TRIGGERnometry - We the Internet TV： Satire for Polarised Times

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantin Kitchen. And this is a

00:00:09.600 show for you if you're bored with people arguing on the internet over subjects they know nothing

00:00:14.460 about. At Trigonometry, we don't pretend to be the experts, we ask the experts. Our fantastic

00:00:20.980 guest this week is the producer and head writer of We The Internet, Lou Perez. Welcome to

00:00:26.160 Trigonometry. Thanks for having me, guys. It's great to have you. I've been watching your videos

00:00:29.740 and really enjoying them but for anyone who doesn't know what you do just tell us a little

00:00:33.240 bit about it sure uh we the internet tv is a comedy news channel uh we mostly do uh political

00:00:39.820 satire we take on politics and culture and that sort of thing and we're available on youtube

00:00:46.440 facebook all online uh social media platforms and you've got an interesting angle like some

00:00:51.480 i was showing the guys some of your stuff it's really funny like you were talking there was this

00:00:54.660 bit about an edgy comedian uh doug doug allen yeah yeah for those of you you know across the

00:01:01.440 pond who aren't uh familiar with uh the edgiest comedian who dares to make fun of people like

00:01:07.640 donald trump and all that that's uh that's doug allen uh and that came out of uh i uh there's a

00:01:13.840 a a writer named luke spolino uh so he and i both developed doug allen um and we put on these these

00:01:21.260 fake comedy trailers for

00:01:23.100 Doug Allen's stand-up specials where he's

00:01:25.260 saying outrageous, edgy stuff that no

00:01:27.220 one is brave enough to say.

00:01:29.500 And what's amazing is the amount

00:01:31.300 of people who watch it and think that

00:01:33.160 it's real. Like, it's actually

00:01:35.080 gotten to the point where they're like, oh,

00:01:37.180 you see that on late night television all the

00:01:39.220 time, man. Like, this is ridiculous. 0.99

00:01:42.000 And then, like, going into 0.91

00:01:43.300 the comments and, like, trying to actually deal

00:01:45.320 with these people. So, occasionally, you'll

00:01:47.360 have someone, you'll call them out and be like, hey, you know, he's not a

00:01:49.240 real character. And then they'll be like, oh, my God, I can't believe

00:01:51.240 i fell for it then other people just you know sort of dig in they're like you guys suck you know 0.83

00:01:56.660 well our friend uh who who wrote who created the character titania mcgrath andrew doyle he has the 0.84

00:02:03.520 very same thing with with titania like he posts the most outrageous things like you know there's

00:02:08.620 nothing white about me except my skin color or something like that and he has loads of people

00:02:12.900 taking it at face value uh it says quite a lot i think about where we are culturally but in terms

00:02:19.460 of with the internet, what's the kind of angle that you guys are coming at things from?

00:02:23.600 Yeah, so we describe ourselves as equal opportunity offenders. And, you know, when you're making fun

00:02:31.240 of politics, you know, we're dealing with a lot of competition, right? So you have professionals

00:02:36.140 in late night television, you have comedy shows and all that, and everybody is going after the

00:02:41.360 same material. So it's sort of our job to see what angle isn't being taken, you know, to try to

00:02:48.080 be funny and original and have original takes on it. So that's where we're at.

00:02:53.140 Because a lot of from what I see comedy and, you know, particularly like, you know,

00:02:57.660 the late night shows, the Tonight Show, they tend to have a liberal bent to them. But I don't see

00:03:02.320 a lot of conservative comedy coming from the US. Would you describe yourself as being a conservative

00:03:06.960 outlet? Well, it's it's tough now to even to know what conservative means, because I have so many

00:03:13.380 friends of mine who were liberals, Democrats, and they tell me, they're like, Lou, I believe

00:03:21.200 the same exact things I believed five years ago, but for some reason, if I talk about

00:03:25.800 them, I'm worried that I'm going to get in trouble.

00:03:28.700 So it's sort of like people are being kind of pushed into the conservative bent or whatever.

00:03:38.720 They're being labeled as conservatives.

00:03:39.680 They're being labeled as conservatives without even considering themselves conservatives.

00:03:43.660 There's a lot of work that I've done in the past.

00:03:46.280 Like I got my first job out of college.

00:03:50.380 I wrote erotic fiction for a living.

00:03:53.360 I wrote dirty stories for a living.

00:03:56.220 Like that was my first job.

00:03:57.680 It's not really a job that I would say a conservative would really take, you know, writing.

00:04:02.680 So I can't believe I – there's no reason for me to bring that up.

00:04:06.420 I'm glad you did.

00:04:07.460 just in case the comedy thing doesn't work

00:04:09.700 I don't want everybody to know that I could

00:04:11.700 go that route again and write dirty

00:04:13.700 stories. That's the only reason you've come on

00:04:15.540 trigonometry, you wanted some jobs

00:04:17.820 doing that. Exactly, my erotic

00:04:19.580 fiction career needs to be picked up again

00:04:21.360 It's funny that you say that

00:04:23.580 because we have a kind of more

00:04:25.540 libertarian comedian in this country, Simon

00:04:27.560 Evans, who used to write pornography

00:04:29.620 for a living, did you know this? Yeah

00:04:30.980 And so maybe that's why, you kind

00:04:33.720 of said you're a libertarian, which no one in the

00:04:35.580 UK knows what it means, but

00:04:36.740 But it means you're problematic.

00:04:39.400 Very problematic.

00:04:40.720 Well, even in the United States, libertarians, people don't necessarily know what that is.

00:04:46.780 I think sometimes libertarians will be labeled Republicans who smoke weed,

00:04:50.840 which is a very oversimplified way of putting it.

00:04:58.380 For me, as a small L libertarian, I'm not a part of the Libertarian Party,

00:05:03.780 My whole thing comes down to this idea of of voluntary exchange between between people that I don't want any initiation of force.

00:05:15.600 I don't want people forcing others to do their do their bidding.

00:05:20.640 And I sort of take that from the personal, you know, the personal place between this is all voluntary and then sort of expand that to, you know, groups and et cetera, et cetera.

00:05:32.080 And a lot of times that includes, for the most part, things like smaller government and rights as far as what you can and cannot put in your body.

00:05:42.920 The idea is if you're not hurting anybody else, you should be able to put whatever you like in your body, that sort of thing.

00:05:49.000 And what challenges do you face when it comes to writing political comedy?

00:05:54.220 Because to write, for instance, a Trump joke is phenomenally difficult.

00:05:58.820 because there's so many people, like you said, going after the same terrain.

00:06:04.640 Yeah, I think it's like anything, you know, being original is a tough point.

00:06:11.440 And then also being able to do a joke and not lose the audience right from the get-go.

00:06:18.120 So sometimes there'll be videos that we put out and people are like,

00:06:21.580 oh, this is just right-wing propaganda.

00:06:23.860 And it's like, well, I didn't really consider right-wing propaganda.

00:06:26.140 Again, I thought it was me taking an idea and developing it and trying to do something with it.

00:06:32.240 And then other times, we'll be called you libtards, which is – do you guys have libtards here? 0.93

00:06:38.960 I'm a libtard. 0.96

00:06:39.940 Are you a libtard? 1.00

00:06:40.740 You're really not.

00:06:42.000 I actually want to take that back for libertarians.

00:06:45.260 I want a libtard to be the libertarian thing. 1.00

00:06:47.680 It's not working out well in the U.S.

00:06:50.480 But it's funny. It's like depending on which if you have a if you have a weird nuanced view of the world, I think people are so used to, you know, everybody sort of being in a box where if you believe this, you must believe this, this and this.

00:07:05.620 Therefore, I can see one thing that you did over here and make all these sweeping assumptions about where you fall on these other political issues.

00:07:14.600 I would do you want to. OK, I usually it's me interrupting you.

00:07:18.320 So I'll be the I'll be the gentleman. OK, it's unusual to hear Russian use a word that gentleman.

00:07:24.640 But anyway, the question I was going to ask you is, so how do you approach your comedy in the sense that normally when you're a political comedian, you have a political agenda.

00:07:35.620 So you're a left wing comedian. That's your left wing agenda or whatever else. Do you have a political agenda or is it just finding the funny?

00:07:42.500 um i think it's just for me it's it's finding the funny a lot of stuff that i do i also do stand up

00:07:49.700 as well so um when i'm on stage a lot of things are you know self-deprecating humor i guess if

00:07:55.480 you want to call it that or talking about uh things in my own life and i i feel like a lot

00:08:00.060 of times uh when it comes to political humor there's this risk of going full-blown activism

00:08:06.680 and i think when you go full-blown activism people can sniff it out and then it's like well now i'm

00:08:11.540 I'm no longer seeing an act or no longer hearing jokes. I'm hearing, you know, an activist speak.

00:08:18.900 And that's something that I'm trying that, you know, I think everybody should be really conscious of when they're when they're doing that.

00:08:25.720 Well, it's like you said, though, it's becoming quite difficult because I do political comedy as well.

00:08:30.460 And the problem is that whenever I mean, making fun of a politician or political movement or a party or whatever, it's now automatically interpreted as criticism.

00:08:39.560 And it used to be, I feel, that you could make fun of both sides.

00:08:43.500 And if you kind of went through your 10 or 15, 20, whatever minute set or an hour show and you kind of punched at everybody, that was fine.

00:08:51.140 But now people would just go, you made this one joke about Trump or one joke about Hillary or one joke about whoever.

00:08:57.140 And that's you now. And now we've disagreed with you. And now, do you know what I'm saying?

00:09:01.460 Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of times political comedy is supposed to be this idea of holding up a mirror to society.

00:09:08.660 And I think one thing we have to be careful of is to remember to actually turn that mirror around and look at ourselves and be like, I don't have all the answers and I don't necessarily know what's going on with everything.

00:09:24.460 We had an incident very recently, actually, in this country where a comedian who hosts the only real equivalent we have to your late shows, who was doing a show to a group of people who were kind of the blue collar type of audience at a charity gig.

00:09:45.600 and he was doing

00:09:47.500 his very anti-Brexit material

00:09:49.660 which I guess would be a bit like

00:09:51.620 doing anti-Trump material

00:09:53.380 you know in the Rust Belt somewhere

00:09:55.680 something like that and he got pelted with

00:09:57.620 bread and booed off stage and it

00:09:59.640 was really the first time that we've

00:10:01.600 I think it's the first time that that's really happened

00:10:03.440 I mean a couple of other people have been talking about it

00:10:05.420 so it seems like it's becoming very

00:10:07.480 polarized in that way

00:10:08.900 and I think like you said comedians

00:10:11.620 maybe need to take a bit more responsibility

00:10:13.300 as well for just

00:10:14.440 being activists on stage rather than just doing jokes, right?

00:10:18.800 Well, also, I think we're in really weird times where, like in the United States, if you are a

00:10:26.440 Trump supporter, people support him so much where it's become almost a, you know, sort of a

00:10:34.260 personality trait in a way where they don't trust the mainstream media. And, you know, sometimes

00:10:40.680 there's good reason to be skeptical of stories that you're seeing in the media, but they don't

00:10:48.120 trust the media so much that they start to take any form of criticism as a personal attack.

00:10:55.280 I've noticed that with my own stuff where fans who have been following me and really enjoy when

00:11:02.800 I make fun of social justice warriors or when I make fun of Antifa, the second I make a joke

00:11:10.400 about Trump, it's like, oh, I'm done with you guys. It's over. And it's like, really, this is

00:11:16.260 what it, like this one punchline, that's all it took for you to, you know, think that, that, that, 0.98

00:11:21.600 you know, I'm, I'm garbage now, no longer worthy of, of having you around. And it's a, it's a 0.97

00:11:26.740 little scary because I, I fear that, that the divisiveness is just going to, it's just going

00:11:32.140 to keep separating us and separating us until we, you know, can't tell, you know, what is a joke and

00:11:38.160 what is true, what's fact, what's fiction, and all that.

00:11:42.300 And we're not talking, and I think that's a really big problem.

00:11:45.100 And do you think audiences have become more sensitive since you've been...

00:11:48.400 So, for instance, when did you start stand-up or comedy?

00:11:51.900 I started comedy, I think, maybe like 17 years ago.

00:11:56.360 I started in college, and I started with improv and sketch comedy.

00:12:01.040 And then I've been doing stand-up, I think, for probably like 10 years or so.

00:12:04.860 And in that time, so you're mainly New York-based.

00:12:08.160 You must have seen audiences change.

00:12:10.900 Do you think we've become more sensitive as a society

00:12:13.980 and as an audience in a comedy club,

00:12:15.900 or do you think things have remained kind of similar?

00:12:18.580 You know, I'm not sure.

00:12:20.120 I wonder, it might be that nowadays you have an outlet

00:12:25.320 to talk about your sensitivity,

00:12:28.280 whether it's going on social media

00:12:30.820 and talking about a comedian that you saw.

00:12:34.460 I'm not sure.

00:12:35.260 I think it almost seems like it used to be if you were offended by a joke or, you know, you found something that was, you know, like, oh, that's just wrong.

00:12:45.120 You would say, I'm not into that and then move on.

00:12:47.940 Whereas now it's almost like it's incumbent upon you to talk about how offended you are and how wrong that joke was.

00:12:58.020 I'm not sure.

00:12:59.300 You have to call it out now.

00:13:00.840 Call it out.

00:13:01.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:13:02.100 Well, now you can, that's sort of your way of being part of the fight, in a way.

00:13:07.240 Yeah, so it's not necessarily that more people are becoming offended.

00:13:10.360 It's more that when people are, they amplify that to a great degree.

00:13:14.600 I mean, look, in London, I know I speak to a lot of people,

00:13:17.320 and Francis hosts a lot of different shows at some of the better clubs in London.

00:13:21.740 I speak to other people.

00:13:22.820 Best clubs.

00:13:24.880 Sorry, Gary.

00:13:25.860 No, no, well done, but not factually accurate, but it's a good joke.

00:13:29.580 But you talk to people who host shows or MC shows like that, and the level of complaints about a comedian being whatever, offensive in some way, has never been higher.

00:13:43.360 Even as a comedian, we're becoming increasingly careful about the kind of stuff that we do.

00:13:50.020 So certainly in this country, it has been happening.

00:13:52.780 I don't know whether it's the case in New York or elsewhere in these states.

00:13:56.320 Yeah, I haven't. Luckily, I haven't experienced it that much. I have a friend of mine who owns a club. And it'd be interesting to hear what he has to say because.

00:14:07.420 Well, let's get him on Trigger.

00:14:08.480 I know.

00:14:09.340 We should have had him.

00:14:10.440 I know.

00:14:11.180 Yeah, I guess it's one of those things where also how do you quantify it to, you know, if you have, you know, 200 people packed into a room and five of them leave a terrible review, are we to assume that the other 195 either had a good time or, you know, they had an OK time or some of them had a bad time, but they were just they were so offended and so traumatized that they're not even able to talk about it.

00:14:38.520 I don't know.

00:14:40.320 Don't you think it's also part of comedy's remit to offend,

00:14:43.440 to push the boundaries?

00:14:44.920 I remember the first time I saw Chris Rock

00:14:47.580 is when he did the whole black people routine.

00:14:51.540 Sure.

00:14:52.120 Do you want to do that routine?

00:14:53.020 Yeah, let's do it. 0.95

00:14:54.300 In my voice, it would sound fucking excellent. 0.91

00:14:58.600 That would be one way to end the channel. 0.95

00:15:00.160 Anyway, there was about eight people in the room.

00:15:04.680 I was in university, and I was the only white guy in the room,

00:15:07.060 and we were watching it.

00:15:07.920 and I was watching the reaction from everybody else,

00:15:11.280 and I was like, are you allowed to laugh at this?

00:15:13.680 Am I allowed to laugh at this?

00:15:15.420 Black people laughing, is a white person allowed to? 0.98

00:15:17.780 Isn't that the purpose of comedy, to test the boundaries? 0.90

00:15:21.060 Racism.

00:15:21.660 Yeah, exactly.

00:15:23.200 To test the boundaries of racism.

00:15:24.740 To test the boundaries of racism.

00:15:26.280 You know, of what is and isn't acceptable,

00:15:28.920 and aren't we making things too safe at the moment?

00:15:32.080 Well, I think, you know, comedy is a way to go after sacred cows, right?

00:15:36.660 So whatever the sacred cow is, it's sort of, you know, might be the duty of a comedian.

00:15:44.200 You know, and you could you can volunteer for the job to take on whatever that sacred cow is.

00:15:49.740 And I remember talking to people about that, that Chris Rock bit.

00:15:53.560 And apparently it took him a really long time to get it to the point where it wasn't offensive to also black audiences.

00:16:01.020 Yeah. Apparently he was working on that material a lot and it wasn't it wasn't working in in black rooms. 0.98

00:16:08.020 So I think I think there I think there's something there to, you know, being willing to fail as well.

00:16:16.120 I mean, I mean, I'm sure if you guys look at your notebooks and just how many jokes are just they were great in your head or like or even like, oh, man, this is going to piss some people off or or.

00:16:27.620 And then you go and you do it live and you're like, oh, what a waste of my life.

00:16:32.360 That was just the worst.

00:16:33.360 No, it never happened.

00:16:34.160 Never, never happened.

00:16:35.340 It's all gold, man.

00:16:36.560 Never in the best clubs.

00:16:39.240 The better, the better clubs.

00:16:41.660 But also I think it comes down to, you know, how are you going to choose on, you know, what art to, you know, to spend your time looking at or listening to.

00:16:55.080 I want it to be something that I haven't heard before.

00:16:57.440 or something that the best thing about about laughter is when it's uncontrollable so you know

00:17:01.880 even you know some of the most horrendous jokes if it got you laughing it's like it did something

00:17:06.940 right yeah yeah well the thing with uh the chris rock bit is really interesting what you say there

00:17:13.600 about him having to work on it for a long time this is where i feel the the issue may be is that

00:17:19.740 if you need to work on a routine which we all do to try and make it find that place between

00:17:25.160 funny and offensive where it sits just right. You're going to have to go to, oh, this is just

00:17:31.160 offensive at some point, right? And you have to have the space to do that. If you don't have that

00:17:38.740 opportunity, then there's going to be routines that are never going to be born because they're

00:17:43.520 going to be just killed at birth because you go, oh, no, it's too offensive. I can't try this out

00:17:48.560 and you can't get it to its logical conclusion. Yeah. The challenge is there too, because it's

00:17:54.320 not like all subjects are equal. Obviously, it's much easier to talk about a relationship,

00:18:03.020 like a bad date, than it is to talk about a bad date that leads to an abortion.

00:18:08.580 Like, ooh, then that's it, right? No, I mean, that, you know, it's a tough one. So there's

00:18:13.520 a challenge there. Well, how do you make these really sensitive, controversial subjects palatable

00:18:18.220 and funny um and um you know there are people who can do it and others who can't and others are like

00:18:25.120 i i don't even want to touch that i i find that the whole you know chappelle special thing very

00:18:31.240 very interesting as in you know the mainstream media's reaction to it as opposed to you know

00:18:36.680 the average punter or audience member who loved it and i mean the thing that summed it up the best

00:18:42.620 was a Rotten Tomatoes review from the critics

00:18:45.380 and then the audience rating.

00:18:47.020 Right, yeah.

00:18:48.100 And that was in Sticks and Stones, right?

00:18:51.600 And I wasn't looking forward to seeing the special

00:18:56.420 or anything like that.

00:18:57.160 I had no interest in seeing it.

00:18:58.560 It's on Netflix and Netflix is just full of,

00:19:01.260 there's so many specials and I'm like,

00:19:02.700 I can't get to all of them.

00:19:03.900 The only reason why I watched it

00:19:05.280 was because of the controversy,

00:19:08.080 you know, everybody talking about it, you know.

00:19:10.120 And then finally I watched it,

00:19:12.240 I watch with my wife and like every five minutes I'm cracking up and like balled over in laughter.

00:19:19.120 And it's like, yeah, that's what that's what it's supposed to do.

00:19:21.700 I would love to actually it would be great if all the critics who, you know, who panned it, it would be great to set up a camera in the room when they were actually watching the special and see how many of them were actually laughing.

00:19:35.680 But but afterwards, like, well, no, I have to pretend like I wasn't laughing.

00:19:39.420 you know it's not it's not right for me to to uh agree with this comedy special have you met a lot

00:19:45.840 of critics lou no this is why you think that if you meet critics they're people who have absolutely

00:19:52.520 no sense of humor by and large like there's a guy here the guardian in the uk who um

00:19:58.340 oh what a funny guy um he he's known for having absolutely no sense of humor so

00:20:07.280 like he's known for coming into a show watching it for an hour and like people say yeah he smiled

00:20:12.240 twice i think he's going to give it a good review uh so that i we we are in a position where there's

00:20:18.180 a lot of people who are judging comedy who don't seem to enjoy it which is why chappelle and jimmy

00:20:24.760 carr and and they get very bad reviews and a lot of it seems to be quite political like coming back

00:20:29.940 to what we were talking about earlier but uh talking about sacred cows what kind of stuff

00:20:35.220 are you interested in going at

00:20:37.380 at the moment? What kind of stuff are you working

00:20:39.360 on with We the Internet?

00:20:41.120 We released a

00:20:43.020 video not too long

00:20:45.400 ago titled

00:20:47.380 Hire Minorities 1.00

00:20:49.420 to Voice Your

00:20:51.060 Minority Opinions. 0.58

00:20:54.760 That's what

00:20:55.360 we've done in the show, man. I'm the foreigner here.

00:20:57.620 You're a refugee, right?

00:20:59.080 Not quite. Just pretend.

00:21:02.740 I'm a refugee,

00:21:03.620 you guys. I escaped war-torn Russia. There you go. The idea being, if you're a straight, white, 0.87

00:21:12.340 cis male, oftentimes there are certain subjects that you're not allowed to have an opinion on.

00:21:18.980 So this service will allow you to select a member of that marginalized group to express the same

00:21:25.700 exact opinion, and it'll be taken seriously because it has the authority of coming from a

00:21:31.520 The person of that class.

00:21:33.780 Yeah, that's awesome.

00:21:34.960 And that subject in particular is something that I've noticed over the years because people often begin a sentence with, you know, speaking as a person of color or speaking as a woman or speaking as a man of faith. 0.95

00:21:50.980 But no one ever starts by saying, you know, speaking as a stupid person. 0.75

00:21:56.260 No one ever admits that there are certain identity markers 0.99

00:22:00.860 that you'll lead with,

00:22:02.140 but you'll never lead with a state of ignorance.

00:22:05.560 Like, you know, I don't know what I'm talking about

00:22:07.680 before I get going here.

00:22:10.180 That's a very, very Bill Burr technique.

00:22:12.280 The fact is like, nah, I don't know what I'm talking about,

00:22:14.460 but I'm going to hit you with this stuff anyway.

00:22:16.680 Yeah.

00:22:17.720 Is that like an example of Socratic irony? 1.00

00:22:19.740 Like, I'm an idiot, guys, 1.00

00:22:21.780 and now I'm going to hit you with some really wisdom here. 0.99

00:22:25.140 I was going to talk about Burr just very, very briefly

00:22:29.260 because in this era of political correctness

00:22:32.000 where you can't say this and you should apologise

00:22:34.980 if you're a straight white man, we've heard enough of your voices.

00:22:39.200 It's ironic, isn't it, that actually probably

00:22:41.400 one of the biggest comedians of his generation

00:22:43.840 is a guy who goes on stage and is entirely unapologetic

00:22:48.100 for being a straight white man.

00:22:50.360 And I think to myself, do you think that's part of the reason

00:22:52.940 why Burr has, you know, resonates so hard?

00:22:57.000 Oh, I'm not sure if it's that necessarily.

00:23:01.420 I think Burr just has like a great track record

00:23:04.980 of just doing really great bits,

00:23:07.660 bits that kill in any room,

00:23:10.420 you know, whether it's an urban room,

00:23:11.840 if it's a, you know, a white room or something like that.

00:23:16.020 His stuff just transcends.

00:23:18.900 I think it transcends.

00:23:20.080 Even the racial stuff transcends race.

00:23:22.940 It's sort of like these universal ideas.

00:23:26.160 One of the coolest things, when I was living in Los Angeles, I got to host a show where Bill Burr was a special guest, like unannounced guest.

00:23:35.600 And he did 20 minutes goofing on Michelle Obama, the first lady, in a room in Los Angeles where, you know, obviously it's a very left-leaning room.

00:23:48.620 And he was able to do this material and get everybody cracking up.

00:23:53.600 And I think his approach has just always been so good, too. 0.99

00:23:57.300 And it might be some of that, you know, hey, I'm an idiot. 1.00

00:23:59.780 I don't know what I'm talking about. 1.00

00:24:02.180 And then hitting you with it.

00:24:03.320 He's just a very skilled comedian, isn't he?

00:24:05.200 But, Francis, I have to say I'm disappointed in you for getting to point out one of the greatest comedians in the history of comedy, Hannah Gadsby.

00:24:12.880 Oh, right.

00:24:13.980 Yeah.

00:24:14.800 Have you seen her special?

00:24:16.320 You know, I haven't seen the special, but I saw her TED Talk.

00:24:21.720 Same thing.

00:24:22.440 About the special.

00:24:23.480 Same thing.

00:24:23.880 Yeah.

00:24:25.200 What did you guys think of the special?

00:24:26.960 Is it worth it?

00:24:27.620 I never actually saw it.

00:24:29.540 Did you not?

00:24:30.080 No, I never saw it.

00:24:32.280 It's one of those things.

00:24:33.540 The moment something becomes extremely hype and polarizing on both sides,

00:24:37.560 I just wait for it in a couple of years and I evaluate it on its own merits.

00:24:41.980 Well, look, it's half an hour of decent jokes followed by a TED Talk.

00:24:46.960 So there you go.

00:24:48.880 But we are in this sort of era of woke comedy.

00:24:52.440 which you could say Hannah Gadsby is the apex of,

00:24:55.580 and she has her critics, but what is undeniable is that she has resonated.

00:25:00.600 She sells out tours, you know.

00:25:02.700 There's thousands and thousands of people who've watched her special.

00:25:06.920 Number one, what is woke comedy, and why do you think it's resonated,

00:25:12.360 and why do you think people enjoy it?

00:25:14.660 I'm not sure what woke comedy is.

00:25:17.180 Oh, there we go.

00:25:18.400 And none of your questions are completely useless, therefore.

00:25:21.340 Well, you know, it might be some I think I think what's great about doing comedy today is, you know, from we have the technology where, you know, anybody who wants to wants to do comedy can do it.

00:25:35.620 You know, they could start their own podcast or vlog and all that.

00:25:39.480 And it's it's it's helped to get rid of the gatekeepers, you know, because there might be, you know, certain gatekeepers where Hannah Gatsby would never be able to get to where she is today.

00:25:50.400 like selling out arenas and all that thing.

00:25:53.680 And I think no matter what you think about Hannah Gatsby

00:25:57.120 or what you think about Bill Burr or Dave Chappelle,

00:25:59.680 it's wonderful to have all those choices where it's like,

00:26:03.780 oh, you know what, I can go my whole life without seeing a Hannah Gatsby special,

00:26:09.460 but all these people who are into that can go and support her.

00:26:14.540 And I think that that's something that sometimes we forget.

00:26:18.900 It's a pretty good time to be doing comedy, no matter what your comedy is.

00:26:24.500 Do you really think that?

00:26:25.580 Because there's a lot of people who would argue,

00:26:27.360 you can't say what you think anymore and everything's getting shut down

00:26:32.040 and I'm oppressed and all the rest of it.

00:26:33.840 But you say it's the best possible time to be doing comedy.

00:26:36.860 I think so.

00:26:38.020 I think there are just all these different avenues where you can make stuff happen.

00:26:42.320 And I'll, you know, sometimes see, like, comedians that I know who've, you know, been in the game for, you know, five years or something like that, complaining about the state that they're in.

00:26:53.720 Like, oh, you know, I'm being held back or this theater won't have me, this club won't have me.

00:27:00.840 And it's like, well, you have an opportunity there to be a little bit more entrepreneurial and show people that you have an audience.

00:27:06.820 You know, if you could if you can pack 10 people into a room every week, you know, to see your show and then build that up and then build an online your online brand and all that, I think you need to you need to do that.

00:27:20.740 excuse me um i've always sort of been of the mind that i um ever since i i've been doing comedy

00:27:28.460 where i can't rely on on you know gatekeepers or the people uh uh you know sort of in the

00:27:36.960 business or in the industry it's like i i need to just be doing my own stuff because once you

00:27:42.100 start relying on other people then you know you're subject to what they want and what they don't want

00:27:49.880 I guess that's probably why you're not seeing some of the stuff that we're bringing up because if you do what you do for yourself, just like we're doing trigonometry, we don't answer to anybody.

00:28:03.600 That gives you a level of freedom where you don't even have to worry about the stuff.

00:28:07.540 But certainly in this country, I don't know whether it's the same in America, if you're just a club comedian, which there's obviously lots of, you are at the mercy of the gatekeepers, as you say, which is why it's a great time to be doing comedy, not necessarily to be a stand-up comedian, making your way up through the standard industry, but it is a great time to be doing content, let's say.

00:28:32.640 Yeah, that's a good way to put it because I know people in the States who are great stand-up comedians, but they have side jobs.

00:28:42.800 They have side gigs because even when things are going well and they're hitting the road and doing those road gigs, they're still not able to sustain themselves and they need to work other jobs.

00:28:55.400 So, yeah, I've never just done stand-up comedy or even tried to go that route.

00:29:04.220 You're more interested in what you're doing now with the internet?

00:29:07.240 Yeah, production and using that as a way to book gigs and to do live shows and all that.

00:29:15.000 Oh, you guys do live shows as well?

00:29:16.400 Yeah, we did a tour, a four-city tour back in November called The Funny Thing About Hate Speech.

00:29:25.400 that's that's a great title yeah and so when you're looking at what is happening in the u.s because

00:29:36.140 everything is so ridiculous now i mean take you know even like you know like george w bush when

00:29:43.620 things were ridiculous and he was coming across saying ridiculous things it was easier to parody 0.92

00:29:49.620 him but now you see trump and like literally yesterday he's just been impeached i mean 0.89

00:29:54.240 How do you satirize that?

00:29:56.800 It must be impossible, isn't it?

00:29:59.500 It seems to be, yeah, very hard, especially I just don't have the bandwidth to be able to take everything in.

00:30:10.000 You know, there are so many people who seem to live their lives on Twitter and are always reacting to whatever is happening.

00:30:18.340 and I think

00:30:20.320 Trump has done a really good job

00:30:22.620 of

00:30:23.020 we're just going to clip that by the way

00:30:26.260 he's done a really good

00:30:27.700 and then you'll do a montage

00:30:30.700 of like children in cages

00:30:32.380 and then and bombings

00:30:34.660 and stuff like that happening

00:30:35.700 he's done a really wonderful job

00:30:37.600 and we're just going to put that on a loop

00:30:39.180 with Twitter

00:30:42.200 he's done a great job with Twitter

00:30:43.420 he's done a really great job

00:30:45.640 sort of misdirecting

00:30:47.040 and diverting attention away from, you know, really important things that are happening.

00:30:55.460 But I think also he's, I guess as a libertarian,

00:31:00.220 I like when people are more skeptical of the powers that be

00:31:04.540 and skeptical of those in government.

00:31:06.680 And you talk about when George W. Bush was president.

00:31:09.920 I absolutely loved The Daily Show at that time.

00:31:12.680 I loved the Colbert Report.

00:31:15.020 I think the Colbert Report was on around the same time.

00:31:18.480 Well, Colbert actually made his name, if you remember,

00:31:21.740 when he was invited to speak at the White House Correspondents' Day.

00:31:24.840 Which I thought was brilliant.

00:31:27.100 I loved it.

00:31:28.100 Yeah.

00:31:28.560 And then what happened was when Obama came into office,

00:31:31.560 I was like, yes, they're going to continue that.

00:31:34.200 They're going to continue to speak truth to power, if you will.

00:31:39.340 And we really didn't see that.

00:31:41.500 And that was unfortunate.

00:31:42.220 I was like, oh, man, here I was.

00:31:43.240 of sort of, you know, relying on the comedians to come and take the president to task.

00:31:51.200 And, yeah, so I think now it's sort of the executive branch has been, you know, maybe

00:31:58.680 a little, will be a little less respected, you know, moving on and hopefully more people

00:32:03.080 are a little more cognizant of just what, you know, what powers are being wielded.

00:32:09.800 And I think, you know, what you do with the internet is actually very valuable because more and more people have, you know, they look at, you know, for instance, the Tonight Show and they go, well, you know what, this clearly has an agenda.

00:32:23.320 I'm now feeling that I'm being lectured to by a sort of liberal left intelligentsia.

00:32:28.280 And we get it here in the UK, you know, anti-Brexit, which is fine.

00:32:31.760 Do anti-Brexit jokes.

00:32:32.860 There are some brilliant ones.

00:32:34.160 But if that is your consistent narrative, then to be brutally honest, it gets tedious.

00:32:38.580 and then for somebody like with the internet to come along

00:32:41.180 and goes, look, we're going to make fun of Trump

00:32:43.020 but we're also going to make fun of Hillary. 1.00

00:32:44.960 You go, how refreshing.

00:32:46.700 This is what comedy should be.

00:32:48.460 Yeah, one of the things that I absolutely love

00:32:50.960 is when you post something online on Facebook or whatever

00:32:56.460 and you have fans who say,

00:32:59.120 yeah, normally I like your stuff

00:33:00.320 but this one was kind of meh.

00:33:02.600 And then they come back and they're like,

00:33:04.040 oh, I love this video though.

00:33:05.180 So I like to, you know, have people who are able to disagree with you but still support your work.

00:33:14.220 And it's a challenge, too, for myself because it's so easy to just support those who you agree with and, you know, kind of fall into that same trap.

00:33:25.960 So I'm hoping that we do get to the point where more people are able to do that.

00:33:30.280 Yeah.

00:33:30.880 Well, we have that with trigonometry as well.

00:33:33.060 you'll get people who who say oh i watched your show for you know a year and a half or whatever

00:33:38.140 but this video yeah how dare you have you know this person yeah or they'll start to like we had

00:33:45.840 this video we didn't into posy parker who's a gender critical ex-feminist and she was pretty 1.00

00:33:53.700 strong let's say i think that's a fair statement on on trans stuff and so we kind of pushed back

00:33:58.260 on her probably more than we did with others and someone on the mumsnet feminist forum went through 1.00

00:34:03.640 and said oh you had she was speaking for this many minutes and this other person you interviewed by

00:34:08.500 the same thing they spoke for that and it's because you're two men and it's like come on

00:34:12.160 but but eventually you kind of what i what we always talk about is like you have an audience

00:34:17.460 that is your core audience and over time that will shape up to be what it is and people who

00:34:23.200 who thought it was like a right-wing eco-chamber or this kind of eco-chamber or that kind of

00:34:28.480 eco-chamber, they all get filtered out. And what happened? That was taken down, right?

00:34:32.360 Yeah, it was taken down as hate speech and then eventually reinstated, probably because

00:34:37.700 there was quite a backlash against it. It was starting to get traction in the news and

00:34:42.480 stuff like that. Have you ever had any problems with Facebook or anything like that?

00:34:46.160 Yeah, we've had problems. So we had one, it was, I forget how long ago,

00:34:52.900 But I ran a poll. Right. Yeah. And I and I asked who was responsible for Hurricane Florence. Right. And let's see. Twenty five percent of the people said Donald Trump and the other seventy five percent said the gays.

00:35:12.060 thank you thank you for laughing and there was only two there was only two options right right

00:35:19.900 and obviously anybody reading this knew that it was a joke it was a play on you know who controls

00:35:24.800 you know yeah you know should have included jews yeah yeah yeah yeah uh and i think it was like

00:35:30.200 over 10 000 people voted in this in this poll and shared it around and it was taken down because it

00:35:36.300 went against community standards and it got me thinking you know like man um you know here is

00:35:43.020 here it is like the censors on facebook are doing away with what's clearly satire yeah man who knows

00:35:50.000 what else they're doing away with and we've had an issue recently with we have an old video

00:35:54.920 that i shot like right after i think it was a i think it must have been 2017 or something like

00:36:01.340 that right after the inauguration, the presidential inauguration, it's making fun of Antifa.

00:36:07.280 It's like, here are six rioting tips for Antifa.

00:36:10.880 And that was flagged recently for promoting violence.

00:36:16.180 And I wonder how much of it is sort of the attempt to get an algorithm that can catch

00:36:21.580 every, you know, every single problematic thing.

00:36:24.440 Then, you know, you're going to have a lot of stuff that just sort of gets caught up

00:36:28.160 in it that shouldn't be.

00:36:30.220 But, yeah, we've had issues with that on YouTube as well.

00:36:32.560 In those cases, were they manually reviewed and then reinstated?

00:36:37.560 I'm not sure.

00:36:39.100 I think this last one we called for a manual review, and I'm not sure what's happened yet.

00:36:44.240 But until then, now we're thinking, oh, no, we have to be wary of certain keywords, violence or anything that could get picked up as potential hate speech.

00:36:58.720 And it's tough when you're creating content to try to stay ahead of the curve and knowing, you know, what it is that we can and cannot publish without worrying about it being taken down.

00:37:08.980 Well, this is the problem with censorship is that if you, even if it's an algorithm, which I actually, in our case, it wasn't in when with the Posey Parker video, it was taken down based on a manual review of it. And then we had a manual appeal again that changed it back. But even if it's algorithms, it forces you as the person who's putting stuff out there to censor yourself.

00:37:33.760 Yeah. And then you won't tackle the issues. Like you say, the sacred cows, you'd rather stay away from it and do a video about something that's going to be less controversial.

00:37:43.720 Yeah. And when you're talking about demonetization, you know, there are places like like Prager University that'll PragerU that talks about their videos.

00:37:52.620 But a lot of people on the left who produce videos, their stuff has been demonetized as well.

00:37:58.200 And you wonder, is it keywords? Is it manual review? Is there a type of vendetta? I don't know.

00:38:05.660 And do you think that they've become more draconian as the years have gone by, social media?

00:38:11.700 I think so, yeah. And they're dealing with a lot.

00:38:16.700 Companies like Facebook, they're dealing with having to do congressional hearings, so they have to go before Congress and answer questions.

00:38:27.800 Then they're dealing with people who are using the system and hate it.

00:38:34.120 And then they're also dealing with some weird stuff that they've done before regarding sharing personal information and security breaches.

00:38:44.000 and then also the work that they do in other countries as well.

00:38:49.000 I don't think it, who knows?

00:38:50.820 I mean, in the United States, it's probably not as bad as it is in, you know, Saudi Arabia.

00:38:55.980 Probably.

00:38:56.600 Yeah, probably.

00:38:57.540 Saudi Arabia has, you know, allows people to have Facebook.

00:39:00.700 I don't know.

00:39:01.300 Yeah.

00:39:02.160 I was going to ask you, so in terms of this, you said you had some problems on YouTube as well.

00:39:07.540 Was it just demonetization or if you had stuff taken down?

00:39:10.080 I think, yeah, I think we've had stuff demonetized.

00:39:13.660 And there was, for a little while, there was another video.

00:39:16.540 It was another Antifa video.

00:39:18.400 It was called Should Antifa Stop?

00:39:21.420 And it was taken down for a little while because, again, it was saying that it was sort of promoting violence.

00:39:29.940 And if you watch this video, Should Antifa Stop?

00:39:32.400 It's not promoting violence.

00:39:34.560 But now it was reinstated, but now it's age-restricted.

00:39:38.540 So you have to be 18 or older.

00:39:39.880 okay um so yeah it's that's it do you think we're rapidly coming to a point where people are

00:39:48.180 misunderstanding irony they just don't get it anymore and you know you can you can make a joke

00:39:55.160 that is ironic you can put a video out that is comedic and people will go oh we'll just simply

00:39:59.200 take that literally therefore get rid of it well yeah i mean look at um you have snopes

00:40:04.660 fact-checking

00:40:06.220 satirical site like the Babylon Bee

00:40:08.900 you know

00:40:10.060 and that's almost its own

00:40:12.260 its own case of oh this can't be

00:40:14.440 this can't be real

00:40:15.360 yeah I don't know what it

00:40:17.440 I don't know what it is that

00:40:18.860 why that's the case that people just aren't getting irony

00:40:22.500 I mean

00:40:23.080 well we have the stereotype in Britain about Americans

00:40:26.300 Americans don't understand sarcasm and irony 1.00

00:40:28.540 so it could just be that it's run by Americans

00:40:30.400 well you guys are really good at it

00:40:31.940 well done

00:40:34.040 Hey, I've got to say, you know, you talk to enough Brits and you're like, was he making fun of me the whole time?

00:40:40.460 It's because we're deeply emotionally repressed.

00:40:43.440 And we can't actually say what we enjoy.

00:40:45.880 So the only thing that we can do is just take the piss out of it.

00:40:48.940 Be calm, carry on.

00:40:50.500 Yeah, yeah.

00:40:51.380 And then, yeah, die of a heart attack.

00:40:53.480 Anyway. 0.55

00:40:53.800 Be passive-aggressive, carry on.

00:40:56.460 Be passive-aggressive.

00:40:57.460 Because that's just fine.

00:40:58.640 Yeah.

00:40:59.000 so uh where is uh where do you think the future is kind of the culture it's an interesting time

00:41:06.580 we're recording this just after the election here in the uk where the the right of center party has

00:41:12.820 absolutely crushed it uh and it seems like a lot of the reasons that that happened was

00:41:18.840 the cultural stuff to some degree so uh the landscape seems to be shifting what do you think

00:41:26.600 if this were to happen, if let's say Donald Trump is reelected in 2020, which seems certainly

00:41:31.900 credible as possible, what do you think the kind of cultural landscape is going to look like?

00:41:36.320 I'm afraid that things might get worse before they get better. Yeah, it's almost like everybody

00:41:47.140 needs to hit rock bottom before we're able to rebuild again. Well, like an alcoholic.

00:41:51.680 Yeah, but 350 million alcoholics need to hit rock bottom. 1.00

00:41:58.100 I was talking to someone who works in Silicon Valley about tech and, in particular, cancel culture.

00:42:06.480 And I was telling them how I really would like to explore that idea of cancel culture in tech

00:42:11.660 and how technology and social media has basically facilitated that 0.98

00:42:17.860 And with the hopes of, you know, getting bringing our culture back to one of forgiveness, one where, you know, hey, you posted something stupid a few years ago. 0.89

00:42:29.680 We're going to let it slide and let it not make you lose your job and you can go about go about your day. 0.87

00:42:34.760 And he said, I think it's a great idea.

00:42:36.900 It's not going to happen.

00:42:38.460 Really?

00:42:39.020 It's not going to happen.

00:42:39.640 He's like he's like he's like, no, it's going to get worse and worse and worse.

00:42:42.980 More people are going to be joining mobs and trying to get rid of people

00:42:47.820 and that sort of thing.

00:42:48.800 And I'm like, oh, he's like an insider.

00:42:51.780 That's great for trigonometry.

00:42:53.160 Yeah.

00:42:53.960 That's hopeful, isn't it?

00:42:55.500 Well, we are kind of in a bunker right now.

00:42:57.620 Yeah.

00:42:58.000 When the bombs start falling, well, you guys will be safe.

00:43:00.880 I don't know where I'll be.

00:43:02.440 No, this structure is very weak.

00:43:05.320 And this isn't going to protect you from Twitter anyway.

00:43:07.760 Yeah.

00:43:08.320 No, no.

00:43:09.320 So it's going to get worse, you think. 0.97

00:43:11.220 We need to hit a robot.

00:43:11.920 Why do you say that?

00:43:13.140 Why do you think the polarization will continue?

00:43:15.880 Is that your sense?

00:43:17.020 Yeah, I'm afraid that it will happen.

00:43:21.180 And while there are a lot of people, I guess, in the States,

00:43:25.460 they call the exhausted majority who are very tired of the squabbling,

00:43:32.300 I wonder how many of them will be exhausted and go to one extreme,

00:43:38.980 go to one extreme or the other.

00:43:41.660 I'm sorry, this is such a pessimistic view.

00:43:44.760 It might be because it was raining in London for the past few days.

00:43:47.600 Welcome to England, my friend. 0.87

00:43:49.560 I have lived in the shitty weather, 0.87

00:43:51.980 great country, shitty weather for 25 years now, 0.94

00:43:55.300 and you never get used to it.

00:43:56.900 To be honest with you, I'm inclined to agree with you.

00:43:59.660 I think the problem is with Twitter, 0.98

00:44:00.980 it just emboldens shitty behavior and narcissism. 0.94

00:44:05.440 And as a result of that, I can just, you know. 0.95

00:44:08.180 And I've seen comedians go through it.

00:44:10.220 They take these extreme positions and then get on a positive feedback loop

00:44:14.260 where people are retweeting them and then they're getting more likes

00:44:17.540 and then that encourages that position. 0.98

00:44:19.820 It's fucking brilliant, mate. 0.99

00:44:20.740 I'm enjoying it. 0.98

00:44:23.020 I wonder, too, just how many times I've tweeted something

00:44:27.260 and then looked back on it a couple of weeks and think,

00:44:31.920 oh, if everybody just knows me from that, it's like, oh, that's a shame

00:44:37.500 You know, because there's a lot more to me than this shitty take.

00:44:42.500 Well, nuance is very hard, isn't it? 0.77

00:44:44.820 Like, I've thought about this often.

00:44:46.520 If you just look at my Twitter feed, you would make assumptions about me that aren't true.

00:44:50.700 Yeah, they are.

00:44:53.520 All right, all right, fine.

00:44:54.420 I'm a Nazi.

00:44:55.180 It's fine.

00:44:55.820 It's fine.

00:44:56.980 Okay.

00:44:57.700 Well, listen, man, it's an interesting time, and I really enjoy what you do.

00:45:02.160 So please keep it up, and we'll keep watching it.

00:45:04.140 Uh, the last question we always ask is what is the one thing that we're not talking about as a society that we ought to be talking about?

00:45:11.880 Ooh, um, well, I think, you know, sort of with the holidays coming up, I, I think it's so important to, um, really embrace the, uh, real life relationships that we have and to let the people who are important to, you know, how important they are.

00:45:29.720 um and i don't think it happens enough and i i'm in a really great position you know being able to

00:45:37.800 do comedy and i also get to have interactions with fans of mine and a little while back i had

00:45:44.740 a fan of mine reach out on facebook and he you know said said to me something that i said pretty

00:45:52.260 heavy he said you know i'm thinking about trying comedy because uh i think it would give my life

00:45:58.540 some meaning to create. Yeah. And, and, and, you know, you hear that and it's like, Whoa,

00:46:03.960 you know, what's going on? I asked him what, you know, what, you know, what's going on in his life.

00:46:07.580 And he said, well, for the past year or so, he's been taking care of his, his grandmother who has

00:46:14.020 dementia. Right. And I said to him, I said, man, you know, you know, what you, what you're doing

00:46:20.500 for your grandmother is such an incredible thing. I mean, um, you know, what can be, you know,

00:46:25.660 more life affirming and then taking care of those who need, who need the most. And, and he,

00:46:32.580 he said, wow, you know, um, thank you for, for reminding me of that. I didn't think about that.

00:46:37.900 And I was thinking like, here, here you have a, you know, a young man who's, you know, doing good

00:46:41.920 in the world, who's been blinded to the good that he's doing. And he only needed was one person to

00:46:47.280 remind him, Hey man, what you're doing is, is, is amazing. And yeah, you can do comedy too. And

00:46:52.760 that could be a part of your life but what you're doing is very meaningful and can have a big impact

00:46:57.720 on on people and i just you know i wish more people would uh uh would do that and embrace it

00:47:03.000 because it can go a really long way well you said that with the holidays coming up this video will

00:47:08.080 probably go out after there's always a holiday if you haven't done that you're a bad person but try

00:47:14.360 and do it now i love it that you deliver that message when everyone's come back from christmas 0.99

00:47:18.320 is entirely fucking sick 0.99

00:47:19.760 of their family. 1.00

00:47:21.960 You've got to go back

00:47:23.000 and see the family again.

00:47:24.240 No, I'd rather do comedy.

00:47:26.140 You might not have enjoyed

00:47:27.100 Christmas dinner,

00:47:27.800 but they are really important.

00:47:29.240 Yeah.

00:47:29.400 So be nice.

00:47:30.740 Because that's where

00:47:31.360 your inheritance will come from.

00:47:32.540 Sorry.

00:47:34.300 This is the cynical

00:47:35.680 British sense of humor.

00:47:36.900 Yeah.

00:47:37.160 Well, thanks very much

00:47:38.240 for coming on, man.

00:47:38.980 If people want to watch your stuff

00:47:40.840 and follow you,

00:47:41.880 where do they do all that?

00:47:42.800 Yeah, WeTheInternetTV

00:47:44.540 on YouTube and Facebook

00:47:46.280 and Twitter.

00:47:46.940 and then I am LouOnTheSubway on Twitter.

00:47:50.100 Perfect.

00:47:50.840 Fantastic.

00:47:51.440 And as always, we'll see you in a week from now

00:47:53.340 with another great episode.

00:47:54.580 Take care.

00:47:55.080 See you next week, guys.

00:48:12.780 Broadway's smash hit,

00:48:14.340 The Neil Diamond Musical,

00:48:15.500 A Beautiful Noise is coming to Toronto.

00:48:18.620 The true story of a kid from Brooklyn destined for something more,

00:48:22.140 featuring all the songs you love, including America,

00:48:25.180 Forever in Blue Jeans, and Sweet Caroline.

00:48:27.880 Like Jersey Boys and Beautiful, the next musical mega hit is here,

00:48:31.960 the Neil Diamond Musical, A Beautiful Noise.

00:48:34.760 April 28th through June 7th, 2026, the Princess of Wales Theatre.

00:48:39.680 Get tickets at mirvish.com.

TRIGGERnometry - March 15, 2020

We the Internet TV： Satire for Polarised Times

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