TRIGGERnometry - October 24, 2022


Tom Stade： ＂I've Had Enough of the Joke Police!＂


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 11 minutes

Words per minute

160.89632

Word count

11,522

Sentence count

843

Harmful content

Misogyny

11

sentences flagged

Toxicity

134

sentences flagged

Hate speech

11

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of Trigonometry, Francis Foster and Constantine Kishin are joined by comedian Tom Stade to talk about what it's like being an entrepreneur in the 21st century and why it's not as easy as it looks.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.200 A friend of mine, a mutual friend of ours actually, another comic, went to see your show in Edinburgh 0.99
00:00:04.500 and he messaged me after going, I think Tom's had enough of this shit. 0.99
00:00:09.540 And I don't know what shit he was talking about exactly, but I was curious. 0.99
00:00:14.000 I threw out every rule in the book is what I've done. 0.99
00:00:18.220 I've just, I got tired of listening to people going, well you can't punch up and you can't punch down 0.77
00:00:25.200 and you know, that's a hack premise or that's a dick joke or whatever.
00:00:30.500 You're living in a world where there's now rules of comedy, which comedy was there to break all those rules.
00:00:38.560 Do you know what I mean?
00:00:39.340 And we've just gotten so far to what you can say and what you can't say. 0.98
00:00:45.800 We've been dying out on caviar every fucking day lately. 0.98
00:00:50.820 I want a McDonald's burger. 0.99
00:00:52.840 Do you know what I mean?
00:00:53.740 I'm getting tired of the snails, man. 1.00
00:00:56.000 It's just a fucking comedy show. 1.00
00:00:58.440 You know what I mean? 1.00
00:00:59.220 Like fucking, if you don't like them, don't go and fucking see them. 1.00
00:01:02.420 How about that, Matt? 1.00
00:01:03.880 But you're right.
00:01:04.840 Now, if you don't like a comedy show, oh my God.
00:01:07.920 Here comes a Facebook post.
00:01:09.680 Here comes a block.
00:01:11.540 I got to block you now.
00:01:13.360 I got to do all of that sort of stuff.
00:01:15.520 Trip advisor.
00:01:16.180 Trip advisor.
00:01:17.400 Four star, three and a half star comedian.
00:01:19.700 I've just gone to the point where, you know what?
00:01:23.280 I'm going to take everything everybody's scared of saying and I'm going to chuck it right in the face.
00:01:29.100 Hey Francis, do you like entrepreneurs?
00:01:41.800 Not really.
00:01:42.880 What do you mean?
00:01:43.520 What do you think we'd do at Trigonometry?
00:01:45.260 Annoy people on the internet, cause meltdowns on Twitter and destroy people with logic and facts.
00:01:52.180 Right, stop stealing my catchphrases.
00:01:54.340 It's facts and logic.
00:01:56.260 I'm just saying, being an entrepreneur is against my culture.
00:02:00.440 Why would I work hard when I could just lie on the beach in a sombrero shouting, aye, aye, aye?
00:02:07.300 Well, for those of you who aren't Venezuelan, you need to check out Rob Moore, the disruptive entrepreneur.
00:02:13.820 Rob Moore has been an entrepreneur for 16 years.
00:02:17.500 He's built seven companies, written 18 business and investing books, and now he helps creators, startups, scale-ups,
00:02:24.620 and anyone wanting to build assets, income, and freedom for information, education, and inspiration.
00:02:30.760 Rob has reached millions of people to be disruptive entrepreneurs and turn their passion into their profession.
00:02:38.200 As well as instant access to Rob's number one ranked disruptors podcast with the world's most disruptive guests and billionaires,
00:02:44.780 he's also giving away a digital financial toolkit to help you save half your salary and cost in a year.
00:02:51.020 Plus, keynote talks on building digital assets and multiple income streams digitally.
00:02:55.960 Go now to bit.ly slash robtoolkit, but be quick because this isn't usually free.
00:03:05.180 It's all at bit.ly slash robtoolkit, and you will then be directed to the disruptors podcast.
00:03:11.760 Plus, all this great info will help you destroy people with logic and facts.
00:03:18.160 Aye, aye, aye.
00:03:19.440 I give up.
00:03:21.620 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry.
00:03:24.400 I'm Francis Foster.
00:03:25.420 I'm Constantine Kishin.
00:03:26.800 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.
00:03:32.180 Our brilliant guest today is one of our favourite comedians here in the UK, Tom Stade.
00:03:36.320 Welcome to Trigonometry.
00:03:37.480 Thank you, Constantine.
00:03:38.620 Thank you, Francis.
00:03:41.040 I feel like I'm at a job.
00:03:44.340 What qualifies you to be here?
00:03:46.540 No, man, it's really great to have you on.
00:03:48.920 We obviously know exactly who you are,
00:03:50.560 but there'll be a lot of people in our audience who also know who you are and a lot who don't.
00:03:54.040 So who are you?
00:03:55.800 What's been your journey through life?
00:03:57.300 How are you here, Tom?
00:03:58.340 Okay.
00:03:58.880 Well, we'll start.
00:04:00.500 I'll try and sum it up pretty quick, man.
00:04:03.140 I was a comedian in Canada.
00:04:05.800 I started out in 1989 in a little place called Punchline's Gastown, which wasn't there.
00:04:14.900 From there, I worked my way up doing TV shows and all that sort of stuff in Canada,
00:04:22.400 whatever TV shows were there, whatever kind of show business was there.
00:04:28.180 And I think in the late 90s, after we went to L.A. and did a whole bunch of stuff there,
00:04:37.060 I was invited to come to the U.K. with a friend.
00:04:40.400 And I did a couple of guest spots in the U.K.
00:04:46.800 and believe me, the U.K. was not on my radar at that time.
00:04:52.420 And then I came home and I remember, when was 9-11?
00:04:58.580 Whenever 9-11 was.
00:05:00.140 Because I came home and I got, after doing the Jonglers, I don't know, 1.00
00:05:07.800 it used to be a big chain, but I mean, what a great chain it was.
00:05:13.680 It was like, it was awesome.
00:05:15.500 And then, yeah, and then I came back to Canada and I got this email with just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,
00:05:24.960 lots of work.
00:05:25.660 And the lucky part was, is my lovely lady, Trudy, turns out she was a British citizen, 0.89
00:05:37.160 which I did not know at the time, just so everybody can understand.
00:05:41.300 For the record.
00:05:41.840 And I did not marry into this country.
00:05:45.740 But she goes, Tom, you know my parents are English.
00:05:50.800 And I was like, oh, God, I thought they were Newfie.
00:05:53.840 And so she said, well, why don't we go over for a year?
00:06:00.000 Let's just go over for a year and see what happens.
00:06:03.680 And then next thing you know, we got over here.
00:06:07.320 All of a sudden, the TV shows came.
00:06:10.420 The Comedy Store, I think, was the very first one.
00:06:14.100 And so we did about four or five of those.
00:06:17.140 And then we did, oh, God, I can't remember.
00:06:20.840 But the guy that represented Bruce Forsyth, I think, Ian somebody, he had a bunch of shows.
00:06:28.420 And then we did Live at the Apollo, probably the most for your viewers.
00:06:36.080 We did a joke, no, not Live at the Apollo, Michael McIntyre's Roadshow.
00:06:43.020 Right.
00:06:43.700 And we did the very first one of those.
00:06:46.560 And I did a joke called The Meat Van on there.
00:06:50.300 And that just went ballistic.
00:06:53.280 Like, I've never seen, it was like writing a hit song.
00:06:59.280 And then we did, and then you did the Apollo.
00:07:02.820 And that went really well.
00:07:04.520 And then we did the Apollo.
00:07:06.240 And then a couple little things after that.
00:07:10.540 And, yeah, and then pretty much I'm now just here as a fixture
00:07:17.740 because I've decided to make this place my home.
00:07:21.440 How's that?
00:07:22.220 Yeah, and you're 15 specials deep.
00:07:25.480 Now, there's stuff we want to ask you about, which we'll get into later.
00:07:28.740 But actually, before we started, you were talking about Live at the Apollo
00:07:31.900 and you were saying doing Live at the Apollo in those days just changed your life, right?
00:07:36.440 Yeah.
00:07:36.640 That's how significant it was.
00:07:38.060 Yeah.
00:07:39.940 When before, because I don't think all of this stuff was happening when we did.
00:07:46.760 And I always think, like, I'm always that last guy through the Stargate before it closes.
00:07:54.600 Do you know what I mean?
00:07:55.560 And so I hopped through the Stargate.
00:07:59.380 And, like, that was a time where you could probably, it would be the equivalent of going viral back then.
00:08:08.180 Do you know what I mean?
00:08:09.040 Because the Apollo was the only show that was out there.
00:08:12.700 And Michael McIntyre was just on his ride up.
00:08:17.280 And now the Apollo is pretty much, you know, I don't know this for sure, okay?
00:08:26.160 Everything that I say is only an opinion.
00:08:29.040 But the Apollo now is more of a way, it's more of a thing on your resume than it is a pinnacle.
00:08:40.940 Yes.
00:08:41.120 You know, like, so, and the, and I think it's one of these closed clubs.
00:08:49.780 You know, I remember there's a guy named Anthony who's the producer there.
00:08:57.700 And I saw him at the Loft Bar one time.
00:08:59.940 And it was very funny to ask him to go, so when am I getting on the Apollo again?
00:09:05.420 And he said, well, I don't think that's going to happen.
00:09:07.620 We got a lot of box ticking exercises going on there.
00:09:12.280 And I was really shocked to hear that.
00:09:16.200 Do you know what I mean?
00:09:16.980 Because, you know, I'm all for diversity, but diversity also has to have that talent to it.
00:09:23.420 You know what I mean?
00:09:24.240 And I think, and this is, there's no criticism to anyone.
00:09:30.060 But again, if we're talking about old days till now, you know, I feel that, you know,
00:09:35.780 they always said it took 10 years to become a comedian.
00:09:40.180 But thanks to the internet and all of that sort of stuff, that time scale has now gone down to, like,
00:09:47.840 I see people on the Apollo that have been, there's a kid that I know that I'm not going to mention.
00:09:53.860 It's only been doing it three years.
00:09:55.420 And he's going to be on the next episode, which is fantastic.
00:09:59.360 You know what I mean?
00:09:59.960 And I've got no malice or anything like that.
00:10:04.120 But I'm like, wow.
00:10:06.680 It just shows you how the times have changed, how the industry has changed.
00:10:13.020 I mean, you hear of people going on shows because they have more followers than the TV show would have viewers.
00:10:23.280 I don't know if that's true, but it rings true to me.
00:10:25.980 Yeah.
00:10:26.340 Do you know what I mean?
00:10:27.360 So, yeah, to say to be on the Apollo now isn't the same.
00:10:33.560 I think a Netflix special is probably would be the equivalent of what the Apollo used to be, you know,
00:10:42.920 because also you're living in a world where you can go global just like that, you know what I mean?
00:10:50.780 And that is unheard of, man, for me.
00:10:53.720 That is like one of those things that all of a sudden, you know, like you got Danny Sloss,
00:10:59.760 who was just this kid, all of a sudden, one Netflix special, he's selling out in Texas for crying out loud.
00:11:07.400 So how great is that?
00:11:08.800 You know what I mean?
00:11:09.420 So there's opportunity to be had there.
00:11:12.720 And, you know, you got to kind of roll with these changes.
00:11:17.040 You can't, you know, you can't criticize.
00:11:21.700 You can try and understand them, but you can't criticize them because they're actually happening.
00:11:26.580 And if you can't move with those times, then, you know, you're like a jongler's comedian who's now not a comedian
00:11:35.640 because he could only do the jongler's model.
00:11:41.280 It's interesting what you're talking about because to me, I'm going to criticize it because comedians hate me and I hate them.
00:11:48.280 But for me, like that kid, three, look, you can't blame the kid for taking the opportunity.
00:11:56.080 Let's get that straight.
00:11:57.240 If any one of us had have been offered that, we would have gone for it.
00:12:00.740 Best of luck to whoever that kid is.
00:12:03.280 But you're not telling me after three years of gigging, he has got the chops to play that room.
00:12:09.920 Well, there's the double-edged sword, Francis.
00:12:13.220 I mean, okay, we're living in a world where two-minute bit is worth more than an hour.
00:12:22.420 Do you know what I mean?
00:12:23.820 So anybody can stumble on a two-minute awesome bit.
00:12:29.020 Anyone can stumble on a two-minute awesome bit.
00:12:31.660 Anyone can put that on the internet.
00:12:34.460 And all of a sudden, now, once you have that target on your back,
00:12:40.240 there's where the other side of what you're saying is, is that, oh, this kid is really good.
00:12:46.340 Now, will he be able to, that two minutes now has to become an hour.
00:12:51.360 Do you know what I mean?
00:12:52.440 So I understand what you're saying completely.
00:12:54.820 I mean, is this kid, whoever he is, a natural or did he luck out?
00:13:00.400 And because once you get that exposure, you know, it could be the death of you too, man.
00:13:06.780 You know, that's, I totally see exactly what you're saying.
00:13:10.620 And I agree with it.
00:13:12.000 But again, that's the world that we're in right now to be able to at least have that opportunity
00:13:21.040 to fail or die in such a short amount of time.
00:13:24.780 Yeah.
00:13:25.320 And it just seems to me, and again, this is just my perspective,
00:13:28.760 to me, like the people who pick that kid aren't respecting the art form.
00:13:35.220 Because I would say it takes...
00:13:37.740 He's angry, mate.
00:13:38.860 I don't know why.
00:13:40.320 I've told him to go to therapy.
00:13:42.320 I've done everything for him.
00:13:44.000 It doesn't work.
00:13:44.920 He's going to mention class in a second.
00:13:46.800 Okay.
00:13:47.580 Tell me what you're saying.
00:13:50.440 But look, to me, it's, they're not respecting the art form.
00:13:53.520 Because to me, it takes at least 10 years to become, to become, for most people.
00:13:59.020 Who picked the kid, though?
00:14:00.000 This is the thing.
00:14:01.240 Like, the kid was chosen because we're now in the internet world.
00:14:07.380 It wasn't the kid.
00:14:08.460 The kid's just putting out a TikTok video.
00:14:11.160 The kid's just putting out an Instagram video.
00:14:13.480 The kid's just taping his show on his iPhone at the monkey barrel.
00:14:20.240 He's doing a bit in his car about eyebrows.
00:14:24.060 Do you know what I mean?
00:14:25.220 And like, so it's, the people that are picking him,
00:14:29.120 if you're talking about like industry and that sort of stuff,
00:14:33.680 well, you know, the industry isn't picking TikTok people.
00:14:37.560 The industry is a very tight, closed business, man.
00:14:42.060 You're either these guys' friends.
00:14:43.920 If you're not friends with Dar O'Brien or one of these guys,
00:14:47.420 you're not going anywhere, man.
00:14:49.420 Do you know what I mean?
00:14:50.300 If you're not friends with Jimmy Carr, you're not going anywhere.
00:14:53.660 You're like, that's how tight this business is.
00:14:56.520 So again, I want to use the double-edged sword.
00:14:59.900 He, this kid, whoever's got the two minutes,
00:15:02.720 at least bypasses that circle.
00:15:06.560 You didn't have that option before, did you?
00:15:09.360 You didn't have that option.
00:15:10.560 So I agree with you.
00:15:11.780 There's a tremendous amount of opportunity right now as well.
00:15:14.740 I don't think Live at the Apollo is the opportunity, by the way,
00:15:17.660 because I know people have done it who, again,
00:15:20.640 they were less experienced than perhaps they would have wanted to be.
00:15:23.620 And they got, I don't know, a thousand Twitter followers off the back of it.
00:15:26.720 It's not life-changing anymore.
00:15:28.820 That's why I try not to talk about it, really,
00:15:31.800 because I don't think it's worth the discussion.
00:15:34.220 No.
00:15:34.280 What I do find interesting, though, Tom, is a friend of mine,
00:15:38.000 a mutual friend of ours, actually, another comic,
00:15:39.880 went to see your show in Edinburgh, which is just finished.
00:15:42.580 Right.
00:15:43.020 And he messaged me after going, 1.00
00:15:45.200 I think Tom's had enough of this shit. 1.00
00:15:47.800 Yeah. 1.00
00:15:48.040 And I don't know what shit he was talking about exactly, 0.99
00:15:50.800 but I was curious. 0.99
00:15:51.720 Yeah, I threw out every rule in the book is what I've done.
00:16:01.060 I've just, I got tired of listening to people going,
00:16:05.260 well, you can't punch up and you can't punch down. 0.92
00:16:08.280 And, you know, that's a hack premise or that's a dick joke or whatever.
00:16:12.680 And I was like, you know what, you know, you're now deciding what the masses want.
00:16:22.020 Do you know what I mean?
00:16:23.280 You're saying that we can't talk about this or this subject is off topic or whatever,
00:16:30.360 or you're going to get canceled.
00:16:31.900 There's so much just fear about what kind of material you're going to do.
00:16:38.060 You know what I mean?
00:16:38.880 And I've just gone to the point, well, you know what?
00:16:41.940 I'm going to take everything everybody's scared of saying,
00:16:45.000 and I'm going to chuck it right in their face. 0.99
00:16:48.420 And so I just decided, you know, give me a dick joke. 0.99
00:16:53.340 I'm going to tell it like Mike Wilmot. 0.98
00:16:56.140 I'm going to throw it out there.
00:16:58.480 You want an airplane joke?
00:17:00.160 Here comes an airplane joke.
00:17:01.360 You want me to talk like Dave Chappelle and tell you like it is,
00:17:04.980 I'll tell you like it is.
00:17:06.680 Do you know what I mean?
00:17:07.420 And I just felt that, you know, instead of trying to fit this mold,
00:17:13.580 I just decided, you know what, I'm going to be an all-around comedian
00:17:17.740 and not really listen to my peers anymore because I don't think they know what they're saying.
00:17:23.100 I think they've gotten to a point where they're not themselves anymore.
00:17:30.780 They're just trying to appease an audience.
00:17:33.960 Do you know what I mean?
00:17:34.600 Not even an audience, more their own peers, you know, 1.00
00:17:37.740 because they're so afraid to look stupid or whatever, you know what I mean? 0.95
00:17:41.940 And so to me, I've gotten to the point where I will just do any type of material out there 0.98
00:17:54.960 to the best of my ability.
00:17:56.900 And I love my strap-on joke, man. 0.99
00:17:59.340 I've got a fucking killer strap-on joke. 1.00
00:18:02.900 And I've also got a killer transgender, you know what I mean? 1.00
00:18:09.560 And that's where I'm at right now. 0.99
00:18:12.500 I'm just decided, you know, no more peers.
00:18:16.900 Tom, sorry to interrupt.
00:18:18.360 I'm just curious.
00:18:19.200 You talk about fear.
00:18:20.360 You talk about having a mold.
00:18:21.600 And these are all things, points that I would have pointed out in the past.
00:18:26.720 And the reaction always is you're making it up. 1.00
00:18:29.380 It's all bullshit. 1.00
00:18:30.540 No one's afraid. 1.00
00:18:31.500 No one's self-censoring in comedy.
00:18:33.280 No one's not saying.
00:18:34.780 But you, I hear out of you is that you think people are doing this
00:18:39.420 and you think they're doing it because they're worried about what other comedians will say.
00:18:43.140 You think that's what it is.
00:18:44.300 I'm positive that's what it is, man, to be able to go up on stage and to, you know, I don't know, dude.
00:18:56.000 Say you thought of something funny, but you thought, oh, God, you know, 0.89
00:19:00.320 what's fucking Jeff Norcott going to say or what's this guy going to say? 0.97
00:19:05.760 Because, you know, you're living, again, if I can go back, 0.99
00:19:10.580 you're living in a world where there's now rules of comedy,
00:19:15.520 which comedy was there to break all those rules.
00:19:18.660 Do you know what I mean?
00:19:19.640 And we've just gotten so far to what you can say and what you can't say.
00:19:25.300 And then once you break out of that and realize, you know, you're there to do a job
00:19:33.700 and the people that will like you will stay and the people that don't like you will stay.
00:19:37.960 And you know what, my peers, you know, if you like, they're in the same boat as me on that one.
00:19:45.000 I'm going, if you like it, hang out with me.
00:19:47.860 If you don't, don't hang out with me.
00:19:50.060 But I will, I'm not going to sit there and be in this box that you guys are trying to keep me in now. 0.98
00:20:01.080 And my first thing was, I want to tell every dick joke. 0.99
00:20:05.860 I want to tell every half fucking premise. 0.99
00:20:08.340 I want to do everything that will scare the fuck out of you. 0.99
00:20:12.940 But that audience will fucking die laughing because you got to understand that, you know, 0.99
00:20:19.520 we've been, how can I say this? 0.99
00:20:21.920 We've been dying out on caviar every fucking day lately. 0.99
00:20:26.380 I want a McDonald's burger. 0.99
00:20:28.600 You know what I mean?
00:20:29.580 I'm getting tired of the snails, man.
00:20:33.740 The snails is a good metaphor.
00:20:36.440 Tom, because when you came to this country, the comedy culture was completely different in the,
00:20:42.660 like you said, in sort of 2000, 2001.
00:20:45.980 It was completely different.
00:20:48.060 What was it like then?
00:20:49.440 And when did you notice the change?
00:20:51.700 When did you notice this kind of more, let's call it orthodox way of thinking or censorious way of thinking?
00:20:59.520 Okay.
00:20:59.940 I think that that all came when the, okay, that all came when the social media bubble showed up.
00:21:08.360 Once you started all of a sudden seeing all these clips of all these other comedians out there,
00:21:17.500 and I know, I know a lot of comedians sit there and go, I don't watch other comedians. 0.94
00:21:23.060 I don't watch other people's fucking specials because I don't want to step on anybody's thing. 0.96
00:21:29.100 But it's impossible not to. 0.99
00:21:31.220 Yeah.
00:21:31.380 You know, and the problem was, is back then, you didn't watch a lot of people's specials.
00:21:38.660 Back then, you watched who you were on with and all that sort of stuff.
00:21:42.420 But now, now the problem is, is that you do have all these comedians.
00:21:48.040 It's like, it's kind of like the way a high school girl would flip through Cosmo magazine.
00:21:55.240 You know, now you're living in this world where you're trying to compete with impossible standards
00:22:03.580 because how can you not watch every comedian putting his thing on the thing?
00:22:10.260 How can you not watch that and not compare yourself to it?
00:22:13.640 You know what I mean?
00:22:14.440 And you feel like that fat little girl reading Cosmopolitan going, I can never achieve this stuff.
00:22:21.200 But yet you still try, which makes you, in a way, a bit of a phony because you don't believe in yourself.
00:22:29.620 You know what I mean?
00:22:30.660 So I think that back then you had no choice to believe in yourself.
00:22:36.100 And that's where the comedy came from.
00:22:38.980 And now you're sitting there, you're trying to compete with the rest of the world, 0.98
00:22:44.140 which is just an impossible fucking task, man. 0.98
00:22:47.360 And it puts a lot of pressure on you. 0.98
00:22:52.040 And so when you say, what's the difference?
00:22:54.660 The difference is, is that it's hard to believe in yourself when you have all this other stuff going on
00:23:01.860 and you're trying to compete.
00:23:04.140 So you're trying to, you know, just stay in a certain line of a certain topic, you know,
00:23:11.500 or whatever, where I don't think you had that back in 2001, 2002.
00:23:18.760 Definitely didn't have it in the 80s.
00:23:20.860 Definitely didn't have it in the 90s.
00:23:22.980 You know what I mean?
00:23:23.780 But come 2010, man, it was like, you know, everybody's just that, you know,
00:23:31.400 fat little girl watching Supermodels on TV all the time and just sort of going, 0.52
00:23:36.240 I want to be like her instead of wanting to be you.
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00:25:56.840 She took everything.
00:25:57.740 When did you feel like things start to change with, you know, what was acceptable to say or the correct way to...
00:26:07.560 Oh, like the death of the sexual assault jokes and rape jokes and all of that sort of stuff.
00:26:13.940 Because I remember when I started in 2009, it was like, if you didn't have one, if you didn't have a rape joke, it was like, what's wrong with you?
00:26:22.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:26:22.780 We're all doing it.
00:26:23.680 And then suddenly...
00:26:25.680 You know, that's a real tough one for me to answer, Francis.
00:26:30.880 And it's not that I'm a fear of it.
00:26:32.860 Because when I think of that, I think of book burning when you're talking about what you can say and what you can't say came in.
00:26:44.160 Okay, and is that what we're talking about, just so I make sure, when all of a sudden that ain't funny anymore, that ain't...
00:26:52.580 Again, that goes where society went.
00:26:55.640 All of a sudden, you're seeing all that stuff on TV for real.
00:26:59.440 It isn't just a joke anymore.
00:27:01.020 It's like proper real stuff going on.
00:27:04.160 But in its defense, and I really mean this, and this is coming from my mother, of all people, it's like Footloose.
00:27:15.360 Do you know what I mean?
00:27:16.080 Yep.
00:27:16.200 Hey, you can't tell rape jokes around here no more? 1.00
00:27:19.540 Hey, boy, watch yourself.
00:27:20.960 You know, there's a town dance.
00:27:22.560 And not saying that it is cool, but my mom said it the best.
00:27:26.140 Anytime you can't show the absurdity of it, anytime you can't...
00:27:30.980 Because that's all they were.
00:27:32.260 Like, everybody thinks...
00:27:33.880 This word joke is an interesting thing.
00:27:37.400 Do you know what I mean?
00:27:38.220 Because these subjects aren't jokes.
00:27:40.960 Do you know what I mean?
00:27:41.600 A joke to me is two guys walk into a bar.
00:27:45.560 And you put that beside any of those words, all of a sudden, yeah, it cheapens this out.
00:27:52.000 But if you're sitting there going, I want to show you the absurdity of this, this topic.
00:27:58.680 And that's what most really great comedians can do from George Carlin.
00:28:03.500 But the problem is that the word joke just takes it out.
00:28:09.300 Do you know what I mean?
00:28:10.400 And so the problem is, is once you hide all these jokes away, you know what I mean?
00:28:15.980 You put them in the dark.
00:28:17.120 They just grow stronger and stronger and stronger.
00:28:19.840 And the only way to actually bring...
00:28:24.540 You've got to shine some light on them and put some clown shoes and clown nose on that nightmare of a thing to show that it's the absurdity.
00:28:34.060 So in actual fact, by not talking about it and showing the absurdity behind it, you know, you actually probably influence more people to do it.
00:28:47.000 Do you know what I mean? 0.54
00:28:47.760 Because you don't talk about it for the ridiculousness that it is, man. 0.97
00:28:53.980 Go for it.
00:28:54.880 I was going to say, like, I started probably a little bit later in, like, 2014, I think.
00:29:00.440 Okay.
00:29:00.700 I started doing stand-up then, and by that point, you wouldn't have heard anyone doing a rape joke on the circuit.
00:29:06.220 No.
00:29:06.760 And I don't feel like my life is poorer for it.
00:29:10.480 I'm not sitting there going, oh, my God, you know, we lost the great material about rape.
00:29:14.620 I agree.
00:29:15.120 That wasn't a thing that I felt.
00:29:16.660 I'm not defending it, by the way.
00:29:17.860 No, none of us are.
00:29:19.100 No, no.
00:29:19.460 I'm just, I'm trying to also protect you a little bit because there'll be people watching this.
00:29:23.980 Of course there will.
00:29:24.980 Yeah.
00:29:25.180 This is where Jeff said I've lost it.
00:29:27.180 That's my opinion.
00:29:28.320 Yeah.
00:29:28.500 This is what he was saying.
00:29:30.320 I, you know what, no, fine, if you don't want to hear it, but yeah.
00:29:36.020 Yeah.
00:29:36.540 And so I want to protect you a little bit because I think what you were talking about is it's important not to have rules in comedy so people can be free to be creative.
00:29:46.600 But that often gets misinterpreted deliberately by people who want to disagree with us.
00:29:52.300 As we don't want to have rules in comedy because you want to do an hour set about rape.
00:29:58.120 No. 0.98
00:29:58.600 That's ridiculous. 0.99
00:29:59.120 That's ridiculous. 0.99
00:30:00.120 I know, but that, but that is the way that people mischaracterize these things sometimes.
00:30:05.440 So, but the freedom that you're talking about, you know, before the social media comes in, it's fascinating because it's, I think it's really interesting that comedians are self-censoring.
00:30:17.400 They are.
00:30:18.400 They are.
00:30:19.400 To protect themselves from the opinions of other comedians, given the fact that that's not who we're playing to.
00:30:27.320 No.
00:30:28.060 As a comedian or as a YouTube show host or podcast or whatever, we're playing to the people watching this, right?
00:30:34.480 That's our job.
00:30:35.660 Yeah.
00:30:35.800 It's not our job to be liked by other comedians.
00:30:39.000 And yet that seems to be, according to you at least, the direction that it's gone in.
00:30:44.060 Of course, I believe that.
00:30:46.300 Again, I want to say any one of my opinions can change.
00:30:50.740 I'm old enough to know to not stick.
00:30:53.700 But for now, for where I'm at, that's how I feel until somebody comes along and explains it a different way to me and can go, oh, I totally can see that.
00:31:05.900 I'm not inflexible on any of these things.
00:31:09.260 But yes, I do agree because you're, and most of the comedians live in this world called cancel culture, which is such a new, it's a new thing too.
00:31:21.400 Do you know what I mean?
00:31:22.140 Like just one joke, I mean, that can change all of a sudden this whole body of work you do.
00:31:28.100 One joke can all of a sudden wipe all that stuff out.
00:31:31.420 A bar, of course, illegal activity of any kind.
00:31:35.660 Do you know what I mean?
00:31:36.240 Yeah, yeah.
00:31:36.680 That is, that's a whole different thing.
00:31:38.540 But what I'm talking about is, oh, so you made an attempt at doing something a little bit more risque, a little bit more dangerous.
00:31:47.460 And that's why you're seeing comedians now asking people not to bring their cameras in on a working night where you're trying to work out stuff.
00:31:59.080 And I mean, that's where we're at now.
00:32:02.580 That, again, that just shows the fear of everything.
00:32:05.340 And it's like, it's like people just do, how can I say it, paycheck comedy, I guess.
00:32:13.180 Paycheck comedy would be the best way to do it where you're really writing things that are there not to offend anyone.
00:32:27.080 Do you know what I mean?
00:32:28.640 And that's where me and Patrice O'Neill would agree that that just isn't comedy.
00:32:35.380 That's selling products.
00:32:37.460 Do you know what I mean?
00:32:38.580 Like, if you pleased everybody in that audience, you know what I mean?
00:32:43.920 Then I've also got this for sale sponsored by, you know, whereas the best comedy that you ever had,
00:32:53.880 do you know there's people walking out going, I can't believe he said that, you know?
00:32:58.600 But again, we're back to being subjective and all that.
00:33:03.700 Do you think society has changed as well, though, Tom?
00:33:05.920 Of course it has.
00:33:06.680 Because I guess, I think part of the reason is 20 years ago, people would walk out of a comedy club
00:33:12.600 and they'd be like, I can't believe he said that.
00:33:14.540 Yeah.
00:33:14.900 Let's go for a pint.
00:33:16.220 Whereas now it's like, I can't believe he said that.
00:33:19.420 Let's go on social media.
00:33:20.600 You know, what do you want me to say after that?
00:33:25.080 Because that's exactly what happens, man. 1.00
00:33:27.660 That is exactly, you, your stupid ass opinion now can be translated to the world 1.00
00:33:34.760 to be part of the content pollution that is out there. 1.00
00:33:38.520 Do you know what I mean?
00:33:39.360 Like, it's just, it's amazing.
00:33:43.300 Back in the day, like, I wholeheartedly agree with you.
00:33:47.420 I don't know how I can add to what you're about to say, because you're right.
00:33:51.320 You would walk out and the most people you could talk to was seven or eight guys. 1.00
00:33:58.260 And four of them would go, shut up and quit being such a fucking weenie, man. 1.00
00:34:02.660 It's just a fucking comedy show. 1.00
00:34:05.060 You know what I mean? 1.00
00:34:05.960 Like, fucking, if you don't like them, don't go and fucking see them. 1.00
00:34:09.040 How about that, man? 1.00
00:34:10.560 But you're right.
00:34:11.340 Like, now, if you don't like a comedy show, oh, my God, here comes a Facebook post.
00:34:16.360 Here comes a block.
00:34:18.180 I got to block you now.
00:34:20.000 I got to do all of that sort of stuff.
00:34:22.160 Trip advisor.
00:34:22.820 Trip advisor.
00:34:24.060 Four star, three and a half star comedian.
00:34:27.020 Yeah, man.
00:34:28.060 So I don't know how I can, I'm only going to agree with you on that one.
00:34:33.860 Good.
00:34:34.040 That's what I like.
00:34:34.880 Just do that.
00:34:35.740 That's fine.
00:34:36.200 I can't, I don't want to argue that point because it's very valid.
00:34:40.520 And like I said, this, how do you change with this world being the dinosaur that I am?
00:34:47.440 Do you know what I mean? 0.98
00:34:48.300 It's like, what fucking Trudy said it the best. 0.98
00:34:52.580 It's like, every time you go on stage, it's like watching a 90s comedian do a guest spot. 0.99
00:34:59.900 Like when she saw Rick Astley on the Foo Fighters, she goes, that's you, Tom.
00:35:06.200 And I'm like, well, welcome to Jurassic Park.
00:35:10.640 You know?
00:35:11.240 Yes.
00:35:11.660 So that's, yeah, yeah.
00:35:13.060 It's just the whole scene has just changed.
00:35:15.460 So the real question is, okay, the pendulum always swings too far one way.
00:35:23.740 Do you know what I mean?
00:35:24.560 Yes.
00:35:24.960 And if you're a Buddhist or any of those things, you know nothing stays the same.
00:35:30.940 Um, so for what I, what I like, what I would like to think is that even though we are in
00:35:38.920 this world, we, even though we're in this world of, um, you know, and, and before I even say
00:35:45.340 this, I also got to give credit to the comedians that aren't playing that part.
00:35:49.120 Do you know what I mean?
00:35:50.020 Because there's a lot of young comedians out there.
00:35:53.680 I don't want to brush them all in the same because there are some really great young comedians 1.00
00:35:59.260 that are also in my boat going, fuck this shit. 1.00
00:36:02.700 I'm not dealing with that. 1.00
00:36:04.140 You know what I mean?
00:36:04.920 I'm not doing that.
00:36:06.020 So I don't want to do it all together, but it is safer going the other route, you know?
00:36:11.660 So, and, but, um, there's going to be a backlash to whatever's going on right now.
00:36:17.820 Do you know what I mean?
00:36:18.820 Do you, do you, do you can't, you can't not think that it, what, it's just going to keep
00:36:23.240 on going that way.
00:36:25.640 You know what I mean?
00:36:26.340 Because people will eventually get bored of it.
00:36:29.480 And you know who the people will be the next generation?
00:36:32.320 Because I also feel, I also feel that every generation, my, this is the backlash to my
00:36:39.060 generation.
00:36:40.220 Do you know what I mean?
00:36:41.020 This is, I don't actually explain.
00:36:43.120 Well, for all the times, you know, like, um, when you, for all the things we were talking
00:36:50.640 about, the, the kids have to talk about something different.
00:36:54.440 Do you know what I mean?
00:36:55.140 To make a name for themselves.
00:36:56.680 This is a man who's a father of two kids in their twenties.
00:36:59.460 Yeah.
00:37:00.200 Yeah, man.
00:37:02.060 Fortunately, I didn't get that backlash.
00:37:03.940 But I think the comedians like the, um, oh, who would I say?
00:37:13.000 The Bo Burnham's maybe, or whatever.
00:37:16.140 Um, they're, they're the backlash to our, our thing.
00:37:21.280 Because you have to, how, how are you going to be the same as your dad?
00:37:25.780 Do you know what I mean?
00:37:26.600 You have to do the exact opposite of your dad just to get noticed.
00:37:31.640 So I think that also plays a big part in what's going on nowadays.
00:37:37.420 Because, you know, whereas we grew up on Richard Pryor and all those guys and whatever, Billy
00:37:43.960 Conley for this country.
00:37:46.380 Yeah, for us, it was Carlin and Hicks and people like that as well.
00:37:48.720 Yeah, of course.
00:37:49.700 Okay, okay. 0.99
00:37:50.500 But for the average viewer, they, every time I say Carlin, they don't know who the fuck 0.99
00:37:55.900 he is out in the UK. 0.99
00:37:57.040 And I'm like, what?
00:37:58.500 Which also shows you that he didn't even, the greatest comedian didn't really even go
00:38:03.420 global, man.
00:38:04.620 Whereas, uh, you know, Ali Wong.
00:38:08.000 Everybody knows, you know, nothing against Ali Wong.
00:38:10.500 I'm just, we're just talking about the, the, uh, oh God, I hate when I lose words, but
00:38:16.900 the advertisement, something in that, right?
00:38:22.340 Yeah.
00:38:23.920 Uh, she, her PR. 0.64
00:38:26.480 Yeah. 1.00
00:38:26.920 Fucking crazy. 0.99
00:38:27.940 Whereas George Carlin, you know, stayed in America, but it was great. 0.99
00:38:32.360 Um, uh, the backlash to them was, was like, well, they were the backlash to the Bob
00:38:40.280 New Hearts and all that sort of stuff.
00:38:42.400 And then for the longest time it was there.
00:38:44.500 And then, then we got to Evening at the Improv.
00:38:47.100 I don't know if you ever remember that show.
00:38:48.820 And then all of a sudden it started to become a little more TV clean, which is where we showed
00:38:53.240 up.
00:38:54.000 You know what I mean?
00:38:54.640 We still wanted to be like them, but you know, um, and then all of a sudden we probably
00:38:59.780 took it maybe a little too far to go back to the, uh, the, yeah, the, no, the, the, the
00:39:07.100 topics and all that sort of stuff.
00:39:07.800 Oh, right, right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:39:08.960 We maybe, we maybe did take it a little too far because you can only bring that so far
00:39:14.120 too.
00:39:14.740 And I think, and then, then these guys go, well, you know, I'm just going to be the
00:39:19.160 cleanest comic that ever was and be able to do all this sort of stuff.
00:39:22.720 But what I'm trying to say is eventually that the next generation of comedians will be bored
00:39:29.680 of that and we'll probably go back to where we are.
00:39:33.540 Tom, it's such a good point.
00:39:36.340 And maybe that will happen.
00:39:38.020 I mean, you were involved in not, not a cancellation, but you used to write jokes for Frankie Boyle
00:39:44.900 show Tramadol night and that had its own share of scandals.
00:39:49.920 I remember one that went all over the newspaper, banned this filth, et cetera.
00:39:54.680 So what was it like to be in the center of that?
00:39:57.940 Um, you're talking the Tramadol nights, Francis?
00:40:02.080 That was, that was probably the, I would attribute that to the beginning of it when it was him
00:40:12.180 and Katie Price had the, I know what you're talking about, the argument. 0.99
00:40:16.760 So if you explain it to the viewers.
00:40:19.040 Frankie Boyle, believe it or not, if you don't know who he is, very, he loves, he's one of the
00:40:24.580 last loves, uh, just saying things for, you know, he's a very intelligent man, very intelligent
00:40:31.340 man, great joke writer, but he's, he's definitely not afraid of backlash in any, I remember him
00:40:38.440 actually telling me conflict is better than agreement, you know what I mean, especially
00:40:43.660 in conflict, because if you're doing comedy and, you know, you just walk out and go, oh,
00:40:50.620 that was a nice show.
00:40:51.880 You're going to forget about the dude.
00:40:53.320 But if you, again, you go out and go, all of a sudden conflict, you're going to remember
00:40:58.120 the person's name, right?
00:40:59.780 So he did a joke, obviously, about Harvey.
00:41:04.860 I have a theory that Jordan married a cage fighter because she needed someone strong enough 1.00
00:41:10.480 to stop Harvey from fucking her. 1.00
00:41:12.120 Ridiculous. 1.00
00:41:17.240 It was obviously ridiculous, but you also have a fame hungry monster on the other side named 0.98
00:41:24.800 Katie Price who saw an opportunity to go, oh my God, this'll put me in the papers because
00:41:31.800 I don't, I don't know her personally or anything like that, but I, people's actions speak louder
00:41:40.200 than words.
00:41:40.860 And if you want to debate me on Katie Price's actions over her lifetime, I think she's a bit
00:41:48.020 of a fame hungry monster.
00:41:50.860 A bit of an attention seeker.
00:41:53.080 A bit of an attention seeker.
00:41:55.220 And normally a joke like that would have just flown by for Frankie, but he caught the attention
00:42:01.740 of this and all of a sudden that became one of the biggest stories of that time.
00:42:10.500 And I think it ignited the, wow, actually I've never thought about that until just now.
00:42:19.020 So here's my first opinion on it before it gets changed throughout the years is I think
00:42:24.920 that would have been one of the first times that people saw that you could get outraged at
00:42:31.560 a joke and stop something because after that they canceled this wonderful dark show that
00:42:39.680 was just getting its foot.
00:42:40.980 I'm not saying it was the greatest.
00:42:42.740 Do you know what I mean?
00:42:43.820 I'm not saying that Tramadol Nights was the greatest show ever, but it did, it had the potential
00:42:49.860 to be like the next young ones or whatever because the sketches were just outrageous.
00:42:58.180 You had Jim Muir, I can't even remember the other dude, which is bad, but Jim Muir and
00:43:03.080 this very talented, I think he was Burniston, Burniston guy, he was in with him, and then Frankie
00:43:08.980 and me, and it had the potential to be this wonderful, offensive, taboo kind of, you know,
00:43:17.100 all right, let's close the curtains and watch, smoke a big joint, you know, but she was really,
00:43:26.300 I can't think of anyone before that who attacked a joke.
00:43:30.760 So I think that might have, if I could throw in my how many marbles are in the jar theory,
00:43:39.900 I think that might have been one of the first outrage to show people that, oh, if I get
00:43:48.620 really offended at a joke, I can actually do something about it, you know, so.
00:43:52.620 Did the show get canceled?
00:43:53.820 It got canceled because of that, man.
00:43:55.560 And they, they, she sued.
00:43:58.180 She's, I, I don't know all the details because when you got a show like that, the one thing
00:44:04.700 about it is that Frankie's the hit.
00:44:07.380 You know what I mean?
00:44:08.180 I'm not the hit.
00:44:09.040 They're not coming after me and they're not going after Jim and they're not going after
00:44:12.560 Burniston guy.
00:44:14.240 They're going after Frankie.
00:44:16.200 Do you know what I mean?
00:44:16.900 And I think she's, she was going to sue them and, and, you know, when you got executives
00:44:21.460 going, well, I don't need this kind of hassle if I can bend, you know, but.
00:44:25.560 But in a way it also helped because Tramadol Nights became like a little one season cult
00:44:31.560 show that, that's just out there with some really shitty sketches, like really shitty sketches.
00:44:39.820 Actually a former guest of the show the other day for an unrelated reason sent me a clip
00:44:45.400 from that, which is the professor who, who wanks, who wanks himself back in time. 0.88
00:44:53.640 I remember the wife jerking Jesus off on the cross. 0.98
00:45:02.180 Yeah.
00:45:02.580 He takes the students back in time and only half of them come back because anyway.
00:45:07.920 It's so funny.
00:45:09.560 But again, sorry.
00:45:11.640 Of its time too.
00:45:12.960 Yeah.
00:45:13.380 Yeah.
00:45:13.540 Well, is it really though?
00:45:16.540 Like, I mean, some of the sketches, I think some of them will, I mean, come on, man, just 0.99
00:45:22.880 a kid jerking Jesus off on the cross to get back to like fucking his DeLorean to get back 0.98
00:45:32.400 to the time was, I mean, it's so outrageous and ridiculous that anyone who took it seriously, 1.00
00:45:38.980 you know what I mean?
00:45:40.360 I don't know what to say to you, you know, but, but yeah, definitely.
00:45:43.940 Oh my God.
00:45:44.680 I haven't thought about that in years.
00:45:46.520 Constantine.
00:45:46.840 I don't remember that.
00:45:50.400 Sorry.
00:45:51.100 No, no.
00:45:51.560 Yeah.
00:45:51.920 So I think to the point of, yeah, I think that might've sparked off the outrage, the
00:45:58.160 offensive culture that, that came after that for this country.
00:46:03.820 I don't know what was going on in Canada or I don't think the Frankie Boyle, Katie Price
00:46:08.860 fight hit Canada, but it definitely hit here because then you'd have all the stars like
00:46:14.800 the, the, the, whatever, what's her name?
00:46:16.820 Cheryl, who's it?
00:46:17.920 Cheryl Cole.
00:46:18.460 Cheryl Cole and all that getting involved and going, yeah, you shouldn't bring people's
00:46:23.540 kids into this and you shouldn't do this and you shouldn't do that.
00:46:27.320 And then all of a sudden the debate was created and the show got canceled, but Katie got more
00:46:34.360 famous and Frankie got more famous.
00:46:36.060 So in a way they mutually helped each other, but in a way they might have started the, the
00:46:44.260 outrage, the, the, the, the offense, uh, you can do something about it, uh, the times
00:46:50.080 that we're living in.
00:46:51.280 And do you, do you?
00:46:52.500 I'm not sure I believe that, but it sounds really good.
00:46:56.420 Hey Francis, if you were a member of the public, would you like the opportunity to ask incredible
00:47:02.000 guests like Bill Burr, Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, Adam Carolla, Brett Weinstein, John
00:47:08.260 Barnes, Douglas Murray, Nigel Farage and Lionel Shriver, your own questions.
00:47:13.260 You bet I would.
00:47:14.780 And what do you think the best way to do that would be?
00:47:17.940 Uh, probably stalking, mate.
00:47:19.640 You'd have to corner them in the supermarket, probably run near like the sort of frozen
00:47:24.400 food aisles and then just bark questions at them before they can escape.
00:47:29.040 Uh, not the American ones as they have guns and you'd have to be extra careful with the 1.00
00:47:33.440 females as that's how I got in trouble last time. 1.00
00:47:37.220 Can you really imagine you're going to get Douglas Murray near the frozen food aisle?
00:47:40.400 If you want to ask our incredible guest questions and have access to phenomenal behind the scenes
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00:49:12.220 See you there, guys.
00:49:13.440 Tom, and do you find yourself, did you find yourself after that self-censoring more and
00:49:19.600 more with your material?
00:49:22.380 Not really.
00:49:26.060 Because, again, I wasn't in the thing.
00:49:28.280 And I'm not, I'm not an offensive comedian, Francis.
00:49:32.760 Like, do you know what I mean?
00:49:33.960 You are a little bit.
00:49:35.160 I can write offensive jokes.
00:49:37.280 Which are brilliant.
00:49:38.100 You're genuinely one of my favorite comics.
00:49:39.980 I mean, I've seen you go on stage, Tom, and talk about, say, are there any men here in
00:49:45.460 their 50s?
00:49:46.280 Yeah.
00:49:46.860 Are there any men here in their 50s with an 18-year-old daughter?
00:49:50.940 And they went, yeah.
00:49:51.900 And he went, do you ever sometimes look at their friends?
00:49:54.760 And look, I was the emcee at that gig.
00:49:59.140 I was in the back dying with laughter.
00:50:01.820 Everyone was dying with laughter.
00:50:03.840 There were a few women who maybe didn't appreciate it. 1.00
00:50:06.800 Of course there were, man.
00:50:08.060 But my daughter liked that joke. 0.98
00:50:09.520 So let's just say that right now.
00:50:11.740 My daughter was the one that said, I remember having to, I remember having, I wanted to
00:50:17.860 use a funny name.
00:50:19.300 I wanted to use a funny name.
00:50:20.820 And I kept trying to think of all her friends.
00:50:22.660 And Natalca was the funniest. 0.96
00:50:24.620 Because it just had that oomph to it.
00:50:26.920 You know what I mean?
00:50:27.920 Yeah.
00:50:28.060 It's funny you say that.
00:50:32.400 Because I'm also the person that wrote Meat Van, which is the least offensive.
00:50:37.940 But I mean, I don't want to be a Dave Chappelle.
00:50:41.920 And I don't want to be a Bill Burrs or these guys.
00:50:46.460 And they're all great.
00:50:47.580 You know what I mean?
00:50:48.300 But I want to be, like, well-rounded.
00:50:51.800 Do you know?
00:50:52.220 I want to be able to step on both sides of the fence.
00:50:56.860 I want to be able to say, you know what?
00:50:58.880 I got a kid's show coming up.
00:51:01.120 You know?
00:51:01.540 I want to go in.
00:51:02.640 And I want to, I don't want to tell them about finding your daughter's friend.
00:51:07.900 You're not allowed to find your daughter's friend.
00:51:10.360 That's sexy.
00:51:12.060 But, you know, it's just one of those things that I don't want to pigeonhole who I am.
00:51:21.040 Do you know what I mean?
00:51:21.620 I don't want to be known as an offensive comedian.
00:51:25.200 Because that's just wrong.
00:51:28.380 Do you know what I mean?
00:51:29.100 I want to be known as a guy who could tell an offensive joke.
00:51:32.880 Ooh, Tom's told something a little risque.
00:51:36.640 But he's also, you know, he's also talked about Argos for crying out loud, man.
00:51:42.300 You know?
00:51:42.620 So, but I don't mind.
00:51:45.380 Where we're talking about, Francis, is I don't mind going there.
00:51:49.380 If that's what you're saying.
00:51:50.940 I don't mind going there.
00:51:52.220 But I definitely don't want it to be labeled, oh, here comes Tom, the offensive comedian.
00:51:58.680 I don't want that either.
00:52:00.140 You know what I mean?
00:52:00.700 I want him to go, oh, man.
00:52:02.400 That guy had a, like, there was something for everybody in there, man.
00:52:05.720 But to me, that marks out the best comedians.
00:52:08.620 If you think about Bill Hicks, everyone always remembers his political bits.
00:52:12.040 But he also remembered the bit about the Gideon Bible.
00:52:14.540 Like, who are the Gideons? 0.99
00:52:16.260 You've never seen one, never met one, yet they're all over the fucking world. 0.98
00:52:19.160 Like, it's a great bit of observational material. 0.99
00:52:21.960 Of course.
00:52:22.640 You know?
00:52:23.000 And to me, those are the best comedians.
00:52:25.200 I think that now this kind of need to categorize everybody kind of demeans the art form, reduces it.
00:52:32.240 You know?
00:52:32.900 What is offensive to one is not offensive to another.
00:52:35.120 You've got to, that, there's the, there's the, you, the word subjective, man, is so prominent
00:52:45.440 in art.
00:52:47.020 There is no, come on, man, of course.
00:52:51.340 You talk about Bill Hicks.
00:52:53.000 I can remember the first time I saw him.
00:52:55.180 Wasn't even on, it was on Rodney Dangerfield Special.
00:52:58.500 I was in a town so small, in a hotel, I dialed nine, and I got the Elmer Dinkley residence.
00:53:04.380 Do you remember that one?
00:53:06.660 Do you know that one?
00:53:07.700 Do you see?
00:53:08.120 So you're right.
00:53:08.920 He does.
00:53:09.480 And then all of a sudden he launches into advertisement.
00:53:12.860 Yeah.
00:53:13.060 You know?
00:53:13.260 So he does.
00:53:14.060 He does have that range to him that he could do.
00:53:17.440 But the more he does one thing, the more people want that thing.
00:53:21.760 And it's hard for him to stay true to, you know, you can't just launch out on an attack
00:53:29.000 on advertising.
00:53:30.620 I see what you're saying, Bill.
00:53:31.960 No, you don't get what I'm saying.
00:53:33.200 Oh, that's the angle there, Bill.
00:53:34.520 I don't see what you're saying.
00:53:35.380 And then him going, so I was in a hotel so small, right after that.
00:53:41.400 It's got to, you know, so maybe you grow into who you are, you know, you give the people
00:53:47.080 what they want.
00:53:48.280 And I'm not sure if that's the way I would like to go.
00:53:52.720 You know what I mean?
00:53:53.340 And I don't want to just, like you say, go, hey, there's, oh, if people really like that,
00:53:58.280 I should do more of that.
00:53:59.480 And no, I got to stay true to, yeah, stay true to all aspects.
00:54:07.420 It's good to be able to write all different kinds of jokes.
00:54:10.260 Everybody must agree on that, man.
00:54:12.440 You know what I mean?
00:54:13.140 And I'm pretty sure even these, the one thing I do know about comedians, even these young
00:54:19.580 ones, they do have dark jokes.
00:54:22.100 Yeah.
00:54:22.340 But they just won't tell them on stage.
00:54:26.540 They'll tell them at the table in the comedy club going, hey, man, I just, I don't do
00:54:31.320 sex.
00:54:33.200 That's kind of one of the funny things to me and Francis, because we get criticized by
00:54:38.160 comedians a lot for the things that we say.
00:54:41.480 And yet we're only saying the exact same things they're saying in the car on the way home.
00:54:46.840 Yeah.
00:54:47.400 Do you know what I mean?
00:54:48.180 Of course you do, man.
00:54:49.220 Of course I do.
00:54:50.100 That's all that we're saying and nothing more.
00:54:51.940 But listen, coming back to Edinburgh and coming back to, you were talking about, you know,
00:54:56.060 you want to, I actually, I suspect that what you're really talking about is you want to
00:54:59.840 be authentic to who Tom Stade is.
00:55:01.300 You want to be you rather than trying to be somebody else.
00:55:05.140 To let the audience guide you in what kind of material you're going to do.
00:55:08.520 What I find weird though is obviously while you were in Edinburgh, Jerry Sadowitz, his show
00:55:16.060 gets pulled and I'm going like, if you've seen Jerry Sadowitz ever, if you've read the
00:55:23.040 title of a show, if you've read the promo, like you cannot possibly be under any illusions
00:55:29.660 that this is a guy who's deliberately offensive and that's the act, right?
00:55:35.560 It's the act.
00:55:36.700 And yet even that, like he does everything he can to make sure people understand I'm an
00:55:42.880 offensive comedian.
00:55:43.820 His show is called Not For Anyone.
00:55:46.240 I don't, you can get clear on that.
00:55:48.300 And yet somehow people still will come to his show.
00:55:51.380 They'll get upset.
00:55:52.400 They'll complain to the venue.
00:55:53.460 Maybe it was the staff at the venue, I suspect, that complained.
00:55:56.680 Oh, I got, yeah, I can tell.
00:55:58.460 Oh, oh, oh, oh.
00:56:00.260 Dude, before we go into that, yeah, the staff, when I was on my last tour, I played a place 0.96
00:56:08.820 called the Glee Club and I used the word appropriately, I used the word gay and retard just because it's 1.00
00:56:18.060 from, but in context, of course. 0.54
00:56:21.020 Do you know what I mean?
00:56:21.600 And I was never, not going out on the street and, you know, whatever, this.
00:56:28.140 And yeah, I had the staff complaints.
00:56:31.180 So now, and the next day they said, Tom, can we not use those two words on tonight's show
00:56:39.120 because whatever, we're LGBTQ friendly here.
00:56:45.040 And I'm like, are you kidding me?
00:56:47.240 You think I'm not, my daughter's a dancer.
00:56:50.480 You know what I mean? 1.00
00:56:51.680 Are you fucking out of your fucking mind? 1.00
00:56:53.820 I've been to parties with two kids that were breaking up, talking to these two boys going, 1.00
00:56:59.280 you're meant for each other, man.
00:57:00.760 What are you doing?
00:57:01.560 You know what I mean?
00:57:02.160 Like, like, just because your topics or whatever, it doesn't, what do you think? 1.00
00:57:07.560 What do you think I'm gay bashing out of your fucking mind, man? 0.99
00:57:12.460 But with Jerry, Jerry was an interesting one over the festival because, yes, he is offensive. 1.00
00:57:21.320 There's no doubt about it.
00:57:22.540 There's not, what you said, not for anyone, perfect title, everything's said.
00:57:29.260 But what I heard was it got into the racial hatred area.
00:57:40.340 You know what I mean?
00:57:41.300 And I'm glad Jerry's out there because, personally, I, again, I don't think he would match that, that, I don't think Jerry's a racist in any way from the man that I know and all of that sort of stuff.
00:58:02.000 But because he's so offensive, he, I think you want to go there.
00:58:07.160 Do you know what I mean?
00:58:07.980 You want to at least talk about it in your own way, create the absurdity that it is.
00:58:13.640 But I wasn't at the show, so I only get drips and drabs of what happened.
00:58:19.640 But in a way, again, with a guy like Jerry, to be banned, to be banned is kind of what he wants.
00:58:30.440 Do you know what I mean?
00:58:31.660 To be banned, from what I heard, from them banning him, and he only had two shows anyways.
00:58:39.560 Like, let's not think that, oh, my God, Jerry's been banned for the whole run.
00:58:44.880 How will he ever?
00:58:45.860 He only had two shows, the first one.
00:58:49.700 And after he got banned, his actual tour sold out, man, because you're right. 0.99
00:58:57.580 If you're going to Jerry Sadowitz and thinking that over all the years, this man has cultivated trying to offend you from day fucking, we got punched out in Montreal, I believe, for saying moose fucker. 0.99
00:59:18.720 And, oh, the Canadians were outraged. 0.98
00:59:23.520 And I'm like, that's not the half of it, man.
00:59:25.720 And for him to get banned at the Pleasance and listen to, we don't condone this kind of art form from whoever the, I can't remember what the owner said.
00:59:39.440 We don't support that kind of thing.
00:59:41.480 Tom, can I interrupt you there?
00:59:42.540 Because it's an important moment, right?
00:59:44.040 They didn't actually say we don't support this kind of material.
00:59:47.500 Do you know what they said?
00:59:48.560 Tell me.
00:59:49.280 We don't support the opinions Jerry Sadowitz expressed on stage.
00:59:55.220 Yeah, oh, that's right.
00:59:56.040 The opinions.
00:59:57.800 Right.
00:59:58.140 So your comedy act is now your opinions.
01:00:01.300 Yes.
01:00:02.620 Yes, yeah. 0.99
01:00:03.580 How the fuck does that work? 0.99
01:00:04.860 Well, it obviously works because they said it. 0.99
01:00:09.000 I don't know how because it seems a little bit ridiculous to me.
01:00:12.260 But anyway, sorry, I interrupted you. 0.98
01:00:13.560 So your point you're making is it's to his benefit, which thank fuck, by the way, that it is. 0.98
01:00:18.260 It should be to his benefit. 0.98
01:00:19.420 Yeah, you try to cancel Jerry.
01:00:21.980 He's one of those guys, if you try to cancel him, you'll only make him bigger.
01:00:25.620 Yeah.
01:00:26.100 You know, if you really wanted to hurt him, you should have ignored it.
01:00:30.540 Yeah. 0.98
01:00:30.900 You should have just fucking ignored it and said, only one more show, let him get him out of here, and then he's gone. 0.98
01:00:36.880 Yeah. 0.98
01:00:37.280 But what you did was, yeah, you made him more popular than ever.
01:00:43.560 Now all the racists are going to come and see him. 0.98
01:00:46.620 And he's going to be like, you know, I got the gay pink dollar. 0.99
01:00:50.320 I got the racist dollar. 0.98
01:00:51.660 I got all these dollars coming in, you know.
01:00:54.340 Yeah.
01:00:54.620 So, yeah, to me that was, a lot of people said that was the death of the festival because if it can happen to him, imagine what they can do to comedians that wouldn't survive it.
01:01:10.820 Yes.
01:01:11.400 Do you know what I mean?
01:01:12.120 And that's the real scary point on that.
01:01:15.000 Do you agree with that?
01:01:15.960 Yeah, of course I do, man.
01:01:17.460 Because now, there's this, again, another underlying fear you have to worry about out there is the, oh my God, if I say one wrong thing, if I offend the bartender or whatever, and I get whatever coming back, I could lose my run now.
01:01:42.460 So, and, and, and I'm, and, and, and if I'm not as, as big as Jerry is and that, you're actually, you could have your, there was, what was that?
01:01:54.440 But there was a kid, a lad kid a little while back that they got really mad at that it actually did happen to, and I don't know if you remember, he was, he was doing lad.
01:02:06.660 Yes, doing Dapper Laughs.
01:02:08.220 Dapper Laughs, man.
01:02:11.180 He's the opposite end of that.
01:02:13.120 Yeah. 0.99
01:02:13.380 He got banned and then his career just went down the fucking tubes, man, from the festival. 0.99
01:02:19.680 So, Dapper Laughs, that's right, man. 0.99
01:02:22.920 So, he's the opposite.
01:02:24.640 He's something that could happen because they were, they were, what you said, they were putting his opinions, this is a character he's doing, but people decided that those were his opinions and boom, gone.
01:02:41.360 You know what I mean?
01:02:42.020 So, he didn't have the same strength as Jerry to rise up to it, you know, because Jerry had the people to go, like you're saying, that are, you know, of course Jerry's offensive.
01:02:52.440 He's, he's the most.
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01:03:23.520 It's offensive, what, do you think you're not going to see an offensive comedian?
01:03:28.580 That's a good impression of him.
01:03:31.360 Yeah, and Dapper was the opposite of that, man.
01:03:35.320 He got, he got hammered and, and we've never seen him since, man, we've never seen him since.
01:03:40.500 And he was just doing a character on what, whether you like it or not, his character was pretty spot on on what goes on out there, you know?
01:03:49.980 Yeah.
01:03:50.260 Tom, do you ever worry about comedy, the way it's going and, like, you're seeing these things happen?
01:03:57.860 Or do you have faith, like you said, that it will swing back?
01:04:01.020 I have faith that it will swing back, Francis.
01:04:03.260 I, I, you know, because here's the other thing.
01:04:07.540 If I was, if I was 20 years old, this is my starting point.
01:04:12.200 Do you know what I mean?
01:04:13.220 And how do you know that these kids, these, these new comedians, they're just early on in their career?
01:04:20.280 Do you know what I mean? 1.00
01:04:21.120 And maybe they'll be looking at it going, I can't believe I did that shit. 1.00
01:04:24.460 You know what I mean? 0.99
01:04:24.980 Like, every other comedian looks back on their material and goes, oh, God, I'm embarrassed that I even did that and changed.
01:04:31.520 Because every comedian has an arc to them.
01:04:34.620 Do you know what I mean?
01:04:35.360 And some of them don't and they don't go anywhere, but the real good ones have a nice arc to them that will change.
01:04:42.540 And I think, yeah, I do think that that comedy goes through periods.
01:04:49.440 Do you know what I mean?
01:04:50.060 And this is just where we are and we can talk about it like we're doing right now.
01:04:55.320 We can, we can complain about it.
01:04:57.220 We can show its merits.
01:04:58.360 We can show its faults, you know.
01:05:00.100 And for us, it's scary because it's not a world we know.
01:05:05.120 Do you know what I mean?
01:05:05.880 It's like this whole new, everything we know is slowly slipping away.
01:05:10.220 And now I'm, you know, trying, I have to find my place in it without changing who I am.
01:05:17.040 Do you know what I mean?
01:05:17.720 And that's a very tough route to go down, you know.
01:05:22.480 But I'm going to have to do it or I fade away.
01:05:26.020 You know what I mean? 0.98
01:05:26.840 Like, I just got on TikTok for fuck's sake. 0.98
01:05:29.280 You know what I mean? 0.96
01:05:30.680 And I'm like, oh my God, I got 174,000 views on something and my endorphin levels went up through the roof.
01:05:40.080 So in a way, to me, you know, as much as I don't like it, I can, I also find it a really good tool for me too.
01:05:48.000 You know what I mean?
01:05:48.680 Because you still got to remember there's enough of us, there's enough of my generation to fight off this generation, right? 1.00
01:06:00.400 You know, like, you know, there's enough of 50-year-olds and that that love, that think it's shit, that fucking hate it, fucking hate it. 1.00
01:06:11.940 And they want, you know, that's, they want the Dave Chappelle, talk about transgender, you know, whereas, you know, and you could see the push. 0.99
01:06:22.040 And if I could use that as a nice example, you can see the pushback, you know, like, again, but it takes a strong comedian like that to lead the charge in something. 0.99
01:06:34.920 And so you've got the younger ones that are fighting them this way, but you also got his fans that are going, shut the fuck up. 0.91
01:06:41.800 And, and, but again, just, that's the change we're moving through for me. 0.96
01:06:49.160 Like, I can't not deny it isn't happening.
01:06:53.020 I can't bury my head in the sand.
01:06:55.080 And, and I, and I can also just see them, even though I may not like it, I can also see them as tools.
01:07:01.140 And how can I use these tools to inject my kind of comedy in there, like throw a little, you know, wood shoe in the clog and, and maybe, maybe influence one of these younger comedians to be, you know, to, I don't want to say be like these, but it's like so bad, but, but to show them another way, you know, maybe, maybe.
01:07:28.620 Well, it's a nice positive note on which to wrap up, Tom.
01:07:31.860 It's been a real pleasure.
01:07:33.220 I hope people will come and see you.
01:07:35.200 I think they've got a flavor of the stuff that you do and you're a very good comic, of course.
01:07:40.500 The last question we always ask is always the same, which is, what do you think is the one thing we're not talking about as a society that we really should be?
01:07:47.520 One thing we're not talking about as a society.
01:07:51.100 I think we're not talking about the death of the lead singer of the tragically hip.
01:07:58.620 Gord Downey, the Canadian icon that didn't make it globally, but was probably one of the best singers and one of the best bands in the world that got shoved under the carpet for some reason and only really remained in Canada.
01:08:17.700 And I think we should be talking about them and, and letting the rest of the world, introducing them to the tragically hip. 0.99
01:08:27.960 And, and let the, if we talked about it a little more, then, then the world would have one great, another of the great bands that they're missing.
01:08:39.760 Fantastic stuff.
01:08:40.760 Tom, thank you so much for coming on.
01:08:42.300 I'm really honored.
01:08:42.660 So you're on TikTok.
01:08:44.340 Where else do people go to find you?
01:08:47.060 After all this rally.
01:08:48.400 I'm on, I'm, I, I, I'm, I'm reluctantly on whatever the, the, the, uh, Facebook, tick, tick talk.
01:09:08.800 I'm known as the commander on, uh, Twitter, uh, I got an Instagram where somebody else said Tom stayed.
01:09:18.720 So stayed.com. 0.96
01:09:21.760 Like just saying these things out loud makes me feel like the hypocrite.
01:09:26.820 I know that I might be, but yeah, we just joined, uh, TikTok.
01:09:32.740 So I'm pretty sure you'd be able to find me if you really needed to, man.
01:09:36.940 And you're also on tour.
01:09:38.020 Don't forget to plug the tour.
01:09:39.000 Oh yeah.
01:09:39.500 Yeah.
01:09:39.740 I'm on, uh, that is one thing.
01:09:43.160 Yeah.
01:09:43.360 Thank you, man.
01:09:44.120 I'm so bad at that.
01:09:46.300 I am so bad at promoting my, I'm always, oh God.
01:09:51.880 I always sat there and go, you know where to find me. 0.97
01:09:54.300 That was the dumbest thing I've ever done in my career. 0.95
01:09:56.880 Uh, yeah. 0.98
01:09:57.820 If you go to tomstay.com, you can find, uh, where I'm playing.
01:10:02.800 I'm, I'm coming to, I think we got about 40, 50 dates all over the UK.
01:10:07.260 I always, yeah.
01:10:08.180 Yeah.
01:10:08.480 And you can join, uh, the loyal state in ease fans that have, uh, been with me since the
01:10:15.060 beginning.
01:10:15.560 And, uh, I love them all.
01:10:17.220 I've partied with them and I love them all.
01:10:18.920 And you, if you, everyone should go and watch you.
01:10:22.080 Cause to me, you're one of the finest comedians working at the moment.
01:10:24.800 I love watching your stuff.
01:10:25.920 Oh, thanks, Francis.
01:10:27.340 That's really kind, man.
01:10:28.880 Well, it's the truth, man.
01:10:29.740 He looked at me as well, waiting for me to, yes, mine as well.
01:10:33.600 Yes, I love you as well.
01:10:35.280 No, we're both big fans, Tom.
01:10:36.700 Make sure you go and see him.
01:10:37.940 Yeah.
01:10:38.280 Uh, and, uh, thank you for watching and listening.
01:10:40.580 Uh, we will see you very soon with another brilliant episode like this one or Raw Show.
01:10:45.380 All of them go out at 7pm UK time.
01:10:47.260 And we're also going to ask Tom a question from our locals.
01:10:50.660 Uh, but if you, and if you want your Trigger Not Retreat on the go, uh, it's also available
01:10:55.180 as a podcast.
01:10:56.300 Take care and see you soon, guys.
01:10:59.780 There is no way you're going to compete with Party Tom. 0.99
01:11:04.780 There's just no fuck. 0.99
01:11:06.700 I could keep up with Snoop Dogg. 0.98
01:11:08.580 And I'll see you soon, guys.
01:11:09.960 Bye.
01:11:10.180 Bye.
01:11:10.660 Bye.
01:11:10.800 Bye.
01:11:18.680 Bye.
01:11:20.280 Bye.
01:11:22.140 Bye.
01:11:22.260 Bye.
01:11:22.280 Bye.
01:11:26.260 Bye.
01:11:31.460 Bye.
01:11:32.180 Bye.
01:11:33.800 Bye.
01:11:34.620 Bye.
01:11:34.840 Bye.
01:11:36.280 Bye.