TRIGGERnometry - Why We’re Fatter Than Ever - Mike Israetel

00:00:00.000 for the first time in human history more people are dying of overeating than not having enough

00:00:06.540 food so why is it so hard you think in the modern world to actually be healthy food has become way

00:00:13.020 cheaper for the average person to buy and way tastier and way more convenient how is not

00:00:18.520 everyone obese when you look at things like the body positive movement big is beautiful you know

00:00:24.020 you can be beautiful at any size you're like i have a lot to say about that actually

00:00:29.440 the reason why people who become obese haven't reduced their obesity there are many many reasons

00:00:37.080 the vast majority of it is the giving a factor is just real

00:00:42.080 mike welcome to trigonometry thank you for having me guys i'm a huge fan of the show so this is like

00:00:49.460 very surreal and i typically don't get very nervous anymore i've been doing a few of these every now

00:00:53.220 and again but like i'm actually like palpably anxious yeah well if look if if i was in front

00:00:57.860 of two physical specimens like us i'd be intimidated as well i'm actually also aroused

00:01:01.760 well that's why we've got a table there that's right keep you keep you away from us well listen

00:01:07.640 man it's great to have you on the show you obviously talk about health and fitness and

00:01:10.500 something that's interesting especially in the modern world you know i think the stat just came

00:01:14.860 out that for the first time in human history more people are dying of overeating than not having

00:01:19.600 enough food so why is it so hard you think in the modern world to actually be healthy and be

00:01:25.020 a reasonable weight because you see those pictures of americans in the 1980s on the beach and now

00:01:30.040 two very different pictures right yes yes absolutely um i have a view on this that some people think is

00:01:37.460 contentious i think it's very data driven and i think i'm right an egotistical statement to start

00:01:43.240 off with um but all jokes aside i think it's really just only one core variable that describes all of this

00:01:50.200 and that is ratioed to income in terms of hours worked terms like you guys familiar with time

00:01:58.160 costs in economics like how many hours of work do i have to put in to afford a glass or a jacket or a

00:02:04.020 car and that's the best way to think of purchasing power because it takes care of all the inflation

00:02:08.920 money stuff just completely aside so the time cost for the average human especially in the modern

00:02:15.920 developed world where most of the obesity epidemic is the most serious um to be able to afford a

00:02:22.380 certain amount of calories has shrunk ton and so at the same time the convenience of the food has

00:02:31.040 exponentially accelerated and the taste quality of the food has accelerated like you fellas am i allowed

00:02:37.440 to swear in here not so much i'm allowed to say whatever you want tastes incredible when you go to

00:02:43.480 the store or to restaurants and the idea that food tastes incredible is something that everyone who's in

00:02:49.940 the food manufacturing business takes as almost like a prior that doesn't even get articulated

00:02:55.540 like if someone was like oh so you have this food you're making and it's healthy but it doesn't taste

00:03:00.140 good right they're gonna be like wait no hold on of course it tastes good with that's the core metric

00:03:05.180 because if food doesn't taste good people just don't eat it very often very conscientious health

00:03:10.320 conscious people will you know kale juice or whatever the hell it's really tough to force

00:03:14.720 that on most people my wife tries on me though go go a little spoon and everything uh so as we've 0.99

00:03:22.720 become so much wealthier as a society and especially the average especially lower middle income folks

00:03:29.020 and in in lower middle income countries for example mexico they used to be i didn't mean to look at you

00:03:34.340 you're venezuelan you know same part of the same thing same spanish speaking yeah yeah uh mexico

00:03:39.600 uh so well in america anyone who speaks spanish is mexican 100 yes yes on the demography it's not

00:03:48.180 like uh hispanic slash latino it's just mexican look around god damn it all right fine close enough 0.98

00:03:53.540 so mexico we used to think of back in the 90s it's like like a poorer country you know and then now

00:03:59.860 mexico actually the average person in mexico is wealthier than the average person in the united

00:04:05.540 states was in the 1960s like per purchasing power and so you think about like okay so mexico is not

00:04:11.280 a poor country anymore how is their obesity rate doing disastrous it's insanely high they are leaving

00:04:18.440 almost everyone behind why because their people can finally afford all the food they want food is

00:04:25.020 ubiquitously available and it is incredibly tasty super convenient like if you go to like a costco

00:04:32.040 or a sam's club do you guys have that sort of thing back in the in the kingdom

00:04:35.160 magical capitalism store and you get like a like a pre-made rotisserie chicken i mean it's cooked and

00:04:42.740 it's warm you simply just do this and for five dollars it's yours there is no equivalent of that in

00:04:48.320 history there's no metric by which we can even start to measure that sort of thing so once we

00:04:53.100 understand that food has become way cheaper for the average person to buy and way tastier and way

00:04:58.660 more convenient we look at obesity and we start to have to ask a different question how is not everyone

00:05:04.480 obese because if you get people enough calories and food it tastes good there's a crap load of

00:05:11.420 scientific data on this when something tastes delicious people just kind of keep eating it and

00:05:16.480 your idea of what full and full uh you know full or empty feels in your stomach kind of gets a little

00:05:21.460 hazy if i gave you a plate of fresh broccoli and i was like all right fellas dig in okay crunch crunch

00:05:27.240 crunch i'm done if i gave you some really good like potato chips or something you would be like

00:05:34.240 there's nothing else going on and the whole thing is done so when you do that to most foods fast foods

00:05:40.120 convenience foods um anything you can get at like a 7-eleven or anything like that and in general even

00:05:45.920 fine dining uh is more and more affordable for more people and it's getting super cheap all the time

00:05:51.200 people love to eat tasty food we've done a ton of analysis on okay are people less physically active

00:05:56.760 the answer is yes but not by nearly an amount of physical activity decrement that would explain this

00:06:02.240 much weight gain just people used to maybe run a marathon every day and then they stopped that's

00:06:07.100 actually not true cross-culturally and across societies physical activity levels are actually really

00:06:12.060 stable between people believe it or not the average american moves almost as much as the average

00:06:17.320 african like like goat herder when you talk about uh all of the metabolic functions required to keep the

00:06:24.800 body going the out part of the equation versus the in part it's really similar theirs is a little higher

00:06:30.300 not enough to explain why the american weighs 350 pounds or as i call one texan unit and why you know

00:06:37.700 folks in africa weigh substantially less and the the answer almost certainly the major part of the 0.53

00:06:42.940 answer i would say 80 or 90 percent is the ubiquitous availability of ultra cheap ultra delicious food

00:06:48.660 that's so interesting man it's a really interesting way of breaking you're basically saying when when

00:06:53.920 normal people have access to so much as much access to food as henry day we're all going to look

00:06:59.920 like henry day more more by a long shot yeah i mean think about like uber eats and grub hub

00:07:05.140 magic try to describe that to someone from 1900 yeah just like show them a video the video part's

00:07:12.040 going to be confusing to begin with because they're like what's the magic it's a magic portal to the

00:07:15.520 future and then just a just a regular person you know ordering on grub hub and then it shows up

00:07:20.580 they'll be like what's going on we see it kind of whatever you want just shows up to your door

00:07:26.120 any kind of food and you're like okay they're like so this person must be someone who is like

00:07:32.700 avant-garde like one of the leaders or something like this person it works a menial labor job

00:07:38.160 what so what do the wealthy eat like they kind of sell any different stuff but everyone kind of does

00:07:44.920 uber eats there's not like if you walk around you can't really tell who's richer or poor anymore much

00:07:49.520 you know because there's that new rich guy swag where you're trying to purposefully look poor

00:07:52.860 the whole world is kind of upside down reference to history so yes the henry the eighth thing is

00:07:58.080 100 accurate even more than that because you know like imagine how much thai food english kings of old

00:08:05.160 had none i suppose almost none um how do you resist the modern thai food it's like eight dollars for

00:08:12.960 like the greatest food you've ever had and it's just always more of them you just hit the uber eats

00:08:16.740 button again and half an hour later 16 worth more food comes in how do you fight that i have an

00:08:22.460 answer to how to fight it but it is a very very difficult thing how much of it as well is it's

00:08:27.960 yes cheap food tasty food but it's also unhealthy food as well is that part of the dynamic here or is

00:08:35.580 that exaggerated in your opinion exaggerated highly really very highly because i know sorry to interrupt

00:08:41.120 like we have a friend who's actually a guest former guest on the show dominic frisbee he's a comedian

00:08:44.760 and he he was never like texan unit size but he he was you know he was a bigger guy and he cut out

00:08:53.560 seed oils and suddenly he's super slim that's his answer right so a lot of people think there's like

00:08:59.140 a hack if you stop eating x then you're gonna do y but you don't think that's really as big a deal as

00:09:04.940 people make out uh the evidence shows that that's clearly not the case in randomized control trials um

00:09:11.160 seed oils do better than saturated fats and almost all health metrics they just do like most seed oils

00:09:17.480 are healthier for you than like butter and lard straight up um i don't like how that feels i don't

00:09:22.720 love the vibe but it's just what like if you look at all the data it's just what the aggregate of the

00:09:27.140 data shows that's fascinating that being the case there are some things that aren't super healthy

00:09:30.940 um various kinds of preservatives you know like the the 7-eleven rotating hot dog situation where you go

00:09:36.940 in there and it's just a grill that like how long has that been there like it doesn't matter it never

00:09:39.840 goes bad you're like the hell is it made of then that that stuff isn't great for you and it will 0.83

00:09:45.500 degrade your health markers a little bit but there's not any magical way in which that's

00:09:50.040 obesogenic in the sense that there's not any magical way in which unhealthy food makes you fatter than

00:09:54.920 healthy food the critical ingredient the critical metric for what makes you fatter or not is calories

00:10:02.160 right and if you can smash a lot of healthy calories in you're still gaining that weight which is 0.83

00:10:06.660 a big myth that like forgive me for getting racial rich ass white people have this thing where they're 0.60

00:10:11.620 like i'm such a good person i love nature i voted for all the right people and they go to whole foods 0.92

00:10:16.240 no offense whole foods is great but they like think okay i'm inside of a whole foods i don't have to

00:10:20.900 deal with the other muck out there these trump supporters or whatever didn't mean to look at you 0.90

00:10:24.640 how dare you um and they're like anything in the whole foods store because it's got all the right

00:10:31.340 labels right it's organic it's vegan it's free range the chickens like own a cooperative somehow

00:10:35.940 slaughter each other it's great right and you're like everything i put into my body here is going

00:10:40.640 to be good for me but then like i always tell the same story i used to buy these like mega size vegan

00:10:46.560 brownies like you know there's like a brownie and then there's like like hulk version of brownie and

00:10:51.580 there's like galactus brownie it was like that and the thing had like a thousand calories in it

00:10:56.780 but it was made of all the right stuff no seed oils it was like some kind of awesome healthy fats

00:11:01.700 plants only they tasted like like heroin if you could eat it and of course people are munching these

00:11:06.320 down and like stepping on the scale and they're like still heavy so the idea that if you just eat

00:11:11.620 healthy food you'll all of a sudden lose weight and get much healthier is illusory however if you eat

00:11:17.460 minimally processed foods that aren't like the tastiest thing you can jam into your mouth every

00:11:22.640 time you sit down to eat it's just only so many calories you can put in i put a plate of salmon

00:11:27.700 brown rice and broccoli in front of you what you're going to do order seconds you're going to do that

00:11:31.260 you're going to pick at it you're going to eat some you're going to be like i'm good i put a plate

00:11:34.300 of cheeseburgers from mcdonald's in front of you they're gone and all of a sudden it's like double the

00:11:39.580 calories you're taking in so it's not the fact that the food is healthy but minimally processed food that

00:11:44.000 tends to be healthier which is very good for the health part not just the weight part although the

00:11:48.320 weight's the most important part of health it's not the only thing the biggest power those foods 0.88

00:11:52.040 have for weight control is that you're just probably not going to overeat them i mean imagine seeing

00:11:57.100 someone in your office as an obesity doctor and they're like doc i can't lose weight they're like

00:12:00.580 what is it like fresh green apples man i just can't stop eating it just doesn't happen um hyper

00:12:06.920 palatable foods which often in order to be convenient they have to be shelf stable and that means they do

00:12:12.220 have some preservatives in there that aren't great for you but we're talking about single percentage

00:12:15.800 points compared to 90 percentage points for just eating more physical stuff that has calories in

00:12:21.200 and mike people talk a lot about the effect of sugar and sugar has become this kind of catch-all for

00:12:28.960 evil in the world of food and we've even got a term big sugar which sounds like you're like a larger

00:12:36.940 lady you know you like a bit of big sugar that's what she is in your phone you're scrolling 1.00

00:12:41.340 who's tonight's date big sugar i need more woman tonight it's 10 o'clock on a sunday evening time

00:12:46.200 for big sugar but how bad how bad is sugar for you and do we overstate it or do we in fact

00:12:55.000 underestimate it yes greatly overstated greatly profoundly um so you feel free to call her

00:13:01.500 tonight you're good hey baby good news you're not mad for my health um sugar has an ability

00:13:08.200 to ramp your calories up way beyond what you need and then you start gaining weight

00:13:12.940 for one reason only it's really tasty you put sugar into a lot of foods it makes them tastier people

00:13:19.500 like sweet things chemically molecularly there are many different kinds of sugar some of them digest

00:13:26.380 more rapidly some less rapidly some have certain very small differences in appetite regulation effects

00:13:33.100 but on the aggregate different kinds of sugars just don't matter much so if you had a diet that

00:13:38.100 had enough fiber enough protein enough vitamins uh minerals phytochemicals all that stuff really good

00:13:43.400 healthy food most of your food was healthy and then you had a band of like 400 extra calories that

00:13:49.520 came up to maintenance and if you ate 400 less you would lose weight you don't want to lose weight

00:13:53.300 you're already healthy if you fill that extra 400 with protein or with fat or with sugar or any kind

00:14:00.120 other kind of carbs it almost doesn't matter it doesn't matter for weight control at all and it

00:14:05.440 almost doesn't matter for any other health variable so when people are looking at drinks and it says you

00:14:10.400 know uh for example no sugar added like that's dope but how does that reflect the calorie number

00:14:16.520 because sometimes people say like natural sugars and they're like oh see natural sugar cane like

00:14:20.580 that is damn near the same sugar it has the same calories gives people that illusory thing so when people

00:14:26.160 are trying to make their diets healthier cutting out sugar as a way to reduce calories brilliant

00:14:31.460 because like there's a lot of extra sugar and stuff it really is it's because people like extra

00:14:36.160 sugar because it tastes good so if you can cut down the sugar without adding in something else for

00:14:40.580 calories you're winning if you just keep the calories the same you're like less sugar but now

00:14:44.880 there's more fat maybe there's more other carbohydrates that aren't exactly sugar uh you're just going

00:14:49.680 pretty much nowhere and it's the the grand illusion of like i'm doing well for myself except

00:14:53.400 nothing's happening whatsoever a friend of mine's father was one of the original guys i think this

00:14:58.580 was 20 odd years ago in the longevity space he was a doctor and i remember him saying to me i had a can

00:15:03.200 of diet coke and he said don't ever drink that because if you want to drink coke drink coke yeah you

00:15:08.480 know it's i'll go but sugar he was like it's better that you have natural sugar than you have all the

00:15:14.820 chemicals and everything artificial contained in that diet coke would you agree with that analysis i mean

00:15:19.780 like i don't want to disparage your friend's dad yeah um but he's wrong i had a really you guys are

00:15:25.200 british you do dark humor yes i was gonna it'd be funny if you were like my friend's dad in the

00:15:29.540 longevity space sadly no longer with us but um i would say that's actually like sort of the most

00:15:35.660 backwards wrong advice that you could give on that topic um artificial sweeteners as they're called

00:15:42.540 technically they're called non-nutritive sweeteners um almost all of them and the ones that used to be

00:15:49.120 sort of not so great for health are really kind of not in use anymore like um uh aspartame is still

00:15:54.700 around but kind of falling off sucralose is the new thing no it's not that new but it's actually uh

00:16:00.040 uh kind of more modern than the other ones modern non-nutritive sweeteners artificial sweeteners

00:16:06.640 have almost no effect on your health one way or another they're not good for your health they don't

00:16:13.380 really do anything but they're if you are trying to prove a point that they're bad for your health

00:16:17.880 and you're going solely off objective discussion of literature you're going absolutely nowhere the

00:16:23.980 other argument of saying they're neutral for health and you can have tons of them has like

00:16:28.560 hundreds of studies almost unanimous studies of empirical support if you're looking for something

00:16:34.580 more cut and dry in the nutritional literature than the statement non-nutritive sweeteners are

00:16:39.020 generally well tolerated by most people and have very few if any negative effects that statement might

00:16:43.860 not exist like it's that solid of a foundation so when people now on the other hand excess sugar that

00:16:50.440 boosts up calories like if you're drinking cokes all day some people don't even count that into their

00:16:55.540 food and right like each can is like 160 calories and that adds up um 500 extra calories per day you

00:17:03.980 gain roughly a pound of fat a week that's like three or four cans of soda if you just drink soda

00:17:09.880 and then you do nothing anything else to your diet except you switch to diet you can and many many

00:17:16.020 hundreds of thousands of people just all the time you can lose pounds and pounds of weight per month

00:17:21.020 for months on end radically improving your health and body composition so uh yeah i would say one of

00:17:29.080 the best pieces of advice i can give people listening to this is anytime you want soda go with diet i would

00:17:35.740 just say in most circumstances for normal folks just trying to figure this out not trying to become

00:17:39.960 experts regular sugar full sugar soda is just a do not consume item i would just be like no just put

00:17:46.280 it next to the drano you know every friday night you need to clear yourself up fine but uh diet soda is

00:17:52.260 like orders of magnitude healthier and safer for you long term than than regular full sugar soda it's just

00:17:58.480 not even close and i'm glad we're talking about safer in the long term because you know i don't think

00:18:05.540 we're honest enough actually about the effects that obesity has on the human body you know when

00:18:10.980 you look at things like the body positive movement big is beautiful you know you can be beautiful at

00:18:15.920 any size you're like i have a lot to say about that actually i don't want to derail the conversation

00:18:21.620 but that's a new intellectual sphere i've been entering for a while is the body image sphere and

00:18:28.200 how people see themselves and how body positivity comes into that i i don't want to say too much about

00:18:33.740 that but i can give a little bit of a glow i don't know if you guys want to talk about that 0.96

00:18:37.220 shit anything we have a whole list of anything to trigger fat people so yeah no you know what i mean 0.92

00:18:43.520 i look the the thing for us is i'm joking obviously but the thing as you know because you watch the show 0.98

00:18:49.080 we try and do is we try and just try and talk honestly about the things that people don't talk

00:18:54.180 honestly about because they're all afraid right and i think when it comes to obesity for the reasons

00:18:59.920 that you're talking about we've we've got to start actually challenging narratives that are false that

00:19:05.780 doesn't mean we have to be nasty to people or demean people but i think there has been a lot of lies

00:19:12.420 uh and i don't even know what they are where people are being told things to make them feel better

00:19:18.360 about doing things that make them feel worse in reality i have two lies i'd love to chat with you

00:19:24.200 let's do it lie number one is that obesity is either exaggerated as a cause for poor health

00:19:32.020 or some slightly less hinged people will say that it doesn't have anything to do with health

00:19:38.440 causatively it's just about as false as anything you could say obesity especially in longer term

00:19:44.700 several years plus and exponentially more bad for your health the longer you continue to be obese

00:19:50.840 and exponentially worse for your health the more obese you become obesity is insanely deleterious

00:19:57.080 to your body to your quality of life to your longevity even to your psychology as it interacts

00:20:02.880 with your physiology you literally feel worse if you're obese not just from psychological stuff

00:20:07.700 where people frown at you because you look bad or something though that does also happen just from

00:20:12.300 the physiological feedback mechanisms you feel worse you are more at risk for a variety of diseases

00:20:18.920 you heal less well from any kind of injuries or surgeries or anything like that being obese if

00:20:24.040 you had to tell someone like if i was in an elevator with you fine gentleman and i was like trying to

00:20:27.960 try to pitch you guys like i'd love to be on your show i want to talk about how bad obesity is you

00:20:31.680 know guys like what 20 seconds you guys i'm sure are quite wealthy you live on 110th floor or something

00:20:35.920 so we're riding down and you're like it's 20 seconds tell us what obesity is what's bad about obesity

00:20:40.380 physiologically it would be an intractable problem because the list is like hundreds of things long

00:20:44.980 almost any disease condition you can think of is radically made worse by having obesity

00:20:50.200 and it causes like at least 10 major disease conditions diabetes they have actually a thing

00:20:55.980 called metabolic syndrome which is five of those conditions wrapped up um poor blood lipids arterial

00:21:02.020 clogging i mean it's like if you're trying not to be around for a long time getting obese very

00:21:09.560 dependable way to do it so that's one big lie the idea is that like hey it's okay if you're obese

00:21:15.480 because the medical community's racist or sexist they never can get their kind of uh understanding

00:21:21.760 fat phobia that's right it's like fearing fat people either phobia part um so that's line number

00:21:27.020 one line number two is a little bit lower key but in some way even more insidious and it hits me on a

00:21:33.980 personal level and the lie is almost the entire summation of the body positivity movement and the

00:21:41.120 lie is this that you can be just as beautiful if you're morbidly obese as you can be if you're any

00:21:53.260 other shape or size maybe a more conventional shape or size i didn't mean to look at you though your body

00:21:57.840 is quite quite stunning it's a little distracting i'm just kind of so um here's the thing

00:22:05.860 to their credit to these folks who are in the body positivity movement kind of promulgators of that

00:22:13.540 is there anything right with people getting uh rude comments because they're fat no that's toxic and

00:22:20.620 insane that's not how adult people interact with each other is bullying children by other children 0.98

00:22:25.860 okay because those children are fat like it's terrible and that should be heavily punished

00:22:31.160 discouraged and people should talk to children you don't do things like that and are people in

00:22:36.940 all bodies fundamentally beautiful wonderful human souls categorically yes value as a grand

00:22:44.840 understanding has nothing to do with how you look or how fat you are how skinny you are that's that's

00:22:49.240 ridiculous it's like an eight-year-old understanding of the world on the other hand is it true to say 0.87

00:22:55.840 that other people will find you as attractive and appealing if you're morbidly obese does not 0.97

00:23:00.180 no and if they tell you that they're one of two things the rare though commendable fat fetishists

00:23:04.980 my people um or patreon link below um or people who are lying mostly in order to appear nice 0.99

00:23:15.020 but they're lying to you here's the biggest fuck all those people fuck everyone else what about you 1.00

00:23:20.640 here's the the my biggest take from this fat people themselves don't think fat is beautiful 1.00

00:23:28.480 97 times out of 100 and so when you tell them oh fat is beautiful they want to believe it but they

00:23:37.520 don't believe it imagine a world in which you took a very very obese person and aliens come down and

00:23:46.500 they're like so we gave everyone a mind virus they actually just find obese people insanely

00:23:50.880 attractive now you're walking down the street everyone's like you know people are hollering at 1.00

00:23:54.680 you like the fuck like construction workers are taking their clothes off the hell is going on 1.00

00:23:58.480 and then you come home and you look at your body do you love your body now is it that simple that 1.00

00:24:04.360 socialization can flip that switch or even after a few months or a few weeks of being inundated with

00:24:09.160 compliments do you love your body my contention is the answer is all mostly no because how we assess

00:24:14.280 bodies is mostly engineered into us via evolution for mechanisms that are real simple pattern detectors

00:24:20.160 in our visual field and if you are a certain shape you're going to like your own shape in the mirror

00:24:24.880 if you are another shape it's grotesquely overweight you're not going to like it most times and when

00:24:30.840 people lie to you and say fat is beautiful body positivity you're not really going to believe it

00:24:35.960 and also those people don't really believe it either so when we're telling people hey body positivity is

00:24:41.540 great fat is beautiful why are we doing that and i know why it's so that fatter people can feel okay

00:24:49.380 and not terrible but that's a commendable reason i think that's awesome and so i think we can

00:24:54.280 simultaneously work as a society though you guys know enough economics to know that multiple components

00:25:00.040 of the society not all of them agree but most people can work on at the same time welcoming everyone

00:25:06.020 every gender every race every sexual orientation i'm saying trans people we worship people muslim

00:25:10.300 people get them all in fat people love everyone maybe not love love because my parole officer keeps

00:25:15.400 saying you can't physically just start loving people in the street mike again um everyone

00:25:20.080 should be treated with a fundamental degree of respect and acceptance and we can also say

00:25:25.740 some people are found more physically attractive on average than others we don't have to mix those

00:25:31.940 two ever like if i walk up to a you know i'm married my wife's sitting over there i'd be really

00:25:37.420 careful what i say she gets violent um she i'm just kidding she stays violent uh so i walk up to a 0.99

00:25:43.600 five foot eleven model in new york and i'm like you know my best line's hey baby yeah what do you think

00:25:48.800 um if she's like yeah you're a little short i'm not gonna be like you know in my best self i'm not

00:25:54.280 gonna be like the height oppression continues like years and mark's talked about this i'm gonna be like

00:26:00.440 i don't think she hates me deep down as a human that i just think she's not into short guys

00:26:05.560 and that's all right i'm five six happens and when you're very overweight you look at certain

00:26:11.740 way that neither you nor most other people find ideally attractive from a physical porking perspective

00:26:18.160 all right but like you know there are so many other utilities for people other than like being in

00:26:24.040 victorious secret ads like like we need to get more obese models like why so they can also have 1.00

00:26:29.280 cocaine addictions and prices of eating at age 22 you know like is that really the pinnacle

00:26:33.660 so i think us admitting look most people want to look a certain way and that certain way is like

00:26:39.780 you know some more muscular than others some fatter than others most people have an understanding

00:26:45.800 matt damon type of you know like just looking like a normal dude a little bit abs maybe the brad pitt

00:26:51.420 from fight club look that's kind of the normal distribution about look preferences kind of that's

00:26:55.760 the center and it's not a very wide distribution we can have that and admit that to ourselves well at the

00:27:01.680 same time saying look a lot of people just don't look like that and the next question is like hey

00:27:05.100 do you want to look better and they're like well yeah let's figure out how to leverage science coaching

00:27:11.420 software and pharmaceutical technologies which i'm huge on in order to get your version of you right

00:27:17.740 now physically into a package that looks more like what you want to look like and what everyone

00:27:22.900 else seems to to find handy dandy and i think that honesty which you guys are very famous for on this

00:27:28.860 show like i get some not so nice feedback on it but here's the thing it's fucking true there's a 0.92

00:27:34.960 whole movement called health at every size haze and the fraction of that movement's waves in the water

00:27:41.200 has like shrunk by a factor of 10 ever since the modern obesity drugs came out osempic and

00:27:47.040 trisepatide and manjaro whatever they came out and a bunch of those people kind of look around like

00:27:50.720 there's a there's a pill i can take a shot i can take there's no longer babies and they just don't

00:27:55.440 come to next week's meeting of fat people you know because at the end of the day most of those

00:27:59.560 people don't want to be fat it would be very very different if uh people who are overweight as a

00:28:05.960 majority of them really loved their look and how they feel and their health and everyone was like

00:28:11.700 you look like you need to change what no that's that's ridiculous stop doing that but they don't

00:28:17.220 most overweight people do not want to be overweight and most other people also don't fancy the

00:28:23.160 overweight as much and so there's actually no mystery the only not mystery but discordance

00:28:28.320 is some group of people you know on the political left academia people i think mostly are very good

00:28:33.420 people just trying to do right and everyone else is bullying them to say this yeah yeah yeah yeah fat

00:28:38.240 is beautiful they say like that i think it just lends just more confusion because the end of the day

00:28:42.720 nobody really believes it there's this funny like meme going around a line old joke um you know like

00:28:47.480 your super hot girlfriend and her super hot friends are like oh my god lizzo's beautiful and

00:28:51.700 then you're like hey you look like lizzo today she's gonna like what the why the discordance i thought

00:28:58.220 she was beautiful and then that girl like if you sit her down if you're like to try to forget 0.96

00:29:01.560 sociology at harvard your last year is lizzo beautiful like as a human and a fucking rock star 0.78

00:29:07.780 queen energy times 100 liz is a goddess the rest of us are just in her wake but like as a person of 0.99

00:29:14.680 body composition you want to attain in order to like attract the highest number of mates and much

00:29:20.020 more importantly look in the mirror and be like yeah with that um no and that's okay and we can be

00:29:26.180 honest about that without coming up to people who look like liz and being like you're fat you know

00:29:30.000 like i'm autistic as i'd probably do something like that but you know what i mean there's like that

00:29:34.520 massive discordance i think the body positivity movement comes from all the right perspectives

00:29:39.100 but ends up doing a disservice because it's trying to like bleach wash away

00:29:42.940 literal reality of the fact that again most fatter people do not want to be fat

00:29:48.580 we'll be back with our guest in a minute but first in our recent interview with dr peter atia

00:29:54.980 we explored the science of longevity he explained that aging isn't just about adding years to your life

00:30:01.320 it's about maintaining quality of life and that's where nmn comes in nmn is the molecule that's

00:30:08.020 caught the attention of top researchers including harvard's dr david sinclair millions of users report

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00:30:45.560 and posted online for you to see just listen to thousands of customers who've made nmn their go-to

00:30:50.880 supplement for longevity visit alpha cell dash labs dot com or scan the qr code on your screen

00:30:56.720 use our exclusive code trig 20 for 20 off that's alpha cell dash labs dot com code trig 20 and remember

00:31:05.140 the 30-day money-back guarantee means you can try it risk-free ready to take control of your health and

00:31:10.860 your future head to alpha cell dash labs dot com today and now back to the interview and it's also the

00:31:18.800 long-term implications which we touched on so my mother throughout her entire life was morbidly obese 1.00

00:31:23.820 and she was like oh but i'm fine and i go for tests and whatever else and they've told me my blood

00:31:29.060 pressure is fine so is there a problem but what people don't seem to understand is the effect the

00:31:33.880 obesity has on your muscular and your skeleton and so what happens is my grandfather who was a doctor

00:31:39.980 described it as being like hinges on a door and so when you put too much weight on the hinges what

00:31:45.540 happens it will come off and the effect that it has had on our hips and her knees to the point where 0.74

00:31:50.640 she is now physically disabled and i always found this conversation really frustrating because i was

00:31:56.960 going to people you're denying reality yeah you're denying reality and what you're doing is condemning

00:32:03.500 people to a an old age where they're sick and that's awful yeah it's uh one of those things that

00:32:10.640 it's like blood pressure the real thing with blood pressure is if your blood pressure is high

00:32:14.880 almost always you don't feel it and they're like wake up one day with high blood pressure and you're

00:32:19.740 like there's no sensation like that and so if you have high blood pressure you can have it for years

00:32:25.180 and just be none the wiser and because you feel fine you think you're okay and then like you know

00:32:30.540 two years later they're like hey your kidneys are done bro you need kidney transplant you're like how

00:32:34.580 and like what's the blood pressure destroyed all of the little tiny machines in there that do the

00:32:39.080 filtering that sucks and so with obesity a lot of times two things first of all people feel just

00:32:44.760 fine for years no no doubt like your mom did and then by the time they're in their 60s still obese 0.95

00:32:50.960 can't move around weight loss becomes very very difficult and if you lose weight without being

00:32:56.280 very active you lose a lot of muscle as well and that's very very bad for your health it's one of

00:33:00.700 those things like everything's fine until it isn't you know like if you're driving your car and you

00:33:04.400 have no seat belt on like you're fine until you hit a telephone pole and then you're part of the

00:33:08.680 telephone pole and that whole fun thing happens so that that is a a big big deal because it's it's

00:33:15.080 really easy to to forget that sort of thing and with obesity another thing is you feel fine but

00:33:23.560 because weight typically accumulates slowly and your brain is really good at adjusting how you feel to

00:33:29.280 all these differences what ends up happening is when most people lose lots of weight they go oh my god

00:33:36.480 i feel incredible and they're like what did i really feel that bad this whole time uh-huh you

00:33:44.280 were just used to it you guys see very obese people like walking around the store and they're like

00:33:49.720 they're doing one of these like they're shuffling it looks like they're lifting an enormous amount of

00:33:54.160 weight because they are it looks like it on their face they have walkers they're kind of pushing and and

00:33:59.600 then you see someone of you know lighter weight just kind of just scamper across like yeah man but those

00:34:05.520 people they get used to it enough and they're like this is just how life is so once you lose the

00:34:09.380 weight you feel better but during the time that you have that weight on you for a lot of people

00:34:13.360 they feel totally fine they go to the doctor the doctor's like you know there's there's doctors that

00:34:17.840 will pursue optimality with you like look like this is unsustainable don't do this to yourself

00:34:21.920 but many doctors i want to say most like as long as your fundamental current in the now blood work

00:34:27.800 looks like not admissible to hospital yet they're like yeah and they always say the same i'm trying

00:34:33.800 to lose some weight you know okay you leave the doctor's office you go have mcdonald's and you

00:34:38.660 forget about it two years later come back to doctor and you're totally fine 15 years later you go in

00:34:43.080 get some blood work and they're like you have like three different types of cancer and you're like

00:34:46.140 huh i didn't see that one coming you should have but you and uh mike what is the mechanism by which

00:34:54.060 obesity um is unhealthy how does that work like how long do you have you know well i guess i suppose

00:35:01.900 the i i what i'm asking is i think we sometimes get very confused and and i think a lot of people

00:35:09.700 just feel that obesity is mostly a an appearance thing so really i think a lot of people do feel

00:35:15.860 that okay yeah wow and and i think that's partly because it's a way of putting that out you know

00:35:20.980 the reality of your mind and there's been times by the way just if people are watching a lot of

00:35:25.900 these free three people in normal shape or slagging off fat people i there were times in my life when

00:35:30.200 i was fat um and i think def i was young at the time but my concern was definitely not about the

00:35:38.500 health implications right of course um so what but but how does it work why does being fat because the

00:35:44.720 reason i ask this is a there have been cultures in history where being obese was considered

00:35:49.940 attractive or at least desirable particularly places where there's not been a lot of food

00:35:55.040 availability not our kind of modern obesity no true thickalicious yes massively obese no not so much

00:36:02.000 no agreed there just weren't even people like but the other thing is you know carrying fat is a

00:36:06.980 desirable thing from an evolutionary perspective to some degree absolutely right so why is it bad for us

00:36:12.640 yeah there's a bunch of reasons one is it's actually being fat is quite bad but getting fat is really

00:36:19.800 bad because when you're getting fat you're having excessive calories put into you and it means the

00:36:25.460 amount of fats and oftentimes um carbohydrates in your blood gets really high and high blood fats

00:36:33.040 cause a lot of uh cardiovascular problems they clog up the arteries like in the literal sense many times

00:36:39.280 and then high degrees of carbohydrate in the blood sustainably both are directly deleterious to various

00:36:45.800 structures like having a high glucose amount in the blood vessels close to your eyes makes you go blind

00:36:51.780 all this other crazy and also it causes you to slowly over time get really bad at managing the

00:36:56.840 glucose and it causes you to be diabetic and then so that's one of the main ways in which obesity hurts

00:37:01.620 you but when you have lots of fat cells there's another way in which it hurts you the fat cells

00:37:08.360 secrete a bunch of different hormones and those hormones affect how the rest of your body works

00:37:15.560 most of those effects are not good fat is not we used to think fat was kind of like an inert tissue

00:37:21.800 like it just sat there and you put away calories into it i just sat there it has a ton of hormonal

00:37:26.480 effects along axes of the rest of the body and it really fucks you up in a bunch of ways there's

00:37:30.780 another way in which it's bad high degrees chronic high calorie loads and being uh very very obese

00:37:39.280 both cause a massive increase in total body systemic inflammation and that low grade chronic

00:37:46.520 inflammation for lack of a better term i'm no medical doctor just fucks everything up and so 0.89

00:37:52.720 all of those effects combined and probably about 10 others i haven't mentioned

00:37:56.660 leads to obesity being real bad so it's literally like if you draw out a diagram it's tons of different

00:38:03.200 vectors from all places some of those vectors go to other causes and then they indirectly go in

00:38:07.900 and if the big circle in the middle is health then it's just just from all angles of attack obesity is

00:38:13.060 bad i haven't even talked about the joint stuff you were referring to earlier if you are very overweight

00:38:18.140 it ends up being first of all you have lower levels of physical activity almost always because it's

00:38:22.860 just harder to move around lower physical activity by itself is very bad for your health so that's

00:38:28.240 already a big problem and obviously the orthopedic concerns when you have hips especially knees 0.82

00:38:35.020 human ankles tend to be pretty good at what they do so they don't often just snap but people who have

00:38:39.660 been overweight for a long time also low in activity their knees just go straight to hell and like 0.85

00:38:45.180 we're getting there we will be with ai getting to where joint replacements are super easy to do

00:38:50.040 but like you guys know people who've gone through joint replacement surgery it's not like you're not

00:38:54.120 waving the flag after that sure i can't wait to go skiing again i broke my arm it's not something i

00:38:58.500 want to do again so i imagine a joint replacement a little bit more uncomfortable 100 and a part of what

00:39:04.100 seems to cause either arthritis or arthritic like ailments is the systemic inflammation so if you have

00:39:10.100 any proneness to arthritis and you happen to be obese you now have way more proneness for it and if you 0.99

00:39:16.580 have arthritis and you are obese and the doctor says eat less move more you're like move more fuck 0.97

00:39:20.860 that that's not happening and then eat less where the hell am i gonna go and then eat less is good 0.98

00:39:27.100 advice in the technical sense of like it's not wrong but when people don't arm you with the advice of

00:39:32.400 how to choose foods that can keep you full and at the same time can keep the calories nice and low

00:39:37.960 and provide all the nutrition you need just eat less turns into real shitty advice because you're like

00:39:42.500 okay cut the mcdonald's cheeseburger in half eat that half like i'm still hungry okay i'll start

00:39:47.360 tomorrow and eat the other half so a lot of times the kind of treatment people get at doctor's offices

00:39:52.100 is phenomenal and super helpful and a lot of times it's um they're just kind of like yes kind of stuff

00:39:57.500 to watch out for and the doctor checks his clock because there's 15 minutes left uh there's one minute

00:40:01.680 left with you and he has this next patient 15 minutes off you go um i don't want to say i'm blaming

00:40:06.340 doctors for this though because uh they get doctors get a lot of and in the comment section no doubt

00:40:11.140 there'll be horror stories about how terrible doctors are about nutrition the thing is for as 0.99

00:40:14.660 long as i can remember uh doctors almost always will tell you when your weight is out of the chart

00:40:20.960 bounds and that you should control it and bring it back are they nutritionists no have they ignored

00:40:25.700 the problem obesity absolutely not here's another fun contentious thing i love being on the show by the 0.76

00:40:30.220 way because i could just say shit without you guys don't get offended and also english people don't 0.94

00:40:34.040 get offended at much um one of the big things that many people have been looking for in obesity and 0.96

00:40:41.980 in health is one external cause to fucking just blame like seed oils no offense seed oils people 0.97

00:40:50.840 you guys are great uh artificial sweeteners additives big pharmas somewhere in there with their top 0.92

00:40:58.300 hats and their canes doing something bad to children i don't know and if we can just blame this one thing

00:41:03.700 and remove it we can still eat whatever we want we can just not have an exercise routine we can not

00:41:11.220 take care of our sleep health and all that andrew huberman stop scrolling on your phone close your

00:41:15.740 eyes make a dark room all that stuff wake up on time and because we've excised this one external factor

00:41:21.600 these aliens come down to earth and they like do the scanning of our water they're like oh you guys

00:41:25.580 have hydrochloropeptide in here and they get it out and everyone's like they just like get healthy

00:41:29.840 and awesome hair grows back um the reality is the vast majority of the reason why people who become

00:41:37.080 obese haven't reduced their obesity there are many many reasons the vast majority of it is that giving 0.65

00:41:44.220 a factor is just real low people just don't care enough and it's so weird to say because you're like

00:41:51.480 blaming the victim i don't know if there's any victims in obesity because like cheetos are not like a

00:41:56.460 you know a gun with the smoke coming out you're also holding the gun that's kind of weird but it's

00:42:01.900 really strange position to have to tell people you know it's not the poison in your water it's not the

00:42:07.960 fact that mega food corporations are like oh man if we just get everyone obese then dot dot dot profit

00:42:13.880 i don't know how that works it's the fact that when you go to the store and you're feeling like 0.93

00:42:18.180 eating something tasty you don't give a shit and you buy the stuff that's tasty and someone's like what 0.86

00:42:22.300 about the calories and you're like they've done a bunch of different studies actually one in new 0.98

00:42:27.080 york new jersey area where they had calorie labels on fast food and then no calorie labels very good

00:42:32.880 control almost no effect for almost everyone really oh yeah that's so interesting because it does affect

00:42:39.560 me when i look at it i'm like okay well you know this is if i eat this this is like two-thirds of my

00:42:44.700 daily intake maybe i shouldn't and look at how you look sexy well thank you uh although i'm scared now

00:42:50.920 good good it's healthy the point you made though i think about the food system i i can see logically

00:42:56.560 how people make those conclusions because if people are fatter they're going to eat more calories and

00:43:01.540 if they eat more calories they spend more money on food and therefore do you see what i'm saying

00:43:04.840 yeah i honestly i do see what you're saying i think that food company executives are not as strategic

00:43:11.940 and machiavellian and fourth order thinkers as people think a lot of times the the opposite is true

00:43:18.240 where they actually mostly look at like quarterly earnings reports right that's how the real business

00:43:24.500 were world works at scale and if you make a bunch of super awesome obese food obesogenic food people

00:43:31.680 get fat your corporation might not even be around in that next generation to profit off of that as a

00:43:37.580 matter of fact if you think about economically you're cross subsidizing your competitors like your

00:43:42.120 competitors could never want to make people fat they say we don't want to make people fat but then fat

00:43:46.620 people still eat more food so they get in and benefit off your whereas you're paying the cost

00:43:50.380 to make people fat and then you also have to i guess sell to people again it might not quite add up

00:43:55.460 what i think is happening is as simple as this food corporations try to sell you a bunch of different

00:44:00.900 stuff and some combination of things that are for the average consumer very reasonably priced

00:44:06.500 very delicious end up just people just buying more mcdonald's and all the other restaurants

00:44:11.640 and fast food have experimented with a bunch of different healthy menu options over the years i mean

00:44:15.360 like dozens yeah and most of them like i remember when the salads came in i have never seen anyone

00:44:20.800 eat a salad in mcdonald's bro like what is that even for like because here's the thing mcdonald's

00:44:25.520 and all these other systems like these food systems these restaurants they're very um evidence-based

00:44:30.580 and very logical and have crazy supply chains and they have like a stack in their menu like it's

00:44:35.220 regional but there's an average stack there's like 20 items they can offer you and their kitchen

00:44:39.560 doesn't support the economics of 25 items they could just all of these are a waste right so if there's a

00:44:44.320 stack of 20 items they look at purely at roi like return on investment so everything has a place in

00:44:49.440 the stack if you throw a fucking salad in there and it stacks out at like what would be number 40 0.96

00:44:54.020 like if you're the salad division product manager and you go to the meeting with the boss like later 0.99

00:44:59.580 that month he's like how are salads doing you're like well according to the numbers nobody gives a

00:45:03.160 he's like like what is he supposed to do what is but lose his job to stand up for salad because if

00:45:09.120 mcdonald's quarterly earnings go down they're going to look and be like where can we save money like

00:45:12.620 well i know nobody buys the salad they're like all right johnson you got a promotion no more salad

00:45:16.940 it a lot of the healthy food at fast food restaurants is like super well-intentioned here's the thing

00:45:22.920 capitalism we're all capitalists here yeah yeah venezuelan you love communism right yeah of course

00:45:28.320 at least a great way to lose weight it is very that even the zoo animals didn't have trouble until

00:45:32.680 people started breaking into eating them you know about that like uh yeah during the more recent

00:45:37.040 venezuelan starvation episode people were breaking into the zoo to eat the animals that's like real

00:45:43.020 yeah yeah uh being from russia that was a fun little interjection of just depressing

00:45:48.660 i am russian right it's all in there yeah um the the fundamental situation is

00:45:57.600 food companies are just trying to do their best to give you whatever the hell it is you're going to

00:46:06.020 buy and because capitalism is accurately construed as greed motivated greed in the best way i think

00:46:14.700 for us if we were a little left of center be the most evil thing in the world um greed motivates you

00:46:21.620 to do anything to get the dollar right anything which means that companies don't care to make you

00:46:30.160 obese and as a matter of fact it's bad vibes for them to do anything to you that you won't like in 1.00

00:46:35.440 the short term or the long term mcdonald's does not want the pr of people turning around and be like 0.99

00:46:39.880 you've poisoned me for 20 years they don't want that shit but what they want is money and the easiest 0.98

00:46:46.100 way for them to get money is to be like hey francis what do you really want and you're like 1.00

00:46:50.920 number five with extra large fries and they're like what what are we supposed to do not give him

00:46:56.760 what he wants it's our job as a corporation to do what this man wants give him the extra fries

00:47:00.720 and that's it like that is my occam's razor for why the food system is the way it is because most 0.97

00:47:06.460 people don't give a shit they just like tasty things and also i've been a personal trainer for a 0.96

00:47:10.840 long time around a huge fitness company i used to be a college professor for a long time teaching 0.99

00:47:14.420 people how to be personal trainers talking to just like tons and tons of real people in the

00:47:18.680 real world and real people in the real world are beautiful awesome amazing in 50 different ways 0.80

00:47:23.800 but they just fundamentally for the most part don't give a shit about what goes in their bodies you 0.85

00:47:28.780 guys let's walk around new york you're gonna look at people eating all kinds of stuff like have you 0.96

00:47:32.040 really thought through this pretzel they're like what get out of here you know typically orchestra 0.96

00:47:36.480 and like if you can get people to give a shit the food corporations will pivot as quickly as 0.98

00:47:42.920 possible mcdonald's corporate they so much as there's so much a sniff out a health food phase 0.99

00:47:48.360 they got 10 candidate items and menus across the country the next month mcdonald's test kitchen

00:47:54.000 they're cooking up batches they don't care mcdonald's in two years could be a health food store

00:47:59.060 if mass amounts of global and american people demanded in the economic sense of i have the money

00:48:05.620 and i'm willing to give it to you so you get me this every company with pepsi wouldn't make a single

00:48:11.120 sugary beverage ever again it would all be artificially sweetened they don't care can you

00:48:15.380 imagine like being in charge of pepsico and one of your interns is like people are buying more diet

00:48:20.620 soda and less sugar they're like you're like take take a drink of your scotch you're like

00:48:24.840 my father didn't build this company to make sugar farmers bankrupt roll the regular sugar in

00:48:31.060 they're gonna do that they don't care in in the most sociopathic way they don't care but also in the

00:48:36.000 coolest way they don't care they're gonna give you what you want it just so happens to be that most

00:48:39.940 americans and people around the world they just want cheaper food they want to be tasty so for

00:48:44.220 health food people watching this if you make your health foods cheaper and you make them really tasty

00:48:48.360 and they have lower calories and they make you really full you're going to make a lot of money

00:48:52.500 and you're going to help a ton of people but the idea that like people are really health conscious and

00:48:57.120 just trying their best and they just get fooled by these advertisements for megacorps my face

00:49:01.660 advertisements never made me at mcdonald's it's that smell that you drive by you're like the hell's in

00:49:05.320 there i want it all if you're someone who values free inquiry and independent thinking which let's

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00:50:12.660 venice.ai slash trigonometry and see what you've been missing and now back to the show it's a great point

00:50:22.500 and i'm actually really glad that glad that you brought up the term big pharma because when we come to

00:50:28.760 america we notice the suspicion around big pharma nobody ever goes you know who's great big pharma

00:50:36.980 it's always like awkward cocktail party banter yeah exactly and it's just and the moment people start

00:50:43.660 getting a tad conspiratorial which you love to do in this country let's be fair nonsense you drop in big

00:50:49.800 pharma so why the suspicion around big pharma and what's really going on here man

00:50:57.760 there are legitimate critiques of big pharma most of them having to do with big pharma's cozy though

00:51:08.980 sometimes necessary relationship with government and making various regulatory structures exceedingly

00:51:14.860 complex so that little pharma can't compete uh that serves big pharma well in the game theoretic

00:51:21.840 locked in landscape of like well we can't really deregulate so if they're going to be regulators

00:51:27.120 we might as well grease them up to our advantage which every industry does big anything means that

00:51:33.700 the big players who got there earlier the pfizers the etc they have lawyers and other people in

00:51:39.120 washington lobbyists who are going to look at smaller upstart competitors and be like can we get the

00:51:44.320 legal system kind of to reflect that so those people don't like fuck up our profit stream

00:51:48.500 that happens for sure um we can blame big pharma for some of that i happen to be from a very highly 0.96

00:51:56.020 free market school of economic thought myself for my dilettante bullshit pretend economics that i don't

00:52:00.640 actually know but i place most of the blame in the hands of government because if you're gonna have 0.90

00:52:06.600 ultra powerful government with ultra heavy-handed regulation you as a major corporation can either go

00:52:13.020 in there and be like hey do this or you can just sit around and be like we'll just be happily

00:52:16.820 regulated by whoever goes in there and says that first you know like back in the soviet days i point

00:52:21.760 to you as if you and i lived in like the 50s or some like if you weren't ratting people out

00:52:26.260 they was ran you out and so it's like whoever gets the reins of communist power first that's kind of

00:52:31.960 who who's there so i don't blame the corporations as much as i do government for that for sure

00:52:36.380 they do have some blame 100 and so some of that is i think rightfully assigned

00:52:40.820 uh and and if that concludes my anti-big pharma rant and begins my much more impassioned pro-big

00:52:47.220 pharma rant i think one of the only people in the world certainly who has like youtube followers or

00:52:53.140 whatever that is like super pro-big pharma um i think everyone's actually pro-big pharma when the

00:52:59.460 pressure is high enough like imagine going to the hospital and you're like your arm bone is like out

00:53:04.880 you can see it my man yeah it's fun right you're like oh cool it wasn't out but but it was like

00:53:10.320 that oh it's also even more disturbing but it's under the skin you're like that's not how my arm's

00:53:14.680 supposed to look and imagine you're like an agonizing pain and the nurse is like we're going

00:53:19.500 to give you something for the pain you're like hold on hold on does big pharma make it and she's

00:53:23.900 like yeah man keep that out of my body dope my man it starts getting infected and they're like we 0.54

00:53:31.300 have antibiotics for you and you're like big pharma again like yes that's correct sir you're like nope

00:53:36.640 and then there you die in agony after hours and days of having ooze on your arm and it goes up

00:53:42.460 through your brain and then you die no one's actually against big pharma when it comes down to it

00:53:47.200 because big pharma makes revolutionary medications that keep all of us not infected free of pain when we

00:53:54.760 need to be do they up every now and again yeah hell yeah they screw up all the time like every

00:54:00.860 fallible human institution yeah but i guess mike the suspicion is um for for some people and i think

00:54:07.180 it's not unmerited is for example what we saw during the pandemic right it's like let's vaccinate

00:54:12.320 the kids when everyone knows there's no point vaccinating kids against covet right at least that

00:54:17.720 was my perception that was my view so the sense that the profit motive drives them to over prescribe

00:54:24.020 things oh pharma doesn't prescribe anything doctors do and doctors do not directly they do not directly

00:54:30.200 profit from prescribing more medications that is a huge myth nobody i know a ton of doctors my wife's 1.00

00:54:35.340 a medical doctor there's not like you write a bunch of scripts you know hey good job this month here's

00:54:39.280 money that just straight up doesn't happen the oversight for that is massive by the way now when

00:54:44.500 your people coming to your patients want a lot of drugs you can be a doctor that's like more like

00:54:49.640 hold on let's wait and see how this evolves you're like how many medic how many antibiotics and pain

00:54:53.780 pills do you need if you if you had like a smoking gun of pharma really very massively influencing

00:55:00.220 doctors to write more prescriptions as far as i've seen this just almost if not just completely just

00:55:06.160 not there it's just not there um what about the example i gave about look my view was that vaccines

00:55:14.120 were massively over prescribed during the pandemic to loads of people didn't need them

00:55:18.380 did you think that's something i think most of the i think it's a fair take i think most of the

00:55:23.180 people who in the public health space wanted everyone to have a vaccine uh weren't so much

00:55:27.740 concerned about everyone needing the vaccine they were concerned about spreading and so junior comes

00:55:33.000 home from elementary school he's fine but he coughs out there wasn't much there wasn't but these

00:55:38.580 people typically who are in the public health community and let's just call it call it what it is

00:55:42.760 like leftist care and women um they're like like come on that's who shares all the poor vaccine on 0.63

00:55:48.380 facebook um um they're incredibly neurotic uh and incredibly risk averse and so if they say like 0.98

00:55:55.920 okay one extra you guys see this like advertisement bullshit like even one life lost is a tragedy which 0.79

00:56:01.400 is so true but also from a policy perspective like you can't just think like that because it's always 0.94

00:56:06.720 trade-offs and it's like all of our freedoms as long as to save everyone no one really believes

00:56:11.000 that so we can get past that i think those people are more concerned about getting everyone vaccinated

00:56:16.700 so we could have completely crushed covet out of existence which was probably more likely than not

00:56:23.740 at some point uh but it turned out uh you know um vaccines were profoundly effective vaccines probably

00:56:30.780 on aggregate as far as i can tell saved about 20 million lives around the world which is like

00:56:35.640 several holocausts worth of lives um depends who you ask mine yes well in my view it never 0.84

00:56:40.980 happened anyway also vaccines aren't real and birds are robots yeah this is going down the whole

00:56:45.840 wormhole uh so yes that's not a dependable unit to some um so vaccines are on net aggregate really

00:56:52.180 really good yeah um and i don't think that there was much push from big pharma to over prescribe

00:56:59.240 vaccines i think that pr wise big pharma can't afford emails to people that even hint at like that

00:57:06.420 one whistleblower gets out from an email that the pfizer ceo is like let's push these vaccines

00:57:11.920 a little bit of the wrong way dude pfizer stock and the whole thing goes they have to be very very

00:57:18.460 easy but i've tried to talk to higher level pharma people and it's basically like talking to james

00:57:22.460 what do you do for a living they're like what do i not do i gotta get the out of here they're very not

00:57:27.940 transparent mostly because like everything is insanely litigious and there's a huge pr situation 1.00

00:57:32.360 did a lot of americans on the left want everyone forcibly vaccinated yes you want someone to blame

00:57:41.560 i'd blame them off no i'm happy blaming them they might have a little bit of blame yeah i just don't

00:57:46.820 think it's a huge fact so it's interesting to me because based on what you've described

00:57:50.720 you must i can't imagine you'd be super aligned with what the the current health uh government the

00:57:58.320 the health department and rfk uh talking about that doesn't sound like because he's talking about

00:58:04.640 changing the food structure which you don't seem to be too concerned about and likewise with vaccines

00:58:09.920 you know i get a different sense from you i think vaccines are one of the pinnacle achievements of

00:58:15.060 mankind and if vaccines have side effects which they do and are sometimes deleterious which they are

00:58:20.380 and they sometimes kill people which they do but what kills more people covid or any of the covid

00:58:25.840 vaccines well the russian sputnik vaccine who knows what the hell it did right and the chinese 1.00

00:58:29.400 vaccine that like people took but never did anything like that moderna uh pfizer all the all the top tier 0.57

00:58:35.740 u.s based vaccines they are like any drug will save and help most people some people will have very

00:58:43.920 mixed results and a few people though a few in a sample of 100 in a sample of the entire united states

00:58:50.720 we're talking about hundreds of tens of thousands of people will have very bad outcomes but on the

00:58:56.660 aggregate vaccines are phenomenal should we be forced vaccinating people there's a very interesting

00:59:03.200 discussion there are ways in which that discussion turns into a yes if there was a confirmed viral 0.95

00:59:09.820 strain confirmed that came out of india or some shit that had a 50 on contact within two days death 0.91

00:59:17.740 rate and a virality 10 times that of covid and someone in the u.s said don't force vaccinations 1.00

00:59:23.000 i'd be like i'm coming to your house i'm gonna go to india real quick i'm gonna cough on your bitch ass 1.00

00:59:26.840 out of here state of emergency flat out um during world war ii freedom of speech took a little bit 0.99

00:59:33.700 of a hit because like you could be a nazi spy we're fighting a global war it's real in the context of the

00:59:39.680 real situation of covid in the context of most vaccines i think the trade-off of giving government

00:59:44.380 that much power versus the actual effect that you're going to modulate is much more in the

00:59:49.160 direction of let's not do mandatory forced anything you know so i'm super at the same time

00:59:55.960 aligned with not anti but more vaccine skeptical people on the limitations on government power

01:00:02.440 in almost all cases except for super psychotic germ from india case i'm super against mandatory

01:00:08.160 kind of anything really for sure mandatory mandatory vaccinations we had in russia actually

01:00:12.940 and my parents uh pulled my sister and i out of school that day because they this is real fun

01:00:17.420 for people who don't know they would vaccinate children with the same needle okay the same needle

01:00:23.920 not like the same syringe but the cap no the same literal needle and this was like in the late 80s

01:00:29.940 when aids was getting to be a real party and so like that yeah like that is like bone chilling

01:00:34.860 all that no thanks uh but at the same time should we be recognizing that vaccines are incredibly

01:00:41.260 powerful and we should be aiming to make them better over time and more efficient and less

01:00:45.760 deleterious yeah 100 i guess what i'm asking is are you uh excited or are you concerned about

01:00:52.220 rfk being in charge of everything that's going on in this country with health or both at the same time

01:00:58.540 i'm curious i'm curious i don't know what he's going to do um there's a kind of a term in kind of

01:01:05.280 geopolitics war strategy of see what leaders do not what they say because like you know if you just

01:01:10.620 looked at what people said trump would be like what the hell there's an actual leader he's like

01:01:14.860 and does some good stuff you know and so uh with like rfk i kind of want to see what they kind of

01:01:21.740 crap out um for me uh i think the on the aggregate the new administration um especially doge

01:01:29.940 i with doge so goddamn hard minimizing the size of government cleaning out a ton of bureaucracy and 0.98

01:01:36.380 waste massively deregulating the economy it's just like things are pretty much like economically like 0.90

01:01:41.460 objectively correct things to do that just a lot of people on the left have a lot of feelings about

01:01:45.800 for some goddamn reason i think that's so wonderful that the inclusion of rfk who i think is genuinely 0.95

01:01:51.160 a really really good person who gives a shit and wants to help people in that administration to me is 0.98

01:01:55.680 kind of like all right let's see what he does but if he comes out hard against vaccines it's just 0.99

01:02:00.960 going to be in the wrong and like uh hopefully it doesn't hurt a bunch of people it's not likely that

01:02:05.060 it will um if he comes after the food system like they've been doing that for years anyway it's it's

01:02:10.680 not that it's going to do tons of damage it's just like a lot of money spent towards something

01:02:14.900 that's almost no effect where if you actually empowered so here's how i would handle this whole

01:02:19.640 thing if i was rfk i would just do all that cool kennedy shit you know epstein's island first 0.79

01:02:23.620 epstein's island i need a refill for my soul and then work um the first thing which epstein's 0.92

01:02:29.320 island does work i'll shut up i stop i have like a stack of 80 epstein's island jokes that just come

01:02:32.980 you fellas you fellas have been to the island you know how it is right

01:02:35.240 i wanted to go i got my application rejected like try again next year um i would say massively

01:02:47.060 deregulate the pharmaceutical industry massively and have just one really easy law

01:02:53.220 if you are a consenting adult and your doctor approves a prescription you can try any testing

01:02:59.120 phase medication you want like do you own your body or does the government own your body want to

01:03:05.400 find out which one it is try to take a drug from a manufacturer that hasn't passed uh all stages of

01:03:11.140 fda trials yet you're going to go to jail and stuff but it's my body and as a consenting adult with

01:03:17.420 doctor's approval if i can take a drug from any manufacturer then it turns out i have really great

01:03:23.420 results they get a ton of data studying brave young people who are young i'm not young anymore

01:03:27.000 god damn it where's my hair so it's it's going to be a huge win-win and then in addition to that 0.55

01:03:34.120 the deregulation of the space brings enough load of competition or a ton of money software money and 0.97

01:03:39.660 like that and then with ai you have this incredible wave which will happen anyway it'll just happen a few

01:03:45.240 years later with the current fda of insane innovation that makes medications orders of

01:03:50.680 magnitude cheaper more effective and less side effect prone that's the answer more pharma more

01:03:57.480 technology more intervention of the human body that is the way to get pharma to do the right stuff

01:04:02.620 as far as overall u.s health we have that one big problem people like to eat a ton of high calorie 0.70

01:04:09.780 tasty people like to eat it how do you go about that imagine having a a real drive policy wise in 0.93

01:04:17.760 the uk to get the motherfuckers up north to stop drinking pints every night what you're gonna do 0.95

01:04:24.260 you're gonna be like this has calories he's gonna be like oh sweet um it's bad for you cool everyone 0.99

01:04:29.400 dies anyway i what you got what you got left at some point you got to be like you can't drink this

01:04:33.920 anymore it's illegal we already know how prohibition works it's not fun like back alley beer dealers we 0.96

01:04:39.040 don't want that shit again as a free society in a free world we have to understand that we have to 0.94

01:04:44.520 try our best to help everybody but at the same time when people just kind of want to do their 0.99

01:04:49.160 fucking shit and pay the cost health wise we just got to be like this is what they're gonna do and 0.98

01:04:54.200 you can gingerly educate them you can tell them but heavy-handed government regulation restructuring 1.00

01:04:59.400 the food system all the shit it's some combination of doesn't work waste a lot of money and just kind of 0.97

01:05:04.300 antithetical to the principles of liberty which is like you want to like eat french fries cigarettes 0.99

01:05:08.740 and smoke them at the same time like rock on i'll light it for you i don't think you should be doing

01:05:12.780 that but you're the one paying the cost and freedom is a mother man being sleep deprived messes with

01:05:19.460 everything reaction time memory decision making even your emotions it's like walking around legally

01:05:25.860 drunk and the long-term effects just as bad as smoking most people reach for melatonin but here's a

01:05:32.600 problem melatonin is a hormone and most supplements give you doses 10 to 50 times higher than your body

01:05:39.680 naturally produces that's why you wake up groggy your sleep gets worse over time and your body

01:05:45.500 stops making melatonin on its own that's why i use evening being by verso it's melatonin free using

01:05:53.040 clinically studied ingredients to help you fall asleep faster stay asleep longer and get more deep

01:05:59.320 and rem sleep without messing with your hormones i've been taking it myself and honestly i'm falling

01:06:06.300 asleep faster and my mind actually switches off at night which used to be a battle shut it of course it

01:06:12.680 did head to ver.so and use code trigger to get 15 off your first order or click the link in the description

01:06:22.780 that's v-e-r dot s-o code trigger and i think there's one element that we haven't spoken about

01:06:32.460 which is the element of misinformation and that i actually find it really worrying mike when i'm in

01:06:38.700 this country and i talk to people and they bring up vaccines and i try and be open because i'm very

01:06:44.240 pro-vaccination i think this guy's i'm uh i have friends who who are very vaccine skeptical i don't

01:06:55.420 mean the covid vaccine i mean vaccine skeptical and i i i don't have the language to to win that

01:07:02.540 argument sure and i thought that what happened during the pandemic was bad among other reasons for

01:07:07.800 that reason yeah because it discredited vaccines that do work where the trade-offs are absolutely

01:07:13.560 worth it 100 and we've lost the language for it yeah yeah but that's a very important that and

01:07:21.760 that's another part of it but the thing that i find really worrying mike and it's not even a topic

01:07:26.420 of conversation because the study was discredited but and these have been intelligent people we talk

01:07:32.400 to where they go well you know the vaccines cause autism and i'm like what are we still having

01:07:37.640 this conversation here and that's really worrying for me and it's sad yeah because people are allowing

01:07:44.620 misinformation to dictate the choices not only over their body but over their children's bodies

01:07:50.320 is it true that there's no link between vaccines and autism yes like hasn't been debated in a generation

01:07:56.540 um if you want to say there's a link between vaccines and autism you have like an enormous hill to

01:08:03.580 climb by just looking at you know like um like uh you liked a girl back in middle school and you were

01:08:09.580 trying to look for signs of how she interacted with you that she likes you and every sign is like she

01:08:13.260 hates you and you're a creep but you're trying to like but but that one time she didn't yell at me 0.94

01:08:17.520 too much maybe it's because she loves me that's the uphill battle that like vaccine skeptics for the 0.99

01:08:22.420 autism thing have um it's it's it's also a really weird random hill to die on because if you said

01:08:29.220 like you know certain kinds of vaccines cause various immune function abnormalities like you have

01:08:34.100 a few decent studies 10 studies that say the other thing but that's something the autism thing was just

01:08:40.080 like almost whole cloth like folks who have like here's the thing if you have an autistic child

01:08:47.020 especially severely autistic i think there's nothing i can say in a podcast that's gonna be charitable

01:08:52.960 enough to how um even the words here are difficult to to kind of calibrate how big of a challenge you

01:09:00.180 have and um how much of a necessity there may be for finding someone to blame and i feel that a thousand

01:09:08.120 percent that much resentment and anger is two things 100 understandable and occasionally

01:09:16.540 vented at the wrong thing and i think the vaccines thing was just super convenient you know it's a big

01:09:22.700 crime happens and every criminal runs away and there's just some dupe on the corner police show

01:09:26.000 up like who the are you and it's vaccines with autism he's like i was just having a coke they baton

01:09:30.120 the out of him drag him into the car um that's vaccines and do we know uh do our cases of autism

01:09:37.000 rising and do we know why that is if it is uh it's complex issue we know one of the predominant

01:09:43.920 reasons not the only reason is increased awareness increased use of proper diagnostic criteria

01:09:50.520 there's another thing with autism that's more curious uh jesus you guys are dragging all the

01:09:56.120 politically incorrect out of me i swear to god i'm getting that's what we do yeah like you fiendishly

01:10:00.600 smile like yes yes more we've slagged off fat people i mean now we're getting to the good oh boy

01:10:06.780 so there has been a recent very profound rise of autism um i say mostly actually diagnoses but even

01:10:16.980 more claimed diagnoses because there are a lot of folks that have a high degree of neuroticism

01:10:27.540 a high degree of social interaction phobia mostly because either they are genetically just more prone

01:10:35.040 to be introverted and a little bit neurotic and or because growing up they had negative

01:10:40.200 socialization experiences with other children and middle school you know like middle school just 0.99

01:10:43.880 really you in the ass for lack of a better term like you were awkward looking or something i did 0.98

01:10:47.860 not mean to look at you there's only two of you who am i supposed to play um and uh you know you just 0.99

01:10:54.340 kind of had a bad time and it kind of made you go into your shell you know and that um experience

01:11:00.500 also of bullying and being physically intimidated makes you neurotic makes you misinterpret or be

01:11:06.780 very difficult with facial expressions like some people don't have the confidence to look someone in

01:11:11.200 the eyes as they talk to them if they've been beaten enough and made fun of enough in their lives and

01:11:15.840 they're already genetically more neurotic and more introverted zero autism by the way they're perfectly

01:11:20.740 fluid with humor they understand every joke they get offended here's the thing is autistic people just 0.97

01:11:25.940 almost never really get offended because they don't really have a concept for how that works 1.00

01:11:30.720 you're like hey like you don't belong here they're like okay let me just fuck off you're like 0.98

01:11:34.940 okay and so those folks that have been basically kind of bullied had a bad time in childhood and are 0.99

01:11:42.460 not super pro-social um even though they want to be and they can read all the signals they have been

01:11:47.660 both misdiagnosed lately a ton as autistic and have themselves self-diagnosed there's almost like a

01:11:53.640 a bit of a pride with autistic diagnoses nowadays like with all diagnoses now oh of course yeah 0.87

01:11:59.540 like you guys know the channel youtube channel jubilee no it's a great channel they have like

01:12:03.680 all the people come together and it's like one one gay dude rates 20 people who claim to be gay as

01:12:08.880 the gay or not then they find out later everyone comes out that sort of thing and they had a bunch

01:12:12.820 of them with autism and like who's autistic and who's not they had autistic people rate which is extra

01:12:17.420 hilarious because they're like i don't i can't figure this out for myself and a lot of people

01:12:22.380 um it seems like they really uh identify with like their grade i'm like autism type whatever

01:12:29.240 and it seems like this in community there's also that the hollywood left thing made neurodivergent cool

01:12:35.120 i can't stand that term because all neurological and psychological qualities are rather normally

01:12:42.480 distributed there's no such thing as the average person it's a statistical abstraction

01:12:46.820 it's like everyone's different and so let's say i'm neurodivergent it's like well neurodivergent how 0.99

01:12:51.300 like i don't score as neurodivergent on any tests but i'm a weird fucking asshole and you're like that 0.99

01:12:55.680 guy's definitely something everyone's something so the whole term of neurodivergence has by some 0.96

01:13:00.900 people in the sort of hollywood peripheral left which obviously spreads to a lot of the rest of the

01:13:05.380 world has been planted as the seed of like hey you're special somehow and all these other things

01:13:10.540 about yourself you don't really love it's because of this one thing but it's a cool thing and it's new

01:13:14.680 and you're awesome and you're really like i don't know like albert einstein because he was maybe sort

01:13:17.880 of autistic and all of a sudden they're like yeah and so actually autistic people their levels may or

01:13:24.780 may not be rising but if they're rising it's probably not very high and probably uh due mostly to actual

01:13:31.960 diagnoses because you're like you guys know like we didn't have a term for autism back like 100 years

01:13:36.460 ago there were still autistic people they were just labeled categories that i'm not allowed to say

01:13:41.040 on public youtube like very bad words for people that are bad words because they used to be labeled

01:13:45.940 for those so better diagnostic criteria is mostly explanation but there is this other cohort of

01:13:50.540 people that are either claiming to be autistic and they're not or diagnosed by maybe not so diligent

01:13:56.980 psychotherapists as autistic when in reality they're really just some combination of introverted

01:14:02.020 and neurotic and sometimes from genetic perspectives or variables and other times just because they had a

01:14:07.980 really bad time growing up and they you get bullied your entire life um you don't look at people the

01:14:12.840 same way jokes are awkward everything is uncomfortable you do a lot of this stuff and it has nothing to do

01:14:16.980 with autism and so those people i think now some of those people have grouped themselves into autistic

01:14:21.460 because it's kind of a new cool thing to do a very similar thing has occurred with uh the the trans 0.63

01:14:27.420 situation but um that sucks yeah well no we can't let him go on that anti-trans advocate mike isratel

01:14:37.420 thank you so much well no so uh i guess the the real question i wanted to ask you before we wrap up 0.52

01:14:42.760 because we've been dancing around is what's the answer at an individual level to the fact that we've

01:14:50.180 never had this amount of incredibly tasty available cheap food ever uh how do we deal with that

01:14:56.700 two answers great question number one is look into all of the new pharmaceuticals coming out

01:15:04.020 because they're unbelievable it's probably true to say that the modern um weight loss drugs you guys

01:15:10.200 have heard of ozempic and all yes it's probably true to say that it's better for most people to be

01:15:14.600 taking it than not taking it it's damn near a health elixir i'm not kidding i'll get a lot of

01:15:19.320 come on that's not that's not typical let's be honest right usually you mentioned yourself there's

01:15:24.340 trade-offs with everything there are trade-offs with ozempic there are trade-offs which is hepatite

01:15:28.020 a new drug coming out soon called ritatratitis trade-offs as well yeah but actually the trade-offs

01:15:31.840 are diminishing and the positive effects are escalating and so the trade-offs do exist but

01:15:36.720 they're massively in the positive favor uh if you're obese or just for everyone yes actually if you're

01:15:42.680 obese but maybe low doses for most people okay that's great that sounds great great so tell us more

01:15:49.220 about that yeah so if you look through the literature on the effects of these drugs the

01:15:53.180 primary way by which most of them work is they just reduce your food consumption so you lose weight and

01:15:56.860 then the weight loss like kicks off tons of health benefits but it turns out these drugs have anti

01:16:01.540 profound anti-inflammatory effects psychological effects where they actually make you calmer they

01:16:08.040 reduce all kinds of noise in your head not just food noise and can make you less addiction prone

01:16:13.880 a lot of people quit smoking on these drugs just because they didn't feel like smoking anymore

01:16:17.700 and tons and tons of benefits they're still finding every few months more and more benefits of these

01:16:22.460 drugs the costs are pretty well known and pretty well understood some gi stuff if you take it wrong

01:16:27.400 some people it just doesn't uh meld with some people actually have increased probability of having

01:16:31.840 depression after taking these drugs that's a little bit more complex because sometimes they

01:16:35.740 kind of the only happy thing in their lives is tasty food and the food doesn't taste the same anymore

01:16:39.680 and so that that happens but on aggregate these drugs are super special and magical because they

01:16:44.940 seem to be net beneficial for most people and especially for people that are overweight there

01:16:49.980 are new drugs coming out all the time i would say look into them if you're trying to lose weight because

01:16:54.000 like well they were designed to help you and they're really awesome use them that's part one part two is

01:17:00.660 you might consider getting a little bit of an education about how nutrition works about how physical

01:17:08.000 fitness works but the best place to get an education for that now is my youtube channel i'm not kidding

01:17:12.000 also that's fine if you like really weird humor and ball people um just talk to any ai um i would say

01:17:18.800 google gemini is probably the worst because it's so filtered by social justice warriors that it's

01:17:23.480 actually not even that smart um i use chat gpt from open ai i think it's like drinking from an 0.99

01:17:28.800 infinite well of knowledge is the greatest thing that ever happened grok elon's shit is awesome 0.95

01:17:33.700 you just talk to gpt's and ask them like what should i be eating and how should i be working out 0.98

01:17:38.520 in order to get some some decent results and help me now that i'm taking this medication

01:17:42.160 it's going to hook you up like crazy and so yes take the medications they're amazing but also if you

01:17:48.040 really want to make a change you're not ducking personal responsibility it's just not going to happen

01:17:53.140 figure out what you need to know hire a personal trainer go look at some websites download some

01:17:57.960 fitness apps and make a commitment to yourself to say i'm going to do this thing and it's not always

01:18:03.380 going to be fun but putting my pants on in the morning isn't fun i want to walk around with my 0.87

01:18:07.540 dick out again the authorities continue to tell me that's misunderstanding it's bad you're going to 0.99

01:18:12.140 have to do some not so fun stuff but you're going to pay it forward because years and months even later

01:18:17.620 you're going to look better you're going to feel better you're going to be healthier so yes big

01:18:21.320 pharma is awesome and it's super super great that it's coming in a few years there'll be even better

01:18:25.880 drugs drugs for muscle building are on the horizon they're already untesting wonderful stuff yes to big

01:18:30.660 pharma but a lot of people have this big pharma versus individual responsibility it's both yes you

01:18:39.080 can take the drugs and you can go to the store and instead of getting a bag of cheetos you can get a bag

01:18:43.280 of apples i know the apples kind of suck you want to look good feel good you eat the apples for a few

01:18:49.040 months you feel much better a few cheetos here and there a few apples you're in a state of balance 0.56

01:18:53.180 everything is going really well before mike answers a final question at the end of the

01:18:57.860 interview make sure you click the link in the description head to our sub stack where you'll

01:19:02.180 see this what advice would you give someone for the simplest route to breaking poor eating and

01:19:06.860 exercise habit cycles how is training for strength gains different than training for size gains now this

01:19:15.460 is a nice surprise i'm a great fan of dr mike i hope he talks at francis into getting on the tea

01:19:20.580 oh geez mike what a pleasure it has been having you on the show final question always the same

01:19:27.920 what's the one thing we're not talking about that we really should be oh geez um

01:19:33.040 the coming i guess i'll keep it related the the coming era of wonder drugs is already upon us with these

01:19:45.140 drugs and he's not talking about fentanyl because that's already well so my favorite drug and it

01:19:52.060 needs to be chinese i need the good you know i don't need none of this fake stuff so um they're

01:19:57.800 actually so there's recently a pain drug that uh works locally and not systemically or so it works

01:20:05.520 on the peripheral nerves and not the brain and it has similar analgesic pain reduction effects to all

01:20:11.420 the crazy narcotics but zero of the addictive effects there's actually no mechanism for you to be

01:20:15.880 addicted to it and there's almost zero side effects so wonder drugs are coming for pain and the idea

01:20:20.900 that people used to use pain drugs and ruin their whole lives from abuse that is going to be something

01:20:25.100 we look on in probably about 10 years and go holy we used to feed these to people this is crazy

01:20:30.300 drugs so ai power drug discovery is just getting started and it's going to lead to drugs that do

01:20:37.880 crazy things exercise mimetics so you take a pill and almost every part of your body responds as if

01:20:44.240 you were exercising for two hours a day like like muscle drugs to help you build muscle now why why did

01:20:50.720 you look at me like judging eyes um you know build up your muscle a little bit there'll be drugs for

01:20:57.060 cosmetic effects to tighten up your skin to make you more look youthful there's going to be drugs for

01:21:02.040 almost every amazing thing that you can't imagine are coming because ai could understand things we're

01:21:07.280 barely capable of comprehending and making drugs for them with huge positive effects very tiny

01:21:12.560 negatives i think preparing people for a world in which drugs aren't this thing they're like i should

01:21:17.580 be taking fewer of them and are more this thing of like well are there any drugs that are going to

01:21:21.220 help me achieve what i want that are safe and effective uh looking at it more of as a tool and a

01:21:26.500 utility belt rather than this forbidden thing we shouldn't be taking clearly in the 1980s anti-drug uh

01:21:32.280 the stuff uh you know propaganda failed with me but i think that kind of stuff is is going to be here

01:21:37.680 the good news is we don't have to be talking about it because when the amazing drugs come out and all

01:21:41.400 your friends are on them you're just going to take them and you're going to be like this is sweet but

01:21:44.160 better to get to it earlier than later i guess mike an absolute pleasure join us on subset where we

01:21:50.920 carry on the conversations and we are going to find out the truth about vaccines and rfk

01:21:55.480 zofa asks a great question how is training for strength games different than training for size games

01:22:04.680 good question there are two big differences

01:22:25.480 you

TRIGGERnometry - July 02, 2025

Why We’re Fatter Than Ever - Mike Israetel

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