TRIGGERnometry - The Truth About TRIGGERnometry Part 3

00:00:00.560 I think the biggest like standout moment for me was definitely the America trip.

00:00:04.880 Because it wasn't really a moment, it was like two and a half weeks

00:00:08.000 in which we interviewed a crap ton of amazing guests.

00:00:11.040 I'll tell you what was a real highlight for me when I interviewed you

00:00:15.600 the day that Putin invaded Ukraine.

00:00:18.880 We did that in February, I've forgotten about that, yeah.

00:00:21.040 And by the way, we raised over £55,000 for charities that work in Ukraine.

00:00:28.800 People, enough smart people, or smarter than us people at least,

00:00:32.640 are asking questions like, well, what is the positive vision for people like us?

00:00:38.880 Why should anybody join our tribe, whatever that tribe is, right? 0.97

00:00:44.400 We've spent quite a lot of time opposing things, 1.00

00:00:47.440 saying, well, that's wrong and that's stupid and that's... 0.99

00:00:50.400 But what do we have to offer the world? 1.00

00:00:54.240 What does our way of thinking, what do the questions we ask

00:00:58.160 have to add to the conversation?

00:01:00.640 Yeah, because it's not enough to be against something.

00:01:03.360 Yeah.

00:01:04.000 You can't base an identity on being anti-something.

00:01:07.440 I think for the foreseeable future, I feel that it's our job to stay

00:01:10.640 and it's our job to fight.

00:01:21.680 Hello and welcome to a very special episode of Trigonometry.

00:01:26.480 I'm Francis Foster.

00:01:27.680 I'm Constantine Kissin.

00:01:29.280 And this is a show for you if you want interesting...

00:01:32.000 Oh, sorry.

00:01:33.120 We don't know what the show is about.

00:01:35.520 And this is the show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:01:40.800 We have neither for you today because it's just me and Francis talking about the year

00:01:45.120 that's just been and the year that's coming up.

00:01:47.040 So Francis, welcome to the show.

00:01:48.880 Welcome to the show to you too.

00:01:50.320 It's been a long and interesting year.

00:01:53.680 Yes.

00:01:55.280 Huge for us in some ways, also quite difficult in other ways.

00:01:58.480 Absolutely.

00:01:59.360 It has been a year of contrast.

00:02:01.440 It's been a year of ups and downs, of changes, of incredible experiences.

00:02:06.160 It's had it all really.

00:02:07.520 Well, I think the biggest standout moment for me was definitely the America trip.

00:02:12.880 Yeah.

00:02:13.120 Because it wasn't really a moment.

00:02:14.080 And it was like two and a half weeks in which we interviewed a crap ton of amazing guests.

00:02:19.200 I was on Tim Pool.

00:02:20.560 Then we were on Joe Rogan.

00:02:22.240 We interviewed Bill Burr.

00:02:23.440 We had that crazy Sam Harris episode that blew up all over the internet.

00:02:29.920 What was your most memorable moment of the year?

00:02:32.880 To be honest with you, it was the America trip.

00:02:34.960 It had this strange, almost ethereal-like quality to it.

00:02:40.960 Where, apart from a small blip at the beginning, do you remember with all the equipment where we

00:02:45.920 didn't have any equipment when we started?

00:02:47.600 Yeah.

00:02:48.400 And then we had to go.

00:02:49.200 Yeah, I do remember.

00:02:51.040 Apart from that, the rest of it went so well.

00:02:54.080 I found myself thinking, is this a dream?

00:02:57.520 Yeah.

00:02:58.000 Like, every day had that surreal, dream-like quality, where we went to the Daily Wire,

00:03:04.000 and then we were interviewing Sam Harris.

00:03:07.440 Not at the Daily Wire.

00:03:08.400 Not at the Daily Wire.

00:03:09.360 That would be a meeting of the minds, wouldn't it?

00:03:11.760 Yeah, I can imagine they wouldn't get on that well.

00:03:14.400 But it was an incredible experience, and it was so fun.

00:03:18.400 And it just showed us what was possible as well.

00:03:21.120 Yeah, it did.

00:03:22.480 And speaking of what was possible, we're obviously sitting in our new studio,

00:03:26.560 not entirely complete.

00:03:27.760 I mean, the neon lights that people will be used to seeing were broken by one of the

00:03:31.680 builders who was installing them.

00:03:32.880 So it doesn't sound like builders.

00:03:34.320 It doesn't sound like builders at all.

00:03:35.840 So we've got a few little bits to finish off.

00:03:37.920 And this room in the studio itself is looking good, but we've got more to do.

00:03:42.080 And the office and green room part of the studio is nowhere near finished.

00:03:46.800 So that will be a job for next year.

00:03:48.400 But we started the year in our last studio.

00:03:51.920 And by the end of the year, we were forced to leave that, which is the eternal journey

00:03:58.880 of trigonometry.

00:03:59.440 People haven't seen the truth about trigonometry, particularly part one.

00:04:03.120 We talk about being kicked out of studio after studio.

00:04:06.800 But here in this place, we have a more or less long-term home.

00:04:11.360 We've built this entire place from scratch.

00:04:13.440 It was just one big empty room, and we've made it the way we want.

00:04:16.720 And we've still got things to add.

00:04:18.000 So I'm excited about next year as well.

00:04:20.800 But what were some of the other highlights of last year for you?

00:04:23.520 Do you remember?

00:04:24.480 Yeah, so the-

00:04:25.360 I mean, some of the guests we've had on the show in the last year.

00:04:27.840 I mean, think about some of our most popular episodes.

00:04:30.960 Luis Perry.

00:04:31.840 Yeah.

00:04:32.560 Absolutely brilliant.

00:04:33.680 Peter Zayhan.

00:04:34.560 Peter Zayhan, fantastic.

00:04:36.080 William Costello was a superb episode.

00:04:38.240 Yeah, talking about incels.

00:04:39.600 Yeah, it was, yeah.

00:04:40.640 I know we released a whole batch just around-

00:04:46.240 Do you remember when we got ill with COVID?

00:04:48.160 Round about that January moment, which were very, very good.

00:04:52.000 Africa Brooke.

00:04:52.960 Yes.

00:04:53.360 I think that was probably the first episode of 2022.

00:04:55.920 Yeah, I think it may well have been, yeah.

00:04:57.280 Yeah, and what a way to start.

00:04:58.720 She was absolutely sensational.

00:05:00.880 Just a brilliant episode.

00:05:02.480 There were so many special moments in that last studio.

00:05:06.560 I'll tell you what was a real highlight for me.

00:05:09.040 When I interviewed you, the day that Putin invaded Ukraine.

00:05:14.160 Mm, we did that in February.

00:05:15.440 I've forgotten about that, yeah.

00:05:17.760 February 24th.

00:05:18.800 And that's been a big part.

00:05:20.400 And by the way, we raised over 55,000 pounds for charities that work in Ukraine in one evening.

00:05:29.680 In one Raw show, we raised 55,000 pounds.

00:05:33.040 Yeah.

00:05:33.440 And that, to me, well, first of all, I know that it will make a big difference to people on the ground there.

00:05:38.880 But also, I think it speaks to how amazing our fans are and what we've built here, too.

00:05:45.120 Yeah.

00:05:45.280 Because that showed, you know, the number of people who watch and listen and pay attention to what we do

00:05:52.400 and who wanted to support us doing that.

00:05:55.600 It was incredible.

00:05:56.560 It was a really special moment.

00:05:58.800 I mean, when we said that it was going to be a fundraising Raw, I mean, I thought we were going to make a decent amount of money.

00:06:05.520 I didn't expect, because I had to work up, I was working up material for my tour, so I had to go and do a gig.

00:06:12.880 And I was like, oh, but if I leave at 8.40, that's plenty of time, you know, Raw will be finished.

00:06:16.960 And it just kept going. The money kept going.

00:06:19.440 Well, I felt really bad, because prior to doing it, I messaged a couple of our higher-end supporters

00:06:27.200 who've given us bits of money here and there.

00:06:31.600 And I said to him, look, we're going to do this fundraiser. I'm guessing we'll probably raise about, I don't know, a couple of grand.

00:06:37.760 You know, you're a millionaire. Would you like to match it?

00:06:39.840 And this is how you know why millionaires are millionaires.

00:06:43.280 They all went, nah, but I'll give you a grand.

00:06:46.640 Because if they had matched it, they'd be in for about 50 grand each.

00:06:51.040 So, yeah, it was incredible and very surprising.

00:06:54.080 And I think sometimes you and I don't really realize how amazing the thing we've built is,

00:06:59.840 and how much people enjoy it, and our community on Locals, which has been brilliant as well.

00:07:06.160 And it's been a really interesting year from a personal perspective for both of us as well.

00:07:10.000 For me, my book came out this year.

00:07:13.760 And I had some fascinating insights into the way that the whole publishing industry works,

00:07:18.320 and books and everything, which we can talk about if you want.

00:07:20.960 And also, Nikolai, my son, was born.

00:07:23.360 Incredible.

00:07:24.560 He's seven months old now, which is just insane.

00:07:27.840 And that's been a complete transformation.

00:07:29.360 It's changed a lot of the way that I see politics and life as well.

00:07:32.960 You know, I can, now I truly understand.

00:07:37.840 Well, I certainly wouldn't say that I'm becoming conservative.

00:07:41.040 I understand why people become more small-c conservative with time.

00:07:45.440 And I don't think it's time.

00:07:46.400 I think it's life decisions and life events that really change that for you.

00:07:52.960 Like, when I see the world through a parent's eyes,

00:07:57.360 it completely changes how I perceive lots of things.

00:08:00.000 Like what, like for instance?

00:08:02.720 Well, I mean, the obvious one is drugs.

00:08:04.560 You know me, I've been as libertarian as anybody on the issue of drugs.

00:08:07.440 But when I think about, do I want him to be able to buy heroin at the pharmacy at the age of 16?

00:08:11.760 I think probably not, you know.

00:08:14.240 Kill joy. 0.99

00:08:15.200 Kill joy, exactly. 0.79

00:08:17.600 And I think it's also made me realize, particularly on the trans issue,

00:08:24.560 which we've talked to death, frankly, but it won't go away.

00:08:27.680 And so we've got to keep raising awareness of it.

00:08:29.600 When you see how small and vulnerable and undeveloped also their brains are when they're small,

00:08:39.120 you kind of go, they're not capable of making such decisions.

00:08:43.520 And of course, no one makes a decision to transition at seven months.

00:08:46.240 But you can see the progression from between where he is now and an adult.

00:08:50.800 And you just go, these are not, children are not capable of making decisions of this nature.

00:08:56.880 And they're likely to experience distress in teenage years and whatever.

00:09:02.160 And they're going to be looking for explanations of why they feel in a certain way.

00:09:05.920 You know, and we've interviewed, in the last few days, we've interviewed both Ollie London and Helen Joyce,

00:09:10.800 which were both very powerful interviews in their own way.

00:09:12.960 And that's one of the things that I realized, you know, a lot of young people are looking for answers

00:09:19.200 to the same existential questions that human beings have always been dealt with. 1.00

00:09:23.440 But now they've got this fucking thing in their hand 0.99

00:09:26.320 that just offers them this complete massive range of choices. 0.99

00:09:30.800 And where in the past you would have felt distress or discomfort or questions about your future.

00:09:36.400 Now you've just got this portal to hell in your hand.

00:09:39.440 And so it's made me more conservative, more, I don't know if it's the right,

00:09:44.720 it's conservative is the right word, but it's like my son isn't getting a smartphone for a very long time.

00:09:50.000 I don't think we understand actually what smartphones are.

00:09:54.320 I don't think we understand what they're doing to us.

00:09:56.800 I think, I think it was Jordan Peterson who said this.

00:09:59.440 We've all become part of an experiment and no one consented to.

00:10:03.680 And they are manipulating our minds.

00:10:06.480 They are changing the way we think.

00:10:08.240 They're changing our attention patterns in ways that we can't possibly understand.

00:10:14.560 So, correct decision.

00:10:16.160 And think about us.

00:10:17.200 I mean, you and I are both basically 40 now.

00:10:19.360 So we grew up.

00:10:20.400 We look younger.

00:10:21.520 Some of us.

00:10:23.600 On a good day, some of us look 38.

00:10:25.600 Yeah.

00:10:25.920 But you and I grew up in an era, when I was growing up, there was no internet.

00:10:33.360 No.

00:10:33.920 There were no computers for a long time in my childhood as well.

00:10:37.200 Um, and so you were not constantly plugged in to the, to this hive mind, but for young

00:10:45.040 people nowadays, who are growing up now, they've never experienced that world.

00:10:49.840 They've always been plugged into.

00:10:51.280 And the thing is, you recognize, particularly if you switch off from the internet for a couple

00:10:57.280 of days and you just go and do something out in the real world, the internet misrepresents

00:11:02.240 reality.

00:11:02.880 Yeah.

00:11:03.200 Yeah.

00:11:03.280 Particularly social media.

00:11:04.640 And yet, if that is all you know, if you've grown up with that from the beginning, it distorts

00:11:09.520 your view of reality, which I think is where a lot of this sort of culture war happens,

00:11:15.360 is because quite a lot of people have just become so disconnected from the real world.

00:11:20.160 Then these phrases like, well, there's no difference between men and women, they become

00:11:24.880 possible in a world in which you're not confronted with reality.

00:11:28.800 Yeah.

00:11:29.760 And, and, and, and that's such a great point.

00:11:32.000 And it's also, we get our ideas, not just of how other people are, what they're like

00:11:38.480 as people and how well they're doing or, or not how well they're not doing all of these

00:11:44.720 things from social media and it doesn't exist.

00:11:49.520 It's a misrepresentation.

00:11:51.280 You can think someone is doing incredibly well and I mean, on one level they might be, or it

00:11:57.040 might just be them showing edited highlights.

00:11:59.440 But in that moment, they might, they might be experiencing a tragedy.

00:12:03.520 And yet we look at them and we feel jealous that we are not them.

00:12:07.280 And the reality is, but we don't know.

00:12:10.080 We don't know.

00:12:10.800 And so we have, we now think that this alternate version of reality is reality.

00:12:17.120 And we've all bought it as well.

00:12:19.280 All of us.

00:12:20.080 I don't care who you are.

00:12:21.280 We all think that way now.

00:12:22.720 Yeah.

00:12:23.280 And that, you know, you touch on jealousy and that's one of the things that

00:12:26.000 has really shifted for me in the last few years, doing the show and Nikolai being born

00:12:32.960 as well.

00:12:33.280 It's like, I am so grateful for everything that we get to do.

00:12:38.080 Just the fact that we get to turn up and this is our job.

00:12:40.880 It's like what Bill Burr said to us.

00:12:42.320 Yeah.

00:12:42.640 You know, we were talking, he was like, this isn't a real job.

00:12:45.040 What are we doing here?

00:12:45.840 It's Tuesday afternoon.

00:12:46.720 We're sitting here with jackets on, you know.

00:12:48.320 Yeah.

00:12:48.960 And it's something I've been conscious of for a long time.

00:12:51.600 And I've just, I've really forced myself, not that it was ever a big thing for me anyway,

00:12:57.840 but you know, everyone feels jealousy every now and again.

00:13:00.640 The fact that, you know, people commented on the fact that when we were on America trip

00:13:04.240 and we put those vlogs out, which our brilliant intern Elliot edited so well,

00:13:09.920 and we were saying grace before meals, even though none of us is religious.

00:13:13.120 But that's why we do it because our practice of gratitude is so important.

00:13:16.960 Um, particularly when we're building something and we're doing well and we're having a lot

00:13:23.120 of success and we grow every year.

00:13:25.120 And that's really something that I think we don't appreciate is the constant growth,

00:13:29.840 how fulfilling that is for us, because you and I are both very competitive and driven people.

00:13:34.480 And I think I, I always get itchy feet, certainly throughout my life in, in other jobs that I've

00:13:42.080 done and other careers that I've had.

00:13:44.000 Once I start to feel like I've got it down and I know how this works and there's nothing new

00:13:48.560 and there's no problems to solve, I start to get bored.

00:13:51.440 Whereas with trigonometry, that really isn't the case.

00:13:54.080 So, and of course, you know, seeing a child be born and watching the first smile and like,

00:14:01.440 he's literally in the last two weeks gone from like constantly lying on his back on his front

00:14:06.080 to like crawling around everywhere. Like I was having a shower this morning

00:14:09.440 and suddenly the door opened and he crawled in, you know.

00:14:12.480 Yeah.

00:14:12.800 Um, just watching that whole process, it makes you so grateful for, for everything.

00:14:17.920 And so I, I've really been, I mean, it sounds wanky, but I've really been blessed

00:14:24.800 this year to, to, to, to notice and appreciate all the things that are going right.

00:14:29.680 Yeah. And, and I think it's important to do that because I think a lot of the time

00:14:36.960 we're so conditioned, especially in the West to, when things go right, you just go,

00:14:42.400 oh, that's the way it should be. That's what life is. Life should be like this.

00:14:47.280 And you're like, well, no, that's not how life works.

00:14:50.560 And by the way, we're about to find that out with the economic situation in the country

00:14:55.360 and the political situation, because it seems to me, I mean, actually Helen Joyce, who we

00:15:00.720 recorded an interview when I was bringing her, uh, when we were driving in the car,

00:15:05.200 uh, this is what she was saying. She said, when I worked at The Economist 12, 15 years ago,

00:15:10.160 it was all about, well, you know, we've got an extra 10 billion. How should the government spend it?

00:15:15.120 And that's over, man.

00:15:16.080 Yeah. I think the truth is, and people, I think people really haven't caught,

00:15:19.840 caught on to this. The next few years are going to be extraordinarily difficult, I think,

00:15:28.880 economically, culturally, politically, and socially. This notion that we've enjoyed in the post-war

00:15:35.920 period in the West, the, the world's always going to be better. Your children are always going to be

00:15:41.040 better off than you were. And technologically, that'll probably still be the case. You know,

00:15:45.520 they will probably still live longer and they'll still have better gadgets and whatever. But

00:15:50.160 the idea that they're going to be richer or that it's going to be easier for them to get a job,

00:15:55.200 young people, you know, it's really, really difficult for a lot of people. And I think

00:15:58.800 that's only going to get worse, unfortunately.

00:16:00.400 I look, I completely agree with you. I think that the reality is, is this is the beginning of the tough

00:16:06.560 times. We have seen chronic mismanagement by successive governments for a long time. And now

00:16:15.200 the chickens are coming home to roost, in particular with lockdown.

00:16:17.760 Just to interrupt, sorry, I want to hear the rest of your point, but I would go,

00:16:20.880 I think you're right about chronic mismanagement by several, you're bang on the money. I think

00:16:25.520 it's actually a bigger issue. Now, I think it's a, a broader problem. It's a global problem,

00:16:30.240 actually. The, the, the way that the economy has been managed, the getting into endless levels of

00:16:35.360 debt, never even trying to pay it off is a west wide phenomenon and perhaps extends beyond that.

00:16:41.280 Sorry.

00:16:41.520 No, no, no, no. But again, that absolutely agree. And we are at the very beginning. I was

00:16:47.920 thinking about it the other day. It kind of reminded me, like the COVID is kind of like

00:16:54.160 when, when we shut everything down and we gave money, what we basically were like was like a

00:16:59.200 landlord and everybody came in for a pint and we didn't have enough beer. So what do we do? We

00:17:05.040 just watered down the alcohol. Everyone got their beer, but no one was getting pissed. Yeah.

00:17:11.040 And all of a sudden what this point that you were expecting to make, give you that warm,

00:17:15.440 fuzzy feeling and take you to a better place, all of a sudden it ain't doing that. And that's what we're

00:17:20.960 all feeling with our pockets, with the money that we've got. It isn't going to go to where it used to be.

00:17:27.600 I can see why you don't drink anymore. The graphic way in which you described that just doesn't give

00:17:32.880 you the buzz. It doesn't. And I think that's the hard stuff. And Bitcoin, exactly. And I think that

00:17:41.440 people, more and more people are waking up to that fact. And you're looking at, and we've raised

00:17:47.680 Bitcoin. Bitcoin was the kind of get rich quick scheme for our generation. But again, with the SB,

00:17:55.600 with Sam Bankman-Fried or whatever his name is. Well, that wasn't Bitcoin specifically,

00:17:59.360 but I know what you mean, right? Crypto. Yeah, I'm talking about crypto in general,

00:18:03.680 because for our generation, really difficult to get on the property ladder, very hard to,

00:18:08.800 so what are you going to do with your money? Invest it in crypto. That was the dream. And again,

00:18:13.840 that's gone by the wayside. So I think a lot of people are looking at the economic landscape and

00:18:19.120 thinking to themselves, I don't know how I'm going to do what I'm going to do with this.

00:18:26.080 I don't know how I'm going to make this work. I don't know what my options are. Everybody is taking

00:18:31.520 a real world pay cut and things are getting more expensive. Well, it's almost like the period of

00:18:36.800 time that we're living through is just so completely different to everything that came before.

00:18:42.560 And I think you're right. The pandemic was definitely the catalyst. Then you have the war

00:18:48.240 in Ukraine. And the war in Ukraine, people have different views on how it started and what's going

00:18:54.160 on and what we should do about it and whatever. But it's the first time in a very long time that

00:18:59.600 you've had full scale military conflict in Europe, between two major nations in Europe,

00:19:06.240 in which everyone has felt that they've been somehow affected by it. It has thrown the very

00:19:12.560 idea of globalization combined with obviously COVID and China into the bin. And as Peter Zeyhan

00:19:20.640 talked about, the globalization is basically over. And that's not necessary that there are

00:19:25.920 that globalization did a lot of damage to certain individual people. But it was also the foundation

00:19:30.800 of Western prosperity and prosperity around the world in many ways. So that being undone quite

00:19:38.400 rapidly in a short period of time is going to have massive impact on the world. And yet I also think

00:19:46.320 that it's going to be an exciting time at the same time. Because I think particularly in the cultural

00:19:54.400 space, and you and I have talked about it with a few guests, but the one thing I'm really conscious of is 0.97

00:20:00.000 those of us, like you and I, who made it our business to oppose woke idiocy. And we did it 0.98

00:20:07.120 for a number of reasons, I think. Would it be fair to say that with you, it was because A,

00:20:11.680 you saw it destroying comedy, and B, your background in terms of your family in Venezuela,

00:20:16.640 and seeing what the far left can do when it gets off the rails?

00:20:19.600 Yeah. Or not necessarily off the rails, when it gets given an opportunity to run rampant.

00:20:27.120 Yeah. But yeah, that's fair.

00:20:28.320 Yeah. And not dissimilar in my case. I think in my case, it was, I mean, comedy was obviously a big

00:20:34.000 part of it. But I'm also just someone, because of my background, and because of what my ancestors

00:20:38.720 went through in the Soviet Union, you know, the concept of truth has so much value to me that I

00:20:45.280 wasn't prepared to go along with, you know, two plus two equals five. And that's increasingly what

00:20:50.000 we were, we felt we had to do. So we started trigonometry by opposing all this woke idiocy. 0.99

00:20:56.320 And in the process, I also think we feel that there are some people who go too far in another 0.98

00:21:00.800 direction. And we've, they were always there, but it's just, I guess, we were feeling our way out

00:21:05.840 and trying to understand where do we map into this whole thing. And I think now it is a responsibility

00:21:12.000 of people like us. And I hear different people having these conversations, like

00:21:16.800 Peter Thiel gave a talk to the NatCon conference, and he talked about a positive vision for the

00:21:21.760 future. And he doesn't exactly have one, but, and I don't exactly have one, and you don't exactly

00:21:26.080 have one. But I think people, enough smart people, or smarter than us people at least, are asking

00:21:32.800 questions like, well, what is the positive vision for people like us? Why should anybody

00:21:39.520 join our tribe, whatever that tribe is, right? Not the right wing lunatics tribe and the far left 0.66

00:21:47.120 lunatics tribe, but the non lunatic tribe? Why should anyone be on board with us? Because we've spent

00:21:52.080 quite a lot of time opposing things, saying, well, that's wrong, and that's stupid, and that's, but 0.98

00:21:57.760 what do we have to offer the world? What does our way of thinking, what does, what do the questions we 0.97

00:22:04.960 ask have to add to the conversation? And that's something I've been thinking about a lot, and

00:22:10.240 having my son has, has made me think about that even more. Yeah, because it's not enough to be

00:22:15.440 against something. Yeah. You can't base an identity on being anti something. You've got to be, because

00:22:22.240 if you look at music, you know, if you, every musical movement is a reaction to the one before,

00:22:28.480 but it's not just, oh, we are going, we, we dislike this, this, and this. It has its own sound.

00:22:35.920 It has its own tribe. It has its own way of being. It has its, it, you know, there's many different

00:22:41.760 things that form a new musical movement. So for us, it's important to actually think to ourselves,

00:22:48.080 well, what do we want to create? Because it's not enough to be anti. It's not enough to criticize.

00:22:53.680 Because let's be fair, the easiest thing in the world is to stand on the sidelines and criticize

00:22:58.080 people. We can do that all day long. Yeah. But if you want to make something better, if you want to

00:23:03.520 actually be a force for good, if you want society to improve, then you need to be a creator.

00:23:08.880 Absolutely. And I think this is one of the, in some ways, the tragedies that I think about

00:23:13.680 culturally that have occurred as a result of this woke idiocy, is too many people who are very creative

00:23:21.760 creative have now ended up in a position where, like us, rather than doing the creative thing 0.94

00:23:27.680 that they were always doing, instead, they're just talking about not being able to be creative.

00:23:32.880 Or they're, you know, they've gone from, you know, like, Winston Marshall, he's a very good friend

00:23:37.040 of ours, or the two of us, or Andrew Doyle, or you can, you can go on and on and on. There's a whole list

00:23:43.040 of creative people who used to make comedy or music or whatever, who's now, whose job now mainly

00:23:50.720 is to do something else. And I think that's something we need to address, actually. And so,

00:23:56.240 you know, there's a few conversations happening behind the scenes. But that is definitely one of the

00:24:02.560 items on my agenda for the next few years is how do we, you know, I'm tired of talking, look,

00:24:09.120 I haven't done stand-up since the pandemic began. And I'm really happy not doing stand-up. But,

00:24:13.920 you know, you and I do raw shows three nights a week. And that is an outlet for both of our comedic

00:24:18.400 and creative energies. But I think we need more. I think, I think that we've got to rather than going,

00:24:26.000 you know, diversity and wokeness and all this stuff has made all the TV comedies that we used to love 0.98

00:24:32.240 shit. We've got to make our own stuff, you know, and I think that's, that's the future. Likewise with music,

00:24:38.080 likewise with theatre, likewise with all sorts of things. And people should know that there is work

00:24:42.720 being done behind the scenes on those fronts. Yeah, it's got to happen and we've got to do it.

00:24:47.760 Because otherwise, all you're doing is complaining. It's glorified complaining. And I always see...

00:24:54.000 It's not even that glorified. No. It's just complaining.

00:24:56.400 Yeah, it's complaining. And I always see complaining like scratching a bit of eczema,

00:25:01.440 where at the, in the moment it feels good, but...

00:25:05.040 It doesn't improve anything. It doesn't improve anything.

00:25:07.760 And actually, long term, it just makes you feel worse. Because all you do is focus on the negatives.

00:25:13.360 And eventually, you just start spiralling because all you see are negatives. Whereas if you create,

00:25:19.760 that's much more positive. Because number one, it's more enjoyable. And number two,

00:25:26.240 good things happen when you create. Good things happen. You meet new people. You talk to new people.

00:25:31.760 New things, new opportunities open. And also, as well, people see you creating,

00:25:37.120 and that then spurs them on to do their own thing. And that's how communities are built.

00:25:41.600 Well, absolutely. With trigonometry, I think it's... I don't think we're blowing our own trumpet to say that

00:25:48.000 a lot of people in the UK didn't do what we do back when we started, and they now do it. And I think

00:25:54.320 part of the reason is they looked at us and went, well, if those two idiots can do it. 1.00

00:25:57.200 Yeah. 1.00

00:25:57.520 So can we. And that's great. That, you know, there's something that Joe Rogan always talks about,

00:26:01.600 which is he wants as many, as many people as possible to have a podcast and do a thing and

00:26:06.160 whatever, because you're trying to build... You need more people doing something than just a couple.

00:26:12.480 So, you know, we always try and encourage people as well. And I think that's really important.

00:26:18.320 So the question I wanted to ask you is, what have been some of the biggest mindset changes or ideas

00:26:26.000 that you've come up with during the last year that have changed how you look at the world?

00:26:30.000 The biggest mindset changes that... We had a business meeting with someone and we were talking

00:26:40.160 about, you know, trigonometry. And I was saying, and I made the point of, you know, the mainstream media

00:26:49.520 and I was just like going, you know, the problem with the mainstream media is, you know, they take

00:26:53.280 people and then they like comedians and they, you know, sanitize them and whatever else. And he just

00:26:58.960 looked at me and went, yeah, that's a victim mindset. And I was like, you're right. And then

00:27:05.360 I think it was you who made the point who said something about the mainstream media. And he went,

00:27:09.600 you are the mainstream media. And we were like, what? And he went, of course you are.

00:27:14.400 You've got hundreds, over half a million subscribers across all platforms. You are the mainstream media.

00:27:21.120 Millions of people watch and listen to you every month. You are the mainstream now. And that was a very

00:27:27.440 big moment where I was just, because I still, in my head, fringe is the wrong word. We're not fringe,

00:27:33.280 but I, that's what, if you see what I'm saying. I don't know exactly what you're saying. Well,

00:27:38.080 the thing is that the mainstream doesn't exist anymore in the way that it did because

00:27:42.480 in the nineties and the eighties, if you were on TV, everybody knew who you were because everybody

00:27:48.800 watched the same five channels in this country. Now, there are very, very few big stars. Like,

00:27:55.040 as we're sitting recording this, Jeremy Clarkson wrote a piece about Meghan Markle in which he

00:28:01.680 fantasized about her being subjected to the same thing as Queen Cersei in Game of Thrones.

00:28:08.480 And it was quite obviously a reference to that, but most people didn't get it because most people

00:28:12.320 haven't seen Game of Thrones, even though Game of Thrones is one of the biggest shows in the history of

00:28:16.800 the last 10 years, right? So that mainstream celebrity and fame, it just isn't available

00:28:22.160 anymore for the vast, vast, vast majority of people, even with sport, to be honest, you know?

00:28:28.720 And so I think, I think sadly for everyone watching, this is what the mainstream is going to look like

00:28:34.560 going forward. Yeah. And, but that to me was, that was a really eye-opening moment where someone was

00:28:40.720 going, no, what you've created now, you are part of the mainstream and you need to think,

00:28:47.440 act and behave like that. Yeah. And this idea that, you know, you're on the side, you know,

00:28:52.800 you're on the side, you're, you know, you're, you're fringe and whatever else, you're not. You are part of

00:28:58.080 the mainstream and you should accept that and you should embrace that and you should really step into

00:29:02.960 that role. And I think that's very important for both of us as we move forward. What about yourself?

00:29:09.120 Um, I think that's a big part of it. I think that one of the things that's happened this year is

00:29:17.920 my own audience has grown a lot, particularly on social media, doing the book and around the war

00:29:23.920 in Ukraine, it meant that a lot of people wanted to hear what I had to say. So, uh, I think the,

00:29:28.800 I'll end the year on like 200,000 Twitter follows, which is insane. And it's made me sort of behave more

00:29:34.880 responsibly if I'm honest, because I'm like, okay, quite a lot of people are watching this now.

00:29:38.800 I can't just, you know, uh, troll people in the same way that I used to or whatever. I don't,

00:29:44.880 I don't think I would troll people, but I would be more abrasive in the way that I communicated.

00:29:48.960 And also I think fatherhood has also had that effect on me as well, where I'm like,

00:29:52.560 okay, this is, you know, I have to, I don't yet have to be an example because you won't have social

00:29:58.880 media for a long time, but, uh, at some point I'm going to have to be an example. And I take that

00:30:05.120 responsibility very seriously. So that's been one of them. And the other thing is

00:30:09.920 one of the things that's happened over the course of the last year in particular is

00:30:13.920 trigonometry is, it's got bigger and bigger and it's meant, you know, as we always talk about,

00:30:19.760 every time the show gets bigger and we generate more revenue, the only thing we ever think about

00:30:25.280 is, okay, we need to hire another person so that the week, we can not be constantly overworked

00:30:31.040 and overwhelmed and dropping the ball here and dropping the ball there. And our team has grown

00:30:36.160 to the point where, you know, in addition to me, you and Anton, our executive producer, we now have

00:30:42.400 two more full-time staff and five or six part-time staff as well. And that's a big team to manage.

00:30:49.840 And, you know, whether we liked it or not, I mean, I always say this, you know, we're two idiot comedians 0.92

00:30:55.600 that started a podcast, but we now have like a small business to run. And it's completely changed 0.80

00:31:00.400 how I think about the economy, the tax system, the whole thing, because, and the America trip really

00:31:09.200 helped to see things in a different way as well, because I don't think in this country,

00:31:14.000 we quite appreciate how difficult we make it to run a small business.

00:31:19.120 Yeah, it is. And this isn't, again, coming back to the victim mentality. We are doing well in terms

00:31:26.000 of, you know, growing our audience and putting out great content. And I'm really proud of the stuff

00:31:31.520 that we've created over the last year. But it is not easy to run a business in this country. And when

00:31:37.360 you go to America and you see what it's like over there, it does make you think. And every time,

00:31:42.880 you know, every time I turn on the TV now, and we've got these strikes going on at the moment and all

00:31:46.800 of that. And I sort of think, the way we talk about people who have started a business or people

00:31:51.840 who are wealthy or people who are successful, it's almost like baked in that they're somehow evil

00:31:57.360 in this country. I don't know if you think that's true or not. But like, we always talk about, you

00:32:02.640 know, they've got to pay their fair share. And, you know, the top 1% of people in this country pay 33%

00:32:08.160 of all income tax, and the top 10% pay over nearly 70%. The top 10% pay nearly 70% of all income tax.

00:32:16.400 How evil are they? Do you know what I mean? And I'm not saying there aren't people at the very top

00:32:22.080 who are getting away with things or avoiding tax or whatever. But the truth is, I think, if people

00:32:27.440 understood how fucking hard it is to run a business of any kind, and most big businesses started out as 0.60

00:32:34.000 a small business, their attitude would be different. I agree with you. 0.80

00:32:39.920 And by the way, this is an area where you and I have spied a lot, because you come in with

00:32:43.840 your working class credentials, the who's responsible, the rich must, you know. 0.87

00:32:49.200 Yeah. Look, the problem is, is that I think when people talk about these things, they talk about

00:32:55.280 it in an emotional way. Yeah.

00:32:56.960 The reality is, if somebody who's doing very well for themselves, and it has a small business.

00:33:01.440 Which we're not.

00:33:02.080 Yeah. Send us money. And let's say they're on six figures. That, to me, is not wealth.

00:33:09.360 Yeah. That's not wealth. It's just income.

00:33:12.240 That's it. Yeah. That's someone who's doing well for themselves, and that should be celebrated,

00:33:17.040 and all the rest of it. I think what people conflate with the two is people like Bezos,

00:33:23.920 who, you know, use every loophole possible in order to avoid paying corporation tax.

00:33:29.600 Allegedly. Allegedly. Please don't sue us. If you do, actually, it'd be good to sue us,

00:33:33.440 because then we get loads of publicity. But I think that's what people mean.

00:33:36.800 Yeah. But there's like five people like that in the world. Yeah.

00:33:40.960 Right? And they should all pay more tax. I agree. Yeah.

00:33:43.680 Their companies should. But that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is like,

00:33:47.680 you and I had a big debate about the strikes recently, right? And the nurses, for example,

00:33:52.880 are asking for a 19% pay increase. Yeah. Which is unrealistic.

00:33:56.640 Well, I agree with you. But my point is something else, which is this. Like, for example,

00:34:00.880 with trigonometry, right? We've actually taken a huge risk

00:34:04.560 risk in getting the studio. We spent probably the best part of 40 grand building what we need,

00:34:11.040 right? And that is, that's, we built a war chest over the last year, because we knew we were going

00:34:16.640 to step up to this level. Yeah.

00:34:18.560 Right? But right now, I'm sitting here thinking, well, you know, you and I have already,

00:34:22.720 and Anton have taken a pay cut, just so we can keep all our staff who we need to do,

00:34:27.280 make the show. And so we can continue to pay for the studio. And I'm looking at our finances going,

00:34:31.120 we better fucking step our game up next year, because I don't know how we're going to find 0.90

00:34:35.120 the money to pay for everything that we need, you know? And I think most small businesses in 0.90

00:34:39.520 this country, particularly in the current economy, are operating on exactly the same basis. They're

00:34:43.760 just making do, and just trying to make sure they don't have to lay off people around Christmas,

00:34:49.360 and so they can have the money to organize a Christmas party, and all of that sort of thing.

00:34:53.280 And that is, to a significant extent, what a lot of people who are creating the jobs in this country

00:35:00.480 are going through. It's not like their life is plain sailing. And yet, whenever we have these

00:35:04.640 conversations in public, it seems to me like we demonize the very people who create the jobs

00:35:10.880 and the opportunities for people in this country by taking a risk, man. Let's be honest, you and I

00:35:16.000 didn't take any money out of trigonometry. And in fact, we paid our own money into trigonometry so we

00:35:20.960 could pay Anton the measly sum of 500 quid a month to edit all our episodes, right? And by

00:35:26.320 a mistake, even though he was a vegetarian. And we did that for, what, two and a half, three years?

00:35:31.360 Yes.

00:35:31.760 Right? It wasn't until the pandemic...

00:35:33.440 Yeah, that we started to take...

00:35:34.880 That we started, we got any salary at all. So, and we basically, I mean, not every small

00:35:40.800 business does this, but you and I essentially ruined our existing careers and made ourselves very

00:35:45.520 toxic in the comedy industry because we believed in what we believed in. So we stepped up and we took

00:35:50.720 a risk. And now, thank God that I don't believe in, but thank God we've created a small business

00:35:57.040 that employs over 10 people. And those people now not only have a salary, they have a meaningful,

00:36:03.120 they have meaningful work. And I don't know if you feel this way, but for me,

00:36:07.920 other than family, that is the number one priority in my life, to do something that I believe in,

00:36:13.120 that I'm passionate about. And the truth is, this is the first job that I've ever had when

00:36:18.800 I felt like that, you know? And I know that for many of the people who work on trigonometry,

00:36:24.400 they feel the same way. They feel the same way. And that means something, and that's valuable.

00:36:30.240 And yet, you know, people who do that and who create those small businesses,

00:36:35.120 they're sort of seen as these, you know, they're somehow suspect.

00:36:38.800 Yeah.

00:36:39.200 And I used to feel that. I remember when we had Rupert Lowe on the show, you know,

00:36:42.800 Rupert Lowe, business guy, owner of Southampton formerly, et cetera. And he talked about,

00:36:48.320 you know, we'll ask staff this. And there's always like, well, you're this posh guy with loads of

00:36:52.800 money and whatever. But the more we do this, the more I realized that while of course there will be

00:36:58.960 some people who get involved in all sorts of shenanigans and whatever, for the most part,

00:37:02.880 people who start businesses are actually really important. And I don't think they get enough

00:37:09.920 credit in this country. I think in America, they almost get too much credit, you know,

00:37:13.600 and there's not enough expected of them in terms of contributing to society. But I think in this

00:37:18.320 country, we have it the wrong way around as well.

00:37:20.160 Yeah. Well, small businesses are the bedrock of our economy. They always have been,

00:37:25.440 and hopefully they always will be. And that's why I was so against a lot of what the pandemic,

00:37:30.560 the actions and the policies brought in by the pandemic, because it was to punish the small 0.91

00:37:36.400 business owner, the average person, you know, with the mom and pop business, as they call it in the

00:37:41.280 States, whilst effectively giving helping hands to the huge conglomerates and letting these small

00:37:48.720 businesses go to the wall. And it was a tragedy. And look, I do agree with you. I think this country is

00:37:54.640 built economically on the backs of small businesses who do a lot of good, who do a lot of good, not

00:38:01.120 only for themselves and for this country, but for society as a whole. You look, people,

00:38:08.960 the staff who come in and work with us learn far more than if they went to work for a CNN or an MSNBC

00:38:15.280 or BBC, not to say that they won't learn, because of course they will. But when you get involved in

00:38:20.800 this type of production, you have to learn so many things. You have to be more flexible. The skill set

00:38:27.680 that you generate as a result of that is just far broader and deeper. And look, I do agree with you

00:38:34.800 that we do, that we don't give small business owners enough credit. I think the problem is, is that

00:38:40.240 our culture and our society, when it comes to finance and economics, is illiterate. A lot of

00:38:46.640 people don't understand. They think that, you know, if you're an entrepreneur or if you're someone who's

00:38:51.520 got your own business, that automatically means you're very wealthy, when the reality is

00:38:56.160 a very high percentage of small businesses fail. Most businesses just make it to the end of the month

00:39:02.320 if they can pay everyone and the guy at the top, or the lady, yes.

00:39:05.760 Yes. Unlikely.

00:39:07.040 Yeah, unlikely. Statistically, draws a salary. That's a win.

00:39:11.120 They're jokes, guys.

00:39:12.480 That's a win.

00:39:13.680 Yeah, completely. And that, but that's how, I mean, trigonometry has been like that since

00:39:18.320 forever. And it's like that now. I think people see the numbers and they see how many people we

00:39:24.000 have on our locals. But this is literally, it's hand to mouth every month. We built up a war chest to

00:39:29.120 be able to do this. That's gone now. And our costs of, I mean, this studio costs about three times

00:39:35.520 to four times as much as our last ones. Yeah.

00:39:38.000 And that's why you and I are taking less money and so is Anton, just so that we can manage it.

00:39:43.040 And, you know, I already, I'm already thinking, you know, we've got to come back next year and do

00:39:47.280 this and do this and do this and do that. Because, you know, I hope people watching this understand

00:39:51.200 this isn't, this isn't making Francis and Constantin wealthy project at all in the slightest.

00:39:56.880 No, this has always been a passion project. Yeah.

00:40:00.080 It always has. And to be, but the reason is, it's like for us to be able to do this as a job

00:40:07.440 is the best thing that's ever happened. Of course it is.

00:40:09.760 In our, in our professional careers, this is the best thing that's ever happened.

00:40:13.040 Yeah. Of course it is. Because it's very rare people are in control of their own destiny.

00:40:19.440 Even top level comedians. Yeah.

00:40:22.960 You know, you're still at the whims of... Say the wrong thing.

00:40:25.680 Yeah. You're still, and the casting agents and the, you know, the booking agents and the

00:40:30.960 directors and fashion, all of a sudden you may be flavor of the month one moment, the winds change

00:40:35.840 for whatever reason, and you're not as desirable, you're not as bookable. You know, there's always a

00:40:41.120 new hot young thing that's coming onto the scene. So we're very blessed to be in control of our own

00:40:46.720 destiny. Yeah. Yeah. And we work very hard because of that. Yeah. And we work very hard because of

00:40:52.800 that. And, but there is something very special to going into work and knowing that you are the one

00:41:00.320 who is going to make the decisions that ultimately will lead to success or failing.

00:41:07.040 Yeah, absolutely. So I suppose the point of this section is give us money.

00:41:10.880 Yeah. I'm joking, but not joking.

00:41:14.960 Hey, Francis, do you like locals? I live in London, mate. So obviously not. The only pleasure I get

00:41:21.280 from the locals is when we share an intimate moment as we watch a Japanese tourist get trapped in a tube

00:41:27.520 door. That is good. But I wasn't talking about the locals. I was talking about our community on locals.

00:41:35.680 You mean the one where you get phenomenal behind the scenes content when you...

00:41:39.760 The actual space, please, please, please, please, please.

00:41:41.600 The actual space, please, please, please, please, please.

00:41:42.720 Where you get to ask incredible guests like Jordan Peterson, Brett Weinstein, Bill Burr,

00:41:50.160 Sam Harris, Adam Carolla, Heather Hying, and others your questions.

00:41:55.440 Not just that, you can get supporter only benefits like trigonometry mugs,

00:42:00.160 monthly calls with other top supporters and even a regular meal with me and Francis.

00:42:04.960 You also get phenomenal behind the scenes footage of our trip to America,

00:42:10.960 where we met a whole host of incredible guests and gave ourselves terminal indigestion.

00:42:16.880 We're also starting to do monthly giveaways for locals only. The first one will be signed

00:42:21.520 copies of Andrew Doyle's new book. Plus, you get access to an incredible community of like-minded

00:42:28.960 people who share memes, have fun conversations, and most importantly, you get to make new friends.

00:42:36.080 You can support us with as little as $7 or about £5 a month, or give us more for the higher tier benefits.

00:42:42.800 Go to trigonometry.locals.com. Go to trigonometry.locals.com and support the show.

00:42:52.000 You mentioned the pandemic, Francis. Now, that seems to be over.

00:42:56.720 I mean, it's not. Yeah. Well, isn't it? No.

00:43:00.240 What do you mean? Well, I don't, I mean, well, I mean, COVID is still there,

00:43:03.840 but I'm not talking about that. I'm saying that- The consequences are.

00:43:06.960 Yeah. Well, that's what I want to talk about. Yeah.

00:43:08.800 So, for me, this is, the pandemic was everybody going out and splashing the cash. All of a sudden,

00:43:17.360 we've woken up to the credit card bill, and everybody here is wondering how the hell are we

00:43:22.080 going to pay it? I agree. And I think, obviously, the economy, you know, poverty kills people.

00:43:28.160 Yeah. Fuel poverty kills people, and it will kill a lot of people this winter. And that is the product

00:43:32.640 partly of many things, but one of them is the spending during the pandemic. We have record

00:43:40.640 excess deaths in this country at the moment. And we warned about this. We had many guests

00:43:45.520 on the show to warn that these decisions that were being made were not cost-free.

00:43:50.160 And yet we were, you know, people would attack us and, you know, say we're being irresponsible

00:43:55.520 and whatever, even though I think the truth is we've been proven right on that.

00:44:00.240 Yeah. That's also the government's fault as well, because the government scared people.

00:44:04.480 Yeah. They put the fear of God into them. And, you know, people were terrified of this virus. And

00:44:11.200 look, let's be honest, it's a nasty bug. Well, you and I have had it three times now. Yeah.

00:44:15.440 And the first, well, for you, all three were quite bad. Yeah.

00:44:19.600 Weren't they? The third one was all right. The third one was all right. Whereas for me,

00:44:23.680 the first one was barely noticeable. And the second, the middle one was really bad last year.

00:44:28.160 And the one we had recently was, it wasn't fun, but it was okay. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not pleasant,

00:44:33.600 for sure. Even for no longer young, no longer healthy, but whatever we are. Yeah. Middle-aged men.

00:44:39.840 Middle-aged men. But, and also, it's important that we say this, chronic financial mismanagement,

00:44:47.600 and there was a lot of money that was, let's put it bluntly, misappropriated.

00:44:52.160 Of course. But that's always going to happen when everyone's in a panic and, you know, whatever.

00:44:56.000 Not to excuse it, of course, but that was always going to happen. You know, I haven't told the story,

00:45:01.040 I think, on camera before, but it just illustrates to me some of the lengths that people were prepared

00:45:07.040 to go to. And I don't think people really get it. So exactly a year ago,

00:45:13.760 there was a protest in Parliament Square that Silky Carlo organized, one of our former guests

00:45:21.040 from Big Brother Watch, which was against vaccine mandates. And Sophie, our video editor and I,

00:45:26.720 Harman, who works for us as well, and I, we went along to protest. And we got, it was a miserable,

00:45:33.920 wet, windy December day. It was really unpleasant. We got to Parliament Square and there was,

00:45:43.600 I don't know, maybe 150 people there. It was the dampest of all squibs. You know, it was muddy.

00:45:50.880 And then we got there and because I'd been quite outspoken about this issue and people,

00:45:56.000 a lot of the people who were there would have known me, Silky shoved a megaphone in my hand and,

00:46:01.600 you know, I said something, I don't remember.

00:46:05.280 I don't know what to say. I don't know what I feel today. It feels like a very strange time to be

00:46:08.960 alive in this country. I'm an immigrant to this country. I came here in 1995. I was brought up in

00:46:15.280 the Soviet Union and we saw the erosion of our freedoms and civil liberties immediately and also 0.94

00:46:20.880 over time. And that's why I'm here. And that's why I'm talking about this stuff, because that is what

00:46:27.200 is happening. Your rights are being taken away. I know that you might feel underwhelmed by the

00:46:32.960 number of people here. I know that sometimes it feels like you're protesting, you're speaking out

00:46:37.840 against it, nothing is happening. But know that people are watching, people are hearing what you're

00:46:42.000 saying. And we've got to keep it up. We've got to keep it up. We can't give up. We can't stop talking

00:46:46.800 about it. We can't stop protesting about it. And when people see that more and more people are against

00:46:51.600 this stuff, they will support us and we will make some changes. Thank you very much for coming out

00:46:55.600 today. And when Sophie and I were coming back to the studio, I was so deflated by the whole

00:47:08.480 experience because I was just like, look, we live in a country of people who've given in.

00:47:13.360 They've accepted the idea that medical staff and care workers, et cetera, should be fired from their

00:47:19.440 jobs that they've done in many cases for decades because they don't want to be vaccinated for

00:47:25.440 whatever reason. And they must be made to be vaccinated. And I felt, Sophie, myself, I think

00:47:32.080 most of us felt that it was just, it was wrong. It was a line that must never be crossed. But I felt,

00:47:39.120 going back on the tube or wherever it was, I just felt really deflated by the fact that so few people

00:47:44.000 were out there and we were clearly not going to have an impact and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:47:49.440 Um, but eventually the government did reverse that decision. And what was fascinating was that

00:47:55.920 when, when my wife was giving birth, uh, she was planning to give birth at home. 0.60

00:48:01.280 Uh, and that's not how it worked out. Uh, you know, she, she spent the whole pregnancy being all

00:48:07.040 holistic and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But we actually ended up having to go to hospital

00:48:10.960 at quite short notice with her screaming in the back of the car. Uh, it was quite an experience.

00:48:16.160 And then she had a long and it wasn't long, but it was arduous labor. And she was really adamant

00:48:23.120 that she did not want to have any medical intervention unless it was absolutely necessary.

00:48:27.360 But it was looking very much like she was going to have to have a C-section. And I knew that,

00:48:31.680 you know, it really wasn't going to be mentally good for her. She would blame herself and she'd be

00:48:36.800 upset and whatever. And it was a long, I don't want to get into all the details, but it was

00:48:41.840 a really long and arduous labor and it was very stressful. And actually her plan was that I

00:48:46.320 wouldn't be in the room when she was giving birth. She was going to have it all, you know, 0.96

00:48:49.440 in the dark and blah, blah, blah. But I was in the room and I had to kind of talk to the midwives and

00:48:54.480 sort of manage the whole process to some extent. And right as things were looking really bad,

00:49:01.840 um, this midwife came in who hadn't been there before and she was absolutely brilliant. And

00:49:08.880 because of her, because of this one woman, uh, my wife was able to give birth naturally 1.00

00:49:14.080 and our son popped out and he was all healthy, even though it'd been, you know, there was some risk

00:49:18.800 involved and whatever. And after all, you know, he was born, uh, he was covered in myconium,

00:49:26.240 which is like baby poo, which means that he was getting to the point where he was distressed in

00:49:29.680 the womb. Um, and, uh, when, when he was born, he was this tiny little thing and he popped out.

00:49:37.040 And the, as he popped out, this midwife started like rubbing him with a towel and he, and, and she 1.00

00:49:43.040 went, pull the emergency cord and like someone pulled the emergency cord and like seemingly dozens of

00:49:48.480 people ran into the room and I just stood in the corner like this as they all did something.

00:49:52.080 And eventually they cut the umbilical cord and this neopathologist came and looked at him,

00:49:57.120 made sure he was okay. And he was absolutely fine. So happy ending. And then when they all left

00:50:03.360 and it was just us, uh, with, with our son and this midwife, and, uh, she started asking us various

00:50:11.840 questions. And one of them for the medical questionnaire was, uh, are you vaccinated? She had to ask my

00:50:18.320 wife. Um, and my wife didn't want to get vaccinated because during her pregnancy, because, you know,

00:50:24.080 I think a lot of women were concerned about it and who knows if they were right or not, but my wife 0.99

00:50:27.920 felt very strongly that she didn't want to be. And this midwife who'd been incredible

00:50:36.960 asked this question and I felt bad because I was like, well, she, I'm sure, you know, she, she'll think

00:50:41.520 that my wife and, you know, would made the wrong, whatever. Uh, and I started going, well, you know,

00:50:47.280 but it's sort of making excuses almost. And she went, oh, don't worry. I'm not vaccinated.

00:50:52.720 And I was like, really? And we started talking about it. And then eventually I said, so you must

00:50:58.080 have felt very strongly about the government trying to mandate these vaccines. And she went, yeah, I was

00:51:06.000 going to quit. And my son would not have been born the way that he was born if she hadn't been there,

00:51:14.560 you know? And so when I think back to that pointless protest and whatever, and I don't

00:51:20.800 know if it made any difference at all, but I felt that the stand that we took and many other people

00:51:25.520 took at the time for what we believed in, even though who knows what impact we had, but it was

00:51:31.520 important that somebody, somebody made that stand. And by the way, I probably caught COVID

00:51:36.560 at that protest. It's quite possible because that was the day we had, it might've been at

00:51:40.720 that protest or it might've been in the evening where we had one of our live shows.

00:51:43.600 Yeah, I remember it.

00:51:44.480 So we either caught it there or we gave it to everybody there, who knows, right?

00:51:48.160 But it wasn't impact free. My point is this, neither us being public about our opinions at the time

00:51:55.680 or going to that protest or doing any of the other things that we did. And yet in some small

00:52:00.000 way, I feel like the way he was born was a reward for us making that stand, you know?

00:52:06.720 And I think during the pandemic, we really found out who's who in terms of who's going to be there

00:52:14.800 when the vast majority of people go off the deep end like Lemmings. And that's, I'm sorry,

00:52:20.160 I know that people were scared, but that's what I feel people were doing during the pandemic.

00:52:24.160 I think a lot of people panicked. I think a lot, and people in government too, overreacted,

00:52:30.320 went too far. I think red lines were crossed on many occasions. And I'll be honest with you,

00:52:37.920 man. I don't think we're going to get the sort of public inquiry we need to make sure it doesn't

00:52:42.880 happen again. And I think that the next time there is a pandemic, I think it will be as bad,

00:52:47.680 if not worse. Yeah. I agree with you. I agree with you. I think, unfortunately,

00:52:56.880 nobody, some lessons are too painful for people to be able to digest. And I think the pandemic is

00:53:08.000 going to be one of those things. I think people behaved, some people behaved so awfully that it

00:53:15.520 is probably going to be too painful for them to look at their own behaviour

00:53:19.920 and to be able to analyse it and actually learn from it. Some people will. Some people will hold

00:53:27.120 up their hands and go, you know what? I was really wrong on this one. I was really wrong when it came

00:53:31.680 to vaccines. I was really wrong with the vaccine mandates. I was really, really

00:53:36.880 out of line, the way I spoke to certain people. But I don't think a lot of people will want to look

00:53:44.000 at it like that. I think a lot of people will frame it as, it was a pandemic. What are you going to do?

00:53:50.880 And then move on. And the sad thing is, is not learn from it. Because I think that moment that we all went

00:53:59.040 through, I think it was a moment which revealed a lot of things. When moments of crisis happen,

00:54:06.640 that's when the mask slips with people. And you actually see people for who they truly are,

00:54:11.360 both good and bad, of which we have in all of us. But I think with a lot of people, you saw the

00:54:17.680 authoritarianism come out. You saw the desire to control people. You saw the anger. You saw also the fear.

00:54:25.600 And how fear does... People say that jealousy is a very toxic emotion. And jealousy does create

00:54:36.560 toxic emotions and makes people do awful things. But in many ways, fear does as well. Because if you

00:54:42.640 think your own health or your safety is on the line, then you will do whatever it takes in order to make

00:54:51.520 sure that you are safe. And if that means throwing somebody metaphorically in the way of fire?

00:54:58.000 The thing that bothered me about it was irrationality as well, though. Because you and I...

00:55:04.000 Look, you and I also adjusted our views over the course of the pandemic. And our own experience with

00:55:10.320 COVID was a bit of a wake-up call. Because I think we were perhaps a little bit too lackadaisical about it

00:55:17.280 at times. You know, I mean, ultimately, I think we were broadly speaking on the right path, which was,

00:55:23.760 you know, the vaccine is really good for people who are elderly or vulnerable, but probably not

00:55:29.120 necessarily necessary for other people, particularly those who've had the disease before and who've got

00:55:34.560 some natural immunity. And we kind of stuck to that. But the irrationality, like when it was very clear

00:55:41.760 that lockdowns were not saving lives, when it was very clear that masks didn't actually prevent

00:55:48.160 the transmission of COVID, when it was very clear that COVID vaccines are not effective enough at

00:55:53.840 preventing transmission, to demand that people inject something into their body, that we now know,

00:55:59.680 as we knew at the time, carriers were at certain risks. To force people to do that, just...

00:56:04.560 I think to me, that goes beyond authoritarianism. And it is, like I say, it's a red line.

00:56:12.880 Bodily autonomy is such a fundamental thing about what it means to be human. The idea that I don't

00:56:19.920 get to inject things in your body. I mean, it's not complicated, is it? No.

00:56:25.600 But people were willing to invent all sorts of excuses at the time. And there'll be people out

00:56:30.880 there now who demand that. And it also, it moved into other realms as well. Like,

00:56:38.960 it's quite common now for people to go, well, someone says something I don't like, they should

00:56:42.000 be arrested. Yeah. Arrested for saying something.

00:56:48.800 And it just, that creep of, I get to control other people because I don't like what they do.

00:56:56.960 There was moments during the pandemic, and we've talked about it before, and we were not,

00:57:03.840 as trigonometry, as a business, we were not ready to up sticks and move to another country. We weren't

00:57:09.520 big enough. We didn't have the resources, the finances. We didn't have money in the bank to be

00:57:13.680 able to do it. But despite that, me, you, and Anton were sitting there going, look, if this other

00:57:19.840 thing happens, we have to think about moving to America. Yeah.

00:57:23.280 And like one of two states in America where you can have freedom still, you know, because I just,

00:57:29.360 I just thought we went so, so far in this country. And it scared me. And I'll be honest with you,

00:57:36.560 you know, I love this country, but I have to say, it fundamentally changed my view of this country.

00:57:42.240 I think forever. Yeah. Forever.

00:57:44.880 It changed my view of this country. I was shocked at how many people

00:57:52.880 relished the petty authoritarianism. Yeah.

00:57:55.680 And I don't use that word lightly. They loved it. They did.

00:57:59.040 They absolutely loved the opportunity to tell their fellow citizen

00:58:03.600 what to do, how to do it, when to do it, where to do it. And you just think,

00:58:10.160 this isn't the country that I grew up in. This isn't the liberal tolerant society that I thought

00:58:17.200 that I lived in. The amount of people who just, there's the glee that they felt that they could

00:58:24.240 tell another person what to do with their body, where to go, how to behave.

00:58:32.240 I, I, it really, it disillusioned me because I remember when I was a kid and every time I went

00:58:39.040 to Venezuela and Venezuela has always been chaos. That's the way it always is. You know, it's Latin 1.00

00:58:42.800 America. And I always remember coming back to England and just as a kid, even as a kid,

00:58:49.280 like breathing a sigh of relief because it felt sane. And I remember in the pandemic going,

00:58:55.920 this is insane. This is the definition of insane. The way we're living, the way that people are behaving,

00:59:02.240 the policies, none of this makes any sense. And I was the one,

00:59:09.920 oh look, I'm going to be honest, I still want to leave.

00:59:12.880 Do you? Yeah. How come? I don't see a lot of future in this country.

00:59:19.760 Why not? Economically, it's broken. I don't think we have the caliber of politicians to,

00:59:27.120 to lead us out of this, either right or left. This isn't a partisan thing. If I saw incredible

00:59:31.520 people on the left, I'd be like, yep. I don't see anybody on the right who's got, who's a strong

00:59:36.800 enough figure to actually come out and be honest with the population. I don't see people of character

00:59:44.160 or vision on either side. I think, I think this is, we're in a really tough time. And if it was just

00:59:52.880 a tough time, but there were people that I looked at who I thought we can get behind them as a country,

00:59:59.200 I wouldn't be worried. That's not where my worry comes from. The fact that we are in this financial

01:00:05.200 situation. It's the fact that I'm looking at people in government, in power.

01:00:13.280 Who is there? That's what worries me.

01:00:21.120 I understand. I wonder though, I mean, if you were living through the 1990s, would you have not felt the same?

01:00:27.040 The 1990s? Yeah. What part of the 90s? The early 90s. John Major's government,

01:00:33.920 or the end of Thatcher, or whatever. It's all limping to the, to the death knell, to the,

01:00:39.920 whatever the fucking metaphor is. Yeah, yeah. Limping into their own grave. Right. And then 1.00

01:00:45.040 Tony Blair comes along. Yeah. Fucks it all up. Invades Iraq, mate. Invades Iraq. No, but

01:00:50.080 you see what I'm saying. Yeah, I do. Look, I think to, to despair at the fact that our politicians

01:00:56.720 are not able to deal with the problems that the country faces is correct. But where are you going

01:01:03.840 to go? I would rather go to somewhere in, I'd rather, I'd rather go to America. Yeah. And look,

01:01:10.640 who are the politicians of, of vision and leadership there? Trump.

01:01:18.720 And AOC. And AOC. I just, I find the American spirit invigorating. So do I. So do I. But the

01:01:28.240 question for us is, see, I don't want to leave anymore. I think when we were in America, it was

01:01:33.760 exhilarating. Yeah. And we were going to, if, if we can fund them, we will do two more trips next

01:01:41.600 year to go and interview big guests and, and, and continue our expansion. And, and we have a huge

01:01:48.240 audience in America. Yeah. You know, I think the UK is something like 40 percent and America is 40

01:01:55.120 percent for us. So, you know, we've got as big an audience in America as we do here.

01:01:58.400 Yeah. But I think that, first of all, I don't like running from challenges, number one. Number

01:02:10.000 two, America has all these same problems, not economically quite as much, but culturally,

01:02:15.580 many other problems are worse in the United States. And you want to have children eventually.

01:02:22.760 And I have one already and maybe more later. I know people who live in America now who,

01:02:31.800 who are saying like, I want to move back because I can't face putting my children in this education

01:02:37.040 system, you know? And also, I mean, if Tim Poole will have you believe, and you know, him and I

01:02:43.800 disagreed with him about this on his show and he followed me on Twitter straight afterwards. But,

01:02:48.520 you know, there are a lot of people like Tim who are pushing the civil war narrative very hard.

01:02:53.280 Yeah. And that's, you know, probably because it, you know, it generates a lot of attention,

01:02:57.200 but also because there are people who are, we saw this too when we were in America. There are many

01:03:02.520 people in America who are very polarized and they have guns. Yeah. Right. So, I think I understand

01:03:10.680 what you're saying and I understand, but I also think that on these cultural topics that we,

01:03:19.360 we talk about on the show, we can win the fight in the UK in a way that you're not going to win in

01:03:26.400 America. You're just, the trans issue is not going to be like it is in the UK. No. We're winning here.

01:03:31.980 Yeah. We are winning and we are going to win. And you and I have put our reputations on the line

01:03:37.740 and our careers on the line to get people on the show who could explain that issue to us. And once

01:03:42.380 we understood what was going on, there was no way back. Right. And the more we talk about it,

01:03:48.580 the more we understand that there's no way back. And we're not going to give up until that issue is

01:03:52.360 dealt with properly. Right. And we're making progress. The Tavistock is shut down and is being

01:03:56.840 sued. And I'm not saying we did that, of course, but we did have one of the whistleblowers on the show

01:04:01.300 and other people talking about. Mermaids has now been exposed for what it is. The gender 1.00

01:04:07.160 recognition, you know, we're making progress. And I believe on that issue, we can win the fight.

01:04:11.980 The free speech issue is more difficult here than it is in America. But I just think we can make more

01:04:18.040 of an impact here. And look, the fact is we're a British show, man. Yeah. See, that is true.

01:04:22.980 I think a lot of our American audience wouldn't watch us if we were just like, you know,

01:04:26.740 the sixth best Joe Rogan in America. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Completely. I do

01:04:31.960 understand that. I do understand that. And it is a good point to make. I, to me, the pandemic was

01:04:41.240 something. Look, we did very well out of the pandemic. We all improved ourselves massively.

01:04:51.120 The pandemic helped to create this.

01:04:56.740 And it just, seeing what happened to the country that I grew up in, to the people that I identified

01:05:03.960 with, the behaviour, the politicians, the rhetoric, it took me back.

01:05:17.020 I understand that. I think the other piece I would maybe add is that you've got to realise

01:05:22.060 that in America, a lot of that was happening at an even higher level.

01:05:25.680 Yeah. And they went more extreme in many states.

01:05:27.420 Of course, in the Democrats, and particularly in blue states like New York, et cetera.

01:05:31.020 But also, I would say that this is, again, like that guy said to you, it's victim mentality.

01:05:35.820 I think this is an opportunity for you to recognise the scale of what we've created here.

01:05:40.300 You know, people sometimes say to me, Constantine, why don't you run for parliament? And I'm like,

01:05:44.160 because I'd have less influence being an MP than doing trigonometry.

01:05:47.360 Yeah. And that's true of you too.

01:05:49.200 Yeah.

01:05:49.520 Like, we are one of the biggest independent media shows in this country.

01:05:53.780 Yeah.

01:05:54.220 And, of course, we don't have the ear of government, but we are helping to shape the way that at

01:06:02.860 least our part of society looks at things and thinks and we're bringing interesting people

01:06:07.080 on.

01:06:07.260 And I think, I think, I don't think we'll be leaving is the truth.

01:06:12.720 No, I don't think we'll be leaving either.

01:06:14.360 And that being the case, I think it's time for both of us to accept the challenge.

01:06:19.280 Yeah.

01:06:19.660 That's been thrown down to us.

01:06:20.760 We've created this.

01:06:22.060 A lot of people listen and watch our show, listen to our show and watch it.

01:06:24.840 But it's our job to stand up for what we believe in and to bring on people who we think are

01:06:31.340 doing that.

01:06:31.900 Yeah.

01:06:32.100 You know?

01:06:32.640 And, of course, we're always going to give a voice to different views and people who agree

01:06:36.660 with us and people who disagree with us.

01:06:38.160 But I think, particularly on this authoritarianism issue, it's our job to be the voice of people

01:06:42.820 who don't want that in their country.

01:06:44.640 And the most gratifying comment that you've always said to me, and I agree with this, the

01:06:50.800 most gratifying comment you and I receive from people who come up to us in the street

01:06:54.320 or message in or whatever is, you got me through the pandemic.

01:06:57.460 And part of that was, for a lot of people, hearing that dissident voice going, no, we're

01:07:02.760 not accepting this.

01:07:03.620 No, this isn't normal.

01:07:04.820 No, this isn't natural.

01:07:05.960 No, it's going too far.

01:07:07.160 Yeah.

01:07:08.320 All the catchphrases.

01:07:09.740 All the catchphrases.

01:07:10.540 But a guy came up to me in the shopping mall once, it was a few months ago now, and he

01:07:19.760 had these three little children with him.

01:07:21.540 And one of the, for people who don't watch our Raw shows, which is like a current affairs

01:07:27.820 daily satirical show that we do like a live stream every, we do three times a week.

01:07:34.080 One of the catchphrases, whenever we talked about Jacinda Ardern or particularly her or 0.97

01:07:38.820 Australia was like, get back, get in the camp, you c***. 0.99

01:07:41.320 That was the thing. 0.99

01:07:42.860 We're going to need to bleep out c*** because YouTube, I said it again.

01:07:45.780 YouTube demonetizes any video with that word in.

01:07:51.440 And he came up to me and he said, mate, oh, thank you so much.

01:07:55.040 You got us through the pandemic.

01:07:56.360 And then one of these like eight year olds went, get in the camp.

01:08:00.060 And he was like, he doesn't know the other part of it.

01:08:02.020 But my point is, you know, we contributed to people and a lot of people said we kept them

01:08:08.740 sane and whatever.

01:08:10.420 That's our job, man.

01:08:11.520 Yeah.

01:08:11.820 And I understand the appeal and there are so many great things about America, but the

01:08:17.720 way I feel about it, look at the studio.

01:08:19.340 The reason the studio exists is partly because we went to America and we saw how people who

01:08:24.640 do what we do in America do it.

01:08:27.600 And they have their own compound where they have a nice green room and a place for people

01:08:32.180 to hang out and a big studio and their own space.

01:08:35.680 And they're not moving from residential apartment to residential apartment as we used to do.

01:08:39.800 That's why we've stepped up.

01:08:41.120 And I believe our fans will back us.

01:08:42.640 They will make it possible for us to carry on doing this.

01:08:46.120 And we got to pay them back, man.

01:08:48.260 And I think that's our job.

01:08:50.020 That's our mission.

01:08:50.860 That's our project.

01:08:51.500 So I understand the temptation of the United States.

01:08:54.640 I just think we got to take that spirit and bring it here. 0.85

01:08:57.580 And it's going to be fucking hard because lots of people in this country don't want 0.83

01:09:00.560 that. 0.96

01:09:01.080 They don't want the go get mindset.

01:09:03.380 They don't want that.

01:09:04.580 They want to, you know, this is the thing that really bothers me so much is like so many

01:09:10.160 people in this country just want the government to take care of them.

01:09:13.220 Of course.

01:09:13.900 But that's what the pandemic exposed.

01:09:15.840 I know.

01:09:16.620 The amount of people I saw on Facebook going, oh, the government have to take care of me.

01:09:21.520 I'm like, what?

01:09:25.540 The thing is, there's no such thing as the government.

01:09:27.820 The government is just other people in the country who pay taxes so that you can get what

01:09:31.740 you want.

01:09:32.240 Yeah.

01:09:32.560 That's what it is.

01:09:33.320 There's no such thing as the government.

01:09:34.320 The government is just the entity that administers the money they get from other citizens.

01:09:39.300 And why do you deserve special treatment?

01:09:43.060 Yeah.

01:09:44.180 You know, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have a welfare state and a safety net to catch

01:09:49.000 people if they fall.

01:09:49.900 And we've all been there to some extent, you know.

01:09:52.480 But I think we need to, you know, we need to step up, man, rather than running away and

01:09:59.740 going, well, I am disappointed.

01:10:02.100 And you are with the way that things happen.

01:10:04.500 But we've got to step up.

01:10:05.640 That's what I feel.

01:10:06.840 And we've got to play our part.

01:10:09.820 And, you know, we didn't intend, we started a podcast to understand what was happening

01:10:13.820 in the world.

01:10:14.400 But now we are a voice for some people.

01:10:16.860 Of course.

01:10:17.340 And we have to do right by them, I feel.

01:10:22.360 And so that's why I don't want to leave.

01:10:24.440 I think when we were in America, we talked about it.

01:10:27.040 And look, who knows what the future brings.

01:10:29.580 But I think for the foreseeable future, I feel that it's our job to stay and it's our

01:10:34.340 job to fight.

01:10:35.280 It's our job to fight.

01:10:37.200 You know, there are a lot of people who start a show and some of them will have more viewers

01:10:42.860 and more followers.

01:10:43.800 And that's fine.

01:10:44.560 They just interview celebrities about, you know, what was it like to be depressed and

01:10:48.560 what was it like to be this and how did you become successful?

01:10:51.320 And those are really interesting things to watch and enjoy.

01:10:54.380 But I think for us, we talked about it being more of a passion project.

01:10:57.960 And that's, I think, how a lot of people experience what we do.

01:11:02.900 It's partly about passion and it's partly about bringing common sense and rational discussion

01:11:11.860 and honest discussion of difficult subjects so that things actually change as a result.

01:11:17.980 You know, we're not just creating entertainment for people to just watch while they make dinner.

01:11:23.120 There's also, there's a mission here too.

01:11:25.360 And I think we have a responsibility to be true to that.

01:11:28.720 Yeah.

01:11:29.560 Look, I agree with all those things.

01:11:32.860 And I think what I was saying when it was about America, it's just legitimately how I

01:11:38.300 feel about my disappointment with everything that was happening and the political class.

01:11:44.140 But I do agree with you.

01:11:45.100 The reason that we created this show was because we wanted to find out what's going on.

01:11:53.040 And now when we've seen what we've seen and what we've experienced and you see the injustices

01:11:58.280 and you see the things that don't get talked about, but they should be spoken about.

01:12:02.860 And the thing that really annoys me is when people are too scared to have a conversation

01:12:10.400 and to actually be honest and frank about it.

01:12:14.560 And how the moment certain subjects pop up, people immediately try and like, almost like

01:12:21.840 whack-a-mole, hit them on the head because they don't want to address them. 1.00

01:12:25.540 You know, the migrant crisis. 0.82

01:12:26.900 And what happens is when people start talking, they just start saying narratives, things like,

01:12:32.120 you know, these people are desperate and they've come over here and, you know, every person,

01:12:35.880 no person is illegal, whatever it may be, and that we should look after these people.

01:12:40.540 And you go, well, look, on one level, of course, you are right.

01:12:44.480 But that's not how real life works.

01:12:47.060 That's not how you have a functioning country.

01:12:49.580 That's not, you're not even doing the right by these people by doing that.

01:12:53.980 Or their countries.

01:12:54.580 Or their countries.

01:12:55.620 And all you're doing is facilitating organized crime.

01:12:58.960 But if you're not prepared to have the conversation, then you're not prepared to actually try and

01:13:03.340 come to some kind of solution.

01:13:05.520 And that's why I think that the most important thing that we do is, is to model respectful

01:13:11.760 conversation.

01:13:12.800 About right-wing talking points.

01:13:13.900 Exactly.

01:13:15.000 Because the only, because by doing that, that's the only way you're going to come to a solution.

01:13:20.320 That's the only way you're going to be able to solve these particular issues.

01:13:23.380 And there are several examples where you can tell that that has absolutely been the case.

01:13:28.080 I mean, if you look at the issue of grooming gangs, the episode that we've done that I'm

01:13:33.800 most proud of, and I always say this, is with Ella Hill.

01:13:36.440 Yeah.

01:13:36.620 I think she's an extraordinary woman.

01:13:39.680 And that episode that we did with her is an extraordinary episode.

01:13:42.680 I mean, we're talking to a survivor of gang rape and abuse over a long period of time.

01:13:49.140 And it's funny.

01:13:50.260 I mean, and that's all credit to her, by the way.

01:13:53.100 Yeah.

01:13:53.220 Because she was brilliant.

01:13:54.540 And that's why when we were on Joe Rogan, it was one of the first things that we talked

01:13:58.000 about.

01:13:58.300 Because, you know, I knew it was going to come up one way or another.

01:14:01.500 I mean, you got in there early with the pedo banter.

01:14:05.020 But, you know, it needs talking about.

01:14:07.800 And look where we are now.

01:14:08.800 Yeah.

01:14:09.020 Now everyone accepts that the grooming gangs happened.

01:14:11.820 Now everyone accepts that it needs to be dealt with.

01:14:13.860 Now everyone accepts it's a big problem.

01:14:15.560 I'm not saying we did that.

01:14:16.520 We didn't do that.

01:14:17.140 There were many, many more people who campaigned about it.

01:14:19.460 But people like Ella and others.

01:14:21.780 And so, whether it's the transgender issue, whether it's the migrant crisis, whether it's

01:14:27.440 and there'll be, you know, people say, well, these are right wing.

01:14:30.240 There'll be left wing points as well that we've covered on the show.

01:14:34.000 You know, our episode with Julie Bindle, for example, right?

01:14:37.440 The, these things, you know, the first man through the breach always takes most of the

01:14:44.140 arrows.

01:14:44.460 But for whatever reason, you and I want to be that first man, you know, or maybe we don't

01:14:48.760 want to be, we just feel a duty to be.

01:14:50.460 Yeah.

01:14:50.820 To some extent.

01:14:52.100 Not saying we're first on any issues before people get carried away, but we, we, we feel

01:14:56.680 it's our duty to address the things that people don't want to talk about that need talking

01:15:00.640 about.

01:15:01.140 Well, the whole point of trigonometry is that you go into the eye of the storm.

01:15:04.580 That's the whole point of it.

01:15:06.000 And that's what people want from us, is to go into the eye of the storm and to talk about

01:15:10.340 these big contentious issues that people are too scared to talk about, that politicians,

01:15:14.480 when they go on the question time, they will give empty platitudes because nobody really

01:15:20.800 wants to talk about the truth of the subject, whatever the subject may be.

01:15:24.640 And that's really our job.

01:15:26.420 Yeah.

01:15:26.900 Well, speaking of question time, you reminded me that there's actually been a lot of personal

01:15:30.860 accolades that you and I both have achieved this year, stuff going on.

01:15:33.900 You've just had a tour and you're about, I mean, by the time this is out, you will have

01:15:37.280 finished your dates and other things going on.

01:15:39.300 What have you really enjoyed this year?

01:15:41.680 I've really enjoyed, and this is going to sound wanky, I've really enjoyed the journey

01:15:46.580 of it. 0.81

01:15:47.820 Gay. 0.99

01:15:48.580 Gay. 1.00

01:15:50.160 Don't agree with it. 0.98

01:15:51.140 It's not natural.

01:15:52.680 I've really enjoyed the journey of it.

01:15:54.340 I've enjoyed where we started from.

01:16:00.300 You know, the...

01:16:02.140 I didn't.

01:16:04.720 But no, it's important.

01:16:06.720 It's really, you know, I always, when I remember when I started comedy and I was working with

01:16:14.600 comedians, they were always going, I can't wait to get off the open mic and I get on to

01:16:20.520 do bigger gigs.

01:16:21.360 I want to do this.

01:16:22.140 I want to do that.

01:16:22.780 I don't want to be here.

01:16:24.140 And I was always, my attitude was always like, no, you should enjoy this.

01:16:28.080 You should remember this.

01:16:30.120 Because if you don't, then you're not going to be able to appreciate what's gone and what

01:16:37.160 is coming.

01:16:38.620 You're not.

01:16:40.000 Think about the first interview we ever did where there was the beeping car alarm and we

01:16:46.360 had to run around and then the person was furious because it turns out they'd come from

01:16:51.520 a funeral and then we had to, our first ever interview started with me giving a groveling

01:16:57.360 apology.

01:16:59.900 You could argue that's the way it's been for the rest of time.

01:17:03.400 But you need to go through those experiences.

01:17:07.300 You need to go through the being asked to leave studios.

01:17:11.620 You need to be going through, you know, the arguments.

01:17:15.140 You need to go through... 0.98

01:17:16.380 No, I agree with you, but it was fucking hard. 0.99

01:17:19.560 It was hard. 0.93

01:17:20.380 I was looking at our stats the other day because a friend of ours started a YouTube channel

01:17:25.080 and we did 11 interviews, including with Brendan O'Neill, Claire Fox and Diana Fleischman.

01:17:36.120 And we'd been going for two months and we hadn't even got 500 subscribers.

01:17:43.380 That's how hard it was.

01:17:44.720 It was really hard.

01:17:46.060 And at this point, we're paying our own money.

01:17:48.160 There's no guarantee of success.

01:17:50.040 Of course. 0.97

01:17:50.520 We're fucking going from studio to studio. 0.99

01:17:52.780 It was brutal. 1.00

01:17:53.800 It was brutal.

01:17:55.560 But we had to go through it.

01:17:57.200 I agree.

01:17:57.920 If we had...

01:17:58.520 I didn't enjoy it though.

01:17:59.500 No, no, no, no, no.

01:18:01.020 But you did.

01:18:03.200 You did.

01:18:04.220 Do you remember when we first went to the Soho Theatre to watch Andrew's show and Diana

01:18:09.020 Fleischman broke 20,000 views, how excited we were?

01:18:13.100 Yeah.

01:18:13.620 And you went to me, it's not always going to be like this.

01:18:16.880 You've got to temper your expectations.

01:18:19.520 Do you remember that?

01:18:20.220 Yeah.

01:18:20.780 Do you remember walking out of that interview with Brendan and being like, oh, this was brilliant?

01:18:25.580 Or when Sargon came and then we had that rush of subs and we got to three and a half

01:18:30.200 thousand.

01:18:31.500 Do you remember that?

01:18:32.460 Yeah, that was big.

01:18:34.120 I remember you shitting yourself when interviewing Sargon. 0.67

01:18:36.400 Yeah, of course I did.

01:18:37.760 Because I saw my career disappearing in front of my eyes.

01:18:40.960 Correct.

01:18:41.560 Do you remember when we went to that conference and then we first met Douglas Murray and then

01:18:45.640 we interviewed him and then the interview got cut short, not for technical reasons,

01:18:51.080 but because the cleaner wanted to come and clean and she had to kick us out. 1.00

01:18:54.320 It wasn't the cleaner, actually.

01:18:55.560 It was a woman who had booked the room for something else. 1.00

01:18:58.080 Yeah.

01:18:58.840 But you assumed she was a cleaner. 0.98

01:19:00.000 She was a cleaner, exactly. 1.00

01:19:00.720 Yeah, because she was a woman. 0.99

01:19:03.200 And it was tough, but there was joy there.

01:19:09.040 There was a famous, you know, there was a band of honor and the lead singer was called

01:19:14.520 Kurt Cobain.

01:19:14.880 Even I've heard of them.

01:19:15.820 Yeah.

01:19:16.380 And on his guitar, he always had a sticker which said, the beauty is the struggle.

01:19:21.700 And it is.

01:19:23.340 Because that's what makes you appreciate it.

01:19:25.600 And the moments when you're in the struggle, that's what forges you.

01:19:29.800 That's what makes you tough, the fire.

01:19:31.820 It's not the easy part.

01:19:33.340 It's not going on, Rogan.

01:19:34.820 It's not.

01:19:35.800 I mean, look, America was great, but why was it so good?

01:19:39.040 The reason it was so good.

01:19:40.560 We worked for it.

01:19:41.720 It's because we started in a pub.

01:19:44.100 Yeah.

01:19:44.340 No one gave us anything.

01:19:45.740 No.

01:19:46.240 And we went from that to there.

01:19:48.900 And if people had given us things and it was, it wouldn't have been as sweet.

01:19:54.180 We had to do that.

01:19:55.960 Yeah.

01:19:56.380 It's only by having that do you get the joy.

01:20:01.980 And even in those tough, tough moments, there were still moments of joy.

01:20:07.880 Yeah.

01:20:08.680 Yeah.

01:20:09.240 It's true.

01:20:10.060 It's true.

01:20:10.720 I have to say, though, I enjoy my life a lot more now, you know.

01:20:14.620 And it's been, you know, obviously my son being born and all that, but it was the year

01:20:19.940 that I was on Question Time.

01:20:21.700 My book was a Sunday Times bestseller.

01:20:23.700 I mean, it's embarrassing how few books you have to sell to get on that list.

01:20:26.880 It really is.

01:20:27.980 And as I realize now, no one makes any money selling books, basically, unless you become

01:20:33.500 like, even if you're a Sunday Times bestseller, not particularly.

01:20:36.400 Yeah.

01:20:36.760 But it's still an accomplishment.

01:20:39.220 Yeah.

01:20:39.860 And it hasn't gone out yet, and I can't wait for it to go out.

01:20:42.560 But I did a debate in the Oxford Union, and let's just say I didn't hold back.

01:20:48.800 So I'm looking forward to that coming out.

01:20:50.500 So those were really exciting moments for me this year, in addition to, obviously, the

01:20:55.320 America trip, going on Rogan, interviewing some of the guests that we've interviewed

01:21:01.700 over the course of the last year.

01:21:03.340 Yeah.

01:21:04.020 And, you know, this studio is the big, big next step.

01:21:08.380 Yeah.

01:21:08.740 The big next step.

01:21:09.680 And it's a risk.

01:21:11.580 You know, we've jumped perhaps a little bit further than we ought to have done if we were

01:21:17.800 being prudent.

01:21:18.840 But I think and hope that our ambition will be rewarded.

01:21:22.980 I think it will be rewarded.

01:21:24.440 I think it will be rewarded.

01:21:25.600 Because ultimately, you need to overreach yourselves at times.

01:21:31.480 Because it's only by doing that can you actually get to the next level.

01:21:35.760 And a lot of the time, you need to make that leap.

01:21:38.940 And we were forced to make that leap.

01:21:42.300 So...

01:21:42.840 Yeah, but we didn't have to do this.

01:21:44.340 We didn't have to build our own studio from the ground up, basically.

01:21:47.020 Because this was just one empty room.

01:21:49.060 And now it's a studio with a green room and an office area and whatever.

01:21:54.020 But we wanted to do it because we saw that...

01:21:57.140 We did have to do it.

01:21:58.700 Why?

01:22:01.000 Because...

01:22:01.600 We didn't have to move here.

01:22:03.260 We could have moved to another flat.

01:22:05.520 No, but we did have to do it.

01:22:07.260 Because it was what was needed.

01:22:09.740 So we had to do it.

01:22:10.700 What I'm saying is we could have played it safe.

01:22:16.440 When have we ever played it safe?

01:22:19.040 That's a good question.

01:22:20.080 We haven't.

01:22:21.000 The whole point of trigonometry is that you never play it safe.

01:22:24.720 You just don't.

01:22:26.340 If we played it safe, none of this would exist.

01:22:29.280 It's true.

01:22:29.840 The podcast wouldn't exist.

01:22:31.240 The show wouldn't exist.

01:22:33.200 Nothing that we ever did was about playing it safe.

01:22:36.380 That's why it succeeded.

01:22:37.680 Because you don't succeed by playing it safe.

01:22:40.140 Yeah.

01:22:41.020 It's true.

01:22:42.140 Well, I hope we carry that on then.

01:22:44.600 Because, you know, we've got a lot of work and we've got some...

01:22:47.560 Already got some brilliant guests lined up for next year.

01:22:51.480 We've got to finish the studio.

01:22:52.860 We've got to get the neons up. 1.00

01:22:54.660 There's lots of stuff that we've yet to do.

01:22:56.720 But we've already recorded some great interviews in here too.

01:22:59.740 Some brilliant interviews.

01:23:00.840 Yeah.

01:23:01.880 So what are you looking forward to next year?

01:23:03.920 I'm looking forward to...

01:23:06.280 I should have mentioned my tour.

01:23:07.520 I love my tour.

01:23:08.400 I love meeting the trigonometry fans.

01:23:09.980 That was so fun.

01:23:11.300 The feedback that I got from people.

01:23:13.480 The gigs that we did.

01:23:15.360 And I say we did because the audience is always 50%. 1.00

01:23:19.440 Wanky shit. 1.00

01:23:22.460 Not true. 1.00

01:23:23.180 But they always are.

01:23:26.860 And I couldn't have asked for better audiences.

01:23:29.420 They were great.

01:23:30.380 And I'm looking forward to doing more comedy.

01:23:32.520 I'm looking forward to...

01:23:34.020 I'm going to be doing more shows next year.

01:23:35.740 I'm going to be doing some more of my tour.

01:23:38.240 I'm going to do it in cities like Glasgow.

01:23:40.700 I'm going to be going up to the Northwest.

01:23:42.580 So I'm really looking forward to doing that.

01:23:44.820 I'm really looking forward to doing more comedy and just being...

01:23:48.020 And getting a chance to be more creative.

01:23:50.500 That's what I'm looking forward to.

01:23:52.000 Really.

01:23:53.140 Because like you, we've just been so focused on this.

01:23:57.660 Making this the very best it can be.

01:24:00.180 So actually, just taking some more time just to get back to being creative.

01:24:05.660 Which was always my first love anyway.

01:24:07.820 I'm really looking forward to it.

01:24:09.480 Yeah, that's exciting, man.

01:24:10.560 That's really great for you.

01:24:11.800 And I think it's really important because Raw is a great comedic outlet for you.

01:24:15.360 But you always love stand-up.

01:24:17.000 Yeah.

01:24:17.840 There's nothing like it.

01:24:19.600 I disagree.

01:24:20.320 But you think that way.

01:24:21.600 Yeah.

01:24:21.940 So that's what matters.

01:24:23.300 It's because you've forgotten.

01:24:24.620 No.

01:24:25.480 Yeah, you have.

01:24:26.440 I haven't.

01:24:27.440 You and I have done live shows.

01:24:29.280 We did a live show.

01:24:30.360 We did two live shows in Edinburgh.

01:24:32.580 Yeah, but it's not stand-up.

01:24:34.600 I just think we're very different people psychologically.

01:24:38.040 Yeah.

01:24:38.560 I think you really crave that attention and love from the audience.

01:24:43.440 And I never really cared about the audience.

01:24:46.040 I didn't.

01:24:47.060 Yeah.

01:24:47.340 I didn't.

01:24:47.940 It's like, I think it was either Bill Hicks or George Carlin when he was getting heckled.

01:24:52.600 He said to the heckler, they're here for me and I am too.

01:24:56.900 Yeah.

01:24:57.340 Yeah.

01:24:57.780 Yeah.

01:24:58.000 Like, that was always, I mean, maybe it's slightly psychopathic, but I always wanted

01:25:03.140 to get away from a gig the moment I was done.

01:25:05.780 I never really wanted to meet audiences.

01:25:08.080 With our shows, I do.

01:25:09.280 Yeah, yeah.

01:25:09.980 Because they're trigonometry fans.

01:25:11.320 But at stand-up, I never really wanted to do that.

01:25:13.220 I did it when I was doing my own show a little bit and it was fun, but I never really felt

01:25:17.940 that desire.

01:25:19.760 But I think you really like that.

01:25:21.180 Yeah.

01:25:21.840 And it's important.

01:25:22.600 That's why to you, stand-up is so special.

01:25:24.600 To me, that's why I don't do it anymore.

01:25:26.220 If it was that special to me, I'd find a way to do it.

01:25:28.280 Yeah.

01:25:28.500 But I don't.

01:25:29.620 You know, I am much more excited about my sub stack than I am about ever doing stand-up

01:25:34.040 again.

01:25:34.480 Yeah.

01:25:34.760 Like, I am really enjoying writing.

01:25:37.320 And the book showed me that writing books is not the way to go.

01:25:42.600 It doesn't mean I won't do another book at some point if I feel like I really want to

01:25:45.940 get something substantive out there.

01:25:47.220 But my sub stack is really exciting to me.

01:25:50.080 I'm writing articles all the time.

01:25:51.620 I get to express my opinion.

01:25:52.920 And because, you know, I used to write for various newspapers, but now I can write about

01:25:59.600 whatever I want.

01:26:00.340 I don't have to tie it to a current news event.

01:26:02.940 Not everything has to be, you know, look over here.

01:26:05.920 You know, I can write about something more significant or something that happened three

01:26:10.180 years ago that I think is relevant to today or put things in context in a way that you'd

01:26:13.880 never get an opportunity to.

01:26:15.400 And I really enjoy writing.

01:26:16.620 I always have done.

01:26:18.360 So I'm really excited about that.

01:26:21.840 In addition, but the thing is, we've got gigantic plans for trigonometry.

01:26:26.600 Not only the America trips, but also the guests that we're going to get here and all sorts

01:26:30.480 of other stuff that we'll be talking about next year.

01:26:33.620 And, you know, one of the things we realized is that we need to improve our social media and

01:26:39.340 community management game on locals.

01:26:41.160 We're also getting to the point where Roy's getting so big that, frankly, given the outrageous 0.98

01:26:49.000 shit that we say on there, that we need to consider paywalling that or paywalling most 0.97

01:26:54.240 of that. 0.97

01:26:54.660 Not because we want to, you know, make more money from it, just because we're eventually

01:26:59.360 going to get attacked for.

01:27:00.480 You know, people, we don't live in a world where people understand jokes anymore.

01:27:04.940 No.

01:27:05.400 And the stuff that we say on there is all done tongue in cheek with humor.

01:27:10.140 But all it takes is for some twat from The Guardian to clip it out of context.

01:27:14.040 And suddenly we find ourselves in the middle of having to explain why we wear a Nazi hat 0.90

01:27:18.700 on and do the Nazi voice for a joke.

01:27:22.580 Right.

01:27:24.400 So it may be the case that we put out shorter clips on YouTube after the Raw is done or it

01:27:29.480 goes on local, whatever.

01:27:30.920 We'll work it out.

01:27:31.840 But, you know, there's going to be interesting things going on and changes happening, which

01:27:36.760 people always love.

01:27:37.540 They love change.

01:27:38.240 Yeah, they do.

01:27:39.040 Especially like when we just swap seats.

01:27:41.020 Yeah.

01:27:41.200 People have a meltdown when we change seats, so let's see what happens when we change other

01:27:44.660 stuff around.

01:27:45.420 But, you know, I'm really excited for next year.

01:27:49.580 And I also feel like we had a Christmas party a couple of days ago and having most, unfortunately

01:27:56.200 couldn't get everyone here.

01:27:58.240 But most of the people, I think, had so much fun and they, you know, our team loves being

01:28:03.200 here.

01:28:03.500 They love working on the show.

01:28:06.080 And it's exciting building that with them as well.

01:28:08.560 It is.

01:28:09.080 It is.

01:28:09.480 It's so invigorating building this.

01:28:12.920 It's really.

01:28:16.020 Seeing this come together is honestly one of the most gratifying things that we've done.

01:28:20.480 Because what we're doing is we're taking a step into the unknown.

01:28:24.940 Yeah.

01:28:25.540 And it's scary.

01:28:26.400 But it's the only way to live.

01:28:32.640 Because...

01:28:33.120 On the edge.

01:28:33.740 Yeah.

01:28:34.920 Of your bank balance.

01:28:36.260 Yeah.

01:28:36.960 Literally.

01:28:37.600 But because if you play it safe, if you do what everybody else has done, then you're

01:28:45.700 never really going to be truly successful.

01:28:47.620 No.

01:28:47.780 But you're also not being true to yourself.

01:28:49.600 Yeah.

01:28:49.700 I don't think being like everyone else has ever been what either of us has wanted.

01:28:53.440 No.

01:28:54.020 That's why we do this.

01:28:54.880 Yeah.

01:28:55.320 You know.

01:28:56.940 Man, it's been an incredible year.

01:28:59.400 And, you know, that growth that we're constantly going through is addictive.

01:29:04.940 It is addictive.

01:29:05.820 And you know what?

01:29:06.620 Because when we came back from America, there was various personal things.

01:29:11.780 It was quite a tough time.

01:29:13.180 It was a tough time for me.

01:29:16.140 And the thing that I realized, and look, it's a truism and everyone knows it.

01:29:21.760 But sometimes you need a good...

01:29:24.820 You need to go through a tough time in order to appreciate it.

01:29:27.920 You learn far more when things aren't going well, both about other people and yourself,

01:29:34.480 than you ever do when things are going well.

01:29:37.420 Because when things are going well, you know, you don't have to really look at yourself.

01:29:44.960 You don't really have to think about, you know, your actions or your behavior or your manner

01:29:51.940 of being or all of these things.

01:29:53.520 But when things are going tough, that's the moment.

01:29:58.760 And actually, if you're prepared to take on those lessons,

01:30:04.060 you come out a lot stronger and a lot better,

01:30:06.060 even though the process of learning those lessons is not pleasant.

01:30:11.380 Yeah.

01:30:11.940 And I know exactly what you're talking about.

01:30:14.360 And, you know, you had various personal things with family.

01:30:16.900 And, you know, you and I are always trying to work out the best way for us.

01:30:21.540 And sometimes that we argue and it's difficult and painful and whatever.

01:30:24.720 But the thing that I've really learned this year is that, look, I've always been a driven person

01:30:35.940 and I've always been successful in the things that I've done.

01:30:40.600 I'm not saying I've always been super, I haven't been super wealthy,

01:30:43.960 but if I've done something, I've done it well and I've had success in it.

01:30:47.040 That's all I'm saying.

01:30:47.700 I'm not trying to be arrogant.

01:30:48.700 And so I think when, you know, trigonometry goes well and I've got this book

01:30:54.440 and I've got this and I've got that and everything's going great,

01:30:58.040 it's easy to think in that moment that, you know, I'm this and I'm that.

01:31:03.760 But the truth is that the biggest lesson for me out of recent years and out of doing this

01:31:12.820 is if you want to do something meaningful, you can't do it by yourself, you know.

01:31:18.160 And you've really taken this, you know, I remember, I hope you don't mind me telling the story,

01:31:26.600 but the first time that I said to you, let's do this podcast.

01:31:31.900 And you were like, okay, let's do it.

01:31:33.200 And I said, okay, cool, I've got some contacts that I'll get some people on.

01:31:37.240 And then I came in and I was like, okay, I've got Pippa Malmgren, who's a former presidential advisor to you as president. 0.99

01:31:44.740 And you looked at me, I thought your ass was going to fall out. 0.99

01:31:47.820 Like you were terrified. 1.00

01:31:48.820 Yeah.

01:31:49.140 But you've stepped up so much and you've grown so much.

01:31:53.380 We all have, of course.

01:31:54.860 But for you especially, I think coming from a pure comedy background, this was a big shift.

01:31:59.960 And, you know, doing the admin that comes with trigonometry was a challenge for you.

01:32:05.540 And you've really done incredibly well, even though it wasn't always easy for you, you know.

01:32:11.820 And likewise, I mean, think about, like, this studio being built.

01:32:17.320 Anton, who is our producer, he came, he joined Trigonometry to edit the audio and the video, right?

01:32:23.440 And he basically has just overseen construction of a tens of thousands of pounds project by himself in the middle of dealing with you and I having COVID and him having, he had flu and all this other shit.

01:32:39.420 And he's just completed this.

01:32:40.880 And we've got, you know, Elliot, who's our intern, barely gets any money.

01:32:44.600 And he's created these amazing vlogs and he's helping Anton and Sophie and our other video, I don't know if she wants to be named.

01:32:51.200 And they've stepped up their game in terms of the content that we put out.

01:32:54.460 And Harmon is doing a great job.

01:32:56.380 And, you know, Sean, our image, like, everyone is really working their asses off to make the show what it is.

01:33:03.560 And we've got other people who are going to be hopefully joining, you know, helping us improve other bits.

01:33:08.720 And that's what I've realized for me is I've always been a lone wolf in my life.

01:33:14.880 But working with you and working with our team has shown me you can be a lone wolf.

01:33:19.240 I'm good at what I do.

01:33:20.300 I could, if I wanted to, you know, if we could pack trigonometry and I could go and write and do whatever, I'd be fine.

01:33:27.640 But if you wanted to create something actually meaningful, you need to do it with other people.

01:33:32.660 Absolutely.

01:33:33.580 It's the old lesson.

01:33:35.040 It's, you need the band.

01:33:37.700 You need the band.

01:33:38.880 Yeah.

01:33:39.480 You know, that's what it is.

01:33:41.200 And we're the band.

01:33:42.180 We've got a great band here.

01:33:43.320 And we've got a great band.

01:33:44.240 So, thank you for watching.

01:33:47.600 Thank you for listening.

01:33:49.140 Thank you for taking part.

01:33:50.700 Thank you for sending super chats.

01:33:53.400 Thank you for supporting us.

01:33:55.540 We couldn't have done it without you.

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TRIGGERnometry - January 02, 2023

The Truth About TRIGGERnometry Part 3

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Summary

Transcript