TRIGGERnometry - The TRUTH About Porn with Eva Lovia

00:00:00.000 So what are some of the big myths about the porn industry that you think are not true?

00:00:05.580 Oh, man.

00:00:12.320 Hello, and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster.

00:00:16.380 I'm Constantine Kissin.

00:00:17.520 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:00:23.220 Our brilliant guest today used to be known by her professional name, Eva Lovia.

00:00:27.560 Candice Holbach, welcome to Trigonometry.

00:00:29.240 You are, of course, a former porn actress and now turned podcaster and commentator.

00:00:33.900 Yes.

00:00:34.140 Thank you guys for having me.

00:00:35.780 It's so good to have you on the show.

00:00:37.280 Listen, before we get into it, I should first of all say you're the only guest where I

00:00:41.160 haven't said I'm a huge fan of your work for obvious reasons, but also tell everybody a

00:00:46.760 little bit about your backstory.

00:00:48.140 Who are you?

00:00:49.060 How are you?

00:00:49.600 Where you are?

00:00:50.060 What has been your journey through life leads you to be sitting here talking to us?

00:00:53.860 Oh, man.

00:00:54.320 Okay, so I guess like 10,000 foot view would be I've spent over a decade in the in the adult industry. I kind of navigated the mainstream version of that and then slowly transitioned to self producing. And now the OnlyFans model, which is, you know, very popular right now. And a lot of people are talking about that. And then I would say somewhere in the middle of that, I decided to start a podcast just like everyone else, you know, during quarantine and lockdown.

00:01:22.080 So I got inspired to do it mostly because I just saw a lot of conversations that were being had on one side.

00:01:32.060 And I feel like no one was really representing thoughts that I thought were important or conversations that I thought were important or asking tough questions because I'm in this rare space where I can't be canceled.

00:01:42.960 So I was like, well, let's see what we can do with that and run with it.

00:01:46.700 Well, we like people who can't be canceled because they're the ones that the only ones nowadays who can have an honest conversation, which is what we try to do. So very much in that spirit. Can you just start us off by telling us some basic stuff about, you know, what, how did you get into the, into the adult film industry and why, what motivated you to do that?

00:02:06.960 Oh, man, it was it's going to sound kind of crazy, but to some extent, I've always been fascinated by sexuality and kind of the energy and power that comes with that.

00:02:19.220 Even from a very young age, I was often like idolizing women like Pamela Anderson and Carmen Electra and the Playboy Bunnies.

00:02:28.620 and I don't know I felt like there was some kind of freedom that came along with like realizing

00:02:36.760 your sexual potential and then for me it just it seemed like that's just who I was it wasn't

00:02:44.120 for the money it wasn't to get super famous it just kind of felt like a part of me so I kind of

00:02:50.360 dipped my toe in with just like implied modeling like something that you would see in magazines you

00:02:55.220 know not showing anything and I just kind of got bored and I was like well that's not what I really

00:02:59.620 want to do I want to do these big pictures and I want to be doing these big movies and I want to

00:03:03.820 see what it's like to be on a proper set um so I reached out to a company in Florida and I was like

00:03:09.880 I don't really know how this works like do you audition like how like how mainstream is this

00:03:14.800 how does it go and I they were like just send us a couple selfies and I did and then they flew me

00:03:19.600 down to Florida and the rest was history and so how long did you work in the mainstream industry

00:03:24.360 for oh man i'd say probably five to six years it was pretty short i've spent probably just as much

00:03:35.200 time now on the opposite side of it just self-producing and doing the more amateur

00:03:39.320 approach as i did in the mainstream industry and whenever there's been an expose of the porn

00:03:45.440 industry on tv it always looks i'm going to be using technical language here can do so it looks

00:03:51.380 fucking awful is it actually like that it looks deeply exploitative it looks deeply misogynistic

00:03:58.440 and nobody comes out of it in a good way or is that just an industry the tv trying to moralize

00:04:06.640 trying to put this narrative across so i think two things can be true at once right and i think

00:04:11.840 being exploited isn't unique to the adult industry especially when it comes to women i think

00:04:16.680 you know we can be harassed in any industry it's you look at you know the music business or look

00:04:21.820 at mainstream Hollywood anywhere really it can exist I think it's just it has more of that

00:04:27.600 visceral response because it's such an intimate industry so we really don't like when we see it

00:04:32.620 and it's happening quite literally right like you have an assault or something that happens on set

00:04:37.400 so I mean that absolutely does happen and it's not to take away from the people that are victims

00:04:43.960 within like the sex trade but I wouldn't say that that's the norm I wouldn't say that the vast

00:04:49.640 majority of porn is leading to human trafficking which seems to kind of be the narrative right now

00:04:54.620 and if that were true then if you were to look at countries like Nepal where porn is illegal you

00:04:59.360 would expect that there's no trafficking right and there would be no women or children that are

00:05:03.760 being exploited but that's really not the case I have a huge trafficking issue in that country

00:05:08.820 so uh yeah I think I think both things can be true I think it depends on why you got in too

00:05:15.120 right like if you go in because it's a curiosity or it's a part of like something that you want to

00:05:20.720 explore versus I have a bill to pay and I'm just doing this out of survival I think the outcome

00:05:25.920 is going to be dependent on that and I mean you talked I was watching one of your interviews where

00:05:32.260 you talked about performing with one particular person I think in the UK and you were saying that

00:05:38.240 this person was you know not respectful not a good person and made you feel deeply uncomfortable

00:05:45.820 was that the norm or is that actually an aberration and most people in it are just professionals

00:05:51.800 it's like turning up to the office you turn up with your cup of coffee you walk in and you do

00:05:55.680 what you need to do so I think my case is a little bit unique when I started shooting more of the

00:06:01.440 hardcore stuff I always had a yes list so everyone that I would work with that was a man was um had

00:06:07.760 to like check off certain boxes for me. So I was very particular who I was going to work with in

00:06:12.940 the States. I didn't really know anyone when I came over to shoot in the UK. So I kind of just

00:06:17.420 had to ask around as to like who, who people would recommend. Um, for one of the bigger pictures we

00:06:23.340 did, someone was on this, or I got, um, booked with someone that I didn't really know anything

00:06:27.480 about. And I was like, it won't be a big deal. Um, you know, I've been doing this for years now.

00:06:31.880 it's just a scene right and I don't know if it was just I don't know if he was trying to act or

00:06:38.960 if he was nervous maybe because of who I was because I was a really big name at the time

00:06:43.440 and he was a UK performer and they don't really have the same amount of like like star power

00:06:49.480 quote-unquote so I don't know what was going on it was really uncomfortable no one really said

00:06:55.280 anything so I don't know if that's normal for most women if they just work with random people

00:07:00.520 that show up on set um i know that was very unusual for me because again like i had a yes list

00:07:06.400 so everyone on it was like a superstar like very respectful very professional um would never put

00:07:11.860 me in harm's way and this is just one of those rare instances where i worked with someone off

00:07:15.580 of my list and i was like well this is why i have a list this is why that exists so it sounds like

00:07:22.600 you were in a position of actually quite a lot of power uh compared to many other people i would

00:07:28.120 imagine an industry being a big name etc do you think that that is possibly why you had fewer

00:07:35.160 issues with that sort of thing do you think that it's more common for for people sort of lower down

00:07:40.540 the pecking order to be exploited i mean as comedians it's obviously a different industry

00:07:45.020 but i can tell you it's kind of the same like the lower down the pecking order you are in comedy the

00:07:49.520 more you know you get asked to do things for no money you get asked to do things that you're not

00:07:54.320 necessarily keen to do, to travel further than you'd like, all that sort of stuff. So do you

00:07:59.060 think that you were sort of somewhat insulated from some of the problems that people often

00:08:03.140 associate with porn because of who you were? Definitely, because I mean, even the stuff,

00:08:10.060 anything dicey that I even did have to go through through my career, I think that's,

00:08:14.260 so I actually got fired from my contract. And it was one of like the final decisions before I

00:08:20.640 started self-producing. So I got fired because I was like one of the main and like original

00:08:26.320 contract girls for my era of, of porn star. Um, and we started getting new contract girls and I

00:08:32.980 just saw stuff that I wasn't okay with. And then I saw what they were doing to me. I saw what they

00:08:37.620 were doing to her. And I was like, well, if they're doing this to people that have these really large

00:08:41.800 social platforms, I can't imagine what they're doing to someone who has nothing, right? Cause

00:08:45.940 they don't they they can shout into this void and no one's going to know um so i took to twitter

00:08:51.120 about it sorry to interrupt by making them do things that you're uncomfortable with what are

00:08:57.340 we actually talking about here so i would say like something really simple right like a contract

00:09:01.700 so they sent me my contract and i had to obviously send it to my lawyer and have it reviewed and make

00:09:08.060 adjustments and send it back and they acted like this was preposterous right like no one does this

00:09:13.160 you just signed. I was like, well, that's ridiculous. They should, right? So this girl

00:09:17.520 that was getting signed, her agent was like, no, no, no, just sign it. You don't need to send it

00:09:22.020 to a lawyer. Eva's just a diva. You don't want to be difficult like that, right? So she signs

00:09:27.480 this contract. I don't know what hers said. I know what mine said, and I can imagine it was

00:09:31.620 pretty similar to my original version. Typically, when it comes to sex acts, and especially if

00:09:37.480 you're contracted, everything is kind of laid out like a menu. So it's like, okay, this act is for

00:09:42.520 this price and all of these are my yeses all of these are nos like don't even bring it to me I

00:09:47.120 don't do them so for example it it seems obvious but if you were to work in a group scene you would

00:09:55.080 expect to get paid more money right and if it's not listed you would expect that that conversation

00:10:00.400 would be had if you were comfortable with that so I was in a particular situation where I showed up

00:10:06.020 across the sea right I show up in the UK and all of a sudden it's this huge group scene and I don't

00:10:11.100 do those. And they're like, well, you're already here, you have to do it. I was like, that's not

00:10:15.220 how it works. So it was like this huge argument. Obviously, I didn't end up going through with it

00:10:19.900 because that wasn't, you know, that wasn't something I was comfortable with. But the other

00:10:24.900 girl did because she, you know, didn't want to cause a stir and she didn't get paid extra. And

00:10:29.640 it's like, you were being taken advantage of so clearly. And she was such a sweet girl. She didn't

00:10:35.700 want to be disagreeable. You know, she wanted to keep her head down. She really loved what she was

00:10:39.800 doing she loved her opportunities you know what i mean working for this very large company um so

00:10:45.500 i was like well if no one else is going to say something i'm going to so i took it sounds like

00:10:50.440 uh can you start to interrupt it sounds like exactly the sort of thing people experience in

00:10:55.320 every industry uh across the spectrum i've been in those positions and often found myself being

00:11:01.260 the odd one out as well which is why i've ended up doing this but but but the problem is for me

00:11:08.620 at least and you know talk to me talk me out of this if you can that you know if someone wants me

00:11:13.820 to to work for less money or do this or do that at the end of the day I'm not selling something as

00:11:19.820 intimate as sex whereas here someone is being put in a position where like you say they may be sweet

00:11:26.420 maybe they're a little bit fearful of upsetting people etc and the end result is they end up

00:11:31.680 having sex with a bunch of people that they never wanted to in the first place and that I think is

00:11:36.840 where a lot of people have the feeling that porn is uniquely exploitative. Would you agree with

00:11:41.700 that? I think it depends on the mindset. So it's going to maybe sound a little callous or

00:11:47.640 I don't know. I just think some people can have very casual sex and it doesn't leave a trauma,

00:11:56.460 right? Like they can be, they can kind of dissociate. And then other people can't,

00:12:01.880 I would say most people can't.

00:12:03.520 So it depends on the person.

00:12:05.480 I would imagine, yes, if I felt like I was in a position where I ended up having sex with five people and I didn't want to, like, I can imagine that's a really big regret.

00:12:13.920 And then how do you deal with that?

00:12:15.200 I don't know.

00:12:16.820 Especially because you leave, like, let's say you leave the industry and you go to a society that's not really accepting of those decisions.

00:12:22.300 So now you kind of are cast away.

00:12:25.260 So I would say, like, it's very easy to blame just the porn, but you also have to take into account everything after the fact, right?

00:12:31.700 Like, do you have a support system to go to?

00:12:34.400 Do you have a community that's willing to let you, um, to, to give you grace?

00:12:39.320 So it's, it's like a very weird and big problem.

00:12:43.840 Yeah.

00:12:44.460 Well, I hear what you're saying, but I, it's, I, it doesn't sound quite right to me in the

00:12:49.180 sense of like, well, sure you want a community of supportive people, but at the end of the

00:12:53.440 day, I don't think anyone wants people to be in a position where they're encouraged

00:12:57.800 or coerced or forced or whatever the word is to be doing things sexually that they don't want to do

00:13:03.180 totally i think that's where a lot of people have an issue with with with the industry of porn

00:13:09.200 that sure you can have supportive people hold your hand afterwards and you'd hope everyone

00:13:14.680 gets the support they need but in the real in the ideal world that wouldn't be happening in

00:13:18.660 the first place right and then you would have to also say though is that is that unique like

00:13:24.540 again it feels it feels different right because it's such an intimate industry but if you talk

00:13:30.320 to some people like this one girl um before she got into like the sex industry she was working

00:13:37.300 in like a basement factory for 16 to 18 hours a day for like eight bucks an hour um she never saw

00:13:44.300 the sunlight like you can't like trauma exists everywhere right we have people that are suffering

00:13:49.400 from immense amounts of depression anxiety um lack of purpose and fulfillment and they're really

00:13:55.060 hurting and i wouldn't say that that's unique to just a sexual exploitation i think you can be

00:13:59.400 exploited anywhere and it just feels worse because it's your body that's being exploited

00:14:04.120 but i could argue that like if your soul or your mind is being exploited that's just as bad

00:14:09.580 but i suppose the one thing that i would push back on you there with candice is let's say that

00:14:16.880 You go and work in a factory.

00:14:19.320 You know, we've all done menial jobs.

00:14:21.040 I certainly have.

00:14:21.880 They're all depressing.

00:14:23.500 You know, it's unfulfilling, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

00:14:27.020 But if you are pushed when you're doing pornography

00:14:30.240 into something that you are not comfortable with,

00:14:32.740 that you feel as if you were somehow being degraded,

00:14:36.640 there's the extra element where that content

00:14:38.940 could then be uploaded to a site like Pornhub,

00:14:42.200 and then it could be watched by perpetually millions of people.

00:14:44.800 doesn't doesn't that also come into play oh 100 and i i'm really hopeful with the way that things

00:14:52.940 seem to be moving when it comes to like decentralized platforms and blockchain that

00:14:57.800 that is going to be like a huge um alternative to the current model because i do think that

00:15:02.820 there should be some kind of of discourse if let's say you have one of these scenes right

00:15:08.080 and there was something questionable that happened or maybe you were abused or maybe

00:15:11.780 you weren't consenting like that should be taken down 100 it should be without a question um

00:15:16.700 unfortunately we obviously know that doesn't happen we know that Pornhub had to delete a

00:15:20.820 whole bunch of videos because of this um and even stuff that you might see on like a site like

00:15:25.220 browsers or bangbros there's probably a lot of young women that are like I wish that scene wasn't

00:15:29.080 out and there's no there's no course for them to even have that conversation you can go to them

00:15:34.140 the contract that you signed prior to shooting is like in perpetuity this is going to exist

00:15:40.120 In any other industry, you can't say in perpetuity,

00:15:43.560 but with something that intimate you can, it doesn't really make sense.

00:15:46.460 So I think when it comes to blockchain and NFTs,

00:15:49.920 you're going to have the creators that are owning that content

00:15:52.240 and that they're going to be able to either add it or remove it.

00:15:57.200 Yeah.

00:15:57.820 And I was going to ask you as well in terms of the situation with porn

00:16:04.440 and you said at the beginning that you were addressing

00:16:08.800 some of the things that people sometimes maybe think about it that aren't true so what are some

00:16:13.300 of the big myths about the the porn industry that you think are not true oh man i would well the

00:16:20.120 first and obvious one is that everyone in it is being exploited um that's just not true again it

00:16:26.180 exists but i wouldn't even say that's the majority um i would say that the one of the more recent um

00:16:34.680 talking points is that it ruins masculinity or that it creates a type of sexual autism,

00:16:40.660 which I feel like it's kind of cherry picking the way that we're interpreting data. So yes,

00:16:48.560 if you watch a ridiculous amount of porn, it's to be assumed that you're going to show up a little

00:16:55.000 bit different in the bedroom and you might not recognize your partner's cues. You might be very

00:16:59.500 selfish you might not understand their boundaries but that's not unique to porn so if you spend a

00:17:05.000 lot of time on social media you'll actually show those same signs in just regular conversations

00:17:09.920 so you won't be able to pick up on like facial responses and other forms of like non-verbal

00:17:16.200 communication so yes that's in porn but that's just like too much screen time period so I'd say

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00:18:48.000 You say that people don't get exploited.

00:18:52.940 What is it?

00:18:54.100 Is there an average type of person who gets involved in this industry?

00:18:57.860 Do you have to have an exhibitionist streaking you?

00:19:01.520 Is it somebody who has always wanted to?

00:19:04.200 or is it as a mainstream media says you know it's the girl who typically gets into porn young who

00:19:10.800 typically is hyper sexualized because of sexual abuse etc oh it's hard right it's hard to like

00:19:19.040 break that down as to to how many people are going into it with a level head and they see it as a

00:19:26.380 career and it's part of who they are and they maybe are like this um they they're like this

00:19:31.280 outlaw personality right like they're more comfortable on the fringes than within the herd

00:19:35.700 like that exists and then there's some people that yeah maybe maybe you are over sexualized

00:19:42.280 by your environment but like every part of our environment influences who we are whether if it's

00:19:47.020 like you want to become a rocket scientist or an oil rigger or a teacher right like you're

00:19:52.220 constantly being influenced by everything so to just say that because of marketing that's why

00:19:56.840 you got into porn then we would have a lot more people that were in the sex work industry than

00:20:00.980 what we do right like it's still a very small amount of the population um so i think a lot of

00:20:05.720 it has to be the personality a lot of it has to be um like you are again just more more comfortable

00:20:12.100 with that discomfort and do you not worry when we were talking about you know the effect that it has

00:20:19.600 on you know on the world it has the effect that it has on people's behavior the reality is porn

00:20:25.320 consumption has exploded ever since the internet before it was something difficult you actually

00:20:32.100 physically had to go into a shop buy it etc whereas now you can get it at the just a tap of a screen

00:20:39.040 that's progress mate the accessibility issue is really interesting right um i think we obviously

00:20:49.080 have guardrails with everything that people don't completely trust us with so there's guardrails

00:20:55.160 for tobacco there's guardrails for alcohol right like you can only have 90 proof or something like

00:21:00.460 that um where I'm at in the states you can't buy hard liquor on Sundays so at all unless you're you

00:21:06.560 go to a bar or something but you can't go to a grocery store or the liquor store and get it just

00:21:11.260 closed um so there's guardrails currently I feel like the internet and specifically in the in the

00:21:17.540 porn side of the internet there's nothing right like everything's free there's no time limit none

00:21:22.920 of that. I'm a huge proponent of paywalls. I don't understand why there aren't any. I know it

00:21:29.520 doesn't completely get rid of the problem, but I think that even if you were to do like maybe like

00:21:34.580 a pay-per-view, but that's kind of, you know, I think that's maybe over-regulating. I'm not really

00:21:40.140 sure, but just like some kind of verification that you know it's not a seven-year-old. It's

00:21:44.160 someone who's at least old enough to have a credit card and maybe some kind of age verification

00:21:47.960 process. But I think someone who's maybe overindulging in something like that, like that's

00:21:54.020 just the symptom, right? So we have to try to figure out why that's happening. Like why is that

00:21:58.220 avoidant behavior, you know, showing up? Why do they want to spend more time with themselves in

00:22:02.380 the screen and not with real people? I don't think it's just porn, right? You see that again with

00:22:07.580 video games and with people that are spending more time in Minecraft and now you have meta

00:22:13.740 And we have this huge community of people that just don't want to be in the real world.

00:22:17.680 So why is that?

00:22:20.040 It's a really good point.

00:22:21.300 And I was going to ask you, do you think people sometimes have an inappropriately, unnecessarily

00:22:27.640 negative view of the industry?

00:22:29.460 Do you think people sort of demonize the industry sometimes for, as you say, things that happen

00:22:35.300 in many other industries?

00:22:37.120 Oh, 100%.

00:22:38.120 Yeah.

00:22:38.860 it's interesting that you say that because for example one of our former guests anna fleishman

00:22:44.700 who is an evolutionary uh biologist one of the things she talked about in one of her articles

00:22:50.260 was that in societies where there's a lot of porn consumption actually violence against women

00:22:55.040 goes down and sexual violence goes down um so i i you know i i know it feels like maybe we're

00:23:01.740 sort of coming at you from a moralistic angle particularly initially uh which we're not we're

00:23:06.940 just trying to you know probe the arguments and find out what you think about stuff uh but it's

00:23:12.360 interesting so do you think it's a weird question to ask but do you think we would be worse off if

00:23:18.960 we didn't have porn i think if you look at countries that heavily repress or regulate

00:23:27.280 your sexuality there's a lot more violence and there's a lot less freedom so obviously you can't

00:23:34.220 say causation, right? All you can kind of do is look and try to find patterns. I mean, with the

00:23:39.620 boom of the internet, that's kind of one of the things with the porn industry is they tend to be

00:23:43.320 on the forefront of technology ever since the internet, right? Like that's what it was back in

00:23:47.420 the 90s. And there was a drop of something like 80 something percent in sexual abuse and rapes in

00:23:54.940 the US. Again, you can't say causation, but it's just an interesting pattern. So I think the

00:24:01.440 conversation about like is porn good or bad i think it's whatever you want it to be i think

00:24:06.440 you are who you are and if you're a misogynist and you are violent against women i think that

00:24:11.440 that's going to show up in the content that you're watching i think if you have a healthy

00:24:15.040 relationship with sexuality that's going to show up in the content that you're watching

00:24:18.420 um so i wouldn't say it's i just think porn is i don't think it's good or bad but there are

00:24:26.280 certainly certain organizations or company out there that you could argue have a malign influence

00:24:32.120 on society, maybe like the company Pornhub. They have got a huge amount of critics. Where do you

00:24:38.560 stand on a company like that? So Pornhub's an interesting company. So basically, the company

00:24:46.800 that owns Pornhub owns almost all of the porn that you see online. Like it's kind of one big

00:24:52.460 monopoly. That's just like their biggest baby as far as revenue goes. I'm not in favor of the

00:24:59.780 tube model. I think that, again, they made all of their money by not only pirating content and

00:25:05.760 stealing content, especially from like small producers like myself, right? Like I have this

00:25:10.020 limited budget and they would maybe take a video of mine and put it up there for free where I

00:25:14.600 charge for that and it's behind a paywall and it's responsible on some level. So just the way

00:25:20.940 they got started wasn't very honest or ethical. I also think that when you're uploading that kind

00:25:26.780 of content with zero age verification, it's like, what are you doing? Like, you're absolutely asking

00:25:32.060 for trouble. So yeah, I mean, I have a lot of problems with the ethics of that company.

00:25:38.320 So you said zero age verification, because this is something we have quite, we've hosted interviews

00:25:44.820 with quite a number of feminists, we have quite a lot of feminists who watch the show and engage

00:25:49.460 with the show and it's been said time and time again that actually the Pornhub have hosted

00:25:55.140 content featuring minors is this correct allegedly allegedly please don't sue us

00:26:00.700 so they did find videos of um underage girls of bright like that that was found um I don't know

00:26:08.860 how much was there and I do know that's not unique to Pornhub there's significantly more that was on

00:26:16.360 Facebook and all of those. But the difference is, is that Facebook comes out and reports it

00:26:20.320 because it's a problem that they're trying to fix. Whereas Pornhub was like, nothing exists here.

00:26:25.300 There's nothing to see. Look the other way. And you're like, well, why are you not being honest

00:26:29.280 about this? Right. Like you can say that something slipped through the cracks because, again, that

00:26:33.240 happens on every platform. It happens on Zoom. It happens on Telegram. Like there's not a place

00:26:39.600 in the Internet where there's not going to be some like illegal content being published. So it was

00:26:45.380 kind of concerning and also interesting that again they pretended that problem wasn't there

00:26:50.420 at all instead of just being transparent and saying like we want to help but yeah when you

00:26:55.580 don't have any form of verification like this is my content I was consenting I was of age and then

00:27:02.700 you could just let anyone upload I feel like you're asking for that content to be put up

00:27:07.120 and you mentioned several times the idea of ethical porn and moving on from the porn industry

00:27:13.880 what was your reason for for moving on and doing your own stuff so I felt like I started having

00:27:21.660 more and more experiences where like my voice wasn't being respected my boundaries weren't

00:27:27.580 being respected I was being told I was difficult all of the time because I would say the word no

00:27:33.060 and I was I was just kind of I thought it was ridiculous I thought I think it's ridiculous that

00:27:38.100 performers get paid one time for a scene that's out there forever that absolutely will affect the

00:27:43.800 rest of your life not only your life but if you decide to get married or have children and your

00:27:48.300 parents like it affects absolutely every crack that exists in your life and you get paid one time

00:27:55.700 so like there's no royalties if there's anything that happens you don't get to take it down I just

00:28:00.240 the power dynamic in that industry is is still really off and then I saw these third-party

00:28:05.920 platforms that were launching and it gives the power to the creator and to the performer and

00:28:11.120 it just seemed like a no-brainer so i think that the industry is definitely going to be going

00:28:15.400 through a revolution right now and again when it comes to like crypto and blockchain and nfts and

00:28:20.740 all this i think that it's going to be turned upside down in a very good way well one of the

00:28:25.440 things i'm told is happening in the porn industry is there are a lot of uh creators who are basically

00:28:32.740 making their own content in the same way that francis and i are now doing what tv used to do

00:28:38.420 we're having conversations with people there's a lot of couples who are making stuff

00:28:42.500 which is just two people who who love each other who are very keen to do this they put their own

00:28:48.380 stuff out nobody's getting hopefully nobody's getting coerced or abused or mistreated in that

00:28:54.240 situation and they're putting out do you think that that's the sort of direction that this all

00:28:59.140 needs to move in i wouldn't say that it needs to move to just couples but i i definitely think

00:29:06.080 that's becoming a lot more common and I think it starts to take the air out of the wings of the

00:29:11.040 people that are like this is strictly exploitive because there's no case for that there right

00:29:16.260 everyone's of age everyone's consenting they're actually married and then it becomes very clear

00:29:20.940 that the the opponents of that industry it's strictly like religious based or it's like it

00:29:27.720 pertains to their morality so I think you're going to start seeing that more because it's just if you

00:29:33.620 can choose to create a to have a career or to lead the sexual life that you want in like the most

00:29:39.680 isolated and safe space like why wouldn't you like why would you add unnecessary risk um to that by

00:29:48.800 shooting with people that you don't know or for companies that you don't know and you know giving

00:29:53.060 away all of your rights to your content so I think it's going to happen for sure um Candice what do

00:29:59.260 you do if you know someone takes some of your content and puts it on a site like Pornhub which

00:30:05.700 is viewed around the world do you as a performer do you have any recourse to say look I disagree

00:30:12.180 with this could you take it down or is it once it's up there deal with it so you usually will

00:30:18.660 have your attorney send in like a DMCA form and then in one to two days it gets taken down and

00:30:24.200 then as soon as it's taken down it's back up and then the cycle just repeats so pretty much once

00:30:28.880 it's there it's there it just comes down for like these like really short moments

00:30:32.140 I mean that's isn't that that's awful isn't it it's infuriating I mean but but it's it's awful

00:30:42.460 not just infuriating because let's say you want to move on from that let's say you have the period

00:30:47.780 in your life where you thought this is what you wanted to do and because mainly the women are

00:30:52.680 young they're in their 20s I mean who knows what you're doing in your 20s and then you move on

00:30:57.580 maybe you want to become a lawyer or a doctor this thing will hang over you for the rest of

00:31:02.080 your life yeah and there's nothing that you can do so it's like how do you solve that problem and

00:31:07.780 unfortunately people don't really care so no one no one's caring and if you did that with let's

00:31:12.840 say like a universal picture it would be it would be down there would be massive fines and it

00:31:18.260 wouldn't happen again that doesn't exist in the adult space because it's like people don't want

00:31:22.360 to talk about it the argument is it shouldn't be happening anyways like you shouldn't be doing that

00:31:26.780 you know you were immoral so you have to deal with those consequences you made that decision

00:31:32.220 and I just find that to be very unfair just like you said a lot of people get in very young you

00:31:36.560 have no idea what you're doing or what you want to do at 18 years old and you make a lot of bad

00:31:41.440 decisions and I think if you make the decision and you end up saying oh shouldn't have done that

00:31:45.820 it's something as intimate as having sex on screen and you're like I own that I want to take it down

00:31:51.300 it shouldn't go back up yeah that no i totally agree with you on the one hand on the other hand

00:31:57.060 look at like twitter i mean anything you say as an 18 year old can and will be used against you

00:32:02.080 for the rest of your life right so i think we're all kind of stuck in that situation a little bit

00:32:07.680 where you can't do that but actually let's talk about how you deal as someone who's been in that

00:32:13.600 industry because i know you're you're a parent now and you've got a family and all of that

00:32:17.540 like how does that transition even work well so I was with my now husband throughout pretty much

00:32:26.080 my entire career like we had started dating um so I feel like that's a little bit unique I don't

00:32:31.960 know what dating while I was in my career especially at the height of it would have been

00:32:36.720 like that would have been probably like very um choppy waters but to me there there's of course

00:32:44.540 like a transition that comes with parenthood just like anyone else right like it's the person you

00:32:48.940 were before you had the baby and then after it's everything's turned upside down but the idea that

00:32:54.220 you can't be this sexual being and that side of you doesn't exist after you have a kid is nonsense

00:33:00.720 right so it's like we have this very sanitized version of what a mother is and that's all she

00:33:05.700 can be um and i think that you know there's a lot of facets to what we are and we're this we're a

00:33:12.400 whole person so like that sexual side of me hasn't gone away and didn't die once I became a mom

00:33:18.680 I think that makes people really uncomfortable well I'm sure it makes your husband very comfortable

00:33:23.400 but um no but my wife is uh is uh is pregnant right now so I'm very much hopeful she takes

00:33:30.940 congratulations thank you so much but look you alluded to the religious and moralizing side of

00:33:36.480 this. And I'd love to explore that with you because I'm not a religious person and I've

00:33:43.020 definitely watched porn in my life. And at the same time, I do have this like little voice at

00:33:49.480 the back of my head going, well, actually, this is kind of wrong. Why do you think we feel that

00:33:55.680 way? Is it accurate or is it just something we've been indoctrinated with? Or is it, you know,

00:34:00.580 some people would say, well, everything to do with sex is so intimate and sacred and special and

00:34:05.780 and should be between the people it happens between like where does that that voice come from

00:34:10.560 i think we're influenced by so many things we're influenced by our you know our religions our

00:34:16.520 cultures our societies the countries that we're born into i think a lot of that has um when you

00:34:22.900 watch them you're oh i don't know if this is good or not or you feel dirty i think there's still a

00:34:26.940 lot of residual shame when it comes to sexuality because of our religious past but i mean if you

00:34:34.240 look I mean sex is just it it's hand in hand with the human experience right like it's almost the

00:34:39.780 reason that we're here is to procreate right like it doesn't it feels good for a reason and erotica

00:34:46.040 has existed since we were able to draw and in caves like that again it's part of the human

00:34:52.040 experience I think when it started to I don't know be judged or be painted with this brush of fear

00:34:58.680 again is when you had people that were really pushing these Christian views on everyone and

00:35:03.100 on the pagans and like you can't do this you can't have these um you know what were they doing like

00:35:08.460 those like naked moon parties and they would have all of these orgies are like oh you heathens you

00:35:12.580 can't do that here's a bible right and it's sex can be whatever you want it to be there's nothing

00:35:18.460 wrong with monogamy there's nothing wrong if you think that it's supposed to be this spiritual

00:35:22.780 transcendent experience and it can absolutely be that thing but it can also be something that's

00:35:28.380 just frivolous and fun and um something that you're just taking out you know for like a joy

00:35:33.300 ride it can be all of these things and I think that you have to say like what is that shame

00:35:38.100 how is that shame serving you like is that something that you want is that how you want

00:35:42.880 um your mind and body to react when it comes to digesting sexual anything sexual right so

00:35:49.840 I don't know that's not the relationship I want with sex I think of course that's going to exist

00:35:55.680 with some content especially if you get into like the really violent stuff or stuff that's

00:35:59.780 like very taboo and that's probably there for a good cause but if you're watching something that's

00:36:04.840 we'll say like ethical porn that you know everyone is happy and you know willing to shoot i don't see

00:36:10.120 why you would want that feeling or justify that feeling what about the fact that a lot of men

00:36:17.260 feel like they're cheating on their partner by watching other people have sex do you agree with

00:36:21.480 that not at all and there's this actually this is a really interesting um note by esther perel so

00:36:26.940 she was saying in one of her talks that the idea that watching porn is cheating is unique to

00:36:33.100 heterosexual couples that that doesn't exist in in gay couples and i'm like that's so fascinating

00:36:38.840 um i think when it comes so like my mom's a great example for this like she's one of these women

00:36:46.480 And if she was dating a guy and he's like, oh, Kath Rosetta Jones is just such a babe.

00:36:52.060 I just love watching her and Zorro just acknowledging the beauty of someone else.

00:36:56.540 It would be over.

00:36:57.820 It would be this huge fight.

00:36:59.420 That's, you know, being unfaithful.

00:37:01.460 And that's where she draws her line.

00:37:02.920 And the idea that you can't appreciate other beauty without being unfaithful or without somehow tarnishing the relationship that you have, I think, is kind of ridiculous.

00:37:13.560 I think, do you want this really fragile relationship or do you want something that's anti-fragile?

00:37:18.940 So if your relationship is that delicate, where simply acknowledging someone else's beauty or appreciating it or masturbating to it is going to undo it all, I think that's kind of something to pay attention to.

00:37:34.240 Candice, do you think we're very hypocritical of our attitudes to sex and particularly for porn?

00:37:38.680 He doesn't just mean the two of us, by the way. He means society.

00:37:41.420 i mean if you if you look at the numbers right like if you look at how many unique

00:37:47.100 visits there are to pornhub i would say absolutely and why is that why do we have this

00:37:53.640 you know because as you say you know we all you know everybody has sex practically everybody if

00:37:58.880 you believe the numbers watches porn why do we have such weird attitudes to this i think right

00:38:05.200 now because again it's still considered so taboo it's still considered something that is primarily

00:38:10.800 for the purpose of child rearing um the idea that it's just for pleasure is still not

00:38:17.080 widely talked about even though we kind of intrinsically know that um we know that pleasure

00:38:22.600 is important uh they've done all so they try to do these sexual studies um and they find that

00:38:29.120 there's this book called a billion wicked thoughts and they kind of took a lot of these tube sites as

00:38:33.860 ways to get information as to what people are into and kinks and fetishes and all of these things

00:38:40.180 Because even when you're giving people what you would call anonymous forms, they still didn't feel like they could be honest.

00:38:46.900 So there's just something really deeply buried in us that is, again, linked to shame and judgment.

00:38:53.040 And we just feel like we can't be ourselves.

00:38:55.060 And then we wonder why we have unfulfilling sex lives with our partners because we can't have these conversations.

00:39:00.280 So I think it starts with the individual.

00:39:02.180 And it's like, again, how do you want to show up?

00:39:03.680 How do you want your relationship with sex to be?

00:39:05.640 And you get to decide that.

00:39:06.780 And you can undo everything that you've been taught.

00:39:08.900 and you can have this healthy relationship with it

00:39:10.960 and it doesn't have to be something

00:39:12.300 that's judged or shameful or bad.

00:39:16.600 You would think that in 2021

00:39:20.360 that we still wouldn't have

00:39:22.640 such a complicated attitude with the sexual act.

00:39:26.860 Do you think it's entirely to do with religion

00:39:28.820 or do you think it goes deeper than that?

00:39:32.560 That's a tough call.

00:39:33.880 I think, I think that we still have such a huge and we're still hugely influenced by religion. So I think that you can't ignore that, especially still in the States. Like that's, I would say the biggest argument about it. But I think we kind of like jumped a whole bunch of steps ahead.

00:39:54.300 so we went from let's just try to have an honest conversation about we'll talk about women's

00:39:59.700 sexuality and like their right to to pleasure to everyone needs to have an only fans and if you

00:40:05.380 don't accept that then you know then you're just a bigot and a misogynist and whatever and like

00:40:10.240 well that's like that's way on the other other end of the spectrum so I think it's um I don't

00:40:17.420 know it's finding again what's like important for you right and like and trying to distinguish

00:40:23.500 between what you've been taught and wired to think and feel versus like your authentic self

00:40:28.240 and you mentioned the word wired there uh candace and i was going to ask you about this because do

00:40:33.400 you not think i mean if we look at you know cross-culturally almost every society has some

00:40:38.360 sort of uh i'm gonna quote jordan peterson and get into a lot of trouble here so i won't quite

00:40:43.380 phrase it the way he did which when he said enforced monogamy and everybody went mental

00:40:47.620 But the idea that society encourages monogamous relationships between men and women, because that is the way that society kind of, you know, supports itself best and reproduces itself best.

00:41:02.120 Do you think maybe part of this is just evolutionary and evolutionary psychologically and

00:41:08.440 evolutionary biological in that we kind of need people to get together with one person

00:41:13.980 and bring up children?

00:41:15.640 And that's the most stable and safe environment for that.

00:41:18.480 And therefore, we try to sort of moralize ourselves into a bit of a straitjacket that

00:41:23.980 we think is necessary.

00:41:25.160 it so i don't i'm obviously not an evolutionary psychologist or evolutionary biologist i've

00:41:33.920 talked to some of them and i think it's interesting so i would say what are the numbers i was just

00:41:41.660 reading this today it's like almost like 80 percent of all of the women that exist have had

00:41:48.580 children and only 40 percent of men that have existed have had children so almost all men like

00:41:55.980 their lines have had children with multiple women and the vast majority of men have not had children

00:42:02.040 so if you just look at that number it would suggest that monogamy has not hasn't really

00:42:09.240 existed in the way that we think of it now where it's one man one woman for the rest of their lives

00:42:15.300 like men have tended to kind of stray so I would say part of that is like obviously the the

00:42:22.700 consequence of sex for a woman is huge especially especially before you know birth control so that

00:42:29.020 definitely plays a factor into it um and I would say a lot of it too is is so is social it's we

00:42:35.540 have not been allowed to be sexual you know outside of rearing children um until like the

00:42:42.420 most recent years. So I think it's kind of a combination of both. And what do you make of

00:42:48.260 the concept of slut shaming? This idea that women who have sex with lots of men, they are unfairly

00:42:56.400 treated because of it. And that there's nothing wrong with that at all. And it should be sort of

00:43:02.100 like everybody should just do what you want. I think that it comes down to just being a kind

00:43:07.300 person right so I think it's the wrong message to say there's absolutely nothing wrong with

00:43:14.640 sleeping with everyone and anyone right like there there's again some kind of boundary that

00:43:20.200 needs to happen I think someone that's having like copious amounts of sex with all of these

00:43:25.760 strangers and they're not being safe like there's something else happening there I think that's very

00:43:30.340 different than somebody who maybe like casually dates or sleeps with more people than the average

00:43:35.800 bear or whatever that's very different but I guess like what is the purpose of the slut shaming

00:43:41.460 usually like if you're you know throwing rocks at somebody else it has to do with an insecurity that

00:43:46.360 you have and I think for a lot of women in particular is that they for some reason they

00:43:51.120 think that if this one person is a little bit more sexually loose or liberated than they are

00:43:56.080 then like what they have is at stake so like you're now a direct threat to like everything that I

00:44:00.960 own and i'm building in my family and that's just um i would say like that's kind of an unjustified

00:44:07.480 tie that they're making hey constantin do you love trigonometry of course incredible interviews

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00:45:06.580 in the description and the pinned comment below see you there guys it's quite a tricky question

00:45:12.860 do you ever think that you'll ever regret your choices that you made maybe if you want to go

00:45:18.680 and do something else or if you decide one day you want to become a lawyer do you ever think that

00:45:23.060 that means that you would ever look back on your career and think to yourself that was a mistake

00:45:27.920 or do you simply think it's part of life's rich tapestry as it were yeah I would go with the

00:45:33.220 latter I think that every decision that I made um I mean it was authentic and it was right at

00:45:42.740 the time and to go back and be like well you know I regret this wouldn't really make sense for me

00:45:47.000 again it's it is part of who I am I think it's unfortunate that I've absolutely closed a lot of

00:45:54.920 opportunities by making that decision I mean even as of late my husband and I were trying to like

00:46:00.080 start this business and it was buying into this franchise and they were like you can't do it

00:46:04.780 because of you know my career and I was like that's really shitty and I can't get mad at them

00:46:09.740 because that's absolutely their right and they have shareholders and all of that like I totally

00:46:13.780 understand it but at the same time i can be disappointed so i i would say i'm not immune

00:46:19.160 to being disappointed because i don't get certain things that i've strived for even you know as of

00:46:23.960 recently but it's just owning my decisions and but again it goes back to the hypocrisy like where a

00:46:32.080 company will go well you know we don't want to be associated with her with her but i guarantee

00:46:37.040 every one of those men on the board everyone men and women but has has watched pornography

00:46:44.280 every one of those customers has watched pornography and yet you want to buy into a

00:46:49.520 franchise in the business and you were someone who worked into creating that content suddenly

00:46:54.520 that's beyond the pale to me that that that doesn't make sense it doesn't make any sense and

00:46:59.780 you can't change people you can only try to influence them and i think you're gonna find

00:47:05.580 like-minded people if you look hard enough, right? And that just wasn't my group. That wasn't going

00:47:11.100 to be someone that was going to be supportive of me or me as a franchisee. So I've met other people

00:47:17.040 that own, you know, a hundred plus million dollar companies and they're huge porn advocates. So like

00:47:22.040 I'm a huge, a porn fanatic and they go on to how they think it's great for society and mental

00:47:26.580 health and all of these things. And they get so mad when they hear stories like that. So it's just

00:47:31.020 finding people like that that want to support you and help grow with you and then just ignoring that

00:47:35.980 and then hoping that like that social climate just like slowly keeps changing to where it's not like

00:47:41.240 this permanent red a that i can't take off and do you consider yourself a feminist candace

00:47:47.480 i don't even know what that means anymore to be honest there's so many different iterations of

00:47:53.960 that i would say probably not because most of the ones that i've met i don't really align with

00:47:59.900 And maybe I'm meeting the wrong kind of feminist.

00:48:02.160 Like, I don't hate men.

00:48:03.340 I don't think that men are the same as women.

00:48:06.260 I think that we're very different.

00:48:07.560 I think that we need to appreciate those differences.

00:48:11.080 When it comes to sex, like, I know there's some feminists that are very anti-sex work

00:48:15.680 and some that are very pro.

00:48:17.020 So I have no idea what that word even means.

00:48:19.640 That's a very good answer, actually.

00:48:21.400 It sounds like an evasion, but actually it's exactly right,

00:48:25.040 because it's become this broad concept and some people use it pejoratively and some people use it

00:48:31.560 to praise people and and they all mean different things i suppose by the standard definition if

00:48:37.260 you think men and women are and should be treated equally then everybody sort of is right but but

00:48:43.180 it seems to have got complicated so do you find that feminists like you or feminists hate you or

00:48:50.900 you get different reactions from different types or like how what is your experience of dealing

00:48:55.820 with people i would say most of them probably don't like me i've heard that i've internalized

00:49:01.060 the patriarch and that i'm um what is the other one that like somehow i don't know that i'm being

00:49:09.620 exploited i don't like it's just it it takes away all of the intelligence from women like we we can't

00:49:17.060 make these decisions on our own we need someone to hold our hand and we need someone um to regulate

00:49:22.320 this so that we don't make this horrible mistake um so to me that would be anti-women right is

00:49:28.840 saying that we are lesser than we're dumber than um we're kind of like children in some sense so

00:49:34.100 i never really got along with those women and what have you learned from from your journey in

00:49:40.500 that particular industry? Because it must have been an experience where, how to put this, you

00:49:47.760 must have realized things about yourself, things about men in particular, things about sexuality

00:49:54.120 that the average person might never come across or might never discover.

00:49:59.500 Oh, man. That's a tough one. I would say that I think we were sold this story that, you know, if you own your sexuality and if you are pretty enough or if you're rich enough,

00:50:26.060 if you're famous enough, all of these things that that leads to, I would say, like being fulfilled

00:50:31.940 and happy. I think when I first got in and I first started getting recognized, it's almost like you

00:50:38.200 start getting drunk on all of those things and you start losing touch with reality. And I think

00:50:44.060 I learned that it's crucial and imperative that you have people around you to keep you grounded

00:50:50.260 and to keep you from floating away into that

00:50:54.920 because it's so easy to lose yourself

00:50:56.660 when you're, I guess, trying to please other people.

00:51:01.340 So I'd say one of the things I learned the most

00:51:03.560 was the value of trying to remain,

00:51:06.920 I would say, authentic and autonomous

00:51:11.380 and finding your purpose and self-worth internally

00:51:15.400 versus trying to get those external validations.

00:51:18.000 so I learned that probably magnified right because you start getting all of these followers and you

00:51:24.100 start getting all of these comments and it's like very easy to displace your values so I would say

00:51:29.260 like the importance of of your values of your social circle and then I would say of just like

00:51:35.020 saying no like that was like the most powerful thing I learned too in the industry is like how

00:51:40.140 to say no and no is a complete sentence and you don't have to explain anything and you have the

00:51:45.200 right to decide what to do with your body. And Candice, it strikes me before we ask our last

00:51:52.500 question, because our time is running out. It strikes me that you've had an experience of life

00:51:58.100 that the overwhelming majority of people haven't had. So as you look out into the broader culture

00:52:04.940 and the political moment and everything that's happening in the world, I imagine you have a very,

00:52:10.080 not a very a unique view on it is there anything that stands out for you now in terms of what's

00:52:16.680 happening in society what the stuff that we're we're talking about politically that you you

00:52:21.280 feel strongly about or have some input on i have a lot of opinions i would say i think it comes down

00:52:31.280 to to freedom right and it's gonna sound super vague and again um no i just sound super american

00:52:38.400 but i think that that's it you have to say like how much regulation do you want on anything like

00:52:46.460 what are you what are you owed as a human being like what are things that are yours that no one

00:52:52.400 should be able to take away um and i think it's also important to recognize like the the that

00:52:59.560 goes for your opponents too right so it's not freedom just to do the things that you want and

00:53:04.700 not the freedom for people to do the things that you don't want. It kind of has to go across the

00:53:09.060 board and how do we coexist together, right? Like that's also kind of something I've had to deal

00:53:14.420 with too, especially living in the South. It's like, how do you, how do you still be kind to

00:53:19.280 someone with, you don't have to agree with my decisions or my career or my views on sexuality

00:53:24.520 to still treat me like a human being. So how do we take that, you know, 10,000 feet away and say

00:53:30.740 that maybe for on a political scale like I might not agree with who you voted for I might not agree

00:53:35.620 on the way that you look at lockdown measurements but like we're still all humans so how do we get

00:53:41.520 back to a place where we recognize that humanity especially in the people opposite the end of the

00:53:46.080 table of us that's a really really really good it's a really powerful yeah it's true because

00:53:54.420 at the moment we we don't do that anymore we don't do that we seem to have lost that ability

00:53:59.160 we seem to have lost that ability and it's really sad before our final question is there anything

00:54:04.800 that you would change about the industry is there anything that you would you would want to just

00:54:10.060 you know be improved oh for sure i mean starting with paywalls for any explicit content um starting

00:54:17.980 with the creators owning their content and having like an equal say as to whether it's published or

00:54:23.160 whether it gets taken down um and then what we talked about earlier which is if you decide that

00:54:28.020 you know that's no longer what represents you that that content can be removed and it can't

00:54:33.220 be put back up so that people can continue to grow evolve and have a life after porn

00:54:38.760 well we're about to do a couple of questions for our locals so it's behind a paywall so you'll

00:54:44.480 approve of that but before we do that we've got one final question for you which is as always

00:54:49.540 what's the one thing that we're not talking about as a society that we really should be

00:54:53.660 yeah and again i think it goes back to to humanity and how do we recognize the humanity

00:55:00.480 and people that think different that look different that um maybe live different lifestyles

00:55:06.120 and just going back to treating people like people and being kind it's interesting that that idea

00:55:12.640 has become quite like quite difficult for people now because i always thought that you know i'm

00:55:18.620 from Russia originally out and that was not something you have a lot of there it's certainly

00:55:24.760 not in my experience but coming to the west it was sort of my my belief maybe naively and mistakenly

00:55:30.440 like this is the place where that's what you do right like you can go and be a porn star if that's

00:55:34.980 what you want to do and as long as you're not being coerced or forced into it you know I may

00:55:40.320 agree or disagree or whatever but there's you know you're a human being I'm a human being you

00:55:44.180 have the right to do that I have the right to do a show that people don't like whatever right

00:55:48.220 and we just seem to have kind of eroded that quite recently do you have any thoughts on why

00:55:53.740 that is before we before we let you go i don't know if it's like a single factor i would definitely

00:56:01.140 say it comes back to maybe that social autism that people are coining which is spending too

00:56:06.700 much time like on on screens and less face-to-face time and we're not being trained in like empathy

00:56:13.560 and we're not recognizing that anymore.

00:56:16.060 I think it's very easy to be cruel

00:56:17.740 when there's those different layers

00:56:20.340 that like separate us, right?

00:56:21.860 It's so much easier to write a nasty comment

00:56:23.980 or a tweet than it is to say something to someone's face.

00:56:26.940 So I think it comes back to spending more time grounded

00:56:29.500 in the real world and less time on your phone.

00:56:32.380 That's a very good point.

00:56:34.360 Candice, where can people find your work online

00:56:36.760 before we ask you our other questions?

00:56:38.920 You can go to chattingwithcandice.com

00:56:41.420 and that has all my Candice socials

00:56:43.100 Or you can follow me on Twitter, which is where I spend way too much time, which is FallenLovia.

00:56:48.940 Fantastic.

00:56:50.000 So thank you very much for coming on the show.

00:56:51.980 We really appreciate your time.

00:56:53.160 Thank you.

00:56:53.940 And thank you for watching and listening, guys.

00:56:56.340 We'll see you very soon with another brilliant interview like this one or or show.

00:57:00.320 All of them go out 7 p.m. UK time.

00:57:02.140 And for those of you who like your trigonometry on the go, it's also available as a podcast.

00:57:07.300 Take care and see you soon, guys.

00:57:09.800 We hope you've enjoyed this incredible interview.

00:57:12.460 Remember to subscribe and hit the bell button so that you never miss another fantastic episode.

00:57:18.700 And if you believe that the work we do here at Trigonometry is important,

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TRIGGERnometry - January 17, 2022

The TRUTH About Porn with Eva Lovia

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