and courage.

00:07:34.260 Yes.

00:07:35.480 And we haven't had that for a long time in politics.

00:07:38.180 But look at Trump, right? 0.90

00:07:39.560 You can think Trump is the worst person ever. 0.95

00:07:42.580 He has those things. 0.81

00:07:44.140 Yeah.

00:07:44.780 Now, you may dislike his policy positions, but he was prepared to say what he thinks,

00:07:50.240 to say things that are politically incorrect, but that need saying, to do things that some

00:07:54.640 people aren't going to like and are going to scream about.

00:07:57.020 And, you know, other than Ukraine, when I look at everything that they're doing, I think

00:08:04.740 this is incredible.

00:08:06.260 Yeah.

00:08:06.800 But I think one factor that we're missing in this conversation about Trump is British

00:08:11.040 sensibilities.

00:08:12.560 Yes.

00:08:13.160 But this is the point that I've made a lot, especially privately.

00:08:17.800 The British equivalent to Donald Trump does not have to look like Donald Trump.

00:08:23.400 Donald Trump is a product of American culture.

00:08:26.320 And the thing that offends the sort of avocado toast brigade in the UK about him is the way

00:08:32.540 he talks.

00:08:33.180 Well, guess what?

00:08:34.500 It's kind of how most Americans talk.

00:08:36.280 They're very direct.

00:08:37.400 They're very to the point.

00:08:38.440 They don't mess about.

00:08:40.240 They say things in plain language.

00:08:42.640 You know, it's actually one of the big cultural differences between the UK.

00:08:45.540 Like, even if you look at the way they name certain things, like if we have some kind

00:08:50.420 of weird fruit, we have a Latin name for it, right?

00:08:54.020 Or something like that.

00:08:54.820 They just call it a prickly pear.

00:08:56.320 Yeah.

00:08:56.720 What is it?

00:08:57.220 It's a prickly pear.

00:08:58.140 Yeah.

00:08:58.300 You know, so that kind of simple, direct approach is not necessarily exactly what we need.

00:09:04.820 We don't necessarily need someone who behaves in exactly the way that Trump does.

00:09:08.440 We just need someone who is confident and comfortable in what they believe and is prepared

00:09:12.660 to say, I believe this, even if you don't agree with me.

00:09:15.360 It sounds like what we need is actually a politician who's not afraid to embrace certain

00:09:20.480 conservative values.

00:09:22.340 Well, I don't even look at them as conservative values, to be honest.

00:09:25.460 I don't, I don't, look, you and I have this argument all the time, right?

00:09:30.620 We were walking around London the other day and you went to me, well, people keep saying

00:09:33.760 I'm a conservative and I've been thinking about that a lot.

00:09:37.720 And I was like, there's nothing about what we are advocating for that's conservative.

00:09:41.720 And we had a big argument, which we can reproduce for people if you want.

00:09:44.560 Yeah.

00:09:45.460 I, well, it depends because it depends what you mean by conservatism.

00:09:51.000 But if what you mean by conservatism is wanting to conserve the country, the country that we

00:09:57.040 grew up in, with its values and its culture, if that's conservatism, then I would be, I

00:10:05.940 would find it incredibly difficult to argue against that.

00:10:09.480 If, if, if, if wanting your country to retain the good about it makes you a conservative,

00:10:15.200 then I'd imagine the overwhelming majority of all people are conservative in that sense.

00:10:18.880 Yes. But what I'm talking about from a party political dimension is something else, which

00:10:23.600 is what are the things that you and I really fundamentally believe about this country?

00:10:29.220 We believe that it should have a prosperous economy.

00:10:32.420 We believe that it should have an aspirational mindset.

00:10:35.620 We believe that illegal immigration is wrong and shouldn't be happening. 0.99

00:10:39.400 We believe that this country should want to be influential and powerful in the world and

00:10:44.380 seek to advance its worldview and values around the world.

00:10:49.520 Right.

00:10:50.960 Tony Blair believed all those things.

00:10:52.660 Yeah.

00:10:53.300 All of them.

00:10:54.040 Yes.

00:10:54.440 Tony Blair didn't want illegal immigration.

00:10:56.540 Tony Blair wanted this country to be rich and prosperous.

00:10:58.860 Tony Blair was elected on the promise of things being aspirational.

00:11:02.560 And I'm not a Blair, right?

00:11:03.860 I'm just saying within living memory, mine and yours, not someone who's in their eighties.

00:11:08.560 All the things that you and I think about were consensus beliefs across the political spectrum.

00:11:15.580 When I came to Britain in 1996, I've, I'm tired of restating this net legal immigration into 1.00

00:11:22.540 Britain was 55,000 people.

00:11:24.300 Yeah.

00:11:24.780 And nobody cared about immigration in 1996.

00:11:27.600 You know why?

00:11:28.420 Because it wasn't a problem.

00:11:29.480 British people are very reasonable when it comes to these issues, right?

00:11:33.380 But what's happened is you've had such a mass wave of immigration that Lib Dems, Tories, 1.00

00:11:39.560 a lot of labor people, reform, all feel that both mass immigration and illegal immigration,

00:11:45.300 mass legal immigration and illegal immigration are both too high.

00:11:49.000 Now, does that make you a conservative?

00:11:50.780 I really don't think so.

00:11:52.800 And I'm someone who believes that creative destruction is important, right?

00:11:56.780 This is why I don't think of myself as conservative in that sense, because I think we need to be

00:12:01.760 making progress and progress means letting go of things that no longer work because technology

00:12:06.420 changes, society changes and whatever.

00:12:08.960 What I don't believe is this progressive retardation, which says you've got to take all 1.00

00:12:14.440 the best things about your society and say they're actually the worst things about your

00:12:18.040 society and throw them in the bin.

00:12:19.260 So, to me, this entire decade has not been about right versus left.

00:12:24.660 It's been about progressive insanity versus everybody else.

00:12:28.860 No, I quite agree with you on that one.

00:12:30.660 I think the element that you missed with the Blairite is the mass immigration really started

00:12:34.560 under here.

00:12:35.600 So, but broadly speaking, I'm in agreement with you.

00:12:38.800 I guess for me, the issue is we have not defeated these hyper-liberals, progressive, whatever

00:12:47.800 you want to call them in this country.

00:12:50.400 When I look at our current government, I actually, and people get, they start to give me stink

00:12:57.880 eye when I say this.

00:12:59.720 I actually think Keir Starmer is very competent.

00:13:02.140 And I think he's got a hell of a lot more integrity than the Conservative Party because

00:13:08.000 he actually says what he thinks, by and large, and then he tries to implement the laws.

00:13:14.200 You don't remember how a year ago you didn't know what a woman was?

00:13:17.440 Right.

00:13:18.060 Oh, yeah.

00:13:18.720 Look, compared to, look, all politicians are supine and whatever and bend what they think

00:13:25.680 and whatever else.

00:13:26.560 My point is this.

00:13:27.600 Take freedom of speech.

00:13:28.900 He's been very open that he wants hate speech laws.

00:13:31.220 He's been very open.

00:13:32.900 He did a video with Sadiq Khan talking about Islamophobia and the dangers of hate speech.

00:13:38.540 They're talking, they're talking about having blasphemy laws in this country.

00:13:44.560 It's much better than the Conservatives talked right, governed left.

00:13:48.660 I don't know if it's better.

00:13:50.200 No, it's not better.

00:13:51.020 I'm just saying he's got more integrity.

00:13:52.760 Yeah.

00:13:54.260 Well, look, I think that what they're doing on taxes, on education, all of this other stuff

00:13:58.960 is going to be terrible for this country.

00:14:01.220 And ultimately, that is what matters because that's what's going to make people suffer.

00:14:04.560 Yeah.

00:14:04.980 Right.

00:14:06.240 But yeah, I agree with you.

00:14:07.500 Look, I think the reality is that I think there's been a big loss of faith in both the

00:14:13.160 major political parties in this country.

00:14:15.320 And the question is, is that, is reform, and to some extent the Lib Dems too, are they going

00:14:23.620 to challenge that consensus?

00:14:26.440 No.

00:14:27.040 Well, I don't think the Lib Dems are. 0.99

00:14:28.800 I see the Lib Dems as completely useless.

00:14:32.880 I don't actually know what the point of a Liberal Democrat is. 0.74

00:14:35.500 They've got a lot more seats than reform.

00:14:37.060 Well, that's true.

00:14:37.920 But still, that has answered my question.

00:14:40.660 What is the point of a Liberal Democrat that don't believe in a liberal democracy and campaigned

00:14:45.940 against Brexit once a Brexit referendum?

00:14:48.180 Well, I agree with you. 1.00

00:14:48.960 Their position on Brexit was moronic. 0.99

00:14:50.500 I'm just wondering whether... 0.99

00:14:53.100 See, the big problem with reform is...

00:14:55.980 Well, there are several problems with reform.

00:14:57.600 The most obvious ones is that we don't live in a presidential system like the one that

00:15:02.860 they have in America.

00:15:03.800 Donald Trump needed him and a small team of very influential, well-known people to drive

00:15:10.940 his campaign forward.

00:15:11.980 He had what?

00:15:12.960 Him, RFK, Tulsi, Elon, Vivek, J.D. Vance.

00:15:18.460 Yes.

00:15:18.760 That's basically it?

00:15:19.920 Yes.

00:15:20.320 Of the top tier?

00:15:21.800 Of the top tier.

00:15:23.600 To reform, we're going to have to have several hundred candidates elected as MPs.

00:15:29.380 And look, by all means, they're going to have the turquoise rosette pinned on them.

00:15:34.000 Well, that's not going to necessarily win you an election in a lot of constituencies.

00:15:37.280 You're actually going to have to be an effective campaigner for that position.

00:15:41.820 Where are they going to get 300 people to do that? 0.97

00:15:45.840 It's a very good question.

00:15:46.980 That's problem number one.

00:15:48.240 Yes.

00:15:48.900 Problem number two is, you know, we all know this as things become bigger and more successful.

00:15:54.760 Suddenly, people start caring about who gets the credit and who's this and who's that and

00:16:00.960 who's got how much power.

00:16:02.340 And you already see these murmurings within reform.

00:16:04.980 People are saying, oh, you know, Nigel Farage needs to democratize the party and all this

00:16:09.320 other stuff, which I have to say, as an outside observer, I really don't agree with.

00:16:14.240 If you look at what happened in America, there's no doubt about the fact that Donald Trump is

00:16:19.360 a singular leader in that whole thing.

00:16:22.420 Everything goes through him.

00:16:23.900 And I think if you're in the sort of position where you really have to make this kind of

00:16:27.900 advance, you have to stick with the person who is the head of the organization.

00:16:33.000 No, I completely agree with you.

00:16:34.040 But then don't forget, we're talking about politicians here.

00:16:36.240 Yeah.

00:16:36.900 And, you know, they're not averse to a little bit of the old backstabbing.

00:16:40.520 Yeah.

00:16:40.720 In order to get what they want or get ahead or get to the position of power.

00:16:44.160 That's going to be a big problem for reform going forward.

00:16:46.100 But I have no doubt about that, you know, that's their second challenge.

00:16:49.080 So you've got the first one, which is where do you find DMPs?

00:16:51.580 And the second one is what happens when the party starts doing well and suddenly everyone

00:16:56.500 wants, you know, a bit more power, a bit more credit, you know?

00:16:59.940 Yeah.

00:17:00.540 And that's going to be another challenge for them.

00:17:04.040 No, it's going to be a major challenge for them.

00:17:06.480 And the other thing that they're going to really, really, really struggle with, I think,

00:17:11.700 is, look, people are creatures of habit.

00:17:16.920 They just are.

00:17:17.840 You've got Tory voters who, it doesn't matter what the Tories can do, they could put up 0.98

00:17:23.400 a paedophilic donkey and people would still vote for them. 0.85

00:17:26.540 I didn't know those existed, mate. 0.98

00:17:28.460 Well, I'm sure you'd probably find it within the realms of the Conservative Party, right?

00:17:33.080 And then you've got Labour.

00:17:35.520 There are people who are just entrenched within those parties.

00:17:38.960 It's going to take a lot for them to then say, I'm not going to vote Tory.

00:17:44.520 I'm not going to vote Labour.

00:17:45.960 I'm going to vote reform.

00:17:47.320 And to a lot of people as well, there is a hesitancy around Farage.

00:17:53.140 Yeah.

00:17:53.460 There just is.

00:17:54.800 And they see him as a toxic figure and a toxic influence.

00:17:58.740 Can he be that unifying figure to bring people together and be able to mount a strong

00:18:05.960 challenge for number 10?

00:18:07.600 Well, he's not going to win over the Green Party voters, right?

00:18:10.920 When you talk about uniting figure.

00:18:12.340 But what he needs to unite is the centre and the centre-right.

00:18:15.520 That's what he needs to unite, right?

00:18:16.980 Yeah.

00:18:17.420 But for instance, my dad, who is centre-right, told me that he would never vote for him.

00:18:22.300 What, even now?

00:18:23.340 No.

00:18:24.120 Why not?

00:18:24.240 In his words, he's too right-wing.

00:18:26.460 Broadway's smash hit, The Neil Diamond Musical, A Beautiful Noise, is coming to Toronto.

00:18:33.140 The true story of a kid from Brooklyn destined for something more, featuring all the songs

00:18:37.660 you love, including America, Forever in Blue Jeans, and Sweet Caroline.

00:18:42.400 Like Jersey Boys and Beautiful, the next musical mega hit is here.

00:18:46.440 The Neil Diamond Musical, A Beautiful Noise.

00:18:49.160 April 28th through June 7th, 2026, The Princess of Wales Theatre.

00:18:54.140 Get tickets at mirvish.com.

00:18:56.080 That's interesting.

00:18:59.900 What does he mean by that?

00:19:01.500 He means that he's too right-wing on economics.

00:19:03.900 He doesn't like his view on economics.

00:19:05.700 Well, that is another huge problem for reform, because all the people at the top of the party

00:19:09.600 are all small government people.

00:19:11.760 Yeah.

00:19:12.240 And, you know, Matt Goodwin's been on our show a gazillion times to make this point,

00:19:15.580 which is, you know, Britain is left-wing on economics and right-wing on culture.

00:19:20.040 I've got to be honest with people and say the unpopular thing.

00:19:24.200 Being left-wing on economics isn't going to work.

00:19:27.100 It's not going to work.

00:19:28.960 This European attitude that we have, and I contrast this with America, where they want 0.99

00:19:33.960 to be unleashed, to be free, to do the things that they want to do, to make money, to build

00:19:38.820 a business, to be successful.

00:19:40.900 Europeans, we want to be looked after.

00:19:44.400 I don't see that as an option going forward.

00:19:47.780 That's not the economic climate we're heading into.

00:19:50.260 I can agree with you more.

00:19:51.760 However, you've got to look at it from their point of view, which is, I've always been

00:19:57.000 looked after.

00:19:57.840 I quite like it, actually.

00:19:59.460 It's quite nice.

00:20:00.520 It's quite warm.

00:20:01.140 It's quite comfortable.

00:20:01.960 Tax the rich.

00:20:02.560 Yeah.

00:20:02.940 I want to continue to be looked after.

00:20:04.620 Yeah.

00:20:04.920 But the problem with this is, and this is just a mathematical point, right?

00:20:09.300 Forget about gut policy and policies and politics and everything.

00:20:12.500 Right now, what is happening in this country is, the people at the very top who are paying,

00:20:19.900 people say, you know, the rich should bear the greatest burden and blah, blah, blah.

00:20:23.200 It's all true.

00:20:24.020 I am up for that.

00:20:25.180 The people who are at the top, the people who are earning, you're already struggling.

00:20:28.780 Because it was only the 31st of January, a couple of weeks ago, and your tax bill is

00:20:33.240 not quite what it's been in previous years, has it, Francis?

00:20:35.700 No, no.

00:20:36.520 We're doing all right.

00:20:37.440 Now send us money.

00:20:38.340 I'm getting PTSD, mate.

00:20:39.920 I just remembered it.

00:20:41.060 But look, neither you or I are in the top 1%, I'd imagine.

00:20:45.140 But the top 1% pay so much tax disproportionately to everybody else, right?

00:20:50.400 Like, I think the top 1% pay something like 30% of all the income tax.

00:20:54.700 Yeah.

00:20:55.060 Or all the tax, right?

00:20:56.060 And the top 10% pay 60% of all the tax.

00:20:59.160 Fact check me on these figures, but I think that's right.

00:21:01.420 Right?

00:21:02.520 And what we're doing is we're putting taxes up to such a level,

00:21:05.700 that those of them who can leave or who can take their businesses to other places do.

00:21:09.920 Which is a lot of them.

00:21:10.800 Which is a lot of them.

00:21:11.600 And those that can't, do not invest, do not hire people, do not start new businesses,

00:21:16.420 shelve and mothball plans that they had.

00:21:19.300 So what happens?

00:21:20.080 What happens is there are fewer jobs and there's less tax revenue as a result.

00:21:23.480 So by raising taxes, you're going to kill the productive economy,

00:21:27.820 and you're actually probably going to hurt tax revenues as well.

00:21:31.520 So how are you going to pay for all the social services that you want?

00:21:36.360 The answer is mass immigration. 0.59

00:21:38.820 Is that what you want?

00:21:40.160 Because you can't have all of that.

00:21:41.760 You can't have economic growth while chasing out the rich and destroying productivity and industry.

00:21:49.040 And also when you're in a demographic spiral and you aren't having enough kids.

00:21:53.000 So if you are somebody who wants to be looked after,

00:21:56.940 you've got to recognize either we need a massively growing economy,

00:22:00.100 or we're going to have to continue to import cheap labor from abroad.

00:22:03.580 Is that what you want?

00:22:04.740 The news we consume shapes how we view the world.

00:22:08.280 But what happens when the stories we see are filtered through the lens of bias and hidden agendas?

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00:22:15.980 Ground News is the app I use to cut through the noise and get closer to the truth.

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00:22:41.300 Interestingly, out of 108 sources, only four outlets on the right covered this.

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00:23:27.260 something that I fully support.

00:23:28.540 Well, I don't think that people have woken up to this quite in the way that you describe.

00:23:34.640 But that's what's happening.

00:23:35.820 Yeah.

00:23:35.980 That's the truth.

00:23:37.140 I agree.

00:23:38.360 I agree.

00:23:39.280 And also, there is a punitive, and people are going to get upset with me,

00:23:42.920 but there is a vengeful punitive, and I love British culture,

00:23:47.680 and I love British people, but there is a, one of the dark sides of our culture, 0.53

00:23:52.300 one of the negative aspects, is there is a vengeful punitive side to people who are successful.

00:23:56.940 People who are wealthy, there's a suspicion about it.

00:23:59.760 And it comes down to this.

00:24:01.720 Well, how did they get the money?

00:24:03.060 I bet they screwed someone over to get it.

00:24:05.580 It's not even screwed. 0.95

00:24:07.060 I think screwed is more of a Russian mentality, actually. 0.99

00:24:10.120 Not inaccurate quite often in Russia.

00:24:12.200 I think in Britain, it's because you have a history of the landed gentry.

00:24:15.840 Yeah.

00:24:16.020 And in other words, you have people who are rich because their dad was rich,

00:24:20.820 because his dad was rich, because his dad was rich.

00:24:23.740 And it's not that they screwed someone over.

00:24:26.080 It's that they didn't deserve it.

00:24:28.000 Yeah.

00:24:28.200 It's that they were handed it on a silver platter, right?

00:24:31.880 And they grew up with a silver spoon in their mouth.

00:24:34.780 And that just isn't true of modern Britain.

00:24:37.900 The overwhelming majority of people who are wealthy in this country are wealthy because

00:24:42.540 they've created things that are of value to their fellow human beings that they exchange for money.

00:24:47.720 I agree with you.

00:24:48.660 And there's also this element, and we used to see it in the tabloid newspapers when they were

00:24:52.480 powerful of, you know, you build someone up, you knock them down.

00:24:56.540 And we kind of love to do that.

00:24:58.800 It's that cliche joke or quip where an American sees someone driving in a Ferrari and goes,

00:25:05.380 one day I'm going to drive a Ferrari.

00:25:07.240 And a Brit will see a Ferrari and just key it.

00:25:10.540 And I think there's something inside of us where we want to do that to people we perceive

00:25:17.080 as more successful and wealthier than ourselves.

00:25:19.360 And we want to punish.

00:25:20.680 But the reality is, if you want to create a successful, wealthy, prosperous nation, you

00:25:27.440 can't have that attitude.

00:25:28.760 No, you can't.

00:25:29.160 You've got to look at that person and go, right, so he's achieved X.

00:25:33.400 I want to achieve X.

00:25:35.120 What has he done?

00:25:36.300 That's not going to say that it's going to work out for you or that you're going to buy

00:25:40.040 the Ferrari.

00:25:40.680 But what it is going to do is it means that you're going to improve your life and you

00:25:45.240 are going to get better, wealthier, more successful as a result.

00:25:48.100 That's how private helicopters just come out to pick us up.

00:25:50.500 I don't know if people will be able to pick up a helicopter just flew by.

00:25:56.840 So that's why you're exactly right.

00:25:59.600 And that's why I say this thing about being left-wing on economics.

00:26:04.260 I just, I don't think there's, the Tories were right when they said this or whoever,

00:26:08.840 or the Labour, I don't even remember who said it anymore because it was so long ago.

00:26:12.360 Whoever said there's no money left is correct.

00:26:14.500 We're running debt above GDP levels, right?

00:26:18.720 Our economy is stagnating.

00:26:23.120 We're raising taxes, which is going to depress economic activity.

00:26:26.980 So this idea that we can just pump more and more and more money into public services,

00:26:32.440 I just don't think it's true.

00:26:34.280 And the problem is, as you say, that our attitude is not conducive to understanding this.

00:26:39.460 Because if you remember, when the Tories tried to do austerity, I use inverted commas because

00:26:44.720 they really didn't cut by anything like what was needed.

00:26:49.620 And everyone was up in arms saying they killed people, the policing, you know.

00:26:53.660 And it's true. 0.56

00:26:54.200 They did have to reduce certain things.

00:26:55.700 But, you know, I think there are two possible options for salvation from all of this.

00:27:02.500 And both of them we're seeing in America at the same time.

00:27:05.440 One of them is that you have, we just have to accept that whatever you think about saving

00:27:12.960 the planet or whatever, what we're doing isn't going to save it.

00:27:16.380 Net zero is not going to save the planet because we are responsible for 2% of global carbon emissions.

00:27:21.140 Even if we put that at zero and all slit our throats, it's not going to change anything, right?

00:27:26.180 We're not achieving anything.

00:27:27.720 We're just making ourselves poor.

00:27:29.100 And you can't run an economy without cheap energy, okay?

00:27:32.380 So drill baby drill is the right policy.

00:27:36.300 It sounds crass because it's American, but it's exactly right. 1.00

00:27:40.620 That's one.

00:27:41.660 The other thing is you're going to have to take not just a hammer, but a cleaver to government

00:27:47.980 waste, and not just government waste, but perfectly well-intentioned and perhaps useful

00:27:52.540 project that we just can't afford anymore.

00:27:55.020 And that means cutting most of the civil service, cutting a lot of the government bureaucracy,

00:27:59.800 cutting the quangos, the NGOs, the everything, and thereby freeing money up for investment

00:28:04.780 and also freeing money up for paying off the huge debts that we're running.

00:28:08.520 You know, I don't think people make this point enough, but the people that we're really

00:28:12.540 screwing over this country are the young. 1.00

00:28:14.500 Look, this whole debt situation, that's screwing them over.

00:28:20.540 The fact mass immigration, who's that?

00:28:23.360 That's screwing them over.

00:28:24.400 That's depressing their wages, and that's vastly reducing their chances of getting a job.

00:28:31.480 And if you're a young person, chances are you don't have ties to this country, really.

00:28:37.560 You've got maximum mobility.

00:28:39.620 When is the chance that you can go abroad?

00:28:41.760 The best time for you is when you're young.

00:28:43.680 So if I was graduating university or finishing a trade and I was in my early 20s, you'd look

00:28:50.020 around at this place and go, why would I stay here?

00:28:53.540 What is it offering me?

00:28:54.820 What is this country actually giving me?

00:28:57.440 And all it means is that I am going to be working, even if I got, this is something that's

00:29:03.740 going to trigger people.

00:29:04.480 50 grand a year at the moment, 50,000 pounds a year, is seen as a good salary in the UK.

00:29:10.000 Very good salary.

00:29:10.900 But it's not a good salary.

00:29:12.080 No.

00:29:13.420 You can't, if you factor in rent...

00:29:15.760 If you're in London.

00:29:16.880 Yeah.

00:29:17.220 Up north somewhere, 50 grand is a good salary.

00:29:19.200 Yeah.

00:29:19.900 Because you've got nothing to spend.

00:29:21.160 Yeah, exactly.

00:29:21.800 You know, but for a lot of young people, but 50 grand, when you think of the taxes that

00:29:30.680 you pay...

00:29:31.460 And people are going to say, oh, look at Constantine and Francis, they're making...

00:29:34.560 No, that's not what we're saying.

00:29:35.960 You go to Australia.

00:29:37.260 I have a friend whose wife is a pediatric nurse.

00:29:40.800 Yeah.

00:29:41.600 Right.

00:29:43.040 When she moved to Australia, not to America, to Australia, she doubled her salary the day

00:29:47.780 she arrived.

00:29:48.220 Yeah.

00:29:49.100 People in Australia make way more money than we do.

00:29:51.680 People in America would make way more money.

00:29:53.600 Yeah.

00:29:54.460 It always blows my mind.

00:29:57.300 When I went over to America, I didn't realise lorry drivers get paid over 100K a year.

00:30:02.620 And then you factor in bonuses and overtimes.

00:30:05.560 It's serious money that you can raise a family with.

00:30:08.620 Same in Australia.

00:30:09.920 Yeah.

00:30:10.040 And you're looking at the wages that people get paid here.

00:30:12.820 I was talking to a couple of American lads, and they worked, I can't remember, for something

00:30:18.500 like KPMG, one of these big city firms.

00:30:21.040 And they said, in America, they laugh at what they pay people in this country.

00:30:26.220 They actually hand it round the office and go, here you go, boys.

00:30:29.520 Look at this.

00:30:30.060 This is hilarious.

00:30:31.540 So if you're young and you've got this salary, which everyone tells you is great, but actually

00:30:36.760 means that you're taxed up to your eyeballs.

00:30:39.020 You're never going to buy a house.

00:30:40.040 You're never going to buy a house.

00:30:41.320 And you just about make it to the end of the month whilst working 60, 50 hour weeks. 0.99

00:30:46.260 You were quite entitled to say, this is a crap deal. 0.97

00:30:50.400 Well, see, this is a funny thing is we started out with this conversation with me denying 0.99

00:30:54.780 being a conservative, which I still do.

00:30:56.580 But then it's clear that what we're advocating is for is that you need to be right wing on

00:31:00.180 culture and right wing on economics.

00:31:02.900 But look, look, everything is a slider in these things, right?

00:31:06.400 It's not like there are times when you need to raise taxes a little bit and you need to

00:31:11.620 more government investing, investment in certain things.

00:31:13.920 There are times when you need to cut taxes and do the opposite.

00:31:17.560 There are times when you need more immigration.

00:31:19.400 There are times when you need less immigration.

00:31:20.980 I just it just seems to me that we've been driving the car and it's been veering off to

00:31:26.540 the left for so long.

00:31:27.840 What's required now is a hard yank to the right.

00:31:30.440 Now, you want to stay in the middle of the road.

00:31:32.940 But to get to the middle of the road, you're really going to have to make an adjustment.

00:31:36.980 Um, that's why I don't think that what we are, what we are is right wing or conservative.

00:31:42.960 I just think we recognize that in order for the car to be in the sensible middle position,

00:31:47.320 you have to stop it from veering off this far to the left.

00:31:50.340 And if you look at both culture and economics in this country, we have gone so far to the 0.97

00:31:55.120 left, so far to the left on all of that, on, on all the cultural issues, on the fucking 0.97

00:32:00.500 trans thing, on the gender thing, on DEI, on mass immigration, on illegal immigration, 0.98

00:32:06.180 all of that stuff, but also now on economics.

00:32:08.960 I mean, the tax burden is unreal, right?

00:32:12.540 And this isn't about me and you wanting to buy another car or whatever.

00:32:17.800 This is about the fact that when you don't have businesses in your country, you don't

00:32:21.660 have jobs.

00:32:22.440 And when you don't have jobs, people not only don't have work, but they also don't pay

00:32:26.080 the taxes.

00:32:26.740 And so your tax revenue goes down and then you really are screwed.

00:32:29.940 And you want to something else as well?

00:32:31.740 When things go bad, that is when you get riots, right?

00:32:35.240 Like, do you think that if we were living through a 90s style economic boom, that those

00:32:40.980 riots would have happened last year, even with all the terrorism and all the other stuff

00:32:44.340 that's going on?

00:32:45.320 I don't think so.

00:32:46.500 I don't think people who have meaningful jobs and are happy because they can buy a house 0.99

00:32:50.400 are going to go and smash shit up. 0.97

00:32:52.080 I just don't, even if they're really angry about stuff. 0.94

00:32:55.060 Because ultimately what this comes down to is our GDP per capita is still below what it

00:32:59.860 was before the great financial crisis, right?

00:33:01.960 You're going to have to do something about the economy and tinkering with tax rates while

00:33:07.020 committing ourselves to reducing our energy output and all of this stuff.

00:33:11.960 It's just not going to work.

00:33:13.680 No.

00:33:14.380 It's not going to work.

00:33:15.480 No.

00:33:15.960 And everyone knows it.

00:33:17.700 I don't think they do.

00:33:19.120 I don't think they do.

00:33:20.020 I think, I think the people who know, no, but I think, okay, Donald Rumsfeld, but I think

00:33:28.900 there's a lot of people, particularly younger people who buy all of the climate stuff.

00:33:35.060 And I think a lot of it, they're in dreamland and they don't see the connection between these

00:33:41.300 green policies that we're pursuing and the outrageous amounts that we pay on our energy

00:33:46.960 bills.

00:33:47.300 I don't think they make that connection.

00:33:49.280 But a lot of them don't know.

00:33:50.240 You're right.

00:33:50.960 In fact, I think the center and the center right has been so terrible at making the argument

00:33:58.000 on this that I think if you said to most people, what do you think the cost of net zero is?

00:34:04.940 Do you know what I think the most common answer would be?

00:34:07.100 Zero.

00:34:08.200 I think they'd be surprised there was a cost.

00:34:10.280 Yeah.

00:34:11.020 And yet it's probably one of the most expensive things that we're doing or going to do.

00:34:14.860 And it's not a cost just in terms of money itself.

00:34:18.120 We can't make our own steel that's military grade.

00:34:22.820 So if you can't, all these same people bang on about how we need to support Ukraine.

00:34:29.880 How are you going to give Ukraine weapons if you don't have steel?

00:34:33.220 And if you think about the major problems that are facing this country, come from deindustrialization.

00:34:41.040 If you go to a lot of towns where the industry and therefore the soul has been ripped out of their communities,

00:34:46.740 it's because of this.

00:34:48.280 Thanks, Margaret.

00:34:49.520 Thanks, Maggie.

00:34:50.280 Yeah.

00:34:50.680 And if you all you have to do is step out of London and go to these places.

00:34:55.160 It's tragic and it's sad.

00:34:58.500 And people there have given up.

00:35:00.760 That's what they've done.

00:35:01.940 They've given up and they're living a life where they're going from welfare check to welfare check to welfare check.

00:35:08.180 And it's awful because what you've done is you've demoralized someone and you've removed their agency.

00:35:14.600 I don't care what anyone says.

00:35:15.840 No one wants to live like that.

00:35:17.120 OK, there's a small subset of people who don't want to do anything.

00:35:22.040 But the vast majority of people don't want that.

00:35:24.280 Who wants that to live a life like that? 1.00

00:35:27.420 It's dehumanizing.

00:35:29.160 And look, I believe a lot of this is a cultural mindset thing that could, you know, we have young people working for us.

00:35:36.680 Right.

00:35:37.040 And with the exception of one or two.

00:35:38.960 Right.

00:35:39.320 They're pretty good.

00:35:40.140 Yeah.

00:35:40.480 They're driven and ambitious and work hard and want opportunities and want to advance themselves.

00:35:46.540 Right.

00:35:47.280 I think there are millions and millions of people like that in this country.

00:35:50.940 But they need to have the opportunity to work for companies that have that same mindset that are going to give them those opportunities.

00:35:58.940 And in order for that to happen, we're just going to have to change the way we do things.

00:36:03.040 You know, we a lot of I was talking to John Anderson on his show about this.

00:36:06.920 You know, when a lot of the time we think about Britain and its connection with the rest of the Anglosphere as a one way thing, like we set up Australia, we set up New Zealand, we, you know, we gave rise to the United States and all of this other stuff.

00:36:21.780 I really think we need to start thinking about it as a two way membrane.

00:36:25.140 What can we learn from America?

00:36:27.400 What are they doing differently?

00:36:28.700 Why are they growing and we're not?

00:36:30.300 Right.

00:36:30.560 What can we do to take some of the things that work and bring them here?

00:36:37.020 That's what we need to be thinking about.

00:36:38.640 And there's also things that we export to other places and they think are really good and valuable.

00:36:43.200 That's how we should be looking at it.

00:36:44.800 And let's be honest.

00:36:45.640 America has become what Britain used to be, which is the center of Western civilization. 0.69

00:36:49.520 We are on the periphery now and it's our job to look at them and do what we're already doing anyway.

00:36:55.040 We already drink their soft drinks and watch their movies.

00:36:59.260 Why don't we actually take some of the stuff that works, too?

00:37:02.080 I couldn't agree with you more.

00:37:03.680 I really couldn't agree with you more because to me, this feels like it's going to become existential pretty soon if it's not already.

00:37:11.540 Yeah.

00:37:11.620 We cannot keep going down this path.

00:37:13.960 We cannot keep going down this path of continually borrowing, not investing in our young people, not taxing them to within an inch of their lives, giving them no hope whatsoever.

00:37:29.180 Why would you wouldn't want to be here and be young?

00:37:32.680 And if that is the case, then what you're doing is essentially consigning a future generation to the scrap heap. 0.63

00:37:40.200 Yeah.

00:37:40.480 And that's a tragedy.

00:37:41.460 And also, as we know, we've got an episode of Dr. Paul Morland coming out about demographics.

00:37:48.140 People in this country aren't having enough kids already. 0.84

00:37:50.220 You want to make it harder for them?

00:37:51.540 You want to make it harder for them to get on the housing ladder? 0.98

00:37:53.900 I mean, our producer, we can't get him to propose to his missus.

00:37:56.800 Exactly.

00:37:57.280 Let alone have a baby.

00:37:58.280 Yeah.

00:37:59.580 What are you going to do, Jack?

00:38:00.860 Yeah, exactly.

00:38:01.820 When are you going to up your game?

00:38:03.140 Yeah.

00:38:04.000 Yeah.

00:38:04.440 He said no comment.

00:38:05.320 This is the kind of defeatism that we're dealing with.

00:38:07.660 Exactly.

00:38:08.500 Where's your...

00:38:08.900 And if you're watching his missus, I don't know your name, he gets paid pretty well.

00:38:13.000 So, you know.

00:38:13.620 Don't believe what he tells you.

00:38:14.520 Don't believe what he tells you.

00:38:15.460 Although, to be fair, as we just said, he gets taxed up to his eyeballs.

00:38:18.760 So it probably doesn't take some about 20 quid a month.

00:38:20.960 Yeah.

00:38:21.820 But no.

00:38:22.520 Which is all that he deserves.

00:38:24.380 And...

00:38:24.980 But if you're young, you wouldn't want to be here.

00:38:29.900 And young people are the ones who have kids. 0.67

00:38:32.500 That's not a controversial statement.

00:38:34.160 No.

00:38:34.640 No.

00:38:35.120 And so, demographically, we're just going to screw ourselves even more.

00:38:39.120 Yeah.

00:38:39.320 So we're not going to have people to come in and work.

00:38:42.400 So what are you going to do?

00:38:43.600 You've got to import them.

00:38:44.860 Because otherwise, there's literally nobody to do any work.

00:38:48.580 And then, we've spoken about this with Nigel and other people, and Fraser Nelson, we have

00:38:56.000 got a very sizable percentage of the population who are registered as disabled and sick.

00:39:02.760 It's a pretty unhealthy, toxic combination.

00:39:09.340 Yeah.

00:39:10.260 Which...

00:39:10.940 So I transition from lefty comedians to...

00:39:14.360 Right-wing influencers.

00:39:15.280 Right-wing influencers is complete.

00:39:17.280 But I don't know what else to say.

00:39:20.080 If anyone can explain to me why we're wrong and what we're saying here, I'd be...

00:39:24.240 I never wanted to be a right-wing influencer.

00:39:26.540 That wasn't what I set out to be at all.

00:39:30.100 But all you and I have done throughout the seven years we've been doing the show is we've

00:39:34.740 looked at the world as we see it.

00:39:37.580 I'm sure our filters are not perfect.

00:39:39.620 No one's filters are.

00:39:41.140 And try to call it play-by-play as we see it.

00:39:44.260 Yeah.

00:39:44.500 Right?

00:39:45.660 And what that's led us to is the realization that the left has become something else,

00:39:52.380 not what it was when we were on the left. 0.98

00:39:54.760 And the mainstream right isn't really that much different and totally useless and incompetent. 0.93

00:40:04.920 And a lot of them will privately say, oh, yeah, you're totally right, but not do anything 0.96

00:40:08.860 when it comes to...

00:40:09.480 And look, they've all got a great excuse.

00:40:11.520 The civil service, their colleagues, the this, the that, and whatever.

00:40:14.880 I don't blame them.

00:40:15.860 I'm not saying I would do a better job.

00:40:17.700 But the ultimate reality is if you can't vote your way out of this by voting for the

00:40:23.740 major parties, people are going to start voting for other parties, or as we're seeing with

00:40:28.120 young people, they're going to start to say, you keep banging on about democracy.

00:40:33.840 What's good about it?

00:40:35.220 What's good about it?

00:40:36.560 Show me.

00:40:37.140 Show me in my life what's good about democracy.

00:40:40.120 I don't like what's happening in my country right now.

00:40:42.660 We are one of the richest, most powerful countries in the world still.

00:40:47.720 And I can't vote my way out of this.

00:40:49.700 I can't get out of this.

00:40:51.000 So what reason do they have to believe that democracy is good?

00:40:55.360 Yeah.

00:40:55.720 Right?

00:40:57.200 And that to me is the huge challenge.

00:41:01.120 You know, we had this conversation with Kemi right at the end of the interview.

00:41:05.920 And I think it's really important to say this.

00:41:07.520 We can't keep saying to people, you know, democracy, liberalism, blah, blah, blah, when

00:41:14.000 those things are not delivering what people want.

00:41:16.860 What I never signed up to an ideology.

00:41:22.720 I just think I want my country to be prosperous.

00:41:25.640 I want people in it to be happy, to have a sense of community.

00:41:28.580 And I want the leaders to be accountable to the people.

00:41:31.480 In other words, for them to do the things that they promise.

00:41:34.480 Have we had that?

00:41:35.460 No.

00:41:35.920 No.

00:41:36.100 As I said to Kemi when we interviewed her, and to quote her in a speech, you know, we

00:41:43.380 talked right and governed left.

00:41:44.720 Yeah.

00:41:44.960 So what does that effectively mean?

00:41:46.600 It means that you gaslit a nation by promising them that you're going to do something and

00:41:51.760 doing the exact opposite.

00:41:54.180 And tell me that that is not going to affect people and damage their view of democracy

00:42:00.080 and their faith in the entire system.

00:42:03.080 You can only do that to people for so long.

00:42:05.240 It's like a relationship.

00:42:06.720 If people tell you one thing and do another, eventually, it doesn't matter what any type

00:42:10.700 of relationship, friendship, business, romantic, you're going to go, I cannot trust this person.

00:42:18.160 This person does not respect me.

00:42:20.140 I cannot be in this relationship with them.

00:42:22.780 And that's rapidly where we're approaching.

00:42:25.100 You know, Labour can talk about a landslide victory, and in some ways they did.

00:42:29.220 But you look at the actual turnout for people for Labour, it was woeful.

00:42:33.520 It was woeful.

00:42:34.520 And that's really worrying.

00:42:36.320 Because what that's saying is people are going, I have no faith in this system.

00:42:41.620 And you can't carry on with that.

00:42:43.880 That can only carry on for so long before something ugly happens.

00:42:47.760 Yeah.

00:42:50.260 Got you depressed there, didn't I?

00:42:51.560 You have.

00:42:53.140 But we're going to have to bounce off the bottom is what's going to have to happen here.

00:42:58.840 And my, if there is a sense of optimism to be found, is I think things are going to get so bad,

00:43:06.340 people aren't going to be able to ignore it anymore.

00:43:09.920 And, you know, we were joking around about this.

00:43:14.220 But if you had blackouts in this country, people would suddenly start asking questions about net zero.

00:43:19.780 They would.

00:43:20.180 And I think, I genuinely think the only way these things are going to get better is if they get a lot worse first.

00:43:32.280 I don't see that.

00:43:33.620 Otherwise, that, we talked about your dad saying, well, you know, he's too right-wing, we can't have this, we can't have that.

00:43:40.120 That mindset is going to continue.

00:43:42.980 And people would just say, oh, the government's incompetent.

00:43:46.100 It's not about government incompetence at this point.

00:43:48.600 That's not what's happening.

00:43:49.580 The whole mindset is wrong.

00:43:51.980 Yeah.

00:43:52.140 It's just wrong.

00:43:53.320 Our entire politics is infested with this rot.

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00:45:14.480 I see our country as very much somebody who is an addict.

00:45:22.100 We're addicted to mass immigration. 1.00

00:45:25.140 We're addicted to debt.

00:45:27.740 And we're addicted, like all addicts, to not face up to the truth.

00:45:31.560 And we've been lying to ourselves because that's what addicts do.

00:45:35.000 We just lie to ourselves day in, day out so that we can justify our own terrible habits.

00:45:41.500 Eventually, you're going to hit rock bottom or you die.

00:45:44.880 Those are your two choices.

00:45:46.600 So what are you going to do?

00:45:47.360 Hit rock bottom and change?

00:45:49.640 And I've seen plenty of people change and transform their lives and go from being someone deeply, deeply broken to being outrageously successful.

00:45:59.820 That's option A.

00:46:01.000 Or there's option B, which is that you die.

00:46:03.580 And pretty soon, we're going to be faced with those two options.

00:46:07.000 I don't know about that.

00:46:08.340 I don't know that we're going to be faced with the option of dying.

00:46:11.200 I think most people are going to muddle through.

00:46:13.520 And as long as they can muddle through, they won't take this seriously.

00:46:16.760 That's the concern.

00:46:17.660 No, but the point is, eventually, you come to the fork in the road.

00:46:21.300 Eventually.

00:46:22.680 Other than blackouts, let's say, how do you come to that fork in the road?

00:46:25.780 You're not going to.

00:46:26.200 We become economically bankrupt.

00:46:29.240 We can no longer afford certain things.

00:46:31.600 All of a sudden, infrastructure starts visibly crumbling.

00:46:35.940 It is visibly crumbling.

00:46:36.820 Well, it's going to get worse.

00:46:38.280 Yeah, but then we just make a joke about it.

00:46:39.800 That's the problem.

00:46:41.160 Would you go, oh, the trains, they're late again.

00:46:43.000 Oh, ha ha, British trains.

00:46:44.300 But it becomes more serious than trains being late.

00:46:46.540 Like what?

00:46:47.460 It becomes things like we have blackouts,

00:46:49.640 and then a generator fails in a hospital,

00:46:52.200 and then 20 people die in an ICU.

00:46:57.340 That level.

00:46:58.020 Like Venezuela level.

00:46:59.820 That, when it gets to, when the dead aren't getting collected in the streets,

00:47:03.420 when the rubbish isn't getting collected,

00:47:05.560 when people are looking around and going,

00:47:07.360 what the hell is going on here?

00:47:08.640 I think that's what it would take for people to change.

00:47:11.840 I just think most people are living in cloud cuckoo land in this country.

00:47:16.060 I really do.

00:47:16.800 I think they're completely unaware.

00:47:19.000 And that's where the idea, or we just, you know,

00:47:21.880 the government needs to look after us a bit more.

00:47:24.380 Now, I wish it could, but that ain't the reality on the ground.

00:47:30.960 The reality is we've maxed out our credit card,

00:47:33.740 and we don't have any more money.

00:47:36.860 And either you're going to have to cut spending,

00:47:39.020 or you're going to have to grow your way out of it.

00:47:40.520 Now, I think, I just don't see,

00:47:43.480 I think you're going to have to grow your way out of it

00:47:45.060 and cut a lot of waste,

00:47:46.560 and a lot of things that are nice to have when you can afford them,

00:47:50.180 but you can't afford them anymore.

00:47:51.420 But that's going to be painful for a lot of people,

00:47:55.400 you know, at a personal and ideological level.

00:47:58.740 A lot of people don't want us to see us cut foreign aid.

00:48:02.500 And I don't want to see us cut foreign aid

00:48:04.700 if it's making a positive impact.

00:48:07.000 But that might be what you have to do.

00:48:08.920 I give quite a lot of my income to charity,

00:48:11.900 but if my income was to go down by 50%,

00:48:14.140 I'd probably give less.

00:48:15.900 It's not because I become less charitable.

00:48:17.760 It's because I'm balancing up the reality of my spending and income.

00:48:24.760 Yeah?

00:48:25.620 That's, I think, where we are.

00:48:27.060 We just, I don't think people realise

00:48:28.480 we're just not as rich as we used to be.

00:48:30.360 We're not as rich as we used to be.

00:48:32.380 And also, there's the older generation

00:48:36.360 who've become used to a certain way of living,

00:48:39.000 and they've become very, very used to government being a certain way.

00:48:42.320 And as a result of the fact that there are more old people in this country 1.00

00:48:46.200 than young people,

00:48:47.400 and also because old people are more likely to vote,

00:48:49.960 politicians pander to old people.

00:48:52.200 Understandably so.

00:48:53.500 But there's only so long that you can continue ignoring young people

00:48:58.500 and essentially prioritising older people.

00:49:02.240 You can't keep doing that.

00:49:05.820 You can't keep, because they're the future.

00:49:07.620 They're the future.

00:49:08.340 And you can't, and I use this word, and I use it accurately,

00:49:11.140 you can't keep betraying young people.

00:49:13.440 If you look at COVID, what was COVID?

00:49:16.700 But protecting the older and just saying to the young people, tough.

00:49:23.460 And you can't keep doing that.

00:49:25.820 And unless you don't care about the backlash,

00:49:28.820 and there will be a backlash of some sort.

00:49:30.360 Well, we see with young men in particular,

00:49:33.720 the reform did incredibly well.

00:49:35.960 Yeah.

00:49:36.240 And it's polling very well with them.

00:49:38.500 And it makes sense for all sorts of reasons.

00:49:40.820 It makes sense.

00:49:42.280 The other potential positive is,

00:49:45.380 what's happening in America is going to be a very big contrast.

00:49:48.500 Yeah.

00:49:49.540 And to the extent that we can...

00:49:51.700 See, I often think that you and I are genuinely in a very privileged position,

00:49:55.660 is that we do get to travel a lot and see other parts of the world

00:49:58.540 in a way that most people don't have the opportunity to.

00:50:03.260 And they therefore do not know what it's like when you're on the ground in America.

00:50:10.780 There is a sense of optimism like you haven't seen.

00:50:14.140 There is a sense of opportunity like you haven't seen.

00:50:17.580 There's a sense of ambition that you haven't seen.

00:50:19.820 There's a sense of our country is on the right path now.

00:50:23.080 And we're going to start businesses, we're going to make money,

00:50:26.880 we're going to have families, we're going to buy all of this stuff.

00:50:31.120 Things are now possible.

00:50:32.220 That's the sense, right?

00:50:34.660 And how do you succeed without that?

00:50:38.160 Think about...

00:50:39.000 And it's a very un-British thing to say,

00:50:41.140 but still think about it.

00:50:43.700 Do you think that...

00:50:45.600 I nearly said Man United,

00:50:46.940 but Man United haven't been successful for a long time.

00:50:49.000 But do you think an elite football team goes on the pitch

00:50:54.600 and succeeds if they think,

00:50:58.160 yeah, you know, we'll give it a go, we'll see what happens, mate.

00:51:02.080 Yeah, yeah, we'll give it our best.

00:51:03.640 No.

00:51:04.540 If you want to succeed,

00:51:05.700 you have to go on the pitch with the belief in yourself

00:51:08.400 that you, your team, the thing that you stand for

00:51:12.360 is a good thing that you believe

00:51:14.100 and you want that thing to succeed.

00:51:15.460 You're working together with other people.

00:51:16.840 You have to have that attitude for any group of people,

00:51:20.380 whether that's a team or a nation or a business

00:51:22.660 or a community to be successful.

00:51:24.380 They have to believe in themselves and in the mission.

00:51:27.080 Absolutely they do.

00:51:28.440 And we have to bring that attitude

00:51:30.660 out of ourselves in this country.

00:51:33.320 I really think that.

00:51:34.300 And one of the things that I find so sad

00:51:36.860 is when you see young people

00:51:38.280 and they talk about this country

00:51:40.160 and they say it's terrible.

00:51:42.540 And, you know, the British,

00:51:43.600 Britain hasn't done anything for the world.

00:51:45.760 And what has Britain given the world?

00:51:48.280 And you go, you go,

00:51:50.820 I remember when I used to go to Venezuela as a kid

00:51:52.900 and the moment I told people that I was from London,

00:51:56.540 the look on their face,

00:51:57.800 they'd be like, oh my God, I love the music.

00:51:59.800 You know, the bands, the culture, the art.

00:52:02.820 They would be excited.

00:52:04.560 They wanted to talk.

00:52:05.440 What was London like?

00:52:07.100 You know, that you could see their eyes light up.

00:52:09.100 And it's so heartbreaking to see this generation

00:52:12.020 who've been effectively demoralized

00:52:14.660 by the boomers and late Gen X.

00:52:19.860 And there's just no hope.

00:52:22.540 There's no hope.

00:52:23.560 There's no passion.

00:52:24.840 And it's sad because if you're not going to have hope,

00:52:28.420 passion, ambition when you're young,

00:52:30.960 then when are you going to have it?

00:52:34.040 Well, this is why I think it's very important

00:52:35.620 for us to tell people the truth.

00:52:38.920 The truth is for a very, very long time,

00:52:42.740 you have been lied to.

00:52:44.060 You've been lied to about your history.

00:52:46.560 You've been told that your society is racist 0.98

00:52:49.220 and sexist and misogynistic and evil in every other way.

00:52:53.640 And that's not to say that these things don't exist

00:52:56.460 in Western societies.

00:52:57.460 It's not to say they don't exist in British society.

00:53:00.200 But on those metrics,

00:53:02.100 Britain and other Western countries lead the world, 0.98

00:53:06.500 if you are a black woman or you're gay or you're trans, 0.97

00:53:09.920 where would you rather live than in Britain, 0.97

00:53:12.960 in Canada, in America, in Australia, in New Zealand?

00:53:15.480 There is no better place.

00:53:17.160 And so we have been demonized

00:53:19.620 on the basis of something

00:53:22.120 that we are actually leading the world in,

00:53:24.340 in terms of tolerance and inclusivity

00:53:26.940 and all these things.

00:53:28.040 So the first thing I think we have to do

00:53:29.860 is just acknowledge that we have been lied to.

00:53:33.400 The lies about our history,

00:53:34.960 the lies about people like Winston Churchill,

00:53:36.920 who is a hero, who saved this country,

00:53:39.140 all of the lies about that.

00:53:42.020 We have to, this is one of the reasons

00:53:43.400 we had so many historians on

00:53:44.820 to talk about things like slavery.

00:53:47.660 Slavery is portrayed as Britain's original sin,

00:53:49.980 when the truth is that slavery was practiced

00:53:52.520 by every great civilization in history

00:53:54.480 and Britain was the first empire in history to end it.

00:53:57.520 The question we should be asking is not

00:53:59.800 why are we so evil

00:54:01.040 or why were our ancestors so evil?

00:54:02.620 The question we should be asking is

00:54:03.820 what was it about Britain

00:54:06.340 that caused people to want to end slavery 0.98

00:54:09.100 and to realize that it's evil

00:54:10.420 when everybody else still thought it was good?

00:54:12.620 Right?

00:54:12.900 Those are the questions we should be asking.

00:54:14.640 And so the first thing we have to say is

00:54:16.440 our history on balance is very good.

00:54:19.260 Our values on balance are very good.

00:54:21.020 That's why millions of people want to come here.

00:54:23.100 And you and I, you know,

00:54:25.680 neither of us has got a PhD in history or philosophy,

00:54:29.900 but you don't have to know why honey is sweet

00:54:34.000 to observe that all the bears flock to it

00:54:36.040 when they see it, right?

00:54:37.140 And that's what's happening.

00:54:38.400 Human beings seem to love Western societies.

00:54:42.240 Maybe that's a sign that they're good, right?

00:54:44.580 That's what we should be saying.

00:54:45.780 And I think this self-loathing thing,

00:54:47.720 we're just going to have to let it go.

00:54:49.540 We have to let it go.

00:54:50.400 And we have to, because it's toxic and it's destroying.

00:54:53.540 When you self-loathe,

00:54:55.760 it destroys everything.

00:54:58.640 It destroys everything.

00:54:59.980 It emanates from you.

00:55:01.420 You cannot be happy or successful or fulfilled

00:55:04.120 if you are self-loathing.

00:55:05.580 The two simply don't go together.

00:55:08.500 And it's come to a point where we need to stop this.

00:55:12.200 And also what we need to do are

00:55:14.080 the malevolent actors,

00:55:16.640 and we know who they are,

00:55:17.940 we need to be able to stand up to them.

00:55:21.100 We have had a deficit in this country.

00:55:24.140 We've had an economic deficit.

00:55:25.560 We've had all different types of deficits in this country.

00:55:28.440 But we have had,

00:55:29.660 even more severe than the economic deficit,

00:55:32.400 is a deficit of courage.

00:55:33.800 And it's now come to the point

00:55:36.120 where we just need to go,

00:55:37.840 no, enough is enough.

00:55:39.940 This is not a racist country.

00:55:41.920 There are not white supremacists

00:55:43.400 rampaging through the street,

00:55:44.840 unless Millwall are playing,

00:55:45.820 in which case, you know, fair enough.

00:55:47.500 But, you know,

00:55:48.260 there's not white supremacists

00:55:50.040 rampaging through the streets.

00:55:51.540 This isn't a patriarchy.

00:55:53.900 It's enough now.

00:55:55.160 It's enough.

00:55:55.920 And we need to stand up to those people

00:55:57.440 and go, no more.

00:55:58.360 And the people who say things like,

00:56:00.200 oh, you know,

00:56:01.060 we need blasphemy laws in this country, 1.00

00:56:03.040 go, no. 0.97

00:56:03.760 If you want blasphemy laws, 1.00

00:56:05.280 go get yourself a one-way ticket to Tehran.

00:56:07.860 Go and live there.

00:56:10.000 Enjoy it.

00:56:10.880 You've got the option.

00:56:12.360 Go and live in a place

00:56:13.640 where that is practised.

00:56:15.820 If you want to bring Sharia law 1.00

00:56:17.280 into this country,

00:56:18.220 no.

00:56:19.220 Go into a place,

00:56:20.040 if that's what you want,

00:56:21.180 fair enough.

00:56:21.900 Entitled to your views.

00:56:23.300 Go and live in a country of Sharia law. 1.00

00:56:25.320 It's enough now.

00:56:27.020 It is enough.

00:56:27.900 And people need to be stronger.

00:56:30.620 I no longer have the time

00:56:32.600 for people to come up to me

00:56:33.580 and go,

00:56:34.200 oh, thank you for saying this

00:56:35.380 because I wouldn't.

00:56:36.560 Well, then we're never going to change.

00:56:38.060 It's like I was in a comedy club

00:56:39.500 and this comedian came up to me

00:56:41.260 and did a little joke

00:56:42.140 and went, oh, yeah,

00:56:43.640 I agree with what you say.

00:56:44.540 I wouldn't say it.

00:56:46.580 Then never, ever complain

00:56:48.160 about your industry,

00:56:50.540 the culture,

00:56:51.680 or your own career,

00:56:52.880 or your own aspirations,

00:56:54.440 or not being able to do the comedy

00:56:55.800 that you want to do.

00:56:56.860 You have no right.

00:56:58.440 It's come to the point now

00:56:59.780 where you either get off the fence

00:57:01.480 and make a difference

00:57:02.520 or you just sit there

00:57:03.840 and do nothing and whine.

00:57:05.580 And what is it going to be?

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00:58:37.980 Well, I think the good news is,

00:58:39.740 and you see this in America,

00:58:41.140 is I say this with no disrespect

00:58:44.480 and not in any elitist way,

00:58:46.600 but you've just seen

00:58:47.400 that a lot of people are just,

00:58:50.340 they're just sheep.

00:58:51.700 And they follow whatever the trend is

00:58:54.460 and keep their head down.

00:58:56.360 And it doesn't take everybody.

00:58:59.300 It just takes enough people

00:59:00.740 to say something

00:59:01.740 and to change the direction of travel.

00:59:03.540 And then suddenly everyone falls in line.

00:59:05.440 Look at this with the big tech companies.

00:59:08.260 They used to be at the forefront of censorship.

00:59:10.540 The moment there's a pro-free speech presidency,

00:59:14.920 suddenly, in fact, before,

00:59:16.720 when they sense the tide turning,

00:59:19.360 what do they do?

00:59:20.020 They all lead the way.

00:59:21.940 Zuckerberg is on Joe Rogan's show

00:59:23.440 talking about free speech

00:59:24.540 and all of this other stuff.

00:59:25.780 And good on him.

00:59:26.280 I'm glad he's changed his mind.

00:59:28.540 The fact is,

00:59:29.940 most people went along 1.00

00:59:31.220 with all this woke shit 1.00

00:59:32.180 because it's easier. 1.00

00:59:34.160 And what it takes

00:59:35.300 is enough people

00:59:36.220 to actually be courageous

00:59:37.440 and then the culture changes.

00:59:40.060 Yeah.

00:59:40.360 And that's the opportunity.

00:59:41.880 The terrible things

00:59:43.080 that the UK is about to face

00:59:44.420 is that opportunity

00:59:45.360 for enough people

00:59:46.300 to suddenly realize

00:59:47.240 this can't go on.

00:59:48.780 This is not sustainable.

00:59:50.020 And that's what I think

00:59:50.800 it's going to take.

00:59:51.900 Yeah.

00:59:52.620 Because otherwise,

00:59:54.300 it's decline all the way down.

00:59:56.860 There won't be any coming back from this.

00:59:58.240 If you de-industrialize your country

00:59:59.620 and pass even more woke legislation,

01:00:03.700 there is no coming back from this.

01:00:06.860 This is what people in the West 0.99

01:00:08.160 really don't realize,

01:00:09.240 is you think that what you have

01:00:11.860 is forever.

01:00:13.400 It's not forever.

01:00:14.280 If you pull the foundations

01:00:16.160 of the house,

01:00:16.940 the house doesn't keep standing.

01:00:19.080 It crumbles.

01:00:20.500 And this is the choice

01:00:21.700 that we face.

01:00:23.580 Agreed.

01:00:24.460 And

01:00:24.820 there has to come a point

01:00:29.580 where things will change.

01:00:30.720 There has to

01:00:31.340 because we can't keep

01:00:32.720 going down this path.

01:00:33.820 This is unsustainable.

01:00:35.440 It is literally unsustainable.

01:00:38.500 And like I said before,

01:00:39.860 there will come a fork in the road

01:00:41.260 and where you have to make a choice.

01:00:42.760 And what is it that you want?

01:00:44.720 And I love this country

01:00:45.720 and so do you.

01:00:46.920 And a large part of the reason

01:00:48.160 we started this show

01:00:49.300 is because we felt

01:00:50.380 that it was going

01:00:51.100 in the wrong direction.

01:00:52.760 We didn't know the reasons

01:00:53.740 why we weren't,

01:00:54.820 but we felt

01:00:55.560 that there was something wrong,

01:00:57.420 which a lot of people do

01:00:58.840 because a lot of people

01:00:59.660 are walking around now

01:01:00.620 and going,

01:01:01.180 something is wrong.

01:01:03.680 But it is a responsibility

01:01:05.140 of every single person

01:01:06.720 in this country.

01:01:08.000 This is your country.

01:01:09.020 This is your culture.

01:01:10.300 This is your home.

01:01:11.600 What are you going to do?

01:01:12.480 Are you going to change it?

01:01:14.280 Are you going to make a difference?

01:01:16.320 Are you going to stand up

01:01:17.260 for what you think and believe?

01:01:19.100 Or are you just going to go,

01:01:20.640 oh, well, you know,

01:01:21.460 I don't want this to happen

01:01:22.580 and I don't want to get

01:01:23.540 into an argument?

01:01:26.580 There comes a point in life

01:01:28.140 where you have to fight

01:01:29.060 for what it is that you believe

01:01:30.260 and you have to fight

01:01:31.260 for what you think is right.

01:01:33.840 It comes,

01:01:34.320 that's it,

01:01:34.640 in everybody's life.

01:01:35.880 You ain't going to avoid it.

01:01:37.280 I'm sorry.

01:01:37.940 I know that your life

01:01:38.780 is comfortable now

01:01:39.820 and when it comes to comfort,

01:01:42.040 you are the most comfortable people.

01:01:43.740 We all are.

01:01:46.040 And you know what?

01:01:46.780 We're lucky.

01:01:47.560 This isn't even that bad.

01:01:49.700 My grandfather was,

01:01:51.160 I think, 23.

01:01:53.500 So my grandfather,

01:01:54.380 when he left,

01:01:55.160 he had to leave school.

01:01:56.160 He was a very,

01:01:56.840 very bright guy.

01:01:58.160 Grew up in a very poor

01:01:59.440 working class part

01:02:00.300 of the north of England.

01:02:01.300 He had to leave school at 14.

01:02:02.780 He couldn't do exams

01:02:03.780 because he had to help

01:02:05.820 to go out to work

01:02:06.760 to provide for his family

01:02:08.360 in the 1930s

01:02:10.000 in the Great Depression.

01:02:11.460 He used to go to the dock

01:02:12.600 in Liverpool

01:02:13.140 in order to get work.

01:02:14.780 There'd be hundreds of men

01:02:15.920 just wait there for hours

01:02:17.800 in the rain in Liverpool.

01:02:20.080 The foreman would come out,

01:02:22.040 look at hundreds of men

01:02:23.020 and go,

01:02:23.880 you,

01:02:24.380 you,

01:02:24.820 you,

01:02:25.280 the rest of you, 1.00

01:02:25.800 fuck off. 1.00

01:02:26.640 And then he'd go back 1.00

01:02:27.440 with nothing.

01:02:28.300 And so,

01:02:30.220 you get through that

01:02:31.980 and just when you're starting

01:02:33.440 to make a little bit

01:02:34.300 of headway,

01:02:35.100 he got to be a joiner.

01:02:38.140 1939.

01:02:40.740 Then the war started.

01:02:42.060 Then he went to war.

01:02:43.160 Then he fought

01:02:44.120 all the way

01:02:44.900 from North Africa

01:02:46.680 right the way up

01:02:47.560 to the top of Italy.

01:02:48.940 Fought against Nazis 0.72

01:02:50.060 in the desert.

01:02:51.700 It ain't that.

01:02:53.180 But I think

01:02:54.100 that's why it's harder.

01:02:58.120 That's why it's harder.

01:03:00.400 Because if you said

01:03:01.780 to people now,

01:03:05.760 Hitler's invaded, 0.97

01:03:08.300 we've declared war,

01:03:11.240 go serve your country.

01:03:13.440 That's simple.

01:03:14.360 It's not easier,

01:03:15.020 but it's simpler.

01:03:16.600 It's,

01:03:17.060 you know what to do.

01:03:18.500 The problem with this stuff

01:03:19.920 is a lot of people

01:03:20.980 have no idea what to do.

01:03:22.740 And that's why

01:03:23.880 I think we've been

01:03:24.700 in the malaise

01:03:25.260 that we've been in.

01:03:25.940 Because

01:03:26.160 you can't point

01:03:28.580 at a breach

01:03:29.360 and send men

01:03:30.540 into the breach.

01:03:31.780 Where's the breach?

01:03:32.580 What are they supposed

01:03:33.100 to do?

01:03:34.360 Or you're supposed

01:03:35.020 to stand up at work

01:03:35.940 and go,

01:03:36.580 I don't think DEI

01:03:37.480 is the right thing.

01:03:38.220 Okay.

01:03:39.080 Are you going to achieve anything?

01:03:44.080 Are you?

01:03:45.440 That's the difficulty.

01:03:46.380 is that a lot of people

01:03:48.000 simply do not know

01:03:49.140 what to do.

01:03:50.540 And that's why

01:03:51.140 I think

01:03:51.660 you have to,

01:03:53.400 this is all going to begin

01:03:54.560 at the elite level,

01:03:57.060 so to speak.

01:03:57.620 It's going to begin

01:03:58.540 in politics,

01:04:00.800 in the media,

01:04:01.540 in culture.

01:04:02.200 That's where it gets

01:04:03.000 turned around.

01:04:03.800 And then it gives everybody

01:04:04.780 permission to join in.

01:04:05.940 That's what happened

01:04:06.360 in America.

01:04:07.660 Look,

01:04:08.040 just remember,

01:04:09.120 in 2016,

01:04:10.840 half of the Republican Party

01:04:12.380 hated Donald Trump.

01:04:13.440 Yeah.

01:04:13.540 Most of the country

01:04:15.820 found him deeply obnoxious

01:04:17.520 and unacceptable.

01:04:18.720 Right?

01:04:19.200 And then miraculously,

01:04:20.120 he was elected anyway.

01:04:21.300 But that was the impression

01:04:22.140 you had.

01:04:22.620 Everybody thought 1.00

01:04:23.220 he was an idiot, 1.00

01:04:24.100 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 1.00

01:04:25.620 It's going to have

01:04:26.680 to be the same here.

01:04:27.480 It's going to have

01:04:27.880 to change it

01:04:28.460 in terms of the conversations

01:04:29.800 people are having.

01:04:32.380 And I think

01:04:33.820 it all begins

01:04:34.600 with understanding

01:04:36.320 that actually

01:04:37.340 we do want Britain

01:04:38.360 to be great Britain.

01:04:39.460 We want it to be great.

01:04:41.400 You know,

01:04:41.700 people used to laugh.

01:04:42.760 Even now,

01:04:43.280 people will laugh,

01:04:44.500 oh,

01:04:44.680 you want to make

01:04:45.140 Britain great again.

01:04:47.140 I want Britain to be great.

01:04:48.920 Is it great now?

01:04:50.980 I don't think so.

01:04:52.200 No.

01:04:52.300 So that means

01:04:52.820 we're going to have

01:04:53.220 to make it great again.

01:04:54.360 It's just a logical

01:04:55.160 sequence of things,

01:04:56.680 right?

01:04:57.580 We're going to have

01:04:58.220 to make it better

01:04:58.820 than what it is.

01:05:00.020 But there is something

01:05:00.880 that people can do

01:05:01.720 because the amount

01:05:02.280 of people that talk to me,

01:05:03.400 I don't know if you get

01:05:03.940 the same and go,

01:05:04.640 oh,

01:05:05.080 thank you for saying this

01:05:06.100 or whatever it is,

01:05:06.880 you know,

01:05:07.080 I wouldn't say that

01:05:07.800 to my friends.

01:05:09.160 No,

01:05:09.540 it's time to start

01:05:10.200 saying it to your friends

01:05:11.060 and it's time

01:05:11.680 to start saying it

01:05:12.500 to your family.

01:05:13.960 That's when you can

01:05:14.660 take responsibility.

01:05:16.140 The point about

01:05:16.800 standing up in the office

01:05:18.140 about DI,

01:05:19.180 fair.

01:05:19.960 But you can say

01:05:20.680 to your friends

01:05:21.240 when they're banging on

01:05:22.000 and go,

01:05:22.240 well,

01:05:22.440 I don't see,

01:05:23.040 you know,

01:05:23.200 there's no such thing

01:05:23.980 as male and female.

01:05:25.220 You know,

01:05:25.420 I think there is,

01:05:26.220 mate.

01:05:28.660 I think there is,

01:05:29.720 actually.

01:05:30.160 the bloke wandering

01:05:32.780 over there

01:05:33.300 with a miniskirt

01:05:34.040 with his knob

01:05:34.500 hanging out,

01:05:35.020 I don't think

01:05:35.520 it's a woman.

01:05:38.900 Sorry,

01:05:39.540 it's not a woman. 0.95

01:05:40.700 Can we disagree on that?

01:05:43.140 Because otherwise,

01:05:44.320 what happens

01:05:45.060 is we get to the point

01:05:46.260 where the bloke

01:05:47.200 wandering around

01:05:47.760 with a miniskirt

01:05:48.420 and his knob

01:05:48.840 hanging out 0.60

01:05:49.240 is a woman.

01:05:50.620 Even though you

01:05:51.420 haven't stated it

01:05:52.280 in the most profound way,

01:05:53.340 that is actually

01:05:53.760 a very profound point

01:05:54.840 that Solzhenitsyn made.

01:05:56.300 He said,

01:05:56.960 let the lies

01:05:57.520 pass through the world,

01:05:58.420 but not through me.

01:05:59.920 Not through me.

01:06:00.900 And when enough people

01:06:01.720 stop lying

01:06:02.400 or stop allowing lies

01:06:03.760 to be said

01:06:04.260 in their presence,

01:06:05.460 this will change.

01:06:06.420 Yeah.

01:06:07.340 And if enough people go,

01:06:09.000 no,

01:06:09.880 no,

01:06:10.260 it's,

01:06:10.640 no.

01:06:12.260 I don't agree,

01:06:13.240 actually.

01:06:13.640 And I think that is,

01:06:14.460 I mean,

01:06:14.900 the stat that Kemi gave us

01:06:16.600 about the fact

01:06:17.220 that both Lib Dems,

01:06:19.500 conservatives,

01:06:20.340 and reform,

01:06:21.720 and probably

01:06:22.280 a large chunk of Labour too,

01:06:23.640 are really concerned

01:06:24.380 about illegal immigration,

01:06:25.760 that just shows you

01:06:26.580 that most people

01:06:27.460 are seeing

01:06:28.100 what's going on.

01:06:29.000 Of course.

01:06:29.440 On a lot of this stuff.

01:06:31.240 But they,

01:06:31.920 like you said,

01:06:32.740 they need to speak up.

01:06:33.960 They all need to.

01:06:35.780 And people,

01:06:36.540 again,

01:06:36.780 I just want to say this as well

01:06:38.120 because people look,

01:06:38.920 oh,

01:06:39.180 you guys have a big YouTube channel

01:06:40.640 and you're,

01:06:41.600 when we started this,

01:06:45.220 do you remember

01:06:45.680 when we started this?

01:06:47.180 I try and forget,

01:06:47.820 but yes.

01:06:48.780 We started

01:06:49.320 not only with nothing,

01:06:50.920 we started

01:06:51.520 in an uber woke

01:06:52.660 comedy industry,

01:06:54.540 relying on the help

01:06:55.740 of uber woke comedians.

01:06:57.300 Yeah.

01:06:57.460 To whom we're grateful

01:06:58.460 for the help,

01:06:59.060 by the way.

01:06:59.700 But we always knew

01:07:00.540 we were going to get

01:07:01.180 ostracized by our colleagues.

01:07:03.060 We always knew

01:07:03.540 that we were liable

01:07:04.600 to be kicked out of the studio

01:07:05.980 that we eventually

01:07:06.600 got kicked out of

01:07:07.460 and all this other stuff.

01:07:08.920 We are only

01:07:09.740 inviting people

01:07:11.080 to do exactly

01:07:11.760 what we did.

01:07:12.560 And I don't think

01:07:13.180 that's unreasonable.

01:07:14.240 No.

01:07:14.460 We're saying,

01:07:15.240 look,

01:07:16.000 you've got to stand up

01:07:17.580 for what you believe

01:07:18.240 because if you don't,

01:07:20.340 the thing you believe

01:07:21.100 is going to disappear.

01:07:22.680 Yeah.

01:07:22.800 And ultimately,

01:07:24.420 if you love something

01:07:25.980 and you believe in it,

01:07:27.680 then there's going to

01:07:28.520 become a time

01:07:29.380 where it's going to

01:07:31.700 come under threat.

01:07:32.900 Whatever it is.

01:07:34.440 Whether it's your society,

01:07:36.060 your culture,

01:07:36.740 your child.

01:07:38.660 And it's your job

01:07:40.100 as an adult,

01:07:41.340 as an adult,

01:07:43.000 to stand up

01:07:43.960 and go,

01:07:44.460 no,

01:07:45.460 enough is enough.

01:07:46.980 You don't get

01:07:47.820 to do this anymore.

01:07:49.540 We're done.

01:07:50.960 And if enough people

01:07:52.020 will do this,

01:07:52.780 do this,

01:07:53.500 if everybody did that

01:07:54.620 tomorrow,

01:07:55.540 it'd be over.

01:07:58.320 It'd be over.

01:07:59.320 Agreed.

01:07:59.820 All right.

01:08:00.200 Head on over

01:08:00.740 to our sub stack

01:08:02.140 where we continue

01:08:02.820 the conversation

01:08:03.420 with your questions.

01:08:07.900 Do you think

01:08:08.440 the Reform Party

01:08:09.280 is the panacea

01:08:10.580 for the UK's

01:08:12.440 political stagnation?

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TRIGGERnometry - February 23, 2025

The State of Britain - Konstantin Kisin & Francis Foster

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