Are Millions Suddenly Canadians？ ft. Ravi Jain
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Summary
In this episode, we discuss birthright citizenship in Canada. Is it a good or bad thing? What is the difference between a Canadian born abroad and Canadian born in Canada, and a child born to a Canadian parent born abroad? What are the implications for Canadian citizens born after Dec. 15, 2025, and what does this mean for Canadian babies born after that date?
Transcript
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it there has been a major titan right i mean there's no question about it we've gotten rid
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of all the horrible public private partnership community colleges which i load and um you know
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you had immigration consultants in india and all around the world and some here kind of
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luring people to canada saying oh you're gonna have a guaranteed pathway to permanent residence
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meanwhile you have these poor kids from india primarily killing themselves because their
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parents have you know basically spent all their money
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joining me now ravi jane from jane immigration law uh somebody who can help us unravel what has
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recently occurred here in canada with regard to birthright citizenship ravi thanks so much for
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being here i appreciate it my pleasure nice to be here so you know i guess there's some basic
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questions there's a headline going around millions could suddenly become canadian um
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before we get into the details overall is that true about birthright citizenship
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they're not becoming canadians they are canadians the right has vested they actually are canadians
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it's just a matter of getting documentation to establish it uh for whatever reason right uh
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whatever interest they have in gaining, but they actually are Canadian. This happened
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as a result of a court case. The government was forced to act. Of course, it all stemmed from the
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desire to limit Canadian citizenship. I think it actually stemmed from the evacuation of
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of Canadians in Lebanon, and the very expensive cost to the Canadian government.
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And so Stephen Harper came in and wanted to limit the ability to transfer Canadian citizenship
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down generation after generation after generation.
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So he said, for the second generation born abroad, we're going to limit it.
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canadian parent would have had to bid in canada at the time of the burn and that created differences
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it created some gender discrimination it was alleged in the court um and uh they prevailed
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and so what ended up happening is they struck it down now the government although it's a liberal
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government now i think they still liked some of what was in the legislation that the conservative
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government had brought in because they did want to limit it going forward so in other words they
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didn't just reverse to the status quo before stephen harper they actually they actually
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continued with something of a restriction but this restriction as it turned out was simply that
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for that parent of the second generation born abroad the parent didn't have to be born here
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but they had to have a certain number of days in Canada right a few years some substantial
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connection so in other words that way if your generation after generation after generation
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born abroad children who are born in the future will not be Canadian unless the parent had spent
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some time in canada with a substantial connection but we're talking about babies born after december
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15 2025 that this applies to and that's the key and that's what a lot of us were sort of scratching
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our heads wondering about it we understood that there was going to be the substantial connection
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requirement for the parent of the second generation born abroad but we didn't
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we didn't understand like when that would come into effect we assumed it would be for
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or it would apply to all of the people who are currently alive or who were currently alive when
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the legislation came into effect. And that turned out not to be the case. No, it's moving forward.
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Yeah. It's about babies born after December 15, 2025 that have to have that substantial connection.
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Okay. So let's try to understand what the actual changes are from
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uh uh to be still uh bill c3 easy for me to say uh so basically this is uh a tightening to some
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degree of a policy that was left much wider before uh but the perception i think to canadians
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is that we are uh opening up more floodgates we're at a time where there's a reduction in
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immigration uh many countries around the world are taking steps to reduce immigration and control it
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in a better more uh usable and and fiscally responsible way uh but at the same time we
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seem to be allowing citizenship to canadians that might never even live in this country
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yes in a word yes so you're absolutely you hit the nail on the head i mean
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it's it is a bit of a tightening um from what was the law when the liberals were in power
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previously for sure it's a tightening because we are limiting citizenship going on a going forward
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basis but for all those people born before december 15 2025 who were alive at that time
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as long as you can trace your ancestry to a Canadian and it's unbroken you can't skip a
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generation like it's got to be you know unbroken line continuous generations showing then then
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they're Canadian and the other thing that I kind of was interesting interested to learn was that
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because we had an official speak to us at our immigration lawyers group event and one
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question was, well, surely do I, I mean, do I have to get, do I have to apply for the, the, the, the
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oldest person who's alive kind of thing, like the great-grandfather or the grandparent, and then get
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it, and then do the parent, and then get it, and then do the kids, and the answer is no. No, great
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question. Yeah, they're all Canadian, so you can just apply simultaneously for all of them. So it
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is, you're absolutely right that in a time when, you know, yes, there are, there are, there are many
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that feel that the system was mismanaged the immigration system justin trudeau went on
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television said yep we made mistakes um you know i'll give an example the number of temporary
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residents that's people on visitor visas or records work permits or student visas
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the number of temporary residents in canada went from 300 000 10 years ago
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And I do this when I lecture and I go around and talk.
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That volume of immigration is actually, it's visible.
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You can see it in almost every town and city that that number would likely be in the millions.
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But it is a number, actually, Ravi, people don't like to say.
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You know, you see international students in the northern parts of Ontario, for instance.
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like and so this is the complaint right is that a lot of people who are born here you know uh they
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they've got teenage kids they can they say they can't get jobs right uh and they they point their
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fingers at the immigrants right and they um you know there's well anything traffic you know health
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care wait time whatever everything is getting housing prices everything is sort of getting
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pointed that way now of course that there's been some severe restrictions on immigration
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you know all of a sudden it's like oh we have a labor shortage you know and then you see the
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prime minister saying well here's a couple billion dollars let's train 15 year olds onwards to for
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the trades well what's that saying we have a labor shortage so you know you you cut down on the
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immigration and then all of a sudden it's like oh we really need immigration again we need labor
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um just while people are canadians are getting educated and learning how to do these trades etc
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so yeah i mean it's it's always in the news it's a political hotbed issue um but my point was that
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simply that you know it there has been a major titan right i mean there's no question about it
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we've gotten rid of all the horrible public private partnership community colleges which i
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load and um you know you had immigration consultants in india and all around the world
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and some here are kind of luring people to canada saying oh you're gonna have a guaranteed pathway
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to permanent residents meanwhile you have these poor kids from india primarily killing themselves
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because their parents have you know basically spent all their money borrowed money they've
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taken whatever property they have they've mortgaged it at rates that were outrageous and almost
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unmanageable uh it seems and i think that we'll see more investigation and more reporting on that
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i hope uh in the form of document you know documentaries or podcasts like this because
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you're right these kids cannot go home they took every dime that the family would have they were
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they were the great hope and so and i think the canadians are now becoming aware of that when you
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talk about yeah our kids can't get jobs at tim hortons because minimum wage is a full-time
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earning for an immigrant waiting to get status in a in a country where they they just took a useless
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college course so i think the canadians by and large not immigrants or new immigrants over the
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last 10 15 years recognize this it's it's a point where many canadians feel like yes these people
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were taken advantage of and now here they are um and then you hear birthright citizenship
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is expanding in this way uh and it is a little frightening and i do think many of us actually
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ravi you raise a good point right away i was like well how many years are we going back on this i
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I mean, we can't go back to the beginning of time, but hearing that this might be a reasonable way to entice, you know, a more solid or understandable or better applied version of immigration to citizens out there who have a connection to Canada, that might be advantageous.
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is it i basically think it's neutral honestly because you know the people i speak to
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they're either upset because of the political dynamic some are very very political they think
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it's everything's going down the drain civil rights are going down the drain it's a fascist
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you know country now and they're basically you know they're democrats are left-leaning or whatever
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they are and they just they just they've had it they wanted them and you know i obviously i'm
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listening to what they're saying and i'm sympathetic you know they think they see canada
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as a very different place so um so many of them will get it and by the way i got i got calls when
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obama was about to come in too right so you got people ironically wanting to come to canada maybe
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they wanted to go to the west and i don't know but they were they were thinking canada was their big
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answer to you know Obama in power right so it's kind of ironic but anyway so you get it you get
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it every election cycle and and now we're seeing it between election cycles but we're seeing it
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um with people becoming aware that they can become Canadian so there's political reasons
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sometimes it's different sometimes it's people in the trans community uh parents you know who've got
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a trans uh gendered child um you know adult adults are getting medications but there's restrictions
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on children of course there's concerns that parents or health care providers will be criminalized
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etc so so there's real palpable fear that i that i hear and i feel when i talk to these people
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and um they want to get it if they are eligible uh because they want to be able to flee on a moment's
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notice uh so you get those types you get some people in the jewish community um you know who
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are just wanting to have a second passport right because historically they just felt
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obviously this you know this sense of i need if i need to go somewhere i want to have an ability to
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go and say here's my documentation i don't want to have to rely on someone you know so there's a
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historical dynamic to that so so you get all kinds of different reasons but i mean you know
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there are a few people trans families who have like who've come but but not as many uh and and
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the vast majority of people i'm helping are going to have it and it's going to sit in the shelf like
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So in some ways, yes, we've tightened immigration,
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you know, for everyone else, and we, excuse me,
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we've blown it wide open in terms of citizenship,
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I mean, if anything, it's just money into the treasury,
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but I mean, it's just, you know, it's processing,
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and people are gonna have a passport they have to renew,
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I don't see I don't see a flood no I think that's the the real question here are we going to have a
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huge flood now don't forget this this you know becomes effective people born after 2025 I think
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you said yeah December 15 yeah and uh so having said that the effects of this probably if they
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were going to be felt at all are pretty far down the road no no sorry that's just for people like
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what what it was it's actually it that's the that's the limit right so they're going to have
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the parents will have to have a substantial connection to canada if you're born after
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december 15 2025 i understand okay but if you're born before that then you have then you have a
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right right so a right to do it is open for anyone who was alive before december 15 yeah
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okay well i don't know if my uh mother-in-law in mexico is hearing this but get packed mom
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We're bringing you to Canada. We'll have a new passport for you soon.
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So having said that, you know, as we look at immigration and this doesn't really have a huge leaning on the reduction of immigration.
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As an immigration lawyer, you've had some boom years, but they were unraveling a lot of things.
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I noticed unraveling the lies of agents in another country, unraveling what people thought
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they could do and what their route to citizenship was going to be here in Canada. Now, does
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that change your business a little bit? You think moving forward, the kind of immigration
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will be back to the kind of business that you were maybe doing eight years ago, seven
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years ago, as opposed to this flood of immigration that I'm sure was just constant paperwork
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explaining the truth to people well it's interesting you say that because you know there are people who
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go into this field to make money right and they are they see it as a business they might have
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pivoted from real estate to now i'm going to go and do a community college course and i'm going to
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you know become an immigration consultant and i'll skip law school that's too much work or it's too
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much money or whatever and and now i'm going to go into the business of providing immigration
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services to people. And I'm actually quite against that. I was just quoted in the Globe
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Mail yesterday saying that I really do think that anyone who's not a lawyer needs to work
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with a lawyer, with a lawyer's license being on the hook. And part of that is the way we're
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trained. Lawyers take an oath to protect the public. We have a very vigorous law society,
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every province has one, and they audit us. I started my own practice four years ago. I've
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been audited three times and they check to see our trust accounts are done properly they check to see
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i'm getting identification for everyone i have a consultation with the address the address of the
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employer like all this stuff i have to get and i add a bunch of other questions to my questionnaire
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before the meeting by the way to see if they've had previous refusals of visas um see if there's
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any criminality in the background and this is something we're trained to do we're trained to
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issue spotting that's what a lawyer is trained to do and a lawyer at the end of the day is you know
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is there to protect and and to serve and not to see it as a business so i i never see myself as
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a business person i never see the practice of law as a business uh in fact if you look at our
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submissions from either the canadian bar association immigration section which i
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used to be national chair of or the canadian immigration lawyers association which i helped
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found and uh was president of the first president of the of sila if you look at our submissions
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what we're what we as volunteers because we're not a lobbyist group and no other lawyer is paying me
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to advocate and when i say things like lawyers should be the ones practicing law i'm not getting
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paid by any lawyers to say this in fact lawyers are my competition why am i saying this and look
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at our submissions what do our submissions say our submissions if you look at them they're
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frequently designed to reduce our work and to reduce the lot of the reliance on immigration
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lawyers to make things simpler and so you might in a way we're not very good business people
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if we're constantly spending our own time volunteering to try to teach the government and
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you know our lessons and how we've learned to do things and um and we say to people all time you
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shouldn't need an immigration lawyer but you know at the same time when the government is gonna if
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you if you tick the wrong box and if you forget about you know the fact that you were you know
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you visited the united states and were denied a visa um to i don't know some other country
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if you if you don't mention that you have a previous refusal of a visa and you just forget
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they ban you for five years there's no like nuance oh well you were a kid and you know whatever let's
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just do six months for you and two no they're just processing paperwork yeah everyone five
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your ban so i mean this is how harsh the government is right you know i will say i will say this
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i thought it was a lawyer and they screwed up my case they say fire beware it's your problem
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yeah right right you filed it it's you well ravi it's interesting because uh in your industry
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specifically of course because we have these conversations on a regular basis it's important
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to Canadians. Because of this massive influx of immigration, podcasts in England, the US,
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many parts of Europe are having the same conversations. It's not unusual for us to
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have this conversation. By and large, the individuals that I've talked to that are
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immigration lawyers in Canada are amazing people. They say the same thing you're saying. I'm not
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here on the basis of business there's no shortage of business what i'm here to do is unravel for
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canadians and new canadians and potential canadians how this gets done and that has always stuck with
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me because i often do think do they talk to their accountants these lawyers because this is not
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great business advice you know to actually tighten the industry or the the process for new canadians
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is something i've noticed a lot of lawyers in this country care deeply about much different
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than the agents that brought immigrants to canada misinformed uh unarmed and and you know frankly in
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a world of fantasy well we're deeply affected right i mean when i see someone and you know
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i hear of someone that is known to me through another client or or i met and i learned that
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they've committed suicide i mean that obviously deeply affects you right and so at the time i
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remember i was a lone voice this was years ago when i was really like alone saying i mean i
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remember the minister is going on tv or having presses you know press releases whatever and
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they're just going on about how you know there are billions of dollars that international students
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are bringing to canada and we're competing don't forget they say against the uk australia united
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states like this is great for canada there's just no downside here look at the wonderful community
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colleges look at the buildings that we're building in the east coast and the west coast throughout
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the country look at these beautiful shining new buildings that international students are paying
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for you know the conservative governments around provincially could say hey you know we're keeping
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tuition down for you your your kids your canadian kids are are not they haven't had an increase in
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tuition for how long right and that's that was the sort of mentality everything's great everything's
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fine you know and then i was saying yeah but these kids are killing themselves number one the
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consultants are saying they got a guaranteed pathway to pr which they don't have number two
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these private public partnership colleges someone's saying that they're going to get a work permit at
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the end of their diploma and they don't they're not entitled to it so you know then they're
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protesting at the colleges and they're upset and you know so it's just it wasn't it wasn't all it
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was packed up to be and these you know i think one of the ministers sean frazier i think it was
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maybe it was Mark Miller, excuse me, said something about, you know, their puppy mill
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colleges and that they're, you know, you look at them, they're going to movie theaters,
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they're going there in strip malls, they're not proper Canadian education institutions.
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I honestly think it discredited Canadian education internationally, something we're going to have to
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work our way back from at a time when universities are going to now be strapped for cash to make an
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impression on the international community to bring students here at rates i promise you i paid for a
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student for one year in this in this country i don't think canadians understand the difference
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in price for a canadian student and an international student i don't know if you have figures on that
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but it could be six to ten times yeah that's how much that's how much it is it's insane so it's
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very very high and frankly you know i mean like i'm i try not to be political i'm a professional
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and you know i don't i don't subscribe to one political um leaning when i'm talking to people
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from professional perspective but i can tell you that the failing was um was was both parties
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right i mean the conservatives they're running the education like it's constitutionally it's
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an education education is a provincial head of power provincial thing that's right the
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ministers who were just letting this run wild particularly in ontario letting their private and
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you know the community colleges there were just it was just i see it i had frankly i thought it
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was free right because you filled all the bums and seats you can now we're going to create these
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partnerships and you know and basically have more and more international students coming in
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and they just seem to be no limit to how many and the profits the globe mail ran a couple good
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pieces showing how profitable these these private colleges were so i i think as a family provincially
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now finally the federal government they're printing the visas right so they have responsibility too
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they're basically saying hey we don't pick the designated learning institutions like that label
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like who's designated that's given to us by the provinces we don't control that i'm like yeah but
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you control the visas right you can see how many are coming in so then they said fine we're going
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to impose a cap which is the right thing to do but but both parties you know and both levels
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Everybody is not accomplice, but everybody is definitely aware of their benefit from this.
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That's a good point that we don't hear very often.
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Neither the province participated alongside this without any hesitation to do so.
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Back to birthright, just for one second, birthright citizenship.
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Just as a comparison, we've been talking about other countries in the world
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Historically, I think we've been similar to the UK, maybe similar to Australia.
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Are they making changes based on their immigration situation as well?
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I can't speak to that. I'm so focused on Canada, but obviously I can point to what's happening south.
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I mean, you have the Constitution of the United States saying that you have a right to citizenship if you're born.
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in the united states there's there's a little phrase after that um in the jurisdiction something
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there's some kind of phrase and you know don trump was saying and he actually sat in the
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supreme court i don't know if you remember this so it's the first time a president has come to
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the supreme court in many many years to sit for he sat there for an hour just to like basically
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put pressure on the justices um but it's it's i think legal scholars you know are pretty clear
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that it's you know if you're born in the united states you are american right but he's saying
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that if it's you know if you're if you're born to someone who wasn't there with any status then
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legally yeah then yeah then then then he doesn't want them to have it and you know but if you
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understand the impulse like there are people who who come to canada you know for brit tourism right
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there are people that help them do that as a business so i mean it you know canadians can get
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offended by that but tell maybe just for our listeners what is work tourism birth tourism
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birth tourism so virtue is when you come you're pregnant um someone's here arranging for a
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hospital for you uh hotels etc you come from russia you come from you know um asia you come
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from wherever and then you give birth to your child and then you kind of stay for a while and
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and then go back. And then the idea is that that child will be Canadian and, you know, can come
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and get domestic tuition fees for university and live if they want to. They don't have to worry
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about immigration. And that's arranged again by agents outside of Canada generally? Yeah,
00:26:29.360
there are people, I mean, I'm not saying they're immigration consultants, but there are people
00:26:33.820
have that as a business and um you know it's look i mean canadians do get upset about it but i think
00:26:42.380
again when i've seen the experts sort of uh who are familiar with the statistics really look into
00:26:48.300
it it is actually a very small numbers problem uh so i don't want to exaggerate it but yeah yeah
00:26:53.820
you know i'm just saying there's uh it does happen uh what do you think is the advantages if people
00:27:00.940
are watching right now thinking i'm going to get i'm going to take advantage of birthright citizenship
00:27:06.300
uh it's a good thing for what reason uh if you're a canadian to uh extend this what what do you
00:27:13.820
think some of the benefits are uh to people who are thinking about doing it you're talking about
00:27:19.260
birth tourism now yeah but sorry birth okay so if you just come here fly into oh the tremendous
00:27:24.940
advantages i mean you know they get all the security down the road they can just come and
00:27:28.860
get healthcare i mean there's a in ontario it's like a 90-day wait i believe but um like i say
00:27:34.060
domestic tuition fees uh you can just reside here you can then sponsor a spouse if you want to then
00:27:39.900
your spouse can come so there's lots of advantages to being canadian not to mention all the visas you
00:27:44.940
don't need for all the countries around the world we have one of the most respected passports in the
00:27:48.940
world so there's there are tremendous advantages uh if people wanted to find out more about this
00:27:55.660
ravi how could they reach out to you uh through your website or is there uh yeah i mean you
00:27:59.900
recommend i can help them with birth tourism i can help them with uh for sure in terms of the
00:28:05.980
you know the citizenship by descent right if they're if there are people around the world
00:28:10.780
who realize that they have you know someone in their lineage that's canadian and they want to
00:28:16.860
be a canadian for whatever reason as i said maybe maybe it's anti-semitism maybe they're in the
00:28:22.300
the trans community, maybe they're not happy with the state of politics in their country.
00:28:26.860
I'm happy to help. I can be reached, you know, at Jane Immigration Law. So
00:28:31.260
my direct email is Ravi, R-A-V-I, at J-A-I-N, immigrationlaw.com.
00:28:39.200
Okay. Well, birthright citizenship, not the panic necessarily that I thought it was,
00:28:43.860
or maybe you thought it was. There's certainly advantages to it. And there's certainly been
00:28:48.160
some changes to it. If you want to find out more, I recommend you reach out to Ravi and we'll make
00:28:52.480
sure that your info is also inside the description. Ravi Jain, thanks so much. I appreciate your time