TRIGGERnometry - Why Labour Keep Losing

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster.

00:00:07.860 I'm Constantine Kishin.

00:00:09.180 And this is a show for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:00:14.260 We do have a fascinating guest for you today, but just to set the context,

00:00:17.740 we're recording this the day after the local elections in the UK,

00:00:21.360 where the Conservative Party, which has been in power for 11 years,

00:00:24.880 has actually advanced and made more progress,

00:00:27.360 particularly by capturing the working class vote.

00:00:29.680 So we thought, who better to get back on the show than our regular,

00:00:32.840 one of our favourite guests.

00:00:33.840 He's the comedian, Geoff Norcock.

00:00:35.320 Hello.

00:00:36.080 Welcome back, mate.

00:00:37.220 Yeah, I mean, I was thinking when I was on this before,

00:00:39.460 it feels like I've been saying the same thing

00:00:41.780 about what's likely to happen for quite a while.

00:00:44.880 I think there's a few people that have been saying this

00:00:46.320 about the working class vote.

00:00:48.020 It's not an unfamiliar narrative.

00:00:49.840 And then here we are.

00:00:50.960 There was this iceberg that the Labour Party were warned about.

00:00:55.000 And they said, no, no, we just keep fucking sailing towards that iceberg.

00:00:58.940 I think we could sort of chicane around that iceberg.

00:01:01.680 I think an iceberg would be okay.

00:01:03.020 And it's interesting, you know, like in terms of normally,

00:01:06.320 I like good politics, right?

00:01:08.760 You know, the idea of an opposition.

00:01:11.140 It's sort of funny when Labour do badly.

00:01:12.980 I can't explain exactly why that is.

00:01:15.220 I think we know.

00:01:16.560 It's sort of funny.

00:01:17.520 And yet, I don't know, man.

00:01:18.620 As this is happening, I find myself slightly melancholic

00:01:21.960 for the state of the opposition, you know,

00:01:24.080 because it's quite sad in a way.

00:01:27.100 You know, I think when I love cricket

00:01:28.420 and when England play Australia, you want to beat Australia.

00:01:32.120 But, I mean, there was a period when we were battering them at home.

00:01:34.880 That's not as much fun.

00:01:35.920 And it's also not good for cricket.

00:01:37.320 And I think there's probably something true about that in politics as well.

00:01:40.580 Well, the thing with you is you didn't always vote Tory, right?

00:01:42.940 You only started voting Tory about 2010.

00:01:45.280 Yeah.

00:01:45.820 And you've written a book, which is called Where I Went Right,

00:01:48.380 which is about your journey.

00:01:49.820 How the left lost me.

00:01:50.720 Yeah, yeah.

00:01:51.500 Which they would call victim blaming.

00:01:54.040 Yeah.

00:01:54.960 But, yeah, I mean, the timing.

00:01:56.460 this kind of comes out on the Thursday the 13th of May I mean and all anybody's talking about at

00:02:02.180 the moment is about the migration of working class voters away from the Labour Party um

00:02:07.580 interestingly you know the way that the pandemic's gone there were times last year because we finished

00:02:11.480 the manuscript um you know I filed it in November and I was like Jesus like this is gonna look

00:02:16.140 ridiculous everyone's gonna desert the Tories if if the management of the pandemic is as shambolic

00:02:20.460 as it's been so far and then now it probably goes the other way you know where where if anything

00:02:26.060 I might have slightly underestimated things.

00:02:29.240 And you, I mean, we are where we are.

00:02:32.060 Why do you think it is that the working classes,

00:02:35.180 particularly up north, have turned their back on Labour?

00:02:38.380 Well, I suppose, you know, there's so many reasons, aren't there?

00:02:42.940 There's so many. Just pick a hot take, man.

00:02:45.340 Geoff's not excited about this at all.

00:02:47.120 This is very sad.

00:02:47.980 No, I am not a kid in a can.

00:02:49.620 Well, what I thought was about my own process of voting on this occasion,

00:02:54.260 Let's bring it right down to the ballot box.

00:02:56.200 What happens when you go there?

00:02:57.140 And people might not think that I do this,

00:02:59.400 but I always ask myself last-minute questions about,

00:03:02.000 OK, could I vote for the other lot?

00:03:04.080 You know, even when it was leave, when it was the Brexit referendum,

00:03:07.360 my choice was between leave and abstain, right?

00:03:09.620 And I always ask myself that question.

00:03:11.660 You know, even in the 2019 general election,

00:03:14.040 there was aspects of the Tory campaign which I wasn't fond of.

00:03:16.680 And again, I asked myself that question on this occasion.

00:03:19.060 I thought, OK, there have been things I haven't liked

00:03:20.780 about the Tories over the last year.

00:03:23.160 So let's just go through the other options.

00:03:25.000 I went, could I vote Labour?

00:03:25.960 No, I can't vote Labour.

00:03:27.400 It's just a million, a million reasons.

00:03:30.120 Why not, Geoff?

00:03:30.880 Why can't you vote Labour?

00:03:32.120 The offer.

00:03:33.220 I think it's the overall offer, isn't it,

00:03:34.800 of the left is not a good offer.

00:03:36.880 What do you mean by the offer?

00:03:38.100 Like, give us some concrete.

00:03:38.980 It's not just the Labour Party as well.

00:03:41.200 The image, the perception of the left.

00:03:44.020 That's often what people are partially voting for in their mind.

00:03:47.540 I put an X here.

00:03:48.540 What do I get?

00:03:49.360 It's not just about the Labour Party.

00:03:50.960 You know, it's something beyond that.

00:03:51.980 what am I endorsing and there's you know there's a culture uh within and without the Labour Party

00:03:57.760 that is way left of the country you know in terms of you look at their activists and their

00:04:02.320 membership base and where the country's at and what the country thinks are priorities who wants

00:04:06.700 to tear down statues who wants to get on with things right now you look at even corporate

00:04:12.240 culture you know a lot of these companies are trying to send out appealing messages uh you know

00:04:18.040 I don't know who they always think that they're appealing to,

00:04:20.380 but they seem to think that young people are the only people

00:04:23.240 that buy stuff and that young people won't get more right-wing

00:04:26.260 as they get older.

00:04:26.980 That's always quite an interesting misguided supposition.

00:04:31.420 There's just, there's so much.

00:04:34.040 There's so much.

00:04:34.520 There's a current leader, Keir Starmer.

00:04:35.940 I don't think he's a bad guy.

00:04:36.940 I don't think he's a bad politician,

00:04:38.020 but he doesn't summon anything in me, you know.

00:04:41.880 And people want to feel something from a leader.

00:04:44.540 People want to feel, not inspired, but they want to feel moved

00:04:47.680 and when he came into power, when he became leader,

00:04:50.500 there was a lot of talk about forensic care

00:04:51.940 and that was touted in social media to be a good thing

00:04:54.820 and it's a good thing when you're a QC to be forensic.

00:04:58.900 But if you're, look, this is a very base analogy,

00:05:01.620 but if you're on a stag do and you've got forensic care

00:05:04.960 and rugby tackle Boris and the night splits up a bit

00:05:10.300 or we'll go in different places, where are you going?

00:05:14.000 And I think that people want to, people like Boris.

00:05:17.020 People, I'd say this, the country like Boris a lot more than I do.

00:05:20.000 I'm not.

00:05:20.360 I wouldn't close.

00:05:20.900 Well, I was going to say that.

00:05:21.900 You talk about a leader making you feel something, Boris Johnson.

00:05:24.680 I mean, look, I'm going on the stag do I'm going out with Boris.

00:05:27.740 The following day, I'm like, oh, mate, I've got to get an earlier train.

00:05:30.600 You know what I mean?

00:05:30.980 I'm not necessarily wanting to hang out with a bloke,

00:05:32.780 but he makes people feel something.

00:05:34.740 And then you've got what have the Labour Party done?

00:05:39.040 We've had these existential crises in terms of Brexit and COVID.

00:05:42.620 and it does seem that in both instances their strategy was

00:05:47.040 this is a tricky one for the Tories, they're in a bit of a mess,

00:05:49.980 let's just see how this plays out.

00:05:52.320 They've done that for both things and this is within,

00:05:55.260 you know, within the space of two and a half years

00:05:58.020 we've seen them do this, they've prevaricated

00:05:59.860 and they've essentially sort of hoped that there was a coach crash, right?

00:06:05.420 They've seen the coach veering off the motorway

00:06:07.540 and they've gone, the most important thing for us to do

00:06:09.600 is that there's no footage of us with our hand on the wheel.

00:06:11.720 that is that is cowardly in a way and and yeah the the MPs the parliamentary Labour Party to an

00:06:19.660 extent they just don't feel connected they don't seem to see the world the same way that I do and

00:06:27.120 another thing to just remember is that you know in the very recent past the Tories have grappled

00:06:33.220 with difficult things and got results right so whether Brexit completely unfells and this deal

00:06:39.840 has proved to have been shoddy at this point they they did it you know they actually did deliver

00:06:44.840 something and in western democracies for a long time no one's done anything radical right he

00:06:50.360 actually you know and and the left are probably their own worst enemies in that they've made it

00:06:55.240 possible for boris johnson to look like fucking he-man for doing things that weren't that

00:07:01.000 impossible you know so we'll never get he'll never get the withdrawal agreement open he did that right

00:07:06.020 Never get a trade deal within a year.

00:07:08.220 He got that, right?

00:07:09.020 Never be prime minister.

00:07:10.060 Never win an election.

00:07:11.480 He'll never turn COVID around.

00:07:13.460 And he's done all these things.

00:07:14.700 And he ends up sort of by didn't get more credit, perhaps,

00:07:19.780 than he deserves for these things.

00:07:22.220 I mean, even as I'm talking now, I'm bouncing around things

00:07:24.600 because there are so many different reasons.

00:07:27.820 I mean, the economic news that's come out in the last few days

00:07:30.800 that once again, the most dystopian prophecies of parts of the left

00:07:35.420 about what's going to happen to this country

00:07:37.080 have underestimated how dynamic and vibrant the economy is.

00:07:41.560 Do you think that's it, Geoff?

00:07:42.600 Like, everything now, and it's not just the left,

00:07:44.760 it's also people on the right.

00:07:45.820 Like, we catastrophise everything so much

00:07:48.300 and maybe it's just so common now to be like,

00:07:51.060 well, you know, Brexit will never happen

00:07:52.880 or if it does, it will be the end of the...

00:07:54.500 And that's because they're trying to stop it happening.

00:07:57.440 And in...

00:07:58.500 Well, they go over the top.

00:07:59.600 But that's my point, right?

00:08:00.780 It's like they go so far because they think that

00:08:03.160 if they say you're going to get super gonorrhea

00:08:04.860 and there'll be no sandwiches left.

00:08:06.220 Like, that will stop Brexit.

00:08:08.080 That was the most powerful arguments for me.

00:08:10.680 That was the only time I went, hang on, no sandwiches.

00:08:13.640 I've got a flaky dick.

00:08:16.240 Yeah, they slightly over-egg it.

00:08:18.780 Well, a lot, right?

00:08:20.060 We're all kind of in that loop of, like, the media exaggeration,

00:08:23.820 the Twitter hyperbole.

00:08:25.260 But then there's a price to pay for that down the line

00:08:27.780 when the public go, actually, none of that has happened.

00:08:30.440 So you've been bullshitting the whole time.

00:08:32.360 Why would we take you seriously now?

00:08:33.940 No, absolutely. And large swathes of the sort of centre-left media commentaria have sort of fired all their bullets.

00:08:40.740 They've spurned their credibility, one, in respect of how dystopian their predictions about Brexit were.

00:08:46.880 And two, you know, some of the attacks on Boris, there are certain things that were absolutely legitimate.

00:08:52.900 But there have been times within the last year where he does something odd to intelligent people.

00:08:58.780 He makes them a bit deranged.

00:09:01.040 They hate him. They hate him so much.

00:09:03.940 Like, we've just got to fucking just get Boris out of power.

00:09:07.640 Something would be cleansed.

00:09:08.660 Something would be okay with the world again.

00:09:10.780 And I think the public see that sometimes, you know,

00:09:13.200 whether it's an opening homily or a monologue on Newsnight

00:09:17.280 or it's certain stories being fanned slightly beyond

00:09:20.900 their actual relevance to a lot of people.

00:09:23.720 I mean, the most recent one is Curtaingate, you know.

00:09:26.200 I think it was fair for Keir Starmer to ask those questions at PMQs.

00:09:30.200 Maybe not as many as he did, but I think it was, you know,

00:09:32.400 He has to bring stuff like that up.

00:09:34.760 And then, like, the following day, he's in John Lewis

00:09:36.860 and he's looking at wallpaper.

00:09:38.920 And, like, on social media, that gets a lot of credit.

00:09:41.480 They're like, oh, sick burn, Keir.

00:09:44.840 You think, it just made him look fixated.

00:09:47.620 It made him look fixated on a triviality.

00:09:49.940 And, you know, at a time where there's a pandemic, you know,

00:09:52.080 we need to rebuild the economy, you've got what's happening in India.

00:09:55.900 You get six questions at PMQs and he did three on curtains.

00:10:00.180 but don't you think a large part of the problem is that people in London who are very middle class

00:10:06.820 don't understand working class people yeah they don't really talk to them they don't really

00:10:10.540 encounter them they don't know what it's like to live in a town like Rotherham or all the rest of

00:10:15.000 it so how can they how can they represent them well I mean we've seen yet again yet another

00:10:21.860 election where in some quarters and I'm not saying this is true it's definitely not many people in

00:10:26.480 the Labour Party and generally on the left are saying this but there's certainly people on the

00:10:29.700 centre-left, their standard reaction to losing yet another election is, why won't these gullible

00:10:35.720 fuckwits vote for us? I mean, these stupid people, once again, self-harm, they've been duped. I say,

00:10:44.080 you know what? If they're that easily duped, why can't you duped them? A lot of politics is about

00:10:49.040 propaganda. It's about fluffing an idea. Every party, to varying degrees, is selling something

00:10:54.980 beyond which, something way beyond. I mean, this levelling up thing, right? It's fantastic. It

00:10:59.200 makes me feel good I'm not sure how much of it they'll be able to do but that's a job of politics

00:11:03.420 to sell something hopeful and something positive and so that's the Labour Party's job is to do the

00:11:10.460 same thing but they can't dupe anybody at the moment and also I mean the NHS is a good point

00:11:15.840 in a way there some of the old certainties about politics have been shattered but you know I know

00:11:21.220 a lot of left-wing friends that have said to me and this is a classic anecdote isn't it when I've

00:11:25.220 got a point i want to make it's like actually i was i was speaking on the doorstep uh someone

00:11:29.420 convenient who i made up but um but genuinely a lot of left-wing friends have said to me that the

00:11:34.180 the furlough scheme really surprised them you know the way they'd been conditioned their whole lives

00:11:39.480 it certainly wasn't that the tories would swoop in and pay people's wages and and the original

00:11:44.500 furlough was probably more generous than it needed to be and i think the fact that the country have

00:11:48.560 accrued 150 billion quid's worth of savings suggests that they might have not got the balance

00:11:52.800 quite right there and then the NHS as well you know you can make a really legit argument about

00:11:57.900 whether or not the NHS was funded enough going into this pandemic but the truth is it's been

00:12:02.020 prioritised within the context of it and a lot of right-wing people would say that it's been too

00:12:07.240 prioritised it's been too protected so these are the two old certainties right of British politics

00:12:12.960 the Tory party they don't care about you they won't spend money they spent money right well

00:12:17.000 the NHS they want to destroy it and for the last 15 years every single election it's the most

00:12:21.100 obvious one in the playbook is the NHS is minutes from death. Is this the end for the

00:12:27.520 Caped Crusader? It's almost like those old Batman, Adam West. Is it the end? Of course

00:12:33.420 it's fucking not. He's got another episode next week. And the NHS, I mean the NHS, it

00:12:38.920 would be the quickest suicide note in political history would be to end the principle of healthcare

00:12:44.800 that's free at the point of service. The Conservative Party will never do that. What they will have

00:12:50.920 now is this I think amusing challenge in a way is they've got this new broad coalition of voters

00:12:56.020 and I fully expect them to become a lot more northern. They've done a bit of it haven't they

00:13:01.820 with the old Rishi with the Yorkshire tea but they are going to lean into this you know they're

00:13:06.660 going to lean into this hard and some of the things that they've done are just people sell

00:13:10.060 their performative gestures right like moving treasury offices to York okay it is a symbolic

00:13:16.100 gesture but Labour could have done that symbolic gesture you know they had a long time in power

00:13:20.300 where they could have done it it's just good politics right so i and also york is posh york

00:13:26.280 is the one place they go to isn't it they get a nice train journey up there on the east coast

00:13:30.120 mainline have a little bit of lunch up there arrive half cut yeah i mean i mean they're not

00:13:34.760 doing it in wakefield let's put it that way but but like this is this is common sense to to spread

00:13:40.100 the power base uh around the country and and i'm not i'm not saying it this is weird because

00:13:45.300 I probably was as uncertain about voting Conservative in this last election

00:13:49.580 as I have been for a while.

00:13:51.620 And yet it's really not hard to work out why they've done well.

00:13:56.360 Let's talk about your journey, actually.

00:13:58.200 I just wanted to make this one question.

00:14:00.520 All right, so they're in the ship, right, Labour.

00:14:03.540 We all know that, OK?

00:14:04.960 Please don't show you this Diet Coke.

00:14:06.560 We've got sponsors, Geoff. Come on.

00:14:08.140 It's OK. I made it at home.

00:14:11.820 It's your home brew.

00:14:12.860 My own recipe.

00:14:14.340 Why do you think he's so happy?

00:14:16.720 Because it's fuelled with something.

00:14:18.080 Right, but so we've got the Labour Party.

00:14:20.520 How do they turn it around then?

00:14:22.180 How do they capture the ordinary bloke on the street?

00:14:26.320 Look at his face.

00:14:27.480 They can't.

00:14:28.060 Honestly, I don't think that they can.

00:14:29.780 Look at his face.

00:14:31.620 I just, I don't.

00:14:33.420 I feel a bit bad for them in a way

00:14:34.760 because this isn't just about things

00:14:36.660 that the Labour Party have done, by the way.

00:14:38.800 This has been other factors

00:14:40.280 that are partially beyond their control.

00:14:42.040 I mean, they were egged on to a position of second referendum

00:14:45.840 by a London-centric media.

00:14:48.220 No, no, no, this is how everyone feels.

00:14:50.260 You know, Lynn at Hot Yoga,

00:14:51.680 we all think that there should be a second referendum.

00:14:54.460 They were egged on, weren't they, by Keir Starmer?

00:14:56.460 No, no, no.

00:14:57.200 We've got an e-petition.

00:14:59.520 Well, you know, a lot of the Gmail addresses sound fucking similar,

00:15:02.340 but we've got this six million-person petition

00:15:04.480 to revoke the referendum.

00:15:06.260 So they were egged on in that.

00:15:07.980 And let's just quickly, briefly stop on that

00:15:09.880 before I go back to your question.

00:15:10.820 within the last year and a half the Labour Party right the party of the working classes

00:15:16.420 voted or moved to a position a farcical position whereby they did not respect the democratic

00:15:21.960 outcome now I know at that point there were a lot of issues with getting Brexit delivered but

00:15:26.140 their job like when when you vote that is the only time you have true equality in this country

00:15:30.420 right whether you're Jacob Rees-Mogg or whether you're Brian Cox weird reference point but you

00:15:36.060 know what I mean like they probably are at the other ends of the culture they're supposed to

00:15:39.580 protect that and they didn't protect that and that if you think about how long it took the

00:15:43.640 Lib Dems to get past tuition fees this is way fucking beyond that and then another factor

00:15:49.600 Francis is you've got like this migration of people out of those towns like a lot of people

00:15:54.580 youngsters are going to metropolitan centres like Newcastle or Manchester or London or Bristol but

00:15:59.780 it kind of leaves these towns vacant of people that might vote Labour and I said on my podcast

00:16:05.860 at the beginning of this year,

00:16:06.800 I said one of my boldest predictions

00:16:08.520 was that the Labour Party might formally split.

00:16:11.060 And you always think,

00:16:11.800 well, they look into the abyss

00:16:13.360 and then they reunite.

00:16:15.020 But it feels more fundamental this time

00:16:16.940 and I don't honestly know

00:16:18.620 how the two wings of the Labour Party

00:16:20.280 can reconcile.

00:16:21.900 It's something we've been talking about

00:16:23.220 on this show quite a lot

00:16:24.180 and I just want to,

00:16:25.160 people maybe watching for the first time

00:16:26.940 or not familiar with our views,

00:16:28.220 like Francis and I are not happy

00:16:30.220 about what's happening.

00:16:31.780 We, you know,

00:16:32.920 him and I both used to vote Labour frequently.

00:16:35.860 Lib Dem as well in my case, sorry, I apologise.

00:16:38.720 I've been there, look, we all have, you know.

00:16:40.620 We all did crazy stuff at university.

00:16:42.740 Yeah, exactly.

00:16:43.720 But you know what I mean?

00:16:44.820 I don't think it's a healthy position at all

00:16:47.180 where you've got a party that's in power for 11 years

00:16:49.980 and it's doing better and better

00:16:51.780 and the opposition is worse and worse.

00:16:54.400 And I think your point about the media in particular is very true

00:16:57.360 and doing the show has actually shown me that to a large extent.

00:17:01.120 There's a whole body of people, particularly outside the big cities

00:17:04.900 and particularly outside of London

00:17:06.300 who just don't, they don't feel represented

00:17:08.640 by anything they see on their screens

00:17:10.320 that's mainstream and the Labour Party

00:17:12.860 is pandering to that

00:17:14.580 as opposed to actually trying to connect with people

00:17:16.580 but if anyone is not familiar

00:17:18.760 with you, I want to talk a little bit

00:17:20.660 about your background because you talk about it in the book

00:17:22.580 where I want to talk about growing up

00:17:24.900 tell everybody a little bit about your

00:17:26.640 backstory, your background

00:17:27.880 what was your childhood like

00:17:30.200 because that informs a lot of your views I think

00:17:32.580 and that's why I always found interesting about you

00:17:34.500 I mean, inherently, I should be Labour.

00:17:36.900 You know, a lot of people think the South East.

00:17:38.340 But as you all know, there's a strong working class tradition

00:17:40.680 and Labour trade union movement in the South East as well,

00:17:44.880 despite perceptions.

00:17:46.120 My dad was a trade union man.

00:17:47.600 You know, both my parents were disabled,

00:17:49.900 lived on council estates and council properties.

00:17:53.020 So I was kind of at a lot of the sort of tick list.

00:17:55.500 Eventually, you know, went into comedy.

00:17:57.720 But, you know, that, in a way, is the point of the book.

00:18:00.280 Where did I go right, right?

00:18:01.620 Like, everyone always says, well, how does someone like you

00:18:04.280 end up voting for the so-called baddies but then it goes you know it turns out now you ask that

00:18:09.160 question of a lot of people right that is now no longer um an uncommon thing and I think the truth

00:18:14.100 is is that I voted Labour in 97 2001 and stuff initially it was just a ubiquitous yeah you know

00:18:20.580 we all did there in Britpop I was in London I thought everybody voted Labour I just thought

00:18:24.520 it's what you I just thought this is what you do right um but if I look deeper into my childhood

00:18:30.000 I can actually see that there were at least small C conservative things, you know.

00:18:34.000 I got a bit of stick for this because of an article in the Mail on Sunday,

00:18:37.080 but I can remember one of my first memories, not one of my first memories,

00:18:40.680 but an early memory of just people wearing dressing gowns all day long, you know,

00:18:47.160 on this state, I fucking can't handle, I'm like, get dressed, you know.

00:18:50.580 That's quite a judgy little conservative reaction, isn't it?

00:18:54.400 Like, for God's sake, get dressed. What are you doing?

00:18:56.940 I've just got this theory that, you know,

00:18:58.300 you shouldn't wear a dressing gown after 9am

00:19:00.440 unless you're ill or Hugh Hefner.

00:19:02.180 Those are only two contexts, right?

00:19:04.560 And I remember getting free school meals

00:19:06.600 and not liking that and hating that

00:19:09.220 and just wondering, you know,

00:19:10.840 I was told that, well, the state paid for it.

00:19:12.340 And I was like, who's the state?

00:19:13.880 What if they decide they don't want to pay for it?

00:19:15.520 I can remember, like, the anxiety of being not poor.

00:19:19.980 This gets overstated.

00:19:21.120 You know, people want me to sort of hype this up.

00:19:23.300 We weren't, but we had periods

00:19:24.340 where it was really close to the breadline.

00:19:25.560 But overall, in the context of where we lived, we did okay.

00:19:29.220 But I remember those moments because we'd started off doing all right in my family.

00:19:33.940 We had a private property in a decent street in Wimbledon,

00:19:36.400 but then my mum and dad got divorced and then we moved to a council estate.

00:19:40.600 So that's quite an interesting status drop at the age of nine,

00:19:43.400 so it might have heightened my sensitivity to it.

00:19:46.200 And we used to get clothing, grants and stuff like that.

00:19:49.380 And I was always dressed like a fucking tramp.

00:19:51.060 and i remember once i remember once i had these these trousers that were so tight i went to school

00:19:56.840 in wandsworth and as you remember francis cussing people oh yeah just like an olympic sport you

00:20:02.180 know best mates being as mean to you as possible i had these skin tight trousers before they were

00:20:06.820 fashionable and one of the lads said to me he went my god jeffrey goes i can see your pulse

00:20:11.860 which is a put down i still use to this day yeah so i guess there was a material thing in me

00:20:18.360 quite early was I just wanted more and a lot of people in this country just want that right yeah

00:20:22.880 just I want to do all right I want to do all right for myself this is the most human thing

00:20:26.460 imaginable right is to want to do okay for yourself and improve the situation in your family

00:20:30.640 and beyond that improve society as a whole for a lot of people those are the sort of stages of

00:20:35.400 priority that you go through and yet there are there have been times certain this is not just

00:20:39.780 from the Labour Party but the left that that kind of aspiration has seemed like in some ways

00:20:45.500 a dirty thing and and and i read an article in the times this morning uh by janice turner i think

00:20:51.100 was saying that just a lot of people don't have the same sad drab lives that the labor party think

00:20:57.080 they have you know in hartlepool yes salaries are a lot lower but so houses so is a lot of things a

00:21:02.960 lot of people in hartlepool are having the things materially in life that a lot of us are looking

00:21:09.180 for and and this period particularly under corbyn whereby everyone was painted to be a victim there's

00:21:14.600 a lot of working class people don't want to be thought of as having shit lives right there are

00:21:18.880 definitely there's people in society that are really struggling and and i think that you know

00:21:23.300 you should definitely focus more resources on those people outside of that if you've got a gaff

00:21:28.160 car a couple of holidays a year a couple of nights out a month it's a good life but it's the thing as

00:21:34.680 well it's like i i think people massively misunderstand i just from my experience and i

00:21:40.160 i talking in russia there's working class people in russia as well like in many different places

00:21:44.480 people don't want free stuff really most people most people don't want free stuff they don't want

00:21:49.960 free internet access they want a job and they want to work and they want to do well you know

00:21:54.920 they're not looking to get loads of handouts now if you say to them that's where they went wrong

00:21:58.720 in russia in the end i would say that would definitely be the worst country to have communism

00:22:02.640 yeah terrible accent where was that it was i anywhere in eastern europe yeah i think you

00:22:10.360 were in serbia mate probably the most racist country in europe come on it was the really

00:22:16.820 liberal bit of serbia you know what pisses me off people people say that my russian accent is worse

00:22:23.420 than many other comedians even though i'm actually russian yeah we all try and then we all also say

00:22:28.120 well where was i croatia yeah i don't know where no but you know what i mean like i think yeah if

00:22:33.660 you ask people are you in favor of free internet a lot of people will say yeah but in general

00:22:38.340 they're not in favour of the state providing a ton of free stuff for people

00:22:42.520 because they have to work for a living

00:22:45.480 and it's kind of like ingrained in people.

00:22:47.460 Well, that loss of responsibility for your own stuff, right?

00:22:49.700 You might get a free ticket to go and see a great band at the O2 or whatever

00:22:54.680 and you will enjoy that night.

00:22:56.540 But I'll tell you something, the ticket that you paid for

00:22:58.400 that you sat and the day it was coming out, 9am, they go on sale

00:23:02.400 and you sat, I was going to say on the phone, making myself...

00:23:05.040 They go, OK, boomer, right?

00:23:07.240 I sat there, I was looking on seed facts

00:23:09.220 until the U2 tickets come up,

00:23:11.580 but you did yourself, you're going to enjoy more.

00:23:13.220 It's got a sweeter feeling to it.

00:23:14.660 And I do worry that over the years,

00:23:16.520 and this is under successive governments,

00:23:17.900 and also a lot under the Conservatives

00:23:20.160 who've got a lot of these patrician elements themselves,

00:23:23.080 it's just bit by bit taking stuff out of people's control.

00:23:26.380 And I just worry that if you remove those things

00:23:28.100 from the human character, you stop evolving in a way.

00:23:30.860 It's a really important thing,

00:23:32.800 taking responsibility for your own shit.

00:23:34.900 It's an empowering narrative

00:23:35.960 because the good thing about it

00:23:37.800 is that you have the capacity to change it yourself.

00:23:40.500 If you sort of abdicate responsibility, you're powerless.

00:23:43.660 I have to believe that I can make stuff better for myself,

00:23:46.940 sometimes to a deluded fault, you know.

00:23:49.400 But all the time you spend thinking

00:23:51.440 other people have kind of taken away opportunities from you.

00:23:54.780 It's time that you could be spent pursuing them yourself.

00:23:58.080 Obviously, there's certain elements of social justice

00:24:00.520 that need to be pursued.

00:24:02.160 But in terms of getting shit done in your own life,

00:24:04.160 That's mainly what you'd have to focus on.

00:24:07.960 And the thing that I was very, very surprised by,

00:24:11.660 and I didn't predict in the slightest,

00:24:14.120 was this new authoritarianism creeping into the left,

00:24:17.480 particularly when it comes to COVID.

00:24:19.440 Oh, we've got a lot.

00:24:20.300 I think it was Zahra Soltana said,

00:24:21.580 we've got to lock down everything until, you know,

00:24:24.140 there's not one COVID case left.

00:24:25.880 Are you nuts?

00:24:26.460 I mean, there are certain incantations on the left

00:24:29.500 that really worried me.

00:24:30.800 And I think that no one's safe till everyone's safe.

00:24:34.000 First up, if you can imagine someone doing that as they say it,

00:24:37.780 it's probably bollocks.

00:24:38.840 No one's safe till everyone's...

00:24:39.940 That's just fucking not true.

00:24:41.940 It's not true of anything.

00:24:42.960 No one's drunk till everyone's drunk.

00:24:44.260 That's not true.

00:24:45.420 Okay?

00:24:46.020 No one's safe till everyone's safe.

00:24:47.860 Sounds like the kind of thing that Jason Statham would say

00:24:50.060 just before he hops out of a fucking Chinook.

00:24:52.640 Okay, no one's safe till everyone's safe.

00:24:54.540 What's that, Jason?

00:24:55.040 That's not even logically possible.

00:24:56.880 And I think the problem with those kind of incantations

00:24:59.740 is the purpose of them is not for other people.

00:25:02.380 is because it makes you feel good as you say it.

00:25:05.060 And if you're saying or doing something because it makes you feel good

00:25:07.660 rather than because it makes a change for the people that need it,

00:25:10.560 that's selfishness.

00:25:11.540 That's the opposite of what the left purport to be.

00:25:14.660 And, you know, the Blair Project and New Labour

00:25:16.460 was about the left kind of reining in certain instincts

00:25:19.840 because they knew that the only way that you could really make a change for people

00:25:22.540 was to have the levers of power,

00:25:24.520 whereby there are some elements of the modern left.

00:25:26.840 For them, principled opposition seems to be a more important thing

00:25:31.740 than actually being in power, which I'd argue, weirdly, is narcissistic.

00:25:38.760 Francis, do you like biscuits?

00:25:41.680 Stupid question.

00:25:42.980 If you like biscuits as much as him, you have to try Zingy Berry Bakery.

00:25:48.240 They're a small family-run bakery that make award-winning sweet cookies and savoury crackers.

00:25:53.920 Francis will explain how many awards they've won, won't you, Francis?

00:25:56.640 their sumptuous cookies are made with whole grain oats and real butter while their savory crackers

00:26:03.660 are made with whole grain oats and are both wheat and dairy free they've got a brilliant offer all

00:26:09.000 you have to do is enter our code which is of course triggered on your first order and you'll

00:26:13.700 not only get 10 off they'll give you free delivery as well that's 10 off and free delivery on your

00:26:19.760 first order with our code which is triggered go to zingerberrybakery.co.uk the link is in the

00:26:26.880 description it's zingerberrybakery.co.uk and get your biscuits today i think i've eaten too many

00:26:33.100 biscuits never heard him say that before the point that we always have to ask ourselves is where do

00:26:41.280 we go from here because the reality is things are it seems desperate don't you don't you all right

00:26:48.080 mate yeah i'm not i'm gonna look the thing is he's sad for democracy i'm genuinely sad well i

00:26:55.780 mean look we've got one party states in three different parts of britain yeah right it's not

00:27:00.400 great no no it's not it's not great smb labour got uh uh white whales yeah great the big one

00:27:07.780 yep and you know uh the one place that can actually win you a majority in parliament which

00:27:12.960 is england is run by the toys it it isn't fantastic but is it maybe a degree to which

00:27:18.740 we've all retreated into identities yeah people who are tory now more tory aren't they you know

00:27:23.740 i've i do worry about this as well so it's something that the left certain people on the

00:27:27.320 left on the online hard left have done is every time there's a vote and every time you get called

00:27:32.260 selfish or stupid they sort of radicalize tories people that voted tory for the first time i think

00:27:38.960 oh yeah just on this occasion i'll lend boris my vote or or maybe i'll vote cameron this time

00:27:43.120 because i think that you know after the credit crunch labor had spent a lot maybe oh i'm a

00:27:46.920 ignorant selfish twat it's like you know like certain things the the us did in the middle east

00:27:53.120 radicalized radical islamists i think you've got people that are way more tory now than they would

00:27:58.060 have otherwise been and of course it goes the other ways and you know i have noticed on the

00:28:02.600 online right there's an element of kind of intellectual certainty that's creeping in and

00:28:07.420 those people on the left are never going to come over if they've been called certain names as well

00:28:10.940 but I just think that if you look across a 10-year period that was a phenomenon that certainly

00:28:16.120 seemed to start on the left you go great that person is probably going to vote Tory for the

00:28:19.920 next three elections it is weird do you know like my old man he was in the Labour Party I am

00:28:24.920 there's I am sort of sad about what's happening and that might sound mealy-mouthed but I wanted

00:28:30.180 to be like yeah you know the old thing but I don't know something happened for me after that 2019

00:28:34.900 general election I'm not as tribal as I was I start you know this culture war thing it's a bit

00:28:40.940 ridiculous sometimes and it pulls you into points of view that you wouldn't have otherwise had you

00:28:44.760 go I don't know why I'm this angry about Megan Markle I don't care that much you know so there

00:28:50.440 are certain issues whereby you go no so I'm trying to to just stop and think what do I think exactly

00:28:56.460 and I think we've had this chat before Constantine actually the more precise about what you think

00:29:01.960 the more that you piss people off right yeah so i did a radio 4 special recently and there was a

00:29:06.880 section in the middle of it about black lives matter and of course you know i critiqued some

00:29:10.780 of the hypocrisies about how people responded to the mass gatherings and also about uh certain

00:29:15.760 political motives on the groups uh but also after a couple of weeks of black lives matter it did

00:29:21.020 make me stop and reflect about the experience of you know black people in this country and

00:29:24.820 the message that i had in that bit was probably one that would be seen as quite liberal and left

00:29:29.120 wing and of course i had like twats coming for me on facebook you know direct messages i always get

00:29:34.280 the cowards on direct messages and then are you sold out to the libs and stuff again the idea that

00:29:39.280 like the consequence of a culture war would just own every single opinion i have is ridiculous yeah

00:29:44.820 but the danger is is when you step out of line then you know you could the way that the left

00:29:49.980 have developed their own i do wonder if that's something that's going to start happening well

00:29:53.420 it is happening it is happening and it's not even left or right it's anything like nowadays

00:29:57.620 is the moment we interview someone whose views don't align precisely

00:30:01.040 with like John 7321, he's outraged.

00:30:06.260 And John 73, he's never watching trigonometry again.

00:30:09.600 And it's like, well...

00:30:10.880 Well, then John 7321 doesn't have any conviction in his views, right?

00:30:17.240 The truth is, and when I have people on the podcast that disagree with me,

00:30:19.980 the reason I'm able to nod along and listen

00:30:22.400 is because I have conviction in what I think.

00:30:24.540 I'm not challenged.

00:30:25.600 If there's something that makes me challenge what I think,

00:30:27.420 I'm glad about that.

00:30:28.520 Oh, I'd never thought about it that way.

00:30:30.320 But I'm not, like, fundamentally triggered.

00:30:33.080 I mean, you remember that gif of that girl, you know, the triggered girl?

00:30:36.080 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:36.740 You always say that, and I always think about her.

00:30:38.260 She could probably tour off that.

00:30:40.340 The triggered girl.

00:30:41.260 I wonder whether...

00:30:41.860 Because that gif is quite old now, isn't it?

00:30:44.700 She's probably...

00:30:45.620 Yeah, it's from Trump.

00:30:46.640 From the first Trump.

00:30:47.120 She's probably...

00:30:47.720 She might even be a Republican now.

00:30:50.120 The triggered girl.

00:30:51.540 But that was always, like, a trope of the left,

00:30:54.200 and it does concern me that these guys,

00:30:56.040 the last thing these kind of like hard right guys or people that are really enmeshed in the

00:31:00.920 culture war would think is that they're anything like that girl and yet when you get upset by who's

00:31:05.900 wearing poppies and who's not wearing poppies I'd argue you're exactly like that girl you know and

00:31:10.540 I would love it if everybody wanted to respect the sacrifice that were made in world wars for

00:31:15.400 this country I'd love it if everyone just felt like that but if they don't maybe that's partly

00:31:19.480 what we were fighting for was their right to fucking not do that yeah completely now we've

00:31:25.440 been in lockdown we've seen the culture wall ramp up what effect do you think that's going to have

00:31:29.520 on comedy um well it was interesting wasn't it because i think last time i was on we were like

00:31:34.560 hey man let's just all chill out let's let's let's do some balloon modeling and actually i think the

00:31:41.220 the capacity for people to just stay at home and kind of lose themselves in online opinions

00:31:47.020 did exacerbate and i think that there was a period of you know certainly with the start of

00:31:52.180 the statue toppling and everything seemed to be,

00:31:55.900 everything was more radical.

00:31:57.040 Every protest became more militant.

00:31:59.700 And, you know, last summer, in particular last summer,

00:32:02.700 you know, there were shows getting removed from the BBC

00:32:06.440 and it did seem, I think that that period, again,

00:32:09.820 if you want to analyse all the things that have caused

00:32:12.180 this vote swing towards Conservatives in England,

00:32:15.540 that's all part of it.

00:32:16.740 Of course it is.

00:32:17.180 Because people go, that's what the left is, you know?

00:32:18.940 They want to stop things.

00:32:20.000 They used to be the fun guys.

00:32:21.320 I remember in the 90s, the left was the free speech thing.

00:32:25.020 You know, another thing I found funny recently is,

00:32:27.420 you'll probably both have had this, is people online,

00:32:30.240 they don't understand how they sound to a broad audience of people.

00:32:33.480 So often they'll say, yeah, he's one of these free speech guys.

00:32:36.540 You go, that sounds all right.

00:32:39.140 Yeah, he's one of these free speech warriors.

00:32:41.180 Well, sounds like a good warrior.

00:32:42.700 Why would being a free speech warrior,

00:32:44.520 how the fuck have we got to the point where left-wing people

00:32:47.620 think that identifying people as being a free speech warrior is a bad thing but that is one of

00:32:54.020 the processes and consequences of descending and burrowing as hard as you can into an echo chamber

00:32:59.620 and the first chat we had about echo chambers echo chambers was after 2015 election and it does feel

00:33:05.580 like of late everyone was like no i need to get outside of my echo chamber but of late it feels

00:33:09.820 like people go no i think i need to fucking like reinforce with concrete balustrades and a steel

00:33:15.100 roof because they've sort of experimented with it they've realized that they can't persuade people

00:33:19.140 so they've they've kind of hunkered down and also we haven't been able to see people face to face

00:33:24.800 like we might not agree on everything but we can have a chat and the human element is there and

00:33:29.380 we're sort of understanding we're both human beings but online none of that none of that

00:33:33.520 exists and none of that happens you're just an avatar to me and i my job is to destroy you with

00:33:37.800 facts and logic well that's what i find so often when when people i've had falling out to people

00:33:41.640 on twitter then we meet in person they go there's a thing called between us i was like we fell out

00:33:45.280 on twitter do you know what i mean that's to me that's like playing your mate at playstation

00:33:49.280 you're lobbing the joy pad and just fucking going for a walk around the block because you're angry

00:33:53.020 that's the level i see it as but a lot of people have made that confusion between that and real

00:33:57.140 life and even on my lads whatsapp group there was a couple of political discussions over the last

00:34:01.280 few days about brexit and i thought you know what let's just stop talking about it because

00:34:05.320 i know that if we had this chat over a pint this would be fine this would be absolutely be nothing

00:34:10.580 like um the chat that we have now but i think i wonder if people become addicted to the adrenaline

00:34:16.020 that a good old tear up gets yeah people that feel alive don't they you know when you know what

00:34:20.300 you oppose you know what you believe in people feel a lot and a lot of these it's mainly middle

00:34:24.360 aged blokes let's be honest here's always middle aged blokes they watch question time they drink

00:34:28.480 some merlot and then and and i think i don't feel like that i'm not i don't think and maybe i

00:34:35.200 communicate badly i don't feel like a combative person but the problem is is when you know when

00:34:39.640 you tweet something i'm often they'll think i'm i treat it like this is a bit funny isn't it

00:34:45.100 they'll think i'm in a finger jabbing fuck you lefties way but that's not my style and and maybe

00:34:51.840 that's why i'm really excited to get back out touring in september yeah he's dead well that

00:34:56.080 was smooth yeah oh so smooth keep it touring keep telling keep telling but but just because then if

00:35:03.400 someone wants to pull what you're saying out of context they'll have to literally invent a mood

00:35:07.780 that wasn't in the room yeah you know when you're in what the brilliant thing about stand-up is this

00:35:11.720 very uh permissive environment and you say things and people can see you being a bit cheeky you know

00:35:16.680 they can see your body language then you go all right if you want to come out of that room and

00:35:20.400 then pretend that i meant something else then fine but at least you knew in the moment uh what i was

00:35:24.740 driving at that's what you know talking about comedy francis was asking but that's you know i

00:35:29.300 opened for you a few times and that's why i was found about your approach to comedy even you were

00:35:34.240 much less even than me like you are really trying to see things from the other person's point of

00:35:40.220 view so i would be the controversial person opening for you and then you'd come in and

00:35:44.260 yeah that sort in a way was probably more conciliatory than the one that i'm taking

00:35:48.520 no i just fucking transgenders coming over yes i've just got more i think i've got more i know

00:35:57.840 what i think more now and i've wanted to talk about culture war stuff for a while but i haven't

00:36:01.800 had the jokes I haven't had the way of saying it but just recently there have been a few things

00:36:05.480 that have occurred to me that I go yeah that's what I think it's like I'm genuinely not angered

00:36:10.520 by anybody having a different sexual identity or fitting in someone on this kind of like

00:36:15.140 rainbow spectrum I'm going to be a bold mood if you were just coming out you know the guys

00:36:20.820 but on the other you know we talk about like sexuality and gender and having so many different

00:36:27.060 versions it just suddenly occurred to me that masculinity and femininity were already a

00:36:31.420 spectrum right we already knew you already had members of your family that you knew that the

00:36:36.160 simple notions of masculinity and femininity didn't exactly apply to them you know i mean so

00:36:40.620 your uncle john that collected the porcelain dolls or whatever you go you know john like

00:36:44.880 that it was different for him and you know you know that fucking kim kardashian and sue perkins

00:36:49.180 aren't the same right so that already existed people are smart enough to already know so if

00:36:54.160 people want to have a hundred words that's fine it doesn't anger me but i also think that it's

00:36:59.920 Perhaps there's a bit of presentism about thinking

00:37:03.680 that previous generations weren't aware

00:37:06.140 of those differences anyway.

00:37:08.600 And that's my point is, I suppose the point of the new tour

00:37:12.020 in a way is going to be, I'm not angry about this,

00:37:15.160 but I do think some of it's a bit fucking weird.

00:37:17.300 But why?

00:37:18.100 Yeah, and it is true, it's a bit fucking weird.

00:37:22.180 I'm glad the way he doubled down on it as well.

00:37:24.840 Jeff was like, it's a bit fucking weird.

00:37:26.500 Francis was like, it's a bit fucking weird.

00:37:28.360 Yeah, well, I mean, right now, there's the kind of quote.

00:37:31.240 So if somebody was against you in that moment,

00:37:33.260 this is how the internet will work,

00:37:35.280 they would think that what I was saying is

00:37:37.580 it's a bit fucking weird about other sexualities.

00:37:40.200 If they already think you're a bad person,

00:37:42.440 that is what they would take for that.

00:37:43.880 When I was talking about the kind of totality of culture war stuff

00:37:47.420 and the changing of liberal languages and definitions,

00:37:51.620 that's a really good example of how that could work.

00:37:54.020 Why are people who are not exactly like you fucking weird, Jeff?

00:37:58.360 And vice versa, there'll be John whoever going,

00:38:02.360 I can't believe there's only two genders.

00:38:04.180 Well, maybe there is, but Jeff is just talking.

00:38:06.340 He's just having a chat.

00:38:07.700 You know, like he's got some jokes about it.

00:38:09.540 Why don't you go and listen to them?

00:38:10.540 Yeah, I'm not.

00:38:10.980 I mean, the truth is, I'm not angry about anything.

00:38:13.500 And my counsellor would tell you, that's one of the biggest problems.

00:38:15.880 One of the things I'm freakishly not angry.

00:38:17.560 I would actually probably be helpful for me

00:38:19.240 if I could get on and have it out with John 72, 31.

00:38:22.480 Yeah.

00:38:25.720 Hey, KK.

00:38:26.520 Hey, are you a fan of cultural appropriation?

00:38:29.100 Of course.

00:38:29.880 I can't go down to the local supermarket unless I'm dressed like a Mexican bandit,

00:38:34.580 or as I like to think about it, your cousin.

00:38:36.620 In that case, you're going to love beer rebel noodles.

00:38:39.780 They make award-winning delicious ramen noodles with an Irish twist.

00:38:43.800 What, bankruptcy and alcoholism?

00:38:45.340 No!

00:38:46.040 All their noodles are homemade using high-quality ingredients.

00:38:49.720 In fact, respected food critic Jay Rayner called them deserving of poetry.

00:38:55.000 What a cuck man up, Jay.

00:38:56.980 Their sauces, noodles and broths are created using skills

00:38:59.780 that were developed over years of working in Michelin-starred kitchens.

00:39:04.020 They're dead easy to make, the noodles take one minute to cook

00:39:07.020 and the whole dish takes only 10 minutes to put together

00:39:10.180 in the comfort of your own home.

00:39:12.220 I'm hungry just explaining this to you.

00:39:14.220 You're always hungry, mate.

00:39:15.400 I mean, that's a fair point.

00:39:16.700 Go to bearebel.com.

00:39:18.800 That's B-I-A-R-E-B-E-L.com

00:39:23.040 and get a tasty flavour of the East in your dinner time.

00:39:29.520 Where do you think the landscape is going to change

00:39:32.200 when it comes to comedy on TV?

00:39:33.880 Because The Mash has been cancelled,

00:39:35.720 there's a real thirst for centrist political comedy,

00:39:40.080 comedy that attacks both the left and the right.

00:39:42.380 Do you think that there's going to be a TV company

00:39:45.560 who's bold enough to make that?

00:39:46.880 Or do you think we're going to be playing the same furrow as before?

00:39:50.120 Well, I mean, as I was saying, I think comedy's already changed.

00:39:53.040 It's a question of whether TV catches up.

00:39:55.320 So we know that.

00:39:56.200 You boys have been successful in doing this and other things.

00:39:58.840 Andrew Doyle's had a best-selling book.

00:40:00.540 Simon Evans tours.

00:40:01.540 Leo's done a great thing.

00:40:02.560 Dominic Frisbee's had a hit song, you know,

00:40:04.800 and if I'm leaving anybody out.

00:40:06.600 There's a lot of evidence that it's already changed.

00:40:09.600 So the only question is, does TV catch up?

00:40:12.500 Interestingly, this last set of election results,

00:40:14.700 I think the Liberal left have been guilty of thinking,

00:40:17.360 well, normal order will be resumed soon.

00:40:19.800 Brexit was just...

00:40:20.740 Okay, the 2019 generally, but they'll all come back to Labour eventually.

00:40:25.700 Normal order will be resumed.

00:40:27.340 I think that these local elections have underlined perhaps that there is a more ongoing change.

00:40:31.860 And I don't know if TV companies can forever ignore this huge percentage of people.

00:40:36.640 And it's not about, I don't want to be in a right-wing comedy show.

00:40:40.200 I don't think anyone in Britain is going, you know what we need?

00:40:43.320 There are a few people, they're mainly online, but he's going, we need it all the other way.

00:40:48.280 That would be a massive mistake, to go from a left-wing bias to a right-wing bias.

00:40:52.040 But what they do want, I think, or find it odd that it doesn't exist,

00:40:55.960 is diversity of opinion.

00:40:57.260 So say, for example, you're on a topical panel show

00:41:00.060 and the issue of Meghan Markle comes up.

00:41:02.000 And say she said something massively, wildly pretentious

00:41:05.140 that is obviously fucking ridiculous to a lot of people.

00:41:07.840 But you may have people on that panel that feel because of the culture war,

00:41:11.400 they're uneasy about criticising Meghan Markle,

00:41:14.100 a woman of colour who already gets a lot of unfair scrutiny from the press.

00:41:16.880 So what you end up with is a panel of people

00:41:18.800 that don't say anything bad about Meghan Markle.

00:41:20.960 You go, well, that's not really where Britain's at.

00:41:23.480 You know, my own view with Meghan and Harry is, again,

00:41:27.360 it's not about anger.

00:41:28.480 It's just that I liked them at the beginning

00:41:30.360 and bit by bit they started to piss me off.

00:41:33.200 And they sort of reminded me of, you know,

00:41:35.840 like a couple you meet on holiday and you befriend them

00:41:37.980 for like a day and you go, oh, Meghan and Harry are such

00:41:41.260 a great couple and then three days later you're like,

00:41:43.780 Jesus, I cannot take these two, you know.

00:41:45.540 that's as simple as it was to me right it's not a controversial thing to say but even that opinion

00:41:50.840 you wouldn't really hear um within a topical panel show so i have discussions with with people there

00:41:56.440 are plenty of people in tv that get this and and again this will be something that a lot of defund

00:42:01.300 the bbc type people won't want to hear there's a lot of people in very high up in the bbc that get

00:42:05.320 this but it's a huge machine so there's a bbc on one hand you know there's various seniorities of

00:42:10.220 commissioners then there's production companies you know and in fairness to production companies

00:42:14.960 when they get into TV, there's a kind of TV show that they want to make.

00:42:18.560 And, you know, the platforming, as they might see it,

00:42:22.920 right-wing views maybe wasn't why they got into television.

00:42:25.420 But the truth is, if terrestrial television doesn't accommodate these views,

00:42:29.680 you know, topical comedy on terrestrial television

00:42:32.620 is going to continue to diminish.

00:42:35.000 And the worst thing is it's a very...

00:42:36.600 Like, if you're pro-BBC, right,

00:42:38.320 it's one of the easiest sticks to beat the BBC with, isn't it?

00:42:41.580 it most topical output would reflect a certain bias however one show and then people just think

00:42:48.180 i'm ass kissing it but i think one show has proved how well it can work is the news quiz

00:42:52.020 um andy's altzman now the the resident host absolutely brilliant but it seems in their

00:42:57.720 lineups most weeks they're having somebody from the other side of the fence and i think it helps

00:43:02.220 everybody because it has certain views represented and it also for the in crucially for the left-wing

00:43:07.580 comics it stops them from feeling like part of the establishment do you know what i mean so

00:43:12.280 somebody brilliant like alan cochran goes on and he makes a joke that that might make a lot of sense

00:43:16.840 outside of metropolitan areas but then the left wing comic can then come back on that and it's

00:43:21.160 just more natural it's so blindingly obvious that this is what needs to happen but as you as you

00:43:26.720 guys know the last time this argument happened there were people insiders at the bbc that somehow

00:43:31.740 claimed that um well it just doesn't make as much sense in london that's where we record most of our

00:43:36.200 stuff but they also said right wingers aren't funny there was someone oh there's no one out

00:43:40.000 there well let me tell you i give i've given people a list of people that i know and i've

00:43:44.500 said if you ever want to have a chat with me after that came out i said look these are all

00:43:48.320 the funny people that you could call upon if you so wished and the idea that somebody like me

00:43:53.280 couldn't have a good gig in london london and people wouldn't believe this but it's the easiest

00:43:56.360 place for me to sell tickets by a factor of a billion because that's untrue it's not by a

00:44:03.520 million but even when you sort of factor in population differences that is you know that's

00:44:08.760 the place where where where we do best and even if even if you just break down the demographics of

00:44:13.300 london i mean look at the current london mayoral vote even the amount of londoners that voted leave

00:44:18.300 was still several million people yeah so i think there is a resistance in certain quarters but i

00:44:24.620 think in the long run they're not really doing the bbc any favors actually because it's one at

00:44:31.220 Topical comedy is one of the easiest sticks to beat the BBC with.

00:44:35.080 And you don't need, like, a whole panel of people like me.

00:44:38.580 You just need, say there's five people on a show, or seven,

00:44:41.460 one person per show who has that view.

00:44:44.560 I don't think that's too much to ask.

00:44:45.800 And the thing is, if they don't do it, the internet will kill them.

00:44:49.040 It's just as simple as that.

00:44:50.120 The internet's already doing it.

00:44:51.080 You know, my podcast and you guys with this,

00:44:54.000 the reason that these things have done all right

00:44:55.960 is because it's low-hanging fruit, and it's amazing.

00:44:58.940 Thanks, mate.

00:44:59.360 the reason this is not alright

00:45:01.380 is you're a bit shit

00:45:02.440 but no one else is doing it

00:45:03.360 no but you do it well

00:45:04.240 and there's an audience

00:45:05.440 I know exactly

00:45:06.000 there's an audience for it

00:45:06.920 you know

00:45:07.080 and I think certain figures

00:45:08.100 have said

00:45:08.420 oh the reason right wing comedy

00:45:09.840 and I don't think this is about

00:45:10.960 right wing comedy by the way

00:45:11.940 I think it's comedy

00:45:12.640 that reflects another point of view

00:45:14.340 perhaps a small city

00:45:15.320 conservative view in society

00:45:16.440 it hasn't done well

00:45:17.880 because there's not a market for it

00:45:19.060 there is

00:45:20.800 and also

00:45:21.260 you can't say that

00:45:22.600 when the audience

00:45:23.620 for legacy

00:45:25.000 topical shows

00:45:25.900 on television

00:45:26.380 it's just steady

00:45:27.640 managed decline

00:45:28.540 right

00:45:28.940 there's just literally no evidence to stop change in comedy on television so let me ask you just

00:45:34.800 one quick thing on that uh how do you feel about mash being cancelled well mash yeah i mean look

00:45:39.520 i enjoyed it while i did it and i think that in fairness to the show it gets a lot of stick from

00:45:44.180 the left it was and remains the only show to give somebody anywhere right or center

00:45:47.880 a regular platform that's true you know no one has even come close to that you know a lot of

00:45:52.680 people think i've been on certain shows and i haven't i'm happy for them to think that i have

00:45:56.860 mash gave a regular you know and and obviously the tone and stuff of that show i had to fit in

00:46:02.220 with the show um to a point but i was still able to say things i was still able to make jokes about

00:46:07.280 jk rowling gary lineker you know jokes about second referendum jokes about jeremy corbyn

00:46:12.660 i think what it was was when it went left wing went very left wing but it also had uh it had

00:46:18.160 jokes from the desk that were about corbyn and stuff so it did have quite a lot of balance in

00:46:23.700 and I look back on the bits that I did with Nish

00:46:25.460 and I think that, I didn't realise that at the time

00:46:27.180 but that was something quite unique, you know

00:46:28.700 they were two people of very different opinions

00:46:31.540 trying to sort of get along

00:46:33.820 you know, it was a challenging thing to do

00:46:36.520 in terms of getting a piece that kind of worked together

00:46:39.440 the audience, the audience were good to me by the way

00:46:41.420 you know, they were very left-leaning and remaining

00:46:44.800 but they were fair with me

00:46:46.160 and one of my best memories of that show was

00:46:48.100 it was at the time just before, I think it was late 2019, right

00:46:51.840 Labour didn't really have a Brexit position

00:46:53.520 and they'd come up with this position

00:46:55.880 which was that they were going to get a new deal,

00:46:59.900 take it to Brussels and then have a referendum on it

00:47:02.820 where they campaigned against it.

00:47:04.380 And I was trying so hard to write a joke on it

00:47:06.460 and then I just said that in the room

00:47:08.440 and then the audience pissed themselves laughing.

00:47:10.860 And I thought that's a left-wing remaining audience mainly

00:47:13.200 and it just underlined that there was a spirit of fair play in the room.

00:47:16.880 So yeah, of course a show that you're in regularly is a shame

00:47:21.480 but then I think if that show's not going to exist

00:47:23.240 there needs to either be in existing shows,

00:47:26.060 there needs to be more of people like us,

00:47:29.320 or there needs to be something new that picks up that slack.

00:47:32.240 Do you think it was a political decision?

00:47:35.680 I might give you an hour political answer.

00:47:38.620 I think that when a show doesn't get renewed,

00:47:41.620 it wasn't actually cancelled, it was a slight difference,

00:47:44.580 it is more than just one thing.

00:47:46.440 It is more than just one thing.

00:47:48.960 And Geoff, don't you think, like,

00:47:51.360 you see the fact that these producers look at declining engagement,

00:47:56.680 declined viewership, don't really do anything to change it.

00:48:00.720 It's mirrored by left-wing politicians seeing declining votes

00:48:04.880 and, again, seemingly doing nothing to change it.

00:48:08.500 I do think that.

00:48:11.300 Do you know what?

00:48:12.080 I've learnt this thing when you're doing interviews.

00:48:13.960 You put it so well.

00:48:15.260 I went and go, all I'd have done was say what you said

00:48:18.560 with different words.

00:48:19.320 Yeah.

00:48:19.680 Yeah, I agree, basically.

00:48:21.360 And again, that is a problem, but I don't think they're going to change,

00:48:25.700 if I'm being honest, because to me, they see it as a moral issue.

00:48:31.520 They see conservatives' right of centre as being immoral.

00:48:34.800 But who's they, though, when you say they?

00:48:36.440 I think the people who are on the left, the people who are staunch Labourite.

00:48:40.820 We see them, and again, look, it's all anecdotal.

00:48:43.280 You look at the social media, whatever else,

00:48:45.760 they see the people on the right as being immoral.

00:48:48.700 There are a constituency of people that see it that way,

00:48:53.580 and you're going to love this,

00:48:55.020 but even with the book that I've got coming out,

00:48:56.760 but the editor of that book,

00:48:59.680 the guy that commissioned me to make that book,

00:49:02.080 the guy that's invested in that book,

00:49:04.340 is very left-wing.

00:49:05.980 There are people that do see that this is not helpful to the left,

00:49:09.420 and maybe, I guess what I'm saying, Francis,

00:49:11.320 maybe that's where it'll come from.

00:49:12.700 They've realised, you know, I've got this cycle.

00:49:14.860 I'm such a simple person, right,

00:49:16.200 But Norcott's cycle is to right win elections, left double down on culture.

00:49:20.660 That's it, right? It keeps going like that.

00:49:22.180 So they think, fuck you, OK, you won that last election.

00:49:24.540 I'll tell you what, our TV show is going to be even more left-wing.

00:49:27.920 And then working class people go, well, I'm a bit worried about all that.

00:49:30.720 I think this doesn't seem to represent my experience.

00:49:32.300 I think I'll vote Tory again.

00:49:33.300 They go, oh, vote Tory again, did you?

00:49:34.920 Well, check out our new TV show and this cycle.

00:49:38.000 Check out our adverts, right?

00:49:40.460 And check out our stances.

00:49:42.000 And it's this ridiculous kind of merry-go-round

00:49:43.860 when what it really needs is people on the left to actually go,

00:49:45.900 But it's just good old-fashioned conservative pragmatism.

00:49:49.420 This isn't helping us.

00:49:51.060 We've now had 11 years of this.

00:49:52.760 We haven't really won any major elections

00:49:54.500 apart from Khan in the last mayor election,

00:49:57.080 probably again this time by a smaller margin.

00:49:59.540 Maybe we should do it differently.

00:50:01.480 And I think the fear maybe was that if we allow it a voice,

00:50:04.340 it will get bigger.

00:50:04.960 Well, it's got bigger without having a voice.

00:50:07.920 There's a little soundbite.

00:50:08.880 Did you see the way I did like that?

00:50:10.420 It's got bigger without...

00:50:11.880 I fucking flipped it around, didn't I?

00:50:13.520 and what what do you think is going to be the future of the bj do you reckon it's going to

00:50:18.840 survive uh yeah i do i want it to survive i mean there's there's a lot of reasons why

00:50:23.260 right now thumbs down on the video we're both on record saying we think the bbc

00:50:29.100 should survive provided it can evolve with the times yeah yeah i think but there's lots of

00:50:34.460 reasons i've heard recently that i think i mean one is like a bbc music on air like commercial

00:50:39.720 radio stations their playlists are a fraction of what the BBC is right so if you one thing I love

00:50:44.160 one thing I'm really patriotic about in this country is our music culture it's incredible

00:50:47.620 yeah we absolutely smashed the but per capita the amount of great songs we've produced in this

00:50:53.340 country should be a source of pride for fucking everybody and part of the reason for that is that

00:50:57.020 you can get a lot more different music on when you've got a state broadcaster than when you've

00:51:00.580 just got a commercial broadcaster and I think you know the investment uh in comedy and sometimes you

00:51:05.540 know we did the funeral of prince philip and the early days of covid there is a capacity uh to bring

00:51:10.980 people together and i think that there are like i say there are people at the bbc in a very senior

00:51:16.460 positions that do get this and it's now becoming a fundamental point is that diversity has to

00:51:22.460 include diversity of viewpoint it can't the whole the idea that the output in media tv shows and

00:51:29.500 stuff and news should reflect broadly what britain is it's a good idea you know i mean it's a fucking

00:51:34.020 logical idea right everyone should have a place at that table but it loses credibility if it doesn't

00:51:39.480 include viewpoint right that's where a lot of people tap out but that's not fair you're prioritizing

00:51:44.360 all other kinds of diversity apart from people you disagree with so people do get it the point

00:51:50.180 is is the culture i mean it's such a huge employer of how much time the people that are currently at

00:51:55.200 the top have and i mean it's like oil tanker turning it around keep it's the same message

00:52:01.000 again and again we're not changing this this is this is the new course and you're going to have

00:52:06.060 to uh you're going to have to get on board and again it's like this will benefit the left if

00:52:10.980 people love the bbc then actually a bit more uh diversity of viewpoint and also you know

00:52:16.420 programming from people from working class backgrounds that's going to help you because

00:52:20.880 it's going to help the bbc to exist longer jeff listen man it's always great to chat it's good

00:52:26.580 to see you again last time we recorded an interview it was literally the day before the

00:52:31.220 pandemic like properly kicked off oh there's a new one coming yeah it's sort of it seems to have hit

00:52:36.680 the labor party first this time uh but there's i don't there's not really a new pandemic coming

00:52:41.120 you both look to me like what's he talking about what the fuck has he heard didn't check the news

00:52:47.200 this morning apparently there's a new pandemic guys no everything's gonna everything's gonna

00:52:51.780 be fine i i'm a good you know what's all part of my politics just optimism i have a general feeling

00:52:56.840 that things are going to be all right we're going to do okay it's a great country you know and that's

00:53:01.220 what allows someone like a fucking occasional charlotte and like boris johnson to do all right

00:53:05.520 because that's all he does yeah level up great jobs jobs jobs jabs jabs jabs you know you know

00:53:11.020 i don't often say this but to to the russian mind boris johnson being the leader of this country is

00:53:16.800 inexplicable. It is. It is

00:53:18.740 inexplicable. It is weird.

00:53:20.740 How have you got this guy?

00:53:23.520 People love him. That fucking

00:53:24.780 inflatable Boris Johnson. Yeah.

00:53:27.120 Inholdible. Do you know what I mean? I don't

00:53:28.800 think I've ever, you know, the most conservative

00:53:30.660 I ever was, I still didn't have a thing

00:53:32.840 in the window. Yeah. You know what I mean? That

00:53:34.720 person's gone, you know what I'm going to do?

00:53:36.960 You know what, Geoff? In the interest of balance,

00:53:38.820 and this is what balance looks like, we spend 50

00:53:40.840 minutes bashing the left. It's always good.

00:53:42.680 We're going to do two minutes at the end about the Tories.

00:53:45.140 Our mutual friend who you've already referred to, Dominic Frisby,

00:53:47.620 tweeted about this election that's just happened,

00:53:49.520 saying the problem with this is it's going to make the Tories

00:53:52.360 think they're doing a good job.

00:53:53.760 Yes.

00:53:54.640 I mean, that was a brilliant point

00:53:56.700 because they haven't on a lot of issues.

00:53:59.160 And one of the biggest issues with the Conservatives

00:54:01.060 is communications have been dreadful, often dreadful.

00:54:03.980 Flip-flopping, coming out with really strong stances.

00:54:06.280 Gavin Williamson, right?

00:54:08.200 I'm going to take schools to court.

00:54:11.600 Oh, no, actually, we're having a lockdown anyway.

00:54:13.440 Fucking just stand back a bit, mate.

00:54:14.740 Just fall back until you've actually got a policy.

00:54:17.640 They're also quite patrician and nanny-state-ish.

00:54:21.080 And the other thing is, Boris, because in a way his own vanity

00:54:24.200 needs him to have younger, more impressionable politicians around him,

00:54:27.100 they did away with a lot of really experienced politicians.

00:54:29.880 Javid, Casey and Paul.

00:54:30.860 Javid, Penny Morden, Amber Rudd, really good skilled people.

00:54:34.560 People like Nicky Morgan have gone.

00:54:36.840 So there's a generation of politicians below them

00:54:39.300 that just have been learning on the job at a really difficult time.

00:54:42.940 I think one thing is they have done the hours now.

00:54:45.360 It would probably be good to keep them around

00:54:47.020 because they've done hours and hours of media time.

00:54:50.280 But someone like, for a conservative,

00:54:51.880 somebody like Matt Hancock,

00:54:53.000 who suddenly fucking decided he was the nation's stepdad,

00:54:56.420 has been very difficult to stomach.

00:54:58.600 You know, I think when the new variant came along,

00:55:00.660 everything changed to a point.

00:55:01.940 But before that, Matt Hancock sort of go,

00:55:03.740 well, I'm going to try and let you have Christmas.

00:55:06.240 And he goes, who fucking gave this guy somebody?

00:55:09.340 I mean, I'm not advocating bullying,

00:55:10.400 but please just flush his head down the toilet briefly.

00:55:12.940 Because there were points last year...

00:55:16.260 I would love to be there.

00:55:18.200 But you know, with Matt Hancock,

00:55:19.720 he'd be the guy that after the third time that happened,

00:55:21.880 he'd learn to love the taste of toilet water.

00:55:24.660 That's how he would power himself,

00:55:26.500 like a sort of supervillain.

00:55:28.560 And I know that...

00:55:29.080 We've got Tory MPs that watch this show, mate.

00:55:31.360 Mate, look, I'm not owned by anyone.

00:55:33.260 You know, like, and there have been plenty of times,

00:55:34.620 one thing that has been odd to me is, like,

00:55:36.940 people have presumed, like,

00:55:38.680 well, you just got on to kiss the Tory's arses.

00:55:41.580 No, I like critiquing politics generally.

00:55:44.580 I have a bias, definitely.

00:55:46.040 You know, I have a bias.

00:55:47.140 But over the course of last year,

00:55:48.920 if anyone has listened to my podcast or seen me on shows,

00:55:52.440 I've had plenty to say about the Tories.

00:55:55.580 And I do think that some of the cronyism is something that,

00:55:59.240 you know, I think they're quite happy now

00:56:00.620 that it seems to have died down and the interest has died off.

00:56:03.540 But once you get out of the context of a pandemic,

00:56:06.140 saying it felt right at the time,

00:56:08.000 it's one of those arguments in history.

00:56:10.620 There's a lot of stuff that felt right at the time, Matt.

00:56:12.880 But what I don't want to see is you and everyone you know

00:56:15.260 riding around on fucking jet skis

00:56:16.720 because you got rich off a pandemic.

00:56:20.660 I understand they made certain decisions

00:56:22.700 which needed to be made quickly,

00:56:24.720 but that context will fade away over time.

00:56:26.960 And maybe that's one glimmer of hope for the left

00:56:29.400 is we might have a stream of,

00:56:31.400 look at this guy who bought a place

00:56:32.740 in the British Virgin Islands.

00:56:34.640 You might see people that got very wealthy off a pandemic

00:56:37.060 and that might be one of few routes back

00:56:39.400 for the Labour Party.

00:56:40.540 Well, Geoff, it's been absolutely brilliant.

00:56:42.560 Thank you so much for coming on.

00:56:43.780 If people want to find you online,

00:56:45.140 where is the best place to do that?

00:56:46.820 Twitter, Geoff Norcott.

00:56:48.340 And yeah, as I say, you'll find I'll be flogging

00:56:51.040 the shit out of the book, which comes out May 13th.

00:56:53.160 And then the tour, I Blame the Parents, is in September.

00:56:57.120 Check both of those out.

00:56:58.280 And we're going to ask Geoff a couple of questions

00:56:59.740 for our locals before we do that, Geoff.

00:57:01.900 Our last question for the main interview itself

00:57:04.260 is always the same.

00:57:05.160 What is the one thing we're still not talking about

00:57:06.880 that we really should be?

00:57:08.500 Annoyingly, when you said that,

00:57:10.240 I've mentioned them already in the interview,

00:57:13.440 but I do think this desertion of the kind of people

00:57:16.480 that would naturally vote Labour to city centres,

00:57:19.140 I think that that will be where some of the Labour debate goes next.

00:57:22.740 There's not many people talking about that right now.

00:57:25.560 And then the other thing is something that I've just said just now,

00:57:28.720 which is about Tory cronyism.

00:57:30.520 I do think that the major government in 1992 got elected

00:57:33.860 with a reasonable little majority.

00:57:35.600 But over time, sleaze nipped at their heels.

00:57:39.160 I think it is a mistake to think.

00:57:41.060 It's very easy.

00:57:41.760 I mean, I've just said the Labour Party's going to split.

00:57:43.520 But after the 1997 election was up,

00:57:45.640 Tories finished forever.

00:57:46.540 They'll never come back for this.

00:57:48.160 We're all so stuck in the present now.

00:57:50.600 I would be cautious about thinking

00:57:53.680 that this is now 10 years of Boris Johnson.

00:57:56.680 I mean, just look at Boris Johnson and think,

00:58:00.000 could he go 10 years without doing something

00:58:03.040 that sees him launched from office.

00:58:06.340 So I think that maybe the thing that we'll be talking about soon

00:58:09.300 is perhaps there's a lot of hype at the moment

00:58:11.620 about the Tories are embedded for a decade.

00:58:14.120 I personally think that one way or another,

00:58:16.500 whether it's through different coalitions of parties,

00:58:18.200 I don't think it's quite as nailed on as that.

00:58:20.120 I think he's going to carry on doing just fine

00:58:22.100 with even younger and younger girlfriends

00:58:23.520 and younger and younger kids, mate.

00:58:25.280 And that the public will just celebrate.

00:58:26.820 Yeah, exactly. He's had his 15th kid. Well done, Boris.

00:58:30.480 Yeah. Well, you know, there is that weird thing

00:58:32.100 in a lot of other democracies

00:58:33.980 when there are scandals

00:58:35.320 that are supposed

00:58:35.720 to hurt the politician.

00:58:37.040 Do you remember,

00:58:37.540 who was the one?

00:58:37.960 Jean Hollande,

00:58:39.400 the president of France.

00:58:41.520 When he had that affair,

00:58:42.640 apparently one of the main things

00:58:44.180 that lost him points

00:58:44.920 in the polls

00:58:45.380 was the tacky way

00:58:46.360 that he arrived for it.

00:58:47.560 He arrived on the back

00:58:48.400 of a moped

00:58:48.960 to his mistress's place.

00:58:51.180 A lot of French people

00:58:51.800 are going,

00:58:52.020 that's outrageous.

00:58:52.760 You're going,

00:58:52.980 yeah, cheating on his wife.

00:58:54.340 They go,

00:58:54.580 no, no, he's on a moped, man.

00:58:56.060 Turn up in a fucking limo, man.

00:58:57.720 Yeah, do it with a bit of class.

00:58:58.960 It's France.

00:58:59.580 They have class, mate,

00:59:00.460 when it comes to these things.

00:59:01.780 Anyway, Geoff, thanks for coming back.

00:59:03.420 Where I Went Right is the book and the tour is Don't Blame the Parents.

00:59:07.160 I Blame the Parents.

00:59:08.060 Not Don't Blame, sorry.

00:59:09.300 It's Where Did I Go Right and...

00:59:11.440 We're going to cut that bit out, mate.

00:59:13.420 Leave it in.

00:59:14.260 Leave it in.

00:59:15.160 Where did Constantine go wrong in saying Where Did I Go Right?

00:59:19.380 I Don't Blame the Parents.

00:59:22.960 It's early in the morning.

00:59:24.140 Maybe if you're a lefty, it's called...

00:59:25.820 Maybe I need two titles.

00:59:26.940 It's called I Don't Blame the Parents.

00:59:28.240 Oh, that sounds nice.

00:59:29.300 Yeah, exactly.

00:59:29.820 Make sure you follow Jeff, he's one of our favourite guests ever,

00:59:33.420 one of our favourite comedians.

00:59:34.740 Jeff, thanks for coming back.

00:59:35.720 We're going to do a couple of quick questions for locals.

00:59:38.280 But in the meantime, thank you for watching.

00:59:39.940 We will see you very soon with another brilliant interview

00:59:42.420 like this one or our show.

00:59:43.900 All of them go out at 7pm UK time.

00:59:45.580 Take care and see you soon, guys.

00:59:59.820 You

TRIGGERnometry - May 12, 2021

Why Labour Keep Losing - Geoff Norcott

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