TRIGGERnometry - ＂Women Have Been Scammed＂

00:00:00.240 We don't really have a frank conversation

00:00:02.160 because we don't understand the stratifications

00:00:03.880 when it comes to sort of race and identity

00:00:05.440 and culture and class.

00:00:07.420 And they can't seem to get their heads around the fact

00:00:09.980 that maybe these people think differently to them.

00:00:13.320 Because they're not interested.

00:00:14.260 They genuinely don't care.

00:00:15.500 I often say that the most socially conservative people

00:00:18.060 in this country are ethnic minorities.

00:00:19.960 But that's not a conversation they're willing to have.

00:00:22.100 But you, a white woman, are happy to say

00:00:24.000 that it's not real diversity

00:00:24.920 because she doesn't think the things

00:00:25.920 that you think she should think.

00:00:27.340 And that is so offensive on so many levels.

00:00:29.300 But this kind of person goes to bed at night

00:00:31.360 feeling good about herself.

00:00:32.540 She thinks, yep, I've put the world to right.

00:00:35.840 I'm now at a point that if you have people like that

00:00:37.620 running the country,

00:00:38.700 every time you see someone who's not white or male or straight,

00:00:41.800 you know to some extent they're a diversity hire.

00:00:43.700 And it's actually damaging the mindsets of these people.

00:00:46.340 I never want to feel like a diversity hire

00:00:48.260 because it's so offensive.

00:00:49.380 I'd rather just go back home.

00:00:50.640 I'd rather go back home and struggle with everyone else

00:00:52.260 because that, for me, that's not meritocracy.

00:00:54.180 That's an insult to my hard work.

00:00:56.980 If you look at the single motherhood rate

00:00:58.760 in sort of black African communities, it's about 40%.

00:01:01.240 In black Caribbean communities, it's about 62%.

00:01:03.340 That's a 22% disparity.

00:01:05.620 I mean, the single motherhood rate

00:01:06.820 in the Indian communities is 6%, right?

00:01:09.020 How many sort of primarily Indian-based gangs

00:01:11.320 do you see around the country?

00:01:12.820 I mean, unless they're about to...

00:01:13.820 There's gangs of accountants.

00:01:15.120 Yeah, well, yeah.

00:01:15.960 Unless they're bursting out into song every two minutes.

00:01:17.740 Like, you just, you don't see that.

00:01:19.200 I have a huge respect for Indian

00:01:20.780 and sort of South Asian communities in this country

00:01:22.580 because I think they get it.

00:01:23.700 And I think sort of, even black African families

00:01:26.500 that are, you know, Christian or Muslim

00:01:28.240 but keep their family intact,

00:01:29.660 I don't think they understand

00:01:30.680 how much of a credit they are to the society

00:01:32.320 and how much really they are holding Britain together.

00:01:34.700 Hello and welcome to Trigonometry.

00:01:47.280 I'm Francis Foster.

00:01:48.540 I'm Constantine Kisson.

00:01:49.600 And this is a show for you

00:01:51.340 if you want honest conversations with fascinating people.

00:01:55.160 Our brilliant guest today is a writer,

00:01:57.100 broadcaster and political commentator, Esther Craker.

00:01:59.540 Welcome to Trigonometry.

00:02:00.500 Thank you for having me.

00:02:01.400 Yeah, it's great to have you on.

00:02:02.380 It's been a long time coming.

00:02:03.580 I know.

00:02:04.020 So we're big fans of yours.

00:02:06.120 You do great stuff.

00:02:07.340 For those people who don't know who you are,

00:02:09.060 tell everybody who are you,

00:02:10.400 how are you, where you are.

00:02:11.340 What has been your journey through life

00:02:12.580 that brings you to be sitting here talking to us?

00:02:14.680 Well, I'm, well, I'm Esther.

00:02:17.960 I'm a writer and a broadcaster,

00:02:19.960 but I'm also someone who makes a lot of noise on Twitter.

00:02:22.720 That's probably why you see me.

00:02:23.940 I'll get into these moments

00:02:25.140 where I have to rant about something

00:02:26.720 and that gets me in a lot of trouble.

00:02:28.320 But I moved to the UK when I was 14 from Ghana

00:02:31.720 and it was mostly just for an education.

00:02:34.460 I was here throughout secondary school and university.

00:02:37.620 I studied politics and French at the University of Bristol.

00:02:40.120 And I just started working after uni,

00:02:42.640 got a normal job,

00:02:43.440 but I was always very politically conscious.

00:02:45.040 It was something I was very passionate about.

00:02:46.160 I debated all through school and uni.

00:02:48.080 So I was always the kind of person

00:02:49.280 that liked to sort of engage with people intellectually.

00:02:51.880 And how I do what I do now,

00:02:53.400 I got involved with a student grassroots organization

00:02:56.660 called Turning Point UK,

00:02:57.760 which is the UK version of Turning Point US.

00:02:59.940 And it was very much focused on kind of

00:03:01.520 having some sort of conservative outlet

00:03:03.140 for students and young people,

00:03:04.500 because I obviously, you know,

00:03:05.620 in higher education, that's not really a thing.

00:03:07.940 And so I started doing videos for them.

00:03:09.800 I started doing interviews.

00:03:12.080 And I just,

00:03:14.240 I felt like I had to be part of a conversation

00:03:15.940 because I noticed things had shifted,

00:03:17.740 you know, from when I moved here in 2010.

00:03:18.980 And I never felt like my race was now a political statement

00:03:22.900 to sort of post Brexit, BLM, all that.

00:03:26.360 And I felt like, wow, being black is now,

00:03:28.520 I have responsibilities.

00:03:30.220 And I just think this is very weird, right?

00:03:33.160 Because I have other responsibilities.

00:03:33.980 I'm trying to live my life.

00:03:35.700 So, but it was something I was very passionate about.

00:03:37.440 I mean, I worked in sales after school,

00:03:39.200 so after uni.

00:03:40.400 So I would, you know,

00:03:41.160 be making 70, 80 call calls a day

00:03:42.620 and then I'll just run and go

00:03:43.440 and do a Turning Point video or do interviews.

00:03:45.560 So it was very much,

00:03:46.380 I was never really in it for anything

00:03:47.780 other than just pure passion.

00:03:49.760 And that kind of snowballed.

00:03:51.000 So I thought I was tweeting at the wall

00:03:52.380 and then people started paying attention.

00:03:54.140 But that's basically how it happened.

00:03:56.460 I think one of the moments that I realised

00:03:58.420 things needed to sort of shift was

00:04:00.200 I was, I had a friend at uni that,

00:04:03.460 and, you know, I was really proud of getting to Bristol.

00:04:05.720 Like when my mum dropped me off,

00:04:06.720 she was like, ha, you know, she got three A's.

00:04:08.400 And I was like, mum, you're embarrassing me.

00:04:10.100 But I wasn't, I was like really happy.

00:04:11.860 And I was like, you know, I've worked really hard.

00:04:14.160 I'm very aware that people back home

00:04:16.260 don't have the same opportunities that I have.

00:04:17.620 So I have to work really hard here

00:04:19.280 and make something of myself

00:04:20.220 because I've been given the opportunity,

00:04:22.220 which in and of itself is a blessing.

00:04:23.980 And I had a friend say to me,

00:04:25.980 don't you get offended

00:04:26.580 when people really ask you where you're from?

00:04:28.680 And I'm like, do I look Welsh to anyone?

00:04:30.500 Like who looks at me and just thinks

00:04:31.540 this girl is like from the Scottish Highlands?

00:04:33.240 Clearly my ancestors come from a hot place.

00:04:36.240 But she thought I should have been offended.

00:04:38.220 And she was like, you know,

00:04:39.200 it must be really hard for you as a black woman.

00:04:40.760 And I was like, are you mad?

00:04:42.720 Do you know how much I've worked to get here?

00:04:44.760 Like, what do you mean?

00:04:45.700 Why would you automatically assume?

00:04:47.280 I'm assuming it was hard for you as well

00:04:48.820 because you had to study to get the grades

00:04:50.280 to, you know, be where you are.

00:04:52.800 I would never assume that was difficult for you

00:04:54.840 for whatever reason, right?

00:04:56.220 I just think, you know,

00:04:56.960 she just got down and got on with it.

00:04:58.600 So that kind of was one of my awakening moments.

00:05:03.380 I became more conscious to the fact

00:05:05.020 that people put certain things on me

00:05:07.400 just because of what they saw.

00:05:08.480 And I was like, that's a problem.

00:05:09.720 And we have a really weird relationship

00:05:14.720 with race in this country.

00:05:16.100 Yeah.

00:05:16.560 As someone who came from Ghana at the age of 14,

00:05:19.800 just explain to me and explain to us

00:05:22.320 and the viewer and the listener

00:05:23.120 why it's weird in this country.

00:05:24.920 Because sometimes it's difficult for us to grasp.

00:05:27.400 I think, I mean, it's even weirder in the US.

00:05:29.840 Every time, I actually,

00:05:30.560 the most racist abuse I get

00:05:31.600 are from some black Americans just abusing me,

00:05:34.020 just calling me all kinds of nigger and coon.

00:05:35.520 I'm like, wait, what?

00:05:37.120 I don't even know.

00:05:37.540 You know where we said you could say anything?

00:05:38.940 No, but I think in this country,

00:05:44.140 we don't really have a frank conversation

00:05:46.600 because we don't understand the stratifications

00:05:48.320 when it comes to sort of race and identity

00:05:49.900 and culture and class.

00:05:51.780 So for instance, I always have to point out

00:05:53.220 that sort of a black African

00:05:54.400 is different from a black Caribbean person.

00:05:57.360 And if you look at sort of statistics

00:05:59.000 with regard to education, housing,

00:06:01.120 all these sorts of things,

00:06:01.740 you can see clear disparities.

00:06:03.600 That should mean that you don't group everyone together.

00:06:06.400 I mean, I hate the term BAME, right?

00:06:08.240 But it should mean that if you're going

00:06:09.320 to have those conversations,

00:06:10.180 you should have an honest conversation

00:06:12.060 with the facts right in front of you.

00:06:13.920 Because I think the people

00:06:14.820 that try and engage in these conversations,

00:06:16.300 the vast majority really are not interested.

00:06:17.980 They're just trying to virtue signal and say,

00:06:19.900 oh, but you know,

00:06:20.640 you should acknowledge a black person's lack of privilege

00:06:23.000 or white privilege or whatever.

00:06:24.320 And I just think it's not that simple.

00:06:26.540 So when I moved here,

00:06:27.540 I didn't really,

00:06:28.900 I mean, I always say to the credit of the UK,

00:06:30.620 I was very comfortable.

00:06:31.840 I felt very welcome.

00:06:32.740 I never had any sort of instances of racism

00:06:34.700 or anything like that.

00:06:35.960 And I tell people that I don't say that

00:06:37.920 because I don't think there's not racism in the world.

00:06:39.480 I say that as someone who comes from a family

00:06:41.260 that's well-traveled.

00:06:41.940 My dad's been to Switzerland,

00:06:42.820 he's been to China,

00:06:43.540 he's been to Malaysia,

00:06:44.160 and my family's been all over the place.

00:06:45.600 And they would say the worst instances

00:06:47.460 of racism they face are places like China,

00:06:49.640 for instance.

00:06:50.640 We don't have those conversations.

00:06:52.460 So I always say that,

00:06:54.220 you know, the UK was very welcoming to me.

00:06:55.780 I really appreciated having come here

00:06:57.760 because I met people

00:06:58.740 that I wouldn't have otherwise met.

00:07:00.740 And I was never made to feel like,

00:07:02.960 you know, there was an impediment.

00:07:04.080 It just, they just said,

00:07:05.140 get down, get the work done,

00:07:06.340 and you will succeed.

00:07:07.720 And that attitude changed

00:07:09.500 around sort of 2016, 2017.

00:07:12.140 And I was like, this is weird.

00:07:14.640 I don't really like this

00:07:15.540 because I actually had a conversation

00:07:16.800 with my friend yesterday

00:07:17.600 and she's mixed race,

00:07:19.120 but she looks, you know, black.

00:07:20.760 And she was saying, you know,

00:07:21.840 I'm doing really well in my career,

00:07:23.020 but I'm constantly petrified

00:07:24.860 that I'm a diversity hire.

00:07:26.800 And I've had so many conversations like this

00:07:28.640 with people, you know, from my background.

00:07:30.660 And if you, when you know

00:07:32.260 that something about Africans

00:07:33.060 is we just, we just want to work.

00:07:34.540 We just want the opportunity

00:07:35.300 to prove ourselves.

00:07:36.280 That's it.

00:07:37.000 We're not obsessed with race

00:07:38.100 and all of that.

00:07:38.520 And that's not to say that,

00:07:39.860 you know, we don't know

00:07:40.560 whether racism exists or not,

00:07:41.900 but we understand the difference, right?

00:07:43.920 We're coming from a place

00:07:44.620 where people can't even dream

00:07:45.440 of the opportunity we have.

00:07:46.520 We just want to work

00:07:47.260 and we just want to prove ourselves.

00:07:48.880 And she was saying that

00:07:50.080 because she has that obsession,

00:07:51.560 now when she sees someone getting hired,

00:07:53.420 that's clearly a diversity hire.

00:07:55.200 She's even harsher on them.

00:07:56.360 She's like, ma'am,

00:07:57.180 don't leave your house with your bonnet on

00:07:58.660 for goodness sake, you know,

00:08:00.940 put on some clothes,

00:08:02.000 wear a dress well, you know,

00:08:03.080 because we're like, okay,

00:08:03.860 if this is going to be the case,

00:08:04.740 then don't make us look ridiculous.

00:08:06.160 But I don't even,

00:08:07.260 I don't think that's progress

00:08:08.440 because I was telling her,

00:08:09.660 I was like, you know,

00:08:10.560 I've had eye surgery before.

00:08:11.940 I didn't really care

00:08:12.980 that the person performing eye surgery

00:08:14.260 was a white man

00:08:14.920 or a Taiwanese woman.

00:08:16.720 I just wanted them to do a good job.

00:08:18.000 And I think people that push

00:08:19.000 these sort of diversity quotes

00:08:20.180 and all of that

00:08:20.580 don't have real problems in life

00:08:21.720 because when, you know,

00:08:23.740 it's shit hits the fan,

00:08:24.640 you don't care who's sort of behind the,

00:08:27.300 in the cockpit of a plane

00:08:28.540 that's about to crash, right?

00:08:29.960 You just want the best person

00:08:30.840 that can make sure you don't crash.

00:08:32.860 Well, that's why I really enjoy

00:08:33.940 your commentary, Esther,

00:08:34.800 because, you know,

00:08:35.760 Francis, obviously his background,

00:08:38.020 his family being from Venezuela,

00:08:39.420 me being first generation immigrant.

00:08:41.380 And when I look at what you say,

00:08:43.140 I don't think conservative

00:08:44.320 or left wing or whatever.

00:08:45.520 I just think you talk,

00:08:47.060 you just say a lot of the things

00:08:48.660 that most people think

00:08:50.000 that are quite common sense.

00:08:51.840 Yeah.

00:08:52.280 But you're allowed to say them

00:08:54.100 in a way most,

00:08:55.220 many people don't feel able to.

00:08:57.360 This is the thing.

00:08:58.100 Because you're a person

00:08:59.120 of global majority.

00:09:00.660 I'm a person of colour

00:09:01.860 as opposed to a person.

00:09:02.640 What is the opposite

00:09:03.380 of a person of colour?

00:09:04.180 A person of no colour?

00:09:05.020 Yeah.

00:09:05.660 I just, I, anyway.

00:09:06.960 A gammon.

00:09:07.680 Or a beige.

00:09:08.620 I don't know, transparent.

00:09:10.600 But I get that

00:09:11.520 and it makes me really sad

00:09:12.880 because I'm like,

00:09:13.540 why are you comfortable

00:09:14.280 being neutered in your own country?

00:09:15.920 But then I understand it as well

00:09:17.060 because, you know,

00:09:17.940 when they have families

00:09:18.580 that depend on them,

00:09:19.260 they have jobs, all of that,

00:09:20.200 they don't want to

00:09:20.860 sort of put their foot in it.

00:09:21.740 But I find it really funny

00:09:23.340 that people call me conservative.

00:09:24.320 I mean, I am.

00:09:25.140 I'm conservative here

00:09:26.160 and I'm liberal in Ghana.

00:09:27.200 Right.

00:09:27.520 Which is hilarious to me.

00:09:28.900 Like, my parents think,

00:09:30.060 oh, you know,

00:09:30.600 she's just as normal.

00:09:31.660 She's a bit, you know, lefty.

00:09:32.800 I'm really not.

00:09:34.240 I'm so just,

00:09:36.000 I don't care.

00:09:37.380 But that's interesting

00:09:38.940 that because I say things

00:09:40.220 that most people think

00:09:40.980 is just common sense.

00:09:41.760 I'm a super conservative,

00:09:43.400 super right wing.

00:09:44.280 And I am conservative

00:09:45.320 in some of my views,

00:09:46.240 but I just don't think,

00:09:47.780 I think to attribute

00:09:48.960 my social commentary

00:09:50.060 to just conservatism is weird

00:09:51.620 because most people,

00:09:52.800 I mean, my friend

00:09:53.280 I was talking about,

00:09:53.940 she's pretty left wing.

00:09:55.740 You know,

00:09:56.040 she thinks exactly the same.

00:09:57.180 She got,

00:09:57.500 she was at work the other day

00:09:58.660 and they were like,

00:09:59.640 babe, you know,

00:10:00.660 it's Black History Month

00:10:01.440 next month.

00:10:02.100 And she was like,

00:10:02.680 oh, for goodness sake.

00:10:04.340 And, you know,

00:10:04.920 she was just like,

00:10:05.780 oh, she expected it.

00:10:06.960 Right.

00:10:07.180 And it's like,

00:10:07.840 what now?

00:10:08.540 What do you want from me?

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00:10:17.580 My old wallet was massive.

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00:10:21.260 to the yard,

00:10:22.040 which was a huge distraction

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00:11:50.360 It's really interesting

00:11:51.740 because there's this

00:11:53.560 perception in this country

00:11:54.880 as well,

00:11:55.280 that if you're an ethnic

00:11:56.300 minority in this country,

00:11:58.120 you're going to be

00:11:59.240 liberal and left.

00:12:00.820 They can't seem to get

00:12:02.100 their head around the fact,

00:12:03.160 like my mum,

00:12:03.940 who is South American,

00:12:05.480 you know,

00:12:06.420 Christian,

00:12:07.260 conservative.

00:12:08.760 And they can't seem

00:12:10.300 to get their heads

00:12:10.980 around the fact

00:12:11.560 that maybe these people

00:12:13.060 think differently to them.

00:12:14.920 Because they're not interested.

00:12:15.840 They generally don't care.

00:12:17.100 I often say that

00:12:18.080 the most socially conservative

00:12:19.240 people in this country

00:12:20.120 are ethnic minorities,

00:12:20.980 but that's not a conversation

00:12:22.580 they're willing to have.

00:12:23.540 No question.

00:12:23.980 And, you know,

00:12:24.700 I even,

00:12:25.040 this is why I draw the difference

00:12:26.340 between black Africans

00:12:27.100 and sort of black Caribbeans

00:12:28.100 because I say,

00:12:28.660 you know,

00:12:28.860 if you look at the single

00:12:29.780 motherhood rate

00:12:30.580 in sort of black African

00:12:31.960 communities,

00:12:32.300 it's about 40%.

00:12:33.060 In black Caribbean communities,

00:12:34.260 it's about 62%.

00:12:35.180 That's a 22% disparity.

00:12:37.260 If you look at sort of

00:12:37.880 cultural sort of norms

00:12:39.960 in those communities,

00:12:40.620 they're different.

00:12:41.180 If you look at education attainment,

00:12:42.760 you know,

00:12:43.060 black Africans tend to do better

00:12:44.100 than black Caribbeans.

00:12:44.980 There's so many differences

00:12:46.660 within communities,

00:12:47.800 even sort of Indian communities

00:12:48.920 to Bangladeshi,

00:12:49.600 to Pakistani,

00:12:50.040 that if you really want

00:12:51.420 to have that conversation,

00:12:52.360 you need to acknowledge

00:12:52.960 those facts.

00:12:53.580 But people that,

00:12:54.540 you know,

00:12:55.200 are not interested,

00:12:56.020 but just want to virtue signal

00:12:56.980 and show that they're good people,

00:12:58.140 they just sort of belt the same,

00:12:59.600 oh,

00:12:59.840 if you're like Joe Biden,

00:13:01.020 if you don't vote for me,

00:13:01.660 you ain't black.

00:13:02.560 And I actually had this instance

00:13:04.460 which really,

00:13:05.180 really annoyed me.

00:13:06.120 And if you know me,

00:13:06.620 I don't get angry easily at all.

00:13:08.020 I'm like,

00:13:08.760 you know,

00:13:09.320 I'm a puppy.

00:13:10.540 But I had this lady

00:13:11.500 that I'd been on a show with before

00:13:13.740 and she's lovely.

00:13:14.900 And I didn't attribute,

00:13:16.180 when I met her,

00:13:16.660 any malice to her.

00:13:17.400 I didn't think,

00:13:17.780 and I don't attribute any malice

00:13:18.860 to anyone I have sort of conversations

00:13:20.120 or debates with

00:13:20.760 because maybe I'm naive,

00:13:21.920 but I don't think most people

00:13:22.880 want to blow up the earth

00:13:23.680 or are horrible.

00:13:25.220 But she said,

00:13:27.080 during the conservative leadership race,

00:13:28.880 which unfortunately is still going on,

00:13:31.320 that...

00:13:31.520 By the time this goes out,

00:13:32.500 it will be over.

00:13:33.320 We already know who's going to win.

00:13:34.540 Yeah, exactly.

00:13:35.100 But anyway.

00:13:35.700 But she said that,

00:13:37.580 she was talking about

00:13:38.920 sort of Kemi Badenoch

00:13:39.760 and all those people

00:13:40.300 and she said,

00:13:40.700 it's not real diversity

00:13:41.760 if she's using her power

00:13:43.220 to oppress people.

00:13:44.100 Some shit, right?

00:13:45.900 And I was like,

00:13:46.820 why not give me

00:13:47.400 a good Negro handbook then, ma'am?

00:13:49.380 And she was like,

00:13:49.960 you know that's not what I meant.

00:13:51.060 I was like,

00:13:51.240 no, no, no, no, no.

00:13:52.360 That is so offensive,

00:13:53.600 it's not even funny.

00:13:54.460 There are people in this country

00:13:55.500 that don't care

00:13:56.220 what Kemi Badenoch looks like,

00:13:57.340 but they want this woman

00:13:58.000 to be prime minister.

00:13:58.780 She's made it to the point

00:13:59.580 where she can even contest the leadership.

00:14:01.160 That in and of itself

00:14:01.940 is an achievement.

00:14:02.600 But you,

00:14:03.100 a white woman,

00:14:03.700 are happy to say

00:14:04.420 that it's not real diversity

00:14:05.340 because she doesn't think

00:14:06.040 the things that you think

00:14:06.760 she should think.

00:14:07.700 And that is so offensive

00:14:08.960 on so many levels.

00:14:09.840 But this kind of person

00:14:11.020 goes to bed at night

00:14:11.780 feeling good about herself.

00:14:12.960 She thinks,

00:14:13.700 yep, I've, you know,

00:14:14.640 I've put the world to right.

00:14:15.780 And I'm just like,

00:14:16.680 you complete cow.

00:14:17.920 How dare you?

00:14:19.180 And if you know anything

00:14:19.980 about sort of Nigerians

00:14:21.060 in particular,

00:14:21.840 they're very,

00:14:22.540 they're very proud of themselves

00:14:23.920 and they work really hard.

00:14:25.100 They really,

00:14:25.660 and I really admire them for that.

00:14:27.520 And I just think someone,

00:14:29.100 her parents are probably

00:14:30.180 extremely proud of her

00:14:31.100 because they think

00:14:31.460 she's worked really hard.

00:14:32.300 She's gotten to the point

00:14:32.980 of notoriety

00:14:34.160 where people in this country

00:14:35.120 know of who she is

00:14:35.920 and admire her politics

00:14:36.820 to the point that they want

00:14:37.440 her to lead this country.

00:14:38.460 And you have this dumb cow

00:14:40.100 and she is a lovely lady,

00:14:41.580 but in that moment

00:14:42.380 she was a complete bitch.

00:14:43.560 To saying that it's not real diversity

00:14:45.380 because she doesn't think

00:14:46.460 the things that you should think.

00:14:47.500 And you have to really

00:14:48.260 think about that.

00:14:49.020 There's no way you can get around

00:14:50.140 the fact that that's just

00:14:51.080 racist and horrible.

00:14:52.720 And that really,

00:14:53.860 that really,

00:14:54.500 really did my head in

00:14:55.260 because I'm now at a point

00:14:56.960 that if you have people like that

00:14:58.120 running the country,

00:14:59.240 every time you see someone

00:15:00.240 who's not white

00:15:00.960 or male or straight,

00:15:02.320 you know to some extent

00:15:03.180 they're a diversity hire

00:15:04.080 and it's actually damaging

00:15:05.240 the mindsets of these people.

00:15:06.760 I never want to feel

00:15:07.780 like a diversity hire

00:15:08.740 because it's so offensive.

00:15:09.880 I'd rather just go back home.

00:15:10.840 I'd rather go back home

00:15:11.840 and struggle with everyone else

00:15:12.760 because that, for me,

00:15:13.640 that's not meritocracy.

00:15:14.640 That's an insult

00:15:16.000 to my hard work.

00:15:17.820 No, I totally get it, Esther.

00:15:18.920 And you bring up

00:15:19.780 the Tory election thing

00:15:22.740 and, you know,

00:15:23.380 a list trust is going to win.

00:15:24.500 Yeah.

00:15:24.780 Everybody knows this.

00:15:25.760 And I was saying throughout

00:15:27.980 when Boris Johnson

00:15:29.000 was having all his

00:15:30.040 different problems

00:15:31.100 and party gate

00:15:31.980 and he said this

00:15:32.980 and did this

00:15:33.580 and did that

00:15:34.060 and whatever,

00:15:34.380 I was like,

00:15:35.180 I think he should resign

00:15:37.000 but I don't want him to.

00:15:38.300 And what I meant by that

00:15:39.180 is the stuff he had done

00:15:40.740 is the sort of stuff

00:15:41.880 that a prime minister

00:15:42.760 should resign over

00:15:43.740 cumulatively.

00:15:45.300 But I always said

00:15:46.520 you're not going to get

00:15:47.800 somebody who's better.

00:15:49.840 And you've made that point.

00:15:51.120 I think you turned,

00:15:52.160 you know,

00:15:52.400 you were critical of Boris

00:15:53.400 pretty early on.

00:15:54.280 Yeah.

00:15:54.640 I think more like

00:15:55.340 sort of last year,

00:15:56.720 early last year.

00:15:57.300 But equally,

00:15:58.540 we've ended up

00:15:59.220 in a position where,

00:16:00.600 I mean,

00:16:00.980 if the three candidates

00:16:02.020 were on the ballot,

00:16:03.140 I think you'd probably

00:16:04.400 go with Boris.

00:16:05.660 Probably, yeah.

00:16:06.440 I mean,

00:16:06.880 there is a section

00:16:07.960 of the Conservative Party

00:16:08.820 that actually want him back

00:16:09.660 because they just think

00:16:10.280 what's happened is ridiculous.

00:16:11.900 And I've often said

00:16:13.280 he's sort of the victim of,

00:16:14.940 he is the architect

00:16:16.080 of his own demise.

00:16:17.100 Yeah, completely.

00:16:17.860 Because he had everything.

00:16:18.760 He literally had everything going.

00:16:20.580 But one of,

00:16:22.360 who was it?

00:16:23.520 Gove?

00:16:24.340 Gove.

00:16:24.880 Yeah,

00:16:25.120 he was one of the few people

00:16:27.020 very early on

00:16:27.680 that had noticed

00:16:28.700 Boris's sort of

00:16:29.580 character defects

00:16:30.320 and said,

00:16:31.240 this is not the man

00:16:31.980 you want to be,

00:16:32.480 Prime Minister.

00:16:33.200 He's too big picture.

00:16:34.140 He's not good with detail.

00:16:35.220 He's all over the place.

00:16:36.480 And he will take himself down.

00:16:37.980 And he saw it early on.

00:16:38.900 And for the reputation

00:16:40.320 that Gove got in Westminster

00:16:41.980 for being a snake

00:16:42.780 and not loyal and stuff,

00:16:43.760 but he was spot on.

00:16:44.900 And you never really hear people

00:16:46.100 kind of defending Michael Gove

00:16:47.720 because it's not very fashionable.

00:16:49.180 But he was right.

00:16:50.660 And it's,

00:16:51.360 I said from the beginning,

00:16:53.320 Boris's strategy was off.

00:16:54.440 Because one,

00:16:54.960 he surrounded himself

00:16:55.920 with sycophantic

00:16:56.640 halfwits.

00:16:57.780 And two,

00:16:58.880 he didn't have a real vision

00:17:01.000 for this country

00:17:01.640 at the level of detail.

00:17:03.000 Yeah,

00:17:03.280 get Brexit done.

00:17:04.520 Yeah,

00:17:04.740 get Brexit,

00:17:05.240 level up.

00:17:05.660 What the hell is level up?

00:17:06.740 Where?

00:17:07.620 And,

00:17:08.020 you know,

00:17:08.680 the people that were supposed

00:17:09.760 to get that job done

00:17:10.540 were,

00:17:11.120 sorry,

00:17:11.560 they were not up to scratch.

00:17:12.700 I mean,

00:17:12.920 the fact that Nadine Dorries

00:17:13.960 is in our cabinet

00:17:14.640 will forever be the biggest joke

00:17:15.920 of British history.

00:17:17.200 I mean,

00:17:17.720 it's ridiculous.

00:17:18.520 But he took himself down

00:17:20.240 because he didn't understand

00:17:21.500 how politics works.

00:17:22.140 But I also think

00:17:22.780 it's a blessing in disguise

00:17:23.760 because I've long

00:17:24.700 been very disillusioned

00:17:26.260 by our political system.

00:17:27.620 I think that there's so many,

00:17:29.620 there's so much wrong

00:17:30.360 with the political party system

00:17:31.580 that we really need

00:17:33.100 a bit more diversity.

00:17:34.400 We don't know

00:17:34.660 what the Lib Dems stand for.

00:17:35.960 Sir Ed Davey

00:17:36.580 is a complete joke.

00:17:37.880 The Labour Party,

00:17:38.760 I mean,

00:17:38.980 I understand what Keir Starmer

00:17:39.880 is trying to do now

00:17:40.540 because he's accepted

00:17:41.220 he's never going to be

00:17:41.860 that big bombastic personality.

00:17:43.780 So he's kind of going

00:17:44.860 down a John Major strategy

00:17:46.760 and making the party

00:17:47.640 more palatable

00:17:48.240 as opposed to him

00:17:51.120 being a standout character

00:17:52.220 like Boris was.

00:17:53.300 And the Conservative Party,

00:17:55.040 they're, I think,

00:17:55.900 trying to rein it back

00:17:56.860 and just focus

00:17:58.220 on their core voters

00:17:59.780 and the people they can win

00:18:01.000 and not really focus

00:18:02.000 on like a catch-all strategy

00:18:03.580 which wouldn't work.

00:18:04.600 And this is what happens

00:18:05.560 when you actually try

00:18:06.320 and understand

00:18:06.780 the nature of politics.

00:18:07.920 You don't think people

00:18:08.600 in the Red Wall

00:18:09.080 traditionally would vote

00:18:09.860 for Tory anyway.

00:18:10.600 So you're not going to try

00:18:11.460 and sort of appeal

00:18:12.720 to them in that way.

00:18:13.440 And it's just common sense politics.

00:18:15.000 But I think we really need

00:18:16.920 a change in this country.

00:18:17.940 I think our political system

00:18:19.020 is a bit broken.

00:18:20.220 I think there are a lot of people,

00:18:21.260 especially young people,

00:18:21.960 that just don't care anymore

00:18:22.940 because what's the point?

00:18:24.220 I mean, two-thirds of seats

00:18:25.260 in this country

00:18:26.920 are safe seats anyway.

00:18:28.160 So really,

00:18:28.960 if you wanted to make a change,

00:18:30.000 how are you going to do it?

00:18:31.540 And the party system

00:18:32.320 is not the mechanism

00:18:32.960 to do it now.

00:18:33.840 I agree with you.

00:18:34.560 The problem you're going to get, though,

00:18:35.860 is I don't think

00:18:36.560 the party system will change

00:18:37.800 because the two major parties

00:18:39.260 have a stake in not changing.

00:18:41.560 Yeah, they have a vested interest

00:18:42.680 in keeping it that way.

00:18:43.960 And so if we focus

00:18:45.040 on where we are

00:18:45.880 and what we actually have,

00:18:47.540 you've got rid of Boris Johnson

00:18:49.620 and you're going to replace him

00:18:51.180 with Liz Truss.

00:18:52.560 Yeah.

00:18:53.800 No, I mean,

00:18:54.780 no offense to Liz Truss,

00:18:55.940 but, you know,

00:18:56.840 I don't think

00:18:57.500 that in the Kremlin

00:18:58.360 they're shaking in their boot.

00:19:00.480 Do you know what I mean?

00:19:00.940 Did you see that?

00:19:01.640 She did an interview

00:19:02.380 and she got like

00:19:02.980 Russian geography wrong.

00:19:04.140 I just thought, oh.

00:19:04.920 When she was foreign secretary,

00:19:06.360 by the way.

00:19:06.700 Yes.

00:19:07.120 Right.

00:19:07.300 Anyway, but I said,

00:19:09.580 and actually I was about

00:19:10.280 to do a show

00:19:10.740 and my dad texted me saying,

00:19:11.880 do you think Rishi

00:19:12.320 can become prime minister?

00:19:13.180 I was like,

00:19:13.780 no, dad,

00:19:15.040 why are you messaging me this?

00:19:16.080 And he was like,

00:19:16.280 oh, I think Liz Truss is ugly.

00:19:17.360 I don't want her to become prime minister.

00:19:18.140 I was like,

00:19:18.420 you can't say

00:19:20.560 you don't want someone

00:19:21.260 to be prime minister

00:19:22.000 because you think she's a minger.

00:19:23.440 That's not how this works.

00:19:25.540 But you know what?

00:19:26.820 Liz Truss needs to accept

00:19:28.220 a few things.

00:19:29.080 One,

00:19:29.440 I think the first thing

00:19:30.120 she needs to do

00:19:30.620 is level with this country.

00:19:31.660 She needs to give a big speech

00:19:32.660 where she levels.

00:19:33.380 Look,

00:19:33.820 this energy crisis

00:19:34.500 is not going away anytime soon.

00:19:35.500 This is not a six month problem.

00:19:37.220 This is sort of

00:19:38.080 at least a three to five year problem.

00:19:39.260 Well, you're right.

00:19:40.000 Sorry to interrupt

00:19:40.860 just very quickly.

00:19:41.880 We were watching back

00:19:43.160 an interview we did

00:19:43.920 with Nigel Farage

00:19:44.920 earlier this year.

00:19:46.360 That's what we do

00:19:46.920 with our spare time.

00:19:48.240 Naturally.

00:19:49.180 He's lovely, actually.

00:19:50.520 He's a really funny guy

00:19:51.420 to interview.

00:19:52.340 So he's a great person

00:19:54.180 to interview.

00:19:54.680 Absolutely.

00:19:55.240 And one of the things,

00:19:56.000 it was recorded

00:19:57.140 like a week before

00:19:58.920 the war in Ukraine,

00:19:59.760 I think.

00:20:00.140 It was just as it was

00:20:00.900 about to happen.

00:20:01.320 It was a prophetic.

00:20:02.280 And he was saying

00:20:03.340 people don't know

00:20:05.060 what's coming.

00:20:05.780 And he was talking

00:20:06.460 about the energy bills.

00:20:07.520 This was before

00:20:08.160 the war in Ukraine.

00:20:09.020 So this attempt

00:20:10.120 to pretend

00:20:10.740 that this is all

00:20:11.440 about Ukraine,

00:20:12.480 complete nonsense.

00:20:13.260 Anyway, carry on.

00:20:13.480 No, but it's true.

00:20:14.520 And I mean,

00:20:14.780 there's a clip

00:20:15.560 of Trump going viral

00:20:16.860 when he warned

00:20:17.740 that Germany's

00:20:18.980 dependence on

00:20:20.580 Russian energy

00:20:21.720 is a problem.

00:20:22.940 And he was laughed

00:20:23.880 out of the room.

00:20:24.340 I was like,

00:20:24.580 well, he may be orange,

00:20:26.160 but he does say

00:20:26.760 some things are on point

00:20:27.800 sometimes.

00:20:29.040 What was I even saying?

00:20:29.840 Yeah, but Liz Truss

00:20:30.520 needs to level

00:20:30.960 with the country.

00:20:31.540 That's the first thing.

00:20:32.000 The energy crisis

00:20:32.640 isn't going away.

00:20:33.540 But it's not going away.

00:20:34.620 And this is the thing.

00:20:35.220 She needs to be very honest

00:20:36.520 with this country.

00:20:37.180 And I know an honest politician,

00:20:38.480 that's a paradox.

00:20:39.980 But it's true.

00:20:40.860 And she also,

00:20:41.500 her team are core

00:20:42.580 because one of the biggest

00:20:43.600 failings of Boris

00:20:44.300 was his team.

00:20:45.340 He didn't have anyone

00:20:46.080 around him

00:20:46.600 that really kept him

00:20:47.300 in check,

00:20:47.680 that were honest with him,

00:20:48.440 that had the capabilities

00:20:49.800 that you needed to.

00:20:50.680 Someone like Gove

00:20:51.400 should have been

00:20:51.840 Boris's right-hand man.

00:20:52.860 And I know that sounds weird

00:20:53.740 because he didn't even think

00:20:54.640 he should have been

00:20:55.020 prime minister in the first place.

00:20:56.240 But if he had the humility

00:20:57.340 to temper himself

00:20:58.300 and not go down

00:20:59.180 the Chris Whitty route

00:21:00.160 or silencing people

00:21:01.420 that had questions

00:21:02.100 over lockdown

00:21:02.540 and all of that,

00:21:03.320 he would have still been here

00:21:04.400 with all his flaws.

00:21:07.260 So her team is also

00:21:08.340 really important in this trust.

00:21:09.400 But I also think

00:21:10.020 she needs to go back

00:21:11.220 to the basics.

00:21:12.280 She's from a very liberal

00:21:13.680 wing of conservatism.

00:21:15.180 So she's not the traditional,

00:21:16.280 I mean,

00:21:16.460 they don't really talk

00:21:17.080 about social conservatism,

00:21:18.200 right?

00:21:18.280 It's not in fashion.

00:21:19.500 You don't hear

00:21:20.280 any conservative politician

00:21:21.580 other than Jacob Rees-Mong

00:21:22.940 but that's because

00:21:23.300 he has like six kids.

00:21:24.300 You never really hear them

00:21:25.140 talking about,

00:21:25.900 you know,

00:21:26.120 get married,

00:21:26.760 stay married,

00:21:27.300 have kids,

00:21:28.260 you know,

00:21:28.440 have a traditional

00:21:29.200 family structure.

00:21:30.240 Gender rules

00:21:30.620 are not necessarily

00:21:31.180 a bad thing.

00:21:32.400 You know,

00:21:33.180 actual things that keep

00:21:34.240 the social fabric

00:21:34.820 of this country together,

00:21:35.880 you never really hear

00:21:36.540 them talking about it.

00:21:37.260 And I think actually

00:21:38.060 that's a mistake

00:21:38.760 because you're probably

00:21:39.840 going to get a lot of votes

00:21:40.760 from sort of traditional

00:21:41.560 Indian communities

00:21:42.260 by doing that

00:21:42.920 because you're talking

00:21:43.780 about things

00:21:44.200 that no one's talking about

00:21:44.980 but that's really fundamental

00:21:46.280 to this country.

00:21:47.720 So that's,

00:21:48.260 I think that's kind of

00:21:49.060 where she needs to go.

00:21:49.660 She needs to move,

00:21:51.000 she needs to have

00:21:51.440 social conservatism

00:21:52.160 on the agenda

00:21:52.720 but she also needs

00:21:53.980 to have,

00:21:56.020 I suppose,

00:21:56.560 a real commitment

00:21:57.440 to actual conservatism,

00:21:58.980 sort of fiscal discipline.

00:21:59.900 We need to know

00:22:00.220 what that looks like

00:22:00.760 because what I suspect

00:22:01.580 is going to happen

00:22:02.340 is she's going to unveil

00:22:03.320 the largest sort of

00:22:04.380 assistance package

00:22:05.060 this country's ever seen

00:22:05.940 and my generation,

00:22:07.600 people at least 25 and over,

00:22:09.480 25 and,

00:22:10.140 between 25 and 50

00:22:11.060 are going to be like,

00:22:11.640 ah,

00:22:12.100 I'm going to pay for this.

00:22:13.620 How exactly is this going to work?

00:22:15.060 Because I don't really want

00:22:15.660 to see my taxes going up

00:22:16.660 and if you act crazy,

00:22:17.720 I will move.

00:22:18.960 And that's a problem as well

00:22:20.080 because we're not having

00:22:20.680 enough kids

00:22:21.180 and people my age

00:22:22.780 should be having kids,

00:22:23.700 should be having a home

00:22:24.980 to put the kids in

00:22:25.940 and we're not really,

00:22:27.600 we don't really see

00:22:28.400 how that's possible.

00:22:29.860 So I think she really

00:22:31.120 has a big task ahead of her.

00:22:32.460 I'm not going to set

00:22:33.240 the bar too high

00:22:33.940 because I think that's a problem

00:22:34.880 we have in our politics.

00:22:36.140 The state has expanded so much

00:22:37.620 that there's so many things

00:22:38.640 that comes under

00:22:39.100 the state's remit

00:22:39.700 that you don't expect

00:22:40.360 them to do it properly

00:22:41.100 but it's fodder for people

00:22:42.860 to continually whinge

00:22:43.820 and bitch and whine.

00:22:45.300 And it's like,

00:22:45.740 look,

00:22:46.040 I don't really care

00:22:47.020 whether you think

00:22:48.340 pavements should have

00:22:49.580 rainbow flags painted on them

00:22:50.840 but I would actually like

00:22:52.100 for burglary to be solved

00:22:53.300 or for people to stop

00:22:54.860 stabbing each other.

00:22:55.580 I'd actually like basic policing

00:22:56.960 of this country to work.

00:22:57.940 You're right,

00:22:58.320 Esther,

00:22:58.500 you're a social conservative.

00:23:00.660 It's not even that,

00:23:02.080 I mean,

00:23:02.680 the solicitor strike

00:23:03.640 is in a few days,

00:23:04.920 the criminal barrister strike

00:23:05.940 and I just think

00:23:06.420 this is a disaster, right?

00:23:07.640 And this is happening

00:23:08.360 in a country

00:23:09.680 that's been under

00:23:10.260 conservative leadership

00:23:10.960 for 12 years.

00:23:11.940 How could you possibly

00:23:12.900 let this arm

00:23:13.860 of our justice system

00:23:15.580 fall to the point where,

00:23:16.740 you know,

00:23:16.920 I think since 2006,

00:23:18.640 criminal barristers,

00:23:19.520 they've seen a 26% decrease

00:23:21.520 in real pay.

00:23:23.100 That is a disaster, right?

00:23:24.960 Because these are people

00:23:25.640 that are defending

00:23:26.180 the people that don't have

00:23:26.820 the means to defend themselves.

00:23:27.660 That's a critical part

00:23:28.460 of our judicial system

00:23:29.520 and they've just let that

00:23:30.320 fall by the wayside

00:23:31.100 and I think this is unimaginable

00:23:34.000 and that's since 2006.

00:23:35.240 So we're talking

00:23:35.820 sort of mid-Blair era as well.

00:23:37.840 This is not just something

00:23:38.500 on the conservatives

00:23:39.040 but they've kind of seen it

00:23:40.220 and just kicked the can

00:23:41.280 down the road.

00:23:42.820 Esther,

00:23:43.300 and what does it mean

00:23:43.900 to you to be a conservative?

00:23:45.480 What does that actually mean?

00:23:46.980 Well,

00:23:47.180 it depends where I am.

00:23:48.600 If I was in the US,

00:23:49.920 I'd be like,

00:23:50.240 I'm probably bang in the middle

00:23:51.340 because I probably,

00:23:53.100 you know,

00:23:53.440 don't want to be walking around

00:23:54.860 with guns in Walmart,

00:23:56.180 which I've seen,

00:23:56.860 but I'm also like,

00:23:57.520 not obviously a leftist crazy.

00:23:58.760 I think being a conservative

00:23:59.880 means having some sort

00:24:02.760 of commitment

00:24:03.220 to a decent society

00:24:06.380 and understanding

00:24:07.420 what makes a society work.

00:24:08.900 So I think when I talk

00:24:09.580 about conservatism,

00:24:10.500 I don't necessarily

00:24:11.080 just talk about economic policy,

00:24:12.640 which I think I'm

00:24:13.560 probably more libertarian on

00:24:15.260 than strictly conservative.

00:24:17.440 For me,

00:24:18.000 it's more about family

00:24:18.780 and social structure

00:24:19.580 because I think

00:24:20.400 that's so important

00:24:21.160 and I don't think

00:24:21.640 we talk about that enough.

00:24:22.560 Like,

00:24:22.720 I was having a conversation

00:24:23.520 with someone who was saying,

00:24:24.680 oh,

00:24:24.780 I can't get a mortgage

00:24:25.480 and I can't buy a home

00:24:26.360 and I said something crazy.

00:24:27.580 I was like,

00:24:27.640 have you thought

00:24:27.960 about getting married?

00:24:28.660 He's like,

00:24:28.920 well,

00:24:29.040 why would I do that?

00:24:29.700 I was like,

00:24:29.820 well,

00:24:30.000 it's two incomes.

00:24:30.960 You know,

00:24:31.440 your wagon is stitched theirs.

00:24:33.060 They're legally obligated

00:24:33.820 to like you.

00:24:36.220 That might be one solution.

00:24:37.820 But I just think,

00:24:38.560 you know,

00:24:38.720 there are loads of single people,

00:24:40.160 single young people

00:24:40.800 that are working in London

00:24:41.600 that are wondering

00:24:42.060 how they're going to get

00:24:42.620 on the housing market.

00:24:43.420 But that's really

00:24:44.080 a very tangible solution.

00:24:45.520 But there's so many mechanisms

00:24:46.520 that go around with that.

00:24:47.720 I find it really funny,

00:24:48.680 fascinating,

00:24:50.000 the rise of the red pill

00:24:51.120 and the manosphere space

00:24:52.200 and stuff.

00:24:53.160 And I look at it

00:24:54.320 because I was talking

00:24:54.800 to my friend later.

00:24:55.440 I was like,

00:24:55.680 babe,

00:24:56.320 I grew up in Ghana.

00:24:58.140 I've had a front row seat

00:24:59.160 to these sort of

00:25:00.240 intersexual dynamics

00:25:01.080 since I was born.

00:25:03.140 But these are the things...

00:25:04.080 Wait, how do you mean?

00:25:05.540 I mean,

00:25:06.680 anyone with common sense

00:25:07.720 knows that

00:25:08.400 like a lot of the things

00:25:09.160 that they're saying

00:25:09.560 is obviously true.

00:25:10.580 Like men liking younger women,

00:25:11.780 it's because they're misogynists.

00:25:12.860 I was like,

00:25:13.080 look,

00:25:13.380 let me tell you a conversation.

00:25:15.480 Let me tell you

00:25:16.120 a conversation I had.

00:25:17.000 So I was talking

00:25:17.620 to this guy who's,

00:25:18.740 I think he's a Mason.

00:25:19.500 He works with my dad

00:25:20.560 and he's Muslim.

00:25:22.080 He's from the northern part

00:25:22.920 of Ghana.

00:25:23.840 And he was saying,

00:25:24.400 oh, you know,

00:25:25.020 Kukwa,

00:25:25.360 that's my Ghana name.

00:25:26.400 Kukwa,

00:25:26.820 I'm looking for a second wife.

00:25:27.960 I was like,

00:25:28.100 oh, why?

00:25:28.620 It's the current wife doing it.

00:25:29.420 I said,

00:25:29.520 no, you know,

00:25:29.900 I just want to add

00:25:30.520 the second wife.

00:25:30.940 Okay, cool.

00:25:31.420 What are your criteria?

00:25:32.320 And he's like,

00:25:32.860 you know,

00:25:33.040 I want someone,

00:25:33.620 she has to be at least 30

00:25:34.560 and I want her to have

00:25:35.640 at least just one child.

00:25:36.640 And I said,

00:25:36.880 oh, okay, why?

00:25:37.560 I was like,

00:25:37.760 because I don't have

00:25:38.240 that much money

00:25:39.060 for her bride price.

00:25:40.060 So he knows

00:25:41.220 that he can't afford

00:25:42.860 a premium,

00:25:44.020 like 20 something,

00:25:45.120 hot,

00:25:45.660 single,

00:25:46.260 young,

00:25:46.680 childless woman.

00:25:47.460 Do you know what I mean?

00:25:48.400 But this is basic

00:25:49.620 intersexual dynamics.

00:25:50.580 And he was like,

00:25:50.980 but she has to be attractive.

00:25:52.000 She can't have a big stomach.

00:25:53.040 He was telling me

00:25:53.700 all his criteria.

00:25:54.860 But I'm like,

00:25:55.680 and the Red Bull space

00:25:56.660 talks about all these things.

00:25:57.660 I'm like,

00:25:58.180 dude,

00:25:58.740 everyone knows this.

00:26:00.020 Everyone knows

00:26:00.720 if you're younger,

00:26:01.860 hotter,

00:26:02.900 sort of more feminine,

00:26:03.980 you come from a good family,

00:26:05.220 you're not a headache

00:26:05.920 to be around

00:26:06.400 and stuff like that.

00:26:07.120 Really,

00:26:07.700 you're...

00:26:09.020 The bride price goes up.

00:26:10.240 Exactly.

00:26:10.820 The bride price

00:26:11.460 is the version of

00:26:12.060 market value or whatever.

00:26:13.260 But it's true.

00:26:14.560 And I can't believe

00:26:15.800 how many videos

00:26:16.660 that are online

00:26:17.740 where guys are effectively

00:26:18.740 learning how to be men

00:26:19.660 off the internet.

00:26:20.860 And then me and my brother

00:26:22.020 are just there like,

00:26:23.140 really?

00:26:24.360 Are you joking?

00:26:26.120 Like,

00:26:26.680 men having...

00:26:27.560 Men wanting younger,

00:26:28.920 hotter women

00:26:29.380 or having more than

00:26:30.760 like a side chick

00:26:31.380 or whatever.

00:26:31.840 And it's just like,

00:26:32.240 oh, no.

00:26:32.900 And I'm like,

00:26:33.380 babe.

00:26:34.480 Do you think as a society

00:26:36.180 we've just gone nuts

00:26:37.280 when you compare...

00:26:39.060 I'm really upset.

00:26:40.480 I get really upset

00:26:41.080 when I see

00:26:41.600 like very intelligent people

00:26:42.640 talking about gender pronouns.

00:26:44.060 I'm not going to lie.

00:26:44.900 It really upsets me

00:26:45.660 because I just think

00:26:46.100 society is going to look back

00:26:47.120 20 years from now

00:26:47.840 and think we should have

00:26:48.760 employed these brilliant minds

00:26:50.080 to something better

00:26:50.940 like furthering humanity

00:26:51.940 instead of going on talk shows

00:26:53.460 and arguing

00:26:53.920 what the hell a woman is.

00:26:55.380 And I call my dad

00:26:56.320 and he's like,

00:26:56.560 what's going on there?

00:26:57.520 And I'm like,

00:26:58.080 they don't know

00:26:58.640 what a woman is.

00:26:59.580 It's crazy.

00:27:00.860 I'm like,

00:27:01.220 can I come home?

00:27:02.200 This is absolute insanity.

00:27:04.520 And it's just,

00:27:05.240 I think we are really

00:27:06.720 sort of sacrificing

00:27:07.540 brilliant minds

00:27:08.460 at the altar

00:27:08.880 of this bullshit.

00:27:09.520 Broadway's smash hit

00:27:11.920 The Neil Diamond Musical

00:27:13.240 A Beautiful Noise

00:27:14.600 is coming to Toronto.

00:27:16.360 The true story

00:27:17.120 of a kid from Brooklyn

00:27:18.180 destined for something more

00:27:19.720 featuring all the songs

00:27:20.860 you love

00:27:21.480 including America,

00:27:22.940 Forever in Blue Jeans

00:27:23.940 and Sweet Caroline.

00:27:25.620 Like Jersey Boys

00:27:26.580 and Beautiful,

00:27:27.440 the next musical mega hit

00:27:28.980 is here.

00:27:29.700 The Neil Diamond Musical

00:27:31.000 A Beautiful Noise.

00:27:32.500 April 28th

00:27:33.420 through June 7th,

00:27:34.440 2026.

00:27:35.520 The Princess of Wales Theatre.

00:27:37.440 Get tickets at

00:27:38.140 Mirvish.com

00:27:39.280 It's an interesting point.

00:27:43.060 You talk about gender roles

00:27:44.180 and stuff like that

00:27:44.880 and I almost always agree

00:27:46.140 with the stuff

00:27:46.680 that you say about it.

00:27:47.520 Almost always.

00:27:48.220 Almost always, yeah.

00:27:48.980 Because you make

00:27:49.540 a tremendous amount of sense.

00:27:51.060 Yet here you are,

00:27:52.480 a confident young woman

00:27:53.680 who earns a living,

00:27:55.220 who's not married

00:27:56.000 as far as I know, right?

00:27:57.900 So how do,

00:27:59.880 and there'll be lots of

00:28:00.720 other young women like you.

00:28:01.980 Some of them

00:28:02.600 will be watching this.

00:28:03.420 Probably not many.

00:28:04.280 No, not many.

00:28:05.000 But we've seen

00:28:05.520 the demographics, mate.

00:28:06.600 Really?

00:28:06.960 What's the demographics split?

00:28:08.140 Well, see,

00:28:09.240 this is where...

00:28:10.280 White, male, and angry.

00:28:11.300 No.

00:28:11.520 Okay.

00:28:11.920 No, he's not.

00:28:13.060 He's such a fucking idiot.

00:28:16.460 Face palm.

00:28:18.440 Unbelievable.

00:28:19.180 No, the thing is,

00:28:20.000 I don't trust online statistics

00:28:21.460 because women often

00:28:22.540 don't want to identify

00:28:23.420 themselves online.

00:28:24.560 So, but it skews

00:28:25.900 towards the male side,

00:28:27.060 definitely.

00:28:27.920 And that's YouTube in general.

00:28:29.060 YouTube in general, right?

00:28:29.660 But anyway,

00:28:30.980 so there'll be other young women

00:28:32.360 out there.

00:28:33.600 Yeah.

00:28:33.920 I suspect there are out there,

00:28:35.560 right?

00:28:35.980 You're sounding so much

00:28:36.960 like a dad.

00:28:37.900 Well, I am a dad, mate.

00:28:38.820 Yeah.

00:28:39.080 That's what I am.

00:28:40.000 Who are in your position as well.

00:28:42.620 They want to have a career.

00:28:44.180 They want to make a good living,

00:28:45.440 like all of that.

00:28:46.740 So, hasn't the world changed?

00:28:50.080 The world has changed,

00:28:51.460 but I think

00:28:52.120 your personal life

00:28:54.620 is like your mini kingdom, right?

00:28:56.220 I always said that a home

00:28:57.420 with a mother and father,

00:28:59.120 kids,

00:28:59.400 it's a small kingdom, right?

00:29:00.460 A man's house is his castle

00:29:01.440 and I genuinely believe that.

00:29:03.020 And I look to my parents

00:29:04.840 because one,

00:29:05.740 there's no one I admire

00:29:06.880 more than my dad, basically.

00:29:08.780 And I think,

00:29:09.660 I really hold a lot of,

00:29:13.080 I think there's a lot of value

00:29:14.140 in the wisdom of the past.

00:29:15.260 So, looking to previous generations

00:29:16.440 and seeing what they got right.

00:29:17.960 I don't necessarily think

00:29:19.300 women being in the workforce

00:29:20.180 is a bad thing.

00:29:21.040 I think the scale

00:29:21.620 at which was done

00:29:22.760 really stagnated wages

00:29:24.180 and I think it was just

00:29:24.820 to benefit big corporations.

00:29:27.160 And I do think

00:29:28.240 that is a problem,

00:29:29.000 but I always say

00:29:30.840 I'm not necessarily a career girl,

00:29:31.900 but I would get bored

00:29:32.680 just not doing anything else

00:29:34.040 other than just childcare.

00:29:35.200 Like I would read

00:29:36.200 and do stuff

00:29:36.760 that stimulated my mind,

00:29:38.240 but that's not necessarily,

00:29:39.440 that doesn't mean

00:29:39.880 that I have sort of career ambitions.

00:29:41.640 Like I want to be a CEO.

00:29:42.680 I'm not built for that.

00:29:44.100 Everyone who knows me knows

00:29:45.200 Esther gets really excited

00:29:46.540 when she discovers

00:29:47.160 a new recipe

00:29:47.680 she wants to try on you.

00:29:48.820 That is my thing.

00:29:49.820 I love like cooking

00:29:50.840 and taking care of people.

00:29:52.220 And I just think

00:29:53.000 most women are just built.

00:29:54.840 We flourish when we have

00:29:56.340 good, healthy,

00:29:57.320 functioning relationships.

00:29:58.300 I think that's what

00:29:58.880 we really want.

00:29:59.900 I don't think we necessarily

00:30:00.820 want to be,

00:30:01.260 most women don't necessarily

00:30:02.080 want to be CEO

00:30:02.700 or have the stress

00:30:03.420 of those high-flying caress.

00:30:04.380 I'm sorry.

00:30:05.200 I can't do all that

00:30:06.020 and look hot.

00:30:06.640 That's just too much work.

00:30:07.840 No, that's just too much work.

00:30:10.060 No, I'm sorry.

00:30:11.940 But I think, you know,

00:30:12.800 the issue,

00:30:14.120 I think there's a lot of,

00:30:15.280 the issues on both sides.

00:30:16.220 I think men and women

00:30:16.900 these days have a lot of,

00:30:19.040 they don't understand

00:30:19.920 what each other want

00:30:20.660 and I don't think

00:30:21.500 they have the humility

00:30:22.300 to look for it.

00:30:23.760 So I often say like

00:30:24.900 with my ex,

00:30:25.620 I'll be like,

00:30:26.340 what was it like being with me?

00:30:27.680 And, you know,

00:30:28.160 I generally want to know

00:30:29.240 and they have nothing

00:30:29.880 but positive stuff to say.

00:30:30.800 So I don't sit there

00:30:31.300 and freak out and be like,

00:30:32.180 oh God, I'm horrible.

00:30:33.340 I'm crazy.

00:30:33.940 I'm just, you know,

00:30:34.840 and I talked to my dad as well.

00:30:35.800 I was like, you know,

00:30:36.160 it just hasn't happened yet

00:30:37.020 and you don't want to,

00:30:39.000 who you marry,

00:30:39.820 especially in this day and age

00:30:40.560 where men and women

00:30:41.280 don't need each other

00:30:42.100 in the economic sense,

00:30:43.000 the strict economic sense

00:30:43.820 where like the man

00:30:44.440 had to go out and work

00:30:45.440 and the woman had no choice

00:30:46.680 but to be married to him.

00:30:48.040 You form,

00:30:48.620 your bond

00:30:49.340 and the nature

00:30:50.060 of your relationship evolves.

00:30:51.220 But that's not a bad thing.

00:30:51.940 That's actually better

00:30:52.540 because you know,

00:30:52.920 people are choosing

00:30:53.460 to stay together

00:30:54.180 as opposed to having

00:30:55.080 no choice

00:30:56.640 but to be coupled together.

00:30:58.240 My dad also says,

00:30:59.020 choose someone expensive.

00:31:02.540 Expensive.

00:31:03.160 Expensive.

00:31:03.560 He was like,

00:31:03.780 I don't bring a broke man

00:31:04.560 to my house.

00:31:04.980 He's actually said that

00:31:07.420 to me and my brother.

00:31:09.280 So his analysis

00:31:10.720 is very interesting.

00:31:11.940 But I just think

00:31:12.700 it takes a lot of humility

00:31:13.900 on both sides

00:31:14.820 and kind of looking

00:31:15.680 at yourself objectively

00:31:17.400 which most people can't do.

00:31:18.920 I often say,

00:31:19.700 surround yourself with people

00:31:20.500 that can be brutally honest

00:31:21.540 with you.

00:31:21.860 My friends can roast me for filth

00:31:23.040 and they thoroughly enjoy it.

00:31:24.100 But I know it's not coming

00:31:25.120 from a place of malice

00:31:26.140 or from a place

00:31:27.100 of just negativity

00:31:28.160 or jealousy.

00:31:29.820 And yeah,

00:31:30.520 I do think,

00:31:31.320 you know,

00:31:31.580 dynamics have changed

00:31:32.460 but it's,

00:31:33.080 if you are constantly

00:31:33.920 working on being better

00:31:34.940 and surrounding yourself

00:31:35.780 with better people,

00:31:36.840 better caliber people,

00:31:37.780 you can't fail.

00:31:38.620 It's impossible.

00:31:39.540 It's an interesting point

00:31:40.400 you made particularly

00:31:41.160 at the beginning

00:31:41.900 of that statement there,

00:31:43.820 Esther,

00:31:43.960 because I think

00:31:45.080 what you're hinting at

00:31:46.280 really is something,

00:31:47.580 like my wife

00:31:48.240 is a big fan

00:31:48.920 of John Gray

00:31:49.600 who wrote

00:31:50.180 Men Are From Mars,

00:31:50.860 Women Are From Venus

00:31:51.900 and we've had him

00:31:52.880 on the show

00:31:53.380 and one of the things

00:31:56.120 that she sort of learned

00:31:57.220 over the time

00:31:58.160 that we've been together

00:31:59.520 is she can do many things

00:32:02.420 but there are certain things

00:32:04.120 that make her happy

00:32:04.920 and certain things

00:32:05.560 that don't.

00:32:06.260 And I'm starting to see

00:32:08.460 like we had Louise Perry

00:32:09.600 on the show

00:32:10.300 to talk about it.

00:32:11.640 She tweeted this clip today

00:32:13.120 where it's like an actor,

00:32:15.280 I think,

00:32:15.720 there's like a pink

00:32:17.900 or a blue-haired woman

00:32:19.220 from 2022

00:32:20.480 talking to her

00:32:22.160 in the 1950s

00:32:23.660 and telling her

00:32:24.420 like what her brilliant

00:32:25.340 future life will be like.

00:32:27.040 And it's like

00:32:27.800 you're going to go to work

00:32:28.680 and do the home cooking

00:32:29.860 and the cleaning

00:32:30.540 and the...

00:32:31.040 Oh no.

00:32:31.600 And basically...

00:32:33.280 Oh, I think not.

00:32:34.340 Right.

00:32:35.000 And I think

00:32:36.260 quite a lot of people,

00:32:37.840 particularly women,

00:32:38.680 are starting to realise

00:32:39.860 that this idea

00:32:41.260 of having everything

00:32:42.320 really wasn't...

00:32:44.300 At the same time.

00:32:45.560 At the same time

00:32:46.440 really wasn't

00:32:47.480 what it was made out to be.

00:32:48.360 Yeah, it's a scam.

00:32:49.200 We've been scammed

00:32:49.980 but this is the thing.

00:32:50.920 I think, again,

00:32:51.460 I say this is a uniquely

00:32:52.300 Western phenomenon

00:32:53.100 because I think

00:32:54.320 when I go to other parts

00:32:55.040 of the world

00:32:55.320 we're just very real

00:32:56.140 with ourselves

00:32:56.740 and we're just very honest.

00:32:58.280 I don't have...

00:32:58.840 I mean,

00:32:59.380 if you look at my friendship group,

00:33:00.520 all my friends

00:33:01.180 kind of are similar to me,

00:33:02.600 sort of privately educated.

00:33:03.620 They're not...

00:33:04.280 They're from all over the place.

00:33:05.080 Japanese, Kenyan, Indian.

00:33:07.040 But our family structure,

00:33:08.400 our family setup,

00:33:09.000 if you look at our lives,

00:33:09.680 they look exactly the same.

00:33:11.080 Right?

00:33:11.260 And we're exactly

00:33:12.120 the same kinds of people

00:33:13.480 in terms of

00:33:14.220 how we see our future.

00:33:15.940 One of my best friends,

00:33:16.700 she has three degrees

00:33:17.380 from Warwick, Bristol,

00:33:18.620 very educated.

00:33:20.720 You would see her

00:33:21.380 as the quintessentially career girl.

00:33:22.760 Oh no,

00:33:23.340 she's happy to...

00:33:24.560 When she cooks for me,

00:33:25.160 she's really happy.

00:33:26.000 She has this little

00:33:26.500 white puff dog.

00:33:28.060 You know,

00:33:28.240 she loves being in a relationship.

00:33:29.220 She loves taking care of people.

00:33:30.780 It doesn't matter

00:33:31.440 sort of how far you go up

00:33:32.800 the sort of education hierarchy

00:33:34.080 or the attainment hierarchy.

00:33:36.480 Women fundamentally,

00:33:37.880 across the board,

00:33:38.540 generally are the same.

00:33:39.860 Right?

00:33:40.040 We value our relationships more.

00:33:41.840 We value sort of

00:33:42.860 building with a man more

00:33:44.460 and letting a man lead

00:33:45.960 in certain aspects.

00:33:47.180 My brother's only

00:33:47.660 three years younger than me.

00:33:48.680 When we go out together,

00:33:49.620 he just naturally takes the lead.

00:33:51.240 And I'm technically

00:33:51.840 his older sister,

00:33:52.460 but I'm like,

00:33:53.260 you know,

00:33:53.680 what do you want to have for dinner?

00:33:54.900 Or...

00:33:55.860 We just fall into this role

00:33:57.780 because I know he's more competent.

00:33:59.220 I know he's calmer.

00:33:59.840 I know if he's six foot,

00:34:01.420 if I can't reach something,

00:34:02.300 he'll just get it.

00:34:03.020 I don't do any DIY.

00:34:04.240 I fundamentally refuse.

00:34:05.400 I don't take out the bins.

00:34:06.620 I don't do any of that.

00:34:07.780 Right?

00:34:07.900 And we weren't taught that.

00:34:08.760 We grew up in Ghana

00:34:10.620 and then we moved here.

00:34:11.500 But it's just something

00:34:12.080 that we've naturally fallen into.

00:34:13.400 I always say

00:34:14.000 when I see someone,

00:34:14.820 a guy with his pronouns

00:34:16.120 or his bio,

00:34:16.840 or he says he's a feminist,

00:34:18.000 I'm like, bye.

00:34:19.040 I'm just not interested

00:34:20.660 because I'm not...

00:34:22.760 The kind of woman I am

00:34:24.620 will not fit you fundamentally.

00:34:27.060 And I often say,

00:34:28.700 and my friends say this as well,

00:34:29.800 Leah gets a little shit

00:34:30.900 for saying this,

00:34:31.440 but I don't want to be

00:34:33.280 in a leadership position

00:34:34.080 in my relationship.

00:34:34.940 I just don't want to.

00:34:36.140 I don't care for it.

00:34:37.120 I love being in a support world

00:34:38.080 because I think I'm best suited

00:34:39.660 to do that.

00:34:40.420 I would love to be a mother.

00:34:41.360 I love sort of taking care of a home

00:34:42.840 and I buy fresh flowers

00:34:44.280 for the house every week.

00:34:45.160 It's ridiculous.

00:34:45.900 It's stupid.

00:34:46.440 You come and see these bouquets

00:34:48.040 in front of my house,

00:34:48.800 but it makes me happy.

00:34:50.000 And I love that.

00:34:50.880 And I love how it brightens a room

00:34:52.980 and lifts the ambience in a place.

00:34:55.840 That's just how I am.

00:34:56.940 And I think most women

00:34:57.920 are built that way.

00:34:58.540 That's why the beauty industry

00:34:59.440 is a trillion dollar industry, right?

00:35:01.580 Beauty and sort of appearance

00:35:03.380 and relationships

00:35:04.080 and all these things

00:35:04.580 matter to us women

00:35:05.360 a lot more than men.

00:35:07.300 Why is it so controversial

00:35:08.340 to say that?

00:35:09.340 Why is it a lot of people

00:35:11.040 don't want to admit this,

00:35:12.480 particularly women?

00:35:13.340 Like if you were a man

00:35:14.540 saying what you just said,

00:35:15.680 you'd literally be Andrew Tate.

00:35:17.420 Yeah.

00:35:17.820 Literally.

00:35:18.060 Oh yeah, I would be, yeah.

00:35:19.240 You know what I mean?

00:35:20.040 People ask me what my opinion of him is

00:35:21.700 and I say, oh yeah, he's great.

00:35:22.620 He's really nice.

00:35:23.180 And I know people that know him

00:35:24.180 and they've only said

00:35:25.040 positive things about him.

00:35:26.000 And I just think,

00:35:26.480 I don't hang around with idiots.

00:35:27.480 Everyone I keep in my circle,

00:35:28.780 I really respect

00:35:29.880 and I really hold the opinion

00:35:31.620 in high regard.

00:35:32.460 And they're like, he's great.

00:35:33.220 He's lovely.

00:35:33.760 He's polite.

00:35:34.420 He's, you know.

00:35:35.660 But you know what I mean?

00:35:36.380 The way society

00:35:37.220 would view a man saying that.

00:35:38.460 Because they're not real

00:35:39.140 with themselves.

00:35:39.860 This is the thing.

00:35:40.760 And the people that have dominated

00:35:42.100 the conversation

00:35:42.820 are people from a very sort of narrow,

00:35:45.780 with a very narrow viewpoint

00:35:46.820 on this issue.

00:35:47.940 It's obvious.

00:35:48.660 It is very obvious.

00:35:49.860 Anyone, even parents

00:35:50.980 can tell the difference

00:35:52.000 between their son and their daughter.

00:35:53.140 My room has been pink

00:35:54.320 since I could remember.

00:35:55.780 Everyone comes into my room

00:35:56.760 and is like, everything is pink.

00:35:57.900 I'm like, yeah, my mom decorated it.

00:35:59.180 The curtains are pink.

00:36:00.300 The bed, I only have pink bed sheets.

00:36:02.160 The walls are pink.

00:36:03.960 And it's always been,

00:36:05.040 I have princess stickers.

00:36:06.140 Even when I go home to Ghana,

00:36:07.120 they're still there.

00:36:07.980 Disney princess stickers.

00:36:09.640 But people just don't want

00:36:11.580 to be real with themselves.

00:36:12.240 And I think the conversation

00:36:13.060 has been so taken over

00:36:14.920 by people of a very narrow viewpoint.

00:36:17.320 No woman wants a very effeminate man

00:36:19.700 who doesn't like to lead.

00:36:20.660 No man wants to feel like

00:36:21.680 a bitch in his own home.

00:36:23.080 You know, and even to this day,

00:36:24.460 and I don't think it's oppressive, right?

00:36:25.680 I'll ask my mom,

00:36:26.400 oh, can we do this?

00:36:27.100 And she's like, okay,

00:36:27.640 let me ask your dad.

00:36:28.720 That's what the hierarchy looks like.

00:36:30.360 Like he's always worked.

00:36:31.180 She's always been the support system.

00:36:32.240 She doesn't feel oppressed.

00:36:32.960 My mom is nothing.

00:36:33.800 She's definitely not a pushover.

00:36:36.240 But the people that have dominated

00:36:38.120 the conversation like,

00:36:39.100 oh, women don't want to do this.

00:36:40.220 You know what women don't want to do?

00:36:41.180 Women don't want to work

00:36:42.040 60 hours a week

00:36:42.840 and then come home,

00:36:43.460 have to take care of the kids

00:36:44.280 and then still have to sleep

00:36:45.440 with their husband at night.

00:36:46.300 We don't want to do that.

00:36:47.080 I'm sorry.

00:36:47.720 I want to look hot.

00:36:48.760 I want to shit on my husband.

00:36:50.780 I want to have kids.

00:36:51.600 I want to make sure my family

00:36:52.560 and whole my life.

00:36:53.220 And then everything extra

00:36:54.000 is a bonus.

00:36:54.640 It's a blessing.

00:36:55.480 I want to make sure my community

00:36:56.780 and me and my husband's kingdom

00:36:58.240 is together

00:36:58.940 before I do all the extras

00:37:00.320 and call myself a boss bitch

00:37:02.100 or whatever.

00:37:02.820 But isn't the problem though

00:37:06.140 is that that isn't really affordable

00:37:08.880 for the vast majority of women?

00:37:10.460 I think it is.

00:37:12.040 I think when you say affordable

00:37:13.420 as in like getting a house

00:37:14.320 and kids.

00:37:14.760 Getting a house,

00:37:15.460 getting kids.

00:37:16.020 Kids are expensive.

00:37:16.900 Housing is...

00:37:17.840 People have made kids expensive.

00:37:19.960 Either that

00:37:20.640 or the way I grew up

00:37:21.500 has influenced me a lot

00:37:22.860 because if I have a kid,

00:37:24.940 first of all,

00:37:26.240 you're eating...

00:37:27.060 Okay, let me not.

00:37:27.920 Let me measure the house.

00:37:29.200 I don't think kids need

00:37:30.380 to be expensive, right?

00:37:31.620 In my background,

00:37:33.720 you know,

00:37:33.940 it's very normal

00:37:34.420 that when you have kids

00:37:35.260 after they grow to a certain age,

00:37:36.420 you give the kids clothes

00:37:37.180 to your cousin

00:37:37.760 who's just had a kid

00:37:38.600 or whatever.

00:37:39.800 In terms of...

00:37:40.300 You share resources

00:37:41.000 because it's a kid, right?

00:37:42.360 I don't want to see

00:37:43.320 any Burberry tags

00:37:44.300 on a kid's clothes.

00:37:45.120 It's Primark,

00:37:45.700 Primark and Poundland.

00:37:48.120 Really,

00:37:48.680 kids cost,

00:37:49.300 I think maintenance

00:37:49.880 should be as minimal

00:37:50.760 as possible

00:37:51.240 because one,

00:37:51.680 they'll grow up,

00:37:52.080 two,

00:37:52.180 they won't remember it.

00:37:52.920 And if you want to spend

00:37:53.520 anything on kids,

00:37:54.300 it should be more experiences.

00:37:55.040 I should have married,

00:37:55.840 estimate.

00:37:57.100 Honestly.

00:37:57.620 Because my son

00:37:58.340 is pretty expensive right now,

00:37:59.820 let me tell you.

00:38:00.440 I would wear...

00:38:00.880 I don't care.

00:38:01.360 I mean,

00:38:01.540 I like nice stuff.

00:38:02.280 I'm not going to lie.

00:38:02.820 I would wear like

00:38:03.540 the nicer stuff

00:38:04.300 and carry like

00:38:04.800 a three grand bag

00:38:05.940 or whatever.

00:38:06.380 My kid is wearing Primark

00:38:07.440 to the day they die.

00:38:08.720 And I can...

00:38:09.520 I will attest to that

00:38:10.540 because probably up

00:38:11.780 until a couple of years ago,

00:38:12.560 I was wearing Primark.

00:38:13.600 If my parents paid for it,

00:38:14.940 it was either M&S on sale

00:38:16.240 or Primark.

00:38:17.200 And my mum would be like,

00:38:17.700 you don't need anything else.

00:38:18.980 Like,

00:38:19.160 what do you fundamentally need?

00:38:20.140 We feed you,

00:38:20.800 we clothe you,

00:38:21.440 your education is important

00:38:25.040 but I think also the structure,

00:38:26.660 the way my parents structured

00:38:27.480 the home is,

00:38:28.500 they are at the top.

00:38:29.340 It's a pyramid.

00:38:30.040 If they and their marriage

00:38:31.200 is not solid,

00:38:31.900 if their kingdom is not solid,

00:38:33.260 the kids will suffer.

00:38:34.460 So they need to make sure

00:38:35.120 that they're okay,

00:38:35.760 their relationship is up top.

00:38:36.860 And then the kids benefit

00:38:37.740 from that structure.

00:38:38.760 It doesn't have to come from money.

00:38:39.940 I mean,

00:38:40.340 if my parents went,

00:38:41.700 and I don't want to picture this

00:38:42.560 because I'd make me want

00:38:43.080 to boil my eyes in bleach,

00:38:44.080 but they went skinny to pink

00:38:44.920 and Bora Bora.

00:38:45.920 I'm happy for them now

00:38:47.000 because I know that

00:38:47.600 they were doing it

00:38:48.200 to keep the house together

00:38:49.080 because they're nourishing

00:38:50.460 and they're fortifying

00:38:51.220 their marriage

00:38:51.680 for the benefit of everyone

00:38:52.640 and not just us,

00:38:53.360 the kids,

00:38:53.700 but the community at large,

00:38:54.920 the small kingdoms

00:38:55.660 within the big kingdom,

00:38:57.300 which is society.

00:38:58.420 And that's broken up now

00:38:59.820 because we don't really

00:39:00.700 want to talk about that.

00:39:01.480 We don't really want

00:39:02.380 to talk about what men want.

00:39:03.260 And I think men have got

00:39:03.920 a raw deal more than women,

00:39:05.880 actually.

00:39:06.280 Why?

00:39:07.000 I went on my brother,

00:39:07.960 because my brother,

00:39:08.480 he's in a relationship now,

00:39:09.320 but I went on his dating app

00:39:10.300 and I was like,

00:39:10.720 whew,

00:39:11.320 this is sad.

00:39:13.320 He's got one,

00:39:13.980 one's like two stone overweight.

00:39:16.080 You have one with blue hair.

00:39:17.260 Someone's got a,

00:39:17.860 like a bull ring.

00:39:18.720 You know that thing they use?

00:39:19.780 Okay.

00:39:20.020 I don't know why

00:39:20.500 that's a fashion now,

00:39:21.240 but when I was a kid,

00:39:22.860 the only cows had that thing

00:39:23.840 in their nose.

00:39:24.120 You know,

00:39:24.640 I always have the same reaction.

00:39:26.220 Yeah,

00:39:26.480 I'm just like,

00:39:27.240 for what reason?

00:39:28.260 Like why?

00:39:28.660 My cousin had,

00:39:29.200 I was like,

00:39:29.400 put that shit in your face.

00:39:30.980 She's not allowed

00:39:31.540 to wear around me.

00:39:32.660 But I was looking at

00:39:33.780 sort of the girls going

00:39:35.260 and I was like,

00:39:35.820 wow.

00:39:36.100 And then like 1920,

00:39:37.860 you're beautiful.

00:39:38.800 You're intelligent.

00:39:39.660 Speak well.

00:39:40.280 You come from a good home.

00:39:41.360 You're blessed.

00:39:42.020 You have food on.

00:39:42.860 You go to the fridge

00:39:43.860 and there's food in there,

00:39:44.620 right?

00:39:44.740 You're not starving.

00:39:45.520 You live in a home.

00:39:46.120 You live in the UK.

00:39:46.860 You live in the fifth

00:39:47.400 most developed country

00:39:48.100 in the world.

00:39:48.900 Be effervescent.

00:39:49.880 Be happy.

00:39:50.380 Be light.

00:39:51.380 You know,

00:39:51.540 don't be a raging bitch

00:39:52.500 constantly complaining

00:39:53.200 about microaggressions.

00:39:54.900 But I just think,

00:39:56.520 ew,

00:39:57.400 like why?

00:39:58.300 But I don't have that

00:39:59.340 necessarily much of a problem

00:40:00.240 because one,

00:40:00.740 I date older,

00:40:01.540 I'll be honest.

00:40:02.000 But also I think men,

00:40:03.440 when they're clued up,

00:40:04.220 they get clued up properly.

00:40:05.240 Like they know

00:40:05.800 not to do certain things

00:40:06.980 because it's just unattractive

00:40:08.120 and they have a harder time.

00:40:09.040 So I think they have

00:40:09.600 to invest more in themselves

00:40:10.800 to even attract any women

00:40:12.220 as opposed to women

00:40:13.000 that can be,

00:40:14.220 look like a complete wildebeest

00:40:15.360 and there's still someone

00:40:16.360 that wants to sleep with her.

00:40:18.100 Hey Francis,

00:40:19.440 if you were a member

00:40:20.420 of the public,

00:40:21.180 would you like the opportunity

00:40:22.320 to ask incredible guests

00:40:24.280 like Bill Burr,

00:40:25.600 Jordan Peterson,

00:40:26.820 Sam Harris,

00:40:27.860 Adam Carolla,

00:40:28.720 Brett Weinstein,

00:40:29.820 John Barnes,

00:40:30.960 Douglas Murray,

00:40:32.100 Nigel Farage

00:40:32.900 and Lionel Shriver

00:40:33.840 your own questions?

00:40:35.200 You bet I would.

00:40:36.600 And what do you think

00:40:37.680 the best way

00:40:38.460 to do that would be?

00:40:39.780 Er,

00:40:40.060 probably stalking, mate.

00:40:41.300 You'd have to corner them

00:40:42.460 in the supermarket,

00:40:44.140 probably run near like

00:40:45.320 the sort of frozen food aisles

00:40:46.960 and then just bark questions

00:40:48.800 at them before they can escape.

00:40:50.880 Not the American ones

00:40:52.080 as they have guns.

00:40:53.600 And you'd have to be

00:40:54.300 extra careful with the females

00:40:55.720 as that's how I got in trouble

00:40:57.640 last time.

00:40:59.040 Can you really imagine

00:40:59.720 you're going to get Douglas Murray

00:41:00.820 near the frozen food aisle?

00:41:02.220 If you want to ask

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00:42:33.780 See you there, guys.

00:42:36.820 Esther,

00:42:37.200 do you think we have

00:42:37.760 a fundamental problem

00:42:38.760 in our society

00:42:39.540 where we're not honest

00:42:41.080 with one another?

00:42:41.900 Yes.

00:42:42.340 And I think the people

00:42:43.040 that are monopolising

00:42:43.700 the conversation

00:42:44.280 have too much power

00:42:46.300 and I think

00:42:47.080 they make it easy

00:42:48.260 for people

00:42:49.700 to be

00:42:50.300 villainised.

00:42:52.520 Right.

00:42:52.720 That's the problem.

00:42:53.720 What I'm saying now

00:42:54.400 shouldn't be controversial.

00:42:55.100 A lot of what Anu Tate says

00:42:56.120 shouldn't be controversial.

00:42:57.240 A lot of what people

00:42:57.820 in my kind of space,

00:42:59.500 I suppose,

00:43:00.120 conservative, liberal,

00:43:01.120 the basics,

00:43:01.920 fundamentals about

00:43:02.520 intersexual dynamics,

00:43:03.580 it shouldn't be controversial.

00:43:05.200 But we're out here

00:43:06.620 having debates,

00:43:07.880 news articles saying,

00:43:09.000 do parents need

00:43:10.080 to get married

00:43:10.660 or do children

00:43:12.080 need to be

00:43:13.200 with married parents

00:43:13.980 for the success

00:43:15.120 of the home?

00:43:15.500 I'm like,

00:43:15.760 well, yes.

00:43:16.740 Why do you even need

00:43:17.560 to ask that question?

00:43:18.360 But it's kind of trying

00:43:19.040 to normalise this idea

00:43:19.920 that anything goes.

00:43:21.220 Right.

00:43:21.460 And the evidence

00:43:22.140 is very clear

00:43:23.060 on what the consequences

00:43:24.960 are for children

00:43:25.740 growing up

00:43:26.420 outside a family home

00:43:27.800 versus two parents,

00:43:30.040 what the consequences are.

00:43:31.780 But we've got to a point,

00:43:33.060 like I think Francis

00:43:34.000 is getting at,

00:43:34.680 where being honest

00:43:35.500 about these issues

00:43:36.240 is, like you say,

00:43:38.360 liable to get you punished,

00:43:40.600 right?

00:43:40.920 Now we're not just

00:43:41.740 being dishonest,

00:43:42.380 we're lying.

00:43:43.260 So there will be,

00:43:44.320 you have,

00:43:45.020 there's this section online

00:43:46.300 that really does my head in

00:43:47.340 and they're like,

00:43:47.660 oh, they became a delinquent

00:43:49.280 because they were poor.

00:43:50.560 And I really fundamentally

00:43:51.440 disagree with that

00:43:52.080 because I don't think

00:43:52.780 being lower, middle,

00:43:55.300 or whatever,

00:43:55.880 not being wealthy

00:43:56.640 means that you're going

00:43:57.760 to go down

00:43:58.140 a life of crime.

00:43:58.720 Because I was like,

00:43:59.060 well, if that was the case,

00:43:59.900 then most of the undeveloped,

00:44:01.040 well, the developing world

00:44:02.580 would be ungovernable,

00:44:03.900 right?

00:44:04.560 In Ghana, for instance,

00:44:05.240 I feel very safe, right?

00:44:06.360 People are not very wealthy,

00:44:07.500 but there's a family structure there

00:44:08.800 because there's

00:44:09.520 an authority hierarchy.

00:44:10.880 You know,

00:44:11.180 if you go and steal from someone

00:44:12.140 and someone finds out

00:44:12.860 your dad is going to

00:44:13.520 whoop your ass,

00:44:14.780 like he will beat you up

00:44:16.060 and you will be disciplined,

00:44:17.440 right?

00:44:17.880 The social fabric is such

00:44:19.320 that you instill morals

00:44:20.660 in people without having

00:44:21.560 it come down to,

00:44:22.740 oh, you know,

00:44:23.320 it's because that person

00:44:24.720 is poor,

00:44:26.300 not the fact that

00:44:27.040 they didn't come from

00:44:27.500 a two-parent household

00:44:28.180 with a solid authority structure

00:44:29.400 that teaches them

00:44:30.220 right from wrong.

00:44:30.980 That is more valuable

00:44:31.980 than investing in the police,

00:44:33.500 frankly.

00:44:34.400 And it's more valuable

00:44:35.020 over generations.

00:44:35.660 Such a good point.

00:44:36.700 See,

00:44:37.060 we obviously have covered

00:44:38.640 the issue of,

00:44:39.380 you know,

00:44:39.840 absent fathers

00:44:40.860 and all of that

00:44:41.760 quite a bit.

00:44:42.800 But the way you put it there

00:44:44.220 is actually makes

00:44:46.000 a tremendous amount of sense,

00:44:47.680 which is,

00:44:48.500 you know,

00:44:50.300 if you are able

00:44:51.740 to guide society

00:44:52.900 towards having

00:44:53.720 more family stability,

00:44:55.120 then the amount of money

00:44:56.100 you then end up having

00:44:57.100 to spend on the

00:44:57.780 criminal justice system,

00:44:59.040 the police,

00:45:00.080 the prisons,

00:45:01.320 the...

00:45:01.700 Foster care,

00:45:02.180 all of that.

00:45:02.600 It just,

00:45:02.920 it tanks.

00:45:03.820 And,

00:45:04.280 but this,

00:45:04.640 this is the thing.

00:45:05.200 So I often say that

00:45:06.380 one of the reasons

00:45:07.220 why I behave the way

00:45:08.500 I do in public

00:45:08.960 and I carry myself

00:45:09.600 the way I do

00:45:09.940 and my brother does

00:45:10.620 is because

00:45:11.040 it's not just me.

00:45:12.440 I have a family

00:45:13.220 that are saying,

00:45:14.480 Kukwa,

00:45:14.720 you're representing us.

00:45:15.560 Do you know what I mean?

00:45:16.440 I come from this home.

00:45:17.640 I come from a home.

00:45:18.780 Behave like you come

00:45:19.480 from a home,

00:45:19.940 like you were raised properly.

00:45:21.200 So for instance,

00:45:21.720 I was like,

00:45:22.120 you know,

00:45:22.400 I didn't go to carnival

00:45:23.180 because I was doing some work,

00:45:24.500 but I was like,

00:45:24.760 if I go to carnival

00:45:25.440 and someone tries to bend me

00:45:26.560 over and dagger me,

00:45:27.380 hell no.

00:45:27.980 Ew.

00:45:28.440 Why am I going to have

00:45:29.180 a picture of me being daggered

00:45:30.240 and like a rug floating

00:45:31.820 on the internet?

00:45:32.280 My parents would kill me,

00:45:33.700 right?

00:45:33.940 Or leaving my house

00:45:34.760 in a bonnet,

00:45:35.760 dressing gown and slippers.

00:45:37.320 That is,

00:45:37.920 that's not,

00:45:38.540 it's not just the fact

00:45:39.260 that I would feel embarrassed,

00:45:40.020 but I'm like,

00:45:40.520 God,

00:45:40.820 my parents invested so much

00:45:42.120 to raise me in a certain way.

00:45:43.540 And I'm going out there

00:45:44.160 to disgrace myself

00:45:45.080 and embarrass myself.

00:45:45.920 And it's the same with my brother.

00:45:46.940 He would never sort of go out

00:45:48.300 in public,

00:45:49.180 I don't know,

00:45:50.460 dressed like a hoodlum

00:45:51.600 and think,

00:45:52.480 yeah,

00:45:52.640 he's a bad man today.

00:45:53.780 Because first of all,

00:45:54.640 I wouldn't let him

00:45:55.000 out of the house.

00:45:55.480 I'd be like,

00:45:55.620 hey,

00:45:56.160 young man.

00:45:57.360 I will handcuff you

00:45:58.400 to the radiator

00:45:58.940 unless you change.

00:46:00.280 But you know,

00:46:00.960 but there's,

00:46:01.800 that is how you,

00:46:02.700 you keep a society intact.

00:46:03.920 When people know

00:46:04.660 that they come from somewhere,

00:46:05.680 that they have a responsibility

00:46:06.440 on their shoulder

00:46:07.120 and they,

00:46:08.500 the way that they behave matters,

00:46:09.640 not just outside of themselves

00:46:11.080 or the immediate

00:46:11.960 consequences,

00:46:12.620 but as part of a bigger structure.

00:46:14.420 That's how you keep things together.

00:46:15.440 Not sort of investing

00:46:16.700 more in the police

00:46:17.360 or telling people

00:46:18.220 everything,

00:46:18.920 anything goes,

00:46:19.640 be yourself.

00:46:20.500 But also,

00:46:21.240 you know,

00:46:21.420 why has crime gone up?

00:46:22.600 Well,

00:46:22.780 we need to just put more money

00:46:23.820 into the police.

00:46:24.180 There will never be enough

00:46:24.920 police officers

00:46:25.680 to kind of keep society in check.

00:46:28.780 A large part of that

00:46:29.460 comes from the home

00:46:30.080 and how people are raised.

00:46:32.000 And I think that's

00:46:32.720 what makes the difference.

00:46:34.240 It is.

00:46:35.060 Look,

00:46:35.820 I was a former teacher,

00:46:36.860 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:46:37.760 But you saw the kids

00:46:38.760 who had trouble,

00:46:40.380 were focusing

00:46:40.980 or concentrating

00:46:41.880 or got in trouble at school

00:46:43.520 and you were like,

00:46:44.040 no, dad,

00:46:44.560 dad isn't at home.

00:46:45.420 Dad's walked out.

00:46:46.620 Yeah.

00:46:46.820 It's very simple.

00:46:48.500 I mean,

00:46:48.700 the single motherhood rate

00:46:49.660 in the Indian community

00:46:50.280 is 6%, right?

00:46:51.860 How many

00:46:52.500 sort of primarily

00:46:53.280 Indian-based gangs

00:46:54.160 do you see around the country?

00:46:55.680 I mean,

00:46:56.520 unless they're bursting out

00:46:59.720 into song every two minutes.

00:47:00.540 Like,

00:47:00.780 you just,

00:47:01.140 you don't see that.

00:47:01.820 I have a huge respect

00:47:03.200 for Indian and South Asian communities

00:47:04.920 in this country

00:47:05.420 because I think they get it.

00:47:07.260 And I think sort of,

00:47:08.220 even black African families

00:47:09.340 that are,

00:47:09.840 you know,

00:47:10.460 Christian or Muslim

00:47:11.080 but keep their family intact,

00:47:12.500 I don't think they understand

00:47:13.520 how much of a credit

00:47:14.260 they are to the society

00:47:15.160 and how much really

00:47:15.840 they are holding Britain together.

00:47:18.500 Esther,

00:47:18.800 so,

00:47:19.280 I think you're making

00:47:20.600 really good points.

00:47:21.420 Sorry to interrupt.

00:47:22.100 I just,

00:47:22.580 every time we have this conversation,

00:47:24.100 what I wonder is,

00:47:25.660 how do we change this?

00:47:27.180 How do we improve this?

00:47:28.260 How do we make these things better?

00:47:29.620 Now,

00:47:29.820 obviously,

00:47:30.440 you making the point

00:47:31.920 is important.

00:47:33.040 You saying what you think

00:47:34.160 is important

00:47:34.640 and that's why

00:47:35.960 we wanted to have you on

00:47:37.000 because I think your voice

00:47:37.880 is valuable

00:47:38.340 and so does Francis

00:47:39.080 and so do many

00:47:40.100 of the people watching.

00:47:41.400 But what are some of the steps

00:47:42.840 that we can take

00:47:43.940 as a society

00:47:44.620 to get us

00:47:45.540 to an understanding?

00:47:47.780 Because this is one,

00:47:48.380 when Francis asked you

00:47:49.140 about conservatism,

00:47:50.020 really,

00:47:50.440 I think at the core

00:47:51.220 of what you are talking about

00:47:52.580 is family,

00:47:54.200 family structure

00:47:55.180 and an appreciation

00:47:57.120 that just because

00:47:58.320 you may not have

00:47:59.360 right in the second

00:48:00.240 a super logical explanation

00:48:01.700 of why some things

00:48:02.460 work for thousands of years,

00:48:03.840 maybe it's not necessarily

00:48:05.120 the right thing

00:48:05.740 to throw it out of the window,

00:48:07.180 right?

00:48:07.520 So that's where

00:48:08.360 you're coming from.

00:48:09.420 But how do we get more people?

00:48:11.240 And this is where I come back

00:48:12.240 to the housing crisis,

00:48:13.300 right?

00:48:13.900 Because I agree with you.

00:48:16.540 I really do.

00:48:17.820 But I think many people

00:48:19.220 would recognize also

00:48:20.380 that we do have a situation

00:48:21.960 where it's so difficult

00:48:23.060 for young people

00:48:23.740 to pair up,

00:48:24.580 to get together,

00:48:25.660 to have kids.

00:48:26.560 I hear you,

00:48:27.480 kids don't have to be expensive.

00:48:29.280 But I think that's the first point,

00:48:30.500 the pairing up bit.

00:48:31.400 That's what we need.

00:48:32.380 So I think one

00:48:33.880 is to be an example yourself.

00:48:35.720 So I think I would feel

00:48:36.720 like a bit of a hypocrite

00:48:37.420 if I'm in my 40s

00:48:38.200 and like never married,

00:48:39.420 never had kids

00:48:39.920 or divorced or whatever.

00:48:40.820 I think personal responsibility

00:48:43.340 is huge for me personally.

00:48:44.940 And I place a huge responsibility

00:48:46.160 on myself and how I behave

00:48:47.400 because I have to stick

00:48:49.320 to the morals and values

00:48:50.400 that I espouse

00:48:51.160 to show people

00:48:52.440 that it is possible.

00:48:53.200 So for me,

00:48:54.320 I aspire to that

00:48:55.500 sort of ideal

00:48:56.400 of marriage and kids

00:48:57.620 and being a good wife

00:48:59.000 and staying together

00:48:59.660 and all of that.

00:49:00.420 And understanding that

00:49:01.320 marriage is not always

00:49:01.920 going to be easy.

00:49:02.540 I'll have to lean on

00:49:03.220 my parents a lot

00:49:03.760 because I'm like,

00:49:04.480 he left the toilet seat up again.

00:49:06.760 You know,

00:49:07.220 I have to sort of...

00:49:08.080 I pray for you

00:49:08.860 that is the smallest

00:49:09.580 of the problems in marriage.

00:49:10.620 But, you know,

00:49:13.040 lean on sort of

00:49:13.700 the established wisdom

00:49:14.520 to be able to get

00:49:15.360 through my life.

00:49:15.800 So one is be an example yourself.

00:49:17.240 You're going to talk about that.

00:49:18.220 Try and aspire for that yourself.

00:49:20.560 But also,

00:49:21.280 I think we should normalize

00:49:22.820 certain common sense things

00:49:24.480 like a man typically

00:49:26.360 doesn't want a woman

00:49:27.780 that's vulgar,

00:49:28.680 tattered up,

00:49:29.500 blue hair,

00:49:30.360 overweight,

00:49:31.440 you know,

00:49:31.680 not feminine,

00:49:32.520 doesn't have a set,

00:49:33.360 doesn't want kids,

00:49:34.340 all these things.

00:49:35.040 We should normalize that.

00:49:36.000 Like, you know,

00:49:36.820 saying,

00:49:37.400 telling people that

00:49:38.180 because they're not attracted

00:49:39.060 to trans women,

00:49:39.640 they're bigoted

00:49:40.200 is quite ridiculous, right?

00:49:42.460 We should normalize

00:49:43.480 traditional family values

00:49:45.080 and traditional roles

00:49:45.980 and we should stop shaming

00:49:46.920 or making women feel like

00:49:48.720 if they don't want

00:49:49.520 to have a massive career

00:49:50.580 or if they want to stay home

00:49:51.260 and take care of their kids

00:49:52.360 and they have to, you know,

00:49:53.900 struggle a little bit

00:49:54.780 in the beginning,

00:49:55.580 that that's fine.

00:49:56.600 Will they not be a part of you?

00:49:57.740 Like, you go,

00:49:58.940 I've had this successful TV career.

00:50:01.080 I've been on all these amazing shows

00:50:02.800 like Trigonometry.

00:50:04.040 Like, I've done all this cool stuff

00:50:05.780 and now I'm just a housewife.

00:50:08.540 I don't think I'll ever be

00:50:09.540 just a housewife.

00:50:10.240 I mean, I also pole dance.

00:50:13.240 So I'd be quite an interesting wife

00:50:15.400 but I do other things as well

00:50:16.580 because for me,

00:50:17.280 it's just feeling like

00:50:18.500 I'm being stimulated enough

00:50:19.620 mentally and physically.

00:50:21.200 So I'll always find an...

00:50:22.200 But the status stuff

00:50:22.780 you're not bothered about.

00:50:23.780 No, I'm not bothered.

00:50:24.700 I mean, to what end?

00:50:25.600 Like, what does it do for me?

00:50:27.280 So far as I'm influencing people

00:50:28.680 in the right way

00:50:29.360 and I'm being an inspiration,

00:50:30.360 I think I'm doing my job.

00:50:31.540 I'm happy, right?

00:50:32.520 If I have kids

00:50:34.000 and I'm taking care of them

00:50:34.640 and I'm in a happy marriage

00:50:35.480 and I'm an inspiration to people,

00:50:37.140 that's me doing my job.

00:50:38.540 Right?

00:50:38.800 And I think everything else

00:50:39.620 is just an extra

00:50:40.240 and it's a blessing.

00:50:41.280 But I think looking to yourself

00:50:42.480 and how you structure your life

00:50:43.500 is the first thing.

00:50:44.100 You can't, you know,

00:50:45.180 you can't put the world to rights

00:50:46.180 if your life is completely out of whack.

00:50:48.040 That's ridiculous.

00:50:49.160 But I also think, you know,

00:50:50.220 pushing more socially

00:50:51.340 conservative politicians.

00:50:52.900 I think the fact that childcare

00:50:54.100 is subsidized

00:50:54.900 in terms of sort of actual daycares

00:50:56.720 but stay-at-home mothers aren't

00:50:58.240 is a complete shambles.

00:50:59.960 And I think that flies in the face

00:51:01.380 of everything we want to achieve.

00:51:02.400 And the fact that it's

00:51:02.880 a conservative government

00:51:03.640 that hasn't even appreciated this fact

00:51:05.580 is disheartening.

00:51:06.980 But that's, on a political level,

00:51:08.620 that's how I'd say

00:51:09.220 we'd get to grips with that.

00:51:10.920 On a personal level,

00:51:11.640 live your life as you say

00:51:12.700 other people should live their lives

00:51:13.800 and have strict standards for yourself.

00:51:15.920 On a societal level,

00:51:16.720 we need to just get real.

00:51:18.020 We need to make male-female dynamics,

00:51:20.640 traditional roles popular again

00:51:22.320 and stop, you know,

00:51:24.040 when a woman says,

00:51:25.180 actually, I want to stay at home

00:51:26.840 and raise kids

00:51:27.420 or I love cooking for my husband

00:51:28.480 or whatever,

00:51:28.900 let's stop demonizing her.

00:51:30.000 Let's praise her.

00:51:30.740 And let's have,

00:51:32.840 let's do a bit more shaming.

00:51:34.120 Let's have that.

00:51:35.300 I absolutely believe

00:51:37.440 in shaming women

00:51:38.040 that leave their houses

00:51:38.800 in a bonnet

00:51:39.440 or you leave your house

00:51:40.540 and you're like...

00:51:40.780 What's a bonnet?

00:51:42.080 It's a black girl thing.

00:51:43.260 Like, you know,

00:51:43.600 it's kind of just

00:51:44.240 to keep your hair intact

00:51:45.020 while you sleep.

00:51:45.840 You wear it at home.

00:51:46.820 Yeah.

00:51:47.340 You know,

00:51:47.680 it's something you wear in your house.

00:51:49.800 What you wear at home

00:51:50.760 and what you wear into the public

00:51:51.720 sends a message, right?

00:51:52.880 Dress decently,

00:51:53.900 don't look like a tramp,

00:51:54.880 throw away your Crocs.

00:51:56.140 You know,

00:51:56.740 I'm absolutely here for it.

00:51:58.760 I believe in shaming,

00:51:59.720 but I have the same standards

00:52:00.840 for men, right?

00:52:01.800 Dress well,

00:52:02.300 they're holes in your trousers.

00:52:03.260 Why?

00:52:04.200 You know,

00:52:04.880 speak properly,

00:52:05.880 open the doors for women,

00:52:06.840 be a gentleman

00:52:07.460 because then she will treat,

00:52:08.560 she will treat you

00:52:09.160 like the lady she is, right?

00:52:10.580 And she will be kind

00:52:11.300 and caring towards you

00:52:12.240 and feminine.

00:52:13.160 I think if you live your life

00:52:14.540 that way,

00:52:15.300 you are,

00:52:15.700 you are sending a positive

00:52:16.560 and powerful message

00:52:17.460 and we need to do

00:52:18.300 a bit more shaming

00:52:18.920 because,

00:52:19.960 and I don't really care,

00:52:20.880 but you can see that

00:52:21.580 from my Twitter feed.

00:52:22.600 The fact that someone told me

00:52:24.140 they're obese

00:52:24.660 because they're poor

00:52:25.500 and I was like,

00:52:26.400 how did you get the food

00:52:27.760 if you're poor?

00:52:28.760 But isn't there also

00:52:31.180 like with that,

00:52:31.980 I mean,

00:52:32.240 there is a certain level,

00:52:33.660 like the food

00:52:34.600 that you're going to be able

00:52:35.420 to afford

00:52:35.900 is not high quality.

00:52:37.080 I don't buy that.

00:52:38.340 You don't buy that?

00:52:38.720 I don't buy that

00:52:39.300 and I have a friend,

00:52:40.200 Ricky Gleeson,

00:52:40.800 who did an experiment

00:52:41.540 on Twitter

00:52:42.020 because he said

00:52:42.480 he was broke

00:52:42.900 for most of his life

00:52:43.640 and he was also

00:52:44.400 a heroin addict

00:52:45.000 for most of his young adult life

00:52:46.460 and he's never been overweight.

00:52:48.000 Well, I mean,

00:52:48.300 heroin does have that effect.

00:52:49.620 It's an appetite suppression.

00:52:50.940 The thing is,

00:52:51.240 he's never been

00:52:52.140 in a situation

00:52:53.440 where he's had plenty

00:52:54.580 or even moderate amounts.

00:52:55.440 He's always been

00:52:56.140 very, very poor

00:52:56.840 and he was like,

00:52:58.320 you know,

00:52:58.820 it's about the choices you make.

00:53:00.880 Yes,

00:53:01.260 fast processed food is cheap

00:53:03.000 but so is the basics

00:53:04.460 that you need.

00:53:05.460 My brother is always like,

00:53:06.500 Kukwa,

00:53:06.740 why are there so many sardines

00:53:07.600 in this house?

00:53:08.120 Like,

00:53:08.560 bitch,

00:53:08.760 because that's 40p

00:53:09.480 and it's very healthy

00:53:11.280 and it's very good for you

00:53:12.220 and I don't need to spend money

00:53:14.480 on sort of McDonald's

00:53:16.100 which is five pounds

00:53:16.860 when I can buy 40p sardines,

00:53:19.400 buy some yams

00:53:20.260 or potatoes,

00:53:20.960 mash it together,

00:53:21.980 you know,

00:53:22.260 have some sauce

00:53:23.140 or something on the side

00:53:23.920 and eat it

00:53:24.240 and be very happy.

00:53:25.320 I cook for myself.

00:53:26.500 I buy the bare minimum

00:53:27.740 and I'm good,

00:53:28.600 right?

00:53:29.200 I don't think necessarily

00:53:30.300 because you're poor,

00:53:31.560 you have to be fat.

00:53:32.520 I just think it's

00:53:32.980 and also exercise is free.

00:53:35.100 The reason why I live

00:53:36.660 the way that I do

00:53:37.200 is one,

00:53:37.560 because obviously I pull down

00:53:38.300 and you have to be very fit

00:53:39.100 and I'm always up and down a pole

00:53:40.280 and I always have to go to osteopaths

00:53:41.720 and physio and all of that

00:53:42.820 but it's also because

00:53:43.780 it's mind and body.

00:53:45.280 If I'm fit

00:53:46.020 and I know I'm taking care of my body,

00:53:47.780 I feel better.

00:53:49.220 I'm more positive.

00:53:50.220 I'm happier towards people.

00:53:51.380 I'm more encouraging.

00:53:52.560 Me taking care of myself

00:53:53.600 and me putting in the work

00:53:55.060 to improve minor aspects of my life

00:53:57.220 is a net positive on society

00:53:58.920 because when people meet me,

00:54:00.340 I try and make their day better.

00:54:01.880 I try and, you know,

00:54:03.380 just make them happier

00:54:04.280 even if I make them smile,

00:54:05.300 even if I tell a joke,

00:54:06.800 you know,

00:54:07.400 and that's because

00:54:08.180 I'm in the state of mind

00:54:10.340 and body

00:54:10.760 to be able to have

00:54:11.500 a positive impact on society.

00:54:12.960 It's not just the fact

00:54:13.760 that people are obese, right?

00:54:15.420 A lot of those obese people

00:54:16.520 are on antidepressants.

00:54:17.680 A lot of those people

00:54:18.180 have negative sort of ideas

00:54:20.200 of themselves

00:54:20.740 and their negative view

00:54:21.800 of the world.

00:54:22.440 It's a downhill,

00:54:23.600 it's a downward slope

00:54:24.420 and I don't think people

00:54:25.460 understand how damaging it is.

00:54:26.860 Yeah, I don't think they do.

00:54:28.700 So I want to come back

00:54:29.500 to what you said about childcare

00:54:31.420 because it's an interesting point,

00:54:33.140 I think,

00:54:33.660 about the trap

00:54:35.740 that we do find ourselves

00:54:37.260 in to some extent

00:54:38.060 because from a government perspective,

00:54:41.000 subsidizing women

00:54:42.500 to stay at home with their kids

00:54:43.820 from an economic perspective.

00:54:45.620 Would be suicidal.

00:54:46.500 Absolutely terrible idea.

00:54:47.800 And this is the trap.

00:54:49.360 Once you, you know,

00:54:51.340 rightly open up the workforce

00:54:52.780 to women who want to work,

00:54:55.640 you've doubled the size

00:54:56.880 of the workforce

00:54:57.500 and nearly doubled.

00:54:58.260 You've stagnated wages.

00:54:59.720 Yeah, of course,

00:55:00.540 it has a massive effect

00:55:01.400 on downward pressure on wages,

00:55:03.220 but the economy is growing

00:55:04.880 and the economy must be growing.

00:55:06.980 The economy must always be growing.

00:55:08.000 A lot of the metrics they use

00:55:09.020 are vanity metrics, right?

00:55:10.060 They're talking about trade

00:55:11.000 and all of that.

00:55:11.480 And I'm like,

00:55:12.120 okay, it's trade,

00:55:12.860 but you're buying mostly

00:55:13.920 from other countries.

00:55:14.700 What are you actually producing?

00:55:15.640 Right.

00:55:16.040 The UK doesn't produce anything.

00:55:17.180 So this is what I'm getting at, right?

00:55:18.700 So because we have,

00:55:20.260 one of our first interviews

00:55:21.360 with an economist

00:55:22.060 called David Pilling

00:55:22.820 who talked about how GDP

00:55:23.900 is a completely useless measure

00:55:25.340 of a country's economic well-being.

00:55:28.100 But my point is,

00:55:29.400 if you encourage

00:55:30.460 some of the socially conservative policies

00:55:32.340 that you are talking about,

00:55:34.000 you are then taking women

00:55:35.380 back out of the workforce

00:55:36.780 and suddenly the economy

00:55:38.400 is not growing anymore

00:55:39.360 and we can't have that,

00:55:40.300 can we, Esther?

00:55:40.900 Not necessarily.

00:55:41.620 You force the economy to change.

00:55:43.180 You force the economy to restructure.

00:55:44.540 You force investment

00:55:45.240 to go where it needs to go.

00:55:46.860 You know,

00:55:47.080 you can't have it just,

00:55:48.020 because the thing is,

00:55:48.580 the jobs most women are doing

00:55:49.640 are not favourable jobs anyway.

00:55:50.960 Most women don't want to do

00:55:51.780 the kind of jobs

00:55:52.280 that they're doing now

00:55:52.900 in a cubicle,

00:55:54.600 you know,

00:55:54.860 office administrator

00:55:56.120 or whatever, right?

00:55:57.000 So it's not like you're taking away

00:55:57.880 high-flying jobs

00:55:58.620 in the first place.

00:55:59.620 But also,

00:56:00.200 I think that it's a societal benefit,

00:56:02.360 right?

00:56:02.760 It's not like the money is going,

00:56:03.840 you need to conjure the money up.

00:56:05.080 Move the money from childcare,

00:56:06.720 from these sort of

00:56:07.860 childcare institutions

00:56:08.580 to stay-at-home parents

00:56:10.180 because you're fortifying

00:56:11.440 the society's social structure.

00:56:13.300 It's better for the kids

00:56:15.040 to actually live

00:56:15.920 in that sort of environment

00:56:16.620 where they have

00:56:17.280 a primary caregiver

00:56:18.120 and they have that attention,

00:56:19.520 but they're also sort of

00:56:20.260 going to be around other kids

00:56:21.180 and all of that.

00:56:22.120 But also,

00:56:23.360 it forces the economy

00:56:24.740 to restructure

00:56:25.440 and that's what we need.

00:56:26.580 I mean,

00:56:26.900 I've said since the 1970s around,

00:56:29.280 most Western economies

00:56:30.140 have atrophied,

00:56:31.300 right?

00:56:31.600 People say like,

00:56:32.420 sort of Trump's rise

00:56:33.720 was the fact that he said

00:56:34.300 we're going to get

00:56:34.720 all the jobs back from China.

00:56:35.740 Actually,

00:56:36.500 moving production eastwards

00:56:37.640 is what saved a lot of the jobs

00:56:38.820 in Western countries

00:56:39.920 because,

00:56:41.040 no,

00:56:41.240 that's the truth

00:56:42.040 because these economies

00:56:43.120 were atrophying

00:56:43.800 in the 60s and 70s.

00:56:45.220 We weren't investing

00:56:46.040 in the right places.

00:56:47.140 I said the UK

00:56:47.680 doesn't produce anything

00:56:48.420 but we have the second largest

00:56:49.500 services industry

00:56:50.360 only,

00:56:50.840 you know,

00:56:51.320 second to the US,

00:56:52.200 right?

00:56:52.620 These are things

00:56:53.140 we need to invest in.

00:56:53.840 We need to invest

00:56:54.280 in high growth,

00:56:55.380 high tech industries

00:56:56.300 where it doesn't,

00:56:57.860 it's not because women

00:56:58.560 are not there

00:56:59.060 doing the menial jobs

00:56:59.820 they don't want to do anyway

00:57:00.660 that,

00:57:01.200 you know,

00:57:01.540 the society is tanking

00:57:02.720 or the economy is crumbling

00:57:03.680 or whatever.

00:57:04.120 That's a myth.

00:57:04.980 That's a fallacy.

00:57:06.040 And also,

00:57:06.720 a lot of the metrics

00:57:07.780 that they use

00:57:08.380 to measure growth

00:57:09.780 and success,

00:57:10.400 they're vanity metrics,

00:57:11.600 right?

00:57:11.900 Is your society a success

00:57:13.080 when,

00:57:13.500 you know,

00:57:14.820 homes are crumbling?

00:57:16.240 When kids are not growing up

00:57:17.380 in two-parent homes?

00:57:18.920 Is your society a success

00:57:19.840 when,

00:57:20.180 you know,

00:57:20.680 crime rates are through the roof

00:57:21.660 because people haven't been taught

00:57:22.740 proper discipline at home?

00:57:23.980 They haven't received

00:57:24.600 a backhand ever.

00:57:26.020 No,

00:57:26.220 I'm serious.

00:57:26.860 That's the thing.

00:57:27.740 These are vanity metrics

00:57:29.440 that they're using

00:57:30.120 because at the end of the day

00:57:31.060 it benefits

00:57:31.560 multinational corporations.

00:57:33.520 That's the long and short of it.

00:57:35.780 It doesn't benefit anyone

00:57:36.940 for women to be out of the home

00:57:38.700 and not taking care

00:57:39.640 of their families,

00:57:40.320 for family structures

00:57:41.500 to be crumbling.

00:57:42.840 And the perfect example

00:57:43.840 is the Indian community

00:57:44.700 in this country,

00:57:45.980 right?

00:57:46.180 It's a perfect example.

00:57:47.800 And I just,

00:57:48.960 I don't understand

00:57:49.620 why we've fallen into this,

00:57:50.960 we've bought this lie

00:57:51.860 that you have to

00:57:53.540 keep things as a status quo

00:57:55.240 or else everything

00:57:55.700 will come crumbling down.

00:57:56.580 No,

00:57:56.740 you have to force change,

00:57:57.580 you have to force innovation.

00:57:58.640 It's the same argument

00:57:59.280 I say with the EU,

00:58:00.160 you know,

00:58:00.540 there's no such thing

00:58:01.100 as free trade in the EU.

00:58:02.160 The EU is the largest

00:58:02.780 protectionist block

00:58:03.540 on the planet,

00:58:04.500 right?

00:58:05.060 And because of that

00:58:05.800 a lot of companies,

00:58:06.580 it's stagnated a lot of companies

00:58:07.840 ability to invest

00:58:08.660 in innovation

00:58:09.280 and to improve

00:58:10.080 and to compete

00:58:10.580 on the world stage

00:58:11.120 because they don't really

00:58:11.660 need to compete

00:58:12.160 on the world stage.

00:58:12.880 They have this closed market

00:58:13.900 of people

00:58:14.280 with a certain level

00:58:14.920 of income

00:58:15.220 that can buy

00:58:15.640 their goods and services.

00:58:16.340 They get the cheap

00:58:17.020 sort of raw materials

00:58:18.080 from China or the East

00:58:19.460 and then they just

00:58:20.040 keep ticking along.

00:58:20.840 And I'm like,

00:58:21.140 that's not how you grow.

00:58:22.620 That's not proper

00:58:23.500 progress,

00:58:25.140 right?

00:58:25.300 It's stagnation.

00:58:26.560 So I think

00:58:27.140 it's a complete fallacy.

00:58:29.040 It's such a good point

00:58:30.240 because it does feel now

00:58:31.620 like we're working

00:58:32.580 against our own

00:58:33.520 self-interest.

00:58:34.700 And if you look

00:58:35.380 at a lot of people's lives,

00:58:37.340 they would say

00:58:37.900 that they're not happy,

00:58:38.880 they're not fulfilled

00:58:39.660 and they're doing something

00:58:41.480 simply because

00:58:42.440 they have to do it.

00:58:44.360 I mean,

00:58:44.900 and I'm really happy.

00:58:46.040 One thing I am optimistic

00:58:47.900 about is the rise

00:58:48.760 of the Manus Fear of Space

00:58:50.200 to an extent.

00:58:51.020 I mean,

00:58:51.240 there are a bunch

00:58:51.580 of con artists there.

00:58:52.220 But I think

00:58:52.500 the fact that we've been

00:58:53.320 having real conversations

00:58:54.340 about what men

00:58:55.300 and women really want,

00:58:57.160 at least that's a guide

00:58:58.000 in the right direction.

00:58:59.080 So if you think,

00:58:59.860 right,

00:58:59.980 I'm not going to buy

00:59:00.500 the bullshit that I've been

00:59:01.300 sold about being a boss babe

00:59:02.480 or, you know,

00:59:03.840 a guy that sleeps his weight.

00:59:05.340 What is a boss babe?

00:59:06.260 I'm getting old.

00:59:06.760 This is crap on Instagram.

00:59:07.800 I keep saying,

00:59:08.320 I'm a boss babe.

00:59:09.200 I'm like,

00:59:09.400 hey,

00:59:09.780 leave me alone.

00:59:10.520 I don't want to hear that crap.

00:59:11.580 Like,

00:59:11.780 I don't need to prove myself

00:59:12.900 to anyone.

00:59:13.400 But it's part of this idea

00:59:14.680 like Hollywood movies

00:59:15.940 where like a five foot,

00:59:18.080 five foot five woman

00:59:19.480 just like destroys

00:59:20.680 10 massive guys

00:59:21.960 in a fistfire.

00:59:23.300 I'm going to get to that actually

00:59:24.140 because I watched a film

00:59:25.040 from Netflix

00:59:25.540 and it's actually traumatized.

00:59:27.280 But the thing is,

00:59:28.860 the fact that we're having

00:59:29.620 this conversation

00:59:30.360 about what men

00:59:30.960 and women really want,

00:59:32.140 that's a step

00:59:32.640 in the right direction.

00:59:33.620 Because if you choose,

00:59:34.840 if you have that information

00:59:35.620 and you choose to ignore

00:59:36.360 and you still choose to go

00:59:37.260 in the way that you want to,

00:59:39.180 fine.

00:59:39.720 But I think by 2030,

00:59:40.860 women,

00:59:41.300 half of women over 30

00:59:42.080 are going to be single

00:59:42.660 and unmarried.

00:59:43.680 So it's going downhill

00:59:45.420 pretty fast.

00:59:46.140 And I don't know

00:59:47.240 if I'm allowed to say this,

00:59:48.020 but men that are clued up

00:59:49.600 and are realizing this

00:59:51.100 are not going for

00:59:51.720 those kinds of women.

00:59:52.800 And I've actually,

00:59:54.140 I don't know if I'm allowed

00:59:54.760 to say this.

00:59:55.220 In my experience,

00:59:55.860 I've had loads of guys saying,

00:59:57.160 oh, I actually don't date

00:59:57.840 white British women

00:59:58.440 because the family values

00:59:59.360 are out of whack.

00:59:59.860 They're not feminine.

01:00:00.400 They don't stay feminine

01:00:01.120 for very long.

01:00:01.720 They're just fit for like

01:00:02.680 five, ten years

01:00:03.340 and then it goes downhill

01:00:04.100 and stuff like that.

01:00:04.800 So I have people saying,

01:00:05.620 oh, you know,

01:00:05.900 I want a traditional

01:00:06.420 African woman.

01:00:07.000 I'm like,

01:00:07.840 what exactly do you mean?

01:00:10.820 Because are you going to call me

01:00:11.740 your chocolate Beyonce?

01:00:12.720 Because I've had that.

01:00:13.380 I've had that in France

01:00:14.240 and I'm like not here for it again.

01:00:16.500 You know,

01:00:16.920 I think the fact that

01:00:17.580 we're having those conversations

01:00:18.560 are a step in the right direction.

01:00:19.560 Also, Hollywood is to blame.

01:00:21.380 Hollywood is to blame.

01:00:22.460 When I see these miniature women

01:00:24.020 that are like five foot five,

01:00:25.820 and I'm five foot five,

01:00:26.580 I live in heels

01:00:27.180 because I'm so short.

01:00:28.620 And I see them

01:00:29.880 in the superhero films

01:00:30.620 and like they're beating up

01:00:31.420 these men

01:00:31.820 or they're boss babes.

01:00:32.840 I just think,

01:00:33.800 but why?

01:00:34.720 Because it's a lie.

01:00:36.220 I couldn't,

01:00:36.700 I literally couldn't

01:00:37.400 beat up anything.

01:00:38.520 Why have you,

01:00:40.020 and it's these films

01:00:40.980 that come out

01:00:41.440 and they're just glorifying

01:00:42.280 from obscurity

01:00:43.000 and these women

01:00:44.100 just acting really unfeminine.

01:00:46.360 And I watched this film

01:00:47.540 the other day,

01:00:47.960 which is,

01:00:48.240 look,

01:00:49.140 I know I have

01:00:50.260 a bad taste in films.

01:00:51.340 I enjoy Fast and Furious

01:00:52.540 and romantic comedies.

01:00:53.740 I like my entertainment low IQ.

01:00:55.320 So really anything

01:00:56.020 Netflix puts out

01:00:56.840 shouldn't be that bad.

01:00:58.140 This was the worst film

01:00:59.040 I'd ever seen.

01:01:00.020 And it's because

01:01:00.500 within 10 minutes

01:01:01.140 of watching it,

01:01:01.860 this girl,

01:01:02.600 this young girl,

01:01:03.400 nice waitress,

01:01:04.020 was accusing this guy

01:01:04.960 of casual misogyny.

01:01:06.060 I was like,

01:01:06.360 okay,

01:01:06.940 well,

01:01:07.280 we've set the standard there.

01:01:08.680 And then halfway

01:01:09.220 through the film,

01:01:10.120 it zooms out of her flat

01:01:11.320 and there are four flags

01:01:12.240 hanging out of her flat.

01:01:13.460 And one is a BLM flag,

01:01:14.780 one is an LGBT flag,

01:01:16.480 another bullshit flag.

01:01:17.660 And I just think,

01:01:18.800 they're not even subtle

01:01:19.520 with the messaging.

01:01:20.380 So they really want you

01:01:21.460 to know that they don't

01:01:22.360 approve of certain lifestyles

01:01:23.620 and they want you to aspire

01:01:25.400 to be that boss babe

01:01:26.580 and that if you don't have

01:01:27.880 a sort of a certain image

01:01:30.000 or persona,

01:01:30.500 you're dull.

01:01:31.660 And I'm like,

01:01:32.080 I don't think anyone

01:01:32.620 would ever meet me

01:01:33.180 and think I'm dull,

01:01:34.320 right?

01:01:34.660 And I don't have to prove

01:01:35.480 myself to anyone

01:01:36.260 in terms of how intelligent I am.

01:01:37.900 But I want to take care of a man,

01:01:39.920 right?

01:01:40.020 I want to take care of my family.

01:01:41.160 I'm a really good cook.

01:01:42.520 I come from,

01:01:43.300 and I'm basically like my mother,

01:01:44.720 right?

01:01:44.900 My mother never,

01:01:45.680 she wouldn't even let me

01:01:46.180 leave the house dressed

01:01:46.800 a certain way.

01:01:47.280 I've never seen her look raggedy.

01:01:49.400 My mom came to a parent-teacher

01:01:50.680 meeting when I was in school here

01:01:51.940 and someone was like,

01:01:52.520 oh, your mother is such a diva.

01:01:53.600 I was like, no.

01:01:54.760 She's a woman.

01:01:58.040 You know what I mean?

01:01:59.860 That's all I know.

01:02:00.980 And I'm so grateful

01:02:01.860 that I've been insulated

01:02:02.800 in that way

01:02:03.380 because now I see,

01:02:04.540 like I swiped through

01:02:05.080 my brother's dating.

01:02:05.780 I was like,

01:02:06.060 he's like,

01:02:07.140 why are you swiping left

01:02:07.840 on all of them?

01:02:08.200 I was like,

01:02:08.340 because they're awful

01:02:09.320 and I would never let you

01:02:10.460 bring any of them

01:02:11.040 to this house.

01:02:11.640 It's a funny point

01:02:13.880 you make about

01:02:14.660 the manosphere

01:02:16.020 and how men

01:02:16.940 who are clued up

01:02:17.660 aren't doing that.

01:02:18.460 People are often saying to me,

01:02:19.680 well, you've just had a baby boy.

01:02:21.320 It's not a good time

01:02:22.140 to be a man, is it?

01:02:23.540 And I'm like,

01:02:24.180 it's a fucking great time

01:02:25.160 to be a man

01:02:25.720 as long as you recognize

01:02:27.520 the bullshit

01:02:28.200 and ignore it, right?

01:02:29.420 Exactly.

01:02:29.960 And if you are prepared

01:02:31.200 to remain a man

01:02:32.460 while all of this is happening,

01:02:34.360 there are plenty of women

01:02:35.300 out there

01:02:35.760 who are also not

01:02:36.760 into the bullshit.

01:02:37.640 And part of it is

01:02:38.800 that, you know,

01:02:40.060 at a basic level,

01:02:41.120 you can change

01:02:42.180 the software

01:02:43.280 but the hardware

01:02:44.060 is the same.

01:02:44.680 And it's been there

01:02:45.600 for thousands,

01:02:46.340 tens of thousands of years.

01:02:47.240 It's not going anywhere.

01:02:48.200 You can try to change

01:02:49.320 the software.

01:02:50.020 You can put all the

01:02:50.760 crappy updates in there

01:02:51.800 that you want.

01:02:52.580 The hardware is the hardware.

01:02:53.960 And at the end of the day,

01:02:55.140 most women eventually

01:02:56.200 want a man to settle down

01:02:57.540 with,

01:02:57.760 to have kids with.

01:02:58.740 They may want to work

01:02:59.600 or not.

01:02:59.920 That's a different issue.

01:03:01.300 At least do something

01:03:02.460 they enjoy, right?

01:03:03.300 Not like sort of

01:03:04.220 office administration.

01:03:05.820 But I also think,

01:03:07.140 you know,

01:03:07.380 and I'll probably touch

01:03:09.060 on the point of humility,

01:03:10.200 right?

01:03:10.400 Because other than the humility

01:03:11.240 to know what each other wants,

01:03:12.620 also the humility

01:03:13.180 to be honest with yourself.

01:03:14.620 Like I think a lot of women

01:03:15.580 have really,

01:03:16.200 really,

01:03:16.380 really high standards.

01:03:17.360 And I say this as like

01:03:18.280 a self-identified princess.

01:03:20.620 My dad calls me,

01:03:21.460 hello princess,

01:03:22.160 like daddy.

01:03:23.720 And I know this about myself.

01:03:25.540 But I also think,

01:03:26.840 I don't think it's reason,

01:03:28.220 like everything is,

01:03:29.100 they're trade-offs.

01:03:29.840 Everything is a trade-off,

01:03:30.580 right?

01:03:30.720 You might want a guy

01:03:31.560 who's established

01:03:32.120 and older and rich.

01:03:33.140 But you know,

01:03:33.440 he comes with a lot of baggage

01:03:34.340 because to get that established

01:03:35.440 and, you know,

01:03:36.180 rich and whatever,

01:03:37.400 you know,

01:03:37.580 he's had to deal with a lot.

01:03:39.200 His patient worse than,

01:03:40.700 he kind of wants a woman

01:03:41.360 that looks a certain way.

01:03:42.540 If you're not in the age bracket

01:03:43.900 that he wants,

01:03:44.480 too bad.

01:03:45.080 Maybe you waited too long.

01:03:46.080 Just get real with yourself.

01:03:47.300 Just be honest.

01:03:47.940 And it's fine.

01:03:48.800 Because at the end of the day,

01:03:49.620 what you're looking for

01:03:50.660 is stability

01:03:52.920 and to build something

01:03:54.100 that really matters.

01:03:54.900 Not going for this glossy

01:03:56.000 kind of Ken,

01:03:57.040 perfect Ken doll

01:03:57.700 that you can flash to the world.

01:03:59.000 I don't think that really matters.

01:04:00.400 And as someone,

01:04:00.880 my dad is very successful,

01:04:02.260 but he's really had to grind.

01:04:03.920 Whenever I tell him about,

01:04:04.820 like,

01:04:04.880 oh,

01:04:04.980 I went on a date with this guy,

01:04:05.920 he'd be like,

01:04:06.300 is he focused?

01:04:07.160 He doesn't ask me

01:04:07.920 what car did he bring

01:04:08.980 or how did he dress?

01:04:10.180 He obviously doesn't want

01:04:11.380 some hobbit in his house.

01:04:13.080 But the point is,

01:04:14.080 he would just say,

01:04:14.620 is he focused?

01:04:15.420 Because he knows

01:04:16.100 that's something

01:04:16.480 that I can work with.

01:04:17.320 Because he knows me exactly.

01:04:18.260 He was like,

01:04:18.500 look,

01:04:18.660 Kukwa,

01:04:18.880 you're very intelligent,

01:04:20.540 you're very feminine,

01:04:21.120 you're very all this,

01:04:21.840 but you need someone

01:04:23.100 that is on that wavelength.

01:04:24.840 Because if you want to build

01:04:26.320 with a man like that,

01:04:26.900 you need a man

01:04:27.420 who's looking for that woman

01:04:28.980 to build with.

01:04:30.440 You can't put a sort of

01:04:31.800 square peg in a round hole.

01:04:32.740 It doesn't fit.

01:04:33.360 It just needs to go together.

01:04:35.680 Focus is such an attractive quality

01:04:37.520 in a man,

01:04:38.100 particularly,

01:04:38.700 because that's the currency

01:04:41.420 of masculinity

01:04:42.600 is doing stuff.

01:04:44.020 Drive and focus

01:04:44.500 and discipline

01:04:45.260 and consistency.

01:04:46.380 And I think one of the things,

01:04:47.680 I mean,

01:04:48.160 when I was,

01:04:49.260 one of my exes used to say,

01:04:50.640 you never bother me.

01:04:51.460 And I was like,

01:04:52.060 why?

01:04:52.420 I was like,

01:04:52.600 I've been quiet for this.

01:04:53.640 I'm like,

01:04:53.780 well,

01:04:53.900 I'm assuming you're working.

01:04:54.760 You're doing something busy.

01:04:56.140 And he was like,

01:04:56.520 why do you think like that?

01:04:57.360 I was like,

01:04:57.640 because that's what my dad does,

01:04:58.780 right?

01:04:59.140 I don't always spend time

01:05:00.260 with my dad.

01:05:00.760 I haven't seen my dad

01:05:01.420 since December 2020

01:05:02.420 because of the pandemic,

01:05:03.160 but I know he's working.

01:05:05.520 And then he'll send me messages

01:05:06.300 of a project he's finished

01:05:07.140 and I'm like,

01:05:07.660 yay,

01:05:08.340 my daddy's a,

01:05:09.000 you know?

01:05:09.460 And I praise him

01:05:10.580 and he knows I'm very,

01:05:11.280 very proud of him.

01:05:12.380 But he also knows

01:05:13.200 that he's raised me

01:05:13.860 to know that the kind

01:05:14.440 of man you want

01:05:15.020 is not going to be sitting around

01:05:15.980 always having time for you.

01:05:17.580 He's not going to message you 24-7.

01:05:19.400 You need to be,

01:05:20.100 you need to understand that.

01:05:21.140 You need to be able

01:05:21.580 to keep yourself busy.

01:05:22.740 That's why I'm the kind of person

01:05:23.680 that loves to learn new things

01:05:24.800 and always do things.

01:05:25.660 I'm crazy enough

01:05:26.200 to be spinning on a pole

01:05:27.040 in my underwear.

01:05:28.460 But it's fun for me

01:05:29.240 and it's a net positive

01:05:31.300 for everyone

01:05:31.900 because I'm taking care of myself

01:05:33.540 to the best of my ability

01:05:34.360 to know that I'm enough for you

01:05:35.720 and I can be what you need.

01:05:37.100 And on a societal level as well,

01:05:38.520 I'm a positive influence.

01:05:39.680 And I think everyone

01:05:40.260 should have that mindset.

01:05:41.180 You need to have strict standards

01:05:42.080 with yourself.

01:05:43.340 Yeah, completely agree.

01:05:45.060 But Esther,

01:05:45.640 it's been an absolute pleasure.

01:05:47.220 Thank you so much

01:05:48.140 for coming in.

01:05:49.100 The last question

01:05:49.980 we always ask is

01:05:50.820 Before our locals' questions.

01:05:51.740 Before our locals' questions

01:05:52.980 is what's the one thing

01:05:54.880 we're not talking about

01:05:56.080 as a society

01:05:57.140 that we really should be?

01:05:58.220 And obviously,

01:05:59.040 the question is

01:06:00.260 who makes a better jollof rice?

01:06:02.380 Nigeria.

01:06:02.920 Ah!

01:06:03.740 You don't need to ask.

01:06:04.440 It's obviously gone in.

01:06:05.660 And I say this as a fantastic cook.

01:06:07.160 I actually taught my Nigerian ex

01:06:08.460 how to cook jollof.

01:06:09.260 So he's accepted it.

01:06:10.880 Really?

01:06:11.220 Yes.

01:06:11.540 I taught him at uni

01:06:12.760 and I used to make it

01:06:13.920 and he's like,

01:06:14.220 can you show me

01:06:14.760 in case you dump me?

01:06:15.480 I was like, okay.

01:06:16.800 And I showed him

01:06:18.580 and I was like,

01:06:18.940 no, it's legit.

01:06:19.420 I actually probably

01:06:19.940 talked him out

01:06:20.320 how to cook properly.

01:06:21.620 And then she dumped him anyway.

01:06:23.300 Well, he had to go back home.

01:06:24.800 But one of the things

01:06:25.560 I think...

01:06:25.860 It sounds better

01:06:26.580 you saying that

01:06:27.800 than me saying that.

01:06:28.700 You had to go back home.

01:06:29.540 I've never slag off my ex.

01:06:30.740 Yeah, I know.

01:06:31.820 He pissed off his dad.

01:06:32.720 No, I never slag off.

01:06:33.800 That's another thing.

01:06:34.720 A woman or anyone

01:06:35.580 that slags off their exes run

01:06:36.860 because there's no personal

01:06:38.480 responsibility there.

01:06:39.240 You chose them.

01:06:40.400 I think one thing

01:06:41.220 we're not talking about enough

01:06:42.300 that we should be talking about

01:06:43.400 is probably abortion.

01:06:44.920 I know that's really heavy.

01:06:46.200 But I really,

01:06:48.300 I really, really hate

01:06:49.580 the attitude

01:06:50.020 that we have towards it.

01:06:51.120 Like, it's just

01:06:51.740 a black or white issue.

01:06:53.640 I watched this comedian.

01:06:54.720 I don't remember who it was,

01:06:55.500 but she was like,

01:06:56.000 it's my body.

01:06:56.500 My chair was like,

01:06:56.920 no, at that point,

01:06:57.560 it's not your body.

01:06:58.540 It's an apartment.

01:06:59.480 You're sharing with a co-tenant,

01:07:01.140 which I thought was really funny.

01:07:02.600 But I think,

01:07:03.400 regardless of what side

01:07:04.540 you lean on,

01:07:05.080 I don't like this idea

01:07:06.460 that we make it

01:07:08.700 not a moral issue.

01:07:09.620 It's clearly a moral issue,

01:07:10.660 right?

01:07:11.420 Because what's growing inside you

01:07:12.960 is not a chair.

01:07:14.260 But at the same time as well,

01:07:15.620 there are circumstances

01:07:16.260 like a woman being raped

01:07:17.360 or being underage

01:07:18.180 that it's like,

01:07:18.740 well, you know,

01:07:19.940 it's really sad,

01:07:21.420 but that line is very divided.

01:07:23.500 And I think the fact

01:07:24.680 that contraception

01:07:25.480 is free and readily available

01:07:26.440 in the UK

01:07:26.940 and one in four pregnancies

01:07:28.480 are aborted

01:07:29.400 by young women

01:07:30.640 that really,

01:07:31.240 50 years ago

01:07:32.320 would have been married

01:07:32.920 in a family

01:07:33.460 and having those children.

01:07:34.640 I think it's a huge

01:07:35.400 blight in society.

01:07:36.360 And I think when we're

01:07:36.880 at the point now

01:07:37.520 where people are really

01:07:38.480 just not having kids

01:07:39.300 because they can't afford a home

01:07:41.400 or all the basic things,

01:07:42.640 I think it's suicidal

01:07:44.440 that we're not really

01:07:45.480 having constructive conversations

01:07:46.560 about that

01:07:47.060 because there's so many issues

01:07:48.720 that I have

01:07:49.200 around how we talk about abortion.

01:07:50.580 And I admire the Americans

01:07:51.560 as passionate as they are

01:07:52.560 for at least recognizing

01:07:53.720 that it's a moral issue,

01:07:55.320 at least in the middle ground,

01:07:56.400 not on the fringe ends

01:07:57.320 where there's like,

01:07:57.880 it's just a polyp

01:07:58.640 or, you know,

01:07:59.880 it's murder

01:08:00.560 on the other side.

01:08:01.500 Do you know what I mean?

01:08:02.540 We've had great conversations

01:08:04.060 on this show

01:08:04.900 with Anne Furedi

01:08:06.300 and Dr. Callum Miller

01:08:07.960 from the both pro

01:08:09.500 and anti side.

01:08:11.700 But I think actually

01:08:12.700 it comes back

01:08:13.320 to the very good point

01:08:14.220 that you made earlier

01:08:14.920 in this conversation

01:08:15.600 which is

01:08:16.100 I actually don't know

01:08:18.000 that we would need

01:08:19.480 to talk abortion

01:08:20.240 quite as much

01:08:20.980 as I think we do need

01:08:21.920 to talk about it now

01:08:22.820 if some of the family stuff

01:08:25.100 that you were talking about earlier

01:08:26.400 was in a different place.

01:08:27.640 Yeah, absolutely.

01:08:28.520 And just,

01:08:28.960 I think

01:08:29.520 that's one of the biggest problems

01:08:32.320 that we face

01:08:32.840 I don't think people understand

01:08:33.960 and I don't know

01:08:34.940 to be honest

01:08:35.460 I don't know the extent

01:08:36.100 to which my profile

01:08:36.780 is going to grow

01:08:37.360 or to the extent

01:08:38.380 to which my voice

01:08:39.840 regarding societal issues

01:08:41.660 in this country

01:08:42.600 will grow enough

01:08:43.600 but if it does

01:08:44.720 and I'm really hoping

01:08:45.460 I'm blessed it will

01:08:46.200 that's something

01:08:47.040 I really want to talk about

01:08:48.460 but I also want to reflect

01:08:49.800 that in my own life.

01:08:51.000 I don't want to just be

01:08:51.560 that kind of person

01:08:52.040 that's harping on about it.

01:08:53.100 One, I've seen it.

01:08:53.900 I've grown up in that family.

01:08:54.920 I've seen the benefits of it

01:08:55.680 but also

01:08:56.040 I want my life to imitate that

01:08:57.460 and I want people

01:08:58.200 to see that as possible

01:08:59.120 and I just want men and women

01:09:00.800 to be better

01:09:01.340 particularly women

01:09:03.380 because I think

01:09:04.520 we've been fed so many lies.

01:09:06.900 Well, a great note to end on.

01:09:08.840 Esther, thank you so much

01:09:09.720 for coming on the show.

01:09:10.840 Really pleasure to chat with you.

01:09:12.520 Really great pleasure

01:09:13.260 to chat with you.

01:09:14.360 We're going to ask you

01:09:15.040 a couple of questions

01:09:15.860 from our locals

01:09:16.920 but in the meantime

01:09:17.480 where can people find you

01:09:18.580 and follow your work?

01:09:19.280 If you dare, on Twitter.

01:09:22.520 If you're bold enough

01:09:23.900 Esther K underscore K

01:09:25.560 I'm on Twitter.

01:09:26.720 I do a lot of work for Talk

01:09:27.780 so you can see me

01:09:28.540 on Piers Morgan's show

01:09:29.380 Uncensored

01:09:29.900 Piers Morgan Uncensored

01:09:30.880 or The Talk

01:09:31.960 which is a panel show

01:09:32.780 on Talk TV

01:09:33.460 but I also write for

01:09:35.660 the Daily Mail

01:09:36.160 and the Daily Express as well.

01:09:37.400 So, all over.

01:09:38.060 Fantastic.

01:09:38.660 Thanks for coming on.

01:09:39.580 Thank you for watching

01:09:40.520 and listening.

01:09:41.220 We will see you very soon

01:09:42.420 with another brilliant episode

01:09:43.580 like this one

01:09:44.420 or Raw Show.

01:09:45.800 All of them go out

01:09:46.560 at 7pm UK time.

01:09:47.620 And for those of you

01:09:48.300 who like your trigonometry

01:09:49.300 on the go

01:09:50.100 it's also available

01:09:51.260 as a podcast.

01:09:52.660 Take care

01:09:53.180 and see you soon guys.

01:09:55.840 And I have a lot to say

01:09:56.900 about kind of

01:09:57.500 the dinghies

01:09:58.580 and people that are

01:09:59.220 coming across the channel

01:09:59.940 because I actually

01:10:00.760 and I say I have

01:10:01.560 a really personal experience

01:10:02.440 with someone

01:10:02.780 who did that trip

01:10:05.080 across the Mediterranean

01:10:05.700 but he's in Italy now.

01:10:07.000 Well Esther

01:10:07.520 I know we've got

01:10:08.520 the local questions

01:10:09.380 but this is really interesting.

01:10:10.880 If you've got time

01:10:11.840 tell us about that.

01:10:17.620 Broadway's smash hit

01:10:34.480 The Neil Diamond Musical

01:10:35.800 A Beautiful Noise

01:10:37.300 is coming to Toronto.

01:10:38.900 The true story

01:10:39.680 of a kid from Brooklyn

01:10:40.740 destined for something more

01:10:42.280 featuring all the songs

01:10:43.420 you love

01:10:44.020 including America

01:10:45.160 Forever in Blue Jeans

01:10:46.500 and Sweet Caroline.

01:10:48.180 Like Jersey Boys

01:10:49.120 and Beautiful

01:10:49.740 the next musical

01:10:50.920 mega hit is here.

01:10:52.260 The Neil Diamond Musical

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01:10:54.920 April 28th

01:10:55.980 through June 7th

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01:10:57.920 The Princess of Wales Theatre.

01:11:00.000 Get tickets at

01:11:00.700 Burbush.com

01:11:01.820 Burbush.com

TRIGGERnometry - September 26, 2022

＂Women Have Been Scammed＂ - Esther Krakue

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