True Patriot Love - December 11, 2025


Canada’s Transit Crisis： Crime, Chaos & Costs


Episode Stats


Length

37 minutes

Words per minute

169.25887

Word count

6,301

Sentence count

431

Harmful content

Toxicity

19

sentences flagged

Hate speech

4

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

A man was stabbed on a subway train in Toronto, and police have increased the number of officers on the streets. What does this mean for our transit system? Is it safe to ride the subway? And how much money should we be spending on transit? In this episode, Nick and Christophe discuss all of that and much more.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Today on True Patriot Love, we're going to talk crime in our transit system.
00:00:05.300 Nick Dolinsky and Christophe Smith are going to join me,
00:00:08.120 and we're going to dig into what's happening and why across Canada,
00:00:13.160 focusing on some of the announcements that happened over the last week,
00:00:17.380 increasing police presence in our subways,
00:00:20.960 figuring out why people can run faster than our newly developed transit systems.
00:00:26.060 These are all the things we're going to talk about,
00:00:27.900 and also dig into the financial impacts of transit
00:00:32.300 and our transit failures across the nation.
00:00:39.400 Moments of chaos and terror in the Toronto subway.
00:00:45.720 A violent scuffle in the fast-moving train.
00:00:49.360 This video posted to social media appears to capture a stabbing.
00:00:53.540 As one man chases another down the aisle,
00:00:56.120 people push their way up the train amid cries for help.
00:01:00.520 A stampede of panicked commuters.
00:01:05.460 They say a man in his 30s was taken to hospital in life-threatening condition,
00:01:10.600 but is now stable.
00:01:11.960 The suspect is still at large.
00:01:14.100 The motive? Unclear.
00:01:16.000 Toronto's newly minted mayor-elect didn't have all the details on the incident,
00:01:20.340 but says the Toronto Transit Commission is taking action to improve security.
00:01:25.700 They have private security guards.
00:01:30.960 In a statement on Twitter, the TTC said,
00:01:33.280 our thoughts are with the victim,
00:01:35.300 and noted its investment in additional safety and security initiatives.
00:01:38.740 Outside of the subway station, confusion.
00:01:43.140 Commuters in Toronto have been shaken by multiple violent incidents
00:01:47.120 on buses, streetcars, and the subway over the last few years.
00:01:51.380 There have been assaults, stabbings.
00:01:53.740 People have been shoved into the train tracks, even set on fire.
00:01:56.880 In the last year, it has been very iffy and very dangerous, I think.
00:02:02.100 I try not to take TTC towards the night,
00:02:04.220 so I try to schedule my days in a way that I actually finish my work on campus
00:02:08.380 and leave as soon as I possibly can.
00:02:11.840 Today on True Patriot Love, Under the Pillar Crime,
00:02:15.120 we're going to talk about Canada's transit conundrum.
00:02:18.840 And this week, we've seen a lot of that
00:02:22.180 as we've gone through several crimes across Canada on our transit system.
00:02:27.180 And today, I'm lucky enough to have Nick Dolinsky and Christophe Smith joining me.
00:02:32.800 Welcome, guys.
00:02:34.320 So, you know, I wanted really...
00:02:36.160 Christophe, you ride the subway in Toronto every day,
00:02:39.360 so I really wanted you to be here on the show.
00:02:41.120 And Nick, you had lots of opinions when the show came up about sort of...
00:02:44.560 I gave up on riding the transit a few years ago.
00:02:47.540 Yeah.
00:02:47.640 So, you know, the last week, and it's been a crazy week politically
00:02:52.980 and everything going on,
00:02:54.740 but we've seen a number of incidences on transit across Canada.
00:02:59.740 The craziest one, I think, that I saw on the weekend
00:03:02.140 was the transit employee stabbing one of the customers.
00:03:07.920 So it was a really odd story.
00:03:09.980 It broke out that there was a stabbing at one of the stations.
00:03:12.840 I won't bring up the station.
00:03:13.880 A stabbing on the station, and they had arrested the person
00:03:17.980 who had stabbed, had been stabbed.
00:03:21.480 Okay.
00:03:22.800 And because they were in the altercation.
00:03:25.020 And then hours later, it came back that the actual transit employee
00:03:29.580 had stabbed them outside of the subway station.
00:03:33.560 Okay.
00:03:34.260 So this was a new one for me.
00:03:35.500 So I'm like, what the heck is going on?
00:03:38.080 And that was kind of on the heels of the announcement
00:03:41.600 from the police chief of Toronto and Mayor Chow
00:03:45.240 talking about putting police back into our transit system.
00:03:52.200 And they had a whole setup where they were going to put four
00:03:56.720 at this station and four at that station.
00:03:59.060 And Christophe, you know, you and I talked about it, right?
00:04:01.680 Yes.
00:04:02.020 Yeah, just that plan to show more police or officer presence.
00:04:09.040 And just, yeah, we're not sure if that's the right direction,
00:04:12.360 especially with the recent story that it was the people in uniform
00:04:16.720 that kind of caused the problem or the scare.
00:04:20.020 So now I feel like people aren't really a thousand percent confident
00:04:25.500 with having more representation, but more looking for like a solution
00:04:31.580 or something that is actually obtainable or implementable.
00:04:36.220 Well, it has to be, it has to work, quite frankly,
00:04:38.600 because if you're going to grow as a city,
00:04:40.700 which we're trying to grow as a city, we have grown as a city,
00:04:43.440 you know, we've grown up to a crazy number.
00:04:47.000 I think we're at GTA is 7.6 million people right now.
00:04:51.060 You know, so Ontario has grown to 16 million people.
00:04:56.680 I saw that the other day.
00:04:58.020 I was like, wow, you know, we are a big city,
00:05:01.880 but our infrastructure isn't matching that big city mentality.
00:05:05.860 Not at all.
00:05:06.500 I mean, when, you know, if you've ever driven in Toronto,
00:05:09.980 I mean, you have to be an elite driver really to drive,
00:05:12.420 to drive around and be safe because the roads are chaos.
00:05:15.960 And, you know, traffic and all this, it's, you know,
00:05:19.240 transit's really a nightmare in general. 1.00
00:05:21.820 Yeah, it is.
00:05:22.540 And with all the new developments,
00:05:24.820 everything from the new zoning act
00:05:27.680 to all the new types of buildings
00:05:29.980 we're seeing being built across Canada,
00:05:32.100 you know, we're now in the era of affordable.
00:05:36.320 You know, I talk about it a lot in other shows,
00:05:39.020 you know, affordable means a lot of things,
00:05:40.500 but what affordable really means,
00:05:41.980 and you see it in the zoning of all these buildings,
00:05:44.920 no parking.
00:05:45.560 So when they say affordable,
00:05:47.860 usually when they actually pass that building,
00:05:49.760 whether it be a sixplex, a multiplex,
00:05:51.640 whether it be small apartments,
00:05:53.600 it doesn't require parking.
00:05:56.000 It has bike racks in the back.
00:05:58.200 So, you know, you look at it and you think,
00:06:00.020 okay, great,
00:06:01.480 but if our transit system's not working,
00:06:04.560 then how do we make this work?
00:06:07.420 Because our population's growing,
00:06:09.480 transit is key,
00:06:10.440 and people right now quite are afraid
00:06:13.500 to go on to our transit system.
00:06:17.680 Yes.
00:06:18.160 Yeah.
00:06:19.140 They're afraid and also, you know,
00:06:21.220 in my case, you know,
00:06:22.340 I was less worried about my safety
00:06:24.560 and more just,
00:06:25.480 I don't have the time in my life
00:06:27.020 to use transit every day.
00:06:29.120 Right.
00:06:29.500 You know,
00:06:29.820 I either have to show up half an hour early
00:06:31.560 or five minutes late
00:06:32.380 for almost anything
00:06:33.780 if you're taking the bus
00:06:34.680 or the subway or whatever.
00:06:36.100 There are delays constantly.
00:06:38.640 It doesn't go everywhere.
00:06:40.400 It's slow.
00:06:41.380 It's unreliable.
00:06:42.160 I mean, it's just,
00:06:43.300 if, you know,
00:06:44.580 you're wasting a lot of time
00:06:46.060 running on the TTC.
00:06:47.720 You really are.
00:06:48.620 Well, and you know that Finch,
00:06:50.380 do you follow the Finch story this morning?
00:06:52.360 Yes.
00:06:52.660 So I was thinking of Christoph, right?
00:06:54.460 And I was thinking of actually,
00:06:56.340 because he loves to run.
00:06:57.300 Yes.
00:06:57.780 He's a runner.
00:06:58.700 He runs all over the city.
00:07:00.060 So I was thinking about actually
00:07:01.540 for that new Finch Westline,
00:07:03.240 actually of having a video
00:07:05.080 of Christoph out running.
00:07:07.260 the cars,
00:07:08.880 like literally,
00:07:09.600 because they're now saying
00:07:11.640 it takes 55 minutes
00:07:14.020 to go 10 kilometers.
00:07:15.520 So what are you doing?
00:07:17.160 So out of curiosity,
00:07:18.320 what's your kilometer time?
00:07:20.020 Ooh, roughly.
00:07:20.800 You don't have to be right on.
00:07:21.940 Yes.
00:07:22.400 Are you doing four minutes?
00:07:23.680 Yes, about, yeah, running four.
00:07:25.840 So he's doing four minutes.
00:07:27.020 So he's there in 40 minutes,
00:07:28.380 but that car is there in 55.
00:07:30.600 Yeah.
00:07:30.920 Oh, I've seen,
00:07:31.940 I've been on the Spadina streetcar
00:07:33.460 and had an old lady pulling groceries
00:07:35.260 beat our streetcar.
00:07:37.880 On Spadina?
00:07:38.500 Oh, yeah.
00:07:39.420 I watched it myself,
00:07:40.700 watched her walk
00:07:41.380 all the way out of the distance
00:07:42.960 while I'm sitting at a light
00:07:44.000 on the Spadina streetcar.
00:07:47.000 Yeah, just get out and walk
00:07:49.260 at that point.
00:07:49.720 You look at it now
00:07:50.700 and you think to yourself,
00:07:51.640 has crime grown?
00:07:53.460 You know,
00:07:53.680 because I know
00:07:54.220 the last three trips
00:07:55.640 on the subway for me,
00:07:56.760 and you do it every day, 0.76
00:07:58.200 I had a butt-naked guy 0.80
00:08:02.020 come on and sit across from me. 0.92
00:08:05.360 Yes.
00:08:06.040 Which I was astonished
00:08:07.720 that everyone in the car
00:08:09.860 just kept reading their book
00:08:12.340 or looking at their phone.
00:08:13.880 And I'm thinking to myself,
00:08:15.160 how the heck?
00:08:16.680 He had no pants on.
00:08:18.680 Yes.
00:08:19.540 Right?
00:08:20.480 And I'm like,
00:08:21.260 and I don't take that.
00:08:22.520 And I'm like,
00:08:23.020 and so, you know,
00:08:23.640 he's sitting like here.
00:08:24.720 Like, you are.
00:08:25.520 He's like, right? 0.93
00:08:26.040 Like, you're a neck. 0.59
00:08:26.540 And I'm like, 0.79
00:08:27.240 can you put your pants on?
00:08:28.600 Like, please.
00:08:29.420 Like, I don't know.
00:08:30.080 And I'm like,
00:08:30.520 what do I do now?
00:08:31.860 You know,
00:08:32.480 because no one's paying attention.
00:08:34.780 I had a guy,
00:08:35.660 I don't know what he was doing,
00:08:37.060 but he was freebasing something
00:08:39.280 at a very noisy level
00:08:41.520 at the back of the car
00:08:43.020 on the second trip,
00:08:44.340 which was,
00:08:45.080 and then he passed out on the floor,
00:08:46.980 which, you know,
00:08:47.960 at that point,
00:08:48.680 and then the third trip,
00:08:50.660 quite frankly,
00:08:51.500 I didn't make
00:08:52.200 because the car stopped.
00:08:53.840 There was an emergency.
00:08:55.340 I had to go above ground.
00:08:57.100 I had to catch an Uber,
00:08:59.020 hustle to my meeting,
00:09:00.200 which was a lunch,
00:09:01.480 to get there.
00:09:02.400 So...
00:09:02.920 And that's aside
00:09:03.840 from the mental health crisis.
00:09:04.780 There was just a delay
00:09:06.400 for unrelated reasons.
00:09:08.420 Yeah.
00:09:08.960 Yeah.
00:09:09.140 Yeah, I mean,
00:09:10.540 I've walked through
00:09:11.120 my share of clouds of meth
00:09:13.220 while walking through
00:09:14.180 a subway station in Toronto.
00:09:16.560 Yeah.
00:09:16.920 There are people just sitting there
00:09:17.700 just doing hard drugs,
00:09:19.800 you know,
00:09:19.980 glass pipe in their hand.
00:09:21.540 Yeah.
00:09:21.920 It seems more prevalent.
00:09:23.200 And then,
00:09:23.660 for some reason,
00:09:24.840 now,
00:09:25.240 I know they do have a police.
00:09:27.760 Do you see,
00:09:28.840 like,
00:09:29.080 when you're,
00:09:29.620 I'm not on the car every day.
00:09:31.300 I'm not on the subway
00:09:32.180 or the train
00:09:32.900 or anything.
00:09:33.980 So are you seeing
00:09:35.040 presence
00:09:36.560 as you're traveling?
00:09:38.020 No.
00:09:38.780 Personally,
00:09:39.360 no.
00:09:39.860 Not in,
00:09:41.380 especially in ratio
00:09:42.380 to the crazy stuff
00:09:44.460 that's happening
00:09:45.020 or things that are
00:09:46.440 out of the norm.
00:09:49.220 I'd say
00:09:49.900 as a people
00:09:51.600 or the population
00:09:52.540 taking the TTC,
00:09:54.360 we kind of
00:09:55.040 accepted
00:09:56.120 or were desensitized
00:09:58.100 to, like,
00:09:59.700 issues,
00:10:00.640 late cars
00:10:02.040 late,
00:10:02.860 all these things.
00:10:03.640 So then,
00:10:04.560 when these occurrences happen,
00:10:06.300 people are like,
00:10:07.180 oh,
00:10:07.420 this is kind of like
00:10:08.160 a normal day,
00:10:09.260 which is kind of
00:10:10.180 a scary feeling
00:10:12.060 in itself
00:10:12.640 where it's like
00:10:13.460 a naked person
00:10:14.320 on the subway.
00:10:15.000 Oh,
00:10:15.080 that's just Tom
00:10:16.020 on Tuesday,
00:10:16.680 you know,
00:10:17.060 Thursday,
00:10:18.140 you know,
00:10:18.540 someone else
00:10:19.380 is going to come
00:10:20.060 or someone's,
00:10:21.140 unfortunately,
00:10:22.120 using the bathroom
00:10:22.980 on there
00:10:23.620 or,
00:10:24.460 you know,
00:10:24.860 and that's not even
00:10:25.580 the normal,
00:10:26.280 like,
00:10:26.900 partiers.
00:10:27.620 The partiers
00:10:28.200 don't even take
00:10:28.900 the TTC anymore
00:10:30.300 because it's too weird,
00:10:31.580 you know,
00:10:32.200 so late night,
00:10:33.040 they'd rather walk,
00:10:33.760 walk it off.
00:10:34.920 So,
00:10:35.620 all,
00:10:36.780 both,
00:10:37.120 both,
00:10:37.560 you know,
00:10:37.720 everything you're saying
00:10:38.480 is like,
00:10:39.020 it's,
00:10:39.380 it's a real thing
00:10:40.480 and just today,
00:10:41.440 even an example,
00:10:43.160 it took,
00:10:43.760 just from Spadina
00:10:45.260 down to Lakeshore,
00:10:46.180 it took about
00:10:46.640 two hours and a bit
00:10:47.800 and the weather came.
00:10:50.780 Not only are we
00:10:51.940 dealing with
00:10:52.680 just issues
00:10:53.820 of delays,
00:10:54.920 constructions,
00:10:56.760 carts are stopped,
00:10:57.940 you have to get off the cart,
00:10:59.120 then it goes backwards,
00:11:00.540 then another cart comes.
00:11:02.400 Today there was snow,
00:11:03.760 so it was a slush party
00:11:05.420 for all the buses.
00:11:06.680 People were trying
00:11:07.420 to stay dry,
00:11:08.320 they're getting splashed,
00:11:09.840 you know,
00:11:10.340 and then,
00:11:11.340 and then there's a fire
00:11:12.180 today in the subway,
00:11:13.220 so then everyone
00:11:14.180 had to leave the subway
00:11:15.480 and take shuttle buses
00:11:16.680 and we weren't ready
00:11:17.840 for shuttle buses,
00:11:19.060 you know,
00:11:19.860 so.
00:11:20.620 There was a fire
00:11:21.280 in the subway?
00:11:21.820 Yes,
00:11:22.360 yeah,
00:11:22.780 so near Lansdowne,
00:11:24.420 I think,
00:11:24.840 as I was getting here,
00:11:25.580 it was being taken care of
00:11:26.680 or they're investigating it,
00:11:28.120 so now you have
00:11:28.600 to get everybody
00:11:29.500 out of the subway
00:11:30.960 above ground,
00:11:32.280 get shuttles going,
00:11:33.440 so are we ready
00:11:34.300 for that infrastructure,
00:11:35.700 you know,
00:11:36.020 wise or planning-wise,
00:11:37.700 so now people are late,
00:11:39.480 wet, 0.94
00:11:40.080 people don't have
00:11:40.600 their boots,
00:11:41.600 you know,
00:11:41.880 they're not,
00:11:42.360 not everyone's from Canada,
00:11:44.020 knows the,
00:11:44.680 so those are just
00:11:45.900 a couple things,
00:11:46.780 but yeah,
00:11:47.120 today was a prime example
00:11:48.320 when like weather
00:11:49.340 and like poor planning,
00:11:51.520 you know.
00:11:52.740 To speak on that apathy
00:11:53.960 in terms of,
00:11:54.680 you know,
00:11:54.800 no one's saying anything
00:11:55.980 when these things happen,
00:11:57.000 well,
00:11:57.160 there's a good reason for it,
00:11:58.300 I mean,
00:11:59.260 you know,
00:12:00.780 previous years
00:12:01.840 when I rode the subway,
00:12:03.400 you know,
00:12:03.540 someone would come on
00:12:04.080 and start blaring music
00:12:04.880 and,
00:12:06.420 you know,
00:12:07.600 you just think,
00:12:08.940 you just think,
00:12:11.060 turn that off,
00:12:11.980 please,
00:12:12.340 it's always,
00:12:12.800 they always have
00:12:13.280 the worst taste
00:12:13.840 in music ever,
00:12:14.900 of course,
00:12:15.280 anyone who thinks
00:12:16.980 that's okay to do,
00:12:17.760 but then you think
00:12:18.920 to yourself,
00:12:19.440 like if they think
00:12:20.200 that's okay to do here,
00:12:21.920 they're probably not well
00:12:23.480 in the head,
00:12:24.780 you know,
00:12:24.960 they're not,
00:12:25.780 so me going over there
00:12:26.940 and telling them
00:12:27.380 to turn it off
00:12:28.060 might lead to,
00:12:29.420 and I read a story
00:12:30.580 last week,
00:12:31.160 a guy got stabbed
00:12:32.200 like 13 times
00:12:33.260 or something like that
00:12:33.960 for telling a guy
00:12:35.100 to turn his music off.
00:12:36.580 That's it,
00:12:36.920 just telling a guy
00:12:37.500 to turn his music off,
00:12:38.720 you know?
00:12:39.460 So yeah,
00:12:40.140 it's,
00:12:40.480 that apathy is real
00:12:41.580 and it's sort of like
00:12:42.400 you don't want
00:12:42.700 to get involved,
00:12:43.380 you do not want,
00:12:44.120 you're trapped
00:12:45.020 on this train
00:12:45.720 with this person.
00:12:47.240 Well,
00:12:47.380 look at New York,
00:12:48.140 you know,
00:12:48.440 where that gentleman
00:12:49.740 unfortunately ended up
00:12:51.480 strangling that gentleman
00:12:52.520 who came and it was
00:12:54.280 a big controversy
00:12:55.220 he ended up getting off
00:12:56.140 but it's a terrible incident
00:12:57.900 but quite frankly, 0.99
00:12:58.940 he was mentally ill,
00:13:00.360 they struggled, 0.98
00:13:01.180 he actually had military training,
00:13:03.140 went to a chokehold
00:13:03.940 and ended up killing him, 0.99
00:13:05.180 right? 0.96
00:13:06.020 Because he overdid it,
00:13:07.100 he went,
00:13:07.400 you know,
00:13:07.560 he went too far
00:13:08.220 but you don't want
00:13:10.720 to be in those,
00:13:11.780 like,
00:13:12.020 you know,
00:13:12.200 you look at it,
00:13:12.900 again,
00:13:13.480 I'm sitting across
00:13:14.260 from a guy
00:13:14.560 with no pants,
00:13:15.500 you know?
00:13:16.580 Am I happy?
00:13:18.120 No,
00:13:18.440 I come from a generation
00:13:19.660 where quite frankly,
00:13:21.320 we would probably get
00:13:22.340 into a fight
00:13:22.820 with someone
00:13:23.200 who did that,
00:13:24.040 right?
00:13:24.800 Yes.
00:13:25.200 And,
00:13:25.460 you know,
00:13:25.820 you brought up
00:13:26.220 a good point
00:13:26.680 about people
00:13:27.120 not being from Canada
00:13:28.640 so I find it interesting
00:13:30.940 and this is a really
00:13:32.300 something I think
00:13:33.580 Canadians need to understand
00:13:35.840 who are born in Canada
00:13:37.220 and grew up in Canada.
00:13:38.920 People who are immigrating
00:13:40.140 to Canada,
00:13:40.820 a lot of them
00:13:41.380 come from countries
00:13:42.240 where a lot of this stuff
00:13:43.820 isn't acceptable.
00:13:45.160 So,
00:13:45.920 the reason they're not
00:13:46.800 taking the subway
00:13:47.760 is because they get
00:13:49.640 on the subway
00:13:50.160 and they see these things
00:13:51.380 and they're like,
00:13:52.680 okay,
00:13:52.980 my country wouldn't
00:13:53.800 accept that
00:13:54.380 so they're not going
00:13:55.060 to go back
00:13:55.440 to the subway.
00:13:56.160 They're going to do
00:13:56.780 whatever they can
00:13:57.680 and pay whatever
00:13:58.400 they need to pay
00:13:59.280 to get a car
00:14:00.400 to get insurance
00:14:02.300 which is
00:14:02.900 wildly over expensive
00:14:05.620 for new immigrants
00:14:07.040 who come to Canada
00:14:07.720 but you know what
00:14:08.620 the ones I know
00:14:09.640 or the people
00:14:10.120 that I interact with
00:14:11.140 they'll do it.
00:14:12.640 They'll do it
00:14:13.280 because quite frankly
00:14:14.060 they know 1.00
00:14:14.480 what a crap show 1.00
00:14:16.260 it is to get on there 0.99
00:14:18.200 and they're not used
00:14:19.440 to it.
00:14:19.740 They're not used
00:14:20.280 to, you know,
00:14:21.520 screaming,
00:14:22.460 yelling,
00:14:23.160 drugs,
00:14:24.100 guy with no pants,
00:14:25.420 the countries
00:14:25.920 they come from.
00:14:26.940 They would be tortured
00:14:28.360 or beaten
00:14:28.860 if they actually
00:14:29.960 did that
00:14:30.500 in a public forum.
00:14:31.740 So they're like,
00:14:32.680 I wouldn't,
00:14:33.640 people in my country
00:14:34.700 wouldn't be able
00:14:35.600 to do this
00:14:36.220 but in this country
00:14:37.420 they are
00:14:38.580 and they do it
00:14:39.160 on public transit
00:14:40.060 so they shy away
00:14:41.300 from it
00:14:41.640 and the numbers
00:14:42.940 after COVID
00:14:43.560 so I just wanted
00:14:44.160 to share the numbers
00:14:44.780 with you
00:14:45.000 because it's very interesting.
00:14:46.380 The numbers
00:14:47.000 after COVID
00:14:47.980 so the TTC,
00:14:50.140 we're going to talk
00:14:50.520 about the TTC
00:14:51.220 and then we're going
00:14:51.640 to talk about
00:14:52.040 Metrolinks for a minute.
00:14:53.140 I'm focusing on Toronto.
00:14:54.820 By the way,
00:14:55.340 this problem
00:14:56.000 when you look at it
00:14:56.920 crime-wise
00:14:57.540 is across
00:14:58.380 from Calgary
00:14:59.740 to Vancouver
00:15:01.720 to the transit system
00:15:05.020 in Nova Scotia,
00:15:06.220 New Brunswick,
00:15:07.280 you hear stories
00:15:08.680 all over, right?
00:15:09.820 Fighting,
00:15:11.180 stabbings,
00:15:12.020 shootings
00:15:12.440 on the transit systems,
00:15:14.160 right?
00:15:14.300 And more so,
00:15:15.900 I think the stats
00:15:16.780 coming out of,
00:15:17.620 we were looking at it
00:15:18.280 this morning,
00:15:19.120 the stats coming out
00:15:20.440 of COVID
00:15:20.840 have just grown,
00:15:21.840 grown,
00:15:22.180 grown
00:15:22.500 to a kind of
00:15:24.120 top level
00:15:25.260 at 2024.
00:15:27.160 It is starting
00:15:28.140 to kind of
00:15:28.860 stabilize a little
00:15:30.100 but it's actually
00:15:31.040 stabilized
00:15:31.660 at a high amount.
00:15:33.500 So the crime rates
00:15:34.440 on transit
00:15:35.480 have gone up,
00:15:36.360 up, up
00:15:36.840 and they've kind of leveled
00:15:37.980 but they're still high.
00:15:40.200 So,
00:15:41.720 you know,
00:15:42.100 I go back to the,
00:15:43.160 let's talk to TTC
00:15:44.060 for a minute
00:15:44.580 because that was
00:15:45.560 the announcement
00:15:46.020 the other day
00:15:46.600 with the mayor,
00:15:47.740 Mayor Chow.
00:15:49.240 You know,
00:15:49.600 they said,
00:15:50.040 well,
00:15:50.360 you know,
00:15:50.660 we're going to start
00:15:51.220 to put police back in.
00:15:52.500 We tried it after COVID.
00:15:53.620 We're going to go back to it.
00:15:55.260 The reason
00:15:56.040 or the rationale
00:15:56.800 is the ridership
00:15:59.000 is down.
00:16:00.980 So the annual report
00:16:02.320 came out.
00:16:03.000 The ridership
00:16:03.700 is down
00:16:04.120 118 million people.
00:16:07.020 So they lost
00:16:08.440 118 million people
00:16:10.400 from the high
00:16:11.960 of 2015.
00:16:13.720 So they basically,
00:16:14.940 you know,
00:16:15.260 the best year
00:16:16.040 they had for ridership
00:16:17.220 was 2015.
00:16:19.980 They were
00:16:21.060 growing,
00:16:22.200 growing,
00:16:22.600 growing
00:16:22.840 and then they
00:16:23.440 hit this
00:16:24.940 apex.
00:16:26.100 It stayed
00:16:26.600 pretty level
00:16:27.300 up until 19.
00:16:28.760 I think they did
00:16:29.480 525 million
00:16:31.700 rides
00:16:32.860 in 2019.
00:16:36.120 And then
00:16:36.960 we had COVID.
00:16:38.040 No one rode.
00:16:39.140 Remember,
00:16:39.460 they canceled buses,
00:16:40.440 whatever.
00:16:41.540 No one came back.
00:16:43.420 Very few people
00:16:44.480 came back.
00:16:45.680 So,
00:16:46.260 and what I mean
00:16:47.060 very few people,
00:16:48.720 you know,
00:16:49.040 they lost
00:16:49.540 118 million people.
00:16:51.900 So now,
00:16:52.660 the challenge,
00:16:53.300 so here's the challenge.
00:16:54.700 And I'm an accountant,
00:16:56.020 so I'll just
00:16:56.820 bore you with
00:16:57.560 some numbers,
00:16:58.340 right?
00:16:58.720 Here's the challenge.
00:17:01.180 You've
00:17:01.700 dumped
00:17:02.640 a lot of money
00:17:04.360 into the transit system.
00:17:05.500 So I went
00:17:06.460 and looked
00:17:06.920 last night.
00:17:07.620 I said,
00:17:07.860 okay,
00:17:08.220 my accountant's brain,
00:17:10.260 what is the capital
00:17:11.340 expenditure
00:17:11.900 life to date
00:17:12.920 on the Toronto
00:17:14.220 transit system?
00:17:15.480 3,000 vehicles
00:17:16.980 are in that system.
00:17:18.640 It has
00:17:19.680 8,600 employees
00:17:22.000 now,
00:17:22.700 but what,
00:17:23.660 how much did it spend
00:17:24.420 to build the infrastructure
00:17:25.540 for that?
00:17:26.720 And it's about
00:17:27.640 $24 billion.
00:17:29.960 So over the years,
00:17:31.120 we spent about
00:17:31.700 $24 billion.
00:17:32.800 The net value
00:17:33.520 of the remaining
00:17:34.240 after the depreciation
00:17:36.040 and the write-offs
00:17:36.680 is about
00:17:37.560 $13 billion.
00:17:40.120 So it's a lot
00:17:41.000 of money.
00:17:41.380 And over the years,
00:17:42.380 you know,
00:17:42.660 quite frankly,
00:17:43.560 we just kept
00:17:44.680 reinvesting.
00:17:45.520 So in 2015,
00:17:47.100 when we were
00:17:47.780 at our apex
00:17:48.720 of ridership,
00:17:50.240 we were only,
00:17:51.340 we had only spent
00:17:52.500 $15 billion
00:17:53.240 on the system.
00:17:54.420 We doubled down
00:17:55.660 from 15 to 2024.
00:17:57.840 We spent another
00:17:58.580 $9 billion.
00:18:01.080 You know,
00:18:01.540 this Finch West
00:18:05.100 track
00:18:06.400 that we just opened,
00:18:07.660 I think is
00:18:08.380 $2.5 billion,
00:18:09.820 the one that you run
00:18:10.820 faster than.
00:18:12.000 And so frankly,
00:18:13.500 so now
00:18:14.440 we're really in it.
00:18:17.100 Like we're in it.
00:18:17.780 We spent $24 billion
00:18:19.180 on transit.
00:18:20.440 We have,
00:18:20.780 you know,
00:18:22.200 webs going through
00:18:23.120 the city,
00:18:23.860 disconnected.
00:18:25.820 We have,
00:18:26.780 you know,
00:18:27.260 almost 9,000 employees.
00:18:29.320 It's a big entity.
00:18:32.280 But revenue's going down
00:18:34.280 because the ridership's
00:18:35.840 going down.
00:18:36.540 So it's down
00:18:38.240 around $200 million.
00:18:39.780 and the subsidization's
00:18:42.460 going up.
00:18:43.000 So if you look
00:18:43.920 at 2015,
00:18:45.580 the ridership paid
00:18:47.020 $1.2 billion
00:18:49.120 to ride it.
00:18:50.100 That's the revenue.
00:18:51.160 So the revenue
00:18:52.120 of the transit system
00:18:53.940 in Toronto
00:18:54.380 for the TTC.
00:18:56.800 In 2024,
00:18:58.340 it's dropped
00:18:58.820 to a billion.
00:19:00.120 So it's slightly
00:19:00.880 under a billion dollars.
00:19:01.940 25,
00:19:02.640 we're going to find out,
00:19:03.320 but it looks like
00:19:04.260 it's going down
00:19:05.120 because they're
00:19:05.840 panicking a little.
00:19:07.840 The subsidies,
00:19:09.620 so the,
00:19:10.100 your taxes,
00:19:11.940 my taxes,
00:19:12.520 all our taxes,
00:19:13.840 has gone from
00:19:14.760 $2.2 billion
00:19:16.600 in 2015
00:19:17.780 to $2.9
00:19:19.880 in 2024.
00:19:21.400 So the government's
00:19:24.540 highly subsidizing.
00:19:25.580 The subsidies
00:19:26.040 are going up.
00:19:26.620 As less money
00:19:27.600 is made
00:19:28.280 from ridership,
00:19:30.620 the subsidies
00:19:31.140 go up
00:19:31.960 to keep it alive
00:19:34.060 because you have
00:19:34.540 the operating costs.
00:19:36.220 You have to pay
00:19:37.140 all those people.
00:19:37.960 You have to service 0.94
00:19:38.940 that capital.
00:19:40.440 It's a never-ending,
00:19:42.420 we're like a little bit
00:19:43.920 of a mouse
00:19:44.460 on a treadmill
00:19:45.060 and we're running,
00:19:46.520 running, running,
00:19:47.060 but the problem is
00:19:48.060 we're going
00:19:49.280 in the wrong direction.
00:19:50.600 So what is
00:19:51.120 the spending?
00:19:52.580 Is this due to,
00:19:53.900 is everybody
00:19:54.760 just throwing money
00:19:55.200 into a pit?
00:19:55.760 Is this mismanagement
00:19:56.940 of this money?
00:19:59.760 You know,
00:20:00.060 for example,
00:20:00.580 the Eglinton LRT line.
00:20:03.480 I think they just
00:20:04.720 held a quinceañera
00:20:05.820 for the unopened
00:20:08.000 LRT line.
00:20:11.180 Is this just incompetence
00:20:12.800 or what's getting
00:20:14.680 in the way of this?
00:20:16.300 Well, you know,
00:20:16.780 it's a good question,
00:20:17.620 Nick.
00:20:17.780 You know,
00:20:17.980 I don't really know.
00:20:19.280 The one thing
00:20:20.160 I would say
00:20:20.840 is we're just
00:20:22.080 not good
00:20:22.820 at building transit.
00:20:24.740 We're not great
00:20:25.520 at roads
00:20:26.020 and we're not good
00:20:26.820 at building transit.
00:20:27.700 So we've kind of,
00:20:28.540 I think we can keep
00:20:29.480 trying to build
00:20:30.300 transit lines
00:20:31.440 and systems
00:20:32.020 and everything else,
00:20:32.980 but at some point
00:20:33.780 we've got to say,
00:20:34.620 time out.
00:20:35.580 There's some things
00:20:36.500 we need to go
00:20:37.280 to other countries for
00:20:38.520 and we need
00:20:39.320 to bring some people in.
00:20:41.040 Right?
00:20:41.620 And, you know,
00:20:42.280 we were talking
00:20:43.340 about it before.
00:20:44.080 Yes.
00:20:44.340 What are some of the,
00:20:45.200 like some of the other
00:20:45.920 countries have really
00:20:46.860 great transit systems,
00:20:48.460 right?
00:20:48.760 Like, you know,
00:20:50.300 Tokyo,
00:20:51.720 great transit systems.
00:20:53.300 Netherlands.
00:20:53.860 Netherlands,
00:20:54.540 great transit systems.
00:20:55.620 Like, why do those work
00:20:56.980 and why do ours not work?
00:20:58.860 I think a big problem
00:21:02.240 that complicates
00:21:03.360 all of this
00:21:03.800 is that the infrastructure
00:21:04.720 in Canada
00:21:06.780 and North America
00:21:07.860 in general
00:21:08.440 is a lot different
00:21:09.060 from, say, Japan
00:21:10.540 or the Netherlands.
00:21:12.060 Oh, big thing.
00:21:12.440 How they set up the roads,
00:21:13.740 how the zoning,
00:21:14.920 things like this.
00:21:15.460 So they're already
00:21:15.940 working with a system
00:21:17.280 that's probably
00:21:18.860 more transit friendly
00:21:20.180 versus North America
00:21:23.280 where a lot of,
00:21:24.000 a lot of our urban planning
00:21:25.460 is just car centric.
00:21:28.120 Yes.
00:21:28.220 So we're working
00:21:28.740 around something
00:21:29.700 that's car centric
00:21:30.580 that's ultimately,
00:21:33.100 and I think that's
00:21:33.680 what's slowing down
00:21:34.420 this, your track there
00:21:36.500 is crossings.
00:21:38.840 I think there's red lights
00:21:39.740 or something like that
00:21:40.180 or the trains
00:21:42.300 don't get priority.
00:21:44.000 Things like this.
00:21:45.380 And yeah,
00:21:46.560 so I think
00:21:47.240 that's a big complication now.
00:21:48.980 I think it's still,
00:21:50.240 you know,
00:21:50.400 even if we are starting
00:21:52.060 in a different spot,
00:21:53.160 I think it's really worthwhile
00:21:55.060 to take a look
00:21:55.560 at these countries.
00:21:57.020 Certainly not in,
00:21:58.220 I can't think
00:21:58.880 of a good system
00:21:59.480 that exists in the U.S.
00:22:00.820 or Canada.
00:22:02.000 Maybe Montreal
00:22:02.660 would be the,
00:22:03.340 are the most shining example
00:22:04.580 in North America.
00:22:05.640 Well, you know,
00:22:06.300 it's interesting
00:22:06.920 because the U.S.,
00:22:07.700 and Christophe,
00:22:08.440 you know this
00:22:08.900 from New York, right?
00:22:09.940 Yes.
00:22:10.220 people left it.
00:22:11.900 Yes.
00:22:12.580 Chicago, people left it.
00:22:15.840 They, right now,
00:22:17.200 because of the crime
00:22:18.060 and the undependability
00:22:21.460 of the systems,
00:22:22.700 the people abandoned
00:22:23.820 the transit systems.
00:22:25.200 So they keep them
00:22:26.300 because they keep them
00:22:27.140 because major cities
00:22:28.440 usually have them.
00:22:30.180 But people don't ride them.
00:22:31.880 They just,
00:22:32.420 and I think they've tried
00:22:34.160 in New York recently again
00:22:37.080 to put a full police force.
00:22:40.100 And, you know,
00:22:40.900 you did some stats
00:22:41.720 about where,
00:22:42.460 so why don't you talk
00:22:43.780 a little bit about
00:22:44.420 where they use full police forces
00:22:46.500 in subway systems?
00:22:47.940 Yes.
00:22:48.220 So New York City,
00:22:50.300 their MTA system,
00:22:52.080 they adopted
00:22:53.400 a high police visibility
00:22:55.560 and a little bit of,
00:22:57.980 like, a homelessness outreach.
00:23:00.100 But they have
00:23:00.580 1,000 NYPD officers
00:23:02.600 deployed during peak hours.
00:23:05.540 Wow.
00:23:06.140 So 1,000.
00:23:07.280 Wow, 1,000.
00:23:08.400 And you do see it
00:23:09.500 when you're there, by the way.
00:23:10.460 When I do go in and out
00:23:11.700 in New York,
00:23:12.580 I do, and I do ride the subway
00:23:14.800 during the day,
00:23:15.660 not at night,
00:23:16.300 but I do see
00:23:17.260 a lot of police presence.
00:23:18.340 Like, at each of the stops,
00:23:19.660 when you get out,
00:23:20.400 when you go in,
00:23:21.420 there's a police,
00:23:22.060 right when you pay,
00:23:23.280 there's a police officer there
00:23:24.940 or two.
00:23:25.820 There's always people there.
00:23:27.120 And they even delegate
00:23:28.780 a bit of the force
00:23:30.000 to target sweeps
00:23:31.980 for weapons
00:23:32.620 and also fare evasion.
00:23:34.560 Oh, which is good.
00:23:35.640 Well, that's the one thing
00:23:36.440 I do notice,
00:23:37.180 fare evasion,
00:23:38.280 like, huge issue now.
00:23:40.280 I have a story
00:23:40.840 of fare evasion.
00:23:42.300 This is probably 2017
00:23:43.780 or something like that.
00:23:45.520 Was it the,
00:23:46.100 it was the Dundas station,
00:23:49.520 I believe.
00:23:52.480 Was going in,
00:23:53.660 a guy comes,
00:23:54.900 just basically skips
00:23:55.960 the queue
00:23:57.580 to not pay.
00:23:59.000 Transit police
00:24:00.620 stop him.
00:24:01.460 Hey, 0.91
00:24:02.020 the guy just balls his fist
00:24:03.260 at the guy
00:24:03.760 and the guy,
00:24:04.500 and the transit police
00:24:05.700 just goes.
00:24:06.760 And other riders
00:24:08.260 looked at the police
00:24:09.060 going, like,
00:24:09.780 what are you doing?
00:24:11.260 And he said,
00:24:12.080 like,
00:24:12.180 I can't stop that guy.
00:24:13.240 And I believe him.
00:24:14.520 He said,
00:24:14.840 like,
00:24:14.960 I can't,
00:24:15.800 I can't stop a guy
00:24:16.820 who's just going to
00:24:17.600 physically bite me,
00:24:19.220 you know?
00:24:19.840 So that's,
00:24:20.340 that's the thing.
00:24:20.920 Like,
00:24:21.060 it's,
00:24:21.440 I wouldn't want to be,
00:24:22.440 I wouldn't want to be
00:24:23.000 that guy's job.
00:24:23.820 I'm not,
00:24:24.080 I'm not talking trash
00:24:25.240 about him,
00:24:25.580 but it's just,
00:24:26.040 you can't,
00:24:26.880 you know,
00:24:27.300 you can't be,
00:24:28.340 he's probably dealing
00:24:28.860 with people like this
00:24:29.360 every day.
00:24:29.960 He can't be getting
00:24:30.600 to fist fights
00:24:31.320 with people
00:24:32.500 every day.
00:24:33.620 You know, 1.00
00:24:34.380 lunatic, 1.00
00:24:34.940 you know,
00:24:35.080 people who,
00:24:35.640 you know,
00:24:35.960 who could be
00:24:36.640 carrying a weapon,
00:24:37.300 could be whatever,
00:24:38.280 you know,
00:24:38.440 they're just going
00:24:38.840 to go,
00:24:39.220 okay,
00:24:39.920 go,
00:24:40.500 go ahead,
00:24:40.980 I guess.
00:24:41.720 But yeah,
00:24:42.380 no,
00:24:42.620 no,
00:24:42.760 and I'm with you.
00:24:43.340 And other,
00:24:43.840 other places
00:24:44.940 have actually deployed,
00:24:46.300 actually in-house
00:24:47.800 police systems
00:24:49.340 in their.
00:24:50.480 Yes.
00:24:51.040 Yeah.
00:24:51.560 And versus Toronto,
00:24:52.940 which is more focused
00:24:55.260 on a non-police
00:24:57.260 crisis workers.
00:24:59.060 So it's like
00:25:00.840 versus New York,
00:25:02.160 which is the police first.
00:25:03.540 So here we have
00:25:05.220 the police
00:25:06.720 or people
00:25:07.080 that we're putting
00:25:07.640 in there
00:25:08.000 are targeting more
00:25:09.120 along like
00:25:09.980 the mental health
00:25:11.180 or violence.
00:25:13.600 So it's a little bit
00:25:15.180 of a different intention
00:25:16.400 and even in the
00:25:17.600 officer presence.
00:25:18.600 So you get an
00:25:19.140 intervention here.
00:25:20.140 Intervention here,
00:25:21.000 not protection.
00:25:22.760 All your family members,
00:25:23.860 they come down
00:25:24.360 to the transit,
00:25:25.180 we sit around
00:25:25.760 doing an intervention.
00:25:26.800 Yes.
00:25:27.280 No.
00:25:27.440 The state's
00:25:29.260 a little different.
00:25:30.160 Yeah.
00:25:31.220 Yeah.
00:25:31.660 And, you know,
00:25:32.180 that's, you know,
00:25:33.180 the challenge.
00:25:34.220 We're kind of at that,
00:25:35.160 you know,
00:25:35.520 people say,
00:25:36.240 well, that's that
00:25:36.880 we don't want
00:25:37.660 more police officers
00:25:38.720 in the subway system.
00:25:40.040 We, you know,
00:25:40.360 we can't afford that either.
00:25:41.740 But we're kind of
00:25:42.740 at that crossroads now.
00:25:44.000 We really are.
00:25:44.760 All pun aside,
00:25:46.920 we've spent
00:25:48.160 all this money.
00:25:49.140 We have all
00:25:50.140 this infrastructure
00:25:50.900 in play.
00:25:51.460 We're bringing people
00:25:53.580 and we're creating
00:25:54.720 new zoning
00:25:55.560 that doesn't account
00:25:56.820 for parking.
00:25:57.860 So, like,
00:25:59.780 we're pregnant.
00:26:01.760 Yeah.
00:26:02.120 Right?
00:26:02.460 We're there.
00:26:03.060 We're basically,
00:26:04.100 we got to figure out
00:26:04.800 what we're going to do now
00:26:05.620 because we can't go
00:26:07.560 and I love these
00:26:08.920 kind of discussions
00:26:09.800 where people get on the TV
00:26:11.100 and they say,
00:26:11.600 we should build new highways
00:26:13.160 and we should do this
00:26:14.320 and we should do that.
00:26:15.420 Great.
00:26:15.900 Got it.
00:26:16.480 Right?
00:26:18.620 What are you going to do
00:26:19.400 with your transit system?
00:26:20.360 Hmm.
00:26:21.500 Because you've got
00:26:21.900 to figure that out first
00:26:22.860 because that's your,
00:26:23.840 you've already sunk
00:26:24.680 all this money into it.
00:26:26.140 We don't own,
00:26:27.140 unfortunately,
00:26:27.980 we don't own
00:26:28.780 our toll highway.
00:26:30.080 Yeah.
00:26:30.300 You know,
00:26:30.620 a lot of our highways,
00:26:31.880 you know,
00:26:32.220 we don't own
00:26:32.800 throughout Canada
00:26:34.680 and quite frankly,
00:26:36.040 we struggle
00:26:36.660 because of that
00:26:37.840 but we have to
00:26:39.280 kind of make that decision
00:26:40.240 from a planning perspective.
00:26:41.900 Are we going to go
00:26:42.960 deeper into
00:26:44.020 the transit system?
00:26:45.820 You know,
00:26:46.100 Metrolinx,
00:26:46.660 by the way,
00:26:47.020 I took a look at Metro,
00:26:47.880 I was curious
00:26:48.480 because Metrolinx,
00:26:49.440 you know,
00:26:49.640 Go Trains,
00:26:50.200 all that good stuff.
00:26:52.140 I was a little bit shocked.
00:26:53.560 I was,
00:26:53.960 I was kind of astounded.
00:26:55.480 So,
00:26:56.000 72 million riders.
00:26:59.820 So,
00:27:00.360 not as many
00:27:01.200 as I thought.
00:27:02.980 You know,
00:27:03.660 a little more costly,
00:27:04.660 of course,
00:27:05.040 to ride,
00:27:05.580 right?
00:27:05.800 So,
00:27:06.600 it has a revenue
00:27:08.960 about 800 million bucks.
00:27:11.820 It's subsidized
00:27:12.920 1.3 million
00:27:14.200 or billion,
00:27:15.600 sorry,
00:27:16.060 billion.
00:27:17.720 And it has
00:27:19.600 roughly capital expenditure
00:27:22.000 to date
00:27:22.640 of about
00:27:23.640 60 billion dollars.
00:27:25.740 Where's Metrolinx?
00:27:27.480 Metrolinx is your Go Trains.
00:27:29.180 It's all your,
00:27:29.820 yeah.
00:27:30.180 So,
00:27:31.160 so,
00:27:31.540 you know,
00:27:32.040 so if you look at it,
00:27:33.340 like just a loan
00:27:34.120 in Toronto,
00:27:35.500 we subsidized
00:27:37.040 those two entities
00:27:37.920 to the tune
00:27:38.680 of 4.2 billion dollars
00:27:41.160 a year.
00:27:43.620 And we're in,
00:27:44.740 in the hole right now,
00:27:45.780 we've spent
00:27:46.400 over 80 billion dollars
00:27:48.380 on transit.
00:27:49.300 Yes.
00:27:50.040 It's still not working
00:27:51.260 efficiently
00:27:51.760 and the ridership
00:27:52.920 is going in the wrong direction.
00:27:54.440 Going down.
00:27:54.720 You see,
00:27:55.640 my personal opinion
00:27:57.220 is that we do have
00:27:58.200 to spend our way
00:27:58.880 out of this.
00:27:59.440 Now,
00:27:59.560 I'm not saying
00:28:00.100 we carry on
00:28:00.860 as we've been doing.
00:28:02.100 Obviously,
00:28:02.480 there's,
00:28:02.680 there's,
00:28:03.080 there's mismanagement here.
00:28:06.400 But,
00:28:07.100 at the same time,
00:28:08.500 we,
00:28:08.720 we can't have
00:28:10.140 more people
00:28:10.740 getting into cars.
00:28:11.600 We cannot widen
00:28:12.180 the highways enough
00:28:12.940 to,
00:28:13.240 to fit all these cars.
00:28:14.320 We're not going
00:28:14.940 to be building
00:28:15.320 a tunnel underneath
00:28:16.380 the 401. 0.89
00:28:17.480 That's ridiculous. 0.83
00:28:19.600 You know, 0.97
00:28:20.200 if,
00:28:20.640 if this quarter
00:28:21.400 of people,
00:28:22.400 I think you were
00:28:23.320 saying before that
00:28:23.860 it's a quarter
00:28:24.680 of Torontonians
00:28:25.480 are,
00:28:25.820 are taking transit.
00:28:27.700 Yeah,
00:28:27.860 if you do the,
00:28:28.500 if you kind of do
00:28:29.260 the fair math on it,
00:28:30.440 it works out to about,
00:28:32.020 and assuming,
00:28:33.340 say,
00:28:33.640 people who travel
00:28:34.500 on the,
00:28:35.480 the buses,
00:28:36.600 subways,
00:28:37.600 it's roughly
00:28:38.220 about 2 million people.
00:28:39.720 Yeah.
00:28:40.280 Take the transit,
00:28:41.540 you know,
00:28:41.980 which is.
00:28:42.580 That's still
00:28:42.880 a significant amount.
00:28:43.860 It's a significant amount,
00:28:45.240 right?
00:28:45.600 Yeah.
00:28:45.860 But it's going down.
00:28:47.240 Yes.
00:28:47.880 So,
00:28:48.340 you know,
00:28:48.560 and those people
00:28:48.940 are getting cars
00:28:49.560 or,
00:28:49.960 I don't know,
00:28:50.340 not going to work.
00:28:51.000 I don't know.
00:28:52.560 And they're aging.
00:28:53.620 We have an aging pocket.
00:28:54.560 We have a,
00:28:57.900 you know,
00:28:58.360 our immigration
00:28:59.400 is replacing
00:29:00.100 kind of our baby boomers
00:29:01.340 who are leaving our cities.
00:29:03.100 So,
00:29:04.160 the new immigrants 1.00
00:29:05.100 are coming,
00:29:05.580 don't have,
00:29:06.200 a lot of them
00:29:06.780 don't have any interest
00:29:08.140 of ever seeing our transit.
00:29:09.860 Mm-hmm.
00:29:10.780 Mm-hmm.
00:29:11.240 It's true.
00:29:11.640 Yeah.
00:29:12.380 But they should.
00:29:13.320 I mean,
00:29:13.620 I've lived in a city
00:29:14.980 with real transit system
00:29:16.940 and it's wonderful
00:29:17.660 and I wouldn't want to drive,
00:29:20.040 you know,
00:29:20.300 if there was a decent system
00:29:21.580 where I could go on,
00:29:23.000 hop on,
00:29:23.540 get to where I'm going
00:29:24.300 in a relatively,
00:29:25.700 not even as fast as a car,
00:29:27.040 even if it's a bit slower,
00:29:29.600 but still reliable.
00:29:30.460 That would be fine
00:29:31.520 and I think a lot of people
00:29:32.300 would be fine with that.
00:29:34.060 It's,
00:29:34.600 you know,
00:29:35.080 this,
00:29:35.720 but we cannot,
00:29:37.020 we cannot deal with
00:29:38.300 our,
00:29:39.540 the,
00:29:40.000 the crisis we have
00:29:41.600 in Toronto
00:29:42.260 and other cities
00:29:43.140 with,
00:29:43.560 with traffic
00:29:44.580 just through getting more cars.
00:29:46.980 Like,
00:29:47.280 we have to move people
00:29:48.560 en masse somehow
00:29:49.600 and I,
00:29:51.760 I don't know.
00:29:52.920 I,
00:29:53.080 I wish I knew,
00:29:54.220 I wish I understood.
00:29:54.980 I,
00:29:55.100 I actually wanted to do
00:29:56.060 a deep dive on Eglinton LRT
00:29:57.620 and like what the hell's going on.
00:29:59.940 Maybe we should,
00:30:00.880 I don't know.
00:30:01.360 But,
00:30:01.660 yeah,
00:30:03.400 I mean,
00:30:03.920 what,
00:30:04.200 what is this?
00:30:04.680 Is it,
00:30:05.160 this is why I'm asking like,
00:30:06.340 is this mismanagement?
00:30:07.220 Is this just,
00:30:07.820 we need to spend more money?
00:30:08.660 What is it?
00:30:09.220 Because obviously
00:30:09.740 we can't just abandon this.
00:30:11.340 Well,
00:30:11.480 that was quite frankly,
00:30:12.600 because that's,
00:30:13.340 that's a,
00:30:13.960 you know,
00:30:14.440 years over budget,
00:30:15.680 a billion dollars,
00:30:16.800 or years behind,
00:30:18.960 a billion dollars over budget,
00:30:20.560 still no date of opening.
00:30:22.560 That,
00:30:23.040 that was a contract
00:30:23.980 that just got awarded
00:30:25.240 that didn't get managed well
00:30:27.420 and we're paying the price for.
00:30:29.040 All the store owners,
00:30:30.520 all the developments
00:30:31.560 along Eglinton,
00:30:32.760 I know,
00:30:33.480 because I'm out in Scarborough
00:30:35.060 quite a bit.
00:30:35.740 I see it's a mess that,
00:30:37.420 you know,
00:30:37.680 they're still practicing
00:30:39.040 driving the streetcars.
00:30:42.700 They're still trying to get
00:30:43.440 the cars working properly.
00:30:45.600 And they've had the cars so long.
00:30:47.340 They've had them for,
00:30:48.300 I think,
00:30:48.560 a decade now.
00:30:50.000 They've basically,
00:30:51.040 they're obsolete,
00:30:51.940 so they can't get parts
00:30:52.840 for them now.
00:30:53.420 So they never got it open
00:30:54.380 in the time frame
00:30:55.200 that they needed to,
00:30:56.500 which created a real mess.
00:30:58.040 So yeah,
00:30:59.020 that one,
00:30:59.520 that one's just,
00:31:00.260 but again,
00:31:01.480 you know,
00:31:01.920 you got to do the things.
00:31:03.020 Here's the,
00:31:03.560 here's what I think
00:31:04.500 as Canadians,
00:31:05.740 we have to do
00:31:06.620 a little,
00:31:07.380 a lot better on.
00:31:08.340 We have to focus
00:31:09.240 on what we do really well
00:31:10.540 and acknowledge
00:31:11.800 what we don't do well.
00:31:13.840 You know,
00:31:14.160 I thought about doing a show,
00:31:15.460 I think I mentioned
00:31:16.080 to Nick one day
00:31:16.960 and Christophe,
00:31:17.860 I thought about doing a show
00:31:19.140 of 12 things Canadians
00:31:20.480 should never build.
00:31:21.780 right?
00:31:24.120 Yeah,
00:31:24.380 you know,
00:31:24.660 no,
00:31:25.000 I'm not kidding,
00:31:25.540 but we should really,
00:31:26.980 we should talk about it.
00:31:28.280 Like,
00:31:28.520 and maybe transit
00:31:30.180 is just something
00:31:31.220 we shouldn't do
00:31:31.960 and maybe
00:31:32.600 master planning
00:31:34.400 of our transit,
00:31:35.340 we need to bring
00:31:36.460 some new people
00:31:37.440 into play
00:31:38.220 because we seem
00:31:39.500 to be struggling with it.
00:31:40.460 We seem to be struggling
00:31:41.220 with major roads.
00:31:42.440 We're struggling.
00:31:43.580 So when that happens
00:31:45.020 in any business,
00:31:46.180 when you think
00:31:46.980 your business plan
00:31:47.740 isn't working
00:31:48.340 or your strategies
00:31:50.060 aren't working,
00:31:50.740 you need to expand
00:31:52.480 your web of people
00:31:53.480 to get smarter people,
00:31:54.700 different people,
00:31:55.660 different point of views.
00:31:57.320 On transit,
00:31:58.340 I really do think
00:31:59.180 we need help right now.
00:32:00.400 I think we're in dire straits.
00:32:02.640 My recommendation right now
00:32:04.140 would be to stop.
00:32:05.640 So if I had to say now,
00:32:07.380 like,
00:32:08.160 don't spend any more money,
00:32:10.260 try to get your operating costs
00:32:12.080 because right now,
00:32:13.200 you know,
00:32:13.940 in Toronto,
00:32:14.720 I'm just using it,
00:32:15.580 the Toronto transit.
00:32:17.540 Again,
00:32:18.260 you know,
00:32:18.640 2015 being their peak,
00:32:21.100 their costs
00:32:21.920 were about $2 billion.
00:32:23.200 They're now at $3.2 billion.
00:32:25.260 So, you know,
00:32:25.840 they're in 2024.
00:32:27.940 So their costs
00:32:28.800 have escalated
00:32:29.520 substantially over 50%.
00:32:31.200 So they've kind of
00:32:33.300 lost track of that,
00:32:34.780 but their ridership
00:32:35.700 has gone down.
00:32:36.440 So, you know,
00:32:37.320 in any business,
00:32:38.120 when your volume goes down,
00:32:39.900 your costs should not go up.
00:32:41.380 So, you know,
00:32:42.360 they should be kind of
00:32:43.680 going together,
00:32:44.460 not inverse, right?
00:32:45.660 So the problem is
00:32:47.560 we're struggling with that.
00:32:49.920 So it's a deep dive into it
00:32:51.840 to say,
00:32:52.320 okay,
00:32:53.020 how do we get this back on track?
00:32:54.660 What do we do?
00:32:55.820 And,
00:32:56.360 you know,
00:32:57.840 it's interesting
00:32:58.340 because we keep
00:32:59.560 crime
00:33:00.720 and transit
00:33:01.840 in different categories.
00:33:03.500 So the,
00:33:04.140 you know,
00:33:04.380 the police chief
00:33:05.000 is doing an awesome job
00:33:06.220 here in Toronto.
00:33:08.100 He's sitting there
00:33:08.940 and he's saying,
00:33:09.520 here's,
00:33:09.960 you know,
00:33:10.280 what I'm going to use
00:33:11.140 out of my budget to help.
00:33:13.320 And the transit guy is saying,
00:33:15.000 you know,
00:33:15.180 I need this.
00:33:16.420 But maybe we're at the point
00:33:18.080 where transit guys
00:33:20.400 have their own
00:33:21.220 police force
00:33:23.040 to get credibility
00:33:24.000 back in the system.
00:33:25.640 I'd like to look at it.
00:33:26.940 I think what we need to do now
00:33:28.380 is we need to go back,
00:33:30.080 get some brighter minds
00:33:31.180 into the mix here
00:33:32.800 and start to tell us,
00:33:34.340 like,
00:33:34.620 what we're doing wrong,
00:33:36.000 whether it's the contracts
00:33:37.320 we're signing,
00:33:38.500 the,
00:33:39.820 you know,
00:33:40.280 what agreements
00:33:41.040 we have with people.
00:33:42.620 Something's not working here
00:33:43.840 because it just doesn't work.
00:33:46.440 No.
00:33:46.900 Yeah.
00:33:47.880 Oh,
00:33:48.160 yeah,
00:33:48.580 we definitely need to stop the bleed.
00:33:49.880 I would agree with you on that
00:33:50.900 in regards to,
00:33:52.580 like,
00:33:52.680 where is this mismanagement?
00:33:53.960 Because obviously there is.
00:33:56.020 Yeah.
00:33:56.800 And also,
00:33:57.880 it kind of seems to be
00:33:59.640 a reoccurring narrative,
00:34:02.020 not only,
00:34:02.740 like,
00:34:03.180 in the city,
00:34:03.820 but if you think back
00:34:05.020 to the urban planning
00:34:06.820 for even,
00:34:07.780 like,
00:34:07.900 where our highways went
00:34:09.200 or the major,
00:34:09.920 like,
00:34:10.260 veins or intersections
00:34:11.340 in regards to,
00:34:12.820 like,
00:34:13.540 historical properties
00:34:14.680 that couldn't be touched.
00:34:15.980 So it's like,
00:34:16.860 houses were kept
00:34:17.640 in certain major areas
00:34:19.140 which caused
00:34:19.960 the highways to go
00:34:21.080 a different
00:34:22.680 or not the ideal way,
00:34:24.320 which has led
00:34:25.100 to a lot of traffic today.
00:34:26.220 So same thing with the planning
00:34:28.840 for the subway systems.
00:34:31.000 It was,
00:34:31.300 it's kind of,
00:34:32.180 okay,
00:34:32.320 now we want to build this city.
00:34:34.160 We got a lot of people.
00:34:35.500 Okay,
00:34:35.640 now we got to think
00:34:36.360 about the subway.
00:34:37.520 Now we got to,
00:34:38.400 you know,
00:34:38.680 start to,
00:34:39.560 again,
00:34:39.820 a reactive approach
00:34:42.720 versus a preventative
00:34:44.060 or planning approach.
00:34:45.340 Right.
00:34:45.600 And then taking on,
00:34:47.000 even on your point,
00:34:47.820 Vancouver,
00:34:48.600 they have
00:34:49.460 their own police force
00:34:51.080 in their transit system,
00:34:52.360 which is unique to Canada.
00:34:54.040 So just tying to that
00:34:55.860 and then
00:34:56.500 maybe that's a lesson
00:34:57.620 we need to learn.
00:34:58.820 Yeah.
00:34:59.220 Yeah.
00:34:59.380 Is Vancouver doing well
00:35:00.620 in regards to their
00:35:01.860 crime rates?
00:35:04.600 And from what I read,
00:35:06.200 it's not,
00:35:06.620 it's not great.
00:35:07.540 It's not,
00:35:07.840 maybe not particularly
00:35:08.840 as bad as Toronto,
00:35:09.940 but yeah.
00:35:10.400 Yeah.
00:35:10.880 I think it's,
00:35:11.380 they're all high.
00:35:12.280 They're all across.
00:35:13.040 When we looked at the graph
00:35:13.700 of all those cities,
00:35:15.060 the transit crime
00:35:16.160 is that it's,
00:35:17.340 I don't think there was one
00:35:18.600 that had a low score.
00:35:21.700 So they were all up in the,
00:35:23.280 they had all gone up
00:35:24.240 after COVID
00:35:24.880 and flattened off,
00:35:25.820 but they were pretty much,
00:35:27.220 when you looked at the lines,
00:35:28.300 they all went the same way.
00:35:29.620 So it is a challenge
00:35:31.420 and I think we're seeing it
00:35:32.800 the last week,
00:35:34.700 you know,
00:35:35.060 we've seen a reaction
00:35:36.380 to what's going on.
00:35:39.000 What people need
00:35:39.640 to understand is,
00:35:41.400 and I bring this up
00:35:42.220 on every show,
00:35:44.320 we weren't paying attention
00:35:45.720 before because I think
00:35:46.720 we were all like,
00:35:47.380 okay, transit is just
00:35:48.340 something that's in our life.
00:35:49.560 It's happening.
00:35:50.760 It's subsidized
00:35:51.720 from the government.
00:35:53.420 When we came to this
00:35:54.660 challenge financially
00:35:55.600 for the country
00:35:56.340 and we were all starting
00:35:57.360 to look at it
00:35:57.980 and we're like,
00:35:58.680 we don't have any more money.
00:36:00.540 So now it's,
00:36:01.880 it's one of those things
00:36:02.660 like your own personal budget.
00:36:03.760 When you run out of money,
00:36:04.820 you have to find places
00:36:06.080 to cut,
00:36:07.160 compensate,
00:36:07.460 and move.
00:36:08.340 Transit is one of those.
00:36:10.240 And so the decision now,
00:36:12.340 it's actually a shame
00:36:13.180 because we could have
00:36:13.900 master planned that decision
00:36:15.240 to be a success
00:36:16.220 10 years ago,
00:36:17.440 but we're now at that point
00:36:18.980 where we're going to have
00:36:20.660 to cut,
00:36:21.360 move,
00:36:21.740 and alter some things
00:36:23.000 if we really are serious
00:36:24.880 about transit.
00:36:25.560 If we're not serious
00:36:26.500 about transit
00:36:27.160 and we think,
00:36:28.240 you know,
00:36:29.140 we've reached its potential
00:36:32.100 in the city,
00:36:33.040 then it's time
00:36:34.200 to start a cost-cutting measure
00:36:35.880 to go look at transit
00:36:37.480 and try to bring it back
00:36:38.600 under control
00:36:39.280 a little and say,
00:36:40.500 you know,
00:36:40.920 we're only going to have
00:36:41.940 this level of transit
00:36:43.120 given our ridership
00:36:44.660 is expected to go down
00:36:45.820 over the next 10 years.
00:36:48.160 Yes.
00:36:48.960 So,
00:36:49.940 you know,
00:36:50.480 I know all of you,
00:36:52.440 you know,
00:36:52.820 you have an opinion on this.
00:36:54.240 I saw lots of articles
00:36:55.940 over the last week,
00:36:57.020 so please comment,
00:36:59.740 subscribe,
00:37:00.620 let us know your thoughts.
00:37:02.220 We're going to do
00:37:02.880 a follow-up show on this.
00:37:04.080 We have some people
00:37:04.700 coming in
00:37:05.300 closer to the issue
00:37:07.080 from the city perspective,
00:37:08.960 and we look forward
00:37:11.100 to sharing that with you
00:37:12.100 in the upcoming few shows.