True Patriot Love - December 11, 2025


Canada’s Transit Crisis： Crime, Chaos & Costs


Episode Stats

Length

37 minutes

Words per Minute

169.25887

Word Count

6,301

Sentence Count

431

Hate Speech Sentences

4


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Today on True Patriot Love, we're going to talk crime in our transit system.
00:00:05.300 Nick Dolinsky and Christophe Smith are going to join me,
00:00:08.120 and we're going to dig into what's happening and why across Canada,
00:00:13.160 focusing on some of the announcements that happened over the last week,
00:00:17.380 increasing police presence in our subways,
00:00:20.960 figuring out why people can run faster than our newly developed transit systems.
00:00:26.060 These are all the things we're going to talk about,
00:00:27.900 and also dig into the financial impacts of transit
00:00:32.300 and our transit failures across the nation.
00:00:39.400 Moments of chaos and terror in the Toronto subway.
00:00:45.720 A violent scuffle in the fast-moving train.
00:00:49.360 This video posted to social media appears to capture a stabbing.
00:00:53.540 As one man chases another down the aisle,
00:00:56.120 people push their way up the train amid cries for help.
00:01:00.520 A stampede of panicked commuters.
00:01:05.460 They say a man in his 30s was taken to hospital in life-threatening condition,
00:01:10.600 but is now stable.
00:01:11.960 The suspect is still at large.
00:01:14.100 The motive? Unclear.
00:01:16.000 Toronto's newly minted mayor-elect didn't have all the details on the incident,
00:01:20.340 but says the Toronto Transit Commission is taking action to improve security.
00:01:25.700 They have private security guards.
00:01:30.960 In a statement on Twitter, the TTC said,
00:01:33.280 our thoughts are with the victim,
00:01:35.300 and noted its investment in additional safety and security initiatives.
00:01:38.740 Outside of the subway station, confusion.
00:01:43.140 Commuters in Toronto have been shaken by multiple violent incidents
00:01:47.120 on buses, streetcars, and the subway over the last few years.
00:01:51.380 There have been assaults, stabbings.
00:01:53.740 People have been shoved into the train tracks, even set on fire.
00:01:56.880 In the last year, it has been very iffy and very dangerous, I think.
00:02:02.100 I try not to take TTC towards the night,
00:02:04.220 so I try to schedule my days in a way that I actually finish my work on campus
00:02:08.380 and leave as soon as I possibly can.
00:02:11.840 Today on True Patriot Love, Under the Pillar Crime,
00:02:15.120 we're going to talk about Canada's transit conundrum.
00:02:18.840 And this week, we've seen a lot of that
00:02:22.180 as we've gone through several crimes across Canada on our transit system.
00:02:27.180 And today, I'm lucky enough to have Nick Dolinsky and Christophe Smith joining me.
00:02:32.800 Welcome, guys.
00:02:34.320 So, you know, I wanted really...
00:02:36.160 Christophe, you ride the subway in Toronto every day,
00:02:39.360 so I really wanted you to be here on the show.
00:02:41.120 And Nick, you had lots of opinions when the show came up about sort of...
00:02:44.560 I gave up on riding the transit a few years ago.
00:02:47.540 Yeah.
00:02:47.640 So, you know, the last week, and it's been a crazy week politically
00:02:52.980 and everything going on,
00:02:54.740 but we've seen a number of incidences on transit across Canada.
00:02:59.740 The craziest one, I think, that I saw on the weekend
00:03:02.140 was the transit employee stabbing one of the customers.
00:03:07.920 So it was a really odd story.
00:03:09.980 It broke out that there was a stabbing at one of the stations.
00:03:12.840 I won't bring up the station.
00:03:13.880 A stabbing on the station, and they had arrested the person
00:03:17.980 who had stabbed, had been stabbed.
00:03:21.480 Okay.
00:03:22.800 And because they were in the altercation.
00:03:25.020 And then hours later, it came back that the actual transit employee
00:03:29.580 had stabbed them outside of the subway station.
00:03:33.560 Okay.
00:03:34.260 So this was a new one for me.
00:03:35.500 So I'm like, what the heck is going on?
00:03:38.080 And that was kind of on the heels of the announcement
00:03:41.600 from the police chief of Toronto and Mayor Chow
00:03:45.240 talking about putting police back into our transit system.
00:03:52.200 And they had a whole setup where they were going to put four
00:03:56.720 at this station and four at that station.
00:03:59.060 And Christophe, you know, you and I talked about it, right?
00:04:01.680 Yes.
00:04:02.020 Yeah, just that plan to show more police or officer presence.
00:04:09.040 And just, yeah, we're not sure if that's the right direction,
00:04:12.360 especially with the recent story that it was the people in uniform
00:04:16.720 that kind of caused the problem or the scare.
00:04:20.020 So now I feel like people aren't really a thousand percent confident
00:04:25.500 with having more representation, but more looking for like a solution
00:04:31.580 or something that is actually obtainable or implementable.
00:04:36.220 Well, it has to be, it has to work, quite frankly,
00:04:38.600 because if you're going to grow as a city,
00:04:40.700 which we're trying to grow as a city, we have grown as a city,
00:04:43.440 you know, we've grown up to a crazy number.
00:04:47.000 I think we're at GTA is 7.6 million people right now.
00:04:51.060 You know, so Ontario has grown to 16 million people.
00:04:56.680 I saw that the other day.
00:04:58.020 I was like, wow, you know, we are a big city,
00:05:01.880 but our infrastructure isn't matching that big city mentality.
00:05:05.860 Not at all.
00:05:06.500 I mean, when, you know, if you've ever driven in Toronto,
00:05:09.980 I mean, you have to be an elite driver really to drive,
00:05:12.420 to drive around and be safe because the roads are chaos.
00:05:15.960 And, you know, traffic and all this, it's, you know,
00:05:19.240 transit's really a nightmare in general.
00:05:21.820 Yeah, it is.
00:05:22.540 And with all the new developments,
00:05:24.820 everything from the new zoning act
00:05:27.680 to all the new types of buildings
00:05:29.980 we're seeing being built across Canada,
00:05:32.100 you know, we're now in the era of affordable.
00:05:36.320 You know, I talk about it a lot in other shows,
00:05:39.020 you know, affordable means a lot of things,
00:05:40.500 but what affordable really means,
00:05:41.980 and you see it in the zoning of all these buildings,
00:05:44.920 no parking.
00:05:45.560 So when they say affordable,
00:05:47.860 usually when they actually pass that building,
00:05:49.760 whether it be a sixplex, a multiplex,
00:05:51.640 whether it be small apartments,
00:05:53.600 it doesn't require parking.
00:05:56.000 It has bike racks in the back.
00:05:58.200 So, you know, you look at it and you think,
00:06:00.020 okay, great,
00:06:01.480 but if our transit system's not working,
00:06:04.560 then how do we make this work?
00:06:07.420 Because our population's growing,
00:06:09.480 transit is key,
00:06:10.440 and people right now quite are afraid
00:06:13.500 to go on to our transit system.
00:06:17.680 Yes.
00:06:18.160 Yeah.
00:06:19.140 They're afraid and also, you know,
00:06:21.220 in my case, you know,
00:06:22.340 I was less worried about my safety
00:06:24.560 and more just,
00:06:25.480 I don't have the time in my life
00:06:27.020 to use transit every day.
00:06:29.120 Right.
00:06:29.500 You know,
00:06:29.820 I either have to show up half an hour early
00:06:31.560 or five minutes late
00:06:32.380 for almost anything
00:06:33.780 if you're taking the bus
00:06:34.680 or the subway or whatever.
00:06:36.100 There are delays constantly.
00:06:38.640 It doesn't go everywhere.
00:06:40.400 It's slow.
00:06:41.380 It's unreliable.
00:06:42.160 I mean, it's just,
00:06:43.300 if, you know,
00:06:44.580 you're wasting a lot of time
00:06:46.060 running on the TTC.
00:06:47.720 You really are.
00:06:48.620 Well, and you know that Finch,
00:06:50.380 do you follow the Finch story this morning?
00:06:52.360 Yes.
00:06:52.660 So I was thinking of Christoph, right?
00:06:54.460 And I was thinking of actually,
00:06:56.340 because he loves to run.
00:06:57.300 Yes.
00:06:57.780 He's a runner.
00:06:58.700 He runs all over the city.
00:07:00.060 So I was thinking about actually
00:07:01.540 for that new Finch Westline,
00:07:03.240 actually of having a video
00:07:05.080 of Christoph out running.
00:07:07.260 the cars,
00:07:08.880 like literally,
00:07:09.600 because they're now saying
00:07:11.640 it takes 55 minutes
00:07:14.020 to go 10 kilometers.
00:07:15.520 So what are you doing?
00:07:17.160 So out of curiosity,
00:07:18.320 what's your kilometer time?
00:07:20.020 Ooh, roughly.
00:07:20.800 You don't have to be right on.
00:07:21.940 Yes.
00:07:22.400 Are you doing four minutes?
00:07:23.680 Yes, about, yeah, running four.
00:07:25.840 So he's doing four minutes.
00:07:27.020 So he's there in 40 minutes,
00:07:28.380 but that car is there in 55.
00:07:30.600 Yeah.
00:07:30.920 Oh, I've seen,
00:07:31.940 I've been on the Spadina streetcar
00:07:33.460 and had an old lady pulling groceries
00:07:35.260 beat our streetcar.
00:07:37.880 On Spadina?
00:07:38.500 Oh, yeah.
00:07:39.420 I watched it myself,
00:07:40.700 watched her walk
00:07:41.380 all the way out of the distance
00:07:42.960 while I'm sitting at a light
00:07:44.000 on the Spadina streetcar.
00:07:47.000 Yeah, just get out and walk
00:07:49.260 at that point.
00:07:49.720 You look at it now
00:07:50.700 and you think to yourself,
00:07:51.640 has crime grown?
00:07:53.460 You know,
00:07:53.680 because I know
00:07:54.220 the last three trips
00:07:55.640 on the subway for me,
00:07:56.760 and you do it every day,
00:07:58.200 I had a butt-naked guy
00:08:02.020 come on and sit across from me.
00:08:05.360 Yes.
00:08:06.040 Which I was astonished
00:08:07.720 that everyone in the car
00:08:09.860 just kept reading their book
00:08:12.340 or looking at their phone.
00:08:13.880 And I'm thinking to myself,
00:08:15.160 how the heck?
00:08:16.680 He had no pants on.
00:08:18.680 Yes.
00:08:19.540 Right?
00:08:20.480 And I'm like,
00:08:21.260 and I don't take that.
00:08:22.520 And I'm like,
00:08:23.020 and so, you know,
00:08:23.640 he's sitting like here.
00:08:24.720 Like, you are.
00:08:25.520 He's like, right?
00:08:26.040 Like, you're a neck.
00:08:26.540 And I'm like,
00:08:27.240 can you put your pants on?
00:08:28.600 Like, please.
00:08:29.420 Like, I don't know.
00:08:30.080 And I'm like,
00:08:30.520 what do I do now?
00:08:31.860 You know,
00:08:32.480 because no one's paying attention.
00:08:34.780 I had a guy,
00:08:35.660 I don't know what he was doing,
00:08:37.060 but he was freebasing something
00:08:39.280 at a very noisy level
00:08:41.520 at the back of the car
00:08:43.020 on the second trip,
00:08:44.340 which was,
00:08:45.080 and then he passed out on the floor,
00:08:46.980 which, you know,
00:08:47.960 at that point,
00:08:48.680 and then the third trip,
00:08:50.660 quite frankly,
00:08:51.500 I didn't make
00:08:52.200 because the car stopped.
00:08:53.840 There was an emergency.
00:08:55.340 I had to go above ground.
00:08:57.100 I had to catch an Uber,
00:08:59.020 hustle to my meeting,
00:09:00.200 which was a lunch,
00:09:01.480 to get there.
00:09:02.400 So...
00:09:02.920 And that's aside
00:09:03.840 from the mental health crisis.
00:09:04.780 There was just a delay
00:09:06.400 for unrelated reasons.
00:09:08.420 Yeah.
00:09:08.960 Yeah.
00:09:09.140 Yeah, I mean,
00:09:10.540 I've walked through
00:09:11.120 my share of clouds of meth
00:09:13.220 while walking through
00:09:14.180 a subway station in Toronto.
00:09:16.560 Yeah.
00:09:16.920 There are people just sitting there
00:09:17.700 just doing hard drugs,
00:09:19.800 you know,
00:09:19.980 glass pipe in their hand.
00:09:21.540 Yeah.
00:09:21.920 It seems more prevalent.
00:09:23.200 And then,
00:09:23.660 for some reason,
00:09:24.840 now,
00:09:25.240 I know they do have a police.
00:09:27.760 Do you see,
00:09:28.840 like,
00:09:29.080 when you're,
00:09:29.620 I'm not on the car every day.
00:09:31.300 I'm not on the subway
00:09:32.180 or the train
00:09:32.900 or anything.
00:09:33.980 So are you seeing
00:09:35.040 presence
00:09:36.560 as you're traveling?
00:09:38.020 No.
00:09:38.780 Personally,
00:09:39.360 no.
00:09:39.860 Not in,
00:09:41.380 especially in ratio
00:09:42.380 to the crazy stuff
00:09:44.460 that's happening
00:09:45.020 or things that are
00:09:46.440 out of the norm.
00:09:49.220 I'd say
00:09:49.900 as a people
00:09:51.600 or the population
00:09:52.540 taking the TTC,
00:09:54.360 we kind of
00:09:55.040 accepted
00:09:56.120 or were desensitized
00:09:58.100 to, like,
00:09:59.700 issues,
00:10:00.640 late cars
00:10:02.040 late,
00:10:02.860 all these things.
00:10:03.640 So then,
00:10:04.560 when these occurrences happen,
00:10:06.300 people are like,
00:10:07.180 oh,
00:10:07.420 this is kind of like
00:10:08.160 a normal day,
00:10:09.260 which is kind of
00:10:10.180 a scary feeling
00:10:12.060 in itself
00:10:12.640 where it's like
00:10:13.460 a naked person
00:10:14.320 on the subway.
00:10:15.000 Oh,
00:10:15.080 that's just Tom
00:10:16.020 on Tuesday,
00:10:16.680 you know,
00:10:17.060 Thursday,
00:10:18.140 you know,
00:10:18.540 someone else
00:10:19.380 is going to come
00:10:20.060 or someone's,
00:10:21.140 unfortunately,
00:10:22.120 using the bathroom
00:10:22.980 on there
00:10:23.620 or,
00:10:24.460 you know,
00:10:24.860 and that's not even
00:10:25.580 the normal,
00:10:26.280 like,
00:10:26.900 partiers.
00:10:27.620 The partiers
00:10:28.200 don't even take
00:10:28.900 the TTC anymore
00:10:30.300 because it's too weird,
00:10:31.580 you know,
00:10:32.200 so late night,
00:10:33.040 they'd rather walk,
00:10:33.760 walk it off.
00:10:34.920 So,
00:10:35.620 all,
00:10:36.780 both,
00:10:37.120 both,
00:10:37.560 you know,
00:10:37.720 everything you're saying
00:10:38.480 is like,
00:10:39.020 it's,
00:10:39.380 it's a real thing
00:10:40.480 and just today,
00:10:41.440 even an example,
00:10:43.160 it took,
00:10:43.760 just from Spadina
00:10:45.260 down to Lakeshore,
00:10:46.180 it took about
00:10:46.640 two hours and a bit
00:10:47.800 and the weather came.
00:10:50.780 Not only are we
00:10:51.940 dealing with
00:10:52.680 just issues
00:10:53.820 of delays,
00:10:54.920 constructions,
00:10:56.760 carts are stopped,
00:10:57.940 you have to get off the cart,
00:10:59.120 then it goes backwards,
00:11:00.540 then another cart comes.
00:11:02.400 Today there was snow,
00:11:03.760 so it was a slush party
00:11:05.420 for all the buses.
00:11:06.680 People were trying
00:11:07.420 to stay dry,
00:11:08.320 they're getting splashed,
00:11:09.840 you know,
00:11:10.340 and then,
00:11:11.340 and then there's a fire
00:11:12.180 today in the subway,
00:11:13.220 so then everyone
00:11:14.180 had to leave the subway
00:11:15.480 and take shuttle buses
00:11:16.680 and we weren't ready
00:11:17.840 for shuttle buses,
00:11:19.060 you know,
00:11:19.860 so.
00:11:20.620 There was a fire
00:11:21.280 in the subway?
00:11:21.820 Yes,
00:11:22.360 yeah,
00:11:22.780 so near Lansdowne,
00:11:24.420 I think,
00:11:24.840 as I was getting here,
00:11:25.580 it was being taken care of
00:11:26.680 or they're investigating it,
00:11:28.120 so now you have
00:11:28.600 to get everybody
00:11:29.500 out of the subway
00:11:30.960 above ground,
00:11:32.280 get shuttles going,
00:11:33.440 so are we ready
00:11:34.300 for that infrastructure,
00:11:35.700 you know,
00:11:36.020 wise or planning-wise,
00:11:37.700 so now people are late,
00:11:39.480 wet,
00:11:40.080 people don't have
00:11:40.600 their boots,
00:11:41.600 you know,
00:11:41.880 they're not,
00:11:42.360 not everyone's from Canada,
00:11:44.020 knows the,
00:11:44.680 so those are just
00:11:45.900 a couple things,
00:11:46.780 but yeah,
00:11:47.120 today was a prime example
00:11:48.320 when like weather
00:11:49.340 and like poor planning,
00:11:51.520 you know.
00:11:52.740 To speak on that apathy
00:11:53.960 in terms of,
00:11:54.680 you know,
00:11:54.800 no one's saying anything
00:11:55.980 when these things happen,
00:11:57.000 well,
00:11:57.160 there's a good reason for it,
00:11:58.300 I mean,
00:11:59.260 you know,
00:12:00.780 previous years
00:12:01.840 when I rode the subway,
00:12:03.400 you know,
00:12:03.540 someone would come on
00:12:04.080 and start blaring music
00:12:04.880 and,
00:12:06.420 you know,
00:12:07.600 you just think,
00:12:08.940 you just think,
00:12:11.060 turn that off,
00:12:11.980 please,
00:12:12.340 it's always,
00:12:12.800 they always have
00:12:13.280 the worst taste
00:12:13.840 in music ever,
00:12:14.900 of course,
00:12:15.280 anyone who thinks
00:12:16.980 that's okay to do,
00:12:17.760 but then you think
00:12:18.920 to yourself,
00:12:19.440 like if they think
00:12:20.200 that's okay to do here,
00:12:21.920 they're probably not well
00:12:23.480 in the head,
00:12:24.780 you know,
00:12:24.960 they're not,
00:12:25.780 so me going over there
00:12:26.940 and telling them
00:12:27.380 to turn it off
00:12:28.060 might lead to,
00:12:29.420 and I read a story
00:12:30.580 last week,
00:12:31.160 a guy got stabbed
00:12:32.200 like 13 times
00:12:33.260 or something like that
00:12:33.960 for telling a guy
00:12:35.100 to turn his music off.
00:12:36.580 That's it,
00:12:36.920 just telling a guy
00:12:37.500 to turn his music off,
00:12:38.720 you know?
00:12:39.460 So yeah,
00:12:40.140 it's,
00:12:40.480 that apathy is real
00:12:41.580 and it's sort of like
00:12:42.400 you don't want
00:12:42.700 to get involved,
00:12:43.380 you do not want,
00:12:44.120 you're trapped
00:12:45.020 on this train
00:12:45.720 with this person.
00:12:47.240 Well,
00:12:47.380 look at New York,
00:12:48.140 you know,
00:12:48.440 where that gentleman
00:12:49.740 unfortunately ended up
00:12:51.480 strangling that gentleman
00:12:52.520 who came and it was
00:12:54.280 a big controversy
00:12:55.220 he ended up getting off
00:12:56.140 but it's a terrible incident
00:12:57.900 but quite frankly,
00:12:58.940 he was mentally ill,
00:13:00.360 they struggled,
00:13:01.180 he actually had military training,
00:13:03.140 went to a chokehold
00:13:03.940 and ended up killing him,
00:13:05.180 right?
00:13:06.020 Because he overdid it,
00:13:07.100 he went,
00:13:07.400 you know,
00:13:07.560 he went too far
00:13:08.220 but you don't want
00:13:10.720 to be in those,
00:13:11.780 like,
00:13:12.020 you know,
00:13:12.200 you look at it,
00:13:12.900 again,
00:13:13.480 I'm sitting across
00:13:14.260 from a guy
00:13:14.560 with no pants,
00:13:15.500 you know?
00:13:16.580 Am I happy?
00:13:18.120 No,
00:13:18.440 I come from a generation
00:13:19.660 where quite frankly,
00:13:21.320 we would probably get
00:13:22.340 into a fight
00:13:22.820 with someone
00:13:23.200 who did that,
00:13:24.040 right?
00:13:24.800 Yes.
00:13:25.200 And,
00:13:25.460 you know,
00:13:25.820 you brought up
00:13:26.220 a good point
00:13:26.680 about people
00:13:27.120 not being from Canada
00:13:28.640 so I find it interesting
00:13:30.940 and this is a really
00:13:32.300 something I think
00:13:33.580 Canadians need to understand
00:13:35.840 who are born in Canada
00:13:37.220 and grew up in Canada.
00:13:38.920 People who are immigrating
00:13:40.140 to Canada,
00:13:40.820 a lot of them
00:13:41.380 come from countries
00:13:42.240 where a lot of this stuff
00:13:43.820 isn't acceptable.
00:13:45.160 So,
00:13:45.920 the reason they're not
00:13:46.800 taking the subway
00:13:47.760 is because they get
00:13:49.640 on the subway
00:13:50.160 and they see these things
00:13:51.380 and they're like,
00:13:52.680 okay,
00:13:52.980 my country wouldn't
00:13:53.800 accept that
00:13:54.380 so they're not going
00:13:55.060 to go back
00:13:55.440 to the subway.
00:13:56.160 They're going to do
00:13:56.780 whatever they can
00:13:57.680 and pay whatever
00:13:58.400 they need to pay
00:13:59.280 to get a car
00:14:00.400 to get insurance
00:14:02.300 which is
00:14:02.900 wildly over expensive
00:14:05.620 for new immigrants
00:14:07.040 who come to Canada
00:14:07.720 but you know what
00:14:08.620 the ones I know
00:14:09.640 or the people
00:14:10.120 that I interact with
00:14:11.140 they'll do it.
00:14:12.640 They'll do it
00:14:13.280 because quite frankly
00:14:14.060 they know
00:14:14.480 what a crap show
00:14:16.260 it is to get on there
00:14:18.200 and they're not used
00:14:19.440 to it.
00:14:19.740 They're not used
00:14:20.280 to, you know,
00:14:21.520 screaming,
00:14:22.460 yelling,
00:14:23.160 drugs,
00:14:24.100 guy with no pants,
00:14:25.420 the countries
00:14:25.920 they come from.
00:14:26.940 They would be tortured
00:14:28.360 or beaten
00:14:28.860 if they actually
00:14:29.960 did that
00:14:30.500 in a public forum.
00:14:31.740 So they're like,
00:14:32.680 I wouldn't,
00:14:33.640 people in my country
00:14:34.700 wouldn't be able
00:14:35.600 to do this
00:14:36.220 but in this country
00:14:37.420 they are
00:14:38.580 and they do it
00:14:39.160 on public transit
00:14:40.060 so they shy away
00:14:41.300 from it
00:14:41.640 and the numbers
00:14:42.940 after COVID
00:14:43.560 so I just wanted
00:14:44.160 to share the numbers
00:14:44.780 with you
00:14:45.000 because it's very interesting.
00:14:46.380 The numbers
00:14:47.000 after COVID
00:14:47.980 so the TTC,
00:14:50.140 we're going to talk
00:14:50.520 about the TTC
00:14:51.220 and then we're going
00:14:51.640 to talk about
00:14:52.040 Metrolinks for a minute.
00:14:53.140 I'm focusing on Toronto.
00:14:54.820 By the way,
00:14:55.340 this problem
00:14:56.000 when you look at it
00:14:56.920 crime-wise
00:14:57.540 is across
00:14:58.380 from Calgary
00:14:59.740 to Vancouver
00:15:01.720 to the transit system
00:15:05.020 in Nova Scotia,
00:15:06.220 New Brunswick,
00:15:07.280 you hear stories
00:15:08.680 all over, right?
00:15:09.820 Fighting,
00:15:11.180 stabbings,
00:15:12.020 shootings
00:15:12.440 on the transit systems,
00:15:14.160 right?
00:15:14.300 And more so,
00:15:15.900 I think the stats
00:15:16.780 coming out of,
00:15:17.620 we were looking at it
00:15:18.280 this morning,
00:15:19.120 the stats coming out
00:15:20.440 of COVID
00:15:20.840 have just grown,
00:15:21.840 grown,
00:15:22.180 grown
00:15:22.500 to a kind of
00:15:24.120 top level
00:15:25.260 at 2024.
00:15:27.160 It is starting
00:15:28.140 to kind of
00:15:28.860 stabilize a little
00:15:30.100 but it's actually
00:15:31.040 stabilized
00:15:31.660 at a high amount.
00:15:33.500 So the crime rates
00:15:34.440 on transit
00:15:35.480 have gone up,
00:15:36.360 up, up
00:15:36.840 and they've kind of leveled
00:15:37.980 but they're still high.
00:15:40.200 So,
00:15:41.720 you know,
00:15:42.100 I go back to the,
00:15:43.160 let's talk to TTC
00:15:44.060 for a minute
00:15:44.580 because that was
00:15:45.560 the announcement
00:15:46.020 the other day
00:15:46.600 with the mayor,
00:15:47.740 Mayor Chow.
00:15:49.240 You know,
00:15:49.600 they said,
00:15:50.040 well,
00:15:50.360 you know,
00:15:50.660 we're going to start
00:15:51.220 to put police back in.
00:15:52.500 We tried it after COVID.
00:15:53.620 We're going to go back to it.
00:15:55.260 The reason
00:15:56.040 or the rationale
00:15:56.800 is the ridership
00:15:59.000 is down.
00:16:00.980 So the annual report
00:16:02.320 came out.
00:16:03.000 The ridership
00:16:03.700 is down
00:16:04.120 118 million people.
00:16:07.020 So they lost
00:16:08.440 118 million people
00:16:10.400 from the high
00:16:11.960 of 2015.
00:16:13.720 So they basically,
00:16:14.940 you know,
00:16:15.260 the best year
00:16:16.040 they had for ridership
00:16:17.220 was 2015.
00:16:19.980 They were
00:16:21.060 growing,
00:16:22.200 growing,
00:16:22.600 growing
00:16:22.840 and then they
00:16:23.440 hit this
00:16:24.940 apex.
00:16:26.100 It stayed
00:16:26.600 pretty level
00:16:27.300 up until 19.
00:16:28.760 I think they did
00:16:29.480 525 million
00:16:31.700 rides
00:16:32.860 in 2019.
00:16:36.120 And then
00:16:36.960 we had COVID.
00:16:38.040 No one rode.
00:16:39.140 Remember,
00:16:39.460 they canceled buses,
00:16:40.440 whatever.
00:16:41.540 No one came back.
00:16:43.420 Very few people
00:16:44.480 came back.
00:16:45.680 So,
00:16:46.260 and what I mean
00:16:47.060 very few people,
00:16:48.720 you know,
00:16:49.040 they lost
00:16:49.540 118 million people.
00:16:51.900 So now,
00:16:52.660 the challenge,
00:16:53.300 so here's the challenge.
00:16:54.700 And I'm an accountant,
00:16:56.020 so I'll just
00:16:56.820 bore you with
00:16:57.560 some numbers,
00:16:58.340 right?
00:16:58.720 Here's the challenge.
00:17:01.180 You've
00:17:01.700 dumped
00:17:02.640 a lot of money
00:17:04.360 into the transit system.
00:17:05.500 So I went
00:17:06.460 and looked
00:17:06.920 last night.
00:17:07.620 I said,
00:17:07.860 okay,
00:17:08.220 my accountant's brain,
00:17:10.260 what is the capital
00:17:11.340 expenditure
00:17:11.900 life to date
00:17:12.920 on the Toronto
00:17:14.220 transit system?
00:17:15.480 3,000 vehicles
00:17:16.980 are in that system.
00:17:18.640 It has
00:17:19.680 8,600 employees
00:17:22.000 now,
00:17:22.700 but what,
00:17:23.660 how much did it spend
00:17:24.420 to build the infrastructure
00:17:25.540 for that?
00:17:26.720 And it's about
00:17:27.640 $24 billion.
00:17:29.960 So over the years,
00:17:31.120 we spent about
00:17:31.700 $24 billion.
00:17:32.800 The net value
00:17:33.520 of the remaining
00:17:34.240 after the depreciation
00:17:36.040 and the write-offs
00:17:36.680 is about
00:17:37.560 $13 billion.
00:17:40.120 So it's a lot
00:17:41.000 of money.
00:17:41.380 And over the years,
00:17:42.380 you know,
00:17:42.660 quite frankly,
00:17:43.560 we just kept
00:17:44.680 reinvesting.
00:17:45.520 So in 2015,
00:17:47.100 when we were
00:17:47.780 at our apex
00:17:48.720 of ridership,
00:17:50.240 we were only,
00:17:51.340 we had only spent
00:17:52.500 $15 billion
00:17:53.240 on the system.
00:17:54.420 We doubled down
00:17:55.660 from 15 to 2024.
00:17:57.840 We spent another
00:17:58.580 $9 billion.
00:18:01.080 You know,
00:18:01.540 this Finch West
00:18:05.100 track
00:18:06.400 that we just opened,
00:18:07.660 I think is
00:18:08.380 $2.5 billion,
00:18:09.820 the one that you run
00:18:10.820 faster than.
00:18:12.000 And so frankly,
00:18:13.500 so now
00:18:14.440 we're really in it.
00:18:17.100 Like we're in it.
00:18:17.780 We spent $24 billion
00:18:19.180 on transit.
00:18:20.440 We have,
00:18:20.780 you know,
00:18:22.200 webs going through
00:18:23.120 the city,
00:18:23.860 disconnected.
00:18:25.820 We have,
00:18:26.780 you know,
00:18:27.260 almost 9,000 employees.
00:18:29.320 It's a big entity.
00:18:32.280 But revenue's going down
00:18:34.280 because the ridership's
00:18:35.840 going down.
00:18:36.540 So it's down
00:18:38.240 around $200 million.
00:18:39.780 and the subsidization's
00:18:42.460 going up.
00:18:43.000 So if you look
00:18:43.920 at 2015,
00:18:45.580 the ridership paid
00:18:47.020 $1.2 billion
00:18:49.120 to ride it.
00:18:50.100 That's the revenue.
00:18:51.160 So the revenue
00:18:52.120 of the transit system
00:18:53.940 in Toronto
00:18:54.380 for the TTC.
00:18:56.800 In 2024,
00:18:58.340 it's dropped
00:18:58.820 to a billion.
00:19:00.120 So it's slightly
00:19:00.880 under a billion dollars.
00:19:01.940 25,
00:19:02.640 we're going to find out,
00:19:03.320 but it looks like
00:19:04.260 it's going down
00:19:05.120 because they're
00:19:05.840 panicking a little.
00:19:07.840 The subsidies,
00:19:09.620 so the,
00:19:10.100 your taxes,
00:19:11.940 my taxes,
00:19:12.520 all our taxes,
00:19:13.840 has gone from
00:19:14.760 $2.2 billion
00:19:16.600 in 2015
00:19:17.780 to $2.9
00:19:19.880 in 2024.
00:19:21.400 So the government's
00:19:24.540 highly subsidizing.
00:19:25.580 The subsidies
00:19:26.040 are going up.
00:19:26.620 As less money
00:19:27.600 is made
00:19:28.280 from ridership,
00:19:30.620 the subsidies
00:19:31.140 go up
00:19:31.960 to keep it alive
00:19:34.060 because you have
00:19:34.540 the operating costs.
00:19:36.220 You have to pay
00:19:37.140 all those people.
00:19:37.960 You have to service
00:19:38.940 that capital.
00:19:40.440 It's a never-ending,
00:19:42.420 we're like a little bit
00:19:43.920 of a mouse
00:19:44.460 on a treadmill
00:19:45.060 and we're running,
00:19:46.520 running, running,
00:19:47.060 but the problem is
00:19:48.060 we're going
00:19:49.280 in the wrong direction.
00:19:50.600 So what is
00:19:51.120 the spending?
00:19:52.580 Is this due to,
00:19:53.900 is everybody
00:19:54.760 just throwing money
00:19:55.200 into a pit?
00:19:55.760 Is this mismanagement
00:19:56.940 of this money?
00:19:59.760 You know,
00:20:00.060 for example,
00:20:00.580 the Eglinton LRT line.
00:20:03.480 I think they just
00:20:04.720 held a quinceañera
00:20:05.820 for the unopened
00:20:08.000 LRT line.
00:20:11.180 Is this just incompetence
00:20:12.800 or what's getting
00:20:14.680 in the way of this?
00:20:16.300 Well, you know,
00:20:16.780 it's a good question,
00:20:17.620 Nick.
00:20:17.780 You know,
00:20:17.980 I don't really know.
00:20:19.280 The one thing
00:20:20.160 I would say
00:20:20.840 is we're just
00:20:22.080 not good
00:20:22.820 at building transit.
00:20:24.740 We're not great
00:20:25.520 at roads
00:20:26.020 and we're not good
00:20:26.820 at building transit.
00:20:27.700 So we've kind of,
00:20:28.540 I think we can keep
00:20:29.480 trying to build
00:20:30.300 transit lines
00:20:31.440 and systems
00:20:32.020 and everything else,
00:20:32.980 but at some point
00:20:33.780 we've got to say,
00:20:34.620 time out.
00:20:35.580 There's some things
00:20:36.500 we need to go
00:20:37.280 to other countries for
00:20:38.520 and we need
00:20:39.320 to bring some people in.
00:20:41.040 Right?
00:20:41.620 And, you know,
00:20:42.280 we were talking
00:20:43.340 about it before.
00:20:44.080 Yes.
00:20:44.340 What are some of the,
00:20:45.200 like some of the other
00:20:45.920 countries have really
00:20:46.860 great transit systems,
00:20:48.460 right?
00:20:48.760 Like, you know,
00:20:50.300 Tokyo,
00:20:51.720 great transit systems.
00:20:53.300 Netherlands.
00:20:53.860 Netherlands,
00:20:54.540 great transit systems.
00:20:55.620 Like, why do those work
00:20:56.980 and why do ours not work?
00:20:58.860 I think a big problem
00:21:02.240 that complicates
00:21:03.360 all of this
00:21:03.800 is that the infrastructure
00:21:04.720 in Canada
00:21:06.780 and North America
00:21:07.860 in general
00:21:08.440 is a lot different
00:21:09.060 from, say, Japan
00:21:10.540 or the Netherlands.
00:21:12.060 Oh, big thing.
00:21:12.440 How they set up the roads,
00:21:13.740 how the zoning,
00:21:14.920 things like this.
00:21:15.460 So they're already
00:21:15.940 working with a system
00:21:17.280 that's probably
00:21:18.860 more transit friendly
00:21:20.180 versus North America
00:21:23.280 where a lot of,
00:21:24.000 a lot of our urban planning
00:21:25.460 is just car centric.
00:21:28.120 Yes.
00:21:28.220 So we're working
00:21:28.740 around something
00:21:29.700 that's car centric
00:21:30.580 that's ultimately,
00:21:33.100 and I think that's
00:21:33.680 what's slowing down
00:21:34.420 this, your track there
00:21:36.500 is crossings.
00:21:38.840 I think there's red lights
00:21:39.740 or something like that
00:21:40.180 or the trains
00:21:42.300 don't get priority.
00:21:44.000 Things like this.
00:21:45.380 And yeah,
00:21:46.560 so I think
00:21:47.240 that's a big complication now.
00:21:48.980 I think it's still,
00:21:50.240 you know,
00:21:50.400 even if we are starting
00:21:52.060 in a different spot,
00:21:53.160 I think it's really worthwhile
00:21:55.060 to take a look
00:21:55.560 at these countries.
00:21:57.020 Certainly not in,
00:21:58.220 I can't think
00:21:58.880 of a good system
00:21:59.480 that exists in the U.S.
00:22:00.820 or Canada.
00:22:02.000 Maybe Montreal
00:22:02.660 would be the,
00:22:03.340 are the most shining example
00:22:04.580 in North America.
00:22:05.640 Well, you know,
00:22:06.300 it's interesting
00:22:06.920 because the U.S.,
00:22:07.700 and Christophe,
00:22:08.440 you know this
00:22:08.900 from New York, right?
00:22:09.940 Yes.
00:22:10.220 people left it.
00:22:11.900 Yes.
00:22:12.580 Chicago, people left it.
00:22:15.840 They, right now,
00:22:17.200 because of the crime
00:22:18.060 and the undependability
00:22:21.460 of the systems,
00:22:22.700 the people abandoned
00:22:23.820 the transit systems.
00:22:25.200 So they keep them
00:22:26.300 because they keep them
00:22:27.140 because major cities
00:22:28.440 usually have them.
00:22:30.180 But people don't ride them.
00:22:31.880 They just,
00:22:32.420 and I think they've tried
00:22:34.160 in New York recently again
00:22:37.080 to put a full police force.
00:22:40.100 And, you know,
00:22:40.900 you did some stats
00:22:41.720 about where,
00:22:42.460 so why don't you talk
00:22:43.780 a little bit about
00:22:44.420 where they use full police forces
00:22:46.500 in subway systems?
00:22:47.940 Yes.
00:22:48.220 So New York City,
00:22:50.300 their MTA system,
00:22:52.080 they adopted
00:22:53.400 a high police visibility
00:22:55.560 and a little bit of,
00:22:57.980 like, a homelessness outreach.
00:23:00.100 But they have
00:23:00.580 1,000 NYPD officers
00:23:02.600 deployed during peak hours.
00:23:05.540 Wow.
00:23:06.140 So 1,000.
00:23:07.280 Wow, 1,000.
00:23:08.400 And you do see it
00:23:09.500 when you're there, by the way.
00:23:10.460 When I do go in and out
00:23:11.700 in New York,
00:23:12.580 I do, and I do ride the subway
00:23:14.800 during the day,
00:23:15.660 not at night,
00:23:16.300 but I do see
00:23:17.260 a lot of police presence.
00:23:18.340 Like, at each of the stops,
00:23:19.660 when you get out,
00:23:20.400 when you go in,
00:23:21.420 there's a police,
00:23:22.060 right when you pay,
00:23:23.280 there's a police officer there
00:23:24.940 or two.
00:23:25.820 There's always people there.
00:23:27.120 And they even delegate
00:23:28.780 a bit of the force
00:23:30.000 to target sweeps
00:23:31.980 for weapons
00:23:32.620 and also fare evasion.
00:23:34.560 Oh, which is good.
00:23:35.640 Well, that's the one thing
00:23:36.440 I do notice,
00:23:37.180 fare evasion,
00:23:38.280 like, huge issue now.
00:23:40.280 I have a story
00:23:40.840 of fare evasion.
00:23:42.300 This is probably 2017
00:23:43.780 or something like that.
00:23:45.520 Was it the,
00:23:46.100 it was the Dundas station,
00:23:49.520 I believe.
00:23:52.480 Was going in,
00:23:53.660 a guy comes,
00:23:54.900 just basically skips
00:23:55.960 the queue
00:23:57.580 to not pay.
00:23:59.000 Transit police
00:24:00.620 stop him.
00:24:01.460 Hey,
00:24:02.020 the guy just balls his fist
00:24:03.260 at the guy
00:24:03.760 and the guy,
00:24:04.500 and the transit police
00:24:05.700 just goes.
00:24:06.760 And other riders
00:24:08.260 looked at the police
00:24:09.060 going, like,
00:24:09.780 what are you doing?
00:24:11.260 And he said,
00:24:12.080 like,
00:24:12.180 I can't stop that guy.
00:24:13.240 And I believe him.
00:24:14.520 He said,
00:24:14.840 like,
00:24:14.960 I can't,
00:24:15.800 I can't stop a guy
00:24:16.820 who's just going to
00:24:17.600 physically bite me,
00:24:19.220 you know?
00:24:19.840 So that's,
00:24:20.340 that's the thing.
00:24:20.920 Like,
00:24:21.060 it's,
00:24:21.440 I wouldn't want to be,
00:24:22.440 I wouldn't want to be
00:24:23.000 that guy's job.
00:24:23.820 I'm not,
00:24:24.080 I'm not talking trash
00:24:25.240 about him,
00:24:25.580 but it's just,
00:24:26.040 you can't,
00:24:26.880 you know,
00:24:27.300 you can't be,
00:24:28.340 he's probably dealing
00:24:28.860 with people like this
00:24:29.360 every day.
00:24:29.960 He can't be getting
00:24:30.600 to fist fights
00:24:31.320 with people
00:24:32.500 every day.
00:24:33.620 You know,
00:24:34.380 lunatic,
00:24:34.940 you know,
00:24:35.080 people who,
00:24:35.640 you know,
00:24:35.960 who could be
00:24:36.640 carrying a weapon,
00:24:37.300 could be whatever,
00:24:38.280 you know,
00:24:38.440 they're just going
00:24:38.840 to go,
00:24:39.220 okay,
00:24:39.920 go,
00:24:40.500 go ahead,
00:24:40.980 I guess.
00:24:41.720 But yeah,
00:24:42.380 no,
00:24:42.620 no,
00:24:42.760 and I'm with you.
00:24:43.340 And other,
00:24:43.840 other places
00:24:44.940 have actually deployed,
00:24:46.300 actually in-house
00:24:47.800 police systems
00:24:49.340 in their.
00:24:50.480 Yes.
00:24:51.040 Yeah.
00:24:51.560 And versus Toronto,
00:24:52.940 which is more focused
00:24:55.260 on a non-police
00:24:57.260 crisis workers.
00:24:59.060 So it's like
00:25:00.840 versus New York,
00:25:02.160 which is the police first.
00:25:03.540 So here we have
00:25:05.220 the police
00:25:06.720 or people
00:25:07.080 that we're putting
00:25:07.640 in there
00:25:08.000 are targeting more
00:25:09.120 along like
00:25:09.980 the mental health
00:25:11.180 or violence.
00:25:13.600 So it's a little bit
00:25:15.180 of a different intention
00:25:16.400 and even in the
00:25:17.600 officer presence.
00:25:18.600 So you get an
00:25:19.140 intervention here.
00:25:20.140 Intervention here,
00:25:21.000 not protection.
00:25:22.760 All your family members,
00:25:23.860 they come down
00:25:24.360 to the transit,
00:25:25.180 we sit around
00:25:25.760 doing an intervention.
00:25:26.800 Yes.
00:25:27.280 No.
00:25:27.440 The state's
00:25:29.260 a little different.
00:25:30.160 Yeah.
00:25:31.220 Yeah.
00:25:31.660 And, you know,
00:25:32.180 that's, you know,
00:25:33.180 the challenge.
00:25:34.220 We're kind of at that,
00:25:35.160 you know,
00:25:35.520 people say,
00:25:36.240 well, that's that
00:25:36.880 we don't want
00:25:37.660 more police officers
00:25:38.720 in the subway system.
00:25:40.040 We, you know,
00:25:40.360 we can't afford that either.
00:25:41.740 But we're kind of
00:25:42.740 at that crossroads now.
00:25:44.000 We really are.
00:25:44.760 All pun aside,
00:25:46.920 we've spent
00:25:48.160 all this money.
00:25:49.140 We have all
00:25:50.140 this infrastructure
00:25:50.900 in play.
00:25:51.460 We're bringing people
00:25:53.580 and we're creating
00:25:54.720 new zoning
00:25:55.560 that doesn't account
00:25:56.820 for parking.
00:25:57.860 So, like,
00:25:59.780 we're pregnant.
00:26:01.760 Yeah.
00:26:02.120 Right?
00:26:02.460 We're there.
00:26:03.060 We're basically,
00:26:04.100 we got to figure out
00:26:04.800 what we're going to do now
00:26:05.620 because we can't go
00:26:07.560 and I love these
00:26:08.920 kind of discussions
00:26:09.800 where people get on the TV
00:26:11.100 and they say,
00:26:11.600 we should build new highways
00:26:13.160 and we should do this
00:26:14.320 and we should do that.
00:26:15.420 Great.
00:26:15.900 Got it.
00:26:16.480 Right?
00:26:18.620 What are you going to do
00:26:19.400 with your transit system?
00:26:20.360 Hmm.
00:26:21.500 Because you've got
00:26:21.900 to figure that out first
00:26:22.860 because that's your,
00:26:23.840 you've already sunk
00:26:24.680 all this money into it.
00:26:26.140 We don't own,
00:26:27.140 unfortunately,
00:26:27.980 we don't own
00:26:28.780 our toll highway.
00:26:30.080 Yeah.
00:26:30.300 You know,
00:26:30.620 a lot of our highways,
00:26:31.880 you know,
00:26:32.220 we don't own
00:26:32.800 throughout Canada
00:26:34.680 and quite frankly,
00:26:36.040 we struggle
00:26:36.660 because of that
00:26:37.840 but we have to
00:26:39.280 kind of make that decision
00:26:40.240 from a planning perspective.
00:26:41.900 Are we going to go
00:26:42.960 deeper into
00:26:44.020 the transit system?
00:26:45.820 You know,
00:26:46.100 Metrolinx,
00:26:46.660 by the way,
00:26:47.020 I took a look at Metro,
00:26:47.880 I was curious
00:26:48.480 because Metrolinx,
00:26:49.440 you know,
00:26:49.640 Go Trains,
00:26:50.200 all that good stuff.
00:26:52.140 I was a little bit shocked.
00:26:53.560 I was,
00:26:53.960 I was kind of astounded.
00:26:55.480 So,
00:26:56.000 72 million riders.
00:26:59.820 So,
00:27:00.360 not as many
00:27:01.200 as I thought.
00:27:02.980 You know,
00:27:03.660 a little more costly,
00:27:04.660 of course,
00:27:05.040 to ride,
00:27:05.580 right?
00:27:05.800 So,
00:27:06.600 it has a revenue
00:27:08.960 about 800 million bucks.
00:27:11.820 It's subsidized
00:27:12.920 1.3 million
00:27:14.200 or billion,
00:27:15.600 sorry,
00:27:16.060 billion.
00:27:17.720 And it has
00:27:19.600 roughly capital expenditure
00:27:22.000 to date
00:27:22.640 of about
00:27:23.640 60 billion dollars.
00:27:25.740 Where's Metrolinx?
00:27:27.480 Metrolinx is your Go Trains.
00:27:29.180 It's all your,
00:27:29.820 yeah.
00:27:30.180 So,
00:27:31.160 so,
00:27:31.540 you know,
00:27:32.040 so if you look at it,
00:27:33.340 like just a loan
00:27:34.120 in Toronto,
00:27:35.500 we subsidized
00:27:37.040 those two entities
00:27:37.920 to the tune
00:27:38.680 of 4.2 billion dollars
00:27:41.160 a year.
00:27:43.620 And we're in,
00:27:44.740 in the hole right now,
00:27:45.780 we've spent
00:27:46.400 over 80 billion dollars
00:27:48.380 on transit.
00:27:49.300 Yes.
00:27:50.040 It's still not working
00:27:51.260 efficiently
00:27:51.760 and the ridership
00:27:52.920 is going in the wrong direction.
00:27:54.440 Going down.
00:27:54.720 You see,
00:27:55.640 my personal opinion
00:27:57.220 is that we do have
00:27:58.200 to spend our way
00:27:58.880 out of this.
00:27:59.440 Now,
00:27:59.560 I'm not saying
00:28:00.100 we carry on
00:28:00.860 as we've been doing.
00:28:02.100 Obviously,
00:28:02.480 there's,
00:28:02.680 there's,
00:28:03.080 there's mismanagement here.
00:28:06.400 But,
00:28:07.100 at the same time,
00:28:08.500 we,
00:28:08.720 we can't have
00:28:10.140 more people
00:28:10.740 getting into cars.
00:28:11.600 We cannot widen
00:28:12.180 the highways enough
00:28:12.940 to,
00:28:13.240 to fit all these cars.
00:28:14.320 We're not going
00:28:14.940 to be building
00:28:15.320 a tunnel underneath
00:28:16.380 the 401.
00:28:17.480 That's ridiculous.
00:28:19.600 You know,
00:28:20.200 if,
00:28:20.640 if this quarter
00:28:21.400 of people,
00:28:22.400 I think you were
00:28:23.320 saying before that
00:28:23.860 it's a quarter
00:28:24.680 of Torontonians
00:28:25.480 are,
00:28:25.820 are taking transit.
00:28:27.700 Yeah,
00:28:27.860 if you do the,
00:28:28.500 if you kind of do
00:28:29.260 the fair math on it,
00:28:30.440 it works out to about,
00:28:32.020 and assuming,
00:28:33.340 say,
00:28:33.640 people who travel
00:28:34.500 on the,
00:28:35.480 the buses,
00:28:36.600 subways,
00:28:37.600 it's roughly
00:28:38.220 about 2 million people.
00:28:39.720 Yeah.
00:28:40.280 Take the transit,
00:28:41.540 you know,
00:28:41.980 which is.
00:28:42.580 That's still
00:28:42.880 a significant amount.
00:28:43.860 It's a significant amount,
00:28:45.240 right?
00:28:45.600 Yeah.
00:28:45.860 But it's going down.
00:28:47.240 Yes.
00:28:47.880 So,
00:28:48.340 you know,
00:28:48.560 and those people
00:28:48.940 are getting cars
00:28:49.560 or,
00:28:49.960 I don't know,
00:28:50.340 not going to work.
00:28:51.000 I don't know.
00:28:52.560 And they're aging.
00:28:53.620 We have an aging pocket.
00:28:54.560 We have a,
00:28:57.900 you know,
00:28:58.360 our immigration
00:28:59.400 is replacing
00:29:00.100 kind of our baby boomers
00:29:01.340 who are leaving our cities.
00:29:03.100 So,
00:29:04.160 the new immigrants
00:29:05.100 are coming,
00:29:05.580 don't have,
00:29:06.200 a lot of them
00:29:06.780 don't have any interest
00:29:08.140 of ever seeing our transit.
00:29:09.860 Mm-hmm.
00:29:10.780 Mm-hmm.
00:29:11.240 It's true.
00:29:11.640 Yeah.
00:29:12.380 But they should.
00:29:13.320 I mean,
00:29:13.620 I've lived in a city
00:29:14.980 with real transit system
00:29:16.940 and it's wonderful
00:29:17.660 and I wouldn't want to drive,
00:29:20.040 you know,
00:29:20.300 if there was a decent system
00:29:21.580 where I could go on,
00:29:23.000 hop on,
00:29:23.540 get to where I'm going
00:29:24.300 in a relatively,
00:29:25.700 not even as fast as a car,
00:29:27.040 even if it's a bit slower,
00:29:29.600 but still reliable.
00:29:30.460 That would be fine
00:29:31.520 and I think a lot of people
00:29:32.300 would be fine with that.
00:29:34.060 It's,
00:29:34.600 you know,
00:29:35.080 this,
00:29:35.720 but we cannot,
00:29:37.020 we cannot deal with
00:29:38.300 our,
00:29:39.540 the,
00:29:40.000 the crisis we have
00:29:41.600 in Toronto
00:29:42.260 and other cities
00:29:43.140 with,
00:29:43.560 with traffic
00:29:44.580 just through getting more cars.
00:29:46.980 Like,
00:29:47.280 we have to move people
00:29:48.560 en masse somehow
00:29:49.600 and I,
00:29:51.760 I don't know.
00:29:52.920 I,
00:29:53.080 I wish I knew,
00:29:54.220 I wish I understood.
00:29:54.980 I,
00:29:55.100 I actually wanted to do
00:29:56.060 a deep dive on Eglinton LRT
00:29:57.620 and like what the hell's going on.
00:29:59.940 Maybe we should,
00:30:00.880 I don't know.
00:30:01.360 But,
00:30:01.660 yeah,
00:30:03.400 I mean,
00:30:03.920 what,
00:30:04.200 what is this?
00:30:04.680 Is it,
00:30:05.160 this is why I'm asking like,
00:30:06.340 is this mismanagement?
00:30:07.220 Is this just,
00:30:07.820 we need to spend more money?
00:30:08.660 What is it?
00:30:09.220 Because obviously
00:30:09.740 we can't just abandon this.
00:30:11.340 Well,
00:30:11.480 that was quite frankly,
00:30:12.600 because that's,
00:30:13.340 that's a,
00:30:13.960 you know,
00:30:14.440 years over budget,
00:30:15.680 a billion dollars,
00:30:16.800 or years behind,
00:30:18.960 a billion dollars over budget,
00:30:20.560 still no date of opening.
00:30:22.560 That,
00:30:23.040 that was a contract
00:30:23.980 that just got awarded
00:30:25.240 that didn't get managed well
00:30:27.420 and we're paying the price for.
00:30:29.040 All the store owners,
00:30:30.520 all the developments
00:30:31.560 along Eglinton,
00:30:32.760 I know,
00:30:33.480 because I'm out in Scarborough
00:30:35.060 quite a bit.
00:30:35.740 I see it's a mess that,
00:30:37.420 you know,
00:30:37.680 they're still practicing
00:30:39.040 driving the streetcars.
00:30:42.700 They're still trying to get
00:30:43.440 the cars working properly.
00:30:45.600 And they've had the cars so long.
00:30:47.340 They've had them for,
00:30:48.300 I think,
00:30:48.560 a decade now.
00:30:50.000 They've basically,
00:30:51.040 they're obsolete,
00:30:51.940 so they can't get parts
00:30:52.840 for them now.
00:30:53.420 So they never got it open
00:30:54.380 in the time frame
00:30:55.200 that they needed to,
00:30:56.500 which created a real mess.
00:30:58.040 So yeah,
00:30:59.020 that one,
00:30:59.520 that one's just,
00:31:00.260 but again,
00:31:01.480 you know,
00:31:01.920 you got to do the things.
00:31:03.020 Here's the,
00:31:03.560 here's what I think
00:31:04.500 as Canadians,
00:31:05.740 we have to do
00:31:06.620 a little,
00:31:07.380 a lot better on.
00:31:08.340 We have to focus
00:31:09.240 on what we do really well
00:31:10.540 and acknowledge
00:31:11.800 what we don't do well.
00:31:13.840 You know,
00:31:14.160 I thought about doing a show,
00:31:15.460 I think I mentioned
00:31:16.080 to Nick one day
00:31:16.960 and Christophe,
00:31:17.860 I thought about doing a show
00:31:19.140 of 12 things Canadians
00:31:20.480 should never build.
00:31:21.780 right?
00:31:24.120 Yeah,
00:31:24.380 you know,
00:31:24.660 no,
00:31:25.000 I'm not kidding,
00:31:25.540 but we should really,
00:31:26.980 we should talk about it.
00:31:28.280 Like,
00:31:28.520 and maybe transit
00:31:30.180 is just something
00:31:31.220 we shouldn't do
00:31:31.960 and maybe
00:31:32.600 master planning
00:31:34.400 of our transit,
00:31:35.340 we need to bring
00:31:36.460 some new people
00:31:37.440 into play
00:31:38.220 because we seem
00:31:39.500 to be struggling with it.
00:31:40.460 We seem to be struggling
00:31:41.220 with major roads.
00:31:42.440 We're struggling.
00:31:43.580 So when that happens
00:31:45.020 in any business,
00:31:46.180 when you think
00:31:46.980 your business plan
00:31:47.740 isn't working
00:31:48.340 or your strategies
00:31:50.060 aren't working,
00:31:50.740 you need to expand
00:31:52.480 your web of people
00:31:53.480 to get smarter people,
00:31:54.700 different people,
00:31:55.660 different point of views.
00:31:57.320 On transit,
00:31:58.340 I really do think
00:31:59.180 we need help right now.
00:32:00.400 I think we're in dire straits.
00:32:02.640 My recommendation right now
00:32:04.140 would be to stop.
00:32:05.640 So if I had to say now,
00:32:07.380 like,
00:32:08.160 don't spend any more money,
00:32:10.260 try to get your operating costs
00:32:12.080 because right now,
00:32:13.200 you know,
00:32:13.940 in Toronto,
00:32:14.720 I'm just using it,
00:32:15.580 the Toronto transit.
00:32:17.540 Again,
00:32:18.260 you know,
00:32:18.640 2015 being their peak,
00:32:21.100 their costs
00:32:21.920 were about $2 billion.
00:32:23.200 They're now at $3.2 billion.
00:32:25.260 So, you know,
00:32:25.840 they're in 2024.
00:32:27.940 So their costs
00:32:28.800 have escalated
00:32:29.520 substantially over 50%.
00:32:31.200 So they've kind of
00:32:33.300 lost track of that,
00:32:34.780 but their ridership
00:32:35.700 has gone down.
00:32:36.440 So, you know,
00:32:37.320 in any business,
00:32:38.120 when your volume goes down,
00:32:39.900 your costs should not go up.
00:32:41.380 So, you know,
00:32:42.360 they should be kind of
00:32:43.680 going together,
00:32:44.460 not inverse, right?
00:32:45.660 So the problem is
00:32:47.560 we're struggling with that.
00:32:49.920 So it's a deep dive into it
00:32:51.840 to say,
00:32:52.320 okay,
00:32:53.020 how do we get this back on track?
00:32:54.660 What do we do?
00:32:55.820 And,
00:32:56.360 you know,
00:32:57.840 it's interesting
00:32:58.340 because we keep
00:32:59.560 crime
00:33:00.720 and transit
00:33:01.840 in different categories.
00:33:03.500 So the,
00:33:04.140 you know,
00:33:04.380 the police chief
00:33:05.000 is doing an awesome job
00:33:06.220 here in Toronto.
00:33:08.100 He's sitting there
00:33:08.940 and he's saying,
00:33:09.520 here's,
00:33:09.960 you know,
00:33:10.280 what I'm going to use
00:33:11.140 out of my budget to help.
00:33:13.320 And the transit guy is saying,
00:33:15.000 you know,
00:33:15.180 I need this.
00:33:16.420 But maybe we're at the point
00:33:18.080 where transit guys
00:33:20.400 have their own
00:33:21.220 police force
00:33:23.040 to get credibility
00:33:24.000 back in the system.
00:33:25.640 I'd like to look at it.
00:33:26.940 I think what we need to do now
00:33:28.380 is we need to go back,
00:33:30.080 get some brighter minds
00:33:31.180 into the mix here
00:33:32.800 and start to tell us,
00:33:34.340 like,
00:33:34.620 what we're doing wrong,
00:33:36.000 whether it's the contracts
00:33:37.320 we're signing,
00:33:38.500 the,
00:33:39.820 you know,
00:33:40.280 what agreements
00:33:41.040 we have with people.
00:33:42.620 Something's not working here
00:33:43.840 because it just doesn't work.
00:33:46.440 No.
00:33:46.900 Yeah.
00:33:47.880 Oh,
00:33:48.160 yeah,
00:33:48.580 we definitely need to stop the bleed.
00:33:49.880 I would agree with you on that
00:33:50.900 in regards to,
00:33:52.580 like,
00:33:52.680 where is this mismanagement?
00:33:53.960 Because obviously there is.
00:33:56.020 Yeah.
00:33:56.800 And also,
00:33:57.880 it kind of seems to be
00:33:59.640 a reoccurring narrative,
00:34:02.020 not only,
00:34:02.740 like,
00:34:03.180 in the city,
00:34:03.820 but if you think back
00:34:05.020 to the urban planning
00:34:06.820 for even,
00:34:07.780 like,
00:34:07.900 where our highways went
00:34:09.200 or the major,
00:34:09.920 like,
00:34:10.260 veins or intersections
00:34:11.340 in regards to,
00:34:12.820 like,
00:34:13.540 historical properties
00:34:14.680 that couldn't be touched.
00:34:15.980 So it's like,
00:34:16.860 houses were kept
00:34:17.640 in certain major areas
00:34:19.140 which caused
00:34:19.960 the highways to go
00:34:21.080 a different
00:34:22.680 or not the ideal way,
00:34:24.320 which has led
00:34:25.100 to a lot of traffic today.
00:34:26.220 So same thing with the planning
00:34:28.840 for the subway systems.
00:34:31.000 It was,
00:34:31.300 it's kind of,
00:34:32.180 okay,
00:34:32.320 now we want to build this city.
00:34:34.160 We got a lot of people.
00:34:35.500 Okay,
00:34:35.640 now we got to think
00:34:36.360 about the subway.
00:34:37.520 Now we got to,
00:34:38.400 you know,
00:34:38.680 start to,
00:34:39.560 again,
00:34:39.820 a reactive approach
00:34:42.720 versus a preventative
00:34:44.060 or planning approach.
00:34:45.340 Right.
00:34:45.600 And then taking on,
00:34:47.000 even on your point,
00:34:47.820 Vancouver,
00:34:48.600 they have
00:34:49.460 their own police force
00:34:51.080 in their transit system,
00:34:52.360 which is unique to Canada.
00:34:54.040 So just tying to that
00:34:55.860 and then
00:34:56.500 maybe that's a lesson
00:34:57.620 we need to learn.
00:34:58.820 Yeah.
00:34:59.220 Yeah.
00:34:59.380 Is Vancouver doing well
00:35:00.620 in regards to their
00:35:01.860 crime rates?
00:35:04.600 And from what I read,
00:35:06.200 it's not,
00:35:06.620 it's not great.
00:35:07.540 It's not,
00:35:07.840 maybe not particularly
00:35:08.840 as bad as Toronto,
00:35:09.940 but yeah.
00:35:10.400 Yeah.
00:35:10.880 I think it's,
00:35:11.380 they're all high.
00:35:12.280 They're all across.
00:35:13.040 When we looked at the graph
00:35:13.700 of all those cities,
00:35:15.060 the transit crime
00:35:16.160 is that it's,
00:35:17.340 I don't think there was one
00:35:18.600 that had a low score.
00:35:21.700 So they were all up in the,
00:35:23.280 they had all gone up
00:35:24.240 after COVID
00:35:24.880 and flattened off,
00:35:25.820 but they were pretty much,
00:35:27.220 when you looked at the lines,
00:35:28.300 they all went the same way.
00:35:29.620 So it is a challenge
00:35:31.420 and I think we're seeing it
00:35:32.800 the last week,
00:35:34.700 you know,
00:35:35.060 we've seen a reaction
00:35:36.380 to what's going on.
00:35:39.000 What people need
00:35:39.640 to understand is,
00:35:41.400 and I bring this up
00:35:42.220 on every show,
00:35:44.320 we weren't paying attention
00:35:45.720 before because I think
00:35:46.720 we were all like,
00:35:47.380 okay, transit is just
00:35:48.340 something that's in our life.
00:35:49.560 It's happening.
00:35:50.760 It's subsidized
00:35:51.720 from the government.
00:35:53.420 When we came to this
00:35:54.660 challenge financially
00:35:55.600 for the country
00:35:56.340 and we were all starting
00:35:57.360 to look at it
00:35:57.980 and we're like,
00:35:58.680 we don't have any more money.
00:36:00.540 So now it's,
00:36:01.880 it's one of those things
00:36:02.660 like your own personal budget.
00:36:03.760 When you run out of money,
00:36:04.820 you have to find places
00:36:06.080 to cut,
00:36:07.160 compensate,
00:36:07.460 and move.
00:36:08.340 Transit is one of those.
00:36:10.240 And so the decision now,
00:36:12.340 it's actually a shame
00:36:13.180 because we could have
00:36:13.900 master planned that decision
00:36:15.240 to be a success
00:36:16.220 10 years ago,
00:36:17.440 but we're now at that point
00:36:18.980 where we're going to have
00:36:20.660 to cut,
00:36:21.360 move,
00:36:21.740 and alter some things
00:36:23.000 if we really are serious
00:36:24.880 about transit.
00:36:25.560 If we're not serious
00:36:26.500 about transit
00:36:27.160 and we think,
00:36:28.240 you know,
00:36:29.140 we've reached its potential
00:36:32.100 in the city,
00:36:33.040 then it's time
00:36:34.200 to start a cost-cutting measure
00:36:35.880 to go look at transit
00:36:37.480 and try to bring it back
00:36:38.600 under control
00:36:39.280 a little and say,
00:36:40.500 you know,
00:36:40.920 we're only going to have
00:36:41.940 this level of transit
00:36:43.120 given our ridership
00:36:44.660 is expected to go down
00:36:45.820 over the next 10 years.
00:36:48.160 Yes.
00:36:48.960 So,
00:36:49.940 you know,
00:36:50.480 I know all of you,
00:36:52.440 you know,
00:36:52.820 you have an opinion on this.
00:36:54.240 I saw lots of articles
00:36:55.940 over the last week,
00:36:57.020 so please comment,
00:36:59.740 subscribe,
00:37:00.620 let us know your thoughts.
00:37:02.220 We're going to do
00:37:02.880 a follow-up show on this.
00:37:04.080 We have some people
00:37:04.700 coming in
00:37:05.300 closer to the issue
00:37:07.080 from the city perspective,
00:37:08.960 and we look forward
00:37:11.100 to sharing that with you
00:37:12.100 in the upcoming few shows.