WORLD EXCLUSIVE： Nigel Farage SPEAKS OUT
Episode Stats
Harmful content
Misogyny
4
sentences flagged
Toxicity
12
sentences flagged
Hate speech
26
sentences flagged
Summary
In the wake of the murder of Anne Whittacombe, there are many theories about the link between her death and the Posh George scandal, and the subsequent media frenzy surrounding it. This week, we speak to former Tory MP for Clacton-on-Wylde, Nigel Barker, to try and make sense of it all.
Transcript
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we were going to talk about the by-election but tragically that has been overshadowed by events
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particularly the murder of Ann Whittacombe what is your reaction to that the two are linked
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the two are directly linked I will need I'm afraid given the way the world is now
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to have protection until the end of my days and frankly Ann Whittacombe's death
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I think there are two questions that genuinely are worth asking.
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and the other question is the pos George thing,
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Well, hang on, Louise Hay is a convicted fraudster
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The reality is, though, that this by-election hasn't...
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Originally, when we first booked to do this interview,
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your resignation, the challenges both you and reform are facing.
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But tragically, that has been overshadowed by events
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in the previous week, particularly the murder of Anne Whittacombe.
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the full-scale attack on reform, which has really gone into gear since May the 7th. Why May the
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7th? Massive set of elections across the UK. We wipe out the Conservatives in East Anglia.
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Unbelievable. We take out Labour in the north of England, the Midlands. We make breakthroughs,
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big breakthroughs in Scotland and in Wales. And ever since that moment, the attacks on the party
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You know, I'm used to the rough and tumble of political debate.
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Actually, to some extent, that's what democracy is.
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You know, we have a pop at each other and let Joe Public make up their minds who they believe.
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But when it comes to stuff being published in mainstream national newspapers,
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Just simply not true or exaggerated beyond belief.
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What are you talking about that's not true, Nigel?
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And one little example is Posh George paid for all the computers in the Reform Office
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and did not. That was not declared in our donations. Well, the answer is, he didn't.
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So you tell the Sunday Times again and again and again, he didn't. They publish it. And then the
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Times Daily Editorial writes in its editorial. These are the serious questions. Just not true.
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And how are you connecting this to the murder, Anne?
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Do you know something that we don't about that murder?
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If you demonise, if you demonise people because, I don't know, in Anne's case,
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they don't believe in gay marriage, or they have strict views on abortion,
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or they believe in strict immigration controls.
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If you absolutely dehumanise people like this, is it surprising that living out there
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in the subculture, of those who spend their lives online
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I mean, just good ordinary folk are really hit by it.
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or should we just call them what they are, plod?
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that could have committed a burglary, you know.
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assassination of a political figure, and I would argue back to your question, directly downstream
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of the kind of campaign that is being waged against the entire reform agenda by many online,
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in mainstream media, and in the House of Commons every single week. And, you know, it's not that
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I'm afraid of criticism, but I mean, if we sought to demonize Diane Abbott or someone like that,
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I mean, we'd be made out to be the worst people in the world.
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I mean, can you imagine if the murderer was a Reform Party member?
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And it's why when people say to me, and commentators write,
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oh, well, Nigel Farage, you know, he's obviously losing his mind
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I'm getting really angry with journalists, particularly Times journalists.
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who choose to publish photographs of where my daughter lives.
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And I see what happened to Anne five days after that programme,
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So I called this by-election before Anne's murder,
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but I called this by-election because just the daily assault,
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the being found guilty in the media and in politics,
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And I saw this by-election as a fight back against that
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You, the people, if you think I'm a crook and a rongan,
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and if you think the mainstream media are out of touch,
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then vote for me on what is now August the 13th.
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Because it seems to me, and we're going to touch on the by-election,
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but just coming back to Anne's murder very briefly,
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this does seem like a watershed moment in British politics.
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We obviously had the murder of Sir David Amess and Joe Cox before that.
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But this is potentially, and I use the word potentially,
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that certainly I can remember in this country, maybe ever.
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Yes, I mean, the guy that killed Joe Cox was sort of a nationalist nutjob.
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The murder of David Amos was an Islamist, a clear Islamist murder.
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Yeah, we're not used to the concept in recent times at all of left-wing terrorism,
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But, you know, Adam Bolton, Peter Tatchell, other well-known figures in the wake of Anne's murder, just saying the most beastly things about her.
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I mean, the old rule is if you can't say nice things about the dead, say nothing, which I think generally is actually quite a good rule.
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And yet, they so believe in their own righteous virtue that they feel allowed to do these things.
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And I do not know of a single significant conservative commentator, small-c conservative commentator,
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who would ever say anything approaching that on the death of a senior left-wing public figure.
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If Jeremy Corbyn died, I'd say, well, I didn't agree with him.
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The man believed in what he believed in and fought for it for decades.
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between how the right think and speak about the left
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And I think there will be a major reappraisal of all of this
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Well, I hope so, because I've been talking about this for a very long time.
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I think particularly in the post-Charlie Kirk world,
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the Gen Z are seven times more likely to believe
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I don't think people understand the world we're living in.
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who's been arrested for threatening to kill you.
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several of whom are now well-known public figures.
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you know, gets to the roots of two-tier policing,
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Maybe the police in this country will start to take threats,
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public and political figures, equally regardless of their opinions
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If they do another 300 in the next week, I'll have real confidence.
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This obviously happened mere days, actually, before Anne's murder.
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Because I just can't put up with being called guilty every day.
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Everything I've ever said and done, I'm guilty.
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You know, I've had no chance to really fight back at all,
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or whatever theory is doing the rounds at that time.
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Fact is that our anti-money laundering regulations
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something that I exposed when I fought the banks
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I think you've received a lot of very unfair criticism.
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where the leak point, I totally accept, by the way,
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And he said they'll break the law and do whatever.
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Number one is this five million pound gift. Personally, I don't give a shit about people who give money to other people. It's not something that particularly interests me. But what I think is of interest to the public is whether any strings attached is your pushing of crypto with the Bank of England connected with that gift.
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um that is one question and the other question is the posh george thing which is this is a friend
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of yours who gave money to both you and reform gave in kind things to both you and reform
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uh he was convicted of wire fraud in the u.s well louise hay is a convicted fraudster about to go
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in andy burnham's cabinet but does every bbc news report say convicted frauds in louise hay do they
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hell. It does not. Let's deal with it. It's a fair question. It's a fair question. We've
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always treated you fairly. No, no, no, no. But I'm just making the point. George, as a young
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man, got into trouble in America. If you are involved in tax avoidance schemes, it is very
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easy in America to get into very, very big trouble. So he has a conviction. Maybe that
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conviction will be pardoned one day. I don't know. That conviction is spent. There used to
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be a thing in Britain called the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, 1974. It meant that people
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actually, once they'd done their time, were forgiven and given a second chance in life.
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He was 20, 21. At the time this happened, he went to prison in America. He came back
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and everyone said to me, oh, you must never see him again. You must never speak to him again.
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Well, I don't do that. I don't dump people. I do actually believe in Christian forgiveness.
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I think it's part of what we are as a community, as a society. There are many, many people
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who fell off the rails as young men or women who have gone on to achieve great things in life
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for themselves and their communities. So that's the first point I want to make.
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I've stood loyally with George because I think he deserves a second chance.
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he is of course an enormously colorful character you know and and i mean great press all the with
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the girlfriends he's had and the things he's done and and all of it you know he's a very colorful
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character and you know hesketh's his uncle of formula one and mum dated the man that's now
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the king and so of course there are great reasons why he's a person of interest um but
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But the idea that in 2023 and 2024, when I was out of politics, that I perched in an office in one of his London homes and that he helped me with a camera crew so that I could go out into the English Channel, remember, and film the boats and advertise what was going on and try and give a warning to the nation.
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At that period of my life, from 2021 to the 3rd of June, 2024, I was a broadcaster.
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I was someone that appeared on celebrity TV programs, right?
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I was somebody that promoted some financial market products, but I was an influencer.
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You know, I had a considerable, even then, over 5 million social media following, and I was doing it.
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So the fact that George, you know, did me a favour with those things
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It is totally undeclarable in every single way.
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And what they've written and said about since I came back on the 3rd of June,
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I've taken nothing from them since the 3rd of June.
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And he hasn't given Manal to the party or any of these things.
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And the idea that his donation, or his mother's donation, this was reported to the NCA in September
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2024. The police followed up in the spring of 2025. Why is it now a story? It's now a story
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because everything is being coordinated together to try and knock us out of the game. And that's
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why I'm fighting this by-election. I'm fighting this by-election because I'm saying, let the
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people decide now on the other issues that you can we just pause on the post george thing very
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quickly so just to be clear because this is different to my understanding but i'm happy to
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be corrected he hasn't given any money to you since you came back into politics or any in kind
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things and not nor to the party so this is all related to the period when you won in politics
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absolutely okay the only other question i had on that i've i was reading a biography of yours
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And actually, the one thing that comes out of it
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from the telling of the biographer in that case
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was that you actually, you can be pretty ruthless
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when people, you know, stray off of the reservation,
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And that's why the people around me, you know many of them, been around me for a very, very long time.
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you could save. That's policygenius.com slash trig. Okay, now let's come back to the gift
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and the strings attached and the crypto stuff and the lobbying. Well, let's deal with it
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separately. Number one, Christopher Harbourn is an immensely successful man. We all say crypto,
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but actually that is but a part of what this guy does. There are some things that are known in
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public, such as his big stake that he holds in Kinetic, the defense technology company.
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I think he probably owns the biggest jet refueling operation in the world, plus his crypto
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So they're some of the things that he does, but he does much, much more than that.
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Went to school about three miles down the road from me.
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You know, he was a city trader, as I was in the early years.
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The difference is, he's sane, so he stayed in business.
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And I'm loopy, so I gave it all up to do politics and become a member of the European
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Christopher was politically radicalized by the Maastricht Treaty.
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I know that to your generation, this is ancient history.
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But to some of us, this was the moment when the free trade club we joined went from being
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an European economic community to a European community, to a European union with a flag
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and an anthem, and for many of us, that was it.
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So we both became politically radicalized at exactly that same period in time.
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He's obviously someone I know as a friend and know very, very well.
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He'd given Boris a gift, by the way, a couple of years before.
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that has caused the controversy as much as anything else.
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that will need, do need now, a degree of protection.
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that money is there to look after me until I die.
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So there is a, and frankly, and when it comes death,
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I've got outside income. I'm reasonably well off. I don't need to unnecessarily take money
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off the state. What is my crime? What is my sin? Well, my sin is that the rules of procedure
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or parliamentary standards, which, by the way, state explicitly that these rules that cover
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your conduct in public life, not in your private life, say that any political donations
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that you've received in the preceding year have to be declared. Okay. So I get elected
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on July 4th and I've got to go in and meet the people you deal with outside income, et cetera.
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I mean, within 10 minutes, I'm Terry Mehera. So you're telling me I have to record all my gross
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income, including VAT, but without the cost of running the company. Yeah. I mean,
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the commons is not designed for anybody in business. If I say to anybody, if you've got
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know, if you've got a business, forget it. I mean, the whole thing's impossible. So you're declaring
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all your gross income, not your net income, etc. But of course, this issue came up. So what did I
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do? I went to a top international lawyer and said, look, you tell me what to do. You tell me what to
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do. Is this something I should declare or not? And his advice to me was, no, this gift is
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unconditional. It's not political. It's not related to political campaigning. It's not related to
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building political offices. It's not related to employing staff or political campaigning
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or any of these things. You do not need to declare it, which is why I didn't declare it.
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Okay. Then what happens? And frankly, I didn't think I'd ever hear any more about it until the
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NCA leak it to The Guardian. They publish it. There's a huge furore. So the question is,
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Is what is this guy buying by giving it to you?
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if you're going to make big statements like this,
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which actually showed what the command structure would be
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But, you know, I could have just done what you wanted.
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nothing will die anymore, will it, in terms of stories?
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Kind of, you know, ex-politicians, ex-footballers,
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you know, those of us that have been seen to be controversial
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I was paying for all my insecurity during that.
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And yes, I've been an advocate for crypto since 2019.
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So you take out a fraction of a Bitcoin onto your card.
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This stuff now actually is having usage around the world.
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the worse and worse they behave the more debanking whether it's for political reasons or it's for
00:31:34.560
anti-money laundering reasons uh goes on the more attractive bitcoin becomes as a means of exchange
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and you know you and i want to do a transaction we can do it together in bitcoin you know we're
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both big boys we're grown ups so i've long believed in it and what upsets me is you know i come from
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a long line of people who worked in the city of London, worked in financial markets. The reason
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that London always did well wasn't because people wore bowler hats and it looked traditional and
00:32:02.140
wonderful, lovely though all that was. It was a place of innovation. London was always the first
00:32:09.860
with new financial products, with new financial markets. That's why we were world leaders at so
00:32:15.500
many things. And this whole space, this whole space of crypto, of stable coins, the means where
00:32:25.140
money passes in and out of traditional currencies and through into crypto and back, which is by the
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way fast, don't have the huge charges you have for many other forms of financial transaction and
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No wonder it's booming, you know, backed by blockchain the way that it is.
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It's always seemed to me this was the perfect space for London to become a global centre
00:32:50.900
because there is demand for this stuff all over the world.
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And as it stands today, we do not have an exchange-traded, regulated crypto product of any kind at all.
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people think oh nigel's arguing for the wild west no i'm arguing for a regulated
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crypto market it's the wild west now now you can buy bitcoin or ethereum you know online
00:33:22.560
from a provider that goes out of business you've got no protection of any kind at all
00:33:26.860
they're not regulated uh i mean all sorts of terrible scams have happened in this space what
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i'm arguing for is a regulated market what i'm arguing for is is that this is here to stay it's
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a big thing of the future we should be in the vanguard we should be in the lead and despite
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the fact we haven't got these things already seven million seven million british people
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have digital assets of some kind and when i swear to see the government of the bank of england
00:33:56.380
And, well, we disagreed on virtually everything.
00:34:12.100
should be able to hold more than $20,000 worth of stable coins,
00:34:16.280
to which I said, well, that means most of my friends
00:34:27.600
But I'm lobbying on behalf of a cryptocurrency guy.
00:34:35.000
doesn't affect the price of Ethereum or Bitcoin.
00:34:42.560
It just means that more of the transactions in it
00:34:51.920
And those that argue that somehow I'm trying to manipulate the process on behalf of my friend, frankly, don't understand how it works.
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sponsoring the show i mean the reality is though that this by-election hasn't it hasn't gone to
00:36:45.240
plan has it because of the fact that the other major political parties are not submitting
00:36:50.940
candidates it's not a good look is it not for them no it's extraordinary uh do you know the
00:36:57.140
conservative party in this seat in 2019 just seven years ago got 31 000 votes 31 000 votes
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I think it's their second safest seat in the whole of Britain.
00:37:26.080
I mean, this woman is sweeping the floor with everybody else.
00:37:34.660
Well, if that was true, they'd fancy their chances here, wouldn't they?
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They could raise the questions that you've raised with me in our discussion today.
00:37:48.280
They could prove me wrong, or think they could prove me wrong.
00:38:29.360
um so yeah i'm disappointed i'm disappointed uh it would be more exciting as a contest if
00:38:37.180
there were jeopardy but it's still a real election how is it that josh simons volunteering to stand
00:38:47.500
aside in makerfield is a legitimate by-election and me saying to the people with this constituency
00:38:54.220
do you think I'm a crook or not, isn't, is extraordinary.
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I just think they're showing contempt for the electorate.
00:39:12.020
but it is what it is, and I will campaign in this by-election
00:39:14.720
to get as big an endorsement as I possibly can.
00:39:18.120
Because the worry is it's, well, the two candidates
00:39:32.720
the comedy characters then reference at the same time.
00:39:37.720
But I think it reflects more on them than it does on me.
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You know, Count Benfist has a real chance of winning.
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it's like 90 odd percent that you know it's not a serious it's becoming not a serious thing
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what if anybody on 10 percent the bim face wants to place some money i'm quite happy to lay all of
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it probably illegal but i'm saying that in private um yeah it is ridiculous and i you know i'd also
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say i mean yeah it does show a level of content so what they're trying to do by doing this they're
00:40:16.340
trying to make the number of votes I get be as low as possible.
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I can see their cynicism and why they've done it.
00:41:15.440
When the Greens didn't run, I was like, boys, girls,
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But I was like, guys, this would be the moment.
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it's a small minority, passionate though they may be.
00:42:40.860
I mean, and the attempts to push Temi and all the rest of it.
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I think the fundamental problems that the country faces
00:42:51.080
are not ones that he's going to be able to turn around.
00:42:55.320
And I think his early speeches and statements are just, well, vacuous.
00:43:02.240
As if devolution of itself is going to improve things.
00:43:07.420
um and i think the center of gravity of the parliamentary labor party has now gone so far
00:43:13.980
left of what we thought we were getting back in july 24 and i think there was a major financial
00:43:21.520
fiscal crisis coming i've said it since 2024 i've predicted since 2024 that the election would not go
00:43:29.280
all the way to 29 and just look at the numbers you know the five-year projecting borrowing
00:43:36.480
figures for this government are, two years in, out by 80%.
00:43:48.480
I mean, they're going to have to find $120 billion quite quickly.
00:43:52.020
And it would seem they're not willing to cut benefits in any way at all, which means higher
00:44:01.000
And we've reached the point on taxes where higher taxes mean lower revenues, not higher
00:44:13.320
And so I'm fearful, you know, and it isn't just,
0.73
00:44:15.600
it isn't just the non-doms and the wealthy leaving Britain.
0.95
00:44:23.920
My real worry is the number of young people leaving.
00:44:27.540
Talented, you know, I'm talking sort of late 20s to late 30s,
00:44:32.000
people who perhaps have found their way in life or in their industry.
00:44:35.740
and think, you know what, I want to go on my own,
00:44:41.180
Well, I'll tell you what, Australia is much more attractive.
00:44:45.480
There are many parts of the world that are far more attractive
00:44:49.960
So I see this exodus of talent, which really depresses me.
00:44:53.360
I can't see Burnham reversing any of that either.
00:44:55.640
So I think we're headed for a major, major financial crunch.
00:45:03.100
you know you have good times and bad times in politics we've had a remarkable run we have had
00:45:09.000
a remarkable run for a couple of years um but there is a baseline of support out there that
00:45:14.520
is still incredibly firm for us that is not going away uh and i think as a party you know over the
00:45:22.200
course of this year we built out with spokeswomen and spokesmen in different areas new leaders in
00:45:28.980
Scotland and Wales. I've been doing everything I can to stop it being a one-man band as CEO
00:45:36.060
of an organisation with a big budget. Most of my life for the last 18 months has been spent in the
00:45:41.720
office in London, not in Parliament, not out campaigning, but acting as CEO to make sure
00:45:47.320
we're building departments that really work. And I can see that that's actually come into fruition
00:46:09.040
to prescribe the right medicine for the country
00:46:33.440
Our job, our job is to fully roll out a program
00:46:45.900
that gives them the hope and belief that it can be done.
00:46:48.480
that we get that right, we'll win the next election.
00:46:53.600
If you own gold, you probably bought it for the same reason I did. Because you looked at what
00:46:58.260
central banks are doing to currencies and decided you wanted something they can't print. Good
00:47:03.440
reasoning. But here's the thing nobody talks about after you make that decision. Your gold is just
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sitting there. It's not doing anything. You're paying to store it. You're paying to insure it.
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And in the meantime, it earns precisely nothing. Until now. What you're about to hear
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trigonometry. The concern must be, though, Nigel, is that Andy Burnham is going to come in and he's
00:48:19.580
a better politician than Starmer. He's more charismatic. He sounds better. He wears T-shirts.
00:48:25.000
He wears T-shirts. He likes the Stone Roses. Who doesn't like the Stone Roses?
00:48:29.560
But the problem must be, the worry must be, is that he has no mandate to rule. So he comes in
00:48:35.580
and in many ways is in his best interest to trigger a general election immediately because
00:48:40.920
the more he speaks, the more he's going to piss off certain elements of his party and the country
00:48:45.220
in general. I mean, he's already come out and said, you know, the way that the Labour Party
00:48:49.920
handled the Gaza situation was bad. Oh, yes, that's right. He's already
00:48:54.780
kowtowing to the Palestinian activists. So that being the case, isn't it in his interest to trigger
00:49:01.660
a general election ASAP? Yes, you would have thought so. Do you want him to? Interesting,
00:49:07.920
isn't it interesting isn't it just before i come back to that here we are in essex because the
00:49:13.480
ruling conservatives tried to stop the county council elections going ahead for two years in
00:49:19.500
a row they were only fought this year because of the court action that we at reform took she now
00:49:24.780
doesn't want a general election and won't put up a candidate in the clacton by-election it's sort
00:49:30.540
of almost like democracy only applies when it suits us i agree with you i think burnham's best
00:49:37.100
chance would be in the relatively early months. But you know what? If you're a career politician,
00:49:45.380
and he really is a career politician, this has been the whole of his life. He doesn't have,
00:49:50.480
you know, other business interests or other careers he could pursue, not from what I can
00:49:54.960
see anyway. You wait your whole life to become prime minister. You gamble it all and risk being
00:50:03.800
a PM for less, fewer days than Liz Truss. I just think that's where the human nature
00:50:08.660
bit gets in. You know, rationally, you're right. It sort of almost won't get better
00:50:15.000
than it is. But I don't think you'll do it. I don't think you'll do it. A little like
00:50:23.560
Gordon Brown didn't do it in 2008 and regretted that he didn't. I just cannot see him doing
00:50:32.880
Nigel, do you worry about, I mean, we've talked...
00:50:37.340
I mean, do I look like somebody who's worrying all the time?
00:50:40.360
Well, I wasn't going to ask you about you, actually,
00:50:42.560
but the state of the country in the sense of what you're talking about,
00:50:45.520
because you talk about the coming financial, the fiscal crisis,
00:50:48.320
which we've had plenty of guests on the show to talk about why that's coming.
00:51:12.820
And I think it's a testament to the state of the country.
00:51:15.260
Is that something that, you know, you think about?
00:51:21.000
I'm also acutely worried about societal breakdown.
00:51:27.400
see you chaps today. I've just been to a local business. About at half 11 last Friday,
0.99
00:51:36.180
five people broke in, started stealing stuff. They were disturbed. They went away. Cops came,
00:51:42.860
cops left. The five came back to take more stuff. The cops then didn't return, too busy.
00:51:50.440
But these five people were outed on a local Facebook group.
00:51:59.960
They then returned the cash that had been stolen.
00:52:12.020
I was with somebody else this morning who said he was in Bristol at the weekend.
00:52:17.440
I saw a bloke in a supermarket with a rucksack,
00:52:46.600
Nigel, I want to get a few questions in from our supporters.
00:52:49.200
So before we head over to that, the last question, as you know, is always the same.
00:52:52.800
What's the one thing we're not talking about that we should be?
00:52:55.560
Before Nigel answers the final question at the end of the interview,
00:53:00.580
The link is in the description where you'll be able to see this.
00:53:04.820
Would you make amends with Rupert Lowe and work together with the Restore Party?
00:53:09.180
What is Reform's plan to bring back all the talent and capital
00:53:12.620
that have fled the country over the past decade?
00:53:14.760
Please paint us the picture of what it would be like when you're the PM locally, nationally and internationally.
00:53:21.160
The one thing we're not talking about enough, and I was inspired a bit on this by Francis
00:53:27.200
and the work you did about being a teacher in a London, out of London borough.
00:53:33.120
The one thing we're not talking about enough is the huge numbers of young kids
00:53:55.420
because of all the different languages that are spoken
1.00
00:53:58.300
and because of the sort of breakdown of civility
0.96
00:54:08.160
tries to make it harder for anyone to be privately educated
00:54:12.920
The 7% that go to private schools are now dominating Britain
00:54:16.680
in a way they haven't done for a very, very long time.
00:54:20.300
And so social mobility is going backwards and not forwards.
00:54:24.660
And there was a tragedy going on in education in Britain's cities
00:54:29.240
where people are not fulfilling their potential.
00:54:31.060
And that, for them, and for us as a country, is a disaster.
00:54:35.680
There you go, Nigel Farage, endorses uneducated by Francis Foster.
00:54:40.000
Available in all good bookshops, but sales might go down as well as up after this, if such a thing is possible.
00:54:47.280
Nigel, thanks for coming back on. It's always great to have you.
00:54:49.920
Head on over to triggerpod.co.uk where Nigel's going to answer a few of your questions.
00:54:56.360
Can you articulate examples of the laws and policies that you want to enact that would both demonstrate that you have compassion for non-native Brits
00:55:03.120
and that your intentions are fair and reasonable.