TRIGGERnometry - They Tried To Cancel Me But Now I'm Free - Mike Graham

00:00:00.000 so what happened mate they didn't like something that appeared on my facebook page do you know

00:00:05.960 what happened with that facebook post i really don't i said i didn't put it there and they

00:00:10.680 wanted to investigate my phone i decided it might not be the greatest idea to give my phone to

00:00:15.000 a company that's been known to hack phones they wanted access to bits of my phone that i didn't

00:00:20.480 think they should be able to look at as soon as i started talking to lawyers they were like don't

00:00:23.740 give them your phone under any circumstances i speak to people who are moving out of london now

00:00:29.640 because london to them has become unrecognizable it's different because it is now full of people

00:00:34.520 from somewhere else and it didn't used to be and the difference for me with new york and london was

00:00:40.560 that all of the immigration in new york was people who wanted to be american in london and in other

00:00:45.120 parts of britain we've got these communities which are not british and they don't want to be british

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00:01:53.740 mike graham welcome back to trigonomics good day i think this is my third time isn't it it is your

00:02:00.860 third time and you are now a fellow youtuber i am uh courtesy of some events yes indeed so what

00:02:07.100 happened mate very proud um well apparently i wasn't fired um this is my lawyers tell me i was not fired

00:02:12.800 i was simply not taken back um i was never suspended either according to um news uk um but

00:02:20.600 basically they didn't like something that appeared on my facebook page uh i said i didn't put it there

00:02:25.880 uh they said well you're gonna have to prove it that you didn't put it there uh because we've had a

00:02:30.700 complaint from inside the building effectively from somebody at talk sport who tweeted out that i was a

00:02:36.700 racist effectively or that i'd said something racist and that sort of began a whole chain of events

00:02:41.040 which went on for about a month uh during which time i tried to prove to them i hadn't done it

00:02:46.300 which they weren't satisfied with they wanted to see my phone they wanted to investigate my phone

00:02:51.380 they wanted to investigate my ipad i decided it might not be the greatest idea to give my phone to

00:02:56.440 a company that's been known to hack phones um with with the hope that they wouldn't look at bits

00:03:01.760 of my phone that i didn't want to see which was not anything to do with my personal life but was

00:03:07.220 everything to do with my work life everything to do with people i had conversations with i mean

00:03:11.220 so it became a kind of a fight between two sets of lawyers in the end which in which which never

00:03:17.080 goes well whether it's a divorce or whether it goes well for the lawyers goes well for the lawyers

00:03:21.080 they did very well out of it i can tell you yeah um still paying them off um and so so just to get

00:03:27.160 back to this thing about something was posted on your facebook thing which was a bit of a racist

00:03:31.400 comment it was a bit of a racist comment it was basically uh it was a picture of some people

00:03:35.660 on a tube train which i didn't take um and another picture which i had taken which looked like it had

00:03:41.540 been somehow doctored and put on the same facebook post it also went on instagram because my facebook

00:03:46.440 and my instagram were linked um and it was all about you know why there's so many non-white people 1.00

00:03:50.280 on the tube words to that effect you know and and uh you know a couple of swear words and it was

00:03:55.280 pretty offensive and but you didn't post it but i didn't post it and i was made aware of it on the

00:04:00.180 morning of monday the 20th i think of october um and i looked in and i thought christ i don't know

00:04:05.340 what that is so i just deleted it so it wasn't even really there for very long um and then i got

00:04:10.780 a call after i'd finished my show went home i got a call from my boss saying you know there's there's

00:04:15.660 been a complaint about this twitter post you know anything about it and i said well i saw it this

00:04:19.380 morning but to be honest i was doing my show right in the middle of when i was you know told that

00:04:23.660 it was there and i just got rid of it and i didn't even see when it was posted i didn't really

00:04:27.500 investigate it but what i can do is uh show you that it wasn't anywhere in my log that i didn't

00:04:33.380 you know my log proves that i didn't post it i haven't got the picture in my in my cache of

00:04:37.940 pictures which i showed them i was called into a meeting i showed the head of hr when i showed my

00:04:43.120 my immediate boss um that part of my phone but then they wanted to go further and as soon as i started

00:04:50.400 talking to cyber security people and as soon as i started talking to lawyers they were like don't give

00:04:55.240 them your phone under any circumstances that's not i don't you don't work for them you know i'm i'm an

00:05:00.860 individual contractor i'm not on their staff they didn't pay me a pension they didn't pay me for

00:05:05.460 being off sick you know i was a contractor they said you're under no obligation to do that and they

00:05:10.380 were asking eventually for access to my whatsapp messages for my emails they wanted access to bits

00:05:16.000 of my phone that i didn't think i should be able to look at and i thought to myself you know

00:05:20.060 they're going to hold all of this information they're going to basically mirror the whole phone

00:05:23.320 forensically examine it and they will be able to look at that no matter what they say to me there's

00:05:28.680 plenty of that anytime to get you fired anyway well exactly and some of the people i was talking to

00:05:34.860 that i'd had conversations with on whatsapp were people that shall we say they don't like very much

00:05:39.880 right um because that you know that's the business we're in i'm a journalist you know and

00:05:43.360 aside from all of that there are sources people i talk to people who give me information

00:05:47.720 you know um my cyber security expert that i hired said you know they can find this stuff

00:05:53.940 they can look on your phone and see what's been deleted and what hasn't been deleted

00:05:57.580 they can still find it so there's no point in even deleting stuff so i then went and got my own

00:06:03.320 forensic investigation done by a completely independent team up in um near manchester um at

00:06:11.480 the advice of this cyber security guy that i had and they do stuff all the time they work

00:06:15.240 with the police they work with you know law enforcement agencies they're very reputable

00:06:19.460 i gave them that and they weren't they wasn't enough they said no we want to do it ourselves

00:06:24.780 and i just thought you know when we got to the point at that stage it was like two three weeks in

00:06:29.040 and i could just see i wasn't there wasn't really any point and from what was being said to the

00:06:34.260 newspapers there was a cohort of people at talk sport and also in the building uh who thought i was

00:06:40.620 a bit of a bigot a bit of a racist anyway and they weren't very happy with some of the things i said

00:06:43.740 every day which i'd never been told about you know um so it all kind of came to came to an end

00:06:51.020 and eventually i actually asked them to fire me effectively because i was like you know you're 0.97

00:06:54.560 gonna you know shit or get off the pot if you pardon the expression because four weeks had gone by 0.91

00:07:00.140 i wasn't making any money and according to them i wasn't suspended and so my lawyers were going 0.99

00:07:06.560 well if you're not suspended you should be paying him but no do you know what happened with

00:07:10.300 that facebook post i really don't no i mean the best i can i can imagine is that somebody

00:07:15.920 accessed the account somehow um remotely uh we managed to find a few kind of logins from

00:07:23.340 a year before six months before from places i hadn't been now i didn't have two-factor

00:07:28.440 identification my the cyber security guy brought in so i can't believe how unprotected your account

00:07:32.900 was given how high profile you are and how high risk you are you know somebody from the cyber

00:07:38.520 team at news uk gave me a memo when i was called in to say this is how you can secure your account

00:07:45.440 and i was like i was a bit fucking late now you know maybe you should have given me that last year 0.90

00:07:50.080 um so i really don't know and nobody knows i mean everybody on twitter you know the land of

00:07:54.720 experts like it's easy to prove that you didn't do it just show them the login and that somebody

00:08:00.100 will be shown to have logged in well there wasn't anybody there and i don't understand enough about

00:08:05.100 cyber hacking i do know that people get hacked all the time people are always going i mean people get

00:08:09.460 their twitter accounts hacked all the time at the moment you keep getting these messages from people

00:08:12.860 saying please vote for me on this podcast and then something terrible happens you know major

00:08:17.580 companies are getting hacked every day and you know if i was to be a conspiracy theorist i would

00:08:23.240 say somebody was out to get me because you know a couple of weird things happened to me in the

00:08:28.240 previous two months i had my back window smashed in my car and nothing was stolen for example and

00:08:34.280 there was a case of wine in there which you know might have been heavy for people to carry but you

00:08:38.220 think they might have taken a couple of bottles didn't take anything it took an old jacket out of

00:08:42.140 the back of the car you know stuff like that and you just think this is all a bit strange

00:08:45.760 but it's so interesting that well when we're talking about that because i used to work for talk sport

00:08:51.820 yeah and for people who don't know talk sport is a radio station that goes out to predominantly

00:08:57.920 working class men who in their vans driving around etc or in factories warehouses all the rest of it 0.85

00:09:06.480 and the and the the idea that talk sport would be progressive that they would be offended by

00:09:13.440 something you said just boggles the mind really well that would have been true maybe 10 years ago

00:09:18.420 but not now because now the business of of media is is absolutely riddled with wokists you know 1.00

00:09:26.200 people who have gone in who have completely changed the face particularly of big companies

00:09:30.440 you know i mean that building is full of very very different people there's a wall street journal

00:09:35.120 uh which has got some pretty left-wing people working for the times is now a very left-wing

00:09:39.220 newspaper uh harper collins the uh the book publishers also riddled with kind of you know

00:09:44.900 gen z gen x whatever they're called gen z i suppose um who complained once about my radio station or my

00:09:52.780 show which used to be pumped out in um in the elevators in the lifts they actually complained

00:09:58.360 about it because they said all he does is talk about migrants and we find it offensive so they 1.00

00:10:02.980 stopped broadcasting it in the in the lift in the building right and they started putting virgin on

00:10:07.860 instead some nice music you know and these were people who didn't work for like 18 months while

00:10:12.560 covid fun just didn't bother coming to the office you know and they're all these kind of trust fund

00:10:16.700 kids they're all kids who could work for hardly any money and they're all woke and i suppose that's

00:10:21.980 what's happened to talk sport you know and yeah you can understand people not wanting to work with a

00:10:27.180 racist but i mean i've been working there for 18 years and nobody's ever called me racist nobody's

00:10:31.900 ever said i was a racist i've never done anything i've had a few run-ins with a few organizations and

00:10:36.560 i've had a few spats with people on social media but you know i'm not a racist i'm sorry you know um

00:10:42.800 but it got to the point where i suddenly thought if they if they say you can come back to work

00:10:47.900 what will happen then you know what what kind of you know um safeguards will they put on me you know

00:10:55.500 will they give me a series of things i can't talk about you know the station was under a lot of

00:10:59.760 pressure from offcom we were kind of i was moving the station further and further to the right every

00:11:04.580 single morning um and i was and i was you know pissing all over keir starmer every single day 0.75

00:11:09.100 and they didn't like it downy street used to complain about me all the time you know um officially

00:11:14.080 and say you know would mike graham please stop calling the prime minister a liar well no because

00:11:20.060 he's a liar i'm sorry and so then i started asking other people if he was a liar so i got kemi 0.81

00:11:24.460 bedenock in and i was like do you think keir starmer's a liar she said yeah absolutely then every 0.98

00:11:28.800 single guest i got it you think keir starmer's a liar yeah so you know there was there was kind of

00:11:33.660 things going on that were suggesting to me that we were you know we were not going to be as free

00:11:40.400 perhaps as i wanted to be anyway and so and sometimes you just you know i've been fired

00:11:46.380 five times in my life from various different jobs you know never for being a racist and in fact i

00:11:51.740 always say to people well actually i didn't get fired for being a racist i got fired for not giving

00:11:55.740 them my phone and they put out a statement which was pretty brutal actually after 18 years which

00:12:01.420 basically said that they were gravely concerned that i didn't um want to help them out and with

00:12:07.460 their inquiry and that i reneged on it and i didn't renege on anything you know they say that i agreed to

00:12:12.300 go and see somebody to give them my phone which i never actually did because we never ever got to the

00:12:17.600 point where i said i'm happy with the parameters of this you know i didn't want them to have my phone

00:12:23.960 for they wanted for nine hours so basically you know they didn't want to give me a substitute phone

00:12:29.200 so that i could use that while they had my phone and i'm thinking so you're now going to give me

00:12:34.180 another phone which once i give it back to you you're going to go through as well because that's

00:12:39.140 what you do right so i felt like they were sort of out to get me um and none of that was helped by

00:12:45.700 the fact that they weren't paying me and they sometimes would take days to respond to emails from

00:12:49.900 my lawyers you know and i think they were in a real quandary i think there was people that didn't want

00:12:54.440 me to go because i was 50 of their output you know in terms of the money i was making a lot of money

00:13:00.060 for their youtube channel and all of that's gone now but the wokest won isn't it bizarre in a way that

00:13:08.720 you see media companies and a lot of companies as well they prioritize what certain parts very

00:13:17.040 certain minorities of their employees think over profitability you just you just look at talk radio

00:13:24.580 now it's been undeniably damaged by you leaving yeah and you just think to yourself this doesn't

00:13:30.840 make any sense from a business point of view no i mean what makes sense from a business point of view

00:13:36.060 is to make it into a right-wing outlet you know which is what it started out as you know we kind of

00:13:41.780 made our bones initially with the brexit referendum and then the subsequent rows and you know the

00:13:47.860 summer or summer of i guess it was 2019 you know that stalemate summer when we went down into uh college

00:13:55.080 green and we were literally like the rebels you know we were like the bad boys of westminster we had

00:14:00.180 this tiny little tent i scored the tent of shame um and we had these two really good-looking spanish

00:14:04.900 producers um who would stop all the politicians as they were walking towards the great big

00:14:09.860 edifice that was the bbc and sky um and you know all these foreign outlets and and and they would sort

00:14:16.720 of manage to get them to come and sit in this tent where i would give them an absolute roasting 0.99

00:14:20.460 you know which they would never i'd never seen anything like it you know and it was great and it

00:14:26.220 was fantastic and they had to walk past us both ways you know at one point alister campbell um

00:14:31.080 i was actually broadcasting and i was sitting with my back to parlor and i heard and i saw

00:14:35.640 us the campbell and he leaned in and shouted in my ear stop talking bollocks you know so we were

00:14:41.240 really getting to these people um michael heseltine accused me of being impersonate and i said well i'm

00:14:47.380 sorry um lord heseltine but if i'm going to be impersonate to you then you must be superior to me

00:14:52.080 which i don't think you are and he looked at me like nobody's ever spoken to me like that

00:14:55.980 the plebs are talking back and i was and i kept saying to them and i had i had a great argument

00:15:02.480 with lisa nandy about whether or not we had you know all this stuff still on youtube so we kind

00:15:06.700 of made our bones by being a bit punk rock i suppose when it came to politics you know which

00:15:11.540 was brilliant and that was where we we made our niche and then gb news came along and they kind

00:15:15.840 of took an awful lot of our people away a lot of the producers some of the presenters tried to set

00:15:20.480 up in a similar way but they've now had to kind of you know calm themselves down a bit as well and

00:15:24.860 they've all gone a bit kind of vanilla it seems to me um i'm still glad they're there but you know

00:15:30.440 um as time went on then then we got into covid and we were really before gb news was even thought

00:15:36.660 about we were the only people saying you know what's this lockdown all about you know why why

00:15:41.020 have we been told to wear a mask why why when you stand up in a pub is it different somebody sit

00:15:44.920 down you know what you know what's a scotch egg you know all of that stuff nobody else was asking the

00:15:49.460 questions not anyone i mean you guys might want to be but you know we were you mean not in the

00:15:53.720 mainstream in the mainstream nobody was doing it you know well this is an interesting part of the 0.96

00:15:57.560 conversation because i i see you you've been forced out or whatever what not renewed whatever the fuck 0.90

00:16:04.000 the term yeah they fired me basically right but now you've got your own youtube channel i it's crushing

00:16:09.300 you're doing really well mate we're doing so well and i mean i'm in all of you guys because i don't

00:16:14.260 really know much about youtube you know neither do we man we have younger people you don't need to worry

00:16:18.760 about it i mean your numbers are spectacular and when i first met you um i don't know how many years

00:16:23.180 ago it was you had that little studio in highbury and i remember coming up there to talk to you and

00:16:27.860 i just remember thinking this is really a cool thing you know but but you know you you have the

00:16:32.020 kind of arrogance in a way of of the mainstream media when you're in it you know um and now i'm

00:16:37.060 learning from the other side what it's like to build something it's actually really exciting you

00:16:41.360 know i i'm loving it i mean you guys have done spectacularly well um and i take my hat off to you

00:16:47.080 because it i can see also how difficult it is as well um but yeah i mean i can't quite believe

00:16:54.220 how quickly we shut up we go you know it's again nothing compared to some of the numbers that you

00:16:58.240 guys do and others yeah but i've had it for eight years yeah so i mean we've we've we've got nearly

00:17:03.020 six million views in four five weeks you know um we've got 128 000 i think uh subscribers we're

00:17:09.440 working on trying to build up you know there's tricks of how you build all that up but but the reaction

00:17:14.300 has been amazing you know we we look at the and i know that talk has got different um you know

00:17:19.680 outlets not just youtube you know so it's not really fair to compare but you know we're doing

00:17:24.160 four five times what they're doing um just on the live on the live shows you know um and so we're

00:17:30.500 yeah very well i'm really excited about it well this this is the thing is you know talent is talent

00:17:36.360 and the big platforms the big mainstream media organizations they used to have this lock

00:17:43.240 on well it doesn't matter how talented you are if we don't put you on our show yeah you you're not

00:17:49.320 going to get seen and you're not going to get heard it's not really the case anymore no and so

00:17:53.260 this whole thing about like canceling people it's just like huh is it is it like you i'm sure you saw 0.90

00:18:00.120 with me in question time there's all these morons on twitter running around trying to say oh i can't 0.73

00:18:04.180 believe they've had like question time need people who have an audience well you've got a bigger 0.98

00:18:10.020 audience than question time right you know and these people these bozos who kind of see themselves

00:18:14.600 i don't know what they see themselves as is kind of media commentators going you know why have they

00:18:17.920 got him on again he's always on and well because he's actually rather good and entertaining to watch

00:18:22.720 and he has a view he doesn't just sit there worried about what's you know his party's going to say

00:18:27.420 you know when he gets back to the office you know and and question time needs people like you i mean

00:18:32.160 i was watching some um sort of promo the other day for i can't remember why i was on itv but they

00:18:38.280 put this promo on for some new game show they're doing hosted by rob bryden and you go you know

00:18:42.860 is he the only guy that works in television you know everything seems to be involving rob bryden 0.69

00:18:47.680 or that other bloke bradley walsh you know it's all the same people you know um how ed balls has got 0.98

00:18:52.880 a job working on breakfast television i'll never know um and they're so they're just so shit really i mean 0.94

00:18:58.800 i can't think of a reason to watch regular tv and i really don't you know i'd rather watch an 0.78

00:19:03.900 old episode of vera which says a lot more about me probably than i should give away but you know

00:19:09.160 there's literally no reason to watch breakfast tv in in mainstream media there's no reason

00:19:14.620 to watch i mean i've watched laura kunzberg just because it's kind of cringe and you can't quite 0.99

00:19:19.800 believe what people are saying on it and you know this week's was particularly funny with old

00:19:23.000 zach bolanski you know and it's you know i've never had a drink and i've never taken any drugs

00:19:27.260 he runs in a very weird way is all i know um but you're absolutely right because you know now

00:19:34.580 the ordinary people because of covid because of the brexit um sort of a fit up because of um

00:19:41.780 the way that politicians now lie to us all the time as a matter of course people have seen through

00:19:47.580 all that and they've seen through the mainstream kind of westminster bubble and they're not interested

00:19:52.840 in in watching the questions that come from journalists anymore because i mean i was i was

00:19:58.320 on liz truss's show the other day and i was saying you know they're not curious journalists aren't

00:20:02.140 curious anymore they don't ask questions that people want them to ask they just kind of they just

00:20:08.120 kind of parry things and and kind of knock things around and it's all like a bit of a kick about and

00:20:12.400 then they'll go to the pub later you know they're all mates i don't want to be mates with

00:20:15.900 politicians i really don't you know i don't really like them i'd rather just ask them difficult

00:20:20.840 questions and watch them squirm you know and it's quite funny because there's you know an awful lot

00:20:26.700 of mps who used to come on my my old show who are still kind of nervous of coming on the new one

00:20:31.920 because they're not sure if i'm a racist or not and it's like well maybe you can make up your own

00:20:35.620 mind you know you used to come on my show what's what's the difference you know the news doesn't just

00:20:42.340 tell you what's happening it often tells you what to think is happening and these days the biggest

00:20:47.320 red flag isn't what's said it's what gets left out that's why i use ground news it's the only app

00:20:53.300 that compares how the same story is covered across the political spectrum and show you what whole

00:20:58.080 audiences are not being told the blind spot feed is one of my favorite features every day it flags

00:21:03.560 upwards of 20 stories that are being ignored either by the left or the right follow along at ground.news

00:21:08.900 slash trigonometry like this a new study from uc san diego found that climate change cost almost

00:21:14.920 twice as much as we thought because earlier estimates left out damage of the oceans that's

00:21:19.200 a pretty big update and yet no coverage literally zero came from right-leaning outlets all this a

00:21:24.480 recent gallup poll found trust in the media has hit a record low with just 28 percent of americans saying

00:21:30.040 they trust newspapers radio and tv to report the news accurately and fairly that's a staggering result

00:21:35.980 but if you only read left-leaning news you likely never saw it at all go to ground.news

00:21:41.120 slash trigonometry to get 40 percent off their unlimited vantage plan the same one we use and

00:21:46.340 stop being managed by the media got pc optimum points visit shoppers drug mart for the bonus

00:21:52.760 redemption event and get more for your points friday march 6th to wednesday march 11th valid in-store and

00:21:57.880 online but mike you're someone who's got has had a very privileged position in the media because

00:22:08.580 i knew you from way from way back when you talk sport but you started off as a fleet street journal

00:22:13.880 around four decades ago the golden age of newspapers the tabloids to what they have now become which is

00:22:21.520 let's be honest a bit of an irrelevance why do you think that's happened and how did you see the

00:22:27.960 change happen from the moment you started to where we are now well i think a lot of it has to do with

00:22:32.720 the different kinds of media and the way that people now consume it um and the fact that you don't

00:22:38.300 really buy a newspaper now unless you're probably over 60. i mean i i my my kids who range in age from

00:22:45.120 you know 19 to 35 they don't buy newspapers you know they wouldn't know i mean i think a newspaper

00:22:51.100 put in the fire and lighting it you know um and i think also the nature of the of the power of those

00:22:58.120 newspapers has has kind of rescinded you know the sun used to be the paper that made prime ministers now

00:23:04.580 it's not really politically particularly powerful because the whole business is fragmented and the

00:23:11.500 and different people are in it as well you know when i started it was a very working class

00:23:15.500 job to be a newspaper reporter you know you didn't go to oxford you didn't go to do a ppe degree

00:23:21.660 and come out with you know a load of your mates and end up working for newspapers with a very posh

00:23:26.880 accent you know people were tradesmen they didn't go to university they went to um they left school

00:23:33.320 when they were 16 they went and trained to be journalists they'd go to a journalist college they'd

00:23:39.320 learn shorthand they'd learn the law they'd learn um uh you know all sorts of other tricks of the

00:23:45.780 trade that they would have to then use and they'd be paid as a kind of slave practically it's an

00:23:51.460 indentured um you know slave it was a better time it was it was but they learned about how to do the

00:23:57.780 job properly you know and you and they'd get sent out with say the chief reporter they'd go and cover

00:24:01.460 the local courts nobody does that anymore right you know literally there are no local newspapers

00:24:06.220 you know where my kids grew up down in sussex um the local newspaper obviously is now a um one of

00:24:12.360 those storage units you know for for you know putting your stuff in when you get thrown out of

00:24:16.140 your wife's house and uh that's the only people my daughter actually once had to put stuff in she 0.97

00:24:27.480 broke up with a boyfriend and she was moving and i heard some amazing stories from the woman who was

00:24:31.760 running the storage facility including one where a guy used to come in every friday night into his

00:24:37.700 storage unit open the door go inside come out dressed as a woman and then go out and then come 0.98

00:24:43.440 back sort of in the early hours of the morning dressed back into a man and go home anyway that's

00:24:48.600 very progressive yeah very by the by but um and so i think as as newspaper barons i mean you know the

00:24:55.300 murdoch empire for example is is still incredibly powerful but not really because of newspapers anymore

00:25:00.980 because of the the fox tv network you know basically that makes so much money both from the football

00:25:06.840 and also from you know the news and the politics you know the the british operation has become

00:25:12.420 slightly irrelevant you know it's still there but the sun isn't as powerful as it used to be the times

00:25:17.820 seems to me to be a kind of apologist for the labor government um doesn't really ask very many

00:25:23.420 questions at all and it's all become a bit middle class and it's all become a little bit kind of

00:25:27.980 um twee i would say and i think most people in britain don't like that most people in britain

00:25:34.560 and i don't actually mind giles curran you know he's quite a funny guy and says some quite outrageous

00:25:39.640 things but most people would not like giles curran if they met him if you saw him in a pub

00:25:44.680 you wouldn't expect to have a long conversation with him because he's quite posh you know he comes

00:25:49.320 from you know quite a wealthy background and all the people who work for for those kind of broadsheet

00:25:53.640 type newspapers and even some in in the tabloids now have been you know over educated they've never

00:25:59.140 really experienced much in in terms of life i mean when i worked even at the daily mirror they had a

00:26:04.320 massive operation in manchester you know because the north of england was important place now they

00:26:10.300 have hardly anyone they've probably got one person in the north of england and so you know it's all

00:26:14.020 become a very london-centric it's all very kind of managed decline feels like managed decline it feels

00:26:19.640 like they're just kind of trying every year there's more budget cuts they sack more people

00:26:23.360 they're trying to save more money you know they just their business is dying it is dying and one

00:26:29.760 of the things though is they you you talk about the middle class thing i think there's so much of that

00:26:34.520 like when i was on questions time the thing that actually shocked me the most was there was a point

00:26:39.000 at which one of the panelists said well america is a democracy blah blah blah blah and like a good

00:26:46.220 third of the audience just openly laughed china is a dictatorship the u.s is a democracy it remains 0.64

00:26:52.780 our closest it remains it is it remains our closest military ally and i go well you probably don't like

00:27:00.440 donald trump if you're acting that way it's fair enough people are allowed to not like president trump

00:27:04.380 but he won the last election with winning the popular vote the electoral college every swing stay

00:27:11.540 i mean it is a democracy yeah but but in their heads they're so so brainwashed into this way of

00:27:19.300 thinking and then there was another girl who was like oh yeah no we shouldn't do business with america

00:27:23.140 we need to do business with china i'd rather be looking at china right now than i would america

00:27:27.780 at least china we know what's going on with them america it seems like trump especially every day

00:27:35.300 it's something wacky comes out you know whether that's buying greenland um all the all the stuff

00:27:40.260 happening with ice so personally um i'd much rather be in china's bed at the moment than america's

00:27:46.100 like but is that a generational thing as well with these these younger people i mean there was you've

00:27:51.940 probably seen it there's there was a thing going around yesterday on twitter from america where they

00:27:56.100 were asking youngish women supposedly feminists you know whether uh they thought that women's rights were 0.61

00:28:02.420 better in iran or in america and without question they all thought iran i mean it's i used to say

00:28:10.340 when i was doing the old talk sports show that i think that the world is actually evolving in reverse 0.95

00:28:14.900 and people are getting stupider instead of getting more intelligent and more kind of you know 0.99

00:28:18.660 sophisticated people is really stupid and thick because they're driven there's an old george carlin 1.00

00:28:24.340 clip which you've probably seen where he says if you're driven um if you identify yourself by an 1.00

00:28:28.900 ideology then you've already lost the plot because you're no longer actually being true

00:28:33.860 to your own self you don't really have any beliefs you just kind of have read some and you think oh

00:28:38.180 that's good because all my friends agree with that so i'll just say that and there's a bit of

00:28:42.100 that in the media i think that's again yeah where you get um you know i would go on i would go on

00:28:47.220 the radio and and piss all over the times front page because they were talking about some kind of

00:28:52.020 clean air campaign you know which everybody knows is a complete con right and i would say so and you

00:28:58.420 know that didn't make me very popular in the times building you know um and people didn't like it but

00:29:03.140 i was like i'm not going to be part of this media conglomerate where everybody's supposed to think the

00:29:08.340 same thing obviously you're you're not going to be really awkward about it and start you know dissing the

00:29:14.180 products and all of that but surely to christ you can have a disagreement about what they're saying

00:29:19.380 you know well you know that the thing about ideology i always say ideology is how you know

00:29:23.460 what to think about about things that you don't understand about everything that's but but especially

00:29:28.340 about things you don't understand yeah it gives you a template for what you're supposed to believe

00:29:32.820 about something as complicated as climate change right um and by the way that's an interesting one

00:29:39.060 because um net zero i mean the tide is turning so quickly and suddenly everyone's talking about how

00:29:47.300 net zero is total stupidity industrial suicide as i call it like that that whole agenda is going away 0.84

00:29:53.860 in a heartbeat yeah but yet so many politicians like douglas alexander who was on with you 0.99

00:29:59.140 are still clinging to it like it's some kind of wreckage going over a cliff and they're kind of going

00:30:02.900 yeah but this is this is what we have to do because everybody knows i mean i was listening to

00:30:07.220 because of the time i get up now you're like this farmers farming today because it's it's it's it's

00:30:13.380 probably better than the times radio that time in the morning but they had some woman on talking 1.00

00:30:17.700 about how um there's a problem with raspberries and strawberries and and she said you know obviously 0.81

00:30:22.980 the thing that's most important is we have to know what the carbon footprint is of growing fruit in

00:30:28.180 this country and i'm kind of going well it isn't actually you know what's important is how much fruit

00:30:33.140 you're growing and how much fruit you can grow and whether you can you know be competitive you 0.80

00:30:38.100 know it's not you know the carbon footprint of strawberries is ridiculous i mean what are you

00:30:42.340 talking about you know but if you try and tell them that it's all about sustainable this and

00:30:47.460 sustainable that and you know drive an electric car there's fury now about um people who are having

00:30:52.980 to pay you know road tax for an electric car i find hilarious you know because we said it at the

00:30:58.180 time you know when people stop buying petrol cars they'll be out of pocket so they'll need to come

00:31:03.380 after you for the money well i'm still getting an electric car because it's the right thing to do and now 0.93

00:31:07.540 they're all going oh shit you know so i'm getting taxed welcome to the real world you know but 0.87

00:31:13.860 the thing that i find particularly frustrating look net zero and all of this but it's also as well 0.98

00:31:19.940 it's just a very powerful symbol of how they ignore ordinary people's concerns yeah most people

00:31:27.460 in this country do not care about net zero no that is a preserve of the upper middle class who quite 0.60

00:31:33.300 frankly don't have enough to worry about i talk to ordinary people regular people who watch

00:31:38.580 trigonometry they come up they always want to have a conversation with me when they talk what they're

00:31:43.060 concerned about is they can't afford to buy meat in the supermarket they've got a family of three

00:31:49.140 they have a regular job both both people are working once you paid rent once you paid gas once

00:31:54.100 you paid your bills your council tax the road tax what are you left with that's what actually

00:31:59.300 concerns people and we're not having an important conversation which is affordability yeah well i say

00:32:04.980 this a lot you know nobody talks about food inflation and when they do they say oh you know

00:32:09.540 food inflation is really bad that's five percent you know is it bollocks you know if you look at the

00:32:14.260 prices just just as i just go to the supermarket you know things that used to be i don't know a packet

00:32:20.180 of pasta for 50p it's now like 125 and you go well when did that happen you know it's literally gone up by

00:32:25.860 you know a factor of more than twice what it was and it's things like that that people say to me and

00:32:31.300 they used to say to me a lot when i was on talk you know the the sort of weekly shop has gone from 100

00:32:36.420 quid to 200 quid and they're not buying anything extra in fact they're buying less and so you're

00:32:42.100 right and and you know one of the things that one of the great labor lies is you know um you know we've

00:32:46.660 got wages going wages have gone up since we got in well no they haven't they've gone down unless you

00:32:51.060 happen to work in a public sector you know if you're a train driver if you're a nurse if you're a

00:32:55.700 doctor um if you're a copper all of you have been given a pay rise but you know in the private sector

00:33:01.460 people are worse off than they've ever been you know and everything costs more and more and more

00:33:06.340 and more people are contributing nothing to the economy um and fewer and fewer of us are paying tax

00:33:12.260 to pay for all of them and it's not a sustainable i mean it's all about sustainable economy that is not

00:33:17.860 sustainable right and and that's it and that's it and that's what ordinary people feel they feel as if

00:33:25.060 their concerns are not being addressed so the elites are talking about net zero and bringing

00:33:30.340 and being carbon neutral well the guy who drives a van he just wants to be able to pay pay his bills on

00:33:36.980 time and make sure his kids don't go hungry and more and more ordinary people are looking at their

00:33:42.260 wages looking at their outgoings and going i did the maths they're not mathing yeah and look at rachel

00:33:48.980 reeves you know the world's most useless chancellor today and i don't know when this is going out but this

00:33:53.860 week anyway uh is the beginning of a new alcohol tax the alcohol tax has gone up um we talk to pub 0.84

00:33:59.140 owners quite a lot um and on something like a seven pound fifty pint your landlord's making about 47

00:34:05.540 pence because everything else is going out either in tax or in overheads or in supplies or in staffing

00:34:12.500 you know all of the the things that contribute to you running a business and yet what she's doing is 0.99

00:34:18.100 squeezing it even more and then making out that she's doing them all a favor by not imposing extra

00:34:22.980 business rates on them and some of the business rates now are outlandishly ridiculous and you know

00:34:27.620 people running businesses are saying to me i think i'll just chuck it in and just not have a business

00:34:32.580 anymore because it's too complicated it's too expensive and the tax is is ridiculous you know

00:34:37.620 you sum it up in the two parts of what you said there because say i mean the government puts a tax on

00:34:43.060 sugar and cigarettes and alcohol with the claim i mean it's about raising money obviously but the claim

00:34:48.180 is if we put up the tax on these things consumption of these things will go down yeah right so what

00:34:54.020 happens when you put a tax on business what happens business goes down yeah the economy goes down yeah

00:35:00.100 and the reason as you say the reason that all of this is happening is and more and more taxes will

00:35:04.980 carry on is because we actually can't afford the lifestyle that we have we can't afford the welfare

00:35:10.580 spending we can't afford to have millions of people not working you just can't no and highest

00:35:14.740 unemployment figure in five years is going to be announced this week right right because more

00:35:19.300 and more people are getting laid off fewer and fewer young people are able to get jobs um i was

00:35:24.500 listening to uh something on the way down here um the student loan business is now also in crisis

00:35:30.820 um there was a woman saying that she'd gone and done a degree uh taking a loan out for 39 000 um

00:35:36.260 done another postgraduate degree for another 11 so 49 000 she finished in something like 2022

00:35:43.860 but she now owes them despite having paid them back money since she had a job 67 000 and you go

00:35:49.860 well how does that work so you are now over more money than you did when you finished your university

00:35:55.700 sort of you know education and yet you've been paying them so they're literally ripping everybody

00:36:01.460 off every single stage and i'm i'm you know i'm old enough to have been fortunate enough to go to

00:36:07.140 university when it was free um and i didn't even take advantage of it because i only did two years i got

00:36:11.540 kicked out of there as well um but you know um i my youngest son isn't going to university he's got

00:36:20.420 a job um he came back on friday night with a new bmw z4 and i went where did you get that from he said

00:36:27.460 i just traded he had a mini traded in he's got a job um and all of his mates have gone to uni again

00:36:34.580 i'm the one getting education you seem to have all the money you know how's that working and he's not

00:36:39.220 making a fortune but he's working and so in three years time when his mates are all going to come

00:36:44.020 out of uni with 50 000 pounds loans that they own and they're going to start jobs for nothing they're

00:36:49.780 all going to be in in the crap you know and he's going to be flying high probably by then he'll have

00:36:54.340 a better car i don't know but you know there's there's if i was advising anyone's teenage kids 0.96

00:36:59.540 don't bother going to university what's the point well there are some subjects where you know if you're

00:37:04.340 going to do advanced mathematics or whatever there's definitely some subjects that you would 0.97

00:37:08.500 but blair's idea that you need half the country to go to university to do fucking media studies and

00:37:14.740 well he just made it into a business didn't he right i mean that's effectively it and then when

00:37:18.100 the foreign students stopped coming because they couldn't bring seven members of their family with

00:37:21.380 them they pulled the rug and now they're all moaning that they haven't got enough money right

00:37:25.220 well how about you don't pay the vice chancellor you know 700 000 a year for doing bugger all

00:37:29.780 the whole the whole country just doesn't work i mean i've never seen it so bad

00:37:34.340 it's it's absolutely hopeless we're at a strange moment where people are pouring their

00:37:39.220 most private thoughts into ai health issues business ideas political opinions things you

00:37:44.340 wouldn't even tell some of your friends and you're just meant to trust that none of this will be

00:37:47.940 stored analyzed or eventually used against you because tech companies have always handled power

00:37:52.500 responsibly obviously there is another problem too you've probably noticed that some ai tools now

00:37:57.860 decide what you're allowed to ask programmers at these companies get to decide what isn't isn't

00:38:02.500 acceptable for you to think about that's where our sponsor venice ai comes in if you like ai but

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00:39:13.780 getting ready for a game means being ready for anything like packing a spare stick i like to be prepared

00:39:19.860 that's why i remember 988 canada's suicide crisis helpline it's good to know just in case anyone can

00:39:26.580 call or text for free confidential support from a train responder anytime 988 suicide crisis helpline

00:39:33.300 is funded by the government in canada speaking of which i mean that is if you want a ray of sunshine

00:39:41.300 and hope a ray of sunshine definitely doesn't apply to one word to say but some hope yeah is things are so

00:39:47.780 bad now you see politically i mean it's all moving in one direction isn't it it is yeah um and i find

00:39:55.220 it fascinating how it's kind of fragmenting up as well because you've got the left fragmenting up into

00:40:01.220 the greens who are probably the most bizarre party i think i've ever seen i don't even know i mean it's

00:40:05.620 all about net zero they never mention it you know especially the green party you go haven't you got some

00:40:09.620 policy on climate change it's mostly about gaza now it's mostly about gaza and it's mostly about the

00:40:14.260 rich and you know giving everybody free drugs and a free house you know and you kind of go really

00:40:20.420 okay then um and then the right what about your party your party yeah i mean that's hilarious isn't

00:40:26.340 it i don't know is that still around they're adorable yeah they are adorable is it still around though it

00:40:31.300 must be yeah but nobody knows who's running it though because i don't even know if it still exists

00:40:35.540 i think it does it does yeah well zara sultana still exists she exists and she still gets up in 0.98

00:40:41.140 parliament and talks absolute rubbish yeah uh which she did i think a couple of weeks ago 1.00

00:40:45.060 um and i think she was was she not booed somewhere where she got up and said something about i can't 0.99

00:40:49.380 remember well your point is the left fragmenting so they're less fragmenting so labor are basically

00:40:53.860 finished yes in in in my sense i mean pierre starmer reassured us all at the weekend that he's not going

00:40:59.300 anywhere to which there was a collective groan around the country but the guy is is literally an out

00:41:05.460 an outlier um he went to china nobody knows why um he said that we've got billions and billions of

00:41:12.100 pounds worth of investment coming into britain which isn't true he went to japan to see the

00:41:17.060 motorcycle riding former heavy metal drummer who's now the prime minister and didn't seem to get

00:41:22.500 anything out of that i don't you know i don't know what he's for they're going to lose they're not

00:41:27.060 even going to come second in the by-election uh up in manchester um and these young people like

00:41:33.460 there was that sort of smelly looking woman on question time who came out and said that she was 0.99

00:41:38.180 for the green party right sitting next to another bozo who was also looked like he did a good wash 0.75

00:41:42.980 and um these young people you can see why they sacked them they think it's they think it's the

00:41:48.420 answer though they go yeah you're rich so we're going to take your money yeah and we're going to

00:41:52.820 give it to these people who haven't got any money and we're going to take the house that you that you 0.60

00:41:57.060 rent out to some people because you know it's a little bit of extra income for you um we're going to

00:42:01.780 make that impossible for you to to rent out and so actually there's going to be a housing shortage

00:42:06.180 before anything else happens and so but but labor haven't got any answers here you know watching

00:42:11.060 douglas alexander with you you just think you don't know what you're talking about you're so far

00:42:15.780 off being and he's one of the good ones yeah i mean he's not a stupid guy no small guy very talented 0.77

00:42:20.740 in many ways i would say but i guess what i think francis mentioned that when you were in his show

00:42:25.780 francis foster sought your life out which you should check out that was great by the way i really

00:42:30.020 enjoyed that yeah i did yeah i was a bit worried though because when i sort of got home i said i

00:42:33.940 didn't say anything bad you know um i don't think i don't think i did not as bad as the things you've

00:42:38.340 already said yeah but but he mentioned that you were talking about how basically the left's given

00:42:44.180 up on the country the left hates basically the country and the west they think we're all evil

00:42:48.660 racist yeah bigoted whatever yeah but the right's also given up because you know it's had so much mass 0.96

00:42:53.380 immigration the country is fucked countries ruined whatever which to be fair the country's in a bad 0.98

00:42:57.860 shape yeah but i guess your point is we can still recover i hope so i mean i think if you if you take 0.98

00:43:03.460 the view that we can't recover you'd have to be one of those people who just leaves you know and i

00:43:08.420 know a lot of people that have and a lot of people that are planning on doing it a lot of people who

00:43:11.700 just sadly go and you know i can't take it anymore and there is you know the only kind of the only thing

00:43:18.820 that that can save it i suppose is for people who do pay a lot of tax to stay here um but the only kind

00:43:25.540 of insulation from the madness is to make a lot of money um and the more money they take the less

00:43:31.540 you feel like hanging around you know um but yeah i mean let's face it i mean there's no doubt the

00:43:36.100 conservative party ruined britain you know from when from the 14 years when they got in i mean blair

00:43:41.140 had set it up pretty well um for ruination and he recreated all of these you know kind of shibboleths

00:43:48.260 the you know the supreme court over here and closeness to the eu and all these migration um uh sort of

00:43:54.820 targets and all that and the tories came in and just completely it even worse you know for years

00:43:59.780 and and and people say boris johnson was you know a great prime minister do they yeah they still do

00:44:06.420 in the tory party oh yeah some of them still say it in the tory party yeah and they think i mean at one

00:44:11.860 point when he wrote his latest book i think it was a couple of maybe six months ago or so anyway he was

00:44:17.060 he was knocking around and people were saying maybe maybe it's time for boris to come back and i was

00:44:20.740 going no the ordinary people who actually voted for him and liked him actually think he ruined

00:44:25.940 the country you know he screwed up on immigration he screwed up on brexit he screwed up on lockdown

00:44:31.220 everything he did basically just turned to you know um and so when starmer got in i mean i have

00:44:39.540 some sympathy for him which you'd be surprised to hear because everything was broken there's nothing

00:44:44.740 working you know the home office doesn't work the nhs doesn't work trains don't work the roads are 0.65

00:44:49.380 crap there's literally nothing but they're making it worse making it far worse and so i think people

00:44:56.020 see reform as the only kind of saving grace i mean yes there's that splinter off to advance uk and 0.95

00:45:03.380 and there's the rupert lowe the people um but you know reform really are the only hope and i don't

00:45:10.020 even know if that's going to work i think we have to give it a chance i think you have to kind of i mean

00:45:14.740 i'm not party political i never really have been i've only voted once in my life and that was in 1979

00:45:20.180 and i voted not for margaret thatcher believe it or not i voted for labor um because i was at university

00:45:25.300 at the time and uh so i've never voted because i think actually i it's a bit like um what's his face

00:45:33.300 he used to say voting only encourages them um but but yeah so i i i'm i'm not happy i'm not a sort of

00:45:41.860 bedfellow of of fandom i don't like to go these people are the answer you know they must get in

00:45:47.300 because that's the only future we can have i do think they're the only thing that are likely to be

00:45:51.220 the answer and i think nigel france genuinely is a decent guy and i think he's a great leader and i

00:45:56.500 think he would make a great prime minister but i sometimes wonder if he even wants to be prime minister

00:46:00.820 because you know he talks about his life now being completely impossible and if you saw those 0.99

00:46:05.620 idiots up in newcastle at the weekend you know banging on the window of the restaurant he was in 0.99

00:46:10.660 and you know he gets death threats every day and he's got a security detail i have to go 0.99

00:46:16.340 check out everywhere he goes before he goes in there you know when james whale was still alive he

00:46:20.820 went down to see him um and when he was going to go to this pub and they had to send these security

00:46:25.380 guys in two hours ahead of time to make sure he was going to be safe in the pub so i mean you know

00:46:30.740 and you do worry because the leftists are so deranged you saw those people in newcastle 0.85

00:46:35.860 a bit like in america you know they're violent they're nasty they're horrible they genuinely 0.98

00:46:40.980 believe that they're on the right side of of god and and anyone on the right is somehow satanic

00:46:47.140 they actually believe that and i worry about that as well you know in terms of my kids future

00:46:52.260 what it's going to be like here in 20 years i don't know but i thought if we look at causes for

00:46:58.100 optimism i think that the emergence of emergence of reform is a good thing i'm going to be honest

00:47:02.980 with you i think the emergence of the green party is a good thing there is that side of the political

00:47:07.460 left who i think are nuts whatever you whatever else but at least their politics are being catered

00:47:13.220 to yeah and i think what we're seeing now actually with the emergence of these news parties

00:47:17.940 is a more representative form of politics because in the old days you had conservative or labor

00:47:23.380 and you go how much does i don't know a right-wing libertarian have to do with an old-school

00:47:28.660 traditional died-in-the-wall tory and you know you the old-school lefties with progressive liberals

00:47:35.860 so maybe what we need are these more kind of smaller parties as it were but are actually more

00:47:40.980 representative of people in general yeah well you might say that if they get in though because uh you

00:47:45.780 know they'll have this place off you uh you know be felt how you feel even if you're full of illegal

00:47:49.780 migrants living here you know you might be able to have a recording studio you don't make any money 1.00

00:47:53.140 you know um yeah i mean it's interesting i mean i saw jeremy corbyn was one of the people leading

00:47:57.540 the charge on um facial recognition cameras um which would be something i imagine that we would

00:48:03.060 agree with him on that you know we don't want these facial recognition cameras all over britain

00:48:06.580 you know because that gives an awful lot of power to people that probably shouldn't have it

00:48:09.940 i don't agree with jeremy corbyn about pretty much anything but you know maybe there is that kind

00:48:14.260 of you know uh genuine um place where if people are proper politicians and they do believe in

00:48:21.860 something trouble is i don't think zach bolanski is the answer though i don't think he believes in

00:48:25.540 anything i mean he's a very strange character but yeah i mean i don't have a problem with having a

00:48:31.540 wide choice and i think that the two-party system doesn't work i think we know that um i saw it in

00:48:37.060 scotland actually interestingly because i worked in scotland for about five or six years maybe more um

00:48:43.620 and labour had had a lock on scotland forever you know i don't think i think the tories had one

00:48:49.860 mp famously every now and again but before the scottish national party came along

00:48:55.300 labour basically guaranteed that they would always get minimum 48 52 mps almost all of them um for

00:49:02.820 for scotland there'd be a couple of live dems you know old what's his name kennedy charlie kennedy was up

00:49:07.540 in the sort of the the the very yellowy huge area but hardly even lived there apart from a load of 0.97

00:49:12.900 cows and sheep um but they took it for granted you know the people who came from the scottish labour

00:49:18.980 machine people like george robertson you know had constituencies in glasgow some of the poorest places

00:49:24.740 in the world and they did nothing for them because they just took it for granted that every day when

00:49:30.100 they went down a polling station they'd vote labour and then suddenly the snp came up with the idea of

00:49:36.740 independence and they suddenly went oh i know let's have devolution that'll be good and then they lost

00:49:41.300 control and now labour in scotland are in a terrible place you know not least because westminster labour

00:49:47.300 are doing so badly but because the snp are now the sort of main power in scotland and they're not very

00:49:54.180 good but you can see that things can change and you know if reform manages to bust open the two-party

00:50:00.740 system who knows what happens after that well that's an interesting question isn't i saw jeremy

00:50:05.700 clarkson wrote a piece i never thought i would say the words clarkson wrote a really interesting piece

00:50:10.500 but he did no no disrespect to jeremy by the way i just don't think of him as a writer primarily

00:50:15.060 but he wrote a piece which i thought was really interesting he kind of said a lot of people think

00:50:19.860 if reform get in ever they think the day reform get in britain is going to turn into an enid blighton

00:50:25.780 postcard yeah it's not going to happen no well britain again it's it's too far gone for that to

00:50:33.300 be honest i mean i speak to people who are moving out of london now because london to them has become

00:50:38.660 unrecognizable you know you probably also saw the piece of video from richmond at the weekend we played

00:50:44.340 it out this morning on the show of these two guys one's got a hammer smashing in the window of a

00:50:49.220 jewelry shop and they literally just tear the window out and just start lobbing a load of jewelry

00:50:53.860 into a bag and then they run off down the street and you know yes of course and people will say oh

00:50:59.380 but you know um there was always that kind of thing going on and yes there was you know crime was always

00:51:03.540 a thing in the middle of london and you know the first time somebody tried to mug me i think it was

00:51:08.180 you know it was in the 70s i was walking home from seeing my girlfriend but yeah but it's different

00:51:13.060 now and london is different how is it different it's different because it is now full of people from 1.00

00:51:18.020 somewhere else and it didn't used to be you know it used to always have as every big city has

00:51:23.620 it had an attractive kind of immigrant um aspect to it but now white people are in the minority

00:51:30.820 38 i think of white english people in london you know and i would say in the last five or six years

00:51:37.620 it's become noticeably a different city and not just because of the color of people's skin but you

00:51:43.220 know you i mean i i go i live in um southeast london and i'll go to the big supermarket there and i can

00:51:50.020 walk through the entire supermarket spend about 30 minutes there and not hear anybody speaking english

00:51:55.220 you know they could be speaking um lithuanian they could be speaking um you know ukrainian

00:52:00.740 they could be you know it's not a question of whether they're all not white but you you don't

00:52:05.380 see very many english people there anymore and a lot of people find that difficult to cope with

00:52:10.340 because it's you know you look at the old shows like um you know the beatles for example from the

00:52:16.260 60s and this is when i started when i wanted when i first was aware of you know what london was like

00:52:21.620 and when they filmed that show on the top you know they filmed let it be or whatever on the top of the

00:52:26.020 soho rooftop you know and you see all the people down below and everybody's white and i know that

00:52:31.220 that might be an unfair comparison to make but you know i went to new york in the 80s and the difference

00:52:37.620 for me with new york and london was that all of the immigration in new york was people who wanted

00:52:43.220 to be american you know it was people who said if you asked them you know um where are you from

00:52:50.020 they would say new york you know famously i got and i used to know um i used to work for the murder

00:52:54.580 organization back then and we used to use these cars called skyline cars and quite a lot of russians

00:52:59.380 used to drive them and i got in there was a guy called charles bremner who had been the moscow

00:53:03.700 correspondent for the times and he and i got in one of these cars and he was very kind of um

00:53:08.740 quite pompous because times people tend to be and he obviously you could tell by the way this guy was

00:53:13.140 speaking that he was russian and uh so charles bremner said to him so where are you from and he

00:53:18.500 went your jersey and that was where he was from he wasn't from russia anymore and so their kind of

00:53:24.820 the american dream for them was to go to america become american you know get a house get a car put

00:53:30.820 your kid through college put a you put a in a flag of the stars and stripes outside your house and

00:53:36.500 it didn't matter where you were from whereas now i think in london and in other parts of britain

00:53:41.060 we've got these communities which are not british and they don't want to be british and it takes us 0.84

00:53:46.180 back to that argument you made about uh rishi sunak on um thanks for bringing that up on question time

00:53:54.100 the distinction is good though because you see i'm for example my parents are very scottish right

00:53:58.100 so i don't really see myself as english i was born in london but i do see myself as british but i kind

00:54:03.860 of see myself as scottish and british rather than english and british and i think that's an interesting

00:54:08.340 distinction well see one of the i mean there's so first of all there's so much lies about it so

00:54:14.740 first of all i didn't bring up the british i don't go around going he's english he's not right

00:54:19.300 she's like that's my job that's right right fraser nelson brought rishi sunak up and he said well

00:54:26.500 i think rishi sunak's like the most english thing that's ever existed yeah is he he's a british prime

00:54:33.780 minister no disrespect him he was a pretty terrible prime minister he's british he's very very culturally 1.00

00:54:38.420 british i totally respect that and i am british too i wasn't even born here i am way more british 0.95

00:54:43.460 than i am russian i mean russians look at me and they go who the fuck is that guy right um so that's 0.80

00:54:48.340 the first thing the second thing is they keep bringing it up like out of context and they keep 0.53

00:54:52.180 saying they keep acting as if i was trying to say rishi sunak doesn't belong so this proves that you're

00:54:58.660 a racist exactly right whereas i said in that very same conversation my son born to two immigrants 0.87

00:55:06.020 in this country is also not english am i being racist against my son so they're taking an opinion

00:55:12.100 about the difference between ethnicity and cultural identity and nationality and making it into a race

00:55:19.940 thing right but i think your point is and look the thing is when someone who looks like you says it

00:55:25.780 everyone sort of goes oh cringe i have friends from all over the world who land at heathrow i go and

00:55:33.540 pick them up at the airport they're black white brad all and they all say the same thing yeah

00:55:40.260 what happened yeah that's what they say yeah i'm sorry i'm sorry that offends people but that is what

00:55:44.420 they say absolutely i mean i go to a gym believe it or not now this is how

00:55:50.260 what's going on i know well i thought when i was making seriously good money i thought it would be really

00:55:54.740 really rude of me to drop dead and not be able to spend all that money on my kids so yeah anyway

00:55:59.700 so i started going to gym like last may around the back of selfridges and oxford street now is actually

00:56:05.540 more arab than dubai right i literally and i mean you know these are all law-abiding people i'm not

00:56:11.460 complaining about the fact that they're here it's an observation right you see more and more arab families

00:56:17.940 uh you see groups of women wearing the full burqa you know five wives walking behind a guy 0.99

00:56:23.780 you know it's there for everybody to see yeah always walking behind um and it's there for it's

00:56:29.860 hard not to notice it and i'm sorry if people don't like it but i'm not going to live in a world where i'm

00:56:34.500 not going to say something about it because when i used to go to oxford street when i was a teenager

00:56:39.300 it didn't look like that you know people were walking there were always foreigners they were

00:56:43.220 always fighting my parents used to used to delight in taking us to you know different foreign nationality 0.98

00:56:49.060 restaurants once every week we would go to a polish restaurant we'd go to an italian restaurant we go

00:56:54.180 to an indian there are swamis we went to in the old days you know we go to chinese restaurants go to

00:56:58.980 jewish restaurants you know it was great because that was part of being in london it was a melting pot

00:57:03.860 but now it's not like that anymore because now it's a kind of it feels oppressive to me

00:57:08.900 that there are so many people here from somewhere else and what people don't realize is when we're

00:57:14.420 talking about immigration as somebody who was born in london lived in london grew up in a fairly

00:57:18.180 working-class part of london and has seen it change the area that i grew up in is now very much more 0.60

00:57:24.660 way more middle class but you lose something when you have that amount of immigration come in because 1.00

00:57:31.300 that sense of community that social cohesion it it changes it dies when you have that level of

00:57:39.140 immigration and people don't seem to accept that or want to accept that because i'm going to be

00:57:44.820 brutally honest it's because it's not no it's not their communities are being affected no exactly right

00:57:49.780 although that may happen soon because apparently there's a plan uh with from the department of uh

00:57:54.500 defra environmental fisheries and whatever they're called now uh they want to make the countryside more

00:57:59.940 diverse they say that it's too white and that they want to put more people from different

00:58:04.740 nationalities and different ethnicities into the country and they particularly want to populate

00:58:09.940 the chilcot hill area because it's around london and they said they literally have said we want to

00:58:15.620 put more muslims into into the into the chiltern hills and we want to put more muslims into the 1.00

00:58:20.500 cotswolds it's a story in the telegraph today and you're kind of going why are they even doing what's

00:58:24.980 it got to do with the government department you know they're not supposed to be changing

00:58:28.580 you know the demographics of the country but that's what they're actively doing and people

00:58:32.980 don't like it and they've got and they've got every right not to like it look let's talk about

00:58:38.820 an unpleasant subject the cockneys yeah the cockneys even exist very unpleasant yeah well look at

00:58:45.140 white chapel i mean white chapel which used to be you know home to a very big jewish population

00:58:49.540 that was where the craze used to hang out you can still go to the blind beggar people will say that's 1.00

00:58:53.460 where they shot him you know over there bullet holes still in the wall bullet holes still in the

00:58:57.220 wall you know um but it's yeah it's it's it's unrecognizable and you know i get the fact that

00:59:02.900 the things change but as i say i lived in america in the 80s under ronald reagan when it was a very very

00:59:10.340 interesting and and wide-ranging and changing place but it always changed with one sort of you know

00:59:17.140 central tenant which was this is america and you want to come to america you become an american

00:59:22.340 you you you recite the you sing the star spangled banner you know you pledge allegiance to the flag

00:59:27.940 and your kids will pledge allegiance to the flag every single day when they go to school

00:59:31.460 that doesn't happen here and i think that's a problem and it is and what it seems to be as well

00:59:36.820 is a sort of tacit acknowledgement that what they're doing is obliterating a culture yeah and

00:59:42.180 not only that they're celebrating it they're going diversity is our strength and you go well what about

00:59:48.100 the previous communities they live there their culture their heritage like the cockneys well

00:59:52.660 no that doesn't matter get rid of them and you go well i mean do you want to actually understand what

00:59:58.420 you're doing to the literal fabric of this country yeah and if they start making it sort of you know a

01:00:04.100 kind of blanket situation at the moment it's mostly cities isn't it i mean you know if you go

01:00:08.420 even as i say to where my kids went to school in sussex you know it's a very white area um and it's a

01:00:14.100 very english area and there's not that many foreigners there but even that's now beginning

01:00:18.420 to change and you start to see the old vape shops popping up you know organized crime um which is

01:00:23.620 which is nothing to do with ethnicity as far i'm aware um but it has everything to do with you know

01:00:28.340 an awful lot of people coming from foreign countries and setting up drug businesses and setting up you know 1.00

01:00:32.900 the albanians for example biggest drug dealers in in europe you know pretty much have a lock on every

01:00:38.100 single part of the cocaine business from here to turkey you know and it's been allowed to happen

01:00:44.100 nobody really knows why you know but the thing is suddenly there's a bunch of barber shops and

01:00:48.900 there's a bunch of you know clearly you know money laundering businesses and nobody's stopping them

01:00:54.420 and nobody voted for this and this i find frustrating because you know as you know i'm an immigrant myself

01:00:59.780 here when i came to britain it none of none of it was like this is this has all happened in my life

01:01:06.020 it's accelerated massively in the last 10 years and it's not my fault i didn't do it even though it has

01:01:11.460 happened in that time but you know so many things i always say this are a question of speed and scale

01:01:17.380 yeah i like ice cream but if i had ice cream every day for breakfast lunch and dinner i'd be

01:01:22.340 fucked yeah and immigration is the same if you choose very carefully the types of people that 0.92

01:01:27.380 you're allowing if you're very selective if you're careful if you say well you know we've got to make 0.92

01:01:31.860 sure you're culturally compatible the numbers are kept to a level where people as you say come they

01:01:36.900 integrate they become british rishi sunak is very british yeah he's totally integrated i'm gonna

01:01:43.220 make that clear right just like other you know myself i've done the same thing it's perfectly possible

01:01:49.060 for people who come here to integrate what is not possible is for millions and millions of people to

01:01:54.660 come in the space of a few years yeah and then for us to expect them for them to integrate especially

01:02:00.980 when we are incredibly shy about a what it means to be british and be about insisting that you do

01:02:09.140 actually integrate yeah and these are like these are just they're not even controversial things to

01:02:16.420 say they're things that everyone around the world including billions of black and brown people too

01:02:22.180 just go yeah of course yeah exactly but of course it's true for anyone who has uh got any nationality of

01:02:28.580 any kind you go to any country in the world you know if they were going through what what we have

01:02:33.620 been going through in the last 10 years in terms of immigration they'd be up in arms you know they'd

01:02:37.860 probably be taken to the streets you know um yes of course brazil is a is a a multi-ethnic society

01:02:44.660 it's quite a racist society as well depending on what color brazilian you are right but i can

01:02:49.860 be pretty sure that there aren't thousands and millions of people coming there from from european

01:02:54.900 cultures um to change the way that they live whereas we've got that situation here and i think

01:03:00.340 also the other sort of major part of why it's happened is the welfare system here because the

01:03:05.940 welfare system has encouraged more and more brits um not to work uh it's also encouraged more and more 0.98

01:03:11.780 immigrants to come here because they can also get welfare we are now going to be i think the biggest g7 1.00

01:03:16.820 uh country for spending on on welfare uh i think it's two percent of gdp that we will now be spending

01:03:24.020 this year on on on welfare of one kind or another and you know again it's a failed political system

01:03:30.420 it's a failed political kind of theory that's been propagated ever since the days of tony blair

01:03:36.020 then into david cameron you know where hug a hoodie was a thing you know you didn't want to

01:03:40.260 you know punish anybody for doing anything bad um you know talk down to people make out that they're 0.99

01:03:46.260 too stupid to understand the you know the machinations of the state let the state take 0.98

01:03:50.900 over and become bigger and bigger and bigger which is what it's done and all of these things have 1.00

01:03:55.220 conspired i think to just ruin the country and it's not just one thing it's not just immigration but 0.56

01:04:00.900 it's a big part of it and it to me it comes down to something i went to a dinner where there was a very

01:04:06.740 famous politician being interviewed by journalists and it ties back into what you were talking about

01:04:11.940 all the questions that the journalists gave the politicians they were just

01:04:16.340 nice questions nice and i thought to myself everybody in practically everyone in this room

01:04:21.780 has had a better education than me no doubt they're smarter than me but one but there's no

01:04:26.580 courage or balls no they don't want to shake things up no why is it that we just don't want to be

01:04:33.140 uncomfortable we don't want to have an uncomfortable conversation we don't want to have a we don't want

01:04:38.020 to have conversations where we go look we need to limit immigration right and it just seems that this

01:04:43.380 has just been pervasive for our society to the point that we avoid discomfort for so much that we find

01:04:50.100 ourselves now in the most uncomfortable of places because people are frightened to be seen as as wrong

01:04:56.500 they're frightened to be seen as as you know right wing and again this is the establishment the

01:05:01.140 establishment is now in no way shape or form right wing the establishment is now left wing

01:05:06.020 and everybody who runs this country is effectively left wing from the civil servants to the politicians

01:05:12.180 to uh the the people in the media to the school system to the educations the higher education sets

01:05:17.700 the universities even companies i mean look at what the banking sector is like now you know my sister

01:05:22.740 worked in in the big bang days of the 80s you know and funnily enough nigel farage was working there as

01:05:27.540 well she worked with him uh at drexel burnham lambert before they got done for you know michael

01:05:32.500 milken's you know chicanery uh where he went to jail for insider trading but you know it was you know

01:05:38.820 it was balls out it was going to make as much money as you can you know pike needs to quit piking when you 1.00

01:05:44.020 get somebody to have to do a deal that they didn't really want but they'd have to buy something off you

01:05:47.940 and then you'd sold it to them and they'd have to take you know delivery of it and people would

01:05:52.420 you know it was like the wild west and it was unregulated to some extent um but they were very

01:05:58.580 far from left wing whereas now you get the bank of england and it's you know where are the gender

01:06:03.460 neutral toilets they're on the seventh floor oh that's all right then you know um and they debank

01:06:07.940 people like nigel farage for having views that they don't like and it's all very kind of nice it's

01:06:14.100 changing back again now in wall street wall street has kind of given up under trump they've kind of come

01:06:18.260 back a little bit and they've reclaimed a bit of that kind of you know right wingery if you like

01:06:23.060 but you know i don't know when it all happened people like people really stressed ask me she said

01:06:26.340 when did it all happen i said i don't really know kind of happened in the last 20 years and and maybe

01:06:32.020 we're all to blame for not seeing it i'd say 30 years i think what people didn't realize because

01:06:37.380 blair was fresh-faced you know the conservatives were tired he came in and also in before the war in

01:06:44.980 iraq it sort of felt like everything was great because they pumped a lot of money

01:06:47.940 in public services they improved education they put money into health care blah blah blah

01:06:52.340 but what nobody realized is in the background they were introducing all of the all of this legislation

01:06:58.580 which has been with us for the last 30 years which has ruined absolutely and it was kind of almost

01:07:03.780 time bombed wasn't it right so that nobody would really see it happening and it would only be suddenly

01:07:07.860 when the supreme court popped up yeah and everyone went oh when did that happen yeah you know i thought

01:07:11.940 you know when i was studying politics you know the house of lords was the highest court in the land

01:07:16.420 you know we didn't even pay any attention to uh to europe to europe at that point and now suddenly

01:07:21.940 you know the house of lords it's pretty meaningless as a legal entity you know well the same thing with

01:07:26.900 the whole diversity agenda under the labor government they basically made it legal to

01:07:31.540 discriminate against everybody who wasn't a minority that's what they did they said there are

01:07:35.940 protected characteristics which means that these groups of people because they're minorities or

01:07:41.060 women as well they they they get to have special treatment yeah so then the diversity agenda flows 0.97

01:07:47.940 from all of that if you look at the the boats coming across the channel that's all to do with

01:07:53.220 the human rights act and the fact that basically you're not allowed to deal with people who are 0.99

01:07:57.860 coming into your country illegally as illegal immigrants right right right all of this stuff uh so 0.99

01:08:04.740 it's been happening but but the thing is as you say the tories came in and i don't think they

01:08:09.220 realized what the hell had happened no and then before they knew it they were balls deep on brexit

01:08:13.620 and then and then you know that took years and then the moment that's finished you get the war

01:08:18.420 in ukraine you get covered sorry the moment covered's wrapping up you get the war in ukraine before you

01:08:22.660 know it 14 years have gone and nothing's since they're laughing at the west and going you know

01:08:29.460 well you're weak and this is why we're doing what we're doing because you're not going to do anything

01:08:32.580 about it that's right because you're too busy making sure that the soldiers that you're now recruiting

01:08:36.820 um don't use words like manpower because you know i actually had a call from a from a soldier who who

01:08:42.820 said that he was asked he got a phone call he was in a barracks got a call from sort of the department

01:08:47.620 for defense and he was asked to go around every single notice board in the barracks to make sure

01:08:52.820 the word manpower wasn't used anywhere right and that's what they're doing you know and equally you've

01:08:58.260 got this whole situation where um cameron and then theresa may tried to make the conservative

01:09:05.220 party nicer you know from when she said you know we we're known as the nasty party we need to change

01:09:10.020 that view and you know suddenly hostile environment was a thing you couldn't say about the immigration

01:09:16.740 police you know well we wanted hostile environment so these illegal immigrants don't come here and they 1.00

01:09:20.660 don't want to come here it should be a hostile environment you know if it's not a hostile environment

01:09:24.820 more of them are going to come it's a pretty straightforward equation and yet the tories have spent the

01:09:30.260 best part of the last i don't know probably 14 15 years trying to be nice and it's backfired

01:09:36.900 horrendously because they've been stoked basically by everybody else all right well let's hope zach

01:09:41.860 polanski can fix it i mean i keep expecting something just very odd to come out about him

01:09:48.260 because you know one we know it's not his real name even though he claims that it was his family name

01:09:52.900 before um you know the second world war bloody blah so he kind of reclaimed it i just think he's he

01:09:58.340 clearly is not what he says he is um he's meant to be coming from quite a wealthy family when he

01:10:02.900 pretends to be this kind of you know crusader for justice and i just i just my prediction for the

01:10:10.100 year is that zach polanski was self-destruct that's interesting yeah that's interesting i actually studied 0.86

01:10:16.020 hypnotherapy so i'm very familiar they're all fucking oh mate well again he claims that that's a sort of 0.88

01:10:22.500 made up story by the sun um is it that's what i didn't know he says that you know they kind of 0.98

01:10:27.220 took a story that he was talking about and kind of ran with it the thing is there is a video of

01:10:31.780 him talking about it so he can't completely deny it but he's he's sort of saying that the son kind

01:10:36.980 of took advantage of him um and kind of put that question to him and he ended up coming back but you

01:10:42.660 know there's trouble with you know he's managed to fulfill the first law of politics which is to tell

01:10:46.660 lies you know if somebody catches you out just deny it like lord mandelson i mean one of the

01:10:53.700 interesting things actually touching on polanski is just his economic illiteracy yeah and when he

01:10:58.100 was asked about what what should britain do about the debt yeah he said that we needed to be more

01:11:03.300 like japan which is to effectively double our national yeah japan is 200 of debt to gdp if not more

01:11:08.980 yeah and he was saying that's how we get better public services to print more money yeah well that's

01:11:14.180 what we've been doing though and that's why we are and that's why we are where we are when he was on

01:11:18.340 with laura kunzberg on sunday um he was asked about this whole business of uh of sort of fair rents and

01:11:24.100 and how to to make it easier for people to rent for less money and he said well obviously you know what

01:11:28.980 we need to do is look at countries where it's been a success and laura said well all the countries that

01:11:33.700 have used it it hasn't been a success and he said well that's not entirely true but then he couldn't

01:11:38.260 name a country whose system he would adopt because it would work better for landlords and for tenants

01:11:44.100 there isn't one because as soon as you put you know the so-called fair rent act in landlords will

01:11:49.780 just pull the properties there'll be more shortages of there'll be more homeless but in

01:11:54.260 terms of your plan then look you would not dictate rent controls you would give the power

01:11:58.580 to mayors to set rent controls if they wanted that would be the way you would do it exactly based

01:12:03.140 on local incomes based on affordability based on housing stock because we need to build more

01:12:07.060 houses too i should say though if national government wanted to do this on a national level

01:12:11.300 i wouldn't oppose that either just someone needs to do that and whether it comes at the most local

01:12:15.220 level of a national level that's the conversation i'm open to but the problem that we need to fix

01:12:19.620 is the spiraling rents that are getting more and more expensive the only system that works it may

01:12:24.580 not be perfect is capitalism can't do it any other way and that's the real issue is that and it's not

01:12:31.780 just zach there are plenty of people in politics who are just they're just not serious no and you saw

01:12:36.900 that on question time you i was looking at these people and they were talking you're going

01:12:41.140 you're just not serious politicians you it's not serious they're just peddling narratives they're

01:12:46.660 just saying things that sound good and make you feel good but the unfortunate and unpleasant reality

01:12:52.420 is they're not going to the ideas aren't going to work and if they're not going to work then

01:12:56.420 they're pointless well this is one of the things that people say about reform isn't it and some of

01:12:59.220 the people that have you know kind of you know defected from the tory party if you like 0.95

01:13:03.460 and that guy jake berry um i think he's got a mention on question time yeah um but you're bad

01:13:08.900 for him because i've gone at him pretty hard it's not because it's personal towards him he's not a bad

01:13:12.980 guy but but he was in the conservative party arguing with me on question time saying net zero is

01:13:19.380 brilliant yeah he's now part of reform yeah you can see why people have questions exactly right

01:13:24.020 i remember having james cleverly on once and i was taking um the mickey out of i think it was rachel

01:13:28.820 reeves who um it was revealed had charged her electricity uh to the taxpayer from her second

01:13:35.620 home you know even though it wasn't that far away from london and i could see him kind of squirming a

01:13:40.260 little bit and i said it's outrageous isn't it i said especially if you don't live that far from london

01:13:44.420 i said you live in essex don't you yeah um well you don't charge your uh your second home electricity to

01:13:49.780 the taxpayer do you james and he went well um actually yeah i do and i was like well then you

01:13:57.940 shouldn't be doing it just stop you know you're making a pretty good living you don't have to just

01:14:03.060 because it says in the book that you can do it you don't have to do it same goes for that sort of you

01:14:07.940 know hatchet man that they've got um pat mcfadden you know who's also an ex blair right he actually

01:14:14.180 moved house to this house next door from the one that he owned because he couldn't claim mortgage

01:14:19.460 relief anymore since they changed the rules and he moved into the house next door so he could rent it

01:14:24.420 so he could claim the the mortgage on that so he could claim the rent on that therefore could pay

01:14:29.380 the mortgage i mean because he rented out his his other house right so he sort of did a double dip

01:14:36.420 and when i had him on i said you know how do you explain to people that they should trust you 0.77

01:14:40.580 and he just went everything i did was within the rules and that's what they say and it's ridiculous

01:14:47.140 well see this is uh i mean i am uh actually believe it or not a little bit sympathetic on

01:14:53.140 that because what happened for many decades is we basically never were allowed to pay mps properly

01:14:59.940 relative to what you want someone the caliber of the people that you want in power or in in those

01:15:05.780 positions so what happened is they said well you can't be paid properly but we will give you this

01:15:10.580 like expenses slash fund where you can make as much money as you want right so really it's double

01:15:15.700 the salary that we're paying and then they all got caught when the expenses scandal came out and

01:15:21.940 my view is actually i think mps should be paid way more than they are at the moment i i'd pay them

01:15:26.980 a quarter of a million pounds a year but if you get caught fiddling the books would chop your 0.98

01:15:31.300 fucking head off yeah that would you give them expenses on top of that no no no no you just give 0.99

01:15:35.620 them a flat amount and then you you know do whatever but what i'm saying is you just need 0.99

01:15:40.820 uh proper salaries because then that's you that's how you attract proper people you know like in any 0.54

01:15:45.940 business right if you want to hire somebody to do a talk show you're gonna have to pay them a lot

01:15:49.700 yeah right or even if you don't if they get a big audience then you're gonna have to pay them a lot

01:15:54.660 right so if you want to attract the top caliber people to politics you have to pay them well because

01:15:58.660 it's a job let's be honest yeah right i mean i wouldn't want to be a politician i people keep asking me

01:16:02.900 if i want i'm like are you insane why would i want to do that right but on the other hand no expenses

01:16:07.460 and very very very severe accountability yeah if you misbehave right put those two things together

01:16:12.820 that's a good deal people ordinary people in this country who have never seen a salary like 96 000

01:16:18.180 which is what they get now of course we'll say but they already are getting a load of money i know

01:16:21.860 and i know that for for people living in london they'll say well actually that's not a massive

01:16:25.620 amount blah blah blah but they're not badly paid let's face it i mean it depends what you want mike

01:16:31.060 if you want a bunch of mediocrities yeah well that's what we've got that but what i'm saying

01:16:36.100 is look if you were running a business right and that business was the most important business in

01:16:40.900 the country it was important for national defense yeah it was important for planning it was important

01:16:45.380 for running the nhs properly it was important for all sorts of things you would hire the top people

01:16:50.180 that's why the person the chief executive of the nhs i don't know how much he or she earns i'd guess

01:16:54.900 it's millions i would imagine so right certainly certainly sick big high six figures i would think so

01:17:00.500 right so you want the people who are running the country to be that well paid as well otherwise

01:17:06.580 you're going to get this bunch of non-entities that we have but unfortunately that disproves your

01:17:10.660 theory though because the people running nhs don't know what the they're doing and so i don't know why

01:17:15.140 they're getting paid the amount of money they're getting paid that's fair you know um and the other

01:17:19.060 thing is i just want to mention this is i don't know if you saw it the weekend the sunday times had the

01:17:23.060 list of um people who pay the most tax in this country yeah and i would show that to zach polanski and go

01:17:28.740 you know you talk about you know people not paying their fair share of taxes rachel roof says it all

01:17:33.380 the time it turns out she's going to now punish the people who make about 48 grand a year they're 1.00

01:17:37.860 going to get taxed the most by proportion but when you see the likes of uh some footballers you know

01:17:43.700 sort of captains of industry hundreds of millions of pounds worth of tax they're paying and so make

01:17:48.580 out and then you know the top one percent i think account for something like nearly 50 or 60 percent

01:17:53.620 30 30 percent it's the top 10 isn't it so top 10 is 60 plus yeah and the top one percent is yeah and

01:18:00.500 so you know that is a massive you know um sign i guess that the system works because they collect

01:18:08.420 much more tax from the people who make money than they do from the people who don't and you might say

01:18:13.300 that's as it should be but i don't see any reason to change it is what i'm saying they don't need to

01:18:16.820 pay more because if you make them pay any more they'll just disappear which they are yeah which they are

01:18:22.020 mike great to have you on glad to see that you're doing really well thank you where can people find

01:18:27.060 your your show it's the mike graham show on uh youtube uh we've got a subset which i don't

01:18:31.380 understand but we're working on that that's the mike graham show.com and um yeah we we just we're

01:18:36.980 hoping to do more shows as time goes on we're a pretty small operation at the moment um so we're

01:18:42.500 just kind of running you know constantly running ahead of ourselves trying to get stuff done and trying

01:18:47.140 to improve we're trying to get to a point where we can take calls trying to get to a point where we

01:18:50.820 can do voice notes and things like that um and really replicate what a mainstream morning breakfast

01:18:56.980 show could do you know and i think um it's going to be very exciting year the last question yeah what's

01:19:02.580 the one thing we're not talking about that we should be the one thing we're not talking about that we

01:19:05.700 should be now you see you always come up with a good question at the end don't you the one thing

01:19:08.900 we're not talking about yeah yeah well i've told you a few things that people don't know about me there

01:19:15.220 are things that people will never know about me i suppose um i wonder if we should be talking about

01:19:20.580 um iran and where that all goes because it's going to go somewhere bad i think um i think trump's going

01:19:27.620 to drop some bombs on them or something and i think that'll kick off so i don't know what that's going

01:19:33.140 to mean for the rest of us but the thing that worries me about iran is that and i know that many

01:19:37.140 people have escaped the iranian regime because it's so horrible but you know it takes that long to get

01:19:42.580 30 000 iranians out on the street demonstrating how many iranians are actually living here

01:19:46.980 and what will happen if the regime gets removed will they all go back or will they all stay living

01:19:51.940 in hackney you know i don't know we shall see all right head on over to sub stack where we get to

01:19:57.940 ask mike your questions she says the one thing that she doesn't agree with you on is your animosity

01:20:05.940 with tommy robinson he's been proven right on so many fronts could there ever be a treat a truce

01:20:11.860 between you

TRIGGERnometry - February 08, 2026

They Tried To Cancel Me But Now I'm Free - Mike Graham

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