True Patriot Love

00:00:00.000 all right welcome everybody to uh my first crack at this i'm very lucky to have with me today

00:00:10.160 david morrow uh 15 year canadian armed forces veteran of the infantry with a afghanistan tour

00:00:18.160 going back to 2010 is that right david that's right man thank you very much for being here

00:00:24.260 dave's got a really really cool story to tell that he told me a few months ago that for somehow had

00:00:31.900 slipped my radar and i was not aware of i was aware of the grand scheme of what had happened but

00:00:36.500 not at all sort of the minutiae and the details so um if you've got anything to add if there's

00:00:43.560 anything i missed dave on the intro let me know but otherwise um please please inform the audience

00:00:50.040 what you were doing in january 2021 which marks the five-year anniversary this month while the

00:00:56.300 rest of us were figuring out what days the grocery stores were open and what days we were allowed in

00:01:00.340 you were taking it upon yourself to do something um really unique and special and i i'd love to hear

00:01:07.140 you tell the story again please yeah absolutely it's funny that you were so like captured by the

00:01:13.040 story because when i was on the phone you were silent for most of the time i'm like oh this is 0.96

00:01:16.880 it's boring i'm just boring him but in reality you're just like holy shit what are you talking 0.88

00:01:22.460 about and this this was just my life five years ago so i appreciate you having me on your show man 0.74

00:01:29.160 i i like seeing more canadians but also canadian veterans get into the broadcast space because i think

00:01:37.960 it's uh very much needed in our uh in our troubled times these days our stories need to be told so

00:01:44.280 uh thanks for having me on so to fill you guys in yeah january uh 2021 so i'm recently

00:01:54.580 i'm recently separated from my last job i left my teaching career and uh i have a new daughter so

00:02:06.280 that's kind of like the framework of where i'm at i have a brand new company i just started my podcast

00:02:12.420 i just started coaching veterans so i have this tiny little office and for about 10 years so since

00:02:19.020 i came home from afghanistan in 2011 i've been trying to help my interpreter abdul get him and

00:02:24.800 his family to canada and i just assumed like innocent old me there must be some sort of program for

00:02:30.760 interpreters that worked basically the entire war for our country wearing our uniform with our flag and

00:02:37.340 so i started poking around and you know it's a few years and i don't find anything i'm talking to

00:02:42.460 lawyers they're like sure we'll we'll find something for you for like a thousand dollar consultation fee

00:02:46.460 i'm a teacher at the time i got no money i'm like i can't afford that he was tenacious he's always like

00:02:50.880 mr dave how are things any news i really got to get out of here man like it's getting bad i'm like

00:02:56.100 dude i don't know man i i'm i'm just a like i was a sergeant i left as a lieutenant i don't know

00:03:01.980 anybody but he kept at me he kept at me and then he sent me this email he's like hey i found this

00:03:07.340 group on facebook afghan canadian interpreters now he's sent me stuff in the past and there's so many

00:03:13.380 scams out of india and pakistan it's just it's crazy how the even the government canadian government

00:03:20.620 even like a lot someone come out of canada like it's just insane how much they rob uh these these

00:03:25.780 afghans are trying to get out because they're desperate so i'm kind of skeptical i check it out 1.00

00:03:29.620 and i realize huh it's run by a canadian her profile's there so i reach out and she's just a

00:03:38.220 sweet lady who literally works for the federal government and uh so he struck up a conversation 0.98

00:03:44.420 she has like 100 people kind of watching her page and they're all afghans i go hey are you legit like

00:03:50.460 what's going on here she's like oh yeah i help about like one or two families a year trying to get 0.98

00:03:55.540 their paperwork done and get them out of afghanistan like wow that's really noble do you have 1.00

00:03:59.220 any help she's like no just me so we start going back and forth and i write abdul i'm like dude i

00:04:06.040 think this is legit man but it doesn't mean anything he's like i know but times are getting tough man

00:04:11.560 they're they're starting to really put the pressure on the night letters the threats against his family

00:04:17.600 on top of that he's a hazara minority so it's bad and we know the date's coming right it was established 1.00

00:04:25.520 that we were going to be pulling out or we i mean like the americans made it clear we're pulling out

00:04:30.940 right 2021 okay cool so again i just assume canada must have some sort of plan i'm poking around don't

00:04:39.300 hear anything so i get i get involved in these meetings because now it's me and wendy we're just

00:04:46.140 two civilians doing what we think is right and she invites me on this call it's a zoom call

00:04:53.860 she's like oh you should come you'd be part of like our contingent i'm like okay i'm assuming

00:04:59.960 global affairs is going to be there i'm assuming and i'm just i'm like okay i'm just going to take

00:05:04.580 a back seat and see what's going on and then i realize i'm on a zoom call with like the highest

00:05:10.500 level ngos in the united states and the planet generals from germany people that i'm like what

00:05:16.880 like way out of my league in terms of uh security classifications experience and everybody has their

00:05:25.960 say from each country essentially each nato member and then they come around to canada and it's just

00:05:30.680 wendy and me we have no official titles we're not representing the government we're just volunteers

00:05:35.600 and i realized this is way bigger than i thought it was and we don't have a response they obviously

00:05:44.160 must have reached out to somebody in canada and they can only find us so i take a screenshot i send

00:05:50.860 it to my buddy from my unit who's a reporter at global and he goes wait what i'm like yeah and he's

00:05:57.840 been to afghanistan a bunch of times to report on it so he's like dave can we get on the phone and

00:06:01.240 then that just started snowballing i got on global news did a spot there then cbc picked it up and

00:06:07.360 then it just started snowballing and snowballing and snowballing before you know it i'm got phone

00:06:12.600 calls like coming out my ass emails you name it so that's kind of how everything got started 0.83

00:06:18.360 that's i i'm just i'm still my the reason reason i was silent on the phone calls the same reason i'm 0.97

00:06:26.240 silent now i i just i want to drink this all in and it really people seriously kind of need to

00:06:33.460 remember what was 2021 like you know what i mean it was biden had just kind of been sworn in um

00:06:39.540 january 6th i guess had happened maybe a few weeks prior there was nobody that i knew was focused on

00:06:46.820 anything like this at all everyone was kind of worried about saving themselves and

00:06:51.000 like this was kind of the height of still covet hysteria in ottawa where i was at ground zero

00:06:56.260 um so hearing you tell this story of where you were and where your headspace was at

00:07:02.300 kind of in this sort of five-year anniversary that we're in now is is just amazing because i

00:07:07.240 i i had been i was in the military full-time you know what i mean working in um i guess i was in

00:07:14.060 forced development still uh trying to end in procurement or whatever like i had zero

00:07:19.140 idea that the u.s was spooling this exit strategy up outside of the very basic level 35 000 foot view

00:07:28.080 information that was released in kind of legacy media or through military release channel type

00:07:34.140 thing can for gens and stuff like that um but you were like talking to people you were sitting in

00:07:40.760 meetings with generals and colonels and all these high-ranking media folks that were just pulling this

00:07:45.600 stuff up and it's uh it's really cool to hear so so is it in terms of time frame are we still in

00:07:51.980 january when this is going on or is it now moved into is it in february like where are we yeah the

00:07:57.100 meeting i believe was in march okay so we fast forwarded a couple months yeah fast forward a couple

00:08:01.540 months because i believe we only really connected in january me and wendy that is in january beginning

00:08:07.540 february i believe was around that time frame and it was just a bunch of emails going back and forth a

00:08:13.140 few messenger conversations nothing too crazy i put i put them in touch abdul and who's my interpreter

00:08:19.580 and wendy and yeah you mentioned like the american response well it wasn't an official american response

00:08:25.860 it was the ngos so i don't know how much they had uh in terms of connection were they at arm's length

00:08:32.720 likely they were from the american government but the american government's response was a disaster

00:08:37.260 they clearly didn't have a clear plan so because everybody was waiting for the plan

00:08:43.840 they didn't know what exactly to do so it's kind of every man for himself and i got that sense when i

00:08:49.640 was on the call nobody really knew what the plan was so every ngo was kind of doing their best to

00:08:53.880 get their people out whatever that meant and there was very few official government officials so

00:09:00.820 that being said canada had like the worst presence

00:09:04.940 with just me and wendy being there as just volunteers everybody else was officially part of some

00:09:10.900 larger organization that's well funded that was doing their best to get their

00:09:14.980 people out without any real high level strategy until we start moving closer to

00:09:21.660 the projected pullout date which was supposed to be september 11th right and i'm looking at

00:09:30.820 intel reports like open source stuff i'm talking to afghans on the ground they're saying there's no

00:09:36.980 way that we're holding out to september i'm talking to buddies of mine at cansoft and they've got like a

00:09:43.140 betting pool they're like when's kabul going to fall and they're like dude this this thing is done by july

00:09:49.860 and all everybody's like no bro you don't know what you're talking about it's going to be september it's

00:09:55.860 like no man like they're just going to fold it's going to be over and it's going to happen within

00:10:01.940 days and lo and behold that's what happened so if we backpedal a little bit the the tempo starts to

00:10:08.740 pick up a little bit this isn't my main focus i'm trying to grow a small online coaching company and

00:10:14.220 podcast that's that's my main focus i was even actually another wrinkle i was literally working for

00:10:20.860 the federal government at this time too i was working at the calf transition group i was uh in

00:10:26.540 charge of creating the uh training package for guys leaving guys and gals leaving the calf as a

00:10:34.140 civilian yeah correct i've been out for a few years at this point and by training you're referring to

00:10:39.580 sort of fitness training no no no uh i was the lead instructional design guy for building this i don't

00:10:46.700 even know what got released man that's a whole other podcast we were building a powerpoint

00:10:51.100 present they were building a powerpoint presentation like i don't want to make it sound like this

00:10:54.860 sexy like it was just a huge slide deck of which we outsourced to a consulting company of course

00:11:01.980 and i was just there to kind of guide the curriculum because okay i was a reservist i was you know 15 years

00:11:10.780 in afghan vet and i have a master's in education so i kind of like was able to guide where they were going

00:11:15.980 with things that being said this started taking up by this i mean the withdrawal and trying to help our

00:11:24.780 afghan allies get out of the country this started taking up way way more time than i expected and i

00:11:31.980 had like an op board kind of behind me and so i do podcasts like this and i before i like i had to take

00:11:39.260 down my whole like ops planning board and like throw it off to the side and then have my like regular

00:11:43.980 background because it was it was crazy i had maps of like where guys were i was essentially

00:11:52.460 coordinating this big effort because as soon as i got on cbc uh the current and i had a conversation

00:12:00.940 with abdul in afghanistan people then realized oh and this was the summer this is like june i think of

00:12:09.020 2021 or maybe may 2021 they were like oh my god this is real i'm like yeah so i'm getting i'm getting

00:12:16.060 emails from former you know high-ranking officials in uh the cansoft world hey dave what do you need

00:12:23.500 i'm like uh i don't know i don't even know who you are and then i get emails from interpreters that

00:12:28.780 work with some of the task force generals that lit a bunch of guys up i go well i'm pretty sure

00:12:34.380 this interpreter because his english is flawless he sent me all of his paperwork i don't know i'm not

00:12:40.300 an ink guy but this looks legit if his name corroborates like with who he's saying is within

00:12:46.940 like 15 minutes i now have generals like giving me a call we're doing uh skype calls i'm literally

00:12:54.300 coaching my kids soccer team man i'm trying to coach soccer and then i've got like every task force

00:13:00.220 commander ngos i've got uh uh freaking was it j not j tack but uh uh what's the name of the

00:13:07.740 organization that kind of coordinates everything um here in canada uh j something oh um i've been

00:13:14.700 out for j tick is it not j tick either way i i've got it'll come to me i i know what you're talking

00:13:21.020 about i used to see their header on on briefings like joint task force command or or whatever you

00:13:25.420 know like i'm like man i don't have security clearance anymore but i'm how am i running

00:13:31.100 this meeting i'm like i'm like uh hello general so-and-so hello joe welcome to the meeting okay

00:13:35.180 yeah today we're working and they're like literally what's they're asking what's the plan and it's me

00:13:40.380 and wendy and then we we put this other uh this team together uh i said it was like yeah i remember

00:13:46.540 that show a guy girl in the pizza place back in the day it was in the 90s uh my buddies asked like dude

00:13:52.220 who's in charge who's in charge of this like afghan pullout uh mission and i'm like me wendy and a

00:13:57.500 guy named russ and like he was like our data guy he was like making spreadsheets and he was great

00:14:03.980 like that's what he did on the civilian side and he was a reservist too combine it with your your

00:14:09.020 ops board that looks like pepe sylvia in the back with red threads going everywhere i don't know what

00:14:14.540 i'm doing i'm like ah like i i'm trying to like put together all of this like open source intel and

00:14:20.300 like guys writing me on whatsapp and general is sending me emails and then all of a sudden i start

00:14:25.340 getting emails and then calls from this guy he's he's like my name is dave i'm like okay i think

00:14:31.980 they were are you man he's like i'm in kabul i'm like what do you mean you're in kabul he's like i live

00:14:36.300 here i'm like what is going on what do you mean you live in kabul he's like yeah i've lived here for

00:14:43.180 years uh and he was a former uh member of i think jtf back in the day so like he has a shop there

00:14:51.740 he just lives there he's like what do you what do you need i'm like i don't know i mean every time

00:14:56.140 guy asks what what i need i'm like i don't really know man this is like way above my pay grade they're

00:15:00.780 like well you're the guy on the ground i'm like well we need like this that and the other essentially

00:15:04.700 we just need like eyes on the ground he's like got it i'll be that guy so then everybody honey goes off

00:15:10.460 in their own direction and then that's when global affairs gets involved i'm like okay finally

00:15:17.580 somebody's lit up we've been collecting names on a list like wendy has this incredible list

00:15:23.340 and russ is compiling it and we're reaching out to every member of the forces essentially

00:15:30.060 with like this big outreach campaign i did a facebook post that blew up it is my best facebook post

00:15:35.180 ever i did a video i'm like this is where canadians need to shine we need your help right now we need to

00:15:39.980 get our brothers and sisters out of afghanistan who served with us please help this is where you 1.00

00:15:44.780 go right and then just emails just came in like like oh i can't handle all this so it's you know

00:15:52.060 guys that have been deployed that had interpreters are like i need to get my job i've been trying for

00:15:55.100 and then we realized the scope of this problem is huge there's hundreds if not thousands of

00:16:02.460 interpreters that had a relationship with us over like what we were there 15 years or 10 years plus

00:16:08.860 it it's the scope was way too big for us to handle the canadian forces got involved um they were

00:16:15.340 helping kind of vet those lists but as you know whenever you make a list like you got to send it

00:16:19.900 back for like five different and then there's something missing on the list and it's just a

00:16:23.820 disaster so like we have the like one list that's like the source of truth but then that would get

00:16:29.100 corrupted and so it was just a a wacky back and forth and then once the government of what was the

00:16:34.540 global affairs canada got involved then the wheels fell off because did you know sorry to interrupt

00:16:38.940 like roughly where are we in the time frame when we're like in june we're like june getting close to

00:16:43.820 like it's the summer now the stress really started to like ramp up obviously like everything collapsed

00:16:49.820 in august so the period from june to august was cuckoo bananas the amount of back and forth and so

00:16:58.380 you're trying to coordinate with and don't forget we're in covid so nobody's in an office so there's

00:17:04.140 nobody going in to be like hey what the is going on like we need to get in the room together it's

00:17:08.300 like all zoom rooms and i don't know the faces of anybody so it's all kind of nebulous so nothing

00:17:14.780 everything's like there's like people doing the same thing over and over and over again who's in charge

00:17:19.980 nobody knows the the the operational control essentially went to gas which didn't make any sense

00:17:26.780 because they're not an operational department they're a bunch of bureaucrats that like write

00:17:31.260 policy on like trade and foreign relations they don't know anything about tactical on the ground

00:17:38.140 with trying to exfil the interpreters that's that's not their job they don't know that's not the

00:17:44.620 like the americans they know that they know who to talk we have zero capacity when i talk about zero

00:17:50.140 capacity if you're stuck somewhere good luck man like like canada's not coming to save you

00:17:55.980 so we don't know what to do and they're sending us these uh these orders right so the most one of

00:18:03.660 the craziest days that i had during this entire like apart from the actual follicable they send out

00:18:10.620 this order they go okay we know everybody that's on this list they're all getting an email with the 0.97

00:18:17.660 orders in priority of what they need to do in order to make their claim to get their ass on the plane 0.67

00:18:23.020 because we've got flights like ripping out in like a month like okay finally awesome

00:18:29.020 they said sorry sorry by they you mean the folks who are needing an evac and yeah exactly so that

00:18:35.180 includes them and their family and and like afghanistan it's it's hard man because some they

00:18:42.060 don't have papers they you know it's it's a third world country so they don't have access to the 1.00

00:18:48.220 amenities that we do like sometimes electricity the internet you know like a printer they send it

00:18:55.980 it creates massive deltas of how do we get information to people who may not even have

00:19:01.340 running water or electricity or the means to receive data information how do we communicate with them it

00:19:07.900 creates a whole host of logistical and sort of pragmatic challenges on the ground that you're still

00:19:14.140 dealing with at a boots on the ground grassroots level um it's amazing sorry i'm just trying to

00:19:20.220 help everybody yeah no you're absolutely right i'm repeating for myself here as well when you send an

00:19:25.820 email to any one of us and there's a few like line items and typically if you're dealing with the

00:19:31.420 government they might send a pdf file pdf file right i have trouble opening a pdf file on my mac

00:19:36.300 from the government how do you think an afghan is going to respond to these pdf files that likely won't

00:19:43.980 open on their phone because that's really all they have meanwhile the taliban are cutting intermittently 0.96

00:19:50.300 the internet they're cutting the electricity intermittently they don't have what we have

00:19:55.420 but they sent this email that required them to print like this 15 page form they had to fill it out by hand

00:20:03.180 scan it send it back to the freaking government and so dude i i saw pictures i wish i still had them

00:20:11.740 of these lineups because there's like one guy in town like you know we're talking kabul kandahar

00:20:18.300 some of the little outlying cities like they had like one like the equivalent of like a kinkos right 0.99

00:20:24.060 like it was like haji ramatula right who just had that and like a print lined up lined up for hundreds of

00:20:31.340 meters you look all these and so it's like oh that creates a great scenario the taliban just needs to go

00:20:36.460 oh what are you guys all lined up here for oh you're trying to get your paperwork done why are you

00:20:40.780 trying to get your paperwork done right like what for it just yeah like yeah oh we're just trying to

00:20:45.580 you know trying to get a job yeah like no so it was just pure chaos and they gave a timeline like it

00:20:51.340 has to be done it was something ridiculous like they gave it they sent the email to them like a monday

00:20:55.660 or tuesday and it was like by thursday or friday it has to be done and completely submitted with like

00:21:00.780 everything properly filled out for us to consider your application well what do you think that does

00:21:06.060 to an afghan who's desperate to leave with his family like if we were desperate to leave with our

00:21:10.220 family thinking that everybody's going to get murdered or worse what would you do if you'd freak

00:21:15.580 the out you'd be like all right well i got to get this one piece of paperwork done this my life

00:21:20.780 depends on it so they freaked out obviously so i spent 24 hours working on my entire like uh

00:21:30.380 interpreters family's paperwork i was like i got you bro like whenever you can get on whatsapp i'm 0.67

00:21:36.940 working on it as we speak i didn't sleep man i because you got big ass families man because it 0.88

00:21:41.340 was him his dad his mom all his sisters all his brothers and then you know like he speaks english

00:21:46.940 pretty well but there's always some kind of break at some point and then he's like oh did you get my my

00:21:52.140 my sister i was like yeah i got your sister he's like no this sister i'm like you said you only had

00:21:56.220 one sister he's like no i have two sisters i'm like he's like yeah but it was from another marriage

00:22:00.860 or i was like oh my god i was like dude you gotta you gotta be clear like i get it all in one email

00:22:05.340 like these these names all look the same so we banged out all that paperwork and we were just like

00:22:11.900 like knife handed like the government to be like you can't expect this to be the official process and

00:22:18.860 then they backed off and then they said oh it's okay it's okay it was actually mentioned in in national

00:22:23.020 news how ridiculous it was because they were that that was the first major bungle and it destroyed

00:22:28.060 the trust between the canadian government and the afghans that were trying to get out because 1.00

00:22:34.780 as soon as they saw like oh well like if they say well this thing and then they don't really mean it

00:22:40.060 then how do we know whatever they send is legit from now on and that led us to this is the big

00:22:47.500 explosive thing man so my interpreter's family got golden visas and by what i mean golden visas i mean

00:22:57.420 they got official visas from the government of canada signed sealed and delivered by the government

00:23:05.980 legitimately from their email address saying congratulations this is your visa this is your

00:23:12.220 your ticket out of afghanistan this is uh official documentation that says you are canadian i've

00:23:20.380 never seen that before in my life this grants you the privilege of being canadian it was like

00:23:26.220 automatic citizenship and i said what the hell is this like is this a scam nope came from the official

00:23:32.940 canadian email address i still have those emails i couldn't believe it so i said oh my god get your 0.99

00:23:38.540 ass on a plane immediately you're you're like me come home no they couldn't because something and 0.98

00:23:45.500 this is where i don't have the investigative skills to uh to go a little deeper on this but something

00:23:50.860 is rotten in the state of denmark in this case canada that stinks way higher than some top that we

00:23:56.940 have here politically something was going on with this whole afghan uh withdrawal that i don't have the

00:24:04.220 capacity to investigate but it didn't take much to realize something fishy was going on here

00:24:09.500 and i just can't put my finger on it and unfortunately there hasn't been much investigation

00:24:13.420 into this and this isn't like conspiratorial stuff this is just clear as mud like you why are you 0.99

00:24:19.020 sending and they weren't the only family there's a whole bunch that got these emails with official 0.85

00:24:22.700 documentation saying that they're canadian get their ass over here but they weren't allowed to come 0.94

00:24:26.380 and for whatever reason afghans were blocked by whoever it was from coming to canada but we have this 0.96

00:24:33.980 wave of migration with people that had no connection to canada whatsoever so something

00:24:39.340 weird went on there and uh there's a whole bunch of other corruption that was going on behind the

00:24:43.660 scenes which i wasn't aware of but that all led essentially to the the fall of kabul so i guess that

00:24:49.020 was one big chunk there that uh we now we're kind of like in july at this point before the actual fall

00:24:56.220 so uh i'll just jump in real quick so for those who are listening um i would urge that you go online

00:25:02.540 and read a little bit about what dave is talking about with the connection of the mnd at the time

00:25:09.020 sajan and the mysterious um we'll call it linked to afghan seeks receiving priority for evacuation so all

00:25:18.620 the insane stuff that dave is talking about doing spooling all this up in the background you know what

00:25:23.100 i mean dealing with these ngos the americans the europeans uh like canada's sort of lack of ability 0.98

00:25:30.700 to coherently facilitate all this stuff which you know what i mean allowed him and other brave bold

00:25:36.860 people to step in and and get things done while that was going on the senior senior level of the

00:25:42.860 federal leadership of canada was doing some shady stuff in the background that uh dave just spoke about

00:25:48.380 and i would i would urge anyone who has any interest in this to go and check it out for yourself

00:25:52.860 i'm not trying to you know what i mean paint a picture here but take a look at what he's talking

00:25:56.620 about and maybe come to your own conclusions because it is sort of baffling what went on and how there's

00:26:01.420 been zero consequences or uh any uh like i'm talking not even people didn't not only did people not lose

00:26:10.860 their jaws but nobody went to jail and it's it's kind of mind-bending to to think of how this all went

00:26:16.780 on in sort of broad daylight in the middle of this pandemonium when the folks that dave is talking

00:26:21.420 about needing uh this egress this exfil as badly as they did sort of being ignored and sort of left

00:26:28.380 to their own devices to battle this sort of unnecessary admin but man really really interesting

00:26:34.940 part of the story i would urge people to go and do a little bit of digging make you come up with your

00:26:38.700 own you know what i mean ideas of what went on there and uh maybe leave a comment in the section if uh

00:26:43.660 if you come up with something but um we'll get back to you now so it's now july of or it's now

00:26:50.460 july 2021 uh like this is about to go for lack of a better term full retard here with the u.s withdrawal 0.80

00:26:58.220 and uh your your interpreter and many members of his family have received this documentation but

00:27:03.820 they're still having hurdles somehow to to move forward what happens now yeah so during this whole

00:27:11.180 process now because everybody's running around with their hair on fire i'm on the news here in canada

00:27:18.780 every week sometimes two three times a day in english and french on all the major news broadcasts i'm in

00:27:25.340 the paper i was featured in the new york times the americans started like picking up on this story

00:27:31.340 because they were having similar problems too how could they screw this up so badly

00:27:34.460 so as i'm doing that i'm still doing the the stuff behind the scenes now i've taken on the role as

00:27:40.860 the patho if you want to call it for our little organization to get the word out and now it's just

00:27:48.780 the amount of intake from afghans is really picking up and then it gets harder to suss out the legitimate 1.00

00:27:55.660 ones from the the ones that are so as we're trying to you know put that together the government starts

00:28:03.740 coming up with policy but as you know they call an election right and we're saying no please don't

00:28:09.660 like there's no need for you to call an election right now this is one of the largest geopolitical

00:28:14.940 disasters that is slow walking like to your door just push it off man like just you make a common

00:28:22.700 sense move here because the way i see it you can't you can't ever expect us to go into another war

00:28:29.180 zone not on our soil and ask for help from an ally after what we're doing after what we did how are you

00:28:36.780 going to expect to get somebody to say yeah i'll i'll work with the canadians when you're like yeah

00:28:40.860 well after we're gone like you're just going to die because the country's just going to fall back to

00:28:45.420 where it was and we don't care that you actually wore the uniform so that was the way i looked at it we

00:28:50.300 had a moral responsibility to help these guys get out the government didn't see it that way

00:28:55.340 and so we're waiting for these big announcements right and you can you can look at you know the

00:29:00.140 timeline here online we're expecting this big announcement from minister mendicino about okay

00:29:06.220 this is our plan this is how many people we're going to get out this is you know flight one flight

00:29:11.420 two flight he comes out with this bonkers statement that relates to the lgbtq community in afghanistan and

00:29:21.740 women's rights and we went what no dude like what are you talking about okay maybe some of them are

00:29:28.780 lgbtq but this isn't the this isn't the this isn't the play here the play is the people that work with us

00:29:36.060 who do include women and children need to get out that's it what are you talking about it was like

00:29:41.500 i lived in bizarro world i was watching it live and freaking out i'm like this is the response from

00:29:46.700 the government are you serious and he he knew what was going on he was the the dac minister at the time

00:29:53.900 so that being said that's when like i mentioned to you uh before we went live here like that's when i

00:30:00.140 became radicalized like that was my moment i was like oh i still had with you know that my military

00:30:06.300 experience being a veteran all that stuff i still had this little bit of me that still believed that

00:30:12.860 our government was virtuous and had some amount of dignity and morality left in it i realized then no

00:30:20.540 there isn't any it doesn't exist so now what i guess it's just us like we can't rely on them i

00:30:27.740 totally gave up on them that they were now completely useless so now we're getting really

00:30:33.740 close to august uh my daughter's birthday was august 16th is august 16th that was her second birthday

00:30:41.100 party and we're getting these insane orders from uh global affairs to the tune of okay we're emailing

00:30:54.380 everybody all the afghans on this list we've got an exfil plan but we got to get them into h kaya 1.00

00:31:01.100 uh harmy kazai international airport in kabul we don't really have anybody on the ground because our

00:31:07.980 entire diplomatic corps just peaced out they the the the literal ambassador got on a plane like the

00:31:16.220 first guy like you know like no man left behind that doesn't apply for them it's me me me and my staff

00:31:21.340 let's go get out of here so the first flights that came home from canada were not afghan nationals or or 0.98

00:31:28.380 or afghan uh interpreters it was like it was staff from canada it was so embarrassing the people that

00:31:36.860 could have helped facilitate this entire process if they were still there the british ambassador he

00:31:41.740 understood he understood the play he knew what he had to do he was there like rubber stamping himself

00:31:47.820 while the taliban's like he's like no he's like i'm a br he probably had like a he probably had

00:31:53.580 like a like a freaking tie on with like his like you know cane and like a like a bowler hat on like

00:31:58.940 he's like no fully empire you know like typical brit canadians gone first sign of danger gone so

00:32:06.220 there was nobody for these afghans to go and talk to essentially because that was the point of the 1.00

00:32:11.980 foreign ministry essentially or the you know global affairs is to be that last line of yeah this

00:32:17.340 place sucks we've been here fighting a war forever but you know what we still want to get you out but 0.93

00:32:23.900 no the the message was you're on your own so they sent i remember this so well they sent this crazy 0.96

00:32:31.100 email and i believe it went out by whatsapp as well i'm sorry i'm giving i haven't turned that setting

00:32:36.700 off i'm giving thumbs up on your broadcast to report to this gas station right and bring a red

00:32:45.900 anything handkerchief piece of clothing to signify

00:32:51.660 to your transport that you are a canadian interpreter to get you on the bus to drive you to

00:32:58.220 the airport well tactically that makes absolutely no sense you're identifying everybody that's an 0.97

00:33:05.580 interpreter that's an enemy of the taliban so you got all these afghans that are desperate like yeah 1.00

00:33:10.540 whatever if that's what they say that's what we'll do but obviously the plans are falling apart within

00:33:16.540 hours of them being created because there's nobody on the ground that has any tactical experience like

00:33:21.420 we don't have the military on the ground they sent cans off but they weren't allowed to leave the wire

00:33:27.180 so who do you have coordinating essentially nobody so it's me on whatsapp and i have an interpreter who's

00:33:34.540 not abdul is another guy he's like sir i'm here he's taking pictures he's like i'm at the gas

00:33:38.140 station where is everybody i'm like dude get the hell away from there like now do not stay there 0.92

00:33:43.020 he's like why i'm like dude you guys are all targets get out of there he's like okay where

00:33:45.980 do i go next i'm like somewhere safe i don't know where that is but get the away from there

00:33:50.140 and then they're like okay no no next next exfil spot is this hotel that's close to the airport 0.97

00:33:55.980 bring your handkerchiefs and we're like stop telling them to bring a goddamn handkerchief if you 0.91

00:34:00.060 can't figure this out don't tell them to go anywhere and congregate because obviously this is going 0.98

00:34:03.980 to be intercepted these are not secure columns i don't know who's in this whatsapp group there's

00:34:08.940 likely some freaking tb guy in here i don't know and then tb taliban yeah taliban yeah exactly like

00:34:16.700 i we have this whatsapp group and who knows who's in it right it's just uh folks that we think are on

00:34:23.100 our side but they could be on our side but also taking a cut from the taliban if they get enough money

00:34:27.340 like that's the way it goes down over there and since we have no eyes and ears on the ground the only

00:34:31.900 guy we have is canadian dave that guy honestly he needs the order of canada because that guy did

00:34:38.300 so much for us because he freely roamed and he's been there so long he is not a target sorry uh just

00:34:49.020 to clarify canadian dave is a is a handle or how do people find this well his name's dave his name's

00:34:55.020 dave he's been in all the like he was just captured not too long ago because he went back to

00:34:59.740 kabul and they're like oh no like former canadian armed forces member captured by the taliban and

00:35:03.820 i'm like nah he's fine they're just they're just having a conversation gladiators over there fixing

00:35:11.020 like it's just he he lives there so he's he under he understands how that place works i don't know how

00:35:16.860 it works like that but he was able to uh broker uh some ability to get people in and out and he was able

00:35:24.060 to travel in and out of the gate so he was the only guy that we could really trust with any kind

00:35:29.180 of information to get uh interpreters in and out of the gate and uh so now we're getting closer and

00:35:35.180 closer to that last day where uh things really went sideways we had the suicide attack right that killed

00:35:42.140 13 american soldiers we were getting live intel that get the hell away from the ditches around the

00:35:48.780 airport we know and this is the crazy thing why am i getting this intel i have no security clearance

00:35:55.980 how am i getting it why am i getting it is it massive massive failure of the entire system that

00:36:03.180 you know civilian dave here is getting like live essay on whatsapp that's faster than what's going on

00:36:10.220 at the cath or global affairs and we know that there's an attack imminent it's like oh so we're

00:36:16.700 texting our guy like i'm literally i'm like guys get the away from the airport right now and uh yeah

00:36:22.060 so uh abdul he wasn't there because he actually got a flight out with the british believe it or not

00:36:28.860 him and his immediate family he's like hey mr dave like do i go i'm like is the plane spooled up he's

00:36:35.580 like yeah they said be here in like three hours we're leaving i was like go now he's like but i want

00:36:39.740 to go to canada i'm like i don't care man get your family safe so he got to he got to the uk and they

00:36:44.460 were legit gone like that's it canada like you still would have been there and probably likely

00:36:49.820 worse i had one more interpreter that i worked with he's the last guy on the ground his story is

00:36:54.700 a movie by the way if we can ever get him he's in ottawa right now incredible story i don't know how

00:37:00.060 he survived but he just didn't give up so he's feeding real-time data pictures like he was sending

00:37:07.980 pictures live of like the suicide attack he was freaking there man it was a nightmare it was a

00:37:13.980 nightmare and like that was just like the most gut-wrenching thing because we knew this was

00:37:19.340 going to happen we we all knew this was going to happen you can't run this operation the way you're

00:37:25.100 doing it and not expect something horrific to happen i know the americans have done their uh

00:37:29.900 investigation at the congressional level canada hasn't done anything we haven't had a single hearing

00:37:35.500 on any of this stuff and it's a shame man and that eventually led to this is another crazy story i've got

00:37:42.780 a buddy uh he used to be a uh globe master pilot he's uh texting me on signal he's like bro i'm in 0.93

00:37:51.500 kabul i'm like oh what the fuck like what do you mean you're in we're in a group chat right 0.90

00:37:56.060 he's like i'm in kabul like oh what the fuck he's like dude i'm on the tarmac i got people in the back 0.99

00:38:02.300 i have no idea who i'm flying out of here there's nobody in the towers and there's fucking air traffic 0.99

00:38:08.700 everywhere i'm flying blind wish me luck i was like what the fuck it's like why are you telling me 0.98

00:38:15.580 he's like i don't know who else to talk to dude oh my god i don't have any comms i'm just here 0.97

00:38:22.300 i'm i'm assuming everybody in my plane is legit not going to blow it up i'm taking off i'm wheels up

00:38:28.780 so so this is a canadian this is a canadian air force pilot and a canadian air force yes we had

00:38:36.620 the three uh three two or three uh globe masters show up it was the c13s where i can't remember the

00:38:43.660 terminology anymore yeah i think so anyway so yeah he landed and uh yeah that was our response right

00:38:51.980 the americans essentially had like an air bridge at one point like they were really getting guys out

00:38:57.340 we i believe had two or three flights and that was it there was nobody else so we got a handful of

00:39:04.140 people out and so the the time frame um now with this latest one of this pilot messaging you would

00:39:11.420 be like we're fully that's like august no we're in august we're in august man it's it's like it's

00:39:16.940 afghans holding on to the yeah afghans holding on to the landing gear following off the plane that's 0.64

00:39:21.580 that's what everybody was seeing back here um i was i was on ranges every day for 12 plus hours

00:39:28.140 a day and some of our staff had to take off in the middle of it for obvious reasons so

00:39:32.220 i i was not tracking any of this at all and i just kind of want to bring it back to where we started

00:39:36.620 there where most people watching this have no idea outside of the videos of the people hanging on to

00:39:42.540 the fuselage or the landing gear or the crazy stuff that people were like oh my god i'll do i'll risk

00:39:48.700 falling off this plane or getting crushed by the hydraulic gear to get out of this place meanwhile

00:39:53.100 you're getting texts from pilots as people are filtering into this plane coming from who knows

00:39:58.620 where and like luckily this pilot has the balls and stoicism to say okay well if they make it on

00:40:04.060 this plane like i'm helping them get out of here kind of thing so so kudos to that guy and there's

00:40:08.780 we could do it's holy cow it's already been 40 minutes and i feel like we could do

00:40:14.140 another three or four based on just the side quests of the other people that you're talking

00:40:18.460 about here because 100 and again like this is easily one of the coolest and most interesting

00:40:24.380 stories of anyone's told me that i've had the pleasure of listening to whether it was a

00:40:30.300 currently serving person you know what i mean telling me their war story from whatever a veteran

00:40:33.980 or what but like this is literally just a grassroots movement of people who were sort of paying attention

00:40:38.940 and not being selfish in a time when literally like the world kind of fell apart and like you

00:40:44.460 mentioned bizarro world and that's where we were for the better part of two years but you still had

00:40:48.940 the you still had the focus and the mindset and the sort of coherent pragmatic planning ability to

00:40:55.260 sort of put this in motion even though you were kind of flying by the seat of your pants but that's

00:40:58.940 that's what makes this story so good in my opinion is that you were you left as a as a jack as a

00:41:04.540 master corporal if i no i retired as an lt i commission oh that's right yeah i commissioned

00:41:10.060 from the ranks i was a senior nco and then i commissioned from the ranks my apologies um i i

00:41:15.100 did know that but that's fine my my rank no longer holds any any weight outside of of canada anyway so

00:41:21.020 it's it's it's really only canadian thing oh would you leave us lt and then you get that like lt yeah

00:41:26.380 yeah but i was in as a surgeon yeah yeah exactly and if you if you if you if i had said oh a retired

00:41:35.420 sergeant or master corporal had pulled this off a lot of people that are kind of in the know would

00:41:38.940 say yeah that checks out canada's got some really switched on uh junior and senior ncos if you say

00:41:43.420 you did it as a lieutenant people are like yikes how is this yeah how is this possible as a direct

00:41:49.260 entry guy i can yeah you know in all honestly a lot like like wendy long deserves

00:41:56.940 some formal recognition with one of the highest levels of civilian like accomplishment i i can't

00:42:05.260 see how she doesn't like that like her effort and she continued up until very recently right like

00:42:11.340 there's been spin-offs from her organization that have helped so many more afghans man it's crazy

00:42:18.460 because the other story is after the fact there was nothing set up for these afghans man they just

00:42:23.900 showed up there was there was no plan when i talk about no plan there's no plan they're just

00:42:28.780 bringing them over here putting them in a hotel being like all right well i guess we'll figure it

00:42:32.460 out there was no idea of what to do with them and her organization was a godsend man because

00:42:37.500 as small as they were they were able to do a lot of really good work so she deserves the highest

00:42:41.980 recognition for this because she was really the one at the highest level kind of doing all of that like

00:42:46.460 uh politicking and making sure things uh got done properly because she had all the 0.98

00:42:50.460 she had all the information she was the one that everybody had to go to to access the list and to

00:42:56.540 make sure people were vetted and yeah it was really thanks to her because if it wasn't for her this

00:43:01.420 wouldn't have gone off the ground because i wouldn't have found her and we wouldn't have been able to

00:43:05.020 create like a smaller organization that had an impact because the little thing that i knew was like

00:43:10.140 i could do a little bit of social media she didn't do this she couldn't do the social media reach so 1.00

00:43:14.300 we complemented each other well so a big shout out to to wendy for for getting this up off the ground

00:43:19.020 and helping so many afghans out of afghanistan because it was really her effort that that made

00:43:22.300 that happen that's amazing dude amazing this this lady i've never met her i don't think i've spoken 0.90

00:43:28.540 to her but yeah kudos to her kudos to you such a such a cool story i love listening to it selfishly i

00:43:35.100 think i did this maybe just for me hopefully hopefully other people get a kick out of it too are you able to

00:43:40.140 share uh without any unnecessary or uh security breaching detail how abdul and his family are

00:43:48.780 doing now like i don't even know where they are that doesn't matter yeah yeah yeah well how are

00:43:52.540 they doing so here's the crazy thing man so he ended up in the uk and uh i haven't checked in for a

00:43:59.180 while i'll be honest that's uh that's on me i should i should do more check-ins last time i i talked to

00:44:03.980 him he was trying to get himself and his immediate family over to canada because his dad his

00:44:09.980 mom all his brothers sisters they all landed in ontario and i went we broke bread together it was

00:44:17.500 it was surreal man i brought my son like it was emotional man it was emotional and uh yeah we had

00:44:22.700 an afghan dinner like it was amazing and i was like man i can't believe like i never met any of these

00:44:27.100 people before my life right so uh it was just really cool to see that well you know the the mission

00:44:33.740 at the meta level was a complete and utter disaster but on the personal level there was his family that

00:44:40.540 i could see and touch and hug and eat a meal with that is now able to like start new and a fresh and

00:44:47.980 fresh here in canada and then same with our other interpreter uh you know he's got to start new in

00:44:54.540 ottawa and uh with his family and so like they are the canadian dream man like they're just grinding

00:45:01.900 working their asses off going to school it's just cool to see man and like that was no longer a

00:45:07.580 possibility in afghanistan and abdul's family man i talk about side quest they were stuck in pakistan for

00:45:14.140 two years illegally that was a freaking nightmare man that was that was bad because they they had to 0.81

00:45:21.100 hot they had to essentially stay inside for almost two years they they they had to go for like small

00:45:25.100 little things they had some friends that got them stuff to to bring to the because if the police found

00:45:29.100 them they were immediately deported back to afghanistan and that was just a death sentence right so

00:45:35.260 these afghans man the ones that made it over here the ones that were interpreters families were they

00:45:40.540 all have a story they all have an incredible story so yeah they we talk about side quests and like

00:45:45.500 just like movie ready stories these guys have movie ready stories it's just nobody's telling them and

00:45:51.660 that's the unfortunate thing here about canada and i think this whole ordeal it's best that it's kept

00:45:57.100 like kind of swept under the rug because it's an embarrassment because of the lack of i guess moral

00:46:02.780 impetus to do something was just not there from a national level that it was very selfish in terms of

00:46:09.260 what the priority was it was elections me me me my party you know it wasn't hey we got to do

00:46:15.420 something that's good for humanity here and uh i think that's what they i think that's what the uh

00:46:20.220 the unfortunate reality was and uh so that's why when you have me on man i love telling this story

00:46:25.500 i've told it on my podcast but it's not it doesn't really have the reach right so uh yeah this is this

00:46:30.540 is great i really appreciate coming on the show and sharing it man thank you for thank you for being

00:46:35.900 here thank you for telling that story uh i i hope that a movie does get made out of it or some variation

00:46:41.340 if something gets made out of this just because there's it's such a it's such an awesome story of

00:46:47.020 perseverance and figuring it out and grassroots and boots on the ground and i just i just love it

00:46:52.300 man thank you so much for being here thank you so much for telling that your story um where can

00:46:57.100 people find you you know what i mean to learn more about you or what you're doing please please share

00:47:00.860 as we kind of wrap this up here well first of all i just want to say if anybody's going to play

00:47:05.660 me in a movie i want to be gerard rutler just throwing that out there gerard buddy okay give me

00:47:11.020 a call uh where can people uh reach out to me um well if you go to hardtokill.org that's where you

00:47:18.620 can find the podcast a hard to kill podcast if you're interested in joining our fitness community

00:47:24.940 based on uh rebuilding the warrior after a long career that's uh that's there as well it's veterans

00:47:31.100 getting fit af and i've also got my sub stack as well it's all at hardtokill.org so you can read

00:47:37.340 stuff you can listen to stuff and you can do stuff that's the point of this uh this whole endeavor and

00:47:42.860 uh feel free to reach out to me and ask any questions you want man this my uh it's what i do now i love

00:47:47.820 doing it i love it again man thank you for being here folks please reach out uh send them a note send

00:47:54.860 them anything send them a question just uh try to get involved whatever level you can and uh thanks

00:47:59.740 again dude this has been real fun it's a pleasure it's a pleasure to listen to that story i'll probably

00:48:03.980 this is awesome man i'm glad i got to pop your your podcast cherry man this is a good conversation man

00:48:08.860 you're gonna have a good career this is good this is a good flow i love it yes sir thank you it's been real

Canadian Armed Forces Veteran Rescues Afghan Interpreter

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript