TRIGGERnometry - ＂The West Must Defend Itself＂ - Yasmine Mohammed

00:00:00.000 Hello, and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster.

00:00:08.620 I'm Constantine Kishin.

00:00:09.900 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:00:15.960 Our brilliant guest today is an author and human rights activist, Yasma Mohammed. Welcome to Trigonometry.

00:00:22.460 Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

00:00:24.960 It's great to have you here. Listen, obviously, the reason we wanted to talk to you is you've been pretty outspoken recently in the wake of a number of terrorist attacks in France, and there's a broader issue to discuss as well. I can't wait to get to that because it's a really important conversation. But maybe it's best for us to start off by you telling our viewers a little bit about who you are and what is your backstory? How have you come to the place that you're in? Because it is very, very interesting, to put it mildly.

00:00:51.740 Yeah, so I grew up in Canada to a Muslim family who were very religious. And so I went to Islamic school, I was put in hijab at the age of nine. So that's what covers everything but your face and hands.

00:01:10.960 and um you know your your typical islamic religious thing so you'd have to wake up before

00:01:19.420 the sun rises to pray and then you pray five times a day and the last one being before you go

00:01:24.820 before the sun or after the sun sets um so being in the north because i grew up in canada

00:01:31.560 that ended up causing a lot of problems with the very long days sometimes um and so there's a lot

00:01:38.820 of sleep deprivation is my memory of childhood and uh like in ramadan as well so ramadan you

00:01:45.420 can't you can't eat from sunrise to sunset so that meant that you know some days would be like

00:01:51.240 10 or 11 hours um of not eating when you're a kid is is pretty tough so it was it was a pretty

00:01:58.740 strict muslim upbringing um that i didn't realize was really strict i thought it was just the way

00:02:05.560 it was because everybody that we knew was like that too and um i guess i was a bit problematic

00:02:12.900 because i was always asking questions i didn't you know i would just ask basic questions all

00:02:18.740 the time things didn't make sense to me you know how were all the prophets muslim if muhammad is

00:02:24.880 the one who started islam how were adam and eve muslim too that doesn't make any sense

00:02:29.240 just the most basic questions like that that i that i'd ask i'd get in trouble because that

00:02:35.180 means it's the devil whispering in your ear, you know, not having faith or questioning your faith

00:02:40.620 meant that you're a bad person. So my mom decided that she needed to marry me off to somebody who

00:02:50.500 was strong enough to control me. And so they chose a member of Al Qaeda. And I say they, 0.60

00:02:57.780 meaning my mom was married to a man. So her and my dad broke up when I was very young.

00:03:05.780 I didn't grow up with my dad, but she remarried a man who was already married and already had

00:03:11.180 three kids because in Islam, a man can have up to four wives. And so she was his second 0.97

00:03:17.580 concurrent wife. And together they forced me into a marriage with a member of Al-Qaeda 0.66

00:03:24.240 who was 15 years older than me and um I had a daughter with him pretty soon and

00:03:34.580 I wanted to get away from him obviously because he was abusive and you know just a horrible human

00:03:45.260 being but it wasn't until I had my daughter that I found the courage to do that because I wanted

00:03:50.260 to protect her from having the life that i grew up in i wanted her to have a different life and 0.89

00:03:56.340 her to have freedom and her to have choices and so through a long series of events um that i

00:04:04.400 outlined in my book unveiled very well done very stylish straight up there excellent very slick

00:04:12.600 um through it you know it wasn't easy obviously it was very difficult and it was uh just through

00:04:20.280 the skin of my teeth I was able to get away and go to university which I never imagined I'd be

00:04:26.380 able to do and when I was in university I just took a history of religions course because it

00:04:33.920 was going to be focused on the three monotheistic religions and I thought well you know I know for

00:04:38.720 sure I'll ace a third of this course because I went to Islamic schools and my mom was the head,

00:04:42.860 like the head of the Islamic studies department. And we had to make sure that we always did well,

00:04:46.980 otherwise it would make her look bad. And so I knew the religion inside out. And so I thought,

00:04:52.180 well, this will be, you know, an easy A or whatever. And I never imagined that it was

00:04:56.480 going to change my life entirely. And everything unraveled once I started to take that, learn about

00:05:04.260 my religion sort of from a, with a critical eye. We looked at it, you know, from an objective point

00:05:11.320 of view and I was allowed to ask questions. And, um, it was a safe space. Like the, my professor

00:05:18.700 was, um, he grew up in Lebanon. He grew up Christian in Lebanon. And so he kind of understood

00:05:25.140 a lot of my background and stuff. And he wasn't the kind of prof that would be concerned about

00:05:31.700 Islamophobia or bigotry or whatever, like we could actually have conversations in the classroom.

00:05:37.800 And so, yeah, it all unraveled from there. And 9-11 happened. And that also really helped to

00:05:47.020 push me out. And, and that's that. And then I, you know, I went on living my life, got remarried,

00:05:55.160 had another daughter, you know, and I stayed quiet about everything, just from fear, mostly.

00:06:01.700 I knew Asam was in prison, but I also knew he was connected to Al-Qaeda, so he'd have friends everywhere.

00:06:08.280 So I changed my daughter's name, changed my name.

00:06:11.460 We moved cities quite often.

00:06:15.820 And eventually I was able to relax and kind of forget that that was my background, like just go on with my life, just buried it, basically.

00:06:26.360 Never really dealt with it.

00:06:27.980 And then the infamous episode of Bill Maher with Sam Harris and Ben Affleck happened.

00:06:35.940 And in that episode, Sam Harris and Bill Maher were trying to talk about the problems with Islam and how the issues in that religion were so anti-liberal, anti-women, you know, anti-freedom, etc.

00:06:53.520 and Ben Affleck just refused to let them have that conversation he jumped in and called them

00:07:00.280 gross and racist and etc so the next day my Facebook was covered with friends who were 0.82

00:07:09.000 you know so proud of Ben Affleck for shutting down that gross racist man and done it and I'm 0.93

00:07:15.880 like oh my gosh like I have I have failed you people I have not because I kept it all to myself 0.52

00:07:21.140 I didn't say anything. And while I was watching that episode, I almost I teared up. I was so excited and happy that these two American men on national television were talking about me, essentially, because they were talking about people who left Islam. 0.82

00:07:40.980 And they gave the statistic of like, close to 90% of people in Egypt feel that people who leave Islam should be executed. Well, that's me, my family is from Egypt, and I left Islam, they actually care about me on real time with Bill Maher, like it just felt like I was finally being seen and heard for the first time, something that I was even too scared to talk about with my friends, I was seeing on television.

00:08:08.000 and ben affleck came swooping in like the white knight that he is and he shut down the conversation

00:08:14.680 and the reason you know i felt really betrayed obviously by by ben affleck especially since he

00:08:20.920 did a movie called dogma where he had no problem criticizing christianity for the same issues but

00:08:27.260 when it came to a slam suddenly we can't talk about those things we can't talk about you know

00:08:31.620 the much more atrocious atrocious things that are happening in this day and age because of the fact

00:08:36.960 that there are so many Islamic theocracies and so that is what inspired me to start writing my book 1.00

00:08:43.900 and once I started writing my book I just organically ended up in activism it wasn't

00:08:51.540 something that I ever chose it just kind of happened and then I started my organization

00:08:59.500 and so now this is like a huge part of my life. Well yeah and Yasmin first of all it's good to

00:09:05.040 know that batman isn't islamophobic so that's a weight of all of our shoulders but also as well

00:09:10.560 isn't part of the problem we talk about islam but like all religions like christianity and judaism

00:09:16.000 there's various different sects some are more conservative than others so to talk about the

00:09:21.320 religion itself it doesn't really get to the heart of the issues with certain sects of the of the

00:09:28.860 religion well um i guess i should clarify that you know islam is very different from christianity 0.97

00:09:36.580 so in christianity you have like 30 000 different sects or something like that in islam 90 of

00:09:43.060 muslims are sunni muslim so that's how i grew up so when we talk about the the religion of islam

00:09:51.840 We're talking about that, you know, basically the words on the page, because unlike the Bible, the Quran is the literal word of Allah.

00:10:01.780 So it's not metaphorical. These are not stories. These are edicts, right? It's a law book. These are rules.

00:10:10.880 And so I guess it's important not to conflate Islam and Muslims.

00:10:16.800 Islam is the religion, the words on the page, you know, the scripture, the demands that the religion makes.

00:10:27.780 OK, so those are very clear. Scholars have been, you know, studying those for years.

00:10:33.780 They make Sharia laws based on them. And like I said, 90 percent of Muslims follow Sunni Islam.

00:10:40.600 The other 10% are mostly Shia.

00:10:43.580 So think of Saudi Arabia, 90% of Muslims follow that. 0.79

00:10:47.220 And about 10% of Muslims follow Iran's Islam.

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00:11:21.800 Now if you look at Saudi Arabia and you look at Iran, you'll notice there's really not that much difference between the two countries as far as Sharia.

00:11:29.400 It's, you know, it's the same stuff. 1.00

00:11:31.720 They'll both kill homosexuals. 1.00

00:11:34.500 They'll both kill people for leaving Islam. 1.00

00:11:37.700 They both force women into modesty clothing, Iran a bit more because they'll actually 0.99

00:11:43.040 imprison women.

00:11:45.500 Saudi Arabia doesn't imprison women anymore, but a lot of women have been imprisoned and 1.00

00:11:51.020 still are in prison.

00:11:52.660 And a lot of women were being imprisoned in Saudi Arabia for wanting to drive, but no 1.00

00:11:56.580 women in Iran were ever imprisoned for wanting to drive. 1.00

00:12:00.440 So even though it's a little bit of a different flavor in how they are misogynist, sexist,

00:12:06.900 evil towards women, it's, you know, very similar. So that is the religion of Islam. It's sharia, 1.00

00:12:15.160 basically. It's Quran, it's hadith, it's sira, the life of the prophet. Then there are close to

00:12:22.040 two billion Muslims. So I think that's what you're talking about there. So there's the way people

00:12:28.600 follow their religion, of course, varies wildly, right? You could have somebody all the way on

00:12:36.880 the left, like Majid Nawaz, for example, who is a reform Muslim. And so, you know, he believes

00:12:46.000 in equality of the sexes. He is not an anti-Semite. He believes in LGBT equality, et cetera,

00:12:55.080 et cetera. Things that would cause him to be killed by people on the opposite side of the

00:13:02.860 spectrum even though they also both of them both extremes call themselves muslim and then of course

00:13:09.780 you've got all the muslims in between so it's every anywhere from majid nawas to like isis 0.99

00:13:15.660 on the other end and um everybody's calling themselves muslim but they are all following 1.00

00:13:23.920 the religion differently in that some are going to follow it word for word and not ignore one

00:13:32.300 single letter which would be isis and then other muslims who choose to cherry pick and say well no 0.99

00:13:38.960 i'm not actually gonna do that because i don't think we should you know uh stone people to death 0.92

00:13:46.660 for adultery or i don't think that we should uh cut off the hands of thieves or whatever the case

00:13:52.620 may be yeah i'm sorry to interrupt may i just jump in there because i think that's a really

00:13:56.560 important point that you made there so quite often uh certainly in this country in britain

00:14:01.460 We are told when there's a terrorist attack or when this issue is being discussed that ISIS or Al-Qaeda or any other Islamic-inspired terrorist organization, these are people who, quote-unquote, have perverted the faith of Islam.

00:14:16.120 Whereas what you've just said, and correct me if I'm wrong because I'm just trying to understand, what you've just said is actually the opposite.

00:14:23.680 it in other words the people who are not committing these attacks or who are not engaging in throwing

00:14:29.360 gays off buildings or whatever those are the people who are not following the religion whereas 1.00

00:14:34.420 the people that's correct so what you're saying essentially is isis have a literal interpretation 0.96

00:14:39.640 of the 100 whereas the muslims the muslims sorry just who are not doing any of that 0.97

00:14:46.680 they are the ones who are not following the faith of islam to the left correct yes correct so it's 1.00

00:14:51.960 like if you think of it if i'm going to compare that to christianity if you think of people who

00:14:56.680 follow the old testament so think of westboro baptist church or something they are going to

00:15:01.140 be very literal and follow exactly what that book says um whereas most christians would have no

00:15:09.600 problem eating shellfish or whatever the other rules are you know like so it's kind of like that

00:15:15.000 So, yes, the the Muslim, the ISIS, Al Qaeda, all of the jihadis over there, they are following the religion to the letter. 0.64

00:15:26.600 And this is why it's really that that's not it's not a true statement to say that they're the ones that are perverting the religion or they're hijacking the religion.

00:15:37.540 um the the truth is that and I mean the word perverting and hijacking don't work because

00:15:44.260 I think it's a positive thing that people are cherry picking and choosing not to follow aspects

00:15:49.340 of the religion so um I completely support Muslims who want to you know maintain their

00:15:57.500 identities as Muslims but also want to live in this century and to live as progressive

00:16:04.540 liberal people and who don't want to follow very conservative right-wing ideology that is

00:16:11.580 barbaric and archaic. And Yasmin, why do you think it is that in a world which is more

00:16:18.280 technologically advanced than it's ever been, particularly in the West, liberal democracies

00:16:25.140 and so on and so forth, that we have suddenly seen a rise in this type of very, very conservative

00:16:30.200 outlook amongst young people in particular? Well, I think it's unfortunate that those are

00:16:36.400 the voices that you hear, because those are the voices that are not scared to speak up.

00:16:41.560 The truth is, there is a tsunami of people that are leaving Islam. I mean, I don't think anyone's

00:16:49.460 left in Islam in Iran. I mean, that's obviously hyperbole. But most Iranians, because they have 1.00

00:16:56.340 sharia because they have the islamic regime because they're getting pure unsugar-coated islam 1.00

00:17:04.140 they hate it and the same thing happened in iraq as well when isis you know was big in iraq

00:17:13.920 people were leaving islam in droves because they were seeing oh my gosh is this what my religion

00:17:21.280 teaches because it's very different when it's theoretical and when you actually see it. And

00:17:26.980 that's exactly what happened to me with 9-11. When 9-11 happened, it wasn't, I wasn't, it's kind of

00:17:35.880 hard to explain. It's like you knew that that's what you're supposed to do. You understand that

00:17:40.780 they were following the religion and that was the right thing. But you feel so sick just as a human

00:17:47.880 being. So you're kind of conflicted. And it pushes you to deal with that, with that conflict

00:17:57.600 in your mind, right with that with that cognitive dissonance. And just like me, that hundreds of

00:18:05.780 thousands, if not millions of people are started leaving the religion when they started to see

00:18:10.200 what ISIS were doing in Iraq and Syria. So I think that it's unfortunate that you don't get

00:18:18.740 to hear their voices and you don't get to see their faces. And there are a lot of feminists 1.00

00:18:24.320 all over Saudi Arabia, all over Iran, all over Egypt, all over the Muslim world 0.74

00:18:29.580 that can't speak because if they do, I mean, they know what jihadis do, right? They live in that

00:18:39.740 world. Like we know there's so many cases I could tell you there's people that have been hacked to

00:18:45.020 death in the streets of Bangladesh, people that have been beaten to death in Pakistan, people

00:18:50.680 being stabbed. I mean, this is happening now in Europe, but this is not new news for anybody in

00:18:56.440 the Muslim majority world. I mean, as we're talking now, 35 kids at a university in Afghanistan

00:19:02.100 just died yesterday. 1.00

00:19:06.360 Sunnis killing Shiites, Muslims killing Muslims. 1.00

00:19:09.620 And so we're used to that kind of violence at every turn. 1.00

00:19:14.420 And that's why people are too scared to speak up.

00:19:17.500 So there are a lot of other magic nawazes out there,

00:19:20.340 but they're not living in the UK.

00:19:22.680 So they can't put their faces and their names out there.

00:19:26.000 They can have private Twitter accounts

00:19:28.160 and interact with me and interact with each other,

00:19:30.360 but you don't get to see them you don't get to hear from them i mean recently there was a bunch

00:19:36.940 of mosques in france that all signed this paper that basically said we denounce people that say

00:19:46.320 muslims are being discriminated against in france that's a lie that's not true we're happy here we

00:19:52.380 love it here not one single person signed their name to that they signed the names of the mosques

00:19:58.780 that they belong to and the organizations that they belong to, because they know that

00:20:04.580 if they sign their name to that paper, they're putting their life and their family's life

00:20:10.000 at risk.

00:20:10.920 So it's incredibly dangerous for moderate Muslims to speak out. 1.00

00:20:16.780 And so it just looks like the conservatives are the majority, or it looks like they're

00:20:26.220 the ones that are, that everybody else is okay with it because nobody's pushing back. I hear

00:20:31.220 that a lot. People are like, why aren't Muslims pushing back against this? And I equate it kind

00:20:36.680 of to the woke culture because that's a way of getting them to relate it to something in their

00:20:41.700 lives that they can understand. And I say, well, you know, in America or Britain or anywhere in

00:20:46.140 Europe, people are afraid to speak up against woke culture because they're afraid it might

00:20:51.220 affect their job or they're afraid people might call them racist. They're afraid that

00:20:55.740 friends or family might judge them or treat them differently or even stop being friends with them

00:21:00.280 so multiply that by like a few thousand and that's the kind of fear muslims feel

00:21:07.920 about speaking up against the extremists in their religion um because not only will they lose their

00:21:15.200 jobs they will lose their jobs they'll lose their livelihoods they'll lose their family

00:21:19.360 they could lose their heads as well right do you think the mainstream media are biased

00:21:25.200 Yes. That's why you watch Trigonometry. But we all still read the news and the thing you really

00:21:30.620 want to be doing is comparing how different publications cover the same story. That's

00:21:35.920 where ground news come in. Drawing from 40,000 media outlets around the world and over 30,000

00:21:42.520 news stories per day, they empower you to arrive at the truth yourself. Don't do that, just watch

00:21:48.560 Trigonometry. Everyone here at Trigonometry loves ground news because they've got so many brilliant

00:21:53.320 features but there's one feature in particular that we all find incredibly useful it's the blind

00:21:58.580 spot feature it is the news blind spot and what this allows you to see is what your particular

00:22:04.020 media that you're consuming whether you're right or left is not covering there are certain issues

00:22:09.040 that the right-wing media will never cover and therefore if you only watch the right wing you

00:22:12.940 won't know equally on the left it's the same thing and what the news blind spot allows you to do is

00:22:18.260 to get the information that the people who you're getting your media from are not telling you and

00:22:23.100 they've also got an amazing website, which is ground.news. For those of us who live in the

00:22:28.280 21st century, unlike Francis, and have phones, just download the app from wherever you get your

00:22:33.220 arms. Yasmin, let me push back very gently on some of that, because when Francis was asking you

00:22:41.160 about why we're seeing a lot of Muslims in the West remain very conservative down the generations,

00:22:48.720 We have surveys in this country, and if you poll Muslims in Britain about homosexuality, about sex outside of marriage, about what should happen to apostates, you do find that there's a very significant majority of people, and actually quite often the younger generation have a more strict code that they follow or at least think of.

00:23:11.560 So why is that happening, which I guess was the point of France's question.

00:23:15.520 Yeah, I mean, believe it or not, those polls, as abysmal as they are, are way better than if you polled people in the Muslim majority world. So people that do come to the West, their minds are getting opened. It's a slow process. 1.00

00:23:36.400 and the thing is is it's it's it's not just risky as far as like if you're in pakistan you could get

00:23:45.260 go to prison or you could be killed or you could be lashed in the streets in saudi arabia the all 0.77

00:23:50.480 of these things are true but even if you're in europe or in in north america you're going to

00:23:56.940 be judged by your community you're going to be judged by your family and so you're too scared

00:24:04.560 to even have those thoughts in your own head this is i'll give you my my experience 0.74

00:24:10.680 growing up i knew i was supposed to hate non-muslims i knew i was supposed to hate 1.00

00:24:17.040 jewish people i knew i was supposed to hate gay people how did you know that so because i was 0.99

00:24:21.700 taught that i was that was that that's the rules right like this is you you you must hate anything 0.98

00:24:28.160 that Allah hates. This is a very common thing, right? So if Allah hates gay people, then you 0.91

00:24:34.620 must hate gay people. Allah loves Prophet Muhammad. You must love Prophet Muhammad. You have to, you 1.00

00:24:39.180 know, there's, they call it the surat al-mustaqim, the long, thin, it's almost like a tightrope. When

00:24:45.840 they, when they put it visually, it's a tightrope. And on, below the tightrope is hell. So you have

00:24:52.980 to walk a very very thin straight line and do not waver or you will fall into the depths of hell

00:25:01.060 so there's no thinking involved you just constantly have to stay focused so you don't

00:25:08.060 you don't you're not allowed to question things it's really hard to to to i'm going to try and

00:25:13.500 convey to you guys what it feels like to be indoctrinated like as a child to have the fear

00:25:19.220 of hell put in you they tell you in detail about how your skin will and your your flesh will melt 0.97

00:25:26.780 off and then it will regrow and then it will melt off again and i remember asking my mom at like six

00:25:33.460 years old like well if that keeps on happening won't you eventually get used to it and she's

00:25:37.760 like no each time it's gonna hurt just like the first time you know and you get told of adhab

00:25:43.200 Al-Qabran that means like all of the punishments that are going to happen to you when you're in

00:25:52.000 the grave waiting for the day of judgment. So the snakes that are going to go into your eyeballs

00:25:56.880 and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So really, really, really vicious, scary stuff that you're

00:26:03.780 told as a little kid. And by the time you're an adult and you want to start questioning,

00:26:11.360 it's like you know there's i think you even have a saying and in christianity something like give

00:26:17.480 me a child younger than seven and and then i'll give you the man or something like that like once

00:26:23.160 you've indoctrinated them it's yeah it's a jesuit saying give me the boy at eight years old and i'll

00:26:27.700 show you the man at 18 yeah yeah so it's kind of like that they just indoctrinate you from a young

00:26:33.600 age. And then by the time you're an adult, it's like too difficult for you to even go there

00:26:40.640 because you've been, your mind has been so trained to stay on this long, thin, straight line and not

00:26:48.820 to waver. And so even though I knew that I was supposed to, that I had to hate gay people, 1.00

00:26:56.660 hate Jewish people, want non-Muslims to be killed, want Islam to spread across the world, 1.00

00:27:01.800 want the caliphate to rise, pledge my allegiance that when the caliphate rises, that I would go 1.00

00:27:07.000 and support it. You know, all of this stuff and you, you, you spew all the stuff you're supposed

00:27:12.320 to spew, but you never really think about it. You just, you're just kind of like, well, you're

00:27:20.380 brainwashed, right? So you're just, you're just repeating it. And so if I were to sign, or if I

00:27:27.860 were to fill out one of those polls at that time, I would be horrified by my results. I was one of

00:27:32.480 those women that would say, I want to wear hijab. I like it, right? It protects me. It keeps me 1.00

00:27:39.020 modest, right? You just, you say what you need to say and you do what you need to do because you're

00:27:45.440 so scared of burning in hell. And you're so scared of losing your family and you're so scared of all

00:27:51.880 of the horrible things that could happen. And Gasmina, but aren't these values completely at

00:27:55.960 odds with living in a secular Western society. They 100% are. And I think that that's

00:28:01.840 what the problem is now. I think the problem is that, well, there's two problems. Number one,

00:28:08.520 people are not willing to admit that these values are not only the opposite of Western values,

00:28:14.800 but they are against Western value. They oppose Western values. That's the first thing. People

00:28:21.840 need to accept that and understand that and deal with that. And secondly, which is really

00:28:27.980 unfortunate, is that now there is no pride in Western values. There's no pushback. So at least

00:28:37.820 when I was growing up, I would hear in the home, you need to wear hijab so that you don't get raped 0.98

00:28:44.860 because if you get raped, it's your fault because you didn't cover yourself properly. I'm hearing 0.96

00:28:48.460 victim blaming I'm hearing slut shaming I'm hearing like textbook rape culture at home 0.96

00:28:54.960 but when I left the house I would hear the exact opposite I would hear very very feminist strong 1.00

00:29:05.040 you know messages that oppose the messages I was hearing in the house and so that allowed me to

00:29:14.140 it allowed it to push through the indoctrination what's happening today unfortunately

00:29:20.920 is that kids who are like me being grown growing up in these muslim households that are being told 0.91

00:29:27.440 these things like democracy is terrible um you know feminism is a is a lie liberalism is is a 1.00

00:29:35.500 is a failure all of these things those things unfortunately is being supported outside the home

00:29:43.560 too, right? When people were being killed over cartoons, the reaction should have been

00:29:55.380 immediate printing of those cartoons on every single Western media possible as a show of

00:30:04.780 strength to say, no, we believe in freedom of expression. We believe in freedom of speech.

00:30:10.360 We will not be bullied. We will not capitulate. But instead, we capitulated and we said, well, we shouldn't hurt their feelings and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And while we're busy capitulating, they're busy feeling strong. They're busy feeling the moral certitude that you feel when Allah is behind you. That's why you're winning, right? 0.78

00:30:33.820 That's why we're able to make these Europeans get down on their knees is because we are in the right and they are in the wrong and we are stronger than they are and we are smarter than they are and we have a law behind us and they don't and we are Muslims and they are non-Muslims, et cetera, et cetera. 1.00

00:30:49.660 So that us versus them mentality is being, unfortunately, what's the word I'm looking for, guys?

00:31:00.460 Well, it's been spread through the whole of society.

00:31:03.680 Yeah, it's being spread and it's being validated.

00:31:08.640 Like everything that they're being taught is being validated outside in the real world.

00:31:14.820 And that's terrifying to me.

00:31:18.360 When I saw the Hebdo cartoons on the buildings in France, I honestly, I teared up with joy.

00:31:27.360 I was like, this is what you need to do.

00:31:29.980 That is exactly it.

00:31:31.480 a show of strength

00:31:33.400 that has zero violence

00:31:35.700 but it's saying

00:31:37.660 we will not bend the knee

00:31:40.420 that's exactly how you need to respond

00:31:42.760 because they are very strong

00:31:44.680 so we need to respond

00:31:46.300 with strength as well

00:31:47.960 do you enjoy watching problematic content online

00:31:54.320 that you don't want your friends or family to know about

00:31:57.180 of course they do

00:31:57.960 they watch trigonometry mate

00:31:59.080 well we have just a solution for you

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00:32:23.280 Absolutely. And by the way, you sound like an expert.

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00:32:46.840 good job spelling it out for them it doesn't sound patronizing at all

00:32:49.860 absolutely oh and by the way all those little words you used i've got no idea what they mean

00:32:53.760 yasmin and what do you say to people who say well all that would do is antagonize people

00:33:01.580 unnecessarily it would be offensive to many muslims who otherwise wouldn't be involved

00:33:06.340 it would obviously lead quite likely to more reprisal attacks so innocent people all over

00:33:11.640 the west would pay with their lives for this uh unnecessary offense that we're giving to muslims 1.00

00:33:18.380 it's it's not unnecessary the thing is is it's your values right especially for french people

00:33:26.260 right the equality fraternity liberty these this is this is their country

00:33:33.140 so for them to bend the knee when it comes to something like that is so much more than just

00:33:41.280 like people would say things like oh it's just cartoons just stop printing them and everything

00:33:45.760 will be okay. That is so not true. Look at Indonesia, look at Egypt, look at Maldives,

00:33:52.480 look at so many different countries. It doesn't work that way. Can you imagine ever somebody

00:34:00.240 saying to their kid comes home and says, there's a bully that's beating me up. And he's saying he

00:34:06.120 wants to take my lunch money every day. And you as a parent would say, well, just give him your 0.95

00:34:10.140 money, give him your money, and then he'll stop, right? Like, no, he won't. He's going to keep

00:34:14.980 going. He's going to feel empowered and he's going to feel strong and he's going to do more

00:34:21.260 and he can get more out of you. And that is exactly what happens. History has shown that

00:34:26.120 over and over again for the past 40 years, ever since the Islamic regime in Iran, people have 0.85

00:34:33.080 been scared shitless all over the Muslim world because they're like, oh, the extremists are

00:34:38.840 going to get us. Oh no, the jihadis in their suicide vests are going to get us. So we have 0.99

00:34:44.340 to give them what they want. We have to give them what they want. And they are constantly giving up

00:34:48.800 all of their freedoms, all of their secularism. You know, women are giving up their freedoms as 1.00

00:34:54.560 well, almost happily, because they're trading it for this false sense of security. Think of the

00:35:05.100 the black box in the plane when the hijackers were about to fly their planes

00:35:13.420 into the World Trade Center. What did they say? They said, just sit down and be quiet and we'll

00:35:22.140 fly back to the airport. Everything's going to be okay. Nobody do anything stupid. Just sit down

00:35:28.100 and be quiet. Everything's going to be fine. That's just what they said before they

00:35:36.980 killed everybody on board. So appeasing bullies, appeasing terrorists is never, ever, ever

00:35:48.640 the right direction to go. And you think it's cartoons today, it's not going to stop here.

00:35:55.140 As soon as you give up one of your main freedoms or anything, they're just going to keep pushing for more, more, more, more, more, more, more, until the whole world is exactly how they want it to be, bowing to Allah. 0.69

00:36:11.860 And Yasmin, there is a counter argument to that, which is obviously, you know, saying that, you know, Islam is one of the, I think it's a protected characteristic in the UK that we talk about how, you know, Islamophobia is similar to anti-Semitism.

00:36:28.400 Do you agree with that or do you agree with the term?

00:36:31.880 Not at all, because when you're Jewish, that is your ethnic tribe, as well as your religion. 0.94

00:36:41.100 In fact, a lot of Jewish people, it's only their ethnic tribe and they're atheists.

00:36:46.440 They're not. Right. Is that? Yeah, exactly.

00:36:49.240 So when you say it's a protected class, that's that makes sense. 0.99

00:36:53.860 That's like saying, yeah, a Jewish person can be a protected class, black person, gay person, et cetera, et cetera.

00:36:59.940 But are Christians a protected class?

00:37:04.060 Right. It's Muslims are just it's just a religion. 1.00

00:37:07.260 It's not an ethnicity. And so there is this hope that they can conflate it with anti-Semitism, that they can say, oh, look, it's the same thing, Islamophobia, anti-Semitism. It's not the same thing. It's very different. Islamophobia is not anti-Muslim bigotry.

00:37:23.400 They're not worried about the human beings. They're worried about the religion. That's why it's called Islamophobia, because they don't want you to criticize their religion, which is exactly what all of this Charlie Hebdo nonsense is about.

00:37:37.680 It's because from their perspective, they're not allowed to draw Muhammad.

00:37:45.180 So if they're not allowed to draw Muhammad, you're not allowed to draw Muhammad. 0.56

00:37:49.940 That's the rule.

00:37:51.900 And that's that they don't, you know, if you are drawing Muhammad, that is an insult to their religion.

00:37:58.820 And so they want to stop you from insulting their religion or criticizing their religion or doing something that is against their religion.

00:38:07.680 and so that's why all of these terrorist attacks have been happening and why do we have these uh

00:38:15.300 i guess you i think could be accurate to describe them as double standards you mentioned christianity

00:38:19.760 it's perfectly normal to mock christianity whole swathes of culture have been devoted to it

00:38:25.800 comedically artistically and otherwise uh obviously that that treatment doesn't seem to be

00:38:31.440 the same in this case why do you think that is i think it's because people don't understand

00:38:36.400 that Muslims are not a race, Muslims are not an ethnicity, they're not, they haven't clued in 0.93

00:38:43.460 that it's more similar to Christianity in that sense than it is to Judaism. They don't, you know, 0.92

00:38:49.940 I tried to make the argument like, you know, you know, a Catholic person from Italy or from Mexico

00:38:55.100 or from America or from Britain, they have in very different cultures, very different religions,

00:39:01.780 very different music art everything they don't share anything except for a lot of religion

00:39:08.980 yes that's right and Muslims are like that too you know you've got Muslims these the the teenager

00:39:16.680 that killed Samuel Petit was from Chechnya same thing the the two brothers that did the Boston 0.96

00:39:22.660 bombing so they're from Russia you've got people from Albania you've got people from Germany you

00:39:28.580 got people from america i got people from egypt saidi arabia these are places people that are

00:39:34.380 wildly different they are not an ethnic group they are they are not a tribe they are they share

00:39:41.320 nothing in common culturally except for the i mean they don't share anything culturally what

00:39:47.300 they share is the religion of islam and i think that in the west there you know people can't even

00:39:53.980 tell the difference between a pakistanian and arab for the longest time people were saying

00:39:58.220 imagine Nawaz was Arab. I'm like, what part of 0.98

00:40:02.180 Arabia is Pakistan? Like, there's just not 1.00

00:40:04.980 unfortunately, even though it's the second largest religion on the planet

00:40:10.280 it's such a minority group in the West

00:40:13.940 that people are just not aware of it. They don't understand

00:40:17.860 I mean, they are learning. Do you really think that's true, Yasmin? Do you not think it's just

00:40:22.120 people are afraid? People are afraid. Of the

00:40:26.080 repercussions of criticizing Islam. So we've invented the word Islamophobia to shut people up

00:40:34.220 because if people aren't shut up, then they're going to say and do things that offend Muslims,

00:40:38.520 which will result in reprisals. Well, yeah. So the word Islamophobia was created by the Muslim 1.00

00:40:44.520 Brotherhood, who are Islamists, similar to Hizb al-Tahrir. So what's important to know about

00:40:50.480 is that they have the exact same goal as the jihadis so islam requires that the whole world 1.00

00:40:57.420 be muslim that everybody bow to allah that's the that's what the religion demands that muslims do 1.00

00:41:05.100 so there's different ways of doing it you've got the jihadis on one end so that's all of these

00:41:10.980 terrorists al-qaeda you know isis boko haram etc etc or all of the lone wolves all over the world

00:41:17.560 they want to terrorize people so that they bow to islam basically they never criticize the religion 0.97

00:41:27.420 that they just um that that they are in control and then you have the islamists who are like 1.00

00:41:36.240 muslim brotherhood hezbollah you know the organization of islamic cooperative so

00:41:40.900 So Turkey, you know, Erdogan, they are people in nice suits that speak, you know, with, they don't look like jihadis, right?

00:41:51.700 They look like proper diplomats, but they have the exact same goal, but they're not going to do it in the same way. 0.68

00:41:58.460 Jihadis will do it through murdering people. Islamists will do it through more diplomatic means. 0.94

00:42:06.120 So they outline the three ways that they're going to do it.

00:42:08.480 one of them is through immigration another way is and through immigration by that i mean so by

00:42:15.880 the time muslims reach a certain point of population then they can make demands because 0.97

00:42:23.260 they're a voting bloc now so that's been so immigration is important for that reason and

00:42:28.360 also through the wombs of the muslim mothers so each man married four wives continue to have 0.99

00:42:33.900 babies to grow the ummah so that you can have um more control and then thirdly through using

00:42:41.280 secular laws against themselves so basically using those secular laws to to so that they can bring

00:42:50.160 islam in you know okay you probably have examples of that yeah so so so when you say that the word

00:42:57.340 islamophobia is to stop criticism of the religion you are a hundred percent correct that is exactly 1.00

00:43:02.080 why it was created in the same way that cutting off a teacher's head is a way to stop criticism

00:43:08.320 of the of the religion it's just two different methods towards the same goal and you brought up

00:43:15.600 that awful awful case which happened in France a matter of weeks ago nobody seems to be talking

00:43:21.800 about it anymore nobody seems to be discussing it there doesn't seem to be any particular outrage

00:43:28.060 It just seems that, you know, all the particularly the white liberals have shrugged their shoulders and we've all moved on.

00:43:33.720 Why is that?

00:43:37.940 You know, it's it's.

00:43:41.700 You know, like I said earlier, it's terrifying for me to see that it was so scary for me to see how nobody really cared about the issue of Samuel Petit, except for people in France.

00:43:54.860 I mean, you didn't hear any voices coming out of the U.K. or out of the U.S.

00:44:00.740 In fact, the U.S. was writing headlines that made it seem like the French police were the bad guys in this scenario because they killed the guy who just behead a teacher.

00:44:11.560 um so the reason why it terrifies me is because

00:44:18.300 it's to your own detriment like the fact that you're not paying attention to these things

00:44:27.880 first of all it feels like a betrayal too like you know like with with george floyd

00:44:33.980 the whole world started having, you know, walkouts all over the world, protests in support of George

00:44:43.940 Floyd. But where were the protests in support of Samuel Petit anywhere in the world? It's like

00:44:49.920 nobody, why didn't his life matter? You know, he's a teacher doing his job, talking about freedom

00:44:59.880 of expression like that's that should have been that should have shook everybody to their core

00:45:09.440 and made everybody say hold on a minute that's an attack on our basic freedoms but um you know

00:45:21.740 unfortunately that didn't happen and then there were very closely after it there were a few other

00:45:27.880 terrorist attacks in france and now one in vienna and so there's just constant terror happening and

00:45:34.660 it takes people's attention away and to be honest it reminds me of like living in the middle east

00:45:41.700 where you become desensitized to these things it's like oh there is another suicide bombing

00:45:47.260 of the market oh how many people died 11 oh only 11 that's good so did you want some more rice

00:45:53.800 like you just it's it's part of life now right and and now it's becoming a part of life for

00:46:00.120 Europeans too and they they don't even seem to be bothered by it well I think a lot of people

00:46:07.280 are bothered by Yasmin but I think the question that I was going to ask you ties in very neatly

00:46:12.100 into that which is do you think that you know the answer to Francis question why why aren't people

00:46:17.860 still talking about is that really we don't feel like we can do anything about it because I don't

00:46:24.900 know what you know if there was a policy that you said you said to me Constance and what you need to

00:46:29.820 do is advocate for this policy for the government to follow and then all of this will be fixed

00:46:35.000 I think a lot of people would sign up to that if it was a sensible thing to do but I don't know

00:46:40.860 what that looks like well so two things first of all the jihadis they were told to do um terrorism

00:46:49.540 now while the governments are busy with covid so they knew that this was going to be a good time

00:46:55.540 because everybody's so busy with the pandemic right and so everybody you're fighting for

00:47:02.240 like when you talk about what can people do i think a lot of people are starting

00:47:07.360 when i say people i don't mean when i'm lamenting that nobody seems to care about it i'm not talking

00:47:12.680 about individual people i'm not talking about you or me i'm talking about governments right

00:47:16.640 um i'm talking about what what exactly like what you just said to have some actual policies but

00:47:27.120 that requires them to sit down and to figure that out and i think that every they're they're just

00:47:34.100 drowning right now well in america i know they're drowning with their um with the election going on

00:47:40.640 france is in lockdown you know uk is in lockdown everybody's so busy with other things that they

00:47:48.100 really haven't they're not able to sit down and say what are we going to do about this problem

00:47:53.640 but we've had 19 years since 9-11 which sort of started this process in a major way

00:47:59.360 I don't think we've come up with a solution.

00:48:01.500 I mean, is there a solution to this thing that makes sense?

00:48:05.200 Because one of the things we have to deal with is, in Western societies, we do have significant Muslim minorities.

00:48:12.440 As you say, there are some Islamists who are trying to use that against the societies in which that's happening.

00:48:18.500 But how do you deal with that?

00:48:19.420 you know if you'd have asked me this before the huge influx of refugees 1.00

00:48:28.300 I would have had a lot more hope I would have given you a different answer because

00:48:34.240 but nobody listened to us back then either but but you know we're at a situation now where

00:48:42.220 it's it's pretty bad but we need to act before it gets worse and now when i say act what i

00:48:51.180 personally think we should be doing is understanding and and it's it's almost it's really difficult for

00:48:59.420 people who are born and raised in the west and even don't have any experience or understanding

00:49:02.920 with islam but if you rely on people who are secular muslims who are reform muslims who are

00:49:11.240 ex-Muslims, people that understand those societies, people that understand those mindsets,

00:49:18.840 lean on them and let them give you advice. And the advice that they will give you is that you

00:49:29.280 need to be able to distinguish between a Muslim and an Islamist, which is, you know, sometimes 0.51

00:49:38.540 very easy but sometimes not so easy so like the pulse nightclub shooting in um in florida that

00:49:47.220 was done by an afghani man his wife didn't wear hijab he was born and raised in america he's not

00:49:53.060 so easy to be able to tell right away this is this there's going to be trouble there um this

00:49:59.720 latest terrorist attack in vienna same thing he was imprisoned for a while and he was let go for

00:50:04.880 good behavior. And they're shocked that he did this because they never thought that he would be

00:50:09.520 capable. They thought that he was reformed and that he was, you know, cured of his need to go

00:50:16.400 to Syria and, you know, support the caliphate. So it's definitely not going to be a hundred percent,

00:50:24.900 but sometimes it's pretty fucking obvious and it's very, very infuriating. Like when you open 0.54

00:50:32.840 the doors to your country and you're just like come on in and people were not only coming from

00:50:39.720 Syria they were coming from Morocco from Tunisia from Iran from me they're coming from everywhere

00:50:44.420 because the doors were wide open you know 15 year olds or sorry like older men I don't know with

00:50:51.900 beards are pretending that they're minors and they're like oh yeah I'm 15 years old so that

00:50:56.140 they could get you know more social security support whatever um there was a whole bunch of

00:51:04.040 this isn't even new what I'm saying like if you read Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book which she wrote

00:51:12.020 probably 15 years ago by now she talked about this happening with the Somali community going

00:51:17.800 into Holland when they were going into there and they would they would just lie and say whatever

00:51:23.180 needed to be said so that they could get the social support that they needed and if anybody

00:51:28.100 tried to call them on their lies they'd say are you being racist and then that would everybody

00:51:34.100 would be like no no no no no no i'm not being a racist okay please continue to steal from us but

00:51:38.920 just don't call me a racist and you know majid nawas talks about that in his book radical same

00:51:46.040 thing he talked about how he was in his university he was radicalizing students publicly and when his

00:51:54.920 administration tried to call him out on it he accused them of being islamophobic and racist

00:52:00.660 and bigots and so they shut up and they let him continue um radicalizing students until a student

00:52:07.760 was stabbed in the middle of the courtyard in the university and then they finally shut down

00:52:14.120 the radicalization so using anyway i started i started going off in a whole bunch of tangents

00:52:21.040 but basically what you need to do is you need to be careful that the people that you're inviting

00:52:25.620 into your country are people that share the same values as you do or at least if not exactly the

00:52:34.940 same similar values so let's take the syrian conflict for example in syria when that happened

00:52:42.160 People had the option of helping Yazidi people, who were people who were being killed, women and children that were being raped. No organizations were helping Yazidis. Organizations were instead helping Sunni Muslims, which is the people that were supporting ISIS.

00:53:02.220 And so when you see when I see a Sunni Muslim covering her face, seven children, chances of that family, one of those seven kids growing up and being radicalized are pretty high.

00:53:19.760 so you gotta make the decisions not based on what looks good you know because for us in canada it

00:53:28.220 was about our prime minister wanted to take pictures with women in hijab because it looks 0.66

00:53:31.920 looks like he's all diverse and inclusive and makes them look so progressive they have the

00:53:36.740 skin color he says him most of the time yeah um yeah it's true but they weren't making decisions 0.92

00:53:47.220 based on who are the gay Syrians that are in danger of being killed who are the ex-Muslim 0.99

00:53:55.880 Syrians who are in danger of being killed right who are the Yazidi Syrians who are in danger of 0.99

00:54:01.440 being killed like triage it differently triage it based on not only who is in most danger

00:54:11.260 but who will be able to integrate into your society easier

00:54:17.320 because they're going to already share similar values as you do.

00:54:24.020 But if you're going to choose people whose values are like way to the right of you,

00:54:30.060 then don't be surprised if they have trouble integrating.

00:54:33.480 And, Yasmin, I mean, the question is, do you think that those types of people then, that over time they will be able to adapt to a Western culture?

00:54:46.160 Or do you think that they will always remain on the outside as a result of their values and their beliefs?

00:54:52.660 I'll ask you this. If you moved Cuba, do you think over time you would start to think that communism was great?

00:55:01.900 My mother's from Venezuela, so I think you've got the answer to that question.

00:55:06.080 So how about that?

00:55:07.100 So if you moved to Venezuela, would you all of a sudden be like, yay, socialism?

00:55:11.200 Well, I do need to lose weight.

00:55:12.880 So maybe for a month or so.

00:55:16.400 Yeah.

00:55:16.940 But, you know, people don't, their beliefs don't change because they have moved to a 0.83

00:55:23.480 different geographic location.

00:55:25.200 They are the same people.

00:55:27.420 And they're going to teach those values to their children as well.

00:55:30.680 and in their schools if they're if they have private schools and in their mosques or in

00:55:36.060 their churches or in their whatevers um so no i don't think it's organically just going to change

00:55:41.520 sorry to jump in is this about a failure of integration is this about no and thank you for

00:55:47.580 asking that because that's something that i always like to mention because i need to you know there's

00:55:52.480 so much white guilt going on all the time and i'm like just just relax because and and this you know

00:55:58.840 i just watched a documentary uh was it itv i don't know it was british where um somebody was

00:56:06.540 going into mosques and she had like a camera and she was recording what what they were saying in

00:56:12.520 the mosques and stuff like that she's a muslim woman now in those recordings there was something

00:56:20.160 that happened they showed a part of what happened but then they didn't really talk about it which i

00:56:24.340 think it was important to talk about what was important to talk about was how the people in

00:56:28.620 the mosques were teaching the uh parishioners that they are not allowed to befriend non-muslims

00:56:40.200 you can live in their country use their you know because you they have better systems in place

00:56:48.080 right better education better social welfare better xyz much you know for a million things

00:56:53.720 that are better than like, you know, Mogadishu or whatever. So come live in their countries, 1.00

00:56:59.220 but you need to hate what Allah hates and Allah hates non-Muslims. So you're not supposed to 0.97

00:57:07.560 befriend them or just smile at them on the streets. They are your enemy. Don't forget that.

00:57:14.200 So one of the sayings, which is common, and I also heard it in another documentary

00:57:19.680 that somebody said it which is if you're born in a barn that doesn't make you a horse and that's

00:57:27.680 something that they tell kids all the time just because you're born in britain it doesn't make

00:57:32.080 you british just because you're born in canada it doesn't make you canadian you are muslim this is

00:57:37.480 your ummah this is your allegiance is your loyalty is to muslims and your non-muslims are 0.99

00:57:47.180 your enemy so i hear this constant thing about like uh people in the west thinking that it's 0.96

00:57:55.500 their fault that muslims were that our muslims are having trouble with integration it's like no 1.00

00:58:01.740 this is a two-way street they don't want to integrate with you they're now this is of course 0.94

00:58:07.860 i'm making a generalization this isn't true for all muslims but the ones that i'm talking of the

00:58:12.720 group that i'm talking about it is true for them there are muslims who do not actively do not want 1.00

00:58:18.960 to integrate with non-muslims they don't want to even learn your language when they're living in 1.00

00:58:25.220 your country so you know you have to remember that it's it's a two-way street so yes you know

00:58:33.040 it's it's important to make it as easy as possible for people to immigrate or not to immigrate but

00:58:40.780 integrate into your countries by offering free language courses or free culture courses or

00:58:47.320 whatever the case may be. I don't know. I know that Sweden and other countries are doing stuff

00:58:51.280 like that. But also keep in mind that there are some people that aren't going to want what you

00:58:57.780 are offering. And if integration fails to happen, it's not necessarily because you didn't offer

00:59:06.120 the right environment for that but it's because some people just don't want to and that was my

00:59:13.680 family that was exactly my experience that's why i went to islamic schools and that's why i wasn't 0.96

00:59:18.720 allowed to interact with non-muslim people yeah because i was going to just say we're running out

00:59:25.500 of time quickly and every interview we do nowadays no not no it's an absolute pleasure speaking with

00:59:30.160 you but every interview we do now we have to end with a sort of self-deprecating joke about how

00:59:35.320 positive and upbeat it's been uh this has been no exception at all um yeah i think i think we've

00:59:42.740 asked a lot more questions than we've answered today uh but i do think they're at least important

00:59:47.380 to ask uh so with that uh we've got one more question for you which is always what's the one

00:59:52.280 thing that we're not talking about but we really should be well if i if i can be you know take this

01:00:00.500 moment to actually bring up my organization free hearts free minds which is an organization that

01:00:07.200 i created to support people who have left us them but are living in muslim majority countries

01:00:13.040 and uh so if you're interested to know what we do and how we help people please go to our website

01:00:19.320 freeheartsfreeminds.com and click on testimonials and then you can read stories from people who

01:00:26.360 have been through our program and they tell you how how we've helped them and your book is unveiled

01:00:32.740 and where can people follow you online uh they can follow me on yasmin muhammad on twitter or

01:00:38.800 on facebook and instagram as well that's great thank you so much yasmin uh thank you so much

01:00:45.960 for watching guys if you've enjoyed this interview and you're new to the show our episodes go out on

01:00:51.460 wednesday and sunday always at 7 p.m uk time and our live stream constantin they are also at 7 p.m

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TRIGGERnometry - November 22, 2020

＂The West Must Defend Itself＂ - Yasmine Mohammed

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