TRIGGERnometry - Why We Lost

00:00:00.000 Yeah, what happened?

00:00:03.860 We didn't even have a primary.

00:00:05.380 We spent four years pretending Joe Biden was not senile.

00:00:09.500 Of course he was.

00:00:11.620 This kind of loss, it has to wake you up, surely.

00:00:15.820 Do you think it is, though?

00:00:17.100 What is the evidence it's waking us up?

00:00:19.820 Now they've started pointing the fingers at Latinos

00:00:21.760 and you are your white supremacist.

00:00:23.760 Then they go to black men, your white supremacist.

00:00:25.860 It's like this weird version of Oprah.

00:00:28.360 You get a slur, you get a slur, you get a slur.

00:00:31.760 Exactly.

00:00:33.060 And you go, I don't think this is winning hearts and minds.

00:00:36.260 It's not, it's not.

00:00:38.320 If Trump is this bad and people still prefer him over us,

00:00:42.900 what are we doing wrong?

00:00:46.200 Brianna Wu, welcome back to the show.

00:00:48.020 Such a good time, I had such a good time.

00:00:50.220 I was so nervous about my hit with you guys last time.

00:00:53.340 Everyone told me, don't do it, it's going to be hostile.

00:00:56.360 And it was just a fantastic time.

00:00:58.600 It was great for my career.

00:00:59.920 Seth, thank you all so much.

00:01:00.920 Well, you're very welcome.

00:01:03.000 But beyond that, I think we're sitting here

00:01:05.320 in a very interesting moment.

00:01:06.600 You're someone who's very active in supporting

00:01:09.120 the Democratic Party.

00:01:10.960 100%.

00:01:11.420 Proactive within it.

00:01:12.680 And we're sitting here.

00:01:17.020 Yeah.

00:01:17.640 What happened?

00:01:18.880 Well, you know, what didn't happen is they didn't listen

00:01:21.900 to any of the stuff we talked about last time,

00:01:24.560 which was dropping this identity politics bullshit.

00:01:28.380 You know, they didn't take immigration seriously.

00:01:31.740 We did what we do as Democrats, which is we try to be people pleaser.

00:01:36.080 We said nothing that was real.

00:01:37.980 We appealed to the elites.

00:01:39.740 And now our bet is made.

00:01:41.640 And we're going to sleep in it for the next four years.

00:01:44.220 Do you think it is four years?

00:01:45.540 Because my suspicion is if Donald Trump is even remotely effective

00:01:50.080 in governing and delivering the things that the people

00:01:52.640 of this country asked him to do with such a landslide

00:01:57.540 in terms of the electoral vote, the college, the House, Senate,

00:02:02.880 everything, then I don't see why anybody would vote

00:02:06.880 for the Democrats at the next election.

00:02:08.780 Until we get our stuff together, we have to give people

00:02:12.980 a reason to vote for us.

00:02:15.860 I, you know, Constantine, I really see this election

00:02:18.880 is very straightforward, and I've had so many conversations

00:02:23.020 with people.

00:02:23.900 They don't like Trump, but they don't like

00:02:26.660 the Democratic elitists more.

00:02:29.500 They hate us more.

00:02:30.760 They hate progressives more.

00:02:32.520 They hate the people that announce their pronouns more.

00:02:35.700 They hate the people that do land acknowledgements more.

00:02:39.180 They hate the people that derail every single conversation

00:02:42.620 into racial grievance more.

00:02:45.440 They are so sick of that.

00:02:46.920 And until the Democratic Party can, like, back away from the abyss

00:02:50.880 and turn into something that normal people are going to vote for again,

00:02:55.300 yeah, Trump and the Republicans will stay in power.

00:02:57.760 That's just a fact.

00:02:59.460 Brianna, you know what you were saying, and I was in agreement with you,

00:03:03.560 and I think the reason is, is whatever you think about Trump,

00:03:07.160 he's authentic.

00:03:08.120 Yeah.

00:03:08.400 He is who he is, like it or lump it, as we say in the UK.

00:03:11.980 I see the people doing land acknowledgements, my pronouns are blah, blah,

00:03:16.140 and I see them as incredibly inauthentic.

00:03:19.040 100%.

00:03:19.440 It's completely fake.

00:03:21.960 There's a culture in the Democratic Party that I've had a front seat to,

00:03:26.060 and this is how it works.

00:03:27.520 Someone will go to a focus group, and they will sit down and say,

00:03:30.820 well, if you want to talk to black people, here's how you do it.

00:03:33.800 Use these words.

00:03:35.180 You want to talk to women?

00:03:36.780 Go use these words.

00:03:37.980 Do you want to talk to Latinos?

00:03:39.420 Use these words.

00:03:40.920 And what ends up coming is you're like a robot trying to go down the list

00:03:45.540 and please every single member of the coalition.

00:03:48.420 And the result of that is we don't say anything that feels real as Democrats.

00:03:53.360 So until we can just, like, get that out of our head

00:03:57.460 and start talking to working people like they are humans

00:04:01.480 and not some dumb animal to be manipulated,

00:04:05.240 the American people are going to reject us.

00:04:07.440 And to be just really blunt with you,

00:04:10.300 we don't seem to have learned any lessons when Trump won in 2016.

00:04:14.580 I'm not sure we're going to learn any lessons this time around.

00:04:17.720 Do you think that is the power of ideology

00:04:19.540 in that there seems to be a lot of Democrats

00:04:21.700 who've imbibed this progressive ideology?

00:04:24.960 I think it is that with the people that actually work in the Democratic Party,

00:04:31.420 I also think there is a tremendous lack of willpower in our leadership class

00:04:38.300 and our electives.

00:04:39.980 And you see this, like, have y'all ever had a high-level Democrat,

00:04:46.320 you know, member of Congress or the Senate come on your show?

00:04:49.760 No.

00:04:50.340 We have invited them, by the way.

00:04:51.700 Why the hell would they say no to that?

00:04:54.320 They're so scared of going into these environments

00:04:58.360 where the questions aren't very controlled

00:05:00.700 and the conversation isn't on their terms.

00:05:04.040 I've seen this firsthand.

00:05:05.980 That it's just, we are completely missing this entire new generation of media.

00:05:11.360 You know, Donald Trump went on Aiden Ross.

00:05:14.120 You know, he said some spicy stuff.

00:05:15.900 But Donald Trump showed up.

00:05:18.340 He showed that constituency.

00:05:21.160 He cared what they had to say.

00:05:22.440 And what happened with young white men?

00:05:24.580 They voted for him overwhelmingly.

00:05:27.080 We've got to have the guts to go into media environments

00:05:30.040 that may not always be friendly to us.

00:05:32.620 But here's the problem with that, Brianna.

00:05:34.380 You can't go into that environment

00:05:36.380 if you're not authentic to who you are

00:05:39.700 and if you're not honest.

00:05:41.280 You can dislike what Donald Trump says.

00:05:44.180 Yes.

00:05:44.420 But you know that that's what he believes.

00:05:47.120 Yes.

00:05:47.400 Right?

00:05:47.880 So the problem, I think, the reason that people on the Democrat side

00:05:52.280 and this is the same with the left in the UK

00:05:53.960 are less willing to engage in this

00:05:56.800 is that they're not actually being honest about what they believe.

00:06:00.460 And in that case, if I was one of their advisors,

00:06:02.900 I would definitely say to Kamala Harris, don't go on Rogan.

00:06:05.520 Yep, totally fair.

00:06:06.580 Because he's going to ask you reasonable questions

00:06:08.960 and you're going to sound like an idiot

00:06:10.640 because you can't answer them because you're not being honest.

00:06:12.960 Yeah.

00:06:13.040 That's 100% it.

00:06:16.500 We've gotten so comfortable in progressive spaces

00:06:20.000 with never having our ideas challenged.

00:06:23.340 And I see this, I think this is really emblematic right now

00:06:27.120 with trans people.

00:06:29.160 Our leaders in the trans movement,

00:06:31.960 right now they're saying all this nonsense.

00:06:33.900 They're saying this trans ideology

00:06:35.940 had no factor in the election whatsoever.

00:06:39.040 These ads didn't work.

00:06:40.120 You know what, I've run a few television ads

00:06:42.760 in the course of my career.

00:06:44.460 People don't budget $219 million for ads

00:06:48.600 without sitting down and doing some focus groups

00:06:51.400 and seeing if they're going to have salience.

00:06:53.440 Of course this had salience.

00:06:55.720 And of course there's something that we are doing wrong.

00:06:58.780 Of course we have a part to play in where we are today.

00:07:01.720 But there's just no willingness with trans leaders

00:07:05.120 to sit down and go,

00:07:06.540 hey, you know what,

00:07:07.640 the American people are not on board with our message.

00:07:10.860 They're actually really upset with us.

00:07:12.940 What should we do differently?

00:07:14.360 There's just no willingness to examine them.

00:07:16.280 Well, you know, just on that point,

00:07:18.180 when we first interviewed you,

00:07:19.680 we got pushback from kind of people

00:07:22.800 on the gender critical side.

00:07:25.040 Oh, Brianna, we're trans.

00:07:26.360 I was like, oh really?

00:07:27.220 I didn't know that.

00:07:28.300 Because that's how the world used to be with all respect.

00:07:31.940 No one used to really care.

00:07:33.240 That's right.

00:07:33.780 And then these people came along

00:07:35.560 and they started shoving this in everyone's face.

00:07:37.980 That's right.

00:07:38.260 They started putting these books in people's schools.

00:07:40.740 That's right.

00:07:41.040 They started making an issue out of it

00:07:43.020 where really the issue was,

00:07:44.880 let's treat everybody as an individual.

00:07:47.000 100%.

00:07:47.460 And we've got so far away from that.

00:07:49.300 It doesn't surprise me that people are annoyed about it

00:07:53.280 because once you, and I said this,

00:07:55.200 I still remember I said this

00:07:56.580 one of the first realizations I had

00:07:58.400 when we first started the show

00:07:59.880 and we first started talking about this.

00:08:01.260 I was like, if you start fucking with people's kids,

00:08:04.000 That's right.

00:08:04.920 you're going to lose them very quickly.

00:08:07.040 100%.

00:08:07.440 You know, I think you see this with the abortion issue, right?

00:08:10.760 Democrats told ourselves

00:08:12.160 that the only issue women care about is abortion.

00:08:16.080 But that's not true.

00:08:17.280 If you don't know moms to know

00:08:19.160 if you are sending messages to their kindergartners,

00:08:23.140 inviting their kindergartners to fill out a box

00:08:25.480 to tell you what their gender is

00:08:27.060 or their neo-pronouns,

00:08:28.900 those moms are not going to like you very much.

00:08:31.620 So of course we're turning them off.

00:08:33.500 You know, to come back to your first point,

00:08:35.360 I went 20 years without talking about being trans

00:08:38.820 as part of my public profile.

00:08:40.680 I just never wanted it to be what my career is about.

00:08:44.200 But the truth is,

00:08:45.240 you look at these nut jobs

00:08:46.980 that are driving our civil rights right now.

00:08:50.180 I really worry if someone does not stand up

00:08:53.480 and go, we've got to get this movement back to sanity,

00:08:56.560 back to some public policy that people can agree with.

00:09:00.020 I'm terrified about what's going to happen.

00:09:02.740 There's a message you can give people,

00:09:04.680 which is, look, this is my body, my life.

00:09:07.900 I'm going to take this medication.

00:09:10.020 I will accept the responsibility myself.

00:09:13.260 Just let me go make my own choices.

00:09:15.600 People are on board with that.

00:09:17.100 They are not on board with,

00:09:19.140 we're going to announce our pronouns when we meet each other.

00:09:22.120 And if you screw that up,

00:09:23.720 you're going to be socially ostracized.

00:09:26.220 Like there's just this entire culture

00:09:29.140 that's gone with the trans movement

00:09:30.940 that just seems crazy to me as a trans woman.

00:09:33.960 And until that changes,

00:09:36.100 we're going to keep losing ground.

00:09:38.700 And it's a lovely parallel, actually,

00:09:41.060 between the trans movement and the Democrat Party,

00:09:43.280 which is when people don't agree

00:09:45.860 with these type of activists,

00:09:47.240 and we saw this with Kamala Harris,

00:09:49.220 we immediately go to fascism.

00:09:51.200 That's right.

00:09:52.040 And you just listen to that.

00:09:53.640 And as a reasonable person

00:09:55.080 who is left-leaning on a lot of things,

00:09:57.560 I go, well, I'm just not going to engage with you.

00:10:00.220 Yeah.

00:10:00.560 Why should I?

00:10:01.160 Yeah.

00:10:01.980 It goes so extreme and so hyperbolic so quickly.

00:10:06.180 Like, were either of you surprised

00:10:07.920 with how Democrats reacted to this loss?

00:10:10.280 What was it?

00:10:11.000 The American people are racist.

00:10:12.680 The American people are sexist.

00:10:14.580 They want a fascist.

00:10:16.360 The American people are transphobic.

00:10:18.080 Is there any part of this

00:10:19.200 where we look at ourselves in the mirror

00:10:20.980 and go, what role did we as Democrats

00:10:23.780 have to play in the situation we're in?

00:10:26.520 If Trump is this bad

00:10:28.080 and people still prefer him over us,

00:10:31.340 what are we doing wrong?

00:10:33.320 And show me another Democratic operative

00:10:35.820 that's willing to have that conversation.

00:10:38.100 Like, you know,

00:10:38.820 the ability to have real conversations

00:10:41.740 is in such short supply in our party.

00:10:44.800 And may I add as well,

00:10:46.700 it's not American people,

00:10:48.460 it's Latino people.

00:10:49.780 Of course.

00:10:50.220 Now they've started pointing the fingers

00:10:51.800 at Latinos and you are your white supremacist.

00:10:54.320 Then they go to black men,

00:10:55.660 your white supremacist.

00:10:56.500 It's like this weird version of Oprah.

00:10:59.140 Yes.

00:10:59.620 Where everyone's a white supremacist.

00:11:02.060 You get a slur.

00:11:02.980 You get a slur.

00:11:04.000 You get a slur.

00:11:05.100 Exactly.

00:11:06.380 And you go,

00:11:08.220 I don't think this is winning hearts and minds.

00:11:10.440 It's not.

00:11:10.900 It's not.

00:11:11.760 I get called a transphobe every single day.

00:11:14.360 It's the most hilarious thing to me.

00:11:16.180 So where,

00:11:18.980 you know,

00:11:20.040 what I don't really understand about this is,

00:11:22.780 you know,

00:11:23.520 like if you have a friend who's got divorced

00:11:25.280 and maybe he,

00:11:26.200 you know,

00:11:26.420 wasn't paying attention to his wife

00:11:27.940 and maybe he wasn't great with the kid,

00:11:29.320 whatever.

00:11:29.880 Sure.

00:11:30.760 And his wife is like,

00:11:31.860 okay, we're done.

00:11:32.500 And suddenly his eyes are open

00:11:33.820 and he's like,

00:11:34.280 oh shit,

00:11:34.780 I gotta like,

00:11:36.000 maybe I gotta rethink things.

00:11:37.600 Maybe I gotta do this.

00:11:38.600 Maybe I gotta do that.

00:11:40.840 You know,

00:11:41.180 this kind of loss,

00:11:42.720 it has to wake you up,

00:11:44.420 surely.

00:11:45.160 Do you think it is?

00:11:46.180 What is the evidence

00:11:47.380 that's waking us up?

00:11:48.580 I'm not saying

00:11:49.340 there's a lot of evidence.

00:11:51.840 Objectively,

00:11:52.340 I do see one or two people cropping up.

00:11:54.780 You're not the only one.

00:11:55.800 Sure.

00:11:56.520 But not many.

00:11:58.820 But I just think

00:11:59.940 the truth of it is

00:12:02.160 from an outsider perspective,

00:12:03.680 Brianna,

00:12:04.060 that is that

00:12:04.840 if the Democrats

00:12:06.720 don't sort themselves out,

00:12:08.560 you're going to be out of power

00:12:09.700 for 20 years.

00:12:10.480 I agree.

00:12:11.240 I fully agree.

00:12:12.180 It's not like this is rocket science.

00:12:13.780 It's the stuff you said to me

00:12:15.060 the last time we hung out

00:12:16.480 about immigration

00:12:17.700 and taking that seriously.

00:12:19.440 It's the most obvious decision

00:12:21.500 you can possibly have.

00:12:23.060 It's the most obvious position to take.

00:12:25.500 The problem is not the American people.

00:12:28.400 It's the fact that we are a party

00:12:30.900 of elitists.

00:12:32.280 And we are incapable of understanding that.

00:12:35.040 Everything about our culture

00:12:37.220 is just taking

00:12:39.940 is so far away

00:12:41.720 from a mechanic

00:12:43.280 or a taxi driver

00:12:45.160 or a teacher

00:12:46.240 or just a working class person.

00:12:48.600 And we're just so busy

00:12:50.300 smelling our own farts.

00:12:51.660 We can't even see this anymore.

00:12:53.560 So, you know,

00:12:54.560 until they listen to what you were saying

00:12:56.680 the last time around,

00:12:58.060 truly become

00:12:59.140 a anti-corporate power party

00:13:02.380 that is standing with normal people

00:13:04.480 and give up this

00:13:05.820 ultra-messaged approach to everything,

00:13:07.980 we are permanently out of power,

00:13:09.540 exactly as she said.

00:13:10.560 So, can I ask you something weird?

00:13:12.260 Sure.

00:13:12.720 Why are you not

00:13:13.600 in favor of what's just happened?

00:13:16.380 Or are you?

00:13:17.300 No, of course I'm not.

00:13:18.640 Why would I?

00:13:19.380 I, you know,

00:13:20.420 I truly think Trump

00:13:21.740 is a risk to democracy.

00:13:23.980 So, the issues I care about,

00:13:25.820 obviously, trans health care.

00:13:28.060 I think NATO is fantastic.

00:13:30.680 His, you know,

00:13:31.820 his plans to change NATO

00:13:34.880 and to make America

00:13:36.240 less of a leader

00:13:37.560 on the world stage,

00:13:39.020 that gives me a lot of palms.

00:13:41.640 But is it, sorry,

00:13:42.440 I...

00:13:42.680 Please.

00:13:43.140 I just want to explore this.

00:13:44.360 Sorry, Francis.

00:13:44.700 Yeah, it does.

00:13:45.260 I don't want to take a minute.

00:13:46.700 Do you...

00:13:47.440 This is one of the things

00:13:48.640 I'd love for us to get on record now

00:13:50.700 because I see you

00:13:51.820 as a very sensible person

00:13:53.020 on the left

00:13:53.560 who's making a lot of good points.

00:13:55.160 But I also think

00:13:56.420 there has been a lot of

00:13:58.020 misreading

00:13:58.900 and misunderstanding

00:14:00.300 of what Trump has said

00:14:01.560 on many of these issues,

00:14:02.620 which I'd love to explore with you.

00:14:03.940 Let's do it.

00:14:04.680 So, on the trans health care,

00:14:05.840 which you mentioned...

00:14:06.620 Yes.

00:14:07.300 Do you feel that

00:14:08.520 for an adult like you,

00:14:10.820 things are going to become

00:14:11.860 more difficult

00:14:12.560 under his presidency?

00:14:13.960 Very possibly, yes.

00:14:15.840 Because?

00:14:16.680 Well, first of all,

00:14:17.940 if he makes statements about...

00:14:20.080 You know,

00:14:20.240 you can see videos

00:14:21.100 of him talking about

00:14:22.060 ending gender ideology.

00:14:23.500 And it's just very amorphous.

00:14:26.080 I think that

00:14:26.760 if you're looking

00:14:27.400 at some of the trends

00:14:28.240 like Florida

00:14:28.980 making it much harder

00:14:30.480 for adults to get HRT

00:14:32.160 and things like Texas

00:14:33.960 rolling back gender changes

00:14:35.740 for adults legally,

00:14:38.220 this is the way

00:14:39.460 the Republican Party

00:14:40.560 seems to be moving.

00:14:41.980 So,

00:14:42.380 when I look

00:14:44.100 at the Republican Party,

00:14:45.200 they've just won everything

00:14:46.540 by spending

00:14:47.320 a quarter billion dollars

00:14:48.660 attacking people like me.

00:14:50.800 And if that's worked

00:14:52.060 in the past,

00:14:52.740 what incentive

00:14:53.600 did they not have

00:14:54.720 to keep that pressure going?

00:14:56.860 Well,

00:14:57.280 were they attacking

00:14:58.360 people like you

00:14:59.220 or were they saying

00:15:00.180 enough of gender ideology

00:15:01.660 in schools?

00:15:02.840 The message...

00:15:03.600 It's a difference,

00:15:04.180 isn't it?

00:15:04.640 Well,

00:15:04.980 if that was the argument,

00:15:06.560 I could understand that.

00:15:07.760 The ad I'm talking about

00:15:08.960 was essentially

00:15:09.720 equating people like me

00:15:11.280 with a drag queen

00:15:13.120 and saying Trump stands,

00:15:15.340 Kamala stands for

00:15:16.720 they, them,

00:15:18.080 Trump stands for you.

00:15:19.420 Right?

00:15:19.680 So,

00:15:20.300 kind of talking about me

00:15:21.480 like I'm not even human.

00:15:23.500 So...

00:15:23.700 But again,

00:15:24.300 you see,

00:15:24.680 the drag queen thing

00:15:25.560 is I think it's not

00:15:26.700 about you.

00:15:27.780 It's about the fact

00:15:29.660 that you have

00:15:31.500 drag queen story hour.

00:15:33.020 Sure.

00:15:33.460 And people don't want that.

00:15:34.860 Or this non-binary stuff.

00:15:36.220 Right.

00:15:36.440 Like,

00:15:36.720 we're all in this

00:15:37.500 giant soup together.

00:15:38.600 I understand why

00:15:39.320 you would feel

00:15:40.480 that it's about you,

00:15:41.480 but having spoken

00:15:42.420 to a lot of people

00:15:43.200 on the right

00:15:43.640 about this issue,

00:15:44.540 I don't think

00:15:45.120 that's the mainstream

00:15:45.880 view at all.

00:15:46.720 Sure.

00:15:47.800 But you may be right.

00:15:49.280 I don't know.

00:15:50.000 So,

00:15:50.320 I think something

00:15:51.060 I see with y'all

00:15:52.180 is you're tremendously

00:15:53.680 focused on comedians

00:15:55.880 being able to tell jokes.

00:15:57.820 That's something

00:15:58.160 you're tremendously

00:15:59.320 sensitive about.

00:16:00.600 And, yeah,

00:16:00.820 from my perspective,

00:16:01.720 I see that

00:16:02.780 and I'm like,

00:16:04.220 it seems like,

00:16:05.240 you know,

00:16:05.820 like all these comedians,

00:16:07.140 their careers are fine.

00:16:08.300 I watch these specials.

00:16:09.820 Seems like they're doing fine.

00:16:12.020 I think because

00:16:12.920 this is so key

00:16:13.980 to your life,

00:16:15.520 I think you're

00:16:16.160 extraordinarily sensitive

00:16:17.380 about things

00:16:18.160 that could put that in danger.

00:16:19.420 That's how I feel

00:16:20.400 about trans issues.

00:16:21.500 Fair enough.

00:16:21.920 Yeah.

00:16:22.440 Well, I hope

00:16:23.260 that that doesn't transpire

00:16:24.880 because I don't think

00:16:25.520 that's what,

00:16:26.340 I don't think that's

00:16:27.100 the majority position

00:16:28.060 from speaking to people.

00:16:28.500 I don't think the republic,

00:16:29.580 I think the people

00:16:30.760 that elect republicans

00:16:32.380 into power,

00:16:33.680 I think at their core,

00:16:35.580 they are okay

00:16:36.340 with adults

00:16:36.980 making their own choices.

00:16:38.940 I think that

00:16:39.980 where it gets really thorny

00:16:41.340 is the elected republicans

00:16:44.020 have learned

00:16:45.720 that there is power

00:16:46.720 in going after us

00:16:48.080 and I'm scared

00:16:48.960 about where that's

00:16:49.680 going to go

00:16:50.040 for the next four years.

00:16:51.140 I understand.

00:16:51.600 I really hope

00:16:52.380 that they listen to that

00:16:53.780 and act accordingly

00:16:54.700 because I think

00:16:55.300 that's an important distinction.

00:16:56.620 But just to explore this more,

00:16:59.880 what is so key to that

00:17:01.600 is to have a new class

00:17:03.780 of trans leaders

00:17:04.940 that are not trying

00:17:06.720 to defend

00:17:07.600 the maximalist position.

00:17:09.200 Yes.

00:17:09.480 because the way

00:17:10.860 we've talked about children

00:17:11.900 is reckless.

00:17:13.540 Yes.

00:17:14.120 It is beyond reckless.

00:17:16.160 The way that we are,

00:17:18.360 you know,

00:17:19.060 people that have done

00:17:21.920 no real work

00:17:22.760 with transition

00:17:23.440 and are not

00:17:24.560 medically transitioning

00:17:25.760 are asking to go

00:17:27.800 into women's locker rooms

00:17:29.320 with their penis intact

00:17:30.740 and show that to women.

00:17:32.220 That is crazy.

00:17:33.440 And you're not seeing

00:17:35.460 our class of trans leaders

00:17:37.060 denounce that.

00:17:38.180 So until there are saner hands

00:17:40.760 driving the ship,

00:17:42.600 the Republicans will

00:17:43.680 go after people like me.

00:17:45.520 The problem is, Brianna,

00:17:46.980 and I agree with everything

00:17:47.960 you say,

00:17:48.780 Yes.

00:17:49.260 is the left,

00:17:52.360 more broadly,

00:17:53.580 is it's a purity cult

00:17:55.700 in a way.

00:17:56.180 Yes.

00:17:56.340 In that the moment

00:17:57.620 you go,

00:17:58.160 well,

00:17:59.100 I get what you're saying

00:18:00.020 about this,

00:18:00.720 but actually have you

00:18:01.460 thought about why?

00:18:02.480 And I disagree with X

00:18:03.740 because of A, B, C, D, and E.

00:18:05.880 That's the moment

00:18:06.520 they go,

00:18:07.240 there's a door transformed.

00:18:08.700 Gotcha.

00:18:09.520 Do you think

00:18:09.960 I haven't experienced this?

00:18:11.480 Yes.

00:18:11.800 Yes.

00:18:11.940 I know,

00:18:12.560 but what I'm saying is

00:18:14.420 you can't win,

00:18:18.180 get better,

00:18:19.320 have better ideas.

00:18:20.300 I know.

00:18:21.740 And I don't know

00:18:23.500 where you go from here.

00:18:24.800 I feel like I'm crazy

00:18:26.240 because there's so few people

00:18:27.940 on the left

00:18:28.460 willing to do this.

00:18:29.740 It is just maddening.

00:18:31.640 And do you know

00:18:32.460 how many friends I lost

00:18:33.620 after I came on your show

00:18:34.760 last time?

00:18:36.340 That's all we can do

00:18:37.380 for you.

00:18:39.400 Come on the show.

00:18:40.820 Yeah.

00:18:41.240 You'll lose friends.

00:18:42.280 I had people

00:18:43.120 like chewing me out

00:18:44.260 over text message

00:18:45.260 for not pushing back

00:18:46.440 on certain things with you.

00:18:47.840 And I'm trying to tell them

00:18:49.140 it's like,

00:18:49.520 I wanted to show up

00:18:50.860 and have a conversation.

00:18:52.260 I don't think it's helpful

00:18:53.200 to be combative.

00:18:54.380 I just,

00:18:54.880 I don't know.

00:18:55.620 You're welcome to be combative.

00:18:56.920 I really want you

00:18:57.940 to put the case

00:18:58.700 because it's always,

00:19:00.320 the most interesting thing

00:19:01.340 is finding out

00:19:02.160 where your picture

00:19:02.880 of the world is wrong.

00:19:03.880 Sure.

00:19:04.120 That's what I find

00:19:04.880 most exciting

00:19:05.560 because that's how

00:19:06.280 you get better.

00:19:07.520 Right.

00:19:07.680 This is one of the reasons

00:19:08.520 I always thought of myself

00:19:09.960 as being on the left

00:19:10.940 because when I was on the left

00:19:12.360 it was all about

00:19:13.100 science and facts

00:19:14.460 and reality.

00:19:15.080 That was what I thought

00:19:16.420 we were for.

00:19:17.420 Yes.

00:19:17.800 Right?

00:19:18.220 So you can,

00:19:18.720 you're welcome

00:19:19.280 to be as combative

00:19:20.060 as you want.

00:19:20.420 I don't mind being combative.

00:19:22.180 I'm saying that there is

00:19:23.920 an approach of walking in

00:19:26.080 and assuming bad faith

00:19:27.400 that does not make

00:19:28.880 the conversation go away.

00:19:29.420 No, you operate it

00:19:30.240 in good faith

00:19:30.740 and that's how

00:19:31.200 we try to be with you.

00:19:32.160 So coming back

00:19:32.860 to the other thing

00:19:33.700 you mentioned

00:19:34.080 and I'm sure there's more.

00:19:35.780 Do you really think

00:19:36.700 Donald Trump wants

00:19:37.520 to stop America

00:19:38.760 being the leader

00:19:39.480 on that

00:19:39.900 or do you think

00:19:40.920 he's using the threat

00:19:42.200 to get Europeans

00:19:43.700 to pay their way?

00:19:44.680 Do you really think

00:19:46.040 Donald Trump

00:19:46.660 is flying 4D chess

00:19:47.860 like that?

00:19:50.840 I actually do,

00:19:51.960 yeah.

00:19:52.200 Okay.

00:19:52.780 The reason is that

00:19:53.600 he's been talking

00:19:54.320 about Europeans

00:19:55.100 not paying their way

00:19:55.880 for a very long time

00:19:56.840 and he's like

00:19:57.360 you guys need to pay

00:19:59.100 for your own defense

00:19:59.860 and as a European

00:20:00.840 I totally agree.

00:20:02.560 Yes.

00:20:03.300 I want us to be strong

00:20:04.740 and capable

00:20:05.360 and then we can be

00:20:06.600 a powerful ally

00:20:07.440 to the United States

00:20:08.380 and then

00:20:09.120 we can be like

00:20:10.200 guys, guys,

00:20:10.740 maybe let's not

00:20:11.280 invade Iraq

00:20:11.840 and maybe the United States

00:20:12.900 will listen.

00:20:13.480 Do you not think

00:20:14.360 one of the first things

00:20:15.460 Trump is going to do

00:20:16.660 is to withdraw

00:20:18.160 our support for Ukraine

00:20:19.760 and to wind down

00:20:21.620 that, like,

00:20:22.680 I think there's a host

00:20:23.740 of stuff he's going to do.

00:20:25.180 Like, I think you and I

00:20:26.240 are probably more aligned

00:20:27.500 on his Israel policy.

00:20:29.100 I think he's going to do stuff

00:20:30.220 like this was my dilemma

00:20:31.540 in voting

00:20:32.180 that I did think

00:20:33.500 Trump was going to be

00:20:34.320 better on Israel

00:20:35.080 which is one of my

00:20:36.020 top issues

00:20:36.740 but I think when it comes

00:20:38.660 to anything involving

00:20:40.300 Russia or Putin

00:20:41.500 I don't have faith

00:20:43.280 that his primary

00:20:44.660 goal is the United States.

00:20:47.180 Well, we don't know

00:20:47.920 what will happen exactly

00:20:49.420 but I don't know

00:20:51.480 if you know this

00:20:52.120 when Russia invaded Ukraine

00:20:53.980 I was one of the people

00:20:55.160 who was incredibly

00:20:56.540 pro-Ukraine

00:20:57.720 and supporting Ukraine's

00:20:59.060 fight for its independence

00:21:00.040 and I am to this day.

00:21:01.500 Yes.

00:21:02.140 But what I said

00:21:03.140 from day one

00:21:03.800 literally day one

00:21:05.040 was Ukraine

00:21:06.420 was never going

00:21:07.040 to win this.

00:21:08.240 Right.

00:21:08.380 For Ukraine

00:21:09.440 a win

00:21:10.160 is where Ukraine

00:21:11.880 trades land

00:21:13.320 for permanent security.

00:21:15.700 Yes.

00:21:16.240 That I believe

00:21:17.100 is what Donald Trump

00:21:18.040 is going to attempt to do.

00:21:19.240 Sure.

00:21:20.040 So

00:21:20.360 this is a problem

00:21:22.500 and forgive me

00:21:23.160 for framing it like this

00:21:24.240 but it is true.

00:21:25.380 Yes.

00:21:25.840 The left made Ukraine

00:21:27.220 an LGBTQ style issue.

00:21:30.380 Right.

00:21:31.200 You put up a flag

00:21:32.460 and you go

00:21:33.580 you know

00:21:34.080 we are for

00:21:34.960 we are for Ukrainian rights.

00:21:36.880 Yes.

00:21:37.480 But that was never

00:21:38.220 on the table.

00:21:39.480 Yes.

00:21:39.880 What was on the table

00:21:40.960 is for Ukraine

00:21:41.860 to make sure

00:21:42.980 that this invasion

00:21:44.080 could never be repeated

00:21:45.760 because this had already

00:21:46.920 happened in 2014.

00:21:48.360 Right.

00:21:48.920 And the reason

00:21:49.520 that Ukraine fought

00:21:50.780 and the reason

00:21:51.700 men died

00:21:52.760 and the reason

00:21:53.700 that they went to war

00:21:54.820 was to ensure

00:21:55.920 that their country

00:21:56.600 could exist.

00:21:57.520 Yes.

00:21:57.820 Right.

00:21:58.380 The way that will happen

00:21:59.580 ultimately in the end

00:22:01.000 is by having

00:22:02.060 some kind of

00:22:02.660 peacekeeping force

00:22:04.160 or by having

00:22:05.000 a demilitarized zone

00:22:06.180 or by having

00:22:07.180 NATO membership

00:22:07.900 eventually.

00:22:08.760 Yes.

00:22:09.100 And what I'm hearing now

00:22:10.620 is that is what

00:22:11.340 they're working towards.

00:22:12.300 Sure.

00:22:12.480 So it's not about

00:22:13.120 abandoning Ukraine

00:22:14.380 it's about recognizing

00:22:15.460 the reality.

00:22:16.480 Yes.

00:22:16.840 And I have friends

00:22:17.560 in Ukraine

00:22:18.020 who are very pro-Ukraine

00:22:19.380 obviously

00:22:19.820 who are like

00:22:20.900 Constantine

00:22:21.620 you need to tell people

00:22:22.580 in the West

00:22:23.120 like we can't end

00:22:24.840 this war anymore

00:22:25.520 because the Russians

00:22:26.480 hate us

00:22:27.440 we hate the Russians

00:22:28.440 someone needs to step in

00:22:30.020 and help us end it.

00:22:31.880 So that's how I see it.

00:22:34.220 Sure.

00:22:34.720 And maybe you don't.

00:22:35.620 No I think that's fair

00:22:37.400 like if you look at

00:22:38.540 the United States

00:22:40.060 withdrawal from Afghanistan

00:22:41.440 how long did we just

00:22:43.080 kick that can down the road?

00:22:44.720 It was horrible.

00:22:45.680 Like I did not

00:22:46.420 like seeing the Taliban

00:22:47.680 you know

00:22:48.320 what they did to women there

00:22:49.580 but we

00:22:50.200 kind of got caught

00:22:51.520 into this forever war.

00:22:52.820 So I hear what you're saying.

00:22:54.540 I think there is

00:22:55.600 a seed of doubt

00:22:56.720 reasonable people

00:22:57.880 can have

00:22:58.640 about where

00:22:59.400 Donald Trump's

00:23:00.260 loyalties lie.

00:23:01.660 He does seem

00:23:02.900 to have an affinity

00:23:04.120 with Putin

00:23:05.180 and other dictators

00:23:06.720 around the world

00:23:07.580 that gives me

00:23:08.420 a lot of pause.

00:23:10.280 So you know

00:23:11.020 I also think

00:23:11.780 it is

00:23:12.200 it really concerned me.

00:23:14.660 Rex Tillerson

00:23:15.480 who I thought

00:23:16.680 like he would not

00:23:17.820 have been the

00:23:18.240 Secretary of State

00:23:18.980 I would have wanted

00:23:19.820 but you cannot argue

00:23:21.300 that man is not qualified.

00:23:23.040 And the way

00:23:23.680 he came to a conclusion

00:23:24.980 the way it came

00:23:25.680 to foreign policy

00:23:26.860 he could not work

00:23:28.380 with Donald Trump.

00:23:30.020 I just

00:23:30.440 I don't have a lot of faith

00:23:31.960 that on the world stage

00:23:33.140 this is the leader

00:23:34.020 that we need

00:23:34.580 in this moment.

00:23:35.420 Okay.

00:23:35.760 And what are some

00:23:36.540 of the other reasons

00:23:37.260 that you're not happy

00:23:38.640 about his election?

00:23:39.820 With Trump?

00:23:40.560 Yeah.

00:23:41.780 A really big one

00:23:43.000 is inflation.

00:23:44.380 You know

00:23:44.600 I think that

00:23:45.600 both parties

00:23:47.000 are responsible

00:23:47.640 for this

00:23:48.140 to a certain degree

00:23:48.980 but the amount

00:23:49.820 of debt

00:23:50.420 the United States

00:23:51.180 has right now

00:23:52.060 is just simply

00:23:53.020 unprecedented.

00:23:54.580 And I think

00:23:55.560 the stability

00:23:56.280 of our currency

00:23:57.200 if the Republicans

00:23:58.640 get into power

00:23:59.800 and do another

00:24:01.060 big tax giveaway

00:24:01.980 for the rich

00:24:02.720 and put it

00:24:03.700 on the credit card

00:24:04.580 I genuinely

00:24:06.220 worry about

00:24:06.920 the stability

00:24:07.480 of our currency.

00:24:08.920 I think anyone does

00:24:10.360 but I suppose

00:24:11.560 given the binary choice

00:24:12.740 of Kamala Harris

00:24:13.500 of Donald Trump

00:24:14.280 was Kamala Harris

00:24:16.760 likely to reduce

00:24:18.120 the level of debt?

00:24:19.240 Historically

00:24:19.720 Democrats have been

00:24:20.520 the ones to pay down

00:24:21.500 the debt

00:24:21.940 that Republicans

00:24:22.800 like build up.

00:24:24.040 That's just simply true.

00:24:26.140 That's interesting.

00:24:27.040 Well we'll see

00:24:27.500 what happens.

00:24:28.160 Yeah.

00:24:28.820 You know

00:24:29.120 Brianna

00:24:30.200 I was at

00:24:31.660 the Trump rally

00:24:33.180 which Joe Biden

00:24:34.720 called me

00:24:35.220 personally garbage

00:24:36.000 so thank you

00:24:36.620 for that.

00:24:37.380 The way

00:24:37.720 Madison Square Garden

00:24:39.060 yeah

00:24:39.260 and I was watching

00:24:41.040 Tulsi Gabbard

00:24:42.040 come to the stage

00:24:43.120 RFK Jr

00:24:45.080 Elon Musk

00:24:47.060 former donor

00:24:47.840 to the Democrat Party

00:24:49.100 and I was thinking

00:24:50.980 Was RFK there?

00:24:52.380 Yeah.

00:24:53.120 Oh I must have missed

00:24:53.820 I must have gone

00:24:54.460 to the toilet.

00:24:55.240 Sorry RFK.

00:24:56.380 Yeah.

00:24:56.940 RFK was there

00:24:57.800 and I was thinking

00:24:58.520 to myself

00:24:59.180 this is very interesting

00:25:02.480 because this isn't

00:25:03.540 a traditional

00:25:04.420 Republican Party

00:25:05.820 which I'm seeing now.

00:25:07.240 This is something else

00:25:08.240 entirely

00:25:08.760 but it shows

00:25:10.460 the failure

00:25:10.980 of the Democrat Party

00:25:12.240 the fact that you have

00:25:13.900 Tulsi

00:25:14.940 and RFK there.

00:25:16.740 Sure.

00:25:17.580 And Elon.

00:25:18.400 And Elon.

00:25:18.960 And you go to

00:25:20.080 so

00:25:21.380 I guess my question

00:25:23.260 is

00:25:23.840 what is this

00:25:25.100 new Republican Party

00:25:26.700 that we're seeing

00:25:27.580 and

00:25:29.000 how

00:25:30.040 does

00:25:30.880 the Democrat Party

00:25:32.160 try and take back

00:25:33.680 the center?

00:25:34.920 So let me just

00:25:35.700 challenge that

00:25:36.380 for a second

00:25:37.040 because

00:25:37.560 I perceive you

00:25:39.140 I know

00:25:39.460 your critics

00:25:40.160 are not going

00:25:40.760 to agree with me

00:25:41.440 I see y'all

00:25:42.080 as reasonably

00:25:42.780 in the middle

00:25:43.640 willing to

00:25:45.360 explore different ideas

00:25:46.760 I genuinely do.

00:25:48.700 Do you personally

00:25:49.740 find it's rewarding

00:25:51.080 to be in the middle

00:25:52.140 and to give

00:25:53.080 a fair shake

00:25:53.900 like you take it

00:25:54.920 from everyone

00:25:55.700 right?

00:25:56.780 I have certainly

00:25:58.100 experienced this

00:25:59.100 like look at trans stuff

00:26:00.320 I get it from

00:26:01.060 the trans extremists

00:26:02.200 and I get it from

00:26:03.000 TERFs now

00:26:03.560 all day

00:26:04.340 every day

00:26:05.140 everyone is mad at me.

00:26:06.860 So when you're

00:26:07.740 talking about Tulsi Gabbard

00:26:09.140 what I have felt

00:26:10.420 is I've kind of

00:26:11.760 come out as a

00:26:12.780 critic of the

00:26:13.480 Democratic Party

00:26:14.420 and the way we're

00:26:15.040 doing business

00:26:15.740 there's every

00:26:17.160 incentive

00:26:17.680 for me

00:26:18.260 to leap

00:26:19.720 to the other

00:26:20.460 side

00:26:21.100 and then to

00:26:21.900 just become

00:26:22.580 someone who's

00:26:23.140 advocating for

00:26:23.900 the Republican

00:26:24.420 Party

00:26:24.920 I would

00:26:25.440 there would be

00:26:25.860 tons of

00:26:26.540 money and media

00:26:28.300 and personal

00:26:29.220 power in that

00:26:29.960 for me

00:26:30.360 it's not who I am

00:26:32.000 and it's not

00:26:32.540 what I want to do

00:26:33.500 so I can't

00:26:35.300 I don't know

00:26:35.900 Tulsi Gabbard

00:26:36.640 enough to say

00:26:37.560 if it's

00:26:38.640 like good faith

00:26:40.360 or bad faith

00:26:41.200 but I think

00:26:41.880 the incentives

00:26:42.560 are there

00:26:43.280 for a certain

00:26:43.880 number of

00:26:44.340 Democrats

00:26:44.700 that cannot

00:26:45.540 stand with

00:26:46.140 this party

00:26:46.640 to move

00:26:47.280 to the other

00:26:47.780 side

00:26:48.180 but

00:26:48.940 I'm imagining

00:26:50.060 what Tulsi

00:26:50.760 would say

00:26:51.280 is I am

00:26:52.100 never going

00:26:52.820 to be allowed

00:26:53.600 to implement

00:26:54.420 the policies

00:26:55.220 that I want

00:26:56.000 if I remain

00:26:57.200 within the

00:26:58.200 Democrat Party

00:26:59.180 fair

00:26:59.460 so my only

00:27:01.180 choice

00:27:01.740 if I want

00:27:02.640 to implement

00:27:03.080 my policies

00:27:03.900 is to go

00:27:04.740 to the

00:27:05.760 Republican Party

00:27:06.780 and then I've

00:27:08.020 got more chance

00:27:08.920 yeah

00:27:09.200 it's a fair

00:27:10.580 criticism

00:27:11.140 I mean

00:27:11.640 do you think

00:27:12.100 I haven't thought

00:27:12.680 about this

00:27:13.120 for the last

00:27:13.660 10 years

00:27:14.380 is it worth

00:27:15.640 trying to

00:27:16.200 save the

00:27:16.640 Democratic Party

00:27:17.480 in this form

00:27:18.360 can it be

00:27:19.060 done

00:27:19.320 if I had

00:27:21.700 to guess

00:27:22.140 like you

00:27:23.460 said

00:27:23.720 not in the

00:27:24.400 next 10

00:27:24.840 years

00:27:25.120 not in the

00:27:25.740 next 20

00:27:26.300 that's

00:27:27.400 sorry

00:27:27.800 go ahead

00:27:28.040 no

00:27:28.360 because I

00:27:28.780 was going

00:27:29.100 to

00:27:29.200 because

00:27:29.640 that is

00:27:30.640 incredibly

00:27:31.340 damning

00:27:31.840 because what

00:27:32.480 you're actually

00:27:33.160 saying Brianna

00:27:33.860 and let's be

00:27:34.380 honest about

00:27:34.920 this

00:27:35.220 the Democrat Party

00:27:36.580 is not fit

00:27:37.360 for purpose

00:27:38.020 in its

00:27:39.940 current

00:27:40.360 incarnation

00:27:41.380 it's not able

00:27:42.540 to win elections

00:27:43.340 so I can't

00:27:44.660 disagree with you

00:27:45.660 so what is

00:27:47.300 the point

00:27:48.040 of remaining

00:27:48.780 within a party

00:27:49.800 if it

00:27:51.380 doesn't want

00:27:52.440 to change

00:27:53.320 if it's not

00:27:54.640 interesting

00:27:55.200 in appealing

00:27:55.980 to its

00:27:56.640 core voters

00:27:57.880 its former

00:27:58.580 core voters

00:27:59.360 what

00:28:00.600 I don't

00:28:01.800 understand

00:28:02.480 what people

00:28:03.920 are meant

00:28:04.320 to do

00:28:04.840 they're just

00:28:05.280 going to remain

00:28:05.900 within it

00:28:06.440 because that's

00:28:07.500 what you've

00:28:07.860 always done

00:28:08.460 that way

00:28:09.380 madness lies

00:28:10.200 surely

00:28:10.600 well you know

00:28:12.680 I do like to

00:28:13.900 pick battles

00:28:14.640 that I can't

00:28:15.300 win

00:28:15.540 so we'll

00:28:17.280 just have to

00:28:17.860 see what

00:28:18.180 happens

00:28:18.720 yeah because

00:28:19.500 and I'm not

00:28:20.160 trying to

00:28:21.280 be

00:28:21.640 you know

00:28:23.060 I just

00:28:23.820 I am

00:28:25.620 upset

00:28:26.080 because

00:28:26.540 it's so

00:28:27.680 important

00:28:28.460 that this

00:28:29.740 country

00:28:30.260 has a left

00:28:31.460 that is sane

00:28:32.920 of course

00:28:33.580 and is going

00:28:34.100 to challenge

00:28:34.720 the right

00:28:35.440 because people

00:28:36.000 go we're

00:28:36.420 right wing

00:28:36.900 but what

00:28:37.420 both

00:28:37.800 Constantine

00:28:38.240 and I

00:28:38.520 have talked

00:28:38.800 about many

00:28:39.280 times

00:28:39.660 is that

00:28:40.300 if you

00:28:40.620 have an

00:28:41.000 unchallenged

00:28:41.780 right who

00:28:42.340 are going

00:28:42.560 to sweep

00:28:43.140 through the

00:28:43.580 nation

00:28:43.920 they are

00:28:44.900 going to

00:28:45.140 do the

00:28:45.600 same thing

00:28:46.340 that the

00:28:46.960 left did

00:28:47.480 when they

00:28:47.780 took over

00:28:48.240 institutions

00:28:49.140 and then

00:28:49.900 there's

00:28:50.740 going to

00:28:51.260 be cancellations

00:28:52.180 well Jesus

00:28:53.040 said you

00:28:53.500 can't say

00:28:54.000 that so

00:28:54.440 shut your

00:28:54.860 mouth

00:28:55.160 I would

00:28:57.260 say this

00:28:57.840 that Francis

00:28:58.400 I think

00:28:59.180 there's an

00:28:59.660 appetite in

00:29:00.520 the Democratic

00:29:01.020 Party right

00:29:01.780 now in

00:29:02.300 this moment

00:29:02.840 to finally

00:29:03.560 kick out

00:29:04.040 the communists

00:29:04.820 I really

00:29:05.640 do I

00:29:06.180 think there's

00:29:06.580 an appetite

00:29:07.440 to get

00:29:08.420 rid of

00:29:09.040 these people

00:29:09.700 that have

00:29:10.160 the same

00:29:10.900 project as

00:29:11.700 theocratic

00:29:12.320 Islam

00:29:12.720 I think

00:29:13.740 there's an

00:29:14.240 I really

00:29:15.420 do think

00:29:15.900 there's an

00:29:16.420 attitude

00:29:16.820 where we're

00:29:17.880 going to be

00:29:18.480 willing to

00:29:18.860 get rid of

00:29:19.380 our worst

00:29:20.240 actors including

00:29:21.200 this French

00:29:21.800 trans stuff

00:29:22.500 no matter

00:29:22.880 what happens

00:29:23.900 the Democratic

00:29:24.940 Party is not

00:29:25.820 going to stand

00:29:26.340 as strongly

00:29:26.840 with that

00:29:27.360 as they

00:29:27.780 have so

00:29:28.620 maybe it's

00:29:30.080 a first

00:29:30.460 step

00:29:30.820 well it

00:29:31.580 will have

00:29:32.000 to be a

00:29:32.340 first step

00:29:32.720 I think

00:29:33.000 you know

00:29:33.320 the phrase

00:29:33.940 that I

00:29:34.320 think is

00:29:35.020 accurate is

00:29:35.660 personnel is

00:29:36.280 policy

00:29:36.820 what do you

00:29:37.960 mean by that

00:29:38.480 it means that

00:29:39.040 when you have

00:29:39.620 people who are

00:29:40.580 ideologically

00:29:41.380 possessed

00:29:41.800 yes

00:29:42.440 in your

00:29:43.000 party

00:29:43.440 you have to

00:29:45.300 get rid of

00:29:45.780 them

00:29:46.060 before you

00:29:46.900 can change

00:29:47.420 the direction

00:29:47.880 of the

00:29:48.160 party

00:29:48.460 because

00:29:48.840 if you

00:29:50.060 have a

00:29:50.880 party

00:29:51.320 or an

00:29:51.880 organization

00:29:52.380 or a

00:29:53.180 company

00:29:53.520 or a

00:29:53.920 business

00:29:54.200 or a

00:29:54.920 sports

00:29:55.280 team

00:29:55.600 that is

00:29:56.780 filled with

00:29:57.280 people who

00:29:57.740 have a

00:29:58.060 particular

00:29:58.400 vision

00:29:58.900 of how

00:29:59.540 that should

00:30:00.040 all be

00:30:00.400 operated

00:30:01.120 it's not

00:30:02.720 enough

00:30:03.160 for that

00:30:04.300 organization

00:30:05.120 to have a

00:30:05.600 bad tax year

00:30:06.680 or for the

00:30:08.500 team to lose

00:30:09.040 a few games

00:30:09.600 you have to

00:30:10.560 get rid of

00:30:11.020 the bad

00:30:11.300 apples

00:30:11.580 you just

00:30:12.120 do

00:30:12.360 otherwise

00:30:12.700 they're

00:30:13.020 going to

00:30:13.200 poison

00:30:13.420 everything

00:30:13.900 god

00:30:15.060 that's so

00:30:15.500 depressing

00:30:15.940 it really

00:30:18.160 is because

00:30:18.760 we have a

00:30:19.180 generation of

00:30:20.040 elected

00:30:21.000 democrats

00:30:21.520 that just

00:30:22.560 are these

00:30:23.360 messaged

00:30:24.380 focused

00:30:25.500 tested

00:30:25.920 creatures

00:30:26.520 that just

00:30:27.360 they're going

00:30:28.580 to say

00:30:28.980 what is

00:30:29.300 most politically

00:30:30.100 convenient

00:30:30.640 and there's

00:30:31.360 no substance

00:30:32.220 behind that

00:30:32.720 well fine

00:30:33.220 but the

00:30:34.000 most politically

00:30:34.780 convenient

00:30:35.360 thing to say

00:30:36.160 now is

00:30:36.860 we got it

00:30:37.900 wrong

00:30:38.220 we're going

00:30:40.120 to listen

00:30:40.520 we're not

00:30:41.080 saying that

00:30:41.640 here let me

00:30:42.340 challenge you

00:30:42.760 on this

00:30:43.020 sure

00:30:43.300 what do you

00:30:43.960 think is

00:30:44.300 most likely

00:30:44.880 to happen

00:30:45.480 once trump

00:30:46.840 takes power

00:30:47.420 in january

00:30:48.260 i think we're

00:30:49.440 going to have

00:30:49.900 resistance 2.0

00:30:51.600 and just in

00:30:52.340 case your

00:30:52.980 viewers are in

00:30:54.820 the uk

00:30:55.200 what happened

00:30:56.340 when donald trump

00:30:57.080 took power

00:30:57.660 in 2016

00:30:58.500 is everyone

00:30:59.840 myself included

00:31:00.840 dug our heels

00:31:02.440 in as hard

00:31:03.360 as we could

00:31:04.000 and said

00:31:05.800 we're just

00:31:06.480 going to

00:31:06.840 oppose

00:31:07.320 everything

00:31:07.960 and we

00:31:08.680 quadrupled

00:31:09.480 down on

00:31:10.180 identity

00:31:10.640 politics

00:31:11.300 women did

00:31:12.020 it

00:31:12.320 you know

00:31:13.420 various racial

00:31:14.480 minorities

00:31:15.000 did it

00:31:15.580 and it was

00:31:16.300 just the

00:31:16.700 republicans

00:31:17.380 and the

00:31:17.660 trump

00:31:17.920 they're

00:31:18.660 they're

00:31:18.880 all

00:31:19.040 satan

00:31:19.720 and i

00:31:21.320 think

00:31:21.720 so much

00:31:22.460 of that

00:31:22.940 playbook

00:31:23.720 in the

00:31:24.360 aftermath

00:31:24.780 of it

00:31:25.360 is what

00:31:26.200 led trump

00:31:27.000 exactly

00:31:27.620 back to

00:31:28.100 power

00:31:28.460 so that the

00:31:29.080 democrats

00:31:29.700 this time

00:31:30.400 around

00:31:30.740 can be

00:31:32.000 smarter

00:31:32.620 and say

00:31:33.620 what lessons

00:31:35.300 did we learn

00:31:36.140 from fighting

00:31:36.760 trump

00:31:37.060 the last time

00:31:37.840 is it going

00:31:38.880 to be a

00:31:39.520 scandal of the

00:31:40.320 week

00:31:40.620 every single

00:31:41.400 day of the

00:31:42.160 week

00:31:42.440 or are we

00:31:44.020 going to

00:31:44.580 try to

00:31:45.500 is there a

00:31:46.480 way we can

00:31:46.960 work with

00:31:47.540 the republicans

00:31:48.360 like where

00:31:49.620 can we

00:31:50.540 be in good

00:31:51.620 faith and

00:31:52.120 find some

00:31:52.720 things we

00:31:53.160 can work

00:31:53.540 on like

00:31:53.980 israel

00:31:54.540 and then

00:31:55.400 oppose them

00:31:56.260 when it's

00:31:56.740 like the

00:31:57.380 the mess

00:31:58.200 i expect to

00:31:58.780 happen with

00:31:59.140 the justice

00:31:59.600 department

00:32:00.180 i think

00:32:01.080 you're going

00:32:01.580 to see

00:32:02.180 the way the

00:32:03.620 party react

00:32:04.280 to this

00:32:04.700 i think it's

00:32:05.180 going to tell

00:32:05.600 you a lot

00:32:06.100 about where

00:32:06.600 we're going

00:32:06.920 to go

00:32:07.140 for the

00:32:07.380 next

00:32:07.520 well right

00:32:08.020 and so

00:32:08.540 on very

00:32:09.400 much on

00:32:09.820 that

00:32:10.180 let me

00:32:10.900 say something

00:32:11.440 to people

00:32:12.020 who are

00:32:12.320 watching this

00:32:12.800 because you

00:32:13.220 are here

00:32:13.520 not because

00:32:14.040 we're here

00:32:14.580 right

00:32:15.420 what the

00:32:21.620 left needs

00:32:22.420 right now

00:32:23.640 is humility

00:32:24.340 yeah

00:32:24.860 it needs to

00:32:25.760 say we

00:32:26.340 got this

00:32:26.700 wrong

00:32:26.980 that's

00:32:27.280 right

00:32:27.380 we made

00:32:27.700 mistakes

00:32:28.160 and now

00:32:28.720 we're going

00:32:29.140 to take

00:32:29.480 some time

00:32:30.320 that's right

00:32:30.880 quite a lot

00:32:31.300 of time

00:32:31.640 to shut

00:32:32.300 the fuck

00:32:32.600 up

00:32:32.860 yeah

00:32:33.160 and we're

00:32:33.660 going to

00:32:33.840 listen

00:32:34.080 yeah

00:32:34.440 and we're

00:32:34.880 going to

00:32:35.040 listen to

00:32:35.360 the american

00:32:35.680 people

00:32:36.140 and we're

00:32:36.720 going to

00:32:36.880 listen to

00:32:37.240 the people

00:32:37.640 who are

00:32:38.680 telling us

00:32:39.100 why we

00:32:39.900 got the

00:32:40.300 result that

00:32:40.720 we got

00:32:41.080 and by

00:32:42.340 the way

00:32:42.760 the reason

00:32:43.660 that they

00:32:43.940 really need

00:32:44.400 to do

00:32:44.620 this now

00:32:45.080 is we're

00:32:45.760 not in

00:32:46.040 2016

00:32:46.500 anymore

00:32:47.020 that's

00:32:47.360 right

00:32:47.560 in 2016

00:32:49.160 number one

00:32:50.640 donald trump

00:32:51.260 hadn't already

00:32:52.020 had a term

00:32:52.540 in power

00:32:52.980 number two

00:32:54.000 the media

00:32:54.520 were very

00:32:55.060 very powerful

00:32:55.840 they're not

00:32:56.640 anymore

00:32:56.980 yeah

00:32:57.360 this election

00:32:58.200 shows you

00:32:58.860 donald trump

00:32:59.760 could govern

00:33:00.340 for the next

00:33:00.800 four years

00:33:01.320 and never

00:33:02.300 pay attention

00:33:02.900 to anything

00:33:03.560 that the

00:33:04.000 new york times

00:33:04.640 or the

00:33:04.920 washington

00:33:05.260 post or the

00:33:06.080 la times

00:33:06.660 right

00:33:06.960 he could

00:33:07.780 do that

00:33:08.180 and he's

00:33:08.820 not running

00:33:09.220 for re-election

00:33:09.820 that's right

00:33:10.460 right

00:33:10.940 and he has

00:33:12.140 the house

00:33:12.680 the senate

00:33:13.380 and the

00:33:14.040 presidency

00:33:14.500 and the

00:33:15.120 supreme court

00:33:15.600 and the

00:33:16.660 supreme court

00:33:17.280 so if you

00:33:18.200 want to put

00:33:18.560 all of that

00:33:18.940 together

00:33:19.340 yeah

00:33:19.880 this is not

00:33:21.920 the time

00:33:22.620 for a resistance

00:33:23.560 2.0

00:33:24.380 because nobody

00:33:25.660 has to give

00:33:26.400 a shit anymore

00:33:27.140 that's right

00:33:27.620 nobody you know

00:33:29.480 i saw this in

00:33:30.380 i think in

00:33:30.900 seattle

00:33:31.340 they tried to

00:33:32.220 have another

00:33:32.660 one of these

00:33:33.280 protests

00:33:33.880 shut down

00:33:34.780 straight away

00:33:35.300 no one's

00:33:36.060 going to put

00:33:36.380 up with this

00:33:36.720 bullshit anymore

00:33:37.420 how about the

00:33:37.920 women's march

00:33:38.660 you know

00:33:39.080 they just

00:33:39.480 announced a

00:33:40.100 women's march

00:33:40.660 i was at

00:33:41.400 the first one

00:33:42.040 i was thrilled

00:33:42.760 to be there

00:33:43.300 do you think

00:33:44.120 i'm going to

00:33:44.700 that one

00:33:45.140 now that i

00:33:45.720 find out

00:33:46.140 you know

00:33:46.580 they're led

00:33:47.080 by anti-semites

00:33:48.500 of course i'm

00:33:49.240 not like

00:33:49.800 the the

00:33:51.160 the curtain

00:33:51.900 has been pulled

00:33:52.860 back on this

00:33:53.820 strategy of

00:33:54.540 identity politics

00:33:55.740 in the way

00:33:56.740 it's not about

00:33:58.080 dignity for

00:33:59.180 everyone

00:33:59.580 it's about

00:34:00.600 an inverted

00:34:01.400 hierarchy of

00:34:02.280 oppression

00:34:02.700 where every

00:34:03.380 group is

00:34:03.840 trying to

00:34:04.200 get more

00:34:05.920 power for

00:34:06.480 themselves

00:34:06.880 yeah

00:34:07.260 so this is

00:34:08.180 what i tweeted

00:34:08.940 i think the

00:34:09.380 night of the

00:34:09.760 election the

00:34:10.300 left needs a

00:34:11.140 resistance that's

00:34:12.060 right and the

00:34:12.680 resistance is you

00:34:13.940 resist identity

00:34:14.860 politics you

00:34:15.600 resist racial

00:34:16.420 divisiveness you

00:34:17.420 resist anti-american

00:34:19.080 yes you resist

00:34:20.340 hostility towards

00:34:21.780 the western project

00:34:22.740 and you embrace

00:34:24.080 freedom freedom of

00:34:25.480 expression growth

00:34:26.780 right enough of

00:34:27.960 this declinism you

00:34:29.040 know america's

00:34:29.720 days are behind all

00:34:30.880 of this crap right

00:34:31.720 yeah and if the

00:34:33.180 left did that

00:34:33.880 then it would be

00:34:35.280 interesting because

00:34:36.420 there are a lot of

00:34:37.440 people like you said

00:34:38.360 who voted for

00:34:39.120 donald trump who

00:34:40.500 didn't want to

00:34:41.240 yeah and all they

00:34:42.420 need is a candidate

00:34:43.760 who gives them

00:34:44.560 permission not to

00:34:45.480 have to do that

00:34:46.160 so i've thought about

00:34:47.800 this a lot like i've

00:34:49.960 thought a lot about

00:34:50.680 running for office

00:34:51.540 again and you know

00:34:52.580 the issues i've had

00:34:53.480 with my voice and

00:34:54.280 speaking the big

00:34:55.320 issue they're the

00:34:56.140 reason i'm not going

00:34:57.000 to do that just

00:34:57.860 because i could not

00:34:58.760 put in the same you

00:35:00.440 know 16 hour days

00:35:01.540 speaking that i did

00:35:02.700 a decade ago but

00:35:04.320 i i really thought

00:35:05.780 about this like if

00:35:06.840 we're going to turn

00:35:07.800 this party around

00:35:08.760 there were a ton of

00:35:10.240 women that ran in

00:35:11.840 2016 with the

00:35:13.540 intention of standing

00:35:14.420 up for donald trump

00:35:15.480 and that was a good

00:35:16.280 impulse what i think

00:35:18.040 we need in this

00:35:18.800 moment is an army of

00:35:21.000 normal people on the

00:35:22.900 left that are not

00:35:24.300 brain broken with this

00:35:25.820 identity politics stuff

00:35:27.420 or maybe they've

00:35:28.060 just changed their

00:35:28.940 mind on the efficacy

00:35:30.060 of it like i have

00:35:31.260 to really retake the

00:35:34.580 party and refocus it

00:35:36.700 on stuff that's going

00:35:37.540 to have salience with

00:35:38.520 the american people

00:35:39.420 like maybe the the

00:35:41.020 thing we're waiting

00:35:41.680 for is not the

00:35:42.380 democratic party maybe

00:35:43.400 it's us i i think

00:35:45.160 that's i think that's

00:35:46.160 right i think until

00:35:47.440 there are people and

00:35:49.260 a wide swathe of people

00:35:50.660 who are going to stand

00:35:51.520 up and stand up to

00:35:53.240 this nonsense it's

00:35:55.040 never going to change

00:35:55.880 because as somebody who

00:35:57.240 is half latin let me

00:35:58.880 tell you something when

00:35:59.940 you use the word woke

00:36:01.280 kamala harris uses the

00:36:02.700 word woke every

00:36:03.780 venezuelan and cuban

00:36:05.080 is watching that go

00:36:06.260 oh what you really

00:36:07.320 mean is el socialismo

00:36:08.760 yes and they're

00:36:10.100 thinking going i ain't

00:36:12.260 going near that i don't

00:36:13.860 want it yes and the

00:36:17.020 tragedy is trump

00:36:20.000 actually was quite a

00:36:22.220 weak candidate yes he

00:36:23.900 was weak yes and by

00:36:25.240 weak i mean flawed and

00:36:27.220 if you had somebody who

00:36:29.160 was competent who knew

00:36:31.280 what to do who was

00:36:32.240 politically savvy who

00:36:33.540 was smart who was

00:36:34.520 sharp who had good

00:36:35.700 ideas you would have

00:36:36.960 taken him to the

00:36:38.020 cleaner of course so why

00:36:41.300 didn't we do that we

00:36:42.360 didn't even have a

00:36:43.100 primary we spent four

00:36:44.400 years pretending joe

00:36:45.800 biden was not senile of

00:36:47.980 course he was like the

00:36:50.800 delusions we're willing to

00:36:52.320 tell ourselves it's truly

00:36:53.880 embarrassing yeah you know

00:36:56.220 what it reminds me of it

00:36:57.300 reminds me of rehab um you

00:36:59.320 know 24 years ago i went to

00:37:01.900 rehab for polyaddiction and

00:37:04.140 everyone there every single

00:37:05.660 addict has a lovely story

00:37:07.900 about why they're there and

00:37:09.920 everything is someone's

00:37:11.260 else's fault we had a doctor

00:37:13.000 there that was shooting

00:37:13.900 himself up with what is it

00:37:15.260 called propofol yeah michael

00:37:16.940 jackson drug wonderful

00:37:18.780 excuses about why he got to do

00:37:20.700 that until we can have this

00:37:22.500 come to jesus moment in the

00:37:24.500 party i i just don't see us

00:37:26.580 having a way forward and the

00:37:27.900 problem is with the ideology

00:37:29.380 that a lot of democrats

00:37:30.480 imbibed is that it is

00:37:33.200 victimhood yes and if you see

00:37:35.740 yourself as a victim like you

00:37:37.300 said you're never going to

00:37:38.580 take accountability that's

00:37:39.800 right and if you never take

00:37:40.780 accountability you're never

00:37:42.280 going to change oh my god

00:37:43.200 francis i have to say this

00:37:44.720 to you because this is what

00:37:46.060 drives me crazy about this

00:37:47.860 current trans movement you

00:37:49.600 now when i transitioned over

00:37:51.800 20 years ago the message was

00:37:54.620 your fate is in your own

00:37:56.320 hands right if you pass that's

00:37:58.960 up to you if you're employed

00:38:00.780 that's up to you you have to

00:38:02.600 learn these skills so you can

00:38:04.860 build a good life for yourself

00:38:06.280 that's the way it was for a

00:38:08.100 long time instead the trans

00:38:10.200 movement has taken on this

00:38:11.940 victimhood and i'm i'm opposed

00:38:14.940 to it not just because it's

00:38:16.820 politically cowardly but it is

00:38:19.420 taking an entire generation of

00:38:21.940 girls that are just like me and

00:38:24.140 telling them the thing that isn't

00:38:26.220 gonna the the thing that you're

00:38:28.080 waiting for to make your life

00:38:29.560 better is a communist utopia or

00:38:32.640 gender to be destroyed and all it's

00:38:35.580 a hundred percent in your hands

00:38:37.480 where's the part of the left that is

00:38:40.460 willing to take agency and to say

00:38:43.160 we can do this this fate is in our

00:38:45.600 hands let's go we are empowered to

00:38:48.060 build something better for

00:38:49.160 ourselves i think it is just

00:38:51.080 increasingly in short supply and i

00:38:53.480 think higher education has a huge

00:38:55.600 role to play in the way that grit has

00:38:57.780 just disappeared and i think it's

00:39:00.200 higher education and i also think that

00:39:02.820 you need people who didn't go to

00:39:05.380 harvard yes who didn't go to ivy's

00:39:07.360 god who run their own businesses

00:39:09.220 who grafted who are on the left but

00:39:12.800 are grounded in reality yes i think

00:39:17.080 part of the reason i'm different is

00:39:18.560 because i grew up in mississippi i

00:39:20.280 didn't grow up in some safe blue

00:39:21.760 state i've talked to these people i

00:39:23.380 grew up with them and you know i

00:39:25.820 can't tell you how many times i've

00:39:27.140 been to an event in massachusetts

00:39:28.920 and the harvard to democratic

00:39:31.980 politician pipeline is ultra real

00:39:35.220 you just move them through and

00:39:38.180 there are people that talk about

00:39:39.620 poverty like it's something they

00:39:41.060 read in a textbook and it shows with

00:39:43.280 their attitude yeah and it's

00:39:45.180 patronizing of course it is well one

00:39:48.200 of the things i thought was a really

00:39:49.400 this is might seem like a niche thing

00:39:51.240 to bring up for some people but i

00:39:52.580 thought

00:39:52.920 harris's choice of vp was very telling

00:39:56.960 yes because josh shapiro who's he's

00:40:00.400 pennsylvania yes is he governor or is

00:40:03.220 he yeah he's the governor of

00:40:05.120 pennsylvania right um i listened to

00:40:08.000 one podcast that he did yes and i

00:40:10.200 was like holy shit i have never heard

00:40:12.620 a democrat talk like this since like

00:40:14.440 20 years ago because he was like the

00:40:16.720 problem with donald trump is he's

00:40:18.280 shit-talking america we need a

00:40:20.300 stronger man we need business we need

00:40:21.840 this when i was like whoa where did

00:40:23.480 this guy come from and she didn't pick

00:40:26.940 him nope because he's pro-israel yes

00:40:29.240 is that basically that's how i see it

00:40:32.240 i mean i think it was multifactorial i

00:40:34.460 do think waltz had some really folksy

00:40:37.440 like midwestern charm but i 100% agree

00:40:41.200 with your assessment i think she was so

00:40:42.960 focused on winning the arab vote in

00:40:45.460 michigan that she left one of the best

00:40:48.500 politicians i've seen in my lifetime on

00:40:50.380 the table and from pennsylvania too but

00:40:52.580 what i'm really talking about is that

00:40:54.500 this is a very crude analysis but i do

00:40:58.080 think there's some truth to it the

00:40:59.700 democrat party has become the party of

00:41:02.160 femininity to some extent and it lacks

00:41:05.700 that masculine strength element that

00:41:08.340 appeals to a lot of americans it just

00:41:10.100 does right and someone like him has that

00:41:13.700 yeah and the rejection of him seems to

00:41:16.500 me like a symbol of something which is

00:41:18.580 like we don't want this kind of energy you

00:41:20.580 know do you not think waltz has a kind of

00:41:22.980 dad energy about him no really no there's no

00:41:26.340 strength projection there okay that's why

00:41:28.800 the nickname tampon tim stock yeah because

00:41:31.920 you can make up whatever nickname you want

00:41:33.700 about people but it's not going to work

00:41:35.400 yeah until unless there's some kind of

00:41:37.500 resonance with it do you see what i mean

00:41:38.880 that makes sense yeah uh and by the way

00:41:41.400 there's nothing wrong with femininity sure

00:41:42.960 just like there's nothing wrong with

00:41:44.200 masculinity it's that when they're taking

00:41:46.280 to excess and we're not paired with the

00:41:48.100 other and when they're not balanced that's

00:41:49.500 when you start to get into problems it's

00:41:50.920 hard to argue look at the gender gap between

00:41:53.180 the parties look at the way we're hemorrhaging

00:41:55.120 younger voters yeah i think it's so telling

00:41:57.960 like is so obviously a problem that the

00:42:01.620 democratic party has it's not that we don't

00:42:04.060 even have any young men like a message for

00:42:08.240 them is that we don't even have any people

00:42:10.780 like stars in our party that appeal to

00:42:12.800 younger men like that's how much we've

00:42:14.580 completely ignored that part of the

00:42:16.760 population well it's difficult to get those

00:42:19.480 people on board when your message not your

00:42:21.900 message but the message of the kind of the

00:42:23.900 people who've been the mouthpieces of the

00:42:25.900 democrat parties you if you're a man you're

00:42:27.620 a piece of shit yeah shut up shut up we

00:42:30.080 don't want to hear it's time for you to be

00:42:31.540 quiet your time is over the future is female

00:42:33.420 yeah and vote for us and vote for us right

00:42:36.100 like the future is not female and the future

00:42:38.200 is not male the future is men and women

00:42:40.140 working together that's how it is that's

00:42:42.680 it that's it you know um i've looked so

00:42:45.360 deeply into you know they've done a lot of

00:42:48.600 studies about why diversity training doesn't

00:42:51.280 work it's because if you try to invert the

00:42:53.980 hierarchy of oppression and put you know like

00:42:56.720 disabled black trans you know activist at the

00:43:00.500 top and white men at the bottom it doesn't

00:43:02.600 lead to a better workplace it leads to a worse

00:43:04.700 workplace if you're stressing messages of we

00:43:08.660 are a team and we all need to get some stuff

00:43:11.360 done together and treat each other with

00:43:13.540 respect that works very well that needs to be

00:43:17.040 the message of the democratic party can i

00:43:19.260 ask you a question sure did they think they

00:43:23.000 were going to win yes really so this is y'all

00:43:28.500 may not agree with this we built up a one of

00:43:32.120 the most impressive get out the vote

00:43:34.780 operations i've ever seen like we invested a

00:43:38.360 ton of money in that the relational organizing

00:43:40.740 the democrats have been doing it does work

00:43:43.140 and you know the the feeling on the ground

00:43:47.320 was that the polls were close that we had a

00:43:51.600 get out the vote operation on election day that

00:43:54.760 was going to push us over the top so i genuinely

00:43:58.200 did think we were going to win because of that

00:44:00.180 because you were going to mobilize the base

00:44:02.040 correct right this is something i didn't

00:44:04.180 appreciate until i started working in politics

00:44:06.440 politics is when you're you build up a universe of

00:44:10.880 potential voters and you literally put them in a

00:44:13.920 database and then like three four days before the

00:44:16.880 election it's just constantly about canvassing

00:44:19.720 them and calling them and making sure they get out

00:44:22.280 to vote and our operation for that this time

00:44:25.200 around was one of the most sophisticated i've ever

00:44:28.040 seen the problem was our messaging leading up to

00:44:32.500 that was so shitty that the number of people that we

00:44:37.380 could get to come out for us it was clearly less than we

00:44:40.480 thought you know this may sound a bit harsh

00:44:43.740 brianna but the fact that people within the democrat

00:44:46.420 party thought that they were going to win and

00:44:50.500 you look at the outcome speaks to me of delusion

00:44:54.380 really do you think so yeah the polls were objectively very

00:44:59.280 close they were but reality wasn't yeah reality

00:45:03.720 wasn't that's right and and by the way um you know

00:45:07.020 delusion may be too strong a word we all get things wrong

00:45:10.560 sure we all make mistakes we all misunderstand reality

00:45:13.760 that's why i was shocked when trump was elected in 2016

00:45:18.320 i couldn't believe it i still did stand up back then

00:45:20.740 i used to do jokes about donald trump i used to believe that he

00:45:24.320 the russia collusion and all of that i used to do jokes about that

00:45:27.340 sure one of my strongest jokes was like you know the say russians don't

00:45:31.220 understand democracy we got trump elected didn't we

00:45:33.560 right that was one of the and it did and it crushed

00:45:36.900 but it wasn't true yeah and

00:45:39.260 in 2016 when it happened and when brexit happened which i didn't vote for

00:45:44.780 my answer to that was to go my map of the world must be wrong

00:45:51.080 what is missing from my picture of the world so i went

00:45:54.440 and i watched every interview that steve bannon ever gave that's right in which

00:45:58.040 he explained how they won the election

00:46:00.700 yes and it made a lot more sense to me than half of america's racist and

00:46:05.520 transphobic

00:46:06.060 so there's an opportunity for people to do that and

00:46:11.800 as francis said you know for all the criticisms that we get for being on this

00:46:17.940 side or not on this side or whatever

00:46:19.620 i believe and have always believed that for a country to function you need two

00:46:24.960 sides that are both trying to make that country great sure

00:46:27.700 i agree and it's just like a marriage a marriage only works if both parties

00:46:32.600 want the marriage to work that's right and the country is like that and

00:46:37.220 you know your fellow americans who voted for trump or your fellow americans who

00:46:41.680 voted for harris you guys are gonna have to work together i'm just saying this is

00:46:45.620 like a bit of a marriage counselor here you you need to work together for this

00:46:50.820 country to be great i agree and you can't have half the country

00:46:53.720 you know demonized whichever way it's just not going to work i mean what i have

00:46:59.560 found is i've made a political mission to

00:47:02.700 reach out across the aisle and to try to develop

00:47:05.700 working relationships with republicans and i can tell you what i have found

00:47:11.160 is and this is hand to god and this is really damning of the democrats is my

00:47:16.320 friendships with republicans are so much easier and drama free

00:47:21.380 than my relationships with my own side because

00:47:24.880 there's just this understanding that we don't agree on everything

00:47:28.400 so i think like what i think we are so far past the point where it's time for

00:47:33.520 americans to start talking to one another again

00:47:36.300 you know reach out across the aisle i think that we agree on a lot more

00:47:40.800 things than we disagree on and i think it's exactly as you said

00:47:44.400 like we can't just dig our heels in again for the next four years resistance 2.0

00:47:49.780 and just oppose them on everything we've got to try to understand their voters

00:47:54.200 and we've got to develop a message that's going to appeal to those voters if

00:47:58.820 we're serious because and this is to put in a positive note

00:48:03.240 this is a real moment of opportunity yeah this is an opportunistic moment if the

00:48:09.400 democrat party are willing to seize it to go fresh blood new ideas trump's going

00:48:16.260 to be in power for four years let's be fair he pisses people off

00:48:20.480 and by the end of 20 of his term in 2020

00:48:25.380 people were tired 2028 it's oh no no sorry but by the end of his first term

00:48:32.580 people were really tired right they were tired of the outrage they were tired of

00:48:37.020 you know the constant tweeting the back and forth sure if you get someone in

00:48:42.360 who is sane who is moderate who can appeal to both sides who is pro-america

00:48:48.180 a lot can change what to say i i think the pro the distance in our opinions is i've worked with the

00:48:57.260 democratic party enough that my assessment of our elected officials to be able to do that

00:49:03.200 is i don't feel great about it wow so really yeah well you're on the inside so we're just we're just

00:49:09.200 two guys watching from the outside so if you're if that's what you're saying well look in that case

00:49:13.720 i'm afraid the you know if you're on the left you're gonna have to sit and watch you know a decade

00:49:19.520 or more of a uh unconstrained republican party doing the things that its voters elected it to

00:49:25.940 do and maybe look and if the left doesn't want to reform then maybe that's what america needs i

00:49:30.640 don't know it's a dark future well it is what it is if you if you if you i you know i i tweeted

00:49:38.480 what i thought was a thomas soul quote on the election night turns out it's an ayn rand quote which

00:49:43.100 is i saw you get your twitter note on yeah i that's my first community note ever did you but the

00:49:47.960 quote is brilliant which is why i assumed it was a soul quote it's an ayn rand quote which is you can

00:49:51.600 ignore reality yeah but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality and that's

00:49:55.760 where we are so that takes me to something i wanted to challenge you on today you put out a video

00:50:00.780 kind of finally admitting that you were a zionist i think or more sympathetic to israel after kind of

00:50:09.060 being on the fence for a long time it was nothing to do with being a zionist it's a very weird term

00:50:13.940 because the people who use it positively mean like completely a different thing to the people

00:50:18.900 who use it negatively sure so i wanted to ask how did you kind of avoid a position on this for so

00:50:25.080 long or you keep giving this thing in the public like oh i just haven't thought about that how did

00:50:30.260 you go so long without kind of examining oh i have a deeply controversial and old-fashioned view

00:50:34.720 that if you don't know about something you shouldn't comment on it sure i hold that same view

00:50:38.800 so why did you not someone who has a full-time job of a young family and very little spare time

00:50:44.920 has never been to israel has never really no i've never been to israel i've never been to gaza i've

00:50:50.460 never uh you know people assume that because my grandfather was an atheist jew in the soviet union

00:50:56.840 that means i know lots of things about israel i've actually talked to jewish people they're really

00:51:00.720 upset about that because they've been like oh constantine has this family background why isn't he very

00:51:05.920 well look for the purposes of like jokes and stand-up i'd always well you know being jewish

00:51:10.820 blah blah blah i'd make jokes about and francis you know makes lots of jokes about me being jewish and

00:51:15.620 stuff uh and i i do to some extent feel that that ethnic element you know has contributed to the way

00:51:23.400 that i think and you know lots of things but it's not the centerpiece of my identity i understand what

00:51:29.540 you're talking about because i felt the same way about this with trans stuff for so long it informed who i

00:51:34.000 was but it wasn't what i wanted to be defined by in fact i'm very resentful about the fact i've had to

00:51:40.380 step out publicly and do this because it's so far of course so i can identify with that

00:51:45.280 but when it comes to like israel and the right of israel to exist where do you kind of fall

00:51:51.020 oh i can tell you where my thinking was uh from the beginning so yeah it's it's an issue that i'm deeply

00:51:57.780 uninformed about sure or have been and probably am to some extent still when we first had a guest

00:52:03.920 on the show it would have been when was melanie phillips the first 2019 2019 so melanie phillips

00:52:09.560 who we had on recently again she came on and we talked about many things the gradual self-destruction

00:52:15.920 of the left ironically yes um and then we talked a bit about israel and truthfully as i said to her in

00:52:23.600 our recent interview i was not particularly persuaded and the reason is that from my very

00:52:29.200 basic reading i know a lot of people will will get upset about this the history of the creation of

00:52:34.640 the state of israel yes does not seem to me like a black and white issue it's not right so to the

00:52:42.440 extent that that is the case i found it difficult to have a particularly strong position on it because

00:52:48.900 i was like well this isn't a black and white issue i don't know a lot about it yeah i don't

00:52:52.540 necessarily support people coming from some other place to what was once their historic homeland

00:52:58.160 moving everyone out killing people as they did to some extent etc i don't think that's entirely what

00:53:03.800 happened but i understand the argument yeah i'm not saying that's the truth i'm saying that's a lot

00:53:08.480 of the perception that exists right so as an uninformed person yeah listening to many of those

00:53:12.700 arguments you can see why you might be hesitant or reluctant that makes sense to jump into it yeah and i

00:53:18.640 still wouldn't claim to know what the truth of the creation of the state of israel is or any of that

00:53:24.260 but my video was about the war that israel is prosecuting against hamas and now hezbollah

00:53:30.640 and that to me is a very clear issue yes because i've listened to the arguments

00:53:36.780 of the people who are against and pro and that's why we had bas and yusuf on the show and norman

00:53:41.780 finkelstein and i've discussed with things with people like safety nameless on his podcast

00:53:46.500 and just gone i'm dumb and uninformed explain to me what israel should have done on october 8th that's

00:53:54.540 right and none of them have an answer no no and so if as long as as long as that's the case and as

00:54:00.780 long as the other arguments that people are making about that issue don't make sense well then the

00:54:05.660 arguments don't make sense if someone comes along and makes a credible persuasive argument to me why

00:54:11.580 that video and my article is incorrect i will update my map of the world again fair enough i think you

00:54:18.820 know we've talked a lot about this um you know leftist inability to grapple with reality respectfully

00:54:25.300 with the um you know kind of islamist side i see a lot of these same thinking patterns you know you

00:54:31.060 will talk about events or things like look at the um you know the events that happened in instagram

00:54:36.160 last night as we're recording this if people don't know just jews being hunted down by muslims in the

00:54:42.300 street and brutally beaten and what happens this is playbook automatically comes out it's the jews fault

00:54:48.920 and it's because they were saying this before and that justifies it this is a pattern over and over

00:54:56.540 again where there's not accountability that's willing to be taken it's always on someone else

00:55:02.340 like this is what i've found since engaging post october 7th i'm not going to tell you there's not

00:55:08.140 crazy zionists i've dealt with tons right but i think there is a very in my estimation from what i've

00:55:15.740 seen i think there's a wide distance in the intellectual honesty that one side has versus the other

00:55:22.160 yeah i agree and um you know to a very significant extent i just think that people are being extremely

00:55:28.780 dishonest i have um i've no problem people having an intellectual position if they're consistent with

00:55:36.100 their own behavior right but the truth is america would never in a million years

00:55:41.920 accept being attacked by thousands of rampaging raping terrorists right without flattening whatever

00:55:50.360 country had perpetrated that atrocity so for people to sit in the comfort of america by their swimming

00:55:56.400 pool that's right and be like oh israel should be no no no no that's not what any sensible country would

00:56:02.180 do and by the way forgive me but i think that's one of the reasons that people did vote for donald trump

00:56:07.360 because they're like he no one's gonna fuck with us when he's president wait are you and also what

00:56:13.700 joe biden did with iran wait he just gave them money he emboldened them he empowered them and then

00:56:20.700 the iranians went you know we've got all this money you know what we're gonna do let's start a religious

00:56:25.700 war yeah francis it is one of the things uh educating myself on all of this post october 7th it is a mind

00:56:33.500 fuck if you'll forgive my language to discover that like mom mike pompeo it's 100 right on iran and

00:56:40.760 our the democrats position on this appeasement is dead wrong it's making the entire region far more

00:56:47.160 unsafe and you know to come back to your point do you think if canada had launched 8 000 missiles at

00:56:54.080 the united states this year alone that we would just sit here and take it of course not and israel

00:57:01.180 it's so disappointing to me that israel in the last three months has taken out the world's trash for it

00:57:09.280 you know they've taken out hamas they've hurt hezbollah they've gone after the irgc and you know

00:57:15.760 you would think biden would be like thank you israel job well done we've been trying to kill that guy

00:57:20.840 for 20 years behind the marine barracks bombing instead it's wagging our finger at him so hopefully

00:57:27.620 this is something trump will do well right and you know what this comes back to you know to go up a

00:57:32.560 level to the philosophical level of this it comes back to what the point i made to you about

00:57:36.700 femininity and masculinity sure the left and the west has become very very uncomfortable with the

00:57:42.360 use of force and strength yes and the right i know that people talk about the forever wars and to some

00:57:48.400 extent i think they're right in america although i don't support the isolationist position even remotely

00:57:52.320 um but it's what what donald trump i think understands is the idea that human beings have known

00:58:01.080 for millennia yes which is peace through strength that's right there is no other way to have peace

00:58:06.100 that's right when you make yourself weak you expose yourself yeah and people will come after you and

00:58:12.080 this is something that again forgive me for making a male female or whatever the masculine mindset sure is

00:58:19.080 more cognizant of because in men go through every day and you are actually a unique person to have this

00:58:25.700 discussion with perhaps because you have both experiences to some extent right men go through

00:58:30.740 their ordinary lives with a constant threat of physical violence yeah and women have a different

00:58:37.100 dimension to it i i appreciate it it's not like women aren't afraid of being physically assaulted of course

00:58:41.840 they are but it's much more normal for men yeah like if i go up to a guy in the street and slap

00:58:46.700 him in the face he's going to punch me back that's right if you're a woman a bit different right well

00:58:51.700 you may not do that in the first place yeah i got beaten up plenty when i was a child so i i understand

00:58:56.800 what you're talking about do you see what i mean i think that there is a delusion in the democratic

00:59:01.640 party that wars end with peace negotiations and that's not always the truth most wars end with

00:59:10.160 their enemy being killed and destroyed and vanquished which is what israel is doing with hamas

00:59:16.420 which i think is the right call so um i don't know i think it's i i think it is a time for moral

00:59:25.240 clarity and i think iran has destabilized the middle east i think there's been a cold war between

00:59:31.880 saudi arabia and iran that has just been terrible for everyone in the region not just israel and i think

00:59:38.740 the irgc is so weak in this moment which is why they've been unable to counter-attack israel that

00:59:44.960 if america and donald trump specifically can stand strong with israel and put pressure

00:59:52.680 on that utterly corrupt regime i think it is it is one of my biggest hopes for a trump presidency

01:00:00.080 you know when i see the current incarnation of the left they are completely stuck within the realm of

01:00:09.280 their ideology yes and as a result of that you are not in reality and if you do not live in reality

01:00:15.120 you are never going to find practical solutions to the to problems that's right and i see that with

01:00:21.420 the left with the way they talk about palestine and let me make it clear it's awful that children

01:00:25.980 are dying of course it's awful that civilians are dying that is war and that is desperately

01:00:30.680 unfortunate however palestine lebanon are glorified proxy wars because they are being funded by iran

01:00:39.200 that's right and this idea that you are going to appease iran and that they are going there somehow

01:00:43.640 is going to bring peace to the middle east is quite frankly demented it's crazy because let's say they

01:00:49.480 get their wish and israel no longer exists do you think that's going to bring peace to the middle east

01:00:54.140 or do you think the shias and the sunnis who were together in this holy war now are going to look at

01:00:59.280 each other and go actually i don't like you they're going to have an they're going to have a civil war

01:01:04.300 between each other and you're going to see an islamic civil war that's right in that region but they

01:01:08.660 don't want to address that because that is deeply unpleasant because what that means is that you have

01:01:14.300 to engage with reality and they don't want to do that because they want to be morally virtuous

01:01:19.340 within the paradigm of their ideology yeah i've thought about this a lot because you know like a lot of

01:01:26.440 people on the left the first time the trump administration happened you know the muslim ban

01:01:30.700 happened quote unquote muslim ban and it just naturally is someone that's on the left you're

01:01:36.120 like muslim ban discriminating against someone on the basis of religion this is a bad idea but so much

01:01:43.420 of what i've thought about post october 7th is if you look at the countries that this ban which came

01:01:49.500 from obama you know it's like these are countries with people that have some really dangerous ideology

01:01:57.000 there's a threat to american citizens at the very least we've got to aggressively vet the people we

01:02:05.840 are letting in to make sure they are not going to you know start their own amsterdam incident here in

01:02:12.460 this country so i'm i'm so much more i i think that october 7th lifted the illusions from a lot of

01:02:22.160 people's eyes across the right and the left and i think we're going to see those kinds of issues

01:02:26.940 grappled with more honestly this time and i think that it's important that you do that because

01:02:31.640 unless unless the left grapple with it more honestly and to put it quite frankly take out your trash

01:02:38.120 yeah also it's just a political loser do you think the american people stand with like our

01:02:46.060 universities being taken over by terrorist fans you know like it's it's embarrassing that we were not

01:02:52.800 able to denounce this stuff like standing with israel in my view is the most obvious moral call i've ever

01:02:59.360 seen in my life so that's how i feel well brianna i hope uh people listen uh to you within the party and i

01:03:06.140 think as i said you know we need a good left and we need a good right and i hope that that eventually

01:03:12.080 manifests whether it will immediately or not that's an entirely different question i hope we can turn

01:03:16.940 our party around and the next time i see you we're talking all about the problems in the republican

01:03:21.660 party because we fixed all of ours that would be amazing sounds good to me yeah sounds good to me

01:03:26.360 brianna i feel like we've talked about all the things that we should be talking about which is why we

01:03:30.240 can now head over to substack where our audience can ask you their questions amazing head on over there now

01:03:35.100 brianna i have long faulted the leadership of the dnc for not cultivating new younger democratic

01:03:42.120 leaders long term and promoting instead elders like biden and woke hires like kamala

01:03:47.220 i don't even know who they are is the dnc leadership beyond public influence and if not how

01:03:53.900 i wish we'd gotten into this um we can get into it now

01:03:57.540 you

01:04:04.540 you

01:04:06.540 you

01:04:08.540 you

TRIGGERnometry - November 13, 2024

Why We Lost - Brianna Wu

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