True Patriot Love - Canada’s Hockey Is Going Behind a Paywall

00:00:00.000 from dave hodge and bob cole and don cherry saturday night hockey night in canada cbc

00:00:11.520 has been my soundtrack and basically my life since the 1970s but in 2026 all that has changed

00:00:19.760 as watching hockey night canada for free and cbc is now over thrilled to be joined by paul

00:00:25.600 micucci paul how are you good jim so is that is that are we still uh no but actually um they lost

00:00:34.160 the rights rogers lost the rights to the theme song to hockey night a few years ago oh shoot

00:00:38.960 there was a uh issue with a payment and so bell media slash tsn holds it so when they play games

00:00:46.020 they play the theme oh i didn't know that yeah okay all right yeah that's about 12 years ago

00:00:50.640 yeah yeah but i mean for since 1952 for 74 years yeah no matter what its iteration hockey night in

00:00:58.840 canada was an institution and i mean let's face it since the late 80s until especially just before

00:01:06.520 his departure don cherry's coach's corner in hockey night in canada was one of the highlights

00:01:12.560 of television not just sports television of the week for a lot of people and based on his comments

00:01:17.960 that made news headlines in canada oh yeah yeah well you know we we all tuned in to see what

00:01:22.920 jacket he was wearing right yeah what he had to say those are the great old days yeah let's be

00:01:28.260 let's be serious but so now that's all gone by the by yeah so from now on because rogers owns

00:01:34.460 everything lock stock and barrel they you have to go to sportsnet and pay if you want to watch

00:01:40.400 hockey and if you don't want to pay rogers and sportsnet then you'd have to go to amazon prime

00:01:44.420 video for their games or you have to go to tsn plus for their streaming to watch when they have

00:01:50.660 games right so now they bought out they had one partner left right and then the rogers bought out

00:01:57.860 uh mlsc they own everything they own everything now so the rights to everything everything

00:02:03.780 everything okay they don't they own they own it all oh that's incredible yeah but you know

00:02:08.900 Now, people wonder why, why would this go through?

00:02:13.860 Rodgers, you know, they signed an $11 billion deal, a 12-year deal beginning this season.

00:02:21.220 And for the NHL, for people, people don't realize the salary cap, how they pay players

00:02:26.180 is based on league revenue.

00:02:28.260 So Gary Bettman and Bill Daly would never say no to that kind of money because of the

00:02:34.180 amount of money from the tv deal and ticket sales and merchandise sales and overall league revenue

00:02:39.840 the salary cap this year is 104 million paul next year it's 113 million in 2028 it's 127 million

00:02:49.280 dollars that means the players are making more money the star players and teams have more room

00:02:54.880 to keep star players so it it's good for the overall health of the league from a financial

00:03:00.980 standpoint but for the average viewer for seniors for people maybe don't have the resources they

00:03:07.460 will be missing a lot of hockey a very quick favor before we continue a large percentage of you who

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00:03:19.860 that if you find value there if these discussions make you think if you want our uncensored debates

00:03:26.900 deeper dives and extended sit downs head over to tplmedia.ca and subscribe there directly it takes

00:03:34.100 just five seconds cost nothing keeps you informed so thank you now back to the show yeah well they'll

00:03:41.300 be missing a lot of hockey so jim back up a minute because it's interesting we did a show on i just

00:03:46.580 want the viewers and you know i'm probably uh you got to get me up to speed a little bit 11 billion

00:03:52.180 dollars correct right so there was a bidding on the tv rights yes and at the end of the day

00:03:58.980 the amazon it was rogers it was a bunch of people it was warner i think in the u.s so take me through

00:04:07.660 that so and go we have to go back to 2013 right when rogers bought the national nhl rights for

00:04:14.480 at that time 5.2 billion for 12 years and everyone thought wow that's a lot of money they overpaid

00:04:21.160 Right. And it seemed like it at first because there was a year, the first time ever, no Canadian teams made the NHL playoffs. Right. But things changed and we had great runs by the Sens and the Oilers and all these teams, all these Canadian teams. The Habs. The Habs had fantastic runs and then it started to pay off. So when the rights came up, Rogers, to their credit, decided they were going to push all their chips on the table and blow everyone financially out of the water.

00:04:49.900 so they went from 5.2 billion in 2013 to 11 billion right and they sold and at the same time

00:04:59.980 so 917 million a year for tv rights yeah so that and you know on top of you know and

00:05:07.100 their asset purchases and everything as far as mlsc so they've been doubling down on this right

00:05:13.420 in a huge way and there's not even in and and because so let's chat about that yeah because

00:05:18.620 there's a i'm going somewhere with this a little bit they did that because quite frankly one of

00:05:23.340 the only things you know is you're a tv network or you know you're producing broadcasting you're

00:05:29.660 trying to grab on to things that you can get viewership on that you can actually sell advertising

00:05:34.780 to correct right so they're you know they're i guess it's interesting their huge quest for these

00:05:42.540 huge dollars to pay for the broadcast so they were worried i guess their concern at that point when

00:05:47.340 that comes up for renewal is quite frankly an american company is going to hop in and grab

00:05:52.340 uh but see this was for the um national tv rights in canada right so there was a possibility but

00:06:01.300 to be honest with you they're betting against cbc which do not have the money to compete with them

00:06:06.740 right it's government money and bell media tsn and bell media would only go so far now bell media

00:06:12.740 slash tsn they have regional rights so tuesday night's game leaves the national predators was

00:06:18.980 a tsn regional game right um so it's not seen nationally but they rogers has the national rights

00:06:25.680 the the bulk of the playoffs the stanley cup final the big saturday night games the big games that's

00:06:31.380 all rogers and sports now right so they they doubled their they doubled up their bid primarily

00:06:37.120 to thwart off cbc and bell oh well they squeeze them out squeeze them out so squeeze them out so

00:06:43.740 they basically said listen i'm going to double it up 11 billion you're not going to come in i'm going

00:06:47.380 to go to 917 million dollars a year and that's the economics that you have that's the new sandbox

00:06:54.340 we're playing in and everyone gets a piece of it and for the teams you can't say no to that and

00:06:58.940 and it's in today's sports television it's not just the game itself paul it's the content it's

00:07:05.280 the social media it's the video clips the interview clips the exclusivity that comes with this now

00:07:11.100 yeah it's big for them that means elliot friedman and a 101 with gary bettman he gets it first

00:07:17.780 because of their their exclusivity and their rights right so now they can they can actually

00:07:23.380 go out and distribute a gotcha so they distribute the games like you said the primary games to the

00:07:29.380 the content and they get roughly you know let's talk a million people a game like this for a leaf

00:07:36.020 game well yeah see now let's see let's do a little bit rollback there sure yes the ratings are that

00:07:43.140 yeah but what is the content what are the likes what are the clicks what are the impressions

00:07:48.180 through the people watch the game on their phone people watch the game on their laptop people

00:07:53.220 a checkout clips that they provide so oh yeah that's there's shorts there's absolutely it's a

00:07:59.800 whole media world it is i get it so they're you know so that number is right is partly true but

00:08:05.700 not the entire number of people that consume the content because i in my opinion the ratings people

00:08:11.900 don't understand truly yet how people consume media when they say there were this many people

00:08:18.400 that watched a political debate this many people that watch the emmy awards this many people that

00:08:23.440 watch the leaf game they're going by the old school tv system but that's that's just part of

00:08:28.540 the picture now well when you mean and help me because you know when i met you when and mike i

00:08:34.980 had to kind of get educated on this which for me from a layman's perspective right uh it became it

00:08:40.920 was very interesting because i dug into it and i'm looking at i'm thinking how did they throw

00:08:44.840 these numbers on like how do they figure it out so you know first of all the ratings tv ratings

00:08:51.000 in canada so let's talk about that for a minute so numerus is the the group that actually nielsen's

00:08:56.360 in the us numerus in canada numerus began in 1944 they're a bureau of broadcast measurement

00:09:05.560 it's a non-profit voting group it's with advertisers agencies and uh broadcasting

00:09:13.720 groups it's a 12 person uh board uh has eight executives from broadcasting and media so

00:09:21.080 primarily made up of the rogers bell cbc chorus um you know and patterson stingray those guys right

00:09:29.400 that they make up the board um and they basically now this is where i had to get my head around it

00:09:35.800 they do and it's weird the way they say it comes from a panel so they what they do is a panel of

00:09:41.320 testing so they go out every year and i took the 2023 kind of uh test case for how they go out and

00:09:49.240 figure out how many people are actually viewing so they go out and they get 11 000 people and

00:09:54.760 and then this is in 2023 4560 households in canada in canada so they disperse these so they get 11

00:10:03.960 so you know we're saying three people roughly to a household a little under three two and a half

00:10:09.560 two and a half people to a household they put a uh they get them to carry this uh broadcasting audio

00:10:15.640 inaudible code device or a small meter yeah they call it people meter a people meter so they get

00:10:20.840 them to carry the people meter they uh put it in their house and they get them to go through their

00:10:27.080 daily life after they charge it at night and walk around and it picks up codes from the broadcasting

00:10:33.400 correct and it can say okay so if you're in a bar uh if you're all sitting in a bar quite frankly

00:10:39.960 and the game comes on over there it'll pick it up if if you know you're walking through a tv store

00:10:45.480 quite frankly that'll pick up a bunch of stuff so it's it's really just listening to everything

00:10:49.880 you're doing and and tracking what's coming into your content and easily hackable because i'll tell

00:10:55.320 you the dirty secret is people within different organizations who got a people meter who work

00:11:01.800 for media companies you hear urban legends like they tied it to a ceiling fan so it kept moving

00:11:08.520 on slow and then kept their station radio or tv station on all day to cook the books paul they

00:11:15.640 because there's such few numbers of people that have the ratings people's jobs and careers and

00:11:21.960 life depend on those numbers and if the numbers are weak you're out of a job you're out of a career

00:11:27.560 so they'll do anything to keep the numbers up and jack the numbers up so they look better

00:11:32.600 and they keep their money coming in well it's think about it you are it's interesting the way

00:11:38.200 the world that's so good the way you said it you know because your livelihood is dependent on their

00:11:45.640 ratings absolutely it is but your livelihood really is is a subsection a small subsection

00:11:52.520 of canada with 40 plus million people now yeah which so you're talking 11 000 people and on an

00:11:59.240 annual basis this is in 2023 so if it's changed i for forgive my numbers but i'm sure it hasn't

00:12:05.320 changed a lot so they get this data from those people they then go away and they balance the

00:12:11.640 data so i i couldn't really figure out when they say they balance it to census it's a dark art i'm

00:12:17.960 telling you it is every time every place i've worked at in radio or television when they get

00:12:23.400 the numbers they actually have someone on staff to interpret the numbers this is serious and explain

00:12:30.200 to management to producers to talent hey these are the numbers this is what it means hey we're

00:12:36.360 doing great in western canada in eastern canada we're really popular with women in the bc coast

00:12:42.760 and that's how they break it down that specific oh no and they do it for advertising and they do it

00:12:47.640 for the content and everything else no no and i think that's true you know i don't think it's

00:12:53.080 terrific but i think it's interesting but you know so they balance it to census so my guess is

00:12:58.760 they try to figure out that they have equal representation amongst male female and different

00:13:05.080 cultures oh yeah yeah and then and then once they get the data they project it to the country

00:13:10.920 so they extrapolate it across and in the small print there's always a margin of error right of

00:13:16.680 course because quite frankly they're to your point your your sample size is 11 000 over divided by

00:13:23.480 i guess 41 million people yeah you probably take out kids who aren't kids and seniors who aren't

00:13:30.120 functional so what is that 20 million no no it's a lot higher it's probably like 35 million so 35

00:13:35.160 million so 11 000 out of 35 million is extrapolated across and then they kind of come out and they say

00:13:41.000 to your point then they start giving data yeah right now you know and this is the uh interesting

00:13:46.920 part jim that i find is where i think it's probably more helpful to get into the digital

00:13:54.520 and and because at least digital you know you hit on it before the show at least digital advertising

00:13:59.320 online advertising that you're getting through facebook instagram you know youtube at least

00:14:04.360 you're getting some info you're correct you're getting quite frankly you know you can you can

00:14:10.200 break it down between male female you can break it down between age group you know how many people

00:14:15.400 viewed how long they stayed on your content so the nice part is as you're um as you're actually

00:14:22.040 putting the broadcasting into the tv world you're putting all the social alongside it and then

00:14:27.960 you're getting you're getting a feel for how many people are interacting with your content bingo the

00:14:34.120 content is everything now right in media so for it has to be because if i'm an advertiser

00:14:41.000 of course i'm saying listen i just signed a deal for i just signed a deal and i'm on the hook for

00:14:46.760 917 million dollars a year i'm distributing i'm paying that money to the nhl the nhl is paying

00:14:53.720 that money to the teams the team who pay the players who pay the players so there's a like

00:14:58.840 a whole flow down if i can't get any return on it now we did go through shows jim that the us

00:15:06.040 the us tv rights are significantly smaller yeah because it there's an insatiable passion for

00:15:12.120 hockey in this country right we have seven nhl teams and it's it's the fact that a canadian nhl

00:15:19.640 team has not won the stanley cup since the montreal canadians in 1993. so it goes back to

00:15:25.000 the wait for the red socks and the cubs for years and that they kept coming and coming waiting for

00:15:30.480 next year and that just feeds the beast that is nhl hockey in this country oh yeah no it feeds

00:15:37.060 the beast and quite you know i think you know i've told you before i think it feeds the beast and i

00:15:42.260 also also think quite frankly americans given their their appetite for hockey is smaller they

00:15:48.700 have more options you know football basketball play a bigger role in their lives ncaa sports

00:15:53.980 ncaa sports so quite frankly the money gets subdivided amongst a bigger pool

00:15:58.460 i also think from a telecommunications perspective there's lots more competition so you know a lot of

00:16:04.780 the well there's a lot more people there's also a lot more competition for your cell dollars for

00:16:10.460 your tv dollars for your online dollars so the rates they charge are a lot lower so the profitability

00:16:15.820 of those companies so they have to spend their money more sparingly so they're not like rogers

00:16:21.020 able to kind of stroke that 11 billion dollar check because to be honest with you um the big

00:16:25.900 companies they're spending their big money enormous money on nba rights nfl rights things of that

00:16:31.980 nature because the rights for those are are just through the roof and every time they think it's

00:16:37.580 going to go down the renewal contract is higher because of the content because not only had the

00:16:42.940 immediacy that if the knicks are in the nba finals we know that america is going to watch because it's

00:16:49.340 the knicks and the celebrities and everything go with it but they're also going to come the social

00:16:53.420 media the content ben stiller and spike lee courtside the clips and everything and a lot of

00:16:59.340 the young people even if they're not watching the game in real time they're checking out the

00:17:04.220 highlights and the clips and everything goes with it and all that content's all part and parcel with

00:17:08.700 it right content okay so i'm with you content that they only can measure you know i think what

00:17:14.940 we've broken down and i hope the viewers kind of figured it out with us is the content that

00:17:21.180 can only measure really through social or through online yeah so truly like the truly and you know

00:17:27.500 for whatever it's worth and then you know then you have some issues then quite frankly it's clouded

00:17:32.060 by bots and everything else that goes on so then you have all those issues quite frankly so you

00:17:36.780 don't know how much of those are real people hitting your content so on the tv side it's you

00:17:42.700 know it's challenging you know and in in the u.s in the u.s i think i i mentioned before you know

00:17:48.620 you have some uh uh interesting um uh nielsen ratings it's a little different yeah and i you

00:17:56.940 know i was it's but it's roughly the same in a way it's a black box that goes into people's homes

00:18:02.860 so it's not the it's not the people meter reader but it's a black box that kind of goes on their tv

00:18:08.220 and then it monitors what they watch and um and that actually i was interested to find which is

00:18:13.980 to me was really interesting when i looked into the nielsen guys i didn't realize that um brookfield

00:18:20.140 had a share in that oh we're carney's guys yeah well why not right yeah because it puts you in

00:18:26.300 the catbird seat right because now you're the now all the guys producing content really are you're

00:18:32.060 the master of their fate because you're the one deciding where the box goes and you're the one

00:18:37.020 doing nelson's ratings and you're trying to figure out kind of so it does it does put you in a in a

00:18:43.100 real good position to you know measure and uh assess and comment which does give you power in

00:18:51.500 that relationship right but for the the um media relations people the sales reps working say for

00:18:58.300 rogers with the content bots or no bots they will go to an advertiser we had this many likes this

00:19:04.380 many clicks this many impressions across all our social media and we had this many viewers i mean

00:19:09.820 they had close to seven million people when you get to the stanley cup funnel that's a big number

00:19:14.780 in canada oh yeah well there's a lot of phones right like you don't forget don't forget too

00:19:20.060 you know rogers from uh from uh which is good on them to tell you the truth with the position

00:19:25.100 they're in they can push and pull market so now on their phones they have the ability to push

00:19:30.460 things out to you and pull things back hey the stanley cups on well they have the whole series

00:19:34.940 of commercials where they have different hollywood celebrities showing how you can check out stuff on

00:19:39.420 your tablet your phone yeah and so they're like we know you're going to do it so do it with us

00:19:44.700 well yeah so you're capitalizing the push-pull market space which is good for them so as as

00:19:49.820 to be an advertiser you're seeing so what you're what you're doing is you're corning the advertising

00:19:55.900 uh world well but that's exactly so it's um because because no one else can get into it

00:20:01.180 because so you sell the cell phone you own the rights you have the content you have the

00:20:07.020 and so you have the teams and it's all feeding off each other you know the ecosystem that i

00:20:11.340 always draw on the board when we sit there yeah you created the ecosystem that covers off all

00:20:15.660 bases everything great everything so from a consumer perspective now though this is where

00:20:21.180 free so now now you say okay which we always knew was going to come this time was is coming so we

00:20:27.420 knew in 2013 but we just pretended it wasn't going to happen no but that might happen in 2013 remember

00:20:33.340 the stories well yeah because in 2013 when rogers first signed the deal they took over hockey night

00:20:39.660 in canada right so yes it was technically free but it was one not run by the cbc sports it was run by

00:20:46.460 rogers and sportsnet and that changed everything so up until 2013 it was hockey night in canada

00:20:54.140 and cbc producers and their vision and their talent how to project the games or produce the

00:20:59.660 games and that changed when rogers bought it so this is just a natural extension of that

00:21:04.620 because now rogers just they squeezed everyone out now it's all them right so now it's simply

00:21:09.580 so now it's simply i guess jim is supply demand so now it's easy well it's not easy it took a lot

00:21:15.500 lot of money quite frankly probably a lot of convincing getting you know government to

00:21:20.100 basically work with you to grow the market and figure out the market you know you don't have a

00:21:27.520 lot of competition in the market so quite frankly you had to kind of progress there and you had to

00:21:32.460 get that ecosystem to work so that ecosystem now has is launched and that ecosystem so now

00:21:38.920 it really from their perspective it's just a supply demand so in other words I have all the

00:21:44.720 supply and then i can lift the price so it's it's it's a very interesting curve because all you have

00:21:51.540 to do is see the two intersecting points and figure out where people start to drop off so

00:21:56.740 where it's too expensive that i don't watch it so it becomes kind of how much do i love it until

00:22:02.380 and then i'll tell you when that the two curves meet when come the spring in the playoffs assume

00:22:08.280 the leafs are in and they go on a run the i know a lot of people across canada can't stand when i

00:22:15.400 say stuff like that or anyone does but it moves the needle because of the population and if the

00:22:20.520 leafs went around and go a go around people will sign up because oh i gotta watch it and if montreal

00:22:26.320 they went to the conference final last year we had conor mcdavid and the oilers before last year

00:22:32.080 went to two straight stanley cup finals that moves the needle here you have this canadian

00:22:37.160 superstar at a canadian team going to the cup final two years in a row and you have huge numbers

00:22:42.220 across canada people watching so that's when things happen when there's when there's compelling

00:22:47.640 content when there's something in your neighborhood if it's the audible senators or the winnipeg jets

00:22:52.500 are back in the playoffs all those people who are like no no no i'm not going to do it like yeah i'm

00:22:57.260 going to sign up to rogers so i can get my sports net content so i can watch my team in the playoffs

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00:23:17.320 Right. No, no, I get you.

00:23:18.820 But there's a lot of components.

00:23:20.280 You know, the nice part is you're not unbuffered

00:23:22.840 because, quite frankly, you know, I think I mentioned to you,

00:23:26.260 and you did a show on this with Hockey Night in Canada

00:23:28.940 in the Punjabi uh television you know going off the air and they had done such great work in the

00:23:36.040 country and they and they produced some amazing broadcasters right but it's interesting because

00:23:40.600 then they came out and they said listen uh we're taking it off the air because quite frankly we

00:23:45.720 only have a thousand people a game I see now I'm going to say something management and television

00:23:54.160 can spin any number any way they want to make a decision no i know it's been my experience all

00:23:59.960 of a sudden if they like you paul the numbers are great we're going to sign you if they don't like

00:24:04.800 you they will find some number out of the ether and say yeah the number's not good we got to get

00:24:09.100 rid of you that's just the way the business works but based on the way numerus works there's no way

00:24:13.780 they could ever get this number so quite frankly that's where i was going so thank you but but you

00:24:17.940 know how many punjabi families and hindu families had people meters i'd like to know that well

00:24:23.360 probably one or two whatever the number is but quite frankly and they extrapolated that across

00:24:28.400 and it's a very low number so that's a really hard a hard number to pick right so it really is

00:24:33.880 but the interesting part is so now you know the show is the shows we're talking about now

00:24:39.500 now they're going to charge for for hockey yeah right so canadians are going to pay you got to

00:24:45.940 pay right and they they jacked up the price you pay to start this season okay so now this is an

00:24:51.800 interesting part so is it to and what you're describing is a premium product so you're

00:24:56.440 describing so the next step in my mind from a business plan from an ecosystem if i'm sitting

00:25:01.600 in their shoes is you have and they've already got some of this happening you have the seasonal

00:25:06.760 package and then you have the playoff package and then you have a premium price for the playoff

00:25:11.980 package and then you have as you now as you get going eventually it'll stratify it into quarter

00:25:18.140 finals i understand it if you sign up for a year that includes the playoffs no but that's now yeah

00:25:25.020 that's now you think in the future oh 100 so well i got it they got to be careful how far they push

00:25:30.620 that paul because if you're if you're paying from october to april one price and they're saying by

00:25:36.380 the way now that it's mid-april in the playoffs start we're going to charge you more i mean you

00:25:40.700 you can it gets to the point where people start going you know what i'm going to get an illegal

00:25:45.740 box i'm going to hack into an illegal website and you're not going to get any of my money but that's

00:25:51.020 your supply i guess that's your supply demand decision right so remember boxing see boxing

00:25:55.980 took a similar what is everyone got greedy and they wanted to you know pay-per-view and then we

00:26:01.100 went to pay-per-view and then quite frankly you started off remember 39 pay-per-view yes very

00:26:06.060 vividly then it went to 59 69 what happened to boxing it died right because you you can't keep

00:26:13.980 pushing and pushing to get more money you can only go so far but but is if fewer people watch during

00:26:20.380 the season then your price to watch the season be it becomes lower you know i only see this ever

00:26:26.460 being stratified into more tears and then what i mean jim i i know you don't like to hear that 0.88

00:26:31.740 i don't think rogers would be stupid enough to do that they're already facing backlash for the 0.93

00:26:36.700 increased rates now paul they can't go to that model they simply can't well because eventually 0.98

00:26:42.140 you've lost every shred of goodwill and people start turning your back on you so i i think they

00:26:47.260 if the price is this is how much you pay a month or a year that's going to be the price but turn

00:26:52.860 your back on you and then quite frankly you move you move it over to sell you move it over to

00:26:59.900 other products like well you can watch yourself now when you pay the price you can watch it in

00:27:04.220 any device but you have multiple products what i'm saying is you know rogers has you know

00:27:09.100 broadcasting is one piece digital is another piece cell is another piece you have all these

00:27:14.940 you know it's you know that whole ecosystem that we just described you know is the rogers bundle

00:27:20.780 as they call it yeah exactly so as one piece source starts to fail you just enhance the other

00:27:25.820 piece or increase the price on it quite frankly so you survive it until people have to come back

00:27:30.540 to you it's the supply demand so if if and people if people have an interest in it and they want to

00:27:36.540 watch it they will eventually pay your price because i paul i understand the the economics

00:27:42.220 of it but this is this is hockey in canada and if you're charging people a price in october november

00:27:48.940 you can't jack it up for the playoffs i i mean this is this might be a france school protest

00:27:54.940 in the streets and burning uh garbage cans and postal cans listen i wouldn't discount

00:27:59.980 don't you know that talk i would not discount because quite frankly you look at um you look

00:28:06.060 at uh bad calls in montreal back you know when we were winning stanley cups in montreal they would

00:28:12.220 riot in the streets with a bad call from the referee right and in vancouver 2011 when they

00:28:16.780 lost to the bruins exactly so you see the impact of all this quite frankly but but this is kind of

00:28:22.780 the control that we've given that could allow you know could allow something like this to happen and

00:28:27.260 quite frankly i'm not saying they'll riot don't get me wrong no no no i'm saying people they

00:28:32.140 can't go it is the supply demand so you know what used to kind of be in a free market has now come

00:28:38.940 into a place where your supply demand curve will be what is going to indicate what your pricing is

00:28:44.620 your pricing depending on how many people so all the days of looking at you know numerus and looking

00:28:50.760 at you know hits and online and everything else are all great but now you're in now you've you've

00:28:56.920 graduated or we've graduated into a very simple supply demand curve where quite frankly

00:29:01.440 a bunch of uh economists and finance guys are going to sit in a room and say okay here's the

00:29:07.660 data we have on who does what when they do it great frankly okay let's take that broad take

00:29:11.900 it across we'd be better to increase this three dollars take that down four dollars okay here's

00:29:16.300 how we maximize this curve it makes the curve very easy to balance and the competitive force

00:29:20.920 in it jim isn't really that significant paul sorry you can't think like an accountant this this is

00:29:26.180 not this is not numbers and cents this is hockey this is passion this is generations sitting

00:29:32.680 together in their rec room watching saturday night hockey knowing they have to pay for it if

00:29:38.640 you make them pay more just because ottawa or edmonton are in the playoffs they'll lose their

00:29:43.380 mind whatever the price is leave it at that regular season or postseason you cannot have

00:29:48.980 tiers of pricing simply cannot do it you'll have to there you'll have to find a way to make other

00:29:54.800 money other ways if you're rogers but you just can't do that to the people you're in that place

00:30:00.520 but i know i know you don't like it's canada it's you you can't you're gonna tell people

00:30:07.180 that they've watched it free since 1952 they're only gonna have to pay you're gonna have to pay

00:30:12.600 more because your team's in the playoffs no no okay but it's not only hockey jim so now we're

00:30:18.520 sitting it's interesting because now i was looking at uh the most watched television broadcast in

00:30:23.760 canada it was the olympic final uh yeah the you hit it on 2010 men's hockey uh gold medal yep the

00:30:32.860 golden goal right the kid yeah so they say 16 million people watched it that's right so now

00:30:38.140 where are you going to find that in canadian broadcasting now let's say it's a um a montreal

00:30:46.560 name the team montreal's in the stanley cup final if toronto's in the stanley cup final

00:30:53.060 probably you're setting some kind of records yeah okay but now i'm with you but now all the

00:30:59.580 olympics so quite frankly when you look the first one two three uh well there's a world series on

00:31:05.720 here there's a world series number four the 2025 dodgers toronto game well of course that was yeah

00:31:11.280 that just happened so quite frankly it's on here and you go down to uh number eight when you have

00:31:16.820 dodgers in toronto game six and then you have san francisco kansas city number nine uh super bowl

00:31:23.700 so now each and every event that happens who's going to broadcast it well tsn has the super bowl

00:31:33.720 and tsn does it with ctv so you can watch it on ctv for free uh but hockey now will all be um

00:31:41.960 charge and like right now amazon prime video they've got games and playoff games as well if

00:31:47.000 you want to watch hockey in canada if you want to watch content you'll have to pay for it now

00:31:52.760 the only way it wouldn't be that way is if cbc and i don't think they have the money to do this

00:31:59.360 they retain the olympic hockey rights and the olympic rights for the next olympics now

00:32:04.760 the last number olympics they've been forced to do a consortium with other broadcasters they

00:32:10.720 simply don't have the money at cbc to bid so they do a partnership with tsn bell media and with

00:32:17.840 rogers sportsnet to broadcast the games to share the talent share the production share the technical

00:32:24.160 expertise to broadcast it so so we've been able to for free well see now that's a good question i i

00:32:30.940 have to look up the next olympics if the hockey will be free that's not a sure thing if rogers

00:32:37.700 has the rights and they decide we may be paying for it it may be part of your hockey package right

00:32:43.860 part of your hockey patch but an add-on based on supply demand will set the pricing to cover the

00:32:48.580 cost so we could acquire it so now so now the interesting part here's the interesting part to

00:32:54.340 this discussion they don't really know the number of people who view it they have it's they think

00:33:00.820 they know they think well they have a ballpark they have you know based on what their best guess

00:33:05.700 yeah it's an extrapolation based on a low sample size across a big population and quite frank so

00:33:10.980 they don't really know so the it's kind of a swag right because can they and they hope they can get

00:33:15.220 advertisers to cover it so they hope they can get some advertising dollars in place to actually make

00:33:19.620 it all wash but paul think about all the viewing parties so for like the the olympic gold medal

00:33:25.700 game there's an account for all the people in a viewing party or a sports bar or in a super bowl

00:33:30.740 there's a counselor that's the thing where it's kind of inaccurate and then if there's a sports

00:33:35.620 bar with 100 people and there's not a people leader there they're not counted no no i'm with

00:33:40.580 you and you never but they don't know that's what i'm saying they don't so it's a swag at a number

00:33:46.020 so the number you know your challenges now we're in an environment where all these decisions are

00:33:51.940 on a supply demand curve which is based sort of on a pseudonym we're we're whittling down

00:33:57.940 our competition in the broadcasting networks to the point where there's no question there's no

00:34:02.100 question point to the point where quite frankly it's really them who have to figure out okay i'm

00:34:08.180 going to create this supply demand curve i don't want to miss because i don't want to lose money

00:34:11.620 on it i'd like to make this a profitable event so therefore it only you know as as the numbers come

00:34:16.820 out for what you're going to pay per event it's going to be high but paul the problem is that

00:34:22.180 you can't live in a vacuum if you're rogers people are paying 190 180 a liter for gas they can't feed 1.00

00:34:29.060 their family they can't they the affordability level in this country is teetering on the brink 1.00

00:34:34.500 and they're like i don't have the money to give you that i just don't you you know those you know

00:34:39.620 those uh pictures you see in new york when fifa's playing where they're all sitting outside the

00:34:44.420 store owner's shop and they're all sitting on chairs in new york with the smoke coming out of

00:34:48.980 the greats and there's like 20 people watching the little tv yeah that's where we're going jim

00:34:54.820 that's where we're going that's where that what about seniors in the senior home i have my mother

00:35:00.580 who's going to be 85 on a fixed income she can't afford extra money and there's seniors across

00:35:06.500 canada but then a fixed income can't afford extra money to watch hockey but but it's not a bad thing

00:35:12.100 jim i'm not saying it's bad because quite frankly remember when you were a kid you also the whole

00:35:16.340 neighborhood used to crowd around that one tv yeah to see that one event that's where we're going

00:35:21.140 back to we're going back to like that seniors home we'll actually have you have the package

00:35:26.100 we'll go to your place and i'll bring some nachos or the senior home everyone will pool their money

00:35:30.260 into it right and we'll all get around all their walkers but that's where we're going to and and

00:35:37.700 the funny thing is you know it's interesting because technology we never thought we would

00:35:42.180 go backward in technology we thought no no but it's actually it's interesting and you know

00:35:47.780 this is kind of a dr jang moment nick's going to cringe when i say that but you know where

00:35:52.340 quite frankly we start to recess back in our technology based on what's happening this is

00:35:57.140 a recession back into our technology so at some point there'll be a bunch of people um sitting

00:36:03.300 around watching one tv because this tears and supply demand and the cost and the cost will

00:36:12.260 will knock people out and if you if you think um these companies are adept or resilient or

00:36:20.340 uh sharp enough to figure that out real time i struggle with that paul the the proof in the will

00:36:26.500 be in the pudding so come spring yeah if there's two three if their case four canadian nhl teams

00:36:34.260 in the playoffs if one or two of them go far that moves the needle that keeps the numbers up it

00:36:40.100 keeps the overall ratings up the clicks the impressions it keeps the conversation going um

00:36:46.980 fair or not they need a toronto montreal playoff run ottawa's having a great start to the year

00:36:52.020 winnipeg's off to a good start ottawa so they need some of that or some of the really bright young

00:36:58.420 stars and other american teams to have big play they would love to have sydney crosby go on a

00:37:03.700 magical run late in his career anything to keep the people watching to justify the cost okay

00:37:10.020 if the economy stays up i put a condition on it because if the economy stays up because quite

00:37:15.380 frankly if tariffs go and uh any further and they prolong if our or if our gas prices prolong

00:37:22.660 and quite frankly you could have that many people watching but quite at some point they drop out

00:37:28.740 then you're going to see the supply demand because then they're going to have

00:37:32.020 see that's the you know the i got what you're saying and you're saying if this happens if that

00:37:37.460 happens right this is kind of a real estate conundrum if all these things happen the real

00:37:41.380 estate market continues to appreciate right yeah but that's in a perfect world yeah if for example

00:37:46.500 the bottom fights they have a fixed cost so that this is kind of the the the risk to the argument

00:37:51.860 the risk to the business plan is they put the seven the 917 million dollars a year out so

00:37:58.180 gary bettman in the nhl gets it no matter if they make money or not they don't say i'm sorry the

00:38:02.420 market fell out on you but pay me pay me right so then they're going to have to transfer that across

00:38:07.620 if the supply demand on their other products can't absorb it and create frankie it can't absorb it

00:38:12.420 then the only thing to do is to jack the cost it's an interesting it's an interesting there

00:38:16.660 but it's you know i think i think paul it's a matter when they jack the cost because they

00:38:21.380 jacked the cost up quite a bit this year i think they'll have to wait a few years before they bump

00:38:26.260 it up again what did it go for ten dollars i think it went up to 34.99 from 24.99 with the

00:38:33.700 and a lot of people wait the base package plus the sports package and i think that was a bit

00:38:37.780 of a shock a sticker shock for a lot of canadians so i at the very least they'll have to keep that

00:38:43.380 price set for a couple years until people relax and calm down before they even think about bumping

00:38:48.340 it up again they have to well jim you know what time will tell but i'll be back on this show with

00:38:54.500 you soon i think yeah all right nothing's free anymore nothing

True Patriot Love - October 11, 2026

Canada’s Hockey Is Going Behind a Paywall

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