True Patriot Love - March 20, 2026


AI in the Courtroom： Justice, Bias, & The Future of Law


Episode Stats

Length

16 minutes

Words per Minute

183.25465

Word Count

3,054

Sentence Count

90

Hate Speech Sentences

1


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 all right jim lang uh an ever-growing uh topic of interest to society in general certainly here in
00:00:10.680 canada in the u.s we're seeing more and more of this uh taking hold in our court system and you
00:00:15.640 know it's interesting because beforehand you and i had a quick chat about this and almost out of
00:00:20.500 the gate we had not a difference of opinion on it but i i think that there's a couple of
00:00:24.780 perspectives on this one uh but let me just give you sort of a rundown if i may of where we're
00:00:29.680 using this uh ai technology to some degree in the courts already okay uh legal research and case
00:00:37.220 prep so you know the ability to search thousands of cases find legal precedents and lawyers uh can
00:00:45.360 miss this sort of stuff because if you know historically you're just referencing other cases
00:00:49.860 from documentation about other cases you might lose the precedent along the way draft briefs
00:00:56.980 and legal arguments, and to summarize long court decisions that might make a difference in the case
00:01:01.640 you're working on. So this means that junior lawyers used to spend weeks doing this work.
00:01:06.960 Absolutely.
00:01:07.580 And now AI can just do it in minutes. What is that doing for the learning process? Just quick,
00:01:12.100 quick. The next thing they're doing is evidence review and discovery in major lawsuits,
00:01:17.020 millions and millions of documents, as we saw with Epstein. And of course,
00:01:21.260 you know it's it's possible that most large cases have this well same issue real quick think about
00:01:28.640 a corporate case involving potential fraud or money in that it would be reams of documents
00:01:35.280 they'd have to go through and to actually create a web out of those documents is a is a difficult
00:01:39.920 task uh and once again in the epstein case we're seeing people do that uh right now create a web
00:01:45.240 from the evidence currently presented exactly uh ai tools can quickly flag suspicious messages
00:01:54.120 group similar evidence and prioritize documents for lawyers which so it's pretty much at that
00:01:58.920 point an administrative assistant now the reason i like it is for people don't realize that in
00:02:05.240 canada under new supreme court laws that were went down about a decade ago you you don't have
00:02:11.720 infinite time between the time you're charged and you go to trial right it's 18 months from the time
00:02:17.320 you're charged until you're in court for provincial 30 months for federal for a major crime so there
00:02:23.880 is a time limit and people don't realize it because everyone's used to watching tv shows
00:02:28.920 and the show usually watch it you know wraps up in an hour but they have no concept of the months
00:02:33.880 as you say of reviewing documents reviewing evidence preparing it's so time consuming
00:02:39.480 going back to a case from 1987 that may have precedent for your client so you have to go
00:02:44.920 through that and if ai can expedite it and reduce that time from months to weeks or days
00:02:50.520 and give cases to the courts in canada quicker they because right now we have a real backlog
00:02:55.560 of problems in in the courts of cases that you just can't get through this could be a good thing
00:03:00.760 well it makes you you do have a good point jim because it makes you wonder okay so now i'm in
00:03:05.640 court i'm a lawyer i'm representing you and i bring to the you know a document or a point of
00:03:11.040 evidence that is already refutable and easily refutable but i didn't have the research to show
00:03:17.560 me right on hand now it puts a stall in the case might even take us out of the courtroom for the
00:03:23.160 day might create a reset and a you know an adjournment if you're allowed could even cause
00:03:28.220 a mistrial right so with hopefully the mission here is that that becomes streamlined and less
00:03:35.800 of that happens i just think people don't maybe don't have an appreciation for the mountain of
00:03:42.020 information and paperwork involved with some kind of trial yeah um you know frank stronak a very
00:03:50.220 well-known billionaire business person in canada is on trial for alleged sexual assault and some
00:03:56.420 of these cases are dating back 40, over 45 years. Well, you can imagine the paperwork and information
00:04:03.600 and evidence that go through all that. It takes weeks and months per accusation. And the legal
00:04:10.600 offense, you have the constitutional right for a defense attorney. They have to go through it and
00:04:14.840 be able to present a case to defend their client. That's it. So, I mean, hopefully that becomes
00:04:20.060 truncated to some degree, right? Right. And we get a better focus on what the actual trial is meant
00:04:25.100 to do and what the charges are meant to execute and maybe and hopefully also a better defense.
00:04:30.840 Now, we're looking at this from a prosecution standpoint, but really, even from a defense
00:04:35.180 standpoint in that scenario, it gives you a better breadth of evidence to draw on precedence
00:04:42.460 in a shorter time, as you point out. Risk assessment in bail and sentencing. So some
00:04:48.700 jurisdictions are already using AI tools to help judges determine the likelihood of a reoffender,
00:04:53.440 flight risk or a danger to the public well mike the biggest one of the biggest concerns in this
00:05:01.420 country right now aside from the economy and affordability is crime and safety and the catch
00:05:08.260 and release i know it's been talked about a lot but every time you see a case in the news about
00:05:15.120 a pretty serious crime and you hear that and read that they had been previously arrested charged and
00:05:21.240 released it makes no matter what canadian you are it makes their blood boil well then you'll
00:05:26.120 probably like this one of the most controversial systems is compass uh and it analyzes criminal
00:05:31.260 history uh demographics prior arrests and community factors in other words uh you know
00:05:38.100 what's in their proximity and critics are arguing uh that it may reinforce existing bias in policing
00:05:44.480 data so okay i can understand that if there's been a if there has been a bias in policing up
00:05:51.560 to that point and that's the data that they're using okay but let's make the assumption that
00:05:57.360 the police data is accurate and based on on what's happened and i got to me once we get to this point
00:06:03.520 we're beyond policing we're into the courts now so this is the judge not the policing this is the
00:06:09.980 judge hearing a case about an accused and determining whether or not they get bail whether
00:06:15.500 they get released and whatever demographic background they're from whatever their background
00:06:21.680 whatever their social economic situation but now this is beyond the police angle of it now they're
00:06:27.620 into the court's angle and the judge has in this country have the right to say you know yes you
00:06:32.900 will get bail here's your conditions whatnot or no you're going to be held in custody to your trial
00:06:38.000 Well, once again, where we're having so much stalling in the court system and too many people are getting out on bail, anything I think that can be put into place that sheds a more accurate light on the individual that we're putting out there, yeah, we kind of need to take advantage of.
00:06:53.580 And if a judge maybe prevents them from making an incorrect decision and go, you know what, in this case, this person deserves bail and deserves to be on their own until their trial.
00:07:04.740 Now, I will say this. The other day, I used ChatGPT to tell me who Jim Lang was, and they painted you as a professional fisherman. So there is that, and we'll get to it later on. But in this process, you hope that the AI is only accessing accurate and presenting accurate information.
00:07:25.220 This last one or second last one kind of this one was obvious to me transcription, you know, a instant transcription for judges, lawyers, court appeals.
00:07:35.960 Here's something in the future that I think will make a difference as well.
00:07:38.940 I've seen AI technology that real time will translate languages.
00:07:45.440 So a concern in North America now.
00:07:48.000 It is a major hold up in the court system to make sure that somebody is represented properly in the language that they speak.
00:07:53.960 that can be a matter of availability based. Now there's infinite availability in the calendar
00:08:00.460 for somebody to translate because that technology is there. Now, the other thing that I think is
00:08:05.740 interesting about the potential benefit of AI is the, it, it'll assume the probability of winning
00:08:13.060 a case. So you're the prosecution. You do not have unlimited resources. You only have so much
00:08:18.860 legal assistant legal help with you and you'll is it worth pursuing this trial and spending the
00:08:26.540 money and time or do we cut a deal and use their probability realize hey i got about 85 percent
00:08:32.640 chance of conviction with this case i'm going to focus my energy in that interesting yeah that
00:08:38.340 does raise a a real good point because if it's if they're accused and arrested but you're like i got
00:08:44.420 a 25-30% chance of a
00:08:46.520 conviction. Let's go to their lawyer,
00:08:48.600 cut some sort of deal, and
00:08:50.480 then maybe they do some limited time
00:08:52.540 and have house arrest and probation, but
00:08:54.560 then this saves the court time and money.
00:08:56.580 That's a really good point. That seems
00:08:58.440 to be a real win for AI. And
00:09:00.420 the Canadian court system. Well, you know,
00:09:02.100 also, don't forget, they're going to develop AI systems
00:09:04.460 that are specifically dedicated to the court
00:09:06.380 systems. And you
00:09:07.020 have to give credit to the people who create
00:09:10.400 this kind of technology that
00:09:12.260 it's going to be steadfast.
00:09:14.420 And the abilities in there, the tool sets that are in there are going to be verified.
00:09:20.020 The human mind, the human, you know, individual can only process so much information, only put so many hours and only do so much work, Mike.
00:09:30.240 And my concern is you see these crown attorneys, you know, when they speak outside of a superior court in Canada after a case and the hours they put in and that's just one case.
00:09:42.500 And then they're talking to the media reporters.
00:09:44.780 Well, then they go home, have a rest.
00:09:46.420 They're back in the office.
00:09:47.360 They got to worry about the next case.
00:09:49.020 Yeah.
00:09:49.240 You know, and then also the time factor to anyone who's used a lawyer, they charge by the hour.
00:09:55.420 The amount of time, maybe an amount of cost that could be saved for someone.
00:10:01.280 It could be the difference between whether or not you go to court or not.
00:10:04.780 Because some people say, hey, I can't afford to go to trial because I can't afford the lawyer.
00:10:08.460 In this case, maybe you can.
00:10:09.740 Not very often. I make a note as we're doing a show, Jim, but you just got me on a point.
00:10:14.760 This is going to make things very efficient. Yes. Okay. Is that going to save tax dollars? And
00:10:19.820 are those cost savings from the law firms going to be passed along and represent lower fees from
00:10:26.520 our lawyers? I just think about lower working class, lower income people who are getting
00:10:33.000 screwed over by the legal system because they think I don't have the resources to fight this.
00:10:38.100 yeah and now maybe they will and now maybe they'll get their time in court and get their due
00:10:42.740 wow you raise a good point maybe ai replaces lawyers well maybe maybe there's going to be such
00:10:50.740 advancement in ai that you'll be able to represent yourself into the system the system will present
00:10:56.980 a case for you go with me on this okay all right analyze the risk in taking this case on by yourself
00:11:03.540 show you the possibilities and all the dangers all the pratfalls and everything that you need
00:11:08.020 show you how the operating system of the courthouse is
00:11:12.660 and the court system and the legal system,
00:11:15.300 and then present a case that then you can automatically send
00:11:18.040 to the courtroom AI computer that will then assess with the AI judge
00:11:23.340 whether or not you're going to go to jail.
00:11:25.920 And then they send over the AI police or don't,
00:11:28.900 depending on how the case goes.
00:11:31.660 George Jetson arrived.
00:11:32.860 I would still like to have that information forwarded to a real lawyer
00:11:37.640 okay okay for now for now so the real lawyer yeah all of a sudden has a little time to review it
00:11:45.520 so you have the ai info with the real lawyer lawyer with the law degree working together
00:11:51.340 you ever notice more efficient and maybe helps your case have you had this uh situation with
00:11:56.280 ai where you're like i'm not sure if that's ai or not i don't use ai that much so i haven't had
00:12:01.360 you haven't had that experience where you're like gee i'm not okay no wait a second is this ai
00:12:05.040 When it comes to photos and images, that's where it's more like, I'm seeing videos on my social media and I'm like, I think that's AI.
00:12:12.980 You know, funny enough, I have the same experience with most lawyers.
00:12:16.520 Are you real?
00:12:18.080 Just a lawyer joke.
00:12:19.280 I'm only kidding.
00:12:20.500 But the key debate issues, of course, are can an algorithm really be fair, which is really what AI is.
00:12:26.760 It's a reasoning algorithm based on search of information already out there.
00:12:30.780 speak to the scientists behind it we're not there yet but we soon will be there now what you're
00:12:36.220 proposing about ai lawyers is not a 2026 thing but could be something that's a reality in the early
00:12:42.540 mid-2030s maybe based on how everything's progressing right now i say to chat gpt man
00:12:47.300 bald guys are the most handsome in the world aren't they and chat gpt gives me all these stats
00:12:51.700 about how bald guys rule the world and you know what i have a feeling that that's not the same
00:12:57.340 response that you'd get if you said guys with great hair in their late 50s rule the world you'd
00:13:03.720 probably get that response and I get no response it's just a blank but I do think that how if I
00:13:11.280 put out there that you know okay I bumped into this guy with my car or whatever but I put in
00:13:17.180 there my perception of it which is that guy bumped into me now is chat GPT going to have the ability
00:13:25.380 to or ai i say chat gpt ai is the ai tool going to have the ability to assess whether or not i'm
00:13:32.240 lying to it as the client now here's where i think it's really going to help how many times have you
00:13:37.520 gotten a debatable ticket speeding parking uh i didn't run everyone i've ever gotten everyone
00:13:43.960 so so many people say i'm going to court to fight that yeah how much more efficient would it be to
00:13:49.500 have you have the information from the officer on the scene what they said this is what i have i
00:13:54.900 have dash cam video and it goes to an ai funnel small claims court so you don't waste a day it's
00:14:01.320 being done through the ai system and goes oh mr wickson you know what as a matter of fact you
00:14:05.820 didn't do that you're free okay one other thing yes could ai i jotted this down because i didn't
00:14:13.340 want i didn't want to lose it okay who's accountable when ai is wrong in the court the real judge so
00:14:19.880 there'd be an overseeing judge that takes a look at judge dread judge dread yeah so judge dread
00:14:25.080 would go no wait a second ai is wrong here blah blah blah and so that would be the fail safe for
00:14:30.500 people worried about that well i don't want you to freak out because this is already being used
00:14:35.180 in all the ways that we've already described so if you're hoping that ai might avoid the courtroom
00:14:40.420 in every one of the scenarios that i just laid out for you what as ai has already been integrated
00:14:46.920 In North America?
00:14:48.080 In the world, bud.
00:14:49.180 Really?
00:14:49.880 Yeah, it's already happening in law firms, courtrooms,
00:14:52.560 even in the legal proceeding process,
00:14:56.380 in the court systems, in many places,
00:14:59.520 a lot of this is already being used,
00:15:02.060 not to the end that we will see it in the next year or two,
00:15:07.120 but it's already there and the seeds are growing.
00:15:09.480 So a year from now, we need to do a follow-up show to this
00:15:12.320 and see if they have AI-generated stats,
00:15:14.960 if it's how much it's sped up the prosecution as aware of the getting through the case matriculating
00:15:21.700 through all the cases in the courtroom i'll tell you what we'll do jim we'll put a prompt in the
00:15:26.800 computer that says do uh an ai version of the show with ai jim and ai mike in one year from now when
00:15:33.480 the matrix is in full effect canada no one needs an ai jim we we promise you that right now i wouldn't
00:15:39.760 take i listen i wouldn't say no to another gym in my life it's a good thing to have okay uh and
00:15:43.900 Thanks very much for joining us, by the way.
00:15:45.360 Subscribe and tell a friend, as I often will say at the end of my shows.
00:15:49.460 And keep the comments coming. We love them.
00:15:50.340 Wow. The comments are why we did this episode, by the way.
00:15:53.400 So thank you very much for that.
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00:15:59.340 We greatly appreciate it. We'll see you next time.
00:16:00.940 See you.
00:16:13.900 Patriotism is being in a country you love, surrounded by people you love, and great weather.
00:16:18.940 Being a patriot is being a part of your community and caring for it.
00:16:21.880 It doesn't matter who you are or where you're from, patriotism is the one thing we all share.
00:16:27.080 It's okay to be critical of government and still be a patriot.
00:16:31.380 It's gratitude to your country.
00:16:32.960 Of course I'm a patriot. I'm Canadian. It's my home.
00:16:35.840 Well, actually, true patriot love is the mission.