00:12:01.500I blame the government that says immigration is a low priority, you know, portfolio, unless the minister makes it a priority like Jason Kenney did, you know, 15 years ago.
00:12:13.860But if it's a low priority program, I mean, a low priority cabinet post.
00:12:19.840So they keep bringing people in and those people don't know what to do for at least two years.
00:12:25.500There's either an election or they get changed.
00:12:27.320we've had five, six immigration ministers since COVID. And we've got another one now who's in
00:12:33.080trouble because it doesn't look like she can do the job. So we're going to change again. Again,
00:12:38.100like I told you, the senior managers in the department love it. Because not only are they
00:12:41.860not being held accountable for their mistakes, and they made mistakes, you know, they're now
00:12:47.480having to fix it the way they want to fix it. So we end up now with this big problem. Now,
00:12:52.740Of course, when they finally realized it's a problem in mid-2024, you know, they end up having a minister in Mark Miller who, the one thing he did do was make decisions.
00:13:04.220So you started getting bang, bang, bang, you know, hard decisions, overkill in some cases.
00:13:11.680And yes, we're going to have far fewer students come to Canada now than even way back 10, 15 years ago.
00:13:16.380okay they're not even making the targets and and canada now has a reputation of being a bad place
00:13:22.520to go to be a student well that's not true the education system is still great you know um they
00:13:28.200also you know the students got blamed for everything including yeah rents were higher
00:13:32.580because there's a lot of them renting house prices has little or nothing to do with immigration
00:13:36.900it's too small a population we've all seen what's happened with house prices in the toronto and
00:13:42.620Vancouver areas now, you know, has nothing to do with immigration. It has everything to do with
00:13:47.120interest rates and oversupply of the wrong kind of housing and all that stuff. So, you know,
00:13:53.220that's sort of where we're at now. And we've come to the point now where the government's
00:13:58.340implementing all of these changes. But now if, and I think we were asked the question,
00:14:05.600if you were a student outside of Canada, would you come to Canada now to become a permanent
00:14:09.080resident? And the answer is no. But would you come to Canada for good education? Yes.
00:14:13.080Well, you know, Phil, we definitely had issues, as you mentioned, and we definitely had failures
00:14:19.520in the system. And, you know, that costs human consequences. And I was reading an article
00:14:24.220the other day, and the High Commissioner of India reported that eight students died by suicide in
00:14:32.4802020 alone due to financial shame and failing to secure a comfortable return to their families.
00:14:40.100And, you know, it's interesting because, you know, I think I mentioned to you, my wife is Nepalese
00:14:44.980and, you know, I didn't really fully understand how much people from around the world
00:14:52.620leverage, sell their land, sell their homes until I actually met her. And, you know, it's interesting.
00:15:00.160So, um, when you mentioned, you know, people sell the land they have back home and they
00:15:06.880mortgage it to send their kids to school.
00:15:08.880Well, you know, we don't realize that even though we do some of that here, but most of
00:15:13.500us as Canadians, um, you know, we start on our own, we get a little seed money from our
00:15:18.480parents and then we take off and we grow our own lives in countries, you know, in India
00:15:23.300and nepal and other parts of the world um you know the family uh keeps that home and that land for
00:15:30.500for decades and decades and passes it on to their kids in this case they take this giant leap and
00:15:38.020they mortgage everything they have to send their child to canada in this case to try to find a job
00:15:44.820to make money to pay back those loans and that's what was happening right and uh i even to the
00:15:50.820point where you know she showed me a picture one day and i was actually absolutely awestruck we're
00:15:55.220going to throw it up on the screen um and on the show but uh and it was an airport scene from
00:16:02.500Kathmandu where thousands of people show up at the airport to see these people off as they're going
00:16:08.100to canadian schools and i really think we you know we we didn't realize what we were doing at the time
00:16:14.900as we got going into this and the consequences that were going to come of it so you know when i
00:16:19.620when i brought up you know the people responsible and you were kind enough to
00:16:23.140you know let me uh fill me in on what had happened you know i i do think it is uh
00:16:30.340distributed responsibility and not a single point between the culprits that cause this and the human
00:16:36.500consequences that we've created and i i now look at it and i i'm i'm looking at you mentioned you
00:16:43.620know some of the challenges with housing and infrastructure well now we have like huge defaults
00:16:49.140for example, up in Brampton. I was just reading on the weekend with homes and things going on
00:16:54.580right now for people who came and settled, even got their PR, and they're not going to be able
00:17:00.680to make the next round. So, you know, I want to talk to you about that. And what are some of the
00:17:05.880solutions the government's trying to, you know, put in place? And maybe Nir, you can share with
00:17:10.660me, like, we now have 2,300 people waiting and trying to figure out their future. What are some
00:17:16.580of the solutions that the government's trying to enact to, you know, hopefully take care of some
00:17:21.640of these challenges right now? I personally think that what, I mean, what Phil was mentioning
00:17:27.900regarding policy is true. But I think what they're doing now is they're putting a band-aid on a
00:17:34.260problem that they created. And what we're finding is that, and correct me from wrong, Phil,
00:17:40.320I don't necessarily see that the immigration department's coming up with a solution. I think
00:17:45.680what they're doing is that they're essentially trying to put a band-aid on a problem they created
00:17:52.020and try to look good in front of the public by limiting the possible options of individuals
00:18:01.520staying in Canada, like the students that came here or the temporary foreign workers.
00:18:06.560Jobs are not readily available. Employers are unable to offer positions to keep foreign workers
00:18:12.960in Canada. The department that reviews job offers, the ESDC, they're making it a much,
00:18:20.160much more of a difficult process for employers to keep and retain staff. So these individuals
00:18:25.360are effectively having no choice but to leave or stay in the country without status. And the same
00:18:31.760happens with international students. They cannot proceed to their path of permanent residency.0.98
00:18:36.960and so and I'm sure Phil has more to say on that but from what I personally see I don't see a0.73
00:18:44.220solution I see a problem that's actually going to become a bigger problem especially in the labor
00:18:50.560market. Yeah there is no one single solution there are there are certain call them inalienable facts
00:18:58.260the fact is Canada will have a target number of permanent residents in a year and that target
00:19:04.080number is partially politically driven and part and should be economically driven to say look we're
00:19:13.360going to need this many people we know how many people are alive in canada we know how many people
00:19:17.680die every year we know how many people are born every year you know we we're one of the few
00:19:22.320countries in the world facing a demographic crisis um that has actually been resolving that crisis by
00:19:28.480bringing in young people that's fundamentally it and it is delaying at least for 40 or 50 years
00:19:34.320which will be after i'm gone you know any sort of problem like japan is having or germany is0.63
00:19:38.960in the midst of or south korea is terrible and china is falling victim to you know this demographic
00:19:45.680uh deficit deficiency um so that's the economic target that's a fixed number that goes up and
00:19:52.000down for political reasons but we need more people otherwise there won't be enough people to pay for
00:19:57.120me when i'm really a burden okay and i intend to be a burden okay so that's that's one fact the
00:20:03.520other fact is the other number we bring in are temporary residents and temporary residents are
00:20:08.000supposed to be temporary residents and they should be brought in as necessary we we have no trouble
00:20:13.360with the temporary residents who come here to as tourists right they come here to go to banff they
00:20:18.480go to you know the maritimes they're coming to see toronto they're tourists that's all temporary
00:20:23.040residents and we love them we want more and more of them to come and we want to make sure that they
00:20:27.680don't stay after they come in and 99 don't so we're always in favor of those temporary residents
00:20:34.400like i said and for students now well we have the highest percentage of university graduates of any0.96
00:20:40.240country in the world which is we can be proud of that except it also means that we have too many
00:20:47.360and that our taxi drivers used to have bachelor's degrees and uber drivers now they have master's
00:20:54.620degrees you know and those are not the outcomes we need so you've got this limiting factor there
00:21:00.040that says temporary residents have to leave and and unfortunately because of what happened that
00:21:06.260many of the temporary residents who were coming to Canada believed that they would be able to stay
00:21:10.860and had faith in the future and did what you said Paul and said yeah let's invest in future let's do
00:21:16.160what my father did when he came from Ireland on a whim to take a job in Saskatchewan, okay?
00:21:21.940And the same thing with so many other immigrants coming to Canada, and we love that story.
00:21:27.580These people are doing the same thing, right? So when they're coming to Canada, you know,
00:21:32.580the trouble is we ended up getting it wrong after COVID, and now we have so many of them,
00:21:39.040that's become the problem. And we have to deal with that problem while we're trying to keep the
00:21:44.140rest of the system going. And to do that, what the government is trying to do now, because they don't
00:21:48.040have an answer, they're doing as many little things as they can. For example, they're now changing the
00:21:54.100complete express entry system, where before people knew that if you came to Canada, got a Canadian
00:21:59.020education, got Canadian work experience, and you were young enough, you could become a permanent
00:22:03.240resident. Well, now they're saying international work experience is just as good as Canadian
00:22:07.860experience. International education is just as good as Canadian education. And they took away
00:22:13.220a bunch of other little categories that's what the new express entry system is moving to in the next
00:22:17.960five or six months and and so they're telling all of these hundreds of thousands of students
00:22:23.220currently in school or currently on work permits and they've got a couple years to go
00:22:27.920you're not going to be able to stay so they want them to know now to plan to leave again it's not
00:22:35.860the best idea they shouldn't have come in the first place but now that they're here they're
00:22:39.300they're trying to get them to leave. They've now discontinued the refugee process for people who've1.00
00:22:44.560been in the country for more than a year, which makes eminent sense, okay? But they're letting1.00
00:22:49.120all of those people who thought that was an outlet get work permits so that while they're here
00:22:54.060waiting for their hopeless case for the next two, three, four, or five years, that they're at least
00:22:58.720working. You know, they're not a burden on society. And they're doing the same with Ukrainians and
00:23:05.240with Syrians and that they're saying you can stay and you can keep working, you know, but
00:23:11.280when the crises end and it eventually will end, maybe it's 10 years, whatever, a lot0.97
00:25:20.340And if we can spread this out long enough, you know, and maybe they're hoping for some good luck.
00:25:26.200You know, if Kuzma gets negotiated properly and the war in Iran ends and Canadian economy takes off like it has in the past, they're hoping for that.
00:25:35.000But that's about all we have right now is hope.
00:25:40.000And none of this was done by people of ill intent or of, you know, let's get people to be able to vote for this party or that party.
00:25:47.560That's too simplistic an answer for anyone.
00:25:50.340You know, these are complex problems that were created in a tsunami, if you will, of the forces coming together at a time of chaos, you know, because this is broken.
00:26:03.500You know, Phil, I definitely, you know, I don't think if in America they call it flooding the zone.
00:26:10.720I think if they were trying to flood the zone, it didn't work because you wouldn't get many people to vote for them when they do become, if they ever did become permanent residents.
00:26:19.460And so I definitely think they've lost that.
00:26:22.080So if that was the intent, it was totally misguided.
00:26:24.840But, you know, creating when I got ready for the show, it was interesting.
00:26:28.560I wrote down and I said, you know, does Canada really need more immigration right now?
00:26:33.520And I think you answered the question.
00:26:35.000And I wrote down in my notes, I said, no.
00:26:38.240I said, we need to deal with and, you know, quick back of the envelope figures.
00:26:42.220We need to deal with the 2.3 million people that we have to figure out what's next for them right now, to your point.
00:26:49.460And then basically figure out what we're doing as Canada.
00:26:54.240That's the frustrating part right now because, you know, I just, I'm about to do,
00:26:58.300I mentioned to you, I'm about to do a budget show later on today,
00:27:00.840and we're talking about trying to train or retrain 100,000 skilled workers in Canada,
00:27:07.580which we've been horrifically bad at in every province that I can name.
00:27:12.860There's been a scandal around our trade development programs that's just been a boondoggle.
00:27:17.520So, I don't know how we're going to do on that, but it sure kind of then speaks to me that it would be smart now to start to figure out which of those people in these categories of people that are now here and waiting to find their outcome or waiting to go back, would we want to direct to actually go into mining, to go into, you know, carpenter, plumber, to get them into skilled trades, to get them going?
00:27:44.460Um, is there any, you know, you want to talk about a little bit about skilled trades and
00:27:50.560any work the government's doing right now and in those programs?
00:27:54.660Well, I think the, the, the problem is that the government isn't just one, one focus,
00:31:17.360of finding the individuals in different countries
00:31:21.520Or is it a problem of trade equivalency licensing requirements in the different provinces and then also finding employers who are eligible to hire because ESDC is now putting in major restrictions for employers?
00:31:45.200Any profession that I know of where there's a shortage, they'll make allowances for people.
00:31:50.080So, you know, when BC's had a shortage of nurses forever, you didn't have to have your nursing designation to be able to come and work as a nurse in BC.
00:31:59.740The same thing happened in Alberta in all the trades.
00:32:02.980You know, so the idea that credential recognition is a problem, I think that's a boondoggle, to be perfectly blunt.
00:32:08.460Now, the flip side is ESDC needs to get far better at enforcement and far more businesslike in terms of exempting good employers from what they're doing.
00:32:24.520How can you say, look, the major employers in this country should be able to bring in temporary foreign workers if they need them, you know, when you get franchisees of Canadian tire abusing their workers?
00:32:34.580I mean, Canadian Tire, you know, or major business operations like that.
00:32:40.500So to me, there has to be far more enforcement and business owners need to go to jail.
00:32:45.440You know, if they're abusing people, what's the difference between one of us getting involved in human trafficking
00:32:51.080or having a business owner not pay his workers and threatening them with deportation,
00:32:58.640which is wrong and doesn't happen and can't happen, you know, if they don't do what they're told?
00:33:04.580You know, I mean, to me, that's abusive people and they should go to jail, but that's my part.
00:33:10.400Now you're getting into my personal pet peeve.
00:33:12.100So the idea is we can find the people, you know, it's just difficult.
00:33:18.160And the government needs to have much greater consultation with people who are doing the actual hiring.
00:33:25.380They do have some good streams, right?
00:33:26.980Global skills and there's exempt streams where you can bring people in without having to go through the LMIA process.
00:33:34.280But unfortunately, all of those streams, every individual application is now being managed and overseen by a visa officer who has no idea.
00:33:44.980Visa officers are trained in immigration law, and they have something called unfettered discretion.
00:33:51.640If a visa officer doesn't like the application that's in front of him, he can refuse it, and no one can change his decision.
00:33:59.960all not not his boss not the minister not the prime minister not the king the only person who
00:34:05.980can change it somewhat is a federal court judge who can say send it to somebody else okay and and
00:34:13.200if they send it to somebody else that somebody else could still refuse it okay so you've got
00:34:17.840this process in place that's that acts like a a massive break on on justifiable schools and how
00:34:25.360How does a visa officer know whether a business is an ethical business, right?
00:34:30.720They have to have good enforcement because people, there are some business owners who
00:40:08.640You know, they've actually done it by limiting intake virtually on a racial basis,
00:40:14.640you know and and keeping more people out um so there only are five or six countries in the world
00:40:21.000where where it's a problem where people actually want to go to you know it's it's the uk it's
00:40:25.600central europe you know it's canada the u.s australia right what other country accepts
00:40:31.680millions of immigrants um nobody well the middle east does but that's tens of millions of workers
00:40:37.720and they all must go back and they all you know are are treated like slaves fundamentally so you
00:40:43.580you've got all of this that part going on but but we're on an almost unique and we are in a unique
00:40:48.700situation because nobody else's immigration system was smashed to pieces like ours was you
00:40:53.580know it's it's not an excuse it's a fact um it's because the way it was all structured to begin
00:40:58.700with and it was uniquely affected by covid um and and but you know when when people weren't going
00:41:05.500back to to work you know to in their offices um you know what what can happen um immigration was
00:41:13.420the funny story they had was that everybody went home and they said okay you can all work from home
00:41:17.420and then about a week later a memo came out saying wait a minute not unless your computers are rated
00:41:22.220for the privacy act which none of them were so we're going to get you a laptop well the it department
00:41:28.540it didn't have anybody working in it so they couldn't source 5 000 you know laptops and
00:41:33.500eventually after three or four months they said okay buy your own laptop this to a civil service
00:41:37.980that had just finished 10 years of going through the the phoenix scandal with their pay systems
00:41:42.620and couldn't even trust the government to pay them so nobody was buying their own laptop so
00:41:47.180you know by the time they got enough in place and like i said i think maybe if it's the federal
00:41:53.340government it's like three days a week now they have to be back at work and then it'll be four
00:41:56.540days and whatever so it's still there anyway so i mean we were just impacted that way um and i
00:42:03.180I think we all want to find an easy solution.
00:42:07.360We all want to find a guilty victim, I mean, a guilty party, you know,
00:42:11.920because we've got lots of victims, for sure.
00:42:14.300And people like Nir and myself, we see people every day that want to come to Canada
00:42:18.760or that are in trouble because they wanted to come to Canada, and it's not working out.
00:42:22.680And these days, we're seeing a lot of people, you know.
00:42:25.940And unfortunately, those are the people that are desperate,
00:42:28.580and they become vulnerable to anybody with a good story, you know,
00:42:32.580because they don't just have to be out in the fields in Nepal or in India to get taken in by
00:42:36.820a fast-talking salesperson, okay, with no ethics. You know, they're right here in Canada. And we
00:42:44.960see stuff like that. It's really hard because we get their life stories in person in front of us
00:42:51.940all the time. Now, again, the other solution that the department has to do this business about the
00:42:57.580people in the department running to show they need to have a check okay checks and balances
00:43:03.740the minister can't be it because they don't know so the minister needs and our big recommendation
00:43:09.520is to set up an advisory council not of industry people or consumer associates they don't know
00:43:14.980anything about immigration but lawyers and immigration consultants know everything about
00:43:19.300the system and many of them used to work in the department so they need to have a like the minister
00:43:24.480needs to set up an advisory body of professionals who know how the system works to keep track and
00:43:30.560to make sure the department isn't calling all the shots all the time, because they'll do it
00:43:36.400in their own self-hunters. I mean, the last one I'll say is the whole express entry system was
00:43:42.560set up to say who should come to Canada for economic reasons, and the people in the department
00:43:49.040said it should be people who look just like us young university educated bilingual um with you
00:43:58.000know um some canadian work experience those make the perfect canadians and they did that in 2015
00:44:05.360and for 10 years until we ended up with too many people just like that who couldn't find a job
00:44:12.160right okay but that's what happens when the department you know gets to have all the say
00:44:16.880Yeah. And I wanted to jump in for a minute on the EU. And it's interesting because I was just reading recently, and I didn't even know, that there's a new asylum pact going into effect in 2026, basically, where they're all going to work together to work on fast-track deportations and basically control people.
00:44:40.020So that's kind of an alarming also thing that we have to look at for Canada, because quite frankly, when people look for places to go and those places are shut off, it's going to cause, you know, it's a shift around the world, is it not?0.55
00:44:54.860Well, there's a bigger one than that, and that's what's just happened in the United States.
00:44:59.180The Supreme Court last week started hearings on Trump's decisions to end what's called temporary protected status.
00:45:07.240TPS is what the Ukrainians have in Canada now, or the Syrians.
00:45:11.680Well, the U.S. has had that for many years, and they've got different communities.
00:45:16.160And Trump has moved to get rid of TPS for people from several different countries all over the world.0.76
00:45:25.240There are 360,000 Haitians in the United States now on temporary protective status.
00:45:30.480And in June, the Supreme Court will come down with a decision.
00:45:33.180And if they take away temporary protective status for 360,000 desperate French speaking people who you think they want to go back to Haiti, nor will they want to stay in the U.S. because the U.S. can say, OK, we won't send you back to Haiti.
00:45:49.680We'll send you to Uganda or or to Burkina Faso or we'll send you to El Salvador because they can deport to third countries.0.88
00:45:58.380canada won't right the haitians now all know that if they can get into canada any way they can1.00
00:46:04.540they can say because we won't deport them yeah no no i know when i when i was building down
00:46:10.220in florida right a huge haitian population so i got to know them very well and they they love
00:46:15.420canada to your point phil because of the the language in the french speaking language right
00:46:20.300and i we recently you know in the the by-election show we did uh you know talked about one of the
00:46:25.900key candidates actually being from Haiti and being French-speaking and Quebec. So it's a big
00:46:31.820community in Quebec right now, loved and hard-working group. As we talked about the EU,
00:46:39.020but also, Phil, you mentioned Australia and New Zealand. So I just wanted to touch on there.
00:46:45.820They've really locked and tightened up, but they've primarily now only let in people who have
00:46:51.420skilled trades they really are focused on you have to have a trade and you have to is there
00:46:56.940anything you want to share what they're doing because i always like to look at you know australia
00:47:00.540when we do our mining shows we spend a lot of time looking at what they did to resurrect that
00:47:05.340industry in that country um anything you're seeing there now we can take lessons from they've had
00:47:11.660fits and starts where they've overdone it they went too easy on on certain study permit applications
00:47:18.220had to cut back big time but they've seemed to be maybe because they're they've been so
00:47:25.900isolated for so long being so conscious of the fact that they could be overwhelmed by this1.00
00:47:33.180massive asian population you know for right the wrong reasons initially you know now they1.00
00:47:38.940have you know they could say look we have a culture we have a system we know if we open
00:47:42.620our immigration borders we're going to have you know 15 million chinese and 30 million indians1.00
00:47:47.420in our countries in one year you know i mean and that's probably true okay because they're small0.92
00:47:53.660their country well new zealand's got what eight million people or less um australia's got 20
00:47:58.300million you know i mean they're vulnerable to that so they've always been more cautious if you will
00:48:04.700about allowing people in um so they've never had to do as much um when they've got it wrong they've
00:48:12.060never had to do as as severe things you know so again canada's kind of out there on its own
00:48:19.340right the only country that can come anywhere close in terms of numbers and size and everything
00:48:23.260else is the u.s and it's so fundamentally different because of the you know it's poor
00:48:27.980people going into the u.s through the southern border that's not what canada has you know so
00:48:32.380so we're we got to figure this out on our own yeah and you know we've traditionally you know
00:48:37.900we've been dependent on uh immigration for a lot of our economic stability right especially in
00:48:44.460housing and other industries that have been so fully propped up by that uh it's hard to figure
00:48:50.140out a path forward talk to me a little more so this committee you know in near and your thoughts
00:48:55.900on it too this committee to set up to advise the government i think that's a great idea because
00:49:00.380you know when i set up for the show i had all these ideas on how to how to start uh determining
00:49:06.620key elements of the budget place people with different skill sets if they wanted to work in
00:49:11.340that area. But this committee, who actually is in this committee? And if you had to pick the
00:49:19.020perfect committee to advise the government to get out of this mess right now, who would it be right
00:49:24.220now? Who sits on this committee? How does it function? And how can we try to weave our way out?
00:49:30.060i would love to sit on that committee yeah well you too for sure right and i know phil's done a
00:49:38.060bunch of he's been on a bunch of this since when i met him but you know how do we get how do we get
00:49:43.820a business leader similar you know i i saw what the prime minister did for the tariffs and the
00:49:50.780negotiations on kuzma and you know i wasn't a big fan of it i started i spent more time on it and
00:49:57.160over time, actually, I said, you know what? This is a good idea. He's got enough people around the
00:50:01.520table who at least can advise by industry by industry. I really do believe at this point,
00:50:07.040we need a similar thing for immigration, quite frankly. You need representatives who can talk
00:50:11.860about their industry and start to figure out, like, who do we need in Canada? What trades do we need?
00:50:17.900Not just take a guess at it, not just have people take a swipe. And I hope, and I know this is
00:50:22.820probably not going to happen because in the budget they haven't identified it. I hope we just don't
00:50:27.480create some of these crazy skill-based worker programs again where a bunch of new people go
00:50:33.720into a room, they get work boots, they get a hard hat, and they get one safety training manual,
00:50:39.600and then we try to send them out. I hope we can actually do a better job than that.
00:50:44.260Well, actually, Paul, they have a lot of advisory committees already for different
00:50:49.080industry groups for that the committee i was talking about was one that the minister uses as
00:50:56.120a resource to help control the bureau the bureaucrats in the department okay so that the
00:51:02.520answers that the department gives to the minister when problems arise are not only the answers that
00:51:09.480the department wants because the department's not going to want to have extra work and they don't
00:51:14.840want to have extra complications that make their lives harder and they don't want to give up
00:51:19.160control so what the minister needs and the problem is the minister doesn't know enough
00:51:24.200and and they can't know enough in a short period of time so what they need are a group of five or
00:51:29.480six uh senior manage senior you know old guys if you will but people that have experience working
00:51:35.880with the department or you know in line and there are two uh groups fundamentally they could source
00:51:42.840those people from as long as they put the description of who they need properly and one is
00:51:47.800the association of canadian immigration consultant like capek it's canadian association of professional
00:51:51.800immigration consultants and the other is the bar the the canadian law society the the law society's
00:51:58.760immigration sections you know and they could each send three senior people whose job it was to be
00:52:05.320on call for the minister when policies come up to just to do a review to say does this make sense
00:52:10.360are they missing something here you know um give them the facts it shouldn't be onerous and it
00:52:16.440shouldn't be um the minister should have full authority but they need the authority of the
00:52:20.840minister to deal with the department and that means the mint they need the authority so the
00:52:25.880minister can go to the deputy minister who manages the department and say no you're wrong even though
00:52:31.640the deputy minister reports to the privy council sorry um you know and and technically or the
00:52:37.560prime minister's office you know i mean they need to be able to do that and for the associate
00:52:42.280deputy ministers respect the the knowledge that they have running the department but when it comes
00:52:47.640to immigration policy they they need to do that because there are so many and and they can also
00:52:52.600suggest efficiencies we deal with the system every day and we see mistakes that are made that could
00:52:58.280be could be could really help them with the production process if you will um and and they
00:53:04.600And they need feedback mechanisms from people that use the system all the time so that they
00:53:09.260can address problems faster and better.
00:53:11.840Now, two years ago, they were just buried in everything, all right?
00:53:16.420Now they can use the time they have now to do that, but that's what that committee should
00:53:20.940do functionally within the Department of Immigration, and we'd get better policies