TRIGGERnometry - WORLD EXCLUSIVE： Nigel Farage SPEAKS OUT

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00:00:30.000 we were going to talk about the by-election but tragically that has been overshadowed by events

00:00:37.760 particularly the murder of Ann Whittacombe what is your reaction to that the two are linked

00:00:42.080 the two are directly linked I will need I'm afraid given the way the world is now

00:00:48.140 to have protection until the end of my days and frankly Ann Whittacombe's death

00:00:54.660 is 5 million, quite good reasons.

00:00:57.500 I think there are two questions that genuinely are worth asking.

00:01:01.860 Number one is this £5 million gift,

00:01:03.660 and the other question is the pos George thing,

00:01:06.140 who was convicted of wire fraud in the US.

00:01:08.580 Well, hang on, Louise Hay is a convicted fraudster

00:01:11.920 about to go in Andy Burnham's cabinet.

00:01:15.340 The police followed up in the spring of 2025.

00:01:19.400 Why is it now a story?

00:01:21.160 The reality is, though, that this by-election hasn't...

00:01:24.140 It hasn't gone to plan, has it?

00:01:28.360 Nigel, welcome back on the show.

00:01:30.620 Thank you.

00:01:30.980 Originally, when we first booked to do this interview,

00:01:33.540 we were going to talk about the by-election,

00:01:36.200 your resignation, the challenges both you and reform are facing.

00:01:39.620 But tragically, that has been overshadowed by events

00:01:42.520 in the previous week, particularly the murder of Anne Whittacombe.

00:01:45.720 What is your reaction to that?

00:01:47.500 The two are linked.

00:01:48.820 The two are directly linked.

00:01:50.680 the full-scale attack on reform, which has really gone into gear since May the 7th. Why May the

00:01:58.640 7th? Massive set of elections across the UK. We wipe out the Conservatives in East Anglia.

00:02:03.820 Unbelievable. We take out Labour in the north of England, the Midlands. We make breakthroughs,

00:02:09.220 big breakthroughs in Scotland and in Wales. And ever since that moment, the attacks on the party

00:02:16.600 have been un-renting.

00:02:19.260 And really, what's happening,

00:02:21.160 whether it's the press,

00:02:22.740 whether it's Ed Davey,

00:02:24.440 whether it's other front benches,

00:02:26.340 is, you know, we are extremists,

00:02:29.280 racists, the most dangerous threat to Britain.

00:02:32.160 We're more dangerous than Putin 0.87

00:02:33.300 as a threat to Britain. 0.98

00:02:35.460 We're all criminals. 0.98

00:02:36.680 I mean, we're all criminals.

00:02:38.220 You know, Tyce, Post-George, me,

00:02:39.980 we should all be in prison.

00:02:41.480 And this is the narrative

00:02:42.720 that has been going out unendingly

00:02:46.700 And I've been in this game a long time.

00:02:49.180 You know, I'm used to the rough and tumble of political debate.

00:02:53.200 And that's fine.

00:02:54.300 Actually, to some extent, that's what democracy is.

00:02:57.040 You know, we have a pop at each other and let Joe Public make up their minds who they believe.

00:03:02.660 But when it comes to stuff being published in mainstream national newspapers,

00:03:06.060 it's just not true.

00:03:07.580 Just simply not true or exaggerated beyond belief.

00:03:11.820 What are you talking about that's not true, Nigel?

00:03:13.340 And one little example is Posh George paid for all the computers in the Reform Office

00:03:18.440 and did not. That was not declared in our donations. Well, the answer is, he didn't.

00:03:26.300 So you tell the Sunday Times again and again and again, he didn't. They publish it. And then the

00:03:32.020 Times Daily Editorial writes in its editorial. These are the serious questions. Just not true.

00:03:38.460 And how are you connecting this to the murder, Anne?

00:03:41.580 Do you know something that we don't about that murder?

00:03:44.840 Yeah, yeah.

00:03:45.120 If you demonise, if you demonise people because, I don't know, in Anne's case,

00:03:52.520 they don't believe in gay marriage, or they have strict views on abortion,

00:03:56.280 or they believe in strict immigration controls.

00:03:59.400 If you absolutely dehumanise people like this, is it surprising that living out there

00:04:05.340 in the subculture, of those who spend their lives online

00:04:09.000 and struggle to get on with other people,

00:04:11.060 that this doesn't engender a form of hate.

00:04:13.700 And, I mean, clearly Anne's murder is, I mean,

00:04:19.160 a very, very deeply upsetting thing.

00:04:22.080 And I've noticed, I mean, just interesting,

00:04:24.300 going round the doors here in Clacton,

00:04:26.520 people are really, really hit by it.

00:04:28.880 I mean, just good ordinary folk are really hit by it.

00:04:32.100 I can't think of anybody more famous

00:04:33.820 that's been murdered for decades and decades.

00:04:37.200 So there is a direct link between the two.

00:04:38.980 That was no question.

00:04:40.280 And it was so interesting to see the police,

00:04:43.960 Devon and Cornwall police,

00:04:44.980 or should we just call them what they are, plod?

00:04:47.900 Absolute waste of space.

00:04:49.720 I think they're still looking for somebody

00:04:51.340 that could have committed a burglary, you know.

00:04:53.240 I mean, they were so wrong about everything.

00:04:55.280 Obvious to me, right from the first minute,

00:04:57.500 this was politically motivated, premeditated,

00:05:01.360 assassination of a political figure, and I would argue back to your question, directly downstream

00:05:07.920 of the kind of campaign that is being waged against the entire reform agenda by many online,

00:05:15.140 in mainstream media, and in the House of Commons every single week. And, you know, it's not that

00:05:22.760 I'm afraid of criticism, but I mean, if we sought to demonize Diane Abbott or someone like that,

00:05:30.680 I mean, we'd be made out to be the worst people in the world.

00:05:34.160 I mean, can you imagine if the murderer was a Reform Party member?

00:05:39.100 I mean, we'd be closed down.

00:05:40.960 We wouldn't even exist.

00:05:43.080 And it's why when people say to me, and commentators write,

00:05:48.360 oh, well, Nigel Farage, you know, he's obviously losing his mind

00:05:52.080 because he's getting angry with journalists.

00:05:55.780 Yeah, I am.

00:05:56.920 I'm getting really angry with journalists, particularly Times journalists.

00:06:00.680 who choose to publish photographs of where my daughter lives.

00:06:03.980 You know, she's not a public figure.

00:06:06.680 There is no public interest in this at all.

00:06:09.220 And I see what happened to Anne five days after that programme,

00:06:12.540 and I begin to get very scared about things.

00:06:15.380 So I called this by-election before Anne's murder,

00:06:20.340 but I called this by-election because just the daily assault,

00:06:25.180 the being found guilty in the media and in politics,

00:06:29.940 every single day without any means effectively

00:06:35.340 would be able to come back at it

00:06:36.540 and left the party in a state of paralysis.

00:06:39.480 And I saw this by-election as a fight back against that

00:06:44.420 and to say, right, you be my judge. 0.95

00:06:48.000 You, the people, if you think I'm a crook and a rongan, 0.99

00:06:51.220 get rid of me in this election. 0.98

00:06:53.300 But if you don't think that,

00:06:55.540 and if you think the mainstream media are out of touch,

00:06:57.700 then vote for me on what is now August the 13th.

00:07:01.200 Because it seems to me, and we're going to touch on the by-election,

00:07:03.760 but just coming back to Anne's murder very briefly,

00:07:07.220 this does seem like a watershed moment in British politics.

00:07:10.480 We obviously had the murder of Sir David Amess and Joe Cox before that.

00:07:15.300 But this is potentially, and I use the word potentially,

00:07:19.020 the first act of left-wing terrorism

00:07:22.660 that certainly I can remember in this country, maybe ever. 0.80

00:07:26.980 Yes, I mean, the guy that killed Joe Cox was sort of a nationalist nutjob. 0.67

00:07:33.300 The murder of David Amos was an Islamist, a clear Islamist murder.

00:07:40.160 Yeah, we're not used to the concept in recent times at all of left-wing terrorism, 0.97

00:07:45.820 but it's pretty clearly what it is.

00:07:47.440 But, you know, Adam Bolton, Peter Tatchell, other well-known figures in the wake of Anne's murder, just saying the most beastly things about her.

00:08:06.320 I mean, the old rule is if you can't say nice things about the dead, say nothing, which I think generally is actually quite a good rule.

00:08:12.320 And yet, they so believe in their own righteous virtue that they feel allowed to do these things.

00:08:22.300 And I do not know of a single significant conservative commentator, small-c conservative commentator,

00:08:30.160 who would ever say anything approaching that on the death of a senior left-wing public figure.

00:08:37.980 If Jeremy Corbyn died, I'd say, well, I didn't agree with him.

00:08:41.380 But you know what?

00:08:42.320 The man believed in what he believed in and fought for it for decades.

00:08:45.760 So there is a very big difference here

00:08:48.140 between how the right think and speak about the left

00:08:50.920 and how the left, including public figures,

00:08:53.880 now think and speak about the right.

00:08:56.560 And I think there will be a major reappraisal of all of this

00:08:59.680 in the wake of Anne's murder.

00:09:01.540 Well, I hope so, because I've been talking about this for a very long time.

00:09:05.460 I think particularly in the post-Charlie Kirk world,

00:09:08.500 I just don't think...

00:09:09.700 And you look at the facts of this, 1.00

00:09:11.580 the Gen Z are seven times more likely to believe

00:09:14.800 than people of your generation. 0.90

00:09:16.560 The political violence is sometimes justified.

00:09:19.020 I don't think people understand the world we're living in.

00:09:21.420 And I'm quite relieved, actually,

00:09:22.940 that it seems like both Shabana Mahmood,

00:09:24.760 the Home Secretary, and Andy Burnham

00:09:26.840 are starting to take this more seriously.

00:09:30.680 And it comes back to some, you know,

00:09:33.120 you mentioned the constant attacks

00:09:35.320 and questions about reform.

00:09:38.000 And I think it's undoubtedly the case

00:09:40.800 that a lot of that has been really unfair

00:09:43.020 and completely out of proportion

00:09:45.040 to the questions that are being raised.

00:09:46.520 Some of that I think we do need to talk about,

00:09:48.200 and we will.

00:09:49.200 But, you know, the security situation

00:09:51.980 speaks to the point you made about

00:09:54.340 the gift you were given

00:09:55.360 that there's been a lot of questions about.

00:09:57.620 I was doing a back-of-the-envelope calculation

00:09:59.880 of how much it might cost

00:10:00.940 to have a five-man security team 24 hours.

00:10:03.700 You're looking at millions of pounds a year,

00:10:05.500 potentially, right?

00:10:06.980 So just to keep a person safe.

00:10:08.540 And as we're recording this,

00:10:10.320 This will go out a couple of days after.

00:10:12.260 But as we're recording this,

00:10:13.580 a news story is breaking about a man

00:10:15.160 who's been arrested for threatening to kill you.

00:10:17.660 And the Times, I think it is the Times,

00:10:20.320 the hated Times,

00:10:21.460 nonetheless reported that you've received

00:10:23.040 more than 500 death threats in recent times.

00:10:26.880 I mean, this is very serious.

00:10:29.120 Oh, it's serious, all right.

00:10:30.940 It's been serious in my case since 2013.

00:10:34.120 But no one cared.

00:10:35.900 No one cared. 1.00

00:10:36.760 It's Faraj, no one cared. 1.00

00:10:38.580 Begging Home Secretary. 0.99

00:10:39.820 to provide some form of intelligence support

00:10:43.580 and physical support.

00:10:45.340 Home secretary, after home secretary,

00:10:47.300 we asked, not interested.

00:10:50.060 Not interested.

00:10:51.360 But now it's not just me.

00:10:53.140 Now it's a whole group of political leaders

00:10:55.860 within reform,

00:10:58.160 several of whom are now well-known public figures.

00:11:01.000 And now they are beginning,

00:11:02.640 in the wake of Anne's murder,

00:11:05.500 to take this seriously.

00:11:06.980 So this morning,

00:11:07.800 somebody has been arrested

00:11:09.940 or a series of social media posts

00:11:13.120 in which he says 0.99

00:11:13.800 he wants to shoot me in the head. 1.00

00:11:16.040 Let me tell you 0.99

00:11:18.080 we have reported to the Met

00:11:20.580 in the past

00:11:21.860 whole lists

00:11:23.100 of similar threats made against me

00:11:26.420 which we were told

00:11:27.880 did not meet the threshold.

00:11:32.340 Did not meet the threshold.

00:11:35.300 And yet when Lucy Connolly

00:11:36.460 puts out an intemperate tweet 1.00

00:11:39.120 and then removes it four hours later, 0.97

00:11:42.680 she ends up going to prison.

00:11:44.620 So the approach to all of this,

00:11:47.540 you know, gets to the roots of two-tier policing,

00:11:49.640 two-tier justice, two-tier attitudes

00:11:52.060 towards the way that we look at things.

00:11:55.660 Maybe, maybe,

00:11:58.340 after the horrific

00:11:59.560 and deeply upsetting murder of Anne,

00:12:03.080 maybe something good will come of it.

00:12:06.460 Maybe the police in this country will start to take threats,

00:12:12.720 public and political figures, equally regardless of their opinions

00:12:16.800 and which side of the spectrum they're on.

00:12:18.880 So I'm pleased the police have arrested one.

00:12:21.740 If they do another 300 in the next week, I'll have real confidence.

00:12:26.720 So, it's a fair point.

00:12:30.340 So, Nigel, you were sitting in Clacton here.

00:12:33.340 You've called the by-election.

00:12:35.140 This obviously happened mere days, actually, before Anne's murder.

00:12:42.020 Why is it that you called that by-election?

00:12:44.380 What made you decide that?

00:12:46.160 Because I just can't put up with being called guilty every day.

00:12:51.200 You know, guilty, guilty, guilty.

00:12:52.880 Everything I've ever said and done, I'm guilty.

00:12:55.060 You know, I've had no chance to really fight back at all,

00:12:58.340 even when you try to.

00:12:59.720 No one takes it seriously.

00:13:01.260 So, you know what?

00:13:02.320 this is a concerted attempt

00:13:04.460 to get me out of public life

00:13:06.120 that's what it is

00:13:06.900 because they know after May the 7th

00:13:09.700 that actually via the ballot box

00:13:11.960 our support is there

00:13:13.520 and it's solid

00:13:14.340 so sully the reputation

00:13:15.880 try and drag reform down in the polls

00:13:18.160 put them in an impossible position

00:13:19.940 get rid of Nigel

00:13:21.220 and it'll all be okay

00:13:22.300 that's what's going on

00:13:23.980 perfectly clear to me

00:13:25.200 the level of coordination is astonishing

00:13:27.080 and the leaks

00:13:29.220 of information from the National Crime Agency

00:13:32.200 are just astonishing.

00:13:35.080 They do the ins and outs of bank payments

00:13:37.480 of all the senior figures in reform.

00:13:41.440 And it's made out,

00:13:42.800 ah, it went to the National Crime Agency

00:13:45.320 because they're clearly being looked at

00:13:47.460 because they're suspect dudes

00:13:49.140 or funded by the Kremlin

00:13:50.580 or whatever theory is doing the rounds at that time.

00:13:54.160 Fact is that our anti-money laundering regulations

00:13:56.400 are so insane,

00:13:59.020 something that I exposed when I fought the banks

00:14:00.960 back in 2023,

00:14:02.920 but 800,000 bank transactions a year

00:14:05.940 get reported to the National Crime Agency.

00:14:09.240 If you received an unusual payment

00:14:10.820 in your account tomorrow,

00:14:12.340 you know, I don't know,

00:14:13.860 a gift from a family member or whatever

00:14:15.840 into your bank account,

00:14:17.560 that would get referred to the NCA.

00:14:19.780 And then from the NCA,

00:14:21.360 all this stuff gets leaked to the press.

00:14:24.340 And I find that pretty unacceptable as well.

00:14:28.160 It is.

00:14:28.780 And I think you've, like I said,

00:14:30.800 I think you've received a lot of very unfair criticism.

00:14:33.200 But I do think there's a couple of,

00:14:34.740 we both think there's a couple of issues

00:14:36.300 where the leak point, I totally accept, by the way,

00:14:39.480 and it's something that troubles me.

00:14:41.060 And Dominic Cummings did warn you.

00:14:42.820 He did say they will break the law,

00:14:44.820 they will do whatever they can.

00:14:46.180 I hate to sit here and say Cummings was right,

00:14:50.700 you know, but actually the warning he gave

00:14:52.520 was a very good one.

00:14:53.640 And he said they'll break the law and do whatever.

00:14:56.120 However, I think there are two questions

00:14:58.440 that genuinely are worth asking.

00:15:00.600 Number one is this five million pound gift. Personally, I don't give a shit about people who give money to other people. It's not something that particularly interests me. But what I think is of interest to the public is whether any strings attached is your pushing of crypto with the Bank of England connected with that gift. 0.97

00:15:16.880 um that is one question and the other question is the posh george thing which is this is a friend

00:15:24.000 of yours who gave money to both you and reform gave in kind things to both you and reform

00:15:29.260 uh he was convicted of wire fraud in the u.s well louise hay is a convicted fraudster about to go

00:15:36.420 in andy burnham's cabinet but does every bbc news report say convicted frauds in louise hay do they

00:15:42.940 hell. It does not. Let's deal with it. It's a fair question. It's a fair question. We've

00:15:47.200 always treated you fairly. No, no, no, no. But I'm just making the point. George, as a young

00:15:52.860 man, got into trouble in America. If you are involved in tax avoidance schemes, it is very

00:15:59.420 easy in America to get into very, very big trouble. So he has a conviction. Maybe that

00:16:06.200 conviction will be pardoned one day. I don't know. That conviction is spent. There used to

00:16:12.120 be a thing in Britain called the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, 1974. It meant that people

00:16:19.060 actually, once they'd done their time, were forgiven and given a second chance in life.

00:16:24.140 He was 20, 21. At the time this happened, he went to prison in America. He came back

00:16:33.420 and everyone said to me, oh, you must never see him again. You must never speak to him again.

00:16:37.980 Well, I don't do that. I don't dump people. I do actually believe in Christian forgiveness.

00:16:44.120 I think it's part of what we are as a community, as a society. There are many, many people

00:16:49.080 who fell off the rails as young men or women who have gone on to achieve great things in life

00:16:55.960 for themselves and their communities. So that's the first point I want to make.

00:17:00.060 I've stood loyally with George because I think he deserves a second chance.

00:17:04.340 he is of course an enormously colorful character you know and and i mean great press all the with

00:17:12.880 the girlfriends he's had and the things he's done and and all of it you know he's a very colorful

00:17:17.620 character and you know hesketh's his uncle of formula one and mum dated the man that's now

00:17:24.760 the king and so of course there are great reasons why he's a person of interest um but

00:17:30.560 But the idea that in 2023 and 2024, when I was out of politics, that I perched in an office in one of his London homes and that he helped me with a camera crew so that I could go out into the English Channel, remember, and film the boats and advertise what was going on and try and give a warning to the nation.

00:17:55.660 At that period of my life, from 2021 to the 3rd of June, 2024, I was a broadcaster.

00:18:05.680 I was someone that appeared on celebrity TV programs, right?

00:18:10.640 I was somebody that promoted some financial market products, but I was an influencer.

00:18:17.260 You know, I had a considerable, even then, over 5 million social media following, and I was doing it.

00:18:23.120 So the fact that George, you know, did me a favour with those things

00:18:26.480 is not a matter of public interest or record.

00:18:29.980 It's irrelevant.

00:18:31.080 I wasn't in politics.

00:18:33.080 It is literally no one's business.

00:18:35.920 It is totally undeclarable in every single way.

00:18:38.900 And what they've written and said about since I came back on the 3rd of June,

00:18:45.100 I've taken nothing from them since the 3rd of June.

00:18:47.740 And he hasn't given Manal to the party or any of these things.

00:18:51.900 And the idea that his donation, or his mother's donation, this was reported to the NCA in September

00:19:00.060 2024. The police followed up in the spring of 2025. Why is it now a story? It's now a story

00:19:09.300 because everything is being coordinated together to try and knock us out of the game. And that's

00:19:14.920 why I'm fighting this by-election. I'm fighting this by-election because I'm saying, let the

00:19:19.800 people decide now on the other issues that you can we just pause on the post george thing very

00:19:23.960 quickly so just to be clear because this is different to my understanding but i'm happy to

00:19:28.100 be corrected he hasn't given any money to you since you came back into politics or any in kind

00:19:33.560 things and not nor to the party so this is all related to the period when you won in politics

00:19:38.440 absolutely okay the only other question i had on that i've i was reading a biography of yours

00:19:44.340 Oh, there are lots of those.

00:19:46.820 And actually, the one thing that comes out of it

00:19:51.200 from the telling of the biographer in that case

00:19:54.180 was that you actually, you can be pretty ruthless

00:19:56.400 when people, you know, stray off of the reservation,

00:20:00.740 so to speak, and Godfrey Bloom might say,

00:20:02.660 you know, loyalty is, you know,

00:20:04.480 something Nigel is selective about.

00:20:06.700 No, no, I'm fiercely loyal to everybody

00:20:08.700 until they're disloyal to me.

00:20:10.840 And then it's over. Boom, done, gone.

00:20:12.220 And that's why the people around me, you know many of them, been around me for a very, very long time.

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00:21:04.700 policygenius.com trig to compare life insurance quotes from the top companies and see how much

00:21:10.540 you could save. That's policygenius.com slash trig. Okay, now let's come back to the gift

00:21:17.600 and the strings attached and the crypto stuff and the lobbying. Well, let's deal with it

00:21:21.300 separately. Number one, Christopher Harbourn is an immensely successful man. We all say crypto,

00:21:30.480 but actually that is but a part of what this guy does. There are some things that are known in

00:21:37.940 public, such as his big stake that he holds in Kinetic, the defense technology company.

00:21:46.900 I think he probably owns the biggest jet refueling operation in the world, plus his crypto

00:21:53.340 investments and things he's in.

00:21:54.920 So they're some of the things that he does, but he does much, much more than that.

00:22:00.980 He's my age.

00:22:03.000 Went to school about three miles down the road from me.

00:22:06.040 Not dissimilar backgrounds.

00:22:07.580 You know, he was a city trader, as I was in the early years.

00:22:12.960 And we have similar backgrounds.

00:22:14.580 The difference is, he's sane, so he stayed in business.

00:22:19.820 And I'm loopy, so I gave it all up to do politics and become a member of the European

00:22:25.580 Parliament.

00:22:26.560 Christopher was politically radicalized by the Maastricht Treaty.

00:22:31.220 I know that to your generation, this is ancient history.

00:22:33.540 But to some of us, this was the moment when the free trade club we joined went from being

00:22:39.560 an European economic community to a European community, to a European union with a flag

00:22:46.900 and an anthem, and for many of us, that was it.

00:22:50.800 So we both became politically radicalized at exactly that same period in time.

00:22:57.120 He's obviously someone I know as a friend and know very, very well.

00:23:03.540 He gave me this gift.

00:23:05.980 Asked for it.

00:23:07.540 He'd given Boris a gift, by the way, a couple of years before.

00:23:10.800 That doesn't get talked about, does it?

00:23:12.480 How much was it for?

00:23:14.240 Just every million, I believe.

00:23:15.600 Wow.

00:23:16.160 That's pretty good money as well.

00:23:17.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:19.000 So he gave me a gift.

00:23:20.560 A gift.

00:23:21.560 Hey, you know what?

00:23:23.620 It's like winning the lottery.

00:23:26.200 I mean, it's a very serious sum of money.

00:23:28.660 And it's almost a sum of money

00:23:30.220 that has caused the controversy as much as anything else.

00:23:33.540 until you start to think through

00:23:35.160 what the implications of having security are.

00:23:39.360 So he gave me this big gift,

00:23:41.540 and I have a legal document.

00:23:44.240 It is unconditional.

00:23:47.120 I can do what I like with it.

00:23:48.740 I can spend it on the horses.

00:23:50.080 I can go and buy a Ferrari.

00:23:51.660 I can do what I like with it.

00:23:54.380 It's an unconditional gift,

00:23:56.140 but on the understanding

00:23:58.660 that I will need, I'm afraid,

00:24:02.020 given the way the world is now,

00:24:03.540 to have protection until the end of my days.

00:24:08.880 And that there are others close to me

00:24:14.680 that will need, do need now, a degree of protection.

00:24:21.700 So it's unconditional gift, but for me,

00:24:24.420 that money is there to look after me until I die.

00:24:29.340 So there is a, and frankly, and when it comes death,

00:24:32.520 is 5 million, quite good reasons.

00:24:36.060 Perhaps in hindsight,

00:24:37.860 for why he gave me that gift.

00:24:39.920 Now,

00:24:40.940 have I broken the law? No.

00:24:44.340 Have I broken tax law? No.

00:24:47.200 Have I fiddled my expenses? No.

00:24:50.560 Have I misused public money? No.

00:24:54.380 By the way, my personal MP expenses

00:24:57.180 for the last two years are zero.

00:25:00.980 I claim nothing.

00:25:01.920 I don't need to.

00:25:02.520 I've got outside income. I'm reasonably well off. I don't need to unnecessarily take money

00:25:07.480 off the state. What is my crime? What is my sin? Well, my sin is that the rules of procedure

00:25:17.780 or parliamentary standards, which, by the way, state explicitly that these rules that cover

00:25:26.800 your conduct in public life, not in your private life, say that any political donations

00:25:36.320 that you've received in the preceding year have to be declared. Okay. So I get elected

00:25:45.280 on July 4th and I've got to go in and meet the people you deal with outside income, et cetera.

00:25:58.000 I mean, within 10 minutes, I'm Terry Mehera. So you're telling me I have to record all my gross

00:26:04.480 income, including VAT, but without the cost of running the company. Yeah. I mean,

00:26:09.400 the commons is not designed for anybody in business. If I say to anybody, if you've got

00:26:14.620 know, if you've got a business, forget it. I mean, the whole thing's impossible. So you're declaring

00:26:19.600 all your gross income, not your net income, etc. But of course, this issue came up. So what did I

00:26:25.360 do? I went to a top international lawyer and said, look, you tell me what to do. You tell me what to

00:26:31.280 do. Is this something I should declare or not? And his advice to me was, no, this gift is

00:26:38.340 unconditional. It's not political. It's not related to political campaigning. It's not related to

00:26:43.840 building political offices. It's not related to employing staff or political campaigning

00:26:49.660 or any of these things. You do not need to declare it, which is why I didn't declare it.

00:26:54.580 Okay. Then what happens? And frankly, I didn't think I'd ever hear any more about it until the

00:27:03.100 NCA leak it to The Guardian. They publish it. There's a huge furore. So the question is,

00:27:11.400 How will standards find, you know, a committee

00:27:16.100 with four Labour MPs, one Liberal Democrat?

00:27:21.900 We couldn't make this up, really.

00:27:23.640 And one Conservative.

00:27:25.200 I don't know.

00:27:25.880 The problem is they can make a decision.

00:27:31.000 I believe if they're objective, they'll say,

00:27:33.960 unusual, a large sum of money,

00:27:37.080 but frankly within the rules,

00:27:39.600 or they can be subjective

00:27:41.420 and try and make life very difficult for them.

00:27:44.220 The question that will be on people's minds,

00:27:47.780 and I think you're right,

00:27:49.060 the amount is so significant that it's,

00:27:52.760 you know, to the ordinary person

00:27:53.760 who earns 30 grand a year,

00:27:54.900 it's a sum of money that's unimaginable.

00:27:56.820 I get that.

00:27:58.560 Is what is this guy buying by giving it to you?

00:28:01.240 That's what people will think.

00:28:02.560 Okay.

00:28:03.800 Nobody can buy me.

00:28:05.940 Nobody can bully me.

00:28:07.920 Nobody can tell me what to say.

00:28:10.260 You want some evidence of that?

00:28:12.300 Elon Musk.

00:28:14.480 Elon Musk, who was holding out offers,

00:28:16.900 potentially, of very large sums of money.

00:28:19.480 Not for me, but for the party.

00:28:22.240 But he asked me to do a series of things,

00:28:24.360 to say a series of things.

00:28:25.120 What happened with Elon, by the way?

00:28:26.480 Why did you fall out?

00:28:27.780 Because he wanted me to come out publicly

00:28:29.500 and support Tommy Robinson.

00:28:31.860 And I said, I can't do that.

00:28:34.100 I said, you know, he wanted me to come out,

00:28:36.720 and talk about deportations of illegals

00:28:40.880 before we had a plan.

00:28:43.700 You know, when you're beginning,

00:28:47.440 you know, an agitator,

00:28:48.880 you can say, let's deport the world.

00:28:51.320 Right?

00:28:52.280 Great for cliques.

00:28:53.860 If you're a political party

00:28:55.260 leading the opinion polls

00:28:57.580 for 350 consecutive opinion polls in a row,

00:29:01.820 if you're going to make big statements like this,

00:29:03.500 you need to show you've done some maths,

00:29:06.020 some homework and thought it through.

00:29:09.360 Now, we did, in fact, in the end,

00:29:11.700 a few months after the fallout with Musk,

00:29:14.260 publish Operation Restoring Justice

00:29:16.020 with Zia Yusuf at the head of it,

00:29:18.340 which actually showed what the command structure would be

00:29:21.460 and how this would operate with the aim

00:29:23.900 of deporting up to 600,000 people

00:29:26.460 who've entered Britain illegally.

00:29:28.840 But, you know, I could have just done what you wanted.

00:29:32.220 Right? I could have just said what you wanted,

00:29:33.780 no problem

00:29:34.900 would have taken the money

00:29:36.620 everything would have been lovely

00:29:38.180 but the point I'm making is

00:29:40.620 you can't tell me what to do or say

00:29:42.060 Christopher in return

00:29:43.720 wants nothing from me

00:29:46.200 other than me to be secure

00:29:48.580 and safe

00:29:49.720 and not to have to worry about money

00:29:51.420 and I don't now ever

00:29:52.980 have to worry about money

00:29:54.380 as long as I live

00:29:55.480 I'm not going to be fearful

00:29:57.020 can I afford a driver

00:29:58.500 when I'm 84 if I get there

00:30:00.780 and long left public life

00:30:03.660 But because of the online world,

00:30:05.760 nothing will die anymore, will it, in terms of stories?

00:30:07.920 Do you know what I mean?

00:30:08.960 Kind of, you know, ex-politicians, ex-footballers,

00:30:12.080 20 years on could walk down the street,

00:30:14.160 no one knew who they were.

00:30:16.320 But because of the online world,

00:30:18.620 you know, those of us that have been seen to be controversial

00:30:20.700 will have to live with that forever.

00:30:22.740 So I'm enormously, by the way,

00:30:24.000 I'm enormously grateful to him for doing this.

00:30:26.040 It takes such a weight off my mind.

00:30:27.660 Between 2021 and 2024,

00:30:30.420 I was paying for all my insecurity during that.

00:30:32.840 I mean, it was costing me a fortune.

00:30:34.760 Now, I had much lower level of security

00:30:36.420 because my profile was down,

00:30:38.360 but it's still very, very expensive indeed.

00:30:41.400 And yes, he's made money in crypto.

00:30:43.460 You're absolutely right.

00:30:45.320 And yes, I've been an advocate for crypto since 2019.

00:30:49.540 This isn't going away.

00:30:51.700 It's not going away.

00:30:53.140 I firmly believe it's not going away.

00:30:56.300 The price may be wildly volatile, and it is.

00:31:01.000 But in terms of usage, just go to Miami.

00:31:05.260 Have I got the ATM machine?

00:31:07.260 They're all Bitcoin.

00:31:09.100 It's all Bitcoin to dollar.

00:31:11.120 So you take out a fraction of a Bitcoin onto your card.

00:31:16.080 You pay in Starbucks.

00:31:17.700 You pay the hotel bill.

00:31:19.660 You buy a new car.

00:31:21.560 This stuff now actually is having usage around the world.

00:31:25.180 And the worse and worse the banks behave,

00:31:27.000 the worse and worse they behave the more debanking whether it's for political reasons or it's for

00:31:34.560 anti-money laundering reasons uh goes on the more attractive bitcoin becomes as a means of exchange

00:31:39.700 and you know you and i want to do a transaction we can do it together in bitcoin you know we're

00:31:44.900 both big boys we're grown ups so i've long believed in it and what upsets me is you know i come from

00:31:51.700 a long line of people who worked in the city of London, worked in financial markets. The reason

00:31:57.140 that London always did well wasn't because people wore bowler hats and it looked traditional and

00:32:02.140 wonderful, lovely though all that was. It was a place of innovation. London was always the first

00:32:09.860 with new financial products, with new financial markets. That's why we were world leaders at so

00:32:15.500 many things. And this whole space, this whole space of crypto, of stable coins, the means where

00:32:25.140 money passes in and out of traditional currencies and through into crypto and back, which is by the

00:32:32.840 way fast, don't have the huge charges you have for many other forms of financial transaction and

00:32:39.400 No wonder it's booming, you know, backed by blockchain the way that it is.

00:32:44.360 It's always seemed to me this was the perfect space for London to become a global centre

00:32:50.900 because there is demand for this stuff all over the world.

00:32:55.540 And as it stands today, we do not have an exchange-traded, regulated crypto product of any kind at all.

00:33:06.440 people think oh nigel's arguing for the wild west no i'm arguing for a regulated

00:33:12.760 crypto market it's the wild west now now you can buy bitcoin or ethereum you know online

00:33:22.560 from a provider that goes out of business you've got no protection of any kind at all

00:33:26.860 they're not regulated uh i mean all sorts of terrible scams have happened in this space what

00:33:33.280 i'm arguing for is a regulated market what i'm arguing for is is that this is here to stay it's

00:33:40.700 a big thing of the future we should be in the vanguard we should be in the lead and despite

00:33:45.500 the fact we haven't got these things already seven million seven million british people

00:33:50.500 have digital assets of some kind and when i swear to see the government of the bank of england

00:33:56.380 And, well, we disagreed on virtually everything.

00:34:02.460 He's a very lovely man.

00:34:04.500 Don't misunderstand me.

00:34:06.440 But we disagreed on Brexit.

00:34:07.960 We disagreed on everything.

00:34:09.740 You know, and he'd said that no individual

00:34:12.100 should be able to hold more than $20,000 worth of stable coins,

00:34:16.280 to which I said, well, that means most of my friends

00:34:18.020 will have to leave the country.

00:34:19.780 He said, you're a dinosaur, Andrew. 0.98

00:34:22.120 You're a dinosaur.

00:34:23.260 This is happening.

00:34:24.680 Now, of course, that then gets painted.

00:34:27.600 But I'm lobbying on behalf of a cryptocurrency guy.

00:34:31.280 Well, how?

00:34:32.480 Whether London has a regulated market or not

00:34:35.000 doesn't affect the price of Ethereum or Bitcoin.

00:34:38.960 He holds this stuff.

00:34:41.100 It doesn't affect the price of it.

00:34:42.560 It just means that more of the transactions in it

00:34:44.800 could be done in London

00:34:46.280 rather than in the Wild West

00:34:48.500 or other financial exchanges around the world.

00:34:51.920 And those that argue that somehow I'm trying to manipulate the process on behalf of my friend, frankly, don't understand how it works.

00:35:01.960 I resisted creatine for years because I assumed it was for people who spend three hours a day in the gym and refer to themselves in the third person.

00:35:10.700 Turns out Francis Foster was wrong on this one.

00:35:13.560 The research on creatine has moved way beyond the gym.

00:35:16.380 For years, it was a preserve of bodybuilders and sprinters, but it turns out creatine is

00:35:21.480 something your body makes naturally and uses as fuel, not just for your muscles, but for

00:35:26.980 your brain, your energy levels, your mood, your memory.

00:35:29.740 The problem is that from your 40s onwards, your body produces less and less of it, and

00:35:35.420 you feel it.

00:35:36.100 The slower recovery, the afternoon fog, the sense that you're running on slightly less

00:35:40.960 than you used to.

00:35:41.820 Talk to anyone who actually knows this stuff, and they'll tell you the same thing.

00:35:46.380 not all creatine is equal. And most of it isn't doing what you think it is. The formula matters,

00:35:52.880 specifically where it actually gets into your cells and activates once it's there. That's

00:35:58.560 exactly what Qualia Creatine Plus is built around. Two clinically studied forms of creatine combined

00:36:05.520 with electrolytes and sea salt designed to solve the whole problem, not just half of it. I've just

00:36:11.580 started taking it. And once you understand how the formulation works, you wonder why nobody built

00:36:17.920 it this way sooner. Go to qualialife.com slash trig for 50% off and use the code trig for an

00:36:25.960 extra 15% on top of that. That's Q-U-A-L-I-A-L-I-E.com slash trig, code trig. Thanks to Qualia for

00:36:38.640 sponsoring the show i mean the reality is though that this by-election hasn't it hasn't gone to

00:36:45.240 plan has it because of the fact that the other major political parties are not submitting

00:36:50.940 candidates it's not a good look is it not for them no it's extraordinary uh do you know the

00:36:57.140 conservative party in this seat in 2019 just seven years ago got 31 000 votes 31 000 votes

00:37:07.060 72% of the vote.

00:37:11.340 I think it's their second safest seat in the whole of Britain.

00:37:14.880 And you read the newspapers.

00:37:16.960 There's a huge chemi bounce going on.

00:37:19.540 Oh, it's off the charts. 0.85

00:37:20.720 She's amazing.

00:37:23.520 Oh, yes.

00:37:24.600 Telegraph, Times, Mail. 1.00

00:37:26.080 I mean, this woman is sweeping the floor with everybody else.

00:37:31.000 The Tories are on their way back to number 10.

00:37:33.280 He's being sarcastic for the Americans.

00:37:34.660 Well, if that was true, they'd fancy their chances here, wouldn't they? 0.91

00:37:40.580 Yeah.

00:37:41.120 Because they could publicly take me on.

00:37:43.320 They could raise the questions that you've raised with me in our discussion today.

00:37:48.280 They could prove me wrong, or think they could prove me wrong.

00:37:50.800 I don't think they would.

00:37:52.040 And they could win this seat.

00:37:54.020 And then reform would be seriously damaged.

00:37:55.580 So why aren't they standing?

00:37:57.380 Why aren't they standing?

00:37:58.960 Because they know they get wiped.

00:38:00.400 despite 30,000 votes

00:38:03.640 seven years ago

00:38:05.240 they know they would not beat me

00:38:06.940 and that's why they're not standing

00:38:08.360 and the level of collusion

00:38:10.240 between restore

00:38:12.420 the Tories is astonishing

00:38:14.740 sort of mirror statements

00:38:17.020 from Kemi and Rupert

00:38:18.640 and Labour

00:38:22.020 new leader

00:38:22.960 doesn't want to lead a party

00:38:24.560 that's going to lose its deposit

00:38:25.620 because the maker field message is

00:38:27.000 we can beat reform

00:38:29.360 um so yeah i'm disappointed i'm disappointed uh it would be more exciting as a contest if

00:38:37.180 there were jeopardy but it's still a real election how is it that josh simons volunteering to stand

00:38:47.500 aside in makerfield is a legitimate by-election and me saying to the people with this constituency

00:38:54.220 do you think I'm a crook or not, isn't, is extraordinary.

00:38:58.860 And for them not to stand, frankly,

00:39:02.120 I just think they're showing contempt for the electorate.

00:39:04.880 So I'd rather there was jeopardy.

00:39:07.160 I'd rather there was a big challenger.

00:39:09.820 It would be a lot more exciting if there was,

00:39:12.020 but it is what it is, and I will campaign in this by-election

00:39:14.720 to get as big an endorsement as I possibly can.

00:39:18.120 Because the worry is it's, well, the two candidates

00:39:21.300 are you and a joke candidate.

00:39:23.480 Let's be fair about that.

00:39:25.120 It must be...

00:39:26.480 It's not particularly edifying

00:39:28.300 that every time your name gets mentioned

00:39:30.760 in reference to the by-election,

00:39:32.720 the comedy characters then reference at the same time.

00:39:35.080 Well, that's why they've done it.

00:39:36.320 That's why they've done it.

00:39:37.720 But I think it reflects more on them than it does on me.

00:39:40.480 And I was actually...

00:39:41.160 I was looking at...

00:39:41.840 I mean, there's a lot of the commentary

00:39:43.520 talking about it like it's sort of like a...

00:39:46.340 You know, Count Benfist has a real chance of winning.

00:39:48.660 I mean, I looked at Calciards.

00:39:50.340 it's like 90 odd percent that you know it's not a serious it's becoming not a serious thing 0.98

00:39:56.160 what if anybody on 10 percent the bim face wants to place some money i'm quite happy to lay all of 0.70

00:40:01.080 it probably illegal but i'm saying that in private um yeah it is ridiculous and i you know i'd also 0.58

00:40:10.240 say i mean yeah it does show a level of content so what they're trying to do by doing this they're

00:40:16.340 trying to make the number of votes I get be as low as possible.

00:40:19.400 And the problem I've got is on my doorstep.

00:40:22.360 People say, well, Nige, we love you, 0.99

00:40:23.820 but you're going to walk it, aren't you? 1.00

00:40:26.240 You're going to walk it.

00:40:27.340 So without that jeopardy,

00:40:28.720 it makes it harder for me to get the vote out.

00:40:31.120 I get that. I understand that.

00:40:32.840 I can see their cynicism and why they've done it.

00:40:35.600 But look, all you can do is your best.

00:40:37.340 And by the way, I have stood in the past

00:40:39.300 against the original great screaming Lord Saj.

00:40:43.140 I've stood against the pub landlord 1.00

00:40:44.820 and now BinFace. 1.00

00:40:46.560 So I've got the full, full fluff 0.97

00:40:48.900 of these candidates. 0.50

00:40:51.320 And by the way, BinFace 0.51

00:40:52.480 isn't really just a...

00:40:54.180 He's a left-wing BBC comedy writer

00:40:57.760 who's anti-Brexit.

00:40:59.680 So there's a bit more politics there.

00:41:01.220 Aren't they all?

00:41:01.900 Well, BBC certainly.

00:41:04.100 Yeah.

00:41:04.520 Look, I'd rather it wasn't that way.

00:41:06.340 I agree with you.

00:41:07.660 Do you know what I found quite interesting

00:41:09.200 is when I looked at everybody pulling out,

00:41:12.860 I was like, okay,

00:41:14.060 I understand the tactics.

00:41:15.440 When the Greens didn't run, I was like, boys, girls,

00:41:18.960 whatever you want to...

00:41:19.720 Controversial.

00:41:22.480 But I was like, guys, this would be the moment.

00:41:25.400 You could...

00:41:26.580 Because what you could do is you could garner

00:41:29.040 not the pro-Green vote, which, let's be fair,

00:41:31.940 it's a small minority, passionate though they may be.

00:41:34.600 You could market it as the anti-Farage vote.

00:41:37.980 And there's an outside chance you could win

00:41:40.280 or certainly do some damage here.

00:41:41.840 Yeah, and the Greens, too.

00:41:43.640 behaving like the Union Party.

00:41:47.200 Behaving like the Union Party.

00:41:48.980 It's quite astonishing.

00:41:50.780 I agree with you.

00:41:51.760 I think if the Greens

00:41:52.520 had put a big run into this,

00:41:54.040 they could have got a big score.

00:41:55.660 And, Nigel, you mentioned

00:41:56.800 that you'd been leading the polls

00:41:58.320 and have been.

00:41:59.460 Again, like I was saying,

00:42:00.940 I was looking at Caltech.

00:42:01.780 I mean, you guys have been predicted

00:42:05.900 to win the next election.

00:42:07.460 And you've been leading that

00:42:08.600 until about three weeks ago,

00:42:09.640 at which point Labour took over

00:42:10.920 in the Caltech as I was looking at.

00:42:12.640 and it's stayed relatively close.

00:42:14.760 It's, I think, 37% versus 34%.

00:42:16.920 What do you attribute that flip to?

00:42:19.560 And do you think that will continue?

00:42:21.040 Well, Starmer going is obviously a plus.

00:42:23.700 I mean, you know, roll out the barrel.

00:42:26.140 I mean, let's have a party.

00:42:28.740 Yeah, people like things that are new.

00:42:31.980 Andy coming in is new.

00:42:34.820 That was attractive.

00:42:36.440 And, of course, the timing of him coming in

00:42:39.120 and us coming out of the cosh.

00:42:40.860 I mean, and the attempts to push Temi and all the rest of it.

00:42:45.320 I'm not overly worried about it.

00:42:47.020 I'm not overly worried about it.

00:42:48.080 I think the fundamental problems that the country faces

00:42:51.080 are not ones that he's going to be able to turn around.

00:42:55.320 And I think his early speeches and statements are just, well, vacuous.

00:43:01.620 Vacuous.

00:43:02.240 As if devolution of itself is going to improve things.

00:43:04.420 It can make things worse, for all I know.

00:43:07.420 um and i think the center of gravity of the parliamentary labor party has now gone so far

00:43:13.980 left of what we thought we were getting back in july 24 and i think there was a major financial

00:43:21.520 fiscal crisis coming i've said it since 2024 i've predicted since 2024 that the election would not go

00:43:29.280 all the way to 29 and just look at the numbers you know the five-year projecting borrowing

00:43:36.480 figures for this government are, two years in, out by 80%.

00:43:43.060 It's just astonishing.

00:43:48.480 I mean, they're going to have to find $120 billion quite quickly.

00:43:52.020 And it would seem they're not willing to cut benefits in any way at all, which means higher

00:43:59.580 taxes.

00:44:01.000 And we've reached the point on taxes where higher taxes mean lower revenues, not higher

00:44:05.980 revenues.

00:44:06.480 You get to that tipping point.

00:44:08.560 The Lafayette curve.

00:44:09.360 Yeah, where we're increasing taxes.

00:44:10.920 It just starts to actually go the other way.

00:44:13.320 And so I'm fearful, you know, and it isn't just, 0.73

00:44:15.600 it isn't just the non-doms and the wealthy leaving Britain. 0.95

00:44:20.660 I mean, the Tories started that.

00:44:22.220 Jeremy Hunt started that.

00:44:23.920 My real worry is the number of young people leaving.

00:44:27.540 Talented, you know, I'm talking sort of late 20s to late 30s,

00:44:32.000 people who perhaps have found their way in life or in their industry.

00:44:35.740 and think, you know what, I want to go on my own,

00:44:39.500 build my own business.

00:44:41.180 Well, I'll tell you what, Australia is much more attractive.

00:44:43.920 America is much more attractive.

00:44:45.480 There are many parts of the world that are far more attractive

00:44:47.800 right now than staying here.

00:44:49.960 So I see this exodus of talent, which really depresses me.

00:44:53.360 I can't see Burnham reversing any of that either.

00:44:55.640 So I think we're headed for a major, major financial crunch.

00:44:59.500 I don't think it's very far away.

00:45:01.640 So look, am I worried?

00:45:03.100 you know you have good times and bad times in politics we've had a remarkable run we have had

00:45:09.000 a remarkable run for a couple of years um but there is a baseline of support out there that

00:45:14.520 is still incredibly firm for us that is not going away uh and i think as a party you know over the

00:45:22.200 course of this year we built out with spokeswomen and spokesmen in different areas new leaders in

00:45:28.980 Scotland and Wales. I've been doing everything I can to stop it being a one-man band as CEO

00:45:36.060 of an organisation with a big budget. Most of my life for the last 18 months has been spent in the

00:45:41.720 office in London, not in Parliament, not out campaigning, but acting as CEO to make sure

00:45:47.320 we're building departments that really work. And I can see that that's actually come into fruition

00:45:52.040 in many, many ways.

00:45:54.160 And I think our basic slogan,

00:45:58.580 that Britain is broken,

00:46:00.260 Britain needs reform,

00:46:02.200 that hasn't gone away.

00:46:04.080 I still believe that's enormously powerful.

00:46:05.800 And I don't think you can even begin

00:46:09.040 to prescribe the right medicine for the country

00:46:13.220 until you're actually prepared to accept

00:46:15.340 how ill the patient is.

00:46:17.840 And I think the Conservatives and Labour Party

00:46:19.620 are both in denial over this.

00:46:22.040 They both say Britain isn't broken.

00:46:23.740 We've got our problems.

00:46:24.660 No, no, it's fundamentally broken.

00:46:26.880 Nothing works at any level.

00:46:29.560 And I think we're there.

00:46:31.260 We're not going to move from that position.

00:46:33.440 Our job, our job is to fully roll out a program

00:46:37.960 ahead of the next general election

00:46:39.980 that shows how it can be turned around,

00:46:43.140 explains to people that it won't be easy,

00:46:45.900 that gives them the hope and belief that it can be done.

00:46:48.480 that we get that right, we'll win the next election.

00:46:53.600 If you own gold, you probably bought it for the same reason I did. Because you looked at what

00:46:58.260 central banks are doing to currencies and decided you wanted something they can't print. Good

00:47:03.440 reasoning. But here's the thing nobody talks about after you make that decision. Your gold is just

00:47:08.080 sitting there. It's not doing anything. You're paying to store it. You're paying to insure it.

00:47:12.360 And in the meantime, it earns precisely nothing. Until now. What you're about to hear

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00:48:12.260 trigonometry. The concern must be, though, Nigel, is that Andy Burnham is going to come in and he's

00:48:19.580 a better politician than Starmer. He's more charismatic. He sounds better. He wears T-shirts.

00:48:25.000 He wears T-shirts. He likes the Stone Roses. Who doesn't like the Stone Roses?

00:48:29.560 But the problem must be, the worry must be, is that he has no mandate to rule. So he comes in

00:48:35.580 and in many ways is in his best interest to trigger a general election immediately because

00:48:40.920 the more he speaks, the more he's going to piss off certain elements of his party and the country

00:48:45.220 in general. I mean, he's already come out and said, you know, the way that the Labour Party

00:48:49.920 handled the Gaza situation was bad. Oh, yes, that's right. He's already

00:48:54.780 kowtowing to the Palestinian activists. So that being the case, isn't it in his interest to trigger

00:49:01.660 a general election ASAP? Yes, you would have thought so. Do you want him to? Interesting,

00:49:07.920 isn't it interesting isn't it just before i come back to that here we are in essex because the

00:49:13.480 ruling conservatives tried to stop the county council elections going ahead for two years in

00:49:19.500 a row they were only fought this year because of the court action that we at reform took she now

00:49:24.780 doesn't want a general election and won't put up a candidate in the clacton by-election it's sort

00:49:30.540 of almost like democracy only applies when it suits us i agree with you i think burnham's best

00:49:37.100 chance would be in the relatively early months. But you know what? If you're a career politician,

00:49:45.380 and he really is a career politician, this has been the whole of his life. He doesn't have,

00:49:50.480 you know, other business interests or other careers he could pursue, not from what I can

00:49:54.960 see anyway. You wait your whole life to become prime minister. You gamble it all and risk being

00:50:03.800 a PM for less, fewer days than Liz Truss. I just think that's where the human nature

00:50:08.660 bit gets in. You know, rationally, you're right. It sort of almost won't get better

00:50:15.000 than it is. But I don't think you'll do it. I don't think you'll do it. A little like

00:50:23.560 Gordon Brown didn't do it in 2008 and regretted that he didn't. I just cannot see him doing

00:50:30.640 I could be wrong, but that's just my feeling.

00:50:32.880 Nigel, do you worry about, I mean, we've talked...

00:50:35.340 Hang on, all these questions are, do I worry?

00:50:37.340 I mean, do I look like somebody who's worrying all the time?

00:50:40.360 Well, I wasn't going to ask you about you, actually,

00:50:42.560 but the state of the country in the sense of what you're talking about,

00:50:45.520 because you talk about the coming financial, the fiscal crisis,

00:50:48.320 which we've had plenty of guests on the show to talk about why that's coming.

00:50:51.580 And I do agree with you, it's inevitable.

00:50:54.820 And we've talked about violent extremism.

00:50:58.520 But what we haven't talked about is that

00:51:00.340 when things are bad economically,

00:51:01.960 extremism in general tends to rise.

00:51:03.660 And you see now with the rise of Restore

00:51:05.900 to the right of you,

00:51:07.560 and also on the far left now,

00:51:10.080 fairly extreme voices becoming prominent.

00:51:12.820 And I think it's a testament to the state of the country.

00:51:15.260 Is that something that, you know, you think about?

00:51:18.040 I'm worried about the rise of extremism.

00:51:19.760 Yes.

00:51:21.000 I'm also acutely worried about societal breakdown.

00:51:25.080 Yeah.

00:51:25.940 I've just, before I came to sit down, 1.00

00:51:27.400 see you chaps today. I've just been to a local business. About at half 11 last Friday, 0.99

00:51:36.180 five people broke in, started stealing stuff. They were disturbed. They went away. Cops came,

00:51:42.860 cops left. The five came back to take more stuff. The cops then didn't return, too busy.

00:51:50.440 But these five people were outed on a local Facebook group.

00:51:56.780 So we know the identities of the five of them.

00:51:59.960 They then returned the cash that had been stolen.

00:52:05.040 And the police had decided not to charge them.

00:52:08.520 I worry about societal breakdown.

00:52:11.020 I worry.

00:52:12.020 I was with somebody else this morning who said he was in Bristol at the weekend.

00:52:17.440 I saw a bloke in a supermarket with a rucksack,

00:52:22.120 filling it up with 40 quid bottles of gin.

00:52:24.880 We're still detectives saying, don't do that.

00:52:26.960 I just coolly walk out of the shop.

00:52:29.400 I worry about the societal breakdown,

00:52:32.660 the lack of sense of community,

00:52:34.840 the way that lawlessness is just expanding

00:52:40.000 in the most extraordinary way.

00:52:42.300 I worry about that too.

00:52:44.160 I really, I genuinely do.

00:52:46.600 Nigel, I want to get a few questions in from our supporters.

00:52:49.200 So before we head over to that, the last question, as you know, is always the same.

00:52:52.800 What's the one thing we're not talking about that we should be?

00:52:55.560 Before Nigel answers the final question at the end of the interview,

00:52:58.640 make sure to head over to our sub stack.

00:53:00.580 The link is in the description where you'll be able to see this.

00:53:04.820 Would you make amends with Rupert Lowe and work together with the Restore Party?

00:53:09.180 What is Reform's plan to bring back all the talent and capital

00:53:12.620 that have fled the country over the past decade?

00:53:14.760 Please paint us the picture of what it would be like when you're the PM locally, nationally and internationally.

00:53:21.160 The one thing we're not talking about enough, and I was inspired a bit on this by Francis

00:53:27.200 and the work you did about being a teacher in a London, out of London borough.

00:53:33.120 The one thing we're not talking about enough is the huge numbers of young kids

00:53:38.980 who've got great potential and great talent,

00:53:42.260 be it in academics, be it in sport,

00:53:44.280 be it in whatever field of life it may be,

00:53:47.280 who find themselves going to state schools

00:53:49.440 in Britain's cities,

00:53:52.320 which, frankly, in many areas,

00:53:54.500 barely look like Britain 1.00

00:53:55.420 because of all the different languages that are spoken 1.00

00:53:58.300 and because of the sort of breakdown of civility 0.96

00:54:01.280 and law and order and respect,

00:54:03.240 are not fulfilling their potential in life.

00:54:06.060 And even though this Labour government

00:54:08.160 tries to make it harder for anyone to be privately educated

00:54:11.280 with their VAT bills.

00:54:12.920 The 7% that go to private schools are now dominating Britain

00:54:16.680 in a way they haven't done for a very, very long time.

00:54:20.300 And so social mobility is going backwards and not forwards.

00:54:24.660 And there was a tragedy going on in education in Britain's cities

00:54:29.240 where people are not fulfilling their potential.

00:54:31.060 And that, for them, and for us as a country, is a disaster.

00:54:35.680 There you go, Nigel Farage, endorses uneducated by Francis Foster.

00:54:40.000 Available in all good bookshops, but sales might go down as well as up after this, if such a thing is possible.

00:54:47.280 Nigel, thanks for coming back on. It's always great to have you.

00:54:49.920 Head on over to triggerpod.co.uk where Nigel's going to answer a few of your questions.

00:54:56.360 Can you articulate examples of the laws and policies that you want to enact that would both demonstrate that you have compassion for non-native Brits

00:55:03.120 and that your intentions are fair and reasonable.

TRIGGERnometry - July 18, 2026

WORLD EXCLUSIVE： Nigel Farage SPEAKS OUT

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