TRIGGERnometry - January 10, 2022


The ＂We Had COVID＂ Episode


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour

Words per Minute

188.8966

Word Count

11,522

Sentence Count

446

Misogynist Sentences

8

Hate Speech Sentences

22


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.160 I took a test, a lateral flow, and it was positive.
00:00:04.740 And then I took my temperature, it was slightly raised, it was a temperature of 100.
00:00:10.440 But I thought, you know what, I'm fine, I'll be alright.
00:00:14.320 Went to bed, woke up the next day, I was not fucking fine, mate.
00:00:24.460 Hello and welcome to a special episode of Trigonometry.
00:00:28.320 Yes, indeed. Welcome back. It's been a while since we recorded one of these
00:00:32.480 and we are going to get into the reason why that was,
00:00:35.520 which is, of course, that we just both had COVID, didn't we, Francis?
00:00:38.700 We did. It was exciting times.
00:00:40.820 Not really.
00:00:41.440 No, it wasn't, actually.
00:00:42.940 It wasn't great times. But let's start with how we got it, we think.
00:00:46.720 Yeah, we did. We attended that sex party.
00:00:49.260 Yeah, which was great, but that's nothing to do with COVID.
00:00:52.120 No, but seriously, we did our brilliant live show,
00:00:54.860 the last live show of 2021 with Aisha Akanbi.
00:00:58.320 which I thoroughly enjoyed.
00:01:00.280 It was really great.
00:01:01.940 And then we hugged and kissed and fucking took pictures.
00:01:05.920 Consensually.
00:01:06.480 Consensually.
00:01:07.520 Mate, you specifying that makes that even worse.
00:01:10.620 Mate, we're comedians.
00:01:12.240 We need to specify that.
00:01:13.320 We took pictures.
00:01:14.180 We're not left-wing comedians, so it's different.
00:01:16.220 But we took pictures with about 200 people,
00:01:18.900 probably more than that.
00:01:20.720 Then we hung around for a bit, etc.
00:01:23.600 And then we came back to the studio
00:01:25.680 and we had a few friends around,
00:01:27.080 literally maybe five or six other people, and had a bit of a party to celebrate our last live show
00:01:32.040 of the year, which is where I think we got COVID. Indeed. So what happened, and I'll do my timeline
00:01:38.620 and then you do yours. So I was, I remember in the evening feeling a little bit, starting to feel a
00:01:46.280 bit ropey, but all right. Woke up the next day, felt okay, went to a few places, did a few things,
00:01:53.880 and by the evening, I was starting to feel really rough, really bad.
00:01:59.040 So what did you do?
00:01:59.840 You went to see a comedy show.
00:02:01.120 Yeah, I did and spread it to everybody.
00:02:03.400 No, I didn't think, I just thought at the time
00:02:07.000 that I just felt a little bit under the weather and a little bit tired.
00:02:10.680 To be fair, we haven't had a holiday for ages.
00:02:13.520 We've been flat out.
00:02:14.620 We worked hard all year.
00:02:16.080 It would not be unusual for you to be a bit run down.
00:02:18.520 Yeah, so that's all I felt.
00:02:19.980 I felt a bit run down.
00:02:20.920 and then I went to see the comedy show came back made me feel worse which is what comedy does to
00:02:26.440 me now and then I went back to my girlfriend's house and then I took I took a test a lateral
00:02:34.160 flow and it was positive and then I did I took my temperature it was slightly raised it was a
00:02:41.240 temperature of 100 and then but I thought you know what I'm fine I'll be all right went to bed
00:02:47.440 Woke up the next day
00:02:49.020 I was not fucking fine mate
00:02:50.860 I was absolutely done in
00:02:54.000 Temperature of 104 degrees
00:02:56.700 The bed was covered in sweat
00:02:59.640 Not in a good way
00:03:00.680 And I remember like
00:03:02.300 What's bed covered in sweat in a good way?
00:03:06.220 You know when you
00:03:06.740 Mate I'm physically fit
00:03:09.360 I don't sweat that much
00:03:10.560 Even when I'm having a good time
00:03:11.720 Well I'm not
00:03:12.040 So anyway
00:03:12.620 So anyway
00:03:16.680 And then I remember we were messaging on our group, on the WhatsApp.
00:03:21.020 And you saying, right, well, we've got to have a contingency plan, obviously.
00:03:24.980 So we're going to have a meeting.
00:03:26.220 Can you join the meeting?
00:03:27.340 And I felt terrible.
00:03:28.440 No, I didn't say, can you?
00:03:29.540 I said, are you up for something like that?
00:03:32.080 I wasn't trying to force you to join it.
00:03:33.720 I was just one finding.
00:03:34.460 No, no, no, absolutely you were.
00:03:36.120 And I felt terrible because I was just in no way able to join in any type of meeting.
00:03:41.840 and what I didn't expect from COVID
00:03:45.120 is for it to knock me as it did
00:03:48.040 and I was completely out of action
00:03:49.680 for a week done
00:03:51.400 well we should say
00:03:52.660 we're recording this on the 2nd of January
00:03:54.800 we caught COVID on the 11th of December
00:03:57.980 so it's now been over three weeks
00:03:59.460 and I would say
00:04:00.200 we're very close to being fully recovered now
00:04:02.880 but even so
00:04:04.340 I haven't done any vigorous exercise yet
00:04:06.360 I still have a bit of a lingering cough
00:04:09.240 even though I'm not infectious
00:04:10.220 and negative for blah blah blah
00:04:11.740 so it took us over three weeks to recover and we'll maybe talk once once you've given the
00:04:18.440 timeline about what it was like as well yeah so the first second day i was really ill really
00:04:24.640 really really sick um and i i just could i couldn't i i just couldn't move i couldn't move
00:04:31.760 the only thing i could do was go to loo come back drink water i didn't have anything to eat
00:04:36.980 nothing. Wednesday, again, pretty much the same. And then I came back here. And from then on in,
00:04:46.520 it was a gradual process of getting better, but it took a long time. And one thing that
00:04:51.620 I was quite shocked about is that I didn't have a desire to eat for about two weeks.
00:04:58.240 No, that is shocking.
00:05:00.120 I remember I bought a lovely dishewn for me and Anton. Anton very much enjoyed it. I picked out
00:05:05.360 the prawns out my prawn curry and that was it and what were some of your your symptoms i mean
00:05:10.640 what we i mean here we go so we had a temperature of 104 my digestive system was completely done in
00:05:17.120 i think that's as far as we need to take that i was i had a really bad cough that at one point i
00:05:23.300 was coughing up blood and i called up 111 and they assuaged my fears by going just so you know mr
00:05:30.240 Foster, one of the very rare symptoms of COVID is blood clots on the lungs. So you coughing up
00:05:37.280 blood might be a sign that you've got a blood clot on the lungs. So you're going to have to go
00:05:41.220 to A&E. I actually do think that's unlikely because a blood clot would be in a blood vessel.
00:05:46.820 Yeah. So I'm not sure that that makes sense. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not a medical expert, but
00:05:51.120 I mean, coughing up blood is not a good thing to have. No, it's not even the fact that you do it.
00:05:55.440 It's just that you look down at the seat, you go,
00:05:57.720 yeah, I am not in good shape.
00:05:59.540 Yeah.
00:05:59.980 And then I said to Anton, I said,
00:06:01.420 we're going to have to go to A&E.
00:06:02.820 Anton went, no problem, I'll get a zip car.
00:06:05.920 Turns up, outside the flat, it's a van.
00:06:09.060 So literally...
00:06:09.460 Mate, if it was me, I'd put you in the fucking boot.
00:06:12.300 So literally, he was in the front
00:06:14.020 and I was in the back of the van getting knocked about like that.
00:06:17.300 Well, that's how it should have been.
00:06:18.240 We needed to keep Anton away from it.
00:06:19.940 By the way, Anton was at the same party, didn't catch COVID.
00:06:22.540 No, that's it, mate.
00:06:24.240 Scouse jeans, they're strong.
00:06:25.440 Greek jeans, maybe.
00:06:26.560 Yeah, Greek scouse.
00:06:27.560 Well, anyway, so you had to go to hospital.
00:06:29.400 Yeah.
00:06:29.840 They gave you some antibiotics for what?
00:06:31.980 This was the thing, right?
00:06:32.980 I turned up at a hospital, right?
00:06:34.500 And then they were like, okay, I said I'm COVID positive.
00:06:36.820 I was wearing a proper mask, you know, that my friend had given me.
00:06:41.180 Leather one.
00:06:41.820 Yeah, exactly.
00:06:42.960 And then we went to another, they went, right,
00:06:45.300 you need to go to this particular part of the hospital.
00:06:47.820 So we went there.
00:06:48.900 I registered and I went, oh, where am I going to wait?
00:06:51.580 They went outside.
00:06:53.500 So like for 40 minutes, I was outside in a bleakly cold December,
00:06:58.240 just waiting to get seen by the doctor,
00:07:00.140 who when I went to see him and he went to examine me,
00:07:02.800 was fucking furious.
00:07:05.660 Why?
00:07:06.380 Because I had COVID.
00:07:08.520 Okay.
00:07:09.960 He wasn't impressed.
00:07:11.240 So if you had AIDS, you'd be fine?
00:07:12.940 Yeah, I think so.
00:07:14.340 Yeah.
00:07:15.220 Fair enough.
00:07:15.660 Because it's not an airborne virus, mate.
00:07:17.300 Okay, what if you had Ebola?
00:07:19.060 I mean, I think the protocol would have been slimed.
00:07:21.960 I mean, in fairness, he's a doctor.
00:07:23.480 He signed up to treat people who have disease.
00:07:25.800 Do you think he's going to get a bunch of fucking catwalk models
00:07:29.140 turn up in bikinis perfectly healthy just to entertain him?
00:07:32.200 It was the most perfunctory lung exam.
00:07:35.260 He just went, breathe, breathe, breathe.
00:07:37.900 You've got no blood clots.
00:07:39.940 Here's some antibiotics.
00:07:41.560 Get out.
00:07:42.120 Because he said you had a chest infection.
00:07:43.820 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:07:44.880 Okay, cool.
00:07:46.220 And you came back and you gradually kept recovering, basically.
00:07:49.300 Yeah, and I gradually kept recovering.
00:07:51.260 And I remember once saying to Anton,
00:07:53.040 Anton, do I look better?
00:07:54.140 And he just looked at me and went, no.
00:07:57.400 But yeah, but gradually and then until we are where we are.
00:08:00.760 So those were some of the symptoms.
00:08:02.980 And I think we should also talk a lot,
00:08:05.440 and I'll talk about this when I'm talking about me,
00:08:07.860 the fact that COVID,
00:08:09.980 and actually Dr. John Wyre, who we had on the show,
00:08:13.080 he said this at the time,
00:08:14.400 and I didn't really pay much attention to it,
00:08:16.060 but he did say that any disease of that nature
00:08:18.980 that causes you to lose your sense of smell or taste
00:08:21.580 means it's affecting your mind.
00:08:23.860 Well, not your mind, your brain,
00:08:25.200 and therefore your mind to some extent.
00:08:27.640 Everybody knows that one of the symptoms about COVID
00:08:30.560 is that you lose your sense of smell and taste.
00:08:34.140 That is proof that can only happen
00:08:36.460 when the virus has actually gone
00:08:37.820 into your central nervous system.
00:08:39.860 So it is there.
00:08:41.340 It has invaded the central nervous system.
00:08:43.180 What is it doing there?
00:08:44.280 Nobody knows.
00:08:45.540 Is it possible that it's actually going to have an impact
00:08:48.640 which becomes apparent 10, 20 years now.
00:08:50.860 There are other examples of infections, of virus infections,
00:08:54.320 which only showed neurological symptoms 20 years later, 30, 40 years later.
00:09:00.160 Is it possible we're going to have an epidemic of some weird neurological conditions,
00:09:04.600 even dementia or motor neurone disease or multiple sclerosis,
00:09:08.860 which was actually triggered by minor infections, which people didn't even notice?
00:09:14.840 So I think you were very anxious as well.
00:09:18.200 which to be fair you're naturally you lean that way it's not a thing that i have i'm more
00:09:24.700 sort of irritable and impatient uh which amplified massively for me uh but for you anxiety was a
00:09:31.680 thing that i had a panic attack there was one particular day where like i was just i remember
00:09:36.880 just going into the just going into my bathroom and just feeling a cold sweat come over me
00:09:43.040 just a cold sweat there's a lot about sweating in this episode guys no but but the reason i bring it
00:09:48.600 up is i think people might well you know people have panic attacks yeah irrespective of covid or
00:09:53.160 whatever but i think my experience and having observed other people around me and you and
00:09:59.100 others in terms of how covid affects people mentally yeah is it seems to amplify at least
00:10:04.960 for some people their pre-existing issues what i'm trying to get at is you would not have had
00:10:11.460 a panic attack if this had been a cold probably so it wasn't like you were scared about covid
00:10:17.980 because you'd read something in the newspaper it was more like physically it was making you anxious
00:10:23.000 it was by fucking with your brain it was making me anxious by fucking with brain and this is the
00:10:27.220 thing that people don't talk enough about it's the isolationary aspect of it that really gets you
00:10:32.960 that does you in yeah after about six or seven days and you're starting to feel better but you
00:10:37.900 can't see anyone you can't talk to anyone you can't socialize it's really tough really really
00:10:44.940 really tough well I and this is another thing so I caught uh I caught it probably at the same time
00:10:51.260 as you and I did the lateral flow when you did yours but I had no symptoms at this point and
00:10:55.560 mine was negative and I was like okay so I probably would have been around the virus blah blah blah
00:11:01.640 so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna do all the right things I'm gonna you know drink my tea with
00:11:07.620 lemon and honey and go to bed early and get some rest and drink plenty of fluids. And I went to bed
00:11:13.520 and I wake up the next day and I felt absolutely fine. So I was like, okay, cool. I've beaten this
00:11:19.380 COVID that I may or may not have had. Great. Time to, you know, get, because I'm an active person.
00:11:24.760 I like to do things. So I went out and I did lots of stuff. I did some shopping for Christmas. I
00:11:29.980 went and got a Christmas tree. I did a bunch of different things. And that was not a good idea
00:11:35.960 because by the evening, I had a fever.
00:11:38.760 And at this point, I think it was sort of like
00:11:41.560 I defeated it initially,
00:11:44.340 but then I did too much stuff
00:11:45.800 because I did have the sense that I should just rest.
00:11:48.560 And then by the evening, I had a bit of a fever
00:11:51.400 and instead of like taking more fluids and going to bed,
00:11:54.540 I was just like, oh, you know, I've got stuff to do.
00:11:57.540 So I did some work stuff.
00:11:58.840 I stayed up until like two in the morning
00:12:00.360 doing things, et cetera, which I sometimes do.
00:12:02.920 And then I woke up the next day
00:12:04.080 and I was properly ill as well.
00:12:05.960 And I didn't have a fever quite as high as yours, but basically for the next three days,
00:12:10.520 I had a fever and the only thing that I could do is be in bed and drink liquids and that was it.
00:12:17.240 And after three days, I started feeling better. I still had a bit of a fever, but I was much
00:12:22.920 better. I was able to get up and walk around. So idiot that I am, I started doing stuff again.
00:12:29.340 I started, you know, getting up, playing games. I wasn't doing that much work, but I was doing a
00:12:35.100 little bit. And that was a big mistake because trying to work through having this disease
00:12:43.140 really didn't go well for me. And I know anecdotally of many other people who did the
00:12:48.320 same. There are MMA fighters who are super fit, but because they tried to fight through it instead
00:12:52.740 of getting rest, they had it much worse. And that's what happened to me. So I had it quite
00:12:57.300 badly, but not particularly badly for a few days. Then I started to recover and I started doing
00:13:03.080 stuff and then after about two or three days of oh I can just carry on with my life I then felt
00:13:09.820 really bad again and I started to notice a lot of physical and mental symptoms that I was just
00:13:16.480 observing that were quite weird so I am normally someone who likes the space to be quite warm like
00:13:23.260 we joke about in the studio I'm always hanging out by the radiator I actually couldn't really
00:13:28.380 feel cold that much at all in a way that was not normal for me, but I physically could not stand to
00:13:35.660 be in any space where there was a draft. So obviously I was trying to keep the space ventilated
00:13:40.600 and whatever, but the moment my wife opened the window somewhere in the flat, I would literally
00:13:45.260 feel like I'm about to die. Just a horrible physical feeling. Another thing, obviously my
00:13:50.900 wife being pregnant, I said to her from day one, you've got to stay away from me. I know you'll
00:13:54.820 you'll be bringing me stuff and you're worried about me, whatever, but you got to stay away from
00:13:58.940 me. And because of that, that isolation aspect that you talk about, I remember one time she
00:14:06.920 could see that I was really not having a good time. And she just like came and sort of threw
00:14:12.200 a semi-closed door, like touched me on the back. And I nearly burst out crying, which is very
00:14:18.600 unusual for me because of that lack of physical contact. But I don't think it's just the lack of
00:14:24.800 physical contact i think mentally there's something about this disease that makes you feel very alone
00:14:29.480 and i don't know what it is it could be that you know we've we've whipped up a frenzy around how
00:14:36.040 you mustn't be around people and whatever uh or it could be just that that's what it does
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00:15:56.220 but mentally as well see i've still got a little bit of a lingering cough
00:16:01.380 i noticed that i've done a lot of personal development stuff i've really learned to
00:16:08.360 understand my own mind inside out and one of the things that people always teach you about how to
00:16:14.640 manage your own mental well-being is that you've got to learn to understand that your mind is not
00:16:20.000 you so when you experience an emotion you you've got to realize that there's someone else that's
00:16:26.820 observing that experience happening and so when I see myself reacting in ways that are unnatural
00:16:33.280 I don't go this is me I am scared I go oh that's interesting I'm I'm there's the feeling of fear
00:16:40.900 or the feeling of whatever and I started to notice that um my emotions were very different
00:16:49.140 to my normal self so in addition to amplifying my irritability and the fact that I can get angry
00:16:55.040 about stuff that's not worth getting angry about and stuff like that I also noticed that I felt
00:17:00.860 very emotional you know I was drawn to watching movies that were very sad yeah like all of that
00:17:08.400 stuff which is very unusual for me I normally really don't care about it so mentally it was
00:17:14.040 having an effect as well i find that very interesting that you said that that it exacerbates
00:17:19.820 the parts of your you the part of the parts of your mental condition which are not as strong
00:17:26.360 i know people who have depression covid exacerbated their depression with me it's anxiety
00:17:32.720 it absolutely exacerbated it and and and like we said before the fact that you are on your own
00:17:40.500 all the time i've got no problem with being on my own you know a day on my own great you get to do
00:17:45.240 stuff you get to whatever you get to sort your life out but 10 days on your own after about the
00:17:51.420 fifth or sixth day it starts to become wearing well if you think about it i mean putting people
00:17:56.800 in isolation is a form of torture yeah well well known and well practiced but but like i say i don't
00:18:02.020 think it's just that yeah if you were healthy you could manage five or six days on your own yeah
00:18:06.440 and it'd be fine yeah and also you'd be able to go out and do stuff and also the other mental
00:18:12.000 thing that i noticed is once uh i'd got to a point where i i want so i tested negative initially
00:18:19.520 then the next day when i'd had symptoms i tested positive and then i did a pcr test that i ordered
00:18:24.780 that didn't arrive for about three or four days god bless the government and then i didn't really
00:18:29.460 want to go out for a few days because i wasn't feeling well but eventually probably about eight
00:18:34.480 or nine days after I first caught the disease
00:18:37.760 and got the symptoms,
00:18:39.160 I went out because you're allowed to go
00:18:40.880 to the post office to post it.
00:18:42.920 And I remember walking out
00:18:44.440 and I was looking at people
00:18:46.320 and you had the exact same experience
00:18:48.920 the first time you went out
00:18:50.060 and I nearly burst into tears
00:18:52.100 because I was like,
00:18:53.040 oh, there's a world of healthy people.
00:18:56.040 That's how it felt.
00:18:57.060 Yeah.
00:18:57.580 I remember just walking along the river near our flat
00:19:00.440 and just looking out across the river
00:19:03.140 and just being awestruck because all I had known is the confines of the flat and bless Anton who
00:19:11.860 looked after me and you know and got me food and all the rest of it but I remember him saying to
00:19:17.600 me you can be in the flat it's okay we you can just sit at one end just open the window yeah and
00:19:24.140 then you can sit and the ability just to be able to sit and if even if he was working on an episode
00:19:30.920 of doing something but knowing there was another human being in the room I mean it made it so much
00:19:38.080 more bearable yeah now the other thing about it I find very odd for me it's extremely unusual is
00:19:44.580 we had uh some of our staff getting in touch asking questions what do we do about this what
00:19:49.560 do we do about that and I literally for me this is unheard of because I think it's fair to say
00:19:54.840 that I'm sort of like the big picture part yeah yeah of course and I manage all of that yeah and
00:19:59.920 i love doing it i love working with our team i love going we need to do this we need to do that
00:20:04.280 let's let's work it out and people were contacting me and i literally had to just say
00:20:08.520 guys i'm ill i can't do like you're just gonna have to wait or or resolve this yourself that
00:20:14.880 to me was shocking because that's not how i am yeah i'm never like that yeah but but that's how
00:20:19.880 it was now i should say what before we go on as well like i know what we're describing sounds bad
00:20:26.840 and that's because it was very unpleasant.
00:20:29.720 I have to this day, I used to say this
00:20:31.820 before we caught COVID a second time,
00:20:33.540 I'll say it again, I have had flu worse than this.
00:20:36.200 Yeah.
00:20:36.720 I have.
00:20:37.740 But my point is, one of the realizations for me
00:20:40.740 was that when people talk about even Omicron,
00:20:45.060 which I still suspect is the variant that we had,
00:20:47.920 being mild, what they mean is
00:20:50.620 you didn't have to go to hospital and stay in hospital.
00:20:53.640 It does not necessarily mean
00:20:55.240 you're going to have an easy time of it now i never thought it was you know going to kill us
00:21:00.540 or anything like that but it was unpleasant for sure it was very very very unpleasant and
00:21:05.200 i i think the people who have just said you know we hear this word mild and we inevitably think oh
00:21:12.300 headache and a runny nose yeah but medically mild essentially it's like you said you don't end up in
00:21:18.180 hospital but that doesn't mean that it's not desperately unpleasant and also as well we
00:21:24.140 trivialize flu we go it's a bit of flu flu I've had mates who've been hospitalized for flu who
00:21:29.540 actually very fit healthy people and then caught COVID the next year and didn't have a problem
00:21:33.600 yeah and you know we're fine well you know they're still rough but they were fine with it yeah so I
00:21:39.320 think that we trivialize both flu and COVID Brett once I made this very point if you remember yeah
00:21:45.000 we trivialize both of these illnesses and go oh it's flu it's what they're both you know quite
00:21:50.020 serious if you don't treat them well or you're you're vulnerable in some way to them yes i agree
00:21:55.780 however the reason i think we do that is we accept that it's part of life yeah we accept that you are
00:22:01.860 throughout the course of your life going to get flu probably 10 15 20 30 times yeah it's just
00:22:08.280 going to happen yeah um and we'll talk more about the the conclusions that we draw from it but one
00:22:14.140 of them for me particularly seeing how infectious omicron has been because when we had it like
00:22:19.720 everyone had it like everyone i knew had it like probably 30 or 40 people that i personally know
00:22:28.400 including former guests and people friends and whatever all had it yeah so one of the conclusions
00:22:33.960 for me is look the reality is everyone's gonna this there is a pandemic of a highly contagious
00:22:42.240 disease airborne disease airborne disease everyone's going to get it yeah so you the the one of the
00:22:48.940 conclusions i think we all reached here is we got to make sure that our physical and mental health
00:22:54.220 is absolutely at its peak and we've got to protect ourselves in that way because i don't think
00:23:01.220 no amount of you know being careful wearing a mask that most of which don't even work it's so
00:23:10.100 social whatever like you're going to live your life yeah and you're probably going to catch it
00:23:14.120 exactly and this idea of zero covid for me it's it's ridiculous because you're trying to deny a
00:23:21.380 biological fact you can't stop the spread of an airborne virus you you might remember at the start
00:23:27.960 of this whole thing the whole purpose of lockdown wasn't to stop it it was to slow the spread
00:23:33.380 because everybody knows you can't stop it well right the idea was you want to spread out yeah
00:23:38.820 the disease over time but the same number of people are still going to catch it and that to
00:23:43.960 me is probably what is happening and will happen yeah and this idea that you know we're going to
00:23:49.180 have you know not that we adopt this policy adopted this policy in this country but the idea
00:23:54.080 like we've seen it in new zealand or australia zero covid i'm sorry it's for the birds it's it's
00:23:59.400 just not going to happen it's it's it's an impossibility yeah especially in this globalized
00:24:04.800 world of us what you think you're going to stop an airborne virus from coming in yeah and look at
00:24:09.700 the i mean we'll talk about the restrictions but look at what's happening in europe right now they've
00:24:13.700 got vaccine passports restrictions stay at home vaccinated fucking going and what you know i
00:24:20.460 nearly said going in the camps but pretty much yeah right they've got more cases and more disease
00:24:24.900 and more deaths than we do in this country you know so just look at wales they're locking
00:24:29.980 everything down and they had vax passports yeah yeah so in many ways i'm sure people will want to
00:24:35.360 know our opinion my opinion about all of the authoritarianism that covid has engendered hasn't
00:24:40.760 changed one bit if anything like i say i think everyone's going to get it so the the the priority
00:24:47.220 for me is to protect yourself by being in peak physical condition peak mental condition for a
00:24:53.080 lot of people that will also mean being vaccinated because there are people who are so vulnerable
00:24:56.980 to this disease, that that was a thing for them.
00:25:00.220 And look, I've always been very much
00:25:04.060 sort of like natural immunity,
00:25:05.800 but this has shown me you can catch COVID twice,
00:25:08.860 particularly after you had it a long time ago.
00:25:12.120 We had it first time in February 2020.
00:25:15.080 So to me, I think I would definitely admit
00:25:21.060 that I was very cavalier about the idea of natural immunity.
00:25:24.420 if you're going to rely on that which from now on that's obviously a factor right you have to
00:25:30.240 measure your antibody levels regularly which i think joe rogan does for example right he's not
00:25:34.080 just like well i had covid that's it he's measuring his antibodies and his team's antibodies and that's
00:25:39.860 what you've got to do you can't just be like well i had covid three years ago i'm going to be fine
00:25:43.980 because these variants also evade the immunity right the other thing i learned as well is
00:25:51.180 in order to get a very good uh natural immunity you have to have had it badly and you sort of
00:25:59.160 did have it quite badly the first time but I had it very mildly the first time so you probably had
00:26:04.320 better natural immunity and it still didn't help it still didn't help because after I think natural
00:26:09.220 immunity on average lasts around six months yeah so by the time you know the new variants coming
00:26:14.520 until there's a new variant yeah or until there's a new variant and there's nothing you can do but
00:26:18.560 for me when it comes to vaccinations I have made a decision that I'm going to get vaccinated
00:26:23.700 probably in around three months when my natural immunity starts to fade and like I said I'll be
00:26:29.740 doing the you know the antibody test that's something I need to get on top of but I will
00:26:33.820 be getting vaccinated because for a couple of reasons number one I can't be getting ill like
00:26:38.240 that again I can't it's you know because not only does it have an impact on you it has an impact on
00:26:43.960 everyone around you the fact the fact that I can't I couldn't work you know it's it's it's not
00:26:50.320 fine obviously but if you're employed there's less it's easier there's less of a burden etc etc
00:26:58.100 but you know we're running a business I can't be on my ass like I was for 10 days well yeah we were
00:27:05.060 off work for three weeks it wasn't 10 days it was three weeks we didn't work for three weeks and
00:27:09.180 that was obviously bad however i would say to you and look i i i am going to keep this whole thing
00:27:15.320 under review we we know i mean anton made this point the other day we know a lot of people who
00:27:20.240 were vaccinated even triple vaccinated younger than us probably healthier than us or maybe you
00:27:25.640 know whatever who had it had it and they had it just as bad but statistically speaking the statistics
00:27:32.980 say you're less likely to have a serious illness and i did see a lot of people who were vaccinated
00:27:38.500 around me have a much less serious illness as well.
00:27:42.780 So I think statistically speaking, that's fine.
00:27:47.740 I don't think I am going to get vaccinated.
00:27:51.020 I certainly haven't made that decision.
00:27:53.860 For me, I'm going to monitor my antibody levels
00:27:56.680 and I'm also going to keep an eye on whatever else is going on.
00:27:59.660 The reason that I am thinking about getting vaccinated
00:28:03.260 is your natural immunity can't be boosted.
00:28:06.140 So when it wanes, the only way you can boost it is by getting COVID again.
00:28:10.800 Whereas at least with vaccines, it seems like if you could have the natural immunity in a few months,
00:28:17.080 you get vaccinated, you just take one dose, that boosts it, and then you can boost it again whenever you need.
00:28:23.500 And also they're putting out vaccines now that are using more conventional technology as opposed to the mRNA one.
00:28:31.000 So that would be the thing that I'd be interested in doing.
00:28:35.160 because I am concerned and I think it's objectively true
00:28:40.280 that we're not quite being told the truth
00:28:43.440 about how safe the mRNA vaccines are.
00:28:47.480 I'm not saying I know how safe they are.
00:28:49.480 I'm just saying we're not quite being told the truth.
00:28:51.920 You know, the myocarditis thing is not being properly discussed
00:28:54.920 and that's a concern.
00:28:57.180 And also, you know, I got a message the other day on Twitter
00:29:00.180 from somebody who said, I hope you're recovering.
00:29:03.140 I'm sorry I had COVID,
00:29:03.900 But please consider I'm a scientist, I got vaccinated, and now I have a seizure, a mini seizure, every three minutes.
00:29:14.120 Like that, every three minutes, right?
00:29:17.160 So to me, which of those two would I rather have?
00:29:20.000 COVID again the way that I had it or have that?
00:29:24.160 That's my concern.
00:29:25.240 Now, statistically speaking, far less likely, but I'd much rather a higher risk of getting COVID badly the way I had it before than a much lower risk of something completely terrible.
00:29:40.060 There are people who've had legs amputated because of things that the vaccine has done to them, that it's been reported in the news.
00:29:47.080 So that's my concern.
00:29:48.660 So I'm going to wait.
00:29:49.420 I'm going to see what the other vaccines are,
00:29:52.000 what the safety profile for them looks like,
00:29:54.560 and I'm going to monitor my antibody levels.
00:29:56.460 Yeah.
00:29:56.980 Well, I'm probably going to get the Chinese one because that's the most...
00:30:00.140 Well, actually, the Chinese one is the one that uses
00:30:02.240 the most conventional technology.
00:30:03.700 Yeah.
00:30:04.300 It just uses a weakened version of the virus.
00:30:06.120 Noodle jab.
00:30:06.820 It's great.
00:30:07.440 The Wang jab.
00:30:08.140 Yeah, the Wang jab.
00:30:09.260 The Wang jab.
00:30:10.300 And I think Sputnik might as well.
00:30:11.740 I'm not sure.
00:30:12.160 But like I said, the reason that I'm going to do it is purely for myself
00:30:18.260 because it's just not practical to be out of action for that long.
00:30:24.180 It just isn't.
00:30:25.320 What I'm saying to you is you could still be out of action for that long.
00:30:28.520 And also, unfortunately, getting vaccinated involves a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny,
00:30:34.200 but nonetheless risk of actual serious adverse effects.
00:30:37.720 So that's what I'm weighing up.
00:30:39.520 And everybody, like we always say on the show,
00:30:42.160 Everybody's got to make their own decision about it.
00:30:45.060 Of course, of course.
00:30:46.380 But, you know, and we've touched on it
00:30:49.300 and we're going to touch on it again.
00:30:50.920 The authoritarian stuff.
00:30:52.560 Yeah.
00:30:53.680 I'll never be on board with that.
00:30:55.520 It always, always should be your body, your choice.
00:31:00.040 You analyse the risks, you read up,
00:31:02.320 and then you make a decision.
00:31:04.020 And then after that, it's up to you.
00:31:05.660 Well, see, this is the other thing
00:31:06.760 that I would confess to realising
00:31:09.340 is I do think that all of us now operate within a bit of a bubble.
00:31:15.220 So, for example, when I was reading previously to Catching COVID Again
00:31:19.980 about natural immunity, there are a lot of studies
00:31:23.500 that show natural immunity is better.
00:31:25.680 32 times is the one I read.
00:31:27.280 I mean, I don't know that it's 32 times.
00:31:29.640 But there's also some studies that don't show that.
00:31:32.300 And they're not all quite as good as the ones that blah, blah, blah.
00:31:36.180 But basically, the comprehensive analysis is that the vaccine is, my understanding, Chris Takis wrote about this recently, the vaccine is much better at preventing serious illness, but they both are similarly effective at preventing you from catching COVID.
00:31:53.460 So if you have natural immunity, you're between 80% to 95% protected.
00:31:59.400 And it's similar with the vaccine.
00:32:02.260 But apparently, according to this, you're less likely to have a serious illness.
00:32:08.140 Now, I wasn't quite aware of that because I was like,
00:32:12.320 well, there's studies that show natural immunity is better, so I'm fine.
00:32:15.980 Well, not quite.
00:32:17.200 Right. There are people who claimed, and us getting ill coincided with Peter McCullough going on Joe Rogan's show.
00:32:24.660 You can't get it twice. We've never had a single case.
00:32:26.580 But I have a friend that got it twice.
00:32:28.440 What you have is you have a friend who thinks he had it twice.
00:32:32.000 What happened is on one or more occasions, it's a false positive test or he actually had the dead virus that he's carrying forward.
00:32:41.580 Somebody in my family circles had COVID-19, for sure had it, got sick.
00:32:46.400 That person tested positive intermittently 17 times.
00:32:50.760 Yeah, but this wasn't just a test positive.
00:32:52.860 He got sick, he recovered, and then about seven, eight months later, he got sick again,
00:32:59.060 tested positive again, and had a much milder case of it, but still got COVID twice.
00:33:04.720 Yeah, it wasn't a second case.
00:33:05.760 This is what's happened.
00:33:06.780 For sure?
00:33:07.300 Yeah.
00:33:07.520 There's about 100 purported cases like this in the literature.
00:33:10.320 I've looked at them all.
00:33:11.800 And so when I said, well, we've caught COVID for a second time,
00:33:15.280 loads of people are like, no, it's impossible.
00:33:17.000 This guy on the podcast said it.
00:33:18.680 And I was like, well, I have COVID for a second time, right?
00:33:23.740 Francis has COVID for a second time.
00:33:25.640 We know we had COVID the first time
00:33:27.480 because we caught it off a guy
00:33:28.720 who had just come back from China in February 2020.
00:33:31.140 And then when he went to America and got tested
00:33:34.060 and he was COVID positive, right?
00:33:35.980 So we know we had it twice.
00:33:38.660 but because we all live in this bubble where we we want to believe certain things more than others
00:33:44.860 i think most of us now we don't really follow the evidence enough and we follow our own biases
00:33:52.240 too much and i and i did start to see that in how people were responding even people who know and
00:33:57.540 trust me and i was like guys i do have it for a second time you like if you've trusted me for the
00:34:03.040 last three years you can kind of know i'm not making it up but a lot of people were you know
00:34:07.860 they don't want it to be true and i get it because here's the truth francis we're all very
00:34:14.440 fucking tired of this shit yeah we're all are we want it to end everyone whether you're vaccinated
00:34:20.300 or not vaccinated or whatever we all want the shit to end and that's why people attach
00:34:26.140 their emotion of i just wanted to stop to various things so people who are pro-vaccine
00:34:33.720 attach their desire for things to stop to the fact that not enough people are vaccinated,
00:34:39.340 even though in this country it's like 92% of adults over 18 are vaccinated.
00:34:44.480 But they believe that, some people believe, that the reason COVID goes on is there are too many
00:34:50.640 unvaccinated people, which is bullshit, complete bullshit. And there are also people who are
00:34:54.900 leaning towards vaccine hesitancy or being anti-vax. They don't want to believe anything
00:34:59.160 about COVID. They don't even want to believe it exists because they just want this shit to end.
00:35:03.720 And I understand that. I do.
00:35:05.740 Yeah, and it's such a good point because we're all tired of this.
00:35:11.160 And I use the word tired in its most accurate sense.
00:35:17.020 We're just tired. It's been two fucking years of constantly thinking about this,
00:35:23.160 of it dominating the news, of it disrupting our lives,
00:35:27.360 of us not being able to plan, of us feeling that the world is changing.
00:35:31.440 and we're looking at a world that is unrecognisable
00:35:35.700 to the one that we used to know two short years ago.
00:35:40.180 And so you look for anything to confirm your bias.
00:35:44.380 But the reality is, I remember I was talking to a friend about this
00:35:49.160 at the very start of the pandemic and he made this point
00:35:51.320 and it's such a good point.
00:35:52.240 He went, just as we live in a post-AIDS world,
00:35:55.580 we're going to live in a post-COVID world.
00:35:57.620 And unfortunately, we're going to have to accept that.
00:35:59.880 There's always going to be a new variant.
00:36:01.440 there's always going to be you know people getting sick there's it's something that the
00:36:07.660 nhs is going to have to cope with i don't know how it's going to cope with it but it's going to
00:36:11.280 have to we're now living in a post-covid world and the sooner we come to accept i don't know about
00:36:16.900 that i don't know that we live in a post-covid world i think we're still in the pandemic yeah
00:36:22.480 in the crutches yeah yeah okay but eventually we're going to have to accept that this is part
00:36:27.760 of our world. And we need to. The reason I say we're not in a post-COVID world, Francis, is I've
00:36:32.740 been talking to a lot of scientists because I've had the time. This is the other thing I realized
00:36:36.560 is no one has time to research things properly. I certainly didn't. So we go with headlines or
00:36:41.480 newspaper articles when you actually, you have to do research. You have to look at studies. You
00:36:45.140 have to talk to people who understand what's going on. So I've been talking to scientists
00:36:49.080 and one of the things that people have said to me, there's a Russian-Canadian scientist called
00:36:54.740 Yuri Dagan, who was one of the originators of the lab leak hypothesis,
00:36:59.020 the idea that the OG COVID, the original COVID,
00:37:02.460 came from a lab in Wuhan.
00:37:04.620 Was that his rap name, the OG COVID?
00:37:06.280 The OG COVID, the gangster.
00:37:09.280 But he says, I'm not saying it's true, I'm not saying I know,
00:37:14.940 I don't have any way of evaluating it,
00:37:16.540 but there is some evidence genetically
00:37:18.360 that Omicron transitioned through mice somehow.
00:37:23.000 Okay.
00:37:23.480 And what that likely means is that Omicron was made in a lab.
00:37:28.680 Quite possibly in a lab in South Africa.
00:37:32.880 People, please stop fucking making viruses in labs.
00:37:36.820 I did suggest this to him.
00:37:38.160 He's very much on board, but he's not the one in charge, Francis.
00:37:41.520 But basically what people are saying is there are dozens of these labs
00:37:45.820 where these fucking idiots are doing gain-of-function research.
00:37:49.380 Gain-of-function research being you take a virus,
00:37:51.340 you play around with it until a virus that only affects bats
00:37:54.540 suddenly can infect humans now.
00:37:56.200 That's good.
00:37:57.020 Right.
00:37:57.580 So to suggest that this is over
00:38:00.520 or we are about to live in a post-COVID world
00:38:03.040 is, I think, a possible scenario.
00:38:06.380 But I think another scenario is that there are other variants
00:38:09.760 that leak out of other labs
00:38:11.000 or other variants that develop naturally through mutation.
00:38:15.320 And it's true that over time,
00:38:19.140 And generally the trend tends to be
00:38:20.880 that viruses become more contagious and less lethal.
00:38:24.480 But it doesn't have to.
00:38:27.440 There's no guarantee that that's going to happen.
00:38:30.580 It could be contagious and lethal for a bit
00:38:33.440 before he kills off everyone he's going to kill off
00:38:35.980 and then be replaced.
00:38:37.220 So that's my one reason
00:38:39.700 that I would still consider getting vaccinated
00:38:41.820 because you saw with people
00:38:44.320 who were able to get the third jab
00:38:46.200 and it topped up their immunity
00:38:48.000 with natural immunity, you can't do that.
00:38:50.040 So I don't think we're out of the woods
00:38:53.380 by any stretch of the imagination.
00:38:55.440 Yeah, I take your point.
00:38:56.980 But what I mean by post-COVID is inaccurate.
00:38:59.680 But what we need to do is we need to accept
00:39:01.920 that this thing is here to stay.
00:39:03.640 This idea that we're going to eradicate it,
00:39:05.800 this idea that it's not going to become, you know, endemic,
00:39:10.380 it's just ridiculous.
00:39:12.080 It's just ridiculous.
00:39:13.000 We are going to have to accept it.
00:39:14.700 We're going to have to live with it.
00:39:15.720 We need better technology in order to deal with it.
00:39:18.680 You and I have spoken about this many times.
00:39:20.760 I have no problem with having some kind of breathalyzer type test
00:39:26.300 that you do if you want to go into a restaurant or a bar or, you know, breathe into it.
00:39:31.820 If that stops someone from getting hospitalized, I've got no problem at all.
00:39:36.260 No, me neither.
00:39:37.060 It should be.
00:39:38.220 What they need to do is develop some kind of test where you just spit in the test tube
00:39:41.540 and it literally lights up red or green or something.
00:39:43.780 Yeah.
00:39:44.040 That's it.
00:39:44.400 And if that was accurate and if that was readily available
00:39:46.960 and it was cheap and you could mass produce it,
00:39:49.480 I've got no problem doing that.
00:39:50.880 I'm against the authoritarianism, but to me,
00:39:53.720 checking whether you have a disease,
00:39:56.500 I saw some people going,
00:39:58.680 oh, GB News are now testing people before putting them on the set.
00:40:04.540 I'm not doing that.
00:40:05.520 I was like, why?
00:40:06.960 Why wouldn't you make sure that you're not going to infect other people?
00:40:10.020 Because, as we know from our own experience,
00:40:12.260 asymptomatic transmission is possible.
00:40:15.160 No one at that party had COVID, visibly.
00:40:17.640 Yeah.
00:40:18.480 But pretty much everyone except Anton got infected.
00:40:21.680 Which means...
00:40:23.040 It was Anton.
00:40:23.720 Anton all along.
00:40:26.440 But, yeah.
00:40:28.300 So that's what we need to do.
00:40:30.080 We need to have better technology.
00:40:32.160 We need to...
00:40:33.000 And it's just going to become a factor in our lives.
00:40:35.280 Well, while we were ill, actually,
00:40:37.240 they approved monoclonal antibodies,
00:40:39.340 which we've known for a long time,
00:40:40.700 prevent you from getting ill if you take it in the first couple of days. The reason that they
00:40:44.460 only give it to super vulnerable people in the UK is it's expensive. It's like $2,000 for one...
00:40:51.040 I think Rogan took it, didn't he?
00:40:52.180 Yeah, Rogan took it and he didn't get ill. Dana White the same. I would have taken it if we had
00:40:55.700 access to it in the UK. We just don't have access to it. If we'd taken that, we wouldn't have got
00:41:00.160 ill, almost certainly. They've also just approved a couple of antiviral drugs that can be taken as
00:41:06.120 a cocktail to again prevent serious illness but again they're only giving it to the vulnerable
00:41:10.700 again because it's expensive now this is i think one of the reasons that they're pushing the
00:41:15.540 vaccine so hard is they claim it's cheaper i don't know whether it's true by the way there's a lot of
00:41:21.360 a lot of questions about that but apparently it's cheaper so that would make sense if you can
00:41:26.980 prevent people from getting ill with a cheaper thing it's better than from a financial perspective
00:41:33.440 anyway uh so new drugs are coming out new treatments are going to come out and this is
00:41:39.080 really maybe how the answer is going to be sure everyone's going to get it but almost no one's
00:41:44.900 going to die from it because we have ways of treating it i hope that's the path that it ends
00:41:49.420 up being because look the reality is people talk about the unvaccinated or whatever the overwhelming
00:41:56.680 majority of people who are currently unvaccinated are going to stay unvaccinated that's the reality
00:42:02.440 You're not going to change those people's minds.
00:42:04.820 And you're certainly not going to change those people's minds.
00:42:07.540 Did you see that press release from the United States government
00:42:11.760 about saying that, you know, the people who are vaccinated,
00:42:16.080 you will be fine and blah, blah, blah.
00:42:17.980 The unvaccinated, you will have a rough time.
00:42:21.720 No, it's not a rough time.
00:42:23.020 They said this new year will be a year of sickness and death.
00:42:26.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, something horrible.
00:42:28.400 And you just look at that and you go,
00:42:31.820 how is that going to win hearts and minds?
00:42:34.020 Well, it's not.
00:42:34.720 Tony Blair calling people stupid and selfish
00:42:36.780 for not getting vaccinated.
00:42:37.840 Well, they're not stupid.
00:42:38.760 They've got a different opinion.
00:42:40.040 Now, you may disagree with it,
00:42:41.380 like we disagreed with you invading Iraq, right?
00:42:44.540 Yeah.
00:42:44.780 But it doesn't mean that they're stupid, right?
00:42:47.660 And Austria is fining unvaccinated people.
00:42:51.080 All of this-
00:42:51.780 And Greece, apparently.
00:42:53.240 I abhor completely.
00:42:54.800 I mean, it's wrong.
00:42:56.660 And the point that, you know, Carissa Vélez made,
00:42:59.440 if you remember when we had her on the show,
00:43:01.000 and it's a point I reinforce in my book,
00:43:02.720 is you don't know how technology will be used later down the line.
00:43:08.460 The Dutch had a very good system of statistics.
00:43:11.300 They had a guy called Lenz who was one of the pioneers of statistics,
00:43:14.260 and he wanted to build a system that followed people from cradle to grave.
00:43:18.240 And in his census, there were a lot of questions
00:43:20.620 and there was data collection about your religious affiliation,
00:43:23.980 but also your ancestry and things like where your grandparents lived.
00:43:27.300 Now, in contrast, in France, they had made a decision since 1872
00:43:32.120 not to collect that kind of data for privacy reasons.
00:43:35.800 And so when the Nazis arrived to France and asked, you know, where are the Jews?
00:43:39.240 They said, you know, we have no idea how many Jews we have,
00:43:42.020 let alone where they live, so good luck with that.
00:43:44.720 And the Nazis had to depend on either Jewish people turning themselves in
00:43:49.140 or having neighbors turn them in, which was very inefficient.
00:43:53.180 And the result is that in the Netherlands, the Nazis found and killed 73% of the Jewish population.
00:43:58.180 And in France, 25% of the Jewish population.
00:44:01.180 And the difference is hundreds of thousands of people.
00:44:04.180 So creating vaccine passport databases and all of that stuff, you have no idea how that's going to be used.
00:44:10.180 That's why those lines must never be crossed.
00:44:12.180 But I don't mind spitting in a test tube that just gets thrown in the bin without being attached to my name before I enter a large venue.
00:44:19.180 I've got no problem with that.
00:44:21.180 In fact, while you're in the middle of this,
00:44:23.680 I don't think it's a bad idea at all.
00:44:25.240 I wish, you know, if we had something very simple,
00:44:28.500 very cheap, very easy to use at our live show, great.
00:44:33.240 If we could do that with our guests and with ourselves
00:44:36.060 to make sure that we're not passing.
00:44:37.860 We've got people coming in here in their 80s.
00:44:40.280 I don't want to give COVID to someone in their 80s.
00:44:42.680 They could die.
00:44:43.560 Yeah, exactly.
00:44:44.940 And, you know, we had people saying, you know,
00:44:47.440 there was a couple of people going,
00:44:48.600 oh do you do you agree with you know people taking my temperature before i go into a venue and i was
00:44:54.960 like yes yeah we do agree i i don't know how effective checking your temperature is you could
00:45:00.740 still have covid you can still have covid but you might have but that's why i'm saying you need good
00:45:05.420 tests not testing people's temperature but also as well if you've got a fever you shouldn't be
00:45:10.680 around people anyway i agree well i mean but but you've got to remember francis it's like
00:45:15.220 you were not feeling well
00:45:17.580 and you went to a comedy show
00:45:19.300 with 80 other people
00:45:20.740 in a tiny comedy club
00:45:22.180 because people make mistakes,
00:45:24.760 people think they don't have COVID,
00:45:26.000 they don't think they have COVID
00:45:27.620 because they don't want to think
00:45:28.620 that they have COVID.
00:45:29.780 Human beings are not necessarily
00:45:31.940 entirely consistent and logical
00:45:33.360 even with their own beliefs.
00:45:34.560 Agreed, but if I went to the venue
00:45:35.980 and they took your temperature
00:45:36.880 and go, look,
00:45:37.400 you've got your temperatures a bit high,
00:45:38.900 we're not letting you in,
00:45:39.580 I would accept that.
00:45:42.500 I would accept that
00:45:43.480 and be like,
00:45:44.020 well that's absolutely fine you know i just i don't i think the way that the germany new zealand
00:45:52.820 australia austria italy italy france france it's basically everyone yeah everybody exactly
00:46:01.240 not only yeah not only you know the authoritarian it's dangerous it's what we're doing is we're
00:46:10.300 playing with things that we should not be playing with and especially yeah when you play with things
00:46:17.660 you shouldn't yeah exactly come on man yeah yeah that's the covid particularly with when it concerns
00:46:22.860 western liberal democracies but also it doesn't work yeah it doesn't work it's discriminatory for
00:46:28.460 no good reason vaccine passports are moronic because they don't prove that you don't have
00:46:32.260 covid yeah vaccinated people can pass it on they can catch it testing checking whether someone is
00:46:37.460 vaccinated isn't ensuring that people are safe so if while there's a super contagious variant like
00:46:44.680 omicron we we have a test where you go green in yeah great great to me that makes sense i've got
00:46:53.980 absolutely no problem with that all this other authoritarian shit can get in the bin but it's
00:46:58.720 also as well is they're bringing authoritarianism through the back door like my friend went to new
00:47:02.640 York went to a conference took her temperature she was fine and then they scanned her face
00:47:11.020 yeah and she was like well hang on a second they were all don't worry about it madam you can go
00:47:15.240 through she went no why are you scanning my face you've just taken my data yeah what's going to
00:47:20.540 happen to that data absolutely it's going to get then sold on so just saying for those people who
00:47:25.040 are worried about it's like Carissa Belize said yeah they could scan your face 20 years time
00:47:28.900 you want to have life insurance and they'll go well unfortunately you've got a genetic
00:47:33.980 predisposition I don't know to MS therefore we can't we can't give you the life insurance
00:47:38.300 how do you know that absolutely absolutely so all of those doors that are being opened and
00:47:45.320 I'm glad to see people that we respect tremendously like Jordan Peterson and Douglas Murray
00:47:50.640 who I believe I don't know about Douglas I suspect he's vaccinated I don't know I don't I haven't
00:47:55.660 asked him and i don't think he's talked about it publicly but let's assume that he is jordan is
00:48:00.280 i think double vaccinated and i think there was even a point where jordan said to people just
00:48:06.180 get the damn jab or something yeah and let's get back to normal but we can all see now that the
00:48:12.180 promises that we were made about people taking the vaccine means freedom well these things don't seem
00:48:19.460 to be that correlated if you look on the continent where people are getting vaccinated just like in
00:48:24.500 the uk not quite at the same levels they're they're having all of these the all of this
00:48:30.640 authoritarianism and i think we're really in a dangerous place uh and just and i think there
00:48:37.540 will be people who who who are thinking oh you had covered badly ha ha ha well it doesn't change
00:48:43.140 my opinion of any of this other stuff it doesn't at all yeah you know uh and you've got to remember
00:48:49.080 as well like sure you can force people to do things you don't want to do and then you might
00:48:54.340 you and I might not have got ill or whatever not got ill as badly but what about all the people
00:48:58.580 who are suffering as a result of all these measures medically physically mentally financially
00:49:05.740 in every way what me not getting ill for a couple of weeks is that worth it I don't personally feel
00:49:12.160 entitled to ruin other people's lives so that I don't have a bad flu for a couple of weeks
00:49:16.040 i don't and it's also as well you look at some of these you know some of the measures that are
00:49:21.040 brought in by these european countries they're anti-scientific italy demanding you wear masks
00:49:26.980 outside when the science says that your risk of contracting covid outside a minimal 0.0 so
00:49:35.620 masks aren't going to do anything yet they insist most masks don't work yeah exactly no matter how
00:49:41.440 badly i had covid i still am able to understand the data yeah most of the cloth masks that people
00:49:46.020 wear don't work. They said this. There's this crazy woman on CNN called Leanna Wen, who's always
00:49:51.840 like more vaccine, more lockdown, more everything. She came out and said it while we were ill on CNN
00:49:58.760 that masks, cloth masks don't stop COVID. Cloth masks are not appropriate for this pandemic.
00:50:06.540 It's not appropriate for Omicron. It was not appropriate for Delta, Alpha or any of the
00:50:10.760 previous variants either because we're dealing with something that's airborne. Cloth masks don't
00:50:16.300 stop COVID, right? And I've been saying this for a long time. They don't. Now, there are some masks
00:50:21.320 that do help, N95 masks. They do work to reduce you transmitting it to other people, but also
00:50:28.220 slightly to reduce the risk of you catching it. So people need to understand the nuances of things.
00:50:35.820 And like I said, you and I were cavalier
00:50:39.300 about not understanding certain things,
00:50:42.260 not doing the research.
00:50:43.720 And I think a lot of people on all sides of the argument
00:50:46.020 are doing that, you know.
00:50:48.380 There are people who think,
00:50:50.060 someone messaged me the other day,
00:50:51.900 a friend from comedy,
00:50:53.500 who called me an anti-vaxxer, which I'm not.
00:50:56.380 I've always said vulnerable people should take the vaccine.
00:50:59.300 But also said that when I explained to him that I'm not,
00:51:03.480 and we were having the conversation,
00:51:04.700 it was like well all the people in hospital are unvaccinated well that's completely not true
00:51:10.960 right now statistically speaking the data is suggesting that you're much less likely to be
00:51:16.660 hospitalized if you're vaccinated and that's true if that's true great people should make their own
00:51:22.880 decision about that but my point is people on both sides of the argument they're not doing enough
00:51:28.380 research and i include myself on this until recently to understand what they're actually
00:51:32.560 talking about because we all just want it to be over and so we all look for a scapegoat you know
00:51:38.720 the scapegoat is China or the scapegoat is the scientist or the scapegoat is the unvaccinated
00:51:44.580 or the scapegoat is you know the great reset or whatever you know everyone wants to have
00:51:49.640 like an explanation of there's a small group of evil people who we can blame on this well
00:51:53.780 pandemics happen they've always happened throughout history usually we blame the Jews
00:51:59.260 now we've leveled up and we're blaming people who are unvaccinated people just need to take a step
00:52:05.180 back and realize all of this happens man most people are going to catch it you're not going
00:52:10.380 to get away from it protect yourself as best you can by improving your physical and mental health
00:52:15.020 if you want to get vaccinated get vaccinated that's it part of the problem as well is before
00:52:21.720 the pandemic there was this air of you know we've kind of conquered nature yeah we've conquered
00:52:30.060 nature you know we're above nature yeah and as a result of that there's this we don't have to worry
00:52:35.940 we use nature for our ends well the pandemic came along and reminded everybody you ain't in control
00:52:42.740 of shit mate yeah well I remember your dad came around here didn't he a few weeks before we got
00:52:48.120 COVID and we were talking about this and I said to him oh you know no disrespect but you're older
00:52:53.000 than us obviously and you would have lived through the Hong Kong flu that was in the UK and he was
00:52:58.720 like oh yeah I don't even remember it but it was it was it was a there was a pandemic of a airborne
00:53:06.360 virus but because we didn't feel that we could do as much people just got on with life and I remember
00:53:12.980 him saying that he took a week off school to look after my grandfather who had it yeah and that's
00:53:17.280 just what you did you just coped and you got on with it right you manned up
00:53:21.620 you man up you have a lucasade and you walk it off and three weeks later you're just fine yeah
00:53:29.400 once you've had medical intervention in your case yeah absolutely but yeah and it
00:53:36.400 what we need to do is we need and it's very difficult to say this we need to take the emotion
00:53:42.260 out of this
00:53:42.820 we need to take
00:53:44.160 the emotion out of it
00:53:44.940 and try and be
00:53:46.340 more rational
00:53:47.200 more scientific
00:53:48.340 and the government
00:53:49.640 need to take responsibility
00:53:50.880 and the media
00:53:51.520 and the media
00:53:52.140 and the way they have
00:53:53.080 ramped it up
00:53:54.040 the way they've
00:53:55.060 politicised it
00:53:56.100 the way they've
00:53:57.360 used it to
00:53:58.160 you know
00:53:58.480 get clicks
00:53:59.720 sell copy
00:54:00.880 or whatever it may be
00:54:01.860 it's unforgivable
00:54:04.080 but also
00:54:04.660 this is one of the other
00:54:05.600 things that people
00:54:06.240 you know
00:54:06.600 we put out
00:54:07.300 the thread that I wrote
00:54:09.420 earlier last year
00:54:10.620 as a video
00:54:12.260 which has now been censored by YouTube,
00:54:14.020 which have made it age-restricted,
00:54:15.480 even though there's nothing inappropriate
00:54:17.500 for people under 18.
00:54:18.720 Apart from the bouncing arses at the end
00:54:20.860 where you and the rap video.
00:54:22.020 Yeah, it's a great video.
00:54:23.320 Go check it out.
00:54:25.580 You know, one of the things that experts
00:54:29.560 and scientists and particularly governments
00:54:31.840 have done is they've lacked humility
00:54:36.320 and they have chosen the path of certainty
00:54:41.300 in order to persuade people.
00:54:44.160 But what they don't understand is
00:54:45.780 if you say to people,
00:54:47.520 this is 100% true, you must do what I say,
00:54:50.640 and then you're consistently proven
00:54:52.620 to not quite be right about what you say,
00:54:55.480 eventually people are going to tune you out.
00:54:58.720 And I think that is what's happened
00:55:00.380 because they said, don't wear a mask.
00:55:03.340 Then they said, wear a mask.
00:55:04.300 Then they said, the vaccine is this, then it's that.
00:55:07.040 They made a lot of claims about things.
00:55:09.180 They said, oh, we just need to give it to the vulnerable.
00:55:11.300 we gave it to the vulnerable. They were like, no, no, everyone needs to take it, right?
00:55:16.320 Then they said, I mean, there was a clip of Rachel Maddow, huge in America, saying,
00:55:20.760 if you get the vaccine, you can't pass it on. Well, you can.
00:55:25.800 Now we know that the vaccines work well enough that the virus stops with every vaccinated person.
00:55:33.360 A vaccinated person gets exposed to the virus.
00:55:36.060 the virus does not infect them the virus cannot then use that person to go anywhere else
00:55:42.920 it cannot use a vaccinated person as a host to go get more people right and when you get all of the
00:55:51.160 stuff coming out it's fine because science it works that way in that it never knows the exact
00:55:57.560 answer and you're always feeling in the dark for what the actual answer is but you've got to retain
00:56:02.500 that humility you've got to say look we don't know exactly currently our best estimate is that
00:56:08.880 if you get the vaccine you're going to be protected it may be that not everybody is right and it's the
00:56:14.180 same and peter mccullough who i have some issues with because right as you and i had covered for
00:56:18.740 the second time he was saying you can't catch it and doing it without any humility on joe rogan
00:56:23.280 he was quite arrogant about it at the same time two weeks later when it was clear that you can
00:56:28.060 catch Omicron even if you've got natural immunity, to be fair to him, he came out on Twitter and said
00:56:32.940 so. So that's how it should be. People need to, on both sides, need to take that certainty out of it.
00:56:40.340 You don't know. Even if you're a scientist, you don't know. You just don't know exactly. So you
00:56:46.760 can give people a best estimate, but you can't claim that you know. And then when people don't
00:56:54.020 believe you because you keep getting things wrong, be upset. And it's also as well, there's a lot of
00:57:00.480 scientists, particularly in the UK, who need to take responsibility for the modelling and modelling
00:57:05.480 these huge numbers of people dying. They did it with Omicron, they did it at the start, terrifying
00:57:11.060 people. And then it doesn't come to fruition, but we go back to these people again and again.
00:57:18.580 Neil Ferguson
00:57:19.640 at what point are we just going to say
00:57:23.120 just shut up
00:57:23.980 well one of the things that happened while we were ill
00:57:26.800 is that Fraser Nelson of The Spectator
00:57:29.320 had an exchange on Twitter with one of the
00:57:31.240 modelers in which it
00:57:33.000 essentially became clear, there's a very good Spectator
00:57:35.220 article that Fraser wrote about his experience
00:57:37.220 of talking to this guy, it became clear
00:57:39.340 that when they do models
00:57:40.960 basically I think the government
00:57:42.960 asks them for the worst possible scenario
00:57:44.800 and then they tell them the worst possible scenario
00:57:47.360 without saying this is actually statistically incredibly unlikely.
00:57:51.560 Here's the most likely scenario, which is much milder.
00:57:54.280 So basically for the last year, two years,
00:57:56.680 it's basically the government have said,
00:57:58.540 what's the worst thing that could happen?
00:58:00.000 And they've gone, everyone's going to die.
00:58:02.380 And then we have...
00:58:04.140 Everyone's going to die.
00:58:05.640 Lockdown and restrictions and whatever
00:58:07.500 because we're operating not on the most likely scenario,
00:58:10.880 but on the worst possible case.
00:58:12.740 So there's something wrong there.
00:58:14.780 Of course there's something wrong.
00:58:16.300 there's something wrong there because it's not just the impact on the government it's it's the
00:58:20.940 impact on ordinary people's lives where there there are people who are more neurotic they're
00:58:26.660 more anxious they're more risk averse and you're terrifying them yeah and you're terrifying these
00:58:32.360 people and it's just not the effect it's having on their lives it's the effect it's having on
00:58:36.780 their relationships it's the effect it's having on businesses people not going to coffee shops
00:58:41.660 restaurants not going here not going there this is having a huge effect and we're not talking
00:58:48.500 about it yeah the fact is i can't remember now what the stat is tens of thousands of kids are
00:58:55.380 no longer on the school roll yeah we don't know what's happened to them we just we don't know
00:58:59.260 yeah what effect is that going to have 10 20 years down the line well what effect is that going to
00:59:03.980 have now what's happened to them they could have been killed by by uh someone in their home or
00:59:09.480 whatever we just don't know we don't know right these kids have literally disappeared off the
00:59:13.180 roll so to me that's pretty bad here's here's an unpleasant stat if you go into secondary school
00:59:19.080 being behind your peers yeah the statistic is that you're never gonna you're never gonna catch
00:59:24.240 up yeah that's a stat it's a famous stat in education you're just never gonna catch very
00:59:28.460 unlikely to yeah yeah highly unlikely to but we have now a generation of children yeah yeah but
00:59:35.400 they're all stupid now so that's fine yeah it's fine mate well listen mate speaking of covid and
00:59:40.620 you know our recovery i'm you know i'm really enjoying being back to work as you can see i've
00:59:45.080 got a bit of a lingering cough i'm not infectious for people who are worried about me coughing and
00:59:49.060 whatever but um you know we've done an hour and i do feel like my energy levels are not certainly
00:59:55.300 not what they used to be in terms of doing this so i think we'll wrap it up here we'll do a few
00:59:59.260 questions for locals and if people have got a bunch of questions we'll maybe do a follow-up
01:00:03.380 conversation depending on whether people find this interesting or not but in the meantime thank you
01:00:07.800 for watching uh join our locals if you want to see the questions that people have asked and our
01:00:11.720 answers and we'll see you very soon with normal episodes uh that we'll be coming out soon see my
01:00:18.280 brain is not working so yeah so it's normal episodes which are always on a wednesday and
01:00:22.440 sunday 7 p.m uk time 2 p.m eastern standard uh friday saturday and thursday see i got it wrong
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