TRIGGERnometry - November 18, 2021


The Truth About TRIGGERnometry Part 2


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 35 minutes

Words per Minute

128.83743

Word Count

12,309

Sentence Count

1,154

Misogynist Sentences

13

Hate Speech Sentences

18


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster.
00:00:09.720 I'm Constantine Kissin and welcome to this very special part two of our discussion with me and
00:00:14.800 Francis. This time we're going to be talking about the big things that we think are coming up
00:00:19.720 in the next couple of years, the things that we're going to be focusing on, the guests we're going
00:00:23.280 to be targeting and the types of conversations we think are going to be needed. And also why I
00:00:28.020 really don't like Stuart Lee's comedy. And of course, for those of you who are on Locals,
00:00:31.860 you've submitted a bunch of questions, which we'll be answering and putting up on Locals only for
00:00:36.660 those of you who want to check it out. So Francis, without any further ado, mate, we talked about
00:00:41.260 the past of the show, where we've come from. If people haven't seen that already, I actually think
00:00:45.720 a lot of people will be quite shocked at the journey that we've had so far and perhaps at some of the
00:00:51.080 lowest lows and where we've come from and how it was when we started. But we've done a couple of
00:00:56.500 these in the past where we call them trigonometry destroys trigonometry. And that's just me
00:01:02.080 interviewing you, you interviewing me. And we thought, given that we've just moved on to a new
00:01:07.220 set, that we've got a whole new thing going on. It also seems to be a sort of interesting time
00:01:13.260 because hopefully, I think it's fair to say, is it, certainly in the UK at least, that COVID is
00:01:19.200 starting to die down? Are we going to be that optimistic, do you think?
00:01:24.080 Well, look, in the UK, as thing stands, on whatever day it is, I think it's the 13th of
00:01:29.040 November now.
00:01:29.880 As we're recording it.
00:01:30.740 Yeah, as we're recording it, it does look like the threat of COVID is receding. We're not seeing
00:01:37.000 the numbers of hospitalisations or deaths that we saw last winter or indeed at the first stage of
00:01:43.120 the pandemic. So you would hope so. However, if you look at around the world, Austria has just now
00:01:50.400 gone into a lockdown for unvaccinated people. I think the Dutch are proposing a lockdown or
00:01:57.120 they're about to go into a lockdown. Australia's just shit the bed. And New Zealand, they've gone
00:02:03.420 absolutely insane.
00:02:05.600 But what I mean, though, is, I mean, it's going to get to a point eventually where the numbers are
00:02:10.180 just so low. You can't really carry on with this, right? I mean, it's going to become endemic. In
00:02:16.140 the UK, people are arguing it already has and possibly in other parts around the world. The
00:02:21.740 economics of this are also unsustainable and we'll maybe talk about that in a minute. But I do feel,
00:02:26.820 at least maybe today, tomorrow could be different, but I do feel that my prediction that I made
00:02:31.880 earlier, which is there would be another lockdown this winter, doesn't seem to be true in the UK.
00:02:35.920 No.
00:02:35.980 It's been true in other countries, but in the UK, it's not, which suggests to me that the vaccine
00:02:41.980 has worked to reduce the number of people in hospital and the number of people dying to a point
00:02:47.380 where as a society, you know, Christopher Snowden, who will hopefully get on the show soon,
00:02:52.120 he's just written an article talking about how basically COVID, with people vaccinated at the
00:02:57.080 level that they are now, COVID is like the flu, which we've just lived with and we have done for
00:03:02.540 generations. So I think I'm optimistic that other things are going to start to be the thing that
00:03:10.260 everyone cares about because my concern with COVID, once the initial mass wave of people dying and all
00:03:15.900 of that happening was passed, was that because we're all so obsessed about COVID all the time,
00:03:21.800 there are actually a lot of other issues that are going unnoticed, uncovered, undiscussed.
00:03:27.660 Some of them are a consequence of COVID, some of them are a consequence of lockdown, some of them
00:03:31.940 are just a consequence of where we are as a society. And those things are going to start popping up.
00:03:37.380 And we can talk about more of that. The number one thing for me is inflation. It's already happening.
00:03:42.680 If you remember at the beginning of COVID, we interviewed Pippa Malmgren and Jim Rickardt,
00:03:47.380 and this was what they said. They said inflation is coming and now it's here. A lot of people aren't
00:03:52.720 aware of it because the media haven't started covering it. But the reality is, if we go back
00:03:57.700 to 2008, our response to the financial crisis was essentially to empty the medicine cupboard.
00:04:04.660 We threw everything at it. And by everything, I mean, we printed a ton of money. We dropped interest
00:04:09.440 rates to historically unprecedented levels. And they've been there ever since, basically, right?
00:04:15.740 That isn't, that's not how, that's not a sustainable thing over the long term. And yet we've been at it
00:04:20.800 for 13 years now. So add to that the huge cost of furlough and lockdown and the hit to the economy
00:04:30.060 and all of that, you're going to see prices rising. You already are seeing that in some other things.
00:04:35.500 And partly that's to do with supply chain issues, but partly it's to do with the fact that if you
00:04:38.860 have more money chasing fewer goods, you're going to get inflation. And what that means is people's
00:04:43.080 savings get eroded, et cetera. So I think economics is going to start to come back to the table,
00:04:49.280 which ironically is where the show started. If you think about our first few episodes,
00:04:53.060 that's what we talked about, because that was one of the biggest issues at the time.
00:04:57.380 Yeah. And it was because of Brexit. And we were talking about economics in relation to Brexit.
00:05:01.580 No, what you're saying is 100% accurate. Plus factoring in the price of goods are going to rise.
00:05:07.400 Things like petrol, that's already rising. We literally went to the petrol station yesterday
00:05:12.400 and you were shocked at how much it had risen. Fuel prices are going to rise. So they're talking
00:05:18.260 about people's utility bills increasing by something by 25, if not 50%.
00:05:24.440 And that's before Greta get her hands on it as well.
00:05:26.460 Yeah, exactly. So these are all going to be up for discussion. I don't think COVID is going to go
00:05:33.100 away. And I'll tell you why. And this is going to make me sound like a conspiracy theorist.
00:05:37.400 COVID is a very powerful tool because it creates fear in people. And once you create fear in people,
00:05:43.340 they become easier to manipulate. That therefore means they become easier for you to get what you
00:05:51.960 want. The government can get what they want far easier when the populists are afraid and they're
00:05:57.040 scared. But you're suggesting they're going to keep COVID running even when the numbers aren't high,
00:06:01.760 are you? I'm going to say that they're going to use any opportunity they can to try and get
00:06:06.020 vaccine passports in place. Why do you think that? Why do I think that? Why do you think that's what
00:06:11.420 they want? Why do I think that's what they want? Because they want to be able to essentially monitor
00:06:17.720 our whereabouts at all points. I just think that's the way things are. I think data is power. Being
00:06:24.560 able to track your citizens means that you have power. The part of the vaccine passport situation is
00:06:31.180 just another way in order to track people. And I think they're going to want to bring us in.
00:06:36.620 My partner went to America. And look, this is an example of what is happening. And we need to talk
00:06:42.460 about this because I don't think people really understand. My partner went to New York. Where
00:06:47.820 she's from? Everything in New York is vax passport, vax passport, vax passport. You literally can't go in
00:06:55.020 to a coffee shop and grab a coffee without showing a vax passport. That's where it is, right?
00:07:02.620 Now, she went to a conference as part of her job. When she got admitted into the conference center,
00:07:08.440 the security guards and the people at the desk went to, we need to show your vaccination status.
00:07:12.440 She said, okay, here's my card. Right this way, miss. We're also going to need to take your
00:07:17.060 temperature. She said, right, okay. They took her temperature. But at the same time as taking
00:07:22.560 her temperature, they also scanned her face. And because she's very aware and very up on tech and
00:07:28.480 the issues around tech, she went, hold on a second. I gave you permission to scan my temperature or to
00:07:33.920 take my temperature. I did not give you permission to scan my face. My worry, and I've got a sneaking
00:07:42.200 suspicion the government are going to do this. They're going to use it as an opportunity to
00:07:46.920 track us and grab our data. And that can be anything from facial scans right the way through
00:07:53.840 to whatever else is going to happen that I'm not technologically au fait with. And for those of you
00:08:00.040 who are watching this, listening to me, going to me, oh, you're a conspiracy theorist, blah, blah, blah,
00:08:04.340 smoking too much weed. Guilty of that probably. However, my question to you would be, what's happened
00:08:11.520 to cash? No one's talking about it, but cash has disappeared. For example, you go to Pret-a-Manger
00:08:17.820 in London, they no longer accept cash. There are many branches of chains right the way through
00:08:25.960 the city of London that no longer accept cash. Do you not think that's a good thing? It's just
00:08:30.020 convenient. No, I don't think it's a good thing. Because cash is very, very important. Cash, number
00:08:36.120 one, is a way for you not to be tracked. It's a way for the government to have nothing to do
00:08:41.780 with your finances, with your financial transactions. The government saw COVID as an
00:08:49.640 opportunity to get rid of cash, to take cash off the table. Do you remember why they said that we
00:08:54.780 couldn't have cash? Yeah, it's because you could pass COVID through physical contact. Okay, but that
00:09:00.020 has now been debunked. Well, they said a lot of things that have been debunked, right? Yeah.
00:09:04.040 Okay, and give them their due. We didn't know at the time. But cash isn't coming back. I'm telling
00:09:11.040 you that now. Cash is not coming back. Everything will now be on card. They've increased the limit
00:09:17.800 on card to £100 with the tap. So that therefore makes it easier again. It is just another way for
00:09:27.000 them to be able to track us more effectively. Yeah, and I think maybe if you just talk about it from a
00:09:33.320 sort of power grab point of view, people will think you're being conspiratorial about it. But actually,
00:09:37.620 if you look at it from a government point of view, well, this is a way to help people. It's a way to
00:09:44.440 track people's health status so you can get them the right help. That's how people will be justifying
00:09:49.380 it potentially in their head. So I see what you're saying. It's interesting because I'm not sure they're
00:09:55.640 going to be able to get vaccine passports through in this country. They've already got them through in
00:09:59.540 Scotland and they've already got them through in Wales. That is very true. So they are going to do
00:10:05.000 everything they possibly can. Everything they possibly can. Right. We were talking about you
00:10:12.940 and I doing gigs in Scotland and because we've got a big Scottish audience and we were talking about
00:10:18.540 getting a Scottish guest and talking about everything. There's not many of them, but they are big.
00:10:21.780 Yeah, exactly. You're going to make that joke in Glasgow. I'm going to leave and you can deal with
00:10:27.760 the consequences. But you need vax passports now in Scotland. So they've got them in Wales.
00:10:34.640 They've got them in Scotland. Why are they not going to try and bring them here?
00:10:39.200 Well, I think two years ago I would have said because we've got a libertarian in power,
00:10:44.940 but I don't think we found that to be the case. So you think the fight for civil liberties in terms
00:10:50.460 of the government surveillance, government controlling and tracking your movements, etc.,
00:10:55.400 that's going to be one of the big issues that stays on the table.
00:10:58.120 Yeah. The government under COVID laws abolished the right to protest. I'm going to say that again,
00:11:05.020 just for people who didn't understand that. They abolished the right to protest.
00:11:08.300 What do you mean?
00:11:09.320 It meant that you couldn't congregate in past groups of five in order to protest,
00:11:14.340 in order to make your feelings heard.
00:11:16.280 Because of the pandemic.
00:11:17.380 Because of the pandemic.
00:11:18.160 But surely once the pandemic is over, that will come back, people might say.
00:11:21.200 Right. Okay. Yeah. But the only reason it came back was because of the outcry
00:11:25.160 about what happened with the Sarah Everard murder, where there was a women's vigil.
00:11:30.160 Right. If it was anti-lockdown protesters, no one would give a shit.
00:11:33.440 The only reason people were outraged is because that picture went viral
00:11:36.880 of that police officer kneeling on that woman's back.
00:11:40.040 And as Ella Whelan made the point, that happens all the time, including to women,
00:11:44.240 but no one gives a shit as long as they've got the wrong opinions.
00:11:46.540 Exactly. But that was the only reason. And suddenly people woke up and were like,
00:11:50.860 this is disgusting. I'm like, oh yeah, but when it's anti-lockdown,
00:11:53.860 when it's something that you disagree with, then it's fine. Then people are stupid.
00:11:57.920 Then people are selfish. And people, you know, all the epithets that get hurled.
00:12:01.860 What people don't seem to realise is we have the right to protest,
00:12:05.200 not for causes I believe in or you believe in, but because it's vital for a democratic society.
00:12:11.040 And what happened over COVID is we became a police state.
00:12:14.040 Which brings us, I think, onto the third issue that is going to be very big
00:12:19.200 in the next couple of years or possibly beyond. And this is something actually to give him his due.
00:12:24.560 Matthew Goodwin predicted on the show a long time ago is the politics of climate change.
00:12:29.520 Because it's obviously been ramped up in recent weeks and months, but you can see the...
00:12:39.040 I want to be careful because, you know, it's something you're not supposed to say about
00:12:44.220 climate change, but I don't know what the truth is about that issue. I genuinely don't.
00:12:50.640 I have other concerns related to the environment. I think resource depletion and pollution are very
00:12:57.660 big issues that need to be tackled one way or another, right? Without all this hysteria and all
00:13:02.720 this craziness. But they are issues that are big environmental issues. Whether human activity
00:13:09.240 is the main driver of climate change. I'm not a scientist. I can't make a determination either
00:13:15.800 way. Like most people, I make my conclusions about this issue based on what other people
00:13:20.720 I respect say. And what I would say about that is I keep being told that 99.999% of the scientists
00:13:27.180 agree, blah, blah, blah. And it is true that a lot of people that I respect agree that climate
00:13:34.240 change is caused by human beings. I also would say that a lot of people, including scientists I know
00:13:40.000 personally who I respect, are skeptical of that. Fewer, far fewer, but there are some, right? So I
00:13:47.980 genuinely don't know the truth of that issue. But what I do think is if under the guise of dealing
00:13:53.200 with climate change, we focused our resources on creating stable energy supplies from things
00:13:59.020 like nuclear power, for example, which I don't know why green people don't want to talk about
00:14:02.980 as much. And we dealt with pollution, which is a huge issue. And we dealt with resource depletion,
00:14:08.760 which is a huge issue. That wouldn't be a bad thing. But the focus doesn't seem to be on that.
00:14:13.140 The focus seems to be on this sort of AOC, the world's ending in 12 years sort of hysteria. Now,
00:14:19.500 there's a generation of people coming through now. And you see this with the protests that are
00:14:24.440 happening increasingly around the world. They literally believe that. They believe the world
00:14:29.960 is ending in 12 years. Now, imagine if you believed the world was ending in 12 years,
00:14:34.360 you'd be able, you'd not be able to, you'd be willing to take some pretty drastic action.
00:14:40.080 Glue yourself to a road.
00:14:41.400 Well, quite a lot more. Imagine you genuinely thought, like, my wife and I are about to have
00:14:47.240 our first child. What would I be willing to do if I thought the world is actually ending in 11
00:14:53.780 years from now as a father? What would you be willing to do? Quite a lot. Yeah, of course.
00:15:01.920 Right? I mean...
00:15:03.380 Depends if I've had breakfast.
00:15:04.880 Yeah, exactly. In your case, it does. But do you see what I'm saying?
00:15:07.800 Of course.
00:15:08.240 If you take this point of view literally, and that is one thing I think is complete rubbish,
00:15:13.620 by the way. I don't think the world is ending in 12 years. I think that's nonsense.
00:15:17.980 But if you do believe that, then you are going to glue yourself to a road.
00:15:22.980 Yeah.
00:15:23.400 And that's going to be the starting point. I mean, if you indoctrinate people with that level
00:15:28.240 of fear, you talked about fear with COVID, right? What about the world ending in 12 years?
00:15:34.180 I mean, that's going to scare a lot of people, particularly young people, as it already has.
00:15:37.220 Because I think the politics of climate change, or the politics of the environment, or whatever
00:15:43.240 green politics, whatever you want to call it, that's going to get bigger and bigger and bigger.
00:15:48.280 And even you and I have had our arguments about this on Raw. You know, I remember you
00:15:51.660 and I were talking about whether Extinction Rebellion are extremists and all of that, right?
00:15:56.280 That is going to be a huge issue going forward, I think. Because the political and economic
00:16:02.120 consequences of that are going to be gigantic.
00:16:04.900 To me, the giant flaw in... And look, I'm from your position. The one thing... Not the
00:16:12.180 one thing. One of the things that trigonometry has given me is humility. The realisation...
00:16:17.380 That's what happens when you work with me. Just the greatness. Being in the presence of
00:16:21.500 greatness, mate.
00:16:22.060 Exactly. But that's enough about Anton. Right. But it's a realisation that I don't know
00:16:27.580 a lot. And when it comes to a subject like climate change, I know nothing. I genuinely
00:16:33.160 don't. I know nothing. I know nothing. I'm not a scientist. I'm not an expert. I haven't
00:16:37.660 followed this story. I haven't delved deeply into it. I just haven't had the time. But the
00:16:43.160 one thing that I find very worrying is you look at the person, the most prominent figure
00:16:49.060 in this entire movement, and it's Greta Thunberg.
00:16:51.780 She's an 18-year-old kid who missed the last few years at school and is then put on a platform
00:17:03.060 and lecturing us. She doesn't even have a degree in this. She doesn't have a master. She doesn't
00:17:09.000 have a PhD. If it was some scientist who'd been studying this for 30 years and had won awards or
00:17:16.000 it was widely regarded and came out and said, look, here's the data. Here's my research.
00:17:23.100 This is what I think. Here are the reasons why we're going to look at this over it. Then
00:17:27.760 I'd go, OK.
00:17:28.560 Well, people would argue that scientists have been doing that and people haven't been listening.
00:17:35.920 And the reason Greta has worked as... Forget about her as a person, just as a device,
00:17:41.800 as a prop, is that she embodies the panic that people feel about what's coming as a result
00:17:54.560 of climate change. Because I think... Here's the reality. Because I am not convinced that
00:18:01.280 it's happening, but I am also not convinced that it's not happening. I genuinely don't know
00:18:04.600 due to human activity. Then what people are saying is scary. And it's not scary in the sense
00:18:13.160 of, oh, East London is going to be underwater. It's scary in the sense of, if the sea levels
00:18:19.700 do rise significantly around the world, what that means is a lot of people are going to
00:18:23.320 be displaced, which is going to make the migrant crisis of 2015 and recent years and all of that
00:18:30.040 look like a walk in the park. You're going to get billions of people displaced and moving,
00:18:37.180 obviously, to the West. So even from that perspective, it's going to cause a lot of problems.
00:18:43.280 War, famine, starvation, et cetera. So I think the reason Greta works is that she's almost like,
00:18:53.420 it's not a scientist. Even the kids get it now. Do you know what I mean?
00:18:56.640 And why are you, dinosaur, not getting with the program? I think that's why her chastising
00:19:03.320 people, I think, is such a big part of their appeal. Because it's that sort of, even the
00:19:10.220 kids get it. Why don't you, you old-fashioned, you know, whatever idiot. I think that's why
00:19:15.460 it's working.
00:19:16.520 Okay. I get that's why it's working. I'm just saying it's not credible.
00:19:20.920 Well, people would argue she's standing on the shoulders of scientists who've been talking
00:19:26.040 about this for a long time more sensibly, but they're being ignored. That's why you need the
00:19:31.480 sort of panic attack approach.
00:19:35.000 Right. I don't think that's a way to do things. I just see a movement figureheaded by an 18-year-old
00:19:43.320 girl as inherently ridiculous. As ridiculous. And I don't care if, you know, she's briefed well
00:19:50.900 or whatever else. She's a kid. She's a young girl. Why is it that she's been put on this
00:19:57.720 platform? And the thing that I find very dis... And look, I'm not attacking... I'm genuinely
00:20:03.780 not attacking Greta. I'm going to... We make a lot of jokes about Greta. I'm going to be
00:20:08.500 honest with you. I feel deeply sorry for her. I feel deeply, deeply sorry for her. Insert
00:20:15.400 jokes I used to teach. But I used to teach 15-year-olds. They're children. Nobody should
00:20:21.360 be put in that position. As an adult, really, it's not going to be good for you and it's
00:20:26.820 not going to be healthy for you.
00:20:27.560 We talked about this in the first part of our conversation when I was talking about my
00:20:31.480 experience of being in a much smaller media storm than she's been in. And I was saying
00:20:36.780 that I'm probably one of the more mentally resilient people on the planet. And yet, it's not
00:20:41.700 easy to deal with at all. For her, particularly given that she's autistic and I have autistic
00:20:46.860 people in my family. I understand them pretty well. It makes life a lot harder, I would imagine,
00:20:52.300 in this situation. And other mental health issues that she's got going on, it's definitely not
00:20:57.620 the kind thing to do for her.
00:20:58.960 No. And she's a child.
00:21:01.520 Well, not anymore.
00:21:02.600 No, not anymore. But at that point...
00:21:03.900 I'm glad I had to specify that, mate. It's a good look with this tash.
00:21:06.920 Yeah. But she's a child. She was a child. And at that point,
00:21:11.600 when she became this global celebrity, she had no idea what that was going to entail,
00:21:17.880 what that was going to mean for her life, for her future, for the way people saw her.
00:21:23.620 Right from that point, she became a celebrity. Every relationship moving forward has been
00:21:30.840 fundamentally changed because she's become an icon. And as a result of that, she's not going
00:21:37.400 to know who's going to be her real friends when she gets a partner, that partner. Are
00:21:40.980 they with her because she is... They like her, they love her for who she is?
00:21:47.180 They want a bit of green action.
00:21:48.320 Yeah. Or is it because she's Greta Thunberg?
00:21:52.440 You... I see it personally as an act of great cruelty because I don't think a 15-year-old has
00:21:58.420 a capacity to consent to what happened to her because they have no way of understanding...
00:22:04.680 Consequences.
00:22:05.620 A, consequences, but B, that level of consequence and that level of fame.
00:22:09.660 I don't think we understand what it must be like to be that famous.
00:22:12.620 No. No, we don't. We don't. But come back to the climate thing because, look, the Greta
00:22:18.740 thing is... I agree with you, but it's very, you know, it's tangential to the issue, I think.
00:22:26.080 I think even if Greta wasn't around, it would still be a big...
00:22:30.120 Of course.
00:22:30.700 It'd still be a big issue. So I think that's going to be the next big thing. Well, it's
00:22:37.900 not the next big thing. It's one of the next big things. And the problem is that the reason
00:22:42.960 I am very sceptical about it... Like I say, I don't not believe... I genuinely... If I
00:22:48.580 didn't think climate change was man-made, I would say so. But I'm not sure that I can
00:22:54.180 say that. I'm agnostic about it, is the truth. But the problem is the solutions that are being
00:23:00.960 offered don't make much sense to me. And I'll tell you why. Nuclear energy is, statistically
00:23:10.260 speaking, as far as I understand, at least, and I say this as someone... My wife grew
00:23:14.600 up next to Chernobyl. She had to be evacuated from that area when it happened. So I understand
00:23:19.760 the potential risks. But statistically speaking, nuclear energy is the safest form of energy
00:23:24.960 that we have.
00:23:26.020 Yeah.
00:23:26.760 Right? And every time you see these drives to, you know, get people to buy electric cars
00:23:32.840 or... Like I bought a diesel car 10 years ago, whenever it was, because I was told this
00:23:38.100 is the... For long drives or whatever, it's much more energy efficient. Then it turns out
00:23:44.800 it's not. Now we're being told we should buy electric cars. Well, it turns out electric
00:23:48.420 cars are not energy efficient either. And it turns out that, yeah, you can make electric
00:23:53.100 batteries. But in order to do that, you've got to get, you know, a 14-year-old African
00:23:56.540 kid mining cobalt in the mines. Do you know what I mean? So the renewable energy that people
00:24:03.320 keep telling us is the next big thing, it's not reliable at the moment and it's not cost
00:24:08.300 efficient at the moment. Right? So I'm just... My concern is I don't know what's true, but
00:24:15.380 what I do know is that the suggestions that we're being given are, number one, not very
00:24:19.780 effective. And number two, that you're talking about doubling people's heating bills?
00:24:24.140 Really? The answer to everything at the moment seems to be that we've got to pay more tax and
00:24:32.300 have fewer freedoms. Yeah. Right? I'm not sure I'm on board with that. In fact, I'm pretty
00:24:37.080 sure I'm not. Well, did you not vote for Corbyn? Surprisingly not, mate. So that's why I'm
00:24:44.860 sceptical is that, look, we can have a sensible conversation about climate or resource depletion
00:24:52.000 or pollution and I think we should. But I'm not sure the answer realistically, even if
00:24:58.300 the answer is to get people to pay more, I just don't know that you're going to be able
00:25:02.020 to achieve that. Yeah.
00:25:03.280 And I always think a lot of the answer is going to come from technology, technological progress
00:25:09.300 rather than panic. And that's, like I said, I think that's going to be a big issue and we're
00:25:15.840 going to have to talk to more people who can explain to us more about it that we don't
00:25:19.780 understand. And in the next few weeks, we'll hopefully get Michael Schellenberger on and
00:25:26.000 Bjorn Lombok as well. A couple of people who are sort of halfway on these issues. I think
00:25:32.800 we'll see what exactly they say. But I want to be educated on this issue more because I
00:25:38.860 don't understand it very well.
00:25:41.080 Hey, Konstantin, do you like Christmas?
00:25:43.940 No. In USSR, we cancelled Christmas and we had Leninfest instead.
00:25:48.320 What's that?
00:25:48.780 We celebrated glorious leader and rewrote story of Jesus to make it better.
00:25:53.720 Really?
00:25:54.320 Yes. In our story, three wise men were killed and gifts meant for Jesus redistributed to
00:25:59.440 glorious workers of the Soviet Union. Jesus was put on gulag for having wrong opinion.
00:26:04.620 As we call it in Russia, happy ending.
00:26:07.160 Right. Well, if you do want to celebrate the festive season, then there's only one way to
00:26:12.240 do it. Grab yourself a ticket to our final live show of the year at the Leicester Square
00:26:17.940 Theatre on Saturday, December the 11th.
00:26:20.820 Yes. It is discussion with one of our favorite guests, Aisha Akanbi. She is almost as good
00:26:26.920 philosopher as Vladimir Lenin.
00:26:29.160 Yeah, exactly. Our two previous shows sold out completely. And this one will as well.
00:26:36.240 Grab your ticket now before it's too late.
00:26:38.860 Click on link below. During interval, there will be special entertainment. I will ride
00:26:44.140 bear with my shirt off.
00:26:46.000 I didn't realize we were going for that demographic, mate.
00:26:48.780 Oh, yes, we are.
00:26:50.080 Excellent.
00:26:50.480 And that's the point. The problem is, is that when you look at the climate change debate,
00:27:00.120 to me, it's encased in hyperbole. We've got, what have I heard? We've got 50 good harvests
00:27:07.620 left. That's one thing I've heard.
00:27:10.880 I can see why they're in trouble.
00:27:11.800 Yeah, yeah. That would really upset me. The fact that, you know, that certain parts of
00:27:16.720 the world will be underwater, that other parts will be on fire, that other parts will become
00:27:21.680 uninhabitable, that the fires in Australia and California are just a starter. And then
00:27:32.280 what we're going to see is going to be even worse over the coming years.
00:27:35.840 And you're looking at this, and I don't see, I can't see sensible, rational discussion about
00:27:47.100 it.
00:27:47.120 Well, for starters, in terms of fires and other individual climate events, no legitimate scientist
00:27:52.440 would ever claim to be able to directly correlate an individual fire, which have been happening
00:27:57.680 for millennia, for millions of years, in fact, with a specific trend in the climate.
00:28:04.120 Yeah. You can't, no, no credible scientist would claim to be able to prove that sort of
00:28:09.880 causality. And we had this situation the other day with this COP26 happening. And some, it
00:28:16.020 was someone, I think, from a major, major news organization who said, I'm on the train to
00:28:21.080 Glasgow. There's leaves caused by climate change on, on the tracks. Right. People are now starting
00:28:27.180 to, to pretend that everything is to do with climate change. Well, actually, is that really
00:28:32.600 true? Do you know what I mean? And the more this hysteria continues, the harder it's going
00:28:36.440 to be to believe. Yeah. Yeah. And look, I'm going to be honest with you. When it's this
00:28:41.460 doomsday prophecies, I don't want to engage with it. When it's things, you know, you read
00:28:50.000 an article about how everything's dead, that, you know, there's, the oceans are empty. There
00:28:55.700 are no more fish. You go, well, what's the point? What's the point? You need to give people
00:29:02.880 a sense of hope. That they can do something about it. I think it's really important that
00:29:11.420 we sit down and actually have a proper discussion about this. Actually have a proper discussion
00:29:16.220 instead of what it feels like, which is fear mongering.
00:29:19.260 We will. We will definitely do that. We've got guests coming up and we'll keep exploring
00:29:23.380 that issue. But let's talk about cultural stuff, because so far we've talked about the
00:29:27.200 big chunky things, which was actually one of the things, one of the reasons we started
00:29:32.040 the show. We wanted to discuss the big serious issues, economics, you know, politics, all of
00:29:37.260 that sort of thing. Climate, yeah.
00:29:38.600 Yeah. And, you know, it wasn't a big issue at the time, but it has become one. What about
00:29:43.780 culture? What do you see as the cultural issues that keep coming up? Do you think, do you
00:29:49.240 think they went, you know, I say they, the sort of woke left, they went for race, they
00:29:54.860 went. So the way I see it is they started with feminism, right? And they tried to alienate
00:30:01.220 men from women and women from men. And it didn't quite work. Yeah. Right. Now you're starting
00:30:06.380 to see a big pushback in America, particularly where this stuff really originated against critical
00:30:11.560 race theory, against teaching white people that they're guilty and teaching black people
00:30:15.720 that they're oppressed. And you're starting to see some successes in that fight back.
00:30:20.860 Parents going into schools and saying, we won't stand for this. Elections are now being
00:30:24.660 turned on this issue, et cetera. Do you think the race thing is going to die down?
00:30:32.560 Or do you think it's going to run and run?
00:30:34.120 I think, look, I think part of this is again to do with COVID. And I think we descended into
00:30:42.320 insanity in June, 2020, when we saw everything that happened with the murder of George Floyd,
00:30:49.980 all the repercussions, all the demonstrations. That was a form of hysteria brought about by
00:30:55.180 physically locking people in their own homes and then mainlining social media into their
00:31:00.300 ribals 24-7. That was a result of that. I don't think we're going to get to that peak again.
00:31:07.560 I don't think we're going to see that level of hysteria. But I think it's going to carry on.
00:31:12.780 I think it's going to carry on because...
00:31:15.700 But do you not think it's just got too ridiculous now?
00:31:19.540 Like, they're literally calling, they're calling black people white supremacists now.
00:31:24.820 You don't think that at some point that they're just, they're just going to become so discredited
00:31:29.240 that no one listens to them anymore. Because I see this, I see people talking about this now
00:31:34.900 popping up on CNN, that idiot Brian Stelter now is actually having reasonable conversations about
00:31:40.320 this. Bill Maher, who I've always respected anyway, but he's now saying, look, if CRT is about telling
00:31:46.960 black people they're not going to make it and white people that they're evil, I'm out. People are
00:31:51.280 becoming more emboldened and speaking out against it as the craziness becomes more aggressive.
00:31:56.140 Okay. Or am I just being too hopeful and optimistic?
00:32:00.920 Maybe you are being too hopeful and too optimistic. But then you look at things like the Labour
00:32:05.520 Party and you saw that clip where he was saying, you know, there's too many white men speaking.
00:32:11.700 Yeah.
00:32:12.460 I think this is already endemic in the culture. The seeds have already been sown.
00:32:16.520 Right. But isn't that, but do you not think that because it's that ridiculous, people are going
00:32:22.200 to turn off it? Because look, we talked about this off camera and I actually think this is
00:32:27.680 a good point to bring up the Labour Party. You know, the only way the Labour Party becomes
00:32:33.820 relevant again is if they start addressing real issues. Right. Real issues being the housing
00:32:39.420 crisis.
00:32:39.980 Yeah.
00:32:40.580 Inequality. Right. These are the things that people in this country actually care about.
00:32:44.900 But they don't want to be relevant. They want to be right. We always say this. We all have
00:32:50.680 this discussion. They don't care. They don't care about being relevant.
00:32:53.980 Well, as was the case in the mid-90s. And then Blair comes along and Brown comes along
00:32:59.540 and Mandelson comes along and they transform the party. They take it towards the centre and
00:33:04.440 they say, look, let's stop obsessing about how we divide the pie and how evil the Tories
00:33:09.200 are and actually talk about growing the pie.
00:33:12.020 Yeah, but there wasn't social media then. Social media has played a huge factor. These people
00:33:18.000 have got enormous sway and power. There are people on the momentum left who have got hundreds
00:33:23.400 of thousands of followers on Twitter who can create a Twitter storm.
00:33:28.360 But you don't think loss after loss after loss after loss in elections is going to get them
00:33:35.200 to change their mind?
00:33:35.860 No. Look at the people we knew in the comedy industry.
00:33:38.380 Yeah, but they're idiots. That's why they're in the comedy industry.
00:33:41.080 Yeah, but they were all in the Labour Party. And they're all in that particular side of
00:33:45.720 the Labour Party.
00:33:45.960 But the Labour Party does have a lot of sensible people. The Paul Embrys of the world, right?
00:33:49.800 A lot of people have left the Labour Party who are sensible constantly.
00:33:53.600 A friend of ours, you know, who is Tom Buick, who I do, who I know very well. He was a former,
00:34:01.480 he was a former advisor, educational advisor to the Gordon Brown government. He resigned from
00:34:09.480 from Labour because of Brexit. There's a lot of very sensible, very sane people who have left
00:34:17.160 the Labour Party. You go, okay, look, Paul Embry, name me three other people who you think are
00:34:22.320 sensible in Labour.
00:34:25.760 Yeah, I suspect there are more people who are sensible in Labour. The problem is they're not
00:34:30.600 prominent.
00:34:31.400 Yeah.
00:34:31.580 That's why I don't know their names.
00:34:32.880 Yes. And we say, all right, the Labour Party are going to be sensible. Well, let's go back
00:34:39.780 to cervix gate. Should women be allowed to, should, should you be able to say that women
00:34:45.860 have a cervix?
00:34:49.320 Keir Starmer behaved like he'd just seen a cervix in front of him. He just, right in front
00:34:55.500 of him in glorious tanny colour. He didn't know what to say. David Lammy said something
00:34:59.880 ridiculous, like maybe you can grow your own. What? Something along those lines. We might
00:35:05.940 be able to...
00:35:06.460 We're going to need to fact check that. I'm not sure that's what he said exactly.
00:35:09.160 Yeah, but maybe something along those lines. I can't remember. I just remember it was
00:35:12.880 equally demented.
00:35:14.180 Yeah.
00:35:14.520 And look...
00:35:15.120 But to be fair, so did Boris.
00:35:16.640 Yeah. Right. No, Boris didn't. Boris dealt with it. He didn't... You forget. We have a go
00:35:24.960 at Boris all the time. We don't actually acknowledge how skilful Boris can be. And Boris dealt with
00:35:31.340 that beautifully. He just went, look, I believe it's important that we treat everyone with
00:35:35.860 kindness and respect. Do you remember that?
00:35:37.700 Yeah.
00:35:38.920 You know, and you know, there is biological sex, but there's also gender. And every time,
00:35:43.620 kindness and respect.
00:35:45.160 What a cunt.
00:35:46.160 Right. But he dealt with it brilliantly.
00:35:48.540 Yeah, well, for a politician.
00:35:50.140 Yeah, for a politician.
00:35:51.120 He didn't answer the question.
00:35:51.960 Right, he didn't answer the question.
00:35:52.980 And made everyone feel like he agreed with them.
00:35:55.040 Yes, exactly. Right. But Labour can't... The head of the Labour Party can't even say
00:36:04.020 that women have a cervix. So how are you going to appeal to women, mate? David Lammy...
00:36:09.660 It's a question I've been trying to work out for a long time, unsuccessfully.
00:36:13.280 David Lammy... Again, there's people who have very strong opinions of David Lammy. He's a
00:36:18.360 very intelligent man. He's Harvard educated. He's lost his mind on this as well. So that
00:36:26.040 being the case, when are they going to win?
00:36:28.460 Well, that's my point. They're not going to win for a very long time. And I imagine the
00:36:32.080 process of losing over and over and over produces a desire to change things. That's what happened
00:36:39.160 to Labour in the early 90s. The party had been banging on about the same outdated shit that
00:36:46.840 the public didn't care about. They lost economic credibility. They weren't respected. And they
00:36:53.060 hadn't been elected for ages. And eventually, someone comes along who believes in the key
00:36:58.780 stuff. And look, we should talk about inequality and the economic situation.
00:37:03.860 Before we go there, and we will talk about that, I'm with Brett Weinstein on this. I think
00:37:09.780 the Labour Party's done.
00:37:11.540 Did he say that?
00:37:12.420 No, but he said our institutions. And I think the Labour Party is an institution that is no
00:37:18.060 longer fit for purpose, that is completely discredited.
00:37:22.780 Welcome into the one party state!
00:37:25.080 And as a result, it's finished.
00:37:35.240 Interesting. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I think they, with the right
00:37:40.660 people in charge, they can, they'll, well, where was Tony Blair in, in 1987? He was a
00:37:48.460 lawyer. No one had heard of him, right? But he came in and look, it sounds like I'm praising
00:37:52.860 Tony Blair, this bloody shot. I'm not a fan in terms of his Iraq policy, his immigration
00:37:57.580 policy and whatever. But you can't deny, transformed the Labour Party was one of the most successful
00:38:03.000 in terms of electorally British prime ministers in modern history, right? So people like that
00:38:08.680 come along every now and again, and they change, they can change direction, the direction of
00:38:13.960 the party. But, but the way that you do that, though, Francis, is you start talking to
00:38:19.540 the majority. And what do the majority of people in this country care about? They care about
00:38:25.060 economic inequality, and increasingly, and we talked about this as well, housing, right?
00:38:30.060 Particularly people of our generation. And our generation, I remind you, is getting older,
00:38:33.800 right? We are now middle-aged.
00:38:36.520 No, we're not. We're not.
00:38:40.900 Explain.
00:38:41.300 Explain.
00:38:42.100 Fine. Well, I may be 39, but I identify as 29.
00:38:50.520 Okay. So you're old. I'm getting there as well. So my point is, if people of our generation,
00:38:58.040 which they are, are unable to buy property, right? That's going to be a huge issue politically
00:39:03.440 and electorally. And the party that addresses that, I think, will, will have the support of
00:39:10.760 the people who were there at that time for generations. For generations. That would be,
00:39:18.000 whoever can sort that issue out is going to have incredible widespread support, particularly if
00:39:26.120 they're a Tory. Particularly if they're a Tory. Because what that will then happen is they will have,
00:39:32.440 they will retain the support of the Shire Tories, even though those people don't necessarily want
00:39:36.680 the housing problem to be fixed. And in many ways, it's not in their interest to have the housing
00:39:40.340 problem fixed. But they'll still vote Tory. And then you get ordinary people, working class people
00:39:47.480 on board with that, because they're the ones that are suffering the most. It's not the kids of the
00:39:51.120 lawyer and the banker who are not able to get on the housing market, right?
00:39:55.520 Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:56.440 It's ordinary people.
00:39:58.040 But look, we've spoken about this in many a car drive. It does, it's not in there,
00:40:02.420 interest to sort this.
00:40:04.500 I think it's coming to the point. You made this point, Charlotte Gill.
00:40:08.660 Charlotte Gill, who's the deputy editor of Conservative Woman. Tom Harwood, who is clearly
00:40:14.680 a right-leaning journalist on GB News. All I see when I look on Twitter is those two complaining
00:40:20.500 about not being able to get on the housing ladder and renting forever. Right? Now, if people
00:40:25.180 like that are struggling to get on the housing ladder, what does that mean for someone who's got
00:40:32.580 a quote-unquote normal job? Someone who works in a supermarket? Someone who drives a van and is an
00:40:42.940 electrician or whatever? These are very necessary, important jobs. Yeah.
00:40:46.980 And they are much more representative of the country than Tom Harwood or Charlotte Gill. Right?
00:40:52.540 But I think we forget, man. This is one of the things that has happened in the last
00:40:58.620 50, 60, 70 years. You used to be able to feed a family of four on one person's income. And when I
00:41:07.280 mean feed, I mean have a house. Right? In America, this was very much the case. Think about the movies
00:41:14.000 from the 50s. Yeah. Mum was at home. Yeah. How it should be. You know what I mean. Yeah. Right? One
00:41:21.780 income feeds a family of four. And that person wasn't a CEO of a bank. No. That person worked in a
00:41:28.940 factory. Yeah. They worked in an office. They weren't necessarily, you know, creating a multi-million
00:41:34.660 dollar business. They were just a normal person who went to work, did their duty, buy their family,
00:41:39.580 buy their country, whatever. And they were fine. Is that possible now? No. Can you feed a family of
00:41:45.520 four on one income? No. In a normal job? So for all the progress we keep talking about, how we've made
00:41:52.240 progress on this and progress on that, and we no longer mean to gaze or whatever, which is great.
00:41:56.820 But the reality is, economically, society's regressed. Now, you can buy better things and quality of life
00:42:04.380 has improved. But people have now found themselves in a wage trap, right, where housing prices keep
00:42:12.040 going up massively, wages are not, and more and more members of your family have to work to keep you
00:42:17.740 fed. Right? That is a problem. Yeah. That is a problem. It's a problem societally because what
00:42:25.140 happens is, you know, Peter Hitchens talked about it on a live show, no one's supposed to talk about this
00:42:29.400 because we're all supposed to pretend that the emancipation of women has been consequence-free,
00:42:34.640 right? And it's been a great thing that people can do what they want with their life. No one wants
00:42:38.740 women back in the kitchen or any of that. But at the same time, if you're telling me that all women
00:42:44.800 want to be a wage slave in an office rather than raising their own children at home, well, you're lying.
00:42:50.000 Yeah. And what happens when children aren't being raised by their parents, they're being shipped off
00:42:56.060 to school at the age of three, which is what's happening now. I know people who've got kids who
00:43:00.920 are two and three years old. Very few of them are being cared by their own parents. No, they get sent
00:43:04.960 to nursery at school. Schools now have nurseries, primary schools. Right. Do you honestly, does anyone,
00:43:10.300 is anyone honestly trying to tell me that a generation of children who've basically barely seen their
00:43:15.540 parents and are in some kind of mass indoctrination system by the age of three, are you telling me that
00:43:21.640 that is better for society? No. So we've regressed massively as a result of the economic situation
00:43:31.060 in which more and more people, they're not given the option. See, the emancipation thing was about
00:43:36.800 options. It was about giving people freedom. But what we've ended up instead is people not having the
00:43:41.640 freedom, people being forced into a particular pipeline by the economic circumstances where you work
00:43:46.920 or die. Both parents have to work or your quality of life is going to be that much worse that it's
00:43:53.620 just, it's not a decision most people can afford to make. I mean, look, this is actually one of the
00:43:59.680 benefits of COVID in that the reality is now for a lot of jobs, you don't and shouldn't have to be
00:44:08.620 in the office five days a week. Most people, you could argue, one day a week. They're going to the
00:44:15.020 office, they do what they need to do or maybe two, which means they don't have to live in cities,
00:44:19.580 which means they can live outside of London, which means that the property is more affordable,
00:44:25.640 which means they will have a better quality of life because they'll be around their kids for
00:44:29.320 longer. Yeah. But the reality is as well, this is a problem and this is again why I have a problem
00:44:35.500 with the left pointing the finger at the right because Blair didn't solve this problem. It started
00:44:41.160 with Thatcher. Then it was handed on to Major. He didn't solve it. Then it went to Blair. He didn't
00:44:48.280 do anything about it, even though he's on the left and you'd think he'd be building council houses
00:44:52.100 because that's a classic. Or just houses. Or houses, but particularly council houses because
00:44:56.580 we never replenished the stock once Thatcher built them. Then we move. Thatcher sold them off. Yeah,
00:45:01.800 sorry, once Thatcher sold them off. Thank you. And then now 11 years of a Tory government who've done
00:45:07.000 nothing about it whatsoever. So this has been a problem for since I was born
00:45:14.240 and you are now approaching crisis point. We're not even approaching. We're now at crisis point.
00:45:22.900 And what do we do? And what do we do about it? Because the reality is that is having an impact
00:45:28.360 right the way through our culture. Like we always say about millennials, oh, blah, blah, blah. You know,
00:45:34.780 they don't grow up. They don't, you know, they're always moaning. They're always behaving like
00:45:39.120 children. They're in their thirties. Well, of course they're behaving like children. They live
00:45:43.060 like teenagers. They live like 22 year olds in a flat share, five to a flat share. Of course you're
00:45:49.440 going to behave like a teenager because what incentive have you got to settle down? What incentives have
00:45:54.360 you got to have kids if you can't buy a place? How can you be conservative if you've got nothing to
00:45:58.820 conserve? It's ridiculous. So I have a great deal of sympathy for our generation and people
00:46:07.480 looking down and saying, oh, you know, you're feckless and you're behaving in a manner that is
00:46:11.680 immature. But there's no point in being mature because you can't live a mature life. So what's
00:46:17.700 the point?
00:46:18.320 I mean, my only challenge to that would be that it is possible to get through that,
00:46:22.140 but it's just that much harder. It's that much harder.
00:46:25.000 For a lot of people, it's impossible to buy a place. It's that much harder, I would argue.
00:46:29.620 But yeah, yeah. I always think whatever the circumstances, you've got to strive to overcome
00:46:34.400 them. But I agree with you. It's that much harder for people.
00:46:37.260 You know, and the people, practically everyone that I know, and again, this is anecdotal information,
00:46:42.940 who has bought a place, has done it because of inherited money.
00:46:46.760 Well, you know me.
00:46:47.820 Yeah, one. But everybody else.
00:46:51.920 No, you're just hanging around with loser comedians. Of course that's the case.
00:46:55.000 No, the people, all that I know, the people who have bought places, is because their parents
00:47:00.040 or their grandparents are getting money. And look, they've got good jobs and that means
00:47:03.300 that they can afford it. But granny died. They got 70 grand. That means they put a deposit
00:47:09.100 down on a flat. And I'm not, I am bitter. I'm going to retract that. But society can't function
00:47:17.520 like that. Because then you have got people from the lowest economic strata who want to improve,
00:47:24.140 who want to move their life forward. And they're seeing this entire section of society
00:47:29.240 just closed off to them.
00:47:30.680 It's true. Look, we've talked about it a lot, and I'm sure we'll keep talking about it. I think we
00:47:35.420 should cover one more topic before we go to our locals' questions, which is comedy. What do you
00:47:40.160 think is the future of comedy? Because I've taken a step back from it for the moment. I'm working on
00:47:44.660 my book, which will be out middle of next year. That's been my project that I've been doing in
00:47:51.680 addition to trigonometry, which takes up an extraordinary amount of our time, even though we keep
00:47:56.680 growing the team. And every time we can afford to, we hire a new person to help us do a bit more of
00:48:01.860 the show. Whereas you've, you've, you've been focusing on, on getting ready for your tour and
00:48:08.040 getting your show ready. So I imagine you have some thoughts on, on comedy and where it might be going.
00:48:14.900 Right. As far comedy, it's the best of times and the worst of times. It's the best of times because
00:48:22.540 look around, look what we've done, look what we've created. We were two comedians with no backing,
00:48:28.160 no finances, nothing. Yeah. But we had to give up everything. Right. We had to risk everything to
00:48:33.200 do this. Yeah. And for every one of us, there'll be 20 people who failed. Yeah. Who didn't make it,
00:48:39.120 who are not successful. You know, and by the way, when we say successful, I still think of us as a
00:48:44.000 tiny YouTube channel. We are a tiny YouTube channel. Compared to where we're going. Yeah. Right.
00:48:47.900 But for every one of us, there's 20 or maybe 200 or maybe 2000 people who had an idea who gave it a
00:48:54.700 bit of a shot and never quite made it. Yeah. But that's comedy. How many people start on the
00:48:58.220 open mic? True. Who have a, have a dream, whatever else. And yeah, we're just better. Anyway, carry on.
00:49:05.200 And it didn't succeed. So if you have a dream, if you have a dream, if you've got talent,
00:49:10.520 if you've got drive, if you have got discipline. Good looks. Yeah, exactly. Great tashes. Then
00:49:16.980 there's a chance you can do something. There's a chance that you can grow a following. There's a
00:49:21.780 chance that actually you'll be able to carve out a niche for yourself. So there is that. The problem
00:49:28.920 is in the mainstream, the problem is when it comes to political comedy, for example, where I was
00:49:38.340 talking with this guy in comedy, this producer or commissioner a couple of days ago. TV commissioner.
00:49:44.620 TV commissioner. That's the one. And we were talking about Stuart Lee. And I said, look,
00:49:48.980 I think Stuart Lee's great. He's overrated, but that's another conversation for another time.
00:49:53.740 I don't agree with you, actually. He wouldn't have made it in America, mate. Sorry.
00:49:57.300 Yeah, but that's because British people are just... No, that's because American comedians
00:50:00.560 are better. It's a higher standard fact. No, no. See, I don't know. This is not true,
00:50:05.220 Francis. Yeah, it is. You don't like Stuart Lee because he's a snob.
00:50:07.640 No. And I like Stuart Lee because he's a snob. That's the difference. Stuart Lee is... He pioneered
00:50:14.120 a different style of comedy. That is something very special. You just can't compare him to Bill
00:50:21.220 Boat. It's a different way of doing comedy. It's just a different thing for a different audience
00:50:26.000 and done in a very different way. He is a genius at comedy. You just happen to be triggered by it,
00:50:33.660 which is fine. You're entitled to that view because he is a snob. He's an intellectual snob
00:50:38.820 and there's an audience of people there for that. That's all.
00:50:42.960 No, I... Anyway, I disagree. He's overrated. But anyways,
00:50:47.280 thank you, right? Okay, so you've got Stuart Lee and I was talking to him and I was saying,
00:50:52.080 look, comedy's biased. He went, give me an example. I went, okay, Stuart Lee,
00:50:55.140 you've got a Stuart Lee of the left. Why is there not a Stuart Lee of the right? And he went,
00:50:59.240 well, why should we have a Stuart Lee of the right? And I went, well,
00:51:02.360 it's called balance, isn't it? And he went, all right, but what would Stuart Lee of the right
00:51:06.600 talk about? And I said, well, they'd criticise Greta Thunberg, number one, because Greta Thunberg,
00:51:11.980 why has she been given the platform that she has? She's not a climate scientist. She doesn't have
00:51:15.780 all the arguments I spoke about before. He went, well, that's got nothing to do with politics.
00:51:20.020 That's social. And I went, well, it's got to do with politics because what she wants to implement
00:51:26.140 in this country and around the world is going to affect us and it's going to affect our politics.
00:51:32.120 He went, oh, what else? I went, well, BLM. Why is it that everybody went nuts over an organisation
00:51:38.440 that has the words in it, abolish capitalism, defund the police? Why did no one investigate
00:51:44.440 or challenge these ideas? And he went, well, look, you've got, I think, you know, I agree
00:51:49.680 with the fact that black lives matter. I'm like, mate, I'm not disagreeing with the fact
00:51:56.040 that black lives matter. You know? I agree with that. I think 99.9% of people do, right?
00:52:06.000 And if you don't, you're a desperately unpleasant human being, right? Nobody, very few people
00:52:13.280 disagree. Yeah, but it's a deliberate conflation. Yeah, it's a deliberate conflation anyway. And
00:52:18.020 then he got very awkward, shook my hand and walked off. Yeah. And these are the people
00:52:20.940 who run comedy. These are the people who run comedy. These are the tastemakers. These
00:52:24.320 are the people. So what you have is you have sacred cows in comedy that you were never going
00:52:30.780 to be able to touch. You are never going to be able to go for. You're never going to be
00:52:35.000 able to take the piss out of. But, but, here's where I push back. Comedy Unleashed
00:52:41.220 are talking to TV. They did a pilot. So at least TV are interested in exploring that. People
00:52:49.000 are talking to us about doing a satirical show on TV, right? Now, whether that's going
00:52:53.220 to happen or not, we don't know. But to me, the fact that those conversations, they were
00:52:57.300 not being had three years ago. Yeah. Right? They're being had now. Maybe a few years from
00:53:02.000 now. See, this is the problem. It's your optimism. It lets you down time and time again. It does.
00:53:09.220 Mate, for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. Right? The pendulum
00:53:13.880 swings. Don't you think?
00:53:17.540 No. I don't know. What do you mean, no?
00:53:19.360 No. No. I've been right about everything.
00:53:23.500 No, you haven't. Yes, I have. And you were going to me, there's going to be a lot of
00:53:26.540 lockdown. I go, no, they're not. It's going to be, they're going to do vaccine passports.
00:53:30.400 That's going to happen. Listen to Fostradamus. Listen.
00:53:34.660 Mate, well, that's actually more Nostradamus. Yeah. But, no, I don't think so. I don't think
00:53:42.140 so because you are going to have to change the people for that to happen.
00:53:49.300 Yeah. But all it takes, though, Francis, look, if you and I, and it's going to sound,
00:53:55.180 you know, big headed and whatever. But, but genuinely, if you and I, remember the work
00:54:00.900 that was that we did and we'll be doing more of it. If we did that with, with a TV budget
00:54:06.460 and a TV project behind us, that would be the most popular comedy show in this country.
00:54:11.820 You really think they're going to let us go on TV and take the piss out of BLM? Is that
00:54:16.660 really what you're saying? Maybe for one show. You really think they're going to let two
00:54:25.040 middle aged in your words, straight white males come on and, and take the piss out of BLM?
00:54:30.760 Look, mate, you can take a bumming and I'll, you know, I'll brown out, brown up a bit more
00:54:36.580 and then we can be diverse. Yeah.
00:54:40.680 I, I, look, God bless you and your optimism and your immigrant optimism and we can change
00:54:47.140 things and, nah, it's not going to happen. And when I went to, and I talked to these people,
00:54:53.560 it just isn't, it's like the BBC. I love the BBC. I do. I do. And, and I take no joy in seeing it
00:55:02.640 being criticised. I take no joy in seeing what it's becoming. I take no joy in any of it.
00:55:09.020 But it can't change because the people in there are all the same type of people with the same,
00:55:15.380 and they're not bad people. They're not bad people.
00:55:18.160 But they should be killed.
00:55:18.920 But they should be killed. No, they're not bad people. But they just think and view the world
00:55:24.320 in a particular way.
00:55:25.380 Well, fuck it then. We'll do it ourselves.
00:55:26.900 But this is a point. And this is why this exists. And this is why we've achieved this.
00:55:30.360 We'll just do it ourselves. Once we have enough resources to allocate enough time to doing the
00:55:34.400 satirical stuff, we'll start doing that.
00:55:36.320 Yeah.
00:55:36.540 If they don't want to do it on TV, fuck them. We'll make it ourselves. And we'll make it bigger.
00:55:41.260 And then they're going to come cap in hand asking us to come on their show and we'll tell them to go
00:55:44.720 fuck themselves.
00:55:45.320 And you look at what has happened to all the satirical shows. Look at Charlie Brooker.
00:55:52.680 Well, it got shit and then it ended.
00:55:54.820 Yeah.
00:55:55.080 As far as I know. It used to be incredible.
00:55:57.040 Yeah.
00:55:57.780 If we made the show, that's what it would be like.
00:56:00.020 Yeah, of course.
00:56:00.780 But better.
00:56:01.160 Yeah. But we're both huge fans of Charlie Brooker.
00:56:06.200 His early work.
00:56:07.240 Yeah, his early work. Brilliant. What it became now.
00:56:11.100 Yeah. It's unwatchable.
00:56:12.340 So there we go. There we go. I don't think it's going to change because the people in it
00:56:19.540 view certain issues in a particular way. And I'll tell you why. It's because we've conflated
00:56:26.320 politics with morality. It's not about arguments anymore. It's not about debate. It's about morality.
00:56:33.300 See, I don't think it's that, although that is a factor. It's a more complicated thing because
00:56:37.140 politics is always partly about morality, in my opinion. I think we've conflated comedy with
00:56:41.700 politics. That's the real reason comedy is struggling. We've conflated comedy with politics.
00:56:46.920 Everything now is political. You can't just make fun of politicians without people assuming
00:56:51.700 that you are on the side of the other people.
00:56:54.300 Yeah.
00:56:54.460 When did that happen?
00:56:55.440 But what does that mean, though, the side of the other people? Let's dig into that.
00:56:59.220 It means that you are an activist as opposed to a comedian.
00:57:02.780 But let's go deeper. What does that mean? If you're an activist for the other side?
00:57:05.660 No, I know where you're trying to take this, but I don't agree. I think the argument about
00:57:11.580 conflating politics with morality is inaccurate because politics is always about morality.
00:57:17.280 Politics is always about what you think is the right thing to do. Do you look after these people
00:57:21.360 or those people? Do you maximize freedom or do you maximize safety? Do you give people the freedom
00:57:27.960 to succeed or fail on their merit? Or do you take from the successful in order to look after the
00:57:33.420 unsuccessful? That's politics. And where you place that marker in your own mind is about morality.
00:57:40.460 So I don't think, you know, I know what you mean, but I don't think morality and politics have ever
00:57:46.920 been disconnected.
00:57:48.340 But, OK, I take your point and I agree with it, but it has mushroomed to such an extent now.
00:57:55.820 It has mushroomed to such an extent. Whereas before, you could see people of, you know,
00:58:03.240 left and right sitting down having a discussion.
00:58:06.480 I think it's just because we think in black and white now. We don't see the shades of gray anymore.
00:58:12.220 Agreed.
00:58:12.660 It's either right or wrong.
00:58:14.140 It's either good or it's evil.
00:58:15.380 Right, exactly. It's like what we were talking about with the climate change thing.
00:58:18.740 Yeah.
00:58:18.900 To say what we said, which is, I don't know, is unacceptable now.
00:58:23.780 Yeah.
00:58:25.100 I don't know. If you went on TV and said, look, I'm a comedian. I don't know about climate change.
00:58:31.900 I hear some people who I respect saying that it's happening. I hear some people who I respect saying,
00:58:37.420 not that it's happening. It's happening because of human activity and other people saying it's
00:58:41.180 happening not because of human activity. So I don't know. I don't know what to think.
00:58:44.960 Like, I recycle my, I wash out my tuna tins and whatever and recycle, you know, and I try not to,
00:58:52.900 you know, keep my car running when I'm not using it. That's what I do, right? If you said that,
00:58:57.200 they'd be like, yeah, but what about, they would make it about you having to have an opinion.
00:59:01.560 Yeah.
00:59:01.820 And that's because everything is black and white now.
00:59:04.220 Mm-hmm.
00:59:05.160 Everything. You can't, you can't be unsure of anything. You have to,
00:59:09.320 you have to commit to a particular ideological position.
00:59:12.240 And I think that's where a lot of this stuff's come from, where it's like you're either fully
00:59:17.020 on the right or you're fully on the left. Yeah.
00:59:19.840 Which is ironic because the people mostly who are pushing this way of thinking are people who
00:59:23.860 believe that you can be non-binary. Yeah.
00:59:25.760 You can be non-binary in every way except politically. Yeah.
00:59:31.300 How does, that doesn't make any sense.
00:59:33.060 No, it doesn't.
00:59:34.340 You know, people want you and I to be on the right or on the left. And you increasingly,
00:59:39.280 this is the thing that worries me is people on the right are now buying into this thing as well.
00:59:43.480 Because, you know, the reason that in many ways, I think we get on better with people on the right,
00:59:48.660 even though you and I are not on the right, is that they have at least preserved for the most part
00:59:53.220 that tolerance. Mm-hmm.
00:59:55.160 They are tolerant of people with different opinions, even if they don't agree with them
00:59:58.400 for the most part. But you're now seeing that, particularly with COVID, but I think more
01:00:03.260 generally, this sort of like, you know, this idiot that wrote an article after our David
01:00:07.400 Starkey interview saying how, oh, you know, David Starkey's not one of us because he thinks
01:00:11.940 mandatory vaccinations should be done. Well, you and I couldn't be more vehemently opposed
01:00:16.180 to mandatory vaccinations. Didn't stop us from having a really good conversation with David.
01:00:20.880 We pushed back on him. He said he wanted to agree to disagree. And that's what happened.
01:00:24.520 But a lot of people now are developing this black and white thinking on the right too.
01:00:29.380 And that's a problem. Yeah, it's a huge problem. But then filter it back into comedy.
01:00:36.880 You need people who are balanced. Yeah. Well, in order to produce the content, which makes me,
01:00:42.940 which makes me think that it's never going to happen. And look, we're going to have conversations.
01:00:48.060 And look, they've done a pilot done. But until I see it in front of my eyes,
01:00:52.420 until I see it done, I won't believe it.
01:00:59.620 But it's a no-brainer, Francis. There's got to be a person with balls. And there can be a woman,
01:01:04.320 you know, because it's 2021. There's got to be a person with balls somewhere in a TV studio
01:01:08.780 watching this conversation right now. Because the people in that world watch our show.
01:01:12.540 Yeah. Right.
01:01:13.440 And they've got to know that what I'm saying is true, because it is.
01:01:16.440 If people like us and other people, Andrew Doyle, that we would get involved and Jeff and others
01:01:21.980 made a comedy show that punched in every direction, it would be the most successful comedy show
01:01:26.880 in this country today. It would be.
01:01:29.180 Of course it would.
01:01:29.880 It would be. Because you're getting people, you know, the Leos, the Jeffs, the me, the you,
01:01:34.300 the Andrews, who we've had to prove our ability to do things in spite of the whole system being
01:01:41.720 against us.
01:01:42.400 Yeah.
01:01:42.800 Right? So we know what we're doing. And we've, you know, we've got, the pudding is there.
01:01:48.260 The proof of the pudding is there. So they, it's a, it's a, it's a slam dunk. It's a guaranteed win.
01:01:55.600 If you've just got the balls to do it.
01:01:58.580 What about the leader of the Labour Party? What happens if the Labour, leader of the Labour Party
01:02:02.300 came out and went, I respect trans people, but biological sex is real. And let's stop behaving like
01:02:09.500 that's what Starmer should have done. Yeah. He should have done that. I said this. I said this
01:02:14.160 the day he became leader. He needs to come out and pick a fight. I agree with you. And then you
01:02:19.000 can transform the party. I am not disagreeing with you. My point is he hasn't done it.
01:02:23.580 Yes. Cause he's a coward. Right. He hasn't done it. And they're not going to do it.
01:02:31.560 It doesn't matter. That's the path to success. The fact that you're right doesn't make it any more
01:02:35.960 likely to happen. I don't agree with that though. I think the fact that I'm right means
01:02:40.920 that there will eventually come somebody who understands that and it doesn't care about the
01:02:44.520 consequences. The short-term consequences. Someone who's prepared to take a risk and, and just,
01:02:51.960 just, just take the flack for, for, for a few weeks and then everyone's going to shut the fuck
01:02:57.060 up about it. See, this is the thing with cancel culture, man. They only come after people who are
01:03:03.040 vulnerable. Canceled people are just playground bullies. They only go after people who are
01:03:10.560 vulnerable. That's why they've never tried to cancel us. They have. Some comedians tried to
01:03:16.980 get our agent to drop us. They didn't even do it properly. They talked about it. It never happened.
01:03:21.660 Right. Cause they know it's not going to happen. They know it's not going to happen. They can't
01:03:26.240 cancel our YouTube channel. They can't cancel the show. They can't cancel my Twitter. They can't
01:03:29.840 cancel your, they can't. So they don't go after us anymore. They do go after us. Our, our Instagram
01:03:34.780 has been absolutely strangled because of complaints people have made. And as a result of that, we've
01:03:40.580 got a 90 day ban on our Instagram. We have now got warnings, our Instagram, where people try and
01:03:46.280 follow us saying, do you really want to follow this, this account? And we've taken views that used
01:03:52.120 to be 5,000 on clips now get 150. So there's actually no more point for us to be on Instagram
01:03:58.640 really. Which is what I said from the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. So just because it's not overt doesn't
01:04:04.340 mean that it's not happening. What I mean is if a TV company made a genuinely balanced satirical show
01:04:11.080 like the one that you and I would make, cause we spend more time attacking the Tories on Raw than we,
01:04:15.860 than we do anyone else. Fucking hate Johnson. Yeah. So if they just said, you know,
01:04:21.340 if they just came out and went, I hear that some people on Twitter are upset. We have this channel
01:04:26.980 believe in creating different types of content. We fully back this project and we don't care.
01:04:33.500 There's got to be one person out there like that. Just the person who's made enough money.
01:04:37.820 It doesn't care anymore. It's got to be one person like that. It's got to be.
01:04:44.160 Are you out there? Cause if you have, I haven't fucking met you.
01:04:48.140 Look, I love your optimism. Great. Good for you.
01:04:50.860 But look, I don't, I, I, it's not optimism. I'm just saying that's a possibility.
01:04:54.820 The reality is if that doesn't happen in a very cynical way, that's good for us.
01:05:02.220 Oh yeah. It's great.
01:05:02.860 We'll make our own shit. We'll make our own work that was,
01:05:05.140 and we'll put more resources into it and we'll keep making it and it's going to get huge.
01:05:09.260 And that's great. Yeah.
01:05:10.640 If that's, if that's how they want to play it, fine.
01:05:12.560 Yeah. Fine. We're going to, we're going to find a way one way or another.
01:05:15.740 The reality is as well, TV is dead. TV is dead. The viewing figures are through the floor.
01:05:22.180 I've heard on the grapevine, I don't know how true it is that this is the last series of live at the Apollo
01:05:26.620 because nobody.
01:05:28.180 Really?
01:05:28.860 That's what I've heard.
01:05:30.080 Wow.
01:05:30.640 Now that may not be true, but that's what I've heard on the grapevine.
01:05:33.080 Wouldn't surprise you, would it?
01:05:33.920 Yeah. The viewing figures are through the floor. Nobody watches it. The quality has gone down.
01:05:39.940 We all know that it has. Nobody's allowed to say it, but it's true. If you look back at the,
01:05:43.360 you know, halcyon days of McIntyre, of Mickey Flanagan, of all these people coming on and,
01:05:49.560 you know, and doing brilliant comedy and packing out arenas. As a result, Kevin Bridges doing Michael
01:05:56.520 McIntyre's road show, smashing it up. Simon Evans, former guest of ours, to where we are now.
01:06:02.360 People watch this and go, well, this isn't funny. That's where we are.
01:06:09.240 Well, on that happy note, Francis, we'll do some locals questions. But in the meantime, guys,
01:06:13.740 thank you so much for joining us for this conversation today. Head on over to locals to
01:06:18.120 see the answers to the questions you've been asking over there. And also remember, we're doing
01:06:22.360 Movember for Prostate Cancer UK. The link should be available somewhere in the video to support this
01:06:27.200 great cause. Thank you for watching and we'll see you very soon.
01:06:30.080 Take care and see you soon, guys.
01:06:32.360 We hope you've enjoyed this incredible interview. Remember to subscribe and hit the bell button
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