TRIGGERnometry - Why I Detransitioned - Exulansic

00:00:00.000 My goal for documenting this is to show that these are extremely experimental and we don't know what we're doing because we are trying to create function and create appearance in a person where that's not natural, whereas medicine is supposed to be about restoring a person's natural functioning and preserving it, not trying to put wings on someone to see if it works, which is essentially what we're doing.

00:00:23.200 hello and welcome to trigonometry i'm francis foster i'm constantin kitten and this is a show

00:00:35.200 for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people our brilliant guest today

00:00:40.620 has been banned from youtube so here is excellent for excellent welcome to trigonometry thank you

00:00:47.100 so much i'm so glad to be here i've been really looking forward to this uh it's great to have you

00:00:51.120 on the show i can tell you a lot of our fans particularly the female ones have been looking

00:00:54.880 to this forward to this as well uh tell us who are you how are you where you are why is everyone

00:01:01.080 so looking forward to hearing us interview you uh so so my name is excellent as you said and uh

00:01:08.300 i have been uh making content related to the uh the transite guys for the past year uh and uh the

00:01:15.200 way that i make content is that i find uh largely personal narratives and i respond to them point

00:01:20.260 by point, uh, and try to give a medical context for the horror, horrific nightmares that they're

00:01:25.380 living through, uh, and explain how these are very predictable. And, uh, I'm seeking to kind

00:01:30.800 of educate the audience, uh, uh, in, in a way that, uh, I don't know if you ever saw the show

00:01:34.680 Daria, but I feel like my, my channel, my, my content makes, uh, the show in within that show

00:01:40.360 called six sad world. Uh, so, so, um, in any case, uh, I also have made a lot of responses to the

00:01:49.040 show, I Am Jazz. And the main star of that show had a vaginoplasty when he was 17 after having

00:01:56.040 his puberty suppressed for many years. And then I also have been looking at the medical industry

00:02:02.680 and specific doctors and responding to their comments and their advertisements on TikTok,

00:02:09.380 and just generally attempting to raise the alarm that these are very, very bad

00:02:15.280 interventions that are being given to people on the basis of their mental illness and so I think

00:02:21.260 a lot of people are excited to hear you interview me because they didn't realize that this was going

00:02:25.080 on or they lived through it and and or they they narrowly missed falling into it and are grateful

00:02:31.460 for that so and do you have some kind of personal connection with this issue yes I do I was a

00:02:39.960 trans-identifying for about four years in college. I went to University of California, Berkeley,

00:02:45.580 which is where Judith Butler teaches. And so I was very much steeped in gender ideology

00:02:51.420 and the different interpretations on it. And so I've used that as a kind of a basis for talking

00:02:58.200 about the more religious elements and the different doctrinal splits that have emerged between

00:03:03.400 uh, like what I've been calling trans classic and, and, uh, the church of the non-binaries. 0.99

00:03:08.640 Uh, so, so, uh, uh, I was, uh, very much steeped in that my social circle was steeped in that I

00:03:14.500 was a gender and women's studies major. And so I was, it was, that was just my life for several

00:03:18.580 years. And I watched some friends transition and I saw the reality of it. And, uh, then I went to

00:03:26.060 graduate school and I studied, uh, speech and language pathology. And part of that is, is

00:03:30.700 studying pronouns and pronoun disorders. And so as a clinician, I treat pronoun disorders. I treat

00:03:37.180 people who have had brain injuries and they can use other words, but they can't use pronouns

00:03:40.180 anymore. And I want them to be safe at work. I don't want them to be harassed at work when they

00:03:44.620 get back into work. And these pronoun policies and expectations are very unreasonable and don't 0.96

00:03:49.700 take disability into account. And before we get into the clinical aspect of it, let's just look

00:03:56.300 at your journey what made you identify as trans for four years was there a particular moment was

00:04:03.360 there or was it an always a general discomfort with your body i i feel like i had a general

00:04:11.080 discomfort both with the with my body and with the social expectations that were put on me for

00:04:15.820 being female uh and then i also feel like uh from early childhood a lot that discomfort was

00:04:21.320 largely rooted in an early childhood trauma. I had a significant injury. And I think I just felt

00:04:27.480 very alienated. And I think I looked for an explanation. And the explanation I landed on was

00:04:31.780 it would be different if I was a boy. And that was just kind of at the back of my mind

00:04:37.220 and coming out in, you know, immature ways because I was a child. And then I grew up and

00:04:42.200 got to college and was exposed to these ideas, was exposed to all these people saying, yeah,

00:04:47.600 me too, we're the same. And it was just like, oh, okay, great. I can finally like pursue this in

00:04:53.640 some way. Uh, and, and it was also just kind of the thing to do. Everyone was doing it.

00:04:59.680 And you said everyone was doing it. So then how did it then move on to something more serious?

00:05:06.800 Did, did you have a medical procedures? Did you take, uh, any type of,

00:05:11.660 how can I put this, hormones in order to facilitate a transition?

00:05:17.180 I took a kind of hormone to affect my menstrual cycles,

00:05:24.620 but I didn't take testosterone, fortunately,

00:05:27.160 and I didn't do anything else, which I'm so grateful for.

00:05:30.500 So I didn't take anything that would permanently change me.

00:05:33.640 And the reason I didn't is because I had a non-gender therapist,

00:05:37.040 a real therapist who was able to help me talk through my feelings about it, as well as likely

00:05:42.540 outcomes of pursuing a medical intervention. And I was able to really think about it with somebody

00:05:47.960 that wasn't trying to push me down the assembly line. And I was able to see that this would

00:05:53.660 introduce so much unpredictable horror into my life if I was good to pursue a surgery.

00:05:58.880 So it was a process of talking about it with my therapist over a period of months.

00:06:02.440 and as you can see we're trying to take this conversation in a direction where people who

00:06:08.080 are not clued up on this issue nearly as much as you are can can understand what we're talking

00:06:12.900 about because we've been talking about it for for some time but even we i would certainly not

00:06:17.600 consider ourselves experts in this era at all um so i suppose the the sort of question that many

00:06:23.400 people would be many people would be asking because the general perception i think among

00:06:27.820 most people who are uninitiated in this issue is there are some people who feel that they are

00:06:34.600 in the wrong body. They are not the sex in which they were physically born. And we as a society 0.99

00:06:42.480 have come to a point where we now have the medical toolkit to support those people into making

00:06:50.540 changes to their body that make them feel more comfortable with who they are, quote unquote.

00:06:55.840 that would be i think the mainstream description of of the trans position what is incorrect about

00:07:03.420 that view in your opinion don't say everything i mean the uh first thing is that uh to be born

00:07:12.580 into a body you need to believe in a material or some kind of immaterial essence that exists apart

00:07:18.120 from the body that can be then placed into the body and that's generally considered a soul and

00:07:22.640 So we're dealing with a religious concept here to be born in the wrong body.

00:07:27.480 And then the second part of that is like, well, medical science can now change it.

00:07:31.320 My goal for documenting this is to show that these are extremely experimental and we don't know what we're doing because we are trying to create function and create appearance in a person where that's not natural.

00:07:43.220 Whereas medicine is supposed to be about restoring a person's natural functioning and preserving it, not trying to put wings on someone to see if it works, which is essentially what we're doing.

00:07:55.960 It's a great point. What effect do these therapies have? Particularly, you can talk about it from your own experience, but also the therapies that you, thank the Lord, avoided.

00:08:07.940 uh so the the the one i needed it turned out that that i have a sensitivity to estrogen and so i had

00:08:17.060 noticed that and then i had made inferences about it and i had i had uh wanted to to to to address

00:08:22.640 it so i i got very uh fortunate in in that i was able to be observant and make make those kind of

00:08:27.220 inferences and that i happened to also just have that sensitivity for an unrelated medical problem

00:08:31.360 that i didn't know i had at the time and now i do so i i just you know it worked and i'm glad that

00:08:36.720 that was all I did. The testosterone, the thing about testosterone is that it is a very powerful

00:08:42.500 anxiety reliever. And so I watched it work really, really well to relieve untreated anxiety issues

00:08:50.540 in a person that I was close to. And it was the first thing they tried and they didn't try

00:08:56.020 anything else. And it did all these other changes to her. So those changes that are happening in

00:09:00.520 the voice when you're taking testosterone and it makes their voice drop, those changes are

00:09:05.480 happening because those tissues are sensitive to testosterone and testosterone makes them grow

00:09:09.340 but your voice is not the only place those tissues exist those tissues are also in a lot of very

00:09:13.320 important organs like the heart and so so my concern is that we're you know we we know that

00:09:18.600 that that testosterone increases your risk of heart events that's known when that men men die

00:09:23.520 earlier of causes they don't they don't they don't just expire because that's what what their due

00:09:28.080 dates had on them when they came out so so they die of specific ways and they typically die of

00:09:32.620 heart problems and and it's well acknowledged by these people that trans men are shortening

00:09:37.020 their lifespans by doing this by taking these drugs and the theory is well it's not shorter

00:09:41.960 than a regular man which there's no evidence for and there's significant evidence against that

00:09:45.580 claim um the fact remains they're giving these teenagers drugs that will shorten their lifespan

00:09:52.100 and they know it for for a mental health issue and puberty blockers is something that we hear

00:09:58.720 a lot and young people taking them. Now, obviously, I'm not a physician, but the moment that I hear

00:10:06.840 that they're giving kids puberty blockers to stop them going through puberty is horrendous and

00:10:13.920 awful. Could you explain a little bit of what it's like when you're on puberty blockers?

00:10:19.480 And number two, not just that, what are the long-term implications of taking puberty blockers?

00:10:24.820 Right. So puberty blockers are a class of drugs called gonadotropin-releasing hormones or hormone analogs. And so the one that they give that I'm most familiar with, which would be Lupron, but they give several others now, is I believe 20 times as powerful as the version that your body makes.

00:10:42.220 and the version that your body makes works by developing certain structures in the brain

00:10:48.620 which then release other hormones that cause the gonads to develop which then release other

00:10:53.960 hormones that cause the secondary sex characteristics to develop so so basically we are we are putting

00:10:59.540 the pollution in the water very far upstream from where it was and more towns are going to be

00:11:04.000 affected as a result so so uh the way that this hormone works in the body is that it has a pulsing

00:11:10.580 release that causes it to grow. Kind of like how plants grow because of pulsing exposure to

00:11:16.580 sunlight. You have day, night, day, night, it's pulsing. And so that pulsing is not happening

00:11:24.940 if you use a puberty blocker implant because it's a continuous slow release. And that's the way that

00:11:30.240 they work is that they interrupt the pulsation. That pulsing is a very complex pattern that changes

00:11:35.660 according to things like time of day and time of year. So, so it's doing a lot. It's they,

00:11:41.140 they're, they're putting their brains in a dark room so that they can't grow and leaving them

00:11:45.080 there. And, and, and it causes a profound implications. And so one thing I've talked

00:11:49.380 about with I am jazz a lot is that my suspicion is that his, the P reblocker implants, uh,

00:11:54.360 warped the development of his hypothalamus. Uh, and we know that there's a, we, we, we, we can

00:12:00.960 infer a lot about how drugs work or might work from comparing them to genetic disorders that do

00:12:05.300 similar things. And there's a genetic disorder called Prader-Willi syndrome, which Jazz

00:12:09.340 Jennings does not have, of course. There's no reason to think he has it. But I believe

00:12:13.600 that they have induced similar effects by using a drug that mimics the hormone that

00:12:20.700 is affected in that condition. And that hormone, that condition is caused by, it affects the

00:12:27.100 gene that codes for gonadotropin-releasing hormone. This causes damage to the hypothalamus's

00:12:32.460 development and that causes uh overeating uh and and so jazz jennings is really struggling with

00:12:38.620 with uh eating he's he's very very obese right now because he can't stop eating and uh so so it

00:12:44.380 that condition desensitizes basically the hypothalamus to oxytocin so therefore they can't

00:12:49.660 um they don't get the comfort of comforting reinforcement of the eating and and why is it

00:12:55.740 that we trivialize this excellency why is it that this is seen as something good that you know that

00:13:04.920 if if a child is suffering from gender dysphoria if you're putting them on puberty blockers

00:13:09.600 you're doing the right and kind thing when what you are doing and like you've just said yourself

00:13:15.400 is irreversibly damaging their body yeah it's horrendous it it is and it and it affects their

00:13:22.040 bone health too because you need those stex hormones especially estrogen to to develop

00:13:27.280 bone density because you know your your bones are growing and when they grow your the volume

00:13:33.780 and density is changing and therefore unless you have something to increase the rate that it can

00:13:38.940 become dense they will not become dense and so we know that these these lead to things like

00:13:44.080 osteoporosis early in life 20s and 30s for kids that were put on them as children and not even

00:13:50.140 for the years that they're putting them on them now for the puberty blockade they're just just

00:13:54.340 for you know a few months for for things like precocious puberty and so I believe your question

00:14:00.060 was why why ours is seen as so nice there's been a huge propaganda push and there's a lot of money

00:14:04.880 behind this telling people it's reversible you know you are you're this way you're not forcing

00:14:11.060 them to go through their natural puberty which is to me an acknowledgement that we're playing

00:14:16.020 god here we know we know that we're trying to change nature uh and we're not we're not trying

00:14:21.260 to heal we're trying to actually control and and and so so uh you know i'm an atheist i don't

00:14:26.120 object to playing god on principle but here clearly it's causing a lot of harm hey francis

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00:15:56.860 why do you think this has been mainstreamed so rapidly to the point now where i think a lot of

00:16:06.940 people the the version of the story i i presented to you at the beginning about how there are some

00:16:12.940 people who are born in the wrong body how did that become such a mainstream thing to the point where

00:16:17.500 we've had laws change to accommodate this version of of events uh we've had uh you know we have the

00:16:24.480 tavistock clinic here in the uk that that was doing a lot of this type of stuff how has this

00:16:30.520 become such a mainstream thing we know you've been waiting and your full great outdoors comedy

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00:16:48.780 It's a really good question because it seems like people should know better.

00:17:10.200 I feel like we are living through something similar to the satanic panic of the 80s.

00:17:15.040 And so there's kind of a moral panic here

00:17:17.580 that there are all these kids

00:17:19.040 that were destined to self-harm or in their lives

00:17:22.720 because of our lack of recognition.

00:17:24.700 And now we have a chance to do the right thing.

00:17:27.120 And so there's kind of a moral panic

00:17:28.800 and there's a mass hysteria too.

00:17:30.700 And the mass hysteria, the mass delusion

00:17:32.180 is that you can be born in the wrong body.

00:17:35.100 You know, this idea that there is this class of people

00:17:37.780 that need these things.

00:17:39.680 And you don't agree with that?

00:17:40.560 You don't think anyone can be born in the wrong body?

00:17:43.020 No, I think you're born as the body

00:17:44.420 you are i i think that that you your uh consciousness is an emergent property of your

00:17:49.440 brain and is is secondary to the brain i don't i don't think that your consciousness is placed

00:17:53.880 there by a deity people can disagree i don't think that this secular government can uh write

00:17:58.860 laws on the basis of the theory that there there are souls that can be in the wrong body and

00:18:03.720 therefore i need to use pronouns that pretend that i believe that they have a different kind

00:18:07.220 of soul than they clearly seem to have based on their body because i don't believe in souls

00:18:11.880 do you think part of the problem ex-Lansic is this I think it's fair to say and I think the

00:18:18.040 vast majority of people would agree that in the 80s and the 70s we made a dreadful dreadful mess

00:18:25.240 of gay rights where gay men and gay women went through a horrendous time they went through a

00:18:31.500 horrendous time it was awful and there was a real struggle for them to be acknowledged on the same

00:18:37.920 level as other people in society and thank god the vast majority of people now see them that way

00:18:45.540 do you think people are looking at this trans rights issue and thinking to themselves hang on

00:18:50.280 we messed up so badly before that this is a new gay rights movement yeah i don't want to be seen 1.00

00:18:56.420 as one of those horrible people telling uh gay people that they had no right to exist yeah yeah

00:19:02.380 so they're they're it's waving them through they're saying we don't we don't want to go through that 0.98

00:19:05.460 again hurry up just come on in but but what we're dealing with though is is a group that is

00:19:09.820 aggressively mimicking uh the gay rights struggle copying our language copying our experience and 0.62

00:19:14.620 then turning around and saying that we are bigots for not uh wanting uh to sleep with the opposite

00:19:19.700 sex that that is transphobic and that we're bad for saying that we only want to sleep with females

00:19:25.100 there was the reason i started speaking out was the there was a huge debacle on uh tiktok last

00:19:30.440 march where a guy had posted a video saying that he was only attracted to females who were born

00:19:35.740 female and he was calling it super straight and and the whole app went nuts and we had all of these 0.77

00:19:43.260 adults pretending that they had never heard of homosexuality and so i just started being like 0.59

00:19:48.320 speaking out and be like no i my my sexual orientations is like a like a dousing rod it's

00:19:52.920 like i can tell i can tell that they're not women and i'm not going to pretend that i think that

00:19:56.420 they're women but isn't the problem as well that there are trans people you know there are people 0.99

00:20:04.220 who have suffering from some from gender dysphoria who feel a severe discomfort in their own body

00:20:09.400 and what is happening with the politicization of their identity is these people are being

00:20:15.260 turned into political pawns which is just making the entire situation worse for them

00:20:20.320 Hmm. Uh, I, uh, yeah, I, I agree with that, that there, there are people that would just prefer to

00:20:28.800 like live their lives and they, they might want to dress in a way that is gender nonconforming

00:20:33.860 or adopt a non-traditional name or this or that. Um, I don't think it's ethical for doctors to

00:20:41.220 participate by, by attempting to medicalize a mental illness in that way. Uh, despite the known

00:20:47.320 effects on other on organs i've and i've said this too that that some of these people you know

00:20:54.640 there's there's a lot of propaganda push that that you need specific trans rights and trans

00:20:59.040 people aren't protected in employment trans people aren't protected in housing i totally disagree

00:21:02.740 with that i feel like they're already clearly well protected under many existing uh categories

00:21:07.700 including religion disability sex and sexuality and so i don't understand why these forces are

00:21:13.000 propagandizing trans people that they don't have rights they could assert if their landlord's

00:21:16.720 discriminating against them under those categories uh so so i i think that that they are uh manipulating

00:21:23.480 mentally ill people into thinking that they are much more oppressed and much more marginalized

00:21:28.080 than they are and these are people who are already very anxious perhaps because a doctor gave them a

00:21:33.340 drug that blocked testosterone and they're male and they need testosterone and that makes them

00:21:37.480 anxious because we know that lack of testosterone makes men anxious you keep uh you keep and this 0.89

00:21:43.100 going to sound like a stupid question, but, uh, I'm asking it in order, knowing that there will 0.95

00:21:47.420 be a lot of people asking it in their heads, watching and listening to this, which is you 0.99

00:21:51.140 keep referring to, uh, to gender dysphoria as a mental illness. Yes. Why, why do you say that?

00:21:59.820 Because again, the mainstream narrative would be, well, people are just born this way and this is

00:22:05.040 how they feel inside. Yeah. Uh, so the thing is that, that, that we're also told though, that,

00:22:11.200 this is a situation where the person can be reasonably expected to self-harm or try to end

00:22:17.160 their life if we don't intervene. And mentally well, people aren't trying to hurt themselves or

00:22:22.800 end their life. That's not a mentally well thing to do. It's a very, very confused, self-sabotaging

00:22:28.860 thing to do. And I'm not saying that I don't understand what it's like to feel that way.

00:22:35.040 I certainly do. But it's not a sign of mental health to want to do that. And so if I'm told

00:22:39.580 that this group has this extremely high likelihood, 41% I've been told of wanting to try to do that,

00:22:45.000 that's a sign of mental distress. And so when you have this, any sort of chronic mental distress

00:22:49.540 that really impacts your life, to me, that's when it rises to the level of a mental illness.

00:22:53.980 And there's, unless you have good evidence that you have a physiological problem,

00:22:58.940 you should treat it as a mental illness. Well, I suppose the argument from people who are in favor 0.96

00:23:05.380 of helping people transition is that the transitioning alleviates the distress.

00:23:13.000 And, you know, we've had people on the show,

00:23:15.520 we've had a lot of trans people on the show who are gender critical,

00:23:19.720 but we've also had at least one person on the show who had transitioned

00:23:23.060 and was very happy to have transitioned.

00:23:26.220 So the argument, I suppose, goes is there are some people like that

00:23:29.960 for whom, not just one, in fact, we had several.

00:23:32.100 So Buck Angel, for example, who was, I think he's very happy to have transitioned.

00:23:38.020 India Willoughby again.

00:23:39.940 So isn't it the case that for some people this is a solution that solves their problems?

00:23:47.400 So there's a couple of things with that.

00:23:50.680 One would be the existence of the placebo effect.

00:23:53.180 If you take a substance and expect it to help you, you will likely experience some subjective benefit from that.

00:23:59.240 and a placebo effect is a real chemical effect.

00:24:03.940 We can block it with certain drugs

00:24:05.820 that I believe the ones that block opiate receptors

00:24:08.180 will block the placebo effect.

00:24:09.800 There's other drugs that will potentiate it.

00:24:11.400 So it's a real effect.

00:24:12.580 So we have that issue

00:24:13.380 that these drugs may just be placebos.

00:24:16.200 Maybe they just needed a regular placebo 0.99

00:24:17.780 because they're mentally ill 1.00

00:24:18.840 and so they needed to believe 0.99

00:24:20.120 that they were being treated for their non-illness

00:24:22.240 in order to not experience the symptoms

00:24:24.320 of the mental illness.

00:24:25.860 And so at that point you're like,

00:24:26.960 is it justified?

00:24:28.040 could there have been a better placebo that didn't cause them to have heart disease and

00:24:32.420 die several years earlier than they would have. Or in Buck Angel's case, I believe Buck had a

00:24:37.740 sepsis from the vaginal atrophy from the testosterone and also nearly died from that.

00:24:43.480 And so there's a huge community pressure against regretting these interventions.

00:24:47.000 And so they don't. They vote very vocally or very happy about them if they want to remain

00:24:50.340 a church member in good standing. And then finally, as I mentioned, things like testosterone,

00:24:58.040 estrogen they they can have um they're having metabolic effects in the brain we know that and

00:25:03.860 we know that they can interact with anxiety and other things so it's very possible that that they

00:25:08.420 are uh treating a mental a physical illness and or using it as a psychotropic mental illness

00:25:14.860 treatment an anxiety reliever and that that's why their life is better on it and again we're back to

00:25:20.440 was there a better way that didn't cause these other problems that are then going to burden

00:25:25.400 society with these issues like i uh having having to take care of some of these these complications

00:25:30.740 in a nursing home in a person who's who's you know several decades down the road and and these

00:25:35.740 problems didn't go away that they acquired in their 20s i interviewed somebody that that underwent

00:25:40.420 vaginoplasty to or sorry to phalloplasty to children's hospital and vaginectomy and the

00:25:45.760 vaginectomy was so so botched that that this person ended up with a um a colostomy back from it

00:25:52.200 Right. So based on that, then, am I hearing you correctly that you, if it were up to you,

00:26:00.480 people would not be transitioning, they would be getting some kind of talk, talking therapy

00:26:05.900 to help them deal with the mental illness of feeling like they're in the wrong body,

00:26:11.720 but they wouldn't be getting any physical or hormonal help, if you like, if you can call it

00:26:17.340 help? So the, I would not agree with that because we use medications to treat mental illnesses at

00:26:26.700 times. What I want is for these patients to have the full range of options and not be told that

00:26:31.240 this specific mental illness means that only this one specific treatment will help because there's

00:26:36.440 not really any evidence for that. We've never done a placebo-controlled double-blinded trial

00:26:41.320 of whether mastectomies make you feel better because we can't do a sham mastectomy. We can't

00:26:46.680 pretend to do a mastectomy and see if they feel better anyway. They're going to know. The doctors

00:26:51.280 are going to know. We can't do a double-blinded trial. These aggressive radical interventions

00:26:54.920 are justified in terms of cancer because we know that the cancer is about to kill them. So it's

00:26:59.060 okay to do these things that don't have double-blinded controlled trials because there's

00:27:02.220 still a reasonable reason to think it'll help. We don't have that for here. We're trying to cut

00:27:06.700 out the feelings cancer. It doesn't work. But whereas if they're getting a comprehensive

00:27:12.780 intervention. Hormonal modification may be a part of it. I do not believe that cross-sex hormones

00:27:18.640 at cross-sex doses are clinically justified for mental illness. Now, I don't think there's any

00:27:22.240 evidence for that. However, I know that for my case, that I personally benefited from a hormonal

00:27:27.360 intervention that was not a cross-sex hormone to modify something that turned out to be a physical

00:27:32.080 illness. And so I wouldn't bar it wholesale because these hormones have profound effects

00:27:39.060 in the brain um for for both sexes uh even the sex hormones that are associated with your sex

00:27:45.420 can be affecting your mental health so so i i don't i wouldn't want to say that having gender

00:27:50.520 dysphoria precludes certain options either but these options are bad these options are very bad

00:27:55.920 and unjustified and was there a specific moment for you where you were in your period as a trans

00:28:03.440 person where you actually thought, hang on, this is a right, there's something not right here

00:28:10.140 that basically put you on the path to recovery, as it were, mentally?

00:28:15.720 Yeah, it was a few things. One was that the speed that someone I was very close with went from

00:28:23.680 her first appointment with the gender therapist to a mastectomy. It was very concerning. It was

00:28:28.460 about eight months i felt like that was way too fast um at her age she was like 21 and and had

00:28:34.540 no history of it like it was all it was like a totally rapid onset because she met me of all

00:28:39.680 things and i and i introduced her to the concept and then she had a head injury uh she's hit by a

00:28:46.620 car and so everyone knew everyone all of her doctors knew because she went to the hospital 0.62

00:28:51.100 she's overnight it was well known and they still let her go through with it a couple months later

00:28:55.500 you know she needed she needed actual therapy to deal with the head injury uh i do brain injury 1.00

00:29:00.980 therapy now she needed she needed concussion therapy and they just they just waved her through

00:29:05.020 and uh i watched that recovery i was i was very close right up in the aftermath watched her drain 1.00

00:29:10.860 her her blood bags watched her chest feed a bag that was attached to it through a tube and and 1.00

00:29:17.800 it just was i could just tell it just wasn't right it was this person was was engaged in a

00:29:24.700 in a pursuit of, of, uh, religious ecstasy. And then, and then they got the real, the real

00:29:29.960 turning point for me was when, uh, she got really upset that she came across a study for an HIV drug

00:29:36.200 that was about preventing transmission between, uh, gay men or men, men who are, were sleeping

00:29:41.680 with men at least. And, um, she thought that she deserved to be in the trial because she was

00:29:48.140 on testosterone and that made her a man now. And, and it was just so unreasonable. I was like,

00:29:54.580 no you're not you're not male and it's really important for drug research that we have a male

00:29:59.440 research trial and a female research trial because when you treat females as a kind of male 0.65

00:30:03.640 females die from the drugs because we're not men we're categorically different our biology is very 0.96

00:30:08.820 different wow and what happened to this person uh we we kind of uh lost touch uh after i i went

00:30:21.140 off to grad school we tried to stay in touch a little bit but then but then uh lost touch so i'm

00:30:25.800 not exactly sure what happened to her um after that i know that she she went on to to kind of

00:30:30.600 get a stuck working for some trans organization i think so so but i worry about her i don't i don't

00:30:39.220 know what happened after that and these people who transition and then decide to detransition

00:30:44.660 what are their lives like excellency i know they're a broad group but on the whole are there

00:30:49.320 any patterns or correlations that you notice well the the ones that i've talked to uh there's

00:30:55.220 certainly a lot of uh sadness about uh the permanent changes to their voice um and and uh

00:31:02.820 um or in some cases more semi-permanent because they're really they're they're it's very

00:31:08.060 unpredictable uh what kinds of sensitivity you have in your voice and they're giving them very

00:31:13.000 random doses some of these doctors for for random lengths of time so it's it's it can be very

00:31:17.120 unpredictable how it'll affect them. Um, and then there, there's other bodily changes that

00:31:22.140 are permanent, um, genitalia changes that can be permanent after testosterone. So there's,

00:31:26.000 there's a lot of just regret. A lot of people saying they didn't, nobody told them a lot of

00:31:30.320 these things. Um, and, uh, uh, sadness, uh, having undergone a mastectomy after just a couple months

00:31:38.940 because they were in their first ever manic episode and nobody slowed them down because

00:31:44.320 of the cultural belief that if you have this specific preoccupation, you know, it's never

00:31:49.620 anything else. It's always standalone. It's always clearly point A to point B. You just need this and

00:31:55.260 you'll be fine. It's a very simplistic model. I'll be honest with you because I used to be a

00:32:05.580 teacher. So I've taught kids for many years, for 12 years. And towards the end of my career,

00:32:10.740 i started to notice kids saying that they were you know gender non-conforming that they were

00:32:16.780 non-binary and and i looked at a lot of these kids and my initial reaction was like no you're just a

00:32:23.620 gay kid you're just gay and that's difficult to come to terms with you know it is you know and 1.00

00:32:30.120 you know it's so hard yeah it's even in 2022 it's not easy particularly when all you want to do as 0.70

00:32:36.480 a kid is fit in it's embarrassing it's embarrassing yeah no i it's it's it's really hard for me to come

00:32:44.220 out really really hard uh and i wanted there to be another way and it makes sense it makes sense

00:32:49.820 like oh maybe i'm just supposed to be a boy and i also like at the time i was very uh i thought of

00:32:55.700 it as like that that you you learn a social language from other people by watching them

00:32:59.940 and you kind of do but the problem with that theory was the idea that you would only learn

00:33:03.640 one or the other sexist patterns or that there was one set of binary patterns that you'd pick

00:33:09.080 one or the other. It's like, it's, it's obviously it's just shared a dialogue. And, and, you know,

00:33:13.340 that's kind of the basis of drag, for instance, is, is this taking on the other, other person's

00:33:18.120 way of, you know, behavioral speech patterns, if you will. And so, so I, I fully agree that

00:33:27.200 there's, there's a lot of confusion when you're growing up as a gay kid in a society that's,

00:33:32.060 very heteronormative and and you're you you're watching all this media as a child and the person

00:33:37.240 that you want to be with only wants to be with the other sex and so it's it's confusing and it's hard

00:33:43.700 and so you you come up with other reasons why you don't have to be the embarrassing thing of being

00:33:47.520 gay and and you know eventually you have to kind of come to terms but at the time in in college

00:33:53.500 like you know i i was i was trying to date a man who was trans feminine on the theory that

00:34:00.780 you know it was good enough he was a very feminine man very very feminine but no it's not the same 0.97

00:34:06.520 it's just not it doesn't work because whenever i speak to people about this the first people that

00:34:13.220 i spoke to who were raising the alarm about this were actually gay women what do you think it is 0.86

00:34:19.920 in particular about gay women who were the first ones to notice it were the first ones to raise 0.64

00:34:26.820 alarm were the first ones to really talk about this uh i think a few things um one is that that

00:34:34.220 lesbians are targeted by the trans identifying men a lot more than men are targeted by trans

00:34:39.640 identifying women it does happen especially lately it seems more and more that that we're

00:34:43.520 having trans identifying women identifying as gay men and then going and harassing gay men for not 0.88

00:34:48.180 wanting to to be with them but i feel like that was at least initially more of a problem of men

00:34:52.420 towards lesbians. Uh, and, and so that's why we saw it more there. I think we also like puberty 0.79

00:34:59.500 is physically uncomfortable if you're a female. And so I think it's, we're, we're more likely to,

00:35:04.340 to feel a bit alienated and dissociated from our bodies as a result of that. Uh, just, just

00:35:09.180 everything that's, that's growing and changing just hurts on a physical level. So, um, I think

00:35:14.720 that, that it was perhaps easier for, for women to understand why, why the rapid onset thing would

00:35:19.580 appeal to women um from the statistics i've seen it seems like the girls are are making up the bulk 1.00

00:35:28.600 of these referrals these days it's it and that's that's represented a real shift um away from from

00:35:35.040 the past and uh and also just just just the reality of of uh female only spaces and and and

00:35:46.200 being being victimized by voyeurs and flashers and you know all these things just make us more

00:35:50.840 aware of the fact that of male predators and being uh gay you know there's no there's no 0.84

00:35:58.000 confusion about like i didn't want that i didn't i didn't want this interaction there i was not

00:36:02.540 sending signals no signals were sent and i've told you i don't want males that's a really interesting

00:36:09.420 point that i haven't heard before but it makes so much sense makes a lot of sense and you mentioned

00:36:14.820 the rapid onset stuff i mean whichever position you're coming at this issue from i think the one

00:36:20.440 thing that everybody would accept is this issue has shot up to prominence and partly that is not

00:36:26.160 only the coverage of it but it's also the sheer numbers have changed completely in the last few

00:36:31.220 years why has that happened i have a few things i think uh well covid i think has been a huge huge

00:36:40.120 issue. That's something that, that I did a review of a five person panel from Boston Children's

00:36:45.960 Hospital, which is the hospital that did the vaginectomy on the person that I interviewed

00:36:49.520 that I just was discussing who ended up with the colostomy bag. And in that interview,

00:36:53.080 they were saying that, oh, well, they think their theory was that everyone is at home during COVID

00:36:56.460 and they all just felt safer to come out. I think that everyone's home at COVID on TikTok and they

00:37:00.320 all were bored and they thought of something that would be interesting. And they thought of a

00:37:03.100 scavenger hunt that would be fun to pursue. So, so I think that was part of it. Everybody was just

00:37:09.600 kind of, you know, home thinking about it. I also think, uh, uh, you know, the, one of the,

00:37:14.680 the manufacturers of the, of one of the puberty blockers got in trouble, uh, a number of years

00:37:19.780 ago for, for paying doctors to prescribe them, uh, for, for their, uh, precocious puberty. So I,

00:37:24.960 I just feel like there's, there's a huge amount of money behind this. And we, it came out, uh,

00:37:29.040 in the last couple of weeks that like, uh, the NHS, I believe is, is also starting to pay doctors

00:37:34.200 per patient for prescribing the cross-sex hormones.

00:37:38.400 So I don't know whether that specifically they know about that with puberty blockers,

00:37:41.780 but it wouldn't surprise me if the manufacturer was doing that at least privately.

00:37:46.200 But why are more people presenting with this issue?

00:37:52.200 I think that they've heard about it and it seems like an explanation that makes sense

00:37:56.520 and it makes their distress not their fault and therefore not really their responsibility.

00:38:00.700 uh and it makes it other people's fault and it's an opportunity to uh kind of control other people

00:38:06.600 around you uh and and regain a sense of control that way but i think the big thing is that it's

00:38:12.120 popular it's all over social media uh and um that there's there's there's a lot of money behind it

00:38:18.920 i've also seen a video where it was a um a young person on tiktok i think they said they were 14

00:38:25.380 or 15. And they said that the doctor had actually called their parents and direct marketed puberty

00:38:31.020 blockers to the child on the basis of the fact that the doctor thought the child had gender

00:38:35.320 dysphoria based on the child's outfit, based on the child's preference for a baseball cap and a

00:38:41.240 collared shirt. And the child said that she hadn't heard of that before, but it made a lot of sense

00:38:45.680 and that she was mad because her parents were mad and said no, but she was going to still try to

00:38:49.720 figure out how to get on it. And this is posted to TikTok by the child. So. Right. So you basically

00:38:56.140 got a tomboy who walks into a doctor's office and works, walks out with a prescription.

00:39:00.740 Yeah. And, and, uh, so obviously they're going to be targeting, uh, uh, lesbians disproportionately, 1.00

00:39:06.140 uh, who are a bit uncomfortable with the fact that, that they don't look like the group that,

00:39:10.400 that, that is a track that, that the group that they want to be with is attracted to,

00:39:14.340 you know, it's, it's, it's, I feel like normal and natural. I'm not saying any, any, any girl

00:39:17.920 that dresses in like a tomboy is gay. 0.99

00:39:21.200 But if you go after the tomboys, 1.00

00:39:22.820 you're going to get a lot of gays. 1.00

00:39:24.180 You're going to get a lot of lesbians. 1.00

00:39:26.180 Yeah, and it also makes sense

00:39:28.140 that if someone appears,

00:39:29.520 you know, if it's a woman 1.00

00:39:30.620 who appears more masculine

00:39:31.900 than the average female

00:39:34.720 or the other way, a boy

00:39:35.800 who appears more feminine 0.72

00:39:36.860 than the average boy,

00:39:38.960 inevitably, they're going to feel

00:39:40.620 more uncomfortable with their bodies

00:39:42.300 because they don't feel

00:39:43.380 that they're conforming,

00:39:44.740 which then means they're then

00:39:45.700 going to be put at risk

00:39:46.660 of transitioning.

00:39:47.920 yeah particularly in your teenage years and let's talk about autism because i feel that

00:39:52.980 this is something that we don't talk about enough i read a start i think it was 35 percent of all

00:39:58.820 people or children who transition are autistic or have been identified as having autism wow

00:40:05.400 now that to me is just a horrifying stat can you can you talk a little bit about that what is the

00:40:14.240 between autism and gender dysphoria are we seeing more kids with autism uh being put through this

00:40:20.020 path uh sure yeah i'm happy to talk about that so so um autism has two main uh components which

00:40:28.140 would be the sensory component and the social pragmatic component and the social pragmatic

00:40:32.620 component would be social language social thinking theory of mind understanding other people and why

00:40:37.560 they do what they do and so as a speech pathologist i treat social pragmatic disorders and so i treat

00:40:43.020 a lot of autistic kids. I don't, I don't diagnose autism, but I can treat the social pragmatic

00:40:47.700 component of it if it's present. And with autism, that's, that's core diagnostic. So it's, it's

00:40:52.280 present. And so, so the issue with that is that they don't understand how these interactions

00:41:01.320 unfold. And so they're very, very more likely to think that they have to look a certain way for

00:41:06.420 them to unfold correctly. Like they don't, they don't get it. They don't get why people are like

00:41:11.100 that. And they want, they want to have successful interactions and they get in their head that they

00:41:14.920 need to be the other sex, perhaps because they're gay and they have only seen those kinds of 0.98

00:41:19.060 interactions successful when they're opposite sex interactions. And, and so, so, so I believe 0.94

00:41:24.980 that. And then the sensory component too, is something that may, that may change,

00:41:30.820 especially the anxiety component when you give them an anxiety relieving drug like testosterone.

00:41:36.040 And then we're back to like, well, would something else be better? So, so I do think that, that

00:41:40.320 there's a connection there where somebody who lacks social pragmatic understanding and theory

00:41:46.940 of mind is more likely to come to bad conclusions about why they're socially unsuccessful.

00:41:55.140 Yeah. And particularly with autism, where they do tend to feel more anxiety because the way they

00:42:02.340 move through the world is very different. It's very difficult for them, like you said,

00:42:06.220 to understand social interactions. And if you don't understand the rules of a game and

00:42:10.260 you're constantly being full to play the game. It's incredibly frustrating and anxiety inducing.

00:42:16.400 So that does make complete sense. And then they have a difficulty in general,

00:42:21.200 which I believe to be on a neurological level with transitions, with transitioning. And that's

00:42:28.700 kind of infamous for autism. They don't want to move to the next activity. They'll get very upset.

00:42:33.820 And conversations are full of transitions. My turn, your turn, my turn. Those are transitions.

00:42:39.020 And if you if you are emotionally very upset from transitions, if they fatigue you on a chemical level and it does with autism, it's chemically fatiguing somehow.

00:42:49.800 They don't have the neural structures in place for that stamina to cope with all these transitions.

00:42:54.640 You know, it's it's you want to have things like a preferred topic.

00:42:57.420 You only want to talk about Pokemon because then it's my turn.

00:43:00.360 Then I can just talk and I know what you're going to say.

00:43:02.240 You're going to say, oh, cool.

00:43:03.220 And then I get to say another fact and then you say, oh, cool.

00:43:05.340 And then I get to say another fact.

00:43:06.460 And then, you know, around and around we go.

00:43:08.400 And that's a way of controlling the conversation to reduce anxiety and to minimize conversational transitions and unexpected turns.

00:43:17.860 And being trans is another way of structuring conversations and structuring friendships for people who are socially deficient.

00:43:24.840 Something to talk about.

00:43:25.660 yeah it's something to talk about and particularly when you look at the rate of diagnosis with boys

00:43:32.580 and girls far more boys get diagnosed with autism than girls do because it presents in a far more

00:43:39.240 obvious way with boys whereas girls they tend to you know boys are also genetically different so

00:43:45.580 so yeah they're more prone to it for for chemical reasons they don't have a second x chromosome

00:43:49.460 coding for a lot of things so they're getting a lower dose of certain chemicals and so boys

00:43:54.260 develop more slowly than girls across the board but as a result we don't identify i diagnose a

00:44:02.040 lot of girls with autism so do you think it could be that these girls are autistic overlooked i don't

00:44:07.180 know if it's autism specifically but i do think that that girls are overlooked for developmental 1.00

00:44:11.080 disorders um that that make them uh i guess uh they're more likely to just be stigmatized for

00:44:19.060 their lack of social understanding, I believe, and expected to figure it out. And also, girls 1.00

00:44:26.100 tend to be more verbal, whether they have autism or not. And so that might be a reason that it gets

00:44:31.480 overlooked. Some very problematic truth bombs being dropped here about girls being more verbal

00:44:37.020 and stuff like that. Girls and boys are different. Controversial. There's very much a female brain. 1.00

00:44:42.560 It's very controversial. I will defend this hill.

00:44:44.460 well we will all i think defend this very controversial hill hey francis do you like

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00:45:04.100 a panic attack when you got overtaken by a granny she was driving very aggressively and used 1.00

00:45:09.120 disgusting language for a woman of her age. Well, for those of you who are bored of the

00:45:14.080 shouting and nonsense that is spread by the mainstream media, you have to check out The

00:45:18.300 Lost Debate. It's a perfect podcast if you like politics and friendly discussion. It's three

00:45:23.340 mates from across the political spectrum talking about the big issues without finger pointing and

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00:46:01.220 And look, I suppose the question I want to ask you is,

00:46:04.160 you know we've been talking about this issue for probably three years now two or three years since

00:46:09.480 we first sort of ventured into it and the more we learned the more horrified we became as to some of

00:46:15.340 the things that had been happening we've had former whistleblowers from the tavistock clinic here in

00:46:20.320 the uk and and many many other people on the show to talk about it since the first time do you feel

00:46:26.520 like some progress is being made in at least slowing the pendulum if not perhaps getting it

00:46:33.980 to start swinging back towards the sensible direction or you know or do you feel that the

00:46:40.500 madness is accelerating because it's kind of hard to know on the one hand in the UK we see some of

00:46:44.880 the debate is being had and some of the laws are not quite going as far as they might have done and

00:46:49.740 various organizations that used to be very powerful are no longer quite having the same 0.98

00:46:55.140 influence on the other hand every time you open a fucking newspaper there's some some trans person 0.99

00:47:00.100 who's got quote-unquote her penis out in the middle of the street we as we're recording this 0.99

00:47:04.440 has happened right here and the day before we read a story in the in the prison in new york 0.99

00:47:09.640 a trans woman impregnated several women and and on and on it goes so is someone who's paying 0.89

00:47:15.200 attention to this what do you think is happening are we moving towards a healthy direction uh or

00:47:21.440 or is it just getting worse it's so hard to say i think i've seen some promising things such as

00:47:27.760 Texas's stance on whether these interventions are abused or not.

00:47:33.100 Arkansas, I think, or Alabama, one of the A's just passed a law about it, too, or is

00:47:38.440 trying to pass a law.

00:47:39.480 So I'm starting to feel a little bit optimistic that some of the states are pushing back.

00:47:43.060 But at the same time, my state, California, Los Angeles, which is where I grew up, is

00:47:49.460 either about to or just put a 26-year-old man in a juvenile female facility because

00:47:56.120 he identifies as female and he was a minor when he committed the crime it's like well he was he

00:48:01.500 was a man he was he was a man when he committed the crime he wasn't identifying as female when

00:48:04.780 he committed the crime but he's identifying as female now so he's going to the female prison 1.00

00:48:07.820 he was a juvenile so he's going to the juvenile prison so they don't have a line they're going

00:48:12.500 to keep this group is going to keep pushing the boundaries uh because because they like

00:48:17.200 crossing boundaries crossing boundaries is the point so so if they can get a male adult male

00:48:21.440 sex predator into a juvenile female facility that's what they're going to do and that's what 0.98

00:48:25.400 they did they did his name's hannah tubs um there's there's it's it's it's so so so on the

00:48:31.760 prison front for instance it appears to very much be accelerating they're just they're shoving them

00:48:35.500 in right now and and uh people haven't woken up yet to the fact that the of the of the ongoing

00:48:40.500 horrors that these women are being subjected to for the crime of being female while having 1.00

00:48:44.980 committed a crime it is cruel and unusual punishment especially emphasis i mean it's

00:48:50.000 obviously cruel but it's clearly unusual to uh subject a prisoner to a risk of pregnancy

00:48:56.000 You cannot do that to a man.

00:48:57.280 That makes it unusual.

00:48:58.460 Therefore, you can't do it to a woman.

00:49:02.260 It's in our constitution.

00:49:03.520 I don't know.

00:49:04.040 No, no, no.

00:49:04.620 Look, I mean, the idea that someone with a male anatomy is going to be in a female prison, 0.99

00:49:12.420 to me, just shows that we have gone completely off the fucking rails. 0.99

00:49:16.480 And it's absurd, right? 0.98

00:49:18.000 The fact that you've got male athletes, physically male athletes, competing against women, 0.94

00:49:24.860 including in contact sport, including in, it's just absurd. And again, shows how far often

00:49:31.560 the fact that we're transitioning children. I mean, this is my personal opinion. Again,

00:49:36.760 it's, they're not capable of consent. Yeah, they're not. They're not. And that's the thing

00:49:42.560 is that they want to, they're pushing it because they want us to accept the idea that young people

00:49:47.540 can consent to radical, uh, uh, touching of their genitals. If a child can consent to,

00:49:53.820 having their penis inverted, why can't the child consent to having their penis touched 1.00

00:49:57.740 by an adult? Now, look, I've heard this argument a lot, and it's not 0.99

00:50:01.940 an argument I necessarily reject out of hand, but what is your evidence for that?

00:50:05.860 Why are you saying that that is the case?

00:50:09.340 Why am I saying that is the case? Well, here's an example. Dr. Marcy Bowers of the

00:50:13.680 WPATH said on camera in I Am Jazz, he joked about 0.99

00:50:17.680 how Jazz could be a porn star while he was photographing Jazz's genitals. 0.96

00:50:22.020 so that in order to get this midline we need to bring that down more and that will centralize 0.94

00:50:27.760 this i think we're saying the same thing i'm happy i i have a good sense of what we need to do 0.94

00:50:32.980 let me just take a picture too poor thing you could be a porn star for all the photos we've taken 1.00

00:50:38.880 god i'm so sorry i did not say we have to just keep joking around here otherwise we don't get 0.88

00:50:44.780 through right god knows if we didn't laugh in the last six months we wouldn't have made it i guess

00:50:49.300 I'll get dressed again.

00:50:50.280 You get dressed again. 0.99

00:50:52.280 While he was photographing Jazz's genitals. 0.98

00:50:55.500 While he was doing that. 1.00

00:50:57.060 He was joking about how you might as well be a porn star. 0.99

00:51:00.400 I'm sorry. 0.99

00:51:01.440 He's clearly getting a thrill from this.

00:51:03.920 He's an AGP. 0.99

00:51:05.060 We know that that's a sexual illness. 0.98

00:51:06.900 He likes what he's doing. 0.99

00:51:08.620 He likes touching children in this way and harming them.

00:51:11.400 This is my firm belief. 0.90

00:51:12.980 The pornography joke to me clinched it.

00:51:14.760 Because he made it in front of the child and in front of the family.

00:51:17.260 He was trying to see what he could get away with, in my opinion. And so my other evidence for this is that organizations like WPATH are actively including a lot of fetish information in their publications. They're including information, for instance, about castration fetishes and eunuch fetishes and sissification and things like that.

00:51:35.720 It's in their actual materials that they're directly connecting to this.

00:51:39.620 So that's why I feel like that is behind this as well as other statements from just the idea that you can consent to these things is inseparable.

00:51:57.720 But surely what you've talked about is like two individual instances.

00:52:02.160 does that therefore mean that there is a greater trend across the across the entire

00:52:08.060 professional or the people who are treating gender dysphoria i believe that the people

00:52:14.580 that are very essential to treating it um are people that don't understand that children are

00:52:19.620 children uh and that are very um preoccupied with their sexual development i i don't think that you

00:52:28.600 can be interested in protecting children's innocence and sexual development and also

00:52:38.960 be doing this to them knowing that you are robbing them of sexual function in the future.

00:52:44.740 So I just don't see how someone could know that this is what they're doing to a child

00:52:48.940 and not want to be doing it to the child. And I don't see wanting to do it for a good reason

00:52:53.480 because they are taking the child's sexual function. Jazz Jennings has said that he doesn't

00:52:57.720 have any sexual sensation um he has since in this recent episode described being penetrated and it

00:53:02.980 looked like it was quite a horrible experience for him i mean this is a very very difficult thing to

00:53:10.900 talk about but the problem that i i have with with the discussion as we're having it is

00:53:18.760 we're talking about people who are transitioning and you know doctors doing it do you not just

00:53:26.180 sometimes do you not think that there's a more charitable explanation for this which is look

00:53:31.100 these doctors think they're doing the right thing you know just in the way the doctors who

00:53:37.440 who provided thalidomide to pregnant mothers for pain relief thought they were doing the right thing 1.00

00:53:43.880 you know i i agree with you that some of these doctors uh believe that they're doing the right

00:53:50.580 thing and don't know enough about the drugs they're prescribing to know what they're actually

00:53:53.820 doing or how the drugs work um but at that point i feel like you're you're getting to the point

00:53:58.540 where they should know and we should have an expectation um because if they think they're

00:54:03.300 doing the right thing because they're deferring to authority figures telling them so so it is it

00:54:07.080 is the the medical equivalent of the nuremberg defense i was just following orders well they

00:54:11.180 could have done their own research and they should have because they were a treating doctor and and

00:54:15.700 they're not because they're right but that's a very different point to the idea that they enjoy

00:54:19.940 touching the kids yeah yeah yeah so so there's there's the people that are pushing this initially

00:54:24.660 and are the reason that it's gone as far as it has and then there there are likely the majority

00:54:30.520 at this point of doctors who are following orders and doing what they think is the right thing

00:54:34.100 so so i definitely don't i'm not saying that they are all pedophiles because to me it's it's a very

00:54:41.820 serious accusation to make against you know a lot of people who i think i personally think they're

00:54:47.800 misguided in what they're doing from my experiences being an educator and if if my child god forbid

00:54:54.620 identified in that way there is no way that i would allow them to do it but it's it's it's

00:54:59.980 another thing to then say it's because they get a sexual thrill from touching it surely that is a

00:55:04.980 tiny tiny tiny percentage of people in the medical profession which you would probably find in in

00:55:13.480 every profession every profession there are unfortunately predators etc right so so when

00:55:19.760 I'm talking about like the predators behind this and pushing this that I agree that it is it is a

00:55:24.080 minority of the medical profession it is a minority of the people that are prescribing this especially

00:55:28.580 now and that a lot of the people that are behind that that I would I would class in that camp are

00:55:32.880 also not medical professionals but they are the ones who are driving the policies uh and are in

00:55:37.320 behind the propaganda, and especially the fact that it wasn't more fully vetted, that they

00:55:44.740 jumped straight into doing these treatments without actually researching them. If they were

00:55:50.100 concerned about protecting the children, they wouldn't have done that. But at this point,

00:55:53.140 that small and vocal and truly disturbed minority has propagandized the medical field and has

00:56:00.600 captured a lot of institutions somehow. Okay, I see. So just to be clear,

00:56:07.320 Uh, what I'm, I heard, and correct me if I misheard, is that you think there is a small

00:56:12.800 minority of people who've managed to, who, who are predators in one way or another, who've managed

00:56:19.100 to influence many other people into supporting their worldview and their ideology. Yeah. Yeah.

00:56:25.420 Through, through, uh, carefully crafted propaganda that, that influenced me at one point.

00:56:29.940 I see. Well, it's, it's an interesting, uh, it's an interesting, I was going to say,

00:56:35.160 It's an interesting way of looking at it.

00:56:36.500 It's a way of looking at it that, you know, we were keen to challenge because I think

00:56:41.540 a lot of people like to throw the label around at people they don't agree with.

00:56:47.340 And I think it's important to remember that, you know, even if you're making that allegation

00:56:54.740 against some people, it's not going to be everybody.

00:56:59.440 There might be a small minority of people who are like that.

00:57:02.740 Right, right.

00:57:03.320 Most of the people who are pushing this, I believe, are acting in good faith or being paid by the manufacturer to just prescribe a drug.

00:57:10.700 And then there's a small and vocal minority who is actually in it for the eunuch fetish, for the castration fetish.

00:57:16.100 And we know that from this very prominent trans organization that's extremely influential talking about it.

00:57:21.820 Well, on that happy note of castration fetishes, Exelangtick, it's been great to have you on the show to talk about some of this stuff. 0.95

00:57:30.660 And I would say, particularly in the first part of the interview, when, you know, I really

00:57:36.140 appreciated the direct and directness and bluntness with which you talk about this issue, because

00:57:41.780 I think that's very important, actually.

00:57:44.220 So thank you for coming on.

00:57:45.700 I know that you are now banned from YouTube for reasons that, as always, you don't know,

00:57:50.600 because they won't tell you what you've done wrong.

00:57:53.780 What is your situation now?

00:57:56.080 Where are you with, you know, your content?

00:57:59.820 so so currently my my content is on both odyssey and rumble um and uh can be accessed uh through

00:58:07.860 either looking for the channels ttx lancic or xlancic.com uh right now is pointing to odyssey

00:58:14.160 um and uh so i'm still uploading videos usually uh once or twice a week uh where i look at

00:58:21.080 different content iam jazz series or phalloplasty files things like that i've tried to get back on

00:58:25.920 YouTube a couple of times, but they keep banning me. Well, that's not perfect, but we, uh, we wish

00:58:31.740 you all the best. Uh, and we're going to ask you a couple of questions from our supporters, uh,

00:58:37.740 that only they will see on our locals page. But before we do, we always end the show with one

00:58:42.220 final question, which is what's the one thing we're not talking about, but we really should be.

00:58:47.380 The one thing we're not talking about that we really should be. Oh goodness. Um, I feel like

00:58:52.620 that we are not talking and should be talking more about the the spinal impacts of binding

00:59:00.660 and and things about that nature i've been doing a few videos lately on that and it's like people

00:59:05.360 talk about the bindings effects on breasts but i think that we need to talk about the spine as if

00:59:09.040 it's like the foot and we need to recognize that if we're putting 13 year olds in binders

00:59:12.920 they're going to end up with with deformations so we need to be very careful about that

00:59:17.740 thank you so much for coming on the show thank you so much we thank you for watching if you

00:59:26.200 have enjoyed this episode our episodes always go out on wednesday and sunday 7 p.m uk time

00:59:32.200 and our raw shows go out thursday friday and saturday we also have a podcast if you like

00:59:38.740 your trigonometry on the go thank you so much again for watching take care and we'll see you

00:59:43.340 soon guys. Do you feel that if you were brought up in a culture where female roles are different

00:59:49.840 would you still have dysphoria?

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TRIGGERnometry - May 19, 2022

Why I Detransitioned - Exulansic

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